JoNova

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The new $30 Trillion dollar climate wishlist of the same old ideas

There’s a new Christmas fantasy list for Climate-worriers. It’s a New York Times bestselling book (aren’t they all) and people are gushing …because it lists the same old solutions we’ve heard 100 times before, like using wind, solar, go vegetarian, walk to work, and (wait) educate your girls.

The PR material glows like the Sun. Wear your sunglasses and hazmat suit when reading:

Project Drawdown is the most comprehensive plan ever proposed to reverse global warming.We did not make or devise the plan—the plan exists and is being implemented worldwide. It has been difficult to envision this possibility because the focus is overwhelmingly on the impacts of climate change. We gathered a qualified and diverse group of researchers from around the world to identify, research, and model the 100 most substantive, existing solutions to address climate change. What was uncovered is a path forward that can roll back global greenhouse gas emissions within thirty years. The research revealed that humanity has the means and techniques at hand. Nothing new needs to be invented…

Project Drawdown’s ranked list of 100 climate change solutions has priced the whole planet-fixing kit at a cool $29,609 billion dollars (of other people’s money). Apparently this is cheap as it will save $74 trillion (trust me), and thousands of entreupeneurs have been sitting on their money waiting for a list like this.

All 100 are ranked through a kind of divination of a “Plausible Scenario” in a computer model. That calculates that wind turbines are ranked at 2, while nuclear energy is way down at number 20. Educating girls ranks 6th and family planning at number 7. Number one on the list is refrigerant management (and I’ll just say China, and a $2b HFC fraud).  These people are not good with numbers. Who would trust them with a computer?

#6 Educating Girls (will stop storms):

The cause and effect chain is so long here you will need your 800 ft Sidewinder Cave and Wreck Reel to find your way back to the surface.

Educated girls produce fewer human babies which means less humans in 20 years which will make less CO2, which will trap less heat and reduce the size of the tropical hot-spot that doesn’t exist, and that will cause less rain and more rain in all the right places, so we get fewer floods and droughts and bad weather or something like that.

Another great benefit they tell us is that educated girls are “less likely to marry as children or against their will. ” Ponder all those poor unschooled girls who accidentally marry against their own will. Oops, damn, I got married today and I didn’t want to?   How is educating girls supposed to make that less likely? Dear Warlord, I learnt my times tables, don’t marry me off?

Yes, sure, we all want girls (and boys) to get an education. We know the world is a better place when they learn to read and write (but not necessarily when they learn to turn atmospheric physics into a social justice campaign).

#63 Transport Teleprescence (is bound to save pigmy squirrels):

This idea implores people to do what conservative writers have been saying for decades and stop flying around the globe for meetings when they could use Skype instead. Telepresencing hasn’t caught on even with the IPCC — an organisation that is more panicked about global warming than any other. If the experts that live off the fear of climate change will not even telepresent their Olympic Annual COP Junket, what hope is there than any other less concerned institute will?

Somehow there are only 80 solutions on the list, not 100. Like everything in climate change, it’s exaggerated and nobody cares about the numbers.

Comment from MapTrap

The list goes from 1 to 80 in order of CO2 saved. Typical of people whose concern is about CO2 saving, with no consideration of money.

If you do what I did and drop the table into a spreadsheet, you can manipulate the data in terms of Saving/Cost per GT of CO2 saved. On that list Fridge Management goes from #1 to #62. Fridge Management is a no cost to implement, and negative $902 billion in savings, for a net loss of $10.06 billion per GT CO2 saved.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.7/10 (68 votes cast)
The new $30 Trillion dollar climate wishlist of the same old ideas, 9.7 out of 10 based on 68 ratings

105 comments to The new $30 Trillion dollar climate wishlist of the same old ideas

  • #

    Did the book also mention learn to code? Oh, wait, even that may not be a job in the new age of ruinables.

    120

    • #

      Who would trust them with a computer?

      Who would trust them with anything? Unfortunately, all too many.

      120

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      …new age of ruinables.

      I wish I’d said that. It nails down everything where it belongs. And it started me thinking. Maybe the problem is the girls or more specifically the women. Maybe we should have elected Hillary and avoided all the madness over Donald John trump who would be but another also ran at this point. And we could be sailing along blissfully leaving the affairs of the world to a woman. I’m sure Hillary would implement all the necessary measures to fix climate change within her first week in office.

      Funny though how numerous women swear that Trump treats men and women equally.

      We already educate the girls along with the boys and I know women can rise up through an organization to top positions because I have two nieces who are both civil engineers like their father and doing very well at it. So what’s this new demand all about? My bet is that it’s all about dishonesty. Specifically, let’s teach the girls how to use climate change as a weapon with which to overthrow a government they don’t like and gain the power to run things their way.

      As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, it’s always about power. Amen.

      I may catch hell for this, I don’t know. And I don’t care either. These days the praise of men comes at too high a price.

      60

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I don’t think there’s a supportable reason for anyone to pay a woman less who is doing the same job a man is doing. They should be in the same pay grade and evaluated fairly on the basis of performance, not gender.

        I had to come back and say that because it’s what I think and I don’t want to be misunderstood. But the issue isn’t a simple one solvable by saying, educate the girls any more than it’s solvable by any other finger pointing or simple fix. Human affairs are complicated.

        60

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          And if I’m to be completely honest, I don’t think there’s a single supportable reason to even discuss much less be worried about greenhouse gasses or climate change.

          Their glass is not just part full it’s empty.

          60

        • #
          MudCrab

          Gender in the workforce?

          I sometimes wonder if it is an industry thing.

          A few years ago I was talking late one night in a bar with some people and the topic of extreme sexism within the medical profession came up. Coming from an engineering background I commented that I didn’t see that as much and nearly all the female engineers I worked with tended to be really good at their jobs. Conversation went a bit sideways (remember this is about 3am by this stage and alcohol) and the counter claim was put to me that my female work mates were being forced to dress down by the oppressive culture of the male dominated engineering environment.

          I said, No, we wear what we like. Our dress code is actually very flexible.

