JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks


Advertising


Australian Speakers Agency



GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper



Archives

ABC suddenly notices the ‘heat island’ effect in cities

Skeptics mention the Urban Heat Island and its crickets from the ABC.

A green group mentions the Urban Heat Island effect and the ABC is happy to advertise:

Australian cities are increasingly becoming concrete jungles as trees and canopy coverage disappear, according to experts who warn this is contributing to an urban “heat island” effect.

“We know a tried and tested strategy is the introduction of more trees and green roofs in urban spaces, reducing surface temperatures by up to 40 per cent,” Griffith University urban and environmental planner Tony Matthews said.

40% of what, we might wonder, but the ABC doesn’t.

Could this huge heat effect possibly affect temperature records creating a systematic century scale bias inflating and creating fake hottest ever records. Nothing to see here, nevermind.

What radiates like an oven but doesn’t heat thermometers?

A national initiative — called Greener Spaces Better Places — brings together academic, government and industry groups to promote further greenery in our cities. Its research says black bitumen and dark roofs compound the already-hot days by creating a so-called heat island effect, absorbing heat and radiating it back like an oven.

Radiating like an oven? You mean like the carpark under the official Streaky Bay thermometer for 30 years? Which incompetent, careless national agency did that I wonder. And which incompetent careless national agency helped them hide that?

Who killed the trees?

The primary reason there are less trees:

The reasons for greenery loss were varied and complex, said RMIT associate professor in international planning, Marco Amati.

In some areas, greenery might be lost because houses were getting bigger and land plots were smaller, so there was less space for plants, he said.

Which political party pushes for high density, overcrowded, concrete cities? Who wants more immigration yet smaller city footprints?  Who hates the suburban backyard?

“So street by street we need a kind of campaign to make people aware of why greenery is important right there in their backyard.”

And if they have no backyard because there aren’t enough houses, or enough land for sale?

 One day the Bureau of Met may stop adjusting the old readings down….

Save the trees, sell the ABC.

China is warming fastest where the cities are, not where the models predicted.

We can see Urban Heat Islands from space.

 

 

h.t Dave

LATE NOTE: The ABC did an earlier story on the different temperatures of two Sydney Suburbs. A hidden UHI story. h/t Rod

Last summer, Galloway Street in North Parramatta experienced five days of temperatures above 40 degrees.

People on Daking Street — which is a short walk north — sweated through 13 days above 40 degrees.

It’s the hottest street in the City of Parramatta’s municipality.

The reason? Trees.

New research from Western Sydney University has revealed the temperatures at ground level could vary wildly — in some areas the difference was more than 10 degrees.

Despite that, the science is settled and we know the temperature of the entire nation to a tenth of a degree …

 

 

 

 

 

 

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.8/10 (84 votes cast)
ABC suddenly notices the 'heat island' effect in cities, 9.8 out of 10 based on 84 ratings

69 comments to ABC suddenly notices the ‘heat island’ effect in cities

  • #
    • #
      Gee aye

      Thatt is supportive in spirit I suppose but not much to do with the abc.

      Some claims made above about the abc not responding etc. any data on how often they have not responded?

      Any data on how many articles where they have previously disucussed UHI?

      The 40% comment in the article is rubbish but even then, might I suggest, that it could be blown out of the water by a serious response.

      221

      • #
        AndyG55

        Seem your response here is a load of rubbish.. empty actually.

        The fact is that 40% of BOM stations are unfit-for-purpose.

        130

      • #
        AndyG55

        And no, Ken didn’t cherry-pick, he looked at ALL sites used by BOM.

        Seems your comprehension issues run very deep.

        Nearly 50% are do not meet BOM standards, even of the ACORN sites.

        No Australian temperature data released by BOM is worth even a 1c coin !

        121

      • #
        el gordo

        In January 2018 the 7.30 Report gave 10 minutes to the Cool Streets Pilot Project, but apart from that the organisation has been mute.

        Noticed the early morning ABC anchor Joe O’Bryan hyping 20 degree temperatures in Antartica, but weather man Nate couldn’t be drawn and offered no opinion.

