JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Australian Filmmaker knocks back Al Gore’s request for firestorm footage

Good on you Chris Tangey.

Chris Tangey captured moving images of a dust storm picking up a bushfire.

He’s turned down some income to stand on his principles.

Al Gore wanted to use the awesome shots of a dust devil picking up a bushfire, which happened on Sept 11, 360km southwest of Alice Springs at Curtin Springs Station. When Al Gores office asked for rights to use the footage, Tangey knocked him back. He felt its use in a climate change setting would be “deliberately deceptive” and that it was “difficult for me to imagine a fire event less relevant”.

“I am aware that you may have missed the reporting on the very localised nature of this firestorm,” Tangey wrote. “However, in any case, I am confused as to why you would offer to buy a licence to use it at all unless you had conducted even elementary research which might indicate that this Mt Conner event had direct linkage to global warming/climate change.”

Joel Lisonbee, manager of the NT Climate Services Centre, agreed and said he would not link such an event to global warming. “This event was better described as a dust devil within a fire. Most of us have seen dust devils and know they are not uncommon,” Mr Lisonbee said.

“You need hot, dry conditions but you get those in desert-like conditions everywhere, regardless of global warming.”

From The Australian (paywalled I expect).

Al Gore wanted to use the footage in powerpoint presentations for up to five years.

People wonder why there is a point in discussing the science when those who foist “The Science” on us pay no attention to the data. But in a thousand small ways, it matters. In this case, one filmmaker in the distant Australian outback understood that there was no science involved, and would not allow his work to be used to deceive people. Gore has plenty of other scary footage, but Tangey’s scored a news story reminding the world that Al Gore is not concerned about the science, only about PR.

 

The youtube of Chris Tangey’s extraordinary footage.

h/t Climate Depot

 

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.3/10 (120 votes cast)
Australian Filmmaker knocks back Al Gore's request for firestorm footage, 9.3 out of 10 based on 120 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/94udtd3

173 comments to Australian Filmmaker knocks back Al Gore’s request for firestorm footage

  • #
    pattoh

    I guess too many people have heard that Polar Bear numbers are OK if not increasing & Al needs a change in fortunes.

    Perhaps he could poach John McTernan from our PM to help with the spin.


    Report this

    351

  • #
    Crakar24

    Well good on Chris for putting principles ahead of profit i guess thats the difference between skeptics and the warmbots we have principles.

    By the way for those who do not know the area all that well Mt Connor is on the way to Ayres Rock it is a Mesa (table top hill) in the middle of a arid desert. Being a desert it gets hot really hot and anyone who thinks this dust devil is a “sign” of climate change is either a complete idiot or a con artist.

    For example

    Al Gore is a con artist

    People that believe him loike JB, MattyB, Catamon(gst the pigeons) and Stupid Horse etc are the complete idiots.

    Now before i get snipped let me clarify they are either complete idiots in believing Gore or they accept that Gore is a con artist but yet still believe in the bullshit he peddles.


    Report this

    552

    • #
      sillyfilly

      Gore blimey, what was he thinking?

      But if you read the following:

      Man Made Global Warming Disproved
      Joanne Nova and Anthony Cox
      The theory that failed

      one might have the same questions on unprincipled scientific idiocy.


      Report this

      231

    • #
      Bungalow Bill

      Well good on Chris for putting principles ahead of profit i guess thats the difference between skeptics and the warmbots we have principles.

      G’day Crak,

      “We have principles” ??????

      You can’t be serious.

      So you and Peter Miller, avowed members of the Anti AGW cabal, despisers of anything green, mockers of renewable energy, proudly install solar electricity panels on your roof to take advantage of the generous feed in tariff.

      “We have principles” yeah sure thing bud, they just change when money is involved.

      Nothing like being a bit flexible.

      Gore may or may not be a “Con Artist” but as long as my arsehole points to the ground you’ll be a hypocrite.


      Report this

      129

      • #
        Mark D.

        Oh Bunghead, so you think it is morally wrong to leverage stupid government subsidies to protect oneself from the inevitable inflation caused by them?

        Sorry Skeptics on average, aren’t that stupid.

        You on the other hand are.


        Report this

        172

        • #
          Farmer Doug

          so you think it is moraly wrong to

          Yes
          That’s just what Al is doing.
          Doug


          Report this

          00

        • #
          Bungalow Bill

          Hi Mark,

          “Bunghead” – drole, tres drole Mark: you’re not an impoverished comedian are you?

          Oh Bunghead, so you think it is morally wrong to leverage stupid government subsidies to protect oneself from the inevitable inflation caused by them?

          Only when you claim people like Gore are in it for the money. It’s called hypocrisy.

          Sorry Skeptics on average, aren’t that stupid

          I’ve seen some of your posts here: that’s enough to prove your statement incorrect.

          Cheers!!!


          Report this

          120

      • #
        Crakar24

        Buffoonary Bill AKA Bung head,

        So you and Peter Miller, avowed members of the Anti AGW cabal, despisers of anything green, mockers of renewable energy, proudly install solar electricity panels on your roof to take advantage of the generous feed in tariff.

        The above quote merely highlights your ignorance of your surroundings, firstly who the f….is Peter Miller and what has he got to do with anything?

        Secondly, in one sense you are correct i do despise renewable energy, for example i do not believe we should spend billions of dollars on wind mills that do not work and in fact pay the owners substantial amounts of money when they dont, i do not believe we should offer feed in tarrifs on roof top solar power and in fact you blithering idiot i do not get a rebate as i do not have a smart meter.

        It is not i that has been seen off by this green madness it is you you stupid fool. It was not i that marched through the streets demanding my government apply a punitive tax that accomplishes nothing.

        And yet here we sit with a tax system that does nothing but raise the cost of a commodity that no one can do without, we have a renewable system (wind, solar) which is solely designed to produce a monetary profit to the investors and where does this profit come from Buff?

        Let me offer up a few examples, if the solar industry was not about money then why give rebates? Why not just stick to the old analogue meters, i generate my own electricity, i dont use coal powered stuff.

        The problem with [snip] people like you is that you still dont understand that there is no viable option to coal (wellmaybe uranium or thorium but [snip] wont allow that) so a government pushed on [snip] people like yourself have to do something……..but with no viable option what do they do? Simple they lie, they tell the stupid that they will tax them more to save the planet and the stupid believe.

        The reason why i got panels is because my electrickery bill was the highest in the world, the highest in the world because of stupid people like yourself so dont point the finger of blame at me [snip] this inept government brought in idiotic policies because [snip].
        [snip]
        [Edited to removed profanity, inflammatory comments and repetition - Calm down Crackar - Jo]

        264

        • #
        • #
          Bungalow Bill

          Hi Crak,

          “Buffoonary Bill AKA Bung head” – Good God another impoverished comedian.

          Peter Miller is a frequent poster here. It appears you and he have much in common.

          You can rant on all you like, make all the excuses under the sun and call me all the names you want, but you are still a hypocrite.

          And I note with interest, the abusive tone of your post is pretty much standard procedure here.

          Grow up.


          Report this

          122

          • #
            Crakar24

            So just to be clear the fact that you could not get my name right was merely a smear and not an attempt at comedy? And when the smear is returned in full you cry foul? Is this not an example of hypocrisy something which you accuse me of? Do the rules only apply in one direction?

            You conveniently dismiss my comment as a rant, much easier than having to actually respond but then again none of you have ever been good at debating have you?

            Again with the Peter Miller reference, i have no idea who he is, have never met him nor have i conversed with him but yet you still slander him every chance you get.

            I notice you could not bring yourself to acknowledge the high cost of power is primarily due to labor policies, policies which you endorse by the way. The policy is designed to drive up the cost of power to force people to look at other sources to reduce costs, in an effort to expediate this process the government have offered to discount the cost of installing solar panel systems they also offer a rebate on any electricty generation back to the grid.

            You do not need to have friction burns from hugging trees to accept this offer its just smart business sense there is no hypocrisy in what i have done.

            Government policy drives up cost of power

            Government policy offers a way to reduce your world class power bills

            Smart people take advantage

            Not hard to follow is it Buff?

            The abusive tone is generated by having to live in a world surrounded by stupid people, let me give you an example. I am currently renovating my kitchen and the guy is replacing the tiled splash back with a brushed aluminium. The phone connection is mounted on the tiles so the plan was to remove the plug and tuck the wires back in the hole and then seal it with the aluminium.

            The phone cable runs up the inside of the wall and enters the connection then travels back out and up the wall again across the ceiling and into another room (second connection). What does the guy do? Well he cuts both cables as far into the hole as humanly possible seals the hole, covers it with aluminium and then wonders why the phones dont work. No i need to rip out part of the wall so i can fill in the 4 inch air gap he left in teh cable then fix teh wall then put the splash back on again.

            You see Buff i am surrounded by stupid people and you are just one of many that do nothing but get in my way.

            Same applies to you MattB


            Report this

            113

          • #
            Streetcred

            Crak … bonehead gets a perverse pleasure out of needling. I object strongly to have to pay for the solar feed-in tariff in my electrickery bill but cannot afford panels as my income falls into the crack since ju-LIAR has pretty much killed off my industry.


            Report this

            132

          • #
            Mattb

            So I’m annoying because you employ crap tradies?


            Report this

            37

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    Chris Tangey should get an award!

    Very visible dust devils are common in the agricultural fields with fine brown soil of eastern Washington State. Two years ago along Interstate 90 there were a dozen or more at a time. No fires though – they’re not common in a tilled field.

