JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 9.3 out of 10 based on 23 ratings

305 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Aussie Pete

    Kevin Rudd once famously said that climate change was the great moral challenge of our generation. He may well have been correct, albeit unwittingly.
    The New South Wales Education Department has a published document entitled Code of Conduct, aimed at informing all of The Department’s employees but of course specifically teachers.
    Under the heading, Duty of Care, article 21.2 of this document refers to
    ‘Considerations of safety relate to both physical and psychological wellbeing of individuals’.
    Apart from the immorality of fomenting fear in the minds of children, the one-sided promotion of apocalyptic scenarios about climate change is palpably detrimental to the psychological welfare of some students.
    In this respect a teacher could be seen as guilty of malfeasance and by doing nothing the Department could be seen as aiding and abetting. (non-feasance)
    They do not appear to have done anything to mitigate the fear and anxiety associated with the climate change debate put about by some teachers and their silence only deepens the childrens’ psychological stress.
    I look forward to the day that this immorality is challenged in court, perhaps in the form of a class action.
    Will someone with credibility and influence take up the cause?
    The New South Wales Education Department is clearly in breach of its own code of conduct.

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    • #

      @ Aussie Pete I concur. Same up here in Queensland. I helped a couple of kids who were suffering from Climate Alarmism. I was asked by their parents, who I have done consulting work for, and they knew what I thought about the subject. When one of these kids found out the extent of the lies that had been fed to her, she became furiously angry and was threatening harm to her teacher. I have been looking for some backup. I have plenty of experience in tertiary teaching but no training in psychology. The societies representing the psychology profession here in Australia, in the US and the UK are all lock-step with climate fanaticism. Same with the organisation here claiming to represent general practitioners. I know one GP who disagrees with this, and one psychologist who works at Headspace who might be able to help, but both could be taking risks if they don’t go along with the scam.

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      • #
        Aussie Pete

        Hi Martin.
        Great to hear from someone with some first hand experience and contacts.I have neither, i am just part of the MSP (mainstream people) who have pretty much stood by and let this happen. For the last few years i was pretty much of the opinion that the global warming stupidity would run its course and die out.
        When it became obvious that it would not be the case, i became more pro-active amongst family and friends. It was then that i realised how many people simply did not have a clue or were just bored by it.
        How naive was i? not to realise that the zealots would go for the minds of our children. That’s when my conscience got to me for trusting in the inherent decency of people who were in positions to prevent it.
        I am not any kind of scientist nor do i have any resources that i can bring to the party. All i can do is post stuff on blogs such as Jo’s and hope someone will pick it up.
        I have some ideas and at the risk of being tedious will repeat below a post i made here a few days ago.
        Thank you for your interest.

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        • #
          Aussie Pete

          Repeat of my post a couple of days ago.

          Just this week I asked my 30 odd year old step son (who is of normal intelligence with a reasonably good job in middle management) “what do you think about all this climate change stuff?” His reply “I believe in pollution, you know, like plastic and stuff.” I’m not sure but I think he voted for Labor at the recent elections because he felt the Liberals were not doing enough about it.
          Something different needs to be done about the Climate Change scam. Readers of blogs like this one know all about the arguments etc. but there is a major problem getting information into the general community. The warmers are winning the propaganda wars. Politicians and MSM are at best spooked and at worst are gullible ideologues. Our kids are being frightened with apocalyptic scenarios painted by unscrupulous shysters.
          Claims that the climate change religion was defeated at the election are a myth. Both Federally and in N.S.W the Liberals are no more than lukewarm in their approach to dealing with the false prophets of doom and gloom.
          Almost every interest group on our society has an official organisation speaking and acting on behalf of its members, there are associations, clubs, unions, guilds, peak bodies, you name it.
          We need some such institution to co-ordinate, disseminate and advocate on behalf of Carbon Dioxide.
          Jo and others are doing a sterling job and deserve all the accolades in the world. Unfortunately, in my opinion they are operating, for the most part, in an echo chamber. I’m sure we, as individuals, are doing our bit with family and friends but that has obvious limitations.
          It pains me to watch on, almost helplessly as people, for whatever their reasons, vilify one of nature’s basic tools for life on earth and in so doing are infecting the minds of our young whilst applying a wrecking ball to our economy.
          Is there not someone out there who has the wherewithal to get the ball rolling to co-ordinate, disseminate and advocate on behalf of the future of life as we know it?
          Talking amongst ourselves is not going to do it.

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          • #
            Dave in the States

            His reply “I believe in pollution, you know, like plastic and stuff.” I’m not sure but I think he voted for Labor at the recent elections because he felt the Liberals were not doing enough about it.

            The conflation of real pollution and GHG emissions/CAGW is deliberate. It is one in the same to the casual observer, and those whom are scientifically illiterate. It is also why the ambiguous term carbon pollution was invented. People mustn’t know that modern ICE and even older coal PP ect..only yield relatively benign emissions. In fact co2 emissions are overall good for environment.

            It is all part of the intellectual dishonesty we are facing. It is more of the ends justifying the means rationalization practiced by politicians, and academics, and educators, and journalists, on this issue.

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            • #
              theRealUniverse

              I agree mixing of all the ‘green’ problems call it what you want pollution in various forms makes it hard to separate into rational arguments when it is mixed with half truths, science falsities and the rest. Poor youth – so confused, the younger the worse as they have not much life experience.

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              • #
                Dave in the States

                Yup, and we now even have one celebratory youth claiming to be able see co2 “pollution” in the air with her naked eye.

                Not only does the conflation make it difficult to separate it all into rational arguments, but it misleads the casual observer into believing that the make believe crisis’s can be solved through Gov actions. That it is just a matter of making the sacrifices, of freedom and treasure, and setting the politically correct priorities. It is diabolical how they are using the youth. It is really at the youth’s expense too. They will pay for it.

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      • #

        I like your use of “climate fanaticism”, Aussie Pete, but feel that if I wish to refer to “Climate Alarmists” or “Warmists”, which are really very insipid ways to label these idiots, then “Climate Fanatic”or “Climate Fanaticism” doesn’t roll off the tongue to my satisfaction.

        I therefore propose that the term “Climate Monomaniac” or CM be used as the identifier. The term correctly describes those who believe, contrary to all the evidence available, that the planet is doomed, and to save ourselves we must tax ourselves into economic oblivion. (Evidence of this is to be seen in New Zealand’s farming magazines which, every week, harp endlessly on about methane and and the need to turn vast tracts of good farmland into pine forests – a mono-culture.)

        Therefore, it is Climate Monomaniac for me from now on.

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        • #
          Mal

          I prefer eco fascist

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          • #
            theRealUniverse

            So do I!

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            • #
              OriginalSteve

              How about complete lockdown of society?

              https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-09/tyranny-taps-hunting-down-future-threats

              Authored by Mark Angelides via LibertyNation.com,

              Every once in a while, there comes a piece of legislation that is so abhorrent to the very concept of liberty that it seems almost doomed to failure from the outset. Sadly, the same prognosis cannot be made for the Threat Assessment Prevention, And Safety (TAPS) Act of 2019, which, due to broad bipartisan support, may actually make it into law.

              The act is set to create mini-task forces of threat assessment personnel for deployment in schools, places of work, NGOs, tribal communities, and pretty much anywhere they can perceive a future threat. These officials will be operating in all communities and serve under the guidance of an as-yet-undecided “National Strategy.” The bill seeks to identify those individuals who may, at some point in the future, be a danger to themselves or others.

              TAPS is being presented as a “bipartisan, bicameral solution to prevent targeted violence and make local communities safer.” Removing the sugar-coating for a moment, in plain language it means to create a register of people who may commit crimes at an unspecified time in the future, such as potential school shooters.

              The Tyranny Of TAPS

              In the House, there are presently 84 representatives signed up to co-sponsor TAPS, split evenly between Republicans and Democrats. It was also introduced to the Senate, by Marco Rubio (R-FL), Kyrsten Sinema (D-AZ), and Thom Tillis (R-NC). Representative Brian Babin (R-TX), who brought the bill to the House, stated at a May 15 press conference:

              “We do this first to honor the sacrifice of these men and women in blue, who put their life on the line every single day to protect us in the vital role that law enforcement plays in the safety and well-being of our communities and our districts … And secondly to highlight a bipartisan solution — that we all are working on — to protect our communities and schools from the terrible acts of violence that we have seen and are getting to be almost routine.”

              Babin finished up his opening statement with an almost perfectly-crafted sound bite: “We know that once the first shot is fired, it is too late. We failed.” But what result would be measured as a success? If the individual has committed no crime, why should they have their privacy invaded and their life chances hindered with a government record deeming them to be “threat”? If the individual in question has committed a crime, then there are already laws in place to deal with them.

              Hunting Down “Threats”

              The legislative guide released by Rep. Babin’s office, which presents guidance on how to support this act, helpfully offers a “frequently asked questions” section to allay the concerns of citizens who are not yet convinced. When answering the question as to whether threat assessment teams are an invasion of privacy, the document points out that, “[T]hese requests arise because the individual in question has made public statements verbally, in writing, or on social media, that cause concern, with no expectation of privacy.” This should give some indication as to who will be targeted if the legislation passes.

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              • #
                Reed Coray

                Hollywood is ahead of Congress. In 2002 Hollywood produced a movie entitled: “Minority Report” [ see https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181689/ ]. The movie carried the idea one step further. Instead of just making a list of potential criminals, potential criminals were rounded up before they even committed their crimes. Will Rogers, a deceased American humorist wrote:

                And the thing about my jokes is, they don’t hurt anybody. You can
                take ‘em or leave ‘em – you can say they’re funny or they’re terrible
                or they’re good, or whatever, but you can just pass ‘em by. But with
                Congress, every time they make a joke, it’s a law! And every time
                they make a law, it’s a joke!

                Will was partly right, the US Congress is rapidly becoming a joke.

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    • #
      David Wojick

      My Climate Change Debate Education project hopes to provide some counter content but it is slow going. We do have 193 videos and some one page nontechnical handouts.
      http://ccdedu.blogspot.com

      Everyone complains about the CAGW indoctrination but donations are scarce.
      https://www.gofundme.com/climate-change-debate-education

      I thought I had a major sponsor but they pulled out from fear of retribution.

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      • #
        Aussie Pete

        Your efforts are worthy contributions and I particularly like the way you try to keep it all in layman’s language. The problem IMHO is actually getting the layman to go there and read it. You point to the difficulty of funding which of course is a big part of the problem.
        I think however, we have well passed the point of a “groundswell” approach. We need some kind of “top down” movement, the likes of which Trump brings to the issue. With a bit of luck he will get another term but even that may not be enough, given the all-out war that he has to wage on so many fronts.
        Blind faith is impervious to reason, especially when supported by a lust for power, control and money.
        The hoax of the climate change story has many vulnerabilities. Who out there can advocate for the following,
        1/ A Supreme Court enquiry into Climategate.
        2/ A Senate enquiry into The BOM’s homogenisation processes.
        3/ A complete expose’ of the real costs, subsidies etc associated with renewables.
        4/ A league of concerned journalists, who would not be intimidated by threats of sackings or other maltreatment.
        This last point is absolutely necessary if we are to turn the tide in the battle against the now established blind faith amongst the mainstream population.
        It’s a big ask, but we need a person or persons of credibility, influence and resources to lead the fightback from the abyss at which we are all staring.

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        I think trying to fight it through science debates is not going to get results, or very slowly. Showing the whole CAGW is a deliberate scam and eco – fr@ud for what it is maybe more productive. Dont dwell on the debates over CO2 causes or doesnt cause, or levels etc. this or that, its in the too hard science basket for many.
        Aus Pete ,1..4 a start.

        10

    • #
      PeterS

      Good points Aussie Pete. All that needs to happen is for one wealthy parent to take the education department to court for breaching their own code of conduct and scaring unnecessarily their child about some mythical climate disaster that’s clearly not going to happen in their life time. Imagine if schools were teaching their students about some impending killer asteroid that’s going to destroy the planet in the next 30 years or so. There would be a public backlash such that the teachers involved would be sacked and rightly so.

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      • #

        Reminds me of a true story.
        The USSR launched Sputnik 4 October 1957. I was in Grade 5 at a country school in Manitoba.
        The next morning, the teacher (grades 1 to 8 ) gave us a long drawn out dissertation about how this meant that the Russians could now project a “death ray” from its orbit in “space” and kill us all. No point in worrying about the atomic bomb now. She drew diagrams on the blackboard of how those pesky Russians would project a death ray up there and reflect it back and destroy Canada.
        All the kids went home to dinner scared sh*tless. (and I don’t mean shirtless)
        My Pop was the chairman of the local school board and called an emergent meeting that evening.
        They told her to pull in her head or hit the road.
        There was no more talk of “death rays” after that.
        If you watched “the Outsiders” on Sunday, you will have seen Riccardo Bosi explain that the only anti-dote to ignorance is for individuals to take charge and take action.
        It was a terrific interview if you get a chance to see it.

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        • #
          Aussie Pete

          karabar,
          My story from the fifties, when I was kid is about drowning. I lived in Albury about 10k’s downstream from the Hume Dam and occasionally there would be idle talk amongst the adults about the wall bursting and how we would fare in the ensuing flood.
          Adults often don’t realise even that the 5 year olds are listening and consequently get a bit careless. That is of course an entirely different matter to the zealots who seem not to care how much damage they do just so long as they achieve their ends.

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    • #

      Yr UN, K-12-values-indoctrination. Hafta’ say I prefer macadamias to bulbous-globalist-academia-ists. )
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rugJTUDs2lkYr

      10

  • #
    Brian the engineer

    Must be a long weekend

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  • #
    yarpos

    Interesting chart

    Spot the Aussie

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    • #
    • #
      yarpos

      link doesnt appear when you post it as a link, but does appear when you post it as text

      I guess that makes sense at some level, somewhere, somehow

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    • #

      Funny, isn’t it?

      I started checking this CO2 emissions by Country thing back when I started out all that I’m doing, in early 2008.

      I chased those totals back as far as they could go, and that was in 2005.

      Compared to 2005, the total CO2 emissions from Australia at the end of 2017 have RISEN from 356 million tonnes per year in 2005 to 403 Million tonnes at the end of 2017. So, it’s a ‘horrendous’ increase of 46 Million tonnes.

      Shocking. Absolutely shocking. We need to hold some politicians to blame, especially those Conservative ones.

      The odd thing is this.

      In 2005, Australia’s percentage of the total was 1.5%. and now it’s 1.1%.

      Who would have thought?

      Pretty soon, we’ll be back below one percent.

      Patently obvious to me that we’re doing something right eh!

      Tony.

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      • #
        Greebo

        What was that about “lies, damned lies and….”?

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      • #
        TdeF

        So if we do absolutely nothing, our contribution to total CO2 output is plummeting. Great.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Of course coal power is cheaper, it does not have to pay for the damage it causes, both to the local populations, the damage to the environment, and for Lake Macquarie the poisoning of the local fish, crustaceans and shellfish. In addition there is the clean up costs for the mines and the ash and tailings dumps. If a full accounting was conducted, using a libertarian zero harm principle, coal would not be the poster boy you make it out to be.

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        • #
          beowulf

          Oh dear. Here we go again.

          “. . . the damage it causes to local populations” — I’m part of that local population. I’ve died several times now . . . I got better.

          I live in the Hunter Valley ¾ of an hour from Bayswater-Liddell. Be so kind as to show me in the comprehensive study below exactly where the coal power stations have resulted in health impacts on the local inhabitants.
          https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/phb/Documents/2013-2.pdf
          “There was no evidence of a significant difference in problems managed or medications prescribed by GPs for residents of communities potentially affected by heavy industrial activity (coal mining and power generation) in the Hunter Valley region of NSW compared with residents in the remainder of rural NSW . . .” Gee how about that.

