JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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McKibben: It’s The Climate World War. Hitler, Nazi’s, panic!

When you can’t persuade people to fight your imaginary enemy, declare a war.

New Republic
We’re under attack from climate change—and our only hope is to mobilize like we did in WWII.

BY BILL MCKIBBEN     August 15, 2016

Translated: Expect 200 million imminent deaths (equivalent to WWII).  Give us your firstborn, and lots of your money.

Not quite a dispassionate scientist at work:

In the North this summer, a devastating offensive is underway. Enemy forces have seized huge swaths of territory; with each passing week, another 22,000 square miles of Arctic ice disappears. Experts dispatched to the battlefield in July saw little cause for hope, especially since this siege is one of the oldest fronts in the war. “In 30 years, the area has shrunk approximately by half,” said a scientist who examined the onslaught. “There doesn’t seem anything able to stop this.”

Panic now? In late 2015, Antarctic sea ice shrank by 13 million square kilometers, and nothing seemed to be able to stop it.

Then autumn came. Sea ice is projected to recover by September (like it does every year). Nature is full of cycles. Nothing about the current batch of climate shifts is unprecedented. Not in the last half million years of temperature, not in the sea level rises, and not in severity of storms. Droughts have not changed, the rate of temperature increase is the same as in 1880 and 1920. Whatever warming CO2 does is not enough to change a single marker in a detectable way. No fingerprint. Yet there are thousands of years of counter examples — where CO2 makes no difference.

For the last hundred thousand years someone somewhere has been making money, sticks or cowrie shells out of each change. If the Vostok ice cores over the Holocene tell us anything, it is that life on Earth is a continuous opportunity for witchdoctors to get rich scaring people about a climate they can’t predict.

This is 12,000 years of perfect non-man-made weather at Vostok Antarctica:

Antarctic ice core, Vostok, Holocene. Temperatures. Climate change.

And here is the South Polar Region during the last 38 years of “unprecedented man-made climate change” — graphed from recent satellite data from UAH. Humans have put out 60% of all man-made CO2 emissions since satellites started recording in 1978. Spot the effect?

Pause july 16 SP

Thanks to Kenskingdom for the UAH Southern Polar Graph.

Now, Antarctica is only Antarctica. Vostok does not represent the world. But there are graphs from all over the globe with similar stories of continuous change and no acceleration, not even a good correlation following CO2 levels. The climate changed and no climate scientist can explain the small movements in the Vostok graph — the spikes that lasted 250 years. If we were in one of those natural “spikes” now, they wouldn’t know.

The Holocene optimum was warmer than now, CO2 didn’t do it:

“…nearly every proxy that’s ever been proxied suggests there were a lot of warmer times in the period 5,000 – 8,000 years ago. Ice cores say it was hotter in Greenland, barnacles, corals, sea worms, and “swash” tell us sea levels were something like 2 meters higher in stable West Australia* and nearly 1m higher in Hawaii and Polynesia, oceans were 2 degrees warmer around in Indonesia, and 6,000 boreholes sunk in the oceans all over the world show it was a global deal. Australian Aboriginals apparently struggled through a 1,500 year mega drought about 6,000 year ago (see McGowan). CO2 Science lists references from South-East Asia  to the Sahara, from Antarctica to America. I am barely skimming the surface.

On any timescale you care to pick, it’s the same pattern of radical change: See 65 million years of temperature swings and the, and See tree rings in Tibet, and Lui et al 2011. Whatever.

The horror! The enemy is turning 5,000 year old corals to bone-yards visible from space!

Some Great Barrier Hyperventilation:

“In the Pacific this spring, the enemy staged a daring breakout across thousands of miles of ocean, waging a full-scale assault on the region’s coral reefs. In a matter of months, long stretches of formations like the Great Barrier Reef—dating back past the start of human civilization and visible from space—were reduced to white bone-yards.

McKibben seems to think corals had thousands of years of perfect temperatures until it all fell apart in the 2016 El Nino. Nice fantasy. But at the start of human civilization the world was hotter and seas were higher, and 8,000 years before that the Climate-Enemy caused sea levels to rise 125m over whatever poor sucker coral reef was off Queensland at the time. That’s climate change. Bleaching is common, corals are adapted to it, they swap symbionts when the water warms, and thanks to climate change, corals have been spreading towards the polesconquering territory as it were. Not shrinking. At the same time green plants have been aggressively invading the deserts too. With bumper crops this war is feeding the hungry.

It’s war, I tell you, and corals and plants are winning!

“…this is no metaphor. By most of the ways we measure wars, climate change is the real deal: Carbon and methane are seizing physical territory, sowing havoc and panic, racking up casualties, and even destabilizing governments.

Is it a real war? Some people measure wars by the dead. Others see new borders on maps. Lets ask some eighty year olds in London, Berlin and Pearl Harbour what they think. War or not-war?

I have to hand it to Bill, strawman hype doesn’t get bigger than this.

I think we’ve seen this conversation tactic before –  deny the debate and conflate, conflate, conflate:

“The question is not, are we in a world war? The question is, will we fight back? And if we do, can we actually defeat an enemy as powerful and inexorable as the laws of physics?

 It’s a spot-reductio to a world in one dimension — a nonsense singularity: the enemy suddenly is as powerful as the laws of physics. Such equivalence! If our knowledge of gravity was like the global climate there would be 23 global gravity models, none of which would work for all the planets. Apollo 11 would have missed the moon and 50 years later they’d still be adjusting the orbit retrospectively to figure out where they went in 1969. Homogenize that signal…

Gravitational models today don’t have gaping holes on magnetic, spectral or solar winds, and they don’t make mistakes with partial derivatives, or forget major feedbacks.

See also McKibben: Time For LITERAL War On Global Warming!

h/t Scott!

REFERENCES

‘Liu Y, Cai Q F, Song H M, et al. Amplitudes, rates, periodicities and causes of temperature variations in the past 2485 years and future trends over the central-eastern Tibetan Plateau. Chinese Sci Bull, 2011, 56: 29862994, doi: 10.1007/s11434-011-4713-7 [ Climate Change over the Past Millennium in China.] …

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McKibben: It's The Climate World War. Hitler, Nazi's, panic!, 9.6 out of 10 based on 79 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/hxmgobh

151 comments to McKibben: It’s The Climate World War. Hitler, Nazi’s, panic!

  • #
    Eugene WR Gallun

    Excellent article! You are a great communicator. Always learn something from you.

    But could not help but notice — Humans have put out 60% of all man-made CO2 emissions.

    If it read — men have put out 60% of all human CO2 emissions — then we could blame the other 40% on women.

    Eugene WR Gallun

    262

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      You have to wonder what he is on.

      But didn’t we have those projected deaths by 2005?

      Then again, as Kasey Chambers sings:

      Mumma’s on pills,
      Dad’s over the hill,
      We’re all gonna die some day!

      81

  • #
    Eddy Aruda

    This guy is nothing more than a propaganda tool and a puppet of the far left. Climate change is nothing more than a device to control us all by controlling the very air we exhale.
    Unfortunately for the climate cabal and there useful idiots people will vote their pocketbook and when the money stops flowing these people will find another Trojan horse.

    Stay vigilant!
    [Editorial discretion applied - Fly]

    363

  • #
    richard ilfeld

    If one can step back and compare his article to common sense, he’s moving into “NASA staged the moon landings in a studio” territory.
    This is the kind of stuff I expect to see at the market while waiting my turn for the robot check-out machine, which, as a non-breathing entity may be making a quiet contribution to reducing….OH NO, now he’s got me thinking crazy too. Tinfoil hat time!

    241

    • #
      joseph

      Since the subject of moon landings has come up again maybe this won’t be toooo out of place . . . . .

      I’m not saying anyone did or didn’t walk on the moon, but, I’ve had a question I haven’t heard asked, though I’m not saying it hasn’t been.

      Neil Armstrong was wearing a space suit with the camera fastened onto the chest area. The camera didn’t have view finder so he’d have to be achieving level and focus by some means other than visual. He was in lighting conditions which were quite unlike those here on earth, and it wasn’t a digital camera, with auto settings, so he had to be making the settings, and using fingers protected by a space suit.

      The question is;

      How many hours of training were required to develop the skills to be able to take so many photos of such high quality?

      30

      • #
        AussieBear

        Joseph,

        Not alot. In fact most of the photos that you see taken by the astronauts have been enhanced in some way, either cropped or dodged. Also the photos you see are what were considered good. There were a host that were complete crap. As most photographers will tell you, take 10 with the hope that 1 will be usable.

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      • #
        Uncle Gus

        The answer is, the Box Brownie.

        I had one when I was a kid. Fixed focus, fixed aperture, two shutter speeds. Enormous depth of field. You could point it at anything, at any distance, in almost any lighting conditions, and it would take a recognisable photo.

        I imagine Neil Armstrong’s camera worked on similar principles.

        (By the way, Jo, I can’t uptick or downtick any of these comments. Do I have to log in or something, or is it because I’m in England?)

