JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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It’s “The Fright before Christmas”. Can we scare the kiddies?

Book, Santa, Slimate change, Alarm,

What could make climate change more real for the kiddies than to get rid of Santa and drown the deer. No more presents, little ones!

Inspiration from  Tim Blair. who writes: If you enjoy making small children cry – and who doesn’t? – then Fairfax has the perfect Christmas gift idea.

An Australian scientist has written a new children’s book, just in time for Christmas, that weaves the impacts of climate change into a story about Santa Claus, his reindeers and an evil billionaire.

Children's book, climate change, global warming, Santa

Because billionaires are always evil. It’s important to teach kids that only nasty people get rich.

Author Dr Ian Irvine, who has been a scientist for over three decades, first came up with the idea of marrying Christmas and climate change together for his eBook The Last Christmas, The North Pole is melting! two years ago.

Dr Ian Irvine is a specialist in the management of sediments, which may explain why he doesn’t seem up to date with sea ice trends.

“The ice at the North Pole isn’t very thick and over the last 30 years or so it has been getting a lot thinner, it is shrinking.

“It used to cover millions of square kilometres but now there is much less than that because of climate change.”

The story focuses on the littlest reindeer, Vixen, and her challenge to save Santa’s village and workshop from billionaire villain Mr Sneer who wants to steal Christmas for himself. In the background of the story, the ice at the North Pole slowly melts away.

Awkwardly the ice in the Arctic is not going along with the scare program. It’s only slightly below average for this time of year.

But don’t let the facts get in the way:

Arctic sea ice extent, 2015

Tell the kiddies that somehow Santa and the reindeer survived 1959 when submarines from the US Navy surfaced at the North Pole. (They even did it in winter too).

 

 Arctic, Sea Ice, 1959, 1962, Thinning ice, submarines, climate change.

You can read excerpts here, where Vixen, Dancer and what not struggle through predictable sentence structure and plodding conversation.

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245 comments to It’s “The Fright before Christmas”. Can we scare the kiddies?

  • #
    Truthseeker

    Facts? Facts? We don’t need any stinking facts …

    said every climate alarmist, all the time …

    464

    • #
      Peter Miller

      Cults and facts rarely agree.

      If you have to do the following, then you are wrong:

      1. Manipulate raw data on a grand scale to ‘prove’ your cult’s beliefs are correct.

      2. Forecast ever-increasing doom and gloom to the faithful in order to keep your coffers full.

      3. Ignore all inconvenient facts and instead rely on future scenarios for which there are no precedents in history.

      4. Refuse to debate with those who have opposing views for high handed reasons, but in reality because you know your beliefs will be torn to pieces.

      5. Use unscrupulous, science-challenged, left wing, politicians to advance your cause.

      6. Promote unreliable expensive alternatives to those which are proven, cheap and reliable.

      7. Be prepared to take draconian actions, which will likely impoverish your economy, knowing that these actions will make little or no impact.

      8. Routinely exaggerate supposed problems and deceive the public, using the classic Marxist justification that “The end justifies the means.”

      624

      • #

        UTOPIA: A place forever below the horizon.

        GREEN JOBS: A Government/NGO job searching for utopia, (one of Santa’s Elves?)

        161

      • #

        Unfortunately for all in this hidyhole, the Chinese govt has seen the retreat of the Himalayan glaciers and permafrost and got shared errr riceless!

        They will ensure the Paris Agreement will be kept, don’t you worry about that!

        The globe is warming, kiddies, and we have to do something about it.

        Too bad, Jo!

        116

        • #
          James Bradley

          Another shaggy dog story from Miriam.

          30

        • #
          AndyG55

          Remind us how many COAL -fired power stations China has recently and the even more they have planned.

          Sorry, scruff, but emissions from COAL will continue to climb for several decades at least…

          and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you or any of your motley propaganda rabble can do about it. :-)

          41

        • #
          Peter Miller

          Wow, that is so inciteful.

          I am so glad the Chinese have agreed to the immediate cessation of construction of all new coal fired power stations. You have to hand it to the Chinese, they really do care about global warming/climate change.

          50

      • #
        King Geo

        Peter Miller – my god Sherlock Holmes & Poirot will be impressed. You have succinctly exposed the crime of the millennium – all nuts & bolts of it. Sentence for the crime? Suggestions welcome.

        30

    • #
      Greg

      Talking of facts, how about looking at what Arctic sea ice has been doing since the 2012 OMG minimum:

      http://climategrog.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/ct_ice_area_short_anom_nh_2015_final.png

      Oops, is that why the alarmists have suddenly shut up about the Arctic and have waving and shouting that we should worry about the Antactic in 1000 years time?

      https://climategrog.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/on-identifying-inter-decadal-variation-in-nh-sea-ice/

      142

  • #

    Just tell the kids there is no Santa or Easter Bunny anymore, as the Left got rid of them because they were politically incorrect. Nothing to do with climate change.

    362

    • #

      The left can’t get rid of Santa until he serves his purpose selling CAGW. What other almost non-denominational and mythical bringer of presents lives at the north pole and bothers traversing such a hostile environment to bring material wealth? The left don’t have any cultural icons of their own, so they need to co-opt Santa for the meantime.

      I’m sure the irony of the ‘consumerism’ of the Christmas season being spoiled by the consumer culture of the CO2 emitting wealthy western nations is plausible only to a socialist or a child. After all, elves are ‘green’, and Santa’s factories are not in China powered by coal, but in the north pole powered by floating wind turbines (not solar because it is dark 6 months of the year). I wonder if lefties rip the Made In China tags off of their toys in order to hide their hypocrisy from their children – if they bothered to have any of the little carbon emitting monsters?

      151

      • #
        Greg

        Hey, if the fat git in a red coat who’s hundreds of years old and can fly through the sky on a magic sleigh, I’m sure he can walk on water.

        Where’s the problem?

        90

      • #
        Greg

        Hey, if a fat git in a red coat who’s hundreds of years old and can fly through the sky on a magic sleigh, I’m sure he can walk on water.

        Where’s the problem?

        60

      • #
        Bulldust

        The hand-wringing bed-wetters had issues with Holland’s version of Santa (Sinterklaas) because of his side kick (Zwarte Piet):

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas

        Typically Black Pete (Zwarte Piet) was played by a black-faced caucasian and his role was to dole out punishment to the naughty children, spanking them with a roe (a bundle of twigs). They even re-wrote the reason for the black-face, from being Moorish to having soot on his face from climbing down chimneys to bring prezzies to the kiddies (in their clogs, presumably). Bad kiddies were supposed to get a lump of coal instead, but clearly that won’t do these days.

        Sinterklaas needs a PC overhaul it seems… he is waaaay out of line. Heck, he travels around in a steamboat, which would be fossil-fuel powered. The more I think about it the worse it gets… :D

        Goodbye childhood friend (I lived in Holland between the ages of 5 and 18) … a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. More like a parallel universe these days.

        50

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Irvine should be more concerned about the contaminated sentiments coming out of his nasty sewer for a mouth, what is it with these extreme alarmists and upsetting children?

    263

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Remember in 2013 the actor Jim Carter (Carson, Downton Abbey) playing Santa for Greenpiss telling kids next year Christmas probably wont come because of climate change, well good news kids Christmas is here again with the real Santa reporting plenty of ice and snow.

      321

      • #
        Yonniestone

        And as for that dropkick Andrews wanting to ban Christmas carols in schools, stop projecting your worthless outlook of life onto the young who have the right to choose what they believe in when they’re good and ready, you Proclaimers reject looking twerp!

        322

      • #
        RB

        There was only 4 white Christmas days in the 20th C in London. Dickens was inspired by the 8 in a row when he was growing up in the early 19th C but, apparently, the Thames didn’t freeze over (thick enough to build a bonfire on) because of a LIA.

        From QI

        but they had to add

        Our last white Christmas was in 2010 when there was snow on the ground at 83% of stations – the highest amount ever recorded – but snow or sleet also fell at 19% of stations. Climate change has brought higher average temperatures over land and sea (which reduces the chances of a white Christmas) but the natural variability of the weather will not stop cold, snowy winters happening in the future.

        40

  • #
    PeterPetrum

    Amazing – many will remember that last year (or the year before – time moves so quickly when one becomes a senior citizen) Greenpeace started a scare that Santa would not be around because there was no more snow at the North Pole.

    Standing at the barbecue with my son-in-law on Christmas Eve, I remarked that I thought doing that to kids was despicable. He turned to me and said “they have to learn about pollution”. I started to explain that CO2 was not a pollutant when he held up both hands (one with the cooking tongs) and shouted “I don’t want to discuss it!!!!!”

    So I didn’t – not then or up to this day. There is no point. However, I am subtly re-educating my grandkids, whenever I get the chance – “you know that carbon dioxide is a plant food don’t you? Well, the more we have the better it is for our planet and, guess what, in you whole lifetime that plant food has been increasing but the temperature has not! Isn’t that wonderful!”

    533

    • #
      Carbon500

      Out of interest Peter – has your son-in-law got an arts or science background?
      His unwillingness to have a chat is from what I’ve seen by no means unusual.
      Nothing – (shall we say!) – raises the temperature within seconds as much as a discussion over ‘dangerous man-made global warming’.
      I refuse to call it ‘climate change’.

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      • #
        PeterPetrum

        No, Carbon 500, he is in advertising arising from a fairly ordinary academic performance that would not have led to Uni (except for teaching!). However he does come from a family with an academic mother and very strong left wing tendencies! Our other daughter, though, is the Professor of Astrophysics at a major US University and she is worse! Treats her father (a scientist before she was thought of) as some sort of scientific retard and she point blank refuses to talk to me about “climate change” because it is quite obvious to her that I know what I am talking about. C’est la vie!

        351

        • #
          Carbon500

          Thanks Peter – I take it your son is perhaps impressed by scientists, and is willing to accept at face value what is promoted as truth – particularly in view of the relentless barrage of horror stories the media pushes forward. However, scientists vary in quality, and there are ‘ego trippers’ as well!
          Your daughter’s point blank refusal to discuss the issue is puzzling, although it seems quite a few academics have this ‘locked’ mindset. It’s not what I would call scientific.
          I find myself wondering how many have become lost in a world of computer modelling, fractional temperature changes and so on, yet haven’t read any historical accounts of weather conditions in their country or any others. The ultimate question is I suppose – do the fractional temperature changes about which so much is made really make a scrap of difference in the real (i.e. not ‘modelled’) world, and does this justify spending billions?

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        • #
          Manfred

          …and she point blank refuses to talk to me about “climate change” because it is quite obvious to her that I know what I am talking about.

          PP, may I humbly volunteer (and as you doubtless know) that as an astrophysicist, your daughter fully understands the uncertainty and the counter-arguments around the climate polemic.

          As a cultural meme though, hasn’t it become a new-age religion? (Bruchner).

          Instead of encouraging resistance, it propagates discouragement and despair. The ideology of catastrophe becomes an instrument of political and philosophical resignation. What is surprising is that the mood of catastrophe prevails especially in the West, as if it were particular to privileged peoples. Despite the economic crises of the last few years, people live better in Europe and the United States than anywhere else, which is why migrants the world over want to come to those places. Yet never have we been so inclined to condemn our societies.

          The Christian apocalypse saw itself as a hopeful revelation of the coming of God’s kingdom. Today’s has nothing to offer. There is no promise of redemption; the only hope is that those human beings who repent of their errors may escape the chaos, as in Cormac McCarthy’s fine novel The Road. How can we be surprised, then, that so many bright minds have become delirious and that so many strange predictions flourish?

          Belief (in anything, in something) fulfills an instinctive human need.

          I had cause to thank a professorial presenter at a recent conference I attended for her key-note presentation at a post conference drinks meet, but wanted to express concern at her allusion to ‘climate-change’ at the end of her address. I pointed out the 19 yr hiatus (and referenced my point with, McKitrick, R. (2014) HAC-Robust Measurement of the Duration of a Trendless Subsample in a Global Climate Time Series. Open Journal of Statistics, 4, 527-535. doi: 10.4236/ojs.2014.47050.).
          Madame Professor rapidly disappeared, saying we would have to agree to disagree. She kept out of sight and as far away from me as physically possible for the balance of the evening, even though the numbers at the function were relatively small, and this was in itself quite a difficult feat to accomplish.

          They get bound up in the meme. It’s beyond science. Instinctively they know damn well its indefensible and that they hold a double-standard in terms of their practice as scientists. They also find that embarrassing.

          131

    • #
      Wayne Job

      Peter, That comes under the argument heading of “shut up he explained”

      151

      • #
        PeterPetrum

        I know, WJ, sad, is it not. If people were prepared to involve themselves in a reasonable discussion, they may not emerge convinced, but at least they would have something to think about. Again, it just demonstrates that this is a quasi religion, and no apostate will be tolerated.

        270

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          One of my relatives is a greens voter ( oh the shame of it…. ;-) ) and another high up in HR. Both seem to have swallowed what the Americans call “the Liberal Kool aid”. The first relative is highly intelligent and works at a uni, but rather self absorbed. The other is married to a very down to earth bloke, but seems to have issues discussing anything that goes against the country’s slide into the Leftist moral vacuum. There seem to be a lot of people who I think deep down are very distressed by how society is going and they hair-trigger respond to this distress and fear by doing a fingers in ears and saying “shut up just shut up” – but this is different to Leftist belligerance.

          Speaking bluntly – I think many people inside are plain freaking out inside now – they also can tell we are heading for something big ( i.e. a coming war [snip, sorry, we don't have the moderation resources 18C and all- J] and IMHO society is basically starting to struggle along many different lines.

