JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Bums up for climate change

Climate protestors put their best argument forward:

It’s taken thirty years and $100 billion in scientific research to get here.

Melbourne bums for climate change, protest, photo, 2018.

They think they can stop droughts.

Now we know that the best thing about climate protestors is their cardboard.

Australians will surely now poke,
Fun at each bare-bottomed bloke,
Who sought coal-mining closure,
By their rear end exposure,
With each now the butt of a joke.

–Ruairi

I don’t think these guys realize the upper tropospheric hot spot is missing. They are going to feel pretty silly when they find out someone tricked them into standing naked in the main street of Melbourne.

As reported by EchonetDaily (whoever they are, they don’t appear to be a satirical site). This weekend in Melbourne …. sometime when it was very very dark and there were no pedestrians. (Or maybe it was photoshopped and they were never there at all?)

July 2, 2018: As part of a 30-hour demonstration at the Flinders Street Station intersection, members of Frontline Action on Coal Melbourne (FLAC Melbourne), showed their displeasure at the government by baring their backsides under the clocks at Flinders St Station.

The five men took the dramatic action to call on the government to put an end to all new coal mines. A spokesperson for the group said, ‘It’s time to draw a red line on the environmental destruction, corruption and lies of the coal industry.’

‘We apologise to anyone offended by the image, but we are determined to do whatever it takes to end our use of fossil fuels. While some may find it offensive, we find the inaction by our government as even more offensive’.

And now, over to commenters…

h/t Pat

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 8.6/10 (52 votes cast)
Bums up for climate change, 8.6 out of 10 based on 52 ratings

190 comments to Bums up for climate change

  • #
    • #

      Amazing how the Left always seems to think that by doing stunts like this, going nude etc, really produces a convincing argument. They have completely it a*se about.

      341

      • #

        They have completely it a*se about.

        It must have been convincing, even I got ‘..it completely a*se about.’ :)

        190

      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        Correct bemused when you run out of argument you fall back on stunts . . GeoffW

        80

      • #
        Mal

        Facts are facts. Opinions are like a@holes, everyone has one.

        81

      • #
        The Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

        Over here on the other side of the Big Pond, we usually use it as a Spoonerism (interchange of the first consonants of two adjacent words). It comes out to be “bass-aackwards”. OK, maybe one of the two doesn’t need to be a consonant … … …

        If you enjoy Spoonerisms, the best ones are from a 1960′s TV show called “Hee Haw”. Archie Campbell, in the role of a local barber, would tell the old bedtime stories in spooneristic fashion.

        The first, and the best, was “RinderCella”. This was followed by Beeping Sleuty, and the Pee Little Thrigs.

        Yes, the show itself was almost all KORN-y humor, poking fun at (while embracing) the hill-billy, backwoods, hick lifestyle (you know, us ‘Deplorables’ and all that … ). I think you’ll find Misty Rowe was quite the dish!!!!!

        If this link works, check it out (the other person is the C & W singer/songwriter Roy Clark):

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FcUc2Tk0GQ

        Do have a great day, and my regards to all,

        Vlad

        30

        • #

          I used to watch Hee Haw as a kid. Lots of memorable old shows back in those days that would never pass the SJW test today.

          10

    • #
      Geoff

      33 Billion tons easily extracted, a subset of a 395 Billion tons resource. 1,200 Billion tons under Bass Strait. 600 Billion tons under the 395 Billion tons.

      All known for a very long time.

      So I agree completely, no new coal needs to be found in Victoria.

      At a maximum current dig rate of 60 Million tons per year, that is is only 36,600 years left. Not sure where Jo gets the 300 from?

      90

      • #
        Dean

        The subtle difference between reserves and wild a*sed guesses perhaps?

        40

        • #
          Geoff

          33 Billion tons is the reserve or 550 years of high class reserve assuming Hazelwood was operating. The rest can be read in various SEC reports or texts written by Herman Research Labs and Monash University personnel. This is the Gippsland Basin. There are other deposits I did not count.

          Victoria could be the richest state on Earth by a very long margin. However, we have done everything possible to make us poor.

          Then there is the oil trapped in all those coal pores. Get that out and NO ONE in Victoria need work for several hundred years.

          70

    • #
      Bob Cherba

      “Drongoes”: In addition to sciency stuff, I enjoy reading Aussie comments because I often have to look up unfamiliar words or phrases. By looking up “Drongoes” I learned something about birds and “mild Australian insults.”

      10

  • #

    It’s empowerment through education. Collingwood supporters learn to spell this way.

    250

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Your comment about education brought a saying of my old Maths teacher to mind.

      “They haven’t got the brains of a raspberry seed”.

      90

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Agreed. And even then they usually have to keep it to only two syllable words ….

      40

  • #
    Obie

    Seems to me that they are keeping their short comings well hidden.

    190

  • #
    Stephen Richards

    I always thought their argument was sh1t. Now they do too

    231

  • #
    Jim Carson

    Looks cold Down Under.

    100

  • #
    Michael Reed

    Well what do you know there stands 5 highly ignorant a****. They stand side by side with as much as much science as creationists, anti-vaccers and of course climate change cultists. I taught science (basically logic and critical thinking )for 28 years to some characters like these and I can tell you these were the types that never listened and did very poorly or just failed basic junior high school exams and assessments.

    So their protest show the same stunted intellectual abilities and ridiculous lack of any original creativity.Yeh these guys think they are the smartest kids on the block we’ll HA HA and I don’t Mean I’m laughing with them but rather at their childish non critical adolescent ignorance.
    Cheers Mike Reed

    [Edited slightly for tone and CAPS. -J]

    105

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I see no incompatibility of a Christian faith with science. IN fact, many universities were set up by religious orders to further understand the universe. Issac Newton was more known for his theological work than his maths….

      132

    • #
      Tom O

      So you “say” you taught “logic and critical thinking” and say also you taught “science?” Interesting, since both are needed in science, they are not science per se. And from this critical thinking, you decided to be a “big banger” and dumped all over “Faith.” I suppose that comes from, as the unknown(to me) physicist put it, “I can’t accept creation, because I can’t prove or disprove it, I have to take it on faith.” Yet you “logically” take it on faith that from nothing can come the entire universe in a nano second or less. Glad you weren’t my teacher.

      As for the photo, it looks to me like they are standing on a stage with a scene projected to their front, or a green screen with a background added.

      11

  • #
    Ruairi

    Australians will surely now poke,
    Fun at each bare-bottomed bloke,
    Who sought coal-mining closure,
    By their rear end exposure,
    With each now the butt of a joke.

    600

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Possible headlines:

    - The sad truth of useless bums on Melbourne’s streets.
    - A new concern about the hole in the no-zone.
    - Literacy hits a new low.
    - Climate activists hold onto a shrinking hope.
    - No coal for these guys but do they like fracking?
    - Police chief on new safety bollards “No one will ram these”
    - Old Flinders st clocks upgraded with dongers, falls on deaf ears.
    - The real face of activism, who are these jerks?
    -

    231

  • #
    Michael Reed

    PLease note a slight a slight edit on my last comment I do not laugh with them but rather at them.
    Mike Reed

    [Mike - best avoid the ALL CAPS unless absolutely needed. - Jo]

    62

  • #
    Gordon

    I have said this before; Just stop using ALL fossil fuels. How will your cell phone work, when it gets to -30 degrees how will you keep warm? Burn wood? How will cell phones and computers be manufactured? How will the internet work? How would you get your coffee latte delivered to the local coffee shop? That has to be shipped from South America and else where. How would you make solar panels? So yeah, I say stop and let the loonies [snip "reap what they sow." -J]

    102

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Right on Gordon, these people are completely naive in their expectations regarding zero climate emissions.
      GeoffW

      50

  • #
    PeterS

    That’s what you get when people think with their backsides instead of with their heads.

    210

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Well the space under the clocks has always been historically one of public theatre … this is just more of a clown act…

      60

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Inability to think . . ‘Consternation’ comes to mind
      Or is that consterpation?
      GeoffW

      40

  • #
    Just Thinkin'

    Little do they realise that the lights are
    still on while they do this is due to…..

    Trumpet blasts, please…..

    COAL fired power……

    Oh, the irony of it all.

    190

  • #
    Bob

    Just more holes in global warming theory.

    240

  • #
    Mark M

    It would be more effective sans the fossil-fuel manufactured warm clothes.

