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Which expert put a thermometer on a hot tin roof for 40 years?

Is This the Wackiest Weather Station in Australia?

Guest post by Ken Stewart

South Australia puts thermometers beside incinerators. Victoria puts them behind prison walls. Tasmania has one beside piles of human excrement. New South Wales has them beside freeways. But Queensland goes one better — it has one on a roof.  And not just any roof, but on the shiny steel roof of a sugar loader, high above the ocean, and at the end of a jetty 5.6 kilometres out to sea. It’s in the Coral Sea, at Lucinda Point in Far North Queensland.

This station cannot possibly record meaningfully representative temperatures. But these temperatures are duly reported on the Bureau’s websites, and on TV and radio. Not only that, but temperatures at Lucinda are used to adjust temperatures at Cairns. Thus, they contribute to the official climate record of Australia, and also to global climate analyses by the likes of the Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS) and the Hadley Climate Research Unit (HadCruT).

Putting a weather station on a roof is a direct breach of the Bureau of Meteorology’s own guidelines, which state:

3.6.7  “Shelters shall not be installed on the tops of roofs, or near the exhausts or heat exchangers of such equipment as air conditioners, refrigerators and the like.”

Here’s a Google satellite image of the Lucinda Point jetty and sugar loading wharf.  The Stevenson screen containing the automatic electronic thermometer is in the red oval.

Lucinda Jetty and thermometer

This image shows the length of the jetty.

Lucinda Bureau of Meteorology

Being on the roof of the sugar loader, 5.6km offshore, the weather station has not had an update to the site plan since 2002 (not surprisingly).

Lucinda map siting.

I have been looking at the siting of Australian weather stations for many weeks now, at my blog kenskingdom.wordpress.com.  Some are worse than others, but now and then I see one which makes me scratch my head and wonder — how can the Bureau get away with this?  This is such a one.

Details of Lucinda:

 

 

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Rating: 9.3/10 (98 votes cast)
Which expert put a thermometer on a hot tin roof for 40 years?, 9.3 out of 10 based on 98 ratings

281 comments to Which expert put a thermometer on a hot tin roof for 40 years?

  • #
    Adaminaby Angler

    This codswallop is a bloody DISGRACE to the very notion of climate and weather. I love those topics dearly (I’m an obsessive weather enthusiast), so to see them get buggered in such a manner makes my blood boil.

    By the way, I strongly advocate for the schooling system to force mandatory climatological lessons upon students; we need more commoners aware of the climate and weather, and how it operates etc.

    360

    • #
      ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

      By the way, I strongly advocate for the schooling system to force mandatory climatological lessons upon students..

      Might sound like a good idea, but that’s how the Left do it. Although our cause might be noble, the forcing of anything upon another living soul I consider abominable lest they have already forced harm upon an innocent individual, but that’s what we have imprisonment for. I prefer sticking with facts until the whole thing unravels. THEN, using those facts, imprisonment should be provided for those that have willed and caused enormous harm to our children and society. The monsters we’re dealing with:

      I’m currently doing a course of some description, where the atmosphere is pretty relaxed so we can freeley communicate among each other. One of the blokes is very interested in untangling the climate scam and obviously gets as much help from myself as he desires.

      However, there’s a greentard in the group. He’s generally okay to get along with but doesn’t care to cross-check any information, openly declares everything on the interweb as fake, then tries to push erroneous stuff about corporations, oil companies and the like, all the while garnering this information from his previously declared fake interweb. Nice eh..? He also uses the “shotgun” approach in his accusations. Not letting anyone else get a word in until he’s either walked away or changed the subject, and always changes the subject when questioned on it. It’s like an angry girlfriend that just wants to argue. There’s no getting through the spray of turds.

      Today, he showed his true colours by declaring our very own Joanne Nova a blatant liar, without offering a shred of evidence to support such a claim. Although I was rather surprised and miffed, I calmly asked if he knew her at all, where he got this information, did he ever attempt to verify or factually bunk anything Jo has said or written at any time. Naturally he didn’t supply anything but segued into some other diatribe as is this creature’s trademark.

      This is what we’re dealing with and exactly how they’re teaching our kids to act. All those on the recent strikes are the worst generation yet.

      390

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        By the way, I strongly advocate for the schooling system to force mandatory climatological lessons upon students.

        The schooling system?

        Like the one that opposes academic freedom?

        Yep, that’d work, wouldn’t it?

        Like it did and continues to do for Professor Peter Ridd.

        Speaking of Peter Ridd, this is the latest:

        https://www.gofundme.com/f/peter-ridd-legal-action-fund?viewupdates=1&rcid=r01-15700815615-9a4f011dadd94e0b&utm_medium=email&utm_source=customer&utm_campaign=p_email%2B1137-update-supporters-v5b

        “Dear All, In addition to the cash seen on the gofundme page we have also received just over $105500 in direct transfers, cheques and other commitments so we have cracked the $500K figure. Things have slowed down for the moment, but it is a phenomenal effort considering there has not been much media interest. We have some plans for the next few weeks.

        We had some good news that the National Tertiary Education Union (NTEU) has applied to the court to be represented at the appeal and will argue, like us, that Judge Vasta’s decision is correct. The NTEU, of which I was a member for about 25 years, has an obvious interest in academic freedom and if they are accepted by the court, it will do our chances no harm at all. We expect JCU to oppose. It says something about JCU that we have got support from the IPA and the union, which are often philosophically at opposite ends of a debate.

        The funds requested in this gofundme campaign is to get us all the way to the High Court, although the first step of the appeal will be heard in the Federal Court. We have little faith that JCU will accept the Federal Court ruling if/when they lose. And we have no great hopes that either the state of federal government will take any action to stop this waste of money. The dates for the federal court appeal hearing have still not been set, but could just possibly be as early as November – and if not, February is another possibility. We should find out in the next week or so.

        We are still a bit short of what we will need for the Federal Court component, about $750K, but we are in striking distance.

        Many thanks again to all of you.”

        He needs to meet his target if he is to have a fighting chance.

        Please donate.

        170

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        Thanks ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N. I really enjoyed reading your post.
        Engaging with the Green Left is like handling a wet bar of soap in a prison shower surrounded by Green Leftists. One seems doomed to drop the soap and the rest.
        The zealot will not accept facts and appears locked into a belief system exemplifying a denial of reality that is viciously and irrationally projected upon everyone else around them. Comedic non-PC farce, and dismissal are the only useful weapons. Holding a mirror up to the verbiage and reflecting it back seems effective. Alinsky has his uses.
        The indoctrinated reasonable sheeple are very easy to ‘awaken’ with a string of facts, observations and reasoned commentary. The hardest thing is trying to maintain plausibility and not to sound like a conspiracy nut as the awakened surveys the constellation of institutions, politicians, ‘educators’, MSM and scientivists spouting the drivel and genuflecting to the scam, and wonders how so many can get it wrong.
        History is littered with exemplars of that phenomenon, Dr Joseph Goldberger and the story of pellagra makes good telling, or the more recent understanding of the role of H.Pylori, identified in 1982 by Australian scientists Barry Marshall and Robin Warren, who found that it was present in a person with chronic gastritis and gastric ulcers, conditions not previously believed to have a microbial cause

        120

        • #
          ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

          Thanks Latus.

          That greenie, although some 40 years old and should know better, is essentially overwhelmed by anyone calling themselves a “scientist”. In his eyes they can’t do wrong and he reveres them as something akin to alchemists of the Dark Ages, and it’s probably no wonder considering product advertising over the last generation.

          “Clinically Proven”
          “Clinically tested”
          “Clinically Trialled”

          Exchange “clinically” for “scientifically” and you cover the rest. It’s all appeal to authority, probably because he continues to refuse to grasp that his overlord “scientists” are just people that can be and are often anywhere from good and honest to corruptible and immensely evil. He even demanded my scientific credentials (as they do of course), to which I noted that The Goreacle openly stated you don’t have to be a climate scientist to see climate change, but just look out the window. He still doesn’t grasp the hypocrisy.

          140

          • #
            Dean

            Wear a white lab coat during your discussions, he will revere you.

            70

            • #
              Latus Dextro

              I reckon you should strive to trigger him to explode, mimic the kids in school subject to terminal Green abuse.
              Wear a KAG 2020 hat, or any of the assorted superb garments with great logos available here, at The MAGA Shop.

              50

            • #
              sophocles

              Whatever you do: don’t omit the scientifically labelled and tested plastic pocket protector from the lab coat. It’s an important part of the image.

              30

          • #
            Latus Dextro

            I think that science in general, scientists, and scientivists in particular have been successfully demeaned and subverted by the globalists, corporatists and neo-Marxists alike. The appeal of authority has been thoroughly displaced by the ad hominem attack when one fails to bend to the will of the kollectiv.
            The outstanding profession of the moment are the hardcore engineers, the guys and few gals who peddle reality, the mathematics and the physics, of the physical World all in the same breath.

            90

            • #
              Greg in NZ

              One of my twin nieces, about to turn 30, a structural engineer, has returned from 3 years in Edinburgh helping design/build bridges & overpasses in Scotland (after 3 years doing the same here). She’s a maths/numbers whizz, going places – and she skateboards & snowboards like her Uncle Greg. If her calculations fail, people could get hurt, and questions would be asked.

              Her non-identical sister (degree in media/comms) skydives above Byron Bay for a living and travels to LA, Norway, Dubai, Perth… numbers and checking numbers/lines keeps herself, and others, alive. Planes occasionally fall from the sky, however she’s managed – so far, so good – to not be on one of those. She surfs too – yep, I’m such a baaad influence (their mother / my sister says). Thankfully they’ve both figured out CCC just don’t add up: there is hope for the yoof!

              50

          • #
            theRealUniverse

            Good points, totally unscientific.
            “Clinically Proven” = unproven
            “Clinically tested” = untested
            “Clinically Trialled” = untrialled.
            Clinically = ‘done by some company to show their stuff is great’.
            Meaningless terms.

            40

            • #
              ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

              It all pretty much means: “We got dudes in expensive suits with briefcases telling you we’ve also got dudes in white coats telling us our rubbish is good, and don’t you dare argue or our suited dudes will ruin ya because umm.. science? Yeh.. Take that. Nyaaar.”

