JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Climate bargain, going cheap! Pay now, save $Trillions, stop Storms, Droughts, Bad Stuff. Ends today!

Hurry Now and Save Trillions!

A 500 trillion, gazillion dollar bill is coming for you unless you buy my solar-panel-techno-wind-battery gizmo NOW! Don’t miss out. You too, can be a world saving star for a bargain price. Free planet with nice weather thrown in. Offer ends at midnight.

Seriously, have you always wanted to stop storms, vermin, disease, plagues, hunger, poverty, droughts, floods, and shrinking fish and chips?

All of this and much more if you just pay up now, pay today, pay tomorrow, and hock your children’s future.

Save $500 Trillion dollars, Save the Earth Now, poster, satire, James Hansen, climate change, global warming.

Hands up who wants to be a hero?

Who needs an economist to calculate the biggest bill you’ve ever seen? (It’s a record, the Largest Ever Bill in Four Million Years! )

World’s young face $535 trillion bill for climate

The next generation will have to pay a $535 trillion bill to tackle climate change, relying on unproven and speculative technology.

LONDON, 19 July, 2017 – One of the world’s most famous climate scientists has just calculated the financial burden that tomorrow’s young citizens will face to keep the globe at a habitable temperature and contain global warming and climate change – a $535 trillion bill.

And much of that will go on expensive technologies engineered to suck 1,000 billion metric tons of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide from the air by the year 2100.

Of course, if humans started to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 6% a year right now, the end of the century challenge would be to take 150 billion tonnes from the atmosphere, and most of this could be achieved simply by better forest and agricultural management, according to a new study in the journal Earth System Dynamics.

People who don’t buy up this great offer are Selfish, Scumbag Deniers, who are hurting their children, practically pedophiles, and definitely fools who should never be invited to your dinner parties, ever! Mankind controls the Climate. This is Science, totally scientific, as certain as Gravity, Penicillin and Planes, and only a charlatan shill for fossil fuels would even ask about the error bars. Don’t trust anyone who does!

Only days to go before the Sale of the Century closes.

PS: Readers, please suggest your own posters. I’ll make the best ones into posters. :- )

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177 comments to Climate bargain, going cheap! Pay now, save $Trillions, stop Storms, Droughts, Bad Stuff. Ends today!

  • #

    You have to laugh when the scared little snowflakes read all this and panic, wondering at that humungous cost.

    Me, well I look at it at and think of all the people out there rubbing their hands together with glee.

    You see, it’s not the $535 Trillion that WE poor suckers have to pay that is needed to be worried about.

    What these snowflakes fail so utterly to see is that someone, somewhere is actually going to GET their hands on their own huge cut of that $535 Trillion. They are actually excited at the prospect.

    Tony.

    442

    • #
      ЯΞ√ΩLUT↑☼N

      Thing is Tony, as impossible a task as removing all CO2 from the atmosphere is in reality, they haven’t figured what our children will eat when all plants asphyxiate thanks to their “inventiveness”.

      341

      • #
        sophocles

        That’s just it. They consider the present population of a mere 7.5 billion or so, to be an `overburden’ on the planet, so if it can be reduced to about 2 million or thereabouts, all that plant life just won’t be necessary.

        The present population is not really a lot. It just happens to be concentrated in a relatively few large urban areas (cities). The cause of those concentrations are never considered. (Bad land tenure systems …) And their desired target of 2 million seems to be more likely a non-viable long term population, anyway.

        30

      • #
        Manfred

        It hardly matters does it? If the World continues to warm then the CO2 level will continue to rise. The handful of human molecules won’t matter diddly squat. On the other hand, if the World cools, how are the snowflakes going to keep warm without adding a molecule or two?
        Anthropophagism only goes so far, though it clearly went far enough in New Zealand. Reassuringly though for the Globocult, there appears to be nine places where it is still practised, though I would take the source with a pinch of sauce.

        10

    • #

      The number has no meaning any more.

      People will soon be graduating from colleges; functionally innumerate

      California College Chancellor Wants To Abolish Algebra Requirement, Calls It A ‘Civil Rights Issue’
      Eloy Ortiz Oakley, chancellor of California Community Colleges, made the argument while speaking with NPR. He pegged algebraas overly burdensome due to the disproportionate rate at which it prevents students from graduating from community colleges; nearly 50 percent of community college students do not complete their math requirement.

      The chancellor said that other higher education institutions, such as the Carnegie Foundation and the University of Texas, were pondering the change. He suggested that statistics could replace algebra as a new requirement.

      Yes folks; the insane are running the asylums.

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      • #
        Alan McIntire

        That raises the obvious question, “If students don’t want to learn algebra, what are they doing in college in the first place?”

        200

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I never thought I would see this level of stupidity in a society that depends so much on knowing mathematics. But then it is NPR giving this BS a forum.

        190

      • #
        David Maddison

        Don’t forget that the dumbing down of Western education systems as required by the elites has been going on for 40-50 years now.

        Teachers in schools and universities are now second or third generation dumbed down and would not be able to graduate under the standards that held back then.

        Even subjects like engineering have been dumbed down, how else could engineers get involved in outlandish projects like wind power when coal, hydro or nuclear power is available? The only legitimate application for wind or solar power is on remote sites where even a regular resupply of diesel for generators is not possible.

        221

        • #
          bobl

          Not exactly right, Solar / wind is good for remote sites where diesel resupply is easy, but where the cost of resupplying is high enough, solar can reduce the frequency of resupply considerably. It is also good for things where the low power density and intermittency aren’t issues. for example, rather than spend $2000 on a 500m electricity line to my dam to power an irrigation pump or constantly be filling a diesel pump, I can install a 50 watt DC pump on a 100Watt solar panel, and pump the water down a ldpe trickle feed line to a tank near the electricity source. The tank fills up slowly then periodically I can empty it onto the crop. If I owned a convenient hill, I could even do away with the high power electric pump. This arrangement works better that the diesel pump because, once it’s electric, I can automate the whole thing. It’s also cheaper than installing a 500m underground power line.

          You can see how in certain niche domains intermittent energy scavenging tech actually works, windmills have been used to pump water for centuries for the same reason.

          340

          • #
            el gordo

            Good argument bob, I totally agree with your rationale.

            60

          • #
            bobl

            As a point some might wonder why I don’t use a 100 Watt pump on my 100 watt solar panel. Well that’s because a pump needs a certain voltage, and draws a certain current as a load. VxI = P (Wattage), if you undervoltage a motor, it will either run slower, or it will stall, draw more current and be damaged depending on the type of motor. So in general you can only turn on the motor when the solar panel can produce the motors wattage. Here’s where Solar panels fail, a 100Watt solar panel will only produce 100 Watts when the insolation is above 100 Watts/per square meter or for about an hour around midday in summer when the humidity is below 20% and the temperature is below 25 degrees. In most parts of the world, that means almost never being able to turn on the pump without the risk of damaging it. By derating to 50Watts I extend the run time to 5-7 hours a day on good days and it will still work for some part of the day on any day where the insolation is above 500Watts per square meter (light cloud), if I put a 20Watt motor on it I could run it from dusk to dawn on most days even where insolation is down to 200 Watts per square meter ( on those days, Moderate cloud where there is no net evaporation, or when it is raining, I don’t really care if I can’t pump irrigation water). So it works.

            This is the same problem as for grid energy, to get solar reliable you have to derate to a fifth to meet energy demand on dull days, to have left over power to store for the 19 hours a day that there is no output in winter you have to derate by a further 24/5 and so the overbuild for reliable 24 hour power is 5 x 24/5 = 24 times.

            If you don’t have this you need the capacity to back it up with something (fossil fuel power), but if you have that (in my example a 50 watt generator) then why spend the extra for all the expensive solar guff – then the solar bits are just “Gold plating”.

            It’s tough being an engineer sometimes, you can’t unknow stuff to become a gullible and get invited to the right dinner parties.

            30

            • #

              bobl, (my bolding here)

              …..if I put a 20Watt motor on it I could run it from dusk to dawn on most days even where insolation is down to 200 Watts per square meter ( on those days, Moderate cloud where there is no net evaporation, or when it is raining, I don’t really care if I can’t pump irrigation water). So it works.

