By Jo Nova
Savor the moment. Donald Trump says he wants no wind farms built during his Presidency, and before we can even crack the champagne , the AfD in Germany say if they are elected, they don’t just want to stop people building new wind plants, they want to tear some of the old ones down.
That’s what we like to see, some competition… Who can get to Not Zero the fastest?
Trump Says He Wants No Wind Farms Built During Presidency
By Bloomberg
Bloomberg) — President-elect Donald Trump said Tuesday he would seek to have a policy of having no wind farms constructed during his second term, threatening billions of dollars in planned wind projects.
“We are going to have a policy where no windmills are being built,” Trump said during a lengthy tirade against wind power during a press conference at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida.
Trump, who has vowed a first day executive order targeting wind farms, has long made no secret his disdain for the energy source. But his remarks Tuesday represented the sharpest threat yet from the incoming president.
German Far-Right threatens To Tear Down Wind Turbines
By MarketWire
Far-right German poltical party Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) wants to tear down all wind turbines, according to the party’s candidate for chancellor, Alice Weidel. “Down with all these windmills of shame,” she said at a party congress on Saturday in the eastern German town of Riesa, according to Bloomberg News.
Germany will hold Bundestag elections on Feb. 23, and AfD is in second place in the latest polls with 20-22% of eligible voters.
This was later clarified by the AfD to say they urgently want to shut down the Reinhardswald turbines. This is the wind park in the 1,000 year old forest of legend in Germany — the sacred greenery that only an money-hungry industrial vandal would want to despoil with giant bird killing towers.
Obviously, since wind turbines make reliable generators more expensive and inefficient to run and drive the good ones out of business, clearly, the sooner the better. Do it while you still have a grid.
Do it while you still have an economy….
Posted December 5 on Judith Curry’s blog:
“In October of 2024, the isolated small city of Broken Hill in New South Wales, Australia with a 36 MW load (including the large nearby mines) could not be reliably served by 200 MW of wind, a 53 MW solar array, significant residential solar, and a large 50 MW battery all supplemented by diesel generators.
“Many people falsely believe that wind, solar and batteries have been demonstrated to provide grid support and deliver energy independently in large real word applications. Few people realize that we are a long way away from having wind, solar and batteries support a large power system without significant amounts of conventional spinning generation (nuclear, gas, coal, hydro, geothermal) on-line to support the grid.”
https://judithcurry.com/2024/12/05/wind-and-solar-cant-support-the-grid/
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Yes Don, the critical words in Judith Curry’s takedown is “conventional spinning generation”, that critical factor is better described as “inertia”, the flywheel effect of a several hundred ton armatures ability to overcome radical changes in load. Wind and Solar do not supply inertia and the voltage drops caused by load variation causes drop-out switching to do its job and then you have grid chaos. Broken Hill is a practical example of this effect.
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Muuray,
I hear it, in a small way, the “inertia” effect, in hearing the strain when turning on the pool pump motor 1.2Kw – as it has aged, the strain has become more pronounced, needing to occasionally put a stubby screwdriver in the back of the armature and rotate it both ways to free it, so easier to start
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OldOzzie, #1.1.1,
____Squirts of spray lubricant to both shaft bearings. 👌
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Yes, Don, you MUST have at least 100% of back-up coal, gas or diesel supplied power
wherever you have the ruinable supplies.
And I use this term “supplies” loosely.
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Dick Smith’s latest advertisement – $6.5 trillion for battery storage will be unaffordably expensive
January 14, 2025 – Page 7 of Todays The Australian
Dick Smith’s latest advertisement is for publication in The Australian on Wednesday 15 January 2025.
An Industry Super Australia discussion paper “Modernising electricity sectors” by economist Stephen Anthony and Professor Alex Coram, notes that the South Australian Tesla battery (Hornsdale) has a storage capacity of about one hour, and cost $90 million to build. The report says that we would need 72,000 of these batteries to provide energy backup for one and a half days.
The report states:
“This gives a total cost of $6.5 trillion ($US4.9 trillion). In terms of opportunity costs, this is about ten times that of pumped hydro or about 1,000 nuclear reactors.”
Battery prices are coming down, but even at half the price of the Hornsdale battery, the power will still be unaffordable.
No other country has an energy system based on the experimental CSIRO plan with high levels of intermittent wind, solar and storage. However over 30 countries use nuclear power, with another 60 nuclear reactors being built now. It’s certainly the most reliable, proven and lowest cost way to provide emission free base load power.
Click here to see the full advertisement.
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Meanwhile – Chris Bowen rubbishes Ted O’Brien’s South Korean nuclear fact-finding mission
JACK QUAIL
Energy Minister Chris Bowen has blasted opposition energy spokesman Ted O’Brien’s nuclear fact-finding mission to South Korea, labelling the study tour a “last-ditch” attempt to make the Coalition’s planned tilt towards atomic energy stack-up.
After arriving in South Korea on Sunday, Mr O’Brien is leading a delegation to explore its development of nuclear technology, which the Coalition has signalled could play a role in its plan to build seven taxpayer-funded nuclear reactors.
The study tour, which will include a visit to a nuclear power plant and meeting with manufacturers of nuclear technology, was panned by Mr Bowen, who said his opposition counterpart was better off speaking with local energy experts. “Ted O’Brien is undertaking a last-ditch study tour,” Mr Bowen told The Australian.
