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Even with a $6000 gift, people don’t want batteries with their solar: SA scheme fails

Battery back-up is so expensive and uneconomic that South Australian householders are ignoring the SA governments offer of a $6000 gift to entice them to buy them.

One man installed the batteries and still spent $18,000. Obviously batteries are a “tempting” offer for renters and the poor (if they win lotto).

Home battery scheme off to sluggish start in SA, despite $6,000 subsidy

Richard Davies, ABC

For the past 12 months, the SA Government has offered households $6,000 towards a battery, as well as access to low-cost loans to install solar panels. But so far only about 3,700 have applied, with only 2,000 batteries installed — significantly less than the target of connecting 40,000 households over four years.

Energy analyst Tristan Edis said …

“At best, you’d be getting a payback at around eight years…” and  “another reason was that feed-in tariffs to export solar energy back to the grid were still relatively generous — about 15 cents per kilowatt hour.

South Australia is the economic space where one distorted market signal meets another.

The opposition could have pointed out how this hurts the poor, but instead complain that the conservative govt didn’t advertise it well.

And who is poorer because of this scheme and who do they vote for?

h/t Dave B

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Rating: 10.0/10 (78 votes cast)
Even with a $6000 gift, people don't want batteries with their solar: SA scheme fails, 10.0 out of 10 based on 78 ratings

165 comments to Even with a $6000 gift, people don’t want batteries with their solar: SA scheme fails

  • #
    Ian1946

    In theory it should work but several pre-conditions need to be met. The solar needs to be able to fully charge the battery and meet the power needs of the dwelling. To charge the battery from mains power is the ultimate waste of energy. Maybe some one can say what the efficiency of batteries are. I.e. To fully charge a 2000ah battery Needs more than 2000ah due to losses in the charger. Likewise the inverter that turns the DC back to AC also has losses. 100% in ?% out.

    I have a much better idea, how about building a HELE power station where the old Northern Power station was. I am led to believe that a coal supply is available.

    Please feel free to correct my logic, and does anyone know how long the batteries last.

    430

    • #
      yarpos

      I a State awash with too much wind power and nowhere to use it or send it at times they may be grateful for the load of a few thousand batteries. Once again reality doesnt align with rainbows and unicorns thinking.

      290

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        The thing I find amazing about this is the fact that this is a Liberal (Conservative) government. Supposedly.

        They are totally out of touch.

        Clearly, South Australia should have been settled by convicts, not free settlers. At least the convicts of those days knew which way was up. The free settlers were all part of a nepotistic cabal of self-interested free-loaders. The free-loading DNA runs deep in SA.

        220

        • #
          yarpos

          They seem to be so indoctrinated by the previous regime they think this is what the public wants. They are scared of the idea of working towards cheap reliable power. SA will be paying the Weatherdill Tax for decades. In VIC we get the double barrelled Andrews/D’Ambrosio Tax.

          150

        • #
          robert rosicka

          I couldn’t tell you the name of the liberal premier of SA or the liberal opposition leaders from Vic or Qld or WA .

          60

        • #
          Another Ian

          Sam

          Some of my ancestors were in the early wave of SA settlement.

          They left.

          30

        • #
          David Brunt

          Lack of convicts is a key reason why SA is different from all other States. Having lived there for 29 years but grew up in Queensland, I know. There is no middle class of entrepreneurs, small business, shopkeepers, traders and others; the middle class is mostly academics and public servants. There is or was a strong working class and a wealthy landed gentry elites, but no new self made rich. Convicts in other States eventually became free men/ women, who had to make their way in the world and did so on the basis of their own efforts. This lead to cultural differences in SA. Also SA is ADELAIDE and vice versa,. A lovely city with a great culture, but lacking drive ambition and aspiration. Hence it has mainly voted Labor over the decades.

          30

      • #
        Crispin in Waterloo

        Add to that a newly discovered form of energy, a liquid fuel. It has amazing properties. The fuel is Unicorn Tears. Like crocodile tears, the source is being kept under wraps until a patent can be registered on a method for replication at scale.

        180

        • #
          Dennis

          The previous SA Labor Government, the originators of the SA transition to unreliable energy, discovered liquid diesel fuel generators and then as destabilisation of grid panic set in they discovered natural gas powered generators, and installed them in the old GMH Holden vehicle manufacturing factory.

          81

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        So 18000 – 6000 subsidy = 12000 to be a ‘contribution’, from each household as a backup, to the states poorly managed energy supply (read un renewable electric BS supply). Just pay for them batteries people..Itll keep us goin and goin and goin ..down the gurgler.

        40

        • #
          Another Ian

          Not far from this to the supposed subsidies that fossil fuel gets

          “Trying to keep up”

          http://catallaxyfiles.com/2019/10/31/trying-to-keep-up/

          introduces you to how the calculation is done.

          But then in comments

          “Bruce of Newcastle
          #3198837, posted on November 1, 2019 at 6:40 am

          River water which flows past farms isn’t owned by the farmers, it’s owned by the state.
          Coal mines don’t own the coal, they pay the state royalties for it.
          Oil companies pay royalties, large ones.

          So why don’t wind farms pay royalties for accessing the state’s wind, and why don’t solar panel owners pay a royalty to the state for harvesting state owned solar energy?

          It’d be interesting to total up the billions upon billions of dollars that wind and solar operators have been subsidised by not having to pay the royalties that coal mines have to.”

          100

    • #
      RickWill

      Round cycle efficiency of a LiFePO4 battery is high when it is not being pulled hard. It can be as high as 95% at low rates of charge and discharge.

      However when used with solar panels the battery efficiency is not a big cost factor. The cost of solar panels IS low compared to the battery. It also makes sense to not use the full capacity of a battery. The linked chart gives an indication of the cycle life versus depth of discharge:
      https://carlenergystoragesystems.blogspot.com
      If you discharge to 50% regularly then you could expect 6000 cycles or say 3000kWh stored for each kWh capacity. If you discharge to 70% remaining then cycle life gets out to 12000 cycles or 4000kWh for each kWh of capacity. There is also benefit in not taking to full charge.

      I have been operating a small LiPoly battery running a little pond pump for more than 5 years. This battery cycles between 60% and 90% of charge up to 3 times per day. The stated cycle life for a cell like this at 100% DoD is only 300cycles. I have bettered that be a factor of 10 already by not cycling it deeply or fully charging it.

      130

      • #
        yarpos

        Like many things , they last longer when used lightly. I doubt this duty cycle longevity factor come into calculation assumptions on payback and effectiveness.

        30

    • #
      Geoff

      The BIG crunch is yet to come. Our aluminium smelters are about the announce closure. In SA you are synched (50Hz) by a big 500MW gennie in the Latrobe valley. When Portland goes the 500MW gennies will have no appropriate load. No load, no inertia, no 500MW gennies, no Grid signal, no Grid.

      As the Grid fails the first thing to go that will affect your lives is ALL the pumps that do stuff. It will take about two weeks for serious diseases to begin. Our governments will blame all those independent regulators. The IRs will continue to tick the regulation boxes even during the death of their fellow citizens.

      This is where we are at. Venezeula.

      190

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        At some point, the powers that be will need to be legally arrested and put on trial for failing to discharge their duty to protect the citizens of the state.

        Its only a matter of time….

        61

    • #
      Graeme#4

      I believe Tesla Powerwalls are supposed to use the same Panasonic battery cells as used in their cars, and I presume that the same charging regime would be used. If all this is correct, then the battery lifetimes should be similar.
      Note that the SA battery didn’t use these batteries – at that time the quantity wasn’t available.

      20

  • #
    Bengt Abelsson

    In Sweden, an electric company offered batteries, and quoted price, capacity and expected life-time ( numbers of charge-discharge cycles)
    So, I ran the numbers and found that the cost came out to 3 SEK (around 0,5 AUD) per kWh for battery only, installation and inverter to be added.

    120

  • #
    TdeF

    It’s an endless ripoff. The payin rate is marked up and added to your electricity bills. STCs. LGCs. The price of electricity keeps rocketing and a big part of the problem is solar which is justified by the rocketing electricity prices!
    All this ‘generosity’ from governments is just added to your taxes and bills. An endless cycle pushing your electricity prices through the roof, spending all the money on saving the planet. Really? Except it’s not true. It’s just theft. Government orchestrated, government legalized, government enforced theft.

    Just stop it. Repeal the RET. Stop the madness!

    400

    • #
      TdeF

      No one needs lunchtime solar. No one. Those stinking hot Adelaide nights when the air has not moved for days and the humidity is soaring and the houses are too hot to inhabit, that’s when electricity should be available, cheap and plentiful. And that’s when you will get nothing and cannot afford it if it was available.

      There was a time governments were for the people and by the people. Now they are for the government, by the governemnt and run by Greens. And in Adelaide, they all have big diesel generators for their own reliable power because they do not want to be hot or out of work. Selfish b**.

      371

      • #
        yarpos

        I was on a comment section in the Age recently were one of the more rabid renewable fanboys was extolling the wonders of lunchtime power. In his world solar delivered “when you needed it the most” when business was operating and peaked from 10AM to 4PM (had an odd idea of what a peak is)and although he admitted power trailed of in the evening, that was when you didnt really need much and people went home and did nothing apparently.

        I can only guess he was a recently arrived Pommie immigrant, and hadnt experienced summer yet.

        160

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          In a funny kind of coincidence, one of the lads here in the office is off to collect his new baby – a Tesla 3.

          Funnily enough, he can see the whole solar debacle for what it is, but I think its the Gee Whiz factor that has drawn him. He also works in IT….go figure…..

          60

          • #
            Yonniestone

            When it stops working ask him if he’s tried turning it off and on again. :)

            40

          • #
            sophocles

            Tell him to keep it parked out on the street — well away from any of his own flammable property.
            Tesla batteries have a bit of a reputation — from the oxygen generated internally during charging ,.. (cobalt cathodic structures) and incinerating the occupants of the car.

