### JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).

### Handbooks

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX

Think it has been debunked? See here.

# It was a Global Climate Picnic Day: Go on — Show us you mean it guys — cut the cord to the coal fired grid

### Anyone can say fossil fuels are evil. But let’s count the protestors living without them?

Every kind of motherhood spirit and mass delusion was at the Global Climate Picnic today. It was all things to all people, a day to absolve guilt about living rich, while simultaneously earning social status miles in the Flying Socialite Program. (Or perhaps that’s the Flying Socialist Program).   The Climate Picnic was green and fluffy, nice and sunny, and a walk in the park with the distant promise of free perpetual motion machines.  What’s not to like about a day off school feeling like a rebel for conforming with the throng?

It was a chance to complain about corporate greed, and do a cathartic exorcism of smoke and black stuff, which everyone knows must be bad. It was a spiritual event, a social event, and faked up as a science event too. The dumb could feel smart, the rich could feel pious, and everyone could feel so important. They were of course superheroes saving the whole goddam planet.

Fighting Climate Change is morally right, just like the battle against slavery — says someone in The Guardian, as if setting people free is like liberating electrons. Lordy! Those exploited subatomic particles imprisoned in solar panels would feed the world if only we let them!

So nice, but poorly educated kids skipped getting a bit more education while their overly educated parents acted out a pagan ritual drilled into them during the degree in landscape architecture that they didn’t need and never used. And the luckiest generation on Earth found reasons to panic and emote about balmy weather.

With rather meaningless lives in a civilization they’ve been taught is a toxic imperial invader, the gullible, the lost and the resentful were easy pickings to be swept up into a fake movement promising salvation, better weather, nicer insects and less jellyfish. The nonsense runs wild, and placards prophesy a dying Earth in a game of theatre designed to spook weak politicians. This was climate propaganda week after all. These people were part of the advertising.

### Let’s see some real climate action

Anyone can wave a banner at a climate picnic.  True believers need to prove they care and show us the way. None of this one-day walk-in-the-park stuff. If solar is so cheap — let’s see those leaders go off the grid. No more coal fired electricity. No more gas back up. No more frequency stability for free. Let them put the wind turbines on their own roofs and run their cars on solar powered battery packs.

Years from now PhD students will pore forth over the historic artefacts of The Great Global Warming Delusion and wonder how so many thousands of people got swept into the witchdoctor cult that stops storms with magic PV panels.

Coincidentally this week snow fell in Australia right down to 560m in one area, and it was also starting to fall already in the Northern Hemisphere, in Sweden, China and California. Not that means anything. Just another #climateemergency. They’re everywhere you know.

These people are calling for the end of coal, but they have no idea what that means.

### Spot the new religion

Apparently a lot of people want to find a messiah to follow:

### … Would you like to feel smug with that?

A lot of people who aren’t very good at science enjoy a chance to feel like they are.

Let’s call this condescension-bias:

A bit confused about the science maybe?
..
Climate action starts in daycare:
Don’t cut the trees indeed. Send this child on a tour of Drax.

Where are the grownups?

In 1212 to the East to invade,
Though twenty thousand strong,
It went horribly wrong,
And their doom was the price that they paid.

–Ruairi

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It was a Global Climate Picnic Day: Go on -- Show us you mean it guys -- cut the cord to the coal fired grid, 8.9 out of 10 based on 109 ratings

### 361 comments to It was a Global Climate Picnic Day: Go on — Show us you mean it guys — cut the cord to the coal fired grid

• #
Lionell Griffith

No…no. Being consistent with their own words is not necessary. THAT is for everyone else to be. They, on the other hand, have good intentions so consistency is not necessary. They can make any error and cause catastrophic consequences and the consequences are not their fault. They are to be forgiven before they err BECAUSE they have good intentions. For everyone else who once made a mistake, however small, forgiveness is impossible and their character and reputation must be destroyed at all costs so they can never do anything again forever.

Question: are the so called good intentions really good down to the bottom of their soul where it really counts? I think not. Their intentions are malevolent from the get go.

• #
theRealUniverse

“Spot the new religion” This is a global scientific ‘color revolution’ sponsored by the usual suspects. It is against people, not for the planet. It never was.

• #
theRealUniverse

I put this further down..take over the worlds youth and you control the future!

• #
sophocles

… but the weather was/is good!
So it was all right, then …
There was no sign of the Klimate Krisis …
Not at all …
None …
Nyet …
The sun was shining …
there were no gales …
there were no huge ice balls …
all the grown ups felt important …
all the kiddees felt grown up …
… the planet was — successfully — saved … for another couple of days …
Oh how wonderful, jolly good show and all that sort of stuff.
Krisis? What krisis?

Yeah, it’s gotta be a crisis: That nasty CO2 has gone from three molecules per ten thousand to four molecules per ten thousand.
Watch out! It’s gonna have a HUGE effect …

When it goes cold, the betrayal will be palpable …

… can’t wait. 2027, or thereabouts, say some “scientists” … whatever they are.

Which reminds me … I haven’t dropped in to Hot Whopper to see what Silly Sou’s Sy-ense is saying, or what Silly Sou is calling Sy-ense, for five years now. I need a dose of Klimate of Un-Reality … and a good laugh …

• #
Maryanne

There’s an old saying: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

• #
Mal

I think a more appropriate definition of the climate change movement is a CULT!
It is purely a belief based movement based on junk science, manipulated by its political leaders and focussing on the gullible
They have mainly focussed on the young who are the most susceptible.
However, the movements leaders have no good intentions, it’s purely about political power and destruction of western civilisation as we know it.

• #
PeterS

No doubt it’s a cult and the founder and leader is Al Gore.

• #
ivan

I think you will find the founder of the cult is the UN and its attempt at world government with the Gorical being the smiling face to lead people astray.

• #
Latus Dextro

It goes all the way back to Maurice Strong and his formation of the UNEP c.1972

• #

This pervasive medja-never-let-up- campaign, as per Alinsky’s Rules for Radical that restricts views, conversations contra to leftist progressivist dogma, orchestrated by UN Globalist elites, pushed by k-12 social engineering ‘educationaists’ promoting youth student and Anti-fa street protests, it’s disturbingly emblematic of 1930′s Fa* ist Germany censoring free speech, book-burning, shutting down western parliamentary democracy based on rule of law for all. Whipping up guilt and fear, always the mechanism of the gurus who want to control you.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/brief-history-book-burning-printing-press-internet-archives-180964697/

• #
Dennis

Don’t forget George Soros, and his early youth days as a Hitler follower.

That poster above reminded me of the Nazi Youth Group children

• #
Zane

Soros made his money by running a hedge fund, not selling wind turbines or harvesting government subsidies. Focus on the real perps behind the scam.

• #
Dennis

What angers me most is that Australian politicians are hosting the globalism socialism hoax, instead of standing up and ordering taxpayer funded organisations: BoM, CSIRO, universities, public schools to stop the lies and deception.

• #
PeterS

Yes that’s how I see it. Our political leaders on both sides are either deliberately or unknowingly pushing this nation ever closer to the edge. Sad really that most people are not awake yet to see that’s the case before it’s too late.

• #
Dennis

When a real leader said “I will not stand for socialism masquerading as environmentalism” he was replaced.

He also advocated an independent audit at the BoM and a majority of his cabinet voted against it.

• #
Latus Dextro

I’ve been watching PM Scott Morrison do the political fandango in DC at the love-in with POTUS DJT.
It’s fascinating watching him dance, twist and segue with the POTUS, pinched as he is between a strategic alliance with China, an agreement with an EU in terminal degenerative decline, the TPP (minus the US), not omitting to mention of the climatism cult. A brief compliment by POTUS regarding Australia’s clean coal burning technology, and plenty of smiles and hubris.
Almost as nauseating as the Comrade in Wellington but not quite.
Down-under urgently needs leadership, before it goes, well, desperate and downunder.

• #
PeterS

Well put. I’m starting to reject the notion people like Trump and Morrison are stupid. There’s something odd and I now smell a rat. Perhaps they are thinking they be better off letting things continue to rot and when things become really bad and people wake up then they step in and do what they should already be doing – arrest leaders of the CAGW scam for treason and/or terrorism. If that’s their plan it’s a very dangerous game as the timing has to be almost perfect.

• #
truth

Australia had the best leader in the world but he was on to the hoax and its Socialist aims so he had to be removed via COUP to make way for the Paris candidate.

Our present leader was one of those who did the dirty deed in abject betrayal of Australia…of the Australian people whose landslide vote they vetoed…and of democracy itself.
So we certainly do need a new leader.

Morrison’s all PR and patter-a flim flam man…never addresses the issue that underpins everything Australia does ….he’s letting it all rip in the hope that we won’t see the danger till it’s a fait accompli at which point he’ll say it’s too late …and sell us out to the Global Socialists.

By that time Morrison will have had his day in the sun…and will enjoy the life of an ex-PM….somewhere.

He’s faithfully implementing the Labor/Turnbull/Photios ‘profound transition’ Australians voted in a landslide against….almost to the letter…bragging about the helter skelter RE build…talks vaguely about ‘balancing’ the fluctuating rubbish but show zero sign that he knows how to do it without coal.

Morrison shows no sign that he acknowledges the enormity of the problems in providing system strength..frequency and voltage control…system restart…all the very expensive services the demon coal provides and always has…inherently in the course of its operation.

There’s zero admission from government or journalists that turbines and solar panels really do pollute the atmosphere with GHGases SF6-23500x the potency of CO2 and resident 1000 years in the atmosphere and NF3-17200x the potency of CO2 and resident > 100years and yet our government helps the world to shut down Australia…kill our kids’ futures…render Australia insecure and poor… under the pretext of saving the planet from CO2!

There truly is something treasonous in all this.

Can a PM really be so dangerously uninformed…especially when AEMO reports describe the extreme difficulties facing the country with every further penetration of RE,,,the balancing act in attempting to keep the system secure and stable and the lights on …without synchronous generation?

Morrison must know CO2 is only targeted because it’s the political molecule …the must-have bete noir for those who would rule the world under Global Socialism
No other …no matter how potent…has the power to shut down Capitalism that targeting little old CO2 does.

Scott Morrison’s the advertising man with all the patter …lies and flim flam…but he’s no good to Australia as a leader IMO….no judgment…no courage… no honesty….not worthy.

We need the leader he’s destroyed ..Tony Abbott…. who had the judgment… prescience …and the guts to stand up for Australia against the Socialists of the UN and Europe.

Tony Abbott could be relied upon to always act in Australia’s best interests….no matter what.

• #
Kalm Keith

LD and Truth,

So much promise wiped away by 50 years of unprincipled leadership.

KK

• #
Dennisa

Soros funds a lot of these groups via his Open Society Foundation. He was on a UN Climate Finance Panel after Copenhagen with people like Lord Stern, Christine Lagarde, Koch-Weiser of Deutsche Bank. He is currently bankrolling anti-Brexit groups in the UK.

Back in 2011 there was a group called the Energy Action Coalition (EAC), which described itself as “a coalition of 50 youth-led environmental and social justice groups working together to build the youth clean energy and climate movement.” They became Power Shift” in 2016, https://powershift.org/members

EAC was a prominent member of Al Gore’s Alliance for Climate Protection and one of their chief projects was the https://powershift.org/members, funded by, amongst others, George Soros’ Open Society Institute. Gore’s ACP is now absorbed into his Climate Reality Project: https://www.climaterealityproject.org/

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/aug/19/climate-philanthropist-george-soros-invests-millions-in-coal

“In 2009, after being convinced by Al Gore of the urgency of the climate challenge, he pledged to spend $1bn of his own money on renewable energy and funded the Climate Policy Initiative (CPI) thinktank. Soros has also been a significant donor to both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama’s election campaigns, donating at least$1m to each through the Priorities USA Action superpac. Both have positioned themselves as supporters of strong climate action.”

• #
Ozwitch

Greta’s handler is a paid Soros activist called Luisa Marie Neubauer who works for the One Foundation which is a Soros organisation

• #

Soros, he’s in it alright. In his Manifesto, with misnomered title, ‘Open Society, Reforming Global Capitalism,’ he tells us that he’s committed to the destruction of Western Liberal Democracy. Soros funded programs are directed to the Gramsci long march through the institutions, capturing the educational system, his funded Central European University is a centre for training social justice warriors and the ‘Occupy Movement.’Soros funds activist the media and judiciary, and organizations corrupting democracy by constraining free speech and critical debate. Soros’ funded activism invokes attacks on a democratic pluralist media, and corruption of the constitutional electoral process and legal system of non-arbitrary rule of law for all. His Open Society Foundation and underground network seek to bring down the United States and other western democracies by promoting illegal mass immigration, mostly hostile to democratic values. Other programs include environmental activism demonizing atmospheric CO2 and promoting costly intermittent energy sources to affect productivity. Further to weakening society, activists seek to legitimize illicit toxic drugs and provoke hatred of police action that protects the populace against violent drug offenders or political acts of hostility by migrants. Herewith links to organizations directly and indirectly funded by Soros Open Society Foundation and link to OSF top 150 grantees of 2011.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1237

http://sorosfiles.com/soros/2011/10/open-society-institute-top-150-grantees.html#axzz56y1hZ5Z5

A few examples of Soros’ subsidy of leftist activism,

Opposition to Free Speech.

Soros’ funds action to shut down alternative view free speech via orchestrated protest movements that adopt violent tactics. These anti-free-speech assaults include the 2017 May Day Riots across the US, the California University, Berkeley, the violent protests \in February to prevent Milo Yiannopoulos’ speaking at the University, and include the Anti-Trump Inauguration protest in Washington. in January 2017.

A left-wing organization called Rise-Up Org. that claimed responsibility for the May Day violence that erupted across the US on May 1st, 2017, is a left-wing organization financed by Alliance for Global Justice, one of Soros’ top 150, seven figure grantees. It is also funded, indirectly by Tides Foundation, number 3 on OSF grantee list. Tidegave AfGJ $50, 000, according to the AfGJ 990 tax form. • # When I wrote this post https://beththeserf.wordpress.com/2018/02/13/50th-edition-serf-under_ground-journal/ ALL the links worked. Strange how they are now missing in action. I have hard copies filed, at least no one’s come to take them away. • # Sceptical Sam Not yet. You need to await the 5:00 am knock on the door. (it won’t be polite). • # Kalm Keith Thanks. An eye opening few comments. Political donations are apparently easily pushed through if they are big enough. Spooky. KK • # Graeme#4 I think go back earlier to Maurice Strong. • # Dennis Now deceased, claimed to have been one of the creators of the hoax ignoring natural climate change. Canadian billionaire who was wanted by Police in Canada for pumping water from an aquifer below land in Canada that he had purchased, with no permit to access that water commercially. He managed to escape to China and obtain asylum there. His cousin was a close friend of Chairman Mao. • # Latus Dextro In 1989 Maurice Strong was appointed Secretary General of the Earth Summit and in 1992, addressing Earth Summit II in Rio, he told the thousands of climate change delegates: It is clear that current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class— involving high meat intake, consumption of large amounts frozen and convenience foods, use of fossil fuels, appliances, home and work place air-conditioning, and suburbanhousing — are not sustainable. He was done like a dogs dinner by the UN for the oil for food program, when they discovered he had been in receipt of a bribe US$1M. He then scuttled off to his friends, the communist thugs in China.

• #
Sceptical Sam

He’s got a lot of comrades all ready to scuttle off to Communist China when this thing goes bad for them.

Which it will.

• #
Kalm Keith

No sign of it yet.

• #
TdeF

So what does these protesters want? It’s not at all about the weather. That’s just the headline.

An amazing list of climate demands from today.

“we must also decarbonise in a very specific way – by rejecting “false solutions”. These include nuclear power, geoengineering, carbon capture, “technofixes”, biofuels, “smart agriculture”, as well as anything to do with the market or corporations.’

“Apparently we need to “facilitate and support non-market approaches to climate action”, back “environmentally sound, socially acceptable, gender responsive and equitable climate technologies” and “respect and enable non-corporate, community-led climate solutions that recognise the traditional knowledge, practices, wisdom and resilience of indigenous peoples and local communities”.

This includes a focus on “agro-ecology” which insists on “an explicit focus on social and economic dimensions of the food system [and] a strong focus on the rights of women, youth and indigenous peoples”. In other words, subsistence farmers in the Third World should be respected for their deep feminist wisdom, not connected to international markets. If they want to use modern agricultural technology, heaven help them.”

This is nothing to do with climate. It is a summary of socialst demands for a feminist indigenous community led shut down of modern life.

Why not declare a Climate Year and everyone goes home or walks somewhere on holiday without any plastic or petrol and lives with indigenous people? And leave your phones at home.

