JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Both parties trying to be Not-Green in Australian election, Coalition looking better at it.

Stick with us overseas readers. The spectacle goes on…

How times have changed

Back in 2007 both major parties wooed the Green vote. Now Green is so on the nose that Abbott not only declared that he was putting them last on preference swaps*, but felt it was worth egging the Labor party to join him. The ALP did not scoff. Abbott is marking the Greens as worse for the nation than the Labor Party. In response the Labor Party put out a definite “maybe-sorta-kindof”. Rudd ruled out “deals” to form government (though it’s not clear what that means exactly), but he naturally wants to use preference swaps and won’t be bragging about it.

Both major parties are competing to look tough on “irregular maritime migrants”. Though both still pay lip service to the climate-scare. It’s a shame the Liberals are still too afraid of the name-calling bullies to stand up and ask for evidence, or to promise to set up an independent science agency to audit the IPCC claims on behalf of Australian taxpayers.

Where did that bounce go?

The honeymoon is over for Rudd.

Sportsbet have the Conservatives at $1.11. Labor at $6.50. The Labor Party suffered ignominious polling news that Peter Beattie (star pick, former-Premier, parachuted in last week) is not-too popular and unlikely to win the seat (Ouch. 40%). The Hollow Men magic is failing.

Meanwhile Rudd announced a plan to reduce company tax in the Northern Territory. As far as most people could tell, he decided it on Thursday, and waited a whole day to announce it. I think Abbott launched a similar idea months ago, and at the time it was mocked.  Simon Crean (Labor MP) called it: “Tony Abbott’s grab bag of wacky ideas.” What was yesterday’s dumb idea is today’s grand plan. Too bad about intelligent repartee. Most of the Australian policy debate is analyzed with scorn or derision.

The tally for Labor waste stands at $250 billion according to Henry Ergas and Judith Sloan.

Remember Rob Oakshott and Tony Windsor?

The two infamous independent M.P.s wanted a stable big-spending-soft-government and a carbon tax and thanks to them, we got it. The big lie was that their electorates wanted this too.

Latest New England Poll suggests a 66% vote coming for the conservative candidate. In Lyne, it’s 59%.

Shucks but I’ll miss Rob Oakshott. His words of wisdom from the Hansard record of Parliament May 2010:

“I take this opportunity to raise the issue of the smoking guns that I have seen over the last six months. I smelt a rat in the shift that I saw and what looked to be—to their credit—a very well organised and very well-funded campaign from the likes of JoNova and Viv Forbes.”

Thank you Rob.

(My response to him in 2010)

I’m bowled over by the compliment. Is he really giving me and Viv the joint credit for the sweeping poll changes? (As if). I’ll just ask my PR department (me) to arrange with my cartoonist (me too) to throw together a parody of parliament, which the web-editor (me) can code into a page. All of us are delighted to be described as well organized. (It’s true, we communicate like we are all in one head.) **

We’re a bit confused about the “well funded” term though, since we write pro bono, and are essentially a charity operator…

——————————————–
*We have preferential voting, meaning we number the politicians sequentially from one to n according to to how much we dislike them. Bigger numbers are worse. Like golf, the ones who score the lowest number wins. Unlike golf, where the losers throw away their cards, in Australian politics the losers pass their cards (or votes) to the people with better scores. This analogy falls into a bunker trap about here. Preference swaps means politicians write up lists of how they hope their fans will number their voting card. In quite a few seats these second or third choices of voters will end up winning. May the least disliked pollie win.

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Rating: 8.5/10 (77 votes cast)
Both parties trying to be Not-Green in Australian election, Coalition looking better at it., 8.5 out of 10 based on 77 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/me2k2ko

146 comments to Both parties trying to be Not-Green in Australian election, Coalition looking better at it.

  • #
    MemoryVault

    .
    VOTE LABOR
    Waste billions very quickly.
    Get SFA meaningful for the nation in return.

    .
    VOTE COALITION
    Waste billions a little more slowly.
    Get SFA meaningful for the nation in return.

    .
    Decisions . . . . decisions . . .


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      Winston

      I have a great deal of respect for your intellect and your perspective on most things, MV but I can’t agree here.

      The facts are these:
      1. The current Labor government is the most profligate, corrupt and incompetent in our short political history. It is an imperative to vote such incompetence out in favour of the next most viable alternative or you cede the nation to banana republic status.
      2. The previous Howard government, while far from perfect and having policies I don’t agree with, demonstrated fiscal competence light years ahead of their competitors in Labor, including the importance of not making it impossible to run a small business with any confidence.
      3. Abbott has a personal integrity and morality that few politicians in this country have ever had, the fact that he must play the political game means he is not stupid enough to ignore reality of mainstream media driven 21st century politics.
      4. The message to a Green and Labor alliance government, in the form of a comprehensive landslide in favour of the Libs is the only chance we have to send the Greens the way of One Nation and the Democrats, and for Labor to totally reinvent themselves by distancing from entrenched union powerbrokers into a more representative political party that can be effective opposition needed in a vigorous albeit in name only democracy.

      The choice could not be starker, between failure and success, between incompetence and competence, between narcissism and integrity. And as a bonus, outside of Jensen, he’s the closest to a climate skeptic we could ever hope to get.


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        MemoryVault

        Winston,

        Apart from one minor point, there’s nothing you have written that I would have any disagreement with.

        My point was that neither party appears to have the will, nor the ability, nor the courage, nor the fortitude, to stand up and be honest about where this country is at the moment, and where we are going to be very soon now, if we don’t make a severe U-turn.

        The reality is, we are now up shit creek without a paddle, and every day that goes by without addressing that fact brings us closer to the looming waterfall over the cliff just up ahead. Even using Treasury’s fantasyland figures, we have a multi-billion dollar a year structural hole in our budget. Yet we have both sides of politics simply pretending it is not so. Labor are planning to spend $391 billion this year, while the LNP are planning to spend $390 billion. Receipts, on the other hand, will be lucky to make $350 billion.

        .
        Up here in QLD Campbell Newman led the LNP to one of the biggest electoral victories ever in OZ. He did it by telling us what already knew – that we were up shit creek without a paddle, and that there was going to be a lot of pain involved in putting things right. He ran with a “first 100 days” plan – a list of what they would do in the first 100 days to start addressing things. He has gone from strength to strength ever since.

        Contrast that to Abbott’s “plan” to spend the next three years doing pretty-well nothing, while we have a “tax audit” to figure what we might do after the election after next. By that time we will be well and truly over the cliff, and heading for the rocks at the bottom.

        And why all this pussy-footing around? That brings us back to the one thing you wrote with which I disagree, which is contained in your Point 3:

        . . . he is not stupid enough to ignore reality of mainstream media driven 21st century politics

        Only the MSM and the pollies themselves actually believe that the MSM have any real influence on OZ politics anymore. It is the biggest furphy of all. For three year people have been lecturing me here that “Abbott cant’ do this”, or “Abbott can’t say that” because of how the MSM might react.