          “. . . poisoning of the local fish”. Where do you get this garbage? For your information fish thrive in the outlet channels of the power stations, so much so that it is illegal to fish in their vicinity. Fish congregate there in Lake Macquarie and grow to a great size in the channels where they fall easy prey to unscrupulous anglers. Zero poisoning.

          Before you come up with some statement that heavy metals are being disgorged from the flues in unconscionable quantities, I would point out that Sydney Water is Australia’s largest dumper of mercury through its sewerage system, and crematoria are greater mercury polluters of urban areas. Crematoria are banned within many kilometres of Hunter Valley vineyards for that reason, yet the power stations chug on just up the valley unheeded by the wine industry which would certainly squawk if there was good cause.

          Here is the observed effect coal flue gases have when directly injected into seagrass aquaria.
          http://www.co2science.org/articles/V11/N7/EDIT.php
          The gaseous enrichment resulted in “significantly higher reproductive output, below-ground biomass and vegetative proliferation of new shoots”.

          The authors went so far as to suggest “direct injections of power-plant flue gas along coastlines in an effort to improve the establishment and expansion of seagrass meadows and the benefits to coastal marine ecosystems that typically accompany them”. So much for poisoning the sea life. What a joke. You may be (dis)interested to learn that tractor diesel exhaust fumes are also direct-injected into soils as a fertilizer (mainly nitrates, CO2, carbon and probably a bit of sulphur). Exhaust gases are a resource to plants.

          Unlike wind turbines which have been abandoned and left as decrepit, rusting eyesores covering hundreds of acres in many places like California and Hawaii, coal mines are remediated by the coal companies in stages as they progress. There is no gaping hole left when they are finished. I used to do open cut restoration in my younger days. Trees were re-planted, grasses re-established, hundreds of bat-boxes were erected in trees to house micro-bats disturbed when their home trees were cleared for a new cut etc. Tailings are buried in the old cuts from whence they came. All done out of the mining companies funds, not out of the public purse. I’m seriously doubting whether you’ve seen an actual coal mine.

          How about you do a full accounting of your beloved wind turbines and solar panels instead. Do you have any data re what remediation and disposal is planned for those monstrosities? Who will foot the bill for that — some fly-by-night carpet bag renewables company whose directors skip town when the subsidies run dry? No, it’ll be Mr and Mrs Public that pay for it all.

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          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Brilliant, Beowulf.

            Maybe Jo has a point when she has comments from people like Moh here provoking such well presented and authoritative responses as yours.

            His brother Ron was here a few months ago harping on about an ill informed opinion piece by a committee of concerned doctors that blamed illnesses in the Hunter valley population as being from coal fired power generators.
            At the time I suggested that the main health issue was most likely associated with excess alcohol consumption and remarked that a major pollution problem in Newcastle harbour was completely ignored by the Greeens, These Doctors and state government politicians and EPA. Curious that they focus on a relative non event and ignore the harmful pollution.

            In this case there’s a little bit of truth in Moh’s alarm but the real pollution is at the other end of the Lake at Cockle Creek. I suspect that there are similar problems around South Coast lead/zinc production. That’s pollution.

            And where there’s real pollution you’ll Never find a pollutician or an activist.

            Who needs The Truth when the real game is to manipulate the population and fleece them?

            KK

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            • #
              beowulf

              Thank you KK. Yes 100 years of smelting has taken its toll on the lake. The sediments around Speers Point are pretty high in lead. I think the strategy is to leave them undisturbed and allow other sediments to build up and cap the contaminated layer. Trying to dredge it would have HUGE consequences and mobilise a ton of suspended lead particles throughout the lake.

              Back to coal, I neglected to mention nano-particles. I haven’t forgotten Dr Ben Ewald, the part time doctor, full time anti-coal activist and his fanciful claims about the mortality rate from coal mining side effects due to dust. It’s laughable how activists focus on coal as a source of “deadly” nano-particles when we’ve been ingesting them, smearing them on ourselves and bathing ourselves with them every day for a hundred years. Think soap, toothpaste, talc, sunscreen and about 800 other household products.

              Isn’t it also paradoxical how nasty coal companies protect bats (and Black-Throated Finches) yet Green-friendly turbines are allowed to chew them up without consequence? Three cheers for “renewable” energy.

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            • #
              Hanrahan

              This was over 50 yrs ago but I still remembered it. :)

              Minamata disease – Wikipedia
              Search domain en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_diseasehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease
              Minamata disease is a poisoning disease that affects mainly the central nervous system and is caused by the consumption of large quantities of fish and shellfish living in Minamata Bay and its surroundings, the major causative agent being some sort of organic mercury compound.

              I can’t remember the Tasmanian river polluted by mercury but that stuff doesn’t just go away, it must still be there.

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              • #
                Graeme#4

                Could be the King River, polluted by the Queenstown mines. It’s banks are still very yellow.

                10

          • #
            yarpos

            Fitzy needs to get out of the tumeric latte belt a bit more I think. Maybe take a EV ride to Lake Macquarie and see if it is anything like the fetid cesspool it seems in your lurid alarmist imaginings.

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            for health
            http://media.bze.org.au/coal_health_Report_FINAL.pdf
            https://www.envirojustice.org.au/event/lake-macquarie-public-forum/
            for fish
            https://www.theherald.com.au/story/5946391/dont-eat-the-mud-crabs-report-warns-of-lake-macquarie-pollution/
            http://www.fishingworld.com.au/news/dietary-advice-for-recreational-fishers-in-lake-macquarie
            air quality
            https://www.theherald.com.au/story/2540180/air-pollution-deaths-cost-millions/

            I could go on, but I’ll stand by my claim that the costs of coal power are not fully accounted, and this means that comparisons between coal power and other type of generation is not done on a level playing field.

            As to remediation, not one coal open cut mine in the hunter has been brought back to the original condition of the land, as was promised.

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            • #

              Peter, and are the costs of rare earth metals for wind and solar accounted for in lakes in China or the Congo?

              Yes, we should count up all the costs if we can, but there are many many costs… and some of them are near impossible to quantify.

              What’s the cost of increased deaths in winter because coal plants have been driven out of business by govt policy and people turned their heater off to use less electricity? How many divorces are created by extra money stress due to higher electricity bills?

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                I don’t thinks that they are, Jo. However, is that a reason to discount those costs in our situation? It is a thorny question, and I agree that it is difficult to produce a proper accounting. That does not mean it should not be done. The example I cited about the fish is one where a negative consequence is obvious. In relation to energy costs, should the be accounted in the calculation of the minimum wage? I say that as pensions and other payments are linked to it, and obviously energy security is part of a basic basket of needs which should be met in a rich country like ours

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              • #
                Graeme#4

                Let’s talk about death rates in winter. I believe the best reference is the Lancet article of 20 May 2015, which advised that cold weather kills 20 times as many people as hot weather.
                In 2017/2018, a prolonged spell of cold weather resulted in 50,100 excess deaths.
                In Australia, the number of deaths attributable to cold weather is around 8%, while hot weather causes around 2% of deaths. Strangely, it’s Brisbane folks that are most affected.

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              • #
                Graeme#4

                And about 3.5 million people, mostly women and children, die from respiratory illness each year due to harmful indoor air pollution from wood and biomass cooking stoves. If only these folks had access to cheap energy…

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              • #
                Graeme#4

                In the UK, about 3000 folks are dying each year because they can’t afford to heat their homes.
                In Spain in 2014, more than 7,000 people dies from causes associated with energy poverty. The Spanish energy costs have risen by around 60% since 2007.
                In the US, energy poverty in Vermont kills more people than car crashes.

                20

              • #
                AndyG55

                ” The example I cited about the fish”

                AGAIN with the mis-information.

                Nearly all the pollution in Lake Macquarie comes from remnants of the Cockle Creek area.

                You KNOW that.. so stop the misdirection.

                As for the lung issue where the statistics are all over the place as to be meaningless.

                The people in these regions are working people, often alcohol and smoking is higher than the norm in the overall population.

                Ben Eward has been an anti-coal activist basically his whole life.

                You have NOTHING, as always.

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            • #
              beowulf

              That’s your best shot is it?
              For health
              You cite a report by Beyond Zero Emissions (so no bias there) which doesn’t address the hard stats presented by the NSW Health Dept report, the findings of which I already summarised above in 3.3.3.1 : “no evidence of a significant difference in problems managed or medications prescribed . . .” etc.

              For fish
              You cite an article from that well known scientific journal — Fishing World — about PFAS which has zero to do with power station emissions. PFAS is a dirty word in the lower Hunter because of contamination of the Port Stephens hinterland and of part of the Hunter’s main water supply by PFAS runoff from the Williamtown RAAF base.

              You then cite a Hunter Community Environment Centre report in the Newcastle Herald, a Fairfax rag (once again, no bias there) about heavy metals in the lake. The report somehow attributes all the heavy metals present in the lake to the activities of the 2 power stations, conveniently ignoring over a century of lead and zinc smelting next to the lake.

              The heavy metals are largely residues from smelting at Boolaroo. The smelter shut down in 2003 but the surrounding area is quite contaminated. A massive remediation program has been undertaken for the land, but very little is possible for the contaminated lake sediments as I alluded to in 3.3.3.1.1. Once again, this has nothing to do with the power stations at the opposite end of the lake. Lake Mac is a very big lake.

              For air quality
              You cite a Newcastle Herald article where the Lake Macquarie city council estimates premature deaths from air pollution in Lake Macquarie are costing up to $205million a year.
              Lake Macquarie Council is a greenie–infested council that runs about warning land owners of imminent sea level rise and all manner of green drivel. Once again, this flies in the face of the hard stats that say there is no observable effect on human populations.

              Remediation
              Where was it ever promised that any open cut mine would be “brought back to the original condition of the land”? It’s a physical impossibility when you remove a few hundred thousand tons of coal from a site to have it look the same. For a start it’s going to be lower. You’re making stuff up again. The mines are remediated to the conditions imposed by their mining leases, which are quite specific and strict.

              How are those remediation figures for wind turbines coming along?

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        • #
          AndyG55

          “it does not have to pay for the damage it causes”

          Poor PF, stuck in his little fabricated miasma.

          ZERO evidence as always.

          Just make it up to suit your feeble self-hatred of modern society.

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          • #
            FarmerDoug2

            Sometimes I suspect PF is ghost by Jo to get discussion going. These are the “discussions” we have to face on the ground. I don’t find Andys negative attitude helps.
            That said Andy does present a lot of useful thoughts.
            Doug

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            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Doug, “negative”.

              I would have thought that the term would be more applicable to the person who writes endless comments that carry no information, inquiry or useful comment.

              Andy is merely pointing that out and “content free” comments should be seen for what they are; Abusive Blog Clogging.

              Free speech isn’t free and we have to fight for it.

              KK

              111

              • #
                FarmerDoug2

                PF blogs the “content free” stuff we have to deel with on the ground.
                My recent attacker, after she discovered I was a “den?r” presented a simular distorted argument. Telling her she was makeing stuff up to suit her society wasn’t going to hack it. That’s what she had been told and she believed it.
                Doug

                30

            • #
              AndyG55

              I say it as I see it.

              It is NOT negative thoughts, it is just stating the facts.

              Sorry you are unable to cope with that.

              42

              • #
                FarmerDoug2

                I cope with it just like I do with some of the people I have to try and dialogue with regularly. Telling PF he is .. .. again won’t help.
                Your thoughts may not be negative, and may be facts, but they are not positive.
                You do present a lot of good stuff but I am amazed that Peter stays around. We need to be a bit gentle or nobody will be listening at all.
                Doug

                40

              • #
                AndyG55

                Yawn, I do NOT need to be even the slightest gentle with PF.

                You need to harden up and stop being so namby-pamby.

                62

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘ …. ongoing heavy metal pollution levels in the lake system to years of coal ash accumulation from the ageing Eraring and Vales Point power stations.’

                The evidence is overwhelming, the power plants don’t have scrubbers, so they should pay for the pollution.

                02

              • #
                beowulf

                El Gordo

                NO!!! The evidence against the power stations is only overwhelming if you ignore 95% of it.

                The heavy metals in Lake Mac are due to 106 years of lead and zinc smelting next to the lake. For three quarters of the smelter’s existence there were zero environmental controls on smelting activities and emissions. Cockle Creek below the smelter fed contamination directly into the northern end of the lake. There are serious heavy metal levels in sediments at that end, far from where the power stations are sited towards the southern end.

                The power stations have nothing to do with the existing contamination.

                40

              • #
                el gordo

                Thanks beowulf, I stand corrected.

                10

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                El G, the plants had scrubbers but when due for renewal one plant was given a politically inspired dispensation not to spend the money.
                Possibly they were putting the idea that the plant was to be dynamite soon anyhow to save the planet.

                That’s political and shows what NSW EPA and government think of the workers and pleas.

                Corruption? Is anyone getting a Quid pro quo?

                We desperately need a Ministry of Truth to examine government decisions for us.

                But that will only happen after we get out of the U.N.

                AusExit. KK

                KK

                10

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Pleas = plebs

                10

        • #
          AndyG55

          The production of wind turbines and solar panels is MAGNITUDED more polluting that the basically NON-polluting of modern coal fired power stations.

          But it in China, so let’s not concern ourselves about that , hey PF. just use these DIRTY, FILTHY, environment destroying products.

          Not to mention the massive widespread damage done to once untouched areas in the installation of wind and solar farms, and the avian destruction that comes with them.

          181

          • #
            yarpos

            Any evidence Andy? sounds ike rather a red wine fuelled claim, not that I really understand what you are saying about “magnituded”. You talking build, or per MWh out or what?

            31

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Yarpos,
              Much of China’s generating capacity is like our old “power stations” of the 1950.

              They just burned the coal and we payed the price, soot and chemical clouds over the city.

              Today, when the authorities don’t give a free pass to their mates, our existing technology is probably the equal of any other around the world.

              While chyna does have the new HELE and that source which will not be mentioned because it is unmentionable, we don’t have that new technology here but our existing fleet is probably not far behind China’s best pollution wise.

              HELEs advantage is most likely that it requires less coal to be burned per kWh and so create less CO2 and therefore be invited to enter the Church of Perpetually Indulged Klimate Scientists.

              I think it’s funny that La France, the home of Nuclear Electricity Generation, NEG, is pushing hard to punish coal: isn’t Nuclear Bad?

              KK

              80

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Hi Yarpos,

              Many years ago I asked myself the same question.

              So I did the work and found specs for a run of the mill coal fired power plant and a wind turbine.

              The first thing done was to note the output of each in kWhs.

              Then I made an assumption, namely that the total mass of the production facility, in each case was roughly comparable both in cost and CO2 debt/liberated during construction.

              Estimates of the total mass were calculated for the coal plant by use of Google Earth liberally and much of the turbine mass was detailed online.

              For the mass involved wind turbines don’t give many kWh per tonne of infrastructure.
              Coal is much more CO2 friendly than wind.

              KK

              60

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Didn’t make that clear,

                ” Then I made an assumption,” ,,, that cost per tonne of construction material was the same in each case, but obviously the coal plant had more tonnes.

                30

            • #
              AndyG55

              small typo.. should have been ““magnitudes”.

              Do some research on the total mess made at Baotou China due to the massive increase in manufacture of rare earths for to build wind turbine rotors.

              60

            • #
              AndyG55

              “red wine fuelled claim”

              I don’t drink alcohol.

              I’m annoyed, and I think that its time to start fighting this anti-CO2 nonsense, head on, at every point.

              Pointing it out for the fantasy that it is.

              81

          • #
            theRealUniverse

            The pictures in these articles just sum up the worthlessness of wind, I love them, wish more of them would suffer the fate
            https://stopthesethings.com/2019/06/08/wsj-dares-to-doubt-what-if-wind-solar-transition-arent-inevitable-after-all/

            20

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              An engineer looking at a wind turbine can see the potential structural breaking points.