          No! She is being forced to comply!

          Actually I have run into her a few times outside of work. Trust me, she is wearing what she wants to wear.

          Still, apparently I was wrong. Engineering was sexist. I needed to bow down in shame at my cis male nature, despite the fact that not only do most of the women I work with enjoy their jobs, but some even actively confess that being a female engineer is significantly easier because nearly all male co-workers are paranoid about offending. Far from feeling oppressed by ‘The Male’ they embrace the advantages.

          If you are professional you embrace being surrounded by other professionals. Can’t speak for other fields, but my experience within engineering has always been if you are good at your job no one judges you on anything else. It is the crud performers that got talked about behind their backs, not the females.

          40

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            MudCrab,

            Judging from my career I would have to say you’re right. I worked right along side of both men and women, I reported to both men and women at various times. Some of the men were not good at what they said they were good at and some of the women were very good at what they said they were good at. And nowhere did I hear anything about this sexism or male privilege or any other garbage until the professional victim hood counselors came along and started trying to teach what clearly was not so.

            Now, was there some discrimination going on? I’d have to guess that there probably was. That’s human nature and it isn’t going to change no matter what the foolish try to do. The wise hopefully will keep their hands off of it as much as they can, only stepping in when the need is critical enough to justify it. And that’s about the best we humans are ever going to do.

            Ironically, on one job I got in trouble because I was much better at C++ than even the project architect. The complaint was that no one could understand the code I turned in. In a twist of even greater irony they had all been working with C++ classes that worked by doing the same thing mine did. I had stolen the basic method from Microsoft and just bent it to do what I was asked to do. So I guess you can be too competent as well as incompetent. And I suppose that can cross the gender boundary. I was a contractor so they could let me go and go back to being happy with the status quo. That’s the only hint of anything like what we’re talking about that ever happened to me.

            20

    • #
      ATheoK

      The words of a confirmed optimist!

      Only a confirmed optimist believes people who are unable to operate computers should program computers.

      That’s right up there with people’s expectations that since they listen to music that automatically makes them expert critics of music.
      (True story, I had a sales clerk coworker who held court pontificating about alleged musical errors in complex music. When I asked him if he was a music major, he blew a raspberry and said he only played radios and turntables.)

      “Who would trust them with anything? Unfortunately, all too many”

      The excellent words of a confirmed realist!

      30

  • #
    PeterS

    All that plan would achieve in reality is the complete and utter destruction of Western civilisation while the rest of the world continues on using mostly coal, oil, gas and nuclear energy. So anyone who supports such a plan is in effect a terrorist against the West, and ought to be treated as such. Simples.

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  • #
    David Wojick

    Hey it is a lot cheaper than the Green New Deal socialist wishlist:
    https://www.cfact.org/2019/02/12/the-green-new-dealers-want-100-trillion-dollars/
    and this is just for the USA.

    I am beginning to think here is a 2020 madness coming on. Is there a numerologist in the House?

    160

  • #
    joseph

    And just because it hasn’t been getting warmer doesn’t mean it’s not warming . . . . .

    191

  • #
    Another Ian

    In the spirit of that not so well known book of advice

    “How to do it and not get it”

    Written by

    “One who did it, got it and can’t get rid of it”

    110

  • #
    AndyG55

    Fortunately, none of these “brain f**ts” will have any affect on actually reducing atmospheric CO2.

    For the sake of future generations, the level of atmospheric CO2 should be allowed to increase.

    Not that anyone can do anything to stop that increase.

    The world population continues to increase, so must the food supply, hence more atmospheric CO2 needed.

    And if the myths about CO2 causing warming were true, it may just forestall the next major ice age,

    Unfortunately, they are not.

    At some stage, that ice age will come, it is that change that the world needs to get ready for.

    201

    • #
      Serp

      Exactly AndyG55, they’re always maintaining that carbon dioxide causes warming but nobody shows us how; in fact I’d say people frequenting these threads have a pretty good understanding of a method to reduce atmospheric carbon dioxide, a daft idea, and that it’s all about cooling the oceans and watching Henry’s Law in operation. When the solar system next passes through a spiral arm of the Milky Way galaxy the increase in cosmic rays will be more than adequate. Much as I loathe linking to New Scientist it does have a factual treatment of the subject with a good graphic towards the end.

      00

  • #
    Zigmaster

    I assume that the book hasn’t been translated into Chinese or Hindi because climate action is only relevant for everyone else. Pity that half the worlds population live there.

    140

    • #
      AndyG55

      “Climate action (Trademark)” isn’t relevant to anything except political agendas.

      121

    • #
      Yonniestone

      I think your’re being a bit harsh there, from the books forward,

      On top of all the grants we applied for a LOT of crayons and Tide Pods were eaten during the publication of this book.

      60

      • #
        sophocles

        Foreword” puh-leeze! — the word(s) at the fore or the front.

        Yes, I agree, we read a book “forwards” not “backwards” but to call a Foreword a Forward is Backward!

        20

  • #
    reformed warmist of logan

    Good morning Jo,
    How do you do it?
    So much GOLD, so little time?
    I guess being a “Sandgroper” helps in that dept.! (L.O.L.!)
    Their list of 100 – that only has 80, is truly gob-smacking!
    (Moving on…) I just love the way the Dutch are leading the way on anti-climate-change parties becoming suddenly popular! A lovely reminder of the times three and four centuries ago when Dutch explorers were some of the boldest around (Tasman, Jansoon, Hartog, Vlamingh etc.)
    I sincerely hope someone with insight and passion does that here.
    I might even take up my own challenge and do this very thing in the 1st half of next year!!
    (Watch this space!!)
    In the meantime, keep up the scintillatingly good work.
    As always, warmest regards,
    Reformed Warmist of Logan!

    160

  • #

    “Telepresencing hasn’t caught on even with the IPCC…”

    Scientists are working on ways to teleport hors d’oeuvres and open sandwiches without bursting the caviar and curdling the mayonnaise. Also, other teleportation tests have been kind of rough on both male and female escorts. And there’s something rather impersonal about just shifting money into Panama accounts for white elephant approvals. When all you’re pushing is busted antique tech like wind and solar it’s nice to feel a cold clammy hand and look into a cold dead eye.