        30

        • #
          Graeme#4

          The 20 degree claim for Antartica was measured at Esparanza, a station on the northern tip of West Antarctica, that’s really not within the 66.6 degree latitude curve of Antarctica.. WUWT has a blog about it.

          20

      • #
        Brian

        Have you ever hot footed across sand at a beach to find blessed relief on the same sand under the shade of a tree Gee aye? 40% reduction seems pretty right to me.

        21

        • #

          Sorry Brian but Jo is completely correct, “40% of what?”. So what if shade cools- that is not support for a nonsense figure. Show me how this 40% works and then myself, Jo and this guy and this guy will be more the wiser

          20

      • #
        me@home

        The 40% claim is so stupid it can only be dismissed not replaced by another %. Both the Celsius and Fahrenheit temperature scales are relative rather than absolute, like Kelvin, and any talk in terms of changing temperature measured on either scale by any percentage is the depth of credulous, innumerate ignorance – but, sadly, par for the course for the ABC.

        50

        • #
          wert

          ‘“We know a tried and tested strategy is the introduction of more trees and green roofs in urban spaces, reducing surface temperatures by up to 40 per cent,” Griffith University urban and environmental planner Tony Matthews said.’

          This, my love, is when a random scientist gets quoted by a differently gifted science journalist, and the result is what we science deniers call not ‘just wrong’ but ‘not even wrong’.

          Climate Scepticism, please intersectionalize this concept of 40% reduced temperature, and nominate the author for a Pulizer.

          20

    • #

      Can’t be any worse than a certain world famous institute measuring CO2 levels from next to an active volcano.

      140

      • #
        R.B.

        I came across a 1995 conference paper on measuring CO2 levels using IR absorption. They get a 20-50 ppm precision. Keeling used a much longer tube of 40 cm but to see the correlation with SST you need resolution much better than 1ppm – globally let alone in the tube. He calibrated it using the volume change in a 5L vessel when cooled to condense the CO2. A change of 100ppm corresponds to 0.5 mL drop in volume.

        80

  • #
    a happy little debunker

    One of the key reasons the 1967 bushfires burned so much of Hobart was because of it’s ‘green canopy’ (that still represents 57% of the greater city)
    Increasing it to their preferred total of 74% is just insane & an open invitation to repeat the mistakes of the past.

    These numpties have no valid ideas!

    70

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Trees keep cities cool
      That is simple plain logic
      But never plant highly inflammable trees that burn easily
      That’s crazy !
      Plant fire retarding trees
      And lots of deciduous ones.

      60

      • #
        Ozwitch

        Not so much trees that are flammable such as eucalypts, but plant small shrubs and trees around the outsides of skyscrapers as they are doing in Singapore. Urban forests like this bring back both birds and bees and other insects, plus they look nice and aren’t a fire risk like avenues of eucalypts on the ground.

        40

  • #
    Jim in Newcastle

    What a great idea. Plant trees to keep our cities cool after we installed solar panels to save the planet?

    110

  • #
    ivan

    These high density cities are what is called for in the UN agenda 21 and 30. They call it slave camps sustainable cities but it is designed for better control of the p-eople.

    180

  • #
    pat

    and Reuters discovers a spot in the Pyrenees which has a snow deficit they can write about!

    12 Feb: Reuters: The ski resort with no snow contemplates a warmer future
    by Regis Duvignau, Antony Paone; writing by Christian Lowe
    LE MOURTIS, France (Reuters) – This year’s winter in France has, so far, been the mildest in more than a century, and that has had a direct impact on the ski resort of Le Mourtis, in the ***Pyrenees mountains…
    “There’s no snow,” said French holidaymaker Frederic Foltran…

    Weather has always fluctuated from year to year, but Robert said a clear pattern was emerging – of mild winters and less snow – that was in line with global warming.
    If the trend continues, ski resorts around 1,600 meters above sea level will be so warm they cannot even spray artificial snow on their pistes. It will melt.