        40

        • #
          Owen Morgan

          I’m pretty sure the NASA astronauts (oh for the days when NASA was about space exploration, rather than just fiddling statistics!) took Swedish Hasselblad cameras to the moon. They were considered to be the best still-cameras around then and I think their digital descendants are just as highly regarded now. You certainly pay for the privilege of owning one, though: about thirty thousand Pounds Sterling today – and I’m not at all sure that that even includes a lens.

          By the way, I’m in the UK, too, and I haven’t noticed any problem with up-ticking (I’m usually too much of a softie to down-tick), except that it’s occasionally a bit slow to register.

          10

      • #
        James Murphy

        Here’s a pretty good summary of how it was done:
        http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/apollo_photo.html

        10

      • #
  • #
    Yonniestone

    People such as Bill McKibben and many others grabbed onto the tail of the Climate Comet partly because it was new, bright, exciting and mostly because it’s wired into their personalities to be attracted to such imaginations where something is in danger and only they can see it to save the day.

    One of the great ironies with CAGW belief is the people that so earnestly plead about saving lives will (have) cost lives if their disaster mitigations are enacted usually at great expense both financial and bureaucratic again to the detriment of those that believers espouse to protect.

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      So what youre saying is that like fish, magpies and other small animals, he’s attracted to bright shiny objects?

      Time to put the adults back in charge….

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    • #
      Tony Porter

      One of the great ironies with CAGW belief is the people that so earnestly plead about saving lives will (have) cost lives if their disaster mitigations are enacted usually at great expense both financial and bureaucratic again to the detriment of those that believers espouse to protect.

      And what makes it all the more ironic is that it will also be at the expense of those advocates (believers), pleading to ‘save the lives of those their (stupid and pointless) actions espouse to protect’. They’re clearly so deluded they are effectively masochists, to the degree of being psychotic!

      The whole CAGW dogma clearly demonstrates how powerful the right kind of propaganda and mass indoctrination can be. We now have literally millions of brainwashed, CAGW believing, useful idiots all over the world, all wasting their time, money and energy on saving the planet… From NOTHING.

      Global Lunacy – the most significant in the history of human civilisation.

      00

  • #
    Gordon

    I am trying to think of something to say to this article, but I cannot.
    Sooooo, Bat Boy it is!!!!
    Bat Boy will rescue us!! He will stop all the evil in the world.
    Bat Boy will then do a fish slapping dance to celebrate.
    Snow White will become head of the UN.
    North Korea will invade the US.
    Cuba will continue to be the workers paradise.
    Newfoundland will towed out to sea and left to float around the Atlantic ocean.
    I am now going for a walk!

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    • #
      Dennis

      The South Australian Labor Government will abandon renewables, and withdraw its request for federal taxpayer’s assistance to construct a new interconnector to New South Wales to secure electricity supplies from coal fired power stations?

      141

      • #
        Bushkid

        The South Australian Labor Government will abandon renewables, and withdraw its request for federal taxpayer’s assistance to construct a new interconnector to New South Wales to secure filch necessary electricity supplies from coal fired power stations?

        FIFY :)

        40

    • #
      AndyG55

      “Snow White will become head of the UN.”

      OMG, not K Rudd , please !!!!!!!!

      ( Thank goodness Turnbull has had one small patch of sanity! )

      42

  • #
    AndyG55

    Ken shows us the UAH SoPol is actually cooling.

    UAH NoPol hasn’t been doing much either

    Here is UAH NoPol from 2000 to just before the El Nino spike in Jan 2016

    https://s19.postimg.org/jrz6i34oj/UAH_No_Pol_2000_2016.png

    142

  • #
    AndyG55

    This pic is for weepy Bill and all members of the 350.org scam club.. :-)

    https://s19.postimg.io/9xjlwqpir/Towards700.png

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Yes named weepy Bill after his breakdown at Copenhagen 2009, Bill McKibben at Copenhagen: I went to church and cried. Then I got back to work,

      I know it’s difficult but I urge everyone to read the link just to get an insight into the uber-emotive scale these people operate on, it’s disturbing at first but becomes funny after a while which may be more a reflection on my foibles as someone who tires of blowhard imbeciles.

      Andy you just made weepy Bill loose it again. :)

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      • #
        tom0mason

        Sorry Yonniestone,
        I was writing about the same thing as you posted yours, you got there first though.
        So now we have a duplicity of references for the weepy Bill name, how ugly!

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      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Is Bill the one with the silly tie? Or does his silliness occur a little higher up?

        42

      • #
        Dennis

        Did he an Prime Minister Kevin hug one another?

        60

      • #
        Bulldust

        The guy is completely delusional. I have no tolerance for [[snip] those] who want to turn what should be rational decisions into emotional ones. The guy is completely detached from reality. The only tears I would weep are for the ignorant being sucked in with this nonsense. If cults over the years have taught us anything then it is that there are plenty of gullible [snip] and it invariably ends badly when reality catches up with them.

        [Sorry but since 18C we are being very careful.] AZ

        84

        • #
          Bulldust

          Nothing racial in there, or are people of diminished intellect a protected class now?

          50

          • #
            Akatsukami

            I cannot say about Australia, but here in the U.S. many politically correct terms have been applied to the differently intelligenced and then burked over the years, as each iteration of the professionally outraged failed to see that their predecessors did not choose ugly words, but were attempting to mask an ugly situation.

            20

      • #
        PeterPetrum

        Sorry Yonnie, I got half way through and had to give up, or I would have started to cry too, but for very different reasons.

        The last paragraph caught my eye:

        “So no more tears. Not now, not while there’s work to be done. Pass the Diet Coke, fire up the laptop, grab the cellphone. To work. We may not have done enough, but we’re going to do all we can.”

        I was just wondering where the power came from to make his coke and to “fire up” his laptop and cell phone?

        101

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Such pathos! And masterly executed! He would be a natural, for Greek melodrama.

      72

  • #
    doubtingdave

    I would like to thank Bill Mckibben for doing us a favour , he is probably just trying to raise the profile of global warming in the current election , because he thinks its a vote winner for the Democrats but infact all he’ll succeed in doing is tempting young left wing Bernie supporters etc into defecting to Jill Stein and the Green party , splitting the left leaning vote , thanks for that Bill ;}

    192

  • #
    tom0mason

    How very apt to recall WWII and the effect of National Socialism paired with crony capitalism nearly destroy Europe.

    From http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2012/01/green_lebensraum_the_nazi_roots_of_sustainable_development.html

    Much of the European Union’s green sustainable development plans are largely based on government controlled land use planning theories rooted in the ‘lebensraum’ tradition. Literally, lebensraum means “living space.” Lebensraum was originally developed by German geographer Friedrich Ratzel (1844-1904) and then greatly expanded under the banner of National Socialism (1933-1945).

    Ratzel is the father of modern political geography which is commonly called geopolitics. He believed history was largely a natural evolutionary development of peoples looking for geographical living space. Ratzel also held that expanding borders reflected the biological health of a nation. The National Socialists adopted Ratzel’s mixing of evolutionary theory, biology, and geopolitics in their own version of lebensraum.

    Karl Haushofer (1869-1946), who was an early advisor to Hitler, was the link between Ratzel and National Socialism. Karl Haushofer’s father was a friend of Ratzel. Karl was a member of the Thule Society before it was converted into the Nazi Party in 1920. Haushofer was also the mentor of Rudolf Hess, who was a green vegetarian mystic. Hess was Hitler’s personal secretary up until 1941. Haushofer and Hess helped Hitler write Mein Kampf.

    What is weepy Bill McKibben really advocating?

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    • #
      tom0mason

      If you are wondering about the reference to “weepy Bill McKibben” that harks back to the days of Copenhagen. His writing of the event is truly stomach-churning.

      If you have a strong constitution it is here –
      http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2009/12/reason-and-faith-copenhagen

      Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

      61

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      I have commented on this before, but in the circumstances:

      A pamphlet from 1923 sums up the philosophy of the time:

      In every German breast the German forest quivers with its caverns and ravines, crags and boulders, waters and winds, legends and fairy tales, with its songs and its melodies, and awakens a powerful yearning and a longing for home; in all German souls the German forest lives and weaves with its depth and breadth, it stillness and strength, its might and dignity, its riches and its beauty — it is the source of German inwardness, of the German soul, of German freedom. Therefore protect and care for the German forest for the sake of the elders and the youth, and join the new German “League for the Protection and Consecration of the German Forest”.

      This was part of the advertising for the Hitler Youth Movement, which then became the Sturmabteilung (SA), which later morphed into the SchutzStaffeinel (SS), to initially act as Hitler’s personal body guard, but then later evolved into a private army that was answerable only to Hitler, and not to the Army High Command.

      “Those who do not understand history, are doomed to repeat it”.

      171

    • #
      rapscallion

      There seems to be quite a common connection here – http://www.martindurkin.com/blogs/nazi-greens-inconvenient-history

      41

  • #
    Manfred

    Superb article Jo. McKibben nearly outdoes himself, except that he’s predictable and that’s no way to win any war. Habituated to the propaganda, the vast majority tuned out long ago. Evidence categorically shows people prefer usual programming to screeching warnings, resenting interruption by the latter.

    McKibben does it solely for himself, a sad caricature of a propaganda addict he succeeds in temporarily relieving his dependence, craving and angst, until the desire for the next fix dominates his tortured existence. He is his own entertaining victim.

