JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

A place for roving thoughts …

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Weekend Unthreaded, 7.4 out of 10 based on 23 ratings

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183 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #

    Recently, Joanne allowed me a Guest Post on the electrical power availability situation in Africa, following the announcement of a new one unit 600MW coal fired plant for the Republic of Niger.

    In the U.S. next Wednesday, President Obama is hosting 40 African Leaders and hopes to sign a bipartisan Energy for Africa Bill with them present.

    Currently, there are two Bills in train going through Congress, HR2548, the Electrify Africa Bill having passed through the House of Representatives, and its companion, S2508, the Energize Africa Bill currently awaiting a vote in The Senate. Both Bills are angering the President’s big green political base, because the hoped for bill includes wording for all forms of power generation, with no included weasel words like “except for fossil fuels”.

    That Big Green lobby is using the United Nations standard for acceptable access to electrical power, and that is ….. wait for it ….. : (my Bolding)

    Their exalted global mission to force people in developing nations to live off-grid with only the energy for two light bulbs, a fan and a radio – a standard measure of “energy access” used by the U.N.’s callous “Sustainable Energy for All” initiative.

    Can you believe it?

    Then there’s The Sierra Club, which uses this standard.

    “Clean Energy Services for All,” defines energy access for poor nations as living on 0.15 percent of the average Californian’s annual usage

    The average power consumption for a typical California household is 20KWh per day. You do the Maths here. I’m so glad someone is looking out for those Africans.(/sarc)

    With the prospect of popping flash bulbs, and with a smiling President with 40 African leaders in tow, you can just bet the media will be all over this, umm, wonderful initiative.

    I seriously wonder if (a) The President, (b) the media, (c) any member of the combined Congress, and (d) the American public are even actually aware of the situation in Africa which I detailed in the Guest Post.

    Tony.

    Hat Tip to Ron Arnold at CFACT

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    • #

      On a slightly larger continent (Asia), the poorer folk of China and India for the past 10 years have had a small sniff of what can be done with that thing called electricity. They have liked what they smelled, so I do not think the “beliefs” of the Al Gores and Christine Milnes of the world will deter them from getting more of the “electricity stuff” as soon as they can and for as low a cost as possible.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        toorightmate is an understatement. I wish we in America could get the full electrical capacity we need. But life here has become too easy and the people are still asleep. They’re only beginning to wake up to the problem they have.

        We once knew the smell of what electricity can do for us but while still using all those electrical goodies, we’ve begun to believe less electricity is better. How’s that for a contradiction?

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    • #
      Winston

      And these people have the unmitigated gall to pretend they are humanitarians. Never has genocidal ideology been so socially acceptable among the compassionate so called progressive members of western society. It is bald faced and morally disgusting repression by unelected UN stooges, who continue their relentless campaign of debt enslavement while quashing any opportunity for the silent majority of the global populace of dragging themselves out of the dust of poverty and deprivation.

      I think the 3rd world will grow to resent what is being done to them by those representing us, in the name of CAGW mitigation, for many generations to come.

      232

    • #
      lemiere jacques

      energy for two light bulbs, a fan and a radio … as long you don’t light the bulbs on or switch the fan or radio on…sure unbelivable….

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      • #
        Sundance

        This is why 100s of millions of humans have died in countries without capitalism that were/are run by central planners like those making energy recommendations at the Sierra Club.

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    • #
      Sundance

      Re: Sierra Club energy figures

      20 kWh/day x 365 days = 7300 kWh/year

      7300kWh/year x .15% = .03 kWh/day which is 30 Watts for 1 hour per day which is only enough energy to power 1 LED bulb 3 hours per day. It sure would be nice if the Sierra Club and all their supporters could show us by example how they could live on .03 kWh/day before asking others to do so.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Tony,

      There’s a broader issue for the U.S. While Obama is busy trying to send our money abroad to electrify Africa, he’s doing all he can to shut down generating capacity here. I don’t know what goes on in his mind but I know the inevitable result of what he’s doing and I don’t like it.

      I’m ready to call the man what he is, a traitorous dog. Spoiling his country, the one he says he leads, while trying to build up other countries is the complete antithesis of his constitutional responsibility and 180 degrees opposed to the oath he has sworn to follow, not once but twice. He is thoroughly corrupt and I have seen more than enough evidence of it to satisfy me. I don’t know a more appropriate term for him.

      And at last, others who were once willing to give him polite lip service or the benefit of the doubt are beginning to call him out for what he does.

      Frankly, when he’s hurting America, I say, “No way!” to his initiative to help Africa. His responsibility is to us !!!! Let him live up to that responsibility and then we can talk about the rest of the world.

      Unfortunately he’s still president and gets to call a lot of the shots. But opposition is building. Even California’s Senator Diane Feinstein, who is as dedicated a left winger as they come, has openly criticized him. His approval rating is below 40% and he should be a sinking ship. Yet he at least outwardly doesn’t seem to even notice. I wish him failure in everything he does. The sooner we get him recognized for what he is, the better for the whole world.

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      • #
        Winston

        at least outwardly doesn’t seem to even notice

        But……he did shoot two birdies on the back nine at Congressional last week.

        Life’s good!

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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Two whole birdies, wow! Now if golf was only part of his job description…

          10

          • #
            Winston

            If you don’t count a half a dozen Mulligans.

            Being POTUS carries with it its own special ground rules, and privileges of course, as befits a person of his standing.

            10

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              I do appreciate your great sense of humor. But exactly what ground rules and privileges are pertinent to a man who lies, cheats and has a general standing that entitles him to be in jail more than anywhere else.

              I will certainly grant you this though. His golf record is about as good as anyone in the White House has ever managed to pull off.

              It is only a little unfortunate for that record that while vacationing in Hawaii, when he got word of an inbound airliner with a terrorist aboard, a terrorist whose bomb fuse was put out by a passenger, a passenger who had nothing to use but his hands and suffered serious burns in the process, POTUS stayed out on the golf course like he didn’t give damn.

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              • #
                Winston

                Sometimes the best way to deal with things that are ‘no laughing matter’, is to actually openly laugh at them, mock them mercilessly. It is the best defence against pretentious people in particular to deflate their air of self-importance.

                Recently Obama was quoted as saying the position of POTUS failed to stimulate him intellectually! This was, among many of his sins in office, one of the most egregious insults ever given to the American people.

                For one, Obama is not an intellectual under any definition of the term. Secondly, to attain the highest office in the land with that attitude reeks of intense narcissism and a disdain for the privilege of the office that was accorded to him, and a slap in the face of the American people who are struggling through a terrible economic plight with a man at the helm who can’t be bothered, or lacks the intellectual rigour, to attend to redressing the ever-increasing social problems that blight a once proud nation.

                I pity you and your fellow countrymen, Roy, to have fallen into this situation. Because your electoral system is so rigged and broken that no possible redress through the ballot box can ever occur. You, the voters, are playing a card game where the banker has all the cards marked, the other players at the table are all against you, and he has half a dozen Aces up his sleeve. You can’t win, no matter what you do.

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    • #
      dp

      A casual reading of the Sierra Club position suggests they hate Africans and find them undeserving of the largesse they themselves enjoy. That isn’t even enough electricity to send out an email to the UN pleading for protection from the twastard Sierra Club oppressors.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I think they hate nearly everyone but themselves, not just Africa.

        Hypocrisy is the word for what they believe in. They follow in the path of their founder, John Muir, who made so many beautiful photographs in the Sierra Nevada Mountains of California and has been quite a celebrity of sorts with books of his photos on probably many coffee tables and in many calendars to this day. But he famously said as follows,

        Man is always and everywhere a blight on the landscape.

        Look it up if you doubt the quote. That exact text in a google search will get you a lot of hits, “about 59,600″ from Google.

        So there’s no doubt about the intent of both John Muir in founding the Sierra Club and the intent of today’s Sierra Club, is there?

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    • #

      Tony

      …and (d) the American public are even actually aware of the situation in Africa which I detailed in the Guest Post.

      Apologies to Roy :)

      Would Americans even know where Africa is?

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Would Americans even know where Africa is?

        Unfortunately some would not. On the other hand some of us pay attention, even to Africa although I can’t say I’m an expert on the subject.

        And no need for apologies. I know what’s not going well and pretty closely, with whom it’s not going well. Knowledge of current affairs around the world simply escapes the grasp of some.

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        • #
          gesta non verba

          You don’t have to travel to Africa to get third world standards just ask the poor blacks of Detroit re-their water supply?

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          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Detroit should have been the political left’s Waterloo long ago. But they seem to slip by unnoticed — another thing I have trouble explaining.

            The place was a disaster in the mid 1980′s when I was there.

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        • #
          dp

          Beware cherry picking videos that seek to make a point.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7jnWOUjupo

          There are many such examples from all around the globe.

          00

    • #
  • #

    I could have included this with the earlier Comment about the electrical power situation in Africa, but this deserves a Comment all on its own.

    I was puzzled as to why none of the usual suspects from the other side of the debate which we follow were actually game enough to leave a Comment at that Power situation in Africa Guest Post of mine.

    A couple of them actually did comment, very carefully mind you, so that it wasn’t shown at the original site where it would be there for all to see, but at Other Posts of Joanne’s, hidden away so readers cannot see just how callous their outlook really is with respect to those people who don’t have what we take so utterly for granted, access to a regulated and constantly available source of electricity.

    One of those Comments puzzled me because it seemed to be almost, umm, definitive in its nature and I wondered where the information may have come from.

    One of those commenters, BilB, said the following: (at this link so I can’t misquote him)

    Alternatively just 2 panels in Niamey will produce 1500 kwhrs per year. To provide 2 panels and a small battery to 4 million households will cost less than 1.6 billion dollars and delivery 6TWHrs to all parts of the country, even the remotest parts. Furthermore the modular nature of the panels would allow flexibility of use particularly in the country side. The most important part is that there is no daily cost which would be $3 per week for the delivered energy. That is the money that families have available to buy some appliances such as small fridges, cell phones, led lighting, slow cookers.

    Umm, Two panels and a small battery.

    So, this would be not just a small system, but in fact a tiny system, virtually useless in fact. Tiny being the case then, that’s 2 X 250 Watt panels, so 500 Watts. Now, here BilB quotes actual power delivery of 1500KWh per year. That gives these panels a Capacity Factor of 35%. Currently, good quality panels have an average Capacity Factor between 9 and 13%, and nowhere on Planet Earth have solar panels delivered a yearly average of 35% of their rated Nameplate.

    Probably half of that power would be used just in charging the batteries battery during the day, and there’s no way known that a system such as this, with one ….. small battery would last much into the non daylight period.

