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Worlds Greatest Treasurer and Gillard, achieves ruin, debt, during boom economy!

With Wayne Swan, Treasurer of Australia, being man of the moment this week, it’s the perfect time to revisit a comment left by Jaymez where he compares the nation to a household and adds up just how fast the House of Australia went broke. — Jo

Lesson One: Sending the House of Australia Broke (Quick Method).

A comment by  Jaymez December 15, 2012 at 5:32 pm

Imagine this. In the 2006/7 financial year you were on a salary of $118,500 pa. Your total living expenses, all payments and taxes, and even allowing for some retirement savings was $109,500, so you had a decent buffer. You also owned every asset you had with no debts and in fact you had cash in the bank of about $15,000.

Now imagine that since then, you had pay increases up to the end of last financial year (30 June 2011) totalling 39.2% so that your current income is a very healthy $165,000 pa.

  1. Can you imagine that you would allow your expenses to creep up to $185,500 pa, that¡¯s 69.4% more than your 2006/7 expenditure?
  2. Can you imagine that this higher level of expenditure doesn¡¯t even include putting any money away for your retirement since 2006 so that you are now way behind on funding your retirement?
  3. Can you imagine that in ADDITION to this higher level of expenditure, you have also gone out and borrowed money so that your net worth is now -$123,600 and you have no apparent means of paying that debt back? This means you are just going to have to borrow even more money!

That would be a totally unbelievable scenario right?

Yet that is the equivalent of what Wayne Swan, our Treasurer has done while managing Australia¡¯s finances. While there has been a healthy increase in income, he and the Labor Party have dramatically increased expenditure, and have also borrowed billions of dollars we have no way of paying off for a very long time and without incurring some significant pain. As we are talking about online pokies here, have a look at this website that shows list of online pokies games.

And what do we have to show for it? Some new airports and shipping facilities? Some great new highways or railroads? Maybe we have resolved some major social problems such as Indigenous disadvantage, people smugglers and refugees dying or improved the health and education of the nation? No wait ¨C on all of those measures we have actually declined, as we have with labour productivity and industrial disputation! [That's a bit unfair Jaymez: schools which needed gyms have got libraries, most houses with the speed-installed-pinkbatts didn't burn down, and at least 0.01% of the population is now hooked up to fibreoptic to watch their football in 3D. Talk about national benefit. - Jo]

No doubt the huge debt will only be repaid, and savings to meet the unfunded superannuation payments of retired and retiring public servants will only be made, when the Labor party has been thrown out of office and all the pain will be blamed on the heartless Coalition Government.

But Greece and Italy and Spain and Portugal and Ireland are finding out the hard way that you can¡¯t live beyond your means indefinitely. The longer you put off financial responsibility, the harder and harsher it will be to recover.

Official Budget Outcomes

Howard/Costello 2006/7
Total Government Receipts $237 Billion
Total Government Expenditure $219 Billion
Australian Government Budget 2006-7

Gillard/Swan 2011/12
Total Government Receipts $330 Billion 39.2% greater than 2006/7
Total Government Expenditure $371 Billion 69.4% greater than 2006/7
Australian Government Budget 2011-12

Note: To equate budget figures with salary figures I just turned $Billions into hundreds of thousands and halved it. E.G. $237B became 237,000/2 = $118,500.

——————-

Post Note: Henry Ergas wrote that Gillard’s fiscal credibility lies in tatters. “… since Labor was elected, per capita government expenditure has increased by 3 per cent a year in real terms, more than double the rate at which it grew under John Howard.”

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Worlds Greatest Treasurer and Gillard, achieves ruin, debt, during boom economy!, 9.2 out of 10 based on 79 ratings

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153 comments to Worlds Greatest Treasurer and Gillard, achieves ruin, debt, during boom economy!

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      Jaymez

      Of course when commodity prices were rising our Treasurer Wayne Swan was happy to ignore the fact of rising Government revenues to instead claim it was his brilliant economic management skills which enabled Australia to avoid the worst of the GFC.

      But as his poor economic management unravelled, the debt climbed and Government spending crowded out the private sector and kept wages artificially high, Wayne Swan quickly blamed declining commodity prices (particularly iron ore and coal) for his inability to manage to his budget.

      Your graph Robert, shows very well that his Government benefited from a rise in terms of trade and the decline from the peak still leaves a substantial increase over the terms of trade enjoyed by the previous Government. Labor simply spent too much, and built into ongoing expenditure record high revenues. Thus demonstrating their inadequacy to manage the economy.


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        Quack

        AND i’ve been jobless mostly the past 4 years!!! apart from one time pickin fruit but that was only for about 5 months. The goverment monkeys just do more taxing more talking and not enough doing. they should pick fruit and see how hard it is!!!


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        Cookster

        Government spending crowded out the private sector and kept wages artificially high

        Good comment Jamez. The problem with Economists generally is all demand is good – be it government or non-government. Unfortunately the Economic return on government spending is usually much less than the same spend by the private sector. Swans spendathon meant the Reserve Bank of Australia was forced to raise cash rates higher and longer than necessary.

        Interest rates hurt the Private Sector directly by restricting consumer demand and increasing the costs of business investment in new capital etc. What we end up with is a vicious cycle where to keep the economy percolating along and to prevent a rise in overall unemployment, government spending needs to be continually increased to offset the declining private sector – exactly what seems to be going on with Obama’s USA right now.

        The statistics of total government revenues and spending under the Labor party since 2007 are telling. There’s nowhere for Swan / Gillard / Rudd to hide.


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  • #
    Manfred

    “Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.”
    ― Edmund Burke

    “Consensus: “The process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values, and policies in search of something in which no one believes, but to which no one objects; the process of avoiding the very issues that have to be solved, merely because you cannot get agreement on the way ahead. What great cause would have been fought and won under the banner: ‘I stand for consensus?”
    ― Margaret Thatcher

    “…and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people’s money. It’s quite characteristic of them. They then start to nationalise everything, and people just do not like more and more nationalisation, and they’re now trying to control everything by other means. They’re progressively reducing the choice available to ordinary people.”
    ― Margaret Thatcher


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      Peter Miller

      “They always run out of other people’s money.” That’s 100% guaranteed.

      The question is why are socialist governments always so incompetent. It is not just Australia, it is the same the world over.

      The answer comes in several parts:

      1. Populism – promise the gullible and ignorant things they did not want or need, then make an issue out of it, while simultaneously condemning the opposition for being heartless and greedy.

      2. Union support – in theory, the concept of having unions makes sense, however in practice they all too often end up being controlled by greedy mafiosa types. Economics 101 clearly states “Strong unions = weak economy”, but perhaps most important union leaders know how to screw things up, not build things up. Try and find socialist leaders like Gillard who have ever done anything economically useful and you will struggle.

      3. Croneyism – Socialists everywhere can be relied on to create non-jobs, lots of non-jobs, usually well paid ones for the boys – ‘climate science’, and more importantly its spin offs, are a classic case in point. Bureaucracies and bureaucratic benefits (e.g pensions) will flourish under socialist rule. So, in government, or quasi-government (NGOs etc), departments you get a situation of a lot more people being paid a lot more to produce the same or less.

      4. Policies – For socialist leaders, “Does it work in theory?” is always a much more important question than “Does it work in practice.” Consequently, all too often hard earned tax dollars end up being spent on political whims for no benefit whatsoever.

