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Our socialist, ideological rulers call coal fans socialist ideologues

Former PM Tony Abbott and a team of conservative pollies suggested the government should forcibly acquire the old coal plant Liddell to keep it running and save our grid.

Our current PM called this idea “socialist”:

This drew immediate criticism from Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, who accused Mr Abbott of suggesting that the Coalition adopt socialists policies of nationalising the means of production.

Our energy Minister, Josh Frydenberg, suddenly remembered how conservative governments support free markets:

The Energy Minister ….[said] there will be no ­subsidies for coal-fired power plants under a Turnbull government and [claims]that right-wing ideology has no place in the energy debate.

Who’re the socialists here?

Turnbull and Frydenberg are the same team who preside over a system which takes billions from some electricity generators to reward others and is intended to drive the former out of business. They bought the giant Snowy Hydro generator for $6b, and are planning to spend $4.5b to build a hydro storage “battery” that is only needed in order to stop their pick-the-winner favourite new generators from destroying the grid or the household budget, whichever comes first.

Apparently nationalizing a hydro generator is not “socialist” but nationalizing a coal one is. Find me a dictionary that can defend that one and I’ll show you a politically correct chock for the boat trailer.

The ideological people in this debate are the ones that are destroying coal businesses to change the weather.

What Abbott and co are suggesting is the only pragmatic option left in a semi-socialist and screwed electrical network. The government shouldn’t be buying coal plants, but when the government destroys the free market, grid efficiency and reliability —  buying an old coal plant is the only sane icing left on this cake.

Obviously the free market answer is to get the heck out of messing up our grid in order to hold back the tide. Which is exactly what Tony Abbott has been trying to do for years. Abbott tried to shut the Renewable Energy Target, close the GONGOs and QUANGOs and get the government out of meddling and futile weather-controlling policies.  Since the socialists wouldn’t let him, the only bandaid solution left is to buy up the parts the government hath baked and broke.

Where were Frydenberg and Turnbull’s cheers for the “free market” when Abbott was trying to recreate one?

9.5 out of 10 based on 106 ratings

184 comments to Our socialist, ideological rulers call coal fans socialist ideologues

  • #
    robert rosicka

    I hate hypocrites and Turncoat and Co are the biggest .

    700

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    • #
      mareeS

      Compulsorily subsidising crap windmills and then lying about it, when our valley is richest and best at electricity generation, no wonder we disrespect these liars.

      640

      • #
        Dennis

        Even worse when family and associates are investors in the businesses.

        310

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        • #
          Bobl

          Do you still want analysis.
          They say, 1/4 of 7.3 million houses have 5kW solar and credit 23TWh for that so going with that, their model assumes 23e9 / (7.3e6/4)/365 = 34.5kWh per day (average) from a 5KW system implying that system operates for an average 7 hours a day at 100% of nameplate… heroic. As anyone with a 5kw system will attest 25kWh is about the limit on a good day. Of course there is no allowance for cloudy days/weeks/months or for reliability factors. Of course they don’t seem to factor in the self consumed demand. IE. They assume that the demand seen by the NEM is the actual demand and all the rooftop pv is available when in actual fact you have to add the offset consumption to the NEM demand to get actual demand. Put another way only exported watts are available to meet NEM demand.

          There is no allowance for the cost of their 100 million Ha of land or development/maintenance costs (rates/land tax) of that land, access infrastructure etc.

          Low quality model I’d say, multiply their already stupendous LCOE of 70c US ( AU$0.87 ) by at least 3 Us$210 per MWh ( a wholesale price of AU$2.65 per kWh or a retail of maybe $5 per kWh for their scenario. Methinks a diesel genset in the basement at 30c per kWh is a much better proposition. Even if they were right , an LCOE of 87c implies a wholesale price of at least 1.15 and retail price of $1.30 per kWh . Substitution by diesel will economically bankrupt the utilities if they tried this utterly stupid idea.

          10

      • #
        clivehoskin

        When lived in Jamieson Victoria in the early 60’s,the farm a mates parents owned didn’t have electricity(too far away from supply)they used a Lister diesel for power to the milking shed and farm house.They also had windmills to pump up water to the house and water the cows.Many times I recall having to load the Lister onto the back of the”Fergy”and take it down to the dam to pump water to the stock and house,because the WINDMILL wasn’t working(no wind or Frozen up in winter)As soon as”Electricity”became available,said windmills got the boot.The “Neanderthals”(the Leftards) call them new technology?Really?

        80

    • #
      ColA

      You’ll be glad to know Labor is not hypocritical, Shadow Energy Minister Mark Butler clear said on their Aunty this morning that they will change the NEG from 26 to 45% carbon emissions when they get elected next year!! (yes I said when because Trunbum has bucklys of getting re-elected!)

      Jo for PM??

      210

    • #
      glen Michel

      When I read the article I spluttered my Weihenstephaner weissbier over the newspaper.This oleaginous couple of Turnbull and Frydenberg are really p**sing me off. Out with these ersatz mugs.

      180

  • #
    PeterS

    Yes it’s both ironic and sickening how things are playing out. Our government has been promoting massive incentives for renewables. We all know that is fact. Lately the government also has stated it will not promote any additional incentives because it will distort the market. HELLO – TOO LATE!! That’s already been done under Turnbull’s watch; and he must know it. I’m still wondering if our elected MP’s on both sides are fools or enemies of the nation who are deliberately planning its economic and social destruction. Nowhere else in the world are politicians that stupid. Hundreds of coal fired power stations are being built everywhere, even in Germany (Unit 4 expansion of Datteln to over 1 GW).

    470

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Add Spain, Italy, Poland, Greece, Hungary and (possibly) Finland in the EU.

      The lunatic policy in Scotland and England is almost due to collapse and add more fossil fuel generation (unless they want to freeze in coming winters).
      And France wants to eliminate a third of their nuclear generation and replace it with wind????? That means they will need more (fossil fueled) backup.

      480

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Yes and when i point such things out in a rather blunt manner on the “the conversation” , my posts get deleted apparently falling foul of the posting rules… I have to shrug my shoulders and just keep plugging on….

        Truth seems to be unpalatable in leftist echo chambers it seems…

        460

        • #
          Leonard Lane

          OriginalSteve that is a good point. Truth is always unpalatable in a leftist echo chamber. From Lenin to Stalin, to Pol Pot and to a lesser degree in modern socialist governments pushing renewable energy, the lives of the poor and defenseless are always cheap and the redistribution of wealth seems to be from the poor to the ruling elites and their cronies.

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          glen Michel

          A site for poor,sub-standard science OS-to be sure.I gave up trying to present any rebuff to the usually naive and often,rude commenters.They’ve taken the bat and ball and gone home.

          100

        • #
          Johnincq

          In the Australian msm,one will never see an article along these lines.
          https://www.platts.com/latest-news/coal/london/analysis-german-4-gw-new-coal-plants-in-testing-26170384

          Turnbull has wedged himself between a rock and a hard place.He wont relent to dropping taxpayer renewable subsidies and risk be tagged a climate denier.

          150

          • #
            Terry

            risk be tagged a climate denier.

            What else would one be called if they falsely believed they could directly control the earth’s climate by rationing a trace gas.

            Behold! We have sacrificed virgins to the volcano gods lest we be tagged… “agriculture deniers”!

            Strangely, the crops do not seem to have appreciated “our” (eh, their) sacrifice.

            Seems ‘Mother Nature’ is an ingrate.

            90

        • #
          Clint

          Yes and when i point such things out in a rather blunt manner on the “the conversation” , my posts get deleted…

          “Life, but not as we know it…” Boldly going where no one has gone before”. … immediately springs to mind.

          It remains ever apparent that those of the Left unfailing state precisely the opposite of what they do. Pecksniffian hypocrisy and confirmation bias along with utter faith in the transcendent capacities of their lattes, homeopathy, crystal pendants, climatism and the Gaia hypothesis. Such is the post-modern, post-truth, post-science bedrock of their indisputable ersatz-reality. Little wonder they erase your posts OriginalSteve or lust after the abolition of free speech.

          “The Conversation,” better known and referred to as “The Con” is one of the ideological apices of the institutionalised Left. Hardly a ‘conversation’ it appears as pure ideological monologue and dare I suggest, possibly not the wisest use of one’s valuable time.

          These latte loving Lefties were once the counter-culture of the seventies. Now they’ve become staid, conservative Leftist mainstream orthodoxy in lust with fascism. We are in the process of owning them because we now own the counter-culture. So the wheel turns once again, and they hate, no, they loathe that fact.

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        • #
          MudCrab

          I feel there is very compelling evidence that Lefties are simply incapable of understanding an opposing viewpoint.

          There is an article on Rita Panahi’s blog that links to some studies.

          http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/rita-panahi/haidt-and-the-conservative-advantage/news-story/da717bd3de5ededfecded0c24b025232

          Basic summary is that some researchers sampled some people to ask them questions where they were asked to give the answer they believed someone from the other side of the political fence would give. The results showed that most Conservatives could guess what a Leftie would think, but not the other way around.

          My take has been that a Leftie feels they always know best and that things would be better if they, or at least people who also ‘know best’ were in charge. A conservative, despite what Lefties believe, does not want to be in charge and instead would much prefer for people to stop telling them what to do and just let them get on with their own lives. A Conservative wants what is best for them and their immediate social circle while a Leftie wants what is best for EVERYONE (cause they know best).

          Because a Conservative doesn’t believe they know best they are willing to hear out and, if need be, adopt other ideas. A Leftie on the other hand can’t hear other ideas as they might suggest that they don’t actually know best and, by extension, everything else they have done in their lives has been pointless. There is no way that they can be wrong, therefore you must be. It is not JUST a different point of view, it is WRONG.

          They don’t want to discuss or debate. They KNOW they are correct therefore everything you say that remotely disagrees with them is WRONG.

          And so they delete your argument, and, because you are clearly wrong, see absolutely nothing unethical with this sort of action. This is also part of the reason why Lefties often seem completely confused that people even have different opinions as they simply can’t accept anyone being wrong about something that is crystal clear and indisputable to them.

          In short terms, a Conservative with listen to your argument and then decide if they support your conclusion.

          A Leftie will listen to your conclusion and decide if you are one of them or wrong. Analysis the argument doesn’t enter into it.

          On the plus side, this inability to accept opinions other than their own (cause they know best) is why Leftie groups usually implode into bitter infighting the moment they start to get successful. Unfortunately it is those moment before the infighting starts where they can do a lot of damage.

          161

          • #
            Don A

            Please MC, can I have permission to repeat your post in other areas?

            50

            • #
              The Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

              My apologies, MudCrab. I did NOT ask permission. I sent a link to Anthony, and even commented below (#43, I think?).

              I regret my actions; please accept my apologies.

              Vlad

              40

          • #
            sophocles

            Very interesting Mudcrab. It’s certainly provocative, giving much to consider. It seems to be shades of:

            I used to be conceited but now I’m perfect.

            for some people.

            Your statement “that Lefties are simply incapable of understanding …” seemed a little extreme to me and I would be inclined to modify it to “many Lefties …” rather than the implicit all Lefties. My initial reaction was to argue (as I am) that it is not as extreme as you contend; but you’ll notice I’m not trying to falsify the proposal, either. It could certainly cover a majority but I can’t see that it applies to all.

            Back in 2003, I thoroughly believed the Warming meme but, in the face of some extreme statements and memory of the 1970s cooling (actual, not legend), and after reading a statement attributed to Susan Solomon about how “the models can’t do clouds,” I decided to research the research. My present point of view is the opposite of what I held then and it’s taken a lot of real papers and some books, to reach my present point of view. It’s still regularly modified in detail and is different now from that I held even only four years ago.

            So some liberals and lefties can and do change their ideas.

            I’m working through the Thomas Paine/Edmund Burke controversies over the French Revolution and human rights which will keep me occupied for quite a while. I’ll bear this in mind.

            Thank you for the provocation.

            10

  • #
    TdeF

    As noted, Liddell was given away by the NSW government for $0. Now the government has to buy it back. Hardly socialism!

    The new owners have been very clear that it is more valuable destroyed than working, which does not suggest they want lower electricity prices. Try 6 seconds into this current AGL advertisment. See if you can discern their subtle intention.

    Where governments should intervene is where capitalists are gaming the system and even the ACCC says that AGL are profiteering. So where is the socialism? Governments are supposed to be against profiteering.

    However repeal the Renewable Energy(Electricity) Act 2000 and the market would return to normal overnight. The cheapest, more reliable and abundant energy would win. Coal. The very idea that wind is free is absurd. Coal is free.

    Turnbull must go. Now.

    550

    • #
      TdeF

      You have to love Delingpole’s clarity “there is nothing that makes liberals bigger in their underpants than using free market philosophy as a stick with which to beat their right-wing enemies.”

      So progressive liberal rich banker Malcolm calls his opponents ‘Socialists’. So does Frydenberg. Frydenberg is not allowed disagree.
      Not with Malcolm. The last PM is on the back bench.

      The real question is whether the Liberal party owes him the $1.75Million he gave the party to rescue it from his own disastrous takeover and the wipeout of financial support. Or was it a gift?

      So does Malcolm Turnbull now own Turnbull’s Liberals? (Trademark) Is that why he is still in the job? They cannot fire the owner?