              All politicians can see is a gigantic advertisement for their eco_virtue image that will get them more votes.

              The big mistake many people make is to believe that the renewables industry is a logical development of the democratic working of society, it’s not, it is multifaceted Corruption.

              In a true democracy the perpetrators of this madness would be in gaol for a long time.

              Why aren’t they?

              Where is Australia’s “lost” $444 Million of taxpayer dollars?

              How is this possible in a democracy?

              KK

              10

        • #
          AndyG55

          “coal would not be the poster boy you make it out to be.”

          Again we see PF displaying a total lack of any mind function whatsoever.

          Coal is the main agent in the building of EVERY civilised modern society.

          Without COAL, modern society WOULD NOT EXIST.

          151

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Peter, you and I had a similar discussion recently, when I called you out on these specious claims. Yet here you are back again with the same health claims. There is NO evidence to back you up, and I have yet to see you offer any. So why do you keep repeating these claims?

          100

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Hi Graeme, not sure which particular claims you are concerned about?

            10

            • #
              AndyG55

              There is basically ZERO evidence for any claims that PF makes.

              Its mostly just pure fantasy.

              61

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                All his comments are conflated eco-garbage except the one about coal fired generators being cheapest.
                As Graeme pointed out, his comments had all been previously dismissed, hence nothing to talk about.

                KK

                50

            • #
              Graeme#4

              Hi KK. I believe Peter raised the discredited Latrobe Valley Report, the same one as I think Beowulf is referring to up-thread. This report is regularly raised by green (or GetUp) commenters in The Oz, and it was widely condemned by local health professionals. I also pointed Peter to a CSIRO document about the lack of health issues with coal, and Peter’s only response was that it referred to Black, not brown coal. As yet I haven’t mastered links here, but I can provide more details on these two documents plus others I have on file.

              20

          • #
            Hanrahan

            Has anyone ever had a GP ask how long you have lived in a certain district that may, or not, have industrial pollution or water with that metal I’m not game to mention?

            Thought not, and if there were statistical differences in diseases they would be interested. It’s a long day’s drive to the nearest coal fired plant from my patch and our trade wind is straight out of the deep south Pacific but our lifespan is prolly lower than in the capitals with self-destructive behaviours and less available health care being two factors.

            20

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            the links are there as they were last time. In particular, the one about the toxicity of the fish in Lake Macquarie should give you pause.

            08

            • #
              AndyG55

              “toxicity of the fish in Lake Macquarie”

              Again, you are throwing a deceitful mis-direction.

              The toxicity, DOES NOT come from coal fired power

              Stop your nonsense.

              You have been shown that, but STILL you try to get away with your deceit.

              61

        • #

          How about “Death Rays”, Fitz?
          There must be lots of those.
          That coal has been in the ground since the paleozoic. Must have grown zillions of death rays by now, eh?
          Where do your source your baloney?

          71

        • #
      • #
        Hanrahan

        It’s the miners’ fault we have such a “carbon footprint”, not only do they fly in and out to work a few times a month but when they get there they drive mammoth dump trucks or mile long trains. The fuel should be deducted from their pay. :D

        64

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          I remind you that thousands (possibly 20,000) believers in the evils of CO2 are planning to fly to Chile for the next climate conference which will do absolutely nothing to reduce any CO2 emissions. The Conference as well (see 3.1 above where approx. 84% of emissions come from countries ignoring the IPCC).
          Since our emissions are dropping as a percentage of the whole, shouldn’t we be subsidising those miners rather than the owners of wind turbines collecting money with no proof that they are delivering anything.

          160

        • #
          Just Thinkin'

          Hanrahan,

          Some people probably wouldn’t realise that you
          forgot to add the /sarc Tag…

          70

        • #
          RickWill

          Trucks and trains are increasingly automated – who’s pay should be deducted for the fuel?
          https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/no-one-behind-the-wheel-the-new-workforce-driving-australia-s-mines-20190411-p51dd2.html

          The trains are the newest faces of automation in Australia’s evolving mining industry. An industry where autonomous trucks drive around without human hands on the steering wheel, driverless trains snake their way hundreds of kilometres through the Pilbara, and autonomous blast hole rigs drill deep into the ground.

          Mines are a great place for testing automation because the operating environment can be almost completely controlled; the ideal test track. Underground mines are the best because the atmosphere can be completely controlled; no rain, no lightning, near constant temperature, no radio interference and, if deep enough, free from nuclear attack.

          40

          • #
            Hanrahan

            Years ago the mining cos started hiring female drivers because they were kinder to the trucks and took warning lights seriously.

            But your point is taken re automation but that doesn’t change my point that mining is an energy intensive industry with relatively low employment ergo A large “carbon footprint” per worker.

            10

        • #
          Geoff Sherrington

          Hanrahan,
          These days those huge mine trucks are more likely to have a computer operator in Perth behind the wheel, not a person with petty problems like union demands, sick leave, moods affecting performance and so on.
          In one case I know well, an underground rock collapse caused a death and hastened the decision to go fully without people underground. It takes exceptional science and engineering, plus a lot of money, but the mining industry here is noted for that. So much for those who bash mining safety out of ignorance as they cling to mental pictures of Victorian coal miners with candles, pit ponies and picks as dramatised on TV.
          Geoff

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        • #
          Hanrahan

          This photo gallery will put the fuel use in perspective [son's page]

          https://www.flickr.com/photos/dark_orange/albums/72157607497979216

          10

      • #
        PeterS

        Well the big emitters of the world are doing very little so why are we rushing around like chickens without heads trying to reduce our emissions so drastically, which is patently obvious it will have nil impact on the climate? The big test for Morrison will come very soon when Liddell is next on the chopping block while hundreds of new coal fired power stations are being built elsewhere in the world.

        110

        • #

          More to the point: why discuss “emissions” at all? The topic might as well be witches, werewolves, and vampires.
          By insisting that HELE plants produce fewer “emissions” and spruicking expensive nuclear plants that produce none at all, we are simply suggesting to John Q Public that “emissions” have anything to do with it.

          80

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        That 46 millions tons will have been long absorbed by now.

        00

  • #
    pat

    Bill in Oz – comment #39 on Jo’s previous thread – “It’s a Tech Wreck…” – posted the following:

    9 Jun: ABC: Blue Mountains World Heritage status on notice as report questions Warragamba Dam proposal
    By Nick Sas
    A UN report assessing the state of the Blue Mountains’ World Heritage listing has raised “concerns” about the proposed raising of the Warragamba Dam…
    It comes as hundreds attended a rally in the Blue Mountains today to protest the Warragamba Dam proposal, which will see the dam wall raised by 14 metres to help water retention and as a means of stopping flooding in north-west and western Sydney.

    The Warragamba Dam is used to supply water to Sydney — but indigenous leaders in the area fear it would result in the upstream inundation of significant cultural sites…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-09/warragamba-dam-proposal-un-concerns-world-heritage-site/11194166

    ***O’Donnell, in the following, claims Australia can’t build any dams:

    AUDIO: 11min54sec: 8 Jun: ABC Blueprint for Living: Jonathan Green: Water for thirsty cities
    Guests:
    ***Erin O’Donnell, Early Career Academic Fellow, Melbourne Law School
    Chris Chesterfield, Director Strategic Engagement at the Cooperative Research Centre for Water Sensitive Cities, Monash University
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/blueprintforliving/water-for-thirsty-cities/11176282

    paraphrasing: at 3min17sec –
    JONATHAN GREEN brings in X Factor – CAGW – giggles.
    ***O’DONNELL: because of CAGW, dams are off the list, particularly in Australia, in Victoria. there’s nowhere we could build one that could offset the economic & environmental costs of a new dam. Cape Town – terrifying ETC.
    GREEN: do we need to change our attitude?
    CHESTERFIELD: have to return to how the indigenous people interracted with natural resources ETC.
    GREEN: it’s interesting how many conversations in this country around stressed elements of the ecology go back to the potential of ancient wisdom and resolution…
    CHESTERFIELD: part of the transition we’re involved in at the moment.
    GREEN: opportunity propelled by this sense of crisis (giggles)
    O’DONNELL: acute sense of crisis, one might argue (laughs).

    Uni of Melbourne Law School: ***Dr Erin O’Donnell
    In 2018, Erin was appointed to the inaugural Birrarung Council, the voice of the Yarra River.

    posted the brief bit from her bio to verify this is the same O’Donnell below:

    29 May: DocklandNews: What if Melbourne was underwater?
    By Meg Hill
    A Melbourne Knowledge Week (MKW) event posed the question “What if Melbourne was underwater?” To which the answer was given: it was, it is and it will be…
    The third panellist, Dr Erin O’Donnell, is a member of the Birrarung Council – the voice of the Yarra.
    She’s done research into the new field of legal rights for rivers, and said one of the interesting things in Melbourne is how our relationship with the Yarra has changed.
    “We used to be embarrassed of our rivers, but now we embrace them,” she said.
    “In the context of this conversation around climate change there’s a tendency to frame this as apocalyptic, but it’s a future we already have.”
    “But it’s also a future we have to understand in the context of the past we have been living with, and that the Aboriginal people have been living with for tens of thousands of years.”
    https://www.docklandsnews.com.au/editions/article/what-if-melbourne-was-underwater_15318/

    20

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Pat I listen to Jonathan Green in tiny homepathic doses
      He is a bigotted idiot.

      A second perspective : The Warragamba dam has been there . for 60-70m years….supplying water too Sydney. Thus the area is not pristine bush and has NOT been for a long time. The bush around it was preserved to provide clean water

      But somehow it is a ‘world heritage area” and thus comes under the purview of the UN …

      Can anyone else see the contradiction here ?

      Or perhaps can olk see that thisn is just utter BullSh*t from dopey idiot propagandists.

      130

    • #
      David Wojick

      I posted this below, about not being able to build flood control dams in the U.S. either, so it fits here too:
      https://www.cfact.org/2019/06/07/flooding-ourselves-with-valuable-water/

      60

    • #
      yarpos

      “CHESTERFIELD: have to return to how the indigenous people interracted with natural resources ETC.
      GREEN: it’s interesting how many conversations in this country around stressed elements of the ecology go back to the potential of ancient wisdom and resolution…”

      Yes because that is such a realistic option in 2019 for cities of 5 million plus people isnt it?

      More magical thinking

      Still they do sort of resort to “ancient wisdom” in their beliefs in myths and made up bogeymen.

      70

    • #
      Ve2

      “But it’s also a future we have to understand in the context of the past we have been living with, and that the Aboriginal people have been living with for tens of thousands of years.”

      And we can all return to the Stone Age.

      10

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘… a national study of what Americans understand about how the climate system works, and the causes, impacts, and potential solutions to global warming.

    ‘The test given to 2030 American adults resulted in catastrophic results. A full 77% of them achieved a grade of only D or F (52%). I know from 50 years of talking to and dealing with politicians at all levels that their knowledge is as bad. In one way it is worse because politicians take stronger, more definitive positions that preclude an open mind.’

    Tim Ball

    160

    • #
      Richard Ilfeld

      I hate to bring this up, because it always leads to difficult discussions. Understanding complex issues is hard, and requires an affirmative effort to acquire knowledge. On any measure of human capacity, half of us are at or below average, and half below the median. On a population such as the US, a truly random sample of 1250 or so gave give decent reading of the population, plus or minus a point or two. But, almost regardless of the topic, if it requires acquisition & retention of knowledge or a result of logical thought, the result will be the same. A combination of lack of capacity, lack of interest, lack or time and opportunity, and purposively misleading instruction leaves most of us ignorant of everything; a primary reason the US is Republic rather than a Democracy, if on reads the Founders documents carefully.
      This is well understood by totalitarians, who persuade but nonetheless always, in their more philosophical texts, use disparaging terms to represent the bulk of the people.

      Survey the mass and you get a mess.

      One can be disappointed in quite a different way if one surveys college students.

      Charles Murray may not have been “right”, and certainly was not woke, but he was correct.

      60

    • #
      ivan

      el gordo, a link would be helpful.

      40

      • #
        • #
          ivan

          I can’t help wondering how long it took them to craft the questions to get the results they presupposed were correct.

          It appears that they started from their UN Church of Climatology view and fitted the questions to support that.

          The other thing that should be considered, considering the election poll results, how sure can we be of the results of this poll – how much was it people telling them what they wanted to hear and not ehat they actually thought?

          20

          • #
            el gordo

            We need a universal debate before hand, then all the polls would condemn AGW through lack of imperical evidence.

            10

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              I thought you were saying “imperial” evidence for a moment, the sort that might be given by Prince Charles.
              :-)

              10

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          That’s a great article El G.

          10

        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          Thanks e g,
          Your link includes another to the actual Yale report on the survey. That includes the questions asked and indicates the “correct” answers. I’ve just read through all 50 odd of them and was surprised at how many of the answers have been proven wrong.
          For example, just two: CO2 causes ocean acidification; and CO2 stays in the atmosphere for hundreds of years or longer.
          I suggest the study has no merit.
          Cheers,
          Dave B

          20

    • #
      David Wojick

      Note that the survey assumes negative impacts and the need for “solutions”. It is in this regard just as ignorant as those surveyed, in a way more so. False beliefs are often worse than simple ignorance.

      60

      • #
        Hanrahan

        False beliefs are often worse than simple ignorance.

        Does that explain why the WWW has spread far more disinformation than real info?

        I love the web, we here are now far better informed than we once were but we are outnumbered by those who just find it a great platform to spread lies to abuse others who question them.

        30

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Here in Bunbury WA for the weekend, nice place including Perth but we brought the rain with us…you’re welcome.

    100

    • #
      Peter C

      That is a shame.

      The weather has cleared up in Ballarat, just for the long weekend. It will be back to rain by the time you get back.

      50

      • #
        Yonniestone

        That’d be right, we still had a good time and the scenery is beautiful, one thing that’s impressed us is the smooth roads here after coming from the Victorian goat tracks we call highways.

        50

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Our WA farmers are loving you.

      40

      • #
        Yonniestone

        I’m glad sounds like they needed it, coming from Ballarat it’s warm for us and we got strange looks wearing shorts and t-shirts.

        40

        • #
          Annie

          The same sort of strange looks our Dubai-based son received when holidaying on the Gold Coast one summer and wore his thick fleece to the beach. Stupified Qlders were more used to southerners coming up and complaining about the hest and humidity.

          20

          • #
            Annie

            Heat, should have proof read…sigh.

            30

            • #
              Greebo

              Relativity, hey? In February in the early 80s I was at Brisbane’s old Eagle Farm airport, where pax disembarked directly onto the tarmac. A flight had landed that had been a connection for an international from Mascot. There were maybe a dozen of folf from your country, Annie, all decked out in suits, vests and carrying overcoats, or the feminine ( if I’m still allowed to say that ) equivalent. I really shouldn’t have laughed, as their situation was a little dire, but they simply melted. I can think of no better word. Lucky they didn’t land in Darwin. Of Melbourne for that matter.

              10

  • #
    pat

    followup to comment #19 on Jo’s previous thread “It’s a Tech Wreck” – Daily Beast piece re:

    8 Jun: WaPo: WH blocked intelligence agency’s written testimony calling climate change ‘possibly catastrophic’
    by Juliet Eilperin, Josh Dawsey and Brady Dennis
    The effort to edit, and ultimately suppress, the prepared testimony by the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research comes as the Trump administration is debating how best to challenge the fact that burning fossil fuels is warming the planet and could pose serious risks unless the world makes deep cuts in greenhouse gas emissions over the next decade…

    from the following, it appears the Dems thought they were on to a ***good thing:

    5 Jun: Politico Morning Energy: House Intel tackles climate change
    By KELSEY TAMBORRINO; With help from Alex Guillén and Anthony Adragna
    Quick Fix
    — The House Intelligence panel will examine climate change’s effects on national security in a hearing today…
    Driving the Day
    INTEL PROCESSING: The House Intelligence Committee will examine the national security implications of climate change at a hearing this morning. Unlike some of the other House climate hearings that have occurred since Democrats took control of the chamber, today’s hearing will feature testimony from a State Department analyst and intelligence officials.