    110

  • #

    The question that the banks should be asked in the inquiry is “how many millions of dollars are the big four making out of the global warming fraud?”

    They should be made to open their books on their climate related financial activities.

    Millions of society’s poor will suffer third world living conditions in what was once a first world country.

    This includes the very old, the very sick, children and babies.

    The banks see this part of our society as faceless statistics.

    We must always follow the greed and callous indifference to the victims in any fraud case.

    Ultimately, the fraud needs the compliance of some cunningly placed politicians and bureaucrats to survive.

    70

  • #
    Peter

    These people are just plain batty! And they want to lecture the world on how to live?

    40

  • #
    Sean

    Must be big advocates of natural gas.

    140

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    No Ne W Co Al

    I had trouble with this.
    The visual did not merge into a coherent whole.

    Mooning someone has a long history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooning

    This 5-person failed for lack of context, coordination, and mixed sizes and colors.
    They should try a few more times and we can vote for the best presentation.
    Current effort: FAIL

    80

  • #
    Bruce of Newcastle

    Why weren’t they arrested?
    Mooning is illegal in Victoria:

    Mooning ban: ‘You could have people doing it everyday with no sanction’, Victoria Attorney General says

    MOONING is officially a crime in Victoria. Those who dare to bare their bottoms in public face up to six months in jail with new laws banning it.

    Some animals are more equal than others? I expect Vicpol will be right on the case any minute now.

    210

    • #
      PeterS

      That’s the issue in society today. The radical left can get away with almost anything while anyone else would be harassed by the them for doing the exact same thing. One law for the radical left and another for the rest. As a result the police through no fault of their own end up being part of the problem instead they should be part of the solution. Then the public distrust the police as a result. Then it continues on and on until the police actually become the main problem. Such actions as those fools need to be treated the same manner no matter who they are. The law is supposed to be applied equally to all but we all know from observation that’s not the reality. The classic example is the treatment of children in indigenous communities. It appears some parents have free reign to do whatever they like to their children, including some of the most horrific crimes imaginable. Then we are supposed to trust all politicians and all police? We will trust them when they apply the law equally to all. Until then they have little credibility.

      131

    • #
      sophocles

      Why weren’t they arrested?

      No officers of the law saw. One has to see it happen to make arrests. Even Vic hasn’t got enough Police to monitor every part of every railway station. They’re all out on the highways playing with their radar equipment catching and fining speeders … and other criminals.

      Time and place carefully chosen, so no officers around. The photographer and helper (holding the flash unit) would have partially blocked the view of others. All over in five seconds or less. (See my comment #21 below.)

      91

      • #
        yarpos

        The Police should equipped with arseometers as a matter of urgency

        60

      • #
        David Maddison

        There is a permanent police prese

        61

      • #
        David Maddison

        There is a permanent police presence at Flinders St Station.

        71

      • #
        PeterS

        How do you know the police didn’t see it, laughed and went on their merry way? Were you there?

        40

        • #
          sophocles

          How do you know the police didn’t see it, laughed and went on their merry way?

          I don’t. Neither do you, unless you took the photo or were one of those five. For all we know at the times these posts were made, they could have run out of the station without encumbrance or been tossed into the Paddy Wagon parked around the corner.

          Look at the clocks above their heads: they’re not showing time zones around the world.
          Count the number of pedestrians visible in the street outside. What pedestrians? (Spencer St? or Flinders St? or both?)
          Count the vehicles being driven in the street beyond. Are the few visible parked? Or being driven? No lights on, so most probably parked.
          Check the light in the sky. Pretty dark. The sky would be just little lighter at or near midday. The high rise building in the background is dark except for lights on one floor about 6 or 7 floors above the street. Therefore time of day is most likely late at night.

          How many Police officers on duty at that time? Where would they be? Can any be seen in the photo?
          How many people were involved in the photo other than the photographed, the photographer and a possible assistant holding and aiming the flash? Was there a small crowd behind to hide the action? Who knows … only they do.

          Were you there?

          What an interesting intriguing intelligent odd question: of course I wasn’t. How could I have been when I am 2,624 kms away, and very comfortably warm? No goosebumps here. I have made no secret, over many posts, of being a New Zealander, resident in New Zealand (God’s Own ) Had you forgetten?

          Australia doesn’t have any monopoly on having stupids, both politicians and demonstrators; we have our share, too.

          61

          • #
            Yonniestone

            Regarding the clocks its difficult to see the little hands………

            30

            • #
              sophocles

              Yonniestone alleged that:

              Regarding the clocks its difficult to see the little hands

              Umm. Maybe they’re shy and are hiding? Or they’re in shock …

              10

      • #

        How do we know they didn’t do it at home and photoshop the event together?

        81

  • #
    Robber

    Send them to SA, Weatherill blew up their last coal power station, and they need more wind!

    130

  • #
    Brian Hatch

    A group of young men demonstrating how fat people have become. They each need to lose 20kg.

    110

  • #
    Latus Dextro

    Opinions are like rrseholes, everyone has one. There is ‘no new coal’. There never was any ‘new coal’. At 300 million years old there’s nothing new about it.

    140

    • #
      el gordo

      Opinions do count, Malcolm’s on the nose.

      ‘Voters are not convinced that the government’s national energy guarantee will provide any relief from high power bills. The largest group told the Guardian Essential poll survey the policy would have zero impact.

      ‘With the Neg now in its make-or-break period, and the government deeply concerned about discontent with high power prices, the survey of 1,030 voters shows only 15% think the Neg will help reduce energy bills, 22% think it will increase them, and 38% believe it will make no difference.’

      Guardian

      70

    • #
      PeterS

      Incorrect. Coal like diamonds and rubies can be only a few weeks to months old using a variety of approaches.

      40

    • #
      John in Oz

      Opinions are like rrseholes, everyone has one

      My version has an addition – Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. Some stink more than others.

      Apt for this stunt.

      10

  • #
    George McFly......I'm your density

    Frontline Action…ha ha!

    40

  • #
    Zigmaster

    A few baked beans and a bit of flatuence you have a new improved model for a wind farm . Could probably provide more effective base load than existing turbines as well.

    50

  • #
    sophocles

    Overgrown children.

    Or maybe it was photoshopped and they were never there at all?

    Nope. Camera with a flash unit. See the reflections above and around and see the shadows around the feet and away from the flash unit. Too dense for the light conditions, so a flash. Too consistent density and angles for a photoshopper. No cross shadows so only one flash used, and not a hot-shoe unit. (Human photoshopper unless very skilled, usually stuffs up shadows.) Angle of shadows suggests the flash held high and off to the left of the camera photographer by a helper. Possibly a newspaper photographer, for professional equipment. Shadows converge in reverse on flash position. Centre three rears slightly brighter than either side.

    Would have only taken a few seconds to set up and recover.

    60

    • #

      Granted they’d have to be skilled, but with a green screen it’s doable, reflections, shadows and all. That said, they’re not showing a lot of skill generally.

      But it would be a good answer to legal questions.

      Is there really a time, even at 3am where there is no one outside Flinders station? Melbournites might know… this supposedly took place on Friday or Sat 29-30 June.

      40

      • #
        Joe

        That said, they’re not showing a lot of skill generally.

        Jo, stop those all of those innuendos, you only encourage further bad puns and innuendos.

        20

      • #
        sophocles

        Granted they’d have to be skilled, but with a green screen it’s doable, reflections, shadows and all. That said, they’re not showing a lot of skill generally.

        I agree, that with care anything like that is do-able and while it may look convincing at the macro scale, the operator would have to have paid minute attention to the detail, the micro scale. And that’s where it strongly suggests “live.” There would be mistakes visible in there but I can find none. The shadow perspective is correct, not for the shadows en masse, but for each indivdual shadow, the texture of the pavement is correct for the visual angle, and so on. Each of those details takes time, and can take lots of time.

        It takes teams of a hundred or more artists over hundreds of days to get CGI right. Look at the time taken by James Cameron to create Avatar. I enjoyed it but I noticed a lot of tiny errors nearly everybody else wouldn’t have. I only saw them because I was looking closely for them and I had to view it three, no, four times. On the other hand, there were lots of detail points which made the film really something. There are techniques to confuse and befuddle the eye (or befuse and confuddle :-) ) in film making but they involve rapid movement so that the background is blurred. This photo is a static piece so blurring would stand right out.