    He also mentions a cost of $1.6 Billion for 4 million residences, hence a cost of $400 per system. Now, I’m certain that the people themselves would not be paying for this, all of it probably coming from a source wanting to do some good deeds in Africa, so that’s the two panels, the inverter, and the, umm, small battery and the associated wiring, all for $400, and please don’t try and tell me this will be high quality stuff.

    Say, given the do good nature of this, perhaps it could be done, but can you imagine $1.6 Billion given to an African Country for a project like this, and then expecting there to be no skimming, syphoning, corruption, stealing, going on.

    Also, isn’t it just wonderful to see that people like BilB are comfortable with this little fact.

    That 500 Watt system, all going well, at the best Capacity Factor of 13% will actually generate 570KWh of power a year, so that means the residence will be getting, on average 1.56KWh of power each day, and keep in mind part of that goes to charging the battery. It WILL NOT supply electrical power all through the night, so the idea, as BilB further suggests, that those 4 million residences can then have a small Fridge is just ludicrous.

    Then what happens after seven years (best case scenario) when the battery becomes unusable, and all new ….. small batteries are required for those 4 million residences.

    Don’t you just love how someone who lives where access to reliable and constant electricity which gives them the ability to have access to an average 20KWh of power for their home each day is really happy that people in Africa should get by on just 1.5KWh of power a day.

    And now ….. go back and read what BilB mentions in his small burst there. Note one of the most important things he says that the Africans who have zero electricity can do with their two solar panels. A bl00dy cell phone. Think about that for a minute. Would that be the most important thing that these people need, people living at the precipice edge of civilisation. Do you really think the first thing they ask for will be a cell phone. More likely response would be what the hell is a cell phone. And hey, I wonder what sort of electrical supply a Country would need to actually support a fully operational cell phone network into every nook and cranny of the Country, so all these people can have a cell phone.

    People like this on that side of this debate do themselves no favours when they show just how callous they really are. This, for them,is okay.

    Tony.

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    • #
      john karajas

      My goodness Tony, you are inserting reality into the situation. You wouldn’t be one of those evil engineers by any chance.:).

      On a more serious note: a wonderful piece of analysis and keep up the great work.

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    • #
      bobl

      Tony,
      Too right, charging losses are about 20% inversion loses are about 15% so Kiss goodbye to up to 35% of that energy. Now also consider storage capacity, 500W x 5 Hours is 2000Wh per day, at 12V that’s 208 Ah, now you can’t get cycle life from a battery if you keep deep discharging it, so you need to limit discharge to about 0.33C which means our “Small Battery” needs to be 624 AH, or about three truck batteries. Last time I looked you couldn’t buy that for 100 bucks at Supercheap Auto.

      You’re also going to need a battery charger/regulator of course there’s that pesky wiring, and the concrete box to stop it all being stolen.

      So we more likely have (omitting the concrete box)

      $500 2 x 250 W Panels (At $1 per watt) Cheap Chinese brand
      $750 3 x Truck Batteries
      $35 Regulator/Charger – Cheap Chinese brand
      $200 1 KW Sine wave regulator – Cheap Chinese Brand
      $50 Wiring
      $20 2x Led Luminaires
      $150 BilBs Cheap Chinese fridge with the overinflated energy rating

      Total
      1705 per system…..

      Such a system on paper should suffice but it doesn’t, it lacks something we take for granted – reliability

      Now let’s assume for a moment that even in Africa they have Weather, and sometimes the weather goes bad. We probably don’t want the frozen Wilderbeast, Rat, or unfortunate stray cat going off in the fridge when the weather’s bad, so, to even approach grid reliability for that system we have to overdesign it to cope with about 5 Days without generation.

      So now we have
      $3000 12 x 250 W Panels (At $1 per watt) Cheap Chinese brand after accounting for charging and inversion loss
      $3750 15 x Truck Batteries
      $125 Regulator/Charger – Cheap Chinese brand
      $200 1 KW Sine wave regulator – Cheap Chinese Brand
      $50 Wiring
      $20 2x Led Luminaires
      $150 BilBs Cheap Chinese fridge with the overinflated energy rating

      Total
      $7295 per system

      Taking the total cost to 4 Million households for a reliable 1500KWh per annum to $29 Billion

      But wait, it doesn’t stop there…. There’s a new set of steak knives to consider

      The Panels need to be replaced every 10 years (Hail and theft notwithstanding) and the Batteries every 3 years (let’s assume there’s no theft among the angelic poverty torn sections of African society, and everyone is perfect at looking after their batteries – Good luck with that, distilled water might just be a bit rarer in wildest Africa) (Note 3 Years because BilB elected the cheapie batteries, and not the real expensive deep cycle tech that lasts ten years)

      This of course adds up to an annual cost of $1425 per annum on average or Tada $0.95 per (grid equivalent – reliable) KWh. Or put another way 5.7 Billion per annum for BilBs 4,000,000 households.

      The $1.6 Billion BilB grand plan has now blown out to $29 Billion plus $5.7 Billion per annum. One would presume that 4 Million households could be provided with good ole reliable Carbon Power for a lot less than that.

      The takeaway here is an Oft Forgotten one, the premium to ensure that your frozen yak and the babies anti-aids medicine doesn’t go bad on cloudy days for Solar is the MAJORITY of the cost.

      ====================
      PS By the way, I know that Babies in Africa don’t get anti-aids medicine to put in the fridge, it’s part of the point I’m trying to make about “What’s Important”. Is it BilBs insistence on magical renewabubble unicorn fart and sunbeam energy, or is it the “Human Condition” that’s important consensusoids out there need to decide. If you decide “Human Condition” comes ahead of renewabubble, then welcome to the dark side, the side of Coal and Nuclear Power…

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      • #
        bobl

        OH Let’s also throw that cost into perspective, all that paraphernalia above could be replaced by two (redundant system) tiny 1KW petrol inverter generators costing $199 each at your local hardware store and even then you’d get up to 17400kWh out of that dual 1KW genset over the year that’s 11.6 times what BilBs modest 1500kWh system can do. For a fuel cost of less than $0.35 per KWh even at Australia’s inflated petrol prices – less than 1/3 the running cost of our equivalent reliable solar system above.

        Do a neighbourhood using a redundant diesel Genset and you might get down to 25c per KWh, 1/4 the running cost of the solar system, not to forget the Huge capital cost of over $7000 for solar, for which I could buy 35 of those 1KW Inverter generators or maybe 2 or 3 of the neighbourhood gensets.

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      • #
        bobl

        OK we have 1 red thumb so far who thinks the Renewabubble is more important that babies aids meds… The bid is One, do I hear Two thumbs, going, going -ah the greenie in the back are you bidding?

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        • #
          the Griss

          There is always some part of the GREEN BLOB lurking, not able to speak or type though its sickly green ectoplasmic slime exterior.

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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          I gave you compensating green ones.

          It’s too bad the overall score isn’t the algebraic sum of red (-) and green (+) clicks. That way something well liked could stay well liked even if there were a few naysayers.

          Just a thought.

          51

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Maybe I missed it if it was said. But I think maybe mention should be made of the handling and storage danger of batteries with the capacity to provide even small amounts of power. Lead-acid is the only thing capable of such jobs and sulphuric acid isn’t nice stuff. Then there’s the disposal problem to deal with. And I know the result of a short across the terminals of something no larger than an auto battery (about 40 ampere hours) because my brother-in-law managed to do it. It blew up. He was lucky not to be injured. Fortunately it blew out at the side, not the top. Of course the engine was anointed with sulphuric acid.

        Even the well sealed up gel type batteries in uninterruptible power sources for use with computers are a disposal problem and I’ve no idea if they can eventually break open if left discharged or abandoned after their useful life is over.

        Batteries are not a desirable solution unless you have no choice.

        50

      • #
        PeterK

        bobl: 2.2 Sorry, I accidentally clicked on a thumb down, s/h/b a thumb up.

        20

    • #

      Tony, by chance I’ve lived with two panels, though more than one battery. You can read at night, run a tiny television etc.

      You can hand-crank a phone if you’re in a hurry, so that’s trivial. No gas? You can run fridges and even televisions off kero if you have all the money for such expensive and specialised items. I don’t know how many batteries and panels you’d need to cook a meal. Nobody I know has ever tried, and I’ve known lots of people on solar. I had the gas cylinder, like most people, and used a Trangia metho burner as back up.

      I’m assuming that after charging phones and squinting around the low wattage bulb you’d have a kero pressure stove for cooking if gas is not allowed? Apparently when Interplas and cosmetic surgeons donate their services to the third world the commonest cause of burns and disfigurement is those pressure stoves. Dung and twigs are safer provided you don’t burn the hut down and don’t want to do a lot of breathing.

      Of course, that way one is back to using hydrocarbons and as well incinerating dwellings and humans…which tends not to happen when you burn coal somewhere else and transmit energy without flame, smoke or noise.

      But my apologies go out to BilB in case he is actually living with two panels and a battery. However I feel it’s more likely that he is one of our Green Betters, who live by the adage that one cannot burn an omelette without shattering all the eggs.

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    • #
      James Bradley

      Tony,

      I’ve seen this stuff before, during the 80`s in South America.

      The African countries can’t punt up so loans will be generated against the collateral of the valuable natural resources.

      There will be very generous incentives offered under the counter to the respective country’s presidents and shot callers to facilitate these loans.

      Subsidieries of the lender will be given the contracts so no money will actually change hands.

      The country will eventually default and the collateral will be forfeit to the lender.

      Any guesses who might lend against that and use its green subsidieries?

      150

    • #
      Mark

      Cannot remember the African politician in “The Great Global Warming Swindle” but well remember his sentiment. The western world would prefer Africa undeveloped. How can we industrialise our country on solar power, how can we power a steel mill or an electric train?

      20

  • #

    Many new mines have been developed throughout Africa during the past 20 years.
    There is no grid, so they provide their own power.
    Do you think the developers entertain/embrace wind turbines and solar panels? No bloody way.

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    • #
      bobl

      No, it’s Diesel all the way, cheap and reliable, cheaper by the way than domestic grid electricity in Australia.

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      • #
        Len

        Diesel power is backing up the Wind Farm in Merredin.

        50

        • #
          the Griss

          And of course diesel power doesn’t put any CO2 in the atmosphere, does it !!

          What will they do once some company starts making something similar to diesel, from coal. :-)

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      • #

        Diesel is only a cheap and reliable alternative for small-scale projects. Beyond about 200MW coal and gas are far cheaper. For instance island communities have long relied on diesel, such as the Isle of Man, UK or Penghu, Taiwan (where the plane crash occurred last week.
        I looked at the costs of diesel generators last year at my blog, as the UK government is increasingly using generators as standby for when the wind does not blow.
        As a rule of thumb, diesel currently costs around A$1.20 in the UK, and a litre will produce 4-5 Kwh of electricity. Other costs are an additional 50-100% of the diesel. That is at least 40 cents per kwh. Coal-fired power stations in UK are profitable with wholesale prices of 9 cents.
        The cost of diesel is so expensive that a few years ago the Isle of Man (with 50MW of diesel engines) was connected up to the National Grid with an 80km cable.

