JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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8.9 out of 10 based on 13 ratings

189 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    RicDre

    Forbes: “Blackouts Expose Perils And Costs Of California’s ‘Electrify Everything’ Push”

    Even Forbes, whose deep green editors recently censored Michael Shellenberger for criticising the climate movement, has sharply criticised California’s headlong rush into a new dark age of unreliable electricity.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/08/22/forbes-blackouts-expose-perils-and-costs-of-californias-electrify-everything-push/

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Hard to have a functioning marxist police state without power….

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      • #
        Broadie

        Define ‘Function’,
        North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba are functioning quite nicely for the ruling elites.

        100

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        And meanwhile in other countries….

        Using a “crisis” for normalizing intrusive govt tracking…..

        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-17/covid-coronavirus-quarantine-tracking-devices-to-stop-breaches/12557736

        “What are other countries doing?

        “Hong Kong requires people arriving from other countries to wear a wristband while self-isolating for two weeks. It pairs with a compulsory phone app and is designed to detect if a person has left their hotel room or house.

        “South Korea announced it planned to force people to wear wristbands if they breached quarantine orders, after a number of people reportedly flouted the rules.

        20

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          And WA…australias HK?

          Both Vic and WA seem to be using the now myth of a dangerous virus to crush peoples rights.

          As someone wisely said, its not really the Feds you have to watch…the States are just as dangerous in destroying our liberties….

          But it seems WA has created a state of guilty until proven…aw who cares….lock em all up.

          Is WA being run by Jacobins?

          Its a bit like pre-crime from “Minority Report”. Its one thing to play to the audience if scare people, its another to abuse thier trust.

          https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-25/wa-police-powers-widen-for-coronavirus-crisis-but-will-they-last/12584176

          “Last week, WA Premier Mark McGowan said he would like to see potential criminals entering the state being forced to wear the bracelets.

          “”If we think someone is a flight risk or a potential criminal or a former criminal, well they’re the sorts of people they would go on,” he said.

          Define ” potential criminal”?

          Talk about sending WA back to being a rough penal colony….

          00

    • #
      Rowjay

      This article is a reasoned, well articulated summary of the power reliability issues in California. They are currently sourcing about 30% of their energy needs from Variable Renewable Energy (VRE) they are now witnessing “the types of obstacles and problems that these new technologies introduce”.

      But California’s experience also underscores a growing consensus among energy scholars: that variable renewable energy technologies are unlikely to meet the grid’s power demand by themselves. They will play an important role, but more firm generating sources, like next-generation nuclear reactors, natural gas plants with carbon capture technologies, enhanced geothermal, and others that can balance out variable renewables, will be required.

      It seems that 30% VER is the tipping point where even peaking gas plants find it hard to justify lying idle for extended periods and are being decommissioned early in their life.

      Advocates emphasize that solar and wind complement each other; the wind usually blows while the sun doesn’t shine, and vice versa. And even if a renewable resource is less available in one part of the country, long-distance power lines can transmit electricity from other regions. These are features of a wind-and-solar-heavy system—until they’re bugs. In California this week, the heat pushed power demand to near record highs, solar generation plummeted in the evening, the winds slowed faster than expected, and the same thing happened in Nevada, Arizona, and other states we usually import electricity from. The result was predictable to anyone who hasn’t been heralding a seamless transition to renewable energy technologies.

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      • #
        Deplorable Lord Kek

        They will play an important role, but more firm generating sources, like next-generation nuclear reactors, natural gas plants with carbon capture technologies, enhanced geothermal, and others that can balance out variable renewables, will be required.

        in other words, far from being “important”, renewables are completely irrelevant once baseload power is factored in.

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        • #
          StephenP

          In fact the only virtue of VRE is that they don’t produce any CO2 while they are generating.
          Before and after is a different matter, both in their manufacture and disposal, and the CO2 produced by having backup plant on standby.
          All in all it seems that one cancels out the other.

          70

  • #
    RicDre

    Chilling Aussie “Mandatory news media bargaining code”: Allowing Establishment Media to Dictate Terms to “Digital Media”

    The Australian Government is demanding more control of digital media content such as Google search rankings, and more remuneration for traditional mainstream media for use of content.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/08/21/new-chilling-aussie-mandatory-news-media-bargaining-code-allowing-mainstream-media-to-dictate-terms-to-digital-media/

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  • #

    Complimentary review of Aussie prof Donnelley on the loss of our freedoms, woke culture and modern nonsenses

    https://conservativewoman.co.uk/roger-scrutons-aussie-heir-and-the-book-we-all-should-read/

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  • #

    Artificial Intelligence – we may pay too high a price.
    http://www.dinosaurdiary.com.au

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      As i understand it, the idea is to push everything into “the cloud” then let AI devour your data to make it easier to know and control the population….

      140

      • #
        Just Thinkin'

        I make a point of keeping my information with me..

        Not out there for ANYONE to pick up on…..

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      • #
        Just Thinkin'

        [Duplicate]

        00

      • #
        PeterS

        Anthony Levandowski, a former employee at Google, has proposed that we develop and deploy AI with the express aim to assume control over this planet. He calls it The Transition, and implies it will become our new god:

        “It’s not a god in the sense that it makes lightning or causes hurricanes. But if there is something a billion times smarter than the smartest human, what else are you going to call it?”

        What lunacy.

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        • #
          RicDre

          “Anthony Levandowski, a former employee at Google, has proposed that we develop and deploy AI with the express aim to assume control over this planet.”

          See: Colossus: The Forbin Project

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project

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          • #
            Orson

            View “Colossus-A Forbin Project” can be viewed online free and in HD. Keep hunting. I watched it in April.

            10

        • #

          Peters,
          I’m always suspicious when someone talks about transitioning. I’ll track this bloke down, sounds at least like he’s honest in his views.
          https://websites.godaddy.com/en-AU/editor/f54c11cd-2695-437f-9006-c7eb4d37b4b3/2dbc3c68-54c1-4511-8f4b-14af5ec7c5f0?ua_placement=shared_header&blogpost=politics-and-the-big-lie

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          That fits with similar things I have heard through other tech channels ( I work in IT ).

          If you create an AI “gid” it bevomes a graven idol, a new high tech Golden Calf. It will of course createvits own religion around it.

          Socialists and communists appear to often be athiests and/or nhilists, and the big tech companies are actively socialist and are actively are censoring christian and consrtvative views now. As such if you can create a false religion that holds all your data, if you become persona mon grata to the tech tyrants you would be living in the street quickly.

          From my Christian point of view, this also fits in with the Mark of the Beast in the Bible, where no one can buy ir sell without the Mark on thier right hand or forehead. If a chip or tattoo was needed to allow you to interract with a blockchain “Borg” comprising Big AI ( Ive just coined a new phrase…), Big Tech, Big Govt, Big Banking and Big Pharma, then its a 100% control grid over erything and everyone.

          I intersting point – the God of the Bible is Omnipresent and Omnipotent, Satan however has limited manpower ( number of demons ) to do his bidding. So in order to create a poor attempted ( but failed ) replica of Gods omnipresence and omnipotemce, this tech bodgy of all these systems is the closest he can get. As such, theologically speaking, if we are indeed in the last days, the tech companies, who appear to also hate Christians , would be Satans willing handmaidens, and will also as Collaborators, share in Satans fate….bye bye….it will all collapse in an hour…the Harlot of Revelation….

          We live in amazing times…..

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Actually it could also be a bit of the Tower of Babel as well….rebellion against God is the theme I see.

          Interestingly this EU building is a striking replica of the unfinished Tower of Babel as per Bruegels painting….

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tower_of_Babel_(Bruegel)

          https://www.photo-alsace.com/photos-strasbourg+parlement+europeen+alsace.html

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      • #
        Yonniestone

        OS not sure if you’ve seen the HBO series Westworld based off the 1973 film its ok with good effects, the first two seasons got a bit repetitive with story, violence, nudity etc but the 3rd season was outside “the park” and shows a future real world as you describe, its very well done and was surprising that idea was put out there.

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    • #
      PeterS

      There’s one major problem with artificial intelligence; it’s artificial not real 🙂

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      • #
        Robber

        And AI obeys the orders it is given, that’s not intelligence, it’s dumbness.

        63

        • #
          yarpos

          that isnt AI thats the traditional view of computing

          42

        • #
          TdeF

          Isaac Azimov followed this logic in his robot stories, like I Robot.

          At what point does emotion, ethics, impulsiveness, even a concept of a creator exist in the thinking of robots?

          That was his recurring theme. And as we head to a world of self aiming automated and even independent drones on the battlefield it is a life and death question which is real today. It is also examined in Terminator and so many more science fiction stories.

          One project in James Cook University was a lethal and autonomous robot patrolling the seas and injecting Crown of Thorns starfish with poison. The ethics of robots has not been discussed in the popular press and at what point life begins. At the very least, we need Azimov’s three laws.

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          • #
            TdeF

            But in a society which is pushing in Europe and the Democrats in America for government paid abortion up to and after birth, we first have to discuss when life begins for humans as American voters are on the cusp of legalizing murder of infants after birth. And making everyone else pay for it. You see babies don’t matter.

            Kamala Harris as Attorney General in California was instrumental in bankrupting three Catholic hospitals over the issue of drugs for abortion and their refusal to take part. This idea of women owning their children, even their right to live is becoming part of government policy. It make slavery seem like a secondary issue when politicians decide if babies should live or die.

