JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

We have our own unthreaded poem!

Wind-farms and solar thermal plants will prey,
On birds of every size who fly their way.

The public, to pay less per kilowatt hour,
Must vote to drive the zealot Greens from power.

Australia’s constitution has a flaw,
When politicians wish to change the law,
By referendum, have the flaw corrected,
That very flaw will rule their wish rejected.

Bad-tempered glass can have a snap eruption,
Like children’s tantrums cause a quick disruption.

– Ruairi

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Rating: 9.1/10 (41 votes cast)
Weekend Unthreaded, 9.1 out of 10 based on 41 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/yd2uss28

124 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Annie

    Golly…timing…just went bavk to Jo’s blog!

    40

  • #
    Annie

    Oh rats! ‘Back’.

    40

  • #
    Annie

    Must be the delicious Aussie ‘Fizz’…Sunday evening relaxation before cooking.

    40

  • #

    Just how good is coal fired power, eh!

    I was chasing up information for my weekly Base Load Power Posts. I have noticed that one of the Units at the Stanwell Power plant, which is only 20Km from where I’m sitting now, has been off line for these last 8 weeks I have been doing this task. I found out that Unit (Number 3) is undergoing an overhaul and upgrade at a cost of $53 Million. Who would have thought, eh? Coal fired power is supposedly dead, and they’re spending millions upgrading a plant to extend its life, proudly announced by a Labor Government, whose local member here in Rockhampton, Bill Byrne says that the Queensland government had a coherent strategy in place to reach a 50% renewable energy target by 2030 to reduce emissions, adding “Clearly, a great part of the future is about renewables, it’s not about coal fired power stations.”

    I also noticed another little snippet of information as well. I have mentioned previously that in 2002, it was Unit 4 at this plant which set a World record for continuous operation of 1073 consecutive days.

    I found a recent article that said that in August of 2015, another Unit at this same plant broke that previous World record the plant held. This was Unit 1 at the same plant, and it also ran continuously, delivering its full power for 1088 days, and that’s one week short of three years.

    That’s one Unit of 361MW.

    For the sake of comparison, let’s look at the biggest wind plant in Australia, Macarthur wind plant in Victoria. It has 140 turbines and a Nameplate of 420MW, so it’s Nameplate is larger than this one Unit at Stanwell. Macarthur Wind plant opened in 2013, so it has been in operation now for 4 years.

    To deliver the same power generated by this ONE unit at Stanwell, Macarthur will have to wait until late 2021 to do that, so it will take eight and a half years to generate the same power as this one unit at Stanwell did in three years.

    140 turbines versus one Unit at a coal fired power plant. Eight and a half years versus three years.

    So, there’s every chance that Macarthur will serve out it full (hoped for) 25 year life span and only deliver the same amount of power as three units at one coal fired power plant could have feasibly delivered in three years.

    There is no comparison.

    Incidentally, when Macarthur Wind plant expires after those 25 years, Stanwell will still be operating, probably for a further eight to ten years.

    My latest post on that Base Load Series is at the following link. (my shameless plug!)

    Australian Base Load Electrical Power – Week Ending 19th August 2017

    Tony.

    431

    • #
      clive hoskin

      Plug away mate.We like you.

      180

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      Tony, you provide me with so much “do you know that y coal fired power station delivers as much in one year as x hundreds of wind turbines do in 20″ conversation starters (stoppers?) at dinner parties. Please do not stop.

      110

    • #
      RobK

      Thanks Tony,
      It was refreshing to see the CEO of One Steel on the ABC’s “The Business” tonight (monday) saying we need more baseload power.

      30

  • #
    TedM

    Thanks for another informative post Tony.

    120

  • #
    pat

    TonyfromOz – I don’t want this piece I posted on jo’s “Al Gore” thread after jo had put up a new thread to get overlooked. lots of amusement. the Bloomberg & Reuters pieces on the same topic are also on the “Gore” thread and worth a read:

    19 Aug: Patch: Solar Eclipse 2017: Californians Urged To Conserve Energy
    By Kristina Houck
    https://patch.com/california/lajolla/solar-eclipse-2017-californians-urged-conserve-energy

    also posted late in comments there is PM Turnbull declaring Tasmania has a “chance to become the renewable energy battery of the nation” and now, out of moderation, the ANU/Govt-funded survey saying 80% of Aussies believe in “climate change”.

    100

    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      Shouldn’t that figure be 97% Pat , tell them their dreaming .

      90

    • #
      toorightmate

      Alfred Gorebells – Minister for Propaganda.

      101

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Poor old California. Always on the losing side of nature. :-(

      Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha… giggle giggle giggle giggle giggle giggle giggle giggle giggle giggle giggle giggle…

      Dumbo knew you should fly. California knows you should be afraid of the moon’s “shadow” on the sun and conserve energy. Never mind that the lions share of our energy wont be coming from the sun but from those horrible big generator with massive rotors that California thinks need eliminating… but ever mind the consequences, go full out for solar and make the economy stromer by providing jobe. Never mind that most of the manufacturing of nearly everything is still done in China, Japan, South Korea and nearly every place that’s not here in America.

      I think I’ll run my air conditioner full bore through the eclipse just to see if anything happens.

      Actually, no, I can’t. It would freeze me out.

      100

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        And maybe someday, with the help of solar energy of course, I may learn to proofread before posting. ;-)

        100

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Hi Roy, I like your approach…California reminds me of a bunch of illiterate medaevil bufoons who worry the sky will fall on their heads unless they appearts the weather “gods”….

          Talk about a rapidly devolving population….

          You said you would be frozen out – does that mean your aircon load would be dumped off the grid for using it flat out?

          40

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            No. It would get too cold in the house if I forced it to run continuously. Sorry if I confused you.

            It was a non event as far as I can tell. They don’t make eclipses like they used to. ;-)

            A lot of people were watching it of course. I’ve been told that motels in Oregon along the full eclipse path have been charging $900/night. Ripoff artists all.

            00

        • #
          ROM

          Roy Hogue @ # 6.3.1
          .
          If yu do lern to prufe reed, I’ve got a job for yu!

          :-)

          60

      • #
        James

        It has been that cool here in upstate NY this summer, I have not put in my window mounted air conditioner, and the upstairs wall mounted unit has hardly been used.

        70

    • #

      With this solar eclipse all the talk in the U.S. we can only hope enough people have good stocks of this clever little item, eh!

      The 10 Best Solar Powered Flashlights

      Tony.

      81

      • #

        looks useful for camping but I’d like to feel its build quality and get the charging efficiency and weight specs to compare against carrying batteries. Let’s face it, the efficiency of torch light now means they last longer without needing replacement and weight is almost not an issue.

        Compare what you get today with carbide lamps or those battery packs that cavers needed to carry

        20

  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    I’m trying to get the ABC to do a please explain , this story they ran on a research ship studying climate change and its effects on coral reefs is way out there and I’ve asked the Somoan Govt if it was true that a team of scientists struggled to find any coral life while there .
    Given that tourism is a major part of their economy I’m sure this false report / claim won’t help their tourism numbers .
    Will be interesting what the response is if any .

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-19/researchers-shocked-by-coral-bleaching-in-pacific/8822126

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    • #

      “What we’ve seen in really isolated spots like Samoa for example, even though it’s very far away from [developed] countries with pollution, we struggled to find any coral life,” he said.

      pretty poor quote selection and editing. I wonder what he actually meant? Samoa the country or region (ie incl. American Samoa)? All of it or some part where he expected coral?