    131

  • #
    • #
      tom0mason

      Probably OT, but in answer to weepy Bill –
      The Cato Institute has pulled together a neat collection of reports and research notes that show the latest ideas on the climate. Featuring Center for the Study of Science posted by Patrick J. Michaels and Paul C. (“Chip”) Knappenberger, and one verdict is -

      Finally, the observed record and historical model experiments were used to investigate changes in the recent past. In part because of large intrinsic variability, no evidence was found for changes in extreme precipitation attributable to climate change in the available observed record.

      and there is a 5 minute video by PragerU featuring Bjorn Lomberg titled “Climate Change: What’s So Alarming?”

      http://www.cato.org/blog/you-ought-have-look-natural-climate-variability

      51

  • #

    The so-called conservative government here in NZ, the government that brought in our ETS, are having another swig of the KoolAid

    I’m not anywhere near as erudite as Jo on these matters, and I find myself frustratingly inarticulate when it comes to describing how I feel about the madness gripping those who would rule us. There is no avenue of escape – no choice at the ballot box – between Tweedledum and Tweedledee, Dumb and Dumber, [[snip] worse and far worse].

    We’re a mob of sheep stuck in a paddock trying decide which to let in to give us peace and security; the pack of wild dogs, the pack of wolves or the just the few leopards all waiting at the gate for the most votes from those bleating uselessly about inclusiveness and multiculturalism and wether :) the temperature will rise catastrophically to overcome us all, predators and sheep alike.

    [Dave, If you avoid the words I snipped and replaced you won't end up in moderation. This is fine otherwise. Thanks] AZ

    100

    • #

      Crikey, Alpha Zulu, it’s a prickly paddock we tread! :)

      51

    • #
      Manfred

      NZ PM Helen Clarke signed off on the Kyoto Protocol with unrestrained eco-socialist glee. She’s now a ‘heavy weight’ at the UN. NZ politicians universally strain to be admired as an exemplary UN global citizen eco-Marxists. It’s in the NZ national political genes. It’s also a bureaucratic means for a minuscule country to appear more weighty. It’ll be interesting to see how cheerily the people of NZ respond to the UN proctoscope, the dank Green fingers of the UN money grabbers and globalist policy makers. If the TPP is anything to go by those eco-globalists may come to find things Sisyphean and particularly so, when President Trump dumps the TPP altogether. The Paris Agenda is another UN step along the way of, “Transforming our world: the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development.” Rather like McKibben, the use of climate as a political tool is growing very passé. There is another focus, this time a real focus with moral integrity, and one doubtless the eco-globalists will revile as a distraction. UK PM Theresa May has signaled quite clearly where her interests and those of her government lie, in the defeat of modern slavery.

      Ask the Caffè Latte sippers and your politician what they’re doing to rise to the real 21st century challenge articulated by the British PM, one that epitomizes tangible human tragedy and suffering. The contrast could not be more stark, on the one hand real life and on the other, the adjusted virtual reality modeled by the UN climativista and their orchestrated melange of failed prophecies, a corrupt and perverted railway engineer, faux climate eco-refugees and comedic cabinet meetings held (undoubtedly where they usually should be), under water. Talk about reductio ad absurdum.

      80

  • #
    Dave N

    ..and what energy sources will they use to “mobilise”? Wind turbines and solar panels?

    71

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Dave:
      The new catchword is “batteries”. Not your normal ones based on 160 years of standard chemistry but NEW Batteries with magic pixie dust which will be much cheaper and store lots more energy than existing ones, and as well as being far cheaper to build will be capable of multiple cycles per day.
      Thus if wind doesn’t work much of the time there is “no problem”. All we have to do is install 5 times as much capacity with wind and battery ‘farms’ to store the peak surpluses. Since those surpluses would have been wasted they can be costed at zero cost, which means that wind electricity will be cheap and reliable, and your new electric car will have a range of 1500 miles per charge. Need I have to add the sarc/ tag?
      Sadly the greens believe this rubbish and keep repeating it, fooling politicians into copying it.

      162

      • #
        Dennis

        But additional to the battery storage it is handy to have connection to an interstate coal fired power station or two.

        I don’t know how practical that would be for New Zealand but it sort of works for South Australia, at a high cost.

        110

      • #
        ROM

        Graeme No3 @ # 13.1

        You have done well to pick that battery thing up.

        I’ve been reading all about this new still non existent and still to be invented radical battery technology for removing the intermittency from the renewables, a battery technology which will be economic and all in place within a couple of years in the renewable energy industry if anyone was stupid enough to believe even slightly in the mass of flashy and grossly over hyped propaganda of the renewable industry in the last few months.

        It is another part of the “saving the planet” scam so we can expect the politicals to pour billions of tax payers dollars into funding exotic battery research, almost none of which will be in any way useable even if any of it is ever proven to even be a viable energy storage system for the intended purposes of taking the intermittency out of the wind and solar.

        Which going by most of the previous government funded research projects of this nature in the past are just a scientific scammers and troughers paradise with lots of glossy internet sites praising the progress that particular bunch of scientific troughers are making along with highly inflated, self promoting and deliberately misleading press releases promoting their research but never a mention of the troubles and pitfalls and just straight out failures that bunch of scientific troughers might be having in trying to get their batteries / storage technology up and running .

        Governments if there was any collective intelligence in the politicals that make up governments, should just step right back both financially and bureaucratically and tell the researchers that as the benefits of any such technology will inevitably flow on down to the private and share holder owned companies then they can also finance any battery / energy storage research.

        Roger Adrews on Euan Mearns blog Energy Matters goes into detail on the possibilities of battery / energy storage systems of some sort being able to provide the energy storage capacity to overcome the renewables intermittency characteristics and his analysis is very enlightening and very condemnatory of any chance of this ever being a technological and importantly, an economically viable system which by analysis it will never be in the foreseeable future.

        The Holy Grail of Battery Storage

        Not that this type of analysis will make any difference to the alarmist politicals, greens, their runningdog media or the renewable industry.

        Common Sense and responsibility to the national populace for the conserving of financial, economic and the material resources of a nation are not items which in any way can be found in the lexicons of the hard leftard green renewable energy pimps or in their political and bureaucratic puppets who will continue to divert as much of the tax payers funds towards their controllers in the greens and renewable energy industry as they believe they can get away with.

        91

        • #

          Sorry, I know that this is off topic, but I just couldn’t help myself here.

          Note at the linked article provided by ROM that it quotes costing for this battey technology (still only a thought bubble, never to be realised) at only $100/KWH, and how cool is that, that it worked out so evenly at exactly $100.

          So then, let’s look at Bayswater.

          2640MW, so it generates 2640MWH in one hour. Power supplied is around $35/MWH, so straight up, the battery cost is three times more expensive than Bayswater.

          However, that’s just the battery storage. You need to have the wind to supply it, so 2640MW of wind at 30%, hence 8800MW, and at the current average of $2Billion for a 600MW plant that’s an added $30 Billion right there.

          You would need that 8800MW because of the intermittency. With 2640, there would be times when it supplies (most of its) maximum power, but times when there will be very low amounts, hence the requirement for full Nameplate equivalence.

          The battery technology will be such that they are charging at full rate, and also delivering at full rate all the time. (Say What!!!!!)

          That’s based on Nameplate, and Bayswater supplies 17.5TWH a year, so averaged at around 2000MWH per hour, still horrendously expensive with the actual supplying power plants taken into consideration.

          Bayswater lifespan – 50 years

          Wind lifespan – 15 to 20 years.

          Battery lifespan – 7 to 10 years.

          You do the math. It’s just too ridiculous for me. The more you look at on a serious level, the more it looks like that original thought bubble, something which won’t be achieved.

          Battery technology on this scale ….. yeah! Right!

          Tony.

          100

          • #
            Dennis

            Tony it is like using a fleet of 1-tonne capacity light trucks to transport goods interstate instead of using B-Double trucks.

            20

            • #
              ROM

              Problem is Tony that there is now quite a lot of Tooth Fairy scamming behind all this talk of batteries for renewable energy.

              The Tooth Fairies of course being the naive, science ignorant, renewable energy owned politicians and bureaucrats who will divert as much of the public’s moneys to their  corrupt political owners as they can get away with.

              60

              • #
                Dennis

                An example being the heavily subsidised by the US Federal Government Tesla Corporation electric cars and battery packs.

                60

              • #
                AndyG55

                Do those Tesla things come with a large fire extinguisher?

                CO2 type for electrical, of course. ;-)

                71

              • #
                tom0mason

                An example of a government having too much ‘other peoples money’, allowing them to pick who and what they subsidize.
                With most Western Governments growth is low, interest rates are low, debt and deficit are high all because they are taxing everyone too much.

                10

            • #
              AndyG55

              No, Its like using a fleet of scooters.

              41

              • #
                Dennis

                Or even Chinese three wheel bicycles with trays at the back?

                20

              • #
                Willard

                Hey AndyG55
                What’s the relevance of the fire extinguishers?

                21

              • #
                ROM

                You can probably get a very nice grant for developing a specialized fire extinguisher that can only be used on and is specific to Tesla cars.