            And the segment of society losing the greatest number of babies to government abortion are America’s poor blacks. You see Blacks Lives don’t matter to the Democrats or many in California and the big Democrat cities. Only their votes matter. Like ab*rigines in Australia. And allegedly Catholic working class Biden is fine with full term abortion, anything in fact which gets him the job he wants. He has been a politician all his life and does not want to miss his chance at the big job. So anything and everything which brings votes is fine and morality does not seem to exist for the Bidens. Catholic? No.

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            • #
              TdeF

              And while the Woke are pushing m*rder of babies on demand, others are pushing for an age limit at the other end. “So here’s the thing about the elders of the tribe — do we owe them or do they owe us?”

              Again science fiction stuff, Logan’s Run. Age limit of 40. The Matrix, machine reared babies in a machine run world.

              Morality is getting lost when the would be President of America is blind to human rights for babies but wants to be President at 80. And one Bishop openly asks how he can claim to be a Catholic.

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            • #
              PeterS

              It’s an interesting point you have raised. While most are occupied with the pandemic, there have been over 20 million abortions so far this year. Go figure.

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              • #
                TdeF

                Yes, it looks for all the world like deliberate extermination black populations by government paid abortion of their babies. It’s one way to get rid of the slums, make sure there is no next generation. Of course that is not what people think, they are fighting for rights. Except it looks suspiciously like taxpayer funded genocide.

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      • #
        RicDre

        “There’s one major problem with artificial intelligence; it’s artificial not real”

        Michael Flynn called them “Artificial Stupids” in his Firestar book series which always seemed like a more appropriate name to me.

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    • #
      James Murphy

      Robert Miles has done a pretty interesting series of YouTube videos on AI safety, based on a freely available paper written about the subject.

      He’s done other videos about the same subject here as well.

      10

  • #
  • #
    Another Ian

    “Two Different Paths To Herd ImmunityTwo Different Paths To Herd Immunity”

    https://realclimatescience.com/2020/08/two-different-paths-to-herd-immunity/

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Further evidence that woke progressive comedians can’t see the joke when it is in front of them.

    The special guest “idiot” is a high school drop out who doesn’t know where China is …

    Rainn Wilson To Host Docuseries ‘An Idiot’s Guide To Climate Change’; Greta Thunberg Among Guests

    https://deadline.com/2020/07/an-idiots-guide-to-climate-change-rainn-wilson-hosts-docuseries-greta-thunberg-youtube-greta-thunberg-among-guest-1202996594/

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  • #
    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

    Morning all,
    “Useful and banned
    One drug may help defeat coronavirus – and it cannot be prescribed in Australia”
    That’s the headline, and sub header of the article by Andrew Bolt in last Monday’s ( August 17 2020 ) Daily Telegraph, on page 55.
    Sorry, I can’t give you a link, as I only saw the hard copy which was saved for me on Thursday. And glad am I that they did.
    Then had to wait till today …
    Many thanks to Andrew for this article which is one of those rarities, one I wish I had been able to write and get published. I strongly recommend it to anyone who thinks hcq is a useful medicine against Covid-19. He does.
    Unlike many articles, he recognises, and writes about the importance of zinc, and refutes that Lancet study which wrongly panned hcq.
    If anyone can get a link for us, please do, as I’d like to send the full text to my pollies, and suggest it may be useful for others to do the same.
    Cheers
    Dave B

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Yep…the Elite are trying to force potentially bodgy, fast tracked and potentially dangerous RNA vaccines on people.

      Just say no.

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      • #
        sophocles

        OS:
        You will find you will have to take `an approved vaccine’ whether you want to or not when the time comes. You will have to get your little RFID identifier injected with the vaccine. Without that, you won’t be able to access your bank account or any other services. That’s Gates’ target …

        Judith Collins, the Wonderful Leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal NZ Opposition, is making the `You Will …’ noises already. It may be election year this year, but she’s sounding as though she has already been elected. Sheesh, the Election hasn’t happened yet!

        (I’ve got to give it to the NZ National Party: they keep giving me all these wonderful reasons to NOT vote for them. and J.C. is the best one yet!)

        20

    • #
      Roger Knights

      Bolt is probably referring to this—I’ve excepted a few paragraphs from it:

      “No guts, no glory” 15 August 2020 AU The Spectator Australia Magazine
      Does an Australian gastro legend hold the key to curing Covid?
      REBECCA WEISSER

      “Dr Kylie Wagstaff announced on 3 April that ivermectin, a drug that’s been around for almost 50 years and kills everything from head lice and scabies to the parasites that cause river blindness, also kills Sars-Cov-2 virus in test tubes.

      Since then, doctors using ivermectin have saved thousands of people around the world who were sick with Covid, even many close to death; the mortality rates for those on ventilators dropped from 81 per cent to 39 per cent. As for people who have just been infected with the virus, there is an almost 100 per cent cure rate. And it is also working as a prophylactic, protecting healthcare workers.

      Yet, other than Borody, almost nobody in Australia is treating patients with ivermectin. Why? At first glance, it seems inexplicable. Borody’s triple therapy combines ivermectin with a bog-standard — pardon the pun — antibiotic and zinc. The safety profile is so well-known that there is virtually no risk. There are already 33 clinical trials running around the world. The results so far are uniformly positive. Borody is running a randomised, controlled, double-blind trial in the US, ….
      ….
      it’s not just ‘hydroxy hatred’ that is a dogma on the Left; merely to seek a cure is, as a fellow at the Australian Defence Force Academy told the ABC, ‘an individualistic solution’ which appeals to those on the right, in opposition to ‘more left-leaning values around social responsibility.’ It’s a ‘quick fix, a magic cure’ for the ‘problem’ of the virus, he says, not ‘a social solution that implies we have to work together’ — with government —‘to address larger, more complex, and interrelated issues in society to battle the disease.”

      https://app.spectator.com.au/2020/08/no-guts-no-glory/pugpig_index.html

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      • #
        TdeF

        Rebecca Weisser in the Spectator is a must read every week. Always amazing and topical and accurate. She was devastating on the role of the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the part played by President Xi and his Lackey Tedros Adhanom, political head of the WHO and ex Ethiopian freedom fighter and member of the original dictatorship group. China has been stacking every UN organization with such lackeys. And who benefits from Climate Change cash and is immune from the UN IPCC dictates and is the major supplier of WIndmills and solar panels to the world? One guess.

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Wait. What?

    You mean to say we will never be out of lockdown and mask wearing?

    And, are you absolutely sure this is about a virus …?

    ~ ~ ~

    “Australia and most of the world have been put in a holding pattern until a vaccine becomes available, with hopes this will be the silver bullet to return life to normal.

    “I’m advised that we’ll need about a 95 per cent vaccination rate across the country,” Mr Morrison said.

    https://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/pms-backflip-highlights-next-virus-battle/4083871/

    WHO warns coronavirus vaccine alone won’t end pandemic: ‘We cannot go back to the way things were’

    “The World Health Organization said Friday that a vaccine will be a “vital tool” in the global fight against the coronavirus, but it won’t end the Covid-19 pandemic on its own and there’s no guarantee scientists will find one.

    In particular, the Covid-19 pandemic has given new impetus to the need to accelerate efforts to respond to [Global Warming],” he (WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus) said.

    “The Covid-19 pandemic has given us a glimpse of our world as it could be: cleaner skies and rivers.”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/who-warns-a-coronavirus-vaccine-alone-will-not-end-pandemic.html

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    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Whenever I hear Tedros (Dr WHO) talk on the radio, an image of Count Dracula (the Sesame Street puppet version) appears in my head. Should I be wearing ear plugs as well as face mask, gloves & goggles?

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Yep…its about trying to scare the punters into *obeying*.

      A scared population is a *compliant* population.

      Govts appear to be holding populations locked down and to to ransom, which is modern slavery i believe…..

      This virus was never about illness, its about setting up a medical tyranny over us.

      Just say no to the vaccine.

      No vaccine, no control.

      Expect the scare stories to really ramp up as we get closer to the release of the vaccine they have had sitting there for months already. The punters have to be suffiently scared to stupidly accept it.

      Just like the scare mongering over the useless covid app, this will go the same way…..

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        And speaking of which….Comrade Dan appears to be promising safety while actually slowly strangling democracy….entending emergency powers for another 12 months = goodbye democracy.
        It must be stopped. 6 months abdoltely no more.

        And *still* we only hear “vaccine vaccine vaccine”…no Ivermectin, notice?

        Hitlr did a similar false flag against an imaginary foe with the burning of the Reichstag

        https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-24/victoria-records-116-new-coronavirus-cases-and-15-deaths/12588284

        “Under the state of emergency, the Chief Health Officer is able to make legally enforceable directions in order to protect public health, such as quarantine rules, mask wearing and physical distancing.

        “Mr Andrews said while the current state of emergency was due to end on September 13, it was clear it would be needed well beyond that time.

        Also…food for thought

        https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6183741231001

        “Lockdown only ‘makes sense’ if it’s permanent while waiting for vaccine
        23/08/2020|10min

        “Swedish ER doctor Sebastian Rushworth has told Sky News the only situation where it “makes sense to lockdown society completely” is if the country is willing to stay entirely closed until a vaccine is available.

        “Dr Rushworth said there sn’t a single COVID patient being treated in his hospital which indicates the country has “reached the state of herd immunity”.

        20

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    I wonder if anyone else has considered the global warming effect of grid scale solar power.
    As measured by science solar panels heat up when absorbing photons emmitted by the sun
    They must also radiate that heat as IR photons as they shed heat on their way to equilibrium wit the atmosphere
    Science tells us that C02 (and other ‘greenhouse’ gasses) absorb IR phtons and send a propotion of them twards the surface of the earth warming both the atmosphere (by convection) and the surface (also by convection)
    Thus by scalling up grid solar, you are creating heat islands which may well negate the C02 offset which is their reason for existance.

