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Global warming may cause moose to freeze

Tragic news about moose today — the climate used to be the same for 65 million years, so moose are unprepared to deal with the sudden extra degree on the modern Earth-Perfect-Thermostat.

JACKSON, Wyo. – Global warming might cause moose to freeze to death in Yellowstone National Park.

Don’t cry. Moose are declining:

The reason for the decline is complicated. Wolves have taken moose, and grizzly bears have been expanding their presence.

But climate could be the biggest challenge. Part of the problem is ticks. A moose with too many of the parasites during the winter can lose its hair and freeze to death.

We all know, before Columbus there was one perfect quota of moose, bear, wolf. The numbers didn’t vary from the sacred Gaia Triangle Ratio (whatever it was). There were no cycles. Moose never declined. Then man came, used air conditioners in Florida, caused tick outbreaks in Saskatoon, and da fur fell off doz’ mooses. Cold moose!

In general, moose are simply better adapted to colder temperatures. When it’s too warm, they spend more time in the shade trying to cool down and less time feeding, Courtemanch said.

You might have thought fur-free moose might like warmer weather. They just can’t win eh?

“The warmer winters and warmer summers are incredibly stressful to them,” she said. “They’re so heat-stressed all the time. It cascades into poor body condition for females, and that impacts their ability to have a calf. They are so stressed they can’t put on enough weight every year.”

Sounds like da stressed mooses need psychotherapy. If we stopped trying to buy nice weather with solar and wind we could afford a psychotherapist for every mother moose. Stop a windfarm, save a moose!

/sarc

——————————————————————-

What are these people on? Moose survived 60,000 years of climate change

Moose struggled through ice-ages and a holocene optimum when the arctic was so warm there was no sea-ice for thousands of years. I did a long 0.89 second search for “evolution of the moose” and the first paper that turns up tells us that moose have been squeezed through population bottlenecks many times and are noted for their ability to adapt to a changing environment.

One day, news outlets may teach writers to use google.

Hundertmark and Bowyer, 2004:

Early studies of genetic variation in moose (Alces alces) indicated little variation. Recent studies have indicated higher levels of variation in nuclear markers; nonetheless, genetic heterogeneity of moose is relatively low compared with other mammals. Similarly, variation in mitochondrial DNA of moose is limited worldwide, indicating low historic effective population size and a common ancestry for moose within the last 60,000 years. That ancestor most likely lived in central Asia. Moose likely exhibit low levels of heterogeneity because of population bottlenecks in the late Pleistocene caused by latitudinal shifts in habitat from recurrent climate reversals. A northward movement of boreal forest associated with the end of the last ice age facilitated the northward advance of Asian populations and colonization of the New World, which occurred as a single entry by relatively few moose immediately prior to the last flooding of the Bering land bridge. Despite suffering serial population bottlenecks historically, moose have exhibited a notable ability to adapt to a changing environment, indicating that limited neutral genetic variation may not indicate limited adaptive genetic variation. We conclude that morphological variation among moose worldwide occurred within a few thousand years and indicates that moose underwent episodes of rapid and occasionally convergent evolution. Genetic change in moose populations over very short time scales (tens or hundreds of years) is possible under harvest management regimes and those changes may not be beneficial to moose in the long term. Modeling exercises have demonstrated that harvest strategies can have negative consequences on neutral genetic variation as well as alleles underpinning fitness traits. Biologists should consider such outcomes when evaluating management options.

We also see that despite a small starter population and little genetic variation somehow evolution still finds the tools to deal with massive climate changes and environmental shifts.

h/t Willie :- )

REFERENCE

Hundertmark, KJ, R Bowyer, T (2004)  Genetics, evolution, and phylogeography of moose, Alces. vol 40, pp103-122.

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212 comments to Global warming may cause moose to freeze

  • #
    James in Perth

    The “Gaia Triangle Ratio”? I thought it was “Gaia’s Golden Ratio”!

    Well, it’s unfortunate that the moose population has limits and in particular that those limits are met in Yellowstone Park. Definitely NOT good for business.

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  • #
    Stuart Elliot

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E–2l-N5U2I

    “Gotta get me moose” by Buddy Wasisname & the Other Fellers

    72

  • #
    Owen Morgan

    Sunt item, quae appellantur alces. (There are also things called “elks”).

    Thus begins one of the most surreal passages in Classical literature, Book VI, Chapter 27 of Julius Caesar’s Gallic War, which is all about elks, i.e. moose, or mooses, or meese. Endeavouring to persuade his readers just how weird Germany is, even before the invention of Lederhosen, Caesar describes the elk as similar in shape to a goat, but “a little bigger“, which is one way of putting it. They also, he assures us, have no joints in their legs, so that, when tired, they simply find a tree trunk against which to lean.

    The dastardly Germans somehow calculate where the elks are likely to take their rest and saw almost all the way through the trees. When the sleepy moose leans against the trunk, the tree collapses, along with the poor creature, now incapable of getting up again, at which point it becomes Elkwurst.

    On the other hand, European elks survived the Roman Warm Period and at least part of the German elk population seems to have survived the Mediaeval Warm Period, too. Their disappearance south of the Baltic plainly has no direct connection to climate.

    223

  • #
    Yonniestone

    The only thing climate change® has altered is the increase in creative scientific writing.

    213

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    I’m told moose is good to eat so if anyone finds a frozen one and can’t figure out anything else to do with it, send it my way and I’ll stock my freezer with moose steaks.

    End of problem. And the first paragraph shouldn’t be necessary since the problem is a non problem in the first place.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      As opposed to mis steaks. Something I already have accumulated too many of. ;-)

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      • #
        Yonniestone

        Holy cow that’s a lot of bull right there! :)

        142

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Whoever you are you have a heavy finger on the red thumb button these days. A guy can’t even crack a joke without being disapproved of. Don’t you know a little humor now and then is good for you? You really should try it. You might like it.

        And by the way, what did you expect from something as silly as moose will freeze because of global warming?

        We don’t even bite, except maybe moose steaks. So come on now, lighten up a bit! :-)

        161

        • #
          AndyG55

          yep.. pretty funny… I already have two red thumbs for…

          “Oh.. I weep for Bullwinkle !

          Rocky to the rescue.”

          122

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      I quite like cold moose when the weather is hot – particularly chocolate moose.

      162

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Reminds me of the Muppet Show…Chocolate moose with Swedish Chef…..bork bork bork!

        As to red thumb guy – the correct term is RRTG – Random Red Thumb Guy….or girl…or…whatever…. there is no rhyme nor reason to the red being sprayed around, its probably just a hobby….

        61

      • #
        Dave

        Rereke

        Chocolate Moose
        This got me thinking on the evolution of plurals!

        Moose Moose
        Mice Mouse
        Goose Geese
        Mousse Mousses
        Fish Fish
        Baby Twins

        Is this relevant or has it relevance?

        Octopus Octopi
        Pegasus Pegasi

        The list goes on!

        Is the plural of Evolution – Evolutionii? Best ask an Expert!

        Ehhee

        30

    • #
      Mari C

      Moose is good. Makes a great stew, an ok roast but the steaks are (in my opinion) a bit dry. I’ve had it a few times (I know happy hunters)(they are clean-up-after-themselves-hunters – no manly messes left in the open) and while I like it, I prefer venison.

      Deer ticks have been moving east as the tree cover was removed to make way for farms (deer food!) and eventually suburbia (more deer food!) and I hear -those- ticks do ravage the moose populations – I think Lyme disease spread has done a bit of work too. But having heard tales of moose hunting, those large gawky things do just fine in Canadian summers (which can be hot)(and full of the evil black fly, biter from hell) and – until the white-tail deer over-abundance, along with their nasty lyme-filled ticks – were holding their own.

      Moose don’t like open fields full of corn and wheat – they like swampy areas. Which we’ve drained to remove the skeeter breeding grounds. Yosemite moose are adapted to the extremes of temperature there, and if they are dying off, blame the white-tail deer and their ticks, or dudes with shotguns. As long as they have some cold water to stand in, some trees to scratch their itches on, and plenty of food, they are fine.

