JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks


Advertising


Australian Speakers Agency



GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper



Archives

Awakening? Queensland green types realize what environmental horrors wind farms can be

It’s almost like some at the ABC are sympathetic to the anti-wind-farm movement?

The awakening begins. There is an opening here for the two opposite ends of the political debate to come together, and to figure out who the real enemy is — something that would transform the political landscape. Before anyone gets the urge to rub their noses in it (no matter how deserved it is) ponder how useful this is as a way to open a conversation. There are still good green tinted people out there who have no idea they are being used, or that there is a cheaper energy source that feeds plants, doesn’t chop up birds and bats, and doesn’t consume 13,000 hectares of wilderness either.

The wind farms angering renewable energy fans

Steve Nowakowski was a fan of green energy, and hired as a photographer:

Now, as he looked down, he was shocked at what he saw.

“I thought, ‘Geez, there’s a lot of destruction here. They’ve transformed what was a really great, pristine area … into a really industrial area’.”

Biologists don’t like it either:

According to James Cook University adjunct professor and evolutionary biologist, Dr Tim Nevard, Far North Queensland is one of Australia’s most biodiverse regions and many of the sites chosen for wind farms are “wholly inappropriate”.

“Biodiversity is the buffer at the end of the tracks that stops the runaway train of climate change from bursting through,” Dr Nevard says.

“Destroying biodiversity in order to have greater amounts of wind energy is a complete oxymoron. It’s ridiculous. So we shouldn’t be doing it.”

After Steve Nowakowski  saw more wind farm applications — his opposition to them hardened. He gave a speech to locals, with photos. He thought they might throw eggs at him. Instead, none of them wanted the industrial complexes in the local wilderness either. (Imagine that?)

The Aboriginal activists were also annoyed and dismayed. The new projects in Queensland are going to be even bigger and more invasive. Some 13,000 hectares of vegetation will be removed if all the planned subsidy farms go ahead, and 90% of that land is in Queensland.

The ABC article is a long gushing feature. It ends, like a cult fanclub, with the belief that wind farms are still useful. They just need to be built somewhere better they say, as if there is plenty of land which has high wind, large transmission lines and no native fauna or farmers. But people don’t build billion dollar interconnectors to nowhere, so it’s a fantasy combination.

This is an opening in the wall to reach the soft greens. Join with them in lamenting the environmental damage, then walk them through the Valley of Vested Interests, pointing out who is really getting rich. Then gently lead them to realize that almost all the Environmental popular movements are not even trying to help the environment.

h/t Greg and Dennis

 

9.8 out of 10 based on 104 ratings

134 comments to Awakening? Queensland green types realize what environmental horrors wind farms can be

  • #
    Dr Simon Thompson

    Amen.
    Sounds like good psychology Jo!
    As always, follow the money!

    290

    • #
      Robert Swan

      But how do you think it’ll play out? Here’s my guess:
      Gee. You’re right. This wind power is pretty bad for the environment. Al Gore (or whoever) has agreed and says we need to move it offshore
      ten years of subsidised offshore wind pass
      Gee. You’re right again. Offshore wind is *really* expensive and lots of maintenance, and still needs backup power. Al Gore says we should go tidal
      time passes
      Oh. He says wave energy is where it’s at

      etc.

      So the hope is to convince a groudswell of “soft” greens to push their leaders to drop the latest daft scheme. How many iterations to bring them to nuclear? To coal?

      Sure, it’s generally a good idea to be civil, and you may even convince a few of the freer thinkers, but the real problem with soft greens is that they’ve outsourced their thinking to crooks who pretend to care for the environment.

      190

      • #
        John B

        Don’t forget the geothermal energy Al Gore was pushing. It’s several million degrees down there, he told a tonight show host. And Al was once once called by Newsweek, “The Thinking Man’s Thinking Man.”
        But I guess anything a Democrat says will pass muster by MSM and Big Tech.

        80

      • #

        Every Redpill moment makes the next one easier.

        We battle forty years of propaganda. It won’t be undone in a day, but it will never be undone if we don’t start with one redpill…

        150

        • #
          Robert Swan

          Yes, at an individual level, but it’s a moving feast. For each person who leaves their camp (through our efforts or through waking up for themselves) how many new acolytes do they recruit? Is it time to move on from COVID and start working out the R₀ value for the green mania?

          30

    • #
      Ian

      “As always, follow the money!”

      That is exactly what people are doing

      “Not all traditional owners share Joyce and Georgina’s horror over the destruction of country.
      Joe Brooks, who was on the Wabubadda board until recently, says while he dislikes seeing the country torn up, he accepts that Native Title holders have no veto power over these projects.

      He also sees enormous benefits: plenty of jobs.

      Joe agrees that Wabubadda failed to keep people updated on negotiations with Epuron, but he says that Jirrbal negotiators have worked hard to secure well-paid jobs for people at Kaban at least.

      Joe himself has benefited. He used to work in the cane industry and in mining but when the Kaban wind project started, he took a group of young adults out to the site and they walked the property, surveying for artefacts. He worked hard and transitioned into a job for a contractor out at the site.

      “I make 1,800 bucks a week,” Joe says. “Very happy with that. And so can anyone else who goes out there.”

      As for this Conservative government, it is clearly quite content with wind farm development

      “A spokesperson for the federal environment minister, Sussan Ley, said the government was committed to the highest environmental standards in assessing all projects. Federal laws establish a transparent and rigorous regulatory framework for the protection of listed threatened species, and World and National Heritage places, the spokesperson said.
      They said the assessment process for Kaban was rigorous and that the Commonwealth imposed 41 conditions on approval, including a fauna-management plan and offsets, consistent with the department’s policy.”

