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Billion dollar bully ABC resorts to namecalling for the nightly news

The first words of the nightly 7pm news Jan 15th:

” The Government tells Climate Change Deniers to stop arguing and accept The Science.”

ABC Prime Time News in Australia this week stooped to abject petty namecalling — claiming those despised climate change deniers are robbing Australia again. In reality, the people robbing Australia work for the ABC. If they only had evidence they wouldn’t need to stomp all over debate.

And in the ABC website:

Climate change deniers robbing Australia of time to respond to impacts, Science Minister Karen Andrews warns”

Yet the government said nothing that insulting.

In other non-news — the Australian Science Minister obediently repeated a twenty year old robot meme that Al Gore invented. Unlike what the ABC headline and wording suggests, it doesn’t appear Karen Andrews mentioned “deniers”. That profoundly unscientific and inflammatory activist term seems to be all the ABC’s. And they call themselves “reporters”?

The formerly esteemed journal Nature did it once, and after I pointed out how unscientific it is, they backed down.

What the Minister for Science said:

Those who are still debating whether climate change is real are wasting time.

The people wasting out time are the ones using vague, ill defined, unscientific terms to discuss the end of a debate that never began. What’s “climate change” mean to the listeners? Anything they like. What’s a denier, who knows, but it has the brain of a lizard.

It’s pure namecalling. It’s a science debate yet no one can define a “climate change denier” scientifically — what observations does a climate change denier deny?  The original meaning of “denier” in 1475 was to deny God. Five hundred years later and nothing much has changed except to replace denial of one church with denial of other (or any sub part or sub-clause of the 10,000 page IPCC commandments.)

So the evidence is overwhelming, and has been settled for 100 years, but somehow Australians needed to hear this lite-tripe in their 7pm news?

Let’s accept that the climate has changed, the climate is changing.

 Lordy I believe in ice ages…!

Between them, not one meaningful new concept was raised, no policy point was moved forwards. No one learnt anything except what they are allowed to say in polite company. It’s just a fashion update.

Andrews is naively hoping that capitulation will get the attack dogs off her back, but  all it does is give them more to work with. Now the ABC and Labor Party (co-dependents in politics) can manufacture headlines saying how there is division in the Liberal Party, that even conservative MP’s “accept climate change is real”. They can isolate the real threats like Craig Kelly who they paint as marginalized, even though he’s the most popular conservative MP on Facebook, possibly even more popular than Scott Morrison, and definitely more popular than the opposition leader:

Liberal MP Craig Kelly outperforms Scott Morrison, Anthony Albanese on Facebook

Sydney Morning Herald:  Mr Kelly – who denies the link between human activity and climate change, … – uses his Facebook page to question climate science and spruik the coal industry on a daily basis.

Although the backbench MP has only 38,000 “fans” on the social media platform, compared to 231,000 for Mr Morrison and 124,000 for Mr Albanese, he regularly outperforms both men on engagement – particularly the number of people sharing his content.

Since July 1, there have been 1.33 million interactions involving Mr Kelly’s page, compared to 1.26 million for Mr Morrison and 720,000 for Mr Albanese. Mr Kelly regularly outperforms the Prime Minister, and there have only been three weeks since July 1 when the Opposition Leader had more interactions than Mr Kelly.

 

The term “climate change” is deliberately vague. Everyone agrees with the literal meaning of the words climate and change which means some kind of religious belief that humans have a convenient dial to control storms, clouds, rain, heatwaves and the sea, that they know what exact temperature “earth” should be, and that we can also measure that accurately, and that all countries agree on that particular level of storms and heat and sea level.

The ABC is afraid of debate. The Science Minister is afraid the ABC will mock her, but they already are, and this only feeds the bun-fest.

Hence both are happy with an interview where no one says anything except 20 year old propaganda lines.

Hook, line, stinker.

In the Iview WA News edition UK readers will be amused to hear that ” in the United Kingdom action on Climate Change is largely bipartisan. Boris Johnson took an ambitious climate target to an election and won. (2:45). Since Australians have added more renewables per capita than anywhere in the world, including the UK, and that’s been done by a conservative government here, “what’s the difference”.

Presumably the BBC says the same about Australians.

Defining “denier”. Is it English or Newspeak?

————————————————————–

LATE ADDITION: Karen Andrews should know better, being a former Mechanical Engineering from QUT. (These Queensland universities have a lot to answer for.)

What the Science Minister said (blah blah, strawman, blah.)

Australia is wasting time debating the merits of climate change and should instead focus its attention on responding to the impacts it is having on the country, a senior Liberal minister has warned.

Science Minister Karen Andrews said it was time to move on from ideological battles, which she said had robbed the nation of the time and energy needed to respond to climate change.

“Every second that we spend talking about whether or not the climate is changing is a second that we are not spending on looking at adaptation [and] mitigation strategies,” she said.

“It really is time for everyone to move on and look at what we’re going to do.”

Ms Andrews, a former engineer, said the science on climate change was settled.


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Rating: 9.8/10 (106 votes cast)
Billion dollar bully ABC resorts to namecalling for the nightly news, 9.8 out of 10 based on 106 ratings

468 comments to Billion dollar bully ABC resorts to namecalling for the nightly news

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    That is all they have and they are going to triple down on it even if it kills them.

    461

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      The ABC claims to ‘know’ is based only on ‘evidence’ from the BOM

      But the BOM’s evidence is flawed.Such a claim MUST be based on ACCURATE observations of the temperature. And here in Australia the main mob doing that is the BOM.

      The BOM claims to have ‘evidence’ of Warming in Australia based on observations from it’s network of 720 weather stations across Australia.

      However roughly 48% of those weather stations have now been shown to be producing INACCURATE temperature observations.

      The evidence for this inaccuracy can be found here : https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/
      I’ve been helping Ken Stewart in a minor way for the past 6 months examine in detail every one of the bOM’s weather stations.
      There is a global set of scientific guidelines to ensure accurate measurement of temperatures. These guidelines are developed & set by the WMO.

      The BOM has in theory adopted these guidelines. Or rather it claims to have done so decades ago.
      In fact there are 326 BOM weather stations which do not currently meet those guidelines.

      What does this mean for the BOM’s claims about a warming climate ?

      If the observations are NOT accurate, then no accurate honest claims can be made based on them.
      Trying to do so is GI GO or Garbage in =Garbage Out.

      BOM unfortunately in using these inaccurate temperature observations to develop it’s Global warming fairy tale, has betrayed the trust of the Australian people.

      It has betrayed OUR trust in it’s integrity & honesty !

      Despite this betrayal, the ABC has decided that we must all be indoctrinated that there is a global emergency. It has become a propaganda broadcasting corporation paid for by us taxpayers.

      Both the BOM & the ABC ideogues deserve the sack & the boot !

      421

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        And the BoM predicted no heavy rain on the east coast before April.

        They should use that supercomputer for more useful tasks, like picking the winner of the Melbourne Cup.

        270

        • #
          sophocles

          … the BoM would get even that wrong! :-D

          80

        • #

          In fact, there may be no heavy rain for some.

          Anyone notice the BoM not properly registering local falls? To cover the problems with automated gauges (or the advantages?) results are now italicised to indicate “Not quality controlled”.

          Year before last I had to contact friends frequenting the airport to find out if there had been a mysterious flood which had occurred nowhere else but at the weather station. Last year a heavy fall went missing. Now I note that the generous rain of the last few days has registered as 3mm.

          It’s always possible to have these local anomalies (such as some heavy rain which really did fall on a very limited area late last year) but one has to doubt anomalies indicating floods or very little rain when the weather in question is all up and down the coast and ranges.

          Give me a drunken post master or sleepy lighthouse keeper over an automated gauge. It looks like rainfall statistics – among the least wonky statistics available – are going to be sent wonky by automation. We can already forget about them. They’re down the sink.

          This objection will be lost on those educated by ticking boxes and answering true/false. For some, once any number goes official it’s meat for grinding into what they call “science”. And then they publish, gawd ‘elp us.

          180

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            Momosomo, as Ken ( with me as side kick ) were looking at the BOM’s weather stations, the issue of rainfall observations occasionally came up.. At one point I suggested he ( we ) look at them as well as temperature observations.

            However there are real problems doing this. There are far more rainfall weather stations than temperature weather stations..Which means doing a detailed examination would take far more time & effort & energy : ie unpaid work mostly by Ken ! Ummmmm ?

            But I did check out one BOM rainfall station at Hahndorf here in the Adelaide hills..Just for a peak ! And found that it is located under a huge oak tree in someone’s back yard ! I’m surprised it ever registered any rain at all ! Just one unselected example !

            But maybe there are keen individuals who want to get this job done also ! I hope so. Put a comment on Ken’s blog : https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2020/01/12/the-wacky-world-of-weather-stations-by-state/

            70

        • #

          no they didn’t. Read what they wrote.

          211

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Listen buster, you need to read what the IPCC wrote:

            The globally averaged combined land and ocean surface temperature data as calculated by a linear trend, show a warming of 0.85 [0.65 to 1.06] °C, over the period 1880 to 2012, when multiple independently produced datasets exist.

            The total increase between the average of the 1850–1900 period and the 2003–2012 period is 0.78 [0.72 to 0.85] °C, based on the single longest dataset available (see Figure SPM.1). {2.4}”

            https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/WG1AR5_SPM_FINAL.pdf

            The single longest dataset, 0.78 C° over 112 years. Or more is you take the start of the average for 1850 -1900 and the end of the average for 2003-2012; that is 162 years.

            0.78C° over 162 years.

            The ABC is a green joke and you are its useful idiot.

            92

        • #
          WXcycles

          After the current rain there’s a lack of the sort of tropical weather which would promote heavy rainfall over the north, which could drag moisture and lows southward. The tropics are looking too placid, few tropical waves, the significant weather is mid-latitude. There may be patchy cumulative 150 to 250 mm storm falls either side of the QLD/NSW border this week but rainfall over the north outside of scattered thunderstorms looks weak. A low spinning-up in the Gulf of Carpentaria and moving south overland is what we need, with this current seasonal pattern, but there’s no sign of that yet. One more month of low rainfall and this wet-season will largely be a bust.

          50

      • #
        sophocles

        AR6 is due out from the IPCC soon (next year, 2021?). I’m watching to see if the Propaganda Busters (the North American Universities including Princeton Yale and Harvard) have had any effect. I, for one, have noticed the last two or three years have been very quiet from that quarter. But, then, I’m an optimist.

        60

      • #
        Another Ian

        Bill

        Toss this into the mix

        “The Megacities Are Cooking”

        https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/16/the-cities-are-cooking/

        30

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Thanks very much for that Ian !
          An excellent post well worth reading especially as Willi includes all the heat in cities that is a result of using energy in them. This is actually a truly unique capacity which humans have. We gather energy from the sun, from fossil fuels, from wood, from the Earth’s interior ( geothermal) , even from gravity via hydro electric plants.. WE transport all that energy to our cities and suburbs and we use it in those locations. And of course the result is heat.

          (A basic example : all the heat pouring out of our vehicle exhausts or A/C units or heaters )

          And of course our cities are always warmer than the country side beyond the urban fringe.

          I know this as I live on the edge of Mt Barker with paddocks across the road.It’s always cooler at my place that in the town center 2 ks away.

          PS Willi has got Buenos Aires wrong. The Federal capital area of BA’s has 3 million people. The maga city of BA’s has over 13 millions..The suburbs have sprawled into Buenos Aires province. And it’s always hotter there than in the pampas beyond the mega city’s edge.

          20

      • #
        Mark

        ABC = Australians Becoming Communists
        BOM = Bureau Of Manipulations

        60

        • #
          Mark

          ABC = Australians Becoming Communists
          BOM = Bureau Of Manipulations
          CSIRO = Can’t Stand Intelligent Rational Objections

          50

        • #
          william x

          Mark, you forgot about this

          IPCC = Idealists Proposing Countries Cede… to them the UN

          40

  • #
    AndyG55

    Quite frankly, m’dear, I don’t give a damn..

    … what some low-life leftist scientifically ignorant journalist says.

    We know they LIE and distort what people have actually said.

    We know that are NOTHING more than far-left operatives.

    Wasn’t there a count that found some 80% of ABC workers voted greens !!

    Time for the government to realise that Appeasement only makes the enemy strong.

    And the ABC is most certainly an enemy of the people.

    600

    • #
      el gordo

      Aunty looks a lot like China Daily, so we should know pretty soon whether we have a semblance of democracy still operating.

      Morrison needs to do a reshuffle, sack the Environment Minister and Science Minister and replace them with men of substance.

      We also need a Royal Commission into the bushfires, which must cover climate change. Then a BoM audit as part of the natural progression, followed by the dismantling of the ABC.

      360

      • #
        bobl

        As a point on this, assuming we get a royal commission we need to consider what public submissions should contain. El Gordo makes the salient point that when we write our submissions we should ensure that the BOM malfeasance over ACORN is investigated by the commission.

        The big problem with ACORN is that there is one man that manages it- IE there is a “GATEKEEPER” who is an clear activist. While this is the case ACORN will not get better, ACORN must be overseen by an independent committee, not an individual.

        While ACORN is wrong, we can’t get good policy, we can’t properly dimension climate impacts on bushfires (Of which there are almost none – proven by the fact that the Victorian bushfires are largely in the alpine region where it is COLD). If we cant relegate global temperature to the third tier impact that it almost certainly is, then bushfire policy will be wrong by aggrandising useless renewable energy and EVs and we will make things worse by ignoring the real problems – Fuel, Firebreak clearances (Green council nuttery), Arson, and water availability.

        So thanks El Gordo for making this point

        300

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Not going to happen. If a RC goes ahead, it’s terms of reference will be setup to prevent discussions such as these.

          110

          • #
            el gordo

            Narrow terms of reference, did AGW exacerbate this bushfire season? Has it been unprecedented because of climate change?

            Call up BoM hierarchy, CSIRO boffins and academics like Karoly, Ashcroft and Gergis to give their enlightened opinion under oath. In this quasi judicial atmosphere they cannot use the precautionary principle.

            80

            • #
              Graeme#4

              As much as most of the folks here would like to see this happen, I believe that we need to realise it won’t occur.

              50

        • #
          Another Ian

          “The big problem with ACORN is that there is one man that manages it- IE there is a “GATEKEEPER” who is an clear activist. ”

          So they learned from Wikipedia?

          Maybe check that person’s name?

          20

      • #
        hatband

        The potential upside is that if Australia adopted China’s China First Policies, then the ABC

        could make itself useful by it’s support.

        The fact that Australia’s Super Funds have been allowed to plough money into Renewables places

        the average worker in an impossible bind, on the one hand seeing his

        employment opportunities shrivel

        up, while on the other, not wanting to jeopardise that Pot of Gold at the End of that ever

        lengthening rainbow.

        Thanks, Hawke & Keating.

        Thanks, Swan.

        101

      • #
        Graeme#4

        What good can be achieved by yet another RC into bushfires? All that’s happened from previous bushfire RCs is that the state governments have ignored their recommendations, or the recommendations have been gradually watered down by local councils and the influence of ecologists.

        160

        • #
          el gordo

          The RC will show clearly that green tape and arsonists were behind this bushfire season and there maybe a recommendation that ‘cool burning’ practice should be considered. Also that the size of national parks be reduced substantially.

          Love the Wollemi story going the rounds.

          60

          • #
            Yonniestone

            Forget the RC idea we need a House Un-Australian Activities Committee (HUAC) to clean out all the Commie rats then dismantle all their ideology from government and institutions.

            60

    • #
      robert rosicka

      The ABC never lets the truth get between them and a good story , I was amazed the other day when they printed a story about high fuel loads and lack of fuel reduction burns .
      Ever since the fires started the truth was the first casualty as they scrambled for a Walkley .

      30

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    The ABCCCC and modern political institutions all the way down from the U.N. to local government councils are like a scum that floats on top of a pond and smothers it.

    We are a nation of three month smokos, courtesy of government avarice.

    Of closing industry and universities bursting at the seams with the unemployed. Empty shopfronts everywhere.

    Of schools teaching about rainbows or maybe just the idea of rainbows: anyhow, just go to uni and do a degree in rainbowism, or whatever.

    We are a nation which failed to look up and see the trees reaching in from both sides of the road and touching above us.

    We are a nation which failed to acknowledge that these trees would block our escape from the green fires.

    We are a nation which failed to pay tribute to the Two Hundred Fire victims of the last ten years and Fix The Problem.

    They died for nothing.

    After two hundred years of experience being ignored we need a political upheaval to return Australia to Ethical Governance.

    KK

    240

  • #
    TdeF

    One victim claimed that Morrison/the Government should have done more to stop Climate Change. So what more could they, should they have done have done?

    If our government had stopped the country dead in its tracks for five years, no industry,no travel, no food, cars, trucks, how would the bushfires have been different? There is no logical connection except the mantra Climate Change pushed by journalists while Australian scientists are silent. Even Flannery’s cabal of retired fire chiefs agree. It’s all Morrison’s fault.

    So for the utterly useless ABC/SBS/CSIRO/BOM, sell the lot. The Problem Solvers and Our ABC just want more cash to parrot their socialist/communist lines. There is no contribution to the truth, no debate, no informed opinion, just cant. So why are we paying them and more importantly, why do they exist? And councils want fireworks money sent to help bushfire victims? What about a few billion a year from selling or closing these useless businesses? What about the money being spent to prosecute scientists like Dr Peter Ridd for telling the truth.

    We could even turn on the desalination plants and give water to farmers instead of letting Chinese companies dig up our water and sell it to us. But then the animals might live and the ABC/SBS/CSIRO/BOM and councils think we are better off without animals. Especially the half billion who died in the Green fires we had to have.

    520

    • #
      Dennis

      And China is ignored.

      190

    • #
      sophocles

      The Anti-ScoMo campaign has made it over to NZ, I’m sorry to have to say.

      I purchased the latest New Zealand Listener (hereinafter known as The Rag) the other day — I wanted a cryptic crossword to burn — oops, not a good word, that one — to use up or squander, some time with. Drought is settling in around the North Island again. It had to go somewhere so we did out duty and took it away so you guys ‘n girls could get some rain :-D It will only be for about three months, maybe.

      Suddenly we’ve got TV `personalities’ demonstrating how we should make water available overnight for Kiwis, who are getting dehydrated and bending their beaks on hard dry ground. (I’ve noticed hedgehogs helping themselves to the lion’s share around my area; they drink their fill then upset the water container leaving nothing behind by walking/crawling through it). We’ve had reporters/staff on the TV telling us about tuis (too-ees) getting `stoned’ on high lead content water from roof tops in Wellington.

      (It seems time to strip the lead flashings from all Wellington’s churches … it ain’t gonna rain again, the drought has made it across the Tasman. Heatwaves will be next. If we do remove all that lead, we might save the next lot of politicians from going so nutty so quickly … it’s too late for the The Rag)

      The Rag has sadly morphed over recent years into a really rabidly nuttier than a North American Chipmunk, left wing Rag.

      Bill Ralston — one of it’s columnists — has shown his `advanced iggorance’ about Australia’s Federal structure and division of responsibilities, and is now singing — or rather chanting — the Bad Morrison Propaganda. The Rag’s editorial is rock solid on the Klimate Change side for the bush fires. I wonder how long it will take those idiots to recognise the physics of firestorms?

      1. A starting spark is necessary
      2. Lots and lots and lots of very dry fuel is needed.

      No, they won’t realise that. Too stupid. I have to wonder if any of those editorial staff have ever seen Australian dry-lightning storms. We don’t get those in NZ. Thunder and Lightning is almost always accompanied by torrential downpours. Maybe I should be counting the number of Eng Lit degrees on the editorial staff … or Bachelor of Emotional Communication ones. But then, Solidarity is more important: they couldn’t possibly ever criticise their fellow Idiots Greens in Australia.

      That’s could be what is behind Ralston’s Rantings. Solidarity. I don’t think many New Zealanders will realize Ralston’s Rantings are a crock of liquified dung and irrelevant to NZ.

      But: the cicadas still aren’t out. (They’re now five weeks late! Temperatures are slowly, oh so slowly, starting to climb. It was 25°C the other day!
      Won’t be long now! :-D

      One thing I have noticed about the persons singing these songs: there’s not a male among them. Too busy out there giving the Kiwis and the Tuis mouth-to-mouth resuscitation and cardio-pulmonary massage under da bosses orders, and beating the nocturnal predators (cats, rats, cats, stoats and cats) off the poor feathered things? :-D

      The crossword hasn’t been started yet. I had better go and get on with it … get some small value out of what was otherwise a huge waste of money.

      160

      • #
        sophocles

        I forgot to add Strong winds for the perfect storm. Sorry, I’ll go do that crossword… honest!

