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It’s that desperate: Even bitter German Greens say we must “burn more coal”

German FlagAmazing how fast the Sacred Cows get pushed aside. Until a few months ago, Germany had been planning to close its last nuclear plants and gas production had been falling for 20 years. But the Russians are cutting back the gas feed and even the German Greens understand what will happen by winter if they don’t have enough energy. Though on twitter, a lot of commentators are wondering why they don’t reopen the nuclear plants they just closed first and why they still plan to shut the last three later this year?

It was never about CO2 was it?

Germany to fire up coal plants as Russia turns down the gas

DW

As Russia reduces its supply of natural gas, Economy Minister Robert Habeck has said Germany must curb its usage. Otherwise, things “could get tight in winter,” he said. Germany must limit its use of gas for electricity production and prioritize the filling of storage facilities to compensate for a drop in supply from Russia, Economy Minister Robert Habeck said Sunday.

In a move that goes against the principles of his environmentally-friendly Green Party, the country will also have to increase the burning of coal, Habeck said.

They are offering schemes and incentives for industry to save gas so it can be stockpiled ahead of winter. They’re talking about a cap on domestic heating too, but they know it won’t be enough. It hurts:

“That’s bitter, but it’s simply necessary in this situation to lower gas usage,” he said.

Yet they still claim they can go coal free by 2030. The fantasy olive branch to soften the pain:

The coalition government has made it its goal to make German energy production coal-free by 2030.

The third party in the government coalition, the neoliberal Free Democrats (FDP), has also called for Germany to reconsider its 2017 ban on unconventional fracking…

Trump did warn them.

Is there any nation still shutting down coal plants left in the world?

h/t Old Ozzie, b.nice. Chris Uhlman.

 

 

10 out of 10 based on 61 ratings

115 comments to It’s that desperate: Even bitter German Greens say we must “burn more coal”

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Again for the upteenth time during this looming global catastrophic climate disaster the very thing that is going to destroy us all is ok to use because we cannot maintain a great lifestyle without it.

    Is this science settled or just something they settle for when the schtick hit’s the fans?

    341

  • #
    David Maddison

    No!

    The Greens and rational thinkers must fight the use of coal, gas and nuclear.

    The people will never understand how badly these energy sources are needed unless they first suffer very badly without them.

    Let this be a lesson on how much fun it is to try to survive on solar, wind and batteries.

    There is no point constantly letting proper power sources rescuing societies from the brink of disaster. The uselessness of solar and wind must be allowed to be demonstrated once and for all without the backup of proper power sources.

    421

    • #
      Ronin

      Can I suggest that the ACT be allowed to go fully dependent on unreliables, they seem to be faking it with their so-called ‘100% renewables, let them be the first crash test dummies to show the rest of us how ‘great’ the experience will be.

      50

  • #
    Rafe+Champion

    Is there any nation still shutting down coal plants left in the world?

    In Australia we can’t get rid of them fast enough. Western Australia has scheduled the closure of public coal plants with massive investment in solar and (drumroll) batteries!

    WA had practically zero wind the last 24 hours, currently 140MW that is 7% of demand. Coal 35%

    In the east wind is doing 11% of demand, fossils near 80%. In SA they are burning diesel.

    The problem is that RE can DISPLACE coal but can’t REPLACE it.

    See also the predatory function of the intermittent providers and the REAL COST of the green transition.

    360

    • #
      David Maddison

      We need to let it happen.

      The Sheeple have been too dumbed-down to understand.

      They can only wake up if they suffer very badly with major grid outages, huge power bills and economic collapse.

      Ignorance is a choice, they chose to be ignorant.

      Let them pay the price for that ignorance.

      Sadly, thinking people will suffer as well, but there is no other way to stop the madness.

      Thinking people should buy generators for refrigeration, heating, cooling and lighting before they are banned or become too expensive. Diesel might be a better choice than gasoline as diesel fuel stores longer plus can be substituted by vegetable oil (if you can get it).

