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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 8.9 out of 10 based on 27 ratings

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460 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Sleep is sometimes an illusion of rest and as such my dreams of sleep are just that.

    At one time not long ago during what I saw as darker times for the sceptical side of Climate Change (CAGW) one of the prevailing concerns was that the scientists who were sceptics and most qualified to comment on the failings of the CAGW hypothesis would not live long enough to help fighting for true scientific integrity, this was especially so after the passing of people like Bob Carter and John Daly.

    However time will always accompany change and with the political shift in some countries an opportunity has opened for the reformation of societal values that brought great wealth, freedom and quality of life for so many, and where once the fears of losing our best to time has turned to hope let’s not forget the passion for truth that burns in the hearts of the old is there now in the words, thoughts and posts of the equally gifted through parliaments press and blogs such as this.

    413

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Y,
      You’ll just love this:

      http://www.smh.com.au/comment/we-can-save-our-minds-by-saving-the-world-20190117-p50rye.html?btis

         By Caitlin Fitzsimmons.   Supporting consensus in her assessment of science!

      ” For some time I’ve had a policy not to debate the existence of human-induced climate change, especially not with strangers on the internet.
      In my experience the only people still in doubt are not the type to be persuaded by facts. If you present evidence, they’ll simply attack the credibility of the source and insult you for believing it.
      My position as a journalist is simple. When the scientific community has genuine debate, I’ll report the evidence and counter-evidence and various viewpoints. When there is near consensus, I’ll regard the science as settled until such time as that changes. ”

      Great science commentary?? And I think she forgot to add: “And I’ll suppress any reporting of possible genuine debate”.

      Cheers,
      Dave B

      294

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Well, the only people still in doubt are those who look for evidence.

        And we’re a dying breed.

        182

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Roy, i predict a renaissance in real science. When society collapses from lack of supporting solid science, people will want stuff that works, not CAGW voodoo and witchdoctoring.

          An african Christian Missionary ( ex- South African army ) told me how when a natural event kills a villager in a village, the witchdoctor goes and sways and mumbles and points out the usually the wealthiset man in the village as to blame, who is then killed and his wealth distributed between the chief and the witchdoctor.

          Sound familiar?

          192

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Apparently looking for actual evidence is grounds for a red thumb. Yet I think if a doctor told our red thumb bomber he had cancer he would want to see the evidence, don’t you think?

          112

          • #
            OrignalSteve

            I think much of the red thumb traffic is pavlovian….

            That and its school holidays…boredom kicks in the with kiddies…..

            82

            • #
              AndyG55

              “is pavlovian”

              Yep, I have them trained well :-)

              32

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              pavlovian

              Maybe that’s why those red thumbs sorta drool down the screen. Pavlov’s dogs (actually their severed heads) salivated on cue and the red thumbs magically appear on cue.

              I wonder if we can learn anything from that. Maybe we need to put a bib on our bored student population or demand that they act like adults. Then there’s AndyG55…

              Oh! Hi Andy. I didn’t see you lurking there.

              01

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Yes thanks Dave and this highlights my points above, if Ms Fitzsimmons was a journalist of any sort she would have discovered in 2018,

        Tasmania’s shellfish aquaculture and wild-catch
        commercial fisheries employ 1,091 or more people
        to harvest 8,364 tonnes of food each year. In
        addition, 92,000 Tasmanians and 42,000 tourists go
        fishing in Tasmanian waters each year.

        Also the decline in the commercial fishing workforce might be because of the margin killing over inflated government fishing licences and red tape imposed on boat owners and companies, my point was not to give Ms Fitzsimmons and the thousands more like her any heed but the brave few that can and are making an impact globally, think of the recent possibility of Peta Credlin getting into parliament and confronting the selfish lot of them with grpies from the people, the public would love it.

        173

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Is this a covert way of driving farmers off the land?

          Should we rename Queensland to New Zimbabwe?

          https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-01-20/night-time-power-cuts-frustrate-cane-farmers-irrigation/10730266

          “Months of unexplained night-time power outages in Queensland’s Isis district, around Childers, have left farmers, already struggling with high electricity and water prices, unable to reliably irrigate crops in the crucial summer period.

          The outages have exclusively affected the irrigation pumps in the region’s key agricultural sector causing them to shut down without warning, causing major crop and financial losses.

          Widespread coverage of a power outage that caused the Brisbane Heat’s Big Bash cricket match against the Sydney Thunder to be abandoned at Brisbane’s Gabba last Thursday night prompted the growers to vent their frustration.

          Farnsfield cane and peanut farmer Peter Russo said the region’s growers have been left frustrated in the absence of a solution.

          “The irony of this is there’s a game of cricket on in Brisbane and, hang on, the growers here are in agriculture and who’s looking after us?” he said.”

          “We’ve spent a lot of money on chemicals and protection for our peanut crop especially. But not only that, our sugar crop, which is the biggest part of this district, this is when it’s vitally important that it needs irrigation.

          “We have the irrigation systems available, the water is there, and then the power cuts off.”

          140

      • #
        Jonesy

        When there is near< consensus

        …now, that is an interesting play on words. This one is for turning.

        40

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Incompetent ! Should be sacked as she is not doing her job professionally. But it’s Fairfax so that will not happen

        121

        • #
          sophocles

          Bill In Oz @ 1.1.4 Calls Caitlin Fitzsimmons

          Incompetent !

          Yes, she is, but not according to too many other people. She believes in a `Scientific Consensus,‘ which we know is an outright myth, and she believes that the `science is settled,‘ a second outright myth.

          Ergo: she is a Science Denier, who believes in Witchcraft. Seventeenth Century stuff.

          The science is never settled:
          - the scientific investigation into the cause(s) of tropical cyclones culminated in the research discovering they were caused by the Solar Wind. That paper was only published last month—December 2018—but you can track it’s “footprints” through the literature over the last eight years as the link between solar activity and these big storms went from being noticed to fully investigated and now, finally `It’s the Sun Stupid‘ has been found and documented.

          - the causes of other severe weather are being stalked and, from what is in the literature at present, it won’t be long before it’s all nailed down and weather forecasting will take yet another big step forward.

          - recent research has finally made it possible to reasonably accurately predict large (M 6 and above) deep earthquakes. You can now download an App onto your smartphone to tell you “where and when the earth will move for you.”

          Volcanoes are susceptible: high levels of secondary cosmic rays (and GCRs are at the highest level now they have ever been measured at since the start of the space era) are ground penetrant and are now known to heat some types of magma. Uh oh. Is it just coincidence that some of the planet’s super volcanoes have started to grumble and stir these last few years? All in this last geological ` blink of an eye?’ And other volcanoes are waking up and doing their thing after long years of dormancy. Maybe, or maybe not. This is one part of the literature I haven’t had time to go hunting in. Yet.

          The planet’s magnetic poles started to go crazy two decades ago and are now dancing all around the globe. My forty year old, once `trusty’ magnetic compass is no longer reliable. At the rate the poles are moving, I have to check the current magnetic deviation almost monthly to be able to use if for navigation. GPS does that all for us. It’s updated regularly. It used to be every fifth year but they had to bring it forward to the end of last year because of the increasing rate of change. And we wonder why the weather is going silly? Weather is electrically (through the Sun/Earth electric connection and the global currents in the high atmosphere) and magnetically affected.

          What? You didn’t realise that wherever you have moving electric charge—an electric current—you have a changing/moving magnetic field? And Vice Versa. Or had you forgotten? This mud ball, Planet Earth, rotates, so it is always moving.
          That part of the science of Electromagnetism, Caitlin Fitzsimmons, is so well known (or it should be) it could be said to be ‘consensual’. But there is still an awful lot happening over our heads which is still “over our heads” in every sense, and we are still learning.

          Remember when lightning sprites were first officially discovered? Aircraft pilots had known of them from the Second World War. They had seen them but they weren’t believed. The scientists then needed their noses rubbed in it before getting off their chuffs and doing some serious investigation. And what did they discover? Those barmy fly boys were not suffering from altitude fever and seeing things; They were Right! It took nearly forty years for science to update its Settled state. We’ve learned a lot since then but the science of the electromagnetic atmosphere isn’t complete yet, not by a long way.

          If you have followed me this far, you can see that both of Dearest Caitlin’s cherished mythological beliefs are just that.
          So, Dearest Infant Caitlin Fitzsimmons, you should toss your `Magic Spells’ out the window. They’re Useless. The science is Never settled and nor is there a Consensus.

          (She won’t. Like all Consensual Science Deniers, she will cling to her Magic beliefs forever.)

          140

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        “..When there is near consensus, I’ll regard the science as settled until such time as that changes. ” near consensus , thats it as long as its ‘near’ .. meaningless and totally contradictory to ‘if the data disproves your theory..its wrong!’ period. She displays a total ignorance of any scientific principle.
        Caitlin Fitzsimmons, science ISNT about consensus. Consensus isnt science. No theory is proved it is only disproved, such as ‘human caused climate change’.

        110

      • #
        MudCrab

        My position as a journalist is simple.

        Well yes, Miss Caitlin. Your position is that YOU now what is best for us and YOU will tell us what we need to know.

        Sad thing is I am not sure Miss Caitlin is self aware enough to understand that media is a business and exists to make money. Her job isn’t to write the ‘truth’ (whatever that is) but to write things her readers are willing and happy to pay for. If your paying readers are willing to pay for reports on how the earth is flat then she had better start pumping out 1500 words a day on the new expedition to breach the perimeter ice wall or start looking for a new job.

        Honestly asking the media for ‘The Truth’ is the same as asking a politician for voting advice.

        50

  • #

    Can’t add much to that, Yonnie. Well said, but I’m a little more pessimistic. There seems to be the same sense of inevitability of impending conflict that prevailed before the two world wars. Having read many tomes on the history of the lead-up to these wars, including Churchill’s 5-volume The Second World War and Hastings’ Catastrophe: Europe goes to War 1914, there is a certain familiarity to me; events as described then seem similar to now. Hard to describe.

    But, just as they found in 1914 and in 1939-45 man’s ingenuity in inventing ever-better industrial-scale killing machines didn’t put the so-called leaders off introducing us to yet another conflagration.

    Thinking such things doesn’t help with the sleep either.

    181

    • #
      PeterS

      You are right. History repeats. I’m a realist. Those who keep saying it’s different this time always end up with mud on their face. The Wets as we know it is definitely declining and at some point in the not too distant future it will collapse. The signs are all there; financial, social, political, etc..

      181

      • #
        sophocles

        The Wets as we know it is definitely declining and at some point in the not too distant future it will collapse.

        It’s under direct attack, aided and abetted by `Useful Idiots.’ Their own politicians. If you look you can see that all the Climate Change garbage—and the UN—is anti all the nations which were/are part of the Western bloc.
        Why do the UK, North America, Europe and Oceania have to destroy all their industry, and shut down their economies while the rest of the world doesn’t?
        Why is everything always `anti-western?’ It’s so obvious …

        264

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          You cant have the toxin of socialism if as a nation you can defend your self from the UN….

          121

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            If you want to understand the New Age religion and how all this CAGW nonsense is driven by it, read this article, it sums it up very well

            https://canadafreepress.com/article/the-real-united-nations

            “Curtis Dall was criticized for his belief that sinister forces manipulated his father-in-law ( Rooseveldt) in the service of the Godless Dictatorship of a One-World-Super-State. But, who can deny today that there is a globalist movement underway or that the 10 Points of Alice Bailey have already been achieved?

            Needless to say, Lucis Trust is working hard with the United Nations towards promoting a globalist ideology. Besides the United Nations, the Lucis Trust also sponsors other organizations like Greenpeace International, Greenpeace USA, Amnesty International, and UNICEF.

            Ms. Bailey wanted a New World Order and a One World Religion and she had a strategy. The most important aspect of New Age teaching is the targeting of children. Alice Bailey said when you are changing a nation, don’t bother with the old people, they are too stuck in the old traditions, they will not change, but GO FOR THE CHILDREN and the Church. That is what she did and what the Lucis Trust is currently doing.

            “Whatever CHANGE you succeed in implementing, get the church to endorse it. Get the church to officially cede ground.” – Alice Bailey”

            20

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘History repeats.’

        Not necessarily, the UN and European Union were created to avoid WW3. So far so good.

        65

        • #
          Sambar

          Yep, it’s the last four words. I keep telling the kids I will live for ever. So far, so good.

          150

        • #
        • #
          Another Ian

          “‘History repeats.’”

          Quote I saw recently doubts this but allows that it often rhymes

          30

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Except for these wars EG : Korea, Vietnam, Algeria, Indonesia ( confrontasi ) Cambodia, India & Pakistan ( 3 rounds so far ) Bangladesh, Congo/Zaire ( numerous ) Angola, Mozanbique, Somalia,South Sudan, Cyprus, Yugloslavia ( numerous) Ukraine,,,, etc etc…

          90

          • #
            el gordo

            Small wars, often long dragged out, have managed to keep a lid on things.

            Then there is the law of unintended consequences. IfTony Blair hadn’t stirred up revolt in Syria, sending in agents to depose a despot, it would be a safer world.

            63

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          I do wonder….Trump has given the NWO boys a bloody nose so far, they may decide to remove him via their Democratic/Establishment lap dogs. Mattis was removed as he appears to be a globalist.

          The NWO seem to favour war, so if Trump gets in their way…..well the evil in their veins is plentiful…

          60

          • #
            PeterS

            Sadly Trump may be just a small annoyance to the globalists. He is just one person with many against him even within his own party. I fail to see how he can put a complete stop on the globalist grand plan. I wish he could but one has to face reality.

            91

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              Well lets kick the can down the road a bit and musing out loud – If Trump is a mere speed bump on the road for the globalists, does that mean the “Hand of Madness” has gripped the earth, which means slavery and death for those who would resist the elite?

              If appears what sits behind it all is a New Age pagan religion with elements of nazism in it, a religion that appears to be driving the whole crazy mess….with the UN at its core, and global communism its aim. Now consider all the worlds govts funding and fawning at the UNs feet. Does this mean most of the worlds govts are Collaborators?

              So what happens then – if we believe the New Age writings, and a slaughter of 90% of the worlds population to appear their false gods occurs, What then? a new Dark Age? Of what benefit is it?
              So madmen can run the world?

              I consider from a Christian perspective, we could consider that should this trajectory continue, is this indeed the countdown to the rise of the Anti Christ and the 2nd Coming of Jesus? Its getting hard to discount the extrardinary every day….

              101

              • #
                PeterS

                Yes I believe that is so too. The timing is the only unknown. After all Trump is not the Messiah, and this world needs the return of the one and only true Messiah to avoid the path to self-destruction and annihilation.

                61

    • #
      Hanrahan

      I believe the American Civil War is more immediately critical. I never knew a nation could become so deeply divided as the US is today for no real reason. The demorats’ sole purpose seems to be to bring the US down – and then the world.

      If Trump is beaten he will not simply be sent to pasture as have previous Presidents, he and his family will be ruined financially, probably tried and possibly executed. It’s hard not to be pessimistic, sorry. The US is the most corrupt nation on earth, forget those countries where the corruption is there for all to see. To be the most corrupt AND the most powerful is a dangerous mix.

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      • #
        PeterS

        The signs are there showing the US is in the early stages of the collapse mode. That means things will accelerate to the downside after Trump is removed, loses office in the next election or when his second term ends, unless of course he is replaced by someone like him, which is highly unlikely. The deep-state/MSM alliance will make sure the next President is far more to their liking although such a President will most likely turn on the MSM and turn it into an even more evil force against the people.

        164

  • #
    Tim Spence

    Where does water come from? Not the water that’s supposed to arive from Comets, Asteroids and Metiorites, that water is like heavy water with a different composition, for example deuterium + oxygen, not the same stuff as same H2O but more like the water of Jupiter’s Moons.

    Any explanation?

    30

    • #
      PeterS

      There are several explanations. It’s a matter of faith as to which one any person wants to believe.

      80

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      H2O was part of the original mix of stuff which went to make up the planet Earth. And there is an awful lot of it still below the planet’s surface..Not just in the oceans and in the atmosphere..

      50

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        And in Jupiter’s moons, esp Europa.

        Comment on heavy water, that is just when the hydrogen atoms in the water have an extra neutron.
        (deuterium oxide, 2H2O, D2O) is a form of water that contains a larger than normal amount of the hydrogen isotope deuterium (2H or D, also known as heavy hydrogen), Also heavier than normal water, slightly different properties.

        20

    • #
      Leo Morgan

      It’s far easier to change judgements in the face of new evidence than it is to change beliefs. That’s why in In science, one should make a judgement on the basis of the evidence, rather than hold a belief.

      You ask- what is the origin of water? The evidence is abundant. Our radio telescopes tell us Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, and Oxygen is the third most abundant. We know, when the two elements encounter each other, they generally undergo an exothermic reaction. The observed abundance of Hydroxyl radicals (HO, Hydrogen and a single Oxygen atom) in the Universe matches what theory predicts. When HO molecules meet another Hydrogen atom, they form H20.

      That happens regardless of which isotope of Hydrogen the oxygen atoms meet.

      The water from Comets, Asteroids and Meteorites, and the water of Jupiter’s Moons is still H2O, regardless of the isotopes of Hydrogen within it. But even then, the vast majority of atoms are identical to that on Earth- out of 6420 atoms of normal Hydrogen, AKA Protium, in water one atom will be in an alternate isotopic form of Deuterium or Tritium. In the extreme case of Saturn’s moon Phoebe, instead of 6419 atoms out of 6420 containing Protium, it’s 6415 out of 6420, a difference that makes no practical difference.

      @Tim Spence, I gained the idea that you were trying to lead up to a point with your question. What’s your answer to the question you asked, and, if there was a point you were leading up to, what is that point?

      30

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    At last a glimmer of common sense. In the Weekend Australian….

    “Power baron Trevor St Baker has revealed a $6 billion China-backed plan to develop Australia’s first high-efficiency, low-emissions coal plants in Victoria and NSW and a pumped hydro facility in South Australia in response to the federal government’s call for more “fair dinkum” baseload generation.

    The centrepiece of Mr St Baker’s proposal is a 1300MW coal-fired plant costing $3bn-$4bn and comprising two 660MW units. It would be built in Victoria’s Latrobe Valley at the site of the former 1600MW Hazelwood plant
    In NSW a $2bn HELE coal plant with 660MW capacity is planned. This could either be built at AGL’s Liddell facility in the Hunter Valley, or at the site of the old Vales Point A power station, next to the 1320MW plant Vales Point B facility owned by Mr St Baker and billionaire Brian Flannery’s Sunset Power.
    In South Australia a $500 million, 240MW Goat Hill pumped hydro project near Port Augusta would also be developed to balance out what Mr St Baker describes as the “overbuild” of solar and wind capacity in the state.”

    I can’t see AGL cooperating over Liddell and the screams from the Green Gullibles will be deafening. They won’t be using China as an example of virtuous renewables anymore.

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    • #
      • #
        Dennis

        Definitely check these headlines out ….

        https://reneweconomy.com.au

        81

        • #
          RickWill

          This is a comment from that link:

          “If you want electric service, you’re going to have to find a different way to structure the system because no utility will survive. That’s the lesson here,” he said in comments on PG&E.

          I recognised long ago that grids were dead economically once they permitted intermittent power generators to connect. South Australia provides the perfect example. The benefits of scale with intermittents is minute so it only makes sense for distributed intermittent generation at the load to reduce the cost of transmission from remote sites.

          Intermittent generation has reached the scale where it is having enormous adverse impact on grid pricing. That is forcing consumers to make their own. That means grid prices just keep going up as volume declines but costs go up to handle all the additional distributed generation.

          The one guarantee in all this is that grid power will keep increasing in price.

          150

      • #
        robert rosicka

        A quote from your link Peter -

        “On the business front, wholesale prices are now falling as new renewable generation grows”

        This has happened no where on earth that I’ve seen and commonsense dictates it can never happen .
        I think the crux of the story is about one company through lobbying trying to gain an advantage for its business , both sides do this so nothing to see here .

        181

    • #
      Dennis

      AGL Ltd paid nothing for Liddell Power Station which was included in the sale of Bayswater Power Station which is located nearby, both sharing a coal mine and water storage.

      As Liddell was a NSW Government taxpayer owned asset AGL should not be allowed to get in the way, as they did when Alinta made an offer for it.

      181

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      My point being that here is a (no cost to the Government) plan for boosting electricity supply. Likely to be better received by the public than the current (dithering to a crisis) plan.
      RE reneweconomy – sure he makes money. He foresaw the result of pushing renewables before there was any storage and went into conventional generation, and it paid off.
      And will reneweconomy be against the Goat Hill project? Good for renewables, and if the 2 “big batteries” installed in SA can make lots of money, what will a project roughly double the size do?

      90

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Yeah, he picked up Vales Point for a song, much like AGL with Liddell and Bayswater. Good move, very similar to Ian Macdonald selling coal licences to his mates. Now he’s promoting new generation capacity, but has not really locked in funding. Interesting times!

        80

        • #
          el gordo

          The funding is coming from Asia, but not the China Infrastructure Bank.

          30

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          What similarity to corruption do you see?
          And if he can’t get local funding, where does he go? Once he has approval there will be funding available, especially if we have some blackouts this summer. As seems likely if the NSW government is concerned enough to cut down on air-conditioning (to lower ranks only, of course).