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-12/queensland-wind-farms-clearing-bushland/100683198

      214

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Highly rigorous: and Joe got “looked after”.

        Imagine; getting paid nearly a hundred grand a year for leading people around and saying “look at that!”.

        Intensely rigorous.

        170

        • #
          Ian

          “Intensely rigorous.”

          Well what else would you expect from a Conservative government? And as for Joe ” getting paid nearly a hundred grand a year” good luck to him and to any one else who can get out of the poverty trap`’

          118

      • #
        MP

        The only jobs are in the construction phase, short term gain. The local Aboriginals are not happy and pack out the town hall meetings, us white folk are not allowed into them as numbers are limited.
        Its a farce, the subsidy farmer ensures there is no PA, so people at the back can’t hear, addresses no issues raised as the person addressing the group is just the media rep. The so called elders are paid off to go with the flow.

        A scam as these things employ HV sparkles only after construction.

        130

  • #
    Mike

    Well, well, well, if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions.

    141

    • #
      Mantaray Yunupingu

      Mike. What’s happening here is the famous NIMBY (Not In My BackYard) effect, which has always happened with “environmental” stuff. The shyte always has to happen to OTHERS, someplace in a land far far away.

      Didn’t we see this when Tony Abbott was rolled by Zali Steggal in the millionaire’s playground of Warringah at the last Fed election. All in favour of every trendy green notion, but driving a huge diesel 4WD herself…and no Wind-turbines on any of those windswept headlands? Didn’t we also see it when inner west woke-Lilyfield Sydney was suggested as a possible refugee-camp site (huge former hospital grounds on a bay off the the harbour): unanimously voted down by all Greens and ALP councillors. What about a massive recycling plant in some ultra-left stronghold in Sydney’s eastern suburbs, or in Fitzroy, or in Milton etc, then? That’d get up for sure, wouldn’t it?

      Hmmm. Well Mt Emerald (look up the air-crash while you’re at it) IS far far away: only visited by right-thinking Greens and fellow travellers once in a blue moon. My advice: go walking at the southern end of the Tablelands before that’s ruined too.

      60

      • #
        GlenM

        There is a small village in Northern NSW called Ben Lomond which has signs around town showing their displeasure at a wind farm along the range. At 1400metres asl it is thought that it would be a good site. Unfortunately there are similar arrays north and south and for long periods are inactive. The environmental considerations for the proposed site at Ben Lomond are horrendous. The locals are fed nonsense from the managers but the locals are smarter.

        00

  • #
    RobB

    Lets go nuclear!

    141

    • #
      David Maddison

      Nuclear should be an option but for economic reasons only. Rational thinkers should not be promoting it as the only option because that implies there is something wrong with coal or gas powered generation which of course there isn’t.

      370

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Yes; nuclear is for the long distant future and we should be taking small steps towards building the technology in readiness.

        80

        • #
          David Maddison

          Nuclear is available right now. The only question is an economic decision as to whether coal, gas or nuclear would be better for any proposed installation.

          80

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            True; nuclear at the moment is significantly more expensive than coal fired alternatives and this makes it essential that we develop more efficient nuclear systems.

            Putting that aside, “nuclear” still comes in ahead of the Wind and Solar catastrophes in both economic and environmental terms.

            50

            • #
              el+gordo

              We should wait for Fusion Power, it will revolutionise the system.

              13

              • #
                David Maddison

                el+Gordo, fusion power is always 50 years away. Some think that it is not feasible at all, although there have been some advanced in recent years

                70

              • #
                el+gordo

                We should know in a few years, the world is investing monies in a fusion reactor.

                ‘Its $22bn (£15.9bn) build cost is being met by the governments of two-thirds of the world’s population, including the EU, the US, China and Russia, and when it’s fired up in 2025 it’ll be the world’s largest fusion reactor. If it works, ITER will transform fusion power from being the stuff of dreams into a viable energy source.’ (Science Focus)

                11

            • #
              David Maddison

              I think much of the expense of nuclear is in expensive and unreasonable regulation and excessive approvals processes, e.g 15-20 years. I think it would be much cheaper than coal under a reasonable regulatory regime.

              50

          • #
            Ian

            ” The only question is an economic decision as to whether coal, gas or nuclear would be better for any proposed installation.”

            Are you serious? Have you any idea, any idea at all, what the Greens think about the nuclear option? Of their listed principles aims these are particularly relevant.

            “Nuclear power is not a safe, clean, timely, economic or practical solution to reducing global greenhouse gas emissions.”

            “A world free of nuclear power and nuclear weapons.”

            https://greens.org.au/policies/nuclear-and-uranium

            Today’s thread is focussing on Westpac shareholders not approving of its support of the fossil fuel industries. . Do you think they and those with similar views, would support the nuclear option? They might but I personally wouldn’t bet on it

            29

  • #
    Weeny

    I think the answer is easy. Put all windfarms in green voting areas. I.e. inner city districts.

    490

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Like Tony Abbots old electorate?

      Let Zali explain that to a few lower north shore matrons…haw!!

      Shed be tarred and feathered and run out of town….

      300

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      It’d be interesting to see how they deal with the turbines constant pulsing which is deliberately labeled “noise” to distract from the real issue.

      Imagine being subjected to impressive external heart massage twenty four hours a day.

      Neurologically damaging; just ask those driven away them.

      60

  • #
    Erasmus

    Greens have resisted common sense for so long I’d given up hoping they’d see reason. Will this glimmer of enlightenment grow into a more effective movement towards viable energy sources?

    250

  • #
    tonyb

    Its very unlikely the operators will go to the expense of laying electric transmission cables under the ground. So to those turbine towers you can add giant electricity pylons striding over the countryside, complete with wires to take the power into the grid or nearest big user.