              Umm, should that be vice versa?

              Also where you mention this as well,

              It’s tough being an engineer sometimes, you can’t unknow stuff to become a gullible and get invited to the right dinner parties.

              It’s also amazing how you can do most of that ‘stuff’ in your head. When I do it, (and I’m not an Engineer) people just say that because I can come out with a response so quickly, then I’m obviously just making it up.

              Tony.

              51

              • #
                bobl

                Um yes, good pickup, mea culpa, of course I meant Dawn to Dusk. And yes, after 30 years as an engineer I can rattle off “Technical Stuff” pretty quickly. Also Engineers need to be good at estimating, if you get a result that is too big, or too small then you just know it has to be wrong and you check “three times”. You also need to understand scale, since Solar made reliable only gets 1/24th of nameplate you need a huge area of them to overbuild enough, with all the overbuilding the CO2 debt created in making the panels and building the related infrastructure is never paid back by the CO2 savings.

                To an engineer once you know there is a 24 times overbuild, you know this must be the case intuitively.

                “Scientists” though don’t, they run their models and assume the answer is right, they don’t get deregistered and lose their livelihood when they are wrong or their is a confounding factor, they use statements like “all other things being equal” which Engineers know is almost never true, all other things are almost never equal. They attribute antarctic melting or ice balance movement observations to CO2 warming without even bothering to check whether the energy from CO2 warming is sufficient to cause the effect they are measuring. An engineer doesn’t make these mistakes, they check energy, and moment, and force everywhere to make sure what they build doesn’t break catastrophically and kill people.

                This is the difference between a Scientist (Who theorises science) and an Engineer (Who applies science) Engineers know that no matter how wonderful the theory, the practise is full of practicalities that mean the theory is never representative of the real world. Beams have dendrites and microfractures, electrical materials have losses, magnetism twists and distorts metals, hydrogen fuels enbrittle pipes, ethanol attacks the chemical bonds in many polymers. We also know that no system is 100% efficient as climate science expects the earth to be, there are ALWAYS losses.

                Scientists ignore the real world, Engineers live in it.

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          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Not exactly right, Solar / wind is good for remote sites …

            Bob,

            Good thing to mention.

            If you drive from the Colorado River on East toward Kingman Arizona on Interstate 10 you’ll be close enough to the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad for a long ways and it’s obvious that they have solar panels along the right of way. They’re fairly large and obvious and the only reason can be to provide power for signaling. Running commercial power is a pricy item because the railroad is a long way from the nearest power and railroad signaling is not a heavy power user. They obviously charge batteries for nighttime and bad weather use and apparently it works quite well for them.

            Here’s a company specializing in such applications with some good pictures.

            20

        • #
          John Michelmore

          It makes sense to dumb down the population; this climate scam, the absolute mis-management of Australia’s energy resources and most of the spin coming out of government are acceptable to a population that can’t see reality because they can’t analyse what they are being told! I fear for future Australian generations.

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          • #
            el gordo

            ‘…a population that can’t see reality because they can’t analyse what they are being told! ‘

            Which is why its imperative we take over the organs of mass propaganda: ABC, SBS, Fairfax and Guardian. With these tools in our hands we can bring about a revolution.

            Fear not, this is the adventure of a lifetime.

            60

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        The chancellor has no concept of what “higher education” means, and the students have no self-respect to accept his definition of it.

        The old joke is that you can’t get a job at McDonalds unless you have a degree. If this comes in, the degree won’t even be evidence that a kid can count to 10.

        70

      • #
        Allen Ford

        Goodbye, Science and Engineering Faculties1! But pray tell, how does Eloy propose to “do” statistics without algebra?

        How on earth do bozos such as Eloy get to be Chancellors of academies of higher learning, with such idiotic views?

        60

      • #
        Leonard Lane

        Bernd, you said it!
        Advanced Jr High students (7th & 8th grades) can take introductory or pre- algebra in some school districts in the USA.
        And then Algebra I,II, trigonometry, and calculus I in high school.
        This all depends upon which state, county, and school district the schools are in. States that consistently vote Republican, usually in many school districts. In Democrat states not so much, and in big inter-cities almost never unless private school or home school.

        20

      • #
        Mary E

        I am not good at math – at least, not good at maths I don’t use regularly. I have failed – in spectacular fashion – several math courses in my life, including algebra. And managed to eventually learn what I needed to know with the help of a tutor or simply a different, better, professor.

        Algebra is not hard. Tedious at times, but not hard. Having to pass algebra in order to get a 2 yr degree (Associate’s) from a community college should not be an issue. Most high schoolers in the USofA have to pass algebra to get their HS diploma, or, at least, they do here in the NE USA.

        00

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Don’t feel bad, Mary. I’ve always found all but the simplest of algebra problems to be taxing for some reason. I’ve had to work out solutions 3 and 4 times before I found my mistakes. Of course the computer found them instantly when something didn’t work as it should. Calculus was easier for some reason. Weird brain, maybe.

          I would have been utterly lost if I didn’t know how to do the algebra, whether simple or complex. So any graduate who doesn’t master algebra becaus it’s a civil rights issue will forever be locked out of the best paying and most challenging jobs. But there’s always sweeping floors in the middle of the night to fall back on. And I suppose the truth is that some of today’s students aren’t looking for challenging careers anyway. They’re looking for a free ride.

          00

    • #
      mal

      The 4 steps to sell insurance
      1 Get the customers attention. (IPCC, Greenies compliant media and self serving politicians.
      2 tell the sucker, sorry customer that he, the earth , kids, grandkids, polar bears, whatever) have a problem
      2 Tell them you have a solution and It will only cost $500 Trillion dollars
      4 Close the deal, Give me money.

      That’s how life insurance has been sold for years,

      That’s how this global warming farce is being sold

      221

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        Life insurance has got to be one of the all time “sucker”est things ever invented.
        You give them money, and they give you nothing in return. Perhaps one day, maybe.
        Wonderful system.

        70

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      … only a shill … would even ask about the error bars.

      I can’t speak for you Tony, but I have wandered in a few error bars in my time. You know, the kind of bar where you don’t pay to get in, but have to pay to leave …

      100

    • #
      bobl

      From their own advertising one of the hopefuls is AGL.

      50

    • #
      Ve2

      Financial institutions typically make 6% on turnover said go figure.

      11

  • #

    Or do nothing and there won’t be anything to pay, or worry about. Anyway, we’ve missed the tipping point, or the 20,30, 50 or whatever the count is now, so we might as well do nothing.

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    • #
      Rollo

      When is the tipping point again? Now that the science is settled the specific date and time should be documented somewhere.

      PS. I miss the once regular announcement of tipping points. They are much more frightening than the odd storm or drought.

      142

      • #
        el gordo

        Tipping points are good, this from the Australian Energy and Environment Dept.

        ‘A study of 29 locations in Australia found that for a mid-range sea level rise of 50 cm extreme sea level events that happened every few years now, are likely to occur every few days in 2100.

        ‘On average, Australia will experience a roughly 300-fold increase in flooding events, meaning that infrastructure that is presently flooded once in 100 years will be flooded several times per year with a sea level rise of 50 cm.’

        70

        • #
          bobl

          This of course precludes the obviously impossible task of dumping a 50cm pile (I’m not sure 50 cm even constitutes a “Pile”) of dirt between the water source and the flooding infrastructure at 29 locations around Australia at a cost of a few thousand bucks, Instead it’s $535 Trillion to plaster windmills and solar panels over every square inch of the world.

          I know, let’s call it a “landfill” and people will run around making a nice, ever growing pile for free!

          20

    • #
      Allen Ford

      At the screening of Climate Hustle, last Tuesday, in the part where Prince Cholls intoned in his plummy tones, various tipping points over a decade or so, “We have only 10 months/days/minutes, to act or the planet gets it!”, drew much mirth from the audience.

      I think the tipping point meme has long since passed its used by date.

      60

    • #
      Ve2

      Hansen just pushed his 2018 end of world projection out to 2168.

      THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED.

      20

  • #

    And while we are ridding the world of carbon dioxide, we might as well do the same with hydrogen dioxide and the planet will once again experience Nirvana.

    150

    • #

      HO2?????

      Isn’t that Alan Moffatt and Colin Bond?