            He should be careful to not kerb the front wheels — a bolt holding the front suspension/steering together on that side of the car can sheer requiring the whole (!) front suspension to be rebuilt/replaced which is a bit of a mammoth task given Tesla’s reputation for speedy (3 – 6 months) parts supply … and very expensive given their parts pricing.

            I visited a Tesla Owner’s Club blog a couple of years ago. It was so depressing, I haven’t been back since. So those little vignettes should be thoroughly checked by every potential new owner before exchanging any money for the keys …

            80

          • #
            yarpos

            working in IT dosnt mean much really. A few will have a real world engineering perspective, many will come from the software world and a good chunk will really be admin , service management and project management and not really have much technical background. Then of course there is Management.

            10

        • #
          Annie

          Why assume it was a Pommie Yarpos? Lots of people come from cold countries and there are plenty of dopes who were born in Australia. Pommie Annie.

          10

    • #
      Lionell Griffith

      It’s just theft. Government orchestrated, government legalized, government enforced theft.

      Government is as government does. Government has been that way since the first Government was formed. The few (one?) that was formed that didn’t act that way, soon converted to type and become still one more malignant cancer sucking the life out of the governed.

      Sadly, We the People cooperated in hopes of getting something for nothing. Now, we are slowly discovering, “free” is the most costly thing you can buy. It is turning out to be that you are the main entree in all the “free” lunches handed out. This is as it always has been.

      120

  • #

    All this hardware and the gennies just-in-case…100% manufactured in Australia, right? And the diesel is local brew from the North West Shelf?

    Really, why don’t we just make Sam Dastyari Emperor of all the Australias…and he then can swear fealty to the Son of Heaven of the People’s Republic of China.

    I mean, if we’re Chinese we’ll be allowed to burn as much Australian coal as we like, right?

    230

  • #
    Bengt Abelsson

    It is worse than I thougt.
    Electric company Eon.
    Cited price 55.858 SEK
    capacity 3,6 kWh usable, rating 8000 cycles.
    8000*3.6=28800 kWh, gives 1.94 SEK per kWh ever stored.
    Assume 1 cycle per day, 8000 divided by 365 gives some 22 years.
    Assume a low intrest rate of 7%. That gives 0.07*55858=3910 SEK/year, or 2,99 SEK/kWh
    A total cost of 4,93 SEK or 0,74 AUD per kWh.

    130

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    The problem is that even after subsidy the cost of the battery plus controller/inverter plus installation is going to be $8,500.

    At 0.15¢ per kWh that amounts to a payback time of 19.4 years even if you could get 8kWh per day out of the battery.
    That output is unlikely unless there is a blackout every day, and in any case the inverter has a life of about 7 years and the battery no more than 10 years (and likely to be far less under that strain)

    At a more realistic replacement of 5 kWh per day (every day) at 0.27¢ per kWh (the current night time tariff) the payback time drops to 17.2 years. Even at 0.45¢ per kWh (the current day time tariff) the payback time is still over 10.4 years, when a whole lot of further expense is due.
    I am surprised that they got so many signing up.

    160

    • #
      Serp

      P.T. Barnum (“nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the general public”) would not have been surprised that they got so many signing up.

      130

    • #
      RickWill

      From my experience the battery needs to be sized to give 48 hours without solar input if you want to avoid using grid power. The solar panels have to be rated at 1 hour to meet daily consumption so in Adelaide about 5X what you would need to just deliver your power if you had storage of infinite capacity.

      If you have a daily demand of 8kWh then at least a 16kWh battery and 8kW of solar panels. That will get you through about 999 days in 1000 without loss of power. It would be a toss up whether there is value staying connected to the grid. Would depend on the FIT on offer and the service charge.

      If you could buy batteries for the promised $120/kWh it would be an easy decision. Realistically batteries still cost more than AUD1000/kWh so it has a looooooong payback and there is a risk of the battery not achieving the period.

      130

      • #
        Chad

        Rick, how many homes only use 8kWh ? ..especially in winter when there is little solar input ?
        From my experience, an average of 12-20 kWh is more realistic and 25kWh is not unusual in winter if you do not have other heating sources .( modern homes do not)
        Also , the chance of 2 consecutive days with no significant solar input (<10% of normal) , is huge on the east coast, Melbourne etc.
        Further , what % of houses have roof tops with favorable orientation for good solar collection, and how many of those are completely free of any shading ( especially in winter) ?
        No RT Solar is never going to be practical for 50% of existing properties, and for those that are technically suitable, it is economically a dumb choice anyway !
        I dont know of anyone with “ off grid” solar , that does not have a back up generator .

        00

    • #
      Dennis

      I have noticed over the years that few people understand how to cost anything they buy before they order it, even hire purchase real cost is unknown when they sign up.

      70

  • #
    Serge Wright

    Back in 2018, just as the SA government announced the $6K subsidies, Tesla announced a simultaneous $2075 price increase on their Powerwall, which is almost 50% of the value of the subsidy immediately gone. Link here- https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/tesla-powerwall-2-price-rise/

    However, obviously due to sluggish sales Tesla recently dropped their price by $650 in June this year, link here – https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/tesla-powerwall-price-drop/

    What this saga demonstrates should be highlighted in bold and tatooed to the foreheads of all green leaning politicians and their supporters as followes, “No Subsidies for RE, ever”. For the smarter conservative voters (ie: those who have brains) it’s obvious that subsidising any product inflates the cost and also the installation and other indirect costs, as all people involved in the end to end delivery and installation of the product will look to grab a piece of the free pie. This rabid price hike by Tesla also puts to bed the myth that batteries will get cheaper over time. We now have proof this will never be the case as long as subsidies are included.

    Of course the subsidised battery is just the most recent chapter in the failed subsidised RE exercise. Having made electricity too expensive to use and creating a new class of 3rd world people living in energy poverty, the SA governemnt chooses to use the same failed subsidy solution that created the energy poverty in the first place, to help remove the poverty, only to find that half the new subsidy gets stolen before a sngle user installs a battery. But, this was always going to happen and blind freddy could have told you in advance, because this is what subsidies do. They make the rich people who create and market the product richer and the people who use the product poorer. Unfortunately for the government there is no plan C available to create the same cheap electricity that we used to have other than a return to good old coal !!!

    130

    • #
      Serge Wright

      small typo above – the price hike was $2750, not $2075

      90

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Join the club Serge.

        Glaciers in the Himalaya are receding faster than in any other part of the world (see Table 10.9) and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps warming at the current rate. Its [sic] total area will likely shrink from the present 500,000 to 100,000 km2 by the year 2035 (WWF, 2005).

        Oops! No. Make that 2350.

        Yours was an honest error, Serge. Corrected by on your own volition. Well done.

        The IPCC on the other hand, wouldn’t know honesty if she belted them in the ear with a golden sandal.

        120

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Serge:

      The subsidy was a 2 part one, and may have only been $5,500 for many potential customers. On top of the (roughly) $14,000 for the installed kit there was also the cost of the solar panels which it was necessary to purchase if you wanted the full $6,000 subsidy. That would add around $3,500 to the cost (based on advertisements by FlyByNight Solar etc. for 5 to 7 kW units). I cannot say what the likely lifetime of those units would be.

      In reply to TdeF (comment 3.1 above) Yes, the last thing SA needs is more excess rooftop solar wrecking the economics of more reliable generation. As for the hot nights, they come from hot winds from the NW and in Adelaide can result in temperatures overnight in the high 20′s ℃ and can be unpleasant. The cheaper solution is an evaporative cooler (what the Yanks in their more humid weather call a Swamp Box) which is often enough, although about 5 days a year when the humidity is high, completely useless. In the old days people used to sleep on their front lawn, a practice no longer in use for various reasons.

      So the idea is that purchaser would ‘pump’ kWh out when not needed (in return for 0.15¢ per kWh) after their battery was recharged, and then replace peak hour usage (at 0.45¢ per kWh if they are lucky) and reduce the demand in the early evening peak.

      100

      • #
        RickWill

        The wind generators in SA screwed up today. They endured negative wholesale prices from 4am to 7am then three more 30minute pricing intervals were also negative through the day.

        There is now 2160MW of wind generating capacity in SA trying to get money from consumers rapidly stacking panels on their roofs to reduce their demand. The weekday demand is around 1000MW. About 300MW has to come from gas for stability leaving the wind generators fighting for the rest with some hope of sending some into Victoria.

        Even with all this generation, it is still likely that SA will run short of power this summer. Just one warm day and no wind and well – lights out. Fire up the diesel George. 40,000 Powerwalls might make a difference but, sadly, the reason people with money have money is that they can do sums – the sums for batteries simply do not add up.

        150

        • #
          yarpos

          Yes I had a look yesterday evening and SA suppliers were getting minus $1.26 and the interconnector was dialled back by about 25%, as VIC didnt require anything at the time and was exporting to NSW and TAS (maybe pumping water uphill in the battery of the nation)

          NSW was interesting with close to 2GW coming in from North and South.

          40

  • #
    Bengt Abelsson

    As I understand, the SA government is putting up some 200 M AUD for this scheme?

    I would suggest that say 10 M is put aside a a prize pot for the succesful development of a sun-driven AC device. It could function as a gas fueled refridgerator in reverse, and of course, the hotter outside, the cooler inside. The thermodynamics are in place, a lot of engeneering awaits.

    80

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Bengt:
      The collective intelligence of the South Australia Cabinet is about that of a pelican. A slight improvement on the previous lot, but don’t try new ideas on them. I would think that most Ministers wear slip on shoes as they haven’t mastered tying laces.

      190

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Pelicans.

        Reminds me of Tumby Bay. South Australia.

        I was there earlier in the year. Threw in a line to see if I could catch dinner.