    I wonder if the fire column had some characteristics of a “dust explosion” as indicated here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion

    A combustible dust or a hybrid mixture
    Oxidant (typically atmospheric oxygen . . .
    Ignition source
    Dispersion/suspension (at a high concentration)
    Confinement of dust cloud (or hybrid mixture cloud)

    The last item in the list isn’t met, so the stuff burns without the big bang, perhaps combined with what is already burning on the ground that is picked up. Could be that it is all picked up from the ground as burning material. Either way – impressive.


    Report this

    120

  • #
    Rick Bradford

    Gore need only change tack and inform us all that the looming worldwide nappy shortage is caused by global warming.

    Given the number of bed-wetters in the Alarmist movement, this would be a very appropriate move.


    Report this

    360

  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    Tangey’s scored a news story reminding the world that Al Gore is not concerned about the science, only about PR.

    And as such he has done much more harm to Al Gore’s message, than Gore could have gained by using the footage.

    The man is a hero.


    Report this

    380

  • #
    Dave N

    Al Gore’s logicthinking would be something like: “I bet not many people have seen that before, and it looks scary, so let’s use the footage and blame it on AGW”


    Report this

    340

  • #
    Bob in Castlemaine

    Congratulations for maintaining your integrity Chis Tangey by telling the Goreicle to stick his 30 pieces of silver. Symbolically your gesture means a lot.


    Report this

    300

  • #
    elva

    The robot landers on Mars have taken many images of dust devils despite the very cold temperatures and thin atmosphere.


    Report this

    170

  • #
    wes george

    Oh, well, Poor Al.

    You got to feel sorry for the bloke.

    He’s losing hundreds of millions of kleptocrat dollars on his failing Green pyramid schemes, including the carbon credit ponzi and now he can’t even get cut-rate cyclonic fire mayhem footage to illustrate his latest Ode to The Apocalypse rants.

    Disaster movie footage ain’t cheap to come by. But what’s a fire-n-brimstone preacher without a bit of, uh, fire and brimstone?

    Gore already tried to bargain an el cheapo rate with the owners of big Hollywood special effects disaster footage. You know, claiming that they’d be donating footage to “Save the Polar Bears” and that since Father Gore’s High Church of Climate Change is a registered religion (under the Church of Bob franchise) their donations would be tax deductible.

    But I hear the poor sod got no takers.

    Poor Al approached and was knocked back by the producers of Twister, War of the Worlds, The Perfect Storm, Apollo 13, Godzilla, Deep Impact, 2012, Contagion, Dante’s Peak, Poseidon, Volcano, White Squall, Meteor, Firestorm, Independence Day, Armageddon AND The Hindenburg.

    The Hindenburg??? “The Hindenburg” is ancient B-grade crap from the 1970′s! The FX suck.

    Now all sad Al can get is some lame Leunig cartoon re-runs half-priced from The Age who are having an everything-must-go fire sale this weekend.

    With that the best Al can hope for is to terrify the under-7 age group. Maybe.


    Report this

    210

    • #
      Geoff Sherrington

      Wes, Not the Hindenburg, but the Akron airship has a rather profound philosophical message that I suspect would be lost on Al. Quote from Net “It was during this cross-country flight, at a stop in Camp Kearny near San Diego, that Akron was involved in a tragic and very public accident on May 11, 1932. Three sailors on the ground crew were carried aloft by the ship’s mooring lines when the ship climbed unexpectedly, and two of the men fell to their deaths in an event that was captured on film and shown in newsreels throughout America.”
      The topic is loyalty. Those who first rushed forward to grab the rope would know that they would be carried highest and longest. Those who could have followed (had the rope been long enough to let their combined weight lower the nose) would have had a moral dilemma. Do I try to rescue the ship fast by grabbing the rope early and getting taken up high, or do I hang back showing enthusiasm and hope that the rope will have no room left by the time I get there?”
      Those who died, we hope, had a fleeting moment of pride that they had given their all to rescue many more.

      This scenario can be extended into many phases of life. For example, as a climate investigator, do I rush in early with criticisms and risk falling the furthest? Or do I hang back with the crowds and hope that I get my name on a paper with no risk of loss of funding? Think about it, Al, it’s a good one.

      On a similar, but lighter note, Churchill is reported as having said of Italian ships ” … their service is impeccable, their cuisine superb and then on an Italian ship there is none of this nonsense in time of emergency of women and children first.”


      Report this

      101

    • #
      Reed Coray

      You got to feel sorry for the bloke.”

      When Hell freezes over–which may not be that far in the future.


      Report this

      80

    • #
      Crakar24

      Wes,

      You forgot “the day the Earth stood still” and “Journey to the centre of the Earth” and what about “clash of the titans” some really good footage there i believe.


      Report this

      20

  • #
    ExWarmist

    Something like this…

    “…Man Made Global Warming causes the very air to catch on fire…”

    “…Fire Tornadoes caused by Human CO2 emissions devastate endangered wildlife…Rare Bilby goes up in smoke”

    “…Global Carbon Doom written in fiery letters in the sky…” (Al did go to divinity school for awhile…)

    “…Man Made Global Warming strikes fire down under…” (has several possible meanings…especially for Big Al)

    “…Man Made Global Warming ignites drowning Polar Bears…” (Requires some photo shopping first…)

    “…Pillars of Fire – an Omen of Imminent Doom…”

    One could go on all night.


    Report this

    130

  • #
    MadJack

    What awesome footage,

    Honestly, I am repeatedy struck with the diversity of nature and this sort of footage just provides yet another amazing example.

    Thank you Chris Tangey for taking this footage and sharing it.

    It’s great to see a natural phenomenon unspoiled by an opportunists political agenda.


    Report this

    80

  • #
    OldColdMan

    Please don’t.


    Report this

    20

  • #
    Bloke down the pub

    I bet that won’t stop Gore from linking to it on you-tube.


    Report this

    40

  • #
    pat

    thanx for capturing such great footage, Tangey, and thanx for standing up to Gore.

    btw two days ago, i saw a guy called Egan, who has a Ratings Agency, on Bloomberg Channel. knew nothing about his Agency, but was impressed by his willingness to stand apart from the hype of Moodys, Standard & Poors & Fitch. am now shocked to see this (shades ASIC’s years-long witchhunt on Twiggy Forrest, which Forrest finally coming out the winner this week). read it all:

    1 Oct: Bloomberg: William D. Cohan: SEC Sues the One Rating Firm Not on Wall Street’s Take
    The Securities and Exchange Commission, it seems, has finally lost its mind.
    In April, motivated by what I consider pure maliciousness, the SEC initiated a “cease and desist” administrative proceeding it deemed “necessary for the protection of investors and in the public interest” against Egan-Jones Ratings Co., a privately owned, 20-person firm based in Haverford, Pennsylvania, and against its principal owner, Sean Egan…
    Notably, it is the only one of the nine that gets paid by investors instead of by the issuers of securities.
    The bigger and better-known ratings companies — Standard & Poor’s (owned by McGraw-Hill Cos. (MHP)), Moody’s Corp. (MCO) and Fitch Ratings Ltd. — are paid by the Wall Street banks that underwrite the debt securities of corporate issuers. That is, the companies are beholden to the sellers of the products they are supposed to pass judgment on, not the buyers. That’s akin to allowing the Hollywood studios to pay the nation’s film critics for their opinions…
    We all saw the result in 2007 and 2008. A major cause of the financial crisis was that S&P, Moody’s and Fitch, while being paid hundreds of millions of dollars by Wall Street, gave AAA ratings to complicated, risky securities that turned out to be anything but AAA. If a big bank didn’t like a proposed rating, it just shopped the deal until it found a firm that would provide something it liked better…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-30/sec-sues-the-one-rating-firm-not-on-wall-street-s-take.html


    Report this

    110

    • #
      John Brookes

      Sad if its true.


      Report this

      30

      • #
        Jake

        Indeed John, very sad but correct.
        It’s like the trustees of finance companies, they are paid by the company so how do you think they are going to report. If they are critical of the performance they are replaced (fired, whatever), then you read that: due to other commitments so and so is no longer able to be trustee of XYZ Finance. So and so gets a nice golden handshake and puts pen to paper signing something that he will never talk about it. Of course so and so is unlikely to get a job as trustee for another finance company. Problem solved ( for the finance company that is).
        Are you going to bite the hand that feeds you?
        Come to think of it, it is very much like grants to find proof for anything you wish. You pay the money for a desired outcome, presto there are the findings, if it is a contentious issue there are usually loads of could’s and maybe’s in the report and with the conclusion that more research is required to validate the findings. In other words: show me more money.
        From no damage to the brain caused by cellphone use (paid for Ericsson and Nokia), to chocolate being good for you (paid for by Nestle), to Another Green Wish (paid for by Ewen Me).

        Sad indeed.