“He could have saved on the airfare and stayed home to listen to the Australian experts who’ve consistently said that nuclear [power] will take too long, cost too much and push up household power bills.”
Speaking to this masthead ahead of his departure, Mr O’Brien said South Korea’s energy system, which uses nuclear generated power alongside coal, gas and renewables, was “keeping prices down” at a time when Australia has experienced a sharp rise in retail power prices.
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Comments NOT Kind to Labor Blackout Bowen!
– This blowing in the wind really has the wrong end of the stick. He is obviously floundering in a science he just can’t grasp.
– Bowen has to be kidding ? 22+ nations are forging ahead with nuclear power BUT they are all wrong and he knows better? Spare me please, the hubris is overwhelming and sickening.
– When it comes to rubbish , Bowen is the go-to man for one stop shopping.
– The ad paid for by Dick Smith on page 7 of The Australian today says it all.
Quoting a research paper prepared for Industry Super Australia by economists – the estimated cost of Tesla lithium-ion batteries to provide sufficient back up power for just 1.5 days for South Australia is $ 6.5 Trillion.
That is about the cost of constructing 1,000 nuclear reactors!
Perhaps Bowen should do a bit of fact finding himself
– Just remember Bowen’s own words … ‘if you don’t like our policies, don’t vote for us’
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Spreading the News Further
Good on you Dick Smith, speaking plain common sense.
Tuesday, 14 January 2025
A discussion paper said 72,000 Tesla batteries are needed for 1.5 days of storage costing $6.5 trillion! Even at half price it’s unaffordable. 30+ countries use nuclear with 60 reactors being built. It’s the reliable, proven & low cost way to provide emission free base load power pic.twitter.com/Uss6yg29vu
— Dick Smith (@DickSmithFairGo) January 14, 2025
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And the amount of batteries required far exceeds the total annual output of Tesla’s battery factories by a huge amount.
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– “Just remember Bowen’s own words … ‘if you don’t like our policies, don’t vote for us’ ”
Smartest thing the goose has ever said.
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Wow, Dick Smith is certainly spelling it out. Now divide that amount by the approx. 10 million households in Australia, and it’s $650,000 per household. And you would need all households to repeat paying this sum in the following 10-15 years.
Then folks say, no worries, just use gas for backup. But Bowen’s plan is for 82% renewables, leaving only 18% for coal and gas, so no spare gas for backup then.
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Far-right German political party? So common sense is now a “far-right” policy? Acknowledging reality is “far right”?
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Appears that we are now offered only two flavors …
Far Right and …
Far Wrong.
The Progs are clueless.
Honk Tzu says …. never send in the clowns when the clowns are busy be-clowning themselves.
Besides they’ve already burnt pretty much everything down.
Just wait for the cleanup to commence.
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Just look at Australia’s “leader” Albanese or Biden-Obama or even Newscum in Commiefornia.
Incidentally, that quote is of unknown origin but usually misattributed to Sun Tzu.
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There is a Turkish proverb that says: when a clown enters the palace and deposes the king, the clown does not become king, but the palace becomes a circus.
When the windmills replace reliable power generation the windmills do not become reliable but the power generation becomes a lottery.
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why do people ignore the existence of a far right? I see this all the time. It does actually exist.
I understand the Saul Alinsky style slur of the term’s use, and most people aren’t, but they do exist.
It is nowhere near as big as it was in the US pre ww2, where they filled MSG with a rally, but it is real. Have a look at Twitter, among the young especially, far right policy and belief is rife, including in Australia. And it is growing. As immigration is accelerated, it is feeding the ranks too. As cries against the practice are ignored and ridiculed, young men especially see it as a viable option.
But we seem more comfortable denying it exists at all. P0ssibly the best tactic as it is still rather small overall, but a growing cancer I believe.
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Philip,
How do you know what people *believe*. Many just conform with their group. When young protesters chanting From the river to the sea were asked which river; which sea? they came up blank. If their buddies had been chanting a recipe for cheese souffle, they’d have chanted right along with that too.
In any case, what exactly are these far right beliefs you refer to? Can hardly be a hatred of Jews, since there’s quite a bit of that from people describing themselves as left-thinking.
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What does far right mean? Far right seems to be a term used to denigrate and to deny the application of sensible, practical politics. Having pride in your country is labelled far right. Minimal government and free market seem to get the same treatment.
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Of course it is. That’s the Saul Alinsky method of ridicule and slander.
Let me be more specific. There was a banner drop in Adelaide in the last few days. These lads are not simply patriotic young men calling for a slowdown of immigration, as everyone seems to think as they leap to their defense.
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Philip,
Google didn’t turn up anything recent for me on Adelaide anti-immigration or Adelaide racist, but those were only guesses. Can you provide a link? And maybe a few more links to other things that make you conclude that far-right belief is “rife”.
Without that one might suspect you’re doing the Alinsky thing yourself.
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How about the one outside Vic parliament? Did you see the sign there? Just patriotic good boy lads hey? Fair enough, you win.
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Those Adelaide lads were labelled as Neo Nazis etc by the MSM. Yet, nowhere on their banner was a nazi symbol or anything close. It was an inaccurate slur.
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They are though
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Setting aside that your personal view of someones place on the political spectrum may not actually be correct, its basically the cry wolf syndrome. The left has ramped up the hyperbole and calls anything they dont like “far right” Many are so over it they just put it in the “more of their BS that I dont listen to” bucket.