        Nope.

        Pelicans.

        All looking to snavel my bait.

        Politicians. Liberal with the truth. Big mouths, fat guts. Just like pelicans.

        A wonderful bird is the pelican
        His bill can hold more than his belican
        He can take in his beak
        Food enough for a week
        But I’m damned if I see how the helican

        Dixon Lanier Merritt

        130

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Yeah dont drive under one if its on a power pole…..it will almost cover the whole car in guano….

          I suspect eventually the public will have had enough of power outages and take matters intio their own hands. It will be deckchairs and popcorn that day….

          Interstingly though, some posters here have said nothing will change even if Australia suffers appalling economic losses due to greenism – on that day the Elite will have to decide whether to throw a few of their low level bootlickers to the angry mob, or crack down hard with police and military. I hope they dont choose the second route – Australians have a big streak of mongrel through them….

          60

          • #
            yarpos

            Parked under a pine tree with quite a few of them at my oldest daughters wedding. Wasnt a good look, bit like a striped safari truck at a game reserve in Africa. Bubbled the clear coat on a 50c size poatch on the bonnet (!?) Was left overnight beforne it could be washed off.

            30

    • #
      Lionell Griffith

      A heat engine (an AC IS a heat engine) runs on energy derived from the difference in temperature between a heat source and a heat sink. The device you would have the engineers to design, has no heat sink (a region of lower temperature) and therefor has no energy available to do work.

      As a consequence, you must run your AC from energy derived from windmills, solar cells, hydro generators, fossil fuels, or nuclear fuels and not merely because it is hot outside.

      See the Three Laws of Thermodynamics for more details. These laws cannot be broken simply because it would be convenient to do so. They are built into the reality in which we live. There is nothing that you, an engineer, or government can do but obey them or fail.

      110

  • #
    harnaś

    The German city of Aachen cuts more than 600 acres of natural forests to install seven 200-meter wind turbines!
    https://youtu.be/3WaJRc36rlM

    110

    • #
      Dennis

      Not a problem, it’s a renewable resource so perfect fuel for power stations after being chipped.

      sarc.

      51

      • #
        Chad

        Not just “chipped”.
        It has to be ground up fine, dried in ovens, and compressed into “pellets” to enable efficient (???) burning and furnace operation.
        Quite a bit of extra energy input !…before you can extract the thermal energy !

        10

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall – no surprise:

    30 Oct: UK Times: Extinction Rebellion shares our aims, says BP finance boss
    by Emily Gosden
    There is an “80 per cent overlap” between the ambitions of BP and Extinction Rebellion, the oil major’s chief financial officer has claimed.

    Brian Gilvary said yesterday that BP agreed with the climate change campaign group that the world was not acting quickly enough to tackle global warming. He said that he expected Bernard Looney, BP’s incoming chief executive, to “lean into the energy transition” and unveil a new strategy by around July next year.

    BP’s annual carbon footprint from its operations and the use of its products by its customers is greater than that of Britain. It has made tentative moves into renewable energy and its investment in low-carbon technologies accounts for about $500 million of its annual $16 billion capital expenditure…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/extinction-rebellion-shares-our-aims-says-bp-finance-boss-fv3mk52n9

    30 Oct: EveningExpress: Dozens of jobs face axe at wind farm tower firm
    by Press Association
    A renewable energy firm in Argyll and Bute has announced it will cut up to three-quarters of its workforce, despite recording pre-tax profits of £7.1 million last year.
    CS Wind, based near Campbeltown, said up to 73 jobs could be lost among its 94 employees.
    It is the only UK facility manufacturing onshore and offshore wind towers, with the factory bought over by the South Korea-based firm in 2016.

    Charlie Macdonald, Unite regional industrial officer, said: “The news of the redundancy notices affecting three-quarters of the workforce at CS Wind in Campbeltown is a major blow to Scotland’s renewables manufacturing capacity.
    “CS Wind is another example of the spaghetti bowl of multi-national interests calling the shots in our nation’s renewables sector with scant regard for workers and communities.
    “There needs to be urgent intervention by the Scottish Government because if the scale of these job losses goes unchallenged, not only is there a major cloud over the future of the factory in Campbeltown but also over Scotland’s green manufacturing capacity.”…READ ON
    https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotland/dozens-of-jobs-face-axe-at-wind-farm-tower-firm/

    61

  • #
    pat

    31 Oct: Daily Mail: Tories ‘are set to announce ban on new fracking’: Moratorium to be unveiled amid concerns anger at the drilling could hit election hopes
    •Prime Minister Boris Johnson is poised to announce a moratorium on fracking
    •Comes amid concerns the technology could dent election hopes in December
    •Fracking for shale gas encouraged by successive Conservative prime ministers
    By Jason Groves
    Government sources said that an effective ban on new fracking would be announced within days, following an earthquake in Lancashire in August.

    Mr Johnson hinted at the ban on Wednesday, telling MPs an announcement about the future of fracking would be made shortly ‘in view of the considerable anxieties that are legitimately being raised about the earthquakes that have followed various fracking attempts in the UK’.
    A Government source said the intervention would stop short of a total ban, but would mean there would be ‘no new fracking’…
    Fracking for shale gas has been encouraged by successive Conservative prime ministers as a way of reducing the UK’s reliance on gas imports and cutting carbon emissions…

    A Tory source said: ‘We now have a significant number of MPs who are unhappy about our stance on fracking. It’s a whole range of concerns from not liking the technology full stop to local concerns about the potential impact of campaign groups.’ In a letter to Boris Johnson last month, the organisation Frack Free United warned that controversy about the technology could swing the result in as many as 40 marginal constituencies…

    Supporters of the technology insist that UK regulations are already amongst the tightest in the world. But, despite the UK having massive potential reserves of the gas, just five operators are currently in the early stages of trying to exploit it commercially.
    But Greenpeace welcomed indications that a clampdown was imminent…
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7632797/Tories-set-announce-ban-new-fracking.html

    31

  • #
    pat

    just more CAGW stuff & nonsense, helped along by the MSM:

    29 Oct: MetroUK: Climate scientists blast Extinction Rebellion speaker who told kids they may not grow up
    Exclusive by Sam Courtney-Guy
    An Extinction Rebellion spokesperson has been criticised by scientists after telling an audience of schoolchildren they may not get to grow up due to climate change.
    Rupert Read, who has represented the green activists on Radio 4 and BBC’s Question Time, gave a talk at the Schools Climate Conference at University College London (UCL) in July.

    Evoking the climate protest group’s ‘disruption’ by climbing onto a table, he told a 200-strong audience including children as young as nine: ‘This is about whether you have a future.’
    ‘People probably sometimes ask you, what are you going to be when you grow up?
    But we’ve reached a point in human history where the question also has to be asked: what are you going to do if you grow up?’
    ‘I’m really really sorry to have to say this to you, it doesn’t feel good, but this is the truth, and I think it’s too late for anything but the truth.’

    The comments sparked criticism after Dr Tamsin Edwards, a climate modelling specialist and Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) author reposted a recording of the talk on Twitter.
    Dr Edwards wrote: ‘Rupert, I am shocked at this talk. Please stop telling children they may not grow up due to climate change.
    ‘It is WRONG and deflects from the fact it is poor people who are at risk due to inequality exacerbated by shifts in weather.’
    ‘With these kind of statements you undo all the hard work of the scientists and pro-science XR people who I know are trying to keep to the (complex) evidence base, and be clear when they are citing outlier or extreme predictions.’

    Dr Edwards, who frequently advises the government on climate issues, claimed not to be against XR and wanted to help them cite scientific evidence accurately.
    A number of climate scientists supported her tweets, including Dr Kate Marvel of the Columbia University and the Nasa Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York and Mark Maslin, a climatology professor at UCL…

    Mr Read, a philosophy professor at the University of East Anglia, defended the recording on Twitter, telling Dr Edwards: ‘It is not wrong. You are fab, but you have no expertise that can to show that it is wrong.
    ‘There is a serious risk of societal collapse within a generation. ‘Societal collapse’ means that MANY would die.
    ‘If we continue to shy away from these hard truths, we only [make them more likely].’

    Some academics went to Mr Read’s defence, including Caroline Hickman, a climate psychology researcher, who wrote: ‘We need to listen to what children are actually saying they feel. We are not frightening them…

    Henry Greenwood, founder of the Green Schools Project which organised the Climate Schools Conference, said: ‘The comments need to be put in the context of the whole day – one sentence is not representative of [Rupert’s] whole talk’
    ‘I was conscious that his talk would tread close to the line but I had faith he would do that appropriately – I think on the whole he did. The feedback we got at the end of the day was overwhelmingly positive.’…
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/29/climate-scientists-blast-extinction-rebellion-speaker-told-kids-may-not-grow-11006887/

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    pat

    clear as dry mud – give it up folks!

    31 Oct: The Conversation: The science of drought is complex but the message on climate change is clear
    Authors:
    Ben Henley, Research Fellow in Climate and Water Resources, University of Melbourne
    Andrew King, ARC DECRA fellow, University of Melbourne
    Anna Ukkola, Research Fellow, Australian National University
    Murray Peel, Senior lecturer, University of Melbourne
    Q J Wang, Professor, University of Melbourne
    Rory Nathan, Associate Professor Hydrology and Water Resources, University of Melbourne

    Disclosure statements
    Ben Henley receives funding from an Australian Research Council (ARC) Linkage Project with Melbourne Water, the Victorian Department of Environment, Land, Water and Planning, and the Australian Bureau of Meteorology. Ben Henley receives funding from the University of Melbourne and is supported by the ARC Centre of Excellence for Climate Extremes.
    Andrew King receives funding from the Australian Research Council.
    Anna Ukkola receives funding from the Australian Research Council Centre of Excellence for Climate Extremes.
    Murray Peel is employed by the University of Melbourne and has recieved research funding from the Australilan Research Council, Melbourne Water, the Department of Environment, Land, Water and Planning, and the Bureau of Meteorology.
    Q J Wang receives funding from Australian Research Council, Murray-Darling Basin Authority, NSW Department of Industry, Goulburn-Murray Water, Lower Murray Water, Bureau of Meteorology and Rubicon Water.
    Rory Nathan receives funding from the Australian Research Council.

