JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks


Advertising


Australian Speakers Agency



GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper



Archives

Weekend Unthreaded

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.7/10 (16 votes cast)
Weekend Unthreaded, 9.7 out of 10 based on 16 ratings

282 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    Over the past week there has been a stream of comments about one particular aspect of this amazing blog that I’ve wanted to discuss but can’t.
    So I’ll have to leave it.

    KK

    40

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      ??? Why mention it then? Now you’ve got my curiosity all stirred up and I’ll be asking myself all day, what is Kieth talking about? :-)

      81

      • #
        sophocles

        Roy:
        He’s just having a bit of a grumble into his keyboard.

        I did that back at the end of May about geomagnetic excursions and reversals with — ummm — interesting aspects of dating. I’ve learned from that. Jo asked me for the files which prompted my grumbles. Being a good tidy computer user, I had swept them away so, with my credibility at stake, I had to go find them again.

        During that hunt I learned some things about firefox, google and gmail, not just individually but trying to get them to work together (warning: it might be flaky!), which I really didn’t want to learn. That was a trifecta of a downside. The upside was that I found everything again — eventually — and was able to give Jo a list of the important ones.

        So, from the vantage point of having been there:

        KK: be careful — it could happen to you.

        Having said that, I’ll bite and ask the $64,000 question: what is irking you? Don’t leave it; spill.
        Friends want to know …

        71

        • #
          Bill in Oz

          Soph, I now use Dissenter as my Brouser
          And ‘Duck, Duck Go’ as my search engine
          I got sick & tired of Firefox, Chrome and Goggle.
          Bill

          61

          • #
            Power Grab

            “Goggle” indeed!

            How about “Gobble”? ;-)

            61

          • #
            Hanrahan

            I use Brave browser on my Mac because the company everyone loves changed their OS so I could no longer install an add-blocker [I assume there is a way but beyond me] Brave has an integrated blocker that works quite well.

            Does Jo get ad revenue? I wouldn’t like to cheat her.

            30

            • #
              yarpos

              Most ad blockers have a control so you can unblock specifc sites to allow ads

              41

              • #
                Hanrahan

                That’s why I asked: so I could enable them if it was to Jo’s benefit.

                30

              • #

                I rarely, but sometimes arrange Ads on request, and they appear in the sidebar or as a banner at the bottom. Sometimes I link to Amazon Books that return a small commission. I have never run google ads, and perhaps I’m silly, but I dislike the flashers and topics I see on other sites with google ads. I figure the audience here is too smart to read a page without mentally filtering out all the ads like I do. I assume there would be a low click rate unless the ads were very cleverly targeted. Asking readers to click on Ads for “solar panels” seems “ungood” in every sense.

                Ideally though, if I could run an ad spot which helped advertise services or goods made by skeptics that were relevant to readers I’d figure it was useful all around. I’d be happy to earn a commission from that. It’s likely to need locality targeting though, and I haven’t even looked to see if there was a plugin that did that.

                Suggestions welcome.

                50

              • #
                Annie

                Three cheers Jo, I hate those flashing ads too, they really rile me. All the more reason to send you chocolate when we can as you don’t plague us with them.
                It was some really bad ones on WUWT that gave me the motivation to get an adblocker.

                30

              • #
                Gee aye

                Agree entirely that the aesthetics of adds are generally very poor. Some sites run adds and I don’t mind and I suspect that is because (I suspect) they’ve designed their site to incorporate them tastefully. The aesthetic problems arise when the adds are just plonked on a page

                20

              • #
                Peter C

                Some sites run adds and(that) I don’t mind and I suspect that is because (I suspect) they’ve designed their site to incorporate them tastefully.

                Gee aye Can you give an example of the ads that you don’t mind.

                10

              • #
                sophocles

                I tolerated ads for a few months after Google went berserk, but then they started obscuring real content so I reached for an ad-blocker. I definitely do not miss those ads, sorry to say…

                Some sites complain about me running an ad-blocker. I don’t bother with reading anything on a site which does that. I just move on. Gee, ain’t life tuff?

                40

              • #
                Gee aye

                the adds I don’t mind are the ones that don’t intrude. it is purely subjective. And thanks for the editing… that was a terrible sentence.

                20

              • #

                Ads that flash or blip or move make a page near unreadable. I find myself moving the window to try to conceal the ad. When I go without an ad blocker — to know what sites look like without one — I’m curious about what ads turn up given my searches. Most of the sites I read don’t have them. The really annoying ads only turn up on a few sites (not in newspapers or science journals). Alas WUWT is one of the worst, and I assume my site would be treated similarly. Really trashy flashers.

                The sheer inanity of most ads and the irrelevance (even though I use google) tells me the google ad generator is very immature. no wonder the click rate is low.

                PS: I sent sophocles suggestions to David E and he was delighted with Dissenter. I shall have to try it. Thank you! I’m so over google, though DDG never seemed to get me what I needed.

                20

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                I got tired of the in your face advertising I was hit with on some sites and long ago put in a pair of ad blockers that knock out everything. But Jo, you’ll be glad to know I have them disabled for domain joannenova.com.au. You’re the only domain from which I tolerate any advertising anymore.**

                I sometimes run across someone who balks at my ad blockers and demands that I turn them off. I just go elsewhere instead.

                If advertising on the internet was more reasonable I would tolerate it but they past the point of no return already a long time ago.

                ** The real reason I disabled the ad blockers at first was because one of them stopped the button leading to https://whos.amung.us. That site gives a good real time picture of what your audience is and where it is.

                20

            • #
              Bill in Oz

              Jo I have adblocker and never see the flasher adds you talk about on WUWT.
              But WUWT is perplexing for me
              I get an email every time a new post goes up.
              And that is now 5-6 times a day
              Who can cope with such a Niagara of info ?
              Certainly not me.
              And so much now is relevant to the USA political scene.
              So I just hit delete after a very brief glance.

              20

          • #
            WXcycles

            Same here Bill. Dissenter is nice and fast and doesn’t leak information like a sieve and waste my bandwidth so much. Duck-go and Hotmail (MS Live) get it done. I still use Firefox for video downloads as video autoplay management in Dissenter is a little iffy, but once that’s sorted I doubt I’ll use Firefox again. And that’s has been my browser so long I can’t even remember when I started using it. I may actually uninstall it once Dissenter goes to version 1.0 (version 0.6699 currently).

            30

          • #
            sophocles

            To Bill in Oz and anyone else who finds it interesting:
            This is quite O/T, so apologies.

            Definitions:
            chrome or chrome WebKit, as it is known, is the browser parsing and rendering engine in Gobble’s Chromium browser. Note use of case to define. It’s used by quite a few other browsers because it is very reliable and fast.

            Browsers and other net wranglers:
            Dissenter, and Brave are based on WebKit as is Chromium, Vivaldi, Arora (nice palindrome) and now Opera, among others. It’s reliable and fast. Firefox is Mozilla. Mozilla wrote their own programming language for Firefox which has now become rather bloated. That also gives multiple sources for errors. I don’t need to be told about those errors: updates were coming out weekly from the end of May and over June. I’ve just had the second one this month for August. Two. Perhaps they’re getting on top of the errors, but I’m no longer using it.

            Falkon, Konqueror etc are khtml. Konqueror can use WebKit as rekonq but installs with KHTML by default. I don’t know much about Falkon. It’s on one of my machines (I run 4 desktops and a laptop, without any MS software at all.) I’ve not had any problems with it but neither have I loaded it up. There’s also the Iridium browser and others. Iridium is supposed to be very fast but I’m probably not going to try it. Development is rumoured to be patchy.

            I’ve a copy of Tor in the wings which I will have to have a poke at sometime. If you want the ultimate in privacy, stay away from Brave and go for Tor. It’s documentation, though, does not recommend it for banking. I’ll have to look deeper there.

            I won’t be in a rush: I’ll hammer on one and if it fails me, I’ll move on to the next. I use DDG, DogPile and WebCrawler as my searchengines. DogPile is not as good as the other two, in my estimation FWIW. I find DDG the most effective for me. It’s very convenient to use.

            I threw Chrome (Chromium) off my machines when I caught it playing in my filesystem without my permission nor my consent. I only noticed it because of an error in a script it used. I found and fixed the error but Chromium check-summed the script and downloaded the faulty script again. So off it went. I’ve had something of an aversion to Gobble software ever since then. I don’t like GMail either but I’m sort of stuck with it for the moment. It was slick, fast and reliable for a long time but now it’s fat adipose, illogical and difficult.

            The two machines I usually use have 32GB RAM. I remembered them as 16GB but forgot an upgrade about 4 years ago. Oops. Sorry to mislead. Number 4 machine runs OpenBSD. It’s fun. It’s now badly in need of upgrading which I’ll do when it’s hardware has been upgraded next year.
            I’m about to upgrade Number 3 machine’s hardware. That will be over the next two weeks.

            My opinions, For What They’re Worth. .

            50

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        I think KK is doing a little experiment with the “likes” button.

        As I type this, he has generated 4 likes, and zero “don’t likes”.

        Your response generated 8 likes, and 1 “don’t likes” (as I type this).

        You can add up the “likes” and “don’t likes” for the entire thread if you wish.

        The point is, that people tend to be swayed by the opinions of others, and will tend to “vote” along with the majority opinion, as they perceive it. Nobody wants to feel an outcast, or being on the losing side.

        If you can mount an exercise that skews social media likes and dislikes, in real-time, you can influence the “vote” to give you the outcome you want. This is currently referred to as, “The Weaponization of Social Media”, and it should have been mentioned in the Muller Report.

        40

    • #
      Yonniestone

      It’s unthreaded KK, come on spit it out old Cobber!

      71

      • #
        Yonniestone

        I’ll have guess at P. Fitzroy?

        60

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          No Yonnie, it’s not Peter or Ian, they’re everywhere.

          A few on the earlier thread indicated that they felt that “I” and “PF” were being treated badly, that they had suffered from an avalanche of bad manners and deserved to be treated better and given a proper hearing.

          Looking out from this blog to the bigger world I think we have put together a pretty good understanding of the deceit and corruption driving the Global Warming Death by Incineration via CO2 meme.

          What has disturbed me is that within the blog the very same problem is not recognised or acknowledged.

          My comments on PF are recent but one comment alone by “I” some time ago would explain the problem: it has been “removed” by No or the Mods.

          If we are going to move forward we need to recognize the problem in its various incarnations and confront it.
          That’s not being done.

          KK

          50

          • #
            Peter C

            You have not made your self very clear KK, probably deliberately.

            I myself do not think that the Trolls on this site are a big problem. They are given a very proper hearing, but they do not change. Jo is tolerant of Trolls to a great degree (I think that she believes in Free Speech). There are three ways of dealing with them:
            1. Ignore,
            2. Politely point out the error,
            3. Give them heaps of abuse.

            I incline toward 1. myself, but I sometimes break my rule. I don’t mind reading a bit of the 3rd approach because it can be quite amusing. Let’s have some fun!
            Most give up after a while. I miss John Brooks in some ways. He was smart, correctly calling out some errors, but somehow unable to appreciate truth on occasions.
            There are a few that I do not miss.

            40

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              I’m keen on freedom of speech, so trolls are fine to speak their bit, and this is the beauty of democracy. I think we all win by being kind, to even those who may try our patience. The only time we need correct someone is when they are plainly and deliberately rude, as respect needs to be reciprocated….

              30

              • #
                Peter C

                Yes Original Steve,

                However I think that KK might be upset by those who deliberately try our patience over and over again.

                My patience does not extend to seven times seven. Once maybe, second time is being offensive. Third time should be confronted, either by method 1. or 3.

                50

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                As Peter says in effect, there are limits to everything.

                I get no pleasure in responding to the presence of I or PF as some have suggested.

                On the contrary, I resent what they are doing to the blog.

                And no, it’s not about free speech, which has sadly become such a highly politicised issue that it has come to mean everything and nothing at the same time.

                You really have to ask questions about what people are doing here when, like the two in question there’s never been any indication of genuine involvement in searching for greater understanding or providing information for others that would be of benefit.

                After I gave up responding to their comments it’s possible that there were one or two interactions on ocean current that may have been relevant but on balance think that they were most certainly just the normal infill.

                So if people posting here have been simply “blog clogging” what are they doing here?

                I understand completely Jo’s position regarding the longer standing of these two posters, but the second lives a long way off.

                Anyone who thinks I enjoy interacting with either of these two is way off target and talking about “manners” and consideration for their feelings is likewise.
                Coming to this blog has been a great experience for me and I have appreciated it.
                Perhaps that’s why I’ve been wary of the motives of non contributing contributors.

                KK

                30

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                KK,

                I’ve been hanging around this blog since almost the beginning of it and I’ve seen the way things go from then until now. And apparently Jo will allow anyone to comment who can stay civil and reasonably on topic.

                So, many of those who comment have been trolls. Some have even been pain in the butt types who apparently just came around for something to do. And in all that time the situation hasn’t changed. My conclusion is that Jo see’s some benefit from having the Peter Fitzroys of this world coming around and saying what they say. And I’m sure that she’ll correct me if I’m wrong…she reads everything and she’s chewed me out a couple of times so I know she’ll do it.

                If I’m right I don’t see how anyone can be doing something to the blog. I used to confront them all with the kind of science argument that I made to PF but since the science debate has been won I don’t often challenge anyone anymore.

                Basically I ignore them if I can and if I can’t I try to confront them with the truth and see what happens. It’s up to them what they do as a result.

                30

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            KK,

            If you’re referring to my comment challenging certain unnamed contributors about what they would do if PF were to disappear and they suddenly have no one to kick around, then that challenge from me was because I find it not useful to have that constant attitude thrown at me. Peter Fitzroy may not know what he’s talking about but pointing out his errors and asking him question is far more interesting than seeing name calling. That brawl that got Jo mad and she took action to stop it isn’t what I want to read. And I’m guessing that it isn’t what many others want to read either.

            It occurs to me that Jo may get more traffic if the troll is destroyed with good information and sound counter arguments. You can find name calling in many places but what Jo has built and fostered is in only one place, here. I don’t know what she’ll say when she reads this and she certainly will read it, she pretty much reads everything. But I’ve been hanging around this blog for a long time and it’s a lot more interesting if there’s some real debate going on instead of anger and name calling.

            Concerning PF you asked me why feed the troll? Well the troll is here and he comments. He seems very likely to stay a while. Better I throw him a challenge and see if he can stand up under it. He couldn’t. Just putting him down, calling him names and ignoring him is disrespectful of him. Why do we need to do that? Those are the tactics of our adversary.

            Years ago you would find long running debates between readers over some point or another. Believe it or not I followed some of those and I learned from them. Those debates are no longer happening and the people involved have gone. I think that’s a big loss.

            You’re free to tel me off if you think I’m wrong. As you know, I don’t bite.

            30

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              “Concerning PF you asked me why feed the troll?”

              Sorry Roy, it was meant as a joke.

              KK

              10

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                Then I will take it exactly that way. End of story.

                20

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                Forgive me. I see that I misspelled your name back at the top of this thread. Unfortunate for me who can’t proof read for beans or money that both spellings pass the spellchecker and I apologize for that. I don’t ever intentionally get anyone’s name wrong.

