JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Man to live on melting iceberg for one year to urge climate change action (An unthreaded thread)

Adrift 2015: The official trailer

From Treehugger (where else?)  h/t Climate Depot

 The man pictured above is Alex Bellini, a professional adventurer and motivational speaker who plans to live alone on a melting iceberg off the coast of Greenland for one year, to emphasize the urgent need for climate change action.

Starting in spring of 2015, Bellini plans to find a suitable iceberg in the northwest region of Greenland, where he will remain for up to a year as it slowly melts. Provisioned with with 300 kilograms (661 pounds) of dried food, Bellini will shelter in a survival capsule, the Kevlar-reinforced kind used for ocean oil rigs, until it becomes too risky — at which point he will take to the sea in the capsule, floating adrift until he is rescued.

Treehugger asked:

“Crazy publicity stunt or stroke of daring genius? We’re not sure…

Jo says:

It’s neither and both –  it’s a genius publicity stunt and a stroke of crazy.

The man is a motivational speaker. Assuming he survives, (I hope he does) this’ll set him up for five years of speeches.

(Unless, of course the world cools and everyone realizes what he did was risky and pointless. He might not be such a hot ticket then.)

Thus does the climate become the excuse for adventures which I suspect were to be had in any case.

At least he’s not near the Antarctic where record sea ice might keep the iceberg afloat all year long, but where other adventurers discovered how hard it was to get out of it.

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Man to live on melting iceberg for one year to urge climate change action (An unthreaded thread), 7.9 out of 10 based on 61 ratings

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271 comments to Man to live on melting iceberg for one year to urge climate change action (An unthreaded thread)

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    Otter (ClimateOtter on Twitter)

    Let’s see how long he can go without a bath, cause there ain’t NO hot water to be found there!


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    Brad

    Define suitable….
    Guaranteed to melt in 10 days, or 10 months?
    Will he share it with bears or seals?

    What tools, electronics, etc.


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    Harry van Schalkwijk

    This man’s plan is that he’s going to behave as a sort of monk for a year. It shows, again, how much this global warming alarm is a religious thing. He does not show an impressive level of knowledge of what happens in polar regions, he’s focused on ritual rather than knowledge.
    The forming of icebergs and the slow melting of them is a perfectly natural thing. It is in fact rather silly to go and sit on top of one of them for a year or so.

    He talks of sea-level rise, which is not accelerating contrary to what he suggests, and the change of albedo in the arctic which is not an important positive feedback in climate change as it turns out.


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    Graeme No.3

    An un-threaded fool. Has no-one told him that icebergs aren’t always dimensionally stable?

    There is also a rather large logical gap in “proving” that icebergs melt, as they always have done, and any “proof” that the Earth is warming. Still, the ABC will swallow it.


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    As the globe continues its relentless march to boil, masses will seek refuge with him on his giant ice-cube, causing the whole thing to tip over. Ironically, the mass loss of human life will result in lower CO2 emissions, thus saving the planet. I’m © -ing the movie rights to this scenario.


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    handjive

    What happened last time a global warming idiot tried this?

    Susan R. Eaton emerges from a Royal Canadian Air Force CH-146 Griffon tactical helicopter at Arctic Bay.
    Eaton was among a group of tourists rescued from the sea ice on North Baffin Island last summer, when the ice they were camping on unexpectedly broke apart and began to drift away.

    The rescue cost the Canadian Military Canadian Taxpayers $2.7 million, the National Post later reported.

    That hasn’t deterred Eaton.”
    . . .
    Split Enz summed it up best in song: “Nobody takes me seriously


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    diogenese2

    He needs to choose carefully. The largest berg in recent history broke off the Peterman Glacier in Northern Greenland in 2012 (11 years after the first crack was detected). To date it appears some small fragments are still evident in Baffin Bay.
    The berg was twice the size of Manhattan. Ah! there’s a challenge, a whole year living on pemmican and snow melt while dreaming of Zabar’s supper counter and imagining strolling through Strawberry Fields and across Central Park to the Met, with the odd trip to Coney Island on the D-Line. What a feat of endurance in such a noble cause. But how sad to imagine that this will command the MSM attention for 12 months. At least the “ship of fools” had some group jeopardy interest. Note “until it becomes too risky….floating adrift until he is rescued”. Who is going to stump up for that – David Suzuki? Daily tweets such as “met a polar bear today – change of underpants needed” are not going to sell many copies (not that the Guardian couldn’t do with a boost).
    Not three weeks ago here a bloke pushed a Brussels sprout up Mount Snowdon with his nose. Apparently he raised £45k for charity.
    Why do I think this was a greater achievement?


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  • #

    Mann to live on melting iceberg for one year? Excellent!


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    Pathway

    He appears to be as unstable as your average iceberg.


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    turnedoutnice

    The poor bleeder will get piles.


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    Peter Miller

    I think this guy thinks he is smart.

    He is starting in spring, that gives him around 5-6 months of melting ice.

    Before autumn/fall actually arrives, there will be lots of highly publicised whining and whinging about “it’s worse than we thought” and “we were forced to abandon the iceberg, because it was melting so fast.”

    This clown has no intention of staying on an iceberg through the winter of 2015/16, by that time he will be on a highly publicised roadshow, extolling alarmist theories.

    Like so much of ‘climate science’, this stunt is full of fraudulent intent.


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    Simon Hopkinson

    Icebergs have a nasty habit of melting from underneath, becoming top-heavy and rolling over. If he’s really lucky it won’t tip over on his capsule trapping him underneath. REALLY lucky.


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    Radical Rodent

    It depends upon exactly where he boards the ’berg; if my memory serves me right, too close to the Greenland coast and the ’berg will still be moving Northwards, and could take a year or two to head South in the Labrador Current. 300 kg of rations will not last that long; then there is what about the mounting pile of his excrement. Then there is the inherent instability in melting ’bergs; he may have no choice in abandoning, as he just gets shrugged off. THEN there is the monumental arrogance that he will just abandon ’berg and wait to be rescued, thus potentially drawing at least one other person into a scene of extreme jeopardy, just to rescue our “intrepid” hero. Who will be opening a book on the odds that this will end up as farcical as the Ship of Fools earlier this year?


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      Tim

      Whoever financed this PR event could not let him come to harm. It would reflect on them. What’s the bet he has a team there supporting him.


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      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        You’re expecting intelligent planning Tim.
        He’s taking 600kg of dried food for a year. Even without any experience in such ventures, I would seriously question that. What about water, heat, light, bears, and some sort of life line for rescue.

        The article says he’s just going to float around until some hapless person rescues him. Does that sound like a good plan Tim? And just who would be in a position to rescue said idiot except major shipping. Somebody going somewhere at cost, has to turn around and recue this idiot because of his excellent planning skills.

        This has “The Turney Adventure” written all over it.


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  • #

    Regular readers of this blog will know that the great wiki editor William Connolley has recently taken to enlightening us with his great wisdom and deep learning.
    I have decided to look into his claims.
    First was that his opinions of a legal case – the one of Mann v Steyn and the National Review – were far superior to those in the briefs of a number of concerned parties. I invite you to compare and contrast his arguments with those of the legal briefs here.
    Then, on another blog, he claimed that people who questioned climate change were not “skeptics”. He directed people to a 2004 blog posting, where he boasts of changing the definition of the word on both dictionary.com and wikipedia. See if Connolley’s definition matches up to that of the leading experts here.
    The common theme is that one individual refuses to accept the authority of established expert opinion.


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      manalive

      My definition of a ‘climate skeptic [sic]’ is someone who still holds to the opinion contained in the IPCC First Assessment Report (FAR) 1990 as follows:

      Our judgement is that: global mean surface air temperature has increased by 0.3 to 0.6 oC over the last 100 years…; The size of this warming is broadly consistent with predictions of climate models, but it is also of the same magnitude as natural climate variability. Thus the observed increase could be largely due to this natural variability; alternatively this variability and other human factors could have offset a still larger human-induced greenhouse warming. The unequivocal detection of the enhanced greenhouse effect is not likely for a decade or more.

      Two and a half decades later that “effect” is even harder to detect.


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      Roy Hogue

      So Connolley becomes complicit in Mann’s dishonesty?

      Well, Connoley’s comments here didn’t exactly earn him respect and his character certainly suffered for it.

      But it’s Mann who concerns me most. He chooses to fight by dragging his critics through the courts as punishment rather than stand up and debate his position openly. And the courts have not caught up with issues involving judgments about scientific expertise and opinion. That’s the scary one.


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        the Griss

        “So Connolley becomes complicit in Mann’s dishonesty?”

        If there is dishonesty about, you can expect the WC to be there.

        That is what he does.

        That is who he is.


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      • #

        So Connolley becomes complicit in Mann’s dishonesty?

        That is not my conclusion. Connolley just states his opinions, and dogmatically ignores anybody else. See his comments on the Mann libel trial.
        http://manicbeancounter.com/2014/08/14/william-connolley-supports-the-climate-faith-against-expert-opinions/
        On his manipulation of the definition of the word “skeptic” in 2004, I believe that he gave a lead to John Cook and Tamino. Seem my comment.
        However, please reach your own conclusions and let others compare and contrast the different opinions.


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          Roy Hogue

          Kevin,

          Complicit may not be the best choice of words. But in the end I think he winds up being in support of Mann.

          The apparent inability of the courts to uphold the First Amendment without having to put up a fight is the far greater issue. When real slander or libel are involved then let’s allow redress through the courts. But Mann is clearly a figure who doesn’t have the ordinary level of protections that I might have if I alleged libel or slander. It bothers me that SLAPP (anti SLAPP) laws are required to uphold the First Amendment protection of legitimate dissent and criticism. Scientific orthodoxy merits no greater protection than political orthodoxy.

          Plowing through the legalese is no job for amateurs by the way. But I got through Steyn’s Amicus Curiae brief and it’s anything but brief. It looks like the actual argument Steyn makes is no more than a paragraph or two, then it’s repeated for every different court that made a finding similar to what he’s asking for. How in this world do lawyers and judges keep their sanity? Tell ‘em what you’re gonna tell ‘em. Then tell ‘em. Then tell ‘em what you told ‘em. Then add as many references and other citations as you can find. It’s as though they all get paid by the vertical inch of paperwork they generate (maybe that’s why it’s double spaced? ;-) ). I watched this play out in a courtroom once as I sat in the jury box. Four days to get about one day of actual information about the case…


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      James Bradley

      William Conolly is the L. Ron Hubbard of our times… or maybe the Rev Jim Jones, it all depends on how many die as a result of following his religeon.