        90

      • #
        Mark

        Know where you’re coming from sophocles. I love a good cryptic crossword but unfortunately the only good one I can find is in THE AGE. The cryptic crossword is the only decent thing about this paper, the rest is just leftie, climate change propaganda. I can never read that paper without ending up absolutely furious at the amount of climate change b/s they print. It’s so bad that I can’t read the bloody thing sitting up straight as I always find my posture develops a distinct left lean. If the left lean gets any worse, which it will, I will end up horizontal. I’m convinced they go out on the streets trying to find any one who agrees with their climate change beliefs and gets them to write an article about it whilst promoting them as experts. I’m just waiting for the inevitable headline to appear – “Indisputable proof of climate change – My dog just crapped on the nature strip” Don’t laugh!!!! Guarantee you will see it first in The Age.

        30

  • #
    Dennis

    Can anybody explain to me why the Environmental Protection Agencies have not dealt with “carbon pollution” and the polluters?

    Stop debating and charge those sources of Carbon.

    sarc.

    70

    • #
      bobl

      I already told them they can dump as much carbon on my front lawn as they can truck in – with one stipulation. I want it in the most compact crystalline form – for convenient storage of course. Not one truckload has arrived despite my most generous offer.

      Just goes to show the blind ignorance out there, we are not talking about CARBON at all but Carbon Dioxide which is essential to all life on this planet, – for those that may really think that “CARBON POLLUTION” is a thing – Carbon dioxide is where our FOOD and Oxygen comes from – it is not therefore a pollutant and is NOT declared as such by the EPA. CO2 is almost at plant starvation levels in our atmosphere and 1500PPMv CO2 would be much safer for the “Planet’s” life forms than the dangerously low value of 410PPMv that we have now.

      340

      • #
        nb

        I got in first. They are dumping all that rotten crystal at my place. No need to reply. I’m off to Monaco.

        80

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        James Bond – and Shirley Bassey – knew it:

        Diamonds Are Forever.

        Even Marilyn Monroe knew it:

        Diamonds Are A Girl’s Best Friend.

        Pink Floyd also showed their knowledge with:

        Shine On You Crazy Diamond.

        Hope your truckload of ‘pollution’ arrives soon . . .

        140

      • #
        sophocles

        I wouldn’t mind a heap of the gritty black stuff. It’ll smoke out the neighbours — the ones with all the other smoky winter fires. :-D

        (You would think people would learn to burn wood cleanly … but no. Some take several attempts, some never succeed.)

        My stipulations for the black stuff are:
        – must be at least 350MY old
        – broken into lumps no bigger than half my fist
        – less than 0.1% powder
        – NO processed stuff.

        Wet or dry, doesn’t matter. It will be stored in a dry place …

        Speaking of atmospheric content of The Gas of Life:
        it got down to a scary 190ppmv 20,000 years ago. That was just a bit close, by my reckoning. If less than 150ppmv is planetary death, we need a decent buffer for the next glaciation and most certainly for the incoming geomagnetic excursion. That will probably get here well before the next glaciation.

        80

  • #
    Dennis

    December 2015 Paris Conference ended.

    Maurice Strong, Climate Crook

    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2015/12/discovering-maurice-strong/

    70

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    “The term “climate change” is deliberately vague.”

    Hence why I substitute climate change with [global warming] where ever possible as suggested by the late Professor Bob Carter.

    130

    • #
      TdeF

      And now it’s ocean warming. Not atmospheric warming because it’s not.

      140

      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        I believe that it was some chinese mob that put out a report the other day (heard on ABC of course) regarding ocean warming and the equivalent heat of millions atom bombs going into the oceans. Of course they’d know all about warming wouldn’t they ?!
        GeoffW

        40

      • #
        sophocles

        That only the sun can do. I reject all charges of aiding and abetting that thing: it’s big enough to look after itself.

        70

      • #
        Mark

        They do this because they know that most people don’t realize that the AGW theory clearly states that “by burning fossil fuels we are adding more CO2 into the atmosphere trapping the heat IN THE AIR” not the oceans but in the air. People swallow this garbage without ever once thinking for themselves. I keep asking the alarmists why they are so obsessed with the land based temps as proof of global warming and not on the air temps which is where the disproved theory says it would be. God why are so many people such gullible lemmings. Really ???????

        10

  • #
    graham dunton

    The great anti science debate
    A federal science minister, that does not even understand, how real science works!
    That is simply verified by one easy word, deniers
    As for the two old aunties, it is profoundly understood ,they have both lost it.

    180

    • #
      nb

      These are fascinating times. Dangerous, but fascinating, as a new belief system is generated by the society. A moment for the anthropologist.
      Some promoters of the belief system are cynical, but most people are true believers. What needs are being satisfied? Is there is a link between a sense of self that includes a rejection of god based on science, and a sense of self that accepts AGW as based on science? Is the idea of ‘science’ the central narrative? In both cases it is not really science that is being invoked. It is something else, but what? It includes an acceptance of authority, as most people simply follow what others say, and don’t look at the evidence itself.
      Is this a cultural evolution? We have gone from animism to the gods on high to one god. Now to the one ‘science’?
      Perhaps we can engage with warmists as we would with members of a religious movement.

      50

      • #
        nb

        Oh, I should point out that I think there is a much stronger scientific basis for religion than there is for AGW. For example, if we have free-will, outside of the laws of physics, that is a truly mysterious thing.

        50

        • #
          nb

          There is room for religion in a knowledge structure that includes real science, but no room for fake science.

          40

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        nb:

        I see this current hysteria as an extension of the End of the World delusion (courtesy of Nostradamus) that was popular in the 1990′s (and helped by the Y2K bug over reaction). Before that there were numerous scares about chemicals destroying “life as we know it” from the 60′, 70′s into the 80′s. And before that was the grand daddy of all, nuclear armageddon.
        But there is nothing new about cults prophesying the end of the world. The Millerites in the 1840′s had adherents not only in the USA and Canada, but in England, Scandinavia, Australia even Hawaii. That ended in disillusionment for most followers but others made excuses and kept believing.
        You can always “fool some of the people all of the time” by making outlandish predictions of disaster. Look at Adelaide in 1976 when a house painter and amateur clairvoyant reported he’d had a vision in which Adelaide and its 800,000 inhabitants were obliterated by an earthquake and tidal wave. No reason given and no expert knowledge evident. Several people sold their houses cheaply and fled inland. Others treated it as a joke. But it was reported in the newspapers and one TV morning show flew their entire crew to Adelaide to “cover the story”.
        The current story about AGW/Climate Change/Extinction etc. is, to any thinking person, just one of those predictions. Eventually it will collapse and only the most gullible will continue believing, seeking anything as an example of them being right. We can include a couple of these appearing on these posts. The increasing hysteria of the believers is not a sign that they are winning, rather that they sense that they are losing. The climate hasn’t cooperated and anyone looking at their past claims would rapidly become sceptic. Another cold winter in the northern hemisphere and support will collapse and those still believing will face derision. My thought (prediction!) is that before the next Federal election the media will have abandoned support and politicians likewise.

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        • #
          sophocles

          Gee. And I thought I was an optimist!

          The incoming geomagnetic Excursion is going to bring back all the bric-a-brac. There are still folk tales (and the underground city support in the mid-east) about the Younger Dryas still echoing, very faintly, but there, around our societies. We have the reminder of Gobekli Tepe and the remainder of that to excavate.

          It’s very predictably referred to as a “Temple” but:

          1. so little of it has been excavated
          2. without more, we have no real/valid referents for it.

          so it may not be a temple but, say, stone documentation of the Gothenburg Geomagnetic Excursion
          (aka The Younger Dryas).

          40

    • #
      Allen Ford

      The Government tells Climate Change Deniers to stop arguing and accept The Science.

      But ironically, it is the so-called deniers who stick to the Scientific Method to arrive at some conclusion about an issue, not the screamers.

      Opinion is not is not wisdom in the absence of evidence and rational argument based on such.

      Back to school. kiddies!

      140

      • #
        sophocles

        Hear hear!

        Well and accurately said Allen.

        30

        • #
          John McClure

          Unless I’m mistaken, Deniers and Alarmists are unaware of the Science. They choose to blindly agree or disagree.

          Climate Skeptics, Lukewarmers, etc. refer to people who have spent the time to generally understand the science.

          00

      • #
        theRealUniverse (in NZ)

        The A(BS)C, TV(liers)NZ, no absolutly nothing about science, scientific methods, real geophysical data and the list is endless. This also includes MOST Govt ministers in NZ and many in Australia (except a couple we know well mentioned on here).
        They wouldnt know physics if it bit them in the bum.

        50

        • #
          John

          They have a sick interpretation of science. A very sick one.

          I tried to ask some basic questions at a warmist website the other day, and was promptly booted from the site. I wasn’t being a smart arse. I had a serious question about CO2-temp feedbacks and I was giving them a chance to answer. Immediately moderated and account closed.

          30

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Supporting CAGW or not, is a test of integrity.

    No one niw can say there isnt the science to orove or disprove it.

    The question is – do we want people who support such a huge lie, in govt?
    Or in the Cabinet?
    If they sell out the country to this lie, what do we make of that?

    A man or womans character follows them to the grave. Its what people remember about them when its all said and done…..

    180

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      It’s all about the money.

      Or its equivalent like a cushy job, the praise of a “superior” citizen or just the feeling of that glow inside that comes from knowing you have helped save the environment.

      Even if it has been burnt to a crisp.

      KK

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    • #
      PeterS

      The question is – do we want people who support such a huge lie, in govt?
      Or in the Cabinet?
      If they sell out the country to this lie, what do we make of that?

      We all know the solution; stop voting the liars and vote for a party, such as ON that can hold the government to account if they hold the balance of power. It worked when Gillard was able to form government with the help of several independents. The power to make such a change is in the hands of the voters. Too bad most don’t appear even to have a brain. I see too many fumbling through “how to vote” papers trying to figure out who to vote for while standing in a queue at the polling station. When I front up I know well in advance who I will be voting for. I don’t even need one of those “how to vote” papers.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘If they sell out the country to this lie, what do we make of that?’

      In a nutshell, if Morrison fails to stop the big lie being sprouted, then we under the boot of a cultural Marxist dictatorship based solely on a weather yarn.

      140

  • #
    Yowie

    How very bloody convenient that Their GreensALPBC does not allow commenting on their ‘news articles.’

    90

  • #
    Toned-F

    Slightly off topic but still about the media. There was a clear example of corrupt media journalism a couple of weeks ago when the fires were at their worst. It had been a warm morning in Lakes Entrance, reaching about 32C but by mid afternoon the temperature was around 16C. Channel 7 went to a live report from our town where a reporter stated that it was so hot here and a caption flashed across the screen ‘Lakes Entrance 38C’. Many locals have commented about what a liar the reporter was.

    300

    • #
      Dave

      The daily foretasted highs here in NZ where I am, have been consistently 3 degrees above what is actually reached.
      The noticeably and visibly (on my thermometer) colder than average January Temps will be classified as hottest ever, yet cloudier than usual.
      The talking point will be sunshine hours.

      140

      • #
        sophocles

        Thanks for the tip, Dave.

        I hadn’t been paying attention to those, I think from what you’ve just said, I should.
        I’m towards the other end of the North Island from you (Auckland)

        30

    • #
      WXcycles

      Can you name that reporter and their producer? Out who these enemies and deceivers are.

      70

  • #
    Jonesy

    Even getting sick of coverage on 7 news. They are going so far left/green they need an opinion alert…koala killers the lot of them!

    180

    • #
      bobl

      Influenced by the Kochie effect, Kochie is intolerant to diversity of opinion on global warming, he is an acolyte of the church of global warming ( I have video of him losing it with a guest of a different opinion). This Sunrise effect is contaminating their coverage. Channel 9 I note has been toning down the propaganda even in Ex Fairfax mastheads. maybe Channel 9 has received the message that people who lived through the global cooling scare and have been taught to be sceptical of what they are being fed, have all the buying power and that prothlesysing to teenagers with zero bank account balance (Guardian business model) isn’t particularly profitable.

      200

      • #
        hatband

        Agree with what you say, just like to point out that people under 50 don’t watch Television to be

        informed anyway, and perhaps Kochie’s days are numbered now that Karl is coming back.

        (Guardian business model) isn’t particularly profitable.

        According to knowledgeable commenters in the U.K., the Scott Trust ran out of money in the 1970s,

        and The Guardian has been secretly funded by the U.K. Deep State ever since.

        31

      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        I have to say that I don’t like that Kochie fella on 7 ..
        In fact, I find him detestable. Opinionated and rude he is.
        GeoffW

        70

        • #
          George4

          Opinionated and rude he is.

          Yep, he can be irritating, I first noticed it when he was so vocal about how East Timor had been ripped off by our government concerning off shore oil and gas.

          30

      • #
        Sapel Mirrup

        Agree – good common sense analysis. But “prothlesysing to teenagers” – do you mean prophesying or proselytising? Or both?
        BTW the latter is a transitive verb so takes a direct object “proselytising teenagers.”

        40

        • #
          Bob-l

          Never said spelling was my forte, math and science is…

          20

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          I think his point was that trying to enlist teenagers was their last resort as most people have noticed the divergence between the predictions of the gullibles and they spokesmen** and the actual outcome.

          **For the PC this is not a chauvinistic putdown, just that the overwhelming number of BS artists are male.

          30

        • #
          Annie

          I think ‘prothlesysing’ is wonderfully descriptive! Great new word bobl. :)

          20

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    Immoderate again,

    The ABCCCC and modern political institutions all the way down from the U.N. to local government councils are like a surface accumulation that floats on top of a pond and smothers it.

    We are a nation of three month smokos, courtesy of government avarice.

    Of closing industry and universities bursting at the seams with the unemployed. Empty shopfronts everywhere.

    Of schools teaching about rainbows or maybe just the idea of rainbows: anyhow, just go to uni and do a degree in rainbowism, or whatever.

    We are a nation which failed to look up and see the trees reaching in from both sides of the road and touching above us.

    We are a nation which failed to acknowledge that these trees would block our escape from the green fires.

    We are a nation which failed to pay tribute to the Two Hundred Fire victims of the last ten years and Fix The Problem.

    They died for nothing.

    After two hundred years of experience being ignored we need a political upheaval to return Australia to Ethical Governance.

    KK

    70

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      We are a nation which failed to look up and see the trees reaching in from both sides of the road and touching above us.

      We are a nation which failed to acknowledge that these trees would block our escape from the green fires.

      We are a nation which failed to pay tribute to the Two Hundred Fire victims of the last ten years and Fix The Problem.

      They died for nothing.

      After two hundred years of experience being ignored we need a political upheaval to return Australia to Ethical Governance.

      KK

      Well said KK.

      Three (3) Royal Commissions. All recommendations of fuel reduction ignored by the negligent politicians and the incompetent public servants.

      Now Morrison wants a fourth Royal Commission.

      For what?

      To ignore.

      20

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    It wasn’t scum.
    Maybe it was the immoderate rainbows.

    100

    • #
      • #
        Kalm Keith

        A larger swipe at the blog and the Maiden of Orleans.

        http://joannenova.com.au/2020/01/global-patsy-since-1990-each-australian-have-already-cut-co2-emissions-by-40/#comment-2257032

        Somebody did put up a warning of trouble on another blog.

        This is relevant because it involves communication or in the case of Fred, fp etc, voluminous blog infill.

        KK

        101

        • #
          hatband

          Huh?

          Cranky that you and your mates have turned a couple of other Blogs into sewers,

          but you’re encountering some pushback here?

          112

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            How many times were contributors here called abusive names;

            http://joannenova.com.au/2019/08/time-mag-buttering-up-believers-why-deniers-brains-cant-process-climate-change/#comment-2176374

            He was back here yesterday and quickly scored a lot of negative ticks.

            But it’s good that there are so many new “contributors”.

            KK

            71

            • #
              hatband

              Plenty of negative ticks, but no rebuttal.

              210

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                From a previous post; rebut this, bearing in mind that centripetal force counters the tendency of the rotating object to want to fly off into space. e.g. Centripetal force holds the moon in orbit.

                “Energy can spin around and around and contrary to normal physics where the centripetal force needed to hold a circular orbit is towards the centre of rotation, when dealing with energy only, i.e. Non solids, the force needed is the exact opposite.

                This means that the radius of rotation gets smaller and smaller until the energy disappears as a point event horizon colloquially known as a black hole.

                Not many people know about this, but Gee Aye does.”

                But please, rebut this.

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              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Keith all this talk of Centripetal this and centrifugal that is getting ahead of oneself and is never going to work until we delve deeper into the nature of gravity. That gay hippy virgin … here I speak of Newton …. he did an amazing job. Almost a supernaturally good job. But its dated and its wrong and the moratorium on sane gravity research really needs to end.

                ORBITS ARE FLIGHT Flight is inherently unstable and moreso without a pilot. In fact for flight, without a pilot, to be stable, we are looking for three automatic stabilisers.

                If Gravity conformed to heritage formulae, then gravity would be clumpy. It would be like magnets in a space station. Magnets in a space station will not wish to orbit each-other. They will either hide from each-other or clump together. So we need to dig a lot deeper into the nature of gravity before we can really get beyond what it is that made you so butthurt today.

                Now consider this. It takes a really top-flight mathematician to solve the “three body problem” when it comes to orbits. But gravity solves a multi-billion body problem instantly and without any major known crashes between the big stuff. So we know that gravity isn’t clumpy. A big and small object ….. they want to amalgamate. Two big objects want to orbit. Some contemplation will reveal that, in the deeper evolution of matter, this had to be the case for us to have a viable reality. And for our current form of matter to decisively win out.

                23

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Amazing. I give you guys the good oil on gravity and some Cro-Magnum man downvotes me in seconds. Is this any way for trace-gas ANTI-HYSTERICS to act? I’m not even asking for money here. Fitzroy was that you? Do we have communist interlopers here?

                42

            • #
              hatband

              Who cares?

              There’s some esoteric difference of opinion between yourself and Graeme, so

              you want to blow the Blog up?

              Get a grip, man, if your contribution here was any less, it’d be in Negative territory,

              and that’s putting it gently.

              29

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Which Graeme did you want to insult? There are at least 3 of us commenting here, which reduces you to a (very) minor intellectual category (NOTE avoidance of Moderation).

                31

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              Energy can spin around and around and contrary to normal physics where the centripetal force needed to hold a circular orbit is towards the centre of rotation, when dealing with energy only, i.e. Non solids, the force needed is the exact opposite.

              No it cannot work that way.

              towards the centre of rotation

              Towards the centre of rotation? A fellow does a great job a few hundred years ago and you put this albatross around his neck? If gravity is a nucleon-to-nucleon phenomenon then that hippy Newtons formulae are only shorthand. Not only shorthand but the reverse square law should be considered an emergent phenomenon only. To the extent that it works, or seems to work, it only does so within certain limits.

              20

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Hey everyone,look at this.

                He figured out that it was a hoax piece, finally.

                He still hasn’t told us why he was excluded / kicked off that other blog. Perhaps it’s the personal abuse he routinely sprays around.

                KK

                10

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              [snip]
              You KK waited for a new thread, and then you tried to run a pity-party against me, as if you had been wronged, when its the case that you are the only person here that tried a flame war on me. In fact I am the guilty one with flame wars but now I just sit tight waiting on baited breath for more revelations from WXCycles. He’s the man. He’s the one with the intimate knowledge here. He’s real class. So I’ll only give him a sly elbow from here on in. But you flamed me even before that. Without cause.

              [snip. No more personal attacks! - Jo]

              22

        • #

          GB is not a welcome sight

          [Attack the message not the man. - Jo]

          75

  • #
    Greg Cavanagh

    I don’t understand how so many people get so angry over something as stupid as the weather. Don’t they ever reflect on the subject at hand and their emotional turmoil over something so stupid.

    To attack these invisible ghost people who don’t believe the world is coming to an end, over the weather? It’s bizarre and surreal what is happening.

    And it’s only the Western world doing it too. What’s up with that? Everybody else is laughing at us for this collective madness. Everybody either doesn’t give a fig about it, or cries and wails and shoves their collection tin in front of your nose.

    How can this thing continue to get stronger each year instead of die a quick death, I’m stumped if I know. Thirty years plus, and there’s no end in sight yet.

    150

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘And it’s only the Western world doing it too.’

      Its of religious significance, millenarianism is an imbedded cultural meme which the christian West has cultivated. You can see throughout history how this belief system works, a transformative influence to bring about a new world order. We are all doomed so flagellating is our only hope of survival.

      No doubt about it, this whole business is a sophisticated cargo cult.

