JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Brexit hanging in the balance: UPDATE Leave Wins! Big gov loses :- )

Watching those results come in on Marketwatch,  and The Telegraph  map from @WSJeurope.

FRIDAY MORNING: Results are swinging both ways. The betting is shifting.  Pound falling. Remarkable rise in the spot gold price.  Telegraph reporting that Brexit is now the favourite outcome, but Marketwatch and others saying that results still to come are more likely to favour Remain from heavily populated areas in London.

UPDATED: Who cares what happens in the Australian election next week. This is brilliant news and a historic moment! In the modern era finally the creeping growth of Big-Government has been pegged back.  Fittingly, the spot price of gold melted up by $100 in hours and the Kitco site melted down. Pollsters and analysts were flummoxed. The UK is a nation divided with a patchwork of areas being strongly pro or against, and no easy trend across the nation. ABC radio here is painting BREXIT as a bit of an “emotional” decision over immigration, in contrast making out that the fear of a economic pain for leaving is “rational”. As if leaving the economic basket-case that is the EU would be bad for an economy which gave more money than it took. The UK is the world’s fifth biggest economy and survived, prospered and thrived for 400 years without an EU agreement. Instead of being economically bad, this will help the UK grow as it will be freer to trade and to rebuild the Anglosphere partnerships. ABC commentators are saying this will not be good for Australia. But why?  Closer ties to the UK again are a natural fit for Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the US. An EU loss is a Commonwealth win. Falling stocks in the EU reflect the sclerotic nature of the EU economy — this is a bad day for companies dependent on big-gov subsidies and rulings that prevent open competition.

The Gold Price

Though they try, the gold price is about the only currency that, in the long run, is outside big-government control. Gold  is an anti-cheating device.

...

 

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Brexit hanging in the balance: UPDATE Leave Wins! Big gov loses :- ), 9.2 out of 10 based on 83 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/hpnmuth

431 comments to Brexit hanging in the balance: UPDATE Leave Wins! Big gov loses :- )

  • #
    Peter C

    Go Brexit!

    313

    • #
      turnedoutnice

      We British can now junk IPCC phake physics and all those failed pro-EU politicians who have set out to destroy the UK economy using the fake CO2-AGW scare as justification to enrich themselves and their families.

      Come on Aussies: follow our lead; make the likes of Flannery walk the proverbial plank, perhaps followed by exile to Tassy to live on a diet of boiled mutton birds, using their oil in wick lamps.

      454

      • #
        Dennis

        Beware of Australian politicians who mention in passing a world with no borders, no sovereign borders (nations), world parliament etc.

        And joining the EU Emissions Trading Scheme, our tax monies sent to Europe.

        312

      • #
        llew jones

        UN: Brexit Means We Have to ‘Recalibrate’ Our Global Warming Plans.

        https://stream.org/un-brexit-means-recalibrate-global-warming-plans/

        30

      • #
        King Geo

        Spot on “turnedoutnice”.

        I don’t think it is going to “turn out nice” for all those shysters who have been selling the equivalent of “snake oil”, ie “fake CO2-AGW oil”, for the past few decades. Their “Judgement Day” is approaching, ie coinciding with the onset of the impending LIA next decade. I wait in anticipation for these shysters to be brought to task and shamed – quoting Gomer Pyle “SHAME SHAME SHAME!!!!”

        50

    • #

      Those seeking a safer sterling haven than Cool Ventures >b> can try here.

      [The usual minor hate mail from ambush site v.v.attsup -- Jo]

      00

    • #
      clive

      Yes indeed,the Brexit win has really ruffled the feathers of the “Elites”around the world.They are spitting “Fire and Damnation”from all over theEU.
      How sweet it is.
      Now all we have to do is boot out these”Lying,Do Nothing,Career Politicians”and life will be good.

      10

  • #
    Robert R

    Euro down over 400 points since 7:45 am this morning (AEST). The Pound down 1469 points (about 15 cents US) since then . The shorts are cleaning up.

    212

    • #
      TdeF

      We used to get a 20% swing in the $A at every election, until Keating floated the currency as his first act, trapping the money and biting the dealers. That is the problem when governments fix an exchange rate. These variations are pure gambling on an international scale. Nothing changes tomorrow.

      153

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Do not forget, though, that Keating’s float was a “dirty float”, and has remained so to the present day. The dealers still have their fun every month as people speculate on the next month’s interest rate.

        That “dirty float” has cost Australia’s exporters and import competitors at least 1% on their gross income ever since, perhaps a lot more.

        63

        • #
          TdeF

          Frankly, the banks take much more! Each way. You should check the buy sell rates. All those internet millions and a % or two to the banks for everything you buy. Then the credit card payments from 2 1/2% to 7%. You can always buy bank shares.

          62

          • #
            Rod Stuart

            If you follow “sector rotation”, the banks have had their days in the sun for a while. Over the last few years banks stocks have done well. Personally I doubt that will resume for some time.

            00

  • #

    This is the live update from the BBC. (at this link)

    It updates virtually by the second. Just keep refreshing the screen.

    So far Leave (1320AEST) is ahead by almost 800,000 votes.

    Tony.

    121

    • #

      BBC has predicted that Leave will win. Almost one million votes in front, (1355AEST)

      Leave is currently at 52%.

      Probably no way that Remain can get up from here.

      Tony.

      191

  • #
    Ross

    I think Leave might have it in the bag. ITV said a couple of hours ago there was 75% chance of Leave winning. A few Remain supporters seem to be waving the white flag.
    Recommend following the Breitbart site –great tweet screen shots and the comments are amusing. Also very up to date with data.

    91

  • #
    beowulf

    I have vastly more interest in the Brexit vote than in the sham election that is coming our way in a week or two. I say that as someone whose family ceased to be British about 200 years ago.

    I believe a Brexit ‘leave’ vote would ultimately have more impact on Australia’s (and the world’s??) destiny than the rabble in Canberra will have.

    It’s like watching a re-run of the Battle of Britain, 21st century style. Britain v the Rest. Cameron the Appeaser-in-Chief has always reminded me of Neville Chamberlain waving his scrap of paper and mouthing platitudes. What amazes me as an onlooker is that so many voters have been sucked in by the official line. They can’t all have their noses in the EU trough.

    Go Brexit indeed.

    402

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      In this sham election you are talking about, the choice is between responsible management by people who have offended their base, and a bunch of Marxists determined to destroy the capitalist system.

      Do not fail to comprehend this.

      105

      • #
        Lawrie

        Much as I choke on voting for a Turnbull government the alternative is beyond reason. Shorten thinks 50% renewables will somehow make us a strong economy and fails to see how his SA counterpart has ruined his state with the highest electricity prices in Australia.

        The ALP has given up on logic entirely. Sadly many of their followers have never come across the concept.

        50

    • #
      Manfred

      Superb comment beowulf. And to the UN eco-sycophants of NZ in general and the NZ MSM in particular and to Ms Helen Clarke (former NZ PM) at the UN Development Programme (UNDP) specially, you would kollectivly do well to sit up and pay attention. Democracy has more than spoken. It has shouted.

      102

  • #
    pat

    a different BBC live link to TonyfromOz – hilarious they should bring in Lohan! love the “near silence” at Remain Party, minutes after they were shouting their outrage over Farage statement. BREXIT has won.

    13.38 ‘Reform or die!’
    French ambassador to the US tweets…

    13.22 ‘Silence at Remain party’

    13.18 Remain react to Farage speech
    Shouts of “shame” & “that’s disgusting” at Remain party when Nigel Farage said Leave had won the #euref “without a shot being fired”

    13.18 Wales backs Brexit
    People in Wales have voted to leave the European Union despite a Remain win in Cardiff.

    13.12 Farage: Let this be UK independence day
    Nigel Farage says he hopes a UK exit from the EU brings down “this failed project” and leads to a Europe “of sovereign nation states” that trade and co-operate together.
    And let’s get rid of the flag, the anthem, Brussels and all that has gone wrong. Let June 23rd go down in our history as our independence day.”

    13.08 PIC: A new dawn? Leave is in the lead as the sun rises behind BBC Broadcasting House in London

    13.01 Freaky Friday: Lindsay Lohan is live tweeting the referendum…
    American actress Lindsay Lohan has surprised many by live tweeting the referendum results – enthusiastically backing Remain, despite a somewhat patchy knowledge of UK geography.
    Leave racks up the votes

    Among the latest areas to declare suppot for leaving the EU, include:
    • Portsmouth, Hampshire
    • Bedford, Bedfordshire
    • Braintree, Essex
    • Poole, Dorset
    • St Edmundsbury, Suffolk
    http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-36570120

    131

  • #
    tom0mason

    The fat-ar$es of the EU are now getting worried as no matter if the UK leaves or not they have shown that it is possible to leave.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    And now the BBC says they have! :)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    This alone will frighten all those in the great bureaucracy of Europe who thought all their cushy jobs were safe, as Greece heads for another payment default and Italy ramps up a GDP deficit of over 120% the confidence and finances of Europe will be surely tested and found (again) to be wanting.

    Next, UK and Scotland then Northern Ireland to split? As Scotland and N-Ireland unanimously voted to remain while the rest of Britain went for the exit.

    291

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Ireland might unite, but the Scots are living in a fool’s paradise. The EU may not even exist by that time. The Danes, Dutch, and Swedes want out. With Norway that makes a nice little Common Market, which won’t be bankrolling the EU. If the French start to leave that will be the end of the EU as Germany cannot pay for all the beggar nations, let alone Scotland.
      Nor will the Scots Nationalists fantasy of selling high priced wind electricity into England become reality. While this turmoil continues for the next 2 years then the Nationalists will be isolated and out of their depth and will lose authority, and I expect they fear that, and this threat of departure is another attempt to get more subsidies from England.

      91

  • #

    The Pound, Dollar, Euro, live coverage went dark 26 minutes ago! :-)

    101

  • #
    gnome

    What the pro-Brexit vote proves is that the voters understand business better than the academics. Business knows no politics. Academics know politics only, and the anti-Brexit scare stories about business depending on political union have failed.

    263

  • #
    pat

    UK Telegraph Live:

    Live: EU referendum results live: Brexit has won declares BBC, Sky News and ITV – as Nigel Farage celebrates ‘victory’
    4:45AM Southampton votes Leave

    4:44AM Birmingham votes LEAVE

    4:43AM Leave only need 46% of remaining votes to win

    4:38AM ITV News call Leave victory
    ITV News has now called a victory for Leave.
    There are just 77 areas to declare and Leave have swept up more than 13 million of the 16.8 million votes needed to win.

    4:34AM Nigel Farage: ‘Brexit without a single bullet being fired’
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-results-live-brexit-most-likely-outcome-says-leadi/

    81

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      The 4:34 quote from Nigel Farage is more than unfortunate, given what happened to Jo Cox.

      I know what he meant, “The battle was won without without engaging in conflict”, but that is not how a lot of people will interpret it.

      102

      • #
        TdeF

        He clearly meant German and French control of the British state, the whole fight in WW2 seventy years ago where tens of millions died for freedom and even the fight against the French under Napoleon, exactly 200 years ago. Of course he did not mean it for the case of Jo Cox.

        152

      • #
        Annie

        You and we know what he meant but the “offendotrons” have been in action, needless to say.

        80

  • #
    AndyG55

    Hopefully the beginning of the end of the un-elected totalitarian socialist beurocrats.

    294

  • #
    el gordo

    The Scots have little choice but to secede from Great Britain and join Europe as an independent state.

    83

    • #
      ROM

      If some of the other “Leave” groups get up and force a vote in some other EU member nations and there is a popularly based and rising tide in many current EU member countries against EU membership which will be heavily reinforced by the Brexit outcome, something that has now been acknowledged by the EU hierarchy, the Scots may find they don’t have much more than a rump of the EU left to join.

      322

      • #
        Raven

        Perhaps we’re watching the birth of a Euro-spring?

        121

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        ROM:

        The Scottish Nationalists have been living in a dream world. They thought that they could join the EU and benefit financially by exporting wind electricity to England at subsidised prices.
        Firstly, the EU may not survive long enough for them to join.
        Secondly, the EU may not want another beggar nation after one of its two cash cows leaves.
        Thirdly, the English may insist on buying at a low price or none at all.

        261

      • #
        PeterPetrum

        ROM – as an ex Scot who has lived in Oz for the last 50 years (in Sept this year) I am disappointed but not surprised at the Scottish vote. Scotland is almost 100% left wing with the Scottish Nats holding almost all the seats and pushing the Remain agenda very hard. However, as the Scot Nats are totally opposed to fracking, as the N. Sea oil is now almost non existent, solar panels are useless and wind turbines are next to useless, they would revert to the “Highland Clearances” in a few years if they cut themselves adrift from the rest of the UK.

        141

      • #
        Lawrie

        And with Britain out a nett loss of 45 billion Euros to the EU income which means they have even less to help struggling economies. Scotland cannot exist without England and even when it wanted to leave a few years back they still wanted England to pay. The Scots will not vote to leave now that the honeypot to the South has already left.

        41

    • #
      Ross

      el gordo

      There might not be a EU for the Scots to stay with if this Tweet sent out by Labour Leave is correct ( Labour Leave being leave supports from the UK Labour party)

      “Labour Leave
      17 hours ago.
      BREAKING NEWS: Holland announce they intend to table a motion in their Parliament to have a referendum to leave the EU if Brexit wins. They intend to do this the very next day. The president of Holland has also stated that Denmark, France and Sweden are looking to follow … interesting timing. The whole rotten edifice is coming apart, so where is the security in the EU now? Please let everyone know … we may now finally get a Common Market instead of USE if we leave. There are now countries waiting for us to leave ….Be strong, be European and leave the EU.”

      331

    • #

      Let’em go, slan leat, so-long!

      Most of Scotland the Brave left
      long ago, anyway…some came to Oz. )
      Three cheers for Brexit, a great step
      for liberty!

      270

      • #
        Lawrie

        They sent their useless union leaders here to ruin our economy as well. Doug Cameron comes to mind.

        80

    • #
      Dennis

      But does the EU membership have enough spare money to pay for Scotland to survive without UK tax money?

      110

    • #

      el gordo June 24, 2016 at 2:22 pm

      “The Scots have little choice but to secede from Great Britain and join Europe as an independent state.”

      The Scots (folk, not bureaucrats) declared recently they wished to have an overriding Monarchy, with such wealth to be never bribed. That same Monarchy has much interest, but little concern of the day to day political shenanigans. Such has always demonstrated deep personal integrity.
      Be that kind or dictatorial, this has always protected the mass of serfs from exploitation by the greedy! You must always create a royalty that can always prevail against the most greedy. A democratic constitution is nice when backed up by a single individual that can clean out all trash with only a smile, and a wink; only when needed!
      All the best! -will-

      70

    • #
      TdeF

      Yes but without the indirect billions from England and Wales, will the EU be so happy to still hand money to Scotland and Northern Ireland? This sort of generosity by Brussels buying allegiance with other people’s money is typical of the absolute control of Britain from afar by unknown pencil pushers in Brussels.

      160

    • #
      Manfred

      Wish ‘em well and send them on their way.
      Like their colonial efforts in the 1690′s in Panama, The Darien Scheme, proved Scotland’s stunning intellectual and economic triumph. They’re a kollectiv less now than they were then. Survival at the beneficence and beck and call of the EU is their fate. They should embrace it. /sarc

      90

    • #
      clive

      That will be really funny to watch them leave.Where oh where are they going to get their “Electricity from?Those “Unicorns”?
      Won’t be from their “Bird Mincers”

      00

  • #
    ROM

    I have just listened for a couple of minutes to the ABC, a somewhat rare event for me these days but my Wife had the radio going as I walked by

    They were interviewing some “expert” possibly from the financial or academic elite, on the the consequences of an increasingly likely [ at that point in the count ] majority “Leave” vote being the final outcome of the Brexit vote .

    The ABC expert’s predictions were all dire both for Britain, Australia and for Europe and the EU if the “Leave” vote won.

    It was just another “expert’s” usual and common “prediction” version of Murphy’s Law ; What can go wrong will go wrong.

    However it is wise to remember that Murphy’s Mother did say that “Murphy was an optimist”
    .

    My own reaction to the ABC’s expert was, he, like everybody else, hasn’t got a bloody clue as to what and where and how this will change many things in the EU, in Britain and in the world generally

    My second reaction when I think back on so many of the “Experts” predictions I have heard and read over the decades of my life is that every “expert” was invariably wrong or only got a small part of their predictions right.

    And thank the good lord and using “Cooks Constant”, 97% of all the expert predictions in almost every case are forgotten within a few hours at the most and are often forgotten within ten minutes of the “expert’s” prediction being made.

    In three years if Britain leaves the EU, everybody will be wondering what all the fuss was about as Europe and the EU, if it still exists as the EU, will all have changed and adapted to the 2016 elite claimed political and economic “disaster” that was supposedly to be if the Brexit vote says “Leave” .

    262

    • #
      James Murphy

      Speaking of the ABC, I noticed that in almost all, if not all of their online content about this referendum in the last 2-3 weeks, they only used pictures of “remain” posters, signs, and advertisements.

      They aren’t biased though…

      392

    • #
      Manfred

      It’s exactly and nauseatingly the same in NZ. The Progressive Leftist MSM betray themselves, forgetting and regretting that they are commentating on the will of the people, a democracy in full blown, unfettered action. They labour, bemoan and whinge, and their confirmation bias blows harder still as they vicariously experience separation anxiety with Brexit. The prophesise calamity, and endtimes, quite de rigueur given their usual burble on climate.

      For myself, loudly and joyously I proclaim the victory of the people over the kollectiv.

      And did those feet in ancient time,
      Walk upon Englands mountains green:
      And was the holy Lamb of God,
      On Englands pleasant pastures seen!

      And did the Countenance Divine,
      Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
      And was Jerusalem builded here,
      Among these dark Satanic Mills?

      Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
      Bring me my Arrows of desire:
      Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
      Bring me my Chariot of fire!

      I will not cease from Mental Fight,
      Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:
      Till we have built Jerusalem,
      In Englands green & pleasant Land

      281

      • #
        KinkyKeith

        Manfred

        Many years ago I took my wife and son to a show at Sydney Opera House:

        Last Night Of The Proms.

        I wasn’t sure I did the right thing then, was I living in the past or still in the real world.

        It’s still real.

        The people have won a part of the battle.

        KK

        70

        • #
          Manfred

          Yes KK, it’s still real. You only have to watch the young ‘uns line up and give it all they’ve got. It blerdy well endures.