    Some Pyrenees resorts are higher, had a decent snow covering this week, and were open for business. The Mourtis resort sits at 1,350 meters, putting it in the melt zone…
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-france-skiing/the-ski-resort-with-no-snow-contemplates-a-warmer-future-idUSKBN2061H4

    ***PICS/VIDEO: 23 Jan: InTheSnow: Epic Snowfalls in the Pyrenees
    By Patrick Thorne
    There have been some huge snowfalls in the Pyrenees mountains on France, Spain and Andorra.
    After a generally dry and sunny start to the year across most of Europe, forecasters had been predicting the storm that has hit the Pyrenees this week might bring up to a metre of snowfall, ***but in the event up to 1.8 metres (six feet) has been reported at some areas on the French side.

    Les Angles, pictured above and top with ski star Wadeck Gorak wading through the snow there, was one of the big winners reporting 1.2 metres (Four feet) of snow on lower slopes and 1.5 metres (Five feet) on higher slopes by midday yesterday with the snow still falling.
    Many ski areas in the region had closed ahead of the storm, which also brought strong winds, but conditions are now easing and resorts opening.
    ***VIDEO: 26s

    There has been heavy snowfall across the region with the biggest ski area, Grandvalaria in Andorra (Pas de la Casa and Soldeu) reporting 40cm falling in just 24 hours. Some Spanish areas have also had up to a metre of snowfall…
    https://www.inthesnow.com/epic-snowfalls-in-the-pyrenees/

    PICS/VIDEO: 10 Feb: InTheSnow: Huge Snowfalls in the Rockies
    By Patrick Thorne
    There have been some huge snowfalls in Colorado and Utah over the past four days.
    Accumulations of up to 1.5 metres (five feet) have been reported with Alta (pictured) and Snowbird in Utah big winners. Breckenridge and Loveland in Colorado also reported over 1.2 metre (four foot) powder accumulations. Most other resorts in the two states have had at least 50cm/20 inches of snowfall and many a lot more.

    The snowfall did cause some practical problems. The main I 70 road out from Denver to Colorado’s ski areas was temporarily blocked at one part due to an avalanche, as was the road up Little Cottonwood Canyon to Alta and snowbird in Utah. Loveland closed for a day at the start of the weekend due to the extreme weather there.
    ***VIDEO: 25s

    The snowfall has now eased off although temperatures are staying low.
    Elsewhere America’s Pacific Northwest region continues to see the heaviest snowfall in the world, as it has all year to date, with Alpental ski area posting a 5.1 metre (17 foot) base, the deepest in the world at present.
    https://www.inthesnow.com/huge-snowfalls-in-the-rockies/

    80

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      The MSM appear to have a credibility deficit….the snow however will come again….the MSM cred however…..

      110

    • #
      Roger Knights

      “This year’s winter in France has, so far, been the mildest in more than a century, and that has had a direct impact on the …”

      … cost of heating.

      60

    • #

      In 2010 the Pyrenees were blocked to walkers (including me) by blizzards close to the start of summer. I waited and finally crossed via an alternate route.

      The next year people were crossing via the main route in the heart of winter. Not that it was warm – quite the contrary – but it was dry.

      But we are supposed selectively to forget the nature of mountain weather. Just as we are supposed selectively to forget the whole drought-and-flooding-rain thing for Oz. Just as we are supposed to remember UHI for purposes of “town planning” (aka town obstruction) and then immediately forget UHI for purposes of climate politics.

      Sometimes we have to forget and remember at the very same time. It depends on what reeking gunk the media are serving up. There’s overpopulation threatening your retirement and not-enough-babies to fund your retirement! UHI is so bad we need more plane trees mangling the pavement and burning your eyes. But there is no UHI. I mean…there is UHI and there isn’t. You know what I mean!

      Just remember to forget…but don’t forget to remember!

      130

    • #
      ivan

      As someone living in the Pyrenees in an area that doesn’t generally get snow I have to say the report of milder winters is nothing but fake news – we had snow in the village for a time (before the flooding rain). the last time that happened was in 1998.