      291

      • #
        Old Goat

        David,
        I used to look at preppers as “panic merchants” but now I realise they were probably ahead of the curve . The 5 P’s are still relevant . You will not be able to avoid what is coming but you can take precautions to mitigate its effects . Those who choose to be ignorant will suffer the most .

        50

      • #
        LG

        How big of a generator is required to run a typical full-size fridge? As that would be my main concern. Is 2kw enough, considering fridges draw a high load on startup?

        10

    • #
      b.nice

      WA are lucky that they have a pretty much inexhaustible supply of gas, so will probably not suffer the same problems the eastern states are currently experiencing.

      With Solar and batteries, you will regularly be running on 100% gas. !

      140

      • #
        yarpos

        Exactly. If you don’t destroy the generation capacity that you actually depend on, you can do expensive virtue signaling all you like. Sadly in the Eastern States they believe their own BS and continue to destroy/decommission coal plants.

        130

      • #
        Graeme#4

        Yes, and the coal plants being shut are the same ones that they spent a lot of money on, trying to resurrect them, with little success. I think they were doomed anyway. Also WA has a lot of cheap gas that I’m betting will be used to take up the slack. The modern coal plant, Bluewaters, will still keep going. It’s also political, as in the past, Labor was unwilling to shut the older coal plants in what is a Labor stronghold. But now, with an overwhelming majority, they can afford to take a political hit there.

        50

        • #
          b.nice

          I see no problems with WA shutting old coal fired stations and replacing them with gas.

          Probably the common sense move.

          Even solar can make sense if you have cheap gas for filling the many gaps in solar output.

          But batteries.. don’t waste your money !

          120

      • #
        Eng_Ian

        It’s ONE pipeline from Bunbury to Dampier. If it is damaged or removed from service due to maintenance, damage or even an act of domestic terrorism, (think green idiot), then the whole or Perth will go cold and dark.

        Imagine a city fueled with just one supply. Where is the redundancy? Would a sane person do this?

        220

        • #
          Chad

          The WA grid is small enough to survive on bugger all generation.
          Probably enough generators in a single Bunnings to keep the states lights on. ,!
          ( much of the state still runs on diesel generators anyway. !)
          Please do not keep using WA as any kind of reference for how to deal with a real grid problem in the East.

          130

        • #
          b.nice

          Good point !

          At least if they have coal still running, they would have some reliable electricity.

          70

        • #
          William

          I recall Auckland had problems a few years ago when its electricity supply into the city went kaput.

          00

        • #
          ozfred

          A fair bit of the pipeline is actually duplexed….

          00

    • #
      Daffy

      People like to think that batteries will do the trick. A couple of analyses of the USA at Manhattan Contrarian demonstrate for that country the impossibly vast cost of adequate batteries. Less so here because of size and different climate, but even so, to run the whole grid at night on a low wind week would take billions of dollars worth of batteries and grid upgrades. Billions! Where are the mines going to go to extract the materials? Not in Australia, too hard, and the Greens might close the mines the day after they’ve started.

      50

  • #
    David Maddison

    How appropriate that this is happening in Germany.

    After all, it was the National Socialists that first thought you could run a modern society on wind power as shown in Rupert Darwall’s book “Green Tyranny: Exposing the Totalitarian Roots of the Climate Industrial Complex”.

    Obviously the rejection of perfectly proper hydrocarbon and nuclear fuels also requires the control of information, propaganda and suppression of dissent, a characteristic of the National Socialists.

    Their evil legacy lingers on.

    161

  • #
    Ian1946

    Every time I look at the AEMO I always see that NSW is generating at least 1.5 Gw less than the States demand. Has the shutdown unit at Liddell been bought back on line or do they think S&W can power the state.

    Would l be correct that the high prices in Queensland and Victoria are due to propping up NSW.

    150

    • #
      Chad

      Its more likely that the AEMO would rather fully load the more efficient , modern , QqLD coal plants, for the cheapest generation cost….than any technical issue.
      Isnt that the way the “Market” is supposed to work..? The cheapest bid wins ?