      82

      • #
        PeterS

        Yes history is full of similar events of corrupted and deluded belief systems. Examples include the Roman Catholic Inquisitions of the 16th Century, Hitler’s Nazi Germany, tyrannical despot of Libya by Gaddafi, Empress Wu Zetian of China, and many more. Also note the modern CAGW hoax started with and contributed mostly by the left who are predominately atheists. Hint hint.

        121

        • #
          el gordo

          Lets focus on millenarianism.

          ‘The most famous and spectacular millenarian movement in traditional China was, of course, the Taiping Rebellion (1850–1864) led by Hong Xiuquan (1813–1864). … Declaring himself to be the second son of God and the younger brother of Jesus, Hong saw himself as the redeemer of China, if not of the world as well.’ wiki

          32

          • #
            PeterS

            What has all this to do with the topic at hand apart from the fact that lies are perpetrated by all humans regardless of their religious or non-religious position?

            60

            • #
              el gordo

              Apart from the fact that all western religious institutions support the movement, what we see here is the skeleton without the deity. These days the high priests are the Klimatariat and their MSM running dogs are barking mad.

              Its an imbedded meme that has morphed into a radical movement throughout the Western world, repent or be damned.

              52

              • #
                PeterS

                Not all do – you must know what you said is false. Those that do are following what the non-Christian institutions (mostly atheistic) such as Universities, NASA, etc. are saying about CAGW. Please refrain from bringing in religious connotations into the discussion. It has no relevance. As I sated before if anyone is to be blamed for starting the CAGW hoax look elsewhere. PS my church is agnostic on the subject.

                31

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘ … such as Universities …’

                There is evidence from the recent UK elections that the university cities went to Labor.

                Keep in mind this is not about an individual’s belief in a deity, we are looking at a mass social and political movement sustained by a corrupt media. If this madness continues into the foreseeable future, you’ll have your crash and burn.

                40

              • #
                PeterS

                Glad you agree that religion or atheism has nothing to do with the current madness we are witnessing around climate change. We need to stick to the real causes, namely man’s many failings; greed for power and money by any means, such as telling lies, altering the data, blatant propaganda, etc.., ignorance, foolishness and/or a total lack of interest in the truth, and last but certainly not the least – the general attitude of not giving a damn, at least until things go pear shaped. As for the crash and burn scenario – it’s not mine. It’s just high on the list of possible scenarios as per history. It’s so obvious if anyone bothers to study it.

                40

        • #
          hatband

          The Spanish Inquisition wasn’t a bad idea, Heretics having no place in Christendom anyway.

          As far as Gaddafi goes, his regime was secular, and he delivered First World living standards

          to his people, a First for Africa.

          44

          • #
            PeterS

            Followers of the true Christ do not go around murdering people en mass. Only evil minded people do.

            82

            • #
              hatband

              Blasphemy is worthy of death.

              Christ Himself agreed with that.

              24

              • #
                PeterS

                Not just blasphemers. All non-believers too. After all God’s plan is to re-create a perfect world. I can’t wait.

                01

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                I’d like the citation for that hatband.

                I smell a dead fish.

                11

              • #
                GD

                Blasphemy is worthy of death. Christ Himself agreed with that.

                Citation, hatband? Because I call bullt*ish on that bit of blasphemy.

                11

              • #
                PeterS

                hatband is partly correct.
                Matthew 12:30-32: “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, any sin and blasphemy can be forgiven. But blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

                20

              • #
                hatband

                Here you go, doubters:

                His Words:

                Matthew 5:18 King James Version (KJV)
                18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

                Under the Law, death was the punishment for Blasphemy.

                Until a couple of hundred years ago, Blasphemers would be hung on the same gibbet

                as usurers and murderers.

                21

              • #
                WXcycles

                Actually it was, let those who have no Sin cast the first stone. The one liner demolished the whole barbarous dreary old testament, and there’s a conspicuous absence of stoning people for blasphemy in the new testament, more like, he who lives by the sword shall cark it by the sword. Sounds like a warning to me. I’d say whipping and nailing the Jesus to a cross is kinda blasphemey, but no one got stoned for that, the Jesus said forgive them father, they don’t even know what they’re doing. Apparently ignorance of the Law is an excuse in Heaven, so the less you know the better things may ultimately go for you.

                Perhaps the Sin and casting first stones tendency was just WRT hot girls doing the wild thing? But I notice the dude who was doing the actual pelvic impaling didn’t get hauled out for equal treatment.

                I may have blasphemed, but I know not what I do.

                I don’t have to work with a Blasphemer!” – Mad Max

                20

          • #
            Graeme Bird

            Yes and he was about to introduce a wealth-producing currency. Something not seen on the planet since Bretton Woods ended. This is why he had to die on television, and in as humiliating a way as could possibly be conceived. His currency may have enriched all of North Africa.

            Not on the agenda.

            22

    • #
      Dave

      I have a hunch smart phones have something to do with it?
      But then India has lots of those too.

      60

    • #
      pattoh

      “How can this thing continue to get stronger each year instead of die a quick death, I’m stumped if I know.”

      When the punters wake up to the fact that the people behind the AGW/Agenda21/30/50 “Eugenics as Environmentalism” Scam are the same people & bankers who have suborned the global economy, through the financialization casino & created a debt gulag for the 99.99%; the scales will fall from our eyes.

      Critical thinking, reason & logic are easier in hindsight.

      50

    • #
      WXcycles

      And it’s only the Western world doing it too.

      Actually it’s just the left-wing socialist-pushing wannabe-commie part of the West that’s doing it. The rest of us could not give a fig, we just don’t want science to be their shiny-thing to abuse and constantly lie and empty their bowel into.

      Still awaiting the global mass protests and greenpeace ships throwing rotten-eggs at PLAN destroyers, in the South China Sea. Don’t hold your breath waiting for that, could take a few centuries. Obviously they don’t mean a word they say about extingshion rebellyons.

      40

  • #
    hatband

    It’s all Propaganda and Fake News.

    The ABC just leads the charge.

    My wake up moment was when NATO bombed Belgrade to rubble for 78 days straight

    and the local ABC Newsreader sneer when he mouthed the phrase ”Recalcitrant Serbs” every night.

    So, it was Over& Out, ABC for me 25 years ago, why anyone’s still watching beats me.

    151

    • #
      el gordo

      The Guardian leads the charge, followed closely by Fairfax and the ABC. Should we dismantle the ABC?

      120

    • #
      Dave

      I was in Melbourne when that was taking place.
      Some protests against it were happening at the time.
      I spoke of my disgust at what was happening on a tram.
      A woman with thick Australian accent barked at me “That’s rich coming from a New Zealander”.
      I’m not sure what she meant.

      60

      • #
        hatband

        I’m not sure what she meant.

        She meant: Stick to your Knitting. Australia is totally over Kiwis.

        32

        • #
          Dave

          There’s many in Melbourne no doubt.
          Australians are like an animated colorful version of a still black and white picture.
          I find it way easier, and often far more entertaining striking up a conversation with an Australian, than in the land of black and grey.

          30

      • #
  • #
    Big Al

    I have been writing to KA (my local rep) for years trying to get her to tell me what SHE thinks, on many important matters, the current topic included; but, all I get back is the standard soppy spin that covers the whole page with words that have many meanings, NO substance, and absolutely nothing of her own thoughts.

    SHE is a qualified engineer, but her public conduct is so contrary to her professional training that it appears her mind has degenerated into that of a professional politician; that is, one who has the ability to say a lot, without meaning, least of all purpose because, once elected, their sole purpose is to not stop the gravy train feeding their life in a sanitized bubble far removed from all the plebs, like me.

    Our once lucky country ain’t so any more; how sad to see Oz flailing away with so few of our leaders standing up for the truth.

    180

  • #
    Deplorable Lord Kek

    Ooops they did it again:

    December 11, 2019: “There will be no relief for drought-ravaged regions over the summer, with Bureau of Meteorology officials telling a meeting of state and federal ministers there would be no significant rain until at least April.”

    January 15, 2020: “Hey #Sydney! You’re looking mighty fine under that #rain this morning! Best fall overnight in the metro 18mm at #Penrith. Today the chance of a #thunderstorm in the Sydney basin, mainly this afternoon and evening, with possible heavy rain: Bureau of Meteorology, New South Wales (@BOM_NSW)

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/01/bom-one-month-ago-no-rain-until-april.html

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    • #

      I know several farmers in drought and they are still in drought – the relief was slight.

      50

      • #
        Deplorable Lord Kek

        But that is not what the BOM said.

        60

        • #

          Nor did it say that there would be zero rain

          22

          • #
            Deplorable Lord Kek

            They said:

            no significant rain until at least April

            It is currently pouring.

            60

            • #

              right then. Pouring at your place means the drought is broken. Thank goodness.

              12

              • #
                Deplorable Lord Kek

                right then. Pouring at your place means the drought is broken. Thank goodness.

                No, they said “no relief for drought-ravaged regions”

                Their statement is universally quantified.

                I am in a ‘drought-ravaged region’ and have ‘relief’

                60

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Their statement is universally quantified.

                As are astrologers and fortune-tellers.

                10

        • #
          • #
            Deplorable Lord Kek

            This is the actual media release

            that would be difficult when the story I “pasted from somewhere” does not purport to come from that media release.

            30

            • #

              No… your thing was not the BOM’s predictions.

              11

              • #
                WXcycles

                “The positive IOD means we’re also expecting a delayed onset for the northern monsoon, one of the key drivers for tropical rainfall during the summer months. “At this stage we’re expecting the onset of the northern monsoon by mid-summer, which should see the odds for closer to average rainfall increasing from January and into February.” … “Even with a drier than average outlook, localised flooding remains a risk under particular meteorological conditions such as thunderstorms, and of course communities in the north need to be prepared at this time of year for tropical cyclones.” – BOM http://media.bom.gov.au/releases/727/summer-outlook-shows-warmer-and-drier-conditions-likely-to-continue-into-2020/

                I’d say that’s about right. If we don’t get real monsoon flow firing-up within the next month this Summer’s wet will be mostly over. Without a flip towards La Nina by end of the Summer drought is likely to persist.

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              • #
                el gordo

                There has been talk that its a return to the early 1950s wet season, on that occasion there was cooling in both hemispheres.

                30

              • #
                WXcycles

                There has been talk that its a return to the early 1950s wet season, on that occasion there was cooling in both hemispheres.

                Maybe, though I think that would require proper La Nina to kick it off. We’re about ‘due’ for one though:

                https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/393c0c6ae18140aa9a7a2bebc86aa707.png

                I checked at the humidity map this morning and deep dry-air persists into the tropics and sub-tropics from ~5,000 ft to ~24,000 ft, through to around the end of January, no change there, drier if anything.

                Though QLD looks like it’s setting up for monsoon development in the week following Australia Day which could alter the seasonal pattern so far. There was little monsoon flow development from the last two named storms near WA. I think that’ll continue there as the dry air south of Indonesia (what pushed up the 90 day OLR anom) is going to tend to snuff any major cyclone as dry air wraps in, so the monsoon flow will probably remain weak. At present the tropics from PNG west to India are fairly placid. Winds are slack, equatorial thunderstorms relatively suppressed, and not moving much. A major cyclone in the southern Gulf of Carpentaria or Eastern Arafura Sea is what’s needed to stir things up but there’s still not much no rotation there. Coral Sea is also quiet.

                Queensland is going to get a steady build up of deep-humidity from now until at least Feb 1st, and that will kick off Lows, hopefully several, into mid-Feb.

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              • #

                well that made Lord Kek stop. Someone else actually checking.

                10

      • #
        Graeme Bird

        Thats only because their properties aren’t tricked out as water retention landscapes.

        20

    • #
      Graeme#4

      And the BOM is currently being roasted big-time in The Oz comments this morning. They deserve it.

      100

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      The BOM having failed with it’s Weather stations
      ‘Is also failing with it’s long range weather forecasts as well
      They too are subject to pollution by climate cult BOM staff beliefs..
      Bureau of Misinformation folks !

      100

  • #
    Penguinite

    Many thanks for this reminder Jo! I did hear the Science Ministers words that night and was so disgusted that I put it out of my mind but was driven back into action by this column and even more riled by ABC’s translation. I have raised another on-line complaint to The ABC. Hardly ever get an answer or supportive response but every little helps.

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    • #
      PeterG

      Can I humbly suggest you copy the Minister as well as your local member and also let them know that you will be forwarding any response, or lack of, to them.

      60

  • #
    PeterS

    The hysteria over global warming is not just from the ABC. It has spread to all our broadcasters, including Sky News. Yesterday I saw the weather presenter on Sky News how climate change is causing record temperatures in Australia and briefly outlined CSIRO’s predictions that worse is to come causing more bush fires in future summers. There are a few dissenters, such as Bolt but the trend is clear; the lies are spreading more and more everywhere. Then there are the schools, Universities and politicians in both major parties clamouring for more action on climate change. I sense the whole nation is some sort of spell and being led up the garden path. One thing might wake us up; frequent power outages across large areas of the eastern states due to insufficient base load power.

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      bobl

      Or just maybe the damage being done to children’s mental health by the church of global warming’s doomsday propaganda.

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      • #
        PeterS

        You mean religious cult of global warming’s doomsday propaganda spear headed by the ABC. By definition a church is a building for Christian worship. If anything the cult of CAGW is made up mostly of atheists.

        40

    • #
      Robdel

      Agreed, Peter. Only power blackouts will bring the people to their senses bigtime.

      60

      • #
        PeterS

        Yes that’s the nature of the delusions and the madness of crowd behaviour fuelled by the propagandists and elite. It forces of evil strong and people will wake up only when it starts hurting big time. Until then most people don’t give a damn as long as they have the bread and circuses.

        20

    • #
      WXcycles

      What will wake us up are 1970s style winters.

      50

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Sir David Attenborough addresses Australian bushfire crisis in UK interview

    “As I speak, south-east Australia is on fire.”

    https://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/sir-david-attenborough-says-humans-have-overrun-the-world/news-story/279c49216accdcd3d55ddd49897f5f13

    >> Meanwhile, in Australia …

    . Storms sweep across Victoria bringing heavy rain, hail, thunder and improved air quality

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/melbourne-air-quality-could-return-to-hazardous-bushfire-smoke/11867796

    . BOM warns of flash flooding as rain brings bushfire relief across NSW

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-16/bom-warns-of-flooding-as-rain-offers-fire-relief-in-nsw/11869768

    . Melbourne receives month’s worth of rain overnight

    https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6122964348001

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  • #
    Ruairi

    The climate-change doctrine now thrives,
    As a dogma for millions of lives,
    Which is oft swallowed whole,
    Causing mass mind control,
    And compliance like Stepford Wives.

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  • #

    If “climate change denier” means denial that we will suffer unprecedented dangerous global warming, with weather extremes, disasters, and extinctions, and prevention is simpler, easier, quicker, cheaper, and less disruptive than adaptation and mitigation, then I am a proud climate change denier. Better than being a history and geology denier. The onus is on the other side to prove their case.

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  • #
    TdeF

    It should be a crime like arson.

    The only people hoping to capitalise on the bushfires are the Climatebaggers. The Greens who made it so.much worse. Their friends in the ABC/SBS/CSIRO/BOM and all the Universities like JCU who want more billions to wreck Australia.

    Are we to conclude that not a single scientist in Australia disagrees? Why are they all silent? Every university? Every meteorologist. Every physicist. Every public servant? Tens of thousands of them on the public payroll. And now that universities are huge businesses where the Vice Chancellors are on million salaries, why doesn’t anyone speak out? Or have I answered the question. Total self interest, no ethics.

    This happened in Germany in the 1840s. In Russia. The villains are the ones who keep silent. Money and power. And long holidays overseas. No risk. Sell the lot. There is not an environment minister in the country with the guts to speak out.

    As Tony Abbott put so plainly. Climate Change is crap.

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    • #
      bobl

      They can’t, you saw what happened to Peter Ridd, they have families to feed and zealots with Swords of Damocles over their heads. Other than the brave few like Peter Ridd and Jennifer Marohassy we will only hear from retired people.

      120

      • #
        TdeF

        They can. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”― Edmund Burke (in a letter addressed to Thomas Mercer).

        80

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      hatband

      As Tony Abbott put so plainly. Climate Change is crap.

      Private conversation, I believe.

      The first time he was challenged to repeat the statement in public, Abbott went to water.

      23

      • #
        TdeF

        So? He remains absolutely right.

        100

      • #

        yeah a man of his convictions.

        33

        • #
          Graeme Bird

          Don’t know about you fella. Seems you are sometimes given over to irony. Even when you are too stupid to suss it when your pants are inside out or not.

          20

      • #
        el gordo

        It wasn’t a private conversation, a door stop interview by an intrepid reporter caught it.

        Its come to my notice that your facts are lazy, so you’ll need to sharpen up or fail. For example you have said on an earlier thread that Cook going up the south east coast of Australia saw a lot of smoke from bushfires. That isn’t true, he saw smoke from a few campfires and no bushfires because it was a La Nina year.

        61

        • #
          hatband

          Sigh… same shopworn old tactic.

          Why not display my alleged comment and prove your point?

          32

          • #
            el gordo

            We were discussing the idea that eucalypts are injurious to health and we agreed to rip them all out and plant something more hospitable. Anyway I was just nitpicking because of my obsession with climate change.

            Good news from the SMH, Morrison is on track.

            ‘Investment in large-scale clean energy projects plunged 56 per cent in Australia last year, dropping to their lowest level since 2016 amid renewed uncertainty in the industry’s future.’

            20

      • #
        Dennis

        Not exactly, he said IPCC climate data is crap.

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  • #
    OriginalSteve

    It is friday after all….a friday funny…..

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/most-australians-would-hardly-notice-if-we-went-coal-free-say-experts/ar-BBZ0BBR?li=AAgfIYZ&ocid=mailsignout

    “Asked about the world’s biggest investment fund BlackRock dumping half a billion dollars in coal shares, Morrison said transitioning away from coal could “[pull] the rug from regional communities”.

    “But experts say most Australians would “hardly notice” if we went coal-free, and that the transition was already well underway.

    ““Life would go on as usual,” said Paul Burke, an economist working on energy, the environment and transport at the Australian National University’s Crawford School of Public Policy.

    ““We’re just talking about one input into the economy, and fossil fuels are substitutional for renewables, especially given they are now much cheaper and reliable than before.”
    Burke said despite the polarisation of the climate change debate in Australia, the shift away from fossil fuels was not in fact a radical one, and “could happen in a way that most of us would hardly notice”.

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    • #
      John in Oz

      Paul Burke is not much of an economist if he only sees coal as an energy producer.

      From the World Coal Association (and I know they have a vested interest)

      Different types of coal have different uses.

      Steam coal – also known as thermal coal – is mainly used in power generation.
      Coking coal – also known as metallurgical coal – is mainly used in steel production.
      Other important users of coal include alumina refineries, paper manufacturers, and the chemical and pharmaceutical industries. Several chemical products can be produced from the by-products of coal. Refined coal tar is used in the manufacture of chemicals, such as creosote oil, naphthalene, phenol, and benzene. Ammonia gas recovered from coke ovens is used to manufacture ammonia salts, nitric acid and agricultural fertilisers. Thousands of different products have coal or coal by-products as components: soap, aspirins, solvents, dyes, plastics and fibres, such as rayon and nylon.

      Coal is also an essential ingredient in the production of specialist products:

      Activated carbon – used in filters for water and air purification and in kidney dialysis machines.
      Carbon fibre – an extremely strong but light weight reinforcement material used in construction, mountain bikes and tennis rackets.
      Silicon metal – used to produce silicones and silanes, which are in turn used to make lubricants, water repellents, resins, cosmetics, hair shampoos and toothpastes.

      Burke’s life must be very different to everyday Aussies if ‘Life as usual’ does not have the by-products of coal (and other fossil fuels). ‘Renewables’ cannot be used to replace items requiring more than just electricity.

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    • #
      ivan

      Cut off his electricity when the wind stops blowing and also limit it to the proportion of wind supplied electricity when it is blowing – he would soon change his tune.

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    • #
      John

      ““But experts say most Australians would “hardly notice” if we went coal-free, and that the transition was already well underway. “

      “Hardly notice”. Amazing the rubbish these “experts” trot out.

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    • #
      WXcycles

      But experts say most Australians would “hardly notice” if we went coal-free, and that the transition was already well underway.“Life would go on as usual,” said Paul Burke, an economist working on energy, the environment and transport at the Australian National University’s Crawford School of Public Policy.

      Paging Tony!

      Time to give the fools both barrels?

      40

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Nothing to see here……move along….

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/sa-police-search-for-suspected-bushfire-arsonist-on-kangaroo-island/ar-BBZ1ndg?li=AAgfYrC&ocid=mailsignout

    “SA Police search for suspected bushfire arsonist on Kangaroo Island

    “South Australian Police are searching for a suspected arsonist on Kangaroo island after being alerted to abnormal fire activity.