When something comes along that is an actual extreme position, they trot out their overused script and surprise,surprise peple dont react.
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It’s because they are so far left that anything seems ‘far right’.
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In general, I don’t believe Government should be involved in economic decisions.
However, in Australia the fake conservative Howard banned nuclear power by law and established laws to favour windmills. The non-thinking community thought that waa acceptable or even desirable.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the converse was done and wind and solar plantations were banned for “large” scale power production. Of course, small ones are fine for niche applications like powering remote cell towers or water pumps.
But as I said, the Government shouldn’t be involved in economic decisions. In the absence of subsidies, wind and solar would remove themselves overnight.
Isn’t it sickening how TRUMP is doing the right thing by giving leadership and saying he doesn’t want wind and solar but in Australia our non-leaders are fanatically committed to both?
Dutton wants nuclear power which is fine in principle but it should be installed only if it is the economical solution in any particular circumstances. Obviously it would be silly to build a nuclear reactor on top of a coal mine. Similarly it would be silly to build a coal power station in an outback city and have to ship in coal. Dutton, “leader” of the fake conservative Liberals is still a True Believer in anthropogenic global warming.
In any case, how long do you think it would take to build just one nuclear reactor in Australia, let alone six? It would take decades. Australia wont exist as a viable country by that time due to high wind and solar electricity prices. We will be like Venezuela or pre-Milei Argentina.
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Australia follows, never leads. (Except of course the mad green grid idea we currently pursue, where no other country in the world is so foolishly ambitious).
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So the only area we show leadership in is stupidity. Looking around I cant really see much wrong with that statement.
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David, is there anything to the idea of buying nuclear reactors pre-fabricated in other countries?
Conceptually I quite like the idea of clearing some space near an existing power station, dropping the reactor in and hooking it up to the existing power grid.
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Some of the SMR concepts show the SMR plant arriving on site in standard containers, to be assembled on site.
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David, your assertion that it would be unwise to build a coal-fired Power station in an outback city is a bit off. Have you been to Mt. Isa Queensland? They have run the Mica Creek power station for years importing Coal to run it.
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A very heartening post.
To read that both Trump and Germany have that insight into “Windfarms” is very reassuring
From five years ago:
Kalm Keith
January 1, 2020 at 7:26 pm
Take a look online at a photograph of a
coal fired electricity generating plant.
Estimate how many wind turbines are needed to create the equivalent power, just ignore the need for storage batteries for the moment.
Estimate the land required to locate those turbines.
Compared with the area of the coal fired plant the turbines need much more land.
Coupled with the fact that engineering wise, the turbines are a design nightmare with massive moving vibrating parts, the idea that they are viable is absolutely Nutso.
They’re designed to fail, are expensive to run and so costly to decommission that owners simply abandon them when they inevitably fail.
The process of running wind turbines isn’t called “subsidy farming” for nothing.
But let’s forget about the VLF pulsing for a moment and focus on the real issue; the money.
The only purpose they serve is in virtue signalling to buy votes.
KK
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Very prescient KK. I was still in my climate change sceptic nappies, so to speak, in 2020.
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Opposition can have the unfortunate impact of strengthening resolve of the side opposed…. Below repeated from end of Monday
https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/CR/Issues/2024/12/20/Australia-2024-Article-IV-Consultation-Press-Release-and-Staff-Report-559811
Australia remains vulnerable to geoeconomic fragmentation risks and faces a critical transition to net-zero emissions.
Annex IX. “Future Made in Australia”—Shaping the Design of the Authorities’ Industrial Policy (IP) Strategy and Incorporating Guardrails:
465 industrial policy measures, amounting to subsidies worth 19 billion USD, which have been introduced in Australia since 2023.
“Good design of green industrial policy measures is crucial. The FMiA’s targeted governmental interventions or policies, which seek to reshape the production landscape in Australia to develop specific domestic industries, might mark a significant shift away from Australia’s enduring commitment to market-based principles. If not well designed, such policies could risk the adverse effects of “picking winners,” granting a competitive edge to local producers, and may pose administrative hurdles.”
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Let the Wind Turbine Farewell Party begin!
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If the ‘simulations’ are correct [not] the planet may deal to these spinning prayer wheels of wind worship and their evil twin, subsidy harvesting pine plantations, in a final apocalyptic fiery furnace… so saith the blind leading the blind.
Milking the completely man-and-woman-made LA burnt offering sacrifice, and as GHGs “build up in the atmosphere” [?] wildfire & ecology researcher Dr Nicola Day, senior lecturer at Vic Uni in Wellington – where ‘summer’ has yet to arrive – said “modelling suggests … we will have a climate that’s sort of similar to Australia [and] people should write to their MPs and tell them to cut planet-heating emissions” (RNZ).
‘Sort of similar’ [SOS] is a very sciency emotional vague terminology sure to scare the pants off Dom & Doris Dimwit and their delusional darlings during this Cost of Living Cr!s!s™️. I’ve been waiting for over a quarter of a century and I’m still waiting for this mythical sort of similar Australian ‘climate’ to appear over the horizon… but the incessant Roaring Forties keep blowing it away.
She Blinded Me With Sc!ence.
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The Left and their wind and solar subsidy harvesting Elites are in Meltdown wondering how they’ll survive under TRUMP.
As I have mentioned before, I have an idea for productive employment for them.
They will need to “transition” (to use one of their favourite words for both gender mutilation or expensive unreliable energy) from unproductive to productive work.
