JoNova

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Under seige: The Conversation pulls the weak “trust your doctor or Climate God” excuse

Today, for your amusement, Misha Ketchell, ex-ABC journalist, editor and ED of The Conversation scrambles to justify why banning half the population from speaking is not censorship. It’s almost a form of satire, but it’s not that clever.

He pulls out the old Argument from Authority and Ad Hom fallacies, known since Aristotle. He’s only 2,300 years behind the leading edge of rhetoric. Worse, the journalist doesn’t even understand the basics of journalism — as in, to research, present the best of both sides, and let the readers decide. Instead Ketchell, whose top scientific qualification is watching the ABC for twenty years, has decided that climate sensitivity of CO2 on planet Earth is 3.3C give or take nothing.

The biggest scandal of university research and science is there waiting to be told, but Ketchell-the-journo is 100% obedient to a collection of unaccountable foreign committee members who do unaudited work with unvalidated models.

The Conversation

Here come the excuses:

There’s a good reason we’re moderating climate change deniers: uninformed comments undermine expertise’

Real experts just answer the questions, they aren’t scared of the uninformed. Why is it only climate science where we need to protect the public from know-nothing comments? Either the punters are too stupid to spot the expert, or perhaps the fake experts need to be protected from the punters?

This absolutely is about free speech

Just saying it isn’t won’t make it so:

This is not about a denial of free speech. Media outlets have always curated the ways in which they feature audience feedback. Think about the big bags of letters newspaper editors used to sift to pick a dozen or so to publish every day. The skill was always about giving a debate a chance to be aired, to allow all sides to be heard, and then to move on.

But Ketchell isn’t banning misinformation, he’s banning a whole class of people, even “locking their accounts”. That makes it absolutely about “free speech”. Read his words, “deniers are dangerous”. No matter what they say, how well they say it, or how qualified they are, some citizens are the unmentionables who shall have no voice sayth Cardinal Ketchell. It doesn’t get more unfree than a namecalling pogrom with no right of reply.

The Conversation has become the definition of unfree speech. It’s the case study of 2019. The GoTo classic story of censorship for scholars a hundred years from now. The only uncertainty here is if Ketchell has the faintest idea of what free speech is?

Does he just realize he’s banned half of meteorologists?

Say hello to the false equivalence and strawman meme of your doctor versus your untrained friend:

Imagine you discovered you had a serious illness and went to a doctor who recommended an operation. Then you surveyed 10 of your friends about whether they thought you needed an operation. Then, rather than have the operation, you spend the next 10 years, in deteriorating health, every day hearing from your doctor the operation is needed, while a small subset of your mates comment on how the doctor is a nutjob.

What if your friends were engineers, dentists, doctors, PhD’s and Professors? What if your doctor was caught hiding declines, adjusting figures, manipulating reports, using fake photos, and resorted to bluster and coercion? What if he refused to answer questions, explain his methods, hid his data, his history  and just called his critics petty names? Let’s say your doctor was paid handsomely to do risky operations with wildly exaggerated outcomes that failed every basic cost benefit test?

Let’s say their models didn’t predict who got sick, who got well, how many died, and apart from random luck, not much that happened even 10 days in advance?

Misha Ketchell says “don’t ask” just pay the bill, take the drugs — your doctor is practically a God

When we do this to experts of any sort, these uninformed comments undermine their authority. People are less inclined to believe experts when their views are presented alongside hostile opinions. But the two things are not the same; they are entirely different types of information and they don’t deserve equal weight.

The right approach, if you don’t believe your doctor, is to seek a second opinion from another medical expert. And maybe a third or a fourth. And then you make a decision on how to act, based on the evidence.

What if there are other doctors all performing the exact same unnecessary operation, collecting huge fees, being treated like Planet Saving heroes on the ABC and getting nice two week junkets in Bali as well? They are the leading “experts” eh? Who cares that their expertise, status and income is also totally dependent on that type of operation. Complete patsies will ask them, ignore the conflicts of interest, and sign up to have a lung removed to stop their cough.

Which journalist has not done any, as in five minutes of research Misha Ketchell?

He’s out of his depth, like the journo’s who just repeat the sales catalogue of the local real estate agent — the boom is just around the corner! Reality is going to blindside him. He believes in the “thousands” of unnamed expert modelers who don’t even exist. And he believes there is rigor in anonymous unpaid pal review:

In the case of climate science we don’t just have two or three expert opinions, we have thousands. All rigorous and peer reviewed. We also have a range of vested interests who are attempting to discredit that science, following the playbook of big tobacco to profit from casting doubt and delaying action.

Sure, and thousands of commenters on The Conversation get cheques and instructions in the mail from Phillip Morris. Who knew? Or more to the point, who’s got a huge baseless conspiracy theory?

Instead there are 31,500 independent, unpaid, scientists, PhDs and professors who are signed up skeptics (and the rest) but the core group of IPCC paid experts amounts to “scores” — literally. The number of expert reviewers on Chapter Nine of the 4th IPCC report was just 62. Everyone else was a groupie — a scientist who knew a lot about lemurs, or barley crops, or beach erosion who has never ever gone near any analysis of radiative modeling or verification of feedbacks. They just assumed it’s right, and their paid interest depended on “not looking”.

Ketchell talks about “vested interests” but doesn’t realize there are $1.5 trillion in vested interests 100% depending on him (and other un-journalists) to swallow up their prospectus and sell their schemes. Most so-called Big Oil funding goes to alarmists, not skeptics.  Big Oil uses the carbon-hate against its main competitor Big Coal, and panders to EPA whimseys out of fear of offending the bureaucrat rulers it depends on. Woodside oil and gas not only doesn’t fund skeptics it won’t even let one speak at a tiny niche Christmas event for petrophysicists. So much for the myth of Big Oil being a merchant of doubt.

But Deutsche Bank thanks you Misha Ketchell. Bankers want to save the planet dontchaknow?

Spot the totalitarian

Having announced such a cackhanded crackdown, Ketchall is feeling the heat and complaining that he’s being bullied, but who’s the bully here? The one that uses his power arbitrarily to say shut up to tens of thousands of people who partly fund his own job, or the one earning money from voluntary payments who is working to persuade others to stop funding an incompetent publisher?

A few loud media voices have claimed our approach is totalitarian. In an interview with Senator Eric Abetz on Sky News Chris Kenny did what bullies often do – he tried to intimidate and cause maximum damage by asking the Senator to ensure The Conversation never again receives government funding.

Yes, let’s talk intimidation –  and start with “deniers” and “denialists” and let Ketchall define them in scientific terms. What empirical evidence is being denied?  Or are these just pure insults, declaring that anyone who doesn’t agree has the brain of a lizard and is not worth listening to?

As I’d explain to the children in the room, obviously the only point of these hostile demeaning terms is to stop people questioning the religion.

Ketchell is still in denial that half the population just don’t buy the foreign committee report he considers gospel:

The truth is that how to handle the views of the small group who are hostile to climate science is a complex media ethics question…

Remember the “climate election”? Survey’s, polls and millions of votes show the citizens of Australia are not convinced the world is going to hell — the journalists job is to persuade them, the totalitarians job is to shut them up.

Hypocrisy knows no bounds

Misha Ketchell says:

And this means less emotive argument that distorts the evidence.

Jo Nova says: Sure, and calling critics “predators of our children“, or zombies is all calmness and light yeah? Not to mention “great science”. Go “the Con”.

 

A climate-change ideologue,
Fearing comments and free dialogue,
From the skeptical few,
Who challenged his view,
Had them shut down and barred from his blog.

–Ruairi

 

The Conversation
PS: Readers, send in your ideas for the logo. The Conversion needs a new byline.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.5/10 (115 votes cast)
Under seige: The Conversation pulls the weak "trust your doctor or Climate God" excuse, 9.5 out of 10 based on 115 ratings

502 comments to Under seige: The Conversation pulls the weak “trust your doctor or Climate God” excuse

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘ … how to handle the views of the small group who are hostile to climate science …’

    I think he means us.

    300

    • #
      Don B

      Are scientists hostile to science? Published estimates of climate sensitivity keep declining.

      https://notrickszone.com/2017/10/16/recent-co2-climate-sensitivity-estimates-continue-trending-towards-zero/

      130

      • #

        Scientists like me are only hostile to corrupt science.

        340

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          “Do not look at the man behind the screen!!”

          - Wizard of Oz,
          “Wizard of Oz”

          For really *really* good propaganda, you need the Brits, they are masters of it.

          Australians are still second rate and rather clumsy/ham-fisted when it comes to propaganda and propping up their paymasters’ directives…..

          100

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Ot…but….

            Amazing what kids will do to get out off class..

            Braonwashed kiddies….sigh….

            https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-20/school-strike-for-climate-draws-thousands-to-australian-rallies/11531612

            “Organisers in Melbourne said 150,000 people turned out to the protest march there. Victoria Police declined to provide an estimate of crowd numbers.

            “Tens of thousands turned out at The Domain in Sydney for the rally there.

            “They then took to Macquarie Street near the state’s Parliament House, calling for an end to dependence on fossil fuels.

            60

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Interesting take on using children as pawns in the climate wars skirmishes….

            http://catallaxyfiles.com/2019/09/20/c-l-poppets-of-doom/

            “There is tactical purpose behind the global warming cult’s increasing use of female minors as pigtailed propaganda rams. As the screen grab from ABC Online’s lead story of the day demonstrates, this cynical exploitation extends even to the point of celebrating academic failure. Overlaying the late medieval Jeanne D’arc mysticism is the gold-capped condescension of revived nineteenth century sexism. Being girls, their absence from school and – in the case of Siobhan – a mathematics exam, are not as important as they might be for boys. As Vito Corleone counselled, “women and children can afford to be careless, but not men.”

            30

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Yep and theres plenty of corruption to be hostile to.

          70

    • #
      Another Ian

      el gordo

      Doesn’t that actually mean that he’s doing “self analysis”?

      40

    • #
      Michael262

      Science doesn’t work by “letting the readers decide”, otherwise we’d still think the Earth was flat.
      The doctor analogy is apt, mistakes happen, but are eventually corrected, what would you replace modern medicine with, crystals ?
      The science deniers are aptly named, in the face of facts they can’t produce any evidence ( really Jo, the irrelevant Oregon Petition ?) and choose bitterness instead.
      Why can’t the deniers publish something decently reviewed ?.

      322

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Michael:
        we let “the readers decide” in elections, it’s called democracy.

        There are a lot of (misguided) people who believe in the power of crystals, a real belief in medieval (& earlier) times. Strangely they seem concentrated on the Left, the same side as those who believe in
        Global Warming-Climate Change-Climate Disruptionetc. And even medieval people knew the Earth was NOT flat. Although I notice that The Flat Earth Society has issued a statement in favour of Climate Change etc.

        As for publishing something decently reviewed I suggest you go through the back posts of NoTricksZone where various articles list hundreds of reviewed papers disputing the basis of Carbon science.

        190

      • #
        Gee Aye

        I know I know. because the data does not support their claims?

        15

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        ‘Why can’t the deniers publish something decently reviewed ?.’ Last part of G no #’s remark is true and elsewhere there is plenty of published literature showing up faux climate science.
        Michael262, so how do you explain the real data showing absolutely no correlation with CO2 and climate?. Please dont use falsified data that wont cut it!

        200

      • #
        AndyG55

        Science works by EVIDENCE, mickey

        And you have NONE !!!

        150

      • #
        AndyG55

        “they can’t produce any evidence’

        No mickey, it is YOU that is totally DEVOID of real evidence

        140

        • #
          Allen Ford

          Go and have a look at Pat Michaels eviscerating the GW case, Mickey.

          Riveting!

          70

        • #
          Gee Aye

          Poor Andy pandy

          He KNOWS his posts are bordering on the insane

          He KNOWS his posts are of great AMUSEMENT and ASSISTANCE to us realists

          His DESPERATION is bordering on lunacy !

          Keep going please AG

          Keep PROVING that CO2 is TOTALLY trapping heat and threatening all life on Earth.


          [OK. Nice parody Gee, but all commenters -- no more CAPS and petty sneers please. -Jo]

          29

          • #
            el gordo

            As you know its a sensitivity issue, which is why I became excited on learning about vibrating molecules in the atmosphere: CO2, H2O and methane are all greenhouse gases.

            It could be argued that the hiatus in world temperatures eliminates CO2 as a candidate for causing warming, but there is a proviso ….. I’ll get back.

            60

            • #
              el gordo

              …. as I was saying, the PDO has to be in its cool phase to see if H2O is the temperature knob, back to the 1950s.

              http://research.jisao.washington.edu/pdo/pdo_tsplot_jan2017.png

              20

              • #
                Mary E

                And if H2O is the “knob” controlling temperature, what do we do then? Cover all bodies of water with plastic? Make sweating a crime? Banish baths and showers?

                We can all just roll in sand to clean ourselves, eh?

                20

              • #
                el gordo

                Obviously in a contained system we have to deal with the situation as best we can. The two extremes are water world and snowball earth, which we can eliminate from our thinking because neither are relevant on this occasion.

                The idea of a world temperature is bogus, but if we could show that increasing low cloud cover is cooling the planet it would be game, set and match.

                10

          • #
            AndyG55

            GA now LUVS me so much it has gone into full on copy-cat mode.

            No Evidence still.

            No wonder it is SO DESPERATE.

            40

          • #
            Gee Aye

            Parody? What? I’ll try harder to disguise it next time.

            43

      • #
        el gordo

        Michael the peer review system has broken down and clearly you are unaware.

        90

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Michael,

        Can you please tell us what you have against the Oregon Petition?

        I’ve seen that dismissive nonsense, that you again repeat, regularly aired by the alarmists with their characteristic sneer. However, I’ve never seen an analysis of what’s wrong with it. Have you? Would you detail it here so that we can see what it is you don’t like about it?

        On the other hand, I have seen a couple of analyses of the “97% of scientists believe” untruth that the alarmists and extremists push at every turn. It is an indictment of the very people who claim to be scientists. Do you stand by the 97% nonsense?

        120

      • #

        Michael, go right ahead, explain why the Petition Project with 31,500 names is irrelevant.

        It’s an extraordinary achievement that was done by volunteers and done twice. The unskeptical paid acolytes of official climate-dom get millions of dollars but can’t name as many scientists. My point (unlike the believer-side) is not that skeptics are right because they outnumber and outrank you, (which they do) but that the media should be getting the best views from both those who are paid and have a vested interest (the believer team) and those who are experienced independent scientists with impressive track records in other fields and who have nothing to gain by whistleblowing but are doing it anyway.

        270

        • #
          glen Michel

          He’s scarpered !!

          20

        • #
          Michael262

          Jo, in which alternative science universe do the sceptics “outrank” every reputable scientific body on the globe ?. The Petition Project (USA only) barely has a climate related scientist on it, you pull the ‘appeal to authority’ card ?, why would you counter it with an appeal to irrelevant authority ?, try sticking it in a reviewed paper as evidence and hear the laughter.
          Again, the sceptics have failed to provide evidence, hence their’ relegation to the ether spouting bile and conspiracy theories, the scientific method is alive and well.

          16

          • #
            AndyG55

            30,000+ scientists, meteorologists, engineers..

            You know , people who actually DO stuff that works, mickey

            So, have you got any evidence of warming by atmospheric CO2

            … or are you just ranting irrelevancies yet again.?

            You have no knowledge of “the scientific method”, do you mickey.

            Its just something you heard muttered somewhere in the dark bowels of AGW,

            … never to be heard of again.

            30

          • #

            Yes, Michael. It’s like that Semmelweiss guy who thought doctors should wash their hands before delivering babies. Fortunately, the medical establishment opposed this nonsense (germ theory indeed!) and the fellow was beaten to death for his trouble. (A couple of ratbags called Pasteur and Lister later ran with his theory…but there was no Conversation to shut them up back in the day.)

            60

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Hang on! Hang on!

            Who are you trying to fool?

            every reputable scientific body

            Really? They’re all disreputable and unscientific in their scare mongering. You cannot be a “scientific” body and, at the same time, discount the sceptical underpinning fundamental to the scientific method.

            Nevertheless, some of those bodies are starting to see the CAGW nonsense for what it is. For example, the WMO’s secretary-general Petteri Taalas, recently stated that he disagrees with doomsday climate extremists who call for radical action to prevent a purported apocalypse. Did you miss that? Others are following his lead, as the alarmists go full berserk. How many members of the AGU have resigned in disgust at its unscientific and unprofessional pursuit of the catastrophic man-made climate change mantra?

            In terms of the individuals is Al Gore a climate scientist? Is Greta Thunderberg a climate scientist? Is Tim Flannery? Is Rajendra Pachauri? António Guterres? Christiana Figueres? Yvo de Boer? Patricia Espinosa? Dana Nuccitelli? The Prince of Wales? Penny Sackett? John Cook? Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?

            On the other hand, these people are climate scientists, top of their profession and ethically and morally superior to all the gravy-train “scientists” who claim to believe in your ideology:

            Freeman Dyson, Bjorn Lomborg, Myron Ebell, Ivar Giaever, Will Happer, Ian Plimer, Alan Carlin, Patrick Michaels, Peter Ridd, Bob Carter, John Abbott, Jennifer Mahohasy, Nicola Scarfetta, Tony Heller, Tom Quirk, Jaco Vlok, Willie Soon, Sallie Baliunas, Roy Spencer, Murry Salby, Craig Idso, Paul Driessen, John Nichol, Judith Curry, and thousands of others.

            They all have one thing in common.

            Do you know what it is?

            70

            • #
              Michael262

              SS
              “They all have one thing in common.”
              Yes, they are a tiny minority who have failed to get their’ ‘evidence’ to float, that’s not science

              20

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Yes, they are a tiny minority who have failed to get their’ ‘evidence’ to float, that’s not science

                Is there no end to your nonsense? Since when was 31,500 independent, unpaid, scientists, PhDs and professors a tiny minority?

                What’s the size of your denominator? You need 1,050,000 actual names of independent, unpaid, scientists, PhDs and professors to win the argument. Get them and I’ll concede.

                That’s the problem with extremists and alarmists – they can’t do numbers.

                10

              • #
                Michael262

                SS,
                I was referring to YOUR list. OK, you want to add the weak Petition, a list that anyone with ANY science degree can sign up to, with barely a climate scientist present?.
                You could use the same list to petition against vaccination – equally irrelevant, there being little medical expertise on it.
                Expressing doubt is not a numbers game ( again, your ‘appeal to authority fallacy’), for you to “win the argument” you’d have to actually produce evidence in the real world.
                The Conservation wants to mute you because you can’t do science.

                00

          • #
            Serge Wright

            You’re missing the point on climate science !!!.

            The two debates the TC wants to stop are the ones regarding climate uncertainty and RE viability. Regarding climate uncertainty, the last IPCC report suggested an absurdly wide climate equalibrium value for ECS of between 1.5 and 4.5 degrees C, which in laymans speak is “we don’t know”. In more recent times a very comprehensive study by Lewis and Curry that used historical temperature data, suggests a low value of ECS close to 1.5 and that assumes all warming after 1880 is from AGW, which we know is not the case. Despite this huge uncertainty and evidence that suggests a low and harmless ECS, the TC wants to shut down all discussion that doesn’t conform to its doomsday climate cult. Even a mention of Judith Curry or Roy Spencer, both among the most highly qualified scientists in the field, will get you banned.

            On the topic of RE, any mention that it’s unreliable, more expensive or doesn’t work, will get you banned. I know because I was banned for pointing out the obvious. In fact the truth is so obvious and backed up so well by facts that it doesn’t work, because no country has been able to make it work after more than 20 years of trying. The only proven outcomes are vastly higher bills and grid stability as we see in SA.

            So, here we are watching the TC along with their university conscripts carry out the most absurd and dangerous propaganda exercise in our history. And just to prove this is all about socialism, our universities now ban teachings on western civilisation and replace it with hate speech.

            So, when you post at TC tomorrow with all of your green buddies, just remember that every cent of that money, donated by taxpayers comes from capitalism and fossil fuels, because only debt comes from RE and socialism.

            00

        • #
          Vishnu

          Jo – as an anthropogenic climate change agreer (didn’t want to say believer!), someone who considers AGW to be a possible long term threat, renewable cynical and pro-nuclear, without being obsequious may I say that I don’t agree with you on many things but your call on climate emergency is correct, Global Climate Picnic Day is correct, and the Conversation now sucks. And yes Pitman did say it. If Extinction Rebellion were serious they’d be up in northern Australia armed to the teeth blazing away at feral cats and helping better fence off the Artesian Range from toads. And helping to reduce summer season hot savannah fires. Anyway not sure why the populace can’t see it – some form of mass illusion, a predilection for the apocalyptic and zombie memes, but also they believe they are morally correct. Virtuous corruption.

          Your blog has now caused me to be labelled as a denier among colleagues. Your fault https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTUQyEr-sg0
          I now have to march at the rear on demonstrations :-)

          00

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Science doesn’t work by “letting the readers decide”… So it works by letting school children go on strike and idiots glue themselves to the road?
        OR work by saying the ‘science is settled’ which is a totally un-scientific statement. No science is ‘settled’ certainly not by ‘consensus’.
        “It only take one of you to prove me wrong”, in the case of AGW it has already been proved wrong by numerous data sources and several hundred honest scientists in the field.

        150

      • #
        James Poulos

        Michael,

        I agree the Doctor analogy is apt…

        …and any doctor that made that many mistakes is normally struck off.

        40

      • #
        Phoenix44

        Once again, somebody claiming to defend science gets it totally wrong. We don’t have to provide evidence, you do. The people advancing an hypothesis have to prove it. As for doctors, if they keep doing something and people get better, they are right. If the same doctors keep doing something and people don’t get better they are wrong. It has nothing to do with them being doctors whether people get better.

        If climate scientists keep making predictions that don’t happen, they are wrong. Doesn’t matter if they are the cleverest people in the world.

        100

        • #
          James Poulos

          Bang on Phoenix,

          It’s the Null Hypothesis vs Alternative Hypothesis.