    On the witness table: Rod Schoonover, a senior analyst in the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research who has studied the intersection of science and national security for years; Peter Kiemel, a counselor on the National Intelligence Council; and Jeffrey Ringhausen, a senior analyst at the Office of Naval Intelligence…

    The committee says it is seeking testimony on everything from new patterns of migration to threats posed to U.S. military bases and “China’s potential to influence and become a leader in new norms on climate policy.”

    Background: While Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said climate change doesn’t rank as a top national security threat and that melting sea ice in the Arctic presents “new opportunities for trade,” the Pentagon has cited climate change as a threat to two-thirds of U.S. military installations.

    ***The Intelligence panel, led by Chairman Adam Schiff and ranking member Devin Nunes, could see a rare moment of comity on the issue of climate change, as its Republican ranks include Elise Stefanik from New York, who was one of three GOP lawmakers to back H.R. 9 (116), Democrats’ bill to keep the U.S. in the Paris climate accord.
    If you go: The hearing begins at 8:30 a.m. in 1100 Longworth. Watch here (***LINK).
    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/morning-energy/2019/06/05/house-intel-tackles-climate-change-443490

    ***links to:

    Youtube: 1h39m30s: 5 Jun: Open Hearing on National Security Implications of Climate Change
    posted by House Intelligence
    On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 8:30 am, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence will convene an open hearing about the national security implications of climate change. During this hearing, the Committee will examine the impacts of a changing climate and associated extreme weather events on U.S. security interests and on economic, political, social, and humanitarian conditions globally.
    Witnesses include:
    • Peter Kiemel, Counselor, National Intelligence Council
    • Jeffrey Ringhausen, Senior Analyst, Office of Naval Intelligence
    • Rod Schoonover, Office of Geography and Global Affairs, State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCheD2L-zDY

    caught a bit of Schoonover – not exactly impressive.

    30

    • #
      pat

      ***William Happer partly credited!

      9 Jun: BusinessInsider: The White House reportedly blocked climate testimony warning of a ‘possibly catastrophic’ future because it didn’t ‘jibe’ with Trump’s policy
      by Aria Bendix
      The testimony, prepared by the US State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research, predicted that greenhouse gas emissions would contribute “significant” and “possibly catastrophic” harm to the planet…
      In his written testimony, Schoonover predicted that the “the compounded effects of climate change” would produce “significant,” “possibly catastrophic,” harm to the planet. The ability to prevent this future, he wrote, will depend partly on humanity’s efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions…

      The testimony was reportedly opposed by members of the White House’s Office of Legislative Affairs, Office of Management and Budget, and National Security Council, including ***William Happer, a National Security Council senior director. Happer, who was dismissed from his post at the Department of Energy in 1993, has stated that most of Earth’s warming “has probably been due to natural causes.”.
      Before the White House barred Schoonover’s written testimony, the Bureau of Intelligence and Research reportedly refused a request from the Trump administration to eliminate certain scientific claims…

      ***Here are a few claims from the written document, first obtained by the Washington Post…ETC

      ***Read the bureau’s full written testimony below…READ ON
      https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-blocked-climate-testimony-trump2019-6-2019-6

      5 Jun: ABC America: US officials warn of climate risk as Trump dismisses it
      By Eric Tucker, Associated Press
      Military and intelligence officials outlined a range of long-term threats arising from climate change, including food and water shortages that can produce political turmoil and land disputes, as well as melting ice in the Arctic that Russia and other adversaries could exploit for commercial gain.
      “Climate change effects could undermine important international systems on which the U.S. is critically dependent, such as trade routes, food and energy supplies, the global economy, and domestic stability abroad,” Rod Schoonover, a senior State Department analyst focusing on global issues, told members of the House Intelligence Committee. “Most countries, if not all, are already unable to fully respond to the risks posed by climate-linked hazards under present conditions.
      The assessments laid bare the disconnect between senior officials who regard climate change as a long-term, global threat and the views of President Donald Trump, who has repeatedly broken from that message and even belittled his own government’s views…

      9 Jun: Business Insider: The White House is stonewalling Congress left and right on everything from the environment to the Census
      by David Choi
      Rod Schoonover, a State Department employee, had his written climate change analysis scrutinised by various White House departments, according to The Washington Post.
      Schoonover was allowed to testify at a House Intelligence Committee hearing but was not allowed to submit his statement for the record, The Post reported…
      Rod Schoonover, a State Department employee and a former professor of chemistry and biochemistry at California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo, was in the process of submitting a 12-page testimony on the “disruptive” effects of climate change to the House Intelligence Committee, The Washington Post reported.
      But Schoonover’s written testimony received heavy scrutiny from officials in the White House’s Office of Legislative Affairs, Office of Management and Budget, and National Security Council, some of whom sought to delete portions that did not coincide with the Trump administration’s position, numerous senior officials said to The Post…
      The Trump administration has been criticised for scaling back efforts to address climate change and casting doubt on the association between the change in climate and human activity…

      LinkedIn: Rod Schoonover, Bridging national security and environmental and ecological issues
      Adjunct Professor, Georgetown University
      December 2018 – Present
      Rod Schoonover’s Activity
      Rod Schoonover liked this
      Today I joined the social justice champions…etc
      Senior Scientist
      U.S. Department of State
      September 2009 – Present…
      Professor
      Cal Poly State University
      August 1997 – August 2013
      Visiting Research Professor
      The Scripps Research Institute
      August 2000 – October 2001…ETC
      https://www.linkedin.com/in/rodschoonover

      INR was originally directly connected to OSS, now CIA, but doubt if much has changed on that score:

      Wikipedia: Bureau of Intelligence and Research
      It is the oldest civilian intelligence agency in the U.S. Intelligence Community, as well as one of the smallest, with roughly 300 personnel…
      The INR originated from the Research and Analysis Branch (R&A Branch) of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which was established during World War II to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the Axis powers…
      It reviews and publishes close to two million reports and produces about 3,500 intelligence assessments annually. The Bureau is strictly analytical and does not engage in counterintelligence or espionage…
      The INR is headed by the Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and Research, currently Daniel B. Smith, who reports directly to the secretary of state and serves as the secretary’s primary intelligence advisor. Ellen E. McCarthy was nominated to this position on 12 June 2018…

      40

      • #
        TdeF

        “Schoonover predicted that the “the compounded effects of climate change” would produce “significant,” “possibly catastrophic,” harm to the planet.”

        So we enter a new era. “Climate Change” without “Global Warming”.

        Plus no one has actually established that we humans can change CO2 levels. From the evidence of the last 31 years, we cannot.

        140

        • #
          Serp

          Yeah, that “harm to the planet” phrase had me involuntarily scoffing at the overreach of this sanctimonious idiocy that spews from the gobs of these self styled custodians and protectors of the universe; this is beyond simple delusions of grandeur and brings me back to the need for re-education camps for the benighted hectoring wretches.

          140

          • #
            RickWill

            I am happy to be called a denier by a dingbat (delusional climate change believer high on their chosen drug). It confirms that they only have religious faith in something that cannot be proven or disproven.

            60

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          We all KNOW why it was changed to “Climate Change” (from globull warming) because there was NO evidence for ANY warming, in fact the reverse, they got caught out, so had to slap on a new lable to keep the scam alive.

          20

      • #
        David Wojick

        Hypothetical security vulnerability is the big confusion!

        The military has a practice called “vulnerability analysis” in which a facility or system is assessed via a hypothetical thought experiment. The hypothesis can be extreme. I have done a few that were completely unrealistic.

        These alarmist military and intelligence reports are just this sort of vulnerability analysis.

        They are all of this logical form:

        “Suppose an extreme case of climate change happens, what adverse security effects might it cause?”

        These are in no sense realistic threat assessments if extreme climate change is not going to occur and there is no reason to think that it will.

        That these are not threat assessments calling for actual action needs to be made clear. As extreme hypothesis vulnerability analyses they might be okay.

        This is a huge confusion. (Confusion is my field.)

        60

  • #
    beowulf

    Paul Homewood has a piece on relative costs of wind v. nuclear.
    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/06/07/harrabin-promotes-eco-loons-subsidising-submarines-claims/

    The current UK rates for offshore wind are running around £130 to £136/MWh, and will continue to be indexed to inflation until the contracts expire. DRAX is getting £105/MWh.

    That’s nothing compared to the SR2000, the most “cost effective” and the “world’s most powerful” floating tidal power generator, sited off Scotland, weighing 550 tonnes and 64 metres long, rated at 2MW, which “smashed generation records” when it managed to produce 18MWh over its best 24 hour period. In 12 months of full-time operation, the SR2000 turbine supplied the equivalent annual power demand of “about 830 households”. No hard figures.

    It is so cost-effective that the owners think it will generate a profit at the state funded rate of £300/MWh. That’s AU$540/MWh or 13.5 times the Hazelwood cost (at $40/MWh). And you thought Turnbull Jr had it good.

    “The SR2000’s phenomenal performance has set a new benchmark for the tidal industry. Its first year of testing has delivered a performance level approaching that of widely deployed mature renewable technologies.”

    The main benchmark it appears to be setting is the highest subsidised cost of power production and I thought other renewables weren’t mature technologies, which is why they need constant propping up with other people’s money.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/scotland-floating-turbine-tidal-power-record-sr2000-scotrenewables-ofgem-a8503221.html
    http://analysis.newenergyupdate.com/tidal-today/scotrenewables-eyes-cost-savings-largest-floating-turbine

    150

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      The canny scots are always will to waste money on watery tidal generating elephants.
      They’s got lots of money to burn from taxing the off shore North sea oil & gas fields.

      40

    • #
      yarpos

      Operating in a marine environment and declaring success after one year? a bit premature I think.

      I imagine the operators of the off shore wind farm that need every blade replaced thought something similar.

      70

  • #
    • #
      TdeF

      “Nonetheless, the role of models as privileged tools to advance our scientific knowledge of the Earth’s system remains undisputed.”

      Rubbish.

      130

      • #
        el gordo

        Junk in junk out, but if we feed in paleo climate history a clearer picture would emerge.

        30

  • #
    joseph

    This is a Catalyst program on Wi-Fi from a couple of years ago . . . . Wi-Fried . . . .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5ZOJZQbkmI&t=614s

    21

    • #
      TdeF

      On average Chinese people have 2.5 phones. Well, that’s the end of the Chinese. Or perhaps they will be the first telephone transmission proof race? If they survive We-Chat and 5G.

      50

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        5G will be an issue, but not for the reasons people think – namely it will be the myriad of small army of IoT devices that are 5G enabled in your home and around you that will slowly roast you…. :-)

        The other issue with 5G is that it needs towers – lots and lots of towers….very close to homes, schools, and everything else….

        We have an atmosphere to protect us, then we dopey humans re-create the stuff were shielded from – underneath it…..doh!

        71

        • #
          Hanrahan

          Remember the inverse square law, and towers aren’t high power to start with. The far lower power hand held device at your ear so close to the brain is a greater issue, methinks.

          60

          • #
            TdeF

            The Greens have nothing to worry about.

            60

          • #
            Hanrahan

            I’m thinking of antenna theory and from the pics I’ve seen of towers they have arrays of vertical dipole antennae which makes sense. The radiation pattern of such an antenna is a doughnut with only scatter radiation in the vertical plane, the strongest being horizontal. Makes sense, what radiated power they have, they want to go to the horizon, not into space or ground. Arrays prolly amplify this so there is a horizontal gain of + 5 or whater they can achieve. The higher that number the less radiation beamed into the nearby streets. So if there is a tower close, but above your head the radiation dose would be minimal.

            50

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            The IoT paradigm is likely to be a major cause of cancer in years to come…..the towers arent the issue, its all the point sources of microwave band RF people will be in close proximity to thats concerns me…..

            20

            • #
              Graeme#4

              If you are concerned about the microwave point sources around your home, why not setup a simple RF measuring device and measure their energy, say at one metre or the range where you are closest to them, then compare this to the RF energy produced by your mobile phone at close range – as if it was placed on the side of your head. These simple tests will give quantifiable data.

              00

      • #
        yarpos

        The average person in my house has 2.5 phones, maybe more of I really start digging around.

        20

        • #
          Ve2

          We have 1 1/2 at my house.
          Actually we have 2 but one is connected to the NBN and only works half the time.

          00

  • #
    liberator

    So a $715 million donation to stop coal fired electricity generation in the US to end by 2030 – just how will that work? A fool and his money are often parted…

    40

    • #
      Ve2

      Only 3% of America’s power is generated by renewables at a cost of $50 billion in subsidies.
      To go 100% would require $1.67 trillion or 11.5% of the GDP.

      10

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    6 months to go … its worse than we first thought … the 97% science that is …

    Sep 05, 2012, the Australian: Enjoy snow now . . . by 2020, it’ll be gone

    “We’ve predicted by 2020 to lose something like 60 per cent of the snow cover of the Australian Alps,” Professor Catherine Pickering, from the Griffith School of Environment, said.

    “Unfortunately because our current emissions and our current rises in temperatures are at the high end of the predictions, it’s definitely coming to us sooner and faster.”

    (Use google link, the Aust. should be first link past paywall) – https://tinyurl.com/preview.php?num=yyq7g2c9

    Whoa! Wait. What?

    BoM, June 6, 2019:

    With heavy snow over the past few weeks, it’s the best start to Australia’s #ski season in nearly 20 years!

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    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      Oops. Half my comment went missing?

      With heavy snow over the past few weeks, it’s the best start to Australia’s ski season in nearly 20 years!

      40

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      1984 1999 2012 2020 It’s all on… till suddenly it wasn’t:

      “Sorry the Temple Basin View webcam has major technical issues after the storm in early June and has failed. It probably won’t be fixed until late July!”

      http://www.arthurspass.com/index.php?page=248

      Dang temperature emission gas sumpthink caused a snow blizzard which destroyed a crucial webcam overlooking the alpine highway at Arthur’s Pass. Image is stuck on 12:15 1/6/2019 (bang-on first day of our meteorological winter) as the snow came down. The Epic Winter of 2019 has begun… hoot!

      00

  • #
    AndyG55

    I’m back !

    My father died and I have been in Hobart with my mother for the last 2 weeks while my brothers, who live down there, sorted out proceedings.

    Minimal posting for the next week or so while I catch up on work related stuff.

    Then back, firaing on all 7.5 cylinders. ;-)

    170

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Sorry for your loss Andy, my best wishes to the family and yourself.

      100

    • #
      Annie

      We wondered where you were. Sorry to hear about your father.

      80

    • #
      pat

      AndyG55 -

      condolences to you and yours. take your time, but welcome back.

      80

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      From your earlier comments it sounded as though he always had something useful to focus his efforts on.
      Being drawn through life by a challenge is important.

      KK

      50

    • #
      RickWill

      Just last week I wondered why there were no cutting comments from AndyG55.

      The hope of most parents is that their children will be orphans one day; but hopefully at a fully ripe old age.

      30

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Condolences Andy, welcome back!