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        • #
          bobl

          You’re beancounting again. Tony’s post was abount pico-generation so I kept it with that but threw microgeneration in for good measure. Yes, in the west, where oil is expensive with huge taxes and environmental compliances that’s true, but elsewhere, say china and indonesia it’s been fine because the fuel is dug up by the state. It’s only now that china needs to up the energy density of it’s plants to supply it’s emerging grid that they have been forced to coal, which has much higher infrastructure cost, but a lower running cost. Diesel generation is the backbone of much of WA for example where gas has only recently been introduced (IE. outside the south west)

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          • #
            Mark

            Oops, missed the thrust. However, the same argument on a pico scale…either an electric light or a bar fridge!

            00

    • #
      Anthony

      There are three windturbines on Isla Baltra in the Galapagos, they stand tall and obvious on the island as it is completely flat, void of any tall trees and only contains a basic airport and a jetty.
      For the two weeks I was there I didn’t see the turbines move once, as thou they were there to serve just as follies to the ideological and to imprest the guest as they arrived on the aislands.
      But on the main island of Sanata Cruz, next to Baltra, is a small diesel plant about the size of an average size servo, running happily along supplying electricty for the 12000 residents, the tourist and researchers. It was like seeing the man behind the curtin, the real power house for the island.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I would think that in the Galapagos there would be significant wind at some point during a two week period. It’s hard to be out in the middle of an ocean without wind for very long. Sailing ships were basically a great success and the Galapagos were a frequent stop for them. So maybe those turbans were feathered and locked down for some reason. But it’s hard to imagine having put them up and not know you could get something out of them in advance.

        Folly might be the right word.

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        • #
          The Backslider

          I would think that in the Galapagos there would be significant wind at some point during a two week period

          Wrong. It’s rarely windy in this part of the World. Most times only a very slight breeze, not enough to turn one of these clunkers.

          20

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            I’m surprised.

            00

          • #
            DavidH

            Being on the equator, the Galapagos would be affected by the Intertropical Convergence Zone – colloquially known as the doldrums … would explain extended periods of little to no wind.

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            • #
              Rereke Whakaaro

              There was a jazz band, called Galapagos Duck, that used to play at the Real Ale Cafe, in Sydney. I have no idea if either of them is still going, but both were excellent – definitely taxi home material.

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              • #
                KinkyKeith

                Wife and I used to go to the Wentworth Hotel supper club in Syd to see Don Burrows quartet in the early seventies.

                KK

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              • #
                scaper...

                The last time I saw Galapagos Duck was early 1980 at an open concert outside Bangalow in Northern NSW.

                00

              • #
                Dave

                RW

                Galapagos Duck are still going

                Saw them last year at The Basement in Sydney

                00

        • #
          Anthony

          While I was there the wind seemed plenty strong enought to drive them, that’s why I pasted them off as just follies, looking all environmental and all as people arrive to the islands.

          00

  • #
    Truthseeker

    A must read for everyone. It is ten reasons why a confirmed leftist left the left …

    Very revealing from someone on the inside …

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Insightful reading indeed, the idea of word algorithms in blogs was very interesting, thanks for the link.

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    • #

      I like this comment:-

      “Truth is that which serves the party.” The capital-R revolution was such a good, it could eliminate all that was bad, that manipulating facts was not even a venial sin; it was a good. If you want to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs. One of those eggs was objective truth.

      I find that most supporters of climate “science” have a similar mentality. Recently I was surprised to discover from as Stephan Lewandowsky’s opinion surveys how left-wing are the believers in climate. They do not project this, as anyone who disagrees with them are right-wing nutters.
      See here.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      There’s no real surprise in these 10 reasons. But it’s quite stunning to see so much of it so succinctly stated in one place.

      I emailed the link to someone whose response I want to get. He has a whole mailing list of people to whom he sends stuff like this and he may forward it and it will get a lot of circulation.

      I can’t imagine myself being devoted only to what I hate, though God knows, there’s enough going on that you can hate if you want to. I’m much more interested in making changes that actually solve problems. Perhaps that’s why I’ve been so harsh on simply complaining without any action in the recent several months.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        You all know Christopher Reeve (Superman) and how he was paralyzed from the neck down by a riding accident. After that he was always looking and working toward a way to get out of his difficulty and regain the use of his body. One day I was listening to the radio while driving to work and the news reported that “disabled advocates” were criticizing him for his bad attitude about his problem because it would give people the impression that being disabled is an undesirable thing.

        My immediate thought was, “You’re damned right being disabled is an undesirable thing. And anyone who is disabled should be looking for any possible way to improve the situation, not just sitting around waiting to be handed perks like the privilege of parking in reserved spots wherever they go by some professional advocacy group’s activism. Good for Chris Reeve.”

        And that’s what they are, professional, making money from what they do. And all I could do is shout at the radio.

        Of course there’s no doubt that advocacy pressure has made being disabled in America a little easier than it otherwise would be. But then to complain because a high profile disabled man was seeking what every disabled person knows full well is what they want just adds insult to injury. And I know from personal experience because these days I only get around with the help of a cane and even that comes with some difficulty sometimes. I would much rather be able to square dance again.

        The thing I can’t quite get is why helping people so often becomes harming them. It makes no sense. It’s pathological. And it’s a curse on the human race.

        Left, right or center, if you can help someone or solve a problem, then by all means do it. But then be silent and wait for your next opportunity to be of real help.

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          Truthseeker

          Roy,

          This speaks to what I call “wheelchair welfare” that the collectivists like some much. The analogy goes like this.

          Situation: You are walking along the footpath and a complete stranger stumbles and falls down in front of you.

          Response from the right: Check that the person is unharmed. Help them up and see if they need any further assistance. If not, both people continue on their seperate ways. No one else is impacted and there is no further action required.

          Response from the left: Decide that this person is incapable of walking by themselves and to prevent any future occurence, use other people’s money to buy a wheelchair for this person and employ a bureaucrat to push it for them for now and into perpetuity. In doing so, the person can only go where the bureaucrat decides to push them and their own legs atrophy through lack of use and they actually loose the ability to walk …

          … and the left say the right is heartless …

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  • #

    Not really relevant to CAGW but a good laugh.

    60

    • #
      James Bradley

      Vic,

      I disagree.

      Comfortable middle-class lefties, or comfortable middle-class lefty students.

      They feel guilty because life is good and the have nothing to raill against.

      They need to be the victim, to feel victimised and to seek a saviour (I summarise the ten reasons).

      Shazam – victims of global warming, victimized by the evil CO2 producing capitalists, and worshipping a saviour in the acolytes of CAGW.

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    Jaymez

    Climate Audit by Steve McIntyre latest entry ‘Cook’s Fake Ethics Approval’ makes for interesting reading about our old friends Stephan Lewandowsky and John Cook.

    Recently, under Queensland FOI, Simon Turnill of Australian Climate Madness requested copies of any confidentiality agreements, agreement on intellectual property and ethics applications and approvals regarding Cook et al 2013.

    In response, the University produced NO confidentiality agreements, NO agreements with third parties on intellectual property and NO ethics application or approval for the SKS ratings program. Here are the FOI documents. They only include an ethics application for the author self-rating program, but, this application refers to the SKS ratings (for ~12000 papers) as already having been carried out by parties described as “Team members”. Nothing for the SKS ratings.

    On this record, I can only envisage two alternatives:

    (1) either the University has failed to produce the most relevant documents in their FOI dossier; or
    (2) claims by Cook, Lewandowsky and/or the University about supposed obligations in respect to SKS ratings arising from its “ethics approval” are untrue, fabricated and/or deceptive.

    Both Cook and Lewandowsky were, of course, involved in a previous incident also involving lying, a conclusion which Tom Curtis of SKS also reached: see here and here.

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  • #
    Richard111

    What are the maintenance requirements for modern batteries? I lived in South Africa and South West Africa for 20 years. My work back then was very dependant on standby diesel generators and very large lead acid batteries. First class maintenance was essential. Now you must consider keeping sand and dust off the solar panels.
    From experience I am not confident the systems envisaged by the USA will remain viable for any length of time.

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    scaper...

    Will be attending Ian Pilmer’s book launch, tomorrow night in Brisbane. Should be an interesting night now that that tax has been axed.

    Any readers here that are attending, say hello. I’ll be the guy with the smoking hot blonde (wife of nearly a quarter of a century) and interested in meeting you.

    Been musing on the TPC (Trees Per Capita) of Australians. Must be in the millions and that does not count other plants, shrubs and pasture that absorb CO2 from the atmosphere.

    I think I’ll need a much larger abacus to calculate the TPC…and a rather generous government grant to come to a 97% accurate conclusion.

    Is 97 the new 13?

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    • #
      bobl

      Would love to Scaper, but alas I live 100Km from there on the TPC, the TPC is huge though, Australia has one of the lowest population densities of any nation. There are about 7 Million “Households” here in 7 Million Square Km, that means we have about one house per SQUARE KILOMETER on average! Plenty of space for us and 50 million methane spewing Kangaroos and a few 10s of billions of trees and plants

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  • #
    Retired now

    I need to ventilate. I have a daughter who is studying a sustainability degree at university. While moderately questioning and clear in her thinking she has still been taken in by the global warming meme that is required both by those in her workplace and her uni degree. We agree to disagree but it is definitely divisive in our relationship. We also disagree politically as she has become more left wing as she struggles working full time, studying in the evenings and as a solo mother of 2 high schoolers who need to go to a private school (the local government high school is concerned with school leavers being culturally sensitive, able to read and do simple arithmetic on a calculator and didn’t have any student get to university standard in a couple of years).

    What gets me is that she really believes that my beliefs are destructive and based on presuppositions that she can’t go along with. I feel much the same about her outbursts against anyone to the right of… well I don’t know really, left centrist perhaps. She isn’t alone though. So many of those who work in the helping professions and universities really believe there is a huge pot of government money which is by right theirs. They don’t seem to link public spending with taxation that comes from us all – but gets very angry when a government handout is taken away again when the coffers become reduced. She seems to think that I’m someone outside “normality” as if becoming more right wing as I have aged is a disease which needs to be dealt with, or perhaps just suffered through. Her normal is vast government handouts and massive government controls all in the name of sustainability and “rights”
    /Rant off.

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    • #
      Andrew

      What skills does one learn in a “sustainability” degree, if any?

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    • #
      Truthseeker

      the local government high school is concerned with school leavers being culturally sensitive, able to read and do simple arithmetic on a calculator and didn’t have any student get to university standard in a couple of years

      So the collectivist high school cannot provide the basic raw material for university indoctrination … maybe there is hope for the future.