      50

  • #
    David Maddison

    Remember: when something goes wrong in the circus, they send in the clowns to distract the audience. Well, something has gone very wrong with this circus and the clowns are everywhere.

    291

  • #
    RicDre

    Green Aussie PM Caves, Offers Subsidies for Coal and Gas

    Essay by Eric Worrall

    Australia has embraced a worst of both worlds energy policy, in which both renewables and fossil fuel providers will receive generous subsidies to maintain their services.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/06/20/climate-activist-aussie-pm-caves-offers-capacity-subsidies-to-coal-and-gas/

    150

    • #
      David Maddison

      Of course, fossil fuel generation would not need subsidies in a free market and it never did because power could be produced cheaply, cleanly and efficiently.

      Coal generators have been breaking down recently, possibly because the owners have been constantly told by the Left activists and Left Government that “coal has no future”. Why therefore, when you fully expect your coal asset to be blown up as part of a “spectacular” media event and its associated open cut coal mine to be turned into a lake, would you invest money in maintenance?

      Australia had a perfectly workable power generation system until the “green” policies of the National Socialists were adopted here and throughout the West.

      SEE this under 2 minutes excerpt from Rupert Darwall.

      https://youtu.be/q__pKHXfi-k

      141

  • #
    Robber

    Except that Victoriastan has said no to any support for coal and gas generators.
    Isn’t the record broken yet? “the best and most reliable form of new energy is renewable energy.” How can intermittent energy be reliable? Oh, you mean with 100% backup that has not been required of any renewable supplier. No more connections to the grid unless supply is guaranteed 24×7. And not funded by more government handouts.
    Now we are told “storage” needs to be “incentivised”. What are the real costs of an electricity system that delivers 8,000 MW from solar during daylight hours but must then have a reliable system that delivers 8,000 MW during the other 16 hours each day?
    As a reference point, that “big battery” in SA can deliver 100 MW for just 1 hour and cost about $100 million.
    Snowy2 is reportedly going to deliver 2,000 MW for a week, once a lot of water is pumped uphill, and it is reportedly running late and way over budget at $10 billion.

    130

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    So it’s not about those sanctions on Russian gas?

    112

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      It’s about sanctions on Australian gas by Australian governments.

      160

    • #
      David Maddison

      Peter, it’s about the cruel energy starvation policies of Leftoid governments against their own people.

      If the Germans and European governments in general had listened to President Trump, they wouldn’t be having this problem. The US was rich in energy and had surpluses for export under Trump, not now under an illegitimate Leftoid government and their energy starvation policies against the American people.

      141

  • #
    OldOzzie

    From thread 2 below – worth repeating

    Phillip,

    I had the same – just going through trying to calculate what I am going to do for Electricity and Gas

    Using https://www.energymadeeasy.gov.au/

    Origin Energy – Ausgrid and Jemena are Electricity and Gas Wholesalers in my NSW Area for both Origin and AGL

    Electricity – https://www.energymadeeasy.gov.au/plan?id=ORI331990MRE&postcode=2092

    Gas – https://www.energymadeeasy.gov.au/plan?id=ORI332052MRG&postcode=2092

    AGL

    Electrcity – https://www.energymadeeasy.gov.au/plan?id=ORI332052MRG&postcode=2092

    Gas – https://www.energymadeeasy.gov.au/plan?id=ORI332052MRG&postcode=2092

    And you then can print each plan out and compare with existing bills – tomorrow’s Homework and what is not obvious is if those current rates are from 1 July 2022 – when finalising. will ring and confirm, but as all sites say call times are long as obviously people are panicking after receiving the letters from Retail Suppliers with Increases

    You can get AGL Effective rates from this site then compare 1 July 2022 to previous to Rates for idea of AGL Rate Changes for Electricity and Gas

    https://www.agl.com.au/rates-contracts/standard-retail-contracts

    Hope of use

    80

    • #
      • #
        OldOzzie

        Energy retailer tells more than 70,000 customers to go elsewhere or face doubling of prices

        ReAmped Energy chief executive says he would rather people were ‘getting better deals’ amid soaring wholesale prices

        ReAmped said it told its customers to shift “before it’s too late”, because several retailers have already started “to pull up the drawbridge”. Those who remain can expect a doubling in prices within the next week as the company resets costs.