Their employers and schools bankers and councils and the taxation department will give them the time off surely?

• #
nb

The Jolly Heretic (geneticist on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMRs0Ml8RF0cWVAOeQeBxTw) has the concept of the spiteful mutant. The spiteful mutant promotes destructive ideas that reduce successful reproductive outcomes.

• #
Tdef

Sorry. Meant to be green. You cannot tick properly on a mobile unless you are tinkerbell.

• #
sophocles

… I’m sure that if you asked Tinkerbell nicely, she would detail one of her sisters to help you with those ticks

• #
OriginalSteve

Decarbonization ( aka deindustrialization ) is the aim of the occult Elites New Age religion to protect thier mythical “gaia” planet goddess. Thier other aim, which is in thier own writings, is massive (90%) depopulation of the planet.

Those who support the climate change agenda unknowingly are calling for thier own demise.

That makes them fools or suicidal. Which one is it?

• #
Yonniestone

I’ve said for a long time carbon reduction has a more sinister meaning to it, the desired global population goal of A21/2030 is from 100 to 500 million people, the current number is 7.7 billion, now consider the threatening undertone of the climate movement and figure how this goal will be achieved.

• #
Sceptical Sam

Yes.

But it’ll never happen.

They’re living in a fantasy world where reality doesn’t fight back.

• #
sophocles

… which is why they’re going to try it.

• #
theRealUniverse

Assuming they get their total fantasy of a totally (non in reality)renewable energy supply. That means NO oil, NO gas, NO coal,NO nuclear.
Then itll be NO alright:
No mobile phones,NO decent transport, NO ships, NO planes, NO reliable power, NO clean water…NO food (because therell be NO CO2 left!)

• #
truth

The more links you follow the more you see that climate’s just the convenient lever….this mob that’s been unleashed would never be hosed down…even by global cooling.

They’re after a Venezuelan-type Communist state and like all on the LEFT they think their particular iteration will be the first to work.

https://www.peoplesdemands.org/

Military conflict seems not unthinkable in all of this…China/Russia and assorted uber-rich Socialists like Soros…Rockefeller Brothers…Theresa Kerry and her foundation..Sandler Foundation all fuelling the fire of people who actually voted in to power heinous despots like Chavez…..Mugabe.. Duterte…yet blame their countries’ woes on climate change and coal….and on the other hand the democracies….that would have a monumental struggle to preserve sanity,,,western civilization …and the entire progress in every field…of the 20th and 21st centuries.

Should our leaders be so suicidal …as they seem to be now…as to obey The People’s Demands on coal and gas…we’d be too dirt poor to obey their other demands …those of Paris….demands that we send money …billions per year…and all IP of all our technology advances …..to the like of the Chinese Communist dictatorship and the Duterte horror show…to compensate them for their difficulties arising from their slaughter of millions of their people and enslavement or subjugation of the rest…so that’s one good thing.

Meanwhile…there’d be no 1st world health systems..no development of new lifesaving drugs…no research…no PBS…NDIS…Medicare …Pensions…welfare….no travel…no military security…no border security and therefore no nation…no ownership of anything.

• #
TdeF

A summary of obviously failed end of world ending climate predictions by experts in the last 50 years

Enjoy.

• #
glen Michel

Well ,Alan Kohler is suggesting a royal commission into climate change would be in order after the banking one. Alan might be good at graphs and all that but a lot of his utterances seem naive.

• #
Zane

Kohler has drunk deeply of the green koolaid. He seems to know nothing about basic energy economics. Now they want to use hydrogen instead of coking coal to make steel. Really? And how much energy does it take to manufacture hydrogen? And who will pay the billions to retool the steel furnaces to use it? Talk is cheap, Mr Kohler.

• #
sophocles

Hydrogen? Near a steel furnace?
What sort of insanity is that?

Ka-Boom!

• #
TdeF

Which shows Alan Kohler has no idea of chemistry. Of course he believes Green rubbish.

Coking coal is NOT used to provide power as much as to provide pure Carbon. All metals exist as oxides, except gold. Say Fe2O3 or AL2O3. To get fresh metals from tin, lead, iron, aluminum oxides or ores you need something to grab the oxygen. That universally is Carbon, pure carbon and the purest comes from coking coal.

The change from carbon from wood or charcoal to coal, coke is what saved the forests of europe introduced the age of machines, not just swords and chains and cast iron. The industrial revolution. The process is called smelting. You CANNOT make metals without making CO2. You cannot make them with hydrogen. Without coal, you do not have forests. Or you do not have metals.

Even GP Dr. Natale has no idea, like Dr. Brown before him. Richard says it is ok to use coal to make steel as long as you do not use it for power and presumably generate CO2. He needs to go back to school. Even for aluminum which is an electrolytic process, carbon rods take out the oxygen and release CO2. Concrete also is the process of removing a CO2 from heating Limestone, Calcium Carbonate, CaCO3 to form quicklime, CaO which is the active ingredient in concrete.

Then Greens have no idea at all of chemistry, or that they are carbon creatures, breathing in CO2 at 0.04% and breathing it out at up to 24%, like every other creature. To make CO2 out as pollution is just insane. Greens hate people and grass and carbon dioxide and love green chlorophyll, which is simply another hated long chain hydrocarbon from which oil is made.

• #
AndyG55

Also the FACT that carbon is an integral part of steel itself.

• #
Sceptical Sam

Kohler is a fool. He worked for the ABC. Still does it seems.

Once a fool, always a fool.

The lefties love him.

• #
sophocles

Coal and Coke are the Reducing Agents which strip the oxygen from the metal oxide, and bind it tightly into a non-flammable gas. The temperatures iron (and steel) have to be refined at completely preclude any attempt at low temperature reduction from charcoal.

Tin works and copper works at low temperatures. (Cu0 -> Cu) which is why the Middle East’s forests were burnt over 3000 years ago. That’s why Mesopotamia’s trees disappeared.

Copper is mostly found as sulphides these days but way back then in the height of the Bronze Age, it could be found as almost pure metal, like Gold, quite regularly. Even so the sulphides have to be `roasted’ as part of their purification, by burning the sulphur out.

But iron? Steel? Think, carefully, about Blast Furnaces and what it means ….

And the Greens want to use hydrogen? I say: let them. Line them all up outside a blast furnace as it switches from Coke to hydrogen. Don’t worry about any ambulances!

• #
TdeF

He could always ask a scientist, a chemist, any chemist. He prefers to talk economics, like so many who find science a mystery, but he is prepared to think judges in a Royal Commission would sort out science. Why not just ask our senior scientists, except the ones in the CSIRO and BOM who would lose their jobs, like the brave Professor Peter Ridd.

The vindictiveness of the climate pushers at JCU and the cooperation of the money hungry executives at JCU has been an utter disgrace to universities generally. Damn the truth, we want the cash. And we will spend millions of public money on lawyers to protect our incomes.

• #
TdeF

And the original newspaper articles for 1-28. Fascinating stuff.

• #
Dave in the States

I will have to go watch the parade for local homecoming football game and see if there are any climate emergency floats. If there are, I am 97% certain it will be pulled by a diesel powered pickup truck!

Meanwhile the Gore effect is in full force with uncomfortably cool and rainy weather with snow down to 7000 feet today.

• #
TdeF

And to support the Global Warming story, Canada has decided to erase all historical data from 1849 to 1950 and rely on computer models. Clearly they did not know how to measure the temperature prior to 1950, but then they didn’t have computers and probably just used thermometers.

• #
nb

A parody of science, from the article:
“The scrapping of all observed weather data from 1850 to 1949 was necessary, a spokesman for Environment Canada told Blacklock’s Reporter, after researchers concluded that historically, there weren’t enough weather stations to create a reliable data set for that 100-year period.”

• #
Ian Hill

That didn’t stop the BOM from creating synthetic temperatures for vast areas of Australia from 1910 and then using them to revise the real temperature observations downwards in the name of homogenisation. Thus we had minima higher than maxima and national record high temperatures on the southwest coast. And henceforth synthetic models terrorising someone else’s kids.

• #
Another Ian

TdeF

Will BOM rise to that new challenge on data dumping?

Will it eclipse it?

• #
TdeF

It’s certainly an amazing precedent. Ditch the data. Believe the computers. That is the diametric opposite of physical science.

• #
Peter C

It is certainly a bizarre story. I am not sure whether to believe it or not.

The scrapping of all observed weather data from 1850 to 1949 was necessary, a spokesman for Environment Canada told Blacklock’s Reporter, after researchers concluded that historically, there weren’t enough weather stations to create a reliable data set for that 100-year period.

“The historical data is not observed historical data,” the spokesman said. “It is modelled historical data … 24 models from historical simulations spanning 1950 to 2005 were used.”

Even the spoke,an’ swords as reported do not make sense.

• #
Peter C

Bother.
Spokesman’s words

• #
Tdef

Yes. You are a skeptic. All scientists are. It is an adult view. Believing everything you are told is a child’s tesponse. That is the problem now the creators of global warming are aimimg squarely at children using young girls as oracles.

• #
Senex

Fortunately I have multiple copies of the complete set of OBSERVED climate data as released by Environment Canada in 2008. It includes observations from over 5,000 stations, though it is true that most don’t extend back from the present to the 1800s, and some only cover a handful of years. Interestingly, there are long-term records for several stations in the western Arctic and Yukon but not for the eastern Arctic.

• #
Peter C

Thanks Senex,

Thank God for that.

• #

Senex, thankyou. When we want that Canadian data we know where to come.
Is that temp and rainfall?

Any other Canadian meteorological data? The usual barometric?

• #
Latus Dextro

If they relied on the single model that came closest to the empirical data and presumably is capable of reasonably accurately hindcasting, then they would rely in the Russian model. They won’t and they don’t. Instead they rely on parametised models based on a finite set of parameters, the assumption being that all parameters are known, which of course they are in scientivism and ideology.

• #
Betapug

Some previous attempts by student “thought leaders” to incite direct action against “existential threats” have turned out poorly.
“The scripted rituals of this night called for high Nazi officials, professors, rectors, and student leaders to address the participants and spectators. At the meeting places, students threw the pillaged, banned books into the bonfires with a great joyous ceremony that included live music, singing, “fire oaths,” and incantations.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings

• #
Robber

If only they had thought some more – then they could have burned banned books and destroyed the records of the medieval warm period.
But they probably don’t read anything that’s not on their phone.
Earth Hour was a flop, we need to encourage the activists to promote Earth Day, or even Earth Week, when they all use no fossil-based energy or materials and go into hibernation.

• #
Kalm Keith

I do support the hibernation idea.

• #
ivan

The student ‘thought leaders’ should have taken the short test setup by the GWPF https://www.thegwpf.com/the-big-climate-change-quiz/ and all those that failed should have been sent back to school to learn some science if they still teach real science in schools now.

• #
Sceptical Sam

Link is OK but the Climate Quiz is no longer available, it seems.

• #
Graeme#4

A couple of nights ago I watched a documentary on how Goebels managed to convince the local folks, starting from around 1933. Very instructive and a good lesson on how easy it is to get everybody onside, even if what you are proposing is plain crazy.

• #
Kalm Keith

If our politicians fail to stand up and “out” this stupidity for what it is, we are close to collapse.

http://joannenova.com.au/2019/09/under-seige-the-conversation-pulls-the-weak-trust-your-doctor-or-climate-god-excuse/#comment-2192361

Totally weird that such a promising start post WW11 has degenerated this.

KK

• #
Kalm Keith

As Lionell says, their intentions are Malevolent.

And Manipulative in the extreme.

KK

• #
Latus Dextro

Exactly. The seeds of this chaos and confusion were sowed in the fertile political soil and well funded abyss of the UN, which is now destructively and ideologically engaged in the implementation of its ‘transformational‘ and ‘new urban agenda’s by 2030, set on this course by the corporatist globalist socialist criminal Maurice Strong initiator of the Stockholm Conference of 1972 and creator of UN Environmental Program (UNEP).

With an almost infinite variety of permutations around bureaucratic appendages, organs, councils and a unique, self-betraying language all of its own (see TdeF #3 exemplar), make no mistake, the UN bureaucracy has since the 1970′s inveigled its way into ALL aspects of human activity from national to municipal, from the spiritual to environmental, from health to investment (divestment), from education to indoctrination. A perusal of its depth and breadth including its favoured NGO’s upon which it bestows the moniker ‘civil society’ (what are you if you don’t belong?) should give you a clue. It is the global administration in waiting, a mass of unelected, unelectable bureaucrats, ideologues and useful idiots poised to impose the excruciating mediocrity, homogeneity, and totalitarianism of their ideological view of the destiny of the World. Like a 1000 year Reich, it may manage a few squalid years of degenerative deterioration so that in the end the World resembles a failed Soviet 5 year plan with its environmental, economic and individual lives, a collective wreckage strewn about in abject unproductive, wasteful chaos.

Globalism is a Green scourge that is focused on de-population, de-industrialisation, destitution and despair. It is become rank evil. The only reasonable answer may now lie in defunding the UN and returning it to its core business. But I fear, like the League of Nations before it, it may take a war, not that we aren’t immersed in one at this moment.

Jorge Bergoglio, the arch globalist favouring one-world-religion and the rainbow cult, that Argentinian socialist who opened the 70th UN General Assembly that launched the ‘transformational agenda in September 2015, ‘recently urged the invited representatives‘ of the main religions, international organizations and various humanitarian institutions, as well as key figures from the world of politics, economics and academia, and prominent athletes, scientists and sociologists to sign a “Global Pact on Education” so as to “hand on to younger generations a united and fraternal common home. … A global educational pact is needed to educate us in universal solidarity and a new humanism.” God hep us; from the “pope” no less.

The current global ‘crisis’ is evidently very carefully orchestrated and engineered. The cohesion demonstrated is as impressive as the uncertainty and chaos it seeks to create in peoples minds. It will require an extraordinary turn of events to disassemble.

In the meantime, I proudly stand like most here, as ‘heretic’.

• #
W B

To Climate Crusaders, Are you a Hypocrite?

Do you drive a car using fossil fuels
Do you use products that came to Australia using cargo ships, Powered by fossil fuels
Do you use manufactured steel-copper-alloys-phones-computers & AC products, Maid with fossil fuels
Do you use the bitumen road, Maid with fossil fuels

Climate Crusaders, If yes to any of the above, Then you are a Hypocrite

• #
Annie

‘Maid with fossil fuels’. That would be St Greta of the high tech boat then?

• #
Greg in NZ

And going by the ‘holy’ pictures & murals of the anointed/appointed Viking goddess/oracle child, she still isn’t happy!

• #
sophocles

Greg in NZ said @ 10.1.1

She still isn’t happy!

What? Is Greta getting Grumpy?

Maybe she’s just found out about the cooling and Autumn arriving earlier in Greta’s homeland complete with the earliest snows in 20 years!
That would make any prophetess (gawd: it was really hard not to spell that as profitess ) feel glum. It’s not a good look when predictions go wrong!

(See latest at NoTricksZone, Kirye reporting with clean Japaneses Data!)

• #
W B

“Climate Change is Real”

BUT

Hot air, hype and burning money

We’ve wasted 30 years tackling climate change. Enough is enough.

Bjorn Lomborg

• #
Bushkid

Unfortunately, Lomberg is still a warmist. He’s just not quite as crazy as the others.

• #
nb

AGW is a unique and revealing expose of human delusion. The belief system has revealed the percentage of the population that can be so thoroughly duped.
Also, among the people I know who are AGWers, it is a remarkable experience to speak with them knowing of their passionate delusion. Kind of NPC, but with an Alice in Wonderland quality about it. Previously, my experience of this quality was rare, when in discussion with a religious cultist of some kind. Now it is quite common. It is strange to find the capacity for passionate and gratuitous delusion so conspicuous.
It amuses me to imagine the contempt with which the string-pullers of the phantasy must view their own constituency. They want to rule over a bunch of nuff-nuffs. Weird.

• #
Latus Dextro

nb, It is become a devout faith in a largely faithless secular society that has now turned post-modern and bathes in neo-Marxist identitarianism and subjectivism. However, this furnishes the need to restore the securities of economy, border and identity, hence the growth in national populism. Meanwhile, the nutterati are expressing their last spasms and well on the way to auto-digestion (Trudeau being a good example).

Humanity utilises its spiritual capacity, in this instance, the Green credo, to transcend present moment misery with deified hope, belief, prayer in a better future. Thus, furnish the problem, feed and stoke it into uncertainty, misery, hellfire and end times, then present the solution.
Oldest trick in book.
And didn’t we pick it easily when Al Gourdo first spouted his inconvenient nonsense, and Mann et al. peddled their schtick.

