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Australian conservatives going Labor lite — pandering to the “green vote” or just confused?

What were they thinking?

Tony Abbott has a plan to try to convince China and the US to sign up for the “global climate change deal.” As if the world’s number one and two economies, with a population of 1.6 billion combined, will be waiting for instructions. And as if the global climate needed “a deal”.  Hey but we do have 22 million people. squeak. squeak.

To make matters worse, Greg Hunt — the opposition spokesman for the environment — said a Coalition Government might not wipe out the emissions reductions target but… wait, they might lift the target instead. Thus taking something useless, expensive and ineffective against a problem-that-doesn’t-exist and making it moreso.

It’s a mistake every which way. The Liberal Party could play them at their own green game and beat them, just by applying common sense. Instead its appeasing the politically correct namecallers (who wouldn’t vote for them anyway), and the price they pay is to look weak, irrational and lacking in conviction.

A true environmentalist would stop wasting money on schemes that don’t help the environment. (Why spend a cent cooling Australia by no degrees? There goes the carbon tax…)

If the Liberal Party were serious about protecting the environment, they would promise to drop funding for pointless fantasies and token do-gooder projects and get the science right first.  A government that was serious about the environment would use some saved funds to set up an entirely new climate science research unit — one that aimed at predicting the climate (inasmuch as it is possible). Better climate models would help farmers, town planners, tourism operators, emergency services, dams and water catchments. It’s not just green, its a productivity thing too. Better than a wind-farm…

The new unit could compete with the BOM and CSIRO and may the best scientists win.

A real green policymaker would audit our temperature records independently. How can we be serious about managing Australia’s climate if our records have biased and inexplicable adjustments, that are described as “neutral”?  Why would anyone who cares about the environment be prepared to accept shoddy data, bugs, and mysterious black box methods that no one can test?

At the end of the day, if the Greens cared about the air, the temperature and the trees, they would care about the data used to track these things. They would care about the outcomes. Anything less is just “seeming”.

Ladies and Gentlemen we have some work to do.

 

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Australian conservatives going Labor lite -- pandering to the "green vote" or just confused?, 9.4 out of 10 based on 84 ratings

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221 comments to Australian conservatives going Labor lite — pandering to the “green vote” or just confused?

  • #

    If one is to judge another’s motives by the consequences of their repeating the same actions, then saving the environment is not their motive. Their words are irrelevant and their actions say everything. Their goal is to destroy the global economy, reduce the productive portion of the global population to the lowest common denominator. They are willing to do this even at the cost of their own existence.

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    • #

      Exactly, Lionel. And the worst type of traitor is a conservative that bolts to the left on global warming er climate change. That’s because to most conservatives the “science” is clear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK_WyvfcJyg&info=GGWarmingSwindle_CO2Lag. To the left, what is presented in the video link above (on CO2), and the debunked hockey stick etc, doesn’t matter. BECAUSE the left isn’t motivated by the science, but by this:
      “We’ve got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing …” -leftist US Senator Tim Wirth, 1993
      “We have to offer up scary scenarios… each of us has to decide the right balance between being effective [lying] and being honest [ineffective].” -Stephen Schneider, lead ipcc author, 1989
      “No matter if the science of global warming is all phony… climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.” -C. Stewart, Canadian Minister of the Environment
      But conservatives don’t share the idea that seriously clamping down on industrial society is a good thing to do for its own sake. So that’s why a conservative must really really believe the obviously politically driven “science” to stand in the same boat with the leftists. What makes these climate change pushing “conservatives” so much smarter than the rest of us? We all know — the science is bunk. Why not them?

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      • #
        gai

        Re-read Dr Evans Climate Coup – the Politics. He NAILED it. There is no two party system. It is the political class, as Rasmussen Reports calls them against ‘Main Street’ that is the rest of us. It does not matter where you are the political class has ‘Captured’ the government. The Top Democrat in the US Senate was very blunt about it.

        Sen. Dick Durbin, on a local Chicago radio station this week, blurted out an obvious truth about Congress that, despite being blindingly obvious, is rarely spoken: “And the banks — hard to believe in a time when we’re facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created — are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place.” The blunt acknowledgment that the same banks that caused the financial crisis “own” the U.S. Congress — according to one of that institution’s most powerful members — demonstrates just how extreme this institutional corruption is.

        http://www.salon.com/2009/04/30/ownership/

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        • #
          JunkPsychology

          Durbin was (and still is) the number two Democrat in the US Senate, after Harry Reid.

          But there’s not much question about the political clout of large financial institutions.

          Recently enacted legislation, intended to deter insider trading by Congressmen and Senators, has already been scaled back, to reduce the likelihood of publicly embarrassing revelations about certain people’s financial dealings. The scaleback passed both houses, President Obama signed it, and the subservient media kept it all quiet.

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        • #
          Geoff Sherrington

          Agreed, I broadened these sentiments in a recent small essay elsewhere:
          There is an urgent need to address, by Royal Commissions, the corruption of Government process.
          In simple terms, modern Australian Governments have increasingly been telling people what they must take, with next to no prior public consultation. In principle, the opposite must apply. Governments are elected to express the majority will of the people. Governments have also extended their activities to matters far beyond Constitutional intent.
          This is a corrupt way to govern, in the broad sense. In the narrow sense of corruption that can be criminally prosecuted, the present general corruption conceals figures that would otherwise show criminal influence.
          One of the biggest reasons for the current deficit is exclusion of the public from expressing preferences in decision making, especially in arenas where long term development is concerned. Australia’s policy of banning nuclear energy is an example. No investor of sound mind will bring new energy-intensive industry to Australia (such as major parts of the aluminium industry) knowing that future power will be expensive and unreliable as the percentage of green influence grows. Windmills do not drive aluminium smelters. New dams can. Investment is scared away. The portrayal of the pros/cons of nuclear energy has been corrupted by governments; and its real cost has been hidden among a huge series of potential financial imposts that are social in nature, rather than real.
          There is general corruption at all 3 levels of Government. PM Gillard’s attempts in recent weeks to reform education have not been put before the people in any significant way. In Victoria where I live, the people were not really considered before we had a desalination plant white elephant, which probably involved criminal corruption involving unions. In my shire, we have an expensive program of dedicating roadway to bicycles that are seldom seen. We ratepayers were not asked our preferences.
          This general corruption has led to a lack of other controls. For example, it has led as well to serious but uninvestigated matters such as the possible falsification of data by entities like Universities, CSIRO, BoM on Global Warming. At the very least, there has been publicity for the pro-warming cause and suppression of “inconvenient” contrary science. I have studied and documented these intensively and do not write lightly. This has been a factor in the silliness of the Global Warming fiasco, which of itself has been a major consumer of funds that could have been spent elsewhere with benefit. Keep in mind that there is still no single, definitive paper that makes a quantitative, replicable link between greenhouse gas concentration in the air and global temperature change. There is no science basis for a Carbon Tax.
          Ranked in order, the main corrections that IMO should be addressed are:
          1. Adherence to the Constitution, not a mere assumption by a Government that it can meddle.
          2. Swallowing the stupidity of the Green movement, with further examples from failing economies like Spain, Germany.
          3. Interference by organised unions, bodies which should have realised some decades back that work conditions are nor International rather than National, and folded.
          4. Minimising the activity of COAG, a generally secretist manner to make rules.
          5. Active restoration of pride and achievement among the citizens, who are currently lacklustre because they see failure after failure of corrupt Government process.

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          • #
            KinkyKeith

            Geoff

            A most important item.

            The only way we are going to get a Royal Commission is if the Incoming Government does so on the basis that it will seek, expose and prosecute unlawful activity once in office.

            The fact that The Liberals are not publicly denying Climate Change driven by CO2 is an ominous sign that they may also wish to profit from the CAGW Bonanza once in power.

            It needs to be made an issue BEFORE the election so that they can be held to account later.

            Seems they are resisting; too tempting?

            KK

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            • #
              Dennis

              Keith we need to look back to the alarmist fear campaign at and since Kyoto where the Howard Coalition signed up but declined from ratifying it and by doing so exposing Australia to penalties for not achieving set a greenhouse gas emissions reduction target. Howard established a Greenhouse Office in 1998 to establish common sense based, realistic ways to reduce emissions.

              A lot has changed since those days leading to now and the implosion of alarmist mythology. However there remains a certain political climate of greenism and maybe the Coalition feels that a strategic withdrawal is the best way to proceed rather than a point blank dumping?

              Noting that some 30-40 per cent of voters continue to believe the climate change propaganda.

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              • #
                KinkyKeith

                Yes Dennis, good points.

                They do have to get elected and if 30 to 40% are “Mesmerised by the CC agenda it may be good

                politics to “get in first” and then do the right thing.

                I have very good feelings about Tony Abbott but we wont know until he’s there

                KK :)

                30

        • #
          Mark D.

          Gai, what we could do is two things:

          1. All senators and congresspeople must conduct all their work whilst physically within the borders of their states.

          2. Ban all lobby activity above the individual (ie professional lobbyists would need to find real jobs).

          The first would make the second much easier to work out. The first would also force our “representative” democracy to actually behave that way.

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        • #
          Greg House

          gai says, (#1.1.1): “Re-read Dr Evans Climate Coup – the Politics. He NAILED it.”
          ==================================================

          No, he did not. In fact, he supported 2 main unscientific core AGW statements: “global warming” and “warming by CO2″, and he labeled people who disagree with the AGW concept as not serious, quote:

          “…There is no dispute among serious scientists about the direct effect of CO2.

          …Issues such as [...] tell us nothing about the causes of global warming.”

          00

        • #
          Ian H

          It is a mistake to overgeneralise.

          Most of the problems that seriously afflict US politics are either unique to the US or are only minor problems elsewhere. They are the symptoms of a disastrously broken political system. You simply don’t get these kinds of problems in a functional democracy. The US political system is so seriously broken that it cannot be called a democracy. The elections in the US these days are, like those in the old USSR, largely symbolic and meaningless. The US is a cautionary tale of what happens if you load so many checks and balances onto your system that it breaks under the burden. There is always power in government. If you prevent the democratically elected representatives of the people from exercising that power out in the open where they can be held accountable and responsible for its use; then power will find its way into the hands of others in the shadows who have no care for responsibility or accountability but only for their own enrichment.

          10

    • #
      Jon

      Cultural Marxism?
      And the real issue is global socialism?

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      They are willing to do this even at the cost of their own existence.

      What? No escape plan? Surely you jest Lionell? Not even a spaceship hidden nearby or transfer to an alternate universe through a black hole? How disappointing! Even a bad sci fi movie script could do better.

      But maybe this is a bad sci fi movie. :-(

      11

      • #

        They don’t have an escape plan for anyone. For them, that lack is a feature and not a bug. To have an escape plan would require them to exercise the very thing they work to destroy: the human mind.

        Reality requires they use their minds to create the values necessary for them to live. It is this requirement they wish to destroy. In the process of destroying it, they destroy all that is human – even themselves – and with escape for no one.

        Way down deep where it really counts, they resent the responsibility for being human. As a consequence, they wish to destroy all that is human.

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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Lionell,

          Sadly, you are right about their disregard for consequences. It’s become a monster not even they can stop anymore. It now has to play out and wait for the point where sanity will get back in control of human affairs.

          I think it will come back toward sanity. The open question is, when? And in the meantime a whole lot of damage will be done.

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    • #
      Maverick

      Lionell, you attribute way too much intelligence to the political parties. It would take sophisticated intelligence and planning to destroy the global economy via the ruse of the environment. They simply want votes, and the Liberal party thinks that there are more votes in playing along with the carbon tax fraud, albeit in a “lite” way as Jo puts it, and less votes in exposing the fraud to a brainwashed bunch of media following sheep who will be highly offended if they are told “their baby ( a belief in that an Australian carbon tax can save the world) is ugly”

      50

      • #
        John Brookes

        Yep, Occam’s razor.