      Oh, and PS – too many deer and moose and other herbivores tend to strip the land of food long before winter. Bears and wolves and the occasional dude with a rifle and good aim does wonders for allowing enough fodder to get a healthy herd through the winter. Even out in Yosemite, Yellowstone, and the forested swamps of Canada.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        A long time ago in a childhood far far away, my grandfather belonged to the local Moose Club. He took my father and me to a dinner meeting at which they were serving moose stew. I found it a little too strong for my taste then and haven’t had a chance to try it again since. But your recommendation is intriguing so I wish someone would hurry up and find one of those frozen moose for me. They don’t seem to live around here for some reason in spite of this being a warmer place where they could easily avoid freezing.

        41

        • #
          Rod Stuart

          In Northern Ontario, up around Moose Factory, it is not uncommon to see a bull moose swimming across a lake.
          There are Indians that live up there, and a right of passage for a teenage lad is to approach one of these swimming bulls in a canoe with a mate, and climb onto the animal’s neck.
          The moose is rather helpless in deep water, and merely continues to swim to the opposite shore.
          The trick is have your mate bring the canoe along side again before the shallows, where the moose can get some traction, and climb back into the canoe.
          A moose ride gone wrong is sometimes fatal.

          20

    • #
      Mark D.

      I’m told moose is good to eat….

      Not just good, Delicious!

      41

    • #
      Annie

      Moose steaks followed by cold mousse sounds ok to me.

      22

    • #
      Allen Ford

      As Homer Simpson may once have said, “Mmmm, chocolate moose, is there anything it can’t do?”

      20

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        But there are no antlers on that chocolate moose. What happened that it could go so wrong?

        Poor Homer never was very swift about much of anything. ;-)

        10

  • #
    Pathway

    The only thing harming moose in Yellowstone is out of control wolves.

    144

    • #
      Analitik

      Yep. Especially as there weren’t any since the 1920′s until being reintrodced in 1995

      http://www.yellowstonepark.com/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem/

      Interesting how they helped the beaver population and the Aspen pines (probably by culling elk and moose numbers)

      http://www.yellowstonepark.com/wolves-bring-yellowstone-back/

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    • #
      David Maddison

      I always understood that as well. I thought the numbers of various herbivores were out of control because wolves were made extinct by government policy but Canadian wolves (which were thought to be genetically similar to the extinct ones) were introduced into Yellowstone to restore balance to the ecosystem.

      The reintroduction of wolves caused what is known as a “trophic cascade” where there were major positive effects on the rest of the ecosystem. The trophic cascade in Yellowstone is nicely explained in this 4 min 34 sec video. https://youtu.be/ysa5OBhXz-Q

      I am surprised that “climate change” and not the restoration of the natural order was blamed. I thought it was common knowledge what happened in Yellowstone. I knew it and live in Australia.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        David,

        Some of you in Oz easily qualify as honorary citizens of the United States simply because you take enough interest in the world around you to read and study what’s going on. If as many of our lefthanded population knew what their country is all about as well as you do this would be a different world.

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        • #
          David Maddison

          Thanks Roy, I am flattered…

          42

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          I think many people around the world like america and americans….its history is one us “colonials” ( as the brits call us ) can also relate to….

          50

        • #
          bobl

          I guess we antipodeans share some ideals with the USA, like freedom, liberty and justice for all. Though I do remember Clinton (WJ) once saying that the American democracy was the bright example the world must follow. Now ignoring the fact that America is not a democracy and is a Republic, at the time I remember thinking that if Bill’s USA is the example, I might just stay in Australia where we have very few of the very serious problems of the USA. Of course that was back when we had $40 Bn in the bank for Rudd to waste.

          Having said that there are some fixes that the states could apply, one is to make the president answerable to parliament the way the PM is in westminster democracies. The view is that the representatives of the people, IE the Parliament should have the ultimate authority rather than a single Partisan Person who by definition cannot represent all the people.

          In the USA the problem is simply that the partisan president is too difficult to bring to heel by the people. A simple Majority in a joint sitting of the senate and congress should be sufficient to remove an errant President. Remove the veto power and shift it to the Senate (as in bicameral westminster democracies) Doing that would mean that parties would have to put up much less partisan candidates that are capable of governing for all Americans. I think its an absolute scandal that it takes a 2/3rds majority to override a veto. How does that serve the will of the people, no a majority vote in a joint sitting of the senate and congress should suffice. It would also remove the means by which the president gets to legislate (veto) – A single person should never be allowed to legislate (originate legislation) – this permits totalitarianism, ruling with a pen and a phone.

          The USA is at grave risk of a totalitarian emerging because there is so much concentration of power in the President.

          The USA’s system is OK, but in some ways the ease at which westminster democracies can remove the PM or even the ruling party by a simple majority vote of no confidence makes for more reasonable governance.

          40

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Bob,

            I hear your concerns about a Republic and my country. However, one of the things I like about our government is that there can’t be the kind of surprises that suddenly yanked Tony Abbott right out from under you down there in Australia. Usually — emphasis on usually — the pace of change here is slow enough that we’ve avoided a lot of mistakes. But when those at the top decide not to follow the rules there’s nothing we can count on anymore, either here or in Oz. When the law makers and law enforcers fail to follow the law then there is no law.

            So sorry to disagree with you on that point. But the truth really is that there’s no perfect form of government. Anything even close to democratic is very messy and sometimes very ugly. The problem is, any other form of government is even worse.

            If I could start over and write the constitution from scratch I would change the total lack of any real accountability of the president and the Supreme Court. But I would still like it to be a process that couldn’t result in the kind of coup that tossed out Tony Abbott.

            Fat chance I’ll ever have of doing that, of course.

            21

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              At the moment I can’t remember who said it but I think it was Benjamin Franklin — something about the constitution being suitable for governing a moral people but if they were no longer moral nothing could govern them except a dictator imposing his will by force. And we have been slipping down the mountainside away from moral down to amoral and immoral for a long time now. And maybe we were never as high up on that mountain as we tried to tell ourselves we were.

              20

              • #
                ivan

                Roy, didn’t that slide start with the politicians?

                A very common statement here in Europe is that America has the best government money can buy and the problems only started when those politicians didn’t stay bought.

                10

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                Ivan,

                Not being a professional historian and having realized the value of understanding history late in my life, I can only give you the view as I see it. So…

                As I look around at government I see a lot of problems with honesty everywhere. Certainly our history here has been full of bad examples, one of which is completely ethical and legal, that of the late Senator Robert Bird of West Virginia who openly boasted that he was in the Senate to send as much money as possible to West Virginia. And it’s quite legitimate for him to look out for the welfare of his state. That’s why we send people to the Senate and the House in the first place. But Bird went far beyond that by forcing whole government offices to move from DC (and elsewhere) to West Virginia. He simply attached provisions to important bills that had nothing to do with the purpose of the bill and others had to support him in that because they needed his vote and support for the bills that were important to them. He was gaming the seniority system quite literally. And he was able to do this, what I will call abuse of the power of his office because the people of West Virginia kept electing him and the senate, which like most organizations we humans put together, runs on seniority, the longer you’re there the more power you have. And I suspect the citizens of West Virginia liked the windfall Bird delivered for them and kept reelecting him for that reason.

                So now we’re confronted with the question — in a system where you can vote for those who will govern you and something like I just described is going on, who is responsible? And I have to say both Bird and the voters. I could note that the Senate could have easily enacted term limits and solved at least a big part of this problem but they had no incentive to do so, did they? And the voters of West Virginia had no incentive to support such a move either.

                You can easily see this kind of thing causing unethical and illegal activity as well. Self interest is something we humans dare not abandon because someone else will always eat our lunch or mop up the floor with us if we do. It’s a matter of survival, whether to keep food on the table or to keep the income that supports your Mercedes Benz and house with a 4 car garage.

                I suspect this kind of thing was not as bad years ago because we held some good standards and society made a good effort at enforcing them. Read THE SCARLET LETTER and contrast what would happen to Hester Prynne today and you’ll understand what I mean. Today she would get an additional welfare check for each new child born to her, husband or not. And we’re all responsible for this to some extent, maybe some more than others but in the end we have let our standards go downhill and we follow whether we would or not.

                Bird played a mean bluegrass fiddle by the way. I suspect he could have gotten along as the leader of a bluegrass band with the skill he had and done quite well. But when he grew up the music was what everyone did for their own entertainment, not as a profession. There was a jam session somewhere on a Saturday night and everyone for miles around showed up, not so much to listen as to participate. The music was about the conditions in which they lived and lamented hard times more often than not and was from the heart. It provided much needed relief from a hard life and that kind of music is the best of the best.

