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Tide shifts: Canada “comes out” and applauds Australian PM for repeal bill of carbon tax

Remember how the whole world was moving to a clean energy future, and they would mock and scorn us if we did not do our part?

Statement by Parliamentary Secretary Paul Calandra on Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s Introduction of Legislation to Repeal the Carbon Tax

 OTTAWA, ONTARIO–(Marketwired – Nov. 12, 2013) - Today, Paul Calandra, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister, issued the following statement on behalf of the Government of Canada on Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s introduction of legislation to repeal the carbon tax:

“Canada applauds the decision by Prime Minister Abbott to introduce legislation to repeal Australia’s carbon tax. The Australian Prime Minister’s decision will be noticed around the world and sends an important message.

“Our government knows that carbon taxes raise the price of everything, including gas, groceries, and electricity. Prime Minister Abbott has said that, in Australia, the repeal of the carbon tax will reduce the average household’s cost of living by (in Australian dollars) $550 a year, take $200 off household power bills and $70 off gas bills.

“Our government has reduced greenhouse gas emissions while protecting and creating Canadians jobs – greenhouse gas emissions are down since 2006, and we’ve created 1 million net new jobs since the recession – and we have done this without penalising Canadian families with a carbon tax.”

The tide is turning

Apparently this is the first time Canada has “come out” and admitted it was not buying the scare. Ooh. For those who deal with group decisions, and critical masses, this will hurt. Open praise for skeptical nations breaches a big taboo. Suddenly, being a sensible leader is respectable.

Naturally The Guardian reports it as if Canada is exposing a new dark side:  Canada reveals climate stance with praise for Australian carbon tax repeal

“Canada discourages other industrialised nations from following through on their own climate change commitments”

Canada has dropped any remaining pretences of supporting global action on climate change by urging other countries to follow Australia‘s example in gutting its climate plan.

The Harper government withdrew from the Kyoto protocol on climate change in 2011 and Canada has failed to meet its own international emissions to cut greenhouse gas emissions – almost entirely because of its mining of the carbon-heavy Alberta tar sands. But the praise for Australia marked the first time Canada has actively sought to discourage other industrialised countries from following through on their own climate change commitments.”

How bad this was going to be?

  • Christine Milne Oct 25, 2013: “Tony Abbott is making Australia an international laughing stock…”
  • The ABC Drum:  “If Australia strips back its carbon price it will resume its position as global climate change pariah…”
  • Back in 2008 in the SMH: “Australia’s green paper on climate change takes us from pariah state towards leadership!”

 

H/t to Michael Smith via  reader DT

 

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308 comments to Tide shifts: Canada “comes out” and applauds Australian PM for repeal bill of carbon tax

  • #
    Lennox

    The tide is going the other way in the US.

    Obama’s Green Christmas present.

    http://www.truthandaction.org/new-executive-order-gives-obama-unlimited-power/

    Through the stroke of the pen, President Obama on Friday used his executive powers to elevate and take control of climate change policies in an attempt to streamline sustainability initiatives – and potentially skirt legislative oversight and push a federal agenda on states.

    The executive order establishes a task force of state and local officials to advise the administration on how to respond to severe storms, wildfires, droughts and other potential impacts of climate change. The task force includes governors of seven states — all Democrats — and the Republican governor of Guam, a U.S. territory. Fourteen mayors and two other local leaders also will serve on the task force.

    All but three of those appointed are Democrats. The task force will look at federal money spent on roads, bridges, flood control and other projects. It ultimately will recommend how structures can be made more resilient to the effects of climate change, such as rising sea levels and warming temperatures.

    “We’re going to need to get prepared. And that’s why this plan will also protect critical sectors of our economy and prepare the United States for the impacts of climate change that we cannot avoid,” President Obama said back in June, when he first launched a Climate Action Plan. “States and cities across the country are already taking it upon themselves to get ready… And we’ll partner with communities seeking help to prepare for droughts and floods, reduce the risk of wildfires, protect the dunes and wetlands that pull double duty as green space and as natural storm barriers.”

    The White House added in Friday’s statement that even as the United States acts to curb carbon pollution, officials also need to improve how states and communities respond to extreme weather events like last year’s Superstorm Sandy. Building codes must be updated to address climate impacts and infrastructure [superstructure] needs to be made more resilient.

    Critics of the order charge, among other things, that it groups together everything from forest fires to heavy rains as evidence of climate change – despite scientific testimony from both sides of the debate.


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    • #
      Safetyguy66

      The AGW myth is the ultimate gateway to totalitarianism, its in now way surprising that the world’s greatest phony democracy would try and take it that far. If Christine Milne had her way we would be right behind them.


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    • #
      Ernest Bush

      This will not be the first executive order from this president that will most likely be struck down and/or ignored. The idea of phony democracy becomes more of a reality every passing month. If the Democrats retain control of the Senate while the Republicans retain control of the House the president is a lame duck and will only get more outlandish with his executive orders. If the Republicans gain full control of Congress we will be able to survive as Americans a little longer and maybe walk the run to totalitarianism back a ways. Keep the torch of liberty burning, Aussies. It flickers dimly in our country and too many of our countrymen don’t see that it is perilously close to going out.


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  • #
    Bruce

    ” and we have done this without penalising Canadian families with a carbon tax”

    Except … the residents of British Columbia do pay a carbon tax enacted by the Provincial government. The PM’s office must be morons.


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  • #
    mpcraig

    I always said Australia is a lot like Canada and vice-versa. Loved my visit there in Expo 87. Beer is much more Canadian than American. Now we have climate sense in common.

    Too bad we live so far apart.

    Mike in Ottawa, Canada…


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  • #
    Ken Stewart

    The Emperor has no clothes…..


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  • #
    Bruce

    Why do Australians worry about what the rest of the world thinks of them?


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    • #
      AndyG55

      Its just nice to know that there other sensible countries in this world. :-)


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      • #

        Why do we worry? We don’t, but the only gain in us having a carbon tax was supposedly the symbolic effect it would have on the rest of the world. This pops that bubble beautifully. :D


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        • #

          http://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/g-gas/index_en.htm

          “In 2011, the latest year for which comprehensive data are available, EU-15 emissions stood 14.9% below their base year level.”

          “The EU has also committed to reduce its emissions by 20% under the Kyoto Protocol’s second period, which runs from 2013 to 2020.”

          http://www.c2es.org/international/key-country-policies/emissions-targets

          Australia stands out in that list as a notorious laggard on reducing CO2 emissions. We are on-par with Belarus and Croatia, way behind the rest.

          If your national pride is content with us being lumped in with Croatia and Belarus in terms of being a party to an important and international shift in modernising our economy, then that does say a fair bit about you.


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          • #
            Scott

            It means Belarus and Croatia are smarter than the rest of Europe.


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            • #

              I’d say comparative GDP indicates they are not. Germany is just about the strongest economy in Europe, due to their being the smartest and most organised, by and large, and they have got their emissions down 25%.

              In Belarus’ case, they have some excuse – something like 30% of their annual GDP goes on Chernobyl-related remediation issues.
              Similarly, Croatia was not so long ago the victim of Serbo-communist aggression from which they are still recovering.

              But Australia? No excuse.


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              • #
                MemoryVault

                You do like to play fast and furious with the truth, don’t you Margot.

                Checkout this article. Scroll down to the sub-heading: “Renewables Cheerleader Germany Spews More CO2″

                Seems Germany will create 20 million tonnes more CO2 this year than it did last year. Keep in mind also that Germany is currently buying a quarter of its electricity from nuclear powered France and coal powered Poland.

                .
                While we’re on the subject of stretching the truth, your top post in this thread is also, shall we say “misleading”. The EU hasn’t really reduced real emissions. What it has done is play creative accounting with carbon credits, and transferred much of its ‘carbon guilt’ to Third World countries.

                Actually the EU has increased REAL carbon emissions.

                .
                Just because you will swallow just about anything, doesn’t mean the rest of us will, Margot.


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              • #
                AndyG55

                Rote learnt pseudo-fact propaganda with zero understanding.

                Then released as a technicolour yawn.


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              • #
                Bulldust

                Funny that you brought up Croatians … I know a few where I work and they were stand outs for the right reasons. From my limited experience they are smart cookies. Plus the country is great to visit. Go over some time.


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              • #
                lemiere jacques

                cumulative CO2
                http://www.bit.ly/I1HyBJ

                per person
                http://www.bit.ly/I1HKRx

                another one economical gDG/CO2

                http://www.bit.ly/I1HfH7


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          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            The economies of both Belarus and Croatia are doing just fine, under the circumstances they found themselves in, with the collapse of the USSR.

            They both have a long history of central planning under the Soviet system of economic management. It was forecasted that it would take them twenty plus years (a generation) to pull their economy out of the travails of that system. That is proving correct, and being in the middle of the range in terms of economic performance of countries, is pretty impressive given the base they started from.

            Where they sit, and where Australia sits, on a league table of compliance with United Nations diktats, is totally immaterial to anything in the real world. It is like comparing the “whiteness” of sheets washed in different washing powders. Pure spin.


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          • #
            abt

            Sounds like Canada is keen to catch up with Australia, Croatia and Belarus in leading the world out of this green stupidity.


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          • #
            AndyG55

            “Australia stands out in that list as a notorious laggard on reducing CO2 emissions.”

            WELL DONE AUSTRALIA !! Tell them where to stick their reductions. :-)


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        • #
          Bruce

          I was referring to the following bilge, not what Harper’s spokesman said:

          Christine Milne Oct 25, 2013: “Tony Abbott is making Australia an international laughing stock…”
          The ABC Drum: “If Australia strips back its carbon price it will resume its position as global climate change pariah…”
          Back in 2008 in the SMH: “Australia’s green paper on climate change takes us from pariah state towards leadership!”

          From the real Bruce, not the impostor from la la land, namely British Columbia.


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          • #
            Bulldust

            Sounds like BC is like Boulder Colorado, which we used to refer to as 30 square miles surrounded by reality. This is when I lived in Denver and Golden … yes I moved around a bit in my younger days. Maybe it is something in the initials … B.C.

            I suppose the Aussie equivalent would be Tasmania getting a CO2 tax, to which the rest of the country would LOL.


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      • #
        WhaleHunt Fun

        Watching what green governments around the world say we ought to be doing, is a useful tool in determining what we ought definitely NOT do.
        So worth listening to their opinions, even though the stupid is so thick in their expellations.


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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Why do Australians worry about what the rest of the world thinks of them?

      Indeed, why does anyone worry so much about what someone else thinks of them? I think it boils down to political correctness on a grand scale. We all strive to belong. Belonging means being the same as… Belonging stops criticism for [add your own feared criticism here].

      You might as well ask why does everyone absolutely have to own the latest iPhone?


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    • #
      Backslider

      Why do Australians worry about what the rest of the world thinks of them?

      We don’t. How about you Bruce, does it worry you that everybody you meet thinks you are a [self snip]?


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    • #
      CameronH

      Only the intellectual elites worry about this because they consider themselves to be Global Citizens before they are Australian citizens. They suffer from Boganophobia or a fear of the average Australian who considers being a citizen of a proud and independent nation as important. The intellectual elites consider such people to be ignorant no nothings who really should not even be allowed to express an opinion and they are continuously disappointed that are are still allowed to vote. This is why they are still in denial about the last election result and explains the almost hysterical rantings of their mouthpieces in the Fairfax media and at their ABC. To the intellectual elites the good opinions of their international counterparts are of more importance than anything that the Bogans may express about their wishes for future of Australia.


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      • #
        john robertson

        Fair comment, in 2006 when the Canadian conservatives won a minority government, our presstitutes over at CBC went crazy, some priceless rants about how could the stupid canadian voter do this to us.
        For months they insisted in interpreting every utterance of Prime Minister Harper, telling us poor deluded voters, what he said, why he said it and why this was evil.
        While refusing to show the man speaking and let us hear him.
        The result CBC has fewer customers and the conservatives won a majority.
        If you can access the globe and mail, macleans or cbc articles from late 2006 , I expect they will be identical to what your progressive press(Presstitutes) is spewing right now.
        They have no original thought so the only change will be the date, PM’s name and that of country.


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        • #
          fredj

          Oddly enough, the mainstream media in Canada has been pretty much ignoring this. Surprising, as they usually take any opportunity to jump all over the current government and its supposed war on the ‘environment’


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          • #
            john robertson

            Just like climate gate our presstitutes will ignore this news, CBC, admit the dam has broken of this orchestrated litany of lies?No way.
            The consensus lives,Canada is the only rogue government..blah blah ..


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  • #
    clive hoskin

    I think this is why the green commies and their supporters have been pushing anything that has to do with AGW,since the Adults took over here.The Abbot Gov’t have opened the Flood Gates.This will give the other countries around the world,the B..ls to do the same.

    We need to encourage the rest of the World to do the same.

    DEFUND the UN!


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    • #
      john robertson

      Defund is not enough, prosecuting all involved under organized crime statutes in individual countries or using the UN idiocy, crimes against humanity.
      However the kleptocracy protects its own.