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      • #

        I disagree. It takes some intelligence but not much to notice the consequences of your actions and to try a different path when the actions fail to reach the goal. Dogs, cats, rats, and earth worms can do it so why not them? They don’t even bother to notice, evaluate, and correct but unfailingly continue down the same path regardless of the damage caused. Hence, I conclude that the damage is their ultimate motivation.

        It is the power of unbounded evasion and willful failure to think that wipes awareness of such things from their minds. It is not lack of basic intelligence. Their end state was accomplished by them one evasion and one refusal to think at a time. If done long enough, it will lead to unfailingly choosing the wrong path to reach stated goals. I contend it was and is done by willful intent.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        …if they are told “their baby ( a belief in that an Australian carbon tax can save the world) is ugly”

        Their baby is not only ugly but vicious. It’s surely going to bite them along with everyone else.

        I keep watching Obama playing his game, living it up at the taxpayers expense while bluffing his way through his responsibility. But everything he does, when taken together points more and more strongly to his having a personal agenda very much in line with Lionell’s appraisal. If he doesn’t intend the harm he’s doing I’ll eat this statement — that is, I’ll eat it if anyone is still around to shove it back in my face.

        20

  • #
    JunkPsychology

    Wow…

    Abbott looks to be as big a fool as David Cameron.

    China is not going to sign up for any global climate change deal (or son of Kyoto, or whatever you want to call it).

    Neither is the United States, unless our current president gets himself declared dictator. (Democrats in the US Senate wouldn’t support Kyoto in its day, and Harry Reid couldn’t get domestic cap and trade through the Senate while the Democrats had a filibuster-proof majority.)

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    • #
      Rob JM

      Think on the bright side, Tony may be trying to tie his direct action plan to there being a global agreement which there won’t be!
      Basically he is creating excuses to cut back on spending (get rid of direct action plan) when he gets into office!

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      • #
        Rick Bradford

        That’s how I read it too — a counterweight to Comrade Gillard’s desire for Australia to be a leader in combating climate change through some oppressive and futile regulatory effort.

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      • #
        Maverick

        If that’s the case, that is smart strategy

        40

    • #
      Kneel

      “Abbott looks to be as big a fool as David Cameron.

      China is not going to sign up for any global climate change deal (or son of Kyoto, or whatever you want to call it).

      Neither is the United States,”

      He only promised he’d TRY – if it’s an election promise, the “Big Guys” understand the political reality of the situation and can even agree that it’s a good idea worth investigating etc for the media spotlight. They all know it ain’t gonna happen, but it’s expedient to say “we’re trying, honest!”.

      10

  • #
    mwhite

    “‘ll leave you with Lilley’s demolition of Tim Yeo’s patronising arguments Britain can somehow team up with China to combat Climate Change. It’s long. But it’s good. Well done Peter! You’re a bloody hero. And when Cameron is defenestrated there’s definitely going to be a place for you – as Energy Minister at the very least I hope – in the UKIP/RealConservative Coalition government.”

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100213192/lilley-sticks-it-to-trougher-yeo/

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  • #
    TheInquirer

    The new unit could compete with the BOM and CSIRO and may the best scientists win.

    Don’t agree with the science – just make up your own.

    You have lost it. You can’t even put together a coherent argument for what’s wrong with the current science – just a mish-mash of conflicting half-truths and outright deceptions – but because you so desperately want to believe something else, you’re advocating this. Utter madness.

    But nice to see that people like you, who so long have tried to pretend that the Coalition did not have a CO2 reduction policy, or were going to ditch it on gaining government (leave aside the hypocrisy of that), finally have to face that reality at least. You don’t have a science that represents your beliefs and you don’t have a political party that does either. Outcasts and irrelevants.

    ["You don't have a science that represents your beliefs..." sounds like someone searching for the perfect religion. Science is supposed to define reality by observation and not belief. TheInquirer seems rather confused.] ED

    25

    • #

      Be gentle on him. It’s tough when your ship sinks. So T.I. still can’t find any observations to back up your faith? What’s wrong with current science? I guess you are new here? Peer review. Monopoly science. Grants as advertising. Models that don’t work.

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      • #
        A. Sceptic

        And whose models work the worst?

        That’s right, “skeptic” models have performed worse than any others.

        In the latest scientific development, the heating of the planet has actually accelerated, meaning that your personally-held belief in low sensitivity has just become just that little bit more far-fetched than it already was:
        http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/grl.50382/abstract

        So, we can believe the virtual 100% consensus aong all the relevant professionals, as explained to the layman like myself on the BoM and CSIRO climate change web pages, or we can believe various bloggers who don’t do any researcdh of their own but continue to contradict the science.

        As a genuine sceptic, *I* know which road to take.

        01

        • #
          Mark D.

          And whose models work the worst?

          I think that here among real skeptics, models are not taken as empirical evidence.

          That’s right, “skeptic” models have performed worse than any others.

          Yet you provide nothing as reference or evidence…..
          .
          .

          Your link to a paper authored by Trenberth. Where have I heard that name before……..Still looking for the infamous “missing heat”.
          .
          .

          You provide a worthless paragraph of Argument from Authority.
          .
          .

          and end with:

          As a genuine sceptic, *I* know which road to take.

          Righto: Lemming road. Keep moving along with my blessings A. Septic

          10

    • #
      Streetcred

      WELL HELLO BIGBOY … Ti … I read some of your diatribe over at WUWT a few days back … mate didn’t they skin you and make a lampshade from your ass ! Noticed that you haven’t been back … tell you what, when you do, go with some of your school chums and do a little tête-à-tête thing; the folk there were kinda bored with your drivel, you need to spice it up to gEt them really … you might learn something SC…I…EN…TIFIC.

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  • #

    Abbott may be thinking to gain votes amongst those who still want action on carbon, but instead this could lose him votes amongst those who have actually looked into the science.

    Whatever he thinks he’s doing, this is exactly the wrong time to do it.

    If he’s worried about what people think, he should set up a public enquiry into climate science and let real science explain it to the masses. The whole world is waking up and turning away from this nonsense, trying to hang onto it – however lightly – is plain crazy.

    He could lift the lid off this can of worms and be seen by the public as a hero for saving them from this over-sized political rip-off. Instead he’s going to play along? He’d still be better than Gillard, but we need someone who will take us AWAY from this ongoing MASSIVE waste of taxpayer money.

    I hope Abbott wakes up, and fast, or his win will be short-lived.

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    • #
      Allen Ford

      Abbott will have to get rid of Greg Hunt, first, to demonstrate that he is serious. Greg’s performance on the Bolt Report last Sunday was atrocious.

      Judge for yourself.

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      • #
        Allen Ford

        ANDREW BOLT: Well, talking about figures, I’m still wondering what it’s all for. Professor Roger Jones, right, he’s an Australian, and he’s a warmist.
        GREG HUNT: Mm hmm.
        ANDREW BOLT: He reckons the cut in emissions, that you and Labor both plan, work out, at best, of a cut in temperature of about four-thousandths of one degree by 2100. Four-thousandths of one degree. He’s right, isn’t he?

        GREG HUNT: Well let’s be honest here – any country that just acts alone will have minimal impact.
        ANDREW BOLT: But those – the quantum is about right, four-thousandth of one degree?
        GREG HUNT: I’ll let others make that judgement.
        ANDREW BOLT: But you must – your own plan is $3 billion over four years. I mean, you must have thought, “What am I getting as a consequence of that?” About four-thousandths of one degree.
        GREG HUNT: If we act with China, and the United States, India, and the EU, that can be a positive. But acting alone – and at the moment, the Government is acting in alone, in a way where we have a higher tax than anybody else in the world – is ultimately not effective, particularly when you’re simply sending the emissions, and the jobs, to China, and India, and Indonesia.

        Hunt’s rationale for action seems to be that acting with other countries would magically make the Oz contribution effective, whereas on our own it is not. Crazy logic. Greg, if it’s ineffective, it’s ineffective, period!

        The best one can say is that Greg’s thinking processes are illogical in their ugliness.

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        • #
          Maverick

          And his science logic for a carbon scheme is that “Rupert Murdoch said give the planet the benefit of the doubt”. Did I hear that correctly?

          20

        • #
          RossCO

          And if he acts with China, India and all the other countries the effect would still be stuff all. He probably knows that.. – Never get between a government and a new tax, you will get run over.

          20

        • #
          mc

          Hunts’ words, weasel words, every one of them.

          10

        • #
          llew Jones

          Well what else would you expect from a lawyer? The problem with most politicians is that they are lawyers who wouldn’t, in most instances, have a clue about science so succumb to “expert” witnesses. That in turn, in a lawyer’s mind, leads to a dependency on consensus science. (The same is true for lawyers and that other equally useless “science” called economics e.g. the present lawyer laden, economically incompetent ALP federal government).

          Greg was born in Frankston in 1965,……….

          In 1990, he graduated from Melbourne University with First Class Honours in Law, winning an award for the best final year law thesis. He subsequently won a Fulbright Scholarship to complete a Masters in International Relations at Yale University in the United States.

          Of course a religious adherence to climate warmism is only a part of the reason Gillard’s government should get the boot at the next election. This present federal government is incompetent in managing Australia’s economy. That is the number one reason why a reasonably intelligent voter will vote for a change of government in September.

          30

        • #
          cohenite

          Hunt is an extremist and avid supporter of Agenda 21.

          The NCTCS is really the only party worth voting for on this issue.

          10

  • #
    Manfred

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions

    Dismissing the perfect tax CO2 tax that theoretically enables ANY authority, municipal – national – international, to ‘rationally’ extract money on the basis of CO2 emission – be it from populations or industries appears simply too good to pass up, doesn’t it? This ultimate form of power and control is a political narcotic, the likes of which we may not have seen articulated before.

    Is the populous is still being ambushed, seduced and misled by platitudinous, politicised save the planet ‘science’? I fervently hope not. Let them electorally and urgently sweep all this political garbage into the sewer where it belongs.

    We’re onto them as more are, day by day, hour by hour.

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    • #
      John Brookes

      And there is no doubt that you “skeptics” have good intentions!

      19

      • #
        RossCO

        Good Taxpayers are losing their jobs today thanks to this government’s ‘good intentions’ and all Wayne complains about is how disappointed he is with the amount of tax he is getting.
        He must be also disappointed about his current propaganda corps no wonder he is working on his next public service army of gonski “educators”.

        30

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        And there is no doubt that you “skeptics” have good intentions!

        One more time you’ve got it right, John. Keep it up and you’ll soon be a real skeptic sceptic yourself. :-)

        30

  • #

    Hummm .. election coming up and they do not want to scare the horses…perhaps not yet. Its a little while yet till election day and the opposition do want to hand any ammunition to Gillard & co. “I hope Abbott wakes up, and fast, or his win will be short-lived.” is on the money. Having been pipped at the post last time Mr Abbott is naturally worried, and he is now doing what David Cameron did in 2010 in the UK – pandering to the ‘Green Religion’ activists in the mistaken belief that it is what people want (yeah right)to happen. With the wheels dropping off the whole ‘climate change/global warming scam’ and the MSM now slowly picking this up (Economist etc)”but we need someone who will take us AWAY from this ongoing MASSIVE waste of taxpayer money.” is again spot on. Australia will go down the gurgler (financial) the same way as Europe if he doesn’t.

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    • #
      JunkPsychology

      Cameron indulged in his foolishness in 2010.

      Surely there’s even less of an excuse for anyone who is not a Green to appease them in 2013.

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  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    The new unit could compete with the BOM and CSIRO and may the best scientists win.

    Well, that should bring the trolls out from under the bridge. “Tha’ be fightn’ talk tha’ be.”

