JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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“Climate deniers are immediate threat to our children” — Ranting, Tim Flannery admits his “colossal failure”

Like the death throes of a religion…

Tim Flannery, Denialists are a threat to our children, Predators.

I’d like to see the errors bars on that says Jo

Tim Flannery unhinged. What a rant. Apparently people who deny that Earth has a climate are coming to eat his children or something. It must be awful inside his head:

…the climate crisis has now grown so severe that the actions of the denialists have turned predatory: they are now an immediate threat to our children.

After all his predictions went wrong years ago, now he feels like a failure?

No climate report or warning, no political agreement nor technological innovation has altered the ever-upward trajectory of the pollution. This simple fact forces me to look back on my 20 years of climate activism as a colossal failure.

I say, not at all Tim. You were paid to sell carbon credits and industrial renewables and I’m sure Panasonic are very happy.

Flannery and his institutions may never have been funded by Vestas, GE,  HSBCDeutche Bank, Goldman Sachs, BBVA and Citigroup  or Communist China but they’re happy too. I mean they’d like to be happier still, but Flannery did his best. And a lot of feudal bureaucrats and desalination-plant-owners are also glad Flannery came to forecast the end of rain and scare the heck out of all the little kiddies and state premiers.

But Flannery still thinks that his side’s aim was to reduce carbon dioxide, rather than just get rich or fill a spiritual vacuum. No wonder he’s hysterical. It’s kind of touching how he doesn’t realize his backers, patrons and fans were never serious about carbon reduction — they just wanted a job, the dough, or an invite to dinner parties in the right circles. If any of them cared about the climate, they would have demanded nukes.

Sitting at 100% on the screaming dial of doom:

In this age of rapidly melting glaciersterrifying megafires and ever more puissant hurricanes, of acidifying and rising oceans, it is hard to believe that any further prod to climate action is needed.

Mass deaths are predicted to result from, among other causes, disease outbreaksair pollutionmalnutrition and starvationheatwaves, and suicide.

How could he forget the endless droughts and hordes of locusts? (Perhaps Prof Andy Pitman finally explained that droughts were never part of the deal anyhow?).

Tim-Not-an-Economist-Flannery thinks coal need subsidies:

Prime Minister Scott Morrison continues to sing the praises of coal, while members of the government call for subsidies for coal-fired power plants.

When what coal power really needs is for us to get rid of renewables subsidies.

Time for fury, anger and rebellion?

Here’s comes the means-to-an-ends excuses:

How should Australia’s parents deal with those who labour so joyously to create a world in which a large portion of humanity will perish? As I have become ever more furious at the polluters and denialists, I have come to understand they are threatening my children’s well-being as much as anyone who might seek to harm a child.

In the past, many of us have tolerated such pronouncements as the utterings of idiots — in the true, original Greek meaning of the word as one interested only in their own business.

Words have not cut through. Is rebellion the only option?

So he quotes the Extinction Rebellion Declaration of something which says essentially: Democracy is dead and “We hereby declare the bonds of the social contract to be null and void.”

Yes, indeed, voided perhaps when Flannery has paid back the Australian taxpayer for his past salary plus damages (anyone want to buy a desal plant?)

h/t David-of-Cooyal

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"Climate deniers are immediate threat to our children" -- Ranting, Tim Flannery admits his "colossal failure", 9.6 out of 10 based on 89 ratings

214 comments to “Climate deniers are immediate threat to our children” — Ranting, Tim Flannery admits his “colossal failure”

  • #

    “How should Australia’s parents deal with those who labour so joyously to create a world in which a large portion of humanity will perish?”

    Education is the key. Teach those children that the far left rhetoric of ‘saving the world’ is a ploy obfuscating their desire to destroy it.

    580

    • #
      John

      I’m not convinced it’s malicious, I think they’re just hopelessly deluded idealists foolishly paving a road to hell with their good intentions.

      99

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        I’ve got an unused desal plant for sale. Are you interested?

        110

        • #
          John

          Happy to be proven wrong, but I suspect the majority of believers in the climate catastrophe are mistaken as opposed to evil. I suspect Hanlon’s razor applies “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”.

          191

          • #
            TdeF

            I suppose that exonerates Flannery?

            91

            • #
              John

              I’m more talking about the public at large. Flannery is a worry. I really don’t like that comment of his about his opposition being the same as child killers.

              170

          • #

            There can be no doubt that many of the followers of CAGW are deluded into believing that they’re saving the planet. The motivation driving this delusion is what’s evil. Whether or not an individual is in the evil camp depends on whether or not they know or care that their supporting ‘science’ is fundamentally flawed.

            210

            • #
              John

              I think their motivation is wanting to be good people who save the planet. It makes them the ultimate heroes against the ultimate forces of darkness.

              As for them knowing or caring about the actual science, I suspect most don’t. They simply believe they are on the side of science. On the side of truth. Hence all the stupid sound bites: “97% of climate scientists agree”. “100% evidence based”.

              130

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I’m hard put to see good intentions. It looks more like keeping up with the neighbors. Joe makes some more serious complaint than ever before against septics and then the rest are left behind unless they come up with something even worse. Now denialists are ready to boil you children for dinner.

        The struggle for attention through the years has been fierce and getting worse. I only know Flannery through what I read on this blog but he looks like a psychiatrists dream of a patient to me. He’s not the only one either.

        130

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Come to think of it, a few days ago I overheard a group of denialists plotting to lure children to their homes with promises that they could reverse climate change. Imagine that. You can’t be too careful these days. ;-)

          70

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            And another thing — can we get rid of all the title creep. What’s a denialist anyway? I’m still just a plain old sensible man who knows enough to ask for the evidence. You call such people skeptics.

            180

            • #
              TdeF

              Or scientists. If you don’t need proof, you are religious, trusting and have faith. Childish and likely to be roadkill to the many predators out there, especially climatebaggers.

              90

            • #
              theRealUniverse

              The term ‘denialist’ is used to denigrate skeptics. Skeptic is more appropriate anyway.

              70

              • #
                sophocles

                “Denialist” is not even an english word. It’s a “made up” word or a word derived from ignorance of the language. It’s used mainly as a dénigrement of the sceptical by those ignoramuses. It’s actually more descriptive of the ignoramuses who throw it around.

                “Denier” is the defamatory but correct word.

                50

            • #
              Mal

              All true scienctists are sceptics by definition.
              Nothing in science is ever totally settled.

              90

              • #
                TdeF

                Agree with the first bit.

                However Newton’s laws of motion are settled and many other laws, conservation of energy, momentum, mass.

                Sure at near the speed of light, on a scale not encountered in every day life, things do not go in a straight line. At a nuclear level, particles have only a probability of being in one place at any time. But chemistry, engineering, physics have been largely settled for a century. Even the conversion of energy to mass and mass to energy and many people live on nuclear power.

                If a single experiment proved one of them wrong, it would be world news.

                However it has taken total rigor to find what is true. You believe nothing until it is proven. That is why Professor Ridd is so skeptical of the GBR science. Not only is it not reproducible, they do not try. Rumor becomes opinion becomes fact without evidencee.

                We had the same when the IPCC announced 400 million Indians would die of thirst by 2035. They had no evidence whatsoever. It was a throwaway comment from a tour guide about the glaciers retreating, which they were not. This was enough for the IPCC to sex up its annual drama with the outrageous announcement. Eventually and unbelievably they announced it was a typographical error in the report and meant 2350. Absolute rubbish.

                How the IPCC can claim to be a science organization is beyond my understanding. It is a political organization, like the EU and the UN themselves. Yes, they lie. So do most in the Climate Change scam. It’s all about the money. A lot of money.

                110

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Well, I should look first and complain second. Denialist has a dictionary definition. What do you know about anything, Roy?

              It’s too bad that definition hangs the word squarely around the neck of Tim Flannery and every other climate change pusher.

              30

      • #
        george1st:)

        Not malicious ,but brainwashed due to education and lack of awareness into independent thinking.