    The issue of whether Australia’s current drought is caused by climate change has been seized on by some media commentators, with debate raging over a remark from eminent scientist Andy Pitman that “there is no link between climate change and drought”. Professor Pitman has since qualified, he meant to say “there is no direct link between climate change and drought”.

    A highly politicised debate that tries to corner scientists will not do much to help rural communities struggling with the ongoing dry. But it is still worthwhile understanding the complexity of how climate change relates to drought.

    So, why the contention?
    It may seem like splitting hairs to focus on single words, but the reality is drought is complex, and broad definitive statements are difficult to make. Nevertheless, aspects of drought are linked with climate change. Let us try to give you a taste of the complexity…

    Is climate change affecting Australian droughts?
    Climate change may affect drought metrics and types of drought differently, so it can be hard to make general statements about the links between human-induced climate change and all types of drought, in all locations, on all timescales…

    Action needed
    We might not know enough about droughts to be certain about exactly how they will behave in the future, but this does not affect the message from the science community on climate change, which remains crystal clear.

    Rainfall intensification, sea level rise, ocean acidification, hotter days, and longer and more intense heatwaves all point to the fact that climate change presents a major threat to Australia and the world.

    In response to these threats, we need deep and sustained greenhouse gas emissions cuts and proactive adaptation to the inevitable effects of climate change. This includes a focus right now on the practical measures to help our rural communities who continue to feel the pinch of a dry landscape.
    http://theconversation.com/the-science-of-drought-is-complex-but-the-message-on-climate-change-is-clear-125941

    what kind, compassionate people.

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    • #

      We don’t know but we must act! Irrationality personified.

      Note standard junk threat list.

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      • #

        Junk threat list — Rainfall intensification, sea level rise, ocean acidification, hotter days, and longer and more intense heatwaves. Model driven garbage.

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        • #
          sophocles

          “Ocean acidification” is an outright lie. The oceans are basic, all the time, and always will be.
          It’s not even worthy of being labelled “junk.”

          20

          • #
            sophocles

            “basic” is another term for “alkaline”

            The oceans are a “buffered solution.” Their alkalinity can change but only over a small tightly controlled range (8.1 to 8.8), which gets nowhere near the ph of Acidic (less than 7.0).

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    • #

      To simplify…

      If there was a definite problem it would be defined. Slob terminology like “climate change” would no more be possible than a leading epidemiologist saying there has been an outbreak of “spots” or “sniffles”. Or just “bad stuff, dude”.

      That’s how you smell a beat-up and a stunt. Climate botherers will do all they can NOT to define. They will occasionally use a term like AGW which has some clarity (not enough, since even I believe in AGW) but their preference is to hijack common language like “global warming” and “climate change” so that there are dozens of back doors and lots of wriggle room. This would not be happening in a real emergency. These people are not just manipulators.

      These people are slobs.

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Pat,
      I reckon this statement: ” Professor Pitman has since qualified, he meant to say “there is no direct link between climate change and drought”. “; should read:

      ” Professor Pitman has since qualified, he now says he meant to say “there is no direct link between climate change and drought”. “; even though he clearly did not.

      Cheers
      Dave B

      60

  • #
    Deano

    Funny – I was just thinking a day ago of all the hoopla about solar powered battery storage system households and how popular they are, you know, everyone is switching over and power stations will soon be history. I’ve yet to meet anyone who has this system or even KNOWS of anyone who has. Apart from Soviet era style show homes, does anyone actually have them?

    80

  • #
    RicDre

    Where do they usually place these battery storage systems…in the house? Given their potential to become a firebomb, I’d be more comfortable if they were in a separate shed a safe distance from the house.

    101

  • #
    Lance

    In Virginia, US, installing a powerwall battery inside the garage/house voids fire insurance liability if the battery causes a fire.
    As well, the local fire department will not try to save a residence with a Li-Ion battery fire, just contain the fire so it doesn’t spread to other buildings.

    So look into such things before installing one of them inside a dwelling.
    Perhaps an outbuilding would suffice.

    Lots of aspects to consider. It isn’t a simple decision.

    120

  • #
    Dennis

    Payback at best eight years.

    Replacement battery needed at best 10 years.

    61

    • #

      An illiquid investment that only breaks even after eight years is a very bad investment indeed. What is never mentioned is that these bad battery investments compete with much better investments. Financially they are ridiculous.

      120

      • #
        Barry

        You’ve hit on another reason for the insanity. Artificially low interest rates cause misallocation of capital to things that would be unviable in any reasonable interest rate regime.

        At a decent interest rate of even 6%, the payback period would make the proposal a complete joke.

        100

    • #
      Lance

      FYI:

      Tesla’s Incredible Shrinking Powerwall Warranty

      https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2016/07/02/teslas-incredible-shrinking-powerwall-warranty/

      The warranty is a decreasing percentage of max charge capacity or max throughput < 18 MwH lifetime total.

      Some warranty.

      120

    • #

      The company I work at insists on 2 year paybacks, and surprisingly there are quite a few. 3 years can be done, and for very large changes they will look at 4 years, but 8-10 years is a fantasy land

      I have had two solar hot water systems on the last 2 houses I owned and would never put one in again. The cost is v high and they fail after 8 years and the expense to replace them is simply uneconomic. Better to pay the higher bills rather than have a large outlay and give yourself the illusion of saving…but you have had to tie up all your money.

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      • #
        Lance

        Our payback probability function looked like this:

        if less than 1 yr, PB yrs = 1

        Probability of funding project = 1 / (.1 + ( payback yrs – 1) ^2 )

        So payback < 1 yr = 100% probability, 2 yrs is 83%, 3 yrs is 24%, 4 yrs is 11%, 5 yrs is 6%.

        Some exceptions were made, but not often.

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Perhaps SA denizens have woken up to the fact that renewable energy can not stop apocalyptical global warming and won’t be diddled any more …

    South Australian Bushfire season brought forward as authorities react to rising risk
    https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/bushfire-season-brought-forward-as-authorities-react-to-rising-risk/news-story/7e55895b3b11b3529116535927c564c4

    Firefighters contain grassfire at Lewiston in SA sizzles through scorching October day
    https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/eight-total-fire-bans-declared-as-mercury-peaks-on-thursday/live-coverage/3bdc1d427e89c548006883a5fe6a8ab0

    97% ‘Science’:
    For decades it has been clear that a transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy is critical to protecting Australia from worsening extreme weather.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/28/from-angry-summer-to-weird-winter-2017-was-riddled-with-extreme-weather

    60

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Billionaire Dan Pena explains the global warming fraud in a clear, concise way.
    Warning NSFW. Language
    https://youtu.be/NjlC02NsIt0

    Via

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/10/31/october-31-2019-reader-tips/#comment-1252854

    30

  • #
    NigelW

    Being from Sth Oz, and having solar, I investigated the overall costs and am not in the least surprised at the low take up. The $6k is an ‘up to’ which you have to max out your battery (10kWhr IIRC) to actually receive the full amount. This then covers about 2/3 of the battery costs, after which there is about another $6k of installation costs….I didn’t bother following up….. it’s a scheme only the well off can afford to participate in.

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    • #
      • #
        Another Ian

        “Hey folks, I have an uncomfortable question to ask.
        If the children are as bad as we think they are at basic science and recognising stupidity when it is on the street, as in XR demos. What does it say about us as parents? We allowed this ridiculous state of affairs to develop.
        We can’t just blame the teachers, we have known since we were at school, teachers are too thick to teach anything. With that bitter truth already in place, it must be down to us that the next generation are so disconnected from reality so ignorant of fundamental physics.
        We have failed to educate our own children!!
        The Gretas’ are multiplying, it must be down to the parents…..”

        https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/31/the-oil-age-is-doing-just-fine-bloomberg-new-energy-finance-notwithstanding/#comment-2835802

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        • #
          Dennis

          I tend to agree with you, but there is considerable influence now via schools and teacher unionists and media, the evening weather channels and carefully chosen words like scorching when we know it was a not unusual hot day. Children must be influenced over time, adults appear to be, such as a thirty something year old electrician installing an air conditioner for me in a dwelling rented from me by a tenant. He made a comment that it is getting hotter every year. His older offsider glanced at me and smiled.

          60

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Agreed. Even in private schools the green madness is being peedalled…

            I mock the green thing, much to my daughters annoyance….I keep saying “show me the science”….but its important she hear an alternate voice.

            10

        • #

          In my kids case I can certainly say that they are very well aware of the “reality” as opposed to the “stupidity” sometimes taught in schools. I have also had robust discussions with their teachers over various “woke” ideas and certainly given them stuff to think about, but suspect my wife and I are in the minority…

          50

        • #
          yarpos

          Dont know about that “us” thing. I have three early millenial kids , all reasonably grounded in reality, all working and all well into buying those impossible to afford homes (without the bank of mum and dad).

          I think two major factors are in play:

          1. A global median IQ of 82. As population increases this gives you a vast pool of people without much reasoning capability. Shift that median number about if it makes you feel better about your country but it still leaves a vast pool of sheep.

          2. The first world has got too comfortable. We dont have to worry about basics of safety, shelter, food etc and have more time to agonise about things like “being our best possible self” and ” saving the planet” and Instagram worthy moments. Maslows Hierachy of needs makes interesting reading while you keep the state of the 1st world in mind.

