Welcome to your prison comrade
A new Taiwanese study investigated wind farm noise on people in homes made of sandstone, concrete, iron or bricks. And they measured the low frequency noise inside and out, and with windows open and closed. Given the health risks involved, they advised that governments ought to set limits on how close towers can be, and recommend airtight windows that nobody opens much.
pixelrockerz
Perhaps someone should have done more studies like this before the world installed 750GW of wind power?
The same people that panic about the effect of a hot weekend on your grandchildren a hundred years from now, don’t seem so worried about whether the wind towers destroy your sleep or put you at risk of heart attacks today.
From the introduction of a new paper in Taiwan on the effects of wind turbine noise on people:
LFN [Low Frequency Noise] exposure has been found to cause a variety of health conditions. Exposure to LFN from wind turbines results in headaches, difficulty concentrating, irritability, fatigue, dizziness, tinnitus, aural pain sleep disturbances, and annoyance. Clinically, exposure to LFN from wind turbines may cause increased risk of epilepsy, cardiovascular effects, and coronary artery disease.
It was also found that exposure to noise (including LFN) may have an impact on heart rate variability (HRV).
HRV — The variability of our heartbeats — is a sign of how healthy we are, and how relaxed we feel. To brutally oversimplify — stressed people have a more robotic predictable pattern, but relaxed people’s hearts beat with more flexibility. Slower heart rates usually have more variation. It’s a vast topic. HRV predicts mortality after heart attacks. It’s even been connected with concentration and decision making ability, depression and anxiety.
Who needs windows anyway?
They concluded:
In view of the adverse health impacts of exposure to turbine-generated LFN, it is recommended that the government set regulations on the requisite distances of wind turbines from residences, for houses near wind turbines to be equipped with airtight windows for sound insulation, and for residents living in close proximity to wind turbines to have their windows closed most of the time to reduce LFN transmission.
How many heart attacks should we have today to avoid one heatwave in 2100?
———————-
LATE NOTE: Unintended consequence number 12,003. Closed windows would also increase the spread of viruses indoors, unless the homes had an upgrade on the airconditioning. And without the open-window option for temperature control, homes will use more electricity for heating and cooling. So people get sick more and emissions increase…
And let’s not start on sick-building syndrome, or on the effect that flickering, infrasound, and pulsing have on all the animals for kilometers around these towers. If it harms humans, we can assume that cows, sheep and spotted quolls don’t sleep as well. Who’s done that study?
REFERENCE
Chun-Hsiang Chiu et al (2021) Effects of low-frequency noise from wind turbines on heart rate variability in healthy individuals, Scientific Reports
From what I have read, and my own experience, closed windows are not a strong impediment to the propagation of low frequency noise. Low frequencies will vibrate the window itself, and even the walls, transmitting attenuated sounds inside.
My own experience is with a yearly music festival, for which the main stage is located 17 km, in straight line, from my house. I can attest that low sounds can travel over that distance and are felt inside with closed 3 panes windows.
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“transmitting attenuated sounds inside.”
Not always attenuated. If the house itself has parts that have a resonance point in the problem range, you can get a big increase inside the house as the house acts like a resonance amplifier.
A friend owned a house near a pub, he had this problem.. outside you could barely hear the bass notes, but the whole house used to boogie along with the beat!
He didn’t mind that much.. because he was usually at the pub anyway. 😉
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Our bedroom window was 90 metres from a passing loop on a coal line, and about 200 m from the staff hut, where all the trains stopped. And started off again. With four 3,000 hp locos.
As they started off again, they didn’t apply much power at first, because that would spin the wheels and damage the rails.
Curiously, the bigger the locomotives, the quieter they were. More modern, I guess. But, while they weren’t all that noisy, they often set up a beat which rattled the windows and the crockery on the shelves.
I wondered if this might have been “bomber beat”. When I was a boy we were still recovering from WWII. I read the war stories, Reach for the Sky, The Dam Busters, Softly Tread the Brave &c. I had read that with the multi engined bombers they had to synchcronise the engines exactly to avoid setting up a loud beat.
One Sunday evening as we were travelling from Newcastle to Sydney a lady rang in to the talk back radio from Waratah, complaining that the slow moving coal trains were rattling the tiles off her walls. This I could believe, but I felt sure authorities would not believe her, because the bigger locos were quieter.
I could not be sure, but I had the idea that our local member, Roger Wootton, was an airman in the war. So I wrote to Roger, telling this story, expecting that he would know what I was talking about with “bomber beat”.
I can’t remember if he answered, but it stopped happening..
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Huh!
Yeah, look, a little off topic I know, but still about the effects of sound.
One of my favourite bands is Manfred Mann’s Earth Band, and I attended a concert of theirs at the Newcastle City Hall in the early 70’s, perhaps one of the best (of many) live concerts I attended, umm, in my youth! It was the longest also, as they were on stage for more than two hours.
Their sixth album was titled ‘Nightingales And Bombers’, which included the title track, and on that track, the band included the actual recording of ….. Nightingales and Bombers, a recording made in 1942. The BBC sound guy was meant to record the sound of the Nightingales recorded at night, and when he got back to the studio, he found that on the same recording he had also ‘captured’ the sound of the overhead Lancasters leaving for the raid on Mannheim. (so here, you can actually hear that ‘bomber beat’ on a recording. Just open up the song on YouTube)
They (the band) also alluded to it further in the Instrumental on the album titled ‘As Above So Below’.
The album was sort of themed around ‘the night’ and included their hit, the Bruce Springsteen composed ‘Spirits In The Night’.
Amazing just what sounds Manfred got out of that huge Hammond B3, when only a few years earlier, they were considered a Church organ, and it was thought that the rock industry was credited with ‘saving’ Hammond from going under, as bands all got hold of them, once they found what could be achieved with those big Hammonds. When they set up on stage at the City Hall in Newcastle, Manfred was surrounded on three sides by keyboards, and that huge Hammond B3 was on one side all on its own. Up till then, I thought of live bands as mainly guitars, and this changed all that. There were sounds I had never heard before.
