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The spectacle that is the Australian Parliament – top viewing for political tragics around the world

Even if you aren’t in Australia, you can’t help but find the  Australian Parliament the best reality TV show on the box anywhere.

The background: Our Leftie Labor Government was elected with a roughly equal tally of seats as the right leaning coalition, in late 2010. It was such a knife edge, one Labor seat was won by just 400 votes (Corangamite). There were five independents, who would normally be  as important as the wallpaper in the House, but suddenly had supreme power. Our PM Julia Gillard did deals to remake the entire national economy with the one Green member of parliament, promising everything he wanted and more for his vote, even though he would rather walk on glass that vote “right”. (And some say she’s a good negotiator?) She won the support, with deals, platitudes, and pork barreling promises of three of the other four independents — two of whom who were representing rural, conservative electorates, so they did exactly what the members of their own seats didn’t want (those same voters voted very conservatively in the Senate). The whole schmozzle of our hung Parliament is balanced on a knife edge. If only one independent switches support from Labor to the opposition, it’s all over.

Labor’s governing has been so flagrantly awful I’ve heard a story that a Labor branch leader got annoyed that people were suggesting Gillard was as bad as the infamous Whitlam government. (Whitlam et al were so bad they were “sacked” by a governor general in an unprecedented constitutional crisis). The Labor supporter thought Whitlam didn’t deserve to be put in the same category, “he had more class”.

Gillard broke unbreakable promises to win over the independents and thus gain power, and the voters are caning them in the polls. We’re looking at historic wipeouts if an election were held now. If Abbott — the opposition leader — was in control in the House for ten minutes, he’d call an election and, given the current polls, win it resoundingly.

Meanwhile one not-so-upstanding Member of Parliament in the Labor party — Craig Thompson — faces allegations he was a very naughty boy with union funds in his former job as a union top dog. There are thousands of dollars in question, plus receipts for prostitutes on his credit card. It’s all especially rich because his union members are in some of the lowest paid jobs in Australia. He denies he has done anything wrong. If Thomson were to go, a by-election in his seat would likely mean a change of government.  Through diligent dodging and tortuous rule bending the Labor Party have managed to keep him in Parliament for years now, when any normal government would have dumped him like a ticking nuke.

To buy herself an extra vote of safety, Gillard thought it would be smart to attract a turncoat from the other side for what is known as the Speaker’s position. The Speaker in Australian politics sits on a throne in the Chamber, gets to keep order, and importantly doesn’t vote unless the situation is an absolute tie. So it neutralizes one vote of the opposition if she convinces one of them to take the Speaker’s role, which she did. There is a man so toxic  that the opposition were in the process of turfing him out themselves. Because the opposition had given up on Peter Slipper, the Labor Party offered him the highly paid Speaker’s job, and he took it. Not surprisingly, it’s only taken a matter of months for his sordid past to be laid bare — can he really justify all those odd cab-charge expenses, and did he send those text messages which appear to be sexual-harrassment-writ-large? Peter Slipper denies he has done anything wrong.

It’s all on today — Gillard has finally had to stop enthusiastically endorsing both these men. Thomson appears to be quitting the Labor Party so he’ll be an “independent” member of Parliament, but we all know he won’t vote to take down a government that will end this gravy train job. Most of the so-called independents are running scared from an election — the turncoats will be turfed out of Parliament at the next election, and the others will lose their moment of import in the sun.

Bring out your popcorn. Will we get an early election sometime this year or will we have to wait until late 2013 for the next one? Will Bill Shorten take over the Labor party, and if he does will he dump the Carbon Tax, or neutralize it by dropping the price?

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The spectacle that is the Australian Parliament - top viewing for political tragics around the world, 8.9 out of 10 based on 136 ratings

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340 comments to The spectacle that is the Australian Parliament – top viewing for political tragics around the world

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    MudCrab

    You left out the bonus ‘joy’ of Bill Shorten’s recent Sky News interview.


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    MadJak

    I really thought I had seen atrocious governance but absolutely nothing in the west compares to this utterly corrupt, stupid, arrogant, lying, ignorant, delusional pack of freeloading unionist commisars as far as I’m concerned.

    We have gone from having almost no debt to 25% of GDP debt in the space of less than 5 years. We have endured central governance schemes filled to the gills with union mates making the most incompetant, dangerous and wasteful decisions.

    The only consistent thing we have have come to expect over the last 5 years is that if Guilleard or any of her cronies announce anything, it will be expensive, decieptful, poorly governed and atrociously thought out.

    And now after 3 years after the Thomson corruption allegations came to light, Guilleard finally decides to take the moral high ground. Nothing has changed from 3 years ago other than the 3 year delay by the government with the useless Fair work australia inquiry which has been such an obvious stalling tactic to prolong this illegitamate governments reign.

    How much more do we have to tolerate? It’s time to put this useless excuse of a Government out of it’s (and our) misery.

    Queensland has led the way, the ALP is down on the floor, now please let the rest of us put the boot in. Please!


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    • #
      Speedy

      Madjak

      Can I agree with you twice please?

      Pretty please?

      Thanks,

      Speedy


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      • #
        MadJak

        Speedy,

        Thanks for that. I would rather have an honest number of thumbs up.

        You see, I’m not an ALP cheat, an ALP Liar or an ALP thief – I would rather lose honestly than do a Guilleard and game the system.

        I sure wish the rusted on ALP die hard fanatics would stop pissing down our backs and telling us it’s raining though.


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          Bob of Castlemaine

          So I take it you’re not a supporter of the “vote early and vote often” principle MadJak?


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          • #
            MadJak

            Bob,

            So I take it you’re not a supporter of the “vote early and vote often” principle MadJak?

            That is correct, I’m not an ALP supporter.

            Gee the thumbs up/Down look a bit like a queensland election result – the thumbs up should be blue rather than green though, I think.


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    • #
      MH

      Start bombarding the Independents’ email boxes , they need to be swamped with emails. The only way to get rid of this Government is to have a vote of no confidence . I can’t stand having to wait nearly 18 more months to get rid of Labor . The voters have to send out a clear heavy message to the Independents . There has been talk of Kevin Rudd replacing Gillard in the next coming weeks . What a mess to have him back in the seat , from Gestapo Woman to Psycho Man , heaven help us all !


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  • #
    Graeme No.3

    I support that Labor Branch leader. Whitlam may not have known what he was doing, and was surrounded by advisors and ministers similarly affected, but he had some competent Ministers and a deal of what was done was for the good of australians. While there were instances of minor corruption and an insane minister out of control, the general behaviour was far more honest and “above board” than the current disaster.
    This mob are corrupt, dishonest and above all determined to “spin” everything, trying to look good.

    I will probably be lambasted for saying it, but until this year my opinion was that the worst PM since WW2 was Fraser, not Whitlam. (Reasoning that Whitlam didn’t know what he was doing whereas Fraser knew what he should be doing, but dithered). This year I have new candidates for worst PM and worst government, and the choice will be very obvious.


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      Apoxonbothyourhouses

      Lambasted for restating the obvious? Certainly not Graeme – Fraser was easily the worst PM. Dithered? Anyone who worked in industry when he was PM will tell you that’s generous as clueless would be more appropriate. It breaks me up that the media and the ABC in particular seek quotes from a political failure. He had no ideas at the time and even fewer now.


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      • #
        Graham Richards

        Talk about bad judgement……….,
        Fraser proclaimed Mugabe “Africa’s greatest statesman”.
        {Mind you looking looking at the collective African leaders, maybe he was right.] I’ve confused myself!!!!!!!

        Can’t remember if that was before or after Fraser lost his trousers in some foreign capital


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      Bone Idle

      If you think Whitlam didn’t know what he was doing you were obviously not there.
      He and 5 cronies ran Australia like a fiefdom for the initial months of his tenure. The decisions he and these pals made during those months destroyed the fabric of Australian governance up until that time. Even one of those cronies was obviously “love” addled and decisions were being made by his girlfriend.