    So that will double the amount of urbanisation. Presumably some sub stations will also be required.

    300

    • #
      tonyb

      Coincidentally, 5 minutes after writing about the need for pylons and transmission lines in #6, , I came across this.

      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/12/14/nature-conservation-groups-demand-more-renewable-energy-transmission-lines/

      it seems that many environmental and state organisations in Oz are demanding more renewable transmission lines as existing ones are already full

      So where that puts individuals, or the smaller environmental groups who don’t like to see the countryside ruined is anyone’s guess

      240

    • #
      Glenn

      Tonyb you are correct…if you look at that picture of the wind farm above, you will note that there are no above ground transmission lines from the wind turbines. I surmise that the cabling to them is underground, probably roughly following all the tracks built to access each tower…but, at some central point, they will transition to above ground transmission lines.

      I used to work in an allied industry to the electrical generation/distribution industry, and always wondered why they did not bury ALL their cabling for safety and visual aesthetic reasons. The main reason…cost. An underground cable to handle 33kV is large and very expensive per metre, so it is far easier to go above ground, and it is also much easier to maintain over time. Cabling for higher transmission voltages is eye wateringly expensive if placed underground.

      So…every blight on the landscape known as a wind farm, also has to obviously have a transmission line built to join it to the grid. The whole idea is simply madness and over time, these things have proved to be anything but green. I have also noticed that when I see these things on TV, they are invariably not spinning…are they just monuments to utter stupidity ?

      400

      • #
        MP

        Google earth You can see the pylons by their shadows from the transformer yard.
        Must be underground to there?
        To be honest it was a pretty s#ity area, mainly scrub and bad soil/shale, never been for a look and never will. Famous area as our local councillors ended their time on that hill. Windy hill subsidy farm is 5 mins from me and I go past it at least once a week, never been to the viewing area to see how the cable is run, will do today though. Its on a dairy farm, so the farmer is very happy, neighbours not so much, cows don’t seem to care and I can’t remember not seeing some turning, regularly see them all turning.
        A fella I speak with worked on the Dairy farm, what they don’t tell you is the blades wear out and are dumped in a gully on site as it is a major exercise moving these massive objects.

        There are subsidy farming sites all over the place up here, test towers on every bit of high ground, they are building one at Kaban very sad as its a very nice area. The Crooks we call government have declared the area a “green hub” but from the get go had no intention of staying within that zone and are now going hell for leather building Chalumbin subsidy farm The Atherton tablelands is a beautiful area and they are destroying it, for our health.

        130

        • #
          tonyb

          I don’t suppose you can get on site to take a picture of the dumped blades? Interested to hear how your trip to the viewing area goes.

          70

          • #
            MP

            Last I spoke with the lad, I suggested we do a stroll for some happy snaps, I will catch up with him again Sunday.

            30

          • #
            MP

            MP reporting. What a weird way to do things, these are the first ones installed in QLD and only babies in height and power. 20 bird slappers generating 12 meg at full speed.
            The cable is underground from the turbines to a small box about the size of a mini, 10 meters from each tower, (guess what that is) no poles or wires on the farm except for the ones carrying power to the farms. They come up on the other side of the HI way at the base of a pole and head up and split into the 3 phases, it then goes above ground and meets with the same pole that carries the power to the farms, just a couple more arms to hang the six wires off, it then goes to another pole and heads back across the HI way to the same farm and maybe 3 K’s down the road to the transformer yard.
            In that google earth link it should open at the turn off from the HI way to the road running past the viewing area, across from that turn off is a short dirt track at the end of that is the pole the UG cable ties into the overhead, if you zoom in and squint you can make out the OH cables and the shadow of some poles. somewhere in the mix it goes from DC to AC, Maybe those boxes, but there is no heat sinks or ventilation on those boxes.

            Can’t see any blades dumped anywhere in that area and I had a good look.

            There was very little noise from them, I would not complain, and I went down the road half way to the farm and could not hear a thing. But they are the babies, they are now three times bigger so I won’t judge.

            50

    • #
      Hasbeen

      Come on fellers! Transmission lines make great perches for magpies.

      20

      • #
        Kneel

        “Transmission lines make great perches for magpies.”

        Not sure where the cut-off is, but you will NEVER see birds perched on (at least) 132kV and up line – never.
        With 200+MW and 132kV, they get a shock from induction etc, no matter which line (including the “thin” earth line at the top) they land on. Just take a look at the “mechano set” steel tower transmission lines – never see a bird on them. Never ever. Pain is a great teacher, and birds aren’t that stupid.

        60

        • #
          tonyb

          MP

          All very interesting, thanks. I have no idea how much waste a turbine produces over its life with the need for new blades, generators, general repairs and maintenance. Those in a harsh environment-the Australian Desert or the UK North sea-must have a considerable amount of repairs and maintenance. What happens to all this waste?

          10

  • #
    Greg in NZ

    Saving the planet by destroying rainforest in Queensland – what a ‘novel’ idea.

    The Green is dead: long live the green!

    280

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    And they wil also have the cost 20 years down the track to dynamite existing towers and clean up the site…..including many tonnes of concrete and trucks flattening the vegetation etc.

    In so many ways wind farms appear to be multiple forms of vandalism all at once….

    330

    • #
      Maptram

      “And they wil also have the cost 20 years down the track to dynamite existing towers and clean up the site…..including many tonnes of concrete”

      And it’s not just slabs of concrete to be removed. A couple of years ago there was an ABC rural news program about a wind farm in Tasmania. The project manager said each tower sits on a 700 cubic metre block of concrete, so about 10 x 10 x 7 metres. A cubic metre of concrete weighs about 1 tonne so it’s “… including many hundreds of tonnes of concrete.”

