JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Coal Miner Clive Palmer to host a climate conference for global leaders

Australian politics is pure side-show cabaret.

For Clive Palmer, it’s a smashing winner all the way ’round.  It’s more photo opportunities,  more Palmer-Party headlines, and a chance for him to hobnob with any international names who feel like turning up for a few days of taxpayer funded R&R to his Coolum Resort.

Thus Clive disarms his opponents, networks with the odd VIP, and unnerves the government all at the same time. He can wave the Green flag in future negotiations with Abbott and co, to try to haggle extra bits and pieces in his favour. Plus he distracts people from a messy legal matter with a Chinese firm, and he could certainly use some guests at his 95% empty resort. Which, by the way, is also a legal headache and in the news for all the wrong reasons.

It is a bet that a few politicians wouldn’t mind a Sunshine Coast junket after the G20 on November 17. They get to relax for a few tax-deductible or tax-funded days while they pretend to talk about the insolvable climate problem. Plus it’s a fun way to look compassionate and caring for the third rock from the sun. Everyone earns greenie points, while they get essentially nothing done. New class winners in new-class style.

For Clive, putting up the bizarre facade of being a climate activist off-balances the left-leaning protestors and journalists who would normally treat a coal mining magnate like a cross between Ebola and the village idiot. They just don’t know quite what to do with him. He is shamelessly playing games, and has no apparent principles, but a lot of the fans of climate action turn a blind eye to the hypocrisy. This is a man who talks of emissions trading schemes to reduce carbon dioxide while theoretically making his riches from digging stored carbon out of the ground. He voted to remove the Carbon Tax but he’s giving Tony Abbott a hard time, so he must be alright, then? The enemy of my enemy is sort of, kind of, my friend.

Clive Palmer to host climate summit after G20

Clive Palmer will host a self-styled climate change conference at his Queensland resort the day after the G20 summit wraps up in Brisbane.

The mining magnate and Palmer United Party leader claims there are many world leaders who want to discuss climate change at the G20 in November but can’t because the issue isn’t on the agenda.

He’s hoping his counter conference on November 17 will fill the gap and attract a strong crowd to the Palmer Coolum Resort – famous for its dinosaur theme park.

It’ll be bigger than Ben Hur with some nameless eminent people:

News.com

“We’ll be having ex-presidents of other countries,” he said, but wouldn’t reveal exactly who the invited guests are until they tell their own nations.

“There will be some other eminent people, Nobel prize winners and others.”

So is Al Gore coming then? Was this part of the deal?

Some commenters at The Guardian  and The Conversation tie themselves in knots. Is Clive for real they wonder? Maybe he is? After all, renewables are the future of energy because “Coal is dead”.

But far be it from me to claim that I know what Clive’s game is. There may well be more going on behind the scenes. Big dollars are at stake every which way (look what happened to the RET value last time Clive spoke and said he wanted to keep it? The price has stayed up too. h/t to Rod). The November 17 timing would suit Al Gore in the sense that it is after the US mid terms elections, and in the lead up to Lima (UNFCCC).

The real game is Paris 2015, but the real action is probably the pre-commitments — which will be running hot in the first quarter next year. Everyone who failed at Copenhagen will want to lock in the deals long before the theatre begins.

The ABC Q&A show with Clive Palmer on Monday night is here on iview.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 8.9/10 (38 votes cast)
Coal Miner Clive Palmer to host a climate conference for global leaders, 8.9 out of 10 based on 38 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/ppek8qk

126 comments to Coal Miner Clive Palmer to host a climate conference for global leaders

  • #
    PhilJourdan

    We have the same thing – except he is the puppet master. His name is Tom Steyers. And he promised to bankroll democrats to the tune of $100m. That of course now has shrunk to only $1.2m – you can never trust a democrat to keep a promise.


    Report this

    220

  • #
    Kevin Lohse

    There is nothing odd about it at all. The Spiritual Leader of the Green Cargo Cult can sell his TV station to an organisation funded by Big Oil, Greenpeace executives can do a weekly commute by air, and an estate agent who is running a coalmining empire into the ground can SEE THE LIGHT and get free publicity about the existence of a failing holiday camp. In all these cases, the the extreme hypocrisy of the action is sanctified by the dedication to the Cause. Noble Cause Corruption at it’s most developed.


    Report this

    391

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      OK – for all of you who need a decent bit of merriment, may I present the BOM as an “Environmental Intelligence Agency”

      I guess as long as they stick to “unreviewed” *cough* temperature data sets and stick to forecasting weatehr 4 days out ( not 20 years ) , all good…I’m still giggling….intelligence agency….he he

      http://www.canberratimes.com.au/it-pro/government-it/taking-the-guesswork-out-of-predicting-the-weather-20140819-105t7e.html

      “Increasing accuracy

      “It’ll be a big step-change. We are going to have four times the spatial resolution. We are going to have six times the temporal resolution moving from hourly to 10-minute observations. And three times the spectral resolution.

      “That is not only going to enhance modelling skills but is going to give us far greater insight into weather particularly those rapidly changing conditions like convective storms and squall lines which are pretty hard to forecast a couple of hours out.”


      Report this

      30

  • #
    • #
      Roy Hogue

      However, some critics have pointed out that the National Grid is forced to pay wind turbines millions of pounds to switch off on windy days in order to balance out demand. Last week, it paid wind developers £2.8m and £1.1m to other generators in balancing payments as high winds coincided with a period of low demand.

      Nice little caveat there! And of course it took unpleasantly strong winds to get to that 21%.

      Yep! Wind power is the wave of the future.


      Report this

      250

    • #
      diogenese2

      Every Kw generated by renewables costs me money by inflating my energy bill, as the tariff is about *3 core cost. Moreover when they provide over 20% of supply the CO2 emissions budget turns negative due to the need to maintain a fossil fuel powered spinning reserve, for which I also pay.
      Follow this link – some people are rejoicing in the fact that they are being shafted!
      I would hope that Clive’s guest include Al Gore and Tony Blair. That would make a symbolic weekend recalling why Tom Lehrer gave up political satire when Henry Kissinger ( author of the bombing of Cambodia and the rise to power of Pol Pot) was given the Nobel Peace Prize. He could not better that.