        Well here is a newsflash for you all. It doesn’t matter WHAT Abbott says or does, the MSM will can him for it anyway. And you know what? It doesn’t matter – Australians make their own judgement. Two enormous, hilarious examples just this week:

        First the “Rudd is the “suppository of all wisdom” line. I thought it was a deliberate, hilarious and clever play on words, as do most people I know. The media spent the week all over it like a rash, and Australians laughed their heads off while Labor and KRudd sank further in the poles.

        Next came the “she’s got sex appeal” line, which had the MSM out in full blood, rehashing every sexist and misogynist line of the last three years. The people’s reaction: Labor fell two points, KRudd fell two points, Abbott’s personal approval rating went up about six points, and the actual candidate – the one with “sex appeal”, went from seven points behind to a crushing 61% to 39% lead over the sitting MP, who is a Cabinet Minister.

        Abbott and the LNP wil never be able to be the government this nation needs now, for as long as they cower to this crap that the MSM still have some sort of relevancy in this country any more. They don’t. They squandered any trust people might have once had in them. Today the average Australian thinks the National Press Club is a Dry Cleaner’s shop in Canberra, and rightly so.


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          Winston

          I agree with your sentiments. Unfortunately it takes a very thick skin and tremendous courage to stand against the flow of prevailing ignorance, particularly to withstand the persuasive and catchy soundbites Labor uses which distort the economic truth (ie. having “the lowest debt to GDP ratio in the world”, etc), to then come out as a candidate to govern the nation and say that the Commonwealth is stuffed, it actually owes over $300 billion, that GDP includes governments expenditure on itself and does not actually reflect our tax base – and so making the total debt at around 100% of our earning capacity, versus only 11% of GDP in Treasury’s wet dream version of reality and as constantly spruiked by trusted media figures like Laurie Oakes and Paul Bonjorno.

          I agree entirely with your comment above that most people are very cynical about the “sex appeal” non-issue and any gaffes by Abbott or even by Rudd are known to be pretty unimportant in the grand scheme of things , BUT (and its a big BUTT) most people are almost entirely ignorant of economic matters to the point of eyes glazing over, and many do not understand that the government can’t just dole out money when it wants to.

          Debt numbers are not something most of the population seem to have a thorough (or even in some cases remote) grasp on, due at least in part to an effective MSM campaign of disinformation to keep the punters well and truly in the dark about their significance. Bureaucracies hide the reality in a smokescreen of what ifs and maybes and “modelling” which has the semblance of authority for the uninitiated, while politicians like Abbott have to be mindful of not scuttling the ship in order to commandeer it, since telling the whole truth of the parlous state of an economy in tatters would further undermine confidence, investment and spending- all of which are necessary to be maintained in order to not shrink the tax base further and sabotage an already ailing economy.

          So, Abbott must take the prudent road of pointing out the deficiencies of Labor, the dangers of continuing along the same economic path, and the need for judicious spending cuts and trimming excess fat of government, without startling too many of the pigeons in case some of them may just fly the coop permanently.

          And yes, Rudd is the “suppository of all wisdom” even if he personally does think his sh*t doesn’t stink, and that a new dawn occurs every time he bends over.


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            Rod Stuart

            In the current auction of future assets, there is significant proportion of the voters that will swing in whatever direction seems to mean the most graft for themselves.
            Otherwise, why would the polls be running only 52 to 48?
            If a person thinks like MV, or Winston, or me, the polls should be more like 80:20.
            Somehow, MV, methinks there are a lot of bogans out there that think we are nuts.
            And, of course, those mental midgets that listen to and watch the ABC know we’re nuts.


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            amcoz

            Winston, I agree with what you write but I live in hope that Team TA will not revisit Malcome Fray-sure’s wasted opportunities after he clobbered Cough Whitless back in the seventies; twice at that.


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          Tel

          Next came the “she’s got sex appeal” line, which had the MSM out in full blood, rehashing every sexist and misogynist line of the last three years. The people’s reaction: Labor fell two points, KRudd fell two points, Abbott’s personal approval rating went up about six points, and the actual candidate – the one with “sex appeal”, went from seven points behind to a crushing 61% to 39% lead over the sitting MP, who is a Cabinet Minister.

          The media still live in a bubble of their own self-importance but at street level no one cares about political correctness, they are much happier with straight talk.


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          Rod Stuart

          Krudd still has pockets of popularity.
          He seems a big hit with the bogans that eat their own ear wax.


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        ROM

        Winston
        August 18, 2013 at 10:09 am ·

        The current Labor government is the most profligate, corrupt and incompetent in our short political history.
        ________________________________________________________
        Dunn’o about that.
        The Whitlam / Crean / O’Connor government of 1972 to 1975 would have given the current mob a good run for their bags of money for all of the above reasons.
        Luckily for Whitlam, he got chucked out before the full damage he and his political cabal were in the process of creating could come to fruition.

        And there were a couple of governments early in the century which I remember the old timers of my youth back in the 1940′s and 50′s talking about with awe at their stupidity and incompetence even then. Although the descriptive language used to describe them was somewhat rougher around the edges, ie; not fit to print in our sanitised and legally impaired world of commentary today..

        So on balance I suspect you are right and the Rudd, once removed / Gillard. / Greens / militant Union’s Labor government would get the gold medal for the most incompetent although not necessarily the most corrupt governments in Australia’s short history.

        On the corruption front, A couple of Labor governments back a long time ago that were beholden in large part to the radical, militant communist led union movements of many decades past would arguably get the gold medal and bar for corruption.

        There was no popular internet until the mid 1990′s, a remarkably short time ago and something very few ever sit back and marvel at the colossal impact the WWW has had on politics and every other ruling organisation in that the internet has opened up the sewer of politics, of bureaucracy and the often highly negative and debilitating influences on the body politic by the wealthy elites for all, right down to the most humble citizen, to see.

        Consequently it is highly likely that most of past pre 1990′s political and bureacratic corruption was often very well hidden from the populace of those past decades
        The media of those days had to do the job of exposing the corruption .
        And as we now know the media itself is now getting a very public and humbling and damn good working over for it’s lack of professionalism on many fronts, it’s frequent lack of ethics, it’s frequently displayed bigotry and it’s equally unacceptable partisanship in many matters, all also now revealed through and via the internet.

        It is also wise to remember that old saying where politics and governments are concerned ;
        Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


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        • #
          Winston

          ROM,
          I’m not saying the current mob don’t have extremely stiff competition, in fact it is a wonder that Australia has managed to be even remotely successful- almost entirely this success has been in spite of government not because of it. I grant you it’s a crackerjack field of spivs, dodderers, drunks, womanisers, morons, incompetents, thieves, bounders and cads. But, for all-round, flat out mind-numbing incompetence, with the coup de grace of being coupled with the incredible gall to actually pretend they are actually doing a great nation building job while simultaneously gutting the country economically , this lot are gold medallists. At least Whitlam could blame extreme inexperience for some of his ministers’ failings, as well as the spectre of Fraser and his relentless Macbeth-like ambition for blocking supply and tipping him over the edge.