I suggest they go to Third World countries like Nepal (where I just was) and pick up the vast amounts of litter that are dumped over the whole country, including in wilderness areas high in the Himalayas.
They will personally do the back-breaking work of picking up rubbish and disposing of it plus teach locals not to litter in cultural change programs.
There they will stay working for minimal or no wages until decent society has deemed they have worked off their debt for the huge harm their promotion of Leftist policies, including wind and solar, has caused to our Civilisation.
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They want net zero, well the CSIRO tell us we’re already at net zero in the SH.
So Aussies WASTING trillions of $ by 2040 or 2050 is obviously just more of their Ponzi scheme BS and fra-d.
Here’s their seasonal variation and all explained in the last sentence of the quote…..
“Seasonal variation”
“Carbon dioxide concentrations show seasonal variations (annual cycles) that vary according to global location and altitude. Several processes contribute to carbon dioxide annual cycles: for example, uptake and release of carbon dioxide by terrestrial plants and the oceans, and the transport of carbon dioxide around the globe from source regions (the Northern Hemisphere is a net source of carbon dioxide, the Southern Hemisphere a net sink)”.
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Here’s the link to Cape Grim CSIRO site and Methane and Nitrous Oxide are also SH net sinks and the NH are the net source.
So no need for Aussies to WASTE TRILLIONs of $ for no measurable change for temp or SLR or Coral islands or the thriving polar bears or extreme weather events or the GBR or…….
https://capegrim.csiro.au/
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The Marxists want Diversity in everything, except energy. Everything has to be electric, with a big switch in Canberra. From there they can turn off your airconditioners, your cooking, your car, your hot water, your security, your heating, your factories and your defences. Everything.
And Canberra used not to have that power because there was no National Grid and people had petrol, diesel, coal, gas. Diverse energy sources. And by the Constitution, State controlled and taxed, not Federal.
So the legislated end of energy sufficiency and diversity is clearly to push total control over Australia and Australians to policitians and mandarins in Canberra with Clean Energy, Clean Energy Finance, Green certificates, endless transmission lines all controlled by Canberra. Supposedly we Australians are saving Australia from the our weather. If anyone actually believes that, I am very surprised.
It is increasingly illegal to replace your gas hot water service, repair or replace your gas stove or bbq, burn wood or briquettes, or drive a petrol/gas/diesel car/truck. Or ship anything. It all has to come from windmills, hydro or solar. The Commissars of the EU are talking of just banning anything but electrical.
Are they trying to save the planet? Of course not. China have 1,000 coal power plants. And are building another nine nuclear. Plus they produce half the world’s steel, by integrated mills, not just melting old steel. But they are communists, so the rules don’t apply.
Net zero is nothing to do with cheap, sufficient, reliable, diverse sources of energy. It’s a net dictatorship.
As in J.R.R. Tolkien’s great allegory of the threat from the East and WW1 and WW2.
One switch to rule them all, one switch to find them, one switch to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
And at the UN, our great enemy is clearly democratic Israel according to Penny Wong. And the Chinese Communists are our friends.
Remember when the CCP seized and banned our coal? Until they realised they needed it and that we had no trouble selling it to others for much more. No, the government talks about lobsters when the real Red lobsters, the avowed communists Albanese and Bandt are in Parliament. The Voice was nothing more than a ruse to give them vastly more power by changing our Constitution.
It’s our country which is under attack today. And diversity is a scam, mandatory except when it comes to power supplies where it is illegal.
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As noted quite a few times, Aus exports very little thermal coal to China as it has many mineable deposits of this. What it does not have is high quality coking coal deposits.
During the Chinese “ban” on Aus coal exports, shipments of coking coal from both the Bowen and Hunter mines were simply transhipped to China via Pakistan ports.
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Yes, that’s known. The distinction between thermal and metallurgical coal too is well known.
But the ban itself is never mentioned, especially when they left shiploads in dock in China to absorb water. We only hear about lobsters and wine which are nothing compared to our biggest exports.
China has plenty of thermal coal. And exports of thermal coal from Indonesia now exceed ours, especially with our bureaucratic reluctance to exporting any coal, leaving the market unoccupied. Brown coal exports from Victoria have been stopped by the Victorian labor government since 2006. And we have State and Federal laws against Nuclear.
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I believe that some of the coal Bluewaters power station in WA uses comes from Indonesia, the rest from Newcastle. And Bluewaters is located next to a coal mine that has been shut down because it’s not economic….
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At least there is a rail line from the coast/port to/from the WA mine/generator site.
🙂
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Not used I believe, coal is road freighted from Bunbury. Have travelled the rail from Collie down to Brunswick Junction and back in a steam locomotive hauling coal one evening. Great fun, though 30 kmh in a steam loco on old narrow gauge track felt like 150 kmh, rocking all over the place. Round trip took eight hours.
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Back in the ’70’s and 80’s when union embuggerance was rampant, it was a wise move to have some gas appliances, even if it was only a gas bbq, that you could at least use to boil water or cook up a fried meal for the kids, and get by on gas lamps, I’ve done it many times.
Electricity is so easy to disconnect, a good storm would black out suburbs back then, so I feel uneasy about the massive push to get everybody on to electric everything because it’s so easy to control.
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Yes, that’s diversity. And extremely useful for survival. Multiple sources of energy. Coal and gas and petrol have been free for Australia for a century. Soon we will be importing our own gas from Singapore at Singapore prices.
