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Battle of the religions: Vatican may list Green Sins against planet

The Catholic Church eyes off the competition — the Green Church of hippie witchdoctors. Thinks about discovering a new commandment — thou shalt not hurt silicon dioxide, (or something like that.)

Some catholic delegates call it an ecological conversion. I call it a marketing campaign.

Harming planet could be a sin, say Vatican delegates

by Tom Kington, The Australian

Delegates at the Pope’s synod on the creeping destruction of the Amazon have called for crimes against the environment to be ranked alongside traditional sins and have raised the idea of “ecological conversion” to a greener brand of Catholicism.

Can’t beat the pagans — can join them:

Conservative critics of the Pope, who loathe his liberal stances on homosexuality and divorce, claim that he has no business fighting climate change. They also allege that the synod’s working document gives tacit approval to pagan worship by praising the closeness of Amazon tribes to ­nature. Cardinal Gerhard Muller, from Germany, a former senior Vatican official who was ousted by the Pope in 2017 over his conservative views, has criticized the term “ecological conversion”, stating: “There is only conversion to the Lord.”

The Vatican wants to be a guide for lost souls, a Sunday social program and the Global EPA.

PS: Rock pic etc coming when I have unpacked, done red dust eradication and overcome camping-lag.

Image: wikimedia Misko3

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Rating: 9.1/10 (61 votes cast)
Battle of the religions: Vatican may list Green Sins against planet, 9.1 out of 10 based on 61 ratings

302 comments to Battle of the religions: Vatican may list Green Sins against planet

  • #
    2dogs

    It is interesting to contemplate theodicy in the context of the notion of sins against the planet.

    Why did an omnipotent and benevolent God make both us and a world that could suffer as a result of our sinful actions? Why have that supposed evil exist?

    120

    • #

      So when does the Catholic Church full Vegan? And by the Pope’s logic, plants will also be out of the question as well.

      110

      • #

        that’s ‘go full Vegan’

        50

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        Won’t happen..
        The pope is an Argentine..
        He doesn’t really want to hurt Argentina’s meat exports !

        120

        • #
          Dennis

          Wasn’t that where the ancient tribal word vegan came from: meaning incompetent hunter?

          180

          • #

            Incompetent? I’ve seen videos of Vegans catching frozen chickens. Mind you, it takes around a dozen Vegans to corner one. Frozen chickens can be slippery suckers.

            161

        • #
          Latus Dextro

          Jorge Bergoglio is a secular eco-Marxist globalist from a socialist country. He contests the notion and sanctity of nationhood and supports the chaos of open borders. In his mind his “country” no longer exists, just the destination of the NWO and One World Religion, that homogenised hell of socialist orchestrated chaos.

          150

        • #
          StephenP

          It used to be fish on Friday, fast for the 40 days of Lent and then eat drink an make merry, especially if you were a senior cleric.
          IIRC beaver could be eaten on Fridays, as it’s flat tail qualified it as a fish!

          60

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          The Pope is Argentinian.

          I expect that as a result he would have had friends who were killed or disappeared because of their political affiliations. He may even have lived in fear for his own life.

          So don’t be surprised if he doesn’t think the same way we do.

          Keep in mind, too, that his age suggests he won’t be there for a long time. Which I saw as a good thing with the last three popes. The last thing the Catholic Church needs at the present time is a Pope who might be there for thirty years.

          20

          • #

            Sadly, Ted, Bergoglio was on the other side and prospered in the junta years, rising to Provincial of the Order. Any Peronist or Marxist beliefs (if he had them) never got in the way of career. They might even have encouraged the naive to confide in him. I don’t mind playing rough with commos, but Bergoglio was a dobber and a junta insider. Shouldn’t be pope…and isn’t, in fact, pope.

            20

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      It’s deeper than that. I’ll skip most of the theology, but I want to bring to your attention this segment.

      Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake;… (more).

      God cursed the ground for our sake? How exactly does that work, the bible doesn’t say. I suspect it’s so God can have mercy on us.

      80

      • #
        Fred Streeter

        “You’re only arguing for the sake of arguing.” means:

        You’re only arguing because you like arguing.

        Hence: cursed is the ground for thy sake means:

        cursed is the ground because of you

        40

    • #
      PeterW

      We are not the only species that modifies it’s environment, sometimes detrimentally, as overpopulation events of many plant-eating species from rabbits to elephants, has shown.

      It is only in our moral standards of “good” and “evil” that humans are unique.

      The “problem” for those arguing about “God” is that in order to be “good”, we have to be capable of choosing evil. Morality is about CHOICES, not merely results.

      The inescapable implication is that either God creates moral humans, and lets the chips all where the may, or He creates robotic automatons that merely follow programming and have no choice in the mattter. You might think that beneficial in many cases, but most of us would regard that level of control and micro-management to be nothing less than totalitarian dictatorship.

      If you consider freedom a value, then that choice.

      40

    • #
      Anton

      Because we are not puppets. Having choice means that the wrong choice can be made.

      102

      • #
        PeterW

        Anton…. Exactly.

        ….. and most of those objecting to the idea of God permitting evil, would consider it evil were God to deny us choices.

        50

    • #
      mareeS

      The pope is insane. I’m a Catholic and I wish to be rid of him. He is a moron.

      110

  • #
    TdeF

    Why not a good line in Vatican issued Carbon Indulgences? Why pay for your sins in the next life when you can pay cash today?
    Otherwise the Green religion might get all the money and that’s what it’s all about. So much for the iconoclasts and the austere Reforming churches of Zwingli and Calvin railing against the cash and the indulgences. There are plenty of statues of Calvin across Europe. And richly decorated churches. So how many Extinction Rebellion people live on their mobile phones?

    While there are good people in every religion, religions are also full of irrational zealots and hypocrisy and opportunists and high priests, no more so than the Green religion. Oh, great ecology, we are truly sorry. Here, have $1.5Trillion a year to assuage our guilt.

    221

    • #
      Roger

      Better if the Vatican looked at Al Gore’s speaking tours and note what a high percentage have been cursed by unseasonably cold weather. They would find the same with Climate Conferences.

      What should they make of that? Perhaps thàt God is reminding of the Commandment “Thou shall have no other God …..” and showing us that the Green Religion of Climate Warriors is led by False Prophets? The better informed of us know that to be true from the factual science.

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      • #
        Newminster

        I’m looking forward to next year’s climate gabfest in Glasgow. The only people you find in Glasgow in December are Glaswegians! I doubt the “Gore Effect” is going to make much difference.

        30

    • #
      Patrick healy

      We have a lot of parasites here in the UK who use private jets to attend global warming events throughout the word and isolated islands for Lolita express “conferences”
      They all swear they pay “carbon(dioxide) offsets” to obtain forgiveness for their sins of emissions.
      As a life long catholic, I too pray for the installation of a Catholic Pope.

      50

  • #
    Edwina

    Sin is generally the state of being unreconciled to God and specically breaking 1 or all of the 10 commandments. Those are described in the OT. The NT shows God’s solution by having his son,Jesus, suffer the result of sin. That is death. Having done that Jesus was resurrected to eternal life. Just as we all shared sin anyone who acknowledges the resurrection of Jesus shares the eternal life he enjoys. That is what the Christian Church should concentrate on. Sadly it has drifted from this gospel.

    191

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      EDwina, I gave the old Catholic church
      The flick in the 1960′s.
      Full of Authoritarianism and made up sins !
      This new brand of Catholicism is just as shonky.
      Insidious greenism and made up sins !
      All BullSh#t.

      121

  • #
    Bulldust

    Speaking of sanctimonious types, here’s an Extinction Rebellion take down by Paul Joseph Watson. Enjoy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFkN5H4CCY0

    150

    • #
      RickWill

      That video covers a good deal of ground with some useful references.

      71

    • #
      Annie

      It was very good, except for one thing. I very much dislike the use of Christ’s name as a swear word. Can you imagine the consequences if he had used the name of a certain prophet in like manner?

      150

      • #
        John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia

        Paul could have used ‘Hare Krishna’, which would more in keeping with the new religion. On second thoughts, maybe ‘Che Guevara’.

        30

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    I am an atheist so I don’t pay any attention to what the Vatican says. Its words are either irrelevant or damaging to living on earth. Mostly the latter.

    171

    • #
      AndyG55

      ditto !

      You have to wonder what sort of mental illness causes all this.

      82

      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        I suspect it is extreme fear of being responsible for yourself, having to make your own choices, and hen having to live with the consequences. If you truly believe in God, he is supposed to take care of everything and you don’t have to do anything except follow his commandments.

        As an atheist, I must discover who and what I am and what it takes to have a full productive life all by myself. Then I have to make choices and be responsible for the consequences. All without having a big daddy in the sky to take care of me in the tight spots.

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        • #

          Thought that’s what being an ‘adult’ meant… being responsible for your own choices.

          160

          • #
            Lionell Griffith

            Yes, that is what being an adult means.

            Why to you think the very religious are actually mentally adults? As near as I can tell, they are mental children pretending to believe in things they they don’t know and begging what they pretend to exist to save them from from themselves.

            30

          • #
            PeterW

            As a point of fact, “responsibility” is not a thing, unless there is an objective standard.

            Your own feelings do not meet this criteria. Following them is nothing more than self-indulgence.

            The corollary is that as soon as you criticise another for not following a standard that you consider universally valid, then YOU are validating my point.

            The next question is how that standard arises. There is no persuasive argument from nature or science for such standards and, lacking that, all human-derived morality boils down to convenience and preference. Why should I obey your preference and not mine? Or vice-versa?

            20

        • #
          Annie

          I think we are meant to use our brains and not blindly follow everything we are told by the ‘leaders’ of the church…they can be be pretty errant in their desire for power and riches; a very common human failing.
          I am a Christian, of the Anglican variety, and certainly question a lot of what the hierarchy spout. And totally sick of that blithering banner that’s been polluting St Paul’s Cathedral in Melbourne for years; no questioning the difference between genuine refugees and all the economic chancers.

          120

        • #
          PeterW

          …… Except that in standard Christian doctrine, God does not “take care of everything”.

          If you “truly believe “ that, then you haven’t been paying attention.

          I don’t mind you disagreeing with us, but if you are going to critique others, you should at least be honest and informed about what they actually believe.

          50

        • #
          Fred Streeter

          I suspect it is extreme fear of being responsible for yourself, having to make your own choices, and then having to live with the consequences

          Really? Christians don’t make their own choices?
          Don’t live with the consequences?

          If you truly believe in God, he is supposed to take care of everything and you don’t have to do anything except follow his commandments.

          You have to follow his commandments, true.
          Where did you get the notion that this alone frees you from the vicissitudes of this life?
          It is one’s faith in God, in spite of earthly suffering, that ensures the reward of Heavenly bliss.

          BTW I have been an Atheist for as long as I can remember. Certainly as a 4 yo.

          Oh, Threats of Hell, and Hopes of Paradise!
          One thing is certain – this Life flies.
          One thing is certain – the rest is Lies.
          The Flower that once has blown, forever dies.

          50

          • #
            Lionell Griffith

            I said I think they FEAR making their own choices and being responsible for the consequences. Since god does not exist, they cannot avoid the facts of reality no matter how much they pretend otherwise. Reality is what religion fights from the get go.

            50

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            The view that God “will take care of everything” is a fairly recent expression of Christianity in the modern world.

            Personally I can’t relate to that.

            We are all individually responsible for our own actions that are carried out after reference to the God within us.

            We Must work with God to determine our actions and cannot hide behind God if we do the wrong thing.

            KK

            60

            • #
              Lionell Griffith

              The belief is only about 2000 years old since the formation of the first christian mystery cults. Two thousand years is very recent geologically speaking.

              21

              • #
                Lionell Griffith

                Philippians 4:6
                Be anxious for nothing, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

                1 Peter 5:7
                Cast all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you.

                40

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Lionell,
                Apparently the earlier “primitive” pagan concepts were taken on by Christianity and simplified for political expediency.

                Compared with earlier pagan concepts, Christianity is designed to take the individual responsibility for personal behaviour and place the reference point with the high church from the council of Nicea onwards. Just send money.

                In other words, the concept of God as changed at the Council Of Nicea puts the interpretation of God solely in the hands of the high church in Rome.

                Reminds me of the U.N. and EEU in action.

                Trust me, I’m important.

                KK

                60

              • #
                gee aye

                rather than recent, maybe you were implying that it was minor or insignificant?

                23

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                The concepts on which Christianity are based go back to at least 500 years B.C.

                22

              • #
                Lionell Griffith

                Apparently the earlier “primitive” pagan concepts were taken on by Christianity and simplified for political expediency.

                I don’t think it is only “apparent”, it is bloody obvious.

                50

              • #
                PeterW

                Good history requires sources, not assumptions.
                If you weren’t there and didn’t see it, then you don’t KNOW it. You must rely on your sources, and without them you are left with speculation.

                The obvious problem with claiming that Christianity (a) arose out of effectively noting, just 2000 years ago and (b) that it borrows from pagan traditions is that the best available evidence places Christianity as an outgrowth or maturing of the Jewish tradition, which goes back far longer.

                That is what the best available source states. In duplicate forms.
                You don’t have anything else.

                Few people unfamiliar with ancient history understand how rare contemporary source documents are. We have no documents describing Ceasar’s conquest of Gaul hat date earlier than four centuries after the event. We have no contemporary eyewitness accounts of the rebellion of the Iceni under Boudicca, let alone ANY account from the Briton’s viewpoint, but those historical narratives are seldom questioned.

                We have thousands of copies and parts of copies of the canonical Cristian scriptures. No collection of documents has beeen more extensively studied…… and not a single historical claim in it has been objectively falsified. If it were not for the religious implications, it would be regarded as the most remarkable historical document in existence.