      Tony.

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      • #

        Ah shoot, I meant di-hydrogen oxide. It must be the bloody cold affecting my brain.

        131

        • #

          I’ve always considered it hydrogen hydroxide. Nasty stuff, both an acid AND a base !

          131

          • #
            bobl

            Or of course Oxygen Hydride (OH2) would be the proper way to express this particular compound. It is one of the leading causes of death in humans, one of the most dangerous chemicals on earth.

            30

            • #
              sophocles

              OH2 – that’s Oxygen di-hydride.
              Can be fatal if incorrectly applied.

              40

              • #
                bobl

                Yes, but if you look at the other hydrides they don’t spell out the quantity unless there are other stable permutations for example Ferric Hydride is FeH4, Because the valence of Oxygen is 2, and the compound is only Oxygen and Hydrogen, the di- isn’t necessary because there is no need to differentiate from OH or OH3 – There is no OH or OH3 molecule to differentiate from, ION yes, Molecule no so Oxygen Hydride OH2 is the only possible stable non ionic form.

                20

        • #
          Russ Wood

          On Dihydrogen Monoxide – the American Penn & Teller comedy/investigation team once got a few hundred members of an “environment crusade” bunch to sign a petition against it! The stupid is growing!

          00

    • #
      Another Ian

      Bemused

      Do you not have your 2X’s reversed?

      33

    • #
      David Maddison

      In this video people do in fact sign a petition to ban water.

      https://youtu.be/zfTUklMF9Wg

      71

  • #

    OK, I have to ask this. Has anyone anywhere done a full blown experiment using sealed chambers, in a controlled environment, with a diverse variety of plants and exposed them to a series of temperature, humidity and CO2 variations, to gauge the effects? I know there have been some that just compare CO2 level changes, but I haven’t seen anything that takes a much broader approach to try and replicate global environments.

    41

    • #
      Another Ian

      bemused

      There was that large scale attempt to mimic an ecosystem in a jar IIRC. No links atm.

      Maybe some results from that?

      But then IIRC it didn’t work too well.

      41

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      We (note the royal prerogative) did an experiment almost identical to the one you describe. We even gave it a fancy name. It was called hydroponies: hydro, as in water; and ponies, as in the primary output of small equines.

      51

    • #
      Yonniestone

      The best experiment we have is called Earth as its the only environment that vents to outer space….or conduct it inside James Hansen’s head, there must be a bloody big void in there!

      122

      • #
        Craig Thomas

        I am 99.99% certain that James Hansen’s head has vastly more contents than does Yonniestone’s head.

        436

        • #

          I see that even that 97% meme is suffering from inflation as well.

          Tony.

          282

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Says Craig with the Anthony Perkins-esque psycho photo, is that slender man in the background?

          71

          • #
            KinkyKeith

            Tats not AP, it’s the 1916 irish hero Michael Collins.

            Google photos of.

            Nothing original here, move on.

            KK

            70

            • #
              Rereke Whakaaro

              Oh do not raise the ghost of Michael Collins, even if he does look like Craig.

              For to be sure, we will all be visited by his ghost, so we will.

              60

            • #
              Graeme No.3

              So it is a Fake Irishman using a Fake photo to protest about a Fake problem.

              40

        • #
          Peter C

          Yonniestone’s head is a sphere! It has the greatest possible internal volume.

          61

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          I am 99.99% certain that James Hansen’s head has vastly more contents than does Yonniestone’s head.

          What counts is the ability to do useful things. Now what exactly has James Hansen accomplished that is useful? He can’t even get the world to swallow his line of bull.

          The politically correct number is 97%, by the way.

          110

          • #
            KinkyKeith

            And now we are in Phanthiet on the coast it’s raining 97% of the time.

            KK

            50

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              KK,

              Then my memory went wrong and it is the rainy season after all. Must be getting old. :-(

              I hope your umbrella is up to the job.

              I can still remember the time the wind blew so hard that a heavy rain came at the barracks almost horizontally and being just glorified chicken coops with some louvers on the side to deflect water it came right on in and the guy on the windward end had a puddle in the middle of his bunk. I kid you not. There was standing water in the middle of the mattress — or what passes for one to the army. The bunk was a good 2.5 – 3 feet from the screen and louvers and the roof overlapped beyond that by at least a foot but the water came on in anyway.

              Amazing rainstorms!

              10

          • #
            Greg Cavanagh

            Craig does love his heroes.
            I always did wonder who his photo was of. I gotta say, that does fit his profile.

            10

          • #
            Leonard Lane

            And I am about 50% certain that Craig is a high school student or equivalent experience and knowledge.

            30

        • #
          bobl

          Is that right Craig, well we will just go with his opinion then. He’s on record as saying that wind and solar power are toys and he thinks we need to use Nuclear power instead of coal, are you OK with that?

          30

      • #

        Unfortunately the warming worriers use just that as their example of impending doom. A wide scale monitored experiment would provide at least some verifiable evidence of likely scenarios. I am aware that greenhouse operators make extensive use of CO2 to promote plant growth. There’s a vast tomato growing operation in Gippsland (next to the Princes Freeway) that is fully enclosed and an ecosystem in its own right, but it’s not what could be considered a controlled experiment.

        20

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      bemused:

      Not quite sealed chambers but you can buy glass fronted cabinets with temperature control off the shelf, and they have been available since the 1970′s (probably earlier). Used for plant growth experiments. Add controlled light and atmosphere and away you go. There have certainly been experiments with plants at increasing CO2 levels and photos available on the net
      e.g. http://www.adividedworld.com/scientific-issues/co2-levels-in-air-dangerously-low-for-life-on-earth/

      51

    • #
      FarmerDoug2

      Suspect greenhouse farmers have been experementing awhile. Results will be comercial in confidence.
      Doug

      41

    • #
      Hivemind

      The largest building we could get our hands on would still behave like a layer cake. Nothing at all like the real atmosphere.

      21

    • #
      Paul Aubrin

      An experiment on the effect of carbon dioxide on plants? It is routinely done in greenhouses, base on works by agronomists.

      http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0304423887900288

      30

  • #

    HURRY NOW AND SAVE TRILLIONS !

    FIRE SALE…

    Trojan Horses! White Elephants! And don’t miss
    this once in a life-time opportunity – Polar Bears!

    Enviro-non-error-bar guarantee for all products.

    131

    • #

      And don’t miss
      this once in a life-time opportunity – Polar Bears!

      At least the poor snowflakes will have photographs and videos of those poley bears.

      I’m pi$$ed off with the fact that all we have are artists reconstructions of what the Dinosaurs looked like.

      Tony.

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      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Tony, here’s five living examples that are available for real life study:

        Pachycephalosauria weatherdillus
        Pachycephalosauria flannerius
        Pachycephalosauria mannus
        Pachycephalosauria nyeus
        Pachycephalosauria pachaurius

        No reconstructions please. Although they say that Pachycephalosauria mannus was renowned for his.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      We will not be beaten on 2 1/2 inch error bars!

      92

    • #
      Craig Thomas

      You’re kind of like a kid with its fingers in its ears screaming, “no, you can’t tell me, I don’t want to”.

      https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/satellite-snafu-masked-true-sea-level-rise-for-decades/

      Climate change is happening, whether you believe it or not, and the cost of rising seas will be astronomical.

      535

      • #

        In the spirit of the comedy attached with this Thread, I see that even Craig is getting into the spirit.

        Tony.

        273

        • #
          Yonniestone

          For the spirit of this thread we need the Dodgy Brothers slick sales style Tony. :)

          102

          • #

            The these two guys would be right at home when it comes to all this.

            Xavier and Craig

            Tony.

            133

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              I keep think of Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure…….

              BOGUS,dude …..!!!!!!!

              20

            • #
              Leonard Lane

              And Scientific American has been shown repeatedly to be a very scholarly journal that is completely unbiased. So y’all pay attention to Craig’s link.
              If it is in Scientific American or Algore said you know it is 100% on the level.

              10

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          … even Craig is getting into the spirit.

          That would explain why his comments are so incoherent, and way divergent from any semblance of reality.

          I am glad we sorted that out.