        30

      • #
        Alice Thermopolis

        “The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” H L Mencken

        60

      • #
        Richard

        The core is evil without a shadow of doubt. It is a vehicle for them to gain power and nothing more, which is why they are happy to silence dissenting voices and abuse the minds of children.

        20

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      This guy seriously needs to see a psychiatrist. Paranoia and delusional. Swept up in his own nonsensical delusion, unable to even look at other alternative views even when presented with undeniable evidence.
      “Climate deniers are immediate threat to our children” is a criminal, insulting and blatantly false statement and wants serious challenging.

      220

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Actually there is more evidence that the converse of “Climate deniers are immediate threat to our children” is true, but us skeptics dont spray it all over the MSM.

        120

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          There should be a fair spray if we get blackouts. The trouble there is that the authorities are doing their damnedest to hide the blackouts from the public view. There’ll be nowhere to hide when factories shut down altogether because they can no longer compete.

          90

    • #
      clive hoskin

      Hey Tim.Hust when are one of your predictions going to come true?Your mate Al the Gorical predicted that there would’nt be any more snow by 2010 and so far just this year,we’ve had record snow.

      20

  • #
    James Murphy

    I think this is a superb own-goal by Flannery. The more unhinged, insulting, and contemptuous he and his ilk are, the more people will stop listening. Thanks Tim, keep it up.

    590

    • #
      J Burns

      The wankery is taking a more desperate, fevered turn.. Buy shares in popcorn.

      260

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Yeah but what ‘ilk’ are these people?, besides the temptation to earn easy money or stroke an ego to throw disgusting uninformed insults at an entire demographic of people to achieve it is just the sort of actions you’d associate with low level felons.

      A tip to Tim & Co I wouldn’t be venturing outside the approved safe spaces of Climate activism to do a genuine Pub Test with your broad based insults, a few nasty comments online is one thing but a room full of real Australians is reality in all its glory.

      What a grub.

      560

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      “Where books are burned, in the end, people will also be burned”

      Heinrich Heine, 1823

      220

    • #
      AndyG55

      Mockery of Flannery is done most often by himself.

      A parody, a farce.

      270

    • #
      cohenite

      Flannery is a dangerous person; he as much as anyone is responsible for the economic damage to this country caused by alarmism and renewables. He literally has blood on his hands from such preventable natural disasters as the Wivenhoe floods and the Black Saturday bushfires. He has profited from these natural disasters as well through government grants to hot rock flim flam technology. Flannery is also arguably nuts:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeNDSeknn_c

      320

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Yep.

        Nuts.

        90

      • #
        glen Michel

        Groan.( One buries one’s face in hands)

        40

      • #

        Thomas Sowell in his book ‘Intellectuals and Society,’ observes how intellectuals from the Humanities Departments of Universities have a growing influence on political policies,despite their narrow experience and despite their disastrous record in predicting and managing society’s ills. Intellectuals divorced from the feedback-constraints of working with matter, unlike yr bridge-builder or industrial chemist, are prone to error but seem unaware of the of the fact that the easiest persons to fool are themselves.

        Sowell calls their confident beliefs that they have mastery of all they survey ‘the Visions of the Anointed.’ These anointed ones, like Paul Ehrlich Joseph Stiglitz et AL, not only do not have to pay the costs for their flawed predictions but they rarely test their assumptions. If you are a guru,says Sowell, there’s no payment for being wrong, so why would intellectuals look at the actual data ? And they don’t!
        https://beththeserf.wordpress.com/2019/09/17/60th-edition-serf-under_ground-journal/

        130

  • #
    J Burns

    The wailing hyperbole has definitely intensified in the last few months, in what seems like a quite coordinated way. I wonder what it means? Are the wheels starting to come off the alarmist wagon? Are previously disinterested academics starting to look into the data? Have they just ‘jumped the shark’ one too many times and beginning to feel a loss of their own credibility? Might they secretly be starting to doubt their own religion? I wonder if the pebbles in the pond are beginning to pile up to the surface..

    380

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    Social Contract: an unwritten document who’s terms and conditions cannot be examined or questioned. Its terms and conditions can be modified without notice or even the slightest due process and are retroactively applied to all members of Society before they were born.

    We are to be bound by the terms and conditions even though they don’t exist in any tangible form which assures we cannot read it and cannot know what it is we are bound to. Our acceptance of the terms and conditions is implied by the fact we were born into the society. We, individually, have absolutely no say in the matter one way or the other.

    We are retroactively bound by the unwritten changes in the terms and conditions. This even though we cannot read them and have not agreed to the changes let alone to the original contract. Further, all benefits are to accrue to the society and none to individual who is bound by it. The benefits will be equitably distributed to the members of society according to their social ranking as determined by the society.

    The fundamental principle of such a contract is “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. With the individual having no say in the matter as to his ability or need.” Every one else has a right to your life but no one has a right to his life.

    280

  • #

    Added this para:
    But Flannery still thinks that his side’s aim was to reduce carbon dioxide, rather than just get rich or fill a spiritual vacuum. No wonder he’s hysterical. It’s kind of touching how he doesn’t realize his backers, patrons and fans were never serious about carbon reduction — they just wanted a job, the dough, or an invite to dinner parties in the right circles. If any of them cared about the climate, they would have demanded nukes.

    601

    • #
      nb

      With an enquiry into nukes under way in Oz one might have expected Tiny Tim to be overjoyed and thoroughly optimistic. But no? One wonders why not. The term ‘social contract’ says it all. ‘Social contract’ has been appropriated by the left as the path to socialism.
      Tiny Tim tiptoes through the watermelons.

      290

  • #

    Yep, it’s about declaring perpetual emergencies and stepping in with irrelevant and hyper-expensive solutions nobody is entitled to question let alone refuse. Actual solutions are not welcome, since they reduce the emergencies and dissipate the drama, despite all the graphic previews and predictions filling the media. (Far fewer people die on Leyte in cyclones after watershed conservation works and better roof-pinning. Can’t have that!)

    Big Green is the Halliburton of the Guardian-perusing classes. Though at least with Halliburton someone gets some use out of the twenty-thousand dollar ‘loo seat in the far off war-zone.

    230

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      And dont forget loss of personal freedoms too…under the “war time powers” sham, all manner of ofious stuff can happen with impunity.

      150

    • #
      joseph

      mosomoso, please don’t use words like Haliburton in the future. It can trigger conspiracy nuts in a big way . . . . .

      10

  • #
    Sean

    How rich is it that Mr. Flannery is worried about his children’s well being. Consider the enormous costs of the climate change schemes and the impact these have on people’s household budgets. Electricity costs double or triple and fuel costs rise. Most people raising young children are just starting out on their career, trying their best to afford a home with good neighborhood schools. Energy costs are often 10% of their expenses and when the prices rise, they end up in fuel poverty. However, the climate “benefits” of emission controls likely won’t be detectable in 50 years. Why are regressive green taxes so acceptable to many on the left?

    250

  • #
    Dave in the States

    So he considers 20 years of climate activism to have been a failure. However, although during that 20 years global co2 emissions have gone up, as well the atmospheric concentration, for whatever reason: no catastrophic warming materialized. Sure there are hurricanes and forest fires, droughts and floods, heat waves and cold snaps, but hasn’t that always been the case. In fact for most of that 20 years there was what is called the Pause. The Pause would have continued unabated had it not been for an El Nino. Also a perfectly normal event.

    The fact that the hypothesis of CAGW has proved wrong should be reason to rejoice.

    270

    • #
      nb

      Indeed. You might think this would provide him with some hope and optimism. But no, just ever escalating doom and misery. A perverse psychology.

      210

    • #
      glen Michel

      A failure only in that total deconstruction of western civilisation has not eventuated. I don’t need to tell anyone here about the seriousness of the situation. This comes from the “Top” and is supported by loyal Myrmidons and the utter stupidity of the masses.