                Point of all this? What evidence we HAVE is that there have long been contradictory beliefs, but there is no foundation for the claim that the Judaeo-Christian tradition “started” at an identifiable point in history.

                …….. Unless you subscribe to the Creation narrative.

                31

      • #
        Independent_George

        It’s a branch of leftism. The contagion that allows the weak to bolster their character and achieve a privilege unearned, by virtue signalling, and/or feelings of euphoria by pretending to save the planet. Probably sums it up.

        81

    • #
      John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia

      Neither do many RC’s whom I know. They think this Pope is a joke.

      80

      • #
        el gordo

        When the Christian west discover the scientific truth about climate change, it may well bring down the church.

        42

  • #
    James Poulos

    The Pope has little faith in the work of his own creator if he believes it was all meant for us to use and then didn’t build it to be fool proof.

    To paraphrase Genesis 1:28 – God gave man dominion over the earth and everything in it…

    251

    • #
      AndyG55

      Coal is part of creation.

      How coincidental is it that it is “ready” for use just as the human race starts to flourish.

      HE would be very upset if we did not use HIS gifts.

      153

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        A common theme throughout the bible is “God provides”. Everything we will ever need is already provided for.

        It’s Satan that wants to prevent us from using God’s provision, via some ruse to preserve it for future generations. It’s the usual lie.

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        • #

          @Greg “God provides … ” There are traditions that say the Adam ‘n Eve story is the other way round. They were supposed to eat the fruit and the snake/serpent/whatever was trying to stop them. Unsurprising that the same thing is happening today. There are rather more snakes and this time round they are demonising CO2.

          60

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            Talking snakes… talking asses… talking clouds… wheels within wheels.

            Even back then the planet was ‘screaming’ or ‘shouting’ or maybe it was voices in their heads.

            Bad water and a lack of food will do that. Ooh look – milk & honey!

            Plus 10% levy thank you… kah-ching!!!

            50

            • #
              Sambar

              That would be Manuka Honey and that really rich creamy milk that makes Hokey Pokey ice cream, Gods own country where you live Greg.
              Now compared to the pestilence ridden west island, where everything that can kill the unsuspecting lives, supported by drought, floods, fire and all manner of natural mayhem. What did we do wrong !

              30

              • #
                Greg in NZ

                What did ye do wrong?

                Verily, the very rocks sayeth – nay, they shout and tremble! –
                ye split from the one true Godzone and thusly did drifteth away,
                away from the grinding light of frozen mountain glaciers,
                away to the northwest where snakes and drought doth lurk.
                Repent! Return to the Ring of Fire and snow-buried Major Fault Lines,
                or forever suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous critics.

                Full cream milk / ice cream yes! (you can keep yer hokey-pokey camel droppings)
                and I haven’t been able to afford manuka™ honey since last century –
                you guys know where I can score some cheap imitation stuff? :-)

                30

        • #
          PeterW

          In context, the WAY that God provides is often through people.
          People doing hard work and making smart decisions.

          We don’t get to blame God when we are stupid and lazy.

          40

  • #

    One reason the anti-pope embraces the Blob is to propagate the belief in a “mother” nature, as opposed to a nature subject to man’s stewardship. Note how much sciency science is tied up with mushy tributes to the imaginary goddess, Gaia.

    There is no Mother Nature. All our fashionable green fetishes will be for nothing when unmotherly nature decides to spew us. A few millennia of Holocene warmth mean nothing in the long term. A Toba scale eruption will do for most of us, even if the next glaciation spares many. UNLESS…

    Unless we do actual science and get to know our planet and place a lot more than we do. Going to Mars is like saying you are going to escape the Melbourne winter by paddling a canoe to Antarctica in the company of a solar powered x-ray machine. If we are going to do something smart, we’d better start where we live. A child’s catechism might be a guide. An Argie bouncer posing as pope won’t.

    130

  • #
    Curious George

    They are almost as good as Greta Thunberg.

    51

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      It appears to be competition.
      Greta has outstripped everybody so far. Now they’re all playing catch-up.

      I suspect that Greta will get the Nobel Peace Prize and become the new Queen of Gaia. The Pope clearly sees the writing on the wall, this Greta character and the new Druidic religion of Environmentalism could overtake (probably already has) the Catholic Church in power and money.

      100

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        There is no climate emergency
        Letter to the UN General Secretary by 500 relevant and appropriately qualified scientists from around the World, a letter that succinctly offers the touchstone of reality over the climatism hyperbole of allegedly ‘settled politics’. (link: https://clintel.nl/brief-clintel-aan-vn-baas-guterres/)
        One lives in hope that the Main Stream Media will eventually find their way back to the Canons of Journalism, though I will not be placing my life at risk by holding my breath waiting for this to occur, even were it to eminently suit the decarbonising globalist narrative.

        140

        • #
          TdeF

          Precisely. In fact you can prove there is almost no man released CO2 in the air. It vanishes into the oceans and ice which cover 75% of the planet before it can accumulate and it needs to accumulate to be significant against the normal CO2 levels.

          Besides, warming or cooling, where exactly is there a problem? Sea level? Hundreds of millions of people live at sea level, half the population of Bangladesh live 0.5metres above sea level. Surely someone would have noticed? Increased CO2 has meant fewer storms, more food, a greener planet and the Pope thinks that is a bad thing?

          After all the anti contraception Catholic Church is blamed for the massive overpopulation of so much of the world and South America in particular while the caring left now think late term abortions are the best answer. What happened to balance and respect for human life?

          Almost none of these environmental movements are about the environment, and that’s a fact admitted by all the leaders, especially of the Extinction Rebellion. It’s about Money and power. With indoctrinated children as human shields.

          150

      • #
        RexAlan

        I thought she would get the peace prize as well. But apparently she hasn’t.

        Just in:- 2019 Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Ethiopian Prime Minister
        https://www.plenglish.com/index.php?o=rn&id=47844&SEO=2019-nobel-peace-prize-awarded-to-ethiopian-prime-minister

        70

        • #
          TdeF

          At least she completely believes what she is saying, unlike profiteer of Doom Al Gore. She will be an interesting study at 30 though, when the world is cooling rapidly.

          130

          • #
            Latus Dextro

            At least she completely believes what she is saying

            I disagree TdeF.
            I think she is the clueless cross between Damien of the Omen and the Children of the Corn. She read a spoon fed diatribe. She was a manipulated essentially vacant tool. I think you’ll find that the TDS nut jobs in Hollyweird will ensure she gets an Oscar at their next re-carpeted ceremony pantomime.

            Later, when asked a patsy drop-kick question from a field operative journavist, she was entirely vacant, bereft of any meaningful comment let alone the appearance of understanding the question — Greta Thunberg CRUMBLES Without Her Script

            51

            • #
              Serp

              Yes, she needs deprogramming and then to resume her education which will give her the confidence to face questioning.

              30

    • #
      • #
        Sambar

        Hmmm, a well thought out response, sound argument and clearly enunciated, certainly couldn’t have this granny interviewed by the main stream media

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      • #
        Annie

        Good for Grannie. I sent the link around the family. Grannie Annie.

        40

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        Thanks r r,
        I thought she did a magnificent job. Very clear, concise and a beautiful parody of that Greta speech. A classic example of public speaking, forceful and accurate. Just 8 minutes.
        In case you’re uncertain, I thought it was pretty good.
        Cheers
        Dave B

        50

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Greta has been outclassed:

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-11/nobel-peace-prize-ethiopian-pm-abiy-ahmed-wins-in-oslo/11593346

      and the Nobel mob has retained(?)/regained(?) some credibility. Maybe.
      Cheers
      Dave B

      60

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  • #
    Dirtman

    Bearing false witness is already well known to be a sin, so the Pope should clean up his own act,

    150

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      Galatians 1:6-7, “I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

      Galatians 2:4, “But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.”

      2 Thessalonians 2:3, “Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,”

      1 Timothy 4:1, “But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,”

      2 Timothy 3:1-5, “But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these,”

      2 Timothy 4:3-4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.”

      2 Peter 2:1-3, “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”

      2 Peter 3:3-4, “Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.”

      1 John 2:19, “They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.”

      Jude 3-4, “Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. 4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.”

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      • #
        Mark D.

        Brilliant summary Greg!

        50

      • #
        Fred Streeter

        At the risk of being thought a Mocker, coming with my Mocking: The verses are best read aloud in the voice of E.L. Wisty.

        Speaking of whom, Mr Wisty’s prescient description of cAGW:

        It’s a complete lie, of course, but you can’t afford to be too scrupulous if you’re going to dominate the world.

        30

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    The simple reality is the roman church has always been heavily pagan in what it believes. As such, elevating sins against the creation to be significant, effectively reinforces the roman church’s pagan stance of worshipping the creation rather than the Creator, God of the Bible.

    131

    • #
      el gordo

      Paganism is good.

      35

      • #
        Anton

        Aztecs Incas and Druids – human sacrifice.

        100

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        • #
          el gordo

          In the beginning, respect for nature was part of our survival mechanism, but ultimately it was the domestication of cereals and the accidental invention of beer, which had a profound impact on the hunter gatherers in the region.

          Intoxication allowed them to see outside themselves and in their wanderings some places became holy and they built monuments. It was the beginning of civilisation and out of this milieu paganism developed. More than one god makes life simpler and less disruptive than the singularity.

          23

          • #
            Annie

            Agree, except for your last sentence; that’s a pretty sweeping generalisation EG.

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              el gordo

              Yeah, anyway its academic because eventually the most favoured god rules, like Ra.

              The Egyptians also enjoyed a drop of beer.

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                Greg in NZ

                Forget the hops – let’s go tripping! Egotism or ergotism?

                https://cropwatch.unl.edu/2017/has-ergot-altered-events-world-history

                Symptoms include “delusions, prickling sensations on skin, convulsing seizures, hallucinations, and violent muscle spasms… an Assyrian tablet dating to 600 BC mentions ‘noxious pustules‘ on grain seeds” [Eek-Stinky Rebellion was around back then too? Who knew!].

                “Documented epidemics of ergotism occurred frequently in the Middle Ages (500-1500), now known to be caused by eating ergot-contaminated rye bread, resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of people” and a few medicine women who owned black cats.

                How could this madness occur! “The plant disease is favored by severely cold winters followed by a cool, wet growing season”. Uh-oh, welcome to 2020 and the next imminent “Great Fear”.

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            OriginalSteve

            Well i guess a god of someones own making certainly makes life easy.

            Biblically speaking, right from the off, humans were instructed by God to look after animals and the whole biosystem, so there is a common root.

            As youve said, paganism is God-derived animal husbandry, but choosing to not be answerable to God. Christanity however encompasses the whole responsibility and picture.

            A few other related but random thoughts:

            The eco-zealots seem to place animals above humanity, which is the reverse of the natural /Biblical order of things.

            As I ask evolutionists – how is it that man and apes coexist, if one is allegedly a derivation of the other?

            Likewise, have you seen a monkey design and launch an aircraft or spacecraft? Humans are set apart, as the Bible says. We may be mammals but thats it.

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              Michael262

              Original S
              Try sources other than Answers in Genesis.
              On evolution ( and climate science), you should talk to a scientist , who would explain to you that we didn’t come from apes, we share an earlier common ancestor and branched off. You may as well ask why trees aren’t evolving into insects.

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                AndyG55

                Try looking in your soul for answers, mickey

                It is empty, so you will find none.

                You have presented no science, EVER.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                “you should talk to a scientist”

                How about someone with degrees in Science (pure maths major), Civil Engineering,

                and a PhD in Civil Engineering, related to climate, and who has actually worked on climate model output data.

                Would you listen to them, little mickey ??

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                el gordo

                ‘ … an earlier common ancestor …’

                They gave up looking for the missing link and settled on nearest common ancestor.

                There were a number of prototypes out of Africa and they successfully adapted to new environments. Homo sapiens had a smaller brain than Neanderthals, yet seem to have accomplished a lot more.

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                Peter Fitzroy

                Do you think that evolution stops? As an example, the great white shark, has consistently benefited from evolution since before dinosaurs ruled, but it’s basic shape has not changed. So, logically , it is more evolved than any of us.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                “Do you think that evolution stops”

                Sometimes hits a cul-de-sac.. like you, PF.

                A three toed sloth is more evolved than you !!

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            Latus Dextro

            The God gene is well described, a collection of genes that influence behaviour, enabling the phenotypic expression of transcendence, transcendence above the miserable desperation of a short brutal existence, a transcendence that facilitated survival, one reason for example why cancer or dread disease sufferers who cling to religious beliefs do better than their peers who do not.

            Dr Freud’s good friend, the physician and neurologist Dr Carl Jung reported upon the universality and similarity of the spiritual dimension in the human psyche among disparate cultures. Nearly all started off worshipping the Sun. (Memories, Dreams, Reflections)

            It is fair comment to opine that one of the many reasons the UNFCCC, IPCC and UNEP are running aground these days is their denial of the existence of the very same Sun god our ancestors learned to venerate. /tongue in cheek

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              el gordo

              ‘Although sun worship has been used frequently as a term for “pagan” religion, it is, in fact, relatively rare. Though almost every culture uses solar motifs, only a relatively few cultures (Egyptian, Indo-European, and Meso-American) developed solar religions.

              ‘All of these groups had in common a well-developed urban civilization with a strong ideology of sacred kingship.’

              Brittanica

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            PeterW

            Actually, multiple God’s makes life confusing and arbitrary. Good, evil and natural law all become dependent on the whim of whatever deity is looking in your direction at the time.

            Look at the most prominent Pantheons of the past, and you find that the gods were no better, morally, than their followers. Why be “good” when your gods are no better.

