JoNova

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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 7.6 out of 10 based on 24 ratings

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228 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Kevin Lohse

    A professor from WSU doing some empirical climate science and coming up with some inconvenient truths. Apparently, Belinda Medlyn has conducted research which indicates a dramatic increase in leaf growth of 80-y-o bush when subjected to increased CO2 levels. The estimable Eric Worrall has written it up on WUWT. Just in time for Paris. Those of you closer to the scene than I might like to monitor the reaction of the Church of Climate, (Australia) Inc to this disruptive piece of empirical science.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/10/16/hawkesbury-river-study-co2-improves-tree-growth-drought-tolerance/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
    and:
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/trees-reap-benefits-ofnbspclimate-change/story-e6frg8y6-1227572132164and

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    • #
      gnome

      Nothing to monitor- if it doesn’t support the narrative it will be ignored.

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      • #

        “Nothing to monitor- if it doesn’t support the narrative it will be ignored.”
        So helpful! What right now are you “packin” as show of force against this accepted (by slaves) narrative? ;-)

        30

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Hi Will

          I had to read everything twice and I think I got it.

          Gnome is saying that the media will not report on this beneficial effect on the 80 year old bush because it “it doesn’t support the narrative” and will therefore “be ignored”.

          IF the media responds as gnome predicts and do not publish anything then”

          there is “Nothing to monitor”.

          So gnome is reminding us that the media will be selective in publishing stories about Global CO2 Incineration.

          KK

          40

          • #
            ExWarmist

            In the current operational framework of the Media Academic Government Complex (as opposed to the Military industrial Complex) for “Facts”, is that the “facts” of a matter are determined by conformance with the dominant narrative.

            Fake but Accurate is sufficient for acceptance and reporting as fact.

            I.e. Something can be complete BS, but as long as it conforms with the dominant narrative (i.e. is Accurate) – then it will be deemed as a fact and presented to the multitudes as a fact by the Authorities.

            The previous paradigm, where the operational framework was that facts were referenced from verifiable evidence has been supplanted by the current paradigm.

            Some people deem this shift in paradigm “Progressive” – I have a different view.

            The dominant narratives of our culture which provide an orientating framework for human choice and action are being generated and maintained by the Media Academic Government Complex and are in desperate need of subversion by everyone.

            40

            • #
              ExWarmist

              As a corollary to the above, the implication is that there will be no investigative journalism directed at a dominant narrative from the Main Stream Media.

              It just wont happen. No “Investigative Journalist” will turn their eye on the Dominant Narrative.

              e.g. French Weather Reporters…

              30

            • #
              KinkyKeith

              That’s it

              “The dominant narratives of our culture ————– are in desperate need of subversion by everyone.”

              We’re trying here but seem not to be doing much more than educating ourselves.

              How do we SUBVERT.

              Look at the EEU; stuffed. Half a million migrants blowing though the borders to a new instant heaven .

              In Australia, a small country town can be chosen for a new $3 million dollar M$sq$e.

              The basic narrative we need to establish is that TO BE ENTITLED YOU MUST FIRST OF ALL SHOW YOUR BONA-FIDES BY CONTRIBUTING.

              Then in hard times you will be entitled to draw on the common pool.

              Too many politicians have been elected by disregarding this commonsense rule of life and they just love it, that we can’t subvert their strategy.

              KK

              30

            • #
              gai

              The Media, Academia and Government have all been infiltrated by the Progressives/Fabians.

              … In the book, Hedges explains how the five pillars of the liberal class — the press, universities, unions, liberal churches and the Democratic Party — have become corrupt….

              Chris Hedges is a fellow at the Nation Institute, former foreign correspondent for the New York Times, won the Pulitzer Prize in 2002 as part of a team covering the issue of global terror….
              http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/20/chris_hedges_obama_is_a_poster

              I found Chris Hedges statement “…I.F. Stone, arguably our greatest journalist of the 20th century”… hilarious since my Husband knew the family and I.F. Stone complained bitterly about losing his funding after the collapse of the USSR. Also see: No Sense Denying I.F. Stone Was a Soviet Agent

              (I have read: Spies: The Rise and Fall of the KGB in America which is based on KGB archives.)

              30

              • #
                Bill

                So true. We are seeing it in progress here in Canada as the media party mobilizes itself to “stop Harper” at all costs. The level of propaganda being put out by the media in this election is beyond any previous measure. The election was called early to allow for the end of 3rd party electioneering (unions, businesses etc) but nothing stops the media agenda with its bleat of “freedom of the press” regardless of the blatancy. It only remains to see what the actual ballot counts are, will we retain responsible government or will the shiney pony (PET’s brat who fully subscribes to the agw myth) be the next PM? If you pray, start now, this may not bode well for anyone, in Canada or elsewhere.

                20

    • #
      AndyG55

      lol.. don’t let Harry ?-persons read that..

      A peer reviewed study showing that PLANTS LUV CO2

      The poor guy will have apoplexy !! :-)

      171

    • #
      Peter Miller

      Almost a century ago, the western powers signed up to one of the most disastrous treaties of all time, that of Versailles, which laid the foundations for the Great Depression and the start of the next world war, only 20 years later. The U.S.Congress refused to ratify the treaty.

      It looks like history may be about to repeat itself a few miles away in Paris 96 years later.

      Sigh………..when will they ever learn?

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        If large numbers of people could learn from history this would be a different world. But history is inconvenient for those who want to pull a fast one as the saying goes. So it’s even worse than failure to learn from history. They now hide the relevant history so there’s no chance of ever seeing it. The replacement, of course, is propaganda.

        Our schools probably never did an unbiased treatment of history. But it’s gotten worse of late. Much much worse.

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      • #
        James Bradley

        Peter Miller,

        If you want real pessimism you could subscribe to my darker views:

        WWII broke the back of the depression, kick starting industry in both the Allied and Axis countries. The eventual winners subsidised the losers whose economies and innovations then outstripped those of the winners. Under the jurisdiction of the newly formed UN the Cold War flourished and filled its coffers until the ‘wall’ came down. Sh!t. Okay lets try Global cooling. Zip Nada Nothing. Lets try the Hole in the Ozone layer – not marketed right – they say the job got done with nothing going into the old UN kitty. Okay – CO2, Sea level rise global warming climate change climate disruption climate chaos – there that’ll do it (for a while till that pause catches up again). Tax CO2 – set up a trading scam – market it through well paid dupes:

        Step 1. Rob from the rich and give to the poor
        Step 2. Rob from the poor when the rich need more.
        Step 3. When you’ve robbed all you can then start another war.

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        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Sadly that’s the world in a nut shell.

          And I do mean NUTS!!!!!

          KK

          30

          • #

            I read your posts, partly because my middle name is Keith, but have long wondered if you damage your credibility by posting under the silly moniker “Kinky Keith”?

            While I have no desire to know how you got that nickname, my studies in business school taught me that names matter, and you will gain more respect (doesn’t everyone want that?) if you start posting using a name that implies great knowledge in the climate world, and is more serious too. My suggestion is Professor Kinky Keith, PhD

            11

            • #
              KinkyKeith

              Good point Richard.

              Maybe it is time for a new name.

              Also, I don’t have a PhD so can’t use that.

              KK for the moment

              :)

              20

        • #

          You need applause.

          Great wisdom, and it rhymes too!

          From my point of view, I am depressed about only one thing:

          When life on Earth ends as we know it, I still won’t know if the cause has been DDT, acid rain, the hole in the ozone layer, global cooling, global warming, or silicone breast implants?

          If the hole in the ozone layer gets us first, then would global warming even matter?

          SO MANY THINGS were going to end life on Earth as we know it, that even if is only 10% of the predictions were right, we’re still doomed.

          I hope I have not darkened your “darker views”.

          40

          • #
            KinkyKeith

            Well Richard

            the choice of KK came about when I moved from the original nom de plume being used.

            The use of the original name was a bit K&&ky and at the time it seemed appropriate to acknowledge that my first name had been an unusual choice.

            Although my posts may not always have made sense I was probably using the weird moniker as a contrast.

            I had hoped that the quality of my posts would be the relevant part rather than the name.

            I’ll have to explore a new, more corporately acceptable name .. time.

            KK

            00

            • #
              gai

              Hey, KK

              I like the name. I started typing my name got interrupted and notice gai was close to Gaia so decided to leave it at that. It tickled my funny bone to use a name close to the ‘Gaia hypothesis’ for a confirmed Denier.

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            • #

              The same with my screen name, and It’s the only one I have used, other than at places where a real name is required.

              I had been using it since May of 2005, when I started off at the Wax Forum at the Mothers Car Care site, and would leave occasional comments at other sites as well.

              The first time I was asked about that screen name was when I started to contribute at my Home Site in May of 2008, and the site’s owner was curious about it. Once explained, he liked it, and asked me to leave an explanation for it in my Bio at that site.

              Tony.

              20

            • #
              KinkyKeith

              Thanks Gai and Tony

              I’m not going back to my previous nom, she’s gone, but my nick name is a bit heavy (Dan) so maybe just use KK.

              20

            • #
              Annie

              KK…I enjoy reading your posts and go by their content…am quite used to your moniker and would be thrown if you adopt a different one :)

              30

    • #
      Axelatoz

      And the Warmist spin on this will go something like this:-
      More CO2 equals more vegetation.
      More vegetation equals more Catestrophic bushfires.
      Therefore CO2 is the root of all evil!
      Repent now.

      100

      • #
        RB

        Higher CO2 will lead larger drug crops causing untold misery.

        In tonight’s other news, the government is considering legalising marijuana.

        40

    • #
      John Silver

      Photosynthesis doesn’t exist, it’s just a conspiracy theory the deniers have made up.

      50

  • #
    el gordo

    Ted Cruz is nicely placed to gain the Republican nomination (unusual for someone not part of the Establishment) and go on to become President.

    100

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Be interesting to hear what Roy and other US members of this blog think?

      KK

      31

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        OK, KK. Here is some commentary from me. And mind you, I have no crystal ball with which to look into the future. So I have no idea who will become president on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2017.

        When Arnold Schwarzenegger was first talked about as a possible candidate for governor of California the media jumped on that name recognition and all you heard from then on was, Arnold, Arnold, Arnold… …good for ratings but not good for California as it turned out. There were other good candidates but they were literally squeezed out of most election coverage. You no doubt know Arnie by name. But can you tell me the name of any other candidate on the Republican ticket? There was one much better candidate but you never would know it from the election coverage.***

        The same thing is happening now but to a lesser degree with Donald Trump. It’s Trump, Trump, Trump all the time. It may work out better this time because there are really good candidates still getting coverage and gaining on him in these foolish polls we insist are so meaningful (that’s another story too).

        I have no use for Trump. He’s doing exactly what Obama did, telling any audience he’s speaking to exactly what they need to hear to get their votes. He’s playing to voter anger and frankly, anger makes very poor decisions. He’s keeping up the level of controversy to keep his name at the top of the election news — also not good. There’s a lot more truth in what he says than in what Obama said but still, this is not a good tactic and no one can see it. It’s made worse to me by his bluster and inability to control his anger, inability to avoid unnecessary controversy and so on. How will that play if he’s president? Badly I think.

        I favor Ben Carson right now but I’ve made no final decision. He is gaining on Trump and everyone else is far behind, even Ted Cruz. So Carson may make it to the nomination.

        Now! If the truth be known, I desperately wish I could construct a candidate from the best attributes of several of the Republicans and leave out all the bad attributes. But I can’t do that. Nuts.

        Among the Democrats you have some nonstarters and Hillary. She’s under investigation by the FBI for serious felonies, such as violation of the espionage act… …oops, you go to prison for that! But she’ll get votes even if she’s in jail, just because she’s a woman and entitled to be president. She’s “the Hillary”, in every way equivalent to “the Donald” but for quite different reasons.

        Joe Biden (buffoon Biden to some, including me) may enter the race but I’m doubtful. And if he does, he’s no better choice than Hillary.

        Can a Republican beat a Democrat? According to any criteria I think are right the answer should be yes. But this year it’s all about everything but leadership ability and vision for the direction to take the nation. Remember, Hillary is entitled…

        This is only the view from my position down in the trenches so don’t make bets on anything. But I hope it helps.

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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          *** Ever heard of Tom McClintock? I thought so. But I’ll be happy if you can surprise me.

          30

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          About all the polls. They may help campaign advisors but I think they also encourage voters to vote according to popularity rather than examining each candidate and then making their own decision. Without the polls I think we would be much better off.

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        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Hi Roy

          A great outline.

          And no, I haven’t heard the name Tom McClintock so I probably haven’t surprised you there.

          The picture you paint is probably the same one we have here.

          People being led by incessant polls with little or no meaning but very strongly directing voters along particular path.

          The only thing that the USA and Australia can be thankful for is that to some extent we are still democracies and not part of the EEU

          which looks like it is about to collapse under the increasing burden placed on it by the Golden Elite in Bruxelles.

          We only have the rubbish to deal with that the united nations puts on us and here in Australia there is a pattern developing where our u

          n representatives can be seen to sell out our sovereignty for the glamour of being there and for the golden chalice :

          a future executive position at the u n based in New York ( all expenses paid by those wealthy westerners).

          The many western “democracies” now facing this crisis of loss of faith in elected officials to just manage their responsibilities to the

          electorate suggest to me one thing, and I hope you’ll pardon the expression but

          We need the equivalent of a gigantic Political Enema to stop the present misdirection of elected government and misuse of taxes

          for vague ideas like the Climate Change farce which has seen huge amounts of cash basically stolen from the people .

          We are at a tipping point :)

          KK

          60

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            The only thing that the USA and Australia can be thankful for is that to some extent we are still democracies…

            I wonder a lot about the value of “democracy” when our elected leaders appear to care more about their personal gain and personal agendas than they care about the responsibility they were elected to carry out. Hillary didn’t give toot for her job as senator or Secretary of State either. They all took an oath to do their job and that oath was abandoned before sunset the day they said, “I will, so help me God.”.

