JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Panic now: Drought breaking rains could raise emissions! (One drought was twice as good as all those renewables!)

This is an idea surrounded by layers of dumb. Like an onion, but not that smart.

Firstly, rejoice, nice big rain is falling, and Australians are Pretty Happy About That. But, oh no. Who knew, all along — the drought we thought was so bad was actually helping cool Australia. Golly, droughts cripple our agriculture industry and therefore reduce our agricultural emissions. It follows then (if you are crazy) that when the rain comes back that will raise our emissions.

Today is the first day I’ve seen the term “Drought-breaking” entertained…

But wait, there’s more. This rain is falling on Conservatives:

The Morrison government’s goal of lowering greenhouse gas emissions could be sunk in the short term if there is a break in the intense drought.’

Mike Foley, Sydney Morning Herald

Australia’s greenhouse gas emissions are likely to rise if there is a break in the intense drought in eastern Australia, sinking the Morrison government’s goal of lowering emissions in the short term.

Yes, and in a world not obsessed with political power games, when rain falls, green stuff grows, sucking down the CO2. Nevermind.

The agriculture sector did most of the heavy lifting in emissions reduction in the year ending May 2019, falling by 4.2 million tonnes to 67.4 million tonnes. It reduced the sector’s greenhouse contribution by 5.87 per cent, compared to the electricity sector’s 1.15 per cent reduction.

So all the billions we spent to be the World Leaders of Renewable Installation per capita produced a tiny 1.15% reduction in electricity emissions. That’s it?

“That big drop in agriculture was twice the emissions reduction that came from the record rollout of renewables. But it’s all built on the suffering of Australia’s farmers under drought,” Climate Council senior researcher Tim Baxter said.

And the emissions reduction from electricity was built on the suffering of electricity consumers.

Oh the dilemma, should we kill off our agriculture sector or our electricity supply?

“A break in the drought could push our emissions so they are again trending upwards,” Australian National University Climate Change Institute Professor Mark Howden said.

Professor Howden said while Australia’s emissions were “almost flatlining”, when the drought finally broke livestock emissions would likely rise by 4 million tonnes a year.

And therein lies the hard truth. All options are bad. All reductions are difficult.

And if the Sun controls our climate, all options are also a total waste of time.

Since CO2 affects the weather every day now, obviously, this is climate change rain.

No one seems to be saying that though.

Knowing Australian weather, a flood is just around the corner.

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Panic now: Drought breaking rains could raise emissions! (One drought was twice as good as all those renewables!), 9.8 out of 10 based on 95 ratings

373 comments to Panic now: Drought breaking rains could raise emissions! (One drought was twice as good as all those renewables!)

  • #
    tonyb

    Jo

    As promised I have reposted this from the back of another thread

    … …. …
    January 17, 2020 at 6:12 pm · Reply
    Jo

    I doubt you will see this buried at the back of the thread but I will post it here and try to repost it in a newer thread
    A few days ago we discussed the amount of debris lying around in the forest that could catch fire

    I came across this specifically about eucalyptus in California but with references to Australia

    https://baynature.org/article/burning-question-east-bay-hills-eucalyptus-flammable-compared/

    it seems that some 8 to ten tons of Debris occurs in each acre and dry leaves per pound has a btu equivalent of 10000 which is only marginally less than coal. It also confirms the extreme inflammability ofthe trees.

    In another report it indicted koalas for stripping eucalyptus trees sending debris to the ground and causing the trees to grow again strongly. This seems to have happened on kangaroo island where the remota variety and koalas seem to have taken over the landscapes with very sad results
    Tonyb

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    • #
      Bite Back

      Eucalyptus is the best fuel for a range/forest/whatever you call it fire that you could possibly have. You can’t even burn it in a fireplace without clogging the chimney. It’s solid grease and goes off like a bomb (almost).

      BB

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      • #
        hatband

        Some types are okay in a fireplace or stove, but they’ve got to have been fallen in the paddock for 90 years to be any good.

        38

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Well, Peter Fitzroy doesn’t agree with you.

          He was here just a little while back trying to tell us that forest fuel load cannot be 40 years old because something or other.

          10

      • #
        John McClure

        Eucalyptus is also a water hungry growth. It’s bad news on all fronts.

        JoNova,
        I highly recommend a post defining terms like Denier. Many comments in the last article use Denier to indicate Skeptics the term Denier should be repulsive to Skeptis!

        Teach your ABC the proper usage would go a long way to reason.

        141

        • #
          sophocles

          There are two major meanings for Denier.

          1. Denier n: LME [f deny v + -ER] a person who denies.

          2. Denier n: LME [(O)Fr.f L. DENARIUS]
          1. A French coin of little value (equal to one twelfth of a sou which
          was withdrawn from use in the 19th cent.; 2:(the type of) a very small sum.

          3. Orig, a unit of weight used for silk equal to 1/24th of an oz (1.181gram). Now
          a unit of fineness of yarn equal to the weight in grams of 9000m of it. M19.
          eg: Stockings woven of 4 denier are much finer and lighter weave than those of
          9 denier. They are sheerer. Just ask the ladies :-D

          Definitions from The Shorter Oxford Dictionary 4th ed 1993 but are not the complete
          definition given therein.

          A Climate Denier is supposedly one who denies whatever aspect of the
          Climate Religion the person throwing the insult is accusing the other of denying. As all
          sceptics I know do not deny Climate Variation in all it’s shapes and forms, accusing
          them of being a Climate Denier is an eggregious insult, empty and meaningless.

          How does that cover the field John? I’m sure others who feel strongly enough will no doubt
          add to it.

          20

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        There are over 900 species of Eucalyptus.
        Some are excellent for firewood of properly dried out.
        Examples Yellow Box, Red Box, Iron Bark, Red Gum.
        Lots are useless for firewood even when dry.
        But all of them will line the chimney with creosote
        if burned when still green.
        And that is bloody dangerous.
        All bush folk know never to burn green Eucalyptus wood in fire places or stoves.

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      • #
        Greebo

        Funny, but my experience in chimneys and flues is exactly the opposite. I have been burning messmate, red gum, mountain ash and many more foe about 50 years, in my parents home and my own, with no issue.. A couple of weeks of pine, however, and I have blocked flues and chimneys and serious risk of chimney fires. IMO no wood burns as cleanly or as warm as properly dried eucalypt, except for Mallee root.

        10

      • #
        truth

        And Councils force us to keep massive gum trees in our backyards-they’re dangerous on many counts.

        00

    • #

      Tony, there are also differences in gums and how they burn. Around here people avoid burning tallowood and turpentine in stoves, except maybe in mixes with other eucalypts. You can tell by the names the reason why. As to which species have the most flammable leaf litter, not too sure.

      I’ve heard koalas are a problem on peninsulars and islands or when too protected. Sadly, they are prone to an STD which blinds them, especially when stressed. Around here, far from being protected they’ve been massacred by wild dogs even though the bush is full of species they love, like tallowood. In drought they head for the dips where the gums have more moisture, which means they litter where fire is less likely, but in tight, artificial reserves I guess that may not be possible. Our forest here is huge and varied, so with better management and control of ferals koalas have a chance. But we need better management and control of ferals. Not such no-brainer these days.

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    • #
      Geoff

      There is obviously too much oxygen in our atmosphere. It causes the formation of CO2 by bushfires (and feeds human stupidity). We MUST reduce the oxygen venting to atmosphere otherwise we are doomed in 12 years. This can be done by cutting down forests world-wide and sequestering the timber deep underground.

      We can ONLY GET SMARTER by reducing the atmosphere’s oxygen. A paperbag simulating device can be tested by ALL millenials. Place paperbag over mouth and nose and breathe normally. When you feel faint you know its working. Your dumb neurons are being purged.

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      • #
        Latus Dextro

        OT and as an aside, I was watching one of a fascinating series of videos depicting the ‘Silent Service‘, the US submariners of WW2, particularly in the Pacific and off the coast of New Guinea in (1943/4) and in the Sea of Japan (1945). The sub in question was submerged and hiding from attack, and at the end of its tether, running short of battery power and air.
        The boat chief lit a ciggy, which astonishingly wouldn’t remain lit. In the end he gave up and tossed it. In and of itself, clearly it wasn’t an unusual event or act on board, at least the submariner wasn’t in the least bit surprised.

        As you said, just too much O2 kicking about on terra firma.

        20

    • #
      George4

      Interesting theory that Eucalypts evolved to promote fire so as to destroy their competitors

      whether the trees have simply evolved to survive fire, or whether they actually promote fire as a way to snuff out competitors. “It’s an amazing just-so story,” he says of the possibility: “Eucalypts evolved to burn their neighbors.”

      It’s clear that fire benefits the trees. “For most eucalypts, fire was not a destroyer but a liberator,” writes fire ecologist Stephen Pyne in his book Burning Bush. Many species of eucalyptus both tolerate fire, hiding from the flames behind thick bark, and depend on it to open their seed pods. Fire often even seems to have a rejuvenating effect on the trees. After a fire, many eucalypt species will sprout epicormic shoots along their entire trunks. In the event that a fire does destroy the aboveground parts of the tree, it can send up new shoots from lignotubers, nutrient-filled organs hidden among its roots.
      But it’s not clear whether the eucalypts simply evolved to weather fire, or whether they actually promote fires.

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      • #
        John

        Always important to not assign purposive outcomes in describing evolution.

        if eucalyptus evolved to weather fire then naturally they will evolve to promote fire too, as it gives them comparative evolutionary advantage over their rivals. evolutionary spiteful behaviour: take a hit so that your opponent takes an even bigger hit.

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        • #
          George4

          I thought it would be possible for a plant to evolve to survive fire but not to actually promote or increase the fire.
          I suppose a question is did the eucalypt leaf oil evolve not just to prevent insect attack but also to promote fire.
          An experiment could be to compare an area of eucalypt forest with an exactly equivalent area of non eucalypt forest and see if there are more natural fire ignitions and more intense hotter fires.

          10

          • #
            hatband

            It’s a reasonable argument, in my opinion.

            On the Mornington Peninsula, the Ti Tree is everywhere on the coast.

            Yet the original pre 1802 Coast was She Oak.

            That burns well, so it was used to fire up the Brick Kilns and Lime Pits.

            Pretty soon, Ti Tree was all that was left, and became dominant.

            It’s reasonable to believe that Eucalypts were a minor part of the Environment before the

            Hunter/Gatherers arrive and commenced burning everything in front of them East, South, and West.

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          • #
            John

            Agree a plant could evolve to withstand fire without promoting fire, but any such plant with a tendency/mutation to withstand fire and promote fire would be at a relative advantage, and would be selected for. It’s hard to imagine eucalypts tendency to incinerate the surrounding vegetation giving itself a clean slate isn’t an adaptation of sorts.

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            • #
              Environment Skeptic

              Wrong, all wrong. :)

              The species profile of Australia has changed in general. Not everywhere is the same. Rural areas no longer favour slow growing native grasses (lower fuel loads, slow growth). Fast growing grasses were introduced by farmers exactly because our native grasses will not grow as fast generally. Everything is practically genetically modified to create a massive fuel load ASAP (as soon as possible)

              In a continent of introduced fast growing grasses often especially for livestock grazing land that support higher livestock numbers, the grass needs to fast growing and perineal. Each year the grass turns brown after scant rain with such vigor, they prolifically displacing more and more original Australian inhabitants/natives.

              A fire is the perfect time to ascertain the quality of the regrowth in terms of diversity and also the perfect time to take note of invasive weeds taking over those areas early. Weeding after fire is vital and so is mapping out areas where it is needed after fire. Obviously land designated for agriculture has different needs.

              Now we are losing our species diversity and instead have fast growing everything. Human caused fuel load of a type that grows so fast, it would puzzle the wisest Koala and completely confuse a Wallaby.

              Most of the comments, feature fire related posts, both here and on every media platforms are so far off being the full two bob, printing more posts will not help.

              Notes and errata:
              Spotted Gum is not flammable.

              10

              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                Further notes and errata….
                Call me cynical…I can honestly say i am as annoyed with the non main stream media as i am with the main stream media recently, and all the instant overnight expert writers that have attained to being able to distinguish wet from dry.

                The problems our country and others face is huge in scope and urgency. It cannot be whittled down to simples by knee-jerk taking sides..

                If it can first be acknowledged the problem is complex, only then can we perhaps entertain getting somewhere.

                31

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Tony B
      Why put this comment here now DISREGARDING completely Jo’s post !
      Not polite or even fair !

      Jo, I love this sunburnt country !
      We know it’s droughts & floods.
      It’s on;y young idiots with no knowledge of our history & place
      Who write and print the rubbish in the SMH.
      Dopey dumblenuts !
      Who actually believe in fake fairy tales.

      50

      • #
        tonyb

        I put it here because I promised to do so on another thread. It continues a discussion we had earlier whereby she was going to consult a contact of hers about forest loads so I thought this
        Link I came across would be helpful.

        As shown in the second line of the poem drought and floods are two sides of the same coin

        10

  • #
    Bite Back

    Help me get this straight. Your government is happy when you suffer and unhappy when your suffering is relieved. Do I understand things correctly?

    Yes? Then fire the bastards.

    BB

    251

    • #
      PeterS

      Firing the bastards will only happen if enough people wake up and stop voting for the major parties. The way I see it so far is the mind rot has spread to both major parties albeit at different rates and intensity. It will have to take a strong leader of say the LNP to turn things around; a leader of Trump proportions. Unfortunately we do not have such a potential leader anywhere in site. That leaves only one option; vote for a party that proclaims the truth about climate change and how our continual push to reduce our emissions is doing much harm to our economy. That party can then hold the balance of power and force the new government to be to stop acting like a terrorist organisation hell bent on crashing our economy.

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      • #
        Dave

        If they work for the crown (which is the major pusher of the program with the UN) then they will comply, or be dissolved by the governor general as has happened many times before when the agenda is threatened.
        Voting is the trap.

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        • #
          Dave

          How am I wrong?

          52

          • #
            Dave

            Every four years I see people running around in this country going we’re going to change things, our teams going to win, our team our team this time this time. hen they either double down and make excuses for being totally shafted, or swing to the other teams colors. Both teams work for the central banks, the crown and the UN and associated stake holders.
            As long as I have been able to remember, I have watched NZ transformed and taken apart bit by bit by the system of power, not the party’s and their silly shallow slogans but by the treaties signed overseas behind closed doors without any input from anyone on the street.
            None are ever rolled back, or its two steps forward one step back.
            Every single political party in NZ has the words “sustainable” and “resilient” among others.
            You have to believe in voting.

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            • #
              Bite Back

              Once Donald Trump has served his second term see if you can get him to relocate and run for office.

              Well, nice dream but you do need someone who will rock all the boats and shake all the trees.

              150

            • #

              ‘War’is’Peace,’
              ‘Freedom’is’Slavery,’
              ‘Ignorance’ is ‘Strength,’

              ‘Sustainable’ means Back-to-the-Dark-Ages ‘Unreliable Renewables’
              ‘Productivity’ means ‘Zero Mining- Zero Manufacturing,’…
              all dialectical contradictions welcome in yr U.N. Orwellian Globalist Universe.

              50

        • #
          PeterS

          You might be right but the reality is we do have a democracy. The problem though is most voters abuse it by simply not using the brains to think before they vote. Instead they keep voting the same way expecting a different result. That’s a definition of insanity. How about voting for a new party? It might not make a difference but we will never know until we try. The only other alternative is to keep voting the same way until we crash and burn. Then we should wake up.

          91

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘How about voting for a new party?’

            Scott believes in miracles, but if he fails to refute the big lie then we should start a brand new party before the next election.

            90

            • #
              glen Michel

              Then again you have this chap McCormack who is leader of the Nationals saying that reducing road speeds will reduce emissions. Fool.

              90

              • #
                glen Michel

                Another “miracle” or maybe just the way things are.. that we have received 150mm of rain this month and 70mm of that in the last few days. Many areas have had more that have washed away paddocks and contributed blackwater to the rivers from recent fires. Strange to say, but in my neck of the woods we have had enough for the time being, but i’m optimistic about the season change and the incursion of moisture from the north.Here’s hoping that a -IOD kicks in this winter.

                40

              • #
                el gordo

                The head of the Nationals is a complete dill and should be replaced with Andrew Gee.

                40

              • #
                el gordo

                In the medium term there is also a strong possibility of an East Coast Low and the dams will fill up in a flash.

                81

              • #
                Greg in NZ

                Hey hey, keep yer crusty carbon hands off ‘our’ east coast low(s) there, El G. -

                T.C. Tino is lining up some goodness for our east coast reefs, points, sandbars, bommies early next week and I’ve got Mon/Tue/Wed off, hoot! Time to get wet…

                Enjoy your rain showers, cuzzies!

                20

            • #
              PeterS

              Well as you know that has already been tried; by Cory Bernardi. As you also know that failed miserably, not because he had bad policies – in fact they were as good as they could get in terms of energy policies. The voters simply didn’t like him or his policies. Better to support an existing party with some legs, such as ON. I doubt it will ever form government in it’s own right but it should could be a big thorn in the side of the party that wants to form government if neither major party wins enough seats in its own right. It’s really our last hope, little as it is.

              80

          • #
            WXcycles

            Peter we’ve had words in the past on politics and parties, and I see our views are converging somewhat. I’ve not voted for years due to disgust at the major party’s but i will vote in the next federal and state elections but only if there’s a One Nation candidate standing in my area. It’s the only credible option left to see off the many nonsense agendas can block so many corrupt and routinely thoroughly dishonest politicians.