      Is that why Michael Kroger is desperate to get the cash from the McCormack trust? To buy back the Liberal party?

      390

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        No, they can’t dump Turnbull for 2 reasons. Firstly the Black Hand would be discreditted and lose influence. Secondly MT would resign and leave them with a by-election they would be unlikely to win, hence loss of money and position.

        240

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Yes….control is required of the PM at all times. Even if the hand up the sock puppet changes, the script never does…

          170

        • #
          gnome

          The likelihood that the Liberals would lose Wentworth is just a little bit less than zero.

          Turnbull might, but any other candidate…

          60

          • #
            Greebo

            Yes, it is a bit too Blue Ribbon to imagine a loss. Heck, Peter King could run again.

            40

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            Graeme No.3

            Well, the 2 biggest swings in his favour where when some bloke called Abbott was leader of the opposition. Since then as PM he’s had the biggest percentage change in the 2 party vote, but is surviving nicely on the Abbott boost.

            20

  • #
    Environment Skeptic

    Paid actors

    60

    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      Or.. ‘extorted actors’. Actors have families they love too. Hard to pinpoint blame in a world where very much is hidden/obfuscated.

      60

  • #
    pat

    glad to say I’ve never heard of him. more stupid than funny:

    11 Apr: Guardian: Cartoon: What is it about coal that makes old white men so crazy?
    by First Dog on the Moon
    (Andrew Marlton is a Walkley Award-winning Australian cartoonist, best known for his work under the pseudonym, First Dog on the Moon. Marlton has worked as a regular political cartoonist for Crikey from 2007 and Guardian Australia from 2014 – Wikipedia)
    The angry clownbabies of the Monash Forum abandon their furiously held beliefs the nanosecond it suits, and their suits are empty…
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/11/what-is-it-about-coal-that-makes-old-white-men-so-crazy

    40

  • #
    pat

    11 Apr: HellenicShippingNews: Global seaborne thermal coal demand to hit 963 mil mt in 2018 driven by Asia: panel
    The global seaborne thermal coal market is expected to grow by around 48 million mt from 2017 to touch 963 million mt in 2018, according to trading house Noble Group at the Coaltrans China conference in Beijing Tuesday.
    The demand is going to be mainly powered by a coal-hungry Asia led by China, India and the rest of eastern hemisphere countries accounting for an increase of 16 million mt, 11 million mt and 14 million mt respectively.
    “Thermal power generation in China is up by 8.6% compared to the overall increase in power generation of 7.35%…

    While hydro power generation can be expected to improve, China is likely to import more low CV coal from Indonesia,” Rodrigo Echeverri, head of hard commodities analysis at Noble Resources International, said at the Coaltrans China conference in Beijing…

    The Chinese demand is expected to stem from the closure of antiquated production processes.
    “There is support due to elimination of supply capacity after about 500 million mt of outdated capacity has been [shut] since 2016,” said Tian Hui, vice-president of China National Coal Association.
    “It is difficult to say if Chinese coal demand has peaked as yet,” said Kevin Tu, China program manager at International Energy Agency.

    There were other contrasting views which emphasized on seaborne volumes remaining flat on diminishing imports into China and India.
    “Larger miners [in China] are becoming larger as they have better sales and logistics networks, while the inefficient ones are being closed down. ***But the total production is not dropping,” said Michelle Leung, Asia basic materials & coal analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence.

    “Coal India will likely show growth in production year-on-year but is likely to lag their targets,” said Echeverri…
    “Energy safety is still very important for each country and coal is not likely to be replaceable [fully],” said Hui…
    https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/global-seaborne-thermal-coal-demand-to-hit-963-mil-mt-in-2018-driven-by-asia-panel/

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  • #
    OriginalSteve

    I think its clever how the debate has been engineered to be about coal…not about power…its a clever hijacking of the debate.

    Its a distraction.

    What we need to do ( with good falconry gauntlets on coz they are feral and bite ) is put a heavy hand on the neck of the Left and hold its face down in logical debate and force it to say ” uncle” and acknowledge it has distorted the duscussion and not let it up until it concedes, no matter how long it takes…

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    • #
      Just Thinkin'

      And, your suggestion on how to do this is?

      70

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Just keep telling the truth…people work it out eventually…..

        Might need a 2nd Amendment in the mean time though….the Left are feral and need constant supervision….

        50

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘And, your suggestion on how to do this is?’

        In the political sphere this is the best way forward, people will listen.

        “AGL is an Australian company with an American head but there is no way on God’s earth we should allow the AGL boss, who wants to maximise his bonuses, who wants to maximise the prices he gets, there is no way we should allow this to jeopardise our national interest,” Mr Abbott said.

        Canberra Times

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        • #
          clivehoskin

          In case anyone doesn’t know it,AGL wants Liddell blown up so that they can introduce more GAS fired generating because they are a GAS PRODUCER.

          10

  • #
    pat

    10 Apr: Manila Bulletin: Coal share in power generation inches closer to 50% nationwide
    By Myrna M. Velasco
    Coal-fired power plants have been reinforcing their foothold in the country’s generation mix with a share inching up to 49.6-percent as of end last year, based on data culled from the Department of Energy.
    These facilities’ share in electricity generation nationwide effectively dwarfed the share of natural gas at 21.8-percent; and that of renewables at 24.6-percent combined for conventional and the emerging technologies…

    On the RE resources, conventional technologies like geothermal and hydro still cornered the lion’s share at 10.9-percent and 10.2-percent, respectively; while the fraction of biomass, solar and wind remained fledgling at 1.5-percent; 1.3-percent and 0.7-percent…

    It could also be gleaned that coal plants’ installed capacity had gone up by 630 megawatts last year to 8,049 megawatts (MW) from 7, 419MW in 2016.
    For renewable energy, capacity addition was relatively lean in 2017 at just 121MW to 7,079MW from 6,958MW in 2016, with the capacity shoring up mainly coming from hydro and the non-conventional RE technologies…
    Overall, the country’s installed power capacity on nationwide basis had expanded by 1,305 megawatts last year to 22,728MW from the 2016 level of 21,423 megawatts…
    https://business.mb.com.ph/2018/04/10/coal-share-in-power-generation-inches-closer-to-50-nationwide/

    60

  • #
    pat

    11 Apr: Reuters: Thai energy companies roll out expansions across Southeast Asia
    by Chayut Setboonsarng, Henning Gloystein
    The 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) together have a population of more than 600 million people, with a collective gross domestic product (GDP) of nearly $3 trillion, according to research company Statista.
    ASEAN’s energy use rose by 60 percent in the last 15 years, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA), which also says the region’s demand could grow another two-thirds by 2040.
    Companies aiming to take part in the growth in ASEAN and beyond include B.Grimm Power, a Thai power developer that already has assets in Vietnam and Laos, and Banpu Power, which is building a coal-fired plant in China…

    Even in coal, a sector recently shunned due to public pressure to invest in cleaner energy, Thai firms are growing. Miner Banpu in February reported a more than 250 percent surge in annual profit, partly because of new coal mine investments, including in Indonesia, and power projects in China and Japan…
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-energy-companies-analysis/thai-energy-companies-roll-out-expansions-across-southeast-asia-idUSKBN1HI125

    behind paywall:

    Terry McCrann: Josh Frydenberg makes the case for coal
    Herald Sun-1 hour ago
    Trying to project how we were changing away from coal, Frydenberg noted that in 2000 more than 90 per cent of our power came from fossil fuels (coal and gas). Back then there were just three wind farms. Since then billions have been poured into (mostly) wind. In the past five years over 90 per cent of energy investment

    Liddell power station closure to push power bills up by $500 a year
    Daily Telegraph-22 hours ago
    NSW consumers will be slugged an extra $500 a year for power when energy giant AGL shuts its coal-fired Liddell power station, modelling has shown. … spokesman said: “The intention of giving seven years’ notice of the closure of Liddell was to avoid the impacts on price seen with the sudden closure of other coal plants.

    120

    • #
      TdeF

      The ‘modelling’ showed that Victorian electricity prices would go up 20% when Hazelwood closed. The actual result? Closer to 100%. Even Frydenberg says ripping off people’s electricity bills only costs $60 a year. Even per person, that is $1.4Billion. Who is he kidding? The total ‘subsidy’ is over $6Billion and 10% of disposable income for most Australian families. All because Malcolm Turnbull and his Green friends have a coal fetish.

      290

      • #
        Another Ian

        TdeF

        Remember the German greens prediction that “renewable electricity” would only cost “a scoop of icecream” a year?

        Turned out to be a bloody big scoop

        170

      • #
        John in Oz

        These modelling claims are similar to Tom and Jerry’s Jay’s oft-stated ‘will put downward pressure on power prices’, this trumpeted with every band-aid they applied to the SA power system.

        Unfortunately, we are yet to see any downward movement in power prices, although Labor will no doubt claim that under a Liberal Government the prices would be higher, therefore they have kept the prices lower.

        90

        • #
          TdeF

          Exactly. AGL’s Vestey says the same thing. The only thing lacking is any credibility.

          100

          • #
            Leo G

            Andy Vesey was one of AES’s boys from Brazil (a utilities operating manager in a number of Latin American countries where Marxist-oriented AES operates). He is on a mission in Australia.

            90

      • #
        Terry

        For how long will dullards like Frydenberg be excused just because there are even crazier “contributions” from the Greens, ALP and “moderate” Liberals?

        It’s time for pitchforks and treason trials in this country.

        130

        • #
          clivehoskin

          And don’t forget the”Tar and Feathers”Oh and”Piano Wire”(very effective when the Mafia used it)

          10

  • #
    pat

    11 Apr: Bloomberg: Joe Ryan: Coal Dead? Peak Oil Demand? Five Takes on Fossil Fuels’ Future
    (With assistance by Naureen S Malik, Tim Loh, Jim Efstathiou Jr, and Jim Polson)
    For all the buzz around wind, solar and electric cars, energy company executives had plenty to say Tuesday about the continuing role of fossil fuels and nuclear power at the Bloomberg New Energy Finance Future of Energy Summit.

    Mining mogul Bob Murray offered a passionate defense of coal, asserting that we’d all “die in the dark” without it. Ethan Zindler, a Bloomberg New Energy Finance analyst, supplied the counter argument, saying U.S. coal-plant economics simply don’t work anymore.
    Here’s what executives from BP Plc to Tellurian Inc. said about the future of fossil fuels in a world pushing to fight climate change…

    BP Chief Financial Officer Brian Gilvary sees oil and gas playing key roles — even as most nations strive to cut greenhouse gases that cause global warming. “A lot of people think that what was agreed to in Paris was all about a race to renewables,” Gilvary said. “Actually it was a race to reduce emissions.” Therefore lots of different types of energy will fit into the mix, Gilvary said. Oil demand will remain strong to around 2040 and plateau rather than peak, Gilvary said. “We will continue to pursue world projects. But we will do that in a way to make sure we start to reduce emissions in our own business.”…

    Zindler, BNEF’s head of Americas, said about half of all U.S. coal plants lose money on any given day as cheap gas, along with wind and solar farms, push electricity prices lower. Meanwhile, demand for power is flat. The result, Zindler said, is coal plants wrestle to outlast one another, fighting for a bigger piece of the pie. “Every day across multiple regional transmission operating systems, we see power plants staring across at each other and saying ‘Who is going to go first?’ ” Zindler said. “It’s only a matter of time as these plants try to outlast each other.”…

    While Murray Energy Corp. Chief Executive Officer Bob Murray expects U.S. thermal coal production to keep falling in coming years, he’s optimistic it will stabilize around 650 million tons a year (down from more than 1 billion tons a decade ago). But that depends on America’s utilities supporting coal, Murray said. “You must have a reliable, resilient power grid, and there’s only two types of base-load generation — nuclear and coal,” he said. Even without support from utilities, Murray has another plan. He wants to buy and operate coal-fired power plants. “If you can dig coal out of the ground, you sure as heck can run a power plant,” he said in an interview. “We can run power plants better than the utilities can.”…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-10/coal-dead-peak-oil-demand-five-takes-on-fossil-fuels-future

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    • #

      “BP Chief Financial Officer Brian Gilvary sees oil and gas playing key roles.” Well, with oil now in the mid 60s (something about a war somewhere?) Brian and his old china plates will really need some good accountants and PR people. Actually, just skip the accountants and go with more PR. In mid-2008 the stuff peaked at well over $132. The problem was easily solved by have a global financial crisis, but that didn’t stop three years of $100 plus between 2011 and 2014, before the fracking got cracking.

      Brian, guarantee us a price of $60 for the next thirty years and we’ll get back to you about “key roles” and the rest of the management-speak. By the way, Brian. We get all our coal right here in Australia. In what part of Australia do you get your oil?

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  • #
    Tom O

    So the question is how does a “free people” with open and honest elections manage to become slaves to a government that doesn’t listen to its voters at all? Exactly WHO OWNS the government that dictates to it how it will treat the people that vote for or against it? And if you can’t find people to represent your views, who do you vote for? Einstein said to do the same thing over and over and expect a change was insanity. Isn’t it time to form a citizen’s party and do something different like vote the scoundrels out of office instead of re-electing them, expecting them to somehow do something differently? Putting 1000 new people into positions that they know nothing about cannot be worse then putting the same 1000 people back into those positions that continue to work against you. Of course, that would only be a temporary fix because for some reason, it seems humans sell their souls and morals at a very low price, and before you can breath easily, corruption will creep into your new party, so ever vigilant will have to be the motto. And yes, that’s a hulluva lot easier said than done, but if you want an actual future with a little freedom in it….