Tony.
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My only experience is with some “doof doof” music from a couple of blocks away. I could not hear the music as such, just the never ending low notes.
I found that the constant repetitiveness was the most annoying thing about it.There was no escaping it.
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Live in Seaforth Sydney 18.536 Km to Mascot Airport as the Crow flies
At 1030 night can hear the Planes taking off – low rumble
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This is temperature inversion. I was sitting here one night and I heard this constant drone of jets. FlightRadar24 showed no local traffic but aircraft can use T’vlle as a waypoint SYD to Asia and SYD CNS show west of us. I watched, intrigued, until the ONLY flight showing was one on finals into Cairns. Once landed all was quiet.
Not something I’ve thought about before but low freqs bend more easily than higher ones [where was that murder in SA recently “Echo Wall”? Was there in the 60s and it was a perfect example] Anyow you would not want to live within 200 km of a wind farm during a temp inversion.
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Once only did I see this, in October 1966, in a drought.
We were selling cattle which had to be mustered from the back paddock seven miles away. I was out before breakfast to catch the horses, with not a cloud in the sky. But I could hear thunder in the south west. No cloud, just the typical grey horizon of drought.
As we rode out we could still hear the thunder. Bye and bye a bit of high cloud rose in the south west and built up into a storm which hit us about 11:30 am, which registered 75 points at the homestead, and maybe more where we were judging by the flood that ran from it.
That storm must have been something like 200 miles away when I was catching the horses six hours earlier. I had never seen this phenomenon before, and haven’t since.
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And you highlight the base hypocrisy of selecting one source of noise (wind turbines) over all other similar sources. In Sydney, where Seaforth is an upmarket area, whole suburbs have been treated with noise abatement remedies to counter the problems generated by having an international airport located in the heart of the city.
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Again, Peter, nice try.
In many instances there are noise limits and operational restrictions applied to noise generating activities, e.g., curfews.
There are no such operational restrictions applied to wind turbines, and the noise limits that are applied, and almost never enforced by relevant State authorities, were written by the wind industry itself.
For a peek at the absolute bastardry of the behaviour routinely dished out to neighbouring residents in the way of flagrant violations of noise restrictions, you might care to examine the transcript of the testimony of the owner of the Bald Hills Wind Farm while under cross-examination, a matter presently before the Victorian Supreme Court.
It’s my turn to call you out, PF, as being one of those Australians who should be abjectly ashamed that you tacitly allow this sort of behaviour to happen in this country.
Thanks,Jo, for raising this extremely contentious issue.
Paul Miskelly
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So its ok to have a noise problem in Marrickville, with about 26 thousand people, in an area of 5.8 Sq kilometers, and where the federal government spent 300 million over 6 years. Compare this to the Capital Wind Plant near Bungendore, population 4,000, but with only 3 within the distance cited in the study.
So while thousands of people are affected by aircraft noise, 3 are affected by that wind farm.
who is calling who out
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And yet houses in Marrickville often sell of over 2 million dollars.
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https://www.realestate.com.au/blog/images/800×450-fit,progressive,format=webp/2020/02/07174415/capi_6ac7bca64e5287a31eab866e6ada1e8c_18a305137cb24d12dc952c9924afc41e.jpeg
Sold for just under $3 million
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And?
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What a Load of Garbage – Seaforth is on BNE-SYD Flight Traffic into Mascot when coming in to turn and land from East or South at Mascot and has rotation of flights in and out of Mascot to lessen noise over the North-South landing Path
All Sydney to US flights take off North then slow turn right, and directly over Seaforth
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And as against the inner suburbs where houses have had Government Subsidies to soundproof properties – Seaforth has had none.
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So you have a noise problem, as does anyone on the flightpath, yet that is a lesser problem than a couple of cow herders kilometers away from anything.
It comes down to this – noise produced by burning hydrocarbons is good, and those affected, like you should be grateful, while noise produced by wind is bad, and those 2 poor ranchers live a life of unmitigated misery.
Is that your position?
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It is clear you don’t understand the difference in “types” of noise.
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WOW
A very good indication of your position in society summed up in your comments:
But amazing how inner city latte sippers whinge about an airport that a city was built around.
Yet degrade anyone that a wind mill has been placed in their backyard.
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Peter – What a miserable Sod you are.
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What is the “ism” word to describe someone above and beyond the daily trials and tribulations of us ordinary folk?
There must be one but I’m a mechanic, not an English major.
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??? Seaforth (red circle) is no-where near the airport noise zone.
https://i.postimg.cc/4N2LgkzM/Sydney-Airport-noise.jpg
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WhatOO was highlighting is just how far low frequency sound can travel.!
Seems like wind turbines need to be at least 18-20 km from nearest inhabitants…
… wouldn’t you agree, PF !
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” other similar sources.”
Nope, not at all similar.
Aircraft noise is a short term roar, maybe a couple of minutes?
Windmills (when actually operating) are a constant low frequency beat.
It is that constant pressure beat that disrupts the body’s internal clocks. etc
Read the comments from people who actually have a clue… and try to learn.
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Correct it is the low frequency roar on takeoff that I hear
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Sydney curfews and flightpaths were implemented during the days of the B 707. Todays high-bypass fan engines are, by scales of 10, quieter.
looking out my window I might see A/C on approach but almost never hear them. Atmospherics excepted.
Army choppers can rattle the house, but so be it. It is a fleeting, sometimes interesting, annoyance.
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How did people survive in the days (and nights) of the clackety clack 40 ft lengths of rail on the railways? They must have been tougher.
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Perth near the airport-
A motor sport circuit had to be closed due to one resident making a noise complaint.
Many residents complained about aircraft noise, but that was not with the powers of the State to stop.