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-04-08/beef-farmers-tasmania-wind-farm-dreams-reality/10976378

      111

      • #
        MP

        The sg of concrete is 2.3, so 2.3 tonnes per m3. plus the steel reo.

        40

      • #
        Plain Jane

        I have been told they are supposed to remove the concrete for environmental reasons. I really cant see that the plants and animals are affected by concrete in any way that matters (or Co2 either).Just more green environmental idiocy. On top of the insanity and corruption of the whole Co2 thing.

        20

    • #

      Crossing the plains of Montiel, the knight and his squire discovered some thirty or forty windmills that are on that plain, and as soon as Don Quixote had spied them, he cried out: ‘ Fortune directs us better than I could imagine. Look yonder, Sancho, here are at least thirty terrible giants whom I intend to encounter, and having deprived them of their lives, we will partake of their spoils, for in knight errantry, these are lawful prize.’

      ‘What giants?’asked Sancho.

      ‘Those whom we see yonder, with their immense extended arms.’replied Don Quixote. ‘Some of that detested race have arms that reach two leagues across the land.

      120

    • #
      Chris

      What is happening over seas is that the wind turbines have a useful life of 12 – 15 years not the 20 that they promote. The leading edge of the blade is actually chopped to pieces by the wind and as a result slows down and produces even less energy.

      The concrete blocks are being left in situ because they are too expensive to remove.
      Here in Australia, a shipment of wind turbines from China has arrived with cracks through them.

      80

      • #
        Ronin

        I saw a video of the blades being ‘recycled’, they were cut to shorter lengths and fed into a huge chipper, the resultant material was blended into concrete batches.

        10

    • #
      MP

      They only remove the top meter of the base and bury the rest.

      20

  • #

    Governments and proponents always talk about minimising the detrimental effects. This term is never quantified, so that if 90% environmental destruction is necessary to achieve their end result then that’s o.k. is it?

    80

  • #
    clarence.t

    I wonder how many avian species used to live there !

    110

    • #
      Chris

      Bats’ lungs explode due to the air pressure created by the turbines. It is estimated that the turbines kill a million bats a year. Many bat species are pollinators, ie essential workers in the environment.

      70

    • #
      Mal

      The blades will take care of the rest

      00

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    At 447 square kilometres, not counting rail, port and water, the Carmichael mine is a way worse for the environment, aboriginal heritage, visual impact etc etc. also it is all to be exported, so we get the mess, and India gets the power.

    Love how perspective never intrudes on dogma

    148

    • #
      Glenn

      As the mine progresses, the mined areas are reclaimed and repaired. Presumably you have a problem with
      providing electricity to some of the poorest people on earth over in India ?

      430

    • #
      farmerbraun

      A meeting of the minds is something to be avoided at all costs ,
      right Peter (?)?
      I guess you completely missed the point of what Jo said.

      210

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Speaking of people who always believe the dogma ……

      160

    • #
      MP

      Can you point out the power plant connected with the Carmichael mine and how much power it generates.

      60

    • #
      Ross

      447 km2? So based on the average area per turbine of 40 ha, that area equates to about 1100 wind turbines. Not only does that Carmichael mine produce infinitely more energy on a per ha basis it has probably way less environmental damage in the long term. That’s the major problem with wind – you have to locate them generally at higher altitudes where the wind blows but not too far from major populations. So for Australia that’s pretty well the whole Great Dividing range on the East Coast where all our best scenic wilderness areas are mostly located. But now they are in danger of being festooned with huge eyesore monstrosities, that kill birds and product bugger all electricity.

      210

    • #
      el+gordo

      ‘Love how perspective never intrudes on dogma.’

      It is what it is comrade, a lot of energy is used to make those concrete blocks. When the proverbial hits the fan, after they recognise that CO2 doesn’t cause warming and wind farms are inefficient, these monstrosities will be dismantled at great cost.

      50

    • #
      Ronin

      A mine is a hole in the ground, after the mines’ life is expended, it can have a second life as managed waste facility which produces methane for electrical generation or can be an upper or lower holding dam for pumped hydro, so much more useful that a time expired windmill.

      70

    • #
      skeptocynic

      You’re going to need quite a few more of these coal mines Fitzy, if you want to achieve “net zero” by covering Australia in these expensive, destructive, Chinese windmill contraptions.
      Building one wind turbine requires 900 tons of steel, 2,500 tons of concrete and 45 tons of plastic.
      That means each bird chopper requires about 700 tonnes of coal just for its steel component alone.

      Your green fairy friends dream of powering society entirely with wind and solar farms combined with massive batteries.
      Realizing this dream would require the biggest expansion in mining the world has seen and would produce huge quantities of waste.
      If you don’t like Carmichael, then you’re going to hate the “net zero” alternative!
      Or, you’ll have to become totalitarian dictator of the world and force everyone to live in the stone age.

      140

    • #
      clarence.t

      That mine provide far more to the Australian economy.

      The coal is used to manufacture many items that are used world wide.

      Even you almost certainly use many items made using Carmichael coal.

      Coal builds and provides….

      Wind turbines only take and destroy.

      50

    • #
      clarence.t

      “Love how perspective never intrudes on dogma”

      Only someone with a total lack or perspective could make a comment like that.

      30

    • #
      clarence.t

      “and India gets the power.”

      It would be extremely racist and anti-humanity to deny India the right to buy our coal.

      Why do some people begrudge them the right to develop their country ??

      30

  • #
    Mark Kaiser

    From the article: “Before anyone gets the urge to rub their noses in it (no matter how deserved it is) ponder how useful this is as a way to open a conversation.”

    I agree Jo, although opening a conversation is perilous at best. Here’s why.