      Why should anyone voluntarily vote for the socialists? The answer is simple: i) Socialist governments can be relied on to champion welfare dependency and that means there is always a hard core of support for wasteful spending, ii) idealist policies appeal to the young, who have not yet had to face the hard realities of life, but iii) is the most important: the human race has an average IQ of around 100 – and 100 is none too bright, and sub 100s are much more likely to vote socialist than +100s.


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        KinkyKeith

        great summary Peter.

        KK :)


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        Roy Hogue

        Populism – promise the gullible and ignorant things they did not want or need, then make an issue out of it, while simultaneously condemning the opposition for being heartless and greedy.

        Peter,

        Just an observation but what you do is tell them over and over that they’re being held back by the more successful all around them. Tell them they’re being deprived of their “fair share” of the wealth.

        It always works. The cry for “social justice” is living proof that this will hook you the big fish you want every single time. Some patience is the only other required ingredient.


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        PhilR

        Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy.
        It’s inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
        – Winston Churchill


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  • #

    What is significant is that Australia was fortunate to miss the brunt of the credit crunch in 2008. Furthermore, Australia entered the downturn with a structural balance or slight surplus, with national debt falling from 30% to 20% of GDP between 1999 and 2008. By 2011 Australia debt had got back to the levels of 1999 according to World Bank Figures.
    In Britain under Gordon Brown, deficits were incurred during the boom years. When the credit crunch hit the structural deficit was around 4% of GDP. Southern Europe had even bigger deficits prior to the downturn.
    Britain had six or seven years of mismanagement under Labour before the crisis hit. In Australia, the Labor mismanagement is shorter. With growth forecast at 2.5-3% in 2013, your Labor Government should have a projected budget balance. Any projected deficit is therefore structural, with long-term risks to the economy.


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      Rod Stuart

      Another aspect of this is the excuse that the World’s Greatest Economic Misfit makes is the “high dollar”.
      Is the AUD high, or the USD low? Is the AUD losing the race to the bottom?
      How does one become wealthier in terms of a fiat currency by debasing the value of that currency? Unless one is a central banker?
      I suspect the manic beancounter might be familiar with the “Pitchford Thesis”.
      The Pitchford thesis maintains that a current account deficit doesn’t matter SO LONG AS IT IS DRIVEN BY DEBT IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. That is because the private sector, by and large invests in equipment overseas that makes money.For over twenty years, Australia was the proof quoted for the thesis.
      The only thing a “high dollar” affect is the current account deficit, and the wealth of people whose assets are denominated in AUD.
      Then along came Wayne. The goose.


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    Rod Stuart

    One could therefore argue that the entire Gillard cabinet is financially illiterate, incompetent, and stupid.
    However, these folks have set themselves up for a life of early retirement with money to burn. They are looking out for number one.
    The really STOOPID, financially illiterate, brain dead idiots are the people that voted them into power. The uninformed, the great unwashed, that swallowed all that bunkum about “the greatest challenge mankind has ever faced” and got caught up in the herdview of “Kevin 07″. Instead of actually thinking, they were rounded up for slaughter like a gaggle of geese by a brainless nerd made for TV by Bruce Hawker with what they call charisma.
    Canadians of my generation got caught in a similar trap in the late sixties by a charismatic card-carrying communist whose idol was Chairman Mao, called Trudeau.
    Recovery is possible, but it takes a very long time.


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      MadJak

      Rod,

      One could therefore argue that the entire Gillard cabinet is financially illiterate, incompetent, and stupid.

      It’s well beyond being an argument. It’s an immutable undeniable fact.

      They blame the GFC, but never recognise the excellent shape they inherited the economy in. They continue to show a repeated refusal to demonstrate any form of basic logic or reasoning. Just Ideology and powerplays.

      The fact that Mr Swan still talks with pride about being the “Treasurer of the year” despite the fact that the magazine who bestowed that title on him also awarded Lehman Brothers as being the risk manager of the year in 2006, just reinforces the point that they are stupid, ignorant, and devoid of any basic levels of reasoning or logic.

      Anyone who votes for the ALP or any of their satellite parties (Katter, Oakshott, the communists or the man on 150+ fraud charges) based on their record of economic vandalsim would be best advised to use their remaining brain cells instead of abusing them.


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      Rereke Whakaaro

      … these folks have set themselves up for a life of early retirement with money to burn.

      What is needed, I suggest, is a citizens initiated referendum, that seeks to fix the retirement income of Politicians to an amount relative to GDP averaged over the year preceding their retirement.

      Thus, all politicians would have an incentive to keep the economy in surplus, while they are in office.

      That seems fair enough, coming as it does from somebody with a minimal grasp of economics. But would it work?


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      • #
        Olaf Koenders

        Agreed. I’ve always said their pay should be performance based. They should be able to live off their super instead of continuing to leech off the public purse. This includes all the benefits in retirement, such as free air travel etc. All those perks need to go.


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          Mark

          Further to this, I believe that, as the pensions are so obscenely generous in the first place, there should be a time limit to them (say 7 or 10 years). If they have any skills worth anything in the real world let them prove it after that time period.

          I am sick to the back teeth of all these time-serving leeches.


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      • #
        Jaymez

        Not good Rereke, the calculation for GDP includes all Government spending and public servant salaries in the economy. It is a poor measure of how the economy is going. I’d rather we just chopped their pensions or benefits by the percentage overspend on Government income.


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          Rereke Whakaaro

          Thanks Jaymez,

          I have studied at The London School of Economics and Political Science (to give the LSE its full title), but only in the less fashionable Political Science subjects. I couldn’t really tell one end of an “Econ” from another.

          But the basic point I was trying to make was that the politicians pensions should be pegged, in some way, to the economic strength of the country. As a Director, my remuneration is dependent on the state of the Annual balance sheet. Why should that not apply equally to Politicians?


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      • #

        No politician or bureaucrat pension must be indexed for inflation. That alone will ensure inflation runs around a zero average.
        None of these pensions should be other than what is available to the average private sector employee. Make it retrospective.


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        Amfortas

        No. Politicians ought to be paid the average wage, and forbidden to ‘fix’ the bottom as they do. Their pensions should be the same as everyone elses. They should NOT have perks of ex-office for life. Any criminal or corrupt actions on their part should carry a mandatory life sentence and loss of all pension benefits.

        Additionally civil servants should not be paid the average wage but a percentage of it. Very senior ones might be paid slightly higher but NO-ONE paid from the public purse – ie the TAXPAYER should get more pay than the average taxpayer.


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    Jaymez

    More proof of Wayne Swan’s economic ineptitude while he claims the economy is going great guns and corporate Australia are just a bunch of greedy leeches who need to pay more taxes.

    “An analysis of the Australian Securities and Investments Commission’s monthly figures by insolvency firm Taylor Woodings reveals 730 firms appointed, or were forced to appoint, external administrators in December.

    That brings the total number of insolvencies for 2012 to 10,632, up 1.4 per cent on 2011 and 12.7 per cent higher than during the peak of the financial crisis in 2009.

    Taylor Woodings says it was the highest number of insolvencies in data that go back to 1999
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-20/corporate-insolvencies-hit-record-high/4530256


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      spangled drongo

      Ya gotta look on the bright side though Jaymez. Many of those big spenders who were doing fantastically well under Howard but could see that Rudd/Labor = more, more, more, and gave poor John the dirty rag, are now some part of the above.


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    Mark D.

    Chins up my Aussie friends, Obama and the spenders in the House have proven that there is no such thing as “over spending” or damaging deficits. Fret not one bit about inflation or diminished spending power. Trust in your leaders because they know best.