            Obama has sacked over 190 flag rank military officers (1 or more stars) to replace them with yes men. The intent is blatantly obvious to me. He now rules more like a king than a leader.

            40

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            We need the equivalent of a gigantic Political Enema to stop the present misdirection of elected government and misuse of taxes for vague ideas like the Climate Change farce which has seen huge amounts of cash basically stolen from the people .

            KK,

            When I read that the first time I was struck by just how apt the analogy it really is. I was tempted to reply with the following remark but I pulled my punch (polite old me), something I regret now on second reading. So…

            I wonder where we should stick it in, Washington DC, New York City, Canberra or Brussels. Any ideas as to where it would be most effective? Maybe all of the above?

            00

            • #
              KinkyKeith

              Roy we could possibly try putting it in the water supplies to all of those places mentioned.

              Then run for the hills.

              KK

              00

        • #
          ExWarmist

          My view is that there is a single party in the US, “The Wall Street” party.

          The Republican/Democrat structure is theatre to impress the people and provide an illusion of participation so that the nature of their serfdom is not revealed.

          Either party will produce a president that will simply implement the policies of the owners of wall street.

          We in the developed west, especially the anglophone countries live in a Neo-Fascist Corporate State derived from the British and US empires, where the policy defining function is located with a Crypto-Feudalist cartel of families/clans that own controlling interests in the major corporates of the world. The State is simply a co-opted legislative, regulatory & enforcement machine to ensure the following.

          [1] The ongoing incumbency of the current cartel centered within the developed world.

          [2] The flow of profits garnered via the large corporates, which then flow to the owners within the cartel

          [3] The blocking and disruption of competition that may come from other smaller businesses, nation states, or international regional blocks.

          [4] The maintenance of a privately owned, monopoly (no pun intended…) monetary and financial system based on a full fiat debt instrument and fractional reserve banking that is designed in it’s operation to guarantee the flow of value from the labors of the many to the ownership of the few.

          [5] The shielding of the cartel from any accountability for their actions – they are above the law – as the law is never applied to them.

          My hypothesis is refutable and provides predictions.

          Prediction [1] – Aligned with point [3] above. Active steps will be taken to block the rise of China and Russia as peer competitors (aka Wolfowitz doctrine) via proxy war (Ukraine, Syria) and attempts at containment (TPP, US not joining the AIIB).

          Prediction [2] – Aligned with Points [2,3 & 5]. The TPP if implemented will minimize competition for already powerful corporates and will increase profits at the expense of the middle classes and the poor.

          Prediction [3] – Aligned with all Points. Agenda 21 Trojan Horse, if implemented will not cause significant reduction in CO2 emission levels or redistribution of wealth to the poor, instead CO2 emissions will be monetized and the already powerful corporates will increase their profits at the expense of the developed world middle class and the worlds poor who will continue to suffer greatly.

          Prediction [4] – Aligned with point [5]. Senior Cartel apparatchiks such as high level US congress members and Wall street CEOs will not by indicted from crimes. (Google “To Big to Jail”)

          All these predictions are easily refutable.

          On the plus side, the Crypto-Feudalist Cartel is not stable – as there is no honor amongst thieves and (from game theory) he who defects first loses the least. There are several big flaws in their globalist agenda.

          [1] Defections within the ranks of the Cartel, other players such as Russia, China, (and on a regional basis) Iran pursuing their own agendas can invite other entities to swap allegiances (i.e. Germany could swing East and align more closely with Russia).

          [2] Architectural flaws within the current debt based monetary system invite system collapse and unmanageable chaos beyond a “useful crisis”.

          [3] Cultural inertia – getting compliance from other players, and long lived/entrenched cultures in the M.E. India, China, etc.

          My thoughts this Sunday.

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          • #
            KinkyKeith

            Hi Ex

            You hit that nail on the head.

            Money, finance,banks, corruption ; the ordinary people’s money stolen by outright fraud worldwide.

            And all we have had is what, 2 convictions and jailings of these finance criminals?

            There should be thousands in jail after what happened !

            KK

            60

            • #
              ExWarmist

              I’m aware of (obviously not well connected…) Bernie Madoff, who was the 2nd?

              30

              • #
                KinkyKeith

                To be honest ex it was only after you mentioned Bernie that it came back.

                I also had a vague idea of another one not so long ago.

                No details , maybe just a figment of an old brain.

                Point is, there should have been a lot more but the rascals knew that they had pollies over a barrel facing wallstreet and that once prosecutions started they would need 100 new jails to hold everybody.

                40

              • #
                ExWarmist

                KK – you are correct.

                30

          • #
            Winston

            Agree wholeheartedly, Ex.

            The fact that is seldom appreciated is that economic prosperity is the bane of the elite’s existence. They have found ways (massive debt creation, derivatives trading, currency wars) to entrench their hegemony and also in skilfully circumventing the regulations against monopolies and cartels with ease is not enough for them.

            The Great Depression, a tale of misery and suffering for most, was the greatest wealth concentrating exercise for the elite in their history, it having eliminated so many of the nouveau riche, with middle class prosperity cut off at the knees overnight. While their own gross wealth may have suffered a dent or two, their overall buying power increased by orders of magnitude, as their competitors went to the wall and their businesses were ripe for the taking at bargain basement prices.

            It is relative wealth that is important, cornering the market makes a short term “loss” irrelevant, and then FDR’s New Deal measures ensured the whole thing dragged out to its limit. Then as a piece de resistance, fomenting a global war, where the elite played both sides of the conflict, added to by the wealth generated through munitions and industry to further the war effort on both sides, and one can see that we are merely pawns in their game.

            Politics is merely the showpiece of sham democracy, none more apparent than in the U.S. where the Republicrats and the Demicans fight it out in a billion dollar charade to see who can bend over for Wall Street the furthest. Meanwhile, any politician, like Abbott, who bucks the trend and runs against the interests of TPTB, must be brought down through a complicit media campaign, staged scandals, planted evidence of impropriety- whatever it takes. That is why the globalist agenda bodes ill for decent hardworking people, it being a recipe for the further concentration of power that the elite can exploit for their gain, and, in my opinion, our demise.

            The “sustainable” population of the world has been set at 1 billion, and even the Pope is “on board”, so take a good look around you, because a lot of those people in the shopping centre or at that family gathering have been marked to not make old age. The only uncertainty being just how their lives will be cut short. I leave that to your imagination.

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          • #
            Dariusz

            Ex
            What a great summary
            ” Crypto-Feudalist”- not ” crony capitalism” as this is an insult to the best system ever devised by humanity – capitalism.
            I see Wall Street like a new feudal system. The surfs and the lords. Politician and the gullibles, The UN and the rest of the world.
            I see myself as a I “a wanderer” bewildered less and less with stupidity. Somehow I expect that the average person is not average, that analysis and thinking is normal. The lords know that this not that case.
            Unfortunately I am still learning this truth.

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            • #
              ExWarmist

              Hi Dariusz,

              I call it Crypto as it is hidden – i.e. not out on open display, and Feudalism as that seems the most apt description of the current state of affairs where a small Aristocratic elite own enough of the worlds GDP to control policy, which they then set to meet their own agendas.

              For me capitalism is about capital formation based on the delivery of innovative goods and services to meet human needs and desires in a voluntary market. And that barely exists.

              60

          • #
            Geoff Sherrington

            Hi ExWarmist,
            You do seem to have a passion about the wealthy ruling class elite, the sump into which the hard work of the many is funnelled.
            In the corporate world, I was lucky to spend more than 20 years making a small company large and rich. We added some billions in today’s money to its wealth, all generated from success in science and management. There were times when I was in a position to move into the elite class that you mention, but I was not able to because I could not identify it.
            There were a few rare cases of nepotism at high level in sister companies, no names no pack drill, but despite a really hard look, I could not find that entity that is so easy to imagine.
            Therefore, I concluded that in my limited circles, it did not exist.
            Can you disabuse me of this notion?

            30

            • #
              ExWarmist

              Hi Geoff,

              It’s an excellent question, and certainly I’m just some guy with a laptop inferring the existing of something by the shadow that it casts.

              There is a PDF research paper that can be reached here. that provides some preliminary analysis of the network from an ownership perspective. However the paper is quite limited due to the difficulty of the analysis.

              My premise is that the real owners, power operators, policy makers are in the $Billions league, and actively use their wealth to influence policy and shape public perceptions. If you were just about making money and not acquiring influence, you were probably not in the “right” circles.

              40

            • #
              gai

              Geoff Sherrington asks “…Can you disabuse me of this notion?….”
              ****************

              I can since I had a ring side seat when S. Robert Blair stomped on the toes of Shell Oil and B.P. by stealing Husky Oil and Polysar out from under their noses. After acquiring Polysar, they decided to take him down a peg. (Remember Shell Oil stockholders control the World Wildlife Fund.)

              At the time Novacor, Sweetheart Plastics and McDonalds hamburgers had a innovated deal to build a plant in Massachusetts to recycle post consumer plastic waste from McDonalds. The plant was even designed to use the handicapped as employees.

              Two weeks before the TV ads about this innovation hit the airwaves a huge media blitz hit coast to coast in the USA that Polystyrene was evil! It used Chlorofluorocarbons as a blowing agent and released CFCs into the air depleting the ozone layer! (it doesn’t) There was a whole bunch more propaganda all false but it didn’t matter the damage was done. McDonald’s panicked and switched to paper. Novacor and Sweetheart took a real hit and five plants in Massachusetts alone had to close.

              Originally the protest supposedly was started by a teacher in New Hampshire however that story was modified to a teenager single handedly started the campaign against polystyrene and she wrote a book that I found on Amazon five years ago. (Like that story is believable. We all know that the MSM never carries a big story unless they are told to.)

              This is the latest rewrite of the story:

              Environmental and Health Record

              In the 1980s McDonald’s began to come under attack for the huge volume of waste generated by the food packaging used in its restaurants. The Citizens Clearinghouse on Hazardous Wastes and other groups launched a campaign to get the company to end its use of non-biodegradable, non-recyclable polystyrene plastic foam containers. The Clearinghouse dubbed its effort the McToxics Campaign to highlight the little-publicized health effects of the foam particles that migrate from the containers into the food. Customers were urged to mail their used hamburger containers (known as clam shells because of their design) back to the company in protest.

              Both McDonald’s and the plastics industry reacted with alarm to the campaign, spending many millions of dollars to defend the clam shell. The company later agreed to work with the Environmental Defense Fund on developing ways to cut down trash by recycling packaging and testing reusable utensils and cups. This did not satisfy environmentalists, who were skeptical of the claims about the recycling of the foam containers, so the campaign continued. Then, in 1990, McDonald’s announced that it would phase out its use of plastic foam in favor of paper packaging. The change applied to food containers only; styrofoam coffee cups and plastic utensils were still to be used.

              The following year the company announced a more ambitious effort, in cooperation with the Environmental Defense Fund, to cut down its generation of solid waste. At the same time, the company opposed a proxy resolution put forth by a group of religious organizations to require observance of the Valdez Principles (Wall Street Journal, April 18, 1991), which would have required a comprehensive commitment to reducing pollutants, conserving natural resources, reducing waste, and using energy more efficiently.
              http://www.corp-research.org/mcdonalds

              How do I know all this? My Boss was the chief engineer who designed the plant. (I am still upset that his great design never made it into reality.)

              40

          • #
            gai

            America’s Ruling Class is an article that fleshes out your idea that the Democrats and the Republicans are the same.

            60% of Americans Want a Third Party Candidate for 2016 “Americans Are Disgusted By Both Republican and Democratic Parties”

            Poll after poll shows that both mainstream parties are deeply unpopular with the American people.

            Poll after poll shows that the American people are disgusted with the core policies of both the mainstream Democrats and Republican parties, which help the fatcats while hurting the little guy.

            Polls show that Congress is less popular than dog poop, toenail fungus, hemorrhoids, cockroaches, lice, root canals, colonoscopies, traffic jams, used car salesmen, Genghis Khan, Communism, North Korea, BP during the Gulf Oil Spill, Nixon during Watergate or King George during the American Revolution….

            No THAT is really really unpopular!

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        • #
          Bill

          Watch the election in Canada, same issues with the media party.

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      David Maddison

      The problem is that Obama allowed illegal immigrants to get driver’s licenses. California has just allowed anyone with a driver’s license to register to vote. I am quite certain that the illegals won’t be voting for the Republicans…

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        Rereke Whakaaro

        I am not so sure. It is likely that illegals will vote for safety, and that means voting the way their boss tells them to.

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        toorightmate

        Women can now drive in Saudi Arabia – provided the car they are driving is wearing a Burqua.

        (The Burquas are better at Hungry Jacks)

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        Roy Hogue

        That illegals can manage to vote at all is an offense against the whole country and the Constitution. Likewise, there have been fraudulent ballots and more than one vote by the same person. It subverts the one process that we need to keep sacrosanct.

        I’m surprised that we tolerate it. But that’s the level to which we have descended.

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          Bill

          In Canada we brought in the Fair Elections Act that requires valid ID in order to vote, the left consider this a human rights violation.

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            Roy Hogue

            We need it here too. And the left fights it with all the weight of the Department of Justice. So unless the administration changes from lefthanded to righthanded, good luck!

            But here’s the rub. I don’t like the idea that I need to prove who I am in order to vote in my native country. My word should be sufficient. I’ll do no better than tolerate voter ID because of the dishonesty that has taken over.

            It’s a truly shameful commentary on the state of our once proud nation that we need to show our papers at every turn. I was born with the right to vote once I turned 21.