• #
TJ

Latus Dextro

There are a lot of warmist, like myself, that agree with you. But moderate voices on this side of the argument are being marginalized to a point where a good portion of us cannot support most public policy climate preservation proposals that are suggested these days. Here in the US, there are many left-of-center warmists that are coming to the realization that they may have to vote for the incumbent for president.

The bad news, from my perspective, is that the climate preservation movement is becoming so radical and fractured that any chance of meaningful change is creeping toward zero.

The good news, I suspect from your perspective, is that the climate preservation movement is becoming so radical and fractured that any chance of meaningful change is creeping toward zero.

Frustrating and disheartening.

Here is a thoughtful, but sometimes meandering, commentary along these lines from Tim Pool.

• #
Latus Dextro

TJ, thank you for your comment. BTW, I very much doubt “intersectionality” will become the future (Tim Ball). Judeo Christianity recognised the sanctity of the individual more than a millennium ago. We are in no need of a neo-Marxist rainbow infused polemic, something you appear to agree with, given the current identitarian radicalism observed from the Left.

Merely in a sprit of response rather than any deliberate proselytising endeavour I offer a succinct revealing analysis of the US National Climate Assessment climate change indicators or current key metrics of environmental perturbation (and catastrophism). More importantly, you may find that analysis very reassuring on multiple levels. It also serves to highlight a certain methodology employed by the purveyors of the scientivism. Please don’t be put off by the title.

Further, meaningful change is occurring. Clean water, clean air and lower CO2 levels (should you consider that a problem) in the greatest freest most prosperous nation on Earth. Prosperity and growth, jobs and freedom are all indexed to enhanced environmental care. Socialism and the Left never were. Off hand, check out East Germany, China or Venezuela. Ridding the US EPA of the ridiculous CO2 endangerment finding would be another great step. You’ll doubtless know that the Earth has greened by some 15% in the last two decades, in part considered a result of the extra molecule or two in 10,000 of CO2. Wonderful!

Further reassurance and rational may be found here. It’s a nice absolutely current brief (26 mins) analysis of why the hoi polloi turned to DJT and to Brexit.

Console yourself. Voting across the aisle may not be such a bad thing. After all, 7.3 million new jobs, a half million new manufacturing jobs, more jobs for more minority communities and women in history than you can shake a stick at, a better standard of living for millions, and better environmental care.

Were those in Oceania and the degenerative stasis addled socialist EU just to get a whiff of your prosperity, how fortunate are we.

Regrettably, we’re still trapped and locked down by a neo-Marxist addled globalist political minority elite and their useful bureaucratic idiots.

• #
sophocles

Latus Dextro said

a result of the extra molecule or two in 10,000 of CO2.

Ooh! A nit to pick! Relax everyone, I’m onto it!

No. forget about the or two. It’s exactly the extra molecule in 10,000 of CO2.

300 ppm gives 3 molecules per 10,000 of air
400 ppm gives 4 molecules per 10,000 of air
20,000 years ago it was barely 2 molecules per 10,000 of air. That was a really dangerous concentration but nobody then realized it.

That’s what is behind all the Klimate Krises being declared around the world: that fourth molecule.
All the innumerates think that 1 extra molecule per 10,000 is DDD (Death Doom and Destruction).

It’s amazing: every time mankind finds something in the environment which has changed it’s immediately declared to be mankind’s fault and global destruction is immanent. Even when it isn’t … Planet Earth has coped with those swings and roundabouts with a slickness which indicates supreme familiarity.

• #
Kalm Keith

A number of others comments suggest that this night be referred to as “the day of delusion”.

The subject material is from Planet Loco and if our nation’s leaders don’t react to this we are doomed.

Thousands of vacant headed zombies marching for “the future” while those manipulating them plan the next step in the destruction of Australia.

There’s at least some honesty attached to this in that war has finally been declared after forty years of preparation.

The results are astounding;

Industry dismantled.
Iron and steelmaking gone.
Aluminium smelting, nearly gone.
Copper smelting?
No ship building, gone to Korea.
No automotive industry. Gone.
No dams, agriculture on the brink.

Education, totally weirded out and dysfunctional.
Politics and government; in self preservation mode and showing no interest in trying to actually govern.

And it will be interpreted as a day of triumph.

No wonder so many Australians are feeling lost and despondent when the nation we thought we were building was actually being dismantled.

Is there a statesman in the house to pick up the pieces and start rebuilding?

KK

• #
Latus Dextro

No chance.

• #
OriginalSteve

Stupid is as stupid does….

• #
Travis T. Jones

It’s ‘science’, [snip].

“A medium-sized dog has the same impact as a Toyota Land Cruiser driven 6,000 miles a year, while a cat is equivalent to a
Volkswagen Golf.”

Please, won’t somebody think of the children?

• #
theRealUniverse

The lunatics are truely running the asylum.

• #
Latus Dextro

Therein lies the new lower carbon sinning meat source. Let them begin and let’s see them dining on dog and cat. That should energise the Greenista quite effectively.

• #
Kalm Keith

It’s a great word Jo, so expressive of the situation.

Smug!

• #

With rather meaningless lives in a civilization they’ve been taught is a toxic imperial invader, the gullible, the lost and the resentful were easy pickings to be swept up into a fake movement promising salvation, better weather, nicer insects and less jellyfish. The nonsense runs wild, and placards prophesy a dying Earth in a game of theatre designed to spook weak politicians. This was climate propaganda week after all. These people were part of the advertising.

• #
Kalm Keith

Got it,

“designed to spook weak politicians”

Sadly isn’t that all we have; Weak Ps.

• #
Another Ian

KK

I think you need an “as” in tbhere

• #
Kalm Keith

?

• #
Kalm Keith

OK I got it.

• #
Raven

Great piece, Jo. . . “nicer insects” . . Hahaha.

It reminded me of hippies.
“Hippies” are much maligned these days and most detractors use it as a derogatory reference interchangeably with their other favourite, “boomers” .

I’m a boomer but not a hippie. Back in the day, most people thought hippies were a bit strange, but at least they did move off the grid, grew their own vegetables, went vegan and lived more or less sustainably. OK, there were some ‘other’ vegetables grown as well . .

Whatever else, hippies had a dream and a vision and at least tried it on for size.

• #
Power Grab

Speaking of meaningless lives…

I saw a local news video about how the lack of concrete instruction in schools has led to young people’s destructive behavior.

The speaker in the video talked about how, “back in the day”, schools offered classes in sewing and cooking (and woodworking and metalworking and car shop).

I took classes in cooking and sewing, in addition to the usual book-learning classes. Personally, I tend to feel proud of myself when I make something. Once you get a taste of how good it feels to make (build) something, it tends to turn your attention away from destroying stuff…right?

Kids today waste so much time not building anything real. It’s all playing with virtual buttons on screened devices. I can’t imagine living as a young person today, and having no achievements to feel proud of.

I am sure there are those who are inordinately proud of the high scores they rack up on games on digital devices. But that is a CONSUMPTION activity. I doubt there are many people who can make a living playing games on digital devices.

Maybe these brainwashed young people are so easily misled because everything in their life is PRETEND. And most of the pretending that they do is pretending to DESTROY stuff.

• #
David Wojick

I wonder if they will be able to pull this off again next year? If not then they have peaked too soon, because the UN crunch time is November & December 2020. Monday’s meeting means nothing, a day of speeches. Next year is the big money showdown.

Also, the impossible goals are useful, because they cannot be enacted, so they must be ignored.

Here is my latest analysis:
Is the “climate crisis” a cruel hoax or tragic blunder?
https://www.cfact.org/2019/09/18/is-the-climate-crisis-a-cruel-hoax-or-tragic-blunder/
There is no science supporting the crisis narrative. Greta & Co cite the October IPCC report on 0.5 degrees of future warming, but that report nowhere says this is a threshold to catastrophe. She even presented a copy to the U.S. Congress. A blunder for sure.

Then bad news is that the youth movement is real. We did not know this until today. The good news is that it may not matter.

Still I close my article with this warning:

This madness would be great fun if it were not so threatening. Invoking emergency powers to achieve an impossible (and pointless) goal is a clear prescription for disaster. And history is replete with cases just like this, where mindless zealotry seized power with disastrous consequences. The threat of extreme climate change action is now far greater than the threat of climate change.

• #
AndyG55

“The threat of extreme climate change action is now far greater than the threat of climate change.”

That needs stating out loud and clear many times.

• #
theRealUniverse

I was thinking that exact same thing. Good words David, so true.

• #
Latus Dextro

The threat of extreme climate change action is now far greater than the threat of climate change.

True.
However, it is not the threat itself nor the implementation of any subsequent actions to address it, but the consequences that are a greater threat. Don’t believe for one moment that half the population of the civilised World, let alone the developing World will idly stand by as they are impoverished out of existence by a bunch of power crazed neo-Marxists.

• #
Sceptical Sam

Yep.

When fantasy meets reality, make sure your prepared for the fireworks.

• #
Sceptical Sam

you’re.

• #
PeterS

I think most of us can put up with these poor old fools and we can let them protests as long as they don’t go overboard. What I’m really annoyed at is all the main political and many big business leaders are either sucked into this nonsense or at best don’t have a commitment either way but still act as though we still must reduce our CO2 emissions at all costs. That’s the real sad part. Such leaders are actually letting this once great nation fall apart.

• #
OriginalSteve

Letting it by accident..or otherwise?

At what point does climatology become Tr*****n?

• #
PeterS

For some at least it’s gone past that point. It’s hard to know at this stage who is acting the ignorant fool and who is acting the real criminal. One thing is for sure though. They are all in it together so that makes them all equally culpable.

• #
yarpos

There was a funny cut away in the middle of the gushing ABC coverage of the kiddies climate protest in Melbourne. While showing the protests in Melbourne the switched briefly to a bunch kids on the ski slopes holding up signs spelling “climate action now!”

So there they are, the rich kids on the ski slopes, surrounded by snow and blue skies in mid September in Australia. Oh yes the horror of the climate. I wonder how they got there, I wonder what their designer ski gear is made of, I wonder what their skis are made of. I wonder what the evening snow makers and the snow ploughs and the ski patrol snowmobiles are powered by. The hypocrisy runs deep in these ones.

• #
Yonniestone

To be fair the rich kids are only there because their parents travel to ski resorts to improve their financial position hoping to meet Moguls……

• #
Greg in NZ

I’m a poor old snowboarder and I loathe moguls! And young rich kids in brand-new gear…
Your Flim-Flammery nutbar was interviewed on our state-sponsored radio this morning by the rabid lesnutbar Kim Hill (shudder):

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018714277/tim-flannery-20-years-in-climate-activism-a-colossal-failure

I texted the show to say the ‘colossal failure’ should be put in a padded cell rather than given air-time – for some reason it wasn’t read out, yet others’ were which clearly and scientifically showed him up as a fool and a charade, to which he denigrated as ‘predators’ and ‘deceivers’… dear Lordy, the man is sick in the head and the hypocritical hostess, too, for allowing him to get away with such Cycloptic religiosity (she’s an atheist believer).

Problem is, people fall for this tripe.

• #
Latus Dextro

Greg in NZ, you deserve a medal for your bravery.
I’d opt for dripping aqua regia over that rancid, self-preoccupied, hissing socialist State sponsored vixen. People do not fall for the tripe. Those devoted to listening to Comrade Hill are already in a self-imposed ideological straight jacket. I suspect they epitomise the frappe elite. It would be preferential were they exposed to critical analysis, but in the end, I think many will eventually slowly get there. After all, they enjoy their plane trips and working overseas, although the climatism guilt is tricky to live with. The cognitive dissonance will chew away at the soul of many.
I’ll wager the listening number for Radio & TVNZ are inexorably dwindling.
The climate change indicators of the US National Climate Assessment are reviewed in ‘My Gift To Climate Alarmists’ by Tony Heller and elegantly, comprehensively and beautifully shown as cherry picked alarmism.
You can’t hide the data, only deny it.
The Left projects. It’s what they have always done since 1848.

• #

Yarpos:

Much to your idiocy, snow lay on the upper slopes of Kosciuszko annually; all year-round, from January to December, as well as yielding an Alpine (Subantarctic Dfc) climate. Please, try to keep in-line with the facts before you spout. And September? Jointly with August, September is the snowiest month in the upper alps.

I do not appreciate such misinformation in the slightest.

• #
robert rosicka

Horse hockey !

• #
robert rosicka

Actually yes you’re right there was and there was also glaciers in the valleys below and even glaciers near Marble bar .

• #
William

I have been driving from Sydney to Canberra for years and never have I seen snow like Tuesday – between Sutton Forest and Goulburn, and almost to Canberra, there was thick snow on the ground as far as the eye could see. The trees were covered with snow. When I drove back in the afternoon, there were still patches of thick snow lying on the hills around Goulburn. Clearly proof of rampant global warming – as is the early European snow.

My money is on yet another colder than average winter for the Northern Hemisphere. BTW, around here it felt like the coldest end to winter and start to spring that I recall. No doubt it will be recorded by the BOM as the warmest ever.

• #
Geoffrey Williams

Why don’t these people just go home (without transport of course) and then switch of their electricity at the mains for 24 hours and see how they get on without it. Oh and throw away the car keys while you’re at it. As we all know they wouldn’t last 5 mins without their fossil powered electricty or cars. So whenever they come up with their useless marches and chants we should challenge them; walk to school and home, no mobile phones, no meat pies or sandwiches, no bottled water, no soft drinks, no classroom heating or air conditioning, and lots lots more.
Their marches will achieve nothing! They will all wake up to reality sooner or later.
GeoffW

• #
Peter Fitzroy

Coincidentally this week snow fell in Australia right down to 560m in one area, and it was also starting to fall already in the Northern Hemisphere, in Sweden, China and California.

First rule – conflate climate and weather.

There is no science supporting the crisis narrative. Greta & Co cite the October IPCC report on 0.5 degrees of future warming, but that report nowhere says this is a threshold to catastrophe. She even presented a copy to the U.S. Congress. A blunder for sure.

Second rule – deny the science (and before you go all shouty, show proof that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas)

Anyone can say fossil fuels are evil. But let’s count the protestors living without them

Third Rule – set up a false equivalence

We are however missing the fourth rule
We need baseload power and coal, and only coal (or gas at a pinch) can provide that

so 7.5 out of 10

• #
Geoffrey Williams

Ok Fitroy now your making some sense.
GeoffW

• #
Geoffrey Williams

Sorry Fitzroy got your name wrong.
GeoffW

• #
Lance

No one that I’m aware of disputes that CO2 “has” an effect and “is” a “greenhouse gas”. As a practicing Registered Engineer with over 35 yrs of practice, I’d like to state the following Facts for your consideration.

1. A true greenhouse has glass walls and roofs that prevent convective heat transfer. The atmosphere has no solid boundary. So the atmosphere is Not a “greenhouse” and as CO2 is a gas, it is not a solid boundary, and convection does in fact take place within the atmosphere. Water vapor has many times more impact in absorbing solar radiation than CO2. Water vapor is, in fact, the major “greenhouse gas” as you describe them.

2. CO2 has a logarithmically declining effect because the absorption cross spectrum becomes saturated beyond about 40 ppm. The first 40 ppm matter a great deal. After that, every doubling of concentration has decreasing effect. The more that is added, the less effect it has on absorption.

3. CO2 doesn’t “trap” energy. It absorbs it at one frequency and re-emits it at a longer wavelength. No energy is trapped. Each molecule of CO2 is a point absorber/emitter with a spherical absorption/emission geometry. The probability of emission is equal within that sphere, there is no preferential emission direction. All things being equal, CO2 can only delay energy transfer for a microsecond or so. It does not “focus” energy towards the earth.

Regarding your “Third Rule”. Anyone CAN call fossil fuels evil. That is an ethical or moral judgement. The number of people living without benefit of fossil fuel energy and products is a countable, factual, number, not a moral or ethical judgement.

The point is this: It is hypocritical of “warmists” for want of a better term, to demand the end of fossil fuels when in point of fact, they use them every day. Plastics, electricity, transportation fuel, pharmaceuticals, metals, concrete, ceramics, paint, etc. There is literally no aspect of modern life that is not touched by fossil fuels and their derivatives.

I appreciate that you do not care for fossil fuels. What I do not understand is how you think the world can function without them. Solar and Wind cannot ever be a dispatchable energy source because it is inherently intermittent and unpredictable, with capacity factors of 20% and 30% respectively. There are not enough raw materials including silver, lithium, rare earths, etc, to support a solar or wind based energy supply for anything other than niche applications. Grid Scale on a Baseload capacity is simply not possible, now or ever.

