Green Utopia? Adventure park wants to “go solar” but raze 15,000 trees

It takes bumper government subsidies to destroy this many trees for so little reason:

Six Flags Adventure Park goes Solar Slate

The plan, the largest solar installation in New Jersey, will generate 21.4 megawatts of electricity, enough to power the amusement park’s Garden State facility. The company projects that the initiative will eliminate approximately 215,000 tons of CO2 emissions over 15 years…

“We are excited about the fact that this project will reduce carbon emissions by 31 times more than the trees and shrubs that will be removed, and that we will become the world’s first solar-powered theme park,” said Kristin Siebeneicher, communications manager for Six Flags Great Adventure and Safari.

The 66 acres of native wildlife may not be so excited.

Nor are the surrounding hominids. Can’t please em’:

Local residents and environmental groups—including Clean Water Action, Crosswicks/Doctors Creek Watershed Association, Environment New Jersey, NJ Conservation Foundation, Save Barnegat Bay, and the Sierra Clubbeg to differ, claiming that razing nearly 15,000 trees will adversely impact water quality, air quality and sound quality; decrease the wildlife population; and affect biodiversity,…

Somewhere a plot of underground coal is being protected.

Welcome to a managed economy, where we try to fix weather problems by creating environmental and economic ones. In a free market, the forest might stay, the coal would be used, everyone would get cheaper electricity and have more cash to spare to use to go to the theme park and to donate to environmental groups.

Various subgroups of greenness say the company should put the solar panels over the car park.The company says the car parks are used for other events, may be developed for other things, and are full in peak season. In the off season Amazon parks “warehouse” trailers there. Such are the complexities of big business…

Try a socialist solution to fix a socialist problem — fail:

State officials even offered to buy the land to stop Six Flags from deforesting it, but the company declined their offer.

Rinse, repeat, recycle. Greens raise new environmental concerns to trump previous ones:

Marina Shapiro is a local resident who lives close enough to Six Flags’ property to have seen zebra, giraffe, and antelope in the park’s safari from a road near her house. Now, what is currently a forest at the end of her street will contain thousands of solar panels. Shapiro, who co-founded the Jackson Citizens Coalition to oppose the project, has a variety of concerns. For instance, she worries a fire could start out in the field, given that electrical voltage is always going through the panels. The state Department of Environmental Protection’s Forest Fire Service recommends a 100-foot buffer between any structure and forest. But the proposed Six Flags buffer is just 30 feet. Shapiro also fears that the panels will contaminate the soil and water underneath them, given that they contain lead, a known carcinogen. Lead is in many photovoltaic modules, including some of the panels being used by Six Flags.

Keep a forest to reduce the fire risk?

h/t Climate Depot

9.3 out of 10 based on 57 ratings

66 comments to Green Utopia? Adventure park wants to “go solar” but raze 15,000 trees

  • #

    So, destroy a forest to save the planet? Get rid of the other species to save the one species which really matters? Is there any other motive than profit? All to reduce CO2 which is desperately needed for the carbon cycle which maintains life on earth? With saviors like these, who needs to be saved? This is a great case where doing nothing at no cost at all is far preferable.


    • #

      “forest”????????????????????????????? “native wildlife”?…”other species” ??
      Surely TdeF Jo has made a mistake. I honestly would have thought it is just a plantation forest with genetically modified plant organisms/trees that are now called ‘forests’ that are protecterd to the exclusion of anything else using copious amounts of herbicide and pesticide that Jo is talking about. If it is a forest, then it will be a minimal biological diversity due to infiltration of weed species.

      The extent of local extinction all over the world due to the conversion of native state (privatised) forests in water catchment areas like Lake Eildon and all around Lake Narracan here in Gippsland Victoria where i live continues unabated with increasing speed.

      The idea that there are actual forests that have not been left to rot does not fit with what i have seen so far.

      Good grief!!… where does it end??

      For a true native forest to survive, it needs to be large, else it is colonised by weeds, feral species, or genetically modified gums and pines.

      The concept of ‘local extinction’ is not even in the vocabulary of so called environmentalism these days.