      Report this

      210

    • #

      Wind “Smashes UK electricity”…

      Truthful choice of words.
      Add that to

      high winds coincided with a period of low demand.

      and Wow!
      By stealing convection energy from the climate and thus causing the very thing they are supposed to prevent, these wind turbines are able to provide energy when it is not required.
      A “smashing” result that only a telephone box vandal could love if it was not also loved by feral cats and maggots for the rare birds they provide as food.


      Report this

      180

    • #
      The Backslider

      Nearly 5.8MW of wind power was generated, which is equal to the power demand of 15 million homes, the trade association said.

      Somebody got their numbers seriously wrong…..


      Report this

      150

      • #

        Wind smashes coal.

        What an absolute hoot!

        That measurement was an instantaneous point taken on the graph for power generation, as shown by the charts at this link, and here, look at the second row of charts here under the heading ‘Weekly Nuclear/Coal/CCGT/Wind (GW)’. Here, you are looking at the bottom blue line, where half way through Sunday, it, umm, almost makes it up to the same amount of generation as coal, but just doesn’t quite get there.

        Note also, it’s on a Sunday, when total power consumption is at its lowest point, around 8 to 10GW less than for a normal working day, as shown at the chart immediately to the left of this one in question.

        Oh, and as for the blurb that, umm, 5.8MW supplying 15 million homes, that equates to each of those homes consuming, umm, 0.3386 of a WATT, and that’s not KiloWatts , but a single Watt.

        Even if it was the actual which was 5.8GW, well not really because it barely made it (instantaneously to 5GW) then that equates to each of those 15 MILLION homes consuming 386 Watts, and an electric jug takes between 1500 and 1880 Watts to run.

        Greenies, besides not having the slightest clue about any of the facts, besides not even checking their facts, besides being clueless about Maths, besides going off half cocked, well, they’ll believe anything, and this proves it.

        Isn’t it just great when you can show these idiots up like this. What a pack of fools.

        Sunday. Who bloody cares.

        Tony.


        Report this

        301

        • #
          The Backslider

          I knew you would like it :-P


          Report this

          70

        • #
          Eddie

          Thanks Tony. I guess that’s why they call it the Greens. Would you mind if I quote you ?


          Report this

          40

          • #
            the Griss

            I think people were a bit unfair giving you the red thumbs.

            They maybe didn’t see your intent :-)

            Now.. since wind can now provide whatever percent it was for 2 seconds, the real energy providers must now scale back to provide ONLY (100 – whatever)% of needs

            They should not be allowed to provide more than this percentage for the whole of the rest of the UK summer.


            Report this

            61

    • #
      Peter Miller

      For anyone interested, here is a website that shows you real time electricity usage in the UK – at the time of writing wind is providing 3.38%, coal 24.36%, nuclear, 32.35%, gas 37.27%, the French 6.68% and the Dutch 3.35%.

      http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

      In a real world, not the one we live in, most people would be very worried about having to rely so much on such an expensive, unreliable and unpredictable source of energy, i.e. wind power.


      Report this

      60

  • #
    old44

    And after the conference he can take all the delegates for a cruise on the Titanic ll.


    Report this

    170

    • #
      James Bradley

      At least Clive didn’t do a ‘Former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd’ and call them ‘dirty little rat f#ckers”.

      And as for Senator Lambie, China would be the culture of least concern.


      Report this

      70

    • #

      The Delegates will have to go to the local Chinese for takeaway. Clive has sacked about 400 at the resort including all the chefs, cooks, washing up people etc. I understand there is a legal case where his ex-manager is claiing about $900,000 in back pay and superannuation. It is also well known that he does not pay his bills so he will not have much success in getting catering. Maybe, he will have to try to fly in some catering people from the Phillipines on a promise but not sure where he will get the food.
      Anyone willing to take a bet that it will not proceed and Clive will claim government (state & federal) interference particularly blaming Campbell Newman.


      Report this

      90

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Dont you love the cyclonic free-for-all that is politics?

        As for Krudd, well classy….not…..by hey, the ratbag Left, so no surprises there….


        Report this

        10

      • #
        Dennis

        Owners of strata title time share dwellings at the Coolum Resort won a court case against the Palmer company that locked them out on the false claim that they had failed to pay levies, the owners are now suing Palmer for damages and costs.

        It appears that Palmer has a redevelopment plan in mind for the Resort and wanted to buy the owners out for less than market value.


        Report this

        40

  • #
    pattoh

    The only reason why Clive gets so much oxygen is that “pound for pound” he is better entertainment (read cringe) value than Bob Katter.
    Further, with PUP you get the “horizontal scrubber” as a bonus bearded lady.

    The MSM gets Sir Les Patterson quality Reality TV free of production costs. SWEET!


    Report this

    180

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    I’ll have to admit to not having followed Clive very much — something to do with the unsavory nature of the man’s activities I suppose, not too mention that he’s half a world away and harder to follow. But nothing surprises me anymore.

    If even twenty years ago you had told me how much plain old dishonesty was going on and would go on in the future I might have doubted some of it. But no more. :-(

    How do we get back our basic honesty? It was once prized and taught to our children. Where did it go? Is it something we all lost or does it go away as people grow in influence and power?

    At least this particular get-together looks more like a joke than most. Go for it Clive! Ex presidents? I’m dying from laughing at that one. ;-)


    Report this

    160

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Proofread, Roy — before you hit the post Comment button, not after.


      Report this

      50

      • #
        PhilJourdan

        But then we would not have any mirthfulness. ;-)


        Report this

        10

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          I suppose I could plead preoccupation, since I learned yesterday that I’m going to be a grandfather. I’m walking around about 6 feet off the floor! :-)

          Unfortunately I wrote “too” instead of “to” before my son’s call to let me know the good news. Do you think preoccupation can happen retroactively?