You are entitled to your opinions, but they are simply opinions, not facts.

Tell you what. Why don’t you demonstrate how a terawatt scale grid can be reliably powered by solar or wind or some combination thereof using known technologies. Further, demonstrate how it will be integrated into a national grid, how it will support voltage, frequency and reactive power requirements. Also show how a black start will be accomplished. Feel at liberty to take your time.

• #
Graeme No.3

Lance,
agree but the main cause of energy loss from excited CO2 molecules is by kinetic transfer i.e. collision with other gas molecules. They can also gain energy that way too, but as CO2 is outnumbered like cowboys by indians in a Hollywood film……
As for radiation being the main source of heat in the atmosphere this is unlikely. The earth’s surface is 70% water which is a lousy radiator of IR. Then there is evaporation and conduction (anybody seen rising air shimmering near the ground on a hot day?).

As for the idea of a solid surface in the atmosphere (with no change in optical properties) causing a real greenhouse, this was dismissed by Fournier in the 1820′s, and as he was the one coined the phrase Greenhouse atmosphere, this must carry some weight.

• #
Lance

Yes, yes. I understand the kinetic theory of gases. What Fourier also observed is that the source of the energy into the atmosphere was the Sun. Sunlight is “white light” of essentially all wavelengths. All gases absorb and re-emit some portion of that spectrum. They also vibrate and collide with other molecules. The convective cells mix them all up and an average temperature is achieved. If CO2 were the “blanket” that is claimed there would be a “hot spot” at a certain elevation, but there isn’t.

CO2 is a tiny player. Water vapor dwarfs any aspect of CO2 in terms of energy absorption, re radiation, and kinetic molecular energy.

CO2 “controls” nothing. Its effect beyond the 40 ppm minimum is logarithmically less and less important with increasing concentration. That’s the point.

• #
Peter Fitzroy

Lance your first point is obvious, but let’s just say that there are a number of molecules which absorb and readmit IR, and for convenience sake we’ll call them greenhouse gases, rather than molecules which absorb and readmit IR. Is that good enough

Your second point: very true – but the effect is more pronounced at 560 ppm, not 40 as you state. A link to a peer reviewed article would be appreciated

Your third point – another true one, but you missed out the back radiation bit

• #
AndyG55

A link to empirical proof of warming by atmospheric CO2 would be appreciated.

But it will be a LONG time forthcoming, won’t it PF!

You know by now that such data does not exist.

• #
Lance

Actually, the majority effect of CO2 absorption occurs in the first 20 ppm. 40 ppm is generous. a doubling.

Your link to evidence that a pronounced effect occurs at 560 ppm would be in order.

Back radiation is kind of a non sequitor if the emitter is spherical as all point sources are.

• #
Lance
• #
bobl

Peter, he didn’t miss any back radiation bit. Back radiation is just the slightly less than 50% of the spherical reradiation that intersects with the ground the idea being that more CO2 begets more spherical radiation which begets more radiation returned to the ground. By the same argument more radiation must escape to space.

Since the energy source is constant the NETT must be Source minus the radiation to space which must decrease with CO2 concentration. The models posit however that you can have more radiation to space by cooling the stratosphere at the same time as you have more surface warming by the fraction returned to the ground. A cooler stratosphere emits less IR. In another universe that might be possible but in this universe the rate of heat flow is related to the difference in temperature, you can’t increase the differential in temperature between the surface and stratosphere without causing increased convective heat flow which in the end has to be dissipated to space.

There is a bunch of other physics the environmental people get wrong because environment degrees don’t teach physics. One of those is the idea that there is a atmospheric emission height from where all IR is emitted set by the radiation temperature of the planet and that the width of the IR emission band will broaden with CO2 concentration. These guesses are wrong. The width of the emission band is set by the speed of the particles by the doppler effect – Speed = Temperature as far as gasses are concerned. IR is emitted from the entire depth of atmosphere with the “wings” being emitted from the lowest/hottest/fastest molecules and centre from higher/cooler parts of the atmosphere. The band you see from space and the radiation temperature is the integral (average) of all the emissions.

This also means that CO2 IR emission does saturate

They also inappropriately use bode (feedback) theory. Amplification though feedback requires an independent energy source and an amplifying (active) element. These things don’t exist in climate, there is no way to add energy to the system in climate without taking energy away from something else, The Total energy is the same. There is no climate transistor to wrap our feedback around. Also you can’t use bode theory on non-linear or variant systems (such as climate) and if you do you end up with unstable or saturated outcomes.

So CO2 cools the planet, we know that, it’s a pretty peculiar argument that is used to posit that CO2 can cool and warm at the same time, an argument that is not backed by satellite evidence

The Models say the the cooling stratosphere will emit less energy and positive feedback implies that as temperature rises LESS IR will be emitted to space and more retained (against the physics I just gave you). IE as temperature rises the earth cools slower making the earth hotter. Satellites show IR emission increases with surface/atmospheric temperature as I just showed. What this says is feedback is negative, As Temperature rises the earth cools faster which opposes the heating keeping the planet at a more constant temperature.

The Satellite evidence is clear, the models ARE WRONG.

• #
Peter Fitzroy

Lance your first point is pedantically obvious, but let’s just say that there are a number of molecules which absorb and readmit IR, and for convenience sake we’ll call them greenhouse gases, rather than molecules which absorb and readmit IR. Is that good enough

Your second point: very true – but the effect is more pronounced at 560 ppm, not 40 as you state. A link to a peer reviewed article would be appreciated

Your third point – another true one, but you missed out the back radiation bit

• #
Andrew McRae

Four months ago I wrote a parody of Attenborough-style nature documentaries about snowboarders being endangered by climate change and having to migrate. Today in following PF’s link ’560′ to the personal climate FAQ of well-known Uni NSW climate scientist Steven Sherwood I find this disturbing advice:

Most of the life on Earth lives “on the edge.” 1C is enough to bleach corals, for example. A tree, animal, or skier has to move about 150 km poleward for each degree of warming to maintain the same climate envelope. At current warming rates this is about 5 km per year, which is impossible for most plant species, so forests will get left in the dust.

I thought I was making up an original parody, then I find an actual climate scientist saying the same thing.
But before I commit too many more heresies, let me get back on-message.

We already had a case earlier this year of at least one snowboarder riding snow in Albany W.A. (35°S) when they’d usually be in Falls Creek, Vic (36.8°S). That is a movement equatorwards of 207km in 1 year.

Following the global warming drama script, the meaning of this data is clear.

It’s worse than we first thought.

Not only are our endangered snowboarders trying to migrate about 41 times faster than anyone thought necessary in a desperate attempt to survive climate change, but they are going in the wrong direction. This is direct evidence that climate change has impaired the delicate biological magnetic navigation senses of snowboarders, leaving them to rely only on other more vague and erroneous sensory subsystems such as GPS.
The earth is screaming right now. Only a solution far in excess of the problem would be anywhere near sufficient. Only an army of 35 Greta Thunbergs cloned in a lab and dispatched immediately via jumbo jet to Western Australia can avoid a snowboarder genocide. That is the only scientifically supported response, as it is one Greta Thunberg for every gigatonne of CO2 we’re emitting annually, or 1 GT/gt.
Blind we are, if creation of this clone army we would not seek.

• #
Greg Cavanagh

This document you linked to does not mention 560 anywhere. Where are you getting this figure from?

• #
theRealUniverse

Your item #3 is so correct. But the opposite is preached in all the so called (fake) CO2 energy budgets you see published by big Govts and other vested organizations.

• #
AndyG55

“deny the science”

What science??????

You certainly have never presented any.

You can’t even explain how the climate has changed.

• #
Peter Fitzroy

thanks for proving my point

• #
AndyG55

You mean the fact that you cannot support any of the farcical science that is called “climate change”

Yes, you keep proving it in every post you make.

What science do we “deny” that you have empirical proof for.

WAITING !!

• #
Peter Fitzroy

Now I have posted these before, and your response is just negation, with no alternative.

Put up or prove me wrong

• #
Lance

OK.

So, now, predict the future. A week in advance will do.

Then we’ll believe you.

• #
DennisM

Peter,

The first URL you have listed (https://www.mdpi.com/2225-1154/5/4/76/htm) takes us to a paper where the last sentence of the author’s Abstract says “This study demonstrates that changes in atmospheric CO2 concentration did not cause temperature change in the ancient climate.”

How does this paper, that you have quoted, prove your assertion that CO2 is a greenhouse gas?

• #
AndyG55

1. Meaningless correlations, and the irony of the PF faceplant.

This study demonstrates that changes in atmospheric CO2 concentration did not cause temperature change in the ancient climate.

2. “explains how predictions of future climate change are made using climate models.”

Climate models ..oh dear, not evidence of anything… faceplant again PF

4. Yes, there is CO2 in the atmosphere .. that is GREAT NEWS. !!!

5. Rhetorical propaganda pap with zero empirical evidence of CO effect.
It has warmed… Strong solar cycles will do that
Much of it is just LIES and mis-information for the gullible.. ie people like PF.

Where is the empirical evidence linking CO2 as the cause of this highly beneficial warming , PF?????

PF bats ZERO from 5

• #
AndyG55

Such a scientifically empty post as PF has put forward could ONLY come from a brain-washed fool with basically zero comprehension of science.

• #
TdeF

Some of what you say is good. However before demanding a proof that CO2 does not produce warming, what about a proof that it does? After all, CO2 driven warming is the (second) proposition in the argument of man made global warming and reversing the onus of proof does not establish truth of it. However I would guarantee that ocean warming increases CO2. That is established physical chemistry.

More importantly, before you even get to CO2 producing warming, there is absolute proof that aerial CO2 is in rapid equilibrium with the vast amount of CO2 in the world’s oceans, containing 50x as much CO2 as in the air. So you have to prove that mankind is responsible for the increase of CO2 in the first place. Unlike every other element, biological Carbon is dateable up to say 100,000 years. There is virtually no fossil fuel CO2 in the air.

If mankind is not responsible for the increase in CO2, what are we going to do about the warming? Despite the enthusiasm for the dominance of mankind over the planet, that is late 20th century arrogance, not science. A single volcano would prove the point at any time.

What about the other proposition that the warming (source unknown, but perhaps the sun) of the oceans releases a little more CO2 following Henry’s law which says that if water temperature goes up, gas comes out.