      According to the average environmental wiseacring as long as one orange bellied parrot exists, even if it is a dead parrot, it is deemed to not be dead yet….just having a rest perhaps. And so on in that manner.

      Or, it is not extinct if some DNA has been preserved in a cryogenic vat. That is the kind of minimalist concept of extinction prevalent today.

      What is so difficult about about being able to say that for example, a quarter acre is razed logged or destroyed and so therefore all species are now extinct in that quarter acre ??


      • #
        Steve of Cornubia

        Touring around the place on Google maps, the ‘forest’ in the region appears to be fairly ‘young’ hardwoods. I didn’t find any pine. It might be that the trees aren’t all that young, but they all look smallish – nothing huge and old-looking. It doesn’t look over-managed though, with a fair bit of undergrowth, at least within sight of the roads. My guess would be that there is a fair degree of biodiversity supported, especially in comparison to a sterile solar farm. The region generally seems to have a lot of undeveloped land, so it should contain a fair bit of wildlife.

        I am no expert in these matters. However, I grew up roaming around an English country estate, where my father was the Head Woodsman. The estate comprised mostly farmland, plus plantation and patches of old growth (i.e. natural) woodland. One of my favourite places was a young pine plantation, where the trees had not grown tall enough to rob the undergrowth of sunlight. Consequently, there was plenty of wildlife and I loved to just park myself somewhere for an hour or so, in which time the local fauna would forget I was there and start to reappear. Magical.


  • #
    Egor TheOne

    What ?

    Less trees to hug ?

    Cut down the forest to make way for solar power ?



  • #

    Did they pelletize them trees and send them to Drax.. that’s what I wants to know. !!


  • #

    “enough to power the amusement park’s Garden State facility”

    Makes a bit of sense.

    The park will mostly likely only be open when its sunny.


  • #
    Robert O.

    Just a few sums on this. 66 acres is around 25 ha. of presumably natural hardwood forest, oak, elm, maple etc. Annual growth rate about 8 m3/ha./yr., so for 25 ha. and 15 years this is about 3,000 cubic metres of hardwood or 1500 tonnes of dry wood. Hardwood is fairly dense and 60% is carbon, that is 900 tonnes or 3,300 tonnes of carbon dioxide.

    Their estimate is 215,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide by installing a solar array which 31 times more efficient than leaving the forest. My estimate of carbon sequestration of the forest is about half of theirs.

    If the forest is either left alone, or periodically thinned, the carbon dioxide absorbed is converted into wood or lumber and kept out of the atmosphere for many years, but what happens to 21.4 MW of electricity, surely some of this will be used in some carbon dioxide generating activity?


  • #

    by chance, i heard an extremely distraught grazier from Roma, Queensland, talking to Alan Jones this morning, apparently about tree clearing, with Jones saying he would be following up the matter.

    decided to check online to see what might be causing the farmer such distress & found this tragic story – tragic for the murdered man, his family & friends, but also for the killer & his family & friends:

    23 Jun: ABC: Moree shooting: Farmer Ian Turnbull (aged 81) jailed for 35 years for murdering environmental officer
    A farmer who shot and killed a New South Wales environmental officer over a land dispute has been jailed for a minimum of 24 years.
    Ian Turnbull was found guilty last month of the 2014 murder of Glen Turner, near Moree, in north-western New South Wales…
    During the trial the court heard Turnbull was facing prosecutions by OEH in the Land and Environment Court over illegal land clearing, which he continued to do after officially being told to stop…
    Turnbull’s son Grant also testified that the family would have faced financial ruin if they had lost their legal battle with the OEH…
    After firing his final and fatal shot, Turnbull said he was going home and the police would know where to find him…
    ‘This will happen again’ if vegetation laws not changed: son
    Turnbull’s son Grant Turnbull said a similar tragedy would happen unless the state’s native vegetation laws were changed.
    Mr Turnbull said the Vegetation Act was unworkable.
    “But the frustration that’s out there, it’s not just my father, it’s many people out in rural New South Wales that are extremely frustrated, extremely frustrated with the way it’s administered and the act itself, it just needs to change,” he said.
    “If the native vegetation acts aren’t changed in this state, unfortunately this will happen again…READ ON

    worth noting:

    11 Mar: ABC: Sarina Locke: First project to apply for carbon credits from the Government to not clear native vegetation in Queensland
    As debate rages in Queensland about land clearing, one farmer in the Maranoa district west of Roma plans to get carbon credits for avoiding it…
    In the last auction in November, Queensland graziers were big winners earning income with savannah burning projects, with 21 graziers in the Cape York region securing $36 million, planning to prevent the hottest savannah fires.
    But none so far have been paid for the Carbon Farming Initiative for “avoided deforestation”.
    Leaseholders in the western districts of NSW have snapped up those projects, securing an estimated $300 million from the Federal Government to not clear their land.
    It had been an easier issue to prove in NSW, where a paper trail exists showing landholders were given permission to, but chose against tree clearing.
    Queensland has been a different story, as no such “permits to clear” have existed…
    The Wilderness Society has just completed a carbon dioxide study which shows the surge in land clearing in Queensland threatens to derail the Federal Government’s global commitments to reduce greenhouse gases by 26 to 28 per cent by 2030…
    Green Collar chief executive James Schultz: “I think this is a great example of using economic incentive to drive land use change…


    • #

      This land clearing legislation was brought in by “Little Jonny Howard”at the behest of the UN.It had nothing to do with the environment and every-thing to do with “Agenda 21.


  • #

    simply headlined “Tree Clearing”.
    Larissa gets two “stratospheric” quotes:

    14 May: ABC Landline: Tree Clearing
    PIP COURTNEY, PRESENTER: Tree clearing is a divisive and contentious issue which pits farmers against green groups. Now it’s reared its head again, this time during the federal election campaign. It’s usually a state government issue, but the federal Labor Party has vowed to introduce tough new national restrictions if elected as part of its new-look climate change policy. The surprise announcement has many farmers worried, as Marty McCarthy reports…
    LARISSA WATERS, GREENS SENATOR: That heartbreaking footage of bulldozers knocking over vast swathes of habitat and trees really brings home to people what’s at stake here. The bulldozers are back in Queensland…
    LARISSA WATERS: The rate of land clearing in Queensland is at stratospheric levels. It’s gone massively back up and this is a huge concern for the climate, for the plants and animals that rely on that habitat…
    LARISSA WATERS: The rate of land clearing in Queensland is at stratospheric levels. It’s gone massively back up…
    MARTY MCCARTHY: As part of its climate change policy, Labor is proposing a climate trigger in Commonwealth environment legislation. It would allow the feds to step in when the states can’t or won’t.
    BARNABY JOYCE: Now, most farmers are having enough trouble dealing with state vegetation laws. The Labor Party’s number one policy for agriculture I’ve seen thus far is they’re gonna bring in federal tree clearing laws, so you’ll have the state tree police and you’ll have the federal tree police. And what that means is people are going to feel isolated, they’re going to feel under siege…
    MARTY MCCARTHY: 400,000 head of cattle rotate through the saleyards here at Roma each year. That’s $327 million worth of stock.
    Cattle are fetching record prices and the industry is booming, but farmers fear Labor’s plan threatens their bottom line.
    ANTHONY HYLAND, LIVESTOCK & PROPERTY AGENT: It’s Labor’s way or or no-one’s way and I think they need to find a different approach to come back to Queensland and NSW, wherever it may be, to the country people, to maybe just take that time to listen…
    MARTY MCCARTHY: Farm lobby groups say that since 1999, there have been 19 changes to Queensland’s tree clearing policies. But as the pressure mounts to curb greenhouse gas emissions, the heat – political and environmental – is rising…


    • #

      This could be a good thing, the Federal Gov will have to pay compensation. The States don’t, that’s why this has been driven via the States. Few $billion in property right stolen from landholders – can’t understand why people are upset/sarc. The biggest insult in QLD is the way the poputlation centers in the south east corner have been made exempt.

      [This comment was caught by the spam filter. Sorry] ED


  • #

    Sorry but IMO all the locals around Six Flag deserve everything that happens to them. They have the elected Green idiots they were free to choose, they voted and got a steaming pile of waste matter.

    See –
    and also

    Let this be a warning to all, do not live in an area where the population is a higher number than the total sum of it’s IQ.