          100

        • #
          Leonard Lane

          No Tony, I think he is confusing snafu with adjustments to bias the temperature record higher. No adjustment that I have ever seen lowers the recent temperatures or lessens the trend with time.

          10

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Craig you’re kind of like a kid that’s eaten a lot of lead paint chips.

        183

      • #

        Climate change is happening? Of course it’s happening,
        see-saw Roman and Medieval Warmings to LIA and variations
        even within warm/cold teeter-totter weather.

        Sceptics get this, Craig, the guileful change was warmist
        terminology adjustment from ‘global warming’ to ‘climate
        change.’ So Orwellian.

        233

      • #
        David A

        Craig, do you know that global geo stationary tide gauges show exactly zero of the CURRENT satellite acceleration from this adjustoscene epoch? ( A real question for you Craig.)

        223

      • #
        el gordo

        Craig there is increasing mass balance in Greenland, a global cooling signal.

        https://www.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/

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        let’s see, reducing CO2 from 0.04% to 0.035%.. my best guess is the result of such a massive geoengineering endeavor would succeed in cutting food production by 10-12% and living biomass on the planet by a comparable amount.

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        • #

          Oh and also also also..

          Compressing that much refrigerant (any gas) will release a *lot* of heat into the environment. Lots of energy needed to do the compressing too so we’d probably need to burn lots of fuel to achieve it.

          Why don’t they just wrap Earth in a big piece of mylar?

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          bobl

          Worse, 50PPM represents 25% reduction is growth and yield.

          Basically we would have had the food of 1970 when world pop was 3.7 billion to feed the population of 2016 (around when 400ppm was reached) 7.5B people. One of the biggest reasons that we haven’t run up against food limits to population is the growth of CO2. Stop the growth of CO2 with population and (eventually, and inevitably) famine will follow. Erlich IS right, there ARE fundamental limits to population BUT they are not fixed, the carrying capacity of the planet is set by the CO2 level, more CO2 means more life can be sustained.

          Having said that, animal life produces a lot of CO2 in a cycle, so the animals make the CO2 for the plants that make the food for the animals. CO2 IS dangerously low and we are utterly dependent on the level, the more people there are, the more CO2 we need to be in the atmosphere. Reducing CO2 is a crime against all living things. I think the level needs to be at least 1500ppm (0.15%) and preferably 1% (10000ppm) for the human race to survive a major glaciation, so I am happy to see CO2 on the rise.

          40

      • #
        It'snothingnew

        Hey Craig Thomas,a good read for you may be Heaven+Earth by Ian Plimer.All science based,historically proven.And the author is an actual scientist!No computer models,no dodgy stats and no bodgy tampering with statistics.A true documentation of the earths climate past and present.

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        RobertR

        Well, if “the cost of rising seas” were really considered to be astronomical by for example, Timflann and a certain Aussie actress, they wouldn’t have water front properties, would they?

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        Lionell Griffith

        News flash: In a few billion years, the sun is going to burn out of nuclear fuel and expand to the orbit of Jupiter. It will have completely wipe out all life in the inner solar system. Perhaps you need to start planning your move to Neptune.

        Expect to pay for the trip yourself. We want no part of it. Mostly because we do put such events into a rational perspective by multiplying their cost by their probability of occurrence and discounted over the estimated time to occurrence.

        Perhaps if you too were able to put things into perspective, you might not have to wet your pants in panic quite so often. You need to stop panicking over things that go bump in the night or all those monsters in that dark corner of your closet.

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        peter

        Looks like they have used tidal gauges to calibrate the satellite measurement of ocean levels? Amazing, no wonder the sea-level rise now matches the tidal gauges. Lol. But seriously, can Jo please comment on this claim by Scientific American & Craig that satellites now show the sea-level rising rapidly and confirming Climate Change theory?

        00

    • #
      sophocles

      But what about Penguins?
      They’re threatened too …

      20

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        The penguins can look after themselves. You never see news reports of penguins being eaten by polar bears.

        Polar bears will not go within a bulls roar of penguins.

        It just doesn’t happen, except in a few zoos, where the keepers have to keep them very separate, in order to protect the bears.

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  • #
    • #
      Another Ian

      “the worst case is the only thing that prompts us to get anything done”

      Well I guess that is how the “yellow stream media” gets to write columns

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  • #
    Watt

    I’m sure it’s often been repeated but hey, there’s a first time for everyone.

    Or you could watch or just listen to it if preferred

    We didn’t have this Green thing back then

    ” Checking out at the store, the young cashier suggested to the much older lady that she should bring her own grocery bags, because plastic bags are not good for the environment.
    The woman apologized to the young girl and explained, “We didn’t have this ‘green thing’ back in my earlier days.”

    The young clerk responded, “That’s our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future generations.”

    The older lady said that she was right — our generation didn’t have the “green thing” in its day. The older lady went on to explain:
    Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled. But we didn’t have the “green thing” back in our day.

    Grocery stores bagged our groceries in brown paper bags that we reused for numerous things. Most memorable besides household garbage bags was the use of brown paper bags as book covers for our school books. This was to ensure that public property (the books provided for our use by the school) was not defaced by our scribblings. Then we were able to personalize our books on the brown paper bags. But, too bad we didn’t do the “green thing” back then.
    We walked up stairs because we didn’t have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn’t climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

    But she was right. We didn’t have the “green thing” in our day.

    Back then we washed the baby’s diapers because we didn’t have the throw away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy-gobbling machine burning up 220 volts. Wind and solar power really did dry our clothes back in our early days. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing.

    But that young lady is right; we didn’t have the “green thing” back in our day.
    Back then we had one TV, or radio, in the house — not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana. In the kitchen we blended and stirred by hand because we didn’t have electric machines to do everything for us. When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used wadded up old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap. Back then, we didn’t fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn’t need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

    But she’s right; we didn’t have the “green thing” back then.

    We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water. We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blade in a r azor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

    But we didn’t have the “green thing” back then.

    Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service in the family’s $45,000 SUV or van, which cost what a whole house did before the”green thing.” We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn’t need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 23,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest burger joint.

    But isn’t it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn’t have the “green thing” back then?

    Please forward this on to another selfish old person who needs a lesson in conservation from a smart *ss young person.

    We don’t like being old in the first place, so it doesn’t take much to p*ss us off… Especially from a tattooed, multiple pierced smartass who can’t make change without the cash register telling them how much. ”
    .

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      RobertR

      Especially from a tattooed, multiple pierced smartass who can’t make change without the cash register telling them how much.

      Hey, that’s funny! Had exactly the same thing happen to me the other day. One of the above serving coffee in a local ‘hipster’ coffee shop I go to sometimes got confused when I handed over a five dollar note for a four dollar coffee. I never got the change even tho I asked for it a couple of times. Don’t mind tipping, but……

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      bobl

      I love that piece as a selfish old person would of course.

      I might add

      Our fish and chips were wrapped in yesterdays newspapers,
      We had outdoor “thunderbox” toilets (Composting toilets),
      We had biomass heaters (fireplaces) instead of airconditioners — Oh for the old days, love an open fire
      Almost all our clothes were made from natural fibres.
      We boiled stuff to sterilise instead of using chemical sterilisers
      We washed our clothes by hand or in a Copper and had a mechanical press to squeeze them dry rather than a machine (only when I was a small, small, boy)
      We swept and washed our floors clean instead of using an electrical vacuum cleaner.
      When our clothes got holes we darned them
      When our shoe soles came adrift we had a cobbler fix them

      The younguns need to know what we delivered, when I was born

      Computers far less powerful than your mobile phone took up a whole floor in a building
      There was no such thing as a personal computer (Came along in the 70s)
      No Internet (of course – no personal computers yet)
      Audio recordings were etched in wax not plastic (Shellac)
      Radios were built from thermionic valves and were the size of a microwave over (or bigger)
      TV was black and white only (monochrome) and were only affordable by the rich.
      We had not been to the moon, the first satellite Sputnik 1 was just 5 years before I was born, and the first person in space just 2 years before I was born
      No domestic aircon
      No microwave ovens
      No mobile phones (of any sort)

      But yes we didn’t have the ecowarrior busybodies back then, life was just naturally tougher because the machines weren’t invented (or if they were , they weren’t affordable) yet, so us Baby Boomers and our parents set out to make life easier, and to make the mechanical assisting devices affordable for everyone and we succeeded.

