JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Unthreaded Weekend

There is so much to talk about…

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103 comments to Unthreaded Weekend

  • #

    Thirteen ways the overdramatization of CO2 may end.
    1) So called fossil fuels turn out to be from mostly abiotic origin and natural production has increased beyond our rate of usage.
    2) The solar down turn, long solar cycle and weakening of the earths magnetic field combine to cause massive and significant global cooling.
    3) Construction of windfarms on a massive global scale turn out to cause more serious climate change than they were meant to prevent.
    4) Atmospheric carbon dioxide turns out to either reduce the impact of Carrington style events or help to hold the atmosphere together during a terrestrial(not solar) magnetic reversal.
    5) Antarctica continues to grow at the 1979-2013 rate for another 500 years.
    6) The only very large volcanic eruption for a century changes the flow of the global conveyor permanently.
    7) A back yard inventor finds an easy way to make DIY home energy cheaply from something common like used packaging and posts the simple method on a viral youtube video which results in the collapse of nearly all energy trading.
    8) A large incoming metorite made of near pure CO2 breaks up before impact and has no other effect on earth apart from gently lifting the atmospheric CO2 up to 7000ppm.
    9) Mutation and natural selection bring into existance the Granny Smith planckton with a life span of 200 years.
    10) Jupiter ignites.
    11) Drilling into lake Vostoc brings about a limnic eruption.
    12) Comet C/2013 A1 flicks either Phobos or Deimos toward us.
    13) The long overdue nearby supernova explosion lasts for a month.


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    • #
      Ace

      “1″ above: Th largest known hydro-carbon resereves are on Titan, moon of Saturn. Hard to explain unless they are of abiotic origin.


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    • #
      Geoff Sherrington

      Sliggy,
      Add to your list a large increase of CO2 from a site next to you, via carbonated alcoholic liquids. What a bad imagination. Didyaavagoodweegendmate?


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    • #
      Manfred

      I’d add an all out effort to begin colonising Mars. A compelling outward focus away from regressive navel gazing will reduce the perception of mountainous flea hills. Reaching for the stars. It has to be one of our greatest aspirations and destinies. If the colossal expenditure on CAGW had gone into a Mars effort, I vouch to say we would have done much to progress life on Earth, and probably Mars too, by now.


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      • #

        Maybe a good use for the wind turbines as they are pulled down and recycled. Send the supermagnets all to Mars to help reinforce the weak magnetic field of the planet. Just a tad more magnetism and the place may proceed to grow a better atmosphere.


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      • #
        cohenite

        Excellent comment Manfred. AGW is a product of small, mean minds. The money spent on these petty egos promoting AGW could have set up a permanent Moon base and we could have been on Mars.


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  • #
    MadJak

    Just watching the debate (Probably the only one)

    The Worm hates rudd with a passion. Interestingly, the blue line representing men consistently bags rudd and favours abbott.

    If JuLiar was PM, the press would be repeating the mantra that somehow it was sexism.

    Surely this goes some way to prove that the press was making a wild assumption and believing that correlation somehow equals causation.

    Man it’s good to be right.


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    • #
      warcroft

      You must have been watching 7.
      I was watching 9 and they only had to show Rudds face and the worm skyrocketed. Before Abbott even spoke it was in the negative.


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      • #
        MadJak

        Wow – I guess one channell had to substitute for the ABC.

        Channel 7 basically called it as an abbot victory ~70% to ~30%


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      • #
        Dave

        Warcroft & MadJak,

        I could not understand how two channels could be so different.

        Channel 9: 70% Rudd 30% Abbott
        Channel 7: 30% Rudd 70& Abbott

        Maybe the worm models were done by CSIRO or BOM.

        Even though I disliked Julia Gillard a lot, I think she would have performed better than Kevin Rudd. Has Rudd lost his confidence or maybe it was his anger was high tonight.

        If over the next three years of a government say led by Abbott and the temperature does not increase, and he gets rid of the RET etc – maybe this could be possibility and good news.

        My own feelings – was about 53% Abbott to 47% Rudd. Just my opinion on their ability to answer questions truthfully.


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        • #
          MadJak

          I think one of the channels may have got the numbers around the wrong way. It’s far too weird for the numbers to be the same just the wrong way around.

          The probability is extremely low without some confounding variable at play


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        • #
          warcroft

          The Nine MSN news site is raving about Rudd winning.
          The Ch 9 worm audience, from what I could see, was full of Uni hipsters.


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          • #
            MadJak

            Maybe Getup could only target one channel?