        Blincoe said the big three retailers – AGL, EnergyAustralia and Origin – all stand to retake market share since they also controlled generation, and their costs had not risen significantly.

        “They make a big margin on the wholesale market, which is, as I see it, above retail market,” he said. “The extraction costs of gas [and other fuels] haven’t changed, but the global commodity price has, so you can draw your own conclusions for those guys’ profit.”

        Access to AGL’s 4.5 million customers was one of the reasons Canadian asset manager Brookfield joined billionaire Mike Cannon-Brookes in a bid to take that company private earlier this year. That bid was rebuffed but Cannon-Brookes has lately succeeded in blocking AGL’s demerger plan and may make another tilt at a takeover.

        ReAmped joins Weston Energy as among the companies telling customers that it couldn’t meet contracts at existing prices. Weston, a gas supplier, said on 23 May that prices had risen more than 180% since April, and were more than triple the level at the start of 2022.

        With winter demand typically the heaviest on the grid and for gas during the year, the price problems may worsen further, just as the Albanese government takes over.

        70

        • #
          Robber

          In Victoria, the Essential Services Commission calculates a “Victorian Default Offer” – maximum rates to apply from July 1, 2022 for residential customers vary depending on the distribution zone, but for Melb:
          $1.0753/day, $0.2327/kWh flat rate. $0.3251/kWh peak 3-9pm, $0.1831/kWh offpeak.
          That’s about a 5% increase.
          Rates offered by the multitude of retailers can be found at Vic Govt compare energy website.
          It will be interesting to see whether offers change on July 1, as presently some retailers offer discounts of about 20% off the VDO.
          Current offers for an assumed usage vary from $1160/year to $1490/year which is equal to the VDO.

          30

        • #
          Ronin

          ReAmped should be known as ‘DeAmped’.

          40

  • #
    Neville

    The golden rule is we shouldn’t WASTE one single $ on energy UNLESS it is RELIABLE BASE-LOAD power like
    Coal, Gas, Hydro or perhaps in time Nuclear.
    Wasting endless BILLIONS $ on TOXIC UNRELIABLE energy like S & W will always be a disaster and ditto batteries and Twiggy’s so called Green Hydrogen.

    121

  • #
    David Maddison

    In terms of the fundamental engineering decision that led to the unreliables disaster, I think it happened when non-dispatchable generators were allowed to connect to the grid. (That’s why politicians should never be allowed to make engineering decisions.)

    In terms of the economic disaster caused by unreliables, it was when non-dispatchable generators created a business model, with the collusion of Government and Greens, whereby their principal economic activity was harvesting subsidies from the taxpayer and consumer and not generating electricity.

    151

    • #
      Ronin

      Allowing ephemeral power on the grid ranks alongside other idiotic decisions like allowing Uber to compete with established taxis and letting those godawful scooters proliferate on all our footpaths.

      50

  • #
    wokebuster

    In Australia we don’t just shut them down. We blow them up.

    80

  • #
    rowjay

    Found an interesting website – ember-climate.org – that has a useful global electricity review. It is possible to calculate capacity factors for various generation types. Wind for 2020 is summarised below:

    Country….Installed (nameplate) capacity (GW)….Capacity Factor

    Australia….8.6….27.1%
    China…….281.99…18.9%
    Denmark…..6.23….29.9%
    France……17.38…26.1%
    Germany …62.18….24.3%
    NZ……….0.78….33.7%
    UK………24.48….34.4%
    USA…….117.74….32.8%

    I was surprised to find that German wind capacity factors were not that good – even worse than Australia. And check out China – an enormous 282 GW of installed capacity an a paltry 18.9% capacity factor. No wonder they are building so many coal-fired generators to keep the economy ticking over.

