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Weekend Unthreaded

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8.4 out of 10 based on 22 ratings

256 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #

    I saw the earlier Thread about coal fired power in Germany, and while I scanned it, I have had little computer time this week, with my good lady wife in Hospital for eight days, so I had no time to reply there, and now it is an old Thread, very few people will go back there, so I’ll put this up here in the Weekend Unthreaded to mention a few things about German coal fired power.

    There was mention a made of brown coal, also hard coal, also water content of brown coal, the types of coal, and German coal fired power in general, so let’s have a mention of all of those in this one place, with some relevant links.

    Anthracite is the hardest of all the coals with the largest Carbon content. It is commonly described as Metallurgical Coal, and is mainly used in the manufacture of Steel, and some other processes, and might also be described as ‘hard coal’.

    The next two, Bituminous and Sub Bituminous coals are used in power generation.

    Lignite is brown coal, as used in Victoria for power generation there in now very every old power plants, and almost exclusively in Germany for its coal fired power plants.

    Read the generalised description of these four coals at the EIA link I have included below especially with respect to Carbon content.

    Okay, so now we come to those German coal fired plants.

    The one I use for reference is the Neurath coal fired plant in Germany, with one of the newer USC (UltraSuperCritical) plant at Units F and G at that very large power plant. Again, I have included the link to this plant below for you to read, and while it is relatively long, the information is quite extensive.

    These two Units came on line in 2012 and were a German adaptation of USC to burn brown coal (Lignite) at a greater efficiency than is currently in place at older tech brown coal fired plants. The problem with brown coal is the high moisture content, resulting in a lower efficiency because of the damp(ish) coal being burned in the furnace, and here German Technology introduced a further stage to the already in use USC plants at black coal fired power plants. This extra stage was to use the superheated flue exhaust to heat the coal prior to injecting the coal into the furnace as coal pulverised to a fine powder, similar to talcum powder blasted into the furnace at the rate of a Tonne of that powdered coal every sixteen seconds or so, with blast air as well. This increased the efficiency of the Units, and resulted in a saving of six million Tonnes of CO2 each year, when compared to similar emission from existing brown coal fired plants and that’s a quite huge saving in CO2 emissions from the plant, in fact more emissions saving by percentage that I even wrote about in a guest post here at Joanne’s site back in March of 2013. (Really, was it that long ago) and the link to that Thread is also included below.

    Now these (just) two Units each have 1100MW gross (from a nominal 1333MVA) generators, so a Nameplate of 2200MW, and they deliver almost 17TWH into the German grid each year, and as an example, the currently existing TEN brown coal fired Units in Victoria deliver 35TWH each year into the Victorian Grid. Those ten Victorian Units have a Nameplate of 4690MW, so operating at a CF of 85%, down time and maintenance included, pretty good really for pretty much ancient tech plants.

    The German plant operates at an efficiency of 43%, and that puts it into the same range as for black coal fired USC plants, and here, plant efficiency is another thing altogether than CF.

    There is so much information at that Neurath link, too much to mention here, so you can read it all there.

    Just one plant similar to this, constructed in Victoria would deliver more power to the Victorian grid that the now closed Hazelwood, and the mooted closure of the Yallourn plant ….. combined.

    People are so locked into thinking of brown coal fired plants in respect to those old clunkers than they are with looking for the new technology plants.

    And hey, if coal fired power was so ‘on the decline’, you sort of wonder why those humungous multinational conglomerates are still designing newer and newer equipment for coal fired power generation if it’s supposedly going to be replaced by wind and solar power, making coal fired plants supposedly ‘stranded assts, with this Neurath plant having a projected life out to 2062.

    References:
    Types of coal at the EIA
    Neurath F and G Coal Fired Power Plant
    My old guest Post on USC Coal fired power here at Joanne’s site from March of 2013

    More to come.

    Tony.

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    • #
      TdeF

      All good stuff. But this business of ’emissions’. You mean carbon dioxide and only carbon dioxide. It’s a sad day when you have to apologise as a power supplier for essential carbon dioxide as a perfectly natural gas but presented as a noxious, polluting industrial byproduct. It is as essential as oxygen and sunlight and water to all life.

      And it allows the nuclear lobby to proudly claim that their power is free of emissions. I suppose that does not apply to Chernobyl of course and the world has to keep replacing that giant concrete shroud every 20 years for the next 250,000 years.

      Science and common sense have vanished. Yallourn, Hazelwood and Liddell could have been kept going forever, like the axe with new heads and handles. Meanwhile the misleadingly named renewables are inadequate, unreliable, random and not renewable.

      You would not buy anything which would generally only produce 1/3 of the advertised output! Nameplate is fraud. Perhaps we the people should complain to the ACCC about windmills? Misleading advertising, vastly more expensive than promised, utterly inadequate for purpose delivering only 1/3 of their claimed performance. And not renewable as advertised. Only replaceable.

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      • #
        another ian

        Lemon laws for power plants

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Emissions are only C02 – now that made me smile. I love the naive, they have a chance to learn

        344

        • #
          Paul Miskelly

          Peter Fitzroy,
          Remember what John Coombes has to say about always staying with the issue?
          Snide remarks are totally unacceptable.
          Oh, did you notice that Anton has provided a complete refutation of your seemingly distracted comments re lignite in the earlier post on German coal-fired power stations?
          And did you notice that at no time did he resort to snide remarks or insulting language?
          Time to lift your game, Mr Fitzroy.

          Best regards to All,
          Paul Miskelly

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          • #
            MP

            When the only tool you have is a hammer———

            83

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Does the word Unthreaded hold any mailing to you?

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          • #

            Paul Miskelly,

            thanks for this comment in reply.

            What it does is to specifically highlight (yet again) something I have mentioned before in response to Peter Fitzroy, where I mentioned to NEVER give him any links, most especially when he asks you for them. He is just wasting your time, and never takes those supplied links anyway, as I have proved on a number of occasions, and this is just one further to add to that.

            I SPECIFICALLY did not mention any of those other things he perceives as ‘pollution’, because I just ‘knew’ he was going to ‘bite’, and he did.

            The link I provided comprehensively went into detail about the large number of different ‘pollutants’, (his words) so often associated with coal fired power.

            The linked article was long because of those explanations.

            Again to all of you, this is just another example of Peter Fitzroy’s complete naivety when it comes to being caught out. He just can’t help himself.

            Oh, and Peter Fitzroy, there’s no need for you to apologise. We know!

            Tony.

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        • #
          RickWill

          Emissions are only C02 – now that made me smile. I love the naive, they have a chance to learn

          A snide comment with no back-up.

          Neurath F&G have high performance gas cleaning. The plant was commissioned in 2012 with very low permitted limits that it easily meets. You have no clue of their performance or the performance of modern flue gas cleaning systems.

          The comment indicates you are about two generations behind reality with regard modern power generation.

          Here is a challenge for Peter – What is the composition of the flue gas streams from Drax and Neurath F&G? Hydro and biomass are the only viable renewable energy so comparison of Drax and Neurath F&G is a good basis for comparing environmental performance.

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        • #
          el gordo

          ‘Emissions are only C02 – now that made me smile.’

          Its a harmless trace gas.

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        • #
          TedM

          Yes there is water vapour a much stronger “greenhouse gas” than CO2. But of course there are also these processes called condensation and precipitation.

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      • #
        dinn, rob

        4-14-21 Budanov went on to report that, since March 18, a movement of troops has been spotted from Russia’s western, southern, and central military districts, as well as of the Russian navy – from the northern fleet. The tactical group of the 12th missile brigade (six Iskander-M short-range ballistic missile systems and the tactical group of the 119th missile brigade (four Iskander- M launchers) have been deployed to Opuk and Pogonovo.

        In addition, another such tactical group with four Iskander-M missiles in service is yet to arrive at Pogonovo, Budanov added. Also, he said, in the third decade of April, Russia set up three operational groups: one on the northeastern border of Ukraine, the second – on Ukraine’s eastern flank, and the third – across the territory of the occupied Crimean peninsula.

        We expect the deployment to be completed by April 20,” Budanov said, added that the total number of military personnel will reach 110,000.

        Attention~~~According to Budanov, a total of 330 warplanes have been deployed near the Ukrainian borders, as well as 240 helicopters. (Plus 110 tanks, short-range missiles, howitzers, etc., etc.; largest buildup since WWII by Russia).

        Intelligence does not rule out Russia’s use of long-range bombers.
        In addition, Russia has employed warships and submarines of the Black Sea, Baltic Sea, and Northern Fleets, as well as the Caspian Flotilla, to support their air forces.
        https://www.unian.info/war/russian-aggression-ukraine-s-military-intel-says-russia-to-amass-110-000-soldiers-at-ukraine-border-by-apr-20-11388133.html?utm_source=unian&utm_medium=related_news&utm_campaign=related_news_in_post

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    • #

      I join everyone here in wishing your wife a speedy and full recovery.

      In addition, I want to thank you for the most informative comments on this website.

      Each of your comments is like a new article.

      I know you get thumbs up votes — but that’s not enough.

      I read over one dozen climate and energy related blogs and websites every day.
      From the US, Canada, Great Britain, Germany and Australia, and edit my own climate science and energy blog. This subject has interested me since 1997.

      With all of my reading, I can confidently say that no one else makes comments that add so much information to the website, like yours do.

      I’m sure a lot of other readers feel the same way.

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      • #

        Thank you Richard for your kind words, especially those in respect of my good lady wife.

        Her recovery is still happening, but at least she is home now and not ‘fretting’ as much, as she does when away from home. (me as well)

        As a side thing here, one thing I did notice was the hierarchy of Doctors. One guy went around doing all the talking (to the patient) and his, umm, ‘gophers’, for want of a better word, did all the note taking, the follow up of patient ‘files’, and the contacting me with progress and explanations, as I was excluded from visiting her in the Hospital for five of the eight days, (due to the complete lockdown in place at all hospitals) and I had to get special (Government) approval to visit her (for just two hours) on two of those days. It was heartbreaking not being able to be with her, and vice versa. Now home, she has some special requirements in place, so (as she says) I’m fussing about with her.

        However, perhaps the single most helpful and informative information I received was with a half hour phone call, and then a forty minute ‘meet’ with the Pharmacist on the day she came home. She (one of the Hospital’s Pharmacists) explained more about what was happening than all the rest combined, (and they were all pretty helpful) especially with respect to her Medications. (naturally) She has now implemented (in conjunction with the local Pharmacy where we get all her Meds from) a move to those Webster packs for her daily Meds. My good lady wife has grumbled (a little) that she has lost some control over taking her Meds, as I have been doing that for the last two years now, and while easy for me to do, this move to those Webster packs has meant that the process now is even more simplified. It’s a surprisingly simple process. I just pick up the already filled packs from our Pharmacy once a fortnight, and it’s all done. When her Prescriptions get low, they leave a message for me, and I just get the Repeats from our family GP.

        The Pharmacist also (in easy to understand detail) explained to me about some of her Meds, especially those Epilepsy drugs, as my good lady is on her original (old school) Meds from almost 50 years ago, as well as one of the most recent ones, and those old meds are now superseded by drugs now a quantum level better than those old ones, some no longer even prescribed for Epilepsy, and this new one with less long term side effects. That new one is Keppra. Its pharmacological name is Leveteracetam and is now almost the single most effective Epilepsy med there is out there, and there are many of them, let me tell you. It may end up with her just having the one Med, a Monotherapy instead of the three old school Meds, a Tritherapy from 1972, which was all they had back then.

        The upshot here is that I learned more from this one Pharmacist than I did in 40 years with her other Doctors and Specialists.

        Sometimes, the best ‘help’ comes from an unexpected direction.

        Another thing I did learn was how to (comprehensively) best use my mobile phone, as our three children and our son’s wife could not visit, so I was in touch with them by mobile three times a day (X four people) either with talk or with text with Updates from home here, and then at her bedside in hospital when I was there, so I have used that mobile more this last week than ever before.

        Again Richard, thank you also for your other kind words.

        Tony.

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        • #
          Richard Jenkins

          Tony, Thank you. .Pharmacists are highly qualified and have the responsibility of correcting doctors from killing us

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      • #

        Umm, Tony is in Moderation for a Comment in reply to Richard Greene, timed at 10.21 am.