                30

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘ …. one particular aspect … ‘

      I’m stepping out for the day, so feel free to pass aspersions on the worthiness of my clients.

      42

  • #
    RicDre

    Millionaire Bill Maher pushes for recession

    “Bill Maher is rooting for a recession to keep President Trump from winning re-election in 2020.”

    Easy for him to say as he wouldn’t suffer from the effects of a recession. He obviously doesn’t really care about the people he pretends to care about.

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/bill-maher-presses-for-recession

    140

    • #
    • #
      sophocles

      We’re halfway through a global recession, so Bill Maher obviously doesn’t know what one looks like. The world will be coming out of it in the second half of next year.

      If his timing and luck is that bad, then maybe Trump will win a second term … :-)

      60

      • #
        Another Ian

        He’s depending on those economists that “predicted 9 of the last 2 recessions”?

        70

        • #
          sophocles

          :-P
          The global economy is like the climate: it’s cyclic. It grows for seven years, crashes and spends nine months sliding into a two year recession. Then it starts again and grows rapidly for another seven years, before stopping and sliding into another two year cycle. The first half of the overall cycle is not particularly spectacular whereas the second half is more so. Overall, it’s an eighteen cycle.

          Next retraction is October 2026, recession starts c. Jun 2027 and lasts to end of 2029. Enjoy it.

          20

        • #
          sophocles


          Heh, 9 of the last 2! That’s better than the climate models!
          Only the modellers know how many predictions with zero successes …

          30

    • #
      Ted O'Brien

      What kind of recession? Who loses? Who climbs the ladders?
      I never saw any sign that anybody else saw what I saw in the crash of 1987 .
      The Hawke government was elected in 1983 end it wasn’t long before I was saying those blokes have given capitalism enough rope to hang itself and are urging it to hang it self as quickly as possible. They deregulated the banks and strenuously promoted abuse of that deregulation by Bond and others, including three of our “big four” banks. The pinnacle of that promotion came when Hawke publicly vilified NAB CEO Nobby Clarke for refusing to join his bank to their road to ruin.
      Every prudent businessman knew that what they were doing had to lead to a bust. In 1987 they got their bust.
      There should never have been any doubt that that crash was deliberately engineered by Marxists in elected governments, including ours. Just as a developer buys a property and demolishes the building to build a new one of a different design, they planned to destroy capitalism to enable them to install a new system of their choosing. No matter the cost to people.
      Their plan was to take us back to 1930, scorched earth. But they were outsmarted. The people on top of the pile could still remember the 1930s. Little fun is to be had on top of a pile that is flat, so instead of trying to extract every pound of flesh, they took losses sufficient to ensure that the pile did not collapse, which left them still on top, and the Marxists still on the outer.
      Having failed to gain control with their crash, the Marxists switched to running up public debt. Public debt must be funded by private capital, by way of taxation. Public debt is future private capital already taken out of private management.
      I expect Trump to triumph over his Marxists. Scott Morrison will need to put a bit more positive effort in to beat ours.

      60

  • #
    James Poulos

    What a bunch of sooks these South Pacific Island Nations are… the only real climate refugees were the Vikings who had to abandon Greenland.

    280

    • #
      • #
        Latus Dextro

        Interesting. Greenland is loaded with rare earth metals
        However, over at the Grauniard unsurprisingly …

        No thanks, we’re not for sale, aghast Greenland tells Trump
        Danish politicians dismiss US president’s apparent interest in island as ‘hopefully a joke’

        30

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          Greenland? Where it’s -26˚C today?
          http://www.summitcamp.org/status/webcam/

          And across the narrow strait, a small glacier which formed atop a volcano ~1,300 AD has returned from whence it came:

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/396965/iceland-s-okjokull-glacier-dies-aged-about-700

          “Mourners are gathering in Iceland to commemorate the loss of Okjokull, which has died at the age of about 700″.

          “Prime Minister Katrin Jakobsdottir, environment minister Gudmundur Ingi Gudbrandsson and former Irish president Mary Robinson will all take part in the ceremony”.

          “The dedication, written by Icelandic author Andri Snaer Magnason, ends with the date of the ceremony and the concentration of carbon dioxide in the air globally – 415 parts per million”.

          Are they mad? Oh right, it’s via the BBC.

          50

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          Hmnnnnn! Trump! While one hand is feeling Greenland, where is the other?
          The man might be a genius!

          10

      • #
        Hanrahan

        I’d imagine that they are paying a lot to lease the Thule AFB. They could save that for starters.

        10

    • #
      David Maddison

      I believe Greenland was only named as such to encourage settlers to go there. Nevertheless, due to natural climate change, it was indeed once greener than it now is due to the Medieval Climate Optimum (as it was once called).

      I think it’s good that President Trump wants to buy it for the US. Good for existing inhabitants and good for the US. And real estate is one of Donald’s specialties after all.

      70

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      Create dependencies and then wind up with self-righteous dependents, afflicted by terminal entitlement syndrome with a final stage known as degenerative grievance disorder.

      51

    • #
      sophocles

      James:

      it’s the UN Climate Fund. Money! From that “bottomless wallet.” They think they’ve been promised money. They want the money they’ve been promised. It doesn’t matter where it comes from, but if they can scam more, they’ll certainly try. Poor saps.

      The Pacific is where Cargo Cultism originated.

      90

      • #
        James Poulos

        Sophocles,

        Who knows maybe the Pacific Islanders have the right idea.

        Australia closes down coal industry and becomes another financial basket case.

        No longer able to support other Pacific Nations.

        Succumbs to China’s Belt and Road.

        Under the B&R Australia (as already have the Island Nations) signs over it’s resources to China as collateral against loans from China to build infrastructure.

        Problem is that China never actually hands over the loan.

        China supplies Chinese manufactured Wind and Solar infrastructure and supplies Chinese labour to build the infrastructure with zero benefit to the Australian economy.

        Australian industry (what remains of it) eventually fails because renewable energy can’t fulfill the daily energy requirements to maintain a minimum healthy living standard.

        Energy costs rise and the networks can no longer sustain the compulsory costs of the Large Scale Energy Certificates being paid back to Chines renewable operators.

        Australian industry and commerce fail.

        The loan interest rates are exorbitant, but the the Australian B&R decision makers and agreement signers are living it up on bribes and recently retired to the Virgin Islands or Thailand or Bali.

        Australia defaults on the loans and our coal as well as our iron ore, bauxite, uranium, gold, opal, native flora and fauna (medicinal purposes) etc etc is extracted and sent back to China to maintain China’s living standard and heavy industry.

        Australians appeal to New Zealand for Climate Refugee status.

        Please help us Jacinda… unfortunately New Zealand has already set precedent for denying Climate Refugee Status to Pacific Islander Nations.

        60

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          One wonders……

          https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/18/melissa-price-cant-recall-entire-conversation-with-former-kiribati-leader

          “Melissa Price has said she can’t “recall the complete conversation” in which three witnesses say she disparaged Pacific nations to the former president of Kiribati but maintains the version provided by Labor’s Pat Dodson is incorrect.

          Under fire from Labor for misleading the House, the environment minister qualified her remarks that she “100% disagreed” with Dodson by adding in question time on Thursday that she did not recall the entire “very pleasant and light-hearted conversation”.

          “On Wednesday the senator wrote to the minister declaring he was “appalled” by her remarks to the visiting Pacific official Anote Tong on Tuesday night during a chance encounter at a Canberra restaurant.

          “Dodson says he introduced Price to Tong at the restaurant and she then said: “I know why you are here, it’s for the cash. For the Pacific, it’s always about the cash. I have my chequebook here, how much do you want?”

          “Dodson’s account was backed by another witness, Phil Glendenning, the director of the Edmund Rice Centre and the president of the Refugee Council of Australia. He told Guardian Australia the Labor’s senator’s account of the incident was “150% correct”.”

          10

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          Australians appeal to New Zealand for Climate Refugee status“.
          • Applicants must bring their own supply of socks (the more the merrier)

          We can always do with a few more fruit pickers, or better still, you could work for the water bottling plants sprouting up all around the country as of late. Being able to speak fluent Mandarin may help, maybe not:

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/396408/court-to-hear-challenge-to-water-bottling-consent-in-christchurch

          “The Chinese Cloud Ocean Water has consent to extract more than one-and-a-half billion litres of water each year, and in February was looking to open a second bottling plant”.

          Multi-use plastic shopping bags are now illegal (I’ve got my own stash, accumulated over the past few years) while single-use plastic bottles are exported by the fadge-load every day, yet Jacinda Princess bleats that “Australia has to answer to the Pacific”???

          She ain’t no Helen Clark but never-the-less she’s got her eye on that top UN job (with Helengrad hissing into her left ear all the way). Shudder…

          41

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          An excellent summary of things James.

          20

    • #
      Serp

      You’ve got to wonder how much of the five hundred thousand dollars will go towards the benefit of these Pacific Islands Forum leaders’ populations and how much will simply be diverted to their Swiss bank accounts in the time honoured third world tradition.

      Morrison’s divide and conquer tactics sufficed to neutralize the rabid anti coal elements this year; let’s see what the next conference brings…

      30

  • #
    David Wojick

    My latest on Google bias:

    https://www.cfact.org/2019/08/15/reining-in-google/

    Trump and the Senate are both hot on this. Google has a lot to a passer for.

    101

  • #
    David Wojick

    My latest on Google bias:

    https://www.cfact.org/2019/08/15/reining-in-google/

    Trump and the Senate are both hot on this. Google has a lot to a answer for.

    90

  • #
  • #
    Another Ian

    “War On Meat”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/08/16/war-on-meat-2/

    Al Gore’s fingers and that vegan “meat” patty.

    In comments note that they are priced about 2.5X meat ones – latest fad anyone?

    80

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Ok I’ll bite.

      Vegans Ha, their ideas ain’t worth a sausage!

      120

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        “Nice one, Centurion…..”

        - Monty Python

        70

      • #
        Another Ian

        Progression

        “An apple a day keeps the doctor away”

        UK update

        “but these days so many are Mohammedans that I find a bacon sandwich works just as well”

        And we’re in trouble if it gets to

        “but these days so many are vegans that I find a meat pie works just as well”

        70

      • #
        Another Ian

        Y

        “Ok I’ll bite”

        Al Gore’s fingers, that vegan “meat” patty or the sausage?

        20

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Yeah its important to note something I’ve mentioned a few times, namely it appears the Elite are hell bent on basically forcing humanity into a vegie diet. Some will try and cash in on it, but the money isn’t the driver, its forcing humanity into their occult belief system. This also goes hand in glove with the push for world population reduction to 500 million – the gist seems to be they would be happy for many who reject their occult belief system to die via wars , starvation , however….they dont care, all they care about is protecting their rather mythical “gaia” earth goddess.

      The other thing I find interesting is how some of the very stomach churning practices of the elites are now being thrown out into the open. The Jeffery Epstein mess is now ensnaring may wealthy and powerful people – it was a rock that those involved in it will go to great lengths to stop being turned over.

      100

      • #
        Yonniestone

        I heard a statement online that the 1999 movie ‘Eyes wide shut’ was more documentary than drama.

        If so consider how these people would see us and rule if they could….if it hasn’t been happening already.

        70

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          The old saying ( paraphrased ) that how they treat prisoners is how they would treat the rest of us if they had the chance, I think holds true……

          70

        • #
          Yonniestone

          I also believe the Gaia worship is an incorrect reasoning on our behalf.

          They ultimately behave like demigogues that wish to live as demigods while not having one to guide their moral compass.

          The annals of history is littered with failed ideologists that chose ego over evolution.

          80

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Most of my research so far appears to indicate the Elite follow a New Age belief system, which is just a carefully presented soft-looking branch of the occult. Some of them are just hard core occultists and it appears the Jeffery Epstein thing is just a small the visible component, but think of the implications of just one small bit being visible and how deep it goes.

            70

      • #
        TdeF

        Fear, guilt, envy, hate, love. Strong emotions. Totalitarians use fear. As I wrote, the soft underbelly of white/euro Christian society is guilt. Make people feel guilty for eating meat, for driving cars, for having jobs, for being in charge, for being straight. White male privilege is a combination of three guilt trips. Assail people like this and they will hand over their homes, their cash, their jobs and their country. You can even assail Christianity, Judaism and democracy even with the blessing of the Pope. Communism’s attack on Western Democracy. Like Global Warming. The Chinese government goes one further and say they will not restrict building of massive coal based power because Climate Change is not their fault, but ours.

        70

    • #
      Another Ian

      “Beef Tax Ahead? UK Government Announces a Major Climate Change Review of British Food Production”

      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/08/17/beef-tax-ahead-uk-government-announces-a-major-climate-change-review-of-british-food-production/

      More fuel for Katie Hopkins’s next tilt at “Bonkers Britain”?

      40

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Britain seems to be ground zero for a lot of the climate madness

        Bear in mind that if my theory about the climate madness driven by the Elite, who have a pagan occult mind belief system is correct ( and I’m quite comfortable that it is ), these loons are intent in forcing people into a vegie diet ( which is actually forcing their belief system upon you ) to protect their mythical pagan “gaia goddess” , then this makes perfect sense.

        If people wont hop on board the Climate Loopy Train, they will be tagged, bagged and throw on against their will as it careens down the tracks….

        40

        • #
          Annie

          ‘Careen’….scraping the barnacles off the bottom of a boat! This is the British meaning of the word; we’d say ‘career’ down the track ;)

          30

    • #
      Hanrahan

      It seems that there are continued, deliberate assaults on our health. Ancel Keys’ Seven Countries Study was a deliberate fr@ud because he studied more than seven populations, the rest were discarded because they didn’t fit the line on the chart. The resulting food pyramid has led to premature death of many millions. His study was debunked decades ago but a lie travels around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes. Eggs got a bad rap.

      Another unfounded and dangerous theory is the “salt causes heart disease” myth. I doubt that there are many believers among those who keep themselves informed.

      Then there’s “Slip, slap, slop” . It is well known that we need sunlight to synthesise D 3 which helps protect us from cancer generally but there is an even greater benefit in the production of nitrous oxide. In a video I watched recently the researcher claimed that studiously avoiding sun exposure is as damaging to one’s health as smoking. Make of that what you will.

      A vegan diet is just more of the same, it will condemn millions to an early grave. The elite must be trying to depopulate “their” world for their benefit. Why so much pro-abortion, pro-euthanasia legislation?

      40

    • #
      sophocles

      Well. Al Gore as the major investor has to make money out of it. As much as possible.
      If it costs 2.5 times more than real meat, then it’s carrying less than half the goodness and nutrition of the real meat.

      20

      • #
        yarpos

        Classic Green initiative. Costs more, delivers less, for no real purpose. How many times have we been around this loop?

        10

  • #
  • #
    Another Ian

    “Surprise! The Great Barrier Reef is Not Dying from Global Warming”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/08/16/surprise-great-barrier-reef-is-not-dying-from-global-warming/

    As Kipling had it “Run and find out”

    70

    • #
      Peter C

      Surprise! The Great Barrier Reef is Not Dying from Global Warming”

      Environment Minister Susan Ley actually visited the GBR and had a look for herself.