      120

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Dave. I rather doubt that that is what Comrade Tim meant. I see his declaration of failure as a cause for celebration. Despite all his effort, nothing has changed! CO2 is still going up. And the political scene is getting skeptical.

      It seems about six months ago The Pointman declared that the battle is over. While he didn’t say who won, I thought he meant we did. But you couldn’t see it from here in Oz. It appeared to me that he might have seen the Meuller Report’s failure to nail Trump as the turning point.

      We had our own fizzer here, when despite certainty that the socialists would win the federal election in May, they didn’t. And it seems they had all their eggs in that basket.

      Maybe that’s why Tim is so distressed. It looks like he knows he can’t maintain the lie for another three years.

      And he has always got those books to sell.

      50

  • #
    James Poulos

    Why is it that he has recently purchased a beach-side mansion at Manly?

    230

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Flannery quotes. You can’t beat them:

    2005:” In three years we will know whether I’m being alarmist or not, for that’s about how long Sydney’s water supplies will last under the conditions that have prevailed since 1998.”

    https://www.smh.com.au/news/Opinion/Forecast-deteriorates-for-the-dry-country/2005/06/05/1117910183888.html

    2014: “I probably eat too much meat and fly too much.”

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/tim-flannery-a-man-for-all-climates-20140207-3271c.html

    130

  • #
    ivan

    The thing that all the green eco warriors turn a blind eye to is the fact that the only non polluting eco disaster of ‘renewable’ power generation is pumped water storage, all the others are an ecological disaster waiting for our children to clean up.

    Solar panels cannot be successfully recycled without making more pollution they can only be consigned to landfill.

    Wind turbines start with an ecological disaster from the manufacture of their rare earth magnets and go on to the blades which can only be cut up for landfill, oh, and don’t forget the several hundred tons of concrete for their bases.

    These are the things we need to emphasise to the general public and the politicians. In Australia what is going to happen in 15 to 20 years time when all the rooftop solar needs to be replaced? Is someone going to dig a deep hole somewhere in the outback and burry them there? I doubt the Chinese will want then especially when the head of one of their largest recycling plants sees the only way to deal with them is to plant them im landfill.

    140

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    h/t David-of-Cooyal

    Thanks David for “provoking” this cutting post.

    Thanks Jo for the writing that illuminates the falseness of the CO2 induced Global Warming Vehicle that’s now just beginning to get stuck in the mud of reality.

    It’s not over yet, there are still a great many Renewables projects in progress and more money to be drained from the public purse, but the tide is turning.

    I hope that I live to see the day when the paying public worldwide becomes aware of the mountains of defunct Renewables Generators that have to be scrapped, decommissioned and made safe.

    Just one item that is set to cause tangible grief is the rooftop solar mess. Good luck with cleaning all that up and still keeping the roof watertight.

    Professeur Flannery may well go down in Australian history; and I do mean down.

    KK

    150

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks for the thought KK,
      But I reckon all our thanks should go to Jo. She’s shown the bravery I lacked (and still do) to have read all his junk. And then been able to respond to it. I only got as far as being disgusted.
      Thanks again Jo.
      Cheers
      Dave B

      120

  • #
    Ken Stewart

    Off topic slightly, but Jo I’m sure you saw this too:

    https://theconversation.com/climate-change-deniers-are-dangerous-they-dont-deserve-a-place-on-our-site-123164

    The Conversation not too keen on debate, argument, criticism, or freedom of speech. But we already knew that.

    Ken S

    180

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Yep…. it appears that if you try and be critical of anything left wing your posts seem to mysteriosly vanish…….

      Ah freedom of speech…dontcha love it….

      130

    • #
      nb

      Name change: ‘The Versation’

      60

    • #
      glen Michel

      Misha Ketchell is what his beard tells us. The creep of leftist fascism.

      50

    • #
      truth

      Hateweek’s finally here!

      Big Brother decrees..

      Finally the purge and down the memory hole with oldspeak…newspeak needs space.

      Dob in the oldthinker-they must be unpersoned.

      Friday belongs to the youthleague…proles get lost.

      How proud Misha and Molly are of their totalitarian edict!

      It says really terrible and cautionary things about the naivety and childlike…unevolved brutality of those who would rule the world.

      Banality of evil.

      It’s all been seen before.

      60

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Surely it’s just a coincidence –
        “Facebook has been using real-life first-person [ ] footage to develop artificial intelligence that can more effectively auto-block the type of video that was livestreamed [for the Ides of March psy-op]… Today, Facebook announced it would introduce the same initiative in Australia, where the alleged Christchurch [ ] was a citizen, and Indonesia”.

        I’m old enough now to know ‘It’s all been seen before‘.

        10

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      “Not only will we be removing their comments, we’ll be locking their accounts.”

      This is war!

      In time The Conservation will become a historical record of the scholastic scene of our time. And they will have nowhere to hide!

      Don’t be disappointed if The Conservation moderates your comment and refuses to publish it. They have recorded it, presumably with a mind to one day raising it against you. But there will come a day it will be raised against them, as what they refused to publish.

      30

  • #
    Ruairi

    An alarmist high priest on fire,
    From his pulpit condemns the denier,
    In a self-righteous rant,
    Of the worst climate cant,
    Being wont to preach to the choir.

    200

  • #
    Zigmaster

    As long as Tim Flannery is being portrayed as the people’s champion we are winning. His track record and climate credentials speak for themselves. The crazier the prophets sound the sooner the normal punter will realise that these warmist zealots are unhinged and delusional . There is only one side of this debate that is looking after the worlds children and it ain’t the warmists whose constant stream of propaganda is creating a whole generation of traumatised youth.

    140

    • #
      Serp

      Surely, as adults do, most kids simply tune out when the CAGW vanguard does its daily round of tiresome hysteria; obviously had it been true we should have been dead some years back –yawn!

      40

  • #
    nb

    I look forward to the day the youth realise what a pup they are being sold.

    140

  • #
    Serge Wright

    This article was posted on the The Conversation and is certainly a call to arms by the left. It’s becoming obvious after the last election where the public rejected their calls to de-industrialise, that the left now want to move the protest to the physical domain. In my opinion this is an incitement to violence and we can therefore expect violence to follow.

    120

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I hope the Left arent so stupid to take on the sleeping bulk of the right-minded population who just want to be left alone.

      Its bad enough having to deal with huge cost of living and the constant howl of the PC stupidity in the MSM every day and messing with kids heads about which bathroom to use.

      Australians can be hugely effective dealing with irritants, and often utilize the required resolve and efficiency.

      50

      • #
        Serp

        They are that stupid OriginalSteve but largely gutless; it’s only the fringe nutters who’re up for physical confrontation.

        20

  • #
  • #
    robert forbes

    Tim, how many kids have you had since you realised that the worlds population was in danger of being wiped out ?
    seems pretty stupid to doom even more kids to such an awful life and horrible death.

    80

  • #
    Al Jones

    Writers at The Onion shrug helplessly, pack up their belongings and go home.

    90

  • #
    David Maddison

    Rising numbers of children are being treated for “eco-anxiety”, experts have said, as they warn parents against “terrifying” their youngsters with talk of climate catastrophe.

    Protests by groups such as Extinction Rebellion, the recent fires in the Amazon and apocalyptic warnings by the teenage activist Greta Thunberg have prompted a “tsunami” of young people seeking help.

    A group of psychologists working with the University of Bath says it is receiving a growing volume of enquiries from teachers, doctors and therapists unable to cope.

    The Climate Psychology Alliance (CPA) told The Daily Telegraph some children complaining of eco-anxiety have even been given psychiatric drugs.

    See link for rest.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/09/15/parents-told-not-terrify-children-climate-change-rising-numbers/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw&fbclid=IwAR3jtbs0H6jHfwMwtNdTcLw-FjNBe9moWqBofYr-ZO19PyGQNqTEsNh299M

    20

  • #
    el gordo

    Josh a climate skeptic?