          90

  • #
    Dennis

    The NSW Government email asking staff to turn air conditioning off or to a lower setting, power shortage …

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2019/01/nsw-government-email-asking-staff-to-switch-things-off-because-the-power-grid-cant-cope.html

    120

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    Before coming to WE Unthreaded I put up some comments on the Coffee thread which in some sense reflect the feelings I now find here.

    Serious discomfort about the world’s progress is being expressed.

    On a more localised scale, my comments were basically about my concern that a pattern of comment was evident in the previous few threads that was disturbing.

    Responses triggered by that feeling of concern are on that thread.

    http://joannenova.com.au/2019/01/climate-change-will-make-coffee-extinct-or-something-like-that/#comment-2095796

    And

    http://joannenova.com.au/2019/01/climate-change-will-make-coffee-extinct-or-something-like-that/#comment-2095846

    If memory serves correctly, the 604 comments on the Professor Tsonis thread were bulked out by a large number of comments the I would describe as attack, followed by comment that labeled them as such.

    Then I come to this thread and find a very inspirational comment by Yonnie and supporting comments.

    We have direction again.

    KK

    123

  • #
    Mark M

    It’s toast Jim, but not as we know it …

    2008: “The Arctic is the first tipping point and it’s occurring exactly the way we said it would.”

    Hansen, echoing work by other scientists, said that in five to 10 years, the Arctic will be free of sea ice in the summer.”

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nasa-climate-scientist-says-were-toast/

    > As 2018 came to a close, Arctic sea ice extent was tracking at its third lowest level in the satellite record …

    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

    Lowest ever? It should be gone.

    Accountability please for the grandfather.

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    • #
      yarpos

      What gets me is, even if it was ice free in the summer, SO WHAT? that is not an unprecedented event. Nor is the northe west passage being open.

      https://www.navalhistory.org/2011/08/11/uss-skate-ssn-578-becomes-the-first-submarine-to-surface-at-the-north-pole

      110

      • #
        TdeF

        It is all based on two false premises. That melting ice is a problem. That all years are the same.

        First fantasy problem? Drowning world? Science fact. If all the sea ice melts the sea does not rise. If it melts more than usual, it just means a warm year or few years. Good. Especially for shipping or fishing. Consider that all the ice across Europe, Canada, Siberia, Japan also melts. No cities drown.

        Secondly, it is not in any way significant. Unlike the South Pole, the North pole is a point where the slightest change is dramatic. The average summer temperature is a warm 0C. The North Pole record is a balmy +12C. So a summer average of -0.1C means a lot more ice and an average of +0.1C means a lot less ice. So what?

        Two of the coldest years were 1812 and 1943, the years of the French invasion of Russia and the German battle of Stalingrad. We know that some years are hotter than others, and some much colder. The Russians were very lucky neither dictator understood that. Nor do the Greens.

        So if the whole of Canada and Siberia is clear of ice and snow in mid summer, great. That’s normal.
        If the adjacent sea is clear of ice, it’s the end of the world? No.

        As for the value of melting ice. Sure the white polar bears have to sit out the summer hungry and on brown dirt but there is a massive migration of birds, seals, whales, bears, foxes,caribou to enjoy all the amazing food for a few months as the place blooms. If we somehow stopped the melting of ice, it would be a disaster for much life on earth.

        Plus the Polar bears live on land in summer, not ice. They hunt on ice only in winter. Their first cousins the brown bears sleep through the winter. Polar bears also have black skin but translucent fur. These are simply opportunistic adaptions, not anyone’s fault. Many arctic animals also have white fur. Foxes, owls, ermines and many more. Do not cuddle any of them.

        161

  • #
    Sceptical Sam

    Emeritus Professor Ian Plimer wins in “The Australian”.

    Following Ian Plimer’s incisive piece in Thursday’s “The Australian” debunking the 97% fabrication, it came as no surprise to see the effete attempt by none other than John Cook trying to counter it by way of a letter to the Editor in Saturday’s “Weekend Australian”.

    Interestingly, Cook’s feeble attempt was outnumbered by other letter writers supporting Ian Plimer’s analysis. Over Friday and Saturday there were eleven letters in total, one of which was from Cook.

    That makes Cook a mere 9.1% of the total. So much for his consensus.

    Cook demonstrates yet again the abject poverty of the warmists’ science. While he uses the scientific jargon it’s unfortunate that he doesn’t know what it means.

    Replication? According to Cook there are “many studies replicating the scientific consensus”. However, not one of them has been replicated as far as I can find. All are grossly unscientific. Propaganda? Yes. Science? Not a chance.

    Some 31,000 American scientists agree with Ian Plimer; and disagree with Cook:
    http://www.oism.org/pproject/

    And, if you ever wondered where you could find a classic, real-world, example of the psychological term “Projection” in action, just read the last sentence in Cook’s missive. Perfect. It could be very profitably be used in the psych department at UWA, as an Alumni’s contribution to students’ course-work.

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      Peter Fitzroy

      OISM signatories represent a small fraction (~0.3%) of all science graduates, even when we use the OISM’s own definition of a scientist.

      However, it’s entirely reasonable to ask whether a veterinarian or forestry manager or electrical engineer should qualify as a scientist. If we remove all the engineers, medical professionals, computer scientists, and mathematicians, then the 31,478 “scientists” turn into 13,245 actual scientists.

      For climate science
      Compare the number of atmospheric scientists, climatologists, ocean scientists, and meteorologists who signed this petition to the number of members of the various professional organizations. For example, the American Geophysical Union (AGU) has over 55,000 members, of which over 7,200 claim that atmospheric sciences is their primary field. The OISM claims 152 atmospheric scientists. Compared to the atmospheric scientist membership in the AGU, the OISM signatories are only 2.1%, and this estimate is high given the fact that the AGU does not claim all atmospheric scientists as members.

      Also the OISM survey is 10 years old. It could not be considered as current.

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      • #
        robert rosicka

        Not sure how some of those occupations have relevance Peter but I do get your point and agree that some fields of study can contribute to this debate that aren’t necessarily directly involved in climate science .

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      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        However, it’s entirely reasonable to ask whether a veterinarian or forestry manager or electrical engineer should qualify as a scientist.

        Grab a Flannel. Quick!

        The warmist arrogance is dripping onto the carpet and warming the world.

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        • #
          yarpos

          I think he is quite correct really, he should actually examine the credentials of some of the biggest mouthpieces like Gore and Flannery.

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          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Of course.

            But will he?

            Hypocrisy is one of their well established traits.

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            • #
              OriginalSteve

              In a court of law, anecdotal evidence is permitted. As such, in the debate of science, data should be submitted to be examined in the public space. What is to be feared from solid science?

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      • #
        C. Paul Barreira

        Veterinarians and some dentists, also, like to present themselves as “Doctor”, either copying the polite forms long since given to medical practitioners, or making a questionable suggestion of having completed and had examined a significant body of research by higher degree. Either way, standards continue to collapse.

        The comments in #1 above are yet another example of the death of our civilisation. And there’s also Jo’s post of just two days ago: “Fake science on fake fish from James Cook Uni?”—just one of many that appear around the globe, pretty much daily.

        We even have one web-site dedicated to this problem: Retraction Watch.

        The New Atlantis has covered the issue from several angles but see, especially, “Saving Science“, by Daniel Sarewitz.

        And so it goes, on and on and on.

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        • #
          TdeF

          Doctor is a social term, usually relating to the practice of medicine. The Doctorate is a PhD which used to be very rare, a very long course and with a remarkably high failure rate. Far worse, after most of a decade as a student it guaranteed no job at all, no salary, no position. Michael Mann could not complete a PhD in physics, so he switched to tree rings and a hockey stick to make his fame and fortune.

          In fact it was extremely hard to even qualify for a place in a PhD course. First class honours were essential but often not sufficient. A score of people graduated as PhD from a large university each year.

          I went to a graduation at RMIT recently. 200 PhDs. One in studying loading of trucks. Others were in areas which seriously question the academic merit of such a qualification.

          So the term is being abused greatly as the new degree factories churn out people as doctor. The reference to practicing dentists and veterinarians as doctor has much more merit.

          As for Doctor Flannery. Mammologist? Really? Al Gore and Tim Flannery have something in common though, neither have any formal science training as both did their degrees in English. Gore’s essay was on the impact of television in the election of Richard Nixon. Now Gore has a Nobel Peace Prize in Climate? How does that even make sense?

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          • #
            Richard Ilfeld

            Yup.
            Having earned such a title, I used it only thrice; in job applications to teach. (A tendency I have recovered from after recovering from a serious case of facultyloungeitis).
            Sort of like being a Senator, or MP, one quickly discovers that the reaction of respect is a false front covering contempt.
            Spend much time in the company of those who depend on titles, rather than accomplishment, and the contempt is understandable.
            No one in this forum will be shocked that the biggest surprise to me in academia was the rampant innumeracy. With later observation, this seems essential to much of the leftist gestalt.

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            • #
              Another Ian

              Only two places where I noticed that having a “piled higher and deeper” got attention were overseas consulting and the legal profession

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          I noticed here in AU dentists/vets call themselves doctors, not in NZ nor are vets. Surgeons are supposed to be called Mr (more qualified than a plain medico GP) using the traditional British medical system. Amerika everybody is a ‘doctor’ regardless of degree!!

          10

      • #
        Jonesy

        Logic fails me! Peter, the task of an engineer is to make science work. Engineers (except maybe EA Qld) deal in absolutes, not theories. Engineers understand the imperative of repeatable experimentation, publishing results and critical observation..how else would you expect an engineer to trust tables produced for the quality and strength of steel.

        The first real argument I saw against the CAGW meam was an aeronautical engineer in the US. This guy is the best at cutting edge aerodynamics. He is Burt Rutan. He argued the science and proved his argument by using science not an opinion of the science. Note the date. Note the data.

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        • #
          PADRE

          Jonesy, thanks for the link to Burt Roten. Much of the information he gives has appeared elsewhere but he sets it out very methodically and logically. When you read it you can see why our politicians are so easily duped by the CAGW brigade. I wonder how many of them would even be prepared to sit down and even try to comprehend it? Quite clearly even, or especially, journalists in the MSM are unable or unwilling to try to come to grips with it!

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        • #
          TdeF

          Also the figure he gives of man released CO2 being 2.5% of the total is about right. That figure alone destroys and argument of man made Global Warming, regardless of the effects of CO2. If we didn’t do it, we cannot fix it.

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          • #
            Serp

            That’s the key point for attacking decarbonization and it is always insufficiently emphasised; for every human induced carbon dioxide molecule there are thirty to forty from other sources beyond human control.

            And when we pop the crucial cui bono question the answer comes back unequivocally that, as so often, it’s the Money Men and here’s my favourite photo of two of Rothschild’s puppets.

            30

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              A picture tells a thousand words.

              New York is a great place to retire.

              When they’re finished I suspect that both would feel happier when they’re in New York City and anonymous.

              20

            • #
              TdeF

              More closely, Goldmann Sachs who brought the world the GFC, while making all the money on fake mortgages. Malcolm Turnbull was GM for Australia. Why did anyone think putting rich merchant bankers with a history of total self interest in charge of both Australia and France would not end in tears for everyone? Then we had the genius rich milkman Kevin Rudd as we head into 2020 without any direction from his vision. Plus that real champion of democracy for the people, head of COAG Malcolm Fraser who made modern Rhodesia what it is today. Zimbabwe, a destitute and starving military dictatorship.

              Beware of rich bankers and politicians named Malcolm.

              40

        • #

          Great link Jonesy, a very concise and well argued summary.
          My favorite quote:
          “Manmade global warming is over. It existed only in the
          minds of grant-seeking scientists and academics, ratingsobsessed
          media and opportunistic eco/political-activists”.
          Also the section on recommendations is very good, the airliner safety argument. Quite valid.
          [Recognize that, in terms of cost and human lives, the
          Government efforts to constrain use and increase the cost of
          energy are orders of magnitude more important than the
          certification of a new airliner.
          • We cannot assure airline public safety by using a computer
          model to predict airline safety; we must do extensive testing
          under real conditions and pay attention to all the results.
          • Require an engineering task as rigid as the certification of an
          airliner. Apply that task to the „theory of climate modification
          by man‟. Mandate that „engineering certification‟ be done
          before governments can impose taxes, fees or regulations to
          constrain our use of any product to fuel our energy needs.
          • Engineers do listen to scientists and use their work to help
          them plan the testing/validation needed to complete their
          certification goals. However, using scientists to direct airliner
          certification, would be as disastrous as scientists proposing
          theories to direct National or World energy policy.

          Yet here we are in Australia, multiple crash test dummy states overseeing the demolition of the great legacy of the previous generation: cheap reliable electricity.

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          • #
            TdeF

            Cheap, reliable and plentiful. The 1990s sell off also removed the annual Union strikes which brought the country to its knees. However the Unions have fought back and now want them all destroyed. You wonder why?

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      • #
        el gordo

        Engineers and mathematicians are not scientists, but I put them on a par.

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          RickWill

          On a par – not really; broadly engineers are doers scientists are dreamers.

          The majority of engineers work in commercial reality where the results of their work produce a commercial return. They navigate the least cost path to an effective result – pragmatic problem solvers.

          The majority of scientist work in government funded programs or academia. Their work has tenuous links to commercial return – sometimes no return, rarely some significant new knowledge, often just repetitive.

          This provides more insight:
          https://www.engineering.com/DesignerEdge/DesignerEdgeArticles/ArticleID/15885/The-Difference-Between-Science-and-Engineering.aspx

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          • #
            Graeme No.3

            To quote a Professor of (Civil) Engineering.

            Anyone can build a bridge, but an engineer has to build one that stays up.

            On that basis Peter Fitzroy’s scientists have failed engineering. Their theory has fallen down (although they’ve tried to prop it up with hockey sticks).

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              Peter Fitzroy

              Bit of false equivalence here Graeme No 3. A genius engineer will be win renown for his excellence in engineering. The same applies to any expert working in their field of expertise. Can you cross disciplines though? Would you ask a Bradfield about brain surgery, or Einstein about biology?

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              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Would you ask a wombat expert to explain the absence of the hot-spot?

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Well, he is entitled to his opinion, would I rate it highly? No I would not.

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              • #
                el gordo

                ‘Flannery is an Australian mammalogist, palaeontologist, environmentalist, conservationist, explorer, and public scientist.’ wiki

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              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Peter Fitzroy:

                You miss the point. ALL ENGINEERS who build a bridge must have it stay up (or they can be prosecuted). Climatologists can make all sorts of claims without penalty, no matter how ridiculous or unlikely they are.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                Would you ask an AGW troll to provide empirical evidence of warming by enhanced atmospheric CO2.??

                Basically ZERO clue about your own subject, like most AGW apostles.

                Seem an area they are totally incapable of. Yet here you are, pfutz.

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        • #
          sophocles

          If they have earned a post-graduate degree, Masters or Ph.D, they are scientists. They may not be practising in a field generally regarded as a `science,’ but make no mistake: they are scientists. Engineers especially.

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          I find many junior engineers, grads in the last 10-20 years, dont know physics well or mathematics, just the basics.

          40

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Peter, are you suggesting there is no computer science, and mathematics involved in computer models and they are all you have beyond the feeble experiment with CO2.

        Do you not believe the intellects who taught graduate “climate scientists” have any right to critique?

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Everyone has a right to critique, Hanranan. But just as I would rate a medico critiquing cancer treatments, I would not rate the same medico on bridge building.

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          • #
            Hanrahan

            I think it behoves you to assure us that YOU are qualified to speak on the topic. If you can’t I will not accept your right to judge who is, or is not, qualified to do so.

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            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              I think you might be missing point.
              Anyone, even little old me, can hold an opinion, on any topic, and be able to talk about it. My credentials do not prevent that. Now you have the right to rate my opinions, which, in the context of this site, are usually downrated.
              As to your second point, all I have said is that I will rate an expert in their field on commentary relating to that field, I will downrate comments made outside their field. That is my perogative, and you or anyone else is free to apply their own rating. I’m definitely not forcing any judgement on anyone.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            Like rating an AGW troll on scientific knowledge.

            There is NONE.

            Found that evidence yet, pfutz???

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        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          So you accept Plimer’s critique of the false 97% fabrication then Fitz?

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            I accept his right to say it, and when talking geology he must be rated highly.

            I would take exception to “volcanic eruptions release more carbon dioxide (CO2) than human activity”, particularly when the American Geophysical Union, found that anthropogenic emissions of CO2 are 135 times larger than those from all volcanoes on Earth.

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            • #
              el gordo

              There is a debate going on about this, but I think its fair to say human induced CO2 is more abundant.

              As the science improves we are getting a clearer picture of ‘out gassing’ from dormant volcanoes and undersea volcanoes, which is narrowing the margin.

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              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Hi elgordo

                Have you seen any credible attempt to compare the two?

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              • #
              • #
                el gordo

                ‘Moreover, there are simply too many volcanoes to deny that the atmospheric concentration of the most erupted gas next to water is predominantly controlled by the balance or lack thereof between volcanic activity and photosynthesis.

                ‘Furthermore, there is simply no established volcanic CO2 fingerprint by which we may distinguish atmospheric proportions of anthropogenic and volcanogenic contributions. This leaves us with no empirical method by which we may attribute the 20th century rise in CO2 to human energy consumption.’

                Timothy Casey 2009

                02

            • #
              James Murphy

              The thing with geology is that it can cover many scientific disciplines. Take for example, a rock sample I have in my possession. It has been interpreted as a fossilised soil profile, and can be (very) roughly dated in the field (with some context) to pre-Proterozoic as it contains unweathered feldspars.

              I’m a geologist, not a soil scientist, nor a chemist, so does this mean that I am not able to interpret such rocks?

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              • #
                Peter C

                a fossilised soil profile,

                What is that?

                30

              • #
                James Murphy

                Soils have distinct horizons, this particular rock resembles what we would see as some B, mostly C horizon if we were to look at a current soil profile. Perhaps ‘preserved’ is a better word than ‘fossilised’.

                As a gross generality, feldspars weather to clays, and free oxygen helps with this. Thus, to preserve feldspars in a situation effectively exposed to the atmosphere, then one can assume this “soil” analogue had not yet turned into a rock (undergone diagenesis) while there was significant free oxygen in the air.

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            • #
              sophocles

              which, in the context of this site, are usually downrated.

              The context here has nothing to do with your downrating PF: it’s your junk content.
              Clean that up and you may be surprised …

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            • #
              sophocles

              While we’re speaking of junk content:
              PF thinks

              the American Geophysical Union, found that anthropogenic emissions of CO2 are 135 times larger than those from all volcanoes on Earth.

              I strongly suspect the USGS is a long way out of the ball park with that figure. I can tell you that there is one volcano, one as in 1, which just happens to contribute a mere 4% of all the emitted CO2 on this planet all on its own. And this volcano is not erupting.

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              • #
                theRealUniverse

                I saw the estimate from that recent Iceland eruption put out more than the whole planet in a few months.

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      • #
        Lewis p Buckingham

        One of the advantages of the vet. science course is ruthless selection against thinking sloppily.
        Statistical design as well as core sciences are taught and over examined.
        Concepts such as the null hypothesis, replication and repeatability are well versed.
        In fourth year any subject used be examined every term,the finals being made up of practicals,written as well as oral examination.If the faculty thought you should fail, then you failed.
        50% did so.
        In this context ‘climate science’needs a high bar to be a science.
        All it need do is be honest that chaotic systems are not predictable, that the GASTA models are deeply flawed and at the same time be prepared to debate the science rather than declaring its been settled.
        One of the chief ‘deniers’ in the Senate is a vet.
        Gore has a mission and Flannery is a Mammologist.
        Not that they are not concerned or do not think, the problem for the onlooker is they keep on being wrong about the
        outcomes in climate, but just ask us to continue belief.

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  • #
    robert rosicka

    Just watching the Don addressing the nation about the shutdown and the wall , I must say he is really nailing his point of view .

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    • #
      the adorable Gee Ayeeee

      isn’t it impossible not to nail your own point of view, so long as you speak honestly?

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    • #
      GD

      He was very impressive. Donald Trump could possibly be the greatest leader of the free world thus far.

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      • #

        Do you see the irony that you are lauding him as a leader of the free world on the basis of a speech about reducing people’s freedoms?

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        • #
          OrignalSteve

          You mean reducing peoples freedom to illegally walk into the USA and then on a whim kill the locals ( as happens frequently, but isnt published much in the left wing MSM for obvious reasons… ) …you mean that freedom?

          Solid border security is essential to the integrity of a nation – its the very basis of national soveriegnty.

          But such a thing is anathema to Socialists….and also becasue with porous borders, it allows the evil of human trafficing to take place easily, as happens a lot in europe. Greece & eastern europe a well known case in point….

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      • #
        Robert Swan

        Why is the President of the USA automatically bestowed with this “leader of the free world” title? Are we free or are we led? We can’t be both.

        I think just rating him as “President of the USA” should be good enough. Let the “free world” be free for a little longer.

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      • #
        sophocles

        Do you see the irony that you are lauding him as a leader of the free world on the basis of a speech about reducing people’s freedoms?

        So I’m free to walk onto your property any time I like, do what I like while I’m there, and leave when I like, GA? It’s my right?
        Is your property (assuming you own one) protected by fences? If so, then you are reducing my freedom to do what I want and go where I want esp. on your property.