          Might be a good subject for a research grant. We’ll see if we can get 97% of test subjects to agree. ;-)


          Report this

          30

          • #
            Greg Cavanagh

            Yes, it’s called a psychic link.
            It’s quite common for my mum and I to call each other at the same time.

            As for dishonesty, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s always been so. It’s just more obvious and instantanious now.

            Have a quick peek at the shenanigans of the US founders, or the building of the railways, or the Hoover dam. It’s endemic wherever big money is.


            Report this

            10

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Money does speak very loudly. But the transcontinental railroad was at least a real benefit, even though the rail barons got rich on the backs of men working under nearly slave conditions. And of course they got huge tracts of free land they could use for the rail line and sell the rest. It was a huge giveaway, the first corporate welfare on a grand scale.

              It also built a nation, providing the transportation that nothing else could.

              Hoover dam is also still providing power to an ever more power hungry southwest. So what do you do?


              Report this

              10

              • #
                Greg Cavanagh

                It’s true they have been of great benefit.

                I was simply pointing to those project because they are well known, and well known for the corruption; as a simple proof that it’s always been there. Not something that’s just sprung up recently.


                Report this

                10

          • #
            PhilJourdan

            Congratulations!!! I am a 4 time grandpa (I was there for the last one’s birth – well, at least in the waiting room). But since I was in the room for the birth of all my kids, I figure I have exceeded my “miracle” quota.


            Report this

            20

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Phil,

              Thanks. When my son was born they wouldn’t have let me in the delivery room no matter what. But did you know there are now several videos of a live birth on the Internet and publicly available. I can understand why parents would make such a video. I would too if I could have. But I don’t quite get why it would be posted on YouTube for all to see.

              I discovered them one day as I was surfing the net during my lunch hour at work. I found a training video for police officers on how to handle a situation where the mother doesn’t reach the hospital in time. It was even done in the back seat of a car with a doctor pretending to be the officer. There were several others listed in the sidebar. I was fascinated and went on to watch one of the others, this time done in the hospital delivery room.

              I’ll bet a Google or Bing search for something like, “birth of baby,” will find one or more.

              Miracle is the word that came to my mind too.


              Report this

              00

              • #
                PhilJourdan

                Roy, now you got me going! ;-)

                My first was born in 83. We did the whole Lamaze thing, so I was there (for all of them actually). But once my daughter was born, I had to go through a sterilization process (I was surprised they did not make me strip naked given their precautions) to just “hold” the baby.

                My last was born in 92. By that time (we still did Lamaze), all I had to do was walk in after a hard day doing yard work, dirty, grimy, and slimy, and they would plunk the baby in my arms – no preparation!

                Times do change. ;-)

                As for the videos, you will never see one of any of my children as there were lines I would not cross. However my cousin took one of those shoulder mounted cameras into the delivery room to film his first child being born (I do not know if he did his second). So that may be on the Internet. I have never seen the video, nor care to. I would never trade being there when my children were born. But it is a personal, and private moment for the 3 of you. Not for ‘posterity’ or the world.

                That is why I will never see any of my grandchildren born (only 2 of my children have become parents so far). It is their moment. And no one elses.


                Report this

                00

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                As for the videos, you will never see one of any of my children as there were lines I would not cross.

                For me as well. However, having literally stumbled onto several videos and never having seen a baby being born I couldn’t help watching that police training video. It surprised me that it was a real birth with the parents volunteering to do it. I then picked one other to watch since they were there.

                As I said, I might have recorded my son’s birth if I could. But it’s really a private personal moment and it doesn’t belong to the world.

                I suspect that now some hospitals will arrange to have the event recorded professionally for you or recommend someone so the father can spend his time at his wife’s side as I certainly would want to do. You would certainly get a better job that way than I would do. I’d be too excited and distracted. The video record would be a good thing to eventually show the child when old enough and interested enough to understand it. There’s nothing like having the right information when you really need it.

                I was surprised by something else too. I’ve always had a real good friendship with the office manager where I worked. And among other things, she appreciates a good off color joke. So I had no fear of telling her about the videos I had found. She told me that the hospital had very thoughtfully placed a mirror in the delivery room so she could see what was happening when her two were born. I thought that was outstanding.


                Report this

                00

              • #
                PhilJourdan

                Yea, the mirrors are a nice touch. There was not one for the first child, but for the rest there was.


                Report this

                00

    • #
      Power Grab

      Re the dominance of dishonesty these days – you make a very good point. Once in a sermon I heard about a tribe that valued deceit above all. If a person could cheat and lie and gain the advantage over another, that earned the highest reward.

      I blame it on the abandonment of truth, and also on the promotion of playacting. Things are so slickly marketed these days (marketers have a saying: “Sizzle sells”) and made to appeal straight to the senses and emotions, bypassing logic almost entirely.

      They say that when the government trains their agents to detect counterfeit currency, they make them spend most of their time studying real currency. You can better detect the counterfeit if you know the real thing inside and out.

      These days, the promotion of lying and pretense has gotten out of control. Ironically, the web has the power both to promote a lie and to expose a lie.

      Good question: How do you teach your kids to discern between lies and truth, especially in entertainment and on the web?

      It makes me wonder what occupation is most prone to attract truthful people. Are geeks more prone to be honest, and less likely to be good pretenders? At least, the geeks in the trenches…maybe not the ones at the top. Is that how we ended up with an Edward Snowden incident? The ClimateGate incidents?

      Methinks there is a move afoot to make computers able to detect dishonesty in people. Sort of like a touchless lie detector. Does anyone else see that happening?


      Report this

      80

      • #
        Gordon Cheyne

        From: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm

        Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to “smooth over differences.”

        There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam – in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

        Bukhari (52:269) – “The Prophet said, ‘War is deceit.’” The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad’s men after he “guaranteed” them safe passage .

        Bukhari (49:857) – “He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar.” Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

        Bukhari (84:64-65) – Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an “enemy.”