      And if you where there you know that Whitlam and the labor party were annihilated at the election after his dismissal.

      There is a difference between a government being destructive of Australian society fabric and plain old incompetence.


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      • #
        MH

        Too right Bone Idle !

        Whitlam was bad , destroyed businesses , was mad keen on borrowing money and now we have this current Labor Government following in their incompetent footsteps and even worse still to come .What is it with Labor Governments all they think of is in destroying this Country . Look at the thousands of jobs and industries that have moved overseas or are closing down .They have put massive financial pressures on families . What else have they got left to destroy ? Their MPs have turned their backs on their own electorates , ignoring their constituents , but they (MPs )will be okay because financially they wont have a money problem with their healthy superplan , they are set for life !


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          Graham Richards

          The “destructive factor”is the socialist philosophy.
          Destroy the wealth creators [because they are evil,greedy folk...] and spread their wealth around to the “wealth consumers”, the bone idle parasites who only want free of charge, what others work hard for.

          Socialist ideology which is openly fostered on a daily basis by the likes of Gillard, Swan, and the rest of the ALP Caucus is the problem.

          Look at Europe and the socialists there to understand what the ALP really wants to achieve……right down to their encouragement of so called asylum seekers. European socialist have purposely encouraged non European immigrants to enter Europe. I believe that what the ALP is doing is exactly the same ……water down the Australian nation to weaken it. You work out what the ultimate objective is!!!
          It is pretty obvious.


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          • #
            MH

            Graham Richards

            April 30, 2012 at 7:13 pm ·

            The “destructive factor”is the socialist philosophy.
            Destroy the wealth creators [because they are evil,greedy folk...] and spread their wealth around to the “wealth consumers”, the bone idle parasites who only want free of charge, what others work hard for.

            Socialist ideology which is openly fostered on a daily basis by the likes of Gillard, Swan, and the rest of the ALP Caucus is the problem.

            Look at Europe and the socialists there to understand what the ALP really wants to achieve……right down to their encouragement of so called asylum seekers. European socialist have purposely encouraged non European immigrants to enter Europe. I believe that what the ALP is doing is exactly the same ……water down the Australian nation to weaken it. You work out what the ultimate objective is!!!
            It is pretty obvious.

            So true! Graham Richards,

            You would think that Australia would have learnt from what has happened in Britain and Europe. Yet it appears we have not learnt anything from their huge mistakes and look where they are today , they are basically stuffed . We have allowed Labor along with the Greens Agenda to quickly change Australia and follow Britain and Europe .Are we losing our Country ? I think we are seeing something is for sure changing .


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  • #
    ursus augustus

    This is terribly sexist I know but even my wife laughed out loud when I suggested to her today when this new broke that Julia Gillard asking these two apparent grubs to step aside or suspend their ambitions was about as redeeming as a pole dancer putting on a fig leaf.


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    KeithH

    I’m predicting some disgruntled member of the Health Services Union which was recently dumped on by the ACTU will tip a bucket on Federal Labour and ask why the AWU wasn’t similarly treated after the huge fraudulent misuse of funds particularly in the period 1992-95 and the further shocking standard of bookkeeping from 1995 -98 as highlighted in the report of auditors at the time.

    It has been interesting to hear the tough talk of former AWU office-holder Bill Shorten in relation to allegedly seeing ordinary HSU members get a fair go. However, he reportedly promised years ago to see that the so-and-so’s responsible repaid every cent of AWU money misappropriated, so it is relevant to ask how much of the $500,000 – $1,000,000 he has so far managed to recover?

    For further background and a who’s who of those involved, see the Victorian Hansard. It is interesting to see the positions to which Ian Cambridge, who lodged an affidavit with allegations about the AWU misappropriations and I believe called for a Royal Commission into it, and others have been appointed.

    http://imfiplc.blogspot.com/2011/08/gillard-at-slater-and-gordon-awu.html

    Many honest Union and true Labor Party members should be asking a lot of questions. And for those who think “nasty” conservatives are behind it, consider this statement by Julia Gillard on Australian Story.

    Julia Gillard Interview Transcript – Part 2

    PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT: Sunday, 12 March , 2006

    “I’d struggled over a long period of time to get pre selected, I’d run a number of pre selections, there was lots of carry on in the Labor party as there always is, the nasty side of the culture well and truly on display so I had ended up being defeated for a number of pre selections, I ultimately managed to secure pre selection for the 1996 election as number 3 on the Senate ticket, so when Phil Gude raised these allegations in state parliament, my recollection is that was in and around the time of the pre selections even at that stage I didn’t know for sure that you know Labor party people had urged Phil Gude to do this, but it became apparent to me afterwards when one of his staff members basically indicated to me that that was the case so it was just you know another thing that happened in what had been an on going set of very unpleasant battles and experiences within Labor about getting pre selected, so in some senses I guess I wasn’t surprised, it make you angry and all of that but it certainly doesn’t shock you when you have been around Labor politics for a while.”


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    • #
      Rod Stuart

      Not to mention the Robert Kernohan stat dec, the mention of which cost two radio journalists their jobs last August. Just google Robert Kernohan; I think his declaration is still on the ‘net. One could think it too incredible to be true, but then, if it were false, wouldn’t you think the Red Queen would have taken him to task rather than put the heat on the Murdoch paper?


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        KeithH

        Follow all the timelines and events from 1992 on Rod and you’ll find most of them are linked, up to and including the Finkelstein Report designed to shut down any source of justified criticism of the Government and actions both past and present of various members!

        There is a huge amount on public record for anyone to research and if that wasn’t so, “One could think it too incredible to be true” as you say. The cover-ups involved in the major fraud against the AWU and for which no one has faced justice, have to be seen to be believed. One law for ordinary people but not for those in positions of power? Now more than ever, in the face of the amount of evidence on record, Australians should demand that the questions put to the P.M’s Deparment by the 2UE journalist who was forced out of his job by unseemly pressure as a result, be properly answered!


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  • #
    Amused public servant

    Well as deserved as Qld Labor were to be terminated with extreme prejudice, don’t hold your breath on the replacements.

    The tally so far – Police Minister axed, one new Director-General (DG) lasted a week, all depts in paralysis, no direction, arbitrary departmental collections of functions, new Ministerial and new DGs egos running riot, squabbling aplenty, millions to be spent reconnecting IT systems after the other lot reorganised them twice.

    Consultation on how we public servants might actually help them implement their mandate – zero.

    Wait for the wheels to start falling off. Only Lawrence Springborg has any Ministerial experience.

    Of course you could be in NSW where O’Farrell is noted for doing nothing. Low target approach.

    Does any group of politicians have any talent/sense/acumen. Maybe not.


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      Titas Aduxas

      Didn’t take you long APS,What Campbell and his government is dealing with is a disaster of enormous proportions,Most of the damage was done by an over inflated public service, The red and green tape left behind the discredited Bligh junta will take years to fix, I am someone at the wrong end of it.
      I just hope he sorts you bastards out once and for all,He has started with Blighs husband, the recipient of thousands of our dollars, doing nothing for it.
      The damage you bludgers have caused under the labor banner borders on the criminal.I hope life becomes hard for you and yours,like you made it for me and mine.


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      ExWarmist

      I’m sorry Aps, but you seem to be assuming that the activities of the public service actually add value to society, and that therefore public service inactivity is a problem?

      Can you please demonstrate that the public services, return at least 1 dollar in value for every dollar that they consume. Please break down the analysis by states and federal departments.

      I would like to see if you or anyone else could demonstrate a value proposition for government in australia that provides a return on investment in excess of 25 cents on the dollar.