So then you get to the question of why alleged climate scientists like Al Gore and Tim Flannery would say something which is not true. I can think of 1,500,000,000,000 reasons every year. The money available for global warming pseudo scientists is unprecedented in world history. They are rolling in the stuff. Even big oil (BHP/Billiton and more oil giants) are going along with it. So are the politicians. They are all short termists and in the short term, it pays to agree with voters and shareholders, even if they are completely wrong. • # TdeF Remember also that the prediction was that the air temperature would increase dramatically. That has not happened. However everything I am reading is about water temperature increasing which supports my simple statement that when you heat the ocean surface, CO2 comes out. This is not a complicated piece of science, but something everyone one knows to be true. The warm flat beer effect. The key is that so much CO2 is in the water. We know there is a lot of oxygen because fish breathe, but CO2 is 20x more soluble as we know from every day life. Those bubbles in your drinks are all CO2. • # AndyG55 Last I saw was NASA data showing the total global ocean heat content had increased by a scary 0.08ºC in the last 60 years. • # TdeF Personally I think it’s a great idea. No one likes ice ages and they come as quickly as they leave. A warming planet means more CO2, more life. In the latest National Geographic on the warming arctic they are bemoaning that the beavers and all animals are moving North to take advantage of the new land. The beavers are building dams which are hastening the melting of the permafrost. Everything is releasing CO2 from old rotted plant life, which the authors think should be kept in the ground. So they are bemoaning the victory of life over a dead frozen waste? All because they believe the world is ending due to CO2. Perhaps they could stop to ask themselves what all the dead forest matter is doing under the ice, but I suspect they are not that clever. • # Peter Fitzroy So, are you arguing that CO2 is a greenhouse gas? • # AndyG55 Unable to read or comprehend, hey PF Or just trolling. ? Where is your empirical evidence that increased atmospheric CO2 causes any warming? Bring your “science” PF WAITING ! • # TdeF It’s interesting to talk about CO2 as an infra red radiation blocking gas. There is an important point missed by most. Yes CO2 does block some light in some parts of the spectrum as do all gases. Most are transparent in the visible spectrum or we would be living in the dark, except for the major blocker, water. Water as steam, clouds or droplets, frozen, rain is by far the most important greenhouse gas on this planet. The skies can go black in the middle of the day but up at 60,000′ it is bright sunshine with bright white clouds below. A steamy hothouse. In contrast if all the CO2 was gone with its limited blocking in the infra red spectrum, I expect you would not notice a drop in temperature but you would notice that all life on earth would be dead quickly as the plants died under 0.02% CO2. Starved of their only food. The story that the earth would be frozen is rubbish. The water is still there. The planet is 75% water and 400x the weight of the entire atmosphere. And the rest of the atmosphere, 99.98% would still be there. The clouds would still be there. You notice this in the cloudless desert, scorching days and frozen nights. Clouds can come and go, summer and winter, storms but CO2 is constant. However the very important point missed by most is that once a gas blocks its part of the light spectrum it cannot do any more. CO2 has reached that point. So more CO2 does not mean more greenhouse effect. Most of the effect from CO2 is already in place. There is no need to fear rising CO2. The effect tapers off quickly from now. Whether we increased the CO2 or it is natural is irrelevant. Even if the CO2 blocking of infra red was really significant, the idea that increasing from 0.04% to say 0.06% will increase the effect proportionally is wrong. Or as Prof Ian Plimer explained, pulling down one shade is enough. Pulling down two makes little difference. • # TdeF And we are being told an increase of 50% in a tiny, tiny gas is significant, more than the first 100%. That does not make sense, as if the next 50% is critical. No it is all fake science. A made up unproven story of incredible danger threatening mankind and the greatest rort in history. Most people behind it are not even physical scientists. It is the age of Fake News and Fake Science and another generation of gullible children to be taught lies. • # bobl We must remember though that this is because of refraction of light and latent heat of condensation, not reemission of IR, since CO2 is a gas at all temperatures that matter it does not refract light as liquid H2O Does. CO2 doesn’t condense to any degree in the troposphere so it’s incapable of creating the inversions, suppressed temperature gradients and pressure gradients that suppress/enhance convection and cause weather. It’s mostly water that causes weather. • # AndyG55 Everybody knows that CO2 is a so-called greenhouse gas, PF (proper description is a radiatively active gas) But despite decades of study, there is still no empirically observed data showing a causal link from increased atmospheric CO2 and atmospheric temperature. That is “the science” PF.. Do you DENY it ? • # el gordo Exactly, CO2 is a dud. By comparison H2O is not an invisible blanket and has the ability to maintain overnight warmth. https://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/mammatus-after-a-warm-night-in-melbourne/530239 • # AndyG55 H2O only acts they way because it took energy upwards as a cooling mechanism. Without convection and evaporation, it would not be there. • # el gordo Excuse my ignorance, does radiative forcing happen at night? • # AndyG55 Down-wards radiation happens from H2O at night, yes H2O also slow the “temperature” cooling at night and during the day, while transferring the energy as latent heat instead. • # el gordo Okay, thanks. • # bobl And because it condenses and releases that heat and lowers air pressure as it rises, water can carry so much energy aloft as latent heat of evaporation that it reverses the temperature gradient which almost completely suppresses convection. That’s what happens in a real greenhouse. • # Peter Fitzroy All true el gordo – the argument goes like this, add a bit of CO2 and get a tiny bit of warming, which in turn raises the dew point allowing more water vapour to stay in the air (its an energy thing really). Rinse and Repeat. So you see the point that without the extra CO2 induced warming (and here it really is about latent heat energy) you would not be forcing more water vapour into the atmosphere. • # Lance The problem with that line of thinking is the logarithmically decreasing effect of CO2 with concentration. The more CO2 that is added, the less the effect after the first 40 ppm. So the amount of warming as a result of CO2 between 300 and 400 ppm is nearly zero. If thermal runaway as a result of CO2 concentration were truly real, the Ordovician period gives the lie to that concept. CO2 was at 5,600 ppm (800% higher than now) and it was an Ice Age. https://www.iceagenow.info/ice-age-occurred-co2-levels-800-percent-higher-now/ If CO2 were correlated with positive feedback, history says that the Earth would have burned up if the “CO2 causes warming” theory were correct. We’re still here. Whatever feedbacks exist have to be negative. • # Peter Fitzroy not proof Lance. I asked why 40 ppm – making up numbers is bad science and worse engineering • # AndyG55 No proof from PF of anything. Making up ideologies and religions (your admission) is not science of any kind. But it is “social” engineering, at its worse. • # Lance So, I’ll do it your way, Peter. Prove that it isn’t. • # Peter Fitzroy I linked the proof upthread • # AndyG55 “I linked the proof upthread” And you FAILED magnificently , as always. • # Lance Peter, I’m going to make things simple for you. It doesn’t matter if your ideas are correct or incorrect. What matters is that the raw materials, financing, construction capability, and control technology DO NOT EXIST such that fossil fuels can be eliminated from the generation mix without plunging the World into a pre-1850 lifestyle. Period. Nothing you say changes this reality. Nothing. If you were serious about your beliefs, you’d embrace nuclear power of the transuranic or thorium cycles. That would solve your claimed problems. But to flog the dead horse of “CO2 Bad. No Coal, No Gas, No Petroleum, or We’re All Gonna Die” is nonsense. Get real. • # AndyG55 “the argument goes like this” and it is an unproven argument Never measured anywhere. • # Peter Fitzroy well, not by you at any rate • # AndyG55 Nor by anyone. You know that You know you cannot produce it. That is why you go with the hilarious headless-chook routine of distraction and avoidance. • # AndyG55 “without the extra CO2 induced warming” Which has never been observed or measure. —– Without the strong solar cycles, you mean , PF !! https://i.postimg.cc/MG70Ghgm/Solar-Geo_cycles.gif • # el gordo Vuk is good, nice graph. Even if Fitz remains recalcitrant, the class of 13 year olds thank you. • # el gordo We know that when the planet is warmer there is more precipitation and also an increase in CO2. So the problem for many people is in thinking that climate change is linear when in fact its cyclic. Gaia has a pulse which regulates the system and the extra industrial CO2 is benign, yet highly beneficial for biodiversity. As the Holocene Interglacial has passed its used by date I’m putting it all down to divine providence. • # Bobl Except that measurements show that this doesn’t happen, increased heat has lowered, not raised specific humidity. Look it up. In fact what you and the environmental science grads suggest is in fact physically impossible, because evaporating water and raising it to 10km requires real additional energy which is released to space, IE the feedback mechanism has a real cooling effect greater than the suppressed cooling that’s supposed to drive it. This is just another serious physics error made in climate circles, You must remember that back radiation doesn’t add any real energy (just redistributes it), when you invoke an effect that causes real cooling like evaporating water the nett effect goes with real energy change which would be cooling. • # Lance Apparently, the Gore Effect is in full bloom in AU. Protesting Global Warming in the snow. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-20/climate-protest-in-the-snow-at-mount-hotham-in-victoria-1/11533518 • # toorightmate Peter Fitzroy, At long last, some sense. Thank you. • # @ Peter Fitzroy: “First rule – conflate climate and weather.” Which was of course, exactly my point. Every odd weather-day is a #climateemergency except when it’s not. Children won’t know what snow is and all. The same people who used to mock skeptics for talking about one cold year are now happy to milk “one hot weekend”. Nobody mention the snow. Climate used to be about 30 year trends until the trends stopped doing what they predicted. • # And snowfall may turn out to be the last evidence left standing. Given the trenchant manipulation of every dataset there is, it must bother the PR machine that real snow cannot be adjusted away. • # Peter Fitzroy It may well be, Jo. Like El Gordo, I wish for a cooling trend. Unlike him, I do not see the evidence. As to the extremes, should either end of the distribution be counted? They are the noise which hides the signal, or at least thats my view. • # AndyG55 “I do not see the evidence” Yep, you totally refuse to see any evidence that counters your brain-washed ignorance. And we don’t see ANY evidence from you PF The best you can come up with is a load of propaganda pap about sea level rise, ocean acidification extreme events etc, All of which is provably NOT linked to human influence, mainly because most of it just ISN’T HAPPENING. • # Peter Fitzroy Now I have posted these before, and your response is just negation, with no alternative. Put up or prove me wrong also since we are talking about the last 100 or so years, don’t bother with stupid unattributed screen shots for the last millenia • # AndyG55 Same list as above PF scores ZERO out of 5 First one is particularly amusing , where it states “This study demonstrates that changes in atmospheric CO2 concentration did not cause temperature change in the ancient climate” Seems PF has again picked up a load of random links from somewhere without reading or comprehending them. So funny. ! • # AndyG55 And the last link to the NASA site. Its a hoot, for sure. Must have been posted as a joke. Blatant propaganda lies from start to finish Where is the empirical evidence in that link, PF. • # el gordo Peter the NASA image showing CO2 has not been this high since the beginning of time is simply wrong, the ice cores are flawed proxy. Stomata gives a more accurate reading. • # el gordo ‘I wish for a cooling trend. Unlike him, I do not see the evidence.’ Climate change happens slowly. If we acknowledge that every thousand years the planet warms slightly over a period of 200 to 300 years. The Medieval Warm Period and Roman Warm Period are two examples which suggests climate change is cyclic and therefore predictable. Because we know the duration of these warm blips it should be possible to calculate how long it will take before our worldview is turned upside down. On a macro and micro scale, global cooling has begun. Now for homework, with each of these warm epochs the climate deteriorated at the end of the cycle, find out what the weather was like and the mechanisms involved? • # David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz Afternoon Jo, Way back when I studied some Geography climate graphs were produced with 30 year data intervals, i.e. one data point on a temperature or rainfall graph was used to represent data over a 30 year period. I always thought that was because, up to that time (1960 and earlier), that was about the best precision available. Carbon dating was discussed, but not widely used then. Climate classifications were fairly localised, with some broad categories ( equatorial, polar, coastal, desert…). I think the finer groupings are still used, and at least look similar. Darwin is still tropical and monsoonal, the UK is still affected, softened, by the Gulf Stream, and we’ve still got those droughts and flooding rains. The sand dunes between Bar Beach and Merewether are still there and some have been built on. Cheers Dave B • # Sceptical Sam and before you go all shouty, show proof that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas Peter, that’s not the issue. And it’s not science either. As you know, there are many so-called “greenhouse” gases. But the Earth is not a greenhouse. The issue is the alarmists’ hypothesis: man-made CO2 is the predominant driver of catastrophic global warming. It’s for them to provide the evidence that supports that hypothesis and to do so in light of the evidence that supports the Null hypothesis. At this stage they have not done so. In fact, the evidence clearly supports the Null. • # DMA Here in Bozeman, Montana the climate strike, march and rally were promoted for the last week and set for today to start at 1 PM. The rain started at 8:30AM and got heavier throughout the day. The temperature is dropping and snow is a real threat. I have been grinning all afternoon as I work on a pot of chicken noodle soup and contemplate the soggy affair in the park. • # Graeme No.3 Any sign of Al Gore in the township? • # Greg in NZ Or Leonardo di Crap & Co.? • # theRealUniverse Greta is Swedish , she should be used to snow • # Peter C I visited the Climate March in Brisbane yesterday and spoke to several participants. I asked them why they thought CO2 could cause global warming. One person was a it confused by the question. The others all responded with the line that 97% of scientists agree. One thought that the figure was likely 99%. They did not distinguish climate scientists from other disciplines. That was followed by the trust your doctor line. The most sensible person I spoke to was a young documentary maker. He thought that most of the protestors did not distinguish the CO2 threat from other environmental problems. It is a sort of holistic thing, all mixed up together, CO2. Plastic, chemicals etc. I though the protestors were fairly ill informed about the things they were protesting about. My estimate of the Brisbane crowd was 5000 to 6000. I must be a poor judge of crowd size. The ABC news said the crowd was 30,000. • # Yonniestone Your experience was the same as mine when questioning trade union members about their opposition to whatever they were opposed to on that that day. A flock of sheep with an ill informed mindset of collectivism, none of them would have the sense or courage to think for themselves or hold their leaders accountable for anything. • # AndyG55 “I though the protestors were fairly ill informed about the things they were protesting about.” Ya think ! Really. • # David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz I didn’t attend any march and wouldn’t have if I could have. But did watch some of the TV coverage. The bit I got out of it was that the kids in view and/or interviewed range from early primary school age to late secondary. My easily-jumped-to conclusion is that I was seeing evidence that the whole Australian school system has been corrupted by this religion. And the teachers at all stages are as guilty of child abuse as those practitioners we’ve seen before the courts. Causing high levels of anxiety in kids of all ages by preaching false “science”. I despair. Although I guess there is hope, and I say thank you to the person who posted this link, a NSA rebuttal of CO2 caused climate change: https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-08-30-nasa-admits-climate-change-not-caused-by-suvs-fossil-fuels.html No. I’ll keep going, in spite of these (personal snip here). Cheers Dave B • # robert rosicka David I used the same link on Facebook and had this fact check thrown at me debunking the claim , but as far as I can tell it’s six of one half dozen of the other . https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nasa-climate-change-admission/?fbclid=IwAR2yCDImYqc4IaTC4sirr-8dHExJCoQasUUAxUoEo7c9VgpAY6LK2pXec9A • # David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz Thanks RR, I think the Snopes article is a bit shorthand. I’ve picked out two pars from it to challenge: ” This story was picked up by the website Natural News, where it gained further virality. One of the more telling approaches for outlets that promote a specific brand of climate-change denial is to report as news their “discovery” of something that, while perhaps new to them, is fundamental to the field of climate science and in no way in conflict with the concept of anthropogenic climate change. When climate scientists discuss evidence for anthropogenic changes in the climate system, they do not simultaneously argue that there are no natural causes of variation in the climate system. Asserting that would be a straw-man argument. Evidence of natural climate variability is not evidence of a lack of human input into the climate system. That is, however, the sole premise both the Natural News and Hal Turner posts work with, per Natural News: ” In Par 1, I. generally agree with the concept that the Milankovitch cycles are basic to discussions about climate, but hadn’t heard or read of any discussion from warmists about its relevance. And the existance such significant cycles should have allowed discussion about the possible existence of other shorter cycles, eg solar?? In Par 2, “climate scientists” routinely ignore any natural causes and present their material as if such things don’t exist. As I understand it, the IPCC specifically excludes any such discussion or research. I consider the snopes “false” conclusion to be excessive, but the headline may be over egged. Cheers Dave B • # theRealUniverse NO, thats the NASA management covering their ass… • # David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz G’day again RR, I reckon this quote, from the original naturalnews article, means that the article should have been a big “True” award: ” In 1982, six years after this study was published, the National Research Council of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences adopted Milankovitch’s theory as truth, declaring that: “… orbital variations remain the most thoroughly examined mechanism of climatic change on time scales of tens of thousands of years and are by far the clearest case of a direct effect of changing insolation on the lower atmosphere of Earth.” ” It’s precise, and accurate as gar as I can tell, and includes a specific statement about the role of the sun. Cheers Dave B • # robert rosicka That’s a far better explanation than mine thanks David . • # Peter, good on you for going. Did you get any photos of crowd sizes? These things are always so easy to exaggerate and exploit. If we had a drone (and it was legal to use it) it would be well worth auditing those numbers. • # Graeme No.3 Jo Nova Years ago Piers Ackerman (I hope that’s right, not a reader) got into a storm of abuse (homophobic etc.) for questioning the estimates of the crowds at the Gay Pride and MardiGras parade in Sydney. The estimates went from 100,000 (police) to 150,000 (TV) to 250,000 (ABC). He pointed out that the march was 1.6 km. long, so with 3200 metres “packed” with spectators at one metre spacing, and standing 10 deep, the maximum could only be 32,000. He further pointed out that the ‘crowds’ were quite sparce on the TV broadcast and even with a figure of 3 deep the total number might be an exaggeration. When I was at Uni the ABC managed, with artful camera editing, managed to increase a protest of 6 into a mob scene of 2,000 students protesting against the University’s decision. As I observed the start, the arrival of the ABC film crew + reporter etc. I made a point of watching the ABC News that night. And most students would have been well aware that the University had no say in the decision anyway. Estimates from TV reporters are not always reliable and those on ABC TV are bound to be exaggerated. • # Dennis PM Rudd’s rent-a-crowd scenes managed by deceptive camera angles to turn a small bus load into a crowd. They were once caught being handed Kevin07 shirts for the rally and handing them back after it was over. • # Peter C Did you get any photos of crowd sizes? Aerial view of the crowd gathering in Queens Garden, Brisbane CBD. I estimate about 3000 protesters as shown. https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&id=993D85B7C4D826AC73D6CCF9762A742115B99161&thid=OIF.RoJSHOUrcLYU2emMnspacw&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.newsapi.com.au%2Fimage%2Fv1%2Fa06bd0af93fc4aa7afcb91ef11b2bb4e%3Fwidth%3D1024&exph=387&expw=687&q=brisbane+climate+protest&selectedindex=251&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=0,1,6 I thought the crowd was about 50% larger when they were being revved up by the demagogues, before they moved off across the bridge. • # robert rosicka So a university gave credits to students if they sent a selfie from the crowd , way to go if you weren’t going to pass you just turn up protest and voila an instant pass . • # joseph I just had a look at my social credit meter and it looks like I’ve just lost a few points by visiting this site. • # el gordo We appreciate your sacrifice. • # Annie I expect mine is in deep negative territory! • # Tom O What a wonderful excuse to not learn to be a responsible citizen – the world is going to end in 12 years, why learn? As if living with a greening world in their future with greater landmass to live on – if what they claimed was true, the land lost to a rising sea would be replaced by land taken back from the unlivable north. People so incapable of thought should be used as fish bait for all the large fish that will grow in the rising seas. Like those people they “blame” didn’t live through a period with the nuclear nightmare hanging over their heads, and the possibility of a world that couldn’t support life at all. He lived through it, learned and became people that gave birth to idiots and imbeciles. It IS all our fault because we gave them a world too easy to live in. And I’ll be damned if I will give up what I have earned because they aren’t capable of earning anything. I know see the need for robots and AI – don’t have the workers, and the current generation can’t think or understand(but they can do every trick in the book on their cell phones). If these “children” are the future, well, there isn’t a future, just a fast pass back to the dark ages. They deserve that, those that made the world they live in, however, don’t. • # Dennis I though that it ended Year 2000 and that now I am living in paradise. [wink] • # Adaminaby Angler Tom O: You mean to say URBAN children, not ALL children. Thank you very much! My nephew and likewise most rural youth are nothing like how you describe them—they can easily think for themselves, and don’t even look at phones etc…instead, they go fishing, hunting, and what have you. Please, open your mind just a little bit. • # David Maddison The level of propaganda and brainwashing we are now seeing is relentless and unprecedented in recent times. It is akin to what the Nazis, Maoists and Stalinists produced and what North Korea continues to produce. It is exactly what Orwell warned us about, although the Leftists have interpreted his warning as an instruction manual. • # I remember the anti-hydro fervor of the lead-up-to-Hawke ’80s, back when the prosperous burgers of Lane Cove and other leafy ‘burbs were so scandalised by working class Tasmanians that some were driven to searching for the Franklin and Gordon Rivers on a map. Back then you bought Saabs and Volvos to show your sympathy for the planet (reasons still obscure, but deeply felt). Yep, it’s always been up to those space-saving, flat-pack Swedes to be first to save the planet. (Saving Sweden right now is another matter.) But Sweden’s greatest contribution to civilisation is the lecturing, matronising, sourpuss female. And now we know the secret to that: start early in life. • # Graeme No.3 Nowadays they are just as fervently pro-dam so long as it is called pumped storage. How easily ABC (and SBS) viewers believe what they see (and hear). • # Pumped storage. Yet another use for coal power, albeit a waste. I swear Malcolm Turnbull was put in power by some cackling Mr Burns type to load us up with as many white elephants and green boondoggles as the public could stand without turning to Bill Shorten in utter desperation. Malcolm had me looking back to unfinished school halls, dinged-up laptops and disintegrating batts with a kind of nostalgia. Ah, the good old days when you could see those balls of yellow fluff rolling round the streets like tumbleweeds in old westerns. Come back, Kev and Pete! (Not really.) • # Dennis Method in his apparent madness: “Born Lucky” • # Geoffrey Williams When these kids get home after their climate picnic day outing, their parents should explain to them the facts of life – no, not those juicy ones, they already know all that! Explain to them the ‘harsh realities’ of modern western civilisation; In the home electrity is an essential, the washing machine, the cooker, the dishwasher, etc etc. If they really care try managing without it for say 24 hours and as I said above they won’t survive for 5 mins. The car in the garage that Dad picked you up from the station in, after you day out, well that dont run on thin air! Dad has to put fossil fuel petrol in the tank. Would you like to continue your protests by walking to school Monday morning? And ps while we’re on cars you should know that just to manufacture that shiny machine with an engine under the bonnet probably cost about 10,000 carbon emissions. Tell that to your teacher! Ask him if he or she walked to work. Explain to them that nothing is free and just about everthing you do emits CO2. And that holiday in Spain next Xmas, are you coming with us or staying home and without the central heating! And lots lots more . . . But if Mum And Dad are school teachers none of this will happen of course. Everyone in the family will watch television and message on their computers and feel smug and satisfied that they have at least ‘done something to save the world’; Oh look there’s Greta in New York telling the UN that we must take concrete actions to save the world isn’t she wonderfull ? Trouble with conctete actions they use all that CO2. How is Greta getting home Mummy? Bet she’s not swimming. GeoffW • # Turtle I would guess that less than 1% of that crowd could answer the question “how much warming has there been?”. Popular answers would include “I’m not a scientist” (yes, but you have Google and if this was so devastatingly important surely curiosity would lead you to want to know such a basic fact), and “It’s not global warming it’s climate change, you’re so old fashioned” (so fashion is more important than facts). • # AndyG55 ““It’s not global warming it’s climate change, you’re so old fashioned”” Yes you are old fashioned. Everything is now a “climate EMERGENCY” leading to climate injustice. ! • # Greg in NZ Climate C.R.I.S.I.S. Uncanny how those last 4 letters keep regurgitating… is / is. • # Zane It has been upgraded to a ” climate catastrophe ” by many media shills. • # Please ….. think of the children. What will happen to them all when they find out they cannot replace coal fired power with renewables. They don’t know that, because they are too young to actually know it and understand it for themselves, so they are only believing what they are being told by, umm, the adults, their teachers, who the children believe should know these things. I worry for the children, and what will happen to them when they find out that they have been lied to by everyone. Silly me. They don’t want to know. All they need to know is that the 240 comes out of the ‘hole in the wall’. Until it doesn’t! Tony. • # TdeF It’s another religion, like all ages. They will go from true believers to agnostics to atheists through a lifetime, like most people. Give me a child when he is young. The left of politics though wants a revolution soon based on Climate Change or at least to have these children in ten years all voting in a caring socialist government which will control their thoughts forever. After that, even if you disagree, whether in Iran or Venezuela or Cuba or China or Hong Kong, it will not matter. That’s the value in indoctrinating the children. The teachers are the problem and they are told what to believe by the socialist parties. It’s all about controlling the teachers who take their politics from their peer group and the Labor teacher’s unions. • # Dennis Tony, a blogger commented that there will always be a wind turbine operating somewhere in Australia, so we will always have electricity. Not kidding. • # Lance Ask that blogger if the functional wind turbine produces 50 Gw. • # Lance Well, the Warmistas are Zero correct and 41 Wrong in their predictions of climate catastrophes. https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2019/09/20/nolte-climate-experts-are-0-41-with-their-doomsday-predictions/ Why does anyone believe a group that has been categorically wrong for 50 years? The only evidence they have are their failed predictions, nonsense models, and tampered data. • # AndyG55 The funny thing about this is that not one of the kiddies would ever have experienced and “climate change”. Atmospheric temperatures over Australia are the same as they were 17 years ago (17 should include most of the kiddies) https://i.postimg.cc/s2bLbqZN/UAH_Australia_17_years.png Sea levels are the same as 17 years ago, having dropped down from the slight El Nino surge https://i.postimg.cc/QxMqkSF9/Sydney_tides_17_years.png Again I ask… what has changed with the global climate over the last 40 years that can be scientifically linked to human activity. Why is it such a hard question ???? • # AndyG55 typo correction The funny thing about this is that not one of the kiddies would ever have experienced any “climate change”. • # Dennis I agree Andy, but the fact did not deter a young electrician installing an air conditioner for me from saying that it is definitely getting hotter every year. His older offsider gave me a knowing look and smile. • # el gordo ‘Why is it such a hard question ????’ It might not necessarily be the right question, because of its confrontational nature. • # AndyG55 Its a simple question Either they can prove there has been some human induced global climate change… OR THEY CAN’T !! • # el gordo You and I have been given the task of explaining to a class of 13 year old girls that the world is not coming to an end. They have become anxious and depressed, apparently. We could start by asking them questions that they can answer, PF and GA could be the token boys. • # AndyG55 Thanks for pointing out that these kiddies are CLUELESS about what they are protesting about. Well done. PF and GA have stone-like minds, incapable of changing, … no matter how little fact is behind their brain-washing. You would ask them exactly what they thought had “changed” about the climate in their lifetime, and show them how utter wrong their thoughts are. The ones that still have some of their minds left, might actually realise they have been conned, if peer pressure and social engineering of society allowed them to. So the question becomes: What has actually changed the global climate in their lifetime that can be scientifically linked to human activity? We see that neither PF or GA can answer this basic question. They do everything they can to avoid answering.. Perhaps they know the answer is .. “we can’t find anything’ • # Dennis Greta struggles to find answers too, I noted on television news of her visit to the US Congress. • # el gordo Yes … Recently the US authorities acknowledged that the Class A type UFO is real, but they don’t know its origin. There are many theories, yet no solid evidence. We are more advanced with climate change, for example every 11.07 years there is a Venus-Earth-Jupiter alignment with the sun and tidal forces put it to sleep. This is important, because scientists know that when the sun is quiet it makes the world cooler. Take the time to look at a blank sun and be amazed, its a spotless solar minimum. • # joseph Does the sun really have anything to do with climate ? • # el gordo It has become apparent that every thousand years the planet is warmer, this is no coincidence. If we call our present warming the Modern Climate Optimum, do you know the names of the other warm epochs? • # Serp You could suppose, for argument’s sake, that it doesn’t and then see where that proposition leads you and thus make a start on answering your own question. • # Serp Here’s a good place to start: sciencebits.com/ice-ages And then work back from the big picture presented by the passage of the solar system through the galaxy to the localised effects considering just the energy output of the sun itself. • # el gordo Imagine what a class of 13 year old females, without the slightest understanding of the topic, would do with your suggestion. They are not interested in maths or science and I fear that Josephine and friends won’t be putting their names down for Climate Science 101. • # Dennis There is a video produced for 60 Minutes Mexico regarding UFO sightings and video images taken from many different angles around Mexico City during a military parade. The 60 Minutes producers asked viewers to send video (tapes) in for examination and comparison, and hundreds obliged them. I remember that a NASA propulsion engineer who viewed the UFO images said that they appeared to be using “field propulsion”, and that NASA had been working to develop it for years. • # Ruairi Remember the Children’s Crusade, In 1212 to the East to invade, Though twenty thousand strong, It went horribly wrong, And their doom was the price that they paid. • # Senex I don’t know about Australia, but images of the protesting children in other countries that I saw consisted of >95% girls… • # el gordo Its an emotive issue, the maternal instinct coupled with a total lack of interest in science, leaves them vulnerable to snake oil salesmen and carpet baggers peddling propaganda. • # Geoffrey Williams ‘A cute’ observation Senex. And who is their roll model? Greta Funberg of course . . . Ah well perhaps it’s all part of growing up. GeoffW • # Greg in NZ Greta McGrumpyFace Joan of Arc is the modern-day name of a teenage woman who, driven by voices she heard… called herself Jehanne la Pucelle, or Joan the Maid.” https://www.livescience.com/38288-joan-of-arc.html Man-Maid Gobble Wimmin: “Modern-day medical doctors have speculated that she may have suffered from a medical condition, such as schizophrenia or a form of epilepsy, which made her hear voices”. No… she’s the messiah! Like Ellen G. White with Twitter™ andoros’ bank account.