        Report this

        70

  • #
    pat

    3 Oct: Climate Spectator: Reuters: UN carbon price forecasts to 2020 cut further
    Average forecasts from 2012 to 2020 have fallen each month across all the CER contract years since May’s poll.
    Oversupply looks set to continue. CER issuance is expected to almost double this week after a slow September. Some analysts have warned stronger-than-expected injections of supply into the market could send prices back below 2 euros.
    Barclays Capital analysts said last week over-supply and stagnant demand will ensure CER prices remain below 3 euros indefinitely, even if European Union governments intervene in the EU’s Emissions Trading System (ETS) to help boost prices…
    http://www.climatespectator.com.au/news/un-carbon-price-forecasts-2020-cut-further


    Report this

    50

  • #
    pat

    don’t back down:

    2 Oct: Businessweek: Wael Mahdi: Saudi Arabia Said to Order Airline to Reject EU Carbon Rules
    “The EU thinks that, with time, the charges levied on us will become normal and acceptable. We wanted to make sure to send them a message that the case will not end easily,” Mohammed al-Sabban, an independent energy consultant and a former Saudi chief climate negotiator who represented the country in issuing the joint communique, said Sept. 28 by phone…
    The inclusion of airlines in the EU emissions trading system is a unilateral action taken outside the United Nation Framework Convention on Climate Change, al-Sabban said in an interview from Jeddah. Most Arab countries, as well as U.S., Canada, China, India, and Russia, hold views similar to those of Saudi Arabia, he said.
    The EU, which wants to lead the global battle against climate change, decided in 2008 that airlines will become part of its cap-and-trade system after a decade of inaction by international organizations…
    Airbus and eight airlines including Air France-KLM Group and Deutsche Lufthansa AG, said in a joint letter sent in March to the governments of France, Germany, Spain, and the United Kingdom that the inclusion of airlines created an “intolerable” situation and urged the governments to find a compromise.
    “I think the EU ETS will get solved by China and India not buying any Airbus airplanes,” Delta Air Lines Inc. Chief Executive Officer Richard Anderson said today at a cargo symposium in Atlanta hosted by The International Air Cargo Association…
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-02/saudi-arabia-said-to-order-airline-to-reject-eu-emission-rules


    Report this

    50

  • #
    Aelfrith

    “If you are thinking about green energy for your portfolio, Al Gore has a few words of advice: “Don’t do it.”

    “Of course he does not say that in public,” says Bill Gunderson, president of Gunderson Capital Management. “Gore’s company still talks about how alternative energy is a good investment. How companies are adopting it, governments are subsidizing it and people are using it.”

    But SEC filings from Gore’s company, Generation Investment, tell a different story” – http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/al-gore-bails-from-green-energy-investment/


    Report this

    100

  • #
    dp

    I hope Chris’s honesty is rewarded by an honest scientist, documentarist, or film maker who uses the film in a proper and honest way.


    Report this

    30

  • #
    Brian H

    Rather reminds me of the fire tornadoes that spun off the Burning Man fires in video ref’d by Willis E. on WUWT. One after the other:http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/burn-13-dust-devils.jpg?w=640&h=452

    (Can’t locate the vids at the moment, the still will have to do.)


    Report this

    10

  • #
    Chris Sconeveld

    Gore should have been given the permission to use the footage so as to let him make a fool of himself.


    Report this

    00

  • #

    The reason that Al Gore wanted this video footage is indicated by reading “The Debunking Handbook” by Stephan Lewandowsky and John Cook.

    It’s self-evident that democratic societies should base their decisions on accurate information. On many issues, however, misinformation can become entrenched in parts of the community, particularly when vested interests are involved. Reducing the influence of misinformation is a difficult and complex challenge. A common misconception about myths is the notion that removing its influence is as simple as packing more information into people’s heads. …

    Is it possible to completely eliminate the influence of misinformation? The evidence indicates that no matter how vigorously and repeatedly we correct the misinformation, for example by repeating the correction over and over again, the influence remains detectable.
    The old saying got it right – mud sticks.

    Only the unskeptical Docs missed out a bit. A picture of something can convey a far more pernicious message than the words that accompany it. There is no lie in saying
    “I am not suggesting that this extreme event was caused by climate change, but scientists believe that in the future this will type of event will become far more common.”
    Why should this obvious part be missed out? I suggest that misinformation by imagery is the stock in trade of alarmists. Whether of polar bears on ice or deliberately misleading graphs (not forgetting the hockey stick)the false image sticks in the mind far more than the words that accompany them.


    Report this

    120

    • #
      Robert

      I’m taking Mass Communications as part of my generals this semester. Not that I wanted to but it was the only thing that was open, fit the requirements, and gave me a workable schedule. One thing that we’ve discussed was the phrase “the medium is the message” which after 10 hours of work and a couple hours of class I’m just too tired and lazy to look up who said it, etc.

      The gist of it is what you discuss. The way the message is presented, i.e. the medium being used, often overshadows the actual message. The phrase “I saw it on the news” is quite often a literal description of how the person learned about whatever they are discussing. Learning about it from the actual commentary would more accurately be described as “I heard it on the news” but quite often the commentary is lost in the normal chaos of the average home with domestic issues and the other real life matters we try and “multitask” as we go about our day. But if one is only “learning” of events from the images behind the commentary one can claim to be informed without really knowing what they are talking abut.

      Unfortunately these days even listening to the commentary is no indication that one will know what they are talking about or even that they will be well informed at all.


      Report this

      70

  • #
    John from CA

    Als up to more nonsense. This time its stupidity in 24 hours titled “Dirty Weather”.

    One assumes he’s attempting to tie extreme weather events to climate change to scare the uninformed to vote Democrat. The more he talks the less convinced everyone is so there’s a silver lining if anyone bothers to watch for more than 2-3 mins.

    Kudos to Chris Tangey for his integrity.


    Report this

    50

  • #
    alex

    When all is said and done, climate Armageddon has not prevented big Al’ from buying a 9.5 million dollar mansion by the sea http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/05/03/stunning-pictures-al-gores-new-9-million-mansion-media-totally-ignore


    Report this

    40

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      I wonder if the august Mr. Gore realizes that if his friends at the UN can get Agenda-21 carried out they’ll not look approvingly upon his lavish lifestyle.

      Look out, Al! They’ll getcha along with the rest of us if they can. Beware the sustainability police!


      Report this

      50

      • #

        Roy, call me a cynic. The friends at the UN will overlook any Gore faults as long as he is useful in promoting their status and power.


        Report this

        90

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Jo,

          True for a while, yes. But there will come a time when he’s no longer the useful idiot. And then…

          Such is the history of power that I wouldn’t be caught in Gore’s position or the position of any of hundreds of others for anything. When the need changes from persuader to enforcer where will Gore find himself? Right in with the rest of us I think.


          Report this

          10

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        This is Agenda-21.

        I’ll leave you to decide if it’s on topic or not. But it’s the best summarization of Agenda-21 and what it’s doing that I’ve seen.

        It’s time to expose these madmen before they can finish us all off, because this can only be bad, bad, bad.


        Report this

        00

  • #
    Sean McHugh

    Why isn’t John B here defending Pastor Gore?


    Report this

    30

    • #
      Gee Aye

      If I was John B I would be asking for the evidence that Al Gore wanted this video to use it in connection with AGW propaganda as assumed in the title piece.


      Report this

      32

      • #
        • #
          Gee Aye

          No I am not.

          So anyway… I’d say that it is probable the Gore would use it in presentations that include the topic of AGW, and by implication that such things are a consequence of AGW, but I’ve not found anything that says that Gore intended to link this video directly with AGW. Here is what the Australian quotes.

          Jill Martin, from Mr Gore’s office, said the famed American climate change advocate wanted to use the footage for up to five years in his PowerPoint presentations to live audiences worldwide. “Mr Gore recently saw the amazing footage of the fire tornado taken on September 11th, and is interested in showing it during some of the presentations he gives on environmental topics,” she wrote.

          But Tangey said it was “difficult for me to imagine a fire event less relevant”.

          So “environmental topics” is the intended use. I have to say that Mr Tangey must have a strange view of the world if he thinks that a fire sucking willy willy is not relevant to the environment!


          Report this

          28

          • #
            Mark D.

            John Gee you are failing here;

            So “environmental topics” is the intended use.

            Kindly produce evidence that A.G. and company has in the last 5 years, publicly displayed Power Point presentations that do not contain significant AGW bias.

            It would be really insane to believe that A.G. wouldn’t use this in some way to continue his mission. His mission has been (and therefore safe to assume will be) spreading his (incorrect) view of how bad AGW is and why we need to radically change our lives. He’ll continue to do this while seeking to financially profit from the results.


            Report this

            131

          • #
            Gee Aye

            agree and I make pretty much the same point as you above. Just sticking to the available facts on this matter though.


            Report this

            31

          • #
            Crakar24

            Sticking? Since when have people like you ever shown an adherence to anything?

            Lets look at Gores record:

            1) Used old ice core data instead of current data which did not have the resolution to distinguish the well known fact that “co2 follows temp” for the purpose of committing fraud (obtaining funds by deception)in AIT.

            2) Used photos of dead polar bears and claimed they died of starvation due to AGW and not by a severe storm which was what actually killed them

            3) Here is a quote from Al

            I think the answer to that depends on where your audience’s head is. In the United States of America, unfortunately we still live in a bubble of unreality. And the Category 5 denial is an enormous obstacle to any discussion of solutions. Nobody is interested in solutions if they don’t think there’s a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are… Al Gore in Grist, 09 May 2006,


            Report this

            71

          • #
            Gee Aye

            thanks again for following one of my comments with non-sequiturs. Those things you wrote have nothing to do with what I wrote.


            Report this

            35

          • #
            Crakar24

            GA i suspect you mind works just like one big bowl of spaghetti.\\Please let me explain to you how this (debate works) right from the very start.

            1) 24.1 you stated that if you where Johnny boy you would as for the evidence that Gore would use this footage in his travelling road show in an effort to prove AGW is here now all around us.