      I wish the generations after us, would just say “Thank you”

      Craig, you can go first.

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        shannon

        A couple of more “truths” to add to the list bobl…

        Us “lucky” baby boomers also….

        1) Have more 25-30yr old children …still living at home…

        2) Are caring for our elderly parents ..who are now living longer than any generation…

        3) Also operating “school runs”, and caring for our grandchildren, while both parents work.

        Perhaps us “selfish old people” should escape and try to have a “retirement”, instead…!!

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        • #
          bobl

          Three very relevant points

          Not to mention

          Our pension contributions were stolen from us and we are now being means tested for pensions that WE ALREADY PAID FOR.
          We are the highest taxed generation ever, going into the following
          We introduced welfare that the generations after us enjoy but didn’t exist when I was born
          We introduced free GP healthcare that everyone enjoys
          All generations after us got at least a grade 10 Education that not all BBs had the opportunity to have
          We operate the bank of mum and dad that never existed for us
          We spawned the wealthiest and least burdened generation ever (our children, The Millenials).

          Yep, we are so selfish.

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  • #

    No steak knives…They never give the steak knives any more, not even if you ring within 48 hours.

    Seriously, if we were to combine a Maunder-style temp dip with some serious volcanism – something which happened not many centuries back, eg Fuji VEI 5 in 1707, the rolling catastrophes in Cascadia at the time and the disastrous European winter of 1708-9 – you really would not want the job of wiping down grimy solar panels to eke out a dribble of energy so Christine Lagarde can keep up her winter tan. Maybe a job for Hansen?

    On top of the climate woes of the early 18th century, the Great Northern War (futile) and the War of Spanish succession (futile) were raging. Know any creepy globalists who wouldn’t mind some population thinning via a major war or two right now?

    The worst may not happen, but I sure hope these globalist deviants aren’t still in charge if it does.

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    TdeF

    The non science idea which startles is that any scientist familiar with equilibrium could suggest that something added to one side remains undisturbed. This is fundamental to all sciences. Equilibrium. You cannot add CO2 to one side of the equilibrium between water and air and expect it to stay there? 98% of all gasoes CO2 is dissolved in the ocean and it does not have a lid. So adding 50% to the 2% which is not in the ocean hardly matters. Equilibrium will fix it, if it needs fixing.

    As Professor Murry Selby stated, before he was fired for his honesty, there is no correlation between CO2 and temperature. There is also no correlation between CO2 and fossil fuels. In fact there is no science explanation for tiny CO2 heating the planet and that is universally agreed. Except James Hansen says we have to pay hundreds of trillions to control CO2. Even if that were possible and relevant and important, why would we do it?

    Man made Global Warming has left the building. Twenty years ago. James Hansen at 76 is feeling unloved. Irrelevant. Wrong.

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    Andrew

    Best proven way to reduce emissions by 6% in a year is to shrink the economy by -5.5%. (There tends to be a slight decrease in emissions intensity over time due to more efficient technology such as LEDs replacing lightbulbs.)

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    pat

    a must-read:

    22 Jul: Townhall: Paul Driessen: Tesla Battery, Subsidy and Sustainability Fantasies
    The first justification was that internal combustion engines polluted too much. But emissions steadily declined, and today’s cars emit about 3% of what their predecessors did. Then it was oil imports: electric vehicles (EVs) would reduce foreign dependency and balance of trade deficits. Bountiful oil and natural gas supplies from America’s hydraulic fracturing revolution finally eliminated that as an argument.

    Now the focus is on climate change. Every EV sale will help prevent assumed and asserted manmade temperature, climate and weather disasters, we’re told – even if their total sales represented less than 1% of all U.S. car and light truck sales in 2016 (Tesla sold 47,184 of the 17,557,955 vehicles sold nationwide last year), and plug-in EVs account for barely 0.015% of 1.4 billion vehicles on the road worldwide.

    In recent months, Tesla sales plunged to nearly zero in Hong Kong and Denmark, as huge government subsidies were eliminated. Now Tesla’s U.S. subsidies face extinction. Once its cumulative sales since 2009 reach 200,000 vehicles in the next few months, federal tax rebates will plunge from $7,500 per car to zero over an 18-month period. The same thing will happen to other companies if they reach 200,000…

    For those who can afford the entry fee, the ride is smooth indeed. In fact, a 2015 study found, the richest 20% of Americans received 90% of hundreds of millions in EV subsidies.

    Where were all the government “offices of environmental justice” when this was happening? How much do we have to subsidize our wealthiest families, to save us from manmade planetary disasters that exist only in Al Gore movies and alarmist computer models?…READ ALL
    https://townhall.com/columnists/pauldriessen/2017/07/22/tesla-battery-subsidy-and-sustainability-fantasies-n2358396

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    pat

    a little more CAGW insanity:

    no longer dying out, so the CAGW mob has turned against the polar bear – CHECK THE PHOTO:

    19 Jul: New Scientist: Polar bear attacks on people set to rise as climate changes
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23531354-400-polar-bear-attacks-on-people-set-to-rise-as-climate-changes/

    sounds like good news for their prey:

    20 Jul: Guardian: Damian Carrington: Hot dogs: rising heat makes it too hot for Africa’s wild dogs to hunt
    The endangered wild dogs are well adapted to high temperatures but a warming world means pup survival is plummeting, study shows
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/20/hot-dogs-rising-heat-makes-it-too-hot-for-africas-wild-dogs-to-hunt

    surely not the Aardvark!

    20 Jul: Daily Mail: Cecile Borkhataria: Climate change could spell the end of the aardvark: Researchers warn the animals cannot survive in dry soil
    Aardvarks may face population declines due to rising global temperatures
    They hide from heat inside burrows they dig and eat ants and termites at night
    But ants and termites need a certain amount of water in the soil to survive
    During a drought in the Kalahari, five out of six aardvarks died of starvation
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4711274/Climate-change-spell-end-aardvark.html

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  • #
    John Smith

    There is a Sierra Club office in my building.
    They have a sign that reads …

    “Climate Justice means commitment to Racial and Economic Justice”

    I avoid walking by after a meal.
    We may need to evolve a third hand to hold on to our wallets.

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    Rocky

    Make a 50 cm by 50 cm poster.

    Colour one square Green. Colour 1950 square Blue. 525 squares White. 24 Squares Orange.

    Not an exact replication but near enough.

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    Robert Rosicka

    Seems like they have everything covered from aardvarks to zealots .

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    pat

    17 Jul: Herald Sun: Defining power of climate change and ‘Al Gore’ effect
    by Terry McCrann
    CLIMATE change has become the defining question of our age — and indeed for that matter, of The Age, along with its northern sibling The Sydney Morning Herald.
    Pose the question “Do you believe in climate change?” and you define yourself as a moron. You might just as well go around asking “Do you believe in trees?”…
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/terry-mccrann/defining-power-of-climate-change-and-al-gore-effect/news-story/a886b4658e437fb8b6ac9bcf161767b7

    21 Jul: Fox News: Todd Starnes: Hey NPR: Take your global warming nonsense about kids and blow it out your F-150 tailpipe
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/07/21/hey-npr-take-your-global-warming-nonsense-about-kids-and-blow-it-out-your-f-150-tailpipe.html

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  • #
    TdeF

    In all the man made CO2 level panic in NASA’s own hockey stick, there are some observational truths with CO2 vs time and the Keeling curve graph.

    As even the CSIRO noted, with the extra CO2, more plants grow and trees grow but the graph of CO2 vs time is untouched.

    With the end of the 20 century man’s output of CO2 has never been greater, growing exponentially, but again no effect.

    In the manufacture of 350,000 windmills, the output of CO2 is massive, no effect on steady growth.

    In the manufacture of solar panels, the output of CO2 has a payback of years again with no effect.

    Around the world mankind has erected 350,000 windmills and billions of solar panels which have had zero effect on CO2.

    In Australia, the worst drought in 100 years is over and the place is green, a reduction in CO2 vastly greater than Weatherill could
    ever hope. No effect.

    We are told CO2 is being absorbed into the warming oceans in total contradiction of Henry’s law where warmer waters release CO2 but still no reduction in CO2.