          Example, an XR guys in QLD gets arrested after much protest hoohaa. Sure enough it comes out that he flunked education, hasnt achieved anything much and lives in mummy and daddy’s waterside mansion on the Sunshine Coast. I fully expect that if you went through XR one at a time you would get a very high % of rinse and repeat.

          60

      • #
        Another Ian

        Quoted by Martin Bella on radio this morning

        “Science is now mostly about an income, mnot an outcome”

        10

  • #
    Drapetomania

    All the people I know and see posting who love solar..NONE have it..
    I would love to see someone..actually check if all Greens in parliment are off the grid and dont own a fossil fuel powered car.
    Of course I know the outcome of that test..they would fail..
    Welcome to the decline :)

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  • #
    pat

    spot the deceptive “advertising”:

    31 Oct: UK Sun: READY FOR ELECTRIC? As electric cars ***become more popular, Sun Motors debate whether it’s time for us to ditch petrol and diesel
    by Rob Lewis, Ken Gibson
    ELECTRIC cars are becoming increasing popular as pressure mounts to become more environmentally friendly. But are they really worth the hype?
    Here, SunMotors writer Rob Lewis and former SunMotors editor Ken Gibson debate whether it is time for us all to ditch our petrol/diesel motors and make the switch to electric.
    YES
    says Rob Lewis, SunMotors writer……

    ***NO
    says Ken Gibson, former SunMotors editor….
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/10247804/electric-cars-sunmotors-debate/

    ***not a convincing “NO”, naturally.

    1 Nov: ThisIsMoneyUK: Demand for electric cars accelerates past diesel and hybrid and is only second to petrol, comprehensive poll of drivers reveals
    •Survey of 7,000 drivers finds that one in five plan to buy a pure-electric car next
    •Some 22% polled said they’d buy an EV, compared to 19% who want a diesel
    •Official stats show that battery electric vehicle make up just 1% of new car sales
    •Increasing environmental concerns and improved charging infrastructure said to be bolstering consumer confidence in plug-in cars
    By Rob Hull
    One in five said their next four-wheeled purchase will be powered entirely by electric – shooting EVs into second place as motorists’ preferred option behind petrol, the poll of 7,000 shows…
    The survey of 7,205 motorists ***conducted by Auto Express and sister-brand Driving Electric claim that twice as many drivers are planning to buy an EV compared with two years ago…

    Data from The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders found that battery electric vehicles had a market share of just 0.6 per cent in new car registrations in 2018 and currently make-up only 1.3 per cent of sales this year…

    Vicky Parrott, associate editor at Driving Electric, described the results of the study as a ‘big moment for the EV market’…
    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7635077/Demand-electric-cars-overtaken-diesel-hybrid-says-reports.html

    I did not make up Vicky’s surname.

    50

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      And of course there might be a “slight” factor boosting the support for electric vehicles, namely the desire to appear all concerned about the environment.

      And Pat, I didn’t see anything wrong with her name. Had she been ‘blessed’ with a name like LittleBrain or Gullible Goose then I might have commented on its appropriateness.

      20

    • #

      I must admit I love my manual petrol car, best I have ever had. And it sounds fantastic.

      EVs don’t sound at all.

      Suspect with EVs and driverless cars we are headed to very boring very unexciting motoring…

      30

      • #
        yarpos

        Personal transport as a beige, utilitarian service seems to be the future if you believe what people say.

        Then again they say:

        There is a “transition to renewable energy” under way
        EV sales are rocketing
        The world is turning Vegan
        There is accelerated sea level rise
        Extreme weather is increasing
        Collingwood will win the Grand Final

        All of which are defied by observable reality

        40

        • #

          I’d take all those things so long as the last one doesn’t happen

          11

          • #
            el gordo

            Good distraction leaf, a softer touch is best.

            Do you really think extreme weather is increasing? Because it looks more cyclic, natural variability comes into play and produces extreme weather.

            40

            • #
              Gee aye

              “Looks”? That’s not science.

              No climate has been completely static ever so by definition all aspects of climate are all changing even if some are small and below detection limits. So extreme events become more or less extreme/frequent under your cyclic regime.

              This is also where Andy Pittman really trapped himself and showed a lack of awareness. Of course. droughts are affected by climate change (however that is created) by definition. Also, this fact does not mean that we know how they change or by how much. I think he exhibited fear for something that was once OK for scientists; admit to the things you don’t know.

              btw, it wasn’t a distraction in the sense of being a fallacy since yarpos was just presenting a list of rhetorical statements and I just went along with it in a light-hearted way. ie your distraction comment was the fallacy (straw man) as there was no point to distract from.

              05

              • #
                AndyG55

                No GA, Drought in Australia is CLIMATE NORMAL !!

                40

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                That’s phalacious.

                10

              • #
                el gordo

                Okay I admit to attacking a straw man.

                ‘Of course. droughts are affected by climate change (however that is created) by definition.’

                Droughty conditions are more common during cooling epochs, using the LGM as an example, but on decadal scale there is no discernible change.

                The next decade holds the promise of being cool and wet, what do you think?

                10

              • #

                I think you write that every other month.

                Don’t stop as one day it will be true.

                00

              • #
                AndyG55

                Don’t stop commenting GA,

                While you take any AGW mantra line, you will NEVER be correct. !

                And you will NEVER have any actual real science to back up your naïve gibberings.

                NORMAL climate variability, GA.

                00

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘I think you write that every other month.’

                I live in hope that someone will walk into the shed and critique my hypothesis.

                ‘Don’t stop as one day it will be true.’

                The date remains unchanged, this time next year La Nina should be showing and it looks like twins.

                00

              • #
                Gee aye

                Well good luck El g

                Just remember that if a thousand people have a bet someone will be right by chance.

                Your task is to explain why yours was not

                00

              • #
                el gordo

                Do you agree that the hiatus in world temperatures for 20 years has falsified the AGW hypothesis?

                My task is to explain the global cooling mechanisms. A quiet sun will have a profound effect on climate, in that it causes a meandering jet stream which creates more cloud and cools the earth.

                00

          • #
            AndyG55

            “I’d take all those things “

            Without any evidence.

            Just “believe”, GA.. no rational thought capable or needed.

            10

      • #
        David Maddison

        I love my 6 litre V8.

        It can run on supposedly “green” fuel, 95% ethanol but it is neither green nor economical even though it’s production is taxpayer subsidised in Australia.

        I choose not to run it on ethanol because its consumption is about one third more than petrol plus the price differential is not enough to make it cheaper than petrol per km.

        50

        • #
          pat

          31 Oct: UK Express: Electric cars ***could soon be charged within a speedy 10 minutes to ease customer ‘anxiety’
          ELECTRIC cars ***could be charged for journeys of over 200 miles in just 10 minutes ***within years if the vehicles are fitted with new Lithium-ion batteries, according to scientists.
          By Luke Chillingsworth
          Charging lithium batteries in low temperatures can cause issues as metallic lithium forms around the anode to cause devastating consequences.
          Damage to batteries could cause cars to seize mid-journey but the new method could prevent this risk.
          Scientists say using higher temperatures of almost 60 Celcius would avoid the problem…
          LINK: You could get paid £2,000 by getting rid of your car today

          Dr Chao-Yang Wang, professor at the Pennsylvania State University said a fast charge station would have to provide a 900 amp current for 10 minutes to charge a vehicle at the rapid speed.
          However, he said this was already feasible with existing fast chargers and that the technology could be implemented in commercial vehicles in just years…

          Professor Chao-Yang Wang added: “We demonstrated that we can charge an electrical vehicle in 10 minutes for a 200 to 300-mile range, and we can do this maintaining 2,500 charging cycles, or the equivalent of half a million miles of travel.
          “The 10-minute trend is for the future and is essential for the adoption of electric vehicles because it solves the range anxiety problem.”…
          https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1198132/electric-car-uk-ev-vehicle-charge-points-rapid-charging-science

          10

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Higher charging speed = faster degrading battery = shoreter battery life.

            You cant have something for nothing…..

            20

            • #
              yarpos

              Depends how its positioned

              If the customer observed “fast charging is actually charging the real under the covers capacity in the 20-80% range then it wont hurt the battery too much at all. Then you have the expected life of the overall product and the consideration of whether the shorter battery life will happen in a time window that matters. If battery life degrades from 8 years to 7 years when most customers only keep their cars for 4 years , does it even matter?

              Manufacturers make these decisions all the time. Aircraft are a great example, we probably cant afford prefectly safe planes, so we have ones that are safe enough and have insurance for when thats wrong …cough, Boeing

              10

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Give me a V8 any day. I notice a lot of the newer landcruisers are V8 diesels…

          We had to rescue 2 girls and their jeep that had a rear drive shaft sheared off at the rear diff. Copious amounts of gaffer tape secured the drive shaft roughly to the rear diff, applied a snatch strap and then dragged the dead vehicle ( with occupants inside ) up a 35 degree bush track ( with rollovers ) in a 5.0L landcruiser V8.

          In Low Low 1 the landy sounded like a APC, and never missed a beat.

          Gotta love cubic inches….

          30

        • #
          Lance

          Just finished upgrades on my neighbor’s 2019 5.7 Liter Dodge Ram 1500.

          Computer change out. Throttle body change to 88 mm. Opened exhaust to 100 mm. Cool air intake with KN filter.

          Now at 500 HP.

          this thing is a Beast. It will break traction at any speed.

          He doesn’t care about anything but “More Power”.

          Kind of fun. :)

          20

    • #
      Annie

      I don’t think a risk of being incinerated in a small vehicle can be described as environmentally friendly.

      00

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    So, can Greta get from LA to Madrid by Dec 2 without using any fossil energy? Stay tuned!

    Spain offers to host Cop25 climate talks after Chile withdraws

    https://www.climatechangenews.com/2019/10/31/spain-offers-host-cop25-climate-talks-chile-withdraws/

    h/t: Tom Nelson

    30

  • #
    David Maddison

    I suspect it would be cheaper for householders to generate their own power with diesel generators, even with this subsidy.