                Historically, West Virginia was a relatively poor rural state state in spite of it’s natural resources which managed to be collected into the hands of, for instance, coal mining interests with most of the people working for the mining company. So there was more than enough incentive to keep Bird in the Senate. And interestingly, it was once part of Virginia and the split happened over the civil war. The two were never reunited.

                Coal, a big industry and employer in West Virginia is a big bone of contention in today’s politics as you can easily imagine knowing even a little about Obama.

                Loretta Lynn’s excellent auto biography, COAL MINER’S DAUGHTER, is an excellent background reference if you’re interested and haven’t already read it, even though she was born in Kentucky, not West Virginia.

                And that, as I see it, is how the dishonesty gets started every time. It’s not always that simple but that’s a good example that I know and can relate. And it’s also probably more than you ever wanted to know and should have been afraid task. ;-) So I’ll quit with an apology for the length and any mistakes I’ve made explaining it.

                40

              • #
                Mark D.

                Ivan, I have to be less polite than Roy here. Where do people in Europe give examples so that they can claim better than what the Constitution provides?

                10

      • #
        Annie

        Hi David M. Just earlier today I was reading the bit in Michael Crichton’s book ‘State of Fear’ about the history of Yellowstone Park. Very interesting. I read it quite some years ago and decided it’s time to read it again, especially as I’ve since read an awful lot about CAGW/CC/Whatever.

        63

    • #

      The only thing? Wow, you must lose a lot of arguments.

      38

      • #
        Mark D.

        You are so right Gee. It should be: “the only extraordinary thing harming moose is wolves.” Same in Minnesota as well, yet the same smarmy BS “warming stress” gets added in at every publicity stunt by the MN DNR. Golly! yet they have no actual study that demonstrates warming stress as a cause. What IS known is the correlation with wolf population increase and a parasite brain worm that is carried by the White Tailed Deer. The MN DNR management policies being responsible for the KNOWN overpopulation of WT Deer…….

        132

        • #

          the introduction of wolves has been remarkable in how it has altered the systems into which it has thrived. It is quite surprising how many statistically significant changes there have been. Working out which are for the better and which are for the worse is the main thing now confronting the managers.

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          • #
            el gordo

            Culling is the only viable option, to find a perfect balance, so that future generations may enjoy wilderness in harmony.

            32

            • #

              the only viable option? Wow, you must lose a lot of arguments.

              64

              • #
                AndyG55

                “Wow, you must lose a lot of arguments.”

                Can’t recall Gee ever winning one.

                61

              • #
                el gordo

                Yellowstone is a national park with limitations, they will need to create an artificial balance in the wildlife otherwise the moose may become a rarity within its confines.

                20

              • #

                El G… I agree that a finite system with finite resources needs management and enforcement, but just because you made an evidence free statement that the solution that popped into your head is the only one, doesn’t mean we should take your advice.

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              • #
                el gordo

                No.

                I saw that show on returning the wolves to Yellowstone, very impressive.

                10

          • #
            Tim Hammond

            Seriously, if you are going to try to be smart, you need to learn to write coherently. “…into which it has thrived.” makes no sense. As for your use of “statistically significant” it is obvious from your usage that you have no clue what that means. Perhaps you should consider whether holding a particular view does actually mean you must be very, very clever?

            40

    • #
      Dave in the States

      Yes, the reintroduction of wolves in Yellowstone forced the moose to expand their range. Now there’s more moose than we are used to seeing outside Yellowstone. Last year there was a moose hanging out near a school bus stop. (Moose are dangerous animals around kids) A few years ago wild life officers had to dart and remove a moose that had taken up residence in back yard, only 50 yards from a school. A few years before that an older man taking his morning walk saved the life of a 2nd grader that was being attacked by a moose while walking to school. Wildlife are certainly not in decline outside Yellowstone, and it certainly is a very long stretch to link imagined decline to climate.

      Are they grasping at straws to blame anything they can on climate change? Or are they so immersed into the academic climate change culture that they can’t see the real world?

      30

    • #
      Mari C

      No, over-abundance of moose leads to starvation and death by disease, brought on by lack of food. WOlves are GOOD for moose – they kill off the weak and dying.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q

      http://www.yellowstonepark.com/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem/

      Yellowstone is a healthier ecosystem now that wolves are back. Prey and predator – balance. Nature isn’t sweet deer frolicking in the dawn with bunnies, it’s teeth and blood and sex and claws. It’s dirt and rotting things and flowers and baby animals, dead and dying creatures and plants and seeds. It is not a clean, well-kept park. Things shit on the paths, eat those flowers, babies, and plants. Nature is what it is, not what we want it to, not what we see on TV (much of those lovely nature programs is scripted, set-up and fakey-faked) and not something, were it a person, we’d invite to a dinner.

      10

  • #
    Svend Ferdinandsen

    Some mooses fare very well:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qztl8SGjd_Y

    32

  • #
    AndyG55

    Oh.. I weep for Bullwinkle !

    Rocky to the rescue.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Andy,

      Bullwinkle is indestructible. After all he’s the super hero who solves all problems with the HELP of his trusty sidekick Rocky, the flying half of the duo.

      He will live forever in that heaven reserved for all true and faithful servants of good in the fight against evil. Or something like that, anyway, at least from the kids perspective. Or maybe he’s still living behind the TV screen just waiting for a good opportunity to pop up and continue his fight. Or maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about, no longer being a kid…

      31

      • #
        aussiepete

        What do you mean “no longer being a kid”. Rocky and Bullwinkle along with Top Cat and Wally Gator are the three best television shows for adults EVER!

        20

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          By golly, you’re right! I bow to your superior wisdom and grovel at your feet begging forgiveness for my foolish lack of understanding.

          20

  • #
    Phil R

    Random thought, if temperatures warm a bit in Alaska, the moose might actually enjoy a climate like their cousins in Main.

    112

    • #
      RB

      In both Europe and N. America, their original range was a lot further south – the Pyrenes in Roman times. Hunting and draining of swamps reduced the ranges to high latitudes. If the ticks couldn’t wipe out the moose in climates a few degrees hotter, doubtful a little warming is doing so now.

      30

  • #
    Phil R

    Maine (d@mmit).

    52

  • #
    Mark M

    New @BOM_au chief Andrew Johnson tells Senate Estimates long-delayed State of the #Climate report will be released Oct 27.

    https://twitter.com/p_hannam/status/787795457187512320

    Long delayed?

    When you predicted a permanent drought, and “hottest year. Evah!” from compounding heat and carbon (sic), trying to spin the truth takes time:

    BoM: Australia in September 2016

    In brief
    . A very wet month, except for Western Australia
    . Large areas received their highest monthly rainfall on record for September, extending from the Top End to western Queensland, and across the mainland southeast
    . Wettest September on record for New South Wales and the Northern Territory, amongst the five wettest for Queensland, Victoria and South Australia
    . Both days and nights warmer than average for the northern tropics and Tasmania
    . Minimum temperatures also above average for most of eastern Australia
    . Days cooler than average for the mainland except in the tropics, and coolest on record for a large area of western Queensland and adjacent regions
    . Nights cooler than average for the southern half of Western Australia and much of South Australia; coolest on record for parts of the southwest

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Winter 2016 was Australia’s second-wettest on record …’

      This is not a coincidence, regional cooling has commenced.

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      • #
        Svend Ferdinandsen

        This is not a coincidence, regional cooling has commenced.

        Haven’t you got it. That is called weather, but a place that is warmer than average is climate change.
        In fact even cold weather is now called climate change and blamed on global warming.
        It is hard to comprehend, but so we are told.
        https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/10/02/study-global-warming-causes-cold-winters/

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        • #
          bobl

          Yes
          Global warming causes global cooling. I recall when in was it 2012 the Arctic outbreak was blamed on global warming which resulted in the combined enthalpy of the entire world being statistically reduced by half a degree or so.

          If what we are told is correct and the global average temperature is the measure of enthalpy of the planet, then indeed this claim meant that Global Warming causes GLOBAL cooling. This is how deranged the narrative is.

          Surely this must rate as one of the most notorious widely held simultaneously held contradictory beliefs that Lewandowski cites as evidence for conspiracy ideation.

          You have to have a good giggle at these twits.

