JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Chance to see Bob Carter, Mr David Leyonhjelm in Perth – Saturday

The PGA (Pastoralists and Graziers) convention is on Saturday morning in Perth. It’s a great event, has a few movers and shakers going, and I very much enjoyed the last one I went too. If you want to go, email the PGA or phone them today. The normal fee for non-members would be $250, but I put in a plea for readers who might be retired, or just coming “out of interest”, and Jenni Stawell kindly offered to reduce the price — mention you read about the offer here.

Official Opening of the 2013 PGA Convention
Official Opening
The Hon Ken Baston MLA
Minister for Agriculture & Food
Keynote Addresses:
Mr David Leyonhjelm
Liberal Democrat, newly elected Senator from July 2014
Professor Bob Carter
Tax and Air—Facts and Fallacies about Climate Change
at
The Botanicals, Crown Perth,
Great Eastern Highway Burswood WA
on
Saturday, 2 November at 8.30 am
Registration desk opens at 8.00am
Guests are invited to join members & delegates
for morning tea at 10.30am

RSVP : by Friday 25th October 2013
Ph: 08 9479 4599 |   Fax: 08 9277 7311  | Email: pga@pgaofwa.org.au
First Floor, Pastoral House, 277-279 Great Eastern Highway, BELMONT 6104

PGA site   Events   PGA Agenda

PGA on facebook

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Chance to see Bob Carter, Mr David Leyonhjelm in Perth - Saturday, 8.1 out of 10 based on 28 ratings

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36 comments to Chance to see Bob Carter, Mr David Leyonhjelm in Perth – Saturday

  • #
    Len

    PGA mostly are skeptical in their outlook whilst WAFF leaders are mainly into the Kool Aid of man made global warming.

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  • #
    Kevin Lohse

    I saw Bob in London a couple of weeks ago. Definitely not to be missed.

    84

    • #
      Justin Jefferson

      David Leyonhjelm is also a powerful speaker for liberty and definitely not to be missed for anyone who can make it.

      30

  • #
    helen brady

    Please Jo could you comment on last night’s program on acidification and coral. SBS

    10

    • #
    • #
      Ian hilliar

      Helen, rain is actually acidic, rather than at neutral ph. That fact should scare the pants off those at our SBS. I have actually bgiven up on watching any australian programs onSBS and ABC

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    • #
      crakar24

      Helen,

      I pinched this from Bolt

      Reader Viperous has had enough of the alarmism:

      I could only stomach a few minutes of Acid Ocean on SBS.

      It is ridiculous to say scientists use the term ‘more acidic’ when describing a drop in pH rather than use ‘less basic’. A scientist would say ‘less basic’ if the pH drops to a level still above pH 7. There is no written rule as to which term you should use but it is obvious that if you use ‘more acidic’ in any other context a scientist would feel mislead if the pH remained above 7. ‘The oceans are becoming less basic’ is not going to scare the kiddies and ‘Acid Ocean’ is definitely telling porkies.

      The pH of the surface waters of the oceans range from 7.9 to 8.3 away from the coastline. This report had, as its first story, an oyster farm. They had problems when the water that it pumped from the sea had six times more acid than normal. They did not actually mention the pH so I assume that it must have been 7.2-7.3. The water was being pumped from a bay that would have pH fluctuations due to rain water run off. This can drop the pH down to 6 due to nitric and nitrous acid in the rain water (from lightning) and organic material in rivers. It can also go up to pH 9 if the run off comes from basic soils. More carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is not going to drop the pH down to below 7.9 and certainly wasn’t responsible for the problems at the oyster farm, for oysters would have to put up with bigger changes in pH in its natural habitat.

      Carbonic acid has a pKa of 6.4. It is acidic but barely more than water. Keeping it simple, a concentrated solution of carbonic acid (pure water in an atmosphere of pure carbon dioxide) has less than a fraction of 1 millionth the acidity of battery acid.