        That’s OK, then . . . . Now I know that Muslims have zero credibility.

        [Gordon try to stay on topic in future thanks - Mod]


        Report this

        150

        • #
          James Bradley

          Gordon,

          Good post.

          I have occasion to interview certain people from time to time.

          On one such occasion I asked a person I was interviewing “if you say certain things are a sin yet the information suggests you have done these things regarded as sins then how do you interpret that sin?”

          Simple answer:

          Two types of sin, one is public and one is personal.

          If the sin is committed in public and you are caught then that is a sin and you will pay the consequences and not have forgiveness.

          If the sin is committed in private and no one knows about it then that is a private sin and you are forgiven, but if someone uncovers your private sin then they must also keep the sin private because if they expose the sin then it is as if they committed it and then they will not forgiven.

          Sort of like the Mafia Code of Silence.

          Seems to have the same outcomes.

          [Lets stay on topic in future - Mod]


          Report this

          80

        • #
          Rod Stuart

          Perhaps that explains the apparent indifference to the slaughter of Christians by these barbarians around the world.


          Report this

          10

    • #
      sophocles

      It used to be a small thing called `shame.’
      Now, there is none.


      Report this

      130

    • #
      Rod Stuart

      You rally hit the nail on the head, Roy.
      There was a day when most folks were honest and only a few were not. Otherwise the depression of the ’30′s would have been dog eat dog mayhem.
      While a lot of folks on this blog disparage religion, do you suppose that there exists a relationship similar to the sun and the climate?
      When a person fears God, that person is less likely to be a crook, one would have thought.
      With Socialism, in a world we create where an elite mob enjoys the right to steal from everyone and then had out hte spoils, even little old grannies become thieving socundrels. Three quarters of a million is a pretty good haul for an old moll.


      Report this

      00

  • #
    Renato Alessio

    I wonder if Clive has invited the Chinese President or Chinese ex-Presidents?

    Maybe he can get Senator Muir to give a speech on his newly revealed love of Climate, and how he reconciles it with his Motoring Enthusiasm. Might be of benefit to many of the guests, including Al Gore.
    Regards


    Report this

    160

  • #

    There’s a thingy, a wotsit, isn’t there? Summat about tragedy becoming comedy after a while or is it the other way around?

    The type of conference attendees who dare not speak their name perhaps? Naw, getting colder on that quote, or perhaps getting a bit too warming.

    Pointman


    Report this

    110

    • #
      Debbie

      Pointman?
      Black Comedy?
      After hearing about this PUP (Palmer) climate conference. . .
      It does fit the bill.
      :-)
      If nothing else. . . Palmer is eliciting a tragi-comic response from the usual suspects in the CAGW crowd.
      I’m not sure whether I should be laughing at the confused responses or starting to scream in frustration about the profligate waste of resources?


      Report this

      20

  • #
    scaper...

    It won’t happen because the G20 leaders have a tight schedule and to secure the resort would be a logistical nightmare. I know the place real well because I worked there on the construction.

    I also believe Palmer will be in serious trouble by then. Mentioned on the last thread that I have lodged a complaint to the Human Rights Commission under Section 18c.

    Well, this is the beginning of a plan that I can not reveal as of yet. I’ve been in contact with Hedley Thomas. We will be talking today as we share a common goal.

    It is critical that Palmer be brought down…even if it means blowing my cover. I’ll give it my best shot.

    Hedley has revealed in The Australian, that there is more to come due to incriminating evidence. I’ll see what I can find out from Hedley and get back to you.


    Report this

    210

    • #
      bobl

      Lets hope,
      Palmer worries me, his totally malleable position means that he can’t be trusted to do what he was elected to do… IE to can the greentape and mining taxes. While this unnerves the pollies, it also unsettles the natives – it seems to be all a game with Palmer, no principles, just a game.

      The problem though is the warmists in the Libs, the shifting of Labor to the far left has allowed the Libs to fill the gap in the centre left, this isn’t good for the country as it drags the Coalition left too, the “centre” is now in a spot that would historically have been held to be left. Dropping of 18C reform is a huge symptom.

      Oh, and I definitely see Al Gore’s hand in there, my opinion, there could be a business proposition in there somewhere, and that in concert with a foreign operative is called ???


      Report this

      120

      • #
        Tim

        bobl,

        Your astute Gore comment could be spot on. He’s got heaps of dollars to throw at any propaganda-fest that spreads the word.

        Clive has shown his true colours now. An opportunist with a foot in both camps who just follows the numbers and the money. Bugger the science or the facts.I can’t believe any thinking person of any political persuasion could not see through his chess-game trickeries.

        We’re being sold a PUP.


        Report this

        30

        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          That’s my interpretation as well Tim.

          Gore (and his money grabbing carbon credit scheme) has somehow influenced Palmer. And it’s pretty obvious Palmer has no integrity, and possibly no long term goal either. I get the impression he’s winging it the whole way.


          Report this

          10

      • #
        PhilJourdan

        PUP and Palmer are a party of personality (singular). His. So he is going to be all over the place because it is all about him. Whatever garners the most attention for HIM.

        Much like Ross Perot here.


        Report this

        00

    • #
      James Bradley

      I think Palmer, with the help of Lambie, has just been put in a very vulnerable position where there may well be an opportunity for pressure to be administered in order to make the Senate a little more functional.


      Report this

      30

      • #
        Dennis

        Former Lance Corporal Lambie who was demoted after striking a superior officer while she was drunk. She was later dishonourably discharged and was considered to be a malingerer. She has admitted to having problems with prescription drug abuse and alcohol abuse.


        Report this

        20

        • #

          Ah dear old Jacquie Lambie.

          A military policeman, eh! and a Lance Jack to boot.

          That takes me back. In the RAAF, they went under the name of RAAFPOL. (RAAF Police)

          They were affectionately called ‘elephant trackers’. It was actually rumoured that they could track an elephant through deep snow, but only as long as the elephant was bleeding, and didn’t have too big of a head start.

          Tony.