          I think what happen is people have only so many CPU cycles to absorb information, and when those are used up, they struggle with anything that might require significant rework of their ideas. I blame smart phones – the rotten things have turned people into a bunch of “must respond now” addicts, and the problme is that being a sceptic is a very disruptive influence to the slick MSM dominated society, and as such people just cant cope with any disruptice technology or idea, bar a few who are willing to stick it to the Leftists.

          Ironically , we also got onto other topics people consider “exteme” and as I laboured to point out to the second sister, some things that the ultra-nationalists in Australia ( or other parts of the world ) might sound extreme, but in fact might also be accurate, and at this point in time ( while I didnt endorse the ultra nationalists at all, far from it ..) that sometimes the old saying of “truth is truth even if your enemy teaches it” applies.

          The brilliance of the Left is the ability to sound convincing ( even if they are plain wrong ) and using “the sneer” to mock people who desire to take them to task. And its easy to sound convincing when the MSM and the majority of allegedly “learned” institutions have been hijacked or deliberately messed with also spew the same nonsense. We just have to keep plugging away.

          Peter I applaud the fact youre teaching your grandkids the facts, keep it up. Even if the father is a drip, the grandkids will eventually work it out.

          80

        • #
          PeterS

          It’s not just a religion – it’s also a cult, and a dangerous one at that. The irony of it all is that if the same principles and guidelines were applied to the AGW crowds as are applied to anyone else, they would be prosecuted by now as deliberate scam artists at best or terrorists at worst and be put behind bars for a long time if not life. Perhaps one day they will be but I won’t hold my breath.

          100

    • #
      PeterS

      Better tell your kids too that soda drinks are a no no as they are full of CO2 “poison”. I bet they would believe it too. Too many people are so gullible they will believe almost anything.

      60

    • #

      I started to explain that CO2 was not a pollutant when he held up both hands (one with the cooking tongs) and shouted “I don’t want to discuss it!!!!!”

      Peter, I’m not a senior citizen and am only 33, and I can tell you that this type of behavior from relatives and friends is quite common, and very concerning. It’s not just disrespect for people they consider out of their generational window, it is the type of intolerant and disrespectful reaction you would receive from indoctrinated cult members (ie, “My head hurts, I’m not supposed to tolerate your POV”). If I had a dollar for every time this had happened to me, I would be a very wealthy person, and it is very concerning.

      “In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” – Mark Twain

      To stand up against this CAGW monster is the new patriotism. This is the largest threat human freedom has faced in recorded history. I’ve been saying this for six years since I was 27yrs old, and people would literally laugh at me, most saying “Don’t be ridiculous, global warming is just something politicians give lip service to, just ignore them and it will go away.” Imagine George Washington hiding in his barn wishing the red coats to disappear, as if it were only a bad dream: This is a real life nightmare!

      80

    • #

      Hey Peter, and the rest of the Nova commenters, if you really want to see how group think can/IS being institutionalized and technocratized ( made up word :P ), make sure you watch this below 7 minute video clip.

      This is how countries willingly become group think cults controlled by a ruling hierarchy. It is probably the scariest thing I have ever seen, and it’s now official Chinese Communist Party agenda:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI

      Imagine how more acute the problem of the son-in-law with the hands in the air and tongs will become, if social media and government/United Nations are united like this into a mandated Citizen Rating System (going live in China currently, and will be mandated by 2020!!!). It makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

      Points downgrade for being an heretical CAGW denier?
      Make sure y’all watch the above video to the end!
      Only in China!?! … or would the Left dare implement such a thing in the western nations?

      40

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        When society degenerates to that point, they already know who the “heretics” are….

        Emotive simpletons are a dime a dozen, and cheap cannon fodder at that.

        I wonder if they will run up to sceptics in the street and hand them a green feather?

        30

  • #
    TdeF

    Cartoons lost their innocence when Daffy Duck picked up a shotgun and chased Speedy Gonzales. Apart from the inappropriateness of the image for children, daffy has wings, not arms, not hands and not fingers. Reindeer do not walk on their hind legs or operate equipment, unless the newest PCs are Hoof Proof. No opposable thumbs for grasping anything either. It must be frustrating to be a herbivore. Yes according to Madagascar, lions prefer sushi to zebra. Really.

    As for using reindeer to scare children about Man Made Global Warming, Mr Sneer, the evil billionaire behind it all might well be Ex Vice President Al Gore. He is the one who has benefited most. World fame, a totally inappropriate Nobel Peace prize and multiple houses, jet aircraft and incredible wealth. Perhaps the Inconvenient Truth is that he is Al Sneer, billionaire opportunist?

    Mind you the reindeer are well named, but have you heard about Rudolf the Brown Nosed Reindeer? He sat up the front with Santa.

    252

  • #
    Carbon500

    The plain fact is that the doom-mongers are way ahead in the propaganda and publicity game.
    Give it all the stamp of authority from, say, a university lecturer (any discipline will do) and off we go.
    I wrote a letter to my local newspaper a couple of weeks ago pointing out the lack of terrifying warming, and gave figures to back up what I was saying.
    As is always the case, another reader wrote in to let everyone know that we are in fact facing a planetary crisis. He produced no figures to back up his comments (not a surprise), nor did he comment on my data. Writers who ‘believe’ never do – including my Member of Parliament here in the UK, and my former Member of the European Parliament.
    My view is that it’s going to take some concerted publicity to get past such entrenched beliefs. How many billions (name your currency, it’ll be billions anyway))have been wasted globally?
    Some colourful pictures, a message with punch, plenty of advertising – and cash – are needed. Nobody listens to reasoned argument it seems – until they begin to actually question and look into it all in more detail for themselves.

    272

  • #
    TdeF

    It was not long ago that Everest, the North and South poles and even the middle of Africa were mystery places. In ancient times the gods lived in the clouds, both Mary and Jesus soared up into the clouds and the Gods of Greece lived on Mount Olympus. Heaven itself is still pictured in the clouds. Myths were easy then, before aircraft. Now Olympus and even the North Pole is a helicopter ride. So why does a scientist want to torture children with reality? You cannot build on the North Pole but that was always true.

    The very idea of destroying people’s childish fantasies is something only a scientist would do, but then there is no CO2 driven runaway global warming either, a science fantasy. It might be a vengeance story. If warmists cannot have their fairy stories, neither can the children. More selfish than elvish.

    273

  • #
    AndyG55

    Given the current position of the AMO, the Arctic sea ice level is actually quite high.

    http://s19.postimg.org/7c5hbcs6r/amomean.jpg

    The AMO is only just starting to turn, yet the sea ice is near “average”

    What is average/normal anyway? A short part of the rising section of the AMO cycle?

    Biomarkers indicate that during the first 3/4 of the Holocene, there was often zero summer Arctic sea ice.

    283

  • #
    James Murphy

    At the risk of seeming as though I am defending this publication (which I’m not, by the way), I have to say Ian Irvine has been one of my favoured authors for a long time. I like his style, and his abilities as a ‘fantasy’ story teller. Each to their own, I guess.

    His books targeted at adults are are certainly not known for their lightness and cheer, so a young children’s book in the same style is indeed, beyond the pale, and really, he should be quite ashamed of it.

    242

  • #
    ScotsmaninUtah

    Dr Ian Irvine is a specialist in the management of sediments, which may explain why he doesn’t seem up to date with sea ice trends.

    Jo this is very worrisome.

    Irvine has a PhD and he should know better.
    I would expect this type of sensationalism from persons with Reverend in front of their name, not a Scientist.

    It is very disappointing to see this degree of oppertunism

    174

    • #
      ianl8888


      … Irvine has a PhD and he should know better …

      Noble cause corruption, of course. Saving the planet is just so awesomely seductive

      Power attracts the worst, corrupts the best. Those who have gained it have done so by picking it up roughshod from the gutter

      131

    • #
      Annie

      ScotsmaninUtah, not all people with Reverend in front of their names are bullying fools who go in for sensationalism. I found your comment quite annoying actually. There are some decent people who act with altruism; not, of course, the ones you tend to hear about.

      131

    • #
      Dariusz

      This is what left on his Facebook:

      “Scaring kids with melting ice? Look at the latest arctic ice cover and tell me how much it melted?
      From what I see you know little about the earth science. Suggest to do geology 101 and perhaps some sense will come back to you.
      Dariusz Jablonski
      Geoscientist”

      A typical government employee. 4th grade nobody. A sediment management specialist? I thought that was part of a geologist curriculum that he never passed and hence a new job description?

      212

  • #
    John Shade

    A scummy piece of work, and that’s just the book.

    142

  • #
    RoHa

    But Father Christmas lives in the Finnish part of Lapland.

    90

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      If the arctic ice is really melting then the solution is obvious. Santa should take up residence in the Antarctic – no shortage of ice, no sign of melting/shrinkage (except in the Peninsular) and best of all, no nation allowed to develop it.

      92

  • #
    Victor Ramirez

    I thought Santa lives in New Orleans?

    41

  • #
    Fenbeagle

    A very Merry Christmas to JoNova blog, and may it continue to boldly go along the voyage towards sanity. Along with all those that follow with interest.

    https://fenbeagleblog.wordpress.com/2015/12/18/merry-christmas/

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    • #
      Annie

      Merry Christmas! Fenbeagle

      70

    • #
      tom0mason

      A happy humbug Fenbeagle, and a preposterous New Year!

      40

    • #

      Substitute X for Gore. Only Al Gore can be a planetary savior.

      :P Merry Goremass heretic bloggers :P … and a Happy New Carbon Audit Solar Revolution (CASR for our UN acronym junkie friends).

      Remember, if your New Year’s Resolution isn’t to reduce your Carbon Footprint in half, then you are a sinful big oil funded good for nothing denier, who deserves no friends and probably incarceration in a small dark ubliete.

      Also, don’t forget to buy your loved ones Carbon Offset Certificates for Goremass instead of presents, and remember to make these relatives feel really guilty for having been born :P I promise that it will make you feel way more virtuous than those other pesky people who feed and give time and money to the actual poor at Christmas.

      40

  • #
    Wayne Job

    I think Tim Blair at the Telegraph had the best suggestion for this scientist. “he should be boiled in cat piss by the elves” some one else suggested or Kiwi cav sav apparently it is similar.

    113

  • #
    ScotsmaninUtah

    Author Dr Ian Irvine, who has been a scientist for over three decades…

    a very long time to have gathered knowledge and then be seduced by politics.

    For skeptics the more we know, we realise the less we know.

    Apologies for the generalization.

    151

  • #
    Rick Bradford

    “It used to cover millions of square kilometres but now there is much less than that because of climate change.”

    It still does cover millions of square kilometres, dickweed…..

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  • #
    Dariusz

    When I escaped communism for the first 3 years almost every day I had the same dream. I was suddenly back being chased be the security police and would always wake up just before being shot in the face. This is a common dream of the totalitarian regime escapees. I never had a dream like this when I was inside. It was only when I finally was free my fear had surfaced.

    I wonder how many kids will relieve their fears about climate crap later on when they are adults. Are they going to be normal, fearful, demented, wanting to terrorise humanity, judge people like us and execute?
    History teaches us that indoctrinated kids are merciless killers; Cambodia, Africa, one of the most recent examples.
    Under communism is was common for the kids to snitch on their parents. The left knows exactly what they are doing ie training future green killer elite.

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    • #

      History teaches us that indoctrinated kids are merciless killers

      True. The next alarmist generation will be like Village of the Damned, mixed with a little Rage Virus, then add in the [snip because its a topic we don't have resources to moderate. Sigh], and the future’s looking pretty rosy for planet Earth init? Hollywood should make a movie called 24 Years Later about the survivors of this coming Zombiepocalypse, though since all of Hollywood is infected it wouldn’t get funded. Instead we get B-grade movies about rising sea levels and environmental collapse, most as bad as Kevin Costner’s Waterworld.

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    • #
      John Robertson

      Good question.
      Google Utube, Tiny Tim, The Ice Caps are Melting.
      For I suspect the children involved in that performance, are those quivering leaders of the Cult of Calamitous Climate.
      Poor little children, poisoned in 1960s, still quivering in 2015.

      42

    • #

      History teaches us that indoctrinated kids are merciless killers

      Trouble is, kids spend 5 hours a day at school and 19 at home.
      The bulk of the “indoctrination” takes place through the media, and is directed at maintaining plutocracies like the USA.
      This is much more powerful and pervasive than anything alleged to be happening in schools.

      The left knows exactly what they are doing ie training future green killer elite.

      And the Right doesn’t.
      Often there are unplanned consequences, such as the Cambodian genocide.

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      • #
        Another Graeme

        alleged to be happening in schools

        Nothing alleged about it, left wing indoctrination, especially of the green persuasion, is absolutely positively taking place in our schools and university teaching programs. I recently left my degree 2 subjects short of graduation due to chronic health problems and what I witnessed quite honestly scares me. All the usual progressive liberal causes are pushed with little (usually no) consideration of conservative views. Given the average age of most undergraduates the indoctrination was mostly unchallenged. Unfortunately for my lecturers this middle aged little black dark was a pain in their proverbial. I was more than happy to be the sole contrarian, and while I frequently embarrassed the lecturers and tutors, on a number of occasions I had students quietly thank me for providing points of views they hadn’t considered.
        I realise anything I say is purely anecdotal so have a look at the new syllabus documents and see how many times sustainable is mentioned or how the science syllabus has an emphasis on feelings . Also happy to provide citations from required readings that identify “the family” as one of the leading institutions that hinders education (possibly Friere from memory).
        This is very real and cause for concern.

        ps. reason for leaving was degeneration of an old spinal injury, still maintained an average score a few marks off a HD average despite the drugs.

        pss. Peter Petrum

        fairly ordinary academic performance that would not have led to Uni (except for teaching!)

        sadly your assertion is well founded. While I met plenty of bright young people who knew the course work well and could write a good essay, their critical thinking skills did not extend to being able to confidently challenge coursework. Mmm, or maybe like climate science, they were just to damn scared for fear of repercussions.