      They appear to be trying to find anything that will fit the agenda of the UN Church of Climatology.

      150

  • #
    pat

    with links:

    12 Feb: Wirepoints: Global warming was blamed for evaporating the Great Lakes, now blamed for high water levels in Chicago’s ‘climate emergency’ – Updated 2
    “What we are seeing in global warming is the evaporation of our Great Lakes.” That was Illinois Senator Dick Durbin in 2013 when Lake Michigan was at a record low. You can find plenty of claims to the same effect from the time. Nobel Prize winner Al Gore chimed in around then, too, saying climate change was driving Great Lakes levels down by causing evaporation.

    But that was then and this is now.

    What’s causing today’s record high levels? Climate change, naturally.
    So now, citing “catastrophic lakefront erosion” from high water, Chicago just declared a climate emergency. It’s radical, and is reproduced in full below…

    Lake Michigan water levels have bounced up and down drastically since at least 1920, and probably throughout history. The chart below is from a Wisconsin environmental and climate group called Southeastern Wisconsin Coastal Resilience (CHART)…READ ALL
    (21 MOCKING COMMENTS AT TIME OF POSTING)
    https://wirepoints.org/global-warming-is-evaporating-the-great-lakes-and-oh-a-climate-emergency-is-causing-record-high-levels-quicktake/

    110

  • #

    “RMIT Associate Professor in International Planning” gets my award for creepy-yet-vacuous job title of 2020. Congratulations Marco Amati. I’ll bet you’ve been thoroughly gang-reviewed and widely published. (Oh, I can just tell these things…)

    So now we know the scientific reason for all that “greenery loss” down Pitt Street!

    70

    • #
    • #
      Kalm Keith

      ” the scientific reason for all that “greenery loss” down Pitt Street!”

      Was that the alterations needed to install the “Green Trams”?

      Or was that on a parallel street that is also blocked so that cars have to sit with engines running for 15 minutes every 50 metres?

      Perhaps Central Sydney has a “Green Light Rail/Tram Congestion Induced Blockage” which is associated with the Serious Sydney UHI Effect.

      Who knows, but I’m sure that the mystery can be resolved with a quick four year PhD study by those at nearby universities.

      By the way, has anyone ever calculated the Carbon Footprint of a single PhD?

      Taking eight or nine years of constant attendance at places like the multi storey UTS where lifts run constantly, lifting a tonne of steel cage and wire rope up and down.

      And that’s before the load weight is added.
      Some of these PhD producing centres of excellence must have mammoth carbon footprints.

      Perhaps a “study” is in order; but hang on, isn’t that shooting yourself in the foot?

      KK

      120

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      I can’t compete in “vacuous title” category but while listening to the car radio last week I did hear a very important discussion by an academic who had completed a PhD in “Lingual Sensitivity”. Vacuous enough.

      It doesn’t need explaining, but just in case, it refers to the response by the human tongue to stimulation by various foods and drinks. Just imagine the research opportunities tasting escargot in the best restaurants in Paris. Don’t mention the drinks.

      The radio source was, of course, our ABCCCC.

      In the meantime the Ice Epidemic continues unremarked; social confusion and decay just doesn’t exist in our institutions of higher learning.

      KK

      130

  • #
    pat

    for others to pick apart:

    10 Feb: SMH: Coalition wilfully blind to economics of renewables
    By Matt Edwards
    (Dr Matt Edwards is a photovoltaics scientist at the University of NSW, a director of Coalition for Conservation, and the chief executive of BlueVolt, a company bringing solar to cities and the frontlines of the climate crisis)
    One of the greatest frustrations as a scientist is to see interpretations of data misrepresented by politicians. Unfortunately in Australia, much of this bluster has come from the far-right side of conservatives, part of our broad church, whose members have traditionally prided themselves on prudence and level-headedness.
    I am a solar photovoltaic scientist and engineer of more than 20 years’ experience and a director of Coalition for Conservation, a movement of grassroots conservative Coalition members who support greater action on climate change, and I have heard it all…

    Sadly, last Friday, Scott Morrison and Michael McCormack were at it again, warning that increased climate action would lead to “higher taxes and higher electricity prices” and implying it was the desire only of “those in the inner city”…

    Reducing emissions via a transition to renewables does not lead to higher taxes and electricity prices: in an updated study on current and future generation costs by the CSIRO and the Australian Energy Market Operator, wind, solar and storage technologies are by far the cheapest form of low-carbon options for Australia, and they are likely to dominate the global energy mix in the future.