      72

  • #
    pat

    Investors, U.N. panel call on Warsaw climate talks to support CDM
    LONDON, Oct 30 (Reuters Point Carbon) – Investors and the panel overseeing the U.N.’s carbon market for developing countries have called on delegates at next month’s climate meeting in Warsaw to rescue the ailing scheme, which the U.N. estimates has provided $315 billion in funding to low-carbon projects to date…
    http://www.pointcarbon.com/news/1.2714624

    read all the following…Australia gets a mention:

    9 Oct: Trust.org: Reuters: Megan Rowling: Cash-strapped Adaptation Fund puts climate projects on hold
    A major U.N. fund that helps developing countries adapt to the negative effects of climate change faces a bleak financial future because of rock-bottom prices on the carbon market, its main source of income.
    Marcia Levaggi, manager of the Adaptation Fund Board secretariat, told Thomson Reuters Foundation the fund could no longer provide grants for projects managed by intergovernmental agencies, such as the U.N. Development Programme, without additional contributions. Seven projects recommended by the board in countries including Mali, Cuba, Myanmar and Uzbekistan – amounting to $48.7 million – are on hold.
    The Adaptation Fund is meant to be financed mostly from a 2 percent levy on the value of certified emission reduction (CER) credits issued under the U.N. Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) each year…
    But due to oversupply and uncertainty about future global caps on emissions, prices for the credits have plunged to around 60 euro cents ($0.82) per tonne of carbon dioxide, slashing the Adaptation Fund’s income.
    “It’s not the 12 euros per tonne we used to have in 2011 – now it’s really bad, and we cannot count on a recovery of the carbon markets in the near future,” Levaggi said from Washington. “The CDM doesn’t seem to be on a good track to continue, at least in the way it was.”
    As of the end of August, the Adaptation Fund had raised $188 million from the sale of CERs and $151 million from donors. But the flow of money from the carbon market has slowed to a trickle, and is estimated to bring in only a further $145-150 million up to 2020…
    The Adaptation Fund does still have money left in its depleting coffers, but this will only be available for climate change projects that are developed and led by national and regional agencies, such as government ministries and research institutes…
    Since March 2012, the fund has been considering innovative mechanisms to mobilise additional public and private money for adaptation, ranging from bonds to certificates issued to companies wanting to demonstrate their environmental credentials. But nothing has been settled on yet, and a call for online donations from individuals and businesses at last year’s U.N. climate talks raised only around $1,000…
    http://www.trust.org/item/20131009083550-k2cr5/

    10

  • #
    Col Andrews

    Jo it is a shame they could not get Doug Keenan to come and talk!

    What Doug Keenan has to say about AR5 and statistics –
    “Temperatures on Earth ’ s surface — i.e. where people live — are widely believed to provide evidence for global warming. Demonstrating that those temperatures actually provide evidence, though, requires doing statistical analysis. All such statistical analyses of the temperatures that have be en done so far are fatally flawed. Astoundingly , those flaws are effectively acknowledged in the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report (AR5) . The flaws imply that there is no demonstrated observational evidence that global temperatures have significantly increased (i.e. increased more than would be expected from natural climatic variation alone). Despite this, one of the main conclusions of AR5 is that global temperatures have increased very significantly. That conclusion is based on analysis that AR5 itself acknowledges is fatally flawed. The correct conclusion is that there is no demonstrated observational evidence for global warming.”
    From “Statistical Analyses of Surface Temperatures in the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report” by Douglas J. Keenan.
    HERE http://www.informath.org/AR5stat.pdf
    picked up by WUWT http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/10/30/statistical-analyses-of-surface-temperatures-in-the-ipcc-fifth-assessment-report/
    and Bishop Hill http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2013/10/30/keenan-does-ar5.html

    50

    • #
      John Brookes

      Gee, all the statistical analysis is fatally flawed! And its on WUWT and Bishop Hill. It somehow made it through their tough review process.

      Hmmm. That would make it blog science. Of course, I am reassured that the author has a middle initial. That adds a certain gravitas much more easily than, like, actually getting serious people in serious journals to take one’s fruitcake ideas seriously.

      07

      • #
        Backslider

        Gee, all the statistical analysis is fatally flawed!

        Well then JB – out with the rebuttal.

        actually getting serious people in serious journals to take one’s fruitcake ideas seriously.

        If you care to look, he is published in peer reviewed journals. Petty ad hom, which is all you have.

        40

      • #
        Col Andrews

        Dear johny,

        Do us all a favour – have a wee better look at Mr Doug Keenans history you might be surprised – very surprised. Note in articular his efforts with Lord Donahue, the British House of Lords and showing the British MET the statistical model they use is NOT the best fit and global temperature rise is NOT STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT!!!