              30

    • #
      Lionell Griffith

      I suggest, first require that the teachers work on a farm for ten years and EARN their living from doing it before they start trying to teach. That way, they would have actual first hand experience with the real world and had to deal with it successfully. They then might be able to avoid making copies of copies of copies of … out of the minds of their students. Which is what mostly happens in our so called education system.

      150

    • #
      JKintheUSA

      As an American, according to international conventions and what not, I must upvote all comments I read containing the term “codswallop!”

      150

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        I believe that it can be a very painful condition.

        90

      • #
        AndyG55

        “I must upvote all comments I read containing the term “codswallop!”

        balderdash and folderol. !! !

        70

        • #
          AndyG55

          and of course absolute poppycock, twaddle and tommyrot etc etc

          70

          • #
            WXcycles

            Fiddle-sticks!

            50

            • #
              sophocles

              I won’t add to the list of words. Instead I will tell all (moderately) educated adults (and any minor who actually knows how to use a Thesaurus) to Section 517 Unmeaningless of Roget’s Thesaurus.

              I cite Roget’s Thesaurus rather than others because I came across this little gem of a footnote:
              A few apparently obsolete words have nevertheless found their way into the Thesaurus. In justification of their admission, it may be contended that well-known words, though no longer current, give occasional point by an archaic form of expression, and are of value to the novelist or dramatist who has to depict a bygone age.

              It is, of course, immediately preceded in the main text by:
              Words which have, in process of time, become obsolete are of course rejected from this collection.

              ‘ello, ‘ello, ‘ello. Sounds like the BOM doesn’t it?

              So the ACORN Homogenized Versions v1 and v2 are actually published editions of the “BOM Australian Temperatures Thesaurus. with 5000 temperature similarities for all sites, both mainstream and exceptional.

              30

  • #
    Binny Pegler

    The only vaguely plausible explanation I can think of, is it primary function was cyclone wind speed.
    Given it was put there in 1980 when no one really gave much thought to temps. Back then the BOM was still concerned about real problems – like cyclones.

    250

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      It’s surely useful. But not for “homogenising” other stations.

      80

    • #
      WXcycles

      What’s for sure is it needs to be removed – now.

      50

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      The BOM is hell bent on trying to prove a failed theory (if it was even a theory) of human caused global warming. No matter how much they fiddle it it just wont work. I just heard from Aunty (BC) that there are going to be ‘unprecedented’ seasonal high temperatures. Note that you never hear of ‘unprecedented’ cold (from the BOM or Aunty).

      50

  • #
    Vishnu

    It’s not a problem as the cooling effect of the ocean balances out the heating effect of the shed.

    1124

  • #
    AndyG55

    Question. If Cairns is good enough to be an ACORN site..

    WHY does it need “adjusting™” using site like this one ????????????

    251

    • #
      Phoenix44

      It needs adjusting if it records the wrong temperature…

      240

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Perfectly alright for night time readings, as long as there are no burning asteroids as hot as solar plasma waffling about overhead.

        80

        • #
          Bill in Oz

          No !
          Sugar loading
          Happens 24/7
          When needed
          Thus machinery
          Operates 24/7
          When needed !

          100

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            There is also the machinery inside the shed giving off heat. Diesel motors I suppose, as we know that Greenies think these are wonderful (see S.A. and Vic. electricity systems).

            140

      • #
        glen Michel

        I can tell you that Lucinda jetty is a fishing hotspot. Queenfish, giant Trevally and some monstrous Groper. Green turtles abound. Come to think of it, it’s green turtles all the way down.

        110

      • #
        Komrade Kuma

        and if it does not show some warming then obviously it is the wrong temperature.

        BTW, its not ‘experts’ that have put this whole CAGW/global warming/climate change/warming/heating etc thing together. It ‘x-spurts’ a compound of unknown quantities and drips under pressure. Can I suggest we all start using that term in much the same way the CAGW alarmists use ‘denier’?

        30

  • #
    Trent

    If it has been there since 1980 then regardless of the inappropriate placement it should have almost 40 years of data which should all be biased in the same direction. Is that data accessible anywhere?

    53

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      But it is bloody useless as temperature reading.
      Who knows when the sun was shining and the roof was hot ?
      Who knows when the sun was in shade and the roof was not hot ?
      Who knows when the sugar loading machinery or equipment
      under the shed roof was in operation and generating heat ?
      Utter bloody incompetence
      Sack the bastards !
      And these temp readings get to adjust the Cairns BOM weather site
      Which is part of BOM’s precious ACORN set !
      Garbage !

      200

    • #
      AndyG55

      Trent, see post #10 below

      Yes the data is available..

      It shows ZERO TREND, as expected from a site unaffected by UHI.

      130

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        So, no global warming?

        Who’d have guessed?

        Yep. Yep.

        I’m waiting for Peter Fitz to tell us the alarmist’s take om that.

        Hello, Peter. CX4 to control.

        90

  • #
    AndyG55

    Furthermore, if the site hasn’t been audited since 2002, when was it last calibrated ?????

    151

  • #
    Bulldust

    Slightly on topic … The Conversation pushing a piece that is full metal alarmist:

    https://theconversation.com/if-warming-exceeds-2-c-antarcticas-melting-ice-sheets-could-raise-seas-20-metres-in-coming-centuries-124484

    2C warming and sea levels will* rise 20m!!!!!!!1one!

    * possibly

    111

    • #
      Geoff Sherrington

      Bulldust,

      Beaten lately by the Con asserting that industry funding of academic research is EVIL.
      No evidence given. Just outpourings of childlike hate. Geoff S.

      121

      • #
        Another Ian

        Geoff

        How about this correction?

        ” asserting that global warming industry funding of academic research is EVIL.”

        150

      • #
        Bulldust

        I am sure they are enjoying The Echo Chamber ‘Conversation’ now that all wrong think has been memory holed.

        120

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      From a small compilation of predictions I’ve assembled recently.
      2010: Greenland Ice Sheet has less than 10 years
      “What is going on in the Arctic now is the biggest and fastest thing that nature has ever done”. The entire mass of Greenland will disappear if temperatures rise as little as 2℃.… unleashing a sea level rise of 7 metres by 2020. The Guardian reporting on “evidence” to House of Rep. meeting.

      140

    • #
      el gordo

      ’2C warming and sea levels will* rise 20m!!!!!!!1one!’

      Its not generally known that during the Holocene Climate Optimum between 8000 and 6000 years ago it was 1-2 C warmer than present.

      Sadly there is no going back to those wonderful days with an extra 10% moisture in the atmosphere.

      40

      • #
        Bulldust

        Another thing that bemuses me is that Efes (ruins in Turkey) are somewhat inland. Why is this funny? Well the ruins include a harbour. It is inland and uphill somewhat. Here is a google maps link to the location. The bit labelled “Alter Hafen Ephesus” is the old harbour.

        50

        • #
          Bulldust

          Efes was active in the 6000+BC to around a few hundred years BC period.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephesus

          40

        • #
          Bulldust

          BTW and sorry for the repeat posts … it is well worth a visit. I did it while cruising the Med during a stop in Kusadesi. The Efes ruins are being reinstated to their former glory. While much of the recreation is a mixture of the original stonework and modern reconstruction, the overall effect is far more impressive than Pompeii, IMHO, and I am one who doesn’t generally have that much interest in historic sites.

          30

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      coming centuries..? So we KNOW that the models are accurate out to at least 500 years right?
      Please explain using known physical laws how continental ice melts under 0C. On a warm day it gets to at least -20.

      10

  • #
    Serge Wright

    Unfortunately, as we have seen by the recent enormous upward adjustment made to Acorn 2, the quality and siting of the sensors no longer seems to matter. The BOM will simply adjust the readings to match the faulty models anyway. The reality of the situation today is that the BOM might just as well toss out all of the recording stations, because they are now meaningless in terms of their value to their highly modified climate data.

    I would think that the only option available is to start a privately funded BOM that builds and maintains a smaller but select select group of weather stations that are sited corectly and are well away from human influences and UHI.

    200

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Serge:

      NOAA did that in the USA in response to criticism of their (then) network. They reported earlier this year that that had found no sign of warming in 14 years.

      150

  • #

    Throw another shrimp on the sugar loader thermometer.

    120

    • #
      AndyG55

      Thing is, its probably been very consistently unrealistic to land temperatures,

      but the trend will be unaffected by big urban heat issues.

      81

  • #
    AndyG55

    Interestingly, despite big gaps

    The max temperatures show a trend of NEGATIVE 0.0202 per year

    The min temperatures show a trend of positive 0.0071 per year

    As I said, no urban effect here.. ;-)

    NO WARMING AT ALL !!!

    201

    • #
      AndyG55

      Obviously NOT used by BOM ;-)

      131

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      So despite this station having a bad site, it is not showing warming, or even UHI
      Logically, therefore the site must be OK and Ken is wrong
      What exactly is your point? Site bad (on a roof) or Site good (no warming)

      518

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Peter:

        Think! If a lousy site which should be showing warming DOESN’T, what does that say about the climate?

        170

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          It says absolutely nothing about climate, for a start it is a weather station, it is not part of the ACORN network. As a weather station it seems to be doing a bang up job. My point stands, despite it being on a roof, it is recording a consistent pattern – so is it a bad site, or a good one?

          421

          • #
            Bill in Oz

            “Bang Up Job ” ?
            No Fitz
            It’s been ‘Banged up”
            By BOM.
            Totally stuffed in fact !
            have you left your brain in neutral these past few years ?

            111

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              So it is a bad site. Poor Andy, he loves it as it shows no warming, will you break it to him?

              28

              • #
                AndyG55

                You said that it was Consistent

                as has been shown MANY times, CONSISTENT sites show little or no warming

                that FACT really hurts your brain-washed little mind, doesn’t it PF. :-)

                40

          • #
            AndyG55

            Great that CONSISTENT SITES SHOW NO WARMING, isn’t it PF

            Take a big deep breathe, and then another faceplant into your own BS,

            So Funny to watch. :-)

            101

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            It was only a matter of time Peter before you turned up and made a fool of yourself.

            How do you manage to do it so consistently?

            Do you still believe that man-made CO2 is the predominant driver of global warming?