        Tony

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    • #
      TedM

      Thanks again for another really useful post Tony. The first thing that I look for on any unthreaded is your posts.

      72

  • #

    I have left this second Comment for a separate entry, and even while closely related to the earlier Comment, this will explore the point I wanted to make here.

    A Neurath equivalent plant here in Australia will cost a shirtload of money. (/sarc)

    It will deliver around 17GWH of power to the grid.

    As I have always said, it’s not Nameplate, but actual power delivered.

    So here we have that 17,000GWH (same as 17TWH) of power, or as those wind plant ‘blurbs’ quote, enough to power around two million homes.

    The largest wind plant in Australia is the Coopers Gap plant near Dalby in Queensland. It has a Nameplate of 453MW and at the operational Capacity Factor for current wind power here in Australia, over its hoped for life span of 29.5%, that means it will deliver 1171GWH per year.

    To equal the same output of the new tech brown coal fired plant, that means we need to construct 15 of them, so a Nameplate of all up, 6800MW, almost 84% of the current existing total for all wind power in Australia. So that’s seven and a half of them now, and seven and a half more of them after the first 25 years, so we equal the full 50 years life span power output of the coal fired plant.

    Coopers Gap cost $850 Million, so there’s a total of almost $13 Billion to deliver that same power

    There’s no way known a single new brown coal fired plant will cost anything like that. It’s built on site of the coal mining plant itself so, and, as with most coal fired plants here in Australia, they own their own coal supply, and maintenance for the two Unit plant is infinitely cheaper (repeat infinitely) than for almost 1900 individual wind towers with nacelles on each of them, so almost 1900 Units. And then add on the rehabilitation of those 1900 wind towers and everything attached to the towers.

    Also, the power from the coal fired plant is 24/7, and from the wind plants, highly intermittent, ranging as low as 4% CF to a high of around 67% CF, but never to the full Nameplate.

    But where was I read that renewables are so much cheaper than coal fired power. (Evidently everywhere)

    Tony.

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    • #
      Don B

      Informed people, even those at the New York Times, have known for some time that the rapidly growing nations prefer coal power.

      In a July 1, 2017 article on China energy, the NYT reported that 1,600 coal power plants were either under construction or in the design stage in 62 countries.

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    • #
      John F Hultquist

      Thanks Tony.
      Very interesting material.

      There is in the Wall Street Journal, a pre-publication review by Holman Jenkins of a book by Steven Koonin (due May 4th, on Amazon):
      Unsettled: What Climate Science Tells Us, What It Doesn’t, and Why It Matters.
      Koonin is a fan – in the long run – of advanced nuclear.
      Willis E., just yesterday on WUWT has a post titled:
      “US Green Impossibilities” that speaks of nuclear.

      Seems coal and gas will be the main power sources long after you and I have gone to our just reward. It is a shame we will not be around to watch this play out.

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    • #
      Lucky

      Excellent facts and comments thank you TonyfromOz.
      I just went thru your figures (I am one of those people) to improve my understanding.

      My thinking is, that if the State of Victoria wanted the lowest cost electrical power, highest reliability, with very low environmental implications, and even, quite low CO2 emissions, it would built at least one more large coal station as described. It would need support from flexible gas powered plant for peaking. There are no rational grounds for wind, solar, or for fake hydro expansion.

      The coal is plentiful, cheap to mine being close to the surface, and close to good sites for the new coal stations. The only disadvantage to brown coal is its low energy density so transportation cost is high, not significant if close to the power station. It has little export potential. Your comment gives welcome news that USC is applicable to brown coal as well as black so explaining the low emissions and low cost of generated power. The low cost would attract a bigger market, in neighbor S.Australia, and especially help to bring back smelting and manufacturing, thus employment, to Victoria.

      That would be the result of rational thinking. However, there is opposition. There is a bit of self-interest (rent seeking) but it could be called called religious, false Gaia worship, political to support communism, traitorous to support the nation interests of China against Australia, but maybe Freud was right – it is Thanatos – the death wish.

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      • #
        TdeF

        The exploitation of brown coal was a breakthrough for the new State of Victoria. Prior to that the coal sources were black, coal and for the city of Melbourne, coal was imported from Newcastle by ship. They unloaded at Lagoon pier at Port Melbourne and fed the coal works which vanished with the introduction of natural gas from offshore in the 1970s. Prior to that brown coal was used to make briquettes and gas with giant pressure maintaining gasometers dotted around Melbourne. Our Victorian house built in 1887 was lit by gas and lead pipes were buried in the plaster for wall lights and chandeliers. No sewage or bathrooms but good lights. Electricity came much later.

        This great success in brown coal and the construction of coal power stations in the Yallourn Valley changed Victoria into a manufacturing powerhouse with the cheapest electricity in the world. Henry Bolte invited Alcoa and others to Victoria and they came because electricity cost is the major cost in manufacturing after steel and Victoria had the headquarters of BHP as well. It was a boom time.

        All this has been undone completely by ‘Progressives’ on the left of the Labor party who have destroyed this cheap power base and are quietly funding the few smelting companies in Portland, Port Pirie and Whyalla with hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to get them to stay. Most other industries have left the country. Most noticeably car manufacture, heavy manufacture, agricultural equipment, metal processing. The only things left here are sheet metal and things too big to bring by ship. If the globalist finance games bankrupt our steel industry and that is close with Whyalla for long product, we would be dependent on China as we used to be dependent on the UK.

        As in the United States, the friend of the workers has turned into their enemy. And they wonder why no one is left in the Unions. Wokeness has devastated Victoria and Australia. Even in the United States, workers are increasingly voting Republican because they are the only hope for jobs. The Labor party are importing people by the millions to take all the jobs in their form of globalization, which means opening the floodgates regardless of the consequences.

        And all this is quite indistinguishable from the many enemies of Western Democracy. The Labor Parties and Democrats have been bought by people who are determined to use their wealth to destroy Democracy and manufacturing in particular. And it is working. The first target was ultra cheap and plentiful brown coal electricity. And to do that they vilified carbon dioxide as industrial pollution. It’s quite unbelievable. And the premier Daniel Andrews doing the damage has absolute power and has signed us up improperly to China’s Belt and Road.

        Anyone for a few tens of thousand unserviceable and utterly useless Chinese Windmills? Delivery not included.

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      • #
        Klem

        “My thinking is, that if the State of Victoria wanted the lowest cost electrical power…”

        Why would the government want lowest cost power? Both the power companies and governments want the same thing, they want the highest cost power.

        High power rates generate better revenue to the power companies and they also raise the cost of living. The higher the cost of living the more tax revenue is generated to governments.

        Why do so many people believe that governments want low power rates? It makes no economic sense. They want high power rates, the higher the better.

        31

      • #
        Richard Ilfeld

        I tend to agree that this is rational thinking. But there is a little voice inside of me that says that a single really big plant might represent a single point of failure. Even of the risks are low, If a 3 plants 1/3 the size cost 120% more to get the same net I’d be tempted, for the same reason I keep my portfolio diversified rather than dumping all my assets into the top performing security.

        22

    • #
      Flok

      Thank you Tony, your attention to detail is outstanding and always enjoyable to read.

      Here is a snapshot of some pricing I found in my research:

      Cost to build $/kW as a nameplate:

      Natural gas $837 (can achieve 100% output)
      Wind $1,382 (up to 30% with pat on the back credit)
      Solar $1,848 (up to 25% with generous credit)
      Battery storage $1,239 (does not generate electricity)
      Petroleum liquids $687 (can achieve 100% output)
      ,
      The cost of electricity from temperamentals special price half yearly sale you get 1 for the price of 3.

      Source:
      https://www.eia.gov/electricity/generatorcosts/

      If of interest this site is very informative:
      https://globalenergymonitor.org/projects/global-coal-plant-tracker/summary-data/

      Wish you and your family all the very best !

      62

      • #
        Chad

        Just to add to these cost comparisons….
        The common point argued by RE advocates is that Wind and solare are “free” sources of energy whilst coal as a fuel has a “cost” to produce each MWh.
        This is true, and frequently not mentioned in basic costing comparisons as above.
        (The EIA LCOE calculations do include fuel costs)
        But just to give a flavour of what the “Cost” of coal , adds to our simple comparisons, let me add this….
        Whilst it is true that most coal generators own their own coal mines, there is still a “cost” to mine, prepare and present that coal to the Generator plant.
        Strip mined coal in australia has a “Pit Gate” cost of typically $35/Tonne.
        And using tony figure of 1 tonne every 16 seconds (225 T/h) , or 1,971,000 tonnes per year.
        Over a 50 year life span that would imply roughly 100m tonnes of coal consumed at a total cost of $ 3.5 billion .
        That is a fair chunk of dough, but as Tony says, it is minor in comparison to the $13bn cost of those equivalent RE plants needed to come anywhere near supplying the same amount of energy..

        73

        • #
        • #
          Flok

          Totally agree !

          22

        • #
          Annie

          Coal, oil, water, wind, sunshine are all ‘free’. The infrastructure required to use them is far from free.

          92

          • #
            Chad

            True Aannie,
            But wind and sunshine are delivered free to the generator plant.
            …for coal and gas we have to have additional investment and operational costs before it is able to be used.
            Just trying to complete the picture a little more before some smart ar5e RE evangelist chip in about the cost of “fuels”.

            64

            • #
            • #
              Yarpos

              You could say the same about all the extra infrastructure that is now needed to use that supposed freely delivered wind and sun. Synch condensors, batteries, 100% back up to name a few. Semantics I think. All the options have features and bugs that need to be considered to get the full story. Sadly selective cherry picking is the main game.

              41

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              Chad, Annie has covered that;

              “The infrastructure required to use them is far from free.”

              31

              • #
                Chad

                No, not really.
                I believe Annie’s point was that no matter what energy source you start with, you need “investments” to convert that energy into electricity.
                But, wind and Solar are available at the wind vanes/ PV panels at “no cost”..
                Gas and coal have a direct, ongoing, extra cost per MWh just to make it available at the generator plant.
                Its a significant. “ consumable cost”. of fuel that Wind and Solar does not have.
                But again, my point is that even carrying that additional cost, coal is still the significantly cheaper option.

                11

  • #
    RicDre

    On a previous thread, Tilba Tilba said “Serious question: how is Snowy Hydro 2.0 going? Is it a genuine sensible project or not?” and that got me to doing a little research and I found a couple of interesting articles:

    1) How is Snowy Hydro 2.0 going?

    It appears they are just starting to dig the tunnels:
    Snowy tunnel-borers about to start digging
    Herald Sun31 Mar 2021KIERAN ROONEY

    MASSIVE tunnel-boring machines on the Snowy Hydro 2.0 scheme are about to start digging, with work ramping up on the project that will boost Victoria’s energy supply and power 500,000 homes.

    2) Is it a genuine sensible project or not?

    That is the more interesting question. The literature says that Snowy 2.0 can generate 350 gigawatt hours of electricity, but according to an article I found, “In practice if Snowy 2.0’s lower dam is operated in future as it is now – almost always close to full – the cycling capacity of Snowy 2.0 may be as low as 40 GWh – around one tenth of the promised number.”. Their explanation of why this is so seems reasonable to me, but since I am not a Civil Engineer, I was wondering if someone else out there could take a look at the article and let me know what they think.

    Snowy 2.0 will not produce nearly as much electricity as claimed. We must hit the pause button

    https://theconversation.com/snowy-2-0-will-not-produce-nearly-as-much-electricity-as-claimed-we-must-hit-the-pause-button-125017

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    • #
      TdeF

      What is odd is that this was an idea rejected years ago on simple costing. The calculations have not changed. So it was on the say so of one Malcolm Turnbull who left this white elephant as a giant legacy, along with the $444Million he gave to Lucy Turnbull’s committee to save the Barrier Reef without request or explanation or even a plan. The only thing certain they could say was that $134Million of that was going to be spent on ‘administering’ the money. And does the Great Barrier Reef even need ‘saving’? From what?

      Now where does it say in the Constitution that the Prime Minister owns the country and that all the money is his to spend as he pleases?

      I guess it pales into insignificance against French nuclear submarines modified to run diesel because the Greens do not like nuclear anything. Submarines which will be worse than what we have and cost at least $80Billion and now we read $250Bn. In a country which now does not have any diesel. We would be better off for defence training the sheep as Kamikazes.