    I’ll use my CoVid debates (literally dozens of talks) with 2 highly intelligent analytical people over the last year.

    The more I presented indisputable facts about the risks of vaccines: VAERS, no long-term studies to take just 2 examples, the more they dug in. I would openly acknowledge the short-term net benefit of the vaccines. They took that as victory. And would just arbitrarily tell me all my other facts were wrong.

    They also admitted that they basically believe our government is at worst benign, at best totally there to help citizens. (Hmmm never asked them if North Korea applies. I’ll have to check)

    That’s when the lightbulb went on!
    With CoVid, and in this case Global Warming, they have been conditioned to great levels of fear. Who can protect them from those threats? From their perspective, ONLY the government!

    By winning the factual argument (battle) I am losing the war. They resent me for taking away their security blanket, the government. And by extension, I have undermined their faith. And we all know that the Global Warming pitch is a religion, not science.

    From the article: “This is an opening in the wall to reach the soft greens. Join with them in lamenting the environmental damage,”

    I think your suggestion at the end of the article is where I’ll start. Although I suspect I’ll need the patience of Job. Do soft greens even exist? I hope to meet one someday.

    240

    • #
      Glenn

      I have come to the same conclusion re Covid Mark….fear has polarised most people into taking a leaky dangerous chemical cocktail and they actually believe the Government will protect them. I simply don’t bother arguing anymore…in time, if I am correct, the long term side effects of this crap will awaken the masses to their stupidity sadly.

      200

      • #
        farmerbraun

        Invariably the response from those who cannot, or do not wish to, see the big picture , is that it’s conspiracy theory .
        Even evidence of co-ordination , co-operation , commonality of purpose is inconceivable is to be dismissed.
        Apparently.
        Perhaps in the fullness of time , they will see, I say somewhat hopefully.

        50

        • #

          Do soft greens even exist? I hope to meet one someday.

          I was one. There are plenty of good people still in the Greens who would be mortified to know how much they hurt the poor, damage the environment and feed the rich.

          But you are right on the vaccine Mark — it’s a dark place to start to wonder if our medical system is not trying to protect us and a lot of people are not equipped to deal with that. With those people, it will be better to talk about alternative treatments that are working in Africa and India and Indonesia, or probably best to start with the importance of Vitamin D. Call it a flanking attack — due to their fear, they will be interested in ways to protect themselves. Use the fear to open a door just to the idea that they are not being told the whole story.

          The golden rule for redpills though is it’s far easier to do it one on one. Chip chip away, but be aware that in any group someone will feel it’s their religious duty to push back against you publicly.

          If you can manage to always appear polite, caring and sympathetic, you will get to them.

          60

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        They say stupidity is naturally self limiting, in that it dies with the host.

        We may yet see that with the number of belligerent & clueless who have taken the clot shot…

        10

    • #
      nb

      I too know many intelligent people who have fallen for the current government propaganda campaigns hook line and sinker. There is a Gell-Mann effect equivalent for government action.
      I’m not sure this is useful, but from Chris Martenson at Peak Prosperity:
      Professor Mattias Desmet: Mass Formation events share four common elements. (1) A loss of social bonds, (2) a loss of meaning-making or sensemaking, (3) free floating anxiety and (4) anger or fear.
      Video and transcript at:
      https://www.peakprosperity.com/mattias-desmet-on-mass-formation/
      —–
      Why do people, trust so much in authority figures, rather than their own capacities for analysis? This question is most baffling in relation to the very smart. Why do people who have assumed or been given the mantle of authority fulfil an abstract role of truth-tellers? (A tautological question, I know.) Why do we have this capacity for belief, where people subsume themselves in favour of authority? It is weird.
      I have noticed time and again that many people seem to WANT to be subsumed by others, to create an authority where none need exist. They will suffer much loss to gain that figure of authority and truth and who will organise resources.
      There is always someone who craves to step up to fill that role.

      80

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Means they dont have to think for themselves…..

        Thats fine, as long as if they think others who do use their brains will go along with thier dumb ideas….well…rude shock a-coming…

        11

    • #
      Ian1946

      I live in Queensland and people still say “But she kept us safe”. When I say how? There is a deafening silence or rubbish such as border closures or lockdowns is what did it. I also find the same people seem to think that giant batteries will save our grid because they can be charged using wind and solar.

      I am now wondering how long it will be before a new COVID bypasses the injections and starts killing people by the thousands.

      110

  • #
    David Maddison

    Isn’t Prof. Tim Nevard of James Cook University taking a risk by questioning Leftist “scientific” doctrine (that wind energy is environmentally friendly)?

    After all, look what they did to his colleague, Prof. Peter Ridd.

    210

  • #
    Rosco

    Seriously these advocates and their whining so-called “insider” ABC reporters are simply stupid beyond belief !

    There has been incontrovertible evidence that these things are far more environmentally destructive and useless when their short life span expires requiring huge expansions in landfill !

    These stupid advocates and their even more dumb cheer squads like the ABC must be held to account.

    In the 70’s all of these types were chastising Joh for ONE coastal road but today they force dumb politicians into massive environmental degradation for god knows how long for maybe a couple of decades of 30% of installed capacity electricity generation.

    These people aren’t true environmentalists – they are the problem !

    130

  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    This won’t ruffle a single feather where it matters – among the middle-class, city-dwelling Greens who make the decisions. Just as they are used to indulging their expensive fantasies using other people’s money, they avoid any practical consequences by building their monstrous blots in other people’s backyards.

    If they can’t see that wind farm while buying their organic soy latte from that darling little coffee shop in a Melbourne laneway, then they don’t care.

    150

    • #
      David Maddison

      building their monstrous blots in other people’s backyards.