            Do you ever read the IPCC’s reports? Did you ever ready TAR? It makes the point:

            “In climate research and modelling, we should recognize that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible.” (Working Group 1. Chapter 14: Advancing Our Understanding, Section 14.2.2.2. Page 771 and 774)

            Read it Peter. Then explain it.

            https://archive.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/pdf/TAR-14.PDF

            110

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              Well I could have a stab, but this links says it all – and is the response to the questions raised in your link
              https://cmip6workshop19.sciencesconf.org/data/CMIP6_CMIP6AnalysisWorkshop_Barcelona_190325_FINAL.pdf
              Page 4 have a good overview

              /science moves on

              38

              • #
                AndyG55

                “science moves on”

                But its not moving on, they are still building on the basis of provable WRONG models.

                Its like trying build a second floor on a house with foundations on quicksand and riddled with termites. !

                40

              • #
                el gordo

                Fitz you would be better off arguing that Ocean Heat Content (OHC) is a global warming signal.

                http://www.realclimate.org/images//resplandy_new_fig1.png

                50

              • #
                Bill in Oz

                E G I looked at that image.
                It is Bullsh#t Baffles Brains stuff !
                :-(

                30

              • #
                el gordo

                Then I think Fitz would expect a graph from you, maybe Bob Tisdale has something.

                10

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                OK Peter, I’ve had a very close look at your reference. If you think it responds to the IPCC’s conclusion in TAR (as per my link) then you’d better study it more closely.

                I see that clouds. Circulation, regional phenomena, ocean, land and ice are still in the red zone and suffer under systematic biases (their words, not mine).

                I see that the linked study area: The Cloud Feedback Model Intercomparison Project (CFMIP) contribution to CMIP6 , for example, makes it clear that the issue of clouds is still very much an unknown.

                https://www.geosci-model-dev.net/10/359/2017/

                Quote:

                “CFMIP also proposes a number of additional model outputs in the CMIP DECK, CMIP6 Historical and CMIP6 CFMIP experiments, including COSP simulator outputs and process diagnostics to address the following questions.
                1. How well do clouds and other relevant variables simulated by models agree with observations?
                2. What physical processes and mechanisms are important for a credible simulation of clouds, cloud feedbacks and cloud adjustments in climate models?
                3. Which models have the most credible representations of processes relevant to the simulation of clouds?
                4. How do clouds and their changes interact with other elements of the climate system?”

                So, yet again we see that they don’t know. And, their models can’t accurately project future scenarios, let alone results that align with actual observations.

                Why is that Peter, do you think?

                Might it be because the IPCC’s TAR conclusion was, and remains, accurate? You know, the conclusion that said:

                “we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible”.

                Nothing in you reference changes that.

                In light of this I remain astounded at you zealotry for the hypothesis that man-made CO2 is the predominant driver of global warming.

                80

              • #
                theRealUniverse

                @Sceptical Sam

                Yes I dont think they have a clue.
                Models are based on nonsence. I dont buy any feedback in the atmosphere.
                The atmosphere is it total thermodynamic equilibrium from the ground to the top of the stratosphere.
                The energy transfer is by thermodynamic processes. Water vapour is significant in this process.

                60

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                That is impressive, particularly when you consider the amount of energy required to make that change

                21

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Peter Fitzroy says:

                That is impressive, particularly when you consider the amount of energy required to make that change

                Yes. It is impressive.

                Your link puts the lie to your argument that somehow the models are fit for purpose.

                Clearly they’re not. And, your link demonstrates why.

                It also demonstrates the truth of the IPCC’s conclusion that: “In climate research and modelling, we should recognize that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible.” (Working Group 1. Chapter 14: Advancing Our Understanding, Section 14.2.2.2. Page 771 and 774).

                30

          • #
            me@home

            The Lucinda Point site is used to adjust temperatures at Cairns

            10

      • #
        AndyG55

        As you have always admitted PF, there is no human caused “global” warming.

        Seems you are now admitting that what warming there is, is coming ONLY from UHI effects.

        So, PF has now stated

        1. NO human caused warming except from UHI effects.

        1. NO human effect on global temperatures or climate

        Two very definitive statement you have now made, PF

        WELL DONE.. A very REALIST viewpoint.

        Maybe there is hope for you.

        101

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          your point 1 – No I’ve never said that, What I have said is that we live in a human construct.
          your point 1 – No I’ve never said that, What I have said is that we live in a human construct.

          /2 point 1 (sea level rise in mm)

          28

          • #
            AndyG55

            No, you said you couldn’t find any scientific evidence for human effects on the global temperature.

            Stop LYING to try to cover your ar*e.

            50

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              I did say that andy, but why not include the rest of the sentence, which basically says that there is nothing I can present which you would accept.

              23

              • #
                AndyG55

                So you ADMIT that you said that you CAN’T FIND ANY SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE for either warming by atmospheric CO2 or any other human effect on global climate

                Thanks for reiterating your statement.

                Just because you are clueless about what science is..

                … don’t blame me for your ineptitude.

                40

          • #
            el gordo

            Sea Level Rise

            ‘The WMO report said the highest rates of ocean warming are occurring in the southern ocean, where warming has also reached the deepest layers.

            ‘This could result in sea levels being substantially different in different places, experts have previously said.

            ‘The thermal expansion—water swelling as it warms—is expected to raise sea levels 12 inches (30 centimetres), above any sea level rise from melting glaciers and ice sheets, according to the research published in Science.’ Phys.org

            30

    • #
      Dave in the States

      Yes, forty years of data showing no warming! That is a useful metric, because even if it’s useless as a comparison to other data, it is wholly and precisely calibrated to itself.

      80

    • #
      JCalvertN(UK)

      UHI always causes an error. But UHI only gives a warming trend if it *intensifies* – i.e. if the error increases.

      In this case there an be no doubt about the existence of a large source of error. But that error has remained constant for many years. Hence little to no warming trend.

      70

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        ? error ?
        it is measuring the temperature accurately. And it shows the warming trend accurately, see the BEST reanalysis for the details

        28

        • #
          AndyG55

          The WORST, you mean.. rabid alarmist, all of them

          Data manipulation is their thing.. Regional Expectations etc etc.

          “it is measuring the temperature accurately”

          Data at this site shows a slight cooling on maximum trend and a slighter warming on minimums

          Average is COOLING very slightly.

          You are MAKING UP LIES again, PF

          30

        • #
          JCalvertN(UK)

          Have you studied “Sources of error”? (For me, it was Prac. No.1 of Physics 101.)

          If what you are trying to measure is the temperature of the air above a hot tin roof, then the Lucinda arrangement is pretty good. But if what you are trying to measure is a representative temperature for the region, then the hot tin roof is a major source of error.

          00

  • #
    Latus Dextro

    What, if any, are the effects of a savagely corrosive briny air on the electrical connections, exposed metal of the measuring equipment?

    80

  • #

    Guess you could call it anthropological warming. Put it down to human forsite ‘n BOM ADDjustments. https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/hobart_wxstation2.jpg?resize=640%2C330

    90

  • #
    destroyer D69

    Mackay QLD weather station is on a hill overlooking the harbour.Approx 100 meters high and exposed totally to sea breezes etc. Mackay airport weather for aviation would always be adjusted by 5 degrees to compensate.

    90

  • #
    Michael262

    Jo,
    Years of whingeing in the void, yet no peer reviewed publication of worth to show for it, not even David can get anything to float.
    Why are you so adverse to engaging with your fellow scientists ?.

    227

    • #
      el gordo

      Do you think temperatures at Dubbo Airport have risen 10 degrees in 40 years?

      130

    • #
      Dave

      So Michael
      You have no questions on the Lucinda station used by BOM?

      What about Cyclone Yasi and then they replaced the Black Bitumen Asbestos Sheets with Steel?

      Two big events in that location, but on the actual roof which changed colour and heat reflection & absorption properties?

      A scientist questions all the factors involved!

      Do you want details on the two roof systems, or do you think the BOM engineers homogenised the difference between the two because they would have accounted for this difference?

      But then, you are the expert!

      How DARE WE!

      171

      • #
        Michael262

        No Dave,
        I’ve cut to the chase, that is the veracity of science, which the sceptics can’t seem to address in the real world.
        Just leave thumbsey land and submit a decent paper.

        418

        • #
          Bill in Oz

          See below trolling Mike !

          90

        • #
          AndyG55

          “that is the veracity of science”

          No mickey.. you have just shown how LACKING in knowledge about science you really are

          Peer review is about journal publication.. that is all.

          You obviously have never been anywhere near any real science, have you, little mickey.

          121

        • #

          A decent paper expressing substantial doubts or skepticism wouldn’t make it through, as you well know. Climatology has been degraded to a quasi-science railed on a rigid political narrative.

          Michael, your invitations to “engage” or just invitations to bang on a closed and locked door. And you know it. Please don’t be coy.

          170

    • #

      A gang-reviewed publication in this age of Publish-then-Perish? On a hyper-politicised subject? Quaternary denial and Holocene denial as conditions of publication? (And better ignore geology, stratigraphy, speleology, glaciology, archaeology and history while you’re at it. Can lead to tedious complexities and distract from the big C.)

      I’d find Greta’s dry sobbing and face twisting more convincing.

      200

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        oh I see, the whole world is against me. woe, woe woe.

        The fact that even the best funded denialist site, The Heartland Institute, can not get anything serious published, says what?

        319

        • #
          Bill in Oz

          Do try and stay on topic please Fitz.
          The topic is the BOM’s incompetence.
          Sigh !

          110

        • #

          Like I said, it’s a high bar, Pete. You have to ignore, dismiss or deny geology, stratigraphy, speleology, glaciology, archaeology and history. And the natural sciences and natural history generally. Also, you need a faith in cheap-jack statistics and Meccano modeling that couldn’t make a chicken coop stand up. (Woe woe woe.)

          110

    • #
      AndyG55

      Poor Empty little mickey262, seeking virtue and attention.

      Go and light some candles at your Greta shrine, drone.

      152

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      This is NOT Jo’s post Mike.
      It’s Ken Carter’s.
      Citizen scientist !
      And should you wish to peer review his work
      By all means, go & have a read of it
      And offer your ‘criticisms’ if any
      Before you open you gob here !

      170

      • #

        Correction, Bill- I’m Ken Stewart.

        130

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          And there are 120 deficient BoM sites (so far) listed on Ken’s Kingdom.

          110

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            out of 20,000 or way less than 1% – fantastic!

            /one bad apple…

            117

            • #
              Bill in Oz

              Bloody idiot Fitz !
              There are 700+ in Australia
              And 120 out of 38 checked are defective
              By the BOM’s own guidelines
              Can’y you understand the facts ?
              Or are you here to try and confuse us with dopiness ?

