JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Who knew? Most people in lockdown like their own families

It turns out being locked up in our own homes with our own families is not the end of the world

Some said the lockdowns would cause skyrocking divorces:

More couples will SPLIT and divorce rates will skyrocket as strict social distancing rules force partners to spend more time together

Instead, people like spending time with their partners and kids:

Lockdown is making us love our families MORE: Britons are less likely to split up from partners, are eating and sleeping more…

Of all those in live-in relationships, 37 per cent say the experience has led to them wanting to spend more time with their partner, as opposed to the ten per cent who are keen to broaden their horizons again.

A total of 26 per cent say their relationship has improved, while 13 per cent say it has worsened.

Only nine per cent of people think they are now more likely to split up as a result of lockdown, compared to 27 per cent who think it is less likely.

Respondents have, on the whole, also enjoyed being cooped up with their children, with 45 per cent saying it had left them wanting to spend more time with their offspring in future, and just 13 per cent wanting less time.

The survey by the Mail on Sunday finds that people are less likely to divorce, are arguing less, and in a shock, don’t mind spending more time with their spouse and kids. Since they are catching up on sleep, it may make getting along easier.

Deltapoll interviewed 1,564 British adults online on April 30 and May 1. The data has been weighted to be representative of the whole adult population.

This is not to forget that for some life is harder, and the financial pain is bad. (11% saw income go up but 38% said income went down). And we all acknowledge that lockdowns are tougher for singles, both for the young who can’t date and especially for older people living in solitary isolation. It may be singles and the 9% of couples “more likely to split” who said their mood got worse (30%) compared to the 23% who said their mood improved in lockdown.

In the UK, only 31% thought people should be allowed to sunbathe in parks and open spaces. 61% disagreed. Freedom means so much more than just the ability to wander the streets. There is a freedom from fear in places which had less freedom to move.

For those who have lost livelihoods and businesses,  governments could do more to to spread the pain fairly. In New Zealand public servants at least took a twenty percent shave. But in most lands the small business entrepreneurs and service industry workers bore most of the cost while the academics and public servants just worked from home.

It’s time for some to admit that an unplanned holiday in our homes is not a disaster for a large part of the population, nor was it unpopular. In other wars, people were separated for years, went hungry or were called up to put their lives on the line. In this war, health workers are paying a terrible price, but for others, the war effort means staying home and watching TV.

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Rating: 7.3/10 (51 votes cast)
Who knew? Most people in lockdown like their own families, 7.3 out of 10 based on 51 ratings

220 comments to Who knew? Most people in lockdown like their own families

  • #
    Annie

    We are fortunate, having some space around us. At this time of the year we can enjoy campfires, to burn some of the rubbish stuff that’s fallen off the gum trees and take a dose or two of prophylactic pink gin in the process. That’s fun! Only a couple of niggly exchanges in all these weeks!
    I do feel for those who are incarcerated in inner city flats; that would be hell on earth to me. :(

    230

  • #
    Annie

    Gosh! I used the h3ll word without thinking; silly me!

    120

    • #
      Geoff Croker

      Good to know people may like their families. Who’d have thought?

      Meanwhile we have destroyed our economy.

      Methinks this WILL destroy 100,000 families.

      So 100 dead, most off a cruise ship or Aged Care ……. for what?

      This will take a decade to recover from. Thousands will die.

      307

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Evidence for your assertions Geoff ?
        Some links from reputable sources ?

        518

        • #
          Geoff Croker

          Watch what happens next mate. Proof is happening all around us. Large numbers of businesses will cease to exist. The states control what happens not the Federal Govt. Living in Victoriastan is most interesting……

          325

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            I see Geoff that you use the future tense.
            Yes it’s hard to find evidence
            Of what has happened in the future
            Now
            Ditto for links & sources.

            Que sera, sera !

            822

            • #
              Geoff Croker

              There are millions of people on government welfare. Half the private economy. The idea that its all going to restart suddenly is a wet dream.

              186

              • #
                sophocles

                So, Geoff, if it more or less does restart suddenly, you will be so surprised you will fall over and … and … have something horrible happen to you.

                I love the way the gloomsters and the doomsters are right so little of the time, like that 13% figure above. The X-Spurts (that includes the MSM) all picked huge failures.

                Go The Humans!

                Best footy team on the planet :-D

                80

              • #
                el gordo

                Australia should experience a V shape return to normalcy and the whole economy will be invigorated.

                There are winners and losers, small marginal business should theoretically fall by the wayside. Its a relatively short sharp shock to the economy, but our people are resilient and the free enterprise system irrepressible, so this has been good for the country.

                Within a matter of weeks we’ll all be laughing.

                51

              • #
                bobl

                Sorry guys, thousands of people have lost thousands in income, they will also be scared of a relapse… They will NOT be spending.

                42

              • #
                Bill In Oz

                And others who have benefited are spending plenty.
                Swings & roundabouts !

                22

              • #
                Boris

                Geoff, didn’t you know that according to Elgordo & Snip] Bill that governments are committed to not having a recession/depression because they’ll print lots more money so everyone will fine and the economy will grow! LOL

                [Please Boris no more ]AD

                21

              • #
                bobl

                Bill, you claim to be sympathetic such that minimising deaths through a let her rip strategy is unacceptable because of the short term effects, but you ignore the plight of 6 million people out of work that somehow the 1% of them that might be slightly better off with job keeper will stave off the economic disaster. The 99% won’t spend, it’s a pattern that is repeated, faced with uncertainty people don’t spend. There is no V shaped recovery it’s probably going to be long and painful.

                20

              • #

                Bobl, guys. Smile. There’ll be a V shaped recovery if we can get rid of this virus fast. The short hard lockdown surely saves lives but compared to businesses being bled to death slowly over six months.
                Australians are so lucky compared to almsot everywhere else where the job of getting rid of it is harder, or there were never the resources to fight it properly anyhow.

                People won’t spend til they know the virus is gone and relax, and then a month later it will be a memory.

                21

              • #
                Bill In Oz

                In the past 2 months I have noticed that
                There are far more people buying stuff at
                Hardware stores
                Plant Nurseries and
                Homeware stores.
                And I’ve been getting some home repair work done
                The contractors tell me tat they are also busy.
                It seems to me like we have all just shifted
                Our spending pattern to buy the things we can get.
                But that has hurt a lot of folk offering service oriented businesses.
                I suspect it will change back
                As the lock down gradually eases.

                10

        • #
          MudCrab

          Intentional Self Harm is 12th (I believe) in causes of death in Australia.

          ABS website.

          Yes, the link between Intentional Self Harm and the repression of freedom may be harm to prove on short notice, but remember back to the same sex marriage era?

          What did they say? If ONE gay teen Intentional Self Harmed themselves fatally because they knew they couldn’t get married when they were older it would be too many?

          (Also remember a time when the MOST important thing in Australian debate was if the groom could kiss the groom?)

          21

      • #
        JanEarth

        Geoff the economy is going to rise by 6% in 2021 according to the RBA…their crystal ball is better than yours I reckon.

        Those who died will not come back…the economy will, it always does.

        1112

      • #
        TedM

        “Meanwhile we have destroyed our economy.”

        Just like we haven’t destroyed our families.

        Just who are the real alarmists .

        83

      • #
        Ian Hill

        Geoff, you seem to forget that when all this started happening it was a huge unknown. But we could see what was happening in Italy. The government had NO CHOICE but to act like they did, form the National Cabinet and close borders to ensure hospitals could cope with a possible avalanche of cases. They got it right, far better than anticipated. Jo got it right earlier on!

        The Ruby Princess was in the wrong place at the wrong time. People got on because they had paid. The mistake was letting them off. I believe the outcome of the enquiry will be a huge sensation!

        1311

        • #
          Geoff Croker

          In early January notices went out to morgues and cremotoriums to expand. This was at least two weeks before the government moved on international flights from China. This was the time when Jo said shut the international border. She was dead on the money.

          Our government believes they control the economy. Watch and see just how this pans out. We are a vassal of the USD and a supplier of commodities to Asia in USD.

          Locally, our economy has been built on air. Rampant printing via the fractional banking system.

          The only way out of this self-created mess is to lower our currency versus the USD. Last time it went just below 50c. This time it may have to go lower.

          113

          • #
            JanEarth

            Geoff

            It is the market that determines the value of the AUD. Sometimes the RBA tries to intervene but this time they have no bullets in the barrel for that. So it will do what it will dictated entirely by the markets. Chances are it will go lower but the market is too fickle to predict.

            20

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Well then Geoff, short the Aussie and make yourself a rich man.

            Or is that too much of a risk for you?

            30

            • #
              Bill In Oz

              His comments here could well be part of
              Doing exactly that.
              Sparking another reduction in the A$ value
              Having already secured his position in the market
              To benefit if it does.

              33

        • #
          RickWill

          The mistake was letting them off. I believe the outcome of the enquiry will be a huge sensation!

          I gave a green thumb for balance but I do not quite agree with the quoted sentence. The people on the previous cruise should not have been allowed off without checking for virus; some were sick. The cruise that caused the biggest issue should have never set sail. Carnival Cruises failed miserably in their duty of care to crew, passengers and others who were infected from that source.

          80

          • #
            Ian Hill

            Yes, I think I got that mixed up Rick. Thanks. My comment about the enquiry outcome applies to those who were allowed off without checking.

            40

        • #
          MudCrab

          No Choice, huh?

          Free will is a myth, time is fixed, everything has happened and will happened has already happened and will always happen, and don’t worry about the horribly things happening around you, you can’t affect them and besides, eventually you will live in an alien zoo with a hot blonde. Yes, Kurt Vonnegut was an interesting writer.