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    • #
      Rowjay

      Most sensible thing to do is to get rid of them in the paddocks and let the grass grow and increase the carbon content of the soil and suck up some more CO2.

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    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      Why would there be any “global warming” if you had solar panels?
      Isn’t the answer to “global warming” solar panels?
      How many solar panels do you need to prevent “global warming” on any scale?

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    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      Here is a ‘97% science could happen‘ answer, PF.

      “British rooftops could be hosting a breakthrough in new solar power technology by next summer, using a crystal first discovered more than 200 years ago to help harness the sun’s power.

      Oxford PV says tech based perovskite crystal can generate almost a third more electricity.”

      https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/15/uk-firms-solar-power-breakthrough-could-make-worlds-most-efficient-panels-by-2021

      Wait … do they use the dreaded fossil fuels to get perovskite out of the ground?
      Let’s hope not.
      I was planning on no global warming cold this weekend.

      Scientists Discover ‘Miracle’ Mineral That Could Make Internet 1,000-times Faster
      https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/11/27/scientists-discover-miracle-mineral-that-could-make-internet-1000-times-faster/#5ec8f2c17f45

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        mikewaite

        The perovskite materials that I have seen as potential replacements for Si solar cells are metal- organic hybrid layers, combined with electron and hole transporting layers. The metal in the hybrid is lead. I woud guess that 80% by weight of the perovskite solar cell is lead. Amd this will be plastered across the countryside at a time when lead for shooting and in fishing weights is or has been (in the UK) banned and substituted by something less toxic.
        I suppose on rooftops it is not seen as a problem because they already have lead flashing on roofs (in the UK anyway). Still it does seem a retrograde step in terms of environmental safety.

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        mikewaite

        The perovskite materials that I have seen as potential replacements for Si solar cells are metal- organic hybrid layers, combined with electron and hole transporting layers. The metal in the hybrid is lead. I woud guess that 80% by weight of the perovskite solar cell is lead. Amd this will be plastered across the countryside at a time when lead for shooting and in fishing weights is or has been (in the UK) banned and substituted by something less toxic.
        I suppose on rooftops it is not seen as a problem because they already have lead flashing on roofs (in the UK anyway). Still it does seem a retrograde step in terms of environmental safety.

        11

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        mikewaite

        The perovskite materials that I have seen as potential replacements for Si solar cells are metal- organic hybrid layers, combined with electron and hole transporting layers. The metal in the hybrid is lead. I woud guess that 80% by weight of the perovskite solar cell is lead. Amd this will be plastered across the countryside at a time when lead for shooting and in fishing weights is or has been (in the UK) banned and substituted by something less toxic.
        I suppose on rooftops it is not seen as a problem because they already have lead flashing on roofs (in the UK anyway). Still it does seem a retrograde step in terms of environmental safety.

        [This was caught in the spam filter] ED

        11

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      The radiation back to earth is minimal. CO2 “traps” infrared energy only for a maximum of 0.5 milliseconds, during which time a CO2 molecule would have about 1,000 collisions with other molecules transfering energy kinetically. This short ‘trapping time’ has been known since the 1860’s (see J. Tyndall). The result is an averaged temperature for all molecules in the air at one point. (see A. Einstein 1915).

      Yes, PV solar panels with their low efficiency would form a local ‘hot spot’ and would rely on air convection to carry the heat away, but that loss would not be as great as the amount radiated by the sun at that point. And ‘excited CO2’ radiated at the equivalent of minus 20℃.

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      Lance

      Whatever solar energy the panels/mirrors/whatever absorb, was already on its way to Earth in the first place.

      Thus, whatever warming was going to take place as a result of solar insolation, is unaffected by the temporary absorption or re-emission by said PV or thermal solar projects. There is no additional global warming except for the emissions that resulted from manufacturing, transporting, installing, removing, and recycling/destroying the devices.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        how does a UHI form then?

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          Lance

          First you said:
          “I wonder if anyone else has considered the global warming effect of grid scale solar power.”

          Then you said:

          “Thus by scalling up grid solar, you are creating heat islands which may well negate the C02 offset which is their reason for existance.”

          So which is it? Global warming or UHI?

          Global warming contribution: Zero. Because the solar energy was already inbound.

          UHI: Depends on thermal mass. PV arrays have negligible mass. Solar mirror arrays have negligible mass, but the power tower has significant mass as do the molten salts that store the thermal energy.

          Localized effects: minimal, unless there are a lot of them.

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Then UHI must zero as well – the grid scale plants are huge, if you believe the photos

            by your logic (examples)
            Grass covered field (where SAT is normally measured) has a temp x
            Rock covered field has a temp of x+y (greater than x anyway)
            Asphalt field has a temp of x+ 2y
            Solar plant covered field x+1.5y

            All of these are receiving the same solar input (that negates your first point)

            By your logic
            Night air temp be over grass with no clouds should not drop as collisions will be continuing and IR plays no part, but that is not true. Also, night air temp with cloud will be warmer – only possible from IR radiation from GHG’s like H20 or the surface

            you have not proved your point, but have proved mine – Solar plants will increase air temp.
            Now all we have to decide how much of an impact that will be

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            • #

              Since solar panels are black, in places where they replace a reflective light colored surface I assume they increase UHI, as the incoming light is not “sent back to space”. I can’t imagine the km2 adds up to much on a global scale.

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              Graeme No.3

              P.F.
              “Night air temp be over grass with no clouds should not drop” of course it will because you are ignoring circulation. The heated air rises, it doesn’t wait for the sun to set.
              “night air temp with cloud will be warmer” because the clouds reduce circulation. If IR radiation from GHG’s was important why doesn’t Antarctica warm up? It has miniscule H2O but a rising amount of CO2 yet no warming (except the non polar region with geothermal activity).

              Your problem is that you believe “The Science” which claims that back radiation warms the ground. You have 2 choices:
              If the earth radiates IR then it must lose energy (i.e. get cooler), receiving back part of the heat doesn’t restore its original temperature (i.e. it cools).
              If on the other hand you accept (as I once saw claimed on a warmist site) that radiation doesn’t transfer energy, then the CO2 back radiation cannot transfer energy back either. The whole claim of back radiation depends on getting twice as much heating out than is available coming in. Against thermodynamics.
              But if you believe “The Science” is right then the solution to the problem is available. Construct very large glass cylinders (about 2 km. diameter and 1 km. high (to avoid lateral breezes). The sun radiates IR (about 28% of input at the Earth’s surface) then back radiation doubles the heating effect and all you have to do is extract that extra. “Free energy” and no disruption of nature.
              Except of course in the watery areas (70-72% of the surface) because water is a lousy radiator of IR.

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    • #
      RickWill

      I wonder if anyone else has considered the global warming effect of grid scale solar power.

      Solar panels can alter local weather. There is the well known solar farm heat island effect. With wide scale use they could alter temperature readings in locations on the surface near weather stations that contribute to the measured Global Surface Temperature.

      However nothing that happens over land has an impact on the energy in the weather system. The oceans control the energy that drives the weather system and that energy is constrained to a very narrow range by the properties of water; primarily, the evaporation rate with temperature: the formation of sea ice at 272K; formation of clouds below 273K and the reflectivity of ice in its various forms.

      The concept of Global Warming is losing favour because the evidence does not support the concept. You will find the concept of Climate Change has become the favoured term because that can mean whatever the Church of Climate Change decrees. Current Google search of “Global Warming” gets 308M hits while “Climate Change” gets 585M; the latter is gradually becoming the favoured term within the Church that practices this religion.

      Taking the last 150 years, it is apparent that all of the reported Global Warming is a function of the measurement and reporting methodology rather than any change in ocean energy. Changes in ocean energy are undetectable outside the bounds of measurement error.

      The concept of Global Warming is dying a natural death because it is flawed in so many ways. Fundamental flaw is the notion of a “Global Surface Temperature”; a meaningless number unrelated to energy in the climate system.

      So solar panels can cause a change in local measured temperature in a similar fashion to any building or even a tree. If the solar panels are located near a weather station that contributes to the Global Surface Temperature then it can alter that meaningless number.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Missing the point, the Solar plant forgoes C02 emissions at some ratio per megawatt produced. As you point out, solar plants increase local temperature just as a coal plant will increase C02 and then temp (both are small compared to oceans)
        Does the increase in IR from a solar plant equal than the same temperature effect of the C02 emitted by a coal plant?

        If your aim is to reduce warming have you shot yourself in the foot by using grid scale solar?

        why is this concept so hard to get across

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        • #
          RickWill

          How does the level of CO2 alter the temperature of oceans?

          There is easily proved phenomena that CO2 solubility is an inverse function of water temperature. However there is no proven physical connection between atmospheric CO2 concentration and water temperature. You would need to prove the latter before jumping to a conclusion that the level of CO2 in the atmosphere can alter the energy in the oceans.

