JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 9.3 out of 10 based on 24 ratings

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261 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    In the last few months Jo seems to have touched on so many important topics that it’s been amazing.

    The thing that has come through all of the this churn of presentation and discussion for me has been a much clearer picture of the situation we are in.

    Thanks to those commenting its possibly true to say that the blog offers far more relevance than the print media and TV combined and the posts and comments could lead us to think that we understand the problem, so far so good.

    Now; How does the World get fixed when our governments and public institutions are so corrupted, dysfunctional, uncaring, mercenary, self centred and high on Power?

    Maybe we should ask AOC, she seems to have all of the answers.

    KK

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    • #
      Roger

      KK
      It’s all about creating left-wing socialist-marxist style governments out of the Western democracies to be run by “technocrats” whilst democracy is diminshed and steadily removed – See how the EU operates.

      Whilst the ‘plebs’ pay the price the wealthy international set with little or no national allegiance get richer and their lives are unaffected as they increase influence and control over others lives. Eco-activists are merely useful fools to them as they grow new multi-billion ‘green’ businesses out of taxpayers’ cash

      For the last 20 years I have believed, and told many people, that the battle which mankind will have to fight in the 21st century is for Democracy. In the forefront of the move to remove democracy are the eco-activists.

      350

      • #
        ivan

        Roger, if you want to see what Marxist overlords propose our future will be just read their manifesto as published by the UN in Agenda 21 and Agenda 30.

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        • #
          Roger

          Absolutely, but let’s look at the IPCC for a moment:

          Claim: a 1.5 or 2C rise in temperature since 1850 will be “Catastrophic” ! That is nothing other than Nonsensical Propaganda because:-

          1. 1850 was the tail end of the Little Ice Age, a centuries long global cold period where temps were around 2C COLDER than ‘normal’ – so earth hasn’t yet fully recovered from that abnormally cold period that brought famine, plague and devastation.

          2. Well documented earlier Warm Periods were up to 3C HOTTER than today, far from being “catastrophic” they were very benign periods during which mankind and the natural environment flourished. The Medieval, Roman and Minoan Warm periods to name just 3.

          So, with that knowledge, only an idiot or a con-man could claim that getting to within 2.5 – 2C of those benign earlier temperatures would be “catastrophic” when it is clear the complete opposite is true.

          CLAIM : The IPCC claimed that the Paris Climate Treaty was essential to restrict and stop growth in CO2 emissions to prevent future temperature rises. !!

          If so then why were reductions on CO2 emissions restricted only to the developed nations whilst China and India were respectively to Double and Treble their CO2 emissions by 2030 ?

          Collectively tnis amounted to a 50% INCREASE over current CO2 emissions ….. a fact that never featured in any IPCC or eco-activist press release or propaganda ….

          So one has to deduce that the IPCC isn’t actually concerned about global CO2 emissions per se but only about ensuring that the developed nations shift to 100% renewables and as a result destroy their economies ….

          I could go on, but it is worth mentioning that Antarctica, Ireland, much of Europe and China have seen, in the unadulterated recorded temperatures a steady cooling by as much as 1C. They also all show the Hottest periods in the last 150 years were in the 1880s and 1930s.

          Yet the IPCC state that mankind’s CO2 emissions were too low to raise temperatures until after 1950 – perhaps that’s why the earlier years hotter temperatures have been repeatedly revised downwards leaving current temps appearing to be higher?

          The Japanese, Danish, Chinese, Russian and other meteorological associations unadulterated records show this.

          220

          • #
            Roger

            The cooling of around 1C I referred to has occurred over the last 20-30 years.

            I have no doubt that this cooling, which may accelerate in the current Solar Grand Minimum, is why the IPCC launched their hysterical climate catastrophe propaganda last year.

            They know the public won’t be taken in by it for much longer.

            170

            • #
              theRealUniverse

              When the GSM Grand Solar Minimum takes hold 10-20 years? They will be screaming, its the CO2 that causes it! We have to get rid of coal and other hydrocarbon fuels! Of course that was the aim all along, nothing to do with science.

              40

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Roger, a brilliant summary.

        I try to work out: How did we get into this mess, and the answer seems to be Slowly, over the last fifty years.

        Now for the turnaround.

        KK

        160

        • #
          Dennis

          Australians were asleep around the time that the UN was established, possibly including the politicians wary of wars and hoping that the UN would unite the world.

          The leftists saw an opportunity to infiltrate the UN and use it to promote their new world order, one world government. And Australian Labor (Communist) Attorney General “Doc” Evatt presented a plan for all member nations to be encouraged to sign as many treaties as possible that would enable leftist governments to get around the laws of each nation and implement UN treaties, eg; Agenda 21-30.

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          • #
            Kinky Keith

            They’ve done very well: The League of Nations, The United Nations, The IPCCCCC and the EEU.

            Lots if skim in all that.

            KK

            110

            • #
              • #
                Bill in Oz

                Dennis I think it is remarkable how little of this is being reported in our major media
                The ABC or SBS or Fairfax or even the Murdoch press.
                Ummmm ?
                And I suspect that as Farage says, this sort of stuff will make Brexit easier.

                120

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                It says a lot that the NWO mob would use australia as a crash test dummy for its demented utopian marxist world view test run.

                Or put less politely – australians are generally clueless/apathetic politically and ignored on the international stage, so globally no one cares if we turn into the NWO utopian version of Zimbabwe ( also run by a Marxist dictator ).

                The “war on terror” has always been the trojan horse to allow enabling laws like Hitler used to be established to “save us”, and the greens & Left have been used as the repugnant storm troops to demolish the ( Christian ) moral foundations of the West. Once we are hamstrung financially and morally, then the free fall into full blow Godless Communism can truly begin……

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              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Speaking of “interesting”….welcome to glorious Soviet Republic of Victoriastan…citizen…your papers please…..

                Facial Recog for rebates? You have to be joking…….we dont live a Technocracy at all, do we? *cough*

                https://www.theage.com.au/technology/smart-energy-council-calls-for-state-to-abandon-facial-recognition-20190722-p529gg.html

                “Australia’s Smart Energy Council is calling on the Victorian government to immediately scrap the need for facial recognition to claim the solar rebate, amid a backlash from customers and installers struggling with the new technology.

                “Almost half of all attempted facial recognition identity checks failed in the first two weeks of July, after Solar Victoria began using Service Victoria’s new facial recognition system as an alternative to the traditional 100-point paper-based identity check required to prove eligibility for the rebate scheme.

                “The government should “immediately scrap” the use of facial recognition, with its failure stalling installations across the state and leaving elderly customers in tears, says John Grimes, chief executive of the Smart Energy Council.

                “This application has made the process of installing solar even harder. The industry is really struggling after being choked by Solar Homes Victoria, and this application is not helping, it’s making things worse,” Grimes says.

                “We’ve spoken to many solar installers with [stories of] customers simply unable to use the application, or of it not working. There’s also concern around who now has this data and how it will be used in the future.”
                One woman contacted by the Smart Energy Council was unable to use the facial recognition system because she is not wearing glasses in her passport photo, but without her glasses she can not follow the onscreen instructions. Another 90 year-old man was in tears because of the pressure of trying to apply for the rebate using facial recognition.

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          • #
            James Poulos

            I disagree Dennis – The UN lost funding and support at the end of the cold war.

            It needed a new ‘war’ to refill it’s coffers and become relevant.

            The new ‘war’ was Global Warming and the enemy was CO2.

            When the War Against Global Warming began to stall through lack of evidence the UN started other ‘wars’…

            … with the UN fighting multiple fronts against the same enemy – CO2 – the War Against Climate Change and the War Against Sea Level Rise.

            Just like old times when the common enemy was Communism and the fronts were Russia and China.

            110

      • #
        WXcycles

        In the forefront of the move to remove democracy are the eco-activists.

        I would have said the politician’s living example.

        30

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Watching an interview with some american actress ( I think ) who went into therapy once Trump one, I was appalled at the unhinged vacuaousness of her “intellect” if you call it that….had I not seen it with my own eyes I’d have laughed at the idea such persons exist….scary stuff…..

          60

    • #
      Another Ian

      KK

      “Maybe we should ask AOC, she seems to have all of the answers.”

      And then probably do the opposite (maybe)

      160

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Aye, A.I., definitely do the opposite of what the spoiled naïve brats children demand:

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/the-house/audio/2018704687/youth-parliament-2019-declares-climate-emergency

        “Standing in the place of the Minister for Climate Change, Youth MP Molly Doyle took a bold stance on climate change. ‘Our planet is in a state of emergency,’ she told the debating chamber of Youth MPs. ‘Climate change is killing, destroying and taking what’s important to us’”. Luke Wijohn, Chloe Swarbrick’s Youth MP, admitted “I think deep down the reason why we marched is because we’re scared”.

        “ACT Leader David Seymour responded with an ‘Oh ffs’ (for f**k’s sake) and said the Youth Parliament’s action was ‘laughably naive’. ‘They don’t appear to know what an emergency is,’ he said. ‘Climate change poses no immediate threat to human life. It’s a pity they chose to focus on something they don’t know much about.”

        “Wijohn said there were still some who needed convincing. ‘We still have climate [change] denial, which is insane’”. Sophie Handford added, “This is a question of which side of history do you want to be on?”

        History? Perhaps Sophie needs to go learn some. Insanity? is denying Earth’s many climates have changed many times: perhaps Wijohn needs to go read some geology then he and Sophie can compare notes before it’s too late!

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        • #
          Kinky Keith

          “‘Climate change is killing, destroying and taking what’s important to us’”. ”

          And it seems that applies particularly to our old friend;

          Common Sense.

          KK

          160

          • #
            Richard

            Common sense requires the ability to think clearly, something their brainwashed minds aren’t capable of. Their “educators” have done a good job.

            100

        • #
          Maptram

          And lets not forget that climate change has been a major contributor in the evolution and spread of humans and other species, so if the climate change believers think they can stop climate change, do they also think they can stop evolution.

          80

          • #
            yarpos

            They sure do. Everything must be preserved in some Goldilocks era never once thinking about all the change that occurred to get there and the impossibility of stalling that change process just because you happen to like where you are now.

            Stupidity? arrogance? I dont know

            50

        • #
          Bill in Oz

          I wonder how many Labor voters in NZ knew that they would get this type of Greenist government at the last election.

          70

        • #
          GD

          “ACT Leader David Seymour responded with an ‘Oh ffs’ (for f**k’s sake) and said the Youth Parliament’s action was ‘laughably naive’. ‘They don’t appear to know what an emergency is,’ he said. ‘Climate change poses no immediate threat to human life. It’s a pity they chose to focus on something they don’t know much about.”

          Sadly, we won’t hear Australian politicians say that, save for Tony Abbott, Barnaby Joyce and Craig Kelly.

          And if they did say that, they’d be howled down by the media, the activists and those teary, shrieking school children.

          We are no longer a lucky country, more like a very sorry country.

          60

      • #
        Another Ian

        In that vein

        “Delingpole: To Succeed Boris Just Needs To Ask Himself ‘What Wouldn’t Theresa Do?’ ”

        https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/07/21/delingpole-to-succeed-boris-just-needs-to-ask-himself-what-wouldnt-theresa-do/

        40

  • #
    Pauly

    I came across this useful website the other day when looking to explain the changes our BoM has made to the Australian temperature data set:

    http://www.waclimate.net/acorn2-nt/index.html

    The top chart at this link shows that ACORN2 has now reduced historical temperatures for the Northern Territory by 1.5 degC between 1910 and 1938. Right there is a perfect example of man-made climate change.

    300

    • #
      Ian George

      And here’s GISS (NASA).
      Darwin AP (raw data).
      https://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/show_station.cgi?id=501941200004&dt=1&ds=1

      Darwin AP (adjusted data).
      https://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/stdata_show_v3.cgi?id=501941200000&ds=5&dt=1

      You can just make out the unadjusted data in light yellow.
      They’re all doing it to protect the CC/GW meme.

      110

      • #
        el gordo

        Lowering the past to raise the future should be a criminal offence, because global cooling has begun yet NASA perpetuates the big lie. The organisation’s involvement with earthly climate will ultimately tarnish them.

        160

        • #

          waclimate.net — fantastic contribution from the great Chris Gillham – one of the BOM unofficial auditors, I’ve reported on much of his excellent work here:
          http://joannenova.com.au/tag/gillham-chris/

          Albany robbed of its coldest ever April day, BOM adjusts temp up 15 degrees C?!

          Coldest Perth September recorded in 120 years of records (must be climate change)

          Let’s play BOM Bingo, and turn every heatwave into a media scare-fest

          Two-thirds of Australias warming due to “adjustments” — according to 84 historic stations

          Mystery black-box method used to make *all new* Australian “hottest” ever records

          Cherry-picking sea level rises in Perth (a city which happens to be sinking)

          and more… at the link above.

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          • #
            peter

            Jo,
            We have been over-run with the politics of climate change recently but would you comment on a claim put to me that the troposphere hotspot, something that you have investigated in depth, has been shown to exist? The paper ERL 10 (2015) 054007, was put to me as showing it exists. I thought it only showed weak evidence of such warming. But I would appreciate your comment?

            10

            • #
              Peter C

              On the left side of the screen is a heading called “TAGS”

              One of the tags is “The Missing Hot Spot”. Jo has written 30 posts on the missing hot spot, which you can access by clicking on each one.

              50

              • #
                peter

                Thanks Peter C,
                Yes, that’s a comprehensive put down of Sherwood’s paper but the Warmist people still insist that it is proof of the hot spot.
                I continually recommend they look at this site but they tell me that Jo Nova is a ‘climate denier blogger’ and refuse to read it.

                00

          • #

            When Cli-sci is political and not yer genuine enquiry of Naychur’s reality, it becomes important to ‘disappear the Medieval Warming Period,’ it becomes important to ‘find the Troposphere Hot Spot,’ it becomes necessary to ‘change a definition, time specific, re ‘Global Warming’ to the generic ‘Climate Change, ‘ and when required, ( it’s political so fear ‘n guilt required, ) it becomes necessary to step up the drama and word-morph into ‘climate wierding.’ – It’s political, get it?

            40

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Thanks for the link to waclimate Pauly. I have been looking for that site for some time to extract the Perth temperature records. Interesting to note the temperature difference between the BOM procedure of averaging the monthly averages, as compared to obtaining the averages of each day.

      80

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Both ACORN 1 and ACORN 2 are data fiddling
      By the Bureau of Misinformation
      To ‘show’
      That global warming is happening

      80

    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      There was no warming on any long term records until CSIRO started adjusting historical data.