        Silly GA.

        Every nation has the right to control who crosses their border, where they cross it and when. Setting such conditions for crossing their border is the right of the citizens of that nation. In what way does a border wall reduce their freedoms?

        A border wall along the US/Mexican border will reduce the freedom of Mexican criminals to rob, pillage and plunder the US and haul their loot away to Mexico. Once across the border, the US police have no power to pursue. It’s called National Sovereignty.
        It applies in reverse, too.

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  • #
    beowulf

    I came across a paper at Viv Forbes’ site comparing Sydney’s temperatures 1791 v. 2018. The graphs tell the story. Apart from the fact that there has been no change in overall temps in 230 years, the paper is most notable for that specific admission by the pro-AGW authors of another paper cited — Karoly, Gergis and Co.

    In their words “Remarkably, the records appear comparable with modern day measurements taken from Sydney Observatory Hill, displaying similar daily variability, a distinct seasonal cycle and considerable inter-annual variability.”

    The 1788-1791 daily records were taken by William Dawes 6 times per day on Observatory Hill from September 16th 1788 to December 6th 1791. Prior to that Dawes took his readings on board the Sirius anchored in Sydney Cove.

    It should be remembered that about 1790-91 was an El Nino period when the Sydney settlement — relying solely on the Tank Stream — sailed perilously close to running out of water. In 1790 the “tanks” were cut into the sandstone beside the creek to try to conserve a supply of drinking water from the almost non-existent flow.

    https://carbon-sense.com/2019/01/16/comparison-of-first-fleet-and-modern-temperatures/

    Backing up the records Dawes kept are anecdotal entries in the journal of Watkin Tench, a Captain of Marines with the First Fleet. Here’s Tench speaking of the Sydney heatwave a few miles inland at Rose Hill, February 1791:

    “An immense flight of bats driven before the wind, covered all the trees around the settlement, whence they every moment dropped dead or in a dying state, unable to endure longer the burning state of the atmosphere. Nor did the peroquettes [parrots], though tropical birds, bear it better. The ground was strewn with them in the same condition as the bats.”

    That excerpt is taken from the book “Watkin Tench – 1788” edited by none other than everyone’s favourite climate alarmist FLIM FLAM, but that was before he was a climate expert, so he can be forgiven his indiscretion.

    Apparently it got hot in the olden days too. We’ve seen Flying Fox kills in the last 10 years but no parrot kills that I am aware of, so I guess the heat is not as extreme now as in 1791. Birds have slightly more tolerance to high temps than do bats due to the birds’ inherently higher body temperature relative to mammals. From old farmers alive during the 1930s heatwaves, I also know of bird kills at that time in the Moree district NSW when tough old galahs dropped dead out of the trees in their hundreds. That critical bird mortality temperature has not been reached in modern times, whereas it was reached in 1791 and the 1930s.

    Would someone please tell the ABC.

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    • #
      Dennis

      Several years ago a neighbour allowed me to read the Centenary Issue of a newspaper from Kempsey NSW, just north of Port Macquarie and further inland.

      The special issue contained extracts from newspapers every year past that it was printed. Several droughts and a couple severe with reports of birds dropping from the sky apparently due to heat exhaustion. Heatwaves reaching 50C lasting days. Flooding rains and damaging floodwaters.

      The Sunburnt Country poem so describes.

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      • #
        beowulf

        Dorothea had more knowledge and understanding of the Australian countryside and climate than all the green hipsters in Newtown and St Kilda combined. She was only 19 when she wrote My Country, a year or two after the Federation Drought had broken. The McKellar family property on the Paterson River has seen umpteen droughts and flooding rains since then. Kids now have never heard of Dorothea or her insightful poem.

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    • #

      The period mentioned was the time of the great monsoon failures and rolling El Nino 1789-1795. The worst of it was the Skull Famine which killed around 11 million. It came a decade after the monsoon failures/El Nino (exacerbated by Mt Laki eruptions?) of the Chalisa Famine.

      Of course, our Federation Drought co-incided with the Indian Famine of 1899 (which at least stimulated Gilbert Walker and understanding of ENSO), and India suffered many deaths in that peculiar world-spanning drought of the late 1870s (Great Famine). We know of a sharp drought which dried the Murrumbidgee in the late 1830s, and this co-incides with the monsoon failure and Agra Famine 1837-8. Our very widespread 1865-and-onward drought co-incides with India’s deadly Orissa Famine.

      War and misrule have also played a part: certain activities by the empires of England and Japan contributed most to the 1940s Bengal Famine; but it’s interesting to observe that the WW2 years constitute one of Australia’s worst drought periods.

      In short, monsoons fail, and when they do…

      It’s so strange that even the highest qualified are now under permanent political pressure to pretend that what is old is new. This applies to climate and to those feeble antique technologies we see littering our roofs and our ridges.

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      • #
        Dennis

        An elderly friend just told me (born 1940) that the terrible drought years were one reason for many farmers joining the ADF for WW2.

        And that, living in western NSW after she was born became aware of the hardship faced by country folk.

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    • #
      Ian G

      According to BoM raw data, Sydney had more +35C temps between 1921 – 1950 then between 1989 – 2018 (ie past 30 years) – 127 v 112.
      Both periods each had 13 +40C days.

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    • #
      Hatrack

      beowulf, an aunt born in the early 1920′s also spoke about birds dying from the heat and falling out of trees when she was young. That was in the Riverina, north of Narrandera.

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    el gordo

    Bangladesh want to build a coal fired power station and the Greens are trying to stop them, but the PM of this very poor country fights back.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVMbXtUMlJY

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    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Yes, for the very obvious reason that otherwise her country is stuffed completely.

      Wonderful that she is contradicting the dopey Greenists and putting them in their place.

      Now how can we get some of our pollies to be like her ?

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    • #
      yarpos

      The greenies and alarmists never want the 3rd world to have first world power. The expect them to swallow intermittents and slow or paralyse their development.

      Sort of a pincer movement. Destroy the the first world, inhibit the 3rd world. Mung beans and fried crickets by candle light in mud huts for everyone. Very “progressive”

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      PeterS

      If only Morrison spoke like that. Perhaps someone will – after we’ve become like a third world nation.

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  • #
    el gordo

    Warwick Hughes reckons this recent heatwave is unremarkable.

    http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=6049

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    • #
      Dennis

      My son is a builder, when friends comment to him about the heat he tells them they are too soft, they spend too much time in air conditioned offices, vehicles, homes.

      That for people who work in the great outdoors it is normal summer conditions including some warmer than average days.

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    • #

      As I’ve said a few times, temps going up or down a bit matter not. If there has been “global” warming since the 1970s or between the 70′s and 90′s it matters not. Those who feel they can determine a world temp (to be called a “value” if disputed) can knock themselves out. Coolists who want to argue can do likewise. If a world temp could be known, it would be trivial for any number of reasons, but especially cloud.

      Australia now has a new record min, set the other night (maybe as a bit of cloud drifted in but they won’t tell you that) after a baking day in western NSW. How was this achieved?

      Well, it was at a place called Noona, somewhere out west. The measurements started there in the middle of 2017. Its only full summer was in 2017-18, when the three summer months recorded mean minima of 21, 23.1 and 21.6. The nearest official gauge is Cobar AWS, which recorded mean minima last summer of 18.8, 20.2 and 19.8. My, this new gauge is handy!

      And what did Cobar record on the night of Noona’s Aussie record? A very high 32.6…but 3.6 less than the new gauge at Noona. Another gauge at Borrona Downs has also been in the running lately for high minima, but I can find out nothing about it apart from its recent champion effort in the high minima stakes.

      So an interesting fact can be turned into a nasty political factoid, depending on how you word and what you choose to ignore and what you choose to observe. It’s not science, of course, but we live in an age of scientism, not science.

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      • #

        Correction, Cobar’s reading was 3.3 less than Noona’s 35.9. Still, whopper of a difference. If you read past the red/brown/purple graphics in the media you will find mention of high cloud coming across NSW to provide a blanket for the evening. But you’d have to push well past all that red, brown and purple.

        So, we’ve had a heatwave in western NSW and some evening cloud kept the minima right up. It’s not 1939 or 1896 or 1888 yet. But it’s been pretty hot out there. If it gets worse we can be sure our media will be prompt to inform us.

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      • #

        Noona 40.3 at midnight and 35.9 minimum pfft. That’s not hot enough to get a whole town walking in circles all night.

        No probs. This is.
        “By Tuesday Jan 14, people were reported falling dead in the streets. Unable to sleep, people in Brewarrina walked the streets at night for hours, the thermometer recording 109°F at midnight. Overnight, the temperature did not fall below 103°F. ”
        42.8 at midnight and 39.4 minimum.
        http://joannenova.com.au/2012/11/extreme-heat-in-1896-panic-stricken-people-fled-the-outback-on-special-trains-as-hundreds-die/

        From here.
        https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/44159099
        I wonder why the Brewarrina data does not go back this far at the BoM website?
        “Brewarrina Hospital Number: 48015 Opened: 1872″ Monthly data starts at the beginning of 1911. Always curious why so many new equipment installations seem to have been done on new years eave back then. Daily data starts at 1965.
        From here you can see that the first thermometers where installed in 1929 and that grass has grown there between the new buildings and trees. I wonder how much watering that needs?
        http://www.bom.gov.au/clim_data/cdio/metadata/pdf/siteinfo/IDCJMD0040.048015.SiteInfo.pdf
        Lance Pidgeon

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        Jonesy

        Strange. Why would the BoM erect an AWS at a homestead beside a large dam in the middle of nowhere?

        20

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  • #
    • #
      robert rosicka

      Good find RAH , there is no doubt at all about what BOM have done to hide the high temps of the past , as to why well it takes seasonal variability out of the equation and allows them to look for a cause and a patzy, so Co2 is wot dunnit.

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      • #
        Dennis

        I am reminded of the complaint made to the Minister responsible for BoM around 2014/15 regarding BoM media releases not matching BoM historic record data.

        The Minister was told by BoM management that this was due to “errors and omissions” and would be dealt with.

        When the Minister reported this to Cabinet Prime Minister Abbott recommended that due diligence, an audit by independent auditors be conducted at the BoM but a majority of Ministers voted against it. In September 2015 PM Abbott was replaced by PM Turnbull with his Black Hand Faction MPs in the majority within the Liberal ranks.

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      Mark M

      Here is 2 nasa links via catallaxyfiles comments:

      Darwin AP (airport) prior to the ‘plateau temp’ scare (via GISS NASA before 2010).
      https://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/show_station.cgi?id=501941200004&dt=1&ds=1

      After adjustments.
      https://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/stdata_show.cgi?id=501941200000&ds=5&dt=1

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      • #
        el gordo

        Morrison should do an audit of BoM but he lacks political courage.

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          yarpos

          If you will pardon the pun, I really really doubt its even on his radar at this stage.

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        • #
          Dennis

          I think Morrison has a similar cabinet opposition problem to what Abbott faced as PM.

          Abbott faced Cabinet Minister Turnbull and his “Black Hand Faction” supporters and Morrison is beholden to them after Dutton lost the leadership vote 45 to 40.

          A cabinet is similar to a public company board of directors, and the permanent heads of government departments and staff manage government business. When matters are put to a vote in cabinet the numbers are key to success.

          41

      • #
        Ian G

        Here’s another go at adjusting Darwin from Berkeley Earth.
        http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/stations/152446
        They’re all at it.

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        • #
          el gordo

          Very nice, I’ll take the raw data from the PO, which leaves me to consider the cause of this long term cooling.

          22

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    RAH

    BTW any Aussies that can’t take the heat can become climate refugees and come here. Would not be surprised if we hit -20 F in a few days.

    90

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    Salome

    Hi, it’s scientifically illiterate Salome here again. Last week it would appear that temperature records were broken in places like Tarcoola and Port Augusta. According to this article from the ABC:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-15/bats-fall-from-trees-in-south-australia-heatwave/10715876
    ‘The Bureau of Meteorology said Tarcoola, in the state’s north-west, reached 49 degrees Celsius at 3:20pm, its hottest temperature since records began in 1903.’
    I note that ‘records’ began in 1903. Records where? In Tarcoola (or should that be Tarwarma?)? Did Tarcoola have a weather station in 1903? If not, when did it get one? (I think you’re getting my drift–how many of these ‘record’ temperatures are from places where ‘records’ don’t go all the way back–which is not very far, in any event.)

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      Dennis

      It angers me that taxpayer funded government departments and organisations, including universities, are permitted to deceive voters by the representatives (the politicians) voters elect to watch over the affairs of government at all three levels on behalf of we the people.

      Added to the widespread cor*up*ion in this country, natural gas exports now exceeding the Qatar exports yet revenue far less here than Qatar receives, etc.

      $444 million gifted to the GBRF no application made, government departmental advice that far less be granted and in instalments ignored, and since ??????

      Taxpayer’s monies flowing offshore for all kinds of creative reasons and purposes.

      Both sides of the unofficial two-party system responsible, like a cooperative.

      It’s disgraceful.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Sir Charles Todd;

      He is best remembered for the telegraph. Having completed the Adelaide-to-Port Adelaide line, Todd then joined Adelaide and Melbourne (1858), Adelaide and Sydney (1867), and in August 1872 completed the monumental Overland Telegraph Line from Darwin to Adelaide. Accomplished in two years over country traversed only once before, the 2,000-mile-long single wire, supported on 36,000 wooden poles, connected Australia with Britain and thereby cut communication time from months to hours.
      From 1856 Todd had planned a system of weather recording using the telegraph stations and, after his additional appointment as Postmaster-General in January 1870, also obtained daily reports from country post offices.

      The line to Eucla was completed in 1877, joining Adelaide and Perth, so the Tarcoola telegraph station would have been reporting from then.

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    Neville

    Just thought I should post all of OZ rainfall graphs from the BOM because we are bombarded with how terrible the DROUGHTS ARE TODAY by the pollies journos and the MSM.

    These anomaly graphs are the best way to see the difference in rainfall since 1900 and I’ve set the moving average to 8 years. Don’t forget that years 1895 to 1902 were very bad and called the FED drought.

    Here’s all of OZ, notice much higher rainfall since 1968 and IOD doesn’t feature much during Mill drought.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/timeseries.cgi?graph=rranom&area=aus&season=0112&ave_yr=8

    Here’s Eastern OZ note a big change after 1949 and IOD+ MILL and 1960s drought starts to show up.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/timeseries.cgi?graph=rranom&area=eaus&season=0112&ave_yr=8

    Here’s Nth OZ and much wetter after about 1972, 85 to 1994 drier. More rainfall since.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/timeseries.cgi?graph=rranom&area=naus&season=0112&ave_yr=8

    Here’s Sth OZ with more rainfall since 1973 but IOD MILL drought shows up. Note drought in 20s to 40. 60s shows up and MILL drought.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/timeseries.cgi?graph=rranom&area=saus&season=0112&ave_yr=8

    Next is SE OZ and like Vic this shows the impact of IOD and MILL drought. The IOD was positive or neutral from 1992 to 2009, so little wonder SE OZ suffered .

    Next is SW WA, notice the impact from SAM after 1970 and IOD has no impact on this area. This is about the size of Vic but still has slightly higher rainfall.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/timeseries.cgi?graph=rranom&area=swaus&season=0112&ave_yr=8

    Next is MDB with higher rainfall after late 1940s. Impacted by MILL drought and IOD after 2000 but has the highest rainfall in 2010 and flooding persisted in 2011 as well. MDB flood in 2016 was the result of a very strong negative IOD. Don’t forget that just 2 years ago the MDB was in flood from the NEG IOD.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/timeseries.cgi?graph=rranom&area=mdb&season=0112&ave_yr=8

    I’ll come back later with the states or just check for yourselves. But no sign of that magic pixie dust in these graphs just the IOD, ENSO and SAM, yet Flannery Labor and the Greens etc wouldn’t wake up if the outhouse fell on them. But who understands this and who cares if we pour endless billions $ down the drain for a guaranteed zero return and ultimately a very unstable electricity grid? Disaster here we come.

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    Mark M

    Meanwhile … in Melbourne, they’re preparing for perfect weather. Everyday …

    Melbourne becomes first city with all council infrastructure powered by renewables

    “The transition means that council libraries, gyms, childcare centres and buildings are now fully powered by renewable energy, as are all of the city’s street lights.

    “It’s a pretty nice New Year’s resolution to go to 100% renewable energy,” the deputy mayor, Arron Wood, said.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jan/17/melbourne-becomes-first-city-with-all-council-infrastructure-powered-by-renewables

    > Four seasons in one day?

    Tell ‘em they’re dreamin’!

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    • #
      Dennis

      Ask them what evidence they have to identify 100% renewable energy from the electricity grid.

      Or are they paying a premium for “green energy” that benefits the union owned businesses and investment vehicles?

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      Kinky Keith

      Any reality is now possible, now that politicians have an unending supply of our money at hand.

      KK

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      yarpos

      On a still summer night where is their power coming from? from Norway sliding down a rainbow on the back of a unicorn perhaps? How much do you have to be able to comfortably distort reality to even utter that 100% claim?

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    EternalOptimist

    I sometimes wonder if there were a bunch of people at the Salem witch trials who wondered if the world had gone completely mad.
    Who wondered if things would ever get back on track and the lunacy would ever end.

    Well good news. It did eventually.

    and more good news for those feeling despondent – the current lunacy will end

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    David Maddison

    I think the world is heading toward a natural environmental catastrophe due to (a) us coming to the end of a rare interglacial and the world about to significantly cool and (b) a long overdue magnetic pole reversal.

    The forthcoming magnetic pole reversal is discussed here:

    https://youtu.be/sIayxqk0Ees

    Unfortunately by the time this happens (soon) the Western world (except for the USA under Trump) will have disposed of its cheap electricity producers.

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      yarpos

      Apparently the North will end up in Russia if it keeps moving (and dosent become the South Pole)

      I cant imagine what the US media will make of that. One thing for sure, it will be Trump’s fault and will have been colluding with the North Pole to get it to move to Russia.

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  • #

    How could you not be impressed when you see this?

    This is something that wind power and solar power can only dream about.

    For the last couple of days this last week, there have only been two coal fired Units off line across the three States still with coal fired power.

    At around 7AM on Friday morning, in the lead up to the morning peak, the total output from all the coal fired units in operation approached 20000MW in total output. For the next 15 hours, it hovered around that 20000MW figure, and in fact, across those fifteen hours coal fired power average 20060MW.

    That was at a Capacity Factor (CF) of 89.4%.

    At its maximum power generation, around the same time as that evening peak, at around 5PM, coal fired power was delivering its maximum power for the day, 20590MW and that was at a CF of 91.75%.

    Across the whole day, coal fired power averaged 19260MW, and that’s an operational CF for the day for all those Units in service of 85.83%.

    Even counting those two Units off line not delivering any power, the CF for coal fired power was still 83.74%.

    For the sake of comparison, wind power on the day delivered an average of 1580MW (CF – 29%) across the full 24 hour period, and that’s just a little lower than the year round average CF of 30%. So wind power was average for the day.

    Coal fired power delivered that same amount of power delivered from every wind plant in that same AEMO coverage area in 118 Minutes, and then the same again in the next 118 minutes for the whole 24 hour period across the day. The total power delivered from all the solar power plants averaged 410MW across the day, and coal fired power delivered that amount of power every 30 minutes.

    Coal fired power – 72% of the total generated power for this day.

    Wind Power – 5.9% of the total generated power for this day.

    Solar plant power – 1.5% of the total generated power for this day.

    We definitely need more of them. (you decide which one I’m talking about here, and which is the one most likely to get the nod)

    Tony.

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    • #

      Aha!

      See how the Maths sometimes fails even me.

      I worked that that data over a 24 hour period when I needed to work it out on an hourly basis, as my averages are all done on an hourly basis.

      So for wind power, then coal fired power delivered the wind total every 5 minutes, a factor of 12.2 times as much per hour, and for solar power, then coal fired power delivered that total every one minute and 20 seconds, a factor of 46.97 times as much per hour.

      Sorry for the puzzling results.

      Tony.

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      • #
        Dennis

        Yes, but the profiteering factor was excellent.

        sarc.

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        theRealUniverse

        Good work T, but as an alarmist I suggest with all that we dont need coal, switch it all off! NOT (of course)
        It amazes me that the politicians just cant get to grips with that type of analysis, more like they dont want to know. Nor does the MSM, hope their networks fail when they only have (useless) wind and (useless) solar.

        30

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      Bill In Oz

      Tony we NEED more coal & gas fired power stations
      Then power charges will go down and power will become more reliable and stable.
      We do not ‘need’ more solar or wind generation. Unless it is provided with the market not being obliged to buy it and if it is provided without any subsidies and without coal fired generation companies being penalised.

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        Dennis

        Without government backing and consumer paid subsidies for profit no private sector investor would consider solar or wind energy based business ventures.

        40

        • #
          sophocles

          Without government backing and consumer paid subsidies for profit no private sector investor would consider solar or wind energy based business ventures.

          Wonderful! Full Speed ahead Mister Phillips. Don’t spare the revolutions.

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    .
    ❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶
    ❶①❶①
    ❶①❶① . . . The recent Slowdown – on trial . . .
    ❶①❶①
    ❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶
    .