          As previously noted the properties of water alone control the energy in the oceans within a very narrow range. Surface heating causes rapid increase in water vapour resulting in increased cloud formation that reduces heat take up (shutters close to energy input). Surface cooling results in sea ice formation that insulates the ocean to prevent heat loss (shutters closed to heat loss). Water provides a near ideal thermal regulating system. The water surface can never be colder than 272K and never warmer than 303K over deep water. Average sea surface temperature, give or take the location and weaknesses of the monitoring and compilation process is (303+272)/2 = 288K. CO2 is not involved in the thermal regulating process.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Light is not heat. It is light. It can become converted to heat. If it was desert, it would get hot. All absorbed light becomes heat except for photosynthesis which is a cold conversion to hydrated CO2 and the solar energy is stored. Which is what powers all life on earth. You are generating heat right now, ultimately from light from the sun. Maybe expressed as a sandwich, made almost entirely from light energy and CO2 and H2O.

      However solar panels convert light directly to electricity via the photo electric effect which then becomes heat somewhere else, sometime later. Or the energy is exchanged for the energy of free CO2 as with removing oxygen from aluminium oxide. The heat is released ultimately only when the aluminium oxidizes. Aluminum metal (American spelling) is a cost effective fuel to carbon, but that’s another story. Forget batteries, convert straight to aluminum. However this also releases CO2, as does all metal smelting because all metals start as oxides, Iron Oxide, Lead Oxide, Copper Oxide and carbon is used to bond with the oxygen and remove it.

      So the ground underneath the solar panel would be cooler. And the solar panels are cooler by the amount of energy they convert. However as the conversion rate is only 12%, it hardly cools at all but it would be cooler than if the panels did nothing. The only real moderator of heat in our world is water, which is why it rains every afternoon in Singapore. Water is all the weather, not CO2. CO2 does nothing, or the nights would not be as cold.

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      • #
        Graeme No.3

        TdeF:

        You have forgetting the heat capacity of the panel supports; all that steel heats up** during the day and then cools down overnight. When some gullible arrives after sunset with a thermometer he/she/it will be measuring that heat loss. If he/she/it arrived just before dawn the solar farm would register ambient temperature.

        **Obviously not from back radiation because it is shielded from them by the panels. It can only be heated by air movement.

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        • #
          TdeF

          That’s true, but steel is very strong and dense, so you do not need much of it. It is likely minimal open lattice framework. And yes, it does get very hot very quickly to touch and conducts the heat readily, but the total mass is low and it also cools very quickly. Stored heat is very low. You cannot judge stored total heat by temperature unless you know the heat capacity. Leave steel in the sun and you cannot pick it up where you can pick up a brick, but that’s conductivity. The heat is far greater in the brick.

          And hotter in temperature means it radiates much more, black body radiation but higher temperature means lower wavelength, far away from the CO2 band. So it would leave the atmosphere. There is just so much more to what we perceive as heat storage.

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        • #
          yarpos

          all assuming they use steel

          00

    • #
      R.B.

      “As measured by science” what?

      Science led to the design of thermometers and a scale.

      Unless solar panels significantly change Earth’s albedo, your whole comment is silly musings.

      00

  • #
    Ross

    It is getting to the stage where we should not believe any of the figures for Covid deaths.

    In Victoria the head medical guy says this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=QgPpdSBNlp8&feature=emb_title

    In NZ an OIA request results in this revelation : https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/information-release/h202005103.pdf

    In the USA we get this : https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/if-covid-fatalities-were-90-2-lower-how-would-you-feel-about-schools-reopening/ A long article but the summary at the top tells it all, especially the last point.

    In the UK they are having another look at the data. There was a 5000 revision down in the last week and I read that Fredrick Forsyth (the author) has written in a major UK daily that 10,000 in June and July alone were incorrect. I have not verified that, yet.

    In Italy they did a revision quite early on, in April or May and were finding significant issues.

    In Germany we had the head pathologist for Hamburg in the media recently saying of the 145 autopsies he and his team did on people who were reported as dying from Covid, none of them died from covid –all were from other causes.

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    • #
      Serp

      Truth’s still getting its pants on…

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      • #
        PeterS

        and when it has shoes we can run with it. Until then we have to put up with lies from politicians and the like.

        30

    • #
      yarpos

      Some odd anomalies or at least hanging questions that jumped out at me from coverage this week.

      On our ABC they have a guy that pontificates in front of a big touch screen, like Anthony Green on election night. He had an interesting slide of Australian excess deaths and noted 1700 excess deaths over the period of the pandemic so far. We have had about 500 deaths allocated to Covid, and while the MSM chats about falling road tolls and people not getting the flu, they dont talk about this number. Why do these 1200 seem to not matter so much?

      Flowing from that. We have had about 500 deaths allocated to Covid nationally. Most of these deaths are in VIC. Most of deaths in VIC have been in the aged care setting. The average number of monthly deaths in aged care for the last two years in VIC is 1400 + or -. This number has not changed during the pandemic. CHO Sutton has confirmed that if a person in aged care dies and has had a positive test then there death is allocated to Covid. So even loading the count as much as possible people are not leaving this life at any greater rate than they usually do in VIC, we have just decided to label and notice it.

      I wonder, apart from keeping the populace alarmed, what Mr Andrews thinks he is doing with his daily undertaker announcements?

      Just as we will will never know the total number of people who actually get Covid, we will never really know the total number of people that really died from it. On we go, “cases” , deaths, lock down.

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    • #
      RickWill

      These should be all useful evidence for Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia when they come to defend the class action against St Basil’s for the deaths of the 31 residents over a two week period who died WITH Covid rather than OF Covid; they were going to die anyhow – we all are. It was only coincidental that those 31 patients died over a 2 week period and all were WITH Covid.

      My son admitted a woman, 72yo, into his Covid ward on transfer from a smaller hospital located in the north of Melbourne. She was admitted to that hospital with heart attack and contracted Covid while there as the virus was rampant among staff and patients. They were confident she contracted it in hospital because by that stage they were testing all admissions with lung or pulmonary conditions for Covid as well as all transfers. When he admitted her, she had breathing difficulties and her heart condition made treatment difficult; a very narrow range of treatment options. He and his team kept her alive for a week but he learnt that she passed away while he was off shift.

      Then there are those admitted with Covid who are simply too frail to handle the normal treatment options. They simply get the morphine style palliative care. They certainly died WITH Covid rather than OF Covid. They were already knocking on death’s door so to speak.

      A distinction between WITH or OF Covid is meaningless. All you need to understand is that the virus is easily transmitted; can be transmitted asymptomatically and presymptomatically and is deadly to a significant proportion of the population. No one should want to contract the virus and no one should want to transmit the virus. Sadly there are enough people unable to grasp the latter such that governments need to intervene to alter behaviour for the common good. Fortunately we live in a time where most can self-quarantine without any risk to health and well being.

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      • #
        yarpos

        “A distinction between WITH or OF Covid is meaningless”

        Its not actually, its at the core of everything, the fear is not of being a “case” its a fear of being dead. If that is being distorted and misrepresnted it is far from meaningless. Regardless of how contagious anything is , its real impact is what is important.

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    The Trump Train

    Come ride the Trump Train that is rolling down the track to the election (20-20 election)

    Forget your virus fears, it is time to vote at the election (20-20 election)

    Fake news you bet,

    Even more when you get,

    To the election

    20-20 election!
    ~~

    There’s a democratic group called the Shady Rest at the election (20-20 election)

    It is run by Nancy come and be her guest at the election (20-20 election)

    And there’s Sleepy Joe he is moving kinda slow at the election

    (20-20 election)

    ~~~

    When the finish bell rings for the Shady Rest at the election (20-20 election)

    Postal votes for country miles is the democratic style at the election (20-20 election)

    But the finish to observe is Trump’s winning move at the election

    20-20 election!

    . . .

    Sung to – and with apologies to, Petticoat Junction.

    Petticoat Junction 1963 – 1970 Opening and Closing Theme HQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=XRhi8Tk9nNE&feature=emb_logo

    60

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      I note that Joe Biden’s appearance at the Democratic convention attracted a low number of viewers.

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      • #
        Bulldust

        Probably should say ‘appearance’, given it was remote and pre-recorded in most cases. There’s no way the Dems can let Sleepy Joe get into the debates with The Donald. They know it … I just wonder what excuse they’ll use to avoid it. They’ll probably insist Trump wear a mask, be 50m apart from Biden, or insist on a remote debate (with an ear piece for Biden to keep him on track).

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      • #
        David Maddison

        I wonder how many takes it took until Biden was able to read his script without mistakes?

        62

  • #
    el gordo

    August winds have chilly bight for south east Oz, climate has resumed to normal.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/fwo/IDY65100.pdf

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  • #
    Rowjay

    The Australian ABC’s Insiders host is at is again – talking over his guests and generally acting as a bully and not letting the person being interviewed to answer – this is not journalism.

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  • #
    Robber

    Just noticed that the BoM site shows graphs of the last 72 hours of temperatures, rainfall and wind.
    With Vic suffering from a real cold and wet spell, interesting to see the significant variations even in 30 minutes. Makes me wonder what their minute by minute variations are.

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    • #
      Bulldust

      I have seen similar issues in Perth in the past. 2-3C shifts in a half hour, sometimes without a change in wind direction. I have even seen a spike up and down again between three 30 minute recordings. When you consider it is the daily high and low that are used for “average” temperatures, it is clear how sketchy the data are. A better approach would be to use all the 30min recordings (i.e. 48 for the day).

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  • #
    Bulldust

    So Kamala Harris (VP nominee) had been pranked by Russian radio hosts pretending to have dirt on Trump, and she accepted their offer of assistance:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZa-ITfgxxE

    Seems like something you’d get in trouble for … oh wait, she’s a Democrat, so I’m sure she’ll be all right.

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    • #
      RickWill

      This is very old ‘news’. It was done months ago. I expect about 50% of US citizens would be happy to have dirt on Trump.