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            • #
              Ross

              For what it is worth. In the NZ news this morning the main comments are around whether Rudd cheated in the debate.(ie. the rules of the debate did not allow notes but apparently Rudd referred to prepared notes a couple of times)


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            • #
              Ross

              Madjack

              I read on Andrew Bolt’s blog that the Rudd supporters are trying to counter the cheating bit by saying and presenting a picture to prove it that Abbott was doing the same.
              Unfortunately the picture is from the last election campaign.
              Talk about digging a bigger hole for themselves.


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        • #
          Geoff Sherrington

          Dave,
          On ABC they asked some questions afterwards for an online poll, showing the number totals as they rolled in. The average was calculated at the end of 11,000 votes, but it was not the average of what rolled past my eyeball.
          I don’t care who won. I’m interested in who is going to lift restrictions on major projects in the pipeline and make workforce participation easier. The country urgently needs a production/export increase.


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        • #
          bobl

          The difference is in the methodology. Nine and Tens worms were based on twitter postings. The problem with that is that generally conservatives aren’t twits. Many conservatives shun twitter and facebook as too damaging of their privacy to be worth using. Hence these media have a definite left lean. IIRC seven’s worm was based on a studio audience of undecided voters.


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    • #
      Yonniestone

      I ended up watching on ABC (by accident) and thought Abbott came out on top, interesting was the Climate Change discussion (or lack of) and how the issue was just introduced as a forgone conclusion or consensus, it will be interesting times if the Coalition win.
      I had trouble hearing the debate as Mrs Yonnie was yelling abusive reply’s at Rudd, my fault for firing her up I suppose but quite enjoyable none the less.


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  • #
    Geoffrey Cousens

    I would like to draw attention to the compulsory acquisition law and how the state labor govt.,in April 2005[when we sold Punt Hill]and subsequent liberal leaders[to my horror]have failed to pay any”fair and just” compensation.Nothing!This road widening plan is in the news again today.
    My grandparents,Walter and Helena Cass, bought the property 494-496 Punt Rd,1a Gordon Gv. in 1921.
    The compulsory acquisition order for punt Rd came in 1954,Vic Roads is now the authority and have,unbelievably,argued … as we inherited the property we are not losing!I agreed to adjourn at VCAT in Sept.2009 and my sister followed misguided legal advise to quit before we had to pay Vic.Roads’s legal fees.An estimated shortfall of $865,000,in 2005,is what I am upset about.
    I believe we were the last to sell,definitely the only ones to never receive compo.[of people who owned prior to the order].The new owner spent 4 years and millions only to sell it with the sales pitch that the compo “is still out there.”No,its not!
    I wrote to Mr. Napthine just last week and await a reply.The law is that compensation should be sufficient to obtain a “similar property in the same area”,well I am 20k N.E.of the city and my sister just about at Monash.Bye now.


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    • #

      Keep writing letters, make all the bureaucrat’s life a misery.

      My uncle had a Christmas Tree farm on the Calder Highway. Then a letter arrived – the Country Roads people wanted a thin slice of land off the front of his property, to widen the highway.

      What they didn’t know is that, before my uncle emigrated to Australia, he was a black market capitalist under Stalin. He could have written a book on how to run rings around bureaucrats.

      He fought tooth and nail for years, made their lives an absolute hell, until they finally paid him $100,000 compensation just to shut him up.

      Then they realised their first slice wasn’t big enough, and came back for another thin slice.

      There’s a fine house on that land now, and a nicely constructed driveway all the way to the house (built by the roads people for free), and cash in the bank, which my cousins inherited when the old guy finally passed away.

      Lets just say I wouldn’t be surprised if the country roads people visit his grave every month, to make sure he’s still underground.


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  • #
    Geoffrey Cousens

    Sorry to the rest of the world[!],I am talking about inner city,Melbourne,Australia.


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  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    Deity, I hate election seasons.

    They are bad enough at home, but being an observer on another countries election seems voyeuristic some how.


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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Avert your eyes it may take another form!

      I think you could find something better to be voyeuristic about, getting toey over an election is the equivalent of having a squeenie over a tax return, but each to their own, you dog you. :)


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    • #
      Joe V.

      Not when you see what’s left of the free world gradually being sold off & enslaved. After North America, Australia is still the last great hope. It’s already too late for Europe.
      Watching from a distance you don’t have to put up with all the razzmatazz, but thanks to the Internet can still remain connected with what’s happening as the outcome matters for all of us.
      A healthy Australia makes the rest of us feel safer.


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    • #
      Mark D.

      being an observer on another countries election seems voyeuristic some how.

      Change one letter and that would make more sense.

      P.S. you could just stop looking…….