      Think about the federal departments such as Health and Education that are totally useless duplication of the respective state departments that could be shut down tomorrow and not be missed by anyone that doesn’t work there. Defense is a mess with billions wasted on job programs that don’t deliver actual deployable military capability. Then there are departments for fantasy problems such as climate change.

      Government in Australia is currently an extractive parasite that is only interested in sucking up resources from the productive elements of Australian society and them promptly flushing them down a toilet with a sarcastic, entitled “because we can” attitude.

      Don’t get me wrong, there is a role for government in society, but the current beast has so much bloated fat on it, that it could be cut, and cut again, before we would get to the lean machine that would be a cost-effective, useful organisation in the service of Australia (instead of in the service of its self).


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      • #
        MH

        The Gillard Government keeps proving why they should NOT be in Government . We must be the laughing stock of the World and the Independents have alot to answer for ruining this Country and placing Labor into Office . I want my Country back and out of Labor’s destructive hands !


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        • #
          A.V.

          MH

          I agree with every word you wrote. We have been lied to, cheated, embarrassed on the world stage, deceived and trashed.

          Gillard and her morabund cohorts have a fantasy that we are non-thinking Voters. Wait and see Gillard. Wait and see.

          Forget parachuting Bob Carr into her position you back room boys. It won’t change the Election result.

          You have brought the Country down to base level and we’ve had enough. Goodbye Gillard. Goodbye you comlicit misfits!


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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        ExWarmist

        It might be useful if we separated the concepts of Politicians, Political Parties, Government, Departments (Agencies), and the Public Service. They are four distinct things, and often do not see eye to eye.

        Then of course there is the UN, and the various Secretariats of UN Agencies that are often a law unto themselves. Not to mention the NGO’s which are virtually departments of the UN “on contract” as it were.

        Each of these “entities” communicate (“liaises”) with all of the others, in varying degrees.

        And so relationships between “officials” form. These relationships can outlast Governments, and will certainly outlast individual politicians.

        It is these networks of “officials” that actually “engineer” changes to society.

        They do it in exactly the same way that you ride a horse. A horse is big and powerful and far stronger than the rider, but they are also sensitive animals that respond to touch. So the way to ride a horse is to discourage it from going in any direction other than where the rider wants to go.

        A good bureaucrat can always think of multiple reasons why something will be a bad idea, and will only demure when the political side of the equation comes up with the “right” answer.

        “Yes Minister”, although a parody, is not far short of the mark. Accept that it is not just “Sir Humphrey”, but a whole bunch of “Sir Humphrey’s” who are more concerned with keeping the public machine running smoothly, and consistently, and indefinitely, than they are in making a better world for the populace.

        The politicians are “helpful idiots” who are their to take the spotlight away from the real movers and shakers, and the political parties are mostly just a chorus line in the theatre of the spectacular traveling election show. The politicians are also there to take the bullet if the public service makes a stuff-up.

        To the bureaucrat, drastic change equals significant risk.

        So the role of the public service has changed little, since Tudor England. They would argue that their role is the maintenance of a stable society within which people can go about their business.

        So if they can consume a dollar of your money, to make it easier for you to make another dollar twenty-five, then they would claim to have achieved their purpose.


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        • #

          Rereke,

          So the role of the public service has changed little, since Tudor England.

          I might politely suggest the genesis may even have been around 300 years earlier when the land barons forced the Magna Carta on the Plantagenet King John.

          Tony.


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          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            Tony,

            Prior to Henry VII, the church were the official keepers of records, and most of the Kings servants were from the minor noble families. The King and most Nobles had Private Secretaries (all male) who kept their private records and managed the correspondence. These Secretaries were drawn from the minor Nobility. There was no sense of continuity further than the current generation, and perhaps the next.

            After Bosworth Field, Henry became King of a bankrupt kingdom, so he recruited people of the “Civil” class (as opposed to the Church) as servants to administer the treasury, and keep records of important matters, such as who owed the crown money, and how much of the Kings deer was being lost to poaching, etc. This was in addition to his Private Secretary and private servants, which still formed their previous functions.

            The Civil Service, from its inception had the same long-term view as the Church, but did the King’s bidding rather than the Pope’s.

            To this day, the Public Service in Britain is still referred to as the “Civil Service”, and is still a major route to Knighthoods etc.

            A final thought, the Civil Service still employes people to do “Clerical” functions, such as record keeping. Such is the nature of the English language.


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          • #

            Rereke,

            thanks, and say, isn’t this just a wonderful example of how lucky we were that Arthur Phillip beat La Perouse into Sydney Cove by five days.

            English history is such a wonderful and bountiful subject to explore.

            Pity only school children get to hear it and then we all forget it.

            Thanks Rereke for the clarification.

            Tony.


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        • #
          ExWarmist

          Hi Rereke,

          I agree with you – there are many nuances, and I was using a broad brush.

          Just one point – when I was talking about a return of 25 cents in the dollar, I was expressing, spending 1 dollar to get 25 cents in value – with the other 75 cents lost to the system/entropy.

          So if they can consume a dollar of your money, to make it easier for you to make another dollar twenty-five, then they would claim to have achieved their purpose.

          If government was capable of returning (or assisting in) 25% real growth on an investment – I would be a big fan of government. But to get that sort of rate I would have to be a “Special Interest”.


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          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            In my defence, please note that I did use the “If” word.

            In my view, a Public Service provides some useful outcomes such as the maintenance of law and order, defence of the country, and the provision of emergency services. I am quite happy to pay the Government for those things, because they are necessary, but are also definitely not commercially viable.

            I am not happy to pay for somebody to come and count my cows and tell me that I am under/over stocked in the light of impending climate change.

            A good test of any role in the Public Service is to ask, what benefit does that role bring to the wellbeing of the citizens? If counting cows has no public benefit, then why the hell are they doing it?


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            ExWarmist

            Hi Rereke,

            I couldn’t agree more.

            Cheers EW


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        • #
          Geoff Sherrington

          Sir Humphrey: “Avoiding precedents does not mean nothing should ever be done. It only means that nothing should ever be done for the first time.”


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        Cookster

        Well said Ex Warmist and Rereke. My read is Aps is a typical reaction by those who constitute the “regulating class”. The regulating class exists for itself and not the public they are supposed to serve or even the elected politicians.

        It seems these days that the term ‘Public Servant’ is often an oxymoran to them as well as us. The regulating class either exists in a bubble (Aps?) or strive to create a bubble to protect their own power oblivious to those who really make the world go around. Trouble is the regulating classes are ‘fed’ by taxes generated through economic activity by the rest of society.

        In other words the productive feed the un productive. This is not a sustainable economic situation as Europe is now finding out. In recent years people I know often ask, ‘where does all the money (tax) go?’ Answer: the Bureaucracy.

        Australia is fortunate to have a wealth of natural resources in high demand by China or else either the Labor party could not have implemented it’s spendathon or Australia would now be in a similar economic situation to Europe no thanks to those like Aps.


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      brc

      Nothing makes me happier than seeing a QLD public servant crying into their beer.

      Now you know what it has been like for the rest of us for all these years. You inflicted pain upon pain upon pain on the QLD public. Now you’re going to reap the whirlwind. It’s a shame that many good people will probably be lost in the axings, but then, so many good businesses and lives have been lost due to public service incompetence.

      I’m glad your working life is uncomfortable. And I hope it makes you reflect on who produces and who consumes the wealth of this country. Maybe you’ll even go and get a job creating something useful. But you won’t because any sufficient time with the public service makes you unemployable.


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      • #
        crakar24

        BRC,

        Before you slander the whole APS work force i would just like to state for the record that we here at the department of defence work very, very, very hard when compared to our distant cousins that work for the “government”.

        Yours truly

        A very hard working APS employee


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          MattB

          yeah yeah pull the other one.


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          A/C

          Yer I work for the MoD here in the UK, the grunts maybe very, very, very hard workers but this is vastly out weighed by the complete waste and incompetence.