          Report this

          90

  • #
    Robert O

    I watched Q & A on Monday and saw Mr. Palmer’s outburst at the end of the program which I attribute to his legal problems with his Chinese business partner, but it was not a good show and worrying since it reflects badly on Australia.

    All the panellists ridiculed the article by Maurice Newman in the weekend Australian about the impending cold, particularly Helen Ridout. My point is that it just shows depth of the AGW scare, and they were still expressing the need to get on with carbon (dioxide) reduction to save the planet for our descendants.


    Report this

    220

    • #
      the Griss

      Whereas the reality is that attempts to reduce the natural CO2 level will put ever upward costs on electricity, making life much harder for poor people in the near future (as it already is).

      The second reality is that the Earth needs MORE atmospheric CO2 for the carbon cycle to function at its optimum.

      CO2 is the building block of all life on Earth, and it is still at pitifully low atmospheric concentrations.


      Report this

      282

      • #
        Robert O

        Griss, I am continually amazed of the scientific ignorance of our leaders; here we have carbon which is the basis of organic chemistry and upon which the whole world depends for its carbohydrate and they want to tax it. Currently atmospheric levels are 400 ppm, but it is used for crop enhancement in greenhouses around the 1000 ppm. And it doesn’t become toxic to life at 4000 ppm or more. Submariners would know more than I do in this regard.

        My comment on the Q & A program was that the whole panel ( Wong, Ridout, Palmer, Jones et al. and even Truss) were still talking about global warming when a. it’s probably cooling and b. there is no valid mathematical relationship between levels of carbon dioxide and global temperatures, so a carbon tax will achieve naught.


        Report this

        40

    • #
      bobl

      Ahhh, the power of useful idiots


      Report this

      40

  • #
    the Griss

    Is this just another attempt to syphon some taxpayer money into his very shaky finances?

    Or is he going finance it out of the Chinese pocket like he did his election funding.?


    Report this

    150

  • #
    pat

    20 Aug: Hobart Mercury: Nick Clark: Tasmania’s Liberal Senators support the retention of the Renewable Energy Target
    TASMANIA’s four Liberal Senators say they will go in to bat for the Renewable Energy Target amid speculation the Abbott Government may scrap it…
    The target helped Hydro Tasmania to a record $238 million profit in 2012-13 from the sale of renewable energy certificates.
    Hydro says a $2 billion investment in a King Island wind farm will not go ahead if the RET is repealed and that the long-term viability of existing wind farms would be put at risk.
    Hydro is already expected to suffer a $60-70 million hit this year from the axing of the carbon tax…
    A statement on behalf of Senators Eric Abetz, David Bushby, Richard Colbeck and Stephen Parry yesterday said: “We support the position to keep the Renewable Energy Target in place…
    However, the three Federal Liberal backbenchers appeared more equivocal.
    Bass MP Andrew Nikolic said existing investments and the need to reduce electricity cost pressures facing households and businesses would need to be considered…
    Palmer United Senator Jacqui Lambie supports the RET but warns of a catastrophic domino effect if the RET forces big energy users such as Bell Bay Aluminium, Grange Resources, Nyrstar and Norske Skog to cut jobs.
    “I agree with Clive Palmer when he says that Australia should have a renewable energy target, however we must make the Australian states who have failed in the past to invest in sustainable, reliable renewable energy pay their fair share of the RET costs,” she said…
    Mr Palmer has opposed any change to the RET until after the 2016 election.
    http://www.themercury.com.au/news/tasmania/tasmanias-liberal-senators-support-the-retention-of-the-renewable-energy-target/story-fnj4f7k1-1227029793554


    Report this

    40

    • #
      Angry

      Tasmania’s Liberal Senators clearly have no empathy with the majority of Australians who are now struggling to pay electricity bills thanks to the RET (THE HIDDEN carbon DIOXIDE – PLANT FOOD TAX) !


      Report this

      50

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    20 Aug: Australian: Sarah-Jane Tasker: Chinese coal titan slams delays
    CHINESE-OWNED Shenhua Australia has warned that further delays to the approval of its NSW coal project will have an impact on future foreign investment decisions in the state…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/chinese-coal-titan-slams-delays/story-e6frg9df-1227029914696?nk=6c3899091c460e12ed25edca38786dce#mm-premium


    Report this

    40

  • #
    pat

    19 Aug: Japan Times: Chugoku Electric to buy into Australian coal mine
    Chugoku Electric Power Co. said Monday it will acquire a 10 percent interest in an Australian coal mine owned by a Japanese oil refiner to secure a stable source of fuel for its power plants…
    Japanese utilities are under pressure to secure new sources of fossil fuels amid a general freeze in nuclear power generation since the 2011 triple meltdown.
    Chugoku Electric, which serves the westernmost part of Honshu island, depends on coal for about half of the output from its power plants.
    It has set up a wholly owned subsidiary in Australia to participate in the mining there, which began in 2006…
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/08/19/business/corporate-business/chugoku-electric-buy-australian-coal-mine/

    pity the Unions don’t come out on the side of workers in cases such as the following. also note ABC doesn’t get a single quote from any person or group in favour of the mine, or who could question CAER’s claim***:

    19 Aug: ABC: Avani Dias: University of Sydney’s $900,000 investment in Whitehaven coal mine unethical: community groups
    Whitehaven Coal has faced strong opposition from local community groups concerned about the environmental impact of the Maules Creek Coal Project near Boggabri.
    Work at the mine finally ramped up last week, with the arrival of brand new plant equipment and production crews after a series of protests earlier this year.
    The National Tertiary Education Union, the University of Sydney Union, Greenpeace and the Indigenous community believe the investment contradicts the university’s ethical investment policy…
    Corporate Analysis Enhanced Responsibility (CAER) advises universities and other bodies on socially responsible investing.
    Chief executive Duncan Paterson said universities are under increasing pressure to move away from investing in fossil fuels…
    ***”An ethical investment funds manager will outperform over the longer term and has been shown to do this for a number of years.”
    The University of Sydney issued a statement saying it takes environmental and social responsibilities seriously.
    “Our portfolio is under constant review to ensure our social, environmental and governance responsibilities are balanced with our responsibilities to students, staff and donors,” it said.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-19/sydney-university-invests-in-whitehaven-coal-mine/5681152


    Report this

    40

  • #
    sophocles

    Just a nit pick Jo: you want insoluble (impossible to solve) rather than insolvable.