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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        If just the United States, the major supporter of the UN financially, would unilaterally pull out it would set the UN back on it’s big over-stuffed butt for a long time.

        Does anyone know what the UN Charter says about member states withdrawing from the organization (yes, I’m too busy or maybe lazy to try to look it up)?


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        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          Roy,

          From memory, member nations cannot withdraw from the charter. However, if they behave badly enough, they get thrown out under Article 6. I am wondering if refusing to pay tithes to the UN, on demand, will be considered as grounds for expulsion.


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          • #
            Justin Jefferson

            The right to withdraw would follow from the UN’s own proclaimed right of self-determination of peoples.


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            • #
              ROM

              After the conclusion of WW2 and it’s terrible and catastrophic consequences for the whole world of the times, the great dream of a united world where war and conflict would be banished for all time led to the creation of the United Nations and it’s consummation as a world body in the first meeting of the General Assembly with 51 nations attending which took place on 10th January 1946 in London’s Westminister’s Central Hall

              The corner stone for the UN headquarters in New York was laid on the 24 th October 1949.

              Today the UN in it’s present format has moved very far indeed from the original intentions of it’s founders and has become one of the most untouchable and corrupt international institutions on the planet.

              The American’s could fix the problem overnight and may yet do so in the years ahead .

              As both the major financier of the UN and it’s host on their shores, they merely need to announce that they are revoking the international status of the site on which the UN is situated in New York and have brought an idyllic island somewhere in the Pacific which they are presenting to the UN as a gift with full international recognition with it’s own separate independent status from all other nations.
              And have given the UN 12 months to shift there before it’s personnel’s status at every level as [ untouchable ] diplomats is revoked and all UN personnel still present in the USA will then be classified as alien residents and subject to the full force of American law.

              What better could a UN employee wish for than to be sitting on some remote Pacific paradise far from the troubles of the world with no decent communications systems to allow anybody and everybody to annoy him / her and no decent transport facilities to bring the diplomatic riff raff from the far corners of the globe to cause him trouble.
              Everybody else can then go home and get on with the wheeling and dealing as ever amongst the politicals as it has always been without a totally corrupt interfering UN busybody poking into and demanding to know everybody else’s political and international business.


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              • #
                Rereke Whakaaro

                Pitcairn has vacancies …


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              • #
                john robertson

                Canada might donate a fine island, as the UN fully sells the CAGW crud, they would have no problem relocating north of the 75th parallel.


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              • #
                Roy Hogue

                …and have brought an idyllic island somewhere in the Pacific which they are presenting to the UN as a gift with full international recognition with it’s own separate independent status from all other nations.

                ROM,

                I would simply say to the UN,

                The United States withdraws from thee UN as of [an appropriate date] and beyond that time will no longer participate in UN meetings or activities nor will it pay dues to the UN. You have 12 months to vacate all UN premises located within the United States, its territories and possessions.

                Then you leave them to their own devices until the drop dead date upon which you take possession of the UN headquarters complex — by force if necessary — and turn it into something useful.

                I don’t see any obligation to provide alternate quarters — even the provision of an isolated island or any diplomatic recognition — to our enemy. And that’s what they have become, an enemy of freedom.


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              • #
                Roy Hogue

                And of course, there would be endless actions in the courts over doing that, including the problem of appropriating what is clearly UN property. But I would really like to do it and tell them literally to, “Take a hike!”


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            • #
              Rereke Whakaaro

              Good point.

              I should have said, “There is no provision in the charter, for countries to withdraw …”, because you are right, it is not for the UN, as a body, to decide. And therefore, there is no need for anything in the Charter.

              Thank you Justin.


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              • #
                ROM

                Pitcairn!
                Excellent choice of location for the UN’s new home.

                Have you any notables in NZ that you believe would be the ideal ambassadors for NZ in the UN’s new home , Rereke Whakaaro?


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              • #
                Rereke Whakaaro

                Well, I used to work with a guy by the name of Glen Christian, who would be an obvious choice, to anybody who knows anything about the history of the islands.


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              • #
                ROM

                Rereke Whakaaro.

                You certainly have the contacts and that one’s from a very interesting historical episode.

                I was being a bit sardonic when i asked about any NZ ambassadors to a relocated UN.
                We have a whole host of them here in Australia and it would be very hard to pick a suitable candidate.

                Tim Flannery or Wil Steffen comes to mind and since last night I reckon Kevin Rudd and then there is Gillard, all of whom would be in the running for a nice ambassadorial post permanently located on a Pitcairn Island based UN.
                A nice 10 or 15 year spell each would be a suitable sentence period of residence on Pitcairn


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              • #
                Mark Hladik

                What’s wrong with the Antarctic Peninsula? Isn’t it warming faster than almost any place on the planet? Should be a tropical paradise in just a few years — — warm, sunny beaches, replete with penguins serving those coconut-shell drinks with the paper umbrellas, … …


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            • #
              Michael P

              Indeed. Canada says as such when they exercised their right to withdraw from Kyoto last year I believe it was and when a U.N official tried to tell them they couldn’t do that,they said word to the effect that they would withdraw from the u.N if this was the case. That was the end of the matter.


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          • #
            PhilJourdan

            I wonder what terrible thing Taiwan did.


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          • #
            Roy Hogue

            From memory, member nations cannot withdraw from the charter.

            The question then becomes, what could the UN do about it if someone did tell them to take a hike?

            I hate even suggesting disobedience but,

            When in the course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bonds which have connected them one with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and Equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature’s God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation. [capitalization exactly as in the original]

            If you don’t recognize that, it’s the first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence, the unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America, authorized by the Second Continental Congress, July 4, 1776 (the date of the last signature) to be carried by courier to King George. The list of their grievances and our present grievances with both our own governments and the UN have much in common. What we may no longer have in common with those colonists is the will to fight to regain our freedom.

            But seriously, who here would not like to see the UN put out of business? It has tried and in many cases managed to usurp the rightful power of sovereign nations to manage their own internal affairs and their relationships with the rest of the world. It has tried very hard to impose burdensome taxes on the citizens of its member states. It has tried and in some cases succeeded in restricting the freedom of those same citizens. And the worst thing is their insidious subversion of our sovereignty by subterfuge and out-and-out lies. Need I go on? The UN has stepped far, far, far outside it’s charter which was to be a forum to resolve disputes between nations, not to be the ruler of the world.

            It’s begun with this rejection of the climate change fraud. It’s time for some serious thinking about where we want to go from here.

            —————————–

            Forgive the lateness of this. I tried to post it yesterday as soon as I saw Rereke’s reply but the site went down in the middle of it. It seems that Jo still has some server problems. I couldn’t even ping the IP address.


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          • #
            Manfred

            So, everyone could be members without paying? Sound like a plan. They seemed to manage quite well on Iraq’s oil for food.


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  • #
    John Campbell

    How do we get our UK government to follow the inspiring lead of Australia and Canada?


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    • #
      scaper...

      Didn’t the UK surrender its sovereignty to the EU?

      You could flee the religious persecution. Simply fly to Indonesia and catch a boat across to Australia. Escaping warmist fascism and persecution surely qualifies as a climate refugee.


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    • #
      sean

      John, you have to vote UKIP, and get your conservative friends to move their vote to.


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    • #

      Apparently the anti-science tea-partiers that managed to (obviously temporarily) take control of the conservative parties in Australia and Canada failed in the UK, where the Tory government remains a reasonably sane conservative government (although they introduced homosexual marriage) and the nutters are left out on the UKIP fringe.


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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Margo,

        Apparently you are trying to be provocative in order to start an argument, that will ramble on, with your assistance, to distract people from thinking about the implications of Australia’s excellent execution of its sovereign rights to do as its elected government believes is best for the country.

        Perhaps you should start the ball rolling by defining what you mean by “anti-science tea-partiers”?


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        • #

          Here’s a clue, Rereke: there are only about 5 modern economies in the entire world where fossil-fuel lobbying has succeeded in creating any significant support for the anti-science position in relation to climate change. In countries such as France, Italy, and Germany the whole idea that addressing CO2 emissions might be unnecessary would be met with laughter and derision.
          We here in Australia are unfortunately afflicted with the results of said lobbying.


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            MemoryVault

            More for us to swallow, Margot?

            Let’s see.

            50,000 protesting against EU climate directives in Poland.
            Legal challenges to Obama’s EPA.
            Spain now taxing sunlight to make ends meet.
            Germany building coal power stations nearly as fast as the Indians.
            India building coal fired power stations nearly as fast as the Chinese – and nuclear ones too.
            China churning out coal power stations faster than the rest of the world combined, plus nuclear ones.
            Russia now the world’s largest producer AND exporter of oil and gas –
            - not to mention showing the way in Greenpeace infestation eradication.
            The British government leadership facing an internal revolt – that’s if the public don’t get them first.

            .
            All happening with a minimum of laughter and derision, Margot.


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            Andrew McRae

            Margot, your logical fallacy is: Bandwagon.

            On top of that, taking Germany as the best example there are recent discussions in German media such as these…

            Leading German Meteorologist Slams Climatologists For Lapsing Into A “Feeding Frenzy” Over Single Storm

            German meteorologist Dominik Jung comments on the near hysterical reaction of climate scientists concerning typhoon Haiyan: … “For many ‘climate expert’ this recent event is a feeding frenzy that allows them to pound the drums of ‘evil climate change’. And here not a single one of these ladies and gentlemen are able to show that such storms never existed over the past hundreds of years, let alone that this storm is connected to a man-made climate change.”

            Die Welt: Scientists Not Really Sure Where Heat Has Gone…Rahmstorf Peeved By Skeptics’ Success

            Die Welt is forced to admit:
            “The fact is also: The projections from scientists have failed to forecast the stop in the temperature rise.”
            Die Welt adds that warmists like Rahmstorf are highly irritated by the mileage skeptics have derived from the warming stop:
            “Scientist Rahmstorf is peeved by the headlines made by skeptics over the past months over the supposed pause in climate change. Those who put too much emphasis on the phenomenon are confusing ‘the noise of natural variations with the signal of global warming’.”

            German Scientists: Solar Cycle 24 Points To Dalton Or Maunder-Like Minimum, Boding Ill For A Climate Cooling

            In a recent publication in Space Science Reviews (2013), renowned solar scientists Ken McCracken, Juerg Beer, Friedhelm Steinhilber and Jose Abreu studied the solar minimums over the last 9300 years. Based on measurements of beryllium and carbon isotopes as indicators for the intensity of cosmic rays, which are modulated by solar activity, the scientists arrived at the result that the minimum of 2007 to 2009 had similar characteristics as the minimums occurring during the time of the Dalton Minimums of 1780 to 1820. They discovered a 208-year periodicity (Suess-de Vries) of a grand solar minimum in the past. Therefore they anticipate in the near future the events of a Dalton Minimum, but not a Maunder Minimum.

            Seems the German public and politics are lagging behind the real German scientists on the true major cause of 20th century warming.


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            AndyG55

            What you meant to say….

            There are now several countries that have recognised the fraudulent nature of the non-science of climate change.

            That number will start increasing rapidly now that Australia has taken a lead. :-)


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      John Of Cloverdale WA

      To scraper: with a name like John Campbell he has no hope of getting in.


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    Roy Hogue

    I wonder what’s going on behind the scenes in the UN climate change department. Weeping, wailing and knashing of teeth I would think. :-)

    None too soon either.


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    Kevin Lohse

    O/T i notice the Milky Bar Kid has resigned from active politics, asking his party.”to be gentle with each other”. I understand that Mr. Rudd was not known for his kindnesses when actively engaged politically. The hypocrisy of the Left never fails to amaze me.


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    Roy Hogue

    Now if Obama will get the message that will be a red letter day like no other. The poor boy’s political fortunes haven’t been doing so well of late. Just think of how much he could boost his standing if he actually did something useful.


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        Apoxonbothyourhouses

        “The Obama administration is among a handful of governments backtracking on a $100 billion promise they made to help “poor countries” fight climate change, a report finds.” Given a choice would the citizens in “poor countries” prefer:
        1. A marginal increase in temperature (ignoring for the moment any pause) or
        2. Clean water and affordable electricity for schools and hospitals together with improved educational facilities?
        The West fails to understand that a choice between a full belly and say freedom of the press is a no-brainer. Likewise an opportunity to escape grinding poverty will always beat vague notions of democracy.


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          Roy Hogue

          Pox,

          It’s only a no-brainer until the belly is full. Then the freedom starts to count again. We need to work to get them both things and have the ability to keep them both without leaning on anyone else.

          This is something like NATO where the U.S. kept on being the backbone and major financial supporter of European security against the “threat” of communism for far too long while Europe failed to step up to the plate, pick up the bat and start hitting the ball for themselves. Europe never ever learned the price of their security and it worked to their detriment.

          The hungry need help but they don’t need a free ride, which is what the UN would give them — along with god only knows what restrictions and conditions. No thank you.


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        Eddie Sharpe

        “The only country to indicate how much money it will provide in 2015 is the United Kingdom.

        What is it they say about rules ? Give them to the Brits to follow, while everyone else follows the ball.