    What the table does not show is the generation variability – if there is a steady wind all year the output is useful. If it is patchy like Australia, then there is a heavy reliance on backup.

    120

    • #
      rowjay

      Left out wind for Spain , 2020

      Country….Installed (nameplate) capacity (GW)….Capacity Factor

      Spain…29.09….23.8%

      Once again a surprise – the MSM gave me the impression that they were world leaders.

      80

      • #
        Tel

        If you presume the installers are moderately rational (I know, I know … this is for simplification purposes) they would install each new wind turbine in the best available location at the time of installation. As the next and the next turbine gets installed they go into progressively worse sites.

        Therefore countries ranked as “world leaders” in terms of installation speed and total nameplate capacity will consistently have the lowest capacity factor … all other things being equal.

        It also depends on the amount of available capital, in terms of the best sites for wind are often also difficult to access (e.g. offshore, on mountain tops, extra high towers, etc).

        10

        • #
          Rafe+Champion

          They become less efficient as they get older, also if they are not spaced out enough they will interfere with turbines downwind.

          10

        • #
          Mike

          Correct. And the cost of transmission lines to connect all these low efficiency eyesores is significantly higher than a single large coal or gas unit. In addition, natural gas and oil can be transported long distances fairly efficiently in modern pipelines. This is not the case for electricity so remote windfarms also suffer significant losses to reach the main grid. Not surprisingly, these costs are seldom taken into account when calculating the total cost of generation.

          10

    • #
      b.nice

      Nice info, Thanks 🙂

      61

    • #
      b.nice

      Would be interesting to see a reliability factor…. say, the percent time they are above say 50% of name plate ?

      Coal would be 100% or very close to it, wind rough guesstimate, say 5%?

      61

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Germany rushed into renewables and installed wind turbines across the northern plains. (Saw endless wind ‘farms’ in 2014 while on train to Prague). These had a very poor CF (16-18% depending on the weather that year) so would be dragging down the average which includes those North Sea ones. German offshore “farms” average around 35.2% (but that was in 2018 whereas 2021 was down by 21% so 27-28%). Belgium “off-shore has a similar CF although less variation across the range (German figure is boosted by 2 very high “farms”).

      The UK on-shore used to run between 21.5 and 27% but the newer North Sea ones boost the figure. UK off-shore farms are a bit newer and average 38-39% (depending on the weather) but were 18% lower in 2020 (about 31%). And some of their offshore “farms” are in the Irish sea.

      50

  • #
    Neville

    DR Roy Spencer tries to accurately compare ICE vehicle costs to EVs and finds little difference if we factor in the total inputs.
    So how could any govt think so irrationally and ignore the ongoing TOTAL costs of all the extra TOXIC S & W idiocy just to support millions of TOXIC EVs by 2030 and beyond?
    Even with high TAXPAYER subsidies TOXIC EVs are very expensive and clueless on long trips and you can’t tow a Caravan or boat or trailer for any distance.
    So how will we provide the EXTRA TOXIC S & W energy to provide for our present needs plus all the EXTRA power required for millions more TOXIC EVs FOREVER?
    How long before we wake up?

    https://www.drroyspencer.com/2022/06/evs-fossil-fuel-economy-no-better-than-ice-vehicles/#comments

    61

    • #
      rowjay

      Repeat of an earlier post but relevant

      Recently looked at buying a plug-in hybrid. It would get 4 km/KWh in pure battery mode. At 27c/KWh to charge (cheap ACT 100% renewable electricity), it would cost about 7c/km and only take about 4-5 hrs to charge at home.

      If power prices double to 57c/KWh, it would cost 14c/km to charge, and is now on par with my current diesel drive fuel cost/km at a $2.20/litre bowser price.

      60

      • #
        Chad

        ….and you dont have the additional capital cost of the PHEV to add to your running / depreciation costs.
        I am still regretting no having a LPG dual fuel conversion on my car when it was subsidised years ago !

        30

  • #
    rowjay

    Another summary from ember-climate.org, this time solar for 2020.