    :? (this is the official sarc symbol isn’t it?)

    [It is, if you say so, Mark] Fly


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      KinkyKeith

      Mark

      The only thing that gets me out of bed some days, is the thought that, although my financial situation has been badly damaged, at least it’s not as bad as for many in the USA.

      On the other hand, there are signs that the many in the US who are possessed of common sense are there working away. Manufacturing is coming back to the US and that is something that you guys do very well.

      This has the contrary effect of making me despondent because nobody in Australia is “working away” at fixing our problems.

      Many small, and large, businesses are being driven to the wall because our currency is too high and we can no longer export at a competitive price.

      What does our “Government” do?

      It just goes off to another presentation or awards ceremony for the World’s Greatest Economy”.

      We are leaderless and Rudderless; not that we want or need him back.

      KK :)


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        Mark D.

        KK, I feel your pain. I’m not as confident in our economy however. We’ll see how bad the extra taxes and costs stack against business (especially small family businesses). I’m very concerned that the whole baby boom generation is going to throw in the towel and retire rather than pay the costs. I have a small business and every month I shudder at the new employment law changes, government licenses, fees, taxes, and restrictions. I am just a little to young to retire but I’m definitely NOT expanding. I’m looking for ways to make a living without employees. (don’t tell them yet please). I have a strong sense that I’m not the only one and this could be another wave of downturn.


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      gbees

      Mark D. – I especially like these explanations of the problem … there are a few I’ve seen.

      http://crasstalk.com/2011/09/us-debt-in-household-budget-terms/


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        Mark D.

        gbees, Yikes!

        Sad truth is that due to Obamanomics, it’s true.


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        Jaymez

        I don’t recall seeing that but I wonder if I did and that was my inspiration. Of course Australia is bad, but the US is a basket case regularly spending upwards of 50% more than they take in Government revenue. Getting out of Afghanistan will save them some money, but when you have over $1 Trillion dollars a year adding to the debt and no plans to reduce it you wonder when someone is going to realise their only option is to do a massive print run, suffer a huge overnight inflationary hit similar to what Argentina went through, and then move on.

        China would hate that because it would massively devalue the trillions they hold in Us currency, and it would more than halve the real value of retirees and baby boomer retirement fund so their kids will have to get off their butts and support them in retirement instead of sponge off them.


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    Mic of Toll

    I heard a rumour recently that Swan is forced to talk in financial terms relative to increases or decreases in G.D.P. because he struggles to count beyond 100, so numbers like Debt = $170,000,000,000 just confuse him.


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    Gbees

    And Gillard and Swan claim a ‘writedown’ in revenue when government revenue has grown every year while in office and has been greater than the Howard/Costello years. They are so financially illiterate that they think their ‘forecasted’ revenue is want they need to spend to. Instead of doing what business does when it’s faced with less revenue, ratchet down expenses commensurately, they continue to wastefully spend. Even more worrying are their plans to spend money they don’t have on the NDIS and Gonski further increasing Australia’s indebtedness. And don’t get me started on the “off the books” NBN.


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    KinkyKeith

    Jaymez’ analogy of the Australian Budget, shown as a household budget, is fantastic.

    It makes the “before and after” thing so easy to see.

    All that money, plus extra money borrowed in our names, GONE, not wasted, somebody has that money, they are laughing fit to kill themselves, at how they ripped us off. The Victorian “Brown Coal” Carbon Tax farce is one such act of money shifting.

    When I think of the deprivation and difficulties that I, my parents and grandparents endured, and contrast it with today’s “Government” where Vote Buying through Social Security Gifting is standard practice I become very very unhappy.

    I feel that my efforts have been wasted and that the sacrifices of all Australians who built the base of this country from the thirties through to the sixties, have been ABUSED by governments since.

    Social security is not only demoralising for those working and paying the taxes that support this Government rort, it is very damaging to those receiving it.

    High levels of drug use, alcohol dependency and gambling are unfortunate features of the Australian Social Security System.

    Governments don’t worry about this because all they want is their VOTE, and they have it.

    If they were expected to work on Government provided work there would be no problem;

    everyone retains their dignity; but the present scheme of handouts is based in the big lie that started in

    the seventies;

    That Australia is a rich country; so rich you wouldn’t believe;

    so working is optional;

    Government oversight of what goes on is “optional”.

    We never were “The Lucky Country” and with huge National Debt we are not rich; so what is the government going to do about the huge army of people who need to be put to work?

    There are untold numbers of community projects that need to be done but the labour is locked up and can’t be used because of Government inaction and artificially created barriers like “Political Correctness”.

    Taxpayers are being abused and we must force our governments to return to a system where ALL GOVERNMENT EXPENDITURE MUST BE ACCOUNTED FOR and where everybody can contribute to Australia and feel proud for having done so.

    KK :)


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    • #

      “Taxpayers are being abused and we must force our governments to return to a system where ALL GOVERNMENT EXPENDITURE MUST BE ACCOUNTED FOR and where everybody can contribute to Australia and feel proud for having done so.”

      *

      I especially agree with this. Too much is hidden away, lost and unaccounted for. We should link Gillard’s pension to her performance. Now she owes us.


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      • #

        Same goes for the rest of them, of course.


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        Dennis

        She is the worst ever PM, and for her It’s Time.


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        KinkyKeith

        Hi A. D.

        One of the easily disguised things comes wrapped up as overseas aid.

        A politician, maybe retired is owed a favour and has interests in a a third world country desperate for “aid”.

        The Australian taxpayers grandly presents the aid and a new tarred road is created which coincidentally just happens to pass the property owned by the retired Aussie pollie.

        Debt payed and so on.

        Of course, I think, this example is totally fictitious and refers to no one living or dead.

        The analogy will remain however as always being relevant.

        KK


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          Graeme No.3

          Why a foreign country? Unless Queensland has succeeded, I can recall 2 cases at the back of the Gold Coast, and the road didn’t pass the property, it swung in the gate and up close to the front door. HINT: one was from SA.

          And the same for a pollie in Vic. with a property in the aptly named Snake Gully.


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            KinkyKeith

            Hi Graeme,

            Quick confirmation of my “imaginary” scheme!

            Actually, now that I think of it, there was a similar case of 100 metres of newly tarred road appearing in front of a local MPs property between Newcastle and Maitland.

            He was a decent sort of bloke though. Many years ago.

            KK :)


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      Ace

      …on top of which postal charges are killing E-bay! :-[

      On top of which, I see the Ozzy govt are actually trying to get the US govt to change the US law so Australia can buy the F22. How the hell can they propose such a lavish extravagance? Its like the queen of France saying “let them eat caviar”.

      NOBODY can afford the F22. Not even the USA (bar a few to save face at air shows).


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      Winston

      Government oversight is merely or more accurately termed “supervised neglect”.


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      Yonniestone

      KK,This current socialist government and others like it worldwide are a classic example of “too much government is not good for the people” also to quote Jefferson “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not” I see great minds think alike! I once had a heated discussion with a leftie over why those willing to work should fund those who are not(themselves included)and they used the old “we should look after the most vulnerable in society” speech, I then pointed out that my neighbor has a son with down syndrome and he goes off to work every day to a paying job paying taxes etc. and this so called “vulnerable” person actually contributes more to society than a lazy leftie like yourself, well after the resulting screaming tantrum I also noted that said son has a far nicer personality and insight than them and while they are not working should look at getting professional help to improve in this area, the response was classic and as a result this is the way I have treated anyone of their ilk.