          21

    • #
      AndyG55

      UAH anomaly for Australia, September 2016… -0.09ºC

      Still a bit of warmer than average over the North Pole 1.24ºC

      Data here http://www.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/v6.0beta/tlt/ (use third from bottom .txt file)

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    • #
      TedM

      “. A very wet month, except for Western Australia”

      Wet enough here in the SW corner of WA. Most BOM stations show above average for the year so far, some well above.

      Ignore the BOM maps for the SW of WA. The last two have shown below average rainfall when we have had above average. Also the tipping bucket gauges periodically fail and it can be weeks before they are repaired. The rain that falls in the interim just isn’t recorded.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘In 2010, Australia experienced its third-wettest year since national rainfall records began in 1900, with second place taken by 2011. Averaged across Australia, both years experienced rainfall well above the long-term average of 465 mm – 703 mm in 2010 and 708 mm in 2011.’ BoM

      They may say this is because of global warming, but the wettest year was 1950 and the following couple of decades were cool and wet in Australia.

      Beautiful in its simplicity.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Does anyone know if the BoM is homogenising rainfall data?

      61

      • #
        el gordo

        BoM is not concerned with rainfall adjustment, they are convinced it would only get drier. Every 60 years there appears to be flooding in south-east Australia.

        I just discovered the 1890 Darling flood peaked 8.25M at Morgan.

        42

      • #
        tom0mason

        Rainfall figures will only be put in the homogenizer when the political imperative deems it necessary

        42

        • #
          el gordo

          ** chuckle **

          In 1890 William Piguenit was an eyewitness to the floods along the Darling River, NSW, that submerged the town of Bourke. He wrote in a letter: ‘An idea of what has taken place can be formed from the fact that the Darling which averages, in ordinary seasons, from 100 to 200 yards [about 90 to 180 metres] in width, is now in some points 30 to 40 miles [48 to 65 kms]… the country being so covered with water as to resemble a sea.’

          41

          • #
            ianl8888

            The scale of inland drainage across the Aus continent is absolutely astonishing.

            Most people have some idea, I think, of the location and scale of Lake Eyre, but what is not recognised are the edges of the lake’s drainage area. East/north is Mt Isa, west/north is Alice, south almost to Port Augusta.

            When cyclones make landfall, depending on the landfall location, drainage to fill the lake takes months, with groundwater at a few cm deep moving slowly towards the centre of the basin. Every few decades, statistically, but for hundreds of thousands of years.

            A truly amazing, astonishing desert …

            50

      • #
        Craig Thomas

        Of course they do.
        What happens when a gauge starts giving 0 readings even when they know it’s raining? You attend to the faulty gauge and eliminate the bad data. This is how post-collection data quality is ensured. No field of endeavor deliberately includes known bad data in their data analysis, unless they are actually analysing outlier records for the specific purpose of automating their detection.
        Using a position of ignorance to infer conspiratorial behaviour isn’t a credible position to be taking.

        20

        • #
          Mark D.

          Very Good Craig! Now could you step up and explain why we cannot obtain the original justification for specific adjustments to the raw data?

          Once they freely explain why, I’m pretty sure the validity of conspiracy ideations will become clear.

          We keep waiting for them to take the easy path and I’m sure you agree that they should explain themselves right?

          20

        • #
          AndyG55

          “No field of endeavor deliberately includes known bad data in their data analysis”

          roflmao!

          You should tell NOAA/GISS that.

          00

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Funny…when you said “…evah”, all I could think of was that teenage girl Vicki Pollard from Little Britain reading the report out….

      I best pull up now…. :-)

      30

  • #
    Bengt Abelsson

    There is a lot of moose in Sweden, all over the country.
    The distance from the northern tip to far south is 2000 km. Not surprisingly, it is warmer in the south. (For us europeans, anyhow) Please dont tell the moose or they will perish.

    131

  • #
    tom0mason

    Natural variations in climate have ensured that only the best adapters survive, if they can’t then it’s good-bye and good riddance!
    Nature is utterly ruthless!
    It’s adapt or die out, plenty of animals are already extinct to ensure that the current diversity of the animal kingdom have places. However that is not to say nature has not got plenty of critters ready, able, and waiting to take over any niche habitat if the current squatter is unable to cope.
    Like it or not that is the way of nature — it’s competition, competition, competition, all the way down.

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    • #
      Oliver K. Manuel

      Yes, tom0mason, and those who cheat live in constant fear:

      1. “Could Earth be fried by a ‘superflare’ from the Sun?”
      http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/could-earth-be-fried-superflare-sun

      2. “Mystery in the heavens.” http://www.nature.com/polopoly_fs/1.20175!/menu/main/topColumns/topLeftColumn/pdf/534610a.pdf

      42

    • #
      TdeF

      It was fascinating to read that horses inhabited the Americas for over 9 million years and surely the climate changed in this time? At least by 1C. How many ice ages was that? However they all vanished suddenly from the time of human invasion 40,000 years ago and the American natives were very surprised to see them with conquistadors on their backs. So that’s what you do with them!

      The same thing happened in Australia to the megafauna. Millions of years of climate change and then suddenly no giant wombats. Just piles of bones. Man is the top predator and until very recently had no interest whatsoever in conservation.

      However life on earth is a competition and if you are really big but have no other defence and cannot run very quickly and you are delicious, these are not a good survival characteristics against even primitive men with distance weapons like arrows or spears or fire. Tusks, horns, speed and armor plating help or just pure aggression like the hippopotamus, the greatest killer in Africa.

      However the Greens believe that a tiny, previously undetectable 1C change in a yearly average is the biggest environmental and even ‘moral’ threat to the world. They also believe that evolution, if it really happens, should be banned.

      In the Green world view nothing should ever change, especially an average world temperature as measured to 0.01C. Evolution must be stopped and survival of the fittest outlawed and even the slightest change in temperature prevented by the erection of hundreds of thousands of windmills.

      The problem is, every family in Australia is now paying at least $560* a year in their retail electricity bills for this fantasy. In South Australia, this is possibly more than $2000 a year, $40 a week including ‘storm’ damage. For that they get unreliable ‘sustainables’ and no jobs, food or industry.

      *RET certificates are $85 per Mwhr, average 6.6MwHr per household per year

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      • #
        tom0mason

        TdeF

        It was fascinating to read that horses inhabited the Americas for over 9 million years and surely the climate changed in this time? At least by 1C.

        Too much horsepower causing glowball worming?

        :)

        40

  • #

    [...] Interesting data re moose ….. “the climate used to be the same for 65 million years, so moose are unprepared to deal with the sudden extra degree on the modern Earth-Perfect-Thermostat.“ http://joannenova.com.au/2016/10/global-warming-may-cause-moose-to-freeze/#more-51245 [...]

    10

  • #
    David Maddison

    I posted this above but in case anyone missed it the positive effects of the “trophic cascade”, including the reduction of herbivore numbers that resulted from the reintroduction of wolves in Yellowstone is explained in this 4 min 34 sec video. https://youtu.be/ysa5OBhXz-Q

    41

  • #
    TdeF

    Man is the problem. In the last few hundred years mankind has discovered many things. Tea, Coffee, Chocolate and brought these things to North America and then Canada. Now the problem is an Inuit addiction to Chocolate Moose.

    Many Moose have also gone south seeking their fortune in film, following in the hoof prints of that most famous Moose, Mickey Moose. So has modern science corrupted the ancient Moose traditions and the population declined.

    Worst is the change in size so that many Moose are now mis classified as Elk, dramatically reducing their numbers. The most famous Ann Elk had a theory about the Brontosaurus in the early days of Gaia. That was before Climate Change, which was coincided with the creation of the IPCC in 1988. Questions are being asked about the role of the IPCC in the disappearance of Minnie Moose.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “Now the problem is an Inuit addiction to Chocolate Moose.”

      roflmao !! Good one, TdeF :-)

      72

    • #
      Annie

      Your joke is better than mine at #5.5 TdeF. Really good! I could make some hackneyed comment like ‘Great minds think alike’ but I’m not sure mine qualifies. It’s the sort that can remember doggerel but not much poetry.

      61

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      Can’t believe you only got ONE red thumb for that, TdeF, I am sure sarcasm, irony and humour are worth many more than that. Hope this helps you get a few more.

      50

  • #
    PeterS

    Is this what they call climate science these days? If so then climate science is now in the same category as the flat earth science.

    41

  • #
    Ruairi

    Global warmists, when out on the loose,
    To alarm us,will chase a wild-goose,
    Which will most likely feature,
    The demise of some creature,
    Like an outbreak of ticks on a moose.