      10

  • #
    Another Ian

    “To borrow a phrase from the IPCC Acolytes … I believe we’ve reached a “Tipping Point”. Yes, we now have SO MANY citizens making a very comfortable living ($£€) off CAGW … that there is NO TURNING BACK. There’s far too many $ £ € at stake to return to sanity … critical mass has been reached … too many high paid bureaucrats, corporate cronies, and snake oil purveyors have too much at stake to be defeated. Nope … only EXTREME Public DEBT (in excess of $21T US) can kill the EXTREME weather meme. The kind of EXTREME DEBT that collapses entire institutions.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/06/08/well-thats-refreshing/#comment-1213301

    70

    • #
      Richard Ilfeld

      Hmmmm. Historically, most Ponzi schemes fail because they run out of new victims.
      The best part of public debt is that one can simply default on it. This is what actually happens
      when a government thinks “this time is different”. Stretch out the payment schedule, add a little inflation, let the
      windmills crumble and bury the solar panels, and move on to the next scam.
      We may have to endure a church of climate change as a continuing low level noise source in our body politic, but I see it, after possibly one more big debt explosion as you suggest, as a spent force.

      Hey the replacement is already upon us. Fear of AI. We need to shovel bucketfuls of money to the bit-fiddlers to give us cyber security and protect us from robots. & H Clinton keynoting a cyber-security confrence is a good follow to to the Goricle on Climate change.

      40

  • #
    • #
      Bill in Oz

      It goes on to rave about the per capita CO2 produced by each country.

      And the info produced in that is Bullsh*t..

      30

      • #

        Yep. I can vouch that outside of European cities, even in well-off parts like Tuscany, people will incinerate whatever they can get their hands on. High power costs mean every branch gets burnt…none of it accounted for as “carbon” or “emission”.

        In poorer parts of the world, billions in need will burn every poop, leaf, grass blade and twig. As to the “social cost” of burning dung and raw coal indoors…I think they call that “death”, which is carbon neutral, so no biggie.

        Best way to save “emissions” is to build a shiny new coal power station and make electricity available to all through an efficient grid which is uncluttered by white elephant renewables. Not that a bit of CO2 matters.

        120

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Well, we might have to do the same as the political speech has hit the fan.

          A unit at Loy Yang (500MW) is out of action for up to 7 months.

          And Dopey Dan has indicated how he got that nickname by claiming that 2000MW of renewables will be installed before summer. As we know that means barely 500MW most of the time it looks like those inner-city Greenies will know the joys of blackouts.

          70

          • #
            Graeme#4

            Does anybody know why the Loy Yang unit will be out for a long time?

            20

            • #
              Robber

              The company said the shut unit has been out of service since May 18 following an electrical short that damaged the generator. Following a technical assessment, the company now expects it may take until December to return the unit to operation.

              50

          • #

            Loy Yang A Unit 2.

            Minus 530MW.

            All other Units in Victoria, only nine of them now, have been on line for weeks now, delivering virtually a straight line across the 24 hour graph of around 4200MW, at Capacity Factor of 90%+, day in day out.

            Feed in coal, get out power, lots of it.

            Tony.

            90

            • #
              Robber

              Seems LoyYang B2 was down for maintenance most of May, came back onstream May 28 so was able to replace the damaged LoyYang A2 to maintain that 4,200 MW reliably. Peak Vic demand is about 6,200 MW that is typically met with the addition of gas and hydro, and sometimes wind that in June has varied from 0-1,400 MW, average 500 MW.

              10

            • #
              Graeme#4

              Tony: Quick question: What’s the average CF of wind generators over one year in Australia?

              00

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Hard to know as they vary so much.
                The one at Albany WA seems to average 31-33% although 40-41& is claimed on the brass plate there.
                The ones in SA would average about 30% except that some are shut down (in rotation) by AEMO when the wind blows, and so only average 27% for the State.
                Turbines in the back blocks of NSW are said to get 25% but I haven’t seen any real figures.
                For what it is worth, the one in Antarctica was running over 50% before it was destroyed by high winds.

                10

              • #
                Graeme#4

                Thanks G3. After posting I did find more info from Tony that stated 30% average. I presume this data is based on one year’s AEMO data.

                00

              • #

                Graeme#4

                Wind plant sites claim 38% at the proposal stage, nearly every one of them. I think it’s based around a formula I once saw sometime back in 2008, and you know how there’s never any need to save the site once you have the information, because over the ensuing years I have gone looking for it time and time again, but it seems to have vanished into the ether, but every wind power proposal site uses that 38%. They couch it in terms of homes supplied with power, but once you distill down the maths, it always came out almost exactly to that figure of 38%.

                I have regularly used the figure of 30%, only to be mercilessly ‘flamed’ by pro wind supporters at some sites where I commented and used that figure, to be told that some are even as high as 42%.

                Needless to say, that figure of 30% is one I have used consistently across the recent years.

                After doing the exact data now for almost ten Months, the actual figure from the daily data gives wind power (the whole fleet of wind plants here in Australia) a Capacity Factor of 27.41%, and it’s been stable around that figure for many weeks now. I don’t envisage it will change by any significant amount when I have the full year’s data, as it changes by only hundredths of a percent each week. The week before this one just finished was the single largest week for wind power I have ever seen, and wind ran at a CF of almost 42% for the week, and that average only changed by plus 0.7%.

                I would say that the end of the full 12 Months will see a CF around 28%, give or take a few tenths of a percent for all wind here in Australia.

                I’m going to keep using that 30% figure, because the maths is a little easier, (for not much difference in the totals anyway) but I’ll have the backup of actual daily data collated out for the full year to confirm the figures I use.

                Tony.

                20

              • #
                Graeme#4

                Thanks very much for your detailed response Tony – much appreciated. I very much rely on your figures.
                One other quick question if I may – out of Vic and NSW, which state is the most reliant on energy imported from other states?
                Tried to find your website but it didn’t surface in my searches.

                00

              • #
                Ve2

                The average is immaterial, the only figure that counts is the minimum output, I.e. zero.

                00

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      They always focus on emissions . NEVER on absorption. Of course it doesnt matter what CO2 does anyway, dont get lost on a good yarn.

      10

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Just in on CO2 doesnt do anything.
        https://www.iceagenow.info/25-simple-bullet-points-proving-co2-does-not-cause-global-warming-by-a-geologist-for-a-change/
        25 bullet points by a geologist! Good work.
        THIS one
        “15) Vociferous IPCC-involved climate scientist Dr Stefan Rahmstorf (Wiki) of the German government’s Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, recipient of a US$1 million personal research grant from a private foundation, wrongly said in his 2008 article ‘Anthropogenic Climate Change’: “there is no viable alternative … ”
        BIG money talks wonders..with that type of personal grant one can say ANYTHING.

        20

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Basically says the solar-atmosphere-ocean system is so complex that NO model can predict anything reliable. Not possible to test ANY hypothesis relating to AGW in a laboratory.
          My remark. The IPCC doesnt know SQUAT about the climate!

          20

  • #
    mem

    Ever thought that if Australia upped its immigration or birth rate its per capita CO2 emissions would fall? Seems the way the boffins have calculated fairy dust has a goblins chance in hell of meaning anything at all but no one questions it so on goes the Grimm’s fairy tale. Read this https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/each-countrys-share-of-co2.html

    60

  • #
    yarpos

    Our ABC News in VIC tonight. Two items in succession.

    First item, how some Gippsland workers are moving to solar hot water manufacturing. Fair enough. Then we get talking head Tony Woods coming talking about how as renewables ramp up and energy gets “cheaper” its good to seek out these alternatives for coal workers.

    Cheare Tony? you mean like Denmark? oh wait….you mean like Germany? oh wait …..you mean like Sout Australia? oh wait …… oh never mind

    Second item, announced as story about how climate change is driving more call out for the marine animal rescue group. Item ends up being about pollution and getting fishing line of a seal. Got the magic words in anyway.

    90

  • #
    Hanrahan

    Well its the Queens birthday again. Makes me wonder WHY we are celebrating her non-birthday at all. I have grudging respect for ERII but little for the gaggle of minor royals and like most I have no appetite for Charlie as our Monarch.

    But that doesn’t mean I’m a republican. I am not against the idea in principle but we don’t need a third tier of government and I see nothing to envy in either the US or French models. But I am changing! What we need is a President with strong legal powers to uphold the Constitution, what there is of it, rather than any legislative power. A super-ombudsman if you will. Maybe he/she could be tasked with enshrining basic rights into the constitution via amendments such as the US 1st and 4th to be put to referendum.

    I look at the democratically elected governments and increasingly they are becoming ineffective. Maggie Thatcher’s fear of everyone voting to pick others’ pockets is now a reality. I honestly think Trump is giving us another chance, maybe the last. Let’s take it.

    80

    • #
      Hanrahan

      I’ve been mulling this since ’99 and it has just crossed my mind what my ideal president would be. It would be the Attorney General, taken out of cabinet and transferred to the High Court. While the PM would nominate him/her the appointment would need to be confirmed by a senate supermajority as is done in the US. I trust Australians never to do a Kavanagh.

      Preferably not a lawyer but with the High Court’s advice can independently test the constitutionality of legislation by referral to the High Court. Otherwise a rebadged GG.

      43

    • #
      GD

      Makes me wonder Why we are celebrating her non-birthday at all. I have a grudging respect for ERII

      Sir, if you can’t appreciate a royal family that spans decades and centuries, you have no soul. I suggest you read history and try to gain an understanding of what happened before your epoch of history.

      40

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      We almost had a President but the people wisely suspected that it was all about tightening the noose and gave MalEx444 the boot.
      All we need at the moment is to identify corruption in political activity and Prosecute it Strongly.

      KK

      60

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Interesting about the Royals and the civil list. The UK republican site says that majority of the EU nations still with royals have substantially trimmed their civil lists.

      00

  • #
    Graeme#4

    Lots of comments in The Oz this weekend about the Tasmanian local’s opposition to two proposed wind farms at Robbins Island and Jims Plains.

    80

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Over 600 with the usual suspects in favour of renewables – sillyfilly, Stan the “engineer” and Peter, also a Jason.
      One of my comments got deleted, it was about the actual output likely from these turbines and how long (in minutes) they would ‘save’ SA in summer.

      90

      • #
        Graeme#4

        Was also hit with a delete after I called criticised sillyfilly. She doesn’t like this site, and I believe this is because she once tried to comment here and was taken down unmercifully. Surprised to hear they would delete an engineering comment though. I find this site and WUWT provide good solid factual info that I can discuss here without being assailed by idiots.

        90

        • #
          Annie

          I wondered where sillyfilly had got to, until we subscribed to The Aus and she popped up in the comments on an article a few days ago.

          10

          • #
            Graeme#4

            I missed her (short?) time here, but I have had a lot of fun with her at The Oz, especially when she attempts anything technical.

            30

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    I saw in The Weekend Oz that the NWO was basically announcing the next play in the climate scourge – they have realized that the planned election “trick” didnt work ( Labor lost ), so they have decided to use big business to implement the climate scourge – i suspect prices will keep going up to implement “climate compliance” and up and thus slowly strangle people financially…thus destroying the middle class….Communism 101.

    Remember – Ive always said that the climate scam couldnt have got this far unless NGOs, the UN, govts and Big Business hadnt been collaborating….

    110

    • #
      toorightmate

      OriginalSteve,
      Agree entirely.
      I have been associated with the Australian Minerals Industry (and coal) my entire life (yep, even as a kid).
      The current horsesh*t which comes from Rio and BHP regarding CO2 disgusts me. They were very respectable, respected and wise companies when they were DIRECTED and MANAGED by people with mining and/of processing backgrounds. The political correctness they now attempt to comply with has ruined them.
      And for those who may not be aware they were doing more for real research into HS&E 30 years ago than they are doing these days. These days, a glossy annual report on sustainability ticks most of the boxes (which is also horsesh*t).

      150

  • #
    Hanrahan

    Words change their meaning over time. I’m watching a warrie, made in ’41 and there is an advertising poster “Twink – Cleans as it dyes”. I’m not going there.

    30

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    again, another thread with good comments giving the overview that this isn’t a scientific issue, just ugly politics.

    40

    • #
      Yonniestone

      But KK science has become ugly politics :)

      60

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Now I’m really confused.
        They’ve got us right where they want us.

        30

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Don’t fret, true science will always remain true to nature, not the unnatural laws of fiction.

          When the authors of false prophecies are exposed as wishful folly balance will restore the equilibrium.

          40

  • #
    DaleC

    I’ve updated my AEMO charts for demand and price to May 31th.

    https://redcentresoftware.com/wp-content/uploads/AEMO_Demand_and_Price_by_State.pdf

    Demand and price for each state, two series per chart per state.
    I have changed the order so that time series (by day, week, month, quarter, year) are now the first 25 charts.
    These give the quick overview of new data points since April, in historical context since 1999.
    The Year charts have 2019 to date, so the last point will change as each new month is added.

    https://redcentresoftware.com/wp-content/uploads/AEMO_Demand_and_Price_All_States.pdf

    Demand comparing all states, 5 series per chart
    Price comparing all states, 5 series per chart
    The LNDay30 charts at the end of each section are at 30 minute resolution for the last N=7, 15, 30, 90 and 120 days.

    Control-click to open in a new browser window.
    The PDFs are each under 10 meg, so should appear within a few seconds.

    20

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Dale, that is a huge data dump.
      Not sure it is of any value like that.
      Even to me who is interested in what has happened in SA
      Over the past 20 years.

      20

      • #
        DaleC

        Hi Bill,

        Thanks for taking the time to review. I agree the exercise is at risk of information overload – which is why I put the time series now first on the basis that these are the quickest and clearest way to show just the monthly change. The cyclic charts (HourOfDay, DayOfWeek etc) change almost imperceptibly by month, so perhaps separate out as three PDFs: time series, seasons and cycles. What would be your ideal organisation?

        10

    • #
      Robber

      Dale, I look at AEMO price and demand data on a daily basis using Tony’s excellent reports on demand mix.
      But what still confounds me is the enormous price variations.
      For example, Vic price for May 30 averaged $97/MWhr, June 6 average was $155/MWhr.
      Yet when I look at the total AEMO demand in GW across those two days min/max/avge: 19.5/30.0/25.6 and 20.1/29.5/25.2
      So then look at gas usage min/max as maybe high gas results in high prices: 1.8/5.5 for May 30, 1.3/5.7 on Jun 6.
      Or is it hydro variations: 1.0/4.0 and 0.9/5.5.
      Or wind: 1.5/2.9 and 0.4/2.0
      What is it that can cause such an enormous swing in the price that all generators receive?

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    TdeF

    A story on SBS about cults. We have take control of the language.

    What about the Climate Change Cult?

    A cult is a level beyond religion. There is no pretence of logic or science.
    It is blind faith and indoctrination and devotion to the high priests.

    One such high priest is in Australia today. Al Gore. A college footballer at best. No science. No mathematics. No logic. Cult leader.

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    pat

    9 Jun: Fox News: Douglas MacKinnon: Bloomberg to coal workers: You’re fired!
    (Douglas MacKinnon is a former White House and Pentagon official)
    This is not the first time Bloomberg has offered up hundreds of millions of dollars of his own fortune – estimated to be in the neighborhood of $50 billion – to hurt working-class Americans. The liberal and openly Trump-disliking former mayor also pledged $500 million to “defeat President Trump in 2020.”

    Bloomberg – who clearly understands a thing or two about the economy – wants to defeat a president who has created record employment in the minority community, created historic lows in unemployment, instituted desperately needed tax cuts and reform that brought the American economy roaring back to life, and positively affected the savings of tens of millions of Americans…

    With his plan to shut down every coal plant in the United States by 2030, Bloomberg’s open obsession with Trump drives the story. According to his own press release, the $500 million he will dedicate to the effort is in direct response to “the pro-fossil fuel agenda emanating from the White House.”
    That would be the same “pro-fossil fuel agenda,” which is not only pro-America, pro-American taxpayer, and pro-American energy independence, but also exposes the billions of dollars in fraud, waste, and abuse associated with various “green” energy programs.