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    • #
      bobl

      Unfortunately it’s a cult mentality. you tackle these beliefs like a cult. Don’t bother with the science, anyone who is studying sustainability isn’t interested in science. The way to tackle this is to show the immorality of rampant “Sustainability” practices (Which aren’t particularly sustainable).

      The basic problem is that the younger generation (and this goes for every younger generation) don’t build up an understanding of how the world really works until much later in life. They also don’t understand privacy, and individualism, the young are biologically driven to be collectivist. This gives them an ignorant view of Morality that has to be broken down to disconnect them emotionally from the cult. It’s harsh, but it works.

      Look up some of my past rantings about the “Questions”. But here are some of them.

      Is it really OK that 25000 pensioners had to choose between eating and heating in the UK last winter.

      If yes it’s OK ask if it would be still OK if it was her Gran that died

      Is it OK that millions of hectares of forest is being razed for a palm oil monoculture to grow palm oil for Biodiesel

      Is it OK to turn corn into Ethanol for cars or should we feed hungry people with it?

      Does she know the best fuel for power stations after pulverized coal is flour.(same calorific value roughly)

      Should we use preindustrial fuels for burning EG Like CO2 friendly, earth saving, Whale Blubber

      Does she know how pointless wind and solar are (Read TonyFromOz or my rantings on that subject) and that the only viable non emitting fuel is Nuclear.

      Is it more morally justifiable to build Cyclone Shelters in the Philippines or windmills in South Australia to control cyclone deaths in the Philippines

      Given mankind has grown to over 6 Billion people on the back of improving CO2 levels a return to preindustrial CO2 (Zero Emission target) would result in a 40% reduction in Vegetative productivity which would induce a world famine of epic proportions (IE Food yield) does she class that outcome as sustainable? If not then mankind is locked into at least maintaining CO2 at 400PPM by emitting CO2.

      Is it OK that Poor farmers in Africa are being evicted off their traditional lands or killed to make way for Carbon Offset projects.

      Is it really OK that we spend (on The Labor plan) 100 Billion dollars to reduce our Carbon Intensity… That is actually increase CO2 emissions 11% while millions of real people are dying NOW from Ebola, Aids, Cancer, Hepatitis and Malaria around the world. Would it be better to divert the money to real Human problems like these rather than a purely theoretical problem for which there is no actual physical evidence.

      Note well, smashing someones belief system like this comes at a risk, it’s not easy… I have found that after this the cultists either give up and see the light, or they double down, declare that the world is overpopulated and they really do want to kill half the population of the earth (as long as it’s not them). You might not be ready for what you find out.

      I can help with other points if you need it…

      Bob

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        bobl

        Damn I’m unpopular today…

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          Bones

          bobl,you’re not unpopular,it’s only one red thumb,please don’t become depressed,it just means some gangreen/left uni educated idiot,with a degree they cannot use disagrees with you.This is not a bad thing,unless you are the one with the red digit.It is a well known fact that youth is wasted on the young.

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          • #

            For me, a red thumb is a badge of honour.

            It means that someone does not like what I have said because it offends their sensibilities, a logical counter to the brainwashing they have just accepted as verbatim. They cannot argue against what is said for fear of being shown up, and the only recourse they have is the anonymity of the red thumb.

            I love them.

            Tony.

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          • #
            bobl

            Sorry, forgot the /sarc tag,

            In fact I find it astounding that someone would vote against, pensioners surviving winter, cyclone shelters in polynesia and food for all. Those red thumbs represent those people who would double down, declare the world is overpopulated and advocate culling the human race – that’s a crime against humanity in my book, and it needs calling out, unfortunately the anonymous thumbs rarely bother to stick their heads above the pulpit. One day I must see if Jo will give me her log data for a month or so and I can analyse the POST requests on the red thumbs, I reckon that would show interesting things.

            I love the red thumbs boys’n'girls, keep ‘em coming so you can show us capitalist b*****ds just sociopathic you really are! (Accidental red thumbs exempted)

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        Another Ian

        BobL

        I’d suggest treating those red thumbs like Jock McLaren of “One Man War” on first seeing the reward poster put up by the Japanese in the Phillipines for his capture

        “He chuckled and set out to raise the price”

        (wording from memory so approximate)

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    • #
      Bones

      Maybe Ms retired now Jr could make you one of these sustainable musical instruments and play you a soothing tune,it’ll make you feel better.After the performance you can all gather around and fry the instrument for a quick and healthy snack.Is that sustainable or what?For this info there will be no degree and no fee.

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    • #
      Plain Jane

      My sympathies. I have found it easier to avoid old friends than have to ignore the ideology. Hard when it is a close family member. Re: the handouts, to me it seems to be a weaning problem – there must be a milk supply somewhere, if only we yell loud enough. I think leftism speaks to the mamalian mid-brain which is not very susceptible to logic.

      On the other hand your daughters strategy and that of her associates on which she depends (to live on the public teat) is self serving so you grandchildren should do OK and survive to further your families long term fortunes. I am not intending to be nasty here, just pointing out that this strategy does work in practice.

      I dont blame people for living off the public purse, because in a way we are the silly ones for not doing it. I do just get annoyed by the preaching and feeling of superiority that often goes with it.

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    James Bradley

    I sympathize although I have no such issues with mychildren, I trained them from an early age to look behind everything for hidden motives and agendas.

    This started from educators teaching that drug use in teens was normal experimentation.

    When I pointed out the drug dealers were business men making huge profits and expanding their market base by hooking teens with freebies they got the message.

    I know it isn’t that simple because of my own profession, but you need basic concepts for children when starting out because their brains don’t develop the ability to see future consequences until it’s too late, oh and there is this…

    … perfect paranoia is perfectly prepared.

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    Retired now

    This daughter left home a long time ago and is now in her mid 40s. Life isn’t easy for her and she works very hard, not expecting personal handouts, barring tax breaks. But she works in the caring sector amongst lefties and now the university study really strengthens the belief system. One of the troubles is that its going to take another 5 and a half years to finish this degree – its a 10 year long haul. But without it she won’t be able to progress in her work – management roles require a degree, though I’m not sure why other than it screens out some people as unsuitable, so reduces competition at the higher levels.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Retired now, it can be tough I’ve lost contact with 2 sisters and 1 daughter over this insane indoctrination of the green guilt cult and I really can’t offer much advice except to say I’m sorry for the unnecessary crap your having to go through.

      Seriously I can’t understand the attraction of adopting this miserable leftie dogma, life can be unpredictable enough without creating dramas out of nothing for nothing.

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      • #
        bobl

        Some people really love a drama though Yonnie, see how popular Home and Away is! People that have good lives though have to invent dramas. Me I’m different (everyone tells me) I have this Philosphy that if life is quiet and boring then nothing is going wrong, and life’s good.

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    • #

      A 10 year degree!!!!!!
      At last, I now understand what is meant by “sustainability”.
      I guess a masters degree in sustainability takes 20 years and doctorate takes 30 years.

      Gee wizz, 10 years is sure a long term to learn the intricacies of basket weaving.

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      • #
        The Backslider

        You should go down to the ANU in Canberra. It is full of “lifetime” students…. that’s their lifestyle, they never, ever go out and work…. just sit up in the Bridge Room smoking pot.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Underwater basket weaving takes even longer.

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      • #
        Retired now

        Its only 10 years if you do it one paper at a time. Its a normal 3 year undergraduate degree if done full time. It would be the same if it was an ordinary arts or science degree. My other daughter has just finished her medical science degree after 12 years part time while working full time. Its a long haul.

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    • #
      James Bradley

      Retired Now,

      Same, same, then you need to be pragmatic. As long as your children are not self destructive, they are adults.

      I just try to avoid issues that I know will cause friction with my kids, they are in their 30′s and have lives of their own, I’m happy when they still ask for advice.

      Which further shows what a cult the whole pro global warming agenda has promoted, when reasonable people become reluctant to discuss or debate the issue for fear of reprisals or repercussions.

      It is an evil and divisive religious mentality.

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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        I am glad you found a formula that worked with your kids.

        I have two daughters, neither of which talk to me, and I have at least two granddaughters, one of which I have only seen fleetingly in a produce market, before her mother saw I was there, and promptly left.

        I think the professions we choose, and how those professions are viewed, by the hive-mind of later generations, have a great bearing on how the important things turn out — or not.

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        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Unfortunately RW you are describing a common situation.

          Did your daughters suffer from pre or post natal depression or both?

          Pregnancy can be an extraordinarily stressful time and lead to trivial past incidents being magnified out of all proportion and being mixed with images from movies and media reports to form a “new” reality for the pregnant one after birth.

          When judged against the modern pop culture image of what a father should be’ we all fall short.

          KK

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        • #

          Sorry to hear that, RW. Very sorry.

          10

  • #
    pat

    27 July: UK Telegraph: Patrick Sawer: Anger grows over Jurassic Coast wind farm plans
    Opposition to a controversial plan for a giant wind farm off the Jurassic Coast is mounting
    Plans to build 194 wind turbines, each up to 650ft high, off the coast of Dorset, Hampshire and the Isle of Wight have prompted widespread opposition from people who fear they will ruin magnificent views and damage tourism across much of what has come to be known as the Jurassic Coast…
    Now the area’s MPs have voiced their own opposition – claiming any benefits offered by the wind farm in terms of jobs would be outweighed by its impact on a treasured landscape.
    Their warnings came after UNESCO said the World Heritage Status of the Jurassic Coast, which stretches along 96 miles of Dorset and East Devon coastline, could be withdrawn if the Navitus Bay scheme goes ahead…
    But Richard Drax, the Conservative MP for South Dorset, said: “It beggars belief that anyone ever thought of putting a wind farm of this size and complexity here, so close to shore. We know already that it will have far reaching repercussions, way beyond anything the developers’ environmental impact report has acknowledged. For example, it has been independently calculated that the construction, with its resulting sediment disturbance, will affect 5 million square metres of seabed.
    “Add to that a number of as yet unexplored effects, including constant sound, ultra low frequency hum, light flicker, rain shadows, radar shadows and the physical obstacles to bird and marine life and the scale of the problem becomes clearer.”
    Mr Drax added that the wind farm would have a hugely detrimental impact on tourism, one of the area’s main industries…
    Others objecting to the plans include Robert Syms, MP for Poole, Christopher Chope, MP for Christchurch, and Bournemouth MPs Tobias Ellwood and Conor Burns…
    Elaine Atkinson, Conservative group leader, said the coastline was in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB), adding: “To place an inefficient industrial complex slap bang in the middle of it offends common sense. Whilst we support renewable energy, far too many concerns remain unanswered and the questionable benefits are far outweighed by the negatives,” she added.
    Opponents say the wind farm would need “massive subsidies” and would only have a life of 25 years, while the sea bed and immediate area would be affected for hundreds of years…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/10987650/Anger-grows-over-Jurassic-Coast-wind-farm-plans.html

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    • #
      diogenese2

      The Jurassic Coast is not a world heritage site for nothing.
      The scenic beauty is paralleled by the beauty of the science of geology, to which this area is historically integral, and in the art and literature that it has inspired. The bare idea of despoiling the place with symbols of scientific, economic and
      ideological folly is frankly obscene. That supposedly intelligent people can contemplate such vandalism makes me weep.
      But even those in the front line are so brainwashed that they
      they repeat the mantras of the party line.
      Note the comments of Eileen Atkinson ” inefficient industrial complex ……questionable benefits far outweighed by negatives” and yet “we support renewable energy”.
      Not though in her back yard.