            I can’t go to my bank and write a check to myself to get pocket cash anymore without “showing my papers”. Every teller recognizes me but suddenly I’m suspected of some sort of… …exactly what I’m not sure… …by official dictate of the bank regulators and the bank. It smacks of dictatorship and government control of the people and I think you can easily imagine what I mean. :-(

            And given our Second Amendment to the Constitution, I feel the same way about gun registration — even more opposed to that than voter ID. I don’t mind being put through a background check or even being required to show proof of having passed an approved gun safety course. We need to keep guns out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them, including those who may be quite honest but can’t demonstrate that they can handle them safely. But once I’ve done those things, keep the record of my purchase and the gun(s)’s serial numbers out of Sacramento and DC. I’ve a Constitutional right to have the gun(s). And the worst of it is, the criminal doesn’t obey the law so all the background checks and registration amounts to nothing anyway. The bad guy is armed and the citizen on whom he preys is helpless. Gun free zones are where all the mass shootings have taken place. They don’t run into police headquarters where nearly everyone around is armed to start shooting people. They go where their prey is helpless.

            The government is armed but the citizen upon whom they prey is also helpless.

            A quick note on the stupidity of it all — California requires the purchase of an approved trigger lock with every gun, also a lockable storage box or safe. How much longer do you think it will take to get that gun ready to defend yourself in the middle of the night if you have that trigger lock in place or have it in a locked safe or box? How many gun owners do you think actually use those items? :-(

            00

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      Stephan

      A ‘brave’ prediction (though not as brave as predicting imminent global cooling) since the bookies have given him only a 5% chance of winning the nomination and 1% chance of winning the presidency.

      The bookies’ most likely outcome? Clinton 2.0 (and you better believe I will be rocking up here and on Catallaxy to milk the tears of rage).

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        Stephan

        I’ll also have to pay drive-by visits to Blair, Bolta and MichaelSmithNews to round out my Aussie wail-watching tour, before heading on to Fox News for the real belly laughs.

        Oh my god, next year is gonna be great!

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          Roy Hogue

          I remember a certain newspaper that printed up the election news the night before, being convinced of the outcome. The headline read, “Dewy elected.”

          Unfortunately Truman was elected in spite of the morning edition. :-( or :-) depending on your preference. The voters are sometimes unpredictable.

          So I would not count my chickens before they hatch. But next year is certainly going to be the best political circus in a long time.

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          James Murphy

          Stephan,
          I’m still waiting for your answer to the following questions in something resembling a coherent and logical manner, which, admittedly would be a dramatic departure from your usual rantings and ravings.

          Can you tell me what the climate would be doing if the industrial revolution never happened? How do you define normal climate, vs abnormal climate without a reference, and if you were to define a reference, how would you do it, given the inherent variability of the earths climate?

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            Carbon500

            James Murphy: You ask: “Can you tell me what the climate would be doing if the industrial revolution never happened? How do you define normal climate vs abnormal climate without a reference, and if you were to define a reference, how would you do it, given the inherent variability of the Earth’s climate?”
            I’ve always rather liked the following clear archaeological evidence as to what was going on before the industrial revolution. It shows that yes indeed, there was a medieval warming period – at least in Europe. There’s plenty of food for thought here, and the details are easily found on the internet for anyone to check for themselves.
            The Schnidejoch pass, at an altitude of 2756 metres above sea level, lies in the Wildhorn region of the western Bernese Alps in Switzerland.
            Between 2003 and 2010 numerous archaeological finds were recovered from a melting ice patch in the Schnidejoch. These finds date from the Neolithic period, the early Bronze Age, the Iron Age, Roman times, and the Middle Ages, altogether spanning a period of 6000 years and providing some of the earliest evidence of Neolithic human activity at high altitude in the Alps.
            The abundant finds include artifacts made mainly from organic materials such as leather, wood, bark, and fibres.
            The site clearly proves access to high-mountain areas as early as the 5th millennium BC. The chronological distribution of the finds indicates that the Schnidejoch pass was used mainly during periods when glaciers were retreating.
            All this glacial advance and retreat over millenia with no industrialisation and fossil fuel burning!

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            • #
              James Murphy

              Thank you, I have to admit I do have a passing interest in archaeology, though geology pays the bills. I dispute nothing of what you say, because I realise that the climate has changed in the past, and will continue to change in the future. It is people like ‘Stephan” who still seem to think there is some merit to the ‘hockey stick’, with the erroneous and simplistic view that the climate only changes due to (modern) human action.

              This is why I am repeatedly asking Stephan and his narrow-minded ilk to provide me with an idea of what the climate should be doing – how can anyone claim it is abnormal if there is no credible baseline to work from? (and how does one decide what that baseline is, anyway?) With a system as complex as the ears climate, can our extremely low data resolution (and data by proxy) from the past, really be used to reliably predict what is in the future, when we don’t really understand why such things as the medieval warming period occurred?

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          handjive

          Listen very carefully. I will say this only once:

          No-one gives a flying * about your typical retarded progressive obsession of order, where everything is pigeon-holed with neatly alphabet & colour coded written labels.

          Good luck with your drive-by trolling around the traps. Hitler had small dick, too.

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          RB

          I’ll also have to pay drive-by visits to Blair, Bolta and MichaelSmithNews to round out my Aussie wail-watching tour, before heading on to Fox News for the real belly laughs.

          Oh my god, next year is gonna be great!

          Are you a troll? You seem to lack some self awareness.

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          toorightmate

          I am still trying to work our whether the USA was worse off when Oh Bummer was in power or now, when he is doing nothing.

          Is he attending the Putin lectures on “how to wage war”?

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          James Bradley

          Stephan,

          Elections are like toilet paper – they wipe everything clean until the next one.

          Dance, sing, laugh – do what you like – eventually you’ll be on the crying side.

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            Stephan

            I’m not particularly looking forward to Clinton’s presidency, she’s always been a corporatist and war-hawk who’d be quite at home in the Republican Party before it took a sharp Right turn off the planet with the Teabagger debacle etc. The best thing to be said would be that it prevent the utter freak-show that is the current Republican Party getting into the white house. And hopefully some of Bernie Sanders’ anti-electoral funding corruption drive will rub off on her.

            05

            • #
              ExWarmist

              Hi Stephan,

              There is no distinction between republicans and democrats that matters.

              You write …

              And hopefully some of Bernie Sanders’ anti-electoral funding corruption drive will rub off on her.

              I see that you acknowledge that the legislative arm of government can be co-opted by those with money.

              What about the regulative actions of government, what about international government institutions – are they somehow immune to the lure of corruption?

              Here is evidence of Citibank writing financial regulations.

              You rail against the republicans and corporatist interests – and yet fail to see that the UN serves the same masters.

              Why on earth do you think that if there are people who are rich enough and powerful enough to co-opt the US Government – that they would give the UN a free pass?

              Of course they wouldn’t. They would co-opt everything to their agendas.

              Corporatism? Your a shill for Corporatism. Your batting for a movement that thrives on the exploitation of humanity.

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                Stephan

                The UN is an absolute joke. Yes I am well-aware and concerned about regulatory capture, one of the most ubiquitous forms of corruption in modern-day democracy. The solution to this though, is not ‘more’ or ‘less’ government, it’s things like curtailment and transparency of electoral funding, and ruthless ICAC-like bodies watching over every jurisdiction and level of government.

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        • #
          Egor TheOne

          The ultimate drive – by you will be doing will be in your New World Order Uniform >>>>

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straitjacket#mediaviewer/File:Straitjacket-rear.jpg

          In the meantime ,just keep collecting your Red Thumbs Down ……your one and only expertise !!!

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrd3HYU80Dk

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      • #
        el gordo

        Political outcomes are harder to predict than climate change, too many variables.

        30

        • #
          John Robertson

          Of recent decades not so much.
          Regardless of who we elect, the rate of theft of productive time and effort has accelerated.
          The ratio of taker/maker as steadily increased.From fractions to real numbers.
          The ratio of ruler-regulator to productive citizen has steadily moved in the direction of chaos.
          So vote however we want, it is a choice between thieves and bandits, with a smattering of fools to round it out.
          So I predict the political outcome, this way.
          We vote, we lose.
          Perhaps it has to break before it can be braked.

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          • #
            el gordo

            ‘We vote, we lose.’

            In Australia we have compulsory voting, it works well.

            ‘a choice between thieves and bandits’

            Ted Cruz is married to a Goldman Sachs leading light, just sayin’…

            ‘Perhaps it has to break before it can be braked.’

            Cheap immigrant labor should stave off revolution.

            50

            • #
              gai

              Nice tidbit on Cruz wife Heidi Nelson Cruz who works at Goldman Sachs as a managing director in Houston.

              What’s with all these Goldman Sachs political connections?

              40

          • #
            Manfred

            JR, your comment sounds like an echo of ‘Atlas Shrugged’ (Ayn Rand)
            Possibly one of the most extraordinary reads I’ve ‘enjoyed’ for a long time.
            Should perhaps be compulsory reading together with ’1984′.

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        • #
          gai

          I figure we will somehow end up with Jeb the Twig.

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        James Bradley

        Stephan,

        You write: “A ‘brave’ prediction (though not as brave as predicting imminent global cooling)… ”

        I say: Considering all the peer reviewed papers that, despite increasing atmospheric CO2, have verified the 18+ year pause by attempting to explain reasons for it – I’d say there’s a better than even chance of a global cooling.

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          Stephan

          When you say “pause”, you actually mean “pause in average global surface temperatures, not counting the oceans (where almost all the relevant thermal mass is) or polar regions (where surface warming happens to be the most pronounced)”, right?

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            AndyG55

            Antarctic has been cooling for quite a while.

            So is the North Pole region since the AMO started to reverse.

            http://s19.postimg.org/u68pv0vg3/UAH_No_Pol1.jpg

            You have been caught in a LIE again, chicken-little.

            There is also cooling in the southern Pacific and a cold patch in the North Atlantic.

            The only warmer patch is the El Nino equatorial Pacific, and once that subsides, global ocean cooling will set in.

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          • #
            • #
              AndyG55

              And a better one

              Look at real data, chicken-little.. see what is really happening.

              Can you manage that, or are you stuck with the low-information MSM/twitter junk cycle. ?

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              • #
                el gordo

                Looking at the Southern Ocean there is something going on, the drop in temperature is pronounced.

                My guess its related to the Subtropical Ridge’s southerly excursion, it could be a cause or possibly just an effect.

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              • #
                clive

                Only “Twits”use Twitter.Says it all really.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            And remember.. we are still only just above the coldest period in the last 10,000 years.

            https://edmhdotme.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/screen-shot-2015-05-25-at-11-09-40.png

            Cooling is the very last thing this planet needs at the moment, another degree or 2 of warming would be highly beneficial, taking us back up near the a abundance of the RWP..

            But it just isn’t happening, mores the pity.

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            James Bradley

            Stephan,

            Looks like another of your sweeping statements for the banal has been nicely rebutted by all and sundry once again.

            23

          • #
            James Bradley

            And Stephen, you still haven’t responded to the data I gave you on the Cooked Consensus – here it is again just in case:

            http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/media/erl460291datafile.txt

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            Egor TheOne

            *Stephan
            October 18, 2015 at 12:04 pm · Reply
            When you say “pause”, you actually mean “pause in average global surface temperatures, not counting the oceans (where almost all the relevant thermal mass is) or polar regions (where surface warming happens to be the most pronounced)”, right?*

            Is this the Thermal Mass you’re talking about >>> https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/clip_image024_thumb.jpg?w=603&h=427

            And as for “average global surface temperatures “, RSS satellite temp measurements measures everywhere except the poles ….both land and sea >>>> https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/clip_image002_thumb1.jpg?w=597&h=279

            I know that facts are not your strong suit , but sea ice is about the same also ….a little less in the arctic , but more in the antarctic >>>> Arctic Interactive >>>>

            http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/arctic.sea.ice.interactive.html

            Antarctic Interactive >>>> http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/antarctic.sea.ice.interactive.html

            So where is all this warming , besides the hot air coming from your posts ????

            And if it is warming , then why did your High Priests Change Their Mantra from Global Warming to Climate Change ???

            Or is it Global Warming in Summer , Global Cooling in Winter , and Climate Change during Autumn and Spring ???

            And as for increases in bad weather , such as Cyclones , Hurricanes and Typhoons …..That’s crap also >>>> http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/180CO2/bayreuth/hurri-e.gif

            Yo Stephan , what’s it like to have a Factless Faith ????

            Give up your bad religion ,and come and join some people who live in the REAL world !

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            James Murphy

            Stephan,
            You have yet again failed to attempt to respond to my quite reasonable questions (as you have also neglected to do with James Bradley). I invite you to at least try, if it isn’t too..errr..taxing…

            Can you tell me what the climate would be doing if the industrial revolution never happened? How do you define normal climate, vs abnormal climate without a reference, and if you were to define a reference, how would you do it, given the inherent variability of the earths climate?

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            • #
              Stephan

              The climate has been pretty stable for the last 10K years. Yes, it would eventually change significantly with or without us, but no need to hurry it out of stability before we have time to adapt.

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                James Murphy

                wow, an attempt an answer, i suppose I should be grateful – but sadly for you, it just generates more questions.

                Why do you choose 10000 years as a cut-off point – Why do you imply that anything which happened prior to the last glaciation is irrelevant in terms of climate?
                How can the climate be considered stable whilst it transitions from glacial to inter-glacial? (you don’t seriously think that 10000 year value is absolute, do you?)
                What does ‘pretty stable’ actually mean?
                What is ‘normal climate? (even if you define the interval as the last 10000 years). You do realise it has been quite variable over that timescale, don’t you?

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                AndyG55

                Wow, talk about a weak, empty response.

                You really don’t have anything to offer to rational discussion, do you chicken-little.

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            The word “pause” is misleading and wrong.

            Pause implies that warming will soon continue — no one knows that.

            Pause also ignores reasonable margins or error (more than +/- 0.1 degree C. that NASA claims)

            Including margins of error, the average temperature is either slightly higher, slightly lower, or about the same since the early 2000s (I’m summarizing all five average temperature sources — two satellite and three surface measurement compilations).

            Our planet is always warming or cooling.

            Ice core studies suggest several hundred years of warming and several hundred years of cooling is a typical cycle.

            So the 1850 Modern Warming could still be in progress, or perhaps it ended in the early 2000s?