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      • #

        It isn’t immediately obvious where Winston gets his “facts”, when everybody knows the IMF worked out that the Howard government was the highest-spending, highest-taxing government this country had seen in over 40 years.
        http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/hey-big-spender-howard-the-king-of-the-loose-purse-strings-20130110-2cj32.html

        I guess some people don’t let facts get in the way of their unsceptical politics…


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        • #

          Yep. That’s why Howard produced surpluses, and Rudd-Gillard left us with massive debt right?


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          • #

            What “massive debt”?

            You should be more sceptical of the Liberal Party propaganda – our deficit is tiny, and our debt is minute by world standards.

            You simply cannot demonstrate intellectual integrity *and* call Australia’s debt, “massive”. It’s complete rubbish.


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            • #

              Most Australian families would consider $50k a massive debt. The Howard govt left Rudd with $22b, and Rudd burned it all and accrued another $250b in debt and during a massive mining boom.

              That’s $52k per family of four in 6 years, and for what? Tin sheds in schools, pinks batts in houses, chinese solar panels that make expensive electricity, windmills that kill birds and bats, and an NBN that hardly anyone uses at the moment?

              You cannot pretend to have either intellectual integrity or the moral highground if you think wasting $13k of every other man, woman and child in Australia is not a massive debt.


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      Truthseeker

      Best description of the Labor party that I have seen, from a comment on the Piers Ackerman blog …

      The Australian Labor Party is a patronage machine, lubricated by the oil of “Whatever It Takes” and operated by vindictive mediocrities.


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      • #

        …but it’s Tony Abbott who has announced a raid on our Superannuation.
        I’m hardly surprised – Super was always going to be a scam used by government to fund its ridiculous ideas. I’m just surprised that it’s the Party that relies on the cranky-pensioner vote that made its move first. They must be confident.


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  • #
    Andrew McRae

    Finally on Friday the list of candidates was released for all electorates and I must say the list for the Senate in Qld may yet restore my faith in democracy. What a ragtag bunch of hopefuls they are!

    James Blundell is running! He sang the theme for the No Republic campaign despite wanting one! Clearly a man of principles. Plus he’s running for Katter’s mob, who must be fuming now that Tony’s stolen Bob’s Northern Fruitbasket policy.

    One of the Greens candidates is a consulting engineer. What’s his excuse for being taken in by the bunk?

    As for the Pirate Party, who needs them? If you like your property being stolen just vote for the ALP or the Liberals!

    Then there’s the Palmer United Party, for everyone who thinks that bribery and lobbying is such an eyesore that we should just skip the middleman and actually hand over the legislature to the mining companies. It sounds much more efficient! And really, when you think how many jobs and GDP is created by mining companies, is it really so bad to give them a seat at the table instead of pretending they don’t already?

    But blow me down with a feather duster, the Australian Democrats still exist! There’s so many ‘bastards’ now the honesty will have to be very thinly spread.
    Close behind are the Dems’ industrially backwards Syndicalist imitators, the Democratic Labor Party. Still, Monckton’s in favour of them so I’m sure a few climate skeptics who don’t have a NCTCSP suitor will slip them a ’1′ just to send a message.

    So many candidates, so many eliminations to make. Should they all be sub-par, you can always vote4Themm. ;)


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      Raven

      Spoilt for choice ……not. Idiots , liars and dills the bloody lot.


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      Bulldust

      Well duh … put the ASXP at number one. There’s a party everyone can stand up for.


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        MemoryVault

        There’s a party everyone can stand up for.

        Or lie down, or kneel, as one is wont to do.


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        Tel

        They are demanding taxpayer subsidised abortions on a completely open ended basis. I’m not entirely comfortable with that. I think an individual should be at least partially responsible for their own actions, and if you are going to have an abortion, make up your mind, be certain about it, and get it done early.


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      handjive

      By voting informal you are saving Australia money.

      Firstly, kudos and eternal gratitude to our kind host, Jonova, for allowing a forum to even discuss such a thing as ‘wasting a vote.’

      How stupid is the question if the answer is to even consider such an act?
      But for those wavering, or just curious, here is another angle: By voting informal you are saving Australia money.

      “Although major parties usually appeared to be staunch opponents, they actually colluded on many matters of common interest.”

      June 4, 2013, Australian politics 101: take the money and run

      “The ALP and Coalition made a deal to introduce new “administrative” funding for parties of an extra $1 for every first preference vote.
      This was to be in addition to the present $2.48 they receive per vote (the new rate from July).
      Then they pushed it further with a cheeky provision to backdate payments.

      The parties began doing this when their party memberships dropped severely at the same time as the costs of their party activities were increasing – especially their media costs.”
      .
      Add the undeserved pay rises they give themselves for NEVER achieving objectives, wasting millions billions trillions for nothing but green environazi pogroms in the process.

      Not only that, GreenLabor & the GreenLNP are in collusion with the unelected despots of the United Nations, pushing their UN-IPCC fraudulent climate wealth distribution agenda, trading & forfeiting our freedoms. Traitors. All of them.

      By voting informal you are saving Australia money. Maybe more.

      Make their lives hell too, just as they wished a diminished life on you.


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      Rob JM

      Thank god we have the climate sceptics party to vote for! They are even addressing the housing bubble issue! Please tell us they are preferencing greens/labour last?
      Unfortunately my formerly loved Aus democrats are partaking in the AGW scam. I did comment on their website that since their core value is to give everyone a voice that they should push for allowing rational debate to be put forward even if the don’t agree with me!


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  • #

    Just prior to the last election in 2010, the administrator at the site I contribute to showed real interest in what was happening with our election. We shared emails on the subject and in the end he asked me to run up some information in the form of a general Post for our site on the Electoral process here in Australia.

    Right from when I first started contributing in March of 2008, he was intrigued by three things.

    1. How voting was compulsory here in Australia, and how we made it work.

    2. Preferential voting and how that actually worked.

    3. Probably the thing that puzzled him most was how the major Conservative political party here was called The Liberal Party, because that word liberal in the U.S. means exactly the opposite, indicating politics of the left. I explained that the ALP was similar to their Democratic Party, and the Liberals were similar to their Republicans. This one thing alone is something I have to keep mentioning, virtually every time I bring up Australian politics.

    He was also a little intrigued that we gave our electorates names, because in the U.S. they are just referred to as Districts, and are just numbered.

    He was also puzzled as to why voting day was always a Saturday, and the timing was mainly dependent upon when the Government of the day thought was best suited to them to run it, and that could be any time up to and beyond the three year mark.

    In the U.S. Federal Elections are held every 2 years on the first Tuesday in November. Every member of the House of Reps is up for re-election, and at the same time they also hold an Election for a third of Senators, so like here in Australia, Senators get a six year term. Only the President gets a four year term, and the Reps only get two years.

    I really didn’t think an election here in Australia would receive all that much interest in the U.S. and even though I did run up that general Post on it, I wasn’t expecting it to be all that widely read.

    Oddly, that Post is right up there when it comes to numbers of visits, so I guess they do take an interest in what happens outside their own borders when it comes to politics.

    This is the link to that Post.

    The Australian Electoral Process Explained

    Tony.