      It is pretty easy to find some reef pictures from the last week on tripadvisor taken by tourists if you need some accessible and current evidence.

      60

      • #
        Robert Rosicka

        Using the word “pollution” as in Somoa is far from sources of pollution is also untruthfull and a quick check on Google will find references to a waste pipe from a tuna cannery being moved so it didn’t have an impact on the reef .
        Thanks for the tripadvisor advice GA but this story just screamed alarmist junk , I have already researched Kirrabati and Somoa about six months ago and if Somoa had next to no reef I think ABC would have it as headline news for a month .

        30

      • #
        Ted O'Brien

        Too much kava perhaps?

        00

      • #
        el gordo

        Samoa is on the fringe of the coral triangle and would have experienced a drop in sea level with the strong El Nino.

        ‘Coral Mortality Induced by the 2015–2016 El-Niño in Indonesia: The Effect Of Rapid Sea Level Fall by Ampou 2017, Indonesian biologists had reported that a drop in sea level had bleached the upper 15 cm of the reefs before temperatures had reached NOAA’ Coral Reef Watch’s bleaching thresholds.

        ‘As discussed by Ampou 2017, the drop in sea level had likely been experienced throughout much of the Coral Triangle including the northern Great Barrier Reef (GBR), and then accelerated during the El Niño. They speculated sea level fall also contributed to the bleaching during the 1998 El Niño. Consistent with the effects of sea level fall, other researchers reported bleaching in the GBR was greatest near the surface then declined rapidly with depth. Indeed if falling sea level was the main diver in 2016’s reef mortalities, and this can be tested, then most catastrophic assertions made by Hughes 2017 would be invalid.’

        00

  • #

    This is really left field.
    The Taliban have written a letter to Trump asking him to leave Afghanistan.
    https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/world/open-letter-to-trump-taliban-urges-us-to-quit-afghanistan/

    In ‘The White House Years’, Kissinger’s autobiography, he states his policy on dealing with the Soviets during the Cold War.
    Despite their propensity to expand by wars of liberation, he said that the West had to tell the Soviet Union clearly the line they could not cross without major retaliation.
    It is noteworthy that Trump has sacked Bannon and is inviting Kissinger over to the White House.
    Since Trump told North Korea the line they may not cross, perhaps other combatants are trying dialogue.
    In the meanwhile China and India are facing off.
    Hopefully China does not want a two front battle and will back off in the South China Sea with their tacit support for North Korea.
    Things would be very messy for them if they try and bully an India, with the worlds first ‘peaceful’ nuclear weapons.
    We in Australia would surely benefit if our major trading partners are not caught up in a war zone.

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    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      We in Australia would surely benefit if our major trading partners are not caught up in a war zone.

      You’d think so.

      However, never forget that mainland China is a Communist totalitarian dictatorship. Such entities export and foment “wars of independence” and other aggressive incursions. Democracy is anathema to them. Look what’s happening in Hong Kong, as we speak. And, whatever you do, don’t look at what happens to Falun gong adepts, either; in Communist China or out. Or, for that matter, Christians and Moslems.

      Mainland China has no qualms about the stealing IP of others and using it to grow its military and commercial interests. Scientists in Australia and other Western democratic societies are “babes-in-the woods” when it comes to the Communist China’s theft of their Intellectual property. We run this silly “publish or perish” nonsense and give away valuable and expensive research outcomes for nothing more than a citation in an international research journal. Madness.

      There will come a time when Communist China will push the envelope beyond its current low level aggression. At that time the West will need to be resolute.

      A war between India and China may in the long-run be just what is needed. The alternative is called appeasement. And we have a history that tells us what that leads to. better to pay the price while the goings cheap.

      60

      • #
        ROM

        The more the Chinese try to extend their power and influence outside of China’s borders, the more that China will be forced to change internally, externally and politically.

        How, when and in which political and social direction those changes will go, I don’t know.
        But change it will as it tries to and has to fit in with the cultures, ideologies, social constucts and economies of other nations even if it dominates those nations.

        The Commumnists of the Soviet Union stole an immense array of technology and secrets from the west .

        But in the end their internal political and social structures failed miserably to take any significant advantage of those stolen secrets and technology due to the way in which the rigid, inflexible and unable to adapt rapidly to changes, internal and external Soviet power was structured.
        They were just incapable of adapting and using that western generated technology and political secrets to place themselves in a commanding position of power and influence over the west.

        It is illustrative to realise that the Fall of the Soviet Union was begun, not by the Soviets themselves but by their vassal states in Eastern Europe who with inside knowledge had to come to the realisation that the Soviet Union with its fixed inflexible political structures had become rotten through and through and could no longer enforce its power over all of those vassal Eastern European states.

        It took the Soviets some 75 years following the disasters of the Russian army in WW1 and then the Russian civil war, just three generations to go from seizing power to losing power.

        It is now 70 years since the end of WW2 and the Japanese occupation of China and the end of the Chinese civil war in 1947.
        Unlike the Russians during WW2, China never had any heavy industry or trained enginers or technicians following the end of their civil war.

        They began from a much lower technological and social base than the Russians in 1917.
        They have had to build up themselves from a much lower base of technology and from a poor peasant dominated society and social structure before they both achieved the technology and the social levels that they needed before they were in a position to begin their expansion into the world outside of China’s borders.

        Now that expansion is well underway and the Chinese like the Soviets did not, are going to have to adapt, often rapidly in today’s fast moving communications connected global society, their political system and political culture to cater for other possibly future vassal nations impacts on their own internal culture and political apparatus unless they, like all great powers that failed to adapt quickly enough, will become just another note in history books of a empire that lasted but a short time before once again like so many before it, just disappeared into the mists of history.

        20

  • #
    Dennis

    From 1992

    MEDIA RELEASE AND ACTION UPDATE FROM CONCERNED CITIZENS OF INVERELL, N.S.W.

    The recent High Court ruling upholds barrister George Turner’s long stated assertions that a large number of politicians are sitting in Parliament illegally. The fact that he brought this matter to the attention of the Governor General and the Federal Police some years ago and their refusal to act has ramifications that can only be guessed.

    “The decision by the High Court is binding, not subject to appeal, and the Federal politicians must abide by it. “Broadly speaking, most of the laws passed through the Parliament in the last few years could be found to be null and void. “Covenants entered into with the United Nations that have brought in World Heritage nonsense, as well as a mess of other obnoxious laws, could be thrown out. “This matter is the greatest opportunity the Freedom Movement has ever had to get sanity back into Australia. “Contact your local Federal M.P., or Senator, and ask for the ’1975 Common Informers Parliamentary Disqualification Act’.

    “This Act was rushed through during the Senator Webster affair. “If they stonewall you, and they will, be specific and quote the ‘House of Representatives Hansard, 16th April 1975, pages 1661-1662′. “On page 10 of Weekend Australian 28th-29th November, 1992, Professor Blackshield says the public could use the 1975 law that allows them to sue people who sit in Parliament under false pretenses. “Concerned Australians have been eating crow from their politicians for a long time. “Point out these facts to your local Member, and demand to know what they personally are going to do about it – NOW.

    “Time is very short. Hit them hard before they crawl away. “A detailed legal assessment will follow as soon as it can be prepared. “Spread this message far and wide. We can win this one.”
    Issued by Concerned Citizens of Inverell, N.S.W. Further information from George Turner, (067) 25 6486

    130

    • #
      Peter C

      WOW.