          50

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Slight correction, Manfred:

        The first line of the last verse, should read “I will not cease from Mortal Fight”.

        I suspect your spelling checker is afraid of death.

        30

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Hi RW

          I am sure that it it was mental when I learnt it,

          That, of course, doesn’t counter your idea of mortal having been the original.

          KK

          00

    • #
      Rayzor

      An expert is a drip under pressure

      71

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        More specifically, Rayzor, an expert is a has been drip under pressure.

        70

        • #
          ROM

          As defined by one of my siblings many years ago

          An “Expert” is an ordinary man more than forty miles from home.

          If he has a briefcase under his arm he is a “Consultant”.

          You can work out the obvious implications of that definition for yourselves.

          90

          • #
            Manfred

            We’ve always referred to them as the ‘plastic briefcase men’. One can detect PVC against leather a mile away.

            40

      • #
        TdeF

        That’s good. I note you received a red thumb without a green thumb? That must be a first.

        30

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      I like that:

      Cook’s Constant.

      To Go with Reynolds Number (fluid flow) and Avogadro’s Number,

      KK

      50

      • #

        KinkyKeith June 24, 2016 at 9:09 pm

        “Go with Reynolds Number (fluid flow) and Avogadro’s Number, KK ”

        Avogadro was an optimist!, never quite that many, if you count! :-)
        All the best! -will-

        00

    • #
      clive

      I may be wrong here,but aren’t there 160 odd countries who were not stupid enough to to join the EU?
      Seems to me ,that would be enough countries to trade with,for the UK to survive,would it not?The “Elites”in Brussels are not amused.LOL

      10

  • #
    Ross

    All major UK news outlets have called it for Leave winning.

    Well done to Farange and all his supporters !!!

    I believe this will have major positive implications for sceptics in the AGW debate. The EU will become a shambles –there is already talk of other EU members just waiting for this result so they move in the same direction. With the EU being a huge IPCC supporter this helps us.
    It will give Trump a major lift –it will show US voters you can go against the establishment and win. We know where Trumps sits on AGW.

    PS I hope a lot of those financial wizards lost a major part of their shirt.

    250

  • #

    Best site I have found is http://www.telegraph.co.uk.
    “Remain camp … trailing Leave by more than 589,000 votes” at 4:24am.
    “Leave have swept up more than 13 million of the 16.8 million votes needed to win” at 4:38am.
    Looks like UEA might have finally got something right :-O
    Bit of a surprise to me that Wales is voting Brexit. When I lived in Wales a fair amount of my (very modest) income as a building designer and town planning consultant came from EU agricultural subsidies, and grants under the “less favoured area” programs. The farmers particularly liked funding that came direct and bypassed Westminster. For some funding it was a case of “them fellas in Brussels don’t ask for no receipts do they.”
    The Commissars have managed to alienate many of their supporters.

    100

  • #

    We did it !!!

    The economic indicators will bounce around whilst the speculations unwind but in few weeks it will all settle down again.

    I’m looking forward to the Uk re-establishing stronger links with you chaps and the rest of the Commonwealth

    581

    • #
      AndyG55

      As a Pom by birth, I give a great sigh of relief.

      A very good outcome. :-)

      432

    • #
      Annie

      Yippee!!! :) )

      220

    • #
      el gordo

      Congratulations are in order, but I’m not sure the financial turmoil will settle down in a couple of weeks.

      ‘Investors bid-up the yellow metal, seen as a haven, after it looked increasing likely that the UK would exit the EU in a move that was widely predicted to cause ructions in the financial markets and deal a powerful economic blow to Europe.’

      News View

      80

      • #

        The financial turmoil involving the euro will be longer lasting since the removal of our funds makes the EU insolvent.
        It is the pound which should find its new value in a few weeks or if it doesn’t the problem will be global financial problems.
        A strange world if the only thing holding it all together was our submission to EU rule.

        411

        • #
          el gordo

          Apart from the financial situation, does it mean Britain will stop building wind farms?

          60

          • #
            Ted O'Brien.

            It will certainly bring more careful assessment of values generally. “Green” technology will now have to justify itself in the short run, not just in the never never.

            101

            • #
              AndyG55

              “not just in the never never”

              But that is when it will become functional.. the never, never !!

              80

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Go England hope is not lost!

      One victorious battle does not win a war, don’t stop, don’t pause, don’t falter, don’t give the usurpers a chance to regroup.

      RWF, RISE WITHOUT FEAR!!!

      270

      • #
        James Bradley

        Yep Yonnie,

        Go England.

        That’s one leg of the trifecta up – number 2 will be our own elections and I pray for a minority government or hung parliament, but with a strong conservative senate nd number three is President Trump.

        320

        • #
          Egor TheOne

          Well said James and Yonniestone
          Many of us would be thinking along the same lines.

          The USA has ‘the Donald’.
          The UK has ‘the Nigel’.
          But here we have…Carbon Bill or Malcom the True B’lverBull.

          Even though, I must say that Malcom’s speech concerning Brexit made from (I think) Tasy, was blunt, to the point and completely without waffle…a pleasant surprise!

          If he spoke all the time as he did then,and dropped his CAGW true b’lverism, with a shift away from the left, then i think he would be worth voting for!

          I particularly liked how he gave ‘Tony the pontificator Jones’, a good ‘depontificating’ on his own propaganda show Q and BS.

          Are we to see more of this?
          Malcom a true Coalition leader? Or Malcom the ABC and left agenda appeaser?

          One thing for sure, we need a Donald or a Nigel here….who is to ultimately step up to the plate, I wonder?

          Definitely not old Carbon Bill yellen’ out ‘Austraya’ from the back of a ute!

          50

      • #
        PeterPetrum

        Yonnie – I know Scotland voted to Remain, but they still are part of the U.K. – “go Brits” please!

        60

    • #
      Robert R

      Yeah, lived and worked in Canary Wharf in London for a few years recently and was glad to get back to Oz though, after that, because Oz is in many ways more culturally Anglo than the experience I had there. Hopefully this can mean that Britain can move back in the direction of becoming more Anglo again itself.

      131

    • #
      Analitik

      Well done to the sensible majority of the UK for getting out and voting for the Brexit :)

      150

  • #
    ExWarmist

    So…

    When will the US Federal Reserve lift interest rates again?

    30

    • #
      ExWarmist

      And who will be next in line to leave the EU?

      110

      • #
        Dennis

        Switzerland has already notified the EU that they do not intend to proceed with full membership.

        France is now considering following Great Britain and there are indicators that there is a move underway in Germany too.

        101

      • #
        Dennis

        Switzerland has already notified the EU that they do not intend to proceed with full membership.

        France is now considering following Great Britain and there are indicators that there is a move underway in Germany too.

        70

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          The EU will not be able to survive in its current form, without France and Germany, now that Britain is out.

          Last one to leave, pays the waiter’s tip for the party.

          250

        • #

          Things fall apart, the goddam centre cannot hold,
          especially when it’s built on smoke. mirrors ‘n lies.

          * Naychur is dangerous.

          90

          • #

            beththeserf June 24, 2016 at 8:13 pm

            “Things fall apart, the goddam centre cannot hold, especially when it’s built on smoke. mirrors ‘n lies. * Naychur is dangerous.”

            Indeed, A child must learn to operate a one child powered bicycle, complete with tipping over, bruises, scabs, and hopefully some hugs and ‘poor sweet baby’. If your child cannot learn that, in addition to learning how to piss you off, within any microsecond; You mommy, daddy, have one very stupid offsprout.
            All the best! -will-

            40

      • #

        France, Italy and Netherlands want their referendum too, apparently. The beginning of the end for global government??? I sure as heck hope so!

        190

      • #
        Speedy

        It won’t be Greece, I’ll give you a strong tip! They are sucking on the tit as hard as they can, and they’re happy with the arrangement.

        What WOULD be interesting is how a country like Germany would leave? Would it collect all the Euros it has lent to the PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain)? If that happened then the Euro would be worth about the same as a Zimbabwean trillion dollar note.

        Cheers,

        Mike

        140

        • #
          King Geo

          PIGS love sucking on the tits that feed them – it comes so natural. I have no doubt that the EU will break up now. Yes pigs do fly. This “Socialist System”, like most of them preceding them, has been an abject failure.

          30

      • #
      • #
        Manfred

        Turkey is the hot fav. Lots of understandable grumbling there – Go Turkey!

        30

  • #
    AndyG55

    Over 1,000,000 ahead with 93% counted !

    Well done Brexit
    :-)

    372

    • #

      Andy, why on Earth did you get a red thumb for that?! It must be LOVE, Andy, those red thumbs will follow you anywhere (now watch me get one). Yay Brexit!!!

      :D

      221

      • #
        AndyG55

        As I’ve said before.

        I just add the thumbs up :-)

        All’s good if I’ve annoyed some hollow-minded git.. :-)

        82

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          Andy, dont fret! It is the Red Thumbs who most need to read this blog.

          80

          • #
            AndyG55

            That is why I love to see the red thumbs.

            I know they have read the post. :-)

            70

            • #
              Manfred

              Red thumbs have to be on anti-depressants. They would surely be a mandatory prescription when visiting the oracle of common sense, rational economics, intelligent and sustainable values, economic prosperity, cheap power, a reduction in winter deaths, Developing World prosperity, freedom of speech and thought, an absence of political correctness and a Fourth Estate, honest and true to their task?
              Yes. I think so.
              They therefore dally vacuously at their personal peril.

              40

              • #
                Manfred

                Come to think of it, the precautionary principle (OSH) should prevent them from visiting here at all.

                40

              • #
                AndyG55

                “should prevent them from visiting here at all.”

                They probably can’t escape.

                I know I am living rent free in at least a couple of mindless skulls. :-)

                At my beck and call, so to speak :-)

                50

      • #
        ianl8888

        Ah yes, the red thumb …

        Well, it says that “the pipal have spoken and got it wrong. They must be dismissed and a new pipal appointed immediately !”

        I mean , what’s the good of democracy if they get it wrong ?

        Hahahahaha … and so on :) :)

        50

        • #

          Oy, I can’t laugh at that, here in the USA. The “people” here elected Obama…twice. I only hope that the spirit of Brexit will help them see the light this time and elect Trump over Clinton and the Insane Left. (And even that will just be one battle won; we all have a long way to go, before the scientific revolution that must come out of my unprecedented discoveries comes into being. Sorry if that sounds arrogant or nutty, that’s just the way it is…as any of the great discoverers of old would say.)

          41

  • #
    Fang

    Could never understand that, Britain survived 800 years of democracy and very kindly spread it through out the globle! That they couldn’t be independent again, has always had me a bit confused!
    Good on you POMS! :) You’ll be breathing a huge sigh of relief in a year or so, saying “crap, that was close!”
    Ps: Us Aussies should be very glad to to Captain James Cook! As the French fleet were only a couple weeks behind him!!!!! ;)

    Fang

    290

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  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    All over Joe. Democracy works!!!!
    GeoffW

    150

  • #
    ScotsmaninUtah

    Goodbye to the EU :D

    190

  • #
    Rob

    While I am not generally an anglophile, my mental jukebox is playing, “Land of hope and glory”,
    as performed in Spike Milligan’s Australian radio show “Idiot Weekly”.

    50

    • #
      RoyFOMR

      Mine is the theme tune from Dads Army; on a continuous Loop (No that’s not the title but I refuse to let accusations of invoking Godwin’s Law spoil my Independence day celebrations)

      30

  • #
    toorightmate

    The people have spoken.
    What do you mean by saying “The people have spoken”?.
    I don’t think I have ever seen a more despondent mob than the bevy of BBC interviewers I have seen in the last 3 hours.
    Well done Great Britain.
    Now I am off to buy some pounds sterling and Australian shares as fast as I can.

    180

  • #
    Egor TheOne

    Bon Voyage to the Marxist Conglomerate !

    Well done Brexit !

    The beginning of the end to the ‘European Un-elected’.

    To the EU clown show > https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/31/0e/18/310e1837e4acad7670b055c691df392b.jpg

    172

  • #
    handjive

    Make no mistake, the message is loud & clear:

    Bloomberg, Figueres underline climate risks of Brexit

    “A UK vote to leave the European Union would hit efforts to tackle global warming, former New York mayor Mike Bloomberg and UN climate chief Christiana Figueres1 warned on Wednesday.”

    Europeans surrender control of climate initiative to Bloomberg

    EXCLUSIVE / Michael Bloomberg, the former mayor of New York, will be in the driving seat of a new global alliance of cities to tackle [Global Warming], despite the EU having pioneered the idea of coordinating mayors to fight global warming.

    150

    • #
      Raven

      . . despite the EU having pioneered the idea of coordinating mayors to fight global warming.

      Which of course is code for empowering fellow travelers and “infiltrating every level of government”.

      10

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    Watching Sky News and BBC World – the media commentators are completey stunned!!!These are the same fatcats who who stood to loose most from the Exit. Talk about biased !!!
    Geoff W

    191

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      The media don’t know who their audience is, and how relevant the information they report, will be.

      They just assume that everybody must be like them, and will share all of the same beliefs and prejudices, that they hold. Then they wonder how they got it wrong.

      Since I am nothing like any journalist I have met, I give them no credence, whatsoever. If I want to know something, I go to the source, and do my own research and analysis.

      140

      • #
        stan stendera

        Well said RW. I must speak. The genesis of democratic governance was the English Magna Carta. Now, once again the English have led the way to liberty. They have done a service to the world if only the world is astute enough to grasp the straw. Even if the world does not heed the lesson, all credit goes to the Brits for trying.

        20

  • #
    Mike Spilligan

    I’ve just returned (0600 here) from the local council offices in this East Midlands town where the counting has been going on since 1020 last night. We knew we’d win locally but kept an eye on the TV and it became clearer through the night that it would be a Brexit with many unexpected results going for the Leavers.
    Labour tried to get its regular voters to go for Remain – but they’ve been let down too many times in the recent past – so they followed the centrist line – really UKIP policies.
    I’m hoping to see a news headline saying: Cameron Humiliated.
    By the way – all the trudging the streets, holding meetings, having market stalls and no weekends off got the message through – and a bit of a boast; my forecast of 52% Leave v. 48% Remain of yesterday was almost spot on – actually 51.76 v. 48.24.

    240

  • #
    Greg Cavanagh

    I’ve had the Telegraph page open all day at work and reading their live feed.
    This has been a most exciting and significant day.
    Congrats to Britain, go you good thing…

    190

  • #
    Speedy

    A good evening all!

    Great news unless you are one of the parasitic population in Brussels and the self-opioniated “elite” who share the gravy train.

    Goodbye bloated bureaucracy, burdensome directives from unelected, unaccountable overlords. Britain can be Great again.

    Perhaps we should review our own governments? Give me three good reasons to stay in the UN, perhaps?

    Cheers,

    Speedy

    280

    • #
      Angry

      Now let’s get Australia out of the UN!!

      371

      • #
        AndyG55

        UNEXIT !!

        I’m voting YES already ! :-)

        251

        • #

          AndyG55 June 24, 2016 at 5:11 pm

          “UNEXIT !! I’m voting YES already ! :-)

          Rumor has it that NY state, and NY city, wish to convert that UN building to the symbolic NYC waste water treatment facility. Just like the Koreans did to that Japanese Palace in Seoul!
          All the best! -will-

          60

          • #
            AndyG55

            “wish to convert that UN building to the symbolic NYC waste water treatment facility.”

            What do you mean, convert ????

            That’s like saying “convert Mohammad to Ìŝŀâm” “

            101

            • #

              What do you mean, convert ????

              This means acquiring the well built structure. Then replacing internals with many pumps, pipes, and ponds, for treatment. While also reducing the stench in NYC. This is just what the Koreans did to that Palace in Seoul!

              00

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  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    David Dimbleby for BBC World is really pissed off!!
    Typical of the British media / establishment / elite!!!
    It’s not about you Mr Dimbleby!!!
    Get rid of him!!!
    Let’s have some unbiased commentary.
    GeoffW

    211

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      Angry

      The BBC (just like the ABC) should be immediately sold off !

      222

      • #
        Egor TheOne

        Another excellent idea ‘Angry’.

        Hopefully other European Nations will follow suit .

        We should have a referendum here as to whether the AlpgreensBC gets sold off and /or defunded.

        A big NO to propaganda outlets everywhere!

        The Marxist Infiltration has to be weeded out, not just the EU but the UN and all houses of propaganda !

        General rule : any advocates of the Global Warming/Climate change organizations need to be defunded and dismantled.

        Today’s Brexit is just the beginning to ‘We the People, have had enough’!

        202

      • #
        Analitik

        Yes! Then all the politically correct, oh&s obsessed management can get booted and they can bring back the old Top Gear team.

        10

    • #

      They might lose their EU funding.

      Of course the EU has never shied of sending money into non-member states to curry favour.
      Worked out really well for the Ukraine.

      200

    • #
      Manfred

      They’re precisely the same in NZ. It’s toxic eco-Marxism at its rabid best, doing what it does best, ignoring the will of the people.

      21

  • #
    Owen Morgan

    I went to bed, very depressed, with the news that “Remain” was reckoned to have won. I woke to the news that Brexit was victorious. I’ve never been to Australia, but I do know it’s a rather large place, with lots of wide things.

    None, I can assure you, wider than my smile right now. (Although I do acknowledge that Australia is a lot nicer to look at.)

    420

    • #

      I’m writing this so people can tick your comment twice! I’ve lived in England and Wales. Beautiful places, fantastic history. I’m Australian born and bred and here in Australia to remain now. I love Australia, my heart is here, but I do wish well for Britain and I have prayed and hoped that Britain would come through this – and vote to leave the EU.

      I am so pleased, my smile is nearly as wide as yours.

      Cheers to you! :D

      420

    • #
      AndyG55

      As a Pommie born and bred, I must admit to a few emotional tears of joy !!! :-)

      251

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Lucky you are not a Scot, then.

        60

        • #
          AndyG55

          A Scot is still a Pommie… they just don’t like to admit it. :-)

          50

          • #
            AndyG55

            ps.. The Scots were always anti-English.

            Of course they would vote to “remain”.

            60

            • #
              PeterPetrum

              Not so much anti-English as pro-French, à la Auld Alliance – but just the same, poor choice on behalf of my ex homeland. So glad the English and Welsh outnumbered them!

              100

              • #
                Radical Rodent

                I, a naturalised English, have told many “foreigners” that it is really not possible to offend an English person – and only one way to offend a Scot, Welsh or Irish person: call them English.

                It is good to see the people of the more extreme southern counties of England being as happy with the outcome as I am.

                p.s. anyone here from the more extreme western counties (i.e. Canada)?