              100

              • #
                Bill in Oz

                Defective key board !
                “And 120 out of 380 checked are defective”

                110

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                from the BOM website “Under this international system Australia is assigned less than one thousand site numbers, whereas we hold data for about 20,000 sites in the climate archive”

                /more than 700

                212

              • #
                AndyG55

                And most of those will be far worse than the crap sites Ken has looked at

                A sample giving a massive failure rate of 1 in 3 means that are one heck of a lot of really crap site.

                Remember, PF, your failure rate is n out of n, as n tends to infinity.

                71

              • #
                Bill in Oz

                Bloody Dopey Fitzroy quotes BOM :
                “from the BOM website “Under this international system Australia is assigned less than one thousand site numbers, whereas we hold data for about 20,000 sites in the climate archive”

                Yes it’s assigned less than 1000 site numbers.. And actually operates 700+.

                There are a whole lot more which are ‘dead’ sites. Old sites no longer used. from former times. And there is no point in checking them as they are ‘dead”

                Poor Fitzroy !

                Sigh !

                40

            • #
              AndyG55

              Its alright PF,

              1 in 3 really bad sites used to “adjust™” ACORN site which are meant to be good sites.

              It just climate science, isn’t it, PF. !! ;-)

              61

            • #
              Robert Swan

              The full quotation is “One bad apple spoils the whole barrel”, so yes, “one bad apple” is a bad thing.

              40

        • #
          Bill in Oz

          Pardon Ken
          Long day.
          Glad you are here commenting !
          Thought you were away on a break !
          :-)

          60

          • #

            No worries Bill, I get to check on the world about twice a day in between grandkids activities.
            And yes, Peter Fitzroy, there are 720+ stations reporting daily temperature at the BOM “Latest Weather Observations” page which is what is relied on by media. Of those 720+, so far I have found 143 that don’t meet basic specifications (have only reported on 119). So approaching one in five deficient so far. About half of Queensland sites are no good. NT and WA still to go. There are many more rainfall, pressure, tidal, wind speed etc stations but I’m looking only at temperature.

            110

            • #
              AndyG55

              Ken ,

              Looking at one at Guyra Hospital. NSW

              Overhead and street view give different positions

              https://i.postimg.cc/TYkDJW6J/guyra-AWS.png

              Overhead seems to show it in the yellow circle,

              but if you go to street view and stand at the red dot, you can clearly see it in the light green circle somewhere

              31

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              That is a very high rate Ken. HAve you contacted the BOM and asked the obvious question?

              32

              • #

                I intend to look at the whole set before then. Besides I am pretty much persona non grata at BOM.

                80

              • #
                AndyG55

                ” I am pretty much persona non grata at BOM.”

                Chuckle..

                Now I wonder why that might be! ;-)

                50

              • #
                rk

                Peter, You obviously have no idea how bad the BOM is in all it’s operations. On the 16th December 2015 a small group of thunderstorms moved in over the Kurnell area near Botany Bay and certainly did damage to many poorly constructed dwellings. Their weather site showed a wind gust of 213 k.p.h. from 10.33 AM TO 10.37 AM. Exactly the same over a five minute period and the wind changing through different directions. This DOES NOT HAPPEN IN THE REAL WORLD and yet they have it in their records for the highest wind record. Gusts are measured over 20 to 30 seconds and would not exceed the average wind at that time of about 75 k.p.h.by 300%. Not possible for a storm at that time of the morning coming in from the sea with temperature of around 24 C. In July 2013 Adelaide BOM could not forecast fog 20 minutes ahead forcing two B737s to divert to Mildura, one landing blind with 15 minutes of fuel left. Everything about the BOM involves, incompetence, stupidity and cover ups. With 55 years in aviation I speak from first hand experience.

                70

              • #
                rk

                atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2013/aair/ao-2013-100/ Peter, read this about the Mildura debacle. After a three year inquiry no one at BOM received any sort of penalty

                40

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                So, the internet equivalent of howling at the moon, and as effective

                12

              • #
                AndyG55

                “and as effective”

                So PF now ADMITS that BOM are closed shop, not interested in improving the accuracy of their data in any way.

                You are getting quite good at this now, PF ;-)

                30

    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      It’s not about 1. ‘science’, and 2. peer review was trashed years ago …

      1. Former United Nations climate official Ottmar Edenhofer:

      “One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy.

      This has almost nothing to do with the environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole,” said Edenhofer, who co-chaired the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change working group on Mitigation of Climate Change from 2008 to 2015.

      “We redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy,” said Edenhofer.”

      https://climatefraudlinks.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/un-ipcc-climate-policy-wealth-re-distribution/

      Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of U.N.’s Framework Convention on [Global Warming], made a similar statement.

      “This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution,” she said in anticipation of last year’s Paris climate summit.

      “This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model for the first time in human history.”

      https://www.unric.org/en/latest-un-buzz/29623-figueres-first-time-the-world-economy-is-transformed-intentionally

      2. Climate body chief defends use of ‘grey literature’

      But the IPCC’s chairman said there was a need to use information which was not from peer-reviewed scientific journals, because in some places that was the only research that had been done.

      The head of the UN’s climate change panel has defended the use of unproven science to justify [global warming] by saying the “grey literature” cannot be ignored.

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/7725266/Climate-body-chief-defends-use-of-grey-literature.html

      It really is the worst apocalypse. Ever.

      171

    • #
      Antoine D'Arche

      Look I’ve got 5mins waiting for dinner…
      there’s another person on this blog that uses the same distraction technique. Taught by the same crowd? Reading from the same playbook. Ignore the obvious. Cast doubt on the credentials of anyone opposing AGW etc etc etc Sometimes successful, mostly because we like to give people like you a flogging when given the opportunity. Same technique taught by Alinsky et al.
      You guys really need to expand your repertoire.
      Understand, junior, that you don’t effect the inertia of the anti-AGW movement at all. Not Jo’s resolve, not my resolve, not any significant number of people.
      You don’t matter.

      180

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        Tony, Get to the point man.
        Don’t waffle on with obscure references
        That nobody understands
        KISS Mate !
        Keep It Simple Stupid !

        31

        • #
          Antoine D'Arche

          no I want to be clear and unambiguous so they are left in no doubt as to their place in the world.
          And their ultimate fate.
          Cause “Santa” is making a list….

          40

    • #
      glen Michel

      Adverse 262? Sure, but don’t blame predictive text. Invidious and cretinous. Pics off !

      40

  • #
    Bill in Oz

    I am amazed that there are still
    Dopey idiots willing to come here and ‘defend’
    The BOM’s utter incompetence.
    Do they have brains t think with ?
    Seemingly not.
    Do they know that the BOM has it’s own guidelines
    For siting all it’s Weather stations ?
    Seemingly not.
    Do they know that that 120 + BOM weather stations
    Have been failed By Ken
    By assessing them against the BOM’s own guidelines ?
    Seemingly not.
    Or are they simply paid trolls for whom
    Accurate measurement of temperatures by the BOM is not important ?
    Seems like that is what they are !

    140

  • #
    AndyG55

    Another point of note is that this site which shows a slight NEGATIVE MAXIMUM TEMPERATURE TREND

    would be a good proxy for sea temperatures on the Great Barrier Reef.

    91

  • #
    AndyG55

    This site would be a proxy for the sea surface temperatures on the Great Barrier Reef

    and it has a slightly NEGATIVE trend in maximum daily temperatures.

    61

  • #
    robert rosicka

    BOM can do no harm to these trolls they just soak it up as part of the religion and defend .
    Bit rich Micky asking for evidence when he , she ,it , they , the – whatever has supplied zip .

    80

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Just going out on a limb here but Mr Edwards you seem to very sciency so could you let us know what expertise you bring to the table ?
    Me I bring none just commonsense.

    40

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    O/T but interesting watching the tide turning….

    This father has exercised common sense. Well done. Should be more of it.

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/we-shouldnt-be-worrying-boys-anger-over-climate-education/ar-AAIcWbk?li=AAgfYrC&ocid=mailsignout

    “A fed-up father has pulled his son out of school and has accused staff of brainwashing children, after the climate movement made its way in to his son’s Year 4 classroom.

    “”Around the country thousands of students have taken to the streets to protest on climate change, but Matthew Karlos is infuriated about the topic being taught at his son’s state school claiming, “it’s ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.”

    Mr Karlos’ 10-year-old son Max told A Current Affair reporter Pippa Bradshaw “they asked us all to dress up as hippies, and sing this song, big yellow taxi.”

    “”We shouldn’t be worrying about the end of the world,” he said.
    Agreeing with his son, Mr Karlos claims, “it’s just brainwashing the younger generations.”

    …………………..

    “”And now he’s had enough of his son also getting the greenie message at his state school.

    “”You’ve gotta (sic) teach kids to be happy and positive and it’s all well and good to be concerned about the environment and wanting to teach kids good practices and basically not be grubs and throw litter around and this sort of thing, but you don’t have to be a greenie to do that,” he said.

    “Parenting expert Dr Justin Coulson believes teachers are better off keeping the message positive, when it comes to primary school children.

    100

  • #
    pat

    TWEET: The Australian
    In a major foreign policy address to the Lowy Institute, Scott Morrison takes aim at the UN’s push to set the global agenda on issues such as climate change LINK
    3 Oct 2019
    https://twitter.com/australian/status/1179722238448132096

    behind paywall:

    PM slap for UN in new world order
    The Australian – 1h ago
    Scott Morrison has declared his government will lead the charge in asserting the authority of nation states over unelected international institutions, such as the UN. The Prime Minister, in a major foreign policy address to the Lowy Institute on Thursday evening, signalled …

    80

    • #
      pat

      3 Oct: Australian: PM’s powerful rhetoric has global ramifications
      by Greg Sheridan
      In a striking departure from orthodox Australian rhetoric, Scott Morrison has defined the type of globalisation he does not like.
      The Prime Minister remains an advocate of free trade, low tariff barriers, a rules-based international order and all the rest, but in a powerful address to the Lowy Institute he has set out his conviction that effective international action on big global issues comes from nation states co-operating freely.
      As he puts it, “individual, like-minded sovereign nations acting together with enlightened self-interest”.