    Alarmists have started a legal battle, in an effort to convict the recent Slowdown of a serious crime. The crime in question is, “impersonating a real Slowdown”. This heinous crime carries a maximum sentence of 20 years of watching Al Gore “documentaries”.

    The trial is about to begin. We have managed to get our “climate reporter”, Sheldon Walker, on to the jury hearing the case against the recent Slowdown. We asked Sheldon if he thought that it was “fair”, for him to be on the jury? Sheldon replied, “Is it “fair”, that Alarmists won’t admit that there was a small, temporary Slowdown, that doesn’t have any significant long-term implications for global warming”?

    Sheldon is prepared to go to extreme lengths to help his friend. He has taught himself to text message with his toes, using a cellphone that is hidden in his shoe. Sheldon will be sending us text message “reports” from inside the room where the jury members are deliberating. These text message reports will be limited to 160 character per text message (Sheldon refuses to use Twitter), so Sheldon will use abbreviations where necessary.

    https://agree-to-disagree.com/the-recent-slowdown-on-trial

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    Peter Fitzroy

    I would have included gas in your calculations, which would put your percentages up to around Coal (black and brown) with Gas at around 85% of the power produced for the day. Hydro, wind, solar and bioenergy as the poor relations in the energy mix.

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    • #

      Gas fired power on the same day delivered 11.5%, and when you add in the other smaller generation from all the other CO2 Emitting generation, that total came in at 86% on that same Friday.

      When I do this data on the daily basis I do it, I include all sources of power generation.

      Tony.

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    pat

    stimulus bad says CAGW-infested CarbonPulse:

    19 Jan: Carbon Pulse: Climate watchers hold breath as China ramps up stimulus activities
    China has pumped the equivalent of almost $100 billion into its markets over the past few days, sparking speculation as to whether the country is planning a massive stimulus programme – a move that could potentially have a major impact on its greenhouse gas emissions.

    economic growth bad says CAGW-infested CNN:

    18 Jan: CNN: America’s oil boom is terrible for the climate
    by Ivana Kottasová
    America’s push for oil and gas supremacy could lead to a “climate catastrophe,” a new report has warned.
    The report by Oil Change International said that the United States is set to “unleash the world’s largest burst” of carbon emissions from new oil and gas development if it goes ahead with its plans to expand drilling.
    “At precisely the time in which the world must begin rapidly decarbonizing to avoid runaway climate disaster, the United States is moving further and faster than any other country to expand oil and gas extraction,” the report said…

    The International Energy Agency said Friday that US oil output soared by more than 2 million barrels per day in 2018, the biggest jump ever recorded by any country. The agency, which monitors energy markets trends for the world’s richest nations, said the growth will continue this year.
    The growth in the United States stands in stark contrast to the cuts promised by the 2015 landmark Paris climate change agreement…

    “To limit catastrophic climate change, governments must manage the decline of the fossil fuel industry, and do so over the next few decades,” (the report) added.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/18/business/climate-us-coal-mining/index.html

    CNN has plenty of links but none to the report – as is common with FakeNewsMSM. the collaborators might explain the omission in this case:

    16 Jan: OilChangeInternational: Drilling Towards Disaster: Why U.S. Oil and Gas Expansion Is Incompatible with Climate Limits
    by Kelly Trout
    Oil Change International in collaboration with: 350.org, Amazon Watch, BOLD Alliance, Center for Biological Diversity, Earthworks, Food & Water Watch, Friends of the Earth U.S., Greenpeace USA, Hip Hop Caucus, Indigenous Environmental Network, Labor Network for Sustainability, Oil Change USA, Our Revolution, People’s Action, Rainforest Action Network, Sierra Club, Working Families Party
    DOWNLOAD
    A new study released by Oil Change International and 17 partner organizations examines the urgent need for U.S. leadership to manage a rapid and just decline of fossil fuel production…
    http://priceofoil.org/2019/01/16/report-drilling-towards-disaster/

    stimulus good says CAGW-infested Bloomberg:

    14 Jan: Bloomberg Editorial: Germany’s Economy Could Soon Need a Boost
    If the slowdown persists, Berlin’s fiscal conservatives might have to think the unthinkable.
    An extended slowdown would demand a rethink as a matter of self-interest, and higher public investment in Germany would help the rest of the currency union as well. Many Germans might not like it, but the government would be wise to get its stimulus plan ready, just in case.

    50

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    George

    I found this article very well researched, showing a strong link between various US state’s electricity prices and how much wind and solar generation they had.

    Yes, Solar And Wind Really Do Increase Electricity Prices — And For Inherently Physical Reasons

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/04/25/yes-solar-and-wind-really-do-increase-electricity-prices-and-for-inherently-physical-reasons/#617314cc17e8

    It was written last April, but I couldn’t find the author mentioned here before with a search.
    You may have read it before though.

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    • #
      RickWill

      South Australia gets a mention in the link; now known worldwide – the state may become a tourist attraction as the place has the most expensive electricity in the developed world. Like the GP, this tourist attraction could soon be stolen by Victoria as Dan is the man driving electricity prices in Victoria and they are being supercharged by numerous additions of intermittents.

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    David Maddison

    Australian total government debt now over:

    $845 billion.

    And increasing by about $1 billion every four days.

    http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

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    • #
      Dennis

      I don’t think all the public sector debt is accounted for at the debt clock David.

      Both federal and state governments have government owned private companies not subject to public reporting holding significant debt, for example NBNCo.

      When the NSW Government holding companies managing electricity sector assets were sold there was debt amounting of $ billions, from memory the sale realised $6.1 billion and when the debts were retired all that was left was $800 million. The debt was the Carr Labor Government of NSW way of extracting extra “dividends” from those companies with debt hidden off government budgets in company accounts. The “dividends” helped to improve state budget results.

      I understand that Queensland still owns private companies in energy and apply the NSW Labor “dividends” methods.

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      RickWill

      Our net international position is what matters. The net debt was AUD100bn higher two years ago. It is is now down to AUD940bn or USD671bn.

      It is good to see that it is coming down despite all the cars, wind turbines and solar panels being imported. Cars are slowing down but I think the wind turbines are steady while solar panels are splurging.

      With heat out of the housing market due to residential funding declining 14% through 2018 there should be less pressure on imports as this is money not being created into the economy by the banks.

      With a lot more money going into electricity generating assets and people having to pay for them, there is less money for other items like new TVs and consumer technology that are all imported.

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    David Maddison

    Before traitorous Green Labor, GetUp and even now what passes as today’s (Turnbull’s) “Liberal Party” could become successful they had to stop teaching critical thinking and real history in schools and otherwise infiltrate all other institutions of influence. This was accomplished via Rudi Dutschke’s subversive “long march through the institutions starting in the 1960′s and which infiltrated the entire Western World.

    Comments on the “long march” with US point of view:

    https://youtu.be/fdTTr4iYT0M

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    • #
      Dennis

      When the Coalition led by Tony Abbott agreed to retain the Gonski grants to public schools negotiated with state leaders by the Gillard Labor Government, if the Coalition was elected to government in September 2013, a couple of conditions were applied being;

      1) That it depended on the figures published for Labor’s May 2013 Budget were accurate, because the Opposition had no access to Treasury and Finance.

      2) That Gonski would be supported by an Abbot led Government for 2013/14 financial year and the following forward estimate years, and after that subject to change as the Abbott Government would negotiate for a return to “back to basics” eduction in public schools.

      Following the formation of the Abbott Government an independent audit discovered that Labor had made no provision to pay for Gonski grants (or for NDIS). Accordingly Labor’s estimated budget deficit for 2013/14 was much lower than it was when the unfunded budget items were funded. And debt increased accordingly which for 2013/14 financial year should be added to Labor’s in government debt creation record.

      The point being here that when the Abbott Government commenced negotiations with the State and Territory leaders it was soon revealed that too many teachers, notably younger teachers, were not trained to teach the basics. So now there is a programme underway to teach new students and retrain the others, which I was told will take a decade to complete.

      Meanwhile the standard of student education has slipped way behind where Australia once was and is now in line with countries including Turkey.

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      yarpos

      I think the long march is reaching its destination, with full on State sponsored indictrination.

      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/01/18/connecticut-to-make-climate-change-a-mandatory-school-subject/

      50

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    Mark M

    If only they had a carbon (sic) tax …

    Archaeologists In Bulgaria Have Unearthed The Largest Supply Of Copper Age Axes Ever Found In Europe -

    Archaeologists have discovered a huge hoard of 22 different prehistoric tools in Bulgaria that date back 6,500 years.

    “After dating these tools, it is believed that the Bulgarian Copper Age axes and ax hammers were forged between the years 4,500 and 4,200 BC …

    It is a testimony to the development and sophistication of the earliest metallurgy in human history.”

    https://www.inquisitr.com/5245564/archaeologists-in-bulgaria-have-unearthed-the-largest-supply-of-copper-age-axes-ever-found-in-europe/?fbclid=IwAR1Iwaj8oRHoaBlQxf81qKXvNz3h0rsd7ePPk_LarE93HuM9jTiPiALmQyo

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      Mark M

      If only they had a carbon (sic) tax … #2 …

      Archaeologists have found evidence of early human activity at a submerged prehistoric forest in the Western Isles.

      “An unexpected discovery during the fieldwork was the realisation that archaeological remains survived in the intertidal zone.

      “These include a wall, the possible remains of sub-circular stone structures which could be houses, a quern stone and butchered animal bone associated with struck quartz tools.”

      (T)he forest was at its peak about 10,000 to 7,000 years ago and was a rich mix of birch, hazel, willow, aspen, rowan, oak, Scots pine, alder, ash and elm.

      From 6,000 to 4,500 years ago the woodland declined, and by about 2,800 to 2,500 years ago the isles “were more or less treeless”, said Scape.

      Rising sea levels, a wetter and windier climate and human activity were all factors behind the island forest’s decline.

      https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-46890793

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      Dennis

      Many years ago I was researching the ancient gold mines located in Africa some at least dated 150,000 years old and came across the circular stone structures being researched by a South African.

      I could not find the original publication but the following will explain it;

      https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/esp_sumer_annunaki35.htm

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      • #
        Dennis

        I hesitate before posting this link because there are so many who are quick to attack the messenger and/or criticise the information without thinking about it.

        The story in this link is not too long and please read the second page regarding ongoing research.

        I had a good and much older friend who studied many interesting subjects regarding life on Earth, ancient civilisations, religions and much more, and we spent many evenings discussing these subjects and realising that the more we learnt, me in particular, the more there was to discover.

        The mining for gold history led me to a link “Mitochondrial Eve”, the name given by researchers at Stanford University and a UK University for the mother of modern women who was one of the ancient people but the one that provided the genome sequence. Mitochondrial Adam who apparently lived thousands of years later than Eve provided the Y-Chromosome of men.

        I hope this is of interest;

        http://www.viewzone2.com/adamscalendar44.html

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        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Hi Dennis,

          I’m not sure why you would consider the post to be out of order and so deserving of criticism.

          The content seems to be of great interest and I will read them.

          You seem to be implying that some people posting here are being given a hard time. What are they posting?

          Those being confronted are posting rubbish with the sole intention of causing disruption.

          Look at this post, it seems relevant but the first three quarters is deliberate rubbish.

          http://joannenova.com.au/2019/01/climate-change-causes-three-meters-of-snow-in-two-days-avalaches-in-europe/#comment-2094523

          Too many recent posts from PF, I, IK and other sjws say Nothing and are like my sham post above.
          If you look at some of the green and fed thumbs it can be seen that Andy and I are not the only ones who fond this type of blog attack to be unpleasant and disrespectful of Jo.

          We all make posts that may later be seen to be off target, wrong or embarrassing. Problem is that when there are 50 pointless comments in a row the blog suffers.

          Here’s to a great 2019.
          :-)
          KK

          .

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            Dennis

            Thank you for your comment Keith.

            It was the link rather than my comment I hesitated about posting. On the few occasions elsewhere that I have posted about Mitochondrial Eve and Adam responses have been critically confronting from either religious folk or cannot accept new information characters who go on the attack, lashing out at the messenger rather than explaining why they cannot accept the information.

            All the best for 2019 to you.

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            • #
              Annie

              No problem to me Dennis. Mythology is fascinating stuff and I’ll go back to my books to compare notes. I think myths and legends, while not necessarily exactly what happened, or happened at all, in their own way tell truths about the human condition. I love the first book of Genesis but do not subscribe to a literal interpretation of it. To me it is a wonderful poetic description of the evolution of the earth and mankind.

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                Dennis

                Hi Annie, I find it all fascinating.

                Not exactly this, but with consideration for the “cargo cult” that developed in PNG during WW2 when a cargo aircraft crashed offering the locals treasures they had never imagined existed, worshipping a model of that aircraft hoping to attract more of them, I wonder how those primitive people would explain and describe a military Black Hawk Helicopter arrival, occupants in Army clothing with equipment, who offered first aid to injured locals and even demonstrated shooting an animal for food using a rifle? They would have no words to describe what they experienced. But over time the story would be handed down and probably be very difficult to understand and accept centuries later.

                30

              • #
                Dennis

                The Book of Ezekiel for example.

                10

            • #
              sophocles

              Dennis:
              – Get Thee to thy nearest library and ask for the book:

              SYKES, Brian, Ph.D: The Seven Daughters of Eve; the Science that reveals our genetic ancestry. W. W. Norton and Company, Ltd; Castle House, Wells St. London and Fifth Avenue New York. ©2001

              Bryan Sykes was professor of human genetics at Oxford University. (I think he retired in 2017 so he may be Professor Emeritus now). I have two of his books: The Seven Daughters of Eve, and Saxons Vikings and Celts.

              They’re fascinating reading. They aren’t written as formal scientific textbooks but as informative `chatty’ texts about the search, and the discoveries in everyday English.

              If you can’t get it through your library, I got my copies from amazon.co.uk. They’ve got copies, new at £6.05 plus postage. I bought from there, because postage from the UK to NZ is faster than from the USA. It may just as fast either way because most Americans have heard of Australia. Check both sites because the UK site has another book which is intriguing me: Blood of the Isles.

              You can hit back at those who attack you as messenger rather than the message as bluntly as you like:
              it’s in the scientific literature, now. It’s FACT, not fiction. There’s no point in being too nice.

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              • #
                sophocles

                Oops: forgot the important numbers:
                These are for the hardcovers ( I bought the hardcovers, I buy fiction in soft cover).

                The Seven Daughters of Eve:
                ISBN-13: 978-0-393–02018-2
                ISBN-10: 0-393-02018-5

                Saxons, Vikings and Celts:
                ISBN-13: 978-0-309-06268-7
                ISBN-10: 0-393-06268-6

                I have The Blood of the Isles” and “Adams Curse” (all about the Y chromosome) on my “to-get” list.
                I have heard that Tutenkhamun’s genes feature in a surprisingly large part of the English/United Kingdom male population so I want to check that :-)

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                Dennis

                Thank you very much Sophocies, I will obtain those books.

                20

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Love reading about new finds from history .

          30

        • #
          Dennis

          There is a controversial set of books Earth Chronicles written by Sitchin that includes Genesis Revisited and is based on Sumerian and Babylonian records (tablets) cross referenced against the much later publication The Bible. When Sitchin’s books were published a long time ago (I obtained copies late 1980s) many commented that he was writing fiction despite the books being listed as non-fiction.

          During the 1990s I met an in vitro fertilisation specialist at a social event and asked him if he was aware of the book Genesis Revisited and he said yes. I then asked if the “creation” described was possible and he said it was but what had been described was extremely primitive compared to how it is done today. That was no surprise to me.

          I believe there are many signs unexplained on Earth that could indicate well advanced human civilisations long forgotten, destroyed maybe, rather than aliens visiting Earth. Consider the Aswan Dam in Egypt and the importance of the ancient Egyptians in history. Or are we looking at the descendants of an earlier great civilisation? The buildings now submerged under dam waters could not be moved using modern machinery I understand. How did the people build Machu Picchu in southern Peru without mortar and the stones so perfectly aligned and fitted? There are many questions. My son who is a builder was fascinated when he inspected that stonework.

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          • #
            Kinky Keith

            My wife and I were fortunate to have been able to visit the Great Pyramid and over the space of a week went there four times.

            We climbed, walked and crawled into the Kings Chamber in the Great Pyramid and were there on our own for a while.

            Walking around the pyramid complex makes you wonder, how did they build all this four and a half thousand years ago.

            Later heard about Gobleki Tepi, erected and later covered up 12,000 years ago.

            Maybe during the next ice age when oceans fall 120 metres, Atlantis and the cities like it will give more answers.

            KK

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            • #
              Dennis

              Keith I understand that the Sphinx has been dated 12-15,000 years of age based on water erosion on its back and that the heavy rainfall that did it was that long ago.

              I have remembered another conversation I had about Genesis Revisited and the Earth Chronicles that surprised me. I was sitting alongside a minister of religion at a dining table and I asked him about the books. He told me that he had read them and then explained that the contents are what he and his colleagues often discuss. I asked why they do not explain it including The Bible stories for wider community discussion. The reason was that too many people would be confused and probably frightened because as church people they have not been prepared for the information. Obviously there are many more like him in the various religions and much knowledge stored away for limited access.

              40

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Yes,
                the Sphinx.
                I was able to walk past it without getting too excited, and the same for the Valley of the Kings and Angkor Wat in Cambodia.

                The pyramids though, are amazing and they do make you think.

                In my old age I’ve been interested in piecing together past history.

                Just finished a book by an American called John Shelby Spong: Jesus for the Non Religious.

                It gives a point of view and provides context to the life and times of Jesus.

                Just another insight into the world of politics, government and conflict.

                KK

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              • #
                Serp

                There’s a Graham Hancock video which I seem to recall somebody linked to in these pages several weeks ago in which these subjects are canvassed.

                This one explicitly discusses the weathering of the sphinx and consequently impugns the dating of the orthodox egyptologists.

                It’s very wide ranging including theories on the ending of the Younger Dryas and introduced me to the perils of the Taurid Meteor Stream which earth passes through in June and November. Gobekli Tepe gets a mention, as does Machu Picchu and Angkor Wat; as I said very wide ranging, nearly two hours, and he only skims over his later slides.

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          • #
            sophocles

            There is an hypothesis which suggests the core blocks of the Great Pyramid were made from a poured concrete. The art of `artificial’ rock had been known for millennia. Some of the concrete was made from water, cement, and volcanic ash. That would be an interesting mix. The outer sheathing of the pyramid was limestone. The quarry for that is well known. Most of the sheathing has been stolen/removed/recycled.

            Stone cutting was very fast. They used slurries which can cut very quickly. Granite is hard but it seems to cut with a slurry very easily. (Can’t remember where I came across that. Bother. It did raise my eyebrows.) Bronze saws were in the mix somewhere: I think they were used with slurries too. And they may have also used sonic cutters.

            Those beautifully fitted asymmetrically shaped stones commonly used in South America have intrigued me for years. I’ve wondered if they were actually moulded from a kind of concrete or cut some other way. I’m curious as a cat but have never made the attempt to find out. I would have to find a good source of volcanic ash first.

            They could move the blocks quite fast. I’ve seen largish stone balls lying around Giza and in the quarries in documentaries. They were claimed to be hammer-stones for hacking out blocks. Balls. Symmetric spheres, all of the same (or very similar) size?

            Balls to that idea. I reckon they were balls for bearings. This idea was demonstrated by in documentaries about Stonehenge by some of the research crew and students https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1330917/Stonehenge-builders-used-ball-bearings-giant-slabs-stone.html Now consider this method for moving those big blocks around in the quarries and on the building site at the Giza pyramids…

            We write our ancestors off as stupid and primitive. Maybe they were primitive, but maybe we are stupid. They had brains as sharp or maybe sharper than ours and ideas got around the globe very fast in those days even without radio! You only have to slide down a steep scree slope to appreciate the reduction in friction. How much thought would it take to start applying that discovery deliberately? A bit of experimentation, a bit more thinking, some fiddling and hey, where are the brakes?

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    pat

    new revelations the FakeNewsMSM will probably ignore:

    19 Jan: Epoch Times: EXCLUSIVE: Transcripts of Former Top FBI Lawyer Detail Pervasive Abnormalities in Trump Probe
    By Jeff Carlson
    Former top FBI attorney James Baker admitted to House lawmakers in October last year that the investigation into alleged collusion between the Trump 2016 presidential campaign and Russia was riddled with abnormalities.

    Confronted with a damning summary of abnormalities, bias, and omissions, which transpired during the investigation, Baker told Congress that the investigation indeed was “highly unusual.”