      She found the condition of the Reef to be much better than expected! Fancy that.
      In fact; “Ley said she found it difficult to reconcile what she say in the water with what had been said around th3e world. “The reef is not dead” was her appraisal. “It is not dying. I would not even say it was on life support” “.

      https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=TAWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaustralian.com.au%2Finquirer%2Freports-of-the-great-barrier-reefs-doom-are-exaggerated%2Fnews-story%2F500e73695109b027df6f5b4a8a398f80&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium
      The article by Graham Lloyd from the weekend Australian is paywalled.

      Difficult to reconcile sounds like the first step to skepticism. It could have ramifications.

      80

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        It could have ramifications.

        True. She runs the risk of not waking-up having sustained a constellation of interesting and fashionable neck fractures at the hands of a sheet.

        60

      • #
        glen Michel

        Well, I have just got back from Gloucester Island which is between Bowen and Airlie Beach. There are lots of fringeing reefs in great condition. I made a particular observation of this site while fishing the area which took a direct hit from ” Debbie ” early last year. The shallower reefs were torn up as one would expect, but nil evidence of bleaching – or crown of thorns for that matter. All in all the local area retains a healthy reef.

        30

    • #
      Analitik

      Just waiting for the MSM to claim how she (or her denialist staff) cherry picked the site on the GBR to one where the die off had only just begun.

      But they won’t be able to list the locations where she could have seen the vast tracts of dying, bleached reef.

      70

      • #
        Analitik

        Actually, it looks like the MSM is trying their best to bury this story.

        ZERO mention of it outside of The Australian and The Cairns Post (both of which are paywalled sites)

        50

      • #
        Analitik

        Oh, here we go. The Guardian has picked up the baton through the ramblings of former public servant and Grogs Gamut blogger, Greg Jericho.

        https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2019/aug/18/accepting-anecdotes-more-readily-than-climate-science-is-wilful-ignorance

        20

        • #
          Peter C

          Yup, Just as you predicted. Cherry picking Jericho accuses Susan Ley or her guides of cherry picking her reef.

          Amazingly the Guardian thinks I might donate after I have read each deceitful story.

          60

          • #
            glen Michel

            Sure thing, send money to the Guardian – that rag is destined for oblivion.

            30

          • #
            GD

            Cherry picking Jericho accuses Susan Ley or her guides of cherry picking her reef

            Did the Guardian send any reporters on a reef diving expedition? Or did they get their information from the ABC?

            40

            • #
              Another Ian

              ” Or did they get their information from the ABC?”

              Who didn’t send any reporters on a reef diving expedition either but got their information from JCU?

              30

            • #
              yarpos

              They dont want information, they want to regurgitate propaganda.

              20

        • #
          AndyG55

          Climate science IS only second or third hand anecdotes.

          It is not based on any provable science, that is for sure.

          I would take the anecdotal evidence of people who have actually seen it, over climate so-called “science” any day. !!

          30

          • #
            Another Ian

            Andy

            Reliable anecdotes beat junk science hands down

            20

          • #
            yarpos

            Many things are made clear by looking out the window or saying “show me”

            20

          • #
            David Wojick

            Anecdotes indeed. What alarmists call “the science” are so-called assessment reports, as from the IPCC, National reports, etc.These are a group of chosen alarmists’ personal opinion as to what the hundreds of thousands of scientific papers dealing with some aspect of climate change add up to.

            20

  • #
    Lance

    Apparently, G00gle is actively suppressing sites such as Jo’s. By manipulating their search algorithm and “Alexa Score”, information from searches is “guided” to their “preferred” narrative.

    For those wondering what they might not be seeing, some relevant sites are here:

    https://amgreatness.com/2019/08/16/a-directory-of-inconvenient-climate-information-websites/

    Perhaps the FCC and Congress will take action to level the playing field, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

    100

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      It’s not apparently, you can see it for yourself.

      Search on, “climate change skeptical blogs.” Jo is nowhere to be found.

      50

      • #
        Another Ian

        Jo cones up pretty quickly if you do this in DDG

        50

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Yep. I use gurgle if I’m searching for anything commercial or non-contentious.

          I use duckduckgo.com for stuff that I know will cause upset within the snowflake crowd….and is also likely to be actively censored

          90

          • #
            Lance

            In addition to DDG, I also use Dogpile https://www.dogpile.com/ and Webcrawler https://www.webcrawler.com/

            They are metasearch engines and retrieve data from many sources, eliminate duplicates, and present them.

            Not wholly dependent upon gurgle . Sadly, most people are gurgle slaves and don’t know any better.

            Cheers

            70

            • #
            • #
              Latus Dextro

              Astonishingly, Robert Epstein and Ronald E. Robertson published their findings in August 2015. They submitted their research for review in October 2014. I and doubtless many others were well aware of it and took subsequent steps to avoid the Goolag and its tentacles, YouLube, Spottification, Instagratify, (avoided FarceBook).

              The subsequent irony of the ‘delusional’ (that hand waving distraction) of Russia collusion knows no bounds.
              Epstein and Robertson’s research PRECEDED the 2016 election and …. crickets. It always was the Silicon Savants meddling in elections, a fact obviously well suppressed by Goolag and the MSM.
              We’re at war over information. It is abundantly clear that those that know how to use and control information have a better shot of running the show, predicted by Alvin Toffler in ‘Future Shock’ (1970), and endorsed by Orwell and Alinsky in their own ways.
              Recently, Biden was inadvertently spot on: the public are confronted by daily (fake) truths like climate change – UNFCCC defined) and facts, climate variability – UNFCCC defined but never mentioned. The DEMonrats and DNC, the Left corporatist globalists specialise in creating truths and hiding facts. Little wonder that Biden appeared confused.

              The search engine manipulation effect (SEME) and its possible impact on the outcomes of elections
              Robert Epstein and Ronald E. Robertson
              PNAS August 18, 2015 112 (33) E4512-E4521; first published August 4, 2015 https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1419828112

              Significance
              We present evidence from five experiments in two countries suggesting the power and robustness of the search engine manipulation effect (SEME). Specifically, we show that (i) biased search rankings can shift the voting preferences of undecided voters by 20% or more, (ii) the shift can be much higher in some demographic groups, and (iii) such rankings can be masked so that people show no awareness of the manipulation. Knowing the proportion of undecided voters in a population who have Internet access, along with the proportion of those voters who can be influenced using SEME, allows one to calculate the win margin below which SEME might be able to determine an election outcome.

              and its possible impact on the outcomes of elections … that’s the proverbial tip of the iceberg now.

              30

          • #
            Greebo

            As do I. When searching gurgle I use the Brave browser to block gurgle’s ads. DDG is fine in Safari.

            40

        • #
          yarpos

          not really the point, the vast swathe of average consumer people will accept whatever is on the first page of a Google search and look no further

          30

    • #
      Geoff Sherrington

      I think that using Google to search for Jo gives you an answer if you are a regular searcher for Jo. I am one of those, so I cannot do a test to emulate a search with no priors. Geoff S

      60

    • #
      Greebo

      Project Veritas has been blowing the whistle on this for a while now. “Blacklist” algorithms abound.

      https://www.projectveritas.com/

      Also Dave Cullen https://youtu.be/abORAPMM4lY

      40

  • #
    joseph

    And from another science battlefield . . . . .

    The words below are from a paragraph in an article by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that I’ve linked below.

    “Such concerns only deepen when one considers that, besides freedom from liability, vaccine makers enjoy another little-known lucrative loophole; vaccines are the only pharmaceutical or medical products that do not need to be rigorously safety tested. To win an FDA license, companies must safety test virtually every other drug for years in randomized comparisons against an inert placebo. Yet, not a single vaccine currently on the CDC schedule was tested against an inert placebo. Without placebo testing, regulators have no capacity to assess a medicine’s risks”.

    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/americans-can-handle-an-open-discussion-on-vaccines-rfk-jr-responds-to-criticism-from-his-family/

    ‘CHD NOTE: In early May 2019, Politico Magazine published an article written by three of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.’s relatives, criticizing his advocacy for safe vaccines. After numerous requests, Politico magazine has refused to publish his response’.

    41

    • #
      Robert Swan

      The statement:

      Without placebo testing, regulators have no capacity to assess a medicine’s risks.

      is sloppy, at best. A randomised controlled trial is only necessary for rigorous statistical analysis, but it isn’t the only way to assess risk, and it it’s not always the best way either.

      51

      • #
        joseph

        Robert,

        The link is interesting, and entertaining. And, sure, there are other ways to assess risk but the controlled trial does also serve a purpose beyond one that is purely statistical. What is being described is the way in which a randomised controlled trial, when not properly executed, can be used to appear to prove the safety of a vaccine.

        10

        • #
          Robert Swan

          Joseph,

          The nature of vaccination is that you treat millions in the hope of saving (say) hundreds. There is no plausible trial which can demonstrate the safety of such a treatment. If you test it on 5,000 people (say), it’s unlikely that you’ll catch the 1/100,000 who might have an adverse reaction. Etc.

          I think the vaccination argument is not being carried out in good faith by either side. Many of the “antis” are entrenched, and no amount of reasoning will convince them. On the other side, the “pros” are making dishonest claims of safety.

          The proper argument that should be made for vaccination is NOT that *none* will suffer, just that far fewer will suffer than if vaccination wasn’t carried out. Most people are open to this line of reasoning.

          The notion of “herd immunity” is what makes it compelling to me, but I’m not going to get into advocacy. My point is that demands for ever more rigorous trials to demonstrate safety are disingenuous. No trial can do it.

          30

          • #

            OR perhaps we might just compare the vaccinated to unvaccinated groups and collect all the data we can, and do gene studies to see if there are people more at risk of side effects?

            A trial like that obviously suffers from self-selection, rather than being randomized, but given the importance of getting this right it would be vastly better than nothing and would have the numbers required.

            If data were impeccably gathered and stored and demonstrated a benefit, and also identified who was at risk it would surely put an end to the spreading doubt and distrust.

            Let me know if you find it.

            20

            • #
              Gee aye

              Are you talking about side-affects or immunity? regarding immunity you’d have to have vaccinated and unvaccinated in isolation from one another since the vaccinated buffer the unvaccinated from catching the disease.

              Just for the medical pedants out there. “Vaccinated” derives from the vaccinia (pox) virus sp. and a vaccine is made up of this virus to combat this virus. For all other viruses you get immunity via an inoculation.

              02

              • #

                GA: Are you talking about side-affects or immunity?

                Both.

                And if multiple states in the US did this, say, presumably there would be different levels of “herd immunity” and they could be compared.

                Like I said, we really need large randomized trials, but that’s not going to happen, for lots of reasons including ethical considerations of deny people who want vaccines those vaccines and forcibly vaccinating those who dont. So we make do with the best info we can.

                10

              • #
                Gee aye

                I think you use Occams razor and keep it simple. Mixed populations would have too many variables so that you’d need many (hundreds, thousands?) trial populations in order to get data with reasonable error values.

                The keep it simple method – which still has many variables to control for – is populations with all or none inoculated and then comparing those values with epidemiological data from everywhere else.

                21

            • #
              Gee aye

              while I am in moderation Jo, how is what you are suggesting any different from epidemiological data gathering and analysis?

              02

            • #
              Robert Swan

              Jo,

              OR perhaps we might just compare the vaccinated to unvaccinated groups and collect all the data we can, and do gene studies to see if there are people more at risk of side effects?

              Gene studies? Sounds like a data dredge to me, and likely to give just as much dodgy ammo to the “antis” as to the “pros”.

              It didn’t make the headlines, but the same Women’s Health Initiative HRT study that concluded that HRT increased the risk of breast cancer showed a reduced risk of some other cancers (don’t recall which). Thing is that these were right at the edge of the 5% significance level where you have a pretty good chance of drawing a wrong conclusion. Evidently they applied some Mannian-style statistical voodoo and decided the protective effects were spurious, but the harmful effect was real.

              I think the sort of study you outline would be a minefield for people wanting to find real connections, but a goldmine for people with an axe to grind.

              10

  • #
    Another Ian

    The road to peak stupidity is paved with gems like this?

    “Breaking up is haaarrdd to do oo”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/08/17/breaking-up-is-haaarrdd-to-do-oo/

    But from comments there

    ” LarryD
    August 17, 2019 at 12:49 pm

    Yep. Hence:
    “Hard times creates strong men.”
    “Strong men create good times.”
    “Good times create weak men.”
    “Weak men create hard times.”
    https://i.imgur.com/lls70VP.jpg

    50

  • #
    kevin george

    test

    10

    • #
      RickWill

      Test received – all is good!!

      If you mean the cricket, then the big news is the damage to Steve Smith. His forearm copped a blinder from Archer (150+kph) and immediately developed a cricket ball sized lump on his forearm that was bandage and accompanied with a dose of pain killers. He batted on to then cop a similar whack on the side of the neck. It was literally horrifying. He instantly collapsed to the ground and the crowd was stunned. He was flat on the ground until checked by medical staff, then stood and argued with medicos about batting on. They took him in for checks, to a standing ovation from the majority of the crowd, and he returned after 40 minutes. He was out lbw for 95 to take Australia just 8 runs short of England’s total. At stumps England was 96 for 4 with lead of 104 runs. Good prospects for both sides of a result providing Smith is able to bat in his literally battered and bruised state. I have the impression Archer relished the task of crippling Smithh but he gave nothing more than what the Aussie quicks did to him and the English batsmen.

      60

  • #
    beowulf

    Here’s one from the Klimate Viking.

    “What I’m concerned about is whether we will do something or not, whether the people in power will react and act with necessary force.”

    With a bit of luck violent seasickness might curtail her dangerous, sanctimonious sermons for a week.

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2019/08/greta-thunberg-worried-leaders-using-insufficient-force-over-climate-change.html#comments

    And Dellingpole shares his incredulity at the prominent adult, attack-dog fans of Greta.

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/08/16/delingpole-greta-thunberg-patron-saint-of-the-age-of-stupidity/

    60

    • #
      RickWill

      Apparently the owner of the Mono60 that Greta is riding to the US will need to fly crew out for the return trip. Greta is proving to be a superstar dingbat. I am hopeful she cops a deserved pile of ridicule over this silly stunt.

      On the hand what she is doing is actually good for the planet. Can we ALL make a bigger effort to restore the level of atmospheric CO2 to a more sustainable level – help save the planet’s biomass; burn the fossilised biomatter that has starved our plants of essential CO2 for eons.

      120

  • #
    RickWill

    South Australia is already feeling the hurt of excessive lunchtime power. The forecast price for today is minus $1000 from 0930 to 1500.
    https://www.aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-dashboard#price-demand
    I expect this price will take a lot of wind generation out of the mix and should not be sustained that low for that long. So I copied the chart at 0900 for my records:
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq1iAj8Yo7jNgzg4ag6Vql9b7nfL

    One of the changes now apparent is the wind generation in Victoria. That is reducing the ability of SA wind generators to send power into Victoria.

    Also anyone putting panels on their roof supplying the grid have priority access to the market so can damage the economics of grid scale intermittents. Once the intermittents need to voluntarily curtail output, their proponents will rightly question the basis of their business model.

    The subsidies (LGCs) have reduced to a level where the wind generators cannot keep generating when prices are negative. Coal generators can accept negative prices for short periods in the knowledge that they can increase the prices when there is little wind and no sun.