      Watch this space. I seems to me that the High court has the say. What will they do?

      20

      • #
        Dennis

        Three Labor appointees.

        So will these lawyers represent Australia or choose to allow foreigners to control us, gradually?

        20

  • #
    • #
      Graeme #4

      Did some petrol-battery energy calculations recently. it seems that 4 large coke bottles filled with petrol, weighing about 8kgs, “store” the same energy as the 540kg Tesla battery pack, filled with over 7000 old laptop batteries, and which costs over $20 to “refill”. Just can’t understand why anybody would buy an electric car.

      140

      • #
        Robert Rosicka

        Just looking at an electric 4wd , can go 200-300 Kilometres between 8-12 hour charges , one 4wd mag is all gooey and love it however when touring you might do much more than this in a day and as far as I’m aware gumtree power points are far and few between.

        91

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          An electric 4WD?

          Yep…sure…drive one through a flooded river crossing, water up to the window sills and watch it catch fire…..

          Dumbest idea ever…..

          100

        • #
          Annie

          I don’t see one tackling the Tanami Track too easily?

          40

          • #
            ROM

            Just wait until you can only buy electric tow trucks to tow those EV’s all the way home after they reached the end of their range without finding a plug thats connected to a power station somewhere.

            Going to get even more interesting for the EV 4WD jockeys when some charging stations way out there at the end of their range are only powered by solar or wind.
            And its cloudy and / or calm for a few weeks at a time in some seasons.

            Ah well, they will just have to fire up the petrol or diesel powered camp generator to get some charge back into those EV batteries which could take a couple of days to do.

            Thats if the man of the set up remembered to fill the camp generator tank at the last place they stopped at where you could still buy those nasty hydrocarbon fuels.

            50

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              Unless the plan is to make everything electric, thus stopping people getting away from the cities in a 4WD. I think by that stage I’d be either making my own bio diesel or brewing my own ethanol….electric is OK if you live in urban areas and just want a lame “mums taxi” rechargeable shopping trolley, but beyond that, electric is next to useless….

              Even diesel locos are diesel for a reason….

              30

              • #
                ROM

                star comment In line with a technique pioneered by a “Skeptical Science” reviewer, I climbed onto an exercise bike and using that same technique of checking science papers for the percentage of scientists who believe in global warming / Climate change. ie; 97% according to the reviewers at Skeptical science, as a standard I reviewed about 25 articles per hour that mention Electric vehicles.

                These articles referred to and were supported by a the whole range of the public such as wind turbine farm owners, solar panel manufacturers and owners of solar panel installation companies, Tesla agents, members of the greens, university scientists working on solar power and electric propulsion systems, high tech battery manufacturers, entrepreneurs who have set up companies to sell batteries, lithium miners and refiners, inner city apartment dwellers and owners, inner city located baristas and and etc.

                My research indicates that 97% of the public as listed above are fully in favour of legislation that will eliminate all fossil fueled vehicles within five years and that replacements vehicles be mandated as electric vehicles only, so as to save the planet.

                Further this literature profile of public opinion has demanded that all coal fired and gas fired power stations be closed down forthwith and that Australia only use power from renewable energy sources.

                The remaining 3% who did not agree in the literature with this overwhelming 97% of the public as listed above were from regions outside and often well removed from the city limits and were therefore just a tiny percentage “Deniers” of the realities of the future of the electric vehicles.

                In the interests of privacy all files relating to my research and its 97% of the public in favour of only electric vehicles being permitted in Australia have been sent to the Green Party’s archives for safe keeping.

                I trust I will recieve a one handed clap for my initiative in conducting this research of the literature based on reviewing techniques as developed by Skeptical Science reviewers.

                20

          • #
            Dennis

            I have not yet found even a hybrid that can tow 1,800 kg

            30

        • #
          Annie

          Sorry RR, meant green thumb, cat on my lap caused my steering to veer somewhat! (Excuses, excuses).

          10

  • #
    RickWill

    Last week was cold and wet in Melbourne but I am looking forward to some warmer weather. Hopefully early spring will bring some of the heat that the rest of the globe is experiencing. NOAA tells us:

    The July 2017 global land temperature was 1.20°C (2.16°F) above the 20th century average of 14.3°C (57.8°F) and the highest July land temperature in the 138-year record. This value surpasses the previous record set in 2016 by 0.07°C (0.13°F). The global ocean temperature was third highest on record at 0.69°C (1.24°F) above the 20th century average of 16.4°C (61.5°F), behind 2016 (+0.78°C / +1.40°F) and 2015 (+0.75°C / +1.35°F).

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201707

    The global map showing all the hot spots makes interesting reading. Australia had the highest average temperature in July since 1975. That was bound to happen when the data set has preset minimum temperatures rather than actual readings. I wonder if this form of world’s best practice homogenisation is common in other national weather monitors. It would not take too many preset minimums to produce a new record by 0.07C.

    151

    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      People are starting to get suss about the hottest evahhh when they’re freezing their butts off .

      141

    • #
      pat

      posted this on jo’s “Al Gore” thread, but feel it might have been overlooked because jo began her thread on the exploding bathroom countertop!
      posting it again for anyone who heard this program or who knows how to check this out:

      this morning on ABC’s Macca program, someone phoned in from Lismore and said it was -2C early morning there. it became a bit of a running joke because someone phoned in from Ballarat saying it was -2 when he called in. BoM seems to have a minimum of -3.4C for Ballarat at 7.17am, but the call was later than that.

      the same temp came up again for some reason, and Macca was joking it was -2 all over Australia.

      however, BoM has, if I undertand it from left column:

      BoM: Lismore, Sunday 20 August 2017
      Lowest: 3.2C 3.11am Lismore Airport
      http://www.bom.gov.au/places/nsw/lismore/

      Weatherzone also seems to have 3.2C, but they also have this piece which doesn’t mention Lismore:

      Frosty Morning for Eastern Australia
      by Joel Pippard, Sunday August 20, 2017
      Widespread frost and record breaking cold has impacted much of the east.
      Griffith in New South Wales saw its coldest August morning on record (58 year history), with the mercury dropping to -4.5 degrees. Nearby Yanco also broke their August record (18 year history) with the temperature falling to 2.0 degrees this morning.

      Mortlake in Victoria saw its coldest August morning in 20 years with -3.1 degrees while Parkes saw an 18 year August low of -5.6C.
      Many areas of VIC, NSW and Queensland had their coldest morning of any month in 2 or 3 years, including the Gold Coast (6.3C), Oakey (-3.5C), Cabramurra (-5.7C), Mount Buller (-7.8C) and Mount Hotham (-9.1C)…
      The chilly start is due to a high pressure system that moved in overnight with a cold airmass being left behind by the last cold front. With clear skies and light winds, the overnight temperature plummeted…ETC
      http://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/frosty-morning-for-eastern-australia/526733

      ***I’m pretty sure it was Lismore being discussed on radio. Macca said he’d be coming up there with his show in about a month. wondering if anyone else heard it because the man seemed to be very sure of what he was saying. I think he was a farmer.

      P.S. while I wrote ***”I’m pretty sure”, I am actually confident the caller was talking from Lismore.