    So it’s back on the Boeing!

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    • #
      JoKaH

      So it’s back on the Boeing!

      As long as its a 737Max!

      61

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        I watched a documentary last evening on YouLube concerning Boeing and the whistle-blowers who had tried (and failed in early 2000′s) to lift the lid on the imperfect practices surrounding the inferior manufacture of substantial airframe components, most recently, presciently and graphically illustrated, seemingly by 737MAX crashes.
        I cannot wish anyone a airplane crash. As a pilot who has had one or two closer shaves I know definitely that one is inclined to exercise every neurone to cling to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Structural failure is inclined to remove that option.
        Perhaps we could simply send them on a one way trip to the places they believe are warming dramatically, the Arctic or Antarctic spring to mind?

        100

      • #
        Greebo

        Given they are all grounded, there’s a massive reduction in emissions right there.

        40

      • #
        Another Ian

        Unfortunately there has probably been enough news on that lately so they might adapt the Boeing ad to

        “If it’s Boeing I’m not going”

        60

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Jo to be fair the 80 solutions on the list is explained in the About FAQ page,

    4. How did you choose solutions to be on this list?

    We evaluated well over 100 solutions, looking for the following criteria:

    Is the solution currently available and scaling?
    Is it economically viable? In other words, is there a business case?
    Does it have the potential to reduce GHGs in the atmosphere, either through avoided emissions or sequestration, by at least 50 million tons of greenhouse gasses over 30 years.
    Are there any negative results, such as pollution, reduced food security, land conversion, etc.? And if so, do the positive benefits outweigh the negatives?
    Do we have sufficient data to be able to model these technologies at global scale?
    Many proposed solutions did not make the initial cut. Those that did, underwent a full literature review and modeling by our research team. In some cases, after fully modeling proposed solutions, they were removed from the list because the data showed that our initial assessment was wrong. In the end, we arrived at 80 of the most substantive solutions in the book.

    Its like advertising 40 flavours of ice cream and only having 36, but you can always blend two to make a new one.

    101

    • #
      John in Oz

      To be on their list they say they consider “Is it economically viable? In other words, is there a business case?”

      #80 – Retrofitting
      IMPACT: As with net zero buildings, there are no results presented from our models here. Building owners who retrofit existing residential and commercial building space install better insulation, improved heating and cooling equipment, upgraded management systems, etc. These solutions are accounted for individually. No retrofit will look exactly the same, making forecasting costs and savings nearly impossible.

      Why is this (and several others) on the list if they cannot show an advantage to be gained?

      There is also no cost for #1 – refrigerant even though their proposal to use propane requires new equipment rather than retrofitting, mainly due to its flammability.

      70

  • #
    Maptram

    I can’t see anything about manufacture of all the components in country, so no shipping of raw materials out and components in, they must be in the missing 20.

    70

    • #
      Maptram

      I did notice one about shipping, but that was making shipping more efficient

      20

      • #
        MudCrab

        Because shipping companies LOVE running inefficient ships because profits are for shareholders and screw those guys.

        Those ships are businesses. They are not mid life crises sports cars that are driven for pure fun and who cares about the running costs, they exist to make a profit or they don’t exist at all.

        This lack of base understanding on how private industry works is why I tend to take everything these sorts of research studies wants to tell me with a healthy grain of salt and then tequila and then lemon. Then vodka because I don’t actually like the taste of tequila but we digress.

        Big, Medium and Small industry are already all over making their work more efficient. It is what keeps them competitive. If you want to run an inefficient business you are basically asking to be forced out of the market by someone who is willing to work smarter.

        Green Blog Nu Deals have nothing to do with it, and if we were truly honest with ourselves, nationalising industry in any Nu Deal is going to screw over industry so badly from a ‘green’ point of view that it would be cheaper both in cost and environmental damage to just burn a ton of dung in the street each morning.

        30

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    That’s Brilliant Jo.

    We must recognise that this Long March into social dysfunction has been going for more than forty years now and there is Evidence that it has peaked.

    The peaking is obvious in the arrival in the USA of the transformed media Goddess AOC.

    The perfection of this new life form is now acknowledged by “We The People” as being at least the equivalent and possibly a greater emanation than The Clintons.

    A human life form to be worshipped, a form where the Thinking and Reasoning areas of the brain are now separated from the Cortex thus leaving it free to express ideas and concepts in total gender neutral, low CO2 mode.

    We have arrived.

    KK

    101

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      One way or another KK, the insanity will be washed away. It is, as you know, the absolute and undeniable author of its own demise, an evolutionary dead-end from any and all perspectives.

      The good news is: that faith in material goods really does bring prosperity to society. The bad news is: that self-same commitment to material things leads inexorably to the destruction of the civilizations it builds. Using theatre as a measure society’s health, this book shows that Ancient Greece and Rome, Mediaeval Christendom and our own contemporary society all follow the same pattern: prosperity thrives on the conviction that the material world alone constitutes true ‘reality’; but that very conviction leads to a rejection of the supernatural, undermines absolute moral standards, and leads to cultural and social disintegration.

      Holding Up a Mirror: How Civilizations Decline
      Anne Glyn-Jones

      50

  • #
    Latus Dextro

    Project Drawdown — The new $74 Trillion dollar climate wishlist of the same old ideas

    Drawback, drawstring or just draws, it was obvious the scientivists would run out of ideas before they ran out of money. Little wonder the Green Blob is milking and manipulated the children for all its worth.
    The money will dry up soon, as the insanity of ‘settled politics’ inevitably unravels.
    How do these “researchers” ideologues expect to create the wealth to accomplish their pointless and extravagant nightmare?
    Collapsed economies, dwindling and vanishing prosperity, open borders, failed welfare systems, declining populations, uncertain identities, lack of liberty, purpose, independence, hope and happiness all eventually lead to chaos and collapse, and definitely no money. Plenty of CO2 though as most return to burning open fires for warmth and cooking.