• #

Aye, you’re 100% correct! Girls are much more emotional than boys—that is fact.

• #
Dennis

I see CO2 Greta & family …

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EE6L2yaU4AACw-v.jpg

• #

@ Tony
” … what will happen to them when they find out that they have been lied to by everyone … ”
I found this out earlier this year when I was asked to help a kid with an uncanny resemblance to Saint Greta, but who lacked the sycophantic support that Greta enjoys. There was an outburst of anger that I had anticipated, but was much more extreme than I expected. “I’m going to kill her.” “Her” being the teacher who knowingly, in ignorance, or simply for self-preservation, had been peddling this nonsense. We managed to calm her down. She is now in contact with two other kids who know it is all a lie, and they are looking after each other. Rule of Three.
No point asking the Psychological Societies of Australia, UK, USA for help. The administrative councils of these agencies are all in lock-step behind this criminal scam, and apparently their policy is to make it worse.
On the other hand, a friend who works for Headspace has suggested that kids affected in this way can access their support.

• #
Dennis

Well done Martin.

• #
Greg Cavanagh

Interesting insight Martin.

Perhaps one day when this house of cards collapses there will finally be a reckoning and a significant backlash. Against who I can’t guess at this point. Already the MSM has lost a huge chunk of it’s credibility and is in decline everywhere. If science, politics, or authority lose the same credibility as the MSM has done, society could tear itself apart.

They say that science advances one death at a time. And I’m beginning to think that this CAGW fiasco may go the same way.

• #
Dennis

How can the average person work out the truth when every other politician makes comments that he/she believes in (IPCC) climate change?

Even some admitting that human impact might be minor.

• #
Dennis

Australia banned from attending the IPCC Conference in the US, also the US Government and Japan, because our countries have not agreed to pay part of the $100 billion a year the IPCC is demanding from member countries. I trust that President Trump will explain to Prime Minister Morrison why it is time to turn our backs on the UN organisations, and the Paris Agreement. • # robert rosicka Dennis, Getup are peddling the lie that Morrison is refusing to go to the climate summit. • # Dennis GetUp would say that Robert, wouldn’t they. Another Soros export to Australia, given a new brand name here, foundation supported and part funded by the union movement, union boss and later Labor Leader Shorten was a founding director of GetUp. • # • # Peter Fitzroy Spot the new religion Apparently a lot of people want to find a messiah to follow: Joan of Arc, which is the allusion here was the same age as Greta – so go girl • # Peter Fitzroy And estimates are that around 4 million participated world wide – now that is serious star power • # Dennis I understand the Scientology Church has more members Peter, that the Church of Climate Change scientologists. • # Peter Fitzroy I see that you misunderstand. • # el gordo I understand, sir. Joan was burnt at the stake for heresy and witchcraft, Greta is no saint. • # Peter Fitzroy They were both young women who had a great impact • # AndyG55 Greta’s is only there because of the media blitz and the indoctrinated gullibility of poorly educated fool like you, PF. She offers nothing that is REAL. • # Greg Cavanagh Greta has no education or understanding whatsoever. How is she a role-model for anything? The fact that she has been put in the limelight is a disgrace to the media and to the politicians and UN personnel who willfully use an ignorant child. You might like her message, but her message has no substance. She couldn’t even write her own report to congress, instead she handed them the IPCC report, which she herself has never read. She doesn’t know what it says but thinks she supports it, whatever “it” is. As do her followers. The blind leading the blind. Willful ignorance is no virtue. • # AndyG55 Yep, Its been an astounding success of social manipulation and brain-washing. The creation of a whole new RELIGION I wonder what the Islamists think of this. • # AndyG55 Yep, Its been an astounding success of social manipulation and brain-washing. The creation of a whole new RELIGION • # Annie Serious mass delusion, more like. • # AndyG55 Finally PF admits it is a purely RELIGIOUS cult meme. Well Done PF ! • # Dennis I second that Andy • # AndyG55 ps.. green thumb for such an up-front admission, PF:-) • # AndyG55 Do you have a picture of Saint Greta to watch over you at night, PF ? To ward away all that evil CO2 you breathe out. She can SEE what you are doing, PF And she is ashamed of you. • # Bill in Oz She wound up burned as a heretic ! What a role model ! • # Lance Joan of Arc was not a manipulated Aspergers child. Odd how you use children to purvey your fantasies. • # Peter Fitzroy No as odd as you insulting her intelligence – I was making a point. Are you saying that she is not entitled to her stance because she has aspergers, is less than 80 years old, is a woman. Degrading comments like that one should be deleted by the admins, although they do show the paucity of your view. Attack the science, do not attack the person. • # AndyG55 Which fact that Lance said was incorrect Greta is an manipulated child with Aspergers, no-one can DENY this fact. She has been force fed a diet of wacky unsupportable non-science which she regurgitates on command. The perfect frontperson for a religous cult. Do you kneel before her image each night, PF ?? • # Peter Fitzroy how do you know that she is manipulated? Why is Aspergers important? Another degrading comment • # AndyG55 You degrade yourself, always, PF.. LYING to yourself habitually Running away from science like a coward. You are so naïve that you can’t see she has been chosen for this job by other parties, and manipulated because of her illness. It is the people who have done this to her that are truly disgusting. • # AndyG55 “how do you know that she is manipulated?” She is a product of modern leftist education, (when she can be bothered to attend) .. of course she has been manipulated and lied to. • # AndyG55 “I was making a point.” And as always, a pointless, irrelevant point. • # Another Ian A bent point then? • # AndyG55 Never was a point, bent or otherwise. A pen with no ink A pencil without a lead (called lead, but is actually wax and graphite.. ie carbon) A candle without a wick. • # Annie Look how she ended up. Although I disagree with Greta’s (or her parents’) stance I would not wish bad things for her. The way she has been used is disgraceful behaviour by all the ‘adults (?) concerned…it stinks. • # No surprise she comes from a family of actors and performers: mother, father and grandfather. One story is that she got her mother to sacrifice a singing career because of the aviation. Another story is that she came to notice while striking and holding a sign. I’d suggest that Greta is a walking story, another “Joyce Mayne” character, carefully concocted by media groomers. We are told about her mother’s sacrifice and about her ocean voyage; we are not told about the flights of the family and entourage which keep the Greta show on the road. (Greta simply did not know how she was going to get home from the US, she only knew how she was getting there. That’s a lot not to know when you’re on the cover of TIME for being a total smartie.) The “nurse” who helped kick-start Gulf War I was an ambassador’s daughter who had been prepped and scripted by a PR firm. AOC was produced by a casting call, just like the Monkees. She did not rocket to prominence, she was rocketed by party and media after careful vetting and meeting a list of requirements. Greta too meets a list of requirements. Aspergers/autism is the height of fashion, promoted almost as a superpower, and would have been the clincher after several movies and TV shows giving it a boost in recent years. Right now, if you are not gender-fluid you need to be at least a bit Aspys. As to why, if I understood I’d be ashamed. Nothing to do but turn off their refuse media…and do coal • # I wonder just HOW she will be getting back home. A bit like the airlines back ten to twelve years ago, when they offered offsets for your flight. You know, pay a bit extra, and someone, somewhere plants a tree on your behalf to offset the carbon (dioxide) you are responsible for with your being on the plane. The CO2 still gets emitted mind you, but you have the smug virtue signal that you have offset it. (the truth is that scheme didn’t last all that long, because very few people took up that pay extra option.) I’m willing to think that’s how Greta’s handlers will spin her return home. There’s only so many yachts and crews eh! Tony. • # Peter Fitzroy I’m guessing you have detuned your BOYZ from OZ tour vehicle to offset any savings you might have inadvertently made https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal • # AndyG55 What a meaningless post from PF !! You truly are an idiot ! btw, Modern coal fired electricity is WAY cleaner than the manufacturing of wind-turbines and solar panels. • # Peter Fitzroy Ask nicely, the OZboys might have a spot for a roadie • # AndyG55 You could go as a boot-licker. ! Or a stray dog. • # Analitik I’m pretty sure I read that the same yacht crew who delivered Greta to the US will be taking her back. Of course they flew home to Europe after the delivery and will need to fly back over for the return trip but at least Greta will be spared the personal climate change contributions of air travel (overlooking the huge additional air travel of the sizeable yacht crew in proxy for her adherence to the cause). • # Greg Cavanagh I heard she will be on a site seeing tour flying from country to country. She’s not going straight home, she has supporters who want to parade her around the place. The rest of the legs home will be by aircraft. • # Zane There are massive vested interests behind all of these nonsense climate protests. I think I have finally tracked down one of the main perps. Aloys Wobben, German wind baron, owner of the privately held Enercon Gmbh, biggest wind turbine installer in Germany, 313 on Forbes global billionaires list with a net worth of$5 billion. Enercon does annual revenues of €5 billion plus and has 80000 employees. I can only imagine how powerfully this guy is connected to the German Bundestag. With proportional representation in Germany, the Greens 10% of the vote translates into 10% of seats in parliament, giving them the balance of power and huge clout over policy. Much now makes sense about the foolishness of Germany’s so-called Energiewende, the low carbon transition.

These vested interests, wholly reliant on endless government subsidies, are the force behind the climate juggernaut.