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I think they are talking double glazed set in brick or concrete. Single glazing protects you from mozzies, little else.
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1970 Stayed in 2 Bedroom Flat in Grovewood, Sandycombe Road, Kew, Surrey, TW9 – Apartment overlooked Tube District Line, was on Flight Path to Heathrow (very frequent) and overlooked High Park Road bridge crossing District Line
Deep (separated by 400mm) double glazing mean amazingly quiet in Flat
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Sixteen inches?
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I stayed many times at the Old Bull and Bush Hotel, (seriously renovated even in the 1960s) Rochester, Kent. The big trucks on the main road were about four yards away from my sleeping ears but the double glazed windows made it tolerable. Could have been a twelve inch gap between the glass panes.
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16 inches – yes correct – it was really deep, especially compared to Double and Triple Thickness Glass Doors and Windows today
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There are many sources of infrasound in industrial settings. The bottom line is that the barrier to a wave needs to be as thick as the waveform is long. Since infrasound waves can be over 10m, Window glass seems a bit naive – I suspect it is to try to pacify those whose health is affected by nearby windfarms.
Those who are against wind energy because it is intermittent need to learn about the pathologies it produces. This talk by Mariana Alves-Pereira starts with the physics and goes on to the pathophysiology. I think it is essential information.
https://livestream.com/itmsstudio/events/8781285/videos/196181579
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Agreed. Low frequency noise easily propagates through most building structures. Unlike higher frequency noises, lower frequency ones are very hard to attenuate.
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A sad, short video about the utter misery that wind subsidy farms cause, except for their rent-seeking owners who become wealthy at the expense of poor people.
https://youtu.be/zr3z_7iQ35s
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Wind turbines must be about the ugliest things ever invented.
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Hang on I’d put any Greens Party up against them for ugliness.
But yes people who tout their beauty should take a Rorschach test, I took one once but couldn’t understand why I was being shown a picture of my parents fighting.
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I took one once and the tester guy said I was a sex maniac.
“Me?” I asked “It is you showing me all the dirty pictures”
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Spending millions on propellers and solar panels won’t make sun brighter or wind stronger, Russian envoy tells EU on energy crisis
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And I’ll bet they didn’t believe him, not for a second,
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A note of caution: As university and government “scientists” tend to be defunded or sacked if they don’t support any aspect of the anthropogenic global warming fraud, then it is similarly likely that they’ll be less keen to investigate negative environmental aspects of wind turbines.
Because “green” energy and it’s Leftist rent-seekers must be supported at any and all costs.
How else could it possibly be explained how so few scientists on the Government payroll are critical of expensive random energy generators?
Generating both poverty for users of their energy and wealth for their owners is the only thing wind turbines do well.
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I’d been trying to find out more about the RMIT breakthrough in CCC that converts captured CO2 into oxygen and solid carbon…and could find no updates on it until I came across a report on a ‘global collaboration’ centred at UNSW that seems to be the same research.
The collaboration involves UNSW…Melbourne Uni…RMIT…UCLA …North Carolina State…QUT and ANSTO [ the Synchrotron]…. on ‘a process that can be done at room temperature and uses liquid gallium to convert the carbon dioxide into oxygen and a high-value solid carbon product that can later be used in batteries, in construction or in aircraft manufacturing.’
The process is said to be relatively cheap…efficient and ‘green’… and ‘could be in cars to convert polluting exhaust gases, or even at a much larger scale at industrial sites where CO2 emissions could be immediately captured and processed using this technology with 92 per cent efficiency in converting a tonne of CO2 … using just 230kWh of energy.’
They estimate this equates to a cost of around $100 per tonne of CO2.
Although the researchers intend the CO2 be captured directly from [presumably petrol] cars…and from fossil fuel-powered industry…..there’s not a mention anywhere that the process might be used to capture CO2 emissions from a new HELE coal plant should someone build one…..no doubt because they’d be drawn and quartered and immediately lose their funding.
Such is the post-truth world the Left has created with impunity.
The team seems to comprise all imported scientists too…could be wrong but seems so….and that’s perhaps the worst impact of the Left’s long march…..the lost opportunities for Australia’s children ….indoctrinated while much of the rest of the world is being educated.
IMO the only people who can rectify this dire situation for Australia are the on-air TV pundits.
They have the power to get the politicians..scientists …bankers and CEOs etc on TV ..to be interviewed and asked the questions that would reveal both their ignorance and their monumental betrayal.
It’s the pundits’ only raison d’etre IMO….and if they don’t do it they shouldn’t have their jobs.
If the movers and shakers refuse to go on air …that fact should be used to discredit them…since so much is at stake.
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Interesting, but really, The University of NSW?
Isn’t that the place that hired that American Warming warrior?
And then from a purely engineering point of view, what sort of engineer creates a “solution” to a fantasy “problem” which has no scientific basis and which does not exist.
Engineers don’t work like that.
The mention of gallium is interesting; don’t know much about it.
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Gallium is an extremely rare mineral that has a global annual production of just 100 tons.. 95% from China.
very useful in electronics.
Wonder how much would be needed to “transform” the CO2 from a power plant into Carbon…
… and why would anyone even bother, when by far the best place for that CO2, is in the atmosphere where plant life can use it.
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It is a semiconductor used in early transistors but silicon replaced it. [I think]
A quick search to confirm this shows it is still used in specialist devices:
Gallium Oxide Vertical Transistor Has Highest Breakdown Voltage. Thursday 5th August 2021. Breakdown voltage of 4.2 kV is 1.6 times higher than that of conventional transistors. Novel Crystal Technology has developed a β-Ga 2 O 3 vertical transistor with the world’s highest breakdown voltage of 4.2 kV.
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It was germanium that was used in early transistors. Gallium based transistors such as GaAs and other semiconductor devices are current technology.
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Correct David. Green tick.
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Sorry, ’twas 60 years ago. Once you learnt how they worked their manufacture no longer mattered.