            2) 24.1.1 Mark D asked if you were? Going to ask that is

            3) 24.1.1.1 you stated that you were not (with that out of teh way) you went on to state

            So anyway… I’d say that it is probable the Gore would use it in presentations that include the topic of AGW, and by implication that such things are a consequence of AGW, but I’ve not found anything that says that Gore intended to link this video directly with AGW

            In other words you think he will use it to sex up the presentations but as Gore has not stated he will there is still a chance he wont.

            You then provide a quote from the Australian which states Gore will use the video in an environmental context and from this you state

            So “environmental topics” is the intended use. I have to say that Mr Tangey must have a strange view of the world if he thinks that a fire sucking willy willy is not relevant to the environment!

            True a dust devil falls under the umbrella of environmental topics and therefore you lambast Tangey for not allowing/selling the footage to Gore, or to put it another way you are now convinced AL would not use it to defraud a few more billion from the gullible.

            4) 24.1.1.1. Mark D then asked you to provide evidence which suggests AL has plans to become the new replacement for Attenborough

            5) 24.1.1.1.2 you stated

            agree and I make pretty much the same point as you above. Just sticking to the available facts on this matter though.

            Therefore you agree with Mark D that Al Gore has never made a doco about the environment that has not been biased towards promoting his own self interests but the fact remains there is no evidence that this is the case this time.

            At this point i should remind you that we have been talking about a lack of evidence to support he assertion that Gore would not use this video to promote AGW and therefore promote his own self interests.

            6) 24.1.1.1.3 I give you 3 examples of how Gore has used video/photographic/data in a way to promote his own self interests in otherwords he has obtained funds by deception or if you like he has committed fraud which is exactly the type of evidence you are looking for.

            7) 24.1.1.1.4 you state

            thanks again for following one of my comments with non-sequiturs. Those things you wrote have nothing to do with what I wrote.

            Do you understand now why your brain is like a big bowl of spaghetti?


            Report this

            91

          • #
            Gee Aye

            Diatribes like this and my responses to them should rightly get moderated away. Apart from being a lot of writing about nothing that pretty much repeats what is already obvious from the previous posts, point 4 is untrue, point 5 ridiculous (asking for evidence of something that has not occurred?), 6 refers to the non-sequitur that caused the diatribe and 7 is worth repeating…

            Those things you wrote have nothing to do with what I wrote.


            Report this

            37

          • #
            Crakar24

            I am gobsmacked that there are people in this world that are so stupid and yet still manage to survive. I guess it is a testament to the human spirit.

            GA you like buffoonary and Jb are as dumb as a box of hammers and are incapable of coherent thought therefore you are unable to conduct rational debates.


            Report this

            51

          • #
            Bungalow Bill

            GA you like buffoonary and Jb are as dumb as a box of hammers

            Hi Crak,

            Well, it’s patently obvious you don’t qualify for Mensa.

            Cheers!!!


            Report this

            19

      • #
        Sean McHugh

        Gee Aye said:

        If I was John B I would be asking for the evidence that Al Gore wanted this video to use it in connection with AGW propaganda as assumed in the title piece.

        Good point! It’s like the other day when I received an offer from a Nigerian banker to deposit $50,000,000 into my bank account. I confess I cynically assumed it was an attempt to trick me.


        Report this

        50

    • #
      John Brookes

      He is a nice, polite man. He asks permission to use a video. Just why the content of the video has to be proved to be related to global warming before you can use it, I don’t know. The video has a nice “armageddon” feel to it, which suits the slow moving disaster that AGW is becoming.

      And of course Al Gore has an AGW bias. Largely because its happening.


      Report this

      421

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Aside from the obvious type comments to be made there’s another one to consider — what a stoke of good luck it was to be in just the right place at the right time ready to take the video. Fantastic once in a lifetime opportunity, that. :-)

    And fie on Al Gore one more time — the bum deserves all the refusals he can get. :-(

    Hooray for Chris!


    Report this

    70

    • #
      Manfred

      Al Gourdo is a member of the Green eco-elite. His personal wealth and lavish lifestyle are testament to his undeniable ‘success’. Societal repression and control through the progressive implementation of Agenda 21 will simply see him Deified, while the Green-state apparatchik “sustainability police” will assuredly turn a blind eye to his personal excess. It is, as I said, testament to his ‘success’, as indeed is this web site! Why would the ‘believers’ tear down their god?


      Report this

      30

      • #
        John Brookes

        Yes, indeed only people like Clive Palmer should be rich. Shame on any greeny, lefty types for every getting rich!


        Report this

        215

        • #

          What we would like John is perhaps that they might practice what they preach.

          Who Owns These Two Houses

          Tony.


          Report this

          120

        • #
          Winston

          Are you really that naive John that you think an investment banker who has made billions of dollars out of climate alarmism is actually even remotely “a greeny” or even “a lefty”? Why, because he says so? You must be joking, John, sometimes you really take the cake in the stupidity department.
          FYI- He is neither! Irregardless of your personal take on the validity of AGW or otherwise, Al Gore is in it for one purpose- The Al Gore Vanity Project. It’s the world’s most high profile and profitable self-aggrandissement exercise geared to punish the American people for failing to elect him El Presidente in the Hobson’s choice election which he lost to Bush. That GWB was such a poor president doesn’t necessarily mean the America people didn’t make the right choice.


          Report this

          50

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Gore is just a useful idiot. When useful idiots aren’t needed anymore… …of course he could die first but can you picture the UN finding any use for his heirs?

        He’ll never be one of the bosses. He’ll never be one of the enforcers. And that puts him in the same boat as the rest of us eventually.


        Report this

        20

  • #
    EternalOptimist

    I have been through Curtin springs and Alice. several times.
    Spent a year in the bush.
    But I have never witnessed this amazing natural phenomenon.

    When I first saw the picures my thoughts were not
    ‘omg ,what have we done’

    they were
    ‘omg, what a fantastic world. what else is there going on naturally that I am totally unaware of or that nobody knows about

    what sort of balloon-head thinks that everything new must be a result of what they have done


    Report this

    90

  • #
    Neville

    Bob Tisdale has a great new video on youtube and he sticks it up Gore, Trenberth and Hansen.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/10/03/bob-tisdales-dirty-weather-control-video-rated-rr/#more-71885

    He shows that climate models are not reality and natural systems like ENSO control temp and climate over the last 30 years.


    Report this

    80

    • #
      John Brookes

      You’d better watch Bob’s video quick though, because the odds are that in a few years the new data will confirm AGW, and make Bob’s video just another rusty nail hanging uselessly from the coffin lid.


      Report this

      323

      • #
        Mark D.

        There were never dust devils prior to 1875?

        Same for bush fires……

        John you really are a dumbass!


        Report this

        100

      • #
        memoryvault

        the odds are that in a few years the new data will confirm AGW

        Sorry John, but I’m confused. I thought the “science was settled” years ago.

        Now you’re telling me we have to wait a few years – and get some new data – just to confirm the hypothesis??

        And even that’s just a “maybe”???


        Report this

        170

      • #
        Neville

        So real observations and reality mean nothing to you JB? Another bloke who seems to lack simple logic and reason, perhaps you should read Jo’s previous post again?

        Real obs and data should trump clueless climate models, but you’re still left clutching at straws trying to convince yourself that natural systems like ENSO etc are caused by human beings.


        Report this

        70

      • #
        Mark

        Now, now John, if you were that good at playing the odds you’d be sunning it up in the Bahamas instead of amusing us humble mortals here.


        Report this

        60

      • #
        Sean McHugh

        John Brookes said:

        He [Al Gore] is a nice, polite man.

        Pastors usually are. Charisma and BS are their stock in trade.


        Report this

        50

      • #
        AndyG55

        Thanks JB, you are correct for once. AGW has not been confirmed. It is still less than a hypothesis.


        Report this

        20

    • #
      sillyfilly

      Gawd help us!

      Quoting Bob Tisdale or promoting his book makes Al Gore sound positively illuminary. Tisdale will go the same way as Plimer Carter et al, another intrepid voldemort type


      Report this

      223

  • #
    patterson

    Al Gore lost an election by the flick of a coin. but he wants to turn his fortunes around and thats where the “CLIMATE SAGA” began. the real FACTS surrounding this circus is THE UNITED NATIONS and a bunch of athiests. the UN very CLEARLY states: The Population Control Agenda –UN- Behind The Global Warming Movement is the “Cheapest” Way To Reduce Carbon Emissions. As bizarre as this may seem the UN policy brief begins with this shocking question.“What would it take to accelerate fertility decline in the least developed countries?” But as bad as that report was, the U.N. recently released a report on population that was even more shocking.The United Nations Population Fund recently released its annual State of the World Population Report entitled “Facing a Changing World: Women, Population and Climate”. This stunning report goes farther than any U.N. report has ever gone before by unequivocally linking population growth with climate change. The report states that the only way a climate disaster can be avoided is to radically increase “family planning” services around the globe and to do whatever it takes to reduce worldwide fertility rates. So where does the dust devil sit i.n all of the real agenda except for masquradeing as climate change. If ONLY someone could stand up and tell the real truth.


    Report this

    60

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    Interesting phenomena in WA; they have had very little rain there this year, yet the brooks are still babbling.


    Report this

    102

    • #
      Len

      Exactly the same as it was 100 years ago.


      Report this

      41

    • #
      Catamon

      Interesting phenomena in WA; they have had very little rain there this year, yet the brooks are still babbling.