          Jo I’ve change to A/C because I didn’t fully read the bit of paper they made me sign so not 100% sure if I can say who I work for, remember if your not terrorised the Government ain’t working.


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          Rereke Whakaaro

          I have also worked for MoD.

          In fact I did it twice. Once on a Monday, and then on a Thursday.


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      Bob of Castlemaine

      I guess APS when you find, as Newman has, that you’ve inherited a smouldering, ransacked hulk, with record levels of government debt, then it takes a while to work out what can be salvaged and just where to start.


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  • #
    Kevin Moore

    http://barnabyisright.com/

    The lying is without end.

    From Yahoo!7 News:

    Ms Gillard said both state and federal revenues had been hit hard by the global financial crisis and were in the same boat.

    “For the federal government, our revenues have been hit by $140 billion – it’s an extraordinary amount of money.

    “(But) we have matched all of our expenditure with savings since mid-2009 – that’s the hard work of government.

    No, that’s two lies in two sentences.

    First, as we have seen previously ( Wayne’s “Per Cent Of GDP” Lies Debunked, Our Media In $140 Billion Lie For Wayne ), “our” total government revenues have actually gone up, by $23.67 billion in 2010-11 vs 2007-08 (pre-GFC). And for this year 2011-12, the government’s November ’11 forecast was for an increase in Total Revenue of $37.41 billion vs 2007-08. The truth is, the only thing that has been “hit”, is the Treasury department’s wildly exaggerated May Budget forecasts. You know … those grand annual smoke ‘n mirrors performances, where the Treasurer tells the nation what a great job he is going to do in the next year, using deceitful words that project an appearance that he has already achieved it … and then, never actually does it.

    About Gillard’s second lie.

    As we have also seen previously, the government’s Expenditure has blown out by a whopping $91.64 billion versus 2007-08. But in Gillard’s statement, she claimed that the ALP has “matched all of our expenditure with savings since mid-2009″.

    Oh really?

    In the 2009-10 financial year, the government spent $339.23 billion.

    In the 2010-11 financial year, the government spent $356.1 billion.

    And this year, the government most recently forecast that they will spend … wait for it … $371.74 billion.

    So, they spent $16 billion more in 2010-11 than they did in 2009-10. And they expect to spend $31.58 billion more this year, than in 2009-10.

    But Gillard claimed that Labor has “matched all of our expenditure with savings” since mid-2009?!

    If we took her words 100% literally, we would rightly ask, “Ok, show us where you saved $356.1 billion in 2010-11 and $371.74 billion this year?”

    But let us be generous.

    Can Gillard show us where the government actually “saved” $16 billion in 2010-11, and $31.58 billion this year? That is, savings equivalent to the extra government spending in those years, versus the year she referenced, 2009-10?

    Of course not!

    The simple truth is, this government has spent more (borrowed) money, every single year since coming to power.

    Far more.

    And, they are bringing in more Total Revenue than ever before.

    This government’s mode of lying about the budget is very simple.

    Every claim they make about “falling” revenue, or “write-downs” to revenue, or “hits” to revenue, or revenues supposedly “lost” to “global economic turmoil” or “the floods” or this or that or the other, is a lie.

    Actual government revenue in total, is UP. It is only “down”, or “lost”, by comparison to their wildly exaggerated annual May budget “forecasts”.

    And every claim they make about government spending, is also a lie.

    They are spending literally tens of billions more money now, four (4) years after the GFC, than any Australian government has ever spent.

    Every statement uttered by this government about the budget, and its economic management, is a lie, distortion, or misdirection.

    I have never witnessed a more corrupt, more blatantly and repeatedly dishonest pack of politicians in this country in my lifetime.


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      old44

      Think the way Labor do, if you are on track to waste $1,000 million this year and you cost cut, and only waste $800 million, you have saved $200 million.


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    GAZ

    Good summary Jo, especially for non-Australians. But where is “there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead”?


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    Peter Lang

    Jo asks

    Will Bill Shorten take over the Labor party, and if he does will he dump the Carbon Tax, or neutralize it by dropping the price?

    But that is nowhere near good enough. Because any method to price carbon will cost us squillions eventually. This gives me the opportunity to past the contents of letters to the Minsiter for Climate Change asking about the compliance cost of CO2 pricing.

    Dear Minister Combet,

    Re: DCCEE letter C12/1233, dated 17 April 2012

    Today I received a one and half page letter from DCCEE in reply to an email I sent you on 2 April 2012.

    The DCCEE letter contained 14 paragraphs; 13 paragraphs were irrelevant to my question and only one paragraph related to my question – but did not answer it.

    My question asked:

    Where I can find an estimate of what the compliance cost of the ETS will be when fully implemented to the standard that will eventually be required? (I have not been able to find such an estimate, including on the Treasury, DRET or DCCEE web sites).

    I then went on to elaborate that my question was about the total compliance cost for an ETS when it is implemented to the standard that will eventually be required to support trade in (virtually) unmeasurable commodities (emissions of CO2 and other gasses). The question was not about the DCCEE’s administration cost for the years 2011-12 to 2014-15.

    I would appreciate an answer to my actual question.

    For completeness, I include below the full content of my email with my question and the elaboration of it.

    Peter Lang
    —–Original Message—–
    From: Peter Lang
    Sent: Monday, 2 April 2012 11:58 AM
    Subject: Compliance cost for the ETS when fully implemented to the standard that will be required

    Dear Members of Parliament and Senators,

    Where I can find an estimate of what the compliance cost of the ETS will be when fully implemented to the standard that will eventually be required? (I have not been able to find such an estimate, including on the Treasury, DRET or DCCEE web sites).

    Expansion of my question and some thoughts follow:

    What would be the compliance cost for the ETS once it is fully implemented and running at the level of accuracy required for trading the commodity (CO2-e) and at the level of financial security from fraud that will be expected? For example, what will be the annual cost for:

    – Public servants in DCCEE, Treasury, ATO, Australian Federal Police, state police forces, state bureaucracies, Attorneys’ General Departments, Federal Department of Resources, Energy and Tourism, ABARE, BREE, the equivalent state departments of energy, resources, agriculture, forestry, environment, Prime Minister and Cabinet, State departments of Premier and Cabinet, the law courts, High Court, goals, any others I haven’t thought of?

    – The businesses that have to report their emissions – what is the cost to implement and maintain the monitoring equipment and to report? What is the cost to update and replace equipment, reporting systems and legacy data each time the rules change (as they do every few years)?

    – Farmers and all the upstream and downstream industries (farming will be included eventually if the tax and ETS remain)

    – Accountants, lawyers, accounting firms, law firms, courts?

    – Firms that use the data, analyse it and report? What is the cost for them to have to maintain and continually update their systems and legacy data?

    – What about the compliance cost for purchasing overseas carbon credits?

    I understand some of the costs involved in doing what the US legislation requires the US EPA to do (clearly we would have to move to that level of accountability and beyond it eventually), would be in the order of $21 billion per year. These two links provide some insight into the current requirements in the USA http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/business/ecmps/docs/ECMPSEMRI2009Q2.pdf
    http://www.epa.gov/airmarkt/emissions/docs/plain_english_guide_par75_final_rule.pdf
    We can only guess what the costs would be for the businesses involved and all the organisations who take this data and analyses it. Notice that the rules have been changing (for emissions other than CO2) every few years for about the last three decades (roughly); think of the compliance cost that imposes.

    The EPA recently stated in a court submission that the cost to the EPA alone to implement and manage in accordance with the existing laws would cost $21 billion per year. That is not a typo. They estimated they would have to increase their permanent staff numbers from 17,000 to 233,000 permanent employees. The cost to business could be expected to be at least ten times the EPA’s cost, and the other departments who have a role to play would probably double the EPA’s cost.