    But why not? There are lots of precedents in science. In fact (and the trolls will hate this), science only progresses when somebody tries a new approach to solving an old problem. Or in the case of climate, a perceived problem.

    If we accept the hypothesis that the existing models are predicated on the belief that anthropogenic climate change exists, then starting afresh, with different people, and with a different funding model, is perhaps the only way that we will get through the “cats-cradle” of circular arguments put forward by the wharmistas.

    Of course, all the data used must be put into the public domain, along with details of all the methods used for “error correction”, and all details of the research methods and model algorithms used. This will allow it to be independently verified, as a crowd-sourced project, by the thousands of people who understand how computer models work in industry.

    Of course scientists and engineers in industry are not anointed “Climate Scientists” (may the great Gore smile upon them), so I am apostate for even mentioning it, and we will probably have a new debate about what it means to be a “climate scientist”, but hey, that is long overdue anyway, so bring it on.

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    • #
      ian hilliar

      Actually, science only progresses “one death at a time” as those who cling to their outmoded theories die off. Can you imagine Mann recanting, or Hanson? Mind you , with the forthcoming cuts in staff at the CSIRO it will be interesting to see who is pushed out the door, and who remains. I would assume that the last ones standing will be the union reps.

      20

  • #

    I think this article in the Telegraph has it: Julia Gillard’s carbon tax is hurting families and must be scrapped “The tax, supported by the Greens and the independents, has done nothing to reduce emissions, will do nothing to affect global warming (which has in any case been on hold for more than a decade) but will destroy Australian industry and will hurt Australian families.”

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  • #
    GrahamP

    And on the other side of the world….

    http://www.thegwpf.org/coal-boom-germany-open-coal-power-stations-2013/

    Interestingly the photo caption states that the Neurath station uses lignite. Maybe Tony might like to comment?

    30

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      They are forced to build new coal-fired stations because they have shut down their nuclear stations.

      They shut done the nuclear stations because of fears that they may be damaged by a tsunami.

      I am not kidding. Merkel used Fukushima as her rationale for taking the nuclear stations out of service.

      It must be something in the water …

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      • #
        JunkPsychology

        Yeah…

        What was the most recent tsunami to hit the North Sea coast or the Baltic coast of Germany?

        10

      • #
        GrahamP

        Maybe Merkel is smarter than we think. I thought the nuke power stations were approaching the end of life and would need shutting down soon. So by using the tsunami as an excuse she could get coal up and running sooner without the greenies squealing.

        What was of particular interest to me is the use of lignite, aka, brown coal which the greenies hate even more than black coal.

        10

        • #

          What is encouraging about these new plants in Germany is that they all the new technology USC plants, all with considerably lower CO2 emissions, and all this using brown coal. In concert with the USC technology, these German plants are utilising drying of the coal prior to the burn cycle.

          This is good news for Victoria, which was always going to be somewhat problematic with their access to brown coal only. The problem with that is the moisture content of that Victorian brown coal, which led to considerably higher emissions, also probably due to the advancing age of those Victorian plants, Hazelwood dating from the mid to late 60s, a plant now almost 50 years old and all but time expired.

          With now both of these new technologies, this actually is a solution for Victoria, provided someone has the cojones to approve something like this, so let’s look at one of these new German plants and compare it to Hazelwood.

          Note the much increased power output, and the lower emissions, and a new plant of this nature will have a considerably higher Capacity Factor, hence much more power available for consumption, 52% more in fact.

          Hazelwood 1600MW Nameplate. 11,500GWH delivered. 16 million tonnes of CO2 emitted

          New German Plant 2200MW Nameplate. 17,50GWH delivered. 14 Million tonnes of CO2 emitted.

          Tony.

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          • #

            A plant of this nature is pretty damned expensive though, so that means there’s little chance of it ever seeing the light of day. Going on what it cost in Germany, it translates to $3.4 Billion in AUD, so that puts the kibosh right on that pretty much immediately.

            For that same amount of money just going on what was released here in Australia in the last seven days, a consortium of Pacific Hydro and a Chinese Wind Developer The Shenhua Group, that same amount of money will get you 1500MW of Wind, around 500 to 600 huge towers, probably 2 Wind Plants.

            That would result in just under 4,000GWH of power to Australian Grids, available (on average) for one third of the time that the coal fired plant would deliver its power at.

            See how the one totally unacceptably expensive coal fired plant for the same money delivers 4.4 times as much power for consumption.

            You guess which proposal would have a better chance of being approved.

            Tony.

            Tony.

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            • #
              Mikael Mannhoffen

              it translates to $3.4 Billion in AUD, so that puts the kibosh right on that pretty much immediately

              Why? They were perfectly happy to spend much more than that on mothballed de-sal plants.

              20

          • #
            GrahamP

            Thanks Tony. You have compared the new German plant with one of the older (oldest?) plants in the LaTrobe Valley. How do the newer units at Loy Yang compare?? Graham

            10

            • #

              See, here’s the point here.

              You only need replace Hazelwood, with this German equivalent plant. At the same time as you close Hazelwood, you can also close Yallourn W, a 70′s vintage Plant.

              This new plant would supply more power than Hazelwood and Yallourn, so Yallourn goes for good.

              Loy Yang A and B will still be operational well into the 2020′s as it is, and if the truth is told, they are probably licensed out to 2030 or even longer.

              This new plant would supply more power than Hazelwood and Yallourn W combined, and with Loy Yang A and B, that assures Victoria’s power out until the 30′s.

              Tony.

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              • #
                Chris M

                that assures Victoria’s power out until the 30′s.

                Tony, thanks for that resonance, with its timely reminder of that dark and foreboding decade in human history, the 1930s. Let’s hope our politicians don’t stuff it up as badly in the present century.

                00

      • #
        jorgekafkazar

        “It must be something in the water…”

        I blame the use of mutagenic poison gases in WWI and insecticides/ fungicides used for ivy.

        20

  • #
    Jon Helton

    Just an observation, the liberal party is just right of the ALP – far right from the greens and left of centre. So IMO we are screwed as tax payers no matter who wins. If there was a true right of centre party it would be fantastic. I’m not going to hold my breath. Abbott needs to put his leftard house in order and fast.

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    • #
      Rob JM

      I’m guessing Bob’s Katar’s Aussie party is a little too far right! :)
      Bring back Pauline, not!
      I miss the democrats :(

      11

      • #
        Allen Ford

        We sorely need an Ozzie Nigel Farage, who is not afraid of telling it like it is or of fightening the horses!

        30

    • #
      ExWarmist

      I would suggest it is better to move at right angles to all of the major political parties – towards much smaller government and a much stronger citizen base living in self responsible liberty engaging in voluntary markets…

      40

  • #
    Yonniestone

    The biggest problem people will have standing in that voting booth this September is not the choice of party, but why once again your forced to vote for one that’s as similar or weak as the others.
    It’s all part of being a great “global community” where your traditional Australian power hungry pollie is now looking to be a potential global leader.
    Oh yes Australia will be a useful bargaining chip and their sure the population will be OK as global citizens will all look after each other.
    What could go wrong?

    10

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      Getting rid of your unwanted career politicians by sending them to the UN, is a tried and true strategy.

      New Zealand got rid of Helen Clark by convincing the powers that be at the UN that she might be capable of doing something useful.

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      • #
        JunkPsychology

        The downside to this strategy is that taxpayers in other countries then become responsible for their upkeep…

        20

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        Heheee so true, what is the deal with that?

        They survive in their jobs for as long as they can convince the public that their tax money is being spent wisely. Then they lose an election and they are out. Then they go to an even bigger UN funded agency having just received a vote of no confidence in their ability to manage taxpayer money!

        It’s like mismanaging public funds is practically a pre-requisite for being promoted into the UN! :D

        Now if the UN had a condition that you can’t be employed in one of their top jobs if you lost your last election… yikes, would there be anyone left but the janitor?

        UN RESOLUTION 3294: The council CONDEMNS the choice of Jiffy for mopping the floors, but APPLAUDS the presence of lolcats on the Internets Kiosk.

        UN RESOLUTION 3295: The council DEMANDS a renewal of Kyoto Treaty as it was our favourite anime series.

        30

  • #
    Greg Cavanagh

    All I want to know is what can we do, who do we write to, how do we make our voice heard, how do we lift the lid on this nonsence and expose the blatent stupidity, how do we motivate the nation to reject this new tax on air, how do you make the blind see?

    40

    • #
      gbees

      I wrote to my local candidate yet again … other than storming the Bastille and taking back our country I’m not sure what to do …

      10

  • #
    • #
      GAZ

      Indeed. After the Bolt interview I exchanged a few emails with Greg Hunt, starting by telling him I was disgusted.

      Mr Hunt is a true believer in global warming. In his emails to me he referred to Thatcher, Howard, Bush and Murdoch as his leading lights of global warming. I quoted back a number of references doubting the dedication of these individuals to AGW, including John Howard launching Ian Plimer’s book, but he replied that based on the balance his readings, including the opinion of over 100 Nobel Laureates, he reckons that global warming is a real problem.

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      • #
        Faye

        Having written his university thesis on Climate Change, Greg Hunt is blind and deaf to any opposition to its “science”. He’s the worst person for Tony Abbott to have picked if the Liberals wanted a balanced considered person to be the Shadow Minister for Climate Change. Tony may as well have picked Tim Flannery for the job.

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        • #
          gbees

          And Hunt’s thesis was entitled ……. wait for it ….. hang in there ……. here it comes …. drum roll ………………

          ”A Tax to make the Polluter Pay”

          Hunt has all the signs of being a left wing plant in the Liberal party ….

          20

      • #
        crakar24

        Whats his email address Gaz

        20

      • #
        gbees

        crakar24 his email is … Greg.Hunt.MP@aph.gov.au

        I had an exchange with him about mindless wind farms …

        Here’s his reply …

        “I respect your views. There are different approaches to clean energy but we do not oppose wind energy only better planning protections.”

        30

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        If this is the 100 Greg Hunt was referring to, then it’s a bit light on facts for mine.

        http://www.simedia.org/articles/soc-econ-pol/statement_nobel_winners.html

        You’d reckon Hunt would want something a bit better than this. Who in the hell is advising him? That’s who needs to be brought up to date with the science.

        I despair! If the Liberals don’t get this sorted out they will look as silly as the Gillard rabble in a couple of years.

        10

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          And, I should add, that the statement of the 100 was made 11 years ago. There’s been 11 more years of no warming since then.

          20

    • #
      John Brookes

      Why do the Libs want to take action? Well, because it will be a bad look to have sat by and not done a thing as the world got stuffed up by global warming. They may not want to spend a cent on stopping the warming, but they don’t want to look like stupid heartless bastards. So they’ll put in a token effort.

      16

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        What warming would that be JB?

        You, I and the gatepost know that it hasn’t warmed in 16 years.

        The same little collective knows that the IPCC’s models have got it wrong.

        So just give us the empirical evidence that it’s all driven by CO2 and not that big bright yellow thingy up in the sky.

        There’s a good chap.

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  • #
    ursus augustus

    Sorry, Jo but I am happy with Tony’s utterance some years ago that it is all crap. Realoplitik says that until quite recently the tide was going the way of the AGW alarmists and to stand against it was a big political negative. Look at the trends with even the MSM starting to question AGW as the “warming” starts to run off the rails and the sun says “heeellloooo! – watch this folks”. Why should he open up a front on which to fight? Be patient, be patient.

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    • #
      handjive

      ursus, to ‘open another front’ would seem folly at this time, but, this ‘front’ would be manned & armed with a weapon called “emperical truth.”

      For Abbott to wait until after his election as PM, to break an election pledge on the environment makes him no better than ‘Gillard the liar’.

      Though, we are in a war, and all is fair.
      Morals & fairness went down the drain when the warmists claimed “the science was settled.”