          So far the Null Hypothesis has about 4 billion years of cred’ while the other inevitably follows a 16 year old with poor social skills down a path of mass self harm because there is nothing left to live for.

          20

      • #
        Raven

        Michael262,

        Here’s where the doctor analogy fails:

        Doctors make recommendations based on research of thousands of patients.

        Climate science relies on ‘expert’ opinion when considering a single solitary patient (the Earth).

        40

    • #
      Phoenix44

      I’m “hostile” to all science! I don’t believe any of it until it’s been proven time and time again, and even then only conditionally – it could be disproven at any time.

      I thought that’s how science was supposed to work?

      70

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    There are three sides to every conversation.

    1. The truth – coherent with what is.
    2. The false – contradictory to what is.
    3. The arbitrary – has no connection to what is and is not even false.

    We might have to invent a new category for The Conversation. How about “none of the above.” It doesn’t matter if it is true, false, or arbitrary. They have spoken. They believe it. That settles it for all times, all places, and all professions. To call it a religion gives religion a very undeserved bad name. After all, religion was man’s first attempt to explain the universe. Not necessarily a good or coherent one but it was a start.

    281

  • #
    Graeme#4

    Huge bunfight on this topic over on The Australian the last 24 hours. The Getup idiots are out in force.

    180

  • #
    Brian

    Add the Financial Times and the Times of London to the list. I was recently banned from both after someone complained of “misinformation” on my part.

    170

  • #
    Carp

    “All rigorous and peer reviewed”

    I groan when I read “peer review”. It just means “guaranteed not to rock the boat”.

    180

    • #
      Gerry, England

      Given some of the crap that has passed peer review you might think people might be more aware that it is anything but a reliable check. Climate ‘science’ specialises in pal review where just a small group review all the work and have all worked together at some point. Donna Laframboise pointed out that the IPCC reports contain non-peer reviewed stuff – mostly activist propaganda like the Himalayan glaciers are all melting bit. In the excellent book The Deniers, having found lots of highly qualified and respected scientists did not agree with global warming, the author found a core of around 12 who produced the IPCC reports and had achieved nothing of note in real life. Deniers had won Nobel prizes and had guided proper science with their work.

      As for the doctor strawman – how many times do the so called experts get it wrong? Thalidomide anyone?

      190

      • #
        Bobl

        There is a basic misunderstanding of peer review as being part of the scientific method, it’s not. It’s part of the oh listing process and replaces scholarly review with what usually amounts to a cursory check of content, spelling and occasionally arithmetic. The topic of the paper is never properly validated or replicated in peer review.

        What’s important in the scientific method with regard to independent review is ONLY replication. Peer review is merely a technical proof reading before publication. Scholarly (editorial panel) review is probably much better than peer review because the independence of the editorial panel can be verified.

        180

      • #
        Another Ian

        Ansel Keys anyone?

        50

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Yes so true. Dont upset the establishment. I have a book by an astrophysicist how he described he couldnt get his work (observations) published in some journals solely because it upset the standard paradigm. Its the ‘we dont want actual data that disagrees with our theory’ problem.

      50

  • #
    TdeF

    It’s interesting that people who understand nothing are incredibly desperate to agree with other people, regardless of what they see around them. This is groupthink or herd instinct, circle the wagons, the barbarians are at the door response to anyone who doubts what is said.

    The ABC or the Conversation could easily list the many disasters that man made Global Warming predicted in the last 31 years. There are hundreds of incredible failed predictions, even thousands. Remember the ABC’s own Science guy Robyn Williams who said a sea rise of 100 metres in 100 years was reasonable, a decade ago. You would have seen it by now. And which of these terrible predictions actually came true? Any? No.

    The core problem in banning ‘sceptics’ is that all scientists are skeptics. I also remember a time when the best journalists were also sceptics, when they required corroboration of the facts from
    a trusted source before they repeated anything, when they automatically doubted everything they were told. Getting quality verification was essential to run with a story.

    In the modern world, as the attacks on Russian collusion with Trump and the attacks on Justice Kavanagh have shown, there is nothing modern journalists will not publish, no matter how lacking in any evidence. It is why the ABC/NBC/CNN are burning viewers. Today you cannot believe anything you are told by the media.

    So the next group the ABC will need to ban are all the sceptic viewers. But sadly there is no need as they switched off long ago, not that anyone cares because it’s their ABC; their Age;their Sydney Morning Herald and the mother of them all, their New York Times. And they will all be unemployed soon because they are no longer professionals, not even hacks. Really, who pays to be told lies?

    Consider there are only two genders. That’s established unquestionable science, the double helix, chromosones, DNA and what journalist would print that today? No one on their ABC.

    They have lost their way. Sell the lot. Tell them to get real jobs in a profession where you do not believe everything you are told, which is every other profession.

    430

    • #
      a happy little debunker

      Of course there are only 2 primary genders – innies and outties, except for the intensely rare bi-gendered individuals, who have both!

      Just because you think your outtie is an innnie – doesn’t make it an innie, that would be a mental health issue – where we all know your issue over your health is mental!

      150

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        On that I heard a psychologist (woman for that matter) say that people have either XX or XY chromosomes and thats it! you cant have both! So you are either male or female.

        80

        • #
          TdeF

          There are oddities like XXY which make track meets hard. Sometimes hermaphrodites. The most famous is Jamie Lee Curtis. Track athletes like the South African runner Caster Semenya. However the new 100 types of human gender are defined by choice and pushed by the BBC and teachers in England. It is made up science by the left of politics, an issue which never existed and another case of oppression. You too can be a minority, a victim of oppression. You just have to invent your own gender.

          70

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Hi TRU,
          While the sex of a baby is determined at conception
          every newly conceived phoetus starts its journey as a female.
          Over the nine months in the womb various critical points are met where various aspects of the growing baby are dealt with. An example might be where the physical form of the phoetus has to be switched to produce a male structure and appropriate internals and externals.
          Should this transition be stopped or interrupted the growing baby might be left with a female or part female body. Later processing may see the brain transition to male go O.K. leaving the baby with an essentially female form and the original intended male brain.
          Through similar interruptions a male body, as intended, may end up with a female untransformed brain.

          Then if these people reproduce there will be next level problems.

          The transformation points can be stopped by external events overriding the mothers system and may be due to such agents as induced fear/anxiety or alcohol being taken at the critical time.

          Overlaid is the fact that we already see a range of masculine and feminine attributes even in the unaffected population.

          Complex, but as mentioned previously this understanding was a follow on to the post world war two discovery of the origin of type 2 diabetes.

          Every time I see that LGBIQTR rubbish I want to throw up.

          The story is there but you can get more power and votes by letting people remain ignorant of the nature and cause of their pain.

          KK

          50

          • #
            theRealUniverse

            So does it affect hormone levels too KK?
            ‘Overlaid is the fact that we already see a range of masculine and feminine attributes even in the unaffected population.’

            20

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              That I don’t know because you can never be sure how much of any scheduled stage is damaged.
              To my way of thinking the inclusion of women in sporting events who have come from a gender reassignment is fraught with problems relating to your question.

              We’ve all read about people who later in life have an X Ray and find inoperative remnant structures of the “other” sex sitting inside.

              Each case is different.

              People affected are not that way by choice and the condemnation by “the church” shows appalling ignorance of the mechanism at work.

              KK

              40

          • #
            Phoenix44

            Such problems are very rare though.

            10

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      “every other profession”.

      Other?

      Can modern journalism really be seen as a profession?

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      • #
        TdeF

        Not ‘modern’ journalism. I knew this from Michelle Grattan in Melbourne’s Age. She wrote her opinions presented as news. Fact free nonsense. Then she retired and went off to teach journalism. In fact we now suffer teenage ‘journalists’ on news sites like http://www.news.com.au. They lecture our Prime Minister and Donald Trump and Boris Johnson on what they are doing wrong. Journalism is dead. Aptly named Twitter has replaced it.

        150

        • #
          destroyer D69

          I have the considered opinion that,Twitter is what the paper on the bottom of the budgie cage is there to collect. generally speaking,

          80

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Opinions presented as news are common place now. Its how you get the propaganda out, subtly disguised as ‘news’. I agree with the Twitter comments. I think Twitter can also be a double edged sword.

          20

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I heard someone muttering about modern journalism being the oldest profession in the world, I said it was the 2nd oldest…but not by much……

        ( Actually, hunting is the oldest profession, but you get the idea….)

        50

      • #
        Senex

        The world’s oldest profession – presstitution

        40

      • #
        Mal

        Modern journalism has degenerated to opinon peices that are then echoedc around the world through various media outlets

        10

    • #
      Bobl

      Let me tell you what I predicted…
      Dead grannies and babies from fuel poverty in winter … check
      Dead poor black people from lack of clean coal energy… check
      People starving as food aid is diverted to ethanol production… check
      Cancer patients waiting for cures delayed by diversion of research funds into global warming subsidies … check.
      High priced unreliable electricity … check
      Grid collapse… check.
      House fires… check.

      No misses in that lot.

      220

  • #
    Serge Wright

    “Imagine you discovered you had a serious illness and went to a doctor who recommended an operation. Then you surveyed 10 of your friends…”

    Except that’s not the analogy relating to CC science. Let me fix it for him :)

    ” Imagine that you went to the doctor for a routine checkup feeling healthier than at any time in your entire life and yet without performing any tests the doctor opens his computor and tells you that based on his new medical model, you had a terminal disease and will die by 2030 unles you do the following: Join the greens movement, engage in violent anti-capitalist protest, begin preeching that the world is ending, hate white people, worship a strange autistic girl in Sweden, glue yourself to the nearest roadway, violently demand that we remove 1% of global CO2 to save the world, and remove your children from school each week to particiapte in the same rituals. And, after you dare question the diagnosis and treatment plan, he then sternly advises that 97% of all doctors agree with the new computor model testing and for questioning his authority you get banned from entering his practice until you repent and agree to the treatment plan”

    After leaving the surgery you find out that the doctor has started a large blog site and where comment is only open to his converted disciples. You make sure to block this site on your firewall settings in case it’s contagious ;)

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    • #
      MudCrab

      Worse than that Serge.

      Imagine you were at home feeling happy and healthy with all the big things going right for you in your life and a doctor you had never heard of before pops up in your email telling you, personally, are 97% likely to be suffering from something you vaguely remember as being told was impossible and that in order to prevent it you are going to have to have a leg cut off.

      (which leg is up to you, because, democracy)

      When you ask, What The…? You are told that Gretaphobia has been demonstrated correct based off this spread sheet (which you wouldn’t understand so you can’t actually look at) and that your doctor friends don’t count because they are only surgeons and not GretaDoctors but don’t worry as there is a new industry for robot legs. You wont be able to play sport, ride a bike, drive a car, drink alcohol or vote conservative with these new legs, and you will have to pay a monthly fee, but it is better than getting Gretaphobia.

      Then you say, “you know I think I can deal with a bit of phobia of Greta” and they call you a fascist and threaten to have you sacked from your job, have your house impounded and your children forced to plait their hair.

      I mean we can go on with the mocking parts of the comparison, but in context of the analogy that is trying to be forced down our throat, we are not going to OUR doctor, a doctor we have never met before is coming to us.

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      • #
        Terry

        A doctor that doesn’t subscribe to basic hygiene, has a suspicious history of dead patients, that is suspected of not being a qualified doctor at all, but since they go by the title “Dr” (in perfect alignment with modern “credentialism” over actual knowledge and skill) demands regular and unlimited access to your Medicare Card (plus a gap fee, because Mercs and accompanying golf clubs aren’t cheap you know).

        I like your analogy.

        40

  • #
    Serp

    Good effort Jo.

    Mind you Misha Ketchell won’t be pursuing your links or trying to comprehend how you’ve shown he’s in error –more likely he’ll be petitioning to have you silenced.

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  • #
    Kalm Keith

    Another brilliant expose on modern Sociopathy.

    Recognising the detail of the problem is the hardest part of realising the solution.

    We have most of the detail here.

    Where to go next bearing in mind the enormous inertia of the Greta linked global warming meme.

    KK

    100

  • #
    joseph

    When did the idea that anthropogenic carbon dioxide would be the cause of a climate disaster first appear in the mainstream media?

    70

    • #
      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Actually Bryson said (my bold)
        In 1973, Bryson testified to Congress that global warming from fossil-fuel combustion was politically unstoppable. There is no way right now that we can control the climate to make it more benign. Even if we were to say “let us stop using fossil fuels so that we do not add carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, because that impacts the world climate,” how on earth could you stop using fossil fuels? Even those countries that are most heavily impacted by the climatic change are the ones who say it is our turn to be affluent and it is in the use of fossil fuels that one gains affluence.

        In later years Bryson argued that while climate change and a global increase in temperature are real, he did not believe that they are caused by human activity. Rather, he argued that they are part of natural global climate cycles, particularly the end of the Little Ice Age:

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  • #
    a happy little debunker

    The Conversation has a point – the deniers continue to use all the ‘same old boring arguments’.

    Arguments like the millions of weather balloons, radio sonde measurements and satellite data that do not indicate a significantly worsening problem.

    When the science demonstrated the models are wrong – believe all the pretty things.

    Science because it is pretty!

    180

  • #
    Deplorable Lord Kek

    Censorship means we are winning; they censor out of fear.

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  • #

    “Curate” really has shot to the top of the list of weasel words. Next time you cut the head off a fish, then scale and gut…don’t forget to say you “curated” the fish.

    Of course, when you’ve got 2.6 million years of Quaternary and 12 thousand years of Holocene to keep from public view, you really need to go big on curation.
    https://www.dur.ac.uk/geography/nequa/what_is_the_quaternary/

    I suppose having Mishkins curate with his “academic rigour and journalistic flair” is a lot kinder than arresting thousands of geologists, geographers, oceanographers, stratigraphers, speleologists, archaeologists and historians. Mind you, if Mish and his cohorts get in touch with their inner Chekist, it might come to arrests. Must protect those kiddies from the horrors of natural history!

    180

    • #
      Annie

      Thanks for the wry laugh Mosomoso; I have felt like having a whinge about this sudden overuse of curate! We are still being afflicted with icon and iconic too…yuk.
      I am utterly disgusted by the attitude of The Conversation; a tedious, obsessive, thoroughly unwarrented monologue; far from a genuine conversation.

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      • #
        Ted O’Brien.

        Seems you haven’t posted on TC much Annie. If you had you would have been disgusted years ago.
        They publish a bit of useful stuff, but stand condemned by what they refuse to publish.

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      • #
        Another Ian

        Annie

        “I am utterly disgusted by the attitude of The Conversation; a tedious, obsessive, thoroughly unwarrented monologue; far from a genuine conversation.”

        Just another attempt at reversing a meaning

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  • #
    Ruairi

    A climate-change ideologue,
    Fearing comments and free dialogue,
    From the skeptical few,
    Who challenged his view,
    Had them shut down and barred from his blog.

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Mind you the BBC and the Guardian, also are moving toward or have adopted similar policies.

    140

    • #
      AndyG55

      Yep, like you, they KNOW they cannot support the absence of science behind the AGW farce.

      So, like you, they just slither away to avoid answering questions.

      130

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Does that mean that they’re right, in your view Peter?

      Do you support their position?

      90

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Sam, it is a free country, and there is no law preventing them from taking this decision. Note: this is not about truth, or balance, it is the way Facebook and google operate. I do not support any tactic that hides a fair representation of all views, it is, and always should be, up to the reader to form their own opinion, and that can not be done on when some comments are suppressed.
      Finally, these are ‘below the fold’ comments, and are a very new way of interacting with a publication. They are much more liberal the getting published on the old “letters to the editor” section.

      20

      • #
        AndyG55

        Sorry, PF, but you are WRONG AGAIN

        They receive government funding.

        It should be open to all.

        If they want a little safe enclave, let them fund it themselves.

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          So what, they . have editorial freedom, which is not common in the Murdoch stable as an example

          21

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘ … not common in the Murdoch stable …’

            They are fair and balanced with their news, but of course their opinion is more centre right. You will note that Speers is leaving Sky and going to the ABC as an anchor on Sunday morning.

            I can say for a fact that the editors and journalists of the Murdocracy have a free hand in editorial content.

            50

          • #
            AndyG55

            What a load of distractionary nonsense from PF.

            If they want a little safe enclave, let them fund it themselves.

            Why should taxpayers continue to fund the CONversation?

            And NO, they DO NOT have editorial freedom.

            They MUST follow the far-left agenda, or get sacked.

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Dont worry PF, then no-one will read the Britsh BS Corporation’s propaganda anymore or the Guardian. THey will just go get real information from reliable sources.

      50

  • #
    Boambee John

    Jo

    On the subject of the “Doctor is God” fallacy, you might wish to research the numbers of deaths and injuries caused annually in Australia by medical errors(not deliberate malpractice, just simple human error).

    130

  • #
    Sean

    Well since The Conversation is clearly over, what should a new more appropriate name be? My top three choices are, “The Lecture”, “The Sermon” and my favorite “The Narrative”.

    180

  • #

    Thanks Jo,
    No more journalists like Richard Carleton who would do his research and really put politicians and others under the blowtorch. We now have Misha and co who cannot even be bothered to attempt to understand the science and emulate the Soviet Union with its ham fisted attempts to control what people saw and heard…

    I do hope Eric Abetz cuts off any govt funding to these idiots. If people privately want to fund it then go ahead, its a free country…

    180

  • #
  • #
    TdeF

    Really, regardless of opinions, how can a public service group like the ABC tell half the population of Australia that they are not welcome, that it is a closed opinion conversation and any dissension, any divergence from the approved opinions and you can go and start your own multi media centre.

    So the ABC is an exclusive club funded by public money. It is only for the people who agree with each other and the rest, the deplorables, the deluded conservatives are ignorant peasants who do not deserve air time. Beneath contempt.

    Keep going ABC. You are writing your own epitaph.

    180

    • #
    • #
      Another Ian

      Interesting bit on that “ABC public service” heard in Ray Hadley when the Qld fires were hitting their straps.

      Both he and Allan Jones had called Qld Fire and Rescue for updates, Allan at around 5:30 am, with no reply by the time Ray called.

      The response Ray got was that QF&R had an exclusive line to the ABC on that.

      The response was that they’d better get out of their bubble, as 4BC had a much wider audience than the ABC in the Brisbane area.

      I mentioned to a friend that I’d given up the ABC and, in our rural coverage choice, was listening to “ads and Allan”.

      His reply was “You and many, many, others”

      110

      • #
        TdeF

        Exactly. The original concept was an Australia wide media, reaching every little town and farm and station. That worked very well. Now the internet does it and the ABC have moved to Sydney and could care less about the bush. Like non bias, it is up to the government to bring the ABC to heel and the ABC knows they can target people who question them. Tony Abbot, ‘Joker’ Hockey to his face, John Howard. The ABC has metastasized into a monster and the only certain thing is that they want more of our money to do as they like.

        60

  • #
    Barry Woods

    - The Nonversation -

    180

  • #
    Dave in the States

    Ironically, those among the most qualified, with the most experience, and the most informed, are the leading skeptical scientists.

    The alarmists ranks are filled largely with the young and inexperienced, and often with little to no proper qualifications. Among those are often the epitomes of incompetency; the government employee and the public schools personal.

    110

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Dr. Paul Ehrlich was ALMOST right when he said in 1969 -
      “unless we are extremely lucky, everybody will disappear in a cloud of blue steam in 20 years”

      Obviously only brains have been affected and only in some people (check The Conversation for names).

      40

  • #
    Rick Bradford

    The “progressive” types always do the same thing.

    They take a theory (‘world faces disaster from AGW‘) and immediately raise it to the level of a fact.

    Then they take the “fact” and elevate it to the status of ‘sacred’, something that are not allowed to be challenged in any way whatever.

    That’s how you behave when you prioritize your agenda over the truth, as part of an ideological power struggle.

    90

  • #
    Sceptical Sam

    The one that uses his power arbitrarily to say shut up to tens of thousands of people who partly fund his own job, or the one earning money from voluntary payments who is working to persuade others to stop funding an incompetent publisher?

    Spot on Jo.

    Here’s $50 to help you do what you do so well.

    Forget the logo sceptics, write a cheque to Jo instead.

    210

  • #
    tom0mason

    “Readers, send in your ideas for the logo. The Conversion needs a new byline.”

    Their New Image should be https://smallmagicollector.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/dsc00680-medium.jpg

    And the byline is “Shut up, Read and BELIEVE!”

    :-)

    90

    • #
      Salome

      It needs a new name. What about ‘The Monologue’, or ‘The Echo Chamber’?

      30

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Theres a good one from
      http://catallaxyfiles.com/2019/09/19/the-scholastic-monologue-solipsist/
      Look up ‘solipsist’.
      He quotes
      “When I looked the word up on Google, there was a further link which asked whether solipsism is a mental disorder. Whatever they say, if someone says that climate change is the most important issue in the world but doesn’t any longer wish to discuss it with anyone else, even if the policies that lead from their beliefs lead to massive harm to millions of others as we abandon proven forms of energy production, then solipsism is a mental disorder, related to narcissism and a disgusting lack of care for anyone else but themselves.”

      Rather appropriate I think.

      there was another link somewhere on here to catallaxyfiles

      40

  • #
    neil

    Ketchell’s understanding of public opinion is so ABC, a small group of people talking amongst themselves, having their ideas and beliefs reinforced by the same few people over and over until they believe they are the majority because they never hear an alternate opinion.

    They become so empowered by their self righteous view of their world they belittle and dismiss “non-believers” because only they can see the righteous way, only they can save us from ourselves.

    90

  • #
    pat

    Jo -

    it seems auto-correct might have infected Misha’s surname, KETCHELL. 3 instances noted:

    Spot the totalitarian
    Having announced such a cackhanded crackdown, Kendall (KETCHELL) is feeling the heat

    Yes, let’s talk intimidation – and start with “deniers” and “denialists” and let Kendall (KETCHELL)

    Hypocrisy knows no bounds
    Misha Kenchell (KETCHELL) says

    Thanks Pat! I’m so grateful for the proofing… – Jo

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    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Also –
      “He’s out of his depth, like the journo’s who just repeat…”

      No apostrophe required for journos as it’s merely the plural of journo –
      • apostrophes for missing letters, ie. it’s for it is, or showing possession, ie. journo’s sociopathic paranoia).