    Wind generators cannot survive without increases in subsidies. I just hope that Australia does not follow the stupidity of the UK where wind generators are paid if they are curtailed due to system limits.

    100

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Rick it is rain & heavy cloud in the hills. No solar at all
      And with the wind picking up I suspect many of the wind plants will be feathered later today.
      With low power output a result.
      I guess we will need to rely on local gas power plants
      And imported coal power from the Latrobe valley.

      70

      • #
        RickWill

        could you mention who actually gets paid that figure of $(minus)1000.

        A minus sign means that any wind plants or gas plants in SA on line at the time will actually be charged for any power sent out power over the settlement period. The price did get to -$1000 for four 5-minute pricing interval and averaged -$839 over the 30-minute settlement period. So it is a hit to any wind plant producing through that period. The gas plants were directed to stay on line so they will be compensated separately for the stability service they provided.

        A number of wind plants in SA just curtailed output when the price went negative. The price went to zero in Victoria. The wind farms would be frantically rebidding when staring at -$1000 for for a 6 hour interval. When the load is so small (885MW) and the wind capacity is much greater (2142MW). It becomes very hard to manage the supply when there is so much variable generation. These are the 5-minute pricing intervals from 0930 to 1010 on Sunday:
        18/08/2019 09:30 -$100.00 1,083.44 248.23 886.83 51.70 Actual
        18/08/2019 09:35 -$1,000.00 1,034.49 235.55 847.07 48.10 Actual
        18/08/2019 09:40 -$1,000.00 1,036.40 255.00 827.95 46.47 Actual
        18/08/2019 09:45 -$37.05 991.36 248.72 789.11 46.39 Actual
        18/08/2019 09:50 -$1,000.00 959.92 237.79 758.66 36.44 Actual
        18/08/2019 09:55 -$1,000.00 951.15 245.31 726.27 20.34 Actual
        18/08/2019 10:00 -$1,000.00 965.68 256.41 728.22 18.78 Actual
        18/08/2019 10:05 -$1,000.00 983.93 256.59 745.70 18.16 Actual
        18/08/2019 10:10
        Not easy to get the output from wind farms controlled.

        You will see that coal generators will rebid at negative prices in their first band to stay on line when wind is forecast to be high. That means the wind will voluntarily curtail rather than taking the pricing hit.

        30

      • #
        RickWill

        Solar peaked at 421MW in SA on Sunday. At that time the actual wholesale demand was 885MW meaning solar peaked at 32% of the metered demand.

        20

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Rick,
          wouldn’t the solar (mostly household) output be taken out leaving generation required. i.e. total demand 885+421?

          There wasn’t a lot of solar generated in the Adelaide Hills today. Cloudy, rainy with outbursts of heavy rain and hail. Abot 6℃ Stirling 10.30 a.m. with occasional hail before, during and after, Balhannah 12-1 rain & hail, Woodside 1.30-4p.m. rain & hail. Don’t know what weather was like in Adelaide but lots of wood, gas AND electricity being used for heating in the Hills.

          10

          • #
            RickWill

            The wholesale demand was around 885MW; a little higher on the AEMO data. The 421MW of solar is not all metered at the retail level because some of it is behind the meter. The solar output is estimated.

            I expect that by late October and early November that the wholesale demand will be close to zero at Sunday lunchtime. It got as low as 400MW last year so should be lower this year.

            There are more wind generators in Victoria now and they are often in the same weather system as the wind generators in SA. So when they are all cranking SA wind generators lose their ability to send power into Victoria. If demand drops below 250MW in SA and there is no opportunity to export to Victoria then all wind generators in SA will be curtailed.

            10

      • #
        sophocles

        Nuclear.
        LFTR

        10

    • #
      Peter C

      Thanks Rick,

      I saw that predicted price for SA. The price did in fact briefly go down to -$850 but then recovered, I suppose because of market intervention by the AEMO.

      Non the less the SA electricity wholesale price has been negative since 0630. It is all unbelievably crazy, except that it actually happening!

      60

      • #
        Analitik

        I suspect that the wind farms were provided with a cease and desist order (ie told to curtail). But they will be compensated at the recovered market price for projected curtailed production (plus their PPA’s and RECs will be calculated on this basis)

        The price has also gone slightly negative in Victoria as at 11:30am.

        50

      • #
        RickWill

        The only order that went out from AEMO was to keep the gas plants on line for stability reasons and they will be compensated for that. There was a separate order relating to a constraint on the Murray link.

        It appears the wind farms bid their first block in at a price range between -$900 and -$1000 and the first five price bands are negative.

        Voltage and frequency control is already a nightmare in SA.
        https://www.electranet.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2019-02-18-System-Strength-Economic-Evaluation-Report-FINAL.pdf
        It will get worse before the plans to improve are implemented.

        Another problem is the zero marginal cost of wind generators. That means they all have the same merit order. So using price signals for progressive supply management is useless. The wind farms all now have different prices in their bands meaning not all wind farms reduced by the same amount. Some simply shut down while others operated at wind availability. It will become a complex game to stay connected for as long as possible to get income but avoid generating when the prices are negative.

        I don’t think anyone recognised the zero marginal cost of ambient energy sources being a problem! As the frequency of curtailment increases and the negative price excursions become more common, it will be a challenging exercise to set the bid prices to maximise income.

        30

    • #
      Analitik

      One of the changes now apparent is the wind generation in Victoria. That is reducing the ability of SA wind generators to send power into Victoria.

      Yes, one wonders how they will catch the wind that is always blowing “somewhere” if all the wind farms are closely co-located to regions where prevailing winds are strongest.

      40

    • #

      Coal generators can accept negative prices for short periods in the knowledge that they can increase the prices when there is little wind and no sun.

      There’s a point to be made here about a depth of perception. Those wind and solar supporters will always say that coal fired power ….. “Increase their prices”, (as quoted above) while nothing like that occurs at all.

      What actually happens is that because bids are locked in, and coal fired power is already generating and delivering its power, according to the AEMO price structure (shown at this link) and coal fired power, far and away the hugest of those suppliers, hence at the bottom of this bid structure image, ….. with their cost already locked in as they are already supplying, hence they CANNOT increase their prices.

      What happens, according to that AEMO bid cost structure is that every half hour the costs are averaged and EVERY supplier gets that average cost, no matter what their bid is, and, as more suppliers come in to deliver power, their costs always higher than the current cost, as you can deduce from that simple cost structure image, then the price for ALL electricity rises for that averaged half hour.

      So, the cost of electricity INCREASES, gee, who would have thought, eh!

      It then APPEARS that coal fired power has increased its prices, when nothing of the sort has happened at all, and those wind and solar urgers and supporters cash in by saying that coal fired power has ….. INCREASED their costs, when they have NOT done that at all.

      Get it right.

      Tony.

      130

      • #
        Robber

        Thanks to Tony’s great daily calculation of electricity generation, now into the 33rd week of the year, we can see the variations required to meet demand.
        Total generation has varied from a low of 16.5 GW to a high of 34.0 GW.
        Average generation has been 23.8 GW, with variations from 19.3-29.5 GW.
        Coal has delivered a minimum of 12.6 GW to a peak of 20.6 GW.
        Gas 0.5-7.2 GW.
        Hydro 0.4-5.9 GW.
        Add those three reliables together at their peak = 33.7 GW, almost meeting peak demand.
        But what about those “renewables” that are supposed to be our future?
        Wind has delivered a minimum of 0.17 GW and a maximum of 4.8 GW, average 1.8 GW.
        Large solar 0.0-1.9 GW, average 0.3 GW.
        Rooftop solar 0.0-4.8 GW, average 1.0 GW.
        After all the massive investments in wind and solar, aided by massive subsidies and regulations, all we can rely on is a minimum generation of 0.17 GW from a nameplate capacity of about 16 GW. What a waste.

        60

      • #
        RickWill

        Tony wrote:

        What actually happens is that because bids are locked in, and coal fired power is already generating and delivering its power, according to the AEMO price structure (shown at this link) and coal fired power, far and away the hugest of those suppliers, hence at the bottom of this bid structure image, ….. with their cost already locked in as they are already supplying, hence they CANNOT increase their prices.

        The chart you linked to is just a highly simplistic sample. The bidding is considerably more complex than this simplistic explanation and your understanding of it.

        The generator bids for pre-dispatch are made on a daily basis in 10 price bands. The bid in each band for each generating unit change on a daily basis. This document explains the bidding process:
        https://www.aemo.com.au/-/media/Files/PDF/0140-0040-pdf.pdf

        This link has all the daily bids and rebids for all the generating units for the last 60 days.
        http://www.nemweb.com.au/REPORTS/CURRENT/Yesterdays_Bids_Reports/
        You will see that the bids for each band for each generator change from day-to-day and there are numerous rebids based on forecast price.

        To think that dispatchable generators are not looking at the wind and solar generating forecasts and adjusting their prices in accordance with that is naive. Just look at the number of rebids.

        This AEMO paper gives some clue on strategic bidding:
        https://www.aemo.com.au/-/media/Files/Electricity/NEM/Planning_and_Forecasting/Inputs-Assumptions-Methodologies/2019/2019-Planning-and-Forecasting-Consultation-Paper.pdf

        The idea of merit order scheduling, based on short term marginal cost, is out the window when much of the connected capacity has zero marginal cost. What the coal generators have realised is that they can offer capacity at negative price and that knocks out the wind generators.

        You other statement:

        What happens, according to that AEMO bid cost structure is that every half hour the costs are averaged and EVERY supplier gets that average cost, no matter what their bid is,

        Is just wrong. The price accepted for each 5-minute price interval is the cost of the highest bidder being dispatched. The only averaging is the six 5-minute top bidder prices for each half hour to determine the average price for the 30-minute settlement period.

        11

        • #

          The chart you linked to is just a highly simplistic sample. The bidding is considerably more complex than this simplistic explanation and your understanding of it.

          Hey, wait a minute here Rick.

          I actually phoned up AEMO and asked about the old version of this image that they used, (shown at this link) and I was pointed to this new image they use.

          Then the engineer I was speaking to explained that this is ….. EXACTLY how the bid structure is used.

          Rick, this is not my understanding of it. It’s exactly the explanation given to me by the AEMO engineer actually in that area of operations.

          Everything I wrote in my comment, even that second thing you mention there is exactly as explained to me by that engineer.

          Please Rick, calling me a li@r is a bit rich.

          Tony.

          70

          • #
            RickWill

            The engineer you spoke to was no doubt attempting to simplify it for you. Go back to him and ask him how AEMO schedules wind generators given that they all have the same zero marginal cost and there is no merit order.

            Download this link and you find the pre-dispatch file for today’s forecasting.
            http://www.nemweb.com.au/REPORTS/CURRENT/Yesterdays_Bids_Reports/PUBLIC_YESTBID_201908170000_20190818040530.zip

            I was looking at the pricing bands for some of the wind farms. As an example this is for BLUFF1:
            D,YESTBID,BIDDAYOFFER,5,”2019/08/16 00:00:00″,BLUFF1,ENERGY,”2019/08/16 00:00:00″,”2019/08/15 10:41:22″,,”2019/08/15 13:00:00″,0,”1005~F~00 INITIAL BID~”,
            -972.8,-875.52,-144.95,-49.47,-34.05,-0.97,291.84,972.8,9728,14300.16,0,0,0,0,0,,”2019/08/15 10:41:22″,382,,DAILY

            This is for lkbonny2, although a rebid:
            D,YESTBID,BIDDAYOFFER,5,”2019/08/16 00:00:00″,LKBONNY2,ENERGY,”2019/08/16 00:00:00″,”2019/08/16 03:46:20″,”2019/08/16 04:05:00″,”2019/08/16 04:30:00″,0,”0345~A~SA PRICE PD@0345 FOR 0430 147 LWR THN 30PD@0330 SL ~”, -977.7,-976.72,-148.43,-79,-49.37,-16.33,-3.02,19.75,39.5,12592.06,0,0,0,0,0,,”2019/08/16 03:46:20″,352,,REBID

            Notice the slight differences in the bid prices for these wind farms.

            The point is that the pricing is dynamic and very complex. It is no longer related to merit order as all ambient generators have zero marginal cost so there is no means of scheduling one in preference to another. There was no problem when all their output could be happily exported to the grid – a different story now because curtailment is a frequent event and will become more frequent, in fact the norm.

            The coal generators are playing the same game. I have seen price bids from coal generators at negative prices. For example here is LYA2 for yesterday:
            D,YESTBID,BIDDAYOFFER,5,”2019/08/16 00:00:00″,LYA2,ENERGY,”2019/08/16 00:00:00″,”2019/08/15 10:41:17″,”2019/08/16 04:05:00″,”2019/08/15 13:00:00″,0,”1005~F~00 INITIAL BID~” ,-975.4,-0.01,8.73,29.27,47.79,57.55,94.61,234.1,487.7,14337.6,0,0,0,0,0,,”2019/08/15 10:41:17″,355,,DAILY

            So they are prepared to send out the first energy band at -$975.4.

            21

          • #
            Peter C

            Calm down Tony.

            Rick may be a bit abrasive, but I don’t think you should take it personally.

            I think comments from both of you are interesting and informative. It would be helpful to all if AEMO actually published their operating manual. Since they do not it takes a bit of information as gleaned from their site and intuition.

            40

    • #
      RickWill

      South Australian actual spot price averaged -$839 for one pricing period. The price stayed at -$1000 for 4 off 5-minute pricing intervals.

      40

      • #

        Just wondering here.

        It the average at one half hour during that down spike was $(minus)250, and the average at the start of the next half hour was $(minus)195, and no one (ever) gets that figure of $(minus)1000, as costings are done on the half hour basis, could you mention who actually gets paid that figure of $(minus)1000.

        And I was just also wondering that, as per your earlier comment at #14, which, umm, coal fired power plants in South Australia can actually accept those negative prices?

        Tony.

        60

        • #
          Another Ian

          Tony

          Re power. Did you see #30.1 in the “Sceptics get 49%” thread?

          30

          • #

            Thanks Ian, I missed that.

            Correct thinking though. I have lost count of the number of times I have mentioned similar at my daily data posts, when wind and solar combined are both at or below 1.5% of all generated power, and it’s not as rare as some people may think, especially at that daily peak power time around 6 to 6.45PM, and a couple of hours either side of that, when consumption is at its highest, and I have added the comment ….. “And just what do we do when we have occasions like this?”

            It was mentioned to me once that I was cherry picking that data when it was at that point one time, in fact lower than one percent at that time, and I said the same thing. Who cares if it is cherry picking one point in time like that, (and it’s actually low either side of that anyway) the statement still applies. Just what do you do when this happens?

            Tony.

            80

  • #
    pat

    George Meredith in the comments has the full FT article:

    17 Aug: Paul Homewood: Leaked Report Points To Wind Farm Failure Causing UK Blackout
    GWPF have news of this report from the FT (unfortunately pay-walled)…

    (excerpts)The provisional report, which was submitted to regulators on Friday, suggests for the first time that the Hornsea offshore wind farm, which is owned and run by Denmark’s Orsted, may have tripped offline seconds before an outage at a smaller, gas-fired station.
    The findings, which were relayed to the Financial Times by people briefed on the report, suggest the blackout may have been avoided if not for an error at the wind farm…

    If anybody sees a fuller version in other newspapers, please let me know.