      12

      • #
        Bulldust

        Interesting perspective RW. When there was the slightest hint that the Trump campaign was allegedly seeking dirt on H Clinton the MSM was outraged for weeks. Yet now, when it is reversed (in terms of the parties), that’s all A OK with half the population?

        30

  • #

    Everbody gets paid the same price per MWH for the electricity that they generate.

    Coal fired power (consistently) generates its power for around $30/MWH, and can afford to do that because they are supplying the bulk of that power, around 70% day in day out, so because they are always there (not coming and going like all the other power sources) they can afford to bid low, because their power is ALWAYS being consumed.

    For some inexplicable reason, the more renewables that have been added to the grid, the more the price has risen across recent years, and these renewables supply a little bit here, a little bit there, you know, an average of 30% of their Nameplate, which is small to start out with, when compared to a large Nameplate coal fired plant. (eg Macarthur wind 420MW at 30% so 125MW, compared to Bayswater 2500MW at normal operation)

    So for the two hours around the peak power consumption for each and every day, that cost is around an average of $120/MWH. So Macarthur Wind at peak time receives 125MW X 2 hours X $120, so a whopping $30,000.

    Bayswater receives 2500MW X 2 Hours X $120, so a piddling $600,000. (or Macarthur multiplied by 20)

    Hmm! No wonder wind power is forcing coal fired power to the wall, eh!

    Tony.

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    • #
      RickWill

      2 hours does not make a year.

      Bayswater owners have declining profits and that is the threat to their business:
      https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/agl-profit-slides-as-headwinds-hit-20200812-p55l0k

      AGL Energy has flagged an unexpectedly steep further slide in benchmark profit this coming year after tough market conditions and a generator outage sent profit down 21.5 per cent for 2019-20.

      AGL will need to shut down the Liddell coal fuelled generator in 2023 to maintain profits. The EnergyConnect project will inject considerable intermittent generation onto the NSW market and that will erode the profitability of the existing coal generators in NSW even further. It is the same scenario that played out in Victoria causing Hazelwood closure.

      Your stated cost of generation at $30/MWh only holds if the plant is working at capacity. Most of the costs are fixed so the unit cost of generation is strongly inversely related to the production; low production causes higher unit costs.

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      • #
        FarmerDoug2

        Rick,
        I have a discussion going with local wind promoters. They have claimed that renewables can stand on their own.
        Now I need to put a presentation together to the contary. Unfortunately your link is paywalled.
        I have seen bits here but didn’t gather them up. Generally I attack global warming, greenhouse gases, but this has caught me unprepared.
        Initially I need short statement that I can latter back up with pages if they take up the challenge. Past experience says they will create new subject, dodge, but I need firm data in case they do. I am takeing on professionals here.
        Doug

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        • #
          Robber

          Farmer Doug, a simple demonstration that wind cannot stand alone:
          Consider a wind farm, nameplate capacity 300 MW.
          On average, that will deliver 90 MW.
          However, unrelated to demand, output will vary from 0-200 MW.
          When output is zero, a reliable generator must be immediately available to make up that 90 MW deficit.
          That may be a 100 MW gas generator.
          When wind output is 200 MW, a reliable generator must reduce its output by 110 MW, thereby reducing its income.

          So to meet a demand that averages 90 MW reliably, the assets must include the 300 MW wind generator, a 100 MW gas generator and another 110 MW underutilised generator.
          Idle assets, higher costs.

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          • #
            FarmerDoug2

            Robber
            I wrote a simmilar arguement and got this reply.
            (Coppied from Apsley Advocate, Walcha Telecottage
            5. 8. 2020)
            Coal v Renewable Energy
            I would like to respond to the letter from Doug Wild in a recent Advocate. Now
            that renewable energy technologies have improved efficiency and reduced
            costs they have moved from being boutique into mainstream generators.
            Now there are no subsidies for renewables and they compete with new coal
            and gas generation on an equal footing.
            Our coal generators are old and need replacing soon. There is a lot of interest
            in renewable energy at present as wind and solar farms now provide the
            cheapest form of new electricity generation. This is understood by Australian
            Energy Market Operator (AEMO) who run the electricity system and has
            been shown in studies undertaken by the CSIRO and ANU.
            This is born out in the marketplace. AGL the owner of Liddell could replace
            it with a new coal plant if it was cheaper to do so but have decided not to
            do this. Instead they have invested in renewable energy projects. Cheaper
            renewable generation is lowering the cost of electricity. The Winterbourne
            Wind project north east of Walcha could be used to provide replacement
            generation capacity when Liddell closes. This project will provide jobs and
            additional income in Walcha.
            Coal generators are very slow to start and are slow to respond to changes
            in demand from the grid. We use fast acting gas plants and hydro plants to
            fill the needs of the grid that coal generators cannot provide. Now we have
            the option of responding to the demands on the grid with large batteries for
            stabilisation of the grid or pumped hydro systems like Snowy 2.0 (or the
            Dungowan Pumped Hydro Project) for times when renewables or interstate
            transmission systems can’t provide for all the system demand. On the
            New England the wind resource is stronger at night which will assist with
            the balancing of grid demand and generation. The cost of battery storage
            systems continues to fall and will become more competitive than fast acting
            gas plants in the near future.
            Renewable energy projects do not need to be backed up 100% by fossil
            fuel generators. In South Australia AEMO manages a grid where there is no
            coal generation and gas provides under 50% of the electricity supply. The
            remainder comes from renewables, storage and interstate connections to
            Victoria. The SA Liberal Government is targeting 100% renewables by 2030.
            It is encouraging to see the NSW Government planning for the replacement
            of the NSW coal generators with initiatives like the New England Renewable
            Energy Zone announced two weeks ago.
            All generators need to be decommissioned and disposed of properly. These
            plans are part of the environmental conditions for any project whether it is
            Liddell and its adjacent coal pit or a wind or solar farm. Fortunately for a
            wind farm the scrap value of the steel is more than enough to pay for the
            decommissioning of the turbines and afterwards the land can still be used
            for grazing.
            Apart from the economic benefits, renewable energy generation is clean
            and does not pollute the air with emissions that harm our health or contribute
            to climate change.
            Mark Waring , Walcha Energy

            The Telecottage wouldn’t print my reply so I went direct to Mark. I need a comprehensive arguement, with numbers. Meanwhile I have to communicate with my “neighbors”.
            Doug

            30

            • #
              Robber

              Dr Alan Finkel, Australian Chief Scientist:
              Levelised costs:
              Wind (no backup) $92/MWhr
              Solar (no backup $91/MWhr
              Solar (12 hours backup) $172/MWhr
              New Coal $76/MWhr
              New Gas $82/MWhr
              Wind and solar thrive because as well as receiving the wholesale price of about $60/MWhr they also get to sell certificates priced at around $40/MWhr.

              “Renewable energy projects do not need to be backed up 100% by fossil fuel generators.” Oh yes they do – SA relies on backup from Vic coal and gas generators.
              Look at the excess capacity needed in SA – to meet a demand that peaks at about 3000 MW in summer. they have 3,462 MW of gas and diesel, 2,142 MW of wind (nameplate) so about 600 MW on average, 378 MW of large solar and about 1,200 MW of rooftop solar. Oh, and a BIG 100 MW battery that can run for just over 1 hour.

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            • #
              Graeme No.3

              FarmerDoug2:

              I wonder if you should point out the SA has the highest percentage of renewables AND the highest cost of electricity in Australia. The same applies with California. Where is this cheapest source of electricity? Hepburn Spa wind farm makes a loss on selling wind electricity but an overall profit from selling renewable certificates (subsidies) paid by ALL consumers through a price rise by retailers).
              And then point out that the necessary storage required isn’t paid for by the renewables scheme. Thus batteries**, transmission lines (e.g. the proposed one from SA to NSW), pumped storage e.g. Snowy2 are not being charged to those producers. Obviously these are necessary with an increase in variable generation. [also add the cost of frequency stabilisers like the $160 million worth of synchronous condensers being installed in SA].

              **and batteries will be cheap real soon, I first heard that around 1985. Suggest we wait UNTIL they are cheap.
              And batteries consume at least 12% of the electricity input, and pumped storage about 25%, so both add extra cost to variable generation.

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            • #
              RickWill

              The fallacy in this argument is that so-called “renewable energy” does not need to be back by fossil fuel generators. The clue is in the phrase ‘interstate connection to Victoria’.

              The weather dependent generators in South Australia do not stand alone. They already have a 650MW link to Victoria that they can use on ‘charge’ or ‘discharge’ without limit on capacity most of the time. SA and NSW are jointly funding a 850MW link between the states to support increases in intermittent generation in SA. That will force up prices in NSW like has already occurred in Victoria after Hazelwood was forced to close. Any modelling to the contrary is simplistic and wrong.

              Without the Victorian interconnector, SA would need at least another 650MW in gas generation. There would be many more occasions when the wind generators were curtailed because price was negative and many more events that required market intervention for stability reasons.

              Where will Victoria find its 2400MW battery of infinite capacity and NSW its 4000MW battery of infinite capacity to match what SA has achieved. You may think that Snowy and Snowy 2 provide the battery but they have way less than infinite capacity in the context of the required power rating. The storage capacity is in the context of rated power output for about 1 month.

              Anyone who uses the term ‘renewable’ in a commercial context when describing the current weather dependent generators is guilty of misrepresentation. They can never produce the energy over their operating life needed to enable their replication and support the needs of modern society. They are a one-off courtesy of coal. There is no country producing the materials needed for wind turbines doing it without using coal. There are technologies available but none are currently;y viable at scale.