    “The blaze in question was discovered burning near a pine plantation on the island when local fire crews patrolling an already burnt out area saw the new outbreak of flames.
    Anyone with information about the incident are urged to call 000 or crime stoppers.

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    • #
      TdeF

      They are looking for a climate changer. With matches.

      100

      • #
        TdeF

        And if he is caught and denies lighting the fires, he is a Climate Change denier.

        Which would prove that Climate Change Deniers are the ones responsible for the bush fires.

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        • #
          hatband

          The ABC have already told us, via some QUT mouthpiece, that the typical Arsonist Profile is a

          disadvantaged Teenaged Yout, so:;

          Case Closed, and don’t forget the Funding.

          22

          • #
            TdeF

            No, the other group is 60+. And there can be many reasons, some commercial.

            21

            • #
              hatband

              Apart from anything else, The ABC has indulged in Profiling there,

              just to deflect discussion on the Arsonists causing the bushfires.

              Imagine the howls of outrage from the ABC if the Victorian cops adopted

              a Profiling Policy in Melbourne?

              02

  • #
    hillbilly33

    As reduction of the essential trace gas CO2 appears to be the only “answer” proposed by alarmists to the “Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming” allegedly taking place, could someone with school-age children kindly tell us exactly what is now being taught in schools, about CO2 and photo-synthesis?

    http://members.iinet.net.au/~glrmc/RMC-07-CO2%20is%20not%20a%20Pollutant-133.mp4

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  • #
    John

    And check SMH’s spin on the rain, which is ruining their armageddon narrative.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/drought-breaking-rain-likely-to-cause-greenhouse-emissions-to-rise-20200116-p53rze.html#comments

    RAIN to INCREASE global warming.

    60

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Australian National University Climate Change Institute Professor Mark Howden
      Is an utter dumbnut !
      He thinks that people should NOT eat farm produce
      And that farmers should not grow food !!
      We should all starve so there are no greenhouse gas emissions ?
      Stuff that ! He’a bloody joke !
      How does such an idiot get to be a professor at the ANU ?

      80

      • #
        John

        I’ve heard some climate change activists explain that food will be grown in food factories, using genetically engineered bacteria, all powered with zero emissions green energy. Producing “wheat”, protein and basic polysaccharides this way will be 200,000x more efficient than clunky old photosynthesis.

        40

        • #
          Dave

          “Food Sheds” Areas around smart cities where the bare minimum is to be grown.
          Their term not mine.
          Re the “sustainable UN Agenda”.

          31

        • #
          Graeme Bird

          John they are so estranged from nature these people. From commerce too. They must be inter-generational recipients, of what David Graeber describes as bullshit jobs.

          31

  • #
    frednk

    Actually the science minister did say what was reported, and she said it in parliament. Her words will be enshrined in Hansard.

    The problem you face is science is actually pretty good at predicting the future, and the future is pretty much unfolding as predicted and it is not pretty.

    Might be time to start thinking about the things you think indicate the serious scientists are corrupt and wrong and start trying to work out why it is happening, start to think about what is missing in your understanding.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      And yet you still can’t present any of this actual “science”

      Now been proven by measurement that the troposphere is in thermal equilibrium.

      Greenhouse effect if it even exists, is totally over-ridden by the gravity based thermal gradient.

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      • #
        frednk

        call x the energy from space.
        call y the energy from earths core.
        x+y is the total energy entering into the system
        call z the energy that escapes back to space.

        If x+y > z, what happens? Gets hotter
        If x+z < z, what happens? Gets colder.

        It really is that simple.

        Gravity based thermal gradient, troposphere is in thermal equilibrium,is all the other stuff and distractions are all very interesting if you are trying go work out where the additional energy ends up.

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          • #
            frednk

            Both the paper you liked to and the paper it linked to conclude the system is not balanced, at issue is how in-balanced.

            12

            • #
              tom0mason

              And the problem with not having a balance is?

              20

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              You drop-kick. In any system most of the thermal energy is going to balance very quickly leaving a new surface temperature lickety spit. At least where gasses are concerned.

              20

              • #
                tom0mason

                Graeme Bird,
                It is the small changes within that so called ‘energy balance’ that makes all the difference.
                ¯
                The problem is that within the chaotic climate system there is always energy coming in (as our variable sun keeps on shining), and there is a cool side to the planet (where it’s night). Plus there’s those cold polar areas. Between these extremes there is the great number of largely unknown solar energy sinks, and sources releasing that stored energy at their own, often unpredictable rates – e.g. oceanic overturning currents, large area changes due to such things as desert regrowth or die-back, large continent wide forest fires, etc.

                And that is the problem with the energy balance ideas — it assumes that the planet is in stasis, that over time nothing significant changes. However we know that nature can push some incremental changes – changes in solar activity, or cloud cover, or volcanic eruptions, overall vegetative changes and land use — incremental changes that eventually all have serious climate impacts.
                With the nature of this planet there is only very rarely cases when the energy is in balance and it does not last long. What nature does is to try to keep-up with all the chaotic changes, it tries for equilibrium and fails. During warm periods the vegetative cover increases (as the CO2 rises) and animal life benefits. During the cool periods the overall amount of life (and eventually atmospheric CO2) gradually decline. That’s nature trying to keep-up, sequestering away as much energy and resources at any particular time.

                If we did correctly understand how the planet energy balance works we could properly explain the global cooling that happened between the 1950s-1970s, or the global warming of the late 1990s to early 2000s.

                31

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Yeah that analysis sounds pretty correct.

                If we did correctly understand how the planet energy balance works we could properly explain the global cooling that happened between the 1950s-1970s, or the global warming of the late 1990s to early 2000s.

                I think we know that don’t we? Its to do with the ocean current strength of the most part isn’t it? Since the Stefan-Boltzmann law is one of the few in nature, that works to the fourth power, to spread thermal energy out is to retain it better. So when the Gulf Stream pulses more strongly, that should put a warming overlay on whatever the sun is doing. So why the pulsing? It could be to do with the viscosity of water with regards to temperature. Colder water is more viscous so that might set up a pulse effect on its own. Or there could be other reasons.

                20

            • #
              AndyG55

              LOL, what don’t you comprehend about thermal equilibrium.

              I am seriously beginning to wonder if the “engineering” you say you did had any actual content in it at all. !

              01

        • #
          AndyG55

          “Gravity based thermal gradient, troposphere is in thermal equilibrium”

          Are the FACTS that you must DENY.

          You seem to think energy isn’t used on the surface of the Earth.

          Energy escaping to space matches the troposphere temperature.

          No divergence, no trapped heat.

          Just natural warming from strong solar influx and drop in tropical cloud cover.

          Lots of energy stored in the oceans, but La Nina coming

          All re-balancing itself.

          40

          • #
            Greg Cavanagh

            Indeed life needs energy to live and thrive. No energy, no life. It’s obvious once you recognize it. Good luck with that, Ha!

            frednk; The world continues as it always has. There is nothing extraordinary about today’s weather, and there is no indication whatsoever that anything unusual is happening.

            If you can see anything unusual, please let us know what that is. cheers.

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        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Deliberate junk.
          Blog clogging.
          Disruptor.
          Self indulgent undereducated tool of the Global Elite.

          MalEx444 thanks you for your sacrifice.

          KK

          21

        • #
          Graeme Bird

          No its not that simple you low-wattage stooge. Whats the matter with you. You have been having some sort of stupid explosion this very night.

          21

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘ …. work out why it is happening, start to think about what is missing in your understanding.’

      A quiet sun makes earth’s atmosphere shrink, forcing the jet stream to meander, followed by the collapse of the subtropical ridge, which creates a blocking pattern. This is essentially what is happening at the moment, its a global cooling signal primed and ready for the next super La Nina at the end of the year.

      Fred my hypothesis needs a critique and I would appreciate your input.

      70

      • #
        frednk

        el gordo

        What you say could be true. Climate is a very complicated thing; that is why I think it is best to stay out of it. The truth of the matter is, it is a chaotic system and as a species our maths does not deal with chaotic systems well. I have seen chaotic systems become a topic for study in my lifetime. The truth of the matter is people a lot smarter than you or me are trying to sort it out and are struggling.

        It is my view they are not stupid, they are not corrupt and they are trying to understand a very difficult topic, and they have come a long way. All the research to understand this has been done in my lifetime, it is in my view amazing what has been achieved.

        The energy equations are a lot easier. There is only one rule to remember. Energy is neither created nor destroyed it is only converted from one form to another. If the energy in and out is not balanced then it being stored in the system somehow, and the storage will continue until in and out are equal once more.

        We know a body will radiate more energy if it is hotter, so if the planet warmed the radiated energy would increase and balance could be restored.
        We know why CO2 is a greenhouse gas and that it will reduce the radiated energy.

        The last two points are not speculation, they are well understood principles.

        15

        • #

          well frednk, anon commenter who hasn’t read much skeptical material says the other side are smarter. That does it…

          60

        • #
          Graeme Bird

          It is my view they are not stupid, they are not corrupt

          Oh welcome back from Mars. How has it been? Was the supply of green tea to your liking? Were you working on the vertical glass farms? How long has it beenYOU MORON

          Yes they are stupid. Tick. Yes they are corrupt. Verified

          So in fact you don’t know the first thing about the science, or what is going on in the world today right? Do I have that right? Yes I do.

          11

        • #
          Reed Coray

          frednk wrote:

          We know a body will radiate more energy if it is hotter, so if the planet warmed the radiated energy would increase and balance could be restored.
          We know why CO2 is a greenhouse gas and that it will reduce the radiated energy.

          The last two points are not speculation, they are well understood principles.

          With a modification to the wording, I’ll go along with the first “principle.” The modification is that “all else being equal, we know that the rate a body radiates energy will be greater the higher the temperature of the body, so all else being equal, if the planet warmed the rate of radiated energy would increase to restore ‘radiation-rate-equilibrium,’ not to restore radiated-energy-equilibrium.” For example, provided the temperature of the environment is lower than the temperature of a body, a 500,000 ton sphere of “you name the substance” at temperature “T” degrees Kelvin will radiate more energy to the environment than a 0.005 pound sphere of the same substance at temperature “T+1″ degrees Kelvin. So to claim “We know a body will radiate more energy if it is hotter” is just not true. All else being equal, the rate of radiated energy will be greater for the higher temperature object, but not necessarily the total radiated energy.

          Your second principle is just flat wrong. As with your first principle, your second principle should be expressed in terms of “energy rate,” not “energy.” But even with that change what you say is wrong–i.e., all else being equal a greenhouse gas will NOT reduce the rate energy is radiated from the earth/earth-atmosphere system. It might be true that all else being equal the presence of atmospheric greenhouse gases (or for that matter, any atmospheric gas) will alter the rate energy is radiated from the earth’s surface, but earth surface radiation is not the only source of radiation from the earth/earth-atmosphere system to space. The atmosphere also radiates energy to space. Since radiation is the overwhelmingly dominate mechanism by which the earth sheds energy, in energy-rate-equilibrium the only way for the earth/earth-atmosphere system to reduce the “rate-of-radiated energy–i.e., the rate of outgoing energy” is for the rate the earth absorbs/internally-generates heat to be reduced. Greenhouse gases do absorb some of the energy radiated from the earth’s surface, but provided the sum of the rates (a) energy is absorbed from the sun, and (b) generated internally within the earth/earth-atmosphere system does not change, in energy-rate-equilibrium the rate energy is radiated from the earth/earth-atmosphere system will also not change. This is true independent of the presence/absence of atmospheric greenhouse gases. Now, I’m not saying the presence of atmospheric greenhouse gases can’t affect the temperature distribution within the earth/earth-atmosphere system; but I am saying that it is flat wrong to claim “We know why CO2 is a greenhouse gas and that it will reduce the radiated energy [or the rate of radiated energy].

          Finally, simple real-world situations exist where all else being equal, the presence of a greenhouse gas surrounding a system results in lower (not higher) system temperatures. Thus, I believe it must be proven that atmospheric greenhouse gases will result in higher earth/earth-atmosphere temperatures–not simply accepted because the gas is a greenhouse gas.

          20

          • #
            Reed Coray

            I should clarify two things I said in the above comment. First, I interpreted frednk’s statement: “We know a body will radiate more energy if it is hotter…” to apply to two different bodies. That is, I interpreted frednk’s statement to imply a hotter body will radiate more energy than a different cooler body. On retrospect, I think this interpretation is likely a misrepresentation of what frednk wrote. I think a more reasonable interpretation is that frednk’s statement applies to a single body–not two different bodies. Using the single-body interpretation, the example of a 500,000 ton sphere and a 0.005 pound sphere does not apply to frednk’s statement, and as such does not constitute a valid argument that his statement is wrong. I still believe the concept of “restoring energy balance” [as opposed to “restoring energy-rate balance“} is incorrect, so that at a minimum it is misleading to say “if the planet warmed the radiated energy would increase and balance could be restored.

            Second, I wrote “All else being equal, the rate of radiated energy will be greater for the higher temperature object, ….” This statement applies only if the higher temperature object has the same radiation properties (shape/surface area/surface emissivity) as the lower temperature object, which implicitly assumes a “radiating surface area” can be associated with the object. The statement may or may not apply to radiation from a volume of gas–i.e., from a body for which radiation is not limited to a surface.

            10

        • #
          AndyG55

          “We know why CO2 is a greenhouse gas and that it will reduce the radiated energy.”

          This is totally and absolutely WRONG.

          It might reduce in a thin tiny weak band of frequencies, but the outgoing long wave radiation is no deviating from the atmospheric temperature, so no energy is being trapped

          Also, the proven, measured FACT of thermal equilibrium in the atmosphere proves that the gravity thermal gradient over-rides all other energy transfers.

          I know this is beyond your minor level of understanding of engineering and atmospheric physics, but there is no need to close your mind to things you do not have the ability to comprehend.

          Other than that.. you are basically talking gibberish. !

          00

        • #
          bobl

          Except the satellite analysis of outgoing IR shows that Increased warmth results in increased IR emission (Negative Feedback to warming) where climate models say increased warmth results in a water feedback that decreases outgoing IR (Positive Feedback to warming)

          So what you say is not verified by measurement, its one of the things the models get wrong. Satellite IR measurement confirm warming feedback is predominately Negative.

          10

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Frednk
      I await your response to the BOM’s Weather station fiasco !
      Surely you have looked at Ken Stewarts detailed examination of all 720 of them.
      And the fact that 326 are unfit for the purpose of giving accurate temperature observations ..
      We await your informed and measure critique with baited breath !

      90

      • #
        frednk

        It is nit picking. I go on about the melting of ice, I think that best illustrates the issue with temperature. Melting ice takes a lot of energy, while it is melting the temperature changes are small. Measuring the volume of ice converted to water is a much better measure. That is why NASA is putting a lot of effort into working out the Greenland ice volume.

        Increased sea ice proves nothing. Fresh water freezes at a higher temp than salt water. Change the salt concentration and you change the dynamics.

        The gulf steam stopping because there is too much fresh water at the pole, we know it can and has happened. Clearly if it slows down there will be less warm water from the tropics, and the ice sheet will grow.

        It is complicated, people make mistakes interpreting the data. To then accuse the scientist of being dumb or corrupt, that is crazy.

        The energy equations on the other hand are simple. If the energy in does not equal the energy out then the system has to store or give up energy.

        14

        • #
          Graeme Bird

          Yeah at least that screed isn’t completely stupid from a logical point of view. But no sorry. There hasn’t been any of that sort of melting going on. And in the past there is no record of the gulf stream being disrupted, except from big chunks of ice coming off Hudson Bay. As well as one time the melt-water lake breaking and landing on it.

          51

        • #
          AndyG55

          “I go on about the melting of ice”

          And make a total goose of yourself.

          1979 was an extreme high in Arctic sea ice.

          Arctic sea ice has trend zero for the last dozen or so years

          Arctic sea ice is still probably in the top 5% of the last 10,000 years

          So your “going on” about ice is based totally on your ignorant mantra based lack of knowledge that most of your other comments are based on.

          20

        • #
          AndyG55

          “Increased sea ice proves nothing.”

          So decreased sea ice can’t prove anything either. Thanks, bozo..

          10

        • #
          bobl

          The energy equations on the other hand are simple. If the energy in does not equal the energy out then the system has to store or give up energy

          Well perhaps then the fact that the CO2 energy absorption band is 85% saturated and that models assume that this can double … that is they assume CO2 can absorb/retain 170% of the outgoing IR energy. So what happens when climate scientist start claiming they can get more energy out than is put in (as they clearly do)?

          10

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Four hours later..
        No response….
        I hope he is not mullet stunned
        From reading Ken’s posts on the BOM fiasco !
        Perhaps his world view has collapsed entirely
        With profound psychological effects
        I HOPE SO !

        40

    • #
      AndyG55

      “actually pretty good at predicting the future”

      ummm.. NO !!

      Only when they keep changing the start point and the data. !

      60

      • #
        frednk

        Andy, every time you walk across a bridge, turn on a tap, fly in a plane or take a lift in a skyscraper you are depending on science giving the tool to engineers required to reliably predict the future. The prediction is pretty basic, the stuff will work and it won’t fall down.

        14

        • #
          Graeme Bird

          Andy, every time you walk across a bridge, turn on a tap, fly in a plane or take a lift in a skyscraper you are depending on science giving the tool to engineers required to reliably predict the future. The prediction is pretty basic, the stuff will work and it won’t fall down.

          Yeah. Thats why some of us are blue in the face angry with what is going on any we cannot encourage, let alone tolerate, science haters like yourself.

          50

        • #
          william x

          Frednk,

          Your quote

          “you are depending on science giving the tool to engineers required to reliably predict the future.”

          So Frednk, do you believe engineers can reliably predict the future, when scientists can’t?

          If you want reliable predictions re the future, I suggest you consult a Seer, a Psychic, the Bom, the ABC, the UN IPCC, your neighbour or a lazy journalist. They will have the answers.

          Stop bothering us engineers. We are busy making this planet a better place for all.

          20

        • #
          AndyG55

          OMG, you are linking known structural engineering with climate science?

          Really ? !!

          I suggest you stop commenting.

          You are only making an even bigger FOOL of yourself.

          10

    • #
      AndyG55

      Their prediction are actually pretty much JUNK.

      60

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    Moderately check first half;

    The ABCCCC and modern political institutions all the way down from the U.N. to local government councils are like a scum that floats on top of a pond and smothers it.

    We are a nation of three month smokos, courtesy of government avarice.

    Of closing industry and universities bursting at the seams with the unemployed. Empty shopfronts everywhere.

    Of schools teaching about rainbows or maybe just the idea of rainbows: anyhow, just go to uni and do a degree in rainbowism, or whatever.

    80

    • #
      Graeme Bird

      Its dysfunctional money and banking that is the main problem here Keith. Plenty of other problems sure. But thats the big one. There has got to be more producer goods per hectare then the workers to use them. So we don’t have the luxury of having all these loanable funds going to anything else, except producer goods and business renovation. And we need to redress this imbalanced

      ecology of business.

      Too many Mastodons and not enough monkeys. Too many hippos and not enough earth-worms.

      20

      • #
        Graeme Bird

        Sorry I was supposed to blacken “ecology of business.” Like this: Ecology Of Business Decades of bad policy and interest apartheid has lead to outrageous market imbalances.

        20

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        I guess what you are saying is that business activity must produce a nett benefit to society.

        That’s a good concept.

        At the moment we have a “renewables” paradigm that requires a our 50% more human input than any measured output.

        That doesn’t make sense.

        KK

        10

  • #
    Hal

    No “polite” conversation begins by calling your opponent names and the convenient shortening of their position to climate change obscures the fact, that for nearly 20 years, thats exactly what the CACC crowd have been denying.

    60

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Interesting, as Jo points out, there is nothing about actual policy, you know the stuff you act on. Also there is nothing about any human agency in climate change.

    So we are going to pretend that we have to do nothing to mitigate, only to adapt. In the meantime we will spend billions on submarines which are still being designed for a role which does not exist in our waters.

    This is still denial, and I can not see why you are so down on it.

    316

    • #
      Robber

      Please share with us all the “optimum” global temperature.
      Not too hot, not too cold, but just right.

      161

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        When – at night, in summer, at the tropics, on top of a mountain.

        Asinine comment of the day

        317

        • #
          AndyG55

          Yep, asinine comments is all you seem capable of.

          Your comment are invariably EMPTY and based on nothing but baseless anti-science garbage.

          141

        • #
        • #
          Graeme Bird

          Peter do you see the calf born on a frosty spring morning? I see her Peter. Do you see her? Do you see her? See the way she shivers? How she is stressed by the cold? How unlike our mothers her four-legged mother is not so well shaped to hold her and keep her warm?