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It is a semiconductor used in early transistors but silicon replaced it.
IIRC, Gallium itself has a rather low melting point, so can’t be uses in warm situations, eg computer chips etc…
However, many transistors now use Gallium Nitrate (I think that’s it) in preference to silicon.
So yes, still used extensively in the electronics, as a compound, not as itself..
Someone more recently in the electronics area than myself may be able to verify.
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Fallback position KK.
Would you not prefer to tell the Fascist gnomes of the UN/EU to get lost because we have a low-emissions combo of HELE coal-fired electricity with environmentally and economically-useful CCC [ not CCS]..to deprive the carping Socialists[should the early promise be realized] of their weapon against us…rather that than a mendicant …crippled…poverty-stricken…energy insecure…militarily-insecure …sitting-duck Australia that’s lost its sovereignty..lost control of its economy to the Global Socialists…lost its national security….that….having complied on the seminal issue…is just waiting for the next EU/UN diktat that we must open our borders to all-comers in boats via people-smugglers……that’s lost our export income and therefore lost ability to fund Medicare and PBS…lost everything??
As we all know …energy and freedom are inextricably-linked…if foreigners dictate your energy use and what you can export…and without coal that’s how it’s going to be….you have no democracy.
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Yes.
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I fund it bizarre that a “university” would devote resources to “research” involving the reduction of CO2 back to C + O2.
Of course it is possible, that’s essentially what plants do but the reason you oxidized the carbon in the first place was to liberate energy from the exothermic for mankind’s benefit.
Turning CO2 back to the original product takes the same or more energy than you originally liberated.
Back in the day before the Left took over the education system, they used to teach such basic thermodynamics in school.
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The gallium is involved in an electrocatalytic reaction to reduce CO2 to C and O2.
It’s unbelievable that they and their grant providers seem to think that you can do this at less cost than the energy you liberated in the first place.
If atmospheric CO2 was really a problem, you’d be better off planting some trees. In fact Greens/Leftists could donate their houses to the cause. Demolish their houses and plant trees in their place. They can go and live an idyllic “sustainable” subsidence lifestyle in the bush somewhere.
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David, I don’t think it’s useful to talk about exo and exothermic reactions, in fact, it could be very dangerous to some.
Just imagine the confusion and angst that might be felt by an innocent person who reads that from their “highly educated” perspective as a PhD in Climate Warming Change.
Their world might collapse.
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All very droll KK …but would you prefer CCS …with CO2 transported one way or another through cities and across the countryside to be buried next to the precious aquifers and artesian water that farmers depend on?
What is your solution…not just what you think should have been done prior to this major shift…that’s all over….but what can Australia do right now or in the next couple of years to divert us from the suicide path we’re now on?
The whole world is forensically focussed on us now…some countries would actively like to see Australia made roadkill for their hoax….but remembering that their hoax is just the device to enable Global Socialism’s 4th Industrial Revolution wherein we’re told we’ll ‘have nothing…and we’ll be happy’..under orders to be happy with it…Communist China-lite…with ‘fusion of our digital…physical and biological identities’…how can stare down the behemoth and survive as a prosperous country?
With that draconian oversight and Australia’s need for investment funding and markets for any goods we might still want to sell…and with our fifth column within…what do we do to give us the reliable power supply we must have…and give the world their lower emissions from electricity plus no defensible reason to retain the risk premium the RE carpetbaggers have placed on coal to advantage their lucrative intermittents…and no baseball bat for the bankers and moneylenders to wield against us.
That said it probably won’t happen anyway…because the capturers of the CO2 are themselves captive to the Global Socialist hoax…and would probably somehow block use of the process for HELE plants.
I would like to see some possibly viable solutions raised though.
The only hope otherwise is that it might become inescapably crystal clear in a few years that wind and solar with storage and other props can’t cut it…driving a major rethink.
Unlikely though because the forces that would resist that are massive…especially with the routine lying by all sectors now mainstreamed….lies heaped upon lies.
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President Trump simply told the globalists to “go jump” and no further action was required.
If Australia had a leader, we could do the same.
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Sorry, that was supposed to be: exo and endo.
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David Maddison…
As I said…it’s a fallback position …not the most desirable but what might be possible in the situation Australia finds itself in right now…because we’ll all be dead before this Global Socialist uber-juggernaut is stopped in its tracks worldwide….and with a world awash in lies and whole populations miseducated and victims of mass hysteria…populations who’ve lost the ability to discern truth…with a massive consumer cartel forming against us …singling Australia out…we’re on our own…we are this issue’s tethered goat waiting for the chop unless we find ways to defy them .
Australia has to find ways to give them nowhere to go with their lies and diktats….to deprive them of their narrative against us….so we don’t have to cave….and cave…
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Take a look at this act of courage.
https://livestream.com/itmsstudio/events/8781285
Dr. Mariana Alves-Pereira, from Portugal, gave this presentation at the University of Waterloo in Ontario, in September of 2019 at the request of Professor Richard Mann. Days before this event, they visited the homes of people being harmed by clusters of turbines that surround them within the largest wind project in Ontario.
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This contains essential info for those who don’t like wind turbines because they are intermittent. She goes from the physics to the pathophysiology of infrasound.
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Even a rich, Democrat-supporting Leftists like Warren Buffett said of wind turbines:
Of course he would, it’s much easier for the Elites to make money in a highly regulated society where the government dictates the methods of production, than in a free market.
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I love it when Leftist Elites such as Martha’s Vineyard residents (where Obama lives) love wind turbines for the masses but don’t want them in their backyard.
Of course, in this lawsuit they don’t dare say this marine wind subsidy farm will ruin their multi-million dollar views. They claim to be “saving the whale” instead.
https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2021/08/26/environmental-group-sues-block-vineyard-wind-project
A group of Nantucket residents filed a lawsuit Wednesday against the U.S. Bureau of Ocean Management and others, claiming federal officials did not adequately consider the adverse effects on the North Atlantic Right whale and other marine life when they approved the Vineyard Wind project.