      The question then becomes can one trust a politician known to be lying about an environmental fraud to go back on his word about the fraud after being elected on promoting the fraud?

      Me? I’ve had enough. None of them deserve any encouragement. Informal for me.

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    • #

      ursus, Abbott doesn’t have to say he wants to negotiate a deal — if he really believes “it’s crap” — why say anything?

      He will burn off more support than he would “win over” (former Liberal supporters can always vote National, or Family First, or Shooters and Fishers, or Independent — those parties won’t win the election outright, but they will dilute the Coalition result and power.)

      Shades of Romney… this is not the way to motivate the base.

      70

      • #
        Quack

        ive told you 23 million times to get your facts straight

        10

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Indeed Jo. Why say anything?

        And, he should get Greg Hunt to put a sock in it, too.

        Hunt needs to find a way out of the stupid comment he made on the Bolt Report.He (Hunt) needs to clarify that his position is dependent on a thorough review of the science or the budget or both or something along those lines.

        30

      • #
        John Brookes

        But maybe he doesn’t think its crap, and maybe he isn’t trying to appeal to the base?

        07

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Now you believe in honest politicians too?

          You’re even more delusional than I thought.

          10

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    About twenty years ago I was talking to some old friends and the state of the nation came up.

    Many were unhappy that despite the progress claimed by politicians of a more humane society, we were in fact worse off.

    Social upheaval was rife.

    Theft, burglary, public vandalism, street violence and drunkenness were and still are appalling.

    One person said that what we needed was a War. This was presumably expected to bring people to their senses.

    At the time I was not impressed with this idea but since then have made an assessment of the human carnage

    from the above plus drug use and it may have been that the cleansing effect of a war would have led to less

    damage overall and restored some base to work from, at least until next time. Who knows?

    The main issue is that we are caught in a society that is rolling along out of control and we are trapped, unable to escape.

    Politicians who must pander to media created reality to get elected are unable or unwilling to change direction and all the hard work of past generations is being squandered on vote buying.

    It seems unchangeable.

    I have high hopes that the real person behind the Tony Abbott facade may be a good PM who actually does things but after the disappointment of Barry O. F. I have become unsure about anything to do with politics.

    The Libs need to get real and state categorically that Climate Change is crap or they will lose credibility amongst their supporters.

    KK

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    • #
      Rob JM

      The writing is on the wall, the main issue facing the next government is how to get us out of our huge private debt problem without crashing the economy or destroying the baby boomers wealth with high inflation. Proverbial rock and hard place!
      We need a government too run deficits to build sorely lacking infrastructure but the problem it is too expensive due the union cartels! It would be cheaper and more effective to hire germans to build anything in this county!
      The first thing the liberal government will cut back is environmental spending, aka goodbye green subsidies and direct action plan. The libs have never been friends of the environment remember! Unfortunately we are likely to get Austerity, which will stuff up everything but at least reset things for the long term.

      30

  • #
    RoHa

    “Hey but we do have 22 million people.”

    Supposedly a whole 23 million by midnight. That’s nearly 1.7% of China’s population.

    (Which means that in IQ terms, the top 2% of Chinese outnumber our entire population. The top 25% outnumbers the entire US population.)

    10

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Hi Roha,

      I read once that at one time about twenty years back, there were 200,000,000 or two hundred millions Chinese studying that foreign language: English.

      Makes you think doesn’t it.

      More numbers; I have an interest in Vietnam and have been amazed at the population jump since about 1975.

      From an initial 45 million or so they now number over 90 million and their politics is a curious mixture of pragmatism for the tourist industry , Communism for the ruling elite and repression and a big stick for the average person.

      Back to the land of Oz. Just how are we going to change the response patterns of elected representatives so that we get value and good judgement from them.

      Maybe we need to make an example of a few of the self important thieves who have taken from the Treasury on the flimsy pretext of saving us from CO2 excess?

      Maybe the power of the net will help spread the message but the media is a powerful force still and that needs to be fixed too.

      Its a long slog ahead.

      KK

      20

    • #

      RoHa, looks like you are spot on.
      World CIA “factbook” says 22.3m but Australian ABS says 22,999,739

      I suppose the ABS (we would hope) is more accurate. It’s not like it matters compared to China.

      10

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        Speedy. Earth to Speedy. Do you take requests?
        The 23rd millionth Australian!
        I first imagined a game show format, but I’m sure Brian and John could do a great interview format too.

        20

        • #
          Speedy

          If the ABC were relevant…

          [Scene: A tranquil Australian beach. BRYAN is resting in the sun. He is approached by JOHN.]

          John: And congratulations, sir, you’re the lucky WINNER!

          Bryan: Winner? What you mean?

          John: You’ve just become the 23 millionth Australian.

          Bryan: I’ve just got here… Refugee. Oppression. Suffering. More oppression…

          John: That’s the point sir – as of now, you are the 23rd millionth Australian. All you have to do is pass a few simple tests, convince a few gullible public servants…

          Bryan: And I win?

          John: Yes sir, you win.

          Bryan: What I win?

          John: Housing, social benefits, medical benefits, free entrance for family members, and more. Tax free.

          Bryan: What’s the catch?

          John: How do you feel about voting Green?

          60

        • #
          Speedy

          Andrew McRae

          There you are – pleased to serve!

          Cheers,

          Speedy

          10

  • #
    realist

    The real issue thinking people face is the reality politicians are the muppets of the shadow government. It matters not who we elect, they select. All we get is a rabble of useful, malleable idiots to vote for. A “feel good” event every three to four years called an election is the joke on everyone. Oppositions get voted in by default with an inept and corrupt government being voted out: same horse, new jockey. When both are hopelessly incompetent and “owned”, what then?

    Selected people in the bureaucracies are the real power behind the throne. The MSM are the just conveyer of the messsage: there is no professionalism is mainstream journalism. Most of the punters are dumb sheep who blindly follow in the dust stirred up by the also-controlled MSM.

    The whole AGW scam is about wealth transfer from many to a few. Simple logic says a tax on a trace atmospheric gas to control climate is a flawed concept, but most have no logic processes to engage thanks to the education (indoctrination) system over decades. Many have egos that can be easily bought, climate commissioners spring readily to mind, and establishments can also be won with an endless flow of grants to pedddle the propaganda e.g. CSIRO, BOM, ABC, et al. The entitlement system functions very effectively to capture the seemingly endless supply of rent seekers.

    Until people focus on the underlying cause behind the effect, a lot of effort gets wasted by missing the real target. If it wishes to have real freedom and liberty, a country needs to own the politicians, not private interest groups. When the state owns the populace, the fox is well in charge of the chook house. Changing that system is a big ask. History suggests only revolutions achieve effective change, be they quiet or violent. The former is always preferable.

    40

  • #
    RoHa

    “If the Liberal Party were serious about protecting the environment”

    The Liberal Party is only serious about getting themselves elected. Once in they will pander to the Big Money Boys and the nastier section of the populace. The rest of us will get screwed.

    (Whereas the ALP is, of course, totally and selflessly dedicated to guarding the interests of and improving the lives of the ordinary Australians. Yet somehow we get screwed when they are in power.)

    31

  • #
    Tim

    I believe that Abbott knows this global propaganda barrage is all crap. He was probably well briefed by his advisers some time ago in order to make that statement. However, politicians must play a numbers game and the numbers probably show the vast majority of the populace still believe the MSM-propagated climate change crap-they just don’t want the tax.

    Watch for a tamer ‘pollution reduction’ approach to pacify the joe-sixpacks.

    00

    • #
      John Brookes

      Maybe Tony’s advisors told him that AGW was a real problem, and he should at least seem to be doing something about it. But they also told him that some of the loony right thought that climate change was “crap” and it would be a good idea not to seem to enthusiastic about action, for fear of alienating them.

      08

      • #
        Streetcred

        CSIRO and BoM will say anything to retain funding … for now that’s probably the only ‘official’ source of information that he is privy to. Shame for him.

        10

        • #
          A. Sceptic

          So…CSIRO and BoM are lying about the physical reality of the world in order to get money out of the government?

          And every other science research organisation (seeing as they all agree with CSIRO and BoM) in the world is doing exactly the same thing?

          Just where are CSIRO/BoM telling the truth, and where are they lying?
          Where asre you drawing the line?
          And what mechanism allows all international science organisations to sing the same tune?

          02

  • #
    justjoshin

    We need some kind of actual choice in this country. Regardless of who is elected, we get shafted.

    Labor and Liberals are all Liars. We need some method of holding them to their election promises, as their is currently no repercussions to saying whatever it takes to get elected, and then doing the exact opposite whilst in office.

    The Labor party is the scum that floated to the top of the union movement, and the Liberals are mostly lawyers. Neither is a gleaming example of what the public would want to represent them. Neither party gives a toss about the will of the governed until an election is called, and even then, it is only until the votes are counted. The entire system favours the party that can promise the most to the largest part of the population. This is ulitmately unsustainable, as the more that is promised, the more tax is required to be collected. Governments need to be made accountable for their mismanagement and their lies. If I lied to get a job, I would be fired (and as an engineer is liable for his projects – probably sued). Make it an act of fraud to lie in an election promise (it is a lie told to get a job).

    We need a new form of government. Govern by consent. Sociocracy seems the least offensive form of government that I can find.

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    • #
      RoHa

      Totalitarian, despotic, monarchy* with RoHa as the monarch is the best form of government I can imagine. I can’t promise that it would be inoffensive, though.

      (Thank you, Mr. Gilbert, but NOT tempered with dynamite, if you don’t mind.)

      30

      • #
        Speedy

        Roha

        A mate of mine reckoned that the only bloke to enter parliament with honourable intentions was Guy Fawkes. He could be right.

        Cheers,

        Speedy

        40

  • #
    pat

    Coalition plans for a “Green Army”! give me a break.

    19 April: South Coast Register: Adam Wright: Coalition to resurrect Green Corps
    While on the river Mr (Greg) Hunt announced that his government would reinstate a Green Corps-style program if elected this year…
    A few years ago the current government stopped funding Green Corps.
    Mr Hunt announced yesterday that the Shoalhaven would be likely to benefit from the Liberals’ plan to bring back a beefed up Green Corps rebadged as Green Army.
    “It’s part of a broader program, 15,000 young people working toward improvements in the environment over a five-year period and I think we’ve found a fantastic project,” Mr Hunt said…
    “Green Army will involve projects of $150,000 or more; it’s successive projects over a period of years,” he said…
    http://www.southcoastregister.com.au/story/1443447/coalition-to-resurrect-green-corps/?cs=202

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  • #
    Colin Henderson

    This is what is behind global warming alarmism!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9pD_UK6vGU&feature=share

    21

  • #
    pat

    gizmodo finds space for a story on an edible corn (GMO corn?) that is still only a concept:

    22 April: Gizmodo: Ashley Feinberg: Eat Away Your Carbon Footprint With This Eco-Friendly Edible Spoon
    Comment below article, by Peter Marcus: I guarantee hand washing a reusable spoon is more green than this nonsense that comes in a disposable bag and has to be shipped by rail and truck.
    http://gizmodo.com/5995216/eat-away-your-carbon-footprint-with-this-eco+friendly-edible-spoon

    11

  • #
    pat

    2 down, how many thousands to go? don’t expect to see this on the TV news any time soon:

    22 April: Redd-Monitor: Chris Lang: Green collar crime: Prison sentences for two men behind a UK carbon credit boiler room scam
    On 18 April 2013, in case number T20127038 at Kingston Crown Court, Ian David Macdonald and David John Downes became the first people to be sentenced to prison for their role in a carbon credit boiler room scam. They defrauded UK “investors” out of a total of US$9 million. Macdonald was sentenced to eight years and Downes to four and a half years.
    Macdonald and Downes systematically cold called people, many of them elderly, and pressured them into buying voluntary carbon credits and shares…
    In its statement about the jail sentences, the City of London Police states that it “has been investigating a growing number of suspected carbon credit frauds, where environment investments are being marketed as a safe way to make easy money.”
    “People believe they are buying products that can be traded to companies in a legitimate market when the reality is these credits either do not exist or can only be bought and sold on a voluntary market at a fraction of their supposed value.”…
    FROM COMMENTS:
    Nigel: This is great news. Does anyone know if the UK Police have an investigation into 360 Investment group or Carbon Ex Sarl for the same sort of thing…
    Dennis del Castillo: It is a great news and excellent first step to stop the operation many carbon cow boys around the world…
    http://www.redd-monitor.org/2013/04/22/green-collar-crime-http://www.redd-monitor.org/2013/04/22/green-collar-crime-prison-sentences-for-two-men-behind-a-uk-carbon-credit-boiler-room-scam/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Redd-monitor+(REDD-Monitor)

    22

  • #
    Catamon

    So, the election result it a binary solution set. either the ALP or LNP will form an executive Govt. ALP have a policy in place that the grumpy true disbelievers hate. The LNP have a “policy” (although its a bit like their telecoms one and confused crap) that the grumpy true disbelievers hate. Oh, and they are all lying liars that lie about everything,..right?