      As opposed to this, he rejects the arrogance of a “new variant of globalism that seeks to elevate global institutions above the authority of nation states to direct national policies”.
      This kind of globalism, Morrison rightly argues, leads to “elite opinion and attitudes” that “become disconnected from the mainstream” in their societies.
      This in turn produces an alienating era of “insiders and outsiders”…

      It would be absurd to equate Morrison with US President Donald Trump, but these ideas have some resonance with Trump’s recent speech to the UN and with the proud but moderate nationalism that Boris Johnson is championing in Britain.
      It is worth remembering Trump won the US election and Johnson is more than 10 per cent ahead of the Labour opposition in Britain…

      In Australia’s context, the criticism he makes is more directed at the plethora of UN agencies, most of which have no public profile in Australia, which criticise Canberra policy on secure borders, refugee flows, ***climate change, aid budgets and the many weird contortions and inversions of human rights that UN agencies and their dependent NGOs promote…
      https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/pms-powerful-rhetoric-has-global-ramifications/news-story/0fb22fb50e7c54750e4aa82f0083a2da?from=htc_rss

      100

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Now watch the Left ramp up in typical wild-eyed lunacy, as it is tasked by the globalists to take down Morrison…..

        40

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Pat,
      The ABC is also reporting it:
      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-04/scott-morrison-takes-jab-at-united-nations-during-lowy-lecture/11572804

      It could be a reasonable report, but I can’t evaluate that. Certainly interesting, even promising, and not paywalled.
      Cheers
      Dave B

      50

  • #
    pat

    2 Oct: NY Mag: James Lovelock: ‘Any Further Interference Is Likely to Be Disastrous’
    By David Wallace-Wells
    WALLACE-WELLS: But thinking more globally, people like you and me, who think about these things in somewhat bigger terms — how concerned should we be?

    LOVELOCK: Well, at first you get into a panic. At least I did. And then eventually you realize that there’s not a lot you can do about it. I mean, did you ever read that book by Martin Rees, Our Final Hour? Well, that was written quite a while back and I think he’s right.
    The warm-up of the sun is quite remorseless, and it will continue. Unless we do something like [physicist Edward] Teller’s idea of putting up sunshades in the heliocentric orbit, we’ve had it. That’s it. There isn’t any way you could survive if the sun continues to warm up.
    ***But nobody can predict the climate in two or three years’ time. It could be almost anything. For example, there was news of a very large volcano eruption emerging in the middle of the Pacific, from below. Well, of course, if that develops and magma starts coming up, that could change the whole picture. I’m hoping it won’t happen and probably it won’t…

    WALLACE-WELLS: When you allow yourself to be optimistic, how do you see the next few decades unfolding?

    LOVELOCK: Well, I won’t be here for one, so I won’t see them. But I think we will have to curb our tendency to burn fossil fuels…What replaces it, I hope, is nuclear, but probably they’ll mess about with renewables for awhile until they find their way to nuclear…
    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/10/james-lovelock-on-nuclear-power-and-if-ai-can-stop-warming.html

    61

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Lovelock has been saying “Go Nuclear” for decades.
      I once watched on the ABC
      A town hall meeting with Lovelock
      Speaking for Nuclear
      He got shouted down by a bunch of lefties.

      60

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        I have a ‘present’ for those lefties..a kg or 2 of enriched Uranium. Too hot to handle?

        20

  • #
    Ruairi

    To further the climate-change spoof,
    And for warmists, a credible proof,
    Of the warming we face,
    Weather experts now place,
    Thermometers on a hot tin roof.

    120

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1003755_cat_on_a_hot_tin_roof (1958)

      “Paul Newman and Elizabeth Taylor… providing an electric undercurrent. 97% TOMATOMETER”.

      • A formaldehyded tabby that sits static while layer after layer of its skin is peeled off, life after life of its nine lives unsentimentally destroyed
      • What a pack of trashy people these accomplished actors perform

      Sounds like yer typical average workday at the BoM or UN headquarters.

      10

  • #
    pat

    3 Oct: Reuters: EU leaders risk trade tension with carbon border tax plan to shield industry
    by Susanna Twidale, Barbara Lewis; additional reporting by Philip Blenkinsop in Brussels, Valerie Volcovici in Washington and Anastasia Lyrchikova in Moscow
    The new European Union executive risks inflaming international tensions over trade and the environment even before it takes office in November by promising a carbon border tax to shelter its industry from the cost of cutting emissions.
    Previous European Commissions have resisted calls, led by steelmakers and traditionally protectionist France, for a carbon levy on imports to protect Europe’s relatively clean and expensive manufacturers from competition from cheaper production elsewhere.

    But fresh momentum has come from increased prices in the EU Emissions Trading System (ETS), the European Union’s flagship instrument for making polluters pay, as well as a rising tide of protectionism led by the United States…
    Some lawyers say the Commission must be prepared to be pulled into trade conflicts or European industry will be destroyed.
    “Either the EU prepares itself for and accepts the risk of retaliation or it simply allows other countries to continue with a major artificial advantage which will increasingly destroy EU manufacturing,” Laurent Ruessmann, Brussels-based partner at Fieldfisher law firm, said…

    The United States, China, Russia and other foreign governments, accused the EU of acting beyond its jurisdiction when it tried to include international aviation in the EU ETS.
    The attempt to charge all aircraft for their pollution led to threats from China to withhold multi-billion-dollar orders for Airbus aircraft, forcing the EU to suspend the law in 2012.

    The United States mission in Brussels, which follows EU policy on behalf of the U.S. government, said it had no comment. No-one from the Chinese government could be reached for comment.
    Russian industry leaders said they were introducing their own measures to curb emissions following Russia’s ratification of the Paris climate accord and in principle any EU tax could be discriminatory…
    Much could depend on the design of any border tax, which so far is entirely unclear and in any case would require years of EU policy-drafting and debate to become law…

    Italy’s Paolo Gentiloni, who is expected to oversee economic affairs in the new Commission, would have a leading role in the policy debate.
    He said last week the design of a border levy must be “carefully crafted to exert political pressure on climate laggards to take action, to ensure that EU companies can compete on a level playing field”…
    The green lobby, meanwhile, worries that riling China — which, unlike the United States, remains engaged in the ongoing U.N. effort to reduce global emissions — could be counter-productive…
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-carbon-bordertax/eu-leaders-risk-trade-tension-with-carbon-border-tax-plan-to-shield-industry-idUSKBN1WH1XO

    41

  • #
    pat

    Poland defies Brussels by vowing to stick to coal
    Financial Times – 3 Oct 2019

    Carbon Brief: Poland is set on a “collision course with the Brussels over climate policy”, the Financial Times reports, as a result prioritising an end to its reliance on Russian gas over signing up to an EU net-zero emissions target. The FT story is based on an interview with Piotr Naimski, Poland’s chief strategic energy advisor, who is quoted telling the paper it is “not possible and not feasible” for his country to reach net-zero by 2050.
    Naimski said coal would still be providing up to half of Poland’s electricity in 2040, the FT reports.
    It adds that the comments “cast doubt on hopes that all EU states will sign up to the [net-zero] target by December’s COP25 climate summit in Chile”.

    40

  • #
    pat

    it’s not only the public who are fed up with this juvenile behaviour that disrupts people’s lives:

    Peter Dutton opens door to cancelling welfare of climate protesters
    In-Depth – The Australian – 7 hours ago

    AUDIO: 13min51sec: 3 Oct: 2GB: Ray Hadley: Peter Dutton calls for public shaming of climate protesters
    Federal minister Peter Dutton is calling for the public to actively shame climate protesters who are “putting lives at risk”.
    It’s been another week of chaos in Brisbane after two illegal protests by climate activist group Extinction Rebellion caused traffic chaos.
    One woman shut down the Victoria Bridge in peak hour on Monday when she suspended herself from a tripod over the Brisbane River.
    Another protest saw a group of six lock themselves to a metal barricade in the middle of Creek Street on Wednesday.

    “People should take these names and the photos of these people and distribute them as far and wide as they can so that we shame these people.
    “Let their families know what you think of their behaviour.”
    He says it’s about time the Queensland government imposed mandatory minimum sentences on the protesters.
    “They should be jailed until their behaviour changes because they’re putting lives at risk.
    “They keep turning up week after week because a slap on the wrist is just not working.”
    https://www.2gb.com/peter-dutton-calls-for-public-shaming-of-climate-protesters/

    2 Oct: UK Telegraph: Extinction Rebellion protests are putting a bigger strain on police than terrorism
    By Martin Evans
    Extinction Rebellionprotests are putting a bigger strain on police resources than the terror attacks of 2017, a senior Scotland Yard officer has warned.
    The Metropolitan Police is planning a major operation next week to counter climate change demonstrators who have vowed to bring central London to a standstill during a fortnight of coordinated activities.
    But Assistant Commissioner Nick Ephgrave said the police response was taking officers away from vital other roles in the capital including tackling knife crime and domestic violence.

    He said since April this year dealing with climate change protests had required more resources than had been needed to police the fallout from the London Bridge and Westminster terror attacks and the Grenfell Tower fire disaster.
    He explained how in 2017, 80,000 police shifts were reallocated to deal with the three major events.
    But he said since April this year, 83,000 shifts had already had to be diverted from frontline duties to other roles such as dealing with Extinction Rebellion protests.
    Mr Ephgrave said while everybody had the right to protest legally, it was important to remember there were consequences such activities…

    Mr Ephrave admitted that many of those charged and even convicted would be back at next week’s protests and he said he had written to the government recommending changes to public order legislation, which could seek the introduction of banning orders for repeat offenders.
    He said: “The idea is that if we have people who are habitually coming to protest unlawfully then it would be helpful potentially to have the ability to prohibit them from so doing.”
    Mr Ephgrave warned anyone considering attending the protests that they would face the full force of the law if they chose to act illegally…
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/02/extinction-rebellion-protests-putting-bigger-strain-police-terrorism/

    80

  • #
    She

    Don’t worry, the Minister is onto it, taking advice from scientists as we post.

    20

  • #
    Vishnu

    Well I’m just recovering from another session of climate change transgender counselling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo8qXxnFuRQ&t=611s “Climate, climate, climate …”

    But really too much sooking on dud weather stations – strange how sceptics prefer the mock outage of “how dare they” and “Sack them all” while avoiding doing another analysis eliminating duds with extreme prejudice..
    Maybe coz you might get a strong case on minima, less on maxima and yep it’s warmed but not as much as BoM state.

    Wonder why this analysis never fronts… Ken Stewart?