            The main law then becomes, placate the powerful and don’t get caught.

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      TdeF

      That’s not true. Christian churches, all people of the book are all based on belief, faith and scripture. Some people of the Book dedicate their whole lives to studying the Bible, Koran, Talmud

      Yes elements of old pagan religions were absorbed like the summer solstice as Christmas day and while idols are banned, saints took their place. Rituals, icons, elaborate clothes and uniforms can be very formal but people love pomp and ceremony. This has all changed in the 20th century with universal education, suffrage, communication, antibiotics. Now we know exactly why people die and not just god’s will where before it was a total mystery, especially with infant mortality of 50% in the first year for most societies.

      The church was the teacher, the fortress, the bank, the hospital, the centre of life before people traveled. Many never left the valley in which they were born, or the cliff or the mountain top. From Baptism, Marriage and funeral, their lives were based around the Church. A real place.

      And until the reformation, the Catholic church was the alternative to the Roman Empire and organized on the same basis from Rome. It was never pagan or barbarian. Christian people strove to understand until sometimes it contradicted religion, as with Galileo, Copernicus and even Darwin. Most of our modern science, understanding, inventions have come from Christian European countries.
      .
      And when they found other sophisticated societies like Egypt, China, India they absorbed their discoveries like paper, silk and chilli and potatoes. Christianity was never pagan. It was the antithesis of pagan. Even if both groups have rituals and the remnants of the concept of sacrifice. One has reading, poetry, books and libraries, not oral tradition. Deep knowledge, not superstition.

      But people still hanker for the certainty of deep, blind faith, total belief. It is on this the carpetbaggers of Climate Change rely.

      Why Pope Francis is choosing to get his ideas from Karl Marx is beyond me. Maybe because of the rolling social disaster in South America.

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        Annie

        Christmas was based on the winter solstice on the northern hemisphere. After many years here in Australia I still find Christmas in summer pretty strange! You lose the symbolism of light in the darkness.

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        OriginalSteve

        In roman catholicism, transubstantiation is just withcraft rebooted, veneration ( worship ) of mary is just pagan goddess worship and the host changing into jesus is also witchcraft.

        I recall chatting to an alchemist one day, who considered the roman catholic mass such perfect withcraft, it couldnt be improved on. Not really the endorsement you want.

        Also, roman catholicism teaches salvation by the installment method eating the host at a mass regularly, however Biblical salvation by accepting Jesus as Saviour is a once only event for a Christian believer.

        Having lived amongst roman catholics for years, my observations have been confirmed over and over.

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          Latus Dextro

          Transubstantiation rests on religious belief, a belief that is held sincerely and deeply, and one that is also generally respected. As such, it is not the province of science and is quite rightly unfalsifiable. (nb: I do understand the doctrinal diktat regarding this. 12 years of Jesuit education got me off to a fair start).

          On the other hand, the Green Trojan horse of the belief in climatism, used to fuel the fear of an apocalypse, provides the propulsive justification for globalism is entirely falsifiable, is lies entirely within the province of science and reason.
          nd for these reasons it needs to be dispensed through the anal sphincter of history.

          New King James Version:
          “And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying,
          “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

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            Latus Dextro

            The button pressing was an independent act of the Holy Spirit @ 12.5%. In vino veritas.

            “On the other hand, the Green Trojan horse of the belief in climatism, used to fuel the fear of an apocalypse, provides the propulsive justification for globalism is entirely falsifiable, is lies entirely within the province of science and reason.
            nd for these reasons it needs to be dispensed through the anal sphincter of history.”

            Erratum.
            On the other hand, the Green Trojan horse of the belief in climatism, used to fuel the fear of an apocalypse, provides the propulsive justification for globalism and is entirely falsifiable. The thesis lies entirely within the province of science and reason and for these reasons needs to be dispensed through the anal sphincter of history.

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              el gordo

              LD what is your theological understanding of ‘speaking in tongues’?

              ‘Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.’

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            OriginalSteve

            Hi latus

            The problem with sacred cows…hamburgers and all that.

            Transubstantiation is effectively the practice of withcraft – its un-Biblical and is humans trying to conjur up a diety on command…..which is withcraft.

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        Kalm Keith

        There’s a feeling that Paganism is being portrayed as an earlier, less sophisticated precursor of Christianity.

        Recent study suggests that possibly Christianity is a condensed, politically structured adaptation of a more realistic ideology: Paganism.

        Pagan religions have always been sold as primitive, unsophisticated and second rate in comparison with Christianity.

        Recent comment suggests that possibly Christianity is a condensed, politicised version of Paganism which may have been the best grounded concept that people could have used in their approach to God.

        Even in the last 65 years I’ve experienced the change in expression of “Christianity” that shows that religion moves with the times, for better or worse.

        KK

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          PeterW

          The problem with your argument is two-fold.

          Firstly the claim that Christianity evolved out of paganism is based on speculation, not sources. The best sources are that evolved out of a Judaism, which has always sought to distinguish itself from paganism.

          One of the most obvious lessons from the OT narrative is that humans have a natural tendency to wander from the straight and narrow, but wandering towards paganism equals trouble.

          The second is that – regardless of what you may personally have observed – there is no one monolithic “Church”. Rather, there is an ongoing tradition still observed by a large proportion of the faith, that the individual has a responsibility to determine whether doctrine is correct. “Correct” being consistency with the revelation of scripture, not the words of some current “authority”.

          Hence the Refomation, and the ever-increasing number of denominations.

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  • #
    Another Ian

    Will they read things like this?

    “How I changed my mind… about global warming”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/11/how-i-changed-my-mind-about-global-warming/

    Or will reading things like this be deemed a mortal sin?

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    Latus Dextro

    “Ignorance has been one of the grand agents of Popery ever since her establishment; by it, the eyes of men have been so blinded that they can scarcely discern between good and evil, and follow implicitly any guide even until they fall into the ditch of perdition.” C.H. Spurgeon


    Be in no doubt.

    Jorge Bergoglio opened the 70th UN General Assembly in September 2015, which launched its 2030 neo-Marxist imbued ‘transformational agenda‘, a document with which most here will be generally if not particularly familiar. As a consequence of this signal of religious gravitas, his imprimatur was firmly stamped on UN driven neo-Marxist globalism, on the forcing of an insane undemocratic eco-evil, a borderless World of chaos, violence, de-industrialisation, de-population, despair, impoverishment, and inevitable ecological destruction. His endorsement of an incompetent UN totalitarian bureaucratic elite whom as we speak appear unable to manage a piff-up in a brewery, confirmed his devotion to the 2030 NWO and secular humanism. (I wonder whether the devoted silently wonder why billionaire St George Soros doesn’t stump up the required couple of hundred millions US$ to address the short fall and bankruptcy?)

    One World Religion is Bergoglio’s ambition. He has openly promoted a One World Religion or a New World Order on 12 occasions. In this short YouTube video (1.31 minutes) the nightmare is depicted in cloying and dulcet tone, indeed almost prayerfully, Jorge’s prayer intentions for January 2016
    An avowed eco-globalist his recent proclamation, “A global educational pact is needed to educate us in universal solidarity and a new humanism” makes it very clear that the Vatican intends to ensure that indoctrinating the young will become a focus for the NWO secular humanist eco-church from 2020.

    Forewarned is forearmed.

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    Salome

    We are called to be good stewards of the earth. Not to be a good steward is a sin of omission–even worse to be an active despoiler of the earth. BUT, what do those things mean? First and foremost, stewardship of the earth does not mean leaving it free of any sign of human habitation. Making it a good place for people is good stewardship–clean water, good food production, the ability to be protected against the elements, and the maintenance of places of natural beauty to refresh the soul. Problem is, that’s not the current ‘green’ agenda. And probably not the pope’s.

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      OriginalSteve

      Stewards, yes. Radical depolulation agenda, no. God told us to be fruitful, multiply and subdue the earth.
      ( Genesis 1:28)

      This does allow the roman church to easily slide into its role it appeared to enjoy previously, of being the driver of what will likely becone a new Green Inquisition.

      The roman church as a curent active body called:

      “The Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith”, which is the office of The Inquisitor, just renamed. This appears to mean that its still active.

      The UN needs a powerful religious thug it can use to scare people into compliance….and to use as a core for its coming united religions, the hideous monster religion likely to be created post WW3, that will be the planned amalgamation of all religions, and no faith will be tolerated outside of it…..or else….

      Like all UN things, its un-Godly and a strait jacket for the planet…..for our own good of course.

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      Latus Dextro

      Well, given that the great NWO evil and one of several UNEP interventionist justifications (Trojan horse) is “climate change,” where the definition by the UNFCCC and other associated bodies attributes cause to any/all direct and indirect anthropogenic influences on atmospheric composition and land usage, we’re all irretrievably screwed. Other “justifications” (sins to be prevented / controlled for your own good include – safe-ism, health-ism, free-speech, assembly, right to hear) are all being massaged toward this purpose by the UN globlists as we speak. Fortunately, the chorus of growing rejection mounts.

      Ipso facto , the fight that the NWO and Jorge Bergoglio bring opens with them stating that humanity is possessed by evil or perhaps is intrinsically evil, undeserving to contaminate the face of Gaia.
      Nothing new here. Original sin has been present since Adam was persuaded by the pulchritudinous attributes of Eve to drift from the straight and narrow and eat the plundered apple from the tree.

      The Jesuit educated Leftist French philosopher Pascal Bruckner (THE FANATICISM OF THE APOCALYPSE) writes:
      “Consider . . . the famous carbon footprint that we all leave behind us,” he writes in his introduction. “What is it, after all, if not the gaseous equivalent of original sin, of the stain that we inflict on our Mother Gaia by the simple fact of being present and breathing?”

      As the Jesuit-educated philosopher sees it, extreme climate change alarmism, with its warning bells chiming “The end of the world is nigh, repent ye”, represents a worrying new doctrine of ideological purity that even has totalitarian overtones.

      Worst of all, Bruckner argues, these “political commissars of carbon” have “betrayed the best of causes” and turned the discourse of ecological terror into the “dominant ideology of Western society”.

      Dividing his argument into three sections, provocatively titled “The Seduction of Disaster”; “The Anti-progress Progressives”; and “The Great Ascetic Regression”, Bruckner scorns the peddlers of the “propaganda of fear”.

      The UN will unravel, as the League of Nations did. The hope it that it will not be because of a conflagration, but because of of the rebirth of the sanctity of the nation state , with its explicit securities of borders, identity, culture, customs and tradition.

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        Greg in NZ

        pulchritudinous:

        who knew such an ugly word could be so beautiful.

        As for transubstantiation… had a brief part-time career as an altar-boy (Sundays only) when I was about 11 or 12: when the priest tried to transubstantiate himself upon me I told him to ####-off and I walked out of that house of sin and that was that. And what was their fetish with blood and pain and thorns and spears and anguish and guilt and Xs all about…

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    robert rosicka

    I don’t understand what’s religion got to do with climate science ? Oh wait yeah that’s right !

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      OriginalSteve

      Its all about power. If you can merge religion and climate shenannigans yogether, you can beat religious people around the head with a political agenda but dressed up as religion….its quite a nasty thing to do as its abuse of peoples trust, especially those who are well meaning.

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    John Shade

    Green sins? Quite a few can be found here: http://www.breadandbutterscience.com/LEM.htm

    and here: http://ecosense.me/2012/12/30/key-environmental-issues-4/

    But I’d put the deliberate terrorism involved in frightening children about their future based on junk science and ill-informed conjectures/assertions at the the top of my list of their evils.

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      David Maddison

      Great list. It also includes the DDT scare which lead to its prohibition and the consequent death of about 50 million people.

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    Ken Davis

    Well I think it is a sin to harm the planet – but you had better be right about what harm actually is. What if the sum of feedbacks are negative and all these emissions are actually preventing catastrophic overheating? What if the IPCC are right, and the feedbacks are positive, we were headed for an Ice Age and our emissions bought us 100 years to develop the technology to better survive the next almost certain Ice Age? A thousand What If’s which cannot be answered until the models actually work backwards and forwards (good luck with that).

    Also a bit hard to define heating within the range that God does as a sin. Are the Catholics gonna call her in, hold her to account and excommunicate her for crimes against the planet? God help us all!

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      Peter Fitzroy

      Lovely bit of circular logic, and involving no facts at all

      /sophism of the day

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        el gordo

        Its a reasonable argument, the Younger Dryas was possibly an act of the gods, and at the end of the Holocene divine providence is supplying the CO2 fertiliser to save this experiment, from gracile apes to spacemen.

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Only if you like fairy stories

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            AndyG55

            /PF living in a FANTASY land !

            No evidence, just believes in fairy stories.

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            el gordo

            Ken makes the observation that there are many questions ‘which cannot be answered until the models actually work backwards and forwards …’

            I fully endorse those sentiments.

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              Peter Fitzroy

              Play with it until (the model) breaks. Why run it backward, it is not a car.

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                Latus Dextro

                Why run it backward, it is not a car.

                Indeed, it is not a car. Were it so, it would have been consigned to the scrap heap directly after production missing out dealers and customers alike.
                Hindcasting is one useful way to contribute to the validation of a GC model. That essentially none of the constellation of UN models (other than the politically incorrect Russian model) can hindcast or forecast with any degree of veracity (concurrency with empirical data) points to an absence of utility.
                That they are used with gay abandon by the UN IPCC and politicians within the Green Trojan horse of climatism, people and policies that have yet to come-out of their putrid closet, is far from useful for the future of deplorables who seek liberty and prosperity.

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                AndyG55

                Climate models were broken AGES ago.

                Basically they started that way.

                Foundation of quicksand.

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                el gordo

                ‘Why run it backward?’