      20

  • #
    Bobl

    In medicine the same biases play out

    In many cases the best of the 97% only get there because they stick to the orthodoxy and subsequently don’t take difficult surgeries, the scan shows a difficult case and the brain tumor stays, the patient dies on cue just like the book says they will, those surgeons only do the Dorothy dixers of surgery guaranteeing them the best success rates and ironically the highest fees.

    So our editor is wrong, if you want to survive you need a doctor in the three percent, one willing to split that millimetre, to risk their perfect success rate, even break the odd rule/orthodoxy, to try when the scan says it’s almost impossible, in order to save the patient. These doctors sometimes have poor success rates because of the difficulty of the surgeries they perform, but they save many of those cases the 97% call hopeless.

    In medicine sometimes you DO have to choose between orthodoxy or survival. When all the orthodox answers fail it’ll be someone in the 3%, the unorthodox that will save your life.

    This is the way medicine actually is, it’s riddled with fake or disproven orthodoxies and grouothink (eg. Cholesterol, Benzoate sunscreens that cause cancer, carb good/fat bad, any number of fake associations with cancer, the no threshold radiation damage theory) 97% of doctors probably still prescribe statins despite cholesterol being proven unrelated to heart disease. 97% of doctors probably still prescribe low fat high carb diets when carbs, especially sugar ARE the real problem. Medicine is no shining example of freedom from grouothink.

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    • #
      Peter C

      Spot on bobl

      And that is just the Art of Medicine, as practised. Medical science is a whole extra dimension, akin to Climate Science.
      Then we have the President of the AMA, Dr Tony Bartone, who recently declared a Climate Health emergency and called for government action. The minister for Health wisely refrained from shifting half the hospital budget to fight Climate Change.

      60

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      One of the worst is the hiding that the GcMAF protein, we have naturally, kills cancer cells. Published papers prove that this protein when administered can cure most cancers. Chemotherapy is poison.

      31

  • #
    pat

    right now, these two journalists are on Sky News Australia’s “Front Page” with Peter Gleeson:

    LinkedIn: Lucy Hughes Jones, Court Reporter at The Daily Telegraph
    Jul 2018 – Present
    https://au.linkedin.com/in/lucy-hughes-jones-213932b2

    Twitter: Andrew Potts, The Gold Coast Bulletin/Gold Coast Sun Council and political Reporter/history columnist
    https://twitter.com/gcs_pottsy

    at the beginning of the show, the “climate” strike/protest and a front page (SMH maybe?) with headline about the massive cost of “climate change” were discussed. heard a figure of $28 billion being mentioned, from memory. I wasn’t paying attention.

    Lucy said she would be going to the protest and she understood why young people would be worried because climate change wasn’t in the future, it was here already. for people in the outback, drought and bushfires were the evidence of that.

    Andrew piped up – same goes for the Gold Coast.

    Gleeson seemed to mumble in agreement.

    pathetic.

    90

  • #
    pat

    Guardian thinks its readers are idiots:

    19 Sept: Guardian: Climate crisis seen as ‘most important issue’ by public, poll shows
    Eight-country poll shows people view climate crisis as priority over migration and terrorism
    by Matthew Taylor
    A majority of the public recognise the climate crisis as an “emergency” and say politicians are failing to tackle the problem, backing the interests of big oil over the wellbeing of ordinary people, according to an eight-country poll.
    The survey, which comes before what is expected to be the world’s biggest climate demonstrations on Friday, found that climate breakdown is viewed as the most important issue facing the world, ahead of migration, terrorism and the global economy, in seven out of the eight countries surveyed. In the US it comes third behind terrorism and affordable healthcare.

    ***Nick Lowles, from UK-based anti-racism group Hope not Hate, which commissioned the survey, said the findings showed that the public were “way ahead” of politicians in recognising the scale of the climate crisis…
    The results will put pressure on world leaders gathering for the climate action summit in New York next week…
    Laurence Tubiana, the CEO of the European Climate Foundation, said the findings in the poll underlined the growing support for immediate radical action…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/18/climate-crisis-seen-as-most-important-issue-by-public-poll-shows

    ***Wikipedia: Hope not Hate is an advocacy group based in the United Kingdom. It campaigns against racism and fascism, and seeks to “combine first class research with community organising and grassroots actions to defeat hate groups at elections and to build community resilience against extremism”…
    The group was founded in 2004 by Nick Lowles, a former editor of anti-fascist magazine Searchlight (from which it split in late 2011). It is backed by various politicians and celebrities, and has been backed by several trade unions…
    Before that, (Lowles) was a freelance investigative journalist, working in television, including on BBC Panorama, World in Action, Channel Four Dispatches and MacIntyre Undercover…
    HNH is funded by parochial money, charitable trusts, trade union funding and individual donations…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_not_Hate

    40

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      ‘Eight-country poll shows people view climate crisis as priority over migration and terrorism’ Other polls have shown the opposite. Sounds like more disinformation propaganda.

      30

  • #
    pat

    and children will march in the streets for them!

    19 Sept: AP: Big money urges governments to tackle climate change
    By FRANK JORDANS
    A group of more than 500 major institutional investors called Thursday for governments to boost efforts to tackle climate change, warning that failure could have serious economic consequences.
    The banks, insurance companies and pension funds said in a joint statement ahead of next week’s U.N. climate summit in New York that current national commitments could lead to an “unacceptably high temperature increase that would cause substantial negative economic impacts.”
    The group includes financial giants such as France’s Amundi, which manages 1.487 trillion euros ($1.64 trillion); Canada-based Manulife; and Insight Investment in the United States…

    But the investment firms, which together say they manage $35 trillion in assets, cited a gap between the modest steps pledged by governments — which in themselves fall short of what’s needed to meet the Paris goals — and actual measures taken so far.
    “This ambition gap is of great concern to investors and needs to be addressed, with urgency,” the companies said. “It is vital for our long-term planning and asset allocation decisions that governments work closely with investors to incorporate Paris-aligned climate scenarios into their policy frameworks and energy transition pathways.”
    The investors want governments to speed up the shift from fossil fuels to renewable energy, back rules requiring companies to report climate-related information in their financial statements and put a meaningful price on carbon emissions…ETC
    https://www.apnews.com/8bcebf4630584234b45654ac26374d2c

    31

    • #
      Mary E

      But the investment firms, which together say they manage $35 trillion in assets, cited a gap between the modest steps pledged by governments — which in themselves fall short of what’s needed to meet the Paris goals — and actual measures taken so far.

      So the investor groups can make up the shortfall, yes? If they know that the funding is vital to their long-term decisions, then they can invest in the energy transitions. Oh, wait – the people who are sending money to the investment firms, and depositing their pay into banks, are they as certain?

      If the polls are correct, then it is a no-brainer. Let the money handlers put up. Or shut up.

      00

  • #
    pat

    19 Sept: Reuters: China plans 226 GW of new coal power projects: environmental groups
    by David Stanway
    China’s total planned coal-fired power projects now stand at 226.2 gigawatts (GW), the highest in the world and more than twice the amount of new capacity on the books in India, according to data published by environmental groups on Thursday.
    The projects approved by China amount to nearly 40% of the world’s total planned coal-fired power plants, according to the Global Coal Exit List database run by German environmental organization Urgewald and 30 other partner organizations.

    The new China projects would be more than Germany’s existing installed power capacity of around 200 GW by the end of 2018.
    The environmental groups said in a press release on Thursday that worldwide 400 of the 746 companies in their database were still planning to expand their coal operations.
    The companies include miners and power generators, and account for 89% of the world’s thermal coal production and nearly 87% of the world’s installed coal-fired power capacity.

    Of the total, 161 are Chinese. China, the world’s biggest emitter of greenhouse gases, will be the focus of attention at next week’s United Nations summit on climate action in New York, with Beijing promising more ambition when it comes to tackling global warming…

    China had 1,020 GW of coal-fired power by the end of July, amounting to 55% of its total installed capacity. A Chinese industry group has suggested total capacity could eventually settle at 1,300 GW.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-china-coal/china-plans-226-gw-of-new-coal-power-projects-environmental-groups-idUSKBN1W40HS

    reminder – posted on Jo’s previous “Conversation” thread:

    17 Sept: Financial Times: Leading countries blocked from speaking at UN climate summit
    Secretary-general takes tough line on select coal-supporting nations
    by Leslie Hook in London
    Leading economies such as Japan and Australia will not be invited to speak at next week’s crunch UN climate change summit, as their continued support for coal clashes with the demands of the organisation’s secretary-general as he sounds the alarm on climate change…
    However the summit is notable for those that will not appear: a number of countries building new coal power stations such as Japan, South Korea and South Africa will not take the stage…
    ***However some coal-loving countries such as CHINA and India, the world’s two biggest builders of new coal stations, will still speak at the summit, according to the draft agenda…

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      Again the fact that they quote 226.2GW of new coal fired power gets lost in the number quoted.

      That NEW power, so not existing, but yet to be constructed , comes in at the total Nameplate existing in Australia already ….. MULTIPLIED BY TEN.

      Or ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTEEN new Liddells.

      Tony.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        Just like you never ever mention the capacity that has been retired

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        • #
          Bill in Oz

          Peter I suspect that nobody wants to play with you.
          You ignore reality toooo much..
          Illusions dominate your thinking.
          not good mate !

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          theRealUniverse

          So PF, exactly how much of solar and wind will replace coal in the next 20 years? We know the answer but you will deny it.

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            In Australian, it will be nudging 50% of the total, this is the projection at the half way point

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            • #
              AndyG55

              On a good day, maybe

              Basically ZERO most of the rest of the time.

              And STILL totally reliant on fossil fuel back-up.

              And if that back-up is not there because its been destroyed

              BLACKOUTS for significant parts of many day.

              Windless nights…. ONLY FOSSIL FUEL.

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              theRealUniverse

              It is not physically possible, due to physical limits, to replace other standard sources by UN-renewables.

              30

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              Without sufficient spinning reserve, a lot of economy will shut down. But you know that.

              So the question is Patricia – why do you advocate basically pushing Australia into a collapsed state, by aggressively pursuing renewables?

              There is no climate emergency, so no impetus to do so.

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              Peter Fitzroy

              Ah, I see not substantiated by any proof, at least I provided a credible link. And I am accused of emptiness. Pathetic

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                AndyG55

                Well you still can’t answer any questions pertaining to even the most basic of the AGW memes.

                That is pretty pathetic, wouldn’t you say?

                Sorry you have been totally unable to learn anything about how the electricity system operates.

                Remain “unaware”. Its all you have.

                “On a good day, maybe

                Basically ZERO most of the rest of the time.

                And STILL totally reliant on fossil fuel back-up.

                And if that back-up is not there because its been destroyed

                Which part of that is wrong, PF?

                Here is the German supply curves for 2015, and 2016 so you have some actual evidence to work with.

                https://i.postimg.cc/K8ZBtqK7/German_Windpower.png

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                OriginalSteve

                Ill ask again:

                “So the question is Patricia – why do you advocate basically pushing Australia into a collapsed state, by aggressively pursuing renewables?”

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        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        G’day Tony,
        I got a big surprise this morning. A double in fact. In SMH and by Peter Hannam, those same China numbers!!

        http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/kiss-of-life-biggest-coal-miners-geared-for-growth-elevating-climate-risks-report-20190919-p52swt.html?btis

        It’s in the last sentence of his article:
        ” China topped the list of nations with the largest coal plants in the pipeline, with some 226,229MW of capacity planned. ”

        But it is worth noting that he hasn’t elaborated in any way; no mention of the number of plants, no mention of how many have been completed recently, nor of the expected commissioning rate for the future plants. I guess they’re too impressive for him.
        Cheers
        Dave B

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      AndyG55

      “Leading economies such as Japan and Australia will not be invited to speak “

      I see no reason to attend at all. Don’t sign anything coming out of this soiree/junket.

      Remove the country from the Paris farce and tell then to go take a jump.

      When will our LNP politicians grow a spine. !!

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    Bengt Abelsson

    Con version

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    TJ

    As a “warmist” that thinks nudging the public toward reducing our collective impact on the planet is morally justified, I am grateful for efforts like The Conversation. However….
    This sort of self-righteous anti-science is exactly the kind of elitism that pushes voters away and solidifies their suspicions. Sadly, the bubble in which academia has incased itself has become very opaque due to ideology and agended funding; and I unfortunately don’t see the situation improving any time soon. What worries me more than damaging the planet is the wholesale destruction unbridled narcissists like this do to science, rhetoric, and reason as foundational concepts of civilization.

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      TJ,

      Why doesn’t the fact that those who push climate alarmism always go the route of the Conversation give you pause about your warmist position?

      Don’t you think it’s suspicious how afraid they are of objective debate?

      You talk about the morality of it all, how moral is misrepresenting science for the purpose of extorting money from the developed world under the guise of climate reparations?

      What alarmists are doing is equivalent to yelling fire in a crowded theater. How moral is this?

      Why isn’t it immoral to demand change that’s wholly unnecessary, very expensive and will have absolutely no positive impact on the planet even if the IPCC was right about the science?

      If morality is so important to you, why are you a warmist?

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        TJ

        Well, for starters, your assertions of “always” and “how afraid they are of objective debate” are serious over-generalizations. Yes I do admit, as I highlighted in my earlier posting, there are many warmists who have lost the plot; and some are fully aware of the plot but smell the power, fame and fortune.
        But this certainly is not all of us – and we do try to moderate the worst offenders; and fortunately, the skeptical side has its moderators as well. That is why I am thankful for people like Jo that can in some way communicate to a broader public that there are other views on the research out there worth considering.
        You are obviously a very passionate skeptic; though you would not be able to tell by watching the news, most of us warmists respect that. So please do not do us the disservice of lumping us all into the same boat with The so-called Conversation, Gore, and/or Mann. Most of us disagree with most aspects of dangerous “climate emergency” solution delusions like the Green New Deal. But there are simple ideas than can be developed and implemented that will start moving us in the right direction.

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          Kalm Keith

          There are a few posts of mine, in recent threads, that have been written in the same vein as yours here.

          One example is here: http://joannenova.com.au/2019/09/the-conversation-gives-up-conversing-admits-defeat-on-climate-bans-all-skeptical-scientists-from-commenting/#comment-2190965

          As you can see, it says absolutely nothing.

          A previous adaptation received six green ticks and I’m hoping that they reflected the real intent behind the post.

          They were written in response to a repeat of a situation that had been played out before and had caused internal argument among the regular contributors here.

          The two incidents involved Social Justice type argument on the “rights” of contributors to do anything they like here without any limits: Lionell recently framed this point very well and suggested a solution, see it about half way down: standards?

          http://joannenova.com.au/2019/09/the-conversation-gives-up-conversing-admits-defeat-on-climate-bans-all-skeptical-scientists-from-commenting/#comment-2190990

          Another contributor, who shall remain nameless because of recent events, suggested that if the intruders were allowed free rein without minimum standards and being confronted, then the blog might degenerate into a version of The Conversation if it hadn’t already done that.

          Having said that, the last few threads are a brilliant reflection of Jo’s work in outlining and highlighting the complex nature of the Man Made Global Warming Military Industrial Complex which has nearly completed its work here: The removal of democratic process and our complete enslavement.

          As we’ve seen in the conservation, free speech isn’t necessarily Free, sometimes you have to fight for it.

          But back to your post, what’s it saying besides obviously asserting your right free speech here?

          KK

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          Peter C

          Green thumbs to both sides!
          A good example of polite and rational Conversation!
          Andy’s questions below are perhaps unanswerable, at this stage.

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          TJ,

          I’m a passionate scientist who’s highly offended by what the IPCC passes off as ‘settled’ science. I’ve done my due diligence by analyzing the climates behavior, modeling it in many ways and was an expert reviewer of IPCC reports. They couldn’t be more wrong about the science they claim supports the policy goals of the UNFCCC. There are so many errors biased in the same direction, it’s an embarrassment to legitimate science everywhere. But despite the obvious scientific flaws, there are so many red flags in the means used by those pushing the alarmist narrative, it’s hard to understand why everyone isn’t a skeptic. To be absolutely clear, being a skeptic means being skeptical that the IPCC has the legitimacy to establish what is and what is not climate science by what they choose to include in their reports, choose being the operative word that enables bias.

          It’s the people who are the face of climate alarmism who need to debate the most and who refuse. Arguing that the science is beyond debate is one of the biggest red flags of all, especially given the many ways it’s wrong. There’s a good reason skeptics will never go away which is that the entire scientific basis justifying a climate sensitivity large enough to be alarming is so wrong, the maximum sensitivity supported by the known laws of physics is less than the IPCC’s presumed lower limit!

          There’s not a person on the planet who can defend the IPCC’s science without looking like a fool when properly interrogated and this is the real reason why those who accept the IPCC as the arbiter of what is and what is not climate science refuse any real debate because they fear having to defend the IPCC’s position. It’s a good thing that there are still people in the world who can tell the difference between settled and indefensible.

          If you would like to try and defend their position, answer the following question:

          How can the climate system tell the difference between the next W/m^2 from the Sun and the average W/m^2 already arriving from the Sun so that the next W/m^2 can be 3 or more times as powerful, on a Joule by Joule basis, as the average W/m^2?

          I’ll give you some hints. Feedback can’t tell the difference between Joules either. Putting numbers to this, the IPCC requires the next W/m^2 of solar input to increase surface emissions by between 2.2 W/m^2 and 6.6 W/m^2. The theoretical minimum is 1 W/m^2 of surface emissions per W/m^2 of forcing. the theoretical maximum is 2 W/m^2 of surface emissions per W/m^2 of forcing and the repeatably measurable average is 1.62 W/m^2 of surface emissions per W/m^2 of forcing.

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            theRealUniverse

            And we know that the energy W/m^2 is a function of the angle to the radiation source, due to rotation. Do they take this into account or is it a flat earth model? What wavelengths are they referring to? What absorption lines of CO2? Cloud blocking? Use of heat as flux. Flux isnt heat.
            As far as I can tell the whole thing is a farce.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      TJ, You say you are a “warmist”

      Perhaps you can answer two simple questions, where other “warmists” have failed miserably…

      1. What scientifically provable affect have humans had on the global climate in the last 40 year?

      2. Where is the empirical scientific evidence of warming by increased atmospheric CO2?

      Remember, models are not evidence of anything.

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        Kalm Keith

        The warmish tag is deliberately low key.

        That allows its meaning to be modified, or homogenized, as the circumstances and conversation change.

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          TJ

          Just catching up on all these posts. Thanks to everyone for their input.

          Keith
          To your observation, I agree with you on how vague of a term “warmist” is. However, I did not come up with it; in fact, I only started using it after having it applied to me at one of the Heartland Institute’s International Conferences on Climate Change (ICCC) that I attended in Washington, DC. So, it is a term that some mainstream “skeptics” use to refer to people like me. If you have a better label, please let me know.

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          • #
            Kalm Keith

            TJ.

            I don’t care what you think.

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              TJ

              Keith,

              Hmm.. I was recently looking at something that did not care what others thought…. what was it… Oh, that’s right, it’s called The Conversation.

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            AndyG55

            More irrelevancies and twaddle from TJ.

            Not making a very good impression, are you, old chap.

            Avoiding any actual “science” is probably a good idea for you. ;-)

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            • #
              TJ

              Andy,

              Actually this has been good; and making an impression was never my intent.

              I think avoiding the science in this particular post would be a good idea for everyone. The original topic was censorship and we should stay with that.

              But if I do see a more science-focused thread that catches my attention in here, I might very well join that conversation.

              Until then though, I will stay on topic.

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        Peter C

        These are the ultimate questions Andy.
        At present the answers are No proof and No evidence.

        A question I am interested in is this. How could it be proven that CO2 causes, or does not cause, Global warming? Is it possible to quantify any effect, even as a first order approximation?

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        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Hi Peter,

          I agree, it is complex but here’s something that you can do yourself over the next year.
          Every day write down the maximum and minimum temperature and over the year note how much much movement occurs.
          Summer vs winter? Here where I live the Tmax difference would be say 39 – 12 or 27 C°.
          Similarly the Tmin difference might be 15 C°.

          Inland, away from the ocean, the winter minimums are 5 C° lower than here just 20 miles away.

          I’d better stop, but the point is that these annual variations are due to known physical processes that don’t involve CO2 which is a Trojan horse brought out to enslave us.

          I don’t like to be enslaved.

          KK

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          theRealUniverse

          Best example lies in the other planets with a 97% CO2 atmosphere. There is no effect there. Statements by NASA about Venus just are there to try to prove the usual but are wrong. (The numbers can show it).

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          • #

            Neither Mars or Venus is an Earth analogy, although Mars is close.

            If Earth had the same amount of CO2 per m^2 column of atmosphere as Mars, it would need to be at a concentration of over 16000 ppm, or about 6 doublings for a nominal temperature increase of 18C, which is almost enough to melt Antartica. Based on the IPCC’s sensitivity, Mars should be an oven, despite being farther away from the Sun.

            Venus is completely different, where the atmosphere is heated from above by clouds in direct thermal equilibrium with the Sun, rather than heated by the surface below. Venusian clouds are an independent thermodynamic system from the solid surface below, unlike Earth clouds which are tightly coupled to the surface via evaporation and rain. Once the Venusian cloud temperatures are established, the atmospheric temperature profile to the surface below follows the required PVT profile. The crucial difference is the location of the surface in direct equilibrium with the Sun.

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              theRealUniverse

              Yes true, but according to NASA Mars has (Carbon dioxide: 94.9%) Space.com, but it is at about 7-10mb surface pressure 1/100th of earth.

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              • #

                It’s not the absolute pressure or relative concentrations that primarily determines the magnitude of the RADIANT GHG effect, but it’s the absolute number of GHG molecules between the surface and space. On that matter, Mars has Earth beat by well over an order of magnitude. The absolute pressure only has a small second order effect on the GHG effect. The larger effect of higher pressure is to reduce the temperature difference between night and day by increasing night time lows.