        Personally I don’t think that photo was worth the time which would have to have been invested in it to make it look so good in detail. Somebody or a group of sombodies can go distract any officer(s) (good looking wives/girlfriends are ideal to distract male officers) for the few seconds to line up, down-trou, take the photo and re-dress. The flash would reflect—or “echo”—around the station interior and that means it’s time to disperse, any distractors included.

        A little bit of practice can speed things up considerably. I gave it all 5 seconds. It could easily have been less.

        As an example, I was involved in a capping stunt back in the 1970s to erect a couple of Compulsory Stop signs at a very busy intersection in central Auckland at about 5am. There were three of us involved. We practised a few times to improve our speed. The signs went up and the roads were painted (white lines and STOP in large letters) a little more slowly than our practice had told us it would take: we had to hide twice because a police patrol car insisted on going around the block there … several times. Well, it was the Monday morning of Capping Week, after all. But it worked. That’s the key to speed of execution: the practice.

        I’ve never tried modifying a photo with Photoshop in anger, but I have seen the sort of thing you’re hinting at done once not so long ago. The effort involved is significant and for a photo of that complexity, any mistakes or stuff ups would really stand out to careful inspection. The more detail to take care of, the more time and the time taken increases almost exponentially. Run a small straight edge along the shadows … too good, with each shadow correct for the placement of the object casting the shadow and for the relative placement of the light source, look at the light and shadow along the building wall behind the clocks—you can place the flash from that. Those little things are details most likely to be missed, especially under time pressure, and getting the gradient along that wall at the level of the clocks just right would be darned hard, not to mention the reflections.

        A whole weekend available might be adequate time to modify it in, should it be modified, but do you have a spare fully staffed CGI studio available to work on it? :-)

        We see those angles, textures, and perspectives every day and think nothing of them, but when we see a photo which doesn’t have one or some of those quite correct, it “looks wrong, something’s not quite right.” The better your vision, the more likely you are to notice, because some detail doesn’t look how you have long been accustomed to seeing it, without consciously realising you’ve been seeing it.

        Is there really a time, even at 3am where there is no one outside Flinders station?

        Quietist times anywhere in the western world are Sunday nights into Monday mornings. It’s also weather dependent. Cold weather is a good deterrent. Wet, cold weather is even better. I don’t know about quiet times for Flinders St Station any more: it was 27 years ago I was there.

        40

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          I think you’re giving these bozos too much cred.

          I doubt they are deep thinkers nor would bother with Photoshop….

          And who ever did the cheeky texta work needs danger money…. :-)

          30

          • #
            sophocles

            OriginalSteve said:

            I think you’re giving these bozos too much cred.

            Moi?
            Or Jo?

            To reiterate: I think they did the photo live. A green screen with photoshop is too much work for those blokes. The text was probably applied by one or more “permanent” black marker pen(s) aka felt tips (ink crayons) and it may even have been applied on the spot but I would discount that—it would leave them out in the cold for longer. They could have been full of liquid courage, too, but we have no way of knowing … unless someone recognizes one or more of those … umm … “faces.” :-) .

            20

  • #
    Michael Reed

    Why am I still in moderation.???????
    Mike Reed

    [Mike any crass words will get trapped. I posted late and sometimes I sleep. - Jo]

    30

    • #
      yarpos

      Is there a service level gaurantee for moderation?

      20

      • #
        sophocles

        Is there a service level gaurantee for moderation?

        yep: It might be done, this week.

        Jo has (or had) a couple of volunteer moderators but it’s my guess she shoulders the biggest share and load herself. The impossible she routinely does almost immediately, but miracles do take a little longer.

        She’s ticked me off a couple of times: I leap to attention, salute, say “yes ma’am” and don’t do it again. It seems to work.

        40

  • #
    TedM

    Now I get it. CO2 released in the manufacture of cardboard.

    30

  • #
    Jonesy

    NE COAL NOW

    yes, we need coal now!

    Best limerick by far,Ruairi!

    40

  • #
    Ian Hill

    If they were really serious they would all have both hands above their heads.

    40

    • #
      sophocles

      and risk frost bite? Nah. Not in winter …

      20

      • #
        Ian Hill

        On closer inspection they all appear to be holding signs in front of their nether regions. Presumably containing different letters (apart from the middle bloke) to those painted on their rears (wonder who got that job!!).

        10

  • #
    David Maddison

    The Left (US = Liberal) movement is utterly devoid of intellect.

    100

    • #
      PeterS

      Also applies here to the Liberal Party – devoid of intellect.

      61

      • #
        el gordo

        How we laughed.

        ‘Malcolm Turnbull has taken a veiled swipe at Tony Abbott on energy, declaring it is time to “get out of the realm of politics and ideology.” Oz

        40

      • #
        Mal

        Full of lawyers. Therefore by definition, no idea how to think critically. Just follow the letter of the law. In this case Paris climate agreement.

        60

  • #
    crakar24

    Give them some credit they got their arses in the right order so as there are no spelling mistakes

    50

    • #
      Heywood

      I’d be more worried about shrinkage.

      40

      • #
        crakar24

        Hi ya heywood how have you been? Perhaps they are one of the hard core greens that dont want kids in order to save the planet and therefore there is nothing left to shrink?

        50

        • #
          Heywood

          I’m ok mate. It’s been a looooong time since I popped in. Good to see you all here maintaining the rage!

          70

  • #
    Greg in NZ

    F.L.A.C.C.I.D. = Farcical Loons And Carbon Cult Indoctrinated Drongos

    flaccid [adjective]: soft, loose, flabby, slack, drooping, sagging, dull, lacklustre; lacking force or effectiveness.

    And what’s with the beanies / hats, scarves, poly jackets, trousers, socks and shoes?

    Hypocrite [noun]: pretender, deceiver, sanctimonious, sham, phony.

    Now, if they were young women protesting with a little ‘frontline action’ my attention may have been piqued…

    80

  • #
    Tdef

    How to freeze your brain?

    80

  • #
    Tdef

    Perhaps demonstrating that methane is a far greater greenhouse gas?

    50

  • #
    Tdef

    Green intellectuals.

    60

  • #
    Tdef

    Tim Flannery cheer squad?

    80

  • #
    Tdef

    After 30 years of this, an end is in sight.

    90

  • #

    On a serious note, and of special interest to Australians…

    They say “fossil fuels”.

    But the attack is always on coal. Notice that? COAL.

    Now ask: who/what does Coca-Cola hate? Water or milk or Pepsi-Cola? Well? Exactly!

    Now read, from typically green-left friendly media: “TIME has learned that between 2007 and 2010 the Sierra Club accepted over $25 million in donations from the gas industry, mostly from Aubrey McClendon, CEO of Chesapeake Energy—one of the biggest gas drilling companies in the U.S. and a firm heavily involved in fracking—to help fund the Club’s Beyond Coal campaign.” TIME adds the acknowledged fact that Sierra was in line for a further 30 million when the substance hit the fan.

    I really don’t care much about the ins and outs of Coalition leadership. I don’t know whom to trust politically and I’m dead sure I don’t trust a single mainstream media outlet – ever!

    But I will naively punt my vote on the single issue of ending the War on Coal and defending Australia’s prime resource. I don’t have to like whoever it is, and whoever it is doesn’t need to be much chop. Our coal is that important I’d give my vote to the proverbial drover’s dog if it barks up for extending and modernising every aspect of Australia’s coal industry, but particularly domestic coal power gen.

    141

    • #
      TdeF

      Certainly the diesel industry is doing very well in Australia out of the attack on coal. Who would replace coal with diesel to save CO2? It is all about a concerted attack on coal. Then gas. Then petrol. Then Diesel. Then cows.

      100

      • #

        It’s important to look at gas in world politics. It’s the new black and we are already seeing fracked American gas being shipped to Poland to forestall European adoption of Nord Stream 2 from Russia. Poland, something of an economic tiger which (usually) has lots of thermal coal but still needs imported coking coal and gas, is now regarded as the big new geopolitical lynch-pin by the US. (It’s even claimed that the US is prepared to buy Russian product and rebrand it, but this is hard to prove.)

        So gas sells Big Green and Big Green sells gas, and gas also buys geopolitical weight, albeit at an outrageous and impractical cost. Oil is still a big card in the deck and whoever can control its output and price can hope to lead the game (though this complex juggling constantly goes wrong, needless to say).