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    • #
      bobl

      Nice post Pointman… Enjoyed it, pity they don’t all get their comeuppance (Gleick comes to mind)

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  • #
    Paul in Sweden

    Pet Peeve:
    It somewhat annoys me that people go out of their way to insert a ‘k’ when abbreviating the notorious SS(Skeptical Science) activist website where the founders have in the past posted pictures of themselves in WWII Nazi SS uniforms. A spade should be called a spade and apologies should not be proffered on behalf of fools.

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    • #
      Carbon500

      Any Englishman will tell you that the correct spelling is ‘sceptical’.

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      • #

        The original spelling is with a “k”. After the American colonies revolted King George III decreed that British spellings should be changed, to make English different from Americanese.
        Another change was from color to colour.

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        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          Yes, well, he was a total loony.

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          • #
            ROM

            Rereke @ #14.1.1.1

            Re George III

            “A total loony”?
            Maybe not at all particularly before he became ill around 50 years of age and despite what historians have previously claimed about his apparent metal illness.

            From the BBC;

            What was the truth about the madness of George III?
            &
            King George III: Mad or misunderstood?

            [quoted ]
            “King George is largely remembered for those periods when he lost his mind. But it’s been difficult to explain these attacks, so I was keen to analyse this hair sample,” said Professor Warren.

            When the hair was tested by the Harwell International Business Centre for Science & Technology in Didcot, Oxfordshire, the results were surprising.

            The king’s hair was laden with arsenic. It contained over 300 times the toxic level.

            “This level is way above anything we were expecting – it’s taken us completely by surprise.”

            &

            One of the great mysteries of King George’s porphyria was the severity of his attacks.

            It is rare for men to suffer this acute form at all – normally males show no symptoms.

            And – a final puzzle – King George didn’t have any attacks before his 50s.

            Arsenic to blame?

            Analysis produced surprising results
            Professor Warren knew that porphyria attacks can be triggered by a wide range of substances – alcohol, common medication, even monthly hormones. Perhaps arsenic could also be a trigger.

            He contacted Professor Tim Cox, an expert on extreme cases of porphyria at Addenbrookes Hospital in Cambridge.

            Professor Cox confirmed his guess – arsenic was listed as a trigger. And the massive levels found in King George’s hair suggested that the arsenic had been liberally ingested over a long period of time.

            The two professors began poring over the King’s medical records preserved in the Royal archive at Windsor.

            There was passing reference to arsenic used as a skin cream, and as wig powder, but nothing that could explain the staggering levels of arsenic showing up in the king’s hair.

            The most common medication he was given was James’ powders, a routine medicine he was being given several times a day – made of a substance called antimony.

            Final clue

            Tracking down James’ powders at the Royal Pharmaceutical Society, Warren found the final piece of the puzzle in a 19th century almanac.

            Antimony, even when purified, contains significant traces of arsenic.

            The arsenic from the very medication he was being given to control his “madness” was triggering more attacks.

            His porphyric attacks had been brought on after a lifetime’s arsenic accumulated in his body, and then were made much more prolonged and more severe by the medicine to treat him.

            For professor it is the end of a long trail.

            “It is a very convincing explanation of the king’s attacks, and could account for why he had them at such a late stage in life and why they were so severe.

            “So in that sense, yes, it’s very satisfying.”
            -____________________

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              Rereke Whakaaro

              I stand corrected — he was a late-onset loony. ;-)

              That also debunks the theory that George III’s mental state was hereditary, which will confound some of the commentators in regard to Prince Charles.

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              • #
                Peter C

                No Prince Charles is not a hereditary loony. His mother is quite sensible. His father on the other hand has a contempt for most of humanity, which shows through occasionally, but otherwise seems quite sane.

                Other members of his family are not especially odd, given the ordinary behaviour of members of their social circle (or class as they would say in Britain).

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            • #
              Winston

              Thanks ROM, that was an excellent font of information.

              It certainly was not uncommon for the medicos of that era to “prescribe” treatments which actually exacerbated a real problem instead of curing it.

              Likely the powders induced a palliative effect on such symptoms as nausea and loss of appetite (Phar Lap was given regular arsenic to stimulate his appetite), but actually unbeknownst to his physicians they were causing long term accumulation, and delayed and catastrophic negative effects that they were unable to comprehend with their limited knowledge.

              Plus ca change……….

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              • #
                Peter C

                Exactly right Winston,

                Plus ca change……….

                Probably no different now so far as the Medical Profession is concerned.

                00

              • #
                Winston

                Peter,
                The professionalism of the medical profession is far better than it was then (and it would want to be). The body of knowledge is far advanced comparatively to the minute spectrum of knowledge in George III’s era. Where medicine strikes an inevitable snag is when dealing with illnesses where it has little understanding (but where it is still expected to supply solutions) to base empirical treatments upon. It is an evolutionary process, but for the most part is pulled toward truth more often than not by alert practitioners who recognise when a therapy is not very useful, and it therefore gets discarded pretty quickly. Unfortunately, in the area of diet, and in some aspects of psychiatry (particularly paediatric and adolescent), the knowledge base is so flawed and as yet rudimentary, making treatment in this area fraught with problems with the potential, if not alert for it, to cause more harm than good. It is the bane of a medico’s existence, and a dilemma I have encountered on more than one occasion.

                But I more specifically would refer to such things as cosmetic surgery, “orthomolecular medicine” and various other fringe therapies which some medical practitioners dabble in, which are a vast wasteland of opportunism, greed and very little that could be deemed scientific.

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            Winston

            King George III was a very unfortunate man, suffering as he was from acute intermittent porphyria, a genetic error of haemoglobin metabolism inherited from the Stuart line. The build up of toxic metabolites due to this inborn enzymatic deficiency led to outbursts of confusion, anger and aggression, as well as port wine staining of urine and even fluorescent faeces.

            This latter attribute may well be the derivation of the coining of the phrase: “a flash in the pan”.

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              KinkyKeith

              That comment is a good example of why I like this website,

              :)

              KK

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            • #
              Winston

              I see ROM has stolen my thunder a bit here, but when I posted for some reason his post wasn’t there, and now appears like magic- I assume it spent some time in moderation.

              *By way of attribution, the joke above is not mine, but derived from a biochemist by the name of Dr Viv Whittaker, who studied and lectured on the porphyria gene as it traced from James 1 & VI through the Royal families thereafter, and gave a brilliant lecture on the subject during my undergraduate course. Still a good joke deserves repeating.

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              • #
                KinkyKeith

                So the whole comment had some basis ; it wasn’t just a Flash in the Pan.

                btw some of the local crazies like to put fluorescene dye in the main city fountain every now and then.

                KK

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              • #
                ROM

                Winston @ #14.1.1.1.1

                I’m gonna run out of “1″ on my keyboard if this keeps up’s.

                Yep I went into moderation for that one @ #14.1.1.1 this morning possibly because I cleaned my browser and cookies caches and the post might have then have come up as a new poster with no cookies from my URL to forewarn the server and so into moderation I was sent just for safety checking.
                My guess but probably wrong as I am a computer neophyte

                [ “neophyte”; Novice in a religious order which seems to fit nicely with my lack of computer nous!

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          Roy Hogue

          Now Kevin, I was told that Noah Webster, founder and original publisher of the dictionary still bearing his name today, was the guy who changed the spelling and some of the British grammar as well that now makes American English different from the British and by implication, Australian.

          Help! Color me confused. :-)

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          • #
            Roy Hogue

            King or Webster? ;-)

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            • #
              KinkyKeith

              Hi Roy

              My impression on this from a very long time back, was that the Americans changed the English spelling.

              eg colour to US color?

              Yours in confusion

              KK7

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          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            Just to add to the degree of confusion …

            I was told that Webster changed the spelling, in order to move towards a more phonetic, and therefore simpler spelling, and away from the French spelling in so many “English” words.

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            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Now that actually makes sense. Of course, American English promptly screwed it up with so many exceptions to the rules that I think I’ll never master them all.

              If it was really to be phonetic then food would be spelled f-u-d and be done with it. But before you can do that you have to get over the hurdle that “u” can be pronounced two different ways and then… …there’s the letter “x” too. And Xerox managed to get both pronunciations in the same word.

              Give me Spanish or give me death! Oh no! Wait! That’s the wrong speech.

              Well, by now you get the idea.

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                Graeme No.3

                Roy,
                George Bernard Shaw left a deal of money in his will for anybody who could ‘sort out’ English so it became phonetic i. e. each symbol pronounced the same way. It is still available if you hurry.

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                Roy Hogue

                The whole concept of using pairs of letters to represent unique spoken sounds that have no letter of their own in the alphabet was a mistake. Fixing it would take adding a number of characters to the alphabet. And that would never be accepted now that we have only about 330,000,000 people who use the language the way it is just in this country alone — assuming, of course, that they all actually can use it, which isn’t really true — not including the rest of the world.

                Any attempt at such a change would go over about as well as the idea of changing the U.S. to metric units instead of English which died from a couple of million complaints to Congress.

                The change to metric may well happen anyway because now metric units are being taught more and more in school along with the English and so over time you have a larger and larger population who are facile with both. Eventually the convenience of metric units will win the day and the English foot will become another Dodo Bird (and good riddance). But it will take a number of generations to happen.

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                Roy Hogue

                And then if it was completely phonetic, every different accent across the country would spell the same word differently. If you’ve ever heard that beautiful southern drawl y’all will know what I’m ta’kin ’bout. Ya hea’.

                Well I can’t even imitate it. But it sounds so good, so friendly and inviting if done by someone who grew up with it.

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          Colour/color comes from the Old French colour that came from the Latin color.

          From dictionary.com

          from Latin scepticus, from Greek skeptikos one who reflects upon, from skeptesthai to consider

          You’ll find that spelling in English varied a lot prior to the 18th C and the upper class preferred the French style probably because it was less phonetic. More difficult for the plebs to pretend to be educated?

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          Carbon500

          That explains why I’ve only ever seen ‘sceptical’ spelt with a ‘c’ during my 65 years as a UK resident!