    ‘The former environment minister Josh Frydenberg went against the advice of his departmental experts when he blocked two wind turbines on Lord Howe Island in 2017, consigning the world-heritage listed island to relying on diesel fuel for the bulk of its electricity.’ Guardian

    90

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      el gordo:

      Even with wind turbines they would STILL have to rely on diesel fuel for most of their electricity.
      And who would pay for that “cheap electricity”?

      And there is the little matter of conservation on the Island.

      50

    • #
      David Maddison

      Installing windmills on the island would cause shocking visual and infrasound pollution and the island would still require diesel fuel if they wanted a continuous rather than intermittent electricity supply.

      30

  • #
    Antoine D'Arche

    “Words have not cut through. Is rebellion the only option?”
    So he wants to come after the “denialists”? Prosecute or persecute, whatever.
    Go for it Tim. I’m your huckleberry

    70

  • #
    Drapetomania

    Is he still getting his diesel 4wd serviced at his local mechanics? :)
    That was hilarious when that leaked out in the media a few years ago.
    He would have tax payer subsidised token solar panels on his roof.
    And done nothing more “to save the children”.
    I know people who live off the grid 100% and grow their own food and they recognise this whole thing as a scam.

    90

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Didn’t flannel just buy a beach house ?

    50

  • #
    Bruce of Newcastle

    If he’s failed so terribly he should return all that money that he was paid to promote warmenism.

    120

  • #
    Robber

    Well worth a read:
    Why today’s renewables cannot power modern civilization.
    Wind and solar are inherently intermittent means for power generation. They only work when the wind blows or the sun shines. We need to account for the cost of batteries or the cost of conventional power as backup for wind and solar when comparing the cost of power.
    The world today is inhabited by close to 8 billion people and we feed our hunger for power to almost 80% with hydrocarbons (coal, gas, oil). Wind and solar make up an estimated 2% of 2017 primary energy, the remainder largely comes from nuclear, hydro and some biomass.
    Germany’s installed wind and solar capacity by the end of 2018 was 59 GW for wind and 46 GW for solar or 51% of total German capacity; Germany’s wind and solar share was 17% for electricity and only 4.6% for primary power in 2018. Global prices for power – power in Germany is the most expensive.

    Carbon neutral by 2050? Tell ‘em the’re dreamin’. But it’s the vibe.

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      Lance

      Good article. Further, solar panels and wind choppers are resource limited. The silver for panels and the rare earths needed at worldwide grid scale do not exist. Replacing just the US baseload grid with solar would require 6 to 7 times the total known world reserves of silver and would take 930 years if the panels could be manufactured, delivered, installed and integrated at the rate of 1 sq. meter per second.

      Nuclear is non carbon, but there is only one place that makes the pressure vessel forgings. Japan. Limited to 12 forgings per year. US grid is 1000 Gw basically. Replacing that with twin 1 Gw nuke plants would require some 900 additional forgings. That’s the next ~ 100 yrs of output from Japan.

      Solar and wind create other instabilities. The thermal plant automatic voltage regulators were never designed to have a higher voltage downstream as is the case when massive amounts of solar/wind force their way onto the grid.

      The “solutions” offered by the greens are unworkable at grid scale. The resources to build the devices, install them, etc, do not exist in the quantity necessary to meet their claimed goals. Transmission lines and distribution systems don’t exist to carry the power if EVs are included. EV loads at the scale claimed necessary would require a doubling of total grid capacity even if charge times of 24 hrs are used. An 8 hour charge time to fully replace all IC transportation would require a grid of some 4 times existing capacity.

      None of this is possible, no matter who wants it or why. It doesn’t matter if the warmists are correct or not. These energy goals are simply not attainable without crashing world economies.

      Some Economic truisms: That which cannot be paid, will not be paid. That which cannot be done will not be done.

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        Lance,

        Just how do you explain ‘Engineering’ to a general populace who think engineering is how to use their new mobile phone?

        They don’t want to know any of this, and therein lies the source of the problem. The proponents of renewable power know that, and so they can get away with saying whatever they want to say, safe in the knowledge that they will never be held to account.

        Tony.

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        • #
          Lance

          Well, Mr. Tony, I’m not sure at all that an entire populace can be educated on grid scale power Engineering.

          But.

          I am sure they would understand this:

          If you like reliable power, a continuing paycheck, food, water, sanitation, air cons, health care, a pension, avoidance of civil war and insurrection, and to keep your earned property, then all of that is at risk if impossible schemes are allowed to happen.

          Ask your representatives to guarantee in writing, publicly, on the record, their own personal assets, their pensions, and their positions, without limitation, should energy prices increase, industry shut down, jobs be lost, or blackouts occur, upon pain of imprisonment, should their claims come to naught. Ie, “You say you can do it. Now show me. But with Your Skin in the Game”.

          Engineering is how trained people apply physical laws, logic, analysis, experience, and imagination, to make real the things that society wants or needs.

          Politics is how good people become liars and thieves by applying propaganda and deception to enrich themselves at the expense of the people who provided them the power to do so.

          I’m supposing the general populace would be more concerned if they were reminded of how their costs have risen, their jobs have decreased in opportunity and stability, and how the rare blackouts have become more common.

          If the blighters can’t see their own lives being chipped away, then I suppose the best answer is to let the grid crash sooner than later so the folly becomes real and immediate in a personal way. Barring that, it appears bleak.

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          • #
            Lance

            From a different view, there’s money to be made from the oddsmakers via betting on blackout and job loss frequency and stability. Call it a game of craps. One may bet For or Against the Player or the House.

            The Engineers might become quite wealthy.

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              robert rosicka

              Lance and Tony I have just received this letter from Ausnet here in Victoriastan, what they’re saying is they can’t predict hot summer days but during summer when it’s hot we may lose power because the grid struggles to cope .
              Are they trying to soften us up for the blackouts being predicted this summer and what twit actually proof read the letter .

              https://ausnetservicescc.au.whispir.com/portal/richmessage/qROaIxKM/v.prtl

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              • #
                Lance

                Yes. Essentially, they are saying “You’re on your own, we guarantee Nothing”.

                How quaint. They absolutely know the climate in 100 yrs hence, but have no clue about the current year.

                Ausnet is distancing themselves from what they know is coming.

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                Serp

                Not to mention the “Important reminder about life support equipment” flyer which is included with gas and electricity bills which appears to suggest that the power companies, aware of the imminent Victorian black condition, are developing a database of addresses at which an extended power outage is an actual threat to life. More here: energyaustralia.com.au/lifesupport

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          Lance

          There is a way to make things “hot up”.

          Petition for a change in contract terms. Require the BirdChopper and Solar crowd to post Cash Bond in advance of construction, for the demolition, remediation, and recycling, of their installation at “end of life” or “end of Service” whichever comes first. That would remove a good portion of their hidden profits from the game.

          Perhaps, require the “providers” to make restitution to those who sustain damages from overvoltage or harmonic frequency damages wherever inverted power is injected up to and including the first substation.

          Perhaps require the thermal generators be compensated for costs associated with replacing automatic voltage regulators and tap changers to accommodate the effects of high voltage downstream injection of power.

          Require contracts specify that costs associated with additional transmission lines, changes to existing distribution lines and switchgear and costs of revised protective relaying be borne by the “new providers”.

          Require that costs associated with historically abnormal blackouts/brownouts be borne by the new providers to include fuel, labor, maintenance, overhead, downtime, and equipment.

          In other words, make the greens pay for the damages they cause and bill it to the solar/wind providers. In the contract. In advance of project approval.

          After all, they claim such things don’t really exist. Until they do.

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        theRealUniverse

        I dont agree that only Japan can make the pressure vessels. China and Russia make them. In fact the Russian nuclear power plants are supposed to be the best in the business. They also have a ‘portable’ nuclear power plant to be used while a permanent one is being constructed. Japans economy is also very down.