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        • #
          The Backslider

          This is why we chose to come to Finland rather than Australia. At least here my children will be taught to think.

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          I am hoping universities will collapse under the propaganda and people will realize that the teaching was so watered down, it was no longer effective e.g. if engineering students are big on “up the workers” and short on practical skills, once the power grid collpses for lack of qualified engineers, this will have its natural self limiting consequences.

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        AndyG55

        I’m guessing that numbers left school when he was 15….

        …. and continued never to learn anything except how to peel potatoes.

        His life’s sad existence.. reduced to NOTHING but a number.

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘The bulk of the “indoctrination” takes place through the media…’

        That’s true and with the climate change debate its patently obvious…

        ‘… directed at maintaining plutocracies like the USA.’

        China is beefing up Marxist education in schools, this is the new capitalism, apparently.

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      • #
        Winston

        Numbers,

        So let me get the thrust of your argument.

        LBJ- Democrat president, “Big Society” leftist, drops bombs galore on Cambodia

        Pol Pot- arch NeoMalthusian Marxist, ie extreme leftist and his merry band of genocidal henchmen fill the vacuum caused by LBJs bombing policy and like so many good Marxists before them embark on a radical depopulation program to restart the clock of history at “Year Zero”.

        That begs the question:

        What on earth has that got to do with conservatives exactly? We absolutely abhor revolutionary change, while leftist love and crave it, and hang the consequences. We conservatives also prefer maintaining a semblance of traditions of the past while evolving those areas that require refinement gradually over time, hopefully not to ruin the fabric that binds the culture in the process. That is why they are “conservative” – conserving the good aspects of our civilisation and not bowing to the “change for change sake” mentality, while acknowledging that some attitudes necessarily will undergo a gradual evolution over time.

        I think you have rather demonstrated the point rather than countered it.

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        • #
          Winston

          And not to mention that you acknowledge the media is a massive and all-pervasive influence on children’s attitudes, and is with very, very few exceptions, almost entirely leftist and none too subtle about subliminal and overt messaging to children to shape their opinions and attitudes, often not in a positive way.

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          • #

            and is with very, very few exceptions, almost entirely leftist

            translation – “disagrees with me”.

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            • #
              Winston

              Believe it or not Numbers, I am quite happy with a broad range of opinions and attitudes being shown to both adults and children, even those that disagree with me. What I object to is subliminal messaging, manipulative narratives infused into otherwise “innocent” entertainment without actually making an evidentiary case, and dominance of one kind of ideological message to the exclusion of others, especially one dressed as “worthy” and “noble”.

              You see, I believe the only reason that leftist ideas have gained any traction is by dominating completely the media narrative, monopolising influence and bullying their way through ostracising and ganging up on those who might disagree with them, no matter how well reasoned and rational some of those contrary opinions might be. I would be against anyone of any political persuasion having that dominance because I would prefer the truth to win out, whether it conformed to my ideas or not, and the only way for that to happen is if everyone can speak their mind without fear or favour.

              Take climate change as an example. If there was open debate, if dissenting voices were not shut down, if people didn’t lose tenure or livelihood for merely speaking their mind, and if so many people weren’t intimidated into silence, AND the evidence was even remotely compelling, then I would be open to believing CO2 emissions might be a potential threat to mankind. Unfortunately, there is no open debate, and that is entirely due to leftist bullying and media manipulation by like minded cultists, because deep down inside every lefty is a man or woman terrified of their own stupidity and fearful of anyone who might counter their preconceived notions with rational arguments for which they have no counter.

              You are projecting, friend. Skeptics like myself desperately want an open debate. We are denied it because those who wish to propagate a deceit are fearful of being exposed. The only one who wants a one sided debate, and an echo chamber of fellow believers, is you.

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            AndyG55

            You have made it patently clear that you absolutely no interest in actually learning anything about anything.

            If you showed even the slightest hint of learning, maybe people would treat you with a bit more respect.

            But franking.. you just don’t deserve any.

            You have made it clear that you are ignorant.. and want to remain that way.

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        RB

        Trouble is, kids spend 5 hours a day at school and 19 at home.

        And 6-8 hours sleeping, 2-3 hours playing and hours watching TV.
        None of these activities punish the kids if they didn’t follow and swallow.

        The bulk of the “indoctrination” takes place through the media, and is directed at maintaining plutocracies like the USA.

        The bulk of the media are pissing this sort of rubbish into the kiddies’ ears!

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      • #
        Dariusz

        Cambodian genocide was caused by the communists. Even the Chinese and Vietnamese commies could not stand it. The environmental communism was ever a threat to them where everyone went back to the caves resulting in 2 mln dead.
        Read history a little bit more carefully before you come with your crap. If you don,t know what you are talking about, as you clearly don,t, listen to people that have gone like me through the North Korean version of the nightmare (20 years).
        But hang on, you know better as I hear your hastened breathing in your own echo chamber. I guess you were the hippy fighting against the last vestige of civilisation in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. But they you lost interest when people were drowning escaping communism and trying to avoid pirates. You conscience is clear.
        I am sorry to disappoint you, but you are responsible for the killings fields. A person without conscience and this is YOU!.

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        • #

          I am sorry to disappoint you, but you are responsible for the killings (sic) fields

          Well there you go!
          In May 1970 wasn’t too far away (across the border in Long Khanh province), but I always thought I was looking for VC during operation Concrete.
          Obviously, I am also capable of time travel, as the slaughter in Cambodia (triggered by the US bombing) happened from 1975 to 1979.
          Still, this delusional mindset is par for the course for some who post here.

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          • #
            Winston

            You tried to suggest that “the right” were responsible for the Cambodian genicide, then when it was pointed out it was almost entirely due to the mindset and beliefs of the Left, you try the straw man that people are suggesting that you personally are responsible. No one is remotely saying that.

            The leftist mentality, of which you are but one example, is however responsible. If it weren’t for Marx, if it weren’t for revolutionaries, and if it weren’t for genocidal communists chasing a supposed utopia, then it would not have happened. Hitler, Mao, Stalin – all cut from the same extreme leftist cloth.

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            • #

              Hitler, Mao, Stalin – all cut from the same extreme leftist cloth.

              Yeah, Winston – that was how we ended up in the debacle that was Vietnam.
              The old myth – “These Commies are all the same”.
              Trouble was, the Vietnamese were (and had been for fifty years) fighting a war of national liberation.
              Go visit the country now.
              What you won’t see is Marxist theory in practice.
              What you will see is free enterprise and entrepreneurship.
              History has made a goose of that anachronistic meme.

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            • #

              You tried to suggest that “the right” were responsible for the Cambodian genicide,

              I did not. Read my post.
              The responsibility lies with those in power in the US administration in 1970.
              There’s a clear pattern here.
              1970 – the Americans destroy what is left of Cambodian institutional structures in the bombing, when they indiscriminately unleashed 2,750,000 tonnes of ordinance in Operation Menu.
              1975-1979 – Millions of Cambodians die in the genocide.
              2003 – The Americans invade Iraq on a pretext and systemically destroy all institutional infrastructure after over 500,000 tonnes of ordinance was used.
              2014 – 2015 – ISIS defeats the Iraqi army and take over more than half of Iraqi territory and vast areas in Syria.
              There’s a clear historical pattern.
              The sad part is that the American military has learned nothing in 50 years.
              To make this situation relevant, the prime holdouts against prudent action on AGW are the same people and institutions who twice in the last 50 years have blundered into situations that their arrogance prevents them from comprehending, and tragedy results.

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              • #
                OriginalSteve

                I cant comment on Cambodia, I do know that the Iraq war wasnt designed to be actually won, same as vietnam. The war was designed to re-order the country to allow it to be reorganized into new spheres of influence. There is a book called “the Pentagons new Map” which describes the advance planned geopolitical re-organization of the middle east.

                The americans are just the tool of choice, the real aim is soemwhat different to what people might think they know.

                Overall, the main aim is to remove all tyrants, despots and dictators that stop the worlds countries being fully integrated with each other. The next phase after full integration would be a global lock-down.

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  • #
    tom0mason

    I wonder if the kiddies will be told –

    The Antarctic is a large unmoving continental land mass, very cold high elevation areas, and mostly covered in ice surround by highly mobile, very deep oceans.
    In contrast the Arctic polar ice-cap is a mobile ice mass floating in the relatively slow moving sea, and surrounded with near-by land.

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    What’s the bet that this book gets added to the primary school reading list, and perhaps used to ‘teach kiddies spelling’. From curriculum, to curricudumb!

    Then the pro-CAGW teachers can claim that it isn’t ideology that’s being taught, but rather it is only being used to teach sentence formation and reading skills.

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  • #
    richard

    the Arctic in the 19th century-

    “Accounts from 19th-century
    Canadian Arctic Explorers’ Logs
    Reflect Present Climate Conditions”

    https://seagrant.uaf.edu/nosb/2005/resources/arctic-explorers.pdf

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  • #
    Martin

    Why the hell they put ‘next year’, why not put ‘this year’ instead.
    I suppose 35 years isn’t enough, but 36 is.

    Why not more people see through this kind of propaganda, its everywhere those day…

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  • #
    rah

    I put this idea forth elsewhere but this thread seems an appropriate place to do it again.

    Fact is that Santa has an Army of competent elves that work for him. He has the most developed intelligence apparatus in the world; witness the fact that he knows if each person in the whole world has been naughty or nice through out the whole year! He has a navigation system that is superior to any other known since he can find every hovel in the whole earth and even the transients that are on the move. He has a sleigh that is faster than any other vehicle known to man that transits through the atmosphere and advanced STOL capability no matter how heavy the load. He has FLIR emitted from the nose of his lead Reindeer Rudolph. He has superior infiltration capabilities to any known special operator able to access and egress without being detected until after the fact to all places no matter how advanced their security and doing so all over the world in a single night.

    And we’re supposed to believe that the highly variable conditions in the Arctic where he lives are going to cause him a problem? Sheesh, some “scientists” sure are dumb.

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    Arild

    An oldie but classic from Greenpeace. Children of the Corn or What I learned from the Kmer Rouge

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY7875_rv1s

    The url did not show in the preview the first time I tried. Maybe this time

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  • #
    Mikey

    Problem solved, just tell kids that polar bears eat reindeer.

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  • #
    Richard Barnett

    For those interested in the submarines in the photos. Check out this link:

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08578.htm

    40

  • #
    old construction worker

    An Australian scientist, Author Dr Ian Irvine, who has been a scientist for over three decades, has written a new children’s book……. because billionaires are always evil.

    “It’s important to teach kids that only nasty people get rich.”

    Here in the States we have a certain Female politician which used to be head of the State department that fits the above statement.

    40

  • #
    John Robertson

    Well what do you expect?
    Read the profile, Irvine has been writing fiction for decades, nice gig it secured his govt job.
    I hope his open fiction is better written than his professional works.

    What a lovely title; “Management of Sediments”
    Good enough for government, for sure.

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  • #

    No, we should always tell our children the truth.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘…intrinsic (unforced) atmospheric variability.’

      Very nice, I’ll borrow it.

      40

    • #
      RB

      The first truth is that there are very different estimates of the sea is extent in the NH and one shows that 2014 was the highest Sep ice extent since 2005 and 2015 has the highest early Dec ice extent. (and this comes from a propaganda institute. Look at the “Please notice”).

      The second is that there were estimates before 1979 and evidence that the Arctic was usually ice free in summer for long periods before Karl Benz got bored one afternoon.

      And this tells me that quite a lot of the spiral is in dubious calculations

      1979–1986, SMMR record showed a slight decrease in the areal extent of Arctic sea ice [Parkinson and Cavalieri, 1989], but the decrease became far stronger and more convincing with the addition of the first decade of the SSMI data

      30

    • #
      Dariusz

      The only reason why the US were bombing Cambodia is because the North Vietnamese were attacking South Vietnam thought that country. It was not South Vietnam of the US that was the aggressor. Classic lefty projection.
      TEACHER? Shame on you!

      30

      • #

        North Vietnamese were attacking South Vietnam thought (sic) that country.

        There was no such thing as “North Vietnamese” and “South Vietnamese”. They were all Vietnamese.
        The bulk of the people fighting in the south were coconut people (Southerners).
        Some were exiles from the north when the country was artificially divided by the Geneva Accord of 1954 which inter alia stated the following -

        1. A 3 miles (4.8 km) wide demilitarized zone would be set up on each side of the demarcation line
        2. French Union forces were to regroup to the south of the line and Viet Minh to the north
        3. There was to be free movement of the population between the zone for three hundred days
        4. Neither zone was to join any military alliance or seek military reinforcement
        Elections for reunification were to be held in July 1956, but they never took place, because the parties could not agree on how they were to be supervised.
        Had they gone ahead, there is a pretty good chance that Ho Chi Minh would have finished up President, as he was by far the most revered figure in Vietnam at the time. He was a nationalist first, and a Communist second. He saw Communism as an organizational structure to achieve Vietnamese independence.
        Ignorance of Vietnamese history in this country (and the USA) is breathtaking.

        03

        • #
          Dariusz

          Everyone knows that the Vietnamese are the same. The rest of you are stuff i won,t even bother as I have to go to work and pay taxes for you. Read Richard Nixon books and learn.
          Also teach me a little about East Germany and west Germany something that experienced you never know I might learn something from a TEACHER.
          I may learn that the Germans are the same people.