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    pat

    you may recall an earlier Reuters’ report where EU energy commissioner Guenther Oettinger, was reported to have said “planned sanctions against Russia, currently being worked out by the EU commission “should not include oil, gas, coal and uranium imports.”

    since then, there’s been a followup, which doesn’t spell out the fact “physical energy supplies” will not face sanctions, but it is implicit nonetheless – in the headline, in the mention of “scaling back” & by stating Oettinger “reiterated” how he had never supported “the idea of sanctioning physical energy supplies”. don’t expect plain facts from Reuters or any MSM these days.***

    25 July: Reuters: EU will exclude gas technology from Russia sanctions: sources
    The scaling back of the EU’s ambitions shows the difficulty of agreeing forceful sanctions against Russia without risking damage to the bloc’s fragile economy…
    Concerning sanctions on sensitive technologies, the letter from EU Council President Herman van Rompuy says one of the principles emerging is that restrictions on sensitive technology would only affect the oil sector, not the gas sector, because of “the need to preserve EU energy security,” the sources said on condition of anonymity.
    ***Earlier this week, European Energy Commissioner Guenther Oettinger reiterated that he had never supported the idea of sanctioning physical energy supplies…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/25/us-ukraine-crisis-eu-letter-idUSKBN0FU21J20140725

    Obama may want the EU to commit energy suicide, but reality suggests European politicians may not be keen to oblige.

    24 July: European Parliament: The EU’s energy dependence: facts and figures
    The cost of energy dependence
    The EU imports 53% of the energy it consumes, including almost 90% of its crude oil, 66% of its natural gas and 42% of its solid fuels such as coal. In 2013 the bill for external energy amounted to about €400 billion.
    Europe is also heavily dependent on one single supplier, namely Russia, responsible for a third of oil imports,39% of gas and 26% of solid fuels. Six EU countries depend on Russia as the supplier for their entire gas imports…
    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/content/20140718STO53032/html/The-EU's-energy-dependence-facts-and-figures

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    pat

    the reality:

    27 July: UK Daily Mail: As Germany wins reprieve on Russian gas and France sells Russia warships, Minister warns…City WILL feel pain of sanctions
    Meanwhile, Germany and Eastern European states are determined to stop sanctions affecting oil and gas imports, since their economies are so dependent on Russian energy. The Germans appear to have succeeded and this weekend the expectation is that gas and oil imports will be unaffected. There has been no mention of coal so far.
    While the UK gets a fraction of its gas from Russia, it provides nearly half our coal…
    Tony Lodge, of the Centre for Policy Studies think-tank, said: ‘Everyone keeps talking about Russian gas and oil, but in this country we have a real liking for Russian coal coming from the Baltic in summer or Archangel in winter.
    ***‘I know of traders who are looking to double their coal import contracts to the UK now. This is hard stuff. It’s about keeping the lights on.’
    Last week a deal to keep open one of the UK’s last deep pit coal mines in Kellingley, Yorkshire, failed leaving the country more dependent on Russian coal than ever…
    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2706757/The-City-London-WILL-feel-pain-Russia-sanctions.html

    more MH17 hysteria from Clegg, bordering on the insane, yet no evidence has yet been presented that implicates Russia in the downing of the plane, and MSM has reported five days ago that US Intelligence say they don’t have any such evidence. what a world we are living in:

    27 July: Australian: Strip Russia of 2018 World Cup demands British deputy PM
    by Tim Shipman and David Leppard, Sunday Times
    In an interview with The Sunday Times, Nick Clegg said it would be “unthinkable” for Putin to enjoy the prestige of hosting the global football tournament and called for “tougher sanctions” on Moscow…
    Clegg said the Russians should also forfeit the right to host their first Formula One grand prix in October, a move the sport’s ringmaster, Bernie Ecclestone, has rejected…
    ***He said western countries should be prepared to take an economic hit to punish Putin because “the stability of the European continent” was more important than “short-term political damage to this economy or that sector”…
    “Let’s remember, Russia needs the rest of the world, and particularly needs the European Union and access to its huge markets, much more than the European Union in the long run needs Putin…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/strip-russia-of-2018-world-cup-demands-british-deputy-pm/story-fnb64oi6-1227003111691

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    Paul in Sweden

    Hey! Has the next Australian Ship of Fools voyage to explore the shrinking ice cap been announced yet or has it been postponed until you folks can just walk or drive there on the ice?

    To Any That Know:

    -Who actually received and paid the bill for Turney’s CAGW folly?

    -How often is The Princess Elisabeth Research Station, Halley VI Research Station Ice Lab and other Antarctic stations raised on their stilts due to the incessant mounting of snow and ice? Do Climastrologists actually verbally harass the Antarctic engineers as they attempt to raise the snowbound research facilities above the growing ice & snow?

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    Matty

    That 1 MP wonder the British Greens are now proposing a tax to start taking directly from the capital of the wealthiest citizens.
    http://ow.ly/zxCS9

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    Richard111

    I received this link via email…

    http://www.cbn.com/tv/embedplayer.aspx?bcid=1509282970001

    This is very bad news for the EU. Stuff like this is now happening in the UK and our government is s****** its pants.

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      KinkyKeith

      Very interesting.

      This is what political correctness does to countries where the sole aim of politicians is to retire to a top job at UN head office in New York.

      Had a relative leave Belgium about 15 years ago ; there was only so much in the tax kitty that could go to normal business of running the country after taking care of the Compassion Industries wants and needs for a better world for all.

      KK

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    KinkyKeith

    Brilliant comments again from Tony.

    Reality bites!!!!!!!!!!!

    KK

    Am writing from the USA where the PC industry hits you full in the face as you enter the country through airports.

    After leaving the serenity of Japan,aggro of the US hits you at an extra 30 decibels, extremely high levels of tension in airports and total and absolute chaos.

    The reason I comment on this is because it appears that the US airports are run by the federal government and employs people according to affirmative action requirements rather than functional demands of the job.

    Luggage lost, chaos, nobody available to help and people standing around talking to each other while “on the job”.

    For this country to be ”concerned” about high levels of CO2 is just nuts considering the social problems evident at their front door and which continue unchecked.

    ALL of my most unpleasant and threatening and futile airport experiences have been at US airports; some in Hawaii, Dulles and most recently JFK and Ronald Reagan in DC.

    Sorry but the culture shock was just too much and is a comment on Politicians and their failure to lead.

    KK

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    handjive

    The Age of Man

    This impasse is reminiscent of Lord Kelvin’s insistence that the earth is only about 100,000 years old based upon his calculations of the sun’s energy-producing capabilities.
    Geologists thought otherwise, requiring roughly a billion years for nature to sculpt the earth they saw.
    Kelvin didn’t reckon on nuclear energy, and the geologists had the last laugh!

    Hueyatlaco: 250,000 Year Old Settlement In Mexico Found Under Volcanic Ash

    One of its early excavators Virginia Steen-McIntyre writes “Hueyátlaco is a dangerous site.
    To even publicly mention the geological evidence for its great age is to jeopardize one’s professional career.
    Three of us geologists can testify to that.
    It’s very existence is blasphemous because it questions a basic dogma of Darwinism, the ruling philosophy (or religion, if you will) of the western scientific world for the past 150 years.
    That dogma states that, over a long period of time, members of the human family have generally become more and more intelligent.

    The Hueyátlaco site is thus ‘impossible’ because Mid-Pleistocene humans weren’t smart enough to do all that the evidence implies.

    * fwiw, this comment was prompted from this article:

    Global Warming Fascist Movement & Academic Welfare

    http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/05/18/global-warming-fascist-movement-academic-welfare/

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      KinkyKeith

      Interesting item.

      Whether the site is 250,000 years old or not should have little impact on any Darwinian ideas.

      I don’t see any conflict with the fact that intelligent humans existed 250,000 years ago and the basic concept of Darwin’s ideas.

      Since man has been evolving for the past 8 million years in roughly the same form, some of it admittedly apelike, a quarter of a million is not much.

      There is also the issue that large amounts of the human habitat occupied up to the last 20k yrs has been lost to any real scrutiny under 130 metres of ice melt. So much of the evidence of how humans evolved is probably under the oceans and could possibly help bridge the gap back to Mexico.

      KK

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        I read a comment along the lines of the question not being whether there was an Atlantis but how many were there.

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        G’day KK,

        I don’t see any conflict with the fact that intelligent humans existed 250,000 years ago and the basic concept of Darwin’s ideas.

        correct. Darwin would have had no problem with this. He didn’t have much of a handle on dates and nor did anyone else at the time. These dates whether true or not don’t subvert anything to do with the mechanism of evolution proposed by Darwin in general or in particular his comments on humans.

        Since man has been evolving for the past 8 million years in roughly the same form, some of it admittedly apelike, a quarter of a million is not much.

        complete tosh. For a start, we are Ape-like as we are Apes. A quarter of a million can be a very large amount and the time of evolution since we diverged from our closest extant relative says nothing about the most recent 250000 years.

        So much of the evidence of how humans evolved is probably under the oceans

        so true, especially for evidence of long distance human movements and early settlements like that of H.erectus at various times and sapiens. Some of Australia’s most favourable habit that the first arriving humans would have encountered is now under water.

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      handjive

      July 20, 2014

      70,000 YEAR-OLD AFRICAN SETTLEMENT UNEARTHED

      The site known as Affad 23, is currently the only one recorded in the Nile Valley which shows that early Homo sapiens built sizeable permanent structures, and had adapted well to the wetland environment.
      This new evidence points to a much more advanced level of human development and adaptation in Africa during the Middle Palaeolithic.

      http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/07/2014/70000-year-old-african-settlement-unearthed

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      Graeme No.3

      hand jive:

      There is no problem here at all, if the early civilisation adopted green ideas then it would not be a surprise to find it took 250,000 years for the survivors to recover.

      P.S. On the train from Cologne to Berlin I counted approx. 184 wind turbines. Only 22 could be considered working. Another 41 were turning very slowly and would have generated very little. Indeed I wondered if they weren’t being powered by the grid to stop spalling or the shaft becoming distorted. Figures are approx. as rail side earth banks and trees are common, few long vistas as in Oz.

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      and despite excavations of roads and buildings and directed archaeological activity over the last 50 more years not one piece of evidence has been found that supports any human or pre-human presence in the Americas of that age (or for that matter any age other than a few 10s of thousands of years BP).

      Maybe humans only lived at that one place, having helicoptered themselves from Africa, built their city from local materials and then volcanoed upon soon after.

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    Comments, corrections, criticisms would be appreciated on this review paper on “Solar Energy”

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Preprint_Solar_Energy.pdf

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      Matty

      Ollie, Is the World ready for your revelations ?

      Isn’t there a typo btw. in the first line of the italicised text under the un-numbered image in section 4 ?
      Shouldn’t that read rather :- ….