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  • #
    Peter Miller

    As a real scientist, I have often wondered what the typical member of the Team or alarmist leader had been smoking or sniffing in order to reach their conclusions.

    Now I find out it was a pill:

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/z9pD_UK6vGU


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  • #
    janama

    Sportsbet now has the Coalition at $1.15 and Labor $5.15!


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  • #

    Oh no!

    Bishop Hill spots an item announcing that the “official” skeptics movement is imploding.

    Clearly that’s the end of skepticism. I just checked and there’s no announcement on SkS as yet as to when they’ll be shutting down. ;-)


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    • #
      AndyG55

      “SkS as yet as to when they’ll be shutting down”

      Its a non-site anyway, very little traffic. Would make very little difference.


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    • #
      MadJak

      HA HA HA

      4 Comments. Must be a record day for their mods!


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    • #

      Funny how the movement is imploding due to the reputations of the skeptics, not the actual lack of science on the skeptical side. There’s no mention that skeptics are actually wrong, only that they are not moral, upright citizens and should not be listened to. I guess science is about how god-like the authors are, not the data. Maybe that’s why Mann said “science is not about proof”? It’s about who can mudsling the best–or wait, maybe that’s politics. I get them confused.


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      • #
        Mark D.

        Sheri, I followed their links till I arrived at PZ Meyers. Then I discounted the whole story. After extracting myself from THAT site (and purging my computer of cookies) I had to take a sheep dip and shower.


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        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          I hope you took the sheep out of the dip first.

          We don’t want to impinge on the reputation of the sheep, now do we?


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        • #

          I had not followed the links that far, but did so now. It is interesting what giving every humans access to an internet audience does. I did not purge cookies and sheep dip and shower. Having dealt with advocates for a long period, my computer has developed a sort of immunity to the BS. I’m hoping it eventually it will achieve full immunity to the ravages of irrational websites. I developed immunity early in life so am not concerned about infection.


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          • #
            Mark D.

            Well Sherri, at least three of us know what sheep dip is.

            Revel in the stink that is Pharangulag if you like but I prefer the clean smell of dipped sheep.

            PS that site is much closer to your home than you might imagine. It (he Meyers) teaches at Morris Minnesota USA. GOD Deity forbid anyone from subjecting their child to that place.

            But then we can move down thread for more……


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            • #

              You mean not every one knows what sheep dip is????

              I actually lived much closer to Morris, Mn when I was in high school (northern Iowa). Thankfully, I made it through high school and college before the crazy people started running the asylum (though I did get in a bit of trouble in 7th grade for refusing to sing “This Land is Your Land” and “Kumbaya”). Today, I would have to be home schooled. :)


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    • #
      Schitzree

      Is this about climate Sceptics? They never mentioned climate and most of the people seem more focused on evolution.


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  • #
    Joe V.

    From the Weather Isn’t Climate Department.

    With Blizzards forecast for the Snowy Mountains.

    http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/1697170/dont-put-the-jumpers-away-yet/?cs=2452

    I see its not just the Northern Hemisphere getting snowier winters.

    South America’s being getting snow where it hasn’t been seen for many years too

    http://m.cdapress.com/columns/cliff_harris/article_9e9a296f-d417-5a71-9af3-64eec8e2264a.html

    How much Not Global Warming does it take not to be CO2′s fault ?


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  • #
    Ross

    We have people like Micheal and Margot coming on here wondering why we question something that should be very easy to understand and accept because all those scientists say it is right. Hell even Al Gore can understand it !!
    /sarc off

    But then we find something like this annd I wonder how they can be so easily sucked in

    http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2013/8/11/nasa-rewrites-the-past.html


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    • #

      It’s due to “adjustments”, the hallmark of climate science. Everything has to be adjusted and always in a direction that supports the theory. ;)


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      • #

        Oh, wait, in the interest of fairness and complete openness, I will note that the melt levels for the Arctic were actually revised downward. It seems that areas where the satellite images indicated melting, the temperature was too low for melting. So it’s not always in the direction of supporting their theories. If betting however, I’d go with it being in a direction that helps their theory.


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  • #
    handjive

    If you thought the failed global warming claim that children wont know what snow looks like was a whopper …

    June 30, 2008:

    “From Robert E. Peary to recent solo explorer Wave Vidmar (pictured), many have travelled to the geographic North Pole to view the icy spot.

    However, photos like this may soon be a keepsake, as the North Pole ice is melting like ice cream in the summer sun, and may be ice-free as soon as this year.

    The prediction comes from the U.S.’s top climate researchers at the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colorado. They predict that in September (2008), there is a good chance that the ice will be gone on the pole.