        30

      • #
        AndyG55

        Poor little JB, still trying to figure out how to count to 10 !

        Hint JB, change the pointing finger after counting to five.

        10

  • #
    crakar24

    Here is another miracle….no i meant example of the omni potent force of CO2 “In a warming world” RgTM

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-21/frost-wipes-out-wine-grape-crops-at-murrumbateman/5034930

    In my capacity as a wine expert……….drinker i would like to offer a slight correction, there is no such thing as a Shiraz Viognier (vi-on-ya) fruit they are two fruits blended together (one red one white) but i do agree with his assessment of how good it tastes the rest looks pretty good.

    11

  • #
    crakar24

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Police poised to arrest CO2 in connection with Lobster eggs heist, the lawyer representing CO2 has stated his client is innocent of all charges, the evidence against my client is circumstantial at best and questions his clients ability to get a fair trial.

    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bushtelegraph/abrolhos-exhibition/5040674

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  • #
    Mattb

    it will be interesting to see what the minister has to say about being confronted with “facts” that are in contradiction to Government policy on the matter.

    24

    • #
      AndyG55

      By continually fronting minister with the facts, one hopes that policy will eventually change.

      And the RET, and all remnants of CO2 based climate change trash will be swept into the sewer, where they belong.

      101

    • #
      John Brookes

      Apparently the WA Libs (bless their cotton socks!) want a royal commission into the great climate scam. It would be great if it happened – the climate “skeptics” getting up there, putting forth their theories of corrupt scientists, agenda 54 (or whatever it is), one world government. A laugh a minute.

      No “skeptical” government (like Tony’s mob) will risk the embarrassment of having a royal commission on this.

      23

      • #
        John B

        You’re comments are coming across as those of a bad loser John Brookes. All ad hom attacks and not one bit of science involved. By all means attack the arguments being put forward but stick to data to make your case.

        51

      • #
        Backslider

        So JB, do you have any scientific evidence whatsoever that CO2 warms the planet in any way worth worrying about?……No, I thought not.

        Is there any evidence that unscrupulous merchants are making billions from the global warming scare? Is there perhaps something far more alarming here to be worried about? Does the UN really have it’s own agendas. Do the Greens have other agendas also?

        I know JB… its very comfy being on “the side that’s right”…. isn’t it?

        31

  • #
    blackadderthe4th

    ‘Chance to see Bob Carter’, I think I’ll give it a miss this time!

    The cooling Earth according to Bob Carter.

    ‘Bob Carter, so what’s his source. In April 2006 Carter published this claim in Britain’s Sunday Telegraph and it‘s being going around the internet ever since, it was even picked up on Fox news…[since 1998 average temps across the globe have not increase at all and have dropped] I’m sure…they went to a real climate scientist to get the reaction of an expert to Carter’s claim…Carter claims his source is the CRU…but the CRU doesn’t say that the earth is cooling at all, quite the opposite. It says it’s data …shows continued warming…told the AP the last 10 years that’s 1998-2008 are the warmest 10 year period of the modern record…NASA Goddard…says the year 2007 tied for second warmest…so how come the worlds three temperature monitoring organizations and an independent study by experts say the world is warming when Carter says it’s cooling! That is actually quite easy to answer…he simply put a ruler from the highest peak he could find, 1998 and draw a line down to lower peak 2005…but if things were that simple we could draw a line and show the world warming up or from here to here and have it cool down again, obviously this isn’t how it’s done…there is a reason for all these peaks and troughs, the Earth is subject to short term fluctuations in temperature and two of the most important ones are the eleven year solar cycle and what’s called the El Nino southern oscillation.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43CGvmOSD0M

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    • #

      Thanks BA, you demonstrate how dishonest (? I presume it’s potholer) is, and how gullible you are to be fooled by it. I found Carters actual quote which the anonymous-smooth-but-deceitful-voice theoretically spent so much effort “debunking” – He claims Carter said the “world was cooling” but what Carter said was nothing of the sort:

      For many years now, human-caused climate change has been viewed as a large and urgent problem. In truth, however, the biggest part of the problem is neither environmental nor scientific, but a self-created political fiasco. Consider the simple fact, drawn from the official temperature records of the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, that for the years 1998-2005 global average temperature did not increase (there was actually a slight decrease, though not at a rate that differs significantly from zero).