                30

        • #
          Owen Morgan

          Born and bred in England, given an invincibly Welsh name, with fifty per cent Welsh and about thirty-six (well, something like that – I’m better at Roman emperors and seabirds than maths) per cent Scottish ancestry, I thought I understood British tribal geometry, until Nicola Sturgeon, leader of the Scottish National Party, announced yesterday that she wants a new vote on Scottish “independence”, on account of the Brexit result. She welcomes unelected rule from Brussels, in preference to elected rule from London. She rejects the decisive result of a referendum??? Oh, hang on: she did that before. Does she actually know what “independence” means?

          This is, of course, the standard behaviour of the European elite. Ignore the result of the vote and either change the rules, or keep the ordinary mortals voting until they finally get the message. That is not going to work, this time. The French and Dutch voted against treaties and they were ignored. We English and Welsh (and quite a few of my cousins in Scotland and Northern Ireland) haven’t just rejected a treaty, which somebody in Brussels can re-print with a different file identifier.

          We’re going to leave.

          Samson has entered the temple, Eurocrats.

          50

      • #
        Annie

        Ditto AndyG55, both of sadness when I first woke up to apparent bad news and then joy with the increasingly good news. The first rays of hope dawned with the Sunderland result.

        60

      • #
        Ron Cook

        Andy55

        DITTO again.

        R-COO- K+

        20

    • #

      “None, I can assure you, wider than my smile right now. (Although I do acknowledge that Australia is a lot nicer to look at.)”

      I have only been to England twice. I have only two dislikes! The beer, and that slice of beast that you can read a newspaper through, on what is called a “round”!
      Best of everything, but you aint getting the US back! -will-

      20

      • #
        AndyG55

        “but you aint getting the US back!”

        Seriously? What Pom would ever want the US back, anyway !! ;-)

        50

        • #
          Another Ian

          Andy

          Maybe Will has never got this reply from a Commonwealth-er on 4th of July

          Will. “What are you celebrating then”?

          Commonwealth-er. “The same thing you are – the Yanks leaving the Commonwealth”

          20

    • #
      RoyFOMR

      I almost went to bed just after the polls closed being somewhat depressed as initial reports were that the Remain camp was clearly going to take the day. I decided to stay up a little longer – just in case – so I switched on to BBC Radio 4, loaded up the Guardian Live web log and filled my high-wattage Kettle. (I don’t watch any live TV as I refuse to pay the BBC Tax)

      It wasn’t long before my mood began to lift and lift and lift. I finally gave in about 4am and went to bed with an untypical smile on my face!

      PS – Despite having a political viewpoint almost 180 degrees out of phase with these two organisation I do find them generally neutral when sticking to just reporting real news. I guess that the Guardian does still employ some genuine, old-time journalists!

      60

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    Apparently the ‘EU’ is supposed to be a brainchild of the nefarious Bilderberg group..

    30

  • #

    When this all settles down next Tuesday Wednesday, it will be the Euro that took the biggest hit against the whole economy! It is only the speculators in the ‘remain’ that have lost their diapers and now going ‘wa,wa’. Everyone else now has new opportunity to be well rewarded for skilful work and renewed personal integrity!! Be wary of those that only promise. Be accepting of those that have clearly demonstrated, that their own word, must be honored above all else!
    All the best! -will-

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    pat

    ***great to see CAGW sceptic, Piers Corbyn, on the right side:

    24 Jun: UK Times: Farage revels in an extraordinary win for ‘ordinary voter’
    by Lucy Fisher, Fariha Karim
    Mr Farage told The Times: “British politics will never be the same again. This is a victory for the little people, the ordinary people.”
    What next? “Well, quite a lot needs to happen quite quickly. The prime minister has to go; the chancellor has to go and we have to ensure that the government listens to the will of the people.”
    His supporters had begun to chant: “Nigel for prime minister!”…
    ***Piers Corbyn, a weather forecaster and the brother of the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, was one of the few who had decided early on that Leave were going to get it. “The polls don’t speak to the C and D (working-class) people, you see — that’s why they always get it wrong.”…
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/farage-revels-in-an-extraordinary-win-for-ordinary-voter-np7hftf27

    Mirror can’t resist having a dig at a “denier”:

    24 Jun: UK Mirror: Jane Lavender: Jeremy Corbyn’s brother wants Brexit and is a guest at a Leave EU party
    The Labour leader’s brother Piers has said he believes Brexit is “best for the country”
    Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn’s brother is celebrating at a Leave EU party as he reveals he voted for Brexit .
    Piers Corbyn spoke out as he was at a Leave Party in London…
    Piers Corbyn is known as a controversial weather forecaster who also denies climate change…
    As the owner of WeatherAction, Piers Corbyn claims to make accurate weather forecasts for up to a year in advance.
    The 68-year-old maverick is a fierce critic of other forecasters who back the theory of man-made global warming.
    He bases his weather predictions on the sun’s activity and claims earthquakes can be triggered by the sun’s actions. He says that gives him some success in predicting quakes.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyns-brother-wants-brexit-8270931

    24 Jun: Heat Street: Lukas Mikelonius: Jeremy Corbyn’s Brother Spent Polling Day Undermining Him, Loving Farage and The Sun
    Piers Corbyn, brother of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and a fellow die-hard left-winger, is having a blinder of a referendum day.
    The rebel Corbyn – a weather expert and firm Brexit backer – did sterling work for the Leave campaign, filling his timeline with tweets that directly accused his brother of lying about his views.
    One message from a Labour sceptic, which Piers retweeted to his 11,700 followers, said Jeremy “doesn’t believe a word he is saying”, and urged them to vote against him:
    Other messages saw him palling up with strange bed-fellows for a former squatters’ rights activist: The Sun and Nigel Farage.
    He showed his followers the tabloid’s “beautiful” front page, and also repeated a message from Ukip leader Farage – recently castigated by Jeremy for “racism” – urging them to “make history” with a leave vote…
    https://heatst.com/uk/jeremy-corbyns-brother-spent-polling-day-undermining-him-loving-farage-and-the-sun/

    71

    • #
      AndyG55

      “Piers Corbyn is known as a controversial weather forecaster who also denies climate change…”

      That would have to be one of the MOST RIDICULOUS STATEMENTS ever made by any reporter.

      192

      • #

        AndyG55 June 24, 2016 at 5:40 pm

        “Piers Corbyn is known as a controversial weather forecaster who also denies climate change…”

        “That would have to be one of the MOST RIDICULOUS STATEMENTS ever made by any reporter.”

        Andy,
        Please be somewhat circumspect. (I know haha, coming from -will-). An opportunity awaits! Read that as “Piers Corbyn, who ever that may be?, denies that Crony Climate Clowns have any clue whatsoever”! Opportunity awaits for those that can expand successful BRexit to the complete destruction of the Club of Rome!
        All the best! -will-

        52

        • #
          AndyG55

          Piers would probably know more than the whole lot of them put together, how climate changes. !! :-)

          92

        • #
          Geoffrey Williams

          Will why is this a ridiculous statement?
          Seems a reasonable enough to me; so Piers Corbyn denies ‘climate change’-I thought we all did.
          Note that we are talking about the climate change as in CAGW.
          GeoffW

          10

          • #

            Geoffrey Williams June 25, 2016 at 11:54 am

            “Will why is this a ridiculous statement? Seems a reasonable enough to me; so Piers Corbyn denies ‘climate change’-I thought we all did. Note that we are talking about the climate change as in CAGW. GeoffW

            We are but approving of religious nonsense of something political and immeasurable! Lovely pink Giraffes displaying there young off-sprouts! Wonderful!! Nothing of anything physical or scientific! You seem to be sucked into some nonsense of one global temperature. How can such have any meaning whatsoever?
            You think a young pink giraffe is nice? See here a baby rhinoceros, chomping on my fraser’s photinia bushes while momma over yonder is stomping front foot. That baby shits a brick that refuses to dissolve over three winters!
            All the best!b -will-

            00

  • #
    ROM

    Ross up at post #12.2 made an interesting comment re The Common Market , one that reminded me of the first stages of trying to unite western Europe after the end of WW2.

    Rather than myself going into detail I did some googling and dug up some long gone first tries at a united Europe history from going on close to three generations ago now beginning in 1957.

    And reading through this brief history article , there really is no reason why a similar economic block without the EU Brussels political strangle hold wouldn’t work once again for those nations that Exit the current EU.
    ——————
    Source; Infoplease ; European Economic Community

    [ quoted in full ]
    .

    European Economic Community (EEC), organization established (1958) by a treaty signed in 1957 by Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and West Germany (now Germany); it was known informally as the Common Market.

    The EEC was the most significant of the three treaty organizations that were consolidated in 1967 to form the European Community (EC; known since the ratification [1993] of the Maastricht treaty as the European Union).

    The EEC had as its aim the eventual economic union of its member nations, ultimately leading to political union.

    It worked for the free movement of labor and capital, the abolition of trusts and cartels, and the development of joint and reciprocal policies on labor, social welfare, agriculture, transport, and foreign trade.

    [ edit; Note that Britain was not a part of the EEC back in 1958 and this is where it gets interesting and the past could be a template for the British and other nations exiting the current EU. ]

    In 1958, Britain proposed that the Common Market be expanded into a transatlantic free-trade area.

    After the proposal was vetoed by France, Britain engineered the formation (1960) of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) and was joined by other European nations that did not belong to the Common Market.

    Beginning in 1973, EFTA and the EEC negotiated a series of agreements that would insure uniformity between the two organizations in many areas of economic policy, and by 1995, all but four of EFTA’s members had transferred their memberships from EFTA to the European Union.

    One of the first important accomplishments of the EEC was the establishment (1962) of common price levels for agricultural products.

    In 1968, internal tariffs (tariffs on trade between member nations) were eliminated and a common external tariff was fixed.
    For subsequent developments, see European Union.
    [end ]

    40

    • #
      ROM

      As the die has now been cast and any number of media opinion vultures will be picking over the various political, economic and associated rows of corpses, a bit more history re the EU and Britain makes for some background information.

      This time from the German on line newsmag, Spiegel online international

      And it is an interview with the Britians’ Iron Lady , Margaret Thatcher’s Biographer.
      ——————————
      Thatcher Biographer: How the Tories Turned Against the EU

      Britain’s Tories were once a pro-European party. They only shifted course in the later stages of Margaret Thatcher’s era as prime minister.
      The Iron Lady’s official biographer explains how erstwhile Europhiles became Euroskeptics.

      Interview transcript follows >>>>>>>

      60

  • #
    pat

    btw the news is terrific for pro-Brexit Donald Trump, who’s been in transit to Scotland, where the MSM have whipped up some “protesters” who, from memory, have placed Mexican flags around the perimeter of the Golf Course!

    24 Jun: UK Independent: Heather Saul: Brexit: Donald Trump to give press conference after arriving in Scotland
    The billionaire business magnate is due to touch down in the UK after Britons voted in favour of Brexit
    The presumptive Republican nominee is due to attend the reopening of his Trump Turnberry golf course after the results of the EU referendum were announced…
    He is expected to be met by a throng of anti-racism protesters as he opens the resort…
    His press conference could potentially be a jubilant one after his camp reiterated their support for Brexit two days before the referendum, with an aide claiming “America is here because of its own little Brexit”.
    In May, Mr Trump suggested the UK would be “better off” outside of the EU and claimed migration had been “horrible” for Europe…
    “I know Great Britain very well,” he told Fox News. “I know, you know, the country very well. I have a lot of investments there. I would say that they’re better off without it. But I want them to make their own decision.”
    The outspoken business magnate ***is just one of a few international political figures who have backed Brexit.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/brexit-donald-trump-to-give-press-conference-after-arriving-in-scotland-a7099426.html

    ***no doubt meant to write “IS ONE of a few international political figures who have backed Brexit”.

    51

    • #

      pat June 24, 2016 at 5:41 pm

      “btw the news is terrific for pro-Brexit Donald Trump, who’s been in transit to Scotland, where the MSM have whipped up some “protesters” who, from memory, have placed Mexican flags around the perimeter of the Golf Course!”

      HAHAHA! :-) :-( ;)

      71

  • #
    TdeF

    It could also be the end for the unsustainable renewables ripoffs, we hope. Maybe Britain can start fishing again? Making things like good cars? Controlling their own destiny and in charge of their own immigration and passing their own laws.

    Northern Island and Scotland have voted to stay in the EU, so that will be interesting. You would have to wonder why anyone would want to have unelected communists in Brussels writing 60% of Laws which affect your own people. This was not democracy but a plutocracy, something which was supposed to have vanished from Europe. Rule by the rich scheming classes without democractic representation and control. Maybe Brussels is a new form of absolute and non democratic government by totally unaccountable bureaucrats, a bureautocracy?

    It can only send a strong message to our bureaucrats in Canberra and the professional politicians that the people want to make the decisions. There is too much of communist Green Adam Bandt’s view, “tell them what they want to hear and when we get power, we do what we want”. Unfortunately it appears to be Turnbull’s view too. He has not even explained why we are having an election.

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    • #
      Peter C

      A good time for Northern Ireland to rejoin Southern Ireland to just become Ireland again. I would think that England might be happy to let them go now.

      80

      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        Don’t you just love it!!
        GeoffW

        50

      • #
        TdeF

        What a good idea. Or they could join Scotland, as historically there are many Scots and there has been a great exchange of people between these areas. You are only talking 20-30 miles to Scotland from Belfast, or to the Isle of Man. Or even a joining of Ireland, Northern Ireland and Scotland and they could all have the Euro, hang around in kilts and enjoy bagpipes and drinking. It would never work, but a great idea and maybe they might agree on the spelling of Whiskey. Or the EU could tell them.

        90

      • #
        Manfred

        Absolutely. And with a Protestant Blessing.

        31

    • #
      Annie

      Actually, Britain (England) produces some very good cars now but under Japanese labels! Nissan in Sunderland, Honda in Swindon and Toyota in Derbyshire. Please don’t forget Jaguar LandRover in Whitley, Coventry (parent company Tata) and the Mini Cooper, owned by BMW, in Cowley, Oxfordshire.

      11

      • #
        Annie

        The Nissan cars produced in Sunderland are excellent. Our own car was shipped to Australia on a RORO ship where every other vehicle was a brand new Nissan for export.

        31

        • #
          Annie

          Gosh! Now how did statements of fact earn a red thumb?! G’day red thumber….would you care to explain? “Please Explain”

          11

  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    Pollsters and analysts were flummoxed.

    That could be because the wrong pollsters and analysts were approached.

    I have noticed that the press tend to ask the wrong questions, of the wrong analysts, in order to get the answers they expect, or want to get, to support of the story they want to write.

    Journalists, instinctively “know” the reason for something, or the cause of some event, and then look for the evidence that supports what they already “know” to be, “the story”.

    Then they wonder how they managed to get it so wrong, when they had all this advice, and interviewed so many people, all of whom gave them the right answers to the wrong questions.

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      ianl8888

      Yep …

      It’s their unfathomed (as in too deep to measure) vanity.

      Hahahaha … and so on. This result is the first bit of real change I’ve seen for a decade. Political correctness, “elite” opinion, trampling on referenda, anti-democracy … all smashed :) :)

      50

      • #
        Another Ian

        Yes, a good start on that

        But only the opening round IMO

        And it might go more than 15

        41

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        el gordo

        Of course there is an elephant in the room, ‘a bit of an “emotional” decision over immigration…’ and the desire to take back control of UK sovereign borders.

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          Yonniestone

          Establishing total British law with NO exceptions would be a good idea, those that refuse to comply are jailed or deported, the latter preferable as they have been enough of a drain on the country and most have will dual citizenship.

          Send a message, Magna Carta was written 800 years ago to help develop a nation that most envied, if you want to come and devolve such a nation by 1000 years then stay in the s#$thole your inbred brethren created.

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        Manfred

        Confirmation bias. It’s a bit of a problem.

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    pat

    24 Jun: Breitbart: Joel B. Pollak: BREXIT: Britain votes with Trump, against Hillary, Obama
    Republican strategists had panned Trump’s decision to travel to the UK in the midst of campaign turmoil, and in the wake of his blistering attack on Hillary Clinton earlier this week.
    Now, however, it looks like a risk that paid off handsomely, in the currency of foreign policy credibility.
    Obama’s advice may have pushed some voters to “leave.” In April, he warned British voters they would be at the “back of the queue” in trade with the U.S. if they left the EU. Some, like Andrew Roberts, took offense, writing in the Wall Street Journal:
    ‘Surely—surely—this is an issue on which the British people, and they alone, have the right to decide, without the intervention of President Obama, who adopted his haughtiest professorial manner when lecturing us to stay in the EU, before making the naked threat that we would be sent “to the back of the queue” (i.e., the back of the line) in any future trade deals if we had the temerity to vote to leave.’…
    Hillary Clinton also backed a “remain” vote in April…
    He (Trump) reiterated that support last week, telling the Sunday Times: “I would personally be more inclined to leave, for a lot of reasons like having a lot less bureaucracy. … But I am not a British citizen. This is just my opinion.”…
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/06/23/brexit-britain-votes-trump-hillary-obama/

    24 Jun: AFR: James Chessell: Brexit: Why British voters stopped listening to the experts
    How did it come to this when every credible economic analysis claimed it would be a serious mistake to vote Leave? The short answer is working class voters in the north and midlands of England, large sections of Wales and outer London turned out in big numbers to do exactly that.
    The “Take Back Control” slogan employed so effectively by the official Vote Leave campaign was meant to appeal to a long-standing English sense of sovereignty. But it morphed into broader repudiation of disconnected Westminster elites…
    The Bank of England, Treasury, IMF as well as almost every world leader lined up to describe Brexit as an act of folly yet 17.4 million voters sided with Justice secretary and prominent Outer Michael Gove, who opined earlier this month that people “have had enough of experts”…
    US presidential hopeful Donald Trump, who touched down in Scotland on Friday to open a golf course, will be licking his lips in anticipation…
    Gove: “I think the people who see themselves as hurt by globalisation are seeking out populist movements,” he says. “You see that with Trump’s levels of support in the US, which I think is a bit similar to the Brexit support base and some of the independents that are apparently going to do well next week in Australia. They are all pretty similar. They’ve all got a bit of protectionist tinge and feeling that free borders and free movements have not helped them. They hear the elites saying it has helped the country but they don’t feel it themselves.”…
    Even senior Eurocrats​, a group unaccustomed to admitting their mistakes, concede the balance of power has shifted in favour of nation states…
    http://www.afr.com/news/world/europe/brexit-why-british-voters-stopped-listening-to-the-experts-20160623-gpqptc

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    Peter C

    The Brexit result could change politics throughout the western world and in fairly short order. Nigel and James and Boris and Dan and Michael and Martin * have won an extraordinary victory against huge entrenched interests by the force of ideas expressed in words only. The pen is truly mightier than the sword.