    While this is obviously a rather sobering event, the scientists aren’t afraid to poke a little fun at the climatological milestone.
    Says the center’s senior research scientist, Mark Serreze, “We kind of have an informal betting pool going around in our center and that betting pool is ‘does the North Pole melt out this summer?’
    .
    Further evidence of a fool and his money is easily parted.
    Seems the climate consensus rebels collected on this bet, but the world lost, because this failed crap alarmist science is directing world policy.
    .
    “Not above a bit of scolding of global warming skeptical, Serreze says, “It’s a situation where we hate to say we told you so, but we told you so.”

    No, no you didn’t, you fraud & failure.


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  • #

    Some of you may be aware of the Stephan Lewandowsky’s article at the Conversation last month, titled “Freedom of speech is not freedom to spin”. There are three points that I had not fully realised before.

    First, his analogies with proper science have a fundamental flaw. The hypothesis that “HIV causes Aids” is a singular hypothesis that is easily falsifiable. The climate hypothesis that Australia or the UK need to pursue policies to save the planet needs a number of sub-hypotheses to hold true, listed below.

    Second, whilst there are millions of people with HIV who have gone onto develop full-blown aids, catastrophic warming has not happened yet. Nor has any successful policy occurred, in terms of reductions of emissions have been achieved at less cost than the alleged cost of doing nothing. So, as a non-scientist, the overwhelming evidence is available to support the proposition that HIV causes AIDS. On climate science, I have to accept the belief of experts that their hypotheses are true, in the absence of strong real world evidence that supports these assertions.

    Third, and leading from the first, is that whereas there can be a leading expert on HIV causes Aids hypothesis, the ability of climate-related policies to make a positive difference to the future requires not only climate scientists, but specialist economists, statisticians, forecasters, public policy-makers backed up by truly independent bean counters to audit policy prior to enactment and monitor policy results. Within climate science there are a lot of sub-specialisms. So when a climate scientist supports the consensus on climate change, they do so as an expert of part of one of a number of multiple hypotheses. The rest is belief in the the opinion of others, without having any supporting evidence.

    So where is the firm ground on catastrophic global warming? The strongest ground is to those who say that it is best to wait and see. As there are multiple un-verified hypotheses required for policy to make a positive difference over doing nothing, any of which if unsubstantiated will make the impact of policy negative. Further, there is no concerted effort to bolster the science or to address the policy shortcomings. An analogy is this. Suppose a patient has symptoms of what might be of a new illness. It might be degenerative, but monitoring reveals no strong support for this. There could be a treatment through a painful operation available. That operation that has never been tried before. The doctors who want to perform this operation have no qualifications in anaesthesia, have never performed any procedure remotely like this before, and refuse to consider the risks. If that patient were you, would you trust the experts, especially when you cannot appreciate any difference in your health?

    Sub-hypothesis to justify climate mitigation policies.
    1) That changes in the levels of greenhouse gases change global average temperatures.
    2) That human emissions of greenhouse gases explain most of the recent average temperature rise.
    3) That unchecked, human emissions will cause much larger rises in temperature in the future.
    4) That these changes will have catastrophic consequences that cannot be adapted to.
    5) That there exists a theoretical set of policies that could mitigate most of that catastrophe.
    6) Existing policy-makers globally have the ability and willingness to optimally implement these policies.
    7) That existing policies by Australia and the UK are in line with theoretical policies.
    8) That these policies enacted by two countries jointly producing less than 5% of total emissions (and declining) will make a one jot of difference anyway.

    [Minor editorial changes made to layout to improve readability -Fly]


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    • #

      Manic: I have asked the question of climate change advocates that you ask about the doctor and would you do as he said. The answer is almost always that yes, they would do what the authority told them to do. This makes perfect sense if you think about it–climate change science is based entirely on the word of “experts” and cannot be understood by the lowly nonscientists out there. It is heresy to question these authorities. This is why logic fails entirely when trying to explain climate change. Many followers will only change their minds if the authorities say things have changed. They will never say the authorities were wrong, only that the authorities must be trusted and if things changed, that just proves it was science all along and new information changed things. If a doctor told one of these people that a 10 mile swim in freezing water would cure their asthma, I truly believe you could find at least a couple of people who would try it. There is little or no thought involved in this–blind faith is all they have.

      Your explanation may help clarify things for those not fully immersed in the following of the authorities. There are those who actively try to research and understand the issue. Those are the ones who can still learn.


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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        I see it as intellectual out-sourcing.

        I am very happy when organisations and individuals outsource the management of a problem they have, to my company.