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        KinkyKeith

        Hi Yonnie

        Interesting comment; you show that the leftie you described is a much a victim of the present system as the rest of us; caught in a spiral of no hope no future.

        The real culprits , I think we both agree, are the Political schemers.

        KK :)


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    Glen Michel

    A long way from the Hawke-Keating days(and Button)when. Labor showed good fiscal sense.
    This current lot deserve to be dumped in seven months time. That being said our debt is quite low compared to other OECD nations – it’s the waste and bad decision making that gets my goat.


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      KinkyKeith

      Glen it’s not waste. Somebody has the money!

      So what would we need to call that?

      KK

      ps.

      Bob Hawke said that nobody needs to work past 55.

      His advice to all and sundry, Australia being a rich country and all that, was to go on the dole until they reached pension age, then they could draw on their super or the pension.

      Selling a fantasy to get votes just requires a bigger fantasy next time.

      Eventually the fantasy is recognised for what it is and collapses.


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        Backslider

        Bob Hawke also said that by 1990 no child would live in poverty. We all know that was unrealistic, however, exactly why did Labor drop the ball on this entirely?


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          KinkyKeith

          Hi BS

          No child …..

          They wont live in poverty in a properly functioning society regardless of income.

          Does that suggest that our society is dysfunctional, because we have children living in poverty?

          I think so.

          A society where the rules are optional is very dysfunctional.

          KK


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      Dennis

      Don’t forget that Hawke/Keating used the Treasurer Howard model, the Campbell Report, for major economic reform but failed to complete the plan, ordered by the faceless union men. Labour NZ went the whole way. And noting that they gave us the worst recession for 60 years circa 1990 because of unchecked excesses in managing the economy.


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      KinkyKeith

      Glen

      Of all the labour mod I always had a feeling that John Button was the real deal.

      KK


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    KinkyKeith

    Manfred’s Margaret Thatcher quotes are are the words of someone who started life with little money and understands that there is no alternative to thrift and adherence to the budget.

    Anything else dooms taxpayers to a modern form of Slavery that creates social upheaval and social collapse.

    Despite the upbeat media picture of modern life, this is roughly where most Western countries are at the moment; facing huge social upheaval and division that is probably as painful for many as previous world wars.

    The idea that “We can get away with this” must be rooted out of the minds of all entering Government in Australia; they are there to look after the common good not feather their own nests.

    Too many people have experienced the truth of the quote:

    “They’re progressively reducing the choice available to ordinary people.”

    KK :)


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      KinkyKeith

      Manfred, I just had a thought:

      “They’re progressively reducing the choice available to ordinary people.”

      Is that why they are called “Progressives”?

      I’m not really up on all these labels.

      KK


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      John Doran

      KK hi.

      I’ve been reading this blog & been amazed at how similar our plight is in the UK.

      Your remarks make sense to me, so I’m going to run my thoughts on why this is happening past you.


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        John Doran

        First a bit of background: 59 yrs (60 July), studied Architecture, but didn’t finish, too keen to get earning, couldn’t face the 7 year study.


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        John Doran

        We’re as broke in the UK, & serious commentators are saying so: http://www.terrysmithblog.com
        Terry is pointing out that the UK & the US are in way over their heads.

        Terry’s colleague Dr Tim Morgan is saying we’re being fed false numbers, especially on inflation, so our govts can disguise how dire things are: http://www.tullettprebonresearch.com/2013/01/21/perfect-storm-report-now-live


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        John Doran

        UK govts have run UK at a deficit for 30 of the last 34 yrs.

        Labour under Blair/Brown inherited a respectable economy from the Tories in 1997.
        By 2010 they had built up debts of £~600 billion, & increased public spending by 50%.

        The UK govt now has the 2nd largest car fleet in the world. 1st: The Chinese army; 3rd the Russian army. You couldn’t make it up. If you pay people to be disabled, they will be:

        http://www.bogpaper.com & go to Nov 2012 “Whats up with the economy?” & Dec 2012 “we’re heading for economic dictatorship”


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        John Doran

        My point is that the whole of the Western world, what used to be known as the Free world is in the same plight.

        Surely this has to have been orchestrated?

        Is it laid out in UN Agenda 21?

        Behind a “Green” cloak of “sustainable development”, is UN Agenda 21 the basis for the Global Warming Scare Scam, to try to persuade us we need a one world govt to deal with a global so called problem?

        http://www.unagenda21fordummies.com


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        John Doran

        Signing UN Agenda 21 at the Rio Earth Summit, George Bush Senior (Republican) proclaimed it “A New World Order”

        Bill Clinton (Democrat) signed it in 1993.

        Neither brought it before Congress, making it unconstitutional.

        This was why Alabama was able to ban UN Agenda 21 in June 2012, 20 years after it was signed they had become fed up with this creeping communism.

        http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/11999-sustainable-freedom-surging-opposition-to-agenda-21-“sustainable-development”

        The fightback has begun.

        We live in interesting times.


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          KinkyKeith

          Hi John

          Half a decade older went through uni as apart time student; worked through the day, uni at night; 7 bloody years.

          That makes me a Metallurgist regardless of later qualifications, little bit of finance and a lot of Psychology, mainly Psycho biology and Neuroscience.

          The brain is a fascinating item and understanding it and climate science was helped by:

          My Metallurgy Studies.

          Metallurgists are arguably the best qualified to assess the CO2 – AGW Scam because of the intersection of course work withe the basic problem.

          We even did modelling and the first thing I tell anybody who will listen is that Global Warming Projection are not models. But I’ve done that one to death.

          What a mess.

          Have been looking at politics and world economics to work out who stole all my money ; some bastard ripped me off.

          So In summary.

          We, the western “Democracies” are living on past dreams when governments were a little more resposnsive and accountable.

          We have no control at the moment.

          I know in the US during the big crash there were ugly things coming out.

          Collusion between big banks and the elites which/who should have been forced to take the pain but instead managed to dump it all on joe average.

          We aren’t happy.

          Other people posting here used to talk about a revolution;

          The end is nigh; Europe is in Green Turmoil over power costs rising because of Renewable subsidies. Bulgaria is up in arms, Spain is shot, Germans are very unhappy and Britain? wow.

          We cannot afford to leave the creeps who did this in power.

          Look at Bruxelles.

          You know better than I about Brussels.

          It epitomizes the whole mess.

          KK :)


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            John Doran

            So it’s going to end in riots & tears as per Greece & Bulgaria?
            Bulgarians Romanians, (inc their Roma gypsies will get free entry to UK & our benefits system 2014)
            They are defo out to bankrupt us. All as per UN Agenda 21:
            Parity of wealth = Enrich the developing world & impoverish the 1st world.
            Abolition of private property.
            Abolition of family.
            Culling of ~80% of world population.
            Don’t suppose you have a BBC program for kids on TV called “Horrible History”

            Head down & make sure you come through this KK.


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          Mark D.

          John Doran,

          Funny, I’m in the US and I come to AU (via the internet) to hear about Alabama first at Jo Nova in June 2012.

          http://joannenova.com.au/2012/06/agenda-21-alabama-may-have-outfoxed-it-why-you-should-care/

          Check it out there was some good comments. The nesting of comments was lost (probably when Joanne had some server problems) but you can still enjoy the thoughts of one Matt b towards the end.


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  • #

    Jaymez sums it up very nicely.

    I also agree that when Labor is gone, they will continue to blame everyone else (especially the Coalition).