    • #

      Isn’t this just another case of NIMBY? I remember a similar thing when wind turbines were being built near Daylesford, the protests were astounding. Saving the planet didn’t seem to matter.


  • #

    So, what’s the definition of futility?

    The company projects that the initiative will eliminate approximately 215,000 tons of CO2 emissions over 15 years

    You know, the total CO2 emissions from Bayswater in, umm, eight and a half days or so.



  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Six Flags used to know what their job was, providing an interesting and challenging break from daily life. But, “…used to…,” is the situation for so many these days. My respect for them used to be high. They knew how to build a roller coaster that was worth the price of admission and the long drive to get there, just for the thrill of every drop. They were masters of the art.

    Now they want to save the planet, a planet that doesn’t even need saving. The two are not compatible, solar and roller coasters.

    My respect for Six Flags is now down the drain. Is there no one left who can resist jumping on the climate change green bandwagon?

    Fortunately trees will grow somewhere else eventually. They’ve managed to survive for millions of years and I don’t doubt that they will continue to thrive, Six Flags notwithstanding. But a firm grip on what your job is, once lost, may never be regained. And this is the real tragedy of this green joke. It diverts attention from the useful to the wasted and no one even recognizes that it’s happening. One more good organization bites the dust.

    TonyfromOz has the reason why this is so futile and since he says it better than I can, I’ll just refer you to him.


    • #
      Roy Hogue

      I like a wooden roller coaster, a Woody, that makes me feel like I’m taking my life in my hands to ride it. They had one of the best of the kind, Psyclone, smaller but fast and a little rough. I loved the thing. And then they decided to take it out. I think too many people complained about the roughness or possibly someone did something stupid and got hurt. And these days your own stupidity is the responsibility of Six Flags just as it was for MacDonald’s when a woman bought hot coffee, got in her car, put that open cup of coffee between her legs on the seat and got burned.

      When you ride the roller coaster you’ll find out it’s “hot” just like the coffee. But no one forced you to get on the thing or to buy the coffee.

      Personal responsibility, we barely knew ye. We must now save the planet. 🙁


      • #

        Why not capitalise on such folly?, create an Angry Birds ride where the patrons wear pink pig costumes and flaming birds are launched at them while they ride solar panel type cars, it’d be a hoot!

        Don’t fret Roy I’m sure we can fit your woody in there somehow.


        • #
          Roy Hogue


          I’m sure you could come up with something absolutely smashing. But there will never be a substitute for the good old fashioned all wood construction roller coaster.

          Unfortunately they are their own worst enemy because their maintenance burden is so high compared with the all steel coaster. They are a very endangered species like the steam locomotive was in the 1950s. The only steam running anywhere anymore is whatever some group of largely volunteer workers lovingly takes care of and runs for the tourist attraction because they love the steam locomotive and the era it represents. Only a scant few are making money at it. And soon the woody will be in the same shape. You have to realize that every morning before starting operation someone has to walk every last inch of track on the woody looking for everything from loose nails and bolts to more serious things like structural fatigue, outright broken support members and rails coming loose. And every last bit of it has to be fixed before the coaster is opened to the public. The all steel jobs have similar potential for trouble but the probabilities are so much smaller that there’s almost no comparison. Besides which, you cannot build the loops and other wrinkles that are now so popular with coaster fans, so that’s a double whammy for the woody.

          The funny thing about the all steel jobs is that everyone of them I’ve ever ridden has been just as rough as the woodys are. And yet with much more rigid construction materials you would expect they could be a lot smoother ride. Go figure.

          I like the flying solar panel idea. Maybe with enough power, like the F15, which was a heavy clunker of fighter about which they said, they prove that even a brick can fly if given enough engine power. So see what you can come up with. But don’t pretend it’s a woody. 😉


          • #

            Coming from a structural fabrication background I’d say more rigid equals more feedback for energy transferred though movement/vibrations unless effective dampening can be applied, but then you will get increased maintenance replacing the dampening components due to increased forces.

            The old car triangle law: Fast Cheap Reliable, you can only choose two.

