JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks

The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Archives

Peter Spencer update: In court today former Environment Minister Kemp. Plus Bob Katter attends

Today is a big day for the trial of Peter Spencer versus the Commonwealth with Dr David Kemp, Minister for the Environment and Heritage in 2003, appearing as a witness. Bob Katter will give  a press conference. Dr Alan Moran, former IPA director will appear too. See times and details below. Public  are welcome.

The background: Peter Spencer versus the Commonwealth and why it’s potentially “bigger than Mabo”

Peter Spencer is the farmer in New South Wales who bought a farm and then lost 80% of it when rules changed to stop people clearing native vegetation. Unable to use most of his property, but still owing money on the mortgage for it, he was bankrupted. He broke no law, but lost his life’s work. Farmers all around Australia lost billions of dollars in assets but at the same time the federal government gained billions of dollars in carbon credits and met our Kyoto requirements by counting the carbon in the vegetation that was locked away.

The implications of this case apply to land holders across the continent. Indeed, if any governments can arbitrarily take assets without paying, or force a small minority to bear the burden of the majority,  this is not just about property rights, it’s about the kind of country we want to live in.

Testimonies December 4th, 2014:

  • 9:30AM, Federal MP Mr Bob Katter will hold a press conference in support of Peter Spencer at the entrance to the Federal Court building in Queens Square, Sydney.
  • The valuer for Peter Spencer, Mr Colin Davies, will complete his evidence.
  • Followed into the witness box by Dr David Kemp, who was the Minister for Environment & Heritage in the Howard Government at the time of the proclamation of the 2003 Native Vegetation Act. (Scheduled for 10:15am at Court 22B, Federal Court of Australia, Law Courts Building, Queens Square, Sydney.
  • Next Dr Alan Moran, former Director of the Institute of Public Affairs as an expert witness for Peter Spencer.

Public visitors welcome — the sessions are 10:15 to 12:15 PM, and 2:15 to 4:15 PM.

The Federal government must pay compensation for confiscating assets — it is in the constitution, but the the native vegetation acts were officially brought in by the state governments. It is a loophole that should not exist. The legality of this is finally being tested in the Federal Court in Sydney and continues next week too.

“My concerns are directed at the families of the hundreds of farmers who have suicided and the politicians who have failed to show any concern, compassion or morality for what the government has done to these families and the nation’s Constitution.”
~ Peter Spencer

Get the latest updates on the JoinPeterSpencer blog, or on the facebook site.

My previous post on this: Peter Spencer versus the Commonwealth.

Thanks to those who donated. Part of those funds helped to cover the flights for a carbon modeler, Dr David Evans, to Sydney to be an expert witness in the trial last week.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.4/10 (88 votes cast)
Peter Spencer update: In court today former Environment Minister Kemp. Plus Bob Katter attends, 9.4 out of 10 based on 88 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/k8c9yso

34 comments to Peter Spencer update: In court today former Environment Minister Kemp. Plus Bob Katter attends

  • #
    Peter Miller

    Peter Spencer, on behalf of us all, I wish you good luck.

    Unfortunately, you are up against the most dishonourable and devious of things, namely a government smugly spouting green ideology and hiding behind its skirts.

    310

  • #

    Bona vacantia – what belongs to no one belongs to the queen. A (supposed) ancient law of England (not Scotland) which was then presumably given to Australia.

    And by which the queen is responsible for all the CO2.

    Strangely however, whilst she claims to own all of Scotland (except that we Scots can prove we own) … she’s just a bit reluctant to admit she owns the CO2 and is therefore solely responsible for clearing it up!

    There must be a legal Latin phrase for “you can’t own all the benefits without owning all the liabilities”.

    However, perhaps Australian judges will be more sympathetic to the view that if the “crown” owns the mining assets then they are also liable for any costs associated with CO2.

    221

    • #
      Hasbeen

      I really can’t imagine why Mike, if those poms are so bad, that you lot didn’t vote to separate yourselves from them.

      Could it be all that lovely welfare flowing in a mighty river northwards across your boarder from those dreadful poms?

      75

    • #
      Gerry Ward

      When will the populace wake up that CO2 is not the problem. It is essential to all life on earth. Without it, and much more than we currently are experiencing, we will not be able to feed everybody. More CO2 means more food. Simple as that.