          Supposing that little calf was fully adapted to the cold of that frosty spring morning? So well adapted that she felt no discomfort from the cold? Well in that case she would die on the first hot day of summer. So the discomfort of our animals in nature, is not aligned with average temperatures. Its aligned with temperature differentials.

          You and me are luckier than that calf. Because we can adapt through producer goods which help us make consumer goods, like houses, heaters, fur coats … this sort of thing. But we see that the natural world is more robust if temperature differentials are reduced. So far we don’t really have the evidence that these greenhouse gasses heat on a net global basis. Or cool on a net global basis. But we have powerfully strong evidence that they reduce heat differentials.

          Its hard to call myself a greenie but really I am. Its hard to call myself an environmentalist because bad people have damaged the label. So I’ll call myself a biodiversity fetishist with a sentimental affection for big-brained mammals.

          This is an ethical issue. Why do you want to make that little calf suffer so much? Do you yearn Peter Fitzroy. Do you yearn? If you yearn why do you yearn for a world that makes all the above ground organisms suffer more, and make nature less robust?

          And why is your heart so firmly set against slightly warmer winter mornings for the Lap-Landers? Aren’t we all brothers and sister when we come down to it?

          50

        • #
          Graeme Bird

          Testing fetishist. Testing differentials. Testing greenie. Testing Lap-Landers. Sorry just looking for the tripwire.

          40

      • #
        Robber

        1.0 °C of global warming has resulted in the world’s population increasing by about 6 billion since 1850.
        Yet we are supposed to believe “the science” that a further 0.5 °C of warming will be catastrophic?
        Can’t understand how those folks in Townsville are surviving compared to those in Hobart.

        150

        • #
          TdeF

          And increased CO2 has increased plant life by 50%, demonstrating clearly that CO2 levels are low and that CO2, not water or sunshine is the limiting factor.

          60

        • #
          WXcycles

          They leverage that 0.5 C rise by making sure electricity is much too expensive to use AC.

          80

    • #
      Deplorable Lord Kek

      So we are going to pretend that we have to do nothing to mitigate

      what’s mini-mal gonna do?

      declare war on china?

      because all our ‘mitigation’ efforts are worth about 0 if the big emitters do nothing.

      Of course, I have no problem with mitigation on a individual level.

      By all means klimate khange kultists should live in energy poverty, eat insects, refuse to fly, not use any coal generated products etc.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        I’m talking about policy, you on the other hand, are raving

        418

        • #
          Deplorable Lord Kek

          on the contrary, it is you who are raving, perhaps you need to look at your diet (not enough ants?)

          Policy is dictated by the possible.

          Mini-mal has no means to control the big emitters, therefore emission reduction is not possible in any meaningful sense.

          Anything Australia does to reduce its emissions will be wiped out in short order by the big emitters.

          I reiterate, again, that this should not stop true believers like yourself living the ‘low carbon’ dream.

          162

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Policy is dictated by the possible? Can you provide a reference which supports that?

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            • #
              Deplorable Lord Kek

              Can you provide a reference which supports that?

              See R M Eggleston, Generalisations and Experts, in William Twining (ed), Facts in Law (Franz Steiner, 1983) 22.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Just a link would have helped, I’ve not been able to find your reference – so I’m guessing that you don’t really have one, that is not weirdly about law

                A policy is a deliberate system of principles to guide decisions and achieve rational outcomes. A policy is a statement of intent, and is implemented as a procedure or protocol. Policies are generally adopted by a governance body within an organization. … Policy differs from rules or law.

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              • #
                Deplorable Lord Kek

                Laws (lex) enact government policies.

                A policy is a deliberate system of principles to guide decisions and achieve rational outcomes

                as impossible outcomes cannot be achieved, they are irrational.

                as, for instance, if you accept the unproven agw hypothesis, Australia legislating to reduce co2 emissions when big emitters continue to emit will do 0 to stop agw / climate change.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                What is exactly unproven? The science is in.

                315

              • #
                AndyG55

                “What is exactly unproven? The science is in.”

                Yes, it has been proven.. the science is in

                The atmosphere is in thermal equilibrium and as such, the so-called greenhouse effect does not exist.

                There is NO EVIDENCE that human released CO2 has any warming effect at all on the atmosphere.

                151

              • #
                Deplorable Lord Kek

                What is exactly unproven? The science is in.

                Nope.

                Two basic points:
                (1) the null hypothesis (it’s natural) has never been rebutted.
                (2) there are no accurate temperature measurements (but ‘climate scientists’ treat them as syllogistically demonstrated apodeictic certitudes).

                German climate physicist Prof. Dr. Horst-Joachim Lüdecke:

                “It is senseless to favor a certain hypothesis – senseless according to our still valid scientific paradigm – when no confirming measured data can be shown to support it. One can occupy himself with a hypothesis, put it at the center of his research, and even have complete faith in it. However one cannot use it as a basis for taking rational action without first having confirmed measurements. In summary: If we cannot observe any unusual climate activity since 1850 compared to the times before that, then we have no choice but to assume natural climate change.””

                https://notrickszone.com/2015/01/06/german-physicist-sees-dangerous-return-to-medieval-scholasticism-climate-models-have-failed-conclusively/

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              • #
                robert rosicka

                Where is this science that’s in Fitz ?

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              • #

                Deplorable Lord Kek, and everyone else,

                whatever you do, don’t ever get sucked in to providing a ‘link’ to the person who uses the screen name of Peter Fitzroy.

                I noticed Kek that you did mention (32.2.1.1.1) in the text where to look, and note the response in his next comment that no. he wanted the link only.

                He has proven time and again that he will not take links, and waffles whenever it is pointed out.

                It’s a ploy he uses supposedly thinking it will tie you up looking for obscure references.

                A few times now I have included totally and utterly completely unrelated references when he has asked for links. The first time I did it I thought maybe he just didn’t get back to it, but on a number of further times, I was very careful in what I did, and there was absolutely no comeback whatsoever, and you know how he ‘bites’, so he would certainly have commented on that, but nothing.

                So, now I know he does not take links, even though he says he has, I will never provide him one when asked.

                He has a further comeback, when HE is asked for links, and that is to go look on the internet yourself.

                Be careful of Fitzroy. He’s only here to call us all [email protected] with everything he says. He does not want to learn anything new, and he has also proved that.

                His only other ploy is to change the subject as a distraction, draw you away from the point you are making, and in the process, draw others away from it as well, by flooding the response with one liners that people will react to rather than address the original point, now lost way up the list of his inane and meaningless comments.

                I’m actually glad people like him come here. He knows absolutely that we are not accepted at any other sites, and our comments we do leave at any of those sites are moderated out so they never appear, contrary to what he gets away with here. However, he uses that freedom to his own advantage to just call all of us [email protected] and attempt to tie us up with distractions. What it does do is to show us the low depths that some will sink to in an attempt to think they are contributing.

                I apologise for this comment, but he is the one who is actually deplorable, not you Kek.

                Tony.

                202

              • #
                AndyG55

                “Where is this science that’s in Fitz ?”

                In his FANTASY addled mind.

                Hence he is totally unable to produce it as REALITY.

                60

              • #
                WXcycles

                What is exactly unproven? The science is in.

                Re the max temps observed globally during the 1930′s compared to Jan 2020, please explain how AGW “special scienciness” indicates and differentiates the 1930′s temperature range, as a natural global warming period, while the pre and post Hiatus 2020′s temperature range (i.e. about the same as the 1930′s) is all catastrophical-Anthropogen-nickery stuffs?

                And while you’re at it, please attempt to explain this as well – some actual science:

                https://notrickszone.com/2018/05/03/its-here-a-1900-2010-instrumental-global-temperature-record-that-closely-aligns-with-paleo-proxy-data/

                80

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Tony,

                “what he gets away with here.”

                That’s the issue.

                50

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘Policy is dictated by the possible?’

              That is the precautionary principle.

              ‘Can you provide a reference which supports that?’

              No.

              82

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Which side are you on?

                I’m asking why we are not developing policy – in energy, environment, and in climate.

                Your good friend DLK who made that statement

                314

              • #
                el gordo

                I have cognitive dissonance, but going back to your original question.

                ‘So we are going to pretend that we have to do nothing to mitigate, only to adapt.’

                Yes, because adaptation is best against natural variables.

                ‘In the meantime we will spend billions on submarines which are still being designed for a role which does not exist in our waters.’

                I totally agree with you on this.

                100

              • #
                Deplorable Lord Kek

                ‘Policy is dictated by the possible?’

                That is the precautionary principle.

                No, the precautionary principle “is a strategy for approaching issues of potential harm when extensive scientific knowledge on the matter is lacking”

                I am saying that government policy should not be predicated on irrational or impossible outcomes.

                90

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                As adaptation is a response to a changing climate (say like building to withstand fire as an example) mitigation is a way of minimising the adaptation necessary (an example would be reducing fuel loads). Without a policy and with a refusal to produce one, adaptation is the only string for the bow.

                311

              • #
                AndyG55

                “changing climate”

                Natural climate variability should be catered for by making sure we have the strongest, most reliable electricity supply system we can

                Wind and solar can only ever be a tiny part of that because of their inherent UNRELIABILITY.

                121

              • #
                AndyG55

                “and in climate.”

                As nothing we can do will affect the naturally variability of the climate, why do we need a policy except to do our best to adapt and cater for possible contingencies, warming, cooling and WEATHER events.

                121

              • #
                AndyG55

                “say like building to withstand fire as an example”

                That is not an adaptation to a changing climate

                That is just plain common sense in a bush-fire prone country.

                You do know what common sense is, don’t you.

                Probably not, you have never exhibited any.

                101

              • #
                AndyG55

                “an example would be reducing fuel loads”

                Which is what the greenie agenda that infests local councils has made very difficult to do properly.

                111

              • #
                AndyG55

                “I’m asking why we are not developing policy – in energy”

                Because the CORRECT policy of using our bountiful coal supply, and building at least one new HELE type power station in each state is being held back by the childish idiocy and anti-science of the yelping and screaming greenie agenda and ABC.

                Politician are too scared to do the correct thing.

                91

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Which side are you on? I’m asking why we are not developing policy – in energy, environment, and in climate.

                Thats fine. I’ve been over at Quiggins developing holistic poilicy. Years on quora developing policy. I come here I talk about policy. But if I present it here, you are just going to keep typing. You aren’t going to LISTEN!!!!!

                Thats the problem. Some of us develop the policy and no-one is interested.

                10

            • #
              AndyG55

              “I’ve not been able to find your reference”

              That’s because you never looked.

              31

            • #
              AndyG55

              “Policy is dictated by the possible?”

              Greenie policy is dictated by mindless ignorant whims, fakery, fantasy, virtue signalling and lies.

              81

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          As Kek says; lead by example.

          90

        • #
          AndyG55

          “I’m talking about policy”

          And your policy is to lie your ass off, ignore any actual science, and pretend you actually know things you are totally ignorant of.

          61

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Deplorable Lord Keck
          The Null hypothesis not rebutted – hunh, in fact double hunh. The null is never rebutted, it is an either/or proposition.
          As to the german scientist here in his own words “Climate Specialist I’m not. […] My criticism is well founded and professionally sound mix, but [I am] not a specialist in technical details of climate physics.”

          And for TinyfromOS
          Did you mange to find the paper referred to? As I went on to say, I could not find it online, which is why I asked for the link. But I know that reading more than one sentence at a siting is hard for you.

          210

          • #
            Deplorable Lord Kek

            The Null hypothesis not rebutted – hunh, in fact double hunh. The null is never rebutted, it is an either/or proposition.

            The null hypothesis is what a scientist tries to REBUT or REFUTE.

            “Definition of rebut

            1 : to drive or beat back : repel
            2a : to contradict or oppose by formal legal argument, plea, or countervailing proof
            b : to expose the falsity of : refute’”

            https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rebut

            As to the german scientist here in his own words “Climate Specialist I’m not. […] My criticism is well founded and professionally sound mix, but [I am] not a specialist in technical details of climate physics.”

            (1) He’s more qualified than you.

            (2) Qualifications are irrelevant to the assessment of an argument from expert opinion: “If one is appealing to an authority, it is more adequate to look not only at the authority’s conclusions but also at his reason’s and arguments.” (Finocchiaro, The Galileo Affair, 1980).

            Anyone can reasonably point out a failure by an expert to conform to basic scientific standards.

            That failure is a good reason to reject the expert’s opinion.

            (3) You seem to confuse deontic (administrative) authority and epistemic authority. ie you think because X is a ‘climate scientist’ we must accept their conclusion, no matter how they got there. Completely wrong. You might get away with an argument like that at the pub (or at the ABC), not here.

            60

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              Science is not law – please keep that in front of mind, there is a discarding of the null (and this is mainly in statistics). But the Null can not exist without the alternate – that is why it is an either/or proposition. Now if you are saying that the Null is true (not rebutted in you words) then there should be plenty of published data to back that up. What I see is the opposite, publication after publication supporting the alternate.

              There are many more qualified than me, or you, I fail to see why you are bring that up. Unless of course you are only allowed to contribute
              1) in your Field of expertise.
              2) and then only if you have a world wide recognition.

              Again a nice logical ploy, but not cutting the mustard on the internet now is it? After all if you held to this standard what would you comment on?

              27

              • #
                AndyG55

                Total lack of comprehension of science, as always.

                Null exists, and you need to prove it is not correct.

                And you have FAILED UTTERLY and COMPLETELY!!

                81

              • #
                AndyG55

                “publication after publication supporting the alternate.”

                And yet you cannot produce anything with any actual DATA.

                So sad, so pathetic.. so YOU. !

                71

              • #
                AndyG55

                “There are many more qualified than me”

                Like a three toed sloth, for example.

                You do not comprehend LOGIC or SCIENCE.

                61

              • #
                AndyG55

                It is noted that YET AGAIN, you run away from producing any actual empirical evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2

                You keep pretending you are trying to argue “the science”, but you have NONE. !!

                Trouble is, that empirical evidence has now shown that the troposphere is in thermodynamic equilibrium

                That means there is no observable greenhouse effect.. PERIOD. !!

                61

              • #
                AndyG55

                Fact is, the null hypothesis,

                … being that climate changes naturally, like it always has,

                … has never been re-butted by empirical science.

                If you think it has, the please produce empirical evidence that it has been..

                we are waiting… waiting… waiting… zzzzzzzzᶻᶻᶻᶻᶻᶻᶻ

                You can put forward all the fantasy memes that you like, but unless you first prove the NULL hypothesis is false……

                you have nothing!

                31

              • #
                AndyG55

                Fact is, the null hypothesis,

                … being that climate changes naturally, like it always has,

                … has never been re-butted by empirical science.

                If you think it has, the please produce empirical evidence that it has been..

                we are waiting… waiting… waiting… zzzzzzzzᶻᶻᶻᶻᶻᶻᶻ

                You can put forward all the unproven fantasy memes that you like, but unless you first prove the null hypothesis is false……

                you have nothing !!!

                61

              • #
                Deplorable Lord Kek

                Science is not law – please keep that in front of mind

                Law requires an evaluation of arguments from expert opinion.

                However, that type argument is ultimately founded on informal logic, not law (see eg. Plato, Laches, 184e-185a).

                Now if you are saying that the Null is true (not rebutted in you words) then there should be plenty of published data to back that up. What I see is the opposite, publication after publication supporting the alternate.

                You produce empirical or virtual evidence to the effect (1) the world is warming; (2) the climate is changing.

                You never produce empirical evidence to the effect that (1) or (2) is caused by rising levels of co2.

                That is because such evidence does not exist.

                e.g. Here are the warming trends from 1860, courtesy of Phil Jones:

                1860-1880 0.163
                1910-1940 0.15
                1975-1998 0.166
                1975-2009 0.161

                No accelerated warming.

                No co2 signature/forcing.

                The null hypothesis remains intact: “If we cannot observe any unusual climate activity since 1850 compared to the times before that, then we have no choice but to assume natural climate change.”

                That is science.

                There are many more qualified than me, or you, I fail to see why you are bring that up.

                You are the one who likes to quote authority, but you are happy to disregard authority when it suits you.

                It demonstrates your lack of consistency / unreasonableness.

                Unless of course you are only allowed to contribute 1) in your Field of expertise. 2) and then only if you have a world wide recognition.

                Again a nice logical ploy, but not cutting the mustard on the internet now is it? After all if you held to this standard what would you comment on?

                All of which is irrelevant, as I said: “Anyone can reasonably point out a failure by an expert to conform to basic scientific standards.”

                50

          • #
            AndyG55

            There is no evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2.

            Recent studies have shown the troposphere to be in thermal equilibrium,

            so any mythical “greenhouse effect” must be being cancelled immediately by the gravity based thermal gradient.

            I know this is very hard for your nil-educated and feeble greenie-sludge mind to comprehend, but there is nothing anyone can do to help that.

            71

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              so any mythical “greenhouse effect” must be being cancelled immediately by the gravity based thermal gradient.

              Well that sounds kind of right. But this idea of a gravity based thermal gradient is a devilishly hard idea to get ones head around. Is there a place where this is explained really well? This sounds a lot like that Connolly father and son team doing great and original work. I must confess to never quite grasping the lapse rate.

              41

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                The other possibility is that the ‘warming effect’ of CO2 is so small that the crude methods of the IPCC and followers cannot find it,

                41

              • #
                AndyG55

                “But this idea of a gravity based thermal gradient is a devilishly hard idea to get ones head around.”

                Not really.

                Gravity acting on air, gives the air weight.

                Now consider a bundle of air….

                … the more air above that bundle, pushing downwards, the more energy that bundle of air has to possess internally (kinetic energy) to hold that air above it up.

                Kinetic energy generally represents as temperature.

                Hence you get a “pressure/density/internal-energy” gradient decreasing from the surface to the upper parts of the atmosphere.

                That’s the simplest explanation I can give you without going deeper into uni level structural analysis, hydrology etc..

                61

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                I’ve given you a green tick for being so honest, in the face of being ridiculed because of your lack of scientific awareness.

                KK

                30

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Thanks Andy. I will philosophise over this matter for some time.

                10

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Andy, it’s a waste of time trying to explain it to him.
                I suspect he has trouble working out which foot to move next while walking.
                This is several orders of magnitude more complex.

                You talking about me [snip]ED?

                20

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                [SNIP!]

                10

              • #
                tom0mason

                Graeme Bird,

                You may wish to look here at Ned Nikolov, Ph.D. twitter feed where he has something to say about his observations of rocky planets with gaseous atmospheres. This link is to the ‘sticky’ post he has about the laymans guide to his research.

                https://twitter.com/NikolovScience/status/1054513791084322817
                The comments down this post are most insightful. He also has links to his full research papers on the twitter feed.

                20

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Good explanation Andy. Now why do you think the lapse rate reverses in the Stratosphere? So if what you are saying is mostly correct, and no doubt it is, then your model (standard science or otherwise) should be able to explain the reverse effect as well. Not playing silly-buggers but your answer could throw light on a lot of other stuff going on.

                See apriori your explanation ought to provide an explanation for the lapse rate going one way and then the lapse rate going the other. Unless there are confounding factors. Not wanting to be the hammer that sees every problem as a nail. But supposing you couldn’texplain both lapse rates using the same explanation? Then we’d be forced to at least take under consideration a secondary energy source right? And even as good as your explanation is, no slight to you, but its not quite 100% is it?

                … the more air above that bundle, pushing downwards, the more energy that bundle of air has to possess internally (kinetic energy) to hold that air above it up.

                If it wants to hold the air up sure its going to need that energy. You’d want to refine the explanation a bit. Because we talk in this metaphorical way but the air doesn’t really want to do anything.

                Okay so when we compress air it creates a higher temperature. Temperature controls the direction of thermal energy, so the compressed air loses that thermal energy. So then when we release the pressure of that air gets a refrigeration effect. Unless we are fantastically over-rating the radiation capacity of air, and underestimating the heat insulation qualities of air, its hard to see this explanation of yours as being complete. It could be just a mental block peculiar to me. But if everyone could get their explanations of the lapse rate just as superb as they could get them, I think it would throw a fantastic amount of enlightenment on this whole subject. Not just a small amount of enlightenment. But a huge amount.

                If we can just get it as good as we can get it, I think this would be very helpful. Not saddling you up with extra duties here. But just putting the thought out there.

                Like Death Valley doesn’t have the best sources of CO2 and water vapour. But it keeps punishing heat, and I believe is pretty nasty hot even overnight. So that implies that the insulation powers of the air are very significant. Or it implies something about what you are saying about the lapse rate. Being as Death Valley is well below sea level.

                Still I find that the story is not quite complete.