    Conservatives everywhere will take heart and press their cause. It will likely affect the result of our election here in Australia next week. I noticed that David Leyonhjelm found enough money to run an add on prime time TV. It was very good ad. If he gets re-elected it will show that people are voting for themselves. I do hope that is the case.

    * not hard but guesses for surnames accepted

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    Robdel

    What I would like to know is whether this will affect the UK’s energy policies. Does anybody know?

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      Unlikely for a long while! Get used to paying much more for what you must have! I have many fine pitchforks. For you my special friend, I offer excellent price for large lots!

      41

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    el gordo

    Peter Jennings, executive director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, likewise said it was a “serious blow to the UK’s standing as a global permanent five security power”.

    “In time we might have to think about reducing military connections with the UK … because there’s less interest for us to continue those connections.”

    He added it could strengthen Donald Trump’s campaign for the US presidency by signalling to voters that “you can poke the establishment in the eye”.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/brexit-australia-will-be-hit-as-world-will-become-more-fragmented-less-safe-say-experts-20160624-gpr9jb.html#ixzz4CU6ikXWT
    Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

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      Manfred

      Claptrap. The UK remains a part of NATO, which superseded the EU by decades. Peter Jennings clearly knows which side his bread is buttered on doesn’t he.

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    Jeremy Poynton

    Great God almighty – free again! We did it.

    [This comment was caught by the spam filter. Sorry] ED

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    Robert

    It looks as though PM Cameron will retire shortly, Boris for PM.

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    pat

    chock full of insults & lies about Trump, with a pic of what appears to be no more than a dozen protesters. shame on the BBC:

    24 Jun: BBC: Donald Trump in Scotland: ‘Brexit a great thing’
    US presidential hopeful Donald Trump has said it is a “great thing” that the people of the UK have “taken back their country” in voting to leave the EU.
    His comments came as he arrived at Trump Turnberry for the reopening of the refurbished Open venue golf resort…
    PIC: Dozens of people, with placards stating “No To Racism”, gathered outside the resort before Mr Trump arrived…
    “I think it’s a great thing that’s happened. It’s an amazing vote, very historic.
    “People are angry all over the world. They’re angry over borders, they’re angry over people coming into the country and taking over and nobody even knows who they are.
    “They’re angry about many, many things in the UK, the US and many other places. This will not be the last.”…
    Mr Trump said UK divisions “will heal” as “it is a great place”, adding: “I said this was going to happen and I think it is a great thing.
    “Basically, they took back their country. That’s a great thing.
    “I think we’re doing very well in the United States also, and it is essentially the same thing that is happening in the United States…
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-36606184

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      AndyG55

      “US presidential hopeful Donald Trump has said it is a “great thing” that the people of the UK have “taken back their country” in voting to leave the EU.”

      The more Trump says.. the more I like him !!

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      ianl8888

      … shame on the BBC

      Now you’re being silly, Pat. The BBC is utterly, irreversibly shameless. So is the ABC.

      111

  • #
    AndyG55

    June 24, 2016 at 7:57 pm · Reply

    YeeeHaw..

    Just read that the far-left Tory, Cameron, has resigned. SWEEEEEEEET !!

    Turnbull next !! :-)

    Let’s get rid of this leftist infiltration of reality.!!

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    • #
      AndyG55

      And Donald Trump in the USA !!! :-)

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      Yonniestone

      I’m suddenly inspired by Prince Vlad, impaling by turbine!

      Don’t tell me no one else is thinking this. :)

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      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        My favorite torure has always been to tie them up to a pole in the town square and let the people at them.

        If the people love them, they’ll be fed tea and buscuits; if they people don’t love them, well…

        20

  • #
  • #

    There’s an old political adage.

    Never trust the people!

    Look at the voter turnout at recent UK general elections.

    in the last 25 years, the percentage has been consistently lower than this turnout.

    Hmm! I wonder if Boris might be the next PM.

    Tony.

    Source – General election turnout 1945 – 2015

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    http://www.britannia.com/history/docs/kipling.html

    ‘You musn’t sell, delay, deny,
    A freeman’s right or liberty.
    It wakes the stubborn Englishry,
    We saw ‘em roused at Runnymede!

    Good to see the blood of the stubborn Englishry still runs through their descendants’ veins.

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    Roger

    Well we’ve done it !!! We’ve voted to restore Democracy and end the Rule of the EU over Britain!!

    It is a victory for the man(and woman)-in-the-street who understand democracy and freedom better than the majority of our politicians. Politicians who,even a few hours ago when the result was becoming clear, were blaming the voter for not understanding the message they had been spouting. Not one of them even began to understand that it was they, the ‘Remain’ politicians, who were totally out of touch with the everyday lives, dreams and fears of the people they are elected to represent. No, it was, in classic ‘Eurospeak’, the voters who were failing to vote how they had been told to vote.

    It’s a black eye for the unelected eurocrats who have lorded it over us for decades and it may well be the first step for other european nations to restore their own democracies. The signs are already showing that this may happen.

    But now the work starts in Britain and it seems to me that we have the opportunity, by setting an example, to begin to roll back the stifling spread of multinationals cosying up to politicians to get the legislation that works for them and stops competition from smaller firms; to begin to unpick the threads of the New World Order and those who have been using ‘Climate Change’ to seek an embryo unelected world government and have used ‘climate fear’ to try and force compliance upon sceptical and unwilling publics. To try and ensure, as Magna Carta did in Britain all those hundreds of years ago, that the democratic will of the people cannot be subjugated to the unelected elites in future, not just here but perhaps around the world through providing an example and a beacon of hope to other nations.

    I would welcome your views on a way we might all begin to move in this direction. I have been thinking about this and talking to people about it for several years. The Commonwealth has about a third of the world’s population, predominantly full democracies with systems of government based on our democratic models, we all have close links of family, friends and many traditions. The members have largely compatible legal systems and many shared cultural outlooks. If the Commonwealth were to begin to establish a global Free Trade area amongst those members who wanted to be part of it it could become the most powerful in the world.

    If the developed nations were encouraged to trade with each other and with the developing nations, and invest in and with them to help their economies develop it could be a major step towards lifting people out of poverty, providing adequate healthcare, adequate food and water and, through enshrining democracy through democratic countries working together, ensure that democracy prevails agaist the elites who would prefer an unelected global government.

    What do you think ?? Is is feasible ? Can we kick start something along those lines ….. or am I ‘just off with the fairies’ ??

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      Manfred

      I’ve always thought that the Commonwealth could be a backbone of development and trade. As a novel block in the UN World Order, it would have its work cut out for it. Why not, a rationale counterpoint to China, the EU and the US?

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      “If the developed nations were encouraged to trade with each other and with the developing nations, and invest in and with them to help their economies develop it could be a major step towards lifting people out of poverty, providing adequate healthcare, adequate food and water and, through enshrining democracy through democratic countries working together, ensure that democracy prevails agaist the elites who would prefer an unelected global government.”

      “What do you think ?? Is is feasible ? Can we kick start something along those lines ….. or am I ‘just off with the fairies’ ??”

      What absolute fantasy gobbledygook. This is not feasible, and indeed you are just off with the fairies!

      Getting anything to work, rather than just to happen, is monstrously difficult! Three or four beaver pair, can and do build a small dam, and live happily ever after. That 3 or 4 pair of beaver choose and select that small number of learned and hard working associates very very carefully as they must do to survive.
      Flip over to Earthlings 7,000,000,000 strong. Survival instinct for few, Plod along for most all. The self appointed elite must scam every other, in every way for huge advantage. Please God, show me any other way to do it?
      Are you Roger or whatever your name, truly stuck now?
      All the best! -will-

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    AndyG55

    A rough recording..

    But one of my favourite bands.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uScm7PbUyuw

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      AndyG55

      Hunt for further YouTube clips..

      And LISTEN LOUD !!!

      21

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      Glen Michel

      Is that “Grunter”there? In the sarong? Geez, Haven’t seen them since the Forster pub some years ago,Go Johnny Green. Let me go home whiskey- let me go out that door….

      31

      • #
        AndyG55

        Yep, and Demo on the drums. Haven’t seen Grunter for ages.

        Killer still plays regularly in a couple of bands. Annie O’Dee and the hotshots and other bands.

        20

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    doubtingdave

    Watching the fallout from the remain losers as they argue between themselves and play the blame game is hilarious , of course they only lost because they failed to communicate their message , and they are still in denial , desperately trying to talk up the possibility of staying in the EU as some kind of associate member ( neither in or out ), its over , other members over the next few years will vote for their Independence , i can’t wait for the day when i book my holidays in France or Greece and exchange my money for the franc and the drachma.

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    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Dave

      Today would be the one day I could possibly stomach the Drum or their abc news to see them squirm. Even then I couldn’t bother.

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  • #
    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Land Of Hope And Glory.

      A Nation of INDIVIDUALS has shown us how to do it after 70 years (not counting the Falklands)

      KK

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    el gordo

    Boris Johnson next UK PM according to the punters at Sportsbet.

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    doubtingdave

    Keith . I’ve been watching CNN , ABC , CNBC etc etc , i’m laughing so hard ive got stomach cramps , I’ve just watched Nicola Sturgeon on CNN and was reminded just how far left leaders like her have dragged the Scottish people , there is just no political or ideological balance up there anymore, she clearly see’s the EU as some kind of socialist utopian paradise and is completely blind to the fact that if Scotland leaves the UK , there simply will not be a socialist EU shangri-la for them to join , oooer Merkels on now , that’s too much for me i need a lie down .

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      Manfred

      Have a long cool alcoholic drink doubtingdave. Relax. Enjoy. It’s effing stupendous. Nothing the talking water melon air heads can say will change the facts of the moment. They blather more about themselves than anything else, to a vacuous MSM that have literally nowhere else to go. It’s truly hysterical.

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      Matty

      If the canny Communists in Holyrood try to use this to justify another bid for Scottish exit from UK Donald Trump should launch a bid for independence of his Turnberry Golf Club.
      Where is the Prime Minister when you need him ?

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      • #

        “Where is the Prime Minister when you need him ?”

        Perhaps in late 2017 the Queen, (or several) will appear but only when absolutely necessary!
        All the best! -will-

        02

    • #
      Another Ian

      Doubting Dave

      If you can find a copy of “Scotland Bloody Scotland” by The Baron of Ravenstone have a read.

      If not essential parts of his conclusion is that

      “Scotland as a country possesses the essential quality, the character and the history of nationhood, but Scotland’s people do not”

      And

      “If Finland, Norway, Faeroe and Iceland can be nations, there is only one reason why Scotland cannot be one: her own people”

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    Annie

    We’ve had a fizzy or two to celebrate and hung up some Union Flag bunting ( we had in England for the Queen’s Jubilee). I hope our guests tomorrow will be tolerant of our joie de vivre!

    81

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      Yonniestone

      So what if they aren’t Annie, falling for faux etiquette via insidious PC rules is what has allowed things to get so out of whack, showing pride in a nation or your heritage is not racist, elitist etc.. consider that they have the right to walk away as much as you have to display your pride, I know which most would support anyway.

      30

      • #
        Annie

        Thanks Yonnie. I think most are very pleased at the news and I don’t think anyone will take it amiss. I originally intended a ‘Christmas’ sort of decoration but Brexit has taken over!

        20

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    Richard

    This is undoubtedly great news for us Brits but unfortunately I’ve become far too cynical to be happy about this because I think this may have been planned from the start. The wealth and power elite have been rigging referendums in every corner of the planet for years and suddenly it is beyond them. As one article mentions, Brexit could be being used to mask Europe’s problems, pointing out that “EU policy makers can blame the economic bloc’s trouble on the Brexit threat”. I have come to suspect that Brexit may have deliberately been brought about by the globalists (as Monckton refers to them) as a way to cover up the coming global collapse which I believe is happening regardless of how we may have voted. It is interesting to me that some people in the Remain campaign have been insisting that if we leave the EU then it would be an extremely drastic move that is fraught with huge risks and is going to entail much turmoil and upheaval in all our lives. They are saying that the Pound could depreciate significantly and our economy could come to a grinding halt. Such scare-mongering prognostications are absurd to my mind and would only come to fruition if the people in power wanted it to happen. My suspicions are that the Brexit is a trap. The inevitable global economic collapse caused in large part by fractional reserve banking which has essentially buried all countries in the EU under a crippling mountain of debt I think will eventually be blamed on Brexit. The collapse being blamed on Brexit will have the added benefit of reversing anti-EU/globalist sentiment and making the job of creating a One World Government that much easier.

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      Gee Aye

      As you wrote

      Everyone I know at voting stations today were given pencils. Already videos on YouTube showing vote-counters erasing votes with rubbers and then ‘correcting’ them.

      Does anything happen in the world that is not a part of a controlled trajectory, by forces with ill intentions towards you way of thinking, heading to something that you don’t want?

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    • #

      “This is undoubtedly great news for us Brits but unfortunately I’ve become far too cynical to be happy about this because I think this may have been planned from the start.”

      Richard,
      Never attribute to conspiracy what is more likely an attribute of stupidity! Stupidity like entropy can only increase. Do expect all that can take advantage, to do just that. Why not get your own outfit and sell them popcorn? :-)
      All the best! -will-

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    Keith in Darwin

    Well played Britain…well played.

    41

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      Raven

      A nice little surprise present for the Queen’s 90th Birthday too.
      I’ll bet she was a #Brexit. ;)

      90

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    michael hart

    The screamists are still not giving up:

    “Pound at lowest levels since 1985″

    Gotta love that. The Euro did not fricking exist in 1985.

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    • #
      michael hart

      Perhaps I should add that maybe they would like to threaten us with the highest temperatures since 1985. Yawn.

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    Andrew McRae

    The youth are fuming. http://imgur.com/a/AHRUU

    52

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      Gee Aye

      Well they will be controlling things after you are dead

      37

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      Annie

      Good. We were out of the country and denied our vote re Maastrict. Don’t forget today’s white hairs were 1975′s young idealistic voters. We KNOW what the so-called common market led to.

      50

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      Ooh, two red thumbs. But you lot just love to be outraged, so that’s a good sign.
      Here, have some more, this time with a Pythonesque spin…
      http://imgur.com/gallery/1TCxMOV

      I find it comical that Remainers believe the UK government would be incapable of passing laws on anti-competitive businesses, pollution, consumer rights, or security intelligence sharing. I would think one of the first steps of any new UK leader towards appeasing the Remainers and legitimising the separation, given that it was such a close vote, is to domestically re-create some of the EU directives that were not particularly injurious to the economy or British values.

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    Reed Coray

    Queue up the song: “Happy Days Are Here Again.” Oops–that used to be, and maybe still is, the theme song of the democrat party in the US. Maybe the democrats should change the title to “UN-happy Days Are Here Again.”

    41

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    pat

    24 Jun: Donald J. Trump Statement Regarding British Referendum on E.U. Membership
    The people of the United Kingdom have exercised the sacred right of all free peoples. They have declared their independence from the European Union and have voted to reassert control over their own politics, borders and economy. A Trump Administration pledges to strengthen our ties with a free and independent Britain, deepening our bonds in commerce, culture and mutual defense. The whole world is more peaceful and stable when our two countries – and our two peoples – are united together, as they will be under a Trump Administration.

    Come November, the American people will have the chance to re-declare their independence. Americans will have a chance to vote for trade, immigration and foreign policies that put our citizens first. They will have the chance to reject today’s rule by the global elite, and to embrace real change that delivers a government of, by and for the people. I hope America is watching, it will soon be time to believe in America again.
    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-regarding-british-referendum-on-e.u.-membership

    when i saw the flooding online last nite, i thought goodie, the millennials in the south will never go out to vote cos their shoes would get wet:

    24 Jun: Breitbart: Chriss W. Street: BREXIT: Soros defeated by Act of God
    As Breitbart News predicted, severe flooding hammering the UK on Election Day depressed British turnout enough to assure a victory for the “Brexit” from the European Union…
    The worst of the day’s torrential rain storms and severe flooding hit hardest in Southeast England, which was expected to be the strongest area for the pro-remain vote…
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/24/brexit-soros-defeated-act-god/

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    Ceetee

    Wow, just Wow. We live in interesting times. Of the many things I could say I’ll say just this. Roughly a week before this vote I read or heard somewhere that Switzerland had withdrawn it’s application to join the EU. Can’t validate or cite (sorry). Does anyone know about this? Apologies if this has been mentioned, haven’t read the thread as I should do I know.

    [This comment was caught by the spam filter. Sorry] ED

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    Ceetee

    Is it true that days before this referendum the Swiss withdrew their application to join the EU? Just heard or read this somewhere.

    [This comment was caught by the spam filter. Sorry] ED

    00

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    doubtingdave

    What a bizarre night for ordinary working English and Scottish people , the Scots have been fighting for their freedom not necessarily from ordinary English people , we have all lived together worked together and yes loved and married each for many many years , we have the same perceived enemy in the London based social, business and political elite that rule us both , that the Scots claim to want their freedom from , and yet when they get the chance to give that elite a good kicking they get into bed with them , whilst turning their back on their natural allies in ordinary English folk , i think the Scots should be careful what they wish for , because one day they might be waking up in an independent Scotland were the only political choice they have is between some form of socialism or out and out Marxism , and that would be really sad .

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    Brexit Bonus Points:

    1. Steve Milloy tweets that Brexit is hurting the EU carbon price.

    2. Same person also tweets that UN-FCCC boss Christiana Figueres reckons that Brexit invalidates the Paris Agreement on climate change. EurActiv

    3. GBP and UK stocks sneezed but EU stocks are catching the cold, according to Matthew Lynn in The UK Spectator

    Less tangibly

    4. UK/BBC media darling Robert Llewellyn, the man behind the face of Kryten in Red Dwarf, tweets that “This country is literally tearing apart”. Following it up with “And the new leaders are the most extreme, unelected ultra right wing liars we’ve ever had to look at.” — I suspect that those are his audition pieces for national drama queen.

    5. German satirical new site Der Postillon published an article with a title that translates to: Penalty for Brexit: EU banishes Britons to a dismal, rain-soaked isle in the North Atlantic.