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          • #
            yarpos

            and that is just in pure capacity terms

            Every unit of grid wind and solar increases manangement complexity and worsens grid stability. These also tend to push costs up for management systems, people, extra transmission, synch condensors and batteries.

            60

        • #
          RickWill

          The only way you can win an argument is to test their financial case. There is good prospect of that case being sound. They can probably produce power at a lifetime cost of $50/MWh. It is highly likely that they will sell at an average price well above this. Then they will get the LGC subsidies for the short term; albeit these are declining but are still significant compared to $50/MWh.

          The main problem with wind generation is its intermittency. It forces out coal generators and replaces them with gas and diesel because these plants can respond rapidly to meet the added variability created by the intermittent generators.

          At the system perspective, more intermittent generation forces up system costs. But that does not mean that wind generators cannot make money. The added costs are passed on to consumers.

          There are two adverse factors for intermittent generators where they may have made unrealistic assumptions. These are (a) the loss factor associated with transmission losses, which has significant impact on remote locations (b) increasing level of output curtailment may cause a significant reduction in the achieved capacity factor. Curtailment becomes an increasing impost as the amount of connected wind generation increases.

          The Age article on AGL was only about AGL’s bottom line. That would have no bearing on the proponents of a wind farm. It delights greenies when coal generators suffer financially.

          So unless your wind farm proponent has a system perspective, you cannot win a debate on the finances of the project. At this stage, the costs are not distributed in a way that benefits the consumer. It is not difficult to make money from connecting an intermittent generator to the grid. The penalties for doing that are not born by the new generator but rather by the consumer and existing base demand generators.

          If the rules enable any intermittent generator to make money then someone is going to do it. Why should the generator be concerned with the price that consumers have to pay.

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  • #
    Chad

    So,, the 3 Gorges dam survived yet another “record Maximum” water inflow peak (74,000cum/sec) , even if downstream did have to suffer even more deviststion.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    What if both the following happen:

    A) No C-19 vaccine is developed soon or at all? A vaccine for this human coronavirus may not even be possible, e.g. no vaccine for SARS-1 or one one of the viruses responsible for the common cold which is a coronavirus.

    B) Prophylactic treatments or disease treatments such as HCQ or ivermectin cocktails or budesonide etc. are not allowed to be used by government. It is specifically against the law in Australia in Victoriastan and elsewhere to use HCQ, plus the use of other cheap, inexpensive, safe and possibly effective drugs are also frowned upon and doctors are discouraged from prescribing. A medical doctor friend even had his prescription for ivermectin questioned.

    How much economic and social destruction are people prepared to accept when it is mostly deadly in one group only, the elderly who should be protected plus also given HCQ, zinc and Vit D prophylaxis?

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    • #
      Annie

      What is behind this refusal to use cheap safe medications? The deaths and severe damage to some sufferers of Covid-19 should be heavily on the consciences (if they have any?) of those responsible. It is utterly disgraceful.

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        In the US it is political. Blue state governors are OK with a high death toll because they can blame Trump, and then when Biden is elected they will put their hand out for the trillions needed to repair the destruction in their cities and damaged economies. How could Biden deny them?

        I have no idea why things are banned here in Aus. I think there is a distinct lack of testosterone, and an overabundance of caution. No one individual outside of the Fox studios [Bolt, Panahi and Dean] will call it as it is.

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        RickWill

        You are a young doctor. You have a Covid patient. The TGA ‘strongly discourages’ off-label prescription of HCQ because it has not shown benefit in clinical trials. You have liability insurance that has uncertain provisions for off-label prescribing. Do you or don’t you prescribe HCQ against TGA guidelines. It is what can be easily termed a no-brainer.

        It is worth noting that St Vincent Hospital in Melbourne is currently conducting a HCQ trial as a prophylactic treatment against Covid but only for their staff.

        I know for certain that medical practitioners in Australia were concerned about HCQ shortages if it was widely prescribed earlier in the year. Now we have the situation where Clive Palmer will probably need to dump a large amount of the drug that he acquired.

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    • #
      Lucky

      What if-

      They will easily find, using current test devices, a steady stream of infections.
      Lockdowns and surveillance will increase. The public will relish their new role of informing on quarantine violations. Protesters if any will be arrested as terrorists and incarcerated. The Great Leader (Interim), relishing every moment will appear daily on the media making serious speeches about challenges, responsibility, the evil of selfishness as displayed by those who think individuals matter more than the common good.
      Special groups such as young pioneers will have exemption certificates from lockdown for marches and for hunting saboteurs.
      Translation from the Chinese of instruction manuals for the above measures will be a growth industry as would be all aspects of security.
      Large orders of CCP flags will be ordered in to fly on government buildings in preparation for the state visit in which the treaty of friendship between the great peoples will be signed.
      From that point, there are no new infections, lockdowns and quarantine are no longer needed, and the economy ramps up to full output of veg and dairy products for export, not to mention construction of the new port and military base. There is rather a large loan to pay off.

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    el gordo

    There are rumours circling that ‘free to air’ TV will have vanished from the landscape within five years, except for the ABC and SBS.

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      David Maddison

      Will we even have a viable country or economy in five years? Even before the virus crisis the country was going down the drain. With the virus crisis the government won’t free the economy without a vaccine which may or may not be possible. Plus the government strongly discourages or won’t allow off label use for cheap, safe drugs like HCQ or ivermectin and only wants a big pharma solution. No vaccine and no use of off label drugs means certain economic and social destruction.

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      yarpos

      We havent watched free to air for 12 years since we moved to our current place, except maybe fo whoever streams the Oz Open each year and that is streamed.

      I will not mourn their passing, the rubbish I see when travelling is , well, rubbish. Its a shame the SBS and ABC couldnt dissapear down the same plug hole.

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    • #
      beowulf

      Nigel Farage along with former BBC2 host/former Sunday Times editor Andrew Neil are going to front a new Discovery TV “GB News” channel for Murdoch. They are a formidable pair, so the UK might finally get a real balanced news service to take on the woke UK SKY and the ultra-woke BBC.

      Nigel has been doing a lot of freelance journalism on the illegal immigrant boat arrivals and 4 star hotel accommodation in England recently, which the MSM ignored for several months after he broke the story. Meanwhile, Neil has been clashing with the lefties, so the Beeb took the excuse of budget cuts to dump him. Bad move.

      Neil was only just put forward by Boris as his preferred candidate as the new BBC Chairman to shake it up and restore faith in the BBC. That organisation will have to do without restored faith apparently as Neil gives it the finger and sets up in opposition.

      https://britannianews.co.uk/2020/08/22/andrew-neil-and-nigel-farage-are-set-to-head-up-a-brand-new-news-channel-gb-news-in-the-new-year-to-rival-the-bias-bbc-and-sky-news/

      All this won’t happen until the new year unfortunately. It’ll send a shudder through the MSM and through Whitehall too. Boris will get his feet held to the fire. Pity it isn’t happening right now over his multiple balks on Brexit, the EU Army commitments, immigration, crime etc.

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    David Maddison

    Has Sweden reached C-19 herd immunity?

    https://youtu.be/WkkDgcwmzR4

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    beowulf

    The latest on postal voting fr**d.

    Cher, yes THE Cher, is going to volunteer at her local Post Office “to stop Trump stealing 2020”.

    Oh wait . . . no she’s not. She rang 2 post offices. They don’t take volunteers, especially useless prima donnas with inch-long fingernails who would just get in the way and demand a champagne and makeup break every quarter hour. Besides she would have to have a background check and her fingerprints taken. They wanted to treat her like a pleb! She’s let that idea slide and has gone back to raving on Twitter.

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    MP

    I think this UN video will clarify whats going on. Pretty much spell it out.
    Worst song ever.
    Armed UN peace keepers, look for the symbolism.

    Wake up people

    https://youtu.be/W3epbzoBYFI

    With a bit of extra narrative

    https://youtu.be/AiBRu4cE-0k

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    David Maddison

    It’s good these trials with HCQ and ivermectin will be done overseas because there is little chance of approval in Australia, even though one of the investigators is an Australian doctor. (I am aware there is a trial of HCQ for prophylaxis in Melbourne but at the slovenly pace of Australian governments I have little confidence of approval any time soon if the trial is successful.)

    https://www.trialsitenews.com/topelia-therapeutics-leading-studies-to-commercialize-ivermectin-targeting-covid-19-infection/

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    Another Ian

    “GLOBAL WARNING the movie was just nominated for SIX Alberta Film and Television Awards including BEST DIRECTOR – DOCUMENTARY FEATURE”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/08/22/global-warning-the-movie-was-just-nominated-for-six-alberta-film-and-television-awards-including-best-director-documentary-feature/

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    David Maddison

    Doctors are urging governments not to compel Australians to get a COVID-19 vaccine, warning the fast-tracked approval process could create a risk of harmful side effects.

    Australian Medical Association President Omar Khorshid said while the peak body was “very supportive of vaccination generally because of its extensive science behind the safety, it’s not going to be the case for a COVID vaccine, at least initially.”

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/no-jab-no-play-the-wrong-approach-to-covid-19-vaccine-doctors-warn-20200821-p55o70.html

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    David Maddison

    Charlie Kirk interviews the “Frontline Doctors” on the subject of C-19 and HCQ.

    https://youtu.be/nn2P4-cK_K8

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  • #
    TdeF

    And I wanted to comment on Burn Loot and Murder ‘movement’.

    In England, the United States, Australia, all over the world at once? How?