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          Kalm Keith

          Rational?

          Hi Peter,

          On many occasions here I have produced evidence based on quantitative analysis that human origin CO2 has unmeasurable effect, and that’s assuming an operable mechanism at ground level.

          As to an actual mechanism that’s another matter that people like Will J would be more qualified to express opinion on. I recall he thought that the operating temperature of the mechanism was at about 243 °K. And that’s not ground level.

          Yes Svante Arrhenius discovered a mechanism and if I recall correctly he later made a statement saying that it would not influence atmospheric temperature.

          Even if that mechanism was available at ground level it has no special effect since if it was absent the conduction mechanism would replace it.

          The whole thing is a gigantic con.

          KK
          KK

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        TJ

        Andy,
        If we had the time and situation to sit down over a beer or two, some chips, and a laptop, then I would be happy to run down with you why I interpret the physics and data like I do.
        But more to your point. As we do not have a control group on which to validate a thorough experimental design, the use of models is indicated.
        However, before a model should be used in any serious discussion or policy decision, the model should be: code-transparent, thoroughly peer and non-peer reviewed, and shown to hind-cast accurately for an appropriate number of years (centuries/millennia). Only after that kind of rigorous evaluation should it be brought into the discussion. And yes, I do wish the IPCC would apply this sort of treatment prior to inclusion in their reports.

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        • #
          Graeme No.3

          But TJ such rigorous evaluation would destroy their arguments.

          How would they explain The Little Ice Age unless they accepted that the sun’s output could vary?
          How could they explain numerous storms/hurricanes etc. when the CO2 level was “ideal” ?

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          AndyG55

          So you are basically saying that you cannot present any scientific evidence.

          Models are NEVER evidence, especially models that are provably wrong, are un-validated and cover such a huge range of outcomes.

          Hindcast to what ??

          GISS is a load of fabricated garbage.

          You have no real climate data you can even hindcast to.

          They cannot and do not model the main drivers of climate: clouds, solar frequency variability etc etc

          Sorry, but the models are nothing but a fantasy.

          Read up on Pat Frank’s work showing that they are so prone to error propagation as to be WORSE THAN USELESS.

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            TJ

            Andy,

            I never suggested models are evidence; they certainly are not. What I was saying is that in the absence of an available control group, the use of models is indicated.

            In terms of a basis on which to hind-cast, there are datasets from various proxies going back thousands of years. I agree with you that some of the modern datasets are systematically flawed and are not appropriate for public-policy making.

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          TJ,

          You can’t ‘interpret’ the physics. It is what it is. The Laws of Thermodynamics, the Stefan-Boltzmann Law and others are called Laws because there’s no interpretation to be had.

          You can interpret data to the extent that your interpretation is consistent with the physics, but you can’t interpret the physics to allow interpreting the data to fit expectations. Here’s some data to interpret, but you must stay within what the laws of physics allow.

          This plot show that the ratio between the surface emissions corresponding to its temperature and the emissions at TOA above that point on the surface converges to a constant ratio of 1.62 W/m^2 of surface emissions per W/m^2 leaving TOA. This ratio is relatively constant from pole to pole, independent of the temperature, total forcing, land/water ratio or anything else

          http://www.palisad.com/co2/tp/fig1.png

          Each of the 25K small red dots is 1 month of data plotting the average surface temperature along the Y axis and the emissions at TOA along the X axis for each 2.5 degree slice of latitude from pole to pole. The thin green line is the prediction of the relationship between the temperature and emissions of an ideal gray body whose emissivity is 0.62 (1/1.62). The larger dots are the average of all monthly data samples over about 3 decades of weather satellite data. Of all the relationships between climate variables, this ratio is the most closely regulated one. Many other examples of climate variable relationships can be found here:

          http://www.palisad.com/co2/sens

          Cloud coverage modulates the effective emissivity where more surface energy escapes under clear skies (higher emissivity relative to the surface temperature) than under cloudy skies. This makes the average relationship between the surface temperature and emissions at TOA highly dependent on the cloud coverage. If we plot the fraction of the surface covered by clouds along Y and the temperature along X where the small dots have a 1:1 correspondence to the small dots in the first plot, we get the following plot,

          http://www.palisad.com/co2/sens/st_ca.png

          Is there a really bizarre relationship between clouds and temperature that just happens to result in a mostly constant effective emissivity from pole to pole, or is a constant emissivity from pole to pole the goal and clouds adapt as required? Can you explain why the response per hemisphere is so different (green vs. blue large dots), while the effective emissivity per hemisphere remains the same?

          The two large changes in cloud behavior occur at about 0C and 300K. Above 0C, the surface becomes less reflective relative to clouds as snow and ice melts away. At about 300K, the incremental latent heat of evaporation over ocean completely offsets the incremental solar forcing. That the clouds react to these unrelated effects is clear evidence that the clouds are adapting, not controlling.

          You might also notice that 1.62 W/m^2 per W/m^2 of forcing represents the ‘surface emissions sensitivity’, which is bidirectionally equivalent to the pedantic surface temperature sensitivity, and is close to the golden mean. Is it just a coincidence that a constant characterizing the steady state of a chaotically self organized system converges to the golden mean? What’s so special about this ratio that the system wants to converge to it in the first place? If there was nothing special about it, you would expect the ratio to be much more uncorrelated, especially over longer an longer time frames.

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            TJ

            co2isnotevil
            I will have to respectfully disagree with you that two educated and reasoning individuals cannot arrive at different conclusions looking at the same information. The insistence that one’s own interpretation rests above all others is a dangerous game that many unfortunately play in this field – on both sides.

            I am well aware of the information for and against our differing evaluations; and you and I could go back and forth for days discussing this. However, that would do nothing to actually move this conversation into the eyes of broader public so all the positions can be weighed on their merits.

            Like many other warmists, I really do want to see this hashed out in the eyes of the world – not just behind the closed doors of political and academic institutions. If this public debate does happen, and I see that my position has less merit than yours, I would have no issue admitting I was wrong. But until then, I will still advocate for reasonable and affordable action.

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              AndyG55

              TJ, you do realisetht so far you have presented nothing but waffle, don’t you ?

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                TJ

                Andy,

                The purpose of Jo’s original post was not to discuss the physics or the data. She was addressing the bizarre and incongruous behavior of The Conversation. My comments have all been with respect to that, not the disagreements about the science. So I would not agree that staying on topic is waffleish.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                So you admit you have NOTHING and have no intent of answering basic questions.

                Why not just say so !!

                Go back to the CONversation where you belong.

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                TJ

                Andy

                I would be happy to answer questions on Jo’s original topic.

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              TJ,

              When evaluating something subjective, differing conclusions are expected. When evaluating the results of a system driven by something as deterministic as thermodynamics, there’s only one correct answer. Unfortunately, most of the discussions happening behind closed doors in academia and politics focuses on the consequences of the wrong answer because the correct answer has become too politically damaging.

              I will again request that you take a crack at explaining the data I presented in a way that’s consistent with an effect that can justify any action, much less the need to make a subjective determination about what comprises reasonable and affordable action. Feel free to consult with any ‘expert’ you want, but without a valid explanation that’s at least as consistent with the known laws of physics as mine (the system goal is a constant effective emissivity), your position lacks any support from the laws of physics.

              We all want this to be hashed out in the eyes of the world, but this can’t happen until control of what is and what is not climate science is taken away from the IPCC and everyone can see with clear eyes, the nefarious motivations that broke climate science upon their formation and have kept it broken ever since. Their desire to use climate change as an excuse for global governance under control of the UN starting with the control of energy is not some conspiracy theory invented for political reasons, but a truth that they’re painfully transparent about and that some of their principles even boast about.

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              theRealUniverse

              Sorry TJ there is NO warming. theres nothing you or anybody else can do about it. The IPCC was setup to push an agenda (provable). They are wrong..PERIOD.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                BOM data is so mangled it proves nothing.

                It says its not “altering”, then goes on about “homogenising”

                DOH !!!

                Ken’s kingdom compare raw and altered data, and yes PF, they ARE altering the data.

                And in nearly cases it introduces a positive trend that is not in the raw data.

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                AndyG55

                It is proven PF…

                There has been no atmospheric warming in the last 40 years except by El Nino events.

                There is no “climate change™” signal in sea level rise.

                There has been no divergence of the OLR data from the atmospheric temperature.

                All other “climate” signals are round about normal and definitely within normal climate variability.

                You could perhaps tell us how the climate has changed in the last 40 year apart from that slight El Nino warming.

                Or you could produce scientific evidence of human effects on a climate that is pretty much steady.

                Or you could produce some empirical evidence of warming by increased atmospheric CO2 when you know there isn’t any.

                We are still waiting.

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                theRealUniverse

                ‘Contrary to assertions in some parts of the media, the Bureau is not altering climate records to exaggerate estimates of global warming.

                Our role is to make meteorological measurements, and to curate, analyse and communicate the data for use in decision making and to support public understanding.’

                LIE!

                They DO alter the records or use as has been pointed out by Jo’s other threads numerous times that they also use dodgy temperature sites.
                NASA AND NOAA have both falsified their data ON record.

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                TJ

                RealU

                I will disagree with you on the assertion that the IPCC was founded to push an agenda. The inclusion of many scientists from what is now the skeptical side of the argument highlights this.

                However, I think you can make a very convincing argument that the IPCC is now quite a bit off course and pushing ideological solutions to an exaggerated issue.

                Please keep in mind, the IPCC is treated with a certain amount of suspicion within the warmist community as well; and every time they sell out a first-class airline cabin flying internationally to 5-star resorts to save the planet, that hypocrisy grates on us as well.

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              Kalm Keith

              TJ, I have a feeling that somebody accused me of blog clogging, was that you?

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              Kalm Keith

              :-)

              Can’t.
              Really.
              Accept that.
              Proposition.

              Solly.

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              TJ,
              There can be nothing more topical than the faulty science cited as the reason for why the Conversation thinks it’s proper to suppress debating the science.

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                TJ

                co2isnotevil

                To a certain extent, I agree with you. The modern day book-burning so proudly announced by The Conversation is predicated on the idea that climate change is a planetary emergency that demands immediate and drastic action. From the perspective of most warmists, those are extremists views based on accepting multiple layers of fringe possibilities.

                After reading a bit more of their content, I really don’t believe their book-burning excuse. I think they are just indolent, not incompetent or evil.

                Oh and you will love this, my car’s license plat read “IH8CO2″. It is quite the conversation starter.

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                TJ,

                Many of the IPCC’s supporters do just believe what they’re told, not because they’re lazy, but because they’re incapable of performing the due diligence on their own. The science itself was initially framed by incompetence, but has migrated to become the false justification for evil.

                Years ago when I was talking to Trenberth about his energy balance and Schlesinger about climate feedback, I was convinced the broken science was just a case of confirmation bias reinforced with incompetence. Unfortunately, Schlesinger’s errors have even survived his death as ‘settled’. As I’ve seen IPCC reports evolve and even stepped in to review the upcoming one, it’s become clear that the bad science is now driven by pure evil, where that evil is the policy goals of the UNFCCC, which are heavily referenced in the report, even in sections that are supposed to be about the science. What they’ve omitted is nearly the entire body of work by skeptics which they justify by denigrating all possible authors in one ugly paragraph (which I hope they remove in the final report).

                Don’t be fooled by the ‘save the world’ and rhetoric. If it was as bad as the IPCC claims, it might be worth investigating if there was anything we could do about it, considering that nothing proposed thus far will have any discernible effect on the climate. That the IPCC couldn’t be more wrong, yet has gained so much traction with the misrepresented science, will be a stain on all science for decades, if not a centuries, to come.

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            theRealUniverse

            ‘the Stefan-Boltzmann Law’ yes this is the one the ‘climate scientists’ often fall down on, miss-use of. If you check the so called warming effect.

            10

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              True.

              The S-B equation cannot be used by just plugging in absolute values: it has to be “tuned” to the situation, something that they have no understanding of.

              KK

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              • #

                The only possible way to ‘tune’ the SB Law is by adjusting the emissivity. The T^4 relationship between temperature and emissions as well as the Stefan-Boltzmann constant are immutable.

                This is why the SB Law works so well. It must be obeyed and there’s no wiggle room to support otherwise.

                The problem with consensus climate science is that they selectively apply SB to the relationships between temperature and W/m^2, rather than uniformly apply it. When applying SB properly, the climate sensitivity becomes deterministically small as the slope of the SB relationship, rather than presumably high with no physical connection to the relationship between W/m^2 and temperature.

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        • #
          AndyG55

          “1. What scientifically provable affect have humans had on the global climate in the last 40 year?”

          Come on, you must have something !!!

          Otherwise you are saying that “climate change”, as caused by humans, DOES NOT EXIST.

          How can you “believe” under those circumstances? !

          30

          • #
            AndyG55

            Or an even simpler question.

            Apart from a slight warming from El Nino events, how has the climate actually “changed” in the last 40 years?

            As far as I can see, everything is WELL WITHIN natural climate variability.

            There is no real evidence of any “human” effect in any global climate data.

            (apart from data manipulation and adjustment, that is.)

            50

            • #
              Gee Aye

              TOTAL IGNORANCE from brainwashed Andy, yet again

              You poor little over-hype child-troll, you have absolutely NOTHING in the way of anything relevant to say whatsoever.

              Every post displays your total and abject ignorance about basically everything.

              You are one of our best assets because of your gross incompetence at even the most basic understanding of science, maths or anything related to actual reality.

              People look at your posts and either cringe at your base-level stupidity, or keel over with laughter at their brain-washed emptymess.

              16

              • #
                theRealUniverse

                Gee Aye, before you accuse others of exactly what you are doing, think about it.
                We are waiting for the proof of the so called ‘consensus’ that CO2 causes catastrophic global ‘climate change’ that will destroy civilization? C’mon where is it? Where is the evidence in un-refutable form. Please dont quote falsified data sources.

                30

              • #
                AndyG55

                Poor GA ,

                It is note that you are incapable of answering even the most basic question.

                Waiting for EVIDENCE, greenie-scum. !

                Copy paste will not help you when YOU KNOW YOU HAVE NOTHING.

                Which pill did you forget to take, LOSER.?

                ——–

                TRY AGAIN, see if you can put forward a coherent answer… or not !!

                Apart from a slight warming from El Nino events, how has the climate actually “changed” in the last 40 years?

                As far as I can see, everything is WELL WITHIN natural climate variability.

                There is no real evidence of any “human” effect in any global climate data.

                (apart from data manipulation and adjustment, that is.)

                20

              • #
                Gee Aye

                You really are a deceitful LIAR, aren’t you Aint he gee whiz.

                You comment was a deceitful LIE.

                Its GREAT NEWS that real scientists like me are standing up against the LIES and DECEIT of the climate change demniers.

                We KNOW , just like AG KNOWS that so called skeptics are totally and absolutely self-interested BSers

                24

              • #
                AndyG55

                Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

                Get a life, GA.

                Find some EVIDENCE. !!

                20

              • #
                AndyG55

                Its great to know you have been saving all my posts, GA.

                Pity you haven’t learnt anything except being a parrot.

                30

              • #
                theRealUniverse

                ‘Its GREAT NEWS that real scientists like me are standing up against the LIES and DECEIT of the climate change demniers.’
                OK then how about you sit in a room with, Lindzen or Ball or other professors that have been mentioned on here and try to argue with them..you know ..open debate? The lines are open.
                Heres question. How do you explain that the early Holocene was WARMER than present with LOWER levels of CO2?
                You know perfectly well that a trace gas cannot drive the climate.

                40

              • #
                AndyG55

                Poor little GA has lost it completely.

                He knows I am correct, has no arguments against my comments,

                So take the lowest form of reply he can come up with, imitation and flattery. :-)

                I hope he can solve his mental issues and that he hasn’t caught something nasty from licking PF’s boots all day.

                30

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Gee Wiz.

                Ooh aaah.

                Ian, Feter PitzRoy, Josephus and the latest Gentleperson Troll TJ, all welcome to the Inverse Conversation where nobody is denied the chance to abuse the contributors the write to and financially support this blog.

                Sincerely, genuinely, with heartfelt best wishes: welcome to the Inverse Conversation.

                I salute your bloodless coup.

                KK

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              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Victory to the advocates of the Inverse Conversation.

                I concede defeat.

                A great achievement to bring this blog down.

                http://joannenova.com.au/2019/09/under-seige-the-conversation-pulls-the-weak-trust-your-doctor-or-climate-god-excuse/#comment-2192135

                KK

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              • #
                Kalm Keith

                My abject apologies for having left out one of the more recent additions to the team : Vishnu.

                http://joannenova.com.au/2019/09/under-seige-the-conversation-pulls-the-weak-trust-your-doctor-or-climate-god-excuse/#comment-2192135

                Brilliant work.

                KK

                00

            • #
              AndyG55

              Try again GA. take your ADD meds first though..

              Apart from a slight warming from El Nino events, how has the climate actually “changed” in the last 40 years?

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              • #
                Kalm Keith

                I wish I could answer that question but I’ll have to leave it to someone smarter.

                KK

                p.s. I am Not blog clogging.

                Honest, that would be unethical.

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        • #
          Geoff Sherrington

          TJ,
          No model should be taken seriously until it is validated, preferably independently more than once.
          Geoff S

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        • #
          el gordo

          ‘ … and shown to hind-cast accurately for an appropriate number of years (centuries/millennia).’

          I want to see hind-casts and projections from all the theorists, so that we can discover the mechanisms through trial and error.

          00

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          More rubbish.

          00

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day TJ,
      I think it’s a bit rich to describe as “nudging”, your attempts to close down our whole coal industry, and force excessive power prices on our whole population..
      Get real.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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      • #
        TJ

        G’day David,
        Not all of us want to take such drastic and rapid actions. Pinning that assertion on us is like blaming all Roman Catholics for the Spanish Inquisition or all Canadians for Justin Bieber.

        13

        • #
          AndyG55

          But I don’t see you out there arguing against these draconian idiocies.

          I hope the bard wire fence isn’t hurting you too much. !!

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          • #
            TJ

            Andy

            Well, actually I do fight against the extremists with both my time and wallet; and I am by no means alone. There are a lot of us warmists that are also frightened by what the extremists want to push.

            00

        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          So which parts are ones you disagree with?
          D

          20

        • #
          AndyG55

          “Not all of us want to take such drastic and rapid actions.”

          If you go to the CONversation and say that, you would get banned. !

          30

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          What’s Justin Beiber got to do with the scam science of Man Made Global Warming?

          KK

          10

          • #
            TJ

            Keith

            That answer to your question is “nothing”. But that was not the point of my comment.

            Not all of us think that drastic and immediate actions are indicated. We have very divergent opinions on both the science and the viability of potential solutions. As an example, many see the market as a better long-term solution for reducing our impacts on the planet vs government control. Many do not see it that way.

            So using the most extreme opinions on the warmist side as the foil for your interpretation does not hold much weight.

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  • #

    Another great post Jo.

    In case it hasn’t been posted yet, there’s a great 4-minute video from Chris Kenny here

    https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6087244662001

    He ends with

    “This is not only unscientific, anti-academic, illiberal and antifree speech, it’s just dumb.
    It’s a gross misuse of the public money that certainly has gone to the Conversation in the past and certainly does support our universities now. These people are destroying the very intellectual freedom that should be the lifeblood of our universities.”

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    Bill Capron

    Joanne, you’ve taken one small step for man, and a giant leap for mankind; and you’ve exposed the speciousness of alarmist reasoning. Keep it up!

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    Robbo_notinperth

    Bling bling… here’s a few chocolates coming your way from Beijing, and you don’t even need to spit on Taiwan to get them.

    Sadly, a proven track record of published articles and activity in TC is considered a strong positive discriminant in university job, fellowship and grant applications in Oz, an important item to list in your CV. Officially, because it ticks the “outreach” box, but in reality, as a litmus test of correct political allegiance of the candidate. Already a few years ago, the previous editor of TC (ex Guardian and ABC) visited our university department in Perth and invited us to submit more articles, even on topics outside our direct expertise, because “scientists need to be role models” to educate the people against the likes of Andrew Bolt, the Murdoch media and the climate deniers. If you look at the comments on any TC article, it’s always the same 30-40 commenters agreeing with each other on any of the four standard TC topics (climate change, Trump-is-hitler, lgbtqwerty issues, and white-Australians-are-so-racist). The total readership may be a few 100. And yet, TC cannot be laughed off and ignored, because it has become a crucial tool of ideological selection and political cleansing in Australian academia.

    [Brilliant to hear from the long lost Robbo! I'm still telling your story to people behind the scenes. We miss you. -- Jo PS: Thank you and check your email. :- ) ]

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  • #
    Lance

    Offerings for the Byline:

    Group Think for Those Who Don’t

    Indoctrination For Your Own Good

    Where Sheeple Congregate

    Closing Your Mind For You

    Simple Things for Simple Minds

    Where the Echo Never Stops

    Good Boy. Now Wag Your Tail

    Our Dogma, Your Money, What Could Go Wrong?

    Surrender Your Mind, All Ye Who Enter Here

    Thinking is Hard, So We Do It For You

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Reads like a charter that is appropriate for many organisations that are there to help and protect us.

      Should be framed and hung in the entry areas of The Conversation, The United Bloody Nations, The European Union, the IPCCCCC and our governments at all levels.

      KK

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  • #

    Just added some art to the top. Science advisory…

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  • #
    nb

    Ahh, communism. Good for everybody else one day, bloodier the next.

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    Richard Ilfeld

    There is a consequence of sites like this; partisans on the left are losing the ability to debate.
    If one lives in an echo chamber, as is shielded from even seeing dissent, one is a bit nonplussed if one is ever
    actually called upon to support one’s positions or debate an informed foe. More and more we are seeing this in public spaces.
    The narrative that is presumed is unchallenged. The great snake just announced thousands of electric vans, thus attaining maximum virtue
    in the public space. Amazon will meet Paris accords ten years early (and Prime members will presumable meet them twelve years early).
    Does anyone actually expect a literal accounting of the greenness of these new trucks. I note that one of the supposed virtues is that the batteries will be charged
    by the solar panels on the roof of the building…the ones Amazon is suing the manufacturer of for spontaneous consumption. Uh, won’t you need double batteries
    so you can charge one set while the trucks are out during the day. And after a cloudy day will deliveries be delayed?
    Bezos will not debate, tho he is likely capable. and none of his sycophants in the press will do else but genuflect.
    They no longer know how.