      50

  • #

    Legal phrase, not sure. But Google translate provides this:
    vos non potestis habere omnia beneficia omnia possidentes absque rerum habent immunitatem

    Used to be that owning something meant you had rights to go with it. These days, the only thing which goes along with ownership is liability.

    And property taxes, of course.

    180

    • #
      Originalsteve

      Yes, if you stop paying rates on your un-mortgaged freehold houses you find out who really owns your home…..

      Its not you.

      30

  • #
    Ted

    You only own the topsoil. As a farm owner all my life that has grated on a raw wound. The farmer is the true green, his wealth and worth is tied to the quality of his property, its preservation is his lifes work.
    The wealth can be sucked from underground and the subsidence set in. Then the law changed so that you could not change what grew on the topsoil if it was native Australian. That meant you had to ensure native grass never ever grew on your improved pasture, so you had to keep paying out to keep it fully improved or loose it.

    180

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      That depends on the title under which the parcel of land is held. Some titles in NSW do include the minerals. If the land was taken up in the nineteenth century the purchasers may have chosen to pay extra for the inclusion.

      50

      • #
        ianl8888

        The private ownership of minerals in NSW is very rare. Essentially traced back to colonial days when the various Governors had no funds to pay for services (eg. survey mapping) so granted mineral ownership in lieu

        Neville Wran unilaterally swiped all of this without compensation (the State has no written constitution so just compensation cannot be enforced under any law). Greiner in Opposition promised to rectify this injustice and eventually tried to do so in Govt with the formation of the Coal Compensation Board – that entity is a whole nother board game, and a very interesting one at that

        For completeness, I should add that ownership of all minerals is not claimed by the Crown. Some are considered too meagre or of insufficient value to be bothered with (eg. clay deposits)

        50

  • #
    Greg Cavanagh

    My brother bought a 7 acre block at Eungella many years ago. He planted it out with cabinet timbers, all the expensive stuff. He figured that a 30 year harvest would see him rich upon retirement.

    When carbon offsets came in he thought it would be a good idea to make some money off his trees while they were growing. I urged him to absolutely not go down that road because he would loose the rights over the trees completely. Apparently he listened to me.

    The government then claimed the trees for themselves saying they were native. He had to take it court to claim his own trees back. Thankfully he had (I think it was) Wildlife and fisheries help him plant the trees in the fist place. So he had a paper trail showing evidence they weren’t native, but planted.

    However, the last cyclone that hit Mackay split all his trees anyway. So they are now worthless.

    120

  • #
    Mal Rosher

    Is it wise to let Bob Katter anywhere near a Court? I’m always tempted to put a small ticket showing 2/6d in his hat band

    50

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Bob Katter is the best local rep in the parliament. I wish he could be mine.

      41

      • #
        pattoh

        Ted

        You would have noticed the fact that the MSM has only recently taken him back out of his box for entertainment value because Clive is a bit on the nose & Barnaby is keeping a low profile & a clean slate.

        I guess if they got their jollies from the Jacquie Lambie alone, sooner or later Anne Summers would arc up ( & that would be ashes in her mouth).

        40

    • #
      Mal Rosher

      Ted , That could be true, BUT he is wasting his time and the House, as he is on his own. And you have to admit, he is, shall we say, idiosyncratic?

      40

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        He does at times play the clown. But you can’t be wrong defending what is right.

        At and since the last election Bob Katter’s space in the wider electorate was swallowed by Clive Palmer’s money. I am still hoping that he can recover.

        10

  • #
    JohnM

    Which federal government brought this legislation in?

    31

    • #
      handjive

      “The last dark deed of the Howard Government was the passage of the National Greenhouse and Energy Reporting Act in October 2007.
      That act is the auditing basis of the carbon tax.”

      http://newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=5257

      And, you should be grateful to Howard, JohnM, as Chicago has been saved from frying:

      3 December, 2014
      2014 Chicago Has Been Coldest In 110 Years

      “In fact, none of us have never experienced a year as cold as 2014.
      The last time the average annual year-to-date temperature was this cold was back in 1904.
      According to the Gerontology research group, there is nobody from Illinois born before 1904 that is still living.
      Nationwide, there are 18 people older than 110 years old.

      http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/12/03/2014-chicago-has-been-coldest-in-110-years/
      . . .
      Phew. That was close.

