By Jo Nova
For some reason wind and solar power will not be powering a new EV battery factory in Kansas. Instead the sudden extra demand for electricity will be met by keeping an old coal-fired plant running.
Environmentalists are not happy. Wait ’til they realize no one even knows if EV’s will reduce carbon dioxide at all.
EV Battery Factory Will Require So Much Energy It Needs A Coal Plant To Power It
Kevon Killough, Cowboy State Daily
A $4 billion Panasonic electric vehicle battery factory in De Soto, Kansas, will help satisfy the Biden administration’s efforts to get everyone into an EV. It also will help extend the life of a coal-fired power plant.
The Kansas City Star reports that the factory will require between 200 and 250 megawatts of electricity to operate. That’s roughly the amount of power needed for a small city.
Naturally, to make something utterly pointless takes a lot of taxpayer money and Panasonic will receive $6.8 billion from the Inflation Reduction Act, which will, quite possibly, increase emissions and create inflation too.
As Mark Mills said it takes 250 tons of material to make one EV. All that energy has to come from somewhere:
To match the energy stored in one pound of oil requires 15 pounds of lithium battery, which in turn entails digging up about 7,000 pounds of rock and dirt to get the minerals needed—lithium, graphite, copper, nickel, aluminum, zinc, neodymium, manganese, and so on. Thus, fabricating a typical, single half-ton EV battery requires mining and processing about 250 tons of materials.
It was all foreseeable. Europe, with more renewable energy, lost most factories for solar panels years ago, and is in the process of losing wind, batteries and EV’s. This week, Volkswagen cut EV production in Germany as demand “craters”.
ht/ John Connor II and RobB
EV’s primarily displace the CO2 emissions from the vehicle to another place, for both manufacture and their running. They don’t eliminate them, not that CO2 is a problem anyway (but the claim is that CO2 is causing global “meltdown”). EVs, by and large, are coal-powered vehicles.
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Absolutely correct.
The stupidity it burns
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If only it did – we could generate some power from it.
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In South Australia EV’s are powered by gas and diesel and some coal imported from Victoria. They don’t use ‘renewable’ electricity because wind isn’t always available and frequently not working at the times that the cars need recharging. The same with solar because people want to recharge them when they get home about sunset.
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EEVs – Emissions Elsewhere Vehicles.
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Good news for that Kansa City coal fired power station and its workers.
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And it’ll still be useful when that car factory closes.
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Yes and when battery cars and windmills are piled high at the tip.
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It’s 2023, we are at the “Apex” of human civilisation, and for some reason are now heading in a new, more modern, more egalitarian direction; towards an ugly self destruction.
Any scientist can quickly demolish the cornerstone of the “atmospheric CO2 is dangerous” theme, and similarly, any real, uncorrupted engineer can expose the litany of misrepresentations that are used to support the use of so called “Renewables”; but officially, there is total silence.
We, the trusting gullibles, are being led to the precipice, and in the West; Britain, USA, Europe and Australia, many have been so badly damaged and injured that they can’t even get to that precipice.
This nicely sums it up.
“Naturally, to make something utterly pointless takes a lot of taxpayer money”.
What’s behind this ugly situation; has somebody been reading Sun Tzu’s Art of War?
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“…has somebody been reading Sun Tzu’s Art of War?”
Well, yes. The Chinese are adepts.
Too complex for western military experts.
And western politicians…
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I think Western civilisation peaked at the end of the last century and it has been downhill ever since.
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Interesting story a friend reported from Canada:
All the ‘Maid of the Mist’ tourist boats in niagara were changed to electric drives, ‘recently’. They have to recharge every trip, about every hour. Because of this the niagara falls Authority has had to completely overhaul its electric supply infrastructure, at huge costs.
This green sh*t is the gift that keeps giving.
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All that water spray and battery electrics must be a worry.
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Ronin,
Plenty of water to put the fire out . Catching fire and losing power in rapids ? Ill pass .
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Ironic and strange considering that Niagra falls was the sight of the USAs first commercial electricity generation facility…..and used hydro power !