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    • #
      Bulldust

      I wonder if a better way to explain it is that our politics is left-shfted compared to the US. Think of Liberals as Democrats, and the ALP is slightly further left. I don’t think we have a party quite like the Republicans, and we don’t need them.

      I am sure that comment may be on the nose to some readers, but dwell on this… Obama was fairly unpopular last election, and the GOP (Republicans) fielded a very moderate candidate and still lost easily. What the GOP has to wake up to is that they have become out of touch. The have drifted right or the people left, but either way they need to change. Until then they can enjoy being in opposition.

      Australia also has the advantage that our politics has nowhere near the amount of regulatory capture of the US – which is to say the corporations run the show. In particular the financial corporations. Democracy is all but dead in the US. It is probably best described as a plutarchy now. The GOP is most closely aligned with that set, but the Dems are also captured by them, though better at hiding it.

      The main thing that makes me wonder is, what happened to the Americans? All those guns and a country founded with rebellious zeal, yet now they are slaves to their wealthy upper class. La revolution est mort. I probably murdered that last line …


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        Rereke Whakaaro

        La revolution est morte. (You were missing the e on the end of morte.)

        I think you are right, Bulldust. But I would say that the US is suffering from fiscal capture by the international banking system, and added to that, there is the regulatory capture of the US through an assumption of power, which is then exercised by the senior tenured public servants.

        In Washington, politics is not the exclusive domain of the politicians.


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        bobl

        I think the USA was sunk by its immigration program. The problem their seems to be that the collective quanta of various unaligned minorities exceeds the dominant cultural majority. If you can successfully incite reverse racism you can then align the minorities against the majority in the USA. Hence the most discriminated against demographic in the USA (By my reading anyway) is probably middle aged white males.

        At least that’s the way it seems to an Australian looking on?


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    Stephen Harper

    Labor is still in bed with the greens. It’s an unedifying spectacle of parasite and host – locked into a ghastly embrace from which neither seems able nor willing to escape. Sadly, it is the long-suffering taxpayer and voting punter who must suffer the most.

    From the Canberra Times: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/queensland-the-exception-as-labor-to-preference-greens-before-all-in-senate-20130817-2s3er.html

    Labor’s national executive has ordered the party to preference the Greens ahead of all others in every state except Queensland.

    Labor has a deal with Bob Katter’s Australian Party in Queensland, but in other states and in the ACT, Greens senate candidates have been given a boost to their electoral chances.

    The move has angered ALP members in Victoria, who fear the deal might also affect how people vote in the lower house seat of Melbourne, which Labor is trying to win back from the Greens.

    ALP national secretary George Wright did not respond to calls from Fairfax Media.

    A senior Greens operative said the balance-of-power party would be preferencing Labor in the Senate in a similar fashion.

    ‘’You can forget all the rhetoric. At the end of the day, Labor and the Greens need to preference each other that way to keep the others out,’’ the contact said.

    And the ground is shifting ever-faster under the feet of our pompous, phony, sanctimonious, self-important prat of a PM, as the odds of a come-back victory recede. Centrebet now has Labor at 7.00 (6 to 1) and The Coalition at 1.10 (10 to 1 on). A few more days like the last week and Rudd will have Labor back where Gillard had led the once-proud party – into electoral oblivion territory. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch.


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  • #
    Brian G Valentine

    Maybe you or your husband would consider being a political candidate, Ms Nova?


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      Rereke Whakaaro

      You know, that is not such a bad idea, Brian.

      It would be a simple and efficient way of quadrupling the collective IQ of Australian politicians, overnight.


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        Hasbeen

        Very bad idea.

        Jo has much more respect now, than she could ever have once a politician. Tarred by the same brush & all that.

        She is doing much more good than she could ever do in any parliament.

        I’d much rather have her as honest, than as “the right honorable” thanks.


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          llew Jones

          My observation is that independents are no less open to corruption or unacceptable compromise than those in any Party. eg Windsor, Oakeshott and Wilkie. Maybe the act of becoming a politician has an impact on one’s character.

          Of course there is also the likelihood that most resist the discipline of being in a Party because they are nutters in some important area. I notice here there are some pretty attractive ACC skeptics but given their other views on a range of issues are a million miles from mine and I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole in terms of voting for them should they stand as independents.

          As far as voting informally I have a lot more face to face fun rubbishing the ALP and the Greens volunteers handing out how to vote cards at my local polling booth than would be possible with a bit of abuse at a distance on the ballot slip.

          Of course I also will tell the Liberal Party volunteers when accepting its how to vote card that their environmental policies are “crap”.


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          Rereke Whakaaro

          To be “the right honorable”, she would have to be a Minister in Cabinet, and that invariably means that she would have been captured, and held to ransom, by the Department for which she was responsible.

          Cabinet may well set policy, but the way that policy is interpreted can be something entirely different. If a policy is unpopular with the public servants, then that unpopularity can adversely influence the way it is implemented, which in turn impacts the overall outcome of the policy, including all of its “unintended consequences”.

          When society, in general, becomes aware of a “policy failure”, as it is called, then it is the Minister who has to carry the blame, whilst the public servants maintain their transparency.


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      MemoryVault

      .
      Forget it.

      I spent a year on and off, trying to goad Jo and David in that direction, and couldn’t even get a bite, let alone a reaction.


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  • #

    I think if I were an Australian voter, I’d vote against Labor even if I were a Labor supporter, if only to teach mainstream politics to really listen.

    http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/know-your-enemy-the-green-politician/

    Pointman


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      Tel

      The strangest thing is that the Greens are so universally enthusiastic about Socialism when the historical evidence shows that Central Planning has a terrible environmental track record. Time for a Libertarian environmental party.


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        Greg Cavanagh

        To Tel: I suspect they are socialists at heart as a theological position.

        They want to be of the highest moral mindset. They highest of coarse is the future of the planet. Humans pale in comparison to the whole planet. In fact with a planet wide view, humans have done untold damage.

        For some reason, the word “moral” has been associated to things not human. Yet I can’t understand the word having any meaning when only looking at nature alone.

        To Pointman: I’ve always been a swinging voter. I vote for the candidate or party that has the policies I agree with for any given election.

        My issue with Labor, is that they lie. They say one thing and do another. Their actions do not match their words.

        Labor not only stab others of their own part in the back. But they stab their very leader in the back, they one that is leading and has the voted support of the country. They stab this person in the back and take their job. If they are so willing to do this to their own party member, their own leaders; what would they be willing to do to us?


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        Andrew McRae

        I think you meant Communism. The common theme of Socialism is “the worker owns and controls the means of their production”. There’s 3 forms of Socialism: Worker Socialism, Syndicalism, and Communism (in ascending order of nastiness).
        Worker Socialism does not require any central planning. There’s probably 50,000 cabinetmakers, plumbers, and electricians in Australia who are Socialists and they don’t even know it because the capitalist free market gives these types of workers a different name: “self-employed”. They own all the factors of production and bring their own tools to the job. They are socialist workers. Aside from the economic inefficiency of having to do their own marketing, accounting, etc, there is no real harm done by being a socialist worker.
        Once they start banding together into Unions (ie Syndicalism) and the Unions begin to own the equipment and do collective bargaining for pay and conditions, well that starts the journey down the dark path.
        Under Communism the fiction that the people own and control the production through their representation on a central council stretches the meaning of “ownership” so far that it breaks. Communism has the most central planning of the 3 forms of Socialism so it fits your picture better.
        According to one renowned academic Communism is not a form of Socialism for that reason and we’re all victims of a propaganda campaign to convince us otherwise.