            No one knows.

            I hope for global cooling in the next two decades, as many astronomers have been predicting.

            That seems like the only way to halt the nti-economic growth climate change juggernaut.

            I’m assuming enough cooling for people to notice — NASA / NOAA could arbitrarily “adjust” the temperature data and NEVER show any cooling in their “adjusted” temperature numbers.

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      Don

      Ted Cruz has no chance to be president. He is a brilliant guy, but is too smarmy to win an election in the television era.

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  • #
    Mike Flynn

    Gee. Who’da thought that plants grow better if you feed them better? Next you’ll be telling me the same thing applies to humans!

    Nonsense! Listen to the Warmists! You all have to die to be saved from the evil scourge of CO2! Bring on the final solution! Get rid of CO2!

    Mwahahaha (Dr Evil laugh.)

    Cheers.

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    el gordo

    The other day Blair Trewin (BOM) confirmed on national television that the belt of high pressure (Sub Tropical Ridge) is traveling too far south.

    There has been talk of this at BOM for many years, but this is the first time I’ve seen it writ large. The inference is that its caused by global warming.

    What he didn’t say is this same belt of high pressure was too far south in winter and assisted in bringing Antarctic weather to southern Australia.

    How quickly we forget the frigid winter and late Spring.

    Anyway, the real cause of the STR wandering in the Roaring Forties remains a mystery.

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      el gordo

      ‘The other key driver in autumn and early winter is the location of the high-pressure systems, known as the subtropical ridge. In recent years, the highs have been further south. That has made it harder for fronts and weather systems to bring rain to southern Australia.’

      Andrew Watkins (BoM)

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    • #
      Ava Plaint

      It looks like that web site may be in trouble.

      “Change.org · The world’s platform for change
      https://www.change.org › ”

      Le serveur est en panne.

      Another operation by French Intelligence ?

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      Sceptical Sam

      Petition; Philippe Verdier

      Philippe Verdier is an honest Frenchman. So was Alfred Dreyfus. The French nation has never lived down that appalling persecution. Is Philippe Verdier to be the next Alfred Dreyfus?

      Jean-François Revel explains in his book “Flight from Truth : The Reign of Deceit in the Age of Information” how politicians, scientists, educators and the media give up truth to follow their own agenda propagated by fallacies. Is Philippe Verdier to be further proof of Revel’s argument? Perhaps the employer of Mr Verdier should read “Flight from Truth”. At the same time they might also read Revel’s lecture given in the Netherlands in 1975 titled: “La Tentation Totalitaire”; because it seems that is where France is headed.

      The persecution of Philippe Verdier is unworthy of a great and democratic country with the history of scientific and journalistic integrity like France. Why has France forsaken its honour and decided to persecute those who seek to expose the truth? French honour deserves better. The French people deserve better.

      As Lauret Fabius, the former French socialist Prime Minister, and President of the upcoming IPCC Paris COP21 conference has put it: “Socialism is a direction”. Yes. It is. And yes, the truth is cruel. Is the removal of hard won freedoms to be part of that socialist direction in France, Mr Fabius?

      S’il vous plaît pardonnez la traduction de Google.

      Pétition; Philippe Verdier

      Je me demande ce qu’il est advenu à la pensée indépendante et la liberté que tant d’hommes et de femmes françaises se sont battus et sont morts pour?

      Philippe Verdier est un honnête Français. Ainsi était Alfred Dreyfus. La nation française n’a jamais vécu bas que la persécution épouvantable. Est-Philippe Verdier pour être le prochain Alfred Dreyfus?

      Jean-François Revel explique dans son livre “Vol de Vérité: Le Règne de la tromperie dans l’ère de l’information” comment les politiciens, les scientifiques, les éducateurs et les médias donnent jusqu’à la vérité de suivre leur propre agenda propagée par les illusions. Philippe Verdier est d’être une preuve supplémentaire de l’argument de Revel? Peut-être l’employeur de M. Verdier devrait lire “Vol de Vérité”. Dans le même temps, ils pourraient également lire la conférence de Revel donné aux Pays-Bas en 1975 intitulé: “La Tentation totalitaire”; car il semble que ce soit où la France est dirigée.

      La persécution de Philippe Verdier est indigne d’un grand pays et démocratique de l’histoire de l’intégrité scientifique et journalistique comme la France. Pourquoi la France a abandonné son honneur et a décidé de persécuter ceux qui cherchent à exposer la vérité? L’honneur français mérite mieux. Les Français méritent mieux.

      Comme Lauret Fabius, ancien Premier ministre socialiste français, et président de la prochaine conférence du GIEC Paris COP21 l’a mis: “Le socialisme est une direction”. Oui. C’est. Et oui, la vérité est cruelle. Est la suppression des libertés durement gagnée de faire partie de cette direction socialiste en France, M. Fabius?

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      I signed the petition.

      Remember Martin Niemöller. “First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
      Because I was not a Socialist.” …

      Well, as it happens, I am a skeptic. And I will speak up.

      Before they come for me.

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  • #

    The subject of the use of spelling (U.S. versus English/Australian) was mentioned on an earlier Thread, and being an Unthreaded here, I thought I would expand on that.

    Contributing to a large U.S. based blog as I do, the owner has sometimes picked me up on some things, not in the form of chastisement, but mainly from curiosity, as sometimes, I use some Australian venacular, not in the form of foul language, but just the things Aussies say, and all but take for granted.

    Two sayings he particularly likes now, which he hadn’t heard of prior to my mentioning them, were:

    1. In the context of frenziedly running around with little intent, and here I used the Australian “like a chook with its head cut off.” In point of fact, the first question he did ask when he saw that was ….. “what’s a Chook?”

    2. In the context of being very busy, and here I used “flat out, like a lizard drinking.”

    He tells me he now uses those two particular sayings regularly, and always gets similar comments. (Huh!)

    With respect to the use of the English language, as I (slowly) got into reading novels, I started off with the early and mid 20th Century Americans, John O’Hara, Calder Willingham, and Irving Wallace, and, later in life, James Michener. As an Australian, some of the language was specific to the time, and also the home of particular author, especially O’Hara.

    It wasn’t too difficult to get the idea, but sometimes it wasn’t easy to comprehend, and again, it just showed how you became used to the use of the (same) English language, wherever you happened to be brought up.

    When my beloved Father In Law passed away, he left me three books I had specifically asked for.

    The first was a Bible, a New World Translation dated 1971, a large illustrated reference Bible and that sits alongside my treasured Thompson’s Chain Reference Bible, also dated 1971.

    The second was Dr. Hollick’s Complete Works – The Origins Of Life dated 1902. An early and comprehensively illustrated medical book, an amazing piece of work really, considering the time it was dated.

    The third was a Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, Fifth Edition, dated 1941, and that sits alongside my Macquarie Encyclopedic.

    That old Websters is a huge illustrated dictionary, an amazing reference really, and used on average once or twice a week. There are so many words that have either fallen out of favour, or are just not used any more, and I will often compare words with the description from the earlier dictionary.

    With respect to the use of language, early on, I asked my site’s owner if he would prefer it if I used the American spelling, and he was almost adamant that I kept the English spelling for all my writings.

    If any of you are interested in novels by those early authors I mentioned, they’re not easy to find, and O’Hara was probably the best of them. I’ll give you my favourite from all of those authors, and I feel this would give you the best of them.

    John O’Hara – From The Terrace, and as a second Ourselves To Know.

    Irving Wallace – The Word. Also, maybe The Man, an unbelievable fiction of something so totally out of the question, a black man becoming president of the U.S. something positively outrageous in 1964, when it was first published.

    Calder Willingham – Eternal Fire, and maybe throw in Providence Island as well.

    James Michener – Chesapeake, with Centennial and Texas as three good novels for Australians wanting to learn about the U.S. as Michener closely wove his fiction around facts of the time, and that’s what made his novels so interesting for me.

    Just a question here too. I’m also keen on Science Fiction (not Fantasy) and at the moment I quite like the English author Peter F Hamilton. Have any of you out there read his Great North Road. It’s probably up there with some of the early SF authors, and I only read three of them I liked, Asimov, Heinlein, and ‘Doc’ Smith’s Lensman Series, and seriously, if any of you are interested in SF, you can’t go past that Lensman Series. I’ve read all six/seven of them three times across the years, and I never get sick of them.

    Reading is that guilty sin I now think of as one of life’s real pleasures.

    Tony.

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      Tony

      For another look at USA as it was try Steinbeck’s “Travels with Charley”. And for some other things “the Log from the Sea of Cortez”.

      In the different use of English. As a post grad we from Oz were amazed at the number of sweet young females that were going to root for the team. I worked out that a round about way of explaining the difference was that here it was physically possible but not quite socially acceptable. One expression I heard there was pulling a train.

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      gnome

      EE Smith’s stuff is a bit like the Harry Potter books. Whenever there’s a problem someone discovers that there’s a spell to save the hero. How is that not “fantasy”?

      What a person reads without direction from above though, is a very personal and usually idiosyncratic matter. Just as you seem to have discovered, the exercise of free choice in fiction often leads to consumption of lots of US authors because they are just so damned professional in their craft.

      Asimov etc came from a simpler time when books were shorter because manuscripts were so much more tedious to produce on a typewriter than they are on a word processor. There were a number of other US writers doing the same sort of stuff at the time (the names Algis Budrys and Arthur C Clark spring to mind and so would a few others in a period of quiet reflection) but if you were in the mood to go back to those times in your reading have a retrospective look at John Wyndham and consider Edgar Pangborn. I go through periods* when I consider “Davy” the best novel ever written. Fascinating stuff- even set in a world drowned by post-apocalyptic warming.

      A shame you reject fantasy, because I find Gene Wolfe just a little shy of riveting, and well worth a visit.

      And I do love a good never-ending story. Any recommendations out there?

      *Brief periods because I always go back to agonising over whether it’s “Zorba the Greek”, “Christ Recrucified” or “The Last Temptation”.

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      gnome

      Anyway – you’re a Queenslander Tony. These days that should be “a shay with it’s head cut off”.

      (Apologies all others- only a Queenslander would really understand, even when we explain it. A shay is a czuk in the Qld Parliament)

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      Leo Morgan

      I’ve read some of the books you recommend. Since they are among my favourite books ever, I must check out the others.
      Can I return the favour? The closest modern equivalent of the Lensman series is Vernor Vinge’s ‘A Fire upon the Deep’ and ‘A Deepness in the Sky’. Fear of spoilers means I don’t want to say anything about them to anyone who hasn’t read them. Read them in the order nominated. Enjoy them. Thank me later. I’m keen to discuss them with someone who’s just finished reading them for the first time.
      His other books are of variable quality. Some are very good books indeed. These two are great books.
      Equally, I recommend the work of Lois McMaster Bujold. Not perfect, but close. Like you I have a vast preference for Science Fiction over Fantasy. Unlike you, I often do read Fantasy, mostly because I can’t get enough good Science Fiction. Lois has also written fantasy. All of it good. Not necessarily all of it to your taste, but I recommend her Chalion series as the very best I’ve ever read.
      I acknowledge your expressed distaste for fantasy. If you ever feel like challenging your tastes, you want it to be high quality.

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        Leo, nice comments. Thanks for the tips.

        It’s odd really.

        I only picked up Triplanetary on the off chance. That was book one in The Lensman Series. I didn’t even read it for a couple of Months. Then, intrigued, I got the rest of them, but had to wait until I found the correct order for them, as I had to really search for them.

        After reading them all, I was hooked.

        I then went out and chased up his earlier Skylark Series, and then the following Family D’Alembert books. They were just dull really.

        He did his best work with Lensman.

        That’s why I mentioned the Peter F Hamilton novel Great North Road. I had read and enjoyed his Night’s Dawn trilogy. Great North Road combined SF with crime fiction, a novel mix really, but an astonishingly good read, intriguing and really well done, and I haven’t come across anyone else who has read his work.

        I have a strong distaste for cowboy novels, and then I found Larry McMurtry’s Lonesome Dove. His sequels and prequels were average because Dove was the masterpiece. John Irving’s The Cider House Rules, the only Irving novel I liked, and the David Guterson novel Snow Falling On Cedars.

        Bob Heinlein is I suppose Fantasy, but he was just so good at it with I Will Fear No Evil and Time Enough For Love, among many.

        And Then there’s Foundation. (the original Trilogy) Where’s Hari Seldon when we need him now.

        Tony.

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          Alfred

          We say “runnin around like a chickin with its legs cut off”
          Alfred

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        • #
          AndyG55

          Tony, you might want to look for the “Lensmen” books by David A Kyle.

          ‘Z Lensman’, ‘Dragon Lensman’ , and ‘Lensman from Rigel’

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          Yonniestone

          Tony don’t know if you have ever read Xavier Herbert’s Capricornia, it has broad old Australian language throughout and would still be considered controversial today, reading this years ago made me sceptical and aware of how personal bias can be slipped into an interpretation of history.

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            Yonniestone,

            I haven’t read Capricornia, but I have read Poor Fellow My Country, by the same author, Xavier Herbert, and it’s up there on my list of the best novels I have ever read.

            There’s a problem with those monster sized novels. Friends and family see them on my book shelf, and ask, seriously, if I have actually read them, or just keep them there for the sake of appearance.

            The size, in page length, is the problem, I think, because people don’t want to commit that time to read something of that length.

            Just four of them, Tolstoy’s War And Peace, Hugo’s Les Miserables, Rand’s Atlas Shrugged, and the Herbert novel I mentioned are all those long books, and committing the time to each of them is something I was glad I did, because they are all great reads.

            You need to realise here that Poor Fellow is the sixth longest novel ever written, and at almost 1500 pages of tiny print, it is 400 pages longer than Atlas Shrugged. There are many good Australian novels worth reading, but this one and Frank Hardy’s Power Without Glory are two of the best of them.