      Was actually quite late getting stream flow in the areas i frequent in the hills, and wont last long. Will be interesting to see if we get much summer rain this year. They are really not babbling to loud at all.


      Report this

      13

      • #
        Dave

        .
        Catamon,

        Boring!

        Dicussed this over a year ago. See levels of all WA dams.

        Argyle Dam (Ord River) 9,719,760 ML 23/09/2012 10,763,000 ML 90.31%
        Balingup Dam 18 ML 02/10/2012 61 ML 29.18%
        Bickley Pumpback Dam 60 ML 04/10/2012 60 ML 100.00%
        Big Brook Dam 659 ML 03/10/2012 627 ML 105.04%
        Bolganup Dam 219 ML 04/10/2012 224 ML 97.70%
        Borden No 1 Dam 4 ML 18/09/2012 5 ML 77.69%
        Borden No 2 Dam 10 ML 18/09/2012 15 ML 69.73%
        Bottle Creek Dam 238 ML 04/10/2012 350 ML 68.14%
        Boyup Brook Dam 86 ML 04/10/2012 129 ML 66.74%
        Brookton Dam 31 ML 27/09/2012 136 ML 23.13%
        Canning Dam 28,165 ML 04/10/2012 90,353 ML 31.17%
        Churchman Brook Dam 1,230 ML 04/10/2012 2,241 ML 54.89%
        Conjurunup Pipe Head Dam 129 ML 04/10/2012 180 ML 71.67%
        Cranbrook Dam 1 34 ML 02/10/2012 35 ML 98.43%
        Cranbrook Dam 2 9 ML 02/10/2012 21 ML 41.52%
        Cranbrook Dam 3 35 ML 02/10/2012 54 ML 65.37%
        Drakes Brook Dam 2,230 ML 03/10/2012 2,290 ML 97.38%
        Dumpling Gully Dam 1 45 ML 02/10/2012 95 ML 46.87%
        Dumpling Gully Dam 2 40 ML 02/10/2012 98 ML 40.69%
        Frankland Dam 31 ML 18/09/2012 32 ML 96.66%
        Glen Mervyn Dam 1,862 ML 03/10/2012 2,054 ML 90.66%
        Gnowangerup No 1 Dam 41 ML 28/08/2012 45 ML 91.15%
        Gnowangerup No 2 Dam 26 ML 28/08/2012 29 ML 90.72%
        Harding Dam 32,363 ML 30/09/2012 63,800 ML 50.73%
        Harris Dam 33,950 ML 03/10/2012 72,000 ML 47.15%
        Harvey Dam 34,146 ML 04/10/2012 56,441 ML 60.50%
        Hester Dam 55 ML 02/10/2012 124 ML 44.65%
        Hyden Humps Dam 35 ML 03/10/2012 47 ML 74.87%
        Jerramungup No 1 Dam 13 ML 18/09/2012 14 ML 95.54%
        Jerramungup No 2 Dam 41 ML 18/09/2012 55 ML 73.65%
        Kirup Dam 14 ML 02/10/2012 60 ML 22.62%
        Kondinin/Yeerakine Dam 33 ML 03/10/2012 41 ML 79.34%
        Kukerin (Reservoir) 32 ML 27/09/2012 36 ML 88.10%
        Lake Grace No 1 Dam 54 ML 13/09/2012 55 ML 97.82%
        Lake King Dam 14 ML 10/07/2012 12 ML 114.74%
        Logue Brook Dam 4,629 ML 04/10/2012 24,321 ML 19.03%
        Lower Helena Pumpback Dam 133 ML 03/10/2012 133 ML 99.97%
        Manjimup Dam 507 ML 03/10/2012 1,581 ML 32.08%
        Mundaring Dam 27,970 ML 04/10/2012 63,597 ML 43.98%
        Mungalup Dam 438 ML 01/10/2012 681 ML 64.29%
        Munglinup Dam 19 ML 27/09/2012 20 ML 95.00%
        Nannup (Tanjannerup) Dam 150 ML 02/10/2012 156 ML 96.35%
        Newdegate Turkey Nest Dam 31 ML 25/09/2012 47 ML 65.43%
        North Dandalup Dam 19,055 ML 04/10/2012 60,791 ML 31.35%
        Nyabing Dam 28 ML 25/09/2012 29 ML 97.81%
        Ongerup No 1 Dam 16 ML 18/09/2012 22 ML 71.94%
        Ongerup No 3 Dam 0 ML 18/09/2012 4 ML 0.17%
        Philips Creek Dam 72 ML 03/10/2012 269 ML 26.71%
        Pingrup Dam 27 ML 25/09/2012 27 ML 100.72%
        Pinwernying Dam 158 ML 24/09/2012 251 ML 63.10%
        Quickup Dam 982 ML 25/09/2012 1,189 ML 82.58%
        Quinninup Dam 400 ML 03/10/2012 535 ML 74.77%
        Ravensthorpe Dam 1 3 ML 27/09/2012 40 ML 6.30%
        Ravensthorpe Dam 2 13 ML 27/09/2012 15 ML 83.87%
        Ravensthorpe Dam 3 18 ML 27/09/2012 104 ML 17.12%
        Ravensthorpe Dam 4 14 ML 27/09/2012 56 ML 25.61%
        Rocky Gully 47 ML 04/10/2012 46 ML 101.17%
        Samson Brook Dam 2,655 ML 03/10/2012 7,993 ML 33.21%
        Serpentine Main Dam 35,445 ML 04/10/2012 137,667 ML 25.75%
        Serpentine Pipehead Dam 1,950 ML 04/10/2012 2,625 ML 74.29%
        South Dandalup Dam 18,074 ML 04/10/2012 138,000 ML 13.10%
        Stirling Dam 26,742 ML 04/10/2012 53,769 ML 49.73%
        Tambellup No 1 Dam 24 ML 06/09/2012 45 ML 53.49%
        Ten Mile Brook Dam 840 ML 03/10/2012 1,691 ML 49.66%
        Varley Dam 7 ML 02/10/2012 12 ML 60.58%
        Victoria Dam 4,609 ML 04/10/2012 9,463 ML 48.71%
        Waroona Dam 5,715 ML 04/10/2012 15,173 ML 37.67%
        Wellington Dam 129,164 ML 03/10/2012 184,916 ML 69.85%
        Wungong Dam 33,673 ML 04/10/2012 59,796 ML 56.31%

        WA has more than enough water if only you stopped spending on windmills & wave bobbing energy things – you would be OK!

        And in Marandoo WA, Rio is using 35 gigalitres of water to irrigate feed grasses for cattle properties. They’ve installed a $140 million sprinkler system in the region.

        Catamon – and lovely Jules has spent $31.5 million on Perth Wave Energy Project which is a joint venture with the Western Australian Government and private investors, to which the Federal Government has previously committed $9.9m under its Emerging Renewable Program.

        All this for 1.25 Mw of electricity PA.

        And you complain about water to your and Brookes little taps at home.

        Focus Catamon please.


        Report this

        20

        • #
          Catamon

          ummm Dave, what are you on about? I was replying to a post referencing stream flows and your on about dam levels and water use and wave energy?

          And you complain about water to your and Brookes little taps at home.

          Ummm no?

          The delusion is strong in this one.

          13

          • #
            Dave

            .
            Sorry Catamon – my mistake,

            Didn’t realise you’re only interested in babbling noises only.

            Will be interesting to see if we get much summer rain this year. They are really not babbling to loud at all.

            Where’s LOUD?


            Report this

            30

      • #
        John Brookes

        I lived in the Perth hills for a few years, and loved the winter with the streams flowing.


        Report this

        02

        • #
          Dave

          .
          John,

          I lived in the Perth hills Argyle Area for a few years, and loved the winter with the streams flowing 9,719,760 Mega Litres under my fishing boat!

          Move north John – adapt to the proven science – don’t sit and wallow in your coffee coloured drying mud pit!


          Report this

          00

    • #
      memoryvault

      .
      It’s okay Graeme#3, some of us got it.

      Maybe if you had spelled “brooks” as “Brookes” it might have helped some of the humour-challenged.
      (Though obviously not JB hisself, of course).

      Personally I gave it a thumbs up, plus my droll comment of the year award.


      Report this

      50

    • #
      Nathan

      Graeme No.3, where did you get the idea of ‘very little rain’. I live here and I can tell you that rain has been increasing in recent years after the hard drought. We haven’t had the increase that the eastern states have had but it is better than 5 years ago. Our dams are filling but we do need more. Interesting that the water corp website use to show several decades of rainfall and the dams but they don’t any longer. Maybe it didn’t fit someones agenda now that rainfall is increasing again. I am sure it is there somewhere.