    181

  • #
    Jim from Maine

    Just a quick note on ticks…miserable little bahstids that they are.
    For years we lived in New England, Massachusetts to be exact. Out in the country, on 3 acres of woods. Had deer, fox, fisher cat, coyote…regular zoo…and TICKS.
    Our dogs and cats would get them all summer long.

    One year, we had a freak warm spell in January. Temps went to 60deg for two days. TWO DAYS.
    Animals were covered in ticks.
    Bottom line, if these idjits could adjust the thermostat so that the temps in Mass never went about 60…the moose would still be covered in ticks. And yes, we had moose down in Mass…seems like they were really trying to escape the cold up in Maine and Canada.

    Do these people ever leave their cushy offices and go out in the field to actually observe something instead of modelling it?

    102

    • #
      TdeF

      Ticks are frightening in Russia and Eastern Europe where they carry the lethal ‘Japanese’ encephalytis. Parks are sprayed in the major cities and you keep away from long grass and tuck your trousers into your socks. It is hard to even spot the ticks and worst of all, strangely, ticks make no sound at all.

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      • #
        Annie

        It’s the advice on Dartmoor too TdeF. We went over the moors to Tavistock in August and our friends told us to be careful and stay only on the short grass. Lyme Disease is definitely about now in England and is pretty disabling.

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    • #

      Do these people ever leave their cushy offices and go out in the field to actually observe something instead of modelling it?

      where do you think the data for the models comes from? Do you know what modelling is?

      511

      • #
        Glen Michel

        Plasticine is useful .The modelling you infer does not necessarily come from any empirical source that can be ascertained as “correct”.

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      • #
        peter

        Gee Aye, as stated years ago “all modelling turns out to be wrong though some can be useful”. How do you defend modelling? Come out with another model? Lol

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        • #

          you and I live by models. We’d both be dead without them

          47

          • #
            Phil R

            Erm…NO!

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            • #

              ever tried spending a day opening doors, switching on lights and driving a car by first principals or do you make assumptions based on a model of how they operate? So no, you don’t know what models are.

              47

              • #
                MudCrab

                Gee Aye, you must loose a lot of arguments.

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              • #
                Craig Thomas

                In conclusion, Gee Aye’s detractors have no idea how bridges are designed.
                They have no clue how a Formula1 team tries to find the winning edge.
                They are completely ignorant as to how automobile safety features are refined.
                They are utterly unaware how airline pilots are trained.
                –>insert about 1,000,000 other examples here.

                10

              • #
                Mark D.

                Not so graceful pivot there Craig.

                Of course we recognize how close you and Gee are.

                10

          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            Models are not reality. Models cannot kill, neither can they prevent you from dying. It is how you respond to real-world events, in the physical world, that is the determinator.

            Another salient point: Models can only lag behind the real world. They are good at analysing why something happened the way it did. Deciding future actions, based solely on the assumption that the model is not lacking something relevant, is simply an act of faith.

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            • #
              • #
                MudCrab

                You could make a model based on the assumption that pigs can fly. Once you assume pigs can fly then getting your pigs to market removes all the problems of having to put them into the back of trucks, or indeed building roads for trucks in the first place.

                Millions could be saved. The models prove it.

                On the other trotter, you could go and use first principles – mass and density of the piggy, acceleration due to gravity, size of their wings – and go ‘Hmmm, this doesn’t look right’ or you could go and use observation.

                First principles would show that it is scientifically implausible for pigs to fly and observation would produce very little credible real world examples.

                Hence, most sane people would be happy to say the model makes foolish base assumptions and is completely worthless.

                Models are speculation. The quality of the speculation is directly effected by the proven data the model is built around. The reputation of the model is directly effected by how well it ends up matching real world observations. They are not magic.

                They are also often not needed. You make a claim that opening a door would be impossible with a model. Sorry. If you were that way inclined you could work out how to open a door from first principles, or you could also do what millions of people around the world have already done – cause and effect.

                Twisting the knob disengages the lock. Pulling the door towards you means it rotates around the hinge. Gee! That is how I open this door I have never seen before in my life.

                Models aren’t magic. They are tools, the same as everything else. Get over it.

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              • #

                MC is that meant to be funny? Get your data, make your observations and then model and act aaccording to your confidence in the model. I have no idea what your doggerel is meant to show

                36

              • #
                Rereke Whakaaro

                So, Gee Aye believes that models can accurately predict the future, in all circumstances, including factors that have not yet been identified, let alone considered, and have therefore not been included in the models, or externally quantified.

                That is the only interpretation that I can place, on his erudite response of, “erm… no”, to my previous comment at 19.2.2.1.2

                Mud Crab, in his (her?) way, has given us a beautiful exposition of what modelling actually is, and how it should be used. The fact that Gee Aye became confused by the whooshing sound, made as the example passed directly overhead, give us a useful model of his understanding of the science he rallies to support.

                Has it not occurred to him, that he is conversing on this site with people who are, or have been, professionally exposed to computer models for many years. We know what models are, how they should be used, and what they should definitely not be used for.

                Climate models, which are essentially seeking to predict the future, based on hoped-for outcomes, of yet to materialise random events, are definitely in that last category.

                41

              • #
                Glen Michel

                Yeah, assumptions are rife.

                11

              • #
                Gee Aye

                Rw nice story. I fear that you don’t know what a model is. Why would you write such drivel?

                41

              • #
                Rereke Whakaaro

                I would bet, that I was working with computer models since before you were born Gee Aye. It is you, and the ill-educated students like you, who do not know what a model is:

                Get your data, make your observations and then model and act aaccording [sic.] to your confidence in the model. [19.2.2.1.2]

                Are you happy with that statement? Is that what you were taught at university? Oh Dear!

                “Get your data”.

                From where? Do you buy it on ebay? How do you know which data might be relevant? On what basis do you select your data? Do you only use the data that gives you the “correct” result? Do you select your data post hoc? Surely not!

                “Make your observations”.

                Of what? You have mentioned nothing that could be classed as empirical.

                “Then model …”.

                Erm, to model something, you need to know, and understand, the physical and chemical processes involved, and how to express those processes in mathematical terms.

                Perhaps that is where having confidence in the model, rather than understanding the underlying physics and chemistry, comes in.

                Plug and Play Science! Is that what our Universities have decended to?

                41

          • #
            Mark D.

            I WANTED to live by a model (the same apartment would have been even better) but my darling wife didn’t agree with my idea…….at all.

            I guess you could say my model model failed due to argument from authority.

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      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Modelling is derived from yodelling i.e. making a loud incoherent noise in the hope that it alerts people to your need for money. As far as is known moose don’t go in for yodelling (or modelling) so they don’t get any money, hence their declining numbers.
        Ticks are blood sucking parasites and I would name them except I would be censored and get lots of red thumbs.

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        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          … moose don’t go in for yodelling (or modelling) …

          I understand that the arrangement of some of their droppings is considered quite artful, by the cognoscenti.

          30

      • #
        RB

        Do you know what modelling is?

        Little knowledge and a lot of assumptions that nobody in their right mind would assume to be better than reality.

        30

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          Models are extremely useful for highlighting how much you don’t know about reality.

          This is why you never see a climate scientist do that final act of correlation for an empirical proof of concept. They use models as if the models themselves can provide the proof.

          The rest of Science uses models to highlight the subject areas where further empirical research is required.

          But climate science is already funded to produce a political answer, so that is what they use the models for. End of story.

          20

  • #

    I dare say if a species survived the heat peak some seven to eight thousand years back, and the cold/dry 2200BC Bond Event, it should be able to handle cushie modern conditions, which are a total bludge.

    Or maybe they’ve been sending the creatures to university and they’re now just too sensitive to everything. Should we call them mooses or meese? Better get it right or the species will go into major decline.

    91

  • #
    TdeF

    Also Moose are just another of the many species and subspecies of deer. “There are six subspecies of moose, but the diversity is slightly higher among caribou with nine subspecies. They both range in North America, Asia, and Europe, but caribou can live in much colder temperatures compared to moose. Moose is much larger compared to the body size of caribou.”