    Despite the expenditure of $1.5Trillion a year, acidifying oceans, greening planet and a massive increase in output CO2, the growth of CO2 vs time appears to be linear and untouched.

    Could it be that Bill Nye is wrong, that the proposition that most of the growth in CO2 is man made is wrong?

    So where is there such a reserve of CO2 that nothing or the biosphere can do has any effect on steadily increasing CO2? Where on earth would all this CO2 come from? Where on earth is there a reservoir of CO2 so large containing 98% of all CO2 that warming is steadily increasing CO2?

    According to infallible ancient ice cores and NASA our CO2 levels have never happened before and there is no simple explanation.
    Or is there? Perhaps warming produces CO2? Or is that truth too inconvenient?

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    • #
      TdeF

      Or

      Spend trillions
      Build 350,000 windmills
      Install billions of solar panels
      Switch to electric cars
      Blow up coal power
      Make everything low CO2 eco friendly
      Ride a bike
      Go vegetarian
      Cripple your economies
      Devastate your manufacturing
      Suffer terrible loss of power in cold or heat
      Allow your people to die for your ‘science’

      and have zero effect on the planet.

      Who can resist?

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    pat

    comment in moderation re: 17 Jul: Herald Sun: Defining power of climate change and ‘Al Gore’ effect by Terry McCrann

    following is well worth reading, if only for the 137 comments at time of posting, especially the back-and-forth between Robin Guenier and James Dyke, etc. very funny. many of the comments require expanding:

    19 Jul: The Conversation: Inaction on climate change risks leaving future generations $530 trillion in debt
    by James Dyke, Lecturer in Sustainability Science, University of Southampton
    Disclosure statement
    James Dyke is as an editor of the EGU journal Earth System Dynamics. He served as the handling editor for the Hansen et al manuscript discussed in this article.
    http://theconversation.com/inaction-on-climate-change-risks-leaving-future-generations-530-trillion-in-debt-81134

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    pat

    just noting from the Tim Radford/Climate News Network piece (with zero comments btw) which jo linked to for this thread:

    Tim Radford, a founding editor of Climate News Network, worked for The Guardian for 32 years, for most of that time as science editor. He has been covering climate change since 1988.

    About our funders:
    The Climate News Network is supported by the Ashden Trust, the JJ Charitable Trust and the Mark Leonard Trust – three of the Sainsbury Family Charitable Trusts. This support assures the Network’s continuation while we seek the means to ensure its long-term sustainability.
    We have also had generous support from the Lush Charity Pot.

    ClimateNewsNetwork: About Us
    Welcome to The Climate News Network. It’s free, it’s objective, and it publishes a daily news story on climate and energy. It is run by four volunteers (details below), all veteran journalists who have covered climate change for many years for international newspapers and broadcasting organisations and are now freelancing.
    We use our contacts and experience to help both scientists and journalists to overcome the difficulties they face in telling people the facts about climate change. We offer scientists an unbiased way to report their research. For journalists, we provide reporting that spells out explicitly and authoritatively the context and the implications of the news.
    (aside from Radford, u have another former Guardian, two former BBCs, with one BBC-er also former Financial Times)
    http://climatenewsnetwork.net/about-us/

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    • #
      TdeF

      Amazing. In the climatenewsnetwork an article on the ‘hiatus’. Apparently climate ‘boffins’ have decided (waffle, waffle, complex, Artarctica, Southern Ocean) the warming simply has a fast mode and a slow mode and that we are just in the slow mode. Wow. That’s a relief. You can rest assured that rapid warming will resume any day now and yes, half a degree in an average is a disaster.

      Any resemblance between these journalistic adventures and actual science makes scientology and the Rapture and the Moonies seem factual.

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    Curious George

    New green jobs, and plenty of them: Currency Printers, Banknote Paper Manufacturers, and Green Ink Producers.

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    John F. Hultquist

    I wonder about that number – 535 trillions.
    My own calculation shows it to be 537.
    I’m never wrong.
    Hansen must have used a less precise slide-rule.

    http://www.sliderulemuseum.com/SR_Class/OS-ISRM_SlideRuleSeminar.pdf

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    • #

      Chiefio (03/02/11) again on the slide-rule:

      ‘Today I visited the bank.

      Normal every day kind of thing. But…

      I was in a hurry and had in my hand an object that I
      sat on the counter as I signed things. I’d not got it
      put back in its sleeve. It was a small thing, about 3
      inches in diameter (84 mm or 3 5/16 inches). I’d not
      thought a lot about it. I only had it with me as I’d
      been working a couple of minor problems (the error
      bands on cubits) and occasionally needed a bit of
      help on some of the numbers (like what IS 365/366 x
      6.02 compared to 6?)

      The clerk, toward the end of the transactions, asked
      me: What’s that?

      He looked and pointed.

      I looked.

      I felt old.

      It suddenly dawned on me that not only where these things
      uncommon and maybe even out of fashion, they were now
      unknown, even to this young man who dealt with numbers all
      day long and was at least a “20 something”.

      It was my “Concise” Circular Slide Rule number N-28:
      Concise Circular Slide Rule N-28 front …

      I let it soak in for a moment that I’d done the moral
      equivalent of showing up in Spats and with a vacuum tube
      radio… with my horse parked outside…

      Then I explained with as much positive manner as I could
      muster that it was an antique computing device called a
      “slide rule” and that in ancient times, like when I was
      in high school, all Engineers, Chemists, Physicists and
      in fact anyone in Science learned to use them. That we
      did all our problems on them as there were no calculators
      “back then”.

      He looked fairly interested, so I looked over my shoulder
      and saw there was no one waiting… And pressed on: “Here is
      how to multiply 2 x 2. Set this starting mark next to 2,
      now read off the result next to the other 2.” He said
      “And it even has Pi on it!” and I said “Yes, see, if we
      set the index at Pi, all the Pi x anything answers are
      all displayed at the same time, we just have to pick the
      one we want. Also, you could want a circle of, oh, 6
      inches, and just find 6, then look under it for the
      diameter…. and it doesnt’ need any batteries and it
      always works. Fits in my shirt pocket too…”

      Then I paused. Expecting the slightly forced smile of
      someone “tolerating” an elder… Accepting that some folks
      will always want their movies to be in Black and White but
      they look harmless enough… What I got was an enthusiastic:
      “Wow, that’s cool!”

      Rarely have I felt so happy in explaining something and
      never have I been so happy in a bank…

      This kid “got it” (“kid”, probably 22?) in about 20 seconds.
      No chargers, no batteries, plastic and waterproof, works in
      a hurricane or an earthquake power outage. Lets you SEE the
      problem not just a row of numbers on a display… I told him
      what search terms to use in Google to find one if he wanted
      one (redeeming my place in modern society ;-) and left the
      bank.’

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      • #
        John F. Hultquist

        Thanks for the reminder.
        Note in the comments there we go into the meanings of geek and nerd.

        Now my favorite thing is the Pulaski (tool).

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      • #
        ivan

        Humm, I thought I was the only one still using one of them (I also have a number 300) although I do prefer my Faber-Castell No 2/83N for daily work.

        30

        • #
          JoKaH

          I remember that one of my lecturers had a sly drool. He also had a pen stock in his top pocket.

          30

      • #
        Gary in Erko

        Yeh! Mechanised log tables roools.

        40

  • #
    TdeF

    That’s a journey down memory lane. We had computers by the time of the HP-35 but a computer which fitted in your pocket was something else. The HP-65 was a equally great revolution. Programmable.

    What is odd about computer predictions of the enormously complex chaotic system of thousands of world climates is that now climate journalists believe that computers and computer models are infallible. No real scientist believes that. A model is just a model until it is proven and can fully model the past which is known and can then be used maybe to predict the future. After thirty years of climate models, you have to say they cannot get even one parameter right, the global temperature.

    In fact the only model which seems to fit the last 2500 years well and even predicts the late 20th century rise and even the hiatus is the Weiss one with only two known cycles, the 230 year De Vries cycle and the 65 year AMO/PDO Ocean oscillation. With now thirty years of accurate data (bar active homogenization) everything else is busted.