      ” The Creator, Destroyer and Sustainer of atoms, lives and works in the Solar System, …”

      ?

      (Noting the missing comma too).

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    Robber

    An interesting paper on Economics of Climate Change from the Committee for Economic Development of Australia

    Seems to start with the assumption that climate change is real, man-made, and bad. But has some useful ideas about constructive adaptation.

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    scaper...

    I see Australia’s largest coal mining project has been approved. The white noise in the background is watermelons exploding. That Greg Hunt better stop approving these type of projects or he’ll lose his warmist reputation.

    Here.

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      ianl8888

      Now the real objections and obstructive behaviours will start

      Over 5 years ago, we thought that at this point, Greenpeace International will parachute in off ABC choppers to “save the planet”

      1) there will be an increase in malicious fraud behaviour such as Moylan’s, perhaps using schoolchildren as the stalking horses (there has been one episode of this already) to avoid prosecution

      2) the leftoid meeja will beat one side of the drum without cessation. The din will be deafening

      3) Green politicians will ramp up malicious rhetoric against India

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        scaper...

        They can try but in the end…they will lose. Given enough rope and a little bit of tweaking present Qld legislation, Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth and the Wilderness Society will come under the same auspice as the Hells Angels and the ilk.

        Watch that space.

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          ROM

          Well the Indians have certainly started working the Greenpeace thugs plus a lot of other low life NGO thugs and trouble makers over and good luck to the Indians.

          I suspect that they are just the start of a trend, a bit like Abbott and the CO2 tax legislation repeal seems to have started for the big time international financial “carbon” scammers and Spain beginning the downhill “death spiral “ for the renewable energy scammers.

          [ with apologies, well maybe! to Mark Serreze of the National Ice Data Center ; aka NIDC for pinching his copyrighted "Arctic Death Spiral Prediction" of 2007 ]

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    Sparks

    I’ve been feeling bad recently because.. I know it’s effecting me and my work… but how do I stop feeling like this? yea it’s about a woman. Suggestions are welcome, yours sincerely ~heart broking…

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      ROM

      Sparks @ #26

      Do you hope she is coming or she is going?
      Makes a difference I gather but at 76 years old and married for 54 years, along with a lot of other things, I can’t remember the details???.

      Remember it is the woman who makes the choice.
      She just lets the male think that he does.

      And nope! Know quite a few in the financial, grain and livestock broking business but don’t know any in the woman or heart broking business.

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      Andrew McRae

      Difficult to say without more detail, but I’ll assume it’s a rejection scenario.

      Life was worth living before you met her. Life will be worth living when she’s gone.
      For some time in between it is difficult to believe that, but believe it you must.
      If I had to make an analogy on the spot; Retune your satisfaction radio to some of the fainter stations and you’ll find you can hear them again now that the really powerful station has gone off air.

      Of course, my advice might sound like a load of crap. We each have a unique path.

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      Sparks

      Thanks Rom and Andrew..

      I needed some intelligent advice because I haven’t been able to function this past few weeks, It’s a very puzzling situation I’ve found my self in, I do feel much better with this simple act of being able to share my thoughts about it I’m not a robot you know ;) ..

      So here’s the details for what it’s worth I hope you will get a chuckle from it.

      I met this amazing girl some months back, shes bright, intelligent, funny all the good stuff and we’ were getting on very well, too well..
      The trouble began when I met a good friend from years ago who invited me to his place for a few beers to catch up.. that sort of thing, the other thing is, I used to date his sister, which (of course) it turns out that she is now a model and is absolutely stunning and who turned up that evening when she found out that I would be there.

      The whole night went well we had a few laughs and split many beers into the wee hours of the morning.. life went on as usual for a few days until I began getting messages and calls from my friends sister, she asked me meet up and go out with her for a night out, this of course was a mistake on my part but I thought nothing of it because I was head over heals with the amazing girl I met.. So we went out had dinner seen a show and had fun, and I never thought I would ever knock back a stunning model like her, but I did.. I was actually feeling good because I did.. I let her know what was going on and she was fine with it.

      So now the girl who I really like wont talk to me because she says that she has “trust issues” and some other stupid crap like that, and it doesn’t help that she lives 30 miles away from me, I know it won’t look good on me if I pursue a relationship with my friends sister and I have no intentions of hooking up with her.

      I can see the funny side to all this but it has knocked the wind out of me, I’m able to analyze and comprehend all the different scenarios and it does not look good, so for now I’ve been drinking lots of beer and just reading comments on some of these sites I’m familiar with.

      There is a twist to all this tho.. I was told last night that my aunt who has been fighting cancer this past 18 months is now on pain relief, and I wish I didn’t know what this means..

      I’ll be at rock bottom for awhile I think.. at least these beer are going down well.. :)

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        ROM

        In a situation like yours Sparks, the number of women involved should always be squared to measure the trouble levels created.

        So you have two women troubles which equates to a having a trouble level of four times that of having just one woman involved.

        Thank your lucky stars you don’t have three women troubles or your trouble levels would be nine fold.

        Now smile as one half or a slightly over of all of mankind is of the feminine sex who can be and usually are quite discriminatory about their choice of mates.
        But sometimes one of them will make a mistake and choose somebody like my wife did or at least that is what she has regularly implied on many occassions over the last 54 years.

        So Sparks there is still considerable hope for you.

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    Safetyguy66

    At 48 I have realised that time passes pretty quickly in this life.

    20-25 Years sounds like a long time when your building a Windfarm, but that time can come around fast and here we are in what is considered by warmists as the infancy of renewable energy with Australia’s first windfarm reaching the end of its designated service life this week. Even better the original developer has decided not to make the same mistake twice (particularly now they have pocketed their tax payer funded profits), the facility will not be rebuilt.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-27/locals-fear-esperance-wind-farm-will-not-be-replaced/5627136

    When you consider that a Windfarm like Musselroe in Tassy was around 300 million dollars for around 170mw of potential power, about 20% of which may be realised in any given year. Its a staggering amount of money for a pathetic and short lived amount of energy.

    Only the most sincerely deluded eco loon could think that a situation so far outside of the normal market forces for energy production would last as a idea. It cant. In 2008 I predicted that the period between 2010 and 2012 would see the most wind turbines ever constructed in Australia before or since. Id say I can claim victory on that prediction now. The veil of stupidity has lifted and the realisation that gas and coal will indeed be our primary power generation fuels for at least the next 25-50 years is being realised.

    What a shame, so much money was wasted, so many jobs lost and so much idiocy had to be gone through to reach the realisation that 16th century ideas were unlikely to power the 21st century.

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      Safetyguy66,

      thanks for this little snippet of information.

      This Wind Plant at Ten Mile Lagoon has been in operation now for just on 20 years, so, having 20 years worth of power delivery data now, let’s then do a comparison.

      This plant has 9 x 225KW generators on towers for a total Nameplate of just a tiny bit over 2MW. This plant delivered an average of 4.38GWh of power each year, so over those 20 years, there’s a total power delivery of 88GWh.

      Man, that’s huge! (/sarc)

      So, for a comparison,

      Bayswater delivered that same amount of power in, umm, 1 day and 21 hours.

      Now, this Ten Mile Lagoon plant is part of two of those plants, and the other is at nearby Nine Mile Beach, and this plant has been in operation for ten years. This more recent plant has larger power delivery of 9.5GWh per year, so for ten years, that comes in at 95GWh, the same power delivered from Bayswater in 2 days and one hour, so, both these plants have delivered a total power equal to what is being delivered from Bayswater in just under three days.

      The ABC article says that:

      Together they save an estimated 10,000 tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions each year.

      Incidentally, that’s around the same CO2 emissions from Bayswater for those three days.

      However, Bayswater, or for that fact, any CO2 emitting power plant on that same WA grid did not just shut down for those three days while these two wind plants delivered their power for ten and twenty years, so it’s a spurious comparison to say the least. They use that information to equate to an equivalent sized Coal fired plant with as poor a CO2 emission as they can use, but hey, they stopped constructing 2MW coal fired power plants in the 1930′s.

      So here we have twenty years of wind plant operation for less than 2 days of power from a traditional power plant.

      There’s something about that which horrifies me.

      Incidentally, don’t you just love the way the media takes wide shots which show a number of towers along a headland or something, so there’s no real perspective as to their size. Here’s an up close image of one of the tubines at the larger Nine Mile Beach plant, and these are the Enercon E40/600, and these are 600KW generators, so we’re going back ten years in Technology now. When you click on the image, you can click again on the image to make it even larger again. Scroll to the bottom of the image and note the Land Cruiser Troop Carrier near the base of the tower. These towers are 48 Metres tall to the hub.

      The Towers at Musselroe are 105 Metres tall to the hub with blades 45 metres long, so from ground to top of blade is 145 Metres.

      Tony.

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        Minor error alert.

        Where I say here:

        …..so, both these plants have delivered a total power equal to what is being delivered from Bayswater in just under three days.

        That should read just under four days.

        Tony.

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          Safetyguy66

          Tony I love your work.

          Can you imagine how popular I was during my time in the industry?

          When the Feds sent out the media team to “The Bluff” in SA for the filming of the Carbon Tax promo ads, I was formally advised to be “somewhere else” lol. When the Musselroe open day was on, I was required to man a turbine and explain the workings of the farm to the public as they trouped through, it was an exercise in extreme tongue in cheek self control. Fortunately I was upstaged by “one of us” who infiltrated the day and stood around yelling about how pointless widfarms were, so it took some of the pressure off.

          http://youtu.be/N_-x7hpYWXg That’s me at 1:02 pretending to care about renewable energy lol.

          But I always enjoyed being out in the ute, with one on one with senior people from my 2 employers who would make the mistake of asking me what I really thought in private and I would reply with the kinds of off the cuff versions of the calculations you did above and watch their jaws drop.

          My hypothesis is, “Its a joke mate” and I sincerely applaud the way you prove the hypothesis with sound math.

          The market is always right and this case, the market is finally starting to be heard over the vocal but nonetheless stupid minority.

          Cheers

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      Carbon500

      Regarding the Esperance wind turbines: the article states that ‘together they save an estimated 10,000 tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions each year.’
      A laughably small amount given the 3 trillion (3,000,000,000,000) tonnes of CO2 in the atmosphere.
      But, hey, we’re saving the planet – aren’t we?

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    Greg Cavanagh

    I was chatting to my mother yesterday. We both see and understand that the socialsts/greens have taken a large chunk of control, and that many people around the world are calling for a one world government to solve all our problems. I read a lot online, but my mum doesn’t have the fortitude to read the online junk. She asked me if I had a book on the subject. I don’t, but I thought there must be some out there.

    So can anybody recomend a book or three talking about:
    The green socialist movement and how it does more damage than good.
    The one world government and what that is supposed to solve.