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    shirl

    Wayne and his accomplices have emptied the Cash Card Account and are now overspending The Credit card Account with OUR NAME ON IT.WELL?


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    Colin Henderson

    Maybe they believe the CAGW meme and think the world will end before the debt comes back to bite them!


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    • #

      I reckon they just want to spend all the money before the debt comes back to bite them. Then they’ll look innocent, say it wasn’t their fault, and blame the pseudo-scientists who backed them in the first place. Someone’s going to jail, and pseudo-scientists will be first in the dock. Amazing, isn’t it, that politicians don’t just stab politicians in the back.


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    ianl8888

    An aspect that I’ve not seen acknowledged in the meeja:

    Rudd’s GFC-repelling handout, about $800 to anyone earning under about $80kpa

    Some of the $800 was saved in bank accounts or used to draw down private debt, but:

    The overwhelming majority of that was spent on electronics, white goods etc from Asian manufacturers. For example, my wife and I bought a new fridge, made in South Korea

    This massive overspend gave retailers and importers here a small time-limited upbump, but mostly helped Asian manufacturers. I have no issue with that per se, but claiming that it helped Aus out of a huge crisis was outright lying propaganda. Aus is a net borrower, not a lender, so our capital pool was not at risk to begin with


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      Dennis

      They claim they saved Australia from the northern hemisphere financial crisis they called GFC, so why are they still borrowing and spending enormous mounts of money?


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      Rod Stuart

      The statistics disagree with you, and I don[‘t have the time right now to look up them up.
      From memory, the pokies and the liquor stores had a jump in sales immediately after the Rudd bribe that was sufficient to account for some 80% the millions handed out in this fashion.
      Sure, Rudd saved the day by allowing “working families” to drown their sorrows and gamble with someone elses money, just like the pastime Komrad K Rudd relishes himself.


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      • #
        ianl8888

        Fair enough, I hadn’t counted drinking beer and playing pokies as “nation saving” … silly me :)

        Much went overseas for cost-effective consumer items, though


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        Jaymez

        You are right Rod.

        The problem I have with them even saying they saved us from recession is that it is all fairly spurious. A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth. GDP is just the sum of all the expenditure within the economy so if the government throws in a few billion dollars of borrowed money and hire a few thousand more useless public servants in a quarter, then they can pump up GDP figure up.

        But it is meaningless for the real economy if it doesn’t achieve anything worthwhile or longlasting. There is no doubt that much of the Rudd/Swan stimulus was a total waste. It was either sent overseas to backpackers and ex-pat pensioners, spent on pokies, gambling, imported white and brown goods or Bali Hilidays or used to pay down personal debt, as far as the personal cheques were concerned. As far as the school halls and canteens went, they were overpriced, they crowded out and increased the cost of building business premises which would have added something to the economy, and much of the expenditure occurred after the worst of the GFC.


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        • #
          Andrew McRae

          Jaymez, that stimulus gaff goes right back to Keynesian Monetarism versus the Austrian School.

          In 1949, Ludwig The Wise and Magnificent told us so:

          4.XVII.109

          An increase in the quantity of goods produced, other things being unchanged, must bring about an improvement in people’s conditions. Its consequence is a fall in the money prices of the goods the production of which has been increased. But such a fall in money prices does not in the least impair the benefits derived from the additional wealth produced.
          ….
          4.XVII.112
          A retailer or innkeeper can easily fall prey to the illusion that all that is needed to make him and his colleagues more prosperous is more spending on the part of the public. In his eyes the main thing is to impel people to spend more. But it is amazing that this belief could be presented to the world as a new social philosophy. Lord Keynes and his disciples make the lack of the propensity to consume responsible for what they deem unsatisfactory in economic conditions. What is needed, in their eyes, to make men more prosperous is not an increase in production, but an increase in spending. In order to make it possible for people to spend more, an “expansionist” policy is recommended.
          4.XVII.113 This doctrine is as old as it is bad.

          They call Swanny the World’s Greatest Treasurer, but he’s being corrected daily by a dead guy!


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    Glen Michel

    KK. Waste as poorly allocated or applied to situations which arrive at bad outcomes. Defence procurements from the Commonwealth for many years have manifested in wastage for example.This country should be showing more for the amount of revenue that has streamed in over the last 8 years.Missd opportunities.


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    Manfred

    Ensuring elected and non-elected (bureaucrats) have a personal investment in their decisions, that they are not only accountable through a ballot box to the people upon which their decisions are imposed, but that they are held personally to account for the consequences of their decisions.

    They are therefore required to hold a personal indemnity of say, $50M.

    Depending on their track record of consequences, established intellectual capability, emotional well being and relevant experience, their annual insurance cost would naturally vary.

    They might parade a ‘low annual premium’ as evidence for reliability, common sense and helpful outcomes.


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    KinkyKeith

    Totally agree Glen.

    The Australian Submarine shambles, many years ago, comes to mind; as you say WASTE.

    At another level , however, the Submarine shambles was a result of applying the funds to the right electorates, eg Melbourne Ports, so that certain political payoffs could be achieved and the actual performance of the fleet was probably not even secondary, I don’t think it was even a consideration.

    So the attitude was, Unions Happy, Pollies Happy, Everybody Busy, Voters Correctly orientated.

    Nobody was concerned about the final product so it was “good luck to all who sail in them”.

    KK :)


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    [...] Nova: Keep reading  → No doubt the huge debt will only be repaid, and savings to meet the unfunded superannuation [...]


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    It doesn’t matter which country it happens in but whenever a left wing government run a country, they always run it into the ground. It’s happened in the UK after every Labour run government.


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    KinkyKeith

    Besides Jo another who is helping to publicize the problems we all face with the CAGW scam is this bloke:
    Just in case you can make it.

    Lord Christopher Monckton’s Newcastle presentation

    Where: South Newcastle Leagues Club, 46 Llewellyn St, Merewether

    When: Next Tuesday, 26th February, at 7:30 pm (doors open from 6:30 pm)

    Price: $25 per person, at the door.


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    Buffalo Soldier

    I just bought a box of old broken shit…. this is amazing if you have the whole of your life to look at it.


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      Ace

      Man, you need to see MY boxes of broken shit.


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      KinkyKeith

      You could buy some virtual chocolate?


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        Ace

        Or internet ham.

        One box of broken shit I obtained contained a broken Agfa Silette with a second lense and keeper, an Argus, THREE lenses for that and all in macrame leather cases, plus an Agfa Isolette and some other guff. I didnt want the Argus. Its a rare camera outside of the USA where it was common. Its the camera used by Gwyneth Paltrow in Sky Captain and That Shitty Steam Pants Tomorrow. I didnt want it because theres something creepy about it. Like it was designed by a Satanist and every one carries a free curse. The macrame pouches didnt help. But that was alright, cos what I wanted was the Silette. It wasnt broken. I had the hunch it wasnt. Just tightened three screws and voila, shoots pictures no better than the day it was made. Sold the Argus in days and it paid for the rest.

        Epilogue: Many years later I bought a Panasonic L1. Designed to resemble a Leica. Well it does from the front in photos. But its an ugly brick. Im not the only one to compare it to the Argus. too creepy for me. I sold it a week or so later for more than twice what Ipaid for it.

        Now Fuji make a hideous brick X something that costs a fortune and I keep thinking Argus. Maybe theressome kind of fraternity of secret satanists among camera designers. Maybe its THE SAME ONE, never ageing since signing that scroll in blood, going from company to company designing creepy cameras that have the proprtions of sin.