      So Carter was right, and Potho is pretending Carter made a claim he never made. No wonder you poor sods are so confused. If you are fed a steady diet of cherry-picked strawmen arguments I can see why you have no real idea how climate science works.

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      • #
        blackadderthe4th

        ‘There IS a problem with global warming… it stopped in 1998’

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3624242/There-IS-a-problem-with-global-warming…-it-stopped-in-1998.html

        ‘ the University of East Anglia, that for the years 1998-2005 global average temperature did not increase’

        which is Potholers argument, records are just not cherry picked like that! Not only is the time period too small, but there are other thing to consider in the wider scheme of things! No, Carter seems to be another one of those climate zombies that keeps get woken up from time to time. No doubt when the smell of money appears!

        AGU, Richard Alley and climate zombies!

        ‘This particular climate zombie is back in force again…I just showed you warming is continuing, the global warming has stopped, has a new burst of noise…It’s just flabbergasting, what I just showed you the science, the system is warming…the atmosphere is warming…the Goddard Institute for Space…is it getting warmer yes, the confidence is high…but notice how you can do this…I am born in 1957, at the start of a cooling trend, I married in 1980 start of a cooling trend…we moved to Penn state in 1988 at the start of a cooling trend…1997 at the start of a cooling trend…they named a glacier after me in 2002 at the start of a cooling trend…our daughter became a Penn stater…2005 at the start of a cooling trend! So my whole life [as he reveals a graph that shows an ever increasing temperature]…now recognise this, as long as the Earth is variable you can do this forever…ALL YOU DO IF THERE IS RAPID WARMING SHUT UP and then you can go back and claim GW has stopped…until ad infinitum…we are hearing this at the highest levels…this is a climate zombie…somebody is keep waking these up! R Alley

        As can be seen here!

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5sxBSa6Tck

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        • #

          Poor you BA. Everyone can see you have no defense for potholer “cherry picking” Bob Carters arguments to take a line out of context which was and is a bland conservative statement of the situation at the time. You didn’t link to the original carter quote because it shows how deceitful your criticisms are. I almost wonder if you are a bot, you appear unable to think for yourself at all, just simply cut and pasting arguments from one side that don’t even answer the question you raised.

          Your allegations that Carter does it for the money when all the evidence (like the bizarre spiteful behaviour of James Cook Uni) tells us Carter has given up a lot financially in order to be a true scientist are delusional.

          Find an ARC grant awarded to him after he spoke out as a skeptic? No? How odd?

          This is hate-boy material where you find imaginary reasons to hate someone who tells you the truth.

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          • #
            blackadderthe4th

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI ‘Is co2 the cause…..’ featuring Bob Carter.

            ‘if we recall through these beautiful paintings’ @ 6:44, well that is pure hear say! Because if we examine paintings done in the ‘wild west’ of America in the 19thC or Egypt, Rome, in fact anywhere at certain times, what is depicted has little resemblance to the actual reality, because the artists have exercised ’artistic license’. Just as portrait artist did, by adjusting flaws or features! Such as adding the ’hump’ to Richard III or leaving out Elizabeth I’s pock marked face, in fact Oliver Cromwell had to insist in a portrait, ‘warts an all’. So paintings have to be considered dubious evidence at best!

            ‘and the solar physicist are predicting right now there is a good chance we are heading into another LIA in 20, 30 years‘ @7:09, but that’s not true, whoops sorry its Potholer again! And when anybody goes on about the up coming LIA they have lost creditability, as far as I am concerned. Because if I may add the impact of the ‘real’ LIA and MWP have been grossly inflated in my opinion!

            A new LIA (Little Ice Age) is forecast!

            ‘who says so? Well scientists do, I have the DAILY FAIL telling us we will have a mini ice age within ten years because of a drop in sunspot…in the very second line the DAILY FAIL tells us this comes from some scientists……..’

            Watch at:-

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaNs2uHou0U

            ‘Carter does it for the money’ yip, that was a bit OTT, but referring to the costs of the convention it seemed a bit too much like a jolly a politician would have to check out educational advances, but go to Bermuda, instead of Glasgow for the convention!

            PS

            ‘This is hate-boy material’, why would I? You are assuming something that is not there to assume!