    What does this mean for Australia? Well, initially Australia does not intend to monitor or measure its emissions. It will simply estimate them (very crudely). The system set up by AEMO to estimate electricity system emissions is very crude. It is nowhere near the standard the USA or even the Europeans are doing. I am sure we will have to get up to best practice eventually. That means big increases in compliance cost as time goes on. And this is for electricity emissions only. What happens when the compliance requirements are extended to all businesses emitting CO2 emissions, as will be required eventually.

    To repeat my question, where can I find an estimate of the compliance cost for the ETS and for emissions monitoring at the level of accuracy and accountability that will ultimately be required for trading CO2-e emissions?


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      Peter Lang

      Oh, by the way, the one paragraph where the Department did refer to my question, contained only one sentence that referred to the question; it said:

      The Clean Energy Regulator will be established to administer the carbon pricing mechanism and will cost $256 million over the period to [sic] 2011-12 to 2014-15.

      That was the only sentence in the whole 1 1/2 page letter of 14 paragraphs that had any reference to my question. As you can see, even that sentence did not go anywhere near answering my question.

      Some may conclude that the Department is just as devious as the government.

      However, we are supposed to be able to trust the government Departments to be providing “frank and fearless advice to the Government”. Clearly that is not happening with the Department of Climate Change and Energy Efficency.


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    KeithH

    As one assessment of the carbon dioxide tax put it:

    The (compensation) package will produce a $4 billion hit to the revenue over the first 4 years as the compensation and spending associated with it are greater than the revenue raised. For this reason it is fairly likely that in the future the Government will need to cut budget expenditure on hospitals, schools and roads to pay for that shortfall. Effectively what this means is that working class people will pay for the largess to the polluters.”

    We all know the unpleasant end results of spending more than you bring in! Wayne Swan and Julia Gillard have made it an art form!


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    Catamon

    Truly wonderfully readable OP!

    Objectively, where do we stand, politically at the beginning of the next session of Parliament? What does the data say?

    ALP 71
    Lib/Nat 71

    Bandt / Wilke / Oakshott / Windsor / Katter / Crook / Thomson

    Slipper (speaker) Stood aside: not able to cast a deliberative vote while officially Speaker.

    In a vote of no-confidence the ALP can muster 75 if they have Wilke’s vote and 74 if he’s feeling bitchy that day.

    In a vote of no-confidence the Coalition can muster 74 if they have Wilke’ vote and 73 if he’s feeling rational that day.

    ALP wins either on the floor, or after the ALP speaker (Anna Burke) follows convention and votes against the motion.

    Now they have a Budget to get through in May. How’s supply looking? Well, not too bad actually. Same vote patterns possible, and it has been argued that the Speaker can vote for Budget legislation in the event of a tie and not be in defiance of convention.

    Meanwhile, two of the Opposition front bench are facing civil action (Abbott, Mirabella) and we haven’t heard a peep from anyone that they should stand down as Shadow ministers. Curious that our paladins of truth out in skeptic land aren’t on top of this one?

    Meanwhile, there seem to be many who hope that Mr Abbott will become PM soon and that he is lying about supporting action on Carbon Emission reduction through his Direct Action policy, but……… that horrible Gillard woman lied an so should be hounded out of office. You want to watch him you know, not so long ago he was supporting a Carbon Tax, and that’s written down!

    Will we get an early election sometime this year or will we have to wait until late 2013 for the next one?

    Nope, election after August 2013. Carbon Price and MRRT starting July 1st.

    I reckon that what we have just seen is a pre-budget deck clearing exersise. I’d think that Mr Abbott will be watching his back from now on. After July 1st he will have obviously and comprehensively failed on pretty much his entire disruption agenda since becoming LOTO, and 15 mths out from an election the Coalition he leads has nothing in the way of substantive policy in play. That at a time when the ALP’s agenda is starting to actually deliver to people on the ground.

    The big question though, is there enough popcorn in the world!


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      Dave

      .
      CO2atamongst

      It’ll be great on one hand that after August 2013 – we won’t see you any more! :)

      Nope, election after August 2013

      Unemployed! EH! EH! EH!

      And also along with 9.3kg reduced John Brookes :)


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      Bruce of Newcastle

      “Nope, election after August 2013.”

      You are really vindictive Catamon! Another year of torture to every single ALP pollie who has to front the cameras? I wouldn’t wish that even on Julia Gillard!

      ABC TV 7pm news bulletin sank the boot in, Uhlmann and Simkim double act. It wasn’t pretty.

      My calc is this:

      X = Thomson asked nicely to leave ALP sit on cross bench
      Y = Slipper told don’t come back until we tell you, and
      Z = more leadership speculation

      where X + Y + Z = very very very bad internal polling

      This is so much fun. The carbon tax is dragging them down like the tar baby. Man, the rank and file must absolutely hate it. In their cups they must wish it all will end cleansingly and soon.


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        Catamon

        Uhlmann and Simkim double act.

        And you’d take the Toolman and Simpering seriously?

        Unemployed! EH! EH! EH!

        Dave, why would i be unemployed after the next election?


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          Dave

          .
          Catamongst,

          You’ve got to pay attention – the new man is now 0.9 meters high (see KK question previous thread) and you and John (Brookes) have already reduced your brain size by 1/8 it’s size (which happens to be only 2% of total body weight) – hence your very near future unemployability!

          Since the brain requires 15% of the cardiac output, 20% of total body oxygen consumption, and 25% of total body glucose utilization you are now classified as less than the lower 1/8 of the population of the same height of 0.9 meters. But currently you rate between a CAT and a PIGEON in ability and brain function.

          This is evident in your comments, and also the level of understanding of the real world!


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          Dave

          .
          Catamongst – you ask:

          Dave, why would i be unemployed after the next election?

          Capital I – please. Not bad for someone with a 12.5% brain capacity – that’s just an opinion not a statistical model on you or anyone related to your type of thinking!


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    warcroft

    I was thinking today about the next election campaign. The Coalition should just run tv and print ads saying:

    “Labor? Really?”

    I dont think Liberal need to say anything more than that.


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      Juliar

      The Coalition have so much advertising material for the next election plus on top of that, good ole Clive, Gina and Twiggy will be pumping loads of money into it.


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        MH

        Julia ……………and don’t forget the big bickies that the Unions give to the Labor Party . There is a cap placed on donations in case you don’t know , with exceptions to the UNIONS they can give as much as they want , the rest of everyone are capped at $5,000, the Unions can give $1M or any figure they want to Labor . Everyone else has to stick to $5,000 and under !


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    Jo says: “It was such a knife edge, one Labor seat was won by just 400 votes….”

    We mustn’t forget that the despicable Anna Rose’s husband The Sheik of Araby GetUp forced the electoral rolls re-opened even tho everyone has a responsibility to get themselves on the electoral roll as soon as they are eligible.

    How many dead and no-existing citizens enrolled after Simon’s challenge to the courts?


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    warcroft

    Anna Rose is getting hammered over at Climate Depot! Almost every article is about Anna getting knocked out by Marc Morano and his awesome speech.
    Anna was truely speechless. She had nothing. She got KTFO!


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      Joe V.

      Anna Rose may be scientifically & politically naive, but she sees and styles herself as a leading activist.

      As some partner of one of the founders of that insidious cancer on the youth of Australia, the GetUp! movement, she also claims to have founded her own movement, Australian Youth Climate Coalition, and sees herself as something of a ‘Transformational Activist’ with an op ed piece here, at her mind bending ‘MadLands‘ site.

      The former Soviet controlled Eastern Bloc were very keen on building their youth movements, as too became Germany in the late 30′s .

      Now we see a concerted attempt to build multiple, mass movements in Australia, to hijack the fertile minds of it’s Youth, and all emanating from or around this individual.

      We see numerous references to the methods of religious cult builders in her ‘writings’ which she seems to admire & hold up as examples.