                That is a good question, a few of us hold heretical views and don’t believe CO2 causes global warming. The cyclic nature of climate change over eons of time suggests that its solar forcing and only with hindcasts can we validate our hypothesis.

                It should be possible to look ahead a couple of decades, using the same computers and taking out the CO2 component, to get a predictable outcome.

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                Peter Fitzroy

                El gordo, they (the models), do as you suggest

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              • #
                AndyG55

                And they FAIL magnificently !!

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                el gordo

                “[Models] are full of fudge factors that are fitted to the existing climate, so the models more or less agree with the observed data. But there is no reason to believe that the same fudge factors would give the right behaviour in a world with different chemistry, for example in a world with increased CO2 in the atmosphere.” (Freeman Dyson)

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                AndyG55

                “so the models more or less agree with the observed data.”

                No, they more or less agree with ADJUSTED data.

                That is one of their BIG failings.

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        AndyG55

        “and involving no facts at all”

        We have notice that is your modus operandi !

        /Evidence free PF

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    PeterW

    Without modern agriculture, billions will starve.

    There is nothing in current technology, or on the technological horizon, that will permit us to feed the world if we abandon fossil fuels and cheap, abundant energy.

    The Pope needs to consider the injunction, “Feed my sheep”. Leaving the poor to starve is the work of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot…… not of Christ.

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    OldOzzie

    Meanwhile in the Real World away from the Vatican

    From the Independent’s most cited article: Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past by Charles Onians:

    However, the warming is so far manifesting itself more in winters which are less cold than in much hotter summers. According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia ,within a few years winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event”.

    “Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,” he said.

    Like the Little Boy Who Cried Wolf – Snow is still with us – perhaps the Vatican can explain how this “Miracle” has happened?

    Hours After Keystone Announces A Record-Setting Opening, A-Basin Jumps the Line

    By Taylor Allen
    October 11, 2019

    Two hours after Keystone Resort announced it’ll be the “first ski resort in North America to open” for the 2019-20 season Saturday, Arapahoe Basin said it would open Friday for two hours.

    Keystone will open Sat, Oct 12 for our earliest opening in 20+ years! We’re positioned to be the first ski resort in North America to open for the 19-20 season. Lifts will start turning as early as possible, so stay tuned for details. We’ll see you tomorrow for #KeystoneKickoff

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    GTB

    The ultimate aim is for a one world religion where everyone is forced to keep Sunday, to save the planet of course, which is contrary to the Ten Commandments. ( The Sabbath is Saturday not Sunday) This will be the mark of the beast.!

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    Dennis

    Church of Climate Change has decided movement attracts followers and they have rotating crosses.

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      OriginalSteve

      Nature abhors a vacuum…as traditional religion is trashed by gender warfare and 18C laws ( by design ), the youngsters are being drawn into the green religion …..

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    Anton

    I am a physicist who accepts that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and that human activity has increased its atmospheric concentration by 50% since the Industrial Revolution began, but I am deeply sceptical of the magnitude of CO2-induced warming asserted by the IPCC. I am also an evangelical Christian. I would like to point out that the Christian half of the Bible, the New Testament, contains nothing whatsoever about politics and how to run a nation. Its central claim is that one can be remade better by God in ways that one cannot do for oneself. Regardless of whether or not you believe it or not, that is not a process which can be enacted by law or social pressure. The church should not be political and the true church isn’t.

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      David Maddison

      What is your source that human activity has increased CO2 by 50% or in fact that it is a “greenhouse” gas that can significantly alter temperature?

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        TdeF

        No one has any proof of this. It has increased. All explanations are based on coincidence being causality. As I always explain, you can radio carbon date any carbon, including specifically CO2 and it is all new stuff. Maybe 2.1% old fossil fuel CO2.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        Conversely where is yours?

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          TdeF

          Now this is the problem. You have to prove the 50% increase in CO2 produces (substantial) warming. That is the fundamental proposition behind man made CO2 induced Global Warming. If it isn’t proven, the whole thing is rubbish.

          Also you have to prove the increase is man made, which isn’t true.

          Also you have to prove that the increase of 50% substantially increases the effect. Unlike clouds, CO2 is constant. The effect is permanent. You have to prove an extra 50% or even 100% has any further increase in the effect. These things are not proportional. One blind works. Two blinds make little difference.

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        • #

          This planet has an open atmosphere, the greenhouse effect is a myth:
          https://principia-scientific.org/?s=greenhouse+gas

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        Anton

        Pre-Industrial Revolution CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, as preserved in bubbles in ice: 280 parts per million, on a molecular basis. It’s presently about 410 ppm. Roughly a 50% increase.

        CO2 is a greenhouse gas because one of its resonance (ie absoprption) bands is located, in the electromagnetic spectrum, around a wavelength where the Earth radiates a good deal of the energy that it does emit, based its temperature and the black-body radiation curve.

        Arrhenius was first to do the calculation of how much CO2 heated up a dry planet by how many degrees, about 100 years ago.

        But the Earth is a wet planet, making the calculation so much more difficult (for various reasons) that parameters of the models have to be estimated from the data. But the data are in contention because of sharp practices like homogenisation. Even then there are large error bars. And that is assuming all significant physical mechanisms are included in the models, which is far from obvious. At this point the politics gets upstream of the science and the IPCC presents the worst-case scenario as fact.

        You seemed to want to give me a work-out. Fair enough. That’s my answer.

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      AndyG55

      And where is your empirical evidence of CO2 warming the atmosphere?

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        Anton

        Please see my reply to David Maddison. Of course CO2 is not the only determinant of the amount of warming of the earth due to the atmosphere.

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          AndyG55

          I see no empirical evidence in your reply, just conjecture.

          If there was any energy being trapped there would be a divergence between CERES data and the atmospheric temperature..

          There isn’t

          That means that any weak energy intercepted by CO2 is being translated to other frequencies through conduction (as per Will Happer) and convection.

          The whole transfer of energy in the atmosphere is controlled by density/pressure gradients.

          What theoretical and very slight warming CO2 might possibly have would be almost immediately counteracted by the natural flow of energy in the atmosphere.

          The heat from bush fires etc is magnitudes more than anything CO2 could possibly do, yet it is dissipated with ease.

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            Anton

            It is an undergrad physics exercise to work out the mean temperature of the Earth given its surface area, the solid angle it subtends viewed from the sun, and the surface temperature and radius of the sun and the fact that the sun’s outer layers are optically thick. The calculation proceeds by radiation balance.

            Now imagine a differentially permeable shell a little above the earth and do the 3-way equilibrium calculation.

            I suppose my argument is conjecture if you wish to categorise Stefan’s law as such.

            To be clear, I agree with almost everything the blog owner has said about the matter of global warming. Do you?

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      AndyG55

      A physicist should know that CO2 is a “radiative gas”, and that “greenhouse gas” is a total mis-nomer, not based on any actual science.

      “Greenhouse” implies it blocks convection, and it doesn’t.

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        Anton

        Yes of course it is a misnomer for the physical reason that you (correctly) state, but it is an accepted usage. If you want to see me go into it in slightly greater depth, please read my response above to David Maddison.

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        Eddie

        Blocks convection? Wouldn’t that be greenhouse glass?

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      el gordo

      ‘I am deeply sceptical of the magnitude of CO2-induced warming asserted by the IPCC. I am also an evangelical Christian.’

      Do you believe the Messiah will return soon?

      Are you a lukewarm physicist?

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        Anton

        If you retract the ‘lukewarm’ insult then I’ll give you a constructive theological reply to your first question.

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      Michael262

      Anton
      You can’t ignore the OT, its part of the Bible.
      You have to take it as a package deal from the head office.
      That’s a lot of book burning to do

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        AndyG55

        Yawn !

        Yet another boring evidence-free, content-free post from poor little mickey.

        CO2 warming is what its all about LM, and you have no evidence.

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        PeterW

        @Michael262.

        In 1944 my Father, Grandfather and assorted uncles were doing their best to kill Germans, Italians and Japanese.
        I don’t.
        There was a war on. Now there isn’t.
        It is called “context”.

        Part of the context of the Old-Testament/New-Testament split, is that trying to run a theocratic nation by making your religion the basis of your laws, doesn’t work very well. It was what the Israelites wanted, and what they got.

        There is nothing about history that says we are obliged to repeat past errors.

        That is why we have a NEW Testament.

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        Anton

        I fully agree that you can’t ignore the Old Testament. I grant it equal status with the New, but context matters. In the OT God was in the business of running a nation, ancient Israel. Nations involve laws and wars. This was an opt-out system: if you wanted nothing to do with it then you moved across the borders of ancient Israel to live elsewhere. In the New Testament, in contrast, the same God is now in the business of running a volunteer group, which is referred to as the church. It is portrayed as an opt-in group of people who live within their nations as a minority and often suffer persecution for their witness. For 300 years that is exactly what it was. The Christian claim (as I said above) is that one can be remade better by God in ways that one cannot do for oneself. That is, obviously, not a process which can be enacted by law or by social pressure; and the NT assures Christians that they are not under the laws of ancient Israel. Then, in the 4th century, Christianity was declared the religion of State of the Roman empire. At that point it became as corrupt as most nationalised enterprises and started to behave like an OT outfit.

        But you can’t stop God. John Wycliffe, an Oxford scholar, founded a dissenting movement that grew popular in 15th century England, the Lollards. Lollards attended Catholic services but avoided the most unscriptural practices and met in secret for prayer and Bible study; Wycliffe oversaw an English Bible translation. His bones were dug up by the Catholic authorities and burnt. Around the Alps, the Waldenses were a similar movement. The Catholic Inquisition worked to expose these movements, often torturing people for confessions. In scripture the church is contrasted with the world, meaning the prevailing culture. Of the Lollards and Catholicism, which was which according to the NT’s own criteria?

        I take great care not to be in any of the institutional, hierarchical churches.

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      Kalm Keith

      Anton,

      You are a physicist??????

      Pure physics.

      No capacity for process analysis when physics confronts complex interactive systems.

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        Latus Dextro

        I agree. He’s been here before but that was a troll like comment. One honestly expects more methodological circumspection from a professed physicist.

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        Anton

        I wrote that I am a physicist who accepts that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and that human activity has increased its atmospheric concentration by 50% since the Industrial Revolution began, but I am deeply sceptical of the magnitude of CO2-induced warming asserted by the IPCC. Your charming response was that I had “No capacity for process analysis when physics confronts complex interactive systems.” Would you care to state the basis on which you made that statement?

        00

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          “who accepts that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and that human activity has increased its atmospheric concentration by 50% since the Industrial Revolution began”

          A real scientist would know that this was rubbish.

          KK

          10

        • #
          Anton

          Now you had better define a real scientist. Do you deny that CO2 is a greenhouse gas in what has come to be the standard use of that term? Or do you deny that human activity has increased its concentration in the atmosphere from 280ppm before the Industrial Revolution to about 410ppm today, an increase of roughly 50%?

          00

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Few people except barbarians believe in wanton destruction but the environment is not being destroyed. In fact, the tiny amount of anthropogenic CO2 being produced helps preserve life as it is at a dangerously low level, at about 150ppm plant life is extinguished. Obviously artificially enhanced CO2 is not natural (as small a contribution as it is) but it is beneficial. Most Greens would prefer all humans to die.

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      Dennis

      As the very intelligent conservative lawyer and former MP Bronwyn Bishop commented on WIN SKY last night, the Marxists want to control people, make them poor but themselves become wealthy and lead privileged lives at the expense of the people.

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      Annie

      A lot of the ‘environmental solutions’ proposed by the greens do lead to environmental destruction, hence they are the barbarians.

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  • #
    Asp

    Another desperate attempt to drum up falling membership.

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    Serge Wright

    If you believe in a divine power, then humans must have been put on the earth for a reason which includes releasing the stored carbon to enable future life or protect gainst loss of life from the next ice age. If you look at the evolution of nature in this context, the release of stored carbon is a key feature of microbes and insects such as termites, which evolved to break down lignite and avoid a planetary wipeout. Ironically, termites release 10x as much CO2 as all humans combined and yet despite this evolution of species to release carbon, the total CO2 almost dipped to a life threating level during the last ice age and is still at historically low levels. Only humans have the ingenuity to be able to extract the massive amounts of stored carbon buried deep below the earth’s surface and release it back into the biosphere for life creation. The fact that humans exist in this low carbon period of earth’s 4.5 billion year history cannot be by chance, because nothing in nature can exist by chance. We were sent here to power up the V8s and burn baby burn :)

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    Peter Fitzroy

    in Genesis 1:26 KJV
    And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. – not terribly strong on plants though

    Later
    “The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you are but aliens and my tenants.” (Leviticus 25:23)
    also
    While humanity is God’s appointed steward of creation, creation belongs to God. The earth is the Lord’s. (Psalm 24:1)

    So a good christian either has the choice of subduing the earth and enslaving all the animals.
    or
    Being a steward and preserving God’s creation.

    Bit like the views put forward on this blog really

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      Yonniestone

      Cherry picks science and now cherry picking the Bible, misquote and deride the text of the K@$an….go on I dare you!

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        Peter Fitzroy

        What an asinine comment, I gave you the references.

        dare answered:
        “…And do not desire corruption in the land. Indeed, God does not like corruptors. ” Qur’an 28:77
        and
        “…And do not commit abuse on the earth, spreading corruption.” Qur’an, 2:60

        Now your turn, show me where it says pollute in any holy book

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          AndyG55

          /PF = irrelevant and meaningless as always

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          AndyG55

          CO2 is NOT pollution

          Wind and solar produce FAR MORE real pollution that burning coal does.

          Absolutely PUTRID and TOXIC pollution.

          Everything from coal can be used.