      2004: Updating Australia’s high-quality annual temperature dataset -

      http://www.cmar.csiro.au/e-print/internal/braganza_x2004a.pdf

      So the BoM adjusted high quality datasets before they adjusted Acorn 2, only to require Acorn 3 adjustment of the adjusted Acorn 2, based on adjusted high quality data … = hottest year. Ever.

      60

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        Thanks for that link travis
        It dates from 2003.
        But cites another homogenising effort from 1996.
        It’s being going on a long time.

        I looked through their chart of weather station records.. Very queer item : Bairnsdale is eliminated becasue it is an urban weather station. But the station is/was located out at the small aerodrome approximately 9 ks from the town center.

        Also there is no mention of Murray Bridge weather station or a number of others here in the Adelaide Hills. Lenswood & Hahndorf come to mind…

        I also noted how much of it was padded out with complex mystifying mathematical formula. No doubt intended to discourage any serious examination of what they are doing.

        50

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          Josh did a wonderful cartoon a while back titled ‘Welcome To The Adjustocene’ where a family drive past a highway sign depicting Mickey Mouse Mann ‘cooling’ the past and ‘warming’ the present – so the future is going to be y’know, like literally, I mean, like on fire!

          60

        • #
          el gordo

          Unfortunately the political culture has changed, Tony Abbott wanted an audit but Hunt and the men in black stifled him. Sussan Ley is the new Environment Minister, but she’ll sit on her hands unless the PM encourages her to seek a BoM audit.

          Craig Kelly and the ginger group have to remind Morrison that this one audit will solve all his problems.

          60

        • #
          ivan

          The crucial question. Can all the organisations that have been ‘adjusting’ the records revert what they have done since they appear to have deleted the old data?

          50

      • #
        Ian George

        Thanks for that, Travis.
        I looked up records on the original High Quality Data site many years ago and found that many w/s raw temps at odds with the HQD. Lismore was rated a ’2′ but for some reason was not included in ACORN 1 stations.
        I wonder why?

        BTW, I still have a printout for Lismore showing up to 0.7C difference between the raw yearly averages and the HQD averages, especially before 1950.

        40

  • #
    • #
      el gordo

      Nice try with sea level throughout the eons, but your primary interest is in exposing religious intolerance in China. Xi appears to be persecuting people because they believe in a deity?

      Admittedly his reeducation camps are over the top, but the idea is to ultimately turn the people (especially the children) into atheists. Do you have a problem with that?

      32

      • #
        Robert Swan

        I have a problem with that. Eternal president Xi isn’t trying to turn them into atheists, he’s trying to convert them to a a different religion. His principle commandment is “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”.

        120

        • #
          Robert Swan

          Whoops. Should have been principal. One of my own commandments is “Though shalt proofread before posting”. Now I’ll have to do ten minutes of penance at the Guardian.

          70

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          China never had any deism in all history. Around large Po sa (Buddha) statues in China there are VERY large amounts of cash, given by public visitors floating about..NO one will touch it.
          China never adopted the Bolshevik system imposed on Russia in 1917.

          20

      • #
        yarpos

        The world never batted an eyelid at Tibet, you can be pretty sure than “internal matters” will get even less focus.

        100

      • #
        el gordo

        Beijing is heavy handed, as you would expect from a fascist regime. Its not how we do things in the West, ridicule is the easiest way to destroy false gods.

        Folau is a prime example of the genre, he is dragging Christianity through the mud.

        31

        • #
          yarpos

          Christianity has been very successfully doing that for quite a while before Folau. I would suggest he is but the tiniest blip in relation to the whole kiddie fiddling fiasco, and telling Africans condoms are evil.

          40

    • #
      • #
        el gordo

        ‘As part of their curricula the young are taught at schools that believing in God is abnormal.’

        Believing in god is a fantasy, so the time once spent reading religious scriptures can now be used to fill their heads with physics and mathematics.

        ‘… teachers encourage them to report on their religious relatives.’

        That is pathetic, blatant fascist tactics.

        22

        • #
          Annie

          ‘Believing in God is a fantasy’? With all due respect, that is your opinion, which I am definitely not obliged to share. Not only do I believe in God but I also studied pure maths, applied maths and physics.

          40

          • #
            el gordo

            Show me empirical evidence for a god?

            11

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              El Gordo,

              You misunderstand God.

              You take God into your own life and refer all the things happening in your life to God.

              Nobody else needs to know what you do.

              You ask, what would God advise me to do in this situation.

              I originally thought that Issie Folau had been hard done by but a friend had heard that he was constantly pestering people he came in contact with about his “beliefs”.

              That’s personal aggrandizement, not Christianity.

              10

              • #
                el gordo

                Folau is a bible basher, but nobody in their right mind would take any of it seriously. The literal interpretation of holy scriptures has caused nothing but unhappiness, guilt, misery and war for thousands of years and you can see it in the Strait of Hormuz as we speak.

                00

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                We seem to agree, a small rewrite:

                “Folau is a bible basher and that sort of literal interpretation of holy scriptures has caused nothing but unhappiness, guilt, misery and war for thousands of years and you can see it in the Strait of Hormuz as we speak.”

                The message is that we must resist letting people hijack good ideas so that they can make a business or political weapon out of them.

                Both environmentalism and religion are good basic concepts but in the wrong hands cause the trouble you outline.

                Vigilance.

                KK

                20

              • #
                el gordo

                Sectarianism is the root cause of the problem, across most religions, and it all started with the ‘singularity’, the sun god Ra. Then passed onto the Jews, Christians and others.

                More gods are better than one.

                00

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                E G,

                “More gods are better than one”.

                Again we are in agreement but with the following proviso:

                everyone consults their own God in private and doesn’t stoop to the “my God is better than your God” type of game.

                Religion is always damaged when people ignore the true purpose and look instead to use it for power and personal advantage.

                Anyone who is consulting more than one God in their head may be dealing with schizophrenia?

                KK

                20

              • #
                el gordo

                I haven’t be professionally diagnosed, but I’ll keep it in mind.

                Charismatic religious movements become bureaucratic, where the high priests begin splitting hairs and raking in the money.

                00

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                E.G.
                That was a general comment to suggest that All of Us would be consulting our own God of common sense and decency.

                KK

                10

              • #
                el gordo

                OK Ta, the Hindus have many gods but not sure we can glean much from it. The Balinese appear to be a superstitious lot, not that there is anything wrong with that.

                Many years ago I attended a strict Catholic school and during religious class the Irish brother casually mentioned Limbo, and in a packed class of 30 I had the audacity to say it seems unfair that children should be sent to that place just because they weren’t baptised.

                His face turned pallid and although he didn’t flog me then, forever after I got six of the best for the slightest misdemeanour, so I started wagging school.

                Eventually my father took me up to the school and confronted them, needless to say I was moved to another Catholic school where I was treated more humanely.

                00

            • #
              Annie

              EG…I posted earlier but Firefox or something mucked up.
              My response: Show me the empirical evidence there is no God.

              30

              • #
                el gordo

                All religions are dependent on holy scriptures, so lets talk about the New Testament.

                Who wrote it and why?

                Also, as a mathematician you should know that there are at least half a dozen intelligent life forms in the Milky Way. Perhaps one of those aliens could have helped develop humanity, from gracile apes to spacemen?

                00

              • #
                Annie

                EG…proof?

                00

              • #
                el gordo

                Religion is faith based and you believe we are the only intelligent life in a carbon based universe. Bizarre.

                00

              • #
                Mike Jonas

                There can never be any empirical evidence that there is no god because no god cannot affect anything.

                30

    • #
  • #
    Another Ian

    Stop press!

    “Zero emissions, construction digger, runs out of power in 2 hours. Requiring it to be recharged using a diesel generator for 8 hours!”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/07/20/zero-emissions-construction-digger-runs-out-of-power-in-2-hours-requiring-it-to-be-recharged-using-a-diesel-generator-for-8-hours/

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    • #
      James

      I can think of one place where they have electric powered earth moving equipment. Coal mines. They run off a cord, which goes back to a coal powered power plant. There is a kind of beauty watching those drag lines work.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XBAReovorgs

      90

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Double Triple stuff-up of the day: “One dutchman has completed the longest journey made in an electric car from the Netherlands to Bluff. The journey took dutch traveller Weibe Wakker​ 1222 days to drive… to Bluff [bottom of the South Island] in the name of a zero carbon future. Wakker’s three year journey was to end in Sydney but he continued to New Zealand”.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/114338335/netherlands-man-completes-three-year-journey-from-houten-to-bluff#comments

      Apollo 11 took 4 days to get to the moon yet pass the dutchie took 1,222 – three years! – to get to ‘the ar$e h•le of the world‘ (according to Mick Jagger & The Stones who were there back in the ’60s) while Stuffed churnalist Damian Rowe (in)conveniently forgot to mention the plane flights, helicopter flights, container ships, coal-fired electricity and something called the Tasman Sea.

      The last word has to go to the Dutch bludger himself: “Maybe I can make it my purpose to show that sustainability was [NOT!] a viable form of transport”. Are we there yet??? And in other Commie Comedy Central (CCC) news:

      https://www.whaleoil.net.nz/2019/07/the-pms-strange-aussie-trip/

      “Once in Australia, she gave a lecture to 2000 fellow socialists on good governance. That must have seemed like a big success compared to the days when she was president of the IUSY and was urging her comrades to rebel. She then staged a media conference in front of the NZ media she brought along for the trip. Aussie media were left out in the cold”. Then her plane broke down (again) so Jackboot Jac had to catch a commoner’s commercial flight home, leaving her adoring media mob stranded in Melbourne. All for one, and one for me!

      60

  • #
    • #
      Graeme#4

      Having seen how well fast rail works in Germany, I have to disagree with the statements in the article. Worked in a small town 20 kms south of Frankfurt, and a lot of staff lived over 100 kms away but were able to regularly commute to work each day using the fast trains. I commuted often between Brussels and Frankfurt, where I found the train trip was almost as fast, door to door, compared to flying.

      110

      • #
        el gordo

        Before they call for tenders the government should consider building new cities in the bush, to avoid the slur of ‘dormitory suburbs’.

        A good example is Whitlam’s white elephant, between Bathurst and Orange, build it and they will come.

        40

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Perth has been gradually expanding its rail network, and this expansion has made a significant difference to housing suburbs now accessible by train. As a beneficiary of this rail expansion, the house price jump was significant.

          30

      • #
        yarpos

        All those people that commute from the disadvantaged dormitories in Connecticut (some of the wealthiest counties in the US) to NYC every day would be surprised to. The potential is there but in the end it will be what we make it.

        30

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        Germany is a lot flatter than Australia, especially the East Coast. I took the tilt train from the Sunshine Coast to Brisbane a couple weeks ago, about 80km. It took me just under 2 hours, and that was the express. But there was a lot of people getting on and off at towns nearer to the city.

        To build a high speed rail you need straight and flat. We just don’t have that here.

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        • #
          el gordo

          It will have to be totally new infrastructure, a lot of it underground. Once we get on the other side of the sandstone curtain its pretty flat.

          Bathurst already has a bullet train, but its a standing joke because its a three hour journey.

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    • #
      Bill in Oz

      It’s from ‘The Conversation” E G
      The ruling ideology there is always to favour the big inner city ‘elites’
      Fast rail services would divert investment from those inner city enclaves
      And thus cannot be favoured or encouraged.
      Notice how both authors are from RMIT university ?

      I gave up on the Conversation many moons ago.
      And they also blocked me as not conforming with their agenda
      Since then I’ve never been back
      Nor do I recommend any go there
      Let it die !

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      • #
        el gordo

        I recommend people go there to see what our enemy is thinking and critique them.

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        • #
          Bill in Oz

          Effective critiques lead to moderator blocks EG.

          10

          • #
            el gordo

            I don’t mean comment there, read it and bring it here for a critique.

            Do you think a bullet train network is viable?

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            • #
              Graeme#4

              How do you measure viability? Very few rail networks pay for themselves. But they do achieve huge beneficial differences to the communities they serve. For example, the Indian rail network allows folks to remain in their country villages and bring their produce to the cities for sale. This alleviates city overcrowding.

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              • #
                el gordo

                I agree, the social impact is enormously beneficial.

                Due diligence is still required, new satellite cities, Ord water on tap and Hele energy, has to be part of any mix involving fast trains.

                This is a decentralisation strategy.

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              • #
                yarpos

                Syd Melb is one of the busiest air routes in the world, if its not viable there then there is no hope. I imagine the potential for the expansion of Albury/Wodonga (if on the route would be enormous)

                However just for some context we really only managed a two lane each way road in recent years and they are still struggling to get the Pacific Highway in NSW to that standard.

                I cant help thinking a reliable, frequent , fast enough train would probably be good enough. But then I sometimes lack the “vision” thing, as I think you can build useful stuff 3 or 4 times while people talk about there visions. After all it is Australia and stuffing up is our thing e.g. Sydney Airport, Brisbane Floods, Hazelwood, SA Wind Power and blowing up working power stations and we always have the CFMEU.

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              • #
                Graeme#4

                Yarpos, the Sydney to Melbourne path must surely be the first place to use a fast train. But they must resist the political requests for lots of stops on the line. The Frankfurt Airport to Koln high-speed line achieves its short times by not stopping, despite the occasional stop at a political station in the middle of nowhere. It’s incredible to be on the adjacent autobahn, tearing along at around 250 kmh and watch the train go past and leave you in its dust.

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              • #
                Chad

                Sure, you could not have a “bullet “train that serves as a local commuter as well, but the track route, could serve for local services whilst the Fast Express service only stops at key interconnect stations.
                The Japanese manage their bullet trains this way

                10

              • #
                el gordo

                The Japanese have got it right.

                00

              • #
                AndyG55

                Another difference between Japan and Australia is our wildlife.

                Kangaroos, etc do not obey fences.

                Even cattle can get through fences occasionally, and I can only imagine the effect of hitting a cow at 300kph !!

                The track would maybe have to be raised for the whole route, but with modern fabrication methods this would not be totally impossible, and possibly easier than building it at ground level with the benefit that livestock farmers could still use the land once the line was built.

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              • #
                Chad

                I can only imagine the effect of hitting a cow at 300kph !!

                For a train…..no big deal !
                For the cow, ?.. not so good !

                00

      • #
        GD

        I gave up on the Conversation many moons ago …
        Let it die !

        Unfortunately, it’s tax-payer funded, just like their ABC.