      Report this

      20

  • #
    pat

    this study had NOTHING, i tell u NOTHING to do with CAGW advocacy:

    4 Oct: Australian: AFP: Man-made gases emitted ‘centuries before industrialisation’
    HUMANS were big emitters of greenhouse gases long before the Industrial Revolution, a finding that raises worrying questions about the benchmark for measuring global warming, a newly-published study says.
    For 1800 years before industrialisation took off in the 19th century, emissions of methane rose in line with expanding populations, human conquest and agricultural techniques, it said.
    Celia Sapart at Utrecht University in the Netherlands and colleagues analysed 56 ice core samples drilled in north and central Greenland for levels of carbon 13, a telltale isotope of methane…
    Between 100 BC and 1600 AD roughly 28 extra billion tonnes of methane per year were added to the atmosphere, according to the analysis…
    The major contributors are likely to have been deforestation, biomass burning and rice paddies, rather than geological sources such as mud volcanoes, according to the study published in the journal Nature…
    The study was neither designed to calculate the additional warming from the methane emissions, nor probe whether any warming affected weather patterns, but it has clear implications for work on climate change, said Ms Sapart.
    “This study shows the urgency of controlling greenhouse gas emissions as soon as possible, because it shows that the disequilibrium in the climate system caused by humans existed for much longer than we expected,” she said in an email exchange with AFP…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/man-made-gases-emitted-centuries-before-industrialisation/story-e6frg8y6-1226487884225

    3 Oct: LA Times: Monte Morin: Study reveals ancient greenhouse gas emissions
    The research appeared to be the result of very careful and very difficult examination of carbon isotopes and could impact global warming estimates for the pre-industrial period, according to Ed Dlugokencky, a methane expert at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Earth System Research Laboratory in Boulder, Colo.
    “The study gives further evidence for a contribution to the global methane burden from anthropogenic sources,” said Dlugokencky, who was not involved in the study…
    http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-humans-climate-change-20121004,0,2962982.story

    4 Oct: ABC: Reuters: Alister Doyld: Roman, Han Dynasty kick started climate change
    http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/10/04/3603567.htm

    Tom Nelson’s website has this link:

    Atmospheric Physics and Chemistry Group
    Dr Celia Julia Sapart
    Master in “Climate Change”, University of East Anglia, Norwich (UEA), UK, 2006-2007
    http://www.projects.science.uu.nl/atmosphereclimate/celia.php


    Report this

    30

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Wow! Our tax dollars at work and play.

      In other words, who cares except these same old members of the mutual back patting society known as the global warming industry? Oh, and of course, the tax payers ought to care but probably don’t even know about it.

      Someone get these people a useful job before they start researching the contribution of prehistoric humans to global warming. I have some nighttime janitorial work they can start with. :-)


      Report this

      00

  • #
    Gee Aye

    Off topic (for once)… people in or near Canberra might be interested in this

    http://billboard.anu.edu.au/event_view.asp?id=95674


    Report this

    00

    • #
      wes george

      Speaking of off topic, I watched the Obama Romney debate today and Obama walked away carrying his own head in a basket. Romney was polite enough to hand it back to him after the most subtle ass whooping I’ve ever seen in a US Presidential debate.

      CNN finds Romney “winning” 67-25. As Al Gore might say… that’s unprecedented.

      Even the MSM and the Democrats agree: Obama is the loser. Big Time.

      Who wants to bet that our Auntie won’t bother mentioning this tonight on our state-owned and operated nightly news?

      The best substantive zinger was Romney pointing out that the oil subsidies the president is always droning on about gave just over $2 billion away, while the green-energy subsidies the president is always on about gave over $90 billion away. Government isn’t just picking winners and losers, Romney added, it’s only picking the losers!

      http://www.nationalreview.com/corner

      Choom!


      Report this

      60

      • #
        Crakar24

        This is interesting, i heard Romney was losing by 4 points in the polls and they said only a disaster at the debate by Obama could save Romney a miracle if you will………………….


        Report this

        10

        • #
          wes george

          Well, I don’t know about miracles.

          Everyone seems to agree Obama lost.

          Here’s the opinion of a leading up-himself Obama-lover and idiot (and fellow choom smoker) in the states:

          Look: you know how much I love the guy, and you know how much of a high information viewer I am, and I can see the logic of some of Obama’s meandering, weak, professorial arguments. But this was a disaster for the president for the key people he needs to reach, and his effete, wonkish lectures may have jolted a lot of independents into giving Romney a second look.

          http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/10/live-blogging-the-first-presidential-debate-2012.html

          Choom, dude!


          Report this

          40

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Wes,

            Now if Romney can just keep it up. The road is a little less rocky but the end isn’t in sight quite yet.

            But it was a remarkable jolt to the president. His face was speaking volumes that he didn’t dare say aloud. It was almost as if he’d been caught with his pants down.


            Report this

            20

  • #
    Ceetee

    Romney could still to win, bad news for climastrology. Look what happens when you take the tribal media out of the equation. I read some comments on the BBC website and you should see the wailing, whining and gnashing of teeth. According to the many Lilliputians who get their daily sermon from that website, it’s down to the crass, shallow USA and their propensity for style over substance. A loss for Obama would be a brutal refutation of all they believe in by those “stupid yanks”. I hope AGW gets a mention in the next debate because this is the elephant in the room that has defined so much policy in much of the world. A firm vote of no confidence in the so called “consensus” by Romney would be a seminal moment in this entire debate, even if he were to lose. I suspect that most politicians would prefer not to even be asked the sort of pointed questions we here would ask, sort of “Don’t ask don’t tell”. It remains to be seen how Romney would respond.
    Obama, Cameron, Gillard et al have bought one way tickets and there is no way back for them.


    Report this

    40

    • #
      memoryvault

      .
      AGW is getting as much coverage in the US presidential elections as it will in the next federal elections here in OZ.

      Electing Republican Romney to President will make as much difference to the AGW scam in the US as electing Liberal Abbott to Prime Minister** here in OZ.

      .
      ** Or more likely Malcolm Turnbull.


      Report this

      10

    • #
      Catamon

      LOL! Saw a good tweet re the debate.

      Democrats: Obama Won!!
      Repuglicans: Romney Won!!
      Teabaggers: Get yer Gun! There’s a Mormon and a Muslim on the TV.

      Cracked me up. :)


      Report this

      41

      • #
        memoryvault

        .
        CAGW cultists: It’s worse than we thought!!


        Report this

        50

      • #
        MadJak

        Democrats: Obama Won!!

        Wow, are democrat supporters really that dumb???


        Report this

        20

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        It’s the Goldman Sachs candidate versus the Monsanto candidate. Everybody loses.

        Helicopter Ben signalled QE to infinity. Stock market crash 2nd edition is rumoured. Terminator-style robot bodies are in development. ASIO soon to get more surveillance powers via data retention. Peak Oil scheduled for 2019. In the next 3 weeks Obama’s “October surprise” could be war with Iran, which has WW3 written all over it if they haven’t done a secret deal with Putin yet. If it weren’t for the robots it would look like the 1930s all over again, and gee didn’t they end well.

        And there are still people worried about global warming?? That’s just a way to deny and ignore the worse dangers, some of which can actually be controlled – by madmen. I’ll be glad just to get out of this with all my parts intact.

        As to those who stubbornly cling to dreams of peace and prosperity, please read this and just see if ANY part of it rings any bells for you.

        As the false belief is affirmed in public and expressed in action, though, the critical space required to accept the belief publicly without believing it inwardly trickles away. The cognitive dissonance that comes from affirming and enacting a belief without believing it is hard to bear, and the more the belief is affirmed and enacted, the more painful the dissonance becomes. One way out of the dissonance is to abandon the false belief, but social pressures often make that a costly and embarrassing step; the other option, to make yourself believe that the false belief is true, routinely comes with equally substantial social rewards. It’s not surprising that a significant number of people make that latter choice.

        It’s a shame he believes in the global warming scam, but aside from that he’s got human nature pegged.


        Report this

        10

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      I want to remind everyone that Obama’s defeat is not assured at all.

      For starters — I’m in possession of material that conclusively demonstrates a widespread conspiracy to win the election by voter fraud. It looks possible that the actual honest vote could make Romney the next president and Obama still win because of the dishonest vote.

      I can point you to the Judicial Watch web site where you will find a great deal of this information but the most concise summary of it is in printed form and distributed only to Judicial Watch members so I can’t provide you with direct links to it. However there is a link on the main page to the 2012 Election Integrity Project.

      For seconds — if the vote does go against Obama look for legal challenges that will tie things up clear up to inauguration day and maybe beyond. Both sides have batteries of lawyers just waiting to step in and challenge anything they can.

      This is dirty politics like you have never seen before. Nothing is assured at this point except a very interesting election season.

      None of this is any kind of wild theory unsupported by evidence. It’s backed up by actual documents obtained through FOIA and by diligent investigation. In other words, Judicial watch is doing the MSM’s work for them.


      Report this

      20

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I found this link to document my claim of conspiracy to commit voter fraud. The Obama Justice Department is colluding with the supposedly defunct ACORN organization without a doubt in this world. This is just flat out illegal.

        If you live in the United States and you are at all concerned with the outcome of elections being the honest choice of only the legally eligible voters, this is something you want to read.

        Then please consider getting involved. Judicial Watch needs financial support like never before.


        Report this

        20

  • #

    I agree with you entirely Jo, except on the spelling of Chris Tangey’s name!

    [Thanks Dave, I think we fixed all of them] ED


    Report this

    01

  • #
    Dave

    .
    Bungalow Bill,

    What do you think of Biofuels?
    What do you think of Wave Energy?
    What do you think of Solar power?
    What do you think of Wind turbine energy?

    I would like you to refer to Australia & the Pacific and the environmental impacts that result from these developments.

    Thanks

    Dave


    Report this

    10

    • #
      memoryvault

      Bungalow Bill,

      What do you think . . .

      Dave,

      BBs are dense little pellets of lead shot from an air rifle.

      They don’t think.

      They simply mindlessly go in the direction they are pointed.


      Report this

      20

    • #
      Bungalow Bill

      Hi Dave,

      Biofuels: My preference is corn on the cob.

      Wave Energy: Love it, particularly 6 foot right hand reef/point breaks with a light offshore. Bells is my favourite.