            150

      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        Sorry red thumb error meant as a green . .
        GeoffW

        31

      • #
        Geoff

        The discounted retail price of electricity has increased 20% compound every year for ten years. The eastern seaboard economy has been destroyed. It is held up by money printing via rate drops to zero, immigration, regulation inflation, university expansion and land prices. Our economy would have collapsed (eg 1933) without these Federal government levers. It will collapse eventually as all options fail. The debt per household is huge. The only tools used by government, increase it. The RBA will move to negative rates and QE. A stone upon our debt graves. The bankers will be protected.

        Throughout this madness we will be told “How clever Australia is”, “How education improves everyone”, “How we are Climate Change Deniers” etc. All bull to keep the debt game going.

        Without a Leader we are doomed. Our system of government rewards mediocrity. Entire families gorging on the taxpayer purse. Their only purpose to enrich themselves at the expense of others while sating their consiences with “we are superior” because we are not going broke like all the business that supports us. If you go broke in business you must be a crook. If you live of businesses going broke that somehow makes you smarter than them.

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        • #
          Athelstan.

          Geoff, in your first paragraph, if not exactly it is a very close parallel here in Blighty, we don’t make anything anymore in England and HMG leading we drive on into bigger debt. Some ‘smart’ economists tell us, “we can borrow our way out of debt” – sure we can……………. and the other part to industrial suicide – mass immigration and a insane ambition to go carbon ‘neutral’ by asap, next Tuesday if poss!

          Yep, the UK is far nuttier and further down the deindustrial suicide road than is Aus’ – thank your lucky stars.

          40

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          We need more taxpayers to understand that.

          10

      • #
        Robdel

        Berrnardi tried that but failed, which is a pity.

        90

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        You have different form f government than what the United State has but I think a remark made by Benjamin Franklin may apply to both.

        Franklin was asked, “What kind of government have you given us?

        Franklin replied, “A republic, if you can keep it.”

        Change republic to democracy and I think Franklin’s reply still applies.

        If I may be so bold as to say that I see both Australia and America losing their way and their freedom and for the same reason. The people have lost sight of the fact that the government is not there to provide goodies, free or otherwise, nor is it there to tell them how to live their lives. It’s there to provide essential services the people cannot hope to provide for themselves to provide defense for the nation and to provide a fair and honest justice system.

        But we only keep that government if we watch it like a hawk looking for a mouse and keep it in line. We are both failing in that esponsibility.

        20

    • #

      The collective insanity of the Left is for all to see. Unfortunately, once infected, it becomes very difficult to cure, as the virus keeps transmuting into different forms and bringing in new hosts to infect once again.

      One day they may produce a science fact movie about this, akin to the ‘Invasion of the Body Snatchers’.

      90

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        The trouble with tyrants and those who cant be reasoned with, is appeasement never works.

        Heads they win, tail you lose….that sort of stuff.

        In this case, see above.

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        • #

          Indeed, the tyrants are the likes of the Greens, who are all infected and terminally insane, and then all those in positions of authority or power that benefit personally from perpetuating the climate catastrophe hoax.

          They in turn infect the ordinary people who start to battle with those who are immune to the virus. How many actual science fiction movies/stories have been produced about this very thing?

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          • #
            The Depraved and MOST Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

            This all sounds eerily like the “motto” of the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA):

            “We’re not happy, until you’re not happy.”

            100

          • #
            PeterS

            Good observation. I’ve noticed the same thing happening on myself when I was at CSIRO decades ago. It started to infect me so I left before I was completely taken over by the virus. I eventually was glad making such a bold move, which at first was troubling to the point of losing sleep for a few weeks. Goes to show how the virus is so powerful. Too many I’m afraid are not so fortunate in all walks of life in Australia, which is why we as a nation run the risk of crashing and burning.

            151

        • #
          hatband

          The trouble with tyrants and those who cant be reasoned with, is appeasement never works.

          So, let’s have a war where 25 million people are killed, and a Continent destroyed instead??

          That’ll learn them cowardly Appeasers, eh?

          214

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Dont be a goose…..

            Democracies function via rule of law and voting. The trouble we have currently, is, to be blunt, both parties are UN-centric and the State has a powerful propaganda machine operating, and the population have bought the lie temporarily.

            Word is slowly getting out, things will get more dystopian before they improve.

            Australians once riled up, are quite a force to behold, and it will happen….you cant keep people in the dark forever….

            141

            • #
              robert rosicka

              Seen a cartoon the other day that sums it up , it was a slaughter yard with two gates for the animals to choose from .
              One was marked “left” and the other “right” but both lead to the same place .

              150

            • #

              Note how the virus affects the host; zero rational thought once infected.

              90

            • #
              PeterS

              I have no doubt the people will wake up eventually. The issue though is when? It might happen soon in which case we avoid a bullet. Alternatively, they won’t wake up soon enough and the “enemy within” takes away all our freedoms, much like Hitler’s Germany. In that case we just have to hope someone else comes to fight a real war and give us our freedoms back. Good luck with that one in today’s chaotic geopolitical climate. Time will tell which way it will go. As I keep saying the only real way to short circuit the virtual war against us is to support say ON to give them hell when they need their support to form government. I doubt it will happen that way given the apathy spreading in our society but I welcome to be proven wrong at the next election or two.

              40

            • #
              hatband

              OriginalSteve said:

              Democracies function via rule of law and voting.

              Really?

              Then how would you say Democracy is functioning in , say, South Africa, Zimbabwe, or

              the Democratic Republic of The Congo, to give just 3 examples of Democracies?

              15

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                In SA, the ANC are basically communists, ( and Mandela was definately no angel, just to round out the other side of the argument) , democracy doesnt exist under communism. SA is a failed state.

                Zimbabwe is a marxist dictatorship & a failed state

                Youve picked weird “examples” of democracy.

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              • #

                Youve picked weird “examples” of democracy.

                For the affected mind, these countries are definitive examples of democracy.

                As with Antifa members, they see themselves as anti-fascist, yet demonstrate all the attributes of fascists.

                The more you see in today’s world of this odd behaviour, the more the idea of a virus rings true.

                42

        • #
  • #
    nb

    Negative world of the left:
    Catallaxy reports:
    ‘economic activity is detrimental to people’s health,” Nesson said.
    At http://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/01/17/cbs-struggling-to-find-any-bad-news-in-trumps-america/

    Now, from Jo reports:
    Mike Foley, Sydney Morning Herald: Australia’s greenhouse gas emissions are likely to rise if there is a break in the intense drought

    Next:
    ABC: Cancer rate drops during famine. Stalin praised as Christ-like figure.

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  • #
    Zigmaster

    I know that this article is in a left leaning paper which promotes the climate change alarmism with a passion,but at what stage do there readers actually read these type of commentaries and say “ This is nuts!!
    With conclusions like this no wonder their readers despair, and if the parents take this nonsense so seriously no wonder the kids suffer from anxiety. That’s without the kids getting more of the same at school just reinforcing their parents bleak message.
    Basically this article confirms what should be the real message is on climate change.
    If you are a believer in CO2 causing climate change no matter what we do we are stuffed. Anything we try to do will fail. Resistance is futile.
    THEREFORE WE SHOULD DO NOTHING
    We can’t be any worse off and at least we won’t have destroyed our economic viability in a vain attempt to do something.

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    • #
      John

      In fairness to their readers most of the comments slagged off the article. Only the most extreme zealots (eg Ross Mallalaba) supported the articles premise.

      As noted by several of us the Herald is beginning to blacklist skeptical commenters. I cannot get comments published any more. The extent of published negative comments on this article suggests even the unblacklisted cohort considered it a bridge too far.

      I also note smh dropped it from lead article to bottom of the page pretty quickly. I suspect they sensed the oveereach and backtracked.

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  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    Most places, if it had rained before, it will rain again – even after a long dry spell. Also, if a place has had a dry spell in the past and it is raining now, it will have a dry spell again – even after a long wet spell. Weather changes, climate changes, and man has very little to do with it except on a local short term bases.

    In the long run, man and what he does is irrelevant to the globe, weather, and climate – even if he acts more stupidly than a box of rocks. As our fearful-timid-malevolent leaders now exclaim we must do to save the earth which does not need saving. Further, we could not save it if our lives depended upon it. Maybe someday but not in the foreseeable future nor after the heat death of the universe.

    Hence, live as best you can, as free as you can, and do as little damage to others as possible. Then have no regrets when your time comes.

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  • #
    Lance

    That SMH writer is “weapons grade stupid”.

    Bacteria would intelligent in comparison.

    If his articles are what pass as informative writing, I’ve got a bridge to sell you in the Gobi Desert.

    180

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Bacteria also serves a purpose.

      90

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Heard interesting anecdote the other day. ( boy, doesn’t this sound familiar…)

        Senior guy ( 30+ years experience ) in one rural fire service ( forget which one ) was advising people where to put resources to fight fires.

        He said put resources over here because it will go up badly.

        However, the top brass put their faith in modelling said “no no no it wont”…

        End result – area burnt as predicted by senior guy, towns lost……

        Maybe the top brass blamed climate change….?

        30

        • #
          glen Michel

          Typical. My cousin had RFS people who wouldn’t get out of their trucks to engage in a backburn. Lots of newbie volunteers who looked like rabbits in a spotlight.A bit unfair I supppose, but they need to be led. Another mob turned up at the boundary fence next to NP, then their supervisor decided they were hungry and sent a delegation back into town for some burgers. Over 60kms away! This was too much for my cousin who told them they should eat the rations available or F..K OFF. National Parks are next to useless running this way and that, not achieving much. There are exceptions.

          50

  • #
    Bite Back

    But wait, there’s more. This rain is falling on Conservatives:

    Imagine that, the rain falls on whoever is under it. Did they expect it to discriminate?

    BB

    100

    • #
      RoHa

      “The rain it raineth on the just
      And also on the unjust fella;
      But chiefly on the just, because
      The unjust hath the just’s umbrella.”

      ― Charles Bowen

      (And not Hilaire Belloc, as I used to believe.)

      50

  • #
    PeterS

    It’s part of the game with the MSM now. They focus on bad news. So even good news is turned around to make it bad. I remember when the MSM’s main focus was exposing the truth. Now it’s hell bent on turning the truth into lies and lies into the truth. It’s all part of the move away from all common sense, logic and absolute truth, and towards relativism where everything is OK. Relativism is the doctrine that knowledge, truth, and morality exist in relation to culture, society, or historical context, and are not absolute. It’s what destroys civilisations.

    160

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Um…..we are getting a real court to rule on an inaginary problem….its like ruling on whether santa claus exists….

      https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-18/mark-mcveigh-is-taking-on-rest-super-and-has-the-world-watching/11876360

      “The case, which could set a worldwide legal precedent as to how pension funds manage climate-change-related financial risks, is thanks to a 24-year-old Brisbane-based council worker with an ecology degree.

      “Mark McVeigh can’t access his super money until 2055 but says climate change impacts are already materialising and, therefore, investors should be acting.

      “It is this belief that led to his case against $57 billion superannuation fund Retail Employees Superannuation Trust (REST).

      “Mr McVeigh has alleged that REST has failed to protect his retirement savings from the financial devastation that will flow from climate change.

      30

      • #
        AndyG55

        If they start investing in anything to do with “climate change™”,

        … it will almost certainly end in financial devastation…. for all the members.

        20

  • #
    H.B. Schmidt

    Knowing Australian weather, a flood is just around the corner.

    This is why I love reading Jo’s blog. When those floods inevitably do come then we’ll read about how it’s reducing sea level rise, but it will still be bad because greenies perpetually need something to feed their angst.

    60

  • #
    AndyG55

    ““A break in the drought could push our emissions so they are again trending upwards,””

    This is great news in both respects, then ! :-)

    250

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Rain + more CO2 = lots of food….excellent.

      Good for exports, good for food prices.

      I think the Leftist jackals must have been disappointed, as otherwise they could have artificially jacked food prices up for a long time, but with the rain…oh dear….

      Wouldn’t want to be on the left though when the general population figure it this little climate con, will be very ugly….

      151

      • #
        hatband

        .. will be very ugly…

        In what way would a reaction to your Strawman be ”very ugly”?

        You’re not Gaslighting Australians again, are you, by any chance?

        14

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          If the green left jackals are as smart as they believe they are, why do they keep losing elections?

          Answer: because the Australian people are smarter than they give us credit for.

          Gaslight that you twerp.

          61

        • #
          el gordo

          For the general reader, ‘gaslighting’ means manipulating people by psychological means into doubting their own sanity.

          60

          • #
            WXcycles

            Like the Greens do?

            80

            • #
              el gordo

              True, but also within the general population, especially among the chattering classes who control the media.

              30

          • #
            hatband

            el gordo said:

            For the general reader, ‘gaslighting’ means manipulating people by psychological means into doubting their own sanity.

            That’s a very narrow definition, not applicable to a Blog, where Gaslighting means

            undermining the credibility of a particular commenter in the eyes of others by the use of

            sly, snide, underhanded, and dishonest methods.

            Typical of the Anti Social Personality.

            See Cleckley, The Mask Of Sanity:http://www.cix.co.uk/~klockstone/sanity_1.pdf

            37

          • #
            jack

            el gordo your definition was correct.
            The term gaslighting has its Etymological root from the very interesting 1944 Ingrid Bergman movie, Gaslight.

            30

            • #
              el gordo

              Had a look at the trailer, then I found this close by.

              ‘Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity.’

              20

  • #

    Once you stop feeling obliged to participate, to buy in, it feels strange. Then you get hooked on the freedom.

    I’m listening to cricket and the bulletin comes on. I turn it off. Or the Rugby League finishes and it is time for the six o’clock news. I turn it off. I’m visiting Sydney and the family is watching ABC or Sky or Chanel Whatever. I leave the room without fuss.

    You see, deep down I used to know that a Mike Foley had no right to my time, that someone had invented “issues” to keep me engaged in nothing, that Mike Foley was the bloke with the job of engaging me in nothing. And even if I got past Mike Foley there are a thousand “issues” laid out for me by the Gavins and Angelas and Barrys and Cynthias, none of them with a right to my time. Deep down I knew. But to really know I had to TURN THEM OFF.

    Now when I walk past a TV and see a CNN host or an ABC news panel I feel nauseous, not tempted. When people ask me about Q&A and what Ray or Kyle or Jackie O said this morning I feel no urge either to criticise or justify. I may as well be on the moon.

    If anything happens, really happens, I can find out about it much better than if I’m tuned in to all the “coverage”. I can gather a few facts, and think some quiet thoughts, till I make what sense I can of events. All events are distorted by media. If someone has gone to the trouble of sobering up Diane Sawyer to interview witnesses and victims they are not just distorted, they are invented. So why give the media even a moment?

    Mike Foley is obviously the product of box-tick education. He has some numbers, probably all wrong, and they now = something. No context, no thinking…just my numbers = something. Science, doncha know.

    If the BoM can no longer even measure the rain that’s falling (and they can’t!) why should I get excited over whether their maps of Australia are red, green, yellow or purple today? I’ve just been through a bushfire and I know it was caused by drought caused by cold water somewhere and exacerbated by fuel build-up. Temps were average, other conditions were not average. How is it going to help me deal with my own fire to listen to repetitive reportage on climate or other fires and about celebrity donations and what “the world” thinks. I’ve been in the middle of it but I’ve been less whipped up than “the world”.

    So, Mike Foley, I’m the “sector” who’s “doing the heavy lifting” in media blather reduction. Instead of you, I have an OFF button.

    280

    • #
      Plain Jane

      I gave up engaging with the MSM over a decade ago. You dont loose much, except the headaches. No papers, no radio, no TV news, it makes my world less annoying. I believe that if you hear it on the MSM, its BS so why bother. A little news slips in around the edges via sites like this on the internet, so I know if anything actually important happens.

      170

      • #
        PeterS

        I too stopped a long time ago but recently I have returned to watching the news with a different attitude and purpose. I now like to watch my suspicions come true in real-time. It’s like watching a movie I watched before. I’ve studied history as well as the collective madness of crowds, and I can now clearly see how we are repeating the same mistakes as in the past. We are following the same trends and downfalls as past civilisations. It’s actually spooky. I’m now using the news to extrapolate what’s next using the past. It’s fascinating. At least I’ll be prepared and won’t be surprised what happens next.

        120

        • #
          The Depraved and MOST Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

          If I am recalling correctly, it was Ben Franklin who quipped, “If you do not read the newspaper, you’re uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you’re misinformed.”

          Correct attribution will be accepted with gracious gratitude.

          211

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Vlad:
            It wasn’t Ben Franklin nor Mark Twain.
            The original version might have been Thomas Jefferson who wrote “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. I will add, that the man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them”

            In 1955 Orville Hubbard who was the controversial mayor of Dearborn, Michigan was quoted in an article titled “How to Play Politics and Keep Out of Jail” published in “The Detroit Reporter”:
            Hubbard had an opinion on Detroit’s strike-bound newspapers. “I haven’t missed them myself,” he said. “It’s better to be uninformed than misinformed.
            In 1969 Hubbard was still the mayor of Dearborn when his words were reported in an Associated Press news story. Hubbard credited the statement to Thomas Jefferson.

            From that we can deduce that newspapers haven’t improved in the last 200 years.