      Like them building a monstrous wind subsidy farm in the ocean off Obama’s backyard in Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts, home of Leftist Elites. They all believe in expensive wind energy for the masses (because it is so profitable for the Elites) but not in their backyard. But in opposition they use the excuse that it affects the whales.

      https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2021/08/26/environmental-group-sues-block-vineyard-wind-project

      A group of Nantucket residents filed a lawsuit Wednesday against the U.S. Bureau of Ocean Management and others, claiming federal officials did not adequately consider the adverse effects on the North Atlantic Right whale and other marine life when they approved the Vineyard Wind project.

      SEE LINK FOR REST

      90

  • #
    Robdel

    I do think you are right Jo. Scolding and admonition gets one nowhere with extreme greens. A gentler approach is needed to bring them out of the wilderness.

    50

  • #
    • #
      PeterS

      and the Greens love to make us believe they love us when in fact they hate us. Any approach by the left to make us start listening to whatever they say is a ruse, pure and simple.

      80

      • #

        Sure PeterS — it’ll be a better world if we feed the hate and division between left and right instead of building bridges. Whatever you do, don’t listen?

        Have you ever noticed how much you help promote CCP strategic goals?

        23

        • #
          PeterS

          That’s my point. Building bridges is a big mistake. Didn’t you read my other posts?

          10

          • #

            I did read your posts. You apparently didn’t read my replies.

            President Xi is proud of you though. The last thing he wants is for the good people on the left and right to unite against evil.

            00

  • #
    PeterS

    Is the ABC (and other MSM broadcasters I presume) stealing what RT News has been doing for some time now? Present all sides of the argument and let the reader decide? The intended audience of RT News are those who in their words “want to question more”. They tend to cover stories overlooked by the MS and provide alternative perspectives, not a single point of view across the board. It’s a far healthier environment to allow the viewer decide. It’s far form perfect but it’s light years ahead of the MSM. Is the MSM waking up? I doubt it. It’s just another con job. They tell lies.

    70

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    The heading, “Awakening”, implies that the Green Movement was, at sometime in the past, fully awake.

    Unfortunately, the so called environmentalists have never actually been involved with nature because there are too many “bities” and “stingies” and their primary involvement has been via the screen with David A expounding on the joys of nature.

    It’s not unexpected then that such Keyboard Worriers would accept the idea that Australian Bushfires are caused solely by CO2 induced Global Warming and therefore we need Bigger Wind turbines: it’s so logical.

    From any sensible perspective the Green Energy concept is simply a Nightmare.

    150

    • #
      PeterS

      Correct. We need to avoid any temptation to kowtow to soft Greenies. It’s a ruse.

      50

      • #

        Awakening has no implication about any past state apart from “asleep”.

        Who is kowtowing to the soft greens? Not me.

        Even the fashionable greens who never visit any wilderness won’t want to look like they are OK with destroying it. The Redpill moment for them is still very useful. We’re letting them know in a friendly manner that to “look caring” and “responsible” they need to channel their fashion choices more carefully.

        40

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          “Awakening has no implication about any past state apart from “asleep”.

          True; I mashed that up.

          I was thinking of the longer term transition from effective environmental awareness that dealt with the obvious; keep trees at least two crown diameters away from homes and a similar provision for keeping roads free of likely fire hazards.

          Cut to six decades on and we have local councils which specifically deny the right to remove branches hanging over the family home nor to remove trees that have grown to be serious fire hazards.

          Homes have been crushed by huge branches that got a little bit wet and heavier during the rain and many homes have been lost when trees caught fire.

          Blocked roads were a feature of the terrible Victorian fire storm a few years ago.

          Modern Environmentalism is not about understanding and nurturing the environment; it’s solely about power and control and it doesn’t see or care one hoot about the damage it inflicts on the public.

          Just to rub salt into the wound, our petty environmentalists have left all the Lantana in place so that when the inevitable happens it will go off with a real bang.

          How did we get in this mess?

          30

        • #
          PeterS

          I didn’t say you we kowtowing to the soft Greens. What made you think that? Very strange.

          30

  • #
    Neville

    TOXIC S&W are an environmental disaster both ABOVE and BELOW the ground and yet everyone tells us the reverse is true.
    Why doesn’t anyone want to talk about the burial of these TOXIC disasters every 20 years and then forever?
    And obviously ZERO change for climate, weather or temp, just ask China, India and the developing countries.
    AGAIN,here’s a very easy to understand graph of all countries’ co2 emissions 1970 to 2018.

    Of course China, India + other countries ( see graph) will do ZIP about their co2 emissions for the next 30 to 50 years. Just refer to their delusional Glasgow clown and fra-d show.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions#/media/File:World_fossil_carbon_dioxide_emissions_six_top_countries_and_confederations.png

    Here Willis Eschenbach lists all of their scary stories and proves that we are witnessing and suffering from the greatest fra-d and con trick since the days of hobgoblins and witches.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/25/wheres-the-emergency/

    50

  • #
    PeterS

    The left hate dams as they destroy large areas but it’s OK for large wind farms to do likewise? Me thinks they still have double standards and one can be a soft Greenie all they like but that will never change. The moment they accept reality and allow dams, coal fired power stations and nuclear ones, then and only then they cease to be a Greenie of any description; soft, hard, or anything in between.

    111

    • #
      Ronin

      If it wasn’t for the greens double standards, they wouldn’t have any at all.

      30

      • #

        PeterS, “one can be a soft Greenie all they like but that will never change.”

        We can always rely on you to try to quash skeptics motivation, and pour concrete on ways to change the situation.

        President Xi thanks you for using endless cynicism and false binary choices. It may help keep skeptics sitting home and whinging in a defeatist manner, instead of getting out there and doing something.