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        Col Andrews

        Kevin,

        I read a blog yesterday that talked about the $100 billion funds for the poor nations to compensate for climate costs – it said that it had received $7.5 million (yes MILLION NOT billion!!) and it gave a detailed breakdown of what the money had been spent on obtained from UN by FOI!.
        – Offices and equipment in Soul
        – employing a board of management
        – hiring personnel
        – travel and accommodation etc. etc.

        = $7.5 million, right on budget!

        AND funds for the poor nations to compensate for climate costs = ZIP, NADDA, ZERO, ZILCH OPPPS


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        Hasbeen

        Obviously Oxfam was planning to get it’s hands on a chunk of that 100 billion, & are upset it is not around for them to pilfer.


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          Eddie Sharpe

          Makes you want to think carefully where you send your hard earned donations to help out in the Phillipines. Those big names that are good for collecting it, or who will make sure it goes farthest , by securing goodwill & cooperation on the ground.
          The big agencies may be good at harvesting money from Governments, but their years of lobbying have given them a taste for spending like Governments too.


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        Roy Hogue

        Haven’t seen that before but I certainly applaud that action. We’re going broke trying to spend our way into Everlasting-Fat-Dumb-and-Happy Land, so a hundred billion not wasted elsewhere will definitely be a good thing. Just think about how it could be wasted right here at home. :-)


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      PhilJourdan

      Actually, Obama is trapped. If he admits the truth, his remaining base will leave him (and his poll numbers will be in the teens), plus the mantra from the opposition will be “he lied for 3 years about keeping your Insurance Plan, and now we see he lied for 10 years about AGW”.

      It will be more powerful because it is also true.


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        Roy Hogue

        Phil,

        His poll numbers seem to be in free fall. And he’ll try to deny and lie while trying to divert attention to something else until his political goose is thoroughly cooked. He cannot admit to himself that he’s been wrong and that will assure his downfall. I see no way out for him now.

        Unfortunately he’s still president for 3 more years and still has the executive branch of government fully in his grip. No matter his poll numbers, he remains very dangerous.

        And the far left agenda is still alive and well. It may be set back by Obama’s failure but it will not go away. It’s going to take a lot of patient, concerted effort to change the hearts and minds of the people, not only in the U.S. but around the world. Where is the leader who can get this started? I don’t see him.


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          PhilJourdan

          I agree. But the ones bailing on him now are the independents, not the base. If he was to actually try to be honest, his base would bolt as well.

          3 more years? Perhaps. Nixon had 3 more years at this point. And he did a lot less that was illegal than Obama has.


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            Roy Hogue

            Nixon had 3 more years at this point. And he did a lot less that was illegal than Obama has.

            Phil,

            I wouldn’t hope that he’ll resign if that’s what you’re hinting at. Nixon had a sense of shame, something entirely lacking in Obama. Or maybe he hides it too well. But of course that’s the same as not having it.

            Impeachment is also unlikely, simply because the senate would never convict him.


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              PhilJourdan

              I have no hope that he will. He is not smart enough to. And I agree, the senate proved in 98 it would never vote to convict a president, no matter how sleezy.


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                Roy Hogue

                Not to mention that while it only takes a simple majority to pass a bill of impeachment in the House, it takes a 2/3 majority to convict in the Senate. That’s a very high hurdle to jump over — so high that I wonder if Nixon would have been convicted.

                Thankfully we’ll never know.


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                PhilJourdan

                Roy – I know that Nixon resigned because he knew he would lose a vote in the house, but I have never seen a count on what the senate would do. Nixon did not want to put the nation through the process.

                And that is why in later life, he was redeemed, and many do not understand that. It was not for his impeachable offenses, rather it was for the “nobility” in which he handled the situation.


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    James

    Haven’t heard much bleating from Pastor Tim and the Church of Climatology – maybe trying to figure out how to spend that millionth dollar after the elders take out their share. I wonder just how far a dollar will go?


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    Eddie Sharpe

    It could be a new Commonwealth, led by Canada, Aus., and if Cameron could at least strap on a pair, without the genocidal regimes.


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    Justin Jefferson

    Jo, congratulations and thanks for your part in this dawning victory for the values of sense and humanity.

    The decision of any government to say anything against the carbon orthodoxy is significant precisely because this whole thing is a phenomenon well-named after the book “Popular Delusions and Madness of Crowds”. That’s why, when challenged, its defenders always refer off to someone else. It’s a mid-brain phenomenon. Once specifically challenged to put forward a rational defense of the whole belief system, they always crumble because it simply based on fallacy after fallacy after fallacy. It exists and grew only because the early rent-seekers were able to entrench their position – and their salaries – against critical questioning.

    The minds of the crowd are changed by those with the courage to stand out from the crowd.

    Everyone should take every opportunity to blast this latest crop of pious Puritan, of nasty totalitarians, and name and shame them for what they are, and you will find the majority form their opinion by looking to see which way the wind blows, and acting and thinking accordingly.

    That’s why this site is important, and the actions of everyone who reads it.


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    sean

    The Guardian. humbug… they can go (insert you own rude insult here)


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    Ian H

    These politicians are not (yet) rejecting the need to reduce C02 emissions. In the current political climate that would be a step too far. But it seems that it is now politically possible to reject a carbon tax and claim that you will reduce carbon in other ways.

    Furthermore this is quite doable. You CAN reduce CO2 emissions quickly and substantially with a combination of more gas from fracking; more efficient gas and coal fired power stations; and newer safer nuclear power stations. Furthermore you can do it effectively, immediately and economically without hurting the economy.

    This has the Greens on the back foot because these are all measures which they strongly oppose. Yet they they are far more effective than the favoured Green options of windmills, solar, biofuels, and savings; and they do it without causing economic pain.


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    pat

    aren’t we special?

    13 Nov: ABC Lateline: Australia suffers most extreme warming
    The UN’s World Meteorological Agency has found that this year Australia has had the most extreme warming of any country.
    EMMA ALBERICI, PRESENTER: The UN’s World Meteorological Agency has found that climate change is increasing the impact of storms like Typhoon Haiyan. And closer to home, in findings released tonight, the WMO says that Australia this year has experienced the world’s biggest increase in average temperatures. This report from Jake Sturmer.
    JAKE STURMER, REPORTER: You don’t have to look very hard to see the devastating impacts of extreme heat…
    LESLEY HUGHES, CLIMATE COUNCIL: And it’s the extremes that really matter in terms of impacts. You know, we’ve got a lot more heatwaves, a lot more really hot days, we’ve just had probably an unprecedentedly severe early start to the fire season in the Blue Mountains.
    JAKE STURMER: And it’s not just records being smashed in Australia. The UN’s meteorological organisation found that temperatures had continued to rise almost everywhere…
    JOHN CHURCH, CSIRO: The impact of storm surges will be felt more acutely present days and into the future ’cause sea level will continue to rise for many decades and probably centuries depending on how we continue to emit greenhouse gases.
    JAKE STURMER: The climate snapshot will help inform policymakers gathered at the UN’s climate talks in Poland. But there’s no minister from the Australian Government. Instead, it’s sent its Ambassador for Climate Change.
    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3890466.htm


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    pat

    ABC’s Mary Gearin talks to WMO Secretary-General Michel Jarraud who we are told “balks” at making CAGW connections but goes on to make them, & Jerry Velasquez, UN’s Office for Disaster Risk Reduction who says once in a lifetime typhoons are now once a year. kyoto expiring, this will provide an opportunity to re-think the framework & how we do disaster risk management:

    14 Nov: ABC AM: Climate change worsening severe storm impact: UN
    LINK: Read the WMO Provisional Statement on Status of the Climate in 2013 (hottest, strongest, widest, etc)
    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2013/s3890515.htm

    yet on 11 Nov, Velasquez didn’t make a single reference to CAGW or Climate Change in his interview with Deutsche Welle. in fact, the word “climate” does not even appear in this piece:

    11 Nov: Deutsche Welle: Natural disasters threaten Philippine growth
    Every year, 20 typhoons hit the Philippines, a country also threatened by earthquakes and volcanos. These natural disasters have grave economic consequences
    The direct costs resulting from natural disasters lower annual gross domestic product by 0.8 percent, Jerry Velasquez, coordinator for the Asia-Pacific region of the United Nations International Strategy for Disaster Reduction (UNISDR), told Deutsche Welle…
    Economic growth of almost 7 percent is based on the rapid growth of the productive population. At the same time, the population is increasingly in danger “because people are willing to accept risk for short-term profits,” Velasquez says. Industries choose production sites on rivers and in coastal regions, and workers follow suit. As a result, more people are affected by storms and floods. The infrastructure and industrial facilities in emerging countries are also more easily damaged, says the UN report, due to weaker building structures and materials…
    http://www.dw.de/natural-disasters-threaten-philippine-growth/a-17219526


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    pat

    13 Nov: Businessweek: AP: Karl Ritter: UN: Besides Haiyan, 2013 storm season near average
    Apart from Typhoon Haiyan, which has devastated the Philippines, it’s been an average year for tropical cyclones, the U.N. weather agency said Wednesday in its annual climate report.
    The World Meteorological Organization counted 86 tropical storms so far this year, just three short of the annual average since 1981. They were unevenly spread across the globe…
    http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-11-13/un-besides-haiyan-2013-storm-season-near-average


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        Yonniestone

        Is this Monty Python day or something? :)
        Funny thing is most Canadians I’ve known have a similar sense of humor to Australians, we had Canadian neighbors once who introduced us to the real Halloween festivities, they had their decorations from Canada and a huge party, fantastic time.
        Then again I worked with a French bloke who just picked up and ran with our humor, maybe we’re a bit infectious too.


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    ROM

    Lets see now
    1 / Australia is on track to remove the so called “carbon” tax.
    [ Gillard and her Labor Co were apparently just too bloody dumb and stupid to know it's Carbon dioxide, an essential to plants and all life atmospheric gas they were actually taxing ]

    2 / Canada which doesn’t have a so called “carbon” tax congratulates Australia for it’s proposed removal of the tax/

    3 / The Poles are revolting
    Or at least they are revolting big time over the possibility of the UN and EU trying to force carbon taxes onto them.

    5 / The Germans Merkel and her minority government are desperately trying to find a political solution that will enable them to back out of the immense subsidies to renewable eneregy and their carbon taxes .
    All the while building a dozen new coal fired power generators as their power supplies become more and more precarious and unreliable.
    Mean while BASF, one of Germany’s and the worlds oldest and largest chemical companies has just announced they will close up shop in Germany and move everything to the USA unless energy prices are drastically reduced and soon, very soon.

    6 / Cameron in the UK is staring down the barrel of rapidly rising unemployment as industry and business shuts up shop because it can no longer compete due to high energy prices
    The UK has perhaps as much shale gas and oil in it’s extraordinary 500 metre thick shale deposits [ 30 metres thick shale seams in the USA ] as all of the USA but guess what , the UK Greens are doing everything possible to prevent fracking. Better to have thousands die from hypothermia or go hungry and be out of work because they can’t afford the costs of the vaunted renewable energy while hundreds of billions of pounds worth and century’s worth of readily accessible energy lays a few hundred metres down right under their own feet.
    Cameron is beginning a political about turn on global warming as the shit hits the fan in the UK.

    7 / The Chinese are building coal and nuclear power generators as fast as they can churn them out and are now going to dam the head waters of most of Asia’s main rivers for hydro power with a dozen or more major dams and that has all the hall marks of a real environmental disaster in the making for the rest of Asia.

    8 /The USA’s Obama announces crazy new draconian environmental rules and taxes to be administered through the EPA which he alone controls as president through the original act of Congress setting up the EPA so it would not become a political football of Congress
    And then Obama reneges on the $100 billion fund to fight global warming effects in undeveloped countries Hmmm!
    The back door for the global warming political escape door is unlocked.

    9 / The rapidly submerging Maldives in the Indian Ocean which is going under due to global warming sea level rise is rapidly building and developing another dozen huge tourist hotels and extending their airport.

    10 / The French are revolting big time as only the French do with burning of traffic cameras set up to collect green house taxes from traffic and much more. The French premier’s position is very shaky and the President Hollande’s position is not far behind as the intention to impose a whole raft of green house taxes on the french economy comes apart.
    Yep! The French like the Poles, are revolting.

    11 / The Spanish have removed or drastically reduced nearly all of their renewable energy subsidies as they are some 26 to 30 billion euros behind in energy taxes collected as against energy subsidies payed to the renewable energy scammers.
    They were going broke paying for renewable energy at the rates originally set by the Spanish governments which was to supposedly stop global warming.

    12 / The Danes, the center of wind energy technology and turbine production are calling quits on more subsidies to the renewable energy scamming industry. They literally give energy to Sweden when the wind turbines are running near capacity as they have too much but still have to pay the wind energy scammers for the energy produced even when not used by Denmark and then have to buy back energy from the Swedish hydro generators when the wind stops blowing.

    A big lose / lose proposition for the Danes.