    Country….Installed (nameplate) capacity (GW)….Capacity Factor

    Australia…17.34…13.8%
    China……..254.35…11.7%
    Denmark…1.3…..10.4%
    France…….11.73…13.0%
    Germany….53.78…10.3%
    NZ…………0.14…13.0%
    Singapore…0.33…21.4%
    Spain…….14.09…16.7%
    UK………..13.46…11.3%
    USA……….75.57…19.7%

    Once again, the enormous solar installed capacity for China – 254 GW for a paltry 11.7% capacity factor.

    Combined wind + solar for China in 2020 – 536.35 GW with a 15.5% capacity factor – wow!

    60

  • #
    the sting

    What is the cost of wind power actually delivered , taking into account subsidies etc. from the government / taxpayer ?

    50

  • #
  • #
    Zane

    Maybe the Germans should paint their coal green before burning it. That might help with the optics. 😀

    140

  • #
    Zane

    Well whaddaya know. I read on Watt’s Up that Australia’s Energy Security Board has released a ” capacity market blueprint ” to help to resolve current power supply issues. Energy providers would receive payments for their ability to provide ” capacity ” in the electricity market.

    Seem to recall someone here rambling about transitioning the Oz grid to a capacity market from the eastern States current EOM – Energy Only Market. Heck, I think that person might even have been myself. 😀

    As financial guru Charlie Munger once wrote, show me the incentive, and I’ll show you the result.

    Capacity. It’s a word we might well be hearing more of. After all, WA, the UK, most of Europe, and many US states already operate under capacity market mechanisms.

    Albo, Bowen, and Labor could take credit for reinventing the wheel and patting themselves on the back for being certified energy geniuses.

    If it keeps the lights on, I say let’s try it.

    70

    • #
      Mike Jonas

      Texas didn’t have a capacity market in Feb last year, and it was a major factor in their grid failure.
      A capacity market should keep the lights on. Let’s try it.

      10

    • #
      Mike

      This just highlights the utter and complete stupidity of building unreliables at all. If you have to pay real generation to idle just in case the unreliables fail (and they will because they are, umm, unreliable) you should obviously save the enormous cost of the unreliables and just build real generation. For those that don’t really understand electricity generation, you can’t simply turn a generator on when you lose significant supply, it has to already be running or it is too late. It embarrasses me that our so called Engineering Societies aren’t screaming this in the news.

      20

  • #

    Language is a funny thing. If I do something I’d rather not do and it, “leaves a bitter taste in my mouth”, it doesn’t mean I feel bitter about it.

    45

  • #
    Kim

    If Germany is putting its lot in with coal then it will have to be a substantial long term commitment or the investment wont be there.

    50

  • #
    Neville

    Dr Hansen and Bill McKibben tell us that we must reduce co2 levels back to 350 ppm or the level in 1988.
    Today co2 level is about 420 ppm so we need to somehow reduce co2 levels by 70 ppm or 0.007% of the atmosphere.
    Does anyone seriously BELIEVE their nonsense?

    71

  • #

    Okay okay!

    Sometimes I think that maybe I am a ‘glass half full’ guy, and that the ‘crash and burn’ thing about ….. needing the blackouts of a grid crash to wake people up is just too drastic to even contemplate.

    Picture this scenario. (This is not me, but the people in power)

    In the midst of all this lunacy about CO2 induced Climate Change, how the f*** do we tell people that we just CANNOT do without coal fired power. We’re in so deep that to ‘back down’ now would go so badly.

    Have you noticed lately the small concessions being mouthed about ….. how we might just need to keep coal fired power around to, umm, help us out.

    It’s not just in Germany, but little rumblings even here in Australia.

    Is what is happening now that get out of jail free card being played, you know, a little bit here, a little bit there. ‘Engineering advice says that …..’ Security ….. Reliability ….. actual ability to deliver on demand ….. the need for power to be there all the time.

    Maybe, just maybe, the light at the end of the tunnel is not really an approaching Locomotive.

    Waiting waiting waiting!