    30

  • #
    David Maddison

    Australians had the choice of cheap reliable power which was economical for households and industry or supposed “green” power to solve a non-existent problem. They chose the latter and households now suffer and most of our industry is now gone, including ironically SA’s only recycling plant and our motor industry.

    30

  • #
    PeterS

    It won’t stop the aloof political elite (ALP+Greens & LNP) wasting more of OUR money on more expensive less reliable power generation schemes. It will only ever stop once enough people vote for a different party other than the two major ones. It’s our only way out, and it’s democratic. Otherwise, we might as well all go back to sleep.

    50

    • #
      el gordo

      Its galling for us to see the PM curtsy to the green/left, but he obviously has a four year plan which is inclusive to avoid destabilisation.

      As I mentioned earlier, if Premier Gladys sought tenders for a new Hele then Angus Taylor and the PM would underwrite the venture with due diligence. The states must choose their energy mix, and crash and burn if they get it wrong.

      The smaller parties are unlikely to grow as the world heads into recession.

      00

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        el gordo:

        If history is a guide smaller parties get a boost in a recession, and a bigger boost in a depression.

        See the rise of AfD in Germany as the economy ‘tanks’ under the load of the “green economy”. Following the lead of an even more right wing party back in 1930 when the Great Depression hit.
        See the problems in Spain, France, Italy, Greece, Denmark, Austria, Hungary, Poland, and Sweden.

        00

  • #
    TdeF

    It is also quite outrageous that the South Australian government chooses to subsidize middle class indulgence with public money?

    When did governments become the new Medici, handing out public money to suit fashionable causes?

    As Margaret Thatcher said, governments do not have any money. They only have your money. And on the basis that they can spend it more wisely than you can, and I doubt that.

    40

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      TdeF:

      Many moons ago, when they started subsidising the ARTS. Art Galleries, Museums, then in the last 50 years an increasing torrent of money to “artistic” people. The latter has turned into incestuous covens agreeing only that the various governments should throw more down into the pit (I think the Woke word is gurgler).

      50

  • #
    David Maddison

    Breaking news, off topic.

    Thunberg’s handlers stop her getting climate award.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/greta-thunberg-rejects-climate-award-rips-council-that-gave-it-to-her

    10

    • #
      TdeF

      Whoever is writing her responses is replete with fake science, the evils of CO2. It is amazing when people like Greta quote ‘scientists’ but always the alarmists. There are other scientists? As for the ‘debate’ on the alleged problem, what debate? There is no scientific proof of any of this and plenty of proof that it is not true, cannot be true and wouldn’t make a difference if it was.

      CO2 is natural, all of it. Fossil fuels are old plants. CO2 is essential for all life and Hydrated Carbon Dioxide, carbohydrate is the basis of all life.

      And if the seas were going to rise rapidly, it would have happened. And a slight warming after the little ice age is what you get after an ice age or we would still be in it.

      It’s all about scaring people. And the money. Greta is another victim of the Profiteers of Doom. How many young Germans believed Adolph?

      40

  • #
    Robber

    The solar distortions:
    – Government rebates for solar panels
    – Feedin tariffs well above the wholesale value that with any more solar will be zero at midday
    – Government rebates for batteries
    Yet we keep getting told that solar is “competitive”.
    Dr Alan Finkel reported that the cost of solar with 12 hours backup was $172/Mwhr and reliable new coal and gas $76-83/MWhr.
    Meanwhile more investments are required in the grid to cope with variable demand, and under-utilised generators must be on standby for when the sun doesn’t shine.

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    pat

    1 Nov: ABC: Scott Morrison to slam environmental groups ‘targeting’ businesses with ‘selfish’ secondary boycotts
    By political reporter Nour Haydar
    Prime Minister Scott Morrison has vowed to outlaw the “indulgent and selfish” practices of environmental groups who campaign against Australian businesses that work with companies and industries they are opposed to, such as coal.
    At a lunchtime speech to the Queensland Resources Council on Friday, obtained by the ABC, Mr Morrison will argue that so-called “secondary boycotts” can have serious consequences for the Australian economy.

    “Environmental groups are targeting businesses and firms who provide goods or services to firms they don’t like, especially in the resources sector,” a copy of his speech says…
    “It is a potentially more insidious threat to the Queensland economy and jobs and living standards than a street protest.”…
    “Let me assure you this is not something my Government intends to allow to go unchecked,” Mr Morrison will say…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-01/scott-morrison-environmental-groups-targeting-businesses-boycott/11660698

    massive PR piece for the protester by Slezak/ABC:

    24 Oct: ABC: Adani engineering contractor GHD pushed into ‘crisis mode’, say some staff, after protests over Carmichael coal mine involvement
    By Michael Slezak, ABC Investigations
    Activists have now been focusing on contractors Adani will need to finish the design of the mine and to build it.
    Activist group Market Forces has been among the leading organisations in that campaign…
    “We try to really highlight to the contractors the reputational risk of being involved in a massive new coal project in the midst of a climate crisis,” Market Forces campaigner Pablo Brait said.
    The group has targeted GHD employees on LinkedIn with campaign information and surveys.
    “We don’t think any company that sees itself as a forward-thinking or ethical company should be going anywhere near the Adani Carmichael project,” Mr Brait said…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-24/adani-contractor-goes-into-crisis-mode-after-protestor-pressure/11627612

    AustralianProgress.org: Pablo Brait, Campaigner, Market Forces
    Pablo Brait is a community organiser and campaigner who has been focused on fighting climate change since 2007 when he co-founded local community group Yarra Climate Action Now. Since then he has worked on a number of pro-renewables and anti-fossil fuel campaigns with Beyond Zero Emissions, The Sunrise Project and Nature Conservation Council of NSW. Pablo is currently a campaigner at Market Forces, an organisation dedicated to stopping the flow of money, via the finance sector, to fossil fuel projects and companies
    https://australianprogress.org.au/people/pablo-brait/

    1 Nov: AFR: Morrison vows to take action against environmental ‘anarchists’
    by Andrew Tillett
    Previewing his speech, Mr Morrison told Melbourne radio station 3AW while he respected the right to protest, some activists had gone too far.
    “I really think they are starting to push the envelope where there are reports of people being spat at just because they are wearing a business shirt on their way to work,” Mr Morrison said, referring to violent protests outside a mining conference in Melbourne this week.
    However, he acknowledged he could not stop protests that brought cities to a standstill, such as protesters blocking intersections or gluing themselves to roads, saying they were a state law enforcement matter…
    But the government was looking at laws to protect companies, particularly small businesses, from what he described as secondary boycotts designed to wilfully “injure” their businesses.
    “They are being blackbanned and they’re being harassed and this is not something any Australian should have to put up with,” he said…READ ON
    https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/morrison-vows-to-take-action-against-environmental-anarchists-20191101-p536fk

    VIDEO: 1min32sec: 1 Nov: 9News: ‘Radical activism’ threatens mining industry: PM
    by 9News with AAP
    “Apocalyptic in tone. It brooks no compromise. It’s all or nothing. Alternative views are not permitted,” Mr Morrison will say…
    “This is not about free speech,” Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton told Today.
    “It is not about the ability to protest.
    “These people are completely against our way of life.
    “So I think the prime minister is dead right in saying that these people can protest peacefully as many people do.
    “But the disruption that they seek to cause, the disharmony that they seek to sow within our society s unacceptable.”…
    “I think one of the ways that the state governments need to look at it is to charge people the cost of the police response.
    “We don’t have 150 police just sitting around in Melbourne or Brisbane or Sydney waiting to respond to these people who spontaneously pull these stunts together.”…
    https://www.9news.com.au/national/climate-change-protests-australia-scott-morrison-to-crack-down-on-activists/db5f8dde-1b6e-4875-8e02-6050cae32057

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      pat

      Samantha/AYCC says majority of Aussies are opposed to Adani’s mine project. we’re moving away from coal. RE all the way. on 4RPH & partly-taxpayer-funded community radio around the country.
      Malvika & Samantha – talk about a smug pair – ABC future staffers?

      PIC: 31 Oct: TheWire: Young climate activists question GHD’s Involvement with Adani Carmichael Mine
      Produced By Malvika Hemanth
      Featured in story: Samantha James – SA state coordinator and spokesperson for the Australian Youth Climate Coalition
      Engineering firm GHD has chosen to remain quiet about their involvement with Adani as concerns about their partnership increase amongst employees and anti-Adani protesters.
      Today ???supporters gathered outside GHD buildings across Australia to ask the engineering firm to treat [Australians] to a safe climate future as part of a Halloween themed protest.
      The Wire did ask GHD to comment upon AYCC’s claims but they have said that they have already stated their position in an online statement and cannot reveal any more at this point in time.
      DOWNLOAD AUDIO 5min19sec
      http://thewire.org.au/story/concerns-over-ghds-involvement-with-adani-carmichael-mine-heightens/

      Samantha in Junkee:

      21 Oct: Junkee: Climate Activism Will Make You Less Lonely
      by Joel Burrows
      (Joel Burrows is a journalist and playwright that doesn’t want the planet to die. His work has been published by The Guardian, Writers Bloc, and The Music)
      Fighting the climate crisis seems like a pretty smart idea, for a number of reasons. Our PM loves coal, we have climate deniers, and the shorelines are drowning. Advocating for climate change won’t just save the polar bears, though — it can make you feel less lonely.
      According to a 2015 VicHealth survey: “loneliness may be more detrimental to personal wellbeing than general feelings of either stress or anxiety.”…
      These feelings of loneliness, coupled with climate grief, can be devastating…

