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The Atlantic warns that Nuclear War is a climate problem (and you thought bombs were OK?)

Just in case people were thinking a few nuclear bombs don’t matter:

“…even a relatively “minor” exchange of nuclear weapons would wreck the planet’s climate in enormous and long-lasting ways.”

Despite sounding crazily disconnected from reality, Robinson Meyer is slightly less crazy than the cult people he’s trying to reach.  Many “artists” and “climate concerned progressives” have leapt on the latest hot-fashion-in-activism (who could have seen that coming?) and they’re calling for a No Fly Zone over Ukraine. It’s like they believe that putting up a sign saying “Warplane Free” will stop the warplanes.

Meyer has figured out that a No Fly Zone might lead to World War III, and he’s trying warn the raptured throngs, that things might not work out so well. Naturally, he’s speaking in lingua-leftie. But how, exactly do you scare someone in a climate cult? Not with nuclear war, but with something catastro-double-awful-bad for the climate.

On Top of Everything Else, Nuclear War Would Be a Climate Problem

By Robinson Meyer,  The Atlantic

 Social media pundits are having a field day:

On the richter scale of climate porn, what’s the worst thing Meyer can imagine:

 “And it would be worse for the climate than any energy policy that Donald Trump ever proposed.”

He’s gently telling them their calls for a No Fly Zone might be more damaging for the climate than the demon-man himself. I don’t think they’ll get the message though. The whole package just won’t parse. He goes on to tell them nuclear war “carbon” doesn’t warm the world, it cools it, and cooling is awful.

After 26 UN COP meetings aimed at cooling the world by lowering carbon, this story will just bounce right off:

A 2007 study estimated that if 100 small nuclear weapons were detonated, a number equal to only 0.03 percent of the planet’s total arsenal, the number of “direct fatalities due to fire and smoke would be comparable to those worldwide in World War II.” Towering clouds would carry more than five megatons of soot and ash from these fires high into the atmosphere.

All this carbon would transform the climate, shielding it from the sun’s heat. Within months, the planet’s average temperature would fall by more than 2 degrees Fahrenheit; some amount of this cooling would persist for more than a decade. But far from reversing climate change, this cooling would be destabilizing. It would reduce global precipitation by about 10 percent, inducing global drought conditions. In parts of North America and Europe, the growing season would shorten by 10 to 20 days.

Ponder how far these people are from reality, even at the sensible end of the spectrum. He goes on to say that ocean acidification would get worse, the ozone layer would be destroyed, the world will be fried by extra UV radiation, and people will get skin cancer.

h/t Ed Driscoll, Instapundit

9.8 out of 10 based on 63 ratings

188 comments to The Atlantic warns that Nuclear War is a climate problem (and you thought bombs were OK?)

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    • #
      Ronin

      This sounds like something gullible Greta would say.

      100

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      czechlist

      If I am not mistaken the IPCC Charter calls for discovering and identifying human causes of climate change. Their whole existence relies upon reporting human influences. The results are predetermined.

      320

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      bobn

      Given The Atlantic and The Atlantic Council are controlled / fronts for the CIA, who gives a damn what propaganda they exude.

      00

    • #

      David,

      Thanks for the link to your article which says,

      That is really all there is to alarmist science and it sure is silly! No deep scientific mystery. Just assume that everything that happens is our fault, program the computers that way, and let the computer then predict worse to come. Ignore all the research that says otherwise. Ignore the little ice age and the medieval warm period. Ignore natural change even though it is right in front of us.

      I remember a Conference at the Royal Society in London some years ago.
      Questions from the floor were invited after each presentation and I rose to ask a question following a presentation by a representative of the Hadley Center.
      I accepted the microphone and started to ask my question by saying,
      Sir, you say you assess changes in atmospheric CO2 concentration by accounting the emissions of CO2 from human activity. Last Thursday ‘Nature’ published a paper by Indermuhle et al. that reported a fall in atmospheric CO2 concentration happened 300 years ago. So my question is, where did the power stations shut 300 years ago? …
      At this point I stopped because the audience had burst into laughter.
      When the audience had quietened, I asked,
      Sir, can you please say where the power stations were shut 300 years ago? or – failing that – why you do not account natural variability?
      The speaker rose, said, “We only account human emissions” then sat and said no more.
      Richard

      150

  • #
    johnbuk

    Who said left wing comedy wasn’t a thing? Thank God for the highly educated elite, where would we deplorables be without them?

    260

    • #
      TdeF

      The highly educated elite completely disagree with man made Global Warming. 30,000 real scientists with name, title, qualification, address signed the Oregon Petition last century to say this was bunkum. It was ignored.

      Climate Science is Climate Scientology. These are faux scientists or opportunists. Most meteorologists disagree with this stuff, but what would they know about the weather?

      And total CO2 in the air from man’s activities is under 4% of total CO2. Whether it has any discernible effect. CO2 levels are demonstrably set by rapid equilibrium with the vast oceans and no one has shown otherwise.

      380

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        TdeF

        Not one of the predictions of man made rapid Global Warming has come true in 34 years.

        And not one of the arguments for man made rapid Global Warming has been proven.

        Nuclear weapons however are real and the Hiroshima bomb was 1/1000th of the power of hydrogen bombs.

        290

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          Klem

          The co2 based anthropogenic climate change hypothesis has been debunked thousands of times over he past 34 years. When an hypothesis has been discredited but people continue to believe it anyway, it isn’t science anymore, it is a faith or religion.

          260

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          RobK

          The co2 based anthropogenic climate change hypothesis has been debunked thousands of times over he past 34 years.

          That’s why I call it the “CO2 Conjecture “.

          Noun: conjecture
          |kun’jek‑chu|
          A hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence) • he dismissed it as mere conjecture
          = speculation
          A message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence
          = guess, hypothesis, speculation, supposition, surmisal, surmise
          Reasoning that involves the formation of conclusions from incomplete evidence
          Verb: conjecture
          |kun’jek‑chu|
          To believe especially on uncertain or tentative grounds • Scientists conjectured that large dinosaurs lived in swamps

          00

      • #
        Ronin

        “And total CO2 in the air from man’s activities is under 4%.

        More like .04%

        110

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          Serp

          I took it to mean four percent of the four hundred parts per million or rather of the annual increase, if any, in that background level.

          150

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          TdeF

          Of total CO2. The argument was that we have increased CO2 50% since 1850. It is under 4%. In 1958, more than halfway through the 20th century and after two world wars, it was 2.03% of total CO2.

          60

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        GlenM

        But they weren’t real climate scientists and most of the signatories have links with tobacco and fossil fuels. Thouroghly debunked. Stick that in yer pipe.

        113

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          TdeF

          Utter rubbish. Do you really believe 30,000 scientists were paid by tobacco and oil companies to sign a petition 25 years ago? Seriously? When were you last paid to sign a petition? With your name, address and qualifications and a degree in science?

          And they were right! Unless you can point out where the climate has actually changed, the seas have risen and cities have become deserted or flooded?

          If there was somebody pretending to be a Climate Scientist, it is Al Gore who has no science ability, mathematically incompetent with a degree in English whose family wealth was based on their Tennessee tobacco business. Gore entered congress representing tobacco farmers. And still you believe such people?