          Its all around you as you type. !!

          You RELY on it for your very existence.

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      tom0mason

      Peter Fitzroy,

      That is not a very Christian reading of the bible.
      Ho-hum perhaps you are tutored in Jewish biblical reading which is very proscriptive, very against what New Testament, the Christian Bible.

      A large number of people who might call themselves Biblical Christians, sometimes quote from the Israelite law of the Old Testament (the Law of Moses) saying that this is “God’s law”, presumably expecting others to accept that the six hundred and thirteen pre-Christ Israelite laws and regulations are applicable to the present day society we find ourselves in.
      Sometimes a person may quote from the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Old Testament), perhaps from Deuteronomy or Leviticus saying: “God says you must do this!” or “God says you must not do that!” For the Christian these are not laws.
      ¯
      However for many other Christians the Bible shows that Mosaic Law ended with the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. Followers of Christ are not under the Law of Moses: “He did away with the law of the commandments in regulations” (Eph.2:15), and to this can also be added the fact that Gentiles do not have to follow the Law of Moses: “I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?” (Gal.2:14). It is manifestly bizarre that people calling themselves Biblical Christians make a point of preaching the absolute opposite of strong and clear Biblical statements.

      Effectively with the coming of God’s son on earth in the form of Yeshua of Nazareth, later to be know as Jesus, all of the old testament are reinterpreted through Jesus’s words and actions.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        Tom – I’m not sure what you mean by “That is not a very Christian reading of the bible” I’m guessing that you need educating in the ‘correct’ interpretation. All that is beside the point. I was pointing out that you can read anything you like into the words in that book, and lets not forget, that I’m referencing the King James version, and not any of the original sources (such as they are)

        However, the vibe would be “do no harm” and I contend that our culture is doing the opposite.

        In the end it becomes an ethical argument. And the ethics are on my side.

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        • #
          tom0mason

          Peter Fitzroy,
          Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain within them long lists of banned foods and restriction on what can be eaten and drunk, how people can dress, how and when they pray, etc. Books of restriction and interpretation of God’s intent.

          “Effectively with the coming of God’s son on earth in the form of Yeshua of Nazareth, later to be know as Jesus, all of the old testament are reinterpreted through Jesus’s words and actions.”
          With Jesus’s coming on earth as the new Word and the Son of God he created a new beginning a new start and a new way. And that is what the New Testament is about, read it and understand.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        Oh, and when I said you – I really meant someone unlearned like me

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        Michael262

        Tomo
        The OT still stands as part of the Bible.
        So you have to accept all the inconvenient things like slave ownership, genocide, stoning of adulters, etc

        26

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Like the fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, back radiation is a thing, we are deliberately warming the planet.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            PF = No evidence, just mindless “belief. !!

            Warming by atmospheric CO2 has never been measured or observed

            AGW is a religion, a CULT.

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            Lance

            Those aren’t facts, peter. They are claims. Does logic elude you?

            Tell us all. Exactly how will your vision power the World? Exactly. No fantasies. No navel gazing.

            Bet you can’t do that.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                Posting the same MODELLED CRAP won’t help you , PF

                All is does is reinforce your IGNORANCE of science.

                Last one contains no science whatsoever.

                FACT is that wind and solar are HIGHLY POLLUTING in manufacture

                They are totally UNRELIABLE

                and can NEVER power the grid without 100% back-up by dispatchable electricity

                Wind and solar are TOYS, nothing more.

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                el gordo

                Fitz you’ll never convert anyone with your present approach, that first link was a paper from 1998, the hiatus had begun.

                By comparison, wearing my lukewarm coat against the unseasonal chill, the heat went into the ocean.

                https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-10/ioap-hgw101019.php

                Its contemporary and at a dinner party might be useful.

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                Peter Fitzroy

                El gordo – I’m including the older papers as they have not yet been superseded. As to your paper, yes it does raise an interesting speculation about where all the heat is going/gone.
                As to your assertion that a hiatus began in 1988 – that was an outlier in terms of climate (as an exceptionally hot year) and should be treated as such. You would never say 1999 sould be your starting point, nor 1997, as they would not show the claimed hiatus.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                PF = Modelled CRAP.

                Models are NEVER evidence

                No warming from 1980-1997

                No warming from 2001-2015

                No warming in Australia for 20 years

                ONLY El Nino warming.

                No evidence of CO2 warming ANYWHERE.

                /PF has no science.

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                AndyG55

                In the middle of 2015, if you did a back-calculation to where the trend became positive, it was in the middle of the 1998 El Nino

                That 1998 El Nino was a single step up in long period of NO WARMING from 1980-2015

                There was NO atmospheric warming in all that period apart from that El Nino.

                CO2, no matter where from, did NOT contribute to that El Nino.

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                el gordo

                ‘As to your assertion that a hiatus began in 1988 …’

                I said 1998, no need to apologise.

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                tom0mason

                And Peter Fitzroy ( October 12, 2019 at 1:50 pm) given the age of your links this quote stands as to the irrelevance of all those mad modeled outcomes …

                As one of the top climate scientists in the world, Kevin Trenberth said in journal Nature (“Predictions of Climate”) about climate models in 2007:

                None of the models used by the IPCC are initialized to the observed state and none of the climate states in the models correspond even remotely to the current observed climate. In particular, the state of the oceans, sea ice and soil moisture has no relationship to the obsered state at any recent time in any of the IPCC models. There is neither an El Nino sequence nor any Pacific Decadal Oscillation that replicates the recent past; yet these are critical modes of variability that affect Pacific rim countries and beyond. The Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, that may depend on the thermohaline circulation and thus oceanic currents in the Atlantic, is not set up to match today’s state, but it is a critical component of the Atlantic hurricanes and it undoubtedly affects forest for the next decade from Brazil to Europe. Moreover, the starting climate state in serveral of the models may depart significantly from the real climate owing to model errors. I postulate that regional climate change is impossible to deal with properly unless the models are initialized.
                ¯

                ¯
                Therefore the problem of overcoming this shortcoming, and facing up to initializing climate models means not only obtaining sufficiently reliable observations of all aspects of the climate system, but also overcoming model biases. So this is a major challenge.

                Your belief in the magical powers of CO2 are truly religious.

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          tom0mason

          Michael262,
          “The OT still stands as part of the Bible.”

          Unlike modern day leftist that wish to remake and rewrite the past, blow up historical monuments, etc, Christians doctrine is not about rewriting the past, what was written stays as it was, thus the OT is still part of the Bible. After all the 10 commandments are still a very good.

          However now with the arrival of Christianity and because with the coming of Jesus, He frees us from many of those old restrictions with the New Word, the New Testament. Out with ‘eye for an eye’ and in with ‘turn the other cheek’.
          Go and read the New Testament to learn more.

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            Michael262

            Tomo
            I have read it, the OT is still part of it.
            Why are both testaments often in one volume ?.
            You’re cherry picking, go talk to your church.

            07

            • #
              AndyG55

              Mickey, another EMPTY comment

              Soulless.

              41

            • #
              tom0mason

              Michael262,

              Nobody is saying that the Old Testament is not part of the bible, was is being said is that the ‘laws’ and restrictions of the OT are reinterpreted (and many rendered void) by Jesus. Christians can eat pork and flatfish (fish with both eye on one side of it’s face) shellfish including shrimp, prawn, lobster, and crab — all proscribed in the OT.
              Please, stop imagining you know and go and read the New Testament and learn from it.

              For a start, read this, Matthew HERE and Luke HERE Both are the reinterpretation of old law by Jesus.

              30

              • #
                Michael262

                Tomo,
                You’re on a cherry picking fest here. Jesus said nothing about ignoring the odious bits in the OT.

                01

    • #
      AndyG55

      “Bit like the views put forward on this blog really”

      Yes, your views are just like a religion

      Just belief, with no empirical evidence to back them up.

      Just a continual droning regurgitation of the AGW cult mantra.

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      Serge Wright

      You refer to good Christians but quote from the old testament.

      Here is what the new testament says (the book followed by Christians)

      “Revelation 16:8-9
      The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire. They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.”

      I would think this proves from a Christian perspective that global warming is not caused by CO2, but rather by failure to repent. If you look at the situation of today and note that climate alarmists are now following a new messiah of their own creation you could also speculate that this the real cause of the warming and wrath of God ;)

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    Ruairi

    Not to demonize CO2,
    Is what worldwide religions should do,
    But to praise its effusion,
    Which grows plants in profusion,
    Giving Earth a much greener hue.

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    Roy Hogue

    I’d give my kingdom for someone in a leadership position who could understand that climate change is a bad joke.

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      Yonniestone

      A Trump A Trump!, my kingdom for a Trump!.

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      • #
        robert rosicka

        Can Trump be a god ? He is definitely moving mountains !

        30

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          About Donald Trump and climate change: I’m sure he understands why Paris is a bad deal from the financial point of view. But I’m not at all certain he understands the science involved.

          Nevertheless I’ll take what I can get and rejoice that we’re out of the Paris bum deal.

          I am sure of one other thing. Trump is not a god.

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    pat

    a wet & chilly welcome back Jo.

    got to get this out of the way:

    Brisbane turns purple early as Jacarandas respond to hot, dry weather
    by Janelle Miles
    Courier Mail – 16 hours ago
    Some Jacaranda trees began blooming in late September — weeks ahead of their normal flowering season, which traditionally coincides with Year 12 and university exams…
    Griffith University Botany Professor Catherine Pickering said the hot, dry weather was responsible for early flowering displays across southeast…
    She said a “huge amount” of research was showing changes in flowering patterns were a response to climate change…

    11 Oct: Facebook: Courier Mail
    Brisbane is turning purple early this year, with some Jacaranda trees blooming in late September – weeks ahead of their normal flowering season. Here’s why. LINK
    from replies:
    William Walker: Signs of a rain bearing tropical low coming to south east Queensland this summer. They need it because some of the dams are running empty
    Wendy Jeans: my Jacaranda always starts to flower late September early October
    Garynjane Adams: Rain coming your way
    https://www.facebook.com/couriermail/posts/brisbane-is-turning-purple-early-this-year-with-some-jacaranda-trees-blooming-in/10157191191267702/

    apart from the fact I haven’t seen any in bloom just south of Brisbane to date, September blossoms are not unknown:

    2014: WeekendNotes: Jacaranda Season in Brisbane
    by Roy Chambers
    In Brisbane expect to see some early blooming Jacarandas at the end of September with the height of the season normally being the last two weeks of October, with the last blooms fading in early November..

    3 Sept: UrbanList: 14 Awesome Events To Put On Your Calendar In September
    Jacaranda Gin Festival, Newstead, (Brisbane)
    With spring being back in full-bloom this September and jacarandas beginning to line the streets with colour, there couldn’t be a better time to enjoy the beauty of gin while being surrounded by botanicals…
    When: Saturday 7 September

    Queensland Historical Atlas: Jacaranda
    The branches remain bare until sometime between September and November, when the entire tree blooms in magnificent purple flowers…

    however:

    3 Oct 2017: BrisbaneTimes: Early jacarandas in bloom are a sign of the apocalypse
    Op-ed By John Birmingham
    Did the jacarandas bloom early this year? The purple wave of death that sweeps over my backyard pool seems to have arrived earlier than ever.
    I’m resigned to scooping about five kilos of sodden flowers from the water every day, but it seems too early.
    I worry that students at the University of Queensland who follow the ancient wisdom to begin studying when the flowers appear in the Great Court will over-prepare…

    You don’t need to follow the US hurricane news, or obsess over satellite imagery of shrinking polar ice caps to see evidence of a warming planet. It’s in your backyard…
    I wonder sometimes if it will be the little things that finally convince us to move seriously on both technology and policy in response to changing climate. Coffee won’t grow as well in future…

    Energy and climate policy might be a complete sh*t show at the moment, but market forces are drawing investment capital towards solutions like Elon Musk’s battery storage business, and away from legacy infrastructure like old coal-fired power plants.
    Even the power companies don’t want to be in that business any more.
    It has no future, and neither do we if those jacaranda trees keep blooming in ***September…
    https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/jacarandas-in-bloom-are-the-real-sign-of-the-apocalypse-20171002-p4yw88.html

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      Zane

      Oh no, not the early-blooming jacarandas! We’re doomed… :) .

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      • #
        Greg in NZ

        My sister lives in Perth and she sent me pics MONTHS ago of the purple death flower trees in bloom over there. Jo?

        Plus with the dearth of hurricanes, the regrowth of Arctic sea ice, the lack of Antarctic melting, the snow in October in NZ and Colorado and – no wonder these ning-nongs are panicking: their illusory world is drooping like one of Dali’s clocks… plop!

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    Zane

    Don’t drink green Koolaid, Mr Pope sir.

    40

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      Latus Dextro

      Zane, his name is Jorge Bergoglio. He’s a eco-Marxist globalist. Forget the Popish nonsense. He has betrayed the church, the congregation and the holy scriptures. His call to the NWO of globalism, subversion of children and a secular proclivity to one-world-religion is widely regarded as apostasy, heresy and blasphemy.
      In the cut and burned world of the religion of peace, he would be running for his life.

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        Greg in NZ

        But he’s such a nice, smiling old man . . .

        Did he inherit his predecessor’s red shoes? Y’know, what’s his name, Jo Ratzinger.

        G•d’s Rottweiler – that one.

        30

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        And he is dangerous. He has virtually dictatorial influence over a huge part of the world’s population and is, for any practical purpose, not accountable to anyone.

        Perhaps since he has questioned celibacy he will be challenged more aggressively.

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    Lance

    A Christian Pope ought consider the realm of Christian Faith, not False Religions such as Climate Change.

    Popes have no business involving the Church in unproven claims of Science or pagan claims of Truth.