    13 / The Norwegians have abandoned their multi billion dollar project which was still in the research phase after a decade and a billion dollars spent to sequester CO2 in their pumped out North Sea oil and gas reservoirs.
    If the Norgies with all their immense oil and gas field know how and with all those so convenient North Sea CO2 storage reservoirs right at hand couldn’t crack and make CO2 sequestration a viable and economic proposition then nobody can.

    It goes on !
    The great Juggernaut of global warming / climate change / extreme weather is rotting away before our very eyes and listening carefully you will hear the increasing level of cries and distressed lamentations of the believers as they watch their great cult like ideology of anthropogenic global swarming sinking slowly into the mire of societal indifference and increasing societal contempt for an ideology that was based on nothing more than a chimera of totally corrupt climate science that had nothing more substantial than an admitted agenda for a socialistic revolution underpinning it.


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      john robertson

      ROM great comment, I love the music of true believers coming unglued.
      Hopefully we will get endless U-tube footage of the warmists melting down.
      Funny how we stupid people just did not understand their great wisdom.


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      Graeme No.3

      Great summary.

      Re No.12 Don’t forget that the Norwegians were also getting Danish wind energy and getting upset about it. So at times the Danes had to pay (sell at a negative price is the jargon) to get rid of their excess wind electricity.

      It has been estimated that when roughly 20% of wind GENERATED in Denmark was from wind, that only 10% of electricity used in Denmark was from wind and the other 10% was “sold”. With their newer large offshore wind farms they can get up to 35% of generated electricity from wind, and use 10% inside Denmark, with the rest “sold” at a huge loss.
      OUCH ! No wonder they don’t want anymore wind energy.


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      Rereke Whakaaro

      Nice summary Rom.

      But if I may make a suggestion? Next time, can you please highlight the phrase, “The French are revolting big time”. Doing so, will add more credence for the British reader.


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      Peter Miller

      Well said; it’s called “The Emperor has no Clothes Syndrome” and in the case of the CAGW hoax it’s spreading fast.


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    pat

    BBC’s Hardtalk yesterday:

    at 16 mins, BBC’s Sackur: IEA says TWO THIRDS of fossil fuels needs to stay in the ground to avoid CATASTROPHIC GLOBAL WARMING (Sackur totally unconcerned about the 1.4 billion people, mostly in poor nations, who are still without access to electricity, & who certainly can’t afford renewables); Sackur ignores Scaroni’s answer & repeats two thirds of fossil fuels must be left in the ground. Scaroni tries to get across that only 1 percent of the consumption of energy is currentlly provided by renewables, which are expensive & intermittent, and how they won’t be able to provide a solution until the storage question is solved. has no effect on Sackur, who says this is about leadership. Sackur then criticises Russian gas! so what should the world do, Sackur. shut down energy altogether?

    23 mins: VIDEO: 13 Nov: BBC Hardtalk: CEO, Eni – Paolo Scaroni with Stephen Sackur
    Is energy Europe’s economic Achilles heel? While the US benefits from a massive investment in shale gas production, Europeans focus on decarbonising their economy while bickering about the relative merits of fracking, nuclear and renewable energy. Hardtalk speaks to Paolo Scaroni, boss of one of Europe’s energy giants, the Italian oil company Eni. How can Europe best safeguard its energy future?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01l0jdv/Hardtalk_CEO_Eni_Paolo_Scaroni/

    Sackur refers to the following in the Hardtalk interview with Scaroni:

    30 Oct: UK Financial Times: Russia and shale can solve Europe’s energy problem
    By Paolo Scaroni, CEO, ENI
    The sooner the region realises its energy policy is a mess, the sooner it can grow, says Paolo Scaroni.
    The aim of European energy policy should be to combine economic growth with environmental sustainability. However, we have ended up with energy costs that hamper growth – yet greenhouse gas emissions have not fallen despite the decline in energy consumption.
    The problem is that we have, so far, failed to grasp the implications of the US shale revolution for Europe. Thanks to the rapid increase in efficient non-conventional gas production, US companies pay about $3.50 per million British thermal units (mBtu) for their natural gas. That is about a third of what Europeans pay.
    Turning to electricity, not only are European consumers hit by relatively high gas feedstock prices, but they also have to pay an extra charge to cover the more than €30bn of incentives to invest in renewables which EU countries spend every year. As a result, Europe’s electricity is twice as expensive as America’s.
    Cheap energy gives the US a huge competitive advantage…
    As well as growing more expensive, European energy has grown dirtier. That is because cheap, clean gas has crowded out coal in power generation in America. And that coal has made its way across the Atlantic at prices that are still competitive compared with our own, higher, natural gas prices. All this has caused a deterioration in Europe’s energy mix: gas-fired power generation has decreased by 25 per cent between 2010 and 2012, while coal-fired power generation has increased by 10 per cent. The paradox is that the rise in carbon emissions caused by the extra coal has almost wiped out the benefits of the investments in renewables and the reduced economic activity of the past five years…
    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b2004320-3d90-11e3-9928-00144feab7de.html#axzz2kZP8pbPr


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      Graeme No.3

      Under the forward plans of the EU, in Germany BASF would be paying 3 times the cost of electricity in the USA. And the same with gas. Gives them a certain incentive to move.

      By the way for those who don’t know, BASF’s main plant is 7 km. long and includes 2 train stations.


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    handjive

    O/T

    The Prime Directive.

    The problem: New life discovered growing on plastic waste dubbed the ‘plastisphere’

    Do we sacrifice the new life for the old life, like the turtles ?

    Yeh, I know this is real life, not Starship Enterprise, but, the environazis want to ban plastic bags.


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    Mattb

    o/t but I’m looking forward to your o/t post
    i) slamming the Libs for wanting to recklessly and massively raise the debt ceiling, and championing the ALP’s more responsible approach, and
    ii) slamming the Libs for removing the carbon price but STILL paying the compensation for the tax Australians (totally bizarre set of circumstances there)


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      slamming the Libs for removing the carbon price but STILL paying the compensation for the tax Australians (totally bizarre set of circumstances there)

      Oh, not really Mattb.

      The tricky Labor Greens (without actually explaining their full intent on how much the total take was) compensated 80% of Australian households for increased electricity bills due to the CO2 Tax, as they so artfully said, cleverly saying that, hey, we’re giving you more than it costs you, snicker snicker!

      CO2 emissions from the electricity generating sector are 40% of emissions.

      The residential sector consumes only 25% of electrical power.

      So that compensation comes in at 80% of 40% of 25% of the total projected income from the CO2 tax or only 8% of the total incoming.

      I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve actually said this here at Joanne’s site.

      I guess you either read only selective things you want to read, or are just wishing to promote a Green agenda by criticising those who actually won the election by stating that the repeal of the CO2 Tax was their intent.

      Tony.


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        Mattb

        Tony: Is the Lib govt going to keep paying carbon tax compensation despite repealing the carbon tax? It’s a simple yes/no question.


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          That’s because they are responsible economic managers. Less tax, more handouts. What could possibly go wrong?


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            Mattb

            What is it, they’ve been in for a month and want to raise the debt ceiling by about 40%, to $170 billion above Treasury’s most recent peak debt forecasts, with no explanation, no justification, and a claim that if we don’t we’ll have US govt style shutdowns by Christmas:)


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              Mattb

              That may be $130b sorry. Current debt ceiling is $300b, to be reached this year. They want to go to $500b, even though treasury forecasts are for debt to peak at $370b in 4 years. ALP being case as tea party types (note that our conservative govt mocks tea party ideals) for wanting to go to $400b.


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              MemoryVault

              .
              Don’t get out much then, do we, MattyB?

              Australia’s debt ceiling currently stands at $300 billion.

              On current, standard, recurring expenditure outlays, we will hit that ceiling on December 12, that is, in just over four weeks time. This would have been the position regardless of who won the last election, or indeed, even if we hadn’t had one.

              We are in this position entirely as a result of the last six years of irresponsible, profligate, pork-barreling, vote-buying expenditure by the KRudd-JuLIAR governments.

              It is pointless simply raising the ceiling to $400 billion, as the $300 billion existing debt doesn’t include things like the NBN and some other ‘off-book’ expenses, which together already add over another $100 billion.

              Obviously Hockey intends to bring these expenses back ‘on-book’ prior to his first budget, so Australians can see just how bad the situation really is. So, only raising the ceiling to $400 billion would mean going through the entire exercise again in less than six months. Neither Labor nor the Greens want this debt amalgamation, as it will well and truly bring home to Aussies just what a bunch of deadshit money managers they were. Hence their hysterical opposition.

              All this stuff, including the inevitability of having to raise the debt ceiling, was being openly discussed all the way back in May, even on the ABC. I might add even the ABC no longer pretends to place any credence in “Treasury forecasts” made under Swan. For you, as a local government Councillor, to claim no knowledge of these things is hard to swallow – even for Margot, who is apparently well versed in such matters.


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              Scott

              Labor spending sending the debt ceiling so high in the first place due to reakless non beneficial spending with zero return on investment.

              Add treasury’s excellent history of getting forecasts correct so lets set that ceiling at their estimate

              what could go wrong


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                DT

                Having borrowed to their $300 Billion debt ceiling Labor continued borrowing without raising the ceiling further and when they left office had borrowed a total of around $360 Billion, plus hidden off budget NBNCo borrowings. They did not achieve one budget surplus over six years and the cumulative loss was over $200 Billion when they left office. Furthermore they failed to fund budgeted expenditure beyond 30 June 2013 leaving the Coalition a huge black hole when the terms of trade are shrinking, revenue dropping as the mining boom tapers off.

                But when Labor took office in 2007 there was zero debt, the Coalition retired the Keating Labor debt of $96 Billion plus interest, about $173 Billion repaid by 2006. The Coalition also handed Labor a $22 Billion budget surplus which they promptly spent. And some $60 Billion Future Funds investment and a smaller education fund, $5 Billion I recall.

                Since 2007 Labor have until recently had record high revenue yet they had budgets in deficit and borrowed to spend more, as socialists globally do when in power.

                And now Labor are attempting to wash their hands of their incompetence and are in denial about the mountain of mess they left behind. I hope voters never ever forget 2007-2013 and what these comrades have done.


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                Mattb

                DT you may have missed the whole GFC thing… not surprising if you were australian where the government wisely got us through unscathed.


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                Eddie Sharpe

                No your brand new NLP Government is getting you through the whole GCF thing with no more scathing too.


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            Rereke Whakaaro

            Nothing, as long as you refrain from jumping to conclusions.


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              DT

              MattB I am well aware of the northern hemisphere financial crisis that Rudd Labor called the GFC, in fact former treasurer Peter Costello warned that an impact here was likely as the storm clouds gathered and Labor laughed at him and claimed that he was scare mongering when he said it was not a good time to change government into inexperienced hands.

              Australia was one of few nations that had modernised its economy commencing 1985 based on a former treasurer John Howard plan known as the Campbell Report which Hawke Labor (and Lange Labour NZ) adopted with Coalition in opposition full support. The new economy plan was completed by the Howard Coalition government from 1996 including them establishing the Australian Prudential Regulatory Authority to watch over the banking system, something Labor thought was not necessary.

              Furthermore, from 1996 to 2006 the Coalition had repaid a $96 Billion plus interest Keating Labor debt so by 2007 there was zero debt. They also managed mostly budgets in surplus and left a $22 Billion surplus for Rudd Labor. They left a single speed strong economy too. Accordingly Australia was better placed than most developed nations to withstand financial crisis, albeit here far less damaging than most nations experienced.

              But Rudd and his Gang of Four used their GFC as an excuse to spend the $22 Billion immediately against the advice of Treasury and Finance. And the Coalition. And then went on to borrow and spend on party political programmes to gain political points. Why? Because the 2007 election result produced new seats but too many marginal and likely to be lost in 2010, as that election result showed. The Coalition in 2010 won one more seat than Labor.

              So angry over the spending and squandering of record high revenues, of huge borrowings, plus NBNCo borrowings, the then Minister for Finance Lindsay Tanner resigned, declined from contesting the 2010 election.

              If you believe your Labor comrades were good managers who saved Australia from the GFC you are deluded. The worst case scenerio at the lowest point was a potential very mild recession of minus less than 1 per cent GDP. As it was the economy slowed despite excessive stimulus to about 1 per cent GDP growth. Noting that much if not most of the spending was wasted. Rudd even sent $900 to foreigners who had worked during their holidays here. They did what they wanted to do to save themselves from losing the 2010 election.

              And now in 6 years we have a huge debt burden plus annual interest liabilities and a mountain of mess to clean up after your socialist comrades.


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                Brett

                ” it was a dramatic loosening of monetary policy and an exchange rate depreciation of nearly 30 per cent on a sustained basis throughout the crisis interval that best explains how Australia avoided a narrowly defined recession.

                In other words, the floating dollar, not fiscal stimulus, really did the trick.

                Paul Keating, Bob Hawke, Peter Costello and John Howard can all claim some credit, the first pair for the float of the dollar, and the second for making the Reserve Bank more independent.”

                “Aggregate public spending has risen in subsequent quarters, but due to administrative delays in implementing new programs, the extra spending arrived after the worst of the GFC had passed.