    No, what they’ve unwittingly contributed to is the imminent rebirth of meaning and purpose out of the ashes of the most destructive, divisive, inequality ridden, excluding ideology to have been foisted on the West. Neo-Marxism, secular globalism and the trinity of identity politics, cultural Marxism and political correctness with its eco-fascist Trojan horse of climatism are well en route to the ash heap of history.
    The Green excrescence is being expressed from the chancrous sore of civilisation. It’s noisey, obvious, painful and messy.
    But there’s no avoiding the squeeze of reality, the desire for prosperity and the search for existential meaning beyond vapid materialism.

    50

  • #
    RickWill

    Educating young females IS the most effective form of population control. The inverse correlation between fertility and length of education is high and the mechanisms well known:
    http://blogs.worldbank.org/health/female-education-and-childbearing-closer-look-data

    I have posted this link for Hans Rosling’s video previously:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E
    If you have not seen it then it is an hour well spent.

    In my view, stressed infrastructure has reduced quality of life in Australian cities. Population growth is outpacing the development of infrastructure. The fertility rate is not to blame, rather immigration numbers.

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    • #
      Latus Dextro

      RickWill, great point.
      The relationship between fertility and length of education indoctrination is well known and as you highlight, a strong association appears to exist. As you may see, I would contend that were it indeed education to which we referred, the association would not hold up.

      As you allude to, immigration is intentionally out of control.
      On the other hand, it is revealing to see that several European nations do not ascribe to maintaining replacement birth rates (and therefore their social welfare systems) by open borders and unfettered migration … (BTW a disproved and silly argument for open borders as >50% of migrants appear to have no interest in integrating or necessarily finding work).

      Instead, in these countries they revive the traditional family with programmes to support it and the having of more children, so the child rich couple receive grants, subsidies and tax breaks. The result, a baby boom. Hungarian and Polish birth rates have risen to replacement value since 2010 by active promotion of the traditional family, and Russian birth rates have grown hugely again for the first time since the demise of the USSR. Genuine baby booms illustrate the reality of a desired relationship between nationalist movements and the health and desired perpetuation of its associated culture, customs and traditions. It is these things upon which it places value, and upon which it rests its identity.

      In stark contrast, the biological, political, social, environmental, indoctrinational and economic dimensions of a secular globalist ideology with its “values” rights including subjective fluid gender identity offer nix but an evolutionary dead end, indeed as is evidenced by the declining birth rates you cited.

      Find out why Hungary, Poland, and Russia are reversing Europe’s population decline.
      There’s a Nationalist Baby Boom Going On in Europe

      80

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        I am told that 85% of “refugees” into The Netherlands” have not been employed for the last 4 years. That puts a strain on any Welfare System and leads to voters supporting “populist” parties.

        51

      • #
        sophocles

        Haven’t you figured out the immigration scam, yet?

        It’s to keep land prices artificially high by raising competition for a (more or less static) `market.’ Falling prices scare the bejeeezus out of the so-called `economists’ because it means Depression, (think of 1933) rather than recession. High land prices means they can call the economy “successful” and “flourishing” and all the speculators will make heaps of “capital gains” out of it and pass that “wealth” (note: they never comment on the underlying inflation, except to call it “wealth”!) into the rest of the economy.

        There’s a recession on at the moment from the October 2017 credit crunch, but everyone is too scared to call it that: it might cause China to collapse and turn it into a Global Depression! If that was ever going to happen, it would have happened by now.

        20

  • #
    Maptram

    A couple of comments:

    #29 Wave and Tidal, Cost $411.84 billion, Saving -$1004.7 billion, in other words a loss, so there is a net loss of $1416.54 billion from wave and tidal

    #36 Alternative Cement. Saves $273.90 billion. However one of the specifically mentioned components of this alternative cement is fly ash, a by-product of burning coal. Since burning coal to produce electricity is a no-no under the new world order, perhaps they propose to burn coal to produce fly ash.

    90

  • #
    John in Oz

    I could not find a Kindle version.

    Paper must be more ecology-friendly than bytes.

    12

  • #
    Maptram

    The list goes from 1 to 80 in order of CO2 saved. Typical of people whose concern is about CO2 saving, with no consideration of money.

    If you do what I did and drop the table into a spreadsheet, you can manipulate the data in terms of Saving/Cost per GT of CO2 saved. On that list Fridge Management goes from #1 to #62. Fridge Management is a no cost to implement, and negative $902 billion in savings, for a net loss of $10.06 billion per GT CO2 saved.

    50

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    I’ll see your list of 100 failed apocalypse solutions and raise you one …

    China’s coal production increased by 3.3 percent in 2017 to over 3.5 billion metric tons—5 times greater than that of the United States.

    China consumes just over half of the coal consumed worldwide.

    U.S. Coal Exports Increased in 2018 as Countries Continue Their Consumption of Coal

    https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/coal/u-s-coal-exports-increased-in-2018-as-countries-continue-their-consumption-of-coal/

    That popping sound you heard was another greenie head exploding.

    40

  • #
    Maptram

    The believers can be both anti-CO2 and anti sexist but not both at the same time. So we won’t hear or see anything about sexism, even though it is, because
    it’s about CO2 reduction.

    30

  • #
    DMA

    So many of the things on the list are aimed at reducing CO2 emissions. Once again I point out that CO2 warming is , if it happens at all, caused by atmospheric CO2. Human Emissions do not control atmospheric CO2 and in fact only amount to about 4% of it. Thus none of this list that are aimed at controlling human emissions will do any of the things these folks say they are accomplishing. Maybe their true aim is at a different target. If not they need to study Harde 2017 and https://tambonthongchai.com/2018/1/19/co2responsiveness/

    32

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      DMA, based on the linked web site I believe you have commented there but you are not the author of the post/graphs you’re linking to.
      It looks like they were created by “chaamjamal”.

      From your link:

      Detrended correlation analysis extracts the portion of the observed source data correlation that derives from responsiveness at the chosen time scale by removing the portion that derives from shared trends. … Briefly, the trend is removed from the data so that only the regression residuals remain and a correlation between these residuals is used to measure the responsiveness of ΔCO2 to emissions.