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“did not adequately consider the adverse effects on the North Atlantic Right whale and other marine life “
This ought to apply to all off-shore wind industrial farms.
They have now admitted that these off-shore turbines are dangerous to sea life.
Where are the Greenpeace activist fighting against these installations. !
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At some point greenpeace and a whole brigade of former hippy happy clappers realized that being the man was better than fighting the man.
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Ship all the wind farms to Zalis electorate in Sydney and let them live the green dream…..
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Has Zali raised her head out of the scuppers since elected?
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CT, some of my earliest memories were messing around with boats and doing a bit of fishing. My brother and I had a 10′ blunt front punt we would row around the river so when I see these monstrosities I see a fish habitat where trawlers can’t go.
I don’t imagine there are many anglers in their tinnies in the North Sea but it might be a growth industry as the mills die. OK, with something more enclosed. 🙂
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Hanrahan:
Think also of the advantages of abandoned wind farms for sea birds. Lot of nesting areas out of reach of predators that prowl the foreshore. All that would be required is for those blades to be removed and the valuable materials “mined”.
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Reminds one of Bob Brown.
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I noted the comments were mainly of the ” it couldn’t happen to a nicer pack of hypocrites” kind. The NIMBYs were using the North Atlantic Right whale as a proxy for their disapproval. A lot like the enviros here use the spotted tree dwelling frog as a proxy to stop building a dam. These whales are used to dodging icebergs that move so a static lump of concrete or steel pipe shouldn’t cause a problem. But I am vexed because much as I despise Obama and his ilk I probably despise wind turbines even more. What is it? My enemy’s enemy is my friend.
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I’ve seen reports from Germany where people who have lived peacefully for years in rural villages have had to move elsewhere due to unbearable wind turbine effects.
I fully understand. The torture of shadow flicker, audible noise, low-frequency noise, infrasound, and visual pollution would drive me mad.
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Well, if you build enough wind farms it drives people out of the area.
That seems to be part of the plan.
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Yes. The Left want everyone living in high density devrlopments in a few mega cities.
The people are easier to control that way.
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“Greens” and Leftists will whinge and moan about a tiny amount of healthy and essential trace gas in the atmosphere such as CO2 but I have never once heard one complain about noise pollution, visual pollution, shadow flicker, rare earth metal mining pollution (for windmill magnets), destruction of wildlife, creation of poverty, inability to recycle blades, etc. due by windmills.
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Don’t forget light pollution. DARK SKY. We have people in Colorado that “whine and moan” about my porch lights. They insist the city be blacked out at night so they can see the stars. I have suggested they move to northern Canada but then again the aurora borealis might be too bright. They state it’s about respecting the rights of your fellow man but have no respect for others rights.
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This is ultimately where your “free, green” energy comes from.
This video, in Chinese with English subtitles shows the environmental devastation of rare earth metal mining in China. Much of that product goes to magnets for windmills.
https://youtu.be/TGLC59rCCDc
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Thanks for that valuable video David and just an incredible vile TOXIC mess for the poor people that live and work there.
And of course we have hardly started on the S & W idiocy yet and the future will see more of these TOXIC disasters across China, Congo etc.
But I’m sure our stupid L W blog donkeys will think it’s okay and anyway aren’t we somehow saving the planet for the grand kiddies?
These loonies would be funny if it wasn’t so serious.
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Wasn’t Bob Brown the NIMBY Greenie who objected to wind turbines near his home?
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Meant to reply to David at #8.
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He also made his name in the protest against a major hydro project – remember Gordon below Franklin?
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The US once had a thriving RE industry. It didn’t die because of lack of demand.
Here we have Lynas, been around for ten years and is still below it’s IPO price. I am years out of date but even Indonesian villagers could not be convinced that the refining is safe. Their SP is on the way up I notice, so they must have solved that problem.
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Lynas CEO is a board member on the Minerals Council of Australia. The MCA are pushing hard for random energy. They have true belief in the ability of random energy to supercharge Australian resource industry and vocal advocacy for it.
Lynas is now the second largest producer of rare earths.
I am noe sure about anything to do with Indonesia but their Malaysian plant was up and running after overcoming some environmental hurdles.
One of the issues with rare earths is radioactivity of minerals. It is a working exposure but nor as bad as uranium minim and concentrating.
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Another informative and interesting post Jo. Yet most people have no idea of the problems of TOXIC S & W energy today and many more problems in the future.
Btw Jennifer Marohasy has another post about the gases that make up our atmosphere and even better educated people seem to have limited knowledge. Earth’s atmosphere is (about) Nitrogen 78%, Oxygen 21%, Argon 0.9% and all other gases are trace gases, although water vapour does vary. Co2 was about 0.028% in 1750 and today is about 0.0415% in 2021.
Jennifer also compares S & W energy capacity and so called batteries back up.etc.
https://jennifermarohasy.com/2021/10/do-glaswegians-mostly-breathe-nitrogen/#comment-736530
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I read an article some years ago; no idea how true it is. Total energy consumed to produce a wind turbine exceeds the total energy produced during the turbines expected life span. Is this another grand hoax? Anyone have more insight about energy consumed vs produced?
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Might not be energy but CO2 in vs CO2 saved, I’d believe that.
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That analysis is based on getting dispatchable power from the wind turbine. No production process can run on random energy because it would be impossible to achieve stable operating conditions. Also a directly connected production process would only operate at 30% of rating so a lot of wasted capacity.
To convert random energy to dispatchable energy requires storage. Once storage is added to the requirement then there is no combination of wind generators and storage using present technology that produce more energy over their life than they consumed in their manufacture.