            As much as I tell people that Atlas Shrugged will be the best thing they ever read in their lives, they actually have to take the time to read it, and be ….. ready to read it, and I have never had anyone say they didn’t like it after I recommended it, but they have to find the time.

            In a day and age when a text on a phone which is longer than one screen is too big, then novels of those sizes are out of the question.

            But the sense of satisfaction when you finish them is a real buzz.

            Those long novels I mentioned are hard to find these days, but so worth looking for, finding, and then reading.

            Tony.

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              Yonniestone

              I actually enjoyed the style of his writing, but it’s good to develop a sceptical mind when being told in a subtle ‘this was how it was’ manner, some of the old Australian slang used was language I grew up with in regional Victoria that encompassed UK, European even Chinese that has since quickly been forgotten, I recently regaled some young blokes on the art of cockney rhyming slang, I felt about 100! LOL :)

              20

          • #
            KinkyKeith

            Some time back Tony pointed to the Boney series which I had already started to read and also Poor Fella My Country.

            Have also read Capricornia.

            Both Xavier Herbert’s books were in some sense the same book and I do remember vaguely thinking that there was bit of a personal slant to his writing but was able to cope with it.

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            • #

              KinkyKeith,

              I have a soft spot for Arthur Upfield, probably one of Australia’s most under-rated authors.

              The good thing about that series is that you can pick any book at all and read it, and not have to be concerned that it might follow on from an earlier novel.

              While ostensibly, crime fiction, it is way much more than that, a window on Australia.

              The first one was published in 1929, and the last of the 29 of them in 1966, almost two years after his passing.

              They give insight into that almost 40 years of Australiana.

              In fact, probably the most difficult thing to find in any of his novels was references back to earlier novels.

              He was sympathetic to the plight of the indigenous people long before it became politically correct and then trendy, and he knew more about them than a lot of people gave him credit for.

              Perhaps one or two may have seemed a little corny, if that’s the word at all, but he mastered the craft of what he was doing very early on.

              A couple of his titles have suffered because of political correctness, and have been changed to delete the not politically correct assumption the title might infer. A couple of titles were also changed for the American market as well, much to Upfield’s distaste. Upfield was hugely popular in the U.S. and Doubledays couldn’t get them quickly enough, and in fact they were the first publishers of 18 of the 29.

              Upfield wrote 8 novels from 1929 till 1940.

              When Doubleday became publisher of first choice, he wrote the remaining 21 novels from 1945 till he died in 1964.

              Tony.

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                Yonniestone

                Another bonus to meeting Mrs Yonnie 19 years ago was her collection of great Australian novels that was purchased as a set, they had all the ones mentioned including Frank Clunes’ ‘Wild Colonial Boys’ which was the amazing story of Ben Hall and a great insight into early Australian history, Clune was considered outspoken for his time and even though a supporter of Australian Aborigines held little back in his descriptions of researched events of early settlement.

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      toorightmate

      Tony,
      The correct American spelling is OH BUMMER.

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      bobl

      I loved the Lensman series, my all-time favourites. I used to have the whole series in hardcover.

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      gai

      Tony,
      When my husband was assigned to Germany, I bought and transported all the works of Asimov and Heinlein. I was ever so grateful to find another SF addict had the complete works of ‘Doc’ Smith so we did a lot of book swapping. I read the entire lot in less than a year.

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      • #

        gai,

        like you, I think I have read (nearly) all of Asimov, Heinlein, and ‘Doc’ Smith, and the worst thing about that is that (most) everything else in SF and Fantasy looks average by comparison.

        That’s why I was so astonished by Peter F Hamilton, as his SF was the only ones that made me go back for a second book, and I’ve read a few of his, none disappointing.

        Tony.

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        • #
          gai

          Tony,

          Thanks for the tip. I used to get Analog when Campbell was editor. After he was no longer editor the quality just seem to hit the skids. It is tough to beat a lineup with Asimov, Heinlein, Schmidt, Poul, Hal Clement…

          Also I think SF was a lot more optimistic back in the 60s and early 1970s and a lot more science based. I got hooked on SF at age 9 by the school librarian who managed to convince the school to buy Analog. I then hooked my Dad on it. I think one of my most embarrassing moments was coming home my Freshman year in college to find Mon reading Heinlein’s Time Enough for Love. She asked for the rest of his books.

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            gai,

            it’s funny you should mention parents here.

            I went through life till the age of 22 before finding another person with the same Christian name as I have, Anton.

            It never worried me, and in fact was a source of secret pride, as I was the only one with that name. Right from childhood, I was always called Tony, so that nickname stuck.

            In my twenties, I asked Mum how they gave me that very specific name, not the French Antoine, or Anthony or even Antony.

            My father was an avid reader of SF, before he went blind from the Diabetes he had from his young childhood. He got Mum interested in SF as well.

            I was the first born of five children, and they were both only 21 when I was born. My Mum mentioned that just prior to my birth, they were reading a SF short story and the main character’s name was Anton. They both liked the name, and I was given it not long after when I was born.

            In my late teens and early 20′s, I was already an Asimov fan, mainly from Nightfall, and then Foundation, and wanting to expand, I got hold of a Bob Heinlein novel, and that first was I Will Fear No Evil, and from there I then chased up everything I could lay my hands on from both Asimov and Heinlein. I did get others but they were in the main pretty average.

            Hamilton is basically the first one I have really liked since then. Some Arthur Clarke’s are okay I guess, but that’s about all I really have liked, other than the occasional one from others.

            Tony.

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          Bill

          Try Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time Series. Great imagery and political/personal backgrounding

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    David Maddison

    I regularly get flyers in my letterbox saying that someone will come and replace all my incandescent downlights for free. I’m sure someone’s making money out of this. I gather they are exploiting some sort of government subsidy and before the ETS was shut down, exploiting that somehow as well. This is in VIC. Does anyone know how this works?

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      If the flyer doesn’t mention who the sponsor is, it is probably a scam, to permit the “installers” to “inspect” your property.

      Even if they do mention a sponsor, phone that sponsor up (using the number listed in the phone book, or the online public directory) and verify the offer with them, and ask if any of their staff are working in the area, and if so, do they carry official documentation.

      It is very easy for people to gain entrance to your property, identify anything of value, and then wait down the street for you to leave for work, or the local club, and then break in and grab the good stuff, and scarper.

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        Graeme No.3

        I got a phone call and I was completely taken in. They claimed to be doing it on behalf of the South Australia government, and I thought that it was highly probable said Government would be involved in some costly interference with people’s lives.
        Unfortunately for the caller I had to decline because I didn’t have any ceiling down lights.

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      Ava Plaint

      Good advice Rereke. Here’s one talks about replacing your halogen down lights only,
      http://www.energymakeovers.com.au/can-i-have-free-lights/
      Everything else a charging opportunity. Oh and there’s a callout fee if you have less than about 8 to change.
      People seem to have little idea how little you save by changing light bulbs.
      Heating & AirCon ar an of magnitude more significant.

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    jaymam

    I think this is worth a post by itself. These professors at Victoria University are saying that the UN must agree to reduce global CO2 emissions to zero before the end of the century, and that the sea-level rise could be up to 10 metres above present day level.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11529762

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Academia is no longer about scholarsip, it seems.

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      TdeF

      This is more STIWTGO stuff (1966 film, Stop the world I want to get off). Stop everything you are doing and the world will be saved. All this is also on their presumably infallible computer models of ice in antarctica? Why does every modern scientist publicly imply his computer model is infallible? What if it is utterly wrong? However their modelling of the ice sheet in Antarctica is just a computer program which represents their view of what is going on. There is the real possibility that they are completely wrong.

      Besides, change is normal. Seas rise and fall, sometimes dramatically. So does CO2 and everything else. The old Rome of Christ is buried 15 metres under the new Rome. You can get permission from the Vatican to walk along the old cemetery streets under St. Peters. The port of Ostia is 40km inland. To save this port, the Pope required Catholics to eat fish on Fridays. It didn’t save the port. Cities are buried, canals silt up, like the one which doomed Bruges to irrelevance and accidentally turned it into one of the prettiest tourist places in the world. Not everything is bad. People have to move or build dykes as in the Nederlands.

      However to read this deliberately scary ‘science’ stuff, you would think the world had been stable for millions of years when the last ice age was only 10,000 years ago and so much changed over that time, rivers, droughts, monsoons, so much. These new brave scientists want to stop everything by .. doing nothing. Clever. Utterly thoughtless.

      Unfortunately for these clear thinkers, whatever happens in the next 10,000 years, humans will have to adapt. What we lack is enough energy to maintain our short term extravagant lifestyle with computers, cheap electricity, cars and planes. The fossil fuels are at least half gone. So what do they do? Jet off to a mega conference in Paris to discuss doing nothing at all to solve any real problem, just raising taxes, carbon capture (not photosynthesis) and building more windmills. Again, such clever people and always wanting more money with another scare based on yet another infallible computer model.

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        TdeF

        Familiar as I am with computer models of complex systems, the very presumption that creating a computer program to simulate a theoretical explanation for a very complex problem makes it correct is so ridiculous that I cannot believe people argue this. No real scientist would say such a thing. This sort of article is rubbish. Science must be proven first.

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          TdeF

          Then for a model to have any credibility, it must perfectly fit the past. No one bothers. Only then can you make a prediction about the future and that prediction must come true. What possesses people to create computer models and present them as correct without proof?

          It reminds me of the Australian film, the castle where dad praises his son for digging a hole. Then his other son was an “ideas man”. Is this the state of professional public service academic rigor, that merely making a computer model is proof and any such model is infallible?

          30

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            David Maddison

            Don’t they teach GIGO any more? (Garbage in, garbage out?)

            41

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            ExWarmist

            Mathematicians deal in proofs.

            Scientists deal in evidence.

            Engineers deal in facts.

            I see a spectrum from the abstract to the empirical.

            A Climate Scientist (TM) with a computer model is far closer to the abstract end of the spectrum – which is the opposite end of where you need to be if you are dealing with actual real world facts.

            The problem is that the Climate Scientists (TM) with their abstract computer models are providing the basis for real world policies that will have very real world impacts on peoples lives.

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      el gordo

      “The long reaction time of the Antarctic ice-sheet – which can take thousands of years to fully manifest its response to changes in environmental conditions…”

      That’s a lie.

      “… coupled with the fact that CO2 lingers in the atmosphere for a very long time…”

      Another fib.

      “… means that the warming we generate now will affect the ice-sheet in ways that will be incredibly hard to undo,” Dr Golledge said.

      Ahh … Paris calls.

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      TdeF

      “The UN must agree to reduce global CO2 emissions to zero before the end of the century
      and that the sea-level rise could be up to 10 metres above present day level”

      This does not even make proportional sense. Even if the 50% increase in CO2 was wholly caused by man and wholly caused the alleged 0.8C increase in over 100 years and a negligible sea level rise, why would a further 50% in another 100 years mean an increase of a whopping 4C and that a sea level rise of 10 metres? Why do computer models contradict simple extrapolation? Is every computer model now a Hockey stick?

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    David Maddison

    Doesn’t matter if we ever get any sensible leadership in the West after the Paris talks? We will be legally locked into the targets with seemingly no way out. Is there in fact a way to break any agreements made?

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      diogenese2

      Yes, Article 25 of the UNFCCC any party may give notice of withdrawal operative 1 year after deposition of notice. This also entails withdrawal from all protocols.
      Of course you are then no longer a party and have no say in whatever the world decides.
      Mind you, breaking any agreement in curs, as yet, no sanction or penalty. Most of the signatories of the Kyoto Protocol failed to comply. The USA, of course, complied -but never signed!

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        TdeF

        Agreed. There is no world court, no world government, no world police. Anyone can walk out of these agreements. It is all just politics and face saving and pantomime, at our expense. Mutually Assured Destruction is the only thing which has seen a world at peace since WWII. Only the Security Council actually has power. The rest is a Mad Hatter’s Tea Party.

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      el gordo

      David it appears that none of what transpires in Paris will be legally binding.

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    Alfred

    Computer Modeling

    I have seen pictures and graphs of computer models, a lot of thin lines
    of many colors described as spaghetti. Rather than spaghetti, to me they
    look more like entrails,the kind used in divination. A soothsayer runs
    his fingers over them to forecast the future calling it science.

    1Tim 6:20
    ……. avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

    We have been told to avoid such things as divination, soothsaying, enchanters
    Deut 18:10-11
    10 There shall not be found among you any one that… useth divination, or an observer of times , or an enchanter , or a witch ,
    11 Or a charmer * , or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer * .

    Jer 14-14
    …… they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought * , and the deceit of their heart

    Acts 16:16
    ……. a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying

    So it seems that the people in charge tell the modelers the results they should find so that the people in charge can scare
    everyone into paying a fee or tax so that the people in charge can protect them from doom. Sounds right to me.
    Alfred

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    Andrew McRae

    Time for me to do my pat impersonation….

    Benefits of high CO2 fail to materialize for some.

    —8<—-= ABC =—8<—-
    It has been six years since two of the largest agri-business schemes, Timbercorp and Great Southern, collapsed in spectacular fashion with combined losses of more than $1 billion.
    Thousands of investors lost their life savings and were forced to fend off banks who moved to take their homes.
    [...]
    Mr Carter poured $90,000 into the scheme, including his superannuation, hoping the return would help him put his daughter through university.
    "It's a lot of money in anybody's terms. I'm not filthy rich. That money is gone and I can't see any way of getting it back," he said.
    “Because the Government was backing it, everybody thought it was legit and it should be fine,” he said.
    [...]
    The situation is all too common after lucrative tax incentives introduced in the 1990s saw hundreds of plantations established across the country.
    The vast majority have since failed and Senator Whish-Wilson believes they were doomed from the start.
    “What we saw was this massive land grab and almost like a gold rush of trying to grow trees as quickly as possible to meet these kinds of incentives that the Government had put in place, and of course that led to a huge oversupply — no market for these trees at all,” he said.