          There is always choice. Choice is easy. The hard bit is being willing to choose again.

          Unfortunately as it turns out, WE GOT IT WRONG, and as much as I hate to say this because I do love and respect Jo, Jo got it badly wrong as well. Remember the call to convert our industry to mass producing masks and ventilators because it was a ‘no brainer’? Remember how later discussion turned to the studies suggesting that blood clotting was more important and important to the degree that ventilators may actually be harmful? Remember looking at the state by state reports of exactly how many people were actually on ventilators.

          The trap here is attempting to equate ‘having enough’ with ‘getting it right’. Massively over reacting to something isn’t getting it right. It is avoiding the complications of being under prepared, but that doesn’t automatically mean you got it right because life isn’t a binary problem.

          Take example – you are having a house party. You need ice for the guest’s drinks. You don’t know so… 1000 bags. Turns out you needed 25. Yes you had the 25 bags required to successfully cool the drinks, but you now also have 975 bags of ice slowly melting on the back lawn. Out of 1000 and 30 bags, both would met your requirements, but only 30 bags would make you look like a savy party organiser.

          30 bags is getting it right.
          1000 bags was pointlessly wasting money to ruin your back lawn and money that could have been much better spent on hiring a bouncy castle.

          We got this wrong. Accept that and start working out how to correct the present and stop trying to retrospectively justify the past.

          95

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Nope, Mudcrab.

            You got that one wrong.

            The decisions taken were, in the main, the right ones.

            The closure of the border with Italy was a bit late (14 March as I recall) but the earlier shut-downs (China, Korea, etc) were right. These prevented a repetition of Italy, France, Spain, USA in Australia.

            Earlier would have been better, but we live in a democracy and people have to be brought along with the reasoning, if support is to be forthcoming. By and large the Australian population has supported the decisions. The evidence is clear on that. Just check the polling data if you want something more empirical that a statement of the fact.

            I fail to understand the moral/ethical position of those who think damage to the economy only comes from the action taken. Do they really think that doing nothing comes without economic consequences? Do they think that undertaking voluntary social distancing comes without economic consequences?

            All decisions associated with the control of the spread of a disease like Covid-19 come with economic consequences. And, in any case, the economy was already set for entry into a recession. The short-term/long-term interest rates had inverted. Oil had started to slide. The markets (Dow, All-Ords etc) were at a critical point, and unsustainably over-bought. So tell us how those factors might be teased out from the Covid-19 affect and you’ll be closer to the truth.

            There are so many unknowns about the onset of this virus and the optimum means of control as to make any action taken by governments open to the accusation of “GOT IT WRONG”.

            Your comments on masks and ventilators are nothing more than a cheap shot. A cheap shot that misrepresents the situation at the time. And, misrepresents the efficacy of wearing masks and PPE.

            What Australia (and NZ) achieved was a very, very low death rate (so far). That, above all else, is the best outcome possible.

            83

          • #
            yarpos

            Muddie, I already live with a hot blonde, you got anything else for me?

            00

      • #
        yarpos

        We havent destroyed our economy we have destroyed the level of economic activity. The infratructure and human capital that makes up our economy still exists, the bomb hasnt dropped or a tsunami swept through. Recovery will be difficult, messy , inconvenient, too slow and burdened by debts for sure but armageddon it isnt.

        114

        • #
          robert rosicka

          100% agree Yarpos , you have nailed it !

          62

        • #
          Geoff Croker

          An economy is built on saved capital and cash flow. It is NOT built on bricks and mortar. B&M is ONLY worth what the next buyer will pay to acquire them. It can actually be reduced to below zero in extreme cases.

          Cash Flow has been destroyed in 50% of the Private economy.

          74

          • #
            Ursus Augustus

            Where the heck do you think bricks and mortar come from Geoff. They are saved capital which when spent becomes building industry cash flow, someone elses saved capital etc and so on. Saved capital and cash flow also vary in relative value. You do understand what ‘exchange rates’ and ‘interest rates’ are? You are trying to stand up surf at Bell’s Beach on some kids boogie board Geoff.

            Umm, Geoff the lockdown is to prevent lots more people dying. Its a bit like road rules and speed limits and stuff, drug laws, building and engineering codes, ship stability requirements and watertight subdivision (i.e.NOT Titanic like) all that sort of silly stuff. Gosh imagine being delayed an hour getting from a to b due to say road works and whinging about no road workers were being killed so what was the problem?.

            Your sort of economic fundamentalist drivel is the dystopian end of consumerism, i.e. me, me, me, me. I WANT EVERYTHING NOW!! Shhhhh. Just talk to Alexa, she will promise you everything and you can sleep well.

            [ SNIP ] You’ve made your point let’s not over do it .] AD

            55

            • #
              Ursus Augustus

              Fair Cop AD. I did get going after my first coffee :-)

              Then again, Geoff comes across like some of the ‘green’ ‘eco loons’ normally the focus at this site but in the economic as against ecological part of the spectrum. Definitely on the spectrum so to speak, i.m.o.

              BTW, I haven’t copped that ‘made your point’ thing (well apart from my wife) since I got vigourously cross examined by a very senior QC many years ago (civil matter, not criminal). After about 30 minutes of up hill and down dale pursuit of my disagreeing with other expert witnesses, the bench pulled the pin in the QC’s high dudgeon saying ” I think the witness has made his point” and that was that. You are in good company AD. :-)

              43

          • #
            RickWill

            Australia will be looking very rosy when compared with some of the global basket cases.

            Taiwan has gained huge respect for it handling of CV19. Pressure mounting to allow the nation into the UN against CCP wishes.

            Sweden is losing respect as their CV19 death toll rises with no end in sight. US viewed as bungling and disjointed; lacking consistent, coherent leadership.

            22

            • #
              Bill In Oz

              And that USA issue, Ric is a major problem
              Emerging from this CCP virus/Covid disease pandemic.
              I don’t think CCP China planned it this way
              But they will be happy with these consequences in the USA.

              22

              • #
                Ursus Augustus

                The gift of Trump is finally generating dividends. I have been of a mind to blame the arrogance and sanctimoniousness of the Democrats and the US MSM for Trump and let the tosspot left suffer until they learn some humility but his performance re Covid 19 is beyond pareody.

                32

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Ursus, The Left dont learn.

                Currently there are several Democrat State governors who appear happy to implement communism in its full blown form by keeping the state economy shutdown to kill off jobs.

                The US is at risk of people rising up to defend their Constitutional rights, and throw out any local state governor if they prove to be effectively a domestic enemy of the people.

                The US military Oath:

                “I Do Solemnly Swear (Or Affirm) That I Will Uphold the Constitution of the United States of America, Against All Enemies, Foreign and Domestic…Pledging My Life, My Fortune, and My Sacred Honor. So Help Me God.” – US Military Oath of Service.

                And from the US Second Amendment :

                “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

                Interestingly, in some states, the militia is every able bodied person.

                We live in interesting times…..

                30

          • #
            JanEarth

            Geoff

            An economy is built on saved capital

            Struth

            Where have you been living the last 50 years.

            the World runs on debt and it will do for the rest of your life. When was the last time anyone bought a house with cash they saved ? Which country in the world has had a budget surplus this year ?? Debt fuels the economy and that is not a bad thing in and of itself. A nations budget is nothing like a household budget and drawing false equivalence is not helpful.

            The US is currently trillions in debt and they will never pay it off but that won’t make any difference as the US economy is doing fine considering. The PRC is also in debt as is Europe as is the UK. Nearly every single country on Earth is running on debt. Saved capital means nothing anymore until you get down to the micro (personal) level. It’s nice to have money in the bank even if it only attracts a couple of per cent interest.

            You should really refrain from making uninformed comment on Economics

            22

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Some of the risks as I see it :

          (1) Govt trying to control everything ( aka communist mentality ) – telling people to maintain social distancing for another 6 months will eventually be ignored by most sane people. It
          also ignores the reality people are social critters, and like barnacles like to clump together. If medically we have no issue, we also have no need for such measures.

          (2) Heavy handed response by govt – this *will* produce a backlash, possibly violent, against govt. Stupid/nasty/brutal govts choose to ignore this, and will suffer accordingly at the
          hands of the people. History tells us this. See video of ex-marine calling out riot police ( down further in these posts ) to do the right thing.

          (3) Govt attempting significant political/structural overhaul under the excuse of “we are at war” powers.

          There is a risk the govt will over-reach and attempt to re-engineer the country similar to 9 / 11 -driven changes. The Patriot Act and the hated T S A were supposed to
          be “temporary” measures.

          Cov19 is already showing with this with the app that is aided by a permanent change to the main mobile phones operating systems to support this globally. Will we see a tech-
          aparthied developing between those who choose to have the govts hand up their rear ends electronically vs those who refuse? Bear in mind this is is illegal, bit likely wont stop
          it. China has pioneered a social credit score system – its possible they will try it here if it suits them. People say “It cant happen here” – like 8 weeks of medical martial law?
          That “cant happen here” ?

          131

          • #
            PeterS

            Good commentary OS. At the risk of being shot down again, I repeat what I said some time ago. Can we get back to discussing an appropriate plan to rebuild Australia without the heavy reliance to this day by both major parties on reducing our emissions? If the answer is no we can’t then by all means let’s pretend all is going to be rosy again and stick our heads in the sand.

            112

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              See my post at the bottom of this topic.

              Europe is looking to green jobs to restart their economies…either they are incurably stupid, or want to lock europe into a green lunacy while everyone is dazed and confused , as instructed by their globalist masters.