    Still as Pat references, Climate Journalists who have spent the last 30 years and made their living from Global Warming are still supporting calculations which have been shown to be universally wrong. I suppose they have no choice, other than admitting their professional lives have been totally wasted. Hansen at 76 cannot let go. It must be hard to be so famously wrong. A sort of anti Einstein.

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      “Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I am not yet completely sure about the universe.” Albert Einstein

      30

    • #
      Another Ian

      TdeF

      “That’s a journey down memory lane. We had computers by the time of the HP-35″

      I was in that era!

      Punch cards (at least that taught me to type somewhat and I still thing the flat deck keyboard has something in wrist maintenance), waiting to see someone else using the card duplicating machine without getting their deck mangled so you could make a back up etc.

      And then waiting for your deck and printout to come back. Reflection was that the lines “They also serve who only stand and wait” had modern application in a student computer ready room.

      And I agree on the revolution HP wrought with those calculators.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I still have my HP 15C from my uni days….it still rocks….

        My Dad ( an economist ) still has his slide rule…

        10

  • #

    ‘hand over lots of dough or the polar bear gets it’

    ‘Al gore and di caprio would never dream of flying, so why should you?’

    ‘Co2 indulgences, get your lovely co2 indulgences here!’

    ‘Fly Virgin airways, free co2 indulgences with every flight’

    ’97% of climate change activists urge you to stop emitting co2 …so they don’t have to’

    Tonyb

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    Ruairi

    Alarmists are eager to spend,
    Multi trillions to no useful end,
    Based on science debunked,
    Not settled and junked,
    Which skeptics will never defend.

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    David Maddison

    One wonders how they come up with these numbers.

    That is around $89,000 per person on the planet.

    But only Western countries (Europe, USA, Canada, Australia, NZ) can afford this type of money (debt) and since the vast amount of people on the planet are of the Third World the burden on the civilised countries would be many times that. And even the existing debt levels in Western countries are becoming unmanageable.

    What they are trying to do is terraforming. It is possible in science fiction but not in real life now and likely not ever.

    The disconnect between reality and the anti-science Left is simply staggering.

    It all comes down to differences in brain architecture between Leftists and Conservatives as previously discussed. Leftists thrive on chaos and falsehood, Conservatives thrive on what is true and righteous.

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    David Maddison

    Except for the trolls, it is very pleasant on this blog being in the company of intelligent, educated, well-informed, pro-science, polite and useful people.

    Thank you for your company. There are few of you left, although hopefully Trump will stop the civilisational rot and turn things around in his country and influence the rest of the West to do so.

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      The things that still surprises me, are the bipolar attitudes that permeate society. It is either this, or that; right or wrong; totally true, or completely false; you either agree or disagree, but you are not allowed to be unsure; all questions can be answered in black or white, but never in shades of grey.

      You are not allowed to say, “sometimes”, for that word does not imply certainty with respect to time, and certainty is what we should be striving for in everything; and in those cases where uncertainty persists, the question must be re-framed in terms that can give a clear moral distinction.

      For what we need are clear an unambiguous rules that everybody can be judged by, and found to be virtuous, or wanting, and thereby find their just place in society.

      I, on the other hand say, “Bollocks to that – try getting out of the social hive, try making your own rules, within the fixed boundaries of ethics that you decide are your own, and which you will never change, nor deviate from, so that people know what you, as a self-contained individual, are prepared to stand up and fight for.”

      Become a spotted zebra, if that is what it takes.

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        el gordo

        Its hard to withdraw from the social hive of politically correct conformity when 99% of women are wilfully ignorant of the science and fall back on the maternal instinct for their world view.

        In a nuclear family the brainwashed children return home from school, the matriarch rules through the nagging gene (sharp sophisticated tongue and moral backbone) which leaves the hapless male in limbo.

        As I mentioned on the previous thread, when the old white guys die out they will take their Denialati culture with them.

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        joseph

        If all of the presidents leading up to Obama had had two black parents, Obama would have been the first white president.

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        mal

        When I was young everything seemed black and white, right or wrong. As I progressed through life , I realised that in man made soscieties, things get grey. By the time I retired black and white seemed a to be on the boundaries and everything else was now 50 shades of grey (not the book). However I was an engineer and the only things that stayed real were natural laws of the universe, not man made laws or customs. I developed my own moral standards which I have kept (do unto others) and try and understand the universe. All other fads and political movements are ephemeral, but can do a lot of damage whilst they exist.
        The cult of man made climate change is now a political/religious movement and nothing to do with science (seeking the truth and remaining sceptical).

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          Rereke Whakaaro

          That right, Mal.

          We have the laws of nature and the universe.

          The dark side makes up the political rules to suit themselves.

          The distinction is clear. Intellectual battle lines have been drawn, and the gauntlet cast down.

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        OriginalSteve

        I think people have had their powers of observation curtailed by smartphones and the manic, no space for any “slop” mad speed of life. People respond instantly to everything, but some things take time and don’t have an easy answer, but most people think now in 30 second bites, which is great if you’re ordering pizza or working in an auction house.

        Education has been dumbed down by design, so now we have people who don’t and can’t think deeply, so unless they can solve it in 30 seconds its not on…and needs to fit in the group think du jour…..

        Scary really.. our society is now very vulnerable by abuse by the elite who can herd the Jon thinking human cattle in any direction via the msm…..

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    Of course, if humans started to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 6% a year right now, the end of the century challenge would be to take 150 billion tonnes from the atmosphere.

    Hansen, like other alarmists, needs to learn a little geography. There are around 7500 million “humans”, spread among nearly 200 sovereign countries. Most of those countries have no intention of reducing their emissions as they have far more important priorities. To globally reduce emissions, Hansen needs to recognise my First Law of Climate Mitigation.

    To reduce global greenhouse gas emissions, the aggregate reduction in countries that reduce their emissions must be greater than the aggregate increase in emissions in all other countries.

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    Sean

    Jim Hanson does not belong on this poster. He is a proponent of nuclear power and doesn’t believe wind and solar will ever do the job. But his climate change alarmist cohorts were anti nuclear before they were anti carbon so… we see Germany and Japan replacing nuclear with wind and solar while expanding coal for base load capacity. Demand for energy is only reduced by dramatic increases in cost.

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      Sean

      Perhaps that’s the poster that sums up the absurdity of climate change action, replacing nuclear with wind and solar. Nothing from nothing is nothing (at great expense).

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        Graeme No.3

        Sean:

        And France planning to reduce its nuclear capacity and replace it with the output of wind turbines…in order to fight Climate Change!

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          Sean

          And don’t forget Canada (heavily invested in wind despite most power coming from hydroelectric and nuclear) and California (closes San Onofre and will close Diablo Canyon but gets 60% of electricity from cheap natural gas (thanks to fracking which is not allowed in the state.)

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      pat

      Sean -

      that is true. nuclear needs to be on the poster…in the background?

      because, of course, the wind/solar and anti-nuclear greenies always conveniently overlook that aspect of their “Godfather”.

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    Another Ian

    Willis E looks at Hansen

    “Well, Dr. James Hansen, the man who invented the global warming scam and our favorite failed serial doomcaster, recently addressed the cratering of a 30-year prediction he made in 1988.”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/07/22/autopsy-of-an-excuse/

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    pat

    VIDEO: 21 Jul: IceAgeNow: Cold sweeps Southern Hemisphere – Huge crop losses
    It was -8C in areas where average temperatures for this time of year are 17C.
    https://www.iceagenow.info/cold-sweeps-southern-hemisphere-huge-crop-losses-video/

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    pat

    on BBC World Service radio this morning; not bothering to locate the segment in this 32 minute-plus piece.
    a shaft where whale meat is kept refrigerated is melting because of CAGW…end of story.

    22 Jul: BBC Radio 4: From our own correspondent
    Claire Marshall gets a glimpse of the fast-disappearing Inupiat way of life in Alaska, and eats a glistening chunk of whale meat.

    Inupiat story you won’t hear or see on BBC:

    20 Jul: American Thinker: The story of the Inupiat and the Arctic oil reserve
    By Fritz Pettyjohn
    (Fritz Pettyjohn is a former Alaska state senator and House minority leader)
    Alaska’s Eskimo people, the Yupiks of western and southwestern Alaska and the Inupiats of the North Slope, have emphatically proven their ability to oversee responsible resource development. Taking their cue from Hammond’s Bristol Bay Borough, the Inupiats established the North Slope Borough in 1972 and have used their taxation of the oil industry to vastly improve the living conditions of its citizens.