        I was once a soft-green. I changed.

        53

        • #
          MP

          In our stand in the park group, I think the whole lot were greenies or as I call them “professionally unemployed”. Amazing when these things start popping up in their back yards they actually start looking into things and get a self inflicted red pill moment. Not one greenie left in the group I don’t think.

          40

  • #
    PeterS

    Please don’t tell me we are to kowtow to the soft left! It’s a ruse.

    51

    • #
      Peter C

      Jo said “soft green”.

      She was a green herself at one time. Talk about the road to damascus! She has even described the moment when she saw the light.

      42

      • #
        PeterS

        I don’t understand your point. I’m referring to soft left/Greenie/etc. as fake. Can one be soft pregnant without being pregnant?

        41

        • #
          Peter C

          Perhaps 2 points:
          Left is not quite the same as green.

          Some greens can change their mind.

          22

          • #
            Ted1

            Change their minds? Well, some do. But it takes a while.

            I was born to farming. When I left school farming was a fantastic place for a young Aussie bloke to be, in a land of boundless opportunity. But I fell short on objectives, so have less to show for the extraordinary talent God gave me than might have been expected. Anyway, I was and am a small business capitalist.

            When I was 36 I had occasion to have a few beers with a school mate who was a public service lawyer and some of his workmates. The topic of conversation was Wendy Bacon’s application for admission to the bar. They were opposed to her. Whereas I would have admitted her.

            I am quite sure that had that conversation taken place ten or fifteen years earlier they would have been rabid in their support, while I would have opposed her. It’s marvellous what a wife and a few kids and a mortgage can do for a young bloke’s view on life. At 36 I would have given her credit for having come this far from where she started.

            10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Is it actually a forgivable sin for former supporters of “green” energy to change their minds and realise how destructive it is?

    All the evidence was and is there, including blogs like this.

    How ignorant, arrogant and foolish do you have to be to be a “believer” in “green” in the first place?

    As a rule, I never, ever trust Leftists. For these people to prove to me that they are “reforned” will require a special effort on their part.

    100

    • #
      PeterS

      True. They can however change their mind but they have to show it’s sincere by committing to the following statements as fact:
      1. coal fired power stations are OK
      2. nuclear power is OK
      3. dams are ok
      4. wind/solar farms are a waste of money

      and stick to such beliefs without even a hint of doubt. If they don’t comply to those minimal conditions then they are fake and tell lies.

      111

      • #

        Or maybe most greens are nice people who were fed 12 years of propaganda at school, and 40 years of it on the news at night. Do we condemn them for that, or open a door?

        Sure there are those with narcissistic personality disorder, and there are psychopaths and sociopaths. But they are not most people.

        If you use a bulldozer on them, assume they are irredeemable, and fence them in with incredibly high bars for considering them even “sincere” you will guarantee that you will never reach even one.

        Forgiveness is Christian. Perhaps try using it?

        62

        • #
          PeterS

          So Jo what you are saying is we should forgive everyone who sinned against us as our Lord told us to? Do you understand the context of forgiveness in that respect? Clearly you don’t.

          Back on topic, all I am asking for people to do is to turn their brains on at the ballot box and stop giving their primary votes to the two main parties. If enough people don’t understand why that is of utmost importance and relevance then there is no hope for us at all.

          31

          • #

            Read my comment again. You don’t understand what I said.

            PS: Regarding asking people to turn on their brains at the ballot box. What are you doing to make that happen?

            00

  • #
    Ross

    If the ABC were truly representative of Australia they would have shown the doco ” Planet of the Humans” by now. Instead of 4 corners shown that, followed by Q&A with a mixture of wind and anti- wind speakers. Maybe got across some actual facts – like the only 30% capacity factor of wind power, the huge footprint of these monstrosities and the huge subsidies involved in their operation. But I wont hold my breath.

    60

  • #
    Lawrie

    “Biodiversity is the buffer at the end of the tracks that stops the runaway train of climate change from bursting through,” Dr Nevard says. Do these Enviros go to night school to learn colourful hyperbole to impress dumb journalists?

    These photos of destruction of the environment to save the environment should be used in the lead up to the next election.

    80

  • #
    David Maddison

    When I have pointed out to Leftists how ugly wind farms are and how they destroy pristine landscapes, they often respond that they think they are “beautiful” and “high tech”.

    Because Leftists are ignorant of history, they are unaware of the reasons wind energy was rapidly dropped first time around, 200 or so years ago, as soon as a viable steam engine was produced*.

    *Pick your date, Newcomen invented a viable steam engine in 1712 and by 1735 100 were in use, and by 1800, 2000 were in use.

    80

    • #
      David Maddison

      Watt’s superior, more fuel efficient engine was commercialised in 1776 but I couldn’t find information on the numbers installed. Nevertheless, Newcomen also made his original design more efficient. Incidentally, Watt’s engines were a licensed technology and the license fee was charged according to the fuel saving.

      120

  • #
    Zigmaster

    The classification of climate change as an environmental issue has always been a ruse. It’s always been a Trojan horse to attack the foundations of our capitalist system and our western civilisation.

    110

  • #
    Tel

    Geez, there’s a lot of destruction here. They’ve transformed what was a really great, pristine area … into a really industrial area’.

    It’s only just occurred to him that windmills involve construction work.

    Seriously?

    I understand this guy is a photographer, not a rocket scientist but sheesh.

    150

  • #
    David Maddison

    What is the next “green” environmental disaster?

    I’m betting it will be a major accident with “green hydrogen” (since it is so difficult to handle and store) or in the case of coal to hydrogen in Vicdanistan, an accident involving CO2 sequestration. Remember Lake Nyos? A natural event but indicative of what a massive release of CO2 can do.