            “But don’t pretend it’s a woody.”, an excellent headline for my ‘anti-safe schools’ campaign. 🙂


        • #
          • #
            Roy Hogue

            That’s probably why today there are whole engineering firms dedicated to designing and building thrill rides for the amusement park business. I’d rather go over Niagra Falls in a barrel than try that thing. Those inventors didn’t know the first thing about ballistics.


  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    This is an advertising (propaganda) issue for the Park. It has nothing to do with saving the Earth.

    The area involved and the number of trees is the equivalent of a small high density orchard.

    Go to the following location (Google Earth): 47.232745, -119.935927

    You can use “street view” to look at the trees.
    Use the ruler and calculate the area of some of these blocks of trees.
    The growers can put a new block in, in a couple of weeks.

    I would be more impressed visiting the Park if it had 66 acres of high quality fruit trees, say planted with a nice design, than I would seeing an industrial scale field of solar panels. Actually, they would be a deterrent.
    In 15 years a good number of apples could be grown. That would be a good thing.


    • #
      Roy Hogue

      This is an advertising (propaganda) issue for the Park. It has nothing to do with saving the Earth.

      True. It’s a, “Me too,” attempt to have green credentials and probably a long term shrewd move because “Green” impresses your customer base these days and is a competitive advantage. Or at the very least it removes a competitive disadvantage.

      However, if you’ve been to a Six Flags or other theme park you’ll immediately notice that everywhere there’s pavement with strategically placed planters growing colorful flowers and shrubs. Trees are spread around for shade but the emphasis seems to be on the colorful vs. the tree which is only green and blooms once a year and may not even have spectacular flowers, whereas the flower beds can be dug up and new plants put in easily that bloom at whatever time of year it happens to be.

      Fruit trees aren’t going to be on their agenda, as useful as the fruit might be.


      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        … whereas the flower beds can be dug up …

        Do you realise how much CO2 that releases? A lot of carbon gets sequestered in the subsoil, not only in dead plant matter, but also by the mosses and lichen and fungi that thrive in the subsoil environment.

        I am also told that a tree sequesters as much, if not more, carbon in its root system than it does in its trunk, branches and leaf system.

        I presume that, when a tree gets cut down, the carbon in the root system remains, trapped, underground, although I have never heard an environmentalist mention that fact.


        • #
          Roy Hogue

          No doubt it’s a lot of CO2. But don’t we all know it was never about the “carbon” in the first place?


    • #
      M Conroy has a good aerial shot of the area, part-way down the page.

      40.136999, -74.421793 are the actual G-Earth coordinates. 47.232745, -119.935927 puts you in Washington State, not New Jersey.


    • #

      John F. Hultquist June 24, 2016 at 2:03 am

      This is an advertising (propaganda) issue for the Park. It has nothing to do with saving the Earth.

      That is but the bright frontend. The solar panels could be erected (at lower cost) above the existing more than 90 acres in usless parking lots 6 flags at that location. The backside application is to clear more (now wetland) for more profit! Check out the money under the table in all directions.


  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Steve Milloy over at junkscience would not refer to this trend as Green Utopia, not even with the question mark. He calls it what it is, Green Hell.

    And the best it’s doing for anyone is lining the pockets of those who can manipulate politics to be in their favor.

    Yesterday someone came to the door and my wife went to see who it was. She naturally asked, “Who’s there?” A man’s voice responded with the name of some environmental services company. My wife’s response to that was, “We didn’t call you.” A very embarrassed pitchman had to apologize for bothering us and tuck his tail between his legs.

    What in the world is an environmental services company? Do they do oil changes and break adjustments on the environment maybe? Or do they sell solar under the guise of being a service to the environment? I’m almost sorry she didn’t invite him in for a chat so I could find out what they really are. Almost sorry…


  • #
    M Conroy

    Maybe that’s really why this polar bear is so sad. All those poor trees, whacked down in the prime of their life, just so the watermelon-meanies can have sparkly sun-catchers to power their iPhones and jungle-carts.


  • #
    Rud Istvan

    Six Flags Amusement Parks are normally open to 10 p.m. Guess this one will be closing early for the sake of sustainable rollercoasters.


    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Perhaps to never open again …?