A wind turbine of the same rating as a gas turbine/generator will use about 100X more mass of materials and produce only 30% of the energy in a random fashion. Of course the gas generator consumes mass of fuel during its operation but it is still a fraction compared to the mass used to build the wind turbine. And all those materials are up-front costs. But then the wind turbine needs energy storage as well to produce useful energy.
Solar panels are closer to being able to produce more energy than they consume because they are less random and far more predictable. That means their storage demands are less. There is no reason that solar panels could not be built to last 100+ years. There are some early solar panels that have been inspiration for 60 years and still producing near design. By comparison, wind turbines structure suffer cyclic fatigue and the blades gat surface damage and age related strength reduction. A wind turbine built to last 100+ years would require heavier structures than now used. There may be a design that could produce more energy than they consume but no one is figuring that out while China has low cost coal to manufacture them.
At this point in time, none of the random energy technology is sustainable. Renewable Energy is as great a con on modern society as the “greenhouse effect”. Both sad reflection on modern western education.
Russia and China educate engineers who appreciate that both “greenhouse effect” and “random energy” are cons. Many of the conflicts in the last hundred years have been related to securing supplies of raw materials and fossil fuels. I expect more to come later this century unless the world finds alternative energy sources. Building random energy generators of the current design does not overcome the inevitable resource crunch. In fact it moves the world faster toward that.
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I read an article some years ago; no idea how true it is. Total energy consumed to produce a wind turbine exceeds the total energy produced during the turbines expected life span. Is this another grand hoax? Anyone have more insight about energy consumed vs produced? Tucker is doing a special next week on wind turbines.
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oops.
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Wet Mountains here’s a good fact check about the TOXIC S & W disasters from Mark Mills for Prager Uni.
These TOXIC disasters are about as clueless as we can stretch things, but soon we could have Labor + Greens running the asylum and we’ll probably reach the point of no return.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqppRC37OgI
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Thank you Neville, great read!
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No environmental assessment or cost benefits were ever carried out on wind or solar
Now chickens coming home to roost
A bit late was we slowly but surely commit economic suicide
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Put the blasted spinners in city centres then. The people who live there don’t have windows that open due to noise, crime, pollution etc anyway. They live in a totally aircon world.
That way, normal people who live in rural areas can let in the fresh air and listen to the un-chopped birdies sing.
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It has been known for a very long time that atmospheric “pulsing” or physical shaking as experienced by heavy machinery operators is damaging to human health.
Our bodies have a background control system in the ANS which, unsurprisingly, seems to be quite happy to operate normally under the natural pulsing present in the bloodstream.
While variable the average heart rate can be put at say 70 bpm and the body has no problems accepting the variations down to 40 and up to 180 bpm.
Our skin is the largest organ in the body: it receives and processes the Windmill pulsing along with intrusion of pressure override into the lungs.
The windmill “pulsing” overrides the heart beat which is trying to control the ANS and, surprise surprise, people get very unwell. The ANS detects the Windmill pulsing and adapts to it with damaging effect.
This fact has been cleverly “hidden” in the West where insurance companies proliferate: it would be a financial massacre for workers compensation to deal with all the heart problems from “vibration” issues that exist.
Driving heavy machinery, maybe operating jackhammer and other industrial settings would be big issues for employers.
At the moment they get a free run along with windmills just so long as they can misdirect the “science” by treating the problem as Noise.
The whole thing is scandalous. Big money speaks, and politicians don’t need interpreters to get the message.
VLF pulsing is Not Noise.
Just what is the “pulse rate” of a windmill.
Politicians don’t have our best interests in mind.
KK
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I’m so glad you raised this KK because the emphasis is always on the infrasound or sound in general….but IMO the turbulence and pressure changes have just as much or more to do with the health impacts people experience.
Long before the advent of wind farms , members of my family have experienced and talked about our very definite problems from the movement and turbulence of air…as in large fans …open car windows and certain wind patterns…with the same symptoms as those attributed to infrasound from wind farms.
To be forced to live anywhere near a wind farm would be misery and torture for us….as I know it must be for millions of people worldwide….and it’s just another of the many many scandals in government and the medical profession’s cowardice and treachery in the face of the Marxists…bankers and moneylenders who aim to rule the world.
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I posted these some time back but a re-hash won’t hurt. It’s not only air-borne sound energy that we need to look at.
Micro-Seismicity a New Health Risk To Humans From Wind Turbines
http://notrickszone.com/2017/05/31/new-study-sees-new-health-risk-to-humans-from-wind-turbines-micro-seismicity/
Due to wind loading, the foundation of a wind turbine interacts with the soil and creates micro-seismic surface waves that propagate for long distances and they are able to influence adversely sensitive measurements conducted by laboratories located far from the excitation point.
(i) the micro-seismicity creates higher levels of noise inside a house than that of the airborne noise radiated by a wind turbine and
(ii) bedrock being in low depths underneath the soil has an additional contribution to the generated acoustic noise by the induced micro-seismicity.”
The study also found that micro-seismic waves impact the measurements of seismological centers that were even 15 km away from a wind turbine farm and that the “larger disturbances occurred at a frequency range of 5-10 Hz“.
The determined frequency range of the largest disturbances found in the the study of 5 – 10 Hz, according to KIT University Patras are within the natural frequencies of, for example, the following organs:
Abdomen (4-10 Hz), general poor feeling (4-9 Hz), chest (5-7 Hz), impact on breathing (4-8 Hz), shoulder area (4-5 Hz), bent knee (2 Hz), arm (5-10 Hz),
Spine: (10-12 Hz)
In another study (which I have misplaced) they detected vibration at least 10km from the source wind turbine.
SEE ALSO
Frequency Resonance of Human Body Parts
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/human-body-resonant-frequencies.501607/
For a diagram of body part resonant frequencies.
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There is a pulse generated whenever a blade passes the support column, 3 times a revolution on most 3 bladers, if anyone here ever owned a MK1 Ford Zephyr back in the day, the the engine cooling fan made a heck of a howl if you revved it much, this was caused by the fan having four equally spaced blades passing very close to the bottom radiator hose, the pulses became like a siren at speed.