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Transitioning will take time, just like the replacement of horses used in agriculture in USA for example
Of course, like with other long term events like climate change, the effects are not immediate, and wishing they were shows a lack of understanding.
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Peter F links to CSIRO 🙂 🙂 – you know, the institution that was once a world leading premier scientific organisation earning respect from across the globe.
“How fast is the climate changing?”
“While our climate has always changed, it is now changing at a rate that is unprecedented for many thousands of years and is due to human activities that emit greenhouse gases into the air.”
What utter PIFFLE!!
The CSIRO knows NOTHING about geologic time and until they do will continue to get it wrong (just like EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE CLIMATE “MODELS”) and be on the wrong side of history, as are you Peter.
Cheers,
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>CSIRO: “[Climate] is now changing at a rate that is unprecedented for many thousands of years”
What you get when you use fast response thermometers to measure the latest years and ultra-slow response proxies to measure the “thousands of years”.
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When Larry Marshall first took over as CEO of the CSIRO in 2015, he was going to get rid of the climate scientists, because: “If the science is settled, why do we need you?”
Howls of outrage! Strikes threatened! Writing to the Times mooted!
The government made him back down and he directed those scientists to study how to mitigate climate change instead of whether or not it was happening.
He should have stuck to his guns and fired the lot.
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then a link should be easy, but you did not provide one.
Climate models are accurate
See it is not hard
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As I demonstrated a decade ago. They were flat out 100% incorrect, beyond the bounds. The answer is: The IPCC 1990 FAR predictions were wrong
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Got anything later, you should not that I could not find anything in the last few years which supports your position
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Only 57 posts on Climate Models. What flavour of failure do you need?
For 15 years every single model predicted warming that didn’t happen. For 15 years all that extra energy supposedly did nothing. It paused and they don’t know why. Even if the world warmed (by chance) after that, it doesn’t change the fact that 15 years of energy went missing. Thou shalt not create nor destroy energy. Wrong is wrong. Physics is the same now as in 2012.
You have nothing. Not even the decency to admit you were wrong.
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Revisiting ancient technology like windmills and battery cars which were around in the 1800’s long before the IC engine sputtered into life shows that indeed it does take a long time.
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“wishing they were shows a lack of understanding.”
The only lack of understanding is that shown by those who don’t realise all this gloom and doom is predicated on models, you know those things with garbage in, garbage out. and the lack of understanding that climate has always changed and always will, and that there is nary a damn thing puny mankind can do about it.
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A “transition” to primitive, random, diffuse, expensive wind energy is a retrograde step back to the time before Thomas Newcomen invented the first practical steam engine in 1712 and wind, animal and human power was rapidly abandoned.
Mankind progressed until the National Socialists reinvigorated the idea of wind power as documented by Rupert Dawall in Green Tyranny – Exposing the Totalitarian Roots of the Climate Industrial Complex
(As well, the National Socialists imposed their censorious totalitarian and racist ideas the Left are reimposing now.)
Also see http://en.friends-against-wind.org/realities/how-renewables-and-the-global-warming-industry-are-literally-hitler
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Where have you seen the following before?
It was written by none other than National Socialist inventor Dr. Franz Lawaszeck. (SEE my link above.)
His ideas are STILL being promoted by the Left.
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If doesn’t happen soon, while the public is still ambivilent-not really aware of the implications, it never will. And rightly so.
Lasting “transitions” come by way of winning the day in a free market.
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So it’s science without evidence? If we just wait long enough there is bound to be some evidence … any decade now, right Peter? Just like all those other doomsday prophesies and second comings of Christ.
Straight out of the “How to start a cult” handbook.
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What utter gibberish, once more. My father was one of those who bought a vineyard long enough ago that it was still worked by a horse (old fellow who was barely working it). He bought a tractor as soon as he could. As tight as they come, he held off buying a rack shaker and still did it by hand until he bought more property to justify the purchase, then a second hand one. As tractors were taken up as it was an economically an advantage, second-hand equipment for those using horses must have been piling up.