    Report this

    40

    • #
      the Griss

      “insolvable

      /ɪnˈsɒlvəb(ə)l/

      adjective: insolvable

      rare term for insoluble.”

      So either word is usable.. as is “unsolvable”

      “insoluble” could also mean ‘not able to be dissolved.’, ambiguous in some contexts.


      Report this

      30

  • #
    Safetyguy66

    Hes as wise as Princess Leia and as beautiful as Yoda…. no wait…


    Report this

    60

  • #
    Ross

    Why doesn’t someone suggest a tithe system to these alarmists. If they cannot persuade Governments to pay towards these ” fantastic” funds that are going to save the world , then maybe they could use a crowd sourcing approach just like other religions. So they agree that , say 15% of their income goes into the magic fund. “Put your money where your mouth is”
    Clive Palmer and Al Gore can start it off.( They would give Clive his knighthood and probably a dozen honorary PhDs for that effort)

    There are so many of them, they will be able to leave the rest of us alone


    Report this

    60

  • #
    handjive

    Only in Coolum Clive Country ….

    For entertainment we have Clive Talking. (to the tune of “jive talking”)

    For desert we have the banana splits.


    Report this

    30

    • #
      gnome

      We can all only hope Lambkins can tear herself away from her search for the ideal man long enough to perform as the hostess of the proceedings.


      Report this

      50

    • #
      bobl

      It’s all well and good to “editorialise” but we have this voting block for 6 years. What we actually need is something like UKIP you know, some real conservative values, people who really believe in tne rights of the individual, to move us away from the collectivist tripe that will be our downfall. ( Lord Monckton, are you lurking round this thread? ). Capitalism has it’s failings but it’s really the only sustainable government system that exists. Even China has had to introduce capitalism to counter the ever backwards regression of communist rule. We are throwing away capitalism at a great rate of knots, we need to stop, for the children don’t ya know, our children wont know what owning their own home is like.


      Report this

      130

  • #
    Neville

    Clive will probably call the Chinese bastards and mongrels AGAIN and will probably be applauded for doing so by the barking mad lefties.

    BTW another new SL study has found that some parts of the coast of Thailand have experienced SLR because of ground water extraction and recent earthquake activity in the area. Certainly not because of thermal expansion and melting glaciers etc.

    http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/new-paper-finds-groundwater-extraction.html

    They also found a 1 to 1.6mm per year global SLR or about 4 to 7 inches per century and that is 100mm to 175mm per century. Flannery and their ABC’s Williams have a lot of catching up to do. Certainly Robyn Williams claim to the Bolter would require well in excess of 1000 mm rise per year until 2100. Good luck with that Robyn.


    Report this

    51

    • #
      bobl

      Of course, that’s why he’s known as “100 meters Williams”, it’s not for his running skills you know. Of course he also deserves pedophile imputing of rapist imputing Williams, for his imputation that climate “deniers” are as bad as pedophiles or rapists of women ( presumably rapists of men are ok)

      100 meters Williams has a lot to answer for, he should have been sacked.

      I’m still trying to convince Jo to go private to replace him. Hmm, that gives me an idea for scaper… Jo pass on my email please

      Will do. – J


      Report this

      50

  • #
    bobl

    Time for a coal powered coffee don’t you think?


    Report this

    50

  • #
    handjive

    And what better forum …

    Climate change scientist calls on colleagues to speak up on global warming debate (the age)

    “In a speech to be given to the Australian Academy of Science on Tuesday evening, Dr Michael Raupach will say environment scientists’ position in the public debate had changed because they were now presenting evidence requiring society to make major choices in response.

    Dr Raupach, who heads the ANU Climate Change Institute, told Fairfax Media ahead of the speech ”Exhibit A”’ was human-induced climate change.”

    Exhibit A: Exhibit A!

    Communicating climate change – without the scary monsters (rtcc)

    The climate disaster narrative hasn’t worked. Ignorance is bliss. So how do experts plan to wake up the world?

    “Clocks are ticking.
    The sand is dribbling from the hourglass.
    Mercury levels are rising.
    And yet, if you pop your head out of the window, life goes on as normal.

    It’s a major headache for climate communication professionals in the developed world, charged with delivering a message of urgency to a public focused on more immediate concerns.”
    . . .
    Come on up to Coolum, Dr. Michael Raupach.
    First point of discussion: the 18 year hiatus in human-induced Apocalyptic Global Warming.


    Report this

    60

  • #
    MudCrab

    Jo writes…

    But far be it from me to claim that I know what Clive’s game is.

    Personnally? I believe Clive is acting on the mantra of ‘If in doubt, take action.’

    Clive seems to have gone through life moving from one bright idea to another, grabbing the shiney and leaving the dull for someone else to clean up. Anything he doesn’t want to answer he wraps up with either threats or vague comments that it is for the courts to decide. I would say that Clive is like a shark, and has to keep moving forward constantly, but that would imply he actually has real teeth.

    If, or when, all Clive’s past catches up with him, it is going to be messy.


    Report this

    80

  • #
    ianl8888


    Coal Miner Clive Palmer


    … while theoretically making his riches from digging stored carbon out of the ground


    … an estate agent who is running a coalmining empire

    Just like reading Green Left Weekly … perhaps the resentful hypocrisy is the common point, no ?