        20

  • #
    sophocles

    I’m still digging for facts/factoids/etc on the magnetic polarity excursion(s) and all the troubles and travails they cause.

    I’m also thoroughly annoyed at, by and with myself.

    I came across some recent material which suggested that:
    – the rocks tell porkies, so dating them is very hard and not necessarily at all accurate …
    – the Laschamp excursion was therefore not when the rocks say it was (41,400 YA)
    – sediments from lake beds and swamp bottoms et al, tell bigger porkies than rocks do

    all of which fell out to:
    – the Laschamp Excursion was earlier than all the dating so far says it was, like about 46KYA
    – the Australian megafauna die off occurred at the same time as the Laschamp Excursion and all the other extinctions … (Neanderthal Man etc, etc)
    – the Lake Mungo and other excursions but not the Gothenburg Excursion (Younger Dryas?), are actually the Laschamp Excursion. In disguise …

    WTF?

    Right, all this had to be saved and the URLs to it all, and it had to be re-read later very carefully indeed.

    Therefore:
    – if I saved it, I now can’t find it.
    – What stuff? None of the search engines come back with the links I originally followed.

    Lots and lots of expletives deleted. I have rehearsed and polished my Old Norse, Latin, Ancient Greek, Anglo Saxon and Anglosized Dutch swearing/cursing so they are fully fluent. With no hestitation whatsoever. All to no avail.

    I can’t remember, either, who it was who said: If you think the Universe is out to get you … you’re right, it is!
    Whatever, when it runs over you like this … it sure hurts. I guess I’ve just got to be philosophical about this …


    Those docs are out there somewhere. Does your browser store a page history? I hope someone can help. I want to see those papers too! — Jo

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    • #
      el gordo

      While you are being philosophical, the Blake Event caught my attention.

      Do you think interglacials all end with a reversal?

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    • #
      sophocles

      Jo:
      I’m using firefox which does maintain a (good) browsing history — or it should — but it’s suffered two updates in the last three weeks: 68.0 and now 68.0.1 alone. This was after 5 updates over June: 67.0 – 67.0.4 and only 2: 66.0.4 & 66.0.5 within three days of each other in early May.

      That was two major version numbers and 7 minors, all up. The .0 versions can be like Windows where for some time one religiously avoided the .0 revision. Sometimes my browsing history is scrambled. New update.

      Okay, that doesn’t matter most of the time but of course Murphy’s Laws have to be accounted for and I’m Irish. If I forget that saucer of milk for the local leprechauns. it could be (and on occasion has been) disaster. Usually, I do all the saving I want successfully (print to pdf which also saves the URL at the top of the first page) but occasionally, it’s like a turd ball with a lit stick of dynamite deeply embedded. Especially when I really want to save something.

      I discovered some of this in the second half of June and some more over the first two weeks of this month. Of course it all triggered my interest Somewhere between all those updates,

      For a while, I was finding very little then I found a bunch of stuff and was so fascinated by it, I didn’t go to bed for over 36hrs —ages … and this may be when it all went wrong. If this is so, then it was self-inflicted —- hence the polishing of my expletives.

      So if people do searches in fields of their interest and come across a snippet of this, please pass it on.
      In the meantime, I’ll keep hunting — it’s got to be out there somewhere!

      el gordo: @ # 6.1
      Could do, but haven’t come across any specified connection. Big-Rock-from-Space™ is alleged to cause them. I’ve checked out the Arizona Crater; 50,000 YA, no noticeable —- rather: no attributed Climate Change and some years before the Aus megafauna extinction (c. 46,000YA). Laschamp still at 41,400 YA, Lake Toba at 75,000 YA … busy time back then …

      I have this on the Blake Event which has a memorable line within:
      there are continuing arguments about their space/time pattern of field variability :-)

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Im waiting for the next ‘mega’ event. Just so it teaches these idiots a big lesson. No Im not proposing we get wiped out, but I know most if not all geologists just dont get too worried about what can happen..really.

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘ … there are continuing arguments about their space/time pattern of field variability.’

        It appears to be an inexact science, I’ll keep looking.

        10

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      sophocles:

      This might get you started again;
      http://euanmearns.com/the-laschamp-event-and-earths-wandering-magnetic-field/

      The usual solid article with comments (including a starting one from a former astronaut) and references.
      I don’t know about the extinction of the megafauna, it may have happened in Australia, but many were around until near the time of the Younger Dryas**, even after for some.

      **Not the Cave Hyena nor Cave Bear to my recollection, which may have died out around that time. Also the aborigines didn’t have memories or leave paintings of Megalania as you would expect if they were here about the time they died out (possibly 50,000 y.a. or thereabouts as also Diprotodon. A bit hard not to have noticed a 7 metre, 600kg version of the Komodo dragon.

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        This is very telling comment from an MIT researcher..from that article.
        “It seems quite likely that we will lose the protection of the geomagnetic field within decades to perhaps a century, exposing satellites, communication systems and terrestrial power grids to serious damage, and requiring much heavier shielding for astronauts in Earth orbit (and perhaps for people at high latitudes, such as Scotland). Moreover, if the field weakens substantially while we are still in the coming Grand Solar Minimum, the climate may become much colder than the Little Ice Age.”
        My bold.

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  • #
    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

    Morning all,
    About a week ago I posted here that

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    • #
      yarpos

      …..OMG! Dave has been abducted!

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      • #
        Annie

        Search Area 51!

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      • #
      • #
        beowulf

        Hey don’t laugh. Dave’s probably being probed as we speak. That happened to me the last two times I was abducted by aliens. I don’t want to go into details with the ladies present, but let’s just say I haven’t been able to ride a bike for 6 weeks.

        A big thank you to commenter CopThis for the sage medical advice, but the peanut butter and vegemite dressing doesn’t seem to be helping. Perhaps I shouldn’t have used crunchy peanut butter. Looks like it’s back to the good old treacle and tuna poultice. Very soothing.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      David if you’re being held against your will blink twice…….not going to work….ok…do a comment but in it put the words Acorn2, UN, 2030, BOM and Ponzi…..ah poop……..ok……do the comment and include the phrases,

      “The red fox trots quietly at midnight”, “What’s the best way to the train station?”, to be followed by, “You could walk, but it’s about ten blocks.”, and finally, “That’s fine, I could use the exercise.”

      Also don’t panic, and if Stockholm Syndrome occurs don’t promise or do things you might regret, surviving abduction is one thing but becoming a famous internet meme is another hell.

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Afternoon all,
      No, not abducted, or even gagged. Just stuffed up. Accidentally hit the “Post Comment” button instead of the “Cancel” when I had to abandon my session this morning. Thanks for your concern. I actually went out for coffee and lunch…
      But continuing my original message..
      About a week ago I posted here that I had sent a letter to “The Land” and hoped to have it published last Thursday. Didn’t happen, so some personal disappointment, but there is good news. The Land did publish two letters of interest, one warmist and one sceptical, with about equal column lengths.
      My new draft letter is in response to the former and includes the idea I sent last week.
      Will report on my success next week, and will try to hit the right buttons then.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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  • #

    My good lady wife Barbara is still in hospital, now 16 days and still most probably a week to ten days more. Hopefully, (please let it be hopefully) the worst is behind her now, and it’s a matter of recovery and getting her strength back and dissipating the fluid build up, and her age is not assisting her here. Until you actually see the ‘nursing’ process is full blown action, you have no real appreciation of the work they do, and how they go about it, because it is magnificent to see the caring manner all of them go about their work, and I fully understand it is not an easy process, and this is no simple job. I commute every day and sit with her for around seven hours, so it’s long days for me, not that I mind, as I just want to see her better.

    From a detached point of view, that nursing process has been made easier by the advantages of modern technology, so I would like to show you just one of them, and from my electrical power consumption point of view, imagine if you will the power consumption of a hospital, as I have mentioned previously, and how it needs to be in place all the time, and the immense amounts of power required on an ABSOLUTE basis.

    Each ward has access to what are referred to as Nurses WOW’s, and these are Workstations On Wheels, and they are amazing pieces of equipment.

    This first link here shows the basic platform, and from that site of the Ergotron Company, this is one of around sixty or so of these platforms, (some just with added extras) and this is the actual one in use at this hospital.

    Under the main image are two further images as well. Looking at that main image, and keeping in mind this is just the basic platform, all the rest are add-ons. That flat area can go up and down on the shaft so it can be set at any height from standing to sitting down in front of it.

    At the top of the shaft and behind it is a code reading scanning device, and each patient, on admission, is given a wrist band with a three circle code. (those roundish bar code thingies.) The nurse logs in with her own card attached to her waist, along with her ID badge, on a reader at the front of the upper flat ‘table’, and then uses that scanner to log the patient in. That lower table keyboard table you see on the image, slides in and out as well.

    The add-ons (sourced from other places, as this Company only provides the platform itself) are the following items: A large screen Monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Under that top flat panel is a high end laptop with the medical program showing everything pertaining to each patient. Each platform has its own Laptop.

    To run all of this requires a power supply, also from another Company, Scott Clark, and I have found a short video for this exact power supply shown at this link. (and this is a short video of around two minutes) The power supply can be operated from most worldwide electrical supplies, and ours here in Australia is 230Volt 50Hz. This power supply is attached to the rear of that WOW shaft so it does not affect the raising and lowering of the table.

    It’s a 175 Watt system which supplies battery charging power, and the whole unit can be run from mains supply, but in every case, they operate solely from the battery and the only time they are plugged in is for that battery recharging.

    The battery itself is a Lithium Ion (LifePoly) battery around the size of two house bricks. The battery can supply the unit for around three hours of constant supply, enough for the nurses to ‘do their rounds’ of each patient on the ward, with four patients per ward indicative of most wards. The battery can be totally recharged from flat in around three hours, but I have never seen one more than half ‘depleted’ of charge. When plugged in they will draw approximately 10Amps from the Mains supply. The battery is a 28AmpHour battery, with a charge indicator showing how much charge is left in the battery.

    Each ward has two of these WOW’s, and they are absolutely everywhere. I have seen anything up to thirty of them in just the three wards where Barbara has been in. They can be plugged into dedicated (red coloured) outlets in the wide corridors, or in a separate room for charging them, and I have seen anything up to ten of them in that charging room.

    These are the nursing WOW’s and there are also Doctor WOW’s as well, and these just have a separate program in the Laptop, some with added drawers attached to the shaft Under the tables.

    Now, imagine the added power consumption just for these WOW’s, and then understand how much power a hospital must really consume, and this is just a medium sized hospital, and this is also just three wards I have visited.

    Also, it’s easy to see where the State Health Budget goes, as each platform0($2000 just for this standard platform) the high end Laptop, and the power supply, and my ballpark guess is around six grand all up, probably more, and there would be hundreds of them across just this hospital.

    You marvel when you ‘see’ technology in action, and just be thankful that a technological ‘aid’ like this makes things just that little bit easier at such a trying time.

    Tony.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      My best wishes for your wife’s recovery.

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      David Maddison

      I wish her a speedy recovery, Tony.

      140

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      I too send best wishes Tony
      For your wife’s recovery and good health.
      It’s been cold in the Southern parts of Qld recently
      And many Qld houses are not built
      To stay warm in cold times
      So maybe being in a hospital
      Is a better place than at home for many Qld folk recently.

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    • #
      Peter C

      Thanks Tony,

      All the best to your wife, who has been very ill to require such a long hospital stay.

      You have been there a lot and have seen the hospital processes close up.

      Your comments made me think about the Hospital Emergency Generators. They are normally hidden away somewhere and I have only noticed them occasionally. I think they might struggle to keep the lights on in most of the hospital.

      You might ask about the hospital emergency power supply, although it could be difficult to get answers. The medical staff probably don’t know.
      I met a chap during the week who might know something.

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    • #

      Efficient energy saves lives. Best wishes for your wife’s speedy recovery, Tony.

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      Annie

      All the best to you and your wife Tony. Sorry to hear that it’s been long drawn out.
      Fascinating to read about the WOWs. I wish I’d looked a bit harder when we visited a family member in hospital in Melbourne a couple of days ago. Excellent treatment, brilliant surgery and nursing care and now the recovery period to pay attention to properly for best results.

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    • #
      sophocles

      Hang in there, Tony
      your girl comes first and we know it.
      You’ve all our best wishes for a positive outcome

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Yes best wishes Tony.
      sarc on / On hospital power, o just run the whole thing on one of those windy whatsits…/sarc

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      • #
        Peter C

        On hospital power, o just run the whole thing on one of those windy whatsits

        Yes RU. I put that up because I think that Hospital Emergency Power supplies can barely supply the active Operating theatres and the Intensive Care Unit.

        In a power blackout all the rest of the Hospital will likely GO DOWN, including all the Work Stations on Wheels (WOW). The Nurses have got used to WOW so there is no backup.
        They will try to make notes on pieces of paper but the system will be F..ed. Patients might as well go home. if they can.

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          ‘They will try to make notes on pieces of paper ‘
          I would imagine the recently trained nurses probably cant do anything manually on paper. No training on that. (An ex gf of mine was a nursing tutor, but that was back in those days..)

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      • #

        Thank you to all of you. It’s a slow process, but she is improving with each (long) passing day.

        Tony.

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      Gee aye

      Tony, I hope things go well for you both

      41

  • #
    Hatrack

    First item on Speers this morning featured Karen Andrews, Federal Minister for Industry, Science and Technology.

    I found it ironic that she wants Australia to participate in America’s re-vitalised space program, while at the same time we are trying to re-vitalise our electricity network with technology dating back to the 6th century!

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    • #
      el gordo

      It will need a small Hele coal fired power station to operate.

      “NASA’s [Goddard Space Flight Centre] plans to award a contract to Equatorial Launch Australia (ELA) to provide services to NASA for a temporary southern hemisphere launch site for conducting scientific investigations,” the US Government’s Federal Business Opportunities website stated.’

      ABC

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Science, unsettled …

    Already some international scholars are beginning to realize the existence of the site may necessitate revisions to their work, he said.

    “Thousands of years before the construction of the pyramids, what we see in the neolithic period is that more and more populations turn to live in a permanent settlement,” said Vardi.

    A ‘game changer’: Vast, developed 9,000-year-old settlement found near Jerusalem

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/vast-and-developed-9000-year-old-settlement-uncovered-near-jerusalem/

    Remains of Neolithic site near Motza, the largest ever discovered in Israel, show mix of agriculture, hunting, animal husbandry — a society at its peak, say archaeologists -

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  • #
    David Maddison

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/07/20/zero-emissions-construction-digger-runs-out-of-power-in-2-hours-requiring-it-to-be-recharged-using-a-diesel-generator-for-8-hours/

    Zero emissions, construction digger, runs out of power in 2 hours. Requiring it to be recharged using a diesel generator for 8 hours!