            140

            • #
              The Depraved and MOST Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

              With all humility and gratitude for your extensive research, I thank you. It is such a precious quote, and unfortunately for all of us, all to accurate.

              Again, thanks, and blessings be upon you and yours.

              50

          • #
            hatband

            Up to date version:

            ”It’s all about the Benjamins, baby.”

            Attributed to Rep. Ilhan Omar.

            31

          • #
            Another Ian

            Vlad

            In the same spirit (with one possible local adaptation)

            “How does an Australian get mis-informed? By listening to/watching the ABC”

            “How does an Australian stay mis-informed? Keeps listening to/watching the ABC”

            80

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              Yep. Too true.

              Defund it. It’s the propaganda arm of the green left, nothing more, nothing less.

              60

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    This could be useful :-)

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-18/cultural-indigenous-burn-saves-home-in-bushfire-threat-area/11876972

    “Indigenous cultural burn a factor in helping save home from bushfire, as fire experts call for more investment

    “Gavin Brook fought to save his home from bushfires for weeks.

    “The long road to his house, in bushland west of the NSW town of Ulladulla, is testament to that.

    “It is lined with scorched, blackened bushland.

    “It is also lined with the charred remains of his neighbours’ properties and cars.

    “The devastation stretches for kilometres, but Mr Brook’s property sits in stark contrast to the scenes around it: his house is still standing.

    “”The fires burnt all around us,” he said.

    “”It was 360 degrees around our home.”

    “His brick bungalow, grassy yard and thriving garden look like a green oasis amongst a brown and burnt landscape.

    “The family had several close calls and they believed their home was at serious risk at least four times.

    “In two of those occasions, his wife and children fled to safer ground.

    “The area where the burn was conducted had fewer dead leaves on the ground, less invasive plants and much more bare open ground.

    “”Before the [cultural burn] we couldn’t walk through,” Mr Webster said.

    “”The vegetation was so thick, so we removed that leaf litter on the ground.

    “”That removes a lot of the fuel load, but it also opens up this country so native grass and seeds can grow.”

    “Mr Brook said the cultural burn was one of several factors that kept their home safe.

    “”We didn’t get some of those big southerly winds that other people did [and] the fire wasn’t as big by the time it reached us, thankfully,” he said.

    “”I do think the cultural burn did play a big role … especially on that side of our land.

    “”It gave me a lot of confidence.”

    “How do Indigenous fire practices actually work?

    “As Australia’s bushfire emergency rages on, discussion over fire authorities’ potential use of Indigenous and cultural fire practices has come under the spotlight. But what are these practices, where can they be implemented and how can they help?

    “The cultural burn was conducted on one section of the bush at the back of the property.

    “It meant the fuel load was cut down on two boundaries of the property — the most at-risk area because of the dense bush there.

    “A large fire break protected the other side and the road in front of the home acted as some protection on the other.

    “Noel Webster said the benefits of the cultural burn would be long-lasting and went beyond bushfire management.

    “Cultural burning, it basically resets the landscape,” he said.

    “It makes sick country healthy again.

    “We get rid of the invasive natives and weeds and [we] improve biodiversity and look after the animal habitat.”

    “He said cultural burning was different to bushfires or typical hazard-reduction burns.

    “”It’s more than just about reducing fuel load … it’s a reset for the whole landscape,” Mr Webster said.

    “”The flames [at this cultural burn] were less than knee-high, there were 40 people here, and people walk around bare-foot.

    “”If you can’t be there in bare feet the fire is too hot … if we burn too hot you ruin the soil and the seed banks in there.”

    “”We always need to protect the canopy, if we hurt the canopy we’re breaking our cultural lore.”

    “Former Victorian emergency management commissioner Craig Lapsley said he would like to see funding for a national cultural burning program.

    “But Mr Lapsley is quick to point out that cultural burning is just one technique for fire prevention — and nothing can truly stop bushfires.

    “The RFS declined to comment, however, volunteer firefighters who worked to contain the Currowan blaze told the ABC they would like to see the practice adopted widely.

    “The ABC understands there are no official plans to include the practice in formal hazard reduction activities.

    162

    • #
      AndyG55

      Cultural Burn.

      This is a brilliant idea for the way forward with fuel-load reduction.

      The leftie greenies could not possibly stop it without seeming total hypocrites.

      Welcome to country !!!

      How can we push the idea to parliament ?

      93

    • #
      hatband

      This Cultural Burning gobbledygook sounds like something conjured up by a conclave of spooks,

      neocons, eggheads, and trotskyites, plus a couple token indigenes, and

      it’s being pushed by Our ABC.

      Highly suspicious, particularly since no one ever heard of it until 5 minutes ago.

      714

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Ill translate it for you….

        “Cultural burning” = traditional ab*riginal land management by fire.

        124

        • #
          AndyG55

          And using that terminology could be a great plus for sensible fuel-reduction burns

          The green left couldn’t possibly complain without seeming like total hypocrites.

          160

          • #
            robert rosicka

            They call it cleaning country which is exactly what happens when done regularly.

            100

          • #
            hatband

            AndyG55 said:

            The green left couldn’t possibly complain without seeming like total hypocrites.

            But if the Green Left are telling lies about the cause of the Bushfires, why does their approval or acquiescence matter?

            54

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘ … why does their approval or acquiescence matter?’

              They have control of the media and set the agenda, which is why we need a Royal Commission on the bushfires, including in its terms of reference the unprecedented nature of the catastrophe.

              71

        • #
          hatband

          As I said upthread, it’s very convenient for The [slightly altered] Narrative that the Practice has only come to light in the last 5 minutes.

          36

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            That’s nonsense. And, you’re full of it.

            The regular burning of country has been documented over many decades. It is still carried out in parts of the country.

            Do your homework, and learn something.

            84

        • #
          Zane

          Just an excuse to roast some kangaroo chops for dinner :) .

          50

          • #
            Another Ian

            Um! You’d probably be better off with the backstrap

            22

            • #
              hatband

              Avoid Roo.

              It’s full of parasites and was killed in unhygienic conditions, as well as being

              deficient in nutrition.

              Stick to Beef, it’s got every beneficial Fat, Vitamin, and Mineral needed

              to sustain good health.

              32

      • #
        Dennis

        Example: In 1788 the bushland was easy to move through and there were many green grassy pastures, and since greenism interference in land management and State National Parks in accordance with UN Agenda 30 – Sustainability the once grasslands have become overgrown tangled difficult to navigate wildfire hazards.

        91

        • #
          hatband

          If the Bushland was very easy to get through, as you claim, why did it take 25 years

          to cross the Blue Mountains?

          Hint: Gammage is/was a Labor Mythmaker, not a reliable historian.

          43

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Because the early explorers tried to follow the rivers and creeks upstream, and kept ending at a waterfall. Blaxland, Lawson and Wentworth followed the ridges.

            72

            • #
              hatband

              But, but,but,… what about the indigenous burning practices that made the Bushland so easy to move through?
              Why did they spend 25 years walking to waterfalls when the easy to move through ridges were just waiting to be taken advantage of.

              31

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Because they believed in “nature” (very popular in the early nineteenth century) and, like today’s believers, kept butting their head against a stone wall.

                33

          • #
            AndyG55

            why did it take 25 years to cross the Blue Mountains?

            terrain !!

            73

            • #
              hatband

              Dennis at 8:53 am said that:

              the Bushland was easy to move through

              due to indigenous burning practices.

              So, it was easy to move through, but it took 25 years to get moving?

              22

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘So, it was easy to move through, but it took 25 years to get moving?’

                They used pack horses and decided to stay on top of the ridge because previous attempts further south found them facing steep cliffs. Blaxland, Lawson and Wentworth knew the terrain and succeeded.

                They encountered no bushfires, Gammage might be right. Do we know the name of the clan which lived in the Blue Mountains before Europeans arrived?
                If there was none, then any walkabout trail probably had only marginal benefits in a dry lightening conflagration.

                52

              • #
                el gordo

                There were three clans, so Gammage was correct, after 40,000 years firewood was harder to come by.

                https://bluemountainstoursydney.com.au/blog/aboriginal-history-in-the-blue-mountains/

                53

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                You are ignoring the effect of introduced diseases which would have decimated the local aboriginals.
                Besides, why would the local (surviving) aboriginals want to clear the bush?
                Especially when there were 2 crossing known (North and South) of the 3 explorers route?

                42

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘Especially when there were 2 crossing known (North and South) of the 3 explorers route?’

                Link?

                30

      • #
        glen Michel

        You’re right hatband. Most city people think that all descendants of the original inhabitants are imbued with the nous for fire control.Poppycock ! That art is dead down south largely. Up north tradition lives on in pragmatic ways. I’m over this nonsense about some people given a box of matches and told its “cultural”.

        70

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        A rare ABC article written up by local staff in the area
        About local people who used ‘Cultural burning’
        Last year.
        And as a result saved their home from being burned to the ground.
        In my experience the local staff at regional ABC offices are close to the bushfire reality
        It’s the dumnblenuts in Ultimo & Southbank who are the problem.

        30

    • #
      amortiser

      So they walked around the “cultural burn” with knee high flames in bare feet. Pull the other one.
      They want this process adopted in Victoria. How will that get passed the Workplace Health and Safety bureaucrats.

      51

      • #
        hatband

        Exactly right.

        Apart from Fair Work approved Rates of Pay, there’ll be Overtime, Living away from home allowances,

        Crib Rooms and Amenities mandated, no more than 4 hours worked without a break,

        the list is endless.

        This fact remains: No cause for the Bushfires could be ascertained other than Arson.

        State and Federal Governments don’t want to discuss this Inconvenient Fact, so their ABC rides to

        the rescue with the never previously sighted ”Cultural Burning”.

        23

        • #
          glen Michel

          Hey, we can get that Pascoe chap in on it. Dark Emu indeed!

          51

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Again. Nonsense from the ill fitting hat wearer.

          Do your home work.

          You come here with your bald assertions, unsubstantiated nonsense. Bald as a badger.

          43

      • #
        Fred Streeter

        I took it to mean that the fire had less than knee high flames, a cool burn which would not destroy the seed bank in the soil.

        Consequently, one could walk on the burnt ground in bare feet.

        10

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      A rare gem from the ABC
      Someone from the local area
      Who actually talked to other locals !
      Wow !
      The rot in the ABC is in Ultimo & South Bank !

      30

    • #
      George4

      “The flames [at this cultural burn] were less than knee-high”

      I can’t see how that would reduce fuel much in a real firestorm.

      Picture after the cultural burn

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-18/noel-webster-and-dan-morgan,-two-cultural-burners-1/11878648

      His house looked new and very fire and ember resistant – brick and steel roof – no exposed timber – compliant with current fire regs.

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-18/gavin-brooks-with-family-1/11878428

      But anyway I totally agree with clearing and cleaning up a buffer zone around the home by whatever means.

      40

      • #
        George4

        They repeated this story on the 7pm news.
        Ended up being a big ad for the “Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation” and how the government should give them more funding.
        Sorry I am skeptical about the money they are freely splashing around to appease the media.

        40

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    Luke Bryan – ‘Rain Is A Good Thing’ – - Lyrics
    Rain makes corn, corn makes whiskey
    Whiskey makes my baby, feel a little frisky
    Back roads are boggin’ up, my buddies pile up in my truck
    We hunt our hunnies down, we take ‘em into town
    Start washin’ all our worries down the drain
    Rain is a good thing

    51

  • #
    RickWill

    I predicted floods would follow the drought at the beginning of the month. How clever is that!

    140

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    After the unpredicted and catastrophic Queensland February floods which killed 600,000+ cattle and devastated native species occurred, there was a drop in greenhouse gas emissions of 0.4 per cent recorded in the March quarter of this year (2019), despite in the year to March, emissions rose 0.6 per cent on the previous year.

    >> Still the bushfires, and then the rain, followed.

    The cattle had nothing to do with that …

    “In 2006, the United Nations concluded that the livestock industry was a big contributor to [global warming].

    Mitloehner convinced the U.N. to recant its claim in 2010.”

    https://helenair.com/news/state-and-regional/prof-debunks-flatulence-as-major-cause-of-global-warming/article_1c6c9c5e-2dbb-11e2-9e51-0019bb2963f4.html

    70

    • #
      beowulf

      Who needs cows if the drought doesn’t break?

      We now have cockroach milk.

      Cockroach milk — “predicted to be a trend in 2020”, according to Metro.
      Like other alternative “milks” such as soy and almond, the secretion extracted from the guts of the shelled creature commonly associated with uncleanliness has been given “superfood” status, Metro claims.

      It is being hailed as an eco-friendly alternative to cow’s milk.

      https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/01/17/english-city-plans-wood-and-straw-eco-pod-accommodation/

      20

      • #
        hatband

        Yeah, that’s Green Capitalism [AKA Capitalism], all right.

        I’m looking forward to seeing an Agriculture Minister drinking a glass live on TV

        just to hang onto his job.

        30

      • #
        RoHa

        I didn’t want to know that.

        70

        • #
          WXcycles

          The Greenies are definitely some sick little puppies. We have superb high-quality pure abundant dairy overflowing in super markets at cheap prices and these stupid greenie scabs want to eat cockroach ‘juice’ and pretend it’s ‘milk’. or rather they want us to do it.

          Milk comes from mammals.It comes from nowhere else, it is physically impossible for insects to produce actual milk, as only mammals have mammary glands that make milk. What a disgusting pest these sick insane greenie twerps are.

          Obviously they do it for the attention, but seriously I’d like those mentally-disturbed clowns restricted to psyche wards again, 24/7 and chemically restrained so that their “best ideas” are never heard again in public by the rest of us, especially by the young.

          82

          • #
            hatband

            That supermarket milk isn’t any better than dishwater.

            Stick to cream and butter, if you want milk, let the farmer feed the skim to the pigs, and eat the pigs.

            07

  • #
    Another Ian

    O/T -ish

    Re that “Hottest ever”

    Unpanic!

    “Friday Funny – hottest decade evah! #showyourstipes @ed_hawkins”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/17/friday-funny-hottest-decade-evah-showyourstipes-ed_hawkins/

    40

    • #
      Another Ian

      In comments

      ” Jay Johnson
      January 17, 2020 at 10:46 am

      There is a mistake. The top graph is actually a graph of the climate “scientists’” receipts of grant money.

      50

  • #
    hatband

    Knowing Australian weather, a flood is just around the corner.

    Knowing Australian State Governments, a Flood caused by their refusal to allow Dam Gates to be

    opened until the point where the entire dam is about to collapse means floods are a 100% certainty.

    83

    • #
      el gordo

      They won’t make the same mistake again, I blame Flummery for the Brisbane floods because he said it would never rain again.

      ‘Two major highways are cut and ‘life-threatening’ flash flooding is hitting parts of southeast Queensland as a ‘very dangerous’ thunderstorm continues to cause havoc, already dumping up to 145mm of rain in just two hours.’

      Courier Mail

      90

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        They based an engineering descision on Flummerys words?

        Wow….

        50

      • #
        AndyG55

        Do you think they will come out and say the Qld rains are unprecedented, and hence “climate change™” ?

        100

        • #
          WXcycles

          Only if they can find an ABC reporter who can find a puddle deep enough to walk around on their knees while ‘reporting’ and pretending it’s chest deep.

          60

      • #
        hatband

        el gordo said:

        They won’t make the same mistake again, I blame Flummery for the Brisbane floods because he said it would never rain again.

        The Paddlepop Government made the exact same mistake again in 2019, causing massive flooding in

        Townsville..

        24

        • #
          el gordo

          The people need to be told the truth about climate, we can’t change it so its best to base policy on adaption. Which is what Morrison has finally realised, a way to remove green tape without upsetting the media too much.

          62

          • #
            hatband

            Scotty is talking about’Adaption” to Climate Change, not adaption to the climate, which

            we’ve obviously been doing since 1788 anyway.

            It’s just more Weasel Words from a Government that was badly spooked when the public found

            out that Arson was the cause of the Bushfires.

            34

            • #
              el gordo

              The PM is choosing his words carefully, trying to remain a small target.

              The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) defines adaptation as: ‘the process of adjustment to actual or expected climate and its effects.’

              So this is his way of clearing the decks of green slime after the Royal Commission.

              41

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              Arson was the cause of the Bushfires

              More rubbish.

              Arson was the cause of some bushfires.

              Telling porkies doesn’t help your credibility.

              Get it right or put a sock in it.

              42

        • #
          WXcycles

          The Paddlepop Government made the exact same mistake again in 2019, causing massive flooding in Townsville..

          That is not true.

          The two-stage flood gates at Ross River Dam are engineered to open automatically when the water behind the wall crosses the engineered thresholds. That’s what occurred, and it worked as designed.

          72

          • #
            hatband

            The Dam Operator requested permission from the Minister to open the Gates when it was

            obvious that there was an enormous amount of water in the Catchment [remember the 500,000

            dead cattle?].

            The Minister didn’t respond.

            In the absence of a response, the Dam operator was unable to respond to the looming

            crisis in a timely manner, and 3,000 homes ended up underwater.

            25

            • #
            • #
              Another Ian

              “[remember the 500,000

              dead cattle?].”

              All in the Ross River catchment?

              51

            • #
              AndyG55

              A significant number of those flooded houses were in known flood zone, too. !

              51

              • #
                WXcycles

                Yes, they were on the banks of the Ross River, and its flood plain. And it had not flooded like that since 1938.