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    Betapug

    It is not censorship, it is “Curating”, don’tcha know?

    It is a valuable service provided by the woke, fully up to date on current trends to prevent us from making unfashionable faux pas in our thinking!

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    Clyde Spencer

    I just sent the editor of The Conversation an email asking if they have considered changing their name to The Monologue to better characterize what they are.

    If I should hear back, I will share the response.

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  • #
    Zigmaster

    I think “The Conversation “ should just be known by its short form name

    THE CON

    Much more accurate

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    If you’re not onboard with the UN agenda, you don’t get to talk.

    That’s the future with one-world government.

    The UN way or the highway …

    Australia banned from speaking at UN climate change summit in ‘unprecedented’ rebuke

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/australia-banned-from-speaking-at-un-climate-change-summit-in-unprecedented-rebuke

    More than 100 countries applied for UN climate summit, half were rejected

    https://climatechangenews.com/2019/09/19/100-countries-applied-un-climate-summit-half-rejected/

    h/t: Steve Milloy @junkscience

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  • #
    TdeF

    The ABC is an arrogant organization from top to bottom. To ensure utter impartiality and lack of bias, they have been given unique independence from political interference under their charter, but they are still paid from the public purse. We the taxpayers of Australia pay their wages, their overheads, their travel and we expect back what we wanted, utterly impartial news. Is that so hard to understand?

    However the ABC considers they have no responsibility for half of all Australians. They exist only for their friends and to look after the interests of their journalists and managers. Otherwise they are not accountable to anyone and they can pick and choose and even exclude half the population from the services for which they are paid. That is the privilege of a private company but even a private company would never exclude at least half their paying customers.

    This ‘friends of the ABC’ private club has to stop. We love ‘OUR ABC’. Yes, of course. We know. Most of those people who pay for the ABC do not watch it. Those who do refuse to pay.
    That is legislated theft. A private club for themselves and their friends, at everyone’s expense.

    When will our representatives in Parliament who give these people $1.5Billion a year to run their private club be told they do not own it?

    Legally they have a charter of total impartiality. It is now a joke.

    To suggest that the ABC is politically impartial is a joke in Australia. This Climate Change is a single sided far left Green political issue, not science.
    It is part of the 21st century Communist manifesto, posing as caring socialism.

    The ABC journalists sneer and ridicule and attack conservatives on every program and do not employ a single conservative journalist

    Of course the ABC is massively illegal under our own Federal laws to stop political interference. Which exactly why
    they can and do flout the law. No care and no responsibility.

    Now the internet has obsoleted the 1930s concept of a National Radio broadcaster anyway. They lost the cricket long ago.

    The ABC compete with our money against private businesses for British shows.
    And perennially threaten the government with withdrawing regional centres, which they did long ago.
    Or cancelling the children’s British favorite Peppa Pig, which they outbid everyone else with our money.

    They are blatantly into political extortion, as was feared by parliament when the media laws were written.

    These ignorant journalists have put themselves above science and above the law itself on media reach and their strict charter of independence.

    Now they have gone too far. Telling half the taxpayers of Australia to get stuffed on Climate Change is enough cause to close the ABC.

    Enforce the charter. Make the ABC accountable. Or close it.

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    • #
      Peter C

      Make the ABC accountable. Or close it.

      I sometimes ask people why we should have a taxpayer funded National broadcaster? Most people have not thought about it so they struggle to answer, even though they watch or listen to it regularly.

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    • #
      PeterS

      The LNP won’t do a damn thing because they are asleep. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The ABC will keep going on with their propaganda with impunity. A more serious issue though is the indoctrination of our children at public schools. Time for PM Morrison to speak out on these issues when he returns but I won’t hold my breath.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Legally they have a charter of total impartiality.’

      Its not legally binding and that is part of the problem, its an untouchable fiefdom.

      Ita Buttrose was a captain’s pick and I’m confident she can purge the organisation of pseudo Marxist alarmists, but the timing is difficult to predict.

      The key to our success on this issue (getting the ABC to tell the truth on climate change) may rest in the hands of Lachlan Murdoch and the Sky News team, free to air into the regions.

      Because of the stark contrast on climate change the people get a chance to make up their own minds.

      30

      • #
        TdeF

        It’s as binding as any contract could be, but who in the public is going to take on a billion dollar organization and the other signatory is the Australian people? Worse bias is obvious enough but as hard to prove as slander or libel.

        Ita Buttrose has already made it clear publicly that Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt are not welcome, which far more than any other chairman has done to flag the intent to let the ABC do as they please. She is clearly not prepared to challenge them.

        The problem is the political power of the ABC, free from any constraints on National reach with many TV stations in all states, web sites, radio. The only thing they lack is print media, but that matters less and less.

        Only Parliament could bring them into line and should, but the individual politicians are scared of them. Tony Abbott is out of a job. That’s the power of the media. And as seen here, the ABC staff have realised they can get away with it.

        In every walk of public life, we are seeing the rapacity of the public service. The Victoria parliament keeps giving themselves wage rises. The councils are unaccountable and rates are rocketing while they declare a Climate Emergency. Malcolm Turnbull gave $444 million to his wife’s friends as a surprise gift and is building a $6-$12Billion Snowy II memorial to himself, without asking anyone to tender or justify it or propose anything else. Daniel Andrews has declared a day off for a football game, which is not even the day of the football game. And the Unions flout the laws and run the superannuation funds.

        There is a lot wrong in the public service and government. The ABC is a symptom of the arrogance and unaccountability of governments in Australia. The Charter is clear and binding, but worthless if the government is not prepared to enforce it.

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        • #
          el gordo

          ‘It’s as binding as any contract could be …’

          You may have missed this.

          http://catallaxyfiles.com/2016/10/11/the-abc-charter-is-not-law/

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          • #
            TdeF

            I never said it was law. It is not criminal law or civil law with penalties or any sort of law. It is a binding contract between the government (us) and them.
            People damaged by the ABC bias abuse can sue and this would be useful as given them written obligations not to do so above and beyond the normal obligations.
            However it is also a contract which I would argue has been broken and at any time, the government can without any obligation cease funding them completely. They exist only for the purpose in the contract. If that is no longer being followed, shut them down. Their licences, equipment, technical staff, buildings and media are very valuable. Their venture into attacking people through social media and absurdities like this one sided Codescension program would end.

            You have to ask yourself why anyone would need public service media? I have no idea in the 21st century. It made sense in the 1930s with radio. Given the internet’s rapid development, we may soon be asking why we need any other broadcast media, let alone the left wing activist ABC.

            There is absolutely no justification either for a public Ethnic broadcaster (SBS) in an internet world. Or for a lot of Energy departments like the Clean Energy corporation. All sheltered workshops for socialist activists so Canberrans can run the country and holiday overseas at our expense.

            They know the climate’s changing. The ABC/SBS may not exist soon. For medieval politicians it was defenestration. For the ABC/SBS it’s called defunding.

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            • #
              el gordo

              Okay, I have no objection to dismantling the whole operation, allowing new startups to flourish. The green/left would scream blue murder, with the Murdocracy holding sway.

              Still, unless you have plans for a class action, nothing will happen because the politicians are sitting on their hands.

              SBS is partially funded at the moment and I wonder if they could survive without government assistance?

              10

              • #
                TdeF

                I do not wonder if the ABC could survive without government assistance. They could not. It is a featherbedded self interest group accountable to no one. Just as the writers of the media laws expected.

                One way to sort them out is to change the media laws to include their ABC. Murdoch, Stokes and the rest have to abide by these laws. They are there for a reason. Why not the ABC.

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  • #
    JCalvertN(UK)

    It’s like saying “Trust your car-dealer!” Why not? They know all about cars.

    So, your car is faulty and you take it in to the dealership. And they say, “Your car is completely RS. You’ll need a new one.”

    Do you just believe them? Knowing that their core business is selling cars – not mending them.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      If your doctor had failed utterly in every prediction they had made about anyone’s health in 30 years, they should probably have been disbarred ages ago.

      At least find a doctor that has some sort of clue what they are talking about.

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    joseph

    We should be thankful excessive moderation doesn’t occur on this site.

    10

  • #
    PeterS

    The alarmists are getting desperately anxious about their “religion”. They have launched to the next level and are now using children to do their dirty work as well as applying draconian rules to try and shut down the opposing views on CAGW. Let’s call the alarmists for what they really are; dangerous extremists akin to terrorist. They are now leading many children to contemplate suicide because they are being told there is no hope of avoiding the end of the world due to the alleged CAGW. PM Morrison is missing in action on this very important issue. Our children are being literally scared almost to death, and this by law is a criminal offence.

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    • #
      TdeF

      So the UN have disinvited all coal using countries from their Climate change meeting. Good.
      Tim Flannery has spat the dummy. From the lofty heights of a kangaroo scientist.
      The ABC’s Condescension has told half of Australians they have no voice on the ABC.
      And genuinely qualified scientists have been told they are harming children with their advice that man made Global Warming (aka Climate Change) is faux science and a huge scam.
      And the UN demands 45% reduction in Carbon dioxide within ten years.
      And $100Billion a year. Cash. Pay up or no invites to the parties. Julie Bishop, take note.
      And we are told meat is bad,
      And we have banned plastic bags and plastic straws in Australia. Just to show we care.

      Good.

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      • #
        TdeF

        And we have been told not to travel by air or car, by people who fly regularly on luxury overseas holidays in private jets and chauffered limousines.

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        • #
          PeterS

          Well the UN could propose a levy on all flights to “fight” climate change (might as well include earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes on all planets in our solar system). Then they could double the levy each time a person travels by air to another country more than once a year. After a few times of travel a year that could amount to millions per ticket. It’s only fair.

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        PeterS

        The UN have uninvited only certain Western nations. Countries like China who is a huge coal user is allowed to attend. The agenda is clear; the transfer of wealth from developed to developing countries and the cutting down of the West so that countries like China and Russia can have more power over the world. It’s only natural since from their eyes they see the US has flexed its muscles too much too far over the past 100+ years. There is some truth in that but the UN is neglecting all the good the West has done to the world. It’s a phase transition we might have to live with where China could eventually become the centre of the world’s economy and power. That’s their plan for sure and they are doing everything they can to achieve that goal. The question is will the West allow it or work together with them to try and reach some sort of compromise? More likely the West will destroy itslef from within as we are seeing right now here. Apathy is king in the West, especially here.

        20

        • #
          TdeF

          I don’t think it’s a West/East thing. Nuclear club members China and India want the $100Bn a year demanded by the UN. It’s the innate communism of the UN.

          Of course that’s called socialism but it’s always about the power and especially the money. The Climate story is rubbish, a useful guilt trip for politicians and the soft and caring underbelly of Western democracies. Like race guilt, colonialism guilt, privelege guilt, quality of life guilt and now coal power guilt. Then all white people are racist. No one else. Reparations. Climate cash. Pay up.

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          • #
            PeterS

            No it’s more a West/West thing. Empires typically decline and implode from within. China and Russia will just take advantage of the situation.

            10

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Aims of the USA Communist Party:

            “Congressional Record–Appendix, pp. A34-A35
            January 10, 1963
            Current Communist Goals

            EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA
            IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

            Thursday, January 10, 1963

            Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.
            At Mrs. Nordman’s request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following “Current Communist Goals,” which she identifies as an excerpt from “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen:

            [From “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen]

            “11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces.

            ………..

            “17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

            “18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

            “19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

            “20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

            “21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

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            • #
              Greg in NZ

              “19. Use student riots to foment public protests against…”
              Surely the oldies wouldn’t use the young’ns to do their dirty work? Say it ain’t so! Oh no –

              https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/399244/teens-campaign-to-lower-voting-age-to-16

              “The ‘Make It 16′ campaign leaders are hoping will hope the role of young people in the current climate strikes could persuade the legislators to lower it again, and truly make it 16″. Written like a true, confused, sixteen-year-old kid – via some $oro$ stooge.

              “21. Gain control of… motion pictures”. No – not the flicks!!!

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          “cutting down of the West so that countries like China and Russia can have more power over the world.”
          Sorry i dont agree here. China and Russia do not need power over the world. Who starts the wars? Who has the bases?
          Its not in Chinese philosophy to conquer or run the rest of the world.

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          • #
            Mary E

            The Chinese have, in the past, considered themselves to be the world – no need conquering themselves, as long as no insurrection is fomented. But even the thought of fomenting insurrection (or anti-party-line anything) within “the world” of China is dealt with swiftly and harshly, usually permanently. I doubt the ruling elites have much changed their thoughts on this – they simply see little need to wage a military excursion now when economics and politics is so much cheaper, the populace is pretty much under control and the legal system is heavily weighted in favor of the government.

            The Russians want their breadbasket, oil fields and sea ports back – all those little countries they over-ran to “free” the people from capitalistic rulers were taken because they had something the Russian leader(s) wanted. And needed. A little less draconian (now, as far as we know) than the Chinese in maintaining order and meting out punishment, but still not a place to hold protests without expecting injury, jail, even death. They also want to be certain the Chinese don’t look their way for more resources. It’s possible the Russians hope the Chinese have inflated their military abilities as much as they themselves have.

            Both the Russians and the Chinese have more to fear from each other than from anyone else. And we have more to fear from the Chinese than anyone else (aside from the less than stable small countries with nuclear capability that are run by less than stable autocrats.)

            I wonder if the Russians, or the Chinese, have thought about just how a socialist USA/North America or Europe would act towards them? There is no guarantee the US/North America or Europe would look upon the Russian or Chinese flavors of socialism as worthy of emulating, or even allowing….

            01

            • #
              theRealUniverse

              OK get this either go to unz.com if you dare…………….or search for an author by the name of Andre Vitchek! and read about the criminals trying to destabilize HK!

              00

        • #
          Serp

          Maurice Strong, inspirational force behind the creation of the UNFCCC, his criminality exposed escapes incarceration by fleeing to China where he dies.

          Are we to infer that China, the world’s preeminent coal consumer, earned its New York exemption in virtue of having shielded the reputation of the originator of the climate circus?

          Let’s get out of the Paris accord and repeal everything associated with the RET and pray we can do it soon enough to save the country from the bizarre Green New Deal type programs advocated by Labor and the Greens.

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          • #
            theRealUniverse

            I agree that was weird. Yes he died there. Im not sure whether he had any influence or not. Generally the Chinese gov dont take one persons word for anything, policy is based on input from many sources. Possibly someone listened to his idiotic rhetoric, hard to tell exactly.

            00

            • #
              Greg in NZ

              I thought he karked it in Xinhua as well but Wicked Peedya ‘claims’ he went back to Ontario to RIP – Rot In Perfidy. His sister was a buddy of Mao’s in earlier decades (I read somewhere) plus Peking Uni graced him with all sorts of ™sustainable™ chairships and professorships and all sorts of ship. One sick puppy. Burn whaka burn.

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    • #
      destroyer D69

      The louder the flak is the closer you are to the target OR something you are not supposed to see. (Old Bomber Command story)

      00

  • #
    Robber

    “The best books… are those that tell you what you know already.” “Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.” “Orthodoxy means not thinking–not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”― “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”
    - George Orwell, 1984
    The Conversation is now The Con, The Ministry of Truth, The Thought Police, Newspeak, The Orwellian, Big Brother.

    60

  • #
    Broadie

    The CON-treception

    Sterilizing the Natural Cycle of Scientific Thought

    60

  • #
    duncanm

    The doctor analogy is somewhat amusing.

    What if I went to 20 doctors in 1980 with a peptic ulcer? Were they all right?

    The medical consensus on gastric ulcers was completely blown apart by a nay-sayer, Dr Robin Warren, who went on to win the Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine.

    50

    • #
      Another Ian

      Not necessarily any doctor’s opinion.

      Our rural area’s medical clinic has a high rate of turnover of medical staff due to being part of a larger system.

      The “old boy’s network” has found it wise to pass on the names of any that seem to know what they are doing.

      Gets one’s attention when a new recruit, reviewing a patient’s pill list, says

      “Why are you on that? You’ve got an ulcer – that will kill you”

      10

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    And so, like Saruman, they reveal themselves …

    ‘We declare our support for Extinction Rebellion’: an open letter from Australia’s academics
    Leading academics from around the country say it is their moral duty to rebel to ‘defend life itself’
    • Hundreds of Australian academics declare support for climate rebellion

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/sep/20/we-declare-our-support-for-extinction-rebellion-an-open-letter-from-australias-academics

    10

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Its going to end in tears.

      Ironically, this academic foolishness may result in their own demise. A scenario that might unfold is pursuing the climate nonsense to its logical conclusion – no electricty, no life.

      But academics never were that smart. Intelligent – yes, smart, no.

      00

  • #
    Salome

    If I am told that I ‘need’ an operation, the only reason I wouldn’t have it would be that it would be likely to have some serious disabling effect on me. If I lived through the next 10 years, even in deteriorating health (hey, that’s the human condition, isn’t it?) but without the serious disabling effect of the operation, I’d really wonder why the doctor kept telling me I needed it.

    10

  • #
    pat

    unbelievable:

    AUDIO: 7min49sec: 20 Sept: ABC Breakfast: New Red Cross report warns of humanitarian cost of climate change
    Presenter: Geraldine Doogue
    Millions of young people will take to the streets across the globe today, demanding more action on climate change ahead of a United Nations summit in New York.
    Even before the summit has kicked off, fresh alarm bells are ringing, with a new report warning the humanitarian and financial cost of climate change will balloon unless urgent action is taken.
    The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies has just launched its report, called The Cost of Doing Nothing, at the UN.
    Guest: Francesco Rocca, president, International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/red-cross-report-warns-of-humanitarian-cost-of-climate-change/11531236

    AUDIO: 7min14sec: 20 Sept: ABC Breakfast: Students skipping classes and exams to join global climate strike
    Presenter: Geraldine Doogue
    Thousands of people are expected to attend climate protests around Australia today as part of a global day of action inspired by 16-year-old Swedish activist Greta Thunberg.
    The “school strikers” will skip classes, and in some cases exams, to demand more government action on emissions.
    Federal Education Minister Dan Tehan has weighed in, linking the protests to poor results in the NAPLAN writing tests.
    Guests:
    Jean Hinchliffe, climate strike organiser
    Peter Strong, chief executive, Council of Small Business Organisations Australia
    Andrew Pierpoint, president, Australian Secondary Principals’ Association
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/students-skipping-classes,-exams-to-join-global-climate-strike/11531394

    10

  • #
    pat

    MULTIPLE PICS: 19 Sept: ABC: Students are fighting climate change, one TikTok video at a time
    RN By technology reporter Ariel Bogle for the Specialist Reporting Team and Farz Edraki for RN
    PIC: Young climate activists like Tara Bellerose are increasingly finding big audiences online. (ABC News: Lucy Kent)
    From a farm in the Victorian highlands, the 21-year-old uses the controversial video app TikTok to share what she believes are urgent messages about climate change — and point users to Friday’s global climate strike.
    As a young farmer, Tara experiences increasingly unpredictable weather first-hand.
    This year was supposed to be dry. Instead, it’s been wet, flooding her crops away to “basically nothing”…

    Grace (Western Sydney organiser for the Australian Youth Climate Coalition) suggests the democratic nature of the app also allows more diverse voices to be heard.
    “There’s a really big shift away from the Eurocentric and now American-centric views of how social media should function,” she says.
    “You have people from Alice Springs on there who get just as many likes as [a] random white American teenage boy.”…

    TWEET: tom scott, Video producer for @BuzzFeedOz
    Just discovered the @AYCC (Australian Youth Climate Coalition) are on TikTok and they’re quite good
    VIDEO 15 secs (Countries leading the way on renewables – Germany, Morocco, Scotland – mock PM Scott Morrison)
    25 Aug 2019
    https://twitter.com/tgs/status/1165563087820214272

    PIC: Farmer and climate activist Tara Bellerose has over 342,000 followers on TikTok. (ABC News: Patrick Stone)
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-19/tiktok-youth-led-climate-activism-school-strike/11520474

    the ABC writers:

    TWEET: Ariel Bogle, Technology Reporter @ABCscience
    A look at the dynamics of TikTok activism and the #climatestrike from
    @FarzEdraki and I. The humour is dark, guys, cos the kids know it’s messy out there. LINK
    https://twitter.com/arielbogle/status/1174457748290822145

    TWEET: Farz Edraki, Online @radionational producer + writer. Sometimes at @abctv
    1) We watched a lot of TikTok videos for this…
    2) & make sure you catch @arielbogle on the 7pm news tonight & listen to The World Today:
    https://twitter.com/FarzEdraki/status/1174588920941572096

    AUDIO: 3min 44sec: 19 Sept: ABC The World Today: Students use TikTok to rally ahead of tomorrow’s climate strike
    By Ariel Bogle on The World Today
    Offices, worksites, and classrooms around the world will be emptier than normal tomorrow, with millions of people expected to take part in the global strike for the climate.
    And support for this protest is growing in the corporate sector, with more than 1,700 businesses giving their employees the greenlight to strike.
    But it’s a group of savvy young Australians who are taking the lead.
    Featured:
    Grace Vegesana, Western Sydney organiser, Australian Youth Climate Coalition
    Tim Costello, director, Micah Australia
    Tara Bellerose, Victorian Highlands farmer
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/worldtoday/students-use-tiktok-to-rally-ahead-of-tomorrows-climate-strike/11527956

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    • #
      TdeF

      Ridiculous.

      “As a young farmer, Tara experiences increasingly unpredictable weather first-hand.
      This year was supposed to be dry. Instead, it’s been wet, flooding her crops away to “basically nothing”…

      Is this a joke?

      If it was a drought that would be climate change.
      If it rains, that’s climate change.

      What a surprise in a “land of droughts and flooding rains”. That’s the Australian climate.