      But I suppose Malcolm’s friends in the ABC/SBS really need $1.5 Billion, $30Million a week to entertain him without any accountability, so what’s a few million to Lucy’s friends. It’s a pattern.

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    • #
      Rowjay

      It is being built as a big “battery”, not as a baseload generator. It can be used to absorb all that excess solar produced during the day and top up the grid during peak usage times. “Batteries” are not cheap but are unfortunately necessary in our ever de-stabilised grid, especially during the winter wind stagnation events.

      32

      • #
        Hanrahan

        When looking at Nem Watch I have never seen “excess” wind/solar power or anything close to that. At best it will smooth the demand curve for coal generators reducing the heating/cooling cycles they need do by “a little”

        52

        • #
          Tel

          The wholesale price can go zero or even negative at times which must represent some kind of excess generation … does not matter where exactly those electrons are coming from, if they can be obtained for $0 then might as well use them for storage purposes. Those negative prices typically happen around late morning to early afternoon making it suggestive that solar might be the culprit.

          As additional storage comes online, that negative price anomaly should go away … but as others have already mentioned storage is dang expensive so it actually requires a big difference between buy and sell price to make the thing economically viable at all.

          52

      • #
        MP

        I work in the mineral processing industry, pumping stuff up hill is what we do. It requires approximately 30% more energy to pump the product up hill then can be achieved running it downhill.
        This is a ridiculous concept, you can polish this T*** with as much emotion and virtue signalling as you like, it won’t even develop a shine.

        Snowy hydro 1 has been doing this. They pump the water back up at night, off peak on coal.
        Read an article on renew economy about the virtues of this “big battery” the commenters actually thought this was perpetual motion. (remove all logic and you get todays youth, tomorrows leaders)

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        • #
          wal1957

          remove all logic and you get todays youth, tomorrows leaders

          Sadly, that is so true.
          It also applies to some of our current ‘leaders’.

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          • #
            MP

            Yeah the present leaders know they are misleading all Australians, the next generations only know what they are told they know.

            10

    • #
      David Wojick

      I used to be a water resources civil engineer, even helped build a pumped storage plant. (I was the one crazy enough to be lowered down the 900′ vertical shaft for final inspection.) The numbers sound right. They are building Snowy 2 on top of an existing system which the max output numbers ignore.

      Also, 2000 MW output will be of little help if they try to go 100% renewables. Oz uses a lot more juice.

      However the claim that batteries are a viable alternative is nonsense. The cost would be astronomical. Figure $1,500,000 per MWh.

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        RicDre

        David:

        Thank you for your evaluation of the article!

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      • #
        Chad

        Totally agree with David here.
        Even if the 340GWh is realistic, the fact that the additional generation from SN2 is just 2.0GW means it is a dribble compared to the loss of wind power on a calm day, let alone all the RT solar and Grid solar over night.
        Then, of course you have to have Surplus actual generation available , to refill the storage after use.
        It will be a worthy project, only to prove one and for all how expensive and impractical Pumped Hydro is for energy storage in Australia .

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      Tilba Tilba

      “… Snowy 2.0 can generate 350 gigawatt hours of electricity, but according to an article I found, “In practice if Snowy 2.0’s lower dam is operated in future as it is now – almost always close to full – the cycling capacity of Snowy 2.0 may be as low as 40 GWh – around one tenth of the promised number.”.

      Thanks for all the responses.

      So am I being advised that a huge project is being instigated that will in reality only deliver about 12% of what it projected, and that this fact has been known for a long time?

      Am I also advised that it takes 30% more energy to pump the water uphill than is generated by running it downhill?

      And further I am advised that the lower dam is pretty full a lot of the time, and therefore how can you run a lot more water downhill into it.

      An objective observer might ask why is the project proceeding.

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      • #
        Rowjay

        TT – the Snowy 2 hydro scheme commenced when the NSW electricity supply was heading for real problems ~2026 – check out the following document, NSW Energy Strategy, especially the graph on page 33.
        :
        Note that this was a pre-covid assessment. The closure of coal-fired Liddel PS would have left the state without a reserve backup for those awkward no-wind-at-night scenarios which could be covered by Snowy 2. The head says keep the coal going – even build more plants, Sadly, we no longer live in a logical world.

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    • #
      Serge Wright

      I had a laugh when I read the conversation link at the bottom of your comment “Snowy 2 will not produce nearly as much electricity as claimed ….”

      Snowy 2 will actually not produce any electricity. Instead, it will use significant amounts of electricity. Estimates show is will consume about 20% of the electricity that it stores and then returns back to the grid later, meaning a peak effective consumption of around 400MW/h. This will make Snowy 2 one of the biggest consumers of electricity in the nation, if not the biggest and would equate to Snowy 2 consuming around 20% of the total capacity of all wind farms in service today when operating at maximum capacity.

      Of course the resistance to Snowy 2 by Green groups is only because it was proposed by an LNP government, albeit the far-left leaning Turbull. Obviously if it was proposed by a Labor/Greens government there would be much green fanfare, but the irony here is that with the Green’s political resistance, there is effectively almost zero public support for this project. At a cost of up to $10 billion, it does not generate a single watt of energy, meaning the entire cost will be passed to consumers with no net benefit.

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      • #
        Tilba Tilba

        Snowy 2 will actually not produce any electricity. Instead, it will use significant amounts of electricity. Estimates show is will consume about 20% of the electricity that it stores and then returns back to the grid later, meaning a peak effective consumption of around 400MW/h. This will make Snowy 2 one of the biggest consumers of electricity in the nation

        Do you have some evidence to support this?

        25

        • #
          David Wojick

          I thought the article said 40%? Pumped storage was developed to smooth out demand because baseload generators want to run all the time, especially nukes. They buy cheap power late at night and sell it during peak daily demand. But they consume a lot of power so are poor storage devices for renewables.

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        • #
          Serge Wright

          “Do you have some evidence to support this? ”

          LOL, all climate lefties ask for evidence when people provide facts that don’t suit their ideology.

          btw – did you know that if Australia just by itself moved to net-zero, the planet would cool by 1.5 degrees, the reef would never bleach again and there would be no more fires, floods, droughts or heatwaves, just perfectly distributed rainfall and cool temperates every day. I know this because the ABC says so and therefore it must be true.

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      • #
        Tilba Tilba

        At a cost of up to $10 billion, it does not generate a single watt of energy, meaning the entire cost will be passed to consumers with no net benefit.

        It’s my understanding that Snowy 2 consumes electricity when it’s cheap and plentiful, and then generates electricity when demand is high (and on windless nights).

        So it’s not its net electricity generation that matters, but rather when it can produce it on demand, at a good price, and not by burning fossil fuels to do so.

        15

  • #
    RicDre

    EIA: U.S. CO2 Emissions Declined 11% in 2020 – No Change in Rising Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide

    Anthony Watts

    Climate change action proponents regularly tell us we have to reduce our carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions to prevent “climate change”, even to the point of curtailing industry, travel, and food consumption. Fortunately, a real-world test of just those very things happened in 2020 due to the COVID-19 related lockdowns.

    In a report released April 12th by the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) the Monthly Energy Review, they report that energy-related CO2 emissions decreased by 11% in the United States in 2020 primarily because of the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic and related restrictions.

    Furthermore, U.S. energy-related CO2 emissions fell in every end-use (consumer) sector for the first time since 2012.

    But here’s the rub.

    This big CO2 emission reduction experiment from traditional fossil fuel energy sources so often demanded from climate change alarmists resulted from the global economy being essentially crippled for months, and yet did not matter at all in the grand scheme of global carbon dioxide concentrations, said to be the “control knob” for climate change. Even with that reduction, combined with a 17% upwards shift towards wind and solar, the Earth’s atmosphere didn’t notice – global atmospheric CO2 concentrations continued upwards, unabated in 2020.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/16/eia-u-s-co2-emissions-declined-11-in-2020-no-change-in-rising-atmospheric-carbon-dioxide/

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks RicDre,
      ” Even with that reduction, combined with a 17% upwards shift towards wind and solar, the Earth’s atmosphere didn’t notice – global atmospheric CO2 concentrations continued upwards, unabated in 2020. ”

      Sort of suggests, dare I say “proves”, that Henry was on the right track with his law?
      But I guess the MSM will ignore, or belittle this evidence in its usual fashion.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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    • #
      TdeF

      Agreed and of course not. CO2 is in constant and rapid equilibrium like all gases. The level is set by known physical temperature, mainly surface temperature of the oceans. So CO2 is not warming the oceans, the oceans are releasing CO2 because they are warming, or at least the surface is warming. And the infra red theory does not explain that. So our puny output makes no difference at all. There is not a blip on the graph from anything done by humans, or even volcanoes or bushfires. So they are all irrelevant.

      This is the real proof that it is nonsense. If anyone was really concerned about CO2 levels, they would be measuring and monitoring total CO2 for the effectiveness of say 300,000 giant windmills, not ’emissions’. Nothing anyone has done has had any effect on CO2 levels. There is only the graph of CO2 going up and the unproven and wrong inference that it is caused by the industrial revolution. No one really believes that. The Greens are a political movement. Nothing to do with the planet.

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  • #
    RicDre

    Claim: Global Warming is Causing Strawberries to Shrink

    Guest essay by Eric Worrall

    According to the Aussie ABC, a 3C rise in nighttime temperatures in Nambour is raising costs for farmers by shrinking the size of strawberries.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/15/claim-global-warming-is-causing-strawberries-to-shrink/

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    • #
      glen Michel

      Have you seen the size of local strawberries? Hollow in the middle and largely tasteless. I grow my own berries and they are delicious.

      51

  • #
    RicDre

    Guardian Climate Expose: Big Oil Companies Pay Bonuses to CEOs who Increase Profits

    Guest essay by Eric Worrall

    According to The Guardian, oil executives are so focussed on profit they are ignoring the opportunity to make even more money by investing in renewables.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/15/guardian-climate-expose-big-oil-companies-pay-bonuses-to-ceos-who-increase-profits/

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    • #
      yarpos

      I’m aghast, bonuses for increasing profits? what a concept, no wonder the Guardian considers it news. As those people operate real businesses in the real world it not surprising that they aren’t distracted by some journos thought bubble. They may have been swayed by the telling critique of being to focused on profit to make profit , but to the Guardians dismay they stuck to their knitting and provided the real energy that underpins the modern world.

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      • #
        Richard Owen No.3

        But bear in mind that The Guardian has lost money for many years, so the remaining reporters can feel virtuous.

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        • #
          Harves

          Yes, the Guardian’s idea of a sustainable business model is one where you gradually reduce your quality and relevance until you have to rely on your few customers providing you with handouts/donations to keep you going.

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      • #
        Lucky

        US readers would indeed have been shocked by that expose of CEOs,
        “Bonuses to CEOs who Increase Profits”!

        A big set of major US corporations have recently been quite clear about their purpose:
        – to support BLM, and
        – stop the State of Georgia reducing voter fraud.

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  • #
    RicDre

    ‘Obscene’ windfarm subsidies revealed

    Date: 16/04/21 Press Release, Global Warming Policy Forum

    GWPF research has shown that just six offshore windfarms are now sharing £1.6 billion pounds in subsidies between them every year. Three receive annual subsidies of over a quarter of a billion pounds each year. On a single day in April last year, Hornsea 1 received a subsidy payment of nearly £1.5 million pounds.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/17/obscene-windfarm-subsidies-revealed/

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  • #
    tonyb

    French farmers to receive compensation for frost hit vineyards.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/frost-hit-french-farmers-to-receive-e1b-in-compensation/

    It has been exceptionally sunny here in the UK. Really glorious sparkling weather but with highs around 12C and very cold nights. Still having the central heating on every night and morning

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    • #
      tonyb

      Following hard on the heels of my comment about the frost in France and our Chilly temperatures here in the UK, it is a measure of our low expectations this Spring that we got this headline in the Mail;

      “Super Saturday is here! Shoppers hit Oxford Street as temperatures soar to 53F on first weekend since lockdown rules were eased.”

      Good job it didn’t ‘soar’ to reach 54 or 55F or we would all have been fainting in the heat!