Consider in the Urkraine war, both sides target power stations. In a modern world, that’s it to shut down a society completely. Including most defences.
Our governments are waging war on Australians, crippling our power supplies. Why? I don’t accept that anyone believes the Millenium drought will never end and our governments are acting in our best interest. What happened to our $100Million on Hot Rocks? Fake scientist Flim Flannery said ‘the technology is straightforward’.
I noted the absurdity of the SA Government in building their own giant diesel backup for themselves in Elizabeth. That’s how much they believe in solar and wind. There is no way taxation or public service jobs are going to be in trouble. But manufacturers, miners and the public deserve to be shut down. SA and the NT and Canberra and Hobart are conclaves of public self interest and Daniel Andrew’s Victoria.
We need a Javier Milei or Elon Musk to fire half these people. And close absurdities like Clean Energy and Clean Energy Finance which soaked up $18Billion of public money off budget. All these Qangoes are draining the Federal budget and responsible to no one. And Albanese just tossed a lazy few billion to the NBN, all off budget. Plus his private $1Bn investment in QUantum Computing which was never approved by parliament. Whose money is he spending? Not his own. And who vets this spending? No one. Chalmers insists the budget is balanced by just pushing all the big socialist spending off budget into massive debt.
Keep printing money. Soon Australians will have no factories, make nothing and have no income and be able to afford nothing. Job done. Argentina here we come.
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Sadly we still have this:
“More wind means cheaper power which means increased competitiveness”
https://www.offshorewind.biz/2025/01/10/europe-installed-15-gw-of-wind-in-2024-but-needs-more-to-meet-its-2030-targets-windeurope-says/?cdmwt=AQAIBBAU0DCA1AlTsQnSJE5cOjarE6IMvLtBDg
Clowns abound.
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Dutton needs to make a similar promise to stop all planned Federal income guarantees for wind and solar farms. Without the guarantees, there will be no wind farms. Would help to bring forward the end of the RET theft from consumers as well.
Batton should call in the owners of the Latrobe Valley power stations and ask them what price do they need to cover costs if they operate continuously at most economic output. My guess is $50/MWh. Then change the rules in Victoria to give coal dispatch priority. All variable generation to be curtailed, including rooftops, before the coal plants are required to reduce output below their operating cost optimising level. He can take that to the election with actual figures on power cost reductions. Then set about encouraging investment in new coal fired power and nuclear stations to support an AI hub in the Latrobe Valley.
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Like the last US election, Australia’s next election will be our most important ever.
However, tragically, I don’t think Dutton has the cajones or even the understanding of what needs to be done.
He presents “solutions” to Australia’s energy crisis which are slightly less bad than Labor but he needs to 100% return us to the time before Howard introduced wind and solar and set in motion the destruction of coal plant and banned nuclear power.
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You are so right. Unfortunately we have no options as the libertarian/objectivist groups are in decline with One Nation still infighting and losing traction. W e are left with political sludge in the form of the major parties.
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Variable should be the first out, helps stabilise the grid.
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Meanwhile, in Nutty Australia, across the NEM generating system. coal and gas must be curtailed to supply 30% of demand in the middle of the day, yet be ready to ramp up to supply 70% of demand at night. Oh, and those big batteries deliver 3% of demand for about an hour.
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Generators on a stick, now who thought that would be a good idea.
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While the subsidies abound an appropriate name might be “Toffee Apples”?
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Only if aluminum had a melting temp of chocolate!
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Some slightly good news.
Yesterday on Channel 9 “news” Melbournistan (what I call “The Lies”) , I heard a “journalist” acknowledge that aluminium smelters couldn’t run on wind and solar power. I hope they keep their job…
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Ch 9, woke as, that ‘journalist’ is skating on thin ice.
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Here’s a new rating we should apply to windmills, state the % time that they achieve their nameplate capacity, it sure would be a miniscule number, like 2 or 3%.
It would give punters a more accurate idea of their contribution to the grid.
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Better yet, don’t use nameplate. It’s a highly misleading term.
Capacity should be declared as nameplate X capacity factor. Then the amount of continuous power deliverable from a connected battery system should be declared.
A rating would be stated as something like “*** wind plantation has a capacity of 5MW for 12 minutes”.
No battery: power rating = zero, no matter how many bird choppers are installed.
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What’s wrong with classifying on Guaranteed Minimum Power. Which in the case of wind and solar would be zero.
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Windmills never run at full capacity (except accidentally with a sudden gust).
They are designed to change the blade angles (making them less efficient) as the wind speed increases.
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Found the data, but not the graph.
This for offshore windfarms (Danish, North Sea).
Capacity Time
(% of theory) above that level (obviously cumulative)
98% 0.8%
94% 3.2%
85% 8.3%
50% 40.1%
40% 52.8%
and 0% output for 1.9% of time.
Not sure is this link still operates
http://energynumbers.info/capacity-factors-at-danish-offshore-wind-farms
For British (which included the Irish Sea)
more than 94% of (nominal) capacity 3.2% of the time
more than 82% of (nominal) capacity 11.5% of the time
more than 71% of (nominal) capacity 21.1% of the time
more than 50% of (nominal) capacity 40.1% of the time This is roughly the CF figure for that year
more than 30% of (nominal) capacity 64% of the time (It would be lower for the last 2 years)
more than 20% of (nominal) capacity 75.4% of the time
less than 11% of (nominal) capacity 13.9% of the time
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Some wind CF figures:
Germany onshore: 18%. Idel says 20% So does CO2 Lover, commenting here..