    Just sayin. Either he’s a Christian Pope or he isn’t. Do the job or vacate the seat.

    Trying to be everything to everyone means he is nothing to anyone.

    Being Pope doesn’t mean pandering to popular fantasies. It means upholding Catholic Faith and Doctrine and Belief.

    There are plenty of “Green Popes” out there. There is but one Catholic Pope.

    Tend the Garden. Don’t pander to populism.

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      Lance

      PS: I’m not Catholic. But I do believe the Leader of Catholics ought to act like one.

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      Peter Fitzroy

      Absolutely – stay in your lane!

      And are you going to follow your own sage advice?

      /or shut up everyone who disagrees with me

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        AndyG55

        /PF = total hypocrite

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Are you bored?

        Stop stirring stuff up for the sake of it….

        50

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        Lance

        Peter, you disappoint.

        Not really.

        Catholicism isn’t your lane to corrupt. Stay in Your Lane: Ignorant pandering.

        So tell us, Peter, Where is all of that “green energy” in California? eh? It isn’t sufficient, timely, or capable.

        Gotta shut down that entire distribution network and kill thousands of people to preserve your ideology.

        Socialism Sucks, except for the Elites.

        Peter, your ignorance is breathtaking. You couldn’t figure out a load flow if your life depended on it.

        Yet, you lecture us on our failures whilst you can’t even tell the climate given all of history even as far out as tomorrow.

        Face it, Peter, you are an acolyte of a failed religion but too stupid to realize it.

        Have a nice day, Peter. Nice days only exist because of people who ignore people like you.

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          Peter Fitzroy

          Oh come on – the parts of the californian grid that were shut down was all about bushfires, nothing whatever to do with green energy.
          I’m talking about ethics, and christian ethics at that. As an ethical fellow human, surely you must agree that (a) wanton pollution and displaying nature is unethical and (b) it is beholden on christians to call this out.
          I’m not going to ever have to figure out a ‘load flow’, and I fail to see how that has any relation to the topic posed for us today.

          I can figure out biodiversity and why that is important.

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            despoiling not displaying

            08

          • #
            AndyG55

            “I’m talking about ethics,”

            Another subject you know absolutely NOTHING about. !

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          • #
            AndyG55

            CO2 provides sustenance for ALL LIFE ON EARTH

            Totally UNETHICAL to deny plant life a reasonable level.

            PF hates plants and ants them to continue of near starvation ration’s

            The UNETHICAL “former” ecologist

            Why aren’t you “calling out” the HORRENDOUS and TOXIC pollution from the manufacture of wind turbines and solar panels, PF ???

            /PF = Totally UNETHICAL

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    Michael Spencer

    You don’t suppose that Cardinal George Pell is incarcerated for being the arch-Catholic-promoter of ‘anthropogenic global climate cooling – Oops! – warming/change/disruption/weirdness/crisis/emergency/whatever-is-today’s-fashionable-politically-correct-name-for-it’ being a gigantic fraud, do you?

    It seems that he has committed the grievous sin of giving a speech to the Global Warming Policy Foundation - you know: that dreadful denier organisation! https://www.thegwpf.org/images/stories/gwpf-reports/pell-2011_annual_gwpf_lecture_new.pdf

    Surely that would not have anything to do with the rather suspect sexual abuse case against him, now would it?

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    • #
      Annie

      That long ago occurred to me, as well as wondering how much the Vatican really liked his efforts to sort out finances.

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    • #
      Latus Dextro

      Pell wasn’t drinking the kool-aid and wasn’t inclined to drink it anytime soon.
      As a forceful coherent spokesman against the NWO / OWR he was destined to be silenced.

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      Michael262

      Wow, Michael, a new conspiracy!, here on Jo’s blog of all places.
      Now our whole legal system has been taken over by the Blob, its a pity Steve McQueen isn’t around to deal with it.

      14

      • #
        Michael Spencer

        I’d had misgivings about the George Pell prosecution for some time, especially given that he was instrumental in doing something about paedophilia when he was Archbishop of Melbourne.

        There’s an excellent interview about the climate cult by Marc Morano and, most interestingly, he brings up this very subject quite unprompted by me! I’ve linked this interview in (most appropriately) on page 2 of this interactive PDF I’ve been assembling about the weather. And, what surprise! You might find a few bits and pieces of Jo Nova linked in at various places.

        The first PDF comes complete with Index – and yes! Jo gets a mention here and there in this, as well ….

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        • #
          Michael262

          Marc Morano is your climate authority ?, you’ll be stuck here for a long time.

          05

          • #
            Michael Spencer

            Hmmm …. I doubt that (a) you’ve look at what Marc Morano has to say in the specific reference I’ve given, or indeed, (b) have looked at the vast array of information I’ve provided in the links I’ve given in my previous comment to the interactive PDFs. (And there’s a huge interactive PowerPoint with over 1,000 hyperlinks.

            And yes! You’ll be stuck for a long time indeed if you explore that lot.

            Although wait! You might find these all a little upsetting, because there’s lots of good news …. (Oh dear oh dear oh dear!)

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            • #
              Michael262

              That’s quite convincing, its really wasted here, so try submitting it in a paper ( add MM’s endorsement and the Pell conspiracy for a larf ) and tell us the results.

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              • #
                Ted O'Brien.

                I couldn’t see how he could get a fair trial. He didn’t! This was shades of Lindy Chamberlain.

                His lawyers should have set about his defence diffferently.

                There should be no doubting that his reputation on AGW was a factor in the jury’s decision.

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      When I read of the conviction I thought that they had finally nailed him after lots of airswings. Still, the church was indeed rife with abusers (as well as the great and dedicated) and maybe Pell was one after all.

      Then I read the actual charges and details of the events. It all read like something a low-brow Hollywood scriptwriter would dream up for a 1980s doofus movie starring Sean Penn and Michael J Fox. Sunday at Georgies, maybe. The altar boys pinching the altar wine are nabbed by the crazed archbishop in full regalia while everyone is supposed to be at a procession, then, with doors open and still in full dress…

      Too silly for words. Even in the age of Upholstery in Space and shot dummies in Christchurch. People will swallow anything from the media, and I’m starting to suspect they do these stunts badly to test just how much we will swallow. Thank god I’m a conspiracy theorist and not one of the patronising smarties who use the term to wave away reality if it makes living in Guardian Land or CNN Land or Fox Land uncomfortable.

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    OriginalSteve

    Forced Vegetarianism ….this is the warm up act conditioning people bit by bit to eventually adopt an occult pagan belief system….

    Give me a big steak any day and these guys can have thier raw vegies….according to Christian beliefs, we were given animals for food…ergo…fire up the BBQ…

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/two-steaks-a-week-14-cities-pledge-to-cut-out-meat-to-save-the-planet-20191011-p52zot.html

    “Mayors from 14 of the world’s biggest cities have pledged to radically cut down the amount of meat they serve in schools, hospitals and other public buildings, so adults will get less than 300 grams of meat – about the equivalent of two fillet steaks – a week.

    “The “Planetary Health Diet” is designed to cut greenhouse gas emissions and will be adopted by cities – including Barcelona, London, Los Angeles, Paris, Tokyo and Toronto – according to the C40 Good Food Cities Declaration signed at a global climate summit of mayors in Copenhagen on Thursday.

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      AndyG55

      “14 of the world’s biggest cities have pledged to radically cut down the amount of meat they serve “

      Great news, That should bring down the price of meat for those of us you ENJOY it.

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        AndyG55

        Tonight: Chicken fillets mignons, wrapped in bacon, topped with a knob of garlic butter and touch of Cajun seasoning.

        Bake with some frozen chippies, serve with a green salad with citrus flavoured dressing.

        Its a tough world ;-)

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    OriginalSteve

    Get rid of the RET….!!!

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/government-warns-of-price-hike-if-it-listens-to-imf-s-carbon-pricing-push-20191011-p52zws.html

    “The Morrison government has dismissed international calls for a dramatic policy shift on climate change despite new warnings its policies will not reduce greenhouse gas emissions fast enough to meet its promises.

    “Energy Minister Angus Taylor insisted the government’s $3.5 billion climate fund would achieve the carbon target regardless of an International Monetary Fund warning that current policies were not up to the task.

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    pat

    it’s not news that Christianity adopted pagan deities/rituals/customs/symbols whatever. meanwhile, some stuff worth a read:

    10 Oct: AmericanSpectator: The Strange Gods of Pope Francis
    His project is to weaken Catholic faith while strengthening the UN-Vatican alliance
    by George Neumayr
    Why did he (Francis) select the Amazon as his pretext to undermine doctrine and discipline? He could have chosen other remote regions. Why that one? I am told by a seasoned Vatican observer that the answer lies with the ***German bishops, who are largely financing this farce and its accompanying propaganda.
    “This is about bringing the Vatican and the United Nations closer together,” he says. “The German bishops don’t care about Amazonian Indians, and they certainly don’t care about people not receiving the sacraments. Just look at Germany and how few people even frequent the sacraments there. What the German bishops care about is that the Church is more and more incorporated into the work of the United Nations.” The subject of suffering Amazonians is just an excuse, he says, for the “United Nations to treat the Church as one of its instruments,” with the complete backing of the Vatican.

    Before the synod started, the pope had been babbling on about the binding quality of UN pronouncements. It is no coincidence that his silly gathering is crawling with UN observers, such as Jeffrey Sachs, whose consulting racket includes trying to convince dioceses and religious orders to “divest from oil companies” and the like. I have seen a number of these UN creeps self-importantly jump out of gas-guzzling SUVs near the Vatican. They don’t appear too worried about their own carbon footprint. Indeed, they always seem to be accompanied by a raft of superfluous security guards and flaks…
    https://spectator.org/the-strange-gods-of-pope-francis/

    ***reminder of another special invitee to the Synod:
    Hans Joachim “John” Schellnhuber is a German atmospheric physicist, climatologist and founding director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research and former chair of the German Advisory Council on Global Change. – Wikipedia

    24 Sept: Horizon Mag (The EU Research & Innovation Mag): ‘I would like people to panic’ – Top scientist unveils equation showing world in climate emergency
    PIC: ‘As Greta Thunberg would say, I would like people to panic and take action,’ said Prof. Schellnhuber. Image credit – PlanetMallika/ Pixabay
    A new equation showing that the world is ‘deep in a climate emergency’ was unveiled on 24 September by Professor Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, one of the world’s leading authorities on climate change, who said that people still don’t want to see the truth about the state we’re in.
    ‘Based on sober scientific analysis, we are deeply within a climate emergency state but people are not aware of it,’ he told Horizon on the sidelines of the European Research and Innovation Days event in Brussels, Belgium. ‘We don’t want to see the truth. As Greta Thunberg would say, I would like people to panic and take action according to the state of emergency we are in.’

    To make his assessment, Prof. Schellnhuber, founder of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, Germany, has devised a formula that defines the level of emergency as risk multiplied by urgency. To calculate risk, he used the insurance industry’s approach of multiplying the amount of damage done by the probability of the event. For urgency, he followed the model used by air traffic controllers, which divides the time needed to react by time left for intervention.
    ‘If we go into a runaway climate effect, the damage may be between €100 trillion and the loss of civilisation,’ he said. ‘The probability, I would say, is about 10% that this is going to happen. And when it comes to the urgency of decarbonising society and keeping the forests alive, we need at least 20 years. We have only 30 years left to do this.
    ‘It simply means that we are in a deep state of climate emergency. If you trust the numbers from science.’…

    He proposed three ‘outrageous suggestions’ for achieving these goals: build wooden skyscrapers rather than using concrete and steel for construction; create so-called ‘transition super-labs’ by decarbonising three or four entire regions; and paying to lease forests elsewhere in the world so they are not burnt down for economic purposes…
    Prof. Schellnhuber believes that as the industrial revolution started in Europe, the bloc should show further leadership by bringing the decarbonisation target forward to 2040…READ ALL
    https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/i-would-people-panic-top-scientist-unveils-equation-showing-world-climate-emergency.html

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    pat

    7 Oct: The Remnant: AMAZON SYNOD: Is It Racist?
    Written by Michael J. Matt, Editor
    New from RTV in Rome
    From Rome, Michael J. Matt reports on Day 1 of the Amazon Synod. After the first press conference in the Vatican press hall, Michael discusses a few of the blatant contradictions involved in the stated reasons for this Synod.
    For example, the Vatican keeps insisting that the Synod is all about evangelization based on “synodal listening” to the people of the Amazon. But how does one evangelize people to whom one is supposedly listening and from whom one is learning?

    If the wisdom of the Amazon can change the world, why do they need Francis to interfere?
    Plus, this eco-theology and listening to the cry of the earth is nothing new. It’s part of the United Nations, Jeffrey Sachs, Sustainable Development coalition to which the pontificate of Francis has been allied for the past five years. So, what’s listening got to do with it?
    Does anyone seriously believe the Vatican is “listening” to the indigenous people of Amazon here in Rome in pursuit of new pathways for moving forward? If the indigenous peoples are so advanced that we must listen to them in order for the Church to progress, why does the white pope need to call a Synod to save and protect the Amazon?

    And, by the way, what’s with the feathers? Would the Vatican have us believe all or even most of the indigenous peoples of the Amazon in 2019 are still running around in feathers and grass skirts? How is this condescending cultural stereotyping not essentially racist to the core?
    And finally, at the press conference today Michael learned that, due to the priest shortage, women in the Amazon are already baptizing babies, conducting marriages, and even hearing confessions.
    Is the Amazon being used as a laboratory for developing creative answers to the universal priest shortage in the whole Church? Is that what this is really about?

    VIDEO: 21min37sec: LISTENING? Really, Francis?