                So long as the tank is painted red with some official looking tags hanging off of it and has Elon Musks name emblazoned on it somewhere and it has some sort of daggy looking hose hanging on it you should be a shoo in for a government supplied few million dollars Tesla Fire extinguisher development fund.

                50

              • #
                AndyG55

                “What’s the relevance of the fire extinguishers?”

                http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/08/tesla-model-s-france-battery-fire/

                21

              • #
                Willard

                Okay, I get AndyG55s reference to fire extinguishers after he so kindly posted a link showing a Tesla catching fire recently, interesting the sixth Tesla model S to do so. Of course Andy brings up a troubling subject that is often overlooked, somewhere in the region of 164,000 road vehicle fires in the USA per year killing causing the deaths of more than 300 people, a rate of 1 road vehicle fire per 20 million miles driven, now with the recent Tesla fire that brings that brands figure up to 6 fires spread over 3 billion miles of driving or one in every 500 million, a rate of 25 times less fires per distance driven compared to all road vehicles, and of course no one burnt or seriously injured, AndyG55 thanks for the link.

                10

              • #
                Analitik

                compared to all road vehicles

                Thanks Willard. Now filter that down to vehicles comparable in type, age and price to Teslas. To make it easier, feel free to leave out the price if you think this is too discriminatory.

                This sort of spurious comparison is as bad as that for renewables “capacity factor”.

                We could also discuss ball joints and driver assist systems but I’ll wait for the NHTSA reports on those.

                40

  • #
    Another Ian

    He can add another line like

    “Oh the Reef”

    after last night in Qld parliament – and also miss that run-off from most of the state doesn’t go anywhere near the reef.

    91

  • #
    EternalOptimist

    If we must have war, then war it must be. I predict a few early victories against the carbon molecule, followed by a prolonged war of attrition in Russia. Then the USA will join the war, but only after Great Britain has been in it for two years

    70

  • #
    • #

      Gergis Australian hockeystick is back: How one typo took four years to fix .

      But yes, thanks, I was planning to have a good look at what McIntyre has done.

      71

      • #
        RoyFOMR

        Careful, Jo, your climate credibility is at risk when you publically admit to reading SMc on ClimateAudit!

        Yes,’true’ scientists do read CA but only in the privacy of their bedrooms or private comfort-areas and with only portable hand-held devices but it’s frowned upon to admit this in public.

        It’s also OK to point out that errors in their peer-reviewed articles were found by their authors a day or two before Steve ‘coincidently’ highlighted them on his blog. In fact, I believe that this tactic is written into the Codex Ipsum-Caelum followed by Gavin and Mikey’s RealClimate.

        I see that an anonymous but prescient observer has already dealt you with a censorious red-thumb and, for me, that’s punishment enough for the moment.

        A friend.

        80

  • #
    handjive

    Harasser of climate skeptics (@BillMcKibben) whines about his hypocrisy being exposed:

    Embarrassing Photos of Me, Thanks to My Right-Wing Stalkers

    “This effort has resulted in all kinds of odd things appearing on right-wing corners of the web: out-of-context quotations from old books and articles apparently put on display to prove I’m a zealot, and photos from God knows who intended to make me out as a hypocrite (the plastic bags, for instance, and my travel by car, which, you know, burns gas).

    My house is covered in solar panels, and I plug my car into a socket those panels power.

    But environmentalists also live in the world we’re trying to change: We take airplanes and rent buses for rallies; we make a living, shop for groceries.

    None of this should demand an apology.

    Changing the system, not perfecting our own lives, is the point.

    “Hypocrisy” is the price of admission in this battle.”

    90

    • #
      AndyG55

      The only REALLY scary ones of him are of when he is play-acting behind a microphone !!

      http://www.cfact.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/BMK.jpg

      Let’s face it, the guy is a certifiable L00N !!

      92

    • #
      Rick Bradford

      Changing the system, not perfecting our own lives, is the point.

      That is the mantram of the “progressive” Green/Left. It’s always somebody else’s fault.

      It’s always The System that’s wrong; perfect The System, and Utopia naturally follows. It’s not just Weepy Bill who believes this.

      Pol Pot thought this way, so did Mao, Stalin (with New Soviet Man magically to emerge in the communist utopia) and a whole host of others including Castro, Che Guevara, Kim Jong Whoever.

      The great advantage to this way of living is that it relieves you from needing to think, to examine your own behaviour and attitudes. You only need to stay unsullied, perfect and free in your infantile bubble.

      It’s no accident that one of the best-selling “progressive” books ever was called “All I Really Need To Know I Learned in Kindergarten.

      51

    • #
      Dave in the States

      If he wants to choose to cover his house in solar panels and drive an EV then that’s his choice.

      However Mr. McKibben, don’t try to take away from my choice to make different choices. Don’t make me pay for your choices and don’t make me pay more than market value for my choices. Don’t try to take those choices away from my kids and grand children. Stop oppressing those not yet fortunate enough to make those choices from some day attaining those choices.

      120

  • #
    CheshireRed

    McKibbon is such a weepy hand-wringing big girl’s blouse activist. He can get lost. He refuses to address observations, instead simply screams absurd (not to mention wrong) claims of imminent disaster that never occur. You’ll NEVER engage him though because he doesn’t want to be engaged in a civilised, observation-based debate. Useful only for green propaganda and foot-stamping histrionics and is a complete t o s s e r. Ignore.

    92

  • #
    handjive

    Quote Jonova graph:

    This is 12,000 years of perfect non-man-made weather at Vostok Antarctica
    ~ ~ ~
    On ABC Q&A, Prof. Brian Cox threw this ASS report at Sen. Malcolm Roberts.

    Here is a quote from it, Chapter 7, last para:

    The further global climate is pushed beyond the envelope of relative stability that has characterised the last several thousand years, the greater becomes the risk of major impacts that will exceed the adaptive capacity of some countries or regions.
    ~ ~ ~
    Several thousand years of relatively stable climate?

    70

  • #
    Dave in the States

    I’m like Gordon, at first I’m rendered speechless by such thinking. However, there are some sobering parallels to be found among the current alamist movement and the villains of the WWII era. I’m thinking of the relentless propaganda used on their own peoples, the resulting mass hysteria imbued into the people, the elitism of those in power, the complete collapse of academic freedom and the derailment of higher education to the ideological purposes of the state, the devaluation of the individual and of individual rights, devaluation of the value of fellow humans beings, and the brain washing of their own children.

    * Of course I must give some credit to others for the above observations, among those the late Micheal Crichton.

    51

    • #
      delcon2

      This is the way the “Brown Shirts” acted in 1932 when Hitler was an “Up and Coming”Nazi,before WW2.History is repeating itself,sadly.
      The new fascism of the left is filled with violence and hate.
      And when you point this out to them,watch out for the”Spray”you will get.
      They don’t like being “Reminded”that they are acting just like”Hitler”

      71

  • #
    Ruairi

    If a climate-change war has begun,
    The alarmists must battle the sun,
    Till the forces they field,
    Makes the solar wind yield,
    Which would fail, but they’ll claim to have won.

    160

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Does McKibben know what BS is? If not, someone should clue him in. Do it gently though so the letdown isn’t too hard for the poor boy to withstand.

    Mein Gott, where do they come from?

    60

    • #
      Another Ian

      Roy

      He still thinks BS is a basic degree

      51

      • #
        Another Ian

        Wow! A red thumb!

        For the thumber’s benefit here is the full US education system laid out as told farmer to farmer

        First they get a BS and everyone knows what that is

        Then they get an MS which stands for more of the same

        And then a PhD which stands for piled higher and deeper

        40

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          First they get a BS and everyone knows what that is

          Then they get an MS which stands for more of the same

          I sure hope not. I worked hard and long to get to my MS in computer science. ;-)

          Of course by the time I actually got the degrees I had been working in the field long enough that I could have taught many of the courses.

          10

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            I can’t figure out why you got the red thumb instead of me. I was a lot harder on both him and his cause than you were. Or so I think. But there’s no accounting for red thumbs. They seem to have a random number generator behind them a lot of the time.

            00

          • #
            KinkyKeith

            Roy,

            I’m sure that your MS was in a different age: Pre CAGW.

            Therefore deserves the respect due to accreditation of that era.

            KK

            00

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              KK,

              It was in a different millennium I think. I don’t recognize anything about our current world anymore.

              - presidential candidates I wouldn’t let walk my dog
              - climate so threatening that it’s worse than terrorists
              - …
              - …
              - …

              The list is too long to reiterate. Do you suppose there has been a time warp or something similar? Maybe the aliens escaped from Area-51 ???

              All I know is that whatever it is, if I had written it in a novel 30 years ago no one would believe it. I would be on the shelves with all the other children’s fantasy stories: Alice In Wonderland, Pinocchio, etc… …until it suddenly comes true.

              I feel like Ayn Rand would feel if she were still around. She was ignored and put down by so many and yet her version of this world is coming true before our very eyes long after her death. And no one notices. I’ll bet her books are gathering dust on library shelves — if they’re there at all.

              I’m only sure of one thing, it’s the political climate that is threatening us, not the possibility of more severe weather at some future time.