      If the trend in emissions were causing the trend in the atmosphere this would produce a shared trend between the quantities. The post author manipulated the data to remove the inter-annual evidence of human causation (the shared trend) and then they concluded there is no evidence of human causation. That is cyclic reasoning and an invalid conclusion.

      You have seen the evidence showing human causation already posted there in the graphs of industrial emissions and the annual rise in CO2.
      [2nd panel of Fig2. https://chaamjamal.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/2YR-1.png ]
      The law of conservation of mass applies to the carbon in the Earth. What goes up must come down.
      Take 2009 as an example since it is right on the trend line. Your graph shows 9Gt was emitted from industrial activity during that year, but the amount in the air increased by only 4.5Gt. Use conservation of mass to determine what happened to the other half of the emitted carbon. Then figure out what that implies about the net absorption of carbon overall by the land and the ocean.

      The author’s scatter plot [ https://chaamjamal.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/2YR-2.png ] shows the high correlation between industrial emission and atmospheric increase quite clearly even on a 2-year averaged timescale, and it only gets stronger in the 5 year average. Detrending the emissions first is nonsensical as it changes which quantity is being graphed and is no longer testing emissions against the atmosphere derivative. The left hand side scatter plot is testing the dose-response relationship; whether an industrial emission of CO2 matches an increase in atmospheric CO2 over the same period. From the scatter plot it obviously correlates very well even if not 1:1 quantities.

      Try making a spreadsheet with 3 columns: the observed change in the industrial carbon repository (always negative since oil/coal/gas are being removed), a hypothetical change in the natural carbon repository (which can’t be directly measured), and the observed change in the atmosphere carbon repository (after converting ppm to GtC, which you’ve already done). Remember those 3 figures for the same period of time must sum to zero, otherwise you are creating or destroying carbon atoms. What possible range of values can you put in those 3 cells while still adhering to the law of conservation of mass? You can use spreadsheet formulas to help achieve mass balance in the various carbon transactions occurring. What figure has to go in the Nature Repository column if you put real world data in the other 2 columns?
      Does it change much from year to year? Is it ever negative? Do you see that the natural annual variance makes no difference to this conclusion?

      You said in a comment “I am not a math person”, but the math of the CO2 origin question is not complicated, it’s simple arithmetic. A lot of people do not accept the human causation conclusion until they have done the arithmetic themselves, because at that point they do not need to trust anybody’s word at face value, there are no hidden calculations or hidden model assumptions, and the logic is as simple as conservation of mass and basic arithmetic.

      30

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    Project Drawback,Just another variation on a theme. What’s behind the green door? Behind the attack on national sovereignty is the elite-ist globalist agenda of George Soris and the Trilateral Commission. The EU is its poster child. Its policy program, Agenda 21, blueprint for global governance was instigated via the United Nations’ Brundtland Report recommendation for a new economic model and first mention of Sustainable Development. The Trilateral Commission, an elite organisation with powerful members, bankers, directors of industry, politicians, media heavies. Gro Brundtland, ex-Prime-Minister of Norway, was herself a member. The members of the Trilateral Commission want a new world order based on an economic model first advocated by a group at Columbia University during the economic depression of the 1930’s but discredited in the same decade. In the 1980’s this movement for a new world order became another phoenix arising, thanks to the efforts of the Trilateral Commission. Here’s an informative you tube overview of its history by Patrick M. Wood, financial analyst and author who has studied elite globalization policies since the 1970s when with scholar Antony Sutton, he co-authored the book, ‘Trilaterals over Washington.’ https://tragedyandhope.com/technocracy-trilaterals-tpp-an-interview-with-patrick-wood/

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    Bill in Oz

    @Graeme Number 3 :
    I missed your comment re Adelaide Hills Council till this morning. Both those roads are a state responsibility so there is little that the Council can do. I agree it is dangerous and has become more so over the years. ( I used to live at Lenswood and used that intersection a lot. )
    I suspect that Adelaide Hills council is now dominated by folks who live in the Stirling Aldgate parts of the district. The rest is just a leftover to think about later…But then that is an outsiders view as I live in the Mt Barker District Council area.

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      Graeme No.3

      Bill,
      The Council was offered the chance to buy the old Bank building and straighten out the corner. They wanted it for free and refused building permission on the rest of (the extensive) land for over 10 years out of pure bloody mindedness.
      The old Bank building remain on the corner with the proposed Supermarket and carpark behind. That will direct the traffic onto Tiers road, so you wouldn’t want to live in Lenswood when that happens.
      I’ve had a couple of cases where Council Officers were “less than helpful” myself, as have many others. And I agree that several Councillors could well be renamed Barking.

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    Bill in Oz

    Jo, we seem to have skipped the “Weekend Unthreaded”.

    So I will raise this here as an off topic :
    Is anyone willing to comment on the significance of the Liberal?national win in NSW state election yesterday ? I am largely ignorant of NSW state politics. But I am surprised. All the polls were predicting Labor to ‘almost’ win.

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      Dennis

      Bill, Newspoll and Galaxy are now owned by UK based YouGov, they operate in the US and their polls were called out for over sampling, that is counting more of one side (Clinton) than the other (Trump) to achieve the poll result favouring Clinton.

      Psephologists produce voting trends and predictions for future elections and they use the voting figures by electorate, by polling booths in each electorate, over a number of past elections to calculate a trend. And then allocate primary votes and estimated preferences to obtain a two party preferred result by candidate, by electorate.

      The pollsters using the same figures target area most likely to contain a majority of voters who could be expected to vote again for the side the pollster wants to support and predict a win or too close to call result.

      I acknowledge that when polls are conducted in a bipartisan way, errors considered, they can be a reasonably accurate guide.

      My impression in recent decades is that many of the polls should not be taken too seriously.

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      philthegeek

      But I am surprised. All the polls were predicting Labor to ‘almost’ win.