          20

        • #
          rah

          Fact is the roots of the war in Vietnam were grown during WW II. The US OSS actually helped Ho who was a guerrilla leader during the Japanese occupation. Once the Japanese were ousted Ho fought the French which tried to retake control of their former colony.

          Per the agreement of FDR and Churchill made upon entry into the war known as the Atlantic Charter http://americanhistory.about.com/od/worldwarii/a/atlantic_charte.htm and signed by all of the allies (referred to as “The United Nations”)that were at war or ready to declare war on the the three nations of the Tripartite (Germany, Italy, and Imperial Japan)the intent was to restore all colonies to their original holders with the idea that those nations would administer the eventual establishment of those colonies as free and independent states.

          They US thus backed France in it’s attempt to reestablish control over their former SE Asian colonies and supplied the French to plenty of WW II surplus arms.

          00

    • #
      Dariusz

      Judging by your responses your version of the truth is different to mine. If you were in Vietnam then you should know that simple truth that North Vietnam was the aggressor, that every time there was a cease fire civilians were escaping south not north. Captured NVA rarely wanted to go back. In fact that were more than happy to stay in the south. The same happen during the Korean War. But I guess you would tell me that the North Koreans were not the aggressors?
      And You are a teacher and Australians payed taxes for your job? SHAME.

      30

    • #
      The Backslider

      Yes Mr Number, we should tell our children that “record” sea ice loss is gauged over a statistically insignificant period and the truth that climate models such as used in the study you linked to are wildly inaccurate and unreliable.

      20

  • #
    jeff in Canada

    People like this just never quit. What a dippy story line! The author should book a trip to the Canadian Arctic. Have a look at ice covered Hudson Bay, Davis Strait. Talk to the locals in Iqualuit, Nunavut to find out more about conditions in the Arctic and oh yes get the real story on the polar bears.
    Merry Christmas everybody ! To the Aussie kids no worries.. there is lots of snow. The North Pole and Santa are just fine!

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  • #
    Peter C

    The submarine is USS Skate which surfaced at or near the North Pole on 17 March 1959, the first submarine to do so.
    http://leurenmoret.info/_Media/pic-23-ssn-skate-5962-globa.jpeg

    Dr John Hunter, in his manic blog titled “What’s wrong with Still Waiting for Greenhouse” claims that the photo could not have been taken at the North Pole on that day.

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  • #

    People like this just never quit. What a dippy story line! The author should book a trip to the Canadian Arctic. Have a look at ice covered Hudson Bay, Davis Strait. Talk to the locals in Iqualuit, Nunavut to find out more about conditions in the Arctic and oh yes get the real story on the polar bears.
    Merry Christmas everybody ! To the Aussie kids no worries.. there is lots of snow. The North Pole and Santa are just fine!

    People like this just never quit. What a dippy story line! The author should book a trip to the Queensland Outback. Have a look at drought declared Longreach and Winton. Talk to the locals in Unandangi, or Bedourie to find out more about conditions along the beef road, and oh yes get the real story on the roos and wallabies.
    Merry Christmas everybody ! To the Canuck kids no worries. there is record drought in outback Queensland. The Channel Country and the north west are stuffed!

    Neither this post or the text used from the previous one has anything to do with the topic. This blog resembles an echo chamber.

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    • #
      James Bradley

      2468getanothersoapboxmate,

      Or you could visit a gallery of Australian outback paintings…

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      • #

        Or you could visit a gallery of Australian outback paintings…

        Completely unnecessary – I work in the outback. I don’t need to look at paintings.

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        • #
          James Bradley

          Oh, that’s great,

          Then you’ll already know that droughts, heat, dust and lefty soapbox beaters are a common historical occurrence.

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          • #

            Then you’ll already know that droughts, heat, dust and lefty soapbox beaters are a common historical occurrence.

            I’ve seen plenty of heat dust and flies, but “lefty soapbox beaters” (whatever they are) are a very rare species west of Betoota, historically or otherwise.

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            • #
              OriginalSteve

              I recall living in the riverina area in the 1970s & 1980s when we’d go to sleep and it was 30C overnight and 38-40C for 2 weeks at a time, then we had cold wet winters and now we have maybe a few more hot days. Winter this year was particularly harsh and averaging lows of below -5C. If global warming were real and credible, we’d see harsh winters stopping. We havent.

              One of the benefits of travelling the world is you get to see a lot of places so you have a good frame of reference.

              Flannery predicted the sydney dams wouldnt fill up again – they did. Too much in fact.

              I think if you live in a rain shadow area or have a drought, then yes everything looks dry and its too tempting to extrapolate that tot he rest of the country. It wasnt that long ago that QLD was flood bound from too much rain……

              CAGW is pure nonsense, and once the temperatire “homogenization” started taking place, it was very clear that the data was being fiddled to suit a predetermined ( false ) outcome.

              As such with CAGW I call BS.

              I think part of th eproblem is when you

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              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Whoops…..please ignore last line in previous post….hadnt noticed the text box had scrolled down.

                A classic case of Caffeineus Deprivitus, which I am about to recitfy.

                60

            • #
              James Bradley

              Sorry, 2468,

              That was supposed to read “… and lefty soapbox beaters are a common hysterical occurrence.”

              60

            • #
              Dariusz

              Looking for a lefty? Look at yourself in the mirror. I hope you are the first and the last one in your neighbourhood.
              Do you pay tax or just smoke weed and pretend to be a framer?

              51

              • #

                pretend to be a framer?

                If I want a picture framed, I go down the road to a mate who does a pretty good job for not much.
                never was much good a framing…..

                13

        • #
          AndyG55

          “I work in the outback.”

          Do they grow good potatoes out there ?

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            scaper...

            He lives in Toowoomba…hardly the outback.

            I’ll find out more from an old mate who is the Director of the Australian War Memorial. I suspect this person is a fake!

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            • #

              I’ll find out more from an old mate who is the Director of the Australian War Memorial. I suspect this person is a fake!

              This is pretty revelatory of some who post here.
              Sure your tag’s not “Scraper”?
              This has to be pretty close to the bottom of the barrel.

              Yeah – go and visit the war memorial. Take a look at the Vietnam Veteran’s nominal roll, whilst you’re there.
              Better still – check it on line.

              Then I will accept your apology.

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              • #
                scaper...

                Hehehehehe.

                We will see.

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                Dariusz

                If you are such a hero tell us your name.
                My name Dariusz Jablonski, a survivor of communism watching helplessly commies gloating when North Vietnam army overrun Saigon in 1975. They thanked people like you for snuffing freedom and casing death of millions in SE Asia.
                Where were you in 1975?
                Smoking weed in your environmentally unfriendly piece of crap house?

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              • #

                If you are such a hero tell us your name.

                I am no hero, but if you need my name it is available on the nominal roll.

                Where were you in 1975?

                In 1975 I was a teacher at Xavier Hospital school in Brisbane.
                I was nowhere near Cambodia.
                I have, however, spent some time in Vietnam.
                When I was there in 1970, no Vietnamese had any experience of peace.
                There had been fighting in their beautiful country since the early forties (first the Japanese, then the French, then the Americans, and in 1979, the Chinese).
                When I go back there now, because of the demographic – most are young – very few Vietnamese have any memory of war.

                25

              • #
                James Bradley

                Another w@anker trying to imply military service in ‘Nam by stating – ‘I was in the military’ and ‘I was in Vietnam’.

                30

              • #

                Another w@anker trying to imply military service in ‘Nam by stating – ‘I was in the military’ and ‘I was in Vietnam’.

                No implication, James – statement of fact.
                You can check my bona fides on the Vietnam Veterans’ Nominal Roll.
                Just pop the number in.
                Then, if you have any courage, you’ll apologize.

                13

        • #
          richard

          “Happy to explain why I’m here.
          Back in 1970 I was sprayed with a defoliant which was called Agent Orange”

          I and others spray our green houses with co2, so far so good,

          the Earth has been sprayed with co2 and has been greening for the last 30 years, quite a trend.

          32

        • #
          Dariusz

          What is your name again hero teacher?
          Did you see the mass grave of some 5,0000 in Hue of teachers, government official during the Tet offensive in Hue when Vietcong overrun the citadel for a month. They executed people like you and you defend them?
          You don,t the meaning of teaching and freedom.

          23

          • #

            Did you see the mass grave of some 5,0000 in Hue of teachers, government official

            Yes, spent some time in Hue – beautiful city.
            Atrocities were committed there during and after Tet in 1968.
            Atrocities were also committed at My Lai (1968), 7000 civilians were killed during operation Speedy Express (1968), Thang Phong (1969) and Son Thang (1970).
            There were hundreds of others, but I guess they were OK, because the perpetrators weren’t communists.

            22

            • #
              Dariusz

              Love the way you put 7,000 against My Lai subliminally suggesting that figure against the massacre.
              And the reason I know about My Lai is because the commies were drumming about this for 5 years every day of my life.
              How did I found about 5,000 massacred by commies in Hue was from the “Full metal jacket” book then the movie. I never knew about this until I escaped from the paradise that you apparently aspire to.
              You have not known the world of oppression and poverty. You don,t even know how lucky you are. And you dare to put red thumbs against me? In fact when I like your honesty I put the green mark against your name.

              Last thing the reason why the Saigon official killed Vietcong on the street that was televised around the world was because that young guy just killed a civilian family of 10 and more. I guess you were watching this on TV through the haze drugs and rised your fists in morally high state.
              What is your name again? You did not answer this simple question again. Or you are just a waffling coward?
              Dariusz Jablonski, a saviour of communism.

              01

    • #
      john karajas

      I did field work in the Mt Isa region between late 1971 to late 1974. When I first got up there the region had just come out of a prolonged drought which “was the worst in memory”! Towards the end of my time in north west Queensland (eh!) I experienced the big wet of late 1973-early 1974. During this period the railway line to Mt Isa was washed out by floods in the channel country, the Leichhardt River running thru’ the Isa periodically flooded, and there was even a period of a few days where clouds were so low that Hercules transport planes couldn’t deliver groceries because of the danger of flying into the (smelter) stack.

      1735099: you’re talking through your #*@se, mate! Droughts and floods are routine to outback Queensland.

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      • #

        1735099: you’re talking through your #*@se, mate! Droughts and floods are routine to outback Queensland.

        Show me where I said they weren’t.
        My point has scooted straight over your head.
        Scroll up.
        You’ll note I was responding to Jeff in Canada who posted that snow in the Canadian Arctic was evidence that the ice sheet is not receding.
        Snow is routine in Canada and proves nothing one way or another.

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        • #
          The Backslider

          Jeff posted no such thing. It is you who are posting here saying that droughts are something unusual in the outback. They are not. Watch out when the floods come again, as they surely will.

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    • #
      MudCrab

      Numbers!!! :)

      Good to see your military service is still the defining point in your life. :)

      Question? What has research in outback Queensland got to do with a writing a children’s/YA novel set at the North Pole?

      Are you by any chance admitting that the Artic is actually choccas full of sea ice with no meaningful change in total area and attempting to change the subject?

      Speaking of subjects, like the flag icon. Eureka. The ultimate Australian protest against the government attempting to tax the mining industry. Nice to see you support an industry with less interference from big government. :)

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      • #

        The ultimate Australian protest against the government attempting to tax the mining industry

        Read some history.
        The Eureka protest was directed against power and privilege.
        There was no “mining industry” in 1854.
        There were a large number of disenfranchised diggers who were fed up to the back teeth by being harassed for mining licenses by people employed by a squattocracy who took over vast tracks of land and paid no tax on it.
        Many social justice reforms in the country saw their origins at Eureka.
        Eureka was a revolt of labour against a privileged ruling class.

        04

        • #
          The Backslider

          You are so wrong. I myself was an independent, self employed miner just as the diggers at Eureka were. They had nothing whatsoever to do with “labor” or trade unionism. You have stolen our flag. You are a disgrace to it.

          31

          • #
            AndyG55

            Eureka was all about the individual standing up to those who would control them.

            This is what we do.. we fight against the lies and deceit of those who would try to control.

            You should wake up to which side you are on, numbers. !!

            Start by doing your own research and actually looking and trying to understand, rather than always backing the rabid alarmist brain-washed agenda.

            It is NOT real.

            22

    • #
      RB

      I picked one outback town, Richmomnd. Three of the hottest days for the month out of 12 are before 1920. 8 of them are before 1983. The summer months maximums show now trend what so ever for over 100 years.

      And if you check 1906 Jan, you see three weeks of 40+ but with 2 days over 40 not included, the recorded monthly mean is probably half a degree less than what it really was.

      And if you look at the rainfall for the town, its dry but much more rain than for 4 other years before 1960.

      Are you sure that people out there with a brain actual believe things are much hotter and drier than they ever were?

      60

  • #
    Ruairi

    Santa’s Arctic Home
    The warmists find everywhere warming,
    Alarming the adults all year,
    Then at Christmas they target the children,
    Filling their young hearts with fear.

    The claim that the Arctic is melting,
    Is not what the satellites show,
    But to frighten young children with warming,
    At Christmas is lower than low.

    The warmists don’t mention the cooling,
    Or explain the eighteen year pause,
    As the sea-ice at Christmas keeps growing,
    For the reindeers and Santa Claus.

    172

  • #
    TimiBoy

    Hi Jo. Would it be possible for you to do some digging on records in Adelaide? A lot of hoo ha right now over “hottest eva!” in December, but my memories as a child don’t gel with that. I don’t know how to do the digging, nor do I have the time. Thought it might be fun for you…

    70

    • #
      Bob Malloy

      Tim,

      A good place to start is trove.nla.gov.au: a part of the national library, they have digitised newspaper articles going back to the 19th century. In November when every news broadcast was screaming hottest November EVARRRRR, 5 minutes on trove I found a short article from 1912 when temperatures were similar. The defining point however was that 12 times in the previous 53 years it had been hotter, not bad scorching November temperatures 13 times between 1859 and 1912 or one in every for years Novembers were scorches.