                I’ve given you a green tick for being so honest, in the face of being ridiculed because of your lack of scientific awareness.

                I’ll take that as a confession that you are the troglodyte that downvotes me no matter how good my posts are. Can you stop signing off KK? Being anonymous thats like a sort of provocation. Or some sort of huge wank factor. Now if you are supposing that you are the expert on lapse rates you might want to peel one more layer off the onion where Andy has started.

                00

          • #
            AndyG55

            And little peter shows yet again that he is clueless of bsic scientific principles.

            No surprise there, at all. !!

            “I could not find it online”

            I found it in a few seconds

            Your incompetence is renowned, and proven.

            71

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              of course you did

              37

              • #
                AndyG55

                And of course YOU didn’t !!

                41

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Andy is right Peter. I cannot find this CO2 warming. I thought I could and I actually thought I’d found some. Because I went away and came back after many years, and looked at the satellite record. To my surprise the last few years was held to be continuing a warming trend I expected to have tapped out with the weak solar cycle 24. So “there it is” I thought. Just a scintilla of beneficial CO2-warming made visible for the very first time.

                But it turned out to be just political pressure forcing the guys who were producing the graph to tilt it upward some, roughly in the time period that I’d been looking the other way.

                So I couldn’t find this warming and I actually looked. So if you were brought up right. And if Momma Fitzroy is a good woman, I think you should find this warming for us. Because I could not find it.

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          • #
            Graeme Bird

            Look Peter. If you have the evidence give it up [snip]. This is a character issue. If Fitzroy has the evidence then Fitzroy must present the evidence. He cannot hold out on us. I want to find it and I’ll be happy to find it. I suspect it will warm in some areas where the air is very dry and cool in other areas as extra C02 blocks radiation above water vapor level.

            But if Fitzroy has the evidence then he must hand it over. He cannot be a little [snip] about it.

            51

          • #
            Graeme Bird

            There is no such thing as a “null hypothesis.” This is bad Popperism. Forget Popper. A feeble philosopher. Weak and feeble epistemology. There are only competing hypotheses in parallel and if you have less than three you are doing it wrong.

            10

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              One thing that bugs me about all this Popperism by good and bad thinkers alike is that we had a fantastically superior local philosopher home-grown. His name was David Stove. He was basically a logical positivist and this school of thought is pretty much dead. And for my own part I don’t really think that deductive bivalent exactitude is the bees knees when it comes to epistemology. But this guy was such a top performer that his apparent suicide becomes deeply suspicious.

              You appreciate philosophers for their aptitude rather than what they come up with. So you can appreciate the stunning work of Aquinas without being a Catholic. You can appreciate the excellence of Robert Nozick without being a minarchist. And actually when Nozick saw what was transpiring he had to back away from his early minarchism. But still seeing a really skilled philosopher in action is a great pleasure.

              But our local boy was so much superior to the latter, and maybe almost as good as the former. And we have this cringe factor where we don’t want to follow the homegrown stuff.

              All three of these fellows died way to early. Thats suspicious right there.

              10

        • #
          Graeme Bird

          We know the policy. Soil development via land hydration as the first step. For the continent entire. That solves the problem of droughts, floods, fires, the non-existent problem of high CO2 (to better suit your mood) and even heat waves once plant transpiration is continent-wide.

          20

    • #
      AndyG55

      “Also there is nothing about any human agency in climate change. “

      Nor should there be, because as you keep proving, there is no empirical evidence that human caused climate change actually exists.

      In fact, latest balloon research shows that the troposphere is in thermal equilibrium, and hence there is no actual greenhouse effect at all.

      The gravity based thermal gradient RULES.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “pretend that we have to do nothing to mitigate”

      There is NOTHING too mitigate except real actual pollution.

      CO2 is not in that category and as it has no effect on the atmosphere except enhanced plant growth,

      there is absolutely NO REASON to mitigate CO2 emissions

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “This is still denial”

      Again, what is it that we DENY that you have actual empirical evidence for?

      Climate changes naturally, always has, always will

      There is no evidence that human released CO2 has affected the climate

      There is NOTHING TO DENY.

      111

    • #
      AndyG55

      ” In the meantime we will spend billions on submarines which are still being designed for a role which does not exist in our waters.”

      Labor party policy.. ! Just another total cock-up in other words.

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      • #
        TdeF

        As Tony Abbott also said, the ‘new’ diesel submarines (because we think nuclear submarines are dangerous) are worse than what we have. That about sums it up. $60Bn for nothing. And we have 7 days supply of diesel in the country and we import everything except food by sea and all our incomes is from seaborne exports. Not the clever country. Even the regular trolls are bottom of the barrel.

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Given that the contract for the subs was signed in 2109 I fail to see how the Labor party could have been involved. The I remembered that every single thing that tAntyg55 says is 180 degrees away from the truth. By the way have you settled up with Matt over your 7 failure to predict, what was it? ENSO or sum such. Doesn’t matter as you are easy prey, being always wrong as you are

          38

          • #
            AndyG55

            You display your ignorance yet again, is their any limit to it.. seems not. !!

            The sub contract was all down to Labor.

            Settled so the Liberals couldn’t pull out of it.

            But you knew that didn’t you. Deliberate LIES as always. ;-)

            —————————————-

            Any evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2 yet, clueless clown. ?

            Utter and complete FAILURE, as always.

            81

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              prove it troll boy – The liberal had plenty of time to negate the deal, but they didn’t – look to those in power, which has not been Labor, or the Greens

              311

              • #
                AndyG55

                Great to see you ADMIT it was initially a Labor deal.

                Thanks for playing, muppet :-)

                71

              • #
                AndyG55

                Now back to the real topic..

                Tell us what we DENY that you can produce actual scientific evidence for.

                Stop your petty and childish attempts at distraction.

                81

              • #
                Bill In Oz

                Ahem Fittzles !
                Your attention please ?
                I notice that you decline to make any comment about the BOM weather station fiasco.
                But only 326 out of 720 of the BOM’s weather stations are ‘Bombed out” as they do not meet the BOM’s own guidelines.
                Surely with your acute awareness & knowledge of all things ‘climatish’, you can mount a stirring defence of the BOM ?
                We await your pearls of wisdom with bated breath !
                Say on Fitz !

                90

              • #
                Bill In Oz

                Fritzles, are you there ?
                Four hours have passed and I am still here waiting for you response to Ken Stewart’s
                Examination of the BOM’s weather stations.
                Ohhhh well, perhaps like Fred, your world has been shattered
                And you are in deep psychological shock
                From actually reading how your heroes at the BOM
                Have stuffed things up completely.
                At least I HOPE SO !

                50

          • #
            AndyG55

            You are pretending Turnbull was a Liberal ??

            So funny !!

            70

            • #
              TdeF

              And the Black Hand, Christopher Pyne, South Australian and Defence minister. Julie Bishop, party girl who gave $400Million away to Global Warming. These were Abbott’s assassins, the popular elected Prime Minister who was replaced by a Green who won by accident by one seat. Between Gillard and Turnbull, we Australians have been very badly treated.

              Now why didn’t those Pink Batts save us? Or the Education Revolution? Or perhaps Rudd’s 2020 conference might have wished for no devastating bushfires, but Cate Blanchette wants us to stop using fossil fuels. Actors as advisers. We could not be worse off.

              What I loved about Ricky Gervaise is that he called them out at the Golden Globes. Most of them have less education than dropout Grumpy Greta.

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            • #
              hatband

              AndyG55 said:

              You are pretending Turnbull was a Liberal ??

              So funny !!

              So, if Turnbull wasn’t a Liberal, why did the Liberal Party preselect him 5 times, and

              support his Leadership twice?

              12

          • #
            tom0mason

            Peter Fitzroy,

            If as you contend “Antyg55 says is 180 degrees away from the truth.” then show it to be so with evidence from actual observations and documents.
            As usual you just write unsubstantiated politics mixed with some nasty emotional name calling.

            51

      • #
        WXcycles

        ” In the meantime we will spend billions on submarines which are still being designed for a role which does not exist in our waters.”

        Labor party policy.. ! Just another total cock-up in other words.

        It may have been the dribbling Krudd who originally proposed 9 new subs but it was the defence and industry clowns in the Lib/Nats under Mal & Jewels who sellected and approved then negotiated and signed us up to this monumental submarine c_ck-up.

        Credit where credit is due.

        71

        • #
          AndyG55

          Turnbull had to keep his back-hand anti-Liberal party mate, Pyne in parliament.

          Losing Pyne would have meant he lost the election, and one of his fellow Liberal Party destroyers.

          71

          • #
            AndyG55

            Tony Abbott favoured the Japanese production, but once he was deposed, Labor and the Green basically forced Turnbull to choose the French..

            Conroy even bragged about that fact.

            81

          • #
            hatband

            Losing Pyne would have meant he lost the election, and one of his fellow Liberal Party destroyers.

            Doesn’t make any sense.

            When Turnbull called the July 2 2016 Election in late May, he was riding high in the

            Polls, and on course to increase the Majority from 2013.

            While he may or may not have been averse to helping Pyne in Sturt, there was no

            indication at that time that they would lose 15 Liberal, LNP, and CLP Seats.

            01

    • #
      el gordo

      The late Bob Carter was leading the charge a decade ago, adapt to climate change.

      “This view points toward setting a policy of preparation for, and adaptation to, climatic events and change as they occur, which is distinctly different from the former emphasis given by most Western parliaments to the mitigation of global warming by curbing carbon dioxide emissions.”

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    • #
      Fred Streeter

      Mitigate what?

      Climate Change?
      In which case you must know which aspects of this Change require mitigation.
      Then the discussion of how they are to be mitigated can commence.

      As far as the UK is concerned, there is nothing to mitigate as regards Climate Change.

      As regards real Environmental Mitigation, we have steadily reduced UK emissions from the 1958 Clean Air Act onward.

      Ah! “Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive,
      But to be young was very heaven!”

      But now, just as with the French Revolution, innocents (like CO2) are being dragged to the Guillotine.

      21

      • #
        WXcycles

        Once you make electricity unaffordable, unreliable and economy increasingly non-competitive plus much less diverse, plus constantly attack the energy-sector and exports, effective rapid adaptation options shrink.

        As far as the UK is concerned, there is nothing to mitigate as regards Climate Change.

        Same for most states, it blows my mind when Euros whine like babies about a ‘record’ temp day. They don’t even know what a hot day is. And they’re very survivable, if they weren’t Oz GDP would not have grown for 29 years straight, despite such ludicrous politics and incompetence. One of the biggest drags on that growth is unaffordable, unreliable non-competitive electricity prices. The green-scum’s Trojan Horse was aimed for the electricity generators because it’s the best path to maximizing damage the economy to weaken and undermine the country.

        And our politicians and political parties just went along with it, they wheeled the greenies Trojan Horse right into the middle of the electrical generation industry, then went to sleep for 15 years!

        20

  • #
    Brian

    Of course the climate is changing. We are still coming out of the little ice age. Yes the increase in CO2 partial pressure is a contributor but far from the only one. There are extremes at both sides of the debate. The Greta like fanatics, many of whom seem to be employed by the national broadcaster who see salvation in the destruction of the economy and a regressing nation and the scientific illiterate who believe that greenhouse gasses are a fantasy. In the middle are 99% of the population who just want the lights to come in when they flick a switch, do not want to have a heart attack when they get their electricity bill and would like to see more water and power infrastructure built to compensate for the demand caused by an unsustainable level of immigration. Unfortunately the extremes are vocal and often violent, the squeaking wheels that frighten politicians.

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    • #
      John

      I wish it was 99%. I’m hearing more and more friends, family and colleagues reciting the warmist message.

      “We must end coal”
      “Australia is on fire! Morrison must be held to account!”
      “97% of scientists”

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Yes the increase in CO2 partial pressure is a contributor…’

      No its not.

      ‘ … and the scientific illiterate who believe that greenhouse gasses are a fantasy.’

      Hmmm … do you believe CO2 is an invisible blanket?

      91

      • #
        Brian

        No, but I do know that CO2 is excited by long wave radiation in two minor windows centred on 2.7 and 4.3 µM and a major band centred on 15 µM which coincides with a major IR emission frequency from the Earth’s surface. The IR energy causes the the molecule to vibrate and bend and it will then will release the energy to return to its steady state. The emissions vector is not constrained and may go in any direction including towards the surface. This effect has been empirically measured from lower troposphere to top of atmosphere to establish the energy budget at CO2 influence frequencies. This has established that the escaping IR (heat) radiation at top of atmosphere decreased at the discrete CO2 frequencies, commensurate with to CO2 partial pressure increases. In other words energy is being retained and the Earth’s energy equilibrium changes to reflect higher surface temperature. Not a blanket, not a reflector but pretty straightforward particle physics proven both in laboratory testing and empirical atmospheric measurement. Now anyone can stick their fingers in their ears like a child and and scream I can’t hear you or make unsubstantiated claims that the greenhouse effect doesn’t exist because, well, they say do. Such is a basic right. But that does not change the facts.

        27

        • #
          WXcycles

          What changes the facts is the higher global humidity.

          51

        • #
          AndyG55

          PROVEN by measurement:

          Troposphere is in thermal equilibrium.

          CO2 cannot make any difference.. PERIOD. !!

          61

        • #
          AndyG55

          “empirical atmospheric measurement”

          There are no empirical measurements showing the cause of the highly beneficial warming out of the LIA was in any way caused by human released CO2.

          Produce them, if you really “believe” there is.

          91

        • #
          AndyG55

          “In other words energy is being retained”

          WRONG

          Only shows that CO2 absorbs in a couple of narrow frequencies. Does not show this causes any warming. Any absorbed energy is dealt with by the over-riding energy transfers due to the gravity based thermal gradient

          There is no deviation of OLR with tropospheric temperatures over time

          No energy is being trapped. !

          Now anyone can stick their fingers in their ears to DENY the basic facts, and keep sprouting the minimal science understanding of the AGW meme.

          61

          • #
            frednk

            The graph you linked to shows a rising temperature? What is your point. The energy being trapped is in melting sea ice, rising sea temperature, increasing wind speeds etc. and so on.

            26

            • #
              AndyG55

              “The energy being trapped is in melting sea ice, rising sea temperature, increasing wind speeds”

              What a load of rubbish !!

              Melting sea ice… NOPE.

              Rising sea temperature.. some solar surface warming, but elsewise unmeasurable.

              Increased wind speed.. Hurricane and cyclone speeds are dwown, if anything.

              Its just copy/paste stuff from you, isn’t it.

              Regurgitate what the AGW mantra tells you.. no need to check facts first.

              21

          • #
            tom0mason

            And of course AndyG55 there is that little matter of how long CO2 can hold on to that energy (if it actually got any) in the atmosphere.

            The main problem with the ‘CO2 warming the atmosphere’ supposition is that atmospheric measurements do not show the tiny amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has an effect other than beneficially greening the planet. Also historic records show that atmospheric CO2 is a lagging effect to planetary warming and not a cause of it.

            51

        • #
          AndyG55

          Come on Brian, where is you empirical evidence of warming by human released atmospheric CO2?

          You do know that warming by atmospheric CO2 has never been observed or measured in the Earth’s atmosphere, don’t you.

          Waiting for your “science” instead of mantra regurgitation.

          61

        • #
          AndyG55

          Did you know the collision time of CO2 in the lower atmosphere is several magnitudes more frequent than the re-emittance?

          CO2 does not get much of a chance a chance to re-emit below about 11km altitude
          .

          Mean free path of CO2 radiation at sea level is some 10m !!

          51

    • #
      AndyG55

      “and the scientific illiterate who believe that greenhouse gasses are a fantasy”

      You have yet to provide any evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2

      In fact, measurements have shown that the troposphere is in thermal equilibrium, so even if this mythical “greenhouse effect ” did exist, it is immediately countered by the gravity based thermal gradient

      So to all intents and purposes, the greenhouse warming effect DOES NOT EXIST.

      That is what SCIENCE and MEASUREMENT tells us.

      The scientific illiterates are the ones that just “believe”, without any empirical evidence at all.

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    • #
      WXcycles

      99.959% of the atmosphere is not CO2.

      81

  • #
    George4

    David Attenborough criticises Australian government, says ‘moment of crisis’ has come
    “As I speak, south-east Australia is on fire. Why?
    Because the temperatures of the Earth are increasing.
    Attenborough’s interview was part of the BBC’s drive to increase coverage of climate change ahead of a UN conference on climate change, COP 26, in Glasgow in November 2020.

    Seriously, have they even been able to supply a half credible scientific analysis and reasoning of why a warming climate would make bushfires in Australia worse ?
    I sometimes wonder whether Attenborough’s approaching death (he’s 93 after all) is somehow confused in his mind with a global crisis.
    ABC gets paid a billion just to repeat half of the BBCs content and propaganda.

    Glasgow in November ?
    Half frozen delegates will be fun to see.
    They will probably be secretly praying for a warming climate there.

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    • #
      John

      I really like Attenborough, and the warnings he’s given over the years have generally been right. We have plundered and polluted the oceans, and removed too many forests etc. But on this one it’s disappointing. Just regurgitation of the warming message.

      64

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        His past decent stuff is now too polluted with his propaganda BS.
        He’s now an old fool !

        40

      • #
        WXcycles

        I watched Attenborough for years and enjoyed it, but then he turned into the blatantly dishonest activist he is today. Any pretense of objectivity has gone completely out the window.

        I’ll always remember Attenborough while watching him during his GBR doco series, as he credulously sat beside this fantastically dishonest Australian marine biologist clown from JCU, who dropped a lump of coral into a glass lab fish-tank, full of sulfuric acid, and watched it furiously fizzing off CO2 bubbles. Then the two of them yapped utter fantasy and nonsense about how CO2 had made the oceans acidic, and the GBR was doomed to that fate – ’cause Humans.

        An absolutely shameless lie pretending to be scientific fact.

        I’ve not watch a single thing Attenborough’s done since then, the man is a BBC liar and deceiver or else just an incomprehensibly stupid idiot. Either way I didn’t see any of Walrus-Gate or anything else since, not even excerpts of that sham on youtube. I’ve nothing but disgust for Attenborough’s and his horrendous dishonesty. He’s not recanted or apologized for any of it, so he’s fully implicated in doing it – the lowest of all TV ‘science’ scoundrels, IMO.

        (I even had a bunch of books from his earlier TV series, which were given to me by a girlfriend, and they all went in the dumpster the next morning)

        40

  • #
    Michael

    NT News published a story – well “Opinion” piece from one of their writers here:

    https://www.ntnews.com.au/news/opinion/the-time-has-come-for-a-measured-discussion-on-climate-change-in-the-wake-of-australias-bushfire-crisis/news-story/edba55b374791fc05426874434e8223c

    Which I am sure you can tell from the link what this story is about. Interestingly, the NT News has decided to publish comments that throw mud at the NT news, many related to this story reently:

    https://www.ntnews.com.au/news/opinion/nt-news-abusive-comments-throwing-at-the-nt-news-4/news-story/38d043273af078bf5b73c643ca8fa531

    But for me, what was most telling, was that I have tried commenting a few times over the years on Climate stories – very rarely because it feels like a waste of time – but none of my comments have been allowed. All rejected:

    https://puu.sh/F0CS0/dd7230170c.png

    The above was my comment rejected from the above article. It seems it is ok for the NT News to publish expletive laden posts that are critical of them, and posts that are 100% supportive but a post that (I at least attempted) to be direct and to the point and correct some misinformation is “no acceptable” to the moderation team at the NT News.

    I guess they couldn’t really publish it under the throwing mud article, because then people would actually be able to read my comment – and thats a no no.

    30

    • #
      Another Ian

      Sounds like you didn’t start with a photo and headline about a croc?

      Rumour hath it that they wouldn’t have read further and would have publuished it.

      10

  • #
    George4

    His documentaries have some really great material, but I am a bit tired of the way Attenborough has to be inserted so prominently into almost every scene, like he is the star and the wildlife are just minor players.
    Other scientists have done all the research work, he is just a good script reader/narrator.
    And campaigning so much on the barrier reef “destruction” really helped coerce our politicians into wasting millions on “saving” it.

    30

  • #
    Furiously curious

    I’ve been thinking about the scales of temperature graphs that are trotted out, where the whole scale is often 1.5- 4.0 degrees. There seem to be huge spikes and falls, so it is obvious things are happening, but when we put it on a human scale — 0 – 35 degrees, it’s very difficult to see more than a straight line. Maybe Greta can detect rises or falls of .2 of a degree?

    Then yesterday WUWT came out with an essay with some graphs pointing this out.
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/15/while-noaa-nasa-claims-2019-as-the-second-warmest-year-ever-other-data-shows-2019-cooler-than-2005-for-usa/
    They have a couple of interesting new essays too.