      Overall, a surprisingly “neutral” result. On the polling this was really one that could have gone either way. The only real “losers” out of the political parties are the NATS. Will be interesting to see if they re-calibrate ahead of the Federal election and that depends on what lessons they learn from this. Not sure they will learn the right ones but we will see.

      One complication in NSW is Optional Preferential Voting. Makes results harder to pick from polling.

      Saw an interesting and sensible comment on the telecast last night by Zimmerman about this “preference PHON last” question. His take is no, dont commit to that. Something MORE repugnant than PHON may rise up out of the filth at short notice.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        “Something MORE repugnant than PHON may rise up out of the filth at short notice.”

        The Greens have been “out” far ages…

        There can be NOTHING more REGUGNANT than the Greens like diNatali, that can come from the fetid leftist swamp you dwell in, phoolp…

        ON ! just a shop-keeper that wants the best for Australia.

        There is nothing repugnant about them. Bet you can’t name anything..

        Your comment is just a worthless opinion from a hard-left trollgidyte.

        It will be great to see Malcolm Roberts back in parliament next Federal election. :-)

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        Bill in Oz

        “The nationals are the real losers”

        As someone who lived a long while in a safe national party seat, and which was laost & then regained by the Nationals, I know that process quite well.

        The National party in general has seats that are very safe. and so the needs of voters in those seats can easily be ignored especially when they need to make compromises with the Liberal party as part of being in the Coalition with it’s own agenda.

        That’s why the Shooters Fishers & Farmers has emerged in country NSW..It is the locally focussed alternative to the national party.. And that is why Barnaby Joyce has been making his recent comments on such issues as energy & coal & water etc..

        So how could these things play in the bush ?

        I wonder if the National Party would do better if it campaigned as a separate entity to the Liberal party with it’s own policies in the next Federal election ?..

        That would put the interests of it’s own folk in the bush first – rather than a joint campaign where the interests of people in the bush are completely lost ..in the Liberal party’s campaign focussed on the cities and the needs of people in the cities.

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          el gordo

          Bill its more than likely the coming budget will have fresh water piped into western NSW from Lake Argyle and a very fast train under the Blueys to Broken Hill.

          If there is nothing along those lines then the SFF will have a field day.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            “under the Blueys to Broken Hill.”

            Nope, not Broken Hill

            Orange, Bathurst, Parkes, Dubbo, Armidale, Tamworth, Wagga..

            those are the regions than need the link.

            Then divert water from North Coast of NSW to the Lachlan, Macquarie, Namoi, MacIntyre Rivers

            Open up all the western slopes of NSW.

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          philthegeek

          Funnily enough Bill, over the years the W.A. Nats have seemed to be (and i have heard this from VERY senior Nats years ago) much more ideologically aligned with the W.A. ALP. But, their voter base doesn’t like to look of ALP/Nat cooperation. Seems not really the dymanic east of here though…and QLD? FF…im sure there is something just odd in the water up there. :)

          Interesting that comment on the SFF gains in NSW is saying they did’t win on their attitude toward guns. Actually water and environment big factor. Will be interesting to see where that goes. I suspect gun laws are more of a concern in the metro electorates (particularly post Christchurch) and failures on water / dead rivers and dead fish have slapped a few country voters in the face.

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    PeterS

    In an interview today on the aftermath of the NSW election opposition leader Daley announced he will make sure the NSW government will deliver on all their promises and hold them to account. That’s good news. That means his party will have to pass everything the Libs will put through parliament, including any proposal to open up new coal mines and build new coal fired power stations. Fat chance. Own goal!

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    Serge Wright

    Those savings figures look like they came out of a Green’s budget paper.

    For example, if you look at number-2 – onshore wind. They claim a cost of $1.2 trillion and a savings of $7.4 trillion. But, savings based on what ?. We all know that wind is more expensive than every other form of thermal power generation, especially when you add storage. Then I noticed down near the bottom of the list @ 77 there is a mention of energy storage but with no cost. I’m guessing this is because they realise there is no effective scalable storage technology available and the cost of the existing technologies is prohibitive. If you click the link they state –

    “Dozens of start-ups and established companies are racing to create low-cost, low-toxicity, and safe batteries that will revolutionize energy storage, while some utilities are already installing banks of lithium-ion batteries to help meet peak demand.”

    I have no idea what they imply here, but engineers and scientists have been investing heavily in this field for over 100 years with slow progress over decades. To underpin an entire plan on technology that doesn’t exist and may never exist is so typical of Green iodeology. They also ressurect solar thermal, geothermal, and wave and todal technologies that have been proven as failers more times than socialism.

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    ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

    Educated girls produce fewer human babies which means less humans in 20 years which will make less CO2..

    You can’t stop hormones with sensibility in 3rd world countries or anywhere to introduce birth control they either can’t afford and don’t care for, no matter how much they’re starving.

    Another great benefit they tell us is that educated girls are “less likely to marry as children or against their will.”

    Glad you mentioned the warlord, Jo, but it’s not just them according to India’s class system and not forgetting every Middle-Eastern-derived religion spread over the globe. Both either sell off their girls for “dowry’s” or simply scribble bigamy into their “law”, whether living in the West that abhors it or otherwise. How the schits at Project Drawdown profess to make “education of girls” reduce CO2 emissions at all is beyond me. Maybe they’ll link that to freezing of the oceans to stop them outgassing?

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      Sceptical Sam

      Maybe they’ll link that to freezing of the oceans to stop them outgassing?

      Hmmm….

      Maybe if the girls were frigid?

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    • #

      Yes, as I said, bring your 800ft guiderope. I didn’t even mention that the deepest part of that wreck of cause and effect starts with the assumption that teaching girls arithmetic and whatnot will “cause” less babies. There is a very solid correlation there, but the cause and effect chain may even be back to front. It’s more likely that societies that can afford to educate girls and have the organisational, moral and ethical culture to insist on it are the real cause of the demographic transition, not the contents of YR 7 grammar.

      As many commenters have observed — taking school books to a third world impoverished nation isn’t going to change the birthrate on its own.

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    ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

    Educated girls produce fewer human babies..