    The Inupiat Arctic Slope Regional Corporation (ASRC) is the largest locally owned and operated business in Alaska, with 12,000 employees, almost 4,000 in Alaska. ASRC has paid $915 million in dividends to its 13,000 shareholders and distributed over $1 billion to other Native corporations. Seventy-five percent of its executives are Inupiat.

    The Yupik NANA Native Corporation selected federal lands with known lead and zinc deposits and, in partnership with Teck Resources, developed the Red Dog mine. In 2014 alone, Teck earned $143 million for NANA, $93.7 million of which was distributed to other Native corporations. Over half of the mine workers are NANA shareholders, many residing in small villages in the region.

    The Arctic Oil Reserve, also known as Area 1002 of the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve (ANWR), is the most promising oil prospect in North America…
    The northern section of ANWR in the Arctic Oil Reserve is indisputably the traditional home of the Inupiat. Its only occupants are the 239 Inupiats of Kaktovik. The Inupiats of the North Slope Borough favor the development of this field. It has the potential to fill the Trans Alaska Pipeline, currently running at 25% of capacity. All Alaskans would benefit from the responsible use of this barren and hostile land.

    But such development is opposed by the Gwich’in, an Athabaskan tribe that occupies the area far to the south of the Arctic Oil Reserve in tiny Arctic Village, population 152. They live a precarious subsistence lifestyle, aided by welfare and other government programs…

    Thanks to rapidly evolving technology, oil development in Alaska’s arctic requires a rather small footprint. The number of acres actually needed to drill and transport oil is miniscule…

    For the people of Alaska, especially its Natives, and in the national security interest of the United States, the Arctic Oil Reserve should be opened up. The American people need to hear the story of the capitalist Inupiat and to listen to them. If it’s anybody’s oil, it’s theirs.
    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/07/the_story_of_the_inupiat_and_the_arctic_oil_reserve.html

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    David Maddison

    The latest alteration of the language to suit the narrative seems to be the renaming of the Medieval Climate Optimum to the Medieval Warm Period because the implication of the first term is that warm temperatures are “optimum”.

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      David Maddison

      Of course, that is not an issue with Mann’s Hockey Stick since that inconvenient event was edited out.

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    pat

    this story always reminds me of my most devoted greenie friends and their diesel 4WDs:

    21 Jul: Local Germany: AFP: German car giants formed cartel to secretly collude on diesel emissions: report
    German carmakers Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, BMW and Daimler secretly worked together from the 1990s onwards on issues including polluting emissions from diesel vehicles, news magazine Der Spiegel reported Friday.
    Volkswagen, facing tens of billions of dollars in compensation and fines after admitting to manipulating diesel emissions in 2015, reported the cartel to German competition authorities in a letter seen by the weekly, as did Mercedes-Benz maker Daimler…READ ALL
    https://www.thelocal.de/20170721/german-car-giants-secretly-plotted-diesel-emissions

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    pat

    22 Jul: Financial Express India: IANS: Uncertainty over global climate fund may impact adaptation
    The disagreement between the US and the other 19 countries at the recent G20 summit at Hamburg has put a question mark over the sustainability of the Green Climate Fund (GCF).
    Now that the US has walked out of the Paris Climate Agreement, it is not clear if other developed countries will continue to give $100 billion to the GCF every year from 2020, as they had pledged to do way back in 2009. The $100 billion per year figure is unlikely to be reached any way…

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel made it clear during the G20 summit that her country would continue to meet its financing commitment. In the official communiqué released after the summit, these 19 countries reiterated “the importance of fulfilling the UNFCCC (United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change) commitment by developed countries in providing means of implementation including financial resources to assist developing countries with respect to both mitigation and adaptation actions in line with Paris outcomes”. The G20 Hamburg Climate and Energy Action Plan for Growth that was launched by these 19 countries at the summit also emphasised “the commitment by developed countries to the goal of mobilising jointly $100 billion per year by 2020, and their intention to continue this through 2025”.

    Despite this, there are question marks over the financial support that may be forthcoming from at least some other developed countries such as Australia, New Zealand and Japan…READ ALL
    http://www.financialexpress.com/world-news/uncertainty-over-global-climate-fund-may-impact-adaptation/774650/

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    Manfred

    Another modern myth, almost but not quite the proverbial size of the Jim Hanson’s Galactic Climageddon Fairy Tale, the UN’s greatest lie to date, is that the Earth is a small place, a global community, a mere spit or whistle from one jostling human to another. This myth along with the notion of cultural homogenization (when it suits the meme) helps promote the UN idea that that global administration is an easy, do-able and necessary act. Climatism is a central pivot for the Globocult. Other pivots include the UNEP, WHO, and ‘civil society’, the ‘third arm’ of the UN.

    Losing an “big” airliner with “lots of people” in the vastness of the Indian Ocean makes very bad press, highlighting as it does the immensity of a planet, 71% of which is encompassed by water, 95% or more of which is utterly unknown. Just for scale, it is stated that the planet Mars, our diminutive cousin has a surface area approximately equivalent to the land area of Earth.

    There are many points of push back against the eco-Marxist meme. The idea of a global “community” is another one. The conflation of the ‘real’ world with the immediacy of a ‘virtual’ world is a very modern perversion of perception.

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    crosspatch

    I believe it should be quite clear to everyone at this point that snake oil is the world’s primary source of renewable energy.

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    Kratoklastes

    $535 trillion? With a ‘T’?

    The dimbulbs who wrote that down – and the ‘journalist’ who reported it – are showing their innumeracy, or they’re measuring things in 2008 Zimbabwe dollars. (I keep a $100 trillion Zimbabwe note on my desk, as a constant reminder of what the political class always does to ‘legal tender’ stores of value).

    For the record: in 2014 global GDP in nominal (current dollar, non-PPP) terms was $78 trillion, give or take a few billion.

    So these parasites are claiming that environmental damage has a ‘bill’ that is (to a first-order approximation) 4.5 times global GDP? What absolute nonsense.

    Turning it into an ‘annuity-type’ path of expenditures with a present value of $535 trillion, using some fairly ‘vanilla’ assumptions about inflation and opportunity cost, gives a path that equates (again, roughly) to 6-7% of GDP a year in perpetuity. That is to say, the world would have to spend $5 trillion (which is – roughly – the entire GDP of Germany, plus half the GDP of Japan) every year, forever.

    Since all of the government componentry of GDP has to be funded by taxing the productive sector, that $5 trillion in ‘costs’ has to be borne by the 48% of GDP produced in the private sector. So it’s actually closer to 10-12% of private sector output, in perpetuity… at which point it’s trivial to call ‘bullscheisen’.

    48% as the private-sector share of GDP sounds too low, doesn’t it? But it’s correct: looking at it from income (as opposed to expenditure) data, the private-sector wage bill plus private-sector GOS, adds to less than half of GDP – and those are literally the only sources that can fund government spending).

    Where have I heard the whole “Unless we spend vast amounts, we will certainly face awful, expensive, future calamities” sort of nonsense before? (Apart from religious loonies carrying ‘The End is Nigh’ billboards – which is the prototype for all this millenarian nonsense).

    Answer: the last time a gigantic gravy-train hoax was invented to exploit the gullibility and innumeracy of the schlubs… viz., Y2K.

    That involved spending – roughly – 6% of GDP to remediate something that, in a sensible worst-case, was going to result in electronic doors maybe not opening for the first day or two of the “innumerate’s millennium” (i.e., the year 2000).

    For the record, I was right about that, too – Y2K was hogwash from go to whoa, with extremely limited exceptions that could be – and were – handled endogenously by private sector firms. Any competent coder could tell you that finding datestrings in legacy code was trivial, even back then.

    But it was an absolute hog’s banquet for the types of spiv who work for consulting companies and other bastions of innumerate charlatanry.

    [Two points: 1) This thread is already getting old and your comment may not be seen by very many readers; 2) Jo would probably prefer a little less charged language too. But I think you have something to say so I'm approving this as is.] AZ

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