      72

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        Morning Pat,
        Yesterday’s (Sunday 20th) official minimum for Mudgee airport was -5.7C, against a forecast of -5. Cold, but not a record.
        Cheers,
        Dave B

        60

    • #
      Roger

      Here we still have the Coldest July / August in England for more than 40 years ! …. with no signs or forecast of it improving in the coming week or so to get up to normal August temperatures.

      Judith Curry had a report up which showed that from 2000 – 2015 the official Central England Temperature record shows cooling of around -0.51 C.

      100

    • #
      Graeme #4

      Near Perth, The ocean temps seem to be following a similar pattern to last year, with colder water replacing the warmer June water and stretching up to the NW. Now wondering if Perth is going to experience similar spring weather as last year – i.e. colder and wetter, meaning a continuation of winter right into summer.

      50

    • #
      Raven

      The July 2017 global land temperature was 1.20°C [...] above the 20th century average[...] and the highest July land temperature in the 138-year record.

      So, if we consider the 138 year time scale, the error bars need to account for glass thermometers used 138 years ago and all the uncertainty that goes with that. Poppycock.

      Surface temperature uncertainty, quantified – Patrick Frank

      The Metrology of Thermometers

      This value surpasses the previous record set in 2016 by 0.07°C (0.13°F).

      Poppycock. No one can measure global land temperature to two significant digits.
      Comparing a single month against a 138 year record is comparing weather to climate. Absurd.

      The global ocean temperature was third highest on record [...], behind 2016[...] and 2015[...].

      So, the global ocean temperature has cooled over the last three years.
      Why not just say that?

      71

      • #
        el gordo

        Forget temperatures, look at precipitation.

        ‘Regionally, New South Wales had its driest July since 2002 and the eighth driest in the 118-year record, receiving only 29% of its July precipitation total. Meanwhile, the Northern Territory was the only region having wetter-than-average conditions. Several locations in the Northern Territory set new rainfall records for the month.’

        NOAA

        30

  • #

    Some climate activists in New Zealand have launched Trump Forest. They state.

    A campaign to plant trees to compensate for the impact of President Trump’s climate policies has 120,000 pledges.
    The project was started by campaigners upset at what they call the president’s “ignorance” on climate science.

    They further claim of Obama’s plans – that Trump has rescinded.

    If executed in its entirety the Clean Power Plan would prevent approximately 650 million tons of carbon dioxide from reaching the atmosphere over the next 8 years.

    I looked at the claim. The 650 mtCO2e potential saving cannot be supported as.
    - The non-policy forecast has emissions increasing, when in the last few years US emissions have been decreasing due to a switch from coal to cheaper shale gas.
    - The policy will increase energy costs, making the US lose manufacturing to non-policy countries. This could actually lead to a net increase in global emissions.

    Another case of climate alarmists not thinking through their proposals hence the title of my post.
    Forest Trump – stupid is as stupid does

    100

  • #
    Ruairi

    Wind-farms and solar thermal plants will prey,
    On birds of every size who fly their way.

    The public, to pay less per kilowatt hour,
    Must vote to drive the zealot Greens from power.

    Australia’s constitution has a flaw,
    When politicians wish to change the law,
    By referendum, have the flaw corrected,
    That very flaw will rule their wish rejected.

    Bad-tempered glass can have a snap eruption,
    Like children’s tantrums cause a quick disruption.

    110

  • #
    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      But John be fair and balanced please , the inside of coal powered boilers catch fire sometimes too!

      50

  • #
    RicDre

    With the UK’s new mandate banning the sale of all petrol and diesel cars starting in 2040, are you thinking about buying an electrical car? Would you like to be able to fully recharge the battery in less than the 19 hours that would be required by an average size charger? According to the National Grid’s calculations, a more powerful one like the one used to charge a Tesla S car could do it in 6 hours, just don’t plan on doing anything else requiring a high demand of electricity such as using your kettle to boil water as that would likely trip the main breaker in the average house in the UK.

    https://www.ft.com/content/852dbb54-8411-11e7-a4ce-15b2513cb3ff

    60

    • #
      Roger

      RicDre – The IVL Swedish Environmental Research report on CO2 emissions from electric car batteries (Lithium Ion) found that :

      A Tesla battery releases between 15 – 20 tonnes of CO2 during manufacture using 50% renewable energy , that is equivalent to driving a normal car for 8 years;

      Typical CO2 release is 150 kg – 200 kg per 1kWh of battery capacity.

      Taking those figures and applying to the UK with some 2.69m new vehicles a year going on the road, when the policy of only allowing electric vehicles to be sold from 2040 comes into force a simple calculation shows that in 2048 (when the average LiOn battery will need replacement)the CO2 emissions will Increase UK CO2 emissions by between 19% and 37% over 2015 levels !! That increase is purely from battery manufacture and the spread is accounting for 50% renewables in manufacture down to nil.

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        Roger

        BTW I’m still waiting for Department for Transport and DEFRA (who announced the policy) to reply to my calculations on the increase in CO2 emissions from the policy and tell me what theirs were before deciding to implement this policy.

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        Another Ian

        They’re probably calculating on the batteries being made somewhere other than UK so this can be ignored /s

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    • #
      Graeme #4

      Recharging a 75kW car battery from a house power supply that normally has to supply only 25kW over 24 hours is a big ask. If everybody wants to do this in the evening, this surely would be a huge change to our current peak loads.

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        David Maddison

        Yes. We’ll have to install more coal plant, LoL.

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          Graeme No.3

          David Maddison:
          Read the waffle from Frydenberg in today’s Australian to see the current Government’s policy. I commented (and it got through)

          The claim that Frydenberg is one of the best and brightest in the current Federal government surely illustrates why they are headed for defeat at the next election.
          Renewables are about 10% of our current supply with this government wanting to get that to 42% and Labor 50%. That 10% has resulted in our electricity prices more than doubled so how much higher does Canberra intend driving our electricity bills?
          But according to Josh the good news is that instead of another $2000 a quarter it will only be an extra $1850. Wow!

          And if one of his minders is reading this, please inform the Minister for rearranging the deck chairs that solar panels AND wind turbines don’t work if the grid doesn’t.

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            OriginalSteve

            As I’ve said before, ( and I do not condone violence in any form nor want it to occur) but I forsee that unless the govt of the day don’t stop energy price hikes like 20% we’ve had recently, people will eventually riot as they will have had enough.

            Now hopefully the govt and/ or minders take this to heart, and bear in mind there is 3 missed mortgage payments between democracy and anarchy.

            What does this mean for the powers that be? Well based on human history, people eventually get sick of being done over. Bear in mind the Australian brain space has no issue using bayonets in jungle warfare in WW2, so if we project that forward, would you want to be in a govt that has a ” let them eat cake” mentality? Stupid, IMHO.

            The last thing I would want to see is anarchy in this country, but it may happen.

            Another thought too is that as energy prices hike up, the alternative fuel tech leaps forward in a counter strike movement as effecting a counterbalance. I read recently that hydrogen fuel tech us now seriously is starting to gain headway, as people are sick if being stiffed by govts who just won’t listen.

            Now, imagine releasing that tech for free onto the net? Its close I believe..

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            • #
              Graeme No.3

              Steve;
              the electricity price rises will continue because neither the Liberals nor Labor will give up the RET. The rising costs will cause businesses to shut down in Australia, raising unemployment. Also the cost to supermarkets (and other food stores) will force food prices up. The small business sector will suffer also and more unemployment will follow.
              I expect that there will be a full blown DEPRESSION in Australia in 12 months, although our mob in Canberra may not wake up to it for another 6 months.
              The Left will resort to violence first, sensing a chance to grab power. After that? We will found out the meaning of the Chinese curse about living in interesting times.