                51

            • #
              WXcycles

              The records and graphs of the dam’s extreme rate of filling from about 17% up to 246%, is there for anyone to see. The dam operated automatically, exactly as it was designed to, and was engineered to operate. ~1,400 mm of rain fell on Townsville airport during that event. While rainfalls of over 2,000 mm fell within the catchment. It’s amazing it worked as well as it did, it prevented a much larger disaster from occurring. But I guess you just want to blame someone and rant.

              BTW, I was one of the people affected by that water release, and it’s clear no one had ANY control or capacity to prevent the flood from occurring.

              But you also want to conflate cattle drowned in flooding west of the Great Divide with what occurred in the Ross River catchment? Good grief man, that did not occur around Townsville, it was ~500 to 1000 km west if here! The flooded area was bigger than all of Texas. And I don’t have to remember cattle drowning, I was there while it occurred.

              51

          • #
            hatband

            …when the water behind the wall crosses the engineered thresholds.

            Translated into English, that means that the Gates open automatically at a point where any

            more water behind that Dam Wall would place it at risk of catastrophic collapse.

            Correct?

            15

            • #
              WXcycles

              Yes, it was a newly installed automatic flood gate, with two stages, one that opens to slow the rate of filling in a serious tropical rain event short of major inundation, and another emergency release the level if the first level proves to be in sufficient, in an extreme case, which this was, and which it did, and performed perfectly.

              And the first stage opened probably a week before the second stage opened to prevent wall over-topping and dam wall collapse.

              It did exactly what it was supposed to do, and no earlier opening of the first stage would have made any difference, as the water kept rising for 2 weeks.

              Did I mention it’s an automatic flood gate? There is no decision to make, it opens when the water is too high, it is designed to not be able to prevent it from opening in an emergency. The dam flood gate worked, it saved hundreds, if not thousands of lives.

              51

              • #
                el gordo

                Thanks WX, that clears that up.

                31

              • #
                hatband

                He hasn’t cleared it up at all.

                Of course the dam has got to have some emergency mechanism, otherwise water keeps

                building up behind the Dam Wall until the whole Wall is pushed over and washes

                Townsville away

                Water should have been released when the Catchment was filling with water, weeks
                earlier.

                The State Government didn’t respond to the request for permission to manually

                open the gates, so water was allowed to build up until the Emergency Mechanism

                kicked in. This charade has been repeating in Qld since 2006, when Beattie

                removed control and operation of Dams, Weirs, and Impoundments from Local

                Authorities.

                The exact same thing happened at Wivenhoe Dam in 2011, according to a recent

                Sydney Court Decision.

                03

              • #
                WXcycles

                There’s always some twit with 20-20 hindsight who wants to second-guess reality, that was lived.

                The water rose from ~68% to ~138% overnight on the second day of rainfall, I monitored it very closely because I already knew we were in for an unusually low moving and protracted monsoon rain event. And it would have made no difference if the dam gate was opened then, or later, as flood-gate was designed for exactly that sort of natural event. It triggered automatically at the expected point, and spilled at the level it was supposed to spill water at to prevent a suburban flood. Those decisions had already been made during its design. It spilled for most of a week before the final emergency release.

                There was nothing any minister could have done to change the outcome, the dam was about to do that all by itself. The rain event was much longer and heavier then anyone could have reasonably foreseen or expected.

                BOM was also several days late in recognizing the danger and the scale of the coming enormous flood. The people who engineered the dam’s flood release system actually got it right.

                The dam did what was needed in an extreme event such as that one. The local council new the dam was designed for this sort of major event, and the first level of release occurred at around 175% of maximum rated capacity (much earlier than the final emergency release). The dam’s second gate opened at double the spill rate of the first stage when the dam rose very rapidly during the final day, up to 250% of maximum rated capacity. And this despite the first gate being opened and spilling for many days prior. The rate and span of the rainfall was much greater than the first spill gate stage could cope with. It didn’t matter when it opened, it could not prevent the damn rising. It was not supposed to either, that first stage spill gate release rate was designed to allow it to drain rapidly at a rate that would not cause a suburban flood event.

                It spilled at half the rate of the emergency release level. But even this was not enough to drain the rainfall input during the final week of the heavy rain. The level kept rising anyway, and especially during the final 24 hours, the water level rose at an incredibly alarming 6% (and up to to 9%) or maximum capacity rise per hour, in the late afternoon prior to the emergency release, at about 8:30 PM.

                Once the second gate opened it doubled the first gate’s flow capacity and the dam’s level finally stopped rising, and slowly began to fall during the next hour. It fell at about 4% per hour after that. This prevented over-topping and wall failure.

                The non-emergency level flood gate had prevented such a suburban flood for most of the past two weeks, and the dam’s emergency flood level finally tripped during the last night of that 2 weeks of heavy rain. The rain event was finally over the next morning.

                Nobody knew that was going to happen in advance when that rain event began, after the 27th of January 2019. ECMWF showed ~1,800 mm could fall in the catchment and just north of Townsville during the next 9 days but even I did not believe that would actually occur. It did, and the event was longer than that 9 day forecast. Some places got around the 3,000 mm mark before it was all over.

                It ended on about the 13th of Feb. And no one would have thought the dam’s capacity would get up to ~249% of max capacity. If that heavy rain had ended just 24 hours earlier the emergency flood-gates would not have been tripped and this discussion would not even be occurring.

                But the final days of heavy rain were way too much for the first stage to cope with, the level shot up at a horrifying rate over that final 40% of max capacity in literally about 6 hours. Opening the gate’s first-stage earlier would have made no difference to the outcome during that night, we were way past that having been able to make a difference days before.

                That dam gate design almost but not quite managed to prevent a major suburban flood for all of that event’s span. It only ceased to do so during the final few hours of the heaviest rainfalls when nothing done earlier could have prevented the major flood from occurring. There was a strong sense of dread in Townsville late on that final afternoon, everyone knew the dam was getting close to failure.

                But in retrospect the dam’s flood gate operation was nearly perfect, IMO.

                It was designed to wait and hold the worst of the water back until the final hours, when it could not hold it back any longer and structurally survive. It had already spared us from major flooding for almost two weeks. I was relieved it worked as well as it did. The engineers and hydrologists who designed it had spared us for weeks, and had almost completely spared us from the final major flood. They certainly saved much of Townsville from far worse that night.

                It’s nonsense to imagine a call to a Minister about an earlier release could have achieved anything, because the dam’s level was still less than ~175% at that point, still below the engineered first-stage flood gate triggering level (where the dam had been at several times prior, btw). And there was at that point no danger to the dam’s structure, it was apparently engineered for about 300 or max rated capacity before wall over-topping would occur.

                And when the emergency gates opened, at 250% or maximum capacity, that doubled the spill rate of the first stage, and the dam’s level immediately stopped rising, and began to fall for the first time during the next 2 hours.

                That’s exactly what you want from a flood mitigation emergency spill. It worked and the design did the best that could be done to hold off that flood for as long as possible. And it very nearly succeeded in there being no major flood in the city at all.

                As far as I’m concerned nobody mismanaged a thing. No one could have done anything earlier to change the outcome, the water was rising much too fast for the first stage’s release rate to cope with. A dam which is over 200% capacity and filling for hours at 6% extra per hour, even with its flood gate opened, is always going to be unmanageable, and to result in an emergency release.

                That emergency release was not even uncontrolled, it was an engineered controlled release rate, that occurred when all that could be done had been done, and the outcome was still manageable. It prevented a dam wall failure in the early hours of the morning, which would certainly have killed hundreds of people, possibly thousands. There was no possibility of evacuations, the streets were submerged, no one could drive out, no one could move. The city suburbs would have ended up in Cleveland bay before morning.

                You imagine the people operating the dam, who’s families and homes were downstream of it, did not do all that was necessary to avoid a major flood in the city, or worse?

                All of those decisions had already been made in advance! It’s operation was (by design) not subject to being undermined by political meddling, or by negligence. And preemption was not necessary. It was not possible to stop the gates from opening once the predetermined capacity threshold had been crossed, the formal spill management decisions had already been made and were built into the emergency floodgate design. As was the capacity to drain the dam quickly enough, even during the heaviest and longest rain events. And still preserve more than 90% of the city in that event.

                The Dam worked, any communication or requests to a Minister for some supposed decision to open the first-stage gate earlier was ultimately irrelevant, to the design of the dam and to the way that rain event progressed.

                20

              • #
                AndyG55

                Having a dam with the duel functions of water supply and flood mitigation is a strange idea. Two absolutely opposite functions.

                Water supply, you want to maintain as high a level as possible

                Flood mitigation, you want it kept as low as possible.

                If they had built Wolfdene as the storage dam, and let Wyvenhoe do its singular job of flood mitigation, the flooding problems in Brisbane probably would not have occurred.

                20

              • #
                WXcycles

                Having a dam with the duel functions of water supply and flood mitigation is a strange idea. Two absolutely opposite functions.

                It’s necessarily a duel-purpose dam, no choice, the city is built on Ross River, and a dam for the city was needed so they built the dam in 1971, with the reservoir and spillway level that held the necessary storage capacity for about 3 years of water supply, then supplemented with a pipeline to the Burdekin river in the SW, and one to Paluma Dam in the NW. Then they built a higher stronger wall around it in 2007 which was high enough and strong enough to hold about three times the maximum normal volume. Thus providing the necessary tropical flood mitigation head-room to (almost always) prevent a major flood in suburbs. It’s worked since 1971. Even during the “Night of Noah’ on 10th Jan, 1998, when we got ~760 mm in 5 hrs and 40 mins.

                The new flood gate design was the latest addition in a series of storage and flood mitigation upgrades.

                The next is a low pressure gravity-fed pipeline (i.e. much cheaper then pumping water from the lower Burdekin) from the much promised but never actually built $5.35 billion Hell’s-Gate Dam diversion to Ross River Dam, which would guarantee affordable water supply to Townsville during extended drought.

                The current political fashion seems to be to call everything water-infrastructure-ish here part of the, “Hell’s Gate Dam Project”, but they don’t actually ever fund and build a ****ing dam! The ‘chook says we must study it in very great “cost-benefit details” … as it’s only been 81 years since it was proposed.

                20

  • #
    Deplorable Lord Kek

    A cynic would remark that this was the cause of the government’s disinclination to offer drought assistance to affected farmers.

    20

    • #
      Curious George

      Drought assistance should always be offered to city dwellers. Farmers are only “deplorables”.

      To show that city dwellers can do unbelievable things for the environment, Microsoft plans to become carbon-negative by 2030. Will all Microsoft employees stop breathing? Not enough …
      https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2020/01/16/microsoft-will-be-carbon-negative-by-2030/

      30

      • #
        Serp

        Second sentence is “The carbon in our atmosphere has created a blanket of gas that traps heat and is changing the world’s climate.” Yep, Microsoft has taken the John Kerry pill and believes in “the blanket”. And, no or should it be yes, I read no further.

        50

  • #
    frednk

    Jo’s blogs ridiculing an article that points out an anomaly in the accounting process. As a large part of our biomass has just been destroyed an anomaly that is rather helpful to our accounts.

    At the same time we get this published in the age:

    https://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/welcome-aboard-denialists-now-let-s-stop-fiddling-and-start-fixing-20200117-p53say.html

    snarky videos, snarky country and western songs and Jo snarks, is that really your future?

    111

    • #
      Deplorable Lord Kek

      Speaking of ‘denialism’, alarmists like to deny the fact that anything Australia does to reduce its emissions will be wiped out in short order by the big emitters.

      Of course, this should not stop true believers like yourself living the ‘low carbon’ dream.

      40

    • #
      AndyG55

      What an amazing STUPID rant from someone pretending to be intelligent !!

      STILL trying to make out the fires were anything to do with human made-up climate change. !

      Still being DUMB enough to think anything we do about carbon emissions in Australia will have any affect whatsoever.

      Still in deep DENIAL of the huge part played by fuel build-up due to Government ineptitude (at all levels).

      Basically CLUELESS to reality at every step!!

      Bet he votes Green !!

      81

    • #
      WXcycles

      Fred, who do you think you’re kidding?

      You would not be here at all talking drivel if Jo’s blog content was not hitting home and winning hearts and minds.

      111

    • #
      AndyG55

      “is that really your future.”

      All you have posted since your first post has been petty snark and anti-science mantra BS.

      You should have left it at home…. But you can’t, can you !

      It is who you are… your past, present and future.

      11

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘But when they char Wollemi Pines – sole survivors of a 200 million year old lineage –we’re clearly entering uncharted territory.’

      Bring back cool burning and it won’t happen again.

      20

  • #
    Destroyer D69

    Would someone please explain the difference between a “cultural”and an ïndigenous” burn. It seems to me that one is in reference to the practices of the indigenous population and the other to make a poltical gain…..

    60

    • #
      hatband

      Yep, you’ve nailed it.

      33

    • #
      Yonniestone

      They’re technically the same, originally used on vegetation in modern times they moved on to anything combustible, contents of houses, windows doors and any type of vehicle.

      The move back to vegetation would be welcome as it could save lives and taxpayer money……although there’d be a charge……

      110

    • #
      AndyG55

      Welcome to country ;-)

      60

  • #
    Robber

    Congratulations Mike Foley, Sydney Morning Herald, Tim Baxter Climate Council Senior Researcher, and Australian National University Climate Change Institute Professor Mark Howden. Clearly killing off our agriculture sector is “good for the environment”. Why doesn’t the government bring on a major recession? That would slash “emissions” and we could celebrate meeting our Paris commitment. Too bad it’s not good for people. Slashing production of energy and food and steel and other minerals is apparently the only way to save the planet.
    The sooner these experts revert to living in humpies and scrounging for food the better. Get them out of their air conditioned offices and homes, stop them driving and flying, no more hot showers or hot food – feel better now?

    130

    • #
      AndyG55

      No, you have it all wrong..

      Its perfectly okay to outsource all manufacturing to China and India, where real pollution controls are a lot slacker..

      81

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Its part of the UN plan of Agenda 21 ( driving people off 90% of all land area, including farms ) and Rewilding ( letting the 90% of land now devoid of humans go back to its natural state ).

      The question is…how do you feed so nany people if farming is effectively blocked by these lunatics?

      You dont – you create a global conflict to lower the numbers of human “parasires” upon thier mythical “gaia” pagan goddess, and use the remaining people as slaves.

      Ive been reading a lot of the material they have publushed over the years, and this appears to be the general plan. The reason for the major war I mentioned is they plan to force people to accept thier “god” , but realise most people will just laugh at them, so in thier tiny depraved minds they figure better to just get rid of those who will rightly mock them. And years of herding people into camps to “re-educate” them has had multiple practice runs, so its all been well rehearsed….n*zism never died…it just got rebranded as extreme environmentalism and now wares a suit. Evil is evil.

      See…it will all work out swimmingly….

      Ugh.

      30

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Jo hat does David make of all this?, considering he was the former leading carbon modeler for the Australian Greenhouse Office whats the calculations on such claims?

    60

  • #
    Ross

    I’m probably reading too much into it but in the last twelve months I’m getting the impression the alarmists are panicking behind the scenes. Their claims and arguments are getting more and more outlandish.

    From Greta Thunberg to Micheal Mann’s latest rant.They are not even trying to hide their approach with more and more outright propaganda.

    It the brain washing of young kids that annoys me the most.

    120

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Agree Ross , any weather event now is a sign and all the usual celebrities are vying for the most alarmist award .
      The MSM are also vying for their respective awards .

      70

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Ross:
      They have to brainwash the kids; most of the adults can remember the last drought/bushfire/hottest year ever since the last hottest year ever etc.
      Yes, they are panicking. Trump shattered their hopes of lots of money coming. Since then Brazil and Indonesia have deserted the fold and others will follow. Even in Germany there are rumblings from the population.

      Personally I am hoping for a freezing late November in Glasgow this year. It would make great news headlines “PM stuck in a snowdrift” and the media being reminded of all those “children aren’t going to know what snow is” predictions.

      70

    • #
      George4

      What happens if a new generation like James Murdoch take over ?
      He is on the board of News corp.
      I think most journalists would feel the pressure to tow the line.

      The younger son and daughter-in-law of News Corp executive chairman and Fox Corporation co-chairman Rupert Murdoch have taken aim at both organisations’ coverage of climate change

      30

      • #
        Deplorable Lord Kek

        What happens if a new generation like James Murdoch take over

        then the organization will tank.

        just the old story: fortune made by one generation, lost by the next.

        80

      • #
        el gordo

        Lachlan Murdoch runs Sky in Australia, he won the election for Morrison (a kingmaker like his dad) but nobody is crowing, the heavy lifting is still in front.

        41

        • #
          hatband

          Morrison won the Election himself, by following advice and staying on message.

          NewsCorp were puffing Shorten right to the last day, by publishing NewsPolls which bore no

          resemblance to the reality on the ground and the message both the ALP and the Liberal Party

          were obviously getting from their own polling.

          51

        • #
          hatband

          Looking at Turnout Figures from previous Federal Elections, it looks like ALP voters are likely to turn out regardless, whereas Liberal Voters are more likely to turn up if they fear a Labor Government.

          That was borne out in 2016, when NewsCorp were clearly anti-Shorten, yet there was a lower turnout, though not by Labor Voters, and Bill went close.

          So, if Murdoch was biased toward Liberal, it might make some sense to portray it as too close to call, in order to mobilise the anti-Labor voters, but it seems like a risky strategy.