    So are we offering opinions on the relative merits of the many members of the deer family, singling out one as a favourite and worrying about its long term survival against the other deer species given the alleged 1C increase in average yearly temperature, from winter lows of say -40C? Then does no one care about reindeer, except at Christmas? What did we humans do to help the Caribou survive during the last ice age when they really needed global warming? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

    81

    • #
      TdeF

      Since the last ice age, mankind has invented agriculture, cheese, wine, steel, jet travel, antibiotics, electronics and the iPhone, the Segway and Global Warming. What have we done for the Moose? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

      62

      • #

        nope, they were the ones financing ISIS/L and the WTC basement bomb. They are waiting their turn.

        34

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          I presume you mean Daesh? In which case, you should have a look at the recent papers produced by the Uppsala Centre for Russian and Eurasian Studies. Search for “Kremlin” and “Daesh” and “NATO”.

          20

  • #

    Moose survived 60,000 years of climate change

    is not and never will be an argument of itself. And apart from the fact that this is old news (isn’t anything else happening or is this a space filler before the big announcement), Stop Pretending That You Understand Evolution

    311

    • #

      “Moose survived 60,000 years of climate change.”

      I’ll go right out on a limb here and say that survival of climate change is and ever will be an argument of itself for survival of climate change. Not a sole and final argument, and not an argument for survival of other things. Just an argument for survival of climate change. Of itself.

      I always say, whatever came through that roller coaster of the Younger Dryas-Holocene Optimum transition is definitely versatile. Swamping sea level rises and Storegga Slides, all within the period of human settlements and maybe even towns…whew!

      Nowadays we’re on a kiddie ride.

      81

    • #
      RB

      Gee Aye, read the abstract above. The N.Am. moose of today are descended from a small population of an Asian subspecies that migrated at the end of the last glacial period which the other subspecies also descended from. Some of those lived as far south as Turkey until the 18thC, through changes in temperature at least a degree warmer than now and in climates due to different latitudes that had average temperatures degrees different to now.

      It is stupid to claim they are under stress due to a small amount of warming.

      71

      • #

        RB stop pretending you understand evolution.

        47

        • #
          ianl8888

          Instead of just tediously repeating yourself, perhaps you should explain it to them, do you think ?

          (That last is a rhetorical question, not to be answered).

          42

          • #
            Gee Aye

            So… every time someone comments on something they know little about, the good fairies of the Internet should explain to them how they are wrong? How about people show humility instead?

            41

            • #
              Rereke Whakaaro

              … every time someone comments on something they know little about, the good fairies of the Internet should explain to them how they are wrong?

              Exactly. If you have superior knowledge on a subject, then you should explain how the other person has misunderstood what is happening. You should do this in preferrence to making snide remarks, because snide remarks do not help raise the awareness of others, and just makes you look like you don’t know the answer either, but do not want to admit it.

              Nobody is keeping score Gee Aye, but you are starting to look like you don’t know either, but are not prepared to admit the fact.

              20

      • #

        Okay…I think we’d all better stop pretending we understand evolution, which is, after all, quite a complex affair and still full of puzzles. Then we can get back to the subject.

        Now, unless the moose evolved during the LIA and are having their first warming experience at the terrifying tip of a hockey stick, a bit of general warming, of which there have been several episodes during the Holocene, is well within their tolerance range. Not that I have a sat record for the Roman and Med Warmings, but I do have all those inland seaports which used to accommodate fleets. (Can’t all be siltation or bad luck.) And the Tang versus Ming records. And all that geology we used to be free to mention, and sediment studies with many indications of Holocene sea level highstands in eg the equatorial Pacific between 5000 and 1500 years ago. (The Holocene Transgression took place at various times in different areas, but it certainly took place). Even though just ten and a half thousand years ago you could have walked from Melbourne to Tassie!

        And promise I won’t pretend to understand evolution. Or say anything that might affect my smugness rating with the deGrasse Tyson set.

        30

    • #
      Peter C

      No wonder you are so animated Gee Aye. You have added a new post to your website!

      I have had so many requests from my legions of fans to post more blogs. No really, there are a surprising number of people out there that read and re read my pastes… I mean posts … and check in to see if I have added anything new.

      31

  • #
    Bushkid

    I was going to say you couldn’t write this stuff as fiction, but then I realised – they are!

    Talk about a coffee-on-the-computer-screen moment!

    31

  • #
    manalive

    According to Wikipedia those nice Norwegians shoot them in the tens of thousands.
    Although moose/elk are widespread across Canada northern Europe and north Asia, in total there are not many according to estimates.
    Unfortunately their cause will probably not catch on, I imagine they are not attractive enough to the twitter kiddies where it is ‘the survival of the prettiest’.

    41

    • #
      TdeF

      Good point. White Siberian tigers, white ermines, white arctic owls, white Arctic foxes and moles and Polar bears. A white moose would be something else. Not pretty but intersting. In human terms, the very definition of cute. You would have to wonder that the Meese (Plural) have not evolved a white cousin, like the Brown bear to its cousin, the Polar bear. The polar bear actually has colourless hair and black skin, but looks so cute except when covered in blood after a meal, but environmentalists never show this picture. A lot less cute.

      61

      • #
        Dean from Ohio

        Mess spoke at my college graduation: Edwin Meese. We all wore white too.

        40

        • #
          TdeF

          Having dined in an officers Mess, it was surprisingly tidy as were the officers. An odd name, like tick for insects which make no sound. Mosquitoes though really do not do themselves a lot of good with their annoying warning noise, so useful in locating them. You would think in evolutionary terms a good parasite would be silent. Then you get the Greens.

          50

          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            Mess v.t. Serve up (food); divide (food) into portions. Divide (a ships company) into messes for the apportionment of food, accommodation, or facilities. Shorter Oxford

            It comes from the concept of mixing together, in order to share food, accommodation, and other facilities.

            30

    • #
      Bengt Abelsson

      We nice swedes shoot and kill moose, each year some 100.000 -and there are really a small population of white moose here, not albinos but white. Is it not considered Ok to shoot them, but not illegal.

      40

  • #

    You know, sometimes when I read these articles, I think I am reading satire, and then I realize that, no, I do in fact live on a planet where ‘journalism’ is actually dead.

    Jo, your ridicule is most justified. What is worse than a newspaper publishing an article this ridiculous, is the fact that some people will read this clap-trap and it will actually mobilize them to raise a hoard of like minded zombies to march down the high street with ‘SAVE THE MOOSE’ signs … save the moose from a global warming freezing !?!

    Maybe the author was actually being satirical ???

    Or is this maybe just my being nostalgic for the bygone age where ‘journalists’ used to feel embarrassed suggesting anything this deserving of a padded cell ???

    God help us all!

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      It is the purpose of journalism, to inform the hoi polloi of what their betters believe to be relevant, today, and possibly for the rest of this week.

      Apart from tricking the hoi polloi into paying for the ink and newsprint, the actual beliefs expressed are immaterial, as long as they reconfirm the standard biases of the hoi polloi, so that they can feel well-informed, in conversation with their work colleagues.

      The purpose of the publisher, is to sell as much advertising space as possible, at the least possible cost to themselves, thereby maximising their profit, keeping their shareholders happy, and maximising the Editor’s annual bonus.

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      • #

        >>> so that they can feel well-informed, in conversation with their work colleagues.

        I can honestly say, that personally I would be embarrassed to even start a conversation in the coffee room at work which involved moose freezing to death because of global warming :P BUT … unfortunately, I have been unlucky enough to be in said coffee room and overhear a conversation just as ridiculous, involving one particularly annoying young office lady who was almost always talking about global warming and polar bears.

        When I interjected once as a third party in one such ridiculous conversation, pointing out a fact or two, she attempted to use moral superiority to imply that I wanted to trash the environment, to which I quickly quipped back in the presence of some other employees, “I’m sorry, did I insult your religion? I didn’t mean to step on a nerve, please forgive my trespass”. She was rather shocked that someone had finally called her out on her own faith based dogmas, and it was one of the best coffee’s that I have ever tasted since.

        I believe that millennials call this particular tactic ‘passive aggressive behavior’, though as a GEN-X, personally, I prefer to call it ‘sticking it to the man’ (or woman, as the case may be). Soon such passive aggressive behavior, or ‘micro-aggression’, will become illegal, especially for straight-white-conservative-male-Christians such as myself, in which case I will simply bring a very good coffee thermos to work, and walk around with a piece of black tape over my mouth to protect every other precious snowflake from my ‘privilege’.