          60

          • #
            TdeF

            The other major criticism which persists is that few of the signatories had ‘expertise in Climate Science’ as if that was a special branch of science and membership of that branch allowed the few to be exclusive holders of the sacred science.

            All science no matter what you call it has to pass the basic test of verifiable proof. And the religion of Climate Science has failed. 34 years later not a single prediction has come true, so it is thoroughly debunked by reality.

            60

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              TdeF

              And Professor Tim Flannery, Chief Climate Commissioner for Australia was the same as Al Gore, though lacking the tobacco wealth.

              Amathematical with a degree in English from Latrobe University, he parlayed an expertise in extinct marsupials into the leading Climate Scientist position in this country. “Even the rains which fall will not fill the dams”. Tell that to the people in NSW and Queensland.

              The Green communists have tried to destroy the credibility of the Oregon petition for 25 years. Green business is now bigger than tobacco and as dangerous to humanity as it seeks to undermine Western Democracies. And never a bad thing to say about China.

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            GlenM

            Maybe I’ll use a sarcasm note with it.

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          Kalm Keith

          I’m taking that as “sarc”.
          🙂

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            TdeF

            I would also prefer to think the idea that Climate Change is more deadly than nuclear war was a joke. But it’s not.

            The Atlantic was a very respected magazine founded in 1857 as a literary magazine. It still has half a million subscribers. But since 2017 it has been owned by Steve Jobs’ widow.

            And all the super rich seem to have bought and modified old media, most notably Jeff Bezos who bought the Washington Post. And the trillionaires of silicon valley push their post modernist/woke agenda. Which is a laugh as the world has never seen such white privilege.

            One of the problems of not having a nuclear war is that people start to dismiss it as unrealistic where they are convinced climate change is a real thing. Which is the point of this post.

            There is even a statement later that modern nuclear weapons are less deadly because pocket sized warheads are more accurate and therefore less destructive. Seriously. Maybe only 25,000 people a pop? We should feel so much safer.

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              Kalm Keith

              Can’t wait to see what news media outlets are bought by the widows of Bill Gates and Enrico Faucci.

              Is that Sydney newspaper The “Truth” still around?

              00

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    How come there’s no concern for the millions or even 100’s of millions of people that would be instantly incinerated or eventually die from radiation poisoning?

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      Jojodogfacedboy

      The Democrats keep switching the narrative when things don’t work out and are failing.
      Can’t keep the narrative of Russians are getting creamed all the time when they keep increasing territory or different institutions that oddly enough, have NEVER been retaken by the (Mainstream Media) Ukraine is winning.
      How’s that possible?
      Two other huge events have occurred as well…
      China is replacing they’re currency for EURO and US Dollar at the Russian Banks.
      And Saudi Arabian oil is building a huge fuel refinery in China.

      What not reporting on the mainstream media?

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        PeterS

        What’s not reporting on the MSM? The plan by Ukraine is to win the war with Russia by treating men, women and children in Donbas less than animals, and murdering them. They have been doing that for over a decade but the MSM never touched that bit of important real news. Both sides are using innocent men, women and children like pawns in a war game. The West should be just as angry at Ukraine as it is against Russia, if not more so. By picking Ukraine the West have shown they are no better than Russia and China, some would say worse but that’s splitting hairs.

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      Fuel Filter

      Lay in some iodine pills for your medicine cabinet. Cheaper than dirt.

      Just in case….

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      Ronin

      For the Illuminati, just collateral damage.

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    • #

      The article title says “on top of everything else” so this article acknowledges this fact-

      concern for the millions or even 100’s of millions of people that would be instantly incinerated

      and then focuses on the climate aftermath. That is the subject it is examining. Do you think that because nuclear war has immediate and horrific outcomes that other aspects can’t be discussed? How do you cope day to day with complexity?

      01

      • #

        The emphasis of the article is what’s concerning, especially given how corruptly distorted the IPCC’s fake science really is.

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        • #

          ? By emphasis you mean topic? Decades ago Carl Sagan talked about a nuclear winter. He knew that nuclear war had terrible immediate consequences but it didn’t stop him considering what happens next. Why should it?

          PS… the article did show concern, so you were wrong there. To repeat – it was not about the immediate consequences. This whole post is pure whataboutism.

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          • #

            By emphasis, I mean elevating the concern about the climate to the level of a real catastrophe like nuclear annihilation. It’s all just BS to falsely elevate concern about the fake climate catastrophe the IPCC claims CO2 emission will cause.

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              Rubbish. Did you read anything other than the headline? Nothing is being elevated.

              According to you nothing can be written about anything other than the most pressing thing. Look at it another way. Why would you write an article about nuclear bombs killing people and damaging stuff? What would it be about? It would be about the bleeding obvious is what it would be about.

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                paul courtney

                Mr. Aye: You’re right, the article does mention nuclear annihilation in passing. And it doesn’t downplay the immediate annihilation in the least to compare it to a 1.5c rise in temp down the road. Certainly we should not let incineration distract us from the long term political issues.

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              • #

                Any concern for the climate impact of nuclear annihilation has no legitimate redeeming value and is nothing but a dog whistle.

                Instead, it should cover the many leadership failures that led to this possibility, including the dangerously insane push for green energy and the abandonment of Afghanistan.

                Wars tend to start and expand owing to stupid mistakes driven by political concerns and America under Biden’s inept leadership, both as President and Vice President, has made far too many and is likely to suffer through many more.

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    Penguinite

    In the event of a nuclear war, even a small one, the last thing and I mean THE last thing we’ll be worried about will be our climate! Or wuflu and any of it variations on a theme.

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      PeterS

      Western governments are not really concerned about climate change, only pretending to be. Their plan is to instigate their version of a NWO, and if necessary take out Russia in the process . We have mad people in control, and that’s the real threat to mankind.

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        GreatAuntJanet

        Mad, bad, stupid – or a mixture of all three.

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          Kalm Keith

          They’ve all been so busy that I bet Scomo has already forgotten that he signed the cheque to draw AUD $444 millions from consolidated revenue for the Great Big Barrier Reef Foundation and coral care recovery fund.

          Yes, Mad, Bad, Stupid plus greedy and nepotic.

          The results of their efforts of the last fifty years has been devastating for our once great nation of Australia.

          KK

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    • #

      True… and? But the article was not about what you would be worried about during a nuclear attack.

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    farmerbraun

    ” “And it would be worse for the climate than any energy policy that Donald Trump ever proposed.””

    Worse than Trump?
    I mean , . . like is that even , like , you know possible ?

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    PeterS

    Threat of nuclear war is real but I doubt it will go beyond a limited exchange knocking out a few cities in Europe and Middle East. What really concerns me is the real cause of the troubles in Ukraine.