        And knowing nothing about cars, I am happy to outsource the maintenance of mine, to somebody who I hope knows enough to prevent any problems from occurring, and usually I am more than satisfied.

        But I don’t get my car maintained because I want a well maintained car. I get my car maintained because I want to get from A to B reliably. So I am outsourcing my need for security and well being.

        The same applies to my medical care.

        And that is what civilisation is actually about, when you think about it.

        But if I, or somebody who works for me, stuffs up. Then I have to take it on the chin, and do whatever is necessary to correct the problem. If I didn’t, we would not stay in business very long. Similarly, the guys who service my car, know that I could always take it to somebody else, if they do not do a sufficiently good job.

        My company, and the car maintenance company, are both providing a service that the customers find useful. If they didn’t, they would not come back. You can’t outsource something, unless you have a willing buyer, with an established need.

        Climate Science exists because it provides a service that somebody is willing to pay for. If nobody wanted it, it would not exist.

        So who wants it? What benefits do they derive from having it? And, what mechanisms are involved in the delivery of those benefits?

        Those, are the questions we, and everybody else, should be asking.


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        • #
          Tel

          You can outsource work but you can’t outsource trust. If you really know nothing about cars then you don’t know if your mechanic is doing any maintenance.


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  • #
    Graeme No.3

    A little snippet for Tony and others from No Tricks Zone comments

    DirkH (slightly altered for clarity)

    SPD Politicians celebrate inauguration of first North Sea offshore windpark Riffgat (campaigning for the German election is underway).
 The turbine blades are turning. Diesel generators make sure they do. You can’t let the blades stand still, they would get damaged by the salty air.
 The wind farm consumes 22,000 liters of Diesel a month.
    They don’t produce electricity. They can’t – 15 km of sea cable are still missing. Some WW 2 bombs still have to be removed. The special ships needed for the work are booked for months.
    
http://www.bild.de/geld/wirtschaft/oeko-strom/dieser-windpark-wird-mit-diesel-betrieben-31754746.bild.html

    The Riffgat wind farm is NW of the island of Borkum in the North Sea (above Holland on map). About 50 km offshore from Germany.


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  • #
    handjive

    ABC: Birds of prey under attack from housing developments

    The Australasian Raptor Association says the nesting sites of osprey, white bellied sea eagles and wedge tailed eagles are being lost because of coastal urban sprawl.
    .
    Not ONE mention of the documented threat:

    Wedge-tailed eagle died after flying into wind turbine

    Windfarms in the White-bellied Sea-Eagle zone

    Save the Eagles International -
    Osprey mortality at windfarms


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  • #
    crakar24

    Denialist Dr Roy Spencer has a new website

    http://www.greenhousequestions.org/

    I am about to read the story about Venus, should be good.

    Cheers


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  • #
    farmerbraun

    It makes you want to knock some sense into their stupid heads doesn’t it? It’s fine to reduce your use of fossil energy if you want , and can afford to do that. But leave the bloody climate out of it would you please Ralph!

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/18463013/finale-of-nationwide-climate-change-tour-hits-wgt/


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  • #
    Bob Massey

    It’s worse than we thought the past is getting cooler as evident at http://endisnighnot.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/the-past-is-getting-colder.html
    My, my. What they won’t do to make the present hotter :)


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    pat

    didn’t watch, but obviously this question was utterly ridiculous (politicians don’t control the climate, which has always & will always change)& the inference was that MANMADE GLOBAL WARMING is a fact:

    Tackling climate change
    Mr Abbott is asked how he will tackle climate change… http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/key-moments-as-rudd-and-abbott-go-headtohead-20130811-2rq7e.html

    depressing.


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    pat

    sudden show of MSM concern over low, international “carbon” prices!

    12 Aug: AFR: Marcus Priest: Coalition may buy overseas carbon permits
    Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has claimed the government’s emissions scheme relies on “dodgy” overseas carbon credits and attacked Labor for using the international permits to count towards domestic targets.
    But it is understood that privately, Coalition notables have conceded buying overseas permits is an option to meet Australia’s international com­mitment to reduce emissions if a decision is taken to increase the 2020 target of cutting emissions.
    The Coalition has indicated it is prepared to consider raising the 5 per cent target but not until at least 2015…
    But a number of business people have been led to believe by opposition figures that overseas permits will be used by a Coalition government…
    Under Direct Action, the Coalition has claimed it will purchase abatement from Australian companies from as little as $8.50 per tonne of carbon.
    But even if this is possible, it is still considerably higher than international carbon permits: the European carbon price is around $6.40 and the United Nations “Kyoto” permits are 85¢…
    “It’s no wonder Mr Hunt is looking for alternatives to Tony Abbott’s Direct Action policy because it is an expensive dud which will cost Australian households $1200 each with no chance of meeting our emissions reduction target,” Mr Butler told The Australian Financial Review.
    Baker & McKenzie climate change partner Martijn Wilder said it was questionable whether there would be sufficient domestic abatement under the Coalition’s policy. “The policy is to drive domestic abatement but if there is not enough domestic abatement they will have to buy it overseas,” Mr Wilder said…
    A spokeswoman for Mr Hunt said there would only be domestic abatement under Direct Action and the policy had not changed.
    “The policy is clear,” she said.
    http://www.afr.com/p/australia2-0/coalition_may_buy_overseas_carbon_LCTaiAkZGy32pyTN20L7ZM