      41

    • #
      RB

      In1887 and 1888 there were 3 days in row but 5and 4 days over39. This was for a cooler site in parklands and the new automated stations seem to add on half to 1 degree so not really a significant record.

      10

  • #

    The sceptics find everywhere cooling,
    Denying the data all year,
    Then at Christmas they softsoap the children,
    Pretending the science isn’t clear.

    They claim that the Arctic’s not melting,
    Despite what the measurements show,
    But to fool young children about warming,
    At Christmas is lower than low.

    The coolists don’t mention the warming,
    Or explain the continuing trend,
    As the sea-ice at Christmas keeps shrinking,
    Till there will be none in the end.

    630

    • #
      TdeF

      Unthinking nonsense. Look at the graph. The Arctic ice right now at Christmas is 5,000km across! What is the problem? It would be a wonderful thing if all the sea ice melted in mid summer and Santa does not actually live at the North Pole. Only his workshops. Elves are seasonal workers too, on 457 visas.

      153

      • #
        TdeF

        In our mid winter, their mid summer, Santa has left a forwarding address of Hawaii where he teaches hula dancing to elves. His reindeer have left a forwarding address of Herd island.

        121

        • #
          TdeF

          I just realised. Of course! The author is an Australian scientist. What a maroon. He really thinks is it summer at the North Pole! His reindeer are actually comparing summer and winter ice extents! A few units of geography would help in a Science degree. At this time of the year much of Siberia, Russia, Canada, Japan, China, and even the US is buried in snow and ice. In the Northern Hemisphere they do not have outside BBQs for Christmas and dress in shorts with Santa in an ice pack. The airconditioners are turned off and Santa’s workshops are humming if only to keep warm.

          142

    • #
      Ava Plaint

      The thumbs up does not imply approval but acknowledges the effort at expressing it, however misguided.

      70

    • #
      James Bradley

      2468getanothersoapboxmate,

      1958-59 Nuclear Submarine USS Skate surfaces in Open Water at the North Pole and then again in1962 with sister ship USS Seadragon.

      18 May 1987 Nuclear Submarines HMS Superb, USS Billfish and USS Sea Devil surface in Open Water at the North Pole.

      The Arctic is regularly an ice free zone – it’s in all the papers at the time.

      143

    • #
      Turtle of WA

      Numbers! How ya going? Haven’t seen you at the Cat for a while. Trolling elsewhere?

      82

    • #
      AndyG55

      1. The Arctic sea ice pretty much exactly how it should be for the position of the AMO cycle.

      2. The AMO has just started to head back down, sea ice will now start to increase.

      3. Current sea ice levels are anomalously high compared to the first 3/4 of the Holocene.

      4. You should stick to peeling potatoes… it seems to be the only thing you know anything about.

      123

      • #

        1. The Arctic sea ice pretty much exactly how it should be for the position of the AMO cycle.

        Arctic sea ice extent for November 2015 averaged 10.06 million square kilometers (3.88 million square miles), the sixth lowest November in the satellite record. This is 910,000 square kilometers (351,000 square miles) below the 1981 to 2010 average extent, and 230,000 square kilometers (89,000 square miles) above the record low monthly average for November that occurred in 2006

        From – Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis.

        3. Current sea ice levels are anomalously high compared to the first 3/4 of the Holocene.

        This is the effect of the anomalies.

        You should stick to peeling potatoes… it seems to be the only thing you know anything about.

        Ad hom abuse – sure sign of someone with nothing useful to contribute to a debate.

        518

        • #
          The Backslider

          The satellite record???? Just how not-far does that go back dummy?

          Historical records clearly show sea ice extent far less than anything we have seen in recent times.

          Sorry sonny, but the current trend in ice extent for both poles is upward.

          123

        • #
          AndyG55

          roflmao..

          You have just proven that you have ZERO knowledge or understanding about Arctic cycles.

          Of course its below the 1981-2000 average.. that’s where its MEANT to be.

          Your puerile propaganda NOAA link is talking only about the NATURAL drop from 1979 onwards, and making stuff up about the effect.

          I repeat, because your comprehension skills seem a bit starchy….
          During the first 3/4 of the Holocene, there was often zero summer sea ice.. and look.. the world is still here.

          And your very presence here is an ad-hom to the intelligent people here.

          That is the ONLY reason you are here, as a base-level troll…… and you know it.

          So please, stop your pre-pubescent whining, its pathetic.

          Now, go back to your potatoes.

          83

          • #

            You have just proven that you have ZERO knowledge or understanding about Arctic cycles.

            I’m not interested in cycles or models.
            You can call it NATURAL if you want, but I’m not sure what difference shouting makes.
            The data is what counts.
            The data shows a decrease.
            Look at the graphic.
            Sorry bout that:-)
            And maybe if you try really really hard you might be able to post a response that doesn’t include an offensive remark.
            Most year three kids can manage that after a bit of practice.

            313

            • #
              AndyG55

              Ok…. Stay ignorant.. keep peeling your spuds.

              82

            • #
              AndyG55

              The data shows a turn-around, just as would be expected from the peaking of the AMO. But, by all means, just keep ignoring the data.

              You obviously do not want to understand, or learn anything… typical troll.

              Ask yourself why you are here, certainly not to learn anything, you have proven that.

              Look at your real purpose, and realise just how childish you are.

              83

              • #
                AndyG55

                Average Arctic sea ice has a positive trend since 2006.

                https://rclutz.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/masie-ann-est.jpg

                Note 2015 has not finished growing yet..

                Growth has been very rapid this year.

                http://s19.postimg.org/5ozd4cqer/dmi181215.jpg

                And the temperatures continue to drop in Arctic circle..

                http://s19.postimg.org/i7k87yl9v/UAH_No_Pol.jpg

                That is what the data shows.. live with it.

                92

              • #

                Ask yourself why you are here, certainly not to learn anything, you have proven that.

                Happy to explain why I’m here.
                Back in 1970 I was sprayed with a defoliant which was called Agent Orange. This was not a one-off incident. We would often see the c-123s with spraybooms extended fly over at low attitude, and then smell a characteristic odour. the chemical was in the soil, in the water we drank, and in our clothes.
                We didn’t notice any ill effects initially, but then my toenails fell off. I didn’t think too much of it as most grew again, with the exception of one which still refuses to grow normally.
                I was young, and hopeful, and not too worried.
                Nor apparently, was the ADF, but they noted it on my discharge papers.
                The US military was trying to kill the growth that the VC was using as cover. they called it “Operation Ranch Hand“.
                They weren’t actually trying to harm the soldiers of their allies, but they did. The end, apparently justified the means.
                They also harmed a lot of Vietnamese. It’s only in the last five years that the rate of congenital deformities in Vietnamese births is beginning to approach the incidence rates in other parts of SE Asia.
                Then a couple of things happened. My first child (a daughter) was stillborn in 1982. A PM revealed that she had a congenital abnormality.
                At the same time I was the principal of a large special school for kids with physical impairments in Townsville. I began to encounter a disproportionate number of children with spina bifida, talipes, cleft palate and hare lip who had been fathered by Vietnam Veterans. I shared the anger and despair of these families.
                Because I had a counselling qualification, I did some voluntary work for the VVAA with these families. Townsville was, and still is, a garrison town.
                I began to research the issue. What rapidly became clear was that the rate of congenital deformities amongst the offspring of people sprayed with Agent Orange was statistically significantly higher than that of the rest of the population. This has been confirmed since in the Vietnam Veterans Morbidity Study.
                So whilst I believe that the AGW threat is over hyped and unfortunately has been used for political purposes, the scientific community is telling us that we need, as a species to apply the precautionary principle, and do something about it.
                This has been met with howls of derision from many with skin in the game, driven by the same kind of arrogance that drove the use of dangerous chemicals in the sixties and seventies. Initially, the scientific community was ridiculed at the time, and accused of being leftist stooges.
                I have lived this, and remember the mindset of those who bore no regard for the environment back then. This was war, after all.
                I see the same mindset reflected here, and the same kind of mindless political rhetoric which seeks to ridicule a rational use of the precautionary principle.
                I will continue to speak and write, using every medium available, simply because I don’t want to continue to see suffering visited on innocent children for the sake of greed and ignorance.
                I am appalled at the abuse directed at any person on this site who dares to disagree with the political correctness fostered by the host and her acolytes. I am also disgusted at the lack of respect for the future of our children displayed here.
                Many of you need to take a good hard look at yourselves.
                The military industrial complex driving the continued exploitation of fossil fuels is exactly the same military industrial complex that sponsored the use of chemicals in Vietnam. These days they have much better PR (as can be observed here).
                If you don’t learn from history, you are condemned to repeat it.

                217

              • #

                Coming from a military background as I do, I have learned a number of things, and perhaps an important part of that was to look as far back into any problem as you could to see if the end cure is actually an answer to the original problem.

                Because of that I think rationally.

                They tell us that this so called problem of CAGW is caused by the emissions of Carbon Dioxide, and that this, umm, problem, has probably a quite catastrophic end.

                So then, going back as far as I can into all this, I wonder why so many of you supporters of this, umm, problem, including you here 1735009, have never wondered why, if this problem is such a dire one, that the powers that be have not immediately shut down the source of those emissions, and then to work on the problem from there.

                But no, all they are doing is finding a way to make money from it, which is all it is distilled down to.

                The fact that NO ONE anywhere has done this, close the emissions down, leads me to the rational belief that the problem has been engineered, not by the military industrial complex, but by politicians and others seeking an excuse to make huge amounts of money from it.

                The have to persevere with that excuse, because there is so much money at stake, and more and more and more are just cashing in on it while the going’s good.

                Please go somewhere else where people will affirm your quasi religious belief, because here, we will argue the point from positions of experience. You guys come and go, probably disheartened by the fact that we actually fight back ….. with reason.

                Tony.

                123

              • #

                The fact that NO ONE anywhere has done this, close the emissions down, leads me to the rational belief that the problem has been engineered, not by the military industrial complex, but by politicians and others seeking an excuse to make huge amounts of money from it.

                This is a variation on the conspiracy theory.
                You know the one – the belief that AGW is a vast Communist/Socialist/Elitist/United nations/world government (choose one) conspiracy, designed to achieve world domination.
                One thing I learned in the military was that if something went bad it was more likely as a result of incompetence than conspiracy.
                The cognitive incompetence revealed by many who post here is staggering.

                211

              • #
                AndyG55

                You are appalled.. you poor little child..

                Did you ever get out of primary school..

                And how the F*** were you ever in the army.

                What happened when someone hurt your “feelings” !

                What a JOKE. !!!

                62

              • #
                AndyG55

                The lack of respect for our children, is lumbering them with nonsense CO2 taxes that will have zero effect on climate.

                Of teaching them consensus, instead of rational scientific thought.

                Of the massive ƑŔÃŨÐ that backs the whole of climate science and is backed by the likes of YOU and the far-left MSM in their attempts to install a global totalitarian agenda.

                Of brain-washing the children with ill-informed propaganda climate leftist junk.

                This is the utter disgust of what you support.

                And you expect to be treated with kid gloves. Cry me a river. !!!!

                And once you have finished your current load of potatoes, go and get some mental help, and get a life.

                And, seriously, wake the f*** up…. the “precautionary principle” was bought in because they knew that couldn’t actually prove a single darn one of their nonsense predictions. Tell me one that has come true.

                As soon as you see someone call on that…..

                …. you know they have lost the argument.

                Take your nonsense elsewhere.

                102

              • #
                AndyG55

                And btw.. we are not the least bit interested in your meaningless history.

                Its obvious all that you can relate to.. that and your number.

                Don’t lose it. you won’t know who you are.

                And if you don’t want to see suffering of children, you need to fight for the cheapest possible energy and fuel.

                Third world countries desperately need a good solid consistent energy, to provide such things as electric cooking , so they don’t have to cook using dung and toxic bark. So they can have plentiful water and sanitation.

                These things can only be developed with regular, reliable energy supplies.

                Then we come to world food supply.. The waste due to using growing lands for biofuel is the most despicable greedy act, pushes up food prices around the world, deletes reserves .. do you support this?

                And please , do remember that the ONLY supply of food for the whole world is one single chemical reaction called Photosynthesis, this requires CO2 and H2O.The levels of CO2 used in greenhouses is around 1000-1500ppm, and the plants love it.. massive growth and abundant produce. The current atmospheric level of 400ppm is still very much on the low side.

                So please, if you really care for coming generations and want to fight the GREED of the leftist agenda, you must push for more atmospheric CO2 and certainly must argue for no taxes on cheap carbon energy supplies that have the massive side-benefit of enhancing the world’s plant life and biosphere.

                83

              • #
                AndyG55

                “for the sake of greed and ignorance.”

                Well.. you certainly have shown that you have the “ignorance” angle covered. !!

                You don’t know.. and you don’t want to know.

                “and more and more and more are just cashing in on it while the going’s good.”

                Yep.. something like 100 trillion on the climate change scam so far.

                Money that could have been spent on hospitals, solid energy supplies (now being blocked by the banksters in the world bank), child protection, the fight against malnutrition in third world countries.

                What a WASTE for zero benefit…. except, of course, to the green socialist rich entrepreneurs.

                It really is disgusting isn’t it.

                103

              • #
                Annie

                1735099; I am sorry to hear about your personal experiences and I can understand your anger that results from this. However, I think you completely misunderstand where skeptics re. ‘climate science’ are coming from and I think you are wrong to equate our worries with what happened in Vietnam.