    Are we seeing a 4th Reich rising up? I hope not but the seeds for one may have already been laid in Ukraine many years ago and it appears the West has been fertilising and watering it for years. I am not pro-Russian but what I can see from this video, which appears to depict the facts backed up by evidence better than any Western media has done so far, Ukraine officials and Western leaders have a lot of questions that ought to be answered but sadly will be lost in the fog of war. I wish this video is all fake but it’s hard to dismiss it outright when the evidence presented ought not be brushed under the carpet so easily. I do study history at times but a lot of the historical documentation in this video is new to me so I can’t make a proper assessment of its authenticity at this time. One thing is certainly true, the Minsk agreements of 2014, which were supposed to end the civil war between the main part of Ukraine in the West and the breakaway Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republic, which are pro-Russian and much hated by the Ukrainians. The agreements were not worth the paper they were written on and civil war still raged on for many years. Then we end up where we are today with Russia entering the scene to protect the breakaway regions and try to bring down the Ukrainian establishment. Of course, there’s much more to it all but the political and cultural aspects alone are complex enough to deserve a proper study to cut through the deceptions undoubtedly being played out on all sides. For example, why didn’t Russia tell all the people in the breakaway regions to leave years ago when they were issued Russian passports, and allow Ukraine proper to take over the land? Many did escape to Russia but many also stayed. Why? That’s where it becomes more complex and won’t even attempt to answer that question for now.

    One illuminating aspect of all this is the background of the current leader of Ukraine, Zelensky. He was a comedian and promoted anti-Russian and anti-Jewish sentiment the likes we never seen since the second world war. Hence the possibility of a limited nuclear war. Jump to 18:00-20:11 to see what I mean. It’s an eye opener and every Westerner ought to see it and weep, and every MSM outlet ought to play it for all to see.

    Even if only half of this video is true, the West ought to do us all a favour and join Russia to clean out Zelensky and keep Ukraine as an independent nation but of course that’s not going to happen as the West has its own sinister agenda to establish a NWO though the Great Reset by incorporating climate change and other devious and fake policies, and in the process try to cripple Russia. What the West has taken into account properly is that China will side with Russia and most likely block the West’s plan. Perhaps they will all come to some agreement one day and form a unified NWO once the dust settles.

    To fully understand the current situation in Ukraine

    [Peter. Please keep comments to 200-400 words. – Jo]

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      PeterS

      Jo, don’t you mean 600-700? You allowed others to go that far. 🙂

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      Kalm Keith

      Interesting link.

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      PeterS,

      I wonder which planet you are on because your comments about planet Earth have no possible relationship to reality.

      You suggest Ukraine is “a 4th Reich rising up”.
      In reality, having annexed Crimea and attempted to take over the Eastern parts of Ukraine, Putin has launched a full-scale and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine claiming that Ukraine “is not a real country with a right to exist”. Contrary to your asserrtions, under the leadership of President Zelensky the Ukrainian people have been fighting a heroic defence of their country while the invaders are bombing their homes, hospitals and schools.

      President Zelensky of Ukraine has led the heroic resistance to the invasion and your suggestion that he “promoted … anti-Jewish sentiment” is risible because he is a jew!.

      [snip] I know you don’t identify yourself: I, too, would be ashamed to put my name to egregious posts such as yours.

      Richard

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    Ronin

    Climate, I would think you’d have bigger problems than that.

    50

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    Peter Fitzroy

    Either a nuclear war will alter atmospheric physics or it won’t. Either it will be short lived (like a volcanic eruption) or it won’t. Either these effects will immiserate populations worldwide or the won’t.

    Trivialising the issue is not a logical response

    229

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      Honk R Smith

      Wow, altering physics.
      Captain Kirk was right.
      We cold also expect a whole new genre of Godzilla movies.

      170

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      TedM

      Isn’t trivialising exactly what you have just done Peter.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        ted(m and f)
        Not trivialising, asking that the issue be considered on available evidence. we know that volcanic eruptions will alter the physical composition of the atmosphere causing cooling in the short term. We can chart the effect of those volcanic eruptions on communities.
        We can calculate the amount of energy release necessary to do the same, using bombs.
        Ergo we have a real risk.
        Not taking it seriously is not logical

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          TdeF

          Yes, if someone could threaten a city with one or more major volcanic explosions within 20 minutes, that would be comparable.

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          el+gordo

          The question is how many explosions all at once would bring on a nuclear winter. We could go back to the 1950s and get a glimpse of weather anomalies during the testing period.

          With total unleash there is a distinct possibility of becoming snowball earth.

          30

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            TdeF

            And who would be left to write that story? And with what?

            20

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              el+gordo

              Assuming a limited exchange in the NH, warming the stratosphere, it could take up to 15 years to settle down. The good news is that the SH should escape the worst of it.

              11

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            Peter Fitzroy

            according to wikipedia it would need to be the entire world arsenal

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            Peter Fitzroy

            modded, must be the word wikipedia

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            Bruce

            The Nuclear winter caper also presupposes “ground-burst” Nukes.

            The Hiroshima bomb was detonated SIX THOUSAND feet above ground level. The instantaneous radiation flash was immediately followed by a massive spherical shock-wave that did most of the structural damage. Hiroshima was on the target list because of its access to the ocean (significant port), being a major rail-head and for its engineering facilities. It was not some innocent, sleepy village.

            The “nuclear winter” thing is straight out of the old soviet fronts like the CND and its associated operations around the globe.

            About twenty five years ago I met an actual bomb survivor. An Australian POW who was labouring on the docks on the fateful day. Fortunately for him, he was deep in the hold of the ship when things go very bright and then very loud.

            He and a mixed bag of prisoners went up on deck to see what was happening ans figured that something big had happened.
            A twist in this tale was that among troops who had once been accountants, barbers, teachers, was a number of railway types. The Japanese rail system was very-much based on British practice, so, these characters simply took over from where the vanished locals had left off and started moving people and food around as best they could. They were still doing this when the Allied occupation forces showed up en masse, with the harbour being filled with ships from the “Grey Funnel Line”.

            Before his internment in Japan, this bloke, a barber by trade, had survived being caught on Timor, worked the Burma-Thailand railway, had hie unmarked and un-escorted POW transport ship torpedoed and sunk by a US Navy submarine, been rescued by a passing Japanese destroyer, to land in a POW camp in Japan. When he returned to Queensland, he went straight back to the tonsorial trade, married his very musical childhood sweetheart and died quietly in his late eighties. Not quite the archetypal “soi-boi”.

            The amount of dust in the upper atmosphere required to do the “nuclear winter” thing is immense. It HAS happened, but not from ground-burst nukes. Twice in the last quarter millennium; both times linked to the Indonesian volcanoes; Krakatau (1883) and Tambora (1815).

            BOTH of these eruptions threw millions of tonnes of very fine particles of glassy, volcanic ash to very high altitudes. Because neither was a instant event, this went on for weeks before a “Big Bang”. Look up “the year without Summer” in the Northern hemisphere, for starters. Another way to get a sparkly sky is the sudden arrival of a comet or decent-sized Meteor.. You could ask a woolly mammoth, but they are all dead.

            I am growing very tired of the lies and distortions of the “concerned citizens”, massively promoted and repeated by the LSM (Lame Stream Megalomaniacs). Nothing but “conditioning” all the way down. We are all expected to drool at the sound of the bell.

            “How many lights do you see, Captain?”

            Make Orwell fiction again!