    20

  • #
    Another Ian

    They’ll probably give this prediction a run too

    “Michael Mann Beclowns Himself with Aussie Climate Refugee Prediction”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/16/michael-mann-beclowns-himself-with-aussie-climate-refugee-prediction/

    30

  • #
    PeterS

    It appears we now have ABC V2.0; Sky News. Much of morning the presenters have been interviewing various people who are claiming climate change is the cause of the recent bush fires and that the government has to do more about it. When Bolt and others comes back from their well earned holidays they will have to work overtime to bring reality back into Sky News.

    80

    • #
      robert rosicka

      The so called sky after dark blasphemer’s , can’t wait for them all to get back on and even out the debate .

      60

      • #
        PeterS

        Indeed. In fact I hope they given the rest hell. They just need to watch their backs. If they all worked together they would be a powerful force to turn things around and not only even out the debate but also promote strongly the theme that CAGW is a scam, and anyone who says otherwise is a hater of the truth and the West (not necessarily the same).

        40

  • #
  • #
    WXcycles

    Although the backbench MP has only 38,000 “fans” on the social media platform, compared to 231,000 for Mr Morrison and 124,000 for Mr Albanese, he regularly outperforms both men on engagement – particularly the number of people sharing his content.

    All it took was a bit of honesty, principle and backbone. People realize Craig Kelly isn’t trying to fake having those things, he is those things. Pauline Hansen is the same, and people like that in both of them. People are also sure their primary interests are what’s good for Australia, and not some slimy collectivist misanthropic malign foreign agenda.

    120

    • #
      PeterS

      I like people like them because they call a spade a spade. I just hate BS and lies. Most politicians in both major parties are full of it. It’s embarrassingly sick and ultimately nation destroying.

      110

  • #

    True facts! Climate warmunists have lies to tell, people to fleece and places to go. You can’t expect them to waste time on awkward questions or inconvenient measurements! According to Comrade Eric Blair, in the 1930s, before the internet, toughs, goons and bouncers were put in charge of beating the Truth into skeptics of all competing parties. Debate was more civilized back then.

    70

    • #
      PeterS

      We keep hearing now that the debate over climate change is over. Instead we keep hearing the question raised “What’s the cost of not acting on climate change?”. The answer is of course zero. So what’s all the fuss about? Yes I know, the fuss is all about pushing a lie and ignoring the truth often enough in the hope that the general public fall for it and comply no matter the cost. So far that tactic is working. Stupid is as stupid does.

      David Attenborough’s latest message: South-East Australia is on fired because of climate change but we still have time to do something about it. Hahahah! What does he think we need to do? Crash and burn the West perhaps?

      70

  • #
    John

    I like Craig Kelly. He has provided the most concise criticisms of abandoning coal and going to 100% renewables that I’ve heard. He points out the silly assumptions used to prove that renewables are “cheaper”. He points out that other countries are not abandoning coal, and that a fossil fuel backbone is still required and will be for some time to come.

    I think he needs to polish his image a bit. E.g. the “pommie weather girl” swipe, which unfortunately distracts from the important message he’s putting forward.

    70

    • #
      PeterS

      Yes but I heard similar remarks from Morrison before he became PM. So people do change once in a hight level of power. I’m not suggesting Craig Kelly would do the same. I hope he would not but then we won’t ever know given the LNP will hardly ever allow him to be a leader of the party. It would be nice if they did but that’s just wishful thinking.

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    • #
      Yowie

      To be honest Craig Kelly should have asked the ‘pommie weather girl (degrees in physics and meteorology)’ where in physics does CO2 start and sustain fires when the fire triangle is oxygen + fuel + heat/ignition source?

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  • #
    pat

    how to spot a CAGW phony. they call it “climate change”.
    if CAGW were not a global, political project, with the objective of replacing the fossil fuel economy with a CO2 emissions economy, the MSM would have been forced to call it CAGW long ago.
    I don’t object to being called a CAGW denier.

    all debate should be between those who believe the CAGW mob’s predictions & those who don’t – either because they haven’t seen convincing evidence, or they don’t believe a Govt/MSM-anointed, or self-apointed elite have the power of “climate” prediction decades into the future.

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    pat

    with BBC promising a year of CAGW propaganda (as if they haven’t produced decades of it already), expect more like the following, highly emotional program. the presenter ends with do you ever feel overwhelmed questioning:

    AUDIO: 26m12s: 16 Jan: BBC: The Food Chain: What’s climate change doing to cows?
    Australia’s bushfires are thought to have killed more than one billion animals, and although many of the country’s wild species have been worst affected thousands of livestock have also died, some of them buried in mass graves.
    The severe droughts that partly fuelled the flames have been affecting cattle in Australia for several years, destroying many of their grazing lands – a vital source of nutrition. There are also signs that the extreme heat in some parts of the country could even be making these animals infertile. Graihagh Jackson speaks to Gundula Rhoades, a livestock vet from New South Wales, to find out more.

    We also hear about the impact of climate change from two other farm vets. Edwin Chelule, from Nairobi, Kenya, says droughts there have been making dairy cows less productive, destroying families’ livelihoods. And Emily Gascoigne, a sheep expert from the south west of England, tells us some disease patterns have been changing.
    All three work in an industry that’s a big part of the climate change problem – livestock are responsible for almost 15 per cent of greenhouse gas emissions – so can they use their medical expertise and close relationship with farmers to bring change?
    (Picture: A farmer standing near the bones of a dead cow in a drought-affected paddock in New South Wales, Australia. Credit: Getty/BBC)
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3csyp1g

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  • #
    pat

    what a pity Marwick is back to just one hour with John Stanley, when he returns to the program next week. don’t miss Packham’s tribute to Marwick for allowing dissenting CAGW voices at the end of the interview:

    AUDIO: 17m08s: 16 Jan: 2GB Nights: Jane Marwick
    Recent rain across Australia has eased pressure on those fighting bushfires, but the difficulties are far from over, according to former CSIRO researcher and Bureau of Meteorology rural fire supervisor David Packham.
    https://www.2gb.com/podcast/david-packham-fires-have-settled-but-the-heat-is-still-on/

    40

  • #
    pat

    23m32s: caller re fuel loads experienced on holiday, followed by interview with Martin Tebbitt in Bilpin (includes excerpt from Chris Smith’s program on Sky last nite);
    35:52 Marwick on Vic Jurskis info/photos she received yesterday;

    can’t locate the best caller – who came on when Marwick said there were just seconds before a break.
    he said his message was simple. forget a Royal Commission. what we need is a class action lawsuit against the Councils, National Parks & State Govts who are responsible for the intensity of the bushfires. if anyone listens and does find the quote, please post the time, so I can set aside any concern that it was edited from the audio!

    2h49s: 16 Jan: 2GB: Nights with Jane Marwick
    https://www.2gb.com/podcast/nights-with-jane-marwick-thursday-16th-january/

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    • #
      pat

      Marwick’s Chris Smith excerpt features David Porter, Bega.
      didn’t get his name last nite, but now did a search and can find nothing on Sky or via google search, or on Chris Smith’s twitter page about the interview. haven’t located any video either.

      however, on his Facebook page (which I accessed from a Bing search), there is this (url too long to post, but not needed):

      Facebook: David Porter – 23h ago
      I will be interviewed by Chris Smith on Sky Channel tonight after 7pm about one of my favorite topics:
      The effect of e-zones implemented by Council on the bushfire crisis. Stay tuned!

      whilst the short excerpt on Marwick’s show is evidence it happened, and I didn’t imagine it – and an important one at that – it would be great if someone could find the full interview. it should be posted.

      I have found various parts of the program available online, but NOT this Porter interview.

      50

      • #
        pat

        Sky can’t put up important stuff like the Porter interview – and nor do they ever pick up revealing evidence re fuel loads as part of their regular reporting (same with revelations re BoM or faulty CAGW “science”)…

        but I just switched to the channel for the first time today, and it’s a lengthy rehash of Karen Andrews, with Albanese (Shorten by his side) going on and on and on about how the climate debate is over.

        Sky is unwatchable, with a few program exceptions.

        50

        • #
          Dennis

          The Sky conservative good guys are back soon, Chris Smith is about the only one carrying the flag for us.

          40

  • #
    Zane

    Joseph Goebbels ” A lie told a thousand times becomes the truth ” – the patron saint of the green totalitarians who believe they know what is best for western civilization… While the Arabs, Chinese, and Russians are ready to take over our factories and energy companies.

    52

    • #
      PeterS

      The difference though is they rigged the elections and forced many to vote their way for fear of their lives. In our democracy there is no such pressure, at least not yet. So we elect the politicians we deserve. We have the choice to protest at the ballot box by voting for an alternative party to hold the balance and force whoever wants to form government to stop following the CAGW scam. I doubt there are enough voters willing to do that. So plan B is for things to go pear shaped for people wake up.

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    • #
      hatband

      Joseph Goebbels ” A lie told a thousand times becomes the truth ”

      Goebbels was commenting on the infamous Propaganda technique of

      Karl Radek, Soviet Commissar for Propaganda, rather than giving a tutorial on lying.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Radek

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  • #
    Tides of Mudgee

    Perhaps the ABC should watch this. It’s Prof. Ian Clark at a Canadian senate hearing on climate hoax

    http://grainoftruth.ca/earth-sciences-prof-ian-clark-testified-at-the-canadian-senate-hearing-on-climate-hoax-global-warming/

    20

  • #

    LATE ADDITION: Karen Andrews should know better, being a former Mechanical Engineering from QUT. (These Queensland universities have a lot to answer for.)

    What the Science Minister said (blah blah, strawman, blah.)

    Australia is wasting time debating the merits of climate change and should instead focus its attention on responding to the impacts it is having on the country, a senior Liberal minister has warned.

    Science Minister Karen Andrews said it was time to move on from ideological battles, which she said had robbed the nation of the time and energy needed to respond to climate change.

    “Every second that we spend talking about whether or not the climate is changing is a second that we are not spending on looking at adaptation [and] mitigation strategies,” she said.

    “It really is time for everyone to move on and look at what we’re going to do.”

    Ms Andrews, a former engineer, said the science on climate change was settled.

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    • #
      Deplorable Lord Kek

      A science minister that fails science:

      “Our aim as scientists is objective truth; more truth, more interesting truth, more intelligible truth. We cannot reasonably aim at certainty. Once we realize that human knowledge is fallible, we realize also that we can never be completely certain that we have not made a mistake.”
      -Karl R. Popper

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    • #
      frednk

      The trouble with engineering is you do have to pass physics, so there is a chance you understand he basic science. Further your introduced to the scientific method. Not likely to run with all scientists are stupid and corrupt meme.

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      • #

        Meet my skeptical husband: David Evans, Engineer — PhD, M.S. (E.E.), M.S. (Stats) [Stanford Uni], B.Eng, M.A., B.Sc., University Medal, [Syd Uni]

        There goes that theory eh?

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      • #

        It’s just that the climate beat-up, before one even gets to orbits and the like, requires one to overlook most geology, stratigraphy, speleology, oceanography, glaciology, archaeology and history. Not saying all those things are perfect, but it’s a lot to overlook.

        But do wake us when Ostia and Ephesus can be used as seaports again. Feels odd landing Airbuses where Romans moored grain fleets. Some old silt holding back irresistible sea level rise? Please, at least wait till the water is close up to Thermopylae again. Till then it’s a dry argument.

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        Graeme Bird

        The trouble with engineering is you do have to pass physics, so there is a chance you understand he basic science. Further your introduced to the scientific method. Not likely to run with all scientists are stupid and corrupt meme.

        You posing, bluffing id[snip]. This is a huge crisis we are dealing with for the entirety of the species. I speak here of the rebellion against the scientific method, the hatred of evidence and the felt need for evidence, and the watering down of the sort of cultural values that made the positive revolution in science possible.

        Now I know I know that the murder of tens of millions of Christians, and Confucian influenced people, under communism should tear at my heart more, and make me grieve more. I’m not going to beat myself up about it. But what is making me blue-in-the-face these days is what has been done to science. And it didn’t just start with this particular Turbo-Charged Piltdown-Man on steroids.

        The frauds who brought us this nonsense didn’t show up to their scam GREEN. This rebellion against science goes back a very long way.

        []ED

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        Reed Coray

        Yeah, like CO2 is a “heat-trapping gas” when physics teaches us that “heat can’t be trapped.” I don’t know about you, but logic tells me that the two phrases “heat can’t be trapped” and “CO2 is a heat-trapping gas” can’t both the true. I vote in favor of physics; apparently you vote in favor of salesmanship.

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        AndyG55

        “The trouble with engineering is you do have to pass physics”

        Seems you only got through physics by rote learning, with zero comprehension….

        and have since lost all minor understanding you might once have had.

        Your comments show that you have very little comprehension of real science.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        Lets see if you have enough physics to comprehend this statement and its implication..

        It has been proven from data that the atmosphere is in stable thermal equilibrium.

        That throws any “trapped energy” conjecture into the waste disposal, never to be seen again.

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        Deplorable Lord Kek

        The trouble with engineering is you do have to pass physics, so there is a chance you understand he basic science. Further your introduced to the scientific method. Not likely to run with all scientists are stupid and corrupt meme.

        translation: ‘b..but the science is settled, it’s just simple physics!’

        in reality:

        “In a new paper, Kennedy and Hodzic, 2019 summarize the lack of real-world, observational support for the claim CO2 molecules elicit planetary heating in the process of explicating their postion that water vapor is the gas that dominates the Earth’s greenhouse effect.

        They point out that the “critical assumption” that CO2 molecules reduce outgoing longwave radiation (OLR) to warm the Earth’s surface “lacks empirical confirmation.””

        http://pen.ius.edu.ba/index.php/pen/article/view/437/350

        https://notrickszone.com/2020/01/06/scientists-the-co2-greenhouse-warming-effect-rides-on-mere-assumption-and-lacks-empirical-verification/

        whoops!

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    • #
      el gordo

      In my book adaptation is good and mitigation pointless, but they won’t listen.

      ‘Tony Burke, a former sustainability and environment minister, says the Morrison government’s climate policies continue to be watered down by a handful of MPs who don’t believe in climate change.

      “Their arguments are not that different to the anti-vaxxers, in terms of saying: ‘I don’t care what the science says, I have this particular view and I’m just going to say we shouldn’t adopt a policy’,” Mr Burke told Sky News on Thursday.

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      • #
        hatband

        “Their arguments are not that different to the anti-vaxxers,… ” Mr Burke told Sky News…

        looks like we dodged a bullet last May 18, then.

        No matter how woeful Scotty is, at least he’s not proposing vaccinating everything that

        breathes in the name of Science.

        Yet.

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        • #
          Graeme Bird

          at least he’s not proposing vaccinating everything that breathes in the name of Science.

          Yeah I get it. Look at that old man over there. You came by, changed the rules on him seven times, kicked him in the balls, and now he’s angry. But god he’s angry. He needs blood pressure pills and vaccinations. What a money-spinner.

          But wait wait there is more. See the newly born little baby girl. See how her eyes are not properly open. Seen how she is struggling. See how her mother is getting upset as she is struggling to breast-feed. My goodness she needs six vaccinations. Right now and it cannot wait.

          I think the problem is when there is a secret declaration of war on us and we cannot fully believe that we are subject to it.

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      • #
        WXcycles

        Yes, the Upper House of Parliament and Cabinet should be more like the Chinese CCCP’s chambers, where consensus rules and debate or dissent will get you a firing-squad.

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    • #

      Translation from Turnbullian: We will degrade the power system further; waste and limit water at the same time; buy more stuff made in China using Australian coal while we still have a few bob; subsidise, fund and build more white elephants; import more diesel and hardware to paper over the failings of renewables; engage in green plunder with a wider view to imposing the commie/Fabian agenda of the international fake tan brigade. And then we’ll sacrifice some baby goats and roast them over a burning cathedral.

      I only made up the last bit.

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Hi Jo,

      I think that we would find a significant difference in course content between her Mechanical Engineering degree and the more relevant Chemical Engineering and Metallurgy degrees.

      Because of its focus on CO2 the metallurgy course is probably the best “climate science” course available with possibly Chem Eng next.

      If you look at the couse content of the original US study of that American fellow at UNSW it is woefully absent of the basics like physics, chemistry, process analysis, orbital mechanics and modelling, all of which are essential to the understanding of the climate change thing.

      Of course, in the modern world, having a lot of “front” goes a long way too.

      The poor, long suffering Australian taxpayers keep him in the style to which climate scientists seem entitled.

      Actual benefit to Australia: NIL!

      But he makes a good figurehead along with Audrey and the others.

      KK

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    • #
      Bill In Oz

      So now it’s ‘settled’ what this Andrews woman said !
      What in the name of heaven is she doing doing being a minister.
      She does not know what SCIENCE is.
      In fact I suspect that real science would spook her.
      Why ? Because there is so much uncertainty !
      And scientists keep finding out stuff that contradicts
      What other scientists have found.
      There is no bloody scientific Bible with it’s ‘certitudes’

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    frednk

    Don’t worry. You might be losing the Liberals as the future unfolds and it is discovered the scientists did know what they were talking about, and they where not corrupt, but you will have in your corner, hardline lefty, meteorologist, Masters in Astrophysics Piers (brother of Jeremy) Corbyn.

    Funny how politics is circular and the hard left and right meet.

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/01/hardline-lefty-meteorologist-masters-in-astrophysics-piers-brother-of-jeremy-corbyn-explains-climate.html

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    • #
      Graeme Bird

      You might be losing the Liberals as the future unfolds and it is discovered the scientists did know what they were talking about, and they where not corrupt,

      You have to face it you are a complete loony-toon. There wouldn’t be a problem if they weren’t useless and corrupt.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “it is discovered the scientists did know what they were talking about”

      Except “climate” scientists don’t know what they are talking about.

      And you seem to be especially clueless. !

      You have been CONNED, and have fallen for it hook, line and sinker, because you have never been able to think for yourself.

      The FACT that you are incapable of finding any empirical of the very basis of the whole nonsense, ie warming by atmospheric CO2, should give you a strong WAKE-UP call…

      but it won’t.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        oops.missed a word.. should read…

        he FACT that you are incapable of finding any empirical evidence of the very basis of the whole nonsense

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  • #
    robert rosicka

    Just announced that Germany to be out of coal and nuke generation by 2035 !

    40

    • #
      Graeme Bird

      Two big wars and two starvation blockades. And now this. We are really determined to finish these Germans off it seems.

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      • #
        • #
          Graeme Bird

          Well someone declared war on them. I’m not sure who. Actually it was the British elite that decided to hurt them. The decision seems to have been made around 1885. The Germans were outstripping the British on all levels. The parasitical elite had the choice of 1. reforming their banking and tax to outcompete the Germans or 2. being dominated by the Germans, or 3. To destroy the Germans, by organising alliances against them, then luring the Germans to into war. So the British elite, or the Deep State, or whoever started, with great discipline, putting these anti-German alliances together.

          The Kaiser who was very fond of the English, responded with a naval buildup competition. The purpose of trying to outdo the British in their navy, was simply to convince the British to be rational, and to become the allies of the Germans. Before the age of banking it was easy to have allies and friends. If you were strong everyone wanted to be your friend. If you were weak then people hated you and your friends went into hiding.

          There was no enmity there. These two were fairly closely related by blood. Or thought they were. They were each-others greatest trading partners. One was the best at sea and the other was best on land. They had to be friends. They were natural allies. No sane consideration could make them enemies. There was nothing but the evil of the elite to push them apart. But the elite had decided to destroy them. So in the end the Kaiser gave up this naval competition mystified. And all of Europe gathered in for the kill.

          Once they ‘put the finger’ on you it never ends. So this renewables jive amounts to the mopping up operation. And with a sheila that at least looks like she may be the little girl of Adolph.

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    Choroin

    So here is the problem with democracy in the current year: All politicians structure their rhetoric purely for purposes of perceived reputation for re-election, not by what’s in the best interest of public policy or truthful governance.

    ABC has more power in such a system than half of the voting public.

    LNP has raised the white flag on this leftist racketeering.

    We truly have no party to vote for anymore which holds their intellectual integrity above an easier ride at the ballot box.

    The Overton window on energy policy has been successfully shifted so far left that I don’t think our economy will be able to recover to a scenario which is sustainable for industry.

    Death by ‘democracy’; when you’re forced to vote on election day – or be fined – for one of three options, one of which is powerless to repair the wrongs of rabid leftism, and two which actively aim to destroy the economy and border security in order to obliterate what remains of a market economy so they can say “see, capitalism has failed, come to an end, now it’s time to centrally manage every facet of your life”.

    God help us from the ABC.

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    DonS

    Hi Jo

    It’s not just on climate “science” that the ABC is biased. If you saw their news at noon show today they gave a pretty good example of how they present science in a neo-communist style that fits their viewpoint.