Germany offshore: 40.2% From your figure, provided 6 December 2022.
UK onshore: 21-27% (Your figure).. Tonyb said 22%.
UK offshore: 36.2%. Kincardine was 32.9%, well below their expected 45.7%. Tonyb said 32%.
Belgium offshore: 35.1%
Texas onshore: 35% (Idel)
China onshore: 19.5% (Gary Pearse WUWT)
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Thanks G3, that’s interesting.
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Tony and friends have already provided the answer, based on over six years of collecting grid wind data. Slightly under 30% CF.
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They wouldn’t be saying this if it weren’t for the TRUMP Revolution:
Australia needs to “get with the program” (TRUMP’s) or we’re finished.
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“Australia needs to “get with the program” (TRUMP’s) or we’re finished.”
So does Ontario, Canada.
The largest industrial scale wind project has another 10 years before it’s 20 year contract is expired.
I’ve been asking for someone to calculate how much money will be wasted by this project in the next decade.
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Simple! We do not have to pay out the contracts, we just have to change the rules.
1? Make every generator bid how much energy they intend to generate an hour into the future.
2/ Cancel all certificate trading
3/ Cancel payments for curtailing “generation”
4/ Make intermittent players pay for the transmission line construction for their remote sites to the nearest main substation, make them pay proper compensation for ALL land to be used for right of way.
Make it so damn uneconomical for these leaches to operate and force them out of business.
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And why not?
Because that’s exactly what they did to the inexpensive, reliable generators (e.g. coal) with ZERO compensation.
And no business should be based upon a model whereby its very existence is reliant on subsidies and not free market forces.
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The only reason there is any new investment now is because Bowen has signed contracts to guarantee a return on capital for wind solar and batteries. He was forced to do that because the RET theft ends in 2030 and it would be impossible to extend it because it is a direct cost on consumers. If you started an offshore wind farm now, you would not produce any power before the RET expires.
Dutton could easily lower electricity costs by changing the market rules to dispatch the lowest cost first with a set price of around $50/MWh in Victoria and $60/MWh in NSW and QLD. Run the coal plants at their cost minimised output and let the intermittent generators compete with gas for the peaks.
It should be obvious to any reasonable person that coal is the lowest cost source of electricity in Australia like it is in China.
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Remember that Australia’s alternative Government, the fake conservative Liberals are entrenched with the Official Narrative.
Recall when Tony Abbott, a rare non-woke conservative PM of the Liberal Party, wanted an inquiry into data fr@ud at the Bureau of Meterology?
One of his cabinet ministers, former WEF employee Greg Hunt, stopped it.
Then they got rid of Abbott and replaced him with a Labor Party agent in the Liberal Party, Turnbull.
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I don’t know why he didn’t simply overrule the Hunt.
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When windmills are finally decommissioned I am in three minds what to do.
1) Leave them in place with the blades free-wheeling with one word painted on each blade “MONUMENT TO STUPIDITY”.
OR
2) Remove them completely, with removal expenses not already contractually covered such as removal of concrete bases, paid for from the superannuation funds (retirement funds) of politicians who supported them and directors of subsidy harvesting corporations. Then restoration of the land cleared to install them.
OR
3) First (1) for ten years then (2).
Which option do you prefer?
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Option 3.
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…Leave them in place with the blades free-wheeling with one word painted on each blade “MONUMENT TO STUPIDITY”.
History needs to remind us of our folly. We need to keep some of these fallen giants
as decaying monuments to stupidity and pride.’Here lies Ozymandias, colossal wreck, boundless and bare.’
H/T Shelley.
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They have to be removed. They would not be allowed to leave the blades spinning because of the bird kill and increased risk of mechanical failure and fire. Without connection to power, I expect the brakes and feathering are fail safe anyhow. So they would be feathered and locked once power was removed.
We will likely see regular collapses soon because some are nearing the end of their fatigue life.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a42622565/wind-turbines-falling-over/
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The huge concrete bases are never going to be removed, just covered over. Esperance council was offered all the turbine sites on the sand hills as “car parks”. Don’t know if the council took up the offer.
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One location claims that if decommissioned, the concrete top — 1.3 m or about 4 feet — would be removed and the ‘soil’ and native plants would be replaced. We’ll see.
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Remove them entirely at the expense of the owners. And the transmission lines. And making good the environment. These are conditions imposed on the public buyers of state coal power stations. And enforced.
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Time to really wake up and think and here’s why using very simple data.
In Australia toxic, unreliable W capacity factor is about 30% and toxic, unreliable S is about 15%.
IOW this means that W is only available for 3.6 MONTHS and S is only available for 1.8 MONTHS of every year.
This can be calculated in your head and only takes a few seconds. But apparently this is beyond the understanding of some of the best brains on the planet?
So why can’t our clueless loonies not understand this very simple sum over the last 30 years?
And why do they want to destroy both land and sea environments at a cost of trillions of $ FOREVER?
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And why is this scam only being perpetrated on the West.
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>Why… over the last 30 years?
Who controls the media which massage the minds of the majority, manufacturing demand and consent?
Who controls the placement of the pieces on the chessboard, which individuals are blocked, and which individuals are maneuvered into the key positions?
First rule of combat – always attack FROM a position of strength TO a position of weakness.