          00

      • #
        Annie

        We will immediately cancel our subscription to The Australian.

        60

  • #
    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

    Morning Jo,
    The all knowing Prof Howden seems to have ignored a minor part of the end of a drought. Pastures green up. Or in scientific terms, grasses start to grow. So do weeds, and bushes and trees. And going to a level of pedantry, the greening is indicative of active photosynthesis, which I’m sure he’s heard of, but doesn’t seem to have absorbed. Especially that bit describes the process as the combination of water (H2O) and that dreaded chemical, carbon dioxide (CO2) into plant food.
    Seems to me that (just) the grasses outgrow the rate at which they’re eaten – especially as they’re also extending their root systems – so there should be a net take up of CO2 by them.
    So I suggest Prof Howden gets his head out of the cow’s arse and looks at the green grass.
    And learns some science.
    Cheers
    Dave B

    70

  • #

    Hey, wait a minute!

    Have I got this right.

    Now it seems that the breaking of the drought will ….. ‘INCREASE’ CO2 emissions.

    To actually increase emissions, then all those green things growing as a result of the ‘drought breaking’ must be a pretty big contributor.

    I wish they would make up their minds. I thought we were told that the CO2 emissions from the power generating sector (the burning of coal and natural gas) added to the energy consumption of fossil fuels in cars boats and planes, and Industry were the the major causes of increased emissions.

    For ‘green stuff’ growing because of drought breaking rain to substantially increase those CO2 emissions, then that sector must be a huge contributor, bigger than the other one, power, transport, Industry ….. to actually make any discernible difference.

    Huh!

    Which one is it?

    It would seem that black really is white now.

    I’ll have to read the media more. (Naah! Just kiddin.)

    Tony.

    150

    • #
      TedM

      Reverse photosynthesis. Not surprised, they get everything backwards.

      60

    • #
      el gordo

      … but wait there is more, CO2 is irrepressible.

      “For these fires in the southeast south (of Australia), probably we are in the ballpark of 400 million tons of carbon,” says Dr. Pep Canadell, a lead scientist with Australia’s national research agency and the executive director of the Global Carbon Project, which tracks greenhouse gas emissions globally.

      ‘To put that figure in perspective, Australia’s total emissions from man-made sources last year was roughly 540 million tons. So this year’s fires, fueled by record-high temperatures and drought, have already surpassed two-thirds of that amount.’

      30

    • #
      Slithers

      Hi Tony, Slightly off topic, but…
      A local maintenance man with 380 solar panels to care for has had to clean them THREE times this January.
      Just one of the hidden costs of Solar.
      Any data on what those big solar farms are producing so far this year?

      30

  • #
    pat

    on ABC News Radio this morning, fire (near Mt Buffalo) still led the bulletin, followed by warnings of flooding, mudslides, landslides, and worse, from the rain. no joy at all – much like the following!

    17 Jan: NYT: Hold the Phone, Sydney … It’s Raining.
    For one gray and drenching moment, or a few hours in some places, strong rain doused some of Australia’s deadly flames. And all rejoiced.
    By ***Damien Cave; ***Michelle Elias contributed reporting
    SYDNEY, Australia — Rural firefighters and farmers, as well as just about everyone in Australia’s largest city, rejoiced Friday at the arrival of something not seen for months: heavy downpours of that magnificent gift called rain…

    But while the downpours were greeted warmly, they also caused problems. Sydney suffered train cancellations and heavy traffic. The hardened, dry ground in more rural areas could not handle the largess, leading to flash floods in some places…

    ***In a battle of extremes, the historic wildfires made the storms more dangerous. Fire officials warned of “widow makers” — burned-out trees that collapse with precipitation.
    The rain also threatened the water supply in many areas as ash and debris washed off into reservoirs…

    Meteorologists and fire officials, like water officials, were quick to warn against viewing the storms as a cure for the country’s fire problem. Several large fires in Victoria “remain very active and unpredictable,” state fire officials said.
    In New South Wales, areas near the Snowy Mountains, where fires are still burning and smoldering, have received little if any rain…

    Climate change deniers — including a federal lawmaker, Craig Kelly — still seized on the rain as evidence that people had been engaged in “climate alarmism.” On his Facebook page (LINK), Mr. Kelly noted that the government’s Bureau of Meteorology had predicted that heavy rain might not appear until March or April, after the end of summer.
    But scientists have long dismissed such claims, which confuse isolated weather patterns with long-term climate trends…
    “Weather is what we get, day to day, and this varies in the short term,” says an explanation from Australia’s Climate Council…

    Some Australians, however, hoped that even the partisan climate debate might be dampened by the rain…
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/17/world/australia/sydney-rain-fire.html

    TWEET: ***Damien Cave, NYT
    Yes, we’re excited about all that glorious rain. No it won’t solve the fire or climate change problem. A weather story written with appropriate pizzazz
    LINK NYT
    https://twitter.com/damiencave/status/1218048024212987905

    LinkedIn: ***Michelle Elias, Freelance Journalist, Sydney
    News and Feature Writer
    Special Broadcasting Service (SBS) Australia
    Feb 2018 – Feb 2019
    Education: Uni of Technology Sydney
    Bachelor’s Degree – Law/Communications (Journalism)2016-2020
    https://au.linkedin.com/in/michelle-elias-3b393a116

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    • #
      pat

      Craig Kelly on his FB page links to The Australian, but others carried the story, of course:

      11 Dec 2019: Daily Mail: No rain until MAY: Forecasters warn that there will be no significant rainfall for six months as experts warn of worst bushfire season ever
      •Australia is set to swelter for another six months before first significant rainfall
      •Bureau of Meteorology warning comes as NSW battles through severe drought
      •State’s agricultural minister said drought-breaking rain not expected until May
      •Queensland and Victoria also looking ‘very lean for rain’, according to briefing
      By Charlie Coë
      The Bureau of Meteorology made the stark warning for Queensland, Victoria and New South Wales at a meeting of state and federal ministers in the regional NSW town of Moree on Tuesday…

      Greg Mullins, who was Fire and Rescue NSW commissioner from 2003 to 2017, said Sydney will likely to experience devastation greater than 1994, when hundreds of suburban homes were lost.
      ‘The worst is to come because it’s going to get hotter and drier and there’s no significant rain in the outlooks,’ Mr Mullins told AAP.
      ‘We’ve got massive fires that are too big to put out without rain. They are going to get bigger and they are going to come into Sydney suburbs, the South Coast, the Central Coast.’…
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7778895/Australian-forecasters-warn-no-significant-rainfall-six-months.html

      11 Dec: AFR: AAP: Sydney told to brace for ‘unprecedented losses’
      Greg Mullins, who was Fire and Rescue NSW commissioner from 2003 to 2017, says Sydney will likely experience devastation greater than 1994, when hundreds of suburban homes were lost.
      “The worst is to come because it’s going to get hotter and drier and there’s no significant rain in the outlooks,” Mr Mullins told AAP…
      “They are going to see unprecedented losses, unprecedented fire, health issues with smoke, heatwaves and the science is in – this is all underpinned by a warming climate.”…

      “The sheer scale of these fires – we haven’t had this before. We haven’t had these losses, we haven’t had them at this time of year, they haven’t been this big. We’re really up against it.”
      Mr Mullins took aim at Prime Minister Scott Morrison for failing to co-ordinate with current fire chiefs and not spending more on fire-fighting aircraft.
      Canberra has “dropped the ball entirely on emissions reductions”, the Climate Council member said…

      ***Mr Mullins said federal government inaction on climate change is “galling” and politicians are continuing to gag debate…
      “Nobody is saying climate change causes bushfires, it just exacerbates the conditions for them to turn out like this.”…
      Leading oceanographer and UNSW climate scientist Professor Matthew England said the public was sick of “head in the sand” politics when it came to climate change…
      But a recent survey released by UNSW shows a majority of Australians think it is right to discuss climate change during natural disasters…
      “The worst is to come this season because it’s going to get hotter and drier and there’s no significant rain in the outlooks.”…
      https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/climate-inaction-is-galling-says-ex-fire-boss-20191211-p53isc

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    • #
      Serp

      Grammar, vocabulary, all gone and inevitably meaning must follow; after all when you’ve successfully illiterated and innumerated the entire population what possible use could there be for logic?

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Rain in the wet, who knew?

    316

    • #
      AndyG55

      Must be that mythical “climate change™” you so worship, mustn’t it. !

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    • #
      el gordo

      BoM didn’t predict this rain in the seasonal forecast, massive fail.

      They have a supercomputer, junk in junk out and not a word on the blocking pattern which exacerbated the recent bushfire season.

      110

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Like socialism……maybe no one has ever programmed it right…..

        Ha ha!!

        70

        • #
          el gordo

          Capitalism also has a lot to answer for, with its cyclic boom and bust, making the Beijing hybrid steady state look appealing.

          20

          • #
            Annie

            I dunno about you EG, but I don’t like other aspects of their society…you can keep it.

            50

            • #
              el gordo

              The free market is good for creating economic growth, both Australia and China agree on this. Their people don’t get to vote, whereas we are compelled to vote and one of the majors will get up, nothing much between them, it appears to be a pseudo Marxist dictatorship.

              So a citizen of Shanghai is politically no worse off.

              10

      • #

        they predicted it. You read their statement right El G/

        To paraphrase, “late monsoon means that any significant rain won’t occur until January and February but falls are unlikely to be above average or break a drought for much of the affected area. All completely correct so far

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    • #
      TedM

      Not those on your side of the debate PF.

      10

  • #
    pat

    one I missed, from the award-winning Coorey:

    9 Jan: AFR: Morrison is now counting the cost of climate denialism
    Those still claiming that there is no link between climate change and the fires are akin to the Roman Catholic lunatics who denounced Galileo for heresy.
    by Phillip Coorey
    And given the bushfire season now runs for a good six months every year, there is every indication we will be back in this position again before we know it.
    When the immediate crisis passes, Morrison should use some of that internal authority the election victory gave him. He must get together with the states to boost and co-ordinate bushfire response assets and protocols, and he should take on the climate change deniers in his party such as Craig Kelly.

    Those still claiming that there is no climate change link to the fires, or that there is nothing unusual about the weather, are akin to the Roman Catholic lunatics who, in the 17th century, denounced Galileo for heresy and imprisoned him for life because of his belief that the Earth and other planets revolved around the sun.
    At least in the 17th century such things were still contestable, given the lack of technology to unequivocally prove the Copernican theory to which Galileo subscribed.

    Today’s denialists say there is nothing unusual. They drag up old newspaper articles from the 1800s to show we’ve had devastating fires before, as if there is some equivalence. Back then, fires were fought, if at all, with wet wheat bags. There were no planes, personnel or fire trucks, and the fires were neither as frequent nor as widespread as they are today…

    As firefighters – both individually and as organisations – continue to point out, hazard reduction burning, typically done in the colder months, is becoming harder and more dangerous because the bush is invariably too dry.
    While there may be areas where better hazard reduction would make sense, to suggest it could be carried out across millions of hectares and failure to do so is responsible for the current catastrophe is plainly absurd.
    As for arsonists, well, we’ve always had these creatures in our midst. The only difference is they can now can set rainforests alight…
    https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/morrison-is-now-counting-the-cost-of-climate-denialism-20200109-p53pzi

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    From the Australian (and all the others)
    “Bushfires: ‘Ecological disaster’ as mass fish kill stretches 70km. Dead fish rot in the Macleay River northwest of Kempsey, NSW. exclusive ”

    I’m surprised that Pat didn’t cover it

    411

  • #
    pat

    ode to BoM the predictor:

    6 Jan: ScienceAlert: Australia’s Bushfires Are Horrifying, But Researchers Think There’s More to Come
    by NEVILLE NICHOLLS, THE CONVERSATION, Professor emeritus, School of Earth, Atmosphere and Environment, Monash University.
    But as we direct resources to coping and recovery, we should not forget other weather and climate challenges looming this summer…
    The peak time for heatwaves in southern Australia has not yet arrived. Many parts of Australia can expect heavy rains and flooding. And northern Australia’s cyclone season is just gearing up…

    Let it rain
    2019 was Australia’s driest year on record. Since early winter the Bureau of Meteorology has correctly predicted the development of these widespread dry conditions.
    But relief may be coming. The latest bureau outlooks suggest more normal summer conditions from February to April (LINK). If it eventuates, this would include more rain…
    The arrival of drought-breaking rains is notoriously hard to predict – in the past, they have come any time between January and May. Global warming is also complicating seasonal climate predictions…

    But rain will bring other risks…
    Continental-scale droughts such as that experienced over the past few years are often broken by widespread heavy rains, leading to an increased risk of flooding including potentially lethal flash floods…
    Australia’s north may be particularly hard hit. The onset of the tropical wet season has been very much delayed, as the bureau predicted…
    But there are some suggestions widespread rain may be on its way.
    Further south, drought-breaking rains can also be heavy and widespread, leading to increased flood risk. So even when the drought breaks and rains quell the fires, there will likely still be bouts of extreme weather, and high demand for emergency services.
    Cyclones and heatwaves
    The tropical cyclone season has been much delayed, as predicted by the bureau, although there are now signs of cyclonic activity in the near future…

    Be thankful for weather forecasters
    The recent experience of farmers, fire fighters, water resource managers and communities illustrate the value of the service provided by the Bureau of Meteorology…
    Recent drought, fires and heatwaves – exacerbated by global warming – have been devastating…

    Never before have weather forecasts been so readily available to the public. Here are ways you can use them to reduce risks to life and property during an extreme event:
    •Listen to ABC local radio for emergency updates and detailed Bureau of Meteorology forecasts…
    https://www.sciencealert.com/the-australian-bushfires-are-horrendous-but-the-season-has-more-in-store

    Updated 18 Jan: BOM says more rain on way for Sydney as country creek flows for first time in five years
    By Lydia Feng and Amelia Bernasconi
    Updated about 3 hours ago
    Water has flowed through a creek in drought-ravaged northern New South Wales for the first time in five years with more heavy rain and thunderstorms expected to hit the state over the weekend…

    The Bureau of Meteorology (BOM) predicts showers and thunderstorms will be concentrated over the north and east of the state today and Sunday.
    “We will be looking at cumulative rainfall in addition to what we had today to Sunday of around ***30 to 800 millimetres,” forecaster Grahame Reader said…

    Australian Reptile Park Director, Tim Faulkner said staff had been busy recently preparing for bushfires.
    “This is incredible. Just last week, we were having daily meetings to discuss the imminent threat of bushfires,” Mr Faulkner said.
    “We haven’t seen flooding like this at the park for over 15 years.”
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-17/nsw-weather-more-rain-and-storms-to-hit-on-weekend/11874360

    9 Jan: ABC: South Australia sweats it out through driest year on record in 2019
    ABC Radio Adelaide By Malcolm Sutton
    “There’s nothing really indicating that things will cool down too much over the next few months, although we are starting to see some signs that the monsoon season is starting to get active,” he said.
    BOM’s climate outlook overview, released last week, found that SA and Western Australia could receive average to wetter-than-average conditions in January, ***despite eastern Australia remaining drier than average.
    That potential for wetter conditions was expected to weaken through February and there was no strong tendency towards wetter or drier-than-average conditions up to April…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-09/south-australia-cooks-in-driest-year-on-record/11852580

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    • #
      pat

      23 Jul 2019: The”Conversation”: 40 years ago, scientists predicted climate change. And hey, they were right
      by Neville Nicholls, Professor emeritus, School of Earth, Atmosphere and Environment, Monash University
      Disclosure statement
      Neville Nicholls has received funding from the Australian Research Council and other bodies for research on climate variability and change. He does not receive any such funding at the moment.

      Forty years ago, a group of climate scientists sat down at Woods Hole in Massachusetts for the first meeting of the “Ad Hoc Group on Carbon Dioxide and Climate”. It led to the preparation of what became known as the Charney Report (LINK) – the first comprehensive assessment of global climate change due to carbon dioxide.
      It doesn’t sound as impressive as landing on the Moon, and there certainly weren’t millions waiting with bated breath for the deliberations of the meeting.
      But the Charney Report is an exemplar of good science, and the success of its predictions over the past 40 years has firmly established the science of global warming…

      Strong science
      The report exemplifies how good science works: establish an hypothesis after examining the physics and chemistry, then based on your assessment of the science make strong predictions. Here, “strong predictions” means something that would be unlikely to come true if your hypothesis and science were incorrect…

      An earlier version of this article referenced a meeting in Massachusetts. The meeting was at Woods Hole, but not at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.

      0 comments
      https://theconversation.com/40-years-ago-scientists-predicted-climate-change-and-hey-they-were-right-120502

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    • #
      Serp

      “Australian Reptile Park Director, Tim Faulkner” and here was I thinking Ita but no she heads the Corporation not the Park.

      00

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Understanding fire weather
    Australia’s fire weather seasons

    While bush fires can happen at any time of the year in Australia, the time of peak bushfire activity varies across the country with the changes in the seasonal weather patterns.

    For northern Australia the peak bushfire period is during the dry season, which is generally throughout winter and spring.
    In southern Australia the bushfire season peaks in summer and autumn.

    While these are traditional peaks of the bushfire season, local conditions can drive dangerous bushfire activity at any time.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/weather-services/fire-weather-centre/bushfire-weather/index.shtml

    A change in wind direction can bring a period of dangerous bushfire activity, this is often seen as a trough or cold front – also known as a cool change.