        30

        • #
          Mari C

          I’ve been in similar situations – although most of the people I work with don’t give a hoot about warming (quite a few welcome it – no more snow shovels! like that will happen here) there are a few who are Alarmed and Worried. And vocal. Unless I am around – they all know I will say something and change the topic quite quickly. I have reputation as being a bit odd, at any rate, and am usually tolerated.

          Most have never been outside except to pull weeds and mow the grass. Maybe shop, or walk along the shore between tanning sessions. A few have been in a boat – a canoe, even – for a few hours. Some have “camped” – even fewer have spent time out of a “rustic” cabin and in a sturdy tent, bringing along a cot or an inflatable mattress, cookstove (propane) and radio, bug spray. Back-to-nature, sleeping outside between short rides on a boat, into town for some shopping, a moments walk from the car park.

          I’ve spent time sleeping on the ground, walking for miles to get as far as I could from people, setting up a bit of nylon or not, depending on the weather, gathering dead wood for a fire to cook on, make smoke to keep insects at bay, maybe keep a few inquisitive food-stealers and predators away. I’ve waded through swamps, climbed over rocks, hiked up and down slippery trails in mountains. And I am NOT, by any means, an expert in wilderness. But I’ve been out in it without much between me and it, and watched, and enjoyed, and even have been frightened a few times (bears, mostly, a few wild dogs, which are worse, imo, than wolves) but always, above all, enjoyed coming home to my soft bed and sturdy walls and screened windows. I love being able to get away, but am accustomed to my comforts and will not deny it.

          There are those I work with who have done the same – they consider time away from people a better vacation than sunning on a beach far away. They aren’t the Worried, the Alarmed. Nor are the few who have a farm. Regular mucking about in nature, whether wild or farm, tends to give people a perspective on what goes on re cycles, dry, wet, hot, cold, more mice, no mice, etc. Most hunters I know are more truly conservationist than the CAGW folks are – they like eating game, and want it to be there so they can eat more. A farmed moose becomes another cow. And those who sit in offices and stand around water coolers, coffee machines, and cry about the poor polar bears or the melting glaciers have never seen one. Nor cared to – it’s just the drama of it all, see, and they can “care” about something other than what Betty in cubicle 4 is wearing today, if only for a moment.

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    Office of Dire Predictions of the Peopl’e's Protection,
    Doomsday Bureaucracy:
    B1: So what globull warming news can we vector to the medja
    today, comrade?
    B2: Well, there’s this little item in the perverse data file
    concerning moose – (shudder)- horrid vermin-ridden critters,
    - say, maybe we could …

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    Kevin Anderson

    The UN is blacklisting The Rebel’s journalists!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X1ijEN4q5Y

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    Earl

    Ticks only have one sense, and that is the response to the smell of blood, pretty much like greens and money.

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    pat

    18 Oct: Reuters: Alister Doyle: Rich nations say on track for promised $100 billion climate finance
    The pledge of fast-rising funds, first made in 2009 to help the poor rein in greenhouse gas emissions and adapt to rising temperatures, was a key to ensuring all governments signed up for the 2015 Paris Agreement to combat global warming.
    “We are confident we will meet the $100 billion goal from a variety of sources, and reaffirm our commitment to doing so,” developed nations said in a report compiled by Australia and Britain.
    The funds, from both the public and private sector, would be up from an estimated $62 billion in 2014 and $52 billion in 2013, it said.
    The Paris Agreement will enter into force on Nov. 4 after winning backing from major emitters led by China and the United States…
    Monday’s report said that new estimates by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) indicated that finance from public sources alone would rise to $67 billion in 2020 from $44 billion in 2014.
    More than 30 governments, including the United States, Japan, Germany, France, Britain, Canada and Australia had pledged new funds in 2015, it said…
    http://in.reuters.com/article/climatechange-finance-idINKBN12H29D

    17 Oct: ClimateChangeNews: Ed King: Rich nations on course to miss 2020 climate finance goal
    It indicates a total of $93 billion will be delivered by the end of the decade to help poorer nations invest in green energy and prepare for future climate-induced events.
    The 27-page report, released on Monday, says that figure could soar to a best-case scenario of $133 billion if public funds start to leverage more private sector support in the coming years.
    “The projection should be considered a conservative, indicative aggregation of public climate finance levels in 2020, rather than a firm prediction,” say the governments…

    is it a hit or a miss, you decide:

    PDF: DFAT: Climate finance roadmap to US$100 billion
    Australia, with the United Kingdom, led developed countries to deliver a Roadmap [PDF 1 MB] (LINK) to meeting the collective goal of mobilising US$100 billion a year in climate finance for developing countries by 2020…
    Australia is committed to doing our part to meet the US$100 billion goal, and to support the broader transformation of finance flows needed to implement the Paris Agreement…
    http://dfat.gov.au/international-relations/themes/climate-change/Pages/climate-finance-roadmap-to-us100-billion.aspx

    does the Australian public know they are committed to this? and, if it takes years to get the first $100bn “pledged”, how do they expect to raise this amount each & every year thereafter?

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    Bruce

    aka Sunray
    Thank you Jo, for a little more humour and sanity.

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    pat

    “Alison Doig, climate change adviser for Christian Aid, which defends the interests of climate change victims”????

    18 Oct: 7News: AFP: Rich countries ‘confident’ of meeting climate finance pledge
    The report, signed by 38 developed nations and the European Commission, was released in Marrakesh at a meeting to prepare for the annual round of UN climate talks to be hosted by Morocco in November…
    The dollar amount was finally not enshrined in the binding agreement itself, but in an attached non-binding “decision” document, which committed developed countries to “set a new collective quantified goal from a floor of $100 billion per year” — meaning it can only go up…
    The money is meant to ease the shift from cheap and abundant coal to renewable energy sources, and for shoring up defences against climate change impacts such as freak storms, drought and sea-level rise.
    In the “Roadmap”, the donor countries committed themselves to “use public finance and policy interventions to effectively mobilise private finance.”
    - ‘Not enough’- …
    “We know that the national climate plans in the Paris Agreement will take trillions of dollars to implement,” said Alison Doig, climate change adviser for Christian Aid, which defends the interests of climate change victims.
    “The public finance outlined today will help, but is not enough.”…
    https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/32930173/rich-countries-confident-of-meeting-climate-finance-pledge/#page1

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    Neville

    This is a comprehensive summary of the CAGW fraud that we’ve been suffering from for the past 30 years. Matt Ridley has truly outdone himself this time. Fancy wasting a trillion $ ( around the globe) on wind and solar for SFA return on the investment.

    http://www.thegwpf.com/matt-ridley-global-warming-versus-global-greening/

    But remember satellites have indeed shown a greening planet, but they’ve also shown that global coastal land has increased over the last 30 years. Rather stuffs up their so called dangerous SLR nonsense.The ABC’s Science show expert Robyn William’s forecast of 100 metres by 2100 is a hoot. But is this really the best these ABC morons can do with over a billion $ of taxpayer funding every year?

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/08/30/earths-surface-gaining-coastal-land-area-despite-sea-level-rise/

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    tom0mason

    If these moose get too uncomfortable in warm weather bring ‘em indoors for an old rock-’n-roll dance.

    “Hoots man, there’s a moose loose in the hoose!”

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    tom0mason

    But worse than that Changing climate puts conker title in danger

    This catastrophe will change the course of humankind as we know it.

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      TdeF

      Funny. Thanks. I saw that article and just smiled but it is ridiculous. What’s next? A moose in trouble story?

      What is really worrying is the insidious theme through articles that while the world may not be warming all with increased CO2 ‘pollution’ but that the climate is changing dramatically, warming everywhere, killing animals and destroying the world as we know it.

      All without changing the average temperature, the weather is somehow uniformly worse and lethal. This segue is made without science, justification or any facts at all. In fact strangely there are fewer hurricanes. Droughts are not worse. After a decade long Millenium drought like the Federation drought a century before, Australia is now drowning in water as we head towards summer. The famous annual horse race in the desert at Birdsville was nearly called off as the town was isolated by floods. Droughts and flooding rains.

      “Winter 2016 was the second wettest winter since records began in 1900.”

      Still the horror climate stories continue. Conkers? Bonkers.

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    tom0mason

    Mods

    I appear to have at least 3 comments in the spam bin, any chance of my misspelled and witless comments seeing the light of day?