            This mornings “news” on the ABCess, was centered around the ranting over another “concerned” group about the imminent catastrophe of “Klimate change” and, as usual bagging the “politicians” for their lack of action. This is of a piece withe steady ramping up of airing the “opinions” of miserable bastards about the role of the ADF in all of this. Once again, The ADF members are NOT armed social workers. Their PRIMARY role is to kill people and break things in the physical pursuance of government policy. They are LEGALLY not at the beck and call of every man and his dog.

            As per the dichotomy of the dangers of “nuclear winter”, so the schizoid nature of Klimate change: Burn, Freeze, whatever? It is the social engineering “Solution” that is important. Eggs, omelettes, and all that.

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              Peter Fitzroy

              what a load

              read the link

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                el+gordo

                I found this.

                ‘There is some doubt as to when the Soviet Union began modelling fires and the atmospheric effects of nuclear war. Former Soviet intelligence officer Sergei Tretyakov claimed that, under the directions of Yuri Andropov, the KGB invented the concept of “nuclear winter” in order to stop the deployment of NATO Pershing II missiles.

                ‘They are said to have distributed to peace groups, the environmental movement and the journal Ambio disinformation based on a faked “doomsday report” by the Soviet Academy of Sciences by Georgii Golitsyn, Nikita Moiseyev and Vladimir Alexandrov concerning the climatic effects of nuclear war.’

                40

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              Ted1

              Thanks Bruce. A good one!

              20

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      TdeF

      Isn’t that what you are doing?

      90

  • #
    Murray Shaw

    To quote Klaus Schwartz, re the NWO, (after the Nuclear War)you will own nothing and you will be happy.
    Referring to the fact that you are still alive, I guess.
    Just when you think it cannot get any worse, it will. Was that not Murphys Law?

    170

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    Old Cocky

    Wasn’t the Nuclear Winter hypothesis quietly abandoned after the First Gulf War?

    35

    • #
      Ed Zuiderwijk

      Indeed. Sadam’s threat of plunging the planet into nuclear winter by burning a few hundred oil wells in Kuwait turned out a damp squib. The hysterical warnings by the self-appointed pundits were so far removed from reality that it was comical.

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    Old Goat

    There are no winners in a nuclear war. Even the survivors are losers. We have avoided this so far , but the elites are pushing us toward it again . Things in the near future are going to be difficult but this would make survival a brutal struggle. I just hope that sanity returns sooner rather than later….

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      Yonniestone

      How is this tabloid driven, from the Georgia guidestones to the UN’s own websites to current WEF statements this is not a hidden fact or speculation.

      I’ve gone from media censorship to being censored for mentioning them on a pro free speech platform.

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    Fuel Filter

    Don’t know how you feel/think re this Ukraine thing, but here’s my take as an American born in 1951.

    Let’s try to put it in Australian terms. Let’s say, China parks a number of nuclear submarines and other warships 90 miles off your northern shores. (I mean a lot more than you guys already have. )Let’s go one step further and say that many more of those vessels also traveled to your South East Coast and did the same.

    When Nikita Khrushchev did this to us, President Kennedy did what he had to do. (And, no, I’m not really a fan). We had Russian nukes parked 90 miles off the shores of Florida in Cuba. With the capability of destroying the entire Eastern Seaboard. They also easily had the range to take out some of our nuclear silos in middle America at the very least. He did everything possible to get rid of them and finally came to a solution that didn’t involve war. 

    (Had to take our missies out of Turkey.  Beginning to see the connection? Didn’t want to get NATO involved.)

    But he was ready to hit them hard if that didn’t work. Those missiles were direct challenge to our sovereignty and our safety. And he had virtually the entire American population behind him. He finally also sent our warships and set up a blockade of the entire island.

    (Although he did massively F up the Bay of Pigs.  If he had fulfilled his promises to the fighting forces against Castro he wouldn’t have gotten us into this mess in the first place.)

    Now, let’s move on to the Urkraine situation. The last thing Russia wants is NATO right on its border. That is a direct threat to Russia. And Russia has been saying so for decades now. Out loud to any and everyone.

    So, there’s your comparison. It’s reads as simplistic, I know, but that’s only because I have thought and thought this thru, and that’s what it boils down to.

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      R.B

      Its being lost in all the propaganda that Biden has been behind pushing Ukraine to take back the resource rich Dombass region. A better analogy is the Bay of Pigs. Castro was a grub but it wasn’t worth a fight with the USSR. The majority of Cubans didn’t want to fight.

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        Fuel Filter

        “The majority of Cubans didn’t want to fight.”

        That’s patent BS.

        It was a Communist take-over that sold their Horse-S and killed with Che as the hammer. The entire population was terrorized into “Living on their Knees rather than dying on their feet.”

        That’s what Commies do. (And I’ve already alluded to the Bay of Pigs, just in case you didn’t get that…)

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          R.B

          Not wanting to fight is different to wanting to be ruled by a dictator, and a lot would have decided much later that Castro was a prick. The British warned the US that anti-Castro movement in Cuba was not strong at the time. What evidence do you have for your assertion that it it was patent BS. Strong, is it?

          14

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      NuThink

      Russia was quite happy for the Murmansk Arctic Convoys carrying war materiel to them from the West during WW2.

      https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2017/04/03/the-murmansk-run-running-the-gauntlet-of-wwiis-arctic-convoys/

      41 Murmansk Run Convoys, $18 Billion in Cargo
      Between 1941 and 1945, a total of 41 convoys made the Murmansk Run carrying an estimated $18 billion in cargo from the United States, Great Britain, and Canada. Among the millions of tons of supplies were an estimated 12,206 aircraft, 12,755 tanks, 51,503 jeeps, 300,000 trucks, 1,181 locomotives, 11,155 flatcars, 135,638 rifles and machine guns, 473 million shells, 2.67 million tons of fuel, and 15 million pairs of boots.

      A few years ago saw an interview where the Russian interviewee was questioned about why all the meteriel help from the West during WW2 was now written out of Russian History School Books. So to the modern Russians none of this help happened.

      60

    • #

      How does absorbing Ukraine into a new Soviet empire reduce the number of Putin’s NATO neighbors?

      41

      • #
        KP

        He wants a neutral Ukraine, one without the Yanks running it and putting ‘NATO’ missiles in there. One without nuclear weapons at all.

        He’s been very clear about it, although you might not realise that from the mainstream media. He doesn’t want to run it as part of Russia, it will cost too much to fix after he’s finished!

        That said, “The West” has been in there for a decade and done absolutely nothing to improve things for the average Ukie. People like the Bidens have stripped it bare and left it as the second poorest country in Europe.

        70

        • #
          Ed Zuiderwijk

          But even if Ukraine would be a member of nato that would not mean ‘missiles’ being stationed there. The Baltic states are nato members and had no offensive weapons stationed there at all. The irony of Putin’s actions is that likely there will now be missiles stationed much closer to Russia than before. Therefore the whole argument is just mute, pure gaslighting to point to a problem that wasn’t there.