    “I had a jaundiced eye about everything, yes. I had skepticism about all this stuff. I was concerned about all of this. This whole situation was horrible, and it was novel and we were trying to figure out what to do, and it was highly unusual,” Baker told lawmakers…
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/transcripts-of-former-top-fbi-lawyer-detail-pervasive-abnormalities-in-trump-probe_2771370.html

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    pat

    TDS IS ALL ABOUT CAGW:

    18 Jan: RollingStone: Saving the Paris Agreement
    How a team of U.S. diplomats outfoxed Trump and helped salvage the global pact on climate change
    by Jeff Goodell
    But the biggest threat to the climate agreement in Katowice wasn’t paranoid leaders worried about other nations spying on economic data. It was the impulsive stupidity of President Donald Trump, who, as he has made clear in dozens of remarks and tweets, is a shameless and unrepentant climate denier. After Trump spent his presidential campaign touting the wonders of coal, it surprised no one that a few months after being sworn into office he announced he was pulling the U.S. out of the Paris Agreement. By the terms of the agreement itself, the U.S. can’t officially leave until 2020. But Trump, who has zero respect for such norms, could have ordered the State Department not to send a team of negotiators to Katowice…

    But none of that happened. “At some level, a decision was made to send an experienced team from the State Department,” says Todd Stern, who led U.S. climate negotiations under President Barack Obama and is now a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. The U.S. not only participated in the negotiations, but the diplomats from the State Department, headed by veteran climate negotiator Trigg Talley, Stern’s former deputy, held the negotiations together and actually strengthened the Paris Agreement’s rulebook…

    “I don’t think Trump even knew Katowice was happening,” former Secretary of State John Kerry tells Rolling Stone. Instead, the U.S.’s role in Katowice was seen by some negotiators as a quiet insurgency by career diplomats to keep America’s place at the table in global climate negotiations. (In fact, I was asked by several participants not to write about it, lest someone in the White House get wind of it and seek revenge.)…

    A number of the toughest issues, such as how poor nations will be compensated for loss and damages, were, as usual, put off until the next conference in 2020. And despite the ever-accelerating risks the world faces from climate change, there was no sign that nations were ready to dramatically increase their ambitions to cut greenhouse gases…

    The question now is, ‘Who will step up and show some ambition and political leadership?’ ” Or as Guilenpour puts it, “The age of climate negotiations is now over. It is time for the age of ambition to begin.” At least until 2020, when the U.S. presidential election might inject some urgency into taking action on climate, that ambition is more likely to come from China than America. “The Chinese understand what’s at stake,” says Kerry. Given Trump’s claim that climate change is a Chinese hoax, it would be a great irony if climate change were, in fact, the issue that allows China to assert itself as a global leader…

    “In Katowice,” says Jennifer Morgan, executive director of Greenpeace International, “I think everyone decided that we were not going to let one corrupt, morally bankrupt person destroy the world. Even if that person is the president of the United States.”
    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/saving-the-paris-agreement-780473/

    18 Jan: EuroNews: “U-turns are possible” – IRENA DG on US withdrawal from Paris Agreement
    The International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) held its ninth assembly from 11th to 13th January in Abu Dhabi.
    The gathering, which took place ahead of Abu Dhabi Sustainability Week (LINK), brought together government officials and representatives from the private sector to establish the global renewable energy agenda for 2019.
    IRENA’s recently published “New World” report (LINK) served as base for these discussions…
    The agency’s director general, Adnan Amin, spoke to Euronews about the challenges and opportunities that the energy shift presents globally…

    UNITED STATES
    Amin considers President Trump’s withdrawal from the Paris Agreement to be “unfortunate” and a “defining issue for our generation.”
    However, IRENA’s chief predicts that it won’t be long before the US renews its permanent commitment to global climate change talks.
    “U-turns are always possible, as we’ve seen in politics, and I suspect that in the not too distant future the US will be back,” he said…

    CHINA
    IRENA’s “New World” report cites China as one of the country’s which will wield most power within the shifting energy space…
    https://www.euronews.com/2019/01/18/u-turns-are-possible-irena-dg-on-us-withdrawal-from-paris-agreement

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  • #
    yarpos

    Seeing we are unthreaded a couple of mentions from the world of business and media.

    Been enjoying the slaughtering of the French language in adverts lately. The Babell ad with the lady promising to teach you languages online in just a few weeks, has her talking to a waiter in French and giving him a very aussie merci beaucoup with the merci pronounced as a strine mercy. Then the IPad advert with soundtrack singing Walla, Walla for voila, voila. No wonder they cringe.

    Dont know what other people reaction has been to Gillette, but they no longer are the default supermarket selection for me. I have just ordered a retro double edge razor package. if anyone is interested
    https://www.mensbiz.com.au/

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    • #

      I have just ordered a retro double edge razor package. if anyone is interested

      You could go the whole 70s retro and get a small pyramid to store your blades under to keep them sharper for longer, although why anyone ever believed that

      We were issued one of those on enlistment in the RAAF in 1967, and for a 15 year old who had never shaved in his life, I got a few cuts early on. Also got issued a string wrapped wooden shaving brush as well.

      Now I have a lovely super super soft Edwin Jagger bristle brush, without doubt the best shaving brush I have ever used, now five years old and as good as it was on that first shave. Couple that with Crabtree and Evelyn West Indian Lime shaving soap, and shaving with blades is nothing like it used to be, even with a now infinitely tougher 68 year old stubble.

      Tony.

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        If you joined up at 15 you must have done a Wagga apprenticeship, as did my brother. I still remember him coming home with that shave kit which included a stick which I assume was to stem bleeding from a nick and on it was the disclaimer: Not for use on gashes. Brother wondered how some people shaved.

        I joined as a 17 y old “adult” enlistee, one of the last rookie courses through Rathmines, once a flying boat base. Great place for a base so they closed it down.

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        • #
          Kinky Keith

          I used to holiday are Coal Point and sometimes row across towards Rathmines.
          Saw a double decker seaplane take off on one occasion: I think it was Mia and Mercury and it was set up to take mail across long hauls to the US.

          KK

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        • #

          Joined on January 19th 1967, as a Radio Apprentice (Laverton, 21 Intake) but wasn’t cut out to be a RadTech, so I transferred across to the Adult Stream Electrical Trade in 1968.

          15 Years and nine Months old, as were we all, straight out of Grade Ten, and think about that. How many parents these days would allow their 15 year olds to join the Military, no matter what the scenario.

          Tony.

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            Hanrahan

            I did the radio course at Ballarat, the coldest hole I’ve ever been to, hence my remark about Rathmines. :)

            20

            • #
              yarpos

              I used to drive through Ballarat in the early morning travelling to a project at Hamilton Base Hospital. You could watch the outside temp plummet approaching Ballarat and improve again on the other side. I guess it sits in a basin, and yes it gets bitter in winter.

              20

              • #
                Yonniestone

                Come on guys its not that cold here apart from the few weeks in winter that doesn’t crack 10c and the occasional snow event, hail, sleet, wind chill, frosts, low TSI and…………forget it.

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              • #
                Hanrahan

                I was in Ballarat for the whole of winter. The only thing that kept it habitable was the coke fired boilers feeding the showers. We didn’t come out of the showers ’til we were lobster red and could walk back to the hut in the nude and get into bed before the chill set in.

                That’s when I started shaving in the shower [back to the topic, see] a habit that stuck for decades. But I don’t recall what blades I used except that they wouldn’t have been gilllette blue, they sucked.

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              • #
                Hanrahan

                Anyone know the term “rainbow soap”? That’s the soap the tight a’s use when there are 50 other guys using a shower block.

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        • #
          Dennis

          What’s wrong with the Norman Gunston look?

          Pieces of tissue paper on shaving cuts.

          lol

          11

        • #
          Dennis

          What’s wrong with the Norman Gunston look?

          Pieces of tissue paper on shaving cuts.

          lol

          01

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Bugger Gillette ! Maybe when they issue an apology…I’ll forget//

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    • #
      sophocles

      Wilkinson Sword used to keep their edges much longer than Gillette.

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  • #

    If you ever needed statistics to back you up as to why residential air conditioning is NOT the cause of increased power consumption, look at the last two days.

    Overall power generation (hence power consumption) on the Friday working day was 26800MW per hour.

    Overall power generation (hence power consumption) on the Saturday weekend day was 22600MW per hour. That’s a drop of 4200MW per hour, or 15.7% less than on the working day.

    It stands to reason that being a weekend, then more people are home from work, and more likely to be running their home air for longer hours than on a working day when they are at work, so IF the problem was in fact home air conditioning, then power consumption would be higher with more of them in operation for longer periods of time than on any other working day.

    And tomorrow, the Sunday, it will be even lower again, as it usually always is lowest on the Sundays.

    Keep in mind that the Base Load, that time when power consumption is at its lowest for any given day, then on these two days, there was only 1200MW difference, so power consumption increased at a much higher rate across those remaining 16 to 20 hours in the day, as it is again similar after about 8PM, so that rise is even larger across those 16 hours during the typical working day.

    Tony.

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      Bill In Oz

      I am perplexed Tony. Today is Sunday the 20th.

      And your remarks after “Keep in Mind.., I do not understand at all..Could you please put it another way ?

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      • #

        Base Load on Friday Morning was 20700MW at 3.55AM instantaneous across all the States. (Based on the one time, Queensland or EST)

        Base Load on Saturday Morning was 19500MW at 4.05AM instantaneous across all the States.

        The data I collate is wef from Midnight of the day just passed, so Saturday’s data is being written up for posting today, Sunday as I write this here, probably ready in about an hour from now. That’s about as real time as I can get it. Takes me around three hours a day to put it all together.

        As electrical power consumption, and from that, power generation, has to be at an instantaneous reading, the AEMO uses the one time for all data, (Queensland time) so while it actually is that time in Queensland, the time displayed on the clocks in other States with daylight savings time is an hour later or half an hour later in SA.

        Tony.

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    Hanrahan

    Are they trying to break BassLink again?

    A few days ago someone posted that overloading and not waiting long enough to reverse flow caused the big failure. The recommendations from the enquiry were to limit power to 400 MW and to wait 5 mins before reversing. They are now importing 478 MW.

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      No one has corrected me but on reflection I think it was 500 MW max. Not so bad.

      10

    • #
      David Maddison

      According to their website they wait 2 mins before reversing the current.

      http://www.basslink.com.au/basslink-interconnector/operations/

      20

      • #
        Hanrahan

        I’m sure that a poster here said that the old protocol was two minutes and that it has now been extended to 5.

        At the time I didn’t see why time was relevant but on reflection it could be that on such a long cable carrying such high currents it takes a while for flux to decay. That’s why AC can’t work in submarine cabled where flux needs to reverse 100/sec.

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          It makes sense – a cable that length is a large capacitor and inductor all rolled into one….so it has an electrical inertia which takes time to decay.

          40

        • #
          beowulf

          Yes I posted it. The recommendation was a 5 minute delay between polarity reversal.

          https://www.zdnet.com/article/basslink-subsea-cable-outage-caused-by-exceeding-design-limit-experts/

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          RickWill

          Basslink is a “current source” DC link requiring polarity reversal to achieve current reversal. As you point out there is a lot of capacitance in a cable of this configuration and length so voltage decay will take time.

          The increased de-ionisation time between polarity reversal is likely related to insulation stress as the time was extended to protect the cable after the fault. My first thought was that the increase was required to ensure reliable commutation of the thyristor bridges but that would be a converter fault and should not harm the cable.

          The other type of DC link “voltage source” does not require polarity reversal so can accommodate rapid current reversal.

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    pat

    18 Jan: GWPF: We Have A Winner: Climate’s Tallest Tale 2018
    We asked you to nominate the wackiest climate stories of the year. You didn’t let us down…READ ON
    https://www.thegwpf.com/we-have-a-winner-climates-tallest-tale/

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      Are the blue whales simply older on average since whaling ceased? I think my voice is deeper now than it was decades ago.

      Isn’t that one of the tell-tales when we try to picture the person at the other end of the phone?

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    Another Ian

    From an email

    “How do you create a small business?”

    “Start with a large one and vote for Bill Shorten”

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    • #
      Another Ian

      In that vein

      In that vein. The saying for years has been

      “How do you leave the Qld mulga country with a small fortune?”

      “Start with a large one”

      The modern amendment to that, courtesy of current vegetation legislation, requires starting with an even larger one.

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  • #
    philthegeek

    So, Australian scientists send message approximating “Up yours ScoMo and your Donors”.

    Damn good to see some timely push back against ignorant lowlives that have been passing for a Govt who ignore the science in making policy. :)

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      Not sure why the rant for this one , the fish deaths were not a new phenomena in this system .
      Unless of course you’re angling for a Co2 caused problem in which case if the labs appoint the witch doctors I’m in no doubt that is exactly what they will blame .

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        philthegeek

        Not sure why the rant for this one , the fish deaths were not a new phenomena in this system .

        So just ignore it and move on huh… as though actual science shouldn’t inform public policy? Much surprisiment at finding that attitude here. Its not just about fish kill robert. That just the trigger for it.

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          el gordo

          The Greens are calling for a Royal Commission into the fish kill, but that is unnecessary because it was natural.

          ‘Up to a million fish died in the Darling River at Menindee last week when a cool change swept through the region, killing off an existing algal bloom and depleting oxygen which worsened water quality.’ West Oz

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        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        Sorry for one red r r. I hit it on the way to a green.
        Cheers,
        Dave B

        10

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        Bill In Oz

        DYING FISH IS THE MENINDIE LAKES

        Most of us have seen the pictures of all the Murray cod dying in the Menindie Lakes and the lower darling river of NSW. Someone sent me photos by private message wanting them to be featured on Mayo For Mayo facebook page.

        And the Guardian has chosen to make a big deal of it all :https://www.theguardian.com/…/its-happening-again-menindee-…

        That set me thinking. And I notice that Rebekha Sharkie, our local MP for Mayo, in her Facebook page, has decided it is an important issue to her as the member for mayo in South Australia.

        What’s going on with this whole business ?

        It is actually a complicated story. Not a simple one.

        This is what Wikipedia says about the Menindie lakes :
        “The Menindee Lakes Storages is a major gated dam system, including multiple weir and lake impoundments and a concrete spillway, with six vertical lift gates, across the seven lakes that form part of the Menindee Lakes Water Storage Scheme.

        The lakes were originally a series of natural depressions that filled during floods on the Darling river. As the flow receded the floodwaters in the natural depressions drained back into the Darling River.[

        In 1949, work began on building dams, weirs, levees, canals and regulators to catch and retain floodwaters. Major works were completed in 1960 and final completion was in 1968. There were electrical upgrades in 2007. The scheme was built by the New South Wales Water Conservation
        and Irrigation Commission, to manage river flows, town water supplies and other domestic requirements, irrigated agriculture, industry, and flood mitigation. It has become increasingly important for regulating environmental flows ”

        Some additional information :

        The major town which these Menindie “Dams” supplied was the mining town of Broken Hill. Broken Hill being in a desert, has no local source of fresh water. So ever since the 1960’s it was supplied via pipeline from Menindie lakes, an hour away from Broken Hill by car.

        But that is no longer happening. The NSW government has built a 400 kilometre pipeline from Wentworth on the Murray ( near Mildure ) to supply Broken Hill with water. Apparently the NSW government did this because the the amount of water & the quality of the water supplied to Broken Hill was not adequate.

        So they built an expensive pipeline. – 400 kilometres long

        Also last year the NSW government started reducing the amount of water it sent down the Darling as the lakes were no longer supplying Broken Hill. It also started releasing water out of the lakes to flow further down stream for other users and for environmental reasons.

        In fact the NSW government set this in motion as a way of saving water for environmental flows elsewhere as discussed in the Guardian in April 2018. https://www.theguardian.com/…/the-menindee-lakes-project-wh…

        Thus the river & the lakes started drying out.

        After all, all of NSW was in severe drought during 2018. There was a need for available water to be managed carefully.

        As is normal during a big drought, the lower reaches of the Darling stopped flowing as well….And the native fish that had lived in the Darling & Menindie Dams since the 1960’s, taking advantage of the water that humans provided in the river & lakes, started dying as the remaining water warmed up and algal blooms started happening.

        But the locals at Menindie got very upset and started a campaign to restore water levels in the artificial, man made lakes. They sent photos of dead fish to all the media.

        Perhaps this fish kill could have been avoided. By a program to relocate the fish. Or by a program to selectively flood one of the lakes for preservation of the native fish stocks. for the benefit of locals who like their fish and fishing.

        But that is an issue for the NSW state government and for NSW voters to judge in 2 months time. It is not a Mayo in South Australia issue. .

        But all of this raises a question in my mind : When do water storages built by us Australians, become ‘natural’ features, and part of the ‘environment’ ? And do we have to then preserve & protect such water bodies by adding more fresh water to them ?

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        Slithers

        Don’t know if this is relevant, but in the pictures I saw most of the dead fish were European Carp, an invasive species, so good riddance!

        00

    • #
      Peter C

      Leading Australian scientists will conduct a study into causes of the huge fish kill on the Darling River and the wider issue of water mismanagement after accepting a request from Labor leader Bill Shorten.
      The Australian Academy of Science welcomed the opportunity to prepare the report by February 10 in time for Mr Shorten to present it to Parliament in its first week back.

      https://www.theage.com.au/environment/conservation/top-scientists-agree-to-labor-request-to-study-darling-river-fish-kill-20190120-p50sii.html

      Umm, The Australian Academy of Science (AKA Top Scientists) agree to a Labor Party request to present their findings IN TIME for Bill Shorten to present the results to the next sitting of Parliament! IS that Scientists for political hire or what?

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        David Maddison

        Are they legally able to fo that? These will almost certainly be Government scientists. I’d be surprised if they are allowed to accept instructions from anyone other than the Government or authorised representatives.

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      Sceptical Sam

      Phil

      The fish kill is a result of a lack of O2 in the water.

      The lack of O2 is because of the decomposition of green algae in the water.

      The green algae in the water (that subsequently decomposed) is a result of poor or no river flow.

      The reason for the no river flow is the drought in the upper regions of the catchment.

      There.

      To whom do I address my Invoice? Or does Bill want it for free again?

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        philthegeek

        SS, you are missing the point….how unusual. The current fish kill is the trigger for an analysis. It will cover a LOT more and no doubt go mainly to the management of the system over the last few years and how the water is divvied up. The hydrology of the system.

        To whom do I address my Invoice

        Obvious fails are generally unpaid.

        25

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Unusual but not unheard of and the causes are known , what possible use is a bunch of scientists when we know the cause , unless you want to blame say Co2 but in that case the scientists will have already come to that conclusion before the study so I repeat why the need for scientists?

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          • #
            philthegeek

            unless you want to blame say Co2

            Still willfully missing the point then??

            26

            • #
              robert rosicka

              Yes Phil , hurts doesn’t it !
              Lack of water in the Darling system is a factor of many things but ultimately it requires rain and lots of it , this river has always been a boom or bust river .
              The cotton growers upstream are extracting / diverting massive amounts of water no argument .
              There is nothing here for scientists, maybe an enquiry into the system and users but that’s it .
              Have you ever been to Menindee or travelled between Menindee and Bourke on the Darling system ? , we were in Menindee just over two years ago and stayed for a week we loved it so much .
              The town water was on the nose , water levels were down throughout.

              42

              • #
                Another Ian

                RR

                “The cotton growers upstream are extracting / diverting massive amounts of water no argument .”

                Questions – relative to this event when was the last water diverted?

                Rainfall since? Evaporation and soakage since?

                41

              • #
                Hanrahan

                The cotton growers upstream are extracting / diverting massive amounts of water no argument .

                I assume you are referring to Cubby Station. It does not dam the river [Fitzroy?] AFAIK. Do you know different? I doubt they would be growing during this drought anyway. If you had 10 canals and pipes taking water south they would all have been dry for ages, Qld is in drought.

                And how is it stealing [a word often used] to use rain water that fell in Qld within the state? Why should irrigation projects in Qld be sacrificed to keep the Riverina alive?

                21

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Great argument / point of view Hanrahan and reinforces the point that scientists don’t need to investigate fish deaths in this circumstance.
                Cubby station I read somewhere gets a cotton crop off once every seven or so years but the major growers do divert water and yes it’s their water but they do have quotas the same as all irrigation users .
                More dams is the answer and somehow getting water from the north or lake Argyle .

                11

              • #
                Another Ian

                Re Lake Argyle

                Was up there recently. You really get an idea of how big the lake is when flying over it.

                Seems there will still be spare water when Ord Irrigation 2 gets going.

                And if it looks like there isn’t they can raise the dam wall to about the height of the current lookout

                21

              • #
                Hanrahan

                RR, if Cubbie only gets a crop every seven years that would indicate that my thoughts are correct, that they store water only when the river is in flood and do so in dams beside the Culgoa River [I looked it up] not across it.

                I looked at the wiki page and it drips with green, anti-Cubbie slime.

                I think I have found Cubbie on Gearth but can’t find these massive dams, but if someone has coordinates I’ll have another look.

                12

              • #
                Hanrahan

                The last time Cubbie harvested water was 20 mths ago. Can’t blame them for this fish kill.

                January 2019 Update

                1. The last time Cubbie Station harvested any water was in April 2017. At that time Cubbie Station diverted 14 GL of the 156 GL that passed through St George. Over 2GL of Cubbie Station’s river entitlement was left in the river to assist downstream users.

                2. In March 2018 there was a water harvesting event where Cubbie Station was authorised to divert 3GL. Cubbie Station voluntarily diverted NO water therefore leaving it all in the river system for downstream users.

                3. The last time Cubbie diverted a meaningful amount of water was in September 2016 (when it diverted 78GL of the 386GL that passed through St George). This diversion followed a substantial wet period over eastern Australia, along with major flooding in various Murray Darling catchments.

                4. Cubbie Station’s water rights are structured such that high flow flood events provide the majority of water diverted onto Cubbie Station. Cubbie Station’s average entitlement is 0.25 of 1% of the total average Murray flow.