    Latest from Michael J. Matt, Editor
    LINKS
    • AMAZON SYNOD: Buzzword Generator
    • THE SHAM IS ON: Women Priests and Global Warming
    • VATICAN REALITY CHECK: What about Amazon infanticide?
    • A Word on Amazon: From an American Diocesan Priest
    • AMAZON: Mother Earth vs Mother Church
    https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/4624-amazon-synod-is-it-racist

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    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    The wokeness of the current pope is an unsubtle promotion of Marxist social justice dogma. More treacherous is the subtle introduction of ideas which appeal to the general church intellect but on close examination are subtly contrary to what biblical scripture, in context, actually says. True Christians need to be Berean as demonstrated in Acts 17:11. Be aware of sermons where eisegesis infects exegesis. An indication is the sermon with quotes from preachers who subtly equate evangelism with social justice issues. Jesus mission on earth was not as a social reformer or Robin Hood. Jesus Christ put it this way in Luke 19:10: “For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

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    pat

    19 Jul: NationalCatholicRegister: German Catholic Relief Agencies Fuel Synod’s Push for Change
    Working through REPAM, which has been assigned a key role in organizing the synod, the German Church agencies have provided substantial funding related to the controversial upcoming Pan-Amazon synod.
    by EDWARD PENTIN, Rome correspondent
    http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/german-catholic-relief-agencies-fuel-synods-push-for-change

    1 Jun 2015: NationalCatholicRegister: German Climatologist Refutes Claims He Promotes Population Control
    by EDWARD PENTIN, Rome correspondent
    VATICAN CITY — German professor Hans Schellnhuber was one of the most influential scientists advising Pope Francis on his encyclical on the environment Laudato Si (The Care for Our Common Home).
    As the founder and director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, the climatologist and self-professed atheist was involved from the beginning to the conclusion of Laudato Si and helped to arrange all four meetings on the encyclical, most recently acting as the spokesman of established climate research, according to the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.

    On Wednesday, the Vatican announced Schellnhuber had been appointed a member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.
    During his presentation at the Vatican launch of the Pope’s second encyclical on Thursday, Schellnhuber argued that failure to reduce carbon emissions will lead to “our neighbors and children” being exposed to “intolerable risks.” He also said that “contrary to what some have claimed, it is not the mass of poor people that destroys the planet, but the consumption of the rich.”…
    In the following interview with the Register, given after his presentation on Thursday, Schellnhuber responded to claims made in various reports that he favors population control, primarily by means of contraception and abortion. He rejected comments he allegedly made in 2009, saying the Earth has a capacity for 1 billion people instead of 7 billion, as it currently stands. He also responded to climate-change skeptics, who argue that there is no consensus on climate-change science.

    Q: You’re reported to have said in 2009 that the world’s climate would be stable if it had just 1 billion people instead of 7 billion. What did you mean by that?

    A: Again, it’s a complete lie. You can go back to the original lecture. I gave it in Copenhagen. I know there are some vicious people who try to discredit you. I have never spoken in favor of population-control measures. What I said in Copenhagen in 2009 was about the carrying capacity of the Earth. There have been estimates since the 1700s on how many people the Earth can carry, so to speak. This number goes up and down, and some say 10 billion; others 100 billion; some just 100 million.
    All I said was that if we had unlimited global warming of eight degrees warming, maybe the carrying capacity of the Earth would go down to just 1 billion, and then the discussion would be settled. There would be nothing to do. I was just saying that if global warming is not brought under control, we may see a collapse of human population; so it was just about cause and effect, and it had nothing to do with any proposition or suggestion. But these people just turned the wording around and will always find a way to attack you if they don’t like your overall course. So I feel totally innocent in all of that…

    Q: What do you say to those who say climate-change science is not proven?

    A: It’s ridiculous. Are the [critics] maybe chemists? I’m a physicist by training, and I’ve worked on fundamental physics for a long time. I’m also a mathematician. The thing is the following: If you ask any scientific question, you’ll never have 100% certainty, not even in mathematics. There’s the famous mathematical theorem by Kurt Gödel, where a given mathematical hypothesis may not be proven true or false.
    So when you have such a complicated question like: “Will greenhouse gases enhance global mean temperatures by four degrees,” do you really expect not be able to find one or two climatologists on Earth who will say it’s complete nonsense? If I give you a theory on superconductivity for example, I will find even 30% of people who will disagree with the consensus, so to speak. This is no proof [that it’s untrue]; it simply shows you that in a free country you can have a debate about everything.
    Some people still believe the Earth is flat. I cannot disprove them unless they’re willing to go into a plane and go around the Earth, or space station. But if you would expect science to provide 100% certainty, then we would not be in the realm of science anymore, we would be church, and they have a different role than we have. So I do not think one should be fooled by these outliers.
    http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/german-climatologist-refutes-claims-he-promotes-population-control

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    Speedy

    Someone should tell Frankie to read the Gospel of John, the part where it says “The Truth will set us free.” And he sure won’t get truth from the UN.
    Cheers,
    Mike

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    pat

    the Synod can be fun.
    while indigenous heterosexuality is this Bishop’s concern:

    TWEET: EWTN News
    Bishop ***Erwin Kräutler, emeritus of Xingu, Brazil and an #AmazonSynod #SinodoAmazonico participant, is asked why he believes the Church should ordain married men in the region. Here is his answer:
    VIDEO 1min33sec
    https://twitter.com/EWTNews/status/1181950435273400320

    a response:

    10 Oct: LifesiteNews: Igorot shaman’s grandson blasts bishop’s belief that indigenous people cannot grasp celibacy
    by Dorothy Cummings McLean in Rome
    After a morning of writing, I went to the afternoon press conference. The auditorium again included a who’s who of anglophone Catholic journalists…
    The synod participants presenting today were all Brazilians: two scientists and a bishop.

    Dr. Carlos Alfonso Nobre is a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, meteorologist, and climate scientist who has studied the Amazon for 40 years. Dr. Ima Célia Guimãraes Vieria is an expert ecologist who has studied the Amazon for 30 years. ***Erwin Kräutler, C.PP.S. is the Bishop Emeritus of Xingu and, being an Amazonian bishop, he got most of the media’s attention.
    But the session began with Ruffini and Costa listing off themes presented at the synod this morning. They included the concepts of ecological sins, ecological theology, and ecological pastoral ministry…

    Also sad was the spirited, learned presentation by Dr. Nobre, not only because he very much believes that the Amazon is being destroyed by commercial interests and that we have no more than 20 years to save both it and the climate, but because he hopes the media will get his message out. Unfortunately for him, the media were much more interested in what Bishop Kräutler had to say about what the Church can do against mining companies and why he thinks married priests are so important for the Amazon…
    The married priest question was asked by Christopher Lamb of The Tablet…

    However, I’m grateful to Lamb because he asked about married priests, which gave me my story for the afternoon, Bishop Kräutler having suggested that the indigenous people are incapable of getting their minds around celibacy.

    When I returned to my apartment, I contacted Rexcrisanto Delson, the indigenous ex-shaman’s grandson, and asked him what he thought about this. Delson got back to me while I was (finally) at dinner near the Piazza Navona. Here’s what he wrote:

    “I just heard what Bishop Kräutler said about the indigenous people not understanding celibacy. I find it very offensive as an indigenous person. I even find it very racist.”…READ ON
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/blogs/igorot-shamans-grandson-blasts-bishops-belief-that-indigenous-people-cannot-grasp-celibacy?__twitter_impression=true

    to be continued.

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      pat

      in our own backyard, we have more esoteric concerns!

      Pregnant women told off by midwives for non-PC term
      Courier Mail – 17 hours ago
      Queensland women’s rights advocates have hit out at a groundswell of support to use the gender-inclusive term, and also revealed some doulas and midwives are reprimanding mothers who refer to themselves as women…Brisbane Greens Councillor ***Jonathan Sri says he sees no harm…

      Gender equality advocates calls to change term from pregnant
      THE Greens are being blamed for a PC push to replace the term “pregnant women” with “pregnant people”…
      Gender equality has hit the maternity world with a push by progressives to outlaw the term pregnant women with pregnant people…

      #VictoriaToo!

      11 Oct: Daily Mail: Is this what the world has come to? Government group pushes to ban the term ‘pregnant women’ and replace it with ‘pregnant people’
      •Progressives are calling for Australians to use gender neutral pregnancy terms
      •The call to improve gender equality has resulted in a backlash on social media
      •Many people reacted on Twitter by saying the organisation has gone too far
      •Another British museum caused a Twitter stir when they used the term ‘womxn’
      By Mark Brook
      The Equality Institute, a Melbourne-based ‘feminist’ organisation, is renowned for improving gender equality but their tweet about pregnancy on Tuesday caused a huge backlash…
      The Equality Institute has previously been commissioned by the Victorian Government to do research and analysis on domestic violence, and has partnered up with various government agencies and non-profit companies…
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6264277/Government-group-pushes-ban-term-pregnant-women-replace-pregnant-people.html

      ***reminder, Green Councillor Jonathan Sri:

      Greens councillor hosting climate protest meetings in office
      Courier Mail – 29 Jul 2019
      Brisbane city councillor Jonathan Sri provides his ratepayer-funded office to Extinction Rebellion protesters for meetings.

      26 Aug: BrisbaneTimes: Lord mayor takes Greens councillor to court over climate protests
      By Tony Moore; with Toby Crockford
      Cr Sri said he was planning a “protest about the right to protest” for Wednesday after the state government introduced laws to prevent activists using cylinders to lock themselves to machinery that he described as “like a return to the Joh Bjelke-Petersen days”…

      28 Aug: ABC: Brisbane CBD shut down by protesters again after magistrate rejected attempt to block political action
      Led by Brisbane City Greens Councillor Jonathan Sri and escorted by police, the activists from groups including Extinction Rebellion and Grey Power marched until about 9:00am…
      Councillor Sri said council’s attempt to suppress the right to peaceful assembly was a “very bad look for the Lord Mayor”…
      In court on Tuesday afternoon, a Brisbane magistrate ordered the planned action was permitted, saying he was not satisfied it was necessary or reasonable to refuse it.
      He said denying it would not be suitable in a “democratic society” and ordered it could go ahead…

      31 Jul: BrisbaneTimes: Greens councillor targeted on social media over climate activist support
      By Lucy Stone
      On Sky’s The Kenny Report on Wednesday afternoon, host Chris Kenny repeatedly questioned Cr Sri over why he allowed activists who broke the law to use his ratepayer-funded office.
      Cr Sri said the role of legitimate and peaceful protest was a key part of democracy, and he would only stop supporting the protesters if they changed from peaceful tactics to violence.’
      Asked by Brisbane Times if he would continue allowing Extinction Rebellion to use his ward office for meetings, Cr Sri said he would.
      “Yeah, I’ll definitely allow them to keep using the office,” he said.
      “I’m even thinking about holding a community barbecue on Rebellion Day.”…
      On Tuesday in the council chamber, Cr Sri moved a motion calling on the council to declare a climate emergency, which was shot down by the LNP administration for being too extreme…
      Cr Murphy said while the LNP believed in climate change, the motion was not one that they could support due to its “alarmist” language…
      On Wednesday morning Extinction Rebellion staged a protest of about 30 activists outside News Corp’s office in Bowen Hills, shouting slogans including “Tell the truth” as employees walked inside…

      WHY WEREN’T THE BRISBANE ‘CLIMATE PROTESTS’ MORE ACCURATELY CALLED GREEN PARTY PROTESTS BY THE MSM, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE FUNDAMENTALLY. PEOPLE WERE SO ANGRY ABOUT THE DISRUPTIONS, SOME OF THEM MAY HAVE VOTED SRI (AND GREENS MP MICHAEL BERKMAN) OUT AT THE NEXT OPPORTUNITY.

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        pat

        too funny not to post:

        8 Mar 2018: BrisbaneTimes: Greens councillor under fire over lost tree
        By Ruth McCosker
        Brisbane residents are disappointed with a local Greens councillor who installed a concrete slab which they say destroyed a tree at a prominent park.
        West End residents have questioned councillor Jonathan Sri’s decision to install a concrete slab for a basketball court at Musgrave Park.
        The concrete was laid in mid-February and, less than a month later, a large tree next to the court lost grip in the ground and fell.
        Resident Duncan Stuart said the careless and unnecessary concrete slab was the direct cause of the loss.
        “Very saturated earth caused by the mid-February 2018 laid council concrete slab resulted directly in the tree’s demise,” he said.
        “No wind or other factors were associated with the up rooting of this tree.”

        Cr Sri said while he could not rule out the concrete caused or contributed to the loss of the tree, he would not know until the ***arborist report was returned.
        “I’d be pretty surprised if it was the concrete slab,” he said.

        Resident Kathryn Mellick wrote to both Cr Sri and lord mayor Graham Quirk and said the shocking damage was a direct result of the councillor’s “negligent misuse” of funds from the ward footpath and trust fund to install the court.
        “This experience demonstrates the need for urgent steps to be taken to introduce a master plan for all future use, development and maintenance of the park,” she said.
        “Councillor, I am devastated and deeply disappointed that this should happen in your watch.
        “Your actions and failure to act with due care and consideration in the best interests of our community, our children, our park and the traditional owners of this land is shameful to the point of being criminal.”…

        Cr Sri pointed the blame back at the Lord Mayor and LNP councillors for not creating enough new public green space…
        https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/residents-slam-brisbane-greens-councillor-for-replacing-grass-with-concrete-20180308-p4z3fm.html

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        AndyG55

        “reprimanding mothers who refer to themselves as women”

        WOW, and here I was thinking that people could refer to themselves as what the “feel” that they are.

        Seems there is now “enforced” anti-genderism.