          The Budapest agreement where Ukraine gave up its soviet legacy of nukes, because it did not intend to threaten anyone, was accompanied by territorial guarantees by both Russia and the US. Russia violated that agreement 8 years ago. And the US would be totally justified to assume its role as guarantor. If only there were some spine in the WH.

          31

  • #
    Richard C (NZ)

    >”A 2007 study estimated that if 100 small nuclear weapons were detonated, … ”

    Negligible. Skeptical Science’s widget puts some perspective on the climate crisis:

    Our climate has accumulated
    3,107,470,301
    Hiroshima atomic bombs
    of heat since 1998

    And counting …

    70

  • #
    John

    Just one question …

    what would a massive dust cloud in the atmosphere do to the output of solar panels?

    Heck, come to think of it, what would a large fire nearby, or even a dust storm, do to an individual installation of such panels?

    110

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    I agree Ed.
    Red thumb was my error.
    But I do believe that clmate change is a non existent threat.
    A world nuclear war is a real threat to our civilization . .

    120

  • #
    philemon

    Does anyone still read The Atlantic, at least since the Neo-Cons colonised it when they brought in David Frum as editor? But at least they’re reminding their readers, who may have forgotten, that a nuclear war is a Bad Thing.

    So maybe there were a few hundred crazy loons calling for a no-fly zone over Ukraine, but in this case I think the Pentagon has the last word. I think people in the Pentagon actually want to live long enough to collect their pensions.

    90

  • #
    TdeF

    It shows how far the Climate brainwashing has gone when nuclear war is seen as less of a threat.

    One is total destruction of the planet and the other is perhaps +2C warmer in summer because warmer in winter does not matter. And if the world was going to flood suddenly, it has taken 150 years of the hockey stick to do what exactly?

    160

  • #

    Fortunately, this time the US military is not on board with the US Pollies and demented President. They are resisting going to war over the Ukraine. It is the corrupt Pollies, CIA, Deep State, etc., who are the problem today…………………..

    Don’t touch the red button unless the other side does it first in which case there is really no option.

    90

  • #
    TdeF

    And which specific group of people is aghast at +2C in summer? Surely not the Scots or the Swedes or the Canadians or the Russians? Where exactly is the threat to humanity which is comparable to a 100Megaton bomb on London?

    130

  • #
    TdeF

    I can only conclude that true believers in world ending Climate Change have come from the very shallow end of the gene pool.

    180

  • #
    Neville

    Andy May compares AR6 to AR5 and finds that their so called models are totally clueless and have been forever.
    Here’s his conclusions and the link. Yet these delusional donkeys want the OECD countries to waste endless TRILLIONS of $ for decades and for SFA MEASURABLE change?

    “Conclusions”

    “The differences strongly suggest that the models are overestimating the importance of greenhouse gases in global warming and missing important natural influences. Not surprising since the models assume that natural forces are not contributing to recent warming. Responsible modelers would recognize they are on the wrong track and abandon the Manabe and Weatherald model framework and look elsewhere. Someone once said:

    “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

    Einstein perhaps, or someone else, regardless, it is true.
    One would think after six major reports, and several minor reports, all clearly wrong in the critical tropics, the IPCC would fix the problem. But, even after all this work, they can’t. Perhaps the basic framework and assumptions they are using are wrong? Is it unreasonable to say that? I don’t think so.

    One hint given in the Mitchell papers stands out. The dominant cooling mechanism in the tropics is convection, this is due to the high absolute humidity there. The tropics receives more solar radiation than it radiates to space, convection carries the excess energy toward the poles. Perhaps convection is modeled incorrectly in the models? Perhaps convective heat transport from the tropics to the poles is driving climate change and being overlooked? Just a thought.

    The bulk of this post is an excerpt from my latest book, The Great Climate Debate: Karoly v Happer”.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/03/13/comparing-ar5-to-ar6/

    90

  • #
    RobB

    The effects of the nuclear blast from small nuclear weapons are discussed here:

    https://remm.hhs.gov/PlanningGuidanceNuclearDetonation.pdf

    A small nuclear weapon of 10kT TNT yield will flatten an area with a radius of one mile. This is very small compared to the size of your average suburban sprawl. Whether you would get a firestorm in a city made of glass and concrete compared to the wooden cities of Hamburg and Tokyo (which were bombed with incendiaries such as napalm) is completely debatable.

    One hundred 15kT nuclear weapons amount to 1.5MT. Plenty of nuclear weapons tests had yields far higher than 1.5MT – the biggest, Tsar Bomba, had a yield of 50MT.

    Or, to compare to volcanoes, the Hunga-Tonga and Mt St Helens volcanoes were estimated to yield around 10 to 20 MT, while Krakatoa, a truly climate changing volcano, was 200MT.

    If small 100 nukes went off in 100 modern cities, you would have to be far more concerned about human casualties than climate change.

    80

    • #
      Ted1

      The biggest worry would be who can get the disabled infrastructure working again.

      e.g. The time to design a system to combine the mobile phone and Flynn of the Inland’s pedal wireless might be now.

      10

  • #
    Neville

    Here’s another new study that compares the Climate impacts of Coal and Gas and you may be very surprised at their conclusions.
    So why would anyone BELIEVE anything from the delusional loonies at Glasgow COP 26?

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/03/12/schernikau-smith-climate-impacts-of-fossil-fuels/

    80

  • #
    PeterS

    This is how wars can start by accident. A person attacks the wrong person. Let’s hope this funny episode isn’t repeated on the nuclear stage.

    Indian TV Ukraine War Debate Goes Off The Rails

    40

  • #
    Perplexed of Brisbane

    How many is ‘minor’? There have been over 2000 nuclear detonations since Trinity. Of course, not all in a 30 minute period but still.

    50

    • #
      el+gordo

      Yeah, but even a limited exchange could tip the balance, this from wiki.

      ‘A “nuclear summer” is a hypothesized scenario in which, after a nuclear winter caused by aerosols inserted into the atmosphere that would prevent sunlight from reaching lower levels or the surface, has abated, a greenhouse effect then occurs due to carbon dioxide released by combustion and methane released from the decay of the organic matter and methane from dead organic matter and corpses that froze during the nuclear winter.’

      10

    • #

      Not 2000 above ground

      00

  • #
    TdeF

    A single hydrogen bomb on New York would kill more people that WWII in an instant. I think we will take our chances with rapidly rising sea levels.

    120

    • #
      TdeF

      Surely this is just a really bad joke?

      Robinson Myer
      Staff Writer The Atlantic

      Mar 2018 – Present 4 years 1 month. Washington D.C. Metro Area
      Covering climate change, energy, the coronavirus, and (occasionally) technology.

      He has a BA in music but in the new post modernist world, that makes him qualified because
      facts don’t matter and science is a matter of opinion.

      100

    • #
      RobB

      It would be bad, but it wouldnt be as bad as all WW2: drop a 1MT bomb on New York or your ‘favourite’ city and see for yourself:

      https://nukemap.org/nukemap/

      00

      • #
        TdeF

        These are tiny! And not Hydrogen bombs. An ICBM is not a cruise missile. Now multiple the power x1000. Try La Bomba.