    37

    • #

      A dud weather station is likely to give dud temperature data, and if used to adjust Acorn sites, helps give dud climate analysis. It is pointless looking at trends in maxima and minima if the underlying data are unreliable. I am becoming more and more convinced that there is no such thing as good temperature data. Raw is just as bad as adjusted. Garbage in, garbage out.

      140

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        Ken I think Vishnu’s question betrays appalling ignorance.
        He seems to think that the data can be fiddled with on screen
        To rectify any basic dopey siting problem.
        That is the mind set of a computer nerd
        The folk who created the climate science models
        That never reflect reality.
        As you said :
        GIGO
        Garbage in = Garbage Out !

        70

      • #
        Vishnu

        Simple – don’t use ACORN – use the raw data from what you regard as OK stations – next excuse?

        Why bang on about all the problems – give us an independent analysis. That would inform instead of obfuscating.

        23

        • #

          Go back and read 28.1 above. I don’t trust data from any BOM site, and that includes ‘raw’ data.

          50

          • #
            Vishnu

            Well in that case – you know the answer already – why go on? take up origami or woodwork? Surely more relaxing than the Aussie sport of BoM bashing.
            Soon we’ll be at “we don’t know nuttin’ about nuttin’”. Seems a bit nihilistic but as you like it.

            03

            • #
              AndyG55

              Vishy isn’t interested in accurate unadjusted data.

              Just crap that can be used for propaganda.

              Right, Vishy.

              ““we don’t know nuttin’ about nuttin’”.

              Lots of mirrors at your place are there Vishy ?

              20

            • #

              The beginning of all scientific knowledge is to admit your knowledge and understanding is limited. So I don’t know the answer, and I’m trying to find it out, or at least quantify it. What are you doing?

              40

            • #
              Bill in Oz

              Vishnu I think you are a BOM employee
              defending your job
              From scrutiny with obfuscation and BS.
              BOM is buggered
              Get a worthwhile job somewhere else

              20

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                The only “V” comment that I have read is the one linked to the Greta comedy piece, it was hilarious.

                The others have been marked by comments from regular contributors to the blog who seem to paint V as being driven by a force that has no relation to science but more likely Dogma.

                So I haven’t bothered.

                Now we have P and V driving a photovoltaic phantasy through the blog.

                30

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Correct me if I’m wrong Vishnu but the tiny amount these weather stations are out seem to match the tiny amount of warmest ever claims that keep getting spouted by BOM .
      Either a weather station is fit for purpose or it isn’t , if data from the station has to be adjusted it’s no longer data just someone’s idea of what it should be .

      60

      • #
        Vishnu

        Theoretically yes but not quite that simple. Satellite data so beloved of sceptics is one huge adjustment for multiple platforms, orbital drift, sun angle and atmospheric issues. Many instruments are calibrated – that’s adjusting too.

        The “reason” oft used for “adjusting” station time series is that the station may have had a slight move. Breakpoint analysis will reveal such things. If you know about cold air drainage then moving a station downhill will cause an issue.

        Anyway, I’m suggesting ignore the defective stations, ignore the capital cities and their heat islands. Still plenty of stations to analyse!

        30

        • #
          robert rosicka

          You are prepared to ignore a lot of discrepancies and fudging .

          30

          • #
            AndyG55

            Vishy treats all those discrepancies, fudging and “adjustments” as a feature. !!

            30

            • #
              Vishnu

              Not really. But doesn’t matter – the question is whether you wish to be informed by doing your own analysis? Drop out what stations you don’t care for and don’t use ACORN.
              But BoM bashing is more fun if you just want to stay uninformed.

              22

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Just so we can be clear Vishnu are you saying it doesn’t matter if screens are placed in areas subject to influences other than natural elements .
                And you can see nothing wrong with any of BOMs methods or the fact that quite a few stations are in breach of their own guidelines and well out of the WMO guidelines ?

                10

              • #
                AndyG55

                BOM puts itself forward as being “state of the art”

                More like finger painting !!

                It is a government paid department and ought to be open to extensive exterior accounting type audit on a regular basis.

                It should NOT be up to unpaid people like Ken to hunt down all the crap site and all the crap adjustments that BOM are doing.

                Tony Abbott wanted that audit, but got shut down quick smart.

                I wonder why that would be. ;-)

                40

              • #
                Vishnu

                Robert – yes badly sited stations should not be used. Are you sure they use this station? and in any case don’t worry about it – do your own analysis excluding the stations you don’t like. Report back !

                12

              • #

                Vishnu 28.2.1.1.3
                Yes I am sure they use this station, and you can verify that for yourself by looking at Latest Queensland Observations, and the Acorn Station Catalogue. I haven’t finished excluding stations yet, NT and WA still to go. And even the ones that apparently do comply are inspected only once a year and are subject to neglect, vegetation growth, and invasion by animals and insects (like mud wasps- see my post on Rutherglen at kenskingdom.wordpress.com).

                50

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Taxpayers fork out over a Billion dollars a year for Bom to collect weather data within a set of rules and guidelines Vishnu ! They have one job period !
                You keep excusing the inexcusable and your faith and gullibility means as far as Bom is concerned they can do no wrong .
                What Ken has done is merely check that each station is operating according to their own guidelines and rules that’s it .
                He clearly documents and proves that Bom is in breach of its own charter ,Bom is incapable of doing the job properly and accepts no criticism.

                40

              • #
                AndyG55

                “yes badly sited stations should not be used”

                But Vishy, without those badly affected URBAN stations and airports, there really ISN’T MUCH WARMING

                They HAVE to use those stations to CREATE the AGW meme. !!

                20

        • #
          Bill in Oz

          The defective stations dat has been used by BOm
          To adjust it’s ACORN data !
          Duhhhhh ?

          It’s all been contaminated by the crap
          And thus unfit for purpose.
          Sack the idiots !

          30

  • #
  • #
    Dennis

    Fixed, I hope

    20

  • #
    angech

    40 years of unchanging data trend
    Used to adjust temperature elsewhere?
    Do we have an average yearly temp for this site?
    Ie how hot is a hot tin roof?
    Should be quite high, well above average. Figures please if available would show up problem best.

    30

  • #
    pat

    Ken Stewart -

    am without any formal scientific education, so bear with me.

    I did go along with the idea that the satellite data might be more accurate. however, has anyone factored UHI into those results? or are they raw data without any consideration of UHI? if the latter, then I’m beginning to think that even the satellite data might be a tad lower, if increasing development/UHI is taken into account.

    hope this makes sense.

    30

    • #
      AndyG55

      urban area is actually a pretty small percentage of the global area, pat.

      maybe 1-2%?

      I would suspect that a lot of the issues with urban and airport surface stations become insignificant.

      20

      • #
        pat

        AndyG55 -

        thanks for the reply. I realise UHI might be miniscule in the satellite data, but was just wondering if it is taken into account at all.

        we’re talking such tiny temp differences anyway so, even a tiny adjustment, would make a tiny difference, and that would be meaningful to me! lol.

        20

    • #
      AndyG55

      must say, you do a pretty good job hunting down interesting tid-bits :-)

      30

    • #

      Pat
      Satellite data i.e. UAH will be more accurate than surface data as it indicates the temperature of the deep atmosphere, not just a thin layer in close contact with the earth which is prone to uneven heating due to man made influences ( and not just urban) and also uneven distribution of naturally varying land surfaces.
      Convection mixes the unevenly heated surface layer up through the atmosphere. No matter what UHI or other influences on the surface temperatures, no additional energy is added to the system, so UHI does not affect satellite data.
      Hope that makes sense.

      60

      • #
        pat

        Ken Stewart -

        thanks so much for that explanation. that clears up one of those niggling thoughts I’ve wondered about for some time.

        10

      • #
        Vishnu

        Ken ask a qualified remote sensing scientist how much UAH is adjusted. Different platforms over the years, orbital drift, sun angle, atmospheric conditions. Satellite data is one big adjustment. I’m not saying it’s not useful but be more sceptical. https://moyhu.blogspot.com/2018/01/satellite-temperatures-are-adjusted.html

        34

        • #
          • #
            Vishnu

            I think Roy does the best he can. Serious scientist. But it’s “a” view – “a” sample of the global temperature. RSS is different – why?
            I tend to see if there is a variety of information that points in the same direction. Land surface and ocean temps, satellite, species behaviour, species phenology, glaciers, polar ice.
            The Story isn’t perfect but I think more than enough to make a broad statement about warming.

            21

            • #
              Bill in Oz

              And polar bears ehhh ?
              :-)

              20

            • #
              AndyG55

              “RSS is different – why?”

              RSSv3.3 was pretty similar to UAH 5.6

              RSSv4 now uses “climate models” to “adjust” their series.

              How LUDICROUS is that !!!

              And they brought in a whole heap more highly dubious “adjusted” sea temperature data.

              Give them more things that can “adjust”.

              Yes we KNOW its been warming, Vishy..

              THANK GOODNESS for that series of strong solar cycles. !!

              The last thing we need is LIA temperatures again, and we are only just a small bump out of the coldest period in 10,000 years.

              Let’s all hope the real scientists looking at the sleepy Sun are wrong. !!

              30

            • #
              el gordo

              Roy is an honest broker, but it doesn’t mean UAH is gold standard. Spencer and Christy are working on a new paper, a lukewarm dream.

              ‘The radiative resistance to global temperature change is what limits the temperature change in response to radiative forcing from (say) increasing CO2, or the sun suddenly deciding to pump out a 1 percent more sunlight.

              ‘If the climate system sheds only a little extra energy with warming, it warms even more until radiative energy balance is restored. If it sheds a lot of energy, then very little warming is required to restore global energy balance. This is the climate sensitivity holy grail, and it will determine just how much warming results from increasing CO2 in the atmosphere.’

              20

        • #

          Remember I used the words “more accurate” and “indicates”. I take nothing as gospel. But I am more sceptical of surface data.

          40

          • #
            Bill in Oz

            I’ll take that a a qualified “Yes ” Ken !

            I have occasionally looked at Roy Spenser’s blog and . got simply confused. Probably because of all the fiddling needed as outlined above by Vishnu.

            10

        • #
          AndyG55

          “Satellite data is one big adjustment”

          UAH, adjustments for KNOWN scientific errors.

          Surface temps which are unknown adjustments for an agenda.