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      • #
        TdeF

        Here in Melbourne, Australia we had perhaps three days in January over 30C (86F). Summer in Melbourne used to mean only three days under 30C and February could reach 45C. No more.

        So when the temperatures are soaring to 53F in the UK, it confirms that we are heading into another Little Ice Age as the Texans and French are aware. So sharpen those ice skates. And pay those massive electricity rates to fund more windmills. Though the solar panels will be a bit of a waste when the infamous fog returns to London.

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    • #
      OldOzzie

      Mate in Godalming said a lot of frost on the ground

      The weather has improved although, we have clear skies, there has been frost overnight for the past week. Things are beginning to grow a bit later this year. However, last years spring was exceptional.

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    • #
      RickWill

      In a previous thread where I challenged anyone to find the actual global temperature of March 2021 and March 1971, Tilba was able to find a link that put March 2021 at a sweltering 12.7C. No doubt he could not find a figure for March 1971 because none of the climate prognosticating groups like to give actual values; they rather stick with anomolies.

      Lets postulate that the earth has indeed warmed 1C since 1971; can you imagine how much more pleasant it was back in March 1971 when the temperature was a truly balmy 11.7C.

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      • #
        Tilba Tilba

        But isn’t the point that ten of the hottest years since records began (1880) have been since 2005? The global warming reality is hard to dismiss on these figures.

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        • #
          tonyb

          you cant take a mish mash of figures from ever changing measurement points that are constantly adjusted and throw them into a pot and expect a scientific measurement from it that gives a global temperature.

          Far better to examine the Koppen climate classification but I don’t think that has ever been meaningfully done.

          According to CET, temperatures have been generally rising since around 1710 (not 1880) Not surprising that temperatures should be warmer today than during the Intermittent little Ice age although many of the individual records from the past still stand

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        • #
          el gordo

          I accept your general hypothesis, but what caused the great climate shift of 1976?

          https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/CaG_GlobalTempAnom_1.jpg

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        • #
          RickWill

          But isn’t the point that ten of the hottest years since records began

          That outcome can be easy placed at the change in instrumentation and locations. The vast majority of temperature gauges have been converted from LIG to electronic in the last 30 years. They have faster response and can easily respond to the exhaust gas of the aircraft at the airports where most remote thermometers are located.

          Also, literally no one or group was measuring temperature globally in 1880. As soon as you see that claim, the alarm bells should be ringing. There were a few locations around the globe that had well established, professional and diligent weather monitoring services in the 1880s.

          Here is a new challenge since you failed on the last one. Find a long term trend in your vicinity that is not subject to urban heat effect or aircraft. Tell me what the temperature was in the location for March 1880 and for March 2020.

          I can give you an example near me:
          http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weatherData/av?p_nccObsCode=36&p_display_type=dataFile&p_startYear=&p_c=&p_stn_num=085096

          March 1880 was 20.9C and March 2020 was 19.5C Not much global warming happening where I live at Latitude 37S.

          All three tropical oceans regulate to 30C so not much global warming happening there as the NCEP record for the Nino34 region demonstrates:
          https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq1iAj8Yo7jNhDOW8OSZi0GNdfp0
          Despite what all the models predict.

          You need to be looking at the data critically and realise that people are being paid handsomely to spin you a myth; unless you are one also benefitting from the myth.

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          • #
            TdeF

            Well said. After all, things go up and things go down. Temperatures have been changing for thousands of years but until now, no one has drawn a conclusion that we are causing it. It is the conclusion which is suspect, not the going up and down which is normal enough.

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          • #
            el gordo

            The models are overblown because they are based on a false premise. Judith Curry rarely uses models these days, which indicates that we maybe able to get the luke warmers on side.

            00

        • #
          el gordo

          The PDO is the main driver, its warm phase began in 1925 and ended in 1947, then a cool phase saw a hiatus in world temperature until 1976 when it flipped to its warm mode.

          https://i2.wp.com/www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/service/global/global-land-ocean-mntp-anom/201401-201412.png?ssl=1

          00

  • #

    You’re not too small to be a target

    “What’s to stop big tech just yanking your free email account with them? Let’s face it, we all depend on email these days and you’re the Muggins who’s allowed themselves to become totally dependent on their free service which they’ve just decided to yank out of your life. It’s not like you’re running some sort of business empire from it, but all your personal and business contacts go through it and although you can fall back to putting pen to paper or telephoning, it’d be a Dickensian step backwards in your lifestyle.”

    Read more at – https://thepointman.wordpress.com/2021/04/16/youre-not-too-small-to-be-a-target/

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    • #
      yarpos

      Left all that last year, for the cost of a cup of coffee per month I have relatively secure email and nobody ratting through the contents. The lack of spam is also an unexpected benefit, down by about 95%

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      • #
        MP

        Which do you use.
        As the emails (everything) goes through your ISP and the government NBN it can be captured.
        This is what I think about with VPN’s, as it has to go through the above to your VPN first, so how is this secure?

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        • #
          Yarpos

          I’m using protonmail atm, but thats as much about de Googling than anything else. Most email is encrypted between you and your server, the issue becomes where it is stored and in some cases as it moves between servers to get to the destination. As orginally designed all mail was tranferred in the clear between message transfer servers (or agents in email speak) That has been addressed but it up to each service provider to implement.

          The VPN isnt a remote thing you pass data to. Its more an encrypted channel that once activated gives you a secure pipe to wherever eg your work network or the Internet somewhere else. All the NBN see is the connection set up and then once the secure connection is setup all they will see is encrypted data to/from your machine to the remote VPN server. They dont know what it contains or where it goes after that.

          All this depends on what you beleive about the spooks ability to decrypt and which ones can do what and who they may be interested in.

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          • #
            Peter C

            All this depends on what you beleive about the spooks ability to decrypt and which ones can do what and who they may be interested in.

            I think they can decrypt practically anything that they want.

            Pointman says they are interested in us (climate deniers, conservatives, people who think the US election was corrupt) etc

            21

            • #
              yarpos

              Gets back to “they” and who they are. I think people like the NSA and its equivalents can do most things if they want to invest the effort and resouces. Back in the 90s the 5 eyes group was alarmed that they had lost sight of Israeli Sigint, as they had become effectively unbreakable. dont know if that was ever recovered. I suspect not , people only seem to know what the Israelis choose to let them know.

              21

          • #
            MP

            I am going to de-google, I have outlook but this is a MSN account, so I think it is not much different in the globalist view.
            I swung over to DDG but chrome seems to be the engine it uses on my PC, I read about the Brave browser but am not sure about it.

            I have gmail, not really concerned about that being spied on, its just google I can’t stand.

            Thanks for your response

            20

    • #
      Tilba Tilba

      “What’s to stop big tech just yanking your free email account with them?

      I don’t have a free account – I bought one when I bought Microsoft Office. Microsoft has no incentive to kill the millions of Outlook users around the world. Your paranoia is on full show, it seems.

      15

      • #

        Hmm. Which is worth more to Microsoft… a captive audience AND a friendly monopoly-happy government OR real competition and a government elected by The PEople?

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      • #
        yarpos

        Doesnt actually address the comment. I have a paid email also, that says nothing about what may or may not happen to free accounts. In the main I think they would stay as they are worth more as harvesting points. In a world where people get de platformed for not toing the party line its only a small leap to email deplatforming. So for the outspoken it seems a possibility and I suspect most have already fled to more secure/neutral platforms.

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  • #
    John R Smith

    Perhaps more aligned with the last thread.

    The Great Global Empire of Fear has been established.
    The Emergency (ies) will never end.
    Climate.
    Viru$.
    Raci$m.
    To deny the influence of the Devil is proof positive you under the influence of the Devil.

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  • #
    graham dunton

    How Cuomo Hid Nursing Home Deaths

    Heartland Weekly
    Host: AM Schieber
    Guest: Gregg Girvan

    Gregg Girvan, a research fellow at FREOPP, has been tracking nursing home deaths since last spring and was one of the first to notice something odd about the counting of deaths in New York.

    https://soundcloud.com/user-694711047/how-the-cuomo-administration-hid-nursing-home-deaths-from-covid-guest-gregg-girvan

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  • #
    el gordo

    Apparently second hand cars in Australia are scarce and expensive, never imagined it could happen. On the ground the word is that the influx of poor expats returning home are responsible for the this drought.

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    • #
      yarpos

      Really? I routinely troll Carsales and haven’t noticed scarcity that much. Prices seem healthly but not unusally high. Its fair to say the overall number of cars for sale is downf. I had put that down to Covid , as we had pulled a car of the market while Melbourne was in chaos. It may well be that I was just projecting and they are down because they get snapped up as you say. I know when I sold our last car, it didnt last long (a cheap classic) and I subsequently bought its replacement within a day or two of it appearing for sale.

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    • #
      John R Smith

      Same here in eastern US.
      I don’t think we have returning poor expats.

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      Second hand four wheel drives and even some new ones mainly Toyota are in hot demand I’ve been looking around and some people are claiming up to four month waiting list for the vehicle then similar and longer waiting lists for custom canopies and trays.
      A 21 year old GU Patrol with leaf springs but all the fruit and in good nick will sell for $30k without much trouble , second hand 79 series Toyota utes sell for around $80k new but if you look you will see second hand ones over $100k because of a few extras fitted.
      There’s a BA falcon XR6 in a local car yard for $14k and it’s just a straight six no turbo so some vehicle owners are enjoying a bit of a windfall and others are forking out a lot of hard earned .
      I do know that the reason for Toyota prices on the 79 series and 200 series is fear of Toyota ditching the V8 which I believe is happening to the 200 series .

      31

      • #
        Yarpos

        My neighbour will be glad to hear that. His Patrol has been a giant money pit, and he is finally selling it after this round of repairs. The buyer may actually get a good deal with a new motor, cooling system bugs worked out and now a new diesel fuel pump (that cost as much as the littl car i just bought)

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    • #
      TdeF

      And my son bought a new Mazda CX-5 as it was cheaper than the second hand one! My only explanation is that people assume second hand cars are cheaper, so they didn’t check. And they are using the bank of mom and dad who didn’t check either.

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      • #
        yarpos

        seems reasonable, how many people used car shopping think “oh. I better check new cars they may be cheaper” odd times we live in

        21

    • #
      ivan

      It will get worse the neared the world gets to banning the sale of new fossil fueled cars in favor of electric ones.

      21

  • #
    RicDre

    From: Week in review – science edition

    by Judith Curry

    Sea levels are rising fastest in big cities – here’s why

    It is well known that climate-induced sea level rise is a major threat. What is less well know is the threat of sinking land. And in many of the most populated coastal areas, the land is sinking even faster than the sea is rising.

    In fact, while the average coastal area experiences relative sea level rise of less than 3mm per year, the average coastal resident experiences a rise of around 8mm to 10mm per year. This is because so many people live in deltas and especially cities on deltas that are subsiding. That’s the key finding of our new research, where we analysed how fast cities are sinking across the world and compared them with global subsidence data including less densely populated coastlines.

    https://theconversation.com/sea-levels-are-rising-fastest-in-big-cities-heres-why-157077

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    • #
      Peter C

      It seems to be all about subsidence.

      Sea level rise gets mentioned many times but is never quantified.

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      • #
        RicDre

        “It seems to be all about subsidence.”

        Good point. Sea Level Rise is probably stated in the full paper but that is pay-walled. I did find this value in one of the paper’s references:

        …the average climate-change–driven rate of sea level rise over these same 25 y of 2.9 mm/y…

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    • #
      Lucky

      This is old news, the one easy explanation, generally correct, is subsidence from the increased extraction and use of groundwater.
      This is inevitable with increased use of water per person.

      No easy solution is apparent, Indonesia is planning to move government functions from Jakarta, maybe there is a way to pump sea water on a large scale into emptying aquifers?

      (It is not the climate crisis).

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  • #
    another ian

    “The original human intra-species violence was between females competing for resources. The prime resource was a strong male who could not only provide food, but also physical protection. For a female without such a resource, one means of gaining the attention of Barney Bigstick was to knobble his present cuddle-mammoth.”