              10

              • #
                KinkyKeith

                Politics ain’t much good when what you want is improvement.

                Our lives only improve if we have targets to aim for.

                Role models like trump and Hillary are probably of more use as targets.

                Sorry it’s late over here.

                00

  • #
    PeterS

    We will never treat this seriously until we as a nation recognise the fact that many alarmists are either subconsciously or willingly want to destroy our way of life by introducing vastly more expensive power generation methods and ban coal use. It has to start at the top (ie, the PM). Until that happens we will keep their false ideology alive and growing until much of the sleeping public and foolish politicians give in to them. Tell a lie long enough and most people will believe it to be true. Make no mistake about it. This is serious, almost as serious as terrorism and nearly as devastating in the long run.

    91

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Peter,

      You do not appear to have considered the large group of people who are afraid that they may be seen as inadequate, when compared to the high flyers, that society lauds.

      To overcome their concerns of inadequacy, they will identify with, and support, any concept that morally or socially puts their self-esteem on a par with the achievers. They don’t think in terms of commerce, or science, or even maintaining the fabric of civil society. They only act to support their own self image, and maintain relationships with people they see as being similar to themselves.

      41

  • #
    TdeF

    “Humans have put out 60% of all man-made CO2 emissions since satellites started recording in 1978″.
    What you have shown is that there is obviously no corresponding effect on temperature defeating on of the major premises of man made global warming.

    However there is a simpler point. The graph of CO2 in the air should also reflect the man made CO2 graph, rapidly climbing in the last 20 years. It isn’t. Two strikes.

    Prof Murry Salby, one of the few climate scientists who specialised in the physics of climate drew two profound conclusions.
    Firstly, as a real scientist in the field and not a particle physicist, geneticist or dead kangaroo student, Prof Salby concluded that temperature is uncorrelated with CO2, confirming the observation.

    Secondly he concluded that CO2 is strongly correlated with the integral of temperature.

    In the incredible haste to destroy and vilify Professor Salby, no one bothered much to talk about his conclusions and more importantly, no one said he was wrong. So as is obvious again, no only is CO2 transparently and self evidently not connected to temperature, it is connected to warming, the sum of all heat impulses. That implies CO2 levels are set by something warming, perhaps the giant oceans where 98% of all CO2 lives? The CO2 has to come from somewhere other than man and there is nowhere else.

    All this is beside the point if mankind cannot increase CO2 levels by fossil fuel emissions. This might seem odd to a non scientist, but the world is a lot bigger than mankind and the tiny amount of CO2 is dwarfed by what is in the ocean, 50:1 and it is determined and maintained by physical equilibrium rules, not us.

    CO2 levels are showing no impact from a rapid increase in human emissions. Then CO2 increase has to come from somewhere and that is the oceans, by Henry’s Law which connects surface temperature to CO2 levels, meaning slight heating increases CO2, not the other way around and so all the increase in CO2 is entirely natural.

    Finally, you can accurately measure the amount of old CO2 in the air from the lack of C14. Even in 1955 it was concluded that So there is at most 2% of CO2 in the air. The pulse and relapse of C14 levels after the atom bomb blasts also prove time new CO2 takes to go into the ocean is 14 years for each half. So we cannot change CO2 levels for long. It all is overwhelmed.

    Amazingly even the IPCC contracted scientists recognize that, but hide it. They know mankind cannot affect CO2 levels in the long term, but pretend they can in the short term but 14 years is very short. 1987 was 30 years ago, two half lives, so 3/4 or 75% of all CO2 released in 1987 has gone into the oceans. 97% of CO2 released in 1945 at the end of WWII, 70 years ago and five half lives ago has also gone back into the oceans.

    The whole chain of logic is broken. We cannot change CO2 levels. We obviously are not changing CO2 levels. CO2 levels do not change temperature. Still the merry dance continues as Brian Cox announces that 17,000 people drew a graph which cannot be wrong.

    171

    • #
      PeterS

      In the face of all these facts and much more the alarmists keep peddling the global warming scam. One must ask the question why? It’s not because many if not most don’t believe those facts to be true. They can’t all be that stupid. I think it’s because they hate the West and all it stands for (the good and the bad) so much they prefer to use whatever means to tear it down. The trouble is what they want to replace it with is much worse as we all know. Who in their right mind would want electricity prices to rise out of control causing massive business failures and a huge jump in unemployment, stop exporting coal that keeps our economy afloat (for the time being) and stop the truth about all this from ever been spoken in the public on any media ushering in a totalitarian regime change? Only someone who has a massive hatred to us. In my book that places them in the same category as a terrorist. I can forgive all those who are stupid or clueless but not those who know the truth and are deliberate liars and cheats in corrupting the science to peddle their scam.

      81

      • #
        TdeF

        Firstly the ABC is illegally big. It pushes these stories as fact. Right now the fake story about mistreatement of violent juveniles will bring down another Liberal government in the NT with the state election on Saturday week. Malcolm Turnbull was happy to add credibility with an instant Royal Commission. You have to get the timing right for these things.

        Then I saw a Telegraph article yesterday that Sea rise due to Climate Change might be good for coral. Reinforcement stories, people appearing to find good things in increased CO2 and increased sea level, a disaster apparently due to man made CO2 and nothing steady and natural at all.

        Secondly, the United Nations is totally behind it, 100,000 people pushing a story. Thousands of opportunists to join those in the EU. The UN even created the IPCC, a crazy idea that governments working together control the world’s climate? Now that could be true for food, peace, health, pandemics and security. It makes no sense for climate but did allow the politicians to talk about the role they played in the weather, the most popular topic in the world. Then you can tax the weather. A funding dream.

        Lastly, if you have a great big scare like the atom bomb, world hunger, war (Hitler,…) you can get lots of money. So a peacetime scare has been created, as is the topic of this whole posting. Whether it is Armageddon, the four horsemen of the apocalypse, hell fire and damnation or the Rapture, people will pay. It is not coincidental that fear of fire has been used for centuries to scare people. A burning hell was never part of Christianity but really ramped up in the middle ages with souls trapped in eternal flames. Pay up or else was the story.

        As for the ‘profiteers of doom’ like the Australian Climate Council, people who unashamedly make their living from pushing this hell fire scenario, the angry planet, bushfires and all natural disasters Lord Monckton’s title sums it up. Second rate opportunists profiting mightily from the idea that hell can be prevented only if you buy carbon indulgences. The money goes to a good cause.

        Possibly the worst are the merchant bankers like Goldmann Sachs who were called out by a US judge as the very creators and profiteers of the GFC with their CDs and now we even have the former head of Goldmann Sachs Australia as our Prime Minister! Malcolm apparently spent/loaned millions of his own cash to win the last election when donations dried up because no one likes Malcolm.
        Now he may own the Liberal party and the job and and of course he really wants his carbon trading indulgences. It is no surprise that Environment Minister Greg Hunt is demanding more people in the CSIRO resume on Climate Change so he can talk with authority backed by millions in research from our very own CSIRO.

        Nothing new then. Buy your carbon indulgences from Goldmann Sachs so an elite few can be rich from the fear of nothing much, but think of the children’s children.

        81

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Peter S:
        The main reason is that they either believe the AGW myth or they accept it as a convenient tool to remake society. But they think that this will not affect them.
        Take teachers, University staff and public servants, they all get their income from the Government who get it from taxation. When industry and mining and agriculture are shut down through ‘green edicts’ there will be less tax payments to the government (and more unemployment payout) but these people never think that will mean they will be affected. They believe the fairies (or unicorns) leave big bags of money at the bottom of the garden for the government to spend. An endless supply.
        Look at Bill Shorten who will pass any government spending but will try and block an cuts in spending, because “it will be harmful to the economy”. A perfect example of stupidity.
        So all his supporters keep chanting 2 amounts of expenditure bad, 4 amounts expenditure good. The result will be economic collapse, possibly with hyperinflation. Meanwhile grubby little maniacs with be practicing their rhetoric and grooming their toothbrush moustaches.

        40

        • #
          TdeF

          The public service states, SA, Tasmania, NT and ACT all love the GST where the less they make, the more mines they shut, the more manufacturers they send to the wall, the more windmills they install , the more money they get from the GST, a state tax collected federally and fiddled to favor Green/Labor states massively. SA with the same populations as WA gets twice the money. Tasmania 2.5x. Simple, you get the same number of senators and have to be given other people’s hard earned money to pay for a lifestyle which is enviable.

          You have to feel sorry for the really hard working and struggling farmers of SA and Tasmania oppressed by the city public servants who get their money from government handouts like the submarine project even though the Defence minister said honestly they could not build a canoe, knowing full well he would lose his job if he told the absolute truth.

          Only these states can afford to shut power stations, sell off a gas turbine in the Tamar and flog the farmer’s stored water for carbon cash. Farming in Australia is becoming tragic, but who needs farmers? You can get your industrial wine and windmills from China and your food from the supermarket and who needs meat anyway?