                This is consistent with numerous studies of the effects of past episodes of fiscal expansion in advanced economies, which show that fiscal policy tends to have an impact well after the worst of any economic downturn has passed. For instance, a recent IMF study of advanced economies concludes that fiscal expansion in the form of capital spending as a rule arrives too late, on average around a year after downturns begin.”


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      AndyG55

      I’ll keep it REALLY SIMPLE so the likes of Matt and Margot can understand.

      The Labor wastrels have set the system so that more was going out than coming in.

      That means that until this is rectified, which can’t be done overnight without causing very major issues, the debt level will continue to rise.

      If the debt ceiling is not significantly increased, there will be no more government funds.

      As things stand, we will reach this point on about Dec 12th.

      Now if you were looking to buy a house at auction.. (which is what the ALP has essentially left the country with, and auction where we HAVE to buy the house) .. would you seek to borrow more, or less, than the maximum price you thought you would have to pay?

      THINK… if you can !!!!!!!!


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        DT

        Andy people like them have no ability to understand, they seem to think that governments just have money and should spend it on them. In fact I doubt that they could explain the difference between revenue and profit.


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        Kevin Lohse

        Very succinct Andy. However you forget the propensity of Lefties to political amnesia. The fiscal incontinence which set fair to ruining your Nation under Julia/Rudd never happened and that nice Mr Swan was the epitome of financial management. M2 (Matt and Margot) have already forgotten events, as the supreme irony of Margot’s “Less tax, more handouts. What could possibly go wrong?” – a classical case of Lefty projection – amply demonstrates. The Left spends Other People’s Money until all is gone, then blames everyone else for their profligate ways. No doubt, M2 are already calling for taxpayer’s money to be sent to the Philippines before dipping into their own shovel purses. ( If I’m wrong over that I apologise unreservedly). In our liberal democracies, it invariably falls upon the centre-right to correct the spendthrift ways of the Left. Your auctioned house needs repairs to the roof and the foundations which have been left to rot by the outgoing mob. The Coalition is setting out the plan to put the house to rights.


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          AndyG55

          Sorry Kevin.. I was trying to keep it “REAL SUMPLE” for M&M.

          You know they really struggle with hard detail and facts!


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          AndyG55

          “before dipping into their own shovel purses”

          I reckon that everyone who thinks that the typhoon was caused by climate change should have to donate $100 to the appeal, and go without coal fired electricity for 2-3 weeks so that they are not out of pocket.


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    What I really want to know is whether Australia is going to opt out of Kyoto.


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    Nathan

    Yeh I know, not quite on topic but very interesting, bizarre, “what the?”
    (why don’t my links work?)
    Spain taxing the sun. I thought solar power is supposed to be free energy?
    Taxing the Sun: Spain’s solar police to kick in your door


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      Rereke Whakaaro

      Nathan,

      Use the blue link button above the comment window. The best way to do it is to type “see here”, highlight that, and press the link button and fill in the popup window with the address.


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      Graeme No.3

      Yes,
      not only has the Spanish Government ended all subsidies for “renewable” energy but they are now demanding compensation for the loss of business and disruption caused by household (and business) solar panels. They are desperate as the subsidies were rapidly sending them broke.

      Spain calls it the “tariff deficit,” a massive debt that accumulated over the past decade as the cost of running the country’s electrical system exceeded the revenues generated by sales of power. In May, the tariff deficit reached a whopping $34 billion.

      Overly generous renewable energy subsidies are at least partially to blame. In 2007, Spain paid a premium of $556 per megawatt-hour for electricity that rooftop solar panels supplied to the electric grid, compared with an average $52 paid to competing coal- or gas-fired power plants. By 2012, a whopping $10.6 billion in subsidies were paid out to the renewable energy industry, rising by about 20% from the previous year, and covering more than one third of all electricity generated in Spain.

      The result was massive over investment in generating capacity. Spain can now generate twice what it needs (whereas a few years ago it was an importer of electricity from France and Andorra).

      In April, renewable energy accounted for a record-setting 54% of the electricity generated in Spain, nearly tripling its share of the pie from just 19% in 2006. This is because “renewables” are given ‘first come’ priority, displacing normal supply.

      So Spain was paying out for more and more “renewables” and selling less and less conventional electricity, which they got paid for. The associated economics are something akin to the apocalypse.

      The “taxing the sun” bit comes about as they try to extend the “privilege” of paying electricity bills to those who took subsidies ( on panels) but didn’t connect to the grid. I’m not sure how this will go in the courts.

      Germany has signalled it will end solar subsidies in 2017. Even the UK wants to reduce them.

      Would one of our trolls like to explain how solar power is so much cheaper than coal or gas fired?


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      • #

        Thanks Graeme.

        Spain and it’s solar power.

        There are 24 of those Concentrating Solar Plants. Cost for all of them is hard to find, but look in the vicinity of $15 to $18 Billion (converted to AUD). Probably half or even more was paid up front so they could be constructed, not as a loan, but as outright grants, in much the same manner as they have done here in Oz.

        On top of that, The Government, as part of the contract, pays (subsidises) a cost for every KWH of power generated so the power can be (a little more, but not much) competitive, which it will never be.

        Those huge costs are paid by every consumer of electricity.

        And just what do Spaniards get for their money?

        24 of these solar plants, each one having a life span of 25 years. They will supply, (every one of those 24 plants) a total of 4483GWH of power each year, so for 25 years (provided they can actually keep supplying that same Capacity) a total of 112TWH of power, undoubtedly a huge amount of power.

        Bayswater, just the ONE coal fired plant, will supply that same amount of power in 6.6 years. In fact, Bayswater has already supplied 4.2 times the total power these plants will deliver in their lifetime, and Bayswater has a number of years to go yet.

        Around $18 Billion for 6.6 years of power, and that’s just the construction cost alone.

        24 solar plants for 25 years.

        ONE coal fired plant for 6.6 years.

        Do not EVER try and tell me that CSP will replace coal fired power.

        Tony.


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          ROM

          One nice little solar earner that the Spanish eventually uncovered was to buy power at the very low industrial rates and then power up the really big spotlights at night and shine them onto the solar panels to generate that very lucrative solar power right through the night as well as through the day.

          Another lurk was the big diesel chugging away, way down in the back blocks of the solar farm right through each night.

          A few years ago Spain was quite a rarity in that some of it’s solar farms could generate that very lucrative and well paying solar power for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
          The Spanish renewable energy scammers makes our lot of world ranking renewable energy scammers look like rank amateurs.


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    pat

    14 Nov: Scotsman: Jonathan Hughes: Nature is good for business
    Corporations are getting serious about the financial value of the environment, writes Jonathan Hughes
    Something unexpected is happening in the world of big business. Corporate giants such as Unilever, Puma, SABMiller and the Coca-Cola Company are beginning to understand, and even embrace, nature conservation. And they are doing so because it’s good for business.
    This trend will be explored at the inaugural World Forum on Natural Capital, taking place in Edinburgh this month. The global conference will bring together business leaders, environmentalists and government representatives to debate “natural capital”, defined as the world’s stocks of natural assets including geology, soil, air, water and all living things…
    Not all environmental campaigners are comfortable with this approach. Opponents suggest it could lead to the “commodification of nature” and fear natural resources could be sold to the highest bidder. They argue the intrinsic value of nature must take precedence and a price cannot be placed on the priceless…
    At the government level, countries around the world are developing or considering legislation on natural capital, including Botswana, Costa Rica, Colombia, Georgia, Germany, Peru, Philippines and the United Kingdom, all of whom met early this year at the Bundestag in Berlin to share ideas on natural capital accounting in the public sector. The coalition government has set up a high-level natural capital committee to look at where, when and how natural assets are being used unsustainably…
    Why, for example, continue to source a raw material such as cotton or rubber from an agricultural ecosystem where soil is eroding and aquifers are drying up when there are sustainably managed ecosystems in other parts of the world as alternatives? The simplistic answer might be that it is cheaper. Financially, in the short term this may sometimes be the case, but in the medium to long term the risk of ecosystem collapse, and subsequent supply insecurity and price volatility, could have profound effects on the bottom line. Hence the interest in natural capital from enlightened CEOs who are beginning to realise that working with, not against, nature ultimately makes good business sense.
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/jonathan-hughes-nature-is-good-for-business-1-3185932

    Guardian fails to mention it is the Principal Media Partner for the Forum:

    12 Nov: Guardian: Natural capital must be the way forward, says IUCN director general
    Ahead of the World Forum on Natural Capital, Tim Smedley speaks to Julia Marton-Lefevre about the role of business in conservation
    “Nature is not just something that we should cry about”, she says, her accent an assertive mix of French and American. “We must talk in a positive way about nature providing solutions.”
    The number one positive message she has for conservation right now is “natural capital”. The World Forum on Natural Capital taking place in Edinburgh later this month (21-22 November) is arguably the culmination of that 1980 report. The “riches of nature”, once simply a turn of phrase, can now be calculated…
    Natural capital has been criticised by some as the commodification of nature. A counter forum protesting against the World Forum on Natural Capital argues that “once a price is put on nature, all of our common resources can be bought, sold and packaged”.
    In Marton-Lefevre’s view, nature is already bought, sold and packaged, in the form of timber, meat and minerals. The only price assigned to them currently is the one they fetch at market. Natural capital in contrast puts a price on what else is lost in their extraction, and what would be gained by keeping the trees, animals and minerals where they are…
    She even informs of a “resilience aliance initiative” set up by Shell, Dow Chemicals and Unilever among others, “talking the same language as our members of nature-based solutions … all these CEOs have agreed that much of their resilience depends on protecting natural capital”. If this seems an unlikely – even unholy – alliance of extractive industries, then Marton-Lefevre defends it. “Shell are providing us with something that our society thinks it needs … we need to look at the whole picture a bit more fairly, because we all buy the products of these companies.”
    http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/natural-capital-way-forward-iucn

    Ms Julia Marton-Lefevre became Director General of IUCN in 2007. Previously she was Rector of the University for Peace, a UN Treaty Organization with its main campus in San Jose, Costa Rica. She is also Vice Chair of the World Resources Institute and a member of a number of boards and commissions, including: the Board of Directors of the International Institute for Environment and Development (IIED) and LEAD International, and the Board of Trustees of the Bibliotheca Alexandrina. She serves on environmental advisory bodies to the Dow Chemical Company and The Coca-Cola Company…
    http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/commission/people/259

    Talk about Talkfests – check out the number of speakers:

    Our Speakers – World Forum on Natural Capital – Edinburgh 2013
    http://www.naturalcapitalforum.com/speakers

    Forum Programme
    http://www.naturalcapitalforum.com/programme

    Headline Sponsor is Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS):

    May 2012: Guardian: Rob Edwards: RBS involved in £40bn loans to fossil fuel companies in past six months
    Friends of the Earth Scotland’s analysis finds state-owned bank helped fund £3bn in loans for renewable energy in same period
    The publicly-owned Royal Bank of Scotland has been involved in at least £40bn worth of loans solely to fossil fuel companies around the world over the past six months, according to an analysis by green campaigners, seen by the Guardian…
    The loans included £414m for coal-fired power stations in India, plus investments in the US coal giant, Duke Energy, and the London-based exploration company, Tullow Oil…
    RBS has previously been criticised for funding the damaging extraction of tar sands to the tune of £4.8bn, and is expected to face fresh accusations before its annual general meeting this week. Last year it pulled out of sponsoring the UK’s largest campaign to combat climate change, after coming under attack for “corporate greenwash”…
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/may/28/rbs-loans-40bn-fossil-fuel-companies


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    pat

    12 Nov: Russia Today: Unintended consequences: US ethanol revolution causes ‘ecological disaster’
    Since the Obama administration began implementing the ethanol mandate – requiring a certain level of the biofuel to be added to the gasoline supply – the Associated Press found that the damage done by the program has dwarfed any suspected benefits, many of which failed to materialize in the first place.
    Since President Obama took office, roughly five million acres of land set aside for conservation have been lost in the drive to harvest more corn for ethanol, the investigation found. Farmers have plowed into land previously unused for farming, releasing amounts of carbon dioxide into the air that would take native plants decades to reduce naturally.
    Billons of pounds of fertilizer were also used on land, some of which has leaked into drinking water, rivers, and has expanded the Gulf of Mexico’s dead zone, which can no longer support life.
    “This is an ecological disaster,” said Craig Cox with the Environmental Working Group to the AP. Cox’s group, once a White House ally, now opposes the administration’s ethanol policies…
    *** On top of this, the price of corn has more than doubled since 2010.
    As a result, the ethanol industry has come under fire from a surprising coalition of oil companies who oppose the mandate and green groups who consider corn-based ethanol to be a net harm to the environment…
    Regardless, the tangible benefits of ethanol have become low enough that the EPA is set to lower the amount of ethanol required in the gas supply. Critics of the mandate are now suggesting the government scrap it entirely, while the Washington Post also published a story today, headlined “Time to kill the corn ethanol mandate.”
    Though the ethanol mandate was signed into law by President George W. Bush before his second term ended, implementation fell to the incoming Obama administration. The EPA was skeptical from the outset, due to concern that planting and harvesting so much corn would release enough carbon dioxide into the atmosphere to make the benefits of ethanol uncertain at best.
    “I don’t remember anybody having great passion for this,” Bob Sussman, who worked on Obama’s transition team and recently retired as EPA’s senior policy counsel, said to the AP. “I don’t have a lot of personal enthusiasm for the program.”
    Obama himself did not even refer to ethanol in his last major speech on the environment, though whether any action is taken outside of lowering the ethanol requirement for gas remains to be seen.
    http://rt.com/usa/us-green-push-ethanol-615/