    COMMENT: George Meredith (third comment)…ETC
    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/08/17/leaked-report-points-to-wind-farm-failure-causing-uk-blackout/

    60

    • #
      pat

      also mentioned in the comments! behind paywall:

      17 Aug: UK Times: Can lightning strike yet again on the grid?
      Chaos caused by last week’s power cuts leaves industry chiefs facing big questions
      by Emily Gosden
      When lightning struck part of Britain’s national electricity grid near Bedford shortly before 5pm on Friday last week, it should have been a routine event. Lightning strikes hit the grid more than 1,000 times every year, usually with no discernible impact.

      Yet on this occasion it triggered an unexpected chain of events that less than two minutes later had resulted in power being cut to more than a million homes around Britain and chaos being unleashed on the rail networks. Passengers spent hours trapped on immobile trains, while in Ipswich part of a hospital ended up in the dark.
      The blackout, the most serious in Britain in more than a decade, has raised searching questions for National Grid, the FTSE 100 company that is entrusted…
      https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/can-lightning-strike-yet-again-on-the-grid-6s6vd089q

      50

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Dearest Emily, the Greta Thumberg of Wall Street.

        Without the help of convenient lightning perhaps we could rely on statements from the Gas company running it. The plant had been reducing output for some time, and was down to 50% capacity**. They shut it down, as previously instructed, when demand DROPPED to 23MW. Subsequently they restarted it 30 minutes later (Hint: no lightning damage).

        The wind farm MIGHT have had a sudden jump in output from a strong wind gust but the operators have not been open about what happened, and have released differing information at various times. Such an increase would have reduced demand (below 23MW perhaps?). It is difficult (as intended?) to work out what actually happened there.

        The Grid had the Minister there and released a statement shortly before the blackout about how the UK had just set a new record 47.8% of capacity from renewables. This suggests that the wind was blowing strongly; even some believers in AGW might grasp this.

        **At 50% the plant has lost a lot off efficiency, and its CO2 emissions per MWh would have increased..

        40

  • #
    David Maddison

    Insane!

    It proves that “gender studies” departments are as useless as the “political science” specialty of “climate science” departments.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/50693/report-ny-university-gender-studies-department-hank-berrien?utm_source=shapironewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=081619-news&utm_campaign=position1

    “The journal of one New York university’s Women’s and Gender Studies program has published a paper that insists that milking cows is comparable to “sexual abuse,” “emotional trauma related to pregnancy,” and “nonconsensual hormone treatments,” according to Celine Ryan, writing for Campus Reform.”

    50

    • #
      David Maddison

      I meant to write:

      The…. “climate science” specialty of “political science” departments.

      50

  • #
    pat

    read all:

    16 Aug: REchargeNews: ‘Technical fault’ at world’s largest offshore wind farm before UK blackout
    Operator Orsted ‘fully confident’ Hornsea 1 would cope with ‘extremely rare’ event in future
    by Andrew Lee
    In a statement sent to Recharge a project spokesperson for Hornsea 1 said: “During a rare and unusual set of circumstances affecting the grid, Hornsea One experienced a technical fault which meant the power station rapidly de-loaded – that is it stopped producing electricity.
    “Normally the grid would be able to cope with a loss of this volume (800MW). If National Grid had any concerns about the operation of Hornsea 1 we would not be allowed to generate. The relevant part of the system has been reconfigured and we are fully confident should this extremely rare situation arise again, Hornsea 1 would respond as required.”

    National Grid will share blame for the outage – which affected more than a million Britons and caused transport chaos at peak commuter time – between a range of parties after an initial lightning strike on a power line, according to leaked media reports…

    The role of wind in the massive outage has sparked renewed debate in the UK over the growing role of variable renewables in the UK power system. However, National Grid has already stated that variability was not itself an issue at play in the incident.
    https://www.rechargenews.com/wind/1838142/technical-fault-at-worlds-largest-offshore-wind-farm-before-uk-blackout

    50

  • #
    beowulf

    Brexit update. Longwinded sorry.

    For those interested in Brexit and others who have more than a passing interest in democracy, some news: BoJo has authorised one of his ministers to sign a Statutory Instrument that technically sets in progress the break with the EU. This is expected to happen early this week before Boris meets Macron and Merkel, just to give the knife a little twist.

    Previously assented to by parliament, it repeals the EU Communities Act 1972 and only requires a scribble to flick it into gear. Theresa May refused to do even that simple act because of her pathological opposition to Brexit. On its own this is only symbolic, but it has a subtle yet crucial consequence: it opens the way for a sudden, unexpected Brexit. Read on.

    It has also been reported that Boris might be about to use the ultimate nuclear option and give a Consent Order in the Tilbrook court case I have alluded to previously. That Order would mean that the government no longer contests the case and agrees that Brexit took place by default on March 29th on WTO terms. Whammy, straight out of left field.

    A “senior Tory” has let slip that BoJo might be about to do the above to outflank all the Remoaners and their dirty tricks campaign. The Tilbrook case claimed that the initial extension of the Brexit date by Theresa May was done unlawfully in her haste to stop Brexit at all costs, and therefore Britain left the EU by default as originally stipulated in the legislation. That position was backed by a number of QCs, a retired Chief Justice and numerous lower-order lawyers. The court has been dragging its heels on the case since April because it is a pro-Brexit case, unlike the Miller case which was designed to frustrate Brexit and was therefore rushed through.

    Even if things proceed without a positive outcome in the case, short of a coup, the anti-Brexit camp is running out of options in the time frame available, a 2nd referendum or an election can’t save them now before the end of October. They are currently in court fighting the possibility that Boris might prorogue parliament— which is the prerogative of the PM/Privy Council — before the 31st to stop any funny business before the next default Brexit date on Halloween.

    Another nuclear option is the No Confidence Motion put by the Lib Dems a while back which didn’t make it onto the Order of Business in the House, but which is still sitting on the books smouldering away. Boris could, once parliament resumes and at a time of his choosing, activate that motion and organise his own party members to vote against him to bring on a general election also at an advantageous time, trounce Labour and the Lib Dems. Once an election is called, Parliament is dissolved and the Remainers become impotent. Only the (Brexit-dominated) Cabinet remains to act as a caretaker government. That election would take place AFTER the default Brexit had already happened. A lot of Farage’s disaffected Tory support has swung back behind Boris since he has been making the right Brexit noises.

    Comrade Corbyn is also trying to sell himself as an alternative PM and has threatened to go to HM the Q and demand the keys to No.10, but is getting laughed out of the room by both sides of parliament. No one wants an old fashioned Marxist with visions of a communist utopia Britain.

    So the upshot is that Britain might soon be free of the EU; able to trade freely on WTO terms; able to make its own laws (GASP!); instantly £39 billion better off and much more in the coming years; free of the decaying Eurozone; free of the Schengen Zone immigration dictates; free of the European Court of In-Justice; free of the ominous Euro-Army of Merkel/Macron; free of rule by drunken, corrupt, unelected bureaucrats like Juncker and Co, and the alarming new boss Ursula von der Leyen with her iron jackboot mentality.

    160

    • #
      Lance

      beowulf, I very much hope things roll your way. Assuming they do, a bilateral trade agreement between UK and US might be mutually beneficial. At least it wouldn’t include EU influence. Methinks Merkel has her hands full with the declining GE economy and migrant issues. If GE fails over, the EU is toast and UK would be better off without that baggage. Just a thought.

      90

    • #
      Annie

      Nicely summed up Beowulf, thank you. Did you notice too the ridiculous suggestion that Ken Clarke (ultra-remainer) should be caretaker PM. Crackpot.

      60

    • #

      ‘So the upshot is that Britain might soon be free of the EU; able to trade freely on WTO terms; able to make its own laws (GASP!); instantly £39 billion better off and much more in the coming years; free of the decaying Eurozone; free of the Schengen Zone immigration dictates; free of the European Court of In-Justice; free of the ominous Euro-Army of Merkel/Macron; free of rule by drunken, corrupt, unelected bureaucrats like Juncker and Co, and the alarming new boss Ursula von der Leyen with her iron jackboot mentality.’

      Play it again, Sam.

      80

    • #
      GD

      BoJo has authorised one of his ministers to sign a Statutory Instrument that technically sets in progress the break with the EU

      This is Boris’ time to shine, to mark his place in history, his legacy. As long as he doesn’t fudge it, he will be remembered as a great Prime Minister of the UK.

      Let’s hope he has the courage and fortitude to see it through.

      40

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      It’s good reading this stuff where the people are going to be freed and even better to see the cracks opening up.
      Macron and Merkel under pressure and Hong Kong giving the PRC nightmares. It would be really exciting to see the HK disease migrate to China but suspect that the people there haven’t got the background to help them see the possibilities.

      KK

      40

    • #
      beowulf

      Update on the update.

      • The Brexit Sec has just signed the Statutory Instrument to set Brexit in motion.
      • The remainers appear to have won in their battle to stop prorogation of parliament to thwart their activities, although it was agreed out of court so it is not definitive.
      • At least 100 Tory Remainer MPs have sent a petition to BoJo demanding that parliament be recalled immediately and kept constantly in session until Oct 31st so they can do their worst. This is being orchestrated by the snake Dominic Grieve.
      • Revocation of Brexit is being spoken of again.
      • 50 Labour MPs have said they will vote with Boris if he gets an EU agreement, rather than vote against him and have a No Deal outcome.
      • Boris is off the see Merkel and Macron in a few days, but Merkel has already said there will be no changes to the Theresa May Agreement and now that Tories are openly defying their PM, Merkel will be grinning and even more unyielding.
      • Coming back empty-handed, Boris will have more of an excuse to use the nuclear option and agree that Brexit really took place on March 29th.
      • While ever the Remainers are obsessively focussed on October 31st they will not see the flanking attack coming from the 29th.
      • Boris has 2 excellent strategists advising him in Dominic Cummings and the matchless Jacob Rees-Mogg. Cummings has had his people ‘workshopping’ every possible Remainer scenario so he can be ready with counter-measures.
      • Boris still has Farage putting a blow torch to his feet if he tries to back-slide — which he has done in the past — and that should help to stiffen his resolve.

      50

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall – vague about timing now:

    16 Aug: UK Times: Lightning strike and wind farm fault triggered blackout chaos
    by Emily Gosden
    A technical fault at the world’s largest offshore wind farm was among a series of failures that resulted in Britain’s worst blackouts in a decade, according to initial analysis by National Grid.
    Hornsea One wind farm off the coast of Yorkshire and Little Barford gas-fired power plant in Bedfordshire both suddenly reduced their electricity output shortly before 5pm last Friday…

    National Grid, the company responsible for keeping the lights on, is due to submit a report today to Ofgem, the regulator, which could impose fines if it finds wrongdoing. The government has commissioned a separate review…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lightning-strike-and-wind-farm-fault-triggered-blackout-chaos-sbsvcft50

    30

  • #
    pat

    reminder:

    19 Sept 2018: CNBC: Orsted sells half of vast offshore wind farm for $5.88 billion
    by Anmar Frangoul
    Made up of 174 Siemens Gamesa turbines, Hornsea 1 will have a total capacity of 1,218 megawatts.
    This is enough to power more than 1 million homes in the U.K., according to Danish energy business Orsted.
    Danish energy business Orsted has signed an agreement to sell 50 percent of the Hornsea 1 offshore wind farm to Global Infrastructure Partners (GIP).
    The total sales price for the facility, which is located in the North Sea off the English coast, comes to around £4.46 billion ($5.88 billion), which is set to be paid between 2018 and 2020, Orsted said in a statement Tuesday…

    “This is our third partnership with GIP, and we are delighted to have one of the world’s largest infrastructure funds as a partner, in what will be the world’s largest offshore wind farm,” Ole Kjems Sorensen, Orsted’s executive vice president for M&A, partnerships and asset management, said in a statement…
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/19/orsted-sells-half-of-vast-offshore-wind-farm-for-5point88-billion.html

    Wikipedia: Global Infrastructure Partners
    Global Infrastructure Partners (GIP) is an infrastructure investment fund making both equity and selected debt investments. GIP is headquartered in New York City and its equity investments are in infrastructure assets in the energy, transport and water/waste sectors. GIP employs approximately 150 investment and operational professionals and has offices in New York, London and Sydney and operational headquarters in Stamford, Connecticut. In the aggregate, its portfolio companies employ approximately 21,000 people…

    Global Infrastructure Partners was established in May 2006. Two of GIP’s founding investors in its first fund, GIP I, were Credit Suisse and General Electric. Each of these investors committed approximately 9% of the US$5.64 billion of GIP I’s total committed capital…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Infrastructure_Partners

    Wikipedia: Adebayo Ogunlesi
    In July 2006, Ogunlesi started the private equity firm, Global Infrastructure Partners (GIP), a joint venture whose initial investors included Credit Suisse and General Electric. He currently serves as Chairman and Managing Partner…
    In October 2012, Ogunlesi was appointed to the Board of Directors at Goldman Sachs. On July 24, 2014, he was named Lead Director…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adebayo_Ogunlesi

    31

  • #
    pat

    15 Aug: Architecture&Design: Industry leaders taking action on climate change
    City of Sydney
    “Our C40 Cities Women4Climate mentees, who all live and work in Sydney, were chosen from a competitive field of women at the forefront of global climate action,” says lord mayor Clover Moore…
    The program includes projects to rebuild the energy market to be clean and sustainable, green the built environment one building at a time, help the finance industry to understand that climate risk equals financial risk, develop schemes to split incentives between tenants and landlords for energy efficiency upgrades, and create a supportive network of renewable energy professionals…

    Women4Climate Sydney mentees and mentors include…
    •Dani Alexander (Researcher, Institute for Sustainable Futures) mentored by Jacki Johnson (Co-chair, United Nations Environment Programme Finance Initiative Global Steering Committee and Co-chair, Australian Sustainable Finance Initiative)…

    •Melinda Dewsnap (Sustainability Engagement Manager – Residential, City of Sydney) mentored by Naomi Hogan (National Coordinator, Lock the Gate Alliance)…

    •Claire Higgins (Emergency Management Support Officer, Northern Beaches Council) mentored by Bernie Hobbs (Presenter and Science Writer, ABC)…

    •Anna Jane Linke (Founder and CEO, Seaside Scavenge) mentored by Blair Palese (Founder and Director, 350.org Australia)…

    •Jillian Reid (Principal, Senior Responsible Investment Specialist, Mercer) mentored by Tina Perinotto (Managing Editor and Publisher, Fifth Estate)…READ ALL
    https://www.architectureanddesign.com.au/people/women-leaders-taking-action-climate-change#

    14 Aug: TheFifthEstate: The City of Sydney has 20 reasons to support women as climate leaders
    by Georgia Roach
    Starting in May this year, the program will run until April 2020, culminating in a Women4Climate Conference at Sydney’s Town Hall…
    Mentors include founder and chief executive officer of climate change action group 1 Million Women, Natalie Isaacs; the director and chief executive of the Australian Museum, Kim McKay AO; the CEO of Greater Sydney Commission, Dr Sarah Hill; and managing editor and publisher of The Fifth Estate, Tina Perinotto.
    “These 20 women represent the smart and fearless climate advocates we urgently need to tackle our climate emergency,” said the Lord Mayor…

    The mentees’ projects range from greener energy solutions to financial frameworks for climate change and pathways for specific venues, such as the Opera House, to achieve climate positive goals…
    Another mentee, Jacqueline Fetchet, is a renewable energy lawyer with a passion for building communities and sharing knowledge. Ms Fetchet is also a founding member of the Pingala community solar co-operative and her project, Bright Sparks, builds on that experience…
    Ms Fetchet is being mentored by Monica Barone, the CEO of the City of Sydney and a member of the Australian Institute of Company Directors and Chief Executive Women…
    https://www.thefifthestate.com.au/articles/the-city-of-sydney-has-20-reasons-to-support-women-as-climate-leaders/

    12

  • #
    Another Ian

    SA power 18/08/2019 12:20

    Demand 1120

    generated 340

    Wind etc 1210

    Exported 373. 57

    10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Alan Jones (conservative Australian radio commentator) threatened with termination of contract over climate remarks.