    In southern Australia, cold fronts are probably the most powerful influence on our fire weather.”

    >> Quite so …

    Australia bushfires: Cooler weather brings respite, situation still volatile
    https://www.dw.com/en/australia-bushfires-cooler-weather-brings-respite-situation-still-volatile/a-51889829

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  • #
    Zane

    The word ” climate ” is supposed to be a noun. It has now become a misused adjective, as in climate science, climate justice, climate outrage, climate emergency, climate action, climate catastrophe, and so on. It’s all climate nonsense.

    The Weekend Oz says academics and the like are going to start pressuring their super funds to de-invest in fossil fuel companies. The Asians will no doubt be grateful to buy Australian coal assets on the cheap. Indonesian, Chinese, and Thai companies by have already done so. Thai Banpu bought Centennial Coal in 2010 for $2 billion. China’s Yancoal bought Gloucester Coal in 2012. And in 2018 Indonesia’s Adaro Energy bought Rio Tinto’s Kestrel coking coal mine for over $2 billion.

    Hey, Australian super funds don’t want anything to do with dirty old coal. They want to transition to those lovely clean green renewables…

    Can ya dig it?

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    pat

    17 Jan: Yahoo: Why your car’s temperature gauge differs to what it feels like outside
    by Brianne Tolj
    Any driver who has raised an eyebrow when their car’s temperature gauge reads much higher than what it feels like outside have every reason to do so, according to the Bureau of Meteorology (BoM)…
    “Your car needs to know how hot it is outside in order to cool you down using the least amount of energy possible,” BoM said in a release (LINK).
    The sensors that retrieve the information are often placed in the front grille or under one of the side mirrors…

    ‘Heat soak’
    Official temperatures readings are taken by BoM by placing a box with louvres over a natural surface like grass to allow the air to circulate while being protected from the sun and rain.
    “In your car, on the other hand, the temperature reading can be affected by the surrounding environment. The largest consideration is the heat radiated by the road surface,” BoM says.
    “If the temperature sensor is under the wing mirror, it has a front-row seat to the hot bitumen under your wheels.”…
    BoM recommended checking their official observations for the correct temperature…
    https://au.news.yahoo.com/bureau-meteorology-reveals-car-temperature-gauge-works-092507905.html

    above has link to:

    17 Jan: BoM: Why is your car telling you it’s hotter than the official temperature?
    So, if your car is saying that you’ve broken the all-time Australian temperature record of
    50.7°C (recorded at Oodnadatta Airport in January 1960), have a quick look at the official observations for your location before getting too excited!…

    13 Feb 2019: Joannenova: Australia’s new hottest day just “discovered”, not Albany or Oodnadatta, but Carnarvon (51 degrees in 1953!)
    http://joannenova.com.au/2019/02/australias-new-hottest-day-just-discovered-not-albany-or-oodnadatta-but-carnarvon-51-degrees-in-1953/

    20

  • #
    george1st:)

    What will these climate extremists think of next .
    Well the polar bears are thriving in the arctic , so now its penguin problems in the Antarctic.
    The ice habitat is on the move , CO2 caused it of course .

    10

  • #
    Deplorable Lord Kek

    17 Jan: Yahoo: Why your car’s temperature gauge differs to what it feels like outside

    it’s climate change, obviously.

    20

  • #
    • #
      Deplorable Lord Kek

      that graph shows (or purports to show) global temperature change from 1850-2019.

      no mention of co2 rising, but we will take that as implied.

      1. the fact that A (rising temperature) and B (rising co2) correlate is not enough to establish a casual relationship (for the same reason a rooster crowing every morning at dawn does not establish that it is the rooster’s crowing that causes the sun to rise). In science causal relationships need to be proven, not assumed.

      2. the world has been warming since the end of the little ice age in about 1880.

      3. per Phil Jones of the CRU, the warming trends show no accelerated warming:

      1860-1880 0.163
      1910-1940 0.15
      1975-1998 0.166
      1975-2009 0.161

      The absence of unusual activity means the null hypothesis (its natural) remains unrefuted.

      4. the data used to calculate the temperature trends is unreliable.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        Starts at COLDEST period in 10,000 years. Of course it has warmed up..

        Now let’s do a similar thing, but starting in the Medieval Warm Period

        Doesn’t look even the slightest by SCARY, does it !!

        .
        .

        BOO !!

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      • #
        Another Ian

        One of the statistics class examples of this was the significant correlation for US cities of over 10,000 people between hard liquor consumption and the number of Baptist ministers

        20

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        of course instead of trolling for a politically correct answer (ie it’s not happening) you could do your own research, but that would put you outside your bubble and you might get frightened

        https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-temperature
        https://skepticalscience.com/ipcc-global-warming-pause.htm
        https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190417084535.htm

        any more ref’s and the moderation hammer will hit

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        • #
          AndyG55

          Yep, URBAN and agenda adjusted temperatures as displayed, are rising.. as any person aware of UHI effect and the “adjustments” would comprehend why

          Link to SkS.. junk science..

          Third link “Co-author Dr Gavin Schmidt,“.. the fox guarding the chook pen.. You have GOT to be joking. That is stupidity at its worst.

          Now, where is your empirical evidence that the beneficial warming was caused by human released CO2

          You do comprehend that it has now been empirically proven that the troposphere is in thermal equilibrium, always.

          Do you have the vaguest clue what that means?

          It means that even if the so-called “greenhouse effect” did exist, it is being immediately countered by the gravity based thermal gradient, hence effectively it does not exist….. PERIOD.

          I know the whole understanding of this is totally beyond you,

          …. but do at least try to overcome your abyss of empty knowledge.

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        • #
          Deplorable Lord Kek

          thanks for this link to “skepticalscience” pointing out their complete failure to grasp basic scientific method:

          “Many popular climate myths share the trait of vagueness. For example, consider the argument that climate has changed naturally in the past. Well of course it has, but what does that tell us? It’s akin to telling a fire investigator that fires have always happened naturally in the past. That would doubtless earn you a puzzled look from the investigator. Is the implication that because they have occurred naturally in the past, humans can’t cause fires or climate change?”

          50

        • #
          Deplorable Lord Kek

          and you might get frightened

          “An appeal to fear (also called argumentum ad metum or argumentum in terrorem) is a fallacy in which a person attempts to create support for an idea by attempting to increase fear towards an alternative. The appeal to fear is common in marketing and politics [and climate change alarmism].”

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        • #
          Fred Streeter

          I do visit these sites. Well not so much SS, I am very sceptical of their understanding of science.

          As for living in a bubble, have I ever stated that it, the increase in temperature, is not happening? I am happy to accept that.

          Is it happening because of CO2? No.

          I suggest you and yours try a truly low CO2 (input and output) emissions lifestyle.

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    • #
      Robber

      Interesting graphic. Over the last 150 years the world has warmed by over 1°C and humanity has prospered, with population increasing from just over 1 billion to 7.8 billion.
      Yet according to the alarmists, further warming of 0.5°C will be catastrophic. Ask the alarmists for evidence, and then to tell you what the optimum average temperature is. Isn’t it interesting that people survive despite living in much colder parts of the world and others in much hotter places, so what does the average mean?

      60

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        And what proportion of humans live in the hot (deadly) tropics rather than the (safe) cold of Greenland? **

        **where they’ve just set a record of minus 66℃ in the middle of the ice sheet. That will slow the melting down.

        40

      • #
        Another Ian

        Robber

        Is it really a flat earth scenario and that extra 0.5 degree starts to push them over the edge?

        10

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          “starts to push”?

          It’s tipped ‘em,

          they’re gone,

          long gone -

          that noise is just echo,

          reverberating . . . fading . . .

          10

    • #
      tom0mason

      Why should it need a critique?
      From the end of the Little Ice Age the planet has warmed by about 1°C, so what? Climate always changes, only those who wish to go back to the cold and more brutal life of the end of the LIA.
      Interestingly I note that that none of these researchers (or any other researcher) has come up with a credible reason for how the LIA started and why it progressed the way it did.
      From Wikipedia “The NASA Earth Observatory notes three particularly cold intervals: one beginning about 1650, another about 1770, and the last in 1850, all separated by intervals of slight warming.”
      and
      “Several causes have been proposed: cyclical lows in solar radiation, heightened volcanic activity, changes in the ocean circulation, variations in Earth’s orbit and axial tilt (orbital forcing), inherent variability in global climate, and decreases in the human population (for example from the Black Death and the colonization of the Americas).”

      So there is not a credible explanation for how and why the LIA started, yet those who follow the story of the UN-IPCC believe that it can not happen again in the near term. A belief that is based only on ignorance.

      100

      • #
        sophocles

        It wuz the Sun wot dun it.

        those who follow the story of the UN-IPCC believe that it can not happen again in the near term. A belief that is based only on ignorance.

        It surely is. SSC 26 has been predicted to drop out, another Maunder-type minimum. But that’s Okay: we’ve had warnings from those involved in Solar research for the last 20 years, and those who think it’s CO2 and not the Sun which is responsible, like Skeptical Science, think it’s only going to be about 0.3 °C fall in temps. Oh yeah? On what grounds? The warming we’ve had since the start of the 1980s, as predicted back in 1970 by Willi Dansgaard looking at two Solar Cycles has been particularly accurate. Cause: less cloud cover. Not CO2.

        “The next fifty years will be cool” he said. I’m not arguing but I’m most certainly watching.

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    • #
  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    17 Jan: WSJ: Appeals Court Tosses Youngsters’ Climate-Change Suit Against Government
    Judges don’t have power to require the government to phase out fossil-fuel emissions, court says
    By Brent Kendall
    A U.S. federal appeals court threw out a novel lawsuit alleging the federal government was violating young people’s constitutional rights by not doing more to address the harms of climate change.
    The San Francisco-based Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals expressed sympathy with the young plaintiffs who sued the government, saying that a “failure to change existing policy may hasten an environmental apocalypse.” But in a 2-to-1 ruling Friday, the court said it had to toss the case because judges don’t have the power to require the government to phase out…

    17 Jan: The Hill: Appeals court tosses kids’ climate change lawsuit
    By John Kruzel
    A divided three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit said that while the lawsuit raised critical issues concerning the government’s promotion of fossil fuels, they were beyond the court’s power to resolve.
    “Reluctantly, we conclude that such relief is beyond our constitutional power,” Judge Andrew Hurwitz wrote for the majority. “Rather, the plaintiffs’ impressive case for redress must be presented to the political branches of government.”

    Hurwitz’s opinion was joined by Judge Mary Murguia. Dissenting from the majority was Judge Josephine Staton, who usually presides over a federal trial court in California but was designated to the appellate case.
    ***All three judges were appointed by President Obama…

    In her dissent, Staton said the climate change issues raised in the suit were within the court’s authority to redress, and warned that “waiting is not an option.”
    “If plaintiffs’ fears, backed by the government’s own studies, prove true, history will not judge us kindly,” Staton wrote. “When the seas envelop our coastal cities, fires and droughts haunt our interiors, and storms ravage everything between, those remaining will ask: Why did so many do so little?”

    A lawyer for the children said the group intended to appeal the decision to a panel of the full circuit…
    https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/478817-appeals-court-tosses-kids-climate-change-lawsuit

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  • #
    Ronald Bruce

    Round up all the green socialists put them on an island off the coast, give them 1 Windmill and one solar panel and nothing else build a fence around the island so they cannot get off and force them to live the life they’re trying to force us to live. Let’s see how they like that.

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    • #
      sophocles

      Nice idea Ronald …
      Can we make predic… ahh projections about how well they will take such treatment?

      I can foresee some massive temper tantrums … :-D

      20

  • #
    TedM

    First a terrible drought, then terrible wildfires, now heavy rain; when will that bloody ScoMo stop interfering with the climate.

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    • #

      As, according to the media who tell us that everything is his fault, what Prime Minister Morrison needs to do to appease the ABC everyone is to immediately resign, declare the result of the last election null and void due to an aberration, and install Anthony Albanese as Prime Minister.

      Everything will be fixed, oh, until Bill Shorten demands to be PM that is.

      That’ll please the leftie lovies, the ABC, everyone, I feel sure.

      Tony.

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      • #

        There is something that is slightly encouraging about all of what is happening now.

        The LNP and the ALP are currently both heading in EXACTLY the same direction.

        However, the current LNP government are doing it a lot more slowly.

        That gives time for the truth to become evident, and when that truth does get out, then it will be a lot easier to roll back.

        The LNP will then start to ensure the full truth does come out.

        The ALP will just quietly shut up, and breathe a quiet ‘phew, dodged a bullet there’, as the truth even becomes evident to them as well.

        The Greens and their followers will look dumbfounded and say ….. ‘What just happened then?’

        Tony.

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    • #
      Dennis

      It’s not knowing how to operate the magic wand.

      lol

      10

    • #
      sophocles

      You wish … :-D

      try this on for size for fiddling with the weather, and it’s going to get worse — like really bad — before it get’s better:

      https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/WMM/data/WMM2020/WMM2020_D_BoZ_MILL.pdf

      00

  • #
    pat

    16 Jan: NYT: How Hard Is It to Quit Coal? For Germany, 18 Years and $44 Billion
    By Somini Sengupta and Melissa Eddy
    The move shows how expensive it is to stop burning the world’s dirtiest fossil fuel, despite a broad consensus that keeping coal in the ground is vital to averting a climate crisis, and how politically complicated it is…
    Germany’s timetable, though, could present challenges to the European Union’s efforts to swiftly cut its greenhouse gas emissions, as the bloc’s new leadership has announced. Countries around the world are watching how quickly the 28-country union, which, taken together is currently the third-largest emitter of planet-warming gases, can reduce its carbon footprint. Germany is the largest economy in the European Union…

    Coal is at a turning point globally. Renewable energy is getting cheaper…
    Yet coal remains ascendant in some parts of the world, in part because it has been the go-to fuel for so long, it employs millions of people globally, and because the industry often enjoys robust political backing.
    Eastern European countries, particularly Poland and the Czech Republic, still rely heavily on coal. The European Union this week created a €100 billion fund to aid their transition to cleaner fuels…

    The Asia-Pacific is where coal continues to grow. China, which consumes half of the world’s coal, continues to build more coal plants at home and abroad. According to the International Energy Agency, China’s domestic coal demand is projected to keep growing for at least the next two years, before it levels off. China’s coal expansion puts its own climate targets ***at risk, though, according to a recent study partly written by the government-backed Energy Research Institute.

    Not least, China’s ambitious global infrastructure building drive knows as the Belt and Road Initiative includes at least 63 coal-fired power plants…
    India also continues to rely on coal. It has recently relaxed rules to encourage foreign investment in the Indian coal mining sector, and has been in talks to import metallurgical coal, used to make steel, from Russia.

    And even as it reels from wildfires made more intense by climate change, Australia, one of the world’s biggest coal exporters, is digging for more, encouraged in part by the growing Asian market. Among the most contentious projects is a new $2 billion coal mine in the country’s northeast…
    The German plan says lignite, also known as brown coal — which is abundant, cheap and dirty — could be phased out by 2035, depending on the progress made in the coming years…

    As part of the plan, energy providers in all of Germany will receive $4.8 billion over the course of the next 15 years in compensation for shuttering their coal-burning plants, ***some of which will be replaced by natural gas-burning generators…
    Environmental organizations criticized the government plan for being too slow and for not expanding renewable energy sources quickly enough…
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/16/climate/germany-coal-climate-change.html

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  • #
    pat

    ***try reconciling “It will not debate the scientific consensus that climate change is dangerous” with the rest of the rubbish Harrabin writes:

    17 Dec: BBC: Climate change: Citizens’ assembly prepares to tackle climate change
    By Roger Harrabin
    Should aviation be taxed more? Should SUVs be banned? Should wind power be subsidised by taxpayers?

    ***It will not debate the scientific consensus that climate change is dangerous…

    The gathering will include views of all hues – from people who don’t fear climate change to those who definitely do…

    Most of the presentations they experience will come from academics, although think-tanks, NGOs, and industry voices will also be heard.
    On food, for instance, the assembly will hear opposing views from the National Farmers Union and from the Royal Society of Arts and Commerce, which argues for the need to change the way we farm…

    One of the project’s leaders is Lorraine Whitmarsh, professor of environmental psychology at Cardiff University.
    “It’s very exciting – we haven’t done anything on this level before,” she told BBC News. “It’s huge, and the recruitment (of members) has to be gold standard.”
    Will climate sceptics be involved?
    Ms Whitmarsh explained: “There will be sceptics who don’t even believe climate change is caused by humans. But even they may want to consider evidence that some climate polices (such as active transport) will have health benefits attached.”…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51111796

    17 Dec: BBC: Climate change: ‘Citizens panel’ aims to tackle climate change questions
    Should flying be taxed more? Should more money from taxes go into wind power? Should certain cars be banned?
    The citizens’ panel will spend four weekends from 24 January listening to evidence from experts on how climate policy and science will affect the UK…
    The group will mostly hear presentations from academics, though they will also hear from people working in industries like farming…
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/51145955

    17 Jan: BBC: Climate change: What can I do about it and other questions
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51134254?SThisFB

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    pat

    looks like fair reporting?