        What is not welcome is a true alternative: cheap, abundant and potent. That’s coal, especially Australia’s plentiful and accessible Permian black. It kills the game. Think of the complicated nonsense which would become irrelevant if coal-rich Oz were to make use of its resource in the most advanced way. This is why coal gets attacked. Crony capitalists and financial manipulators hate the stuff (unless price levels soar so high that a Tom Steyer can love it again).

        The other day someone here linked to an upbeat article by a “lukewarmer” (at a site I won’t name which I now suspect to be controlled opposition) which, as well as bewildering with lots of Jerry Lewis maths, spoke of coal’s increasing irrelevance and even used the term “peak coal”. As with the Jerry Lewis stuff, there was no substantiation, just verbal conditioning which we were meant to absorb mindlessly.

        In fact, coal has a critical present and a critical future. It’s right there in last year’s export figures. The intentions of Japan, China, Taiwan, Korea, India are clear. But while gas and oil are attacked verbally coal, their real competitor, has to dodge real arrows. This is at great cost to many, but to none so much as Australia. There is a War on Coal and we do have to win it.

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        • #
          TdeF

          The LGC ripoff also applies to gas when used to make electricity. With its higher energy rating per tonne and fewer tonnes to make the same electrical power, the tax is nearly double, $400 per tonne instead of $200 per tonne. Still, it is not mentioned in the press. I suspect Victorian gas for heating is still free of this killer tax and it underpins Victoria’s energy. Coal first, then gas. Wood is already under assault, closing forests, laws against burning up forest tree litter. The obvious idea is to shut down all energy sources in Australia. Now tell me these people who fly off to Green Global Warming conferences really believe the purpose is to save the planet? These are anarchists, often in public employment.

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    • #
      sophocles

      They say “fossil fuels”.

      Have you seen the fossil impressions in coal?

      When I was young, we burnt coal to warm the house in winter. I was about ten years old when I split a large lump of coal into two halves quite by accident, to discover the perfect imprint of a fernleaf in each half. I was told that my discovery was not unusual. So maybe there’s something in it.

      50

  • #
    toorightmate

    There’s your proof.
    Warmists are a mob of bums.

    70

  • #
    Annie

    Will they still be there when we arrive there later today? I hope not…what a gruesome sight! No shortage of nincompoops for sure.

    52

  • #
    TdeF

    No nude coal?
    Is there any significance in facing St.Paul’s Cathedral?
    Maybe they’re training?
    Lost farmers?
    Must be coaled.

    50

    • #
      Annie

      I had noticed they were facing the Cathedral. That is the main entrance to Flinders St Station.
      Maybe see you later, TdeF and beththeserf and David M?

      42

      • #
        TdeF

        I asked around. Met many people who were not Annie. Life! We should have had badges.

        30

        • #
          TdeF

          However I did get to speak to Tony Abbott. Two questions, one really a statement.
          1. That in 1956 Professor Suess discovered not only radio carbon dating, dating CO2, but that there was almost no fossil fuel CO2 in the air. Under 2%. The implications half way through the 20th century are profound.
          2. The question about whether the RET would survive a Supreme Court challenge. In Westminster tradition the enrichment of third parties by a government is illegal. In not being a tax, the RET forces everyone to hand over cash to strangers for nothing at all. It is better classed as robbery as your money is taken from your payments and given to others. The fact that this robbery is supervised and enforced by the Government’s police does not make it legal.

          Overall I was disappointed that some of the concepts are embedded

          1. Coal power stations are ‘old’. That is rubbish
          2. Carbon Dioxide is ‘emissions’
          3. We should keep emissions down.

          However Craig Kelly went on to make the very good points that while they are crippling electricity, it is a small part of the picture. Agriculture, transport, concrete, smelting,… all produce lots of CO2. There is no plan to reduce them and CO2 reductions cannot come entirely from electricity.

          The one good thing that Tony did say is that he would get out of the Paris agreement, that if we knew then what we know now, we would never have signed. Further, that the whole thing is meaningless without America.

          The other is that we wanted the abolishment of the RET. I think though that he means the ‘Targets’, not the appalling robbery.

          I did get to make the point that if the RET did not exist, Hazelwood would restart. He listened.

          Overall, he looks exactly like you know. He makes good sense. He does not pretend to be a scientist. However he is scathing of the impenetrable NEG?. He says it is 10% about reducing electricity cost and guaranteeing supply and 90% about reducing emissions intensity. (Another Malcolm Turnbull piece of Green rubbish. Dill is a herb)

          50

          • #

            I got to meet Annie. Sorry we didn’t catch up with
            others from Jo Nova… I asked TA a RET question too.
            Seems to this serf, there’s still a falling in with
            the Allinsky-ites’s Agenda re acknowledging the CO2
            ‘science.’ It was never really about the science.
            As the late and great John Daly said, ‘Still Waiting
            for Greenhouse’ evidence.

            Annie and I talked to Peter Ridd. )

            40

            • #
              TdeF

              Talked to Peter Ridd too. And his recent PhD student. Advised him to settle it, now he has the funds to prosecute it. The courts settle nothing and they all go on until the money is exhausted. I am amazed people believe that lawyers are there to help you, not to make a living.

              30

          • #
            TdeF

            Tony still thinks the RET is about ‘Targets’. He proposed abolishing the ‘targets’. It is really about the world’s biggest Carbon Tax, though the words carbon and tax are not mentioned. As Tom Quirk calculated, the price of coal carbon is $200 a tonne. Gas is $400 a tonne. I agree. 10x as much as Julia Gillard’s Carbon tax, the biggest part of electricity prices and a huge impost on the poor with no exemptions.

            30

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            On target.

            10

        • #
          Annie

          We should indeed TdeF. I tried to guess who you were unsuccessfully but thoroughly enjoyed meeting Beththeserf. We should devise a Jo Nova blog badge for future events!….if Jo approves?
          There were lots of people there so it was difficult to work out who was who. I did tentatively ask a few groups if any were followers of this blog…people were from all over. We did meet some great people. Tony Abbott spoke well, as expected (now get right in there, please!). It was an honour to have the chance to meet Peter Ridd with Beth. We were very glad we attended despite the rather tedious trek down from our rural home…one hour’s drive to Lilydale plus one hour on the train into Flinders Street. Happily we missed the ‘bums’ (if they were still there) as we were in the front part of the train and therefore came out at Elizabeth Street. I would quite like to have had the chance to tell them to get real and realise they’d be fully starkers without coal! Then get them arrested for indecent exposure!

          30

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    “FLAC Melbourne”

    I recall a Melbourne comedian called Flacco….he was funny though….although these blokes are clowns….

    20

  • #
    MudCrab

    Bemused.

    To be honest I am not as much ‘pro coal’ as ‘pro cost effective baseload’. Flashing the Flab in pre dawn Melbourne only reminds me how much I dislike Melbourne.

    30

  • #
    Joe

    Not too surprised – there have been cracks appearing in their argument for a long while.
    Bumm bumm!

    90

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    Yelling, protesting, rioting, vandalism, and bullying isn’t working so this was the best they could think of?

    In a word: Pathetic!

    50

  • #
    Joe

    Hmm, it looks like they drew upon their usual sources of information to come up with this one!

    60

  • #
    pat

    another protest:

    2 Jul: NY Post: Scott Pruitt becomes latest Trump official to be harassed at a restaurant
    By Nikki Schwab
    Teacher Kristin Mink was shown approaching Pruitt as he chowed down with a pal at the Teaism restaurant Monday, four blocks from his office at the EPA’s headquarters.
    “I just wanted to urge you to resign, because of what you’re doing to the environment in our country,” Mink said, holding her two-year-old son and a notepad, as her husband recorded the encounter…

    “This is my son, he loves animals, he loves clean air, he loves clean water,” she said to Pruitt. “So I would urge you to resign before your scandals push you out,” she told the EPA head.
    Pruitt gawked at her throughout the encounter.
    “He literally said nothing,” she told The Post. “He had no response, he had no defense, he had no apology, he did no explaining, he did no denying.”…

    Mink said Pruitt and his lunch partner left after the confrontation.
    Pruitt’s spokesman claimed he didn’t leave because of Mink, and he also thanked her after she was done…

    Pruitt’s plate was covered in napkins – a sign that he had finished his meal – during the encounter.
    Mink teaches sixth grade at Sidwell Friends – the tony school where President Obama sent his two daughters…

    She told The Post she’s been protesting the Trump administration, including getting arrested at the Hart Senate Office Building last week…
    https://nypost.com/2018/07/02/scott-pruitt-becomes-latest-trump-official-to-be-harassed-at-a-restaurant/

    10

  • #
    Bob

    The bums say, “but we are determined to do whatever it takes to end our use of fossil fuels”.