      Ish Varlin, a member of the Australian Student Environment Network (ASEN), told Junkee that “people feel alone when it comes to climate change.”…
      Ish went onto say that the mere act of participating in a climate strike can help you feel less isolated. “When you’re a part of a collective, there is no way to feel alone; you aren’t alone.”…

      ***Samantha James, a volunteer for the Australian Youth Climate Coalition (AYCC), told us that seeing climate change wins can also make you feel connected to the movement. “The first campaign I ever had was in twenty-seventeen. Westpac pulled out of funding the Adani coal mine but also of investing in any new thermal coal projects.”
      This victory made Samantha reevaluate what she could do for this community. “You know, if we stop these projects going forward, then we’re stopping literally billions of tones of CO2 being released into the atmosphere,” she noted. “It’s very empowering. It removes that feeling of helplessness.” Samantha believes that the big wins — and even the loses — bring her collective together and help everyone feel less alone…

      Samantha likewise hangs with other AYCC volunteers when it isn’t campaigning o’clock. “We go out and see bands together,” said Samantha. “I love these people like my family.”…

      So, if you’re a human that’s feeling alone in this current climate crisis, then maybe think about joining one of these groups. The AYCC’s running Climate Summit Bootcamps (LINK) and ASEN has a sustainability conference in Jan (LINK). And if they don’t sound like your cup of tea, no worries. There is probably another enviro collective near you…
      These climate-focused collectives and groups are legitimately making a difference. They are saving the planet. And while they’re doing this fantastic work, they’re also creating inclusive and meaningful spaces. They are helping their members feel empowered inside of this terrible crisis…
      https://junkee.com/climate-activism-will-make-you-less-lonely/225627

      31 Oct: IllawarraMercury: Protestors target Wollongong office of GHD, urge them to cut ties with Adani
      by Agron Latifi
      PHOTO GALLERY – 8 PICS
      Environmental activists decked out in their ‘spookiest’ Halloween attire descended on Crown St Mall on Thursday morning to protest GHD’s involvement with the Adani coal mine.
      Australian engineering firm GHD, which was contracted earlier this year to work with Adani, has offices all over the country, including one in the heart of Wollongong.
      Protestors, led by Wollongong members of the Australian Youth Climate Coalition, urged GHD to cut dies with Adani.
      AYCC member Isabella Todd said activists wanted to bring awareness to the “devastating impacts” of the proposed mine in Queensland.
      “We’re in the middle of a climate crisis because of fossil fuel emissions; the planet can’t afford this mega coal mine,” Todd said…
      “We want to encourage more staff to raise their concerns about GHD’s involvement with Adani with management, to see that their voice has power in the company,” (AYCC member Dylan) Green said…
      https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/6467759/protestors-target-wollongong-office-of-ghd-urge-them-to-cut-ties-with-adani/

      Stop Adani Wagga group urges GHD to reconsider links to …
      Daily Advertiser – 24 Oct 2019
      ABOUT a dozen people attended a rally outside of Wagga’s GHD office to highlight the contractor’s involvement with the Queensland…

      Port Macquarie environment coalition urges GHD to …
      Port Macquarie News – 23 Oct 2019
      environment coalition urges GHD to reconsider links to Adani coal…

      Stop Adani week of action includes rally against Port …
      Port Macquarie News-22 Oct 2019
      Rally around: A coalition of environment groups opposing the Adani coal … outside long-serving Adani contractor GHD on Thursday morning.

      24 Oct: EchoNetDaily (Byron Bay): GHD, the Byron bypass, and costly FOIs
      by Aslan Shand
      Byron Shire Council (BSC) have responded to concerns over the use of GHD as the contractors working on Byron Shire Council’s referral to the Commonwealth Department of Environment and Energy (DoEE).
      Last week Stop Adani Byron Shire highlighted that the council had passed a resolution in November 2017 that stated they would no longer contract companies that were involved with the Adani Carmichael coal mine.
      A Council spokesperson told The Echo that, ‘Council’s view is that the preparation of the referral to the DoEE by consultants GHD was not a new service but an extension of their engagement for the Environmental Assessment of the Bypass Project…

      The Byron Environment Centre (BEC) has been seeking documents from Byron Shire Council on the Byron bypass, their processes and decision making. Last week The Echo reported that the council had informed the BEC that their GIPA (Freedom of Information) request would cost over $20,000. Since then the Council and BEC have worked to narrow the terms of the GIPA, however, it is still thousands of dollars.
      Responding to the refined request Council told BEC president John Lazarus that the ‘application satisfies the criteria of being of special interest to the public.’ As a result Council will give BEC a 50 per cent discount on the revised cost of $4,722.50 reducing it to $2,361.25…
      https://www.echo.net.au/2019/10/ghd-byron-bypass-costly-fois/

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        pat

        btw the Junkee article posted had wind turbines all around it which, when clicked on, were an ad for Bank Australia:

        Wikipedia: Bank Australia: The company’s total assets were reported at $6.3 billion, as of 30 June 2019…
        Bank Australia is a signatory of the United Nations Global Compact, a member of the Global Alliance for Banking on Values and RE100 and is a Founding Partner of the Victorian Government’s TAKE2 pledge…
        The company’s head office is in Kew, Victoria and its National Contact Centre is located in Moe in the Latrobe Valley in Victoria.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Australia

        About Bank Australia: Who we are
        We started in 1957 as the CSIRO Co-operative Credit Society and have grown and evolved, joining together 72 credit unions and co-operatives to become Australia’s first customer-owned bank. We changed our name to Bank Australia in 2015…
        What is ‘clean money’?
        At Bank Australia, we say our money is ‘clean’ because it is never loaned to industries (eg coal, nuclear weapons, gambling, tobacco, live animal export) that do harm…
        https://www.bankaust.com.au/about-us/

        what they do invest in, according to the ad on Junkee?

        RENEWABLE ENERGY PROJECTS AND NOT-FOR-PROFIT ORGANISATIONS…ETV

        SMEE – who organises all the declarations The Guardian launches?

        21 Oct: Guardian: Leading Australian engineers turn their backs on new fossil fuel projects
        The Engineers Declare movement pledges to put climate considerations first in evaluating plans
        by Ben Smee
        About 1,000 Australian engineers and 90 organisations – including large firms and respected industry figures who have worked with fossil fuel companies – have signed a declaration to “evaluate all new projects against the environmental necessity to mitigate climate change”.
        As the Australian Engineers Declare (LINK) movement gathers pace, some industry figures say firms that work on Adani’s Carmichael coalmine project face a potential revolt from staff, and might struggle to recruit highly skilled people…

        Engineers Without Borders Australia interacts with about 10,000 university students through training courses each year. The organisation’s chairman, Gavin Blakey, says young engineers care about building sustainable futures…

        Michael Green, the director of Bradman Recruitment, said engineers seeking work were clearly prioritising firms that made careful decisions about which projects they worked on.
        “(Firms) will start having problems recruiting, particularly younger people. The last couple of years the climate emergency concept is there, it is affecting people’s decisions. If you’ve been lucky enough to pick up expertise in renewables, you’re going to be far more favoured by employers than those who don’t.”

        ***Next week, environmental activists intend to again ramp up pressure on GHD, an engineering and services company whose statements about its work on Carmichael have not been definitive…
        One of the world’s most storied engineering firms, Arup, has signed on to Engineers Declare…
        “Engineers are uniquely placed to make a significant contribution to tacking climate change, through the projects we choose to do and how we choose to do them, our ability to solve complex problems and the investments in research and innovation that we make,” the chair of Arup Australasia, Peter Chamley, said.
        https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/21/leading-engineers-turn-their-backs-on-new-fossil-fuel-projects

        as usual, the useful few idiots who protest do so on behalf of the likes of Arup, the FakeNewsMSM, political parties of all stripes, CAGW-invested corporations, etc.

        too bad people voted down the “climate election”.

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          Maptram

          Bank Australia invests in renewable energy projects and not for profit organisations. Perhaps they should have said “Bank Australia invests in renewable energy projects and other not for profit organisations.” Bank Australia investors would be hoping Bank Australia didn’t “invest” too much in Windlab. Windlab is an ASX listed global renewable energy development company established to commercialise world leading atmospheric modelling and wind energy assessment technology, developed by Australia’s premier scientific research institute, the CSIRO. The company was listed about three years ago at $1 per share. Shares are now trading at $0.75 and the company is still losing money.

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          yarpos

          In summary , engineering companies will follow the money.

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    MudCrab

    So, brief backstory.

    Back in the day I was a member of the Liberal party and reasonably active.

    Then we got Turnbull, who at that stage of his career was utterly useless and yet still failing to live down to his own low performance standards. Membership of the party was up for renewal and I really could not be bothered.

    So walked away and became a DelCon.

    Then I joined Cory, an act I don’t regret but turned out to be mildly disappointing.

    So, the AC folded and I was no longer formally a member of any party. So in theory I could have re-joined the Liberals at a state level and been a happy and shiny conservative again.

    But… yeah… This is firstly upper class welfare (never a good look for a party that wants to shrug off the ‘blue blood’ slur) and also doesn’t sodding work.

    I mentioned this in email.

    I mentioned this directly face to face.

    No, I am told, this is an EXCELLENT energy policy and the one we are going to take to the next election!

    And that is why I honestly cannot be bothered actively supporting SA politics. You need to believe in a party to truly support it. I currently don’t.

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    Zane

    Why oh why don’t they just build a serious new HELE coal plant north of Adelaide or alternatively a stonking big efficient combined cycle gas generator to solve their power crisis once and for all? There must be oodles of natural gas available offshore in SA, and even onshore. Use it. Stop pandering to green foolishness.

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    Bulldust

    There’s a couple of interesting interviews up on YouTube today. I watched Piers Corbyn (yes, brother of that socialist bloke running UK Labor) with Sargon of Akkad:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grtV811cURU

    There is also an LBC interview of Farage with Trump – haven’t seen that yet, but it should be amusing.