    15 Jan: BBC: Suffolk coastal wind farm plans opposed by county council
    Proposals for two offshore wind farms have been opposed by councillors concerned that substations will cause damage to the Suffolk coast.
    Scottish Power Renewables wants to build two wind farms, a cable route through Thorpeness, as well as three substations in Friston.
    Suffolk County Council said it backed the principle of renewable energy but was concerned about the impact…

    The council’s cabinet was concerned at the visual impact on the Suffolk Coast and Heaths Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, the severe effects on the village of Friston, the planting mitigation, noise and disturbance on communities and road networks, the ***Local Democracy Reporting Service (LINK) said…

    Penny Otton, Liberal Democrat, Green and Independent group leader, said the Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty was “nationally and internationally recognised as part of the tourist industry of Suffolk and I think it would be an absolute disaster to put that in jeopardy”…
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-51113363

    ***LINKS to BBC – watch the short video to see how BBC news tentacles are spreading:

    BBC: Local Democracy Reporting Service
    The Local Democracy Reporting Service created up to 150 new journalism jobs to help fill a gap in the reporting of local democracy issues across the UK.
    Watch the film 1m15s
    The journalists are funded by the BBC as part of its latest Charter commitment but employed by regional news organisations.
    At present 149 Local Democracy Reporters have been allocated to news organisations in England, Scotland and Wales.
    https://www.bbc.com/lnp/ldrs

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  • #
    pat

    16 Jan: SolarPowerPortal UK: Solar jobs continue to fall, but sector remains optimistic
    The number of jobs in the solar sector has dropped “disappointingly” since 2015, figures from the Office of National Statistics (ONS) show…
    It shows that employment dropped in the solar sector from 9,000 full time employees in 2015 to just 6,600 in 2018. This was mirrored by a drop in turnover too, falling from £2.7 billion to £1.8 billion over the course of the three years.
    This is largely due to the end of the feed in tariff (FiT), which was announced in 2015 and officially finished in 2019, leading to a drop in solar projects throughout the country. At the time, the government predicted that there would be 18,700 fewer jobs in the industry due to the changes in FiT…

    The fall in solar jobs mirrors a wider drop in employment in the green sector, that has been labelled by the Trade Union Congress (TUC) as an “appalling failure”.
    In 2018 there was roughly 224,800 green jobs in the UK. This is a marked drop from 2014, when an estimated 235,900 people were employed in green professions, such as within the renewables sector.

    The TUC’s general secretary Frances O’Grady said: “This is a dreadful record. The climate emergency is a major threat to the living standards of British people. But we are making next to no progress transforming our economy to safeguard our future…
    “No more excuses – the government must sit down with unions and businesses to plan a just transition to a fairer greener economy.”…
    https://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/solar_jobs_continue_to_fall_but_sector_remains_optimistic

    17 Jan: Recharge: Unions slam ‘appalling’ UK green jobs drop after wind and solar subsidy cuts
    TUC claims total jobs in clean energy fell despite offshore wind boost, as onshore and solar suffered
    Britain’s onshore wind and solar sectors have seen big drops in employment since the controversial withdrawal of government support, according to new official data that unions branded “an appalling failure”…

    A new report, unveiled last weekend by the International Renewable Energy Agency, showed that the global renewables industry could be providing more than 40 million jobs by 2050.
    https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/unions-slam-appalling-uk-green-jobs-drop-after-wind-and-solar-subsidy-cuts/2-1-740032

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  • #
    pat

    google translate:

    Updated 16 Jan: Le Monde France: Intrusion into a nuclear power plant: lighter sentences for activists but heavier for Greenpeace
    The Metz appeals court on Wednesday fined the NGO more than 285,000 euros in fines for material and economic damage after activists entered the Cattenom site in Moselle.
    https://www.lemonde.fr/planete/article/2020/01/15/intrusion-dans-une-centrale-nucleaire-des-peines-allegees-pour-les-militants-mais-alourdies-pour-greenpeace_6026012_3244.html

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  • #
    Robber

    Gotta love the BoM scientists and their expert modeling:
    February to April has roughly equal chances of being wetter or drier than average for most of Australia.”

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  • #
    pat

    open access – read all, despite RSPB being big CAGW believers:

    15 Jan: UK Telegraph: Wind farms built to tackle climate change could be final nail in coffin for seabirds, RSPB warns
    By Helena Horton
    Wind farms built to tackle climate change could be the “final nail in the coffin” for sea birds, the RSPB has warned as it publishes a new report into their feeding hotspots.
    The UK is a globally crucial place for these birds, as it contains 8 million breeding pairs. They are in fast decline – seabirds have faced a 70 per cent drop worldwide since the 1970s, and numbers continue to fall.

    When the birds feed, they fly out to sea to find food sources such as sandeels. The RSPB has tracked over 1,000 of Britain’s four most threatened bird species — kittiwakes, guillemots, razorbills and shags — and found they feed at certain “hotspots”. Many of these are sandbanks where small fish are found – which happen to be the places developers find it easier to build offshore wind turbines.

    The new research, published in the journal Biological Conservation, found that the hotspots are bigger than all the Special Protection Areas in the UK, where human activity on bird life is curbed.
    It has also identified areas in which the building of infrastructure including wind farms should be banned, the RSPB said…

    Wind farms can harm these little birds because collision with the blades can cause death as they try to fly to their feeding spots. Even the birds which wisely dodge the structures are harmed; they are forced to take large detours, putting chicks at risk of starvation as they wait for their parents to return…

    This comes as the government commits to a Seabird Conservation Strategy, to be published in December 2020, and has designated new Special Protection Areas for terns in the Solent and near Middlesbrough .
    These new areas will protect the birds from human activity, such as fishing or outdoor recreation. The new and extended locations join 47 existing sites in English waters…
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/15/wind-farms-built-tackle-climate-change-could-final-nail-coffin/

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    pat

    16 Jan: Sky UK: Electric cars: Warning of power blackouts unless UK prepares
    The report is published as the car industry warns an electric future must be affordable for consumers and businesses.
    by James Sillars
    The Electric Vehicles Energy Task Force, commissioned by ministers, urges a “smart charging” approach – utilising times of weak demand – along with a power network able to adapt to shifts in electricity use.
    Its report said there must be a greater emphasis on power storage to support the grid as part of the investment.
    It stated: “The electricity produced by generators, or supplied from storage devices, must exactly balance the demand for electricity on a second-by-second basis.
    “This is generally referred to as maintaining system stability. If this balance is not maintained the system can fail.”

    It cited the widespread power failure which hit the grid back in August as demonstrating the need to focus on power provision to meet new challenges.
    The popularity of electric and hybrid vehicles is growing though they continue to make up a fraction of total UK sales.

    The Society for Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) report earlier this month showed 229,000 electric and hybrid variants were sold in 2019.
    Of those, 37,850 were purely electric – a rise of 144% on the previous year.
    Almost 1.5 million petrol-powered cars were sold – a rise of 2%…
    https://news.sky.com/story/electric-cars-warning-of-power-blackouts-unless-uk-prepares-11909717

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    • #

      It stated: “The electricity produced by generators, or supplied from storage devices, must exactly balance the demand for electricity on a second-by-second basis.
      “This is generally referred to as maintaining system stability. If this balance is not maintained the system can fail.”

      No, you don’t say!

      Who would have thought?

      Tony.

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    • #
      Bill In Oz

      So let’s see
      37,850 electric cars were sold
      And almost 1.5 million petrol-powered car were sold
      We don’t know how many diesel cars were sold so we don’t know the total car sales.

      BUT clearly British car buyers think petrol is a safer, better bet than electric
      Comparing those two figures the electric cars were just 2.5% of the petrol car sales….
      The average British car buyer is clearly not a Dumblenut !
      :-)

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    pat

    aren’t they funny?

    16 Jan: UK Independent: Climate crisis: Top five global risks all linked to environment, says World Economic Forum
    Extreme weather events, major biodiversity loss and a failure to halt global warming are biggest threats identified by hundreds of experts
    by Ben Chapman
    All of the top five risks facing the world are now linked to the climate crisis, according to the World Economic Forum.

    Extreme weather events, major biodiversity loss and a failure to halt global warming are the biggest threats concerning hundreds of key decision makers, a poll by the WEF found.

    It is the first time in 15 years of carrying out the research that climate change has dominated the list of risks, underlining how the environment has shot up the agenda for the world’s elite in a year of record-breaking temperatures and unprecedented wildfires, alongside high-profile activism from the likes of Greta Thunberg and Extinction Rebellion…

    “The political landscape is polarised, sea levels are rising and climate fires are burning,” said Borge Brende, president of the World Economic Forum…

    The research is published as global business leaders, financiers and politicians prepare to attend next week’s WEF summit in Davos, Switzerland…
    Silvia Dall’Angelo, senior economist at Hermes Investment Management said it was “refreshing” to see the Davos community highlight environmental risks as more important than economic and geopolitical concerns.
    However, she cautioned that all three strands were closely intertwined and could not be dealt with separately…

    John Drzik, chairman of Marsh & McLennan Insights, which helped compile the research, said companies must do more to prevent climate change…
    “High profile events, like recent wildfires in Australia and California, are adding pressure on companies to take action on climate risk at a time when they also face greater geopolitical and cyber risk challenges.”
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/climate-change-global-risks-world-economic-forum-davos-a9285316.html

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  • #
    Ian Wilson

    Jo,

    Climate scientists insist that rising atmospheric CO2 concentrations (measured in parts per million or ppm) are forcing the Earth’s atmospheric and ocean temperatures to increase. They base their claim on the premise that CO2 is a greenhouse gas that prevents infrared light from escaping the Earth’s atmosphere. They propose that the trapped infra-red radiation results in a net gain in the energy that is stored in the Earth’s atmosphere (~ 2 %) and oceans (> 90 %).

    The scientists quantify this build-up in energy using a parameter called the Earth’s [top of the atmosphere] Energy Imbalance (EEI). If the EEI is positive then the Earth’s climate system gains energy, if it’s negative then the system loses energy, largely due to the energy flow into and out of the oceans.

    The best estimates of the observed EEI at the moment are about 0.8 watts per square metre (W m^-2). Many scientists implicitly assume that this energy imbalance is caused, in large part, by anthropogenic GHGs. Theoretical climate models indicate that if you take into account GHGs, ozone, the Earth’s albedo, aerosols, and solar irradiance, the net anthropogenic forcing component upon the Earth’s climate system should be about 1.6 +/- 0.8 W m^-2.

    It is important to understand that climate scientists treat the rising atmospheric CO2 concentrations as a “forcing” upon the climate system. They measure the effect of this “forcing” in units of W m^-2 [i.e. joules (of energy) per second per metre^2]. This means that we need to look for a response to this “forcing” of the Earth’s atmosphere and oceans by CO2 in units that match that of the “forcing” itself i.e. watts or joules (of energy) per second [N.B. the m^-2 part of the units is superfluous because we can integrate of the entire area of the Earth’s surface]. Effectively, what this means is, that at time scales longer than about a year, the time-rate-of-change ocean heat content (d(OHC)/dt) should provide the most reliable indicator of the EEI.

    Climate models indicate that the net EEI should become increasingly positive with time, as CO2 concentrations slowly increase. If this is the case, you would expect that the total energy content of the Earth’s oceans (e.g. from 0 to 2000 m) to increase at an ever-increasing rate with time. Note that this is the same as saying that the d(OHC)/dt (for 0 to 2000 m – measure in Zeta joules = 10^21 joules) should become increasingly positive with time, as well.

    However, what if this is not true? In this case, it would bring into question CO2’s role in the forcing of the increasing world mean temperatures in recent decades.

    The bottom graph in the following diagram shows the time-rate-of-change of the (0 to 2000m) OHC between 1940 and 2019.

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-S2-_YVTcTZU/XiHZuLhRRbI/AAAAAAAAB_8/OHY54zMxmis-dwdPMO0__lwXv_RL8CcfQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Heat_Content.jpg

    OHC data valaible at:
    http://159.226.119.60/cheng/images_files/OHC2000m_annual_timeseries.txt

    References:
    [1] Cheng L. and J. Zhu, 2016, Benefits of CMIP5 multimodel ensemble in reconstructing historical ocean subsurface temperature variation, Journal of Climate. 29(15),5393-5416
    [2]Cheng L. Et al., 2017: Improved estimates of ocean heat content from 1960 to 2015, Science Advances, 3,e1601545.

    What this bottom graph shows is that, contrary to the predictions of the climate scientist, the mean observed time-rate-of-change of the (0 to 2000 m) OHC actually decreased between 1940 and 1960, as well as between 1990 and 2019. It has only systematically increased for the 30 years between 1960 and 1990.

    However, the top graph in this figure clearly shows that CO2 levels have been rising steadily since the end of WWII (with 86 % of all CO2 added to the atmosphere occurring after 1950). Hence, the increasing concentration of CO2 has been steadily applying a forcing to the Earth’s climate system, which should have produced a steady increase in the time-rate-of-change of the OHC.

    A crude indicator of how the net EEI is changing with time is the time-rate-of-change of the world mean atmospheric temperature (i.e. dT/dt – known as the velocity of warming – measured in deg C per year). This is shown in the top graph of the diagram above. It is clear that it is broadly consistent with the results that we have obtained using the D(OHC)/dt.

    What this post conclusively shows is that anthropogenic CO2 cannot be the primary forcing term for recent observed increases in the world’s mean atmospheric and oceanic temperatures.

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    • #
      PeterS

      Too much real science. The left won’t understand it and so they will ignore it as usual. All they believe in is man-made CO2 is increasing and it will cause catastrophic global warming. They just refuse to accept the fact they are completely wrong.

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  • #
    Bill In Oz

    Ahem again Fitzey !
    Your attention please ?
    I notice that you decline to make any comment about the BOM weather station fiasco.
    But only 326 out of 720 of the BOM’s weather stations are ‘Bombed out” as they do not meet the BOM’s own guidelines.
    Surely with your acute awareness & knowledge of all things ‘climatish’, you can mount a stirring defence of the BOM ?
    We await your pearls of wisdom with bated breath !
    Say on Fitz.
    ////////
    This is a repetition of my request to Fitzroy from the previous post.Just in case he did not see it there.
    And I notice that Fred has also not replied to my request for an informed comment.

    Ummmmm ?

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    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      And what – those stations are not hidden, their characteristics are in the descriptions. They are after all just guidelines. If you look at the WMO they will tell you how to rank a weather station according to how well the meet the guides. It is obvious that nearly half of the stations would fall into a lower rank, but those statons (in the main) are manual, report on local conditions once or twice a day. Additionally they do not contribute (in the main) to the ACORN2 SAT.

      So a bunch of weather stations which do not contribute to either the weather model or the climate model (they are both the same, just use a different cell size), are found to be substandard. They still record a proxy for the weather around them, which is useful at least.

      Does that satisfy your petulance, Munchkin?

      PS do not get confused by the updated every 10 minutes tag on the BOM site – that is for the site and AWS, but not for manual stations.

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      • #
        Graeme Bird

        What happens is they continue to use stations outside of the guidelines since they want to get a warming trend by any means necessary. They also include stations subject heat island effects. When asked to do something about this, they make a series of excuses and keep going with the bad data. So you know. Scientists in name only.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        “Additionally they do not contribute (in the main) to the ACORN2 SAT. “

        That is a LIE, they are used in the homogenisation process.

        “They are after all just guidelines”

        Yes, guidelines that are not met.

        Great to see that at least you agree that the whole system is TOTALLY UNFIT for the purpose of following climatic temperatures.

        Maybe useful for a vague idea of urban or airport temperatures, though.

        Thanks.

        We all know that. Good to see you finally catching up a little bit.

        Tiny steps. !!

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        • #
          AndyG55

          And even some of the ACORN2 sites are unfit for purpose. !

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Still doing the barking? All I see is baseless assertions.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            Thanks for admitting you cannot counter my facts.

            Guidelines have not been met.. proven fact.

            ..nearly 45% of sites used are substandard, NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE.. proven fact

            Many of them would only be relevant for the weather in about a 20m radius around them.

            Stop your pathetic trolling attempts.

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            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              what facts? you confuse weather with climate, those stations you mention are weather stations, and are doing an adequate job of recording the local weather. The are not used in either the climate or weather models as I have shown you the relevant links on countless occasions. You , however, along with your denial fo CO2 as a greenhouse gas, refuse to admit what is an incontrovertible fact. Further you continue to assert, without any reference to any proof that SkS is wrong.

              Again what facts, you know things that are independently verifiable and come from a respected source

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              • #
                AndyG55

                Distraction and LIES, petty trolling

                All you have..

                UNFIT-FOR-PURPOSE sites are used for homogenisation.

                You have NO EVIDENCE of warming by atmospheric CO2.

                You are too ignorant to comprehend the meaning of a PROVEN stable thermal gradient

                CO2 is a RADIATIVE gas.. get your scientific terminology correct, for once. !!

                Yes it is used in greenhouses to enhance plant growth, but there is NO EVIDENCE that it causes any warming or traps any energy in the atmosphere.

                You really are going flat-out to display just how much AGW BS you have swallowed, aren’t you.

                In think you must be morphing into a dung beetle, you are so full of BS.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Facts?

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              • #
                AndyG55

                “Facts?”

                You have NONE, you know that. !!

                Everybody knows that.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                ” The are not used”

                And you have been shown that ACORN2 lists them as homogenisation sites.

                You really are turning up your “stupid” today, aren’t you

                Desperation setting in ???

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              • #
                AndyG55

                CO2 is a radiative gas, “greenhouse gas” is a made-up term..

                like human made-up “climate change”.