              Committing hari kiri economically or physically has ultimately the same result….

              20

              • #
                PeterS

                If anything the pandemic crisis is being used but some as the excuse to escalate the urgency to reduce global emissions. If we are not careful the same could happen here. PM Morrison still believes we need to reduce our emissions.

                20

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Jo, as per the WEF link I sent you….timing ….coincidence?

                Almost right on cue….here comes the globalist green agenda, trying to cripple the economy by steering into green oblivion……warning…..

                This is gold plated complete globalist nonsense….

                https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/renewable-power-to-boom-on-cheap-money-as-coal-loses-out-garnaut-says-20200506-p54qdt.html

                “Economist Ross Garnaut says the economic crisis will lead to growth in renewable energy at the expense of coal, and argues we shouldn’t fear taking on debt to fuel a green economic recovery from the coronavirus pandemic.
                …………….
                “The low operating costs of renewable energy generation had enabled it to expand market share as electricity demand declines during the coronavirus pandemic. The high operating costs of coal-fired power, however, have caused its market share to shrink.
                ………..
                “Only renewables are holding up during the previously unheard-of slump,” the Agency’s executive director Dr Faith Birol said.

                “The global downturn had put “great pressure on coal based generation which is experiencing very low prices in the wholesale market,” Professor Garnaut said. “The natural economic thing is for early closures [of coal-fired power stations].”

                20

              • #
                Bill In Oz

                Greenist nonsense !
                Since when has Garnaut ever got things right ?
                He’s just pushing the green agenda
                For the post COVID world.
                Dopey idiot does not realise no one wants to listen

                10

      • #
        Bruce Parr

        Yes! Jo has no skin in this game. She does not have 3 of her 4 adult children thrown out of work like I do. Lockdown is easy for the childless.

        32

        • #

          Or perhaps you have no idea what Jo’s private family life is like since she doesn’t use it as a reason to change national policy?

          Many people were going to lose their jobs to this virus no matter what this government did. If the virus ran free, resturants bars and hairdressers would be half empty anyway. There’s no faster way to get the people back to almost full employment than to extinguish this virus in weeks instead of months. That’s what I’m working towards.

          40

  • #

    hmm.. lots of the journal daily mail in the last few weeks. Anyway, I’d like to see the science.

    83

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Actually it’s spot on when you think of it , you’re immediate family usually get on but mix in other relatives and that’s when the fights start .

      62

      • #

        Is the journal daily mail more biased than comrade academia work? Perhaps Gee Aye, you’d prefer I post a Stefan Lewandowsky survey of UK happiness.

        Is it so hard to believe that people like their families and homes?

        198

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        I saw a door mat once in the hardware:
        “Friends welcome anytime
        Relatives only by appointment”
        I almost bought it,
        But decided it might make a few relatives even more offended.

        63

    • #
      GD

      Anyway, I’d like to see the science

      Wow, Gee Aye, that’s unusual for you.

      10

  • #
    Environment Skeptic

    Astonishing!

    31

  • #
    UK-Weather Lass

    The Mail on Sunday is hardly a purveyor of truth, Jo, and making the best of something is not necessarily an indicator that you are actually enjoying the experience of doing so. I look to this kind of ‘survey data’ as being pure propaganda.

    I have already admitted that the UK lockdown appeared to be Johnson’s only choice because of years of relentless pressure placed on frontline health resources due to continued Government negligence and intransigence. It is possible that this negligence was criminal but that is a matter which may follow appropriate inquiry into the truth, which, of course, may never be revealed to us.

    With better planning and investment the UK’s response to Covid-19 may have been completely different to our current experience but we will never know – and that is the real issue. Nobody knows. Nobody can tell what these individuals, friends, families, businesses, etc. would have felt, thought, behaved in alternative scenarios and so attempting to assess responses is the manner of a survey such as this is futile in the extreme, IMO.

    132

    • #

      It wasn’t the austerity that make the lockdown of the UK inevitable. The negligence was flying in so many carriers of infectious deadly diseases. Once the virus was well spread among the UK population it was unfair on health workers to expect them to work in war time conditions for months on end. Not to mention the negligence of creating an economic disaster where a deadly virus runs free while people live in fear, stay home, avoid shops and restaurants, and keep their kids home from school. (Or the unfairness of giving up on the welfare of the older generation).

      Not many businesses would survive 6 months of viral-freedom.

      PS: Feel free to post links to peer reviewed studies…

      1310

      • #
        Jeffrey Dun

        “Not to mention the negligence of creating an economic disaster where a deadly virus runs free while people live in fear, stay home, avoid shops and restaurants….”

        One of the issues that has fascinated me about the current pandemic is comparing the developed worlds’ policy approach with its approach to previous pandemics.

        For example, the Hong Kong flu of 1968 is estimated to have killed around 1 million worldwide, with up to 100,000 in the USA, 60,000 in Germany and 80,000 in the UK.

        It must have been pretty nasty in some places because Wikipedia notes that, for example: “In Berlin, the excessive number of deaths led to corpses being stored in subway tunnels, and in West Germany, garbage collectors had to bury the dead due to insufficient undertakers…. In some areas of France, half the workforce was bedridden, and manufacturing suffered large disruptions due to absenteeism.”

        Yet it seems there were no widespread lockdowns. Certainly, I don’t even remember the 1968 pandemic and my wife, who was in her second year of nursing in the NHS, doesn’t remember it either, despite the fact she was on the proverbial “front line’.

        It leaves me wondering about whether our society’s attitude to risk has changed over the years and what role social media may have played in any change.

        82

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          “the Hong Kong flu of 1968 is estimated to have killed around 1 million worldwide, ”
          Over what time frame ?
          Do you know ?

          By contrast we have 250,000 people dead in just 4 months from this pandemic.

          14

          • #
            Jeffrey Dun

            Deaths peaked in December 1968 / January 1969, which is pretty typical for influenza in Europe and America. The flu emerged in HK in July 1968 and made its way through Asia to Europe and America.

            30

            • #
              Bill In Oz

              I see that you use the word “Estimated ‘ ?

              Curious word that.

              And you still have not said over what time frame….6 months, a year, 2 years etc ?

              14

              • #
                Jeffrey Dun

                As I mentioned above, the original HK virus emerged in July 1968 and is estimated to have killed 1 million people. The virus returned during the following 1969/1970 flu season, resulting in a second, deadlier wave of deaths.

                According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, all up, between 1 to 4 million people died over the two year period.

                https://www.britannica.com/event/Hong-Kong-flu-of-1968

                “Estimated” is not a curious word. Surely you are aware that flu deaths have to be estimated. Most jurisdictions in the world make a distinction between dying “of” and “with” the flu. In the case of the latter, death certificates do not refer to the flu as the cause of death.

                The Spanish Flu is estimated to have caused between 25 – 50 million deaths (that’s a big range).

                Not sure why you are attempting to diminish the severity of the HK flu Bill. In terms of lives lost it was significant.

                40

              • #
                Bill In Oz

                Thanks for your detailed reply.
                I wanted you to provide details to back up your claim.
                Not to diminish the severity of the Hong Kong Flu.

                But we are left with 2 outstanding issues
                1 : That the HK flu killed and estimated 1-4 million over two years..
                However the CCP virus has killed 250,000 in just over 4 months
                And is powering along
                Killing now in almost all countries on the planet.
                Even with the shut down in many places.

                2 : that this CCP virus does not infect people with a flu.
                It is as Jo keeps repeating, with lots of evidence,
                A new disease with very new characteristics
                That have never before been seen in persons infected with the flu.

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        bobl

        Come now Jo, you know Peer review has nothing to do with science, it’s a publishing process. If someone does the math themselves they are just as entitled to comment.

        20

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      UK-Weather Lass:

      “years of relentless pressure placed on frontline health resources due to continued Government negligence and intransigence” but the expenditure went up, so where did it go? Into the Administration? That lot supposed to prepare for future needs? I have no figures but I would be astounded if there were more Doctors + Nurses+ auxiliary workers than those Administrators ensconced in buildings far away from the action.
      Go on, get some figures (if you can) and prove me wrong.

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      • #
        UK-Weather Lass

        These are the PHE (Public Health England) influenza related death reports since 2012/13. All the figures have changed with time and so I provide the range covered. These are deaths recorded in England only.

        2012-13 10,764
        2013-14 no detected cases to 3107
        2014-15 16,415 to 28,330
        2015-16 3,291 to 14,357
        2016-17 12,000 to 18,009
        2017-18 15,969 to 26,408

        Note 2012 was the year a comprehensive change to the whole health service regime in England was changed, much of it against expert advice. The reason for the wide range is explained as ‘updating’ which may explain why no due attention was paid by politicians to the costly exercise of pandemic response held in 2016 details of which remain secret.

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        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Ummmm ?
          “I didn’t realise you were an epidemiologist – congratulations on your new qualification !”

          08

        • #
          TedM

          Not sure what that proves UKWL other than that there has been more covid19 related deaths in the last 21 dayss in the UK, than influenza related deaths in the worst 12 month period that you have shown in your comment.

          20

          • #
            UK-Weather Lass

            They are not intended to prove anything other than influenza mortality figures without massaging death certificates being higher than Covid-19 figures were before the controversial decision to count a Covid-19 death just because the individual had tested positive via a very unreliable test.