    More at

    https://catallaxyfiles.com/2021/04/17/muddy-primal/

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  • #
    another ian

    “LOCKDOWNS were “worth it” if they saved even one life. Remember? Does it follow that even one death means junk vaccines are not worth it? ”

    More at

    https://catallaxyfiles.com/2021/04/17/losing-control-of-a-carefully-crafted-panic/

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  • #
    RicDre

    The Dawn Of The E-Vehicle Battery Environmental Disaster …Discarded Even Sooner Than Expected

    From The NoTricksZone

    By P Gosselin on 17. April 2021

    It’s all beginning to dawn on the greens: the looming environmental disaster of e-vehicle batteries.

    When it comes to lithium-ion e-vehicles and the environmentalist greens and profiteers:

    They know it’s a disaster.
    We know it’s a disaster.
    They know that we know that they know it’s a disaster.
    But they still pretend it isn’t.

    The huge environmental problems of e-cars are emerging

    Now it’s beginning to dawn on the greens: They’ve got a colossal environmental problem in the works – a problem they were warned about long ago and one they’ve refused to believe was real because it clashed with their vision of a green utopia.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/17/the-dawn-of-the-e-vehicle-battery-environmental-disaster-discarded-even-sooner-than-expected/

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    • #
      Harves

      The usual crowd won’t care… this is all the fault of Trump … CNN says so.

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    • #
      OldOzzie

      I liked

      The dangerous half-knowledge of green central planners

      But that’s the way it is with these self-anointed masterminds, who at their universities were immunized against comprehending the dangers of their half-knowledge. What follows are how disastrous leftist ideas run their course:

      – They’re convinced it’s a brilliant idea
      – Ignore signs and warnings there is a disaster
      – Play down the disaster as it emerges
      – Acknowledge the disaster, but insist solutions are coming
      – Move the goalposts when solution don’t arrive
      – Deny the disaster no matter what. But if you can’t:
      – Then admit there is a disaster
      – And then insist it was never your idea to begin with
      – Hope it will be forgotten
      – Blame it all on others if it isn’t
      ==================================

      *A variation of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s original quote: “We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying.

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    • #
      sophocles

      But but but the lithium-ion batteries are wholly recyclable!

      Yeah. Right.

      Except for those parts which aren’t …

      Same as PV cells and windmills. Right?

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      • #
        Richard Owen No.3

        But as the demand for lithium increases so would the price, making recycling more profitable.
        A small side effect of the price rise is that “really cheap” renewable electricity would become even more expensive (should I add /sarc ?).

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        • #
          sophocles

          It’s the effort required to recycle.
          It’s a lot easier to just biff it into the tip/landfill.

          It’s when the discards ignite under ground you have a major problem. It might not have happended yet — that we know of — but if/when it does it’s going to become … interesting.

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Surely our Green politicians, and their Labor and Coalition allies, would volunteer to use their garages as storage for old batteries until a recycling capability becomes available, something they would have thought of and planned for in their advocacy for EVs. Surely?
      But perhaps not.
      So they might have to have a little bonfire to clear their accumulation. The bonfire which might need no matches.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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        yarpos

        I thought old EV batteries may be of interest to the budget off grid / prepper crowd. Only a limited market and not an answer to the core market of course.

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    MP

    Here is the CDC document on the SAR’s COVID 2 isolate.
    Spent most of my day looking up the big words and cell lines.
    My highly unqualified take is they could not get the virus to grow on any culture except monkey, even the dead bats wanted nothing to do with it let alone human cell lines.

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0516_article
    https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search?term=VeroE6&interface=All&N=0 VeroE6 is African Green Monkey, Kidney cells.
    HUH7 cells http://huh7.com/ originally taken from a liver tumor in a 57-year-old Japanese male.

    The CDC can only supply the cell line cultured on monkey bits as they cannot grow it on human cell lines. FOI requests for the culture grown without Monkey cells are rejected.

    Here is a bit of info on the PCR, it requires annealing from a separate heat source, so I don’t know how these bench top tests are done in the car park?
    https://geneticamedicala.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/pcr-principle-advantages-and-disadvantages/

    Gee Aye, what is your take on this, please?

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      There is a lot there and you didn’t explain the issue. What is the question?

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      • #

        I can answer the carpark question. There are portable/luggable/transportable PCR machines

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        • #
          MP

          Thanks, But are these portable ones being used, I seen drops into a (drug test) gadget and a line change colour, I know there are a couple of types.
          The question is, your opinion on this paper regarding the virus isolate, my poor understanding of it is the virus can only be grown on monkey cells?
          This template, what is it exactly, I followed a few links, is it the code on a program?

          Thank you

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          • #

            I have no idea but if they are doing PCR tests in a carpark that is what they are doing. If they are doing something else then it is not a PCR test.

            Most tests are collected and sent to labs. I can’t see PCR tests in carparks as being very common. You need a bunch of other infrastructure to make that work – a whole portable lab (which do exist but not in numbers)

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          • #

            Sorry not able to spend the time to get to those links.

            I’m not familiar with the cultural methods. It transmits from human to human so there is lots of wild culturing happening. There is also a lot of disinformation about what Koch’s postulates are and their significance.

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              MP

              No not the postulates. The paper itself, reads to me that they are unable to grow this virus on human cells, only on Bubbles (Ht MJ) the monkey.
              Just wanted your opinion on the paper.

              Cheers

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                MP… this paper describes a method of culturing the virus not a study on whether it can be cultured in human cells. Cultured cells are strange things in many ways and viruses are difficult to nail a good culture method. An actual human is quite different from cultured cells even if you were to culture the virus’s target cell type you could not guarantee infection.

                I did not go into the literature to look at how well the virus can be cultured in human cells but I’d be unsurprised if result were poor. This is the point of the paper – they’ve found a good way to make lots of virus in the lab.

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              MP

              Sorry for the delayed response, I was harassing a Gee Aye on another thread and rereading the paper, takes me ages as every second word I have to look up, then I have to look up words to look up the word.

              Human cell lines, including human adenocarcinoma cells (A549), human liver cells (HUH7.0), and human embryonic kidney cells (HEK-293T).
              They were unable to replicate it in human cells.
              This CPE they mention, there are a hundred definitions http://acronymsandslang.com/meaning-of/medicine-and-science/CPE.html I do not understand what this means?

              Because research has been initiated to study and respond to SARS-CoV-2, information about cell lines and types susceptible to infection is needed. Therefore, we examined the capacity of SARS-CoV-2 to infect and replicate in several common primate and human cell lines, including human adenocarcinoma cells (A549), human liver cells (HUH7.0), and human embryonic kidney cells (HEK-293T), in addition to Vero E6 and Vero CCL81 cells. We also examined an available big brown bat kidney cell line (EFK3B) for SARS-CoV-2 replication capacity. Each cell line was inoculated at high multiplicity of infection and examined 24 h postinfection (Figure 3, panel A). No CPE was observed in any of the cell lines except in Vero cells, which grew to >107 PFU at 24 h postinfection. In contrast, HUH7.0 and 293T cells showed only modest viral replication, and A549 cells were incompatible with SARS-CoV-2 infection. These results are consistent with previous susceptibility findings for SARS-CoV and suggest other common culture systems, including MDCK, HeLa, HEP-2, MRC-5 cells, and embryonated eggs, are unlikely to support SARS-CoV-2 replication (20–22). In addition, SARS-CoV-2 did not replicate in bat EFK3B cells, which are susceptible to MERS-CoV. Together, the results indicate that SARS-CoV-2 maintains a similar profile to SARS-CoV in terms of susceptible cell lines.

              If they could not infect human cells how is this infectious to humans . They found a good way of making monkey virus is how I read it.
              I know its way over my head, but thanks for tolerating me.

              00

  • #
    Hanrahan

    Another expert goes to court on the algorithm used to switch votes last year, it was a six deg polynomial. I will not comment and expose my high school maths. 😀

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG2V_bWLRqo

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    Harves

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/16/scientific-survey-shows-voters-across-the-political-spectrum-are-ideologically-deluded/

    On average, the rates at which voters gave false answers varied from 61% for Biden voters to 42% for Trump voters. From worst to best, the false answer rates for the various groups are as follows:

    61% for Biden voters
    56% for 18- to 34-year olds
    53% for females
    51% for 35- to 64-year olds
    51% for 65+ year olds
    49% for males
    42% for Trump voters

    I wonder which mainstream media outlet will publish that older, Trump-voting males are smarter than young, leftist women?

    Note – Trump voters are almost 50% more likely to know the truth than Biden voters.

    Is anyone surprised?

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    OldOzzie

    It Was Worse Than We Thought: NO ONE Met Japanese Prime Minister at the White House Door Except Stationary Army Guard

    In a highly disrespectful and embarrassing move, Kamala Harris welcomed Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga to the White House on Friday.

    Joe Biden was nowhere to be found as Kamala Harris welcomed Yoshihide Suga, the first foreign leader to visit the Biden White House.

    But it was way worse than we originally reported.

    No one met Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga at the door when he arrived.

    The only one standing there was a stationary Army guard.

    Compare and contrast:

    Japanese Prime Minister Joshihide Suga was the first world leader to visit the White House since Biden’s installation, and the poor form began with no-one greeting the head of the Japanese government upon arrival. When you consider the leftist narrative about stopping Asian hate, there is a rather ironic aspect to this visit and snub.

    Once Prime Minister Suga was inside the White House he was shunned for the greeting by his diplomatic peer, Joe Biden. Instead, Kamala Harris was dispatched to deliver introductory remarks. Beyond the inappropriate form, the subtle message of Kamala Harris being the acting head of the executive branch was on display.

    Then when Vice President Kamala was sent down to greet the Japanese Prime Minister she spent more than a full minute trashing the US as a violent place as Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga stood next to her waiting to be introduced.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    This is an obscene transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich Leftist Elites who are invested in these subsidy-harvesting monstrosities.

    https://climatechangedispatch.com/obscene-wind-farm-subsidies-exposed-by-new-data/

    ‘Obscene’ Wind Farm Subsidies Exposed By New Data

    The Global Warming Policy Forum has condemned what it called the “obscenity” of wind farm subsidies and has called for a complete rethink of energy policy.

    GWPF research has shown that just six offshore wind farms are now sharing £1.6 billion pounds in subsidies between them every year.

    Three receive annual subsidies of over a quarter of a billion pounds each year. On a single day in April last year, Hornsea 1 received a subsidy payment of nearly £1.5 million pounds.

    The level of subsidy is sufficient to cover the construction cost of these wind farms in just six or seven years, meaning that future payments will represent almost pure profit for the operators.

    The cost of the Contracts for Difference regime is accelerating, and rose by £0.7 billion last year alone, reaching £2.3 billion in 2020. Consumers are already paying out £6 billion under the Renewables Obligation and another £1 billion under the Capacity Market.

    Direct subsidies, therefore, amount to an annual payment from each household of £350, a sum that is rising by at least £25 per year.

    See link for rest.

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    David Maddison

    An open letter to Leftist Elite John Kerry, who like his comrades, prefers a private jet as his means of transportation.

    https://townhall.com/columnists/vijayjayaraj/2021/04/17/untitled-n2588091

    Vijay Jayaraj | Apr 17, 2021 12:01 AM

    An Open Letter to John Kerry from People Living in Energy Poverty

    Dear Mr. Kerry,

    I write to you from India, a country you visited recently. Before I share my thoughts about some of your policy recommendations to my nation, I would like to mention a small note: When you ran for President in 2004, your pictures appeared in the local newspapers in India. Sitting in a remote, underdeveloped part of southern India, as a young high school student I wanted you to win that year. You did not, but I was hopeful that you would make it big in politics, and you did! Congrats!

    However, 16 years later, I cannot help but send you this letter of disappointment. You see, back in 2004, when I was supporting you to win, India was way behind in the development index. Electricity, especially, was a luxury. 350 million people in India were without electricity. The U.S population in 2004 was around 292 million. So, literally, you had more people in India without electricity than the entire population of the U.S. Imagine young students like me being unable to study for our exams because power blackouts after sunset were more predictable than water supply in our taps!

    Thankfully, India, like China, and a few other developing nations, understood that energy poverty can only be alleviated through embracing abundant and affordable energy resources—both domestically and from foreign shores. Hence, India muscled its way through in its fight against energy poverty. Coal, oil, and gas together alleviated energy poverty. By 2017, India began producing surplus electricity, and by 2019 it electrified all of its villages. Today, we are an energy superpower, and much of the credit goes to the thousands of tireless workers at Coal India Ltd, the state electricity authorities, liquified petroleum gas (LPG) cooking gas distributors, and various organizations involved in the extraction and refining of oil and gas products.