          00

        • #
          Russ Wood

          Looking at the world (via blogs and comments) from the corruption-ridden South Africa, it seems to me that the majority of Governments across the world appear to ignore the “Law of Unintended Consequences”. I think that a lot depends on how well Governments think that can ignore the people they are SUPPOSED to be representing. Ah well, BREXIT, the ANC’s loss of major cities here in South Africa, and (who knows?) maybe Trump, might signal a return to REPRESENTATIVE government.
          And when the CAGW scam is exposed? Where are the hiding places for the perpetrators?

          10

  • #
    Robdel

    McKibben seems to be off his rocker. His shrill utterings will not gain him any admirers or even followers.

    51

  • #
    el gordo

    The ~60-year climate cycle is of solar–astronomical origin.

    61

    • #
      Dennis

      I blame Ford, Holden and Toyota.

      [just joking]

      41

      • #
        el gordo

        Borrowing a line from David Evans post on Force X and his analogy.

        ‘A four stroke combustion engine has four phases: “suck, squeeze, bang, and blow”.

        This maybe the mechanism involved in the 60 year cycle.

        30

        • #
          ROM

          Borrowing a line from David Evans post on Force X and his analogy.

          ‘A four stroke combustion engine has four phases: “suck, squeeze, bang, and blow”.

          I thought for a moment you were posting about Weepy Bill!

          20

          • #
            el gordo

            Bill is known to get tired and emotional on occasions, but my mind is focused elsewhere.

            The 60 year cycle is distinctive in ice cores and shallow sea cores, so I’m looking for sharp shocks in Europe as exhibited by the behavior of the NAO.

            Scafetta and Loehle talk of 60 and 20 year cycles, which suggests we are dealing with a three stroke, but I’ll reserve my judgement.

            https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2016/04/18/cet-temperature-trends-in-april/

            10

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘The three stroke engine does not exist in reality but according to the patent this cycle can be termed as 3 stroke. In reality it is a 2 stroke engine.’

              wiki

              The 60 year cycle can be divided into a cool phase and a warm phase of 30 years each, but the timing is variable due to the oscillations operating at any given time.

              The variable 20 year cycle: 2016, 1998, 1976, 1962, 1941 etc.

              10

  • #
    ROM

    McKibben just like our present bunch of trolls and nearly all the other rabid alarmists are now very firmly stuck in a Climate Science time warp where all science and research connected to anything involving the Global Climate has ceased and has become very firmly fixed at around the time of the Copenhagen conference at the end of 2009.

    No advances and there is a lot of new and quite different aspects of the science of the climate emerging today as research and science continue to advance and change as genuine science always has and always will , none of this new science arising from new research into the factors influencing the global climate are acceptable to the McKibbens and the alarmists and climate trolls of today.

    They have become totally fixated with and intellectually rigidly locked into a now increasingly degraded and outdated version of a climate science of a decade ago.
    An outdated and becoming ever less relevant version of climate science that is now moving rapidly onward on from those days of the 2009 Copenhagen Conference science as new research outcomes on the innumerable factors that influence the directions that the global climate moves on in its ever changing journey down through time continue to emerge.

    As that climate research moves inexorably forward, the whole gamut of the Weepy Bill McKibbens of this world will become ever more irrelevant and probably become just minor and quite pathetic figures still weeping their way through life to the laughter and snide comments from what they once believed to be their followers and supporters and true believers of the cult of Catastrophic climate change, followers and supporters and supplicants that they thought and believed they could influence and even control to their own personal advancement and for their own significant personal benefits.

    102

  • #
    Dean from Ohio

    TNT and its readers are a bunch of pampered pansies, metrosexual sissies who would worry more about breaking a fingernail than killing the enemy. They are weak, cowardly, rear echelon thieves who never stray from the fainting couch. They are without honor and beneath contempt.

    82

  • #
    Dean from Ohio

    TNR

    41

  • #
    Ursus Augustus

    Just imagine Bill McKibben as a wannabe shamen wandering the landscape as part of a neolithic group who finally reach the edge of the land and encounter the sea for the first time.

    After a few hours people start to comment how the water level is rising…. and Bill seizes the moment… he starts with some stirring turns of phrase and strongly suggests prayers and sacred songs …… hmmm… how about we burn things in sacrifice…. still more required …..burn people in sacrifice …. and as the smell of burning flesh wafts away its the top of the tide and all is revealed……Bill is a God and all is under his control.

    51

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    Here we are. Its all in the letters…PDO,AMO,NAO,ENSO etc.
    35 peer reviewed papers contradicting ALL the nonsense.
    http://notrickszone.com/2016/08/11/35-new-scientific-publications-confirm-ocean-cycles-sun-are-main-climate-drivers/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#sthash.ggLaYcC5.RddJ7xtm.dpbs
    Real researchers that dont want to make a big name for themselves or are in big Gov paypockets and institutes that have to publish what their masters tell them, just get on with the real data.

    41

  • #

    Sorry… could not find the place to email this so I will post

    The link at the top for the new republic is broken. The (rather silly) article is here

    https://newrepublic.com/article/135684/declare-war-climate-change-mobilize-wwii?utm=350org

    22

    • #

      Thanks Gee Aye. Link fixed.

      To report this sort of thing use support AT joannenova.com.au which is just above the “statistics” counter on the right hand column.

      Email coming your way.

      41

      • #

        I see it now. I did search around as I know correction posts are off topic and a bit intrusive. My amateur suggestion is to include that statement at the top of the comments section for each now post

        21

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Actually, Weepy Bill has a dark side to his spoutings – namely if global warming is the “enemy”, those who dont fight it are collaborators….

    Sneaky move – I first expoused the CAGW mob as being Collaborators in their end run against democracy and legitimate govt, now they are trying to neutalize that point with this latest fairy story installment….

    41

  • #
    RossP

    Are they (the alarmists) getting worried about losing ground? There seems to be a concerted effort to bring out the troops in recent days. Dana Nutticelli (sp?) has an equally stupid piece in the Guardian and I’ve noticed many of the loyal foot soldiers popping up in force on other non climate related blogs (eg. political blogs) recently.

    92

    • #
      ROM

      Re #34
      .

      Are they (the alarmists) getting worried about losing ground?

      My reaction of late as well, RossP

      82

      • #
        ROM

        The second reaction and one becoming far more commented on recently.
        .
        Via the GWPF;

        EDITOR SOUNDS ALARM OVER FALLING PUBLIC TRUST IN SCIENCE.

        Jeremy Berg, new editor-in-chief of Science Mag, warns scientists are straying into policy commentator roles.
        &
        In his address, Gawande cited a study that showed a significant decline in trust in science among American conservatives. In 1974, conservatives had the most trust in science, but by 2010, they had the least, and substantially less than liberals in particular.
        &
        But researchers are not entirely blameless for this rising hostility, thinks Berg. “Scientists are guilty of behaving in some ways of making this stick more than it needs to,” he says.

        Too often they have gone beyond explaining the scientific situation and ventured into policy prescriptions, notably in the case of climate change, he thinks. “The policy issues should be informed by science, but they are separate questions,” he says. “Scientists to some degree, intentionally or otherwise, have been mashing the two together,” he adds, and urges scientists to be more “transparent” about “where the firmness of your conclusions end”.

        82

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Well, yes, the Left are “seagulls”…..squark squark, guano guano…tear it to bits…….and then fly off…..

          Sound familiar?

          Look at Russia, North Korea, Cuba….seen anything worth having?

          Look at Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mao – all Leftists. Perpetrated mass genocide against thier own people.
          How many people escaped fromt he West to those places?

          01

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      How about this one?

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-19/scientists-climate-change-plan-b-to-deal-with-changed-planet/7766480

      I had hoped the mad scientist was a fictional character of my youth.
      Cheers
      Dave B

      40

  • #
    baz te hira

    I think I can see where he’s going with this hysteria….
    http://www.martindurkin.com/blogs/nazi-greens-inconvenient-history

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      tom0mason

      baz te hira,

      ¯
      Yes, the history of the German Green movement and National Socialism run deep.
      Its intent has always been to take the country, if not the world, back to a simpler time of no dirty industries, to a countryside idyll of fields of abundant crops in regimented rows between bountiful and magnificent old forests where wild animals thrive; all tended over by happy people who know their place. A place where the elites command and serfs toil.

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  • #
    Dennis

    South Australia is asking for federal taxpayer subsidy to construct a second grid access, the new one to New South Wales (interconnector), to access coal fired power station electricity. No doubt they also expect competition between New South Wales and Victoria to provide lower electricity costs too.

    Well Labor South Australia created the wind and solar renewable energy monster and they should not expect taxpayers interstate to help them get out of trouble now. I also hope that the lesson is understood by our other state and territory politicians, and those in Canberra, before the whole nation is struggling with electricity shortages and massive increases in electricity prices to consumers, and related damage to business.

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    • #
      Dennis

      And to think that all Australian taxpayers are going to subsidise the construction of new Submarines in SA as well. The RAN will end up with each Submarine worth two or three of the same design if they were constructed overseas.

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      • #
        ROM

        I assume the South Australian government believes that with a new interconnector to NSW they will be able to tap into and use the power from the number of large coal fired power stations in NSW on a permanent basis as their wind power generating industry continues to fail abysmally to reliably or only occasionally produce the power it claims it can produce.