              20

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        OriginalSteve

        Maybe, but as we know, the green push is powered by unicorns and rainbows, not solid engineering, so I’d expect it to fail big time….

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      James

      Will they subsidize diesel generators so they do not overload the grid?

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    el gordo

    ‘This scale signal that has a period of 67.7 years in the CET dataset is regarded as a harmonic of the solar cycle because of the harmonic relationship with the Hale sunspot cycle. Note that a quasi-millennial cycle could also be forced on the Sun by the rotation of the Trigon of the great conjunctions of Jupiter and Saturn. These results clearly indicate that both solar and climate oscillations are linked to planetary motion.’

    Geli Wang et al 2017

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      Will Janoschka

      There seems to be a measurable interaction between all significant masses of the Solar system. the source of this interaction seems to be a transfer of angular momentum, both rotational and orbital. This has all sorts of implications for just what gravitational attraction\compression may be and how such actually works. All that has been discovered is that somehow these bodies do not form destructive resonances. Perhaps earthling life is just to short to notice! Electric and magnetic fields may also play their part in some unknown power transfer between masses.

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    Peter C

    An Inconvenient Deception: How Al Gore Distorts Climate Science and Energy Policy by Roy Spencer

    I down loaded; “An Inconvenient Deception: How Al Gore Distorts Climate Science and Energy Policy” from Amazon yesterday and read it in a few hours. The cost was US $3.95, which is quite reasonable, especially since I can now discuss Al Gores movie, without having to go and see it. Actually seeing the movie is likely impossible now because the box office was so bad that I think it has been withdrawn. It would also cost me a whole afternoon and about A$18.

    Roy makes four main criticisms;
    Some statements are factually untrue, ie Wheat and corn production in China has decreased by 5-10% in the last year,
    Normal weather events are presented as evidence of AGW without out supporting evidence of increased severity or frequency,
    Connections between events are implied, again without evidence, eg icebergs calving from glaciers in Greenland (normal event) is juxtaposed with street flooding in Florida (also normal event), implying that one is causing the other and also that the underlying cause is CO2 emmissions by humans,
    Evidence is omitted, eg Florida is sinking.

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    Robert Rosicka

    Hello I’m Kevin from the weather Bureau here to give the foreword weather outlook .
    It’s been a long hot summer so far and winter is not looking much better in the south east of the country.
    This winter temps are expected to be very high from late November thru to March .
    Medium confidence .

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    • #
      el gordo

      Queensland is projected to get a late wintery blast this week, all the way to the GBR.

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      Lionell Griffith

      Isn’t it interesting how weather and climate forecasters get paid no matter how consistently they get it wrong. In any other profession, they would be fired and likely jailed if they didn’t get it right almost always.

      Being wrong is not a good thing. Pretending you are right even when you are wrong is worse. When you are wrong consistently and don’t change the way you do things is the worst of all.

      Imagine a surgeon planning to take out your appendix and managed to take out the liver instead. Then explained that it was OK because he was close, they were only a few inches apart, and on the same side of the body. Besides, the surgery was a success. It is inexcusable that the patient died in spite of all my good work. Oh well, better luck next time. Blank out the fact the patient doesn’t get a next time.

      Yet this is the way of modern climate science.

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    Another Ian

    “The Bloom is off the Ruse: Germany’s Angela Merkel Quietly Retreating From Paris Climate Treaty…”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/08/20/the-bloom-is-off-the-ruse-germanys-angela-merkel-quietly-retreating-from-paris-climate-treaty/#more-137454

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      Raven

      G’day, Another Ian,

      This bit from your Angela Merkel link:

      Nonetheless, Germany’s carmakers needed to compensate owners whose cars were less valuable as a result of the scandal as best as possible, she said, otherwise “the German car industry, which is admired the world over, could suffer substantial harm”.

      So, Merkel reckons the naughty German car industry need to compensate the punters because they found a loophole in her draconian emissions policy. Oh dear.

      Who remembers this classic bollocking Kerry Packer (the Goanna) gave the government enquiry into the print media.

      “Of course I am minimising my tax. And if anybody in this country doesn’t minimise their tax, they want their heads read, because as a government, I can tell you you’re not spending it that well that we should be donating extra!”

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    Bulldust

    I mentioned a few threads ago that I was trying to put together a piece to provide an overview of free speech, the net and politics (in particular postmodernism). My intent was to post it on this unthreaded page, but it is rather long, so I flicked a copy to Jo instead to see what she’d like to do. There are numerous links to Youtube presentations from classical liberal presenters (mostly), and I trust many here would find the content interesting.

    I haven’t forgotten … it’s on its way.

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    pat

    found the following on a conservative news aggregator website some Trump fans now prefer to Drudge (who doesn’t have the story up as yet, btw). check it out:

    http://thelibertydaily.com/

    it links to WaPo. hope it’s not FakeNews:

    20 Aug: The Hill: Trump disbands federal advisory panel on climate change: report
    By Julia Manchester; Timothy Cama and Brandon Carter contributed to this report.
    The Trump administration will push ahead with disbanding a federal advisory panel that reported on climate change, The Washington Post (LINK) reported Sunday.
    The move follows the leak of a draft of a major climate change report warning of rising temperatures.

    The panel — the Advisory Committee for the Sustained National Climate Assessment — is a 15-member panel made up of academics, corporate employees and local officials charged with simplifying findings from the National Climate Assessment for those inside and outside of the federal government…

    A spokeswoman for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which announced the panel would not be renewed, told the publication “this action does not impact the completion of the Fourth National Climate Assessment, which remains a key priority.”…
    The news comes as the Trump administration continues to face backlash for its policies on climate change, which many have labeled as skeptical…
    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/347269-trump-disbands-federal-advisory-panel-on-climate-change-report

    ***NOTE THE DOGMATIC HEADLINE, YET NOTHING WHATSOEVER IN THE ARTICLE TO CONFIRM HE HAS DONE SO AS YET. JUST DO IT, PRES TRUMP:

    20 Aug: WaPo: The Trump administration ***just disbanded a federal advisory committee on climate change
    by Juliet Eilperin
    The Trump administration has decided to disband the federal advisory panel for the National Climate Assessment…
    “It doesn’t seem to be the best course of action,” said Moss, an adjunct professor in the University of Maryland’s Department of Geographical Sciences, and he warned of consequences for the decisions that state and local authorities must make on a range of issues from building road projects to maintaining adequate hydropower supplies. “We’re going to be running huge risks here and possibly end up hurting the next generation’s economic prospects.”…

    Seattle Mayor Ed Murray (D) said in an interview Saturday that the move to dissolve the committee represents “an example of the president not leading, and the president stepping away from reality.” An official from Seattle Public Utilities has been serving on the panel; with its disbanding, Murray said it would now be “more difficult” for cities to participate in the climate assessment. On climate change, Trump “has left us all individually to figure it out.”…

    The committee was established in 2015, but its members were not appointed until last summer. They convened their first meeting in the fall. Moss said members of the group intend to keep working on their report, which is due out next spring, even though it now will lack the official imprimatur of the federal government. “It won’t have the same weight as if we were issuing it as a federal advisory committee,” he said…

    20 Aug: The Hill: Trump disbands federal advisory panel on climate change: report
    By Julia Manchester; Timothy Cama and Brandon Carter contributed to this report.
    The Trump administration will push ahead with disbanding a federal advisory panel that reported on climate change, The Washington Post (LINK) reported Sunday.
    The move follows the leak of a draft of a major climate change report warning of rising temperatures.