                5. At all times Cubbie has managed its water rights in compliance with its authorised water licenses, the Murray Darling Basin Plan and government policy. As described above, it has also taken the initiative around managing water for the benefit of downstream users.

                6. No fertiliser or chemicals from Cubbie Station’s cotton farming ever enters the natural water courses as the irrigated farming area of Cubbie Station is fully bunded.

                7. 6GL of Environment, Stock and Domestic flow was released at St George from 25th December 2018 and ceased on 3rd January 2019. (NO water available for irrigation purposes.) Fortunately, this flow has reached Cubbie Station as domestic water levels at Cubbie Station were extremely low. In accordance to water resource rules the low flow has now passed through the Cubbie Station weir.

                8.NO cotton or summer crops will be harvest at Cubbie Station in 2019.

                40

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Another Ian , yes lake Argyle is impressive and can be made bigger , much bigger .
                I was surprised by how small the wall actually is and how much water has to be released during a normal wet season .

                Hanrahan I’m sure Cubby is set up to only take advantage of the good flooding years as is the others , we do hear about a few ratbags who over do their entitlement .

                Just read about a paddlesteamer that was stranded for three years on the Darling , while in later years one was able to take a tributary and get to the Queensland border .

                Think I read somewhere that Coopers creek is the only creek in the world that has two rivers as its source .

                11

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Story is that cotton growers, Johnny come latelys, have managed to take an excess amount from the common pool.
          This has left down stream dry.

          We need more dams but governments know that they can always blame Klimate Change for water shortages and spend the money required for dams on more useful projects closer to home.

          KK

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          • #
            el gordo

            The Murray Darling Basin Authority decided to let the Menindee Lakes dry out, from my understanding its an artificial lake system.

            Appalling stupidity by the authorities.

            50

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Yes. Driving all of this conflict is the fact that water is an extremely valuable resource and money always brings governments into the picture.

              When governments are involved there is inevitably misinformation and cover-ups.

              All I know about the system is what I heard on the radio so I’m just summarising that.

              Another government stuff up from the Department of Couldn’t Care Less.

              KK

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          • #
            el gordo

            Could we have a fresh water pipeline from Lake Argyle to Bourke, Premier Gladys will pay.

            23

            • #
              Hanrahan

              Could we have a fresh water pipeline from Lake Argyle to Bourke, Premier Gladys will pay.

              Yea, look at the map, it’s all downwards and will not need pumping.

              10

              • #
                el gordo

                Looking at the economics, a pipeline from Lake Argyle to Halls Creek (a distance of 520 km) would cost roughly $500 million.

                Beijing could organise a shelf company to fund it, or perhaps the China Infrastructure Bank would be a safer bet.

                The WA government will demand payment for their water.

                00

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Does ya mean moi Sceptical Sam ?

        I put my dibbs in up there as well with lots of info that no one had mentioned..

        It’s not me that needed your comment, though I agree with everything you write.
        Cheers
        Bill in Oz

        10

    • #
      glen Michel

      I saw the same massive fish kill between Brewarrina and Bourke in ’81. Still, the so-called experts can’t get the events right; that is: an over-regulated system coupled with low inputs.

      31

      • #
        glen Michel

        More dams are not the answer.

        40

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Yeah,
          my comment about dams was mainly for other more suitable locations.
          The main issue with this area is that the government has taken/reallocated a variable supply and not told some of the former users that things were going to get worse.

          Politics.

          12

        • #
          robert rosicka

          More dams is the answer glen , just need to be somewhere with a higher rainfall .

          21

          • #
            philthegeek

            More dams is the answer glen

            Oh good, lets turn more rivers into toxic drains. idiots.

            14

            • #
              AndyG55

              Another clueless comment from phlip.

              20

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Not that river.

              Somewhere that rainwater floods down to the ocean and would otherwise be lost.

              00

            • #
              el gordo

              Phil a fresh water pipe from Lake Argyle to the Darling River would solve all these problems. What do you think?

              10

            • #
              el gordo

              We must encourage the multinationals who own Cubbie to stop growing cotton during droughty times and put in a crop of industrial hemp instead. It uses only a third of the water required by cotton.

              00

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      OK. This is for the record.

      It’s about flows. River flows. Oh! and temperatures.

      Nobody here has looked at the stats on river flows. Especially not philthegeek – who thinks he knows it all but really knows bugger-all.

      If your geography is up to it, here’s some stats to stick in your pipe and smoke, philthegeek:

      The Balonne River at St George in Queensland (which feeds the Darling) has an Annual Average Flow of 1,298 GL.

      In 2017 this dropped to 156 GL. See what’s happening here? It’s called drought onset.

      Then, at the height of the drought in 2018 (last year) it fell further to just 73 GL.

      Can you see the difference in flow, Phil? Do the sums. What’s the percentage drop?

      And, to top it off, this year at the height of the wet season it’s received a mere 6 GL.

      The Darling is not flowing because of the drought. Not because of irrigators or Cubby Station’s cotton production (or any of the other irrigators). There’s no water. They can’t irrigate.

      In addition, because of the poor flow and warm temps, there was a green algae bloom which subsequently died off because of a temperature drop. The decomposition of the algae requires O2. (Did you ever do any biological sciences at uni, Phil?). That draws the O2 out of the remaining water in which your precious fish live. Fish, unlike greenies, can’t live in an Oxygen depleted environment. Hypoxia sets in and if it continues death results.

      Now, about cotton farmers.

      I’ll leave it to your superior skills to come back here with an assessment of how much cotton Cubby Station grew last year along with how much water it took from the system. And, you might like to look at how much is is to grow this year. I’m sure you’ll be surprised if you manage the challenge. I don’t expect you will.

      Unfortunately, people like you have little understanding of the realities. You and your ilk just apply your mindless ideology and push the propaganda.

      And you try to tell us you’re scientists? Balonne!

      30

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    Hanrahan

    Johnny Carson asks Jimmy Stewart if he made a new years’ resolution: “Yes, to talk faster”.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTpCbSat1-0

    20

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    philthegeek

    Umm, The Australian Academy of Science (AKA Top Scientists) agree to a Labor Party request to present their findings IN TIME for Bill Shorten to present the results to the next sitting of Parliament! IS that Scientists for political hire or what?

    Great isn’t it. :) Straight out of the Lib / RW playbook. :)

    Are they legally able to fo that? These will almost certainly be Government scientists. I’d be surprised if they are allowed to accept instructions from anyone other than the Government or authorised representatives.

    Yup. No legal impediment if they do it on their own time. Any that work for the PS would have toget instructions not too and would their superiors want to politicize the issue by going there? Would depend on who they actually work for. No doubt there will be squawking from vested interests….like the PM of the moment and the not very bright people who support it. Will be fun to watch. :)

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      Hanrahan

      and would their superiors want to politicize the issue by going there?

      So you agree that it is political, thanks.

      00

      • #
        AndyG55

        Top brass of AAS are only there BECAUSE they are political.

        14

        • #
          AndyG55

          Thanks little red thumbs, you have just CONFIRMED exactly what I said :-)

          Even YOU seem to know that the top of the AAS are just political operatives.

          11

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        philthegeek

        So you agree that it is political

        Certainly has aspects of that to it. :) And this kind of pushback against the ignorant tossers in the RW is well overdue.

        04

  • #
    pat

    CAGW is so selective:

    19 Jan: Forbes: Why Climate Change Would Have Alarmed Dr. Martin Luther King
    by Marshall Shepherd
    (Dr. Marshall Shepherd, Dir., Atmospheric Sciences Program/GA Athletic Assoc. Distinguished Professor (Univ of Georgia), Host, Weather Channel’s Popular Podcast, Weather Geeks, 2013 AMS President)
    As Dr. Martin Luther King’s National Day of Service approaches, I had an interesting thought as a scientist, writer, and human being. Climate change is one of the most significant challenges facing humanity, and its impacts stretch far beyond science. Climate change is often discussed from the lens of agriculture, energy, public health, national security, or weather disasters. However, the most recent U.S. National Climate Assessment report affirms previous studies that climate change disproportionately impacts marginalized, vulnerable, and disadvantaged populations of all races…

    Though I worked at NASA for 12 years, it does not take a rocket science to understand that extreme weather events and climate change are connected…
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/marshallshepherd/2019/01/19/why-climate-change-would-have-alarmed-dr-martin-luther-king/#5da4f3ff28a1

    10

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    pat

    Martin Luther King would definitely want politicians to try to make the earth colder!

    20 Jan: Accuweather: Reports: Snowstorm ramps up in Northeast after turning deadly in Midwest
    By Brian Lada, AccuWeather meteorologist and staff writer
    By Faith Eherts, AccuWeather meteorologist
    The snowstorm that caused nearly a thousand flights to be canceled at Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport is expected to bring difficult and dangerous travel to a large swath of the Northeast through at least Sunday.

    A state of emergency has been declared in Pennsylvania and New Jersey ahead of the storm’s arrival. This includes vehicle restrictions on highways across the states.
    “Feet of snow, blizzard conditions, a significant build-up of ice, tree-breaking winds and plunging temperatures will close roads, cause flight cancellations and disrupt daily activities over a large part of the northeastern United States this weekend,” AccuWeather Senior Meteorologist Alex Sosnowski said…

    The snowstorm will be followed up by a blast of brutally cold air on Sunday night which could be dangerous for those left without power in the wake of the storm…
    https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/reports-snowstorm-ramps-up-in-northeast-after-turning-deadly-in-midwest/70007194

    20 Jan: UK Express: UK weather forecast: ‘DOWNPOURS’ of SNOW and gale force winds to ENGULF the nation
    THE UK is set to be engulfed by heavy snow and battered by gale force winds next week, according to the Met Office.
    By Millie Bull
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/1074907/UK-weather-forecast-snow-forecast-latest-met-office-january-2019

    10

  • #
    John of Cloverdale, Western Australia

    I love the argument that ‘what would you know, you’re not a climate scientist?’
    Well, what would Milankovic know, he wasn’t a climate scientist.
    As far as I can see, climate scientists are the GP’s of the medical world, where specialists know nothing.
    BTW, I am a geoscientist, who specializes in sedimentary cycles, sea level changes, subsurface modeling and paleoclimate. To say I have no expertise to comment on climate change is ridiculous.

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    • #
      RAH

      John of Cloverdale

      Based on your expertise I would like to ask a favor. Could you provide a link to the best global sea level map(s) during the height of the Pleistocene that are available on line?

      60

    • #
      beowulf

      John, please stop obfuscating with logic. The critical criteria for being a climate expert are:

      1) do you know about extinct mammals?
      2) have you described 2 tree kangaroo species and 2 subspecies?
      3) have you recently discovered a half kilogram rat (Ratus detentus) on Manus Island?
      4) have you made umpteen baseless predictions which all flopped?

      No, I thought not. Sorry, you don’t qualify.

      40

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    RAH

    Having nothing to do with climate but thought some might be interested in the liars in the press denying there is a crisis at our southern border during this fight over a border wall/barrier.

    On Friday after I got in I was in the office at the main terminal of the company I drive for I happened to bump into Phil, the director of operations. He is one of the top three in a company that has 800 trucks and eight terminals. I’ve been with the company over 10 years and had never talked to the man because I have always been able to deal with any issues I have had at a lower level and Phil is a very busy guy. But we I ended up talking to him on various subjects for a good 20 minutes. Phil told me that at our Laredo Texas terminal they had two drivers quit to go drive tankers for the oil fields. Drivers are making six figures for doing that work. Both drivers were back with our company within two weeks. Both had been stopped in Texas by roadblocks set up by armed Mexican Cartels. They were told that the road they were driving was only for the use of the Cartel and if they were caught on it again they and their families would be killed.

    100

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    Another Ian

    “GHCN Country Code Changes by Version – MySQL results”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/01/20/ghcn-country-code-changes-by-version-mysql-results/

    “Australiaflux” for instance by the look of it

    00

  • #
    glen Michel

    Has anyone noticed the all time maximum temperature recorded at Narrabri,NSW on 19th January 56.1 ?

    60

    • #
      Ian Hill

      Interesting Glen and good catch! It appears to have occurred around 10:54pm when a reading of 51.4C is shown.

      No doubt the BOM will find this is a set of spurious readings late at night caused by a small fire near the Stevenson screen – or someone doing mischief with a blowtorch, or will they?

      Narrabri, 19 January 2019

      10:30pm: 34.4C
      10:53pm: 40.5C
      10:54pm: 51.4C
      10:55pm: 45.0C
      10:56pm: 40.0C
      10:57pm: 36.6C
      11:00pm: 34.2C

      60

    • #
      glen Michel

      As it happened I was in Narrabri that day picking up a generator.The temperature that morning seemed”normal”.

      70

      • #
        Ian Hill

        The false readings (now corrected on the Jan 2019 page but still in the half hourly page) occurred at night.

        00

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    Another Ian

    The Democratic crystal ball in action

    “30 Minutes before President Trump began to outline his compromise proposal (4:00pm, from the White House), Speaker Nancy Pelosi auto-published the response position of Democrats, NO DEAL:”

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/01/19/speaker-nancy-pelosi-rejects-president-trump-proposal-to-end-shutdown/#more-159071

    Maybe Bill will get a loan of it?

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    • #
      Dennis

      Thank you Ian …

      “We need less government in our lives. The more the Government is in our lives the less freedom one has. We need to push away from Communism like the Polish people have pushed away from Communism. We need to be be skeptical of authority, Communist Authority. Vote for less Government.

      The Government is not your FRIEND Canada. Vote the current government out. All levels. There are none worth cherishing in Canada right now. Cry with Stefan, or suffer the consequences.”

      In my opinion and from my observations in Australia we have been on the march since the 1970s. The preparations commenced when the UN was established and Australian Communist Labor Attorney General Evatt, a lawyer, proposed that UN member nations be encouraged to sign as many treaties with the UN as needed to get around constitutional law, or bypass it, when compliant governments deemed it necessary.

      Prime Minister Howard was once asked by a journalist of international law can be imposed in Australia. He replied that no foreigners can impose on our sovereignty unless the government of the day permits it. I understand that the Australian Constitution requires Referendum to ask the people about changes such as the ongoing proposal for a republic, that apparently Shorten Labor intend to push for via a Plebiscite if elected to government this year. Like Same Sex Marriage amendment postal ballot to the Marriage Act manipulation? Prime Minister Turnbull attempted to reinforce the Paris Agreement via his National Energy Guarantee legislation that did not proceed. Emissions reduction would have become a law that would require a repeal bill to overturn if a future government wanted to dump the Paris Agreement. Shorten Labor in government will sign the UN Compact on Refugees that was rejected by the US and other countries, UN overriding our Immigration Department and laws.

      UN Agenda 21 and Agenda 30 are being implemented here and we the people have never been consulted, no Referendum for major changes impacting on our lives.

      Clearly we have a cooperative of politicians and no opposition when socialism globalism issues are presented. The government of the day signs and ratifies UN Paris Agreement for example, introduced RET and subsidies, bans 2-stroke petrol engine sales, plans to ban diesel engines and later petrol engines and pushes for an EV fleet, all for man-made global warming by carbon dioxide hoax agenda. The economy is vandalised, the cost of living skyrockets up via electricity and gas pricing, goods and services going up as energy costs increase, etc.

      I feel very uncomfortable and worried.

      My solution will be a ballot box vote against the now opposition and the government parties in the House of Representatives and the Senate. But I will be very cautious about choosing a candidate for my primary vote, particularly an “independent” candidate, keeping in mind the 2010 federal election hung parliament result and the “independents” who supported the alliance minority Labor Government that was formed. I have already spotted a green “Independent” group in local government “New Independents” logo.

      50

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    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

    Morning all,
    There was quite a severe thunderstorm over and around me last night. Blackout since about 11 pm (Sunday Jan 20). Have been trying to report it since 6:30 am (Monday Jan 21), but the emergency line is apparently being flooded with calls. “Please call back in an hour” from a recorded message each time I’ve tried.
    But another part of the message is to try their website “essentialenergy.com.au”. Guess what – that’s not working either.
    On previous occassions their message has included a statement of what areas are affected. Not this time.
    Does anyone know the extent of this outage? Its cause?
    Cheers,
    Dave B

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      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        Thanks P F,
        That link worked this time. Still no joy trying to talk to them, but as we’re on a spur line out of Mudgee I guess it’ll all come back some time.
        Cheers,
        Dave B

        30

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Spur lines will take longer. If it’s any comfort, decisions taken to reduce maintenance spend in favour of head office salaries will have a negative impact on repair times. When we challenged these decisions, we were told it was cheaper to pay the fines which will be imposed for overlong outages than to pay to have a reasonable response. Part of the problem is also that outages and restoration times are based on averages for the state, which includes ‘NSW’ (Newcastle, Sydney, Wollongong), and as you would know, to get an experienced (based on the outage – high voltage certified), crew to your outage will take around 4 times the effort than one in ‘NSW’.

          50

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      In case you’re interested:
      I eventually got to speak to someone In Essential Energy and established that there was no one else reporting a problem in my area. Within 2 hours of that call a repair team arrived and replaced the two drop down switches (which hadn’t actually dropped) and I had power again.
      I think the big bang I heard last night was the result of the fuses blowing…
      But the surge had clobbered my NBN box (or its power supply) and also my cordless phone.
      A Telstra repairperson will come out on Wednesday morning to investigate and hopefully fix my NBN. In the mean time I’ve charged my various batteries…
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      10

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    RAH

    I just took a little trip to the store and am glad I did. Natures God has made my area as beautiful as it can get. The skies are clear and sun is dropping low in the west and when one looks out over the ice incrusted fields and the iced trees beyond it looks like the world is covered in diamonds. Just beautiful. Current temp 17 F with a forecast low tonight of -9 F. We might get above freezing for a short time on Wednesday this week and then it’s back down into the cellar.

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    Dennis

    In moderation 46.1

    01

  • #
    TdeF

    What would Donald know about Climate?

    “President Donald Trump urged Americans affected by the winter storm to “be careful” in a tweet early Sunday, but, as he’s done in the past, he conflated the short-term weather phenomenon with longer-term climate change.

    The White House’s own National Climate Assessment recently rejected the idea that a particular plunge in temperatures can cast uncertainty on whether Earth is warming.

    “Amazing how big this system is,” Trump tweeted. “Wouldn’t be bad to have a little of that good old fashioned Global Warming right now!

    The so called White House report is required by a law since 1990.

    Trump told reporters Monday, he “didn’t believe it.” As the East coast is buried in snow with -35, where’s the Global Warming?

    Or is he another of the billions of non climate scientists who after thirty long years of runaway, tipping point, Armageddon warming do not believe Global Warming, man made or not? Surely by now Al Gore knows the Inconvenient Truth. It’s not happening.

    __

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      TdeF

      It’s really amazing. 30 years, even 60 years of rapid Global Warming and rapid sea rise and no one can tell the difference. Except journalists and ‘Climate Scientists’ whose jobs depend utterly on man made ‘Climate Change’.
      The press do not smell a rat after half a lifetime because Global Warming means the ultimate destruction of Western society and replacement with a UN/EU socialist nirvana without elections. They are terribly worried though about the survival of specific coffee bean varieties. Says it all.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Exactly what is meant when using the term ‘rapid’. For a Geologist, most change would be classified as rapid. If you are saying that the change should be rapid in terms of our timeframe (70 years according to the good book) then it is obvious that it is not that.

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        • #
          TdeF

          Of course it means rapid in human terms, not geological. Every ten years we are told we have to act decisively as we only have ten years to act. Rapid means ten years before disaster. In 1988 it meant +5C of global average temperature in only 100 years.

          It meant 100 metres of sea rise in 100 years, as we were told by former ABC resident science adviser Robyn Williams. How much more rapid can you get, short of having to run from a tsunami? On a geologic time scale, humans don’t exist.

          102

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            TdeF

            The first thermometers was invented in 1700. Freezing to death was prophesied in the 1970s. Then in 1988 it was boiling to death. Same data. Neither happened.

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            Peter Fitzroy

            Those values quoted were at the upper range of the IPCC predictions, a point you seem to ignore. That being said, it is still a possibility, given the current trends.

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          • #

            Once we had enough sea level rise to fill Bass Strait, less than eleven thousand years back. Now with a dribble of warming we can manage just a dribble of sea level rise…
            http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/rlr.monthly.plots/65.png

            Don’t ask me for any predictions or values from upper, mid or lower range predictions. Just go find a geologically stable spot by the water and stare till common sense dawns through the fog or predictions, projections…and even those values!

            Of all the beat-ups by the climatariat, sea levels are the biggest and most blatant. The motto of the IPCC should be Stulti Numquam Verificant…Mugs Never Check.

            Trouble is, not everyone’s a mug.

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            • #

              Here’s the rest of the Fort Denison info, chopping off the early 1900s and taking us up closer to now…
              https://tinyurl.com/y6uo24fg

              I could be clever and show Stockholm or Juneau sea levels actually going down. But I reckon if you constantly try to make a goose of someone with tricky stats and factoids you turn into a goose yourself. Just look at the climatariat.

              Honk, honk.

              12

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        Dennis

        I discovered that George Soros and Associates have substantial shareholdings in world media companies TdeF.

        He purchased several million dollars of CH9 shares, about ten years ago from memory.