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      Andrew McRae

      Nah. A skeptic is someone who applies skepticism to an issue. Skepticism is knowing what it would take to change your opinion on a specific issue. It’s got nothing to do with being in conflict with an authority or a consensus.

      People who claim to be “climate skeptics” but don’t know what evidence would have to surface to move them into the warmist camp are not really skeptics, just people who climbed onto the climate skeptic bandwagon for all the wrong reasons.
      Being an iconoclast doesn’t make you a skeptic.

      Skeptics may have different standards and change their beliefs on the same issue at different times as long as they all are conscious of the limited and conditional tenacity of their own beliefs.

      Skeptic(P,X) ==> “Person P doesn’t believe proposition X because the evidence known to them would need to meet standard S(P,X) first.”


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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        I am with you Andrew, you sum it up nicely.

        Authority and consensus are terms describing human interaction. Fine, if you are a Psychologist or Sociologist, or a Political Scientist.

        But those concepts have no place in the physical sciences, of which Climatology, Meteorology, and Atmospheric Physics, are a part.


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    Roy Hogue

    And here I was, thinking stupidity was thriving in Brussels. But this takes the grand prize.

    I hope to forget him as soon as possible and leave him to his own devices. I’ve better things to do. I could watch the grass grow and it would have more entertainment value than watching his iceberg melt.

    By the way, what exactly is an adventurer? Is there some useful job in there somewhere?

    And no one should worry about his safety. Like the bunch who got stranded in the Antarctic ice a while back, someone will surely spend no end of effort to save this guy if he gets into trouble.

    I wonder how many meals the price of this “adventure” could buy for those who need the help. How much heating could it provide to someone who can’t afford to heat their home because of this same climate change BS?


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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      My kingdom (such as it is) for a little common sense. :-(


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        Yonniestone

        Or very much now is the winter of our discontent, while fools like this Bellini harp on about their perceived imbalances in the world they completely miss the real ones that actually make tragic impacts on people.
        I hope people in the USA can see that their president is more concerned with closing down life giving power plants and threatening them with militarized police than addressing another very cold winter approaching.


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        Annie

        Common sense is poorly named as it is so uncommon.


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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          I’ve thought repeatedly that the term, common sense, is an oxymoron. I just don’t know a good term to replace it with. Is it good judgment vs. bad? Is it wisdom vs. foolishness? Or maybe it’s smart vs. stupid.

          Whatever it is, it’s something that, like my suggestions for it, can only have a meaning relative to something else. It needs to be measurable, even if the measurement is only subjective.

          Success comes to mind. The word means nothing if you cannot also fail. And common sense has no recognized polar opposite like the other terms. We never say common nonsense, do we?

          Perhaps we should.


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      Rereke Whakaaro

      The concept of Adventurer, started life as another word for Pirate, Soldier of Fortune, or Mercenary. In other words, somebody who seeks power, wealth, or social rank by unscrupulous or questionable means.


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    Steve McDonald

    Another way to make money and gain fame by using a pack of lies as a premise.


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    the Griss

    I’m not even going to bother looking at the video, but so long as he does it dressed as he is in the still shot, I say, let him go for it.


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    manalive

    My objective is reporting and investigating, by means of scientific methods, the entire lifetime of an iceberg. I want to prove how the pace of ice-melting has dramatically accelerated over the last decades …

    Hmmm sounds about right.
    The ‘scientific method’ as practiced in Climate Change™ ‘science’ is to assume a priori the result of what you claim to be investigating.


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      the Griss

      Furthermore, he obviously has data which gives previous rates of melting. NOT !

      And of course, his presence there, probably with heaters, (fossil fool driven of course), tents and enclosures etc etc won’t have any effect on the melting of the ice, will it. ! DOH !!!


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      Ceetee

      He wants to prove himself both right and righteous.


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    george

    Lock him up in an Institution for the criminally insane before he endangers his rescuers.<:o)


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      cohenite

      Too late but Chris Turney will rescue him; Turney is an expert.


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        Roy Hogue

        Since Chris Turney specifically mentioned that they intended to determine how much the Antarctic had changed since first discovered it’s important to remember that the degree to which something has changed over time is not a measure of anything except that things change over time.

        The ridge line I can see from my kitchen window changes with time. All you can say about it in both cases is, “So what?”

        To ascribe some meaning to the change you need to have some evidence of the cause or the impact of it, if not both. They have neither as far as I can tell. And who or what really cares if the ice is more or less than when Antarctica was discovered?

        I’ll agree with anyone that we’ve dumped a lot of trash and chemical pollution in our oceans and doing something about that would be very beneficial in the long run. Unfortunately I doubt that the expedition in question would have resulted in anything but complaints and a demand that someone else fix the problems.


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    bazza

    Let’s hope that when the berg melts and he is adrift at sea he is picked up by the aus navy and taken to manus island and then sent to iraq what a plonker.


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    lj

    Every iceberg ought to have one activist present.Their screams for help would alert shipping to imminent danger.Whales should also be considered.


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    DT

    Maybe the Ship Of Fools could visit him and hold a Barbecue Party?


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    bobl

    Insane, what pray tell is this idiot giong to do in the inevitable polar storm. I suppose we’ll fly him off at public expense? Maybe Greenpiss should foot the bill for this eco-nuttery


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      Safetyguy66

      You know the taxpayer will be putting big dollars into this one way or the other.

      These people have no conscience, no values, no regard for the fellow man and most importantly no effing idea.


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      Roy Hogue

      Certainly whoever is footing the bill for this little adventure should be held financially accountable for the rescue if it’s needed.


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        Roy Hogue

        What if they were required to put up a deposit for the estimated maximum cost of a rescue expedition? Wouldn’t that cool off their enthusiasm a bit? Voila! Common sense might return. If no rescue was necessary or if it proved less expensive, then refund the excess. Sounds fair to me all around.


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    Safetyguy66

    I strongly encourage everyone to donate as much as they can afford to his efforts. Lets keep in mind that polar bears are in high numbers right now so they need all the food we can send them.


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    Yonniestone

    It’s a bit difficult to figure out if this Alex Bellini is clever or just your garden variety nuckin futs eco activist.

    He’s got a very good intense stare though, he could create his own cult on that stare alone.

    Ok ideas for Alex’s new cult, I’ll start with the ‘ICEBORG PEOPLE’


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    TedM

    What an ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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    jorgekafkazar

    Crazy publicity stunt or stroke of daring stupidity? We’re not sure…


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    Neville

    Meanwhile Antarctica continues to set all kinds of records. Record cold measurements, record ice extent, etc.

    http://notrickszone.com/2014/08/23/dramatic-antarctic-freeze-up-iciest-decade-ever-on-record-every-decade-icier-than-the-previous/


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      FIN

      Neville, I think the net ice losses might be the issue rather than particular anomalies.

      Coauthor and glaciologist Prof. Dr. Angelika Humbert further explained in the news release:
      “The loss of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet has in the same time span increased by a factor of 3. Combined the two ice sheets are thinning at a rate of 500 cubic kilometres per year. That is the highest speed observed since altimetry satellite records began about 20 years ago.”

      The combined ice sheets referred to here are Greenland and Antarctica.


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        FIN

        So much for a cooling trend eh? I think Maurice Newman might want to talk to an expert rather than some brainless shock jock.


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          Robert

          You say “So much for a cooling trend eh?” yet you have shown nothing that establishes that there is no cooling trend. Since you mention experts I’m sure you must have some data from one of them you can provide to prove your point.

          You mention brainless shock jocks as you proceed to act like one, go figure.


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            FIN

            I guess Robert that the ice pretty much speaks for itself is the point. Or are you going to suggest that the ice has formed a left wing conspiracy of its own making? Not sure how you can deny this, it’s in the satellite record. You could say that the satellite record is wrong but on what basis would you make that claim? Cos you “feel” like it is maybe? If you don’t trust that have a look at some of the time lapse photographic stuff produced showing massive glacial retreating around the world. Google it, it is stunning and undeniable.

            …cue; insults from the Griss……


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              FIN

              James Balog is the guy that did the time lapse stuff. As I said, google it, it is stunning. This is science you can see with your own eyes. But then I guess the Griss will insist it was filmed in a parking lot out the back of Hollywood, probably by some Kenyan guy.


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              • #
                the Griss

                “probably by some Kenyan guy’

                Oh, has Obama moved to Hollywood..?


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                TedM

                Fin you seem to talk a lot. How about actually saying something.


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                Roy Hogue

                Griss,

                Obama doesn’t need to move to Hollywood. He’s a one man Hollywood everywhere he goes. His every word and action are nothing but nonstop jokes. He doesn’t even need a script writer to be a joke.

                Tragically, he’s also The President of The United States of America. :-(

                If there was a crying face available I would use it instead of the frown.


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              the Griss

              Why would I bother.. Your posts are empty rhetoric.

              They contain nothing.


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              the Griss

              Glaciers have been retreating since the LIA..

              If you would prefer the condition of the LIA, move to Siberia. or Antarctica.


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              the Griss

              Did you know they find tree stumps under some retreating glaciers.. even in the far north ?


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              the Griss

              And here is a nice quote about the rabid alarmista’s little movie,..

              This is an utter and complete distortion of the truth and the real reasons for the speedy decline of the Columbia Glacier. While on the surface, most people might relate “warmth with ice melting,” this is NOT what has happened at all with Columbia. It is a horrible distortion and is outright dishonest.

              According to NASA: “Climate change may have given the Columbia an initial nudge off of the moraine, but what has accelerated its disintegration has more to do with mechanical processes than warming temperatures. In fact, when the Columbia reaches the shoreline, its retreat will likely slow down. The more stable surface will cause the rate of calving to decline, making it possible for the glacier to start rebuilding a moraine and advancing once again.” (http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/WorldOfChange/columbia_glacier.php)


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                FIN

                Cherry picking again Griss? Come on you can do better than that. So what’s going on with Ilulissat then or all the others around the globe? Anyway I thought according to Monkers that all glaciers were gaining mass around the world? Who you gonna believe, Monkers or your own lying eyes?


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                the Griss

                Another empty post from Fin. :-)

                You continue with your zero meaningless output.


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                the Griss

                And please, do try to put something a bit more coherent together when you post.

                Your post is mindless gibberish.


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                Greg Cavanagh

                Griss, try to resist their taunts. They know you like to bite.


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                Rereke Whakaaro

                Greg is right Gris.

                FIN presents no scientific evidence* to support the presented supposition, only a press release, followed by carefully selected examples, from different time periods. It is journeyman propaganda stuff, and fairly obvious to those of us who have been in the melee for a while.

                * Evidence, to exist, must meet the demands of probity, replicability, traceability, and a recognisable chain of custody. FIN’s utterances have none of that.