            From 2012 through 2019 (no certain figures available for last year yet but estimates around 20,000) there was no testing available and so it is always likely that Covid-19 deaths are going to be over rather than under estimated. The regime change in 2912/13 I mentioned before related to public health becoming a central government responsibility rather than a local government responsibility (i.e. more concerned with Whitehall than local communities). The statistics provided before this change were more comprehensive and seldom revised unless absolutely necessary perhaps because the linkages locally were better than a bureaucracy centrally ever can be.

            It’s also interesting that Nial Ferguson of Imperial College has resigned his government advisory role because he breached lockdown protocol. Does he or doesn’t he believe this virus is serious enough not to be worth the risk and has it, in his mind, been downsized to the common or garden ‘flu variety?

            From Johnson, down through his Cabinet and his advisors, there is not a lot to admire, respect, or feel good about, IMO.

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            • #
              JanEarth

              UkWL

              Neil not Nial

              10

            • #
              TedM

              “to count a Covid-19 death just because the individual had tested positive via a very unreliable test.”

              I think your biased interpretation is showing UKWL.

              10

    • #
      AndyG55

      “With better planning and investment…..”

      Which didn’t happen…. so you have to make it up.

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Hi Lass,

      In her response to you Jo has rightly pointed out the bad government management of the situation by “flying in unscreened carriers from all over the world” and then gone on to criticise your comment or misrepresent it.

      But time changes things as this more recent quote shows;

      “Australians are so lucky compared to almsot everywhere else where the job of getting rid of it is harder, or there were never the resources to fight it properly anyhow”.

      “Resources” can include PPE, hospital beds etc but also the developed organisational skill and capacity to be aware of possible health concerns and bring the organisation up to speed in anticipation. Many governments struggled.

      KK

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    Bright Red

    I see a lot in common with Jo’s “enthusiasm” for this Covid subject and that of climate alarm scientists for their subject.

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    • #

      If I wanted to be cheeky, I could say that I see a lot in common with commenters that won’t discuss covid data with those that won’t discuss climate data.

      Just poking… ;-)

      2311

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Data by itself is meaningless. Hence science, and its method.
        Discussions about data, without the framework of science are also meaningless

        412

        • #
          TdeF

          Green tick. That’s really meaningless.

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        • #
          AndyG55

          “Data by itself is meaningless”

          Yes, you always post meaningless data, if you ever post any at all.

          And you also have no inkling of the framework of science.

          No need to continually bring that to people’s attention.

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          Bulldust

          Is this Biden. Interested in truth, not facts, right?

          30

        • #
          sophocles

          RoTFL

          40

        • #
          peter

          Fitzy, you are lecturing people on this site about the scientific method? You are? Really??

          40

        • #
          TedM

          “Data by itself is meaningless. Hence science, and its method.
          Discussions about data, without the framework of science are also meaningless”

          Which of course is why Jo discusses the science when she presents the data.

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        • #
          bobl

          So Peter, you go to hospital they take your temperature as 41C your heart rate is 150 and your blood pressure is 180/120 the doctor should send you home because “Data is meaningless” ?

          What an inane statement, data, real world measurements are everything…

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        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Meaninglessness can also be ameliorated by data, thus the circle of politics is once again completed.

          00

      • #
        Bright Red

        Nothing wrong with being a bit cheeky, I love data. I spent a career looking at it. So with any data you need to be very very sceptical as to its accuracy and relevance. I was going to do a post on the blood oxygen sensor and its issues but the problem is that people believe a device with a digital display is accurate and do not appreciate how significantly the user and measurement conditions affect the results. As I see it there is a lot in common with Covid data and climate data and most of it is junk data.

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          Graeme No.3

          When you see someone using a digital device which is known to give the wrong figures, and still insisting that the figures are accurate….yes, seen that.

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  • #
    tonyb

    Real newspaper headline

    “Who knew? Britons would prefer to be on holiday indefinitely in their homes with their family on 80% of their salary without risk, rather than spending 2 hours a day on an expensive commute and buying expensive lunches”

    Their fixed the headline for you Jo, although I admit its not a punchy one!

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  • #
    Bill In Oz

    Covid 19 in the Philippines.
    The population of the Philippines is ~115 million, scattered over many hundreds of islands. Manila the capital city, is a huge sprawling city of 15 million people.

    OfficiallyAs my lady of Filipina with a large family there, I’ve been wondering how the disease was spreading there.
    At the moment just ~ 5000 tests are being done a day. And these tests are now being analysed at 23 COVID-19 testing laboratories nationwide. The government is hoping to increase that to 10,000 tests a day by the end of May…

    Officially the Philippines so far has 9,684 COVID-19 cases, including 1,408 recoveries and 637 deaths. However given the crowded conditions in the cities, and the lack of testing I suggest this is nowhere near the truth

    https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1270148/philippines-now-has-23-covid-19-testing-centers

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    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Some folks think they have it bad.
      In the Philippines the President did a lock down and a curfew both.
      The lock down shut down everything except medicals & hospitals, service stations and the police
      Almost all shops, banks ect were shut.
      The mega malls which is where the better off get their food were shut for 4 days week.
      Getting into a mall meant queueing up & being screened for temperature and for weapons.
      Masks were just about compulsory but not made compulsory officially because of shortages
      Local towns enforced local quarantines between towns & provinces with armed local militias helping out the police & army ..

      If one gets infected one had better be well off. The public hospitals are not that good but almost free.
      The private hospitals are good but expensive.

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        Bill In Oz

        I forgot to mention that the curfew is from 7.00 pm till 7 am.
        Stay at home !
        The president told his police, army and militia to shoot dead anyone breaking the curfew
        And not surrendering when challenged….
        Now that’s LOCK DOWN
        Folks complaining here don’t even know the meaning of a Lock down

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Shooting people is a bit excessive…

          Mind you, in some countries life is cheap, so if they lose a few no one cares, so why shoot them for breaking curfew? Makes no sense.

          Good reason not to live in the Phillipines….sounds like a tin pot dictatorship….

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          • #
            Bill In Oz

            An elected one.
            His term is up in 2022.
            Many people there will be happy when he leaves office.

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            • #
              GD

              Reminds me of Daniel Andrews and his police ganging up on a homeless woman sitting alone on a park bench.

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              • #
                yarpos

                quite incredible, 8 coppers and one homeless lady

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              • #
                robert rosicka

                Still think the best Victoriastan coppers versus an individual was the guy accused of running an MMA gym and along with some government suit and two car loads of cops just one guy held them off .
                Didn’t use violence he just bluffed them with the law and had them stumped , so much in fact they turned and left after 5 minutes of lecturing about the law from someone who wasn’t all that well spoken .
                But he certainly knew the law enough to convince the coppers they would be breaking the law if they entered his property.
                Search YouTube it’s amazing .

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          Graeme No.3

          Please Bill, don’t give Premier Andrews any ideas.

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          • #
            Bill In Oz

            Ummmm!
            Let’s hope he doesn’t read here Graeme !
            :-)

            PS My son over in Vic is happy at getting almost full pay to be on holiday.
            And now he and some friends are down at the beach at Mc Crae.

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      RickWill

      When the benefits of coconut oil were mentioned yesterday I thought that it might have a bearing on cases in Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia. PNG has the highest per capita consumption of coconut oil.

      I am not certain what “consumed” actually means. Is it food or other uses like cooking oil.

      Sunlight is probably the more important CV19 factor in these locations.

      The number of cases and death are mostly linked to limiting initial intake by border control then ensuring separation of people. If everyone was isolated from everyone else for two weeks, maybe three, then the virus would be wiped out.

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    TdeF

    Despite the outbreak in a meat works in Melbourne, everything is going to plan. The virus is being eliminated. And quickly.

    The sacrifices people made in WWII are unbelievable, but it’s not as if anyone had a choice. Like the blackouts. And some people insisted on sleeping above ground in their beds during the bombing.

    The idea of an invisible enemy is so unnerving. Bombs destroying buildings is logical. Like a neutron bomb though, people just dying of nothing is surreal. This is bio warfare. Selective.

    And the Chinese government is observing the effect its new virus is having on America. It’s a bit like engineers looking at the effects of cyanide in the showers. And you think there must be a reckoning. But I doubt it.

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      JanEarth

      Tdef

      The CCP are not interested in what is happening in the US…they are too busy trying to stop a revolution in their own country.

      Interesting thing I heard the other day…the CCP spends more money on spying on it’s citizens than it does on the military… and they spend ship loads on military.

      That whole rotten pack of cards might fall soon…all it needs is a little push.

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      • #
        Mike Jonas

        JanEarth – I so wish that you were right, but dictators tend to need a very big push, not a little one. Most die, while still in power, of natural very old age. Adolf Hitler took more than a little push. Stalin, Mao, Idi Amin, Mugabe, Maduro – none of these went with a little push. The reason why Xi Jinping spends so much on surveillance of the Chinese people is precisely to ensure that no little push even gets started.

        It takes years of school education plus years more at university to train a doctor or any other professional. But a dictator knows from day one exactly how to take and retain control.

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        • #
          Lucky

          Optimistic view
          General systems theory says flexible systems change all the time but remain the same in many respects over time,
          rigid systems do not change at all for years, but when they change, it is dramatic.

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    OriginalSteve

    We had an interesting spot about 3 weeks in, but once that adaption period was done, all good.

    Actually, I’m enjoying it. How often do yo get to spend so much time with family?

    Mind you, as an essential worker, our wings haven’t been clipped at all, so maybe that makes it more enjoyable.

    Daughter missing her horse riding though…and I officiate at equestrian events, so shall be rather happy once this damn thing is out of the way. Hoping for events to kick off soon.