      Could We get Youth similarly enthused about, saving Science, Rational Thinking & Enlightenment I wonder, rather than in just telling other people what to think.


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        KeithH

        “Could We get Youth similarly enthused about, saving Science, Rational Thinking & Enlightenment I wonder, rather than in just telling other people what to think.”

        There’s a chance Joe V for some enterprising young person to get a group together and put in for a grant for “Saving Science, Rational Thinking & Enlightenment”. Simply add “And how it will be affected by Climate Change”. They could score $275,000 like the AYCC has done!


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        ExWarmist

        Anna Rose is lit up with the light of the promised land (Utopia) while studiously ignoring the blood drenched mass graves that sit in Utopia’s shadow.

        (although it is possible that she is aware of those as well – and doesn’t care as she imagines her opponents as dehumanised beasts that can be eliminated with moral impunity – 10-10 video anyone?).


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        My guess.

        Look to Anna Rose as the next big thing for Labor.

        She will not run at the next election because anything attached with the suffix Labor will be on the nose, as Labor gets humiliated, so being the type she is, she will be advised by husband Simon Sheikh not to run, umm, she would not want to be associated with unmitigated disaster, umm, she will not seek election, saying that her current interests are too varied to be able to devote all her time to Politics, you know, the usual blah blah blah!

        However, at the following election, when, as usual, and as will be expected ,there will be that clawing back of some of that Labor vote, then look for Anna Rose to be preselected in Labor Heartland, and for a meteoric rise through the ranks.

        I mean, look how well that worked for another female Labor lawyer.

        She has the background, and all that is needed is that one last thing. On election night, at the victory celebrations for each new Labor member, the local branch gives each new member a set of Staysharp knives.

        Then she’ll have the complete package to go off to Canberra with.

        Tony.


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    En Passant

    Can we find just one demented soul who will swear he voted Leberal/Nationa’s last election, but has changed his/her/its mind and is determined to vote for either Labor or the Greens next time.


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      Apoxonbothyourhouses

      No but I’m intent on voting informal as a protest against the coalition policy void. They don’t even have the political guts to say “the global warming science isn’t settled”. Hockey wrote that there needed to be an insurance policy in case the world was warming – grubby fence sitting. Our Malcolm kicks goals for the opposing team and who knows what AbbottAbbottAbbott thinks?


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        KeithH

        “No but I’m intent on voting informal as a protest against the coalition policy void.”

        Get real Apobyh. If you were Tony Abbott or any other Opposition Leader in the current environment of a Government with no mandate, which only exists because the Leader deliberately lied to electors immediately before the election, and rapidly spinning completely out of control after a short and continuing history of disastrous blunders on practically every policy front, would you give them a break and release policies this far out from the expected next election?

        Tony Abbott will do what every other sensible Opposition Leader has done in the past i.e., release policies at a strategic time of his choosing much closer to an election date.

        I share some of your doubts about what he or anyone else can do because this Green/Labor/”Dependants” joke of a government has consciously and deliberately made the carbon dioxide tax legilation so complicated that it will take all the Rhodes Scholar skills of Abbott and his team to unwind it. The Deutsche Bank links of Hockey (through his wife) and Goldman Sachs man Turnbull together with Greg Hunt and other luke-warmists in the Libs will make things even more difficult! At least the Nats appear solid.

        As I’ve said before, Australia is faced with the choice of deciding which Party will do the least damage and that’s a no-brainer at present. It’s your choice to vote informal, but to me that’s just a cop-out. We are facing a crisis of tremendous proportions if we don’t get it right so at least have the courage to contribute by taking your democratic part!


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        Bob Malloy

        They don’t even have the political guts to say “the global warming science isn’t settled”. Hockey wrote that there needed to be an insurance policy in case the world was warming – grubby fence sitting.

        Check out his wife, Melissa Babbage, and her links to Deutsche Bank. Of course he thinks there needs to be an insurance policy.


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    Shall I stay or shall I go…

    ..if I go there will trouble,
    if I stay it will be double..


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    Juliar

    Labor are continually falling apart. And they are now taking it out on the people. Member for Bendigo, Steve Gibbons (ALP) just called someone on twitter a “redkneck” and a “racist” who simply rebutted his tweet. There are many more examples. I can’t wait till November 2013 (hopefully earlier) so we can vote out these muppets.


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    Juliar

    Gillard lied again today. She said that it was her decision about Thompson leaving the party and then Thompson says it was his decision to leave the party. It is quite hilarious.


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    MattB

    What a completely biased appraisal of the last election. Fact is the independents knew Abbott was a turkey. And he offered very similar deals to seduce them. Fact is that each of those conservative electorates could have voted Liberal but rejected the Liberals in favour of independents. Those independents were NOT de-facto Libs… they were a conscious vote to not vote Liberal.

    As for Whitlam, I encourage any non Aussie out there to research the stink that was the dismissal of the Whitlam government.

    ALP may well lose the next election, and so be it, but they won the last one fair and square. Or should Govt have been given to the Libs as a birthright even though they lost?


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      MadJak

      MattB

      ALP may well lose the next election

      Really?

      Now we all know they sold out the “there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead” promise. If they hadn’t made that promise there is no way they would’ve been able to garner support for a minority government.

      But that’s OK, the next election will put things right. It’s time for the other lot to get a crack of the whip. I expect them to be very much aware of the importance of integrity and how this current mobs’ demise is purely a result of having none.


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      warcroft

      “but the ALP won the last election fair and square.”
      Really? You believe that?


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        Catamon

        Actually warcroft, regardless of the “we wus wobbed” whining from people like yourself and Tanty Tones, they did form a Government after the last election fairly and lawfully.

        Amazing how in many countries, minority Govt’s are quite normal, and people just get on with it. Here, the whole concept of not having a big strong man fully in charge seems to have flipped a switch in the right wing nut-bagger brigade to rant and denial mode.


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          Bob Massey

          Funny you say that Catastromon. The ALP won the last election fair and square with deals that betrayed the Australian people based on a series of lies. Only you or MattB could give them a tick for that. However it will be short lived and all the GOOD work (sarc) they have done will be removed as soon as there is an election with my blessing.


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            Catamon

            Funny you say that Bob. From kicking around a few of the politics blogs its amazing how on the right wing ones , how little knowledge of how our political system actually works there is. Much indignation and chest beating and hugely inflated expectations that get fed by the ignoramii like Jones and Bolt about what “should” happen. Interesting stuff. I should get a grant and write a book huh?


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            Cata-baby sure, you are probably right – the conservatives have this naive idea that people in power should tell the truth, not use their money for prostitutes, not piss money away on pink batts that burn down homes, and not pay $800k for tin-sheds in schools. The left may well be supremo at gaming the system — no one else has had the audacity to say there will be no tax, and then after they brought in that same tax, then pretend that the “hung parliament” made them do it.

            The Labor Party are very very good at gaming the political system.

            Do tell catamonic, and how well is that plan working out for them? “30%”?


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            Catamon

            Good to see you have the Murdoch propaganda line down pat Jo.

            the conservatives have this naive idea that people in power should tell the truth

            Historically laughable.

            not use their money for prostitutes

            You have proof or just the rumors from the media?

            not piss money away on pink batts that burn down homes

            Do your self a favor and look up what the data says Jo, rather than embarrassingly parading the propagandist position of the rabid right.

            and not pay $800k for tin-sheds in schools

            See above.


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          Winston

          Cat,
          The irony is that “winning” the last election could well be the most expensive “victory” in history. If they had been honest prior to the election about their carbon tax agenda they may have lost with a small or moderate minority of the 2 pp vote, with the prospect of maybe 2 election cycles before again competitive, especially if the global economy tanked. Now, as a result of an unholy alliance and transparent lack of integrity or fiscal responsibility, they will be completely decimated, with no road back. Pyrrhus comes to mind.