Only an idiot who thinks farmers kick off a native then makes lots of money could have written that rubbish.
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There was one reason, and one reason only. They couldn’t afford not to.
Farming is a Red Queen’s Race. You have to run as fast as you can to stay still. Commodity prices reduce in real terms, and labour costs rarely decrease. The end result is that each person has to produce more, and that requires fertiliser and bigger equipment.
Of course, the increased production reduces that commodity’s price in real terms, so each person has to produce more…
A similar thing applies to transporting those commodities. Imagine still having to bag wheat and take it to the nearest railway siding with a horse and dray or team and wagon. Then the navvies load the rail wagons by hand, and the steam train takes it to port where it is loaded into the ship by hand.
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One of the practicality aspects of broad acre farming is that during sowing and harvest, you typically run 2 12-hour shifts. The machinery is fuelled, lubricants and coolant checked, tyres checked, etc in the paddock during the shift change.
Top of the line current tractors and harvesters are in the 500 kW range, although they doesn’t work at rated power the whole time – maybe 60% on average. During that 30 minute shift change, enough fuel needs to be added for the next shift. That’s in the 3.5 MWh range, more in heavy going.
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The first three paragraphs aren’t too bad, even if they do leave out the 18th century work in the UK and the 19th century innovations in Australia.
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We should all thank Mark Mills and other energy experts for pointing out the obvious lunacy about EVs and the entire TOXIC W & S madness.
But it still amazes me that most people haven’t got a clue about the EV and ICE comparisons and the idiotic claims that we must buy EVs ASAP to help save the planet.
Of course the value per dollars value of these TOXIC disasters would be a joke if it wasn’t so serious.
And you can’t tow a boat or a caravan or a trailer any distance at all. And who wants to risk charging these dangerous disasters in your garage at night?
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The whole scam from the beginning of the AGW crusade was reliant on ignorance. People did not know the facts and the media made sure they never found out. Schools did not teach history but did teach half truths and untruths so that a whole generation is unable to even discuss the global warming/climate change realities and possible solutions. We have been lied to by politicians, bureaucrats and every government scientist who should forever be banned from the science community.
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>“People did not know the facts and the media made sure they never found out”
From yesterday:
CREATING A BLUEPRINT FOR MEDIA TRANSFORMATION
500+ News and media partners
2,000,000,000 Reach of our partners
57 Countries represented
Covering Climate Now
https://coveringclimatenow.org/
In New Zealand: Stuff, the NZ Herald, TVNZ, Newsroom and The Spinoff.
Around the globe includes: Agence France-Presse, Bloomberg, CBS, The Times of India, The Guardian, Vice and national public TV broadcasters in a Sweden, Italy and the US.
Only Australian outlet I recognize is #13 DeSmog on this 2019 list.
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Making the Climate Connection
Tips and examples to help journalists make the connection between extreme weather and climate change.
https://coveringclimatenow.org/resource/your-guide-to-making-the-climate-connection/
news24 (Trusted News. First) didn’t get the memo:
‘These weather systems are usual’: More data needed to link Western Cape flooding to climate change
https://www.news24.com/news24/southafrica/news/these-weather-systems-are-usual-more-data-needed-to-link-western-cape-flooding-to-climate-change-20230928
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And on the day NIWA announce El Niño is alive and here now – it’s going to be hotter and colder and windier, d’oh! – MetService puts out warnings for ‘snow to 200m’ down south and howling frigid gales this weekend. Two out of three ain’t bad, I guess, but overall, bollocks.
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Headline to an ABC story this morning:
” As Australia’s electric vehicle market expands ‘exponentially’, is our EV infrastructure ready for the challenge? – ABC News ”
My reaction:
It’s all just so easy:
” For most people, it’s actually pretty easy, if you’re one of the approximately 70 per cent of Australians who has access to off-street parking, it’s as simple as plugging your car in for a few hours and leaving it to charge. ”
Just make sure your garage is 50 metres away from your house, and 50 metres from any neighbours, and the car is suspended over a swimming pool while charging. And you’d better stay awake watching while it’s charging.