    With regard to Bloomberg’s true motivations, the former mayor stressed: “We’re in a race against time with climate change, and yet there is virtually no hope of bold federal action on this issue for at least another two years.”
    Translation: The world’s climate is doomed unless I, my ego, and my unimaginable fortune can defeat Trump in 2020.
    Except, any American with common sense is not buying it…READ ON
    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/douglas-mackinnon-bloomberg-coal-jobs

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    pat

    6 Jun: ScienceDaily: Could climate change make Siberia more habitable?
    Source: IOP Publishing
    Summary: Large parts of Asian Russia could become habitable by the late 21st century due to climate change, new research has found. Scientists used current and predicted climate scenarios to examine the climate comfort of Asian Russia and work out the potential for human settlement throughout the 21st century…

    A study team from the Krasnoyarsk Federal Research Center, Russia, and the National Institute of Aerospace, USA, used current and predicted climate scenarios to examine the climate comfort of Asian Russia and work out the potential for human settlement throughout the 21st century.
    They published their results today in Environmental Research Letters.

    At 13 million square kilometres Asian Russia — east of the Urals towards the Pacific — accounts for 77 per cent of Russia’s land area. Its population, however, accounts for just 27 per cent of the country’s people and is concentrated along the forest-steppe in the south, with its comfortable climate and fertile soil.

    ***”Previous human migrations have been associated with climate change. As civilisations developed technology that enabled them to adapt, humans became less reliant on the environment, particularly in terms of climate,” said the study’s lead author Dr Elena Parfenova, from the Krasnoyarsk Federal Research Center…
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190606223509.htm

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    David Wojick

    Here is my latest:
    https://www.cfact.org/2019/06/07/flooding-ourselves-with-valuable-water/
    The beginning:

    Our National Environmental Policy is to let nature take its course and that is exactly what is happening with this catastrophic flooding. Blame Congress, not climate change. The dams that would stop this flooding were designed in the 1960’s but they were never built because of the 1970 National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA). It is that simple. We are flooding ourselves.

    The colossal irony is that a lot of this flooding is in drought prone places. So the water that is hurting us is actually very valuable, if we could store it, which is just what dams do. We are flooding ourselves with valuable water. How stupid is that?

    I am reading the news coverage of this terrible tragedy and there is not the slightest hint that it was preventable, which it most surely was. And I am not referring to getting people out of the way by prohibiting living where floods can occur, which is the absurd green solution. We know how to stop these floods, we are just not doing it.

    It is not a matter of building monster dams on major rivers. On the contrary it means building a lot of small to medium sized dams on the many tributaries the feed these big rivers. Catch and hold the water in small amounts over a large area, releasing it slowly, even usefully, as in irrigation and hydro power.

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      Bill in Oz

      Pity that you in teh USA have such a huge number of environmental idiots.

      I suggest that Trump needs to treat this as a major re-election issue.

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  • #

    Huh!

    I guess not many rooftop solar owners got any FIT for Saturday.

    The total generated power across the whole of Saturday was 9.6GWH, far and away the lowest for the year, and it’s not even Mid Winter yet. That total made up 1.7% of Australia’s total power generation from every source.

    That 9.6GWH equates to an average (in MW) across the ten and a half hours of generation (7AM till 5.30PM) of 910MW, or the full 24 hour average of 400MW.

    With a Nameplate of (around) 8500MW, that gives rooftop solar power a Capacity Factor of 4.7% for the day.

    Solar Plant power was no better, with an average of 220MW at a CF of 8.69%, and this source delivered 0.9% of all generated power.

    Add together wind power, solar plant power and rooftop solar power and it came in at just under 11% of all the generated power on this day, the day of lowest power consumption for the week so far, 12.2% lower than for the 26100MW per hour average earlier in the week.

    Coal fired power delivered a bit more than six times the total power of all those three renewables of choice, and coal fired power has nine of its 48 Units off line being serviced in the lead up to Winter, when they will be so sorely needed.

    Tell me again how wind, solar plants, and rooftop solar is the way of the future.

    Tony.

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      Richard Ilfeld

      It is the way of the future of rationed power, where the voucher you get permitting you to use power depends upon your support for the regime.

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      Bill in Oz

      Thanks Tony for keeping us all so well informed on the great fail of solar power.
      It does not & cannot keep the grid working.
      It’s a pity that coal, gas & hydro always come to it’s rescue, everyday, all day.

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      Just Thinkin'

      Tony,
      Saturday was a bad day for us on the “Rainshine” Coast, as our
      grand-kids call it. But not our worst.

      2.51kW for the day. Up yesterday to 11.51kW.

      And we NEVER got the panels to “save the planet”.
      We could see the way electricity prices were going to
      head. Sure glad we got them.

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      yarpos

      The average citizen would probably think this is the reason we need more ruinables. After all its always sunny or windy somewhere and you can just ship electricity anywhere because wires n stuff. Oh yeah and batteries, batteries fix everything.

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    Andrew McRae

    Chiming in at 1:25am to say I’ve just watched this video about the long term harm of reduced sleep quality and I really should be sleeping regularly instead of watching youtube right now.

    https://youtu.be/5MuIMqhT8DM

    If half of what this guy says is true, I’m screwed.

    Nighty night.

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      yarpos

      Showed her true colours in her election night tweet/rant (now deleted). He immense intelligence and superiority must be a massive cross to bear, no wonder she has been honored.

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    Another Ian

    Union of Concerned Scientists in action

    “Climate Alarmists Melting Down In Their Lies”

    https://realclimatescience.com/2019/06/climate-alarmists-melting-down-in-their-lies/

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      Bill in Oz

      I guess the folks who live in the Mid West
      And think it’s freezing there in June
      Are just victims of a collective illusion.
      Sarc off !

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  • #
    Another Ian

    Re government permissions and taxes (particularly fuel)

    “Someone posted a meme after she proposed her tax hike. It went like this “Gretchen Whitmer, Converting more people to Amish than any Amish bishop could dream of” It had a line of horse and buggies in the picture.”

    https://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/122182-now-leaving-illinois/?tab=comments#comment-1308808

    “You live in a tax farm as tree range humans”

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    Tdef

    Shorter is better. From now on the enemy of Western democratic society is the Climate Cult. It has every aspect of a cult. Scare. Irrational. OCA in America wants at least $10 Trillion dollars immediately. The world has already spent $10 Trillion. And achieved what?

    Money hungry Climate Cult.

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      TdeF

      Invoking the Fires of Hell and the end of the universe unless we buy Climate indulgences, give our cash to merchant bankers and buy useless spinning idols (or are they idles?) Sound familiar? All to prevent Armageddon, which is coming in 12 years according to OCA. Note, not 10 years as in the last three absolute predictions of the end of the world but 12 years. Obviously more science this time, better models, more exact calculations and therefore credible this time. What’s wrong with 11 years, 11 months and 11 days?

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    pat

    brilliant!

    9 Jun: UK Sun: TEN-HOUR WEEK Labour plans to combat climate change by cutting work to ten hours a week — and slashing pay
    Exclusive by Ryan Sabey
    BRITS could be clocking off after just ten hours a week – under plans being discussed by Labour.
    Incomes would be slashed by as much as 75 per cent in a radical move to combat climate change under the move.

    Unless current carbon emissions are cut there would have to be “an unprecedented decrease in the economic activity”, the policy dossier says.
    It says the sustainable work week would likely be “well below 10 hours per week”.
    The report titled The Ecological Limits of Work by the Autonomy group could seriously damage the economy and jobs, critics said last night.

    His boss, Mr Lewis, has also backed another controversial report from the same group on reducing the working week.
    Lewis has said that “working less may actually be the key to better distributed, sustainable, economic prosperity”…
    It comes as Downing Street say plans to create a net zero carbon economy by 2050 would cost no more than existing plans…
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9253266/labour-work-cuts-pay-climate-change/

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      TdeF

      Occasional Cortex has a far better plan. The zero hour week. Pay people a full wage not to work. When asked who would pay, her response was that the government could print more money. People wonder how Venezuela happened. Socialism and Russia, Cuba and China are all in there picking up the free oil while the people are starving.

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    pat

    more climate child abuse from skull & bones Yale (multiple questions in link):

    20 May: YaleClimateConnections Climate Advice: ‘Are carbon offsets a scam?’
    By Sara Peach
    Advice on carbon footprints, charitable donations, and answering mom’s questions about climate change
    Q: Dear Sara,
    My mom was asking me questions about global warming. She doesn’t get it, but I can see she wants to. I was having a hard time boiling it down. She also asked why Michigan winters have been colder than ever if the Earth is heating up (the ol’ climate vs. weather issue) and I found I wasn’t able to give her a succinct answer.
    Do you have suggestions to very basic articles about both I can send her? I feel like I’m having a breakthrough in rural Michigan and I don’t want to lose it.
    – Educate My Mom, Please

    SARA: Your mom wants to learn and sees you as a resource. That’s huge.
    Start by sending her NASA’s introduction to climate change (LINK). You might also look at “EARTH: The Operator’s Manual,” a PBS series hosted by climate scientist Richard Alley (LINK)…

    As for climate and weather, have her watch this video (LINK), which explains the difference in a little more than a minute. (There’s even a dog in it. All climate change videos should include dogs.)…

    And gently push back on your mom’s notion that winters in Michigan are “colder than ever.” In fact, Upper Midwest winters are among the fastest-warming in the country. See this New York Times article: “Where Are America’s Winters Warming the Most? In Cold Places.” (LINK)…

    Ask your mom why she believes (mistakenly) that Michigan winters are growing colder. My guess is that a few recent brutal cold snaps are influencing her perception. On days when Arctic air is blasting outdoor temperatures into frostbite territory, it can be hard to accept that the planet is heating up.
    If that’s the case, encourage her to watch this 18-minute TEDx talk that climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe…
    https://www.yaleclimateconnections.org/2019/05/are-carbon-offsets-a-scam/

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      yarpos

      notice how she asks for succint answers and is given a raft of glossy, superficial drama videos to watch (and a NYT artcle, whic amounts to the same thing)

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      joseph

      “As for climate and weather, have her watch this video (LINK), which explains the difference in a little more than a minute. (There’s even a dog in it. All climate change videos should include dogs.)”…

      Whew! That was close! For a moment I almost thought they were going to say this. . . . .

      “As for climate and weather, have her watch this video (LINK), which explains the difference in a little more than a minute. (There’s even a fact in it. All climate change videos should include facts.)”…

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    pat

    Pope only gets to the second paragraph before promoting “remewables”! read all:

    8 Jun: Vatican: ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS TO PARTICIPANTS IN THE INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE OF THE CENTESIMUS ANNUS PRO PONTIFICE FOUNDATION
    Sala Regia – Saturday, 8 June 2019
    Dear Friends,
    I am pleased to offer a warm welcome to all of you who are present for the 2019 International Conference of the Centesimus Annus pro Pontifice Foundation. I thank the organizers and those who have taken part in the discussions you have held on fostering an integral ecology…

    In the four years since the publication of the Encyclical (Laudato Si), there have certainly been signs of an increased awareness of the need to care for our common home. I am thinking of the adoption, by many nations, of the Sustainable Development Goals of the United Nations Organization; ***a growing investment in renewable and sustainable energy sources; new methods of energy efficiency; and a greater sensitivity, especially among young people, to ecological concerns…
    http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2019/june/documents/papa-francesco_20190608_fondazione-centesimusannus.html

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      Annie

      Pat, I feel tempted to write ‘pass the sick bag’!

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      Bill in Oz

      Silly old Frank should go home to Argentina.
      The Italians are sick of him.
      Ans so are most Catholics.
      Once home in BA’s he could sit around and not have to travel anymore

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    joseph

    “Man on a mission to destroy the US coal industry.

    From Yahoo: Michael Bloomberg, the former mayor of New York City, will donate $500m to a new campaign to close every coal-fired power plant in the United States and halt the growth of natural gas, his foundation said on Thursday.

    The new campaign, called Beyond Carbon, is designed to help eliminate coal by focusing on state and local governments. The effort will bypass Washington, where Mr. Bloomberg has said national action appears unlikely because of a divided Congress and a president who denies the established science of climate change”.

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      TdeF

      Isn’t that wonderful. The Science of Climate Change. So convincing, the use of the word Science. The Cult of Climate Scientology and a rich donor like Bloomberg. What does Tom Cruise think of Climate Scientology? Most of Hollywood believes and they are all scientists. And they also hate Donald Trump who is a Climate heretic, an unbeliever, a denier, a man who dares question The Science. It reads so much like the usual cult.

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      Ross

      I would love to know how much Bloomberg has invested in the renewables industry or industries related to them. Also what he has invested in the gas industry –which for competitive reasons is anti-coal.

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    pat

    children & XR rule the nation again! what a joke:

    4 Jun: Scotsman: Gas central heating systems in Edinburgh could be banned in 10 years
    by David Bol
    Gas central heating systems could be banned in Edinburgh in just ten years’ time if the Capital is to meet an ambition to become carbon neutral by 2030, politicians have warned…
    Carbon neutral means all carbon emissions are either stopped or offset. Council leader Cllr Adam McVey said it will take “an inordinate amount of effort and work” to succeed.
    He added: “We have set one of the most ambitious climate change targets of any city anywhere in the world…
    “I’m quite clear that the future of gas in this city as the primary way we heat our homes will have to change significantly if we are to meet this obligation.”

    No alternatives have been touted by council chiefs to potentially replace burning gas to heat homes – but Passivhaus, ground source heating and district heating could all be considered…

    14-year-old Esther Silverton, a Scottish youth climate striker, told councillors that “we need to act now and time is running out”. She added: “We’ve taken over 30 years to wake up to this climate crisis that we’ve created. Now we are acting like rabbits caught in the headlights.
    “We have to make drastic change now or we are all guilty of the biggest mass murder in history.”
    Natalie Taylor from Extinction Rebellion told councillors the world is “in dire need of a radical approach”…

    But Conservative Cllr Cameron Rose was called out by Ms Taylor after he claimed: “I’m one of the people along with many well-qualified scientists who have come to the conclusion that the apocalyptic, doomsday predictions are not currently born out by the science.”

    She responded, saying: “The IPCC report, supported by over 100 scientists(?) across the world, has suggested that we are in mortal danger…
    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/gas-central-heating-systems-in-edinburgh-could-be-banned-in-10-years-1-4941231

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      TdeF

      “this climate crisis that we’ve created” A tragic statement. A 14 year old in Edinburgh at 56North with average summer highs of 19C and 3C in winter taking full responsiblity for the Climate Crisis and prepared to freeze everyone to death to prevent warming. A young victim of the Climate Cult.

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        TdeF

        And “We’ve taken over 30 years to wake up”. That’s two lifetimes for this poor victim of self evident lies. The world was supposed to end in 1998, 2008, 2018. Cult victims are not logical. Now she’s 14 and going to save us from the heat by turning off the heating? And the press are encouraging this delusional Climate cult and praising its victims. Why?

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          TdeF

          I feel so sorry for he. Reading at 4 and in ten years all she has read is that she is not going to make 24. She has not lived through three such previous deadlines including one from Prince Charles.
          No wonder she is desperate and worried and what is the government doing to reassure her that it is all made up nonsense? Nothing. There is too much money at stake.

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          • #
            TdeF

            Her. I mean she is not old enough to know the seas have not risen. The planet has not warmed at all in 20 years. The Polar bears are fine and not a single disaster prediction has come true in 31 years of this. Her teachers tell her she has to do something. What else can she think?

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        Annie

        I went to the Edinburgh Tattoo donkeys’ years ago, late August and perishing cold. They must want to kill off the population there.

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        • #
          toorightmate

          I went in August 1998. Magnificent show.
          Shorts and T shirt weather that night.