    6. German MEP Elmar Brok (CDU) is reported to have said that Brexit was a warning shot for the remaining 27 members of the EU. My response on Facebook was that it was the starter’s gun for the race to the exit because the last one left is lumbered with the bill. Well, at least some readers appreciated it. :-)

    7. Award for the most stupid statement in a news must go to Germany’s public broadcaster ARD which identified Nigel Farage as the winner of the Referendum in a late-morning bulletin today.

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    Joanne,
    The BRexit seems important! Your result in OZ up next; must be much more important! The English vote was a successful wake up call! Now all are very interested in how you AU folk can leverage that to reinforce the message, that the folk, not the banksters rule! You and David are in good position to still influence! I do not know, I fully back up your wisdom and strength in the near future. Much later I still wish to disagree with everyone, as is my nature. :-)
    All the best! -will-

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    • #

      Will, unfortunately there can be no success in this up coming election. On one side is a union controlled person who has been accused of rape by a former member of the same party which is very left wing with a number of communists. One the other side is an ego elitist who has been associated with Goldman Sachs and believes in the climate crap, wants a republic with him as president, and is for tearing apart the marriage act to please some of his left wing supporters. In the senate there is a Green rabble which will return with reduced numbers and an assortment of cross-benchers who are willing to accept union money. Even the National/Country party has supporters of agrarian socialism. We need a Lee Kuan Yew (Singapore) to lead us to prosperity.

      20

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    Ruairi

    That Leave the majority view,
    Just voted to leave the E.U.,
    Having opened their eyes,
    To a failed enterprise,
    Is a joy and a wish come true.

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    Richard Barnett

    Great job Brexit! Congratulations!
    Maybe there is hope for Texas?

    60

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    Sven

    It’s not the Big gov that lost, it’s the young who are the ones that have to live in this brave new world. It’s the elderly dictating the young the future the latter do not want to have
    18-24: 75% Remain (60-65 years left to live)
    25-49: 56% Remain (35-60)
    50-64: 44% Remain (20-35)
    65+: 39% Remain (0-15)

    [Sven, I don't know what caused this to get caught in moderation. But I can find nothing wrong with it so I'm approving it.] AZ

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      AndyG55

      The youngs can be thankful they have wiser heads to guide them. :-)

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      Roy Hogue

      Sven,

      Sorry to be a contrarian. But that’s what happens when you hold honest elections. The majority vote carries the day. And if my experience is any indicator, the old tend to make much wiser decisions than the young. And right now you need the wisdom and experience of those older people, not the ignorance and inexperience of the young.

      Every kid growing up thinks he knows more than his parents. And every college graduate thinks he’s qualified to sit behind that great big desk in the top floor corner office with the spectacular view. Yet nothing could be farther from the truth than what I just described. They don’t know more than their parents and they aren’t qualified for anything but entry level jobs.

      I don’t know how it will work out but I do know this, anything that goes wrong is now the fault of the English people, not Brussells. So you have a very good incentive to start working to get it right.

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        Rereke Whakaaro

        Don’t be critical of Sven. He is a product of his environment, as we all are. He is probably young enough to have never known a world without Big Government running everything, and the false sense of security that centralised control brings with it.

        It is informative to read the testiments of East Germans, regarding the angst they went through when the two Germany’s were reunited. They felt totally lost, without having Government rules for everything.

        It is the British children and grandchildren of that generation, who will now suffer the same sense of loss.

        Their European counterparts will also now realise that their sense of security is not all that it seemed to be.

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          Raven

          Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither.
          ~ Variously attributed to Benjamin Franklin.

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            pattoh

            “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want & deserve to get it good & hard .

            - H. L. Mencken

            The PC Leftards in EU Britain have come to know exactly what Mencken was alluding to, albeit slowly.

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          Roy Hogue

          It is the British children and grandchildren of that generation, who will now suffer the same sense of loss.

          RW,

          No doubt true. And I could say, so what? They still need to start on that journey and get their sovereignty and their country, not to mention their self respect back again.

          He who is lost and does not work to find his way back to a better state will simply stay lost. And while in the EU they were already lost as the wiser voters have probably long ago figured out. The Brits have taken a bold step toward being their own masters again.

          I’m now seeing Germany and France talking about the same move. I wish them good luck and a real chance to get out while the getting is good.

          20

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      KinkyKeith

      Sven

      Sad view of life.

      Brainwashed?

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        Sven

        No view of life. Facts…

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          KinkyKeith

          Sven

          I suspect that you are talking about media “facts” which give a very lopsided view of reality.

          When reality is what’s on your computer screen and that is the major “life experience” then things are a bit unreal.

          KK

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            Sven

            So, what exactly are you claiming – that the numbers of age distribution of vote are wrong? Any basis for that?

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              Greg Cavanagh

              The figures are not in dispute, this is:

              It’s the elderly dictating the young the future the latter do not want to have

              This is opinion = yours.

              And to be honest with yourself; every country, every government, every society = elderly in charge.

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          AndyG55

          Sorry , but who was that poll done by.? Gruniad?

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          ianl8888

          Evidence ?

          41

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          Dave

          Sven

          Your figures are correct but:
          Less than 15% of this informed 18-24 group came out and VOTED
          The remainder were on SOCIAL MEDIA, X-Box, Facebook or on Drugs!

          Don’t you understand this?

          The age of:

          I WANT TO WHINGE after I lose! Bunch of nutjobs!

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            Annie

            I heard a saying that goes along these lines:

            (To an 18-year-old) “You’d better do and say ‘such and such’ while you still know everything!”.

            I often think of our eldest grandson when I think about that! He still knows everything, or so he thinks…poor boy! He’s actually a fine young fellow and will do very well when he’s grown up a bit and lost some of the cocky, know-it-all attitude he is currently saddled with.

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      The young in Britain have been educated to formulate opinions before they have first developed understanding based on evidence and experience. I have two children. The elder, who voted for the first time, understands the other points of view. I had to correct the 15-year-old a couple of months ago when he read on the internet that a Leave vote would mean that he would be kicked out the country because his mother is not British born. Other young people believed that leaving the EU would mean they would never get a job.

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      AndrewWA

      The voting demographics will be far more complex than what is represented by these assumed age splits. Nobody voted in the UK was asked to indicate their age.

      These numbers are getting published based upon demographics of regions with self-serving assumptions about how individuals voted.

      About as meaningless as the press coverage in the UK which has been all about advocacy rather than news. Mainly the Remain side of the argument was covered in every fine detail.

      The vote has really upset the chattering class (aka Sloans in the UK) who believe that only their viewpoint represents truth. Old money and new money certainly present different issues but sometimes the same outcomes. So we see a big Remain vote around London, University Towns and London commute areas (filled with middle-upper class, well-educated types who are doing very well thankyou). Few of these people feel the impact of cheap migrant labour – but enjoy all of the benefits.

      Scotland and Nthn Ireland are driven by the entitlement philosophies of socialism and living off the Eurozone teat. I was surprised by the Leave votes in Wales and Cornwall.

      Watch what happens if Scotland goes its own way as nobody will be able to force England to buy their over-priced wind power.

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      tom0mason

      The elderly are not dictating to the young, they are using their own experiences to temper the way they think about events and then go out and vote.
      There is the key they went out and voted!

      The young (18+) had their chance to vote and assert their will, however the majority of the young failed to vote, many failed to register to vote.
      [paywalled]
      http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2016/06/24/brexit-demographic-divide-eu-referendum-results

      And here is more entertaining but worthless lefty, academic sophistry trying to argue that a small winning majority is not democracy –

      https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/brexit-democratic-failure-for-uk-by-kenneth-rogoff-2016-06

      Kenneth Rogoff a whining loser. Educated beyond his ability to reason.

      Contrast with http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/06/24/the-end-of-globalism/

      30

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        tom0mason

        The younger voter failed themselves!
        The vote was very close, so if more younger people voted the UK would still be in the EU. Thankfully the bars were still open, the phone and internet distractions were still working, etc., etc. If voting was that important for them they would have found time to vote.

        …As well, the young (and, really this debate is about them more than anyone else), need to be brought into the political process and encouraged to participate and give their view. There are just over six million 18-24 year olds and more than 11m people aged over 65, so even if all are mobilised (which is unlikely) younger people have to be persuaded to vote than over 65s if the Remain vote is to be secured…

        http://www.ftseglobalmarkets.com/news/does-the-uks-voting-demographics-support-brexit.html

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        Rereke Whakaaro

        I agree with your assessment of Professor Rogoff. He is an American academic viewing the international world from and American perspective, with all of the baggage that entails.

        Has Professor Rogoff even heard of Magna Carta, which for the United Kindom, is the equivalent of the American Constitution (although somewhat simpler)?

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          Rereke Whakaaro

          For interest sake, the generally accepted date for Magna Carta is 15 June 1215.

          Its principles are embodied in the American Constitution, not for any other reason than they make good sense.

          30

        • #

          Kenneth Rogoff, Professor of Economics and Public Policy at Harvard University and recipient of the 2011 Deutsche Bank Prize in Financial Economics, was the chief economist of the International Monetary Fund from 2001 to 2003.

          Like most Professors, they can only profess, they have never been taught how to do! :-)

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      AndyG55

      one stupid comment from Sven.. then he is gone, without the ability to argue his point.

      Well done Sven !! ;-)

      30

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        Rereke Whakaaro

        Well Andy, you must admit that we didn’t exactly play fair.

        He used feelings, and social support. Whereas we used facts and logic, and other weapons of mass discussion. But such is life.

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      AndyG55

      And your maths on the “years to live” is atrocious.

      I’m guessing you had a junior high modern education.. and failed.

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    Roy Hogue

    Just at a glance, the result seems to be that Britain is left about where it would have been if it never had joined the EU. Some who might have been winners now are probably losers and some who might have been losers now are probably winners. So what’s new? That’s life. Get used to it.

    And life will go on in spite of anything. Meanwhile, the English now have a chance to be what they were before the EU, SELF GOVERNING, which, believe it or not, is the most desirable situation they could possibly ask for. I hope they see the opportunity instead of all the complaints, pick it up and run with it because if they don’t, the complaints will overwhelm them into paralysis and they will become what the U.S. has become, hopelessly mired down in complaining.

    They will now have to learn to take responsibility for their actions and their words, something they have been partially shielded from for far too long.

    I hope they succeed.

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      Roy Hogue

      Now how do I get a CalifExit movement started?

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        Rod Stuart

        “If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.”
        Not you Roy, but California.
        If there was a Califexit, then California would become and East Germany.
        A more realistic in my opinion would be a Texit, perhaps along with New Mexico and Arizona.
        That is a perspective in ignorance of American politics, as viewed from the other side of the planet.

        20

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          Roy Hogue

          In the last few weeks my son has been talking on Facebook about leaving California. He sees the high rate of loss of both individuals and business and he likes it no more than I do. And it will be a shame if California is brought to its knees by being emptied of the people who were keeping the wheels turning. But there is no relief from Sacramento in sight.

          If I was in a position to leave California, Arizona and Texas would be first choice destinations.

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          Roy Hogue

          Your perspective doesn’t look all that ignorant.

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          Can we have Nevada too? For the rich in the USA to spend their money, and sell water to Calf. Can we Mommy can we, can we?

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    Lionell Griffith

    Could this be the much acclaimed and feared “tipping point”?

    It has everything to do with the political climate change and nothing to do with global climate (as in weather) change. Basically, top down, power and control does not work, will not work and never has worked. It cannot be sustained without destroying the thing controlled resulting in catastrophic collapse.

    The EU appears to me to be a basket case in which the basket has no bottom. Wealth, lives, plans, and dreams are put into the basket and the basket remains increasingly empty.

    The British people voted to return to what their ancestors created many hundreds of years ago. I wish them well on their rediscovered path to the future. At least now they have a chance for a future.

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    In Britain we are stunned. The bookies on polling day were offering 5-1 on Leave winning and they won. The vote in England and Wales crossed party boundaries. Many of the prosperous Tory Shires, especially around Oxfordshire voted to Remain, as did Scotland, and London, Manchester, Bristol and Cambridge. But the socialist strongholds across the North of England and in Wales, along with the majority of rural areas that are Conservative voted to Leave. It was the Metropolitan elites who lost. The socialists cannot accept the rejection and will now do everything they can to damage Britain’s future prosperity.

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      A lot of the socialists you mention, will use their EU Passports to move to France, or Spain, where they can remain safely on the teat they have always known.

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        The exit from the EU will not necessarily mean the removal of subsidies. Independence means that the British decide on their own policies. One change of direction in the UK is that the Government has declared it will stop funding activist policy organisations. Under the last Labour Government there would be daily policy proposals, with the activist organisation producing a report supporting the proposals. The EU is full of such organisations, climate being a notable area of policy.

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      Roy Hogue

      I cannot understand the socialist mindset. But perhaps this will upset their applecart badly enough to prompt some critical thinking. I really don’t know. All that we can be sure of right now is that getting out of the EU is a golden opportunity, enough Brits saw it and voted accordingly.

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        KinkyKeith

        Roy

        I think you are being a bit hopeful there.

        They can’t “think critically” about something they have never experienced.

        Most socialists in the West come from comfortable backgrounds and know so little about life that they believe that money comes from your parents or government social security.

        KK

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        Roy
        This will not upset the socialist mindset at all. For them failure is due to “a failure to get the message across“, or due to the opponents being too stupid to understand what is good for them. Already there are moves afoot to say that the result should be overturned. An example of this is already happening. In Britain it is possible to sign online petitions. If there are more than 100,000 votes the issue will be discussed in Parliament. (There were over 500,000 who signed a petition to “Block Donald J Trump from UK entry” earlier this year.) The latest, started a month ago, is

        EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum
        We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.

        Anybody who reads it would realize that the petition is redundant once voting has started. People were voting on the basis of winner being the side that won the most votes. To retrospectively change the rules to overturn the result is what one would expect in a 1970s Banana Republic, not something to be considered in a mature democracy. Yet now over 2.6 million people have signed it, most since the result was announced 40 hours ago.

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          Roy Hogue

          Sadly, you’re probably right. But where there’s hope you can still keep going. Without hope, you’re dead.

          00

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    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      You’ve been up all night haven’t you fen.
      It is a most significant day, I hope it becomes a national holiday.
      Grats to all of Britain.

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        fenbeagleblog

        A bit worn out now, as you say. What do we eat on our National Day off then?…. Pigeon pie?

        50

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          Greg Cavanagh

          Let them eat cake.

          So everyone eats cakes to remember the humility of the elite (NOT). Kinda like a passover in a way :)

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      Roy Hogue

      Fen,

      I hope that someday there will be a museum dedicated to displaying your work. You have the kind of talent that can nail the truth to the barn door every time.

      10

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        Roy Hogue

        Sorry! Maybe nailing something to the barn door is an Americanism not known to everyone. In this context it’s a metaphor standing for exposing the truth in a way that makes it obvious and hard to ignore.

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        Regardless of their motivation, by 1943 ‘barn’ entered the science lexicon and never left. But big in this case means small. The cross-section of the uranium nucleus, that ‘barn’ unit, is 10^−28/m2. Your barn door is way, way to small for even one fenbeagle illustration! The Americanism however is as good as locking the damn thing, after whoever stole your horse! :-)

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          Roy Hogue

          Unfortunately exposing something can only be done after it exists, not before. Or did you not notice that little detail?

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  • #
    Another Ian

    Along the way

    “Brexit: Soros Defeated by Act of God”

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/24/brexit-soros-defeated-act-god/

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    pattoh

    The former Goldman Sachs head of the ECB, Mario Draghi, will be reprising the “little Dutch Boy” on the Nether Regions Mezzanine ( Belgium ) playing the Dyke Hole Finger
    Sticker In Chief to save the Euro for the NWO Masters.

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    Raven

    I’m not full bottle on the financial aspects and where Britain fits into the greater EU picture. It’s been said that Britain is a net contributor and the EU maintains a large debt, so how will this pan out?

    Add to this that a number of other disgruntled EU countries might well achieve a similar referendum outcome then it’s going to look like a game of musical chairs in reverse . . more chairs than players.
    I don’t see how that could work.

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    John in NZ

    I want to try to explain why the so-called experts should have expected a win for the Leave vote.

    The polls before the election were consistently neck and neck but there was a significant undecided group. The experts kept saying they expected the undecided to vote for Remain as this was the safe vote. They expected a similar pattern to the Scottish vote about leaving the UK which was a vote for the status quo.

    This attitude was predictably wrong.

    There are two types of “undecided voter.” There are those who are genuinely undecided. On polling day, it it is unlikely these will bother voting. The other type is not really undecided. They have decided which way they will vote but do not want to tell any one their choice.

    Why not? Because people don’t want to be criticised. Even though the abuse was going both ways, the ones who are most likely to pretend they are undecided are the ones who are most likely to be abused. And that was the Leavers. The message coming from the experts was that Leavers were predominantly poor, uninformed, poorly educated, bigotted people who were wrongly worried about migrants and ignorant about the economy. Leavers were condescendingly portrayed as thick racists. The genuine concerns over not only migrants, but sovereignty, EU debt and the economic viability of the EU were ignored.

    A Labour voter who wants to vote Leave but does not want to be seen as going against the party line can simply pretend to be undecided.

    The so-called experts knew the undecided vote would be critical. They should have known a majority of the so-called undecided were more likely to be Leavers.

    Given that the pre-election polls were so close, the undecided vote should push the result towards the Leave winning. Bad weather and the over confidence of the Remainers was also going to favour the Leave winning.

    The good news is that the experts will also be proved wrong about the economic consequences of leaving. The reality is that the EU economic model is unsustainable. The UK will be better off out in the long run.

    It is better to be the first rat to leave a sinking ship than to be stuck in the hold, gorging yourself on grain but unaware the ship is going down.

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    Dennis

    It is timely to reflect on now deceased Canadian Billionaire Maurice Strong, and his comrades, who engineered the harnessing of natural Earth Cycles to attack capitalism based on man-made global warming and to profit from the [deception] along the way.

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    TdeF

    Paul Kelly front page on the Australian is not a happy camper. In fact he has called the BREXIT decision racist like a true leftie. In his words, a ‘victory for Xenophobia’? What happened to democracy, lost in the EU? What happened to taxation without representation? Where did Magna Carta go? Who elected Paul Kelly? Why is not wanting unknown unelected foreign bureaucrats running and taxing your country Xenophobia?

    Most importantly, as time passes, Tony Abbott and his clear strong leadership is looking to have set the right directions for people around the world. Strong borders, free trade, lower taxation, less Union control and less bureaucracy and strong leadership and most importantly dead against socialism posing as environmentalism or Climate Science, crap as he called it.