    Damn, must be a bad time for that demographic as it seems no-one really wants their vote. Of course they may have simply made the judgement that demographic will preference the LNP above the ALP regardless, or have looked at the various protests and websites over the last couple of years and decided its too small to be worth chasing. Likely the LNP will try and run “independent” candidates on a grumpy true disbeliever platform to harvest the preferences so they will be able to feel good about voting for “true democracy” while helping to inflict an Abbott led LNP on the country.

    212

    • #
      crakar24

      Catamon[gstmen]

      I have lived in the seat of Mayo for many years, Mayo of course being the seat of one Alexander Downer, Downer would win election after election with a large majority and so i could afford to vote for Skippy the, even after his retirement Briggs still commanded an overwhelming majority so i once again voted for Skippy the Kangaroo.

      However the boundaries for this election have been changed and i now find myself in the electorate of Wakefield held by ALP MP Nick Champion by a small majority.

      In my view the carbon tax or any policy designed to lower emissions is not an illness but merely a symptom of a greater illness, the ALP is riddled with a sickness called “give me all your money so i can piss it up against a wall”.

      The coalition is immune to this sickness, they understand the term fiscal responsibility and the understand the root cause of this sickness is the Greens.

      Therefore Catamon[gsttheadults] i will not be voting for Skippy the Kangaroo this time round i will be voting for whoever the coalition put up to run against Nick Champion.

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      • #
        Catamon

        The coalition is immune to this sickness, they understand the term fiscal responsibility

        Really?? Sometime Crackchild, i think you are actually cross posting from an alternate dimension.

        That or you have shares in a Kool Aid company?

        012

        • #
          crakar24

          Cat,

          Do you view yourself as a troll? Seriously do you or do you consider yourself as a person who can influence debate?

          Sadly truth be told you are just a troll and the reason why is because you could have responded with an intelligent reply, for example you could have given evidence as to why the Coalition would not understand the term fiscal responsibility.

          However you failed to do this and merely responded with gibberish therefore you are a troll and i refuse to provide you with any further entertainment.

          42

          • #
            Catamon

            Cracky, just knowing you exist somewhere in the world provides entertainment. :)

            On LNP Fiscal Responsibility:

            Last time they were in they blew the proceeds of the early part of the mining boom on middle class welfare and vote buying. FAIL.

            Then, when the GFC hit in 08/09 it became pretty obvious that they would have gone the whole austerity route that has worked so well in other countries. FAIL.

            They then advocated cutting the stim pac halfway through instead of following through. They seem to have missed the fact that one of its biggest effects at the time was supporting confidence and gutting it would have blown that. FAIL.

            They have been promulgating lies about the funding of the NBN project as regards eventual costs and methodology for so long that i suspect they believe them by now. FAIL.

            The alternative PM has shown himself to be constitutionally incapable of giving a budget reply speech that includes numbers, or actually much about any budget matters at all. I suspect the whole concepts of finance threatens to send him into one of his episodes of shuddering brain-lock so Peta tries to keep him away from them.

            His front bench have come up with little if anything in terms of actual numbers and plans, at least that they are willing to speak about. Except cutting pensions (you dont need the compensation), raiding low paid super (because they have to keep the wealthy in tax breaks), cutting public service numbers. FAIL.

            Oh, and running a scare campaign on public debt when its actually quite low and means we have a functional bond market. I find that ones effect on the credulous particularly hilarious. FAIL.

            Let the LNP in their current incarnation get their hands on treasury and there will be a lot of pain applied to those who least deserve it. But thats ok isn’t it, so long as Gina gets her Northern Special Economic R&P zone??

            18

            • #
              KinkyKeith

              And

              The Laba Parti NEVER, never ever, diverted money to supporters by building? useless crap like School

              Shelters, Desalin$tion Pl$nts and expensive Victorian Highways where lollypop operators were on

              $100,000 pa?

              And

              They never spent the existing $25 Billion in the treasury before borrowing another $250 Billion for us to pay off at our leisure?

              Of course they didn’t, Laba Provides Responsible Government for the people.

              KK :)

              50

            • #
              crakar24

              Cat,

              Wow you really are a troll arent you, when pressed to come up with a legitimate response you produce garbage.

              Last time they were in they blew the proceeds of the early part of the mining boom on middle class welfare and vote buying. FAIL.

              This sounds like bullshit please give examples.

              Then, when the GFC hit in 08/09 it became pretty obvious that they would have gone the whole austerity route that has worked so well in other countries. FAIL.

              This is pure speculation as they where not in power in 08/09, the ALP response was to spend big bucks on useless stuff.

              Roof insulation, building a school shitter when they asked for a gynasium etc.

              Your trolling has reached new heights.

              They then advocated cutting the stim pac halfway through instead of following through. They seem to have missed the fact that one of its biggest effects at the time was supporting confidence and gutting it would have blown that. FAIL.

              And what did we get out of the Stimulus package Cat? A new national highway or two? Perhaps a couple of new industries that would have supplied jobs for generations? A new enterprise on the scale of the snowy maintains hydro system? No Cat we got nothing but debt due to an incompetent government. The stim pac did nothing, just a short term spendy up that lined the pockets of a chosen few.

              They have been promulgating lies about the funding of the NBN project as regards eventual costs and methodology for so long that i suspect they believe them by now. FAIL.

              You should be telling me how good the NBN is not telling porky pies about the LNP………….oh wait you cant can you because the NB is another waste of money, 90 billion and counting.

              You are not just any ordinary troll Cat you are a pathetic one at that.

              52

            • #
              crakar24

              Oh i almost forgot giving teh Greens a 10 billion dollar cheque is fiscal responsibility now Cat???

              Well is it?

              No of course not…….what an idiot you are.

              42

              • #
                Catamon

                Wow, Crakapot, you really do run hard with the Ltd News / LNP line dont you? They certainly have run an effective misinformation campaign over the last few years.

                LoL:

                The stim pac did nothing, just a short term spendy up that lined the pockets of a chosen few.

                Just kept the unemployment rate down, and a lot of tradies in work. Nothing much really. :)

                The problem is that the LNP seem to have fallen into believing their own propaganda that they have been feeding to the economically illiterate like yourself. You believing it is no prob. You’e a credulous idiot who doesn’t have his hands on any of the levers. They are idiots who, thanks to people like you, may have their hands on Treasury levers. Thats a worry.

                19

              • #
                crakar24

                Cat,

                Heres a few more ideas for you, Arse crack, bum crack, cracked pepper, crackerjack, cracks in the pavement, cracked mirror, He’s cracked, feel free to use any of these in later debate.

                Now onto your comment

                Just kept the unemployment rate down, and a lot of tradies in work. Nothing much really

                Yes i accept it kept a few tradies in work but for how long Cat? and what happened to employment after the tradies finished the work for the money spent we did not get much out of it.

                For example if we had built a dam (ignoring Green bans on the topic) imagine how many tradies would have gained employment here and once built imagine how many full time employment would have followed during operation and maintenance for the next 50 odd years and you can even throw in a new power source as a bonus.

                Now apply this logic on any subject matter you like and you get the same thing instead all we got from the billions spent was a few months work for a small minority of the work force and all we have to show for it is a few school halls that did not or will not improve education levels, now she wants to spend even more on education by claiming this will mean higher paying wages for students in the future.

                This is a lie on two counts:

                1, The economy is in tatters there are no high paying wage jobs they have all been exported overseas, mining investment has dried up because of stupid green policies and incompetent government taxation.

                All the green jobs they crap on about are the ones to erect windmills and clean solar panels as everything is fully imported from China the rest are sitting in Canberra twiddling their thumbs sucking in a governmet wage.

                2, She is going to pay for primary and secondary improvements by taking money out of the university budgets and this is somehow going to improve the education levels of Australians?

                You need something more than year 12 now to get a job at Maccas (Golden Arches to Ameicans) you need highly educated engineers to provide the knowledge to build a country (roads dams NBN type infrustructure) not year 12.

                What is the point of raising the passing mark of a year 12 student by a few ATAR’s if they have no seats available at a Uni? I suppose at least under this plan the Maccas worker can give me the correct change.

                Just another stupid policy by the most incompetent government we have ever had to endure

                61

              • #
                Catamon

                many tradies would have gained employment here and once built imagine how many full time employment would have followed during operation and maintenance for the next 50 odd years and you can even throw in a new power source as a bonus.

                Cracker, where would you have liked to build your dam then? Go on, pick a state to concentrate the investment in. And then explain the benefits to everyone NOT in that state.

                One of the objectives (ok, the reasoning for which seems to have gone over your head. much surprisiment!) of the BER was to spread the spending around and get the money to the lowest level of the economy that was possible, quickly. Building a dam simply wouldn’t have cut it on so many levels in terms of meeting the objectives of the stim pac.

                Or would you have preferred the top down model they applied in the US? That worked REALLY well! :)

                16

              • #
                Dave

                .
                Yeah right Catamongst,

                The BER was to spread the spending around and get the money to the lowest level of the economy that was possible, quickly.

                Majority went to UNION controlled building companies (of these 18 went broke – not paying the LOWEST level), 16 are still not approved (Fire, Health, Access, Safety, etc) – great job Catamongst. Almost all, 89% went over budget by 20% or more – the majority of the 50% over budget were union controlled.

                Catamongst – you have no idea what you are talking about with this BER money spread, good grief, a tin shed and a shade sail for a western NSW school, when they needed classrooms??? You silly little man.

                Then lets talk about Minister Midnight Oils effort on insulation, he didn’t even know what R Rating was, and gave money to people with open plan, open ventilation Queenslander style homes with no Air Conditioning or ceiling cavities. You Catamongst are a complete dill. Insulation installation should have been overseen by which body Catamongst? Only one guess please.

                Your comment here:

                LOWEST LEVEL

                completely confirms you are one of Mr. McTurds little followers with always mentioning class, but sitting in your little economically stolen castle,

                You are a very silly, gullible parasite on the rest of Australia.

                51

              • #
                Catamon

                Majority went to UNION controlled building companies

                Actually Dave, it ALL went to State Govt’s to manage the actual rollout, so maybe you would like to take up that issue with them.

                when they needed classrooms

                My daughter school got a new teaching block. Increased the size of the school by about 40% and all the teachers and parents very happy with that thankyou.

                Then lets talk about Minister Midnight Oils effort on insulation,

                That would be the program that brought in standards where there were none before, and actually reduced the rate of fires/ installation would it??

                LOWEST LEVEL, in the context i used the term has nothing to do with some perceptions of class you odious little twit. In context it means at a level where the money is most likely be be spent locally, in the local economy, at shops for local people, by local people.