    The book James Dinglepole wrote comes to mind. What else could I buy that covers these subjects?

    Thanks in advance.

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    • #
      Andrew Griffiths

      Ian Plimer has been plugging away for years exposing various nutter groups such as creationists and mainstream pseudo scientific climatologists infesting our institutions,all his books are worth a read. Another author is Garth Paltridge who wrote The Great Climate Caper,he is an atmospheric physicist who has written an account of the underhand tactics used by warmists to suppress debate on scientific matters within bodies like the IPCC. You can buy this books on Amazon , I find some of the smaller and possibly larger conventional bookshops seem to practise censorship in not stocking works by climate skeptics on these subjects,Conor Court Publishing in Victoria have an efficient online book selling operation if you want to bypass your local bookshop.

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      Liv

      I’d recommend “Eco-Tyranny” by Brian Sussmann, and “The Global Green Agenda” by Barry Napier.

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    pat

    Hannam gives over most of the article to tax-exempt NGOs who add nothing to the Australian economy, but who are always demanding more welfare for this or that pet project.

    28 July: SMH: Peter Hannam: Giant Galilee coal mine gets Canberra nod
    The federal government has approved a giant Queensland coalmine that it says will generate as much as $300 billion for the economy, but which environmental groups say will contribute to a “carbon bomb” and risk causing significant damage to the Great Barrier Reef.
    Environment Minister Greg Hunt on Monday said that he had approved the Carmichael Coal Mine in the Galilee Basin and its associated rail link to the coast with “the absolute strictest” environmental conditions.
    The 36 conditions, which include offsets of about 30,000 hectares for habitat destroyed, water returns for the Great Artesian Basin and $1 million for further research in protecting threatened species, will ensure the mine owner, India’s Adani, “meets the highest environmental standards”, Mr Hunt said in a media statement…
    Apart from the boost to the local economy to the tune of 3920 jobs for operations and 2475 during construction, the mine will also “provide electricity for up to 100 million people in India”, Mr Hunt said…
    South Korea, for instance, this month slapped a coal tax of about $18 per tonne of coal and will introduce a broad carbon price from 2015. Neighbouring China, easily the world’s largest producer and consumer of coal, has also unveiled plans for a national carbon emissions market and may aim to curb coal consumption within coming years…
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/giant-galilee-coal-mine-gets-canberra-nod-20140728-zxl23.html

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    pat

    what Fairfax wants to write is their business, but taxpayer-funded ABC provides more proof as to why their funding needs to be heavily slashed:

    28 July: ABC: Ben Pearson: Carmichael coal mine’s impacts will be felt for generations
    (Ben Pearson is campaigns director with Greenpeace.)
    TEN MONTHS AGO I described pending decisions about coal developments on the Great Barrier Reef left by the outgoing Labor government as “a dead cat in Greg Hunt’s in-tray”.
    I’ve met Greg Hunt a few times over the years and I reckon he’s a decent bloke who cares about the environment. That’s why I maintained a pilot light of hope that our new Environment Minister would stand up to the coal industry and throw the ‘dead cat’ in the trash…
    If our political leaders won’t govern in the national interest, Greenpeace will ensure Carmichael mine becomes ‘a dead cat’ in the in-tray of anyone involved with it.
    http://www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2014/07/28/4025069.htm

    28 July: ABC: Carmichael Coal and Rail Project: Queensland mine gets Federal Government approval
    By William Rollo and staff
    IESC advice taken into account, Greg Hunt says…
    Minister ‘laid out red carpet for coal company’
    However, Greenpeace spokesman Ben Pearson said in a statement Mr Hunt had ignored expert advice from IESC against the Adani project…
    Greens Senator Larissa Waters said the Federal Government’s approval of the mine to export through the Great Barrier Reef was an environmental and climate disaster…
    “The notion that anyone will want to buy our coal in 60 years is economic lunacy, so this project is economically foolhardy as well as an environmental disaster…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-28/carmichael-coal-mine-project-gets-federal-approval/5628584

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      scaper...

      Greenpeace and their ilk don’t have a chance in stopping this as I’ve indicated up the page. The idiots think they can somehow prevent consumption at the other end are being copulated by the fairies at the end of the garden where the dogs fear to dump!

      Adani and GVK own the whole supply chain to when that lovely CO2 comes out of their coal fired generators in India.

      We know these organisations have met to conspire to constrict our coal exports. Do you believe that the governments and the miners have not done the same to ensure these traitors are thwarted?

      If I was a betting man I know whom I’d be betting on. But then again…it is bad form to bet when one is in the game.

      BRING IT ON, YOU SCUMBAG GREEN READERS OUT THERE!

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      Safetyguy66

      “Ben Pearson: Carmichael coal mine’s impacts will be felt for generations”

      Hes right about that, the people employed in the construction and operation of the mine will be affected for generations by the income and benefits.

      Think of the children Greenpeace. In an economy where thousands of people have been put out of work by a decade of environmental policy aimed at stifling industry, think of the children.

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    pat

    28 July: Guardian: Oliver Milman: Largest coal mine in Australia: federal government gives Carmichael go-ahead
    Adani’s Carmichael coal mine and rail project will dig up and transport about 60m tonnes of coal a year for export, sparking fears for the Great Barrier Reef
    Greenpeace has claimed BLAH BLAH
    Greenpeace has claimed BLAH BLAH
    The Greens senator Larissa Waters said BLAH BLAH
    Gautam Adani, the chairman of Adani, said the project would provide a significant economic boost to Queensland.
    “Adani’s commitment to nation-building in India goes hand in hand with its commitment to providing sustainable employment opportunities for local workers and suppliers, not just through our rail infrastructure, but also our longer-term investments in ports and mining,” he said…
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/28/largest-coal-mine-in-australia-federal-government-gives-carmichael-go-ahead

    Econonomic Times in India unfortunately carries this CAGW-loaded Reuters’ piece. Times of India hasn’t got a piece up as yet:

    28 July: Reuters: Australia approves Adani’s $16 billion Carmichael coal project
    Reporting by Solani Paul, Editing by Stephen Coates
    The Australian government on Monday approved Indian firm Adani Mining Pty Ltd’s controversial A$16.5 billion ($15.5 billion) Carmichael coal and rail project in Queensland, subject to strict conditions to protect groundwater.
    The Carmichael mine, which could become Australia’s largest coal mine at 60 million tonnes a year, has sparked protests from green groups and marine tour operators worried about carbon pollution and export of the coal from a port near the Great Barrier Reef.
    Greenpeace said BLAH BLAH
    http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/07/28/uk-australia-adani-ent-coal-idINKBN0FX03V20140728

    Stephen Coates, who edited the above for Reuters, links to the Guardian piece rather than his own Reuters piece on twitter!

    Twitter: Stephen Coates/Reuters:
    Australia approves massive new coal project http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/28/largest-coal-mine-in-australia-federal-government-gives-carmichael-go-ahead … #qld #climate #reef
    https://twitter.com/SMCoates

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    pat

    MSM in India needs to be aware of the CAGW propaganda they get when they carry Reuters. Here’s Sonali Paul – who wrote the Reuters Galilee piece – reporting from Melbourne in this endless nonsense about a tiny number of people who do not reflect the Australian community at large:

    19 May: Reuters: Swati Pandey: Coal, climate change collide as customers query Aussie banks’ green credentials
    (Additional reporting by Ian Chua in SYDNEY and ***Sonali Paul in MELBOURNE)
    After 35 years of banking with big Australian banks like National Australia Bank, Paula and Peter Samson closed their accounts to protest the lenders’ exposure to the polluting fossil fuel industry.
    The Samsons, who live in Perth and drive an electric car, are part of a hundreds-strong, environmentally-driven movement that is taking hold in Australia after sweeping through the United States over the past year or so.
    Protesters like the Samsons have withdrawn about A$200 million worth of deposits from the “Big Four” banks – NAB, Commonwealth Bank of Australia, Westpac Banking Corp and Australia and New Zealand Banking Corp – since the divestment campaign began last year, according to data from Market Forces, an independent environmental group that tracks the operations and investments of banks and their effects on the environment…
    Australia is home to the world’s biggest coal export terminal and coal is its second-largest source of export revenue, with overseas sales this year expected to be worth some A$40 billion.
    The burning of coal to generate electricity is a major source of heat-trapping greenhouse gases, which environmentalists say triggers droughts and other natural disasters.
    The grassroots campaign against fossil fuels aims to pressure institutions to pull their money out of the industry. In recent months, the drive has gathered momentum globally, targeting banks, pension funds, investors and universities with large endowments…
    A spokesman for third-largest lender ANZ told Reuters that about 25 customers had shut their accounts over the last 12 months in protest at its funding for fossil fuel firms. By comparison, the bank added 110,000 new customers during that period…
    Victoria-based lender Bendigo and Adelaide Bank, as well as regional creditors such as Bank MECU and People’s Choice Credit Union are among the banks that 350.org’s Wood identified as having environmentally sound credentials.
    Bendigo said it does not lend to companies “for whom the core activity is the exploration, mining, manufacture or export of thermal coal or coal seam gas”.
    “We recognise causing harm to our environment also causes harm to the people and communities we serve,” it said in a statement…
    One depositor who has already made the switch is Craig Lamba, a 35-year-old IT consultant from Melbourne.
    Lamba said he was a long-time customer with Commonwealth Bank of Australia but pulled out because of the bank’s lending to fossil fuel companies…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/19/australia-banks-climatechange-idUSL3N0O107J20140519

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      pat:
      If the moment is “hundreds strong” then at 900 lost customers they’ve taken out an average $222,222 each.
      And here we thought they weren’t the average Aussie battlers.

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    Ian George

    Whoops

    BoM has Bourke at -48.9C as lowest temp for today.

    Bourke
    29/06:05am 1.0 -1.2 -1.7 82 0.9 ENE 0 0 0 0 1021.9 0.0 -48.9 08:55pm

    Still shows up at this site (as at 7:30am this morning – 29th Jul)
    http://www.bom.gov.au/nsw/observations/nswall.shtml?ref=hdr#NWS

    BoM should have it fixed soon.

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    Ceetee

    Lets write a book – ” Left Wing Politics for Dummies”.

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    el gordo

    The irony burns.

    ‘A luxury cruise operator in the US has announced it will offer a “once-in-a-lifetime” trip to experience the environmental devastation of the Arctic – using a mode of transport that emits three times more CO2 per passenger per mile than a jumbo jet.

    ‘It will be the first ever leisure cruise through the Northwest Passage, only accessible now because of the melting of polar ice, and is being marketed at those with an interest in witnessing the effects of climate change first-hand.’

    The Independent

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    el gordo

    Medieval global warming appears to have started in Antarctica.

    http://climateaudit.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/ld2_1kyr1.png

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