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                the Griss

                “They know you like to bite.”

                :-) :-)


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                Roy Hogue

                Griss,

                Besides that, less precipitation always leads to retreat of a glacier and retreat in general of the snow pack on any mountain that stays permanently frozen (as in Kilimanjaro).

                It’s very easy to jump to conclusions and not so easy to determine what’s actually happening. Hence the jumping is always the first thing done. Finding out what’s really going on may not happen for a long time, if ever.

                To be honest I’m not very confident in NASA because they have too much incentive to support the cause.


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    TdeF

    Can’t wait to read his daily log from the iceberg. It was cold last night. Today the same. Maybe some wind tomorrow. Saw nothing. No one came over. Half way though my food. Walking less. A bit down. Same path as yesterday. Snow. This is me in front of my snowman. He doesn’t talk much, which is fine. No snow. Wind again. Riveting stuff.

    Life is wasted on some people. Possibly also the people who will follow this story of high boring adventure with no real risk and with the certainty that he can call for a very expensive rescue if anything actually dangerous happens. This is the new media adventure where existence is everything, but with no intention of actually doing anything at all or going anywhere. Perhaps he can learn a new language or take those piano lessons? All for the incredibly important Save the Global Warming campaign, as icebergs are caused by Global Warming you know.


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      Safetyguy66

      Im wondering what hes gonna do if a group of seals or something want to share… Still as a “child of the universe” I guess they will all just hug or something.


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        Yonniestone

        Ah Greenland, where a man and a seal can have an open relationship.


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        Roy Hogue

        Never mind a seal.

        What if a poor Polar Bear, lost at sea and about to drown might try to board his berg. Maybe he needs (oh that awful word) a gun — a big one for Polar Bears.

        Note to Al Gore: Be sure your minions are patrolling the North Atlantic and prevent any harm to a Polar Bear while this adventure is going on. Remember, you have a vested interest now.


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          Roy Hogue

          Or would that be a good time for him to bail out and call for rescue? Bad situation either way I think.


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          Roy Hogue

          Polar Bears do exist in Greenland and are known to swim between Greenland and Canada. I got this direct from the director of Environment Canada, so it’s authoritative for the purpose of this blog.

          ————————————–

          Which fact, of course, makes the assertion of Polar Bears drowning as absurd as anything can get.


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    DT

    I trust that Tim is preparing his “tinny” for a rescue voyage.


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      James Bradley

      DT,

      See, rather than risk his professional integrity life on such an expedition, someone should invent something that can can just be placed at a remote location and, like, takes readings and samples and stuff, and monitors temperatures and rates of melt and sends the data via satellite to a receiver at a much more comfortable place and they could call it an Automated Weather Station…


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      Rereke Whakaaro

      Does anybody know which swimming pool this is being staged in? Or are they negotiating to use the film stage from Kevin Costner’s Waterworld?


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  • #
    RexAlan

    Will he be taking a gun with him on the iceberg? I hope so because those polar bears might find him very tasty.


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    • #
      ROM

      Rex Alan @ # 31

      “Will he be taking a gun with him on the iceberg? I hope so because those polar bears might find him very tasty.”

      Definitely not a silly question!

      A good friend of mine who was the guy tasked with placing Australia’s contribution to the world’s food plants seed stock that are kept in the Millennium Seed Vault in Svalsbard [ "Spitzbergen" to us oldies ] way up north of Norway as  the last and ultimate reserve of human food plants if some major catastrophe should strike our race or even just wipe out some specific and critical food plant types and wipe them out globally, those seed stocks would still be there deep frozen in that seed vault way up there in Svalsbard and only 1300 kms from the North Pole or a bit less in distance from the Pole than the 1400 kms from Adelaide to Sydney .

      [ As an example one of the major central global pulse breeding centres was located in Syria as that was the original home of those pulse species. No doubt all those varieties in thier colections are gone now and for some quite rare wild types and ancient farmer selected types [ "landraces" ] used for breeding the latest varieties are now gone possibly forever unless there are some small stocks in the Millenium Vault or in other national collections around the world.]

      Tony told me how in Svalbard today, nobody goes anywhere without having at least one rifle in the group in case they come across a Polar Bear which are renown for their aggression.
      And their numbers have increased so dramatically that they have become a real danger to anybody alone or even just a couple out walking..

      The first couple of shots are to scare or try to scare the bear off.
      If the bear keeps coming then it is shoot to try and kill. If you don’t get that right then you are in very deep bear ****.


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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Rex,

      You stole my line. ;-)

      Well, not really since you said it first. But a Polar Bear is definitely one possibility.


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  • #
    john robertson

    Feed the bears.
    I figure this clown did not watch the Timothy Treadwell Saga.
    Gun? No way, these cultists cite the “Endangered Polar Bear as a symptom of CAGW.
    There is no way the RCMP could allow this loon access to a firearm and ammo at the same time.
    I figure his interaction with the sea ice wildlife will be short and semi nutritious for the wildlife.


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    • #
      James Bradley

      John,

      Just another w#nker – within the first 5 hours he’ll be drinking his urine and eating plastic wrappers to survivie.


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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Not so sure about the plastic wrappers there, James. At least fresh urine is sterile. Who can say how many people have put their grubby fingers all over the wrappers … yuck.


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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Urine may be sterile (or maybe not) but it’s 100% dangerous to try to drink it. The first rule of survival at sea is never drink urine. It will do you in faster than dehydration.

          The only thing worse is sea water because of the high salt content which dehydrates you even more instead of relieving it as you might think it will do.


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  • #
    gnome

    Wouldn’t it be nice if we could see the full schedule of supplies he takes for his year on the ice.

    All those fossil fuels for cooking, keeping warm, communications and handling emergencies, the chemicals (or not!) for handling waste disposal, and above all, the little luxuries enabled by affluence- computer, books, minor electronic devices- all the things he would deny to the people of the third world.

    I would be more impressed, if he signed a prior binding declaration that he will refuse any taxpayer-funded rescue when things go wrong. I suspect we won’t hear anything more from this clown until the taxpayer funded rescue. Then, the ABC and the official 97% will laud him as a hero, and the world as a whole will scoff at him for his stupidity- a bit like the whole global warming conversation now.


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    • #
      Ice cool Lank

      Good point Gnome,

      Without all of the benefits from fossil fuels which will contribute to his shelter, warmth, food, communications, travel (and I suspect his rescue)he would not last a week. I bet there is a camera (and crew?)on board for the ride.

      Maybe Tony could send a load of our boat ‘refugees’ over to camp with him!!

      As a gesture of support, Australia could arrange for one of those cuddly polley bears to be put on his berg – before they become extinct.


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  • #
    Uncle Gus

    The solution to all those queries in previous comments; easy – he’s not really going to do it. He will either

    a) Sit on it for two weeks, at the end of which time something will happen to force him to give up, and everyone will say what a brave try it was, or

    b) Get secretly airlifted off once the media have gone, and put back one year later, or

    c) Simply take all the sponsorship money and run.

    It’s simply not possible to live on an iceberg for a year.


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  • #
    Mike Smith

    Has this guy really thought it through? He’s setting himself up for a Darwin Award if he freezes to death while protesting global warming.


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  • #
    David Archibald

    Norman Lindsay’s “The Magic Pudding”, which starts out on an iceberg, will be used as the procedure manual for this expedition.


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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Anyone who is an admirer of Norman Lindsay should try and visit his birthplace Creswick central Victoria where a small museum pays homage to him and his family.


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  • #
    Eugene WR Gallun

    Wouldn’t it be cosmic justice if this guy got eaten by a polar bear?

    Eugene WR Gallun


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    • #
      Gregorio

      If anything good comes from this, perhaps his contribution to saving the polar bears, by offering himself up to the great cuddly beast as a simple morsel of food.


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  • #
    ROM

    Others have lived for some tens of thousands of years past the way this bozo says he intends to live. But I wonder if he has the faintest idea on how those Inuit peoples lived and survived over all those ages past.
    The modern Inuit no longer live like their ancestors so to read through the old first contact with the inuit peoples by the early european explorers and how they relied totally on those Inuit guides to survive is quite fascinating.

    For a glimpse of this and in here is something I read about many years ago, the constructing of a perfectly good sledge from nothing but frozen fish.;
    I really wonder how many of us with all our supposed superior education and supposedly vast store of accumulated knowledge would have the lateral thinking abilities to first conceive of such a sledge construction when in dire circumstances and then have the simple in concept, very sophisticated in reality knowledge to construct such a sledge today?

    [ quoted from the above article ;]

    “The four dead-tired men had just fallen asleep when a ruckus jolted them wide awake.
    Outside, the sledge dogs had broken loose and were fighting among themselves over Awack’s sledge.
    His sledge, like many Inuit wintertime sledges, had been constructed entirely of frozen fish and deer.
    To build it, Awack had formed the two seven-foot-long runners from narrow cylinders of salmon wrapped in skins and tied with thongs.
    He then plated the surface of the runners with a two-inch thick layer of mossy earth and water, which he polished to a slick finish with a bearskin rag moistened with water and saliva. The crossbars were constructed from frozen loins of deer.
    The method provided a wonderfully efficient way to carry emergency provisions and made a tempting feast for the dogs.
    Fortunately, the men awoke in time to stop the dogs, and Awack was able to salvage his edible sledge.


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    • #
      ROM

      OOPS! Finger trouble. Missed / deleted the article Title and url

      Inuit Contact and Colonization


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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      ROM,

      Good point. But the Inuit were not restricted to the range consisting of the top surface of one iceberg. And it’s likely that they migrated into the far north slowly enough that they could learn and adapt as they went.

      This guy better be one sharp Boy Scout and BE PREPARED or be risking his life. Anything he suddenly needs to learn the hard way will likely be a big problem.


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  • #
    Diogenes

    Dear fellow Novans,
    today I announce my great quest to demonstrate the effects of CO2 on the massive epidemic of ingrown toenails. To prove my thesis I will ride the dirtiest public transport I can find (that would be every preserved steam railway) in the world and ride behind every loco in the collection to gather air quality samples & determine if that gives me ingrown toenails.

    Please help
    Diogenes

    Seriously it has already been “done” by late great Tony Curtis, Jack Lemmon, Natalie Wood and Peter Falk The Great Race. (sorry I couldn’t find the Polar bear scene) Damn I must be getting old they are all dead and it was the first movie I ever went to the movies to see sigh


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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Diogenes,

      Having spent a lot of time riding behind steam locomotives I can categorically state that it doesn’t cause an increase in the rate of ingrown toenails. So that experiment is already done.