    What ever happens to Malcolm’s Greens, it is becoming very clear that they cannot take the rest of the Liberals with them, the ‘deluded conservatives’ they scorn. Also the obvious backroom deal with the Greens is falling apart as both Di Natalie and Turnbull are being forced to swear publicly they will not swap preferences although open tickets are nearly as damaging.

    Never have the major parties been more unpopular and if Turnbull gets back in, it will be with no control of the senate at all and a vastly reduced majority. Thanks, Malcolm. In his desperation Turnbull is even having to be a slightly critical of the ABC’s Tony Jones for pushing ALP policies instead of Malcolm’s Green policies. Soon we will know. Can we exit from Turnbull’s Greens?

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      Yonniestone

      The Paul Kelly’s of the world are a big reason our young are so politically confused, I will be called a racist/xenophobe tomorrow for simply walking in public carrying the Australian flag.

      With the sentiments of every patriotic Australian Paul Kelly GET STUFFED!

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      Dennis

      It is interesting that former Liberal Prime Minister John Howard commented that a Yes vote would benefit the UK.

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      TdeF,
      I think you nailed it. This also is why “The Donald” is popular with the USpeons! notgood.
      In the US, USpeons love to express immediate feelings. “Your mother wears army boots! The PC call this ‘racist’, or now Xenophobic (whatever that may be)! Most all in this US with money to hire; do not care of color, creed, religion, national origin, or sexual preference! Let’s see how well you work today! I will pay you more than fair wage, in cash, early tomorrow morning, if you show up, sober, and willing to do another days work! :-)
      All the best! -will-

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        Remember! Unlike UKpeons, and Euro-peons, USpeons are armed! Quite willing to stop and rescue the poor piglet that slipped into the water filled ditch! Mommy pig stands aside and winks with a grin! :-)

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    toorightmate

    I generally like and respect Paul Kelly.
    On this one, he got it wrong and is not losing very gracefully. He’s got a fair few mates.

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    Raven

    From the “didn’t tale long” department:

    Disgruntled ‘Remainers’ have already got a petition up on the UK Govt. site.

    EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum

    We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.

    See . . this is what you do when the democratic outcome isn’t what you wanted . . keep petitioning till it succumbs.

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      Raven

      Oooops . . . typo.
      From the “didn’t take long” department:

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      Andrew McRae

      It looks bad in context, because one wonders why the socialists haven’t proposed this rule for UK plebiscites until now, just after BrExit has been voted instead of before.

      Take it out of context and it still does not seem reasonable. If you think the only democratic requirement for victory is that more people support an option than don’t, then 50% is not enough to meet that criteria in a non-mandatory voting system. Their requested thresholds would pass changes on just 45% support. A rule of 2/3 majority vote with 75% turnout will have a better chance of representing at least 50% of the population under the (unlikely) assumption that non-voters are split evenly in their biases between the two options.

      For significant changes, of which Brexit is just one example, I would have thought getting majority popular support would be important to a democracy like the UK.

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        Raven

        Yes, points taken Andrew.
        In Australia, BrExit would have never got up . . and we distinguish between a plebiscite and a referendum, too.

        We have a compulsory preferential voting system; not ‘first past the post’ and here, a plebiscite isn’t binding on the Government, but merely a gauge.
        A referendum (which is binding) would have to achieve a majority of voters as well as a majority of states.
        Needless to say, very few referendums clear both those hurdles.

        Still and all, wanting to change the rules after the event has a whiff of Karl et al about.
        Alternatively we could endorse the Cook et al approach and not worry about anyone who didn’t bother to get out of bed to vote. ;)

        Perhaps BrExit dodged a bullet because the socialists failed to fire it.

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          The electoral process here in Australia is one which causes the rest of the World to shake its head in disbelief.

          When I started off at the site I contribute at, it was March 2008. The US was in its looooong campaign which saw President Obama elected.

          As you all know, the US has elections every two years, for the complete House of Reps and one third of The Senate, and the campaign and election takes forever.

          In 2010, we had our Federal election, you know that infamous ‘There will be no Carbon tax’ election, and it was over in a short time. At the same time in the U.S. they were in the lead up to their own 2010 Midterm.

          When I mentioned our election here in Oz to the site’s owner, he was dumbfounded that it was done in so short a time from when it was called to when the election was over and done with. Each thing I told him left him astounded, and he wanted me to write something explaining it all.

          I was skeptical that it would even get read, but it’s probably been one of the better visited Posts at our site.

          In the U.S. they just cannot understand that (a) voting is compulsory, (b) you can get fined for not voting, (c) we have preferential voting (common response is ‘what the hell is that’) (d) the PM is not directly elected, (e) that Liberal here in Oz actually equates to Conservative side of politics, and probably the most important, (d) that it all actually works.

          Here’s the link to that Post, if any of you are at all interested.

          The Australian Electoral Process Explained

          Tony.

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            Dennis

            It is wrong that because of our preferential voting system candidates who attract the most primary votes can lose while candidates with even as little a couple of per cent primary vote can win on preferences from other candidates.

            2013 examples Senator Jacqui Lambie who attracted about 6 per cent primary vote in Tasmania and Ricky Muir of Victoria who attracted about 1.5 per cent primary vote. Another concern is that all of the states, regardless of population, have the same number of senators.

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              Raven

              Yes, I saw Jacqui Lambie interviewed on ‘their’ ABC. She reckoned that 12 Senators from Tasmania was ridiculous and that 6 would do.

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                AndyG55

                For once I agree with Lambsfry.!!

                Newcastle, Maitland, Central coast region has a larger population than Tasmania !!

                Tasmania is significantly over represented in the Senate..

                and is a “taker” rather than a “supplier”

                30

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      Reed Coray

      Didn’t Stalin say something to the effect that “Who votes is not important; who counts the votes is?” Like Al Gore in Florida and other democrat beliefs, the maxim is keep recounting till the democrats get the outcome they want. Makes me sick.

      Conventional wisdom says that if a vote is close, there should be a recount. A good friend of mine argued the opposite. If the vote is close, a recount is a bad idea. His argument, and I believe a good one, is that because a close vote establishes the condition that changing just a few votes can change the election results, there is added incentive to “play fast an loose with the recount.” Maybe the original vote counting was in error; but the most likely vote count to be “fair” is the original vote count.

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    • #

      This petition for a second Referendum has a ‘snowflakes’ chance of getting up.

      Imagine then the response of possibly applying this to any election result ….. eg, you can’t have just one law for just one result, as it should be applied then to all results, and a case could be made, especially by ambulance chasers some sections of the legal fraternity.

      Anyway, as I mentioned above, showing this link, the turnout for this vote was 72%, which is higher than for any Poll in the UK in the last 25 years. If they try to make it 60% based around a 72% turnout, they’ll be having Referanda forever on this subject, first from one side, and if they get up, then the other side.

      It’s a no brainer really. It’ll get polite responses, but no serious action.

      Tony.

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        Andrew McRae

        The knee-jerk reaction of the closet communists on Friday afternoon was one of disbelief and… that other ‘D’ word. One of them commented out loud there would surely be no chance that the UK Government would actually take any notice of the referendum result because the voter turnout was so very low at only 72%.
        Uninvited but undaunted, I chimed in that this was an amazingly good turnout considering they didn’t have to vote.
        The reply was basically an admission that their expectations of turnout might have been too high.

        Once again I found when arguing against a communist it would have been nice to have the relevant facts in immediate possession as they will so often contradict the communist, but I could not recall any specific facts in the heat of the moment. Only with later research did I find that, by contrast, the USA has not achieved a presidential election turnout greater than 72% since the year 1900.
        Tony’s reference to the UK polling history is just another fact pointing in the same direction.
        Note also that most people can’t remember events that happened before they were five years old.

        The BrExit result last week was at least as representative of the population as any general election in either UK or USA for as far back as most of the youthful Remainer snarks can remember, and so it is no less legitimate.

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        toorightmate

        The could also have a petition for “Let’s not have another referendum”.
        The “Let’s not have one” would defeat the “Let’s have another one” by 1 million votes.

        00

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      Roy Hogue

      And I believe that (and very unfortunately) they have two years to decide to go back to the EU if they should change their minds.

      00

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        Roy Hogue

        So welcome to the world where nothing is ever final except death and taxes. Those endure forever.

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    el gordo

    President Xi is a pragmatic individual who thinks it would have been better to stay, he doesn’t have a good grasp of the situation.

    http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/what-china-thinks-about-brexit/

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    • #
      el gordo

      Populist movements are a threat to the new world order.

      ‘The Brexit debate made few waves among the Asian public. However, the prospect of Britain’s departure from the European bloc, China’s biggest trading partner, unsettled the leaders of its Asian partners.

      ‘China is not alone in fearing the Brexit will precipitate a breakup of the EU, where other governments are also facing challenges from populist movements agitating against membership of the bloc.’

      China Daily

      10

      • #
        AndyG55

        If the “bloc” was actually a democratically elected entity, rather than a bunch of un-elected faceless socialist totalitarian bureaucrats, the EU might have had a chance.

        This is why the UN will also eventually FALL !

        Too many elitists wanting everything their own way.

        31

  • #
    pat

    24 Jun: Bloomberg: Mark Niquette: They Got It Wrong: Swarms of Global Chatterers Misread Brexit
    Those who predicted badly include the wealthy and well-read
    Among those who were wrong about Brexit before the vote:
    Politicians…
    Bettors…

    The Chattering Class
    The London-based ***Political Studies Association surveyed members, journalists, academics and pollsters from May 24 to June 2. Every group got it wrong.
    Overall, 87 percent of respondents said Britain was more likely to stay in the EU, 5 percent said it was likely to leave, and 8 percent said both sides had an exactly equal chance.
    The predicted probability of Britain voting to leave the EU: academics, 38 percent; pollsters, 33 percent; journalists, 32 percent; other, 38 percent; mean, 38 percent.
    “Any ‘expert’ who makes a prediction at this stage, and within the context of the current volatility of politics in the U.K. and abroad, ain’t no expert!” one respondent said, according to a June 3 report…

    Historians…
    Financiers…
    Political Clairvoyants…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-06-24/they-got-it-wrong-swarms-of-global-chatterers-misread-brexit

    ***2 Jun: Political Studies Association: Leading academics, journalists and pollsters predict EU Referendum results
    The UK Political Studies Association today (3 June) released the results of its survey of expert predictions of the 2016 EU referendum. The full report, Expert Predictions of the 2016 EU Referendum: a survey by Will Jennings and Stephen Fisher on behalf of the U.K. Political Studies Association, is available to download here. (LINK)
    The survey was distributed to members of the Association as well as a large number of survey researchers from major polling companies in Britain and to journalists from the print and broadcast media. We asked respondents to share their predictions of the outcome, the probability of Britain voting leaving the EU, the final vote shares for each side, and the level of turnout.
    •An overwhelming majority of our experts thought the UK is more likely to vote to stay in the EU than to vote to leave. 87% of our respondents said that Remain is more likely to win. Just 5% thought that Leave is more likely to triumph. The remaining 8% were of the view that the two sides have an equal chance of winning…
    The results of this survey should be interpreted in light of the poor forecasting performance of a similar expert survey of predictions for the 2015 general election. Then, as now, the views of the experts were broadly in line with prevailing expectations of the time. In the run up to the 2015 general election the experts were expecting a close result on votes and seats between the Conservatives and Labour, with 94% expecting a hung parliament…
    The survey elicited responses from 496 academics, 13 pollsters, 33 journalists and 54 people from other backgrounds. The fieldwork was conducted between 24th May and 2nd June 2016.
    https://www.psa.ac.uk/media/press-releases/leading-academics-journalists-and-pollsters-predict-eu-referendum-results

    nonetheless, the MSM has been parading the same old pundits, chattering classes, financiers, etc since BREXIT won!

    00

  • #
    pat

    EU hanging in the balance!

    MSM is making much of Scotland wanting another referendum on Independence. however, does Scotland – especially if oil prices remain low – really want Independence, only to continue under the dictatorship of the EU, which might very well fall apart?

    24 Jun: UK Express: Jonathan Owen: END OF THE EU? Germany warns FIVE more countries could leave Europe after Brexit
    France, the Netherlands, Austria, Finland and Hungary could leave…
    Details of Berlin’s concerns were outlined in a finance ministry strategy document.
    Angela Merkel’s country faces having to pay an extra £2.44billion a year to the annual EU budget once Britain has left.
    Fears for the future of the EU have prompted German government officials to propose that Britain is offered “constructive exit negotiations”.
    The aim is of making the UK an “associated partner country” of the EU, according to German newspaper Die Welt today…
    Hungarian Prime Minister, Viktor Orban, warned that Europe needs to change its ways.
    “Brussels must hear the voice of the people, this is the biggest lesson from this decision,” he told public radio…
    Another critic of the EU, the leader of Poland’s ruling party, said that the UK referendum result shows the need for reform of the EU…
    Tensions are rising across the EU, with Denmark, France, Italy, the Netherlands, and Sweden all facing demands for referendums over Europe…
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/683224/END-OF-THE-EU-Germany-France-Austria-Hungary-Finland-Netherlands-Europe-Brexit

    10

    • #
      Raven

      Another critic of the EU, the leader of Poland’s ruling party, said that the UK referendum result shows the need for reform of the EU…

      Or it could indicate that the ‘reform’ ship has sailed.
      I have a feeling the cascading consequences for the now 27 state EU are far from known.

      00

  • #
    pat

    Raven – unbelievable? not really.

    24 Jun: UK Daily Mail: Matt Dathan: Could Britain face a second EU referendum already? MPs could be forced to debate staging another vote after petition tops 100,000 target within hours of Brexit result
    The prospect of holding a second EU referendum could be debated in Parliament in coming weeks after a petition topped the 100,000 target within hours of the result being declared.
    It was so popular that the Government petition website hosting the motion crashed this morning…
    Although the decision is not legally binding on MPs, it would be an act of political suicide for any group to attempt to override it and order a second referendum after months of hard-fought campaigning.
    Any petition that receives more than 100,000 signatures within six months must be considered for debate by MPs in Parliament.
    Any petition that attracts more than 10,000 in the time period requires a response from the Government…
    The petition reflects the anger among the 16.1million voters who backed staying in the EU – particularly young voters in London and across Scotland, who overwhelmingly backed Remain.
    Three in four 18-24-year-olds voted for Remain in the referendum and more than half (56 per cent) of 25-49-year-olds backing the pro-EU option, according to initial estimates of the vote breakdown by YouGov…
    COMMENT: Mailbiter: Just went over ***500k. This is not over by a long chalk.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658421/Could-Britain-face-second-EU-referendum-MPs-forced-debate-staging-vote-petition-tops-100-000-target-hours-Brexit-result.html

    ***i haven’t bothered to check the figure.

    10

    • #
      Raven

      It was so popular that the Government petition website hosting the motion crashed this morning…

      Oh, it didn’t crash.
      David Cameron just tripped over the power cord on his way out. ;)

      20

  • #
    Another Ian

    Comment at

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/06/23/uea-brexit-remain-vote-probability-zero/

    ” billpatt
    June 24, 2016 at 7:30 am

    EU is coming apart like a cheap wind turbine.

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  • #
  • #
    pat

    24 Jun: NYT: Dan Bilefsky: Alarmed Britons Ask Pollsters: Why Didn’t You Warn Us?
    On the eve of the vote, most late polls showed the Remain side edging ahead. Late Thursday, the market research company YouGov put Remain up by 52 percent to 48 percent.

    ***As the voting ended on Thursday, Ipsos-Mori, another leading polling company, gave Remain an eight-percentage-point lead over the Leave side…

    Mr. Kellner (leading political commentator and a former president of YouGov) said one hypothesis was that the results may have been distorted by the sharp decline of people willing to participate in telephone polls, combined with online polls that reflected only the views of the people who had volunteered to participate…
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/25/world/europe/brexit-polls-britain-european-union.html?_r=0

    so, with headlines today, such as:

    The Brexit vote also helps Donald Trump

    Trump’s potential to win just jumped after UK showed rebellion is in the air

    Piers Morgan: Brexit Vote Should Leave Hillary Shaking in Her Boots

    we get this from the INCREDIBLE Reuters/***Ipsos!

    as one person comments: “This poll gets weirder and weirder” – read all the comments.

    24 Jun: FreeRepublicForum: Clinton regains double-digit lead over Trump: Reuters/Ipsos poll
    The June 20-24 poll showed that 46.6 percent of likely American voters supported Clinton while 33.3 percent supported Trump.
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3443416/posts

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  • #
    pat

    24 Jun: BBC Magazine: Jon Kelly: Brexit: How much of a generation gap is there?
    ***Remain supporter Elizabeth Mayfield, 19, looked on in despair as the referendum results came in.
    And she knew who she blamed – an older generation that she sees as having secure jobs and gold-plated generous pensions, people who had caused house prices to soar and plunged the country into debt.
    “I’m annoyed that baby boomers have messed things up for us again,” says Mayfield, a student at Staffordshire University.
    “They’ve voted for something that’s not going to really affect them. They’re not going to have to deal with the consequences.”
    It has been a common refrain on social media. Brexit would ruin “a whole generation’s future despite them voting against”, said one Tweeter. Another added: “Thank you baby boomers for the last nail in my generation’s coffin.”…
    For this reason there was anger about the fact that 16 and 17 year olds were denied a vote in the referendum, whereas Scots of the same age were able to participate in 2014′s vote on independence…
    ***And though most 18 to 25 year olds backed Remain, many didn’t…
    James Hofstetter, 20, an engineering student at the University of Central Lancashire, voted Leave, and says it’s wrong to imply the opinions of older people should count for less.
    “Everybody’s got one vote, and everybody’s vote is equal,” says Hofstetter.
    “These older people have grown up with the EU. They obviously know what’s going on.” Many 2016 Leavers would have voted to stay in the Common Market in 1975, but grown disillusioned with the reality of European integration, he says, and their experience should be acknowledged.
    And it’s not as though the young couldn’t have done more to make their voice heard…
    ***There’s evidence that areas with lots of younger voters tended to have lower turnouts, says Ford…
    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36619342

    BBC World Service had Elizabeth, now 18 not 19, on Newshour last nite:

    AUDIO: 24 Jun: BBC Newshour: The UK’s Historic Decision to Leave the EU
    36mins35secs in –
    (paraphrasing) Elizabeth Mayfield, 18. dissappointed but hopeful because, given a choice, Britain is more leftwing than the media makes out. she believes in one person, one vote, but believes the young should have had more of a say because OUR TURNOUT WAS SO LOW, especially in some areas that aren’t student towns. says it feels grossly unfair that people who aren’t going to feel the affects of this vote are the ones who have swung it and taken it away from them.