          30

          • #
            Bill in Oz

            Perhaps this could be the subject of a separate post here ?
            I confess to my share of ignorance on this area.
            And a deep conviction
            Not to be fooled by ‘bullsh#t baffles brains’ type nonsense.

            10

          • #
            Vishnu

            Says you without any information just circulating a sceptic meme.
            Now you may disagree with their homogenisation but you should at least read their reasoning and you can always do your own analysis and show us. No tricks – straight question.

            15

            • #
              Bill in Oz

              Homogenisation is just fiddling with computers by nerds.
              When exactly as the last time you went outside and looked at a thermometer ?
              Basic stuff !
              KISS !
              The rest is nerds trying out bullsh#it baffling brain stuff !

              40

              • #
                Vishnu

                This morning actually. Gee Bill – what after 30 years you move the station 200 m down the hill? Report back

                04

            • #
              robert rosicka

              Vishnu at what point does “homogenised ” data become garbage and not fit for purpose ? Some temps have been adjusted then readjusted and adjusted again until they are meaningless.

              21

              • #
                Vishnu

                It’s just “an” analysis – how about Ken Stewart does his own “best possible” and “hand-selected stations” analysis and reports back. But “uh oh” reason is closing in – let’s move the goal posts. Roll the UAH meme and lay smoke.

                13

              • #
                robert rosicka

                So that would be a no comment then or doesn’t it matter how the temp data is either collected or adjusted, they could save a lot of money by just modelling the temps nationwide and near enough is good enough .

                10

              • #

                Vishnu- who’s moving goalposts? And I did do an analysis years ago in the days of HQ. But I ow realise useless because of compromised sites.

                20

            • #
              AndyG55

              I have read their reason, they are based on vague statistical methods and dubious change point, that are often based on nothing real.

              Your really ought to read up on the methodology with an open mind and see how prone it is the human bias.

              But opening your mind is the very last thing you want to do, isn’t it Vishy.

              40

              • #
                Vishnu

                “nothing real” – your opinion?

                03

              • #
                AndyG55

                So you admit you haven’t even looked.

                Seen how they just “invent” reasons and the way basically anything that doesn’t have a warming trend magically gets one

                You really are a gullible and ignorant little fella, aren’t you Vishy.

                20

              • #
                AndyG55

                Just “believe” in BOM, Vishy, so gullible

                Don’t bother going and having a decent open-minded look for yourself.

                That would be too much for you to do, wouldn’t it

                FACT IS, that in most places that have avoided urban contamination, ..

                .. there just ISN’T MUCH WARMING AT ALL.

                (until BOM contaminates it with data from nearby urban affected sites.)

                10

  • #
    WXcycles

    The ancient prophecies spoke of one who would arise and bring Balance to the Farce.

    41

  • #
    Ian George

    Just checked all the sites in Qld for the minimum averages for September.
    Ninety sites were below average, five sites were average and 10 sites were above average.

    BUT, Qld’s mean minimum temperature, according to the BoM summary was -0.03C . What the…
    They appear to have done some very creative shading to help the temps up and then compared the anomalies to a different base average than the actual sites’ averages. Way to go, fellows.

    Check all the evidence here.
    http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/month/qld/summary.shtml#notes

    The only district which is above average is the Canungra (Defence) – but if you check the anomaly map there are many areas which are shaded as above. Clever!

    Again, the whole temp record has been adjusted so much it is no longer credible. The BoM needs to fully explain their methods or be independently audited.

    50

    • #
      PeterS

      The BoM needs to fully explain their methods or be independently audited.

      Nice dream. It will never happen for the same reasons why the ABC won’t be brought to account for being politically biased and making up false stories to support a mythical climate emergency. LNP governments tend to adopt a “hands off” laissez-faire attitude, which under normal circumstances is fine. In times of war, actual or figurative they ought to take strong action. We can only hope one day they will wake up and act accordingly, but I won’t hold my breadth.

      40

      • #
      • #
        el gordo

        The audit will eventually happen and naturally a Royal Commission should follow, in due course.

        Firstly we have to get balance at the ABC, which will come as shock to the brainwashed electorate, so it needs to be handled gingerly. Ita Buttrose can do nothing until the PM shows direction on the IPCC.

        ‘Prime Minister Scott Morrison has used an important foreign policy lecture to urge against a “new variant” of what he called “negative globalism”. ABC

        20

        • #
          Dennis

          The only reason an audit, that due diligence was not conducted by independent auditors in 2014 was that a small majority of the PM Abbott Cabinet voted against it when he proposed it to them.

          They replaced him in 2015 with one of the Liberals In Name Only MPs who are now out of Parliament.

          30

        • #
          Dennis

          The only reason an audit, that due diligence was not conducted by independent auditors in 2014 was that a small majority of the PM Abbott Cabinet voted against it when he proposed it to them.

          They replaced him in 2015 with one of the Liberals In Name Only MPs who are now out of Parliament.

          20

          • #
            Ian George

            I remember that incident well, Dennis.
            BTW, just finished collating the figures for Qld’s Sep min mean – BoM increased the raw data average by nearly 1.1C.
            Not a lot but ……

            30

        • #
          PeterS

          More words from Morrison. We need action not more words. It’s so easy to talk but takes a strong person to act.

          20

      • #
        el gordo

        These are the words of a statesman.

        ‘But Morrison said it did not serve the national interest “when international institutions demand conformity rather than independent cooperation on global issues”.

        “The world works best when the character and distinctiveness of independent nations is preserved within a framework of mutual respect,” Morrison said. “This includes respecting electoral mandates of their constituencies.” Guardian

        40

        • #
          PeterS

          Good words but we need action. So when are we going to free ourselves of the Paris Agreement?

          40

          • #
            Dennis

            The US did not sign and ratify the 2015 Paris Agreement, our Turnbull led Government did in April and November 2016.

            So why go tp all the trouble of overturning the commitment, just follow the lead of most other signatories and ignore it, there are no penalties attached?

            40

            • #
              PeterS

              True but Morrison isn’t doing that. In fact he continually boasts how we will meet the target “in a canter”, which is actually debatable. So he is telling untruths, doesn’t have a clue and/or just pursuing policies of appeasement just like Chamberlain did with Hitler. We need a Winston Churchill to take real action to fight the CAGW war against us that’s smothering our economy.

              40

    • #
      David Wojick

      Qld temp as a whole is based on area averaging, where different thermometers can have very different weights. For example, if your 90 were all in one grid fell they would first be averaged and then count a just one. If another cell had just one, it would count equally with the 90. If a cell has no reading then they may do interpolation or just not use it. In the global averaging systems they handle empty cells, of which there are many, in various ways.

      All this has nothing to do with adjustments, which is another problem. All told there are at least a dozen deep problems with the surface statistical systems. I think they are all junk as a result. The satellites are all we really have with any chance of being reasonably accurate, and they show very little warming.

      30

  • #
    pat

    BBC do a short video, leaving out the following.

    at 1min15sec a man says: “morons, put all these people in jeopardy”:

    VIDEO: 1min33sec: 3 Oct: MetroUK: Extinction Rebellion lose control of hose while spraying fake blood on Treasury
    by Zoe Drewett
    Extinction Rebellion used an out-of-service fire engine to spray the ‘blood’ before holding up a banner reading ‘Stop Funding Climate Death’.
    At one point the hose spraying the red liquid lost control, spraying some of the activists in the face as it snaked across the road in front of the government building in Westminster

    Ben, one of the activists involved, said: ‘The Treasury has been frustrating efforts by other government departments to take action against climate change because it cares only about economic growth. ‘It doesn’€t see that eternal economic growth leads to climate death. The red symbolises the people dying now in the global south and also the people who are going to start dying from climate change all around the world if we do nothing.’
    A spokesman for the group said: ‘It is time to imagine a future where humans no longer cause irreparable harm to themselves and their surroundings, but recognise and support the interconnectedness of life in its broadest sense.’…

    One of the protesters seen standing on top of the fire engine is retired Bristol university lecturer and grandfather of four Phil Kingston, 83, the group said. Mr Kingston has been arrested a number of times for demonstrating with the group. Today he is joined by retired GP Diana Warner, 60, musician Cathy Eastburn, 52, Forest school leader Árainn Hawker, 48, ex-Buddhist teacher Mark Ovland, 36, and electrician Liam Norton, 34.
    Mr Kingston said: ‘I fight with all my being for my four grandchildren in this situation of existential danger. And I am a Christian who cares for the Earth as God’s Creation; and for the world’s poorest peoples whose experience of injustice draws a special love from God…
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/03/nearly-2000-litres-fake-blood-sprayed-onto-treasury-extinction-rebellion-10853512/

    30

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Never knew the 11th Commandment was: Spray fake blood everywhere for Creation.

      Always thought it was: Don’t get caught.

      Poor old Phil – always wanted to be a fireman but could only become a university lecturer.

      10

  • #
    David Wojick

    Their belief that “eternal economic growth leads to climate death” makes these folks truly dangerous., especially to the world’s poor.

    20

    • #
      David Wojick

      Should have been 35.1g

      10

    • #
      David Wojick

      Should have been 35.1g

      10

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        David, this is a story worth investigating :

        https://climatechangedispatch.com/climate-change-civil-war-begins/

        “There is a little secret. Kept hidden from the public…that Greta Thunberg has a handler. Someone who is with her constantly and who controls what she does and says.
        The handler is an ultra-radical German Green environmentalist named Luisa-Marie Neubauer [pictured]. Her salary is paid by organizations funded by (of course) George Soros.

        “Evidently, these organizations had decided that the arrival of Thunberg in the new world must mark a more intense and more radical phase of the man-made-climate-change fraud.
        Thunberg’s carefully crafted speech, by the best speechwriters Luisa-Marie Neubauer’s groups could muster, basically condemned every adult who was listening.

        “And specifically condemned present political leaders in that they had let the planet down. And stolen her childhood in addition. Now that’s a fairly strong combination of accusations about world political leaders. Mass extinction and theft.

        “In addition to the condemnation, Greta’s speechwriters let world leaders know she and her child army of soon-to-be voters, would not be forgetting what the world leaders have done to our planet (and to her childhood).

        “FIGHTIN’ WORDS

        “For any politician, that speech is composed of fightin’ words. Young high school students are going to vote soon. And the entire child climate army will all soon reach the voting age since the world is actually not going to end.

        “Thus Greta’s speech is viewed by politicians as a serious threat, a political jihad against them.