    • #
      John in Oz

      If they were really concerned with the environment and reducing CO2 they would close down the park and leave the trees in place.

      Isn’t the current green push for reduced power use, not just replacing the power source?


  • #

    Now if Six Flags was really worried about C02 instead of an irrelevant greenie PR headline, they would shut down to stop all that C02 being expelled by people traveling to and from their complex.


  • #

    In ‘saving the planet’,the Greens,
    Would resort to the foulest of means,
    And think forests’ destruction,
    Brings CO2 reduction,
    Through replacement by solar machines.


  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    Will the company receive financial support to do this, in the form of cheap loans, subsidies or tax breaks?

    If so, on a simple business level, maybe it makes a LOT of sense. You see, they get cheaper energy, some green kudos and, after ten years or so when the solar installation is busted/obsolete/failing to deliver enough energy (surprise!), they now have 66 acres of land that is no longer forested and so there’s no reason why it can’t be developed, eh?

    This looks like a win/win/win for the park owners. Gotta love these Green schemes. They always work perfectly, don’t they?


  • #

    A Green Utopia for Australia as it prepares for stable climate … We’re Saved!

    NSW to double existing solar farm capacity with four new plants approved

    Not a tree in sight as photo shows!
    ~ ~ ~
    Science! Solar Panels cause stable climate:

    “Here’s a more fair way to paint the situation: Electric utilities are using outdated technologies that poison our air and destabilize our climate.”
    . . .
    Solar panels stabilise climate is laughable.
    Clearing trees for said solar panels?


  • #

    doesn’t say what “exit poll”:

    24 Jun: UK Telegraph: Live: EU referendum results live: Brexit campaigners concede defeat after exit poll
    Farage tells Telegraph: ‘Remain will win with 52 per cent’…
    Asked if he thought the poll might fall 52 per cent/ 48 per cent in favour of Remain he said: “That sounds about right. Who knows?
    “We could all be in for the most extraordinary surprise – we were last year. That is my sense of it.”…
    “The Newcastle result is the first shock of the night. This counting area – one of the referendum’s largest – was expected to come out much more strongly for Remain. JP Morgan, one of the largest and most influential investment banks, expected 66.8pc of the vote for Remain. The actual margin of victory was much smaller, with only 51pc voting to stay in.”…
    Ukip leader Nigel Farage has told the Press Association he thinks Britain has voted to stay in the European Union based on “what I know from some of my friends in the financial markets who have done some big polling”…


  • #

    11.35pm Exit polling is ‘split’
    A little ray of hope for the Brexit camp, with The Spectator’s James Forsyth tweeting this:
    Tweet: “A Leave source tells me that, for what it is worth, the polls by the financial institutions are split on what the result is”…
    9.21pm: The tension will be greater than normal general election nights because the major broadcasters have not commissioned any exit polls over concerns about accuracy…


  • #

    Betya they still stay connected to the grid.

    You know, just in case.

    (More likely mandated by law)



  • #
    David Maddison

    I assume the park will not be connected to the grid to show that it’s truly “solar powered”?


    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Does the US have any “truth in advertising” legislation? Just curious …


    • #

      “I assume the park will not be connected to the grid to show that it’s truly “solar powered”?”

      That would be nice. Can they afford the batteries?

      Rereke Whakaaro June 24, 2016 at 11:19 am

      “Does the US have any “truth in advertising” legislation? Just curious …”

      Not really, when only promoting destination, location, or climate, as in real estate! 🙂


  • #

    same Live Tele link – LATEST UPDATES:

    24 Jun: UK Telegraph: Michael Wilkinson: Live: EU referendum results live: Early votes give huge boost to Brexit chances
    12.41am: A Labour rebellion in the north east?
    Tim Stanley explains why Labour insiders will be worried about the north east results so far. ETC…
    12:37AM: Sterling slides after shock EU referendum results buoy Brexit hopes
    The City has come alive to the possibility of Brexit.
    A larger than expected turnout for Leave in Newcastle, and a much heavier Brexit win than anticipated in Sunderland have knocked the pound heavily against the dollar…
    Joe Rundle, of ETX Capital, says: “The pound is plummeting as Sunderland votes heavily for Leave. Markets are very nervy at the moment as the polls – and the markets – could be wrong. The Sunderland result has definitely altered the tone of the evening and markets are getting very choppy.”…