                17

              • #
                Dave

                Catamongst

                .

                ALL went to State Govt’s to manage the actual rollout

                Wrong again dill, the ALP organised contracts and budget blowouts.

                My daughter school got a new teaching block.

                Funny that, most didn’t and you are only talking of square meter increase dill.

                That would be the program that brought in standards where there were none before, and actually reduced the rate of fires/ installation would it??

                Shows your total ignorance of the insulation industry. Standards were in place, but ALP allowed their own regulations to kill people. Last chance – who is the regulatory body for the Insulation industry? Dill.

                The money is most likely be be spent locally, in the local economy, at shops for local people, by local people.

                Another boring cut and paste from your ALP McTurds Website – or maybe PMOpressoffice TWIT account. Dill.

                Give Jo your address, and I’ll organise some 45 sub-contractors who are really happy with your comments which I have just emailed to them, and they can meet you and Mr. Midnight Oil at an address of your choice.

                31

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      To the Cat,
      you refer to those presently assembled as “the grumpy true disbelievers”.

      I am delighted to have risen in your estimation.

      Regards.

      31

      • #
        Catamon

        Well, grumpy true disbelievers seems to fit the attitudes of a lot of the posters here, and is more polite than some of the other terms in common usage. although i’m not sure politeness is really held in particularly high regard here. Still, I’m sure AngryG55 will be along any minute to lower the tone even further than Yonnistone.

        28

    • #
      John Brookes

      How come you can say it so much better than me Cat?

      27

  • #
    pat

    22 April: Bloomberg Businessweek: Justin Doom: Ignoring Carbon Cost ‘Bad Investment Decision,’ David Blood Says
    David Blood, who co-founded Generation Investment Management LLP with Al Gore, said investors should stop giving money to companies that don’t account for the cost of pumping carbon into the atmosphere.
    “We’re still seeing businesses assume that there’s no price on carbon,” Blood, a former Goldman Sachs Group Inc. executive, said today at the Bloomberg New Energy Finance conference in New York. “Allocating capital to companies that don’t know the price of carbon is a bad investment decision.”
    Deploying a carbon tax, opposed to implementing cap-and- trade initiatives, would be simpler, even accounting for economic differences between richer and poorer nations, Blood said. Politicians in favor of such measures should be more courageous in pressing for them, he said.
    About a decade ago, many thought the capital markets alone could solve energy issues related to climate change, “but I think the lesson from the last 10 years is that that’s not accurate,” Blood said. “We have to move away from the idea that this is a short-term economic question.”
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-04-22/ignoring-carbon-cost-bad-investment-decision-david-blood-says

    21

  • #
    Bob in Castlemaine

    A few years back the coalition then following a “Labor Lite/me too” policy was headed for oblivion, how short their collective memories? If the coalition loses its nerve and panders to the concrete Green, Gaia demographic (which would never support it anyway) it may just end up snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    A good start to shocking a bit of sanity into coalition policy would be to support the planned rally in Canberra on 18 June to tell the coalition that Australia simply can’t afford the great wind power fraud.

    30

    • #
      Catamon

      support the planned rally in Canberra on 18 June

      Is this another one where people get booted from the gallery for shouting senseless abuse, or just a traffic snarling exercise followed by a tea party on the lawn?? You know, with the tasteful signs being held up behind Abbott and him laying his wisdom on the crowd??

      Hmmm….actually, he probably wouldn’t show up since the GTdB set seem a little unhappy with what they laughingly call an Environment policy??

      Betcha Barnaby would though. :)

      29

  • #
    Rocky

    This is clearly a very bad idea. Time to renounce all this stuff that does nothing for the country.

    30

  • #
    Bethjl

    I’ve just emailed the coalition advising them to read this post. I wonder if they will sit up and take note? I am looking for a good independent – they will get my vote.

    40

    • #

      @Bethjl:

      I’ll be doing the same with my federal rep, in the knowledge that he’s aware that all this stuff is crap, even if he sometimes manages not to say so publicly. I’d still do it if the incumbent was steeped in the snake-oil: the “pebble in the pool” approach.
      Here, there’s not a good track record where “good independents” are concerned :-(

      Following up on Pat’s comment, I have no problem with Green Corps being brought back. 200+ trees per person per day made more difference that the more usual six people planting six trees followed by photo opportunity.
      Green Corps also produced some very useful advances in process, eg balancing losses against limited start-up irrigation.

      20

      • #
        Dave

        Hi Martin,

        I just emailed my new candidate for our electorate:

        Told him that they have to get rid of Greg Hunt immediately and all his Green Sprouting Bullshlt, or they will lose my vote. Stuff it, Tony said the CAGW was a load of crap and he was right. But in the meantime Greg Hunt is a soft touch for all this Kyoto signing, green sustainability, growing toward a renewable future, God, I am sick of all this type of rubbish oozing from these politicians mouths. He will be the Green jet setter racing around the world to pump up his ego, and wast billions on himself and parasites that follow this craip.

        Greg Hunt has to go now, and put in some one with a bit of common sense in this position.
        Maybe spend some time on fixing up the economy, getting rid of the billions wasted on handouts, grants, public enquiries, the list is never ending.

        PlSS off all the green leaners and parasites!

        40

  • #
    Faye

    I wrote to Tony Abbott after I heard Greg Hunt.

    That…

    I and my fellow Liberals are at our wits’ end to think someone of your intelligence is kowtowing to the CO2 climate change/global warming “dirty carbon” propaganda.

    And Greg Hunt (and you) want the G20? G8? G4? countries to have a Kyoto-like agreement to reduce the “unsafe” CO2 emissions!?

    It’s enough to cause us to leave the Liberal Party.

    That you go along with the subterfuge of the “science” consensus, makes us sick.

    It’s all frustating and debilitating.

    Please keep up with the latest papers which debunk the gravy train consensus. Empirical evidence – not trumped up computer models – tell you the TRUTH.

    80

  • #
    Hasbeen

    Abbott really had better watch himself.

    One of the things I have come to hate about labor is their blatant vote buying. Tailoring a policy to buy a few votes, hoping it will loose less with “normal” voters than it gains. If Abbott is about to talk ‘bullshit” as I believe he once described global warming, in the hope of holding the vote of a few ratbags, he will have lost me.

    I hope he remembers Pauline Hanson, & the votes she cost them. Well now there is Katter, as an alternative for non Labor voters, who don’t like the Libs promoting stupid policies to buy a few votes.

    In fact I will be listening for a promise to drop the alternate energy policy, before I decide who to vote for.

    If I am going to vote for ratbag policies, I might as well do it with a party that will give me a carbon tax bonus. So watch it Tony old mate, you ain’t there yet.

    The last bloke who tried to ride 2 horses ended up in hospital with a squeaky voice, when the horses went either side of a tree. Best make up your mind, & ride just one.

    20

    • #
      Maverick

      Just love that line “The last bloke who tried to ride 2 horses ended up in hospital with a squeaky voice”. That’s exactly what he is trying to do, but hopefully just through the election campaign so he get the votes of the climate change cult, and then he can let them down not so gently, by saying here is the science its all theoretical bullshit, how about i lower your electricity bills and rubbish tip fees”.

      10

  • #
    Steve

    I think abbotts approach just proves my theory that underneath it all, there is no difference at all between the two major parties – just different cosmetic labels – the agenda stays the same. Now think about what that means….

    Carbon tax will stay under Abbott.

    ETS will stay under Abbott.

    24

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      THIS!!

      I recall it was two years ago at the Convoy that Julie Bishop said the carbon tax would be repealed by the LNP and repeated Abbot’s words that this was a pact “signed in blood”.

      Greg Hunt has said in an email to Rod Stuart yesterday:

      We will cancel the carbon tax.

      I still don’t quite believe it either. They will find some way to reinterpret “cancel the carbon tax” that allows them to leave it operating or substitute some other money-grabbing parasitic scheme in its place, their Direct Futility plan being the most recent candidate.

      Since when did farmers need further incentives to put carbon into the soil if that improves land productivity? How does putting carbon in the soil improve output in the long term if essential minerals are being slowly leached away by harvesting anyway?
      Whatever the answer, it is not obvious to me. It doesn’t sound like a holistic solution. It is a wannabe carbon sequestration “me too” policy. And its a half-baked answer for a problem that doesn’t exist.

      I’m likely voting independent, possibly the No Carbon Tax Climate Skeptics Party if they have a candidate in my area, and after this feeble preference ordering message has been sent on my ballot the LNP will end up with my vote after distribution unless everyone else in my area comes to their senses and votes independent too.

      The only difference between independents and the Party politicians is with the Party pollies you know who’s bought them and the Independent probably hasn’t been bought off yet.

      Doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result is futile.
      They say better the devil you know, but I say vote for a devil not presently known to be a puppet of the Party system that has failed us.

      10

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Andrew McRae,
        I have the same problems with politics as you do, however after meeting and talking with members of the DLP (including John Madigan) at Lord Monckton’s address in Ballarat I’ll say I was pleasantly surprised on how much we agreed on.
        Here’s their website http://www.dlp.org.au/ and it gives a good history of the DLP, even though I did my own research all I could come up with was negative spite from the left which the DLP don’t like much so all’s good!
        But the most important point for me was everyone I spoke to was NORMAL and polite given the subject matter on the night so much so that I have seriously considered joining, which is something I would never have thought possible for me to join ANY political party.

        30

        • #
          Andrew McRae

          They are interesting.
          I find this Distributist philosophy intriguing, have never heard of it. One thing that sticks in my craw is this:

          an emphasis on small business, promotion of local culture, and favoring of small production over capitalistic mass production.

          Well how much production is going to occur if nobody can afford to pay the higher price for the goods? Economies of scale are not imaginary.
          I suspect that is a sticking point of this philosophy, though I may be assuming that all other factors are equal whereas under this system perhaps other factors are different which allow affordable small scale production, it seems a stretch though. One can imagine enormous import tariffs being necessary to protect the high priced local production from Chinese large scale production. Because if people can get the same for less from overseas, they’ll get it. Look at the way Amazon and Kindle have displaced local bookstores. Ideals are one thing but people soon put a price on ideals when they have to make an economic purchase. That’s one thing mass production has going for it: you can’t beat economics, so don’t try.
          A solution offered by the Austrian school to economic malaise is not to get people spending money but to maximize production. Mass production is one way of doing that. By having a larger catchment area of customers and so a larger backlog of orders, mass production can invest in higher quality or higher production with less credit risk.

          I know freedom isn’t free, but it is surely an uphill battle to get the public to accept a higher cost of goods in exchange for more control.

          Anyhow, thanks for the tip.

          20

          • #
            Yonniestone

            Yes I thought that these local business ideas might be out of date but I think the point is giving people the right to make a go of any business and give employees a share of that business to further growth and security.
            If you can’t tell I’m a bit out of my depth on this one LOL so I’ll do some more reading and ask some questions then maybe come up with a better explanation worthy of JO’s site.
            Thanks for the reply. :)

            20

  • #
    MudCrab

    The problem with ‘environmental issues’ is they are a boom time problem.

    When you are well off, paying your bills comfortably and just upgraded your flat screen, the animals look cute and furry.

    When you are starving to death the animals look like lunch and the old growth forrest looks like something useful to cook the lunch on.

    If you want to help the environment you need to help the economy first.

    The other point is that while there is nothing wrong with branching out to new supporters, but you can never do that at the risk of alienating your current fans. It would be like the AFL big wigs deciding to pick up some of the NRL fans by adding a cross bar to the goals.

    “See? A cross bar? Just like rugby. They’ll love it!”

    Actually no, what you would be doing is annoying the existing fans and making outsiders laugh at you. Lose/Lose.

    Stick by your prime principles. People may not always like them, but at least they know what you stand for.