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KinkyKeith
October 19, 2015 at 7:53 pm
I have been aware of the Very Low Frequency problem for almost 20 years now.
VLF is NOT noise as many greenflies would have us believe; it is pulsing which penetrates the heart/lung system and leads to serious health issues.
The only research done on this is at NASA in relation to inter space travel where there is continuous LF vibration on long trips
and, wait for it, Iron Curtain Countries.
You can’t get a grant to study this widespread industrial health issue in the west because if it became public
the drivers of heavy trucks and trains to start with, would be looking for compensation for heart lung problems and general VLF associated issues.
Then there are the wind-farms !!!!!!!!
No health issues there ; we’re GREEN and untouchable?
KK
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DARPA know all about it… Years of research into how to make a weapon from low-frequency emitters and use it to change the way the enemy feel. Probably ended up on the same battle-wagon as the ‘pain ray’ for sorting out those dangerous protesters, with the sonic cannon on the truck beside it.
The whole of civilisation has not been trialed, tested and evaluated, we just take it as we find it as we’re growing up and think ‘this is what life is like’. Different fields of medicine will point out all the metals we use affect our cells, the radiation from electricity and radio devices, the chemical industry on crops, the manufacturing industry on food, and finally the medical industry on all the problems that the aformentioned have caused. Most modern diseases didn’t used to exist, and the biggest lie revolves around the average age people lived to. We don’t live better and longer than out ancestors, we live a poorer sicker slower life.
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Berenson may know something scientifically; US gov. heavily compromised on vax!!
https://balance10.blogspot.com/2021/10/berenson-may-know-something.html
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Maybe this was the reason the Andrews government absolutely refused to say how many in one very large overnight death toll last week were double-vaxed….not that they didn’t have the numbers.. they said they knew but wouldn’t answer questions on it.
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Just added a bit to the post.
LATE NOTE: Unintended consequence number 12,003. Closed windows would also increase the spread of viruses indoors, unless the homes had an upgrade on the airconditioning. And without the open-window option for temperature control, homes will use more electricity for heating and cooling. So people get sick more and emissions increase…
And let’s not start on sick-building syndrome, or on the effect that flickering, infrasound, and pulsing have on all the animals for kilometers around these towers. If it harms humans, we can assume that cows, sheep and spotted quolls don’t sleep as well. Who’s done that study?
Thanks for many useful comments above.
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Some links here about the effects of infrasound on humans and animals.
https://wcfn.org/2016/10/02/wind-turbines-effects-on-animals/
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Wind Mill Turbulence is a big problem also!
A huge area in one large Wind Farm can alter totally the distirbution of seeds. Especially weed seeds. The vortexes behind the turbines pick up many seeds and spread them many kilometers further than normal wind turbulence.
The seeds are collected by the vortexes and raised 100 meters higher than usual.
As well as disrupting bird predators – many wind farms are being over run with vermin species.
These things need to be shut down totally!
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Don’t be like that, they are getting cheaper.
sarc.
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(and yes, I did notice the sarc!)
Yep, definitely getting cheaper?????
Coopers Gap Wind Plant, near Toowoomba in Queensland is a 453MW Nameplate plant.
The cost is around $900 Million, and when compared to Macarthur Wind in Victoria, with a Nameplate of 420MW, and a cost of $1.2 Billion, I suppose you might think that the cost has come down, eh!
Consider this.
Coopers Gap, with a Capacity Factor of 30%, well that is the equivalent of 136MW.
$900 Million for what is in effect a 136MW power plant.
Pretty costly if you ask me.
Incidentally, they put these wind plants up pretty quick (?????) too.
It was first proposed in 2005, and finally commissioned in 2021.
One tower has already been demolished and 50 of the 123 turbines have had to have components replaced after generator issues inside their nacelles were identified. FIFTY turbines!
Hmm! That’s not a cheap task either.
Tony.
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Plus area of land, wind turbines without transmission line land and back up equipment at Capital Hill NSW covers 15,000 acres/6,000 hectares for 67 units of Nameplate Capacity 141 MW.
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Here’s Coopers gap on a map. This is the highest wind across it I’ve seen since I’ve had it bookmarked.
https://www.windy.com/?-26.734,151.450,14,i:pressure,m:cUCakny
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I am in the foothills at one edge of the city. Half a km south and 1 km west there are ridges which could one day the last viable places for mills. Sweet Mary, let it not be so.
Hell! The house is timber framed and the only way we survive summer is with open windows.
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The lovers of wind and solar and Global Socialism are such committed environmentalists that they’re willing to concrete the earth ….defile all landscapes and seascapes and put children at risk…rather than go for simplicity…eg seek a way to use the best available most dense energy in the cleanest possible way until a new baseload energy similarly based on simplicity although massively complex in the research… eg fusion at low temperature….can be devised and delivered.
To the list of environmental atrocities these ‘compassionate’ ones ‘walk past’ …and insist other people endure or succumb to…I would add the virtual power plant homes themselves….the ones the government pretends Australians were just lusting for…nothing to do of course with the stratospheric hikes in electricity prices that accompanied the government’s huge subsidies to carpetbagger foreign RE generators….more government lies.
Last time I looked there were no studies re the effects on children …of sleeping and living 24/7…every day of their lives in a home that’s generating electricity in an intermittent haphazard way….that may often have voltage surges within the home and the street….powerful enough to kill appliances …a home that has a lithium battery bank located under the same roof…the authorities seemingly turning a convenient blind eye to the very strong Australian standards prohibiting location of such batteries in or close to homes….another tacit lie.
Some of the new research foreshadows red [ from the iron oxide] clay house bricks [ modified]providing electricity storage for the solar homes…constantly charging and discharging…making the home even more primarily a power plant.