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          Erny72

          G’Day Andrew,

          You forgot to mention National Socialism, the hint’s in the name.


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            Andrew McRae

            G’Day Erny,
            You shouldn’t judge a book by its cover.

            The most famous “National Socialist” group were obviously the Nazis who were not nearly as Socialist in practice as the USSR – probably because Hitler claimed he was opposed to communism and for Darwinian reasons preferred market competition. Just because a regime is totalitarian socially does not mean they are communist economically.

            After Hitler wrote the Four Year Plan Memo for rearmament in preparation for war there is no doubt the country began operating under massive government control of the economy, yet even during this time several critical industries legally remained under private capitalist ownership despite the government being their main (or only) customer, the chemical and defence sector being some notable examples.

            Until 1936 there were in effect both systems operating (some aspects of State communism but mostly private ownership) with a subset of business targeted for nationalisation subject to the Nazi ideology, making the Nazi economy hard to classify neatly. Reality is messy. The aspects of socialism that the Nazis adopted were the tactics of Communism, but that doesn’t mean there is a 4th kind of Socialism any more than putting apples and oranges in the same box creates a third type of fruit. So either way there is nothing of significance missing from the above three-category analysis of Socialism.

            It’s a bit like Australia’s healthcare system: legally every doctor and medical practice is an independant operator, but in practice their prices are set by the government. Try installing an MRI machine without government approval and see how far you get. They can’t physically stop you but profit will be impossible because all your competitors will be subsidised by Medicare. It’s not exactly “government healthcare” but it’s not a “lightly regulated free market” either. Further, you wouldn’t call all of modern Australia an example of Socialism just because some sectors are ruled by government intervention on supply, work practices, and pricing.


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          Rereke Whakaaro

          Erny72 makes a good point.

          The original “green movement” was based on the philosophy of Heidegger, which held that humanity was infinitely involved with the essence of earth, sky, and gods; and a mode of living that was at one with nature. It turn, this was based on an ancient belief that a man was formed from the earth of his place of origin, and so was an extension of that place.

          This philosophy lead to the formation, after the Great War, of the German Youth Movement, a sort of boy (and girl) scouts association, to protect natural habitats within Germany.

          A pamphlet from 1923 sums up the philosophy of the time:

          In every German breast the German forest quivers with its caverns and ravines, crags and boulders, waters and winds, legends and fairy tales, with its songs and its melodies, and awakens a powerful yearning and a longing for home; in all German souls the German forest lives and weaves with its depth and breadth, it stillness and strength, its might and dignity, its riches and its beauty — it is the source of German inwardness, of the German soul, of German freedom. Therefore protect and care for the German forest for the sake of the elders and the youth, and join the new German “League for the Protection and Consecration of the German Forest”.

          The German Youth Movement was renamed, as The Hitler Youth movement, under Hitlers patronage. This, in turn, eventually evolved into the Sturmabteilung (SA) as the paramilitary wing of the Nazi Party that, among other things, harassed non-Aryan German residents. The SA was led by Ernst Roehm, who was a committed Socialist, and a homosexual, neither of which fitted terribly well with Heidegger’s idealistic philosophy of mankind’s place in nature.

          Sensing that Roehm was a danger, Hitler selected the most capable (and Aryan) of the SA, to form the SchutzStaffeinel (SS) to act as his personal body guard. The remainder of the SA was later purged in the Night of the Long Knives.

          Not that the history is terribly pertinent, but the philosophy is.

          Green movements, like fascist movements, have always been related to the land. But not to all land, only to the piece of land that is local, the slogan, “Think globally, and act locally” is a fascist sentiment. The protests mounted by Green movements, over whaling, or mining, or the cutting of forest, could have come from direct translations of the SA handbook (if such a thing existed). Indeed, the tendency to force the philosophy of one group, onto the majority, is a fascist strategy.

          Communism tends not to rely on demonstrations of force (unless there is no alternative), but rather on economic subversion, the control of goods and services, and manipulation of the money supply.

          Thus, both philosophies are in play, in a battle for supremacy.

          Both fascism and communism employ propaganda as one of their major weapons, and in true style, black becomes white, and the real fascism is called communism, while the real communists do what they do best, which is form oligarchies, whilst the proletariat suffer monetary inflation and artificial shortages in essential goods and services.


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    TimiBoy

    The one thing that is important that the LNP will bring to the table is Business Confidence. That alone will change things vastly for the better. As a Private Businessman, the constant changing of the goalposts, the difficulty in gaining Finance (Government competing for Lenders’ money) and the burgeoning pile of Red/Green Tape I have to navigate is so damned counter productive, wealth undermining and Employment reducing it’s not funny.

    I just want to run my Business, make some good coin, and share success with my Staff and their Families. It seems the ALP and the Greens think that’s a crime. I hate the bastards, and I WANT THEM GONE!


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    • #

      Tim Boy,

      The thing neither Labor nor the Greens understand is business. As far as I can tell no one on their side has ever held a wealth creating position. They invariably work for unions or academia and are takers not makers. It doesn’t seem to matter how many books one can read on a subject it is the experience of doing that determines real knowledge. That observation also holds true in the war that rages between the climate models and the real data; the latter trumps the former every time.


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      • #
        Peter Miller

        The parties of the left ask the question: “Does it work in theory?”

        The parties of the right ask the question: “Does it work in practice?”

        The parties of the green ask the question: “Does it make me feel smug?”

        And that boys and girls is the difference between bad, good and loony government.


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      llew Jones

      Same here. Been involved in an engineering business since Jan 1971. Still working 6 days a week in it.

      This ALP government, Gillard and Rudd x2, is by far the worst government for business prosperity in that time.


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    AndyG55

    Labor don’t appear to be distancing themselves from the green.

    From Tim Blair.. “Labor’s national executive has ordered the party to preference the Greens ahead of all others”


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    In 1975, the Whitlam Government was sacked, for their outrageous attempt to borrow $4 billion.

    Can anyone imagine any western government being sacked now, for trying to borrow $4 billion?

    How do we find our way back to Whitlam levels of profligacy with public cash?


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      Eric,

      People have been conditioned to accept big numbers and billion sounds very similar to million. I wonder if the ordinary punter realises just how big a billion is. If we reverted to calling it one thousand million it may have more impact. Barnaby Joyce uses the analogy of so many houses thus one billion equals 2500 average homes ($400k). Current government interest on debt is about 25000 homes per year.


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      • #
        KinkyKeith

        Another way of looking at things is the amount of debt run up in the names of Australia’s taxpayer since labor took office and the keys to the treasury.

        Total excess expenditure is in the order of $250 Billion.