    PS – Sod the social distancing….

    https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1276450/heathrow-airport-john-holland-kaye-travel-news-uk-coronavirus-lockdown-latest

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Clarification – I’m not anti-social distancing, but there comes a point whereby you either decide to destroy the economy ( and common ) sense by locking the whole population down for another 6 months to eradicate something that cant be fully eradicated, or you take a calculated risk armed with common sense and try and achieve a balance to get society back to normal.

      I have noticed a trend however by the Left in the USA ( and possibly here too ) to lengthen lock downs, specifically as an economic weapon basically against the middle class. ( FYI – Communism calls for eradicating the middle class ).

      We look forward to the days when such individuals are tried in court for such actions.

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    cedarhill

    The government actions are leading to the predictable political claims between Left and Right. The Left’s position is what one finds throughout nearly all media. The Right’s views are not, usually, ever presented except when the Left attacks them. A couple of Right oriented arguments/presentations may be interesting for those without time to do much surfing:

    Moving the goal posts, so to speak:

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/04/pro-lockdown-extremists-in-denial-about-why-we-did-it-in-the-first-place/

    This is a save-a-few-kill-millions-more analysis:

    https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2020/05/05/the-worldwide-lockdown-may-be-the-greatest-mistake-in-history-n2568180

    Which has an interesting quote:
    One of the thousands of unpaid garment workers protesting the lockdown in Bangladesh understands the situation better than almost any health official in the world: “We are starving. If we don’t have food in our stomach, what’s the use of observing this lockdown?” But concern for that Bangladeshi worker among the world’s elites seems nonexistent.

    Some surfing about worldwide food supply is likely misleading since the climate “debate” has really muddled the field along with the plethora of gloom-and-doom. Thus, one turns to the standby, economics. The base food supply is produced in each nation during at the end of the growing season. With world trade, it’s like a Fourier analysis due to northern and southern hemispheres. The vast majority of exported food is from the northern hemisphere and the most consumption is in the northern. Thus, the “reserves” must last at least until the next harvest. There rarely is a huge surplus at the start of a year’s harvest for the obvious reason (depressed prices discourage production and encourage consumption). Regardless, we’re from 3 to 5 months away from the end of the producing season in the northern hemisphere so we should already have that much “surplus”.

    But.
    Without swapping labor for food, even with “surplus” there will be starving. Depressed economic activity always has produced starving, often famines. Unless governments simply confiscate and distribute food “surplus”, there will be starving resulting from this years lock downs with the third world hammered.

    But, but,
    Confiscating, in whatever form, will dramatically ripple through the ag production given farmers will simply not produce their products. In the past, they’ve even dumped vast quantities of milk, etc., protesting low prices. And remember, ag isn’t a car which can be produced by turning back on the mines and crank up the “supply chain”. The lead time for ag, is measured in month, sometimes years in the case of livestock.

    Which brings one to the central issue of how to balance deaths and from which model? It would seem to me, the starting point would be determining if the models can even be trusted other than as a SWAG – especially the ones predicting disease outcomes. The ag models, are by their nature, somewhat reliable because, over the years, literally trillions of dollars have been wagered on them (look up commodity futures contracts).

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    MrGrimNasty

    Strange, more than a handful of family murders, murder/suicides, and the domestic abuse hotlines are ringing off the hook.

    I guess that don’t count when trying to run a PR campaign for the most reckless and incompetent decision ever made in the history of politics.

    [ Excellent sleuthing Andrew but you forgot the link !]AD

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    JanEarth

    I am enjoying the lock down…spent the weekend bingeing on Niall Fergusson talks and debates. We get to go out for walks in the nearby parks twice a day and it is so peaceful and quiet, quite extraordinary.

    Been riding my pushie a lot and me and the missus have been enjoying each others company. It’s been a hoot. Last night we watched Hopscotch with Walter Mathau and Glenda Jackson free on YouTube… do yourselves a favour and give it a gander. Forget about the bloody economy for awhile.

    My parents lived through the great depression and a war fought in their country.They woke up every morning and wondered whether they would still be alive at the end of the day. My mother witnessed people getting dragged out of their houses lined up against a wall and shot. My father was taken by the Germans and forced to work in a muntion factory in Germany. He was caught in massive bombing raids as a result and because he was at a priority target that happened a few times a week. He never knew if he would survive the next five minutes let alone make it to the end of the day.

    All we are asked is to stay at home as much as we can, basically sit on our arses and watch TV…in hidef. Wow what an imposition. Time to toughen up all you moaners.Get real.

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      JanEarth

      Moderators please delete the last sentence of my post #13

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      • #
        JanEarth

        Last 2 sentences #13…please delete

        The post is still in moderation so please edit it first

        Thanks

        04

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    • #
      yarpos

      Not sure who all the moaners are. There was a bit of a discussion and in regard to getting real it seemed fairly well grounded to me. It must be nice not to have to worry about the economy , others arent in that situation though and find it harder to just put their head in the sand.

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      • #
        JanEarth

        yarpos

        I was refering to Niall Ferguson not Neil Ferguson

        Niall Campbell Ferguson (/ˈniːl/; born 18 April 1964)[1] is a Scottish-born historian. He is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. Previously, he was a professor at Harvard University and New York University, visiting professor at New College of the Humanities and senior research fellow at Jesus College, Oxford.

        Ferguson writes and lectures on international history, economic and financial history and British and American imperialism.[2] He is known for his contrarian views and his defence of the British empire.[3] He once ironically called himself “a fully paid-up member of the neo-imperialist gang” following the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[4]

        Ferguson has been a contributing editor for Bloomberg Television[5] and a columnist for Newsweek.

        Ferguson has written and presented numerous television documentary series, including The Ascent of Money, which won an International Emmy award for Best Documentary in 2009.[6] In 2004, he was named as one of TIME magazine’s 100 most influential people in the world.[7]

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  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    Thanks Jo, for doing all the reading, summarizing, hosting and insights. Much appreciated.

    This is all very interesting.
    I look forward to published reports about 3 years from now that document:
    (a) the interactions regarding the subject of this post;
    (b) the science and solution of the virus;
    (c) learning (for future) what worked for control;
    (d) how all the economic things shake out; and
    (e) re-examination of deaths* & ** & ***;
    _ _ _
    *early deaths, at least in the USA, were apparently recorded as something else – now being looked into.

    **some deaths classified as virus when not, or only a trigger;

    ***Surprising deaths that show our individuality –
    . . . (why did an apparently healthy 20 year old die);

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  • #
    neil

    I live alone, I lost my job, I illegally visit my brother once a week. I illegally visit a friend once a week using the cover story that she is my partner if I get randomly pulled over for questioning by the Victorian SS. I by groceries for my mother once a week and have a glass of wine with her before I go home and spend the rest of the week alone with my cat.

    Lockdown sucks.

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    • #
      JanEarth

      Neill

      So sorry to hear of your situation. Our PM said during a press meeting today it is obvious that there is no intention of eradicating the virus. It looks like some relaxations are in the pipeline soon. He said that we have the capacity to deal with a spike in cases and I agree with his assessment.

      Considering your situation I would think that nothing you described is actually illegal. Even if it is on review I doubt you would cop a fine. I would continue with your current routine and try to stop worrying about it.

      Take care.

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    • #
      Mike Jonas

      neil – I feel for you. There must be a lot of people in awful situations like yours. I have argued against the heavy lockdowns, and I have been appalled at how the rules have been given greater weight than reality. For example, early on in the lockdown, police were seen moving on someone who was lying on the grass in a park well away from everyone else. If social distancing is what we want to achieve, shouldn’t we leave people to get on with it and only act against people who are endangering others?

      In Victoriastan, the authoritarianism seems to have taken over completely, to the severe detriment of most of the population, but it’s pretty bad in other states too. I do accept that the politicians are doing the very best they can in very difficult circumstances, so I’m reluctant to criticise them, but things could IMHO have been done a lot better if ordinary people had been recognised as the solution and had not been mistaken for the problem.

      I hope that you get out of your home prison soon, and get your job back, but I fear that too much lasting damage has been done for the situation to return quickly to normal.

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      yarpos

      I live in a regional area and have found lots of stories similar to yours , including a few of our own. That seems to be a growing trend despite the rulings of Herr Andrews. We have some friends that set up a table through a farm fence on a sunny day and had a long lunch with their neighbours.

      20

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      On Job seeker or Job Keeper..
      $1500 a fortnight
      And please stay at home..
      And that sucks ? ?

      16

  • #
    Raving

    Who knew? The stock market is buoyant and recovering. People really want to be optimistic about the future

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  • #
    JanEarth

    Raving

    Volatility is at an all time high. We are very likely in a bear market now. The only reason it bounced is because it is following the US and the only reason the US has risen is the Fed is pumping trillions into wall street to stop a historic crash. That may or may not work but even if they are successful the long term effects can not be forecast as this situation is truly unprecedented.

    We live in a time that will be written about for decades to come. Good luck in trying to predict anything at the moment.

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  • #
    Ossqss

    After 8 weeks of quarantine, I now choose option “B” also!

    ;-)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULuLrmRE_bQ

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      OriginalSteve

      I’ve loved being at home with my family, however after 8 weeks ….

      Very funny…. :-)

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  • #
    Raving

    Who knew? Hospitals and physicians are nearing bankruptcy as they are prevented from performing diagnostic and elective proceedures. This is occurring in both the US and UK. Not a simple function of public versus private healthcare. Maybe it will prove to be a windfall for healthcare insurers. Who would have imagined that!

    people claim that reopening is bottlenecked by tests. Seems to mecthat the lack of PPG is a much bigger problem. No idea why rhere isn’t a massive and immediate world wideramp up to make gowns masksand gloves. Thought it would be easy to modify production lines for these low tech items

    Seems the world is reopening too quickly in the face of a lack of protective equipment. Expect this will ensure further waves of infection.