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    • #
      Lionell Griffith

      This is why putting better people in government never works until you get better ideas in the people. People follow the ideas they have. As long as the ideas are the same, the results will be the same. It can’t be any other way.

      For well over 100 years we have been expecting more government to be the solution. Yet, nothing gets really solved. The best that has happened is the problem has gotten kicked down the road just a little bit further. Just long enough that it becomes a much bigger problem that is really difficult to solve. So much for “do something, anything but get it done.”

      Work on the ideas. Get them right. The better people will follow. Soon the consequences will be better too.

      Sadly, getting the ideas right is the really hard part while getting them wrong is shockingly easy. That is except for the consequences. The consequences automatically follow from the actions taken based upon the ideas. Though they are not necessarily what you want, wish, or expect them to be.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Australians live every day by systems that can be called socialist, free public health system, public education, unemployment assistance, public housing, and because these systems are offered to people living in our nation does this make it national socialism?
      Of course not as the people that benefit from all this still have the constitutional right to vote those that are trusted to run these systems in or out at mandated elections, the biggest problem Australians have facing them now is what happens when real socialism creeps into their political system and it erodes the power of that vote that was once rightfully theirs to use?
      The only reason our public safety nets worked was the large amount of private enterprise and net worth this country had to fund it, if you reduce the ability to service a loan the books will go deep into the red eventually.

      150

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘…what happens when real socialism creeps into their political system and it erodes the power of that vote that was once rightfully theirs to use?’

        The Venezuela model is there for all to see.

        We live in a mixed economy, public monies and free enterprise go hand in hand. How the government spends the money is what the debate is all about.

        Cutting back on the Defence budget would be a good start and then they could unashamedly throw the savings at state of the art coal fired power stations.

        31

    • #
      The Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

      Greetings to you and yours, Tom O:

      This may not answer your question (which is somewhat rhetorical in nature, I believe), but if you’ve never heard of the quote widely attributed to Alexander Tyler, it is this:

      “A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”

      “The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

      From Bondage to spiritual faith;
      From spiritual faith to great courage;
      From courage to liberty;
      From liberty to abundance;
      From abundance to complacency;
      From complacency to apathy;
      From apathy to dependence;
      From dependence back into bondage.”

      The key there is that the populace discovers that it can raid the public treasury to it’s own benefit, without regard to what might happen in the future. I cannot directly address the situation in Australia, but over here on the wrong side of the Big Pond, we have something in the neighborhood of 48 – 49% of the population dependent on government largess, not to mention a much-to-large segment of the population in the direct employ of Federal, State, and Local governmental agencies. I’ve heard as much as 10% of the employed population are governmental employees. That leaves us with some 40% of the populace “pulling the wagon”, and perhaps 60% “riding the wagon”. Since that 60% can always out-vote the other 40%, there’s not much hope of pulling out of the death spiral that Tyler describes.

      True story: the radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh described the victory of Obummer against Romney as a situation where you cannot “fight Santa Claus”. He played a sound bite from some residents of Detroit, who were getting their “free” Obama-phones. The interviewer asked one of the residents why they were there. She responded, ‘ … to get my free phone’. The interviewer asked, ‘how is Obama paying for this?’, to which the lady replied, ‘ … from his stash!’

      Equally illustrative is the 2016 Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders. If you’ve never heard one of his campaign speeches, you should listen; he kept promising his supporters, “free” this, and “free” that, and “free” the other thing. He would say, “Education — FREE! Health care —FREE! Housing — FREE! Yes, on Planet Sanders, the government would provide absolutely everything for everyone at no cost or other obligation on the part of the citizen.

      Tyler wrote this in the late 18th Century. He was a visionary.

      Regards to you and yours,

      Vlad

      300

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        From memory, welfare in Australia is the govts biggest expenditure.

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        • #
          clivehoskin

          So, the answer would be to get rid of these”Parasites”who are on welfare,would it not?How about we start with banning the burqa,or no more halal,or no more schools for sand monkeys,or maybe no mosques?That would probably halve or welfare bill in an instant.

          60

    • #
      Ceetee

      Tom O democracy is just a chain where some of the links make it their business to fail. The left hates democracy. Join the dots.

      50

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Government run facilities of any kind, especially something you depend on as heavily as the modern world depends on electricity are an invitation to abuse that no politician seems able to resist. It’s worse wen those elected to govern us have a budget for a large staff because the unelected staff is really running the show. So if you put someone else in office that same staff, or most of it, sticks around and keeps running the show.

    We should have believed the parting words of 2 presidents, Washington and Eisenhower. Never form parties and never let the needs of government contractors and staff run the show.

    That was good advice no matter who you are, Australia, America, New Zealand, UK, or any other place on Earth.

    200

  • #

    If a road gets blown up or washed away or falls apart through neglect…you fix the road. You don’t turn the repairs into a more-market-oriented-than-thou competition. You fix the road. You don’t flash your copy of Adam Smith and say we need to wait for the invisible hand to fix the road. You just fix the road. You don’t say roads are so last century. You fix the road.

    Of course, the general idea is to maintain the road and upgrade it constantly, preferably keeping it free of light rails, cycleways to nowhere and Tesla filling stations where the coffee and spongy burgers move much faster than the car juice. Now Labor and even the Libs have trashed our most critical infrastructure: the electricity. Now the likes of Turnbull and Frydenberg are handing out contracts for white elephants to make the problems worse. They are entrenching failure.

    Hell, the crony capitalists will even get rich fixing the problem in the end. It’s just that right now the smart money is following the green fairy floss. I mean, in a time of broken windows it’s good to be a glazier with friends. Just like in a time of incandescent bans it’s good to be GE. Malcolm knows.

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    • #
      clivehoskin

      Reminds me of the new train to Tullamarine airport that Turdbull is talking about.9 billion dollars is the starting price.I wonder just where is this money coming from?Unfortunately,it’s only about 40 years TOO LATE!!!!

      40

  • #
    Ruairi

    Charging too much for power is theft,
    Which the public must pay for and heft,
    Because warmists get rid,
    Of coal plants for the grid,
    With the aid of the socialist Left.

    270

    • #
      dinn, rob

      Taking more power than a Roo I think their ass
      be screwed backward or two, but what’s
      that to a Roo–wild beyond wild

      In politics you can burn all the hay
      before the day is even born, o you’ll rue—
      wild beyond wild, not even true

      Watch your step, little roo, life
      has something up a long old sleeve—
      never knew what it was, wild they say

      30

  • #
    pattoh

    Considering that both Malcolm & Alex are both ex Goldman Sachs; it may be time for a refresher on the GS involvement in the Carbon Market.

    A quick Google is very revealing.

    Further, it is not a big leap to go behind it back to the whole Gro Bruntland-“Sustainable Development”/Maurice Strong/TC/Bilderberg ambit.

    Democracy in name only.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Democracy is alive and well here in Australia. The real problem is there are too many voters who don’t understand or have the skills to understand about what they are doing when they place their vote. To be honest most do not realise their right to vote should NOT to be taken as a joke but in fact IS one of the most important decisions they will ever make in their lives. Yet they treat that right more as a nuisance. Stupid is as stupid does. So, don’t blame the politicians; the buck stops with the voters.

      110

      • #
        pattoh

        How many of those voters don’t like Tony because of his “Big Ears”& Budgie Smugglers?

        Who lets the publicly owned media & the commercial MSM keep the propagandist agenda to the fore?

        Who makes memes “trending” on your Orwellian fondle slab ?

        Every day I come here, I thank Jo for being a source of reason, reality & enlightenment.

        140

      • #
        Dennis

        Yes, but with more than a little subtle spin doctoring directed at the gullible and most often apathetic voters.

        40

        • #
          PeterS

          Granted the mostly gullibility voters are fed BS and treated like mushrooms. It’s a pity we don’t use our brains collectively to come up with an election result that is to the benefit of the nation as distinct from promoting a wide variety of contradictory and often destructive agendas. As Socrates and Plato explained, Democracy is in fact it’s own enemy thanks to the people not taking it seriously and instead prefer to act on self-interested impulse.

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Democracy is alive and well here in Australia.’

        Our democracy is sick and its not the people’s fault, blame the ABC for disinformation and blatant propaganda. Its an informed democracy and not just an opinionated one which is the measure of its health.

        When the ABC eventually allows civil heretics a voice, there will be a debate and the world turned upside down as politicians reconsider their preconceived notions.

        51

  • #
    Robber

    Josh is at it again in The Australian today.
    “This is the National Energy Guarantee which, in the words of the independent Energy Security Board, represents “a clear investment signal so the cleanest, cheapest and most reliable generation gets built”. But he still has the socialist goal of cutting carbon first.
    “… driving long-term investment in the right technologies at the right place at the right time, the outcome of which is a 23 per cent reduction in the wholesale price of electricity.”
    Facts, Josh, give us the FACTS. In Vic two years ago the wholesale electricity price in the NEM per AEMO facts was $46/MWhr, this year it’s averaging $96/MWhr.

    You say about your policy: “the outcome of which is a 23 per cent reduction in the wholesale price.” Show us the numbers. Be specific, from what to what, and when? My suggested target: $60/MWhr before the next election.

    In addition to the wholesale price, wind/solar generators also get issued with certificates by the “Clean Energy Regulator”, another government bureaucracy, that they get to sell to retailers for about $80/MWhr that is added to the retail price. Josh, what are you going to do about that “tax”? No wonder AGL wants to close Liddell. As it stands if they add some unreliable Intermittent wind/solar they get to double their revenue at our expense.

    Put ideology aside and deliver more affordable electricity NOW!

    160

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Robber:
      “This is the National Energy Guarantee which… represents “a clear investment signal so the cleanest, cheapest and most reliable generation gets built”.
      Some other ‘cheap’ government schemes; the National Broadband, Child Care, National Disability Scheme, various Gonski schemes to improve educational standards etc. (don’t mention Pink Batts or submarines).
      Snowy two was supposed to cost only $2 billion, yet it is now $4.5 billion plus $6.2 billion buying out the States, and that is before they have started digging.
      I expect the RAAF will shortly acquire a flock of little flying pigs for the PM’s flight.

      80

    • #
      PeterS

      A better energy future for Australia
      I’ve never seen so much doublespeak and newspeak; far worse than what Rudd and Gillard delivered in the past. Things have truly reached a new low.

      50

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        It’s amazing how good things will be after the next election acording to them. Meanwhile, we on THIS planet are struggling.

        40

  • #
    mem

    I wonder if energy realists crowd funded a $1.5 mill donation to the Liberal Party to pay off Malcolm’s debt/donation they might listen a bit harder?

    50

  • #
    el gordo

    Shandong Ruyi said they would be happy to buy Liddell.

    This organisation is in textiles and owns Cubby Station, but is obviously getting its orders from Beijing.

    Socialism with Chinese characteristics is better for the Australian consumers than the pseudo Marxist consortium in Canberra, but obviously many here would consider that a road too far.

    I’m for it and will take on all naysayers.

    81

    • #
      PeterS

      Be careful what you wish for as you might very well get it. The way things are going we will eventually welcome China to take over once things go pear shaped here in a truly horrific way, as they will eventually. I suppose though it would be better being ruled by China than say Indonesia. I think the lesser of all evils would be Russia but I doubt they would be interested given our remoteness compared to them.

      60

      • #
        Another Ian

        PeterS

        ” I think the lesser of all evils would be Russia but I doubt they would be interested given our remoteness compared to them.”

        Careful! the distance from Moscow might be attractive to some of the oligachs

        30

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘….once things go pear shaped here in a truly horrific way…’

        That won’t happen for the simple reason that Beijing doesn’t desire it, preferring stability and a slow takeover through investment.

        20

        • #
          PeterS

          I agree. I was referring to things going pear shaped from within. China will simply walk in to “assist” us. They are not in a hurry but we are in a hurry to self-destruct, thanks to the left in both major parties.

          50

          • #
            el gordo

            Yep, that pretty much covers the situation.

            Beijing (through their HK shelf companies) will sell us renewables until we wake up that CO2 doesn’t cause gorebull worming and then they will build our coal fired power stations.

            60

  • #
    Mark M

    Frydenberg @ national press club, 11.4.18:

    17.25: “A 3rd home truth, is that whether people like it or not, we are moving towards a carbon constrained future.”

    https://iview.abc.net.au/programs/national-press-club-address

    A swamp dwelling elitist telling a deplorable that life will get worse and to suck it up?

    No sir, I don’t like it.

    Perhaps Josh Frydenberg should spend a year living a carbon-constrained lifestyle first, and report how that goes.

    140

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Silence in the ranks and tug your forelock ( in agreement ) when the aristocracy tells you what to do.

      60

    • #
      glen Michel

      The man is a fool, but not unusual for some one with bugger all real life experience.I think it best sometime to take the lot out to the back of the woodpile.