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    RAH

    Full lunar eclipse tonight of a “super moon”. Sorry you folks down under are not exactly in the best place to see it even if you have clear skies. But I will be out to view that big moon go from blood red to pink and then have it’s disc covered https://www.theepochtimes.com/super-blood-wolf-moon-to-get-star-billing-in-weekend-lunar-eclipse_2771694.html

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    Experts reveal solar panels lost nearly 20 per cent of their efficiency in …
    Daily Telegraph-20 hours ago
    Experts reveal solar panels lost nearly 20 per cent of their efficiency in NSW…
    Leading academics researching the effect of heat on solar panels said older models lost 0.5 per cent of their efficiency for every degree their temperature went over 25C…

    16 Jan: Blue&GreenTomorrow: Can Solar Panels Overheat?
    By Rehan Ijaz
    You should know that solar panels that get too much heat can overheat. It’s a design flaw that engineers are working to correct, but for the time being, it’s important for the owners of solar panels to understand how to handle this problem…
    Solar panels installed on a residential home are typically tested for optimum efficiency at 77 degrees F. Ultimately, you want to aim for an exterior temperature range of 59 to 95 degrees.

    But it’s unrealistic for solar panels to maintain this range naturally, particularly in hot environments where the sun shines 75 percent of the time. With the sun beating down on them, they can get to well above 100 degrees.

    Most solar panels are built to withstand heat up to 149 degrees. At that point, solar-cell efficiency will begin to decline significantly, and it likely won’t retain any more heat. If you were to touch these panels at this temperature or beyond, it could burn your skin slightly. Plus, your energy efficiency falls by about 60 percent (LINK)…

    Typically, industrial solar panels are designed to handle more heat than those in the residential sector. Once your solar panels surpass the optimum range of efficiency, they’ll begin to lose energy, no matter how they were designed…

    You can also cover your solar panels on days when the weather is expected to be too hot. Many solar panel owners in hot climates such as Arizona let their solar panels collect energy for a few hours in the morning and evening and cover them during the hottest part of the day.
    https://blueandgreentomorrow.com/energy/can-solar-panels-overheat/

    above links to:

    Aug 2017: UK Times: Desert sun in Qatar too hot for solar panels to work
    by Emily Gosden
    Summer temperatures that can reach 50C, combined with the build-up of dust, can reduce the efficiency of a photovoltaic panel by more than half…

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      Dennis

      Fit an umbrella for too hot days Pat?

      lol

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    • #
      Another Ian

      Pat

      “You can also cover your solar panels on days when the weather is expected to be too hot. Many solar panel owners in hot climates such as Arizona let their solar panels collect energy for a few hours in the morning and evening and cover them during the hottest part of the day.”

      No doubt there will be a demand for an app for that?

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      theRealUniverse

      ‘Leading academics researching the effect of heat on solar panels ‘.. that is a problem for the engineers in the panel manufacturers to solve. the sort of thing Bell labs, etc, USED, to do once!

      20

  • #
    toorightmate

    I have been in 4 different areas in 3 different states for the past 6 weeks and have experienced three unexplained 2 hour blackouts.
    Is power being randomly cut off at present due to “network stress”? (ie not enough coal fired power stations.)

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    • #
      Dennis

      It has been reported here that large consumers of electricity are being compensated with taxpayer’s monies to shut down during peak demand periods to help keep the electricity grid stable.

      100

  • #
    pat

    theirABC jumps on every bit of seeming anti-Trump FakeNews going the rounds, giving massive space to this one & repeating it on radio (probably TV as well, for all I know):

    20 Jan: ABC: Teenagers in MAGA caps stare down native American protester during Washington DC rally
    by AP/ABC
    A diocese in Kentucky is looking into videos that show young men, possibly from its all-male high school, mocking Native Americans outside the Lincoln Memorial after a rally in Washington…
    Other teenagers, some wearing Covington clothing and many wearing “Make America Great Again” hats and sweatshirts, surrounded them, laughing and jeering…

    The man playing the drum was identified by the “Indian Country Today” website as Nathan Phillips, an Omaha elder and Vietnam veteran who holds an annual ceremony honouring native American veterans at Arlington National Cemetery.
    “When I was there singing, I heard them saying ‘Build that wall, build that wall,’” Mr Phillips said, as he wiped away tears in a video posted on Instagram…
    He said he wished the group would put their energy into “making this country really great”.
    Mr Phillips later told the Washington Post he was thinking about his dead wife and the struggles faced by indigenous communities while being taunted by the high school students.
    He said he “felt like the spirit was talking through me”…

    Congresswoman Deb Haaland of New Mexico, who had been at the rally earlier in the day, sharply criticised what she called a display of “blatant hate, disrespect, and intolerance.”
    “This veteran put his life on the line for our country,” she tweeted Saturday. “Heartbreaking.”
    Sisters of Mercy, a group of Roman Catholic women who take vows of poverty, chastity, obedience and service, decried the “bigoted” behaviour…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-20/boys-in-maga-caps-stare-down-native-american-protester/10730044

    plenty of people online noted it was another fake story as soon as the video was posted and analysed. now:

    19 Jan: Big League Politics: Video Evidence Shows Lying Media Falsely Slimed Teenagers for Interaction with Native American Man at March for Life
    By Peter D’Abrosca
    Less than 12 hours after Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III had to debunk a false BuzzFeed story that accused President Donald J. Trump of felonious activity, the website was back at it, this time smearing teenagers in MAGA hats who were confronted by an elderly Native American man at the March for Life in Washington, D.C.
    “The MAGA Hat–Wearing Teens Who Taunted A Native American Elder Could Be Expelled,” said an updated BuzzFeed headline.

    Several other media outlets printed such smears against the boy from Covington Catholic High School in Kentucky…
    “Boys in ‘Make America Great Again’ Hats Mob Native Elder at Indigenous Peoples March,” said the New York Times in one of the more egregiously wrong headlines…etc

    The press also accused the boys of chanting “build the wall” at the Native man, which cannot be heard in any video of the incident.
    There is a larger problem, though, with the media’s narrative on this story.

    Indisputable video evidence of the entire interaction shows the Native man approaching the boys as they stood doing school chants on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. The press blatantly flipped the narrative around. The boy at the center of the video, who has been demonized and doxxed by internet crazies, did not approach the Native man. The Native man approached him…

    This attack on obviously-innocent teenagers is one of the grosser smear jobs by the mainstream press in recent memory. Just when you thought the media could not stoop any lower.
    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/video-evidence-shows-lying-media-falsely-slimed-teenagers-for-interaction-with-native-american-man-at-march-for-life/

    meanwhile, the fake story is still all over the media in the US and no doubt elsewhere.

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    pat

    Zofia’s second contribution to ABC’s The Science Show – see earlier link below.

    from 31min in, it rarely veers from CAGW – Zofia taking part in the student climate protests, deniers in US Govt, as in Canberra, must trust the scientists, etc etc.

    AUDIO: 53min52sec: 19 Jan: ABC The Science Show: Robyn Williams: How young people view our scientific world – and our uncertain future
    Do young people understand the importance of science? Zofia Witkowski-Blake, a senior student at Mac.Robertson Girls’ High School in Melbourne set to find out. Zofia speaks to fellow students about their feelings towards studying science, how they see the relevance of science and their views and fears for the future. Zofia also speaks to science minister Karen Andrews, shadow minister Kim Carr and newly appointed director of Australia’s Space Agency, Megan Clark.
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/how-young-people-view-our-scientific-world-%E2%80%93-and-our-uncertain/10726198

    Apr 2017: ABC The Science Show: Insects the next superfood?
    The environmental impact of eating meat is high. Not only are emissions from rearing animals a significant contributor to atmospheric greenhouse gases, but there are large input costs from grain, water and land degradation…
    Zofia Witkowski-Blake asks whether we might get over our reluctance to consuming insects and ponders if crickets could be the new kale.
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/insects-the-next-superfood/8480180

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      TdeF

      We will need to farm insects, the highest generators of methane. The problem is the 7 billion people and the endless wildlife engaged in the carbon cycle of life and death, which must be stopped. To save the planet.

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        pat

        TdeF -

        meant to mention in the more recent ABC “The Science Show”, Zofia or one of her school pals who seem to believe they are the most informed people ever to inhabit the planet – cos of the internet – can’t believe we don’t have solar arrays all over the centre of the Australian desert where there’s so much sun.

        of course, like me until recently when I read about the inefficiency of a Pakistan solar farm because of too much heat, plus maintenance for dust, etc, these school-children know nothing about the overheating of solar panels, as per comment #52.

        Robyn Williams isn’t a man to correct them.

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          pat

          Wikipedia: Quaid-e-Azam Solar Park (Pakistan)
          Quaid-e-Azam Solar Park was unable to produce affordable energy and expected output , due to several reasons:
          1. Bahawalpur is desert terrain , having high dust count, therefore , the efficiency of panels were reduced by 40%. It required 30 people to clean panels with 15 days to restore the panels back to their full capacity, which reduced production of installed 100MW plant to below 18 MW…

          3. The temperature of Bahawalpur rises above 45 degree celsius, which is much higher than required 25 degree celsius, for efficient solar power production; another reason of reduced 18MW production…

          Due to all aforesaid, the project faced long-term operational hurdles and conflicts with National Electric Power Regulatory Authority (NEPRA)…

          Although the bidding process was due to be completed in April , 2018, however, the process got delayed, because of Quaid-e-Azam solar park corruption probe by National Accountability Bureau (NAB) and notice of Chief Justice of Pakistan Mian Saqib Nisar[50], after heavy misappropriation were found in Auditor General of Pakistan (AGP)’s report.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaid-e-Azam_Solar_Park

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          Bill In Oz

          Pat, why were you listening to Robyn Williams on the Science show.It only all about his opinions//with the odd ray of real science nowadays

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    Dennis

    Following on from comments #28 above, I quoted the Book of Ezekiel as a reference point regarding the past history and afterwards carried out a search to refresh my memory.

    The following link should be of interest to at least some commentators here, regarding flying machines in recorded history …

    http://yowusa.com/war/2012/war-2012-02a/1.shtml

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    • #
      RicDre

      I believe that theory was proposed in the book Chariots of the Gods? by Erich Von Daniken which was published in 1968.

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      • #
        Dennis

        Yes, but he was written off to be a lunatic and was not treated very well at all for his theories.

        However as the link #56 information shows there are references to flying objects in ancient records.

        The tales of Mu, Atlantis, others.

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        • #
          beowulf

          You need to get hold of “The Spaceships of Ezekial” which has probably been out of print for 45 years, then you need to read some commentaries on the vedic Mahabharata and Ramayana for descriptions of massive aerial battles over ancient India . . . “I am become death, the destroyer of worlds” and all that good stuff.

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  • #
    pat

    20 Jan: Townhall: A ‘Revenue Neutral’ Carbon Tax Is a Costly Myth
    by James Taylor
    The Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, and other media outlets are reporting that a bipartisan group of top economic advisors has signed a statement supporting a carbon dioxide tax that returns all revenue to the American people. Prominent signatories include Alan Greenspan, Paul Volcker, and Ben Bernanke. Expect this to be a big messaging point in the weeks and months ahead for global warming activists…

    More atmospheric carbon dioxide and gradually warming temperatures have brought net benefits to human health and welfare (LINK)…

    Even if these economists remain unconvinced that carbon dioxide emissions and modest global warming bring net benefits, there are crucial flaws in their argument for a ‘revenue neutral’ carbon dioxide tax.
    Here are the three biggest flaws of a ‘revenue neutral’ carbon dioxide tax designed to appeal to Republicans and conservatives (LINK)…READ ON
    https://townhall.com/columnists/jamestaylor/2019/01/20/a-revenue-neutral-carbon-tax-is-a-costly-myth-n2539287

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    pat

    more self-love at theirABC:

    21 Jan: ABC: ABC Melbourne radio broadcaster Jon Faine announces he’ll retire at the end of 2019
    ABC Radio Melbourne By Nicole Mills
    ABC Radio Melbourne manager Dina Rosendorff said Faine’s early announcement meant both ABC staff and his loyal audience would have plenty of time to get used to not hearing him on the airwaves next year…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-21/abc-melbourne-host-jon-faine-announces-retirement-at-end-of-2019/10723618

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      Dennis

      Oh dear, how sad.

      sarc

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      • #
        Serp

        He’ll be replaced by a younger (possibly trans if they can train one up) social justice warrior with an even more closed mind than he displays but it’s highly doubtful his preening self regard could be surpassed.

        Others will have to wait and witness that as I haven’t heard a syllable from the repellent Mister Faine in nearly two years having set the alarm for the early fifteen minute news bulletin and traffic report following which I can seldom stomach more than the AM headlines.

        There was a time when the ABC was an organ of record but those days are long gone; it ought to be wound up and thus generate a nationally beneficial side effect in that its group thinking inhabitants may finally experience the reality of the world beyond their bubble.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      No problems Jon I never listened before, now or plan to in 2019, having said that during my very early morning commute to work in western Victoria my radio will only pick up three stations ABC Classical FM, JJJ and ABC talkback with Trevor Chappell, when the propaganda gets too much I change to Classical or play a CD (yes they do exist).

      This morning they were discussing the 1939 Black Friday Fires and luckily got an elderly gentleman who was living nearby and ten years old when the fire decimated 20,000 km2 of land, it was fascinating to listen about the way people managed and he recounted the story of how his relatives travelled to remote areas and opened up the land to settle, the best part was when the host asked how hot it was then to now with the old chap laughing saying we don’t know what hot is and recalled heat waves that went for weeks over 45C not dropping under 30C at night, the host was very quiet for a while and changed the conversation when he could.

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      robert rosicka

      Good riddance , one less greentard to worry about .

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  • #
    David Maddison

    If the world ever realises that AGW is a lie and that we are very predictably heading toward global cooling and a magnetic pole reversal (which can happen within a lifetime) and we are unprepared, the world will lose faith in scientists due to a few corrupt and incompetent ones that promoted AGW contrary to any evidence and ignored the other forthcoming catastrophes.

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  • #
    pat

    19 Jan: Jan: CNBC: Trump is going to dominate Davos – even though he won’t be there
    •President Donald Trump and his cabinet are skipping out on Davos this week, but he’ll still be the biggest presence at the annual gathering of the world’s richest and most powerful people.
    by Hugh Son
    Anxiety about the end of the old world order is sure to be on the minds of the Davos set – a list of attendees including billionaires Bill Gates, Ray Dalio and George Soros – a group who have been huge beneficiaries of the stability of the previous era.
    “The American order is over, and we don’t know what the next order will be yet,” said Ian Bremmer, founder of consultancy Eurasia Group. “It’s a much more dangerous, chaotic period we are entering, and what people attending Davos need to think about is how to ensure resilience given the coming shocks.”…

    So once again, the world will pay close attention to what the Davos set has to say, from business leaders including Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon and Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi to politicians such as German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Japan’s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.
    But the 3,000 or so elites who convene at Davos to chart out a future of increasing prosperity and connectedness have a spotty record at making predictions. They dismissed Trump’s chances before he rose to the world’s most powerful job; they didn’t see the 2008 financial crisis coming.
    The single best quote about Davos, attributed to perenniel attendee J.P. Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon is: “Davos is where billionaires tell millionaires how the middle class feels.”…

    There will be ***high-minded sessions on global climate change and gender equality, but the real value of Davos is for attendees to form relationships and seal deals, surrounded by their peers and basking in the glow of celebrities like Prince William and musician Will.I.Am…
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/trump-is-going-to-dominate-davos–even-though-he-wont-be-there.html

    ***”high-minded sessions on global climate change”, but they won’t use the public transport!

    20 Jan: Bloomberg: It’s Limos Versus Locals When the Elite Gather for Davos
    Jammed-up traffic is residents’ top complaint to mayor
    By Catherine Bosley; With assistance by Mara Bernath, Eric Martin, and Gem Atkinson
    The droves of black limousines on the snow-covered streets of Davos during the World Economic Forum are frustrating the locals of the Swiss mountain town…
    In a country where the central bank chief and government ministers regularly take public transport, the failure of Forum attendees to do the same is the top complaint of the town’s 11,000 residents. They say traffic gets so snarled it becomes dangerous for children to walk to school…

    “People wear leather dress shoes and then use the limousines because they don’t want to slip on the ice,” said Ladina Alioth, a teacher and mother of three recently elected to the local legislature. She’s proud to host the WEF and but says last year it was too disruptive. “I wear boots and pack the shoes I wear indoors — why can’t they do that too?”…

    Luxury does have its price: Traveling to Davos with a hired car from Zurich airport costs about 800 francs to 1,500 francs, with only marginal — if any — time saving over the train. A first-class rail ticket is only about 50 francs, though you have to change trains. The WEF ’Round the clock service during the WEF, including pickup and drop-off at Zurich airport, can cost 20,000 francs…
    In response to the complaints, this January authorities are building a temporary train station just below the conference center. Mayor Tarzisius Caviezel says he hopes that will get more people onto public transport…

    Managing director Alois Zwinggi has sympathy for those who might not feel comfortable using public transport, but says it’s also the Forum’s job to raise awareness: “Welcome to Switzerland. You can take the train, you can take the bus, you won’t get lost.”
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-20/it-s-limos-versus-locals-when-the-elite-gather-for-davos

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  • #

    Since Plato the so called ‘Noble Lie’ top of the list of deadly sins along with murder; one destroys human bodies, the other destroys human minds… Beware the guru and his flock of sheeples. Every hubris-attempt to create Utopia on earth has wrought its reverse.

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  • #
    Analitik

    NSW Greens MP, Cate Faehrmann

    I’m ‘coming out’ about drugs: it’s time get real about pill testing
    It’s beyond time for an honest discussion about drugs if we are to keep young people safe who choose to take them.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-m-coming-out-about-drugs-it-s-time-get-real-about-pill-testing-20190120-p50shc.html

    Crossbench to use numbers to pressure Victorian Government to introduce pill testing. The group includes Reason Party’s Fiona Patten, the Greens leader Samantha Ratnam, two Liberal Democrats, the Animal Justice Party’s Andy Meddick and independent Catherine Cumming.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-21/pill-testing-pressure-on-the-victorian-government/10730382

    WTF is all this molly-coddling for morons who are not only dumb enough to take party drugs but will take them off total strangers???
    Just remove the ambos from these “events” and let them die.

    As 2 wise men once wrote

    Think of it as evolution in action

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    • #
      Dennis

      The new party venue authorities: First the pill testing team, next the K9 Sniffer Dog Squad and outside Paddy’s wagon.

      30

      • #
        Analitik

        And imagine the legal ramifications if there is government provided/sponsored pill testing and then someone still dies while party tripping.

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      toorightmate

      It is a bit like condoning murder, but checking the gun beforehand to ensure it does not backfire and harm the shooter.

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    • #
      RickWill

      It is an aid to natural selection but can be an expensive death penalty or long-term debilitating organ problems.

      I know of three examples, all around the same time and location, where the victims managed to make hospital. One died the first night. The second lasted almost a week without regaining consciousness while the third was recovering and out of emergency care when he also died. This was particularly tough on his family because they had hope of some level of recovery.

      All three had massive organ damage. The one who began to recover needed a kidney donor but died before that was arranged. I do not know if the medical staff or coroner ever worked out what was in the chemical concoction they ingested.

      Personal responsibility is the most effective control – simple. Substituting external controls for personal responsibility breeds disrespectful individuals.

      I wonder if you asked a group of teenagers a multi-choice question like:
      1. I never take drugs of any type.
      2. I have had alcohol but only with my parents’ knowledge.
      3. I have taken alcohol at a party once or twice.
      4. I have taken party drugs once or twice.
      5. I take party drugs regularly.
      6. I think I am addicted to drugs.

      And ask them to answer honestly as well as answer what they think their parents would hope their answer to be, what the result would look like. Point of the question is to assess if they are aware of the risk.

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  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    ALARMIST CATE AN EVIDENCE DENIER . . .
    Living in her fantasy world of ‘settled’ science.
    GeoffW

    20

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Food for thought .

    Thousands of years ago if there was a flood or drought , men dressed in white feathers demanded a sacrifice to appease the gods .
    Fast forward to the present and if there’s a drought or a flood , men dressed in white coats demand a sacrifice.
    My how society has advanced and now as way back when it’s was all based on a handful of witch doctors making predictions .

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Or, years ago a goat was sacrificed by a shaman to appease spirits.

      Today UN pandering climate scientists strangle a cock.

      20

  • #
    el gordo

    Bob Tisdale explains that El Nino is the cause of temperature increase.

    https://bobtisdale.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/figure-1-3.png

    Keep in mind Cook’s escalator.

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  • #
    el gordo

    Whitehouse joins the fray on OHC, we simply don’t know if the oceans are warming.

    http://www.thegwpf.com/ocean-warming-inadequate-data-unknown-errors/

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  • #
    Bill In Oz

    Hanrahan, do you have a link for the information you provided above about Cubbie station and it’s use of water for irrigation ?

    I keep reading remarks that it is the big cotton rowers like Cubbie which are the reason for the Darling drying up and the Menindie lakes allso..so some factual info setting out the reality is welcome.

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    • #
      Peter C

      Yea facts would be good. It could be the DROUGHT causing low water flow.

      But even more we have to decide how our scarce water should be used. Do we grow crops or do we flush it down to the sea?

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        Do we grow crops or do we flush it down to the sea?

        Or do we use it where it falls, avoiding the massive evaporative losses trickling thousands of miles south.