• #
Serge Wright

We should allocate some land down in Antarctica and send all the climate zombies down there to escape their imaginary emergency. No only will they get to learn that ice doesn’t melt at -50 degrees C, they will also learn what a real cimate emergency feels like.

• #
Dave in the States

Sea level rise seems to be the visual image of alleged global warming, along with polar bears, that most casual observers seem to connect too. It is what is put on the magazine covers and often mentioned off hand by breathless reporters.

Tell most Americans that it amounts to 1mm per year same as it has for hundreds of years and it won’t register. Americans don’t know what a millimeter is. Nor a meter. Maybe tell them that in 25 years the tides will be about 1-inch higher and it might register.

Maybe tell them that the Obama’s just bought a 16 million bux beach house at Martha’s Vineyard, to supplement their 20 million bux beach house in Hawaii then watch the gears start turning.

• #
Dennis

Al Gore’s Florida mansion not under the water yet Dave?

sarc

• #
gee aye

Let’s all count the number of successful protest movements that did not come from people living in the society impacted by the thing they were protesting about.

• #
AndyG55

Depends what you call a “successful” protest.

Sheer numbers on un-educated kiddies on a Friday off from school. ???

And please tell us how any of the kiddies has been impacted by actual changes in the climate.

Changes that basically haven’t occurred

What climate change impacts, GA ?????

• #
toorightmate

How many school children participated in Russia, China, Japan and India.
still, I guess there are not many school children in those countries, AND, I guess those countries do not burn much coal, nor generate much power.

I’ll just have to keep guessing, I guess.

• #
Peter Fitzroy

China did not authorise any protests for the rest use your browser

• #
AndyG55

Yes PF, we know that China, India, Russia etc burn heaps of coal and oil

They rely almost totally on fossil fuels, it is the mainstay of social and economic development..

Just like coal and oil were the absolute mainstays of western development, and still are, an will remain to be.

Do you have a point ?

• #
Zane

Pat made an important post yesterday about 500 institutional investors representing $45 trillion of funds under management hustling for action on climate change.$45 trillion carries weight. One of the names was Amundi, a French asset manager 70% owned by French megabank Credit Agricole. Amundi is the largest asset manager in Europe and in the top 10 globally. Where these guys decide to invest shapes outcomes. I imagine the green policymakers know exactly what they are doing with their carefully orchestrated street protests. They want to shame institutions into defunding so-called ” dirty ” energy and propping up windmills instead. And, I hate to say, they are having success. Look at Rio Tinto selling all its coal assets in Australia. Ditto Wesfarmers selling Curragh to Coronado for one time earnings. Look at BHP running TV ads nightly trying to tell people that steel is used in hospitals and cities. Well, yes. The Greens have got our big corporates on the back foot.

BHP cleverly hides the fact it is Australia’s biggest coal producer. BMA – BHP Mitsubishi Alliance – a 50/50 joint venture with 7 huge coal mines in Queensland, further disguised by the moniker ” Queensland Coal ” which might lead a casual looker to assume the Qld State government has some interest in it.

Poor old coal runs neck and neck with iron ore as Australia’s highest earning export. The economy depends upon it.

• #
Dennis

The Business Council last week asked corporations to get back to doing businesss and stop playing climate change virtue signalling games.

• #
Zane

The Guardian leads the online edition with the climate protests story. But no mention of the forces getting rich from the green bandwagon.

• #
Ross

Look what they are doing to Aussie school kids (look at the Guardian video)

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/20/ok-climate-kids-go-on-strike-but-not-till-youve-done-this-quiz/

• #
AndyG55

A video on data farce in the AGW religion (PF admits it is a religion)

https://youtu.be/8455KEDitpU

• #
joseph

Thanks for posting!

• #
Greg Cavanagh

Tony Heller rips them a new one. Gotta love that

• #
pat

time for another TDS melt-down. note CNN doesn’t associate China/India to coal; only to Pres Trump’s criticism of their “environmental records”:

Updated 21 Sept: CNN: Trump will hold session on religious persecution instead of attending UN climate summit
By Kevin Liptak; CNN’s Jennifer Hansler contributed to this report.
When President Donald Trump visits the UN on Monday, many of his fellow world leaders will be participating in a summit meant to address climate change. Trump won’t be there.
Instead, the President is chairing his own session focused on worldwide religious persecution…
This time, he’s missing an event that will feature dozens of world leaders delivering climate pledges in short remarks. Not every country in the UN was invited, and it’s unlikely Trump would have been asked to speak even if he wanted to…

Other countries that rely on coal, like Japan and Australia, may also be excluded. But some key US allies like Germany, the United Kingdom and France are expected to participate. And countries like China and India, which Trump has criticized for their environmental records, will also be there, according to a draft agenda.

Instead of the climate summit, Trump will convene a session on worldwide religious persecution that his aides are characterizing as the centerpiece of his visit to the UN next week.
The sessions will overlap. According to the draft agenda, China’s representative will speak at the climate summit around the same time Trump’s religious persecution event is getting underway…

“On the climate change issue, we just want to focus today on the actual event that the President is going to be doing,” another official said. “The Secretary-General will be participating in the religious freedom event.”
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/20/politics/trump-un-climate-summit-religious-persecution-session/index.html

• #
pat

20 Sept: Bloomberg: China’s Energy Game Plan Features a Giant Coal-Hauling Rail Line
by Bloomberg News; With assistance by Feifei Shen, and Hannah Dormido
BEIJING – There is nothing quite like a massive coal rail to demonstrate China’s loyalty to the dirtiest of fossil fuels.
Almost a decade in the making, the nearly $30 billion Haoji Railway will start this month and eventually haul as much as 200 million tons from key producing regions in the north to consumers in the south. That is more than Japan uses in a year and could cut China’s domestic seaborne coal trade by 10 percent in the long run, Fenwei Energy Information Services Co. forecasts. In a world where governments and businesses are under pressure to leave fossil fuels in the ground, the new rail is decidedly old-fashioned… One of the main reasons for building the nearly 2,000-kilometer-long (1,250-mile) railway is to ease transportation bottlenecks in the domestic supply chain. China is rich in coal — concentrated in the northern provinces of Inner Mongolia, Shanxi and Shaanxi — but the distribution is uneven… The impact on top exporters such as Indonesia and Australia may be muted because overseas coal tends to be cheaper, said Zeng. Imports account for less than 10 percent of China’s coal consumption… It currently takes about 20 days to deliver coal from Shaanxi to Hunan, Hubei and Jiangxi via the main seaborne route. The new line could cut shipment time to just three days, Ding estimates. Power plants will have more flexibility in managing inventories and responding to abrupt shifts in weather conditions, which can affect electricity use… “Cheaper supply will hit the market. Competition between coal producers will rise,” Ding said… The share of coal in China’s energy mix is falling, but consumption of the fuel will continue to rise, said Teng Suizhou, marketing director of Hubei Jingzhou Coal & Port Co., which is building storage and port facilities to serve the new line… https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-19/china-s-energy-gameplan-features-a-giant-coal-hauling-rail-line • # pat “wise” words from John Holdren, professor of environmental science and policy in Harvard’s Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences, former science adviser to President Barack Obama: 20 Sept: China Dialogue: John Holdren on China’s climate leadership by Feng Hao In an exclusive interview with China Dialogue during a recent visit to Tsinghua University in Beijing, Dr Holdren talked about the current setback between the US and China in climate cooperation and what still can be done to address the global challenge… Q: There is much attention on China’s climate actions. Are you concerned that China’s coal consumption is showing signs of rebound in the past one or two years? A: It is difficult to judge from short-term changes whether they are a trend or just a fluctuation, because many factors influence how much of the various fossil fuels each country burns each year. We will have to wait and see. But I am optimistic that China’s emissions from coal burning will go down. And ultimately, China’s total greenhouse gas emissions will peak and then start to decline. It is fortunate that China remains committed to reducing its greenhouse gas emissions and is still, on the national level, determined to meet its commitments. And that is in part because Chinese leaders recognise that climate change is already harming China… Q: What do you think of “clean coal”, which is much talked about by the coal industry in both China and United States? A: I don’t think it is possible to have anything that remotely deserves the label “clean coal” unless carbon dioxide is being captured, and not released to the atmosphere. Even so, coal would not be absolutely clean: there would still be environmental impacts from coal mining, transport and combustion. I think there will be a transition away from coal ultimately… Q: Do you think there is a leadership void since President Trump’s decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreement? A: China has become the biggest deployer of renewable energy in the world, including not only hydropower but also wind and solar. That is an important form of leadership in deploying the cleanest energy technologies… https://chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/11526-John-Holdren-on-China-s-climate-leadership • # pat NRDC, vies with Holdren for the #1 position as China apologist: 19 Sept: NRDC: Han Chen: UN Climate Summit: Will Leaders Deliver on Phasing out Coal? The momentum for coal phaseout is growing rapidly… In Korea and Japan, basically the final stragglers among OECD countries… Over 100 global financial institutions have restricted or ended support for coal mining, coal-fired power plants, or related investments. This includes financial institutions from Japan, Singapore and China… We already know that countries such as Japan and Australia have not been invited to speak at the UN climate summit, likely because of their refusal to decrease their use of coal and ongoing construction of new coal-fired power plants. As developed economies with relatively high per capita emissions, it’s disappointing that neither country is increasing climate ambition, and justifiable that they won’t be given prominent roles at the summit. But what about other nations?… India and China, while relatively low emitters per capita relative to high-income countries, are still planning to build new coal plants domestically. At the same time, both countries are far out in front when it comes to renewable energy development domestically, so expectations are high for potential announcements from India and China that demonstrate their commitment to increasing ambition under the Paris Agreement. e’ve also written for years about the need for countries, primarily China, Japan, and Korea, to stop funding coal projects overseas, though none of the countries have yet signaled they will end support for coal plants overseas at the summit… https://www.nrdc.org/experts/han-chen/climate-summit-will-leaders-deliver-phasing-out-coal read all: 23 Jul: WashingtonFreeBeacon: Green Activists With Ties to China Advised Obama State Department NRDC’s role in Paris Agreement revealed by FOIA emails by Kevin Mooney The Natural Resources Defense Council held close ties to the Obama administration, providing advice on joining the Paris Agreement while simultaneously maintaining ties to China, according to attorneys and policy analysts who have reviewed email records obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request. While many of the emails are heavily redacted, they provide insight into how the NRDC, a nonprofit environmental advocacy group, and its close associates in Beijing, sought to maneuver the United States into an international climate change accord that has all the “hallmarks of a treaty” without the “advice and consent” of the Senate, Bonner Cohen, a senior fellow with the National Center for Public Policy Research, explained in an interview. The United Nations’ Paris Agreement, which took shape in December 2015, figures prominently in emails between Jake Schmidt, the NRDC’s director of international programs, and several State Department officials including Todd Stern, who was a special envoy for climate change at the time of his correspondence with Schmidt in 2014 and 2015. Cohen calls the agreement “an instrument to redistribute wealth, through higher energy prices, from middle- and lower-income people to well-heeled renewable-energy providers and investors in developed countries, while spreading some largesse to elites in poorer countries via the U.N.’s Green Climate Fund.”… Some of the email messages from the NRDC to the Obama State Department revealed by the FOIA lawsuit are completely redacted with the entire body of message blanked out… “IER’s Big Green, Inc. database reveals NRDC received more than$87 million since 2008 from a core group of extreme left foundations that frequently fund this type of work,” (Tom Pyle, president of the Institute for Energy Research) said in an interview. “And that’s just the tip of the iceberg in terms of their funding.”…
Pyle remains skeptical that the NRDC is complying to foreign agent registration rules.
***”While the organization boasts of suing the U.S. federal government ‘about once every 10 days’ since President Trump’s inauguration, NRDC and its China office appear to take a flattering stance towards the communist government of the world’s largest polluter,” said Pyle. “This was exhibited best when NRDC praised China’s business-as-usual pledge for the Paris Agreement but pushed for extreme commitments from the United States…READ ALL

• #
Zane

Japan’s newest and most technologically advanced coal power station produces the same level of emissions as a natural gas plant.

• #
Rocky

Does anyone know of the initial Science Experiment that determined that CO2 is a problem?

• #
Graeme#4

I believe that it would be one of Arrhenius’ experiments.

• #
Peter C

No one has shown that CO2 in the atmosphere is a problem!

John Tyndall did good experiments in 1861 which showed that CO2 intercepts a beam of Infrared Radiation and less comes out the other end (either absorbed or scattered).
http://tyndall1861.geologist-1011.mobi/

• #
Graeme No.3

He also showed that heated CO2 radiates IR very quickly.

• #
pat

doubt if the social justice climate strikers would be happy to know ***Serco is involved in cycle hire!

20 Sept: Scotsman: Dockless cycle hire stations in Edinburgh closed after ‘wanton destruction’ of bikes
by Alastair Dalton
The operator of Edinburgh’s bike hire scheme is to shut all its dockless stations following thousands of pounds worth of damage from “wanton destruction” across the city, The Scotsman has learned.
Just Eat Cycles will close all 31 of its remaining “virtual stations”, where users do not have to lock bikes to stands.

It had planned to install around 70 such stations among a network of 100 by next March, where cycles are left freestanding but immobilised using internal locks.
The plans have been scrapped following unexpectedly high levels of vandalism.
In addition to 100 of the 500 bikes being damaged, as The Scotsman revealed in May, a further 50 have gone missing.

***Serco, which runs the scheme for city council-run Transport for Edinburgh, said it had been forced to increase its mechanics from two to five to cope with the damage…
https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/dockless-cycle-hire-stations-in-edinburgh-closed-after-wanton-destruction-of-bikes-1-5007687

Wikipedia: Serco operates the Santander Cycles scheme (for Transport for London)…

Wikipedia: Santander Cycles (formerly Barclays Cycle Hire) is a public bicycle hire scheme in London, Swansea and Milton Keynes in the United Kingdom. The scheme’s bicycles are popularly known as Boris Bikes, after then-Mayor of London, Boris Johnson…
Credit for developing and enacting the scheme has been a source of debate. Johnson has taken credit for the plan, although the initial concept was announced by his predecessor Ken Livingstone, during the latter’s term in office…

LOL

• #
Denis Parslow

Students protesting about a Climate Emergency are living in a climate of fear, brought on by a flood of misinformation with a drought of scientific facts resulting from high pressure from their teachers!

• #
PeterS

So it must be concluded that the source of the high pressure on the teachers whoever they are must be committing a serious crime for scaremongering, and should be treated accordingly by the appropriator authorities.

• #
Rocket Rod

As Benjamin Franklin said:
“We are all born ignorant but one must work hard to remain stupid.”
Climate alarmist twonks take note!

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• #
Travis T. Jones

It’s worse than I first thought.

NYC says 1.1M students can skip school for climate strike protest” but only 300k people actually showed up?

>> Out of that 300k, a third would be adults accompanying the children.

September 17: NYC says 1.1M students can skip school for climate strike protest

September 20: Tens of thousands of people turned out for the strikes with climate group 350.org estimating that as many as 300,000 attended.

• #
theRealUniverse

The total brainwashing of the masses is far worse now than what it was a year or 2 again. If we dont watch out, THEY will win.
It is very clear and obvious the sinister agenda behind this. Take over the youth of the world and you have the future.

• #
Zane

Obama brought in the Clean Power Plan in the US in 2015. This was designed to reduce and phase out coal power stations in the US. I can see a whole bunch of people who would benefit financially from this policy, except, of course, coal miners and electricity users. The Trump administration is trying to get rid of the CPP. Here’s hoping.

• #
AndyG55

From Ton Nelson blog

“And, admittedly small data set surveys are showing that only ~25% of the attendees were under 17 years old. So, 70%+ of that 250,000 weren’t even students… They were adults, a majority of whom had also ‘protested’ in the #MarchForOurLives, and other liberal causes. Surprise!”

The same crowd, sponsored by the same people.

• #
TdeF

Also remember Adam Bandt’s words, before he became a Green, the only Green MP in the House of Representatives, the democratic house.
“We tell them what they want to hear and when we get power, we do what we like”.

Why would people lie to children? The games is simple. Leftist teachers br*inwash children, with the support of the Left Universities and the Left media. All their sources of information while they are learning and trusting. Then reinforcement. Attention. Marches. Days off school. Guaranteed marks without attendance. No homework. Rewards. And Peer group pressure.

Hitler did the same thing with the Hitler youth. The future belongs to you. The Fascists and the Nazis were the National Socializts Workers Party.

Then it happens, rather quickly. In two years the 16 year old children will vote for Adam Bandt and friends. In four years, the 14 year old children. In six years the 12 year old children.