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    • #

      Great post MudCrab. Imagine proposing to flatten Queensland’s vast rainforests to grow palmoil for so called biofuels. Watch the Green fury. Here in NZ we once had a Green Party leader who espoused having a biofuel component in our petrol but whose party wasn’t happy about the importation of palm kernel husks (a bi product) into NZ as animal feed. Stupid is as stupid does and like Forrest both meaning and message are lost.

      10

  • #

    Need I remind people of what was said by Britain’s most popular Prime Minister, James Hacker?

    It’s the peoples’ will. I am their leader; I must follow them.

    IOW: As long as the people believe one thing, they must be humoured.

    It should go without saying that if one wants to be elected as leader, one should run the election campaign as though one had already won the election.

    What makes this present situation much more difficult for those in “the ranks” of the LIberal who want to fix the real problem, is that the money-movers are very much in favour of not only preserving the flow of money down the gurgler – as they catch their derivatives, percentages and fees; they want more of it.

    Normally, there’s not enough time to educate the population on a complex issue during an election campaign, but this 6-month phoney campaign should provide ample opportunity to educate; to change minds. There should be enough time to convince ALP candidates to vote Liberal/National; if Julia hasn’t already done so.

    So why the engagement in distractions? Is that the sort of thing we can expect of Tony Abbott after an election?

    21

  • #
    Safetyguy66

    Well I did say a while back that Tony is softening up his rhetoric ahead of explaining why he wont dump the carbon tax. The budget deficit has all but locked the CT in I believe.

    21

  • #

    I saw this corruption in Europe. A few big donors across politics get a taste of rent seeking, heavily subsidised wind farms or whatever, and discover they like it – loads of cash for no work on their part.

    So they start applying pressure to keep the money flowing – making big donations to politicians who say the “right” things about climate, on both sides of the fence, creating pressure for more climate alarmism.

    I really hoped Abbott was going to stand up for people on this issue – if he keeps up this kind of nonsense, I might make a mistake on my vote ballot.

    40

  • #
    Streetcred

    I have a suggestion, there are some VERY smart people here and in the country who are “the right stuff” climate scientists.

    This passage below, courtesy of sHx at Bishop Hill, is attributed to Alan Ramsay of the Sydney Morning Herald, many years ago:

    Back in the 1970s, when qualitative voter research was just starting to get a stranglehold on the political process in this country, the Labor Party … circulated a confidential paper entitled “Some Respectful but Blunt Suggestions on TV Appearances by Labor Spokespersons”. It offered a series of political ground rules, all of them designed to influence what it saw as the 15 per cent of swinging voters “who show any willingness to change,” including that such voters were “basically ignorant and indifferent” to politics and voted “on instinct for superficial, ill-informed and generally selfish reasons”. The only communication pattern that offered “the slightest chance of success” in reaching these voters was “the minimum number of thoughts repeated the maximum number of times, and when you are sick of saying it, they’ll be just starting to notice it”. While no politician would openly acknowledge such rank cynicism, millions of dollars are now spent every election by all parties on the very premise that these are exactly the voters who determine electoral outcomes. It is also exactly the sort of disciplined if mindless attitude of all parliamentary behaviour these days.

    If every day a concise summary of sceptic talking points debunkings were to be emailed to every LNP MP including Abbott and particularly, Hunt, we might just get them to have another think … afterall, they respond only to “swinging voters” so using their own psychology, let’s make’m swing baby !

    60

  • #

    I’m tempted to target the LNP MPs in the most valuable swing Labor seats and make it very clear that they can’t count on the votes they need for that seat unless they change their tune. If the unions can ‘mobilise’, then why not us ‘realists’? If TA thought he actually might not get a decent majority, then he might deal..? Downside though – if TA doesn’t change tack, whats worse – ALP getting another 4 years or LNP carrying on with dumb policy?
    Shame there’s not the Aus equivalent of the UKIP..

    20

  • #
    Dennis

    The debate is not a problem but three more years of socialist economic vandalism and fiscal foolishness will end in buckets of tears and hardship not known since the Great Depression. Prof Ross Garnaut has joined the chorus of commentators warming that the federal budget is in an enormous mess.

    10

  • #
    Backslider

    Last 30 years were the warmest in the last 1,400 years

    More desperation http://news.mongabay.com/2013/0421-hance-continent-climate.html

    A key aspect of the consortium effort was to engage regional experts who are intimately familiar with the evidence for past climate changes within their regions

    So now its down to anecdotal evidence….. go and ask the local Shaman, he knows the exact temperature on the 5th of May 620BC.

    30

    • #
      Backslider

      The cooling — between 0.1-0.3 C (0.2-0.6 F) per thousand years

      Google Hosted News

      They are kidding, right? How in the World can 0.1-0.3 degrees of cooling over a thousand years be statistically significant??? Bunch of monkeys…..

      10

  • #
    Dave

    .
    Here’s another ALP joke,

    ‘Toorale Station’ in Bourke was sold to the NSW (small portion) and the Federal Government in 2008 for $28 million. It consists of 91,383 Hectares of land (mainly pastoral) and of this about 2,100 Hectares of irrigated agricultural land. Food production (beef and crops) were important in supplying local, Australian and Export markets. Why did the Penny Wrong buy this, for carbon credits, and water buyback for the Murray Darling Water saving policy. So whats happened since 2008?
    1. Nothing at all.
    2. Zero production of any food (cattle or crops)
    3. Dams to release water back to the Murray darling? No! It will cost $79 million for this?
    4. Income generated – Zero.
    5. Portion now given to national parks etc.
    6. Massive weed invasions occurring – costing money of boundary propertys to resolve.
    7. The then water minister Penny Wong said at the time the infrastructure decommissioning plan would be ”implemented as soon as possible”. Now – nothing.
    8. The loss of food production from this property alone is criminal.
    9. Tony Burke – says its taking longer than usual?? Idiot.

    The first thing Mr. Greg Hunt can do is the following:

    “Toorale Station” – which is now broken into a 54,385 ha State Conservation Area and the 30,866 ha Toorale National Park – should be returned to full agricultural production.

    The lease payments plus the economic benefits to Bourke would be huge.

    Then on the ABC radio I heard that a bunch of ecologists are going to map the property, record ALL the plant and animal species and go home. 91,000 plus hectares, shlt – how many are going, another junket for the Green parasites. All in two weeks, I don’t think so, this is just a grab for last minute money for favours in September. End of April, they’ll miss half the number of reptiles.

    The only snakes out there will be them.

    20

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Dave

      Compared to that we only have minor problems with Government sponsored “Ecology”.

      Our local “State Recreation Area” here in Newcastle has become overgrown with every type of weed and useless undergrowth imaginable so that even the local bush turkeys hate they place.

      The area is impenetrable and a disgrace but maybe the idea all along was to make sure no one could walk there.

      What greenies would ever want to walk in the bush?

      KK

      30

      • #
        Dave

        KK.

        So true, what Greenies ever have walked in the bush?
        They wouldn’t know the difference between a Lomandra and a gecko.

        10

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Dave

          I’ve seen geckos in Hawaii, I think, and in the pacific but what the hell is a Lomandra?

          Locally we have green tree snakes, red belly blacks mainly but I saw a small diamond python a year ago.

          Lots of lizards and stuff. Thank god the browns are not local.

          KK :)

          20

          • #
            Dave

            KK

            Lomandra longifolia toughest little plants around.

            Was up north just recently – had the pleasure of a 2 meter western brown slither past the car. Beautiful creatures.

            10

            • #
              KinkyKeith

              Maybe it’s just that I’m more familiar with blacks which are predictable.

              I’ve heard stories about browns that say that they are a bit aggressive?

              Thanks for the graphic. It’s nothing like the thing that infests our local “State Managed recreation Area”. The local thing is full of little one centimetre long seeds that stick to everything. I used to call it paspalum, but it doesn’t look like the pictures on the net.

              I think I should be able to pick the difference now between Lomandra and Geckos but am not sure any greenies would.

              KK

              10

    • #
      Tim

      Dave; check out the UN Agenda 21‘Wildland Project’ which places massive areas of land under restrictions called “conservation easements”, “scenic byways”, “protected areas”, “biosphere reserves”, “wildlife refuges”, etc.

      What is not sustainable Under Agenda 21: Grazing of livestock, ploughing of soil, building fences, industry, single family homes, paved and tarred roads, logging activities, dams and reservoirs, power line construction, and economic systems that fail to set proper value on the environment.” UN’s Biodiversity Assessment Report.

      (You could ask Penny about more government control and less human freedom as a policy agenda.)

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    Dave

    Which would you prefer?

    1. Greg Combet?
    2. Greg Hunt?

    Actually they are cuttings off the same parent stock, and as cuttings go, they will produce the same outcome in plant terms.

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      Dave

      .

      Forgot to add the brilliant Bill Shortens Mum or what ever she is now, here spreading the CAGW word of the IPCC on behalf of the ALP:

      Australian Governor General telling PNG about sea level rise.

      The sooner this group of money seekers of CAGW are evicted the better. The new Governor General should be Joanne Nova.

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        KinkyKeith

        Dave

        You may remember that that distinguished leader had a history in the former Queensland Government business.

        Shameful.

        Compared with that talking up sea level rises is minor stuff.

        KK

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          Dave

          .
          Rudd & Rice

          Not very nice. Both have been dishonest. Seems they have taken a leaf out of Gillards book.

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      Safetyguy66

      Say Greg Hunt 5 times fast, last couple sound closer to the truth.

      As for Combet, well he just is one.

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    Sam Geoghegan

    The misconception is that either party has a backbone.

    Government revenue is government revenue, and while the coalition may feign opposition to Labor policies, it’s in their best interests to preserve income streams; whether that be Labor once decrying the GST, or LNP impersonating a conservative position on the carbon tax.

    My advice to everyone is not to participate in the undignified practice of voting, otherwise you’re a part of the problem.

    Representative democracy has turned citizens into brain dead zombies. When people are prepared to vote for the most despicable people, simply because the system holds you captive to the lesser of two evils or you’re too stupid to think beyond partisan group think, you’re culpable of the degenerative mob behaviour, as those you place your sanction to.

    Abbot is not conservative and Australia is a socialist democracy.

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    Sam Geoghegan

    At least two people here suffer from Stockholm syndrome.

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    GregS

    Has Alan Jones heard about this yet? He’ll go ballistic! :)

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    Almost no politician these days seems to have the courage to lay their true convictions out on the table and be judged accordingly these days. It’s almost as if politics suppresses their morality. I suspect both your Abbott and our Key are both quietly skeptical but don’t have the courage of their convictions to stand up, hopefully waiting for the consensus to swing conveniently their way, safe in the knowledge that they took no firm stand on which they could be called out. Ronald Reagan once made the observation that politics is the second oldest profession but closely resembles the first.

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      Eddie Sharpe

      Do we get leaders anymore. Or is it just illusionists who can create an consensus and hold it together long enough to get elected. Getting elected is everything.

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      Safetyguy66

      Totally true. Its like Julia with the gay marriage thing. How does an atheist justify being anti same sex relationships ? Answer, they convince themselves there is more votes in it to sit on the fence. Do they care that it basically renders them completely void of credibility….? not a bit.

      Same with climate/environment policy. As long as polls keep showing 40-50% of voters are worried about the climate, they will keep pretending to do something to lock in those votes. If anyone is to blame, its the general public for their deep and abiding general ignorance.

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    Robert of Ottawa

    What are they thinking? Looking for an excuse to keep the energy tax? Someone should give their head a shake.

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  • #

    Watching the Libs stumble about trying to be Green reminds me of the days when Downer would try to compete with Keating over the arts. He’d wave a sorry scrap of paper at journos and say: “Look, I have great policies for the arts. Please, don’t run away, I’ve got ballet here and all kinds of arts stuff…” Meanwhile, Keating would be poncing around with the Boyds or some symphony conductor or the latest Booker winner. Whose policy was going to get the nod from Big Smug, the Fairfax/ABC nexus?