        The complete hypocrisy of another do -gooder, saving the planet, anti coal, anti fossil fuel government and its ministers is there, on display for all to see.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Dennis:
      The State Premier and Treasurer both believe that wind electricity is cheap so the answer to the current problem is to build more wind farms which will mean that electricity bills will fall (you will see how well this is working so far, and more than likely why SA is a basket case). With these extra wind farms they will need to send the surplus somewhere hence the need for extra inter-connectors. The outgoing (wind) electricity will be cheap because it has to sell against coal fired, but that is OK because the coal fired generators will need to buy up all those REC’s given to the wind farms, which will cause the rest of Australia to pay higher electricity bills so the wind farmers can make money. Should the wind farms not supply 24 hours 7 days a week as they think, then SA will be able to buy enough electricity to keep the lights on, thus diverting the populace from thinking up ways to decorate the nearest lamppost.
      Just send SA money and they will spend it, and wail for more.

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  • #
    pat

    Hollywood’s B-list to the rescue – the pics are funny:

    17 Aug: Hollywood Reporter: Chris Gardner: RatPac Partners With the U.N. for Humanitarian-Focused Anthology Series ‘In Harm’s Way’
    “Art and music don’t have boundaries,” United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon tells THR about Brett Ratner and James Packer’s upcoming TV miniseries (production is slated to start in early 2017) that will center on a different historic crisis each season…
    Hollywood figures often involve themselves in U.S. politics, but international activism is rarer. As such, Ratner calls his participation in the project a huge honor: “The work the U.N. does around the world is unbelievable, and for us to be the first production company that has been given a partnership to bring their message around the world through narrative content is unprecedented. We do lots of documentaries, and we want to create content that has an impact and influences people around the world. And that’s just like the work they do — people really don’t know the impact that these guys make around the world and the lives they save.”…
    Ban made sure the guests gathered in Ratner’s backyard were briefed on what his biggest initiatives have been during his U.N. tenure, things like climate change, empowering women and promoting sustainable development…
    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/new-harms-way-tv-mini-920046

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  • #
    Analitik

    Bill is only publicizing the Democratic National Convention’s platform – he didn’t formulate this rubbish.
    Hillary really needs to be stopped.

    https://judithcurry.com/2016/08/17/the-democrats-foolish-war-on-climate

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    • #
      Analitik

      Arggh – I wish there was an edit

      From page 45 of the 2016 Democratic Party Platform document

      We are committed to a national mobilization, and to leading a global effort to mobilize nations to
      address this threat on a scale not seen since World War II. In the first 100 days of the next
      administration, the President will convene a summit of the world’s best engineers, climate
      scientists, policy experts, activists, and indigenous communities to chart a course to solve the
      climate crisis
      . Our generation must lead the fight against climate change and we applaud
      President Obama’s leadership in forging the historic Paris climate change agreement. We will not
      only meet the goals we set in Paris, we will seek to exceed them
      and push other countries to do
      the same by slashing carbon pollution and rapidly driving down emissions of potent greenhouse
      gases like hydrofluorocarbons

      This is far more scarey and serious than some science media mouthpiece blabbing by himself

      https://www.demconvention.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Democratic-Party-Platform-7.21.16-no-lines.pdf

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  • #
    pat

    a timely reminder.
    is McKibben dreaming of a Ghengis Khan solution?

    2011: Mongabay.com: Jeremy Hance: How Genghis Khan cooled the planet
    But aside from creating the world’s largest empire, the Mongol invasion had another global impact that has remained hidden in history according to new research by Julia Pongratz of the Carnegie Institution’s Department of Global Ecology. Genghis Khan and his empire, which lasted nearly two centuries, actually cooled the Earth…
    When the Mongol hordes invaded Asia, the Middle East, and Europe they left behind a ***massive body count, depopulating many regions. With less people, large swathes of cultivated fields eventually returned to forests, absorbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
    In the study published in The Holocene, Pongratz along with Carnegie colleague, Ken Caldeira, and German colleagues at the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology, compiled a model of global land cover beginning in 800 AD…
    https://news.mongabay.com/2011/01/how-genghis-khan-cooled-the-planet/

    2011: ZME Science: Mihai Andrei: Genghis Han killed so many people, that it was actually good for the environment, new study claims
    The wars led in his name killed some 40 million people (about 10% of the world’s population at the time)! But, as a new study showed, these bloody conquests helped the environment – removing nearly 700 million tons of carbon from the atmosphere.
    While the Mongol ruler wasn’t even thinking about it, he was causing the first man-made global cooling…
    Now, before you get into some very wrong conclusion – this is in no way connected to current climate change, and no one is suggesting fighting climate change through war and conquest – that’s nonsense…
    http://www.zmescience.com/ecology/genghis-khan-environment-26052014/

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  • #
    pat

    first apologies to Genghis for typing his name wrong.

    McKibben provides a double dose of humour this week!

    18 Aug: Daily Caller: Chris White: GOP Activists Claim They Aren’t Stalking A Top Environmentalist
    The leader of a GOP-affiliated group said Wednesday it does in fact track environmentalist Bill McKibben at public events, but not at his house or at the grocery store.
    “Mr. McKibben implies that my group, America Rising Squared, would somehow monitor his family at nonpublic events such as at a funeral or at an airport. Not so,” Brian Rogers, the executive director at American Rising Squared (AR2), wrote in a letter to The New York Times’ editors.
    Rogers’ letter was in response to an Aug. 6 editorial written by McKibben claiming that trackers with AR2 hound him throughout his day, following him to the grocery store and when he’s out-and-about running by McKibben claiming that trackers with AR2 hound him throughout his day, following him to the grocery store and when he’s out-and-about running errands.
    “In one series, my groceries are being packed into plastic bags, as I’d forgotten to bring cloth ones. In other shots, I am getting in and out of … cars,” McKibben wrote. “Sometimes I see the cameraman, sometimes I don’t. The images are often posted to Twitter, reminders that I’m being watched.”
    The co-founder of the ultra-anti-fossil fuel group 350.org called being watched a “never-ending nightmare” … READ ON
    http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/18/gop-activists-claim-they-arent-stalking-a-top-environmentalist/

    10

  • #
    pat

    Vox proves, once again, the “progressive left” has no sense of humour…at least not when it comes to CAGW.
    novel-length critique by Roberts:

    18 Aug: Vox: David Roberts: Is it useful to think of climate change as a “world war”?
    Bill McKibben — author, activist, mensch, and, though he would hate me saying so, the closest thing the climate movement has to a spokesperson — has a bracing new piece in the New Republic called “A World at War.” His thesis is simple: Climate change is tantamount to a global war, being waged on us by physics…
    The analogy — climate change as a war, our response to it as a kind of wartime mobilization — has been bouncing around climate circles for years now (I wrote about it in 2013). I’m glad to see McKibben flesh it out. Like everything he touches, the piece is thought-provoking, elegantly written, and suffused with moral urgency. Go read it if you haven’t…
    http://www.vox.com/2016/8/18/12507810/climate-change-world-war

    Wikipedia: Vox (website)
    In June 2016 Vox suspended contributor Emmett Rensin for a series of tweets calling for anti-Trump riots, including one on June 3 that urged, “If Trump comes to your town, start a riot.” The tweets drew attention because violent anti-Trump protests took place in San Jose, California on the day of Rensin’s tweet…
    ***Funding:
    As of August 2015, Vox Media, which owns Vox, had attracted over $1 billion of funding, becoming a startup unicorn. Of this amount, $200 million came from NBCUniversal, $100 million from the venture arm of Comcast (NBC Universal’s parent company) and $46.8 million from General Atlantic. Other investors included Accel Partners, Allen & Company, Khosla Ventures and former AOL executive Ted Leonsis.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_(website)

    ***jo, how i wish u had that kind of money.

    10

  • #
    ROM

    Off topic;

    THIS will be one to watch!

    By definition, one half of humanity are below the average level of intelligence.
    Making and having lots of money to be able to do the following doesn’t imply an intelligence level that is above the average!

    If it goes at all wrong it will make the UNI of NSW Turkey’s disastrous little sojourn to the Antarctic look like a kindergarten party gone a bit wrong.

    NUNATSIAQ on Line

    The Crystal Serenity — the biggest ship to take on the Northwest Passage to date — sets sail Aug. 16 from Seward, Alaska, on its 32-day journey to New York City.

    And Cambridge Bay, Nunavut’s gateway to the Northwest Passage, will welcome the ship’s record-breaking load of 1,600 or more passengers and crew Aug. 29 in one of only two shore visits slated for Nunavut. The second will take place Sept. 5 in Pond Inlet.

    &

    Among the comments to the NIRB — from Inuit organizations, the Government of Nunavut and Indigenous and Aboriginal Affairs Canada — the Kitikmeot Heritage Society’s comments to NIRB stand out for their lukewarm support for cruise ship tourism.

    In the past, the heritage society, known as Pitquhirnikkut Ilihautiniq in Inuinnaqtun, found that it lost money organizing cultural food events and performances, KHS Executive Director Pamela Gross wrote the NIRB July 26.

    “Ship passengers to our centre are a large drain,” Gross said.