        Now its sad. I malign a camera that was good in its day and many oldsters or younger inheritors will have fond memories of. But this is the wealth of rumination that can be found in a box of broken old shit.

        I wonder what its subsequent owners thought of it.


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          KinkyKeith

          Hi Ace

          Sounds like your earlier comment about ebay had a basis in real life?

          I know someone who buys and sells stamps online?

          For someone who used to make pocket money as kid by selling old rolled up bundles of newspaper to the

          local butcher and collect bottles; well ebay is another planet; but I got lots of crap from a life of

          hoarding things so I will have to become acquainted to online selling.

          KK :)

          Virtual chocolate is probably not like virtual ham: supplies at:

          http://joannenova.com.au/about/donations/


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            Ace

            KK…thats what I thought was funny about my E-bay quip, it sounded ironic but was meant literally.

            E-bay has been brilliant for me. More for buying than selling. More for new items than used. Most of it technology from China. Am I a traitor? Well with a price differential around 500% on many items I dont have the luxury of choice. But in any case, THEY ARE THE SAME ITEMS FROM THE SAME FACTORIES. Sometimes even under the same brand name. Sometimes even exactly the same product, but a fraction of the price. If retailers want to retail they need to re-think their pricing. Some have done it, they have abandoned shops and sell from warehouses. So the imports are the same price froma dealer fifty miles away as from the manufacturer in China. But the local guys employ local people. I guess its about scale and the overheads of a shop-window.

            BUT…there are no-go areas where product piracy is rife and the goods are dodgy. Mostly USB memory. I bought a counterfeit Toshiba one and it was indistinguishable from real. It wasnt real. Never that again.

            As for selling, its amazing what folks buy, empty boxes even (not boxes full of broken shit, but boxes for old shit you cant buy anymore).


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    Dennis

    At 30 June 2012 federal borrowing reached $250 Billion not including the off budget and hidden NBN Company borrowing. By 30 June 2013 fderal debt will be at $300 Billion, all borrowed since 2007 when federal Coalition debt was zero.

    The 2007/08 Budget was in surplus by $22 Billion but since Labor have been on office cumulative budget deficits to 30 June 2012 amount to over $170 Billion and this financial year, after promising a surplus, the government will deliver another deficit of billions of dollars.

    Former Treasurer Peter Costello estimated last year that if the terms of trade are equivalent to the Howard Coalition government years (lower than since Labor came to office) the $250 Billion would take around 40 years to repay with annual interest. But the debt will have increased by another 20% to $300 billion this year.

    We taxpayers owe far more than federal borrowing and NBN borrowing because state/territory and local governments also have debts, over $700 Billion of public debt, a huge burden for this nation of 22 million people.

    Green Union Labor are fiscal fools and economic vandals, always have been. Australians need to consider future national prosperity when seclecting a candidate to vote for, and ignore the political spin and hollow promises like there will never be a carbon tax …….


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    pat

    the hypocrisy of exporting CO2 emissions while pretending to be saving the planet with a CO2 tax/ETS is breath-taking:

    20 Feb: ABC Australia: Australian landscape absorbs one third of carbon from fossil fuels
    The first full national carbon audit found that on average more than 2 billion tonnes of carbon is soaked up by plants, soil and vegetation each year.
    ***It also found that over recent years Australia is exporting up to two and a half times more carbon in fossil fuels than is being burnt here.
    And as global emissions increase, the lead author of the CSIRO report warns that the landscape will struggle to continue as a major carbon sink…
    http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2013/s3694437.htm


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      KinkyKeith

      Hi Pat.

      Aside from the fact that atm CO2 levels are irrelevant to atmospheric temps, one of the other large items

      to be considered are the oceans.

      The worlds oceans maintain an equilibrium with the atmosphere in terms of CO2 and they constitute a ginormous reservoir or our favorite gas.

      KK


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    Dennis

    The government claims 800,000 jobs created by them yet unemployment is rising and under employment rising higher than ever. The jobs are counted to include existing jobs doing new work like BER or pink bats etc., and no mention of the lost jobs, for example in the insulation industry that collapsed because of Labor’s mistakes including bat production.

    In 2007 unemployment was 4% and is now 5.4% and rising, under employment a growing problem too.

    The true deceivers are Green Union Labor and their so called independent puppy dogs


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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Creating jobs is not the same as filling jobs.

      The Government could create 800,000 jobs for experienced Thatchers, or Reed Cutters, or Horse Dentists (all real jobs, by the way), but how many experienced people would, or could step forward to fill those jobs?

      It is easy to wave a magic wand, but if you are out of fairy dust, not much happens.


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    pat

    California governor overestimating CO2 market revenues: watchdog
    SAN FRANCISCO, Feb 20 (Reuters Point Carbon) – California Governor Jerry Brown is overstating the amount of money the state earn from the sale of carbon permits in its cap-and-trade program by tens of millions of dollars, California’s budget watchdog said Tuesday, dealing a possible blow to the state’s plans to invest in clean energy…
    http://www.pointcarbon.com/news/1.2191775?&ref=searchlist

    u have to laugh:

    20 Feb: ABC AM: Polluting power generators profiting from carbon tax compensation
    An analysis of wholesale electricity prices shows brown coal fired power generators are passing on the full cost of the carbon tax. The report’s author says that means billions of dollars in Federal Government compensation will be windfall profit for the companies. The environment group which commissioned the report says the compensation should stop…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-20/polluting-power-generators-profiting-from-carbon/4529250?section=business


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    Rereke Whakaaro

    The environment group which commissioned the report says the compensation should stop…

    Bzzz! Wrong! The Carbon tax should be removed, along with the compensation payments. Much less distortion in the game, if you have a level playing field, folks.


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    • #
      Manfred

      “Should” be removed – definitely – but improbable.
      More likely, a re-badge job involving near meaningless juxtposed generics like ‘climate’, ‘sustainability’, ‘environment’, ‘change’, – or some other equally vacuous polemic.

      How do bureaucracies and politicians walk away from an addiction to the easiest and literally most compelling ‘fix’ in history?

      In spite of appearing daily less plausible, and more idea fixated, they have shown that they simply can’t help themselves. Walking away looks worse than hanging on by bleeding finger nails it seems.


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    • #

      Here’s the ‘con’ in the CO2 Tax compensation.

      Electricity is consumed in three sectors, the Residential sector consumes only 25% of all generated power here in Australia. The Commerce Sector and the Industrial Sector consume the rest (75%)

      Only part of the Residential sector received compensation.

      While the Government says that the ‘derdy polluders’ are paying the Tax, it is passed (in toto) down to all electricity consumers. The generating entity raises the cost of its generated electricity, (the wholesale price) and then the retailers pass that increase down to all consumers in an extra cost per KWH.

      With only part of the Residential sector receiving compensation, that effectively means that (probably) up 80 to 85% of all generated electricity has no compensation attached to it.

      Every entity in every area that consumes electrical power has to recover that increase, and so they pass the cost on to their consumers as well.

      So, removing the CO2 Tax will lower the cost of electricity.

      Removing the Compensation is a relatively small impost, because after all, didn’t the Government say it was to cover the cost of electricity for those who are eligible.

      So, if electricity is cheaper (across the board) then those who currently receive compensation will be back at square one with respect to the cost of their electricity, and now there is no reason for the remaining two Sectors to pass on their increase. and in much the same manner as the Carbon Cops are currently policing the tax, they could be utilised to check that some are not just pocketing that money by not removing the added cost for electricity prices.