    With all subsidies taken out, solar PV and wind wipe the floor with gas, coal and nuclear. Levelised cost of solar and wind is about $50 per megawatt hour, half that of gas and coal’s $100 per megawatt hour even without a carbon price. Nuclear is way off the money, priced anywhere between $250 and $330 per megawatt hour.
    Solar plus storage is now also cheaper than coal, and getting cheaper…

    A recent study by the Australian National University shows the potential of low-cost pumped hydro storage in Australia: it says there are 300 times more good-quality sites than required for 100 per cent renewables. The Snowy 2.0 pumped hydro scheme alone will allow vast quantities of renewables to be added to the grid…

    As a scientist, I need to better communicate the data, because politicians will shift their position only when the population, eyes open, demands it. I have seen progress at state level under the leadership of NSW Energy Minister Matt Kean, who is prepared to hear the scientists and has linked Australia’s bushfire crisis to climate change and worked hard to establish forward-thinking energy policies for NSW…

    We must fight the political expediency of appealing to a voter base spooked by fossil fuel scare campaigns and the denialists in the media, while avoiding getting rolled by rogue elements within the party, those whom Malcolm Turnbull labelled “terrorists” at our Climate Conversations event on Wednesday night, “willing to blow the joint up if they don’t get their way”…READ ON
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/coalition-wilfully-blind-to-economics-of-renewables-20200209-p53z4m.html

    61

  • #
    pat

    13 Feb: ForbesAdvocate: Obeids got $30m after alleged corrupt deal
    by Margaret Scheikowski
    The Obeid family was paid $30 million with a promise of another $30 million after an alleged rigged tender process for a coal mining exploration licence on their land, a judge has been told.
    Former NSW Labor ministers Ian Macdonald and Eddie Obeid, along with his son Moses Obeid, have pleaded not guilty to conspiring together over the granting of the licence at Mt Penny, in the Bylong Valley near Mudgee.
    Macdonald, 70, Obeid, 76, and his 50-year-old son are alleged to have plotted between September 2007 and January 2009 for the former – then mineral resources minister – to “wilfully misconduct” himself…

    Prosecutor Sophie Callan on Thursday continued the crown address in the NSW Supreme Court, outlining a series of complicated company deals associated with the tender process.
    The Obeids planned to be “silent partners” with whichever mining company won the bid to explore coal on their property, she said.
    Moses Obeid had met with an investment banker who came up with a list of companies, resulting in negotiations with Monaro Coal which was not told who the banker was representing.
    But when Monaro had financial problems, the Obeids began negotiations with another mining company, Cascade Coal, which put in a tender after the process was re-opened after the closing date…

    After Cascade was awarded the exploration licence, the Obeids were to receive $60 million for the sale of their quarter-share in the company.
    But eventually only half that amount was paid, she said.
    The judge-alone trial will resume on Monday.
    https://www.forbesadvocate.com.au/story/6630076/obeids-got-30m-after-alleged-corrupt-deal/

    40

  • #
    pat

    headline on ABC’s “Just In” page:

    Ausgrid staffing row erupts as thousands in Sydney remain without power
    By Jessica Kidd

    changed to:

    13 Feb: ABC: Ausgrid accused of understaffing by almost 10 per cent, amid storm repairs backlog
    By Jessica Kidd
    Staffing levels at Ausgrid have fallen below minimum legal levels, which is hindering the electricity supplier’s efforts to restore power across NSW, the industry’s union says.
    A leaked internal document, obtained by the ABC, shows Ausgrid’s total number of staff as of December 2019 was 3,238 — 10 per cent below the minimum legal requirement.