    (See link for video.)

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Brown coal to hydrogen is now back on the agenda with a taxpayer contribution of only $50 million from Victoriastan and $50 million from the Feds plus presumably Japanese taxpayers.

    Here is a critical article from 8 months ago:
    https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/coal-to-hydrogen/amp/

    As of a few days ago, work has begun on the plant.
    https://amp.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/hydrogen-plant-to-breathe-new-life-into-coal-industry/news-story/ce01e7e18211ea4deba585b60ee98e4f

    Cost of hydrogen at this pilot plant is a mere $165,000 per kg (not a typo, $165,000 per kg). This needs looking into.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Latest from Tony Heller on extreme fr@ud at the Union of Concerned Scientists.

    https://youtu.be/2nerGGJGGms

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    • #
      Serp

      Thanks. Just yesterday I recommended a person visit Tony Heller’s site as a way to be gently introduced to the full debunk of IPCC chicanery.

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  • #
    Graeme#4

    Great article by Bjorn Lomborg in this weekend’s The Australian, pointing out once again that regardless of what folks believe with the current warming, the money being wasted on trying to stop the warming would be far better spent on other more important issues that affect our planet.

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  • #
    Graeme#4

    And just a general question for the folks here: Has the BOM recently adopted a new computing system for their weather forecasting?

    30

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    CO2.

    UN endorsed!

    UN stamped as non-toxic #2187.

    https://nationalsafetysigns.com.au/safety-signs/carbon-dioxide-hazchem-un2187-sign-h1567/

    So while they tax us they also know they lie …

    Merkel favours carbon (sic) pricing to meet environmental targets

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-merkel-environment/merkel-favors-carbon-pricing-to-meet-environmental-targets-idUSKCN1UE0YE

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    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Always read the fine print:

      “BERLIN (Reuters) – Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Friday she flavored carbon prices to incentivize savings in climate-damaging emissions…”

      Reuters – news you can turst!

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      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        It might be truer than you know… That she flavoured carbon prices. (it’s not a tax after all)

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        • #
          Greg in NZ

          Angela’s learned from our Cindy: No New Taxes – just a little excise here and a wee levy there and 15% GST on top of that and oh! a carbon fee here and a small donation there… let’s call it Good Governance or Wellbeing or Tyranny boiling frogs Kiwis slowly.

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            Sambar

            Hang in there Greg, only 16 months to go at the outside. There may be a change in the wind, provided of course, that you don’t have to rely on the New Zealand First Party to um, err, put a certain politician first rather than the good of Aotearoa. I believe that your prime ministers recent visit to Australia did NOT enchance relations between our countries.

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  • #
    pat

    open access…read all:

    19 Jul: TheAustralian: Exclusive: Top scientists lash ‘superficial’ ABC over Four Corners’ Murray-Darling report
    by Emily Ritchie
    “Reports like this amplify superficial and sensationalist ­stories running in the media since the critical reporting of the SA Royal Commission into the ­Murray-Darling Basin,” says the open letter, issued today by a group of hydrologists and ecologists with ties to universities across the country.
    “These stories have invoked the name of science to justify claims of the plan’s failures, lending an air of credibility to calls by various interests to ‘pause the plan’ or, worse, scrap it altogether and conduct a witch hunt to embarrass public officials involved in the water reforms.”
    Rob Vertessy, a hydrologist, former chief executive of the ­Bureau of Meteorology and a co-author of the letter, said it stemmed from a “growing frustration” among experts that there was a “widening gap between the broader public perception of the basin and what is actually happenin­g on the ground”…
    An ABC spokesman said last night that the program had drawn on “a wide cross-section of people with knowledge and experience of the operation of the water subsid­y scheme”…

    The letter, published today by the Melbourne School of Engineering at the University of Melbour­ne, expresses concerns that, through such negative report­ing, the basin plan and the institutions implementing it are being “unfairly maligned”, which is leading to an erosion of public support for the initiative…

    The episode was also criticised by the ABC’s Media Watch, with host Paul Barry saying: “Four Corners … should not ignore inconveni­ent evidence or fail to present one side of the argument, and we reckon it did.”
    The university disclosed that many of the experts who contributed to the letter have been paid by one or more basin governments for participation in advisory committees and/or received research grants from one or more basin governments.
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/top-scientists-lash-superficial-abc-over-four-corners-murraydarling-report/news-story/5be4365525296fb4db0ee395a7a22e2c

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      Bill in Oz

      It’s been paywalled Pat.

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      • #
        pat

        shame. here’s some more:

        “These stories have invoked the name of science to justify claims of the plan’s failures, lending an air of credibility to calls by various interests to ‘pause the plan’ or, worse, scrap it altogether and conduct a witch hunt to embarrass public officials involved in the water reforms.”
        Rob Vertessy, a hydrologist, former chief executive of the ­Bureau of Meteorology and a co-author of the letter, said it stemmed from a “growing frustration” among experts that there was a “widening gap between the broader public perception of the basin and what is actually happenin­g on the ground”.

        “Especially when we see a prestigious media platform like Four Corners in a sense aid and abet that rather dismal discourse, we felt frustrated and thought maybe it’s time we should speak up and moderate the debate a bit,” Professor Vertessy said.
        “We challenge the assertion the basin plan is a failure and, even worse, the suggestion it’s a farce. The Four Corners program, along with other media coverage on the topic, has been oversimplified and superficial with blatant inaccuracies.”…

        “Four Corners argued that they consulted ‘experts at the coalface of water management’ (for the Cash Splash episode),” the letter reads. “We are such a group. Our collective skills are in hydrologic analysis, riverine ecology, irrigatio­n engineering, water quality, climate change and socio­-economics, crafted through many years of working in the Murray-Darling Basin and elsewhere. It troubles us that some in the community imagine that most scientists regard the basin plan as a mess.
        “We worry that negative populist rhetoric may hold sway and derail the basin water reform process entirely.”

        Vertessy: “The idea these populists have that the basin can become some sort of positive oasis is just ­ridiculous.
        “ We think the basin plan is a pretty sensible middle ground taking us all forward.
        “Rather than trying to trash the plan, let’s focus on thinking it through properly and trying to improve on what we have.”
        The open letter delves into three “myths” the experts believe have been propagated by media reporting on the basin plan…

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      pat

      full transcript/video:

      VIDEO: 6min17sec: 15 Jul: ABC Media Watch: Paul Barry: Four Corners’ water splash
      Agricultural groups are furious with Four Corners’ coverage of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan, claiming it was misleading and biased.
      TRANSCRIPT
      Along with the National Farmers Federation, whose president Fiona Simson told Media Watch:
      FIONA SIMSON: We were incredibly disappointed when we first saw the show and I think even more disappointed now as we’re going through it line by line … It was totally one sided and misleading, when you know the details of the efficiency program that they were talking about, as we do. I think what then really rubbed salt into the wound was watching the Four Corners journos on Twitter doubling down and trying to justify it.
      - Phone interview, 12 July, 2019…

      Yet, by our count, Four Corners had 12 people criticising the scheme and just one defending it. Plus, that key fact, about how much water has supposedly been saved, went missing.
      We asked Four Corners why and received a 10-page reply. Rejecting claims that the program was one sided, it said it had a wide range of interviewees and…

      Four Corners is absolutely right to question whether the Murray-Darling Basin Plan is working and taxpayers’ money is being well spent. But it should not ignore inconvenient evidence or fail to present one side of the argument.
      And we reckon it did.
      https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/four-corners/11310976

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    • #
      yarpos

      Maybe those voicing their frustrations about reporting on their project might consider that communicating progress and achievements and issues is a vital part of any project.

      If you dont do it, or dont do it effectively, then someone will do it for you. Almost inevitably it wont be correct because they arent close to the project and dont have the whole picture.

      Bottom line: get off your ar$e and tell the story yourself if the picture “on the ground” is so rosey.

      10

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Hottest carbon (sic) July. Ever?

    Frost reaches all the way up to the Tropic of Capricorn:

    http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/awap/temp/index.jsp?colour=colour&time=latest&step=0&map=minextrm%2Flow&period=daily&area=nat

    Temperature – an indicator of frost
    Temperature is measured by standard instruments which are located in a shelter (Stevenson screen) at a height of approximately 1.2 m above the ground.
    These observations are then used to approximate the conditions at surface level.
    An observed temperature of 2.2°C at screen level indicates that the temperature at the surface is approaching 0°C.

    Factors that affect frost formation
    Frost formation is affected by a series of factors including cloud coverage, humidity, surface winds, topography and location.
    In Australia, frost is more likely to form under a clear sky, with low humidity and light surface winds.
    Cloud cover: Clear skies favour the escape of radiation (heat) from the earths surface to space.
    Clouds reflect the outgoing radiation, slowing the cooling at the surface.
    Crop covers and tree wraps can be used to manage the risk of frost by preventing the loss of heat during the night.”

    http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/map/frost/what-is-frost.shtml

    20

  • #
    pat

    read all:

    21 Jul: BrisbaneTimes: ‘Best chance’: Scientists, advocates divided over Murray-Darling future
    By Peter Hannam
    Fears that the plan – backed by the Morrison government and the basin states of NSW, Queensland, Victoria and the ACT – could collapse from “unfair” criticism prompted almost two dozen researchers to issue a letter calling for its retention (LINK) on Friday.

    “We worry that negative populist rhetoric may hold sway and derail the basin water reform process entirely,” the letter stated, referring in particular to ABC’s recent Four Corners report…

    NSW’s Deputy Premier and Nationals leader John Barilaro has also intensified his criticism of the plan, this week calling for a review of water entitlements for South Australia given communities in his state are running out of water amid record low inflows and new “worst conditions” in some valleys.
    Such comments have angered some federal counterparts, with one insider calling them “a lot of bluster” and unhelpful given the prospect for a period of relative political calm. Elections in key states of NSW, Victoria and the Commonwealth aren’t due again for three or more years.

    David Littleproud, the Water Minister, said the Plan enjoyed the “solid support” of the National Farmers Federation, Landcare, the National Irrigators Council, and the Murray Basin Councils, among others.
    “The facts speak for themselves – the Commonwealth Environmental Water Holder has secured around 2100 gigalitres because of the Plan,” he said…
    https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/sustainability/best-chance-scientists-advocates-divided-over-murray-darling-future-20190720-p5291y.html

    10

  • #
    pat

    finally accepting Johnson is likely to win; now telling him what to do – spend more money on CAGW:

    behind paywall:

    20 Jul: UK Telegraph: Here’s what Boris Johnson needs to do about energy
    By Andy Critchlow (S&P Global Platts)
    Energy policy will probably be the last thing on Boris Johnson’s mind if he becomes the next prime minister. Navigating a successful Brexit will be his top priority and this means devising an economic plan for future generations. A new energy policy should be at the heart of his vision for Britain outside Europe, ***but it is going to be expensive.

    One of his first decisions after July 23 could be to accept the recommendations of a long-awaited government White Paper aimed at overhauling the energy industry. The document – likely to outline root-and-branch reforms to new nuclear funding and flesh out green energy policies empowering consumers – was due to be published ahead of the summer recess of Parliament. Expectations for what will actually be contained in the White Paper are high.

    Carolyn Fairbairn, director general of the Confederation of British Industry, wrote to Business Secretary Greg Clark last month urging him to ensure it meets the long-term needs of cleaning up the environment, while keeping the lights on. It is unclear if both objectives are even possible…
    Without a long-term increase in funding, further initiatives to reduce industrial emissions could flounder…
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/07/19/boris-johnson-needs-do-energy/

    10

  • #
    RickWill

    What you need to know about global climate – water and its distribution in its various phases on and above Earth make the globe habitable for carbon based life forms:
    1. Tropical ocean waters are net absorbers of energy from the sun and release of energy to the universe.
    2. Temperate and polar ocean water are net losers of energy coming in from the sun and out to the universe.
    http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/images/rad_balance_ERBE_1987.jpg
    https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/global-maps/CERES_NETFLUX_M
    3. Ocean water has an immense capacity to store energy while moving air above oceans and moving water in the oceans transfer ocean heat from low latitudes to high latitudes.
    4. Water vapour clouds above the oceans reflect solar energy to reduce ocean energy input.
    https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/global-maps/MODAL2_M_CLD_FR
    5. Water based sea ice insulates polar oceans to reduce heat loss.
    6. Rapid increase in water vapour to form dense clouds over ocean water warmer than 25C limits tropical ocean temperature to slightly above 30C.
    7. Ocean surface water can never be colder than -2C.
    https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/global-maps/MYD28M
    8. The area average ocean surface temperature is 16C – near the middle of the two possible extremes.
    9. Local weather and local climate are affected by ocean currents and the interconnectedness of the oceans. Currents through Drakes Passage and Bering Strait are present constraints for the transfer of ocean heat between the oceans.
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/04/land-bridge-caused-wild-temperature-swings
    (The following link is a download of a paper covering Drakes Passage)
    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Zhongshi_Zhang/publication/253911956_Did_the_opening_of_the_Drake_Passage_play_a_significant_role_in_Cenozoic_cooling/links/0deec52a5c5a1b86d7000000/Did-the-opening-of-the-Drake-Passage-play-a-significant-role-in-Cenozoic-cooling.pdf

    Without the abundance and distribution of surface water, Earth would be a barren rock with an area averaged global temperate around -75C; similar to the moon with extremes of 127C to -173C. The land adjacent to the Dead Sea at 413m below sea level and Antarctica with average elevation above sea level of 2500m provide insights into what Earth would be like without surface water and its interconnectedness.

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Without the abundance and distribution of surface water, Earth would be a barren rock……….that depends on whether there is an atmosphere or not.
      With air and no water probably like something like Venus without the pressure and lower temp.

      40

      • #
        RickWill

        The H2O vapour would rise then ultimately split leaving the H+ to disappear to the universe. H2O solid would form at the poles. Earth’s existing atmosphere has negligible thermal capacity compared with the oceans so the temperature range will be much greater. The Sahara provides a glimpse of the wide temperature variation. Extend the Sahara to the entire globe to meet mountains of ice at the poles.

        30

    • #
      el gordo

      The Southern Ocean geothermal heat is being discussed at Climate Etc.

      https://judithcurry.com/2019/07/21/geothermal-ocean-warming-discussion-thread/#more-25017

      Judith, Roy Spencer, Willis and Ellison all have a say in comments. This is going to be fun.