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    Steve of Cornubia

    Once again, the potential for Christianity to be a force for good is hijacked by those at the top.

    I am not religious, nor do I believe in any gods, but I recognise the civilising influence that Christianity has had on many nations. For hundreds of years though, people (often popes and cardinals) have used the church as cover to implement their own warped agenda, get rich or indulge themselves.

    It seems little has changed.

    Today, it is not just Christianity that has been hijacked by people who self-identify as our moral, intellectual and spiritual superiors but governments and corporations. The Left is like a bacteria – anything it infects becomes corrupted and slowly disintegrates.

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      bubbagyro

      Huh?
      Force for good? If you believe that Christianity is wrong in believing that God is in control, then how can it be working for good? Are you saying that misrepresenting “truth” is in the long run good (“civilized”)?

      Internal inconsistence leading to cognitive dissonance, maybe?

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        tom0mason

        bubbagyro
        Obviously what was written is lost on you …

        Once again, the potential for Christianity to be a force for good is hijacked by those at the top.
        ¯

        With an apt application of sophistry and guile, any good and worthy religion can be used as a weapon to corrupt, to disenfranchise, to incite conflict and murder, to use as a tool to start wars.
        ¯
        With an apt application of sophistry and guile, any popular but foolish beliefs can be turned into a pseudo-religious cause. The misapplication of faith and belief will cause human destructive disasters regardless of how many people venerate the pseudo-religious cause.

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    Another Graeme

    As a Catholic I am ashamed and embarrassed by the churches position on numerous issues, this included. I guess this makes me a heretic…so be it.

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    pat

    ABC has religion too. Andrew West was back in the presenter’s chair on The Religion & Ethics Report this week, and the names that popped up were telling as usual:

    AUDIO: 28min22sec: 9 Oct: ABC Religion & Ethics Report: Christianity, democracy, and the common life
    Presenter: Andrew West
    Christianity and democracy have been uneasy bedfellows.
    Tyrants from Biblical times to the 20th century have used Christianity to justify their power.
    But Christianity has also been marshalled in the cause of anti-slavery, anti-racism, women’s suffrage and workers’ rights.
    But is the democratic impulse waning among Christians?
    Luke Bretherton is professor of theological ethics at the Kenan Institute at Duke University in the U.S.
    His new book is Christ and the Common Life: Political Theology and the Case for Democracy
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/religionandethicsreport/luke-bretherton/11572486

    West mentions a couple of really fascinating figures mention in Bretherton’s book who he says are sadly forgotten by most people – Bishop William Temple, a Christian socialist, & Reinhold Niebuhr, a German-born theologian, very influential political figure in the US; Bretherton adds a thir – Jacques Maritain.

    setting aside Temple the socialist, a little about the other two:

    16 Aug 2018: The Remnant: Saul Alinsky and “Saint” Pope Paul VI: Genesis of the Conciliar Surrender to the World
    The Revolutionary Fellowship of Pope Montini, Jacques Maritain and Saul Alinsky
    Written by Christopher A. Ferrara
    In Peasant, Maritain writes of his own relationship to a fellow revolutionary, Saul Alinsky: I see in the Western world no more than three revolutionaries worthy of the name—Eduardo Frei in Chile, Saul Alinsky in America, … and myself in France…

    Alinsky wrote his Reveille for Radicals specifically at Maritain’s request, and Alinsky gave him the exclusive rights to the French translation. In a letter of recommendation for a foundation grant to Alinsky, Maritain described him as “practical Thomist”—an example of just how elastic was Maritain’s so-called Thomism. In the same letter, he described Alinsky as “a great soul, a man of profound moral purity…”…

    It was Maritain who also urged publication of Alinsky’s last work, the infamous Rules for Radicals (1971), which would influence the careers of both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton…
    https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/4029-rules-for-radicals-when-paul-vi-met-saul-alinsky

    Wikipedia: Reinhold Niebuhr
    Starting as a minister with working-class sympathies in the 1920s and sharing with many other ministers a commitment to pacifism and socialism, his thinking evolved during the 1930s to neo-orthodox realist theology as he developed the philosophical perspective known as Christian realism…
    The Fellowship of Socialist Christians was organized in the early 1930s by Niebuhr and others with similar views. Later it changed its name to Frontier Fellowship and then to Christian Action…
    Although not Communist, the group acknowledged Karl Marx’s social philosophy…
    During the 1930s, Niebuhr was a prominent leader of the militant faction of the Socialist Party of America…

    In 1941, he co-founded the Union for Democratic Action, a group with a strongly militarily interventionist, internationalist foreign policy and a pro-union, liberal domestic policy. He was the group’s president until it transformed into the Americans for Democratic Action in 1947…
    Other leaders of American foreign policy in the late twentieth century and early twenty-first century have acknowledged Niebuhr’s importance to them, including Jimmy Carter, Madeleine Albright, and Hillary Clinton…

    In spring of 2017, it was speculated that former FBI director James Comey used Niebuhr’s name as a screen name for his personal Twitter account. Comey, as a religion major at the College of William & Mary, wrote his undergraduate thesis on Niebuhr and televangelist Jerry Falwell.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhold_Niebuhr

    ABC sure knows how to find their guests.

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    pat

    btw just heard this completely fake Fox poll – which has had Trump supporters going crazy for 2 days – and caused the President to tweet about it & bring it up at his recent rallies – being touted on Sky Australia’s “Front Page” as evidence a majority want Trump impeached! there’s been a war for some time at Fox between his supporters, e.g. Hannity, Carlson, Ingraham, Judge Jeanine, and so on, and Trump haters, in particular, Shep Smith:

    12 Oct: Daily Mail: Shepard Smith QUITS Fox News: Network Trump critic stuns colleagues as he exits just 18 months after signing a multiyear deal, prompting the President to joke ‘is it because of me’
    The sudden move comes after the anchor was both praised and derided over the past three years for his criticism of President Trump
    •When asked about Smith’s departure on Friday by DailyMail.com, President Trump said: ‘Is he leaving because of bad ratings? Is he leaving because of me?’
    •Smith, 55, said that he was looking forward to spending more time with his partner Giovanni Graziano, 31, and their dog Lucia
    •Multiple sources told DailyMail.com that Smith’s departure was a complete surprise to employees at the network and he was escorted out
    •A spokesperson later told DailyMail.com that Smith left with his own security detail as is standard protocol for all talent at the network
    •Graziano, who was an assistant on Smith’s show before moving over to Varney & Co. on the Fox Business Network in 2012, also deleted his Linked In profile
    By Chris Spargo and David Martosko
    He will be replaced by a rotating line-up of hosts until a replacement is selected to take over at the 3pm hour…
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7564327/Shepard-Smith-Fox-News-effective-immediately-network-1996.html

    as for the poll in question:

    10 Oct: GatewayPundit: STUNNING. FOX News Plays Trick on Viewers – Oversamples Democrats by 14 POINTS in Junk Impeachment Poll
    by Jim Hoft
    Some people are blaming new (Fox) board member Paul Ryan but is that really fair?
    Rush Limbaugh warned about FOX News Channel’s turn against President Trump just last week…
    FOX News posted a stunning poll on Thursday that shows that 51% of Americans want President Trump impeached on the media’s fraudulent Ukrainian accusations.
    But FOX News used a poll that was weighted by 14 points in favor of Democrats…
    TWEET: Ronna McDaniel, GOP Chairwoman
    The Fox News poll is wrong, just like their final poll in 2016 (had Hillary winning by 4) was wrong.
    A staggering 48% of those polled on this bogus impeachment charade were Democrats.
    17h ago
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/10/stunning-fox-news-plays-trick-on-viewers-oversamples-democrats-by-14-points-in-junk-impeachment-poll/

    Published 2 days ago: Fox News Poll results October 6-8, 2019
    DOWNLOAD POLL
    PAGE 1 METHODOLOGY
    PAGE 28 OF 34
    48. Do you think President Trump should be impeached and removed from office, or not?
    YES – IMPEACH AND REMOVE – 51%
    The Fox News Poll is conducted under the joint direction of Beacon Research (D) (formerly known as Anderson Robbins Research) and Shaw & Company Research (R).
    Note: In 2019, the firm Anderson Robbins Research changed its name to Beacon Research; the Fox News bipartisan polling team remains unchanged.
    Fieldwork conducted by ***Braun Research, Inc. of Princeton, NJ.
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-results-october-6-8-2019

    10 Oct: IndependentSentinel: Fox News’ Impeachment Poll Is Garbage But It Gives Fox What They Want
    By S.Noble
    If you watch Fox and watched Fox in the past, you know that they have changed quite a bit under the leadership of the left-wing Murdoch sons. The network appears to have no love for Donald Trump for the most part during the day. Many of the guests on the evening shows have been banned from the so-called daytime “factual news” shows. Sebastian Gorka is one of those banned but there are many others. Shep Smith and Judge Napolitano, two haters, are being called fact reporters by Fox.

    Fox News put Paul Ryan (Republican ex-Senator never-Trumper) on their board, hired feckless liars like Donna Brazile, and are clearly moving away from supporting the President. They don’t want to be associated with him as President in our estimation…
    Also, Fox News used the Braun research group to do the fieldwork for the poll that claims 51% of Americans want President Trump impeached and removed.
    ***Amanda Braun is a Progressive activist. She is a lesbian, and an LGBTQ activist…
    The New York Times mentioned Braun’s background when she married:
    “Amanda Danielle Braun and Elizabeth Anne Shirey were married June 16. Rabbi Laurie E. Green officiated at the Mill at Fine Creek, an events space in Powhatan, Va.
    Ms. Braun (left), 28, is the deputy organizing director and training director in the Richmond, Va., chapter of For Our Future, a political action committee that supports progressive issues and candidates. In 2016, she was a regional organizing director, in Reading, Pa., for Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign. She graduated from Wellesley College.”
    Hillary again! Her tentacles are everywhere!…

    The President pointed out on Twitter that the poll sampled 48% Democrats and only 12% Independents.
    As of October 2017, Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrat, 24% identified as Republican, and 42% as Independent. Most are reporting there are 34% identifying as Independents. Regardless, Fox only polled 12% Independents and there certainly aren’t 48% Democrats compared to 40% Republican.
    Independent voters are strongly against impeachment by a large majority and so are Republicans. They wanted the headline and the message out there. This undersampling is HUGE and the Fox poll is a sorry joke…
    https://www.independentsentinel.com/fox-news-impeachment-poll-is-garbage-but-it-gives-fox-what-they-want/

    I don’t know if Amanda Braun and Braun Research are one and the same, but some believe so:

    11 Oct: 100percentfedup: JUST IN: Fox News’ Trump Impeachment Poll By Former Regional Director For Hillary’s 2016 Campaign Was FAKE NEWS…New NPR/PBS Poll Proves It
    Wayne Dupree (LINK) reported about a new poll from the liberal NPR/PBS that casts serious doubt on the legitimacy of the Fox News poll…
    https://100percentfedup.com/just-in-fox-news-trump-impeachment-poll-by-former-regional-director-for-hillarys-2016-campaign-was-fake-news-new-npr-pbs-poll-proves-it/

    of course, the impeachment inquiry is a partisan circus. funny how BBC/ABC etc have stopped breathlessly reporting every development, just as it gets more interesting!

    10 Oct: WashingtonExaminer: Joe Biden worked with whistleblower when he was vice president, officials reveal
    by Rob Crilly, Steven Nelson, & David M. Drucker
    On Sept. 26, the New York Times reported that he was a CIA officer. On Oct. 4, the newspaper added that he “was detailed to the National Security Council at one point.”
    Michael Atkinson, the Intelligence Community’s inspector general, told members of Congress that the whistleblower had a “professional tie” to a 2020 Democratic candidate…
    A retired CIA officer told the Washington Examiner, “From everything we know about the whistleblower and his work in the executive branch then, there is absolutely no doubt he would have been working with Biden when he was vice president.”…READ ON
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/joe-biden-worked-with-whistleblower-when-he-was-vice-president-officials-reveal

    11 Oct: Hannity.com: REPORT: Rep Adam Schiff Has Two Staffers Who ‘Worked with Whistleblower at the White House’
    posted by Hannity Staff – 14 hours ago
    A new report from the Washington Examiner reveals two members of Rep. Adam Schiff’s staff worked with the White House “whistleblower” at the center of the Democrats’ push to impeach President Trump.
    “House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff recruited two former National Security Council aides who worked alongside the CIA whistleblower at the NSC during the Obama and Trump administrations,” reports Kerry Picket…
    This is a developing story…
    https://hannity.com/media-room/report-rep-adam-schiff-has-two-staffers-who-worked-with-whistleblower-at-the-white-house/

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    Dave in the States

    The Judaeo Christen scripture is straight forward: “Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.” Worship of Gaia is idolatry.

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    bubbagyro

    The Pope has appointed new Cardinals and reinstated some pedophiles so that the next election of a Pope is stacked. One who spoke out about homosexuality, Cardinal Pell, is in prison in Australia on some trumped up homosexual/homophobe charges. Others are in hiding who speak out against him. And he is openly welcoming schism in the church. A great priest I follow was too outspoken and was starting an “army” to fight the sacrileges before he was quieted for not being obedient. He was sent to Canada but he still makes great youtubes, but with care so he isn’t silenced again.

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    Michael Spencer

    You mighty be interested in checking my comment #31 ….

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    Zane

    The Pope needs to get out of the doom business.

    30

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    David Wojick

    There is a central theological issue here, between dominion and stewardship. If humans have dominion over nature then we own it, while God owns us, as it were. Under stewardship God owns us and nature separately and we are just caretakers. This makes nature equal to or even superior to humans.

    Stewardship is the green theology. When you see that term being used do not buy it.

    10