    BBC: there was enough info out there about how important it was, so surely it’s the fault of those who didn’t turn up to vote.

    Elizabeth: I see what you mean, but the campaigns didn’t really engage young people. so much scaremongering…it always seemed like a pipe-dream that we were going to leave & a lot of young people just expected the status quo to stay the same…

    the only young people Eizabeth really found voting were political & economic university students, while students involved in arts things didn’t cos they weren’t involved in those things cos they thought it would turn out right in the end anyway.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03yl1x7

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  • #
    Turtle of WA

    What fun:

    Why an E.U. without Britain is bad news for the fight against climate change

    Lefty internationalist cosmopolitans desperately searching for a silver lining:

    But hey, at least there’s one rather paradoxical (and, frankly, sad) potential upside for international climate policy. As Ed King of Climate Home noted, as an expected British economic downturn caused by the Brexit kicks in, “the resulting economic slump could lead to a fall in greenhouse gas emissions.” Roaring economies generally produce considerably more greenhouse gases than slowing ones.

    Damn those roaring economies.

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  • #
    pat

    funny how the MSM’s millennial narrative follows a pattern:

    24 Jun: WaPo: Lauren Razavi: British millennials like me are the real losers in the Brexit vote
    Decades of chaos have been unleashed by a generation of voters that barely possesses the digital literacy to use a USB stick.
    Today has been a day of bitterness, resentment and betrayal for British millennials like me…
    Being European has always been a given for us; most people my age had never questioned or doubted the future of U.K.-E.U. relations until this referendum campaign began. And why would we? Most of us recognize that we have more in common with young people in Spain or the Netherlands than we do with the older folks who share our British nationality…
    There are those of us who grew up with the Internet, and those whose lives go largely unaffected by anything digital or global in nature…
    Today, the future we imagined was stolen from us…
    Over the course of a single night, baby boomers have rejected expert opinion and torn apart my generation’s future. Why?…
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/06/24/british-millennials-like-me-are-the-real-losers-in-the-brexit-vote/

    unsurprisingly, Lauren writes for The Guardian:

    24 March: Guardian: Meet the tutor: Freelance journalist Lauren Razavi
    Ahead of her next Masterclass, freelance journalist and Guardian writer Lauren Razavi shares some tips for budding freelancers – and a trade secret on how to constantly improve as a writer.

    24 Jun: Vox: Julia Belluz: UK students: we woke up feeling betrayed this morning
    Oxford, UK — Gloom and disillusionment rippled across the Oxford University campus today, as students woke up to not only their final exams, but to news that the British electorate voted to separate from the EU, that their prime minister had resigned over the so-called “Brexit,” and that their economic prospects were suddenly thrown into turmoil…
    Standing outside a university cafe, after a night of celebration following her final exam, 19-year-old medical student Evie Rothwell said she was feeling a sense of “betrayal” this morning.
    “A really important decision was made for us by the older generation,” she explained…
    “Essentially people much, much older than us — and who won’t be around for the consequences — are giving us a future we don’t want,” added Jack Lennard, who just finished his undergraduate degree in archeology and anthropology…
    Aside from concern and confusion about the future, the students were surprised that Brexit could be real — and had words of caution for America…
    “I was so, so sure it wouldn’t happen,” Rothwell said. “I was 100 percent sure.” Walking through campus, Rothwell ran into a fellow student who admitted to being so wrapped up in exams that she didn’t vote — and now she’ll have to live with a decision that tilted against her preference to remain…
    ***”In Oxford especially, there’s this liberal atmosphere. You’re surrounded by so many like-minded people you forget there’s an outside world,” said Winn. “But especially in working-class communities, the Leave campaign was very popular. You do forget that being in an environment like this.”…
    “I have about 2,000 friends on Facebook — and all but three were voting ‘Remain.’ That tells you what kind of bubble you can live in, and how you can delude yourself it’s going to go one way and then it doesn’t.”
    ***Correction: Lennard misstated the number of friends on his Facebook account.
    http://www.vox.com/2016/6/24/12023548/brexit-youth-voters-wanted-britain-remain

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  • #
    DonS

    So people given the democratic opportunity to choose democracy or bureaucratic dictatorship choose democracy. What a surprise! The only question is how did so many in the media, government and elsewhere not see this coming? 52% to 48% is a solid majority in any election and would have been much larger if not for the massive scare campaign run by the remain campaign and their international backers.

    Sadly democracy does not always produce great results. In Australia we are about to have an election that is essentially a contest between dumb and dumber. No matter which side forms government after next weekend only 2 certainties will be the result,

    1) We will get a carbon tax, it won’t be called that, it will be a fund or levy or something that will be designed to show how much our politicians care about the future of families or children or some other worthy cause.

    2) The ABC with get a massive boost to its budget, to tell us why we need a carbon tax/fund/levy to save the future of families/children/etc…

    With the changes to the voting rules we have a once in a generation opportunity to vote in a full Senate and change politics in this country. In the Senate we can now vote in such a way as to exclude the major parities from getting any votes at all. Unfortunately most people will vote for the same old faces and nothing will change.

    I hope I’m wrong.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘…a contest between dumb and dumber.’

      Which is why I’m voting informal.

      This caught my eye.

      http://www.themediablog.co.uk/.a/6a011570c131b2970c01b8d1fc0fc0970c-800wi

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      • #
        Angry

        One Nation, Australian Liberty Alliance, Rise Up Australia, Christian Democrats, Shooters and Fishers amongst others are good choices for real Conservative voters.

        I have done a postal vote and spent time investigating on the internet each group on the enormous Senate paper.

        Any that :-
        Support [SNIP 18C ~ religions endorsing violent/capital punishment]
        Support same sex marriage
        Support wind/solar, global warming SCAM

        Were ALL put towards the bottom.

        I numbered ALL squares.

        Time well spent!!

        I found it very disturbing that some of the parties standing appear to be just Greens with an alternative name eg.

        Veterans Party
        Countryminded
        Health Australia Party
        Australian Progressives
        Jacquie Lambie Network
        Glenn Lazarus Team
        Nick Xenophon Team
        Mature Australia
        Katter’s Australian Party

        All seem to support the GLOBAL WARMING SCAM.

        Seems to be an attempt to fool the gullible voters……….

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “between dumb and dumber.”

      There’s a third party, the Greens, that goes to the next step !

      11

      • #
        AndyG55

        Sorry little red thumb, you didn’t understand ???

        I’ll spell it out for you

        Greens = DUMBEST !!!

        30

    • #
      ROM

      .
      Don S @ #92

      The word is that those voting early are voting the ticket in the Reps and voting the Independents in the Senate which like Brexit if it is carried through amongst the election day voters is going to make one hell of a mess of Turnbull’s political aspirations and has all sorts of future connotations about his political judgement amongst the political class and assorted media political dead wood hanger ons.

      So with the possibility, not yet a probability, of another dead locked parliament with a Government with the numbers in the House of Reps and a very mixed set of politically chameleon type independent actors in the Senate who will twist and turn for or against the current political wind, depending on how it suits them personally, Turnbull might just have about sealed his reputation in cement in the Gallery of Prime Minister’s past for a massive political mis-judgement of a Cameron’s Brexit proportions.

      20

  • #
    pat

    more millennial insanity:

    24 Jun: UK Telegraph: Adam Boult: Millennials’ ‘fury’ over baby boomers’ vote for Brexit
    With all polls showing that support for Brexit was significantly higher among those aged 55 and above, the inter-generational divide has seen large numbers of millennials apportion blame to older voters for what some describe as a ‘betrayal’…

    TWEET: Chai Cameron
    I’m scared. Jokes aside I’m actually scared. Today an older generation has voted to ruin the future for the younger generation. I’m scared.

    Yorkshire Post columnist Grant Woodward wrote: “Brexit will come to be seen as the Baby Boomers’ ultimate betrayal of younger generations and those that will follow. A knee-jerk response to a series of red herrings, a protest vote with the potential for long-term catastrophe that they won’t be around to endure.”…ETC
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/millenials-fury-over-baby-boomers-vote-for-brexit/

    above writer Boult also has another ridiculous piece on the petition. if it was started last November, the six-month period would have passed for getting 100,000 votes, plus it was asking for rules to be made for the Jun 23 vote!

    24 Jun: UK Telegraph: Adam Boult: Petition for second EU referendum attracts thousands of signatures
    Originally launched last November, at 10am today it had more than 77,000 rising to 114,000 by 1pm – 14,000 more than the limit required for it to be considered for debate in Parliament…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/petition-for-second-eu-referendum-attracts-thousands-of-signatur/

    20

    • #
      Annie

      Those youngsters should be darned glad they’ve been saved from an ever-tightening dictatorship.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based on a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum,’ the petition, filed this morning, reads.

      Yep, it could get really interesting.

      20

      • #
        Dennis

        Reads like something written by Australian Republicans.

        12

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Any mention of the number of signatures? Also, as it was not filed prior to the event, it may not have legal standing, since it seeks to modify, post-hoc, the generally accepted default of a simple majority.

        And another thought: People who did not bother to vote in the last referendum are more likely to vote in a subsequent referendum. That is what the petitioners are relying on.

        What they fail to understand is that a significant proportion of the constituency did not vote, because they didn’t think their vote would make any difference to the outcome. Nobody has been interested in their point of view, until now. Especially the views of the non-elite.

        Now that the “leave” lobby have won a referendum, they realise that they can make a difference, and so they will turn out in force, for any subsequent replay.

        On the other hand, the “remain” lobby will also turn out, but only with a view of correcting what they see as an anomaly.

        I pick that if this subsequent petition is accepted, and a new referendum held, there will be an increased swing towards the leave camp.

        Referenda are not cheap. Is Brussels going to anti-up for the rematch?

        30

        • #
          Ross

          Rereke

          Apparently it was lodged before the “event” ( although there is so much BS going around I’d take that with a grain of salt) There are now 2.2 million on it —but it’s an online petition so you could have a majority of them being non UK voters. It would all have to be checked very carefully.

          A poster on another blog made the following comment –” Another referendum is no good -should have the best of five!!”

          00

    • #
      Yonniestone

      I wonder how many of those Millennials showed the same outrage towards their elderly dying in their thousands during winter because of insane weather mitigation laws driving the cost of heating past those most vulnerable?
      But the same twerps will mindlessly recite mantras at pro refugee rallies supporting people that don’t need help and don’t care about their futures, the PC stupidity has wiped any memories of history with this lot, don’t they know their ability to freely speak is only because of the sacrifices of those they openly disparage?

      The elderly were once revered in family and society, these children must learn their self entitlement was only achieved by standing on the shoulders of giants.

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  • #
    ROM

    Some of the Young Brits are blaming the older Brits for the Brexit vote.star comment

    The political, financial and coddled, swaddled, highly paid self serving and self promoting elite are blaming the ordinary Brit and snidely accusing him and her as being ignorant of what was good for them as decreed by those self same elites.

    The French, Germans and other assorted elitist europhiles are blaming the British people for not understanding what was good for them as defined by those same French, Germans and assorted elitist europhiles.

    Few indeed are yet to the stage and understanding that the European Union itself right down to its governing core and the individuals in that core are solely, directly and entirely and totally responsible for,
    1 / First that the UKIP ever came to exist,
    2 / That Cameron to shut the UKIP and the Leavers up decided to hold a Brexit vote that would close out the Leavers forever and finally and most importantly of all,
    3 / The EU Brussels based hierarchy in their total arrogance, their open condescension and their often open contempt for the views and beliefs and feelings and comfort zones of the British citizens but also for the ordinary citizen through out the EU member nations have brought this entire situation and the possible collapse of the EU entirely upon themselves alone.
    .

    If the Brussels based EU heirarchy had any level of sensitivity at all to the feelings and cultures of the citizens of all its member nations they would have treaded much, much more slowly and much, much more lightly with the imposition and enforcement of all the immense number of straight out petty rules and regulations and plain bureaucratic red tape stupidity that they have tried to impose and enforce onto the EU’s member nations whose ordinary citizens were never allowed to have any input or any say or allowed to express any opinions as a national demographic on any of the EU’s proclamations that were national Law as soon as they were proclaimed.
    .

    Only a narrow self selecting and politically incestuous section of the various national elites were allowed any input or allowed to have any influence on the EU’s political and bureaucratic processes.
    .

    We have now seen what the British citizen thinks of their own elitist pro EU leadership and we are now beginning to see elsewhere in other EU member nations just what the ordinary citizens of those other EU member nations think and believe about their own equally arrogant, elitist and unfeeling for the common man and woman, self satisfied and ultimately self serving leadership elites as well.

    So to those who continue to blame everybody except themselves and the EU hierarchy for the fact that a Brexit vote was ever proposed let alone for the voting outcome, I say get real!

    You and your stupidity in not first recognising that the EU was going horribly wrong and doing so a long time back in their approach to national sensitivities and the wide range of national cultures across the EU member nations plus your total failure in ever even trying to bring some sense and some sensitivity to the EU processes and the EU hierarchy’s attitude towards all those long existing historical and national cultural outlooks and backgrounds is arguably more YOUR fault than it is anybody elses.

    Stop blaming others for the straight out fact that a majority of the British people have decided that the EU has lost its way completely and no longer operates for or represents the interests of the ordinary British citizen or increasingly the interest of the ordinary citizens of many other current EU member nations.

    The EU has become an elitist organisation run by the elites solely for the benefit those elites and to promote the power and control those elites wish to exercise over the common EU citizen and that as history so often confirms is eventually devastating for the elitists and their all pervading power structures when a significant number of the citizenry decide they have had enough of the elitist arrogance, condescension and ever increasing and increasingly vicious intolerance of any questioning of their policies or actions..

    161

    • #
      Dennis

      I think that many astute observers realise that younger people who have been educated since the 1970s have been brain washed into group think relating to many socialist agendas.

      81

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Of course: “Give me the boy, and I will show you the man”.

        10

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        Thair parent fought through two world wars so that their children could be privileged.
        “Privileged” in this case in an insult, and an insult to their parents whom they now lambast for making a democratic decision, along with they themselves.

        Just how privileged does one have to feel, to believe that your own thoughts are greater than everyone elses? They lack experience, they lack history, they lack understanding of every description. Yet they will never accept that they might not have all the facts (or that the facts they do know are not facts at all).

        Anyway, enough of this.

        31

        • #
          Raven

          Yep . . When I was fourteen I thought my Dad was a dill.
          By the time I’d reached 21, I was impressed with how much he’d learned.

          20

      • #

        Gramsci and Alynsky
        long march through the
        institutions, youth
        indoctrination being the
        goal…eternal vigilance
        and positive resistance,
        the democratic duty
        of the adults.

        20

    • #
      Another Ian

      ROM

      Somewhere in my readings around this event I saw a comment that there were no statistics collected on who of what age group voted which way and it is yet another very dodgy projection that has produced that set of tables.

      But the would we be suprised?

      31

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        You’ve used unsourced rumour as your information source about the figures and you’re blaming other people for making dodgy claims about the figures? That really is irony.

        You’re half right insofar as the source of the age distribution figures is not the actual plebiscite because that was anonymous. The source was an online poll run by YouGov UK in conjunction with The Times newspaper in the week leading up to the eve before the plebiscite. Results summary document:
        https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/atmwrgevvj/TimesResults_160622_EVEOFPOLL.pdf

        Interesting that the social class definitions [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NRS_social_grade ] show that the rich/educated classes voted to Remain about 50% more often than the poorer classes did. Yet the older a person was the more likely they were to vote Leave, with the biggest drop in Remain being after age 25. One might be tempted to assume that the fraction of the population with tertiary education has increased over the last 25 years with most them being younger, implying that older people have spent less time in the new education system that has been dumbed down by the leftists over that period. But that would only be an assumption because the complete data is not available to analyse.

        10

    • #
      ROM

      Oh! How the worm doth turn!
      And turns so fast!

      I posted my above comment mid afternoon at 4pm.

      Tonight I read a couple of the BBC’s opinion writer’s comments and its not Britain that is doubtful whether it can save itself.
      It is now whether the EU might or might not be able to save itself.

      Brexit’s uncharted territory: Can the EU save itself?

      [ quoted ; bolding mine ]

      The European Union is now facing the biggest crisis in its history.
      “It’s an explosive shock,” said French Prime Minister Manuel Valls, shortly after the victory of the Leave campaign was confirmed.

      “At stake, purely and simply,” Mr Valls added, “is the break-up of the union. We have to invent another Europe.”

      It is indeed not inconceivable that further fragmentation could follow.
      Political emotions are running high in many European countries.
      Old certainties are being abandoned.

      &

      There are those who argue that – with the UK no longer holding them back – a “coalition of the willing,” led by France and Germany, could push forward with further integration to restore confidence in the European project.

      Defence and security is one area where progress could be made relatively quickly.

      But is that what citizens actually want?

      Euroscepticism is not an exclusively British phenomenon.
      There have already been calls from populist politicians in France, Italy and the Netherlands for their own referendums on EU membership.

      So it is hard to avoid the impression that political elites in Europe have for too long ignored the concerns of people who feel they have been buffeted by globalisation, and other forces beyond their control.

      And those who believe in the idea of European unity know that they have to respond quickly.
      Their vision of Europe has taken a decisive step backwards, and the EU will be weaker without the UK.

      &

      “The future of the European Union in my view genuinely hangs in the balance,” the Oxford historian Timothy Garton Ash told me recently, at the height of the UK referendum campaign.

      “Not that it’s going to collapse tomorrow, but I think what is most important at the moment is that the European Union can deliver practical answers – to economic growth inside the eurozone; to managing the flow of refugees and migrants; and to addressing the fears of populations which lead them to vote for Eurosceptic and nationalist parties.”

      It is a formidable list.
      But if the EU is to survive and prosper without the UK, it will have to tackle the toughest issues head on.

      Europe’s political order has been overturned, with far-reaching consequences that no-one can accurately predict.

      &
      The EU’s elite are now beginning to mess their nappies [ as politely as I could put it ] as their own citizens begin to come at them.

      Scared by Brexit, Europe asks what next

      In all the years I’ve covered European politics, I’ve never seen this continent so Eurosceptic or the future of the European Union so uncertain.

      Talk in Europe today moved swiftly from Brexit to possible Frexit (France voting to leave the EU), Swexit (that’s Sweden) and more.

      Leaders of Europe’s increasingly influential Eurosceptic parties queued up today to crow over the British vote and make political capital out of it.