Neutralise the opponents position BEFORE you attack.
When we are finally without power, then we are powerless, then we are beaten, then we are easily replaced and removed.
You never know what you’ve got ’til it’s gone.
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Tony’s large-scale grid solar CF figure was 16.26%. My home solar is 9% efficient in June-July, rising to 23% in December.
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A recent article in The Australian said that Australia’s electricity use increased by 31% since 2000.
10
BTW that new AI tool agrees that the Eemian interglacial was 8 C warmer than our Holocene and SLs then were 6 to 9 metres higher than 2024.
The AI tool also agrees that the Holocene optimum was warmer then 2024 and back then Boreal forests grew up to the Arctic coastline in northern Russia.
And SLs were higher then and today nth Russia is just tundra and ice.
So why do the barking mad fools believe their stupid BS and fra-d?
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Because it is a religious belief system.
30
But, but….wind and the sun are free!! I know it, because Chris Bowen told me so. My government wouldn’t lie to me , would they?
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Only on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
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God willing, weather permitting
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Due to the really low efficiency of solar cell conversion of sun energy to electrical energy, nothing much is achieved from solar panels. In fact, Australia’s CF of 16% is only marginally better than UK and Europe at 10.5 to 11%.
20
Also, solar cell efficiency goes backwards when temps > 28°C
10
So what does the sudden collapse of NZAM mean to Labors Blackout Chris Bowen?
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2025/01/14/the-great-retreat-a-eulogy-for-the-net-zero-asset-managers-initiative/
More to the point how will Labor respond to Dick Smiths revelations about the humongous and unaffordable cost of batteries
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2025/01/good-on-you-dick-smith-speaking-plain-common-sense.html
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Even though DJT as POTUS #47 has indicated “no windmills in his term” he should order The National Oceanic and Atmospheric (NOAA) to immediately withdraw it latest report on “no evidence” that windmills kill whales as it is blatantly untrue and contravenes The Law!!
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2025/01/14/noaas-no-evidence-that-wind-kills-whales-violates-the-information-quality-act/
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I foresee large increases in the fees for lawyers as companies, the courts, and the government litigate the actions the Trump administration takes. There will be lots of expensive wind generated in the next few years. ࿐ ࿔*:･ﾟ
Stock up on popcorn and your favorite beverage.
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I wonder when the incompetent dills in CSIRO will realise they have been lying to the government about wind and solar being lower cost. I wonder if anyone will be held to account.
I have been evaluating a battery for going off-grid. I have a price for supply and install the battery. more solar panels and an auto start diesel generator. The later is optional because I could be able to manage consumption if there were only two of us in the house. Any visitors could push the battery limit so the generator would be a useful addition.
This system would have a 15 year payback only if the electricity price (energy and connection) inflation maintains an annual rate of 6%pa. That is without any income from alternative investments like term deposits. The income from leaving the capital in a TD will pay the electricity bill at current prices and consumption.
I believe any battery I installed would be lower cost than the government could organise under its present bidding system. Existing and proposed hydro are lower cost than battery but there is an increasing requirement for batteries as the penetration of WDGs increases because there will be no major pumped hydro schemes available.
I am just getting rid of gas for now and will review the battery in August after the dust has settled on the next Federal election. I expect that Australia will be in dire economic circumstances if electricity pricers continue to escalate at 6%pa. Bowen has recognised that and will hit tax payers for the money rather than electricity consumers.
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Net zero? It’s anti science fantasy, a sort of fake accounting that we humans control CO2 levels. We don’t.
Sell the CSIRO, BOM, ABC, SBS, Chief Scientist. They are anachronisms, ideas from more than a century ago, except the SBS which was invented for Al Grassby and pointless now in an internet world.
Buy a concrete house for every aboriginal family in Alice Springs. Miles from any pub as they cannot metabolize deadly alcohol.
Consider that CSL has done very well from privatization as have its shareholders.
Our taxpayer benefit from these corporations is beyond net zero. They are unaccountable. And it is a dead loss of about $5billion a year for what?
And if these corporations are all commercially worthless, useless, pointless and simply paid to support the government story, why are we paying? Where is the innovation,the entertainment, the trustworthy news, the correct weather forecast and the honest, correct and independent advice.
They are all owned by the communist journalists who get appointed as commissioners and their lackeys. Controlling committees is the way every communist government works. And the unqualified committees are the ones demanding net zero and support for YES. And the ones who banned invermectin.
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And it is with such a sense of relief that the Net Zero fake science will not proceed under Trump.
The losing Presidential Candidate Kamala Harris had this incredible advice on the disastrous and deadly fires in LA
“It’s critically important that, to the extent you can find anything that gives you an ability to be patient in this extremely dangerous and unprecedented crisis, that you do,” Harris said.
We are unburdened by Harris. I am still celebrating.
The world has dodged a disaster in stopping the Democrats from stealing another election. The extra 15 million votes vanished. And so Trump even won the popular vote, as he should have done in 2020.
Net zero will be history in a few weeks in the US.
And Penny Wong will find that no one in Washington to listen to her communist cant and hatred for Israel.
Newly intelligent Dr Kevin Rudd will only be able to open one door for Mr Wong, but even he does not know which one.
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‘And Penny Wong will find that no one in Washington to listen to her communist cant and hatred for Israel.
Newly intelligent Dr Kevin Rudd will only be able to open one door for Mr Wong, but even he does not know which one.’