      Solar Power: Dangerous. Was sampling some wave energy yesterday and absorbed a little too much “Solar Power”. Came out looking like a tomato. Rare this time of year at 38south. Will use sunscreen in future.

      Wind Turbine Energy: Not my thing – much prefer Supercharged Mercs.

      And what’s that annoying drone in the background????? Ahhhh that’s memoryvault.


      Report this

      06

      • #
        Dave

        .
        No worries Bill,

        Obviously environment is not your thing!


        Report this

        30

      • #
        Catamon

        And what’s that annoying drone in the background????? Ahhhh that’s memoryvault.

        Wrong, its part of the global conspiracy and is about to launch a missile at you. :)


        Report this

        04

        • #
          memoryvault

          .
          Waste a missile on a dense little lump of lead that can only go where it’s aimed?

          You’ve got to be kidding – a wet blanket is sufficient.


          Report this

          30

        • #
          Bungalow Bill

          Wrong, its part of the global conspiracy and is about to launch a missile at you. :)

          I’ve borrowed MV’s tinfoil hat.

          I’ll be OK.


          Report this

          27

          • #
            memoryvault

            I’ve borrowed MV’s tinfoil hat.

            Sorry but I think you’ll find it’s way too small for you.

            There’s no way your ego would fit into anything of mine.


            Report this

            60

      • #
        memoryvault

        Was sampling some wave energy yesterday and absorbed a little too much “Solar Power”. Came out looking like a tomato. Rare this time of year at 38south.

        I didn’t know there was that much “wave energy” in Port Phillip Bay.

        Or maybe you hail from Sale and were over at Letts Beach, but I hear the surfs not too grand there as well.

        Either way, you couldn’t have got too much “solar power” in the wee hours of daybreak sunlight, so is it safe to presume you don’t actually work a real job?


        Report this

        30

      • #
        Winston

        It’s clear to see, BB, that you have given up even attempting to justify the validity of these renewable energy sources as a viable alternative to “carbon”. Perhaps these sarcastic responses would be palatable if it weren’t for the fact that my electricity bill, the PMs electricity bill and the bills of millions of other taxpayers have jumped up by 30-50% on the same time last year. All that to pay a premium to facilitate a transition to energy of which you can’t even raise a limp defense, knowing full well that each and every one is incapable of even replacing one large coal fired power station. And I’m sure you will try to tell me it is not about politics and control by the bureaucratic criminal classes, which you no doubt represent. Your level of unearned hubris and self-satisfied smugness is pathological, IMO.

        So, tell me BB, when are you going to seek out gainful employment? You know the type of job that actually benefits someone, or generates something useful for society? Or, is the tapeworm your model of ideal parasite to which you aspire? At least the tapeworm has enough sense to keep the host alive while it sucks the lifeblood out of it !


        Report this

        60

  • #
    MadJack

    O/T,

    Meanwhile, the person who was the head of the Australian Labor party up until a short time ago has been arrested on over 20 charges related to fraud or the coverup of said fraud.

    And yes, many of the charges relate to the last 12 months as he was trying to cover up for a certain minister of Brothel quality control.

    Not that the ALP leaning ABC would want to cover this or anything….

    Nothing to see here, move along move along…..


    Report this

    40

  • #
    elva

    One other thing Al Gore once said still amuses me and his claim to understanding the science. Some time back I recall seeing a video clip from a TV interview. In it ( to paraphrase him)he said that there was plenty of energy just under our feet because inside the earth it was MILLIONS of degrees. But even the surface of the sun is only thousands of degrees. Only at the centre of the sun do temperatures rise to millions. If Al Gore doesn’t know this basic fact I wouldn’t believe any thing he says in the field of science.


    Report this

    30

  • #
    pat

    4 Oct: News Ltd: Simon Birmingham: Carbon tax money-go-round
    The Clean Energy Regulator’s provision last week of free carbon units to two companies signals the commencement of Australia’s carbon market…
    Bizarrely, the Gillard Government itself has issued no media release either announcing or welcoming the start of this market or this particular expenditure of taxpayers’ money – not Prime Minister Julia Gillard, not Climate Change Minister Greg Combet, not even Climate Change Parliamentary Secretary Mark Dreyfus.
    They left it to the new $256 million member of the carbon tax bureaucracy, the Clean Energy Regulator, to quietly issue a media release late on a Thursday afternoon before a long weekend…
    Then again, $150 million is but a fraction of the $8.6 billion expected to be handed out to industry during the first three years of the carbon tax, let alone the total churn generated by the $9 billion a year tax.
    Essentially, Labor is handing over a fistful of cash to a select few companies, only to later demand a wheel-barrowful of cash in return.
    This churn of money almost makes sense when considered alongside the ongoing chaos and confusion surrounding the carbon tax…
    The carbon tax has only been in operation since July and already Labor has scrapped the floor price they once said was necessary for business confidence. Certainty was also a victim when the Contract for Closure program to shut down power stations was abandoned, meaning the carbon tax will have to be even higher to achieve the same emissions targets or that there will have to be an even greater reliance on the purchase of overseas permits.
    Labor’s ongoing rewriting of Australia’s carbon tax laws now also sees their effective outsourcing to Brussels. The looming linkage between the Australian and European schemes will mean that higher targets set by Europe or faster emissions growth in Europe will result in a higher carbon tax in Australia.
    Even claims the carbon tax supports “lowest cost abatement” have been seriously undermined, with another change to the carbon tax laws set to impose a stringent new cap on the use of those international permits that are most likely to be cheapest.
    Every change to the carbon tax simply seems to point to higher costs, more churn or more bureaucracy. Yet none of the changes point to better environmental outcomes or even a small reduction in Australia’s actual emissions in the foreseeable future…
    These costs will increasingly pass through the economy, with Australian households and businesses feeling it ever more in each and every electricity bill. Meanwhile, the long-term impacts to competitiveness will increasingly be felt in every investment decision made.
    There’s no merriness in this carbon tax money-go-round, which is no doubt why the government has become so determined to stop talking about it.
    http://www.news.com.au/news/carbon-tax-money-go-round/story-fnepjsb4-1226488222704


    Report this

    10

  • #
    pat

    5 Oct: Australian: Michael Owen: Tax vow boosted by state’s carbon costing
    Paul Kerin, the chief executive of the Essential Services Commission of South Australia, yesterday said if the Coalition won the next election and removed the carbon tax then the wholesale price of power would drop across all states by between 4 1/2 per cent and 8 per cent…
    Mr Abbott used the comments to reaffirm his commitment to repeal Labor’s carbon tax if he wins office next year.
    “The carbon tax has a direct impact on people’s electricity bills. By scrapping the carbon tax that impact disappears,” Mr Abbott told The Australian yesterday.
    “I want to cut the cost of your power bills by scrapping the carbon tax as the first priority if elected into government.”…
    (Spokesman for Climate Change Minister Greg Combet)”The reality is that the Coalition can’t and won’t repeal the carbon price,” the spokesman said.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-tax/tax-vow-boosted-by-states-carbon-costing/story-fndttws1-1226488500047


    Report this

    20

  • #
    pat

    4 Oct: Bloomberg/Businessweek: Ewa Krukowska: EU Carbon Pares Gains After Parliament Sets Carbon Vote
    European Union carbon permits pared gains after the bloc’s parliament scheduled its first vote on a legal change that would enable the bloc to curb a glut of emission allowances later than regulators had planned.
    The European Parliament’s environment committee will vote on the measure on Feb. 19 under the “fastest possible timetable,” Matthias Groote, the chairman of the environment committee, said today in a telephone interview…
    EU carbon allowances for December fell to as low as 7.55 euros a metric ton today, a 5.7 percent decline from 8.01 euros just before the announcement…
    “This calendar is clearly not as optimistic as could have been expected,” Isabelle Curien, a Deutsche Bank analyst in Paris, said by e-mail. “For now, timing on further steps is very uncertain.”…
    “Phase 3 auctions are likely to have a much more bearish impact now,” said Konrad Hanschmidt, an analyst at Bloomberg New Energy Finance in London. “The market will need to start absorbing full auction volumes without even a first official signal about the viability of backloading.”.
    Most European governments haven’t decided yet whether to back the commission proposal, according to the bloc’s presidency. Spain is examining the plan amid concern that it may undermine the predictability of the EU carbon trading rules, Federico Ramos de Armas, the nation’s state secretary for environment, said in Warsaw today.
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-04/eu-carbon-pares-gains-after-parliament-sets-carbon-vote

    5 Oct: Bloomberg: Marek Strzelecki/Ewa Krukowska: Spain Says EU Needs Clear Carbon Rules, Examines Backloading
    “What we’re asking for are clear rules for our companies that are not changing in an unexpected way,” he told reporters in Warsaw. “We’re studying the proposal, we don’t know the exact terms yet and we don’t know what our decision will be.” …
    Poland, which relies on coal for more than 90 percent of its electricity needs, has objected to the carbon-permit supply curbs and Environment Minister Marcin Korolec said in July there’s no need to “manipulate” the market.
    Slovakia also opposed the measure, two EU diplomats with knowledge of the talks said last month. The Czech Republic’s Prime Minister Peter Necas said on Sept. 12 his government will probably not support the commission’s plan.
    The Netherlands has also signaled it’s unlikely to back the backloading strategy, though some politicians including Bas Eickhout, a Dutch member of the Green group in the European Parliament, has said the country may change its position after a new government is formed following Sept. 12 elections…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-04/eu-needs-clear-stable-rules-on-carbon-trading-spain-says.html