    The May Hakongak library and cultural centre, located in the Kiiliniik High School building, is a natural draw for visitors with its murals, wall-hangings, Arctic books and historic displays of the Inuinnait culture of western Nunavut.

    But cruise passengers also want to go online at the centre, where they can deplete a month’s worth of bandwidth at its community access centre in a single day, Gross said.

    And there have even been reports of missing items among arts and crafts — many made by elders — which are up for sale.

    “This year we are forced to hire more security staff (at our own expense) in addition to paying overtime hours for regular staff to clean the heavily used facilities,” Gross told the NIRB.

    She’d like to see a more formal system in place so that cruise ship visits to Cambridge Bay contribute “in a significant way to the greater good.”

    ———–

    From the Canadian Coast Guard;

    Discover;

    The Serenity will have an escort vessel with her. “It will be ice-breaking capable, it will have a helicopter embarked, it will have additional safety equipment,” said Rear Admiral Abel at the Arctic conference. “So we’re looking to make sure on the prevention side that she’s got everything she needs so that we don’t need to worry about the response side.”

    “It keeps me up at night,” added Coast Guard Vice Commandant Charles D. Michel. “As a coast guardsman, I don’t want to repeat a Titanic. We need to make sure that we think this through and get it done correctly. This is a complex operation, in a very environmentally sensitive, and frankly navigationally difficult area. And the weather’s incredibly treacherous up there, logistics very difficult to deal with. This is a very tough nut for us to crack. But I think we’ve got the right people in the room to try to get this done in a safe and manageable fashion.”

    10

  • #
    Exile

    Shades of Godwin’s law here. To me me, a card carrying old school socialist, the climate debate isn’t about right versus left, it’s about right versus wrong. Framing it politically dilutes the audience and reach.

    30

  • #
    Analitik

    fraud di caprio coon

    20

    • #
      Analitik

      Bill is really only publicizing the Democratic National Convention’s platform – he didn’t formulate this rubbish.
      Hillary seriously needs to be stopped.

      https://judithcurry.com/2016/08/17/the-democrats-foolish-war-on-climate

      From page 45 of the 2016 Democratic Party Platform document

      We are committed to a national mobilization, and to leading a global effort to mobilize nations to
      address this threat on a scale not seen since World War II. In the first 100 days of the next
      administration, the President will convene a summit of the world’s best engineers, climate
      scientists, policy experts, activists, and indigenous communities to chart a course to solve the
      climate crisis
      . Our generation must lead the fight against climate change and we applaud
      President Obama’s leadership in forging the historic Paris climate change agreement. We will not
      only meet the goals we set in Paris, we will seek to exceed them and push other countries to do
      the same
      by slashing carbon pollution and rapidly driving down emissions of potent greenhouse
      gases like hydrofluorocarbons

      This is far more scarey and serious than some science media mouthpiece blabbing by himself

      https://www.demconvention.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Democratic-Party-Platform-7.21.16-no-lines.pdf

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  • #
    crakar24

    Its 4pm standing at the bus stop waiting for the school bus to pick my child, hands too cold to type this message…is this the war blithering bill was talking about?

    52

  • #
    pat

    found at climatedepot:

    18 Aug: NPR All Things Considered: Jennifer Ludden: Should We Be Having Kids In The Age Of Climate Change?
    Standing before several dozen students in a college classroom, Travis Rieder tries to convince them not to have children. Or at least not too many.
    He’s at James Madison University in southwest Virginia to talk about a “small-family ethic” — to question the assumptions of a society that sees having children as good, throws parties for expecting parents, and in which parents then pressure their kids to “give them grandchildren.”
    Why question such assumptions? The prospect of climate catastrophe…
    Rieder wears a tweedy jacket and tennis shoes, and he limps because of a motorcycle accident. He’s a philosopher with the Berman Institute of Bioethics at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, and his arguments against having children are moral…
    Can you actually expect people to forgo something as deeply personal as having children? To deny the biological imperative that’s driven civilization?
    ***Rieder and two colleagues, Colin Hickey and Jake Earl of Georgetown University, have a strategy for trying to do just that…
    Rieder: “The situation is bleak, it’s just dark,” he says. “Population engineering, maybe it’s an extreme move. But it gives us a chance.”…
    Is it really so crazy? Scientists have proposed incredibly risky schemes to geoengineer the clouds and oceans. They’re researching ways to suck carbon out of the air on a mass scale. Some have even called for overhauling the global system of free-market capitalism…
    http://www.npr.org/2016/08/18/479349760/should-we-be-having-kids-in-the-age-of-climate-change

    ***Rieder was formerly at Georgetown Uni (2009-2014, LinkedIn).

    response from Daily Caller:

    18 Aug: Daily Caller: Andrew Follett: NPR: Should We Be Having Kids In Light Of Global Warming?
    NPR interviews the founders of a similar group, Conceivable Future, which believes that “the climate crisis is a reproductive crisis” and advocates for abortion, smaller families and ending conventional energy…
    Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, who advised both Pope Francis and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, claims that the maximum number of people Earth can support is a mere 1 billion people…READ ON
    http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/18/npr-should-we-be-having-kids-in-light-of-global-warming/

    40

  • #
    Michael Whittemore

    When discussing Arctic Sea Ice the concern is about the volume of sea ice as shown in this graph http://psc.apl.washington.edu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/schweiger/ice_volume/BPIOMASIceVolumeAnomalyCurrentV2.1.png

    30

  • #
    handjive

    “First they came …”

    First they came for VW, and I did not speak out – because I was not a VW driver.

    Then they came for Mitsubishi, and I did not speak out – because I was not a Mitsubishi driver.

    Then they came for Harley Davidson, and I did not speak out – because I was not a Harley Davidson rider.

    Then they came for me – and there was no-one left to speak for me.

    “First they came …”
    … is a famous statement and provocative poem written by Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis’ rise to power and the subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after group.

    60

  • #
    ROM

    Off topic but it fits in with Weepy Bills very unstable levels of anything that might be classed as evidence of sanity.

    The world of climate alarmism and climate alarmism science just keeps on giving!
    It truly is becoming another Fairy Dust laden, Alice in Wonderland and a way out of this world example of the collective insanity of global warming believers and many climate alarmist scientists.

    GWPF headline;

    CLIMATE SCIENTISTS CONCERNED LA NINA MAY USHER IN NEW WARMING HIATUS

    And here is little old me believing for a long time past that ANYTHING that might stop the claimed and purported increases in global temperatures and even go as far as lowering the Earth’s temperature would be more than welcomed and would be greeted with great sense of relief by the climate alarmists and “natural climate change” deniers.

    It seems I was apparently quite wrong, drastically wrong in fact to ever assume that!

    40

    • #
      AndyG55

      “that ANYTHING that might stop the claimed and purported increases ”

      They are WELL past the point of any credibility.

      They cannot push the lie too much further without waking up even the dimmest minded humans (CT, Frank, Harry etc) to the FARCE.

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  • #
    TdeF

    Sometimes you think maybe you are missing something?

    The Climate Crisis.

    What crisis?

    40

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘The significant multi-century-scale cycles were 199 and 110 in the 2485-year temperature series for the central-eastern Tibetan Plateau.’

    Liu yu et al

    Assuming its universal we should see more icebergs in the North Atlantic over the coming years.

    40

  • #
    damon

    Jo, could you please address the problem of your plurals?

    01

  • #
    Bushkid

    I’m increasingly bemused that so many otherwise apparently intelligent and educated people continue to spout this utter nonsense. It has to be incompetence, incapability, incredulousness, diminished acuity, immaturity or else plain old self promotion, misanthropy, delusional belief in repeatedly failed Marxist/Leninist/Maoist/Pol Pot-ist/communist/socialist doctrine, deep dependence on cult-like behaviour, or outright evil intent towards the greater portion of humanity. I’m just not sure which. Maybe it’s all of them………….

    41

  • #
    Brunswick-Greenhoffer

    Maybe he is angry because he can’t find the notch? Bring back Force X! Or was it Force D! Anyway we want the forces published. Now! (Or whenever it passes peer review)

    01

  • #
    Svend Ferdinandsen

    I wonder why the US thinks all problems can be solved by guns and war.
    Nuke the climate to make it behave like we want! What could be wrong with that?
    Last time we heard that retoric was during the ice age scare, and now the US militarys prime goal is climate.
    You also hear alarmists claim we must fight for the climate.
    It is indeed strange times.

    20

    • #
      tom0mason

      But it’s not the climate’s fault!
      The climate is controlled by the actions of Polar Bears and Penguins (they control the Auroras at the poles, viscously cycling them to stir the air masses above.)
      Now if the President could just get Special Forces to ‘neutralize’ these planetary foe then the weather will stabilize and the climate slowly calm to proper seasonal predictability.

      10

  • #
    Bruce

    Thank you Jo, I rely on you for the facts, which also helps my sanity. I watched Ted Cruz interrogate el presidente of one of the US Global Warming Organisations, which was a farce because his answer to all questions amounted to “97% of scientists agree with him”, which is a proven lie, which he added to his other lie that the 18 year “pause” has been disproved. What can be done to get these criminals put into prison for fraud ?

    00