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    Philip of Taos

    The fact is nobody would think the climate was warming without the Alarmist trying to scare people, Less than 1 degree in 150 years, coming out of the little ice age. How is that not natural.

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      PeterS

      Our leaders appear to believe in the alarmist nonsense. Many are actually pushing the climate emergency agenda, both n the LNP and big business. So what hope is there?

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      Serp

      Not one in a thousand people has heard of the Little Ice Age Philip of Taos, our politicians least of all.

      The principal enemy is the MSM which assiduously buries any glimmer of reason beneath its daily avalanche of IPCC propaganda.

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    David Maddison

    I have another similar article above stuck in moderation….

    A growing number of children are being treated for an overwhelming terror of “environmental doom” as climate alarmists spread fears of an impending climate disaster, the Daily Telegraph has reported.

    “Protests by groups such as Extinction Rebellion, the recent fires in the Amazon and apocalyptic warnings by the teenage activist Greta Thunberg have prompted a ‘tsunami’ of young people seeking help,” the Telegraph’s science correspondent reported Monday.

    “A lot of parents are coming into therapy asking for help with the children and it has escalated a lot this summer,” said psychotherapist Caroline Hickman of the Climate Psychology Alliance (CPA).

    “The symptoms are the same [as clinical anxiety], the feelings are the same, but the cause is different,” she said. “The fear is of environmental doom — that we’re all going to die.”

    See link for rest.

    https://climatechangedispatch.com/kids-treatment-climate-anxiety/

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Hilarious.

    The day Tim Flim Flammery publicly admits he’s a failure, the east coast cops a bucketing, just to underline the word ‘failure’ …

    https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/second-front-will-see-wet-conditions-persist-across-southern-and-eastern-australia/news-story/7cf946cfdbb944c05c7e8ba52c7663f0

    h/t: zanetticartoons: https://twitter.com/ZanettiCartoons/status/1173930380249845761

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    • #
      Greg in NZ

      The day Flammery publicly admits he’s a COLOSSAL failure –

      rain, snow, surf, more rain – an immediate threat to our children? Hysterical (and bald).

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    TdeF

    Then the $93Million the Federal Labor government invested in his spruiking for the South Australian ‘Hot Rocks’ scheme. As Flannery said on television “the technology is straight forward”. Spoken as a true expert in dead kangaroos. They lost the lot, our $93million and the investors’. Consider the board members were University academics paid $400,000 a year each to advice on the failure. The money went quickly. With such expert advice, how could anything go wrong? Academics advising academics with spruiking by Tim Flannery and our cash, with Julia Gillard’s largesse and expertise.
    Everyone was in the cash and having fun but the poor taxpayer.

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      robert rosicka

      Tdef poor flannel had a 10% stake in that scam .

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        TdeF

        Did he? I knew some shares but 10%?

        The Federal government tipped in $93million and the shareholders perhaps $40million and perhaps SA as well, so you have to wonder how he came by 10% or more than $13.3 million? The AISC would love to know he was spruiking shares in a failed company while an insider and not paying for the shares. He was professionally advising investors that there was no ‘technical’ problem. At the very least, that’s unethical for what was obviously a very risky venture.

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        • #
          robert rosicka

          Just going by what Bolt said last night .

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            robert rosicka

            I believe he had a 10% stake in the company involved and all the money was spent and wasted and somewhere along the line he would have got a cut .
            But he’s not the first climate activist to try this think of Turdball junior and Hewson .

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      Serp

      It was improperly scoped at the outset since nobody had costed in the poles and wires to transmit power from such a remote site. Had it succeeded then they’d have had a true stranded asset with no way of connecting it to the grid.

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    PeterS

    Well PM Morrison appears to agree with the climate change alarmists like Flannery. After all why hasn’t we pulled out of the Paris Agreement? We are attacking the wrong people. We need our leaders of governments and big business to stop kowtowing or even going as far as to believe in the climate emergency. We are being lead over the cliff and it appears the public in general don’t give a damn.

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    • #
      Chad

      Morrison wont do anything because he is a “POLITICIAN” whose primary objective is to remain in government by maximise apearing to appeal to the majority of voters most of the time.

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      • #
        PeterS

        Then we are doomed if the majority hold to that “thinking” for too long. Some would argue it’s already too late to change and so we simply have to go through the pain of a reset. Time will tell if that’s the case. I suspect it is.

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      Serp

      No politician of any stripe will take on the bogeyman of sovereign risk which has been escalated by the disproportionate gargantuan uncontrolled and, incredibly, ongoing investment in wind in Australia; these people don’t know the term “pull up” or “fair go”.

      Turnbull ushered it in and made sure his boy was in on the ground floor but nobody could have predicted the extent of the investments. As Peter Costello remarked some years ago when asked if the Future Fund invested in renewables, “the returns are too big to ignore” –so everybody is in it, all our super funds (thanks Greg Combet) and any number of overseas interests.

      Next these vested interests will be looking to augment the value of the generation certificates and perpetuating the scheme, after all it’s only the dumb electricity consumers who are paying for it and there’s millions of them to spread the load.

      How this will end is beyond me to guess but experience suggests we’ll soon be hearing the “too big to fail” mantra.

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    TdeF

    And after years of horrific projections of rapid sea rise, is he still living on the water’s edge on an island in the mouth of the Hunter River in NSW? I suppose the purchase price would have been severely depressed by the endless predictions of water Armageddon. However twenty years later he could speak first hand about how his beach is underwater, except nothing has changed. Twenty years of false predictions on which he made fame and profit.

    He even joined as an expert advising Neil Oliver on Coast Australia, which is why I refused to watch it.

    To now claim the ‘Denialists’ are coming to eat his children is typical Flannery self aggrandisement and attention seeking. Flannery the victim. Send money.

    So why was really good climate scientist Dr. Murry Selby so disgracefully fired from Macquarie University, his credit cards cancelled, his job stripped, his return airfare cancelled when he gave a lecture rubbishing man made Global Warming, while Tim Flannery was there?

    Flannery the victim. Pull the other leg.

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    TdeF

    At school Tim Flannery was a failure at mathematics and science generally, but he managed a degree in English at La Trobe University, a new university which would accept anyone, even Flannery.

    Now Flannery is one of a generation of faux scientists who pontificate and thump the rostrum about science and meteorology and engineering and chemistry and computer modelling and mathematical modelling and even nuclear energy, subjects on which they know absolutely nothing. Except that he calls himself a scientist. Australian of the Year. Former Chief Climate Commissioner who beggared Australia for French desalination plants which over time will cost everyone $100Billion.

    That is the problem, the cloak of competence and respectibility bestowed on a science failure. If the faux universities of Australia keep handing out thousands of faux PhDs at this rate, they will need to keep the prefix Dr. for people who actually are scientists and experts in their fields or preferably for scientists the title DSc for more than an honorary title for a lifetime’s service in real science, not eco activism.

    No, being a lifetime failure does not entitle Tim Flannery to a DSc. But he will try. And the indigenous University of Yuwillimbum based in Marble Bar will give him one.

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      theRealUniverse

      ‘If the faux universities of Australia keep handing out thousands of faux PhDs’ Thats whats happening. To easy to get one, dont do any original work. Publish no papers or only as a joint contributor, then spout on about fields they know nothing about because they are a Dr.
      Very correct TdeF about the DSc. One of my lecturers was a DSc in nuclear.

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  • #
    TdeF

    Andrew Bolt is furious.

    “Tim Flannery grows even more shrill and abusive, now claiming I am a “predator” wanting to harm children. So what should I call a climate alarmist who misrepresents experts, misstates science, makes wild predictions that don’t come true, urges us to waste billions on dud schemes and now frightens children with claims that 8 billion of us face “mass deaths”? ”

    Tim has lost it completely. Good.

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    • #
      Greebo

      Bolt has every right to be furious. If I were him I’d sue. Not for monetary reasons, although that might be nice, but to have Flannery repeat his claims under the scrutiny of law and evidence…. I probably wouldn’t choose a Court in Victoria though…….. Or SA.