    Under the terms of its partial privatisation by the NSW Government in 2015, Ausgrid is legally required to maintain at least 3,570 full-time equivalent staff.
    Electrical Trades Union Secretary Justin Page said it was clear staffing levels were inadequate and were affecting Ausgrid’s ability to restore power supplies after last week’s storms.
    “Ausgrid does not have the resources to adequately restore power when these ***natural weather events occur,” he said…READ ON
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-13/ausgrid-accused-of-understaffing-amid-storm-cleanup/11962908

    50

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Let’s see; say 300 staff at say $100,000 nominal p.a.

      Is that $30 million “saved” every year over the last five years?

      But I’m sure it was all used to buy Carbon Offsets from that Cayman island company so everything is neutral.

      Or something.

      KK

      30

  • #
    Zigmaster

    Whenever I refer to the BOM I believe that lowering the past and / or raising the present is the exact opposite to what logic tells me should take place. The urban heat island effect needs to be adjusted out of the data to make proper comparisons with older data. The adjustment has to be a lowering of current temperatures to compensate for all the extra concrete. I have no doubt if the temperatures were properly adjusted for the impact of Urban heat island we would have experienced virtually no increase in temperatures in the last 100 years.

    100

    • #
      WXcycles

      The minimums have gone up though, because humidity also went up, while wind speeds went down, exacerbating night time UHI. The bigger problem is not absolute temperatures, it’s saturated humidity levels in the warmer period, because that’s what makes you feel ‘sticky’, plus reduces cooling from perspiration and this makes you uncomfortable, plus stops you from sleeping adequately.

      I personally could not give a toss about 0.5 C. But high humidity is the enemy, and a cheap to run dehumidifying airconditioner is the clear solution.

      Which humidity + UHI problem is being GREATLY exacerbated by extremely expensive and increasingly fragile unreliable electricity supplies … at night … when the sun ain’t shining (the work of stupid planet-’savior’ fundamentalist greenie misanthropes!).

      50

  • #

    LATE NOTE to Post: The ABC did an earlier story on the different temperatures of two Sydney Suburbs. A hidden UHI story. h/t Rod

    Last summer, Galloway Street in North Parramatta experienced five days of temperatures above 40 degrees.

    People on Daking Street — which is a short walk north — sweated through 13 days above 40 degrees.

    It’s the hottest street in the City of Parramatta’s municipality.

    The reason? Trees.

    New research from Western Sydney University has revealed the temperatures at ground level could vary wildly — in some areas the difference was more than 10 degrees.

    Despite that, the science is settled and we know the temperature of the entire nation to a tenth of a degree …

    140

    • #
      TdeF

      A tenth of a degree? World, not city, temperature records have been set by 0.004C. Now how do you get world temperatures to 0.001C.

      Then how do you get the world temperature in 1920? Very few countries measured the temperature? And the world surface is 75% water anyway.

      However there are proxies. Tree rings for example. And mathematicians like Michael Mann. If you want world temperatures for the last thousand years and even into the future, it looks like a very accurate hockeystick. This is called “The Science”. Fiction.

      90

      • #
        TdeF

        And on any day what is the temperature of the world anyway? You can create such a number despite night and day, latitude, storms, seasons by adding up numbers, but does this number have any meaning? It is something you can then plot and track, but is it anything more than representative? Is it predictable? And does 0.001C have any actual meaning even from one side of a room to another?

        So if the number goes up by 1C, does it mean that all temperatures, everywhere have gone up 1C? It is a fantasy number worshipped by the IPCC, a rough indicator at best. And while we are told the world has warmed by 1C, has it? And is that practically significant? And where?

        120

  • #
    Gerry, England

    You can never be absolutely certain that the lack of curiosity of the media is just because journalists are incompetent and thick or if it is a policy to ignore relevant things.

    70

  • #
    Nick Werner

    “We know a tried and tested strategy is the introduction of more trees and green roofs in urban spaces, reducing surface temperatures by up to 40 per cent,” Griffith University urban and environmental planner Tony Matthews said.