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        • #
          Greg in NZ

          I was there 30 years ago to the month – watched the Tiananmen Square horror on the BBC News, 4 June 1989 – as a 27˚C ‘heat wave’ was dropping young ‘n’ old from the Highlands to the Lowlands and all points in between. Having travelled through Indonesia and Egypt on my way to Scotland (lovely 30s and 40s in the tropics and deserts) arriving to a chilly 27˚ Edinburgh, had to purchase a few layers to rug up for their summer. Sure enough, within 2 weeks it was freezing and snowing up in Aviemore and in Ullapool by-the-sea.

          A “Scottish youth climate striker”? Conjures up images of Groundskeeper Willie (crazy, wild-tongued Scotsman from The Simpsons) riding on his lawnmower chasing kids for skipping school…

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          yarpos

          To their credit the Society of Engineers in Scotland has warned the government they are on a course that will cost lives in coming winters.

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      James Murphy

      75 years ago, I could probably have found 100 geologists who thought plate tectonics was nothing more than a wild hypothesis or, at best, an entertaining but flawed concept to talk about over a beer. It’s a good thing there is progress – not the type of progress espoused by fools calling themselves progressives, but genuine progress.

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        TdeF

        Not so sure. From an early age I thought the map of the continents fitted neatly together as with Brazil and Africa and the geological connections were obvious. The idea Gondawandaland (great name) or Pangea were proposed at a conference in 1912 but the theory had been around for decades then. You can also see it in the plant and animal species. Darwin proposed the rising of volcanoes in the middle of the ocean and their slow subsidence, leaving coral atolls up to 3km thick and based on mountains which vanished. Early geologists saw sea shells on mountain tops and vertical strata clearly from the ocean bottom.

        Howevever I agree with your comment on ‘progressives’. The PAE, People Against Everything call themselves ‘Progressives’ when they are completely anti progress and want to go back to some fantasy world in the Dark Ages. Like the socialist Anti-FA, violent mobs dressed in black who attack conservatives and prevent free speech and say they are against Fascism. Black shirts. Brown Shirts. Fascists, communists and socialist. Different names for the same thugs. Progressives.

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          James Murphy

          Vine and Matthews published “Magnetic anomalies over oceanic ridges” in 1963. This is often cited as the validation, or even the start of of modern plate tectonics. Until then, there was indeed a lot of evidence to show that things moved around, but a lot of people had a lot of conflicting ideas to explain how said continents moved around. Geology textbooks (something I perversely like to collect) from the 1950s and earlier mention some hypothesies regarding how contents move, but they differ widely.

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    Another Ian

    Oh dear!

    “Study: 100% renewables doesn’t equal zero-carbon energy”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/06/09/study-100-renewables-doesnt-equal-zero-carbon-energy/

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      theRealUniverse

      Editing out the ‘climate speak’ from articles and replacing with truth.
      e.g.
      “While 160 companies around the world have committed to use “100 percent (un) renewable energy,” that does not mean “100 percent carbon (dioxide)-(non)free energy.” The difference will grow as power grids become less reliant on fossil (hydrocarbon) power, according to a new Stanford study published in Joule. Entities (crooks) committed to fighting climate change (the globull warming scam) can and should measure the environmental (non) benefits of their (un)renewable strategies accurately, the authors write.

      Current methods of estimating (non existent) greenhouse gas emissions use yearly averages, even though the carbon (dioxide) content of electricity on the grid can vary a lot over the course of a day in some locations. By 2025, the use of yearly averages in California could overstate the carbon (dioxide) reductions associated with solar power (lies) by more than 50 percent when compared to hourly averages, the paper shows. One finding of this analysis is that (useless) wind power – not solar – needs to be the next wave of investments (scams) for California. Similar analyses could suggest different options like nuclear power, geothermal energy, and long-range transmission in other locations.”

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    Travis T. Jones

    Its worse than we thought.

    2015: “10,000-Year-Old Antarctic Ice Shelf Will Disappear by 2020, NASA Says”

    Only 6 months to go.

    https://ktla.com/2015/05/17/10000-year-old-antarctic-ice-shelf-will-disappear-by-2020-nasa-says/

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    pat

    pity writers’ bios – includng this one – are almost always at the end of the piece. lengthy and all at this level of praise:

    9 Jun: Los Angeles Review of Books: Climate Change, the Problem from Hell
    By Franz Baumann
    (Franz Baumann is a senior fellow and a member of the board of trustees at the Hertie School of Governance in Berlin as well as a visiting professor at New York University. Prior to entering academia, he worked for the United Nations for over 30 years in many places and capacities. As an assistant secretary-general, his last assignment was special advisor on the Environment and Peace Operations)

    BILL MCKIBBEN, and this is meant as a compliment, is the Don Quixote of the environmental movement, or perhaps its Vivaldi. For over 30 years, he has been tilting at the windmills of ignorance, indifference, and interests — and composed the same concerto a few hundred times. Since his groundbreaking The End of Nature in 1989, he has written 16 more books and countless articles on humanity’s predatory and self-destructive relationship with nature. All are readable, measured, sensible, informative, factual, and incisive, yet short on polemics, hyperbole, and dubious assertions.

    Puzzled by the recklessness with which the planetary branch we are sitting on is being sawed off, McKibben in Falter once more explains nature’s workings, asks profound questions, and tells wonderful stories. Unable to do otherwise, McKibben goes after the same windmills yet again — and crafts another lyrical masterpiece…
    https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/climate-change-the-problem-from-hell/#!

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      pat

      same goes for this writer’s bio:

      10 Jun: Japan Today: Japan is not battle ready for climate change
      By Dennis McGinn
      (Dennis McGinn is a retired vice admiral of the U.S. Navy and a Senior Member of the Advisory Board, the Center for Climate and Security. He is a member of the Center for Climate and Security Advisory Board, and Senior Member of the Executive Committee Member at the International Military Council on Climate and Security)

      Japan, for example, is one of our closest allies in the region, and despite its thriving economy and society, it is uniquely exposed to the security risks of climate change. According to two recent studies I participated in, published by the Center for Climate and Security, Japan is ill-prepared for these risks, and is potentially increasing climate change-related security risks to itself and its interests…

      Unfortunately at the moment, current policies and investment decisions may exacerbate the climate change-driven security risks that plague the U.S. military and Japanese industries alike.
      For example, expenditures of public money from the likes of the Japan Bank of International Cooperation and Nippon Export and Investment Insurance to finance coal-fired power plants in Indonesia, Vietnam and Myanmar — engineered by Japanese companies — lock in years of carbon pollution that will contribute to the acceleration of climate-related security risks in the region. This is happening as many development banks and lending institutions globally are stepping back from financing coal — including three Singapore banks in the last few weeks…
      https://japantoday.com/category/features/opinions/opinion-japan-is-not-battle-ready-for-climate-change

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    pat

    being carried by all the Canadian MSM:

    9 Jun: CTV: ‘Can’t be any more clear’: Scientist says fires in Alberta linked to climate change
    by Colette Derworiz, The Canadian Press
    EDMONTON: In May 2016, a wildfire near Fort McMurray forced more than 80,000 people to flee the northern Alberta city, destroyed 2,400 buildings and burned nearly 6,000 square kilometres of forest.
    A year later, the fire season in British Columbia broke records as 2,117 blazes consumed more than 12,000 square kilometres of bush.
    Both have been connected to climate change in two separate research papers published earlier this year by scientists with Environment and Climate Change Canada…
    “We are seeing climate change in action,” says University of Alberta wildland fire Prof. Mike Flannigan…

    Alberta Premier Jason Kenney has repeatedly said the cause of the fires is complex.
    “I accept the science on anthropogenic climate change,” he said at a news conference last month. “But, in this particular instance, I can tell you we are on the five-year average for forest fires in Alberta.
    “The large one right now is happening in an area where there has not been a fire for 80 years and so, regardless of other factors, it was due eventually for a large wildfire.”
    Kenney’s comments aren’t wrong, but fire scientists say they don’t tell the whole story…
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/can-t-be-any-more-clear-scientist-says-fires-in-alberta-linked-to-climate-change-1.4458503

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    yarpos

    “…. it is uniquely exposed to the security risks of climate change” Uniquely? really? how?

    “…may exacerbate the climate change-driven security risks that plague the U.S. military and Japanese industries alike.” security risks? what risks?

    “the acceleration of climate-related security risks in the region” climate related, not driven this time? what risks?

    this writer is the master of vague generalised alarmism

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    Bill in Oz

    Some ‘scientists’ just don’t know what is actually happening around them.
    I’ve just been reading Cosmos. And it has this article from June 7th by someone named Eunice Lo.

    In the midst of the coldest Spring and start to USA & Canadian Summer in 90 odd years ( with all those extra deaths from the freezing weather ) she issues a warning that thousands will die in big cities from ‘warming’ if CO2 is not reduced…

    Ummmmm ? I suspect she spends her days in an air conditioned office looking only at computer screens.

    Definitely dopey !

    https://cosmosmagazine.com/climate/warming-will-cause-thousands-of-deaths-in-us-cities

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      Another Ian

      Bill

      Was there a co-author named “Behold”?

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        Bill in Oz

        No author named although Lo mentions her team.

        The curious thing is that cities are indeed hotter than the surrounding areas.

        Modern humans concentrate energy, both directly & indirectly, in our cities and towns

        It’s inevitable with so many vehicles, electricity dependent machinery, etc plus roads and buildings which absorb sunlight and radiate it back out as heat.
        But this is a localised effect
        It is NOT global Warming
        It is NOT climate change
        It is not affected by CO2 levels.

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    pat

    10 Jun: Thomson Reuters Foundation: U.N. talks host Chile ramps up climate ambition – but is it enough?
    by Matt Maynard; edited by Megan Rowling
    SANTIAGO – Chile’s new climate change plan, unveiled by President Sebastian Pinera this week, puts the host of this year’s U.N. climate conference on track to play its part in meeting globally agreed goals to limit warming of the planet, researchers said.
    But green-leaning politicians and activists in the South American nation called on the government to bring forward its deadlines for closing coal-fired power plants…

    On Tuesday, Pinera unveiled a climate action plan that would shut all coal power plants by 2040, and target carbon neutrality by 2050, meaning the country would emit no more heat-trapping carbon dioxide emissions than it can absorb in its forests…
    By 2050, all economic sectors – including agriculture, waste and industrial processes – should become carbon-neutral, the plan said…
    In December, 20,000 to 30,000 delegates, including world leaders, are expected in Santiago for the annual U.N. climate talks, where governments will be urged to ramp up pledges to reduce emissions under the Paris climate change accord…

    In late May, opposition leader Catalina Perez proposed a “climate emergency” declaration to the organizing committee for the “COP25” U.N. climate change conference.
    “It went badly,” she said afterwards, with fellow members unable to reach consensus…

    On Wednesday’s World Environment Day, Perez’s Democratic Revolution Party joined 52 civil society groups in a letter urging Pinera to deepen commitments to tackling climate change.
    Signatories included ***Extinction Rebellion Chile, Greenpeace Chile and the international youth movement of ***children skipping school to protest about climate inaction, “Fridays for Future”…
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-chile-politics-analysi/un-talks-host-chile-ramps-up-climate-ambition-but-is-it-enough-idUSKCN1TA0KY

    ***global pests!
    the CAGW mob could not muster large, grassroots protests, so they opted for the XR/child combo to suggest there is public demand for so-called “climate action” and the FakeNewsMSM is on board, of course.

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    el gordo

    One of the world’s largest oil exporters can enjoy the luxury of virtue signalling, at a price.

    https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2019/06/09/electric-vehicle-push-in-norway-could-add-1-3-billion-to-power-bills-by-2040-study/#more-43005

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    pat

    Forbes Mag is with the program:

    9 Jun: Forbes: Climate Emergency: Fund Managers, Fossil Fuel Companies, And Getting To Zero Emissions by 2050
    JP Dallmann
    (I am a co-founder of realchangers, a platform matching mission-driven talent to impact-driven companies solving the most pressing global challenges. In 2017, I started Impact Founders, a community of impact-driven entrepreneurs using profit for purpose and tech as a force for good. I draw on my experience in Investment Banking and entrepreneurship to develop best practices, including the creation of BluePrint Model, to enable performance improvement for companies and executives to deliver on their visions…I do this as an author, speaker, lecturer and through the companies and organizations I run, advise, consult and support)

    PIC: LONDON, UNITED KINGDOM – 2019/05/24: Students seen holding placards during the protest. Youth Strike for Climate Change Protest, calling on politicians and business leaders to protect the environment from greenhouse gas emissions and to address the impact it has on the environment

    Society is awakening to the facts of a climate emergency and the need for urgent climate action. Are individuals’ demands, governmental requests, and major funds and companies aligned?.
    We saw the Extinction Rebellion protests in London followed immediately by the UK Parliament declaring a National Climate Emergency . Almost a t the same time, the CEO of the UK Sustainable Investment and Finance Association was on the news sharing the findings on their most recent survey of fund managers’ responses to climate-related risks facing fossil fuel companies.
    There is increasing awareness that drastic action needs to happen…

    What can you do about it?…
    If you are an individual, please become a responsible consumer first, and then continue to engage with your ***Pension Funds and Independent Financial Advisors to understand if they are investing your hard earned money in the companies that are not taking action on the major issue that is climate change. You can also try to learn about the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals – The Global Goals – to understand which financial services providers and companies are doing something about it…
    We need awareness, community, action! We need to align, invest, track, adjust, repeat! We need to do something!
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jpdallmann/2019/06/09/climate-emergency-fund-managers-fossil-fuel-companies-and-getting-to-zero-emissions-by-2050/#19c5b61b3db4

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    pat

    this is sooooo BBC:

    9 Jun: BBC: Student faces no action over rude Donald Trump protest
    Ollie Nancarrow, 18, cut an image of a giant penis, as well a polar bear and a climate change message, on his family’s land close to Stansted Airport, Essex.
    President Trump arrived at the airport last week for a state visit to the UK.
    Essex Police had said Mr Nancarrow may have breached public decency laws but he will now not face any action…

    Mr Trump has previously accused climate change experts of having a “political agenda”.

    A human rights expert said the protest could have been defended under the right to free speech.
    Dr Andrew Fagan, deputy director of the University of Essex’s human rights centre, said while using the image of a penis could be seen as offensive in many cases, when it came to Mr Trump the issue was not so clear cut..
    He said: “I imagine if it was a visit from the Pope there would be an outcry but with Trump he made the size of his penis a political issue when he talked about it in the Republican primary.
    “I don’t know if Ollie was thinking about that when he made his protest.
    “I can’t think of a time when this sort of image was used in political discourse but I think it is part of this post-Trump world we now live in.”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-48555951

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      TdeF

      The pre Trump world was far more worrying. As for those who think a penis is offensive, what happened to men’s rights? It must have been huge and dominating to be seen from the air. Donald would take that as a compliment. Call in the detectives. Dick Tracey?

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    Travis T. Jones

    The Australian Government ‘scientists’ explain the green house effect in 6 steps …

    Greenhouse effect

    Step 1: Solar radiation reaches the Earth’s atmosphere – some of this is reflected back into space.

    Step 2: The rest of the sun’s energy is absorbed by the land and the oceans, heating the Earth.

    Step 3: Heat radiates from Earth towards space.

    Step 4: Some of this heat is trapped by greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, keeping the Earth warm enough to sustain life.

    Step 5: Human activities such as burning fossil fuels, agriculture and land clearing are increasing the amount of greenhouse gases released into the atmosphere.

    Step 6: This is trapping extra heat, and causing the Earth’s temperature to rise.

    https://www.environment.gov.au/climate-change/climate-science-data/climate-science/greenhouse-effect

    Whoa! Wait. What?

    Step 7 : Greenhouse collapses under weight of snow

    http://www.tristatehomepage.com/news/local-news/greenhouse-collapses-under-weight-of-snow/924689017

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      TdeF

      I would suggest that as 3/4 of the planet is covered by water and it has 400x the mass of the air, most of the heat is trapped by water and back radiation trapped by water vapour, invisible, in huge quantities as a gas and very visible in the form of clouds where it blocks the sun.