      20

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        An interesting and important link EG
        The climate scientists are all focussed on the air above us
        Which they think determines the climate
        Never mind that almost all their measurements
        Are for the 28% of the planet which is land !
        And ignore almost totally the other 72% which is ocean and seas.
        And in those oceans and seas is where the Earth’s tectonic heat
        Emerges most.
        No wonder almost all Geologists think ‘climate science’ is bunkum.
        A theory base on studying the temperatures of bits of the planet above sea level
        And then needing to be ‘mathematically’
        fiddled and farted around with
        To make it all ‘work”
        Nothing but bull sh#t.

        30

      • #
        glen Michel

        It is part of the dynamic obviously and a significant contributor to OHC. Another part of Earth’s system that needs more attention.There is alot going on down there!

        10

  • #
    Geoff Sherrington

    Pauly at #2 above re BOM adjustments.
    The waclimate blog he mentions is run by Chris Gilgamesh, who has spent countless, objective hours on analysis of BOM temperature adjustments. It is top quality work. You will not be misled by it, because it takes BOM data and sorts it into bins for comparison. Chris does not adjust the BOM data, he sorts and packages it in ways that show its strengths and weaknesses.
    Unlike the objective Chris, I the subjective Geoff now surmises that the BOM Acorn series 2 adjustments might have taken the heat away from the debate.
    The reason for this? The BOM version 2 is so outlandish that further discussion or protest seems pointless. You cannot have a rewarding debate with a party that has shown itself capable of blatant scientific abuse, by replacement of measured numbers with imaginary ones that fit a pattern capable of the comment that they seem to be bent to conform with an ideology.
    Sorry to be so dark about this. I have just about ceased my own analyses of BOM temperatures because they have no interest in giving me meaningful answers to objective questions and because they demonstrate little understanding of how correct science should be done. Instead. they use releases like Acorn 2 to show how poor and dream like their science can be.
    The remaining tactic seems to be to continue to pressure the Federal Govt for a proper, unfitted investigation into the BOM and its demonstrated deficiencies. Geoff S

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  • #
    Geoff Sherrington

    Correction. Chris GILHAM.
    Artificial intelligence purloined my accurate typing fingers.
    Geoff S

    100

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    19 Jul: UK Telegraph: Inside Extinction Rebellion – is the movement about to unravel?
    By Eleanor Steafel
    It would be difficult to dismiss the gravity of the climate emergency XR wish to avert, but their tactics walk a precarious line between motivation and intimidation, irritating as many people as they inspire. Par for the course, some might say, with activism of any kind – but their future relies on keeping this balance in check, and the cracks are beginning to show.
    Increasingly, the real controversy which threatens the movement appears to comes from within. Rumours of infighting and bullying among certain factions are rife on social media – signs that the movement is being manipulated by individuals with their own fundamentalist agendas, while reports of members distancing themselves over concerns about some of their more disruptive tactics are on the rise. Are the wheels about to come off?…
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/19/inside-extinction-rebellion-unravel/

    google translation:

    19 Jul: LeMondeFrance: Justice bars Greenpeace from approaching nuclear waste convoys
    The Paris tribunal de grande instance has ruled in favor of two Orano subsidiaries (formerly Areva) and banned NGO activists from interfering with transport operations…
    by Nathan Mann
    https://www.lemonde.fr/planete/article/2019/07/19/la-justice-interdit-a-greenpeace-de-s-approcher-des-convois-de-dechets-nucleaires_5491343_3244.html

    60

    • #
      yarpos

      I wonder if there is any way we could convince the XR people to super glue themselves to each other? I think it would be best for everyone.

      60

      • #
        yarpos

        I see the 20 year old XR drop kick in Brisbane has been outed as living in mummy and daddys 5 bedroom mansion on the Sunshine Coast, while protesting the imagined climate emergency.

        Just tidy your room and get back to school, you dill.

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  • #
  • #
  • #
    DonS

    Hi Jo

    I saw in the media last week reports of the Ebola outbreak in the Congo. Not long after the UN declared an Ebola emergency in Congo. Nothing like a bit of media coverage to get things moving. Only took them 2 years and about 1600 dead but they get there in the end. How long before the hysteria begins?

    I seem to recall during the last outbreak that Obama spent a lot of money finding a vaccine for Ebola. What happened with that? It came along towards the end of the outbreak so I’m not sure if it was really tested as effective in the field. They don’t seem to be using it in this Congo outbreak so maybe it was no good or this strain is too different for its use.

    Anyone know what happened with the vaccine?

    41

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    An entertaining(?) and very interesting twitter thread:

    Let’s talk about peeing in space.

    “When the Mercury program was proposed, doctors were worried that people would not be able to urinate or even swallow without the aid of gravity.

    And yet, they still made plans to send a man into space.

    When Alan Shepherd became the first American man to go into space, it was scheduled to be a fifteen-minute mission.

    Up.

    Hello space!

    Back down.

    They made no plans for peeing.

    Launchpad delays meant that Shepherd hit a point where he needed to go. Badly.

    He asked Mission Control for permission to go in his suit. After consultation with flight surgeons & suit technicians, they gave him permission to do so.

    So he wet himself & still went into space.

    They had to tape a bag to their ass to poop.

    That worked well for Gemini and Mercury. And by well, I mean there was still urine in the capsule and it stank of feces.

    Apollo needed a different solution.”

    Read on if you want …

    https://twitter.com/MaryRobinette/status/1152277172515741696

    40

  • #
    Robber

    A big weekend for wind in SA, yesterday delivering an average of 1275 MW (nameplate 2142 MW) while SA average demand on the grid was 1040 MW. Gas was constrained to 290 MW, the minimum required to maintain grid stability, with lots of surplus generation sent to Vic. In addition rooftop solar contributed a peak of 600 MW, large solar 200 MW, so demand on the grid dropped to 670 MW around midday. Average price for the 24 hours was just over $40/MWhr. Similar story continues today with average price $30/MWhr.
    With strong winds also across Vic, low prices have extended across the entire grid, currently under $10 at 2pm.
    Only problem: when the wind stops blowing, and peak evening weekday demand occurs, SA must rely on 3,200 MW of gas and diesel generators.
    Average wholesale price for Vic/SA last 12 months $110/MWhr, Qld $80, NSW $90.

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    • #
      Chad

      …….aaannnd.. that lasted until 6:30 pm when the sun went to bed,, the wind died, and output slumped back down to 250MW !

      60

      • #
        Chad

        …about the same time , Victoria opened the taps on all its Hydro, and fired up its (otherwise idle ) Gas back up generators ….

        40

      • #
        Robber

        Exactly Chad. To complete the story of Sunday’s SA electricity supply/demand (see #29):
        From 1063 MW of wind at 3pm, by 6pm that had dropped to 284 MW, just at the time of peak demand.
        Gas, that had been at 260 MW all day (min required to maintain system stability), rose to 936 MW for the evening peak, while demand peaked at 1692 MW. That meant that in just a few hours SA swung from exporting up to 600 MW to Vic to importing about the same amount.
        Not surprisingly, SA prices went from below $30/MWhr to a peak of $217/MWhr.
        Further evidence that you can’t rely on wind and solar to deliver electricity when needed. 100% backup of reliable coal/gas/hydro must be maintained despite further investments in the unreliables.
        After the evening peak demand with low wind supply, later in the evening as demand dropped, wind returned to a seemingly constrained 1285 MW throughout the night.
        This is not the recommended cost effective way of running an essential service with massive over investment.

        50

    • #
      RickWill

      The clear take away from this is that SA desperately needs a higher capacity link to NSW so the wind generators are no longer stability constrained. That will ensure the demise of Liddell and enable the remaining coal generators to keep running near rated capacity; a win for wind and coal while prices in NSW head north at pace exceeding the rate of price increases in SA and VIC following the closure of Hazelwood.

      After Liddell closes, NSW will be vying for the most expensive electricity on the planet against VIC and SA. The solid link between QLD and NSW should also force prices higher in QLD with the exception of lunchtime power. Lunchtime power in QLD on Sunday was $36/MWh. By end of of August there should be negative price at Sunday lunchtime unless the solar subsidy farmers voluntarily curtail output to avoid paying to send out power.

      20

  • #
    Ross

    Not sure this has been “highlighted” on here before, but these geologists in the UK have had enough and want a different message sent out there.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/06/15/fellows-of-the-royal-geological-society-pushback-over-climate-position/

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Fact. Not many geologists are warmistas. For obvious reasons they somewhat know the truth about the geological history of the place we live in.

      70

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        “This alone should make the authors of the GSL statements cautious about their very confident acceptance that CO2 alone has driven temperature and climate since 1900.The IPCC AR documents address some of the uncertainties,..”
        1. CO2 doesnt drive ANYTHING!
        2. There are NO uncertainties regarding anything to do with CO2 and climate. It has been refuted.

        60

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thank for that Ross,
      Did the requested meeting ever happen, do you know?
      Cheers
      Dave B

      20

  • #
    pat

    back to some Community Radio – because these stations receive taxpayer money…pay no tax & push an agenda way left of ABC.

    4RPH (Radio For The Print-Handicapped)is having quite a few programs credited to 3CR Victoria. last nite it was Anarchist World with Joe Toscano:

    AUDIO: 3CR: Anarchist World This Week
    Presents an anarchist analysis on local, national and international news and events. Distributed nationally on the Community Radio Network.
    Dr Joe Toscano
    https://www.3cr.org.au/anarchistworld

    Wikipedia: Joseph Toscano
    Dr Joseph Toscano is a medical practitioner, a broadcaster and an anarchist who lives in Melbourne, Australia…
    He was educated in Brisbane at the University of Queensland where he acquired his Bachelor of Medicine/Surgery, then his doctoral degree from University of Melbourne…

    Friends of OUR ABC
    During 2000 Joseph Toscano formed a lobby group, Friends of OUR ABC, to agitate against commercialisation and privatisation of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. In November he was elected unopposed to the Friends of the ABC management committee…
    Election campaigns
    Dr Toscano has stood as an independent candidate for the Senate on several occasions since 1977. Although not enrolled to vote, through a quirk in the electoral laws he is allowed to stand as a candidate…
    Toscano received 0.78 percent of the vote at the 2009 Higgins by-election…
    He ran as an independent candidate at the 2012 Melbourne state by-election, receiving 0.75% of the vote…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Toscano

    Wikipedia: 3CR Melbourne
    It features mainly talk-based programs with political (particularly trade unions) and environmental themes…
    The station’s broadcasting licence was approved on 10 October 1975, by the Minister for the Media, Dr Moss Cass…
    In 2016, 3CR published a history of the station titled Radical radio: Celebrating 40 years of 3CR…
    The station is supported by listener donations and fundraising. It does not accept commercial advertising or sponsorship…
    3CR is owned by the Community Radio Federation Ltd. The Federation is made up of representatives of 3CR affiliates, subscribers and station workers…

    more to come.

    11

    • #
      yarpos

      Seems vaguely ridiculous. Mr Toscano seems to particpate in, engage with, be part of, a litany of very mainstream establishment entities for an “anarchist”

      40

  • #
    pat

    3CR: Who we are
    Program Policy
    Our affiliated organisations are Anarchist Media Institute, Armenian Gen. Benevolent Union, Australia Asia Worker Links, Australian Manufacturing Workers’ Union, Australian Saay Harari Association Inc., Beyond Zero Emissions, Campaign for International Cooperation and Disarmament, CEPU Electrical Division, CEPU Plumbing Division, Ceylon Tamil Association Vic, CFMEU Construction & General Division, Council for the Defence of Government schools, EarthSharing Australia, Ethiopian Community Association, Federation of Community Legal Centres, Friends of the Earth, Green Left Weekly, Housing for the Aged Action Group, Latin American Info Centre, Maritime Union of Australia, Melbourne Unitarian Church, National Union of Workers, Ogaden Community of Australia, Roominations, Save Albert Park, SUWA, Tenants Union of Victoria Ltd, The Boite, The Boldness, Vic Branch Sec SPA, Victorian Jazz Club, Voice of West Papua, and Wellways…

    Finances
    3CR is financially independent, relying on memberships and donations for financial support. We do not advertise, nor do our programmes rely on commercial sponsorship (effectively this is advertising). Government funding is accepted in the form of one-off grants for specific projects or programs, as well as grant money through the Community Broadcasting Foundation…
    LINK: 2918 Annual Report
    (EXCERPTS)
    2018 Project Funding
    Community Broadcasting Foundation
    Total Funding: $294,677
    Local Government
    City of Yarra
    Total Funding: $51,706
    State Govt
    Department of Premier and Cabinet Community Infrastructure and Cultural Precincts – New Roof $27,067
    Victorian Department of Justice and Regulation Corrections Victoria and Koori Justice Unit – Beyond the Bars $10,059
    P23: Total Revenue: $941.601 Tax: Zero ETC
    https://www.3cr.org.au/whoweare

    pity CAGW sceptics don’t have a community radio station.

    11

  • #
    Chad

    Anyone follow the debate around Franks analysis of the accuracy of climate models ..
    https://youtu.be/THg6vGGRpvA
    And a responce..
    https://patricktbrown.org/2017/01/25/do-propagation-of-error-calculations-invalidate-climate-model-projections-of-global-warming/
    Read the comments under the article .

    20

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks Chad,
      I’ve watched, but not studied, both, and just read Franks’ reply to Brown (which I recommend. It’s the first, and long.) And his stuff was new to me, but I found it interesting and plausible. I wasn’t comfortable with Brown’s material, but couldn’t have given you any comment with value.

      Franks’ reply is comprehensive and addresses all my vague concerns and then some.

      Franks’ “propagation of uncertainty” is a new concept for me, but I like it.
      Cheers
      Dave B

      30

      • #
        Chad

        DoC…. yes its an intriguing concept of model theory etc with some prety heavy statistical and mathmatical input…way beyond my level.
        But the debate is spread across several blogs and sites (EG WUWT) , and seems unresolve .

        20

        • #
          Chad

          I find Dr Franks analysis convincing, particularly his demonstration of how the climate models predictions can be replicated simply with a pocket calculator and a simple linear formula !
          He doesnt seem to be a fanatical climate scientist, only a professional model expert explaining the issues.
          I am also suspicious why there is so much “intense opposition” to his analysis, when it is simply an unpublished paper detailing modeling errors ?.