      50

  • #
    Dennis

    ABC Rural reports that Japan is to build 45 new coal fired power stations …

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2017-01-31/japan-coal-power-plants/8224302

    80

    • #
      Mark M

      A new coal war frontier emerges as China and Japan compete for energy projects in Southeast Asia

      Frederick Kuo says Southeast Asia’s appetite for coal has spurred a new geopolitical rivalry between China and Japan as the two countries race to provide high-efficiency, low-emission technology .

      The more than 1,600 coal plants scheduled to be built by Chinese corporations in over 62 countries will make China the world’s primary provider of high-efficiency, low-emission technology. 

      http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2139667/new-coal-war-frontier-emerges-china-and-japan-compete-energy?utm_source=CCNet+Newsletter&utm_campaign=e173cecd48-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_04_03&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fe4b2f45ef-e173cecd48-36409661

      90

      • #
        PeterS

        Much of the rest of the world have been busy building and planning to build hundreds of coal fire power stations for some time now. It’s actually very old news. Similar story applies to nuclear power stations. For example, Turkey is building one with more to come. It’s sad to see how our MSM, with a few exceptions, are so silent on these facts. People think China is evil because they block so much real news from reaching their people. Our MSM is not far behind that evilness.

        60

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Meanwhile we are going to convert (evil) victorian brown coal into (clean) hydrogen and export the liquid hydrogen to Japan.
          Did I mention flocks of flying pigs?

          The cost doesn’t matter so long as you call it GREEN. I wonder where the ships for liquid hydrogen will come from. At least the names are chosen for them, Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Hindenburg.

          40

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    So many in modern society virtually live inside their televisions, computers and mobile phones and only physically interact with those of similar views.

    It is therefore not surprising that this lack of interaction with reality produces an impressive number of people who are easily manipulated and led to “believe” whatever screen “fact” they are currently exposed to.

    It’s really hard to be confident when you have no meaningful contact with the real world.

    The current “save the planet” meme is truly frightening in the sense that it clearly demonstrates that the mind entrainment techniques that led to the start of world war 11 are still effective.

    KK

    70

    • #
      PeterS

      What’s worse is when many actors come out and promote the same BS to the people, most actually believe it even more. Yet actors are only ever good at one thing – pretending to live in a fictional world. As Socrates alluded to, if we hand over the world to those who are least qualified what do you expect the result will be? If one is sick does one go to a doctor or to an actor to seek medical advice? I’m not sure why modern society is being dumbed down (and subsequently exploited). Some say it’s the chemicals in the air, water and food, conspiracy or not. Others say it starts with our educational institutions. There are many other causes proposed. Perhaps it’s all of them. Whatever the causes, one thing is for sure; we are heading downhill fast.

      60

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    11 Apr: UK Times: Emily Gosden: Four million homes face gas bill increase of £60
    British Gas is to increase energy prices for more than four million households by 5.5 per cent next month, adding £60 a year to a typical household bill…

    British Gas insisted that government policies were partly to blame for the increase, citing rising subsidies for green energy projects and the costs of installing smart meters, as well as higher wholesale gas and electricity prices.
    Mark Hodges, head of Centrica’s consumer division, insisted the price increase reflected cost pressures “beyond our control” and said it was doing all it could to cut its own costs….
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/four-million-homes-face-gas-bill-increase-of-60-xf9ljz9sv

    10 Apr: Reuters: National Grid forecasts low electricity demand in Britain this summer
    by Nina Chestney
    Britain’s National Grid said on Tuesday it expects low demand for electricity this summer as small-scale renewables output increases.
    In its summer outlook report, National Grid said peak transmission system demand for high summer (June-August) was forecast at 33.7 gigawatts (GW) and the summer minimum at 17 GW.

    “The increase in distribution connected generation, for example wind and solar PV, has contributed to this downward trend in demand,” the grid operator said in the report.
    However, increased renewables output can create challenges.

    “As a result, we may need to take more actions to curtail generation and possibly instruct inflexible generators to reduce their output in order to balance the system,” the report added.

    Total UK gas demand for this summer is forecast at 35.7 billion cubic metres, slightly lower than last summer.
    However, National Grid said its expects one of the highest volumes of maintenance on the gas transmission system to date this summer.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/national-grid-summer-outlook/national-grid-forecasts-low-electricity-demand-in-britain-this-summer-idUSL8N1RN1OE

    20

  • #
    TdeF

    The ideology nonsense continues.

    “renewables have developed faster and further than originally thought, but these technologies, pulled through with substantial taxpayer support, can now stand on their own.

    No, there is no taxpayer support. Our electricity bills have been loaded by law with payments to strangers for ideological reasons. This is not a tax, it is robbery.

    Stand on their own? For example the Hepburn Springs Windmill is now paid off. Ten years early. We the public paid for it as every cent of profit came from our pockets and a private Green group now owns a multi million dollar windmill and all its ‘free’ electricity. Can they now ‘stand on their own’ without our continuing cash for their special electricity? No. However they are looking to invest their substantial ‘profits’ in other ventures.

    Why are we still paying them cash on top of what they earn for electricity generated with a windmill for which we paid?
    Why are we paying for unusable lunchtime solar from vast numbers of home solar system for which we paid at least 50%?

    We are being robbed. It is all ideology Mr Frydenberg. Your ideology. As you explain “like it or not, we are moving towards a carbon-constrained future”. After coal, petrol? Then diesel.

    This is not science Mr Frydenberg. This is deceit. Man Made GLobal Warming is a fraud. Climate Change is a fantasy. The ripoff is real.

    150

  • #
    TdeF

    The ideology nonsense continues.

    “renewables have developed faster and further than originally thought, but these technologies, pulled through with substantial taxpayer support, can now stand on their own.

    No, there is no taxpayer support. Our electricity bills have been loaded by law with payments to strangers for ideological reasons. This is not a tax, it is robbery.

    Stand on their own? For example the Hepburn Springs Windmill is now paid off. Ten years early. We the public paid for it as every cent of profit came from our pockets and a private Green group now owns a multi million dollar windmill and all its ‘free’ electricity. Can they now ‘stand on their own’ without our continuing cash for their special electricity? No. However they are looking to invest their substantial ‘profits’ in other ventures.

    Why are we still paying them cash on top of what they earn for electricity generated with a windmill for which we paid?
    Why are we paying for unusable lunchtime solar from vast numbers of home solar system for which we paid at least 50%?

    We are being robbed. It is all ideology Mr Frydenberg. Your ideology. As you explain “like it or not, we are moving towards a carbon-constrained future”. After coal, petrol? Then diesel.

    This is not science Mr Frydenberg. This is appalling. Man Made GLobal Warming is a fr*ud. Climate Change is a fantasy. The ripoff is real.

    70

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Nicely laid out, for those who want to see just one aspect of this farce: the money!

      That private individuals can profit from the provision of basic electricity to the public is a National Disgrace.

      That this scam has been conceived of, set up and implemented by our government is appalling.

      Someone is accountable!

      KK

      90

      • #
        TdeF

        Worse, the “substantial taxpayer support” is so uncaring, so thoughtless.

        In fact people who do NOT pay tax, people who cannot afford to pay tax, people who are struggling to exist are paying Frydenberg’s subsidies. This robbery is from the poor, not the rich. People under $20K a year who pay no tax cannot afford Frydenberg’s ‘subsidies’.

        Meanwhile the rich like Turnbull and the middle classes like Frydenberg can afford massive Solar panels with cash from the poor. They can even get the poor to buy windmills for them, cash. They force the poor to pay again for the lunch time solar. The poor even keep paying handouts to businesses like Hepburn Springs Wind which are still not sustainable without pointless handouts. So many caring people.

        So Frydenberg is robbing the poor to pay the rich. Now that’s ideology. Labor and the Greens agree. Robbing Hoods all.

        140

        • #
          TdeF

          Is this about saving the planet. How does it work again?

          Shut down manufacturing, stop searching for gas, stop building dams, tax fossil fuels, blow up power stations, rob the poor, create the world’s highest electricity prices and Australia, on its own, will save the world.

          All we can see is a lot of people getting rich while impoverishing the country. Then Malcolm keeps his massive cash overseas in the Carribbean. Who wouldn’t? Talk about leading by example.

          130

          • #
            Greebo

            Shut down manufacturing, stop searching for gas, stop building dams, tax fossil fuels, blow up power stations, rob the poor, create the world’s highest electricity prices and Australia, on its own, will save the world.

            Nope. Not on it’s own. The unelected Jacinda Arden has set off boldly down this path as well. What she imagines is NZ’s contribution to GG is hard to fathom.

            130

      • #
        sophocles

        Someone is accountable

        Yes, the World Bank.

        They lend to nations for nations to do the large capital intensive projects such as National Infrastructure.
        They will not lend for any coal projects. That capital would have to be raised internally.
        They are in the driver’s seat.

        Your government may need to bite the bullet and withdraw from the World Bank and the IMF. Then your government would not have its hands tied and would be able to do what is best for your country.

        Selling off your power generators came from—c’mon: you only get ONE guess.
        If you guessed “The World Bank” take five marks and go to the top of the class,

        Three points:
        1. the World Bank is 51% owned by the US Treasury.
        2. the US covertly declared what can only be called “economic war” on the rest of the world after the “hot war” (WW2) ended.
        3. the US openly waged war “Police Actions” to “Contain Communism” around the Pacific.

        Why? There were these huge armaments factories kicking around after WWII, anxious for continued business … after the war, the rest of the world wanted to rebuild, and with the founding of the UN in all its immodest spirit of cooperation, disarmament made sense—except in America. More Money required so damned well buy buy bombers tanks and guns. The world didn’t want to do war no more. Oops. Noisy little wars were necessary to get them to rearm. Those factories need to make money! Korea and Viet Nam were the most public, the noisest but not all of them. South America got it’s share.

        America goes to war when it suits their economic interests which are their political interests.

        Your economy is being meddled with. Interfered with. Mucked around. That’s why your pollies are so gormless. They’re following orders. Sort them out by doing what you have to do and get your country back on track. You are part of the electorate with votes, so use that power.

        Refs:
        SMITH, JW (Dr); Economic Democracy. The Political Struggle of the Twenty-first Century, 2002, The Institute of Economic Democracy & The Institute for Cooperative Capitalism.
        ISBN:
        1403324093 -hardcover
        1403324095 -paperback
        1403324077 -e-book

        SMITH, JW (Dr): Why? The Deeper History Behind the September 11th Terrorist Attack on America, [2003], The Institute of Economic Democracy & The Institute for Cooperative Capitalism
        ISBN:
        0-9624423-6-4 -hardcover
        0-9624423-7-2 -pbk

        Scary reading. Then there is:
        (These cover what the so-called World Economic Forum annual meetings are all about—how much to inflate the money supply by, who wins and who loses. It’s where our Ministers of Finance get their orders from. This year’s conference was in Davos, Switzerland at the start of the year. We poked some fun and borax at the attendees. We’ll suffer their revenge later … if not already then soon.)

        HUDSON M (Dr): J is for Junk Economics: A Guide to Reality in an Age of Deception. [2017] ISLET.
        ISBN-10: 3981484258
        ISBN-13: 978-3981484250

        HUDSON M (Dr): Killing the Host: How Financial Parasites and Debt Bondage Destroy the Global Economy [2015], ISLET
        ISBN-10: 3981484282 -pbk
        ISBN-13: 978-3981484281 -pbk

        Very Scary reading …but very informative. I didn’t enjoy them at all 😉

        50

  • #
    Another Ian

    Was about something else but fits here IMO

    “Cuppa Covfefe says:
    April 11, 2018 at 9:14 pm

    The land of blunder, the land down under…

    Brennan better take a good listen to “Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Boy”…”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/04/11/access-granted-doj-gives-devin-nunes-trey-gowdy-and-hpsci-leadership-access-to-intelligence-origination-documents/#more-147987

    40

  • #
    pat

    11 Apr: Reuters: France to decide on offshore wind in coming days – lobby
    by Geert De Clercq, Benjamin Mallet, Jean-Baptiste Vey and Simon Carraud
    Last month, the French senate rejected a government proposal to renegotiate and possibly cancel projects to generate a combined 3,000 megawatts of offshore wind power on six sites on France’s west coast awarded in 2012 and 2014.
    The government is still looking at ways to reduce the cost of the projects, which have been delayed for years by local resistance and whose prices are now out of line with the market…

    France awarded tenders in 2012 for a combined offshore capacity of 2,000 MW, representing investment of about 7 billion euros, to two consortia, one led by EDF and one by Spanish utility Iberdrola.
    It was followed in 2014 by a tender for 1,000 MW, worth some 4 billion euros, won by Engie.
    Both tenders were awarded with contracts to sell power at around 200 euros per MW for 20 years.

    But since then, prices for offshore wind power have more than halved and French energy regulator CRE has criticised the high cost of the planned subsidies, which it has estimated at at total of 40.7 billion euros.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/france-windpower-offshore/france-to-decide-on-offshore-wind-in-coming-days-lobby-idUSL8N1RO4AT

    30

  • #
    TdeF

    Now the new New Zealand Labor government has banned gas exploration. This was the ‘debate’ in the Conversation in February. Journalists teaching science.