    That line just struck me as illogical. Just what kind of babies would “uneducated” girls produce..?

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    • #
      Sambar

      Rev, television for all will produce fewer human babies. Solar powered , wind powered, coal fired power, nothing kills the incenive to reproduce quite as quick as the idiot box.

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      • #
        Sambar

        “incentive”

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        ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

        ..nothing kills the incenive to reproduce quite as quick as the idiot box.

        Especially if watching that idiotic Gobblepox show and nothing turns women off faster than watching porn, they allege.

        But I should have bolded “human babies” in the quote. I mean, don’t those clustercucks at Project Drawdown actually proof read anything they write? I don’t see why they needed to specify “human” babies. Do they profess that “uneducated” girls bear ferrets or litters of an alien species?

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      RickWill

      I posted this link above. It gives great insight into the reasons that the time in education for young females is inversely related to their fertility rate:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Project Drawdown – A very good specimen of Environmental Imperialism.

    Why do I say this?
    1. All their solutions involve a technological intervention
    2. Those interventions are designed around a western lifestyle
    3. The advisory group, is overwhelmingly taken from the USA.
    4. Oceans do not feature.
    5. It is assumed that a western lifestyle is sustainable (and desirable)
    6. It is assumed that those not already benefiting from said lifestyle are happy to have solutions imposed upon them, even though, they are not part of the problem.

    Former colonial subjects will react badly to having such ‘solutions’ imposed on them.

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      robert rosicka

      That’s it in a nutshell putz isn’t it , you hate your Western lifestyle and anyone else who enjoys the easier life we have .

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Nicely missing the point as usual.

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          AndyG55

          There was no POINT to your post to miss.

          ie . was like all your posts.. POINTLESS.

          “Environmental Imperialism.”

          Yes… Eco-marxism and totalitarianism. Right down your troll-ee.

          NOTHING to do with actually cutting CO2 emissions….

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      Kinky Keith

      Speaking of drawbacks, just what is the biggest drawback in Africa today?

      KK

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  • #
    jack

    :
    How to write a best seller in 2019.
    :
    Find the subject:
    Lets see, an issue the media will push with more gusto than Goebbels on amphetamines.
    Of course -Climate Change.
    :
    Give it an emotionally charged,fear inducing heading.
    Say :- “WE ALL DEAD.”
    :
    For the bulk of the content, don’t be objective or original,
    just rehash the “standard ideas”.
    :
    Come up with one idea to make it unique.
    Umm..A recording of whale sounds with a voice over of Al Gore reciting Inconvenient Truth, which you play to your baby in the womb.
    :
    Hit the best seller list,
    buy a water front property on a tropical island,
    kick back on the beach,
    drinking piña coladas,
    thinking “SUCKERS”.

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    Maptram

    #21 Clean Cookstoves covers “improved” cookstove technologies.

    A wide range of “improved” cookstove technologies exists, with a wide range of impacts on emissions. Advanced biomass stoves are the most promising. By forcing gases and smoke from incomplete combustion back into the stove’s flame, some cut emissions by an incredible 95 percent, but they are more expensive and can require more advanced pellet or briquette fuels.

    If forcing gases and smoke from incomplete combustion back into the stove’s flame can cut emissions by an incredible 95%, then similar techniques can be used with burning coal to produce electricity, and reduce the emissions by 95%

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    Slithers

    Smart Micro-Grids.

    Ok, we took notice of the Project-Drawdown options and as we lived on a new sub-division. We clubbed together and set our-selves up with a smart micro-grid, # 78 on that list.
    Not cheap, but we were the first to try this new technology. Just 70 new homes all with solar roof top panels, all with a power wall. We even went to the expense of getting an individually designed and supplied sub-station that connected us to the main grid. A fail safe, just in case we needed the good old grid energy. The homes were nearing completion and certificates of occupancy were issued as each home became ready.
    The first problem was what to do with all that solar power energy as the roof-top solar had been fitted to all 70 homes over a couple of days. This was not a problem until the power wall batteries became fully charged, but only 10 homes were occupied.
    Sell the excess of course!
    The special sub station was not yet connected and would be a month or two before if was fully operational. Covers were made and un-occupied homes were in effect shielded from the sun. These covers were to be removed as homes were occupied.
    Spring became Summer, and the sun shone almost every day, we still had energy to burn and the special sub-station had still not been delivered. We bought a couple of EV’s. they were used by the householders on alternate days.
    All the homes were occupied. We still had surplus energy. The sub-station had arrived. There were problems with the installation. Then we had the first of what were to become repeated problems, appliance failures, then inverter failures. Over voltage and then under voltage was to blame. Replacements were acquired. Then on the big day every appliance had to be turned off and the sub-station connected. The engineer in charge was very careful to power each house on himself, so the load came on slowly. It worked so well.
    We had a major party to celebrate. We ignored the fact that it had cost twice as much as was originally budgeted for. We were doing our bit to reduce CO2 emissions. The press and local dignitaries were invited to attend a formal opening ceremony.
    When everyone was there and the champagne had flowed freely, the pesky weather turned on us. There was a severe hail storm. The electricity shut down with a bang. Smoke was issuing from our special sub-station. Solar panels were being damaged by 10cm hail stones. Cars, TV vehicles all damaged. Our homes with-out power. The celebration fizzled out!
    Then the really bad news began.
    The sub-station was a write off. The lead time for a replacement was 17 months.
    Connection to the local main grid would be problematical as even our small base load would exceed the local sub-stations already stretched capacity. We had to get our roof top solar back functioning.
    Sorry there are no replacements available the solar panel industry had moved on, different connectors incompatible sizes, you name we had been left out on a limb. We have to wait for the factory in China to make more of our already out of date panels and then ship them to us. A five-month delay.
    Our community became a ghost settlement. Surrounded by homes with electricity yet with-out power. We all found alternative accommodation. We employed a security firm to keep our valuable property safe.
    One of our members died, his descendants were unable to sell his property. The security firm were guarding a cluster of white elephants.
    After the replacement panels were installed some of us moved back in, only to face the same problems as before. Too much energy, not enough storage, no way to sell the excess, failing appliances and inverters, one of the EV’s caught fire and needed to be replaced, financial constraints forbad that. The insurance firm refused to replace it, the cause of the fire had been determined to be caused by an over-voltage supply whilst it had been on-charge, so our fault!
    Only another year before our replacement sub-station is delivered. No chance of going on the macro grid and who would want to do that when weekly black-outs are occurring!