      Tony.


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    Manfred

    Looks like there’s life…someone’s finally woken-up…..

    US, other nations quietly maneuvering to rein in sprawling, inefficient UN system

    Frustrated by the epic inefficiency, sprawling disorganization and free-spending of their money by the United Nations, a group of Western donor nations, including the U.S., has been meeting quietly to develop a strategy to rein in the world organization’s more than $20 billion a year in anti-poverty assistance – which even parts of the U.N. concede hasn’t done much to relieve poverty.

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/02/20/us-other-nations-quietly-maneuvering-to-rein-in-sprawling-inefficient-un-system/#ixzz2LUDS5cuq


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      Dennis

      The UN was infiltrated by the left side of politics from the 1950s onwards and they are using it to further their new world order agendas including the creation of treaties crafted to allow left side governments to get around sovereign nation laws if they need to. The plan started late 1800s but stalled due to world wars and the great depression but the end of WW2 and related refugee problems in Europe made formation of the UN necessary but since it has expanded way beyond its original charter and purpose.


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    Manfred

    The really good thing is…

    So far, the would-be reformers are mostly trying to figure out how cost-efficient U.N. programs are, and what management tools the widely differing U.N. organizations can be pressed into adopting.

    The U.N. organizations themselves — including such high-profile entities as the United Nations Development Program, UNICEF, the World Food Program, the World Health Organization and more than 30 others —are NOT invited to the meetings. (my emphasis)

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/02/20/us-other-nations-quietly-maneuvering-to-rein-in-sprawling-inefficient-un-system/#ixzz2LUEi5FQm


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    • #

      This sounds interesting! I hope they pull it off.

      I think the only real solution, though, is to shut the U.N. down entirely. I can’t see it ever coming clean and playing by the rules. Best we can do for it is smother it.


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    inedible hyperbowl

    This is an issue of metrics and reason.

    Metrics and reason do not take part in political discourse, it is all about image and the daily media release.

    The numbers and the obvious deductions are not part of the governments accountancy.

    The sad thing is that this process has infected science. So we have the AGW scam which is all about the “story”, metrics and reason are irrelevant.


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    jorgekafkazar

    The solution to failed Socialism is always “more and bigger Socialism.”


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    handjive

    Musings from the Chiefio has a timely & interesting post and a more interesting list:

    Current Account – Who gets the cash
    Posted on 20 February 2013 by E.M.Smith

    Quote:
    ❝ Now the most startling number, bar none, is that last one. Those numbers are in Billions.

    The USA has had 7.3 Trillion dollars of cumulative current account outflows.
    It covers the entire top 6 and most of Saudi Arabia in #7 position, net inflow countries.
    Totalling 7.498 vs -7.335 for the USA.

    Also of interest is the country list just above the USA. Spain, UK, Australia and then Mexico, Italy, and Greece. Brazil and Turkey stuck in between them and Portugal.

    Kind of makes you go “Hmmmmmm….

    The UK has clearly been liquidating for years, and one wonders what Australia has been spending on, what with all those mineral and grain exports. ❞
    .

    As usual, the Chiefio nails it.


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      KinkyKeith

      handjive

      It’s interesting that the US has reduced the borrowings it has made from China buy the simple ruse of devaluing it’s currency.

      Because they overseas countries have, in the main, reduced their currencies as well we here in Oz are paying back extra.

      Thanks Wayne

      KK :)


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    Yonniestone

    An interesting point on Lord Monckton’s presentations is on 18th Feb I attended the one in Ballarat and I would say there was around thirty people attending compared to almost 300 in 2011,the major difference being in 2011 the Ballarat Courier (Fairfax publication) ran a few articles on the visit and stirred up debate and interest among the population resulting in a heartening support for the AGW skeptic’s side. This time however there was no pre visit articles/information only a biased piece of misinformation the next day, which I was unable to correct in online comments due to heavily biased moderator’s view, This was followed up the next day with an insulting article on senator John Madigan (DLP party) with eaqualy insulting comments allowed online. I predict this year the AGW crowd and supporters will dig the heels in and scream the loudest as they are thrown out the door of reality.


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      KinkyKeith

      Yonnie

      Could also be that the curiosity surrounding CAGW has been dimmed by the rising tide (hope that phrase

      isn’t patented) of opinion but especially the scientific refutation of CAGW.

      True, you might have to go looking for it, but it’s there and is increasingly opopping up in the mainstream media.

      The true Nail in The Coffin of CO2 madness is the current people’s revolt in Europe.

      They are very touchy over things that are green and expensive: Like Electricity.

      It’s a green political nightmare come true.

      KK :)


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        Ace

        KK,(for heavens sake, dont start a Klan) in Britain the phrase “every little helps” WAS in fact patented by a retailer.

        The artist Yves Klein patented a shade of blue (International Klein Blue).

        One of his colleagues sold his own canned stools…but thats OFF topic.


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    Tim

    I’m no economist, but it appears as if spendthrift governments, addicted to borrowing in the US, UK and across Europe are suffering as a result. Why would the World’s Greatest Treasurer want to follow a discredited system?


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    bananabender

    I was shocked to see an actual NBNCo vehicle today. I thought the NBN was just an urban myth.


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      Dennis

      Read the latest Outback magazine, NBN maybe coming to your city address but for the country folk very few will be connected, they will be offered NBN wireless and satellite instead proving that the NBN is a political vehicle for propaganda purposes, an expensive duplication of existing services and a government monopoly since NBN Co purchased Telstra and Optus cable networks for $15 Billion (12 & 3). I am using 4G wireless broadband, very happy with it city and country travels.


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        Backslider

        But of course. Control of communications is a fundamental tenet of the Communist Manifesto. Its got nothing to do with what’s good for you or any other member of the general public.


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    John Campbell

    Read “The End Of Politics” by Douglas Carswell. Big Government is the problem, because Big Government = Big Debt. And Big Debt *has* to be repaid sometime. Hard times are a-comin’. Unless we radically down-size our government. And then keep it down!


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      Graeme No.3

      The economic/political system of the western democratic states is changing, but it will do so slowly due to the inertia in the system. The Welfare State and the resulting enlarged bureaucracies will have to go.
      For 60 years politicians have been spending too much money in the belief that it helps the economy. Keynes gets too much abuse; all he wanted to do was to overcome the Great Depression. He recognized that deficit finance would cause inflation, but hoped that the “treatment” would be brief.
      It is the neo-Keynesians who came up with the idea that you could spend forever. That, and the desire of politicians to be seen as Father Christmas, led to the Welfare State, and the never ending numbers of “disadvantaged” who want money. Constant deficits led to inflation, which helped reduce the debt, except that it led to the belief that there was no problem. Vast hordes of public servants were created to “regulate the spending” (a complete failure), but that led the politicians think that the enlarged State e.g. the UN, the Europe Union etc. would do better. It is a pity that Keynes’s suggestion of paying one group of men to dig holes and another to fill them in, wasn’t adopted. It would have reduced unemployment very quickly, and would have been a lot cheaper in the long run.
      The failure of the UN to stop conflict is fully evident, and now people are realizing that huge bureaucracies like the EU generate huge problems. Unfortunately those bureaucrats still think they can solve those problems, not recognizing (or perhaps not wanting to) that they themselves are the problem. After all they were ‘educated’ at the Universities to believe in the system. They and the politicians will resist any change.
      Nor will those “beneficiaries” of pensions, payouts, GFC fighting give aways etc. be receptive to losing the largesse. It will take a financial disaster to destroy the current system; a disaster which it is racing to bring on ASAP.
      The current “quantitative easing” and efforts from many countries to “competitively devalue” their currencies will lead to runaway inflation, loss of confidence and enormous unemployment. This will be “solved” as in the cases of Greece, Ireland and Spain. Over 50% unemployment among the 17-25 year group in the latter. Sooner or later there will be a revolution.
      It is one thing to see a train wreck unfolding from a safe distance, it is another view when one is on the train. All one can do is cling on as it speeds to disaster, taking what consolation we can from the fact that Swann will be the first casualty.