    It all hinges on one statement. “Carbon dioxide (CO₂) is a long-lived greenhouse gas. Each molecule released into the atmosphere from burning fossil fuels remains there for hundreds of years.

    This is not true. Almost all CO2 is in the vast oceans, 98% of it and in rapid exchange with the thin air above, which is how fish breathe air. At 340x the mass of the air, ours is a water planet. Half the CO2 is changed completely every 14 years. Easily proven science fact, not Green fantasy or Right Wing Ideology Mr Frydenberg.

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      Kinky Keith

      This whole business is bizarre.

      CO2 is the gas of life.

      Whether you consider the basic physics and chemistry or the quantitative aspects of the presence of human origin CO2 induced the atmosphere, there is only one outcome: CO2 cannot do anything.

      KK

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      • #
        Kinky Keith

        ? duced. ?

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        • #
          Ceetee

          KK have you seen the latest bizarre iteration from our three headed government regarding future offshore oil drilling concessions ? Its Pythonesque. Our prime minister is caste from the same mould as that ghastly Canadian fraud Trudeau. If she were a Saxon queen she’d be called Jacinda the Diabolically Idiotic.

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    pat

    AUDIO: 12 Apr: 2GB: Alan Jones Show: Government refuses to end existing renewable energy subsidies
    Finance Minister Mathias Corman tells Alan, they can’t and won’t end existing renewable subsidies.
    “There will obviously be transitional arrangements… but what we are proposing to do is wind down generating new subsidies for renewable energy from 2020.

    “Once you have attracted investment under certain conditions you can’t just change the goal posts along the way.
    “You’ve got to work your way through an appropriate transitional period to ensure that people can adjust their investment approach.”…
    https://www.2gb.com/government-refuses-to-end-existing-renewable-energy-subsidies/

    UK Times original behind paywall:

    11 Apr: PlymouthHerald: £1.8m energy firm linked to Sherford is in danger of being wound up
    Sustainable Power was hoping to put 1,500 boilers into new homes on vast Plymouth estate
    by William Telford
    An energy technology company linked to the £1billion Sherford housing development is on the brink of being wound up in what is being called one of the biggest failures for the emerging industry.
    Sustainable Power raised £1.8million via crowdfunding after designing a new kind of boiler.
    But its backers have been told the company is now facing liquidation.

    Sustainable Power is understood to have claimed a “memorandum of understanding” with Red Tree, the developer of the vast Sherford housing estate on the edge of Plymouth.
    The firm had been looking to install 1,500 boilers at the estate, bordering the South Hams.

    However, Red Tree has said no deal was struck and The Times has reported that Sustainable Power had misnamed the Plymouth development “Sherwood”.
    Crowdcube, the crowdfunding website that Sustainable Power used, has told The Times that investors have been informed that Government cuts to energy subsidies meant it was likely to go into voluntary liquidation once other options were exhausted..

    The website said the unit is powered by the mains gas supply and saves people money whilst lowering their carbon footprint.
    It said the technology was developed by the R&D team behind the seven-time world rally championship Prodrive Subaru WRC team…
    https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/business/18m-energy-firm-linked-sherford-1442908

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    mem

    Can someone with some knowledge of the proposed hydrogen from Vic brown coal to china project comment on the viability and sense of it apart from Turnbull trying to seem like he is doing something? this is the announcement as reported in breaking news https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/vic-brown-coal-hydrogen-plans-for-japan/news-story/bb93066ce1d2b1c3f606c2218aa87559

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    • #
      Lance

      Conversion of coal to gas or liquid fuels is part of the Fischer-Tropsch process. Essentially, it involves cooking coal with steam and catalysts to produce hydrogen or some kinds of liquid hydrocarbons. Vic Brown coal has high moisture, so it fits well in that specific process.

      From a thermodynamic point of view, this game implies inputing a great deal of energy to convert one form of energy to another because of political/social beliefs. Can it be done? Yes. Should it be done? only in specific circumstances: There is no more oil or natural gas.

      It is another rent seeking subsidized plan to create one fuel from another at great cost.

      Hydrogen is H2. Natural Gas is CH4. NG has twice as much energy as hydrogen. H2 is only a liquid below -240 C. Above that temperature, it is a gas. Economical storage pressures for gaseous H2 are approximately 350-700 Bars.

      Converting coal to hydrogen in order to produce energy is kind of stupid. There was more energy in the coal to begin with than will ever be recovered from the hydrogen. Hydrogen does not exist in nature as H2. It has to be made from something else, like coal or natural gas, or oil. But the point is H2 has less energy content than whatever it was made from. Electrolyzing water into H2 and O2 takes more energy than the H2 would release upon burning.

      Hydrogen is useful for some things. Creating it from other things takes a lot more energy than the H2 ever produces.

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      • #
        Kinky Keith

        That’s it Lance.

        Basically, it just doesn’t make sense from any point of view.

        * Economically, expensive.

        * The production processing required to get pure H2 is extreme.

        * Safety considerations involved with the storage of hydrogen make this idea unlikely to get past the “planning” stages. Given that so far, only the Political Planning appears to have been done we can expect a long wait while the engineering aspects are sorted.

        When it does come online we will have the Pure Green Trinity of Nature at our beck and call.

        Wind.
        Sun.
        Pure Clean Hydrogen.

        KK

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          Kinky Keith Apr12,18:15:10

          Pure Clean Hydrogen.

          Liquid H2 + LOX = highest specific impulse (action) of any oxidizing fuel; IF you gotsa Shuttle! da engines ‘r truly magnificent!
          Still takes those dirty, steekin solid boosters to pick dat puppy UP from da pad! 🙂
          All the best!-will-

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      • #
        mem

        Message to JO Nova
        Hi, Perhaps you could use Lance’s explanation as part of a separate blog post on the project.

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      • #
        Another Ian

        Lance

        You haven’t mentioned the problem of hydrogen being very hard to stop from leaking out.

        And the explosive potential of that because (IIRC) it has a wide combustible ratio of fuel to air.

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        • #
          sophocles

          Hydrogen is a very ‘slippery’ gas, which makes it very very difficult to contain.
          About seven or eight years ago, I was looking through hundreds (yes!) of papers investigating the porosity of many different glasses, ranging from plain glass, through various levels of lead glasses and glasses doped with many different atoms and even quartzes, to moderate the speed and ease of hydrogen’s ability to seep through them.

          The concept was to moderate hydrogen in fuel cells and glasses of different types were being investigated as a moderator. As far as I could see, they were all about the same: hydrogen just slipped through. Nice knowing you, bye!

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            sophocles Apr12,18:19:25

            Hydrogen is a very ‘slippery’ gas, which makes it very very difficult to contain.

            Not a fuel, but grand refrigerant,for a while; tiny (He) bubbles through 5cm solid aluminum @20 atmospheres. A 0.1-millitorr vacuum container is contaminated by atmospheric He first! 🙂

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              sophocles

              Of course it’s a brilliant fuel. Literally. When it goes off, it lights up the landscape well.
              One big flash, a bang and it’s gone. 🙂

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        • #
          Lance

          Good point. I was trying to keep it basic to answer Mem’s question.
          H2 is a very small molecule. It actually seeps through the “pores” of most metals and has a tendency to embrittle ferrous metals. Very difficult to seal off and store. It has one of the most flammable/explosive of all combustible gases covering a range of 4% to 75% by volume. Propane is covers the range of 2.1% to 9.5% by volume.

          Basically, if used as a motor car fuel, H2 would require a tank the size of a shipping container to have equivalent range equal to 60 Liters of petrol. It is not energy dense at all. H2 has 1/3 to 1/2 the energy of natural gas per unit volume. Attempting to convert gas pipelines from NG to H2 would essentially reduce their energy capacity by 50% or more due to the lower energy content and difficulty of compressing the H2 because of lower density.

          H2 is needed for many things in industrial chemistry, but as a fuel gas, it is a complete waste of time, effort, money, and energy. And it is very very dangerous to handle, store, or use.

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          • #
            Lance

            1 liter of gasoline is equivalent in energy to 3 cubic meters of H2 at 1 atm.
            60 liters of petrol would be roughly equal to 180 cubic meters of H2.
            At 300 Bar, the H2 would occupy about .7 cubic meters. But the tank would be awfully heavy.

            For my US buddies, 300 Bar is 4,500 PSI.

            What happens in a motorway accident is left to your imagination.

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            • #
              Kinky Keith

              At that pressure, dangerous at any speed.

              And the energy equivalent in gasoline, a good illustration of the practicality of using it.

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              • #
                sophocles

                I occasionally see an industrial gases truck doing its delivery rounds. I’ve noticed a number of cylinders labelled with bright red “Explosive: H2” or “Explosive: Hydrogen” labels all over them, among the acetylene, oxygen, nitrogen and other cylinders.

                The truck always seems to be in a hurry.

                I can’t imagine why …

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          • #
            sophocles

            As a fuel gas, it’s a complete waste of time.

            Hydrogen burns vigorously, but it doesn’t explode; it implodes. When all the atmospheric gases crash together in the space which was occupied by the implosion, they rebound which has the effect of a pressure wave, but with much lower pressure than it would have been had it been a true explosion, which is why infernal combustion engines won’t fly with hydrogen fuel.

            2 H2 + O2 => 2 H2O –from 3 molecules to two -> loss of pressure.

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    • #
      mem

      Thank you for the clear explanation. It sounds a lot like pumping water uphill for snowy 2. Both projects are expensive and seem to use up more energy than they produce and neither will fix the mess created by the foolhardy pursuance of renewables at the expense our once stable and affordable electricity supply.

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      • #

        We need to keep in mind the utter childishness of Turnbull. The reason there’s no more talk of Austraian Republic, New Federalism etc is that those are the toys he got sick of long ago and tossed out of the cot. The Pepe Le Pew submarines are now the problem of others (I’ve heard from an insider that negotiations with the French are nightmarish, thus no place for our kid Malcolm.)

        Uphill Snowy and now coal-to-hydrogen are his new shiny toys. They sound all spacemanish and the other boys will be so impressed when he shows them about the playgroup. Especially if he gets to come in his Bob-the-Builder clobber, with fluoro vest and hard hat. The other boys might think he’s tough and the girls might blush. Mummy Leigh and Aunt Emma might stop frowning and tell him he’s a clever kid. Of course, he will be sick of the new toys soon.

        It suits the crony capitalists/commos to have big babies like Turnbull and Trudeau in power. It should not suit us. Not for another minute.

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      David Maddison

      This is sickening. It will be yet another example of giving valuable Australian resources away at well below their true value. The brown coal should be used to make cheap electricity for Australia, not cheap hydrogen for Japan.

      Incidentally, is there any useful by-product from this process or is all the coal consumed in the inefficient process?

      And what are the CO2 emissions, not that they are a concern?

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      • #
        sophocles

        It will be yet another example of giving valuable Australian resources away at well below their true value.

        That’s the whole idea. They’re not your resources, they’re for whoever wants to buy them and they have to be cheap. See what’s happening in Africa. That’s where we’re all going.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      This is sickening. It will be yet another example of giving valuable Australian resources away at well below their true value. The brown coal should be used to make cheap electricity for Australia, not cheap hydrogen for Japan.

      Incidentally, is there any useful by-product from this process or is all the coal consumed in the inefficient process?

      And what are the CO2 emissions, not that they are a concern?

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    • #
      David Maddison

      There should be a law prohibiting politicians making scientific or engineering decisions, or indeed, any decisions.

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      • #
        sophocles

        David Maddison said:

        There should be a law prohibiting politicians making scientific or engineering decisions, or indeed, any decisions.

        ROTFL I have a lot of sympathy for that position.

        Good luck with that one, David. They are the lawmakers after all. However, seeing how gullible they are, if you pitch it right you just might be able to get enough of them seeing it your way after all, to really have some fun.