    The panel — the Advisory Committee for the Sustained National Climate Assessment — is a 15-member panel made up of academics, corporate employees and local officials charged with simplifying findings from the National Climate Assessment for those inside and outside of the federal government…

    A spokeswoman for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which announced the panel would not be renewed, told the publication “this action does not impact the completion of the Fourth National Climate Assessment, which remains a key priority.”…
    The news comes as the Trump administration continues to face backlash for its policies on climate change, which many have labeled as skeptical…
    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/347269-trump-disbands-federal-advisory-panel-on-climate-change-report

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    • #
      RickWill

      This quote could be taken two ways:

      On climate change, Trump “has left us all individually to figure it out.”…

      A sense of desperation that individuals are useless without government direction and support. Or maybe individuals need to figure out if CD is a threat or not and take action accordingly.

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      Another Ian

      Pat

      Try

      https://theconservativetreehouse.com/

      which seems to rate with Trump fans too

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    TdeF

    On defending the need to have parliamentarians who do not have de facto escape routes.

    Philip Eglishaw has been released from custody in Italy to return to the French Riviera. The person behind the multibillion tax scam which ruined Paul Hogan, saw 46 people charged and some jailed (Wheatley)]

    In Australian history many people have been able to flee the country and hide another because of dual nationality, in this case Egglishaw has British Passport and is living in France. He was arrested in Italy but Australian police could not mount charges within the statutory time, so he was released.

    Despite the insinuation that it is an absurd thing to ask that Australia politicans cannot flee to another country, it is in fact a reasonable requirement for people who say they have only our interests at heart and whose future is bound to this country. Perhaps then it is absurd that Malcolm Turnbull openly keeps his vast wealth in tax havens in the Carribbean.

    No one should sign that they do not have de facto citizenship elsewhere without checking their parents’ country first. It is hard to believe anyone with a New Zealand parent is not aware of their citizenship by descent. It has been law for nearly 70 years.

    As for Mr Xenophon, his father came here in 1951 from Cyprus. The year before some 400 British soldiers were shot by terrorists. As with so many places after the war, there was plenty of reason to leave for a 20 year old. So the question is whether Xenophon’s father was British, Greek or Turkish. That is not for the people of Australia to check but something professional lawyer Xenophon should have known when he signed.

    Pauline Hanson paid back the $250,000 her party was given to help with the election, despite not having enough members when she signed. She went to jail. How many of these poor politicians are going to pay back salaries of between $250,000 to $350,000 a year for a false declaration which carries a one year jail sentence? We are talking of tens of millions of dollars.

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    pat

    update to the replies to RickWill, comment #11, re Lismore.

    am posting the Lismore temperature as heard on ABC, not to suggest it was a record, but because i thought i would find it on BoM and was surprised at how completely different it was to what the caller stated. am hoping some of the sleuths who visit jo’s website will investigate.

    I have found the audio:

    1hr08min in: Macca going out after the show to collect sticks for a fire, because you are allowed to do that after big winds, and electricity is so dear, a lot of people are having open fires. he thinks that’s the story.
    Caller Malcolm in Lismore for heart surgery. has been in colder climes, at Veterans Retreat in Snowy Mts when it was minus 14, e.g.; but he went out this morning, as he usually does, and it is minus 2 in Keen Street in Lismore.
    walked outside, did a check on the temperature and went back to bed. coldest morning he’s ever suffered in Lismore, which usually gets to about 1 or 2, but to get to minus 2 is something new.

    AUDIO: 4hrs30mins: 20 Aug: Macca: Australia All Over
    http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/australiaallover/australia-all-over/8802594

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  • #
    Dave

    Just noticed in South Australia:
    They’re using between 20 to 30 MW of OTHER power

    Would this be Diesel gensets?
    http://www.nem-watch.info/widgets/RenewEconomy/

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    • #

      Dave,

      and you’ll need to do this now. (and while the time clock here at Joanne’s site is awry, my time here right now is around 11.45AM Monday)

      Go to this link, the AEMO NEM Dispatch Overview.

      Note the Blue boxes for each State, but what I want you to look at here are the grey boxes between each State, and in the case of Queensland, those boxes are red as both interconnectors are maxed out.

      They are the Interconnectors between each of the States.

      Note how Qld is feeding (around) 1100MW into NSW, and that would be Northern NSW.

      Southern NSW is feeding power into Victoria.

      Tasmania is feeding its Hydro into Victoria.

      SouthAus is feeding some of its excess wind into Victoria also.

      In those dark blue State boxes, you’ll see the Demand (consumption) the Generation, and Wind and Other.

      See the delicate balance of power interchange between the States, and the juggling job which needs to be done, virtually minute by minute to keep the power levels for each State at just more than demand.

      Note here that rooftop solar does not even figure into the equation.

      Also, in each dark blue box is the current cost per MWH, and note the State with the cheapest power, and that’s Queensland. See that Generation total for Qld, well around 6300MW of that is coal fired power. (94%)

      Tony.

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        Dave

        Thanks Tony

        Very good link, but what I was asking, on this site the power is listed for South Australia as
        Gas Other Wind and Solar listed as the only 4 types producing electricity being generated there!

        I was wondering what fuel source is this OTHER sitting at 29MW?
        http://www.nem-watch.info/widgets/RenewEconomy/

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        Peter C

        I had a look at that and the energy flows are much the same now at 6pm.

        QLD $121.41
        NSW $134.12
        VIC $135 63
        SA $132.22
        TAS $124.79

        Net importers were MSW and VIC. Net exporters were QLD, Tas and SA.

        The states which generate more power than they need have the cheapest prices. What has happened in Vic where we used to be the source of power for other states and had the cheapest prices.

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      • #
        Robber

        Tony, a question without notice for you. In recent times it appears that AEMO is scheduling gas generation in SA ahead of coal in Vic/NSW? For example, midday on Tues, SA wind 157, gas 1220, with only 25 imports from Vic. However, Vic is sending NSW 488 and Qld is sending NSW 1070 (max allowed). From my recollection, when SA was short of wind there were usually large imports from Vic. Has SA gas become lower cost, or is the SA government exerting some influence?

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  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    BOM have recorded Sunday’s min temp at -2.3 for Wangaratta, it’s been highlighted in blue which I take to mean it’s outside the range of what’s allowable for winter , it gets bloody cold here in winter and I’m sure we get temps this low most winters .

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    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      Didn’t realise how confusing temp checking can be , I checked the other weather recording sites such as weatherzone and Elders etc they all seem to have a different set of temps for Sunday in Wangaratta .
      3 is an average min overnight temp for August so that explains why the -2.3 on Sunday came up in blue , although we have had much lower temps recorded previous years .

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    pat

    ***TonyfromOz mentioned by Rowan Dean in this Spectator leading article. Dean was on Alan Jones show this morning talking about the article, which is how I know he is the author (not attributed on the page below):

    19 Aug: Spectator: Frazzled
    by Rowan Dean
    Soon it will be raining barbequed chook in Port Augusta, thanks to the latest madcap scheme by the Turnbull and Weatherill governments to generate massively over-priced electricity for that blighted state. Well, if not barbequed chook then at least Frazzled Crested Pigeons and Incinerated Spiny-cheeked Honeyeaters will be on the menu as they start dropping out of the South Australian skies in their thousands. Not, of course, that any flora- and fauna-loving Greens or socialist eco-warriors will give a damn, because this latest desperate scheme – brought to us by those wonderfully innovative minds that also promise us water that flows uphill in the Snowy Mountains and Elon Musk’s giant car battery as cunning ways to solve our energy crisis – is all done in the name of ‘tackling catastrophic climate change’.