      Ascribing as critical the contribution of the tiny contribution of CO2 at 0.04% and even a third of that at 0.015% would have to be proven. It has never been proven as significant let alone critical and it may seem obvious, but it is also invisible. And it has not been shown that aerial CO2 levels are controllable as the total amount of CO2 in the water/air system is 150x as much as man has produced.

      As for second order effects like rapid sea rise, you have to say that since 1988, it hasn’t happened. There is no evidence of any part of the Armageddon scenarios after 31 years since the Global Warming cult was announced by Al Gore and James Hansen on 22nd June 1988.

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    pat

    10 Jun: Inquirer: As Philippines economy grows, coal remains king, says think tank
    By Ronnel W. Domingo
    The share of coal-fired generators in the Philippines’ electricity mix is expected to increase over the next 30 years while that of renewable energy sources could decrease even if uptake continues to rise, according to a report from the Asia Pacific Energy Research Center (Aperc).
    Aperc is part of the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (Apec), a forum of 21 governments in the regions, including the Philippines…
    In the latest Apec Energy Demand and Supply Outlook report released on Friday, Aperc said coal would make up 39 percent of the Philippines’ electricity sources by 2050, climbing from 36 percent currently…
    “Large increases in fossil fuel generation, particularly coal which triples, overshadow a more than doubling of renewable generation in the BAU,” the report said…
    “Promoting renewables and diversifying trade will be important for maintaining energy security,” Aperc said…

    APEC/APERC: APEC Energy Demand and Supply Outlook
    DOWNLOADS: APEC Energy Demand and Supply Outlook 7th Edition (2019)
    https://aperc.ieej.or.jp/publications/reports/outlook.php

    (from Summary)
    APEC ENERGY DEMAND AND SUPPLY OUTLOOK, 7TH EDITION
    FINAL ENERGY DEMAND CONTINUES TO GROW
    In the Business-as-Usual (BAU) Scenario, which reflects existing policies and extends current trends, aggregate APEC demand rises by 21% between 2016 and 2050. Population growth in south-east Asia and economic growth in China are key contributors to this increase…
    FOSSIL FUELS REMAIN THE FOUNDATION OF APEC ENERGY SYSTEMS THROUGH 2050
    Representing at least half of final energy demand, fossil fuels continue to meet most of the energy demand across the Outlook. However, natural gas increasingly replaces coal, particularly in industry, as growing production and trade increase the price competitiveness of this lower-carbon alternative.
    Oil use continues to grow steadily in the BAU — mainly in transport where fossil fuels are difficult to replace…

    from Outlook Vol I:
    In South-east Asia 159 GW of new coal…
    KEY FINDINGS
    Coal fuelled much of the recent economic growth in APEC, but its use has declined since 2014. South-east Asian economies, however, continue to expand use of coal for power generation; additional ambition is needed to develop more sustainable energy systems…

    “coal” has 308 mentions in “Outlook Vol I”; 873 mentions in “Outlook Vol II” – (2 Vols – almost 700 pages)

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      Bill in Oz

      Pat, the Filipinos was cheap, reliable electricity.
      That comes from coal & gas with a tiny amount of hydro.
      With a population which is still 70% in dire poverty, Filipinos cannot afford the luxury of solar or windy power.

      Would that the bloody ricj Greenists would recognise that the poor in Australia also need cheap reliable electricity to stay warm this Winter, rather than their their precious, blessed, expensive & erratic windy & sunny stuff.

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    BoyfromTottenham

    OriginalS – the tech startup company that I co-founded makes IoT devices for monitoring industrial machinery. To get ACMA approval to sell it in Australia, it had to pass the same RF radiation safety tests as any device that is not hand-held, is not a consumer device (i.e. is only used in an industrial environment) and is intalled at least 20 cm from humans. The transmitter radiates at most 100 mW, in short bursts, about every 10 minutes. For our devices, this translates to, when 20 cm away from the skin, it produces radiation of less than 5 milliwatts/cm2, averaged over 6 minutes, which we easily met. Yes, there will be a lot more IoT devices out there in the future, but I certainly don’t stay awake at night worrying about them affecting my health, and if I did I would simply not have them in my home.
    BTW, back in the dim, dark past I was trained to maintain very large HF and radar transmitters, and fully appreciate the human health issues that radio transmitters present. In my day the radar equipment at Sydney Airport had an effective radiated power of 2 megawatts to achieve a range of 100 miles, and believe me we were well aware of what that amount of RF power could do up close. In fact the system had a safety device which shut down the transmitter if the antenna wasn’t rotating (which would have continuously radiated all that power onto a small area). However, I worked next to that transmitter for 2 years, with no apparent ill effects 50 years later.
    And Hanrahan has it right – the huge rate of attentuation of all radio signals with distance means that nobody can afford to design an antenna that squirts energy where it isn’t going to be effective.

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      yarpos

      Dont get the whole IoT meme. We have been able to IP address anything we want for decades, we have had reasonable speed communications and wireless for decades. I am sensing a solution looking for a problem as we have been able to connect anything for a long long time and in many cases havent, primarily because it adds no value. IoT seems to range from branding what we already do through to marketing BS. But thats just me, sometimes I dont “get it”

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      theRealUniverse

      BoyfromTottenham,
      This is typical. The EU, and other govts, enforces absolutely stupid regs about some things. Everything sold MUST PASS CE, FCC, UL, etc etc and theres more , Ive been involved in EMC testing. All radiation tests regardless of how stupid the measurements are. The most stupid is RF radiation from a unit that is used..UNDERWATER! Well in this universe RF doesnt propagate underwater.
      Compliance is a game, Ive been in it, I know how the test labs operate, get the cert and move on. Usually theres some giggler y poky required. ;)

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      Hanrahan

      It’s nice for a tecchy to get a tic from a pro. :)

      I too worked on high powered HF transmitters. You could get a buzz brushing against a nail in a post. Sired three ankle bitters after that. Had already done that by the time I worked on high powered radar – APS 20, the set they had in Constillations forming part of the Dew line. Theoretical 300 mile range.

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    mem

    Claims Of Insect Collapse Rubbished By New Study
    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/06/09/claims-of-insect-collapse-rubbished-by-new-study/#more-39852
    More unsound science that has been waved through and published by the media to frighten the public. Seems the whole original paper should have been junked.

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    pat

    9 Jun: HinduBusinessLine: PTI: Coal India to hire merchant bankers for acquiring stakes in Australian coal assets
    State-owned Coal India will hire merchant bankers to carry out financial due diligence for acquiring equity stakes in identified mines and companies in Australia as part of its plan to meet the growing dry fuel demand in the country…
    Coal India looks to acquire assets abroad as it expects that domestic production would not be sufficient to meet coking coal and high-grade fuel demand from various sectors. The demand-supply gap in India is high due to enhanced requirements from various sectors, including power and steel.

    To meet the projected gap between demand and supply, while the efforts are on to enhance coal production from the indigenous sources, it will not be possible to bridge the entire gap of demand of coking coal and high-grade low ash thermal coal…
    India’s coal import increased by 8.8 per cent to 233.56 million tonnes in 2018-19, according to a report…
    Coal India is targeting more than 8 per cent growth in production at 660 million tonnes in 2019-20.
    https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/coal-india-to-hire-merchant-bankers-for-acquiring-stakes-in-australian-coal-assets/article27703400.ece

    10 Jun: Reuters: UPDATE 1-China’s May coal imports climb 8.6% from month before – customs
    by Meng Meng and Dominique Patton
    China’s May coal imports rose 8.6% from the month before to 27.47 million tonnes, customs data showed on Monday, the highest level since January as power utilities boosted purchases ahead of summer…
    Imports for the first five months of 2019 came to 127 million tonnes, up 5.6% on the prior year…
    https://www.reuters.com/article/china-economy-trade-coal/update-1-chinas-may-coal-imports-climb-86-from-month-before-customs-idUSL4N23H0O2

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    Travis T. Jones

    How many cattle must Australia eradicate before Australia prevents greenhouse gas emissions rising?

    11 February, 2019: Up to 500,000 drought-stressed cattle killed in (unpredicted) Queensland floods

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/11/up-to-500000-drought-stressed-cattle-killed-in-queensland-floods

    6 June, 2019: Australia’s greenhouse gas emissions rise again, according to delayed Federal Government data

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-06/australian-emissions-rise-again-delayed-government-data-shows/11184906

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    It’s really not the end of the world as we know it
    Daily Telegraph – 1 hour ago
    Let’s face it: China has plans to build hundreds of coal-fired power plants over the next decade, both at home and abroad. It’s currently building six in Vietnam…

    Political elites face the wrath Maurice Newman
    The Australian – 13 hours ago
    As Labor leaders put the champagne cork back into the bottle and blame Clive Palmer, Rupert Murdoch and other powerful interests for their shock election loss, Scott Morrison’s challenge is to understand the reasons why the Coalition won and to consolidate a widely …
    His deputy, Richard Marles, admits he made a wrong call to refer to a potential collapse of global coal markets as “a good thing”, but he is yet to back Adani’s proposed Carmichael mine…

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      yarpos

      Myopic Marles doesnt seen to have much of a world view, or at least not one tinged with reality.

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        Hanrahan

        As discussed here regularly he prolly has no idea about the facts. May not even know what percentage of the atmosphere is CO2.

        Has anyone calculated the total mass of the atmosphere in tons? Maybe we should know so we could put “a ton of CO2″ into perspective.

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    pat

    all the wrong conclusions, but a few rare admissions:

    10 Jun: EcoBusiness: Beyond renewables: How to reduce energy-related emissions by measuring what matters
    By John Woolard
    (John Woolard is a senior operating partner at Activate Capital and Senior Research Fellow at World Resources Institute WRI)
    In the 27 years since the 1992 Rio Climate Summit, the use of renewable energy has increased dramatically and the efficiency of energy use and production has soared. Yet global carbon emissions continued to rise. What happened? Why has no progress been made in reducing carbon emissions despite huge improvements in efficiency and rapid growth in the use of renewable energy?…

    What’s going on?
    How can carbon emissions be increasing if the use of renewables has soared?…
    Renewables are important, but all of the wind and solar additions over the last decades amount to just 3.6 per cent of worldwide energy production (BP 2017). Investment of more than $1.4 trillion has not offset the growth in worldwide energy from fossil fuels…
    Indeed, nuclear and hydropower produce three times the zero-carbon power of renewables…

    The energy produced by wind and solar is intermittent. Without back-up from other sources, wind and solar cannot provide the 24/7 reliable power that people expect, and modern economies require. As a result, other generation sources, energy storage and demand response capabilities are needed to provide the power at times when wind and solar are not available. Policy makers, regulators, utility companies, corporate energy buyers and climate activists must be aware of this…

    The German grid relies heavily on the cheapest and dirtiest plants to balance its renewable energy sources—plants powered by lignite coal. As a result, Germany has seen rising carbon intensity alongside rising renewable penetration, forcing it to lower its 2020 climate goals, which it is no longer able to meet. Electricity production in Germany from coal has not changed meaningfully, falling from 262 terawatt hours (TWh) in 2010 to 240 TWh in 2017. The total energy from additional renewables (113 TWh) since 2010 will not offset the loss of zero-carbon energy production from the retirement of Germany’s nuclear plants (140 TWh). Germany is now a country with high renewables, high carbon emissions, and high energy rates. The rest of the world should study its experience closely…
    https://www.eco-business.com/opinion/beyond-renewables-how-to-reduce-energy-related-emissions-by-measuring-what-matters/

    behind paywall:

    Eastern Germany on the brink of demographic collapse
    Financial Times – 17 hours ago
    One reason is the planned phase-out of coal mining and coal-fired power plants, which will deal a heavy blow to eastern regions that are among Germany’s …

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    Zane

    Whilst China is building or planning to build hundreds of new coal fired power stations, few let alone any Greenies realise that this is a net positive for the environment, as they will mostly replace older inefficient and highly polluting plants, as well as those dirty cylindrical briquettes made from coal dust that many Chinese households still burn for heating in winter.

    It’s to be applauded. And it makes economic sense. It’s the cheapest way to produce reliable baseload power. And that is essential for development and improving living standards.

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    TdeF

    ““The announcement from AGL that a Loy Yang coal generation unit will be out until December highlights why our transition to cleaner, more reliable renewable energy is so important,” a government spokesman said.”

    This formulaic cult response is idiotic nonsense. The mantra of the ignorant. The chant of the cult.

    More reliable? The reliable part of solar is that there are only 9 hours of daylight, so there is no output ever when the sun goes down. As for wind, it is never there when you want it and always there when you don’t.

    Cleaner? How much cleaner can you be than only CO2 and H2O? That’s what every living thing in the world outputs, or is life now dirty and kangaroos, cattle, microbes and plants, birds and people the problem?

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    Another Ian

    To liven up your afternoon

    “Pennsylvania Man thinks roundabouts are causing tornadoes…”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/06/09/pennsylvania-man-thinks-roundabouts-are-causing-tornadoes/

    And the first comment

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      Hanrahan

      Some mothers do av em.

      Claim
      During a House committee meeting, Rep. Hank Johnson said he feared that stationing 8,000 Marines on Guam would cause the island to “become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize.”

      Rating

      True
      About this rating
      ……………………

      I’ve seen the video, he is a US congressman.

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    Kinky Keith

    I like FijiDave”s new term mentioned above;

    “Climate Monomaniac” or CM

    It is full of potential.

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    Graeme No.3

    Here you are Mod

    British Royal Navy is proud to announce its new fleet of Type 45 destroyers:

     
    Having initially named the first two ships HMS Daring and HMS Dauntless,
    the Naming Committee has, after intensive pressure from the European Union in Brussels,
    renamed them HMS Cautious and HMS Prudence.

     
    The next five ships are to be HMS Empathy, HMS Circumspect, HMS Nervous, HMS Timorous and HMS Apologist.
    Costing £850 million each, they comply with the very latest employment, equality, health & safety and human rights laws.
    The Royal Navy fully expects any future enemy to be jolly decent and to comply with the same high standards of behaviour.

     The new user-friendly crow’s nest has excellent wheelchair access. Live ammunition has been replaced with paintballs to reduce the risk of anyone getting hurt and to cut down on the number of compensation claims.

    Stress counsellors and lawyers will be on board, as will a full sympathetic industrial tribunal.

    The crew will be 50/50 men and women, and will contain the correct balance of race, gender, sexuality and disability.  Sailors will only work a maximum of 37 hours per week as per Brussels Rules on Working Hours, even in wartime. 
    All the vessels are equipped with a maternity ward, a creche and a gay disco.
    Tobacco will be banned throughout the ship, but recreational cannabis will be allowed in wardrooms and messes.
    The RN eager to shed its traditional reputation for “Rum, sodomy & the lash” so the rum ration has gone, replaced by sparkling water. Sodomy remains, now extended to include all ratings under 18. The lash will still be available on request.

    Saluting of officers is now considered elitist and has been replaced by “Hello Sailor”. 
    All information on notice boards will be in 37 different languages and Braille.
    Crew members will now no longer have to ask permission to grow beards and/or moustaches. 
    This applies equally to female crew.
    The MoD is inviting suggestions for a “non-specific” flag because the White Ensign may offend minorities. 
    The Union Jack must never be seen.
    The newly re-named HMS Cautious will be commissioned shortly by Captain Hook from the Finsbury Park Mosque who will break a petrol bomb over the hull.
    She will gently slide into the sea as the Royal Marines Band plays the Village People’s ”In the Navy”.
    Her first deployment will be to escort boatloads of illegal immigrants to ports on England’s south coast.
    The New Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn said, 
    “Our ships reflect the very latest in modern thinking and they will always be able to comply with any new legislation from Brussels”.

    His final words were – “Britannia waives the rules.”
     

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