        20

        • #
          TdeF

          The New York metropolitan area is the most populous in the United States, as defined by both the Metropolitan Statistical Area (20.1 million residents in 2020) and the Combined Statistical Area (23.6 million residents in 2020)

          20

        • #
          RobB

          1MT = 1000 kT Enter 1000 in the second field for a thermonuclear weapon. Most nuclear warheads these days are less than 1000kT, as they are more accurate than in the past.

          20

      • #
        R.B

        Slightly off topic. The left leaning media has reported that the NSW SES decided to twice turn down ADF assistance, delaying the rescue of people in the Lismore floods. No apology for trying to demonise the Liberal government and happy for the SES to use the excuse that it was an unprecedented weather event. The flooding might have been, but not the weather.
        Tuncester, nearby, had 861 for Feb then 128 mm on the first of March. They had nearly 500 mm in two days after 220 mm earlier in the week.

        Lismore City Centre (closed 2003) in 1954 had 480 mm on the 20th and 21st of Feb after 200 mm fell earlier in the month, followed by only another 50 mm, Totalling just under 800 mm for the 2 months, most in a 1 month period.

        In 1893, there was almost continuous rain for the first 24 days that totalled just under 800 mm. There was 178 mm on the 22nd of January to start things off. So 1 m of rain in a little over a month. 1890 saw 1.3 m of rain in the first 3 months. 1892 saw over 1 m of rainfall in march and April, 800 mm of that in a period of one month.

        1974 had 985 mm in March and April but there is a day between it raining 246 mm and 328 mm that was not recorded.

        So while the exact nature of this weather event might have been unprecedented, weather events that were similar happened a few times previously, 3 in a four year period in the 19th C. It might be considered a one in a hundred year event if you ignore the others because 10% less rain fell in a certain period (or 10% less was recorded!). Realistically, such rainfall appears to happen five times every 100 years, just not regularly every 20 years.

        60

    • #
      Leo G

      A single hydrogen bomb on New York would kill more people that WWII in an instant.

      It would require two MIRVs with a total of 20 warheads each of 800Kton yield to blanket the 1224 sq km area of New York City and kill the majority of its 8.8 million inhabitants.
      WW2 killed about 80 million people.
      A single 1Mt blast could conceivably have a death toll comparable to Americans killed in WW2 (about 420,000).

      10

    • #
      Ted1

      A single hydrogen bomb would not only kill a lot of people, it would cripple the electricity and telephone networks and industry in general over a wide area.

      10

    • #

      (WW2 killed) An estimated total of 70–85 million people perished, or about 3% of the 2.3 billion (est.) people on Earth in 1940. Deaths directly caused by the war (including military and civilian fatalities) are estimated at 50–56 million, with an additional estimated 19–28 million deaths from war-related disease and famine.

      and

      The New York metropolitan area is the most populous in the United States, as defined by both the Metropolitan Statistical Area (20.1 million residents in 2020) and the Combined Statistical Area (23.6 million residents in 2020). The metropolitan area is home to approximately 6% of the United States’ population.

      00

      • #
        Leo G

        The New York metropolitan area .. as defined by both the Metropolitan Statistical Area (20.1 million residents in 2020) and the Combined Statistical Area (23.6 million residents in 2020).

        The New York Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) covers 17,405 square kilometre and the Combined Statistical Area (CSA) covers 34,493 square kilometre.

        00

  • #
    Honk R Smith

    There were the events of August 6th and 9th, 1945.
    UN is founded to avoid recurrence.
    NATO formed to counter Soviet tanks.
    Cold War (depending on where you where).
    1988 James Hansen inven… I mean, teaches us about Global Warming.
    1989 – 1991ish Soviets de-Soviet.
    Tanks (not very good ones) de-organize and Warsaw Pact gradually dissipates.
    NATO grows.
    UN/EU/WEF elope.
    Married in Davos.
    Three way modern marriage becomes more concerned with Climate Change.
    Russians not.

    Well the climate certainly changed, but not the one they were paying attention to.

    120

    • #
      TdeF

      James Hansen found a new job predicting that Earth would become the new Venus, overheated by CO2, his ultra narrow speciality at NASA. It’s a living. Some people just get lucky.

      60

    • #
      RoHa

      You forgot to mention that the Warsaw Pact was formed after, and as a response to, NATO.

      40

  • #
    TdeF

    I am appalled that anyone can suggest that Nuclear war is survivable, not all that bad and preferable to Climate Change. My gabber is flastered. The death toll from the alleged Climate Change floods in NSW and QLD is now at 22. These are not comparable to a nuclear missile on Sydney.

    80

    • #
      TdeF

      Even the deaths from the poor man’s weapon of mass destruction, the Chinese made Wuhan Flu, is over 6 million people. And still the concern of John Kerry, airhead, head of hair extraordinaire, is Climate Change. How many have died from Climate Change?

      70

    • #
      Ronin

      “The death toll from the alleged Climate Change floods in NSW and QLD is now at 22.”

      Most of those deaths were from stupidity, at least most of the QLD ones were.

      61

  • #
    PeterS

    Well according to the dooms day clock it’s 100 seconds to midnight. The equivalent dooms day clock due to climate change is stuck at 10 years. It’s clear climate change is as relevant to us as it the climate on Mars. Yet our governments are more concerned about climate change than they are about a possible war with Russia and China. Who elected these fools? I didn’t.

    110

  • #
    Dave in the States

    Just shows that climate faithful are so all in in their delusions. They still can’t see after all which has recently happened that have been played and are still being played.

    50

  • #
    OldOzzie

    GLOBAL WARMING, QUANTIFIED

    The Left uses global warming hysteria as a pretext to bring about its desired “fundamental transformation” of Western society. Usually lost in the blizzard of dire predictions is hard data about how much the Earth has actually warmed, whether due to CO2 or not. In this regard, the only data that are global, reliable and transparent are the tropospheric satellite measurements that are maintained by the University of Alabama Huntsville.

    The satellite data only go back to 1979, but that is now getting to be a considerable length of time, 42 years. This graph from Dr. Roy Spencer’s web site tracks the global average lower tropospheric temperature anomaly on a running, centered 13-month average basis.

    Over the 42-year period, global average temperature has increased at a rate of 0.13 degree Centigrade per decade. At that rate, it would take 80 years for average temperature to rise one degree. That is much less than the forecasts produced by alarmist climate models.

    80

    • #
      TdeF

      And how much difference would 1C make to your life? It is not detectable without modern inventions like the thermometer. For some reason people believe crops will fail and the seas will rise and drown humanity. I have no idea why they believe it when no one can even tell you the temperature without a thermometer or the internet.

      20

  • #
    PeterS

    If anyone bothers to study the events leading up to the Minsk agreements of 2014, and the subsequent events leading up to the recent Russian invasion of Ukraine, a completely different view is presented that goes against the narrative by the MSM. Putin is no Mr nice guy but he is only acting in a way to protect the interests of the Russian people against what he perceives are the threatening intentions of the West, be they real or not. It’s very likely he has overstepped the mark but it’s understandable given the circumstances surrounding what has been happening in Ukraine for well over a decade. If one ignores all that has happened over the past decade or so in Ukraine, as many have done one would of course say that Putin is an evil monster. However, when one does take into account all that has happened over that period, it’s not so simple as that. It still amazes me how so many still trust the MSM for seeking the truth when time and time again the MSM have been proven to be anything but truth tellers. IMHO, there will be no nuclear war as a direct result of the conflict in Ukraine.