      It does lead to: smoke inhalation, soot, ashes and dust in your eyes, not to mention all over you and generally ending the trip a lot dirtier than when you started.

      You will also have had something of an adventure in the process. Which I think is the point of this thread in the first place. And you will have been a whole lot safer than riding icebergs — Polar Bears do not ride trains. So go for it.

      Roy


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    pat

    he might want to consider this:

    22 Aug: UK Express: Nathan Rao: Icelandic volcano could trigger Britain’s coldest winter EVER this year
    BRITAIN could freeze in YEARS of super-cold winters and miserable summers if the Bardarbunga volcano erupts, experts have warned.
    The British Met Office said the effects of an explosion on Britain’s weather depends on the wind direction in the upper atmosphere.
    Spokeswoman Laura Young said: “If the upper winds are north-westerly it will have an effect on our weather.
    “If the upper winds are westerly then it won’t.”….
    Weathermen say the effect in the UK could be nothing short of catastrophic if an explosion is strong enough…
    Dr Nicolas Bellouin, an expert on atmospheric dust clouds at the University of Reading, said: “The current cold snap many of us are experiencing in the UK is due to the fact that at the moment the wind is coming from the north – putting Britain directly in the firing line of any volcanic eruption from Iceland, if it happens in the next few days…
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/502349/Iceland-ash-cloud-could-trigger-freezing-cold-winter-this-year-if-it-erupts


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    • #
      Tim

      pat;

      Not just him or the UK. It could affect all of us if it comes near to the big one: The Krakatoa Volcano eruption in 1883.

      Average global temperatures were up to 1.2 degrees cooler for the next five years.


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    ROM

    Quoted from Pat’s post # 38 above;

    “BRITAIN could freeze in YEARS of super-cold winters and miserable summers if the Bardarbunga volcano erupts, experts have warned.”

    Frankly I am bloody sick to eye teeth of bloody so called EXPERTS warning of this disaster or that disaster or some other EXPERT created and invented disaster, all of which never happen or we just get on with life and adapt to what ever so called EXPERT invented disaster happens to be on the books at the moment.

    If you believed all the bloody garbage all the so called EXPERTS fed up to us then we would have ceased to exist as species quite a lot of centuries ago.

    Just lock all the bloody EXPERTS up in a zoo somewhere so that future generations can come and view how not to run a civilisation.

    End of rant!


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    Dennis

    A group of people travelling in a passenger train carriage were discussing the sinking of the Titanic, one claimed that it was sunk by Jews and the others quickly pointed out that it was an Iceberg that caused it to sink. The man who made the claim was not deterred, he replied Ïceberg, Goldberg, it matters not what the name is”.


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  • #
    pat

    as this is also unthreaded, some hypocrisy from the faux CAGW crowd:

    16 Aug: MercoPress: Billionaire Soros becomes the fourth largest holder of YPF shares
    George Soros’s 28 billion family office boosted its stake in YPF SA, making Argentina’s largest oil company its biggest U.S.-traded stock holding in the second quarter. Soros Fund Management LLC added 8.47 million shares of YPF, according to a regulatory filing Thursday, bringing its total position to 3.5% of the company’s American depositary receipts.
    The position was worth 450 million dollars at the end of June, making Soros the fourth biggest holder. Perry Capital, the 10.9 billion hedge-fund firm run by Richard Perry, and Dan Loeb’s Third Point LLC also added significantly to YPF in the second quarter…
    On Thursday YPF said it discovered oil at a well in the Agrio formation in southwestern Patagonia, the third shale find in the country in four years. Agrio is in the Neuquen basin, the site of Vaca Muerta, the world’s second-biggest shale gas deposit and fourth-biggest shale oil deposit.
    http://en.mercopress.com/2014/08/16/billionaire-soros-becomes-the-fourth-largest-holder-of-ypf-shares

    14 Aug: SNL: Dan Lowery: Billionaire investor George Soros opens new $234M stake in CONSOL Energy
    Billionaire investor George Soros has opened a new equity stake in coal and gas producer CONSOL Energy Inc., purchasing about 5.1 million shares of the company in the second quarter valued at $234.4 million, according to a Form 13F-HR filed Aug. 14 with the SEC…
    CONSOL is one of the largest independent natural gas exploration, development and production companies and also operates coal mines in Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Virginia…
    http://www.snl.com/InteractiveX/Article.aspx?cdid=A-28914549-11305

    6 Aug: The Hill: White House adviser met with billionaires Steyer, Soros
    By Laura Barron-Lopez
    Adviser to President Obama John Podesta met with billionaires Tom Steyer and George Soros for a lunchtime meeting at the White House in February, according to meeting records.
    The White House visitor documents show that shortly after Steyer had committed to spend upward of $100 million on the 2014 election cycle for environmentally friendly candidates who helped put climate change on the map, he met with Podesta and Soros.
    The three met to discuss global climate change negotiations, and the process of the 2015 United Nations climate change convention to be held in Paris, a White House official told The Hill in an email…
    http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/214486-white-house-adviser-met-with-billionaires-steyer-soros


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    pat

    oil/fracking/coal billionaires are cool, if u call them “progressive”:

    13 Aug: The Nation: Gara LaMarche: How the Left Is Revitalizing Itself
    There’s more collaboration between progressive groups—and more coordination among donors—than ever before
    At the outset of this effort, in the run-up to and aftermath of the 2004 presidential election, I had a ringside seat as an aide to George Soros, who played a crucial role…
    Progressive foundations such as Open Society, unions like the Service Employees’ International Union (SEIU), consortiums of funders like the Democracy Alliance, and strategic individual donors—for example, Herb Sandler and his late wife Marion, who were among the people providing substantial early capital for the Center for American Progress (CAP)—have built new institutions to fill in the gaps on the progressive side, as well as strengthened the capacity and sustainability of some key organizations that were already in place…
    ***Not long ago, a significant segment of the environmental movement was anti-immigration on population-control grounds…
    Yet in the current push for immigration reform, a number of environmental leaders and their organizations have spoken out.
    Phil Radford, who recently stepped down as executive director of Greenpeace, wrote on the Huffington Post: “Undocumented workers are among the most vulnerable workers in our society, from their exposure to toxic pesticides and chemicals in agricultural work and manufacturing, to their isolation in pollution-choked neighborhoods caring for vulnerable families and children. Every human being deserves the dignity and right to stand up to polluters in the workplace and at home without fear of being deported and taken from their families.”
    And Bill McKibben of 350.org wrote in the Los Angeles Times that “immigrants, by definition, are full of hope. They’ve come to a new place determined to make a new life, risking much for opportunity. They’re confident that new kinds of prosperity are possible. The future beckons them, and so changes of the kind we’ll need to deal with climate change are easier to conceive.”…
    http://www.thenation.com/article/180987/how-left-revitalizing-itself


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    Adrian O

    What if Titanic II, full of AGW fellows wanting to sail through the ice free Arctic to make a point, hits his iceberg?


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  • #
    George Green

    This stunt has a positive side.
    This idiot will be removed from the potential breeding pool for at least a year. No doubt there is at least one human being on the planet who will be very grateful for that.


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    Peter C

    Two weeks ago on the unthreaded weekend I asked whether the Green house Gas Effect Theory (GHGET)makes any predictions which could be tested empirically? There were several replies. some of which related to the predictions of the Global Circulation Models, which are based on the GHGET and which underpin the notion that increasing CO2 in the atmosphere has caused a supposed amount of Global Warming since 1850 of about 1C.

    I now put forward a proposal for a laboratory experiment to test the GHGET for comment:
    1. A thermos flask, after the silvering has been removed, consists of a vessel, with a narrow neck and a double glass wall separated by a gap of about 5mm.

    2. Heat loss from the flask can be measured by filling with hot water and recording the temperature over time with an alcohol thermometer.

    3. For heat to escape from the inner flask it must pass the gap between the 2 walls, either by conduction or radiation or both. The heat loss is the sum of conduction and radiation.

    4. When the gap is filled with a non radiative gas (eg O2) the radiative component of heat loss can be calculated from the surface area of the inner flask and the Stefan Boltzman equation. Q=es(T1^4-T2^4), where e is the emissivity of glass (0.9), s is the SB constant, T1 is the temperature of the inner glass wall and T2 is the temperature of the outer glass wall.

    5. If the gap contains a radiative green house gas the GHGE theory says that the radiative heat loss should be reduced. Specifically radiation is absorbed by the gas and re-radiated, approximately 1/2 outward and 1/2 back to the inner wall. In the best case of a gas which absorbs all the radiation before it gets to the outer wall the radiation heat loss should be reduced by 1/2.

    6. A variety of green house gases are readily available, including CO2, CH4(natural gas) and water vapour. Perhaps a mixture of these gases would cover the majority of the IR spectrum.

    Any comments are welcome.
    In particular can anyone help with the proportion of the IR spectrum from a Black Body at 80-100C which might be intercepted by a layer of greenhouse gas 5mm thick at 1 Atmosphere pressure (1Bar).


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    Tim

    At least he will be doing his bit for animal welfare. Those endangered and hungry Polar Bears Gore spoke of could sure use some extra protein.


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    Retired now

    I’m having a “discussion” with my daughter. She was quoting the reasonably recent Catalyst program which said that the Antarctic is melting. That although there was more sea ice twice as much land ice had melted leaving a net massive loss of ice down there. Can anyone provide me with something to respond to this?


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    • #
      manalive

      Someone may be able to direct you ‘Retired now’ to relevant information but my response to all the scare stories around polar ice (for what it’s worth as a layman) is that atmospheric CO2 does not melt ice.
      Melting polar ice is a red herring.
      Warming atmosphere melts ice as we all know and the long-term temperature data from Antarctic and Arctic show nothing alarming happening.


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    • #
      Peter C

      Wkipaedia broadly agrees with Catalyst
      http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_ice_sheet

      All I can add is that Catalyst is prone to present as certain facts issues which are controversial and with great uncertainties. The number of studies which have been performed are very few and the potential errors are not given, but are likely very large. The very few papers are written by Climate Scientists and published in journals which have a an interest in one sided presentation of Global Warming.

      You may have to concede to your daughter for the time being that published studies seem to support some loss of Antarctic Ice.

      On the other hand sea level rise , which is supposed to be a result of Antarctic Ice melting is not in fact accelerating. Dr Nils Axel Morner says sea levels are not rising at all.
      http://joannenova.com.au/2012/12/are-sea-levels-rising-nils-axel-morner-documents-a-decided-lack-of-rising-seas/


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      FIN

      http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/08/22/3474657/greenland-west-antarctic-ice-sheet-loss/

      Here’s a link “Retired now”. Unfortunately it shows your daughter knows more about it than you do.