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    Dennis

    Check out this government’s waste of our money, now being borrowed to waste;

    http://michaelsmithnews.typepad.com/files/labor-waste-booklet.pdf


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    Thon Brocket

    I’m an engineer. I can fix it. It’s a structural problem, a design flaw.

    See, you elect a bunch of legislators, and give ‘em the right to legislate AND tax. Greatest moneymaking scheme ever invented, and you wind up where we are now.

    Fix it this way. Two separately elected legislatures. One to legislate, but can’t tax. Another -separately elected, remember – taxes, but can’t legislate.

    That’s a fundamental re-alignment of politicians’ motives. Nobody gets to climb up on the stump and yell “Elect me and I’ll tax the other guy to featherbed you”. Doesn’t work that way anymore. It’s “Elect me, and I’ll make sure those legislators only get responsible legislation funded” and “Elect me, but I can only legislate as irresponsibly as the Taxers will allow me to.”

    Think about it.


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    trappedintrudopia

    Sounds like you have a similar problem as us here in Canada.
    Here is my modest proposal on how to limit socialists’ kleptocratic tendencies from ruining it all:
    Neutralize the Idiot Vote through….Proportional Representation™!
    Fix the basic flaw in our current version of democracy with these three easy steps;
    1. Suck oxygen = one vote
    2. Suck O2 AND pay property tax = two votes
    3. Suck O2, AND pay property AND income tax = three votes.
    Presto, balance restored between the demand for consumption, and the carrying capacity of production.
    For insurance add a Constitutional amendment that limits all forms of government to confiscate no more than 30% of GDP in total, with a similar size limit on borrowing powers.
    No more “passing of the buck” to the next generation.


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    sophocles

    They were doing what the Chicago School of Economix prescribes.
    Read Michael Hudson on the Financial Sector’s Economic War, and see how many of the points he makes you can tick off the Gillard’s Economic Score Sheet. There may even be some which Hudson hasn’t featured. They can be marked for originality (or stupidity!).
    See:
    The Financial War Against the Economy

    Sovereign nations don’t need to borrow abroad to spend at home. Being sovereign. they can regulate their own money. To trade with external nations, some export earnings are necessary for foreign exchange. To borrow externally for internal spending is reckless. Reckless fiscal policy could (should?) be regarded as treasonous.

    With the correct tax system they can easily maintain prosperity as does Singapore, and Taiwan.


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    John Brookes

    Yeah. Drive us into ruin. And yet we are the envy of the developed world. Imagine how much better off we’d be if those geniuses in the Liberal Party had presided over the GFC.


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      Tristan

      We’re rooned!

      Or at least marooned.

      On our island.

      Of relative prosperity.

      #2 in HDI and IHDI, only behind the evil nordic socialists.


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        KinkyKeith

        From one of those whose discipline and thrift helped create a country in good enough shape to be ruined.

        I condemn your juvenile lack of perspective of human nature.

        I will not accept or entertain your criticism of the integrity of the average Australian citizen or my generation.

        KK

        If JJJ and Their ABC are the peak of our current national identity then we are truly ROONED as you say.


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    • #

      Imagine if the GFC had come after several years of Rudd/Gillard. They used to say of Whitlam that he found Australia a hard country to wreck. Certainly, Calwell and Chifley weren’t even interested in wrecking the joint, so Gough never really had enough wrecking training. But Gillard?

      Remember, Gough was bright, had a service background, and nobody would have objected to him practicing law. His ego, pretensions and prejudices made him unfit to govern. However, with Gillard, you get nothing but a drive for power and an uncanny self-belief. She doesn’t lie, because she believes she is creating reality just by saying something is so. As I’ve said before, the comparison should be with Juan Peron.


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      Andrew

      The DID!

      The GFC occurred on Feb 8th 2007 with the collapse of leading subprime lender New Century. The performance of each economy was set in stone at that point based on
      a) the amount of impaired structured credit in the banking system, and
      b) the state of govt finances

      This was approx 9 months before Rudd’s election so the ALP had nothing to do with our GFC outcomes. You’re right, our GFC performance was the envy of the developed world, and we should thank Howard and Costello every night.

      The GFC ended 2 years later, almost to the day. Approximately 2 months later, Wayne Swan began his GFC response with a $42bn Waste Package. Hockey astutely called for it to be terminated 6 months later, just before the RBA began a cycle of 7 rate increases designed to slow the economy and offset the grossly lax fiscal policy. Every economist now agrees that Hockey was right and the Waste Package should have ended in 2009-10.

      It’s good to know that the Libs have lost none of their economic genius.


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        John Brookes

        Nah. That big spend was very necessary. Conservatives always get this stuff wrong. In the US they made the mistake in 1937 of stopping their stimulus spending too early, and plunging the US back into recession (and that wasn’t even a conservative government). They were saved by the war, and conservatives never have problems with spending money on wars.


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        • #

          Roosevelt accused of understimulating and underspending? Well, he certainly knew how to make a depression Great, and that’s the main thing.

          And then the US was saved by the lucky stimulus of war! The old broken window thingy, which shallow people call a fallacy! Why didn’t we think of that? NZ was just across the Tasman, that South Island looked mighty vulnerable, and we still had a defense budget then.

          Just think, guys. We’ve been through what may have been the biggest mineral resources boom in world history, with our coal driven prosperity we got to share the centre stage with Drill-Baby-Drill Norway…

          Then the dopey Labor wallies took our economy to the pub again. After all that carbon gouged and raffled off and burnt. They Just took it to the bloody pub!


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          Roy Hogue

          What’s wrong with a good war, John? It wakes you up and keeps you alert. It gets your blood pumping properly and puts you back in good physical condition. It’s good for you! And the whole world wants war, so I say give it to them. And as I remember my history, you might be speaking Japanese today if not for a war. You should love them! You should be absolutely excited about the prospect. Look how much (by your own theory) a good war would benefit your economy.

          Funny how debt for a reason you approve of is OK but debt for any other reason is bad. And even funnier how fools have so much influence while wiser men are forced into hiding. But wisdom is justified of all her children.

          And John, if that remark puzzles you, a Google search on the full text will get you a lot of exposition on it (about 11,000,000 hits). Here’s a hint: it was a very sarcastic remark.

          I wonder if you can understand it even if you go looking for its meaning. Your head is probably in the wrong place.


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    Ted 'Brien.

    There are no errors on their part. Our ruin was ever their goal.

    Just as was the Hawke government’s with the promotion of Bond.

    That was Australia’s contribution to the bust of 1987, where they thought they had achieved the destruction of the capitalist system, but were outsmarted because the people on top of the pile could still remember the 1930s.

    Just as a developer buys a building and knocks it down to build a new one, the ALP is determined to destroy our economic system so that they can install their own economic model.

    No matter what the cost.


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