    Tony.

    170

    • #
      David Maddison

      I’m afraid I don’t share your optimism, Tony.

      91

      • #
        b.nice

        ditto… but can still hope.

        51

      • #
        el+gordo

        Tony is correct, there is an acknowledgement by the average citizens that coal is still king and Renewables don’t have what it takes. All it took was a momentary energy crisis on the eastern seaboard.

        100

        • #
          Philip

          El gordo says

          Tony is correct, there is an acknowledgement by the average citizens that coal is still king and Renewables don’t have what it takes. All it took was a momentary energy crisis on the eastern seaboard

          This is true, but you need politicians on a party level to state this as policy, or what the citizen wants will not be represented.

          So Will they ? If they did they would win. But I fear this stuff just doesn’t go down in political circles anymore. Remember that politicians are not that well informed or curious like you people are.

          But in the end, of course they will have to keep some coal going, they’ll just have to. It’s how much damage they do in the meantime and at what price will electricity be by then ?

          11

      • #
        Mike Jonas

        Listening to Chris Bowen may be an unpleasant experience. but I hope and think that the people of Australia have a genuine friend in the new government – resources minister Madeleine King.

        In March 2021, King stated that the ALP would oppose a moratorium on new coal mines and that “so long as international markets want to buy Australian coal, which is high quality, then they will be able to”.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeleine_King

        30

    • #
      rowjay

      You’ve got to feel for the poor power management souls behind the scene trying to keep this looming blackout locomotive out of the tunnel without the Government support they need. If they burn out from the stress, I suppose they could always get a less stressful job as an air traffic controller.

      40

    • #
      Ross

      If there is one side to politics that can lie and get away with it, it will be Labor (and the Greens). Hence, they may not have a problem continuing with coal and not being criticised. Whereas, if the LNP were to do it, the media ( especially the ABC) would come down on them like a tonne of bricks. Remember for years how the RGR government in Australia could do nothing about the illegal boat arrivals. Couldn’t be done they said! Nup, boat turn backs are impractical. Interesting we have the same clueless clown running the energy show at the moment – Chris Bowen. All he needs to do is repeat all his actions from 2012 and apply it to the energy sector.

      40

    • #
      Rafe+Champion

      Ross makes a good point about Labor getting away with things that the Coalition could not (economic reform in the 1980s that was backed by the Coalition in opposition). It could happen again and I agree with Tony (fingers and toes crossed) because I always hoped that the Titanic could be turned before it hits the bergs and sinks.

      There is a hope that enough members of the ESB are starting the realise the bleeding obvious, that the combination of wind droughts and lack of grid-scale storage means that the retreat from coal has gone as far as it can for the time being. People don’t actually say that, even the man who said that closing more coal at present is suicidal was careful to say that coal should not stay a minute longer than necessary.

      That can be translated to read that coal is going to be here until nuclear is up and running. Not in my lifetime but who cares, we have enough beautiful coal to last for centuries

      30

  • #
    Ronin

    QLD on 106% coal last night at 4 am, you ripper. !

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    Philip

    Seems to me the only way now is to unfortunately submit to their system of buying solar cells and battery on your house.

    Problem is our house receives only 3 hrs of sunlight per day and the greens won’t let us chop the tall trees down (I have asked already).

    So the hippy-esque dream of design to avoid using power from the grid seems something to aim for again – wood supply for heating water and cooking is an asset to aim for. It is the electric hob and oven that consumes the electricity in the standard house, then fridge and hot water.

    It was one of my dreams to have a brick thermal mass wood fired oven with water pipes attached to a house, and a forest at your disposal.

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    Ronin

    It appears that hydro can be stuffed up by too much water just like wind will shutdown if the wind blows too hard, it seems Tumut3 has had to back off because after the water has been through its turbines, it drops into Blowering dam which is chockers at the moment from all the rain that we were told would never fill a dam again, and Blowering can’t get rid of it fast enough because all downstream is full and flooding farms etc. LOL

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    • #
      b.nice

      Interesting, isn’t it.