Let’s hope that it’s the one with the tiger behind it!
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Choices, choices,… the Lady and the Tiger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZaX-Dn6Npw&t=42s
00
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The issue of sunk costs is a major hurdle to any commercial decisions. Corporations are always trying to modify planned expenditure rather than shut down projects bite the bullet and admit they are wrong. Labor has been hoping that they are too far along for the Libs to change direction and Dutton has effectively admitted this by suggesting 53% renewables in their nuclear based mix. But the commercial reality is renewables should never have been part of the mix and should be systematically withdrawn from market as they reach their end of life and replaced with coal, gas or nuclear. You cannot run a grid on renewables and they cause reliability issues when they are part of the mix. Bite the bullet ,start anew , forget net zero and you might have cheap reliable energy in 15 years , otherwise things will pretty quickly get far worse and even harder to fix.
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As wind-turbines head for the museum,
Where alarmists can worship and see ’em,
Useless artefacts of the past,
Being dismantled at last,
While the realists sing a Te Deum.
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Nuclear energy may be realised in a minimum of 15 years, and that only after a successful double dissolution (pretty big “if”). Meanwhile, in the forthcoming election and for the great majority of Australians, no political party of significance is offering a means for reducing power costs in the more or less immediate future. Ultra-supercritical HELE facilities: never heard of ’em.
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UK on the verge of passing radical “Net Zero” climate change law that would threaten the livelihood of millions
The CAN Bill: a radical agenda flying under the radar.
The climate change cult are taking over the UK. After years of insane proposals, the UK’s Climate and Nature (CAN) Bill is poised to become law, embedding extreme Net Zero demands into the nation’s legal framework.
One of the most contentious aspects of the CAN Bill is its emphasis on “rewilding” and nature recovery. The Bill could require large swathes of farmland to be converted back to wilderness, reducing domestic food production at a time when global supply chains are already strained. Combined with the phasing out of natural fuel-powered shipping, this could lead to food shortages, rationing, and even starvation, critics warn.
Moreover, the Bill’s focus on “ecosystem recovery” could result in authorities shutting off vast areas of countryside, confining people to cities and controlled communities. “This isn’t just about climate change; it’s about control,” said one farmer. “They’re taking away our land, our livelihoods, and our freedom—all in the name of saving the planet.”
https://www.yourdestinationnow.com/2025/01/uk-on-verge-of-passing-radical-net-zero.html
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For all those looney climateers. Here’s another banner for you: Stop climate change and embrace NetZero: Demand equal temperatures for all seasons.
50
Indonesia is making bold strides toward net-zero emissions by 2050 with plans to build 20 nuclear power plants. The first project is set to be developed by US-based ThorCon on Kelasa Island in Bangka Belitung province.
This initiative marks a significant shift in Southeast Asia’s energy landscape. The prototype reactor is expected to be operational by 2028, positioning Indonesia as a leader in nuclear energy adoption in the region.
With nuclear power offering a clean, stable, and large-scale energy source, Indonesia’s move signals a strong commitment to sustainable growth and energy independence.
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Indonesia?
Hopefully they will be able to use the knowledge that the Japanese have gained from building nuclear generation facilities….. near fault lines.
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Indonesia nuclear programme must be causing the NT solar project advocates and investors worries, much cheaper 24/7/365 electricity supply from Indonesia to Singapore.
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That silly NT idea is never going to go ahead. I believe that they still haven’t found a buyer for their proposed power in Singapore.
20
It’s absurd isn’t it?
The shortest distance between Indonesia and Singapore is as little as 18km.
Why would you take expensive wind and solar power from Australia over the world’s longest undersea cable (across an active tectonic zone and also subject to sabotage) when you could get cheap, reliable, coal, gas, nuclear and hydro power from Indonesia?
And no one in Singapore will be stupid enough to pay subsidies for the Australian power line Australians do.
What are the people behind Sun Cable thinking?
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subsidies
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I don’t believe that they could sell the power to NT as well, since the NT still has a couple of solar sites that they won’t allow to be connected to their grids. This might have something to do with the Alice Springs blackout. I note that one NT solar system has a number of diesels onsite for power backup.
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Instead of saying no wind farms, Trump should say what he does want.
Should be based on the lowest cost reliable electricity generation/storage mix.
Hold unreliable generators to a standard which forces them to provide electricity under the same basis as dispatchable generators, or they are not allowed to feed into the grid.
I don’t care what generation type is used, as long as it is frequency controlled and reliable. If wind and solar can find a way to be competitive on a like for like basis then why not use it? I think that is pretty well impossible, but why not allow people to use ay technology they can make to work.
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The only renewables site that I believe offered reliable power was a wind system in Sweden, and it quickly went broke.
10
More carnage of the woke
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2025/01/14/the-great-retreat-a-eulogy-for-the-net-zero-asset-managers-initiative/
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The companies that build them must pay for their removal.
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I am one of those who takes Trump seriously, but not literally.
Unlike the left, who do the opposite, scoffing and then being astonished and wetting themselves as the electorate supports him.
Those of us who’ve read “The Art of the Deal”, appreciate that Trump is making ‘Ambit claims’, managing the expectations of his opponents. He is not making a commitment. With this, as with tariffs and prosecutions, what he actually does will depend on the situation at decision time. The benefit to the world of him making this claim is that it’s opening the issues up for discussion. But we should not consider it to be a promise.
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