    Six months ago, it was an obscure Marxist movement out of South Africa and an attack on Cecil Rhodes.

    Then a violent career criminal dies in Minneapolis on 25 May 2020 while they are attempting to restrain him and the world explodes into racial accusations against the police and privileged whites? And this huge unrestrainable violent man had Covid 19 and had amphetamines and fentanyl in his system and was complaining about not being able to breathe in the car before all this. A disaster waiting to happen.

    So what’s the connection between one man in Minneapolis and aborigines in Australia? Where was all this before the news of George Flloyd in Minneapolis? Why was there a big BLM march in Melbourne Australia less than two weeks later (6 June 2020)? Not opposed by the same Premier who now has everyone else locked in their own houses under curfew, but not a BLM march? A whole city of 5 million people cannot go out but BLM ‘protesters’ can march?

    Does anyone doubt this is all organized, even internationally? Does anyone doubt this is all approved by people at the top and Premier Daniel Andrews agreed so the march went ahead even though the city was locked down? So why did our Premier think this was so exceptional, so urgent it couldn’t wait, so necessary because a man died in Minneapolis only 11 days before? There was never any slavery in Australia. The country almost didn’t exist before the Gold Rush in 1851 and before then they had convicts to do the work. Melbourne almost didn’t exist and slavery was outlawed by the British in 1933, 2 years before Melbourne was founded.

    And how did Captain James Cook, Lord Nelson, George Washington and endless others suddenly become heinous villains whose statues should be defaced, torn down and their great, world changing feats erased from history? These people fought for the freedoms we now all enjoy and they were not in the slightest responsible for the position of Black Africans in world history, but suddenly they are villains.

    Now tell me this is not organized and approved at the highest levels as an attack on Western democracies. And Daniel Andrews agreed.
    Of course Victoria now has twice the Kung FLu cases of the whole country just two months ago. But Black Lives Matter? No, this is something else. This is organized.

    And not only should our Premier be charged with hundreds of cases of manslaughter for the people who have died because he handed jobs out with no concern, he needs to explain exactly why he approved a march in the middle of all this, connected now to the deaths from the Housing Commission flats. His new laws, promulgated in July 2020, makes any chief executive responsible and a charge of manslaughter is due. This is Daniel Andrew’s law, to catch chief executive who duck and blame underlings. Now let him explain.

    As Robert Gottliebsen explained this weeks, such laws usually contain exemptions for public officials and servants like chief executive Daniel Andrews. But it doesn’t. Now I would like to know why the BLM march was approved, permitted. And we are now all locked in our houses. Perhaps they would like another march? And while they are at it, what about responsibility for those fire fighters who died in the bush fires blamed on Climate Change? Not Daniel Andrews refusal to take the advice of multiple Royal Commissions on backburning.

    If he was the Chief Executive of a big corporation, he would be charged. Under his own law, he should be. And forced to explain why so many died on his watch, as a direct consequence of his inexplicable decisions.

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    David Maddison

    If we ever rid the country of the virus or just accept it, what happens with the regular flu? Here are the number of influenza deaths in Australia over the last few years.

    2014 189
    2015 222
    2016 273
    2017 1181
    2018 148

    Will regular flu deaths now become unacceptable justifying further shut downs and lock ups?

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    • #
      TdeF

      No, they are no longer acceptable. We had the technology. There are a whole host of viruses which should be banned forever from every country and they are not acceptable. Rabies for example.

      And we must bring back what we had for a hundred years, health checks at every point of entry and a record of innoculations. We became lazy in the 1990s and the huge tourist dollar was all important, but I still carry my up to date immunization book. Many go to India, for example, with no immunization at all. And the middle East. The risk is not only incredible, it is totally unnecessary. The tour buses in Egypt stop at the pharmacies because everyone is sick.

      Just think of how much effort we make to keep pest diseases like Fruit Fly and Aphids out of our orchards and wine industry. Can’t we do a bit more for the humans? Come in by all means with the latest flu, but are you carrying any fruit?

      We stopped smallpox. Tuberculosis has been under control in the West. The world stopped Ebola and SARS, MERS, Swine Flu, Bird Flu, almost all out of China. Put an African Ethiopian ‘freedom fighter’ in charge of WHO and suddenly there was no declaration of a pandemic and over half a million have died as a direct consequence of his declaration that WHO has decided Covid-19 (not Wu Flu) was not infectious.

      And whatever the cost, England lost 1,000 people a day. We would have lost 500 people a day. And as Jo pointed out, many of those who survived have no life, damaged lungs, heart, kidneys, bowel and much shortened life expectancy and lowered quality of life. Few of the 20% who get very sick escape unscathed and then there is the incredible suffering. All utterly useless suffering and death. That is all totally unacceptable. When did ‘the economy’ become our only reason for living? When did economists become our moral guides?

      It should not happen again. And Tedros Adhanom should be dragged before the court in Den Hague for crimes against Humanity. He is no doctor, but a communist appointed stooge. Like so many in the UN. And our very own Daniel Andrews.

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        TdeF

        We have extremely strict quarantine restrictions for animals. And very strong control of incoming foodstuffs. But nothing at all for tourists even from disease ridden areas. Plus the annual latest European flus which arrive in our spring to kill the annual thousand people. No controls or quarantine for people whatsoever. That cannot be right. I am very happy we do not have rabies. We should stop TB as well. We brought it in after the Vietnam war and now it is arriving, unrestricted, from Africa.

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    David Maddison

    Isn’t it odd that until the Chinese virus the Left were opposed to big pharma and conservatives supported them? Now conservatives are generally opposed to big pharma and the possibility of compulsory poorly tested vaccinations and would prefer off-label use of cheap, safe and effective drugs like HCQ and ivermectin (used appropriately).

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      TdeF

      As Peter C. would agree, I don’t think the pharmaceutical industry is correctly characterised as ‘big pharma’, like a monster. Anymore the individuals in the UN or the IPCC or the WHO. Most people are good and without the pharmaceutical industry, life would be short and brutal in our crowded cities. There are drugs for just about everything. And most are cheap. Its often just the people at the top, like Tedros Adhahom and Daniel Andrews.

      But when you talk of wonder drugs with the potential to make hundreds of billions in quick profits to justify billions in risky rapid R&D, it’s a different world of big business, big government and greed. That is what makes people very suspicious of big pharmaceutical companies run by individuals who would be very tempted put their own and company interests first. It’s what they do. And who wants a cheap solution? The public just wants a solution. At any cost. Yes, it’s a massive profit motive, but that does produce innovation unlike socialized research where no one takes a risk.

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      • #
        PeterS

        Often the illusion of a silver bullet solution is more attractive to politicians than a suite of more effective solutions as the latter would take too much effort to roll out.

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      Peter C

      The problem here is political, rather than philosophical. Our ministers are so risk averse for themselves that they won’t even ask their advisors to answer searching questions, such as;
      1. What is the real evidence for and against the use of HCQ, Invermectin, Zinc etc?
      2. Why have the medical research institutions not constituted trials to test these substances in the best way as clinically indicated?
      3. Why have the health departments and the pharmaceutical boards recommended banning potentially useful drugs from clinical use during the Covid pandemic?
      4. Why are the treatment protocols of the CovidShield trial not publicly available on their website?

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    beowulf

    After their stirling job handling the Corona scare, VIC Labor MPs deserve bigger super payouts . . . according to them.

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/08/victorian-labor-mps-make-submission-to-bring-back-lucrative-pensions-scheme.html

    Lifelong annual payments of at least $84,000 for MPs who have served at least 2 terms are on the agenda again. The longer they serve, the more they walk away with. I wonder if that will continue to apply if they get locked up for industrial manslaughter over the meatworks and hotel quarantine fiascos for which they are responsible?

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  • #
    David Wojick

    Something of possible interest that I just posed on Judith Curry’s blog.

    Solving the ECS problem

    ECS = Equilibrium climate sensitivity to doubling the atmospheric CO2 concentration from 280 ppm to 560 ppm. ECS is the anchor of AGW. The problem is that estimates of ECS vary widely and have not narrowed in over 40 years.

    Here is my comment:

    At some point the question should change from “what is ECS?” To “why does the estimate of ECS not converge? (Given the vast sums spent there on.) In fact with CMIP6 the spread is widening.
    I offer a simple starting point explanation for the lack of convergence:
    1. The climate system is a far from equilibrium system (this is a highly technical statement that I do not elaborate).
    2. Thus any estimate of ECS requires a huge simplification, such that one is no longer talking about reality. (I am reminded of the physics joke — “First assume a spherical chicken.”)
    3. The estimated value of ECS is very sensitive to the specifics of this simplification.

    Thus the wide range of ECS estimates is simply due to the wide range of simplifications. This has nothing to do with the nature of the climate system. It is all about the nature of climate science.

    https://judithcurry.com/2020/08/19/emergent-constraints-on-tcr-and-ecs-from-historical-warming-in-cmip5-and-cmip6-models/#comment-924332

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    • #
      Robber

      David, surely there is now data on the temperature impact of CO2 concentration rising from 280 ppm to 413 ppm?
      So the remaining question is whether the future change will be exponential, linear or logarithmic.

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      The basic physics and thermodynamic imperatives of the atmospheric interaction with CO2, whether natural origin human origin, are that CO2 cannot “heat” the planet.

      There’s only one discrete parcel of energy from the sun that’s delivered to the surface each day and that energy cannot do Double Duty.

      Physics says that there is No Greenhouse gas heating.