      Did I mention it was GLOBAL Warming’s Hottest Year ever?
      Not in Chicago.

      You know it makes sense.

      110

      • #
        the Griss

        All the warming always seems to take place where there are very few thermometers. ;-)

        Central Australia, the Antarctic (even though sea ice is a very high levels, parts of the Arctic, even though sea ice is rebounding well)

        100

        • #
          handjive

          “All the warming always seems to take place where there are very few thermometers. ;-)

          From the Coldest Chicago link comes this quote:

          “The other “cold pockets” were mostly in the middle of nowhere, making Chicago easily the most populous area to experience extreme cold.”

          http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/12/03/2014-chicago-has-been-coldest-in-110-years/

          MAY 9, 2014, Nat Geo
          There are several explanations for regional “global warming hole,” scientists say

          Although the Deep South has a reputation for hot, steamy weather, part of the Southeastern United States actually experienced cooler-than-normal temperatures in the years between 1991 and 2012.

          The pollution emitted by coal-fired power plants may have contributed to cooler temperatures in some regions of the Southeast.
          This power plant in Cartersville, Georgia, is one of the biggest in the country.
          . . .
          2 take away facts:

          . Coal-fired power stations cause cooling

          . Cartersville, Georgia is in the middle of nowhere.

          50

      • #
        Originalsteve

        Yes and people laugh when I say Howard is a Socialist…..

        He brought in the Socialist dream of gun control, too.

        10

        • #
          scoota

          You must remember that Gareth Evens {Labor} signed away our right to bear arms with the UN to get a seat there.
          In the contract with the UN Australia would be disarmed by the year 2000.
          The same as he signed away the rights of the PARENTS.

          00

  • #
  • #
  • #
    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Yes. The discovery of a previously unfamiliar species indicates not that the system must be changed, but that the existing system has supported the presence of that species.

      These regulations are driven, to quote David Archibald in the excellent newsweekly article referred to by Handjive @ #7.1, not by a love of nature, but a loathing for one’s fellow man.

      20

  • #
    Rick Bradford

    Every totalitarian regime starts out by abrogating personal property rights, because they know it to be the fundamental element that enables a civilised society, and one which prospers outside state control.

    Once they’ve stolen your property rights, usually dressed up along the lines of “the land belongs to the people”, then they steal your personal freedoms, and then, as history teaches us, they steal your life.

    That is why the Eighth Commandment reads: “Thou shalt not steal.

    111

    • #
      Matty

      An I thought it was because only the Government can

      31

    • #
      Originalsteve

      I see a time sadly, when Communism will run australia.

      Over the years, the Fabians have weaned people onto the teat of govt, removed peoples rights and dumbed down society. Kruschev crowed that communism would triumph without a fight – the Fabians ( Like Whitlam, Hawke, Kirner, et al ) have slowly and deliberately weakened the fabric of society. If tyou read the aims of the communist party, its a Fabian “to do” list.

      We need to fight back hard now, starting with educating kids their teachers can be wrong ( I constantly see a fair bit of eco nonsense coming through as themes from school , which subtely messes with their minds ), and that the whole eco thing is the Red Menace dressed up as a wolf in lamb skins….

      40

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        It has been for 40 years. Even Howard failed to see that many of his text books must have been written by Marxists.

        00

  • #
  • #
    Ted O'Brien.

    As of Friday lunchtime, ABC News and Current Affairs seems to have deemed this case not of interest to its rural clients.

    00

  • #
    Andyj

    Er, excuse me, back to basics. Don’t plants harvest CO2?

    A steady state grassland or an established forest is carbon neutral.
    A crop means harvesting CO2 every year.

    00

    • #

      Depends. Are you using plants for carbon sequestration or talking about the carbon cycle? Crops are not as effective for sequestration, it is said, as say a rainforest that has leaves year-round. On the other hand, the CO2 is part of the natural cycle, rather than the “evil fossil fuel” source (aka naturally sequestered CO2 that humans release prematurely by burning), so the release is not a problem in the overall carbon cycle. Few use crops as carbon sequestration devices for obvious reasons.

      00

  • #
    Andyj

    Its a pathetic premise no matter how we cook it. CO2 has zero harmful effects to life but deadly consequences when removed.

    We should sue the b’stards for wanting it lower.

    00