    Mr. Kerry, you have asked India to reduce its dependency on these life-saving fossil fuels! But your policy recommendations to my country of 1.3 billion people threaten the energy security and livelihood of my people. More than 70 percent of our electricity comes from coal, and fossil fuels dominate our energy mix. They are forecasted continue doing so at least until 2047. Sadly, 300 million in our country still live in poverty, and many more do not have uninterrupted electricity. A vast majority of my people still use unsafe, highly polluting solid cooking fuels like wood and dung and have yet to transition to clean sources like LPG.

    Your request for Indian leaders to push back on fossil fuel may win you diplomacy points, but it will do no good for the people whose future is dependent on a strong fossil fuel-backed energy sector. In fact, much of the success that you enjoy in the U.S was made possible only because of coal and oil. And in recent years, natural gas has helped your economy reduce dependency on energy imports. We’re every bit as human as you and your fellow Americans. So, why should we be starved of the same energy sources you have enjoyed for two centuries—and still do?

    Sorry, We Can’t Sit in the Dark While You Fly Around in a Private Jet

    Mr. Kerry, it would have been appropriate if you “walked the talk” when it comes to climate-change politics. You are asking poor Indian families to forgo oil and gas, but you don’t embrace the climate gospel you are preaching. How is it okay for my people to go back into an era of power blackouts when you can fly your oil-guzzling private jet to Iceland to accept an award—and call it “only choice for somebody like me.” Well, Mr. Kerry, I have to let you know that the only choice for India to fight against energy poverty is to use reliable, affordable fossil fuels, not unreliable, expensive, toxic wind and solar.

    Also, Mr. Kerry, is it true that one of your private jets flew 2200 miles on 8 April 2021, a jetliner capable of emitting 40 times more per passenger than a regular commercial flight? I strongly believe that every person who is capable of owning a private jet should be free to own one. You’ve made your way up the ladder, and you own private jets. It’s fine with me for you to save your time.

    But why would be against 300 million people, most living in some of the poorest living standards, getting uninterrupted, affordable electricity access? Instead, you should stop promoting renewable energy as renewable and clean. There is no wind turbine without coal, and renewables have increased the price of electricity in every grid to which they’ve been introduced. Besides, I am sure you remember your own blackouts in California and Texas this year, thanks to renewables.

    I won’t use the word hypocrisy, because I believe all people must be empowered, whether you or anyone else. I’m glad you are doing well enough financially to own a private jet. I only wish you wouldn’t deprive the world’s poor of their chance to improve their livelihoods.

    Please, Mr. Kerry, leave the developing countries alone. If you cannot help us, do not hurt us by preaching the climate gospel. Don’t force us to remain in darkness. You are talking about saving the world, yet you are asking leaders in the developing world to risk their own energy security and harm millions!

    Mr. Kerry, a gentle reminder: Your travel to India, your stay in India (however short it was), and the transportation used by those people whom you met during your visit—all were empowered by the very fossil fuels against which you preach!

    P.S.: If you really want your people to reduce emissions, lead them by your actions. Take a sailboat instead of a jet. It would help if you reduced your own emissions before asking your fellow Americans to do it. But, please, leave the developing countries alone.

    Vijay Jayaraj (M.Sc., Environmental Science, University of East Anglia, England), is a Research Contributor for the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation and resides in India.

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      David Maddison

      The above got a red thumb. Question for red thumb troll – what did you find objectionable about that letter?

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        MP

        Normally I would give you a red for the mention of that, as is the rules of thumb club.
        I noticed someone went down every comment at that time and did that, would have to be someone who has accumulated thousands of red thumbs and are trying to unload.
        Bill in Oz at one point ran the internet out of red pixels, I think he is returning them as I know he is still up there. 🙂

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        MP

        Sorry, had a think and rules is rules.

        02

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        Annie

        Brilliant letter, thankyou for posting it David. I puzzle over that silly red thumb…ignore it!

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      RickWill

      Mostly good but the writer uses that inappropriate word “renewable” to describe weather dependent generators. Then goes on to contradict that by stating that weather dependent generators can only be built using coal. That is a once off. The next time they are replaced they have to use more coal – WDGs offer no end of coal. They increase the requirement for coal. They are horribly resource hungry sources of energy.

      The word “renewable” should be discarded from the English language. It no longer has meaning based on its derivation.

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      Ronin

      Kerry, another hypocrite just like Prince Harry and his [Snip]AD & Leo whats-is-name.

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      Yarpos

      East Anglia? the poms clearly have more academic freedom than we do.

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  • #
    Analitik

    Here’s an interesting article by Joe Hildebrand that I found through American Thinker.

    About 1500 NSW Electrical Trades Union members were surveyed about how they felt they would vote in the future.

    around 60 per cent of survey respondents report a decrease in their support with 25 per cent indicating they no longer vote Labor

    The staggering results are driven by a sense that Labor is no longer focused on the “bread and butter” issues of jobs and wages and instead preoccupied by issues such as gender, climate change and “identity politics”.

    they think the party has been overrun by “woke ideals” and “white-collar university educated yuppies”.

    Funnily, there is no mention of anything about this by the ABC, SBS and most other mainstream news outlets.

    https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/f-you-well-vote-pauline-hanson-workers-desert-labor-over-partys-obsession-with-woke-ideals/news-story/cc0f139c169b4c81a5de54d15f9c555f

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      Analitik

      Most telling is

      The survey found 42 per cent of union members saw “gender issues” as the biggest distraction to what government should really be focusing on, followed by climate change at 34 per cent.

      Of course, the left has engineered a takeover of this branch since the survey so I guess it’s irrelevant to the MSM now

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    David Maddison

    Dr Sam Bailey is a New Zealand medical doctor and is very sceptical about aspects of the ‘Rona.

    I would appreciate comments on one of her recent videos.

    https://odysee.com/@drsambailey:c/covid-19-dr-sam-faqs:a

    The same video on YouTube:
    https://youtu.be/tQoC39n4QP8

    She has many more videos on Brandnewtube:

    https://brandnewtube.com/@Drsambailey

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      MP

      I like her work, I view her stuff on bitchute, , https://www.bitchute.com/video/W9BxyMzfFgK5/ don’t know why I stick with bitchute as it is the worst platform available.

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      Sirob

      David,

      I read the book “Virus Mania” a few years back. I have noted that Sam Bailey has now joined the Virus Mania team of authors. The revised book she was involved with – which I haven’t yet read – looks into much of the SARS-Cov2 and Covid-19 so I’m looking to read it.

      Her recent videos regarding SARS-Cov2 “isolation” and virus isolation in general are a nice summary which gets to the heart of what is problematic with the virus theory.

      Here are the two latest.

      https://brandnewtube.com/v/qoebaI (Has SARS-Cov2 Been Isolated?)

      https://youtu.be/huEaH-boaoY (The Truth about Virus Isolation)

      I’d be nice to see Jo’s comments on this.

      62

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    David Maddison

    Conservative Rebel News channel has been suspended from YouTube following their channel being demonetised putting a US$400,000 hole in their budget. They have published 15,000 conservative oriented videos over 6 years without one single strike and have over one million subscribers. The title of the “offending” video which was published months ago, believe it or not, was “If Big Tech can silence Trump, they can silence anyone”. Australia’s Avi Yemeni is the Australian reporter for Rebel News.

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      Broadie

      We may be watching the Monty Python Black Night fight scene in ‘Monty Python and the Holy Grail’ only in this script the Black Knight is cutting off its own appendages in the confrontation.
      Twitter, Youtube and Facebook are removing the sites that underpinned their original funding model in a grab for more State funding. They better hope the CCP are kinder to them than they have been to Alibaba or Hunter’s mate when they are standing there without any means of defending themselves, having lost their power.

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    RickWill

    Can you guess what I found when I checked the tropical ocean warm pools temperature today:
    https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/ocean/surface/currents/overlay=sea_surface_temp/orthographic=56.49,-5.11,634/loc=50.348,-5.279

    Yep – 30.8C is the maximum; located to the east of Africa. From April through May, the Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal usually become one large warm pool until they start spawning cyclones that cause rapid cooling

    The Atlantic warm pool has shrunk a little in the last day but still making 30C west of Africa.

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      el gordo

      Are those warm pools only temporary?

      23

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        RickWill

        Are those warm pools only temporary?

        The move around a good deal – thousands of kms. There are two main factors in the regulating process. Once there is a major cloudburst, the water from slightly cooler zones converges. That supplies more precipitation to the warm pool which adds to cooling and and reduces cloud over the adjacent zones so they begin to warm rapidly until the convergence moves on to that warmer region.

        When I looked for the warm pool data from the moored buoys I found they remain in a warm pool for around 2 weeks. The link shows the warm pool in the Atlantic ocean at 4N 23W:
        https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq1iAj8Yo7jNhB84cp–iNp5c5wd
        You can see by day 14 it is dropping below 30C with a few increases above 30C before it begins to stay below 30C from day 20.

        Also you can see the temperature overshoots a few days early in this record and the major convergence occurs on day 13 with a huge amount of rainfall exceeding 50mm/hr that knocks a degree or two off the surface temperature. The warm pool basically moved on after the convergence but that is no always the case.

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      el gordo

      Its interesting to note that El Nino conditions were dominant during glaciation and La Nina more common in the Holocene, but getting to the chase, the Indo-Pacific Warm Pool.

      ‘… SSTs in the IPWP during the LGM were 3􏰁C cooler than at present. In the central portion of the IPWP, the rapid post-glacial rise in SST led the deglaciation by 3000 years to produce near-modern SSTs by the early Holocene.’ (Gagan et al 2004)

      12

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        RickWill

        Linked image shows the sea surface temperature:
        https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/ocean/cdas-sflux_sst_global_1.png

        The temperature regularted zone runs from about 60E to 160W; about 140 degrees longitude. I assume the Indo-Pacific being referred to is the portion north of Australia. At the LGM the coastline was vastly different to what it is now with a lot more exposed land surface so there is a good chance the land had much greater influence than now.

        During the last period of glaciation both the Pacific and Indian Ocean were hardly affected. Both were reaching the same temperatures as now but the 28C surface isotherm in the Pacific was a little further west than now. The Atlantic was cold with a maximum tropic sea surface temperature of 26C.

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    David Maddison

    In the US the once authoritative “journal of record”, but now propaganda journal, The New York Times, are now altering, adjusting or misrepresenting the prevalence of forest fires in the US.

    Tony Heller discusses:

    https://rumble.com/vfqr2p-ny-times-rewriting-and-hiding-history.html

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    David Maddison

    Tony Heller’s latest video. Some great stuff on here…

    “Herding the sheep.”

    https://rumble.com/vfquln-herding-the-sheep.html

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    Richard Owen No.3

    Just a thought:
    In the radiation hypothesis CO2 is supposed to ‘trap’ infrared radiation coming from the Earth’s surface. This is contrary to John Tyndall’s finding in 1860 that it did absorb IR but radiated it quickly.
    A more sophisticated approach is that absorption is followed by radiation of about half the IR back towards the Earth’s surface. Some of the upwards radiation is also absorbed and radiated back towards the surface, reinforcing the warming effect. This implies that there is an excess of IR, as more CO2 absorbing results in a higher surface temperature. (I gloss over the 70% of water surface as I don’t believe it radiates IR significantly).

    I ask what happens at the top of the atmosphere? NASA tells us that
    the atmosphere is well mixed and
    the sun’s output doesn’t change.**
    So a rising CO2 level at the top of the atmosphere must absorb more IR there (sunlight approx. 27% IR) and any re-radiation will result in slightly more than half going directly into space (curvature of Earth and lack of water vapour up there). A higher level of CO2 results in less of the sun’s energy reaching the ground, resulting in some reduction in previous recorded temperatures.

    This could explain the hiatus, in that the base line is shifting downwards. It is also in accord with NASA’s statement that satellites have measured rising radiation from CO2.

    ** Usually raises eyebrows among astronomers as it would make the Sun unique, but it unique as we know of no other star with planets populated by humans who think they can control the climate.