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  • #
    pat

    12 Apr: ABC: Sydney’s extended summer ‘confusing’ plants and keeping lifesavers on their toes
    by Alice Matthews
    Over the past week, a new record was set for the hottest Sydney day in April, and Dubbo recorded its longest stretch of days above 30 degrees, according to the Bureau of Meteorology.
    Sydney also saw its longest running hot spell for April, with nine consecutive days of temperatures reaching 25C or above.
    The temperature on Observatory Hill on Monday was 35.4C, beating last year’s record of 34.2C, and although it might not sound like a lot, one degree of difference is quite significant, meteorologists say.
    Today, it is expected to reach a high 33C in the city and 34C in the west…

    Crepe myrtles, Manchurian pear trees, bougainvilleas, magnolias and frangipanis should be shedding their leaves.
    But Tim Pickles, from Tim’s Garden Centre in Campbelltown, said he had seen them all flower again due to a bout of rain in the area.
    “The trees are just very confused at the moment — they think it’s spring again,” he said.
    “I’ve planted cabbage seedlings and broccoli, they like the colder weather, and they’re just sitting there sulking,” he said…

    He added mango tree sales have spiked, with more tropical trees thriving in the region.
    “We’re selling 100 mango trees a year — in Campbelltown!
    “Thirty years ago if someone said ‘I want to grow a mango tree’, I would have said they will die from frost in winter, but now we are selling so many.”…

    “With our seals, they’re not as hungry and a bit more lethargic on a warmer day,” Andrew Irvine from the Marine Mammal Department at Taronga Conservation Society said…
    He said the penguins had finished their moult and were not due to breed until August or September.
    “If we’ve got sustained hot weather around breeding and moulting, that is more of a concern, but those spikes we can manage fairly well.”…

    The hot April has meant an extended bushfire season and delays in hazard reduction burning, according to the New South Wales Rural Fire Service.
    RFS spokesman Inspector Ben Shepherd said there had been more heightened fire danger ratings than normal for autumn.
    “To see places like Sydney especially, move into the ‘severe fire danger’ range is unusual for this time of the year,” he said…

    Liam Howitt from Surf Lifesaving New South Wales said it looked like they were heading towards one of their busiest Aprils on record…
    But Bruce Hopkins, head lifeguard Bondi Beach said it had mostly been business-as-usual at one of Australia’s busiest beaches.
    “No need to put more people on, we’ve had probably a lot more people hanging around into April than what we usually do, but the impact hasn’t been significant.”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-12/sydney-summer-continues-plants-animals-affected/9636620

    on ABC “Just In” page, the following is the next story:

    12 Apr: ABC: Conservationists plan a food drop to save migratory shorebirds from starvation
    RN Breakfast By Stephanie Smail
    One of the coldest winters in decades in a nature reserve in eastern China has wiped out the clam population, the major food source for the critically endangered Great Knot…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-12/food-drop-to-save-migratory-shorebirds-from-starvation-in-china/9640988

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  • #
    TdeF

    Has anyone ever considered that rising CO2 is caused by rising water temperature? No. That would be too obvious and logical. Somehow we are heating the water and damaging the Great Barrier Reef. Explanations do not have to make sense. Green ideology is a science free zone.

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    • #
      sophocles

      Somehow we are heating the water and damaging the Great Barrier Reef

      We white man? No. We’re not heating the seas. That’s entirely Nature’s fault. It’s one of the reasons there is always a delay (probably variable) between what the sun is doing and what happens down here. Do the words volcanic and activity ring any bells for you?
      I’ve thought that for years, and it’s the main reason why I’m interested in submarine volcanism. It takes a while to work the molten rock out and when that’s worked out, the seas and the atmosphere catch up with the sun in quite a hurry.

      Hot rock is slow. Willis over at Wattsupwiththat hasn’t worked that out yet.

      Here are a few cluebats. I apologise for these not being papers, I’ve got some papers saved in electronic form somewhere among my 12TB of storage, but I haven’t yet (and may not be able to) find their origins. Sorry. Meanwhile, these articles are more recent and may even give you links to papers.

      El Ninos fueled by deep sea volcanism
      Global seismicity portends global cooling
      Vortex tectonics

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      • #
        sophocles

        Oh yes, that reminds me: it’s also fairly obvious from the OCO-2 satellite views. There’s a fairly sizable plume to the west-south-west well off Australia’s west coast. From the look of it, it’s responsible for almost all the CO2 in the air passing over Australia.

        Have a play with the website tools and see what you can see …

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      • #
        sophocles

        And don’t worry about the GBReefs: they’ve been killed off, dismantled and demolished some 66 times over the last 2.5 MY. Every interstadial, they’ve reappeared. All the fuss over them is rather amusing … 🙂

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          sophocles

          Ah, here’s a short article by Arthur Viterito (College of Southern Maryland).[pdf]

          Do you remember the big “Green” blob in the North East Pacific off the west coast of California? I haven’t any proof of this, but I have wondered if that was where the plume of hot water from an erupting Mt Ajax was surfacing.

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    pat

    12 Apr: SBS Blog: AFP/SBS: New Zealand stops offshore oil and gas exploration to deal with climate change
    New Zealand is putting a stop to all new offshore oil and gas exploration in an attempt to tackle climate change.
    “(We are) taking an important step to address climate change and create a clean, green and sustainable future for New Zealand,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said.
    The oil and gas industry in New Zealand generates about NZ$2.5 billion a year ($1.8 billion), including NZ$1.5 billion in exports, and employs about 11,000 people.
    Ardern said existing drilling and exploration permits would not be affected, meaning no existing jobs would be lost.

    She said there would also be limited new on-shore permits around the North Island’s Taranaki region, where most of New Zealand industry is concentrated…

    Environmental groups welcomed the move, with Greenpeace declaring “the tide has turned irreversibly against Big Oil in New Zealand”.
    “This is a huge step forward for New Zealand and a landmark moment in the transition to a clean-energy economy,” WWF New Zealand chief Livia Esterhazy said.
    But the conservative opposition National Party accused Ardern of “economic vandalism” that could put thousands of jobs at risk.

    Opposition energy spokesman Jonathan Young said gas helped ensure New Zealand’s electricity supply and when existing reserves ran out in 10 years it would be forced to import emissions-heavy alternatives such as coal.
    “This decision is devoid of any rationale. It certainly has nothing to do with climate change,” he said…

    Industry group Petroleum Exploration and Production NZ (PEPANZ) said it had been blindsided by the announcement and had not been consulted by the government.
    Chief executive Cameron Madgwick said a well-managed trading scheme was the way to reduce New Zealand’s emissions, not “arbitrarily banning” certain fuel types…
    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/new-zealand-stops-offshore-oil-and-gas-exploration-to-deal-with-climate-change?cid=trending

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      pat

      12 Apr: NZ Herald: ‘Trillions of cubic metres’ of undiscovered offshore gas still available under existing permits
      by Patrick Smellie
      Oil and gas industry participants appeared blind-sided by the announcements, with the country’s largest gas user, Methanex, saying it would be issuing a public statement “in the next couple of hours” and New Zealand’s only listed petrochemical producer, New Zealand Oil & Gas also yet to make a statement when NZX trading began at 10am…

      Likewise, OMV, now the largest owner of both production and exploration assets in New Zealand since announcing its purchase of the local interests of Royal Dutch Shell last month, had yet to comment by mid-morning.

      However, it appears the industry will approve of the concept of transition away from fossil fuels but argue that the emissions trading scheme is the best mechanism for achieving this and that today’s announcements will only create uncertainty for New Zealand’s future energy supplies…

      However, Energy Minister Megan Woods stressed in a press conference detailing the announcements that there was a strong likelihood of further oil and gas finds from the 57 exploration permits already in existence and the fact that the longest-lived of the oil and gas fields already in production would continue to supply hydrocarbons until the mid-2040s.
      “There are potentially trillions of cubic metres in the Barque field,” she said, referring to an offshore oil and gas exploration permit area off the Canterbury coast, where NZOG is the licence operator.

      However, the signal from today meant that for South Island industries using coal for industrial heat – a reference mainly to Fonterra Cooperative Group, which uses coal at its milk-processing plants – it was time to start assessing bio-fuels and electricity for heating in the future…

      ***The announcement on ending offshore exploration came ahead of today’s annual release of the country’s greenhouse gas “inventory”, and a day after the coldest night of the year so far, which saw the Huntly power station running on coal to maintain national electricity supplies…
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12031089

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      Geoffrey Williams

      Jacinda Ardernz – another green lefty zealot wants to put NZ on the world stage and will end all future ofshore oil & gas exploration in New Zealand in order to save the country from climate change. But their current emmissions must be negligible on the world scale. And this after NZ experienced its coldest night so far this year. She will send NZ broke and they’ll all ‘freeze to death’. Good luck with her . .
      GeoffW

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        Dennis

        And she has announced that university education will be free.

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        sophocles

        Dear little Jacinda Ardern seems to think NZ can save the world from all the Indian and Chinese emissions. NZ only makes 0.1% or less of the annual total. If we did nothing, the climate would never notice. (It won’t anyway despite the rhetoric.)

        But it will reduce our economic health.

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        sophocles

        Jacinda Ardernz – another green lefty zealot

        That green is mould, not dye or paint. And it’s probably coming from the Green Party (James “Cat6” Shaw) one of Labour’s coalition partners.

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    Dennis

    A reply from my Federal MP to a lengthy letter email I sent to both members federal and state regarding to energy crisis has resulted in a lengthy reply and enclosure of Media Releases from Minister Frydenberg MP and joint Media Release from the NSW Minister Harwin MP.

    The key points are:-

    * Ending subsidies for energy which are passed on to all customers.
    * The Renewable Energy Target will cease in 2020.
    * Renewable Energy Sources will have to compete with all other energy sources.
    * Creating a level playing field that ensures all types of energy are part of the Australia’s mix.
    * National Energy Guarantee involves no taxes, subsidies or trading schemes.
    * Providing certainty for investors in new and existing power plants.
    * Reducing volatility. Unpredictable power supplies, such as wind and solar, create price spikes when the wind doesn’t blow or the sun doesn’t
    shine. By guaranteeing reliability, we will reduce those spikes, putting downward pressure on prices.
    * The Independent Energy Security Board estimates our National Energy Guarantee will result in lower residential bills of around $100-$115
    per year, over a decade. By introducing the National Energy Guarantee it is estimated a saving of $200 per year to the average household
    electricity bills.

    References – Minister for the Environment and Energy

    29 March 2018: Improving The Accuracy Of energy Bills For Consumers
    29 March 2018: Market Operrator Highlights Need For More Gas Supply

    Reference – Minister for the Environment and Energy Canberra, Minister for Resources, Minister for Energy and Utilities, Minister for the Arts NSW

    2 February 2018: Better Outcomes For Electricity Consumers

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      Lionell Griffith

      By guaranteeing reliability, we will reduce those spikes, putting downward pressure on prices.

      The government creating a paper guarantee of reliability does not create reliability. One actually has to create things that ARE reliable.

      Hope is not a strategy. Wishing is not a tactic. Relying on a government to do the right thing never works in the long run.

      This is because governments produce nothing and exist based upon taking the wealth produced by others. Their motivation is to continue and to expand their intrusion into that which they pretend to govern. That is ALL they have done since the first government was instituted. Even the one based upon the US Constitution.

      Why then do you expect your current government to be any different?

      Unless and until the ideas that people use to live their lives change for the better, we will continue to get the same results.

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        sophocles

        Lionell, have you ever noticed that when the politicians make claims such as …putting downward pressure on prices… they always go up … faster?

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          Lionell Griffith

          Yes. The issue is the politicians feel they have control over such things by passing laws to be reduced to rules and standards and to be applied to the citizens. Meanwhile, reality does its thing and ignores the hopes, dreams, and wishes of the politicians. In reality, the laws etc. passed by government is an attempt to force reality to be what it isn’t. Can’t be done. Hence all their grand plans ultimately fail to accomplish what they were said to be intended to accomplish. Usually, the consequences are worse the exact thing the politicians said they wanted to fix.

          More fundamentally, government is a religious exercise of worship of brute force. The “plan” is to apply sufficient boots, guns, knives, and other tools of force to cause “it” (not otherwise specified) to happen. All this accomplishes is the destruction of wealth and the prevention of what needs to happen to fix the presenting problem.

          It is the nature of reality that goals can only be obtained by implementing the actions that result in the goal being met. This requires a massive amount of knowledge of the current state of things, the necessary conditions that makes meeting the goal possible, and the processes to follow that meeting the goal is the necessary outcome. Then acting accordingly. There is no magic. These things are particular and specific or the wished for outcome will not be achieved. All brute force can do is kill people and destroy things. Even that cannot be done so well without a massive amount of knowledge about the same things that are required to reach a specific goal.

          The bottom line is the reason that government action fails is that the government is so powerful and tries to use that power to make happen what it wishes to make happen. Reality doesn’t care and continues to do its thing.

          The above is why a`government’s only valid function is to prevent, protect, and prosecute violations of individual rights no matter what their source. Anything else is a source of such violations.

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        sophocles

        Turnbull is wrong. It’s not Socialist to Nationalise an Service Venture which, in it’s most efficient form, is a natural monopoly.
        It makes:
        – economic sense. The electricity generation and supply is most efficient as a number of generators creating a supply which is distributed through a single statewide or national grid and local distribution at retail level. That ensures a low cost operation. Any part of the ensuing network can be put out to competitive tender for its operation. It does not need to be operated by its owner, but, because it is a monopoly, it must be owned by the people as it is for the people. This model proved to be very successful in the USA. There is nothing Socialist about public ownership of a monopoly. That is hogwash promulgated by the World Bank trying to stamp out what it regards, incorrectly, as Socialism. Its really to enable parts to be sold off to crony capitalists and external rent seekers at bargain basement prices, for which the Bank charges fees.

        – strategic sense. Who wants their energy network controlled by organisations from outside the country, who, for whatever reason, may end up as an enemy? War is a human institution. The UN doesn’t and can’t guarantee no war: Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Yemen are proof of that. As their neutrality cannot be ensured, there is a sizable risk and it makes no strategic sense to be run from what could by any stretch of the imagination, become an enemy. Australia had significant metals refining, engineering and ammunition and small arms manufacturing enterprises after WW2. They had (or still have) substantive ship building (warships of various sorts) industry. Not keeping the energy supply owned in such a way it can be secured against those who could be interested in disrupting it, is foolish to the point of giddiness.
        If you can’t equip armed forces dedicated to the country’s defence, than why have them? Haven’t the boats of illegal immigrants been lesson enough?