    Need the PPG and more PSW and accomodation to better protect the elderly. That is surely a priority

    There is a report in the Washington Post claiming that many of the antibody tests give poor results and might soon be decertified. Minimal certification standards in the rush to get something indicative to market.

    (apologies for typos)

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    Richardw

    I think the argument is about the financial stresses and strains that are going to arise in a recession/depression. That hasn’t really hit yet.

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    Zigmaster

    It’s funny my wife complains since I became semi retired a few years ago I don’t do anything I sit around at home, watch TV, go out shopping do various chores around the house go for a run or use our gym at home, not very much. I spend literally hours a day watching and reading political material , I am a committed climate sceptic so continuously read everything there is on the topic. Corona virus has now added to the amount of material I read. As a former stockbroker I still like to dabble a little bit in the market.
    So when the restrictions came in and I complained in particular how draconian they were particularly here in Victoria my wife said “ what are you complaining about? For you life’s much the same.
    I replied “ you may be right but before it was my choice to live like that .” And that’s what I miss, the freedom of choice, having the government micromanaging my life is rather uncomfortable.The freedoms to choose how one lives whether that involves staying at home growing older or whether that involves sport, entertainment, travel, kids sport, a trip to the country,visiting friends family, going to a restaraunt,doing a jigsaw puzzle ( not because it’s a way to pass the time, but because you enjoy it).
    Even in this relatively short period of restrictions and despite mirroring the survey that you refer to that at home everything has been relatively harmonious I still resent the removal of many of my freedoms of choice
    especially when the person taking away those choices is being advised by a climate change alarmist and his assistant who clearly is politically left of the greens.

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      RickWill

      The main change to my daily routine is having wife at home every day instead of at tennis four days per week. Rather than coffee once in while she brews it up every day and I am now looking forward to my morning coffee.

      I started a project at the start of lockdown and that keeps me busy in my workshop each day. I could use a bit of help occasionally from friends or son that lives nearby but have managed to do it alone with a bit of thought.

      Our main concerns are for son and his family in the UK. They are working week-about as child minding is a full time effort for either of them – burning up annual leave while child minding so has a limited time frame.

      Both sons in Australia are in health care (MD, PT) requiring treating up to 30 different people per day. The MD will have exposure to CV19 patients in June. The PT will have to close his business if any staff contract CV19.

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      RickWill

      I was going to add that I have no issue with temporary loss of personal freedom. I can see it gives me an my family, all Australians, a quick path to low risk freedom of movement and association within our borders.

      I even have an inkling of why Dan Andrews does not want to talk about easing restrictions till after 11 May (Mother’s Day). It removes any obligation/desire for older kids to visit aged parents.

      I do see governments as generally intrusive but they have to strike a balance. I have a retired friend who has remained an aggressive driver in his old age and is constantly at the limit of his demerit points. Each time he gets another fine I thank him for contributing to the general revenue thereby reducing my State tax burden. I view speeding a few kph above posted limit as being inattentive. And excessive speed as dangerous. So governments need to regulate and control.

      Spain had a harsher lockdown than anywhere else and they have had an aggressive exponential decay of the virus. US remains a mess with mish-mash of controls in different locations.

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    OriginalSteve

    It has been interestung to watch fevelopments in Michigan. Simply put, peopke wantbto go backbto work but the hard left governor wants to keep the state licked down to 2021 despite no real risk medically.

    There was rumour of Soros coordinating all this.

    So if the people want thier freedoms and the hard left govt opposes them….roll on American Revolution 2…

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    Geoff Sherrington

    The wife just told me off for telling her about reports that say the lockdown is causing better family harmony. Geoff S

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      Mine just told me off for blinking too loudly .

      50

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        yarpos

        Mine just went to take her mother to the Drs for something routine. So I am in for it this afternoon. They dont get on, and I am the venting opportunity once home.

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        • #
          Annie

          And I can’t go and see my mother and siblings the other side of the world…
          My mother is in her late 90s,in a locked down care home and becoming frailer by the day :(
          This is one of the hard aspects of being a family divided by such distance.

          70

          • #
            el gordo

            As the borders maybe closed until they discover a vaccine, Zoom might become the norm.

            41

            • #
              bobl

              Zoom is Chinese, pick something else

              10

              • #
                Annie

                My sister can’t go in to the care home to reset my mother’s Skype; Mum doesn’t seem to manage it now and the broadband there is very poor in any case. I ‘phone to her mobile…

                10

            • #
              Annie

              Will there ever be a vaccine for this virus? I’m not aware that one for this type has ever been produced.
              We didn’t stop the world indefinitely for SARS, MERS, Swine ‘Flu, Asian ‘Flu, HIV,etc, etc.

              20

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    O/T, but not…..

    There appears to be a significant shift in the US, as while people have been prepared to do the right thing, some left wing govts appear to be happy to use excessive force.

    This Marine Vet challenges police in full riot gear confronting a peaceful protest in California, to do the right thing.

    Righteousness vs Hard-Left Bully-boy Tactic? You decide.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/watch-california-police-officers-anti-lockdown-protest-appear-stand-marine-vet-megaphone-challenges-integrity/

    https://youtu.be/DTqipTcwxyA

    “Protesters in several California cities, including San Francisco, Huntington Beach, and Sacramento rallied on Friday, May 1st, with huge protests against Democrat Governor Gavin Newsom’s hyper restrictive coronavirus stay-at-home order.
    ………..
    “Williams then directly challenged the officers’ integrity, “We always have in the military, we have ‘what’s a lawful order.’ And you’ve gotta check your nutsack when you’re given an order, and you’ve gotta say, ‘is this a lawful order or is this a bullsh*t order?’

    ““When something’s a bullsh*t order, and it doesn’t pass the sniff test,” Williams said, “that’s when you say, ‘Sergeant,’ that’s when you say, ‘Colonel,’ that’s when you say, ‘General,’ that’s when you say, ‘Governor, I’m not doing that. I didn’t sign up for that.”

    “Shortly after Williams challenged the officers to ‘stand down,’ the officers appeared to retreat and leave the location.

    71

  • #
    RickWill

    I have been corresponding with a friend in a small town in Missouri USA. His town has a population of 300k. They have had 98 cases; 18 still active and 7 deaths. The high death rate suggests there are quite a few undetected cases that could still be spreading.

    He is a high school teacher and he said he has got to know his students way better during the lock down. There is a lot more interaction with all the kids because each interact with others they would not normally interact with. They are learning a lot about each others’ own life. They just stay on line and chat on all manner of topics during lunch time.

    His best friend and his in-laws are all high risk for various reasons so he has great concern for them. He is really concerned about lock downs ending while the virus is still in the community. .

    60

  • #
    Bill In Oz

    SOUTH AUSTRALIA REPORT
    It is now 14 days since the last case of CCP virus was discovered here in SA.
    I theory the virus is now eliminated here in SA.
    And I think our political leaders here know the significance of that
    The other night we had our state premier & the Chief Medical officer
    Dancing at a concert in . an Adelaide Square
    Overlooked by an audience of 4-500
    Returned Aussies
    Who had just completed 14 days quarantine.
    in two CBD hotels.
    They were all on their hotel balconies watching and dancing.
    And now they have all been released and gone home.

    Step One of the release : Now all parks and gardens & playgrounds are all open.

    Meanwhile Victoria next door, has another 13 new cases this morning..
    After the 22 new cases yesterday.Looks like Vic Health Officers
    made a major boo boo a month ago
    With the infections at the Ceder Meat Processing plant in Brooklyn.
    Just like NSW health officers did with the Ruby Princess.
    It will be at least 4 weeks before anyone is allowed to travel freely from Victoria to SA.

    42

    • #
      JanEarth

      Bill

      Well it’s all good now hey. You can get out and about and not worry about masks or ripping your skin off your hands with sanitisers. You can go to the shopping centre with nary a care in the world. You have your miracle vitamin cursing through your veins so you should be invincible !

      I am catching up with family and friends today. Also going to get a few blood tests that I have put off. It’s going to be OK for the foreseeable future. Hopefully the virus isn’t hiding somewhere ready to pounce.

      40

  • #
    toorightmate

    Qld Government is to hold a summit on DV which has sky rocketed in the past 8 weeks.

    10

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Paul Murray showed some stats about three weeks ago and I can’t remember exactly but think it only included Victoriastan, stats were pretty much static with DV .
      I’m sure Queensland were having problems before the virus so would be interesting to see the official figures both before and after .

      21

  • #
    Tim

    Thanks Joanne.

    I appreciate your work and I love facts and stats.

    We can debate how the facts and stats are arrived at and that is ok and probably necessary, what is hard to tolerate is those that use emotion and abuse to shut down debate

    Please keep up the good work

    54

  • #
    MudCrab

    Are divorce lawyers classed as Essential?

    Is the family law industry even prepared? Do we have enough court rooms? Why is the government not passing legislation to allow young law students to fast track their qualifications? If we lift restrictions too soon a literal metaphoric tidal wave of divorce requests could cause our entire legal system to collapse.

    Stay Married! Save the Family Law System!