                We are STILL WAITING for your empirical evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2.!!!

                Atmosphere is in thermal equilibrium..

                PROVEN by data from 20 million weather balloons

                Gravity based thermal gradient RULES

                There is no “greenhouse effect”

                Get over it. !!

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              • #
                el gordo

                ‘You, however, along with your denial for CO2 as a greenhouse gas, refuse to admit what is an incontrovertible fact.’

                All of us here acknowledge that CO2 is an ineffective greenhouse gas. On the other hand we know that H2O, another greenhouse gas, is more effective at controlling temperature.

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              • #
                Deplorable Lord Kek

                Further you continue to assert, without any reference to any proof that SkS is wrong.

                Again what facts, you know things that are independently verifiable and come from a respected source

                Your own link demonstrated that they do not understand basic scientific method.

                But that is just par for the course for alarmism, isn’t it.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                not shown that they are used for the ACORN2 sites, and there is nowhere on the BOM Site that contradicts this. BOM does say that it will adjust a weather record, where that record is outside the expected range for a station on a day – that is data integrity it is not homogenization. however, since you are unable to process facts or link to references, what have you got – I know, name calling and shouting.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                Yes, listed as homogenisation site

                Using data that is known to be unfit for purpose, that is BOM’s thing

                And no, it is a total lack of integrity.

                Not you would have a clue what integrity was, having none.

                Since you are totally unable to even find a single piece of empirical evidence of CO2 warming, you have nothing.

                In fact, you have worse than nothing.

                You are actually helping us to prove that fact.

                All we ever get from you is plaintive mewling.

                And a total lack of comprehension, science, logic or human morality.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            [SNIP]

            Too many ad homs. Please commenters, report Ad Homs to support AT joannenova.com.au and they will be removed. Anyone repeatedly needing snipping will *not* be able to keep posting. – Jo

            [All posters need to self snip. If other posters are being bad mannered by being dishonest, hypocrites, hijacking threads, baiting or other troll behaviours, then report the pattern of comments to moderators. Don't take their bait and give them what they want -- rude replies. - Jo]

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          • #
            sophocles

            [SNIP!]

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            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              Is that the best you can do, Sophocles? Really? I answered a question from Bill – common courtesy would have waited until he had answered. Or is that something ancient greeks did away with?

              [snip]ED

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            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              I answered a question from Bill – common courtesy would have waited until he had answered.

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              • #
                sophocles

                Really? You can — and do — jump in with flapping mouth with no consideration nor any such courtesy.
                But thank you, Peater, for the laugh. I nearly fell off my chair.

                Pot: meet Kettle.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                I answered a question from Bill – common courtesy would have waited until he had answered. but you – straight to the insults

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              • #
                sophocles

                That’s 107 scientific papers which also just happen to disprove Peater’s loud and oft repeated claims over the last few weeks about how it’s all Klimate Change behind those fires. I like that: 107 papers … saying No. It’s not. :-D

                If you want to go crawl under a rock for having made a fool of yourself Peater, we’ll be nice about it — we won’t come looking for you. Promise.
                107 papers. Yes!.

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        Bill In Oz

        Fitz, you have replied but clearly you have not taken in the gravity of the BOM’s stuff up!

        1 : As Andy says data from lots of these non Acorn stations are used to adjust ACORN station observations.

        2 : You also are clearly NOT aware that many of the ACORN weather stations are not fir for purpose. In all of South Australia only three are fit for purpose. The rest of these precious ACORN stations frankly FAIL to measure temperature accurately.

        3: If you look through the list of 326 Failed stations, you will indeed find some which because of their location cannot ever be considered very reliable. But most FAIL simply because of BOM’s incompetence. And that you seem to be unable to see at all

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          I just look at the Adelaide 23090 in both kens kingdom and BOM – I could find no reference to Ken’s claims that BOM acknowledge that it is affected by UHI, nor can I find any other reason to fail it.

          Again I’ve agreed that the pure weather stations are of poor quality, I will stand on the ACORN sites though.

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          • #
            Deplorable Lord Kek

            I just look at the Adelaide 23090 in both kens kingdom and BOM – I could find no reference to Ken’s claims that BOM acknowledge that it is affected by UHI, nor can I find any other reason to fail it.

            “There are no buildings or roads in the immediate vicinity (within 10 m) of the site, which is near a back street and away from heavy traffic, but it is still a built-up area.”

            http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/data/acorn-sat/stations/#/23090

            That page is linked to from here:

            https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2019/08/02/the-wacky-world-of-weather-stations-no-7-adelaide-sa/

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          • #
            Bill In Oz

            Clearly you do not know Adelaide.
            The Kent Town weather station is in an inner eastern suburb
            And in a small fenced off area with roads on three sides.
            There is lot’s of UHI effect.
            The Adelaide Airport weather station May be ‘marginal’.
            Ground access to non BOM folk it is impossible due to access restrictions.

            As for all the BOM sites sites, I cannot you have even looked at them .
            Each takes time to read & digest and then check according to the supporting evidence which is always there for each post. For me it’s about 20-30 minutes each.
            And you claim to have examined all of them ?
            Pull the other one Fitz !

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          • #
            Deplorable Lord Kek

            nor can I find any other reason to fail it.

            “any central city location is automatically not compliant with bucket loads of UHI, but the BOM while acknowledging this still use Adelaide and other capitals to homogenise other sites.”

            same page:

            https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2019/08/02/the-wacky-world-of-weather-stations-no-7-adelaide-sa/

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          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Peter Fitzroy:

            Try doing some searching. The BoM admitted that the Kent Town site was warmer than the original West Terrace site – they couldn’t do other with years of data proving it (and don’t ask for a reference, do some some actual work for once). Now they have the new West Terrace site (which isn’t actually on West Terrace).
            As for the Kent Town site I was appalled when I saw it. Apart from the cramped surroundings it had a multistory building at one end and constant car movements in the adjacent street.
            And if you had actually read Ken’s Kingdom posts you would have seen that he usually lists the sites where the data from the site is used to “adjust” their readings.
            Either you are a slipshod poseur or a ratbag troll.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            “BOM acknowledge that it is affected by UHI”

            Why would BOM acknowledge the UHI effect, they NEED it, so they can show warming. !

            Your ignorance of basic site guidelines is so noted.

            Denial of massive UHI effect in cities..

            … against all science, measurement, common sense,.. so funny.

            But you are a huge DENIER of real science, aren’t you.

            Have to be, to keep your fantasy alive.

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          • #
            WXcycles

            Kens text:

            Adelaide’s UHI does not prevent it from being one of the sites used to adjust temperatures at ACORN-SAT sites at Port Lincoln, Nuriootpa, and Ceduna. Acorn sites are used for climate analysis- whether winters are getting warmer and summers hotter for example. So the lack of quality at any site DOES MATTER!

            https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2019/08/02/the-wacky-world-of-weather-stations-no-7-adelaide-sa/

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            • #
              AndyG55

              Useful for measuring the current day’s temperature at that particular enclosed site.

              But totally irrelevant to anywhere else, or any other time present or past.

              Hence, perfect for BOM “climate change™” work. ;-)

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  • #
    RoHa

    We’ll all be rooned.

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  • #
    Graeme Bird

    You see the rain coming off the hills. The hills should be green again soon for the first time in months. But then you see all this water running down the roads and into drains. Its a terrible shame really. The water so efficiently transported away from where it is needed. If the hills had been swaled up to saturation and the gulleys had check dams, to direct the water into the swales, then that water would have been soaked under the ground.

    So we see the rain and its praise the lord and all that. But its sad to have a years worth of water slip through our fingers this way. And then think of this global warming smokescreen and how this is yet another way its deflecting attention from the real problems.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      If you do contouring or make swales, you have to be careful not to create a pool more than 1cm deep, otherwise the greenies will accuse you of damming the water flow. !! ;-)

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      • #
        Graeme Bird

        There is a lot of truth to that joke. And I expect libertarians to be against a lot of the things I’m advocating just on general principles. But what I didn’t expect is to see such incredible opposition on leftists sites. I mean these people, supposedly think that more CO2 is an existential threat. And so taking them at their word; you know trying to meet people halfway, you talk to them about how relatively easy it would be to start all this soil development, subsequent to land hydration. Its worse than just lacking interest. They are against solutions. I think thats why they hate thorium so much. There is a chance it could actually work. Thats kind of like spoiling their whole party.

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      • #
        sophocles

        so weirs are out of the question?

        You’ve got some real idiots in the public service, if that’s the case.

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        • #
          Graeme Bird

          Weirs are super-cool. If they are up-river from the town. Weirs to a river are akin to check-dams for the gulleys. We cannot really get enough of any of this stuff.

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  • #
    Graeme No.3

    Interesting article on no tricks zone about sea levels being metres higher in the past (in Qld in one of the papers).
    https://notrickszone.com/2020/01/16/19-papers-published-in-2019-affirm-sea-levels-were-meters-higher-than-today-4-8-thousand-years-ago/

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    • #
      AndyG55

      Rock platforms along the eastern seaboard show about 1-1.5m higher around the MWP.

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    • #
      sophocles

      Brooke et al., 2019
      and if you download it through the notrickzone link, you get the whole paper.
      (html but pdf is also freely available)

      GPS and sea stands (tidal erosion `shelves’ at the then sea stand height) make it a hard paper to refute. :-D

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      • #
        sophocles

        To quote Notrickszone further:

        There were 107 scientific papers published this past year indicating today’s warmth isn’t even close to being unusual or unprecedented when compared to the climates of the last centuries to millennia.

        … there were also 19 papers affirming today’s sea levels are among the lowest of the last ~8000 years.

        This is added to the list of nearly 100 scientific papers published in the last handful of years indicating Mid-Holocene sea levels were multiple meters higher than they are today due to the much more extensive glacier and ice sheet melt occuring during these millennia.

        Climate crisis? What crisis?
        Scomo can take his time: there’s no urgency to act at all. He’s really going to have to call the Coprocephalics and Panickers out.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        I see that they use C14/C12 ratio – which everyone rejects for the atmosphere, so why would you accept it now?

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        • #
          Graeme Bird

          Do you have any evidence for CO2-warming Peter?

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        • #
          Bill In Oz

          BOM’s failed Weather stations Fitz ?

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          • #
            AndyG55

            He thinks its totally ok to use unfit-for-purpose sites to homogenise other sites, so a trend can be created.

            But then , as we all know, his grasp of actual scientific integrity (or any sort of integrity or morality) is basically non-existant.

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        • #
          AndyG55

          Sorry you are so confused about actual science.

          Your attitude to LEARNING means you are destined to stay that way for the rest of your life.

          Lets add GEOLOGY to the huge list of things you are totally clueless about, shall we.

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        • #
          sophocles

          Now think about this carefully:

          They were trying to determine the dates using old (too old for eating) oysters. The oysters grew there while the water level was high and covered the tidal shelf. In other words, the oysters were Life Form residue. The rocks had been there for probably millions of years before the oysters arrived, so there was no point dating them (you use Ar40/Ar39 for dating non-organic materials like rock). Because they were or rather had been organo-life forms, the oysters absorbed Carbon (both 14 and 12) and they were also relatively recent so that was the easiest and best way to date them. So that’s why C14/C12 dating was used.

          Carbon is readily absorbed and easily measured. Carbon/Carbon dating though is not really really exact. They’re still working on that but progress is being made. It’s a bit of a broad brush but in most cases it’s good enough. They needed to know when the ledges had last been used, so they needed to find and date the remains of life forms which had used them. So that’s what they did.

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    Graeme Bird

    On another thread Dennis linked a 70′s study of burning versus grazing as a way of fire reduction. The study was a short one I think. But it showed decisively, in the view of the authors, that the fuel reduction and fire hazard reduction was a lot more lasting than grazing. And I think thats right. Well why do I think thats right? Its because after a couple of burns, this tactic ends up reducing the quality of the soil. Whereas with grazing in this context, the soil quality is increased. Thus leading to a bounce-back in the fuel.

    What are we aspiring to here? What are our goals? A civilisation is only as good as its soil and we are right now in a kind of delayed death-blow. The study was only a short study. But supposing it had gone on for thirty years? Then the soil in these woodlands would be carbon-rich and spongy. And the trees would be a bit more resistant to fire. Plus if accompanied by some logging, and land hydration techniques, we are looking at a different type of woodland. A dry woodland becomes a wet woodland with a spongy soil that can suck up the rain when it arrives. And be less prone to these runaway fires.

    So I think if we are in it for the long haul, though we need to step up the burning right now, we should be aspiring to a higher calling. Green the deserts. Make a more robust nature. Have that rich dark soil everywhere.

    This hydrocarbon industry is great and its only going to keep growing. But it will plateau at some point, and the blessed CO2 release may begin to drop away on its own, without leftist assistance. This time period now is the right one to reconstitute these soils. We have this source of carbon for many decades to come. We want to take this opportunity to make the soil better than its ever been in the history of the planet.

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    pat

    lengthy, but I stopped reading when I got to the cost – $5trillion:

    18 Jan: AFR: The path to zero emissions is expensive – but not impossible
    Don’t despair – we have the technology to beat climate change without turning out the lights or giving up our lifestyle.
    by Angus Grigg, National Affairs Correspondent
    As his train passes through Philadelphia, Saul Griffith sketches out a plan for Australia to take the fight to climate change.
    The Sydney-born entrepreneur, who now lives in the US, has won plaudits and garnered an increasingly large profile in his adopted country for an optimistic message that says climate change can be overcome.
    It won’t be done through stainless steel water bottles or keep cups, but according to the man with a doctorate from MIT, who has worked for NASA and sold a company to Google, it’s simply an engineering problem…

    “Australia could be the first nation on earth of significant size to go completely carbon free,” he says…
    This is a giant ask given two-thirds of Australia’s electricity is generated from coal and gas, while moving the share of renewables up towards 25 per cent has caused “anarchy” in the grid, according to Kerry Schott, chair of the Energy Security Board.
    At the same time, coal and LNG are among Australia’s biggest exports.
    Undeterred, Griffith says the path to zero emissions could be done through “electrifying” the household…

    The only obstacle – and it’s a very large one – is cost and the sheer scale of investment and re-ordering of priorities required.

    ***Griffith puts the total cost at about $5 trillion to decarbonise Australia over two decades and likens it to the level of spending undertaken during World War II…READ ON
    https://www.afr.com/policy/energy-and-climate/the-path-to-zero-emissions-is-expensive-but-not-impossible-20200116-p53s7d

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      sophocles

      Saul Griffith sketches out a plan for Australia to take the fight to climate change.

      Why? There is no point attacking or “taking the fight to” a non-problem — an invention, and not even a hypothesis.
      It’s also a heck of a lot cheaper!

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  • #
    Graeme Bird

    Fire everywhere one month. Flooded paddocks the next. That doesn’t show much evidence for the shaping of the land, for the benefit of man and nature. What happens is our banks lend their ponzi money at low interest to buy land. Then they turn usurious when it comes to funds to improve and shape the land. They are Ponzi with non-wealth creating lending, and usurious when it comes to wealth creation. There’s market failure right there.

    So new farmers tend to have more land than they can handle, given the funds they can subsequently get hold of. So they spend the rest of the time either in overwork or with a feeling of paralysis and a knot in their stomach thinking about their interest payments. Its not a scenario conducive to the continuous improvement of the land. The land by and large isn’t being tarted up for resilience. So we wind up having to bail these guys out a lot. But only en masse. As individuals they can go under with despair and stress, and only when an emergency is declared do they get some sort of bailout going. Its a completely dysfunctional situation. If land hydration were over-emphasised, the fragility would no longer be there, and they could stand and fall on their own merits.

    Identifying market failure should be easy enough. Think of the real estate industry. Is more debt leading to lower rental prices? No. So thats market failure. If more debt doesn’t lead to falling prices and better quality, like in the computer industry, then we haven’t got it right. Thats not the only test but it is one test. And the idea is to take each industry and manage and guide it for a few years, to where its a functioning industry, that can be left under libertarian conditions and produce good outcomes.

    If it doesn’t look kind of like this in 100 years time we are doing it wrong

    https://i0.wp.com/travellingboomer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Bali-rice-terrace-final.jpg

    Personally I like the idea of the trees on steep banks, the grasses and water features on the terraces. Rather than a terrace only situation. But still this is decades away. And the main thing to start off with are the swales to capture all the rain and send it under the surface. Thats the way to start. No more floods and droughts.

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    • #
      RoHa

      “What happens is our banks lend their ponzi money at low interest to buy land. Then they turn usurious when it comes to funds to improve and shape the land. ”

      And who do you think sent the arsonists out?

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      • #
        Graeme Bird

        I lack the power of second sight. But thats a fine point. I haven’t seen any actual signs of deliberate strategic action have you? Except the idea that there are so many willing free-lance arsonists out there. Thats a pretty odd idea you would have to say? So your implicit suggestion cannot be ruled out. But its your suggestion not mine.

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  • #
    ferdinand

    Is H2O the sames as CO2 – ? Greta

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    Mick

    One month ago the BOM said there would be no significant rain until at least April. There has been a deluge of rain.They have no idea when it comes to forecasting 1 month ahead yet we are expected to believe the apocalypse forecasts for the planet decades away. The doomsayers have serious issues. Unfortunately they have been listened to and hundreds of billions of dollars have been wasted on the mistaken belief that humans can control the Earth’s climate. The world has gone mad.

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