    —8<—-= SMH =—8<—-
    Virtually all of the Great Southern region falls within the federal electorate of O'Connor – a seat held by the maverick Liberal MP Wilson Tuckey since 1980. Tuckey, as minister for forestry for three years from 1998, was a prominent advocate of the industry and of Plantation 2020
    [...]
    Slater & Gordon is examining whether clients were “inappropriately” put in the Great Southern and Timbercorp schemes by commission-hungry accountants and financial planners.
    [...]
    Great Southern, like Timbercorp and others, sank money into industry lobby groups to press the industry’s case in Canberra and elsewhere. It gave donations to political parties – $20,000 each to the Liberal Party, the National Party and Labor in the 2004-05 election year.
    [...]
    The sudden loss of support from the Howard government had exposed Great Southern’s vulnerability to policy changes and Tax Office rulings. Its sales of MIS slumped.

    * Endorsement by an entity that can’t lose money on it is a worthless endorsement.
    * Government interventions in the market create oversupplies that ruin sizes of returns. It’s…like…textbook.
    * Investment schemes with long return times that offer short-term tax deductions to attract investors can function like a Ponzi scheme.
    * Sales commissions bias the advice and pump up worthless schemes.
    * Commodities that are created by fiat can disappear by fiat just as quickly.

    We can all be very glad that no giant international carbon sequestration schemes propped up by government tax incentives are planned. ;-) Because giant international carbon sequestration schemes propped up by a currency everyone is forced to buy are completely different. Imagine if global cooling sets in 8 years after the ink is dry and it’s obvious sequestration is of no future benefit. The political pressure to drop the price will be huge. Imagine instead if all the IPCC predictions were correct and the ETS was effective in moving 50% of the world’s energy supplies away from fossil fuels. The last round of sellers will be stuck with a forest nobody needs.

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      toorightmate

      In Australia, investment in tree growing projects has proven to be folly – for the past 105 years.

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      TdeF

      You should see the vast, seemingly endless forests of Russia covering nine time zones and vast areas, rivers, mountain ranges. This growing trees in Australia was always a good idea but absurd in terms of impact on planetary CO2 levels. An idea based on a false premise based on a fantasy.

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  • #

    How about something completely different.

    Cut a strip of paper one and a half inches wide, and say about a foot long.

    Rule two straight lines down the length, a half inch apart. (so now you have three long columns down the length)

    Twist the strip once and sticky tape the ends together, so you have a loop, with the twist.

    Now, starting at where you have sticky taped the ends together, use scissors to cut along the line, and follow the line exactly all the way around the loop until you meet back at where you started the cut, and keep following the line until you meet that start point exactly.

    What do you think you will have when you’ve finished cutting?

    Tony.

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      James Murphy

      I remember seeing this done by someone when I was a young lad at some sort of pre-Questacon science/engineering public display. It’s a brilliant trick, I think.

      I still maintain that despite always having a keen interest in all things “sciencey”, these types of activities, events, and The Curiosity Show were influential with regards to my career choice, of course I should mention my mention parents who actively encouraged independent thought, deductive reasoning and logic, were unafraid to look up things they couldn’t answer themselves, and encouraged plain old observation and questioning of the world around me.

      I’m sure lots of parents are equally sensible, but I really wonder at the quality and quantity of science education, and the promotion of all things ‘STEM’ in the current Australian systems. It really does seem to be more and more focussed on vocational training, along with highly politicised topics. Take South Australia, where they pretend to have a great system involving a ‘research project’ as a whole subject at a senior school level. the topic, and presentation method are up to the student, but no one actually verifies the content, so it could be an all-singing, all-dancing amazing type of project, thus scoring very highly, but the content could very well be wrong, or not well understood by the student… or the teacher.

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    • #
      Bill

      a Mobius Loop

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    • #
      toorightmate

      That is a real pity.
      The UK is ideal for solar power because the sun is directly overhead for most of the year – you know.

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    redress

    THIS IS ABSOLUTELY DISGRACEFUL……..Shows just how far political correctness has invaded our society, and VERY worrying.

    17 hours ago this post appeared on the facebook page Bush Kids….https://www.facebook.com/bushkidsphotos?fref=ts
    Bush Kids is a page to celebrate kids of all ages, who are from the bush. If you’ve had a bush upbringing let us share our stories and photos.

    “It seems that some people are very easy to offend. If Bush Kids FB page drifts off from what some perceive to be the prescribed path that they have decided that we are to follow, then they get quite offended and leave.
    People occasionally tell me that we can’t be at all “political” here as it is not what this page is about. Well last time I looked political decisions affects each and every person in rural Australia all of the time, including bush kids who are the next generation! According to some people, the admin of this page cannot post anything that is anti the climate change agenda. The climate change scam has affected rural and regional Australia in untold ways and we have to carry the burden and the cost every day. FB locked Judi and I out and we have to wait until they do their report to see if we are allowed to stay.
    Cheers, Tricia

    PS It won’t stop me posting anti climate change material so if that offends you, then you are welcome to unlike Bush Kids as this won’t be a page for you”

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      KinkyKeith

      What has happened to farmers and people in the bush in Australia over the last 40 years is appalling.

      Because you are not in the city politicians think they can ignore you.

      A nation with real concern for its’ people would be more involved with the farming community to make sure it has what it needs to survive and progress but that doesn’t happen.

      Drought is bad enough but when subjected to biased politics it does become too much for many farmers.

      KK

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        David Maddison

        “Because you are not in the city politicians think they can ignore you.”

        They ignore city people as well…

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        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Yes.

          We in State seat of Newcastle put in a Lib and were completely shafted.

          All they wanted was scaled up height limits to developments on the board and access to old rail line

          property which was supposedly targeted, when we voted, for light rail !!!!!!

          All that after being shafted and ignored by laba for half a century or more.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    This post is probably in the category of someone that has too much time on their hands….

    I sprayed a moth with insecticide and decided to dispose of the remains in the toilet. Of course, it was so bouyant it wouldn’t flush so I thought I would add some detergent to the water thinking the lower surface tension of the water would “wet” the moth and it would then get flushed out with the body of water but that didn’t work either.

    I guess I could also have thrown toilet paper in to entangle the moth.

    Eventually, after multiple flushes it was caught by the stream of water and disappeared….

    Incidentally, you’ll be amazed at the number of YouTube videos that come up with the search term “toilet flush test”.

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      toorightmate

      This story from David introduces a new concept for “green jobs”.
      We could employ people at the water treatment facility to extract previously exterminated moths.

      What do we then do with the previously exterminated moths who have been extracted at the water treatment facility?

      I will seek a government grant to investigate this problem.

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    Time to get farmers declared eligible for the “threatened species trough”!

    Equal second most threatened on this list.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/business/work/ten-jobs-that-could-be-facing-extinction/story-fnkjjdf7-1227572660293

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    • #

      If you go to that link Ian has given us, look at the image, not specifically for what it indicates, but the safety gear he’s wearing, which is what I want to comment on, but in an obscure way.

      We have a nesting Magpie couple in a large Gum tree three homes away, and we can watch from our back patio.

      It’s the male Magpie which does the nest maintenance, and the males have their own set territory. He’s been here now for all the time we have lived in this home, now more than five years. He wanders around our back yard imperiously, ignoring us totally, and rooting for grubs, worms and lizards, and he gets plenty, and, as I have found, they listen for them, go to the spot and peck the ground, and dig out a grub or worm. He can get as close to us as about a foot or so, and shows no fear at all of us. He is the Alpha bird in our area, and we have so many birds here, which is really nice.

      His (their) nest is high up in the Gum and we only noticed it, via binoculars, when the female returned, as she does once a year. The only time he returns to the nest is when she has come back.

      The female flies in one a year back to the same place, lays the egg, tends the chick, and then when the chick is grown enough, off she goes, and all that is left is the male and the chick, as it grows, learns to fly and then hangs around for a short time, and then off it goes on its own, leaving only our male in his vast territory centred close to here.

      Like all (male) Magpies, he swoops, but only on one person I have seen in all the time we have lived here. That one person is the ‘postie’ on his little motor bike, and he is dressed exactly as you see the one in the image at Ian’s link.

      We can have motor bikes, kids on pushbikes, scooters and on foot go by on the street out the front of our home, and they are not swooped at all, and yet, as soon as postie turns up, every day, there’s our male Magpie, swooping him, the only one who ever gets swooped. Every day for a couple of Months around this time. Not once, but he follows him down our short street, and flies at him a number of times, not dangerously and actually pecking him, but just within a foot or so of that flapping yellowy coloured flag, with that different tone squawk they have when swooping. The postie is used to him now, and all but ignores him, as he knows exactly where it happens, just down our short street.

      It really intrigued me as he was the ONLY one being swooped.

      A couple of weeks back, we were watching from our back patio. The female was ‘nesting’, so we supposed an egg was being tended.

      As I mentioned we have numerous varieties of birds, and the Magpie ignores them all, totally.

      Then, along came a couple of Sulphur Crested Cockatoos, and our male Magpie went absolutely ballistic. He swooped and squawked, and attacked both ‘cockies’, actually following them for a great distance, both of them. He flies faster than the lumbering ‘cockies’, always slow on the wing, until they were out of range, and then he returned to the nest tree.

      A day or so later, the same thing with two more Sulphur Crested’s. Ballistic.

      Only them. Other birds can land in the same tree, numbers of them do, and nothing, but heaven help the approach of a sulphur crested cocky.

      Now, back to our postie who gets swooped. Look at the image and note the colour of the safety gear. Exactly the same as that sulphur crest on the cockie and the tips of the their wing feathers.

      That’s what made me wonder, because you’d think that he would get used to having the postie come by every day, after so many years, but every day he swoops on the postie.

      The young chick has hatched, been raised, fattened up, and he follows dad around like crazy squawking as dad digs up another tasty morsel for him. Now, the chick is also on the wing, and soon it will be off on its own journey. Mum has long gone, and now all we have is our alpha male Magpie.

      I just found it odd that with so much foot and bike traffic up our street, that the only thing swooped is that postie, and the sulphur crested cockatoos, all having the same colour in their makeup.

      Tony.

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        Mark Fraser

        and they don’t prey on the eggs in other birds’ nests? Invasive species, in UK and North America….

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          PeterPetrum

          Different species. The Australian magpie is not the same species as the UK one. Nasty little varmit, if I remember correctly.

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            Annie

            Correct…they are different species. I can’t remember the details and some of our books are still in packing boxes awaiting new shelves.

            What intrigues me is the similarity in size, colour and behaviour in the Northern and Southern hemisphere magpies. It reminds me of other pairings of unrelated but ecologically similar species. Badgers and wombats, squirrels and possums, hedgehogs and echidnas, otters and platypuses, (platypi?!), mice and marsupial mice. Dunno about kangaroos though!

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        Yonniestone

        Hey Tony I’ve been a postie for about 1 year now and Ian is right about the job being in danger, just technology I suppose, but I’m not sure about the colour being a Magpie’s attack catalyst as older posties of 20+ years say the uniform was dark blue using bicycles and they still got swooped, I asked them because last month we’ve had certain very aggressive Magpies that actually try to peck your eyes out, seriously I felt like Rod Taylor in The Birds!
        It could be simply the fact that a postie spends more time going up and down streets and the Magpie see’s this as an intruder patrolling their territory, we tend to follow the same route every day and birds are clever in mapping things out, I initially thought it was the motor sound of the NBC bike that seems to send otherwise tame dogs into full Cerberus mode.

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        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Tony

          Your outline was very interesting as we face the bush and have the best and nicest magpies ever.

          They eat out of my hand and NEVER bite the hand that feed them.

          Birds aren’t stupid.

          They come into our house and wait to be fed bacon rind which they love.

          When they have it all they take off back to the nest presumably to feed those waiting.

          Although I have been swooped by magpies when on my bike a few years ago in a different area I have never seen the local maggies swoop anyone; except when they see us come out the back door.

          I have never felt threatened and am always careful to avoid getting between them and the door.

          We also have butcher birds but while they like the food they will not come anywhere near me and feed only when they think all is very very safe.

          The magpies ignore the Mynahs but attack the butchers and the dominant bird will also give the younger magpies a hard time.

          Makes more sense that most human communities.

          KK

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            When I was living at Coomera before moving here, we also had a Magpie dominant male who lived close by and again used our yard for feeding.

            Against advice I have read, we would also feed ‘Jack’. At first he was a little tentative. We would get one of those Luncheon meat rolls and chop it into tiny pieces. He got more and more confident that we were, umm, okay, and would come closer and closer. In the end, he would also eat out of our hand, and it was an absolute source of amazement when we had our grand daughter with us and she asked if she could have some in her hand. ‘Jack’ would stand on our small table and eat the small pieces ever so daintily from her palm, without touching her palm. No fear at all, from either the Magpie our our ten year old grand daughter.

            He would occasionally come to the door and squawk if we weren’t there. A couple of times my good lady had no luncheon meat cut up specially for him, and she put out some Silverside of all things, and Jack just turned up his nose at that.

            Three years running he would bring his latest chick and introduce it to us, all young and still with the fluffy furry feathers. At first, the chick would sit on the fence and Jack would feed it, but the chick also became confident after a week or so. Then it was just Jack again, when the youngster flew off to make his own life.

            We haven’t fed this local Magpie, as it looks like he gets plenty from our yard. It’s amazing to match him listening for what’s happening under the lawn, go over to a spot, peck the ground and come up with a worm or small grub.

            Amazing birds really, and you just know he’s the alpha bird in these parts.

            Tony.

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              KinkyKeith

              Fantastic story Tony.

              Up until three years ago my only experience of magpies was in being pecked on the helmet while riding.

              Now they come to our new house and sing for their supper at times and will also go search through the back yard for whatever in the dirt.

              KK

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              AndyG55

              They like Arnotts Milk Arrowroot biscuits. (not the Coles ones though) :-)

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              • #
                KinkyKeith

                Andy they do like them.

                One got through about a quarter of one before he stopped, flew off, presumably dumped his load and came back and demand his real food: BACON RIND.