  • #

    24 Jun: UK Express: EU REFERENDUM RESULT LIVE: Huge LEAVE vote in Sunderland as Farage stays bullish
    SUNDERLAND and Swindon voting massively to leave the EU has boosted the Leave campaign, despite Nigel Farage’s initial indications that he had conceded.
    By 1am the OUT campaign were narrowly ahead about 51% to 49% – but the crushing result in Sunderland indicated the prospect of a massive north – south rift…


  • #

    updates Tele page:

    1:10AM Kettering votes to LEAVE
    Remain 39%, Leave 61%

    1:08AM The party’s over in Brussels
    ​Matthew Holehouse, in Brussels, says things have turned sour at the Funky Monkey bar.

    The party’s over in Brussels. The Funky Monkey, an Irish pub next to the European Commission HQ, had been packed when polls shut at 10pm, and officials were in high spirits as Gibraltar declared at 96 per cent for in.

    But as Remain were dealt two heavy blows in Sunderland and Newcastle, the mood suddenly turned sour. “F—!” shouted one official. Others had tears in their eyes and headed for the door. At half past one local time, the TVs were turned off, and staff trudged home. Over the road, lights were burning all over the Berlaymont HQ. At 10.30am Donald Tusk, Jean-Claude Juncker and Mark Rutte will meet to digest what it all means for Europe.

    1:05AM London turnout lower than expected
    The weather has had an effect on turnout in London, the pollster John Curtice says.

    Could that affect the Remain side who are hoping for strong support from the capital?


  • #
    Turtle of WA

    I received a brochure from the Socialist Alliance during the week. Very entertaining.

    “A 10 year transition to 100% renewable energy”.

    I laughed and laughed and laughed.

    What about night time guys?


    • #
      el gordo

      The ALA have been denied a TV spot, which hints of censorship, Warwick Hughes is running their ad.


      • #
        David Maddison

        The advert was also already paid for. Newspapers won’t take ALA ads either, including an ad that was already paid for. It took a lawyer’s letter to get the money back. Venues have also been cancelled which were already booked and paid for.


  • #

    Tele update. ***love the BBC tweet. reminder – Scotland was supposed to vote Remain:

    Live: EU referendum results live: Brexit most likely outcome says leading pollster
    2:18AM: Turnout lower in Scotland than expected
    A Labour source has told The Guardian that they blame the SNP for a lower than expected turnout…

    2:17AM St Helens votes to LEAVE
    Remain 42.0%, Leave 58.0%

    2:15AM Latest forecast: Leave to win
    Another forecast just in from the experts at the University of East Anglia – things are definitely shifting in favour of Leave:
    Predicted probability of Britain Remaining: 0.03
    (33 of 382 areas reporting.)
    Predicted vote share for Remain: 47.5 percent.

    2:14AM Pound dives as City reckons with Leave probability
    Sterling is heading ever lower against the dollar – on track for its worst losses against the US currency in at least the last three decades.

    ***2:11AM ‘This has gone.. Leave to win’
    A tweet from the BBC’s political editor Laura Kuennsberg:

    2:09AM LATEST: Leave now favourite on betting market
    Leave has now become the favourite on Betfair.

    2:01AM Swansea votes to LEAVE
    Remain 48.5%, Leave 51.5%
    This is very interesting. We were expecting Swansea to vote to remain by about 55 per cent.


  • #

    should have said Scotland was supposed to vote BIG for Remain. most likely they will vote Remain, but by lower percentage than predicted.


  • #

    Funny, but it reminds me of the old Joni Mitchell Big Yellow taxi song. You know the one:

    They took all the trees
    And put them in a tree museum
    Then they charged the people
    A dollar and a half just to see ’em
    Don’t it always seem to go,
    That you don’t know what you’ve got
    ‘Til it’s gone
    They paved paradise
    And put up a parking lot

    Interesting, no?

    Commercialism in the name of Greenism.


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    51 minutes ago…yet Sky had it close in their previous tweet 2 hours ago!