    13 Nov: UK Independent: Andrew Grice: No rest until 2030: Energy and water bills will keep soaring for 17 years, public spending watchdogs warn
    The National Audit Office (NAO) blamed the price rises on the Government’s decision to load two-thirds of the £310bn cost of infrastructure projects needed to maintain energy and water supplies on to customers’ bills rather than fund them through taxation.
    It predicted that the average household energy bill will rise by 66 per cent – from £1,290 this year to £2,135 by 2030. Water bills will vary around the country but could jump by 80 per cent – from £388 this year to £698 in 2030…
    ***It expressed concern that the poorest families would not be able to cope with the rising cost of energy and water. Some 8 per cent of average household spending now goes on energy and water, but for those in the bottom 10 per cent of the income scale, the proportion is 15 per cent, said the NAO…
    ***Yesterday, the French firm EDF announced that its prices will rise by 3.9 per cent. This is significantly less than the rises announced by rivals, but it warned that more increases could come if the Government does not back down on so-called green levies…
    Energy companies pointed to research suggesting that 95 per cent of the price rises to 2020 would be due to government-imposed levies and network costs…
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-rest-until-2030-energy-and-water-bills-will-keep-soaring-for-17-years-public-spending-watchdogs-warn-8935657.html


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      Graeme No.3

      Germany has lots of wind and solar and has very high electricity prices.
      Denmark has lots of wind power and very high electricity prices.
      Spain has lots of solar and wind power and is going broke (see 26.2 above).
      France has lots of nuclear and has low electricity prices.
      Poland has lots of black coal fired power and even lower prices.

      The UK Gov. wants to shut down its nuclear and coal fired plants and increase the amount of wind power. I would think that a 66% predicted increase is quite likely, and if they are so stupid as to continue along their path far less than it could be.


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      AndyG55

      ooo.. if they remove the mandate on ethanol in fuel, quite a few green capitalists are going to get stung… :-)

      Do it !! :-)

      And if they also start dropping subsidies on inefficient alternate energy system world-wide,

      Big Green is going to get very upset…. now wouldn’t that be such a pity ! ;-)


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    pat

    am getting ready to watch the Little Master’s final Test Match, so posting everything i’ve collected!

    another taste of the TPP:

    13 Nov: Russia Today: TPP Uncovered: WikiLeaks releases draft of highly-secretive multi-national trade deal
    Details of a highly secretive, multi-national trade agreement long in works have been published by WikiLeaks, and critics say there will be major repercussions for much of the modern world if it’s approved in this incarnation…
    Upon the publication of an excerpt obtained by WikiLeaks this week, however, opponents of the act are insisting that provisions dealing with creation, invention and innovation could serve a severe blow to everyone, particularly those the internet realm.
    Although the TPP covers an array of topics — many of which have not been covered by past agreements, according to Obama — WikiLeaks has published a chapter from a draft dated August 30, 2013 that deals solely on Intellectual Property, or IP, rights…
    http://rt.com/usa/wikileaks-tpp-ip-dotcom-670/


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    pat

    NOT YET PASSED INTO LAW…just yet!

    30 Oct: Forbes: Tom Groenfeldt: Banks, Led By Citi, Lobby House (Successfully) To Limit Dodd-Frank On Derivatives
    The bill, H.R. 992 or the “Swaps Regulatory Improvement Act,” would severely limit the reach of Sec. 716 in Dodd-Frank, which requires banks that are eligible for Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or Federal Reserve lending discounts to spin off their derivatives activities into separate corporate entities that would not be eligible for federal assistance.
    According to the New York Times, lobbyists from Citigroup C +0.95% played a major role in the bill’s creation: “Citigroup’s recommendations were reflected in more than 70 lines of the House committee’s 85-line bill,” Eric Lipton and Ben Protess write. “Two crucial paragraphs, prepared by Citigroup in conjunction with other Wall Street banks, were copied nearly word for word. (Lawmakers changed two words to make them plural.)”
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomgroenfeldt/2013/10/30/banks-led-by-citi-lobby-house-successfully-to-limit-dodd-frank-on-derivatives/

    12 Nov: AllGov: House Votes to Protect Citigroup if It Gambles and Loses
    Under the Dodd-Frank Act of 2010 (pdf), banks can no longer use monies backed by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) to invest in high-risk derivatives, such as “swaps.” This prohibition was adopted because derivatives crippled numerous key players on Wall Street five years ago, including Countrywide Mortgages, Bear Stearns, AIG, Lehman Brothers, Washington Mutual, Wachovia and others.
    One of those “others” was Citigroup, which had to be bailed out by the federal government to the tune of $45 billion. A Citigroup lobbyist, though, was primarily responsible for authoring the Swaps Regulatory Improvement Act, which was approved by the U.S. House of Representatives two weeks ago.

    ***(COMMODITIES, ENERGY)The bill would wipe out Section 716 (pdf) of Dodd-Frank that requires banks to use a non-bank entity for trading commodity, energy and other swaps.

    In other words, if the legislation becomes law, financial institutions could return to conducting high-risk trading with funds that are backed by the FDIC (i.e. the taxpayer)…
    http://www.allgov.com/news/where-is-the-money-going/house-votes-to-protect-citigroup-if-it-gambles-and-loses-131112?news=851642

    4 Nov: Risk.net: UBS beefs up US equity derivatives team
    Nomura has made a number of additions to its Asian derivatives teams…
    Citi has appointed Mahnaz Safa as head of sales for the European derivatives solutions group (DSG). Based in London, she will focus on corporate clients in the UK and Ireland, reporting to Sanjay Khemani, head of corporate sales for the DSG for Europe, the Middle East and Africa (Emea)…
    http://www.risk.net/risk-magazine/news/2304474/people-ubs-beefs-up-us-equity-derivatives-team


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    Mark D.

    This is more good news but really, Canada could’ve used some global warming.


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    Sunray

    “How sweet it is, Norton”!


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    Andrew McRae

    Wikileaks has leaked the August draft of the Intellectual Property chapter of the Trans-Pacific Partnership treaty.
    https://wikileaks.org/tpp/static/pdf/Wikileaks-secret-TPP-treaty-IP-chapter.pdf

    I’m still looking for all the dirt in it, but here is the first thing I found mentioning the Internet:

    Article QQ.I.1:
    {Internet Service Provider Liability}
    [CL/BN/NZ/MY/VN/CA/SG/MX propose; AU/US oppose: 1. Each Party shall limit the liability of, or the availability of remedies against, internet service providers [when acting as intermediaries], for infringement of copyright or related rights that take place on or through communication networks, in relation to the provision or use of their services.]

    Right, so ISP’s liability should be limited according to the sensible countries, but according to the draconian US and AU it sounds like… only a megacorporation which can fund armies of lawyers and net-nannies and monitors all your communications (ostensibly to check for infringing content) can hope to be an ISP under this treaty. (Note that the Government itself fulfils such a description and ours are busy building a National Broadband Network, hmmm, just a co-incidence.)
    I’d predict ISP mergers and acquisitions to go like the clappers until Telstra, Optus, and iiNet are the only ISPs in the country, and Internet access prices go up instead of down. Just another case of corporatism giving a helping hand to big business while for the small and medium businesses it’s a boot in the face.

    13. To the extent that any civil remedy [VN propose; MX oppose:] can be ordered as a result of administrative procedures on the merits of a case, each Party shall provide that such procedures conform to principles equivalent in substance to those set out in this Article (civil and administrative proceedings)

    Hey Sovereign Nations, you can pick any colour you like, as long as it’s blue!

    It gets worse the more I read.


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    DT

    This has to be the quote of the week: The government’s document also says that Australia “will not support any measures which are socialism masquerading as environmentalism”


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      Mattb

      … apart from direct action…


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        DT

        Direct action MattB is merely an extension of the Howard Coalition greenhouse office iniatives that managed to lower greenhouse gas emissions (note not only CO2) to the level required at Kyotoa for Australia with no extra taxes. As Howard commented recently, back in the Kyoto days the Coalition government was caught in a perfect storm, socialists claimimg global warming at a time when Australia faced a severe drought and a majority of Australians believed the alarmist’s fairy tales. But the Coalition continues to support reduction of pollution now that most Australians know that global warming stalled in 1998 and that climate change political agenda propaganda is a lie.


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        Dave

        MattyB,

        You should take up direct action yourself like a Harvard-educated professor is set to spend one year living in a 33-square-foot dumpster. Dr Jeff Wilson, who teaches environmental science at Huston-Tillotson University in Austin, Texas, says he wants to spread awareness about sustainability and promote the model of ‘less is more’. He will move into the six-foot-nine-inch high steel waste bin – which gives him eight inches of head room – on Thanksgiving day with only a sports bag full of possessions.

        Surely you can organise a dumpster for all the Vincent City Councillors in the car park there, and at the very least for yourself.


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        Joe V.

        “…apart from direct action…” says Matty B.

        I don’t think the kind if direct action they have in mind is the socialist style theatre the likes of Get Up ! get up to, standing around waving placards, chanting and orchestrating mass intimidation campaigns via public media.


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        Dave

        MattyB and Margot,

        GET BACK TO ME?

        Get back to me when your wind power, geothermal, wave energy, solar panels and biofuels can provide you little rubbish bin existence with manufactured milk powder for your lattes , IT infused coffee beans, human hair jumpers, soya substitute sausages, internet generated garlic, barley organic batteries and sustainable wheelie bin lifestyle.

        You’re both full of lies and are both approaching criminal behaviour. CO2 is not pollution, CO2 does not cause storms, CO2 does not cause famine, CO2 does not cause drought, CO2 does not cause heat.

        CO2 is a molecule that has been and will be in existence as long as our planet is looked after, but unfortunately, you lot of GANG GREENS are no longer the custodians of this planet. You have abused your right to complain and dictate. You are the abusers of the environment and a threat to future generations.

        Adults and reasonable people have taken charge, and your credit card has expired.


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    Dave

    Ivanpah solar thermal power facility testing now.

    The 392 megawatts (MW) that has cost $2.2 Billion plus so far is testing the 170,000 heliostat mirrors that focus sunlight onto three solar energy boilers.

    Boilers is the reason this reflective giant is in trouble.

    They BarBQue chickens in flight, and the mirrors attract water birds that think it is a lake etc.

    1. Over 280 species of bird occupy this area of the desert.
    2. It’s located near two of the region’s key refuges and stopping points for birds migrating along the Pacific Flyway.
    3. Birds flying through the focused heat or thermal flux get charred, singed, or broiled instantly, and worse death rates than giant wind choppers.
    4. Death from impact trauma for many water birds landing on the heliostat mirrors.
    5. Temperatures near the tower reach over 700 deg C – no wonder they fry.
    6. Beautiful shining death ray for birds.
    7. Three separate orders available, par boiled, singed, and crispy.
    8. More than 60 percent of carcasses on the site have been found away from panels which indicate heat trauma.

    These stupid George Clooney look at me please death ray facilities should be shut down. Where is Greenpeace, M&M, Christine Milne, Adam Can’t etc that should be screaming about this?

    The GANG GREENS are after the money now, and are not interested in saving the planets environment for our children, their children and future generations.

    Disgusting GANG GREEN M&M’s all of them.


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      Yanks! Always want the biggest.

      This Ivanpah solar plant will actually be utilising the new and big (and enormously expensive) Siemens SST-900 steam turbine, actually capable of driving a 125MW generator, providing they can make enough steam, that steam assisted by Natural Gas to heat it until the solar factor can take over, with natural gas auxilliary drive for when the Sun doesn’t shine for extended periods so the steam won’t cool by too much.

      So, here we will have three of these large solar complexes, covering 3500 Acres, umm, 5.5 square miles.

      The plant will have a maximum Nameplate of 375MW.

      It will supply 1,079GWH of power for (subsidised) consumption. That gives the plant a Capacity Factor of (a still theoretical) 31%, with most existing plants of similar nature delivering around 24 to 27% CF, and keep in mind there is no heat storage so that 31% CF equates to around seven and a half hours a day on average of power.

      The total power generated for consumption by this solar plant each year, that figure of 1079GWH is supplied by Bayswater in 23 days of normal operation.

      This solar plant has a projected life span of 25 years. The total power supplied over those 25 years will be supplied by Bayswater in one year and 7 Months.

      This solar plant has a construction cost alone of $2.2 Billion.

      Just to equal the Nameplate Capacity alone of Bayswater, you will need 7 of these plants at $2.2 Billion for a total of $15.2 Billion, and you only get one third of the power on a limited time basis, for only half the life span.

      THIS is what the GREENS are actually proposing for the future of electrical power generation.