            04

            • #

              Congrats BA. You are trying to discuss evidence (sort of in a cherry-pick-the-weak-bits ignore-the-strong-bits kind of way). You think paintings are unreliable. OK (But Carters argument doesn’t rest on paintings). And you The-God-like-BA know that there is no cold spell coming and your opinion is worth something when the prof’s is not. Good for you.

              But I can’t be bothered watch the youtubes, so your comment is barely coherent.

              Evidently you still think it was OK for potholer to attack something Carter didn’t say and hide that from his viewers. And you admit that your baseless ad hom on Carter was a “bit OTT” (over the top) but not that it was an ill-willed nasty piece of irrational namecalling that is the complete opposite to reality?

              30

              • #
                blackadderthe4th

                ‘know that there is no cold spell coming’ because there is no evidence in the literature that one is due, if you had watched the link!

                ‘when the prof’s is not’, well has he had a peer reviewed paper published on the subject?

                ‘But I can’t be bothered watch the youtubes’ well that’s hardly an inquisitive scientific mind, which your qualifications suggest, seen as they are usually full of scientific facts! And if you were to refer to Potholer’s originals, the link should be there, you will see they are generally backed up with references to the scientific data.

                ‘ill-willed nasty piece of irrational namecalling’, sensitive these folk from Oz are they not! What ever happened to The Crocodile Dundee’s?

                03

              • #

                BA – if you knew what the evidence was for your belief you could just write it down couldn’t you? But you can’t, so you expect us to watch youtubes which you don’t describe, just transcribe.

                There is evidence that suggests a cool phase is coming (see eg Liu et al 2011 and others). That doesn’t mean it will be, but careful — your activist pants are showing — you think a youtube can prove a negative?

                And who is sensitive? I just want you to argue with reason instead of ad homs.

                20

              • #
                blackadderthe4th

                ‘There is evidence that suggests a cool phase is coming (see eg Liu et al 2011 and others)’ but if you had watched the link you would have seen there is no evidence of a new LIA! Although there is all sorts of evidence about the solar output! Which in the overall scheme of things, doesn’t mount to a hill of beans,

                03

              • #
                Backslider

                but if you had watched the link you would have seen

                Which part of:

                if you knew what the evidence was for your belief you could just write it down couldn’t you?

                and:

                I just want you to argue with reason

                do you not comprehend?

                20

              • #
                Brian G Valentine

                do you not comprehend?

                Comprehend WHAT, you fool?

                20

              • #
                Brian G Valentine

                Sorry remark was directed at BA

                10

            • #
              Brian G Valentine@verizon.net

              In fact Bob Carter earns very little outside of his pension for consulting.

              Per year Carter probably earns maybe a tenth of what Bill McKibben “earns” (i.e., moderated) – which is upwards of US $350,000 per year plus the travel he gets for free if people invited him.

              (Who paid for McKibben’s latest trip to a vaguely welcoming Australia? You, Australia, probably did.)

              [....I'm assuming you have some inside knowledge about Carter and McKibben's earnings? Otherwise references would help support this - Mod]

              10

              • #
                Brian G Valentine

                Bob Carter has modest earnings from Heartland in the USA which were made public unfortunately.

                That is very little. I am not aware of any other permanent consultancy he has.

                McKibben’s earnings were also made public elsewhere, I don’t remember the source right now, but the statement is true and should not be difficult to track down.

                McKibben’s earnings pale in comparison with Jim Hansen’s “fees” which he “earned” whilst still a Federal Employee of the US Government, and the point is, very modest support from organisations that support Professor Carter are wildly trumpeted as his “pay to be a contrarian,” whereas the earnings of the outrageous alarmists are probably adequate to keep them as alarming as they can be.

                (PS – I’ve never taken a cent for anything I have written or said, and have paid for my own travel to speak anywhere.)

                20

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    • #
      AndyG55

      Just like the carbon catastrophists do, hey.

      First drop a 10 ton block of ice on the 1940ish peak and everything before 1979, then tell everyone that they have to start from the coldest point after that, around 1970.

      If they had not tampered with the data, there would be very little warming for the last 80 or so years, a fact born about by the fact that many temperature records (even in the very short record we have) still date from the late 1930′s to early 1940′s

      And they dare not accept any data from the mid 1800′s !!

      10