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    pat

    12 Aug: ABC: MP fears carbon plan a threat to landowners’ property rights
    The Member for Murray-Wellington, Murray Cowper, says he is fighting for property rights of landowners while opposing a Western Australian Government plan to reduce carbon emissions.
    Under the plan, carbon dioxide from emissions would be captured before they are released into the atmosphere on a number of properties between Yarloop and Collie.
    The Government has moved to legislate the process by including it in the Petroleum and Geothermal Act of 1967 and it is currently before Parliament.
    Mr Cowper says Government agencies will have more access to properties once the legislation has been passed…
    “[If the] bill passes it gives significant powers to the Department of Mines and Petroleum to allow seismic crews like the ones we’ve seen down in Harvey and Waroona to enter upon their property with reckless abandon.”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-12/cowper-fights-for-property-rights-amid-carbon/4880806


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    pat

    12 Aug: ABC: Carbon tax looms large over candidates forum
    The Liberals’ Jaimie Abbott says it was clear many of the residents that attended the forum were concerned about coal dust.
    “I agree that it’s an issue,” she said.
    “If I’m elected as the Federal Member for Newcastle, I’ll be working with (state MP) Tim Owen to address the issue, and I’ll be there to listen to residents’ concerns.”
    “I am a huge supporter of the coal industry because here in the Hunter I know how many jobs are created either directly or indirectly through the coal industry.
    “However I do agree we need to look at alternative energy sources, and I do think there are other ways to reduce emissions other than taxing families who are already doing it tough.
    “We will scrap the carbon tax as a first order of government.”
    Palmer United Party candidate Yegon McLennan says Labor’s carbon and mining taxes must be abolished to ease the cost of living pressures…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-12/carbon-tax-looms-large-over-candidates-forum/4879686


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    pat

    Emerging CO2 markets risk criminal attack- Interpol
    LONDON, Aug 5 (Reuters Point Carbon) – Emerging carbon markets are at risk of exploitation by criminals, international police organisation Interpol said in a guide to help countries avoid a repeat of thefts and fraud that once blighted the EU Emissions Trading Scheme…
    http://www.pointcarbon.com/news/1.2499591

    a week later and this is the ONLY MSM reporting on the above, as far as i can see. shame on the media:

    (2 pages)6 Aug: AllAfrica: Ghana: Carbon Trading At Increased Risk of Criminal Exploitation – Interpol
    The intangible nature of the global carbon trading markets puts them at risk for exploitation by criminal networks, according to a new law enforcement guide produced by INTERPOL.
    The INTERPOL Guide to Carbon Trading Crime examines the areas within the industry which have the potential to be manipulated by criminals, through securities fraud, insider trading, embezzlement, money laundering and cybercrime…
    Carbon trading is the world’s fastest growing commodities market, with its current value estimated by the World Bank at around USD 176 billion.
    Differing from traditional markets in that there are no physical commodities, only “credits” for offsetting the output of carbon dioxide, it is this unquantifiable market combined with the large amounts of money invested and a lack of oversight which make it vulnerable to criminal activity…
    “It is imperative that the carbon trading markets remain secure from fraud, not just to protect financial investment, but also because the global environment depends upon it,” said Andrew Lauterback, Senior Criminal Enforcement Counsel at the US Environmental Protection Agency and Chair of the INTERPOL Environmental Crime Committee…
    An initiative of the INTERPOL Pollution Crime Working Group, the INTERPOL carbon trading guide was produced with contributions from partners including Environment Canada, the Norwegian Agency for Development Cooperation, the Netherlands Government and the US Environmental Protection Agency.
    The Pollution Crime Working Group will hold its 18th meeting during the INTERPOL Environmental Compliance and Enforcement Events in Nairobi, Kenya from 4 to 8 November 2013…
    “Crimes that harm our environment have a wider impact on the health and safety of society as a whole, and therefore must be investigated and the perpetrators punished,” said INTERPOL Secretary General Ronald K. Noble…
    “It is sad to see criminals using fraud and other crimes to make profit out of a commodity that was created to protect the environment. It is not just the financial harm it causes investors, but this criminal activity risks seriously undermining the environmental integrity of the carbon markets globally,” said David Higgins, Manager of INTERPOL’s Environmental Crime Programme…
    http://allafrica.com/stories/201308061374.html