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    pat

    Flannery trying to deflect from allegations the CAGW mob is abusing children, by claiming Greta & other children are “climate” saviours, encouraging children to abandon their class-rooms, and indoctrinating them into the idea that “climate” science is settled. The Conversation and the ABC publishes him, despite him being wrong, wrong, and wrong again.

    as has been posted, The Conversation’s Misha Ketchell is now boasting about ***”our” site’s new policy (bit like theirABC?):

    17 Sept: The Conversation: Misha Ketchell: Climate change deniers are dangerous – they don’t deserve a place on “our” site
    That’s why the editorial team in Australia is implementing a zero-tolerance approach to moderating climate change deniers, and sceptics. Not only will we be removing their comments, we’ll be locking their accounts…

    the piece states:

    “The Conversation Australia has also joined more than 170 other media outlets in an initiative called Covering Climate Now, co-founded by the Columbia Journalism Review and The Nation. The idea is to provide a single week of dedicated high quality coverage of climate change ahead of the United Nations Climate Action Summit in New York on September 23.”

    as I posted on jo’s recent Midweek Unthreaded, it’s allegedly now 250 news outlets!

    15 Sept: HowStuffWorks.com: What’s the Difference Between Global Warming and Climate Change?
    by Mark Mancini
    (AT BOTTOM: This story is part of Covering Climate Now, a global collaboration of more than ***250 news outlets to strengthen coverage of the climate story)
    The evidence is overwhelming: Greenhouse gas emissions (and other human activities) are radically transforming the planet on which we live…
    https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/difference-between-global-warming-and-climate-change.htm

    The Conversation Australia: Team & Boards:
    Misha Ketchell, Editor & Executive Director
    In previous roles he was a reporter at The Age, founding editor of The Big Issue Australia and editor of Crikey, The Reader and The Melbourne Weekly. He also spent several years at the ABC where he was a TV producer on Media Watch and The 7:30 Report and an editor on The Drum…
    Peter Martin, Section Editor, Business and Economy
    A former Commonwealth Treasury official, he has worked as economics correspondent for the ABC, as economics editor of The Age, and as host of The Economists on ABC RN…
    Emil Jeyaratnam, Data + Interactives Editor
    Emil has a background in documentary post-production and has credits on documentaries for the ABC, SBS, and BBC, amongst others…
    https://theconversation.com/au/team

    LinkedIn: Misha Ketchell
    While at the ABC has also worked for The 7:30 Report (as it was then) and on The Drum.
    Researcher and Producer, Media Watch, ABC TV, Jan 2007 – Dec 2010 4 years
    Crikey, Editor, Nov 2004 – Dec 2006

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      Bill in Oz

      Pat do you ever come away from these searches of the the dopey’ Conversation’ feeling contaminated ?

      With all the things you find you could start a new lookalike called “The Propaganda” ?

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      Serp

      Don’t let a theconversation hero into your house unless you’re prepared to have your bookshelves ransacked and any suspect volumes incinerated.

      I remember when it was launched; all that faux high mindedness which concealed a sort of Stasi ethos which is now out in the open.

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    pat

    yesterday 4RPH (Radio Print Handicapped Network) community radio station in Brisbane finally stopped repeating – for at least a week – the same program that included the segment “Extinction Rebellion Disrupts Princes Bridge” & returned to broadcasting the daily programs they’d been ignoring. the show they returned with includes:

    AUDIO: 4min42sec: 17 Sept: The Wire: Opposition to nuclear power as public submissions close
    Produced By Daniel Butler
    Featured in story:
    ***Dave Sweeney, Anti-Nuclear Campaigner, Australian Conservation Foundation
    Aunty Sue Haseldine, Honorary President, Australian Nuclear Free Alliance
    A raft of community groups have united to express their opposition to nuclear power.
    Public submissions to the federal parliamentary inquiry into nuclear power closed yesterday.
    Advocates(?) say Indigenous groups are disproportionately affected, and that the government is distracting from investment in renewables.
    http://thewire.org.au/story/opposition-to-nuclear-power-as-public-submissions-close/

    ***from the Dave SweeneyACF contributions (paraphrasing closely):

    - it’s become a little bit of a cause celebre with the harder right or the more fringe elements of some of the political parties. it’s also a really important and significant distractor from the absence of meaningful, effective, considered & credible responses to real climate & energy issues…

    collectively, we can push & build an expectation in the community that this is beyond partisan politics or points scoring. this is a matter of economic, environmental &, indeed, human health, existential aspects of those things & we can move on with where we need to get to, which is a renewable energy future. -

    ON THE BOARD OF 4RPH:

    Wikipedia: Spencer Howson
    He was the host of Breakfast on 612 ABC Brisbane and when he resigned he had worked for the ABC for 25 years…
    Spencer’s first radio experience was at Brisbane community station 4RPH, part of the Australia-wide Radio Print Handicapped Network, from 1990 to 1993. In 1991, at the age of 19, Spencer was elected Vice President of the 4RPH board of directors. After an absence of 26 years, he returned to the 4RPH board in February 2019…

    PRODUCER AT THE WIRE – Annie Hastwell:

    Mar 2018: Community Broadcasting Assocn of Australia: WEBINAR: How to pitch your story to a national current affairs program – Wednesday, 18 April 2018
    Presented by: The Wire’s ***Annie Hastwell and Sarah Martin
    Annie Hastwell is a founding producer and Adelaide presenter of The Wire. She is a former ABC Radio presenter and producer, in Darwin and Adelaide, and now freelance radio features producer for ABC Radio National and Monocle24 in the UK. She also works as consultant journalist to the Australian Science Media Centre, and has written regularly for magazines and ABC Science Online…
    https://www.cbaa.org.au/article/upcoming-webinar-how-pitch-your-story-national-current-affairs-program-wednesday-18-april

    irrelevant piece, but just to show Hastwell is still featuring on theirABC:

    14 Sept: ABC Blueprint for Living: Jonathan Green: Adelaide Market 150 years on
    Repeated: Monday 1am, Sunday 4am
    Produced AND presented by Annie Hastwell

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      pat

      wonder how theirABC, theirTheConversation, theirTheWire, their4RPH, etc would feel about the following by prog left darling, ex-Roxy Music, Brian Eno’s position on nuclear, posted on (Talking Heads founder) David Byrne’s website, Reasons to be Cheerful?

      Undated: Reasons to be Cheerful: Brian Eno: The Necessity of Nuclear
      ENO: After reading David Byrne’s article suggesting that nuclear power is too risky to be a part of our green energy evolution, I had a few thoughts to share.

      DAVID BYRNE: My friend and frequent collaborator, Brian Eno, read my piece about the encouraging rise in divestment from fossil fuels and took issue with my concerns regarding the safety of nuclear power. His argument is a good one — I, too, have read that nuclear is the only hope we currently have of meeting our energy needs while ending fossil fuel use. Wind and solar are great (and have become financially competitive), but obviously can’t work everywhere, and batteries and other forms of energy storage are still an issue. Brian reached out to his friend Stewart Brand (Whole Earth Catalogue, The Long Now Foundation) who has been an advocate for nuclear for a while now. I may still have concerns about nuclear and safety, but hear them out.

      ENO: You might know the name George Monbiot. He’s our most famous and probably most clear-sighted environmentalist. He writes for the Guardian and I never miss his column. He was virulently anti-nuke for years — until Fukushima in fact. When that happened, he changed his mind. He said something like: Fukushima was the ultimate horror story in nuclear accidents — an ancient reactor built in a bad location, poorly maintained and a series of maintenance errors. It was the worst accident imaginable. And the result? Not a single fatality from the nuclear meltdown (it was the flooding that killed people) and many lessons learned. If this was the worst that can happen (he said), then I’m pro-nuclear.