    71

    • #
      RoHa

      Putin no doubt noticed

      (1) the expansion of NATO (contrary to the promises given to Gorbachev)
      (2) NATO’s war on Yugoslavia
      (3) NATO/NATO member (mostly USA) attacks on Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.

      and decided that NATO minght not be as innocent an organization as he had been told.

      110

      • #
        PeterS

        Also don’t forget Europe, US and the rest of the West has been on the decline ever since the net zero emissions agenda kicked off. Meanwhile Russia has grown in strength mostly due to fossil fuel exports. That allows Putin to do things that could not be possible years ago. Large nations only ever became powerful due to fossil fuels. Without them they quickly decline. Given time and if nothing changes, Russia and China will not need to use nukes to win a war with the West. The West will simply collapse on its own accord. Only time will tell if Westerners wake up to make governments alter course.

        60

        • #
          KP

          “Given time …The West will simply collapse on its own accord.”

          A decade according to Armstrong Economics. Their predictions see the US$ failing as the West collapses into disorder and the ascent of China in the early 2030s.

          They don’t see any thing or any changes preventing it from happening, our Empire has had its time in the sun, we are past maturity and corrupt both morally and economically.

          …should be an interesting ride!

          20

  • #
    RoHa

    Those climate fanatics won’t let us have any fun.

    50

    • #
      Annie

      Because they are anti-human RoHa.

      40

    • #
      OldOzzie

      I don’t know – some Canberra Bureaucrats seem to be having fun

      Wild logo for Prime Minister and Cabinet’s ‘Women’s Network’ roasted on social media

      The logo for the Prime Minister and Cabinet’s new “Women’s Network” – which is intended to promote gender equality – has been roasted online.

      The logo for the Prime Minister and Cabinet’s (PM&C) new “Women’s Network” – which is intended to promote gender equality – has instead been roasted online for its phallic appearance.

      A description for the Network says that it “champions equal opportunity on behalf of its members and is an inclusive, volunteer-based organisation built by members, for members”.

      “The Women’s Network assists PM&C and is enabling cultural change aspirations expressed in the Department’s 100-1000 day plan for transformational change by helping implement PM&C’s Gender Equality Action Plan and Embracing Inclusion and Diversity Program,” the description continues.

      “The Women’s Employee Network promotes gender equality and supports members to succeed in their personal professional lives. The network priorities are founded on driving cultural change and encouraging men to drive this cultural change, particularly in areas where men can make a significant contribution.

      “The network promotes women’s career success by facilitating opportunities for learning, networking and career mobility and encouraging flexible approaches to work.”

      21

      • #
        Ronin

        It’s something you’d expect to see drawn on a toilet wall.

        30

      • #
        PeterS

        Have they sorted out yet what is woman? Thee appears to be a lot of confusion in certain areas.

        40

      • #
        Honk R Smith

        Dang Old, I was trying to drink my coffee.

        20

      • #
        Hanrahan

        When I see women stay working on the tools after they finish the apprenticeship that a boy was supposed to get, I’ll believe in equality.

        Women don’t want equality for hard, dirty, dangerous jobs, just the corner office.

        50

      • #
        TdeF

        Dickheads? Our taxes at work.

        20

        • #
          TdeF

          If that’s empowerment for women, it looks remarkably like a strapon, which cannot be unintentional. The symbol of female domination. And you would expect very deliberately offensive.

          20

  • #
    Betty Luks

    Jo,

    The 1942 words by Clifford Hugh Douglas in “The Big Idea” sprang to mind after watching Infowars’ report: “What the Hell is Really Going on in Ukraine?” narrated by Mindy Robinson.

    Plus, US Navy veteran and independent journalist Patrick Lancaster also exposes the truth of the 8-year Ukraine civil leading up to the current crisis in the region with Russia:
    https://www.infowars.com/posts/what-the-hell-is-really-going-on-in-ukraine/

    Douglas wrote:
    “A quarrel between individuals proceeds from something inside them. A modern war is a collective prize fight, promoted by outsiders for the benefit of themselves and the destruction of the contestants, who would much prefer not to be involved, and would not be, if they were not “organised”.

    “Organisation is, in fact, magic. It is the evocation of an elemental force, and it is much easier to evoke elemental forces than it is to control them or lay them.”

    If the promoters have their way, as we fry, we can all join in singing:
    Oh! What a lovely war!

    40

  • #
    SimonB

    Thank god for celebrity ‘culture’! Can you imagine how stupid the world would become if we didn’t parse society through the wisdom of the trailer park-to-clifftop mansion elites?
    What next, political decisions from individuals who’ve never had a job, just gone from indoctrination 101 to a safe seat?
    Oh wait……!

    20

  • #
    Lance

    Climate Change / Global Warming is the basis of idiotic beliefs that taxation and national economic suicide are tools of liberation.

    Only idiots think that politicians can tax the world into liberty. Nothing of the climate/warmist sphere has ever happened in 100 years.

    The entirety of AGW is a pretext to enable politicians to gain power, redistribute wealth, take social and economic control over otherwise free people. The idea of a digital economy is exactly that and more.

    Nuclear war is a humanity problem. It is nothing to joke about, as it is an irreversible action. People can change their politics. People cannot change the weather or tax themselves into changing climate.

    Anyone who dislikes slavery ought oppose all and any attempts to give Government powers to overtake citizens lives with pretextual excuses of efficiency or assistance. Every wolf would like the sheep to be conformists and cowards.

    The mere fact that anyone is seriously discussing these psychotic and political phobias is illustration that the wrong people have too much power over their masters, the actual people who populate their nations.

    90

    • #
      PeterS

      One of the most strongest forces in play is the MSM who are nefariously affecting the way people perceive the world. Those who rely solely on the MSM for their information are so deluded and their minds poisoned so badly it’s starting to become dangerous for the rest of us to speak out the truth.

      50

      • #
        Hanrahan

        It can’t be just NSM. Neither of my boys have ever read a newspaper [even the one who spends time in airports] nor watch any TV, be it on the tube or on the web.

        Both roll their eyes at Dad’s quaint opinions. Both believe in the jab 100% and believe I am not doing the right thing by their mother by not getting jabbed.

        40

  • #
    Darcy

    The one line in the atlantic article I agree with is the last one.

    “Solving climate change is a luxury of a planet at peace with itself.”

    Its a lack of fear of the destruction of life as we know it that is most lacking in the CAGW crowd. Only thrives in comfort and peace.

    20

  • #
    Jonesy

    …A strange game.
    the only winning move is not to play!

    50

  • #
    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    But more importantly, would The Atlantic’s Robinson Meyer heed this directive from the US Government on their website: ready.gov/nuclear-explosion:
    STAY INSIDE
    “Stay inside for 24 hours unless local authorities provide other instructions. Continue to practice social distancing by wearing a mask and by keeping a distance of at least six feet between yourself and people who not part of your household”.