    First up was a researcher who has found a way to genetically modify mosquitoes to stop them spreading Dengue fever. Potentially could save millions of human lives across the tropics. Que our ABC news reader who attempted to smear this guys findings by quoting from another research paper that suggested genetically modified organisms would hybridise and run amok in the precious enviiironment. Fortunately the guy was across his field and pointed out, in a more polite way than I would have, that the paper she was referring to was “controversial” in that the conclusions reached did not reflect the data presented i.e. [snip. can't say that for legal reasons. -Jo].

    Next up was a guy presenting nothing more than an hypothesis that Cr+3 in the soil can convert to dangerous Cr+6 under conditions experienced during a bushfire that can see soil temps go as high as 800C. The guy said that he had taken samples after various recent bushfires but had not developed a method to test the samples. Having worked in environmental chemistry labs for a long time I can tell you that they routinely test for Cr+6 in soil and water samples which presents 2 possibilities. One the bloke is unaware of this or two the concentrations of Cr+6 in the samples are so low that a new test method needs to be found to give repeatable results. This suggest to me that while it is an interesting research topic, it is not something people should be worried about. Our ABC news reader however thought that she should refer to a Hollywood movie about a case of industrial waste dumping involving Cr+6 as some sort of warning of danger, Scary right?

    So there you have it. Research that could save millions of human lives needs to be attacked using junk science while on the other hand millions of people traumatised by bushfires need to be scared into worrying about their drinking water supplies based on unproven hypothesis. Thanks ABC, time you were shutdown.

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  • #
    tonyb

    Jo

    I doubt you will see this buried at the back of the thread but I will post it here and try to repost it in a newer thread
    A few days ago we discussed the amount of debris lying around in the forest that could catch fire

    I came across this specifically about eucalyptus in California but with references to Australia

    https://baynature.org/article/burning-question-east-bay-hills-eucalyptus-flammable-compared/

    it seems that some 8 to ten tons of Debris occurs in each acre and dry leaves per pound has a btu equivalent of 10000 which is only marginally less than coal. It also confirms the extreme inflammability ofthe trees.

    In another report it indicted koalas for stripping eucalyptus trees sending debris to the ground and causing the trees to grow again strongly. This seems to have happened on kangaroo island where the remota variety and koalas seem to have taken over the landscapes with very sad results
    Tonyb

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    pat

    more evidence how all MSM is CAGW-invested/infested. DM used to have comments; perhaps still does for some articles. not for this one. readers usually loathe CAGW cr*p in the paper. first, the writer – seems impressed by our tans!

    Twitter: Alisha Rouse, Did Arts & Entertainment for the Daily Mail in London. Now 12,000 miles away at Daily Mail Australia
    (PINNED AT TOP)
    TWEET: Big personal news: I’m moving to Australia! After 5+ fab years with @DailyMailUK I’m very excited to join the lovely, and I assume far ***more tanned, lot @DailyMailAU in a few weeks.
    31 Oct 2019

    TWEET: 14 Jan:
    McDonald’s not having a veggie burger in Australia had – at one low point – genuinely made me reconsider my life plans…
    LINK DM: McDonald’s launches a new VEGGIE burger in Australian stores after a push for more vegetarian-friendly products
    https://twitter.com/AlishaRouse

    16 Jan: Daily Mail: ‘I felt like a criminal’: Australia’s Greta Thunberg slams police who ‘humiliated her’ at a climate change rally as she arrives at court to support Greens MP charged with disobeying police
    •Izzy Raj-Seppings accused police of ‘humiliating her’ outside Kirribilli House
    •She was threatened with arrest outside Scott Morrison’s residence in December
    •NSW Greens MP David Shoebridge was arrested along with 10 other protesters
    •A proud activist, Izzy is a member of the Extinction Rebellion group in Sydney
    By Alisha Rouse
    The young protester, 13, became a global sensation after she was pictured being threatened with arrest outside the prime minister’s Kirribilli residence…
    Already a seasoned protester, she is a member of Extinction Rebellion Sydney…

    The (Shoebridge) matter was adjourned until January 31 at the Downing Centre Local Court…

    Mr Morrison later cut short his family trip to Hawaii, and apologised for ‘any offence’ it caused.
    ‘I deeply regret any offence caused to any of the many Australians affected by the terrible bushfires by my taking leave with family at this time,’ Mr Morrison said on ***Friday…
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7892913/I-felt-like-criminal-Australias-Greta-Thunburg-slams-police-humiliating-protest.html

    ***Friday in the article would refer to 10th January, but PM said the above on 20 Dec 2019. so what justifies half the above article being about Morrison, incl multiple pics from Hawaii?

    a story like the PM’s holiday (forget the Vic and Qld premier being on holiday too, while they were actually in charge of bushfire response) never goes away. I still hear it mentioned almost every time I drop by Sky Australia for more than a minute.

    am watching cricket – our commentator – didn’t catch who – brings up the worldwide sympathy for our bushfires, the billion animals killed, etc. Indian commentator expresses deep sympathy.
    no celebrities, sporting events, etc for the snow deaths in India, Afghanistan and, in particular, Pakistan, though.

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    • #
      pat

      our commentator is Michael Slater, who is now going further, the beach rescue, etc etc…until he gets a global warming response from the Indian commentator. time for the mute button?

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      • #
        pat

        16 Jan: NewKerala: IANS: Pakistan extreme cold weather toll reached 109
        The death toll due to the extreme cold weather conditions in Pakistan has increased to 109 on Thursday, after 15 people, including five soldiers, were killed by avalanches in Gilgit-Baltistan and Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK), authorities said…

        PoK authorities have said that the toll could increase as some areas in the Neelum Valley were still inaccessible due to heavy snowfall, while weather officials forecast another spell of snowfall beginning on Friday.

        The Gilgit-Rawalpindi section of the Karakorum Highway has been fully restored, while the Frontier Works Organization (FWO) cleared road at four points by removing debris in Patton, Matta Banda of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Tatta Pani in Diamer.
        Meanwhile, Prime Minister Imran Khan visited Muzaffarabad on Wednesday, where he received a briefing from the PoK Chief Secretary regarding the damages incurred due to the heavy snowfall, avalanches, landslides and other rain-related incidents in the region as well as the relief efforts undertaken.
        He also visited the injured people in hospitals…
        https://www.newkerala.com/news/2020/7799.htm

        plus there are those killed in Afghanistan and northern India.

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  • #
    pat

    paid for by the public through the BBC Licence fee.
    if the following out-and-out propaganda did not sit well with the Deep State, including Govt, it would not be allowed:

    16 Jan: BBC: Our Planet Matters: What’s the BBC plan all about?
    The BBC has announced plans for a year-long series of special programming and coverage on climate change.
    A raft of news services and shows are planned as part of the Our Planet Matters project.
    These include a new monthly Climate Check video feature from BBC Weather, and coverage of debates and events around the globe.
    Digital, TV and radio outlets will all take part.

    Sir David Attenborough also plans a new hour-long documentary for the Our Planet Matters programmes. Extinction: The Facts will examine the fragile state of the natural world.
    Online, the BBC will produce new explainers, interactive tools and guides to help sort through the jargon and analyse what’s happening in the UK and across our changing planet. You can check back on everything that has been published so far here (LINK).

    BBC.com will launch Future Planet, looking at how people around the world are confronting the problems created by climate change.

    In a new series for BBC Two, Ade Adepitan travels to countries on the frontline of climate change to find out what humanity is doing to face up to possibly the greatest challenge in our history in a three part series, Ade on the Frontline of Climate Change.
    Radio 4′s PM programme will air The Environment in 10 Objects. Each episode will look at the environmental impact of one household item, and how we can respond to the climate crisis at home.
    A new weekly podcast on the World Service will examine climate change from scientific, business and policy perspectives with the help of journalists from around the world.

    BBC Weather meanwhile plans to bring in a monthly Climate Check service, to help audiences see trends behind the daily weather.
    Adam Bullimore, head of BBC Weather, says it will be a chance to “share something more with audiences than just the typical weather forecast”, and will focus on the impact of data like CO2 emissions and Arctic sea ice measurements on our planet…

    The BBC will also cover the build up to the COP 26 climate summit in Glasgow this November. On Friday, BBC Breakfast and the News Channel will be live from Glasgow’s Science Centre talking about plans to make Scotland’s biggest city carbon neutral by 2030, and how this will affect its people.
    In the summer, the BBC will host a climate debate. Experts and people from around the UK will be brought together at the audience event.

    What about abroad?
    Our worldwide network of BBC correspondents will report on the effects of climate change on the environment and communities from all corners of the globe.
    That even includes Antarctica. Chief environment correspondent Justin Rowlatt will be reporting from the remote Thwaites Glacier, where researchers are trying to find out the stability of the colossal ice mass.
    All through 2020 the BBC will report on which countries, people and technologies are leading the way in tackling climate change.

    Scientific work will also be a key focus. There will be coverage of how researchers are trying to understand the pace of climate change and its effects on the natural world…

    How is the BBC doing on its own climate targets?
    According to the BBC press office, the corporation reduced its carbon footprint by 78% last year by purchasing renewable electricity to match that used at major sites and is on track to remove all single-use plastics from BBC sites by the end of 2020.
    The corporation now aims to go carbon neutral and has launched a project to identify what action is needed and how quickly it can be achieved…

    “We’re committed to responsible travel policies including only travelling when necessary, using technology such as videoconferencing, improving the fuel efficiency of our vehicle fleet and introducing electric vehicles,” a statement reads. “Currently one of our contractors offsets CO2 emissions on our flights with them and we are exploring whether there’s scope to do more.”
    BBC Director of News, Fran Unsworth, said: “We are very aware of our own impact on the environment and our responsible travel policy means we only fly when necessary.”

    You can read the BBC’s Greener Broadcasting strategy here LINK…

    What questions do you have about changes in our climate and about the Our Planet Matters series?
    In some cases your question will be published, displaying your name, age and location as you provide it, unless you state otherwise. Your contact details will never be published. Please ensure you have read our terms & conditions and privacy policy.
    Use this form to ask your question…FORM
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51104776

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      pat

      the only MSM story sillier than the Beeb’s CAGW plan:

      VIDEO: 16 Jan: Fox News: CNN’s Brian Stelter lampooned on social media over documentary announcement
      by Brian Flood
      CNN’s critics had fun with the network’s in-house media reporter Brian Stelter on Wednesday when he promoted an upcoming documentary about “disinformation and the cost of fake news” on the heels of the liberal network settling a multimillion-dollar defamation lawsuit filed by Covington Catholic High School student Nick Sandmann amid various other controversies…
      LINK: CNN SETTLEMENT WITH COVINGTON STUDENT NICK SANDMANN A WIN FOR THE ‘LITTLE GUY,’ EXPERT SAYS

      Media Research Center vice president Dan Gainor told Fox News that “it’s hard to tell if this is a documentary or an autobiography.”
      “One of the most amazing things about the news media is they can’t even envision how people will look at what they are doing in a critical way,” Gainor said.
      In addition to the recent settlement with Sandmann, Stelter’s tweet came as CNN was trending on social media because of backlash to CNN political correspondent Abby Phillip’s performance during the network’s Democratic debate in Iowa on Tuesday night…
      NewsBusters managing editor Curtis Houck told Fox News that it’s “incredibly ironic” the documentary was announced at the same time that “CNN is grappling” with a debate that was even panned by the far-left MSNBC…

      “Add in Stelter’s recent complaint that calling D.C. journalists ‘swamp creatures’ is ‘hateful speech’ and you have quite the week for HBO to announce his latest ride atop his high horse,” Houck said, referring to a recent segment when the CNN media reporter condemned White House Deputy Press Secretary Hogan Gidley for criticizing reporters.

      Stelter’s announcement was immediately hit with criticism and mockery.
      The announcement also came one day after attorney Michael Avenatti, who was a CNN guest hundreds of times at the height of his fame, was arrested over allegations that the high-profile lawyer scammed a client out of $840,000. Stelter once famously declared that he was taking Avenatti “seriously” as a 2020 Democratic presidential contender – so many critics responded to the documentary news with footage of the 2018 interview…
      https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-brian-stelter-hbo-documentary

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      Graeme No.3

      pat:

      did “the corporation reduced its carbon footprint by 78% last year by purchasing renewable electricity” by using the lower price “carbon certificates” from Lithuania? Or elsewhere in eastern Europe?

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    Deano

    I have just noticed on Macquarie Radio (now owned by Nine) a claim frequently being made by presenters is that “Almost all the skeptics have now admitted the science is overwhelming and have accepted man-made warming as a fact”. 30 years ago, such a claim would probably have convinced many skeptics they were almost alone – we had no other source of mass communication to work with. The world has moved on but the traditional media still think their stale old tricks work. Unfortunately, they still seem to work on politicians!

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      PeterS

      It’s also appears to be working on the public in general. Only time will show how far the mind rot is setting in when we have another election that has climate change as one of the main issues.

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      Deano — that’s a very important observation. If people can take the trouble to find out who said it (ie record the actual time and station) we can respond to them.

      There are many skeptics out there who don’t even go looking on the internet for information because the constant drumbeat of this lie fools them into thinking that there are not hundreds of thousands of well informed skeptics protesting at this junk abuse of science.

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    Athelstan.

    A tad like Canada and the Canadian Broadcasting corporation where nobody watches it, only dopes watch ABC…oh and the greengoblins, it’s an echo chamber for themselves only, Australia has tuned out.

    Thus using calumniation and going after individuals in some sort of bid to bring back viewers, ABC dips into the ar7e end, again.

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      Deano

      Just learned a new word – ‘calumniation’ thanks to Athelstan. It means “To knowingly make false statements about”. I can’t wait to try on the science boffins at work and see if they know what it means.

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    Gerry, England

    I think you will find that climate change played no part in the UK election with the biggest political event the country has seen since WW2 still in play and the second of the main parties being a bunch of communist nutters looking to create a new Venezuela in our land.

    Anyone who knows Boris Johnson knows he is a proven serial liar – you can make a lot of statement about him in the UK press and nothing will happen to you – so whatever he said about climate could just be another lie. It might that he just wants to keep getting his leg over his greenie girlfriend. An actual action he has taken is to save an important regional airline flybe from going bankrupt due to the global warming tax bill it has got.

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    Kalm Keith

    Up around #14 there are comments from a recent returnee.

    The level of personal abuse present in most of the comments spread over several weeks is not pretty and is a new thing for the blog after an extended period of blog clogging by others.

    Enjoy.

    KK

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      Kalm Keith

      [Snip about snipped]

      [Email me Keith. Personal ad homs waste my time, and I have little tolerance. -- Jo]

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      • #

        [email protected] etc. Abuse and ad hom arguments are deleted. Give it a go.

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          Bill In Oz

          A level of humorous commentary is OK
          But straight out abuse and ad Hominems
          of whatever side
          I think are offensive to our intelligence
          And better blocked by the mods.

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            hatband

            What about Gaslighting?

            Do you think the Mods ought to block that?

            Or do you find it humourous?

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              Bill In Oz

              What exactly is gaslighting ?

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                Gaslighting is simply the repetition of some completely false fact over and over. The whole western world is being Gaslighted by alarmist scientists.

                If people persistently do it here, that’s a pattern we should block, but before anyone reports it, so as to not waste my time, please list the comments and make sure it is a fact that’s being repeatedly abused.

                A lot of people call things “facts” that are pet theories, or irrelevant factoids depending on subclauses. It’s only gaslighting if it is unambiguous, sinister, and definitive.

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                hatband

                Named for the 1946 Film Gaslight, set in 1890s London, where creepy
                husband Charles Boyer connives with evil young Housemaid Angela Lansbury to lead wealthy bur naive Newlywed Ingrid Bergman to doubt her sanity and do a Sylvia Plath.

                Since you are Bill in Oz, perhaps you’ve noticed the ABC and others in control of the megaphone Gaslighting Australian Men as violent, stupid bigots over the last 60 years or so.

                On Blogs, repeated replies such as ”That’s a weird comment”and question marks [???] left as replies to comments indicate [to me]that that person is acting as some kind of gatekeeper, and is not legit.

                Now, I don’t care if it’s moderated or not, but that’s not the issue.
                The issue is that when they’re called out on their Gaslighting, they want to play the Wilfully Obtuse Card, then segue into Concern Trolling and
                Playing the Victim.

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    In Australia, anybody can claim the title of Engineer.

    However as I understand it, notably in Queensland, one must be licenced to proffer “Engineering Advice” and one doesn’t get such a licence unless qualified and one doesn’t get to keep the licence without maintaining liability insurance to the extent of the consequences of advice being offered.

    So a key question to Karen Andrews is if she would offer those statements as Engineering Advice. If she did, anybody could ask for the OQE upon which she’s basing that advice. IPCC reports and CSIRO reports aren’t OQE – Senator Roberts (an experienced Engineer) has pointed that out by reading the Disclaimer to CSIRO staff during a Senate inquiry and asking them to explain … If she has no evidence, then one can justifiably enquire how she can make such assertions.

    Perchance that niggly OQE requirement is why she’s a former Engineer.

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    Look at the bright side. They have now taken to leaving out the “or we’ll crush your knees with sledgehammers and wedges then burn you at the stake,” as at Loudon in France. Like Germany´s Positive Christianity of the 1940s, congregants of Ecological National Socialism are becoming less extreme. Britain how has a Project Servator listing the icons of these various anarchist, communist and socialist religions for easy identification and counter terrorism policing.
    The use of lying and propaganda to stampede politicians into strangling access to energy literally increases the death rate (lowers population life expectancy) and is the same thing as any other act of deliberate terrorism. The only discernible difference is they generate terror to create the health hazard instead of the other way around. With voting ordered at gunpoint and transformed into a Minotaur’s maze, Australia has more obstacles to overcome. But a favorable wind might burn out some nests of looter politicians as a side effect–one has the right to hope, right?

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    Graeme Bird

    Billion Dollar Bully. Joanne may have been channelling the great band Alice Cooper. AC started off as the bands name. But later Vincent Furnier took the name to himself.

    Billion Dollar Bully reminds me of Billion Dollar Baby. This is a real horror story this song. It reminds us that there is almost nothing more spooky than misdirected or inappropriate affection. The whole way through the drummer is using a technique where the two sticks drop at almost the same time but from radically different heights. Once I was taught this technique and knew its name. It escapes me now. But it goes uninterrupted through the entirety of the song.

    Billion Dollar Baby is a kind of minor masterpiece in this horror genre. The older ladies unfulfilled maternal extinct leads to harm delivered to the innocent baby, as well even to the (presumed) lady causing the damage. Vincent even puts a Victorian era patina too it with a bit of a cockney accent. Really this is very good work.

    Completely horrifying and tragic and yet it may be a very good metaphor to what the global warming racket is doing. Real affections, understandable affections, human affections … These are being misdirected. And its creating a slow-motion horror-story. Just like being forced to watch movies about the Titanic a thousand times over. We already know that this isn’t going to end well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2kBG5dcVtU

    No good can come out of misdirecting the affections of our leftists. Turns a good leftist bad. A sensible lestist crazy. Turns the whole environment kind of creepy.

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    Graeme Bird

    What I am saying is that we need not fall victim to conservative torpor or leftist stupidity. We should not be merely patting ourselves on the back that we are more Athenian than our opponents. So what if we are 20% less tribal and three times more reasonable than the dumb left. So what? The dumb left is responding to the real human concerns. We already know that we have only 10% of their strategic sense and ring-craft, because they beat us up and beat us senseless every time. So lets stop being so proud of ourselves. If I am not being too bold.

    Now above, in the prior post, I’m talking about misdirected affection as being creepy. And I’m thinking about the third to last draft of Donovan and Alice performing this very creepy song. But what does it take to make a cat-lady? She has real human affections and they are being misdirected and so that there are cats everywhere? Well thats not right is it? Maybe her family excluded her from contact with her nieces and nephews. Maybe she didn’t have a family and so she was set aside from contact with younger children, by overly severe barriers from becoming a teachers assistant or otherwise being excluded from expressing her womanly nature.

    And so it goes with the dumb left. With their misdirected affections. We need to be more sensitive to the needs of homo-sapiens more generally. Has government sponsored fractional reserve ponzi usury really produced the best city and town layout for the homo-sapian? Since state supported ponzi-usury is an imposition on the free market its very unlikely that the outcome will be conducive to our more human nature.

    And though we may be libertarians, or in my case recovering libertarians, do we not see some human feeling in an old familiar song like the one I link below?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94bdMSCdw20

    You see I think the concerns of the great artist, and the concerns of the crazy leftists are real concerns. So I think we have to get far ahead of these anti-Athenians, and chart a future that is conducive and loveable to the human species.

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