      And “supposed to be dry”? Now the weather predictions are guaranteed? By whom? The weather is not controlled by the government.

      What about building a dam and praying for rain not complaining when you get what you need?
      Perhaps young farmers need to learn farming? It’s all about managing water, not complaining about the Climate.

      I seriously doubt this was written by a ‘young farmer’.

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        When I was a kid (other side of the Tasman) even we kiwis learned that some Australian kids had never seen rain. So Australia is a large flat dry continent. What else is suddenly new to these people?

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Ah but in the age of smartphones, everyone knows everything……

          Its like dealing with teenagers – they know everything, apparently…which is why they vote ( not ), cant sign legal documents , and arent trusted unsupervised with firearms.

          The Age of Willfull Ignorance is upon us.

          “Enlightened” people laugh at religion as “non-progressive” and “stone age” – but have created a climate superstition to replace what they mock. Is that dumb or what?

          Idiots.

          20

    • #
      Annie

      ‘Savvy’? Another annoying modern usage, which for me signifies an ‘air-head’ preoccupation with something trivial. These striking youths and ‘academics’ seem far from wise.

      40

  • #
    pat

    on the other hand, on ABC-TV’s 7.30 Report (see their transcript, if u wish) Peter Ridd is not asked to participate; is not given a voice. indeed, theirABC makes sure he is not ***heard:

    18 Sept: ABC: Great Barrier Reef may go on endangered list if run-off laws don’t pass, Queensland Environment Minister warns
    7.30 By Peter McCutcheon
    AgForce argues Dr Ridd should be ***heard.
    “It’s tragic when people who want to contribute positively to an important debate, the vitriol that follows, the personal attacks that follow are quite disappointing,” Mr Guerin said…
    The rural lobby group wants another panel appointed to review the scientific evidence.
    “It might just give us some insight and learning that we don’t currently have and that would give us an even better outcome,” Mr Guerin said.

    The push to recheck the science has been supported by the federal Coalition, which has approved a Senate inquiry into reef water quality.
    But Ms Enoch says another review is unnecessary.
    “We are a responsible government and any responsible government only uses peer reviewed published science.”
    Professor Brodie agrees.
    “We have hundreds and hundreds of scientists looking at thousands of pieces of scientific research and to suggest that’s not enough and that Peter Ridd knows more than all those people is just ludicrous,” he said.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-18/great-barrier-reef-farm-run-off-endangered-list/11521800

    why the smirking laugh at the end, Geraldine, when Paul Schembri mentions farmers and the science?

    AUDIO: 10min57sec: 20 Sept: ABC Breakfast: Qld farmers protest new Great Barrier Reef run-off regulation laws
    Presenter: Geraldine Doogue
    Environmental groups have hailed the move, but many farmers are furious, saying the new rules will cripple their businesses.
    Guest: Paul Schembri, chair, Canegrowers Queensland
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/qld-farmers-protest-new-great-barrier-reef-run-off-regulation/11531450

    10

  • #
    Greg Cavanagh

    Regarding the “trust your doctor or Climate God” excuse.

    Isn’t it also true that you always got a second, or even a third opinion of a doctor if the first diagnosis was something dramatic?

    Does anyone still get a second doctor’s opinion anymore?

    20

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    But…but…err…ah…haven’t they been so-o-o-o-o honest? Just ask them, their words are so, so straight arrow. Just ask them. They’ll tell you the truth.

    10

  • #
  • #
  • #
    pat

    18 Sept: WashingtonExaminer: Goose eggs: No climate doomsday warning has come true
    by Paul Bedard
    On the eve of a “global climate strike,” a new report revealed that none of the global warming doomsday predictions of the past 50 years have come true.
    “Modern doomsayers have been predicting climate and environmental disaster since the 1960s. They continue to do so today,” said the analysis from the Competitive Enterprise Institute (LINK) shared with Secrets.

    “None of the apocalyptic predictions with due dates as of today have come true,” it added.
    The report cites 30 predictions made by experts, government scientists, and global leaders, including former Vice President Al Gore and Britain’s Prince Charles…
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/goose-eggs-no-climate-doomsday-warning-has-come-true

    18 Sept: CompetitiveEnterpriseInstitute: Wrong Again: 50 Years of Failed Eco-pocalyptic Predictions
    by Myron Ebell, Steven J. Milloy
    https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions

    20

  • #
  • #
    Kevin Anderson

    Mad science “SCoPEx” extinction scheme to block the sun by polluting the entire planet detailed in “Oblivion Agenda” lecture video now posted

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-09-19-scopex-scheme-polluting-the-entire-planet-video.html

    10

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      “That’s the real goal of the program, of course. It’s a “mass extinction” weapon system that’s funded by globalists to annihilate humankind by taking out the food webs that support human life. This is nothing less than the weaponization of the atmosphere to commit genocide on a planetary scale.”

      This is so insane it bears not thinking about. If they really try it it really demands global action by the likes of us on here. Protests anyone?
      Also if they try it and it worked, then with a GSM, we would be in for a real disaster.
      But, Im not convinced that it would work. It would have to be continuously applied which would require huge costs in flights almost continuously to replenish the blocking agent which would with stratospheric winds disperse eventually leaving holes. The Sun has so many orders of magnitude more energy than little old humans can manage. The sun is our friend!

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Also
      https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-08-30-nasa-admits-climate-change-not-caused-by-suvs-fossil-fuels.html
      Well they have to. I suspect that this sort of thing is release by secret ‘deniers’ inside NASA that are aware of the fake climate scam pushed by the (NASA) management.

      10

  • #
    Maptram

    No doubt The Conversation will cover in detail the thousands of people who participate in the climate strike, but no mention will be made of the tens of thousands who are inconvenienced by it, who must drive further than normal to go about their business. Nor will they mention the thousands who will see an opportunity for an early start to the school holidays.

    30

  • #
    Another Ian

    Hmmm! Perhaps one should be waryof “The Answer”?

    “The Conversation Commissioner”

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2019/09/20/the-conversation-commissioner/

    10

  • #
    PeterS

    Thanks Jo,
    A powerful critical review of “The Conversation”’s madness.
    However, I know from experience it has always been thus.

    20

  • #
    pat

    no mention of inconvienence in any of the following:

    AUDIO: 4min10sec: 20 Sept: ABC The World Today: Students across Australia cutting class for climate change
    By Julia Holman on The World Today
    Australia’s at the forefront of the protests, with more than 120 countries set to follow in what’s being described as a “global day of action”…
    Featured:
    Climate strike protesters in Sydney
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/worldtoday/students-across-australia-cutting-class-for-climate-change/11532340

    20 Sept: ABC: National school strike for climate sees thousands of businesses join children in climate rallies
    Posted 28 minutes ago
    Tens of thousands turned out at The Domain in Sydney for the rally there…
    Australia endured its hottest summer on record during 2018-19, according to the Climate Council, when more than 200 extreme weather records were broken across the country…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-20/thousands-of-businesses-join-national-school-strike-for-climate/11531612

    20 Sept: Mobile ABC: National School Strike for Climate sees students across the country planning to skip school
    By Rhiannon Shine
    Updated about an hour ago
    PIC: The test Siobhan Sutton is missing accounts for 25 per cent of her mark, but she says it is worth it.
    Siobhan Sutton is an academically talented high school student, but is proudly choosing to fail a maths test today.

    Australian school protesters want the Federal Government to commit to:
    •No new coal, oil or gas projects
    •100 per cent renewable energy generation and exports by 2030
    •Funding for “a just transition and job creation for all fossil-fuel industry workers and communities”

    VIDEO: 57sec: (note the preponderance of girls)

    Siobhan said her maths teacher had given her the option to sit the test before school on Friday, but she was unable to do so because of her commitments as one of the organisers of the climate strike.
    She would also rather fail the test in order to take a clear stance on the issue.
    Her mother Antje said she was very proud of her daughter…

    PIC: Siobhan Sutton’s mother Antje supports her daughter’s decision to skip school for the climate strike.
    (ABC News: Rhiannon Shine)…

    A new report by the International Federation of Red Cross titled The Cost of Doing Nothing estimated that by 2050, 200 million people every year may need international humanitarian aid as a result of climate–related disasters and the socioeconomic impact of climate change.
    https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-20/national-climate-strike-students-across-australia-skip-school/11528100

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Australian school brainwashed protesters want the Federal Government to commit to:

      …Funding for “a just transition and job creation for all fossil-fuel industry workers and communities” Yep, put thousands of fossil-fuel industry workers out of work. Just what these fascists want. Create chaos.
      Non of their demands will work.

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      • #
        destroyer D69

        I am wondering how much assistance or guidance was offered in the design or the message of the placards.I very much doubt that there was NO input from adults in the production and design of them.

        20

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      “200 million people every year may need international humanitarian aid as a result of climate–related disasters scams denying them the right to reliable energy supply from coal and gas”

      10

  • #
    pat

    ABC The World Today followed their “climate strike” piece with this:

    AUDIO: 3min53sec: 20 Sept: ABC The World Today: The disappearing birds of North America
    By Louise Crealy on The World Today
    In what is a terrifying glimpse at the problems confronting future generations comes this study from scientists in North America.
    They’ve found birds are disappearing at an alarming rate in United States and Canada, with new data showing a population drop of one-third since 1970.
    That’s a loss of almost three billion birds, and scientists say people are to blame
    Featured:
    ***Peter Marra, director, Georgetown Environment Initiative, Georgetown University
    Sean Dooley, scientist, Bird Life Australia
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/worldtoday/the-disappearing-birds-of-north-america/11532384

    ***Marra only joined Georgetown in April:

    3 Apr: Georgetown Uni: Leading Smithsonian Scientist to Direct Georgetown Environment Initiative
    ***Peter Marra, a leading environment and conservation expert, has been named director of the Georgetown Environment Initiative (GEI), the Laudato Si’ (THINK POPE FRANCIS) Professor in Biology and the Environment, and professor in the McCourt School of Public Policy…
    https://www.georgetown.edu/news/leading-smithsonian-scientist-to-direct-georgetown-environment-initiative

    he’s quick:

    19 Sept: GeorgetownUni: Ecological Crisis: U.S., Canada Lost One in Four Birds in the Past 50 Years
    Nearly 3 billion birds have disappeared from the United States and Canada since 1970, according to a study published today in Science, co-authored by Georgetown Environment Initiative (GEI) director Peter Marra…
    https://www.georgetown.edu/news/us-canada-lost-nearly-three-billion-birds-in-past-fifty-years

    29 Jan: GeorgetownUni: Georgetown Community Invited to Apply for New Sustainability Funding Opportunity
    A new fund named after ***Pope Francis’ groundbreaking encyclical on the environment will support Georgetown faculty, students and staff in pursuing projects designed to strengthen the university community’s response to global and local sustainability challenges…
    The new Laudato Si’ Fund grants will be awarded in spring 2019 with project completion expected before the end of the 2020 academic year (or within approximately 12 months)…
    https://www.georgetown.edu/news/georgetown-community-invited-to-apply-for-new-sustainability-effort-funding

    lengthy:

    20 Sept: ABC: Bird populations are collapsing, and it’s a sign of a bigger problem
    ABC Science By environment reporter Nick Kilvert
    VIDEO: 14sec
    There are now 2.9 billion — about 29 per cent — fewer birds in North America than in 1970, according to research published today in the journal Science (LINK)…
    And that’s a trend across much of the globe that is going hand-in-hand with a rapid decline in insects…
    VIDEO 5sec ETC ETC ETC
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-09-20/birds-collapse-us-bees-ecology-environment/11520008?pfmredir=ms

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      No mention that I saw about the bird-killing performance of windfarms. I wonder why?
      Cheers
      Dave B

      30

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Zero carbon bird-killing is OK with Gaia, apparently.
        Zap-frying them with solar farms is kosher too.
        You’ve been thinking for yourself too much, David:
        100 hours of ABC re-education for you and an essay thereafter on
        ‘Why I Love My ABC Truth So Much’.

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    pat

    theirABC is all over social media:

    TWEET: Phoebe Hosier, Reporter @abchobart previously @abcdarwin
    Two students have read impassioned poems to a record Hobart crowd about the world they wish to live in and the negligence of a government that fails to listen. “Activism is education and this is our classroom,” teen activist Toby told a cheering crowd @abchobart #ClimateStrike PICS
    https://twitter.com/HosierPhoebe/status/1174895945974075393

    no sign of 22,000 the organisers claim in Hobart:

    TWEET: Phoebe Hosier, Reporter @abchobart previously @abcdarwin
    Organisers say there are some 22,000 people at Hobart’s global climate rally – they say this is the biggest strike action Tasmania has ever seen @abchobart
    VIDEO 10sec
    AliceB: More white crowds. Where are all the People of color?…
    I’ve seen 3 clips of Australian climate activist crowds and it appears to me the crowds are all white. I’ve even slowed down the clips to look closely. I find it interesting because I know that Australia has a very diverse population but it doesn’t appear evident in these clips
    https://twitter.com/HosierPhoebe/status/1174877712948707331

    Facebook: ABC Brisbane
    VIDEO: 25min18sec
    #LIVE: Thousands of people are marching to Musgrave Park as part of the School Strike for Climate movement, calling for more action on climate change
    from comments:
    Replying to Johnny
    Sharon Lee Shaw · 11:42 Actually China is doing things to change.. wind turbines, solar and solar hot water on buildings and housing, public transport all electric including rubbish trucks, every 3rd or fourth car electric or hybrid, all motor bikes electric they cannot be sold petrol as they have to be electric.. loads of recycling and planting of trees and plants everywhere.. maybe you should check it out for yourself, I was just over there, they haven’t won yet but they are on their way, as we do nothing.. except say ohhh China and India aren’t doing anything why should we!!!!

    Lorraine Palmer:
    older adults are they all in mature schooling. men with prams, women with prams, all the unemployed what a great way to waste a day.
    https://www.facebook.com/abcinbrisbane/videos/504703750317441/

    Facebook: ABC Adelaide
    Climate Strike rally in Adelaide’s Victoria Square PIC
    https://www.facebook.com/abcadelaide/photos/pcb.10162548849475604/10162548848225604/?type=3&__tn__=HH-R&eid=ARBMurpOqk_3294L38iZMH-WmIihl_SyHzqQD9c8VrCzy151vml_Rqm3MO3-4L-LHTdS52K7m9lwthEK

    10

  • #
    Zane

    Green Stalinism. Skeptics will be sent to the climate gulag.

    20

  • #
    pat

    virtually the entire Mornings prog on ABC Brisbane is given over to the protest, one way or another. as suspected, Terri’s promised very high-profile Australian guest is Flim Flam:

    AUDIO: 20 Sept: ABC Brisbane Mornings: Terri Begley
    listen to intro, makes way for the great Tim Flannery (Flannery interview ends 12min50sec;
    Terri says after 10am she will have someone who has done a lot of research into protests) & at 1h38min50sec Terri reprises Flannery briefy.

    1h47min13sec to 2h00min42sec: Professor Winnifred Louis, School of Psychology, Uni of Queensland, who has written extensively on the history of protests, etc. .
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/brisbane/programs/focus/mornings/11513004

    The Conversation: Bio: Winnifred (Louis) Professor, Social Psychology, The University of Queensland, graduated from the University of Toronto with a B.Sc. in psych and a minor in socio-cultural anthropology, having done her honours thesis on stereotyping and subtyping (with Ken Dion and Kerry Kawakami). She went to McGill and did an MSc with Don Taylor on responses to discrimination and a PhD with him on decision-making in conflict. She came to UQ in 2001 to work with Debbie Terry on a postdoctoral fellowship from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada. Winnifred obtained a continuing position at UQ In 2005, received tenure and was promoted to Senior Lecturer in 2008, then to Associate Professor in 2013 and Professor in 2018…
    Her research interests focus on the influence of identity and norms on social decision-making. She has studied this broad topic in contexts from political activism to peace psychology to health and the environment.
    https://theconversation.com/profiles/winnifred-louis-3612

    Uni of Qld: Dept of Psychology: Professor Winnifred Louis
    Publications
    https://psychology.uq.edu.au/profile/2395/winnifred-louis

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  • #
    pat

    nothing politically partisan about the climate strikes!

    20 Sept: ProBonoAustralia: Aussie Students Strike for Climate Change Action
    by Luke Michael
    A number of Australian charities have got behind the students, including Save the Children, whose CEO Paul Ronalds said he was inspired by the motivation and strong will of participating students.
    “Young people have a right to be heard on the issues that are important to them and this show of global awareness is incredibly impressive from our future leaders,” Ronalds said.
    “School is important, but so too is making sure children’s voices are heard in a world run by adults.”…

    The protests have been criticised by a number of federal government MPs, who said students should not be striking during school hours.
    Education Minister Dan Tehan told the ABC he would meet with the students to discuss their concerns outside of school hours…
    But NSW Labor leader Michael Daley threw his support behind the students, telling the ABC: “They do have a democratic right of assembly, they do have a right to protest.”

    Amnesty International Australia’s campaigns manager Tim O’Connor said he was deeply disappointed to hear reports of students being threatened with expulsion because of the protests…
    “The fact is that young people, the future leaders of Australia, are frustrated their voices aren’t being heard by our government, who have failed to meaningfully address climate change.”…

    TWEET: GetUp!
    Leadership PIC
    https://probonoaustralia.com.au/news/2019/03/aussie-students-strike-climate-change-action/

    by a regular on theirABC, Rachael Sharman:

    20 Sept: The Conversation: Ignoring young people’s climate change fears is a recipe for anxiety
    (This story is part of Covering Climate Now, a global collaboration of more than 250 news outlets to strengthen coverage of the climate story)
    by Rachael Sharman, Senior Lecturer in Psychology, University of the Sunshine Coast
    and Patrick D. Nunn, Professor of Geography, School of Social Sciences, University of the Sunshine Coast
    Disclosure statement
    Patrick D. Nunn receives funding from the Australian Research Council, the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada, and the Natural Environment Research Council (UK).

    There are plenty of evidence-based projections of future climate readily available, such as the work of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).
    But then there are denial, scepticism and misconceptions about climate change that confuse people and create unnecessary fear and anxiety, especially in school-age students…

    Young people are still developing their ability to critically reason, contextualise and realistically assess risk. They are vulnerable to emotion-charged information and less likely to understand the possible agendas of people with differing ideas.
    Fear and anxiety about climate change…

    Some climate scientists and activists believe we have started a chain reaction that is almost irreversible.
    Most climate scientists are careful not to talk about predictions of future climate and favour model-informed projections…
    Climate change isn’t new so we will need to work together to care for the Earth and one another…
    Listening to the valid concerns of school students, and engaging them in discussions about the mitigation and adaptation strategies we will need to adopt, will go some way towards easing their fears and anxieties.
    https://theconversation.com/ignoring-young-peoples-climate-change-fears-is-a-recipe-for-anxiety-123357

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  • #
    pat

    20 Sept: ClimateChangeNews: More than 100 countries applied (to address) for UN climate summit, half were rejected
    Only leaders the UN views as having an ambitious new plan were offered a platform, with dozens failing to make the cut
    By Chloé Farand
    Neither US president Donald Trump, Brazil’s Jair Bolsonaro nor Australia’s Scott Morrison are attending the summit…
    South Africa’ president Cyril Ramaphosa will not attend any events…
    China, India, France, Germany and the UK are all due to speak at the summit.

    But in a statement published on Tuesday, India said it was not in position to enhance its climate plan, leaving uncertainties over what prime minister Narendra Modi has to bring. There are also few signs Beijing is ready to announce anything significant…
    https://climatechangenews.com/2019/09/19/100-countries-applied-un-climate-summit-half-rejected/

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  • #
    pat

    I wonder why Google’s AlGoreithms are so mean to CAGW sceptical publications!

    19 Sept: Engadget: Google to invest record-breaking amount in renewable energy
    The announcement comes in advance of the Global Climate Strike.
    by Amrita Khalid
    Google today announced its intention to spend more than $2 billion in new renewable energy infrastructure across the US, South America and Europe. The 1,600-megawatt package of wind and solar agreements includes 18 new energy deals and will increase the tech giant’s renewable energy portfolio by more than 40 percent. The company said the purchase will amount to the largest in corporate history…

    Hundreds of employees of tech companies such as Google, Microsoft and Amazon are expected to participate in the protest, which will occur in at least 150 countries over the course of a week.
    https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/19/google-to-invest-record-breaking-amount-in-renewable-energy/

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  • #
    pat

    further info re Reuters’ article – comment #32:

    19 Sept: Montel: China behind bulk of world’s coal growth plans – report
    by Nathan Witkop, Bonn
    The Global Coal Exit List tallied 579 GW of plans for coal-fired power stations around the world compared to an existing fleet of 2,026 GW.
    China, the world’s largest coal consumer, had the biggest pipeline of potential projects coming in at 226 GW, or roughly 23% of the country’s existing fleet.
    India came in distant second place with 92 GW – a 41% expansion – followed by Turkey with 34 GW, which would effectively triple the country’s coal-fired capacity.

    “While the global coal plant pipeline shrank by over 50% in the past three years, new coal plants are still planned or under development in 60 countries around the world,” said Germany’s Urgewald, which operates the database with help from around 30 other green groups internationally…

    Investors still investing
    Out of the 30 companies which account for half of the world’s thermal coal production, 24 were still pursuing plans to increase their coal production, according to the database’s records…

    The 746 companies monitored by the database represent ***89% of the world’s thermal coal production and almost 87% of the world’s installed coal-fired capacity***, according to Urgewald…
    https://www.montelnews.com/en/story/china-behind-bulk-of-worlds-coal-growth-plans–report/1044193

    ***so there is more!

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  • #
    pat

    19 Sept: Breitbart: Report: China Leads the World in Future Coal Power Projects
    by Simon Kent
    The rise and rise of coal power in China follows a call (LINK) in March by the industry’s powerful China Electrical Council for ramping up the national coal power capacity to as much as 1,300 gigawatts by 2030, a 30 percent increase compared to today’s levels…
    Despite its love of coal, China as well as India, the world’s two biggest builders of new coal stations, have been given special leeway to speak at next week’s U.N. special climate change conference.