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    • #
      FIN

      http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/08/22/3474657/greenland-west-antarctic-ice-sheet-loss/

      Here’s a link “Retired now”. Unfortunately it shows your daughter knows more about it than you do.


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      • #
        Peter C

        You link to Joe Romm. Should he be believed?

        He at least links to the abstract of a paper:
        “Elevation and elevation change of Greenland and Antarctica derived from CryoSat-2

        V. Helm, A. Humbert, and H. Miller
        Glaciology Section, Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research, Bremerhaven, Germany

        Abstract. This study focuses on the present-day surface elevation of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets. Based on 3 years of CryoSat-2 data acquisition we derived new elevation models (DEMs) ……The combined volume change of Greenland and Antarctica for the observation period is estimated to be −503 ± 107 km3 yr−1. Greenland contributes nearly 75% to the total volume change with −375 ± 24 km3 yr−1.

        If we accept anything in this paper (and I will keep an open mind) we see that the error for Antarctica is about the same as the estimated Ice loss.


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        Gregorio

        What was the temperature in the Antarctic at the place where you claim the ice melted? I thought it was too cold at most of the inland places?

        Thanks.


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      Andrew

      It’s probably true. Ask her how many years till it’s gone. (By my count, 380,000 years.)


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      ROM

      Retired now @ # 49

      I prefer to go to a reputable source rather than a hand waving alarmist blog run by arch alarmist Joe Romm for my information.

      The Antarctic continent is about 1.8 times the size of the Australian continent in area
      The 3 month long summer population, not counting tourists or Uni of NSW Ships of Fools personnel who believe that all the ice is melting and then get icebound, run out of icecream and have to be “rescued” thereby severely disrupting other nations limited seasonal Antarctic research, runs to about 2000 researchers and support staff, maintenance and construction teams.

      So I headed to the Australian Antarctic Divisions Ice sheets page which has an alarmist slant to it as well but at least the information is arguably trustworthy within known researched limits.

      The average thickness of the Antarctic continents ice sheets are 2.16 ie 2160 metres.

      [ The peak of Mt Kosciuszko. Australia's highest peak is 2228 metres or very close to the AVERAGE thickness of the Antarctic ice sheet. ]

      The thickest ice of the ice sheet is 4776 metres or getting close to 5 kilometres thick.

      Somehow I think it might be a very long time indeed before all that ice melted or slipped into the ocean via the Antarctic glaciers that have been flowing out of the Antarctic ice sheet into the Southern Ocean for a few tens of millions of years.

      As for the ice sheet slowly melting or what ever it is supposed to be doing. the American Amundsen- Scott South Pole Station has about abandoned their huge dome that originally stood above the ice sheet as it is now close to being buried under the accumulation of ice at the South Pole which is listed as a technical desert as the precipitation is just millimeters per year.
      Even their new station is slowly being drifted up and slowly becoming more ice bound and this in an Antarctic continent that is supposedly losing ice at a dangerous rate if you believe the alarmists.

      Some recent photos taken over the period of the last decade or so of the American Amundsen – Scott South Pole base and the drift ice affecting and starting another cycle of burying yet another station as has happened to a number of other earlier stations around the continent can be found at Drifty Springtimes…

      The for the latest on the Antarctic’s sea ice extent and volume and current record low temperatures, P’ Gosselins’ NoTricksZone blog of 23rd of August has this headline;

      Dramatic Antarctic Freeze Up…Iciest Decade Ever On Satellite Record…Every Decade Icier Than The Previous!

      And even stranger for a continent that is supposedly losing so much ice it might be all gone in another few hundred thousand years or a few tens of millions of years is the temperatures now being recorded on the Antarctic continent.

      Quoted from the NTZ blog again;
      __________________________

      Record low temperatures

      Not only record sea ice extent and volume are telling us that Antractica is cooling dramatically, but so are the thermometers.
      For example last year the National Geographic reported here that NASA had recorded the coldest temperature ever on the Antarctica continent: -136°F.
      [ - 93.33 C ]
      Also the University of Wisconsin, Madison reported that the South Pole Station saw a new record low temperature of -73.8°C (-100.8°F) on June 11, 2012, breaking the previous minimum temperature record of -73.3°C (-99.9°F) set in 1966.

      Just weeks ago CFACT reported that the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) saw a record cold of -55.4°C.

      In 2010 the Neumayer III station, operated by Germany’s Alfred Wegener Institute, recorded the lowest temperature at their Antarctic location in their 29 years of operation. The mercury dropped to -50.2°C.
      [ / ]
      ________________

      For further information particularly on the Arctic but climate generally the Norwegian Climate4you site is very good


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    • #

      Retired now: here’s the Antarctic situation.

      The sea ice is increasing, the ocean warming is not as great as predicted, the temperatures are cooling slightly over Antarctica (on the 30 year scale) but despite all this, West Antarctica is melting. That may be because of the volcanoes underneath it.

      http://joannenova.com.au/2014/05/that-west-antarctic-melting-couldnt-be-caused-by-volcanoes-could-it/
      http://joannenova.com.au/2014/06/surprise-west-antarctic-volcano-melts-ice/


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        FIN

        Yes I agree Jo it might be because of volcanoes or Martian fairy dust or…..? Anyway where is the evidence that Antarctic volcanoes have increased in activity?


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        • #
          The Backslider

          where is the evidence that Antarctic volcanoes have increased in activity?

          Where is the research which shows that anybody knows exactly what is happening there with volcanic activity?

          The fact is that West Antarctica is on The Pacific Ring Of Fire. That should give you a clue.

          Antarctica is setting record cold temperatures. It is definitely not warming (climate wise).


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            FIN

            So if it is not warming then why is the ice melting?


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            • #
              the Griss

              Its melt from UNDERNEATH..

              do..

              you..

              under..

              stand !!!!

              Gees, this guy is as thick as they make ‘em !!!


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            • #
              The Backslider

              So if it is not warming then why is the ice melting?

              Well think about it Fin (if you are able). If the ice is melting ONLY in one particular area, what possibly could be the reason for that?


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            • #
              bobl

              Well it’s not global warming – the problem with warmists like you and Prof. Dr. Angelika Humbert is that you aren’t Engineers, you always ignore ENERGY and make wild guesses about attribution – let’s look at that claim (500 Cubic kilometers of ice loss in 1.97 million square km area is caused by global warming)

              Heat of fusion of water 344J per gram – melting ice absorbs energy = it COOLS the climate, engineers know this.

              500 Cubic km is 5e11 Cubic meters, a cubic meter of ice weighs 919 Kg or 919000 g, so 500 Cubic Km of ice weighs 4.58E17 grams x 344 J/g = 1.58E20 or 158,000,000,000,000,000,000 Joules – that’s a LOT of cooling FIN!

              So let’s now check the energy against the available warming energy of 0.6W per square meter (Trenberth et al)

              Per square meter that’s 1.58E20/1.97E12 = 8e7 (80 Million) Joules per square meter per annum required to melt that much ice.

              That requires a power input of 80/31 = 2.58J/sec (Watts) 24hours a day 7 days a week 365 1/4 days a year even when presumably the atmosphere is sub zero and ice can’t melt.

              This is FIVE times the amount of CO2 energy available even if the ice could melt when the temperature is less than 0C. If we adjust for seasons, then a power input more than 10 times that available from CO2 warming is necessary to melt an extra 500 Cubic km of ICE during the melt season.

              In this one blog post I have singlehandedly demolished completely the claim. Prof. Dr. Angelika Humbert is WRONG, CO2 energy has insufficient energy by a factor of more than 10 to melt that much ice! The claim is therefore FALSIFIED. Conclusion: something else is melting the ice

              Fin, do the math, claims like this pretty much NEVER hold up

              Oh Fin, by the way, if Trenberth’s 0.6W goes into melting ice it CAN’T simultaneously heat the atmosphere so there would be no warming (to melt the ice) this means that something less than 0.6W is available to melt ice, some has to stay in the atmosphere to maintain the elevated temperature. So there is probably no more than 1/20th of the energy necessary to melt 500 Cubic Km of ice over the west antarctic ice sheet available from CO2 warming. I have also not taken into account that large areas of the west antarctic ice sheet are too cold to melt, nor have I accounted the energy to raise the temperature of the ice to 0C from whatever temperature it was originally at. All of these factors will INCREASE the power input required to melt that much ice even further.

              A lesson to all – do the math, always check the energy. Energy out cannot exceed energy in. This claim is just as dumb as the claim that AGW ould increase rainfall 20%. Both claims violate energy conservation, both claims are WRONG.


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                bobl

                PS Retired Now, if you can follow the math, you can use it with your child – Mathematics rules – there can be no argument, West Antarctic ice melt is NOT caused by global warming.


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          Fin,

          Good question. Have you got any data showing they haven’t increased? Seems to me those that declare it is melting because of man made climate change (give us your money) are the ones that ought to have some data.


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        Retired now

        Thanks all.


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      Roy Hogue

      Retired now,

      I think the first thing to tell your daughter is that ice has been building up and melting again for millions of years and it’s normal, even in Antarctica.

      Then ask her, “What do those who tell you to be alarmed stand to gain or lose if you do or do not believe them?” It’s alright to suggest some answers and let the message sink in. But let her reach her conclusions by herself. That way they stick.

      She will ultimately have to learn not so much about the science involved as about how dishonest the human heart can become in search of prestige, fame, power and fortune. The science is also an important thing but realizing when someone wants to lead you around with a ring through your nose is the critical skill. FIN is a good example of that.


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    PeterS

    His act of lunacy will prove nothing other than that he’s a moron. He might as well stand on a bag of ice in the middle of the Australian desert. Yes ice melts. It’s been happening since the beginning of time. So what? In fact if the block of ice he intends to stay on didn’t melt it would give us a sign that we have a real problem threatening the world. Do people like him even have the intelligence above that of a rodent?


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  • #

    It does mention that this Thread is also an Unthreaded, so I hope you don’t mind if I stray onto my pet topic here.

    Just how embarrassing is this woman that she can so totally misrepresent something, and at the same time show up her total ignorance of the English language.

    This week, Pixie Anne Wheatley, sorry the Greens Party Leader Christine Milne went off the brain yet again, railing at Tony Abbott and the possible ‘canning’ of the RET. (Renewable Energy Target)

    Blah blah blah, etc etc ….. looking after his big end of town coal mates so they can get their money when power costs spike to $13,000 per MegaWattHour. (MWH)

    You’d think there might be a clue in that statement somewhere, umm, say the word …..SPIKE, and the the HOUR part of that MWH.