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/alan-jones-threatened-with-termination-of-his-contract-if-he-does-it-again?fbclid=IwAR11io-NHBvmmL-VG8MOqDU7FMA4UEqvtscEYMj7GLGnifwJ9-I206KUr3E

    QUOTE

    Macquarie Media’s chairman has told Alan Jones his contract will be terminated if he repeats commentary of the same nature as his remarks about NZ’s PM.

    Shock jock Alan Jones has been told he will be fired if there is a repeat of offensive comments he made about New Zealand’s prime minister.

    The controversial broadcaster on Thursday criticised Jacinda Ardern after she said: “Australia has to answer to the Pacific” on climate change at a forum in the island nation of Tuvalu.

    Mr Jones said Ms Ardern was a “joke” for preaching about climate change and said Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison should “shove a sock down her throat”.

    Scott Morrison has joined the growing voices calling for Alan Jones to apologise to New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern for Scott Morrison slams Alan Jones’ call to ‘shove sock down throat’ of Jacinda Ardern Macquarie Media chairman Russell Tate said the comments had caused offence to many people but that Mr Jones has publicly apologised for them.

    The breakfast radio host recognised his comments were “careless, unnecessary and wrong” and “should have been more clearly thought out”, Mr Tate said.

    “He indicated that he had apologised sincerely to Prime Minister Ardern for any offence given, and had certainly not intended to suggest any harm through his comments,” the chairman said in a statement on Saturday night.

    SEE LINK FOR REST

    20

    • #
      Zane

      Shock jock shocks people! How shocking!

      60

    • #
      Greebo

      Macquarie sacking Jones would be equivalent to the BBC sacking Clarkson, except Macquarie doesn’t have guaranteed funding. I’m not really a fan, but Jones, Hadley and Smith could merely go elsewhere, taking audience and market share with them.

      40

  • #
    pat

    rubbish, apart from:

    18 Aug: ABC: Pacific Islands Forum: How Enele Sopoaga and Scott Morrison lost when Australia scuttled Tuvalu’s hopes
    By foreign affairs reporter Melissa Clarke in Tuvalu
    Morrison’s emphasis on money insults some Pacific leaders
    Australia raised objection after objection to statements on climate change that would have implications for Mr Morrison back in Canberra: emissions reduction, coal use and financial support for the UN’s Green Climate Fund, as well as the description of climate change as a crisis…

    Mr Morrison holds the view that if Australia increased its emission reduction ambition — even significantly — any benefit would be quickly swamped by the carbon pollution that results from China’s investment in coal-fired power generation.
    Advice prepared for the Prime Minister ahead of PIF, and obtained by the ABC, shows China invested $36 billion in new coal-fired electricity generation in 27 nations last year.
    The advice to the Prime Minister concluded that if Australia shut its entire electricity generation grid, China would replace these emissions within six days…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-18/pacific-islands-forum-2019-climate-change-focus/11417422

    AUDIO: 4min04sec: 16 Aug: TheWire: Pacific Island Forum Leaders Discuss Climate Change Threat
    This week political leaders met at the Pacific Island Forum to discuss the region’s climate crisis and security challenges. However, the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison has been criticised for his lack of initiative to help tackle climate change in the Pacific Island. With other forum leaders calling its now a matter of survival and not the economy.
    Produced By Sarah Richards
    Featured in story
    Dr Tess Newton Cain – Associate Professor at The University of Queensland
    Baron Waqa – President of Nauru
    http://thewire.org.au/story/pacific-island-forum-leaders-discuss-climate-change-threat/

    31

  • #
    pat

    from the same Wire program, broadcast on community radio around Australia:

    AUDIO: 4min33sec: 16 Aug: TheWire: UN reports on climate change and food security
    Farming and food production may be under threat, according to a report by the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. The reports cites rising temperatures as being detrimental to arable land. As a result, food security for millions may be at risk. What can be done to ensure food for people across the world and to adapt to a changing climate?
    Produced By Jedd Boyan
    Featured in story
    Food security expert and meat scientist Professor Louwrens Hoffman, University of Queensland
    http://thewire.org.au/story/un-reports-on-climate-change-and-food-security/

    laws should be changed for XR:

    AUDIO: 5min01sec: 16 Aug: TheWire: Adani protest arrests spark freedom of expression fears
    With Adani being widely critised several climate change activists have taken to the street in protest.
    The government has arrested several protesters who have used unlawful protest techniques causing the argument on whether in some issue freedom of expression trumps the law.
    Could a new law in QLD bring these parties together?
    Produced By Farah Tawfeek
    Featured in story
    Shane Primrose- Spokesperson for Extinction Rebellion
    Deb Frecklington- LNP Leader in QLD
    Rebecca Walsh- Senior Lecturer at the TC Beirne School of Law, Human Rights Researcher
    http://thewire.org.au/story/adani-protests-crackdown-sparks-freedom-of-expression-fears-law-changes/

    01

  • #
    pat

    18 Aug: ABC: Canegrowers make last-ditch appeal to the Queensland Government to stop tough reef protection laws
    ABC Wide Bay By Johanna Marie
    Matt Leighton from Bundaberg Canegrowers said one of the concerns with the legislation was that the director-general of a department in Brisbane could decide how much fertiliser a canefarmer, or a small crop grower, could apply to their crop.
    “It’s hard to think that someone who may never have stepped onto a cane farm or a farm, or doesn’t have an agronomic background, is telling people who live and breathe and work on their farms … what they need to do on their farms,” he said.

    It is also the first time reef regulations will be imposed on the state’s multi-billion-dollar horticulture industry.
    “Tomatoes, sweet potatoes, avocados, macadamias, chillies, all those crops that are grown here in Bundaberg will be impacted by this as well,” Mr Leighton said…READ ON
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-18/great-barrier-reef-laws-should-be-put-on-hold-canefarmers-say/11424498

    11

  • #
    pat

    16 Aug: ABC: Australia accused of putting coal before Pacific ‘family’ as region calls for climate change action
    By Erin Handley
    “The Pacific Islanders desperately want us to phase out coal mining. Instead, Morrison backs it in 100%,” Greens MP Adam Bandt said on Twitter…
    Labor’s Pat Conroy, Shadow Minister for International Development and Pacific and a spokesman on climate change, said Mr Morrison’s Pacific “step-up”‘ had been “completely undermined by his intransigence on climate change”…
    Environmental groups also criticised the climate clash.
    “Coal will endanger the environment, threaten jobs and expose even more Australians who are already suffering from the volatility of extreme weather as a result of carbon pollution,” said Rachel Kyte, CEO and special representative of the UN Secretary-General for Sustainable Energy for All…

    Richie Merzian, Climate and Energy program director at The Australia Institute, said the group’s research revealed Mr Morrison’s “carbon credits loophole is equivalent to eight years of fossil fuel emissions for the rest of the Pacific and New Zealand — and the Pacific rightly asked Australia to cancel them”.
    “The world was watching to see if Australia meets or sinks the hopes of its Pacific Islands neighbours,” he said.
    “Australia’s Prime Minister waved a lump of coal around Parliament — and now he has put his love of coal ahead of the Pacific’s survival.”
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-16/australia-slammed-watering-down-action-climate-change-pacific/11420986

    18 Aug: 7News: Labor backs resistance to coal mine ban
    by Marnie Banger, AAP
    Federal Labor would not have agreed to ban the creation of new coal mines as suggested by some small Pacific Island nations when leaders from the region met this week.
    Opposition frontbencher Penny Wong has confirmed her party wouldn’t have made such a commitment.
    “Of course not,” she told ABC’s Insiders on Sunday.
    “Coal remains an important industry for Australia and it remains part of the global energy mix.”…

    Senator Wong said coal is just one matter Pacific Island nations are concerned about, accusing Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s government of failing on other scores…
    https://7news.com.au/politics/labor-backs-resistance-to-coal-mine-ban-c-405299

    11

  • #
    yarpos

    Stumbled on this description of autonomous driving system withh the focus on Tesla’s image based approach vs the rest of the industry LIDAR approach. An interesting read.

    https://www.subtwt.com/?p=3770

    10

  • #
    pat

    apart from The Guardian & a weak piece from the Beeb, foreign press not interested in this story at all:

    18 Aug: Guardian: ‘Our people are dying’: Australia’s climate confrontation in the Pacific
    Leaders at this week’s Pacific Islands Forum couldn’t disguise their anger over Canberra’s climate crisis ‘red lines’
    by Kate Lyons in Funafuti
    It was always going to be a showdown on the climate crisis…
    And PIF 2019 turned out to be exactly that: a reckoning on the climate emergency confronting the Pacific…

    “I appeal to Australia to do everything possible to achieve a rapid transition from coal to energy sources that do not contribute to climate change,” (Fiji’s prime minister, Frank Bainimarama) said, adding that coal posed an “existential threat” to Pacific countries…
    Sopoaga said the next day he had told Morrison at one point during discussions: “You are trying to save your economy, I am trying to save my people.”
    Emotions ran high, with Sopoaga revealing that at one point during discussions, the Tongan prime minister, Akilisi Pohiva, cried as he reflected on a presentation given by two young women at the climate change summit earlier in the week about their fears for the future.
    Pohiva cut a dignified but heartrending figure throughout the week…

    The Fijian prime minister expressed his anger with how events had unfolded in the leaders’ retreat, telling the Guardian that Morrison had been “very insulting and condescending” and that his behaviour could lead countries to reject Australia in favour of engagement with China.
    “After what we went through with Morrison, nothing can be worse than him,” Bainimarama said…
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/18/our-people-are-dying-australias-climate-confrontation-in-the-pacific

    ***the critics are simply the Pafific leaders:

    16 Aug: BBC: Pacific forum turns into row with Australia over climate goals
    ***Critics have blamed Australia for undermining a joint statement from Pacific island nations which called for stronger action on climate change…
    The statement fell short of a more ambitious communiqué endorsed by many Pacific states earlier this week, which had demanded an immediate end to coal mining.
    Australia has refused to submit to restrictions on coal to protect its local industry. In June, it approved a controversial major new coal mine in Queensland to be operated by India’s Adani…
    Mr Sopoaga said Tongan Prime Minister Akilisi Pohiva had been left in tears after one climate change presentation at the forum, saying “such is the passion”…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-49365918

    10

    • #
      Zane

      Fittingly, the word ” propaganda ” has its origins in the Latin for ” propagation of the faith ” as the Catholic Church in the middle ages sought to spread its doctrine around the world. The Pacific Islands have drunk deep of the Klimate Koolaid. They now seek rewards, but material, not spiritual, and in this world, not the next.

      Give us money! Sea levels are rising! We to build a sea wall! Hey, my brother-in-law has a concreting business…

      20

    • #
      yarpos

      Still waiting for the Pacific Islands governments to ban “fossil fuelled” plane flights to and from their various locations. If they want rapid action , thats something they are in control of that they could do today. After all its not about the money its about survival!! people are dying!! (somehwere, but the they always are)

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    Amazing the the left in the US are wishing for a recession, a collapse of the economy to get rid of Trump. Millionaire commentators like Bill Maher says it would be worth it. Not since Marie Antoinette’s Let them eat cake has there been such great evidence of a gulf between the elites than to wish all the Deplorables out of work and starving. If they can call people deplorables, these commentators and Hollywood stars are contemptible.

    It’s not about the Climate. It’s not about immigration and open borders or toxic male behaviour or #metoo and certainly not islamophobic like je suis Charlie, it is just a demonstration of huge income, big city privilege and a total contempt for country workers who are not paid millions and supply all the food and products and income for the cities and their elites. In the US, Brazil, Italy, Hungary, Poland, the UK and even Canada and Australia, the tide is turning sharply with rapid Political Climate Change.

    80

    • #
      Greebo

      My son ( 36, ADF member, veteran of Iraq and East Timor, intelligent but not educated, conservative like most soldiers ) said to me that the US was going into recession.. I asked where he’d heard that. He said his wife had got it from Fakebook. Ye Gods. I told him to wake up and look for himself. I am sue he may….. He doesn’t like being conned.

      60

      • #
        TdeF

        I like that he likes to think for himself. Great. It is the essential point of all education. Cogito ergo sum.

        That is also the essential difference between conservatives and the left of politics but also the conservative weakness in an election. The strength of the left is that they all agree on everything no matter how absurd and self abusive and damaging. These are people who get their opinions from others who decide the issues of the day.

        The self labelled socialists also call anyone who disagrees extreme right and Fascist and Alt Right. Again nuts because the Fascists were socialists. No wonder they try to stop the teaching of modern history. The Nazis were National Socialists, thus the name. Totalitarians like Maduro call themselves socialist. Communists also call themselves socialists. a tolerable name in places like Australia, a nation of refugees from communism or people who fought it.

        And the AntiFA are the same black shirted, masked violent Fascists as usual in big gangs assaulting conservatives. Hitler had brown shirts until he assassinated the leadership and they changed to black shirts. It’s the uniform of the oppressors. Incidentally Hitler’s designer was Hugo Boss, for brown shirts, SS uniforms and the Hitler Youth.

        30

        • #
          Greebo

          Not to mention Mussolini’s Blackshirts.

          20

        • #
          Gee aye

          my experience in the conservative side of campaigns is that things go wrong when we assume this

          The strength of the left is that they all agree on everything no matter how absurd and self abusive and damaging

          I notice you don’t back this up with anything convincing.

          03

          • #
            AndyG55

            Odd that you haven’t notice this fact about the left.

            The absolute group-think lack of mentality.

            Could it be because you are one of them?

            Try a mirror some day, other than for preening.

            00

      • #
        yarpos

        Facebook = news source for many. They see nothing wrong with that. As the BOM would say its the new normal.

        20

  • #
    liberator

    So did anyone bother with the ABC show “Climate Change: The Facts”? According to the Oztam ratings it achieved around 522,000 metro viewers, which put it in the top 10 at position 9. It dint fall in any of the top five demographic groups – I’d love to know where it did fall and in which demographic group it was the most strongest. – Probably the over 50′s – who tend to be the ABC mainstay.

    I’m not too sure how many regional viewers watched. So who watched this show, those who “believe” or those who don’t and wanted to see what they had to say? I certainly didn’t bother because we all know what the ABC does with this story, one sided and no consideration for the counter argument.