        – service sense: If it’s built with the people’s money, it should remain owned by the people to receive the best return for their investment. Government in this case, is a Trustee and not an Owner which can do what it wants as the asset is an asset of the people and not of the government. Therefore government cannot dispose of any part or parts of the assets unless openly and clearly instructed by the owner. Any other disposition is malfeasance and should be treated as such. That return is not for crony rent seeking capitalists. The people determine when it needs replacing and by what. Neither is that “Socialist.”

        It’s only Socialist to Nationalise services or means of production which are not natural monopolies and would be better left to private enterprise.

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    PeterS

    If the Renewable Energy Target will cease in 2020 why are they going to keep the subsidies going much longer than that? I understand their excuse is it’s not fair to do it at the same time because it would disrupt existing projects and investments in renewables. So by the time we have a level playing field it will many years past 2020, say 2025. Then and only then we might see coal fired power stations being considered; perhaps. By the time they are built and online, it will be most likely 2030+ and then prices might start to come down but from what level? They really have perfected the art of doublespeak far better than the ALP. I suppose we can look forward to the ALP leapfrogging them soon and things will get even worse. The only way to break this death spiral is not to vote for either major or their partners ever again until one of them has turned and promised to put a stop to all this nonsense the instant they are elected, just like what Abbott did with the coal tax. I won’t be holding my breath.

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      TdeF

      “They really have perfected the art of doublespeak far better than the ALP. “. Clearly also Turnbull could deny anything in defiance of the facts. Even his ministers say so. As Abbott says, his best barrister style. Like Clinton.

      However Frydenberg has now perfected a meaningless banter which makes him sound balanced and now calls support for coal right wing extremism, political. As for stopping the ‘subsidies’. What subsidies, what taxpayers? The government pays nothing. We pay. Even non taxpayers pay for these Green dreams of saving the world and the polar bears and the reef and the jobs of the millions employed in the Climate Change industry.

      As ever, only Abbott is speaking the plain truth. Even brought in at a minute before midnight, he would have the support of all sides, except the Greens and Fairfax and their ABC/SBS.

      In the UK as here, 20,000 moderates have left the Labor party with Corben’s blatant anti-Semitism. As here the needs and wants and views of the people mean nothing. The party has been stolen. Promise the students everything. Here the Greens want to give everyone $20,000 a year without jobs. Unbelievable. It shows their total disconnect with reality.

      Malcolm is just another tin pot dictator, the great communicator who cannot finish a sentence, cannot speak plainly and a science ignorant man. All things to all people and pleasing no one but himself, as always. The sooner Abbott’s back, the sooner this insanity stops.

      After thirty years of this there is no Man Made Global Warming. There is even no warming, no sea rise and the polar bears are fine. So why do we have the most expensive electricity in the world? We don’t even have polar bears?

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        PeterS

        Unfortunately I see no way for Abbott to come back. He doesn’t have the right character. No, we need a fresh start. Someone like Trump who calls a spade a spade, and has the courage to stand up and not put up with the BS. Trouble is we don’t have anyone like that. The irony of it all is Australia is supposed to be leading nation in the world for down to earth non-BS “spade is a spade” type people. Where did they all disappear to? I always was and will always remain that type of person. I hate BS, spin, snake oil talk like that from our politicians and business leaders of today. It makes me sick. I used to work for a company that had smooth talking marketing, presales and sales who just turned my stomach just listening to them telling fib after fib to clients. Often it was embarrassing because I knew the client didn’t believe them. Needles to say the company didn’t do too well and I left. I think Australians have become too soft and too gullible. Hence we won’t see any major change for the better soon.

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        • #

          People activated by genuine principles, unlike yr politico-
          careerists, are likely open to learning from experience and
          worthy of another chance. I’d choose Abbott over Turnbull,
          second time around … given the chance.

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          TdeF

          Doesn’t have the right character? You must be kidding. That was the hatchet job done by Turnbull’s ABC.
          Winking on radio. Biting an onion. Responding for the request from the Palace for Phillip’s 90th birthday, all twisted around to make him seem somehow incompetent or arrogant. All Fake news. The Deep State in Australia. Out of control ABC/SBS working for Tunrbull.

          Lord Mockton warned us that the UN was gunning for Abbott before Paris. Trillions in the wind, as we are seeing. Turnbull and Goldmann Sachs, bankers. Monckton was right.

          Malcolm would have been out of a job in six months if he had Malcolm against him running the ABC/SBS and undermining him. Prince of Point Piper. Assets hidden in the Caribbean. A pretend man of the people who keeps bankers hours and gets on a tram in his banker’s pin stripe suit. Also there was cabinet principle that ministers support the PM. Trashed by Black Hand who used their position to destroy a popular Prime Minister. The bedwetters went to water. Only Daniel Andrews saved Turnbull from oblivion.

          Now people think the man who removed the Carbon Tax, the Mining Tax and stopped the boats and signed three major Free Trade Agreements was not up to the job? Was his biting an onion on TV. What about the alleged affair with Credlin? Nothing was too low for the ABC and Abbott’s ministers. The same people who knew all about Barnaby but said nothing.

          No one prefers ultra rich inheritor and self appointed genius Malcolm over Abbott, except those who do not vote for the Liberals anyway and those who have been brainwashed by the media who hate him. Just listen to the chorus of journalists who are afraid he might return. Paul Kelly, Van Onselen and a dozen other Turnbull lackeys. Think Nikka Savva.

          Abbott would romp home. Everyone knows it. Get rid of the RET and the job is done. Reduce immigration to a manageable level, not a Newscastle or Geelong a year. Bring in compatible people and people with talent and education and most importantly, people who want to work. 3/4 of the 80,000 illegal arrivals have never even applied for a job.

          We have to take back control of our own country.

          The loser who stole Abbott’s job needs to go. It was stolen on a lie. Let a man put in the hard years and steal his job and undo his good work. Who needs politicians like that? Where’s the famous Australia fair go? Malcolm and his plotters have had their chance and they are worse than Rudd and Gillard combined.

          As for Malcolm, he has a real problem with the truth. 30 Newspolls? Turnbull must go now. He has no intention of giving up the job. He worked too hard to get rid of Abbott.

          Now you have Frydenberg wanting to phase our ‘taxpayer’ ‘subsidies’ to protect his friends with the free windmills and solar systems? It all must stop now. Malcolm’s Black Hand is a terrorist organization who are wrecking our country. They must go.
          Can we please have Abbott back?

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            sophocles

            We have to take back control of our own country.

            You don’t control your country. The UN does.
            The removal of Abbott proves that.
            Turnbull is just following orders.

            To get control of your own country back you may have to remove the country from the World Bank, the IMF and the UN.
            But if you do that, you’ll have to reinstate all the armaments industries Australia used to have, which means you will have to reinstate all the mining, metals refining and engineering industries. Repairing the damage to the electrical supply will have to precede all that for them to work.
            Good luck with it all.

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              TdeF

              We can start. The US has their Donald Trump. We need to drain the swamp too.

              First, force the ABC to obey their charter or sell it. We all pay more than Foxtel to get something run for the benefit of the employees who force their opinions on everyone.

              While Malcolm was in charge of his ABC/SBS, it was untouchable. When Abbott gets back, his first move must be to dismantle this private club.

              Otherwise politicians live in fear of our unlimited taxpayer media giant doing what they did to Hockey and Abbott. Remember ‘Joker’ Hockey, to his face from Leigh Sales? Either fix it or sell it. Close the SBS. Ethnic broadcasting? Why? It was before the days of the Internet and satellite. SBS is a joke, $500Million a year. For what? Another private club?

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                sophocles

                The ABC is another Asset of the People. They have a charter: enforce it. That’s the responsible Minister’s job and if s/he is not doing their job, hold them accountable.

                The ABC’s job is to keep all the other radio media “honest” and itself “unbiased.” Definitions of these should not be as elastic as they are often treated. If they can’t/aren’t, then it’s time to get the brooms out … and use them.

                I’m not Australian and live in Auckland NZ, so no, I know nothing about ‘Joker’ Hockey or Leigh Sales. I can honestly say: “Never heard of them!” We have our own problems with our own media, egos, wannabe celebs, and Ministers. 🙁

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              • #
                sophocles

                We can start. The US has their Donald Trump. We need to drain the swamp too.

                Damn Right! It needs some clear thinking and appointment of clear thinkers. That’s Trump’s big strength. It’s why he’s gone through so many appointees: first sign of muddled thinking, non-adherence to the line or attempt at an individual line, they’re gone. Trump knows exactly what he wants.

                Make a list and prioritize it. Look at the dependencies and reorganize it into its critical path. Then go for it.

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            Dennis

            You reminded me …

            PART 4 | Relentless Undermining (2009 – 2015)

            This part covers Turnbull’s ruthless campaign of needling and white-anting against Prime Minister Tony Abbott. I demonstrate that Turnbull didn’t merely take advantage of Abbott’s poor polling, he helped create it.

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        Annie

        Sorry TdeF…unintended red thumb…just resting hand while reading…rats! Add a green one in lieu! 🙂

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    Robber

    PM spruiks plan to export hydrogen from brown coal
    Believe it or not. Is there no end to Turnbull’s big brainless ideas?
    Victoria’s brown coal will be converted into hydrogen for export to Japan – who would have known such magic existed? Hydrogen magically produced from evil Carbon. The multi-billion dollar project (presumably with some more government investment like Snowy2) will produce liquefied hydrogen, which is expected to be used in Japan for power generation and to fuel electric vehicles. So the plan is to burn coal that produces CO2, but instead of generating low cost electricity for Victorians, use the heat to decompose H2O into Hydrogen and Oxygen, then liquefy the hydrogen. And hey presto, clean fuel!! But just a moment – could we also generate some electricity for Victoria?
    Hydrogen is produced by reacting coal with oxygen and steam under high pressures and temperatures to form synthesis gas, a mixture consisting primarily of carbon monoxide and hydrogen. The carbon monoxide in the gas mixture is reacted with steam through the water-gas shift reaction to produce additional hydrogen and carbon dioxide. Hydrogen is removed by a separation system, and the highly concentrated carbon dioxide stream can subsequently be captured and stored. And the world is saved, but at what cost?

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    mem

    Public opinion in Australia on renewables has changed significantly over the past 3 years according to Essential Research polling. In 2015 50% of respondents favoured gov giving renewables preference over coal based generation. According to the most recent Essential Report 2018 opinion poll this has dropped markedly to 37%. Importantly for policy makers a combined tally of those that now think that gov should favour coal or treat renewables and coal equally totalled 48%. (15% said they “don’t know”).

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    John Watt

    Poor old socialist Qld…several State owned coal fired power stations and frequently exporting to NSW even with Liddell operating. Someone needs to keep Liddell open…socialist or not. I assume Liddell operates under a generation licence from NSW Govt. Gladys could pull the licence?

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    rk

    Lance:
    Even in special circumstances you would not go down that road. Professor George Olah, the 1994 Chemistry Nobel Laureate wrote a book : Beyond Oil and Gas – The Methanol Economy.
    http://www.f.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~kanai/seminar/pdf/Lit_T_Matsumoto_B4.pdf He points the way by electrolysis of H2O producing H2 and taking CO2 from the air using Ca(OH)2 OR KOH as absorbents. It would need nuclear power for such heat and energy but liquid fuels could be produced. Liquified hydrogen would be a nightmare to ship and possibly not much would remain of the shipment on a long voyage to Japan due to continuous leakage.

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    pat

    ***Giles bends some truth himself…and most of his readers – see comments – go along for the ride:

    12 Apr: RenewEconomy: Craig Kelly slams RenewEconomy: “Shameless propaganda arm of green rent seekers”
    By Giles Parkinson
    Craig Kelly, the chairman of the Coalition’s backbench energy committee, clearly doesn’t think much of wind and solar, and it appears he thinks even less of this website.
    A reader this week sent Kelly a link to a story we published on Monday – or, more to the point, republished from The Conversation – which was co-authored by ANU researchers Andrew Blakers and Matthew Stocks, and which predicted a rapid switch from fossil fuels to renewables.
    It was titled: Solar PV and wind on track to replace all coal, oil and gas within two decades.
    Kelly and/or his office erupted, and he or his minders promptly replied with this email…
    EMAIL
    So, let’s go into Kelly’s email in detail. It was only a few paragraphs long, but it was Biblical in its ***bending of

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    pat

    12 Apr: HeraldScotland: Letter: Time to put a dampener on the latest wind generation figures
    THERE has been much in the media about the increase in wind generation of 2017 compared to 2016 (“Huge rise in wind power supplying electricity to Scots homes”, The Herald, January 9). In part the reason for this is that an unprecedented number of new turbines were commissioned to gain subsidies before the subsidies were scrapped.

    The reader also needs to understand that there are good wind years and bad wind years; 2010 and 2016 were bad wind years, and more will follow.

    Even in good wind years there are many days when there’s little wind across the UK. An average for wind generation over a year can easily be calculated. In the “incredible” wind year of 2017 there were 53 occasions when UK wind generation dropped below 25 per cent per cent of this average, 17 occasions when it dropped below 10 per cent and two occasions when it dropped below five per cent.

    A question arises. What will fill the electricity shortfall if such occasions coincide with the hours of darkness in the much-vaunted future 100 per cent renewables future, particularly with plans to force us to change our heating and cars from fossil fuel to electric?