    20

  • #
    yarpos

    “It’s like they believe that putting up a sign saying “Warplane Free” will stop the warplanes.”

    Sure , they think having “gun free zones” stops gun violence, rather than impeding self defence, so why not? Just magical leftist thinking.

    60

  • #
    Leo G

    Towering clouds would carry more than five megatons of soot and ash from these fires high into the atmosphere.

    A volcanic eruption like the recent Hunga Tonga Hunga Ha’apai volcano (estimated to have been a small VEI-5) ejects more than a cubic kilometre of tephra into the atmosphere, which would be at least 200 times more ash than the total of those climate-changing nuclear fires.

    A very large explosive volcanic eruption like the 1815 Tambora event emits about 100 cubic kilometre of tephra- ie 20,000 times more ash than the hypothesised nuclear fires.

    40

  • #
    Maptram

    “He goes on to say that ocean acidification would get worse, the ozone layer would be destroyed, the world will be fried by extra UV radiation, and people will get skin cancer.”

    If extra UV radiation will reach the earth what about infrared radiation. After all, we are told that the infrared radiation is reflected back to earth by the greenhouse gases thereby warming the planet and causing climate change.

    40

  • #
    b.nice

    Umm.. In the link to “ocean acidification” they say, in “3. Results”

    Globally averaged surface ocean pH increases in response to each of the nuclear conflicts.

    So it gets further away from becoming an acid.

    Their modeled effect partially cancels the modeled effect of CO2 increase.

    30

  • #
    KP

    I’ve just seen this-

    Spriter
    @spriter99880
    ·
    Mar 13
    The Victoria Infectious Diseases Laboratory in Melbourne recorded the import of blood serum from Ukrainian biological weapons laboratories.
    ———————
    https://twitter.com/spriter99880

    So, God knows why the yanks sent them here instead of the USA, but the reasons won’t be good. Everyone in the world is disposable except Americans!

    Who’s going to be the first to drop a vial? “Hey, I wonder what’s in here? ooops!”

    30

  • #

    There is a certain lack of concern for the many millions who would die both initially and as a result of the cooler climate. Could this be due to a general belief that there are too many people on the planet already?

    90

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Kevin:
      Of course, as I am sure you know.
      Based on Malthus’s simplistic graph. Population growth exponential, resources increase arithmetical. Been around for over 200 years and NEVER proven. It was debunked initially – possibly because the author’s motive to excuse his employer’s (East India Co.) indifference to the Bengal famine, one of the worst in India.
      Unfortunately it was adopted by Charles Darwin and by all those who cannot think.
      Henry George 1879 “Both the jay-hawks and the man eat chickens. The more jay-hawks the less chickens, the more men the more chickens”. i.e. man can produce more food.
      Then we had Paul Erhlich with “the population bomb” (1968). He said that by 1975 there would be 2.5 billion people on earth and we couldn’t feed them. We now have 3 times as many and better fed than before.
      That idea appeared in the Club of Rome forecast of coming shortages of material resources. Sort of an up-dated “Oil will run out soon” predictions made every few years; I once tried to locate the original prediction but when I got back to 1862 I found the claim then was a repeat of one earlier. Since “Colonel’ Edwin Drake drilled the first well in Pennsyvania in 1859 it appears that that claim has as much validity as Ehrlich’s.
      And I haven’t touched on the racist view.

      50

  • #
    Ruairi

    A dangerous course for the West,
    Putting no-fly zone to the test,
    Risking nukes is insane,
    In defending Ukraine,
    And for climate and man not the best.

    50

  • #
    Mike+of+NQ

    Trump was the saviour for global warming, he reversed the alarming rate of global warming experienced under the Obama years. Sorry, I’m just attempting to think like a climate catastrophist.

    20

    • #
      PeterS

      Yes Trump when he was POTUS did start asking the right sort of questions about Ukraine but unfortunately didn’t get very far. That may be another reason why he had to be taken out of the picture. The plan by Ukraine is to win the war with Russia by treating men, women and children in Donbas less than animals, and murdering them. They have been doing that for over a decade but the MSM never touched that bit of important real news. Both sides are using innocent men, women and children like pawns in a war game. So, the West should be just as angry at Ukraine as it is against Russia, if not more so. By picking Ukraine the West have shown their true colours, and they are no better than Russia and China, some would say worse but that’s splitting hairs.

      40

    • #
      Ronin

      And he must have been the only US President who didn’t start a war somewhere.

      40

    • #
      David Maddison

      Under the Biden Maladministration, Obama is the Chief Puppeteer of Biden and thus this is Obama’s third term.

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    Angus Black

    All that …and you still haven’t thought about the urgent pronoun issue arising from a nuclear holocaust?

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    David Maddison

    If the “nuclear winter” hypothesis was true, wouldn’t huge forest fires also have a noticeable effect on the climate? Obviously they don’t.

    Anyway, it seems like nuclear winter “modelling” is based on the same bunk as climate “modelling”.

    From Wikipedia:

    The term “nuclear winter” was a neologism coined in 1983 by Richard P. Turco in reference to a one-dimensional computer model created to examine the “nuclear twilight” idea. This model projected that massive quantities of soot and smoke would remain aloft in the air for on the order of years, causing a severe planet-wide drop in temperature. Turco would later distance himself from these extreme conclusions.

    After the failure of the predictions on the effects of the 1991 Kuwait oil fires that were made by the primary team of climatologists that advocate the hypothesis, over a decade passed without any new published papers on the topic.

    And now it seems that like climate “models” the outputs are being adjusted to produce the desired results.

    More recently, the same team of prominent modellers from the 1980s have begun again to publish the outputs of computer models. These newer models produce the same general findings as their old ones, namely that the ignition of 100 firestorms, each comparable in intensity to that observed in Hiroshima in 1945, could produce a “small” nuclear winter.

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    Ronin

    About now seems like the perfect time to start rousting Russia about MH17, why didn’t we think of it sooner….. jeeez.

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    • #
      TdeF

      But not China over 6 million deaths. Everyone is happy to attack Russia, even firing Russian musicians, anyone Russian. The Western press are very angry with Russia, because it has betrayed Karl Marx, their hero. Their new hero is President Xi and few praise him more than Canada’s Trudeau. And the greatest threat to Russia is not the West. It is China.

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        Leo G

        And the greatest threat to Russia is not the West. It is China.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if China wasn’t the instigator of the present situation in Ukraine.
        If the US and its military allies appear to be humiliated by the outcome, then China is in a far better position to subsume Taiwan.
        If Russia is humiliated then that would weaken its capacity to hold on to Siberia and China would resume its claim for a vast resource rich territory larger than the USA and India combined.

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      Strange move (and highly publicised in MSM too ?) ..especially as there have already been extended trials and sentencing of the individuals involved in the shoot down.
      MH 17 was not a Russian planned incident,….it was a f**k up by a trigger happy squaddie with even worse leadership.

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        PeterS

        Not long ago reports stated that the missile used to shoot down the plan was an old Russian one no longer used by the Russians and that it was shot from Ukraine. If only we had honest journalists to find out the truth. Alas, all our journalists are good for are covering up the truth and telling lies.

        10