                70

              • #
                Winston

                Numbers,

                With a story like that, you should actually be a skeptic rather than a true believer because you, more than anyone, should realise that over-confidence in the infallibility and the integrity of science can be misplaced, and governments routinely place people such as you and I in harms way with callous indifference to consequences to us as individuals. And yet, here you are again, spruiking the government line, being led along by the nose by the corrupt and ignorant politicians who you feel betrayed you in the past. And you don’t think the precautionary principle goes both ways?

                Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice……..

                93

              • #
                AndyG55

                In all that meaningless diatribe from numbers at #35.5.1.2.2, he still can’t admit that he is here purely as a lonely selfish troll.

                Sad that he understands so little of himself.

                Comes from being “just a number” all your life, I guess.

                The insignificance must scar deeply.

                22

            • #
              James Bradley

              Actually 2468,

              You are the one posing the alternative hypothesis so until you can prove otherwise the null hypothesis stands that it is natural.

              83

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘I’m not interested in cycles …’

              Sir … sir … the 62 year cycle is well known and cannot be ignored.

              73

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              I know quite a few ex-servicemen – ex british army, ex australian army, ex vets from vietnam. What I do get from them is a sense of a firm grasp of reality. Seen a few who didnt cope so well too, loved the bottle, some died in one….

              I have full sympathy for any kids who suffered from birth defects, use of orange was a pretty average thing to do.
              I knew kids who had ex-nam dads and who also had issues.

              Now – coming back to the CAGW component here – its really simple – the science doesnt back it.

              I dont really care about your background. It might be relevent in understanding comments, however from my persepctive you can either argue the science or you cant. If you cant, sure – have a verbal spray, but you wont be taken seriously.
              I’ve seen so many lefties who are oxygen thieves who are like seagulls – loud, cr*p on everything then take off, contributing nothing except a pile of feathers. What was achieved? Nothing. Was science furthered? No.

              If you want repect, argue the science, with references, but dont waste the sites’ bandwidth if you just want to coat the walls with latrine contents…..

              Were all open to discuss the science, which is why we’re here.

              Have a think about it.

              22

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Sorry – this comment above is for 1735099

                20

              • #

                Were all open to discuss the science, which is why we’re here.

                With respect Steve, that is bollocks.
                The “science” is usually grabs from denialist blogs.
                The bulk of posts are political, not scientific in genre.
                Try something – classify the comments as scientific references or political comment – do a count.
                You’ll find that the latter outnumber the former.
                There’s a further classification – that of posts abusing anyone who doesn’t toe the party line.
                There is actually very little “discussion of science”.

                22

              • #
                AndyG55

                You have not present one single piece of science the whole time you have been here, just empty BS rhetoric.

                You don’t know any science, and you totally ignore facts and figures that are presented because you don’t have the intelligence to comprehend them.

                Hope they have a nice big pile of spuds for you to work on today…
                …. give you something else to do with your hands.

                22

            • #
              Stephen Garland

              1735099, Firstly your pain is valid (based on the information you have presented) but I have some questions for you.

              What if the demonisation of carbon dioxide is a new ‘agent orange’ and you’re drinking the waters again? (does ignorance matter if you take it to the grave?)

              Will the extensive use of renewable energy systems reduce fights for power and the establishment of military systems?

              22

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              1735099 – lets try something a bit different here – you say all the site is reguritated denialist stuff

              I am by default ( as I haven seen scientific proof of CAGW ) labelled as a “denier” , now without playing BS mind games, I’m not a “denier” – I’m assessiong the science, and based on my assessment of the science, someone has decided that someone who looks atthe science and says CAGW isnt supported is a “denier”.

              Ok – happy to accept some aribtrary pointless label – but a label means nothing – the science means *everything*

              Can you put forward a scientific point ( with references ) for discussion?

              32

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘However, the 500-mb height anomalies roughly double in strength over much of the Arctic when forced by ice concentration anomalies. Furthermore, the NAO-like response increases linearly with the aerial extent of the Atlantic ice anomalies.’

          I’ll need more proof that the AO/NAO oscillations are influenced by the amount of sea ice.

          61

      • #
        AndyG55

        Your lack of comprehension precedes you.

        I’ll repeat.. do try to understand this time.

        1. The Arctic sea ice area is pretty much exactly how it should be for the position of the AMO cycle.
        The AMO has just got over its peak, and is starting to fall. Anyone with any knowledge of the system would expect the Arctic sea ice level to be at the bottom of its NATURAL CYCLE. and that is exactly where it is. The period from 1980-2010 was the upward leg of the AMO.

        http://s19.postimg.org/7c5hbcs6r/amomean.jpg

        2. The AMO has just started to head back down, sea ice will now start to increase.
        (it is in fact already doing so.)

        It will be fun to watch you Arctic panickers over the next few years as it continues to climb.

        3. Current sea ice levels are anomalously high compared to the first 3/4 of the Holocene.
        (Zero summer sea ice was pretty much the normal for much of that time.. and look the world is still here)

        Now I know they don’t teach you these things in potato-peeling school.. but please, try to exercise what little brain matter you have left.
        Now do please try to get a basic understanding about what is said.

        Now, dry your tears, and get back to your potatoes.

        85

        • #

          Now I know they don’t teach you these things in potato-peeling school.. but please, try to exercise what little brain matter you have left.
          Now do please try to get a basic understanding about what is said.

          When you get past the personal abuse, it’s obvious you’ve made a number of unfounded statements (opinions).
          Post the citations if you have any.
          Otherwise I’ll be forced to conclude that you have absolutely no idea what you’re on about…..

          413

          • #
            AndyG55

            When you get passed you junior education and understanding and can comprehend the facts, you might have some idea about the reality of Arctic sea ice.

            You have again shown that you don’t have the intelligence of a spud.

            I’ll repeat, try reading, try comprehending.

            1. The Arctic sea ice area is pretty much exactly how it should be for the position of the AMO cycle.

            There is absolutely NOTHING unusual about the loss since the peak in 1979.. It is part of a perfectly NATURAL cycle.. IS simple enough for you to comprehend ???

            The AMO has just got over its peak, and is starting to fall. Anyone with any knowledge of the system would expect the Arctic sea ice level to be at the bottom of its NATURAL CYCLE. and that is exactly where it is. The period from 1980-2010 was the upward leg of the AMO.

            http://s19.postimg.org/7c5hbcs6r/amomean.jpg

            2. The AMO has just started to head back down, sea ice will now start to increase.
            (it is in fact already doing so.)

            3. Current sea ice levels are anomalously high compared to the first 3/4 of the Holocene. Zero summer sea ice was pretty much the normal for much of that time.. and look the world is still here. This is shown in many papers, which I will leave you to try and find.

            Your next step after peeling the spuds, is to learn how to cut them into chips.. back to school you go.

            83

          • #
            AndyG55

            Oh, and I’m sorry you don’t have the intelligence to comprehend that graph I posted..

            Not my problem… your problem to do something about.

            Maybe this one will help..

            It takes the NH ice extent, flips it and aligns it with the AMO.

            http://oi51.tinypic.com/24yptu0.jpg

            And this on shows the link between the AMO and Swiss glaciers.

            http://oi51.tinypic.com/24yptu0.jpg

            Next step for you.. mashed spuds. !!

            73

          • #
            AndyG55

            You could also look at the Reykjavik (that’s in Iceland, btw) temperatures overlaid over the AMO.

            http://s19.postimg.org/5vfcwbc8j/amoreyk.jpg

            See that right hand end, as it starts to curve down.

            That’s now. :-)

            Maybe eventually you will figure out the NATURAL CYCLES involved, if you can get passed your brain-washing and actually engage that small amount of grey matter not taken up with potatoes.

            63

            • #

              Your junk science reminds me a little bit of the graphs that Andrew Bolt routinely posts.
              I’m not all that interested in junk.

              216

              • #
                AndyG55

                You obviously have ZERO scientific understanding or comprehension.

                Of course you are not interested in actual science and real data.

                Of course you just ignore it, because to admit it would defeat your brain-washed propaganda nonsense.

                You have just shown everybody that you have not the slightest interest in anything to do with facts or real information..

                Well done, :-)

                Now .. back to your potatoes….. Its all you have.

                63

              • #
                clive

                Hey numbers,do you realize that not too many people are taking any notice of what you say?I for one skim past your posts,without even reading them.

                22

              • #

                You must be the exception that proves the rule, old mate:-)

                23

              • #
                AndyG55

                So. No numbers to back up anything you say. Nada.. Zip.

                And you prefer to stay wilfully IGNORANT, with zero comprehension of anything.

                Your potatoes have all gone a rotten green colour..

                … but you keep on peeling… because its all you know to do.

                12

              • #
                The Backslider

                I cannot believe that this idiot totally refuses to look at anything and learn something…..

                22

    • #
      Egor TheOne

      To 1735099
      Is anybody IN THERE……? >>>> Arctic Sea Ice right now is at 10.8 Million Square Kms !

      Which part of that don’t you understand ?

      The lowest it has been since sat meas. began in 79 was the northern summer of 2012 at 2.24 million square kms.

      This year’s Arctic summer of 2015 lowest was 3.09 mill Sq Kms ….nearly 40% more than 2012 !

      But how can this be with all the reports that each consecutive month and year is hotter and hotter !

      We are being fed all BS and Propaganda to scare us into paying criminals and lunatics to protect us from nothing .
      CAGW from start to finish is 100% BS !

      This Cryosat graph is interactive …just put the pointer anywhere on the individual year’s data lines and you can get an instant sea ice readout from 1979 till now .

      Or do you only listen to hysterical doomists that read fudged data temp sets located at airport runways ?

      Look and learn >> http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/arctic.sea.ice.interactive.html

      And here is the one for the Antarctic >> http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/antarctic.sea.ice.interactive.html

      The Number ’1735099′ that you post by , is that the number of times that you have been proven wrong ?

      43

      • #

        Or do you only listen to hysterical doomists that read fudged data temp sets located at airport runways ?

        No, old mate – I read the scientific journals.
        They are much more reliable than sceptic blogsites.
        They also, as a rule, refrain from abuse and name calling….

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        • #
          Dave

          .

          Your link 1735099 is nearly 4 years old?

          Been replaced by large increases that GIC is increasing at 122 ± 30 Gt yr

          Try to keep up to date here please!

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          • #

            Your link 1735099 is nearly 4 years old?

            Displays your misapprehension of scientific publishing.
            As I said upthread, the breathless grabs on blogs such as these are junk science.
            They make assumptions and lack the abundance of caution that comprises genuine science.
            They are like newspapers used to be – tomorrow’s fish and chips wrappers.
            Scientific journals, on the other hand, become part of humankind’s bank of knowledge.

            410

            • #
              Dave

              .

              1753909

              I was just commenting on your link – that’s all.

              Why do you go off on a rant on any comment?

              All the replies & links the above have provided – you haven’t responded to any

              You have said:
              1. This blog resembles an echo chamber
              2. This has to be pretty close to the bottom of the barrel
              3. Sure sign of someone with nothing useful to contribute to a debate
              4. I’m not interested in cycles or models
              5. And maybe if you try really really hard you might be able to post a response that doesn’t include an offensive remark
              6. Most year three kids can manage that after a bit of practice
              7. It’s obvious you’ve made a number of unfounded statements (opinions)
              8. Post the citations if you have any
              9. Otherwise I’ll be forced to conclude that you have absolutely no idea what you’re on about…
              10.Your junk science reminds me a little bit of the graphs that Andrew Bolt routinely posts
              11.I’m not all that interested in junk
              12.They are much more reliable than sceptic blogsites
              13.Displays your misapprehension of scientific publishing
              14.The breathless grabs on blogs such as these are junk science
              15.They make assumptions and lack the abundance of caution that comprises genuine science
              16.They are like newspapers used to be – tomorrow’s fish and chips wrappers

              Are You OK?

              Bit worried your anger maybe related to something in your past maybe!

              Keep well 1753909 and don’t let this obsess you mate

              The world is not in danger from CO2

              REPEAT THIS WHEN FEELING ANGRY 1753909

              ok?

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              • #
                James Bradley

                Dave,

                2468 is just staying in character, ‘I was in the military’, ‘I spent time in ‘nam’, ‘I was affected by Agent Orange’, ‘I was on a secret mission and all my military records have been deleted… ‘, ‘I struggle every day’, the Westpac chopper wakes me from my sleep’, ‘I was only nineteen’ etc etc etc – heard it all before.

                12

            • #

              Where’s my apology James?
              You wrote -

              Another w@anker trying to imply military service in ‘Nam by stating – ‘I was in the military’ and ‘I was in Vietnam’.

              I did perform military service – the only choice I had was two years in the army or two years in jail.
              You post is an accusation that I have lied about about my service.
              I did serve in Vietnam, in a rifle platoon. – 5 platoon B coy 7RAR.
              None of this has anything to do with the topic being discussed.
              Except that you make these base smears because you lack the wit to debate.
              You are typical of a privileged generation with no experience of conflict and no understanding of history.
              Apparently you also lack the courage to apologize when your smear is revealed for what it is.

              21

              • #
                The Backslider

                None of this has anything to do with the topic at hand? Sorry, but you have already outlined your conspiracy theory that your exposure to agent orange aligns somehow with energy companies somehow influencing us free thinking bloggers. Your most compelling argument is that in all of the very real uncertainty with climate science we should follow the precautionary principle. We would rather follow the evidence and to look and learn as much as we can. You refuse to at all learn about natural influences on climate, which are by far the biggest factor….you are an ignoramus. That is a statement of fact, not a personal insult.

                22

              • #
                James Bradley

                You’re on a roll there, nugget,

                Can I have your Mastercard and PIN too?

                You apologise for calling me privileged first.