                The butcher bird came and finished of the bits of arrowroot left over.

                KK

                :)

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              KinkyKeith

              Tony

              Was wondering if the birds pecking in your backyard were actually listening or watching.

              I don’t know much about their hearing but birds have outstanding sight especially in detecting any movement.

              Their colour perception is not that good but not all that important.

              KK

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          KinkyKeith

          ps for Yonnie.

          I was swooped by maggies which pecked my bike helmet.

          frightened the cr^p out of me but no harm done.

          Hard to say with birds but could you try bribing them?

          Try taking some bacon rind cut into half inch lengths and drop it near their swoop spot?

          KK

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            Yonniestone

            Nice idea KK but a bit hard to do the round with a pack of bacon hungry dogs after me LOL! :)

            Jokes aside I’ll try it, an old postie used to carry dog treats to make friends with dogs on his round, he never had any trouble with them.

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        just a few things. Are you sure your female goes off site? That would be unusual. Also unusual is one chick but it happens in bad years and due to accidents. Females play the territory game although the lines can be blurred when related neighbours are cooperating.

        TYhe thing I am most confused about is your nest observations. Males do almost no nest building or chick feeding but they do feed the female sitting. They are very attentive to the nest and nestlings in they guardian role. I’ve not seen males do this myself and I’ve seen a few. When I’ve seen otherwise I’ve questioned my identification of the sexes as it is tricky especially with age and condition of the bird affecting plumage.

        Since the chicks hang around for months afterwords, with the mother in attendance, and even cooperate with setting up for next year, I’m wondering if your family is doing these things away from you. Their territory might only just touch on your property and extend elsewhere out of your sight?

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          was addresed to Tony btw and also

          I’ve not seen males do this myself and I’ve seen a few.

          is referring to males building nests and feeding chicks

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          GeeAye,

          thanks for your comments here.

          I actually thought our local resident bird was the female myself, and I went and read up on it, and my thoughts on our Magpie here changed, so I was watching really closely.

          We noticed that the second Magpie had turned up but was mainly located around the nest, and our one, the same one as always, was doing what it always did. It was the other Magpie which sat mainly in the nest, while our one did all the scrounging for food, flying back to the nest, and only staying there for short periods. He was always close by though. I can’t say I saw our local resident one building the nest, as it was a pre-existing nest, as are a couple of others I have seen in this area when I’m out walking, also Magpie nests as I have seen Magpies in them as well, and my walks take me as far afield as four kilometres away.

          We could only watch the nest closest to us through binoculars as it was three houses away. We saw no hint of the chick, just Mum sitting and tending and waiting for her mate to return with food. We suspected a chick after some days because now Mum was mainly standing on the side of the nest.

          The first time we did notice the (one) chick was when we saw the three of them in next door’s backyard, all on the ground. Mum seemed to be in the background while Junior followed our local resident around, he would grub for food, and Junior would squawk and chase after him waiting for each morsel, just walking, and following.

          A few days later we noticed that the other Magpie had left and Junior was now on the wing, tentatively at first, following our local resident as he would fly off, with Junior in close pursuit. They came back to our area but have not revisited the nest. Junior is still fluffy all over, but I was surprised how quickly he/she seemed to grow, as it’s not much smaller than our local now, after a week since seeing it first.

          But it was the other Magpie which flew in sat on the nest and then flew off. Both here and at Coomera, I have only ever noticed the one chick each year.

          My question here is ….. do they have more than the one nest, as this chick was definitely hatched in the one we were watching.

          Our resident local was most definitely not the one sitting on the nest. The only time I saw the nesting Magpie away from the nest was during the attacking of those Sulphur Crested Cockatoos, and the only bird chasing others away, swooping our Postie and using his usual haunts for food grubbing, and roosting spots for resting up was our local resident.

          It was all really interesting just to be watching.

          Tony.

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    toorightmate

    The occupation which has boomed in Australian over the past 10 years is “Prime Minister”.

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      Dennis

      The occupation that has boomed is breeders of White Ants genetically modified to undermine prime ministers.

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    pat

    17 Oct: UK Telegraph: Christopher Booker: Met Office shown to be wrong by its own data
    In recent years the organisation’s forecasts have become skewed by its obsession with global warming
    Imagine if Michael Fish, our most famous weatherman, had been sacked by the BBC for writing a book accusing the world’s climate scientists of having “manipulated” their data to promote panic over global warming. Something similar made headlines in France last week when its “top TV weatherman”, Philippe Verdier, was taken off air by the state-owned France 2 channel for writing a book claiming that we have all been made “hostages to a planetary scandal over climate change”…
    Before this scandale erupted, I planned to start this column by asking “what on earth is happening to our British weather”?…
    In a series of recent posts on his Notalotofpeopleknowthat blog, Paul Homewood has been meticulously plotting the Met Office’s predictions against its own recorded data. In one, titled “Met Office forecasts contain a warming bias”, he compared all its running three-monthly forecasts for the first nine months of 2015, made on the basis of “observations, several numerical models and expert judgment”, with what actually happened…
    Against its frequent claims that we can expect “a general increase in summer temperatures” thanks to “human influence on climate”, the Met Office’s own data show that, since 2006, summers have on average become cooler…
    As remarkable as anything are the graphs on a guest post by Neil Catto, a former Met Office employee, who, as part of his scientific work, has plotted data from a representative sample of Met Office UK weather stations every day since 1998. On every one of his graphs recording temperature, rainfall and much else, the trend line over 18 years has been astonishingly consistent. Despite fluctuations, the overall trend has been flat. The general pattern of our weather has remained remarkably unchanged…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/11938459/Met-Office-shown-to-be-wrong-by-its-own-data.html

    17 Oct: UK Daily Mail: Evan Bleier: Dreaming of a white OCTOBER? Early snowstorms hit the Midwest and New England as coldest air mass of the season sweeps across the United States
    Even though winter doesn’t officially start until December 22, freeze watches and warnings and frost advisories have been issued from Missouri to Massachusetts, according to the Weather Channel…
    Temperatures on Saturday night into Sunday are expected to sink to freezing or below in cities around the country like Minneapolis, Chicago, Cincinnati, Buffalo, Hartford and Pittsburgh…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3277364/Early-snow-Midwest-New-England-coldest-air-mass-season-hits-U-S.html

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      gai

      You can add central North Carolina. It was below freezing night before last and today is very brisk with a strong and chilly wind. The temperature is running about 10C below typical.

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    pat

    AUDIO 5mins17secs: 16 Oct: BBC: Suspended weatherman speaks
    There’s a meteorological storm blowing across France. Phillipe Verdier is one of the most recognised weathermen on TV — he’s known as Monsieur Météo. But a few days ago he was suspended after he released a book called “Climate Investigation” in which he’s very critical of the government’s approach to tackling global warming. It hasn’t made him popular, coming as it does just before the climate change conference in Paris
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p035dk68

    summary:
    BC: you’ve been quoted as being someone who denies climate change, but that’s not accuratie is it? you’ve actually said there might be some positives to climate change…
    Verdier: in western europe, france, we have positives from climate change.
    BBC: but what about countries like Australia which is facing terrible drought or other countries that are facing terrible floods. you have already said you are not a scientist but the vast majority of climate scientists agree blah blah…
    what about thousands of refugees that might be heading for France when their countries are either flooded or barren? some people might accuse you of being an opportunist, Paris talks, blah blah. some of the things you have said is that the IPCC has blatantly erased data that is contrary to what it believes…what’s your beef? who are you most annoyed with? the IPCC, the French Govt?
    Verdier: maybe both.
    BBC: you are “Mr. Weather”…your views might misguide people.

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    pat

    BBC might wonder why we have to force a drought? and worry about cold temperatures?

    15 Oct: ABC: Cassandra Steeth: Coonawarra winery inflicts drought on vineyard for climate change research
    The winery Wynns Coonawarra Estate has forced a drought on part of its vineyard in the name of climate change research…
    Chief winemaker from Wynns, Allen Jenkins has been at the helm of the climate research for the past 14 years and said understanding how these factors impact yield potential is critical…
    “When we have cold temperatures in [spring] our yields can be dramatically reduced in the subsequent seasons,” he said…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-13/coonawarra-winery-wynns-puts-vineyard-in-drought-for-research/6848894

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    pat

    following AAP article is elsewhere headlined “‘Strong moral case for Adani mine,’ says Federal Government”, but not for partly-taxpayer-funded SBS:

    18 Oct: SBS: AAP: Adani mine: Greens say claim of strong moral case is a ‘sick joke’
    Resources Minister Josh Frydenberg argues the coal from the project can help lift hundreds of millions of people out of energy poverty in India and across the world.
    “I think there is a strong moral case here,” Mr Frydenberg told ABC TV on Sunday.
    “More than two billion people today are using wood and dung for their cooking,” Mr Frydenberg said.
    He pointed to World Health Organisation statistics showing there are 4.3 million premature deaths world wide each year from illness attributable to household air pollution from the inefficient use of solid fuels.
    “That’s more people dying through those sort of inefficient forms of energy than from malaria, from tuberculosis and HIV AIDS all combined,” Mr Frydenberg said.
    Greens deputy leader Larissa Waters described Mr Frydenberg’s moral case for coal argument as “deranged”…
    The much cheaper, healthier option was localised renewable energy, Senator Waters said…
    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/10/18/strong-moral-case-adani-mine-fed-govt

    even ABC doesn’t headline the Greens!

    18 Oct: ABC: Jane Norman:Carmichael mine: No federal subsidies for Adani but ‘strong moral case’ for coal, Energy Minister Josh Frydenberg says
    The Energy Minister (Josh Frydenberg) also signalled a shift in the Coalition’s attitude towards wind farms, telling Insiders the Turnbull Government was “agnostic” about the technology.
    Former prime minister Tony Abbott described wind farms as noisy and visually awful, while former treasurer Joe Hockey said they were utterly offensive.
    “We’re agnostic when it comes to the particular forms of technology we use to get to our 23.5 per cent target,” Mr Frydenberg said.
    “Our view is, whether it’s wind turbines, whether it’s solar panels or hydro, we’re agnostic about where this clean energy comes from.”…
    Greens condemn ‘moral’ argument for coal
    Queensland-based Greens senator Larissa Waters said the suggestion of a strong moral case for the Adani coal mine to relieve energy poverty in India was a sick joke.
    “Claiming there’s a moral case for coal exports confirms yet again how out of touch the Coalition is with the rest of the world,” she said…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-18/no-federal-subsidies-carmichael-mine-strong-moral-case-for-coal/6863702

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      Ross Stacey

      Big tick to Ausstralian Govt. for approval for Adani mine. Glad to see they have taken a pragmatic approach to this. There is no doubt India would have got the required coal from elsewhere had we not approved it. To state that there is a strong moral case shows “guts” that I never expected from Minister Dutton.

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    Caz

    And just to show how completely close-minded, unscientific, and stupid we are, Australian university students and academics managed to scuttle an academic centre headed, but not run by, Professor Bjorn Lomborg – he being labelled an ‘environmental skeptic’, which he isn’t, but never mind, why bother looking at facts.

    Or to put it another way: why bother to look at the myriad ways and the tens of millions of people who would benefit from spending a trillion dollars or two trillion, when you can save all that time and thinking and spend trillions on ‘reversing’ the climate by one degree in 100 years time.

    We have moved so far past applying thought to anything it’s long stopped being funny.

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    AndyG55

    FYI.. Using UAH Australia, in the calculation of “Year to September”, 2015 is in 20th place in the satellite data.

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    pat

    to date, not a single Australian MSM outlet has covered the Philippe Verdier story (apart from a thread on Bolt’s blog). in the US, no-one has touched it other than Breitbart. HuffPo France carred a French-language AFP piece.
    AP/Reuters/AFP English did not cover it, so it has not been picked up around the world.
    yet it is such a topical story, involving a high-profile French personality, the French President, and the Paris Climate Summit.

    below, Contrepoints seems to be a libertarian website, 450,000 visitors/month, according to Wikipedia.

    About the writer: Mathematician, Claude Brasseur had the opportunity to create a research center at the University of Lubumbashi (DRC) Polytechnic Faculty. He conducted several searches on specific renewable energy in Congo.

    18 Oct:Contrepoints: Claude Brasseur: Climate investigation, Philippe Verdier
    The author of this book has participated in several COP and observed the motivations and the choice of actors
    In the days that followed the publication of his book, the head of France Television Weather Service has disappeared from screens. He betrayed the omerta, the code of silence.
    Philippe Verdier ensures believe global warming is due to man but, and this is probably a great sin, it reveals the inner workings of the IPCC, the process of organizing the COP21…
    Through his book, you will go behind the scenes, watching the high priests of the IPCC. You will understand why the deadline before the heat Apocalypse was reduced from 2100 to 2050 and finally 2030. You will measure the skills of the makers of the IPCC who draft the final report, read by the only “responsible”. You will see what appears and what does not appear the work of scientifiques. You can measure the motivational differences between the high priests of climate catastrophism and clergy who are active in the field…
    The extent of short-term tragedies announced by the IPCC is compared to reality. You will know how climate information is financed and actually moving; you can measure its objectivity. Thus, the media exploitation of the case of the Philippines replaced the case of Bangladesh. What for?…
    WWF has joined the IPCC and it is useful to know its motivations. Pope Francis has published the hymn to the IPCC Van Yperseele. Where does this incursion of the spiritual in the temporal?…
    You will understand the motivation underlying the proliferation of wind turbines, multiplication mingled with that of coal and gas, you will also understand the struggle between lobbies…
    https://www.contrepoints.org/2015/10/18/225791-climat-investigation-de-philippe-verdier

    15 Oct: SteynOnline: Mark Steyn: Chance of Precipitating the End of Your Career 97%
    “A Disgrace to the Profession”: The World’s Scientists – In Their Own Words – On Michael E Mann
    I forget how many Democrat candidates last night identified “climate change” as the principal global threat – I think it was 97 per cent of them – but for those minded to question the consensus here’s a cautionary tale from France’s top weatherman. Philippe Verdier is a household name thanks to his daily forecasts. Then he wrote a book criticizing Big Climate…
    Fortunately for me and my career and my own venture into this territory, I don’t think there’s anyone left to sack me…
    http://www.steynonline.com/7231/chance-of-precipitating-the-end-of-your-career-97

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    pat

    meant to add from the day this story broke, the main media grouping for this story in “news” results brings up a mere “21 results”, with the Telegraph and a few other French results listed separately.

    tell me the MSM is not monolithic.
    tell me the MSM is not the greatest obstacle in putting forward CAGW sceptic viewpoints, or corrections of false CAGW claims/data, etc.