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          warcroft

          Ok, yes. The ALP did win the last election fair and square, but the people sure as hell didnt vote them in.
          The public didnt want to vote ALP or Liberal, so they voted Greens and Independents. . . not realising that a vote for Green was a vote for ALP.
          The public now know better.

          So, yes, the ALP did manage to snatch power ‘fair and square’ but the people didnt vote for them.


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          spareme

          Ok Cat have your little moment of delusion, you probably deserve it… Meanwhile I (and many more) look forward to this bunch of clowns being consigned to the dust bin for a very long time… Much grinning to look forward to!!!!


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      MH

      Matt B ,

      Bruce Hawker(Labor strategist ) is the cousin of Tony Windsor and Bruce Hawker came to Port Macquarie to advise Oakeshott , now what were you saying about the Independents ?

      Oakeshott btw is very attached to the Get Up Crowd ….an arm of the Labor Party


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      Popeye

      Yes Matty B

      We all know about the “Khemlani loans affair” which ultimately brought about Whitlam’s dismissal. Reason – they were useless economic idiots!!

      And your point of difference between Whitlam and the current debacle? Oh, that’s right they’re useless economic idiots as well!!

      Cheers,


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      Juliar

      THEY DIDN’T WIN THE LAST ELECTION!!!!!! Secondly, those seats are conservative seats. They prefer the Coalition over Labor massively but those independents don’t seem to understand what a representative democracy is/


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    Bruce of Newcastle

    Labor primary votes:

    Lyne (Oakeshott): 13.49%
    New England (Windsor): 8.13%

    Greens primary votes:

    Lyne (Oakeshott): 4.29%
    New England (Windsor): 3.57%

    Matt, the Nats had 3 times the Labor vote in both seats. Are you saying that those electorates want a Green-ALP coalition government that brings in a carbon tax?

    Pull the other one its got bells on. They were lied to, and mate are they going to give those guys curry if they stand again. Which they won’t. I suggest moving to Greenland, its far enough away and according to Windsor you’ll be able to plant palm trees there soon.


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      MattB

      what % were for the independents? That is what matters.


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        No Matt, what matters is how many people would have voted for those independents if they knew the independents would vote Labor.

        Can you point to any Oakshott or Windsor statements prior to the election to let people know their intentions?

        If the public knew an Oakshott/Windsor vote was a vote for the ALP those two guys would be polling a whole lot better now than they are.

        Hands up who thinks Gillard would have won if the public knew she’d bring in a carbon tax?


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          I think its about time something was done to allow you to also vote on whether the previous holders of a seat get any post position entitlements or not. Basically go against the wishes of your electorate and you get no pension, no perks and no privileges. Or provide a mechanism for a vote of no confidence at the electorate level and force a bi-election. This would improve accountability no end.


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            MadJak

            I agree,

            There need to be stricter controls on politicians to ensure they represent their electorates wishes during their term – not just jumping onto another agenda once they get through the doors.

            Put an end to these short term dictatorships. In the real world we hardly ever get 3-5 years of guaranteed employment, so why the hell should they?

            The current loopholes are eroding peoples views of our democracy.


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            Catamon

            Ohh, can it be called the MadJak irrational and ignorant revenge Bill?? That would really do wonders for political stability!


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            MadJak

            Catamon,

            How about “illegitimate Tyrant prevention legislation”

            Of course sometimes leaders do need to make unpopular decisions, but when almost every decision made by a government is against the will of the people and their electorates, then there should be measures in place to restrict this.

            Stop confusing leadership with beligerant arrogance.


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            ghl

            What the US call a recall provision.


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          MattB

          funnily enough Rob has a website and if you search of articles pre-election it is pretty clear he sees himself as a true independent happy to work with either party based upon what he sees is best for his electorate. If they don’t like what he’s done they can vote him out. If they wanted to vote LNP then they probably should have voted for LNP candidates…. it is pretty simple.


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            crakar24

            it is pretty simple.

            You really dont have a clue do you Matt, let me show you just how stupid you really are, firstly as we lead up to an election the labor guy will hold labor views and the liberal guy will hold liberal views and the independant will hold his own views which may be similar BUT NOT THE SAME as a major party for if they were the same then why would you vote for the independant?

            So Windsor and Oakshott get elected because they offered something “different” to the people than Labor and Liberal where offering.

            Now Matt this is where it gets interesting, can you tell me which pieces of legislation introduced by Labor that the independants have voted against? I think you will find the independants have voted with the government on every issue so in reality they are not independant at all and the people in their respective electorates have been had.

            The independants are nothing more than a labor back bencher, i say a back bencher because they have no input on policy, none at all.

            Your stupidity on all things important never ceases to amaze.


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            MattB

            Don’t be absurd… they’ve voted in favour of most legislation as they’ve carefully negotiated what is in the legislation. There would be no point the ALP introducing any legislation that the independents are not going to support, as they know it would not get support.

            As one example, the pokies legislation, you could hardly accuse Wilkie of having just mindlessly approving govt legislation, but he certainly held it up until they made the legislation something they could support (untill Slipper jumped ship of course).


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            MattB

            If they’d sided with Abbott and we now had a (shudder) Abbott led federal govt they would be doing the same thing – internally reaching agreement on legislation then supporting it in parliament.


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            MattB

            You just have to accept that both Oakshott and Windsor support putting a price on Carbon. As did the Liberal Party until not that long ago. Unlike the Liberal Party members the independents didn’t have to change their minds just because Abbott changed his mind. They have stayed consistent, compared to a large number of the Libs who have changed position to suit the political opportunity to oppose when in opposition. This is why the electorates, one assumes, voted independent – because they wanted independent minds not just mindless party drones. They may well regret this, and if that is the case then the independents will be replaced by Libs.

            So what they are doing is what they think is best despite the fact it will likely lose them their seats in parliament. What you want them to do is be political flip flops/weathervanes so try and save their own bacon. Yay for democracy Crackar24 style.


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            MH

            Matt ,
            You need Correction !

            It was Malcolm Turnbull who wanted an ETS .Possibly because of his ties with Goldman Sachs (traders in Emissions Trading Schemes ).

            Kevin Rudd went over to meet with Goldman Sachs back in about March/April 2007 and told them that “they” would be in a “safe pair of hands ” if he won the 2007 Elections also at that time he met with his friend Murdoch .
            Malcolm Turnbull has always wanted an ETS and still does ! The ETS is for a select few to make money, it’s not for you or I to make money !btw I would never want to see Malcolm Turnbull become Leader of the Liberal Party ever again !

            The majority of the Opposition didn’t want it, but because of Turnbull , the Party wanted to be a united Party . Abbott was against a Carbon Tax/ETS well before he became Opposition Leader and because of Turnbull becoming increasingly unpopular with the Liberal and National voters due to his friendship with Kevin Rudd and the games he and Rudd played in Parliament QT , then the challenge started Kevin Andrews first put up his hand , because he was getting fed up of Turnbull who was splitting the Party , and Abbott put up his hand in , as well as Joe Hockey .Then Kevin Andrews stepped out of the challenge. So don’t try and invent stories !


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            crakar24

            MattB,

            I find your ideas on politics very strange, from the Collins english dictionary:

            Noun, 11.a person who is not affiliated to or who acts independently of a political party

            Let me ask you the following questions MattB.

            Did the independents campaign at the last election to bring in the following

            1) a Carbon Tax
            2) a MRRT
            3) changes to the private health insurance scheme
            4) Government money siphoned off to fund green schemes
            5) Hundreds of other Labor policies

            No of course not MattB therefore they are not independent, they may have been on election day but they are not now and if you honestly think they actually have a say in policy formation then you are even more stupid than i give you credit for………..and if you dont believe go and have a chat to a bloke named Wilkie.