        Cubbie’s website speaks of efficient storage reducing evaporative losses without going into detail. It is possible that they recharge underground water basins. This is done in the Burdekin delta where water from the Burdekin Falls Dam is used to recharge the aquifer that is only a couple of metres down. I looked at Cubbie on google earth [I research the things that interest me] and there are no visible dams so their claim is credible.

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      I did a search, found their own website and cut/n/pasted.

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      BTW, I once had an interest in our fresh water native fishes in aquaria, mainly the rainbow, splendida splendida being the most common. These pretty little fish can only survive while there is water trickling down watercourses so if Cubbie was damming the river preventing these flows I would not be making excuses.

      I know of two northern species that are now extinct, The echamensii from L. Echam and the maculachii, a pretty little fish from a creek north of Cardwell. The first because some bright spark introduced archer fish into the lake and the second, I assume, because it was too close to farms.

      So I too am a greenie.

      As creeks dry up into puddles and the water gets hot, these fragile little fish will be the last survivors. In a community aquarium [they are perfect in them] with a runaway heater they may be the only ones alive when you get home.

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        A little more on L. Eacham [I've been spelling that wrong] and our state wildlife departments.

        Eacham is a crater lake with no outflow so it is impossible that the archer fish could have made it there on it’s own. The archer itself is an interesting fish in your home tank but NOT in the community tank. It is famous for spitting water at insects and then grabbing them when they land in the water. Mine used to to spit at my chest if I walked past with no shirt on [two brown moths]. But it has a big mouth and no small fish are safe around it.

        Eacham is STILL a protected fishery in spite of its degraded state. Why not open it up to fly fishers? They would bite on a fly the same as a trout and I think they would fight harder. That would reduce a noxious pest [too late though] and provide sport and profit for the local community.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4G_MeUUZlI

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        • #
          Hanrahan

          Its late at night and I’m on a roll. :D

          State wildlife departments are a logic-free zone. Years ago the foxtail palm gained popularity. I’m not sure where the native stand was but it was north of Cairns. The tree has a lot going for it and the retail trade clamoured for plants so “poachers” took the long drive to harvest seeds, cutting down the palms if they were too high. Naturally the relevant department made all ownership, harvesting, reselling the plant illegal. But by then thousands of seeds had been brought south into the black market and thousands of other confiscated seeds were given to councils etc. Years later all these domestic trees and those on council property [with dubious heritage] were flowering but STILL the blanket ban on germinating the seeds remained. How does banning propagation of a plant protect it from poaching in the wild?

          Credit where it is due, NSW treated the wollemia pine differently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wollemia

          While protecting the native source every effort has been made to make the plant available to enthusiasts and it is available worldwide. While incredibly rare in the wild [Attenborough couldn't find one :) ] it’s survival is guaranteed.

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          • #
            beowulf

            Attenborough couldn’t find the fly on his own pants without a TV crew there to show him. He doesn’t have the ethics of David Bellamy which is why he is a BBC darling, soon to be eclipsed by that smirking dropkick Brian Cox.

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        robert rosicka

        Hanrahan the difference between you and a greenie is your interested in conservation .

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    I did, here is the take away “later in 2016 the typical westerly winds that surround Antarctica weakened to record lows. This caused the ocean surface to warm up, promoting less sea ice cover.”
    not a sausage about volcanoes.

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  • #
    philthegeek

    Lol! A current growth industry opportunity.

    Fact Checking. :)

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      AndyG55

      roflmao.. You really have a chronic case of TDS, don’t you phlip.

      So much so that you have to rely on the gruniad for you daily does of derangement

      So funny. !

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      Peter C

      Indeed, according to the Fact Checker database, Trump has made 7,645 “false or misleading claims” since taking office. The most repeated lie – 187 times and counting – is that the Russia investigation is a “witch hunt”, followed by Trump’s assertion, made 125 times, that his government passed “the biggest tax cuts in the history of our country”.

      Are these “facts” or “Lies”

      I would say that are more TRUE than false. Surely the Russia Investigation is a “witch hunt” It was set in motion by the Democrat Party.

      Secondly, with respect to the tax cuts, by what measure are they not the biggest?

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        Have Americans never heard of “hyperbowl”? One of our least erudite PMs had, even if she couldn’t pronounce it.

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      RAH

      LOL! When president Trump said the hamburgers he served to the Clemson Tiger football team were stacked “a mile high” they actually “fact checked” that statement.
      Personally I don’t get my facts from highly paid self important, humorless, professional spinners and liars, and that is exactly what the legacy press and their “fact checkers” are. People I wouldn’t trust to take care of my dog. There is not a day they don’t lie and right now as I write this they are doing so to destroy the lives of a bunch of Catholic kids in their scramble to paint anyone that wears as MAGA hat as a racist. They are disgusting people. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/01/20/delingpole-left-wing-and-the-right-attack-kids-to-demonstrate-virtue/

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        robert rosicka

        Seen pics of what Trump served up and wish I was there .

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          RAH

          One has to remember that those kids were eating at a training table well before their football season began right through until the season ended. Their menus regulated by dieticians. And you can be sure that Big Macs, Whoopers and fries had been rare treats during that time. One does not make national football champions on a diet of Sugar Pops and Cheeseburgers. Even for College programs that do not have a strict adherence to the training table the fare is regulated to some extent one way or another. Back in the mid 70′s I was a student at Indiana University, Bloomington, IN. I lived in McNutt Quad which is where a heck of a lot of the jocks lived because it was close to the athletic complex. I was eating in the Quad cafeteria with the likes of Kent Benson, Scotty May, and Bobby Wilkerson who were starters on a team that became undefeated NCAA champs in basketball. (I attended every home game that season) The fare served at that cafeteria reflected the fact that so many athletes lived and ate there.

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        Hanrahan

        The morning Fox show is repeated here and it seems that at least a couple of knockers have watched the whole vid and apologised. Lies are on the front page, retractions on page 17.

        Way up top of this unthread I lamented the massive divide in US society. Am I unduly pessimistic RAH?

        It has long been held that we are just a few years behind the US so my interest is somewhat selfish.

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          RAH

          Being a student of American History I would say that yes, you are being overly pessimistic. I sometimes also get the feeling that we’re headed for a civil war but then I remember what I have learned from reading our history. We have always been divided, from the time of our revolution to the present and even in times when common cause was most powerful because the nation was at risk. And yet, with one exception, we seem to manage to make it through and resolve or differences before we make war on each other. The thing is, the America you get in the press is not the America that I live in and know on a day to day basis.

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          RAH

          BTW all the corrections in the world will not heal the wounds those kids and their families have sustained. They are receiving death threats for goodness sake. All because of a failure to even try and get the facts straight before “reporting” on the incident and all of those that failed to do their own investigation to determine the facts before piling on. It happens time and again.

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            robert rosicka

            Abc here in oz have written an update (whatever that means) on the story pointing out that there was more to the story than reported .
            A Claytons apology.

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    Peter C

    Dear Senator Carr,

    Did you receive my email?
    I have not received an acknowledgement.
    Are you even interested in how our public money is spent at the James Cook University?

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    pat

    watching tennis on channel 9, I caught a story on the news re Queensland schools can’t afford to turn on airconditioners because of the high cost of electricity.

    found most of the other news stories I saw on the Channel 9 website, but not this particular one.
    however, channel 9 has not one, but two, videos promoting the FAKE story about the young MAGA-cap-wearing schoolboys in DC! go figure.

    meanwhile, theirABC doesn’t mention the cost of electricity bills at all. it all comes down to people’s socio-economic background! in fact, the Qld govt simply pays for the electricity for schools north of Gladstone and in west Qld and not for schools in south east Qld.

    20 Jan: ABC: Air-conditioning in all Queensland state schools still 10 years away
    By Melinda Howells
    Parents and teachers say the Queensland Government’s policy on air-conditioning in state schools is unfair, disadvantaging some students based on their postcode, or socio-economic background.
    The State Government provides funding to fully air-condition public schools in the north and west of Queensland, but schools south of Gladstone must find alternative funding if they wish to install climate control…

    Associate Professor in Child Development and Learning at the University of the Sunshine Coast, Dr Michael Nagel, said research has shown that high temperatures impede learning.
    ???”Heat is the worst thing for the brain,” he said.
    “It can fog our thinking, it can impact upon our ability to do cognition or higher order thinking and it can change our behaviour.
    “When the ambient temperature of a room hits about 28 degrees we know reading comprehension diminishes.
    “We also know when it hits 25 degrees that mathematical skills tend to decline.”…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-20/air-conditioning-in-all-queensland-schools-still-10-years-away/10720926

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      Hanrahan

      But seriously, kids don’t feel the heat so much. They run around in the tropical sun, same as we did. Is it really the teachers insisting on the same conditions as private sector professionals?

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    pat

    21 Jan: UK Times: Thousands still buying dirty wood‑burners
    by Ben Webster
    More than 100,000 dirty wood-burning stoves were sold last year despite promises by the government and stove industry to cut the pollution they cause.
    “Ecodesign” stoves, which reduce harmful emissions by 80 per cent, were launched two years ago but accounted for only 30 per cent of the 170,000 stoves sold in Britain last year…

    20 Jan: Alexa, can you read the meter?
    Amazon wants a digital helper to give it a voice in the energy sector
    by Rachel Millard

    excerpts from the above:

    20 Jan: ElectricityInfo: UK Times:
    Big utilities such as EDF and British Gas have enabled customers to use Alexa to manage their accounts in an effort to build stronger relationships by making their lives easier…
    Electricity supply is becoming increasingly sophisticated, decentralised and tailored to individuals’ homes and streets – creating further opportunities for Alexa and similar services. Challenger brand Octopus Energy sells a tariff that allows households to use electricity when it is in less demand and therefore less expensive – and it has enabled Alexa to work this out and pass on the message. For example, customers can say: “Alexa, I want to turn on the tumble dryer when it is cheapest and greenest.” Alexa might respond: “I’ll do it at 8am, when it’s 75% cheaper than it is now.”…

    The energy regulator Ofgem wants more companies to provide such “time of use” tariffs, while plans for owners of electric cars to be able to sell electricity from their vehicles back to the grid are also expected to create opportunities…
    http://electricityinfo.org/news/utilities-162/

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    pat

    SE-Qld has had such a mild summer, the following makes no sense to me. read it all:

    20 Jan: Guardian/Observer: ‘It’s like hell here’: Australia bakes as record temperatures nudge 50C
    Fears rise for homeless and vulnerable people as communities brace for another week of relentless hot weather
    by Naaman Zhou
    (Naaman Zhou is a reporter for Guardian Australia. He was previously an editor of Honi Soit, the University of Sydney’s student newspaper)
    It was 48.9C last Tuesday in Port Augusta, South Australia, an old harbour city that now harvests solar power. Michelle Coles, the owner of the local cinema, took off her shoes at night to test the concrete before letting the dogs out. “People tend to stay at home,” she said. “They don’t walk around when it’s like this.”

    It’s easy to see why: in the middle of the day it takes seconds to blister a dog’s paw or child’s foot. In Mildura, in northern Victoria, last week gardeners burned their hands when they picked up their tools, which had been left in the sun at 46C. Fish were dying in the rivers.
    Almost every day last week a new heat record was broken in Australia…

    At the Australian Open in Melbourne, only the sea breeze kept the temperature below 40C…READ ON
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jan/19/australia-swelters-as-relentless-hot-weather-smashes-records

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      Hanrahan

      Climate is local.

      In Townsville I spent 3 hrs y’day [some at midday] cleaning up my weed infested back yard. I use a brush cutter with malice, digging out weeds by the roots so it is time consuming.

      I must say the last week has been almost balmy, hasn’t been bad since Xmas. I doubt anyone in the house has switched on an aircon since.

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    pat

    ditch Paris folks:

    19 Jan: Scotsman: Data sparks alert on investment in green projects
    by Ilona Amos
    Experts recommend 72 per cent of public spending on infrastructure should be allocated to low-carbon schemes such as electrification of public transport and renewable power to meet climate change targets and safeguard society.
    But the latest figures suggest only 32 per cent of government-led investment in the next 12 months will go to schemes considered the least harmful to the planet.
    Meanwhile, 10 per cent will be paid to high-carbon projects such as oil and gas works and road-building and 58 per cent to neutral developments such as schools, hospitals and prisons.

    This represents a small rise in low-carbon investment and slight fall in high-carbon compared with the previous year. However, a new report from the Scottish Parliament Information Centre (SPICe) predicts that future investment is likely to increase for carbon-heavy developments and decrease for low-carbon projects.

    Patrick Harvie, joint leader of the Scottish Greens, insists ministers must “pick up the pace” of transition to a greener society to stave off environmental calamity and protect communities. “The latest climate science tells us we only have 12 years to avoid catastrophe,” he said…READ ON
    https://www.scotsman.com/business/data-sparks-alert-on-investment-in-green-projects-1-4859333

    20 Jan: BBC: IGas’s Ellesmere Port plans ‘incompatible’ with climate targets
    By Phil McCann
    Plans for an onshore gas site in Cheshire will make it “less likely” the UK will meet its commitments on global warming, a public inquiry has heard.
    In January 2018, Chester and Cheshire West Council rejected IGas’s plan to test for gas by injecting acid into a well next to the M53 at Ellesmere Port.
    The energy company denies protesters’ claims that the work would have a negative impact on the environment.

    IGas’s appeal is being heard by a government planning inspector.
    The UK has committed to legally binding carbon budgets, which restrict the amount of greenhouse gases the UK can emit over a five year period.
    Local MP Justin Madders said production at the Portside North site, if approved, would lead to higher carbon dioxide emissions though…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-46924179

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    Hanrahan

    ”Heat is the worst thing for the brain,” he said.

    Man’s massive brain uses a large percentage of our energy intake [do I recall 25%?] but it is enclosed in a heavy skull so has no way of dissipating heat from the burnt energy, it has no radiator. So there are large arteries taking energy to the brain and draining the heat from it, to be dissipated elsewhere, namely the skin in which man has the wondrous ability to perspire. Our bodies are able to adapt. A few deg change in ambient can have no effect on the temp of the brain which is kept within strict limits.

    Should the good professor speak of post lunch lassitude in the heat he would be on safer ground. But I’m not sure how well you can concentrate when your teeth are chattering either.

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      RAH

      There is a radiator. First the vessels outside of the skull are very close to the surface skin. Secondly, the massive complex of the cerebral venous system lies close to the inside surface of the skull (Arachnoid matter). Ah heck! Just check out this to get the basics. https://radiopaedia.org/articles/cerebral-venous-system
      And while doing so remember how close to the heart the cerebral circulatory system lies and how close to the surface of the neck both carotid arteries and jugular veins lie.

      Why would a truck driver know this stuff? Well because this truck driver was an SF medic and then an instructor at SOMED and wrote the lessons plans for that program on heat and cold injuries. In doing so I had the benefit of a wealth of knowledge and practical experience from physician experts on the subject at Ft. Sam Houston, TX which is the Medical center of gravity for the US Army and indeed the entire US military. I wrote an article published in the New England Journal of medicine on the subject. Of course I was not listed as the primary author since I was just a medic. But it was my work.

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        Hanrahan

        And while doing so remember how close to the heart the cerebral circulatory system lies and how close to the surface of the neck both carotid arteries and jugular veins lie.

        Ws had a cricketer, Phillip Hughes, who died, virtually on the pitch, when a rising ball got under his helmet and ruptured his carotid.

        I’ll stick with my theory that the brain is kept cool via the skin and you can stick with the idea that it is cooled via the skull, even when wearing a hat. Agree to disagree and still be trans-Pacific friends. :)

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          RAH

          First I did not say that the cooling system I described was the primary one but the fact that the venous system of the brain is like no other part of the body should give you a clue. I would suggest you look into the functions of the hypothalamus. It is the primary thermostat regulating body temperatures through the autonomic functions of the peripheral nervous system. Heat stroke occurs when it malfunctions due to being overwhelmed by the heat or hormonal imbalances. The injury is not necessarily a temporary one either. Heat cramps, and heat exhaustion are less severe and temporary conditions that can be rectified with proper treatment but heat stroke can permanently damage the ability of the hypothalamus to regulate body temp and even other autonomic functions of the peripheral nervous system.

          I guess theories are alright but when your the one that is working on a human being that has suffered heat stroke you do what works.

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    pat

    19 Jan: Scotsman: Brian Wilson: Why ditching nuclear is bad for climate change, good for Putin
    The decision by Hitachi to pull out of the planned Wylfa nuclear power station is not only devastating for the north Wales economy, it also leaves the UK without an energy policy worthy of the name.
    To some, this will be a cause for rejoicing. They hate nuclear power so much they do not care where the alternatives come from – Russia in the long run – or what they consist of – fossil fuels, mainly.

    Check out Germany where the anti-nuclear policy driven by the Greens resulted last year in 44 per cent of electricity being generated from coal, compared to seven per cent in the UK. The more nuclear they close, the more coal is burnt.

    To all intents, the key decisions on future UK energy policy will now be taken by state-owned companies in Paris and Beijing. If they decide against further nuclear investment, we are back to a wing, prayer and imported gas. Even then, it will be a tight squeeze for decades to come – and very expensive when gas prices rise
    But what, I hear you say, about renewables? Well, I would claim to have done as much as any past Energy Minister to promote renewables of all types but it was always in the knowledge that they must be backed up by reliable baseload…

    Scotland, naturally, has been in the frontline of 21st century virtue-signalling. Hunterston and Torness are spoken of as if they were regrettable plagues upon our landscape, rather than essential engines of the Scottish economy for half a century.
    Soon they will be gone. Hunterston B has been providing baseload for 46 years and Torness for over 30. They are monuments to great Scottish engineering and well-paid jobs in communities that depended upon them. What, any more than in North Wales, are they to be replaced with?

    Alex Salmond’s promise of “a second industrial revolution” from renewables proved to be a mirage, not least because his Basque buddies at Iberdrola – the chief beneficiaries of renewables subsidies – took a strategic decision not to manufacture here (as EU rules made feasible). That is one piece of control I would strongly support taking back…
    Gas is plentiful and relatively cheap but it won’t always be like that. The EU imports 70 per cent of its natural gas with over a third coming from Russia…

    Scotland cannot opt out by talking only about renewables. Both for supply of baseload and demand for renewables, we are inextricably linked to the rest of the UK. Once our nuclear plants close, we will be huge net importers if there is any industry left to fuel…

    There are some areas in which the state should never have surrendered control – and the ability to keep the lights on is one of them. Thank goodness for a past history of courageous politicians, long-term state planning and balanced energy policy.
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/brian-wilson-why-ditching-nuclear-is-bad-for-climate-change-good-for-putin-1-4858838

    Wikipedia: Brian Wilson (Labour politician)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Wilson_(Labour_politician)

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      Hanrahan

      Hard to believe that a mere 100 years ago Britannia ruled the waves, that England was a technology leader. Wilson and Blair have a lot to answer for. Blair openly admitted he opened the borders to make the UK electorate strongly socialist, as the democrats are doing now in the US.

      It ended in tears [for the natives anyway] in the UK and will do so in the US.

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    Hanrahan

    The chill winds of reality are blowing up Musk’s bum. The price of power through his superchargers has risen again to one that reflects the true cost of electricity.
    From Breitbart.

    Now prices are increasing again; in New York, Supercharger stations charged$0.24 per kWh following last year’s increase, now downtown New York City locations will charge up to $0.32/kWh. California saw prices increase from $0.26 per kWh to between $0.32 to $0.36 per kWh. Norway — one of Tesla’s most important markets — also saw a huge increase in Supercharge costs, increasing from 1,40 NOK to 1,86 NOK per kWh. On average, prices appeared to increase by approximately 33 percent worldwide.

    This guy has done the sums so I won’t do them again but note the pricing here is @ 24c/KWH not the current $0.32 to $0.36 per kWh,

    Investors who take it for granted that electric cars are cheaper to run, need to think again.

    A comparison between Tesla Model 3 and the three leading hybrid cars of calendar year 2018 from Toyota, Honda and Hyundai proves otherwise.

    At the current typical Supercharger price of $0.24 per kWh, a Tesla Model 3 is $0.06 per mile. At the current gasoline price of $2.65, the 50+ MPG hybrids are $0.05 per mile.

    Then you have to add that the Model 3 has at best half the range and takes at least 10-20x as long to recharge that inferior range.

    Of course, the Model 3 also costs twice as much, and you have to assign an approximate $1,000 per year to battery depreciation, alone more than driving on gasoline for a year.

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    el gordo

    Ocean Heat Content is a big deal at the moment and over at Judith Curry’s blog Nic Lewis has up a post worth reading.

    I grabbed this from comments:

    https://imgur.com/3blB7Ng

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    el gordo

    Uh oh …..

    ‘A former adviser to Malcolm Turnbull will take on Tony Abbott in Warringah, the second independent to enter the field to unseat the former prime minister.

    ‘On Tuesday the Sydney Morning Herald reported that Alice Thompson, Turnbull’s cities and infrastructure adviser, had resigned from her role at KPMG to contest the seat.’

    Guardian

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      Hanrahan

      The logic must be that if they can get enough independent “liberals” to split the vote they are assured of a labor win. Wot aoles.

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    MatrixTransform

    is it true?

    I heard from a mate that both Loy Yang A and B each have a gennie out for maint?

    so that would mean only 2000 MW available and whats the weather forecast for Friday?

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