    South Australia already has the world’s highest electricity prices, driving big businesses out of the state (overseas, mainly) as well as crippling small businesses and everyday households. But it’s likely to get a lot more expensive, thanks to the South Australian government committing to a twenty year deal whereby all government energy will be supplied by Port Augusta’s shiny new desal, er, sorry, we mean solar thermal power plant.

    Destined in all likelihood to be yet another climate change white elephant along with all those idle desalination plants that blot our coastlines, this $650 million brain-snap looks like something out of a 1970’s James Bond film…

    ***According to Australian commentator Anton Lang, it takes Spain’s entire network of 24 solar thermal plants an entire year to deliver what one typical coal fired power generator – of the sort we used to have in abundance in Australia until we recklessly started blowing them up – can deliver in around three months. Not exactly reassuring…READ ALL
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/08/frazzled/

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    pat

    Rowan Dean on solar thermal power plant begins 2mins54secs in:

    AUDIO: 14mins43secs: Alan Jones Show: Rowan Dean
    Alan talks to the editor of The Spectator about solar thermal power.
    http://www.4bc.com.au/podcast/rowan-dean-2/

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    pat

    21 Aug: ABC: Snow blankets Trentham, parts of central Victoria as Melbourne shivers through wintry conditions
    By Stephanie Chalkley-Rhoden
    Snow has blanketed parts of central Victoria this morning as cold, wintry conditions end any hope of an early spring for Melbourne…

    Tom Delamotte from the Bureau of Meteorology said the snow would likely lift and turn into rain by lunchtime.
    “We had clear skies on Sunday so we had quite a bit of cooling, and the cloud moved over during late evening and thickened up early in the morning,” he said.
    “With the cold temperatures that are around, we’ll see snow falling to around 800 metres, maybe a touch lower.
    “There was a bit of snow on Saturday as well. Certainly isn’t uncommon for this time of year but it generally doesn’t hang around too long.
    “It’s just lucky the conditions lined up with the right time of day.”

    Cold conditions to continue for Melbourne…
    (Delamotte) said last week’s mild mornings and sunshine were just a teaser, with no early spring in sight…
    “We’re going back to average conditions this week in Victoria,” he said.
    “It doesn’t look like there’s any significant milder or warmer weather in the near future.”…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-21/snow-trentham-central-victoria-wintry-melbourne-weather/8825960

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  • #
    pat

    comment in moderation re “21 Aug: ABC: Snow blankets Trentham, parts of central Victoria as Melbourne shivers through wintry conditions”

    on ABC’s Just In page, the the orginal headline appears to have been:

    ‘Proper snow’ falls in central Victoria as Melbourne shivers
    By Stephanie Chalkley-Rhoden
    Posted about 2 hours ago | Updated about 2 hours ago

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    pat

    a must-read for temp-watchers. BoM respond to Jacqui’s “warmer” comment, but not her personal view May has become colder:

    21 Aug: ABC: Has Canberra’s weather changed according to Bureau of Meteorology records?
    By Aarti Betigeri
    Lifelong Canberra resident Jacqui White strongly suspects that spring and autumn are both blowing in earlier than they did in the past.
    She asked Curious Canberra: “I wanted to know if the weather has changed noticeably in the last few decades according to the Bureau of Meteorology?”
    “When I was younger I recall [it] being quite warm in May whereas recently it seems to have been ***really cold in May and the opposite in August.”

    We get a lot of questions about the weather, so we decided to take Jacqui’s query on…

    To investigate whether the seasons are speeding up, I first took to the Capital Regions Farmers Market in Watson, to ask stallholders what they think.
    On the topic of weather, they had mixed reports.
    “We have seen a drop in rainfall … it has been getting a little bit colder,” said Wilson, a mushroom farmer from Murrumbateman…

    Here’s what the BOM found
    To answer Jacqui’s question, I turned to Bureau of Meteorology climatologist Joel Lisonbee.
    He came up with a few ways to measure whether things are changing…

    “In Canberra, we don’t have a consistent record of minimum temperatures.”…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/specials/curious-canberra/2017-08-21/has-canberras-weather-changed/8806902

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    pat

    Jim Rickards mentions Australia.
    brw I hear people in the media making out it’s a great idea blah blah, even tho they go on about the young don’t know the the value of money because they buy everything on credit. how true.

    I’m with the Germans:

    16 Aug: Daily Reckoning: James Rickards: Why Elites Are Winning the War on Cash
    Visa recently unveiled its own offensive in the war on cash. Visa is offering certain merchants a $10,000 reward if they refuse to accept cash in the future.

    Not surprisingly, Visa’s competitor is also part of the war on cash. Mastercard is increasing its efforts to encourage merchants to refuse cash. Here’s Bloomberg, quoting the CEO of Mastercard…ETC

    Notably, Germans are the most resistant to going cashless. Almost 80% of transactions in Germany are done in cash, and many Germans never use credit cards.
    The German experience with hyperinflation after WWI and additional monetary chaos after WWII certainly plays a part in this resistance to the cashless society.
    Incidentally, the German word for debt, schuld, also means guilt…READ ALL
    https://dailyreckoning.com/elites-winning-war-cash/

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  • #
    pat

    why did I start the Rickards comment with “brw”? lol.
    of course, it should be “btw”.

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  • #
    pat

    20 Aug: Fox News: Pennsylvania coal company to open second mine since Trump took office
    Fox News’ Leland Vittert and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
    The chief executive of Pennsylvania-based Corsa Coal Corp. said Sunday the company is opening a second coal mine since President Trump took office, declaring “the war on coal is over” and attributing the growth to the president’s economic policies.
    “I think it’s a direct link,” company CEO George Dethlefsen told Fox News, pointing specifically to Trump’s efforts to deregulate the U.S. economy and a “very strong market” for steel.

    “The steel industry is undergoing a real Renaissance,” he said.
    Dethlefsen also said the Trump administration’s plans to improve the country’s infrastructure and tax code should further help the U.S. economy…
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/20/pennsylvania-coal-company-to-open-second-mine-since-trump-took-office.html

    ABC?

    21 Aug: ABC: Coal mining and food peacefully co-exist in ‘very Mudgee marriage’
    ABC Central West By Melanie Pearce
    Mudgee has recently been voted number one in Australia as a top spot for food and wine, according to a survey of visitors to travel site, Booking.com…
    While it is less visible, mining also plays a huge part in making Mudgee what it is — and is the single biggest employer in town…

    Mudgee’s foodie fame means accommodation and food services have a total annual output of around $123 million, employing nearly 9 per cent of the town’s workforce.
    The town’s annual tourism output is $143 million and employs about 8 per cent of the working population.
    But few tourists know that right on Mudgee’s doorstep, three major coal mines operate worth around $1.3 billion a year and employing 1,400 people — or more than 15 per cent of the town’s workforce…

    Ms Hooper agrees the marriage analogy works well in terms of describing how the two industries co-exist in Mudgee.
    “I think they sit well beside each other. The coal mines bring a lot of money into the town, which is good for a small country town … to have something else as well as just agriculture,” Ms Hooper said…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-21/very-mudgee-marriage-as-coal-mining-and-culinary-coexist/8791412

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    pat

    plenty of misinfo & CAGW propaganda between the excerpts, but the following is worth noting:

    20 Aug: The National, UAE: The strange rise of coal in the Middle East
    Fuel’s rise comes as other areas of energy mix lag
    by Robin M. Mills
    (Robin M. Mills is CEO of Qamar Energy, and author of The Myth of the Oil Crisis)
    Dubai’s solar successes have made the headlines, but a different kind of electricity generation is rising at Hassyan, on the coast beyond the site for Expo 2020. In November, a consortium of Saudi Arabia’s Acwa Power and China’s Harbin Electric began building a 2.4 gigawatt coal power plant on the site.