      He received a lot of hate mail as a result of his very courageous change of direction, but I think he was right. Historically there have been almost no fatalities from nuclear power generation compared to the incalculable damage wrought by fossil fuels.
      His position, and mine, was that the only non-fossil way we have, as things stand, of meeting our energy needs realistically is with nuclear…

      All this was anticipated and well-argued in Stewart Brand’s excellent Whole Earth Discipline (LINK). There’s also a great film called Pandora’s Promise (LINK), by another ex-anti-nuker, in which the argument is well laid out. The film features several others who’ve changed their minds about this. It’s worth seeing…READ ON
      https://reasonstobecheerful.world/divest-update/

      nuclear advocate, Michael Shellenberger, is referenced later in the article, but the article is poorly laid out, so it’s difficult to excerpt.

      reminder:

      LinkedIn: Will Doig, Editor at ***Reasons to be Cheerful, New York – Apr 2019 – Present
      Senior Editor
      ***Open Society Foundations – Nov 2014 – Feb 2017 (details)
      https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-doig-68796b17

      Doig & Byrne’s brand-new website were recently given some PR by theirABC on RN’s “Extra”, when he was interviewed by Julian Morrow (The Chaser). impression given was this was a website with form, yet it had only existed for a few weeks.

      meanwhile, Jo will never be part of this CAGW media cabal.

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        TdeF

        The real problem with nuclear power based on Uranium is that we do not have much of it. If we switched to Uranium tomorrow it would run out as fast as oil. The only solution is plutonium, with a lethal does of 1 picogram, the most deadly material on the planet. Also suitable for suitcase sized nuclear weapons, so the switch to plutonium in breeder reactors would likely end badly for humanity.

        There are two hopes. Plentiful Thorium (India and Australia) and plentiful deuterium from seawater for fusion. However with $1,500,000,000,000 a year going into useless windmills and solar panels, the world is in real trouble. Not from Global Warming, but from the rapid end to fossil fuels. And if you do not have fossil fuels, how are you going to make windmills and solar panels? And without coal, how are you going to have metals?

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          Graeme No.3

          Thorium can be used in most nuclear processes and would extend the lifetime of uranium. Also note that well over 90% of uranium isn’t used in current processes (one of the reasons the US military used ‘depleted uranium’ in their shells.
          There are several newer methods of nuclear being trialled and within 20 or 30 years we will be able to choose one (or more) of the best. In the meantime we have plenty of coal (as does the UK with over a billion tons under the North Sea that they don’t intend mining, as they have plenty on land e.g. the recent coal mine in Cumbria).

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            TdeF

            The real value of Thoriuim is that is 100% consumable, unlike the 2% of Uranium 235 and 98% of useless Uranium 238.
            That means there is at least 50x as much. Then it cannot explode on its own, so nuclear reactors are not atomic bombs waiting for terrorists. Nor is raw refined thorium much use to terrorists.

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          Another Ian

          TdeF

          For really lethal doses have a look at polonium

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            TdeF

            True, but properly distributed one gram of plutonium would kill a million million million people. We only have 7 million million. It’s all about distribution. Polonium was the one use by the KGB in their umbrella assassination in London, the poison tipped umbrella to the leg. Russians learned from James Bond. Maybe they thought the gadgets were real?

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          pat

          TdeF -

          btw I’m not a nuclear advocate. I’m agnostic. but it’s interesting how the CAGW RE mob completely ignore the nuclear advocacy of James Hansen, George Monbiot and others they believe are on the same team.

          coal is king.

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    thingadonta

    Flannery has made a career out of exaggeration and hyperbole. Nothing new here. People like that tend to get worse over time, as their ability to detect their own distortions gets smothered by self righteousness and their increasing tendency to choose to not engage in interactive feedback. Expect Flannery to just get worse, just like an old homeless man raging about the end of civilisation, as a means to blame everyone and everything except himself for his failures.

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    Ross

    I think the argument against the Flannerys of this world should kept to the basics.

    For example ask them to provide evidence that CO2 rises before temperature increases when the empirical evidence shows the opposite (Vostock ice core and two other ice core studies done with northern hemisphere ice cores for different time periods in history).

    I did not realise until I listened to Leighton Smith’s podcast discussion with Dr Tim Ball ( which I linked the other day ) that the terms of reference for the IPCC says consideration should only be given to CO2′s effects and not any natural climatic effects –sun , clouds etc. With that caveat how are we going get the right picture. Ball explained that like most Commissions of Inquiry the terms of reference are written in a way that gives a predetermined outcome.

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    John

    “…they are threatening my children’s well-being as much as anyone who might seek to harm a child…”

    This is really scary rhetoric.

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      Terry

      “…they are threatening my children’s well-being as much as anyone who might seek to harm a child…”

      And what have the alarmists been doing for decades, without shame and unapologetically, by unnecessarily increasing the cost of electricity, if not “threatening my children’s well-being as much as anyone who might seek to harm a child…”

      Remember this little gem as an insight into the heart of an alarmist (totalitarian)?
      https://vimeo.com/15480412

      What kind of derangement causes one to lob very large boulders onto one’s very own poorly constructed glass house?

      Totally nuts!

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        Greg in NZ

        3% Crock, 97% BS – Totally Nuts!

        My day-to-day chats with people, from all sorts of backgrounds and nationalities, is running 50:50 on Alarmism v Bollocks (or Media v Reality). I can’t believe you fellas paid for this nutbar!

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    Bulldust

    Places in the US are seeing the return of medieval diseases, and potentially the Black Death (bubonic plague). People in the know are aware that this is caused by the massive influx of illegal immigrants flooding parts of the country, particularly sanctuary cities in California. The associated homelessness and sanitary breakdowns is leading to an increase in rat populations … it is easy enough to see the direct chain of causality.

    Here’s how they will spin it. The rise of disease is caused by climate change. If you point out that it is the massive numbers of illegal immigrants as described above, they will say that is climate change as well, because they are “climate refugees.” You can’t win arguing with a zealot. There is no point even trying. Just wait for the sane, silent majority (about 70% of the population according to polls in the US) to drift over to your side of politics as the increasingly extreme left eats its own. The ouroboros could take lessons from the Democrats right now…

    Australia is simply a little behind the US (and that’s a good thing) when it comes to progressive culture. The identity politics that has consumed the left in the US is gradually making its way into Australian politics now.

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    Geoff

    The Conversation has now declared war on sceptics.

    Misha Ketchell – Executive Director of the Conversation (or is it Non-versation) goes into full-on rant mode

    “At The Conversation Australia we’ve recently vowed to improve our climate change coverage, and part of that means moderating comments with a similar degree of rigour.
    Once upon a time, we might have viewed climate sceptics as merely frustrating. We relied on other commenters and authors to rebut sceptics and deniers, which often lead to endless back and forth.

    But it’s 2019, and now we know better. Climate change deniers, and those shamelessly peddling pseudoscience and misinformation, are perpetuating ideas that will ultimately destroy the planet. As a publisher, giving them a voice on our site contributes to a stalled public discourse.

    That’s why the editorial team in Australia is implementing a zero-tolerance approach to moderating climate change deniers, and sceptics. Not only will we be removing their comments, we’ll be locking their accounts.

    We believe conversations are integral to sharing knowledge, but those who are fixated on dodgy ideas in the face of decades of peer-reviewed science are nothing but dangerous.
    It is counter productive to present the evidence and then immediately undermine it by giving space to trolls. The hopeless debates between those with evidence and those who fabricate simply stalls action.

    As a reader, author or commenter, we need your help. If you see something that is misinformation, please don’t engage, simply report it. Do this by clicking the report button below a comment.

    We know you want to have constructive positive discussions, so please don’t engage with the climate change deniers. Dob them in and help us create a space where they don’t derail the conversation.”

    In other words “Agree with us or just shut-up!”

    Free speech at the Conversation has been on life support for some time. Now the powers to be have pulled the plug. RIP free speech.

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    Steve of Cornubia

    ” … he doesn’t realize his backers, patrons and fans were never serious about carbon reduction — they just wanted a job, the dough, or an invite to dinner parties in the right circles.”