    40% of what, we might wonder, but the ABC doesn’t.

    That reduction must be based on the “percentigrade” scale that Mark Steyn mentioned a couple years ago.
    But if it’s a 40% reduction in Kelvin (around 110 degrees) that should provide some relief towards your future wildfire risk.

    20

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    ” … more trees and green roofs

    As used “green roofs” should, I think, be taken to mean roofs with vegetation — greenery.

    However, green plants require water — scarce and/or costly in parts of AU.
    Green plants are usually thought of as “sinks” for Carbon Dioxide, not for cooling that is caused by the evapotranspiration. Thus, the plants have to be of a “woody” type (long lived) or there is just a year’s delay in CO2 turnover. Woody plants and water produces mass (weight) — think of the law of gravity.
    In addition, green does not have the high albedo of white (“paint everything white”). A roof-top is better white than green if reducing UHI is the goal.

    90

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Reminded me of the old Black arab v White arab debate in the 70′s.
      Why do some arabs wear black robes when white robes would surely be cooler?

      Answer: courtesy of some intrepid scientists who stuck thermometers under the robes; white reflects more but doesn’t radiate as much. Black robes absorb more but radiate more. Result no difference to the temperature inside.

      Having said that, I know of 2 (large) tanks in western Sydney exposed to the sun: Both were painted white but the contents of one tank were consistently cooler than the other (0.5℃ but significant when you are dealing with 20+ tons of water based paint and want to put it into a tanker). The difference was because the cooler tank coating included insulating material (hollow ceramic beads).

      20

      • #
        WXcycles

        I would really question that finding and logic Graeme.

        Anyone who’s worked with a furnace will tell you that black is a very unwise color choice – a novice mistake. Yes black can radiate away its heat faster once it’s already hot, but it also heats up several times faster than white does, and thus at peak gets a lot hotter than the white material does. Which immediately matters when in a close exposure distance to ~1,300 C furnace. And the black garment will burst into flame much sooner than the white garment will. The black garment also transfers heat to your skin and body much faster than white does. Which makes using black clothing a non-starter for working in front of a furnace (and a very bad choice indeed for a fireman’s uniform). Dark colors also greatly decrease the time available until your body overheats. You can thermally fall unconscious fast in the humid tropics, and doing that in front of an open furnace would be game, set and match.

        John is ultimately correct, combine that with enough insulation and you don’t need to paint black to try to radiate heat away faster, because you just end up with a much hotter black building in a humid atmosphere which will make UHI effect even worse. It’s a false solution because it simply creates an even bigger UHI effect, that lasts longer.

        The white building will not get as hot to begin with, so cools sooner and will not energize near ground H2O with so much IR flux.

        30

  • #
    PeterS

    Too much focus on temperature trends. So what if the trend has been up for some 100+ years. There are several ways to explain it. For one we are still coming out of a massive ice age that occurred a long time ago. The real issue is mankind produce only some 4% of the world’s total CO2 component of the atmosphere, which is about 0.04%. Anyone who argues that mankind’s contribution going from 4% to say 6% is going to lead to some catastrophic global warming catastrophe is either lying or ignorant. They they claim we should aim for 0% emissions by say 2050. The total CO2 by then will still be around 0.04% if not higher for other reasons. The whole show is one big scam driven predominantly by bad scientists. Criminals are being put in prison for life for far less. Bernard Lawrence Madoff is a case in point.

    30

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    …and you thought the science was settled …

    Indian Ocean Dipole linked to global warming in new research by Australian scientists

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-13/indian-ocean-dipole-linked-to-global-warming-in-new-research/11943178

    Carbon (sic). Is there nothing it can’t do, and something only a tax can stop?

    60

    • #
      hillbilly33

      Hi Travis. Put your umbrella up and have a look at this ‘Related Story’ on the link you provided. Carbon (sic). Is sure very versatile and obviously multi-skilled!

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-16/positive-indian-ocean-dipole-bad-news-for-drought-crippled-areas/11120566

      10

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      The interesting thing about both these links is this :
      The BOM does not KNOW why the IOD happens !