Safe and effective again.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-29/nsw-electric-vehicle-charging-australia/102907702
Cheers
Dave B
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The safe and effective slogan should hang around bureaucratic and political necks like a millstone.
It would test all credibility to try to use it again. I wonder what slogan the powers that be will come up with next time.
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Just for clarity Forrest, that use of “Safe and effective” was my attempt at satire, not the ABC.
Cheers,
Dave B
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Yes. Your meaning was clear.
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if the “experts” are so determined to make us go green the rules should state ‘EV batteries can only be built using green energy” The cost of this enterprise would make sure no one could afford EVs. How terrible !
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Quebec has loads of green energy. Use it to make batteries rather than selling it to American power utlities.
That environmentalist are furious is ridiculous.
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It’s irony day today.
Irony Of The Day: California Regulations Boost Diesel Truck Orders
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/irony-day-california-regulations-boost-diesel-truck-orders
“There are many of us in the drayage industry that run our trucks 400 plus miles a day,” Cory Peters, chief financial officer of Best Drayage, a trucking company based in the Central Valley, told the board. “Currently, there is no zero-emission truck available today that can make that trip. You are requiring that all new drayage trucks be zero emissions starting in less than nine months from now. This will have a devastating effect on Central Valley shippers who rely on getting their goods to the rest of the world.”
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Microsoft Looking to Use Nuclear Reactors to Power Its Data Centers
Hyper-scale companies like Microsoft are always considering novel methods for powering (and cooling) their data centers. These data centers need to be located in geologically stable regions, with ample power and water supplies to keep them cool and allow them to run nonstop, as well as grow with future demands. This has become an issue lately, with power grids failing in some regions due to excessive use caused typically by heat waves. Microsoft is looking to avoid this potential issue by taking its data centers off the grid entirely. Instead, it’ll have its own grid powered by a small nuclear reactor.
As “TechPowerUp” notes, these so-called small modular reactors are much smaller than existing nuclear power plants, which allows them to be positioned right next to the data center. This adjacency mitigates any issues relating to power transmission over long distances. Companies like Microsoft are also looking for ways to shift to clean power for their data centers.
https://www.extremetech.com/energy/microsoft-looking-to-use-nuclear-reactors-to-power-its-data-centers
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But but but… Budgie Bowen says that nuclear is stupidly expensive. Surely MS wouldn’t choose that over a windmill?
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“Budgie Bowen says that nuclear is stupidly expensive.”
As opposed to Bonkers Bowen who is just stupid.
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Hmmm. Just thinking out loud about the core criticism of nuclear power being that bombs can be made using much the same technology.
If you combine the right batteries with the right nuclear power it just might lead to spectacular fireworks for Microsoft.
Not that anybody would wish any harm to come to Microsoft.
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AGAIIN this short video by Alex Epstein covers so much of their stupid responses to their so called climate crisis that I’d challenge anyone to dispute any of his points.
He is certainly correct that we don’t have a climate crisis but we do have an energy crisis.
Just look up the data since 1900 from OWI Data.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEFmVgjdLfs
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Has any of this ever been about “reducing carbon dioxide”?
Asking for a friend.
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I saw a number plate on a Tesla:
NIL CO2
Looks like it should read:
250 TON
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Car keys have many uses.
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JONOVA …
https://twitter.com/i/status/1706676593261785178
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First class. You have to give it to Elon at times.
His recent affects upon the world make an argument for a monarchical ruler over democracy. Democracy is providing us with Biden Inc., while one strong man has taken over NASA and recently de-triggered WW3.
Something to think about at least.
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Excellent.
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So the market for battery powered vehicles in Europe ( and maybe also US) is “cratering”. Which means they will be looking for alternative sucker markets to sell the damn things. Which is countries like Australia. Expect these companies to be almost giving them away, particularly to the fleet managers. Because it is the fleets that drives our market in particular. Very soon every company rep and public servant will be driving a Tesla.