    Except presumably they won’t advocate for:

    nuclear power;
    free-market pricing in the energy market;
    removal of subsidies of all sorts;
    elimination of the NEG etc.

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  • #
    beowulf

    OK enough predictable bum jokes and onto the coal power those cretins are denigrating.

    Here’s the latest interview from Abbott on the NEG plus an article by Ron Boswell. Boswell’s is the more informative. Tony is his usual wishy-washy self. The man needs a poke with a cattle prod to get him to say anything compelling when there is plenty of compelling stuff to be said.

    https://stopthesethings.com/2018/07/02/renewable-energy-debacle-deepens-chaotic-costly-power-destroying-australian-industry/

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Nationals MPs have urged leader Michael McCormack to push Mr Turnbull harder on the NEG, with his partyroom this week compiling a set of “discussion points” for him to raise directly with Mr Turnbull.’

      I’m assuming McCormack is not a member of the ginger group.

      40

    • #
      glen Michel

      Abbott is a prevaricator of the first order. Too many mistakes in the past and missed the bus. Politics in this country needs a bust,big time.

      30

  • #
    pat

    yes, it’s all about demonising coal:

    3 Jul: AFR: Investors worth $1trn say no to coal
    by Ben Potter
    UniSuper and QSuper have thrown their combined $147 billion of funds under management behind the global Climate Action 100+ group, lifting to more than $1 trillion the local funds pledged to steer energy-intensive companies away from coal and towards cleaner energy.

    Ten Australian energy-intensive companies have also been added to the group of target companies that have significant opportunities to drive the clean-energy transition, including AGL Energy, Origin Energy, Adelaide Brighton Cement, Boral, Santos, Qantas, Bluescope Steel and Woolworths.
    They join ASX-listed companies that were previously nominated by global investors – BHP, Rio Tinto and Woodside Petroleum.

    Globally the funds represented have lifted to nearly $US30 trillion ($41 trillion), ramping up pressure on energy-intensive companies to get serious about lowering their greenhouse gas emissions and complying with the Paris agreement goal of limiting global temperature increases to well below 2 degrees Celsius – regardless of local government policy…

    PHOTO (3 protesters): Pure coal companies will find it harder to get investment from Australian funds as more fund managers commit to initiatives such as Climate Action 100+ and regulators warn that climate risks must be disclosed. Pictured is a protest outside the Whitehaven Coal offices in Sydney in 2014…

    ***”We welcome the leadership ambitions that a number of companies have set out, but now is the time to intensify climate action together and ensure that the goals of the Paris Agreement are achieved,” said Stephanie Maier, director of responsible investment at HSBC Global Asset Management…

    Climate screws tighten
    UniSuper and QSuper join Australian Super, AMP Capital, Colonial First State Super, First State Super, HESTA, Cbus, IFM, Local Government Super, Ausbil and VicSuper in backing the Climate Action 100+ goals, further tightening the screws on local companies to get serious about reducing their carbon footprint in line with the Paris goals signed up to by the Turnbull government in 2015.

    The funds have been gradually adding to their expertise in engaging with companies on climate risk issues. QSuper appointed Claire Molinari as a governance strategist in December 2016…

    Representatives of AustralianSuper, the $US349 billion California Public Employees’ Retirement System(CalPERS), HSBC Global Asset Management, Ircantec and Manulife Asset Management have led the development of the The Climate Action 100+ process.
    https://www.afr.com/news/investors-worth-1trn-say-no-to-coal-20180702-h125bm

    40

  • #
    Heywood

    Making an arse out of themselves. lol.

    40

  • #
    pat

    ex-CarbonBrief/ClimateChangeNews writer, Sophie Yeo, who now gets published in almost all the FakeNewsMSM as a freelancer.
    nothing political about this march, of course:

    2 Jul: PacificStandardMag: Sophie Yeo: ‘No Climate Justice Without Racial Justice’: Inside the Youth Climate March
    A conversation with 16-year-old Jamie Margolin, who is leading the Zero Hour march.
    They won’t go past the White House, because their cause isn’t about President Donald Trump, explains Jamie Margolin, the 16-year-old from Seattle who has orchestrated the movement. The march is not about changing the mind of the commander-in-chief, she says, but rather about creating conditions for lasting change.
    “People here, they spend too much time on [Trump]. He’s just a crazy man. There’s just no point in trying to convince him of anything,” Margolin says…

    Her first taste of community organizing was as an intern in Hillary Clinton’s campaign office in Seattle…
    When Clinton lost, Margolin realized that she couldn’t ignore the climate crisis anymore and began working for local environmental organizations. She also became one of the 13 plaintiffs suing Washington State’s government for not taking sufficient action to reduce emissions…

    Today, Margolin has a team of around 30 young people working on the campaign, plus five adult mentors…
    Her work has been endorsed by former Vice President Al Gore, and she’s in regular contact with Emma Gonzalez, the young gun-control activist who rose to prominence following the Parkland shooting in Florida, whom she now considers a friend…

    As well as July’s march, she has planned a lobbying day on July 19th where marchers will present their demands to politicians, and has established an organization, Zero Hour, to continue the task after the march is complete. Beyond D.C., marches are taking places in other cities including Las Vegas, Seattle, and London…
    https://psmag.com/environment/zero-hour-inside-the-youth-climate-march

    Zero Hour – Who We Are
    (SCROLL DOWN) Our Partners
    Sierra Club, 350.org, The Climate Reality Project (Al Gore), Alliance for Climate Education, Baltimore Beyond Plastic, Chesapeake Climate Action Network, Citizens Climae Lobby, DC Local Ambassadors, ETC ETC ETC
    http://thisiszerohour.org/who-we-are/

    18 Jun: TWEET: Bill McKibben, 350.org: If you have a few extra bucks this month, perhaps divide them between helping kids on the border and helping these kids plan a major youth climate march for the summer (LINK FOR DONATIONS)
    2 replies only, includes:
    Defending Canada: Way to use a tragic policy to promote your climate change agenda. Disgusting!
    https://twitter.com/billmckibben/status/1008696231944773634

    10

    • #
      pat

      30 March: MotherJones: Megan Jula: This 16-Year-Old Founded a “Movement of Unstoppable Youth” to Save the Planet
      Zero Hour is marching for climate action this summer.
      The organization now has teenage members across the country, and adult mentors such as Mrinalini Chakraborty, the Women’s March head of field operations and strategy…

      MARGOLIN: After the (2016) election, I was heartbroken. I decided to shift my attention to more long-term, issue-based activism…

      MJ: How did Zero Hour come about? I understand President Trump’s decision to withdraw from the Paris climate accord was one source of motivation—were there other factors?

      MARGOLIN: After that, I started really thinking about it seriously, but I was a little nervous because I knew how big of a task it is. I had only really been community organizing for a year. Then the natural disasters happened that summer: Hurricane Harvey, Hurricane Maria, record heat, droughts.
      That summer I was at Princeton University for a political speech and communication program…

      MARGOLIN: I think what’s really special about us doing this is we don’t have a hidden agenda. There is no money motivation…

      MJ: What do you hope to do in the future?

      MARGOLIN: I see myself in office of some sort. Not making the same mistakes as the politicians I am pressuring. Being that leader who puts the people before money. I know it’s easier said than done, but that’s my dream in terms of the future.
      But it’s hard to plan for the future if the world is literally ending. That sounds dramatic, but it’s accurate…
      https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2018/03/this-16-year-old-founded-a-movement-of-unstoppable-youth-to-save-the-planet/

      27 Feb: Rolling Stone: Eric Holthaus: Meet the Teens Schooling Us on Climate Action
      Zero Hour, a national movement mobilizing youth to protect a livable future, is planning a youth march this summer
      This story was originally published by Grist and appears here as part of an ongoing collaboration…
      There have been youth factions at the United Nations’ annual climate conference, for example, since the beginning of that process nearly 30 years ago. And over the past week, I’ve heard from dozens of young people from around the country who want to see ***more aggressive climate action…

      28 Jun: Medium: We’re not okay with it. We’ll fight back
      MARGOLIN: For a while, we did tons of visioning and brainstorming, struggling to find our footing. Soon we brought on some adult mentors, like Mrinalini Chakraborty, a Women’s March co-founder, and Laura Sanders from DC Local Ambassadors who guided us in the right direction…
      MARGOLIN: Climate Change is the defining issue of our time. A new study came out that analysed that the current administration’s environmental policies could lead to about 80 thousand deaths in the United States alone…

      10

  • #
    ATheoK

    Well, that is just butt ugly!