                13

              • #
                James Bradley

                Mate, you’re a troll, you post on blogs to get a negative response and you think that draping yourself in the Eureka flag and posting a corn flakes number makes you something special.

                Put your photo up with a real name attached.

                12

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘The high mountains of Asia, in particular, show a mass loss of only 4 ± 20 Gt yr−1 for 2003–2010, compared with 47–55 Gt yr−1 in previously published estimates,’

          Surely this is a sign of regional cooling?

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        • #
          Egor TheOne

          I call it how it is buddy !

          If it is still warming then why the religious name change from Global Warming to Climate change ?

          How convenient that must be to have a name for any possible climate / weather scenario.

          [Some] People propagating this medievalism should be [investigated] for fraud. [Who] actually believe[s] this money and tax grabbing garbage [snip]!

          I bet you are very selective about the ‘Science Journals’ (Government funded propaganda) you read.

          I bet if from Aus ,you are also a big Advocate of the AlpgreensBC shows ‘The Dumb’ and that ‘Q & BS’ with their loaded true b’lver audiences ,hosts and CAGW Pontificators such as T. Jones.

          I find it grotesquely absurd how only a great big new tax administered by Unelected Nutters (U.N.) can save us all from an insignificant naturally occurring 0.7 c temp increase over the last 130 years with nothing at all from nearly the last 2 decades, and in spite of an easily measurable co2 increase during the same time frame.

          Kinds of shoots ‘Thy full of holes co2 theory’ in the foot. Does it not?

          Perhaps you can direct me to the paper/s that demonstrate/s how our co2 output can and /or will cause catastrophic and or dangerous runaway warming?

          Isn’t it more to the point that the only ‘runaway effect’ are [snip] Al Gore and Co running away with our money based on absurdities, propaganda, doomism , hysteria,data manipulation, and general BS……….all lefty thinking or ‘Group thinking’ us into their idea of a utopia?

          [snip.]

          Your Great Crusade and Global Moral Quest (Highlighted at the recent CON21), is nothing more than a Thieves Cartel and Maniacs Manifesto.

          [Edited to reduce the inflammatory tone. Egor, please don't add spaces before exclamation marks, brackets, commas and full stops. Grammar makes things easier to read. - Jo]

          12

          • #
            Andrew McRae

            please don’t add spaces before exclamation marks, brackets, commas and full stops. -Jo

            I hope the explanation is that Egor is using an iPad or smartphone with an onscreen-keyboard which allows autocompleting a word from a predictive list. If it is similar to my Android phone then it makes typing the text a little bit faster but unfortunately it appends a space after every completed word, and you then have to remember to backspace before pressing a comma or full-stop.
            The only hazard of my hypothesis is that I have to assume Egor has “doomism” in his OSK’s autocomplete dictionary, which seems like a long shot.

            10

        • #
          Rollo

          1735099

          AndyG55 and Egor the One, amonst others, have tried to debate the issue of sea ice extent with you. If you reject all of the links provided as junk science and refuse to engage in debate, why do you bother to come here? Do you have some special ability to sort “junk science” from “real”? If so let us in on the secret.

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        • #
          AndyG55

          “I read the scientific journals.”

          You have made it perfectly clear that you haven’t the slightest possibility of understanding anything published in a scientific journal.

          Just look at the pictures.. and peel those spuds.

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    • #
      TdeF

      The actual ice coverage right now 21 Dec 2015 is shown here. Facts are good.

      A bit like Professor Turney’s trip to see the ice free Antarctic, if you went there today, you would be very disappointed and frozen. It is perfectly normal with lovely warm weather, overcast -30C but feels like -41C. So much better than the South Pole where the annual mean temperature in winter is -76F (-60C) and -18F (-28.2C) in summer. I doubt +0.5C is going to make much difference, so this is all nonsense. Also it is pitch black all day at the North Pole. Santa really needs Rudolph.

      71

    • #
      Dariusz

      I am a geologist that studies paleoclimates as part of my normal breakfast routine.
      Again let us say what you fail to understand; we are in a process of getting out of the mini ice age and there is no acceleration in temperature growth dispute a huge increase in co2. How do you explain this? I think a lot of people on this blog don,t question the overall unaccelerating temperature in recent times even if “the pause” is ignored. There is no anthropogenic temperature signal to which you so readily refer to.

      Before you start abuse focus on the argument and answer the above observation, or your climate started in 1970-ties. If so, my climate starts 4.6 billion years ago. Look at the history or you are just another dilettante like in the human history that you so convincingly demonstrated above?

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  • #
    pat

    academics are not infallible!

    “climate science” not mentioned but, nonetheless, it was extraordinary to hear on ABC’s The Science Show that much scientific research is wrong and being right is more important than being published:

    “listen now” link is working, but not the “download audio” one (at least not for me):

    AUDIO 6mins: 19 Dec: ABC The Science Show: Challenges for scientists as they report and publish their results
    Scientists reporting and publishing their results suffer the same hazards as do all of us in our daily lives. We are bad at seeing our errors. We remember positive results and tend to forget negative results and experiences. And scientists have extra pressures. Success is measured by their rate of publication. There can be unconscious bias and in some cases deliberate manipulation. Simon Gandevia argues for improved cognition, methods and culture in the way scientists work and report their findings.
    Guest: Simon Gandevia, Clinician and Medical Researcher, Deputy Director, Neuroscience Research Australia
    Sydney NSW.
    ONE COMMENT:
    Sajjad Eghdamirad: I am a PhD student at UNSW. It is certainty true “being right is more important than being published”. But when it comes to research as a profession, being published is what scientists strive for…ETC
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/challenges-for-scientists-as-they-report-and-publish-their-resu/7042056

    Gandevia linked to the folowing on twitter last year:

    2013: Nature: Modelling the effects of subjective and objective decision making in scientific peer review
    The objective of science is to advance knowledge, primarily in two interlinked ways: circulating ideas, and defending or criticizing the ideas of others. Peer review acts as the gatekeeper to these mechanisms. Given the increasing concern surrounding the reproducibility of much published research, it is critical to understand whether peer review is intrinsically susceptible to failure, or whether other extrinsic factors are responsible that distort scientists’ decisions. Here we show that even when scientists are motivated to promote the truth, their behaviour may be influenced, and even dominated, by information gleaned from their peers’ behaviour, rather than by their personal dispositions. This phenomenon, known as herding, subjects the scientific community to an inherent risk of converging on an incorrect answer and raises the possibility that, under certain conditions, science may not be self-correcting…
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v506/n7486/full/nature12786.html?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20140206

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  • #
    TdeF

    There are two classic villains, the evil billionaire and the evil scientist.
    What possesses someone to write such a book? Forget the Grinch.
    Irivine, a specialist in sediments, is really scraping the bottom to be the Scientist who stole Christmas.

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    And all of it done for the sake of a couple of degrees of temperature?

    No way.

    What are we doing to ourselves? Why are we doing it? It makes no sense unless there’s something more at stake than a little change in temperature. Now what could be so important that that we must scare our children over it$

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  • #
    PeterPetrum

    Good news! Global warming in the Artctic has made everything even colder with lots more snow in the UK. The highly qualified head of the UK BOM (not used by the BBC any more) has spoken.

    11 April 2013: The chief scientist at the Met Office has called an urgent meeting to discuss the effects of climate change, saying the melting of the arctic may be causing the UK’s recent spate of perishing weather.

    After a winter in which temperatures dropped as low as −15.6C, Dr Julia Slingo told ITV News global warming may be responsible for the extreme weather, saying she would be convening with top scientists to try and understand how the arctic melt was affecting the UK.

    She told the broadcaster: “If this is how climate change could manifest itself, then we need to understand that as a matter of urgency.

    “We are beginning to think that our climate is being disrupted by the warming of the artic that we’ve observed very dramatically since 2007.

    “It definitely seems like the warming of the arctic is “loading the dice” over cold dry winters.” [...]

    As Britain experienced freezing cold weather and snow, with thousands of homes across the UK without power, the government’s outgoing chief advisor warned last month that climate change will bring greater extremes.

    After the coldest March for 50 years, Professor Sir John Beddington said Britain was already experiencing climate change.

    Full story

    - See more at: http://www.thegwpf.com/reminder-climate-change-causing-colder-british-winters-says-met-office-chief-scientist/#.dpuf

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    • #
      TdeF

      So according to the chief scientist of the Met office, the current extreme cold is produced by a very slight warming of 0.5C which stopped twenty years ago? Climate Change (translation: Man Made Global Warming caused wholly by CO2) means the UK getting colder because it is getting warmer in the Arctic. It shows the triumph of politics and religion over facts. When will a chief scientist be allowed to make sense? This is political science, not real science.

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  • #
    Manfred

    The Last Christmas, The North Pole is melting! by Ian Irvine

    All echoing the Green Blob, Create the problem, instill the fear, collect the money.

    Irvine’s a self-interested mercenary. Unashamedly opportunistic, he epitomizes greed and capitalism at their very worst in seeking to exploit children.

    80

  • #
  • #
    Egor TheOne

    Another Mention of Santa >>>

    Global Cooling: Is an Ice Age Coming?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av_DAeTP6r4

    50

    • #
      PeterS

      I like the comment “we are no threat to earth”. True but we are a threat to ourselves. While the global warming hoax and scam continues to grow, we are getting dangerously closer to WW3 because of what’s happening right now in Syria and surrounding regions. How stupid can mankind get? We will find out soon enough.

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      • #
        originalsteve

        I am convinced smart phones are turning the population into complete imbeciles.

        I constantly am amazed at the complete lack of coherent thought, the ability to be wound up by the media and do its bidding, and the millimeter thin layer of “intelligence” that exists.

        As I’ve said numerous times – people these days are only as smart as their internet connection….

        And *that* is why we’ll have WW3….people are actually getting more and more moronic by the year, or at least that how it seems.

        I’m not being nasty, just calling it how i see it. In fact, smart phones are accelerating stiupidity in stupid people, it reminds me of the comment “when the bell boy gives you stock advice, its time to get out of the market”….

        10

  • #
    Egor TheOne

    According to the Cryosphere data there is currently 10.8 million square kms of Arctic sea Ice !

    So much for no ice by 2013 from that Dud Fraudster Al a convenient Liar Gore ….the Nobel peace prize co-winner for scams .

    And yet there he was at the CON21 among the other criminals cheering for stealing our money .

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/arctic.sea.ice.interactive.html

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  • #
    pat

    a second piece from Robyn Williams’ The Science Show this week.

    ***not sure why ABC would write major EMPLOYERS, when referring to campus funders BP, Tata, etc. BP provided the land, as well. have seen a couple of FOI requests online re the extent of BP funding, but one was refused & the other was only partially successful (i didn’t open Swansea’s PDF response to that one):

    the funny thing is this campus – its Energy Safety Research Institute in particular – is more focused on fracking than renewables &, according to its own website, “builds on the existing long-term strengths within College of Engineering in the area of petroleum and chemical processing, particularly in terms of computational science (rock fracture modelling and fracking’) and corrosion.” indeed, the anti-fracking org, Reclaim the Power, have protested at the site over BP’s funding & its purpose.

    ABC’s Robyn Williams paints a different picture entirely, but ends his segment with Barron by asking a sentimental question re coal in Wales, asked for his family, “generations of coal-miners in Wales”! lol.

    AUDIO 9mins25secs: 19 Dec: Engineering and business combined in new Welsh campus
    Swansea University is spending £500 million expanding its engineering and business schools in a combined campus. The innovation campus is designed to foster interaction with industry, providing engineering
    students with skills for employment. There is a focus on renewable energy and addressing big challenges integrating solar, wind and tidal power with the national grid. An interesting problem shared by Scotland and Texas is their ability to generate more energy than can be transmitted using the cables currently in place. Excess power can be stored in batteries or used to produce hydrogen which can then be transported.
    Major ***employers on campus include Rolls Royce, Boots, BP and Tata Steel.
    Guests incl: Andrew Barron, Ser Cymru Chair of Low Carbon Energy and Environment, College of Engineering, Swansea University, Wales
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/engineering-and-business-combine-in-new-welsh-campus/7041962

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    • #

      An interesting problem shared by Scotland and Texas is their ability to generate more energy than can be transmitted using the cables currently in place. Excess power can be stored in batteries…..

      You just have to smile when you read this.

      Don’t you just love the way that word ….. batteries ….. just rolls off their tongues. You know, as if they have them already.

      For Sale – Sydney. Power consumption only 25TWH per year. (Batteries not supplied)

      Tony.

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      • #
        originalsteve

        Its an awful lot of “D” cells, really…..he he

        10

      • #
        Matty

        I just love the way Prof David MacKay spells out how fantastic living on renewables would be, without actually saying it

        ” we have to imagine creating roughly
        12 new sites, each storing 100 GWh – roughly ten times the energy stored
        in Dinorwig. The pumping and generating hardware at each site would
        be the same as Dinorwig’s.”

        http://www.withouthotair.com/c26/page_192.shtml

        That’s roughly 132 Dinorwigs of storage capacity, of which Britain currently has less than 3

        10

  • #
    MudCrab

    Didn’t realise for a while, but I have read some of Ian’s other work.

    To be honest didn’t like it much. Struggled through about 150 pages vainly hoping some sort of plot would turn up then gave up. Still, I don’t read a lot of epic fantasy and each to their own.

    Having actually worked out who Ian is in this context, I find it amusing that he is being promoted as ‘Ian the Scientist’ and not ‘Ian the Successful Author With Multiple Book Series Under His Belt’.

    Are his promotional team embarrassed by the fact he is a successful Fantasy Author?

    30

  • #
  • #
    Rocky

    Satellites show no ‘global warming’ for 18 1/2 years – No N. Pole warming for nearly 14 years – No S. Pole warming for 37 years!