          20

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Hi Chad, while I didn’t watch the presentation, the position of the models in climate science is quite clear; they aren’t models.

            To have a model there has to be a core functioning mechanism. In climate models there is only allusion to the dangerous properties of CO2.

            http://joannenova.com.au/2018/12/midweek-unthreaded-53/#comment-2086733

            Climate Models purporting to describe a relationship between CO2 levels and temperature are nothing but misrepresentation.

            KK

            40

            • #
              Chad

              The Frank video is worth a view for a different reason .
              Frank simply reviews the “Model Theory” from an academic perspective of how errors and accuracy are treated.
              He shows why the models are fundamentally flawed.

              30

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Hi, I suspected that it might be something like that. The basis of any model is in outlining the process.

                As an example: a few ideas,

                November 14, 2018 at 10:49 pm

                Good outline TON

                The high energy Radiation from the Sun has only ONE ENERGY PATHWAY.

                DOWN.

                It must always be degraded in it’s INTENSITY and capacity to heat an object or do work.

                Inbound solar is high energy short wave.

                From there it degrades and eventually leaves Earth’s holding bays, ground, ocean and Atmosphere, as low intensity IR – Long Waves.

                The Warmer theme that you can store up low energy radiation (Ground Origin IR ) and convert it to high energy – shorter wave radiation and beam it back to ground is Scientifically NUTSO.

                That is the only way to describe it.

                Totally Impossible.

                All of this “Climate Science” has been done on PAPER or inside the bounds of a COMPUTER and there has never been any associated physical measurement or experimentation.

                The only experiment I have ever seen or heard of that closely resembles the CO2 heating meme was done by the TV Programme, The Myth Busters.

                It was in true warmer Style, a total scientific FARCE.

                Four gas environments were held in simple cubes of plastic sheeting and placed in line in front of 4 heating lamps.

                One was normal air, the others included enhanced CO2 environments.

                When the lamps were turned on the Plastic environment with the higher CO2 atmospheres showed a minor temperature increase.

                Whether by design or error the 4 cubes were very close to each other – so close that the two end cubes were those that received less heat from the lamps.

                Yes , there was overlap of heat zones from the lamps which meant that the two middle cubes received heat from two adjacent lamps in addition to its own lamp.

                By design or error, not again, the two innermost cubes were the experimental cubes containing higher CO2 levels and surprise , surprise, they also had the highest temperatures.

                So Myth Busters has taught a whole generation of budding scientists that extra CO2 will HEAT the atmosphere.

                How do you fight this sort of crap?

                KK :)

                http://joannenova.com.au/2018/11/climate-models-are-a-joke/#comment-2069793

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          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Hi, just to reinforce the main issue;

            KinkyKeith
            February 17, 2018 at 9:20 pm
            The illusion of debate is a good title to prompt assessment of the Man Made Global Warming Meme.

            There is only one truth that needs to be substantiated and that should be obvious, however the waters have been muddied so much using irrelevant factors that most of the public and all of the politicians just don’t know.

            The basic concept of CAGW, put out by the warming community, is that CO2 is a heat trapping gas.

            The whole scam is based on one mechanism: the idea that carbon dioxide is a heat trapping, “greenhouse” gas.

            I have said that twice for a reason: it is the core concept on which CAGW stands or falls.

            IT IS NOT A HEAT TRAPPING GAS and must resolve to equilibrate with gases surrounding it: Instantly.

            It is known and accepted by all scientists with basic university degrees, there is no mechanism by which CO2 can adversely affect the atmospheric temperature.

            Why has this point never been examined in court?

            We should no longer debate the warmer deliberations because we need to go to the core of the issue: that CO2 cannot act in the way they claim.

            This is the scientific truth of the matter.

            There never was and never will be any human caused Global Warming.

            We need to start attacking this point.

            Real science is quite clear: CO2 is NOT a heat trapping gas any more than any other gas and cannot be responsible for changes in Earth’s atmospheric temperature.

            All other debate around global warming is irrelevant, pointless and deceitful when this fact is ignored.

            Why is this fact not used as the basis of a court action against all of the “misdirection” of public funds justified by association with the CAGW scam.

            Warmer advocats have avoided facing the question on the basic mechanism by endlessly debating non issues and have given the Illusion of Debate while hiding from the

            real science.

            KK

            00

  • #
    pat

    theirABC gets the quotes it wants from unlikely weather forecasters:

    21 Jul: ABC: Life in Queensland’s Channel Country means you can have a huge flood without any rain
    ABC Southern Qld By Nathan Morris
    “It’s the first time we’ve had it [water storage] full for about eight years,” said Mr Emmott, who in the past has spent many months trucking water to his Noonbah cattle station south of Longreach in western Queensland.
    But after eight failed summers in a row they have been lucky to finally benefit from recent rain, as well as channel flooding further upstream after a cyclone in February.
    “We’ve got 50,000 hectares here and 25,000 of that goes under water in a big flood, and it’s just been under water,” Mr Emmott said…

    Changing climate a concern
    Despite this, the extended weather forecast is not promising a return to average rainfalls.
    “It’s not looking particularly brilliant over the next few years,” Mr Emmott said…

    His cautiousness stems from his involvement ***as a board member at Farmers for Climate Action (FCA), a group of agricultural leaders advocating for climate action to ensure the future of their industry.
    Mr Emmott recently hosted FCA’s chief executive Verity Morgan-Schmidt.
    “Farmers and graziers, who have long been experts at managing the natural climate variability that we experience in this part of the world, are increasingly starting to recognise the changing climatic signals that are occurring,” Ms Morgan-Schmidt said…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-07-21/flood-in-queensland-brings-drought-relief-to-channel-country/11326924

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    yarpos

    “Farmers and graziers, who have long been experts at managing the natural climate variability that we experience…..”

    it would make more sense if they said they managed their response, they dont manage the climate

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      Bill in Oz

      Those farmers are managing their lands
      With flood & drought as part of the natural order.
      And have done for generations.
      But now the ABC also demands they manage the climate

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    theRealUniverse

    The idiot warmitas will have another field day as it went to 42 somewhere in Germany..even melted an icecream.

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      Greg in NZ

      http://www.summitcamp.org/status/weather/

      And Greenland’s summit weather station, affectionately known as the ‘Greenhouse’, is sweltering on minus 5 degrees Celsius today (up from Wednesday’s minus 23˚C) with what looks like freshly fallen snow surrounding the buildings (click on ‘Webcam’ for base pic).

      If carbon gets any worse, the temp may even warm all the way up to freezing! The horror!

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        theRealUniverse

        Yes and when its BELOW 0C its melting the ice at unprecedented rates..You cant make this stuff up!

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          Greg in NZ

          Just checked again this arvo: -9˚C with -15˚C wind chill. Maybe Saint Greta of Thermals could walk (better still, cross-country ski) from Sweden to New York via Greenland to receive her latest prize as Useful Idiot Of The Year 2019 at the (now 20 feet below sea level?) UN Head Orifice Insane Asylum…

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    pat

    lengthy, full of it:

    21 Jul: ABC: Climate change could drown Kiribati, but the nation looks for Noah’s Ark
    By freelance correspondent ***Kurt Johnson
    (Kurt Johnson is a freelance writer who travelled to Kiribati ***for an international development project)
    As with so many other countries, the climate debate in Kiribati has been politicised. Two sides wrestle to control the narrative, leaving concrete action and scientific reality behind…ETC
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-21/kiribati-hopefull-in-face-of-climate-change-rising-sea-levels/11228658

    ***ABC can’t name the international development project?
    tried to find it, but failed. instead I got:
    44 matches in the following for ***”Kurt Johnson”:

    24 Jun: 3CR Beyond Zero Community: All About Adani
    by Kurt Johnson
    We chatted with Stephen Long who was the journalist on the ABC Four Corners program: Digging into Adani to get an idea for how the Adani Group operates and how it has performed financially, environmentally and legally in the past, particularly with its projects in India…

    Beyond Zero – Community – Female Rights and Dirty Power
    by Kurt Johnson
    Part II of our exploration of Drawdown. We speak to Erica Berthelsen, international program director for the One Girl charity, Michael West Investigative journalist working on Dirty Power – a documentary film linking governments to the mining lobby & Dr Redmond is with Doctors for the Environment Australia…ETC ETC
    https://www.3cr.org.au/beyondzero/itunes

    these community radio stations are reinforcing the CAGW narrative all over the country. 4RPH in Brisbane used to be a popular radio station, but I feel they will be losing listeners with their new format. it was bad enough when they had CAGW-infested BBC overnights.

    add to that the fact they read newspapers & magazines for the rest of the day, and that means anti-Trump propaganda and not much else, except for when they read from The Australian & Brisbane’s Corier Mail early mornings, which have some balanced reporting, but still plenty of CAGW.

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      pat

      a final word. another station regularly mentioned on 4RPH these days is 2SER.

      Wikipedia: Macquarie University
      Macquarie University has its own community radio station on campus, 2SER FM. The station is jointly owned by Macquarie University and University of Technology, Sydney…
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macquarie_University

      Wikipedia: 2SER
      Their studios are located in Ultimo and Macquarie, Sydney…
      The Wire, an Australian current affairs program broadcast through the Community Radio Satellite…

      2SER – Programs
      Beyond Zero
      Climate change – what’s hot and what’s not. Find out what is happening in community campaigns around the country, as well as the latest science and the solutions that are available now. Produced by 3CR 885AM Melbourne

      Common Ground
      Common Ground is a joint venture between The Guardian and 2SER, where we bring four different Australians together to find out what they think of the political system…etc etc

      BOTTOM OF EVERY 2SER PAGE: UTS, Macquarie University
      https://2ser.com/shows/

      the left seem to have captured the community radio space, as they say.

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      Bill in Oz

      With any luck their prayers will be answered
      And God will stop any rising flooding waters.
      If not they wil just have to move to
      The 2000 hectares of land bought for them on Fiji

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    Another Ian

    “What’s really killing the Coral Reefs?”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/07/20/whats-really-killing-the-coral-reefs/

    Beat-upon the GBR in 3, 2, 1 – - ?

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    pat

    heard on replay of Outsiders/Sky tonite:

    21 Jul: Daily Mail: Green protester, 20, who caused chaos by gluing himself to a Brisbane street still lives with his parents in emission-spewing five-bedroom mansion with an infinity pool
    •Extinction Rebellion protester Eric Serge Herbert glued himself to Brisbane road
    •The 20-year-old former school captain moved to Sydney for uni but dropped out
    •He is now living with his parents in a five-bedroom waterfront mansion in QLD
    By Zoe Zaczek
    The waterfront five-bedroom, four-bathroom mansion in Pelican Waters on the Sunshine Coast also comes with a freestanding aquarium, vacuumaid, a triple lock garage and a private jetty, The Courier-Mail reported…
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7267721/Extinction-Rebellion-protester-20-lives-parents-emission-spewing-five-bedroom-mansion.html

    19 Jul: AUDIO: 3min10sec: 3AW: Neil Mitchell: Melbourne declares a climate emergency, but the Lord Mayor is unclear on the details
    Part of the motion passed at a council meeting on Tuesday said “climate change and mass species extinction pose serious risks to the people of Melbourne and Australia, and should be treated as an emergency”.
    But when Neil Mitchell asked Lord Mayor Sally Capp which species are at risk in the Melbourne area, she was vague on the details.
    “There are lots of plants and all sorts of things that are actually at risk,” she said.
    “I must say I’m going to get some more detail on exactly what those species are and come back to you.
    “I’m sorry I’ve come without the names of those species today.”
    PLUS FULL AUDIO
    https://www.3aw.com.au/melbourne-declares-a-climate-emergency-but-the-lord-mayor-is-unclear-on-the-details/

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      theRealUniverse

      ‘He is now living with his parents in a five-bedroom waterfront mansion in QLD’
      Nothing but a Spoiled brat!

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        Greg in NZ

        More like a Boiled Sprat: dropped out of ‘nanoscience’, unemployed and back home, tried paddling a canoe “on a road” then later glued himself to said road and worst of all, has to live on the “waterfront” of a reclaimed tidal swamp known as Pelican Waters… no wonder the boiled sprat is panicking, running scared – he gonna drown!

        “I am truly sorry that this has to happen, I don’t want to have to sacrifice my liberties or studies to do this but [but what!?] if we don’t stand together we will die apart along with all other life on earth” he posted on Facebook jibber-jabbered mindlessly to the æther and his fellow 20-something Eek-Stinkies!

        This twerp’s actions would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad…

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          Another Ian

          Greg

          “This twerp’s actions would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad…”

          Latest definition of delusions of grandeur?

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            Greg in NZ

            It would appear his ‘delusions of grandeur’ are a family affair:

            http://www.kiwireport.com/elisha-renee-identical-twin-sisters-went-viral/

            He is one of three triplets, his ‘identical twin’ sisters making use of their looks (and youthful slender sun-tanned bikini-clad bods) to make a living as ‘influencers’ and models. As the above pap site oozes: “However, there is one member of their family who is less into their modeling career… Elisha and Renee are actually two sisters that are triplets with a third brother. This brother lives in Sydney currently, studies science, and isn’t such a fan of his sisters’ burgeoning modeling career”.

            Sibling rivalry? Jealous brother? Run back home to mummy, Eric, and glue yourself to a road. Got to admit though, surveying the twins’ pics he’s up against some stiff competition…

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    Peter C

    Letter to the Minister of Education, Dan Tehan

    JCU and Professor Peter Ridd

    Dear Minister Dan Tehan ( Minister for Education),

    There is a serious problem in our Universities. A Leftist/Socialist ideology has been cultivated for decades and has taken root. Now it has taken over.

    It is no longer possible for reasonable academic debate to occur in our Universities. That manifests itself in a lot of ways. Most seriously the debate about whether humans are causing Global Warming (Anthropogenic Global Warming- AGW) and the possible effects of AGW is actively and viciously suppressed.

    Professor Ridd challenged the orthodoxy at his University (James Cook). He offended his academic colleagues because he said that the Great Barrier Reef was OK and other academics at the University had become emotionally attached to their brand of “science” and had lost objectivity.

    I cannot see any problem with that. It is an honest and important contribution to academic debate. It is an ISSUE and it should be addressed. It is important to the all Australian people because the Reef is important to us. and so is the impact of on agriculture in Queensland. However the University administration did not take that approach at all. Instead they sacked him for being “uncollegiate”.

    “Uncollegiate” is not a proper reason for sacking Professor Ridd. It should be a reason to open up this debate and address the issues which he has raised.