    90

  • #
    Zigmaster

    I think there are some great locations for wind farms . Along Merri Creek to Fitzroy plus certain parts of Richmond should be welcomed there as there are some nice green wedges in the area.

    90

  • #
    David Maddison

    There are some Greens who are slightly less clueless than others. E.g. Bob Brown.

    Although I’m not certain if the view he said would be ruined is his…

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-25/bob-browns-opposition-to-wind-farm-labelled-hypocrisy/11345200

    But former leader of the Greens, Bob Brown, has come out swinging against a giant new wind farm planned for Robbins Island, in the north-west corner of Tasmania.

    He says it is in the wrong place, will ruin the view and kill endangered birds like the Tasmanian wedge-tail eagle and the white-breasted sea eagle that live on the island, and potentially migratory birds like the swift parrot and the orange-bellied parrot that travel between Tasmania and the mainland.

    SEE LINK FOR REST

    40

    • #
      Neville

      David I think Bob Brown is still clueless and remember how he criticised the Coalition about cyclone damage even though the BOM trend clearly shows less cyclones since 1970 or over half a century?
      And note the BOM graph clearly shows that the 2015 to ’16 season was the only year that had no severe cyclones, since 1970.
      Gosh doesn’t this donkey own a computer or smart phone? This should take the average punter about 5 minutes to find online.

      http://www.bom.gov.au/cyclone/climatology/trends.shtml

      50

  • #
    ando

    Why does no one talk about the net ’emissions’ increase from these things over their full life cycle? ie the sole reason for their usage is not met, not to mention the massive subsidies at a time of great national debt.
    And then theres the poisoning of water tables in countries that mine the rare earth metals for the turbines…

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350811/In-China-true-cost-Britains-clean-green-wind-power-experiment-Pollution-disastrous-scale.html

    Whoever signs off on this nonsense are environmental and fiscal vandals.

    90

  • #
    Richard+Jenkins

    Dr Tim Nevard should consult Peter Ridd.Perhaps they could discuss the state of GBR. Time has proved Peter was right in everything he said but our taxes supported JCU.

    90

  • #
    Mal

    Report out today
    19 out of 40 windturbines at the stockyard wind farm in victoria were found to have cracks or other defects.
    It will take at least months to repair
    They were made in China of course, the great centre for quality products
    So not only are we buying useless windmills, they are not even fit for purpose and are unlikely to come even close to their intended design life
    What a disaster in the making
    And now that climate zealot Matt Green wants to close all coal fired power stations and bet the farm on windmills and solar
    Back to the dark Ages

    160

    • #
      David Maddison

      It is Australia’s largest wind subsidy farm. Owned by Chicomms as well as using their products.

      Over half a gigawatt (nameplate only) of utterly useless energy.

      90

    • #
      el+gordo

      We have an election issue and with xenophobic feelings running high, it will be fun to watch the internal strife and collapse of the green/left alliance.

      43

  • #
    Neville

    We can easily understand the TOXIC S&W disasters and why we should never install these dilute, unreliable failures.
    AGAIN here’s the Mark Mills short video and if you prefer there’s a transcript as well.
    Like he says these are Sci-fi junk and only work in the movies.

    https://www.prageru.com/video/whats-wrong-with-wind-and-solar

    70

  • #
    Geoffrey+Williams

    Mount Emerald wind farm looks more like a BMX track right now, total eyesore !!
    Who approved this sh*theap one has to ask . .
    And what is shown in the photo above is a fraction of the total; 50+towers over 90 metres high to the hubs. Total nameplate 180 MW cost $400m. And of course it’s part time power and pobably lucky to produce 60MW on a good day.
    A couple of gas turbines closed cycle could have produced more power and full on demand energy for the same cost I’d wager. And tucked away somewhere unobtrusively.
    GeoffW

    60

  • #
    Wxcycles

    Read this yesterday, could only shake my head, reality is very different to the messianic ‘green-energy’ fantasy.

    Engineering actually matters. Thank goodness ABC maybe got a glimmer of a clue here.

    60

  • #

    And these monstrosities have to be backed up due to only delivering 25% of the time, which means you need to have the fossil fuel plants there anyway. Of course if you don’t have them then industries will need to put in their own diesel gen sets at huge extra cost, and, cynically, even more emissions…

    This is just so stupid from so many angles, but its a typical example of the all too common Leftist thought pattern, where politics is the centrepiece and practicality and engineering are thrown aside.

    70

  • #
    kentlfc

    To be fair, this is hardly a pristine area. It’s fairly scrubby country near Mareeba but still, wind turbines are ugly & useless.

    20

  • #
    Salome

    Problem with the Greenies is that once they discover that ‘renewable’ energy isn’t all that environmentally friendly, they will conclude that the only solution is not to let us have any energy at all.

    50

  • #
    Analitik

    It’s amazing how little research the green left must do in support of their pet schemes for “transitioning to a sustainable future”. Any picture of an existing wind farm in a wooded region looks almost identical to the images taken by Nowakowski with the only variation being the trees native to the region.

    The outrage only highlights the ignorance of these people.

    40

  • #
    neil

    Most people still think of the ABC as one organisation with a single mindset, it’s not. The ABC has split into two distinctive groups with very different objectives. Most of VIC, TAS, SA, WA, QLD is the old ABC focused on delivering content like rural news, drama, comedy, childrens and documentaries.

    ABC Sydney Media Studios is a radical left Greens propaganda organisation focused on driving a hard left woke socialist agenda.

    10

  • #
    CHRIS

    Once the Green Slime get it into their thick skulls that there is no such thing as “renewable energy” (except for wood), then we might just have a rational debate about the future of energy generation. As for the ABC, the sooner is split up or privatised, the better.

    00