      They can’t let water out of Tumut, because Blowering is too full.

      Can’t let too much water out of Blowering, or they will flood downstream.

      OOPS !

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  • #
    RickWill

    If CO2 did have any impact on the weather then this new found incentivising of fossil fuels would be a concern. Nothing has changes because coal remains the most economic energy source.

    It is a concern for the UN. The purpose of the UN has evolved to its own survival. Hence the push for “climate ambition” and the administrative fees that would ensue.

    The Charter of the UN was about preventing armed conflict:

    WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
    to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
    to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
    to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
    to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

    AND FOR THESE ENDS
    to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and
    to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and
    to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and
    to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,

    HAVE RESOLVED TO COMBINE OUR EFFORTS TO ACCOMPLISH THESE AIMS.
    Accordingly, our respective Governments, through representatives assembled in the city of San Francisco, who have exhibited their full powers found to be in good and due form, have agreed to the present Charter of the United Nations and do hereby establish an international organization to be known as the United Nations.

    Wars have been ongoing during the 70 years since the Charter was signed – so failed there. Russia v Ukraine the latest saga on a long history of sorry sagas.

    UN’s 1 in 100 year opportunity to control a pandemic failed – they actually promoted the virus spread and there was armed conflict in the streets; one side with guns and the other side with anything they could throw.

    China and India will only stop burning coal when there is a better source of energy or the coal runs out. If the former fails then there is every prospect China will come and take coal from whoever has it.

    The whole CO2 mess can be solved with one simple understanding –
    OPEN OCEAN WATER CANNOT SUSTAIN A TEMPERATURE ABOVE 30C.

    This is the simplest way to get CO2 demonisers to go look at reality. No climate model obeys this fundamental physical constraint.

    Right now, the cost of generating electricity from wind and solar is on a par with fossil fuel cost so they are an economic fuel replacement if the coal or gas plant is already paid for, is fully automatic and can be stopped and started near instantly. However the existing wind turbines and solar panels were made from gas and coal at least a year ago so this capital cost is no longer reflective of the current coal and gas price or what it will be when the W&S generators require replacement.

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    Daffy

    I’m sure most people have no idea at the complex engineering behind heavy power generation, so are easily beguiled by the flim flam of unreliable/intermittent generation firmed with batteries. It’s a primary school level of appreciation. You know, cut out some images from a magazine or website and paste them into your school project on ‘energy’ and job done.
    The thing is, politicians seem to have the year 6 level of appreciation of the issue without calling for detailed engineering plans and quantitative risk and financial assessments with a team red there to test it. Just stick some images in a report and job done, it seems.
    I continue to be gobsmacked by the dereliction of duty we see in politicians, the AEMO, and generators who have not pushed back, let alone the Institute of Engineers.

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  • #
    Andrew McRae

    Coal mine fined for ‘unacceptable’ damage to world-renowned NSW rock formations
    [photo of cliffs]
    A coal mining giant is fined $150,000 for causing surface cracks to rock formations estimated to be up to 10 million years old in NSW’s Greater Blue Mountains, with fears more cracks will be discovered.

    There you have it, doubters. Absolute photographic proof that coal causes climb-it change.

    😛

    21

  • #
    David Maddison

    Here’s an article about US forests being cut down and shipped across The Atlantic for fuel for European devastation.

    Most of the anti-energy Left see these beautiful trees as nothing more than “biomass”.

    For the rest of us, these are beautiful forests.

    Note: this is a Leftist and warmist website and even they think it’s bad.

    https://www.nrdc.org/resources/our-forests-arent-fuel

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    • #
      Serp

      I particularly liked the line “Without massive subsidies, biomass can’t compete with solar and wind.” It’s subsidies all the way down.

      10

  • #

    […] It’s that desperate: Even bitter German Greens say we must “burn more coal” […]

    00

  • #
    another ian

    You realise you have been told the truth about renewables?

    It actually has nothing to do with energy –

    You renew all the equipment about every 15 years (/s in case)

    00

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