    The UAE’s energy strategy states coal will account for 12 per cent of the total national electricity generation by 2050, which translates into about 11.2GW. Beyond Dubai, Federal Electricity and Water Authority (Fewa) has planned a 1.8GW plant in the northern emirates, but it is not clear where the additional 7GW is expected to come from.

    Egypt has imported coal since 2014 for industrial use, and North Africa’s most populous nation is planning to build a number of large-scale coal-fired power plants with Chinese investors. Abu Dhabi-based Al Nowais Investments Group, in 2014, also signed a deal for a 1.32 GW coal-fired plant on the Gulf of Suez.

    Iran, which witnessed a coal mine blast in Golestan province in May in which more than 20 miners died, is pushing ahead with planned coal power plants, mostly in the coal-rich area of Tabas in the east, with Chinese involvement. Turkey, which already generates more than 16GW of power through coal, plans to build additional plants

    Jordan, whose energy strategy targets 5 per cent of power generation through coal by 2025, last June signed a deal for a small coal-fired plant, while Oman is looking to build coal-fired plant at its new port development of Duqm.

    In a region rich with oil, gas and solar power, but very few coal resources, this surge is surprising…
    The Middle Eastern countries that are looking at coal are trying to diversify their fuel mix, and to reduce vulnerability to economic or supply shocks…

    Despite gas prices being low at the moment, coal is cheaper still — at least once the required import facilities are constructed. Chinese power and engineering companies, looking for other markets, are offering their expertise and low-cost financing.

    Most of these plants will be built with modern pollution controls, that trap sulphur dioxide, particulates, mercury and other toxic and acidic emissions…
    https://www.thenational.ae/business/energy/the-strange-rise-of-coal-in-the-middle-east-1.621296

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  • #
    pat

    21 Aug: Townsville Bulletin: Powerlink investigates North Queensland Clean Energy Hub
    by TONY RAGGATT
    POWERLINK is investigating plans to connect up to 2000 megawatts of renewable projects which could see North Queensland become an exporter of wind and solar power.
    The State Government has announced plans to connect renewable projects in Cairns, Forsayth, Kidston, Hughenden and Townsville, while Powerlink has called for expressions of interest from other potential renewable and storage proponents as well as potential major new loads.

    A spokeswoman for the Treasurer and acting Energy Minister Curtis Pitt said increased large-scale renewable energy capacity would put downward pressure on wholesale prices.
    The spokeswoman said there were 20 renewable energy projects financially committed or under construction in Queensland, injecting $3.4 billion of investment and over 2700 construction jobs.
    “A new coal-fired power station is not needed in Queensland,” the spokeswoman said.
    “We already have ample existing traditional baseload generation.

    “Even the federal Treasurer Scott Morrison has conceded that ‘new cheap coal is a bit of a myth’.
    “The idea of constructing a new coal-fired power station has been criticised by industry and energy experts alike because it is unbankable and would lock in higher greenhouse emissions.”

    The LNP’s energy spokesman Michael Hart said Labor was copying South Australia’s mistakes.
    “It’s clear Labor is desperately scrambling to counter the LNP’s policy to support a coal-fired power station in North Queensland,” Mr Hart said.
    “Only a coal-fired power station will provide affordable baseload electricity for North Queensland families, small business and industry.
    “Annastacia Palaszczuk is copying South Australia’s energy policy that has led to blackouts and the highest electricity prices in the world.”
    http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/news/powerlink-investigates-north-queensland-clean-energy-hub/news-story/823e4b55bc260dc200141d0ef4d60266

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  • #

    Garhwal is significant for many sources of rivers.

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  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    Is it just me or do some of these warmest evvaahhh temps seem a little on the yeah right BOM your making stuff up again side ?

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-21/2017-dry-season-disappearing-fast-in-the-northern-territory/8828174

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  • #
    TedM

    We have un-threaded, the alarmists have unhinged.

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  • #
    Dennis

    It was “hot” here on the midcoast NSW 48 hours ago, and “baking hot” northern Australia.

    LOL

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    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      Send some of it to Victoriastan it’s colder than a witches you know what .

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      • #
        Dennis

        Cold as here since last week’s CH9 nonsense weather comments

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        • #
          Robert Rosicka

          I’ve got about three days worth of wood left and the season doesn’t open till next month , wish we still had the bulk briquette place in town , cheap great heat and hey it’s coal .

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  • #
    Dennis

    Please leave the BoM to get on with business.

    Management explained in 2015 that “errors and omissions” distorted their climate change reports, weather based.

    And now they have problems with weather stations.

    [sarc]

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  • #
    pat

    theirABC flogging electic cars!

    21 Aug: ABC: Electric cars: Can they go the distance on vast Australian roads?
    ABC South West WA By Clare Negus
    Australians appear sceptical of electric cars and hesitant to break up with their beloved and trusted petrol or diesel-fuelled engines.
    While electric cars are becoming more popular in China, Europe and the US, they have had a slow start in Australia, with only a couple of hundred sold in recent years.

    An ABC crew has test driven a Tesla Model S electric car on Western Australia’s so-called Electric Highway from Perth to Augusta (315km) to try and answer the question: can they really go the distance on our vast regional roads without running out of juice?
    The answer is yes…

    The new electric cars are expected to be able to do longer distances and cost less.

    But whether that will be enough to win over Australia’s petrol heads remains to be seen…READ ALL
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-21/can-electric-cars-go-the-distance-on-aussie-roads/8827926

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      Robert Rosicka

      Yeah I read it , more dribble , Perth to Broome hey and only half an hour to charge using the same power as an electric kettle .

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    Greg

    Australians may not be as aware but the US is having a total eclipse today, lots of hype. The link below was actually included in the science section of a magazine. (It discusses how either the sun, moon, or both are racist because the path of the eclipse only passes through mostly white states)

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/08/american-totality-eclipse-race/537318/#article-comments

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  • #
    Mark M

    Coupla ‘spacey” links:

    Chinese quantum satellite sends ‘unbreakable’ code…

    Chinese scientists have become the first to realize quantum key distribution from a satellite to the ground, laying the foundation for building a hack-proof global quantum communication network.

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-08/10/c_136514705.htm
    . . .
    From the edge of the solar system, Voyager probes are still talking to Australia after 40 years

    https://phys.org/news/2017-08-edge-solar-voyager-probes-australia.html

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    el gordo

    Throughout the hiatus India became warmer and wetter, with more robust monsoons, while the Indian Ocean cooled.

    http://indianewengland.com/2017/08/50-year-dry-spell-reverses-indian-monsoons-strengthened-past-15-years/

    10