    So then, and yes, it is actually true ….. $13,000 per MWH.

    Okay then, here’s the actual data. from the Australian Regulator AEMO, as shown at this link.

    So here we have 15 full years, and 8 extra Months, so 1550 days in full, and 5 States with 2 scales. In total, that’s 15,500 actual cost structures for what electricity actually costs. So, off you all go then, find me even just ONE which shows $13,000/MWH. (Hint – Don’t bother there aren’t any.)

    So dear leader, Senator Milne, might the, umm, clue here be that word ….. SPIKE and then the word HOUR.

    As Demand increases the grid controller gets on the blower to a new power plant and tells them they need his plant to come on line as soon as possible to top up power generation, enough to be a little bit more than that demand, and the power plant starts the process to deliver that power, and here, as you may imagine, these are subsidiary smaller plants which can come on line at a moments notice, so that immediately cancels out coal fired plants which could take hours to run up, so they just lumber along as they always do, supplying huge amounts of power ALL THE TIME.

    When the plant has run up, and all the procedures are in place to reflect the EXACT conditions of the grid at that time, the plant then begins to supply its power to the grid, and the average power costs then reflect this new plant coming on line, with a spike in costs the instant it happens.

    That spike is an instantaneous vertical spike to $13,000/MWH and then straight back down to the new average price. The spike may last for anything up to 15 seconds or less, just a vertical line on the chart. Say, that 15 second spike then equates to the HOUR part of MWH, in the amount of $13,000 for 15 seconds, usually less than that, but that 15 seconds equates to around, umm, $55 per MWH, a far far distant cry from $13,000.

    Now for the instant prior to, and the instant immediately following, and, umm, the instant this spike actually occurs, every other Plant supplying to the grid is already supplying what they do ….. AT THE EXACT COST they always supply their power for.

    So, a typical large scale coal fired plant will still be selling its power to the grid for its $19 to $22 per MWH, now the CO2 Tax is gone.

    NO ONE gets $13,000 for a MegaWatt of power for a full Hour. NO ONE.

    Now, go to the chart at the link and look at the costs for Queensland for 22nd August, last Friday, a typical work day, and note the two prices, one for the full 24 hours, and the second for the Peak Period, 7AM until 10PM.

    See how the Peak period always costs more. As demand rises, then more and smaller plants come on line, in the main here, Natural Gas plants, with larger costs for generation, and so that average price rises slightly to reflect the new average.

    I picked Queensland because here, we have mostly all coal fired power, hence, as is now quite evident, cheap as chips power, now that the CO2 Tax has gone. Have a look further up that list and note three or four days when the 24 hour price for electricity was lower than $20 per MWH, which equates to under 2 cents per KWH, and compare that with what you pay at retail, here in Queensland, now up beyond 28 cents per KWH plus the fees now altered to reflect a higher charge, which (how convenient) do not show up as cost per KWH, but is still an increased cost for electricity supply.

    This, of itself puts a lie to that graph which came out a couple of weeks back which stated that actual generation costs were up close to 6 cents per KWH, which is $60/MWH, and hey look again at that chart and find me a 24 hour period where electricity costs were above that mark of $60/MWH. Only one State managed this, South Australia, with, umm, all that lovely wind power.

    So where Pixie Anne quotes her $13,000/MWH, well Christine, no one gets that $13,000.

    Senator Milne – FAIL. Monumental fail.

    Isn’t it amazing how you can go somewhere and prove these idiots wrong.

    Tony.


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    John Of Cloverdale WA

    You never know about crazy ideas. Maybe it will open up new ecotourism to many people sick of rainforests or isolated beaches. I give an example of iceberg towing (link below) and how that became a practice to keep oil & gas platforms safe.
    http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/08/the-many-failures-and-few-successes-of-zany-iceberg-towing-schemes/243364/?single_page=true


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    MadJak

    Can’t this guy also invite all the other AGW believers to join him?

    It would be nice having those guys out of the system for a year – each contributing in their own way to melting the iceberg they’re on.

    It would also be extremely ironic.


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    Geoffrey Cousens

    Highly amusing critique by Jo.It will,most probably turn into an extremely expensive rescue,as many have pointed out.


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    Streetcred

    The idiot’s stunt is all about himself … exploiting the Fraud to draw attention his dwindling fortunes. It will soon become even more miserable as he has more chance of ending up as Ötzi the Iceman than the ice-berg has of melting. I certainly hope that he is forced to take out all necessary insurance to pay for his imminent rescue.


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    Ursus Augustus

    Alex Bellini – Professional Narcissistic and Self Promoting Tosser. The latest clown act in the AGW circus …… or is it mime? Mime with anti-social media link?

    Hope he is at least smart enough not to pick one that will turn into a growler! Now THAT will get him on Youtube!

    Imagine the selfie potential…… yeeehaaaaa … glugglugglugglug…. sssspluuttter . heeelllp!!


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    Yonniestone

    James Delingploe recently gave an hilarious insight into Arctic CAGW exploits http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/08/21/Climate-pseuds-sail-to-Arctic-make-movie-praised-in-Salon-disappear-up-own-fundament
    There will be some cringe worthy moments for certain believers in the future and I hope to be there to rub more salt into the wounds and make it uncomfortable as possible….all for the children’s sake of course.


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    The Backslider

    Ok, these are the rules: No fossil fuels of any kind. No products manufactured from petroleum.


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      MadJak

      And no green house gas (rules out flatulence as a result of eating mung beans and lentils)

      Oh and any Exhaled C02 must be stored in an airtight recycled paper bag (with no chemicals used and from proven renewable forests), transported by foot to be released in a nearby forest for the trees to recycle.


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    Andrew

    What is the go with rescue anyhow? Has someone had to post a bond for getting him out? What’s the rules on Darwin Award attempts like this?


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      Yonniestone

      Just reading over the Darwin Awards rules he could be in with a chance http://www.darwinawards.com/rules/ especially considering the uncommon excellence rule.

      You would say it was unfortunate for a shipwreck survivor or scientist collecting samples to die on an iceberg but for someone to intentionally plan to live on one knowing or indeed hoping it melts to prove what virtually every living thing on the planet already knows (ICE MELTS) then yes this gentleman is definitely in the running.


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    gnome

    Can someone with influence or influential contacts please ask him what outcome would be a success, and what outcomes would be failures for his stunt.

    If he needs to be rescued, can he claim success, and if not, ??…

    If the answer is…(pretty well whatever) then it’s a meaningless publicity stunt. He should make that clear before he heads off, because whatever happens, it is going to cost someone a lot of money, and they should know what they are getting for their money.


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    Neville

    Mann thought it was quite okay to call McIntyre and McKitrick frauds, but is suing Steyn for calling him a fraud. How does that work?
    http://climateaudit.org/2014/08/22/epa-on-manns-fraud-invective/#more-19513 Surely Steyn should be able to use this info to his advantage in his court case? And Mann was supported by the US EPA. Just incredible.


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    Now I did catch the fanatical glint in the iceberg blue eyes, that
    Yewtopian glint bespeaking ‘I-am-right-and-you-are-misguided-but-I
    -will-show-u-and-you-WILL-capitulate-and-give-up-your-evil-human-
    habit-of-wasting-energy-to cook-food-and-keep-warm-or-innovate …’

    Er,hope he remembers to put on some shoes or he’s liable to suffer
    from frostbite!


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    Ken Calvert

    If ice bergs only show one tenth of their volume above water then that one in the background must be solidly imbedded in the mud and he won’t be moving very far.. Either he must think us silly and naive to listen to him if he can set up a concocted picture like that and expect us to believe him.


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    jim2

    Someone better tell him about the Gore effect before it’s too late.


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    Jaymez

    The fact that he needs to take all the food and shelter and materials he needs to survive the year to the iceberg is a really big hint that frozen landscapes aren’t conducive to human, animal or plant existence. Even the beloved Polar bears are smart enough to sit out the winter months before they come out to start the race to fatten up for the next winter.

    So what makes people like Bellini so convinced that a frozen Arctic is worth saving when history and geological records clearly demonstrate that life on earth thrives better at Climate Optimums, which are the warm periods such as the Medieval Warm Period, the Minoan Warm Period and the Roman Warm Period. All apparently warmer than it is today.

    If science had the power to reduce the ice cap in winter, extend the northern hemisphere growing season and the land on which crops, trees and grassland is viable, humans would be sensibly pushing to actually do it, not try to keep the landscape frozen. Bringing warmth to a frozen land would be the same as bringing water to a desert. Beneficial all round!


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      the Griss

      And the demonization of CO2 and trying to curtail emissions of CO2, because some twerp says it causes this beneficial warming is..

      probably one of the most stupid and moronic things humankind has ever done.

      CO2 is the building block of ALL LIFE ON EARTH, and the atmospheric concentration of CO2 has been very low for a very long time. !


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      Roy Hogue

      If science had the power to reduce the ice cap in winter, extend the northern hemisphere growing season and the land on which crops, trees and grassland is viable, humans would be sensibly pushing to actually do it, not try to keep the landscape frozen. Bringing warmth to a frozen land would be the same as bringing water to a desert.

      Jaymez,

      If we could learn to farm the arctic tundra for useful food it would give us a magnificent 24/7 growing cycle for the months when the sun literally never sets. The tundra grows like crazy and so do the insects. Some enterprising young Turk in the agriculture or biology specialties ought to be able to turn that to our advantage.


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    Adam Gallon

    [Snip - not even anatomically correct. Fly].


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    Mike Singleton

    Hopefully he’ll pick one with a real polar bear on it as opposed to a photo-shopped one. We could always drop one to him by helicopter. Even a papier mache replica bear dropped on to the berg in the middle of the night could be amusing.


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    the Griss

    Chuckle.. The lads at WUWT are having some fun with this one..


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    Can we send him a special AGW Darwin award?

    Although if Gore is going to cover it, the berg will immediately head North and reincorporate itself in the ice sheet…


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    Greg Cavanagh

    Adventure; an interesting choice of words.

    Roy Hogue asks “By the way, what exactly is an adventurer?”.

    I’m going to rephrase the question; what makes this an adventure?
    Also: What made the movie “Poseidon Adventure” an adventure?


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      Roy Hogue

      Greg,

      From Merriam-webster:

      Adventure

      : an exciting or dangerous experience

      : danger or excitement

      So by definition your examples are adventures. What I’m left wondering about is the word adventurer. The dictionary is again, quite definitive.

      : someone who likes dangerous or exciting experiences : a person who looks for adventures

      : a person who tries to become wealthy or powerful by doing things that are illegal or dishonest

      It seems unlikely that there is a worthwhile job being done when someone is described as an implied professional adventurer.