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      Serp

      Thanks Bulldust; Piers Corbyn is usually good value so I’ll definitely look at it –probably ad free given Sargon of Akkad’s apostate status with the arbiters of what’s fit for us to hear, see and think.

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    Zane

    Capital costs are minimised when every household is connected to the grid and uses it. Billing, IT, admin and head office costs also less as spread over a larger customer base. Economics 101. So if every second house in the street was offgrid with solar panels and batteries, it’s really not an efficient way to run things. Which is why Nigeria is third world and Australia and Singapore are not. Governments should stop this nonsense and not waste taxpayer money on subsidizing green fantasies.

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Good point Zane.

      Trouble is we’ve gone past the “nonsense” stage, it’s now deadly serious and driving people to despair.

      An aimless hamstrung nation.

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      Capital costs are minimised when every household is connected to the grid and uses it. Billing, IT, admin and head office costs also less as spread over a larger customer base.

      Okay then, now imagine a huge Industrial consumer.

      Look at your power bill, and multiply it by a thousand. They pay (a lot) less for power than consumers in the residential sector, but because they consume a thousand times more than a home, imagine if the cost for that power is raised even by a tiny increment, and then another increment, and then another, and then it becomes unreliable, and then as a large consumer you’re asked to turn off at times of heavy consumption so that the voters homes don’t go black en masse. Imagine it gets to ‘the straw which broke the camel’s back’. You shut up shop and either go the wall, or go overseas.

      Okay, then, now imagine you are the power company which supplied power to that industrial company. Suddenly, there goes (not a large consumer of electricity now freed up) a large source of income.

      You tell me what happens.

      It could even happen with the closure of one or two of the biggie supermarkets, Coles or Woolies, as their power bills are also close to many many hundreds the times of a residential consumer.

      It may free up some electricity, but its a lost source of huge revenue for them which has to be made up somehow.

      Also, consider just how many of those huge consuming Industrial and Commercial consumers are now gone from Australia, or shut down forever. Even though that huge power consumption has now gone in dribs and drabs over the last ten and more years, the maximum power consumption for the year, the average power consumption for the year, and that average daily minimum (that 18000MW I’m forever harping on about) has barely even moved, and in fact, all of them are now slightly higher, gradually increasing each year. We are given a false impression of overall power consumption, because whatever we lose in huge consumers is made up with slightly increased power consumption. Even with the advent of large ‘lunch time solar’ (love that term, thanks Rick Will I think) the same thing is happening, and in actual fact those middle of the day peaks (in the warmer and Summer Months) are around the same as they always were, and are also creeping up as well.

      Electrical power generation has to come from somewhere, and ‘little bitzers’, wind and solar are not where it’s going to come from.

      Tony.

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      yarpos

      “Which is why Nigeria is third world and Australia and Singapore are not.”

      There is way way more going on than economies of scale to explain why these assorted countries have ended up where they are.

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    pat

    30 Oct: USA Today: Minus 45 degrees in October? An Arctic blast is breaking records across western and central US
    by Doyle Rice
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/30/arctic-cold-blast-breaks-temperatures-october-utah-wyoming-colorado/4098089002/

    found the above among lots of links & temps in Snyder’s piece below:

    31 Oct: ActivistPost: Record Low Temps Up To 50 Degrees Below Normal Threaten To Absolutely Wreck The Rest Of The Harvest Season
    by Michael Snyder
    It isn’t supposed to be this cold in October. The official start of winter is still almost two months away, and yet the weather in much of the western half of the country right now resembles what we might expect in mid-January. All-time record lows for the month of October are being set in city after city, and this extremely cold air is going to push into the Midwest by the end of the week…READ ON
    https://www.activistpost.com/2019/10/record-low-temps-up-to-50-degrees-below-normal-threaten-to-absolutely-wreck-the-rest-of-the-harvest-season.html

    no doubt ABC will find a second or two between the wildfires across north and south California (today’s description on ABC radio) to report the cold!

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    • #
      sophocles

      Some of your (Australia’s) present warm air is heading over the Tasman, over the next several days, aimed mostly at our South Island. Temperatures there will probably be circa 30° C, +/- 5°C — like high 20′s to low 30′s. We will be told all over the Nooz sheets, Telebishun, Radio etc etc, that “It’s a Heat Wave!™” “It’s a sign of Klimate Change!” and ” The End of the World is Nigh! Don’t just stand there! PANIC!©”

      I think we’ll all be too busy dodging the low-flying exclamation marks to do much. Ok, so it looks as though we are going to have a warm-ish November. Whoopy Doo. It’s happened before …

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  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    1 Nov: Border Mail: Opinion split over proposed $120 million solar farm in Laceby
    by Shana Morgan
    A Japanese company wants to build a 70-megawatt solar farm in Laceby, south of Wangaratta, but residents are split over their support for the project…
    https://www.bordermail.com.au/story/6470074/opinion-split-over-proposed-120-million-solar-farm-in-rural-area/

    31 Oct: UK Telegraph editorial: Threatening customers to get smart meters or face higher costs is extraordinary
    There have been some spectacularly botched IT projects in recent years but few match the roll-out of “smart” meters. This is one of the most extensive infrastructure programmes ever seen, on a par with the conversion to North Sea gas in the Seventies. The original aim (set by the EU) was that they should be installed in 80 per cent of homes and small businesses by 2020. After delays and a slow take-up, despite an expensive advertising campaign, the target has been revised to 85 per cent by 2024.

    The theory behind smart meters is sensible enough. People can see better what they are spending on energy and, armed with this information, can cut bills and consumption, thereby helping to reduce carbon emissions…

    The Government initially contemplated making the meters compulsory but thought better of it. But to all intents and purposes they are. The climate change minister Lord Duncan has threatened customers hanging on to “relic” devices to get smart or face high maintenance costs. This would be quite a “significant stick”, he said. What a cheek…
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2019/10/31/threatening-customers-get-smart-meters-face-higher-costs-extraordinary/

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    pat

    31 Oct: CaixinGlobal: China Solar Power Dims Under Reduced State Support
    By Chen Xuewan and Yang Ge
    The addition of solar power to China’s grid plunged 54% in the first nine months of the year compared with a year earlier, as developers cooled to the renewable energy source under a strict, less lucrative new program that’s part of Beijing’s plan to wean the sector from state support.

    Installation of new solar energy totaled 16 gigawatts (GW) in the nine months through September, including just 4.6 GW installed in the third quarter, according to data released by the National Energy Administration (NEA) on Tuesday. In July the NEA had forecast that new solar power installation in China would reach about 40 GW to 45 GW this year…

    Wang said the lower-than-expected installations are related to a new system announced in May and effective July 1. Under that system, solar plants no longer sell electricity to the grid at fixed prices that historically were often higher than those for traditional fossil fuel-generated power to compensate for the higher cost of generating such renewable energy. Instead, such plants must now compete against each other in a bidding system designed to win the grid operator the lowest rates…

    China in particular saw the construction of large amounts of poorly planned solar and wind power farms, with the result that some couldn’t be connected to the grid or produced below their designed capacity…
    Lagging enthusiasm is taking a toll on suppliers of equipment used in construction of solar farms, especially those heavily reliant on the China market.

    Sungrow Power Supply Co. Ltd., the nation’s largest maker of solar inverters, said its profit excluding exceptional items fell 12.2% in the first three quarters, with the company specifically citing the changes in government policy. Changzhou Almaden Co. Ltd. said its revenue fell 37% in the first three quarters, as it also posted a loss for the period…

    More export-reliant manufacturers fared better. One such player, Longi Green Energy Technology Co. Ltd., said it expects its profit to double in the first three quarters of the year, including a rise of more than 263% in the third quarter.
    https://www.caixinglobal.com/2019-10-31/china-solar-power-dims-under-reduced-state-support-101477447.html

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    pat

    31 Oct: Bloomberg: China Likely to Loosen Cap on Foreign Coal as Imports Race Ahead
    Plan to lower power prices makes overseas coal more attractive.
    Bloomberg News With assistance by Feifei Shen
    China’s coal imports are on track to exceed last year’s tally, confounding predictions that the government would cap purchases at 2018’s levels…

    Coal imports in the first nine months have already raced ahead of last year’s levels by 10%, suggesting it’ll be “difficult to have imports at the same level as last year, while a rise is highly possible,” according to Zeng Hao, an analyst at consultancy Fenwei Energy Information Services. The gain is all the more notable given rising domestic supply…

    Australia’s Whitehaven Coal Ltd. said last week that the market is now speculating China may allow up to about 300 million tons of imports this year, from 281 million tons in 2018…
    And China’s plan to lower electricity prices for industrial and commercial users by 10% this year is adding extra impetus to the search for cheaper fuel.
    “Lower coal prices are needed to cut power prices,” said Zhai. “Imported coal has that advantage.”
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-31/china-likely-to-loosen-cap-on-foreign-coal-as-imports-race-ahead

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  • #
    Steve

    I saw the SA scheme and pretty much dismissed it straight away, not because I’m anti solar or anti battery.

    I’ve got 10kW solar on my roof and just recently had a Powerwall 2 installed under AGL’s virtual power plant scheme.

    Devil’s in the details for the SA govt battery scheme, crappy pay off period means its a poor deal, if you’re lucky and nothing goes wrong you’ll barely break even.

    The VPP that AGL is doing should pay off for me within 3-4 years based on my initial calculations, I’ll know with more precision after I’ve got a year of use in situ. Likewise when I got solar it was just before one of the subsidies was about to be discontinued and I got in so the pay off would be 3-4 years due to the very high power costs in SA and a chance to offset our night time usage with lots of feed in during the day.

    Now I’m finding my battery stops charging at 1100-1200 each day as the grid voltage in my local area is above 260v (due to too much solar?) and starts up again late afternoon to top the battery off when the grid voltage falls back down again.

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