    South Pole sees no warming for 37 years. ‘For the whole of the satellite record, the South Polar region has had a negative trend. So much for a fingerprint of warming due to the enhanced greenhouse effect being greater warming at the Poles!’

    But there is more

    UAH v6.0 (University of Alabama Huntsville satellite) data for November were released a couple of days ago. Here are updated graphs for various regions showing the furthest back one can go to show a zero or negative trend (less than +0.01C/ 100 years) in lower tropospheric temperatures. For the second month of the climb towards the El Nino peak, there is still NO pause in the Northern Hemisphere trend. However, in some regions the pause has lengthened. Note: The satellite record commences in December 1978. The entire satellite record is now 37 years long- 444 months.

    Warmists will be fretting big time

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  • #
    pat

    oops!!!

    15 Dec: UK Times: Robin Pagnamenta: Consumers to foot bill for smart meter chaos
    An £11 billion plan to install 50 million smart meters in homes in England, Wales and Scotland by 2020 has been thrown into chaos by proposed EU reforms to Britain’s electricity market.
    Many of the two million meters that have already been installed may have to be removed or reprogrammed under the scheme, experts warned.
    Wholesale electricity in Britain is traded in half-hourly intervals, unlike in Germany and most of the EU, where it is in 15-minute periods.
    The EU wants to harmonise the UK’s electricity market with the rest of Europe, which would mean smart meters having to record data every 15 minutes compared with the present 30 minutes.
    Dominic Whittome, a consultant with Mainline Energy, said that British smart meters, part of the biggest national infrastructure project in decades, were incompatible with the proposed change.
    “It will render most if not all smart meters redundant,” he said, predicting that UK consumers will be faced with a bill running into “hundreds of millions of pounds” to comply with the change, which could be implemented in 2017…
    David Merino, a spokesman for ACER in Brussels, said that the harmonisation of the UK and EU markets was necessary because of the rapid growth of intermittent sources of electricity, such as wind and solar. “More flexible resources are therefore needed so that market participants can compensate for very sudden and very fast changes in intermittent generation,” he said…READ ALL
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/utilities/article4640942.ece?shareToken=3f35de09290ff0f6f31e01316dbbe058

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  • #
    Trevor

    Oh dear. I’ve really enjoyed reading Irvine’s quirky FICTION novel serious Three Worlds Cycle as he has such a great imagination.
    Interestingly he also wrote a trilogy loosely on environment, the first book The Last Albatross in which the villain is a mad environmentalist who wants to destroy the world to save it.

    “Irvine’s eco-thriller trilogy The Human Rites Trilogy explores a world undergoing catastrophic climate change. They are set a little way in Earth’s future and shows the impact climate change is having on politics, the economy and life in general. The series was originally published between 2000 and 2003, and many of the events described in the books (such as the destruction of New Orleans by a huge hurricane) have since come true.” – (might have a better record than Tim FlimFlam and the IPCC then?!)

    Oh well. I will continue to read Irvine for FICTION – for a good adventure in a non-existent universe. A bit of escapism can be entertaining!

    20

  • #
    pat

    20 Dec: UK Chronicle: Brian Daniel: Wind farms in Northumberland ‘dramatically and abruptly interrupt views’
    Massive wind turbines in Northumberland have “dramatically” and “abruptly” interrupted views of the county’s attractions and landscapes, a council report claims.
    Views from lookouts such as Ros Castle, Cataran Hill and Preston Tower, and of attractions like Dunstanburgh Castle and the county’s stunning coastline, have been disrupted by the construction of 28 125m turbines near Alnwick, the study finds.
    The report also claims that the views have been effected to a “significantly greater degree” than suggested by the developers of the wind farms…
    ***Two respected conservation bodies in the county have called for lessons to be learnt to prevent to prevent further “iconic tourist landscapes” being “scarred for decades.”…
    A joint statement from the bodies states: “A failure to get this right will, like the Middlemoor/Wandylaw turbine complex, scar our iconic tourist landscapes for decades.”
    http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/wind-farms-northumberland-dramatically-abruptly-10626255

    all four comments so far are extremely negative, e.g.

    John Henderson: These things are a blight on our beautiful landscape and should be banned. their cost will never be justified, and after all they are useless when the wind is not blowing. Still, I suppose they are a nice little earner for the various land owners so I have no doubt they will keep on appearing !!

    DBNlys:To see some examples of just how dodgy some of the wind industry’s visualisations can be see examples on the Visuals page of the Windbyte website…READ ON

    JackSparow: in the past 3 years we the tax payers have paid £182m to wind turbine owners in subsidies for non production of electricity,. The value of these turbines are dubious at best and they are certainly a blight on the landscape. The industrialisation of our beautiful landscape is not why tourists come to our country…

    21

    • #
      Robert R

      Have you ever lived in a tourist area and had scenic helicopter flights go over your house every three minutes?
      IT’S NOT NICE!
      Living near wind farms is like this only worse……like having helicopters permanently hovering around you around the clock!!!!
      Except when the wind is not blowing of course. That’s when you can catch up with some sleep.

      51

  • #
    pat

    worldwide there seems to be a growing backlash against wind & solar farms, often from conservation groups, yet Fairfax picked up on a story that went viral on MSM recently, which misrepresented the truth, & took the opportunity to mock Abbott & Hockey again:

    14 Dec: SMH: Michael Koziol: US town rejects solar farm after residents say it would suck up all the sunlight
    Australia is, of course, no stranger to the full breadth of arguments deployed against renewable energy.
    Deposed prime minister Tony Abbott once disparaged wind turbines as noisy, ugly and “visually awful”, while former treasurer Joe Hockey called them “utterly offensive”.
    Speaking after the conclusion of the weekend’s landmark climate deal in Paris, US Secretary of State John Kerry said the most important element of the talks was transformation to a clean energy future…

    the story involved North Carolina firm, Strata Solar, which sells most of the power it produces to North Carolina’s Duke Energy, ‘the largest electric power holding company in the United States, with assets also in Canada and Latin America…Duke Energy has been “one of the most vocal advocates” for a “cap-and-trade” system to combat global CO2 emissions “and the company’s CEO, Jim Rogers, thinks the company will profit from cap-and-trade”‘ (Wikipedia).

    to be continued.

    21

  • #
    pat

    some context:

    14 Dec: NewsObserver: John Murawski: Rural North Carolina town mocked on social media after passing solar moratorium
    Story goes viral after local residents make outlandish anti-solar claims
    Woodland officials then barraged by hate mail
    Town officials say the Internet missed an important piece of the story…
    It would be foolish to conclude that all the town’s residents have an aversion to solar energy, said Ron Lane, who has been on the Woodland Town Council for two years. In the past year, Lane noted, the town approved zoning changes to accommodate a trio of major solar farms, one of which is nearly completed.
    Woodland simply got too cramped for a fourth solar installation, he said.
    “How would you and your family like to live in the middle of a solar farm, surrounded on all four sides?” said Lane, a retired elementary school principal. “We have approved three solar farms on almost three points of the compass. This would have completely boxed the town in with solar farms.”…
    Woodland, a town of some 800 residents, is only the latest to experience a public backlash against the state’s solar renaissance…
    In the past few years, about two dozen solar farms around the state have become targets of public ire, usually over aesthetics and property values. Facing local hostility, several of these energy projects were voluntarily withdrawn by the developers, said Daniel Conrad, a staff attorney for the N.C. Utilities Commission.
    The resistance often flares up in areas that have become magnets for solar farms – agricultural communities with cheap farmland near electrical substations where solar farms can interconnect to the power grid, said Stephen Kalland, executive director of the N.C. Clean Energy Technology Center.
    But the state’s remarkable transformation of soybean fields into rows of indigo panels is also alarming some agriculturalists. In a Nov. 30 letter to the state’s extension agents, N.C. State University crop science professor Ron Heiniger warned that the rapid spread of solar farms “may well be one of the most important agricultural issues of our generation.”
    Heiniger’s call-to-arms, reproduced in at least one local paper, predicts that solar farms could shift land use to such an extent that “it is highly unlikely this land will ever be farmed again.” Heiniger also denounced solar energy as a government-subsidized boondoggle that is “highly inefficient at producing energy.”…
    By Monday, the story was trending on Reddit, DailyKos and The Huffington Post as well as the United Kingdom’s Independent and the Hindustan Times in New Delhi, India.
    Lane, the Woodland councilman, said the town has received profanity-laced voice mails and enraged emails from people around the country.
    Ultimately, he said, the Strata Solar project was not doomed by irrational fears. The photovoltaic panels were proposed just 50 feet from residential homes, and the project was too close to State Route 258 leading into town.
    “We’re not opposed to the solar farm itself, just that particular location,” Lane said. “We wanted to make sure they didn’t overtake the town.
    http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article49766215.html

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  • #
    pat

    12 Nov: WCNC: Jeremy Markovich: Why solar farms are booming in North Carolina
    This week, SNL Financial put out this map, showing where farms of solar panels are showing up. As you can see, North Carolina is exploding with solar, more so than any other neighboring state. We rank third in the nation when it comes to the amount of solar power that’s on the state’s grid. Largely because Duke Energy had to solve a problem.
    A state law says that in the year 2020, one eighth of all of the power Duke Energy makes has to come from renewable energy. Right now, it mostly comes from coal.
    So to get there– Duke has largely turned to Solar power for two reasons:
    1.The federal tax credits are really good (30%) and so are the state tax credits (35%). “North Carolina has one of the best incentives in the country,” Chris Verner of Accelerate Solar told us in May, “and by far one of the best incentives for large scales arrays.”
    2.The price of solar panels has come way down in recent years.
    Hence, solar farms are popping up everywhere in North Carolina (Most recently, in Kings Mountain and Hickory in our area) and earlier this year, Duke Energy it would invest a half billion dollars into solar in North Carolina…
    I talked to the folks at Strata Solar in Chapel Hill. They’ve built 70 solar farms since 2011, and sell a lot of that power to Duke. They say that even if the credits go away– they think they’ll still be in good shape. Duke still needs the renewable energy, and the amount Duke pays Strata for it is fixed by the state. That’s supposed to keep rates from going up.
    So in the end, cheap panels, state rules and tax credits mean you’ll continue to see a lot solar farms around the state.
    So, why aren’t more homes adding solar panels to their roofs in North Carolina? Blame cheap power. The video below explains why:
    http://www.wcnc.com/story/technology/2014/11/12/why-solar-farms-are-booming-in-north-carolina/18933725/

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    Latest book and documentary.
    ‘The Deliberate Corruption of Climate Science’.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPzpPXuASY8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPzpPXuASY8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO08Hhjes_0
    http://www.drtimball.com

    Debate between Dr Tim Ball and Elizabeth May
    Scroll down to Ian Jessop part 1
    http://www.cfax1070.com/Podcasts

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    ScotsmaninUtah

    Dr Irvine should be congratulated

    Irvine should admired for his precise choice.
    He could have chosen an alternative childrens story such as Hansel and Gretal or Peter and the Wolf or the 3 little pigs. But instead he chose a story which has the biggest impact on children…. Santa Claus and Christmas.

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    Dan Pangburn

    Sometimes backing away a bit makes the picture clearer.

    Carbon dioxide has been erroneously suspected of being a forcing on global temperature. Compelling evidence, CO2 has no effect on climate requires only (1) Understanding that temperature changes with the integral of the net forcing (not directly with the instantaneous value of the forcing itself). And (2) all life depends ultimately on photosynthesis which requires CO2.

    The 542 million years of evolution on land required substantial atmospheric CO2. The integral of CO2 (or a function thereof) for 542 million years could not consistently result in today’s temperature. Documented in a peer reviewed paper at Energy & Environment, vol. 26, no. 5, 841-845 and also at http://agwunveiled.blogspot.com which also identifies the two factors that explain climate change (97% match since before 1900).

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    dp

    Can anyone look at that sea ice chart and honestly describe it as an abnormal and inexplicable pattern? It begins in 1979 at the end of a very cold period. That is the instant a warmer period begins, right? Now we know from history that these cooling/warming episodes are recurrent and nobody alive or dead knows why these episodes happen or how long they may last. So my question is how can anyone look at the very limited sea ice record as shown and declare it evidence that world economies must be sacrificed so the sea ice record will look different and not be declared mad. How?

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    Tuan Besar

    I did perform military service – the only choice I had was two years in the army or two years in jail.

    Garbage. That “two years jail” was nowhere near as automatic as you would imply. Of the thousands of prosecutions for failure to obey a callup notice, only FOURTEEN were ever imprisoned. (Page 370 of “The Official History, “A Nation At War” by Peter Edwards.) You aren’t the only one who was alive at the time…

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    1735099

    Whether you like it or not, that was how the NS act was written. Tell me, did you volunteer?

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      Why, yes I did.

      So much so that my Service Number is now the number of my very meagre superannuation.

      If a certain South Australian Senator were to resign right now, her superannuation would be six times higher than mine, and I served my Country three times longer than she will have, her a few days a year sitting in the Senate, me serving 365 days a year.

      I cherished every day of my service. I loved it. There were actually some bad times, but hey, I really don’t remember them any more. I got past them.

      I remember the good times, probably the best of them standing in front of a class of new trainee students learning my trade, and seeing the ‘light go on’.

      Life was good.

      Life is good.

      They were the best years of my life.

      Tony.

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    David Maddison

    It is so cruel and immoral to mislead and misinform children in this manner.

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    Harry Twinotter

    JoNova.

    ‘Tell the kiddies that somehow Santa and the reindeer survived 1959 when submarines from the US Navy surfaced at the North Pole. (They even did it in winter too).’

    Of course submarines can surface at the North Pole – they are in the middle of an ocean.

    I can’t see what point you are trying to make.

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