      It’s all about management of a limited quantity of Solar Energy each day, and while the IPCCCCC might like to have people believe that the greenhouse effect is real “The Science” says otherwise.

      Earth’s biggest worry is not CO2, it is Political Distortion of science for the purposes of the redistribution of wealth, political control and personal aggrandisement.

      KK

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      • #

        Your words as always are just words. And as usual you put in the red herring of double duty which no one with any knowledge of EMR or thermodynamics ever suggests.

        Do you have a problem with mirrors?

        05

      • #
        David Wojick

        It is double duty in the sense that the random walk the energy takes before leaving the system (going into space) is a bit longer than it otherwise would be without the GHGs, so the amount of resident energy is higher. This in no way implies that increasing the minor GHG of CO2 has to increase the resident energy. Observation says it has not:
        https://www.cfact.org/2018/01/02/no-co2-warming-for-the-last-40-years/.

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        • #
          Kalm Keith

          David.

          A little bit of truth relating to water in the atmosphere being associated with a “delay” of movement of very low virtue energy to space.

          This truth, however, does not validate the concept of CO2 doing anything in the nature of greenhouse heating.

          Between approx 30 metres above ground level and 14,000 metres CO2 is part of the atmosphere and behaves only according to the controlling gas laws; e.g. PV=nRT.

          There’s no CO2 “backradiation” and hence the IPCCCCC meme is nonsense at best.

          Considering the constant misdirection involving CO2 it might be guessed that there are commercial and political benefits involved in the game somewhere.

          KK

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        • #

          That is not what KK is implying about double duty. He has ideas that certain types of ways of energy movement or transfer contravene some law or other.

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            Kalm Keith

            The nonsensical Enviro IPCCCCC conceptualization was that CO2 high in the atmosphere could backradiate “energy” to the earth/ocean and thus heat everything up.

            An obvious nonsense involving “double duty”.

            Up in the clouds at say 0°C there’s no way that CO2 can send energy back to the surface which is at 10 to 15°C.

            Energy moves down the temperature gradient and that is why the miserable energy from the surface at 15°C is so drawn to the minus 273.14°C of deep space.

            And that’s why up where the jets fly at 10,000metres and minus, yes minus 38°C the miserably impotent energy remnants in the atmosphere are drawn inexorably down the energy gradient to deep space.

            It ain’t going back to reheat the earth.

            KK

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              robert rosicka

              Thank you KK this is one of the best descriptions of this AGW fake science I’ve seen !

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            • #

              Again. You are making up things. Photons travel in the direction they are emitted and no evidence has ever been found to the contrary.

              Find a new thing KK. It is getting stale. Or better still call up your mate so he can do some name calling.

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                Kalm Keith

                There are two imaginary concepts used to help real scientists describe and work with the incredibly small business end of atomic theory:
                one is waves and the other is photons.

                In reality there’s no such thing as a miniature billiard ball called a photons.

                Nor are there any waves.

                Let’s wave goodbye to photons and just accept that energy can’t fly unimpeded like a little billiard ball back to the surface.

                KK

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              • #

                Love the “real” bait from Keith, with no publication record or research experience but an undergrad degree that he believes is a qualification for life. Tell me your definition of real? Is real those who you agree with?

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              • #

                it’s not worth it el G. Remember how all the skeptic sites abandoned/barred any Slayer discussion from the end of 2012 because it was filling up their blogs with fetid drool?

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                Peter C

                an undergrad degree that he believes is a qualification for life.

                He believes correctly. Undergraduate degrees may be a starting point for further qualifications, but they are not withdrawn under normal circumstances.

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              • #
                Kalm Keith

                GA

                From E.G.s link:

                “This animation is somewhat of a simplification.”

                Go and read it.

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              • #

                A BSc is not a recognised qualification. It doesn’t allow you to claim to be a scientist. A scientist is a person who does science not someone with a degree. An Arts degree doesn’t make you a historian or an author or an artist. There is no acrediting professional society for science either.

                Even vocational degrees like Law and dentistry require evidence of practical knowhow and ongoing proof of currency. Science relies on you actually doing science for recognition.

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              • #

                *… practical know how and ongoing proof of currency to continue to practice as a lawyer or a dentist.

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                robert rosicka

                Watched Elgordo’s link and I noticed the bit about the warming of the atmosphere from IR colliding with CO2 , as KK says the further up you go the colder it gets .
                This warming that’s happening up there must be pretty small because from what I’ve seen there is no evidence to prove anything is warming up there .

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              Kalm Keith

              So GA responds to the science by attempted denigration.

              The concept of “double duty” of energy was put forward by the Warming Glitterati when they pushed the ridiculous concept of “back radiation”.

              So, if you have a real qualification, a PhD, you can imagine a discrete billiard ball photon being emitted from a CO2 molecule and ultimately hitting earths surface.

              In reality that energy pulse, being in a close packed gas, the atmosphere, would have a mean free path closer to millimeters than kilometers.

              It has so little energy that it is contained by the surroundings and has no ground heating potential.
              If anything happens it would only be gas expansion, reduction in density and convection to re-set the equilibrium at higher colder altitude.

              KK

              ?

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              • #
                el gordo

                Clive Best has a tight grip on what is happening and a reminder to the quiet lurkers that H2O is by far the biggest greenhouse gas.

                http://clivebest.com/blog/?p=4475

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                Peter C

                Gee Aye says his field is evolutionary biology.

                That hardly qualifies him to opine about radiative physics and thermodynamics. Everything else he says is rubbish.

                I have to prove a lot on ongoing learning in my field but, as far as I know, research scientists do not have to do that. They just have to push out a few papers and apply for grants.

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      Peter C

      Archibald hits back:

      David Archibald August 23, 2020 at 6:33 pm
      One thing I find terribly amusing about you Willis is that if other people don’t see the world exactly as you see it you get affronted, jump up and down on the spot and stamp your little feet. Our graphs do look different and there is no doubting your technical ability so I now accuse you of truncating the data set. When I switch Omniweb to ‘List Data’, the last data point is:
      2020 223 25021
      That is missing from your graph. It is “much below 5E+4” – as in half. I don’t think you did it deliberately to mislead. Omniweb is updated to March 18, 2020 and you most likely used a earlier date as your endpoint. But I am charitable like that, always trying to see the good in people.

      I haven’t seen a response from Willis yet.

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        el gordo

        Should be fun to watch, I’ll bring the popcorn.

        Javier reckons the solar influence is negligible, “the New Cold Period is just wild fantasy.”

        I’m inclined to believe him.

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          Peter C

          1. Javier turns on Willis!

          Javier August 23, 2020 at 2:51 pm
          I guess I’m the only person here who cares enough to try to replicate your data … sorry, I couldn’t.

          There is only one difference between your graph and Archibald’s, and that is the last point. Since it is a 27-day average, didn’t occur to you before saying this that the difference is due to the graph being called on a different day and that affecting the average that constitutes the last point?

          Geez, what a blunder, Willis. Making an issue for one point out of more than 720. The downward trend is unmistakable.

          2. Now is the “New Cold Period a Wild Fantasy?”
          I think the issue described by David Archibald is that the Little Ice age was a period of Very Low Sunspot Activity. Now we are in another period of very low sunspot activity and the question is: will a cold period result from that? Still open in my view. I agree that there has not been much cooling as yet.

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            el gordo

            ‘ … will a cold period result from that? Still open in my view.’

            Agreed, its a close run thing, we still have to prove solar forcing is behind climate change. An extended period of quiet sun should increase blocking, which is directly implicit in creating weather extremes.

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    Robber

    That unreliable wind – currently in SA wind is delivering 17 MW with SA demand 2,000 MW. This morning wind was delivering 7 MW, but that big battery delivered 34 MW for about 20 minutes.
    Fortunately they still have gas, and Vic imports of 400 MW.

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    el gordo

    The face of a free radical unmasked.

    ‘A security guard who tested positive for the coronavirus after working at the hotel quarantine site linked to most of Victoria’s second wave cases made food deliveries and worked in a warehouse while symptomatic, inquiry heard.’ Oz

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    Peter C

    Sweden has Come out of Covid!

    A very interesting interview here by Rowan Dean and the team of Outsiders with Dr Sebastian Rushworth, an ED Doctor in Stockholm. Dr Rushworth says that for a short time his ED was almost overwhelmed with Covid patients but now they hardly see a case. Life is Stockholm is back to normal.
    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/new-zealand-s-covid-19-lockdown-is-extended-by-four-days/ar-BB18iuBd

    Scroll down to the bottom to see the Outsiders segment (9 minutes).

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    Orson

    As I was expecting and the day, too, Auckland, New Zealand gets extended round of isolation, going 4 days beyond the first two weeks. At least to Sunday midnight.

    Recent new community new Covid19 cases have been 1, 6, 9….
    This is a really tough virus, more communicable than the flu. Lessons learned.
    Kiwi complacency was suspected, but has not been indicated as the source of the first index
    case remains mysterious. Again, this is tough, as Australians, Koreans, Japanese, ets have learned.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424342/covid-19-what-happened-on-24-august

    Now, why does Sweden seem to be an exception? Dr Chris Martensen at peak prosperity (also on YouTube)
    has proposed the X,Y,Z hypothesis to account for the actual data, there as well as the curves seen elsewhere.

    I forget this tri-fold set of proposed variables. But some acquired or preexisting immunity from prior
    Corona virus exposure and T-cells is part of it,

    This odd proposal from late July? Early August? is gaining strength.

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    robert rosicka

    Finally a truly renewable energy, efficient car .

    https://youtu.be/jZ0cmw3CXbM

    20