    40

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      I watched it, but my recorded version, and in short, almost digestible bits, to see what was presented. The last, desperate bit was about Greta T, which to me was a sign of utter desperation on the part of the producers. Their use of someone who hasn’t finished school yet to deny the challenges of true scientists borders on, or epitomises child abuse on one hand and insulting to all thinking people on the other.

      Other than that, the photography was quite good.

      (I don’t know if my recording would be counted in their statistics.)
      Cheers
      Dave B

      80

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      liberator:

      I recorded it, in fact still have it recorded. When I tried viewing it I got about 3 minutes in and the Swedish Zombie said something (what I can’t recall) and I stopped viewing.
      I may go back and view it, then again my tolerance for such illogical assertions with no proof are shortening every time the gullible (including ABC editors) has been getting less and less.

      60

    • #
      FijiDave

      Did they mean “Climate: Change the Facts”?

      80

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    17 Aug: UK Times: Greta Thunberg’s yacht trip to New York not as green as it may seem
    by Ben Webster
    Greta Thunberg’s decision to cross the Atlantic in a “zero-carbon yacht” may generate more emissions than it saves because of flights taken by the crew…
    However, Team Malizia, which operates the 60ft yacht, said two of her crew would be flying to New York to bring the yacht back to Europe.
    In addition, the two sailors travelling across the Atlantic with Greta and her father, Svante, an actor, may fly home, a spokeswoman said.
    Boris Herrmann, the skipper, and Pierre Casiraghi, the nephew of Prince Albert of Monaco and grandson of the late Prince Ranier III of Monaco …
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/greta-thunberg-s-yacht-trip-to-new-york-not-as-green-as-it-may-seem-6fsn5sbpz

    17 Aug: Aviation24.be: Atlantic flights for Greta would have generated less CO2 than her sailing
    By André Orban
    For the return transfer of the yacht, however, a crew of 5 flies from Europe to the USA and the skipper himself flies back. Overall, the action, therefore, causes more CO2 emissions than if Thunberg had flown with her father…

    About five employees would sail the yacht back to Europe. Of course, they fly over there. The skipper Boris Herrmann will also take the plane for the return journey to Europe. The sailing trip triggers at least six climate-damaging air travel across the Atlantic. If Thunberg had flown with her father, only two would have been necessary to come to New York…

    When asked if it would not have been more climate-friendly if Thunberg had travelled on a container ship, her spokesman Andreas Kling replied: “This is a thought that is actually being considered for the return to Europe.”…
    https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/environment/atlantic-flights-for-greta-would-have-generated-less-co2-than-her-sailing/

    can’t see any mention of the flights taken by media specifically assigned to follow Greta’s every move.

    20

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Was hoping for a little hurricane action in the Atlantic to, you know, jazz it up somewhat for (the media?) our intrepid landlubber and dealer of childish nightmares (can a minor be charged with inflicting nightmares upon other minors?) but apart from 2 small tropical storms back in May and July – Andrea and Barry – the 2019 Atlantic Hurricane Season has been about the quietest EVAH!!!!

      http://tropical.atmos.colostate.edu/Realtime/index.php?loc=northatlantic

      Waiting in the wings are these, as yet, unused names: Chantal, Dorian, Erin, Fernand, Gabrielle… what? No Greta?

      10

  • #
    pat

    ehind paywall:

    17 Aug: UK Times: Edinburgh council gives green light for children to skip class for climate strikes
    by Mark McLaughlin
    School pupils in Edinburgh will face no punishment if they skip classes for regular “climate strikes” throughout the year…
    Edinburgh city council’s education committee yesterday resisted pressure to grant unlimited “authorised” leave to pupils but the city’s schoolchildren will not face sanctions if they take regular unauthorised leave with their parents’ permission. Parents can normally be referred to social services and face fines if they allow their child to take regular days off during term time…

    PICS: 16 Aug: BBC: Edinburgh youth climate strikers allowed one school day off a year
    Youth climate strikers are to be given permission to take part in protests for one authorised school day per year.
    However, Edinburgh councillors say no punishment will be levelled at pupils or parents if they choose to strike over a longer period.
    The city council’s education, children and families committee approved a motion by the SNP-Labour coalition to limit authorised absences to one day.
    This was despite a plea from activists to back the pupils’ action…

    A report said “almost all head teachers were not in support of children’s absence being authorised” by councillors as it had “devalued the hard work they had undertaken in working with parents who did not value good attendance at school”.
    Sandy Boyd, a youth climate activist from Trinity Academy, said the decision was “morally wrong”.
    He added: “The youth climate strike movement has brought change across the world.
    “It will stop this progress dead in its tracks. You are trying to suppress young people’s opinions on matters that will affect young people.”…READ ALL
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-49369163

    17 Aug: BrinkwireCanada: Edinburgh limits pupil climate strike approval to once a year
    Activists vow to keep on after council votes to authorise only one day’s school absence
    By Brinkwire
    Young activists have vowed to keep protesting in Edinburgh despite the city council saying it will only authorise pupils to miss school once a year to attend climate strikes…

    Sandy Boyd, a member of Scottish Youth Climate Strike, said the decision was disappointing but added: “I’m still confident that our movement won’t be deterred by it. The council is short-sighted if it thinks one strike a year is enough to make this change. This movement will not stop and we’ll keep striking no matter what.”
    With Scottish secondary school pupils returning from the summer holidays this week, strikers moved their regular Friday action from Holyrood to the council’s offices at lunchtime, with about 30 young people congregating.

    Boyd said: “These actions are happening on a weekly basis, but authorisation is good on big dates like September 20 and 27 because lots of people want to come out [for the global climate strikes] and it allows them to come out feeling safe, and that they won’t be reprimanded.”
    https://en.brinkwire.com/canada/edinburgh-limits-pupil-climate-strike-approval-to-once-a-year/

    00

  • #
    Zane

    Disgraceful the Pacific ” leaders ” dissing ScoMo. None of them could even pass Year 10 science in an Auckland high school and their supposed fear of sea level rises is simply climate beggary. What a bunch of coco loco grifters.

    80

  • #
    pat

    where would the planet be without the carbon police at The Guardian and the Beeb?

    17 Aug: Guardian: Number of flights taken by officials from department tackling climate crisis soars
    Number of flights taken by BEIS staff rises to 4,500 from 2,700 in previous year despite carbon footprint
    The Whitehall officials responsible for tackling the climate crisis dramatically increased their domestic flights last year despite the huge carbon footprint associated with aviation.
    Officials from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) took more than 4,500 domestic business flights in the last financial year, according to its annual report. The number of flights taken the year before was fewer than 2,700…

    The figures emerged in the same week the climate activist Greta Thunberg embarked on an ambitious voyage from Plymouth to the US on a zero-carbon, solar-powered yacht to avoid the damaging greenhouse gases emitted during a long-haul flight…
    Doug Parr, the chief climate scientist of Greenpeace, said: “Every part of the economy needs to be making carbon reductions, and within government one would expect BEIS to take the lead…

    The department’s total greenhouse gas emissions, including flights, fell below 22,700 tonnes of carbon in the last financial year, down from more than 30,300 tonnes the year before…
    The emissions reduction is due to a steep fall in the amount of gas used to heat the department after undertaking energy efficiency upgrades to its offices at 10 Victoria Street.
    BEIS said last year that it would fit double-glazing and a new boiler system to the offices after an investigation by the BBC last summer revealed that its building had the lowest possible energy efficiency ratings.
    Under a freedom of information request the broadcaster found that four of the 11 offices leased by BEIS received the lowest G rating, while the headquarters in Victoria Street had an E rating.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/17/uk-officials-in-charge-of-tackling-climate-crisis-took-far-more-flights-last-year

    00

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    16 Aug: UK Times: There’s a big green backlash coming our way
    Consensus on the need for clean energy is likely to be overturned when voters feel the economic realities kicking in
    by Martha Gill
    Brexit, once fuzzy, is coming into focus. It will be clean, it will be hard, it will be red, white and blue. Will it, though, be green? The question is interesting because on October 31 many of the country’s environmental rules will cease to be. Environmentalists are fairly optimistic: there is enough global pressure, enough party consensus, they reckon, for the rules mostly to end up where they started. But they shouldn’t be so sure.

    Here’s their logic. Party politics loom large, but the planet is considered larger, just about: the main parties are busy replicating each other’s promises on climate change. In his speech on the steps of Downing Street, Boris Johnson talked proudly of a country that liked animals and was “leading the world in the battery technology that will help cut CO2 and tackle climate change” and “produce green jobs for the next generation”. True, the environmental zealot Michael Gove had been shuffled out of his job as environment secretary, but the super-greens Zac Goldsmith and Simon Clarke had been shuffled in, albeit to more junior positions…

    Much has been made, too, of Johnson’s girlfriend’s job as an environmental campaigner (his nickname for her is Little Otter). Carrie Symonds is due to give her first solo speech this evening at a birdwatching conference…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f50b6070-bf8d-11e9-8b63-a58ca55a4a3b

    17 Aug: AmericanThinker: Renewable Energy Hits the Wall
    By Norman Rogers
    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/08/renewable_energy_hits_the_wall.html

    30

  • #
    Zane

    Electricity prices are likely to stay high in Britain for the foreseeable future. From the insanity of importing wood pellets to fuel Drax, to the billions of quid spent on offshore and onshore wind turbines, to the ludicrous £22 billion cost of the new Franco-Chinese nuclear power station at Hinckley Point, to the £3 billion plus a year being spent on the decommissioning of retired nuke plants, which, incredibly, is being hailed as a wonderful piece of job creation… I think Mr Bean must be the UK’s energy minister.

    https://www.fircroft.com/blogs/the-uk-nuclear-decommissioning-projects-you-need-to-know-about-83043113133

    60

    • #
      Zane

      Comment meant in reply to #37 before my tablet crashed. Don’t ever buy a cheap no-name Android tablet at Harvey Norman.

      Actually, Mr Bean would be an improvement on whoever is Victoria’s current energy minister.

      50

      • #
        yarpos

        “Actually, Mr Bean would be an improvement on whoever is Victoria’s current energy minister”

        Amen

        40

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        You took the words out of my laptop.

        The question is “How does Boris get the British economy booming”?
        Cheaper electricity bills must be an obvious answer.
        Another is asking “why does Drax import wood pellets from the USA when it could mine coal (from the mine directly beneath) and reduce CO2 emissions while boosting jobs?”

        50

  • #
    David Maddison

    Fifty three years ago today 6th Battalion, the Royal Australian Regiment (6RAR), supported by the Royal Regiment of New Zealand Artillery fought in the battle of Long Tan in Vietnam. Thanks to all those on our side that fought and gave their lives.

    180

  • #
    Tides of Mudgee

    Further to my posting this link on mid-week unthreaded here is a little more information. ToM

    Posted September 19, 2018 by Reuters.
    “The Helheim Glacier in Tasillaq, Greenland calves approximately 10 billion tons of
    ice in a rarely documented single event on June 22, 2018.”

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=glacier+calving+video&view=detail&mid=22EFFC480341B48F50EF22EFFC480341B48F50EF&FORM=VIRE

    20

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day ToM,
      Thanks for that. I watched the video twice (!) and found it fascinating each time, seeing more second time round as I was able to anticipate some of the movements. Having its name, I also found this link which describes the work done to get the video:

      https://phys.org/news/2018-07-scientists-capture-glacier-greenland.html

      It seems the work was done to show how sea level rises!! But it also seems to me that the whole 10,000 tons was already floating, so the effect of the calving on sea levels was zero.

      I still like that zero.
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      40

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        Oops. Big mistake.
        ToM was correct with 10 billion tons. I don’t know how I made the mistake of keying just 10 thousand?? Sorry about that. Especially as I was so impressed by the larger number.
        Cheers
        Dave B

        20

  • #
    David Maddison

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/reports-of-the-great-barrier-reefs-doom-are-exaggerated/news-story/500e73695109b027df6f5b4a8a398f80

    Master reef guide Natalie Lobartolo has a first-hand window into what the world thinks about the Great Barrier Reef. She says the most common comment from tourists after they experience the reef and waters around Lady Musgrave Island where she works is: “I thought the reef was dead but it’s amazing.”

    Go to link for rest.

    90

  • #
    WXcycles

    Music Clip

    Priceless – Baby Animals
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W6Y7MLRNZ8

    00

  • #
  • #
    pat

    not going well:

    15 Aug: ClimateChangeNews: China and allies challenge UN chief’s climate vision
    ‘Basic’ environment ministers stress the responsibility of rich countries, in draft declaration that ignores António Guterres’ call for more ambitious national plans
    By Megan Darby
    Emerging economies are calling on rich countries to meet their pre-2020 climate targets and ramp up climate finance, at a meeting in Brasilia…READ ALL
    https://climatechangenews.com/2019/08/15/china-allies-challenge-un-chiefs-climate-vision/

    18 Aug: Indian Express: Explained: Who are BASIC, the climate change alliance whose meeting India just attended?
    The BASIC countries — a grouping of Brazil, South Africa, India and China — wields considerable heft purely because of the size of the economies and populations of the member countries.
    And as Javadekar said in Sao Paulo this week, “Brazil, South Africa, India and China put together has one-third of the world’s geographical area and nearly 40% of the world’s population, and when we unitedly speak in one voice this shows our determination.”…
    At the Sao Paulo meeting, the Environment Ministers of the BASIC nations — Ricardo Salles of Brazil, Xie Zhenhua of China, Barbara Creecy of South Africa, and Javadekar — expressed their concern about climate change and its adverse effects, and reaffirmed their commitment to the successful implementation of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), its Kyoto Protocol and its Paris Agreement, based on the recognition of the needs and special circumstances of developing countries and in accordance with the principles of Equity and Common But Differentiated Responsibilities and Respective Capabilities (CBDR-RC), in the light of different national circumstances…
    https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-who-are-basic-the-climate-change-alliance-whose-meeting-india-just-attended-5914424/

    00

  • #
    pat

    16 Aug: ClimateChangeNews: Climate Weekly: Basic goes back to basics
    By Megan Darby
    Bolsonaro defiant
    Basic host nation Brazil has turned particularly hostile to multilateralism in general and climate cooperation in particular…READ ALL
    https://www.climatechangenews.com/2019/08/16/climate-weekly-basic-goes-back-basics/

    20

  • #
    pat

    18 Aug: UK Express: Harry and Meghan fly yet ANOTHER private plane to French holiday resort – eco hypocrites?
    PRINCE HARRY and Meghan Markle have flown to France on yet another private plane, their third flight in eight days despite championing eco causes and claiming we all need to “do our part” for the planet.
    By Luke Chillingsworth
    The Duke and Duchess of Sussex flew into the Nice on their 12 seater Cessna plane, just days after travelling to Ibiza and then back to London…
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1167115/prince-harry-meghan-markle-emissions-private-plane-nice-ibiza

    18 Aug: KentOnline: Fire at planned solar farm in Faversham could fill air with toxic gas
    By Katie Davis
    A catastrophic fire at what would be the UK’s biggest solar farm could see the air filled with toxic gas as far as six miles away, an expert in biochemical engineering has warned.
    Dr Bruno Erasin says a blaze at a huge battery storage unit forming part of the planned development on the outskirts of Faversham would pose a “significant risk” to the surrounding population.
    He has now urged government planning chiefs to order the solar park be built no closer than 15km from the nearest home…

    Currently, a number of houses back onto the 1,200-acre site in Graveney, which would contain 880,000 solar panels and a number of battery units to store the energy they generate.
    Dr Erasin says evidence shows a fire at the storage site – which covers 25 acres itself – could be explosive, difficult to control and send toxic hydrogen fluoride into the air…READ ALL
    https://www.kentonline.co.uk/faversham/news/the-air-could-fill-with-toxic-gas-as-far-as-six-miles-away-210622/

    10

    • #
      yarpos

      880,000 panels at >50 degrees latitude, in a climate with lots of grey weather and a serious winter. What would the capcity factor be ? 5-10% WOFTAM comes to mind , what are these people smoking? apart from batteries.