    52

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    Harves

    Has any leftist politician or Hollywood celebrity ever explained what they’ve done to reduce their carbon footprint to that of the average citizen?
    Once they are on track to achieve my current level of emissions let me know.

    52

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    el gordo

    Northern Australia has become wetter over the past 60 years, while SWWA has experienced droughty conditions.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002216942031338X

    13

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    dinn, rob

    largest troop movement since WWII–huge arsenal set against Ukraine https://balance10.blogspot.com/2021/04/largest-troop-movement-since-wwii-huge.html

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      greggg

      Russia do not want Ukraine to join NATO.

      ‘The amassing of troops is the Kremlin’s heavy-handed response to what it interprets as a coordinated attempt by Biden and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to upset the fragile equilibrium which underpinned a relative calm on the front line in eastern Ukraine.’
      ‘Ukraine’s NATO membership is a clear red line not just for the Kremlin, but for Russian society as a whole. It would place hostile troops just 500km (310 miles) south of Moscow, in addition to them already being stationed 600km (373 miles) to the west of the Russian capital, in Baltic countries. This would not only elicit a hostile response from the Kremlin, but it would also solidify Putin’s regime for years to come and marginalise the currently fledgeling anti-Putin opposition.’

      https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/4/13/what-is-behind-the-growing-tensions-in-ukraine

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    David Maddison

    In Vicdanistan there’s plenty of “free stuff” to be had by all. There’s unlimited amounts of money provided by the fairies.

    One of these schemes for free stuff is that you can have all the applicable globes in your house replaced for free with LED’s. E.g. you can have CFL lamp globes replaced.

    Consider a modest size property with 20 CFL lamps of 15W replaced with an equivalent 7W LED. Average use per day for each lamp one hour. Some will be more, others less, and that’s a generous estimate. You use 0.3kWh with CFLs or 0.14kwH with LED’s. At 30c per kWh the saving per day is 0.16kWh worth 4.8c per day or $17.52 per year. Cost of globes at say $5 each wholesale is $100. Cost of installation, paid for by the fairies, probably no less than $100. So outlay is $200 to save $17.52 per year over life of globes.

    Also, in terms of coal, saving per year is 0.16kWh × 365 = 58.4kWh. A figure is 326g of coal are used to produce 1kWh of electricity so you save 18.7kg of coal.

    Naturally it makes no economic sense, and no sense at all from any perspective, but that’s Vicdanistan and Australia in general for you.

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      Flok

      Belt and Road… showing how the process works for China products.

      Mentioned LED lights are to be installed by a qualified electrician, I told them to go and jump.

      But the next door neighbour signed up. A week later, a brand new 4×4 Toyota LC turns up (no markings to advertise an electrical company), a guy with no safety gear opens the boot and takes 4 LED lights and a ladder to do the job. 10 minutes maximum.

      Over the last 20 years we had ample of examples relevant to energy efficiency of homes.

      Roof insulation. More efficient vehicles, switch from coal to gas, all other nonsense with solar and wind. Money spent on pretences of reducing CO2 (by all countries) and not even a dent on a wall in reducing CO2 output or reducing CO2 atmospheric levels.

      It is about the money and fixing the easy problem since it does not exist.

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      Tel

      So outlay is $200 to save $17.52 per year over life of globes.

      But, but, the original Kevin Rudd CFL bulbs still have ten years left before THEY pay for themselves!

      That said … put the same $200 into a Westpac term deposit for a year and get a generous 0.35% p.a. fixed rate (just checked their website) which earns you all of 70c … and then they take tax out of that. Australian banking makes those whacky lightbulb scams start to look good, huh?

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      Kalm Keith

      The vitally relevant bit wasn’t missed;

      “Australia in general for you”.

      Scotty’s next marketing pitch Will probably be something like;

      ” we’re here to help, would you like your house painted for free, just thank us by voting us back. And don’t worry about the debt, the next lot will pay that off or maybe we can just inflate it away into insignificance. ” 🙂

      KK

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    Dennis

    Not tonight Josephine.

    Love

    Napoleon.

    [Just fixing a glitch Dennis]AD

    41

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    josephine

    Ok, first time in . . . . . as expected . . . . .
    Now let’s see what happens . . . . .

    10

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    josephine

    No, didn’t log off . . . . and didn’t see this before I sent another message . . . I’ll try again after logging off . . . .

    00

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    el gordo

    Beijing has a strategy on climate change.

    ‘China said it was looking forward to raising global climate ambitions on mitigation, adaptation and support ahead of the 26th United Nations Climate Change Conference of the Parties (COP 26), which will be held in Glasgow in November.’ (SCMP)

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    Kalm Keith

    Earlier this afternoon I was driving with the radio on and our President Morrison told me that he was giving South Australia a good sum of money so that the people of S.A. could have cheap renewable energy and an interconnector to a nearby state that doesn’t want one.

    That’s it.

    I’m finished with him.

    That’s ugly, unprincipled and against all principles of proper government.

    Bailouts don’t work; S.A. Voters got rid of the renewable scam They thought, but it’s still on their backs.

    KK

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      I think he’s offering a billion dollars. Does that make him twice as generous (with our money) as Trumble?
      I’ve also given up on the Coalition.
      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-18/energy-and-emissions-reduction-deal-south-australia/100077114
      Cheers
      Dave B

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        Len

        Albanese and the Communists are much worse option. Who are you going to vote for?

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          ivan

          That is the problem with proportional representation voting system – there is no way of saying ‘I don’t want any of these persons getting my vote except the first one I chose’.

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            Kalm Keith

            The only problem is that voters rarely think for themselves and just “follow the ticket”.
            That’s the only real problem with the system.

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            yarpos

            No way? really? there is no way to send that message if you think about your vote for a couple of minutes?

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          Kalm Keith

          I used to think that, and in my entire life have only ever voted Libl Parti twice, and that was to get rid of Laba from an electorate. Successful on both occasions.
          On every other occasion I’ve looked through the candidates and picked a possible decent person, yes it’s hard.
          At the most recent election I voted for that new party and took great care to sort and number my preferences right down to the end where the Libls and Laba took pride of place.

          How to vote sheets are useful if you haven’t prepared in advance. Just get the two bigfellas and reverse the order.
          Of course, for most voters, it doesn’t matter; they have endured media bombardment and vote according to the perception that leaves them with.
          So they don’t think, and vote Libl or Laba and wind up effectively getting no benefit from their vote as in the current S.A. drama.

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          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          G’day Len,
          My next vote is in the NSW State by-election for the Upper Hunter electorate, in which I have the privilege of optional preferential voting. That means I can leave out the Greens and the other majors and any other green-leaning independents. I think that leaves two candidates worth considering.
          I’d have a bigger problem if the same set were presented in a Federal election for the Reps, where the preferential system is compulsory. There I’d still have to put the Greens last, and probably work backwards.
          Cheers
          Dave B

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        Kalm Keith

        Thanks for the link, it’s a sign of the times that they would publicise it.

        Obviously they assume that the trusting public won’t understand that it is just a controlled money churn with outlet taps at appropriate places for the Libls and friends and hangers on and close family, Alex?, to drink from.

        China will lend him the money.

        As long as they can buy another little Australian island.

        KK

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    Hanrahan

    Is Australia still the Lucky Country as proposed by Donald Horne? I think so. It is 90 years since the Great Depression when we suffered quite badly but we seem to have skated since.

    We are going to come out of the pandemic better’n most with our debt/GDP half that of the US, far fewer deaths and with unemployment back to 5% this year. Our knockers rubbish our dependence on mining but most commodities are at high, if not record prices and we are good at it. Efficiency allows miners [who work hard for their $] to be paid well.

    Is this good luck or good planning? I say good luck and LACK of a grand vision from our pollies. Whitlam [thankfully] was the last hell-bent on changing the world, Rudd was a wouldabeen but even his own party saw the danger there. How can the US prosper when each new President immediately reverses the outgoing one’s work, good or bad, with a dozen + executive orders which get zero legislative scrutiny?

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      yarpos

      we certainly seem to be living up to his summary of stupid inept government, basically propped up by natural resources. We need to be more than a quarry.

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      Kalm Keith

      We have no basic commercial functionality.

      Iron and steelmaking almost non existent, and on the brink of collapse. The same for aluminium production, almost deliberately shut down by electricity ugliness.

      Australians are keen to work but have been failed in the most irresponsible fashion by self interested politicians.

      In America, Trump heard what the people were saying and rebuilt the country’s manufacturing base and the voters turned up in droves to thank him at the rallies.

      The Dems didn’t like the fact that voters had a refreshed sense of self worth and have begun tearing it all down again: they thrive on a dependent population.

      What’s happened in the U.S. over the last year is beyond belief but it’s coming to a country near you.

      Go Scotty go.

      KK

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    greggg

    In South Australia

    ‘Being able to turn off solar isn’t enough. The Government now wants electricity retailers to be able to switch off your air-con and pool pumps.
    Household air conditioners, pool pumps, hot water systems and electric vehicle chargers would be switched off remotely when the power grid is under pressure, under changes planned by the State Government.
    The appliances could also be switched on externally – rather than by the householder – when there is not enough demand in the system, the Energy and Mining Department says.’

    https://stopthesethings.com/2021/04/18/beyond-help-power-rationing-new-normal-in-wind-solar-powered-south-australia/

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      Hanrahan

      I thought this was normal. In Qld we have Tariff 33 which is 16.3c V 21.5c/kWh standard. It started with hot water which is permanently wired and now can be used for other permanently wired appliances that you are willing to have switched off for an hour or so during the evening peak. Split system aircons can be connected to either bus, your choice. If it would be unbearable to have your aircon off at 6 PM you stay on the normal tariff.

      I have no doubt that if you get a high power, dedicated EV charge point installed it will be mandated that it SHALL be on the switched supply.

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      • #
        Mike

        Up my way (Nth Qld) the appliances on Tariff33 have been shut down for longer than an hour. This shut down period has been increasing during periods of high demand eg. Hot summer early evenings. This is a voluntary measure currently, but…….

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    Kalm Keith

    Peak lunacy!

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    David Maddison

    Facebook has just cancelled a group dedicated to talking about covid vaccine side effects which had 120,000 members.

    Questioning the government/WHO narrative is prohibited on Facebook.

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    • #
      Flok

      I have cancelled my facebook and a large chunk of family have cancelled theirs as well.

      No other social media accounts. Cancel culture works both ways.

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    Peter C

    I just watched the funeral of Prince Phillip, the Duke of Edinburgh.

    Very impressive as expected.

    I was interested that part of the oration was devoted to reflections about the weather. Not man made apparently.

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      Annie

      We stayed up to watch it, and went to bed well after 0100. The broadcast from the BBC via the ABC was pretty good most of the time. Huw Edwards managed to be quiet for most of the service. It was very moving, especially after finding out so much more about the Duke over the last few days. A big thank you to Jo for showing the letter to Ian Plimer; it helped to redress the wrong impression given by the misused quote about a lethal virus (which had upset me). The whole thing was very moving indeed and, like so many others, we just wanted to hug HM The Queen, looking so vulnerable and grief-stricken. The music was wonderful, the readings and brief comments exactly in keeping, the playing of The Last Post was the best we’ve ever heard it and we were so proud of the military; the Royal Navy, the Royal Marines, the Army and the Royal Air Force. Special pride in the Royal Corps of Electrical and Mecanical Engineers, my husband’s old corps, with their work on Prince Philip’s adaptation of the Landrover, which was driven by a REME corporal. RIP HRH, Prince Philip, The Duke of Edinburgh.

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        Annie

        Mechanical, oh dear, I thought I’d proof-read it.

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        Peter C

        Thanks Annie,

        I agree with all of that. Life will be harder for Her Majesty now.

        I had to do my wife’s funeral recently. Covid made it a small affair but the advent of telecasting meant that people could watch it and many people did. She had a lot of friends.

        I might ask for the last post for myself, when the time comes. It was an excellent rendition. How about Action Stations (a call to arms) – was Phillip sending a message?

        Jillian was an excellent mimic, which made her popular. When people speculated about the abdication of the Queen she would quote this promise;
        “”I declare before you all that my whole life, whether it be long or short, shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong.” – Queen Elizabeth II

        Therefore I do not expect the Queen to abdicate. She has more faith than the Pope.