    Professor Peter Ridd chose to challenge the University and appealed that decision to the Supreme Court of Queensland. He had to spend his own savings and was assisted by fund raising from like minded Australians. I am one of those who helped him. The University was able to spend taxpayers money to defend their case.

    The case was decided on a narrow legal view of Professor Ridd’s employment contract. Judge Vasta said that Ridd was correct on all ten of the appeal ground’s.
    None the less the case has a much wider context, with respect to the freedom of academic free speech and the Climate Change debate.

    Now the James Cook University Vice Chancellor (Professor Sarah Harding) has said that the JCU will appeal the decision.

    I appeal to you, as Minister for Education, to put a stop to this.
    My Taxpayer dollars should not be used by the James Cook University (JCU) to punish Professor Ridd any further for his supposed Heresy. Nor should the JCU try to justify their egregious behaviour, in court, with our money.

    There is a legislative requirement that freedom of speech is preserved in our Universities. I hope that you will apply that to the JCU, and their administration.

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    Letter writing required by serfs. Nullius in Verba, motto of Royal Academy that funded James Cook journey to the South Pacific, implications fer Great Southern Land and moah! Oh Darwin!

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    A pleasure Peter.Tomorrow pen to paper.

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    Peter C

    Peer Review.

    Weekend Unthreaded running out now. But there might be a few readers.

    I just wanted to say, I have been reading the JoNova blogs from the very start. Year 2008.

    I am not sure what got her started.

    Jo on Peer Review!

    Joanne Nova
    June 30, 2009 at 8:25 pm
    A very fair question to ask GeeMac. The peer review system stops some ‘junk’ from being published, but is fairly shallow.
    Reviewers remain anonymous and are unpaid, so you can imagine how much effort they go to when a paper appears to support them or is non-contradictory. For papers that disagree and threaten their own status, they naturally pour in effort to find any flaw, and sometimes they make illogical comments, and that’s enough, the paper get rejected.
    Many peer reviewed papers are subsequently found to be either flawed, or irreproducible.
    That said, we do need a way to weed out the list of scientific theories and ideas and questions to make it more manageable. It’s hard to sort through the infinite array of possible answers. Plus once something is published we can all comment on one fixed document rather than just refer to mobile targets like “Sinbad’s idea of a few years ago”, but we do need to analyze the peer review process. The incentives are not working that well.
    And ‘consensus’, which you refer too towards the end, is only proof that we should think twice before chucking out an idea. If the evidence disagrees with the ‘consensus’ then we should check it again. But evidence trumps opinion. Consensus is subject to finance, fashion, politics and prey to vagaries of the human brain.

    Ok I agree with that.

    My response is that the anonymity should be with drawn. Why do we need anonymity for peer review?

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    pat

    behind paywall…headline should be “Politicians and the police and the MSM”:

    21 Jul: UK Times: Dominic Lawson: Politicians and the police must stop indulging Extinction Rebellion
    My hero of the week is Brian Salt. This 73-year-old Bristolian had become increasingly enraged by the roadblock set up by Extinction Rebellion on a street he used to drive his camper van to pick up a fellow pensioner, Lynne Mattin, and drop her off at a nearby firm where she had an evening shift.
    Over the first two days of last week’s Extinction Rebellion demonstrations in Bristol, Mr Salt had in vain appealed to the activists to let him through to pick up Ms Mattin: “She was in tears from the pain. She has a false knee and can’t walk long distances. I tried to tell them this, but they didn’t listen.”
    So on Wednesday he tore down the Extinction Rebellion roadblock, later telling the Bristol Post: “They were shouting, ‘Call the police, call the police”…

    18 Jul: Bristol Post: This man ripped down an Extinction Rebellion Bristol road-block and doesn’t care if he’s arrested
    Protesters reportedly shouted, ‘Call the police, call the police’
    By Conor Gogarty
    Mr Salt says activists have repeatedly refused to let him pass each evening, meaning Ms Mattin, 65, has had to walk about a quarter of a mile to work.
    “She was in tears from the pain,” Mr Salt said. “She has a false knee and she can’t walk long distances.
    “I tried to tell them this but they didn’t listen. It’s disgusting. Any sympathy people might have had for the protesters is gone.”…READ ON
    https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/extinction-rebellion-bristol-protest-traffic-3104325

    18 Jul: Bristol Post: Extinction Rebellion ‘very sorry’ for disruption caused by M32 protest in Bristol
    A man was reportedly unable to visit his dying father because he was stuck in traffic
    By Zosia Eyres
    Yesterday’s hostility escalated when the BBC reported it received a call from a man who was unable to reach his dying father in hospital because he was held up by the protest.
    The BBC then visited the scene of the protest and played a recording of the call to one of the protesters, who began to cry.
    She said: “We’re incredibly sorry, we didn’t mean for our protest to affect your life in this way.
    “I still believe we are doing the right thing but it’s incredibly difficult to hear stories like that.”

    The Extinction Rebellion Bristol group then posted on Facebook: “We’re very sorry for the immense disruption that we caused to Bristol residents today. Some have not only been inconvenienced but have also been deeply impacted on a personal and emotional level, and it really saddens us.
    “We’re sending great empathy and love from our community to them.
    “Despite this, we were there to cause disruption because our government isn’t acting on the climate and ecological crisis. And it is a crisis – that has very real and immediate human consequences.”
    https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/extinction-rebellion-protest-m32-traffic-3104687

    elsewhere, Bristol Post has tons of favourable stuff on XR, and it considers the following a victory for XR after their week of protest:

    21 Jul: BristolPost: This is what declaring a climate emergency actually means
    The West of England Combined Authority has now joined the four councils in the region in declaring a climate emergency
    By Kate Wilson, Political Editor & Adam Postans
    The West of England Combined Authority (Weca) has declared a climate emergency…
    Metro mayor Tim Bowles moved the motion during a Weca committee meeting today (July 19).
    The motion acknowledged the challenge and threat of the current climate emergency, the impact on the health, safety and wellbeing of residents, and that there is already a commitment across the West of England for clean and inclusive economic growth…
    During today’s meeting Weca also approved a £250,000 investment to develop pilot projects – through its Energy Strategy and Climate Change Action Plan – supporting the region’s move to a low carbon future…

    But what does declaring a climate emergency actually mean?
    The United Nations says we could have just 11 years left to limit a climate change catastrophe…
    So far it seems to be more of a declaration of intent rather than agreeing any concrete moves…

    Green Bristol City councillor Steve Clarke, who chairs WECA’s scrutiny committee, said: “WECA is sitting on large amounts of money and has responsibility for transport, education and skills and housing across the whole region – so this declaration must be followed by actual spending plans that support the green economy and create the future we need.
    “We have declared an emergency, we need to act like it is real.”
    https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/what-declaring-climate-emergency-actually-3110965

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    pat

    Weather Channel joined other FakeNewsMSM carrying this nonsense:

    Scientists Propose Pumping Trillions of Tons of Snow onto Antarctic Ice to Stop Melting
    The Weather Channel-19 Jul 2019

    18 Jul: Gizmodo: Scientists Propose Pumping 74 Trillion Tons Of Artificial Snow Onto To The West Antarctic Ice Sheet To Stop Its Collapse
    by Brian Kahn
    What sounds like a discussion climate scientists would have after eating a bunch of pot brownies is actually the premise of a new paper (LINK) out in Science Advances on Thursday…
    The coastal glaciers hold back an ice sheet that would raise sea levels more than 3.05m if it melted entirely, but they’re being undercut by warm water…

    Researchers used a climate model to simulate the ice sheet’s continued meltdown and then cranked up the snowfall on it, which in turn would become ice as it gets compacted down. The findings show that adding up to 10 metres of ice per year over the course of 10 years would be enough to protect the West Antarctic glaciers from completely destabilising if our currently warmed-up climate stayed constant.
    That would amount to adding 7400 gigatons or billion tons of ice. As Jane Flegal, a science policy expert and adjunct faculty member at Arizona State’s School for the Future of Innovation in Society, pointed out to Gizmodo, that’s six order of magnitude more than the volume of the Panama Canal…

    The study itself acknowledges that, noting that it would require pumping ocean water 640 metres in elevation to the glacier surfaces, desalinating said water, and then blowing it as snow or finding a way to store it long enough to freeze…
    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2019/07/scientists-propose-pumping-74-trillion-tons-of-artificial-snow-onto-to-the-west-antarctic-ice-sheet-to-stop-its-collapse/

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      Bill in Oz

      Now there’s some ‘scientists’ for you – NOT
      More like dopey idiots !

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        Kinky Keith

        Climate Change science has been the subject of much analysis but this one is pitched at about the right level:

        http://joannenova.com.au/2018/12/midweek-unthreaded-53/#comment-2086763

        The really funny thing is that Climate Scientists, being taught Scientific Awareness 101 and Science Appreciation 201, would not get the joke.

        KK

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            Greg in NZ

            “Climate fiction, or cli-fi, is a new category of speculative fiction, born out of climate change concern. Where We Land is a new cli-fi novella, that envisions a world dealing with climate refugees and rising sea levels“. Bold/italics mine.

            https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018705197/climate-fiction-in-new-zealand

            Fed up with our State broadcaster’s endless, mindless drivel about rising sea levels and other CCCrap, I texted a brief comment to the host of the above RadioNZ programme while he was interviewing the Australian so-called cli-fi author, Tim Jones, saying we climate realists have been referring to man-made catastrophic pseudo-science as ‘cli-fi‘ for years so the term wasn’t exactly ‘new’.

            Usually my (rare) texts are read out (brief/succinct/humorous) yet this one was obviously captured by the Green Audio Police (GAP) and quietly disappeared down the memory hole before any dissenting voice/opinion/science made it to air. The host and show’s producer (and management) are both hardline believers of the UN’s NWO Cli-Fi nonsense, so any members of the public – their bosses and wage payers no less – who veer off the path of ‘consensus’ are 86d… banished… vanished… deleted… non compos mentis.

            Sending snow machines to Antarctica? Be like selling fridges to Eskimos – or would that be air conditioners in this back-to-front upside-down warmy-warmy cli-fi world? So how do these scamentists explain away the Dry Valleys?

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    robert rosicka

    Have not seen or heard a news broadcast for about five weeks and don’t really miss it but would have liked to see something about the quake we were in near Broome .
    Internet patchy at best where we have been .
    Tomorrow it’s back to Broome to stock up and then to Quandong point for a week so we don’t get back to freezing Victoriastan weather to soon .
    An interesting fact I found is about 130 kilometres from Marble bar you can see evidence of glacial activity , now that’s climate change for you .

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    pat

    20 Jul: ForeignPolicy: Who will save the Planet?
    Why Central Banks Need to Step Up on Global Warming
    A decade after the world bailed out finance, it’s time for finance to bail out the world.
    By Adam Tooze
    (Adam Tooze is a history professor and director of the European Institute at Columbia University)
    Mark Carney—formerly of Goldman Sachs and the Canadian central bank, now governor of the Bank of England—can take credit for first raising the issue in financial circles at an after-dinner speech at Lloyd’s of London in September 2015. Two years later in Paris, leading central bankers and regulators founded the Network for Greening the Financial System (NGFS), which aims to throw the weight of key financial institutions behind the goals of the Paris climate agreement. The membership of the NGFS now includes most of the central banks of the G-20, such as the European Central Bank and the People’s Bank of China.

    Private financial actors have also joined the green finance bandwagon. At the One Planet Summit in New York City in 2018, 23 leading global banks, eight of the top 10 global asset managers, ***the world’s leading pension funds and insurers, the two preeminent shareholder advisory service companies, and other major financial firms—which are together responsible for managing almost $100 trillion in assets—committed themselves to the transparency principles of the blue-ribbon Task Force on Climate-related Financial Disclosures, which was launched by Carney in his capacity as head of the Financial Stability Board and is chaired by Michael Bloomberg.

    It is telling that the only financial authority not to be involved in these initiatives is the U.S. Federal Reserve, the most powerful central bank in the global financial system. But even if it were to come aboard, the most critical question would remain whether the green agenda of the world’s central banks is adequate to the challenge of mitigating the effects of the climate crisis—and perhaps holding it within manageable bounds…

    Investment in renewables is not free. If undertaken on the scale needed, which will run into the tens of trillions of dollars over several decades, it will squeeze consumption and investment spending in other activities, in the same way that the shale boom squeezed out other activities in Texas and Oklahoma…
    According to authoritative estimates by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development and the IPCC, an energy transition adequate to stabilize global warming will involve investing trillions of dollars per year over the next two decades…
    What could central banks do to help sustain a historic investment drive running into the tens of trillions of dollars?…
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/07/20/why-central-banks-need-to-step-up-on-global-warming/

    behind paywall:

    Climate trillions frittered in the wind
    by BJORN LOMBORG
    The Australian-19 Jul 2019
    In addition, the Paris Agreement on climate change will cost the world from $US1 trillion to $US2 trillion a year by 2030…

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    pat

    Di Natale was on ABC Insiders today – link below:

    Richard Di Natale defends Bob Brown over wind farm opposition
    The Australian – 1 hour ago
    Greens leader Richard Di Natale has backed his predecessor Bob Brown’s concerns about a proposed wind farm on Tasmania’s Robbins Island, saying it needs to be subject to a thorough planning process…

    Andrew Bolt: Greens admit wind turbines are bird killers
    Herald Sun – 21 Jul 2019

    Green silence on wind farm menace broken
    The Advertiser – 1 hour ago
    Greens leader Richard Di Natale through gritted teeth yesterday conceded it might be bad to now put some … over a real and present threat to birds, and the ABC is still doing it.