      Clueless, absolutely clueless.

      Tony.


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      AndyG55

      “Where is Greenpeace, M&M, Christine Milne, Adam Can’t etc that should be screaming about this?”

      Dave.. you must realise by now, that Greenpeace, WWF etc have not been in the environmental stages for quite a long time.

      They are now purely regressive totalitarian political lobbyists, with a quite lot of money and power.

      They do not give a rat’s a*** about the environment unless they can make a buck out of it.

      They are a danger to man’s and nature’s existence on this planet.


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      Andrew McRae

      Awww, am I wrong to be disappointed that clicking on Dave’s “crispy” link did not show a video of a bird actually being fried in mid-flight?

      They should set up webcams around the solar tower where you can watch birds evaporate quicker than a surplus under Labor.


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        Dave

        Andrew,

        “They should set up webcams around the solar tower where you can watch birds evaporate quicker than a surplus under Labor” LOL :)

        Access is severely restricted now, so many bird deaths and no answers from Brightsource.
        A 24 hour video monitor covering the area would solve the problem (refused).
        But the crispy video will not come from Brightsource.

        BrightSource company representatives have consistently avoided discussing bird mortality.
        BrightSource submitted a presentation on possible methods for scaring birds away from harm.
        BrightSource suggested barking dogs or trained falcons might be effective.
        Brightsource suggested radio-controlled airplanes or water-cannon or shotgun blasts.
        Brightsource suggested fake owls might prevent bird mortality.
        California Department of Fish and Wildlife will not submit any briefs on the commission’s questions regarding bird death rates.
        BrightSource bought the project from bankrupt Solar Trust of America last year.
        The commission also asked whether the project might require official permits allowing the unintentional death of certain animals — called incidental take permits.

        The Riverside East solar zone, as the public land between Joshua Tree and Blythe was designated, is a solar-industrial corridor along I-10 that federal officials once envisioned with up to 80 percent of its 148,000 acres covered by panels or mirrors.

        This whole area of the Riverside East will become the greatest avian killing zone in history.

        These new solar machines, don’t produce anything (see Tony’s comment above) of value for today’s society, they destroy the environment by their massive size, and kill wildlife. The existing desert plants, that manage to survive get absolutely wiped out during constructing and obliterated through out the life of the system with poisons.

        GREEN schemes are the killers of our future. These killing monuments of the Greens actually has denatured the protein in their feathers so their flight is hampered even in the outer areas of the mirrors. These are not the lucky ones, they last for a few hours until flight takes them to their death bed.

        A sickening, useless technology called GREEN. Criminal. Why offer so many solutions for bird deterring if there is not a problem.


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    graphicconception

    I have been involved in many a blog debate over the years about Global Warming and Climate Change. I was always asked to quote peer-reviewed literature as if it was something special.

    I think the only document you need to read is The Emperor’s New Clothes by Hans Christian Anderson: http://www.andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheEmperorsNewClothes_e.html

    The whole process is described in there and the world is just starting to wake up.
    “But he hasn’t got anything on,” a little child said.

    Congratulations to Oz for the no BS approach. It is what us POMs would expect!


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    Fenbeagleblog

    The Tides out here too in Lincolnshire. Hopefully the tide will turn. Fen Beagle reporting from the war zone….

    http://fenbeagleblog.wordpress.com/2013/11/12/decc-jumper/


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    PhilJourdan

    Uh, oh! Canada’s PM better never set foot in Oz! Gilliard will have him arrested!


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    Dave

    .

    US Navy reckons they won’t need icebreakers for the Arctic after 2016.

    “The Navy researcher that leads this “new study” team that the former vice president Al Gore alludes to is Wieslaw Maslowski at the Naval Post Graduate School in Monterey, California. The team’s research was funded by the Department of Energy (DOE), the Office of Naval Research (ONR), the National Science Foundation (NSF), the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).”
    He says from his 2009 publication is: (This is what Al Gore repeated in his own words at an alarmist speech.)

    “Autumn could become near ice free between 2011 and 2016.”

    Russian Navy reckons they’ll need icebreakers for the Arctic way after 2020.

    Russia really does plan to dominate. In mid-October, the Kremlin announced that Moscow wants to spend $63 billion by 2020 on its Arctic program. Russian shipbuilders set out to build a nuclear-powered mega icebreaker that would be able to cut through Arctic ice at any time of the year. The $1.2-billion ship will be the largest Russian icebreaker yet.

    Hey Marcot and MattyB,

    Why would the Russians build a navy of ice breaking warships for 2020 when the US climate change researchers Navy researhers say the Arctic will be near ice free sometime between 2011 and 2016?

    You pair are both loony tune M&M’s.


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    pat

    14 Nov: Businessweek: AP: Elaine Kurtenbach: Leaked document adds to US-led trade deal doubts
    Australia’s trade minister, Andrew Robb, is visiting Japan, China and South Korea hoping to make progress on the U.S.-led pact and on free trade negotiations with China and South Korea…
    A letter to Obama released on the website of U.S. Rep. Rosa DeLauro, a House Democrat, expressed concern over excluding Congress from the decision-making process.
    “Given our concerns, we will oppose ‘Fast Track’ Trade Promotion Authority or any other mechanism delegating Congress’ constitutional authority over trade policy,” said the open letter, signed by 151 Democrats…
    The aid group Doctors Without Borders objected to stringent protections for patents on pharmaceuticals that would benefit drug companies, one of the chief objectives of the trade talks…
    The document “confirms that the U.S. government continues to steamroll its trading partners in the face of steadfast opposition over terms that will severely restrict access to affordable medicines for millions of people,” it said in a statement…
    http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-11-14/leaked-document-adds-to-us-led-trade-deal-doubts


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    Excellent news. The German politicians are speaking out also, here


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    Ramspace

    Margaret Wente has dared to publish a piece suggesting that economic, geographic, and political factors, not CAGW, were behind the disaster in the Philippines–it’s a good week to be Canadian!

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/dont-jump-on-the-climate-disaster-bandwagon/article15420906/


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      Brett

      Yep, Looking at this map, They have always been ground zero for category 5 cyclones.

      I keep hearing the MSM stating the sea level rise is causing this. From what I can find even the IPCC only speculate increased sst may increase precipitation and atmospheric change to intensity. But now they can’t provide any evidence of those occuring, it’s now a 0.005% increase in ocean depth? Can someone explain how the ocean being ( a bee’s bit) deeper can influence this? If that were the case, wouldn’t that make them worse every time they coincided with a full moon?
      Next it will be the missing electrons in the CO2 causing increased coriolis effect and we can spend billions on demagnetising the earth.


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    Lennox

    Bill Gates says CO2 causes temperature increase and must be reduced to zero.

    http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=A155D113455FAC882A3290536575C723


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      AndyG55

      I wonder what Bill’s carbon footprint is ?

      Equal to how many thousands (or many hundreds of thousands) of impoverished 3rd world people he wants to chemically castrate.


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      Eddie Sharpe

      Don’t you think he was talking emissions ?
      Rather than actual atmospheric content ( which at 0.04% is essentially nothing already).


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    Anthony

    Hahaha at the WMO’s you’ll all burn in hell climate prediction for Australia on late line.
    Sorry, might be old news but just seen it in the Climate Council’s FB feed and I just laugh.
    Thank you so much for opening my eyes to all this, I haven’t had this much fun since I climbed to the top of Huaynapicchu and threw my empty tinny at a passing backpacker.

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3890466.htm


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      AndyG55

      I’m sure BOM will find a way to keep the temperatures rising.

      They have done an admirable job making the past much colder than it really was, so its just a matter of keeping up with the adjustments.


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    ROM

    As is usual for my morning intellectual exercise I have just been quickly scanning my usual blog and climate news sources and thinking,
    The thinking bit is not always a good idea but I guess somebody has to do it!

    The whole of the international politics associated with the climate debacle is getting messier by the day.
    If one looks at it sometimes it seems the skeptics have good reasons to be a bit dejected by what seems to be warmist climate associated political gains amongst the international to-ing and fro-ing on climate matters with talk of agreements, funds for climate control. consensus science being quoted by the politicals and numerous other news that appears to be favourable to the CAGW and socialistic green causes.

    And yet take a closer look and nowhere is there a firm agreement on any international action being put into place. Just talk,talk and much opposing, dissenting and dissension being exposed in that talk, ta]k going on in the international political circles re climate action of any sort.

    So why.

    I equate the present warmist climate debacle to a closed and rather self centred group of politicians [ which a lot of them are ] who are arrogantly striding into a farm yard enclosure for large animals.
    Some of the bystanders there sing out to “watch your step there as it could get embarrassing” but the politicals take no notice believing they will spot any potential problems before they put their foot into it and their group intends to get across that animal farm yard to the party on the other side regardless.

    Well, just like what has happened in climate politics, those very firm looking animal dung pats ie; ‘consensus climate warming science, actually only has a hard dry crust around the very soft centre. So when the politicals step into one or more it takes only seconds,[ ie only a few minutes statement or two to commit to an irrevocable course of action ] to irrevocably step into one or more of those very soft centred animal dung pats.

    What the politicals were assured about the hardness and dryness of those pats by the pat researching experts that there would be no problems getting to the party on the other side without getting splashed turns out to be all a load of hot_____, literally!

    Meanwhile the expected big nosh up party on the other side of the yard the politicals were making for dissolves in bitter recriminations and accusations over who was expected to pay the rather large, excessive in fact, bill for the now disappearing party event.

    So now the politicals have this extremely smelly sticky climate dung mess on their big feet which they are spending a lot of time trying to scrape off and do this well out of sight of and without admitting to all those smart arse skeptics out there who right from the start warned them about venturing into the animal climate enclosure as they would very likely to step into some really nasty, sticky smelly stuff that might take a very long time to scrape off and to get rid of the very bad smells now surrounding their personages.
    Meanwhile as they try to scrape off and extract themselves from the sticky stinking climate mess they stepped right into, a great deal of shouting and accusations and blame are starting to fly on whose bloody stupid idea was it to go that damn stupid CAGW climate party across the climate shit covered animal enclosure in any case.

    And so ends my farm yard soliloquy for today.


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    Bulldust

    Interesting that Jones can get in trouble for a few exaggerated claims about climate on radio, but the alarmists remain untouched:

    http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/alan-jones-breaches-code-with-exaggerated-climate-change-broadcast-acma-20131023-2w0ui.html

    The statement about salaries was silly and easily fasifiable, but equally fasifiable are statements about “unprecedented” weather events reported frequently, albeit almost only when they are warm weather events. A little balance from ACMA? Or are they just another CAGW stooge organisation?


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    pat

    TideShifts Warsaw:

    14 Nov: Shell Climate Change Blog: David Hone – Climate Change Advisor for Shell
    What to make of COP 19?
    The flight from London to Warsaw this week gave me a chance to flick through the latest World Energy Outlook from the IEA (I couldn’t use the word “read” here as that would barely be possible on a flight to Melbourne, let alone Warsaw) and read a number of articles in the principle introductory publication to COP 19 (Climate Change – The New Economy), which amazingly enough was available in the BA Lounge at Heathrow…
    Further to these publications, UNEP released their 2013 Gap Report on Wednesday afternoon at a side event in the football stadium where the COP is being held (it doubles as a convention centre).

    The COP publication contains a series of articles from various stakeholders, all extolling the virtues of one particular technology over another as a means of delivering the needed emission reductions over the coming decades (e.g. efficient lighting!!). But on opening the publication there is a two page advertisement for a much more efficient and clean coal bed methane to liquids process under the heading “You will be amazed what we can do with coal”, followed by a two page spread from WWF titled “Help Save the Fridge”, with an expansive picture of pack ice in Spitsbergen. This rather sets the scene for the tensions that may well run right through this particular conference…
    … but despite the wealth of optimistic publications and climate-speak here in Warsaw, the 2°C pathway remains out of reach. Perhaps the two page spread in the front of the COP publication was inserted as a sobering but much needed reminder of how the energy system is actually developing. Until delegates and observers come to terms with this and plan for it rather than attempt to swim upstream against the deluge, it is hard to see real progress being made. There continues to be a lot of criticism of the fact that Poland is holding this conference while at the same time continuing to run its economy on coal, but hopefully this actually helps ground the process in the difficult reality that is the current global energy system.
    http://blogs.shell.com/climatechange/2013/11/1cop19/

    14 Nov: UPI: China to drive world’s renewable energy increase
    “The main challenge for global renewable energy today is that it is costly. If China builds a lot of renewable energy projects, it will help bring down the cost and enable it to compete with traditional sources of energy, namely coal and gas,” (IEA’s) Birol told the newspaper…
    China, the world’s biggest consumer of coal, has accounted for 82 percent of the increase in global coal consumption since 2011, the U.S. Energy Information Administration says.
    Last year, coal accounted for around 67 percent of China’s energy mix, but the dirty fossil fuel has been blamed for the country’s massive air pollution.
    As part of a plan released in September by China’s State Council, or cabinet, the government aims to cut total coal consumption to below 65 percent of its total primary energy use by 2017…
    http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Resources/2013/11/14/China-to-drive-worlds-renewable-energy-increase/UPI-72581384459941/

    Poland seeks to make “coal” a less dirty word at UN climate talks
    WARSAW, Nov 14 (Reuters) – Poland is struggling to make “coal” less of a dirty word as it hosts U.N. talks on slowing global warming that ***usually focus mostly on phasing out fossil fuels in favour of renewable energies such as solar and wind power…
    http://www.pointcarbon.com/news/reutersnews/1.2958613?&ref=searchlist


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      ROM

      pat
      November 15, 2013 at 11:17 am ·

      14 Nov: UPI: China to drive world’s renewable energy increase
      “The main challenge for global renewable energy today is that it is costly. If China builds a lot of renewable energy projects, it will help bring down the cost and enable it to compete with traditional sources of energy, namely coal and gas,” (IEA’s) Birol told the newspaper…
      China, the world’s biggest consumer of coal, has accounted for 82 percent of the increase in global coal consumption since 2011, the U.S. Energy Information Administration says.
      Last year, coal accounted for around 67 percent of China’s energy mix, but the dirty fossil fuel has been blamed for the country’s massive air pollution.
      As part of a plan released in September by China’s State Council, or cabinet, the government aims to cut total coal consumption to below 65 percent of its total primary energy use by 2017…

      Sounds terrific and right down the greens greatest dream alley. The largest Nation on earth going green renewable energy as we are so forcefully told ad nauseam by the green CAGW believers.
      So here is how they are going about switching to that green renewable energy

      From one of the more rational green publications

      China’s Great Dam Boom:
      A Major Assault on Its Rivers
      China is engaged in a push to build hydroelectric dams on a scale unprecedented in human history. While being touted for producing lower-emission electricity, these massive dam projects are wreaking havoc on river systems across China and Southeast Asia.