      When I flew I always wanted to take aerobatic instruction. There is nothing more exciting than doing loops and barrel rolls at 1,500 feet above ground in an open cockpit. That would have been an adventure every time. But I always had a useful job to do. And that was the problem. Even a good useful job couldn’t keep paying for the instructor and rental of that beautiful 1938 Steerman biplane, fully restored and airworthy.

      Anyway, now I’ve bombarded you with info you didn’t want, all to say that I’m not a fan of the professional adventurer. :-)


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        Greg Cavanagh

        Thanks Roy.

        Adventurer http://www.thefreedictionary.com/adventurer
        1. One that seeks adventure.
        2. A soldier of fortune.
        3. A heavy speculator in stocks, business, or trade.
        4. One that attempts to gain wealth and social position by unscrupulous means.

        I’m still stunned with the Poseidon Adventure; where several hundred people die on a ship and only 4 survive (if memory serves). Oh what an adventure.

        Anyway, after watching some ice bergs tipping over on you tube, I think this will be his last adventure. If the ice berg doesn’t get him, or the cold, or lack of food. The bears will. (attracted to his food and bad hygene).


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          Roy Hogue

          Greg,

          I’m guessing that you don’t want to call some danger you encounter unwillingly as an adventure. I pretty much agree. Were the Poseidon Adventure a real ship capsizing I doubt anyone would survive to tell about it. But Hollywood gets away with murder all the time. On the other hand, I survived my only brush with real danger, being stranded on a little traveled desert road on a very hot day. And looking back on it I guess I can call it an adventure of sorts.

          There is a much more realistic rescue from a sinking ship cliffhanger from 1960 called The Last Voyage, that sees almost everyone rescued before it’s over. But you spend the last 2/3 or more of the movie sitting on the edge of your seat with the whole thing in doubt literally right up to the final scene as the ship is going down. The producer bought a real ship being sold off for scrap and did almost all the filming on board, finally sinking it for real as the last cast members were getting off by letting it sink out from under them. And I mean the real stars of the movie, up close, not stunt doubles. I’ve never seen anything like it before or since. It took a lot of guts to stake the success of the whole effort on no one flubbing that final scene because there wasn’t going to be any repeat of the ship going under.

          Now there’s an adventure — doing that final scene. Imagine being part of that and the coordination that had to all work out perfectly.


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            Roy Hogue

            PS:

            If you read the reference you’ll find they cheated a little for that final scene. But I couldn’t resist putting out the whole narrative. It’s one of the best cliffhangers ever made.


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    Eliza

    Just a kid Normal I was like when I was 17 I think LOL. They will all give up after 5 years and will be the worst Skeptics (I mean extreme deniers) LOL


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    pat

    see my George Soros comments #43 #44 – i hate when the MSM pushes this ethical/responsible investor BS:

    24 Aug: Courier Mail Brisbane: Kerrie Sinclair: Institutional investors back strong action on climate change strategy
    THE world’s most powerful investors believe strong action on climate change is inevitable and a carbon price is the best economic strategy, private equity fund adviser and leading academic James Gifford said.
    Toowoomba-born Dr Gifford is a senior strategic adviser for Tau Investment Management – a New York-based fund backed by investors including Alexander Soros, son of billionaire financier George Soros – and is a senior research fellow at Harvard Kennedy School in Cambridge, US.
    Dr Gifford, in 2010 named one of 200 Young Global Leaders by the World Economic Forum, helped found and was executive director of a United Nations responsible investment initiative which secured the backing of 1200 financial institutions worldwide, with a collective $40 trillion in assets committed to them…
    “I met virtually no large investors who didn’t believe that a price on carbon, whether that be through a tax or a trading scheme, was necessary,” he says….
    http://www.couriermail.com.au/business/institutional-investors-back-strong-action-on-climate-change-strategy/story-fnihsps3-1227035181845?nk=0326515bbb66372397061cbcda739497

    go speak to Alexander’s Dad, James. while George is buying up oil/fracking/coal, he’s not so hot on the rest of the stock market! this is all the talk on financial blogs in recent weeks:

    15 Aug: Marketwatch, WSJ: Barbara Kollmeyer: Soros’s biggest holding? A bearish call on the S&P 500
    Soros bought a put on 1,248,643 SPY units in the quarter. A put option gives the owner the right to sell a specific amount of an asset at a set price within a set time, and generally means the investor expects that asset will go down in price.
    So yes, as Bullion Baron and Whalewisdom point out, Soros is making a huge bet on the S&P 500 going lower…
    History has a story to tell about big calls from Soros and people should be paying attention, says the Baron blog:
    “Soros reportedly made $1 billion betting against the British pound in 1992. We heard rumors of Soros making a $1 billion bet against the AUD (a position that has done well if true). We heard when he made $1 billion betting against the yen. Where are the headlines for his $1.25 billion bet against the stock market?” asks Baron…
    Joseph from the Baron further said this when asked about the significance of Soros’s move:
    “The last time SPY puts topped the Soros Fund was in the 30th June 2011 filing and we saw the S&P 500 lose 15%+ over the 6-7 weeks following, over July/August (during which time Soros reduced the position substantially). The position in 2011 was less than half the size of the current one which makes me think he might be anticipating a larger decline on this occasion.”…
    http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/08/15/soross-biggest-holding-a-bearish-call-on-the-sp-500/


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    pat

    EPA-funded…nice:

    24 Aug: MIT News: Study: Cutting emissions pays for itself
    Savings from healthier air can make up for some or all of the cost of carbon-reduction policies.
    Audrey Resutek | Joint Program on the Science and Policy of Global Change
    But just how large are the health benefits of cleaner air in comparison to the costs of reducing carbon emissions? MIT researchers looked at three policies achieving the same reductions in the United States, and found that the savings on health care spending and other costs related to illness can be big — in some cases, more than 10 times the cost of policy implementation.
    “Carbon-reduction policies significantly improve air quality,” says Noelle Selin, an assistant professor of engineering systems and atmospheric chemistry at MIT, and co-author of a study published today in Nature Climate Change. “In fact, policies aimed at cutting carbon emissions improve air quality by a similar amount as policies specifically targeting air pollution.”…
    This research was supported by funding from the EPA’s Science to Achieve Results program.
    http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/cutting-carbon-health-care-savings-0824


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    pat

    u have to laugh:

    24 Aug: Newcastle Herald: Donna Page: Garbage levy sends dumpers interstate, poll
    HUNTER waste operators are trucking mountains of landfill to Queensland each week to avoid paying a waste levy designed to encourage recycling.
    Each week dozens of trucks, weighed down with about 40 tonnes of waste each, leave the Hunter for the 1500-kilometre round trip to landfills in south-east Queensland…
    In NSW the levy is $120.90 per tonne of rubbish, taking the cost of landfill to $230 a tonne at Newcastle City Council’s Summerhill Waste Management Centre, $285 a tonne at Maitland’s Mt Vincent Road Waste Management Centre and $315 a tonne at Lake Macquarie’s Awaba tip.
    There is no waste levy in Queensland, after Campbell Newman’s government scrapped it in 2012, and aggressive price cutting by Queensland tip operators has driven landfill costs to as low as $23 per tonne.
    Even after factoring in transport costs of about $110 a tonne, trucks can save up to $4000 a load…
    A Newcastle business owner said nearly all small-to-medium waste operators were trucking garbage across the border…
    Another operator described the levy as ‘‘money grabbing’’ by the NSW government and said there was ‘‘no way’’ the tax paid in the Hunter was returned to the region…
    A spokesman said trucking landfill north completely undermined the waste levy.
    ‘‘It also creates up to 40 trucks travelling north to Queensland each day which adds to the carbon footprint of waste disposal and means there’s more heavy vehicles on our roads,’’ he said.
    Mr Khoury said it was unfortunate that a ‘‘well intended’’ environmental policy was causing more harm than good.
    ‘‘The levy in its current form does nothing to assist the environment,’’ he said…
    The Sydney Morning Herald reported last year that some Sydney waste operators had dug up landfill, claimed a rebate on the waste levy and trucked the garbage to Queensland.
    Licence requirements were changed to stop people exhuming waste
    http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2509898/garbage-levy-sends-dumpers-interstate-poll/?cs=303

    25 Aug: Herald Sun: John Masanauskas: Melbourne City Council looks at bicycles, smoking in travel missions
    Several councillors have taken or have applied for overseas trips this year, costing ratepayers tens of thousands of dollars.
    The latest proposal, to be considered by the Future Melbourne Committee tomorrow, is for Greens councillor Cathy Oke to fly to the Netherlands next month for a four-day ­cycling tour that will cost more than $6000…
    If the trip is approved, Cr Oke’s airline carbon emissions will be offset with the purchase of credits…
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/melbourne-city-council-looks-at-bicycles-smoking-in-travel-missions/story-fni0fit3-1227035154848?nk=0326515bbb66372397061cbcda739497


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    James Bradley

    OT,

    Things certainly seem lost for climate alarmists.

    Only eight sad, climate scientists submitted black and white photos along with their overwrought, emotional pleas to the peoples of Earth for the future of the planet unless we curb CO2.

    What hapened to the rest of the 97% of the world’s scientists?


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    Yonniestone

    This guy is an obvious CAGW PR stunt, if you Google ‘Greenland ice sheet’ almost all recent search results are warmists warning of record ice melting and rising sea levels, not many results using the term ‘Natural Variability’ though.


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    scaper...

    An open thread? Very on topic thus far.


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      Yonniestone

      How opportune scaper, I have had ideas of another Convoy of no confidence event to happen, with the current negative opinions on CAGW in general it could be good timing to sink the boots into the CAGW carcass metaphorically speaking.

      What are your views on this? cheers.


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        scaper...

        Get out of my head!

        Purpose, timing and strategy is the key. Never let a convoy go past comes to mind.


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        • #
          James Bradley

          Convoy Tee Shirts:

          “CO2 Up

          Warming Down

          Spent a Fortune

          Done F#ck All”


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        • #
          Yonniestone

          Purpose – Promote awareness of CAGW failed predictions and scrapping the RET for starters.
          Timing – Coincide with G20 summit Brisbane November or before COP21 Paris 2015?
          Strategy – Use any sympathetic or converted skeptical media for coverage, use any skeptical ‘experts in their field’ to present information to the public (I can think of many here) maybe Patrick Moore makes an appearance?

          Just ideas, not pushing or anything… ;)


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            scaper...

            I believe it would be prudent to wait and see what happens in regard to the RET. There has been a lot of pressure applied, on the inside and out to have it removed as it is a hidden tax on the poor and is creating energy poverty.