    And makes just about as much sense as standing in public exposing walkerbys to the most unattractive nudity in town. And far less intelligent than dogs piddling on hydrants.

    40

  • #
    Joe

    Talkin’ through their R’es as usual.

    30

  • #
    Joe

    Lucky they didn’t bend over because NOONOEVOVCOOAOL would only confuse us further.

    … ok that was the last one. (and apologies Jo for the capitals :) )

    40

  • #
    Michael Reed

    I never new I couldn’t do a post that had a “tone”(and went into moderation)
    about it ,I was purely responding to the disgusting
    image of 5 blokes whose image definitely had a
    an obscene “tone” about it.And remember these types need to be called out on there “social message” which will inevitably will destroy this economy and is causing hardship right now
    because thousands of Australian families are suffering from energy poverty.No quarter
    should be given to this type of behavior
    Cheers Mike Reed

    20

    • #
      sophocles

      Mike:
      Jo has some good pages about commenting here. This is her blog, she owns it, and while she invites good comments, you do need to keep to The Rules. We are all guests here, after all. If you haven’t read them yet—and they’re worth reading :-) —then perhaps you should.

      After that, and with a bit of thought, you should be able to work out what you didn’t do quite right.

      10

  • #
    Hivemind

    Dare I say it…

    Someone’s being given the bums rush.

    00

  • #
    PaulS

    They look like a pack of bums to me. >.>

    10

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall, also in Herald Sun:

    Wacky anti Adani Townsville protest against Toowoomba company Wagners features ‘mermaid’
    Townsville Bulletin-2 hours ago
    THEY’VE bared their bums, climbed trees and tied themselves to dangerous machinery. But the latest stunt by anti-Adani protesters is more wacky than ever…
    Be ye company or council, ye be morally reprehensible and complicit in the destruction of both our climate and our oceans,” one of the protesters said in a bizarre statement…

    3 Jul: Tenterfield Star (Fairfax): Tenterfield Action Network joins effort to stymie new coal projects
    ***PHOTO (NO PROTESTERS, JUST SIGNS?): Tenterfield Climate Action Network members strive to educate Saturday morning shoppers as part of nationwide initiative driven by Front Line Action against Coal…

    TCAN’s David Townes: “The weather extremes of which the global climate scientific community warn include intensifying draught, storms, floods, bushfire, and warming oceans. Some will recall professor Ian Chubbs’ presentation at the last Sir Henry Parkes Oration in which he stated the impacts will be ‘profound’.”…

    Mr Townes said to mitigate climate change weather extremes will require a rapid transition from a fossil fuel-based economy to one driven by cheaper, cleaner mixes of renewable energy and storage resources…
    “Our own federal member Mr Joyce forms part of the Monash group.”
    https://www.tenterfieldstar.com.au/story/5503271/tenterfield-action-network-joins-effort-to-stymie-new-coal-projects/

    above includes a broken link to this:

    28 May: Tenterfield Star (Fairfax): Climate action group mounts undercover protest at Joyce’s office
    PHOTO (6 protesters): ‘Barnaby’ is joined by Tenterfield Climate Action Network’s Sue Eaton, David Townes, Constance Attard, Dora Rochford Meg McLeary and (in front) Gail Galloway to protest over-familiar ties with the Adani group.

    Placard-bearing members of Tenterfield Climate Action Network (TCAN) gathered around an effigy of Barnaby Joyce in bed outside the MP’s Tenterfield office on Monday, to air their concerns over environmental and economic damage in the pursuit of cementing ties with India-based Adani…

    TCAN spokesperson David Townes: “Seventy-five per cent of Australians and so New Englanders are clear that we prefer taxpayer funds to be directed to renewable energy instead of infrastructure for coal companies.
    “And yet Mr Joyce chooses to remain cemented to an archaic fossil fuel ideology rather than support the requests of his constituents. Why?…

    “We will not stand by and allow politicians of any persuasion to destroy the environmental futures of our children on the altar of short term political ego and major donor influence.”…

    Monday’s protesters also cited concerns about damage to North Queensland’s tourism industry from increased shipping through the Barrier Reef should the project proceed, and challenged the exporting of coal to India on humanitarian grounds, saying solar and wind power generators would be cheaper and have fewer health impacts.
    https://www.tenterfieldstar.com.au/story/5431616/climate-action-group-mounts-undercover-protest-at-joyces-office/

    10

  • #
    pat

    an odd one. Labor in favour, Liberals totally opposed.
    no photo found online with more than the number of protesters shown in pic in article below, not even on organisers’ Twitter pages:

    3 Jul: MorningtonPeninsulaNews: Keith Platt: Hundreds at power protest
    PHOTO: (30-plus protesters, no caption)

    MORE than 400 protesters have made it clear that they do not want a floating gas import terminal at Crib Point or a pilot hydrogen export plant at Hastings.
    Sunday’s rally at Hastings foreshore – under the banner “one rally, two threats” – was the culmination of months of uncertainty over the two projects: one designed to meet the state’s gas needs and the other to provide fuel for vehicles in Japan.

    It was organised by Save Westernport and Westernport and Peninsula Protection Council with support from Environment Victoria, the Victorian National Parks Association, Friends of the Earth and Blue Wedges Coalition…

    Power company AGL’s proposal at Crib Point involves a 300 metre long floating storage and regasification unit (FSRU) turning liquefied natural gas (LNG) into gas before it is piped to Pakenham.
    Opponents say the process threatens the bay’s ecology by returning millions of litres of cooled, chlorine-sterilised water back into the bay.
    They also claim there is a risk of explosion and noise.

    The Labor state government is supporting AGL, while Hastings MP, Liberal Neale Burgess remains “totally opposed to its project, the way it is treating this community and that I will do everything within my power to stop it”.

    Flinders MP Greg Hunt says he is opposed to “industrialisation” at Crib Point, but has not directly responded when asked by The News if he defines AGL’s floating gas terminal as “industrialisation”.

    The proposal by Kawasaki Heavy Industries to build a pilot plant at Hastings for the production and export of hydrogen from brown coal is being backed by $50 million each from the state and federal governments.
    “These dirty coal and gas proposals could increase Victoria’s climate pollution at a moment in time when we should be doing everything we can to tackle global warming,” Environment Victoria’s CEO Mark Wakeham said.

    “Incredibly, AGL’s project could end up importing gas that was originally extracted from Victoria, piped to Queensland, refrigerated, liquefied and shipped back to Crib Point for regasification with every one of these steps increasing greenhouse pollution. Australia’s energy market operator has confirmed there is no gas shortage, so there is no justification for AGL to barge ahead with this polluting new project.”…

    Louise Page, of Save Westernport said the proposal by AGL was “a short term measure that has long term consequences and potentially threatens the environment and safety of the local community”.
    “Continuing to invest in the dying fossil fuel industry [the hydrogen plant] is an equally bad decision at a time when we need to be investing more in rapidly transitioning to the growing market of renewable energy.”
    http://mpnews.com.au/2018/07/03/hundreds-at-power-protest/

    10

  • #
    angry

    What class acts.

    It’s no wonder the majority of people don’t take them seriously !

    Meanwhile some good news from the US…..

    Federal Judge Dismisses Climate Change Lawsuit: Oil Fueled Modern America

    http://www.breitbart.com/california/2018/06/26/federal-judge-dismisses-climate-change-lawsuit-oil-fueled-the-rise-of-modern-america-we-have-all-benefited/

    41

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    Tossil Fools.