    Report this

    00

  • #
    pat

    4 Oct: Reuters Africa: Edward Taylor/Alexander Huebner: Deutsche Bank suspends carbon traders – source
    Deutsche Bank has suspended a handful of employees after it was criticised by a judge last year during a trial into tax evasion on carbon permits, a financial source familiar with the matter said on Thursday.
    Deutsche Bank declined to comment on whether any employees had been suspended…
    It was unclear when the traders were suspended. The suspensions were first reported by Germany’s Sueddeutsche Zeitung.
    Since June, when Deutsche Bank’s new co-Chief Executives took the helm, the lender has announced it would make a renewed push to bring about “cultural change,” clarifying the different kinds of behaviour it would not tolerate…
    The EU carbon trading scheme has suffered a series of scandals since its launch in 2005, including permit theft, the recycling of carbon credits and hacking of carbon accounts.
    http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFL6E8L4KXF20121004


    Report this

    00

  • #
    pat

    the only MSM report with Biofuels mentioned in the headline:

    4 Oct: International Business Times: Geetha Pillai: Land Grab High in Developing Countries, Biofuel Targets Key Driver – Oxfam
    Oxfam attributes the unprecedented rush in the land grab to biofuel manufacturers and international investors. It says already an area of land the size of London is being sold to foreign investors every six days in poor countries.
    “Addressing the rush for land is key to tackling global hunger and must be at the heart of the debate when the UK government presides over the G8 next year. The UK should also show leadership in reversing flawed biofuels targets which are a main driver for land and are diverting food into fuel,” said Oxfam’s Chief Executive Barbara Stocking.
    “Investment should be good news for developing countries – not lead to greater poverty, hunger and hardship.”…
    It said the UK “can play a crucial role as president of the G8 next year by putting food and hunger at the heart of the agenda, and addressing land grabs as part of this. Critically, it can also press the EU to reverse biofuels targets – a key driver of land grabs”…
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/391101/20121004/oxfam-land-grab-poverty-hunger-biofuel-uk.htm

    4 Oct: Bloomberg: Sandrine Rastello: World Bank Rejects Oxfam Call to Freeze Land Investment
    Oxfam said the bank plays a pivotal role in land acquisitions through direct financial support for investment in land, policy advice to governments and as a standard setter for other investors…
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-04/world-bank-rejects-oxfam-call-to-freeze-land-investment.html


    Report this

    10

    • #
      Winston

      So, Biofuels are a convenient tool to tip the starving in 3rd world countries off the edge by-
      1. Increasing food and commodity prices and facilitating food speculation via derivatives trading.
      2. By allowing a neo-colonial land grab by unscrupulous Western bankers and other financial parasites to egregiously reduce the arable land available for these poor people to be able to feed themselves in countries where arable land is at a premium (especially if you believe in “climate change” where such land is likely to diminish rapidly)
      3. Carbon offsets which inevitably mean planting trees in plantation forests in 3rd world countries as they become more profitable than planting crops, especially at a subsistence level where the most vulnerable reside.

      So do any of the pro-CAGW trolls here want to “out” themselves as genocidal pricks who support a new wave of deadly colonialism by the West to plunge a spear straight in the heart of developing countries, particularly in Africa? I have raised my voice against this tyranny in the only forum I have access to, what about you lot? You know, your silence and acquiescence on this blog and in the corridors of power (as I believe some of you are Labor Apparatchiks) is really actually complicity. Like Pontius Pilate, your willingness to accept this as collateral damage in mere politics is pathetic- “I am innocent of the blood of this just person; see ye to it.” No responsibility taken at all, I’m sure.


      Report this

      60

      • #
        elva

        Agree wholeheartedly. The Greens and the enormous number of NGOs subsidised by who knows, are creating a situation just as bad or worse than the colonialists of the 15th to 19th centuries. Yet they criticise these colonisations in academia land as having harmed the inhabitants. Some still maintain Australia was brutally invaded by the English in 1788. Yet there was no agriculture practiced by the inhabitants.

        The Africans have only just started down the road to providing their own food. Although tyrants like Mugabe in Zambia have destroyed the agricultural business without outside help.

        There is plenty of oil and other ways to make petrol than using bio fuels. I have an (admittedly unfounded)belief that a lot of oil is not ‘fossil’ fuel. Some could have come from space. A moon of Jupiter, Titan I think, is made from hydrocarbons. Some comets are thought to carry large amounts and may have transported a lot to earth.

        Anyway, oil can be converted to oil. Not as costly or destructive as biofuel production.
        note:-Toyota are giving up on making electric cars…while other makers are just beginning.


        Report this

        10

        • #
          elva

          Correction. Titan is a moon of Saturn. IT is made up of large quantities of complex, repeat, complex, carbohydrates. These are what make oil. They also are very common in space. It was thought that earth produced life from a primordial soup charged by lightning. But the carbohydrates were already here.

          It can be said that life ‘travels’ among the stars and is seeded here and there where conditions are right. So oil or material like it could have been dumped in the earth’s crust by comets, etc, over the 4.6 billion years of its age.


          Report this

          00

  • #

    I saw this earlier, and it made me wonder just how much background Al Gore really checks.

    The left media in the U.S. is madly looking for excuses as to why the President fared so badly at the debate.

    Al Gore has a truly wonderful take on that, something that, well 99 out of 100 Americans might nod their heads with in agreement.

    As we all know, Sporting teams with a lot of money behind them take their teams, or elite athletes to high altitude for better breathing capabilities when they are back at sea level. However, it takes some time to adjust to that altitude, for some anyway. This was most ably seen at the Mexico Olympic Games in 1968, where the rarified Atmosphere led to some athletes not performing very well, especially distance runners. Short burst athletes were not so badly affected, and in fact the altitude actually enhanced their explosive capabilities, shown most dramatically when Bob Beamon leapt that huge jump, breaking the World Record by almost 2 feet, just beyond 29 feet, and setting a record that stood for almost 23 years.

    So, having some (general) knowledge on that, dear old Al Gore mentioned that the problem was that the President only flew in a few hours prior to the debate, and had not yet acclimatised to the high altitude, Denver being 5000 feet above sea level. At the same time, Mitt Romney had been there for days and did all his prep there, hence he was acclimatised.

    All fine really, and quite a lot of people would be sucked in by that, because, as we all know, every word that Al Gore utters is most profound.

    However, it all falls down with Al’s first sentence, where he said that the President FLEW into Denver.

    That was obviously in Air Force One.

    Internal pressure inside large jets is set to the same pressure that is at around 6000 to 8000 feet.

    If the altitude in Denver is so high as to have this effect on the President’s abilities, let’s fervently hope he does not have to make too many decisions whilst aboard Air Force One.

    Al Gore. I guess fact checking is not really his strong point.

    Tony.


    Report this

    70

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Tony,

      This president spends more time aboard Air Force 1 than any other president in history. If he isn’t used to thinking at altitudes averaging 7,000 – 8,000 feet no one is.

      His real problem is that he has nothing to defend himself with. His record is indefensible. His policies are a failure. And as Romney pointed out, if he wanted to do all those grand things he’s proposing now, why didn’t he do them by now? He even had control of both houses of congress for two whole years.

      He’s got to stand up in these debates to save his ass but he has nowhere to run and hide from any criticism. Then there’s the teleprompter problem. The man simply can’t think on his feet. He was a good rabble-rouser as a community organizer — no real brainwork is required to whip up a crowd. But responding to challenges in real time leaves him with nothing but his talking points.

      He flunked the debate because he’s flunked his presidency — pure and simple.

      His real agenda he keeps secret. His qualifications for office are a bluff. He lies so much I would look down to be sure before believing him if he told me he had his shoes on. And yet he still may be reelected.


      Report this

      10

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Tony,

      Yes, the effects of altitude are quite noticeable. But here’s a reference point for you: the demands on a pilot for alertness and good judgment are about as high as they can get. The FAA doesn’t require pilots of unpressurized aircraft to go on oxygen until they climb above 12,500 feet. Passengers are not required to go on oxygen until above 15,000 feet.

      So much for excuses.

      The physical effects can be a different problem. When I square danced in Denver I found out right away that I was a sea level guy.


      Report this

      00

  • #
    Dennis

    I wonder if Al’s emissions trading Chicago Exchange has reopened yet.


    Report this

    00

  • #
    Bruce D Scott

    Yes, good upon you Chris, but are we surprised by the mockumentary maker Gore ? – NO.


    Report this

    00

  • #
    TG McCoy

    Fire Tornadoes and Whirlwinds are quite common. I have seen
    several in my years as an Airtanker Pilot. Glad the Photographer told the “Profit” to stuff it..


    Report this

    20

  • #
    Jonathan Frodsham

    Crakar24: I do not blame you for using profanity’s. People like you have answered to are just useful idiots, yes they get me wild too.


    Report this

    20

    • #
      Crakar24

      JF,

      We have now reached a point where rational debate is impossible, these people have time and time again been presented with evidence to show that their thinking is flawed but still they refuse to accept reality preferring to live in a bubble world of fantasy.

      What you/we are witnessing is what happens when reality meets fantasy, as an example we have John Brooks claiming WV is increasing (as per the theory) i show him a paper which shows his thinking to be wrong and he replies with “i still think WV is increasing”. No evidence to back up his claim just “his thinking”.

      regards

      Crakar24


      Report this

      10