    51

  • #
    SteveS

    There is something not quite right with our understanding of covid19. What australia is seeing now doesn’t appear to have the same virility as what we have seen here in the US east coast and Europe. The spread can be explosive at times.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the 8 various strains have dramatically different characteristics with Europe and the US getting the more virulent strain. Australia just may be fortunate enough right now to have one of the less dangerous strains, Time will tell. While you attribute most of your “success” to aggressive quarrantine, it could be Europe and America got much more air passenger influx of the bad strain, at a bad time of year, and 2 wks ahead of Austalia’s first cases. Not that an early lockdown doesn’t have any positive effect, it does, but it’s possible harder days are ahead with winter and the ever present chance of more virulent strains making entry.
    It ain’t over till the Fat Lady Sings

    41

    • #
      JanEarth

      Steve S
      Well it’s unlikely to get in. No people will be allowed in Oz without strict quarantine for a very long time. So we are safe on that front.

      NT and SA appear to be virus free. Both will not be allowing interstate travellers for many months to come. If it raises it’s ugly head in SA again then things will look very grim, as for NT I seriously doubt the virus is lurking anywhere.

      Keep an eye on SA we are the bell weather state at this time.

      31

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        I think if we get it again
        It will be an infection brought in
        By returning travellers
        Or from someone coming here from Interstate
        EG Victoria or NSW.

        12

        • #
          JanEarth

          Bill

          Agreed. I checked and the borders are open. Police stops are there and you need to self quarantine for 14 days. Overseas visitors are also allowed with 14 days supervised quarantine.

          31

    • #
      RickWill

      There is something not quite right with our understanding of covid19. What australia is seeing now doesn’t appear to have the same virility as what we have seen here in the US east coast and Europe.

      Maybe your understanding is not quite right but mine is clear enough. The virus is highly contagious and deadly to about 1.5% of the population, biased toward older people and people not in the best physical shape for whatever reason.

      The number of cases and deaths reflects the effectiveness of the battle strategy. Closing borders and contact tracing were the most powerful weapons. Taiwan provides the best example. Recognised the risk in December 2019, closed borders to Chinese flights on 23 January and began tracing contacts of those testing CV19 positive. Taiwan now has 432 cases and 6 deaths. South Korea, Australia and New Zealand were slower to recognise the risk but closed borders early enough to prevent much community spread and then set up very effective contact tracing teams while limiting interpersonal contact.

      US is a shambles. Number of new daily cases static at around 25k so no reduction in rate of infection since the beginning of April. Late to recognise the risk; late in setting up international border controls; no internal border controls and mish-mash across states on interpersonal distancing.

      Spain was late in closing borders but had the most draconian lockdown. They had a very rapid reduction from peak daily cases of 8,000 now down to 1600. Will need monitoring to ensure it does not take off again as the restrictions are eased.

      A single worker in a meat processing factory in Australia was identified 3 weeks ago but the factory remained in operation. That factory now has 30 CV19 cases. So the CV19 virus is just as bad in Australia as anywhere else.

      If there is no system of identifying cases other than those presenting at hospitals then the death rate of known cases is around 40%.

      If there is a very effective system of contact tracing for all CV19 cases so they are ALL identified then the death rate is between 1.5% to 2.5%.

      Spain is in the middle of these two extremes at 14% death rate of reported cases. Us is at the higher end with 27% death rate; probably biased by New York.

      When you see very high death rate in a community of broad range in age and health then you know that many cases are not being detected in that community.

      63

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Steve we got a bundle of strains of the CCP virus.
      First from China direct until direct flights from Chine were halted.
      Then from Iran illustrated by the Aged care center in Western Sydney.
      A woman who was allowed to return from Iran without quarantine
      Worked 6 shift while having symptoms.
      Now there are 13-14 dead at that aged care center.
      And a lot of staff infected as well.
      Then we had people allowed to return to Oz from
      Italy, Thailand, Hong Kong, South Korea, France, the UK & the USA
      Without any screening or quarantine.
      And we had hundreds of people getting off cruise ships
      Infected with Corona 19 from we know not where.

      In short we got this virus from all over the planet.
      And probably all the strains around.
      So your comment does not have any factual basis.
      Finally the borders were shut completely.

      34

      • #
        SteveS

        Actually Bill, I didn’t present anything as facts…there are actually very few facts known about Corona. it would probably be more constructive if you read what I say, not what you think I mean to say.

        It’s commonly known different countries get infected with various strains…for you that may be the end of the story, for me, I’m still looking for good info.
        There are no hard, fast “facts” in any of this…what there is are different developments of analysis and info. These are avenues of interest worth pursuing to accumulate knowledge and tune your focus, again, not facts.

        On the “data” side, recent study shows the dominant strain in Australia (G614) is not the same as the dominant strain in the US (D614). Looks like one strain dominates more of the “heavily Hit” countries. Does that mean anything…don’t know, but again accumulation of knowledge matters.

        The distribution of the various strains can be found here.

        https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.29.069054v2.full.pdf+html

        You probably don’t need to review it Bill because you have all the facts, others might find it interesting

        21

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Jo, possibly of interest?

    New more infectious strain emerging?

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.29.069054v1

    “Spike mutation pipeline reveals the emergence of a more transmissible form of SARS-CoV-2

    “Summary

    “Mutations are considered in a broader phylogenetic context, geographically, and over time, to provide an early warning system to reveal mutations that may confer selective advantages in transmission or resistance to interventions. Each one is evaluated for evidence of positive selection, and the implications of the mutation are explored through structural modeling. The mutation Spike D614G is of urgent concern; it began spreading in Europe in early February, and when introduced to new regions it rapidly becomes the dominant form.

    “Also, we present evidence of recombination between locally circulating strains, indicative of multiple strain infections. These finding have important implications for SARS-CoV-2 transmission, pathogenesis and immune interventions.

    50

  • #
    dinn, rob

    here’s a very interesting family that you should meet

    synthetic bio, synthetic DNA, synthetic viruses, synthetic vaccines–the 4 syns

    https://balance10.blogspot.com/2020/05/synthetic-bio-synthetic-dna-synthetic.html

    10

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Kind of reminds me of the proto-molecule from the great sci-fi series “The Expanse”.

      What could possibly go wrong….

      30

      • #
        joseph

        Thanks for the introduction dinn, rob . . . . . very interesting indeed . . . . I had seen them off in the distance but good to spend some time with them closer to home . . . .
        ‘What could possibly go wrong . . . . . doesn’t seem to be an altogether unreasonable query . . .

        10

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          I thought I saw something move but its living camouflage was so good I lost it for a while.

          I saw it again when I put on my day-time anti-camouflage glasses.

          It was nothing to worry about.

          Just a Pangolin patrolling the edge of its territory while its family was in lock-down.

          31

  • #
    Ross

    You can make of what you like but it looks like some these testing kits and therefore the results are rubbish.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tanzania/tanzania-suspends-laboratory-head-after-president-questions-coronavirus-tests-idUSKBN22G295

    40

  • #
    TdeF

    It’s so disappointing with the outbreak at Cedar meats in Victoria, now at 50+ infections.

    The Health department knew about an infected worker but did not check his workplace, for whatever reason. Another Ruby Princess.

    Given that abattoirs are a major problem overseas, you think they might have checked, but let it spread. Now as the numbers would project, they are dealing with at least 50 cases. 1,2,4,8,16,32,64. That’s what 4 weeks does with doubling every 5 days.

    And it is the fear that you only get a hint and this was ignored. And the infected person’s source of infection was obviously at work and it was not traced.

    That’s just laziness.

    We have to eliminate every case and their workplace. Even at an abattoir, the spread at 5 days to double was slower than 2 days only because of social distancing. Now they have concerns for the Commonwealth inspectors who could be infected and spread it further. These are busy places.

    In the US, where the general incidence of Wuhan virus is a very high 0.3% , the incidence in Abattoirs is 10x at 3%. I would suggest staff at every abattoir in the country are checked now. Hospitality and food handling in general are a great concern for super spreaders.

    81

    • #
      Peter C

      It’s so disappointing with the outbreak at Cedar meats in Victoria, now at 50+ infections.
      The Health department knew about an infected worker but did not check his workplace, for whatever reason. Another Ruby Princess.

      It is disappointing. Our Health Departments have been so unprepared for this out break. We had a warning with SARS and we have a Disaster Planning Organisation apparently, but what do they actually plan for? Where were the stocks of PPE for instance? Virus testing can probably be done in many private Pathology laboratories but were they recruited early to provide virus testing?

      The sites for maximum surveillance seem to be:
      1. Cruise Ships
      2. Nursing Homes
      3. Hospitals
      4. Abattoirs
      5. Schools

      I think the Health Authorities have failed on every one of these.

      70

      • #
        Choroin

        Where were the stocks of PPE for instance?

        We’ve been too busy showering millions in bribes over ungrateful Pacific Island micronations that turn on us at every opportunity, dump on us at every climate junket, while courting China for the bigger future bribe.

        Sorry, I meant ‘Aid’.

        Here in Australia, we’ve got our priorities straight!

        40

    • #
      bobl

      The worry for me is that the virus is circulating in the animal population. Why is it that abattoirs are so prone?

      10

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        It’s not just the abattoirs. It’s the Aged care sector as well. And both have the same problems:
        1: Largely migrant workforces in the abattoirs with cultural and language issues.
        2: Largely casual workforces who get paid only for the hours worked. With NO sick pay. These migrant workers tend to ignore mild illness symptoms as if they do not work they have no pay to support themselves and their families. The ACTU has put out a statement tonight suggestion that all casual . employees be able to access a special paid COVID leave to stop this happening.

        00

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          PS : The whole cheap Cruise ship model is based on the same model.
          Cheap labor from developing countries employed on casual rates.
          And we now know how that winds up : Ruby Princess & Diamond Princess !