        Assuming roughly 10 million Australian Taxpayers, this means they are saddled with a future debt of about $25,000 EACH.

        This money has gone to inflated wages for those close to the power supply and anyone associated with other methods of extraction such as Desalination plants (white elephants), Pink Batts, School Suns Shades and the occasional useful item such as Government Buildings and Roads and Highways.

        Even the buildings and highways, which are useful, are there on record at overinflated cost.

        But anyhow, back to the problem.

        How does each taxpayer now play off his or her $25,000?

        KK


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    Rereke Whakaaro

    Preference swaps means politicians write up lists of how they hope their fans will number their voting card. In quite a few seats these second or third choices of voters will end up winning. May the least disliked pollie win.

    So, in the final analysis, it comes down to a combination of who can smile with the best teeth, and who uses the most hair gel?

    And youse okkers wonder why us sheep sh**ers think you are all puff but na wind.


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    Speedy

    There’s always the Nationals. (At least they don’t buy into the CO2 scare story.) They have a voice in the coalition – why not make it louder?

    Unofficially, I think the Liberal’s aren’t that convinced but don’t want the flak from the “Love” media. In a way, it would be justice – a newly-elected government suddenly abolishing a Carbon Tax.

    Cheers,

    Speedy


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  • #

    BTW the ABC is still pumping it out..

    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/ockhamsrazor/attributions-to-climate-change/4886272

    typically glosses over the issues and tries to paint those who don’t believe in AGW as idiots (Deniers)… Needs setting to rights.


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    • #

      As a genuine “saving” the Coalition could reduce the ABC budget to more accurately reflect it’s relevance. The ABC backs the ALP and Greens and it looks like they will pick up about 46% of the vote hence they have the budget reduced to $460 million. Seems fair to me and maybe some of their more extreme trollops aka trioli, deveney etc may have to get real jobs.


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        Angry

        The ABC (Australian BULLSHIT commission) should be PRIVATIZED….

        Every single day they break their charter which requires balanced reporting.

        They are simply the mouthpieces of the alp/greens, yet ALL Australian taxpayers are required to fund them !!!


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  • #
    Rod Stuart

    You might find this post on the topic of the election campaign to be of interest.


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    Neville

    Here’s the latest Roy Morgan polling for the federal election. I think this is too high for LNP and latest Galaxy at 52% LNP and Labor 48% is probably too low.

    But the polling in marginals is very good for LNP and bad for Labor. Beattie Qld and Lindsay in NSW shows big increase in LNP support.

    For the Poll nerds

    This telephone Morgan Poll shows Two-Party preferred: L-NP 57% cf. ALP 43%. The primary vote is L-NP 52%, ALP 31%, Greens 9% and Independent/Others 8%. Of those surveyed 2.5% did not name a party.

    This special telephone Morgan Poll was conducted over the last two nights this week of August 12/13, 2013, with an Australia-wide cross section of 569 electors.


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    Ian

    I am concerned that there is a thread running from this blog by Jo and from the commenters to it, that the Libs are going to win. Being naturally pessimistic (wish I wasn’t but I am) all this and comments elsewhere in the MSM give me the strong sensation that this is “tempting fate”. Personally I fear that the ALP will move ahead during the next three weeks. The ABC quite subtly (and often not so subtly) favours the ALP and certainly the SMH and AFR do. Rudd is chucking money about like confetti but to be fair, Abbott’s PPL is a very expensive exercise. Neither the ALP or the Opposition are grasping the tax nettle or the work place relations nettle both of which are crucial to Australia’s economic future. An example is Holden. In February John Camillo was crowing that the AMWU had secured the most magnificent pay deal ever. i8 months later John Camillo is crying as workers vote for a cut in conditions in response to Holden’s possible pull out of Australia, along with Ford, in 2016. Are the unions brain dead?Can’t workers see that extravagant pay deals aren’t in their best interests? Can’t voters see ever increasing government debt has to be paid for some time. All I ever hear is Australia has a triple A rating, Rudd saved us from the GFC, Australia’s debt is much less than everyone else’s. Sorry to rain on the parade but I’m really not looking forward to the next three weeks and if the ALP does in fact win, which I think it will to the next three years during which Australia’s economy will be seriously compromised


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      Speedy

      Ian

      In the event of an ALP/Greens victory, you consider that

      “Australia’s economy will be seriously compromised”???

      You, Sir, are a Grandmaster of the understatement.

      I’d say that another 3 years like the last 6 (and minus a mining boom to boot) will mean that the economy will be totally…

      SNIPPPPPED.

      You know what I mean.

      Cheers,

      Speedy


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      Angry

      The alp (Australian LIARS PARTY) will be decimated and will be able to hold their caucus meetings in a telephone booth !


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    RoHa

    Difficult election. The Coalition is totally repulsive. The ALP is slightly less repulsive, but seems to be in a hopeless mess. The Greens have some excellent policies (e.g. stop foreigners from buying up Australia) but their actual green policies are disastrous. If I vote for Katter, Palmer,or one of the other nuts my vote will probably go to one of the big three by preferences.

    I’m going to have to write my own name in.


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      Neville

      Roha if you can’t decide who to vote for you must be a fool.
      You must just love the pain, lies and incompetence of the last 6 years.
      I admire Abbott but will give my first preference to a minor party.
      But the LNP will get my vote well ahead of the Labor/Green idiots.
      In fact I intend to preference them last in the Reps and senate.


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        RoHa

        “You must just love the pain, lies and incompetence of the last 6 years.”

        I thought I made it clear I didn’t.

        “I admire Abbott”

        Then you must be a fool. (See, I too can call people fools just because they do not agree with my political views.)

        But Abbot is slightly preferable to Julie Bishop. (Not only is she a traitor, but also when she was Minister of Education she showed herself ignorant of both moral education and the Australian Constitution.) I’d much prefer Joe Hockey as the LNP leader.

        “but will give my first preference to a minor party.”

        And it will then be passed on to a major party.


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    Rob JM

    1/Vote the climate sceptics party in the senate!
    2/Tony Abbot is Blackadder posing as Mr Bean!
    Let me explain,
    Abbot has had to overcome his upperclass pitbull reputation and the way they found to appeal to the common man is to take on the persona off Mr Bean!
    In addition the average australian male is sick to death of being told what to do and think by the politically correct elitist left thought police. All Abbott has to do is to bait the leftist media with comments such as the “sex appeal” comment and watch as the faux moral outrage pushes the swinging male voters his way. Mission accomplished.
    Mr Abbott has a very, very, very cunning plan!

    Blackadder: Baldrick, I have a very, very, very cunning plan.
    Baldrick: Is it as cunning as a fox what used to be Professor of Cunning at Oxford University but has moved on and is now working for the U.N. at the High Commission of International Cunning Planning?
    Blackadder: Yes it is.
    Baldrick: Hmm… that’s cunning.


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    janama

    I suspect that RoHa is totally repulsive as well. If you can’t decide between the two parties in this election you are a dunce!


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    Rod Stuart

    “Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. ”…………George Orwell


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    Rod Stuart

    Recommendation:
    How the world works (Including Oz)


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    J.H.