    To repeat my point from a recent thread: Palmer’s JV Galilee Basin Exploration Permits are NOT yet Mining Licences, so sneers about “Coal Mining Magnate” are just that – ignorant sneers, worthy only of the meeja. These Exploration Permits may, perhaps, become Mining Licences within a reasonable time frame, but is quite uncertain that Palmer will still be involved by then

    Oh, and for those who subscribe to the notion that mining is just digging a hole in the ground, which any fool with a shovel can do (a quite common fantasy), then perhaps you could try doing it yourself, do you think ? … without going broke, that is

    None of this is to support Palmer one way or the other – I’ve always thought he’s unhinged. Rather, it’s the unbridled hypocrisy of continuing to advocate coal-fired power generation while simultaneously sneering at those who actually do it

    Oh well …


    Report this

    20

  • #
    Neville

    The world’s largest solar plant is just another fraud and con. How much longer can this go on?

    http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/worlds-largest-solar-energy-plant-wants.html


    Report this

    50

    • #

      Oh dear, not another factoid the renewabale power fans failed to notice.

      These CSP plants have to wait for the Sun to come up in the morning for the start of their cycle.

      The Sun is reflected by the heliostat mirrors to a focal point. The compound is, umm pumped up (anyone notice this point, as what does it take to operate a pump to move the compound up to the focal point?) where that compound is heated to a molten state. This molten compound is then used to boil water to steam to drive a turbine/generator unit, and there are 3 X 125MW units on the three sites.

      However, (and this is not just unique to Ivanpah, but to all these CSP plants) they have to wait for the compound to become molten enough to make the required amount of steam, so they use a natural gas fired turbine to run the unit up to operation until the CSP process can take over.

      Oh dear!

      Ivanpah has a (claimed only) Capacity Factor of 31%, but that includes the operation with the NG operation as well, and that CF equates to around 7 hours and 20 minutes per day averaged out across the whole year.

      Now, very few of you will remember at the beginnings of the introduction of the CO2 tax here in Australia, and how the early idea was to make the cost payable by EVERY emitter of CO2.

      Then, all of a sudden, the set a lower limit, Now, why did they do that?

      There was a new proposal for a CSP plant here in Oz, and using the SOP for all these CSP plants, they also would be using a NG fired turbine to run the plant until the CSP process took over.

      They set that lower limit just above the emissions level for this proposed (and now thankfully failed) plant, because, umm, imagine how embarrassing it would be for a renewable power plant to be found to have to pay this new CO2 tax.

      For information on that solar plant, see this link, (from June 2011) and note the comment at the bottom of that Post.

      Tony.

      CSP – Concentrating Solar Power, also referred to as Solar Thermal Power

      NG – Natural Gas


      Report this

      71

      • #
        Bulldust

        Hey Tony, the installation is also very good at assisting Spontaneous Avian Combustion and blinding airline pilots:

        http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/08/18/a-birds-eye-view-of-the-bird-scorching-ivanpah-solar-power-plant/


        Report this

        60

        • #

          I’m reminded of what, at the time, was something that was given serious consideration.

          Orbital solar power.

          I detailed it during my original 52 part series that started me out on all this, and keep in mind this was written in May of 2008. Those 52 separate Posts started out as a hoped for series of perhaps 6 to 19 Parts at the most, and then I would be tapped out. However, the more I looked, the more had to be said.

          Kyoto – A Perspective (Part 21)

          Tony.


          Report this

          71

          • #
            Bulldust

            Yeah I saw something like that in a Bond movie :)


            Report this

            40

          • #
            bobl

            Well at least there aren’t too many birds to fry up there, of course there is the little complication of sending the power back to earth, you can’t just dangle a long wire down :-) . To do that they were going to beam it to earth using microwaves, it would be interesting to see what effect beaming a few megawatts of microwave energy through an atmosphere would have on the atmosphere, wildlife and human populations in the vicinity of the receiving antenna. Talk about a dead zone, even the soil would be dead. One would even have to make sure aircraft didn’t enter the beam. Not to mention the weapon potential, it couldn’t be allowed to happen.

            That plan was always crazy, and still is.


            Report this

            31

          • #

            Cure your ignorance and Google Peter Glaser and Gerry O’Neill. Frankly if that’s the best you can up with on SPS Tony, I’m sceptical of what else you write.
            There is vast literature on the space solar power sat concept. Before making glib dismissals it might be wise to actually read more about the concept. Most of your criticisms are unfounded and have been dealt with. Yes, with real engineering numbers.

            bobl, likewise.


            Report this

            03

            • #
              bobl

              What?, you reckon it’s practical to transmit gigawatts of power in a small space without making a potential weapon (or convenient accidents).


              Report this

              40

            • #
              the Griss

              “There is vast literature on the space solar power sat concept’”

              Read the last word !!!! No reality at all.

              CAGW is also a concept.. with no reality at all.


              Report this

              21

              • #

                OK I get it. Because you and bobl can’t get your minds around a concept it is fantastic and impossible.
                As for weapons and accidents you guys sound like every anti nuclear kook on the planet.
                The really funny thing is that all of us, every day, use things that were once considered fantastic and impossible. Communication over distance without wires(or signal fires and semaphore). Solid state electronics, nuclear energy(Ernest Rutherford thought it was impossible), aviation, even transmission of electrical energy over large distances by wire, electrical energy itself etc etc.
                Clearly you haven’t bothered to read about the SPS concept, which even now is being funded and studied by the Japanese. I’ll let you do your own research. SPS has at least one side benefit too – once we become a real spacefaring civilization as a result of it, it will be far easier to deflect the rock with the delivery address Planet Earth year wxyz on it.
                Anyhow, in the meantime, please feel free to continue to revel in your smug ignorance.


                Report this

                01

              • #
                the Griss

                Get back to us when they can power a light bulb from space. !


                Report this

                21

              • #
                The Backslider

                Ja ja ja ja ja ja ja ja!


                Report this

                10

              • #
                the Griss

                addendum…. Using only collected power.

                .


                Report this

                10

  • #
    Geoff Sherrington

    Clive Palmer has not yet revealed his modus adequately for a predictive future forecast and summing up.
    You have to remember that we have had Lib/Lab politics for decades and we have to expect some reaction when someone goes outside the brackets.
    A few of his comments have led me to reflect that I might well have taken a similar logic line.
    Suggestion -do not rush to a conclusion.