        Having written all that I had to go and get a tissue and blow my nose.

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          Annie

          I’m sorry to hear about your loss Peter. The Queen has and Prince Philip had huge faith; she is a far better leader than either the current pope or abp of Canterbury, in my opinion.

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        Len

        Annie, the Prince Philip and the Queen both received the corona virus “vaccine”. Has there been any investigation the Prince Philip may have had adverse effects to the jab?

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          Annie

          One does wonder about that. Would we ever know?

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            GD

            I wondered about that too. Especially the timing of it. Did it push the Prince over the precipice? We won’t be allowed to know, of course.

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          beowulf

          I’m no fan of the available jabs myself, but I think you’re drawing a rather long bow there.

          HRH was after all 99¾ and had been in and out of hospital since the Jubilee in 2012, and especially so in the past 2 years when he had an unspecified “condition” reported to be terminal.

          The antics of Mr & Mrs Markle would not have helped. That she could choose the lead-up to his funeral to announce that she was ready to accept an apology from the Royals for her “mistreatment” or else she would go back to Oprah for a 2nd round of lies, is probably the most outrageous of all her outrageousness. Trailer-trash.

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    Hanrahan

    It could be worse, we could be in Justin Trudeau’s Canada.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGdPsimsZcU

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      yarpos

      In VIC we are, Doug Ford pretty much same same as Dictator Dan. At least some of the Canadian Police have pushed back on enforcing some of his BS,

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    Peter C

    Trumps America.

    Can the Democrats keep them down?

    Stillwater
    April 18, 2021 12:26 am
    I’ve put together the following prayer list for those who wish to pray over prayers from some of Grandma Covfefe’s past posts. (B)
    (Includes some updates/additions…)

    * * * * * Trump America is the Last Bastion of Freedom * * * * *
    “May God continue to strengthen our hearts and sustain our souls. May God continue to shed His divine grace upon this land. And may God forever bless the United States of America.” ~ U.S. President Donald J. Trump
    – – – – –
    “Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.” ~ Romans 12:21
    – – – – –
    Heal Our Land
    Thank You, Lord, for President Trump, his MAGAA Team, and all his supporters.
    Lord, keep them all safe in all they do and go daily. In Jesus’ Name we pray…..

    “O give thanks unto the Lord; call upon his name: make known his deeds among the people. Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him: talk ye of all his wondrous works.” ~ Ps 105:1-2

    ***Praises

    ♦ Thank You, Lord, for protecting President Trump & MAGAA Team & Trump Legal Team Today
    ♦ Donald Trump is a better guardian of Christianity, individual liberty, family, & the unborn than any progressive “Christian.”
    ♦ Thank You, Lord, for Fearless Patriots & Prayer Warriors; who tirelessly & relentlessly press on with faith & steady determination, despite setbacks & discouragements; who inspire, encourage, & uplift their fellow countrymen along the way

    ♦ Thank You, for President Trump’s victory over the impeachment efforts.
    ♦ Thank You, for the 450 miles of Border Wall completed (as of 12/30/20).
    ♦ Thank You, for the GAO’s investigation into Biden’s order freezing funds allocated by Congress for Border Wall construction
    ♦ Thank You, for the continual exposures of corrupt individuals, both inside & outside of Govt.
    ♦ Thank You for the revelations of the voter fraud that occurred through Dominion voting machines & other methods.

    ♦♦♦ Thank You for the ever increasing efforts of Patriots in various states below pushing for election integrity & investigations into voter fraud; Thank You for removing roadblocks & using each apparent roadblock for good to expose the fraudsters, force them to reveal themselves at all levels, & increase the awareness of the country to their schemes…

    ♦ Thank You for the AZ judge ruling that State Senate can review 2.1M Maricopa County ballots.
    ♦ Thank You that a GA judge gave a voter integrity group the right to inspect Fulton County ballots for evidence of voter fraud.
    ♦ Thank You for the AZ Legislature’s move to prohibit private sector funds from being sent to election officials & operations
    ♦ Thank You for the WI State Assembly resolution authorizing an official investigation into the 2020 presidential election

    ♦ Thank You for Sundance.. and for his Mission getting the truth out
    ♦ USA Stronger — Live your Best Life — God Bless America

    America’s Arrow Prayers:
    Heavenly Father, we pray in Jesus’ name…

    ♦ For Repentance & Restoration for our country; for the American people to Awaken to the reality of God, repent from sin, & turn their hearts toward God through faith in Jesus, His Son
    ♦ for strength & guidance of every American in their actions for God & Country

    ♦ Continuing 24/7 protection & health for President Trump, his family, & MAGAA Team in their future endeavors
    ♦ for President Trump to be surrounded by loyal advisors who will give him wise & Godly counsel
    ♦ for the continued exposures & removal of the backstabbers
    ♦ for all the political/legal attacks/efforts against President Trump & family to fail
    ♦ for Healing for MAGAA Team and others from Chinese Wuhan virus & for protection for America from further Chinese Wuhan virus attacks

    ♦ for the smooth transition/migration of President Trump and the rest of the MAGAA community to alternative/new platforms

    ♦ for people to find the right balance between their social media connections & developing meaningful relationships offline with people in their lives & local communities

    ♦ Biden/Harris–Dems–Hollywood–RINOs–Big Tech–Fake Media–Blue State Governors who are addicted to imposing lockdowns to fumble, jumble, mumble, stumble, tumble, bumble, grumble, crumble.. then diminish…. pouf…. Poof….
    ♦ for Justice; that the coupmakers & election fraudsters get caught and charged with crimes against President Trump, WeThePeople and the United States
    ♦ for uncovering of all illegal votes & widespread awareness of the Country to this fraud & the media’s deception
    ♦ for the souls of the above individuals; that they would repent from sin & come to the Truth

    ♦♦♦ For the safety, security of those conducting the Maricopa County, AZ Election Audit which is to take place at the Arizona Exposition & State Fairgrounds on April 22; that whole process of the audit & chain-of-custody of the ballots would be proven to be fully transparent, thoroughly accurate, & unimpeachable.

    ♦ For USA Election Integrity: Voter ID, Paper Ballots, Signature matching, Election Day Deadline, No ballot harvesting, catch voting fraudsters, & any other steps necessary to ensure the integrity of current & future elections
    ♦ For Election Fraud: Investigations, Court cases, Lawyers, Judges presiding the cases, & Witnesses who saw frauds being committed; *Protection for all
    ♦ for guidance, protection, & strength for Rudy Giuliani, Jenna Ellis, Sidney Powell, General Flynn, Lin Wood, Mike Lindell, Stephen Miller, Gov. Ron DeSantis, other patriot lawyers & their teams, families, & property
    ♦ for Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene in her efforts in Congress to expose the truth

    ♦ for Section 230 ‘Big Tech’ liability shield to be repealed

    ♦ For safety/protection for our Citizens, our Country, all buildings-landmarks, & all Fed Agents against domestic terrorism/violent mobs, & civil unrest
    ♦ for protection for politically targeted MAGAA supporters
    ♦ for people all around the world to resist and prevail against the tyranny of communism and dictatorships

    ♦ For Safety/Health protection for: USSS, Military, Border Patrol, LEOs, & their brave Horses/dogs
    ♦ for protection for all WALL builders
    ♦ for Guardian Angels protecting all our borders–air, land, sea

    ♦ for strength & healing for those battling illnesses/cancers…. All Trump supporters & Treepers like listingstarboard
    ♦ For Protection/Healing for all American Patriots/American children/youth/the unborn… & James Younger– Remember…Young Landen is healed!

    ♦ Pray for our Beloved Treehouse! ***for Sundance, Ad rem, Stella, Menagerie and the crew and their continued work with the new platform & CTH community ***
    ♦ Pray for Grandma Covfefe & her family, for health and well being (Update: 3/28/21)
    ♦ Pray for Sundance and his Mission in exposing the truth via his research, reporting, and briefings around the country.

    “My fellow Americans, it is time to speak up loudly and strongly and powerfully and defend the integrity of our country.”
    ~ Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America —

    “Through the Almighty’s love and the power of prayer, we have found renewed strength and understanding to face these unprecedented times with stalwart resolve.” ~ President Donald J. Trump
    – – – – –
    “The Strongest Weapon in the United States is a Praying Patriotic American.”
    ~ Treepers’ Prayer Warriors Post

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      Peter C

      In Moderation.

      Not unexpected. Explosive?

      I wish I could see the the discussion between the moderators and Jo about whether to release it.

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        Chad

        “Explosive “ ????
        How so ?…….seems like the ramblings of an over inebriated Southern Preacher to an empty Church !

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          Kalm Keith

          Chad asks; ” “Explosive “ ????”.

          Of course, and you just prooved it, your brain is splattered all over the page for everyone to see.

          Prayer has many functions and one of them is to distract your thoughts away from things like repressive, constant, domineering media bombardment.

          This “space” offers a moment when you can look at things and see them more rationally.

          If you want to.

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    another ian

    “What climate science tells us, what it doesn’t & why it matters”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/18/what-climate-science-tells-us-what-it-doesnt-why-it-matters/

    Sounds like for the reading list

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      another ian

      A good start –

      “Any reader would benefit from its deft, lucid tour of climate science, the best I’ve seen. His rigorous parsing of the evidence will have you questioning the political class’s compulsion to manufacture certainty where certainty doesn’t exist. You will come to doubt the usefulness of centurylong forecasts claiming to know how 1% shifts in variables will affect a global climate that we don’t understand with anything resembling 1% precision.”

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    Analitik

    Another refutation of the Climate Emergency from a former Obama chief scientist

    The panel is expected to consult 40-plus climate computer simulations—testament to its inability to pick out a single trusted one. Worse, the models have been diverging, not coming together as you might hope. Without tweaking, they don’t even agree on current simulated global average surface temperature—varying by 3 degrees Celsius, three times the observed change over the past century. (If you wonder why the IPCC expresses itself in terms of a temperature “anomaly” above a baseline, it’s because the models produce different baselines.)

    h/t wwwt

    https://www.thegwpf.com/what-climate-science-tells-us-what-it-doesnt-why-it-matters/
    https://youtu.be/VAFnWrtE5Nw

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    Robber

    Australia is reportedly importing about 1,000 people from overseas each day, many of whom are Australians who have been stuck overseas.
    Each day about 15 of those travellers test positive for COVID-19 while in hotel quarantine.
    Wouldn’t you think that those people would have self-quarantined before getting on a flight, and/or been vaccinated?
    Despite all the stories about vaccine rollouts, according to Worldometer, UK still has 110,000 active cases, 2,000 new daily, USA 6.8 million active , 42,000 new daily, France 1 million active, 29,000 new daily, Italy 500,000 active, 13,000 new, Japan 39,000 active, 4,500 new. Clearly some very different reporting of recoveries.
    Meanwhile, China reports just 315 active cases Australia 168, although Worldometer reports 2,100.

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      MP

      Cases, cases, cases, cases and worldometer.

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      yarpos

      Being vaccinated does not stop you getting infected, or testing positive , or being infectious

      Quarantine might lower the odds , but we cant manage it on our own shores let alone elsewhere and why would other governments care as long as they are seeing the back of the foreigners. That’s the trouble with the real world, its messy.

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        MP

        But it does allow you to take off your mask, stand next to people, travel overseas, shake hands. (NZ is next door)

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      el gordo

      We could add China to the Trans Tasman Bubble.

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    Yarpos

    Imagine for a moment, that you have so little going on in your life, that you troll through the Jo Nova blog leaving silent red thumbs on posts. Even on the most trivial of posts.

    Its a little sad really.

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      MP

      Imagine for a moment, that you have so little going on in your life, that you worry about what people you don’t know think of you.

      That was me, rules is rules

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    Andrew McRae

    NASA has received the data from the “Ingenuity” Mars helicopter first liftoff attempt.
    Telemetry and pictures at 1Hz were received and decoded.
    It flew!
    Takeoff, hover, and landing.

    https://mars.nasa.gov/technology/helicopter/#Watch-Online

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    CHRIS

    Yes Andrew, very exciting. If nothing else, it does prove that Mars has an atmosphere of some sort (otherwise, the propellers of the helicopter would not work efficiently).

    11