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>”it is the fleets that drives our market in particular”
Bottom of the FP article Jo linked:
In Australia:
Government incentives helping electrify Australia’s vehicle fleets
https://www.ecogeneration.com.au/government-incentives-helping-electrify-australias-vehicle-fleets/
NSW – Electric vehicle fleets incentive
https://www.energy.nsw.gov.au/business-and-industry/programs-grants-and-schemes/electric-vehicles/electric-vehicle-fleets
Round 3 [Bid placement] – now closed
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Remember when the Turnbull Party gifted $300 million to promote the use of EV by fleet owners, paid to fleet suppliers?
And of course three levels of government fleets are easily converted to EV by the politicians.
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It would be way more efficient to actually have a coal powered steam car – Like the old Stanley Steamer.
A Stanley Steamer had a record 127mph run as early as 1906.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Motor_Carriage_Company
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If there were more woke people, the cost of diesel would be less. Please stop buying Hilux diesels.
Come on Aussies, get with the program – buy an EV to reduce my diesel price.
Singapore distillate stocks are 31% down on average for this time of year. That does not bode well for DOWNWARD PRESSURE ON PRICES. In fact. globally, distillate stocks are at record low.
The consolation prize is the knowledge that the French are paying equivalent of AUD3.29 per litre. However it would be a bit better if I was paying US price around AUD1.84 per litre. Even better in Russia where diesel costs AUD1.03 per litre. Slightly less than half what I am looking at now.
Russians could probably use diesel for household heating as well as burning it in their cars. They will need heating soon.
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Goos news. Less Quebec hydro energy for the US, more for the local battery plant
EV battery giant Northvolt to build multibillion-dollar plant in Quebec
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The answer my friend,
is Bowen and the wind,
the answer is Bowen and the wind.
Apologies to Bob Dylan…
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The wheels are coming off — hope no one gets hurt.
https://truckdailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/0_SGSGSVDVSD-768×403.jpg
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If the Left were serious about “carbon” (sic) emissions they would slap a huge carbon tax on EVs due to all the CO2 emissions they generate in their manufacture and use.
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So what sort of drug of preference do our political leaders and our so called scientists etc use before they lecture us on their so called climate crisis and even an EXISTENTIAL Human THREAT?
I know this is boring to some but Humans only lived to about 35 years for the first 200,000 years of our existence or 99.9% of our time on Earth.
But in the last 0.1% of our existence life expectancy has soared to 73 years and our population has increased by an extra 7 billion since 1800 and 5.5 billion more people since 1950.
AGAIN our poorest continent Africa has seen population increase from 227 million in 1950 to about 1460 million today and their life expectancy increased from 36 years in 1950 to 64 years today.
Obviously our climate today must be very BENIGN or we wouldn’t have recently seen the greatest Human FLOURISHING for the last 200,000 years.
AGAIN Fossil fuels + Traditional bio-mass have provided 92% of our global Energy since 1950 and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
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Interesting that African population rate of increase has been dropping for about 60 years.
And the global population rate of increase has also dropped over the same period.
This Macrotrends estimate uses UN Data etc.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AFR/africa/population
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Isn’t great when a plan comes together! In this case “plan” is synonymous with “train smash.”
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Who would pay a premium price for an electric vehicle, waste time locating and using recharging points, put up with lower range and range variation well below theoretical estimated range, be in danger from exothermic reaction inferno fire, with trade-in/resale value much lower than an equivalent internal combustion engine vehicle?
If the buyer was astute.
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So doing the maths, a half-a-tonne lithium battery is equivalent to about 38 litres of oil. The magic and efficiency of hydrocarbons. The choice is clear, I will continue to use and, invest in fossil fuels, like oil.
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I was in Kansas last week. When I left I noticed almost every windmill was dead still. The three or four moving were barely creeping.
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[…] Well, sure, why not, because there’s no way wind and solar will be able to power all the EVs (via Jo Nova) […]
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