    7min06sec to 9min38sec: Bob Brown/wind story:

    VIDEO: 21 Jul: ABC Insders: Richard Di Natale joins Insiders
    Annabel Crabb interviews Greens leader Richard Di Natale.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-21/richard-di-natale-joins-insiders/11329470

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    pat

    videos not working for me at first link:

    20 Jul: KGW8: Klickitat County wildfire burns over 300 acres, threatens structures
    The fire started at a wind turbine south of Bickleton, Wash.; state mobilization has been authorized
    The fire started about 1:40 p.m. in the generator unit of a wind turbine about 12 miles south of Bickleton in rural Klickitat County.
    Flames engulfed the turbine 300 feet about the ground, Klickitat County Emergency Management said. When melted sections of the turbine fell to the ground, they ignited grass, brush and timber…

    The fire has since spread across between 350 to 500 acres and into steep terrain with the help of gusty winds.
    As of 8 p.m. firefighters from across Klickitat County had been dispatched to the fire, including 25 fire units, 2 dozers and 2 engines from DNR, authorities said.
    The fire is currently estimated to be 20 percent contained…
    https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/wildfire/klickitat-county-wildfire-burns-over-300-acres-threatens-structures/283-966c8dc0-1b82-4664-b956-28fba8b11a68

    Video works here:
    https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2019/07/21/klickitat-county-wildfire-burns-over-300-acres-threatens-structures/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NWW-News+%28National+Wind+Watch%3A+News%29

    20 Jul: StopTheseThings: Total Flop: 20 years & $60 Billion in Subsidies, Wind & Solar ‘Deliver’ Risible 7% of Australia’s Power Demand
    https://stopthesethings.com/2019/07/20/total-flop-20-years-60-billion-in-subsidies-wind-solar-deliver-risible-7-of-australias-power-demand/

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      beowulf

      The likes of Morrison, Angus Taylor, Josh Frydenberg, Albo, The Plib, Penny Wong etc need to have their noses rubbed in factual analyses like this until such time as it sinks in.

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      Chad

      That is a well. intentioned article that is let down by its incorrect use of power and energy units and some very vague data sources for generator output.
      Useful, but easy for supporters of wind to tear to pieces as discussed in the comments..

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    RickWill

    Andrew Bolt points out the hypocrisy of Bob Brown:
    https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/brown-too-late-but-right-on-wind-farms/video/a812cc2f5fe6f232a1a0cfa952517794
    But goes on to admit Bob Brown is right with regards to bird deaths. It gets a bit sad as it goes on. Any true environmentalist watching this would want to see all wind turbines dismantled starting yesterday.

    As far as dispatchable power is concerned, managing forests to produce fuel is the only currently available economic renewable energy technology for grid power. There is an economic place for existing solar panel technology and storage of various types located at low energy intensive remote loads. There is no economic benefit to building and using wind generators.

    Bird deaths of endangered species could be the basis of a class action to increase the financial risk of building wind turbines.

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      Chad

      As far as dispatchable power is concerned, managing forests to produce fuel is the only currently available economic renewable energy technology for grid power.

      I do not know the detail, but..exactly how “ economical” is that option ?
      ..and how viable is that on a “National” , let alone “Global”. Scale ?
      Further, how could it ever be considered any less carbon/ CO2 intensive than coal or gas ?…
      …….other than to blind, deluded, IPCC member !
      Bring on the Nuclear…. 5,6, + generation of course
      …..

      .”You know it makes sense “

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    pat

    AUDIO: 3min 20sec: 22 Jul: ABC AM: Drought affected inland communities to get desalination plants
    By Rachel Carbonell
    Two drought ravaged communities in New South Wales are set to receive their own special desal plants to take the salt out of their emergency drinking water supplies.
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/am/drought-affected-inland-communities-to-get-desalination-plants/11330138

    22 Jul: AB: Saltwater solution for drought towns battling brackish drinking water
    By the National Regional Reporting Team’s Rachel Carbonell
    The New South Wales Government has now heeded the concerns of residents who are worried about sodium levels in their bore water.
    It has committed several million dollars to remove salt from the emergency bore water supplies in Bourke and Walgett using desalination technology called reverse osmosis…READ ON
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-22/saltwater-solution-for-drought-towns-brackish-drinking-water/11326154

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “The Charney Report Revisited”

    “Over on Twitter, Michael Tobis made the claim that the 1979 Charney report entitled “Carbon Dioxide and Climate: A Scientific Assessment” was a “triumph of 20th century meteorological science”, in part for predicting “surface warming tending to be concentrated in polar regions”. ”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/07/21/the-charney-report-revisited/

    When the meaning of “is” isn’t

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  • #
    pat

    Investors urge cement makers to cut emissions
    Financial Times – 3 hours ago

    22 Jul: news.com.au: Reuters: Funds urge cement makers to act on climate
    European funds managing $US2 trillion in assets called on cement companies to slash their greenhouse gas emissions
    by Matthew Green
    With the extreme weather and natural disasters associated with climate change intensifying around the world, some asset managers are ramping up engagement with heavy polluters to demand a faster transition to a cleaner economy.
    “The cement sector needs to dramatically reduce the contribution it makes to climate change,” said Stephanie Pfeifer, chief executive of the Institutional Investors Group on Climate Change, which has more than 170 members, mainly European pension funds and asset managers…
    Signatories collectively manage assets worth $US2 trillion and include Aberdeen Standard Investments, BNP Paribas Asset Management, Sarasin & Partners and Hermes EOS…READ ON
    https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/breaking-news/funds-urge-cement-makers-to-act-on-climate/news-story/d4181aff5cd87fefeebfa7b3aba9ea65

    22 Jul: SMH: Shareholder activists push AGL to clean up coal-fired power plants
    By Peter Hannam
    AGL, the largest electricity generator in Australia, will face pressure from activist shareholders to clean up its coal-fired power plants even if pollution regulators give them a tick.
    The Australasian Centre for Corporate Responsibility (ACCR), an ethical investment group that has previously pressured big companies such as Commonwealth Bank, Rio Tinto, BHP and Origin Energy on environmental, social and governance grounds, has pushed for a shareholder vote on pollution controls at the company’s upcoming annual general meeting on September 19…

    A separate resolution (LINK) calls on the company – which is also among Australia’s biggest carbon emitters – to disclose in its annual reporting from 2020 its strategies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in line with the goals of the Paris climate agreement…
    The resolutions require support from 50 per cent of voting shareholders to pass…READ ON
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/shareholder-activists-push-agl-to-clean-up-coal-fired-power-plants-20190719-p528wo.html

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  • #
    pat

    22 Jul: Livemint: Canada’s pension fund OMERS seeks new green energy deals
    by Utpal Bhaskar
    Pension fund said to be scouting for acquisitions in India’s clean energy sector
    India’s emerging green economy is expected to grow over threefold to $250 bn by 2023-30
    NEW DELHI: Canadian pension fund Ontario Municipal Employees’ Retirement System (OMERS) is scouting for acquisition opportunities in India, in an affirmation of the country’s position as a green energy hot-spot.

    With net assets of more than $100 billion under management, OMERS has been attracted by the presence of other Canadian investors in India such as Canada Pension Plan Investment Board (CPPIB), Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec (CDPQ) and Brookfield Asset Management…
    The infrastructure projects that OMERS has invested in include the London City airport, nuclear power station Bruce Power—Canada’s private nuclear generator—in Ontario, and the port of Melbourne in Australia…

    However, some concerns have emerged about India’s green energy space.
    “Investors are perturbed about what’s happening in Andhra Pradesh,” said a Mumbai-based deal maker seeking anonymity. The person was referring to Y.S. Jagan Mohan Reddy-led Andhra Pradesh government’s controversial plan to reopen power purchase agreements (PPAs) inked under the previous N. Chandrababu Naidu administration.

    In an attempt to diffuse the brewing legal crisis in Andhra Pradesh that may derail India’s clean energy run, Union power minister Raj Kumar Singh had written to the state government citing a danger of erosion of investor confidence…
    Singh, in his letter, also said that the tariff for solar and wind energy projects in different states will be different depending upon solar radiation and wind speed.
    https://www.livemint.com/industry/energy/canada-s-pension-fund-omers-seeks-new-green-energy-deals-1563737300464.html

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  • #
    Dennis

    Elected Representatives: MP, Senator, MLA, MLC Federal and State.

    I read this morning in The Australian that the State of New South Wales has natural resources locked away from extraction by our representatives, estimated to rival the US State of Texas’ natural resources, denied access to billions of dollars of revenue for the people that could be spent for the people.

    The same representatives have sold our electricity sector assets to private sector ownership most with plans to shut down the main generators of cheap (should be cheap) electricity in favour of wind and solar farms that we the people subsidise via our representatives and higher and higher electricity pricing.

    United Nations instructions, treaties, implemented and much more.

    When did our representatives ask for our permission?

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  • #
    pat

    the solar panel fire is more or less a footnote in this piece:

    21 Jul: CanberraTimes: Woman, children rescued from house fire in Bonython
    by Andrew Brown
    Just after 2pm, fire crews were called to a home on Bird Place in Flynn, after solar panels on the roof caught alight. The residents were able to get out of the home safely before firefighters arrived.
    The fire was extinguished just before 3pm…
    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6284300/police-investigating-bonython-home-fire/?cs=14225

    21 Jul: Emergency Services Agency: ACT Govt: ACT Fire & Rescue responded to a house fire on Bird Place, Flynn at approximately 2:10 this afternoon.
    Crews arrived to find solar panels on the roof of the home alight…ETC
    https://esa.act.gov.au/structure-fire-flynn

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  • #
    pat

    surely this will get a write-up by theirABC:

    PIC: 22 Jul: BurmaNewsInternational: Tangyan Monastery Burns Down After Solar Panel Failure
    With poor electricity access in the area, it is the fifth monastery to burn down this way.
    A monastery in the village of Lon Pon in northern Shan State’s Tangyan Township burned down this week after a battery attached to a solar panel exploded.
    “The wooden Lon Pon monastery has totally burned to the ground. Nobody was injured,” Tangyan local Sai Pa told SHAN.
    Locals say that this is the fifth area monastery to burn down this way.

    Many communities in Tangyan are not on the electricity grid, and must find their own power sources. Villagers typically use batteries attached to solar panels to get electricity, or rely on candles for light.
    “Only downtown Tangyan has electricity. Most villages don’t have electricity. Villagers use solar panels for electricity. It’s easy for fires to start if villagers use old electrical wiring in their house. We have to be careful,” Sai Pa said.

    The reliance faulty wiring connected to on solar panels has had tragic consequences elsewhere in Shan State. A 15-year-old in Hopong Township died on June 1 when a fire started as her phone was charging through a solar panel power source.
    Burma has some of the lowest rates of electricity access in Southeast Asia. Some 70 percent of those who do have access to electricity only have it for less than two hours per day, according to World Bank data released in 2018.
    https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/tangyan-monastery-burns-down-after-solar-panel-failure

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  • #
    pat

    Reuters has only a link:

    22 Jul: Reuters India: MEDIA-India’s Suzlon Energy gets bad loan tag from state-run Union Bank – Mint
    LINK Livemint
    Note: Reuters has not verified this story and does not vouch for its accuracy (Bengaluru newsroom)

    22 Jul: Livemint: Suzlon gets a bad loan tag from Union Bank
    by Shayan Ghosh
    More banks with exposure to the wind turbine maker likely to follow suit
    MUMBAI: State-run Union Bank of India has tagged Suzlon Energy Ltd as a bad loan and more banks are expected to follow suit as the stressed wind turbine maker has struggled to repay its lenders, two people aware of the development said.
    In the quarter ended 30 June, Union Bank has updated the status of the account as non-performing in the central bank’s Central Repository of Information on Large Credits database, said one of the two people cited above.
    “Union Bank had to classify Suzlon as a bad loan after repayments were delayed by over 90 days,” the person said on condition of anonymity…

    Last week, Suzlon’s consortium of lenders initiated work on a resolution plan for the firm and one of the rescue plans could involve Canadian asset manager Brookfield Asset Management, as Bloomberg reported on 11 July, offering to buy a majority stake in the wind turbine maker.
    The bad loan tag by one of Suzlon’s lenders will force other Indian banks to set aside money to cover potential losses on their exposure to the firm. It will also add to the ₹9.49 trillion pile of bad loans on their books as of 31 March. Last week, Suzlon also missed a deadline to pay $172 million due to foreign currency convertible bondholders…
    Other lenders to Suzlon include Bank of India, Bank of Baroda, Central Bank of India, IDBI Bank and Punjab National Bank…

    As Mint reported on 17 July, Suzlon’s turnaround seems tough at a time the industry itself is facing challenges in terms of thinning government tenders and delayed payments from state power distribution utilities.
    The payment cycle for private power developers has worsened in states such as Andhra Pradesh, where accounts receivable were due for 8-10 months in March from 4-5 months a year ago. In Tamil Nadu, the period is over nine months now, hitting the liquidity profile of several wind power developers.
    https://www.livemint.com/industry/energy/suzlon-gets-a-bad-loan-tag-from-union-bank-1563736586944.html

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    pat

    18 Jul: Fortune: Europe Wants to Be the World’s Climate Change Police — If Only It Can Agree on What That Means
    By Geoffrey Smith
    Europe’s new top bureaucrat (Ursula von der Leyen) wants to breathe new life into the continent’s long-cherished dream of being the world’s climate cop. By fall, it should be clear whether she has any chance of succeeding…
    The problem? Europe’s increasingly powerful Green movement isn’t buying it. And without them on board, von der Leyen’s commitments to tackling climate change are likely to end up being just more hot air…

    Von der Leyen did promise to introduce a so-called “carbon border tax,” a device that would let the EU neutralize the advantage of countries where manufacturers profit from cheaper, but dirtier, energy. Such a tax would have the capacity to grow into a potent tool of trade policy, as the EU uses its market size to pressure trading partners into accepting more stringent climate change policies.
    That would be a significant change from the free trade deal Europe just signed with the Mercosur bloc of south American countries, whose environmental commitments were limited to unenforceable promises on reducing emissions and deforestation…

    “For the Greens, it is of utmost importance that the carbon border tax is introduced as a replacement of free emission allowances,” the party’s climate spokesman Bas Eickhout told Fortune in an email. “Otherwise we protect our industry doubly, which is unfair, ineffective, and goes against WTO-rules and the ‘Polluter Pays’ principle.”…

    The vote result exposes the Greens’ lack of leverage: although they were among the biggest winners in May’s elections, they still have only 10% of the seats in the chamber. Moreover, the more ambitious climate goals of the parliament where they sit have already been rejected once by the EU Council, which represents the member states’ governments.
    Further obstinacy may result in von der Leyen drafting a grandly dressed-up, but essentially toothless package, knowing that she can muster support from other corners more interested in safeguarding the interests of industry and agriculture…
    https://fortune.com/2019/07/18/europe-climate-change-green-deal/

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    Another Ian

    “Another “Ship Of Fools” Runs Into 10-foot-Thick Ice”

    https://www.iceagenow.info/another-ship-of-fools-runs-into-10-foot-thick-ice/

    Via a comment at Chiefio

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “EU Extracts Billions More from UK with ‘Eye-popping’ 20 Per Cent Increase to Budget Contribution”

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/07/22/eu-extracts-eye-popping-20-per-cent-rise-budget-payments-uk/

    Looks like the EU needs a new reader of the tea leaves

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