      “It’s now a reality for everyone. It is possible to leave the EU,” proclaimed Marine Le Pen of France’s National Front (FN), a leading contender in next year’s presidential election.

      The mood in Brussels is resentful and despondent, while governments across Europe are scared.
      They feel the heat from angry electorates who share many of the criticisms of the EU highlighted during the UK’s referendum campaign.

      That’s why you’ve been hearing the words “EU” and “reform” of late from the nervous mouths of some you’d least expect, such as Germany’s Angela Merkel and Donald Tusk, the Brussels-based President of the European Council.

      Because they’re so worried, the EU is preparing to get tough with Britain over the terms and timing of a new trade relationship.
      This is not about punishment – well, not much.
      It’s more a desire for the process to be painful to put others off exiting, while Europe’s leadership tries to re-group and, perhaps, reform.

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        ROM

        Now here is something I didn’t know still existed today and its a very nice niche for the UK to move into as it is run by and for four non EU European nations
        The UK was a former member of this group but left it to join the European Economic Community, the Free European trade forerunner to the EU in 1973

        The European Free Trade Association

        [ quoted ]
        The European Free Trade Association (EFTA) is an intergovernmental organisation set up for the promotion of free trade and economic integration to the benefit of its four Member States: Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland.

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      PeterPetrum

      Rom, thank you so much for that. I have copied it and will be sending it to all my friends (perhaps no more) and relatives back in the UK to either congratulate them on their decision or point out why they were wrong! Really well put together and I think it sums up the whole situation perfectly. The scare tactics re the financial consequences and the possibility of WW3 were reprehensible, amd the “common” man send woman saw through ithem. Well done them!

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    el gordo

    The big money was on Stay but the small punters fluttered in large numbers to Leave.

    ‘And the bookies all agreed that while three-quarters of the £40 million eventually gambled on the referendum was placed on Remain, when it came to counting individual flutters, bets on Leave far outnumbered punts on staying in the EU.

    ‘But Mr Shaddick admitted the predictive power of the bookies’ referendum odds: “Will no doubt be heavily criticised, understandably.”

    The Independent

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    ScotsmaninUtah

    The selfish and the self absorbed

    Now that the UK has voted to leave the EU we see a petition by pro EU supporters to hold a 2nd referendum.
    It seems we live in a world where certain people who do not get their way , are quite prepared to ride rough shod over the wishes of those who hold an opposite opinion.

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      … And they will keep on petitioning, until the stupid majority can manage to get “the right result”. I mean, how hard can it be?

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      Raven

      I reckon the useful idiots are indignant because BrExit has rendered them not so useful.
      Pass each of them a straw, please.

      [Raven, Jo want's to discourage name calling so is the name calling important to your meaning? I can think of several ways to say what I think you mean without calling them idiots. But even more to the point, I would rather not have to interpret what you mean by useful idiots.] AZ

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    pat

    Jo, well worth watching.
    Feierstein is always good, but is exceptional here with his knowledge of the finer details of the vote. almost as if he reads your website. Max might be right about Farage’s future, but see second link:

    25 Jun: Keiser Report: BREXIT SPECIAL
    Max and Stacy are joined from New York City by Mitch Feierstein of PlanetPonzi.com to dissect the economic, monetary and financial consequences of the ‘shocking’ Brexit vote – Britain votes to leave the European Union. The Keiser Report team look closer at the market sell off and ask if it’s part of a wider market weakness set in motion months ago, then examine the role of the media, much as in the rise of Donald Trump, in simply failing to understand the ‘disposable’ voters left behind by globalization. Mitch shows a chart proving that the biggest pound sterling sell-off was actually in 2008 and the currency has never really recovered since then…
    https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/348318-episode-max-keiser-932/

    can’t access even tho readers have told me how to do so!
    Farage was largely responsible for bringing home the BREXIT vote, so his fury is understandable. more power to you Farage:

    Furious Nigel Farage to take control of Britain’s exit from the EU in Brussels after Vote Leave freezes him out
    Telegraph.co.uk‎ – 1 hour ago
    Nigel Farage has reacted with fury after Vote Leave said it would exclude him from a cross-party committee which will negotiate Britain’s exit …

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    pat

    WaPo headline should be:

    “When it comes to Trump, former Goldman Sachs Chair Hank Poulson, partner of Clinton-endorsing Bloomberg & Steyer in CAGW “Risky Business” scam, says”…

    24 Jun: WaPo: When it comes to Trump, a Republican Treasury secretary says: Choose country over party
    By Henry M. Paulson Jr.
    Henry M. Paulson Jr. is chairman of the Paulson Institute and a former U.S. treasury secretary and chief executive of Goldman Sachs.
    ***I can’t help but think what would have happened if a divisive character such as Trump were president during the 2008 financial crisis, at a time when leadership, compromise and careful analysis were critical…
    Simply put, a Trump presidency is unthinkable…
    I’ll be voting for Hillary Clinton, with the hope that she can bring Americans together to do the things necessary to strengthen our economy, our environment and our place in the world.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/when-it-comes-to-trump-a-republican-treasury-secretary-says-choose-country-over-party/2016/06/24/c7bdba34-3942-11e6-8f7c-d4c723a2becb_story.html

    references:

    “Bloomberg’s Gun Control Lobby Endorses Hillary Clinton” Town Hall

    “Billionaire Environmentalist Tom Steyer Endorses Hillary Clinton” HuffPo

    reminder:

    ***Time Magazine: 25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis
    The good intentions, bad managers and greed behind the meltdown
    Blameworthy: Hank Paulson
    The three main gripes against Paulson are that he was late to the party in battling the financial crisis, letting Lehman Brothers fail was a big mistake and the big bailout bill he pushed through Congress has been a wasteful mess.

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  • #
    pat

    24 Jun: RT: Putin on Brexit: No one wants to support weak economies
    “I think it’s comprehensible why this happened: first, no one wants to feed and subsidize poorer economies, to support other states, support entire nations,” the Russian president said at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit in Tashkent…
    “The markets will surely lose ground, they have done so already, but in the midterm everything will be restored, surely,” Putin predicted…
    President Putin linked the results of the British referendum to the high concentration of power within the EU structure.
    “The percentage of mandatory decisions made by the European Parliament is larger than that of mandatory decisions made by the High Council of the USSR concerning its member-republics. This means that the powers are highly concentrated within [the administrative body of the EU],” the Russian president said.
    “Perhaps some are satisfied with this state of affairs, some do want to move along this road of dissolving the national borders, but some don’t. As the referendum results have shown, the majority of Britons don’t want to follow this path,” Putin added.
    https://www.rt.com/news/348201-putin-brexit-weak-economies/

    yes, it’s comprehensible:

    25 Jun: UK Daily Mail: Amie Gordon: Bonfire of the EU laws: From crooked cucumbers to powerful vacuum cleaners, the barmy Brussels regulations we can now get rid of
    2. Incandescent lightbulbs …
    6. It is illegal to eat your pet horse
    In 2009 a law set out it was illegal to eat ‘pet’ horses after figures revealed that around two million pet horses were eaten across the EU each year.
    According to the guidelines, all horses, ponies, donkeys and related animals (including zoo species like zebras) must have a horse passport…ETC
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658811/Barmy-Brussels-regulations-UK-leaves-EU-referendum-result.html

    following costs time & money, even if it won’t pass!

    22 Jun: Reuters: Georgina Prodhan: Europe’s robots to become ‘electronic persons’ under draft plan
    Europe’s growing army of robot workers could be classed as “electronic persons” and their owners liable to paying social security for them if the European Union adopts a draft plan to address the realities of a new industrial revolution…
    Their growing intelligence, pervasiveness and autonomy requires rethinking everything from taxation to legal liability, a draft European Parliament motion, dated May 31, suggests…
    However, Germany’s VDMA, which represents companies such as automation giant Siemens (SIEGn.DE) and robot maker Kuka (KU2G.DE), says the proposals are too complicated and too early…
    The draft motion called on the European Commission to consider “that at least the most sophisticated autonomous robots could be established as having the status of electronic persons with specific rights and obligations”.
    It also suggested the creation of a register for smart autonomous robots, which would link each one to funds established to cover its legal liabilities…
    The draft motion, drawn up by the European parliament’s committee on legal affairs also said organizations should have to declare savings they made in social security contributions by using robotics instead of people, for tax purposes…
    The motion faces an uphill battle to win backing from the various political blocks in European Parliament. Even if it did get enough support to pass, it would be a non-binding resolution as the Parliament lacks the authority to propose legislation.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-robotics-lawmaking-idUSKCN0Z72AY

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    • #
      James Murphy

      it’s probably just the lack of coffee, and an over-exuberant friday night, but I kept reading ‘draft motion’ as ‘daft notion’

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    James Murphy

    looking at my very small ‘social media’ world, I am particularly surprised at the fear, horror, and disappointment displayed by those who now live in the UK, but are not citizens, and those who were born in the UK.

    There is talk of not feeling safe in their houses, of imminent deportation, of vote rigging, of imminent financial and social collapse, of ‘hearing the sound of jackboots approaching’, violence in the streets, and overall, talk as though there will be a wall built around the whole UK, isolating it from the rest of the world.

    All I can surmise from this hysterical and illogical response from people whom i consider friends, and who are all well educated, and as reasonable about things as us humans can be, is that the ‘Remain’ campaign was remarkably successful in its fear mongering, even if it didn’t get the requisite number of votes.

    If I look at all these responses by themselves, I can honestly say I do not recognise who these people are. To me, this is more terrifying than the result of the referendum.

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    • #

      Social media, sans history, sans context, nuthin’
      ter compare with,Orwell’s Oceana ignorance,twitter’s
      a good name fer it.

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      • #
        James Murphy

        Ordinarily I would agree, but what astonishes me is that these views and opinions have all come from people who are not just random ‘Facebook friends’, but people I know, like, and respect. Well, at least I thought i did, until I started reading their drivel on the matter at hand.

        Re-reading what I wrote previously, it might look like I think the referendum results are ‘terrifying’, but no, I think it will be exciting to see what happens next, and will be very entertained as none of the dire outcomes predicted by various ‘remain’ fanatics come to pass.

        As for Twitter – I never have, and never will be part of that particular ignorant narcissists wet dream.

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    pat

    can’t resist an ABC comment before focusing on the Wales/NZ rugby match.

    ABC, like BBC, has been 100% negative on the BREXIT win:

    segment begins 2hrs 07mins in but McNaughton talks for ages, so start further along.
    3.00.52 Quinn repeats text from listener: “bogan vote got BREXIT over the line”.
    Quinn: that’s what i’m saying – i can’t believe they didn’t know what they were voting for.
    Quinn should be fired. the arrogance he displays with callers is breath-taking. his tantrums rival the millennials quoted earlier in the comments & he also seeks a second referendum.

    AUDIO: 25 Jun: ABC Overnights: Rod Quinn EU Referendum
    Guest: Anne McNaughton, Deputy Director, ANU Centre for European Studies and Senior Lecturer and International Student Advisor, ANU College of Law
    ***Quinn: is it legally binding…in a year, or 2 years, could the govt say it’s all too hard, we’re going to have another vote & this time they’ll vote “Stay”?
    https://radio.abc.net.au/programitem/peyD9band3?play=true

    McNaughton starts by saying she’s just read a story on SMH that first appeared in Daily Mail, & Quinn uses it throughout the lengthy segment to insult the voters, and the listeners who call in:

    Google search spike post-Brexit suggests people don’t know why they voted to leave
    Daily Mail – ‎13 hours ago‎
    The analytics arm of Californian search giant Google recorded a huge spike in the numbers of Brits querying the fallout of yesterday’s EU referendum vote. Google Trends recorded a spike in the number of people asking ‘What happens if we leave the EU?
    2 FUN COMMENTS:
    Who is to say the leavers googled this and not the ones who voted to remain ? What a stupid article…
    It’s the ‘Remain’ voters Googling; Brexiters are too busy partying!
    ====
    i believe NOTHING google says, but keep in mind no country has ever left the EU, so no-one knows how an exit proceeds, so there’d be much to research once the results were in.

    fast forward to this morning – DEPRESSING BREXIT:

    25 Jun: ABC Radio National: Saturday Extra:
    Brexit: market update
    Guest: Edward Luce, Financial Times chief US commentator and columnist

    followed by “3 MOURNFUL” anti-BREXIT guests as Geraldine Doogue stand-in Andrew West describes them. the voters are STUPID:

    Brexit: the reaction
    Guests:
    Martin Fletcher, Former foreign correspondent and foreign editor of The Times, now a freelance writer.
    Gabby Hinsliff, Guardian columnist & writer, political editor at The Pool
    Matthew Parris, Columnist for The Times and former Conservative Politician
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/saturdayextra/

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    pat

    half-time at the rugby & realised i hadn’t posted this clarification cos i posted Tele Boult stating Healey petition was launched last november. instead, it seems it went up once BREXIT won:

    24 Jun: International Business Times: Rachel Middleton: Brexit: Plethora of petitions push for London independence and another EU referendum
    The petition, started by William Oliver Healey on ***Friday 24 June states…
    ***The (UK) Independent added: “Of course, a second referendum would almost certainly be rejected, as referenda are not the sort of thing you get a second crack at.”…
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brexit-plethora-petitions-push-london-independence-another-eu-referendum-1567338

    those launching the petitions deserve to be in the EU. totalitarians.

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    carol

    Of course the ABC, BBC, and most of the MSM supported ‘remain’ for the UK and is consequently horrified that England and Wales voted otherwise. The senior level of the media have always been well aware of The Kalergi Plan and the methods necessary to implement it and the important role they are to play in this. I expect the media to throw everything behind all and any attempts to stall and, if at all possible, overturn this result. At least though, the terms ‘racist’ and ‘Islamaphobe’ have not been enough this time to pressure a little over half the voting population into submission. Overuse does have its consequences.

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    There’s a map with more detail on Wonkypedia illustrating the pockets of remainers in leave territory and vice versa.

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    PeterS

    What freedom they have left has ruled the day. Good on them. Now the Western powers of the world will regroup and put into practice ways to stop this exercise of freedom being expressed by the very people who the government elate should serve. The only question I have is which form of totalitarian regime will we end up having? Extreme right or extreme left – not that it will any different in the long run? It’s more of an academic exercise.

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    fromdownunder

    If Scotland wants a referendum on independency again, so be it. If the vote is for independence this time we might as well give them London; and the can rejoin the EU.

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  • #
    TdeF

    While the MSM cannot find any good in the BREXIT, with dark foreboding and gloom and doom, the majority of the people are too busy partying.

    What is puzzling though is that no one can put their finger on what is going to be missing, what is so bad about ‘leaving’. Nothing is said. What exactly was so special about being in the EU? Where was the real advantage, the dramatic economic gain? The costs were everywhere but what exactly was the real advantage, especially for the ordinary men and women of Britain? No one seems to know, but without these special advantages, Britain will suffer?

    It all seems so much smoke and mirrors and regulations. Free trade is a choice. Free travel too. Everyone still has their passports and their own currency, their own lives and Nationality. Freedom opens many trade doors too and negotiations can achieve the same results as regulation. At least a British people can make their own mistakes but the opinion makers seem to say things were so much better under foreign rule? The opinion makers, the journalists especially and the twittering classes are all for subjugation, submission to the wisdom of others. Their wisdom.

    So how exactly were all the downsides of submission to the will and taxation of others worth it for the ordinary person? While the disadvantages were legion and real and obvious, the supposed advantages of being in the EU were never explained and fifty years after the experiment began, perhaps never existed.

    Now expect the French and Germans to threaten and show their true colours and as one of the many heads of the EU hydra has already said, expect a nasty divorce. Better that than an abusive relationship.

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    ROM

    Brexit; To all those who didn’t get what they thought they were going to get without any effort on their part as the opposition was too stupid to do anything but what they were told to do and so they lost and now those selfish, self centred young and elites want to change those well established rules to just to suit themselves and to achieve that they believed was their god given right to have but which nobody else had any similar rights to their own beliefs and opinions.
    .

    It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried
    __________.

    To all the pundits and predictors of how, when, where and why for the future of the UK and the EU after Brexit?
    .
    It is a mistake to look too far ahead. Only one link of the chain of destiny can be handled at a time.
    __________.

    To the EU elite! Does much more need to be said?
    .

    If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law.
    __________.

    Again to the EU elite. For this you are condemned for all time.
    .

    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    ___________.

    To the Leavers.
    .

    You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.
    .

    The quotes author;> Winston Churchill

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      ROM,

      That’s a very good collection of Churchill quotes. Unfortunately the foolish will ignore the wisdom embodied in them.

      Democracy at its very best is a messy and sometimes ugly thing. It cannot function without compromises among the various factions and these days no one is looking for a compromise with their principles. But at least a very promising and bold step has been taken. If it brings the EU down and its members to their senses, good. But if not, the Brits have done themselves a potentially life changing favor by getting out. And now we must watch and wait to see what comes of it, one link at a time as Sir Winston said so well.

      We need such leaders now and they’re nowhere in sight.

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    On polling day an opinion survey was conducted of over 12000 people by Lord Ashcroft’s polling organisation.
    The principle reason people gave for voting Leave was

    the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK

    (49%)
    The principle reason people gave for voting Remain was

    the risks of voting to leave the EU looked too great when it came to things like the economy, jobs and prices

    (43%)
    The principle reason for voting to leave the EU was for independence. The principle reason for voting to remain in the EU was a mixture of security and fear of the unknown. From the campaign it seems many were motivated to vote Remain to incapacitate a democratically-elected Government from pursuing policies they did not like.

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    doubtingdave

    Kevin , should your last sentence read ; motivated to vote leave (not remain ) . Roy Hogue , Trump for a while has hammered so called free trade deals as not being fair trade deals , he has consistently criticised the Chinese for rigging the system by deliberately devaluing the yen so that they can flood America and the west with cheap imports , the Brexit vote has amplified this , by pushing up the value of the Dolllar against the pound and the Euro etc , meaning American exports become more expensive whilst those Chineese imports become even cheaper , once again Trump has been proved correct , so is it not about time despite your reluctance and reservations that you Roy climbed aboard the Trump train ? . All the best Roy .

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      Roy Hogue

      As I have said, it no longer matters what I think of Donald Trump. My hand is forced and I have no choice. Hillary will be far worse so I will be voting for Trump.

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    Tommo

    Watch even now as the politicians steal it back

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    Egor TheOne

    What Monckton had to say on the Brexit result: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/06/24/thank-you-america/#comments

    Brilliant as always!

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