    Japan, South Africa, and Australia as well as the U.S. were denied a platform to speak at the same event as their support for coal contradicts U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres’s personal drive for a global emergency on climate change.
    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2019/09/19/report-china-leads-the-world-in-new-coal-power-projects/

    19 Sept: BusinessLiveSouthAfrica: Despite being so hated, coal companies are growing, report finds
    Urgewald, in partnership with 30 other NGOs, reveals that 400 out of 746 coal companies, intend to expand their operations
    by Lisa Steyn
    Out of the 30 companies that account for half of the world’s thermal coal production, 24 are pursuing plans to still increase their coal production,” the statement said.
    The exit list includes 34 companies that are “coal infrastructure expansionists”; it includes the Indian company Essar, which is building a coal export terminal in Mozambique, and Russia’s VostokCoal, which is building two coal port terminals on the Tamyr peninsula to begin mining one of the world’s largest hard-coal deposits in the Russian Arctic.
    https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/business-and-economy/2019-09-19-despite-being-so-hated-coal-companies-are-growing-report-finds/

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  • #
    pat

    read all…3 pages, but only pages 1 and 2 are required reading:

    17 Sept: GadgetGuy: 700+ dodgy solar installers rip-off over 650,000 homeowners #Stop the energy rip-off
    by Ray Shaw
    More than 700+ dodgy solar installers have gone broke or out of business since 2011 according to battery supplier LG Energy. This affects some 650,000 homeowners from over two million installs. No industry should have a 33% ‘orphan rate’.

    LG Energy took the bold step of publishing the list of 700+ dodgy solar installers here (LINK), but that is cold comfort for those who cannot get warranty on often very dodgy systems. In NSW alone the solar regulator has declared that some 20% of installations have severe faults, and 60% have serious deficiencies…

    And don’t even start on batteries…
    The National Audit Office found some of the risks of cheap or poorly installed batteries include electric shock, gas explosion, fire, and chemical exposure.
    But more importantly, the payback argument used for solar panels is not so applicable to batteries…

    The more I investigate solar and battery power, the more I think it’s a sick joke imposed on us by bureaucrats to meet theoretical renewable energy targets. And let’s not get started on our artificially high energy prices either…
    https://www.gadgetguy.com.au/700-dodgy-solar-installers-rip-off-over-650000-homeowners-stop-the-energy-rip-off/

    A CAIRNS medical facility has been evacuated after a fire broke out on the roof
    Herald Sun – 18 Sept 2019
    A CAIRNS medical facility has been evacuated after a fire broke out on the roof. Firefighters were called to the Cairns Hand Clinic on Martyn St in Parramatta Park about 12.50pm. … It is understood the solar panels on the roof of the building caught alight, but have since been extinguished…

    19 Sept: FOX31: Solar panels catch fire on Louisville home
    by Matt Mauro
    LOUISVILLE, Colo. – A woman in Louisville has a warning about residential rooftop solar panels after hers caught fire.
    Briana Greer was out of town in August when a fire sparked on her rooftop solar panels. Neighbors helped put the fire out, but not before it damaged three panels and her roof.
    Greer had been leasing the panels from SolarCity, now owned by Tesla, for about two years.

    The Problem Solvers have learned she’s not alone with the fire.
    News reports from across the country have shown other Tesla panels that have caught fire too.
    In fact, Walmart is now suing Tesla because of numerous fires at its stores that it says were caused by Tesla panels…
    Telsa told the FOX31 Problem Solvers its solar panels are safe and very rarely catch fire…
    https://kdvr.com/2019/09/19/solar-panels-catch-fire-on-louisville-home/

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    • #
      Serp

      Gadget Guy paints a picture even worse than that of Rudd’s roof insulation scheme; today we all know about inflammable building cladding but in the years to come revelations about problems with solar roof panels will likely dwarf that national scandal.

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  • #
    pat

    PICS: 17 Sept: BallaratCourier: Lightning strike blamed for wind turbine blade damage at Lal Lal Wind Farm
    by Michelle Smith
    Lal Lal Wind Farm operators have confirmed a lightning strike caused a giant wind turbine blade to break and fall to the ground during a storm on Sunday.
    About 6.40pm, during the storm, a blade fell to the ground from a V-136 3.6 megawatt turbine.
    Vestas, which operates the Lal Lal Wind Farm east of Ballarat, said there were no injuries and no further damage to the turbine structure as a result of the loss of the blade…

    As a precaution, turbines in the Yendon section of the Lal Lal Wind Farm were switched off soon after the lightning storm.
    Lal Lal Wind Farm stretches across about 2100 hectares at Yendon and Elaine. Construction of the 60 massive wind turbines, which reach heights of more than 160m above ground, is forecast to be completed this month…
    Information on the company’s website says there are integrated lightning protection systems fitted to the blades to ensure they can withstand a direct strike without serious damage.

    “We can confirm that the turbine was struck by lightning however we still can’t comment on the root cause because we are still trying to determine it,” she said…
    https://www.thecourier.com.au/story/6391045/lightning-shatters-wind-turbine-blade-at-lal-lal/

    PICS: 19 Sept: ABC: 70m wind turbine blade blocks road after truck rollover near Bothwell in Tasmania
    A 60-tonne truck has rolled over near Bothwell, in Tasmania’s central highlands, leaving a 68-metre-long wind turbine blade that costs $300,000 across the road…
    Drivers were asked to avoid the rollover site, about 3 kilometres towards the Bothwell side of the intersection with Lower Marshes Road…
    Central Highlands Mayor Loueen Triffitt said the company building the wind farm had already done work to improve some sections of the road, and another section — near the Pub With No Beer caravan rest area — was waiting on an upgrade.

    “The [State] Government have committed $2 million to get that part of the road complete,” she said…
    Leigh Walters, the project director at the Cattle Hill Wind Farm said the company was not yet sure if the blade would be salvageable…
    Mr Walters said the blade was the 100th to be brought in for the project and that the company had spent about $11 million on road upgrades…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-19/wind-turbine-blade-blocks-tasmanian-road-after-truck-rollover/11527052

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    pat

    17 Sept: SmartEnergy: Finally: GE engineer shares reasons for multiple turbine failures
    After no less than 5 turbines collapses in both North and South America in 2019 left many in the wind energy industry scratching their heads, a top GE engineer, who has led the company’s investigations into the incidents, has shared findings, noting that in the case of the first four turbine collapses, several factors were to blame, rather than “a single systemic issue”.

    Ed Hall, engineering leader, onshore wind, at GE Renewable Energy told Recharge News that three collapses in the US, and two in Brazil resulted in the mobilisation of more than 100 people, and expertise from throughout the GE group.
    Whilst the latest incident in Brazil on 3 September is still under investigation, Hall shared findings for the first four turbine collapses, the earliest of which took place at the Casa Mesa Wind Energy Centre in eastern New Mexico, which had been in operation for less than six months…

    “Two of the incidents involved blades coming apart during the operation of the turbine in high wind speeds, but resulting from different contributing factors,” said Hall.
    “The other two incidents of the first four appear to be related to how our control systems responded to a sequence of events in the field…

    Hall said: “It’s not unknown for these types of incidents to happen in the industry. The industry overall documents around 90 incidents since 2011.”
    But he added: “It is unusual for us to see five in a relatively short time.”…READ ON
    https://www.smart-energy.com/renewable-energy/finally-ge-engineer-shares-reasons-for-multiple-turbine-failures/

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    pat

    19 Sept: PV Mag India: Preventing PV failures and fires hot topic at Quality Roundtable REI 2019
    PV magazine’s Quality Roundtable at this year’s Renewable Energy India (REI) Expo in Greater Noida saw industry experts touch upon issues arising out of wrong component selection and handling—including for cables and connectors to module mounting structures. They also shared the best practices to ensure long life of solar system installations.
    by Uma Gupta
    Following the best practices in component selection, installation and monitoring is key to avoid incidences like early PV system failures and sudden fires (as in the case of Walmart’s rooftop solar installations using Tesla panels). This was a major takeaway from the event, which was co-moderated by Jonathan Gifford, Editor in Chief Global, pv magazine group and Subrahmanyam Pulipaka, CEO, National Solar Energy Federation of India…

    The issue [of PV panels catching fires] is mainly because there is a lack of knowledge about how important small components like connectors are. As all the energy runs through connectors, it’s important to ensure they are good quality.
    “Correct insulation handling is equally important. The [Tesla panel fire] case is under investigation, but cross-connection between different brands of connectors—or incompatibility—is a likely cause,” he said…READ ON
    Read detailed discussions from the Quality Roundtable, held in India at REI 2019, in one of the upcoming pv magazine print editions.
    https://www.pv-magazine-india.com/2019/09/19/preventing-pv-failures-and-fires-hot-topic-at-quality-roundtable-rei-2019/

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    And more topical news, over 300,000 nationwide participated in the school strike from climate.

    14

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      opps – not from but for, nethertheless you know what I meant

      14

    • #
      AndyG55

      Day off from school with their mates…. yippee!!

      Tell us when they hold one on a weekend ;-)

      Tell us what about “climate” they are actually striking about?

      Apart from the slight El Nino warming, how has the “climate” changed in their lifetime?

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Do go and look up the definition of strike, or keep being the but of GA’s humour, IDK

        14

        • #
          AndyG55

          GA has no humour, a cackling parrot with the mentality of a 5 year old

          I wonder if he attended the skoolies day off.

          Nice deflection from answering the questions, though PF..

          Try again, little one..

          Tell us what about “climate” they are actually striking about?

          Apart from the slight El Nino warming, how has the “climate” changed in their lifetime?

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          so you now understand why it was not held on the weekend?
          I do not speak for them – this is from their web page
          The climate crisis is an emergency – we want everyone to start acting like it. We demand climate justice for everyone. Our hotter planet is already hurting millions of people. If we don’t act now to transition fairly and swiftly away from fossil fuels to 100% renewable energy for all, the injustice of the climate crisis will only get worse. We need to act right now to stop burning fossil fuels and ensure a rapid energy revolution with equity, reparations and climate justice at its heart.
          as opposed to climate, they have book learning to inform them, you have CAPS, adn BOLD, so you can guess which is more credible

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          • #
            AndyG55

            Scurry and run , duck and weave.. so funny, PF

            Tell us what about “climate” they are actually striking about?

            Apart from the slight El Nino warming, how has the “climate” changed in their
            lifetime?

            Tell us what about “climate” they are actually striking about?

            Apart from the slight El Nino warming, how has the “climate” changed in their lifetime?

            Tell us what about “climate” they are actually striking about?

            Apart from the slight El Nino warming, how has the “climate” changed in their lifetime?

            What is this “climate justice” you are rabbiting on about ? Another fantasy meme ?

            ——

            The one that PROVIDE EVIDENCE is the more credible, PF

            So.. Not you or any other of the AGW brigade.. !!

            ——

            “The climate crisis is an emergency”

            Really.. what emergency??

            An El Nino based warming of 0.4C in 40 years?

            All other climate indicators well within natural variability?

            Or just ignorant, gullible, brain-washed FANTASY. !!

            That is the real emergency,

            the fact that this can happen to school children,

            that they can be so easily led.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            Problem is the books that they learn from are baseless anti-science propaganda.

            That is the real emergency !!

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          • #
            AndyG55

            “the injustice of the climate crisis”

            What climate crisis ?????? , PF

            We are still waiting for you to tell us about this.

            With scientific evidence , of course. ;-)

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          • #
            AndyG55

            “the injustice of the climate crisis”

            The real injustice will come when these kiddies find there are no jobs left because there is no reliable electricity.

            Those manufacturing jobs will all be in China, while that country continues to supply the world with plant enriching atmospheric CO2.

            40

            • #
              AndyG55

              Plenty of building jobs in Newcastle at the moment though.

              Cement, Plaster, steel.. all from using coal. :-)

              Just think, no coal fired power, no coal mining, and everything will have to be imported from China and India, and other SE Asia countries that are using coal (already importing steel, often of dubious quality)

              But Australia won’t be able to afford to buy any of this, because we will have nothing to give.. only to take.

              30

          • #

            They did the protest on a weekday because it was so much easier to get all the naive kiddies in the one place, and it’s so much more rebellious and fun skipping school than skipping football.

            School kids rent a crowd.

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  • #
    Old Ranga

    Let’s call them out for what they are – Useful Idiots. Pushing the cause without understanding who’s pulling their strings.

    40

  • #
    pat

    bizarre!

    20 Sept: 9News: AAP: Sacked Qld workers ‘used as pawns’: union
    Sacked Queensland workers were used as pawns in a failed bid to win government approvals for a controversial $900 million coal project, the CFMEU says.
    About 150 workers at the New Acland coal mine on the Darling Downs, near Toowoomba, lost their jobs this week, potentially affecting hundreds more in the wider community.

    The CFMEU says New Hope Group used its workers in a failed three-week campaign to pressure the state government into green-lighting an expansion of the mine, despite an ongoing court battle to block it…
    “They used them as pawns for their media game and now that didn’t pay out, yep, take them off the (books),” CFMEU district vice-president Shane Brunker told AAP on Friday…

    ***”Ideologically we hate coal companies with a passion,” Mr Brunker said.
    “But we have to stay there at the table and talk to them – the 150 workers are the most important thing at the moment.”…READ ON
    https://www.9news.com.au/national/sacked-qld-workers-used-as-pawns-union/766ed7eb-9357-4bd2-9ac3-1daf173e4e74

    Australian Jobs Denied due to South Korean Emissions
    Daily Telegraph – 18 Sept 2019
    The Independent Planning Commission has rejected a proposed NSW mine because coal exported to South Korea “will adversely impact the NSW environment”. … The IPC said that even though the coal was burnt in South Korea, the mine should be rejected because those emissions overseas…mine was responsible for the “Scope 3” greenhouse gas emissions that would come from burning the coal in South Korea…

    18 Sept: AFR: Mining industry lashes out as NSW blocks Bylong coal project
    by Brad Thompson
    The NSW Minerals Council says the state is in danger of becoming an international investment laughing stock after the Independent Planning Commission blocked development of a major coal mine.
    The IPC cited climate change and a related landmark NSW court ruling as factors in rejecting South Korea company KEPCO’s plans for the Bylong coal mine near Mudgee…

    The IPC referenced a NSW Land and Environment Court ruling in February that blocked the proposed Rocky Hill coal mine on the grounds it would hasten climate change…
    NSW Minerals Council chief executive Stephen Galilee said the decision highlighted “everything that is wrong with the NSW planning system”.
    “This refusal comes after more than seven years of assessment, including repeated changes to the assessment processes and requirements during this period, highlighting just how difficult and complicated the current NSW planning system has become,” he said…
    The Climate Council said the ruling was significant and appropriate, coming days ahead of the global climate strike and global climate week in New York…

    Following a failed attempt to introduce net zero emissions guidelines for new projects in WA earlier this year, Environmental Protection Authority chairman Tom Hatton said ignoring offset targets and so-called scope 3, or customer, emissions would create increased legal uncertainty given the judicial climate in Australia…
    https://www.afr.com/companies/mining/mining-industry-lashes-out-as-nsw-blocks-bylong-coal-project-20190918-p52sng

    heard on 2GB today that there are a load of coal projects awaiting approval. can’t recall the figure, tho 15 or so might be close.

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    • #
      Serp

      The NSW Independent Planning Commission is another of those state authorities which has been infiltrated by Gang Green but hey, it’s constituted to “(where possible) ensure gender balance on panels” so that’s alright then…

      We’ve also recently read on these threads about the decisions of the WA EPA and the NSW Land and Environment Court and their thrust towards the deindustrialisation of the nation.

      The proliferation of green penetration of these bodies is a source of great alarm to anybody wishing to see Australia prosper and the standard of living of its residents rise.

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  • #
    pat

    18 Sept: NSW Mining: Bylong decision shows the utter failure of the NSW planning system
    Despite support from the local community, local MPs, local council, local businesses, and the Department of Planning Infrastructure and Environment which assessed that the project was approvable with conditions, the project has been refused by the delegated authority of the IPC, acting on behalf of the NSW Government but with no accountability to either the government itself or the public.

    The role of the IPC demonstrates how the NSW Government has allowed the economic future of regional NSW, and regional communities like Kandos and Rylstone, to be left at the mercy of an unelected and unaccountable body, with no legal obligation to abide by any of the policies of the elected government of the day.

    This is an absurd and dangerous economic approach that risks making NSW an international investment laughing stock, losing investment and jobs due to uncertainty on who sets planning policy in NSW – faceless bureaucrats or elected representatives?

    Last year NSW lost its ‘number one’ economic title to Victoria, yet we have much needed major projects in the regions being refused by a faceless panel, while the NSW Government stands idly by and lets these opportunities go begging…READ ON
    http://www.nswmining.com.au/menu/media/news/2019/september/bylong-decision-shows-the-utter-failure-of-the-nsw

    but we’ll have more of these?

    20 Sept: TheScarlet&Black: College wind turbine loses blade to lightning strike
    By MJ Old
    A College-owned fifty-kilowatt wind turbine at the Conard Environmental Research Area (CERA) sustained a direct lightning strike and is currently inoperable. One of the three blades shattered, and Facilities Management (FM) found the pieces on the ground. The turbine, small by industrial standards, had provided enough power to run a building. The damage occurred on the night of September 8.

    The turbine has been hit by lightning before. “I mean, it’s a tall thing made out of conductive material. It sticks up; it asks for it. So yes, it got hit,” said biology Professor Vince Eckhart, who is also the current Faculty Director of CERA.
    However, previous strikes have only caused electrical problems, not damage to the blades…
    “This is a little more spectacular than most.”…
    http://www.thesandb.com/article/college-wind-turbine-loses-blade-to-lightning-strike.html

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  • #
    Raven

    Sigh . . the UN want to dictate Australia’s “Climate Policy™” so they don’t have to listen to alternative views.

    Australia is among a group of coal-supporting economies singled out as not getting a spot on the list of 63 speakers at the upcoming UN climate change summit.

    Environmental advocates welcomed the ‘unprecedented move’, saying it represented a rebuke of Australia’s climate change policies on the world stage.

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/australia-banned-from-speaking-at-un-climate-change-summit-in-unprecedented-rebuke

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  • #
    Phoenix44

    The logical fallacy here is Begging the Question. He assumes climate science is completely faultless and thus it is pointless to question it.

    But what if it’s not, which is the claim sceptics make?

    I would make two points back to them. First, science is in crisis, with many key funding gst in many areas if science priving to be bon-reproducible. If 50% or more of published papers are wrong in other sciences, why is climate science exempt from that problem? Second, do they apply the same standards to other areas, say economics? There is a vast amount if real world and theoretical evidence that left-wing economic policies are utterly wrong and do considerable harm – Venezuela most recently. Will the Conversation ban those views too?

    00

    • #
      Serp

      Neither economics nor climatism is constituted as a science, that is a scheme having falsifiable hypotheses upon which it is founded; both are actually faith systems.

      00

  • #
    Ian Wilson

    While most people here are wrangling over who is right and who is wrong about climate change, nature is putting a spanner in the works.
    It looks as though a possible El Nino event is starting in the Pacific. It is too early to say that it’s underway but the (east-to-west)
    trade winds have died over more than half of the equatorial Pacific Ocean (as far east as 160 W). It started on the 13th of September
    about a week ago, and it is still going strong. However, there is no guarantee that the event will persist long enough to set off an El Nino event.

    To see what is going on with the winds go to:

    https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/1000hPa/orthographic=-146.50,3.31,416

    Note that there are no easterly trade winds along the equator for the western part of the Pacific.

    The following URL will show you the tongue of hot water (just north of the Equator) that is starting flowing to the east:

    https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/ocean/surface/currents/overlay=sea_surface_temp_anomaly/orthographic=-146.50,3.31,416

    The battle is on to see if the warm water moving east will slip under the cold water in the eastern equatorial Pacific

    For my explanation of what (I believe) is happening, please go to:

    https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2019/09/18/ian-wilson-solving-this-weeks-trade-winds-puzzle/

    and follow the links to my blog site.

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  • #
    robert rosicka

    Medieval warming and the little ice age debunked and proudly reported by your ABC .

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-20/school-strike-for-climate-draws-thousands-to-australian-rallies/11531612

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    • #
      TdeF

      I hold their activist teachers responsible for the drivel the children are fed. It’s becoming a world religion, pushed by teachers who misinform children. After 31 years of terrible warming, absolutely everything is fine and the Polar bears are fine and the Caribou and the islands of the Pacific and Bangladesh and the snow never left. Lies, damn lies and climate lies.