    The Libs are better off doing an Askin – if they can’t do a Menzies – and just give the bird to all the luvvies and greenies. The votes they lose are they votes they were never going to get.

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    Maybe we should suspend judgement on this report, given the source. I’ve just looked through the Business and Climate Spectator. It’s as silly green rag as any I seen…and I’ve seen the Guardian!

    An example: if we painted the world’s roofs white we’d save a billion tonnes of carbon dioxide. (“What are we waiting for?”) There’s also a report that electricity demand is slumping. Gosh, prices through the stratosphere and the demand goes down. How many investigative and economic journalists were needed to change that particular lightbulb? Next they’ll be telling us that quadrupling the cost of refrigerant gases is having an effect on food businesses.

    I have a question. Are there any adults left out there in journalism? Hello, adults? Hello?

    Adults?

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    eliza

    If Abbot is going to do this you might as well vote for Gillard again. This again points out to an abysmal lack of science education in Australia. Maybe Australia should just stick to Tourism and coal exports and forget education at this stage. In 10 years you can take them all to court.

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    lurker, passing through laughing

    It asppears the political/academic class are heavily infested with AGW junk talk. Perhaps there is a correlation between the striking lack of real optimism and the obsession over CO2/climate?
    Our ‘leaders’ seem to have run out of ideas on how to do big things, and even small things, well. They have frittered away $trillions worldwide on foolishness. The near universal reliance on deficits around the world creates a capital drought, even though governments have manipulated % rates to keep them artifically low.
    Carbon tax must be very attractive to those of limited ability and creativity.

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    Greg House

    “A government that was serious about the environment would use some saved funds to set up an entirely new climate science research unit — one that aimed at predicting the climate (inasmuch as it is possible). Better climate models would help farmers, …”
    ===============================================

    Seriously? I can’t believe it. :shock:

    Organized “climate science” should be closed as soon as possible and remain closed for at least 70 years.

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    Backslider

    The sad fact is that we have a distinct lack of real scientists in any field. When people worship idiots like Stephen Hawking, Richard Dawkins and James Hansen, what hope is there?

    Its all about clever language and sleight of hand, not science.

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      JFC

      idiots like Stephen Hawking, Richard Dawkins and James Hansen

      Wow, idiots like Stephen Hawking?! Where does that leave you Backslider? [snip. Where does that leave your faith JC?] ED

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        KinkyKeith

        I read one of Stephen Hawking’s books.

        A disappointing experience after expecting some illumination of the new physics.

        Most of the book was at High School level and it was definitely not a work I would recommend.

        Perhaps he had a ghost writer or perhaps more likely, he is specialised in one tiny microscopic area of

        Physics and not to good on “the other stuff”?

        KK

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        Backslider

        JFC – Stephen Hawking is a philosopher, not a scientist.

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          Backslider

          I might add, so are the other two, plus many others.

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            A. Sceptic

            Doesn’t make any of them idiots, which they clearly aren’t.

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              Backslider

              Well, that really depends on your definition of “idiot”.

              Is a successful scam artist brilliant or an idiot? There can be two different answers to that question, depending on your definition.

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            Backslider

            BTW JFC – I am happy to see that you accept that both Hansen and Dawkins are idiots :-)

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    Drapetomania[eptma

    “The tax, supported by the Greens and the independents, has done nothing to reduce emissions, will do nothing to affect global warming (which has in any case been on hold for more than a decade) but will destroy Australian industry and will hurt Australian families.”

    Yes..but it helps makes pseudo green cut outs like John Brookes+the+Inquirier feel better..
    The old green cognitive dissonance..
    The fact that they live in a house powered by coal and drive cars powered by fossil fuel..is neither here nor there to post modernist useful idiots.
    But you know modern greens..Hilarious Hypocrisy.

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    NoFixedAddress

    Stuff all the politicians……

    Forget about a referendum to include councils in the Australian Constitution……

    Let’s have a referendum to include the actual constituents such that no government can introduce a bill without 75% of all parliamentarians agreeing….

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    • #

      I have some strange ideas…

      One of them is to require those voting in favour of a bill in parliament to first pass a written comprehension test on the bill, it’s objectives and means; and how it will impact all of Australia. Essays of 2000+ words addressing key points. Members may not delegate the writing of the essay to their staff but may refer to their staff’s research; to be appended as addenda. Those producing “duplicate” essays will be required to resubmit, until their essays differ substantially.

      Essays for those voting against, or abstaining from voting on the legislation may submit essays; to be assessed in the same way as those in favour.

      Essays to be published via the APH web site and Hansard.

      A Bill will not be “passed” following a majority vote in favour, until all essays supporting the Bill have been accepted as the individual work of the Member of Parliament.

      The electorate needs to be assured that their representative understand the proposed legislation.

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        KinkyKeith

        Bernd

        There is a case of a local MP still sitting, so I’ll keep this sort of low key, who achieved public fame and some notoriety when he was caught getting a little “HELP” with his submitted work.

        What I’m saying, is that if we adopted your great idea, possibly many years may pass without any enacted legislation.

        KK

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          What I’m saying, is that if we adopted your great idea, possibly many years may pass without any enacted legislation.

          You’ve seen right through my plan! :-)

          The objective is actually to make the process of legislation more “selective” so that laws that actually need to be made are made. If a government fails to make those laws, they spend a very short time in office.

          As a side benefit, voters get to read their representative’s individual, considered opinion regarding a particular bill online. They can (approximately) tell if their representative has understood the bill for which they voted or, OTOH, if e.g. their representative has rejected the bill because its language was impenetrable.

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            KinkyKeith

            Whatever happens above all we do need more accountability for actions taken

            within the protective legal shield of being ” In Power’.

            KK

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    Tony Abbott needs to remember why he is Liberal leader. There was a grassroots campaign against the member for Goldman Sachs largely over his support for AGW. The coalition got around 400,000 voters sending in letters.
    He’ll be a useless wimp like Campbell Newman though.
    Newman didn’t fire nearly enough public servants quickly enough nor did he roll back Bligh’s nanny state which would have cost very little to do.

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    pat

    Mike Borgelt -

    so glad u brought up the 400,000:

    Dec 2009: SMH: Paul Sheehan: The Liberal base had already voted
    Malcolm Turnbull had long languished in the opinion polls, but now his party’s grassroots had mobilised against him. ”I have never seen anything like it,” said Senator Concetta Fierravanti-Wells when I called to ask why she publicly abandoned Turnbull’s leadership on Friday. By yesterday afternoon her office had logged almost 8000 emails and calls opposing the proposed emissions trading scheme.
    By my rough estimate, more than 400,000 such emails and calls have been sent to the 99 federal Coalition members over the past two months.
    It is an estimate Senator Cory Bernardi, from South Australia, thinks is conservative…
    Turnbull: ”Alan (Jones), I can tell you something – there is no way that I could win, or indeed I could conduct a campaign, based on doing nothing on climate change.”
    Jones: ”You’re not doing nothing on climate change.”
    The discussion was interrupted by a break, then Turnbull got testy:
    ”OK, well, let’s just be serious, let’s just be really serious, deadly serious here. One of the major banks, one of the major lenders to those generators came and saw me the other day and urged me to reach agreement with the Government on the scheme, to move amendments along the lines that I have already proposed, which will ensure that the generators are properly compensated, and they said we need to get this scheme settled so that we have sufficient certainty going forward to enable ourselves to keep lending to that industry.
    So, you know, I am sorry to inject a bit of commercial reality into this discussion, but that is the very issue you are talking about.”…
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-liberal-base-had-already-voted-20091201-k3pr.html

    the question is how to mobilise that 400,000 & more before a new election in September to demand the Coalition tell the truth about the CAGW scam for the sake of the scientific method, if nothing else?

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    E V

    Well, it’s never realy been about the science so what will the LNP bring us? Will be a form of the Canadian scheme, CARIP or will it be a full blown ETS GHG control scheme that is being pushed by the Socialists & bankers, either way there will be a stick to the head with costs attached. Those little hitlers in the LGA’s are going to love having this new found power/funding method.
    http://climate-l.iisd.org/news/wri-iclei-c40-invite-cities-to-pilot

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      KinkyKeith

      Hi EV

      Glad you mentioned the LGA’s.

      A sources of annoyance to anyone who hates being ripped off.

      We pay for local government through the nose and all we get is holes in the road. buckled concrete in the footpaths and a promise of a Golden future, not for us but our Grandchildren, IF we stop farting and producing CO2 and methane.

      KK

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    el gordo

    Watched the Bolter make a fool of Hunt on Sunday and I became determined to write on my ballot a ‘pox on both your houses’ at the election.

    They don’t seem to understand the meaning of mass delusion… probably because they are equally deluded.

    Is there a politician out there who has the balls to say our star was responsible for global warming last century. I’ll vote for him.

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      A. Sceptic

      Good. More donkey votes from your demographic can only improve the eventual result.

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        KinkyKeith

        When a wound has been aseptic for a while and is deprived of oxygen the bacteria start to dye and the whole septic mess starts to stink real bad.

        Then you gotta amputate to get rid of the stink.

        From now on your blog name shall be :

        :

        :

        Gangrene!

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    [...] http://joannenova.com.au/2013/04/australian-conser…    The truth is the warmest or greens don’t give a f@#$ about the truth. All the Warmests care about is feeling” good about themselves for saving the earth from “climate change”. Admitting they were wrong would make them feel bad about themselves.  The poor can just “eat cake”. Admitting the truth would just upset all the acolades, money and power the elites in the Green movement get from their false belief in Climate Change. Power,money and accolades from their peers in the elite Green movement is what counts. Affordable and reliable power from fossil fuel for the people that would raise them up from poverty is forbidden.   Sickos. [...]

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    el gordo

    ‘Donkey voters vote the way candidates appear on the ballot paper. Sometimes the term “donkey vote” is incorrectly used to refer to an informal vote (submitting a blank or defaced ballot paper) although this use is not included in major dictionaries.’ Wiki

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    Bush bunny

    Last year I responded to the libs over carbon tax problems, and the response was we are also committed to cutting greenhouse gases. I replied, ‘It isn’t greenhouse gases that are the problem, it is that even cutting carbon emissions and having carbon credit tradings, it has no effect on the worlds’ climate or AGW. I was removed from her email list.

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    KinkyKeith

    That’s the reply I got from Greg Hunt.

    We are cutting emissions.

    Stupid?

    KK

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    jefftfred

    KinkyKeith,
    That’s about the same response i received from Shadow Minister Hunt, on querying the coalitions climate related policies via his office.
    Greg Hunt’s thesis was on “making the big polluters pay”, admittedly it was to do with real pollution, toxic substances etc., but it appears to have since morphed into the dreaded carbon dioxide “pollution”.
    The information that Jo has posted is just the recent tip of the (melting) iceberg, with statements coming from the Shadow Minister-
    ABC Reporter Leigh Sales 3/12/2009 – Greg Hunt discusses shadow climate policy
    The Age, Reporter David Roe, 16 Aug 2012 – Coalition ready to back Kyoto 2
    To quote Joanne’s sub heading – “What were they thinking ?”
    -
    An interesting document by Graham Williamson “Agenda 21: Politicians shutting the debate down”,
    Response of the Shadow Minister for Climate Action, Environment and Heritage To Agenda 21 (ie Greg Hunt)
    As we would realise, Climate Change and Agenda 21 had it’s birth (spawned ?) at the Earth Summit – Rio 1992
    The document is very well referenced, and worth the time to check out links
    http://www.conscious.com.au/docs/letters/GregHuntAG21Rev.pdf

    JT

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    Mattb

    “If the Liberal Party were serious about protecting the environment”

    That’s a MIGHTY BIG IF!

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