    Prof Michael Thrasher preliminary forecast as things stand for @skynews:
    Leave 56%
    Remain 44%

    24 Jun: Yahoo7: Melissa Hill: BREXIT: Pound slumps as bookies tip Leave to win UK’s Brexit vote
    Sky News Professor Michael Thrasher predicted Leave would head the vote by 12 points (56-44) if things continued as they were.
    A fuller picture is not expected to emerge until this afternoon as counting continues through the night in the UK…


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    BBC – 2 minutes ago
    More areas declare for Leave
    • New Forest, southern England
    • Sheffield, south Yorkshire
    • Great Yarmouth, Norfolk
    • Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire
    • Crawley, West Sussex
    • Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria
    • Halton, Cheshire
    • Monmouthshire, Wales

    The pound is now down nearly 7% on the day against the dollar

    posted 14 mins ago, BBC continues the spin for Remain, and Laura Kuenssberg, who tweeted earlier that ‘This has gone.. Leave to win’, returns to the Remain narrative.

    24 Jun: BBC: EU referendum: Scottish results show strong Remain support
    Scotland looks set to vote in favour of the UK staying in the EU – with every council area so far backing Remain.
    With 26 of the 32 council areas in Scotland having declared, Remain was on 62% and Leave 38% north of the border.
    Glasgow voted by 168,335 (67%) to 84,474 (33%) in favour of Remain, although turnout was relatively low.
    But results in England and Wales have generally been much better for Leave so far, with the race across the UK neck-and-neck…
    Analysis by Laura Kuenssberg, BBC political editor
    Several months ago, the Leave campaign didn’t have much hope that they could get anywhere close in a short campaign.
    They characterised themselves as the plucky underdogs, in with a shout, but certainly the real outsiders.
    But, in part by using that status, indeed building a narrative of the people versus the elites, they have got themselves to a position where they might end up on the winning side.


  • #

    Tele update – Guardian & UEA conceding:

    Live EU referendum results live: Brexit most likely outcome say pollsters, betting markets and Labour
    Latest: 51.6% Leave 48.4% Remain

    3:42AM Labour now assume Leave win
    Labour is now working on the assumption that Leave is going to win, a party source has told The Guardian.

    The newspaper reports that Labour HQ is weighing up whether Jeremy Corbyn should call for David Cameron’s resignation in the event of a Brexit, but senior figures are reportedly saying the move “may prove unnecessary” as Mr Cameron may resign anyway…

    3:23AM Leave reaches 6 million votes with 51.3% of vote

    3:15AM Leave has 50.7% share of vote so far

    3:10AM Probability of a Remain win? ‘Zero’
    The experts at the University of East Anglia have just posted another update to their forecasts.
    Chris Hanretty, reader in politics, writes on his blog:

    “My predictions continue to be much more pessimistic for Remain than the betting markets, though they seem to be in between estimates from Michael Thrasher and JP Morgan.
    •Predicted probability of Britain Remaining: 0
    •(81 of 382 areas reporting.)
    •Predicted vote share for Remain: 47.1 percent.
    •(90% prediction interval: 46.1 to 48.1 percent)”

    3:09AM ‘Cameron is toast’


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    Tele update 3 mins ago – HOORAY FOR BRITAIN!

    3:55AM ‘Biggest uprising since Peasants Revolt in 1381’

    Our chief political correspondent Christopher Hope puts the referendum into historical context.

    The 2016 EU referendum is set to the biggest uprising against the people who run the UK since the Peasants Revolt in 1381.

    Britain’s bosses, politicians, church leaders, sports stars, bankers, economists and celebrities told the people to vote to Remain in the UK.

    And (by the look of it now) the people sent back a massive V sign. Democracy indeed.


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    The BBC is now discussing the ramifications of the 52% leave win.


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    David Maddison

    Note that the Brexit vote doesn’t legally oblige the Government to leave the EU. They could choose to ignore the will of the people and probably will.


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    Very cute. “Saving” all that CO2. I wonder if we can get an accounting of the CO2 expended in the mining, manufacture and transport of all the components of the steel and glass array. Surely the amount of fossil fuels burned to create so much steel and glass far exceeds the amount of “savings” to be expected by unplugging from the grid.