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  • #
    pat

    total hysteria, just ending on Aljazeera, complete with declaration:

    “This story is part of Covering Climate Now, a global collaboration of more than 250 news outlets to strengthen coverage of the climate story”

    VIDEO: 25min23sec: 19 Sept: Aljazeera: Climate Apocalypse: Is it too late?
    American novelist Jonathan Franzen sparks a debate by saying we should “stop pretending” we can prevent climate change.
    American novelist Jonathan Franzen has unleashed a maelstrom of controversy by asserting that in order to prepare for the climate apocalypse we must admit we can’t prevent it. He recently published an essay in The New Yorker making his case, in which he readily admitted he’s no scientist, but maintained society needs to stop pretending that efforts to heal Mother Earth will prevent the inevitable.
    Climate scientists such as Kate Marvel took umbrage with Franzen’s essay. In a rebuttal, she reaffirmed what the science community believes: that given we understand the drivers of climate change we can work to make a difference.
    Today, we ask our panel who is ultimately responsible for preventing climate change and … is it even possible?
    On this episode of The Stream, we speak with:

    Genevieve Guenther @DoctorVive
    Founder, End Climate Silence
    endclimatesilence.org

    ***Arn Menconi @ArnMenconi
    Peace & Climate Change Activist

    Sara Peach @sarapeach
    Author, #AskSara Advice Column
    yaleclimateconnections.org
    http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201909190000-0025919

    ***Arn is a Dem turned Green in 2016.

    Recent episodes:

    Damaging the environment: Crime against humanity?
    Activists are taking the climate change fight to the courts, in hopes of stopping ecocide by rendering it a criminal act.
    September 18, 2019

    Can the ‘Great Green Wall’ fight climate change in Africa?
    Initiative aims to combat spread of Sahara Desert and re-green Africa’s Sahel region.
    September 17, 2019

    Is ‘climate grief’ a path towards healing the world?
    Healthcare professionals face new challenge to tackle anxiety spurred by impact of climate change events and their reporting.
    September 16, 2019

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    pat

    18 Sept: WBEN: Plans to halt creation of wind turbine farm on Lake Erie
    State Senator Jacobs proposes moratorium on wind turbine farm
    by Mike Baggerman
    GRAND ISLAND, N.Y. – Congressman Chris Collins said he’s concerned about the border security impact of a potential wind turbine farm off the shoreline of Lake Erie and introduced federal legislation which would prevent the creation of the turbines by New York State.
    Collins’ push comes in response to a joint-press conference with Governor Andrew Cuomo and former Vice President Al Gore on July 18, where the governor announced the “Green New Formula”, which would create two offshore wind farms downstate. The first wind farm is east of Long Island and will provide 880 megawatts to feed power into the Long Island area. The second project is 14 miles southeast of Manhattan to feed 816 megawatts to New York City.
    “1,700 megawatts is enough to power over 1 million homes,” Cuomo said earlier this month…

    “Lake Erie is one of the more shallow lakes,” Collins said. “Our worry is with very little oversight or none, the governor could approve this project, which, I think, is universally opposed by anyone living on the lakeshore…As we’ve determined now, more importantly, those wind turbines would block the radar that we have here now from being able to determine if a ship is coming across. The radar is maybe 180 feet tall, the wind turbines would be 460 feet tall. The way the line of sight radar works is that it has to identify a unique object coming in. These wind turbines would create a blackout area that would be a very large percentage of what we can see all the way to the Canadian shore.”
    The congressman said there could be as many as 50 wind turbines placed in Lake Erie…

    1 COMMENT: Thomas O’Donnell
    Wind turbines are a joke! They get a 30% tax break from the federal government called the Production Tax Credit, not including state inducements which are no doubt substantial. In addition, they produce their rated power only about a quarter of the time according to the NYS grid operator. As it is, the Steel Winds wind farm usually have less than half their turbines working at any given moment with wind blowing? Give me a break!
    https://wben.radio.com/articles/plans-halt-creation-wind-turbine-farm-lake-erie

    18 Sept: WindPowerMonthly: The rise and fall of Senvion
    Senvion’s demise has been on the cards for some time, but its collapse means the industry has lost a prominent technological pioneer in both the onshore and offshore sectors. Eize de Vries looks back on the company’s impact on wind power development.
    Suzlon sold Senvion to US-based private equity firm Centerbridge Partners in April 2015. In an accompanying statement, Centerbridge said: “Senvion is a company with impressive technology and leading market positions. The global market environment for renewable energies is promising for a wind turbine manufacturer, particularly for one of the most experienced players in the industry with onshore and offshore capacity.”

    Sadly, the reality turned out differently.
    https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/1654013/rise-fall-senvion

    19 Sept: HydrogenFuelNews: Wind turbine waste could become a growing problem in the U.S.
    The U.S. will have more than 700,000 tons of decommissioned blade material in 20 years.
    Moreover, this figure reportedly doesn’t include versions of turbines that are newer, taller and of a higher capacity…
    “The blades are kind of a dud because they have no value,” Van Vleet told NET and Harvest Public Media reporter Christina Stella, reports Science Friday (LINK).

    Aside from being difficult to recycle and sell, transporting decommissioned blades to the landfill is also extremely difficult and expensive. The blades range anywhere from 100 to 300 feet long and need to be cut up onsite prior to being transported on expensive specialized equipment.
    That said, the problem doesn’t stop there. Van Vleet says that the blades can be very troublesome for landfills. The reason is that the blades take up a lot of space and can use up the landfill’s limited capacity, requiring small utility or municipalities to add permits for more landfill space, which leads to more costs…
    http://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/wind-turbine-waste-could-become-a-growing-problem-in-the-u-s/8538309/

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  • #
    Kalm Keith

    It can’t even spell ” butt ” properly.

    So much for our education system.

    KK

    10

  • #
    Sapel Mirrup

    “The thing is how the Climate Industrial Complex behaves, and how they seek to win the argument; and that is to close down debate. It is to de-legitimise dissent, to cow people into silence. This I term the Spiral of Silence, which is this notion that when people don’t hear arguments in the public square, they cease making those arguments themselves. They stop even knowing what they believe, and after a while they don’t even know what to believe. You can suppress debate and the arguments not by having an argument but by making sure you don’t have an argument. The constitutional first amendment is just a formality. The real thing is the essence of being able to speak freely, and that is what is at risk.”

    – From a 2018 interview of Rupert Darwall with some paraphrasing for sake of clarity. He is the author of ‘Green Tyranny: Exposing the Totalitarian Roots of the Climate Industrial Complex.’

    10

  • #
    David Wojick

    Sidney Morning Herald says climate marchers in Oz over 300,000. The protest is now real.

    10

    • #
      AndyG55

      I still can’t find anyone who can tell me what they are actually protesting against !!

      PF came up with a load of journalist written pap about climate emergencies, climate injustice etc, but he obviously had no idea what they were meant to mean except as fantasy memes.

      These unfortunately gullible kiddies seem to be protesting in a bid to make the rest of their lives the complete Venezuelan experience.

      Quite bizarre.

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    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      I’m expecting andy to sauvage you as he did me

      03

      • #
        AndyG55

        Still waiting for you to say what REAL thing they are actually protesting about, PF.

        ( you could cut paste some climate mantra again, hey ;-) )

        Just a nice day off school with their mates. ;-)

        40

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          what is it with you and facts? This is the fourth time, I’ve given you their aims, direct from their website. Can’t you see?

          02

          • #
            AndyG55

            No, PF you have copied their propaganda pap that was fed to them..

            Word for word from the climate-scammers-in-charge.

            And NONE of it is real, you know that.

            Are you saying the kiddies were protesting about an imaginary fantasy?

            Now why would they do that??

            One big huge campaign of indoctrination.

            That is the real reason, isn’t it PF.

            Nice for the brain-washed kiddies to have a day off.. Did you join them?

            20

    • #
      AndyG55

      The real funny thing about all this is that none of these little brain-washed kiddies has actually experienced any real change in the climate in their whole lifetime.

      They have never noticed any temperature rise.

      Never noticed any sea level rise.

      Only minor droughts (not noticed in green inner city suburbs)

      They are blessed with having a truly benign climate.

      Not only that, but they have grown up in a period of stable reliable electricity, with many modern advancements that rely totally on that reliability of supply.

      And now they want destroy it all.

      MADNESS of the brain-washed !!

      40

    • #
      AndyG55

      In Brisbane, 1000s march across Victoria bridge..

      which is made totally of concrete and steel !

      …. and they don’t see the irony !!

      30

  • #
    AndyG55

    OT: Another BIG SCARE !..

    not really..

    just a bit fishy. ! :-)

    20

  • #
    Slithers

    Slightly O/T but,
    At about 6:25 this evening there was a short comment on Sky news about RMIT. They were telling students to Strike and get a pass mark!
    Their Future in their own hands!

    10

  • #
    pat

    ***RIDICULOUS:

    20 Sept: Phys.org: German govt reaches climate plan deal as protests heat up
    by Hui Min Neo
    After marathon overnight talks dragging more than 18 hours, the coalition reached “an agreement with many measures and an annual monitoring mechanism” on meeting climate targets, said a government source…
    As the politicians emerged red-eyed from the session, across Germany, protesters were out in the streets with colourful banners and posters with slogans like “make rainforests great again” or “I want a hot date, not a hot planet”…

    With the economy already projected to slide into recession in the third quarter, balancing the interests of its crucial export industries ***while not alienating young voters with their green demands was proving to be a tough balancing act…
    Mindful of the 800,000 jobs tied to the auto sector, Merkel’s government is also cautious that new environment taxes could set off the type of “yellow-vest” anti-government protests that have plagued neighbouring France…
    But the young warn that delaying action is not an option, calling the threat existential with devastating consequences during their lifetimes.
    “We are heading for a life-destroying crisis and so far nothing has happened,” said Linus Steinmetz of the student movement…
    https://phys.org/news/2019-09-german-govt-climate-protests.html

    19 Sept: Phys.org: Germany planning climate action worth over 100 bn euros
    German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s coalition government plans to commit at least 100 billion euros ($110 billion) on climate protection by 2030, according to a draft policy paper being discussed on Thursday.
    Merkel’s conservatives and the centre-left Social Democrats were expected to haggle late into the night on the details before the landmark policy package was due to be announced Friday…

    The coalition now looks to commit to spending “in the triple digit billions”, or at least 100 billion euros, according to the nearly 140-page draft paper titled “Climate Protection Programme 2030″ seen by AFP…
    Measures listed would tackle emissions in the energy and industrial sectors as well as in housing, transport, agriculture, waste management and the state apparatus itself.
    The government aims to step up subsidies for the purchase of zero-emission electric vehicles and expand the country’s still under-developed electric car charging infrastructure.
    It would also raise tax incentives for making buildings more energy efficient and promote alternative fuels, local public transport and climate-friendly freight transport…
    https://phys.org/news/2019-09-germany-climate-action-worth-bn.html

    19 Sept: Phys.org: Speed bumps on German road to fight climate change
    by Frank Zeller
    However, Germany has lagged badly behind in building a new type of high-voltage transmission line—dubbed the energy “Autobahn”—several of which are to deliver electricity from the wind-swept north to the more industrialised south.
    Most delays have been due to not-in-my-backyard opposition against the hulking new power lines, meaning construction has slowed to a crawl and that they are now often laid below ground at far greater cost.
    Given the fickle nature of weather-based energy, experts warn that smart grids and power networks, and more storage capacity, are essential to flexibly deliver clean energy to where it is needed…
    https://phys.org/news/2019-09-german-road-climate.html

    10

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    pat

    20 Sept: Indian Express: Explained: Why PM Modi is attending a special climate meet on sidelines of UNGA
    PM will attend Monday’s high-profile special summit aimed at identifying concrete and urgent solutions, but India has said it is already doing its best — UN Secy Gen’s new asks should be for developed nations.
    by Amitabh Sinha
    In a discussion paper released earlier this week, the government said the “new asks” from the Secretary-General, “in particular net zero emissions, mean a sweeping change across the entire economy”. It has said this target should be kept only for developed countries.
    “This can be a global aspirational goal and developed countries must be on track to take measures and legislate for net zero emissions by 2050. But it cannot be a goal for developing countries as the technologies have not progressed and aren’t all available yet for developing countries…

    In the discussion paper, India has repeatedly called out the developed world for their failure to provide adequate finance and technology to developing countries. It has pointed out that the finance needs specified by the developing countries in their NDCs in 2015 adds up to $4.4 trillion. India alone requires $206 billion by 2030 to implement only the adaptation programmes in agriculture, forestry, water resources, and infrastructure. The total cost of carrying out all the promised actions in the NDCs would cost $2.5 trillion by 2030…

    Developed countries have promised to mobilise at least $100 billion every year from 2020 for the developing countries. But even on that count, they are way behind the target as of now…
    https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/united-nations-climate-action-summit-global-warming-6011372/

    10

  • #
    Slithers

    Our BOM and real temperature data.
    Last Monday there was widespread snow in central NSW.
    The Hume Highway was closed for a while because of the depth of snow made getting up the local hill very difficult for trucks.
    Now go check the http://www.bom.gov.au for Goulburn for the last seven days.
    Take notice of the overnight lows!
    Sunday -0.2 Monday 5.5 Tuesday -0.3
    That’s unless they changed it again! It has changed twice over the last few days. Sorry to say I don’t have screen print to support that allegation!

    What strange weather/climate event can cause 15cm of snow with an air temperature of 5.5!

    And just what sort of weather/climate system can cause such violent 5 degree up and then down over such a short time scale AND not be seen elsewhere within the immediate locality????

    20

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    pat

    19 Sept: WorldSociaistWebSite: The only solution to climate change is world socialism
    By the International Youth and Students for Social Equality
    Any serious effort to reverse climate change would involve a scientifically planned global restructuring of the world’s energy industry to transition from a reliance on fossil fuels to renewable energy. This in turn would involve a transformation on the same scale of transportation, logistics, agriculture and ultimately society as a whole. Such changes would necessarily cut across national boundaries, corporate profits and national security interests. These institutions are bound up with capitalism: the division of the world into rival nation-states and the subordination of economic life to the accumulation of private profit…
    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/09/19/clim-s19.html

    10

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    pat

    more FakeNewsMSM overkill:

    19 Sept: Economist editorial: A warming world: The climate issue: Climate change touches everything this newspaper reports on. It must be tackled urgently and clear-headedly
    FROM ONE year to the next, you cannot feel the difference. As the decades stack up, though, the story becomes clear. The stripes on our cover represent the world’s average temperature in every year since the mid-19th century. Dark blue years are cooler and red ones warmer than the average in 1971-2000. The cumulative change jumps out. The world is about 1ºC hotter than when this newspaper was young…

    This special issue of The Economist is not all about the carbon-climate crisis. But articles on the crisis and what can be done about it are to be found across all this week’s sections…
    To understand that context, it is important to understand all the things that climate change is not. It is not the end of the world. Humankind is not poised teetering on the edge of extinction. The planet itself is not in peril. Earth is a tough old thing and will survive…

    Some claim that capitalism’s love of growth inevitably pits it against a stable climate. This newspaper believes them wrong. But climate change could nonetheless be the death knell for economic freedom, along with much else. If capitalism is to hold its place, it must up its game.
    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/09/19/the-climate-issue

    21 Sept: Economist Briefing: The past, present and future of climate change
    Climate issue: Replacing the fossil-fuel technology which is reshaping the climate remains a massive task
    It is true that, after a spectacular boom in renewable-energy installations, electricity from the wind and the sun now accounts for 7% of the world’s total generation…
    One step towards halving emissions by 2030 would be to ramp such renewable-electricity generation up to half the total. This would mean a fivefold-to-tenfold increase in capacity…
    https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/09/21/the-past-present-and-future-of-climate-change

    21 Sept: Economist: Firms face physical, regulatory and legal risks from climate change
    Climate issue: Most still do not own up to their vulnerabilities
    Physical effects of global warming—rising sea levels, drier droughts, stormier storms—imperil factories and other assets, as well as transport and energy links that knit supply chains together…
    The final threat looms in the courtroom. It is the hardest of the three to assess. This month PG&E reached an $11bn settlement with insurers seeking compensation from the Californian utility for payouts they made to homeowners and businesses in connection with wildfires. These were sparked by its power lines—and climate change increased their likelihood…
    https://www.economist.com/business/2019/09/21/firms-face-physical-regulatory-and-legal-risks-from-climate-change

    10

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    pat

    19 Sept: ColumbiaJournalismReview: Q&A: Michael Mann on coverage since ‘Climategate’
    By Brendan Fitzgerald
    Michael Mann’s work as a press critic began in earnest a decade ago. Ahead of the 2009 international climate-change summit in Copenhagen, hackers stole email correspondence between Mann and other climate scientists from a computer server at the University of East Anglia. Climate-change deniers used portions of the emails, freed from context, to attack the credibility of Mann, whose “hockey stick” graph charting the rapid rise of the Earth’s temperature since industrialization would become an emblem of the climate fight…

    Though multiple investigations upheld the integrity of Mann’s research, such vindication took years…
    In 2011, Mann filed a defamation claim in a British Columbia court against the Frontier Center for Public Policy (FCPP), a Canadian think-tank, and Tim Ball, a former geography professor, after Ball suggested in an interview that Mann should be imprisoned. In June, the FCPP settled with Mann and apologized for its characterization of his work. Last month, after Ball’s lawyers cited their client’s poor health and lack of standing, the court dismissed the case, after which Mann took to Twitter to counter climate-denial sites that spun the dismissal…

    Q: This year marks a decade since news coverage of what many news outlets called “Climategate.” What gains have journalists made in their coverage of climate science and global warming since then?

    MANN: We’ve seen a pretty dramatic move away from the false balance that we used to see, where every news story about climate change had to have a contrarian, a climate-change denier, representing the other side—as if there’s equal weight on the side of science and science denial.
    At the same time, I think there are other problems that we’re seeing crop up in media coverage of this issue. [Franzen’s piece is] emblematic of a trend toward doomist framing; my worry is it leads people down a path of despair and hopelessness and inaction, which actually leads us to the same place as outright climate-change denialism…

    It’s impossible now to deny that climate change is happening. The fossil-fuel industry has essentially give up on their campaign to deny the reality of climate change. So instead they’re focused on this kinder, gentler form of denialism. This is the new climate war, and we need to recognize that it’s being waged and understand that it’s every bit as dangerous as the old climate war—the old-fashioned, outright denial of the science…READ ALL
    https://www.cjr.org/covering_climate_now/michael-mann-climategate-franzen.php

    10

  • #
    pat

    and the children marched on their behalf:

    19 Sept: UK Independent: Offshore wind ‘could power six million more homes’ after Crown Estate announces major auction of seabed rights
    Four areas of seabed around England and Wales to be opened to bidding from range of energy investors
    by Harry Cockburn; Additional reporting by Reuters
    The royal family is expected to raise millions as the Crown Estate announces its first major auction of offshore windfarm leases in a decade…
    The Crown Estate, which operates the royal family’s property portfolio, owns the exclusive rights to all the seabeds around the British Isles. The estate is overseen by the Treasury, and profits generated also go to the Treasury, though 25 per cent are returned to the royal family in the form of the sovereign grant…

    Andrew Cooper, the Green Party’s energy spokesperson, told The Independent: “Our preference is for publicly or community owned wind farms where energy is generated for the common good rather than private or corporate gain, but we can’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. We have a climate emergency and we need to generate energy from clean sources urgently so we welcome any positive action that addresses the climate crisis.
    “We would also ask the royal estate to invest the share they receive from the wind farm into further actions which reduce carbon emissions preferably to benefit people on lower incomes and those in fuel poverty.”
    https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/wind-power-crown-estate-royal-renewable-energy-offshore-auction-a9112416.html?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

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    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Landowner’s reap huge benefits and get rich, and the public gets less reliable, intermittant and more expensive energy. I wonder how many of those marching ‘schoolskids’ understand this.
      GeoffW

      10

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    This is redundant but I wonder what the answer would be if I asked who gets to decide what is expertise and what is uninformed?

    Oops! They have nothing but the head man’s opinion, do they? How come so few people can recognize that and reject it, confident that they’re doing the right thing?

    20

  • #
    GD

    Misha Ketchell, ex-ABC journalist, editor and ED of The Conversation scrambles to justify why banning half the population from speaking is not censorship

    Misha Ketchell, a weak-kneed, lily-livered lefty with the intelligence of a gnat.

    30

  • #
    TdeF

    An amazing list of climate demands from today.

    “we must also decarbonise in a very specific way – by rejecting “false solutions”. These include nuclear power, geoengineering, carbon capture, “technofixes”, biofuels, “smart agriculture”, as well as anything to do with the market or corporations.’

    “Apparently we need to “facilitate and support non-market approaches to climate action”, back “environmentally sound, socially acceptable, gender responsive and equitable climate technologies” and “respect and enable non-corporate, community-led climate solutions that recognise the traditional knowledge, practices, wisdom and resilience of indigenous peoples and local communities”.

    This includes a focus on “agro-ecology” which insists on “an explicit focus on social and economic dimensions of the food system [and] a strong focus on the rights of women, youth and indigenous peoples”. In other words, subsistence farmers in the Third World should be respected for their deep feminist wisdom, not connected to international markets. If they want to use modern agricultural technology, heaven help them.”

    This is nothing to do with climate. It is a summary of socialst demands for a feminist indigenous community led shut down of modern life.

    Why not declare a Climate Year and everyone goes home or walks somewhere on holiday without any plastic or petrol and lives with indigenous people? And leave your phones at home.

    Their employers and schools bankers and councils and the taxation department will give them the time off surely?
    Let’s call it walkabout.

    50

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      A brilliant response TdeF.

      The subject material is from Planet Loco and if our nation’s leaders don’t react to this we are doomed.

      Thousands of vacant headed zombies marching for “the future” while those manipulating them plan the next step in the destruction of Australia.

      There’s at least some honesty attached to this in that war has finally been declared after forty years of preparation.

      The results are astounding;

      Industry dismantled.
      Iron and steelmaking gone.
      Aluminium smelting, nearly gone.
      Copper smelting?
      No ship building, gone to Korea.
      No automotive industry. Gone.
      No dams, agriculture on the brink.

      Education, totally weirded out and dysfunctional.
      Politics and government; in self preservation mode and showing no interest in trying to actually govern.

      And it will be interpreted as a day of triumph.

      No wonder so many Australians are feeling lost and despondent when the nation we thought we were building was actually being dismantled.

      Is there a statesman in the house to pick up the pieces and start rebuilding?

      KK

      40

  • #
    el gordo

    Misha the science is not settled and as you can see from this thread, its still a robust debate.

    So its my melancholy duty to inform you that global cooling has begun and you missed the scoop.

    30

  • #
    Vishnu

    Andy do you actually know what goes into making that UAH series? Of course you don’t. Talk to a few remote sensing scientists about cal/val.

    and are you seriously quoting a single site with 12 years of sea level data as definitive evidence of something. Try harder or put your Mum on.

    01

  • #

    It’s spelled siege not seige

    00

  • #
    Alan D. McIntire

    Whenever I hear the “Trust your doctor” line, I tell this story about my father. My sister drove him in to the local Veteran’s Administration hospital for a check up. His doctor told him he should eat more fruits and vegetables, less eggs and meat. My father replied,
    “Look, I’m 84 years old! Just how much longer do you expect me to live if I start eating that crap?”, leaving the doctor speechless.
    My father just celebrated his birthday on May 8, 2019. I follow my father’s advice rather than my doctors.

    00

  • #
    Orang Putih

    The Conversation – open to everyone, as long as they chant the mantra.

    00

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