    It would seem that a blog hasn’t made it unless it has been mentioned in the Hansard…. Good for you Jo. You are now a part of Australia’s written political history. ;-)


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      Speedy

      J.H.

      And I’m sure Jo will be thrilled to learn that she is “well financed”!

      Cheers,

      Speedy


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        Eddie Sharpe

        Do pollies realise things can succeed without massive external funding ?
        Thriving on human capital & integrity (yes people appreciate what they can trust) & a passion for getting it right..
        Is that why so many multi-million dollar govt. funded project lose their way (universities) or become total stuff ups (need I name them) ? They lack that spark of inspiration and lose that guiding light for what matters and getting it right.


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        Michael P

        I think Rob Oakshott means that we should attempt to make Jo well-financed by donating more,and then thanking him for the publicity even though the Greens and various other idiots I’m sure hate this site with a passion.


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        Joe V.

        Rather more fancied than financed, I fancy.


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    Truthseeker

    a very well organised and very well-funded campaign from the likes of JoNova and Viv Forbes

    Two questions …

    What funding?

    Who is Viv Forbes?


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      Len

      Viv is a Queenslander who runs the Carbon Sense group.


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    • #

      Truthseeker, I’ve added a link to my response in 2010 in the post:

      I’m bowled over by the compliment. Is he really giving me and Viv the joint credit for the sweeping poll changes? (As if). I’ll just ask my PR department (me) to arrange with my cartoonist (me too) to throw together a parody of parliament, which the web-editor (me) can code into a page. All of us are delighted to be described as well organized. (It’s true we communicate like we are all in one head.) **

      We’re a bit confused about the “well funded” term though, since we write pro bono, and are essentially a charity operator.

      Viv Forbes likewise funds himself and writes letters to the Australian media many times a week. http://carbon-sense.com/ He’s been keeping skeptical views in front of editors for years.


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    So then, why is The Senate the most important part of this election?

    Well, some may say not really important, because they do not change over until mid 2014, so it’s status quo until then.

    Problematic if the thinking is that there will be an Abbott Government, which need a Senate willing to repeal the CO2 Tax/ETS.

    But is it?

    Let’s ballpark on a couple of fronts here, and I know it’s just a ballpark.

    Say Abbott wins comfortably. Then, with a (relative) status quo in The Senate, the threat of a double dissolution wiping out Labor in the Senate is a real thing, so Labor, rather than risk being wiped out, will (grudgingly) vote for the repealing of the CO2 Tax/ETS.

    So then, what is The Senate likely to look like after the election.

    We need to know the current standing, in other words, those Senators not up for re-election. The LNP has 16. ALP has 13. The Greens have 6 and there’s one DLP. (Remember here that the NT and ACT with 2 Senators each are up for election at every Lower House Election, so that’s why this total only adds up to 36)

    So, now, for Abbott to get a Majority in the Senate (wef mid 2014) then the LNP needs to get to 39.

    With just the status quo the LNP will get 18. (NSW 3, Vic 3, SA 2, WA 3, Qld 3, Tas 2, ACT 1, NT 1.) This takes the LNP up to 34. I can’t see the LNP winning 5 more, unless the swing is really on.

    The could probably be one in Qld, and one in Victoria, and that will only be after all preferences are exhausted.

    NSW, well maybe, but imagine poor Ursula Stephens long term Senator (12 years) in the Number 3 spot behind Bob Carr and Doug Cameron.

    Note in 2 other States, (Qld and WA) sitting Senators have been relegated to second and third positions on the ballot ahead of newcomers in both States, both of them Union Officials, and if there is a swing on, then sitting Senators in that 3rd position get booted, while the new guy, an ex Union official takes their place. I guess this is what the ALP refers to as renewal.

    In South Australia, Nick Xenophon is directing his preferences away from Hanson-Young, so no that opens up one spot in SA, as she won’t get a full quota in her own right, so her preferences will flow to Labor. However, if there is a swing on, then that last spot may in fact open up for the LNP.

    That still leaves 2. Whish-Wison will probably get back with the exhausted votes from Labor, and the same will happen in WA as Ludlum and the the ALP fight out for that final spot.

    However, what about this then. The DLP and Nick Xenophon could actually be on Abbott’s side, and realistically, he only needs one to support him. (+ one for and -1 against)

    So, Abbott will not (realistically) get there in The Senate, but if the Green vote collapses, then that DD threat is the sword of Damocles for the 6 Greens, and any DD would see Abbott gain that extra 2 just from the Greens alone. And for those of you perhaps hoping for a DD, be very careful what you wish for. If this election goes as I have ballparked here, Sarah Hanson-Young loses her Senate seat. In the event of a DD, then there’s every possibility that she’ll get back in, because while she won’t get the full 16% quoto in a Half Senate election, she will get a full 8% quota at a DD.

    No, perhaps the thing going in favour of the repealing of that CO2 Tax/ETS is the fact that both Labor and The Greens would be the biggest losers in a DD. The Greens, ever the bloody minded lot they are will vote against repealing just on principle, but the ALP might see that they are better keeping what they’ve got than risking it, in the hope they can come back from the edge of the abyss in three years.

    Isn’t it fun being able to have somewhere where we can do exercises like this.

    Tony.


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      Rod Stuart

      I wouldn’t put any money on old Whoosh Whoosh Wilson Tony.
      The bastard lives just down the road. He’s about as popular as a skunk at a garden party. Remember, he wasn’t elected…..he just slid in there like the slippery turd that he is.
      Tassie is not surprisingly sick and tired of the fascist green mob. Sure, there is still a silent minority of the stinkers. However, they are rightfully copping the flak (finally!)for flogging this state into oblivion, and beyond the “tipping point” to use one of their asinine phrases. Whoosh is one of those high flying pricks that has sucked every possible grant and handout for his vintner business (his wine tastes like devil piss) and everybody knows it. And everybody knows he has his greedy hand out for more!


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      Rod Stuart

      I forgot to mention, Tony, that Swish is as bad or worse than the Dudd for living high off the hog.
      Swish has managed to rack up a travel bill of some $428,000 of my money and yours on travel, and that is fairly well known in the Tamar Valley.
      I would say this opportunist is well aware that the days of travelling to Europe to visit vinyards at the cost of the taxpayer are numbered in his case, so it’s a matter of MAKE HAY WHILST THE SUN DOTH SHINE.


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    Eddie Sharpe

    On voting

    we number the politicians sequentially from one to n according to to how much we dislike them. Bigger numbers are worse.

    So you give more votes to who you dislike most ? That’s not choosing thats blocking, the worst or the most undesirable while the winner gets through by default.
    No wonder it delivers such inspirational leadership.


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    MadJak

    Can someone help me out in my ignorance here?

    If Centrebet have the odds at 5 to 1 for a coalition win, how on earth can the polls show it being neck and neck at 48:52?

    Am I the only one wondering this?

    Am I the only one wondering if the polls might converge to what centrebet is saying in the last week or two before the election so they might have some semblance of reality?