            Learnt a few lessons on the last convoy.


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    ROM

    Now if this iceberg squatting bozo had been around in 1940 / 42 during WW2 he might have got a bit of hearing as Project Habakkuk was being contemplated in the Allied research councils.
    [ and here ]

    The below from Wiki on the assumption that Connelley hasn’t been here as it is not a climate article, to scam this particular Wiki article and create another fraudulent post by altering all of the most basic details to suit his personal  ego driven ideology.

    Since the appearance of William Connolley on this site it is quite interesting how the references to Wiki by the denizens has dropped off.
    In most ways a very sad development for what was supposed to be an altruistic project to correlate the world’s knowledge base in one comprehensive easily accessible site.

    [quoted from Wiki ]

    Project Habakkuk

    Project Habakkuk was a plan by the British in World War II to construct an aircraft carrier out of pykrete ( a mixture of wood pulp and ice ), for use against German U-boats in the mid-Atlantic, which were beyond the flight range of land-based planes at that time.

    The idea came from Geoffrey Pyke who worked for Combined Operations Headquarters.

    &
    Scale model

    The decision was made to build a large scale model at Jasper National Park in Canada to examine insulation and refrigeration techniques, and to see how it would stand up to artillery and explosives. At Lake Louise, Alberta, large ice blocks were constructed, and a small prototype was constructed at Patricia Lake, Alberta, measuring only 60 by 30 feet (18 by 9 m), weighing in at 1,000 tons and kept frozen by a one-horsepower motor.[8] The work was done by conscientious objectors who did alternative service of various kinds instead of military service. They were never told what they were building.[citation needed] Bernal informed COHQ that the Canadians were building a 1,000 ton model, and that it was expected to take 8 men 14 days to build it. The Chief of Combined Operations (CCO) responded that Churchill had invited the Chiefs of Staff Committee to arrange for an order to be placed for one complete ship at once with the highest priority, with further ships to be ordered immediately if it appeared the scheme was certain of success.

    The Canadians were confident about constructing a vessel for 1944. The necessary materials were available to them in the form of 300,000 tons of wood pulp, 25,000 tons of fibreboard insulation, 35,000 tons of timber and 10,000 tons of steel. The cost was estimated at £700,000.[9]

    Meanwhile, Perutz had determined via his experiments at Smithfield Market that the optimum structural properties were given by a mixture of 14% wood pulp and 86% water. He wrote to Pyke in early April 1943 and pointed out that if certain tests were not completed in May, there would be no chance of delivering a completed ship in 1944.

    By May the problem of plastic flow had become serious and it was obvious that more steel reinforcement would be needed as well as a more effective insulating skin around the vessel’s hull. This caused the cost estimate to increase to £2.5 million. In addition, the Canadians had decided that it was impractical to attempt the project “this coming season”, and Bernal and Pyke were forced to conclude that no Habbakuk vessel would be ready in 1944.[9]

    Pyke was excluded from the planning for Habbakuk in an effort to secure American participation, a decision which Bernal supported. Pyke’s earlier disagreements with American personnel on Project Plough, which ultimately caused his removal from that project, were the main factor in this decision.[10]

    In the early summer of 1943, naval architects and engineers continued to work on Habbakuk with Bernal and Perutz. The requirements for the vessel became more demanding: it had to have a range of 7,000 miles (11,000 km) and be able to withstand the largest waves recorded, while the Admiralty wanted it to be torpedo-proof, which meant that the hull had to be at least 40 ft (12 m) thick. The Fleet Air Arm decided that heavy bombers should be able to take off from it, which meant that the deck had to be 2,000 ft (610 m) long. Steering also raised problems; it was initially projected that the ship be steered by varying the speed of the motors on either side, but the Royal Navy decided that a rudder was essential. However, the problem of mounting and controlling a rudder over 100 ft (30 m) high was never solved.[9]
    &
    The final design of Habbakuk II gave the bergship (as it was referred to) a displacement of 2.2 million tons. Steam turbogenerators were to supply 33,000 hp (25,000 kW) for 26 electric motors mounted in separate external nacelles (normal, internal ship engines would have generated too much heat for an ice craft). Its armament would have included 40 dual-barrelled 4.5″ DP (dual-purpose) turrets and numerous light anti-aircraft guns, and it would have housed an airstrip and up to 150 twin-engined bombers or fighters.[2]

    [ more ]

    _____________


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      Peter C

      Great story ROM,

      I have not heard about that before and will research a bit more.
      “Habbakuk” It sounds biblical. And yes it is, book number 35 (of 39) in the Old Testament.
      It is never referred to In church. The only reason that I recognized it was that I was challenged in Sunday school to learn all the books of the Bible.

      German operational code names sometimes linked to the nature of the operation.
      From Ken Folllet -Hornet Flight:
      Freya was a code name for a German early warming system. Freya was a Norse God. Freya was somehow associated with Heimdahl, a demigod,with special powers. In particular he could see 100 miles! Himmelbet (heaven bed) was a code name for operating of the night fighter control system associated with the short range control radar.. It makes sense when you realize that a himmelbet is a four poster bed. It corresponds with a vertical airspace controlled by the radar.

      By comparison the code word Habbakuk does not seem to give anything away.


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    This might look like my bumping my Comment at 51, but I want you all to do a small exercise to show exactly what I meant about those price spikes.

    The first link is to the AEMO home site, at this link.

    Now, once there, see that graph on the right side half way down, well, above that graph, click on SA and then, to the right of that, click on 5 min 2 day, and once that loads, then click on the graph itself and it will enlarge to mid screen.

    The green line here indicates the total demand for electricity, and note how it rises sharply at around 6AM, as people get up, turn on the heaters, make their brekky, do some chores, shower, get ready for school, the typical morning power rise. Now note how the power consumption rises to around 1700MW.

    Now, Keeping that window open go to a second window (tab) and open up the Wind Power graph at this link.

    Now, at that site under the graph, (scroll down a little) untick all States (bottom line) except SA1, so now, the only ones showing are for ALL the wind plants in SA, and the total power being delivered is that solid black line.

    Note how at the same time from that first AEMO site, around 6AM, and for the next few hours, the total wind power being delivered is around an average of 150MW, which at that time is around 8.8% only of all the power that is actually required to run the State of SA. This equates to a Capacity Factor of just on 10%, or around one in ten wind towers actually turning.

    So, with all that wind power, umm, gone missing, the grid controller now needs bucket loads of power, all to be supplied from non wind sources.

    So, go back to the first window, and now look at the red line, the cost for that electricity as it all begins to come on line.

    Note the heap of spikes, and then it settles down to the new average price, of around $40/MWH. Some of those spikes go off the chart, well over $100/MWH, but note how it is an instantaneous spike, and then settles back down.

    Also, note back at the second window, that wind falls away even more dramatically, down to around only 40MW, (CF of 2%, or one tower in 50 actually turning and delivering pitifully tiny amounts of power) but now, all those other plants are already running, so the cost stays relatively stable, even as that usual morning power increase falls away back to average use for those hours in between this increase and the usual afternoon increase in consumption.

    All this extra cost can be slated home directly to wind, in this case the lack of wind power.

    If all that wind power was a regular supplier, there would be no need for all those extra plants to be run up and down, at the whim of the wind.

    You can say all you like about Wind power, but this abject failure to deliver power is its Achilles, something that will never be overcome, no matter how many of the damned thing you build.

    All you wind power supporters out there, why do you never come in to refute facts like these. Could be because there is no answer when the facts are shown as starkly as this.

    Tony.


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      You want the cost of coal fired power. Go again to that same graph at that same first link from above, and look at the cost of power at 4AM, every morning for every State, keeping in mind that the only plants running at that time are those actually supporting Australia’s 18,000MW absolute requirement for 24 hours of every day. Click on each State individually.

      Power costs at 4 AM

      NSW – $20/MWH

      Qld – $16/MWH

      SA – $20/MWH (not much coal fired power here, but again, very low actual consumption)

      Tas – Virtually all of it Hydro, cost almost nothing, keeping in mind the tiny consumption for Tas.

      Vic – $16/MWH.

      That equates to 2 cents per KWH, and check your power bill to see what it costs at retail.

      Keep in mind all these coal fired plants just hum along all the time, supplying their vast amounts of power ….. AT THE SAM COST ALL THE TIME.

      Yep, coal fired power is just sooooooo expensive!!!!!

      Tony.


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    Angry

    I hope one of those “rare” POLAR BEARS” eats him !!!!!!


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    Anton

    He’s nuts, it will upend, conduction trumps convection and radiation in the case of icebergs so they melt more rapidly underneath and become unstable. He can’t possibly know what shape it is underneath.


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    Anton

    We just had the coldest August day EVER in various parts of the UK, and guess what – no mention of it on the BBC. They didn’t even report it and then say (correctly) that it was a local cooling event so had no bearing on the global climate. Had we had the hottest day ever, it would have been plastered all over the news as part of the propaganda to decarbonise us and choke our way of life by (of course) taxing us more highly. Here is a report

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-weather-coldest-august-bank-4100717

    The rain is not unusual, for it can rain anytime, but the cold is. A temperature of 1.9 degrees below freezing in mid not the very end of August in Northern Ireland – which is not the most northern part of the UK, nor the most mountainous, and fairly maritime – is remarkable.


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    ImranCan

    He is going to hope for a whole year that his berg wont roll over and kill him. What an absolute class A total f&@king idiot.


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    TdeF

    It occurred that Bellini is proposing a reverse Shackleton, once he finds his ideal iceberg. Something the size of a city. No risk. No travel. Perhaps not actually in the deep Arctic and quite nice on a good day. Not cut off really and plenty of food. Settle in for a good rest. Can go home any time at all. If there is any real danger, then a call for help which will arrive in hours, not months. Never really far from home. Nothing like the awful frozen South Pole. All for the lecture circuit? There are Eskimo families who live tougher more dangerous lives with less certainty and no one is much interested. Still, people are living longer so there are plenty of retirees on the cruise lecture circuit who want to hear from someone who has done nothing and been nowhere. It was cold for a very long time. The end.


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    jimbrock

    I was wondering. Maintenance of body heat while attached to an iceberg would be a great problem, no? Is he taking any sort of heater ? I doubt that he would survive a year without one.


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    When I was younger and bolder, I spent some time canoeing close to icebergs off NW Greenland. We knew it was a daft thing to do,but couldn’t resist one close look. It is daft because icebergs which melt from below become unstable in hard to predict ways. We had heard tell of them rolling right over for example. This publicity-seeking buffoon would do well not to attach his pod too firmly to such an object.


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