          00

  • #
    TdeF

    Also riding my bike through inner Melbourne with such empty road, the sight of the day was a church in Prahran with a giant neon red sign out the front. The message in Capital letters was simple GO HOME. Better than the bumper sticker, Jesus saves, but not on my salary.

    73

    • #
      Another Ian

      Best one I’ve seen was

      “If Dolly Parton was in farming she’d be flat busted too”

      50

      • #
        TdeF

        And on an old Land Cruiser, “The only true wilderness is between a Greenie’s ears”

        60

  • #
    stevem

    So it appears that our hospitals will be overwhelmed despite everybody being isolated. We’ve avoided flooding the intensive care wards only to flood the maternity wards for Christmas.

    82

    • #
      TdeF

      Ha! Had not thought of that. And what good news for everyone.

      30

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Did we have panic buying of condoms and the pill
      Back weeks ago when TP, rice & pasta ran short ?
      :-)

      30

      • #
        Choroin

        INB4 the great baby boom of 2020 becomes a demographic reality resulting in a future GDP boom.

        Too bad for Vic when Daniel Andrew’s ‘banned the b*nk’ :P

        I’m sure everyone listened to him.

        30

      • #
        TdeF

        I think some people misunderstood when doctors recommended prophylactics to prevent Wu Flu.

        00

  • #
    el gordo

    Oh my dog.

    ‘The coronavirus outbreak in France was not caused by cases imported from China, but from a locally circulating strain of unknown origin, according to a new study by French scientists at the Institut Pasteur in Paris.

    ‘Genetic analysis showed that the dominant types of the viral strains in France belonged to a clade – or group with a common ancestor – that did not come from China or Italy, the earliest hotspot in Europe.’

    SCMP

    22

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      How likely is this ?
      The first cases in France were at a ski lodge
      Where a British skier stayed after being in Singapore for a few days.

      I suspect that some french scientist is doing some grandstanding here

      41

      • #
        el gordo

        Exactly, he is making stuff up in defence of Beijing, but on the other hand the virus maybe mutating.

        ‘Australian scientists are responding with caution to an international study that has identified a new strain of COVID-19, which the study’s authors say has become dominant worldwide.’ Oz

        20

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Was not the headline: Coronavirus outbreak in France did not come directly from China, gene-tracing scientists say?

      Directly: di•rect•ly dĭ-rĕkt′lē, dī-►
      adv. In a direct line or manner; straight.
      adv. Without anyone or anything intervening.

      Conclusion: it still came from China, courtesy of the Chinese Communist Party and its running dog, the WHO. It just adopted a bit of dinn,rob’s living camouflage from #32.

      20

  • #
    Choroin

    Ahhh, good news at last.

    I’ll take it where it’s to be had.

    It’s always been the cases that the little things in life matter most, and it’s during times of crisis, when we have to rely on the compassion and tolerance of family, friends and community, that we truly recognize this basic truth.

    I remember in early 2019 when the bush fires in Tassie saw my area evacuated for over two weeks, and the great swelling of community solidarity.

    It was then that I could see some people recognizing this truth for the first time in a long while.

    Kiss your children, your spouse and your relatives frequently. Let them know you care and be tolerant of their quirks.

    30

    • #
      Choroin

      Okay, so maybe don’t kiss them all the time during a pandemic, lol.

      Careful air kisses while applying negative pressure to the mouth and not touching the lips.

      :P

      40

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Europe pins its post-covid economy recovery on committing green hari-kiri ….

    Think – sinking ship….

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/european-politicians-ceos-lawmakers-urge-green-coronavirus-recovery

    “* European leaders have called for green investment to restart growth after the coronavirus pandemic.

    “* EU leaders are due to meet next week to discuss the recovery plan, which would look to promote biodiversity and rebuild stronger economies.
    …….
    ““The transition to a climate-neutral economy, the protection of biodiversity and the transformation of agri-food systems have the potential to rapidly deliver jobs, growth … and to contribute to building more resilient societies.”

    40

  • #
    Boris

    I’m not surprised people by and large like their families, especially in a time of uncertainty/crisis. The family represents a known quantity and quality of stability.

    After all isn’t that why the Fabian International Socialists want to destroy the family, because it brings stability to parents, children and society. They are on record philosophically for replacing the nuclear family to usher in a brave new world.

    71

  • #
    TdeF

    There are always rent seekers in any crisis. Front page tomorrow on the Australian. Sydney University’s Brain and Mind Centre (really, is there such a thing?) predicts suicide rates in Australia will go up 50% and outstrip Corona Virus deaths by four times. Which means only that deaths from Wu Flu are almost zero.

    So we have nothing to fear but fear itself? A few weeks off with your family and it is suicide time? It should be a happy time, a family time, a relaxing time.

    Has Australia gone so balmy that fear of the virus and job loss perhaps is bigger than the danger from the virus? What a soft society?

    Still how many times does the Brain and Mind Centre get the front page with devastating news like this? We must fund them with more millions of public money for this outstanding prediction of imminent disaster. Just when we have nearly succeeded, someone decides the cure is worse than the disease? Send money.

    They can join the Climate Change mob as the Delingpole’s ‘profiteers of doom’.

    21

    • #
      TdeF

      And the Extinction Rebellion mob in Europe can hardly wait for the hot weather to get the virus off the front page and back on Green energy and more windmills and solar panels and a borderless world.

      40

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Hi TdeF,

      You have made two very clear points, one of which has my wholehearted agreement and the other, as previously mentioned, I find disturbing.

      Most obvious, for me, is the Sydney University’s Brain and Mind Centre.

      While I don’t have any disagreement with their assessment, I do have some real concerns about the necessity to have such a body that states what should be self evident to most of the taxpayers funding their undoubted lavish lifestyle.

      I agree, we don’t need such a group.

      My wariness about the need for such a group was given a prod a few days ago when listening to an interview on our national broadcaster while driving.

      The person interviewed was introduced as a PhD qualified speaker from an Ethics and Philosophy unit somewhere in Sydney.

      The interview led into an aspect of the Gay issue that has exercised Australian activists so much over the last few years. In short, the message was couched in philosophical terms and would have provided nothing in the way of real understanding for those listening. There was even a question about whether there might eventually be a cure for the problem. I was shocked that our national broadcaster would endorse this sort of trashy output. There is a very well defined background to this issue and it amazes me that it is still hidden from the general public and possibly doctors as well.

      Back to the main topic, I don’t think we need that group.

      I do agree that for many families caught in the right phase of life; ” It should be a happy time, a family time, a relaxing time.” For some that can be true.

      Then,
      “So we have nothing to fear but fear itself? A few weeks off with your family and it is suicide time?

      Maybe it is hard to relate to, but there are many hard working families for whom a one month shutdown means the destruction of all they have worked to build.

      Small businesses are not only “shut” but finished never to reopen. The detail is easy to fill in; heartbreak.

      Farmers are having trouble harvesting because of labour problems, and the fires of Just a few months ago have made many vulnerable.

      Sadly for many this isn’t a holiday, it’s excruciating pain.

      How can we fix this?

      KK

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    Not to be outdone in the expert scare mongering business, there’s famous scientist and medical expert Al Gore

    “Former Vice President Al Gore said Monday that the climate crisis and issues surrounding environmental injustice are linked with the coronavirus pandemic.

    “This climate crisis and the COVID-19 pandemic are linked in some ways,” Gore said on MSNBC. “The preconditions that raise the death rate from COVID-19, a great many of them, are accentuated, made worse by the fossil fuel pollution.”

    The people in 1918 did not know how lucky they were with WW1 and the Spanish Flu to have slightly lower CO2.

    40

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Come on TdeF
      We all know that Gore is full of smell bull.
      He just ca’t help excreting it all the time
      To try and get attention.
      Yes another rent seeker !

      20

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    PREDICTION: Nine months from the start of lockdown there will be a baby boom

    Remember you heard it first from the guy who didn’t need a statistical analysis to know that more opportunity would lead to dong more of what comes naturally.

    30

    • #
      NuThink

      Roy, someone somewhere put it a little differently that in 13 years and 9 months there will be a sudden spike in quaranTEENS.

      10

  • #
    NuThink

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/05/number-of-positive-covid-19-tests-from-melbourne-cedar-meats-outbreak-rises-to-45

    Forty-five people connected with Melbourne’s Cedar Meats Processing plant have now tested positive to Covid-19 after 11 new cases were confirmed on Tuesday.

    Although the state government has refused to identify the abattoir, Cedar Meats general manager Tony Kairouz confirmed his facility was the centre of the outbreak.

    According to a report on the industry website Sheepcentral.com, in the weeks before the outbreak the company had delivered 35 tonnes of mutton to the Chinese city of Wuhan, believed to be where the virus began.

    Advertisement
    The report said the meat delivery was backloaded onto a plane that was arriving from Wuhan to deliver medical supplies to Australia.

    He said the plant became aware of the outbreak on 27 April, after a worker was rushed to hospital several days earlier due to a workplace accident.

    A spokeswoman from Cedar Meats confirmed that this worker was at the centre of a virus scare at Sunshine hospital last month.

    He received emergency surgery on 23 April after severing his thumb at the Cedar Meatworks.

    What piqued my interest was that the Vic Government would not say which abattoir was involved. Why not? Did they have something to hide?

    20

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      It’s a very good question.
      The Victorian government has tried to hide all the details of where infection outbreaks have happened
      ‘In the interests of individuals privacy”
      But in reality to keep Victorians in the dark and uninformed.

      No wonder they are still struggling to eliminate this virus !
      A dopey strategy Dan !

      10