    Some people claim that batteries will power Britain. Well, Leighton Buzzard, which when commissioned was described as the biggest battery in Europe, would power Britain for less than one second. It cost £19 million and is the size of three tennis courts.
    Geoff Moore, Braeface Park, Alness.

    2 COMMENTS ONLY AT TIME OF POSTING:
    Michael Lloyd 29 mins ago
    Another climate change denier accentuating the negative. History will not look kindly on your sort.

    Tom McGill 1 min ago
    Given that you have not challenged the figures, one takes it that you agree with them. Ah nostalgia. Shopping by candlelight, away early from work to a warm pint in a dingy boozer – those were the days.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/16152965.Time_to_put_a_dampener_on_the_latest_wind_generation_figures/

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    pat

    read all:

    11 Apr: Toronto Sun: Lorrie Goldstein: Justin Trudeau’s Peter Pan Syndrome
    The mess Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has made of the Kinder Morgan Trans Mountain pipeline dispute in British Columbia is the result of his Peter Pan Syndrome…
    We saw it in his absurd suggestions during the 2015 election campaign that Alberta’s oil sands, and Canada’s entire oil and gas industry, were nothing more than temporary evils.
    That Canada under Trudeau world earn the world’s praise by painlessly transitioning our resource-based economy to green energy, laughing all the way to the bank in the process.
    Such foolish boasts were examples of Peter Pan Syndrome.

    They were best summed up in 2012 by Trudeau’s good friend and current top political adviser, Gerald Butts, who said as the then head of the World Wildlife Fund Canada: “We don’t think there ought to be a carbon-based energy industry by the middle of this century.”

    Suggesting Canada should abandon fossil fuels by 2050 revealed a staggering misunderstanding of Canadian and global energy needs.
    Energy that can’t be supplied by wind turbines and solar panels because, unlike fossil fuels, the power they provide is intermittent. It can’t be stored for use when needed, nor is it economically feasible, given current technologies, without massive subsidies.

    The bitter fruit of Trudeau’s half-baked ideas about energy are seen today as the PM heads off for Peru while his cabinet ministers run away from reporters asking what the federal government plans to do to get the stalled Trans Mountain pipeline built, a project it says it supports.
    They resemble deer frozen in the headlights…

    Texas-based Kinder Morgan, tired of procedural delays on its $7.4-billion project, has suspended non-essential work on its pipeline with a deadline of May 31 to resolve the impasse.
    Meanwhile, federal Environment Minister Catherine McKenna assures Canadians the billions of dollars we’re paying under Trudeau’s national carbon pricing scheme — which was supposed to give him the “social licence” to approve pipelines — will achieve our United Nations commitments to meet our industrial greenhouse gas emission reduction targets in 2030. Except anyone who can add thinks that’s impossible.

    All this while federal Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr assures Canadians the Trudeau government is considering all options to get the stalled Kinder Morgan pipeline going, while refusing to discuss them…READ ON
    http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-justin-trudeaus-peter-pan-syndrome

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    pat

    12 Apr: Fin24: Op-ed: South Africa faces bleak future if IPP plan goes ahead
    by Rob Jeffrey
    (Rob Jeffrey is an independent economic risk consultant and the former MD of Econometrix. He is an expert on South Africa’s energy crisis)
    Large-scale high penetration use of renewables will have negative long-terms effects on the economy…
    The first of three major impacts is that it will lead to a significant decline in the mining sector generally, and the coal sector in particular.
    The sector could shrink by 46% given the direct, indirect and induced impact, reducing South Africa’s gross domestic product (GDP) by over 2.5%.
    This will result in a loss of at least 29 000 jobs in the coal mining industry and almost 162 000 jobs in the economy, which will detrimentally affect more than 600 000 dependants.

    Secondly, wind only produces 35% of the time and solar only 26%. Because they are variable, unpredictable and unreliable, renewables require 100% back-up at all times.
    This will primarily be provided by gas turbines. Due to large gas imports, the country’s balance of payments would be seriously detrimentally affected…

    Thirdly, the drive for renewables would deprive South African citizens of the value and added value of the country’s coal and uranium reserves. The value of each of these is more than R10trn. This translates into many hospitals, schools and other social benefits…

    The mining and the industrial sectors have been static and shown little growth for many years. Since 1986, the mining sector’s share of GDP has fallen from about 13% to just 7% at present.
    The industrial secondary sector’s share of GDP has fallen from 30% to only 19%.
    These sectors also supply over 60% of the country’s exports. They are electricity intensive and need security of supply at the lowest possible economic and financial cost.

    The inefficiency and high cost of wind and solar electricity are notorious, in regions ranging from Europe to South Australia…
    Studies show that major wind and solar sites are inappropriate for South Africa; they require many hidden subsidies and are extremely costly.
    An examination of Eskom’s annual results in 2017 reveals that the power utility’s revenue was R177bn. Of its raw energy budget of R83bn, 24% was paid to IPPs.

    A substantial amount of that electricity was not required. About R20bn was paid for electricity from IPPs. This in effect amounts to a direct subsidy for renewable energy.

    There is nothing like the test of global reality. In 2016, prices paid by industry in Germany were 52% higher than in France (nuclear) and 86% higher than Poland (coal).

    There is no country in the world with high penetration renewables, where electricity prices are cheaper than coal or nuclear-powered electricity where available.
    South Africa is well endowed with the world’s most efficient and cheapest energy sources, namely nuclear and coal. It has no legal commitments in terms of the COP21 global agreement on climate change…
    It must do what other high growth emerging economies are doing, “placing their own economic and social interests first”…

    South Africa is rapidly losing its sovereignty to the overseas vested renewable interests in Germany and Denmark. The country will be committed to long-term purchase agreements of high tech renewable imports for decades to come, while creating minimal ongoing employment.
    It has been estimated that about 60% of expenditure will go to foreign interests. Over the next 20 years the renewable plan will cost over R1.4trn. R800bn will be spent on imported components and foreign payments.

    Before signing any final agreements, the government needs to reconsider these issues very carefully. If South Africa goes ahead on its current path it will slow economic growth, insidiously increase poverty and inequity and ultimately lead South Africa to political and social instability.
    Indeed, South African and its citizens will be facing a dark future.
    https://www.fin24.com/Opinion/sa-faces-bleak-future-if-ipp-plan-goes-ahead-20180412

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    The Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

    ATTENTION TO ALL:

    If you do NOT read anything else in this thread, please read MudCrab at #2.1.1.5

    I’ve never understood the left-leaning (totalitarian) mindset, and this finally brings it into some focus. The information is essential to understanding what we’re dealing with.

    Vlad

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      Annie

      Yes, I agree. The lefty stance makes no sense whatsoever. I think Mud crab makes some very good points there.

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      Richard Ilfeld

      It is critical to understand the number of items of public policy that the left wishes to, or has in the past, imposed on populations based on myth. They cannot listen as reality shatters their world.
      I hope I can express these with enough delicacy to avoid otherwise deserved moderation….

      We assume that the paen to CAGW….Climate change is essentially based on fraud. We blame liberals for science blindness. it is a trend.

      There is no evidence that, left to nature, every occupation and station of life would be occupied by uniform distributions of races, genders, sexual preferences, redheads, or any other genetic or cultural difference. Every bit of history suggests otherwise.

      There is no evidence that diversity, as a goal, improves the performance economically (how we usually measure), of any organization.

      There is no evidence that all humans are a blank slate, and that unequal outcomes represent a failure of the educational establishment rather than innate differences.

      There is no evidence that “the health of the mother” is enhanced by the absolute right to terminate a pregnancy up to the moment of birth, and no evidence that the strength and comity of society is improved by this rule.

      There is no evidence that genetic modifications of food made by laboratory intervention are distinguishable from those fathered by cosmic rays or genetic random chance.

      There is no evidence to show that the genders are equal is all aspects of life, not to mention fungible.

      There is no evidence that there is a specific arc of history, that can be divined by a few enlightened individuals, and that somehow forcing the masses to change their behaviour forces conformance with this predetermined arc. Logic is not always a strong suite of liberalism.

      There is evidence that “progress can make the world a better place”. There is no evidence that changing the fundamental behaviors of individuals by coercion succeeds to this end.

      There is no evidence that liberals believe in freedom of speech, or expression, except their own.

      There is little or no evidence that liberals believe rights are innate as opposed to being granted by some temporal collective; it follows that there is no permanence.

      In the world of liberals, right and wrong, truth and lies, freedom and slavery, are all “it depends” or “its complicated” or “it’s too nuanced for you to understand”.

      Let’s keep it simple: If you don’t respect the person you are debating, no rules of debate apply.
      Today’s liberals have lost all respect for those they disagree with….which is really a damn shame when the disagreed with are mostly paying the bills and is unlikely to lead to a good outcome.

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    pat

    Bill advises Jerry:

    11 Apr: LA Times: Bill McKibben: Jerry Brown’s work to seal his climate legacy is only half done
    It seems a little churlish to prod Jerry Brown on carbon issues. He’s done as much as any leader in the world to move forward on the climate and energy crises that are the defining challenges of our time.
    But the truth is Brown’s not done anywhere near what he could, nor what the situation demands. As a coalition of nearly 800 groups from across the state, the country and the planet make clear in a letter to Brown released Wednesday, he’s addressed no more than half the crisis: All of California’s environmental measures have been aimed at reducing the demand for energy, and none at slowing down the production of fossil fuel. Supply and demand are two equal halves of this fight; if we don’t recognize that fact we simply will not solve the climate conundrum.

    With his time in elective office winding down, Brown has the rare chance to set an example that truly will never be forgotten: He has it in his power to begin the strategic phase-out of the oil and gas industry. He could simply stop granting new state permits for oil and gas extraction and fossil fuel infrastructure, and instead start setting up a transition to sustainable fuels that would protect the workers, communities and economies that now depend on the industry…
    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-mckibben-brown-phaseout-oil-and-gas-20180411-story.html

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    pat

    11 Apr: Scotsman: Concern over low take up of SNP’s electric vehicle finance scheme
    by Tom Peterkin
    Nicola Sturgeon’s aim for petrol and diesel free motoring has been questioned after it emerged that a finance scheme to buy electric vehicles has been used just 500 times by ordinary motorists.

    The Scottish Government has announced plans to phase out petrol and diesel cars by 2023 and has introduced an electric vehicle loan scheme to encourage drivers to take up environmental motoring.

    Data retrieved by the Scottish Conservatives found that only 214 loan applications were made in the last year for the scheme, which hands out interest free loans of up to £35,000.
    The scheme was launched in 2011 and the first few years of its existence saw a very low take-up with just 12 loans being issued in 2012/13 and six the following year…

    But Conservative shadow environment secretary Donald Cameron said the figures showed Scotland was not on course to comply with its ambition of getting petrol and diesel cars off the road…
    The Tories also questioned the effectiveness of getting taxi drivers on board with the statistics showing there had been just 166 Hackney applications in the past seven years – a figure that was in addition to the 500…
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/concern-over-low-take-up-of-snp-s-electric-vehicle-finance-scheme-1-4721864

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    pat

    12 Apr: CBS: Tesla CEO Elon Musk on Model 3 production problems: “You’ll definitely get your car”
    Tesla CEO Elon Musk knows the future of his electric car company depends on his ability to mass produce quality, affordable cars. But he also admits he’s fallen behind on the production goals for the popular Model 3. On Tuesday, “CBS This Morning” co-host Gayle King asked Musk about the hundreds of thousands of people who put down thousand-dollar deposits and still have not received their cars.

    “Should customers be worried? Should they be worried about what’s happening with their Model 3 and when they will get their Model 3?” King asked Musk.
    “No – it’s best to look at this not in an exact, numerical way, but in a, on a calendar basis….There shouldn’t be a question mark as to whether somebody’s gonna get their car, it’s just, yes, you’ll definitely get your car. It’s gonna be six to nine months longer than expected,” he replied. “It’s a six-to-nine-month time shift, that’s literally it, and three of those months have already passed.”

    Asked if there’s been many cancelled orders by customers frustrated by the long wait, Musk said, “It’s mostly like people cancel because, you know, they just needed a car and we didn’t have a car for them.”

    “But do you feel, Elon Musk, personally a lot of pressure and a big burden on your shoulders because so many people believe in this product and believe in this company because of you?” King asked.
    “Okay. Well, I hope their faith is not misplaced,” he said.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-elon-musk-model-3-production-delays/

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    I wonder just the count, no details, of the thousands of US-DOJ sealed indictments that are for “TREASON” with request of “Death by Firing Squad”? One, several, many; would all be good answers!! Perhaps we have a chance at lawful government! 🙂

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    I think no dismissal nor firings are needed! Both Rosenstein and Mewler are truly in da terlit begging; ‘don’t flush it’! 🙂

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    Serp

    There’s no idea of planning and hasn’t been since the big Australian sell off began in earnest back in the nineties when Victoria got Jeffed.

    The east coast electricity generation schemozzle is entirely owing to federal interference. Whenever another issue arises another quango will be assembled and filled with sinecured blimps purportedly to bring expertise to bear.

    Anyway that’s how it is in Australia now. If you’re not backed by a hedge fund nobody wants to listen to you.

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