    51

  • #
    Robber

    Tony, thanks for your weekly posts that nicely summarise weekly electricity generation and bring some logic to the discussion about sources of our power.
    Average generation after 7 weeks, (converted from GWhr to MW):
    Coal 17,300 MW (71.3%)
    Gas 2,100 MW (8.5%)
    Hydro 2.500 MW (10.3%)
    Wind 1,450 MW (5.9%)
    Large solar 90 MW (0.4%)
    Rooftop solar 860 MW (3.6%)
    Total 24,300 MW

    To meet the 2020 renewable energy target of 33,500 GWhr requires an average generation from hydro, wind and large solar of 3,800 MW so it would appear to be already achieved.
    However hydro has been a lot higher in recent weeks than the yearly average of 1,400 MW after good spring rains. So in fact “renewables” are averaging about 2,900 MW. Therefore, in the next two years we require about a further 900 MW from wind and large solar to meet the RET, as there will be no new hydro capacity. That’s an increase of 58%, and that will force a reduction in the electricity delivered from coal and gas. But of course when the sun isn’t shining and the wind isn’t blowing, the “reliables” of coal, gas and hydro must be available to meet peak demands, but with lower average utilisation (and higher unit costs?).

    Meanwhile Mr Turnbull has been reported in today’s Australian: “we have seen a reduction of at least 25 per cent over the last year of wholesale generation costs” and “the NEG will reduce wholesale generation costs by 23 per cent”. No data provided to support those claims. Facts from AEMO would say he is playing with numbers:
    Prices for 2015/16, 2016/17, 2017/18 in $/MWhr:
    NSW 52, 81, 82
    Qld 60, 93, 73
    SA 62, 109, 98
    Vic 46, 67, 92
    Wind and solar must be paired with coal/gas/hydro to provide dispatchable power, increasing costs.

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    • #

      Robber, thanks:

      Tony, thanks for your weekly posts that nicely summarise weekly electricity generation and bring some logic to the discussion about sources of our power.
      Average generation after 7 weeks, (converted from GWhr to MW):
      Coal 17,300 MW (71.3%)
      Gas 2,100 MW (8.5%)
      Hydro 2,500 MW (10.3%)
      Wind 1,450 MW (5.9%)
      Large solar 90 MW (0.4%)
      Rooftop solar 860 MW (3.6%)
      Total 24,300 MW

      Hey that’s good. Nice conversion. Well done you!

      That’s an average per hour figure, for every hour of every day of all seven week days, and for seven weeks.

      Note how coal fired power is 12 times that for wind power.

      Tony.

      40

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    Miso Alkalaj

    I am amazed how you keep missing the point: they are showing their bums BECAUSE IT GETS MEDIA ATTENTION! A scene of full or partial nudity is certain to be carried by newspapers and TV – and it doesn’t really matter what you write on the bum, FREE MARKET would get just as much attention. I am frequently embarrassed by rightist knee-jerk reactions “This is a leftists strategy” – it has nothing to do with leftist world view. Expose your own bum with your favourite slogan on it and see.

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    pat

    maybe you all know this, but I see Tony Abbott’s Bob Carter speech is on Foxtel #604 at 6pm.

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    David Maddison

    O/T

    “Time to get out of Paris” Tony Abbott just said. I am at his talk.

    Picture at https://www.facebook.com/740348081/posts/10157547405208082/

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      pat

      David Maddison -

      I watched it and, sorry to be picky, but the lighting on the Foxtel channel was dreadful.

      it was good to hear Abbott call for withdrawal from Paris. obviously won’t happen, yet it clearly makes sense.

      was disappointed when Peter Ridd got up to give the Vote of Thanks and began by saying Abbott spoke a lot about reliability, and reliability was a matter for discussion when it comes to climate science – only to have Foxtel cut him off and go to another program altogether.

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      Annie

      Good photo David M. Sorry we didn’t meet. I was glad we managed to be there. I hope we can get the whole speech plus Peter Ridd’s vote of thanks online soon.

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    Grant (NZ)

    With such positive and forthright ACTION they cannot fail to achieve their aim. Glad they are not wasting their time on something futile and pointless.

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    pat

    this could be costly:

    3 Jul: ABC: Recycling crisis prompts Victorian Government to sink millions into sector
    By Andie Noonan and Danny Tran
    The Victorian Government says it will spend $24 million on improvements to recycling processes, and projects including a public education campaign and a plan for government departments to buy more recycled products.
    It follows a $13 million boost for local councils struggling with China’s crackdown on taking “foreign garbage”, which prompted recycling giant Visy to stop accepting kerbside recyclable waste from 22 Victorian councils.
    That means councils are considering introducing new waste levies and increasing rates…

    Funding will also go to an education campaign to help the public better understand what can and cannot be recycled.
    Ms D’Ambrosio said the education campaign could help divert around 40,000 tonnes of rubbish from landfill back into the recycling system.

    ***”What we want to ensure is that the recycling sector in Victoria is robust and sustainable,” she told ABC Radio Melbourne.
    “We need to increase the quality of recycling material and increase the productivity and diversity of the recycling sector.”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-03/recycling-crisis-victoria-24-million-funding-for-sector/9933962

    ***robust, sustainable, diversity. the language is so irritating.

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    pat

    3 Jul: ABC: Green homes give glimpse of renewable hydrogen future
    By Emily Piesse
    Imagine a house where all the electricity is generated by rooftop solar.
    Now imagine that, in addition, the stove, hot water and heating systems are all powered by the leftover energy.
    It sounds like an emission-free pipedream, but the technology may be one step closer with the launch of a $3.3 million pilot project in Perth’s south.
    Canadian gas giant ATCO is building a micro-grid at its Jandakot base, which will convert solar power into hydrogen fuel.

    The micro-grid will use 1,100 solar panels to produce electricity, which will either power ATCO’s buildings or be diverted into battery storage.
    Any leftover electricity will be used to power an electrolyser, which splits oxygen from hydrogen using water and an electric charge.
    The oxygen is released, while the so-called “green” hydrogen is captured and stored.
    The micro-grid will then store the hydrogen in two ways — using a fuel cell or injecting it into the reticulated natural gas network, to create a “greener”, lower-carbon fuel…
    ATCO Australia managing director Pat Creaghan said the micro-grid offered the potential for large-scale recycling of excess solar power…

    The Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA) contributed $1.5 million in funding towards the project.
    ARENA chief executive Ivor Frischknecht said blending hydrogen with natural gas could help solve the challenge of energy storage.
    “If you think about having a system that runs completely on wind and solar, which I think we will within a few decades … there’s going to be a big storage requirement and we need that across a variety of different storage mechanisms,” Mr Frischknecht said…

    “If you have a lot of rooftop solar, for example, the electricity network can’t deal with a lot of rooftop solar being fed into it.
    “You could potentially, on a very local level, turn some of that electricity into hydrogen and store it.”
    While blended natural gas and hydrogen fuels are used overseas, it remains to be seen whether Australia’s gas pipelines will be able to transport them.
    “Some of the existing natural gas lines are ready for it and some need some work before they will be,” Mr Frischknecht said.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-03/recycling-solar-promises-green-hydrogen-breakthrough/9934862

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    pat

    VIDEO: 3 Jul: Herald Sun: Andrew Bolt: ABBOTT IS RIGHT: GLOBAL WARMING MIGHT NOT HURT, BUT WARMING POLICIES DO
    Malcolm Turnbull as Prime Minister is giving us a kind of carbon tax. And Tony Abbott, who as Prime Minister scrapped Labor’s carbon tax, has had enough. He today calls for Australia to scrap the Paris agreement that forces us to cut emissions – and which forces up your electricity bills. My editorial on The Bolt Report.
    https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/abbott-is-right-global-warming-might-not-hurt-but-warming-policies-do/news-story/1002366b62914be7527c91b20682bf1e

    Tony Abbott wants Liberal Party to abandon emissions targets, exit Paris agreement
    The Australian-4 hours ago
    In his boldest attack on the Turnbull government, Tony Abbott has called on Australia to exit the Paris climate agreement and abandon

    Tony Abbott calls on Malcolm Turnbull to pull out of Paris Agreement
    Daily Telegraph-4 hours ago

    Follow Donald Trump on climate, Tony Abbott urges PM
    The Sydney Morning Herald-2 hours ago

    Tony Abbott urges withdrawal from Paris agreement, despite signing Australia up as PM
    The Guardian-2 hours ago

    Tony Abbott demands withdrawal from Paris climate accord
    The Australian Financial Review-3 hours ago

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    pat

    surprising well-written piece:

    3 Jul: SMH: Follow Donald Trump on climate, Tony Abbott urges PM
    By Latika Bourke
    The former PM now says he never anticipated the climate change reduction targets he signed up would be binding.
    Delivering the 2018 Bob Carter Commemorative Lecture in Melbourne, Mr Abbott said he had never thought reducing greenhouse gas emissions was worth doing, unless it could be done at a modest cost.