They will vote for anyone who promises an end to Climate Change, Corporations, cash for descendants of (black) slaves, justice for colonialism just as in Cuba, Uganda, Rhodesia, Algeria, Tunisia, Ethiopia, Libya, Egypt, Nigeria, Palestine, Gaza and no zoos, no one eating meat and no plastic straws or bags.

Then when they vote in these people, they will find the real freedom and justice promised by socialism or the sudden end of colonialism. In Uganda the people were forced to eat all the animals in the zoo as there was no food under Amin as he had expelled all the Indians who ran the railways and shops and businesses. An end to racism ended with a racist government practicing genocide and wiping out rival tribes and expelling on racist grounds.

Political control is the aim of Climate Day. However as even Kanye West said, eight years of a Black President and blacks are no better off. And nothing was done about g*n control in 16 years of Clinton and Obama, but if you elect another Democrat, they promise to fix all the problems they ignored for sixteen years which they now blame on Trump. Including Climate Change. Guaranteed.

• #
TdeF

In short, Climate Day is recruitment day.

• #
Robber

With all the climate models and scientists spending $billions studying the climate, can someone reference the research that shows the warming effect of 200 ppm CO2, 300 ppm CO2, 400 ppm CO2, 500 ppm CO2? • # Another Ian My wife picked this up on Farcebook. There was a photo of the rubbish left behind by one demo – which has now “done the varnishing trick”. Hopefully screen grabbed • # robert rosicka Nope didn’t come through but why am I not surprised at them leaving a mess . • # • # pat just a little above half the ***$100 billion some were predicting!

21 Sept: Bloomberg: Germany’s Green New Deal Doesn’t Do Much for the Climate
Angela Merkel again balances everything and pleases nobody.
By Leonid Bershidsky
The German government’s 54 billion-euro ($60 billion) climate deal, approved after about 20 hours of overnight negotiations on Friday, is a typical product of the reluctant coalition run by Chancellor Angela Merkel: It achieves a balance of interests and little more. If German voters want a more ambitious plan, and there are indications that they do, they’ll have to wait until after the 2021 election… It’s neutral from the budgetary point of view, meaning the government isn’t sacrificing its balanced budget for the sake of reducing emissions. It makes fossil fuels more expensive, but it does so slowly, and counterbalances the rising costs with promised cuts to other energy-related levies, such as grid fees and a renewable energy subsidy, and with incentives to take trains and buy electric cars. It also promises government investment in expanding the charging network for electric cars, and avoids burdening automakers with additional costs. One can see that center-right and center-left politicians had a hand in drafting the 22-page position paper that emerged from the talks – and that the Greens, Germany’s second-most-popular party but not a member of the governing coalition, weren’t there… The key element of the plan is the introduction of trading in emission allowances for transport and heating starting in 2021… In 2021, an allowance for 1 metric ton of carbon dioxide will be offered for 10 euros; that price will rise to 35 euros in 2025. After that, the government will start issuing fewer and fewer allowances to match its emissions reduction goals, and they’ll be auctioned; the maximum price will be set at 60 euros per ton of CO2. The idea is that by 2030, Germany’s greenhouse gas emissions will be cut by 55% from the 1990 level. This is quite a lofty goal, since only a 30% cut has been achieved to date, far from the 40% reduction Germany had targeted for 2020… The leftist part of the coalition, the Social Democrats, clearly was worried about the damage any fuel price increase would have on poorer Germans. A fuel tax was what sparked the recent Yellow Vest protests in France, after all… Merkel and her finance minister, Olaf Scholz, peppered their presentation of the plan with references to the teenage climate activist Greta Thunberg and the climate strikes held in many countries, including Germany. But Merkel also reminded her audience that politics is the art of the possible, and said the deal would fall short of “impatient young people’s” expectations. And, lo and behold, it did. After the presentation, the German branch of Fridays for Future, the movement founded by Thunberg, tweeted: “It’s a bad joke that the government praises Fridays for Future at the beginning of each statement and then tries to sell us decisions that further trample upon our future.”… According to a poll (LINK GERMAN) published on Friday, 63% of Germans say protecting the climate should have priority over economic growth. I wouldn’t be surprised if the government’s timid effort gave a boost to the Greens, who are only slightly behind Merkel’s Christian Democrats in the polls. They have been able to lure many of Merkel’s more liberal voters away, and they can keep doing so by demanding more climate action… https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-09-20/germany-s-climate-change-plan-has-environmentalists-seeing-red ***19 Sept: Phys.org: Germany planning climate action worth over 100 bn euros The coalition now looks to commit to spending “in the triple digit billions”, or at least 100 billion euros, according to the nearly 140-page draft paper titled “Climate Protection Programme 2030″ seen by AFP… https://phys.org/news/2019-09-germany-climate-action-worth-bn.html • # TdeF What would the German politicians know about child indoctrination and false values? Climate Change is big business and they manufacture or partner in manufacturing most of the world’s windmills. With the problems in the car industry, the world must buy more windmills. • # theRealUniverse Climate Protection Agenda Programme 2030″ Totally impossible. These idiots think they are protecting what exactly? Precisely what? Climate Protection is another meaningless term designed to make politicians look like they are doing something, but nothing. • # Phoenix44 It’s not science, its politics. Science tells us what might happen. What we do with that is politics. And we use economics to help us make that political decision. Those who disagree with the political solutions of Greens because they are Economics Deniers are not anti-science. • # When yer out ter bamboozAL restricted context is vitAL. Ht Tony Heller and poster’s comment @ Cliscep. https://cliscep.com/2019/09/17/the-conversation-bans-thought/#comment-43011 • # • # Dang! its the Huntersan video. err … better send Jo some chocolate fer bein’ a clumsy serf. • # Speedy I hope they played the Captain Planet theme song at them. It would be appropriate. Cheers, Mike • # Mickey Reno Anthony at WUWT asked for contributions so that he could attend the AGU conference in San Francisco. I gladly donated, and then realized it had been a while since I donated, er, I mean bought chocolate from JoNova. So I did. It’s not much, but I hope it helps. Keep up the good work. • # pat the “strikers” want 100% RE by 2030, but even CAGW believers like Hickel (who also writes for The Guardian) are sceptical on that point: 6 Sept: Foreign Policy: The Limits of Clean Energy If the world isn’t careful, renewable energy could become as destructive as fossil fuels. By Jason Hickel We need a rapid transition to renewables, yes—but scientists warn that we can’t keep growing energy use at existing rates. No energy is innocent. The only truly clean energy is less energy… In 2017, the World Bank released a little-noticed report that offered the first comprehensive look at this question. It models the increase in material extraction that would be required to build enough solar and wind utilities to produce an annual output of about 7 terawatts of electricity by 2050. That’s enough to power roughly half of the global economy. By doubling the World Bank figures, we can estimate what it will take to get all the way to zero emissions—and the results are staggering: 34 million metric tons of copper, 40 million tons of lead, 50 million tons of zinc, 162 million tons of aluminum, and no less than 4.8 billion tons of iron… The same is true of silver, which is critical to solar panels. Silver extraction will go up 38 percent and perhaps as much as 105 percent. Demand for indium, also essential to solar technology, will more than triple and could end up skyrocketing by 920 percent… And then there are all the batteries we’re going to need for power storage… This means 40 million tons of lithium—an eye-watering 2,700 percent increase over current levels of extraction… That’s just for electricity. We also need to think about vehicles…READ ON https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/09/06/the-path-to-clean-energy-will-be-very-dirty-climate-change-renewables/ 9 Sept: Irish Times: ‘Mindless growth’: Robust scientific case for degrowth is stronger every day Vast majority of new income from GDP growth goes straight to the very richest. by Jason Hickel (Dr Jason Hickel is an anthropologist, author and fellow of the Royal Society of Arts) Once confined to the small scientific community of climate researchers and ecological economists, the idea of degrowth is now blazing into the mainstream. Not surprisingly, people are trying to figure out what to make of it. Is it an inspiring idea that points the way to a better economy? Or is it a mad notion that’s sure to plunge us all into poverty?… The scientific case for degrowth is robust, and gets stronger every day. We know that high-income nations – including Britain and Ireland – must make dramatic and very rapid reductions to their emissions in order to avert dangerous climate breakdown, cutting carbon at a rate of about 15 per cent per year. This will require a massive mobilisation to roll out all the solar panels, wind turbines and nuclear power stations we need to get to net zero. But there’s a problem. Because high-income nations consume so much energy, it may not be feasible to generate renewables quickly enough to stay within a fast-shrinking carbon budget. According to climate researchers, the only way to make it work is to reduce total energy use…READ ON https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mindless-growth-robust-scientific-case-for-degrowth-is-stronger-every-day-1.4011495?mode=amp • # pat and from another “believer”: 22 Sept: Australian: A climate of burning money Bjorn Lomborg World leaders will soon arrive in New York for a climate summit likely to do little more than add to the hysteria drowning out any sober talk on climate policy… After 30 years of failed climate policy, more of the same is not the answer… At great cost, the Paris Agreement will reduce emissions by just 1 per cent of what politicians have promised. The UN body organising the Paris Agreement finds that if all its promises were fulfilled (which they are not on track to achieve), it would cut about 60 billion tonnes of CO2 equivalents, whereas about 6000 billion tonnes are needed to get to the promised 2C target… It speaks volumes that few governments ever establish the costs of such promises. One of the few that has is New Zealand. A government-commissioned report found that aiming for net zero emissions by 2050 would cost more than the entire current annual national budget. There would be “yellow vest” riots worldwide if such policies were genuinely pursued. We need to challenge the ever-more rampant talk about “catastrophic” climate change. Rhetoric has become unpinned from science… And we should remember one of the most powerful development and climate policies is to accelerate economic growth for the world’s worst-off. The most powerful way to achieve this is through opening up trade opportunities. That is very far from the direction the world is heading in right now. Yet research shows that a successful Doha round could increase the annual income of the world’s poorest by about$US1000 a person in 2030. This is not only good in and of itself but it also would deliver much more resilience and reduce vulnerability to any climate impacts the future will bring…
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/a-climate-of-burning-money/news-story/3b1b07a6de6fd03957db72d497b03359

• #
pat

who wants anyone, much less pollies, trying to cool down the planet?

21 Sept: RTL: While Luxembourg enjoys a summery weekend, snow has arrived in Sweden
A hotel in mid-west Sweden posted a picture of the substantial snowfall to their Facebook page on Tuesday.
Dan Norström, who has worked at Långbergets Sporthotell for over 20 years, has been quoted in local press saying that he has never seen snow arrive this early…
https://today.rtl.lu/news/science-and-environment/a/1406799.html

19 Sept: LA Times: Mammoth gets first snow of the season after a very short summer
By Chris Erskine
Like a movie trailer of things to come, Mammoth Lakes got its first snow of the season early Thursday…
Lake Tahoe’s Squaw Valley and Mt. Rose ski resorts reported snow at high elevations earlier in the week from the same system…
The early snows make for a short summer in the Sierra. After 60 feet of snow last season and one of the snowiest Mays on record, Mammoth did not shut down skiing and snowboarding until July 28. That meant 260 straight days of lift operations…

20 Sept: Powder: Breaking: Snow is Falling on Western Slopes
Time to wax your rock skis
by Jake Stern
That’s right, the dustings in the Sierra and the Rockies this weekend was not a pumpkin-spice powdered donut, it’s the auspices of winter…
As of press time, Alta’s mid-mountain temperature is 32° and dropping. Pictures of snow-dusted meese are being plastered all over social media. Sleigh bells are ringing in this southern California office as Mammoth’s closing day was a mere seven weeks ago…
Snow fell on the Tetons just before the TGR premiere, another propitious sign of deep days to come, while Big Sky issued a winter weather advisory for this coming weekend. They could get up to 10 inches. Do you have your passes yet? Better scurry—these marketing departments are going to be marketing every single one of these first snowflakes!…

20 Sept: OutThereColorado: “Significant” snow possible in parts of Colorado this weekend
by Breanna Sneeringer
Winter is coming!
A freeze watch is currently in effect for Craig, Hayden, Meeker, and Steamboat Springs from Friday night until Saturday morning, September 20-21. Sub-freezing temperatures in the 25 to 32-degree range are expected to roll in by midnight – but what about Colorado’s chance of snow?
As fall quickly approaches, it looks like golden aspens and snow-capped peaks are on the horizon for Centennial State. A STRONG cold front could bring “significant amounts of snow” to the mountains and some valley areas in Northwest Colorado through Friday, September 20, according to a report from the National Weather Service…

21 Sept: WeatherWatchNZ: Cold snap next week in the south, temps drop over 10C, some low level snow then mild again!
As we end September and head into October we often get more and more hints of summer being around the corner – but we do get these reminders (sometimes quite abruptly!) that winter has only just technically ended – and like a powercut to a freezer the arrival of spring doesn’t mean the winter cold is instantly lost.
The cold snap on Wednesday and Thursday is short lived but it is cold for some, mainly the southern half of the South Island – and for newborn livestock it will be a tough day or two there. The cold air does make it up the North Island too – but not as significantly. It will be cold in the east of the North Island on Thursday and windy elsewhere…

• #

Dr Tim Ball – Historical Climatologist
timothyball@shaw.ca
Book ‘The Deliberate Corruption of Climate Science’.
Book “Human Caused Global Wa rming”, ‘The Biggest Deception in History’.
https://www.technocracy.news/dr-tim-ball-on-climate-lies-wrapped-in-deception-smothered-with-delusion/

BREAKING – Dr. Tim Ball wins @MichaelEMann lawsuit – Mann has to pay
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/08/22/breaking-dr-tim-ball-wins-michaelemann-lawsuit-mann-has-to-pay/

• #
David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

Thanks Dr Tim,
And best wishes.
Cheers
Dave B

• #
robert rosicka

You’re a legend DR Tim Ball and an inspiration to many .

• #
theRealUniverse

Well done on the Mann case Dr Tim.! Good work.

• #
Annie

We were so glad for you when we heard the news. Well done Dr Ball. Enjoyed meeting you briefly when you came to Melbourne a couple of years back.

• #
John

But Jo, many of them have cut the cord! My Canberra friends explain to me that they are now 100% renewable power!

If they can go 100% renewable (via power generated in Victoria and south Australia and all buffered by a coal powered grid), then surely we all can!

• #
anothermaninthemirror

Living in Canada, the mass written press propaganda had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN OUR NATIONAL PAPERS in the way of reports of the “Children’s Strike”. This is highly significant as it shows that there are more and more believers, even in the press offices that are beginning to believe that the “Emperor may have no clothes” and the scaring to death of the children of future generations is just unwarranted and counter productive to the message that the activist climate change squad are trying to project.

• #
el gordo

Thanks, no news is good news.

• #
Tristan

The Australian protesters called for the Federal Government to commit to:

No new coal, oil or gas projects
100 per cent renewable energy generation and exports by 2030
Funding for “a just transition and job creation for all fossil fuel industry workers and communities”

That doesn’t seem to imply that the protesters think fossil fuels are evil, but that they think a lack of a transition strategy is reckless.

• #
AndyG55

Absolutely no need to transition from coal and fossil fuels.

It would have zero effect on “the climate” anyway.

They aren’t the cause of what basically isn’t much happening anyway.

Its a totally pointless, in fact almost certainly disastrous, waste of time and money and effort.

• #
Tristan

But that’s not the topic right?

The protesters believe there is an issue, thus they are protesting.

The protesters don’t have to go off-grid to demonstrate some commitment to ‘coal is evil’, because the thesis of the protests is not ‘coal is evil’. It’s not some sort of gotcha to point out that protesters use FF-derived energy.

• #
AndyG55

“The protesters believe there is an issue,”

So what.!

They do want everyone to go off using of coal and all fossil fuels.

They should do it themselves to show that actually want to do more than mouth off and make ridiculous pointless demands of other people.

Yes , it very much is an issue of ignorant hypocrisy..

• #
Crowcatcher

When I was asked to tick a box on the question “Should school children go on strike FOR climate change – yes or no”

I ticked the ‘yes’ box with the added proviso that :-

they give up there smartphones and tablets;

close all their social media accounts;

insist on walking or cycling to school;

take a walk in the countryside at least once a month;

never wear throwaway fashion clothing;

never drink Coca Cola or patronise MacDonalds;

and prove that they can reduce their carbon footprints to zero by 2025

• #
Drapetomania

Soros made his money by running a hedge fund, not selling wind turbines or harvesting government subsidies. Focus on the real perps behind the scam.

Nice try.
Yes he did.
But he also funds a lot of the rioting and craziness and groups pushing socialist agendas.