        “The political leaders of the Climate Movement in the EU were not long to respond:
        Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron, for example, found themselves pivoting on their previous adoration of the child climate prophet.

        “Thus as it turns out, the strategy of Luisa-Marie Neubauer’s team, rewarding their political supporters with a slap in their face, was really not a good idea. It shifts ardent, frenzied supporters into ardent frenzied enemies.

        “In addition to Thunberg’s UN speech, written by the scriptwriters of Soros-funded organizations, which was a call to a younger generation to turn on present political leaders, Thunberg and 14 other child climate protest leaders filed a complaint at the UN against several countries for failing to address the non-existent climate emergency. This list of countries included France.

        “Macron, in the first shot of the new civil war between man-made climate change organizations, said: “These radical positions will, of course, antagonize our societies.”
        Macron’s Minister of Ecology went farther and said that the children’s climate crusade is now “mobilizing people with despair, with what is verging on hatred, setting people against one another.”

        “What will happen next? As the climate witches say, the devil eats his own children. A civil war is now underway between politicians wanting to cling to power and the destabilizing voting and protesting force of the children’s climate crusade.

        50

        • #
          pat

          OriginalSteve -

          just saw your post, which has the writer, Joel Glass, saying at the end -

          “As the climate witches say, the devil eats his own children”

          checkout my comment #37, which has come out of moderation. these are strange times indeed.

          10

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Excellent worded article, I reposted the link on another alt site too. Spread the word. Keep up the fight.

          10

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          Steve. Greta (not Garbo) is an actress, from a long line.

          The story you relate resonates with our federal election result in May.

          The ALP went to this election with hubris untrammelled. They believed they had the numbers. The pundits thought they had the numbers too, but I doubt they were working with the same science.

          The ALP’s “science” was a calculation that they have now reached the position where the number of people brainwashed by our education system was 50% + one. And they were much too nearly right for us to be comfortable.

          Their policy platform was 1. Set young people against old people, 2. Burgle savings, 3. Make energy so expensive that it puts the bosses out of business, 4. Declare themselves unable to keep the accounts, and 5. Tell people if they don’t like them, vote for somebody else. And nearly half the people still voted for them! If you hadn’t seen it you would never believe it.

          Greta and her minders are working to the same plan, the same set of calculations.

          Scott Morrison raised my hopes that all was not yet lost when he responded to the murder of a Melbourne restaurateur by an islamist madman without any reference to the Poltical Correctness Handbook and correctly identified the perpetrators of these acts. Just as a leader should. And he has continued to look like a leader.

          In all the furore since the election I haven’t noticed any comment about the part Clive Palmer played. He spent a lot of money on advertising, a lot of it good sense, even including policy that conservative voters only ever dream of hearing. But we had seen it all before from Clive, only to be sold out to Al Gore to thwart Tony Abbott’s landslide manadate. It’s hard to guess what Clive had in mind there. Did he really expect that people would forget what he did before? Or was he driven by Al Gore to do this, hoping to again score a voice in our parliament?

          Either way I am quite sure that Clive Palmer’s advertising worked in favour of the Liberal Party.

          00

    • #
      PeterS

      The developing and emerging economies are ignoring the climate alarmist nonsense. They are collectively constructing hundreds of new coal fired power stations with many more in the permitted and planning stages. The West are being forced to feel guilty building even just one new coal fired power stations. So who is being dangerous? Certainly not the developing and emerging economies so it must be our own government.

      30

  • #
    pat

    some think this young woman is a plant. could be, but…

    TWEET: Washington Examiner
    Woman at @AOC town hall in NY says her Green New Deal doesn’t go far enough and says that it is time for humans to “eat the babies,” because there is too much CO2 and too many people.
    VIDEO 31sec
    3 Oct 2019
    https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1179911969094144002

    longer video C-Span, with AOC response. woman’s t-shirt says “Save the Planet – Eat the Children”:

    TWEET: Ryan Saavedra, Daily Wire
    One of Ocasio-Cortez’s constituents loses her mind over climate change during AOC’s townhall, claims we only have a few months left: “We got to start eating babies! We don’t have enough time! … We have to get rid of the babies! … We need to eat the babies!”
    VIDEO: 1min52sec
    3 Oct 2019
    https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1179908480322289664

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      Bill in Oz

      Just a nutter Pat !
      If she tries then lock her up
      Simple.

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        Greg in NZ

        ‘Constituent Woman’ and Hillary could share a cell together – they have similar culinary tastes after all. It mightn’t ‘save the planet’ yet it would make it a far safer place for the rest of us, young and old alike.

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      Ted O'Brien.

      Ice? She’ll do it!

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    pat

    response from Robin Hood Energy (owned by Nottingham City Council) re story posted previously:

    1 Oct: RobinHoodEnergyUK: The truth about our £9.4 million Ofgem payment and company accounts
    As a UK energy supplier, we are obligated by Ofgem to source an increasing proportion of the electricity we supply from renewable sources.
    Renewable Obligation Certificates (ROCs) are certificates issued to operators of accredited renewable generating stations (solar and wind farms etc.) for the eligible renewable electricity they generate. ROCs are then used by suppliers to demonstrate that they have met their obligation…

    Since July 2018 we have only bought 100% renewable electricity, but as we do not physically own any electric generation capabilities, we pay into Ofgem’s buy-out fund…

    In August of this year, we wrote to Ofgem and met them in September to discuss making this year’s payment in instalments, as they had previously agreed with other suppliers last year.
    This was a prudent business decision to help us more effectively manage the high demand of the winter period, a potential general election as well as mitigating potential market risks around a No-Deal Brexit…

    However, Ofgem has now written to us today (1st October 2019) demanding payment in full by 31st October…READ ON
    https://robinhoodenergy.co.uk/news/9-4-million-ofgem-payment-and-accounts/

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    pat

    4 Oct: KXLF Butte: Some people are still digging out from record-setting September snow
    More than four feet of snow fell in some areas
    By Kaitlin Boysel
    Many people in the Birch Creek area near Heart Butte and Valier are still digging out from the record-setting snow storm.

    VIDEO: 54sec Still digging out from record-setting September snow

    Many communities came together to help those who were snowed in.
    One resident’s mother was snowed in for almost three days. Her daughter Nichole Aimsback said, “I didn’t expect it to be as bad as it was.”
    Dewey Skunkcap showed a photo of him in front of his house. “At my doorstep it was, I’m predicting it was probably three feet coming out of my door.”…

    Topping them all: the community of Babb just north of St. Mary, which recorded 52 inches of snow…

    VIDEO: 36sec September Snow in Parts of Montana

    https://www.kxlf.com/news/montana-and-regional-news/some-people-are-still-digging-out-from-record-setting-september-snow

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      pat

      3 Oct: TheWesternProducer: White headache
      PIC: Heavy, wet snow blankets a standing canola crop southeast of Delisle, Sask., earlier this week. Heavy snowfall was also reported in other parts of Saskatchewan, Alberta and Manitoba, putting harvest progress further behind.

      Early snow and lodging are the latest roadblocks facing prairie producers as they fight with a late harvest
      by Brian Cross, Saskatoon newsroom
      “Harvest will certainly be delayed further,” said Shannon Friesen, provincial crops specialist with Saskatchewan Agriculture.
      “Our biggest issue now is likely going to be lodging, simply because we had such a heavy, wet snow.”
      “Any crop that was standing is likely not standing anymore. Areas that got rain might have lucked out a bit, but in areas that got snow, there’s a really good chance that any standing crop has been knocked right over.”…

      According to Environment Canada, snowfall accumulations as of early Sept. 30 ranged from a few centimetres in some areas to 25 cm or more in Calgary and parts of southwestern Saskatchewan.
      Total snowfall in the Lethbridge area as of late Sept. 29 ranged from 45 to 55 cm…READ ON
      https://www.producer.com/2019/10/white-headache/

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    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    Back in my school days I’d wangle an extra day or two off sick by fudging my temperature on the clinical thermometer using the usual methods. Eventually, Mum sussed me out by applying a sort of parental scientific method. The lie was exposed and thereafter I was strictly monitored. I’m sure a lot of parents use scientific deduction to facilitate their kid’s maturity into useful adults. What went wrong with the BOM when it was growing up?

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      Greg in NZ

      It pointed at the adults while faking tears and scowled: How dare you!

      And like Bart Simpson, the BoM’s been a 10-year-old for about 30 years now.

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      robert rosicka

      Did Morrison catch a bit of mongrel when he shook hands with Trump ? Seems he has grown a pair and starting to put Australia ahead of UN mandates and the green blob .

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      David Wojick

      Certainly standing up to the UN and local global socialists. Good words for USA/Trump too and no mention of climate change except saying this is not a time of crisis.

      My one concern would be this: “And we are building the transport, energy and water infrastructure our economy needs to grow.” Wind and solar are not what is needed, quite the opposite.

      Overall, calm and strong.

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    theRealUniverse

    OOPS! Houston we have a problem
    (I missed this one, https://climatechangedispatch.com/solar-minimum-is-underway-and-its-a-deep-one/)
    “Neutron monitors at the Sodankyla Geophysical Observatory in Oulu, Finland, show that cosmic rays are percentage points away from a Space Age record.”

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    John

    When generating overall trend data, is this thermometer’s reading compared to other older thermometers? Or is it only compared to itself?

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      Lucinda is not used for trends, but Cairns is. Lucinda adjusts Cairns.

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        AndyG55

        Cairns Maximums has a trend of 0.11ºC/decade

        Cairns Minimums has a trend 0f 0.082ºC/decade

        Is anyone SCARED !!!

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        robert rosicka

        I have photos of the screen at Wanaaring in NSW which had stones placed on top of the box and the photos also show a badly sited screen .
        Not part of the Acorn set but as you’ve pointed out some of these screens are used to adjust screens that are part of the Acorn set .

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    Greg Cavanagh

    The Stevenson Screen temperature network is supposed to represent temperatures over land at 1.5m height.

    This one does not.

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      Graeme No.3

      Which Stevenson screen? There are now 2 types as well as the Portaloo type used at Portland.

      http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=6301

      And the Glaisher screen as originally used was subject to a very long term study in the original site in Adelaide and showed a slight increase (0.2℃) in average temperatures. DO NOT tell BoM or there will be Glaisher screens everywhere.

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        Greg Cavanagh

        Well, if they aren’t applying any standards, so bee it.

        They make the mockery of science, we just laugh at them.

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