      The IOD natural phenomenon was discovered in 1996-7
      We do know that a positive IOD leads to drought in Australia & fires in Australia !
      We do now that a negative IOD leads to lots of rain & maybe floods in Australia !
      And we know that IOD’s have been happening for thousands of years !

      But none of us ( including the BOM ) has any idea WHY they happen !

      Any ASSERTION that Global warming ’causes’ increased Positive IOD’s & droughts in Australia
      (And thus also increased floods in Eastern Africa -which have NOT happened by the way ! )
      Has to explain the basic natural mechanism which causes IOD’s .

      CONCLUSION ; The two authors of this research are incompetent dumbnuts !

      10

  • #
    Doubting Rich

    “…reducing surface temperatures by up to 40 per cent…”

    Yeah, so let us assume the temperature is 17°C (a little higher than the world average). This is 290K. 40% of 290 is 116K. So they are going to reduce the temperature by something like 116°C. That will be … chilly.

    There is literally no other way “40%” means anything in the context.

    30

  • #
    hillbilly33

    Climate Commission’s Prof Flim Flammery and his female counterpart Prof Lesley Hughes in 2012 on “urban island heat effect” and alleged “climate change” nasties they were predicting for Sydney Western Suburbs.

    https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/climate-commissioner-professor-tim-flannery-said-temperatures-on-rise-in-sydneys-west/news-story/beac56cbf342cf14b13ad6d3f3d4f09a?sv=15a061126135ea894883d9c5bf9f5b36

    10

  • #
    Zane

    I’d hate to think of the UHI effect of Sao Paulo in Brazil…

    20

  • #
    Dennisa

    On one of their non-political web pages, the UK Met Office acknowledges the UHI for London:

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/binaries/content/assets/metofficegovuk/pdf/weather/learn-about/uk-past-events/regional-climates/southern-england_-climate—met-office.pdf

    “…there is an urban heat-island effect associated with London, caused by the fabric of the buildings retaining heat from day time insolation.

    This is most conspicuous overnight in cold spells with light winds from late autumn to early spring, when temperatures in central London can be over 5 °C higher than in the outer suburbs and surrounding rural areas. The heat-island is also evident in summer heat-waves.”

    10

  • #
    Graeme Bird

    At least they get one thing right. If we take measures to increase plant transpiration, outside the tropics (loosely speaking), we can have a very strong air conditioning effect.

    10

  • #
    tom0mason

    As the average of all animal(and bird) temperatures tend to congregate around the 100 degree Fahrenheit (about 38 degrees Celsius)* then surely all these human UHIs just looks (temperature-wise) to the rest of nature like an over-abundance of animals?

    :-)

    *see https://www.goldennumber.net/body-temperatures/ and the references at the bottom of the page.

    00

  • #
    Meglort

    The science is settled.

    The Political Science, Social Science and Economic Science that is , or the pseudo-science disciplines not taught in the Science faculty.

    These are based on groupthink, emotion and conjecture and where evidence-based proof is not required for commercial exploitation. So an example…

    Despite having zero belief in AGW, my 10kW PV, financed at 3.18%, produces a net 380% ROI on cashflow alone, and has a current 100% capital depreciation in just 3 years with a 20 year lifespan.

    Greed is driving all of this and as a society many are paying for that, but some are making money and careers from the scam.

    This is the same in regards to the heat island effect, where even the socialist regime running the ACT has identified that strangely, dense urban areas with little vegetation and large concrete and steel heat sinks seem to be hotter on hot days.

    This amazing possibility was published in the Peoples Daily a.k.a The Canberra Times, quoting the regime.

    But the regime still clear fells new suburbs and mandates densely built architecture because they make more money from the developers.

    Subsequent to that, parks, trees and gardens reduce ratepayer density and have a perverse maintenance cost.

    00

  • #
    Aldabella

    Hey! are solar panels flammable like the Eucalyptus? With the large acre solar farms stripping landscapes they have to plant trees in the cities!

    00

Leave a Reply

  

  

  

You can use these HTML tags

<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>