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    pat

    2 Aug: INTERPOL: INTERPOL report warns carbon trading at increased risk of criminal exploitation
    http://www.interpol.int/en/Internet/News-and-media/News-media-releases/2013/PR090

    jo, as the MSM does not want this publicised, how about doing a thread on it:

    (36 pages) June 2013: INTERPOL: INTERPOL Guide to Carbon Trading Crime
    http://www.interpol.int/Media/files/Crime-areas/Environmental-crime/Guide-to-Carbon-Trading-Crime


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    Sunray

    Sorry Jo, but I keep on getting Invalid Registration Status. Thanks, Sunray.


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    Myrrh

    http://junkscience.com/2013/08/11/auusie-prof-lays-out-plan-to-brainwash-kids-on-climate/comment-page-1/#comment-143439

    Junk Science posted this:

    Biochemist Gideon Polya writes in “100 Ideas for Climate Activists”:
    5. Children

    Hundreds of millions of children are already the victims of the worsening climate crisis and it is estimated that 6 billion under-5 year old infants will die avoidably this century due to unaddressed climate change. All children are acutely threatened by man-made climate change. Some ideas for climate action re children:

    5.1 Carefully-designed, ethical, science-informed (e.g. Climate Commission-informed), clear summaries of the climate crisis and solutions should be provided to all primary school children as a booklet, book mark, and refrigerator magnet.

    5.2 Carefully-designed, ethical, science-informed, clear summaries of the climate crisis and solutions should be provided to all secondary school children as a booklet, book mark, and refrigerator magnet.

    5.3 Green apparel as a badge of environmental concern (children can declare themselves for their future; make every day St Patrick’s Day).

    5.4 Carefully-designed, ethical, science-informed, clear summaries of the climate crisis and solutions should be provided to all parents, school teachers, clergy, sports coaches, music teachers and indeed all those involved with children activities.

    5.5 Smart ways of explaining to children that we have just One Planet and that any species extinction is unacceptable.

    5.6 Awards to children (from badges to books) for good works for the Biosphere.

    5.7. Local, state, national and global awards for outstanding environmentalism by children.

    5.8 Children must be ethically encouraged to boycott ecocidal and terracidal products and services.

    5.9 Children should be ethically encouraged to ask what their elders are doing in the War on the Planet. and instructed about the terms intergenerational equity, intergenerational justice, intergenerational inequity and intergenerational injustice.

    5.10 Climate activists must educate and mobilize children who have the time and energy to help save their world.

    5.11 Children and young people in general instructed about intergenerational equity, intergenerational justice, intergenerational inequity and intergenerational injustice.

    5.12 Just as a children were ethically instructed about the consequences of nuclear war in “When the wind blows” by Raymond Briggs (1982), so they should be similarly made aware of the consequences of climate change inaction.

    http://mwcnews.net/focus/analysis/29586-climate-activists.html#sthash.02GQ2GQJ.dpuf

    He mentions Australia.


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      Mark D.

      There is one step left out:

      5.13 Children shall be trained in the ethical elimination of their parents and grandparents.


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      I missed the “ethical” instructions about the consequences of nuclear war–I thought it was a campaign to instill fear and terror in the children, leading them to depression and eventual suicide. Truth (ethical in the past))–Nuclear war is bad and we should do everything to avoid it.
      Climate science is an effort to make children feel helpless and to hate virtually everything in their lives. Which leads to depression and possible suicide. Truth (ethical in the past)–we really don’t understand how climate works but we can adapt to changes because humans are capable and resilient.

      So “ethical” instruction means scaring the living daylights out of innocent children and threatening them with a horrible future if they don’t pitch the iphones and live in cave? Wow, ethics have certainly changed.


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      Greg Cavanagh

      I read through each item on the list thinking to myself, “this will save…. zero children”.

      And I would love to see a 5 year old speak the words “intergenerational equity”.


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      Andrew McRae

      Hundreds of millions of children are already the victims of the worsening climate crisis

      Yes. This is absolutely true. Sitting through the climate crisis indoctrination videos at school must be absolute hell for the little tykes.

      it is estimated that 6 billion under-5 year old infants will die avoidably this century due to unaddressed climate change.