      About 100 dams are in various stages of construction or planning on the Yangtze and its tributaries — the Yalong, Dadu, and Min. Two dozen more will be built on the Lancang, called the Mekong in Southeast Asia, and still more on the last two of China’s free-flowing rivers — the Nu, called the Salween in Burma, and the Yarlung Tsangpo, known as the Brahmaputra in India and the Jamuna in Bangladesh. All these rivers flow off the Tibetan Plateau, a geologically unstable region that averages 4,500 meters (14,800 feet) high. As they flow down through the soft, sedimentary rock, the rivers carve steep canyons, many deeper than the Grand Canyon. The risk of earthquakes is high. Probe International, a Canadian NGO, warned in April 2012 that almost half of China’s new dams are in zones of high to very high seismic risk, and most of the remainder in zones of moderate hazard.

      &

      China’s dam projects also threaten livelihoods in other countries. Of the watersheds discussed above, only the Yellow and the Yangtze are wholly domestic. Outside of China the Lancang/Mekong, Nu/Salween, and Yarlung Zangbo/Brahmaputra flow through several countries of Southeast Asia, India, and Bangladesh. Since 1997 China’s government has declined ‘These projects will be a source of permanent grief and regret for future generations,’ says a Chinese geologist. to sign the United Nations water-sharing convention that would govern its major transnational rivers, yet it continues to build dams without consulting its downstream neighbors.

      On the Mekong, China’s dams are affecting agriculture and fisheries. In Laos and Thailand, crops are regularly washed away before harvest time as upstream dams release their water. Nutrient-rich silt no longer reaches the Mekong delta, which is reducing fish stocks. In Burma and Thailand, environmental groups have spoken out about the threats to wildlife and populations from dams now planned for China’s Nu/Salween. A colossal 38,000-megawatt project has been proposed at Motuo on the Yarlung Tsangpo in Tibet. The project would pose a serious threat not only to the Tibetan Plateau but to India and Bangladesh, where the Yarlung becomes the Brahmaputra and Jamuna rivers.

      China’s unprecedented construction of dams makes a mockery of the larger vision expressed in its current Five Year Plan to develop clean energy, reduce pollution, and protect the environment. A more accurate vision may be that of the Sichuan geologist Fan Xiao in his 2011 letter opposing the Xiaonanhai Dam.

      “These major projects will be synonymous with the worst excesses of this era, and the mark they will leave in history is going to be very difficult to erase.” Fan goes on to warn that the great dams will become “a source of permanent grief and regret for future generations yet unborn.”


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    pat

    on Bloomberg’s Sustainability page, this headline ends with “as Green Projects sag”, while the url ends in “un-seeks-carbon-overhaul-to-avert-clean-energy-investment-slump.html”! panic is setting in:

    14 Nov: Bloomberg: Alessandro Vitelli: UN Seeks Carbon Market Revamp as Green-Project Backers Bolt
    PHOTO CAPTION: Prices for credits generated from the emission-reduction program have plunged as much as 99 percent since 2008 as the global economic slowdown cut demand…
    Investment in UN Clean Development Mechanism projects registered this year slumped to $15 billion in the 10 months through October from $198 billion in all of 2012, the first drop since 2005 when the UN started publishing the estimates. Failure to reform the CDM may hamper market-based efforts to curb emissions, according to the Project Developers’ Forum, a lobby group based in London…
    Envoys from 195 nations, industry groups and investors are debating improvements to the CDM, a key pillar in the UN-endorsed goal of keeping global temperatures from rising more than 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) from pre-industrial times. Prices for credits generated from the emission-reduction program have plunged as much as 99 percent since 2008 as the global economic slowdown cut demand…
    (LOL) “Losing the CDM is bad for the climate because we will lose expertise and experience” in areas including measurement, reporting and verification of greenhouse-gas reduction, said Gareth Phillips, chairman of the Project Developers’ Forum, which represents 53 investors in offset projects including Gazprom Marketing & Trading Ltd. and Mitsubishi Corp…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-14/un-seeks-carbon-overhaul-to-avert-clean-energy-investment-slump.html

    ***which governments want”, Szabo?

    13 Nov: Reuters: Michael Szabo: Global carbon market ‘toolbox’ in sight at U.N. climate talks
    Governments ***want to launch a platform at United Nations climate talks to help set common standards and accounting rules and tie together national and regional emissions trading schemes, but developing countries and green groups warned that talk of a global carbon market is premature…
    Most developed countries see carbon markets as crucial under any new agreement because they seek out the cheapest emissions reductions, making climate change targets more achievable…
    As those schemes (THAT CURRENTLY EXIST) are disconnected from each other, governments have proposed launching a framework to unite them under a single voluntary platform to share ideas, with a view to eventually launching a global market to battle climate change.
    “Markets are vital … and it’s not premature (to be discussing them). It’s more than timely to be thinking now, in advance of 2015, about how to manage their intersection,” said New Zealand’s climate change ambassador Jo Tyndall, adding there was a clear link between carbon markets and channeling climate finance to poor countries…
    But poor nations argue that more pressing issues need to be ironed out, for example the overarching dispute between rich and poor countries over how to share efforts to cut emissions, before more market-based mechanisms are developed or the groundwork for a global trading scheme is laid.
    “A market is important but it’s premature to deliver it now … with so many other issues that have to be resolved before 2015,” said Khalid Abuleif, an advisor to Saudi Arabia’s ministry of petroleum and mineral resources and the country’s lead negotiator at the U.N. talks.
    “Let’s not bring markets in to influence that process.”…
    “We need to know the nature of those commitments before we can design a credible market. We cannot afford to have failure,” Abuleif said, citing existing U.N.-backed carbon trading mechanisms such as the Clean Development Mechanism (CDM).
    The CDM has since 2005 helped channel more than $315 billion to poor nations to help them cut their CO2 emissions or adapt to the effects of climate change.
    But the failure of nations to craft a new global pact has caused demand for the CO2 offsets generated under the U.N.’s carbon markets to dry up, sending prices crashing and nearly bankrupting many of the companies that invested in the schemes…
    Green groups including the Third World Network have called the idea a “recipe for disaster”, saying governments are pushing forward with building new markets before studying and learning from the failings of existing ones.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/13/us-climate-talks-carbon-market-idUSBRE9AC0R920131113


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      Brett

      YVO DE BOER: Well, one message that it sends is that the current government, the Abbott Government, is not in favour of the toolbox that the previous government had created in order to address climate change.

      Toolbox – Starts with T and ends with X.


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    Raven

    Yet climate alarmism is still being taught at year 9 level in Victorian public schools .( probably in all years )
    My son explained it was easier to do the study give them the answers they want and be done with it , dissent would only bring penalties and writing the truth would mean being failed . How long until our government stops this attempt at brainwashing our young ?
    It doesn’t stop there either , they are supplied the age newspaper to read , nothing like balance …..puke .


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      Mattb

      Are you sure he doesn’t think it’s easier just to tell you that it’s easier just to give them the answers they want to hear. Most kids learn how to keep dad calm by the time they are in year 9.


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      Carbon500

      Raven: the rubbish is being touted in schools here in the UK as well.
      About two years ago, a young relative (then aged about 9) was asked to devise a ‘low carbon breakfast’ as part of his homework.
      Rest assured that a letter about it went to the school straightaway, and the headmistress given a lesson in basic biochemistry.


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      Raven

      Most smart kids see through the climate scam better then a lot of adults , they have a way of seeing through the lies and missimformation being spewed out .
      They ask hard questions and seek the truth , he recently discovered quadrant and forwarded the article below ( he is an advanced student in a high achievers program ) and I must admitt I am proud he doesn’t just take my word for it . These young people are the ones who are going to have to finish cleaning up the mess made by the UN parasites and their communist bedfellows.

      http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2013/11/ipccs-foul-weather-friends/

      Ps …by the way mattb I’ve seen some of the rubbish you spew out here , this kid would destroy you in a debate on climate any where any time .why don’t you explain to him why a typhoon in Asia is Tony abbots fault ( snip) ( snip) (snip)


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      Brian H

      You can be sure the backpack of suppressed scepticism and objections will get vigorously decanted as soon as the penalties for non-conformity are escaped. As for those who imposed that conformity: I pity the poor fools.


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    Dave

    Australia WINS three out of four.

    Only Poland has come close with one win.

    “The Fossil of the Day” Award ceremony on the fourth day collecting our third victory.

    The video shows what this bunch do in Warsaw, no wonder Tony Abbott stopped all payments. I really think Canada should have won one, as they supported us through this great occasion.

    And it pleases me greatly to see Christiana Figueres, head of the UN’s climate change body, the UNFCCC so unhappy.

    The video shows the childish like greed of the spoilt brats of the GREEN Slime representing their countries here. It seems they haven’t left school kindergarten. This is where Tim Flannery and Will Steffen are heroes.

    No wonder this CAGW gravy train is going down the drain with everyday people.


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      James

      It’s deeper than that, Dave. The Church of Climatology doesn’t take dissent very well. Soon they’ll be recruiting high profile people, like actors and such, to prove their credibility, then they will actively try to shut down all debate adverse to the doctrines of Climatology – oh wait, they’ve already done that. Have they taken to stalking out realist advocates with smear and innuendo – done that too huh. There’s this little place called Jonestown…


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      Dave

      Today was our fourth “Fossil of the Day” Award at Warsaw with Poland and Japan with one each.

      We are definitely getting up the noses of these Greedy Gang Greens.

      Thanks Australia, Canada and Japan.
      Go and get GAIA’ed Christiana Figueres. :)


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    Scott Mc

    As a Canadian I follow the Govt very closely, they have to tread a fine line, the fact they came out and praised Australia will really upset many people here, although not as much as withdrawing from Kyoto. Most politicians are still talking the believer stance, and the former head of the Lib Govt actually names his dog Kyoto.
    In canada, 2 provinces, BC and Quebec have carbon taxes on their gas, as well both provinces have loose associations with believer states, to set up carbon trading schemes, still in its infancy


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    Eddie Sharpe

    Japan comes out with plans to face their chosen post- nuclear reality on energy. Burn baby burn . Emissions targets slashed.


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    robins111

    Proud to be a Canadian today… Hopefully we can get the effing T-Rex award this year at the climate scam conference..


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    Robert of Ottawa

    Canada and Australia world leaders! – Who’d a thought it?!

    Actually, Canada has been flying under the radar for several years. Welcome on board, Australia!


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    [...] Tide shifts: Canada “comes out” and applauds Australian PM for repeal bill of carbon tax –… Apparently this is the first time Canada has “come out” and admitted it was not buying the scare. Ooh. For those who deal with group decisions, and critical masses, this will hurt. Open praise for skeptical nations breaches a big taboo. Suddenly, being a sensible leader is respectable. Canada’s statement. Click to enlarge. [...]


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    Cambo

    Good on you Australia. Let’s all get back to being competitive and positive about the future.


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    Eve

    Bruce, your federal government did not impose a carbon tax on you, your provincial government did, and you re-elected them? Our Ontario Liberal government is driving the cost of electricity so high that people in Ontario will start dying of cold. Just like people in BC, the UK and the EU. Unsure why provincial governments want to kill their citizens. They have no one else to tax.


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    [...] Tide shifts: Canada “comes out” and applauds Australian PM for repeal bill of carbon tax (joannenova.com.au) [...]


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