    If there is one think I have learnt is the that the average Aussie is no mug. I really cannot fathom the thought that almost 50% of the punters out there would subscribe for more of this leadership defunct economic vandalasim guised as obsolete imagined misogyny and class warfare BS.


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      Heywood

      G’day MadJak,

      You have to remember that the 48:52 is the two-party preferred figure. 48:52 is actually a big difference.

      As you can see at this link, the coalition at 52% 2PP would mean 83 seats to the coalition, 64 seats to the ALP with 3 to “others”.

      2PP figures like we are seeing now make leftard ALP zealots like Michael the “Realist” poop their pants.


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      MemoryVault

      Madjak,

      Rod Stuart posed the same conundrum up at Point # 1.1.1.1.1.

      I think the answer lies, not in people’s attitudes or voting intentions, but in the veracity of the polls and the level of respect (or lack of) that people have for them.

      The interim results leading up to the last election here in QLD were pretty much the same – neck and neck right up to the line. Then came voting day and the QLD electorate reduced the QLD Labor Party back to pretty-much The Tarago Team.

      Pollsters, after all, are merely an extension of the MSM reporting process. Who would be interested in poll after poll that showed the election result was a foregone conclusion of landslide proportions? There are all sorts of tricks pollsters can pull to create a desired result.

      On top of that I believe many people have woken up to the fact that pollsters are now “part of the media entertainment circus”, rather than the source of any real information. They respond to these surveys accordingly.

      Bookies, on the other hand, have real skin in the game. They don’t make their money from selling cliff-hanger poll results to an eager media. They make their money getting the figures to accurately reflect where the average punter is prepared to commit his hard-earned.

      They are almost always right.

      The election result will far more closely reflect the bookies’ odds, rather than the pollsters’ claims.


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    Rod Stuart

    Another ALP unplanned idea that went bust.
    Doctors are bailing out of e-health. It’s just like grocery watch.


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    “Stick with us overseas readers. The spectacle goes on…” Jo as far as I’m concerned Australia is a sort of bellwether state in the politics of this issue (AGW). Good to see the tide turning. Whatever you do over there may have implications for us so I’m watching with interest. Still think it’s a slow subtle face saving climbdown rather than a principled repositioning. For Deity’s sake (h/t Rereke) kick the Kruddites out.


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    Speedy

    Evening All.

    Paul Kelly, at The Australian, nails it beautifully, to quote:

    Abbott’s tactic is to demonise the Greens and to delegitimise Labor by virtue of its ties with the Greens. His taunts against Rudd on this issue are his strongest and most personalised of the campaign: “No real leader of the Labor Party, no real friend of the workers of Australia would want to do a deal with the Greens. And Mr Rudd, that’s exactly what he’s doing.”

    For Labor, the shocking thing about Abbott’s comment is that he is right on both counts. Labor must do preference deals of sorts with the Greens because keeping upwards of 80 per cent of Greens preferences is critical to Labor winning government.

    This is a trap entirely of Labor’s own making – they were so desperate for power that they sold their soul to the Greens in 2010. Now, they are paying the price.

    Cheers,

    Speedy


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    warcroft

    THIS MUST BE WATCHED!

    The Greens election campaign.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14vBe-PrJ-E


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    Raven

    News is reporting that putting all the greens last preference deal is not absolute .

    http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/liberals-fail-to-put-greens-last/story-e6frfku9-1226699545355

    What games are they playing now?


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    Raven

    Sorry for duplicate ….this just in

    VOTER support for Kevin Rudd has sunk to its lowest level on record, leaving Labor headed for a large election loss with Tony Abbott now virtually equal as preferred prime minister.

    After two weeks of presidential-style campaigning – in which the Prime Minister’s personal support has continued to plummet and the Opposition Leader’s has steadily risen – Mr Rudd is in a worse position than when he was removed as Labor leader in June 2010.

    The latest Newspoll survey, conducted exclusively for The Australian on the weekend, finds Mr Abbott in his best position ever against Mr Rudd.

    Labor’s primary vote, at 34 per cent, is now at its lowest level since Mr Rudd removed Julia Gillard as prime minister and the Coalition’s primary vote of 47 per cent is at its highest during the same time.

    Primary support for the Greens dropped from 11 per cent to 9 per cent as Mr Abbott spent much of last week campaigning against minority government, ruling out doing a deal with the Greens and challenging Mr Rudd to follow.

    On a two-party-preferred basis, based on preference flows at the 2010 election, Labor’s support has dropped two percentage points, to 46 per cent, and the Coalition’s support has risen to 54 per cent.


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    Ace

    This is all Australian…might as well be talking Strine… to me…see you folks on the next thread.


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    Safetyguy66

    Greens are finished and good riddance.


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    Ross

    When I first saw this I thought it had to be joke. But apparently it is not. The Greens and Clive Palmer working together. Talk about hypocrisy from the Greens !! I wonder if all those journalists supporting the Greens in Qland will continue their support?

    http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/mining-magnate-clive-palmer-and-the-greens-in-election-deal/story-fnho52ip-1226699523115


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      Safetyguy66

      Last desperate flailing of a creature with its throat cut that doesnt quite know its dead yet. Brain is firing off random impulses prior to the bowels letting go and then stillness and silence, the best thing Christine Milne could ever deliver.


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    Angry

    It’s going to beautiful in its ugliness ………


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    Angry

    Some other political parties worthy of serious consideration….

    The Australian Protectionist Party
    http://www.protectionist.net/

    One Nation party
    http://www.onenation.com.au/

    Stop Coal Seam Gas party
    http://www.stopcsgparty.org.au/

    Climate Sceptics party
    http://www.climate-sceptics.com.au/


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    dylan

    We need a credible libertarian party in Aus

    With a small government and civil service which only intervenes/regulates when absolutely necessary. A government of economic reformers and not micro-managers.

    Where representatives salary + super is subject to the same legislation of those they represent.

    Canberra could shrink to a tenth of its size with no effective loss. The senate could be disbanded (why have two Westminster houses if the typical voter votes Labor/Labor or Liberal/Liberal?)

    Such a pity our constitution was written to show off the (illusionary) trappings of power.


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    John Knowles

    Here in Au we are universally snide about our political “Punch and Judy Show” yet the real problem is that we are being steadily governed more and more, not so much from the Federal Government but by all sorts of little rules and regulations.

    e.g. I’m pricing a single car garage for a client. In days gone by I’d simply build it and get paid. To-day I’ll need a geo-tech report before an engineer can certify the foundation I designed and then there will be two Council inspections. I live in a high risk bush-fire region and there will be some expensive extras so my estimate of pre-build costs is up around the $3000 mark and this is only a corrugated sheet metal garage for a single car on a standard concrete slab.

    At some stage Australians are going to have to stop letting “others” be responsible for their lives, cut out several layers of mandatory regulation and put the onus squarely upon the shoulders of the individual (where it belongs).

    If after 30 years I’m incapable of designing and building and taking responsibility for, a simple garage out in the bush there really is something wrong.

    The same type of scenario is encroaching upon school teachers and discipline, nurses and legal liability, the police and their duties, doctors and the advice they offer, etc.,etc.

    We need less governing and more self-respond-ability.


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