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    PeterPetrum

    It’s spreading. David quoted in the Sunday Express in the UK.

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    el gordo

    Watts is sceptical about Beck’s data because it suffers from location bias. The graph is taken from the Tim Ball essay.

    https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/clip_image007.jpg

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    pat

    posted this on jo’s new thread, but it needs to be here as well:

    17 Oct: UK Express: Marco Giannangeli: EXCLUSIVE: Senior MP ‘ridiculed’ by BBC for questioning climate change
    THE BBC was yesterday accused of bias in its coverage of climate change after a senior MP was “ridiculed” for attempting to question the extent of global warming.
    Peter Lilley, a long standing member of the energy and climate select committee, has made a formal complaint to director general Lord Hall after discovering that mandarins had issued an apology following claims he made that the effects of climate change were being exaggerated…
    Mr Lilley, who graduated with a degree in natural sciences at Cambridge University, said: “I’m a ‘lukewarmist’, one who thinks that there won’t be much warming as a result of it, and that’s the scientifically proven bit of the theory. Anything going on the alarmist scale is pure speculation.”
    Referring to the Met Office, he added: “The sad thing is that they’ve become committed to a particular pseudo-scientific doctrine and are now unwilling to change that doctrine when the facts refute it.”…
    Mr Lilley was horrified to discover that the BBC later placed “health warnings” on the programme’s website, and issued an apology for “giving voice to climate sceptics” and failing to “make clear that they are a minority, out of step with the scientific consensus.”…
    Speaking to the Sunday Express today, he said: “A colleague of mine alerted me to the fact that they’d slapped disclaimers essentially branding my views invalid.
    “My biggest concern is that the BBC breached the impartiality clause of its charter.
    “I was asked my views on climate change and I expressed them. My opinion should not be banned from the airwaves. And they should not accompany my remarks with a health warning, saying that I’m outside the scientific consensus, which is untrue…
    He added: “This was the first time I had ever been asked to discuss climate change. I strongly suspect it will also be the last time.”
    Last night the BBC insisted it remained “committed to impartial and balanced coverage of climate change which gives due weight to all sides of the debate.”
    However a spokesman added: ‘We accept that in this episode about The Met Office, the comments made about science and climate change would have benefitted from broader representation from the mainstream scientific community, although we did hear from a range of contributors as well as from The Met Office.”
    The revelation comes after a punishing week for the BBC…
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/612788/Exclusive-BBC-accused-bias-snubbing-senior-MP-climate-change

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    pat

    17 Oct: Tribune Pakistan: Shabbir Mir: Endangered: ‘Climate change threatening languages’
    We have all heard of climate change impacting topographies and ecosystems, especially in mountainous regions. However, languages and cultures in particular areas have not been spared by the effects of this phenomenon.
    A study conducted by Zafar Shakir of Karakoram International University (KIU) reveals Shina language is a casualty of climate change.
    Belonging to the Dardic tribe, the origin of the language dates back to the arrival of Aryans into Shinaki area (areas along the Hindukush and Karakoram) circa 1,500 to 2,000 BCE. Words from other languages have encroached into particular regions of the Shinaki area, thereby categorising it within the threatened languages.
    A lecturer at the Department of Modern Languages at KIU, Shakir carried out a study in September with 20 Shina-speaking participants displaced by floods over the past year…
    According to Shakir, “There is a direct and indirect impact of climate change on our material culture, which includes our clothing, agricultural norms and housing.” The lecturer added, “However, there is also a direct and indirect impact of climate change on our non-material culture, which revolves around languages.”…
    The KIU faculty member said the impact of climate change on the target group forced them to code switching (switching from one language to the next in one conversation), inter- as well as intra-sentential switching, and blending and borrowing of words from other languages…
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/974655/endangered-climate-change-threatening-languages/

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    pat

    finally, UK Times covers Verdier, thanks to Matt Ridley:

    behind paywall:

    18 Oct: UK Times: Matt Ridley: Now here’s the good news on global warming
    Activists may want to shut down debate, but evidence is growing that high CO2 levels boost crops and nourish the oceans
    France’s leading television weather forecaster, Philippe Verdier, was taken off air last week for writing that there are “positive consequences” of climate change. Freeman Dyson, professor emeritus of mathematical physics and astrophysics at the Institute of Advanced Study in Princeton, declared last week that the non-climatic effects of carbon dioxide are “enormously beneficial”. Patrick Moore, a founder of Greenpeace, said in a lecture last week that we should “celebrate carbon dioxide”…
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4589359.ece

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    John Gorter

    Jo

    I thought this rather funny.

    Maldives to expand oil exploration
    Aminath Shifleen, Haveeru Online
    Oct 17, 2015 – 04:14

    The German vessel, RV Sonne, that had conducted seismic surveys in late August 2014. HAVEERU FILE PHOTO
    A research vessel will arrive in the Maldives Sunday to conduct geological surveys as part of the government’s efforts to find oil and gas reserves in the island nation, a senior minister announced Saturday.
    Fisheries minister Mohamed Shainee told Haveeru that the crew of the vessel, which he said is part of an international research programme, would be led by a German expert who had visited the Maldives to carry out similar surveys.

    “The vessel will carry out further researches based on the findings of the Sonne team. If required, they will drill as well,” the minister, who leads the government’s efforts to find oil and gas, said.

    A German vessel, RV Sonne, had conducted seismic surveys at two of the three locations that are most likely to have oil wells during its last tour before retiring from scientific use in late August 2014.

    When it reached the government in last October, results of the survey’s first assessment showed that the locations had particular source rocks unique to areas covering oil wells. Final results of the geological survey conducted by German University of Chamber Scientists had found cold water corals in the Maldives, a strong sign of oil and gas presence.

    Finding oil and natural gas is a key electoral pledge of President Abdulla Yameen Abdul Gayoom

    Thus to achieve this, the government had divided the locations into blocs and had a number of parties conduct separate research. The government said that it had, in addition to asking for assistance from China, reached out to “corporations in a country far from this region”.

    The government had then opened opportunity for regional researchers after the Indian government extended its support to search.

    Meanwhile, UK-based Zebra Data Services Ltd has expressed interest for oil exploration in the Maldives and shared their proposal with the economic council.

    Apologies if posted by others

    Ciao

    John

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    pat

    John Gorter -
    glad u posted the Maldives piece, cos it reminded me to post the following about those Islands which require billions to save them from CAGW.

    fortunately, this ruling has just been overturned:

    18 Oct: HaveeruOnline, Maldives: Maldives top court annuls woman’s stoning ruling
    Supreme Court quickly moved Sunday to annul a ruling by a magistrate court in an island that sentenced a woman to be stoned to death for extramarital sex…
    http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/63191

    Govt in chaos?

    18 Oct: HaveeruOnline: Maldives crackdown on VP aides intensifies
    An employee of the Maldives Marketing and Public Relations Corporation (MMPRC), located on the fourth floor of the Velaanage office complex, told Haveeru that police and army officers were guarding the entrance when he had gone there in the morning…
    Meanwhile, it was revealed Saturday evening that the passport of Abdulla Ziyath, who serves as the Managing Director of MMPRC, had been confiscated…
    http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/63172

    Ziyath in happier times:

    11 Aug: HaveeruOnline: Maldives receives acclaim at Expo Milano 2015
    PHOTO CAPTION: The Maldives Marketing and Public Relations Corporation’s Managing Director, Abdulla Ziyath, speaking at Expo Milano 2015.
    Further, Maldives will sit at a discussion panel at the expo, where delegates will discuss the impact of climate change and how to further protect the country’s marine life…
    http://www.haveeru.com.mv/business/61506

    the Maldives’ INDC submission to UNFCCC contains the following:

    Conditional Reduction
    “The 10% reduction expressed above could be increased up to 24% in a conditional manner, in the context of sustainable development, supported and enabled by availability of financial resources, technology transfer and capacity
    building.

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    pat

    7 Oct: Financial Post: Peter Foster: Paris’s scary climate agenda
    (First in a series)
    Details of two international agreements were released on Monday. One, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which reduces trade barriers between 12 signatories, including Canada, got lots of ink. The other, which purports to control global weather, end the era of fossil fuels, and place all human activity under bureaucratic control, got very little…
    The Paris text’s most significant feature is its lack of detail. It starts with the suggestion that the parties recognize “the intrinsic relationship between climate change, poverty eradication and sustainable development.”
    But although the relationship may be intrinsic, it is far from clear. Insofar as the promoters of the agreement seek to starve poor countries of financing for “maladaptive” fossil fuel development, they are promoting poverty. Developing countries want nothing to do with having wind and solar foisted on them. They are gung ho for coal. They are also interested in the annual US$100 billion of handouts, starting in 2020, that was promised six years ago at Copenhagen but that, true to form, has not materialized…
    As a provider of “environmental services” Gaia needs to be paid. Since she has no bank account, the UN is more than prepared to act as her proxy…
    The document is a compendium of parentheses, that is, wording or issues that have yet to be decided. One parenthesis suggests that the famous 2 degrees Celsius rise in global temperatures (since before the Industrial Revolution) that will put us at an existential tipping point might be changed to 1.5 degrees Celsius. Could that be a recognition of the inconvenient fact that global temperatures are refusing to rise despite unprecedented increases in the CO2 that is meant to drive them?.
    The desperation to negotiate a deal is obvious in provisions that signatories may be able to pull out after three years, and that there are no penalties for non-compliance.
    http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/peter-foster-pariss-scary-climate-agenda

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    pat

    re Peter Foster, who wrote the Financial Post piece:

    Peter Foster was born and educated in England, where he studied economics at Cambridge before working for the Financial Times of London. His columns for the Financial Post have twice been shortlisted for the International Bastiat Prize. In 2011, he received the English-language Economic Education Prize from the Montreal Economic Institute.

    He has written nine books. The first, The Blue-Eyed Sheiks, was a number one bestseller. Self-Serve, his book on Petro-Canada, won Canada’s National Business Book Award. He is also a recipient of a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Calgary-based Petroleum History Society.

    His magazine journalism has won National Magazine Awards for subjects as diverse as Moscow McDonald’s, oil exploration in the Beaufort Sea and the story behind Toronto’s SkyDome. His latest book, Why We Bite the Invisible Hand: The Psychology of Anti-Capitalism, is available on Amazon.com and Amazon.ca.
    http://business.financialpost.com/author/peterfosternp

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    pat

    19 Oct: Deutsche Welle: Developing countries balk at climate change agreement draft in Bonn
    by jar/cmk (AFP, Reuters)
    Developing nations are crying foul over the latest draft of a global climate agreement to be inked in Paris. A rift has opened between developing and developed countries on how to share the task of curbing emissions.
    As UN diplomats convene in the German city of Bonn on Monday, developing nations are complaining that much of the draft text has been gutted since negotiators last met…
    Developing nations have insisted on firm commitments, not just on the total amount to be spent ostensibly to combat climate change, and also where it will come from and what it will be used for…
    Many nations have also expressed disappointment that the goal of “decarbonizing” the global economy – moving away from fossil fuels – has been deleted from the draft now in circulation…
    “Across the board, rich countries are failing to bring the two most important ingredients to the negotiating table – emission cuts and money,” said Brandon Wu of ActionAid.
    http://www.dw.com/en/developing-countries-balk-at-climate-change-agreement-draft-in-bonn/a-18790256

    19 Oct: Bloomberg: Kim Chapman: UN Climate Deal Stuck at `Low End of Ambition’ as Talks Resume
    Meyer (Alden Meyer, Union of Concerned Scientists) said one gap in the latest text is that it excludes any call for countries to reexamine their goals before the 10-year mark…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-19/un-climate-deal-stuck-at-low-end-of-ambition-as-talks-resume

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    Rod Stuart

    Something troubles me.
    For some time I think we climate realists have been insisting that ANTHROPOGENIC CO2 is only about 3% of all CO2 released the atmosphere (although that is more difficult to measure than the “average global temperature” which is impossible. What is the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere at any given time? How do you know that? You might have a good read on one GPS position and one altitude in the central Pacific, but that certainly doesn’t tell you about anywhere else.

    What troubles me is that more and more, people I respect and admire such as Patrick Watson and Matt Ridley have been claiming that the 14% greening is due to “anthropogenic” CO2. How could they possibly know that? Don’t the volcanoes and the ocean deserve more applause? I always thought that mankind is too small to influence anything in nature to that extent.

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    el gordo

    I was wandering past Deltoid and looked over the fence (I’m banned) and they have been discussing David Evans.

    Vile creatures that they are, I suggest the uninitiated keep away because its become a blood sport.

    On the other hand, if you want a debate …

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      gai

      That explains all the mysterious red thumbs and green thumbs for Davis Appell. Cowards won’t come here to actually discuss the issues.

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    Andrew McRae

    Monckton’s prediction came true.

    Justin Trudeau elected as Canada’s next prime minister, ousting Stephen Harper
    [...]
    Mr Trudeau has said he will repair Canada’s cool relations with US president Barack Obama’s administration, withdraw Canada from the combat mission against Islamic State militants in favour of humanitarian aid, and tackle climate change.

    • Abbot was removed and was removed by the Turnbull faction.
    • Harper was ousted at the Canadian election… but was it due to UN involvement?

    A reminder of the video where he made this prediction and what source he claimed for this prediction.

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