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    Owen Morgan

    This article got me thinking about my desktop picture. It’s a rather grainy photo I took of Chilean Flamingoes (Phoenicopterus chilensis) in Atacama region salt-flats, getting on for three years ago. It was late on a generally sunny February afternoon, at about seven thousand feet above sea level. I had seen the same species twice before, on the same day, both times well above thirteen thousand feet, once before daybreak and again a few hours later. The pre-dawn temperature was round about freezing and the later morning temperature, predictably, several degrees higher.

    There is no question that those birds can cope with a significant range of temperatures. Even if one argues that the salt-flat flamingoes are never likely to stray up to the colder altitudes near the Bolivian border, the birds that already live there cope, on a daily basis, with temperature variations that are apocalyptic, according to the moose-worriers.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Yes, I suppose this is obvious. If you have legs, wings or fins, you can always migrate a few hundred km to a warmer or cooler climate. Britons go to Spain. Australians to the Gold Coast. Americans to the deserts of Nevada. The Parisians to the South of France.

      If you really have money or legs, you can move everything. Surely birds, moose (meese), fish, whales, wilderbeest can control their own destiny to a large extent without dying out? That one degree move in 100 years must have discouraged them, given that most animals cope with that size of variation every hour of their lives from midnight to midday. Surely species which were not created seven days ago have lived through vastly greater extremes? The very idea that life on earth is at all threatened is just very silly.

      Still I was always amused at Schonbrun in Vienna, the Summer Palace. About 5km from the winter palace. Now that’s a change of climate.

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      • #
        Owen Morgan

        I went to that palace a few times as a child, when we visited Austria. It went really downhill, before my last visit (already more than twenty years back). Everything movable had been moved, if it hadn’t been stolen already, and the general fabric of the place was scruffy.

        I do take your point about the absurdity of having “summer” and “winter” palaces so close together. I walked there, from central Vienna, and back again. It didn’t feel close at the time, but that, sadly, is because I’m a fat lump.

        Regarding the flamingoes in Chile, my point was that the birds can experience, in a single morning, the range of temperatures that, supposedly, could roast the planet. Yes, the birds in the salt-flats could fly to higher or lower altitudes, but they don’t. The birds that cope with high-altitude temperature fluctuations don’t migrate until the end of summer (and possibly not even then, since I have seen flamingoes in Bolivia in August in the high Andes).

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    Pleb 1: Say, didja’ get one of those pamphlet,
    ‘Know Your Parasites … ticks, lice, mosquitoes, fleas,’
    sent out by the People’s Protection Doomsday Bureau today?

    Pleb 2: Yeah, ironic ain’t it?

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    Robert Rosicka

    Extinction is the norm survival is the exception always has been always will be no matter what the weather is .

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    David Maddison

    When dealing with warming alarmists how do JoNovans respond when the alarmists quote BoM or NOAA etc. figures that we know have been fra-udulently altered (homogenised)?

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      I usually recommend laughing. For the best effect, burst out laughing while having a mouth full of coffee.

      But seriously, I ask them if they have read the full report, which includes all of the caveats regarding how the measurements were taken, details of the adjustments made to the raw data, and why, and the degree of homogenisation, and unexplained adjustments that have been applied, in constructing the output. I then ask if they are confident in that process, and if so, why? Your average warming alarmist will not have a clue what you are talking about, but a seed has been planted.

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      Speedy

      David

      You can acknowledge that the data is dodgy – but this only starts a childish yes-no disagreement.

      A far better idea is to consider climate data on a longer time frame and pose the question why it varied in the absence of artificial intervention. The reply, inevitably, is “natural variation”. To which the response is – how do you know what’s happening now isn’t natural variation? It usually pays to arm yourself with trends like the decline of the Greenland Vikings, the rise of the Greek and Romam civilisation, the little ice age around 1800 etc.

      Of course, the other way is to consider what the climate models predict, and what we actually have today. Sea levels rising by 100 feet in the 21st Century? Sorry, Al, that must be all those drugs talking…

      Cheers,

      Speedy.

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    Leo Morgan

    I’ve previously heard the claim that ticks are thriving due to ever warming winters. I’d also heard the follow-up claim that this meant moose were in danger.
    I stopped worrying about that when the next Polar Vortex came through. John Holdren promised us that Global Warming meant there were going to be more Polar Vortexes, more cold weather, and thus more dead ticks.

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    Mark D.

    Here is a story to “chew” on Jo:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-farming-climatechange-hunger-idUSKBN12H121

    The UN apparently wants us to be hungry.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      The UN apparently wants us to be hungry.

      Yes. The UN wants many things. But that doesn’t mean we have to give them what they want. Climate change or no climate change, let’s start by not giving them another dime to run their wanna-be dictatorship.

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        Oliver K. Manuel

        I agree completely.

        The UN and the National Academies of Sciences have worked together for 80 years (1936-2016) to enslave us with false consensus scientific opinions purchased with our own tax funds.

        It is much worse for psych patients: https://youtu.be/Ts17LI77BUo

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    michael hart

    Don’t google Moose-Hoose. It’s worse than global warming.

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    Amber

    The Polar Bear demise has run it’s course and they are doing just fine . Well other than being shot at by Hollywood hunters buzzing them in helicopters .
    This sounds like a mascot upgrade . You know drowning moose, a whole new line of T shirts maybe a few celebrity photos cause they won’t eat you .

    Think of the possibilities . Antlers falling out from global warming , mall appearances .
    The scary moose studies are probably underway already . Who ever just got grant money for moose studies
    will be spewing out moose Armageddon soon .

    We will miss the polar bear extinction hype but that’s Hollywood .

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    Dennis

    Don’t jump to conclusions about wind turbines, renewable energy being unreliable, the SA storm related statewide power failure was just a software related event;

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-19/sa-weather-safety-settings-caused-wind-farms-to-fail-blackout/7945450

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    sophocles

    No.
    Sorry.
    Moose just don’t cut it.

    They fail the Cuteness Test for ISCI (Individual Species Cuteness Index—download the CSA or Cuteness Scaling App to measure this attribute. T’s and C’s apply. Special Note: any and all liability for damage or losses caused by exploding or burning smartphones is expressly denied).

    And they aren’t Roly Poly Polar bears which can stand around on melting icebergs, looking anxious and awaiting rescue by tasty humans.

    They’ve got big antlers and like standing around in smelly ponds, neither of which passes the Cuteness Tests. Well, the males have.

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    Bryan

    I have lived in Wyoming 50 years, the moose population was holding its own until they brought the wolves in. The experts couldn’t figure out why the Moose were getting scarce so they brought in more experts to figure it out. Their conclusion was that the Moose were starving to death. That must have been b.s. because now they are freezing to death. I’ve seen Moose south of Jackson at ten thousand feet elevation, with four feet of snow and they were having no problem surviving the winters. We’ve had grizzly bears ever since I can remember and they didn’t have much impact on the game populations. We need to Exterminate the wolves and everything will go back to normal.

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    Some humans seem to be growing soft between the ears, and wussie in their guts. Afraid of their own shadow? Sometimes I wonder. (But confession: I used to be a Warming Alarmist, and then studied the science to find out that Al Gore (baby) and I were horribly wrong.)

    Global Warming made civilization possible 12,000 years ago, and Biggest Oil Rockefellers, their fellow psychopaths, and their marketing wizards have changed the definition of climate change to “recent, dangerous, and man made.” Heck, they even have people believing that ice is good, and warmth is bad. And they want their puppet governments (UN, US, UK, etc) to cool down the planet in our ongoing Ice Age. Gag! When the Holocene ends, people will figure out they’ve been played for fools, but it’ll be too late. We’ll have 90,000 years without summers, rain, crops, food, and civilization to work though our gullibility issues.

    Or we could wake up and look at reality as it really, really is. Global Warming is good on every level except for perhaps sea level rise. But that’s a minor problem compared to Global Cooling and the brutal, bone-crushing cold of a full-blown glacial period of the current Ice Age.

    Life thrives in the warmth; dies in the cold. Just look at the population gradient from poles to equator. And CO2? Shucks, man! Carbon dioxide is the most essential gas on the planet; without it, all life dies. Think about that for a moment. Without oxygen, only animals die. But without CO2, all life dies. And during the last glacial period, carbon dioxide came to within 40 ppm of the “Red Line” of total extinction.

    Rod Martin, Jr.
    Author, Thermophobia: Shining a Light on Global Warming
    Upcoming book: Red Line Carbon Dioxide, How humans saved all life on Earth by burning fossil fuels.

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