    Report this

    30

  • #
  • #
    pat

    i’d have some respect for Palmer if he just once went after some issue that has the total support of the major political parties, like the purchase of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighters:

    19 Aug: WashingtonBusinessJournal: Canada rethinks F-35 buy
    by Jill R. Aitoro
    As reported by the Washington Post, Canada — which initially agreed to buy 65 of the planes — has put the buy on hold. This comes more than a year and a half after Canada decided to re-examine whether they would purchase the F-35, following an audit, which found that the program would cost the Canadians $45 billion over the life of the program…
    More than a year ago I wrote about how Australia reaffirmed its commitment to the F-35, even as Italy, Denmark and Canada scaled back programs for example…
    http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/blog/fedbiz_daily/2014/08/canada-rethinks-f-35-buy.html

    19 Aug: Yahoo: This Map Shows Why The F-35 Has Turned Into A Trillion-Dollar Fiasco
    By Jeremy Bender, Armin Rosen and Skye Gould
    One reason why the project has become such a boondoggle is that many states and countries are significantly invested in the plane, relying on its production for income and jobs.
    Every U.S. state but Alaska, Hawaii, Nebraska, and Wyoming has economic ties to the F-35, with 18 states counting on the project for $100 million or more in economic activity, according to primary contractor Lockheed Martin. All told, the project is supposedly responsible for 32,500 jobs in the U.S…
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/map-shows-why-f-35-145300144.html

    25 July: WaPo: Paul Waldman: How the F-35 boondoggle shows that deficit hawkery is a sham
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/07/25/how-the-f-35-boondoggle-shows-that-deficit-hawkery-is-a-sham/


    Report this

    10

  • #
    Angry

    More on this imbecile clive palmer…….

    Palmer told to get on with case that could cost $30 million:-

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/palmer_told_to_get_on_with_case_that_could_cost_30_million/

    Palmer party is a proponent of the “death cult” of islam

    http://www.hotheads.com.au/say%20no%20to%20pup.htm

    What the hell is wrong with this joker???


    Report this

    31

  • #
    • #

      you do realise this is a spoof don’t you?


      Report this

      16

      • #
        • #

          I don’t think you realised that I was telling everyone else that you are a spoof and that I was already using that definition.

          I wonder if the mods understand what you are doing here.


          Report this

          23

          • #
            Yonniestone

            Gee Aye can you elaborate on your comment?

            I’d be interested in your thoughts.


            Report this

            40

            • #

              Well first Angry makes a contribution by simple abuse – not even clever or pertinent abuse, just abuse. They punctuate otherwise civil debate with what appears to be a childish parody of the red-neck “denier” as characterised by those who dislike sceptics. As an aside the blog rules forbid or at least discourage this type of comment.

              Second is that he/she frequently links to sites of extremely dubious quality but which contain content that fit with the “denier” red neck characterisation, as well as to sites well regarded and from the right of politics. This not only conflates climate change scepticism with being more concerned with politics than facts, it also equates them with being uncritical about the sources of information so long as it supports what they think.

              Every thumbs up that Angry gets is a vote for point 1 or 2 above and therefore can be inferred as coming from someone of limited reasoning ability.

              If one was wanting to troll a sceptics web site to confirm to like minded people that sceptics fit the characterisation I’ve outlined above, one would need to invent “Angry”. Mmaybe someone did.


              Report this

              11

              • #
                The Backslider

                So, how does “I was telling everyone else that you are a spoof” fit into that?


                Report this

                10

              • #

                Nothing is ever as simple as it seems is it?


                Report this

                11

              • #
                Yonniestone

                Thanks for the reply, I agree that there are some elaborate trolling methods on the web and find most mildly amusing but in the case of ‘Angry’ I’m not sure what damage could be done even if they are trolling for mud and potential conspiracy nutters.

                The Hotheads site linked seems to be created in 2007 with the name maybe coming from the term ‘hot heads’ used in many reports and statements during the Cronulla Riots, once again it’s only speculation and I would say that Jo and the Mods are quite capable of investigating anyone suspicious.

                I am a bit surprised at your concern Gee Aye considering your posts over the past years and I guess goes to prove people are sometimes difficult to predict, cheers.


                Report this

                10

              • #

                Yonnie- I don’t think my posts have ever shown unprovoked (and rarely provoked) rudeness or a lack of concern.


                Report this

                01

      • #
        James Bradley

        Gee Aye,

        You didn’t even read the article the link refers too.

        The bolt article is factual – the cartoon attached is merely a graphic representation of satire.


        Report this

        52

  • #
    Neville

    Steve McIntyre is keeping up the pressure on Mann. He has an extended series exposing the porkies told by him over the years and this is his most recent post.

    http://climateaudit.org/2014/08/19/yet-another-misrepresentation-in-the-mann-pleadings/#comment-722579


    Report this

    50

  • #
    Mattb

    “For Clive, putting up the bizarre facade of being a climate activist off-balances the left-leaning protestors and journalists who would normally treat a coal mining magnate like a cross between Ebola and the village idiot.”

    I’m not sure which lefties you are talking to? He’s after middle australia.


    Report this

    02

  • #
    gbees

    “We have to realise that if we want to trade with other countries and they have an ETS, they won’t allow our products to enter unless we have a similar scheme,” he said.

    Oh I see …. implement an ETS which will make our products far more expensive. We should be able to sell heaps!


    Report this

    40

  • #
    PeterS

    Looks like Clive Palmer is envious of the success of Al Gore’s con game, and so he wants a piece of the pie. It’s no accident to see people like these two involved in the AGW scam as there’s lots of money to be made; and I mean huge like billions. Too bad the vast majority of scientists who know the truth about all this and are skeptical about AGW are silent, yet they are the ones who are ideal candidates for hosting such a conference. I suppose that’s how the world runs – where there’s lots of money to be made the truth is the last thing to be treated seriously by all sides for different reasons and purposes.


    Report this

    10