    True, but you missed one of the key drivers for supporting AGW: straightforward political cynicism on the part of Leftists. When it became clear that folks on the conservative side were sceptical, that alone was enough to galvanise hitherto disinterested (or even sceptical) Lefties and turn them into fierce AGW supporters. If conservatives didn’t like it, Leftists instinctively think it’s a good thing and so it must must be pushed down their opponents’ throats.

    Further, as the political alignment became clearer and conservative scepticism more evident, the facts and real scale of climate change became less relevant and the ‘science’ less rigorous. It was enough that AGW could be used against their opponents, or simply used to demonstrate Leftists’ superior virtues.

    Think of AGW as the ‘enemy’ of conservatives, in leftists’ minds, and then remember the old adage, “The enemy of my enemy is my friend’.

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    Rupert Ashford

    “If they were serious they would have opted for nukes”. And might I add ages ago. And that sums it up in one line. So well said Jo.

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    Travis T. Jones

    Climate activist Greta Thunberg meets with Barack Obama

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/climate-activist-greta-thunberg-meets-with-barack-obama

    did they talk about this?

    Obama takes credit for U.S. oil-and-gas boom: ‘That was me, people’

    https://www.apnews.com/5dfbc1aa17701ae219239caad0bfefb2

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Here’s the ABC’s story on that. It includes an ongoing link claiming to prove that neither the Medieval Warm Period nor the LIA were world wide events as some skeptics claim. I haven’t followed their sources, but suggest it has all the reliability of all the week-before-NY articles.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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      Greg in NZ

      Greta Obama:
      Hypocrite – from Greek hupokritēs actor
      Manchurian Candidate – trained brainwashed patsy
      B-grade Sci-fi Horror Movie – see above.

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    Travis T. Jones

    Every school principal should write a letter like this?

    This letter from the headmaster, Michael Parker, of Newington College, Stanmore was sent to all parents and teachers of Newington College, Stanmore on 17 September 2019 -

    The climate strike and our students
    Statement from Newington at the end of the article.

    https://www.newington.nsw.edu.au/why-newington/from-the-headmaster/

    via:https://simonchapman6.com/2019/09/18/every-school-principal-should-write-a-letter-like-this/

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    robert rosicka

    More science by consensus, this time about run off affecting the Reef .

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-18/great-barrier-reef-farm-run-off-endangered-list/11521800

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    pat

    India and China’s pre-Climate Summit positions. India’s 30-page discussion paper is well worth reading:

    17 Sept: Ministry of Finance, India: Ministry of Finance brought out a Discussion Paper titled “Climate Summit for Enhanced Action: A Financial Perspective from India” ;examines various issues on climate finance comprehensively
    But in order to respond to the worldwide call for stepping up climate actions, it will have to be matched with adequate provision of climate finance from developed countries to developing countries as mandated by the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) under the principles of common but differentiated responsibilities and equity. Climate finance is a key pillar in enabling climate actions. The recent estimates for taking climate actions are laying out a case for trillions of Dollars and not billions, in new and additional financing. But the momentum of these flows- the present scope, scale and speed of climate finance, is insufficient and inadequate…

    Department of Economic Affairs, Ministry of Finance, Government of India has brought out a Discussion Paper titled “Climate Summit for Enhanced Action: A Financial Perspective from India” which examines various issues on climate finance comprehensively…

    ***The Discussion paper is available at (LINK)
    https://pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePage.aspx?PRID=1585332#.XYDVDRFrikI.whatsapp

    17 Sept: Ministry of Ecology & Environment, The People’s Republic of China
    UN Climate Action Summit: China’s Position and Action
    China takes the position that all parties should earnestly implement the principles and spirit of the UNFCCC, the Kyoto Protocol and the Paris Agreement, including the principles of equitable, common but differentiated responsibilities and respective capabilities, in the light of different national circumstances, and execute the institutional arrangement of nationally determined contributions. In particular, the developed countries should implement and strengthen their commitments to providing financial and technological assistance to developing countries, opening markets and carrying out practical technological cooperation, thus creating the basis for mutual trust and important conditions for comprehensive and effective implementation of the Paris Agreement…

    Climate finance is one of the mayor aspects of effective tackling of climate change. As the largest developing country, China is also entitled to funds support. China urges the developed countries to honor the commitment of US$ 100 billion allocation each year from 2020 on to support the developing world in addressing climate change…
    http://english.mee.gov.cn/News_service/news_release/201909/t20190917_734051.shtml

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Yeah,
      My initial comment would be snipped too, so I’ll try to get my meaning, and feelings expressed in a way acceptable…
      What blatant hypocrisy, and abuse of its situation in the world.


      But what a brilliant way to show the world the stupidity of the UNFCCC position.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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      Zane

      Translation: buy Chinese wind turbines and solar panels.

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    pat

    17 Sept: AP: University of California to dump fossil fuel investments
    LOS ANGELES — The University of California is dumping fossil fuel investments from its nearly $84 billion pension and endowment funds because they are a financial risk, its top financial officers announced Tuesday.
    “Our job is to make money for the University of California, and we’re betting we can do that without fossil fuels investments,” said an opinion article in the Los Angeles Times written by Jagdeep Singh Bachher, UC’s chief investment officer and treasurer, and Richard Sherman, chair of the Board of Regents Investments Committee.

    UC’s $13.4 billion endowment fund will be “fossil free” by the end of the month and its $70 billion pension fund “will soon be that way,” the article said.
    “We want to ensure that the more than 320,000 people currently receiving a UC pension actually get paid, that we can continue to fund research and scholarships throughout the UC system, and that our campuses and medical centers earn the best possible return on their investments,” the article said.

    The article appeared the same day that UC announced its president and chancellors had signed a letter declaring a “climate emergency,” joining more than 7,000 colleges and universities around the world.

    The UC leaders agreed to increase climate research and environmental education and to achieve climate neutrality by 2025.
    “We have a moral responsibility to take swift action on climate change,” UC President ***Janet Napolitano said. “This declaration reaffirms UC’s commitment to addressing one of the greatest existential threats of our time.”…
    https://www.apnews.com/b2988ca75675458cb9e6dff607bef8b9

    ***Wikipedia: Janet Napolitano, United States Secretary of Homeland Security from 2009 to 2013, under President Barack Obama. She has been president of the University of California system since September 2013. She was elected to the American Philosophical Society in 2018…
    In 2008, she was listed by The New York Times as one of the women most likely to become the first female President of the United States. Some political commentators suggested a possible candidacy in the 2016 election…
    In 1993, Napolitano was appointed by President Bill Clinton as United States Attorney for the District of Arizona…
    On October 26, 2017 the University of California announced the establishment of the National Center for Free Speech and Civic Engagement. Chaired by Napolitano, the center is devoted to research, education and advocacy on issues of free speech and civic engagement…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Napolitano

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      “We want to ensure that the more than 320,000 people currently receiving a UC pension actually get paid, that we can continue to fund research and scholarships throughout the UC system, and that our campuses and medical centers earn the best possible return on their investments,” the article said.

      Most of the 320,000 people mentioned will be dead within a month if Diesel becomes unavailable.

      Dump that.

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    Gerry

    ‘Unhinged’ That’s where I think we get it wrong. Timmy is anything but unhinged, he is one of Australia’s most rapacious and scheming wealth gatherers. His mea culpa to a generation is perfectly timed to allow him to disregard any moronic comment he had made over the last 20 years and start anew. We treat him as unhinged at our own peril and must utilise Alinski Rules at every opportunity.

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    TedM

    ” This simple fact forces me to look back on my 20 years of climate activism as a colossal failure.”

    What a difference if you had actually stuck to science Tim. Different conclusions too. Pity that you would have been banned by “The conversation”.

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    Zane

    If John le Carre wrote a thriller about a super sinister global green conspiracy to destroy the industrial economies of the West, nobody would believe it. Truth is stranger than fiction.

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