    He said despite the rate of carbon in the atmosphere increasing from 300 to 400 parts per million there had been no “dramatic consequences” on the climate.
    “Storms are not more severe; droughts are not more prolonged; floods are not greater; and fires are not more intense than a century ago – despite hyperventilating reportage and over-the-top claims from Green politicians,” the former prime minister said…

    “Sea levels have hardly risen and temperatures are still below those of the medieval warm period.
    “Over time, temperature change seems to correlate rather more with sun spot activity than with carbon dioxide levels,” he claimed…

    But Mr Abbott said the public was” inclined to believe that something is happening” “and that “something needs to be done” because they are “egged on by media scare stories and attention-seeking academics”.
    “But our children won’t thank us when their power bills keep soaring and their jobs keep going offshore in a futile bid to make the world imperceptibly cooler,” he said…

    “I certainly didn’t anticipate, as prime minister, how the aspirational targets we agreed to at Paris would, in different hands, become binding commitments,” he said.
    Mr Abbott said that with President Donald Trump withdrawing the United States from the Paris agreement Australia should follow suit.
    “Our 2015 target, after all, was set on the basis that the agreement would be ‘applicable to all…parties,” he said.

    “Absent America, my government would not have signed up to the Paris treaty, certainly not with the current target.
    “Withdrawing from the Paris agreement that is driving the National Energy Guarantee would be the best way to keep prices down and employment up; and to save our party from a political legacy that could haunt us for the next decade at least.”…
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/follow-donald-trump-on-climate-tony-abbott-urges-pm-20180703-p4zpah.html

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    pat

    Latika at SMH omitted all mention of coal; at least Grattan brings it up at the end of her piece:

    3 Jul: The Conversation: Exit Paris climate agreement: Tony Abbott
    by Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra
    Tony Abbott has called for Australia to pull out of the Paris climate agreement, in a swingeing attack on Malcolm Turnbull’s National Energy Guarantee.
    Abbott said the NEG was not about reducing prices but about cutting emissions. “The only certainty that the National Energy Guarantee as it stands would provide is the certainty of emissions reduction.”

    Delivering the Bob Carter Commemorative Lecture in Melbourne, Abbott said: “Withdrawing from the Paris agreement that is driving the National Energy Guarantee would be the best way to keep prices down and employment up – and to save our party from a political legacy that could haunt us for the next decade at least”.
    “As long as we remain in the Paris agreement – which is about reducing emissions, not building prosperity – all policy touching on emissions will be about their reduction, not our well-being. It’s the emissions obsession that’s at the heart of our power crisis and it’s this that has to end for our problems to ease.”…

    “These are strange times in Canberra when there’s a hullaballoo over modest tax cuts that only take effect fully in six or seven years’ time, while mandatory emissions cuts that start sooner, that mean more for the economy, and whose ramifications will be virtually impossible to reverse are expected more or less to be waved through”…

    Abbott said he could understand “the government would like to crack the so-called trilemma of keeping the lights on, getting power prices down and reducing emissions in line with our Paris targets – it’s just that there’s no plausible evidence all three can be done at the same time”…
    “If you read the National Energy Guarantee documentation, there’s a few lines about lower prices, a few pages about maintaining supply, and page after impenetrable page about reducing emissions…

    Abbott repeated his call for the government to subsidise the boosting of baseload power. He again suggested threatening to compulsorily acquire Liddell coal-fired power station, which AGL is refusing either to keep going or to sell.
    http://theconversation.com/exit-paris-climate-agreement-tony-abbott-99319

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    pat

    Giles before Abbott’s lecture.
    ***who is “WE”?

    3 Jul: RenewEconomy: Giles Parkinson: Turnbull’s fine line on climate: Capitulation or denial?
    Tony Abbott is at it again. And so too are the rest of the crew – Matt Canavan, Judith Sloan, Nick Cater, and the endless cast of malcontents in the Murdoch media and the Coalition back-bench and ministry.
    For months ***we have lamented the stupidity of the debate around climate and energy, and the extraordinary push-back from conservatives against any new technologies such as wind, solar, battery storage, demand management, and electric vehicles.
    Surely, ***we said, the debate could not get any dumber. ***We were wrong…

    Abbott, in a speech to the Australian Environment Foundation, a “think tank” whose main platform is to deny climate science and preach against wind farms, will claim that the NEG is all about emissions. And that, therefore, must be bad.
    Except that it is not. The Coalition’s emissions target, signed off by Abbott when he was prime minister, requires a reduction of just 26 per cent in electricity sector emissions from 2005 to 2030…

    In the age of Trump, it is OK to be an international pariah. And to spout nonsense…
    Abbott, in excerpts of his speech reportedly due to be delivered on Tuesday night and reported on the front page by, who else, The Australian, says it is impossible to address energy reliability, prices, and emissions at the same time.
    He also does not like the idea of consensus. “It’s not a circle you can square with the Labor Party,” he says. “It is a fight that has to be won. There can be no consensus on climate change …. you either win or lose …. and at the moment we are losing.”

    Hey, we know the feeling. Anyone who has taken climate science seriously, and is vaguely literate on economical and technology issues, can see the multiple benefits – environmental, engineering, and economics – of the clean energy transition.
    But Abbott and his fellow pot-holes are not budging. While the former PM charged headlong into the trenches, his conga-line of supporters were defending the flanks, attacking those who would challenge the right wing.

    Nick Cater, the head of the Menzies Research Centre (about as much an insult to the legacy of Robert Menzies as the Monash Forum is to John Monash), made himself and his readers feel good with a spray against Tasmania’s Greens. Something about pumped hydro and wind power.

    Economist Judith Sloan turned her arrows to the new head of the National Farmers Federation, Fiona Simson, who in an interview with The Guardian last week dared to admit that she took climate change seriously.
    In a piece titled “You’re fashionable Fiona, but get a grip on the facts,” Sloan said she was appalled that the NFF should decide it should act on climate change.
    “My advice to the NFF and Simson is to stick to your knitting,” Sloan wrote. “Getting into bed with climate change enthusiasts is a quick route to the introduction of a raft of new policies that will damage the farming community.”
    Farmers are tough, she said, and would deal with any changing weather patterns, just like they always had. “It’s time the NFF began to stand up for the farmers rather than take fashionable positions on topics that are poorly understood by its leadership.” And she threw the NEG in for good measure…
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/turnbulls-fine-line-climate-capitulation-denial-62241/

    comments are fun, as always.

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    What is with the toques and scarves. It looks more like a bunch of Canadians getting rid of excess beer.

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    pat

    E&E and WaPo links are behind paywall, but the link to 2 July PDF, by Environmental Governance and Data Initiative works.

    2 Jul: Pacific Standard Mag: ‘Climate Change’ Has Been Scrubbed From More Government Documents
    by Francie Diep
    The Department of the Treasury removed mentions of “climate change” from an unpublished sustainability report it prepared for 2017, E&E News reports (LINK). Meanwhile, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health—which researches risks to workers’ health—has removed “climate change” from certain webpages, according to work from the Environmental Governance and Data Initiative (LINK), an advocacy group that tracks government websites.

    These two alterations, both publicly revealed on Monday, are just the latest example of government agencies scrubbing “climate change” from their websites and reports…
    Outside experts the Washington Post interviewed (LINK) regarding the website changes argued that the substance of NIOSH’s pages wasn’t significantly changed; staffers simply appeared to remove buzzwords that that might draw ire from the administration…

    But does it matter if an agency talks about “climate conditions,” “climate variations,” or “climate change”?
    In January, Pacific Standard spoke with an Environmental Governance and Data Initiative volunteer, Eric Nost, who argued that it does:

    Close observers and Beltway insiders might understand that “climate conditions” means “climate change,” but everyday Americans might not. Nost, a doctoral student in geography at the University of Wisconsin–Madison, noted that a name change “definitely changes how the public and policymakers understand what the issue is, what’s at stake, and what it’s related to.”
    https://psmag.com/environment/climate-change-has-been-scrubbed-from-more-government-documents

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    Roy Hogue

    It seems almost pointless to comment about this but there in that picture are 5 of the most sterling citizens showing us exactly what they use for thinking. I guess they must use their heads for battering rams or something equally useful — maybe paperweights?

    I saved the picture to show to anyone who can be convinced to listen to how bad it is. I’m not holding my breath waiting for any improvement. Boo, hiss! :-(

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    tylos

    I’ll meet you under the c0cks

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