    Smart Grids are the way to go!
    Well just as long as the sun is shining!
    Did we say you also needed very large bank balance?

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    TdeF

    All these ideas mask the basic one. Exterminate Western democracies, if only by limiting their children, removing their borders, invasion and demands from devastated socialist countries like Cuba, Venezuela, El Salvador and the whole Middle East. Military dictatorships, not democracies. Run by criminals, pretending they have been elected.

    The death rate in most of South and Central America is 10x to 20x that of North America. As for life in Iraq, Libya, Gaza, Iran, Obama’s Arab Spring funded with cash and arms has destroyed the very cities of the region, cities which have stood for millenia. Now being replaced by the military dictatorships which were already there, but without any pretence of a rule of law. Even Erdogan is urging peaceful Turks in Europe to populate their way to power, while the stupid Europeans are teaching their girls science and birth control.

    The UN is behind all this. Apart from the Security Council, a rag tag of military dictatorship like Mugabe’s Zimbabwe which is actively trying to bring their form of devastation to countries like Australia and the US. Then from nowhere Bureaucrats like the EU and UN will appear to bring order to chaos.

    All to save the planet. But who will save us from the UN/EU social demolition job. Pity poor Venezuela. Once a rich first world democratic country. Now the highest murder rate in the world with no oil, no jobs, no food, people fleeing and the military have all the guns. Socialism. Being pushed in book form as a good thing. The Green New deal in practice in Venezuela, socialist hero state.

    Incidentally Venezuela has been propping up Cuba with free oil. What now for Cuba, that other shining light of socialism by the barrel of a gun.

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    Maptram

    # 12 Temperature Forests. “While temperate forests are not threatened by the same large-scale deforestation that afflicts the tropics, they continue to be fragmented by development.”

    To me development includes clearing for solar and wind farms.

    I would like to know how much area is occupied by solar and wind farms, thereby reducing the area available for plants to sequester CO2, compared with the area occupied by fossil fuel fired power stations to produce the same quantity of electricity. That’s for the system only. A week or two ago, there was a post that included a statement that the EU doesn’t consider electricity from biomass (trees) is OK because if a tree is cut down, another grows back. Using similar logic, the area occupied by a coal mine doesn’t count because when the coal has been extracted and the site rehabilitated, trees grow to replace any removed.

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  • #

    I’m surprised that CCS didn’t get a mention here.

    I guess even these people know it doesn’t work.

    Tony.

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    I edited the title. 74 became 30. Instead of the supposed modelled, imaginary “benefits” better to focus on the ambit claim of the cost.

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    Maptram

    Like many of the items on the list #34 Biomass is good in theory but not in the real world.

    “Carbon-rich biomass can be harvested to produce heat, create steam for electricity production, or be processed into oil or gas. Doing so trades in carbon that is already in circulation, cycling from atmosphere to plants and back again. Grow plants and sequester carbon. Process and burn biomass. Emit carbon. Repeat. It produces net zero new emissions, so long as use and replenishment remain in balance.”

    The problem is with the time delay between when the trees are harvested and when the replacements have grown to the same dimensions so as to sequester the same amount of CO2. The time delay covers growing time and seasons. For example, say it takes 5 years for a tree to grow from a seedling to the size where it is using the same amount of CO2 as the tree it replaced, and 1000 acres are cut each year for the biomass plant. After 5 years, 5000 acres has been harvested and burnt, and depending on seasons, 5000 acres has been replanted but with only 1000 acres of fully grown trees and the rest at various stages of growth down to seedlings.

    So in theory, use and replenishment are in balance, but because of growing time, there is a delay in the time it takes for each tree to be replaced by another of the same size, if growing conditions remain the same every year.

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      ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

      Biomass is good in theory but not in the real world.

      Greenies (and Kyoto) don’t want anyone with a wood stove in the bush to collect biomass (firewood) because it apparently reduces places for animals (marsupials or a plague of mice – pick one) to live or hide. Then they selectively forget it just creates a far bigger bushfire problem without regular burn-offs (aka, Kinglake etc), but then such burn-offs reduce places for animals to live or hide again.

      I’m sure the retreads that come up with such things as Kyoto dream them up in their artist’s studio loft while quaffing chianti and munching smashed avo on toast and have no care for others living in such bushfire prone areas. They need to trade places with twin-share cave accommodation.

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    Ken Henrick

    Educated girls produce fewer human babies which means less humans in 20 years…

    No, that would eventually produce fewer educated girls.

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    Ve2

    Awful lot of N/A’s in that table.

    Does N/A stand for too embracing to publish, not applicable, not costed or NFI.

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    Tel

    Another great benefit they tell us is that educated girls are “less likely to marry as children or against their will. ” Ponder all those poor unschooled girls who accidentally marry against their own will. Oops, damn, I got married today and I didn’t want to? How is educating girls supposed to make that less likely? Dear Warlord, I learnt my times tables, don’t marry me off?

    That seems to me like cart-before-the-horse style causality.

    Girls who are not forced to marry as children get more opportunities to become educated.

    First you need to impose rule of law and respect for individual rights upon the warlords … then you can move towards a culture of universal educational opportunities.

    This rapidly becomes another reason to keep the troops in Afghanistan, which hmmmm needs a much bigger budget, and a lot more social workers … but don’t call this “Imperialism”, don’t call it “Colonialism”, we are winning hearts and minds and helping those poor children. Did I mention the bigger budget? Good!

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    Dean

    There may only be 80 on the list now, but wait till the first round of homogenisation.

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    PeterPetrum

    Sorry, not a comment. Had to clear my cache and log in again, for tech reasons. Apologies.

    10