ARENA says …after bragging that this Federal government is all in for RE ..with another $1billion for them..
….that Australia is on the cusp of ‘a new resources boom, fuelled by the cheapest energy the world has ever seen….staggeringly cheap energy’..
..a lie that’s exposed in their next few sentences wherein they puff that the mining industry is gung ho for RE …and then brag in the next breath about their generous funding to the mining companies…..with TPM….lies again.
Whether it’s windmills or power plant homes ..or EVs…..the Left will lie routinely and license any means …no matter how damaging to individuals….in order to kill coal and along with it the pesky middle class spawned by the advent of coal-fired electricity ….that eradication is their main game.
They intend to leave only two classes so that aspiration is also dead…….two classes…the uber-rich Fascists working in sync with Government for untold wealth and Global Socialist ends…..and the poor…forever dependent on Global Socialist Government.
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Maybe this document (https://sdgs.un.org/2030agenda) requires a small up-date then.
Yours and my government has signed up to this One World Government nonsense, most everything highlighted on this blog is a consequence of this Declaration.
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In cinemas these subsonic (or infrasound) vibrations have been used to very interesting effects — ‘One unsettling and hidden “sound” that is given credit for freaking out an audience is infrasound — a low-frequency sound that cannot be heard, but literally unsettles human beings down to our bones.’ https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-the-hidden-sounds-of-horror-movie-soundtracks-freak-you-out .
Natural sources of subsonic vibrations — Earthquakes, volcanic eruption, avalanches and landslides, intense winds (tornadoes & hurricans), close proximity to lightening, sonic-boom of a meteor in the atmosphere, etc. None of these indicate a pleasant situation, so nature has imbued nearly all animals (and many insects) with a very powerful inherent response to flee, or to try and seek a safe place, when such vibrations occur. This is also true of humans, with subsonic vibrations causing emotional and physical stress.
Medical science understands that when humans are subjected to long periods of stress they are likely to suffer mental and bodily dysfunctions, illnesses, and for many, early death!
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@ Tomomason ” … subsonic vibrations causing emotional and physical stress …”
It does depend on where you are. In Lae PNG (and elsewhere on the ring of fire) there are tremors every few seconds, minutes.
Odd when you first experience them, but you get used to them, as they are not a rhythmic pattern. It was wise (back in the 1980s) to make sure that computers with hard disks had memory-resident “park” software. Occasionally there would be some bigger events. 10 Feb 1987 the cat suddenly growled, fur stood on end, parked itself in a doorway and would not move. About 7 minutes later, the Siassi earthquake (7.4 Richter) ran through the place.
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Given most of the population are too gullible to understand all this renewable stuff is a scam, we wouldn’t need to discuss issues like this in the first place. People need to stop trusting politicians as they are almost invariably liars and use discernment to figure out what if any truths they do say, and do their own research the rest of the time, which would be almost all the time. Sadly, most people don’t have any intention to do their won research for a variety of reasons, a couple are legitimate but most are not. So, we get the governments we deserve and we are told more and more the STFU and take the BS from the governments or else you might be dealt with harshly if we disagree with them too much. Next step will be a totalitarian government as is always the trend in history. The only way to avoid it is for the people to stand up and say enough is enough. Again, as per history the pattern is the people leave it for far too long when it;s too late and the damage has already been done. Get used to the idea of a crash and burn scenario to play out first before we all learn our lesson.
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Given most of the population are too gullible to understand all this renewable stuff is a scam, we wouldn’t need to discuss issues like this in the first place. People need to stop trusting politicians as they are almost invariably liars and use discernment to figure out what if any truths they do say, and do their own research the rest of the time, which would be almost all the time. Sadly, most people don’t have any intention to do their won research for a variety of reasons, a couple are legitimate but most are not. So, we get the governments we deserve and we are told more and more the be quiet and take the nonsense from the governments or else you might be dealt with harshly if we disagree with them too much. Next step will be a t0talitarian government as is always the trend in history. The only way to avoid it is for the people to stand up and say enough is enough. Again, as per history the pattern is the people leave it for far too long when it;s too late and the damage has already been done. Get used to the idea of a crash and burn scenario to play out first before we all learn our lesson.
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Amazing appeal from all countries who are now BEGGING OPEC to produce more oil and led by the stupid Biden donkey.
They can’t seem to make up their minds about the terrible FOSSIL FUELS and just before the COP 26 CLOWN SHOW for HYPOCRITES in Glasgow.
Unbelievable but true.
https://mailchi.mp/fbcf57cfa79c/on-the-eve-of-cop26-western-leaders-beg-opec-for-more-fossil-fuel-production-184726?e=dcbe0ef09b
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Odd, isn’t it. Only a year or two ago, the US was basically self-sufficient in oil and gas, even exporting it
What could possibly have gone wrong! 😉
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Lets Go Brandon!
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The young lady with the mic who, trying to do an interview while ignoring the chant, started a movement.
Is this the Chaos Theory in real time? A butterfly beats its wings……
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Notice that there are no contributions from the resident Leftists, on this thread.
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“no contributions”
That’s pretty standard, even when they do post ! 🙂
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How bizarrely huge can windmills get?
How about the MySE 16.0-242 with nameplate capacity of 16MW and a 242-meter diameter rotor….
http://www.myse.com.cn/en/jtxw/info.aspx?itemid=825
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Well, 600tons of metal sitting 140M up in the air and I don’t see a ladder up the side of it. The helicopter operators are going to make fortunes in the future… “Sorry Sir, its too windy for airbourne maintenence his week, may sometime next week..”
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Not for even $1,000 hourly rate would I sign on to fly
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Ladder will likely be inside the tube…. or maybe even a lift !
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Engineering insanity: that’s at the other extreme from the current dense engineering in rotating coal fired units and their massive rotors.
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What are the odds that it’s an export only product?
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From the figures given I make that a 57% utilization factor. !?
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