      10

  • #
    pat

    18 Aug: Daily Mail: Explosion to demolish the remains of Didcot power station sparks a terrifying fireball on overhead lines as sparks rain down on spectators, set a three-year-old’s hair on fire and blaze causes a blackout at 40,000 homes
    •Homes blacked out across Didcot, Oxfordshire, after the controlled demolition
    •Thousands of postcodes were affected and a pylon caught fire after the blast
    •The three cooling towers at the former power plant were brought down at 7am
    By Emer Scully
    The demolition of three ‘death towers’ – where four workers were killed three years ago – left 40,000 homes without power early this morning as an electricity pylon that caught fire caused sparks ‘that burned’ to rain down on spectators.
    Homes around Didcot, Oxfordshire, blacked out when explosives which were meant to crumble the former coal-fueled plant’s remaining three northern cooling towers also blew up a power substation at 7am, it has been claimed.

    Shock waves were sent through the 375ft tall towers, causing them to collapse in to a cloud of debris just after sunrise today. An online tracker showed more than 2,700 postcodes were affected by a power outage from the moment they fell.
    And an electricity pylon near the site caught fire as the towers fell, causing sparks to fall over people, including young children, as they watched the demolition…
    Power was out for more than an hour as Scottish and Southern Electricity engineers battled to restore electricity by 8.20am…READ ALL
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7368505/Thousands-homes-lose-electricity-engineers-blow-remains-power-station.html

    20

  • #
    David Maddison

    https://voiceofeurope.com/2019/08/six-sailors-fly-across-the-atlantic-to-enable-gretas-climate-trip

    Quote (see link for full article)

    Greta Thunberg’s sailing ship for the climate, Malizia II, must return to Europe after it has reached New York. For this, four new professional sailors fly to the US. Their mission is to release the crew of two skippers on board and sail the boat back. Altogether, six sailors must take at least one trip each by plane.

    Amid invited to the UN Climate Summit in New York in September, Greta Thunberg refused to go by plane and wanted a carbon dioxide neutral way of travel. Fortunately for her, the Malizia II team came to her assistance, offering to sail Greta and her father across the Atlantic. As a return, the boat became the nine o’clock news all over the world when Greta set off from Plymouth a couple of days ago.

    10

  • #
    AndyG55

    Poor Greta, she can’t get anything right.

    Failed SJW virtue signalling ! : -)

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/08/18/doh-climate-messiah-greta-thunbergs-plastic-boat-trip-will-result-in-two-airline-flights/

    Luv EW’s last comment..

    “Next time Greta, buy an airline ticket like the rest of your fellow greens.”

    60

  • #

    Take two backup generators of the same grade and quality – one rated at 5 kW, and the other 30 kW.

    An unlimited fuel supply is provided for both generators.

    The 5 kW generator will cease functioning well before the sum total of useful work it produces matches the total energy generated by the 30 kW unit during its lifetime.

    Why so, given the unlimited fuel supply available to both generators, which makes them truly open systems?

    It is not the fuel supplied to an energy-generating device that limits the sum useful energy produced, but rather the total energy expended in constructing it.

    As the 30 kW generator consumed more energy in its construction than the smaller 5 kW unit, the smaller generator cannot match the sum useful work of the larger device.

    No energy system can produce sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.

    This universal truth applies to all energy systems [- the sun, fusion, nuclear, solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, EVs, spaceships, AI, IoT, IR4, 5G, and you name it]“.

    Energy, like time, flows from past to future.

    The Fifth Law of Thermodynamics and The Arrow of Energy, proposed 2017.

    https://the-fifth-law.com/pages/press-release?joannenova=panelroad

    92

    • #
      el gordo

      Spaceships?

      31

    • #
      Agammamon

      No energy system can produce sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.

      That’s not what ‘conservation of energy’ means. Its also mindboggling that anyone would think that the amount of energy going into constructing something has anything to do with how much energy you get out of the *fuel* that is supplied it.

      What if I use extremely inefficient manufacturing techniques for the smaller generator? What if part of the manufacturing process for the smaller generator required the importing of parts from the other side of the world?

      Or – what if I built two generators of the same capacity – but one uses inefficient machinery, consuming more energy in construction than the second machine. Will you tell me the second machine will produce less energy over the course of its lifetime?

      90

      • #

        Capture all the energy from the sun, assumed a Fusion reactor, past and future, in the highest efficient method possible, to create another replica sun, in an open-to-closed system fashion.

        The daughter sun will be less powerful.
        Despite the replica sun is a fusion reactor, it will never generate sum amount of energy exceeding the total energy that has constructed it, coming from its mother sun.

        No energy system can generate energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.

        This universal truth applies to all energy systems [- the sun, fusion, nuclear, solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, EVs, spaceships, AI, IoT, IR4, 5G, and you name it]“.

        Energy, like time, flows from past to future.

        The Fifth Law of Thermodynamics and The Arrow of Energy, proposed 2017.

        https://the-fifth-law.com/pages/press-release?joannenova=replicaSun

        11

      • #

        What if I use extremely inefficient manufacturing techniques, [poor materials and poorer designs] for the smaller generator?

        The smaller generator will wear and tear and cease functioning even earlier!

        That’s why people know from experience that cheap, poorly manufactured devices are typically short-lived (see the solar panels junkyard in S. Australia, where PV panels are destroyed by hand, one after another, only few years after deployment – to get their aluminum frames, sold to smelters as scrap metal).

        ‘Cheap’ and ‘inefficient’ usually a reflection on less energy expended in a process of creating something – i.e. an inefficient ‘Chinese’ car manufacturing process uses much less energy than a Toyota – saving ‘money’ (i.e. energy) in the process.

        On the other hand, you cannot burn energy in the air to waste and expect a device of any sort, somewhere, would produce any useful energy!

        11

        • #
          Gee aye

          But all you’ve done is couched the history of the universe in terms of energy output today. What you are describing is a trivial outcome of the order in which things happen. It is not new it is just a description of time.

          Anyway, keep at it. Loved your web site but consider centre formatting the text.

          10

      • #
        TdeF

        The most elementary machine is a lever. You can move anything with it and that is work done, but the lever is not worn out. As Archimedes said, give me a place to stand and I can move the Earth.

        At the same time any machine is the sum of all its costs, including energy. Take a generator or even car motor.
        Over its lifetime the value of the energy generated as measured by the cost of fuel consumed will be many times the cost of the machine.

        Then how much is required to replace worn parts? Often a tiny part of the cost of the machine.

        No there is no such conservation law. Windmills on the other hand are probably unserviceable, which gives new meaning to renewable energy. It is not an investment. Better described as replaceable energy. As it is not commandable and very difficult to add to an AC grid, the other appropriate word is useless.

        60

        • #

          Cost, measured in man-made money, is not a metric of Physics and the Laws of Thermodynamics.

          You think servicing a car, changing its engine oil, for example, is a low energy exercise.

          It is not!

          The total energy put into the lubricant, in solar and chemical energy by nature in the distant past creating fossil fuels, and the fossil fuels burned to create an industrial base that extracts fossil fuels, refining them, transporting them, packaging them until made available for application into your car at the workshop, takes several orders of magnitude greater energy than all the useful work done by your car since last lubricant change!

          20

    • #
      Enoch Root

      Great thing this so-called fifth law is not accepted. I hope this kind of crap never does… But, maybe if 97% of the scientists agreed on it…

      50

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Wow. Nine greens! Two reds.

      It certainly looks authoritative and maybe the UNIPCCC can use it in their next skim.

      Welcome, most sincerely, to 2019.

      It’s not “2525″ yet, but you can feel it.

      http://joannenova.com.au/2019/08/weekend-unthreaded-273/#comment-2177774

      RW?

      00

  • #
    Latus Dextro

    The ‘press release’ is dated 20th July 2019, tomorrow.

    ONE-WAY ENERGY ENTANGLEMENT
    Despite drawing on two entirely different pools of energy resources – one to construct an energy-generating device (Em), and the other to fuel it – the sum total of useful energy produced by a device (Eu) will always be constrained by the total energy expended earlier in constructing it.
    Eu < Em
    The two energy parameters are thus one-way entangled.
    "THE FIFTH LAW TIME LIMIT
    The Fifth Law also proposes that the time taken in stocking energy to build an energy-producing device added to the time taken to build the device will always be longer than the entire useful working life of the device. "

    So where exactly do the temporal boundaries lie between one device and another, between the creation of the Earth 6B years ago and the present, or indeed between the ‘big bang’ and today? How is ‘stock’ defined?

    Entropy was always a cruel mistress.

    The author also describes a “sun road” …. this time a kind of perpetual energy spigot from which all else will be produced.
    At that point I succumbed to a loss of interest. The energy required to continue was too great.

    The book also proposes a 2nd-generation, self-growing renewable energy platform, the Sun Road, imagined to be built between what the renowned Stanford University Historian Ian Morris calls, the ‘lucky latitudes’, extending to Australia.

    40

    • #
      Gee aye

      You were brave to delve any deeper than the first few paragraphs. Given that it is both the first post and now holds the record for the most off-topic comment ever, I’ll be not surprised if it is removed as well as laughed at.

      40

    • #
      Agammamon

      between the creation of the Earth 6B years ago and the present, or indeed between the ‘big bang’ and today? How is ‘stock’ defined?

      C’mon man – that’s like asking homeopaths why fish poop effects don’t dominate their ‘cures’.

      31

      • #
        Gee aye

        I was very disappointed when the time cube (https://timecube.2enp.com/) guy died and could post no more. I mean this is how he started and it only got better

        In 1884, meridian time personnel met

        in Washington to change Earth time.

        First words said was that only 1 day

        could be used on Earth to not change

        the 1 day marshmallow. So they applied the 1

        day and ignored the other 3 days.

        The marshmallow time was wrong then and it

        proved wrong today.

        I’ll be watching Mr fifth law with hope.

        40

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        Dang. Are you suggesting one should give up drinking?

        30

  • #
    Another Ian

    Willis has another look at “Nature’s Finest”

    “Inside The Sausage Factory”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/08/18/inside-the-sausage-factory/

    “Gotta say, every time I look at this heap of steaming bovine waste products it gets worse … but hopefully, this will be the last time I have to look at how this particular sausage was made.”

    10

  • #
    Another Ian

    Re Boris and Brexit

    Churchillian in every aspect

    Bojo has found his Winston Mojo

    Great stuff from Comms. Brilliant by Johnson.

    Making Britain Great Again. pic.twitter.com/VMIDtGOIxT

    — Katie Hopkins (@KTHopkins) August 16, 2019″

    Via

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/08/16/w-o-o-d-16-august-2019/#comment-115899

    10

  • #
    el gordo

    “If we don’t take the opportunity while everybody is watching to talk about building water storage, dams, pipelines, infrastructure, underground dams, recharging our aquifers, investing in our weirs then we will miss this opportunity,” Mr Barilaro said. ABC

    We should do this before the arrival of floods late next year.

    20

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘In observational data, we find striking and globally coherent increases of atmospheric dust concentrations and deposition during the coldest phases of glacial−interglacial climate cycles. As shown by our simulations with a climate−carbon cycle model, such a relationship between dust and climate implies that dust-induced cooling is responsible for the final step from intermediate to extreme glacial cooling and drawdown of atmospheric CO2 concentrations.

    ‘These results also increase our overall understanding of glacial−interglacial cycles by putting further constraints on the timing and strength of other processes involved in these cycles, like changes in sea ice and ice sheet extents or changes in ocean circulation and deep water formation.’

    Shaffer and Lambert 2018

    10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Leftist arithmetic instruction vs traditional arithmetic instruction.

    No wonder the West is so dumbed down.

    https://youtu.be/Nlfa5v3ullg

    30

  • #
    Hanrahan

    It’s about keeping poor people down.

    I’ve always thought that alarmists are most selfish even while accusing us of not caring for our grandkids.

    Mike Schellenberger [sp?] calls them so at 6:15 here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsWs7Y9QaJs

    00

  • #
    Greebo

    Oh dear. Seems the Obummers are producing content for Netflix. Can’t wait..

    10

  • #
    pat

    18 Aug was said to be the day the Bitcoin inventor would reveal himself:

    18 Aug: “My Reveal”
    By Satoshi Nakamoto
    As told to Ivy McLemore
    Part I – The Origins of Bitcoin and My Pseudonym
    I am Satoshi Nakamoto…
    https://satoshinrh.com/my-reveal-part-1/

    not buying it:

    18 Aug: CCN Markets: Self-Proclaimed Satoshi Nakamoto’s Bitcoin ‘Reveal’ Is an Epic Fail
    By Samantha Chang
    The latest self-proclaimed Satoshi Nakamoto overpromised and underdelivered in Part 1 of his “big reveal” — probably to the surprise of no one in crypto.
    https://www.ccn.com/satoshi-nakamoto-bitcoin-reveal-epic-fail/

    a twitter thread worth noting:

    TWEET: Riccardo Spagni
    Hey @ivymclemore, just so you’re aware, Bilal Khalid is not Satoshi Nakamoto. Have fun promoting his “reveal” whilst your name gets dragged through the mud!
    18 Aug 2019
    https://twitter.com/fluffypony/status/1163185816237150208

    00

  • #
  • #
    Carp

    Britain’s heritage railways are fighting for their future in the face of a Government crackdown on carbon emissions

    I first thought this was a hoax but, if it’s in the Railway Magazine, it’s probably true.

    00

  • #

    The road to Hell is always paved with good intentions.

    190

  • #
    Nick Werner

    Hah! The time has come to rename the solar section of Normandy Road to Rue Good Intentions.

    120

  • #
    Yonniestone

    So the road or good intentions became the highway to hell, instead of a long expensive road for alternative energy we should be following the yellow brick road.

    50

  • #
    Yonniestone

    I also believe all solar roads should be called routes as the word applies to all aspects of its existence.

    Routes, the environment, budgets, noise pollution, taxpayers, tyres, self esteem…….

    50

  • #
    Annie

    Time to rue la rue.

    100

  • #
    PeterPetrum

    I’ve just been to France – so I can show off!

    La route de bonnes intentions

    60

  • #
    TdeF

    It’s rued already.

    60

  • #
    Gee aye

    you don’t have to be in France to use Google translate for French.

    03

  • #
    PeterPetrum

    Pourquoi?

    50