      A trojan number generated by the deluded and less believable than most statements about the future because it neglects adaptability.

      science-informed (e.g. Climate Commission-informed)

      A contradiction in terms.

      clear summaries of the climate crisis and solutions should be provided to all primary school children as a booklet, book mark, and refrigerator magnet.

      Maybe I’m a bit naive about the standards of living in the “developing world”, but when considering which people are “most likely to be affected by global warming”, surely the first response a 5-year old Bangladeshi sea level street urchin would have to this propaganda handout would be: “What’s a refrigerator?”

      And do I need to say it? Running 500,000 refrigerators 24/7 on 90% renewables requires either non-existent storage technology or a non-existent climate.
      Fridge magnets!

      any species extinction is unacceptable.

      You can spot an extremist by how many things they find “unacceptable”.


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        Mark D.

        it is estimated that 6 billion under-5 year old infants will die avoidably this century due to unaddressed climate change.

        This could not be true since if they are under five today (2013) then by 2100 (the end of this century) the majority would have died UNavoidably due simply to natural causes like old age.

        Wait, did he say they would die before they were 5 ?

        Did he say that 4+ year olds were infants ?

        WTF IS he saying? That he can’t form a correct sentence? Or did he pack as much propaganda (painful at that) into a single ill formed sentence?


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        Mark D.

        any species extinction is unacceptable.

        How about the Green species?


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    Joe V.

    OMG. Britain is about to sink beneath the waves of climate refugees.
    The Opposition Labour spokesman on Iimmigration (we know they don’t take immigration seriously) seeks to divert his portfolio to championing scary climate scenarios.


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    FijiDave

    I can barely muster the energy to comment on this.

    So I won’t.

    “As I have said before, it is the height of selfishness for the industrialised countries – the big carbon polluters – to put their economic interests before our survival, Commodore Bainimarama said.

    “To them we say; we didn’t cause this, you did. For heaven’s sake, face up to your responsibilities and do what the scientists say you need to do. Stop talking and start taking appropriate and decisive action.”

    He said Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd had once described climate change as “the greatest moral challenge of our time”.

    “For once, I agree with him about something. So it’s been very disappointing for Pacific islanders to see Kevin Rudd and Australia generally backing away from the tough emission targets that were once envisaged before it became obvious that these came with a political cost.


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      Interesting. Is Commodore Bainimarama saying his people should continue do without electricity, tourism and other industrial amenities (including that gold mining, etc) and live as one with nature to show the rest of us the way? After all, they certainly do not want to contribute to the carbon pollution with people flying in for tourism, fuel expended for mining, etc. How very humanitarian of him.


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    Radio National came up with this absolute gem.

    Thank heavens they don’t open crap like this up for comments, because it’s just too damned easy to prove false.

    Scrapping the carbon tax will lead to electricity price rises: report

    Just two small snippets from this joke of a report:

    Bret Harper, the Director of Research at advisory firm RepuTex which was commissioned by the World Wildlife Fund to write the report, says that without proper investment in renewable energy—made possible by a carbon price—wholesale electricity prices could rise by between five and ten per cent by 2020.

    So, umm, let me see if I have this right. The carbon price (his words) is used to drive up the cost of CO2 emitting power generation, increasing prices ….. and if this is removed, making renewables not as competitive, then electricity prices will rise. So, umm, the introduction of a price on CO2 emissions is meant to drive up the price of electricity, and by somehow removing that price on CO2, prices will not go down, but in fact go up. That’s novel

    Then, the most laughable gem of all is this: (My Bolding)

    Harper pointed to South Australia as an example of renewable energy investment pushing down the price of power. The state currently has more wind power generators in operation than any other territory in the country, with renewable energy accounting for over 20 per cent of their electricity supply. The Australian Energy Regulator (AER) recently reported that wind generation is moderating wholesale electricity prices in South Australia.

    ‘The states with renewable energy benefit from lower energy costs when enough renewables are put onto the system. [In South Australia] we have seen that contributing to a lowering of electricity prices,’ he said.

    Okay then, here’s the AEMO wholesale power costs for Australia, and the AEMO is the Australian regulator.

    AEMO Average Price Tables

    What you see when you open the link is the cost for this current Month, August. Below that are the listings for earlier periods. At the bottom of that box, click on the any of the last 4 Months.

    THE most expensive power in Australia.

    It’s plainly obvious that South Australia has the most expensive wholesale power prices of any State in Australia.


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      Graeme No.3

      Agreed Tony. The answer is obviously the removal of subsidies from wind and solar. If they are cheaper, then they aren’t needed.

      Did you see my comment in No. 14 above?


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