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            MattB

            Crackar it matters not – any independent with the balance of power has to treat legislation on a case by case basis as presented by the government. It is not an independent’s job to disagree with everything a govt (or opposition) proposes. And they have not – they have negotiated final outcomes to get legislation they are happy with. If independents just said “no” then you may as well put the losers of the election in power… however by the same logic the independents would say “no” to everything the alternate govt presented.

            Lets have a look btw at cliamte change:
            http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/labor-stance-sways-independents-20100907-14zlp.html
            “Mr Windsor said country Australia could see great advantages from renewable energy and other climate-change policies. Mr Oakeshott also indicated emissions trading was part of his decision.”

            http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/profile-rob-oakeshott-20100822-13azm.html

            FYI here is Oakeshott’s comments from his website:
            “I advocated for the introduction of an emissions trading scheme in my first speech to Parliament in 2008, and voted in favour of the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme on all three occasions that it came before the Lower House between 2008 and 2010.
            In no fewer than 10 ‘meet-the-candidate’ events leading up to last year’s general election, I was asked about my position on climate change and re-stated my support for a carbon pricing mechanism.”

            http://www.roboakeshott.com/node/930

            look if people expected someone to not support carbon trading and efforts to curb GHGs then they should have paid some bloody attention to what the man thought, and how he had voted in the previous parliament.


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            MattB

            Tony Windsor “Tony Windsor has been a strident critic of the coal industry and in 2008 sponsored the “Climate Protection Bill” in the Parliament, calling for 30% cuts by 2020.”

            WOW he actually SPONSORED THE CLIMATE PROTECTION BILL in 2008… BEFORE THE ELECTION!!! Look if his voters didn’t want him to be in favour of efforts to reduce CO2 then they, franky, were thick as two short planks.

            http://blogs.crikey.com.au/rooted/2010/08/23/the-world%E2%80%99s-second-climate-change-election/


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            crakar24

            Tony Windsor “Tony Windsor has been a strident critic of the coal industry and in 2008 sponsored the “Climate Protection Bill” in the Parliament, calling for 30% cuts by 2020.”

            WOW he actually SPONSORED THE CLIMATE PROTECTION BILL in 2008… BEFORE THE ELECTION!!! Look if his voters didn’t want him to be in favour of efforts to reduce CO2 then they, franky, were thick as two short planks.

            Youve been touched by the sun havent you MattB

            http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/independent-mp-tony-windsor-in-league-of-his-own-on-farm-sale/story-fn59niix-1225911091227

            And here is the disclaimer

            Mr Windsor, who has long been critical of mining in the nearby fertile Liverpool Plains because of its impact on underlying ground water, yesterday repeated his claim that the mining of that property was legitimate because it was “completely different country”.

            “Overall, I am not opposed to mining. In fact, in several instances I have pushed for it, but I am very much opposed to mining where there is an interface with the ground water, as is the case with Liverpool Plains,” Mr Windsor said.

            When asked about the differences in the sale prices between his property and those of his neighbours, he said, “I think we should terminate this conversation”.

            “You listen to me pal, you mind your own business, it’s my family’s business. If you want to make up some bullshit story, go for your life, I don’t care,” he said before hanging up.


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            crakar24

            MattB,

            for the last time Matt they were elected as independents but turned out being king makers, its not thier fault i know but if you sign an agreement to support the Labor government (supply/no confidence) and in return you get a little bit of pork barrelling then you are no longer independent.

            The only house Labor has struggled to pass legislation in is the Senate because of the greens/Libs not the house of reps Windsor and Oakshott are Labor no more no less which in my opinion is a slap in the face to those who voted for them at the last election. Lets not take my word for it lets see what the voters have to say and leave it at that.


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            MattB

            “if you sign an agreement to support the Labor government (supply/no confidence) and in return you get a little bit of pork barrelling then you are no longer independent.”

            would you have a different opinion if they’d backed Abbott and signed an agreement, as offered, to support his alternate govt?


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            MH

            Matt B ,

            Don’t worry about that , the voters of Lyne will be voting him out , just like they voted his mate out in the NSW State Elections .


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            MattB

            MH that’s fine my me if they vote him out.


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      Speedy

      Bruce – I likes it! Plant palm trees on it indeed…


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        Bruce of Newcastle

        I should apologise to Mr Windsor, he never said about palm trees.

        But I did get nice reply from him saying thanks for the concise summary of the scientific literature against CAGW. Then he voted for the carbon tax a few weeks later.


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          catamon

          Well done Bruce for helping him to that decision. Must make you feel all good inside?


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            Bruce of Newcastle

            Er, no.

            And it was all peer reviewed literature too. I didn’t mention WUWT even once. I swear!

            He suggested I send to MPCCC, so I did. Heard nothing back. Mr Combet’s my local member worse luck. Figures.

            I hear that the price for baseball bats on Ebay has hit a record. Is that true Catamon?


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      Speedy

      Actually Bruce when you talk about “Greenland” being verdant – someone’s already beaten you to it. (Eric the Red c. 900 AD. During the Medieval Warming that never happened.) At the same time as the Vikings were colonising “Vinland” (aka Newfoundland) before it turned decidedly cold in the midst of a “sustanable” economy!!

      I’m sure there’s someone with a model somewhere who can explain this? Perhaps our mutual friend Megan??

      Cheers,

      Speedy


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    Peter Lang

    What % of the population still supports Labor? is it down to 25% yet?

    I see that on an ABC poll (i.e. biased towards predominantly Green-Labor voters), 61% don’t believe in catastrophic AGW, 35% do and 5% Cautious/Disengaged.

    Dismissive 52%
    Alarmed 22%
    Concerned 13%
    Doubtful 9%
    Cautious 4%
    Disengaged 1%
    4195 votes counted

    It would seem the wheels must be falling off the CAGW band wagon when an ABC audience votes as shown here.


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    Tim

    Criminals in suits have been around since the Al Capone era. Will anything ever change?


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    Speedy

    Jo

    At the risk of being pedantic, you say that Whitlam had MORE class than Gillard.

    You should have said Whitlam had —SOME— class….

    Not much, mind you, but some.

    Cheers,

    Speedy


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    David

    LOVED the Bill Shorten vid – that must go down in the annals of history as one of the stoopidest things to say on national (and now, of course, worldwide) tv EVAH….
    Any cartoons doing the rounds of him licking Julia’s ar…. boots..??


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      David T

      I think John Clarke would have a hard time impersonating that. It looked like classic John Clarke and Brian Dawe, except that it was for real.


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    Peter Miller

    As someone only half Australian, my only comment is that as a country you are lucky you have such huge natural resources to be able to pay for all this green/goofy/socialist nonsense.

    The concepts of integrity, honour and honesty seem to be alien traits for many of your politicians, but that is not just an Australian phenomenon. As for competency, I think it is long overdue for all leading politicians being required to have working experience of the real world for at least 10-15 years – being in PR, a researcher for politicians and a lawyer should specifically exclude you from being a political leader. Far too many politicians only know how to be politicians and have no idea how the real world functions – the left always insists they are the champion of the workers, but in reality their concept of job creation only means lots more (especially overpaid ones) pointless bureaucrats – don’t ever let them convince you otherwise.

    Anyhow, good luck Australia – you are going to need it over the next 18 months. On the bright side, you should all be proud you are going to give a practical demonstration of just how pointless, dangerous and expensive carbon taxes are – and for that the world will owe you a debt of gratitude.


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    crosspatch

    I like this book review of new documents on the Australian parliamentary system:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT01zWMnylE


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    R.M. Griffin

    There is a downside to Queensland’s last election result. Newman is so cocky he thinks he can spit in the faces of most of those who supported him by indulging in a totally stupid, knee-jerk reaction of pushung for “the strictest anti-gun laws in Australia”. He doesn’t realise that he is setting himself up as a one-term premier, Just goes to show, one can never trust a rabid cyclist.


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    Apoxonbothyourhouses

    Where is AbbottAbbottAbbott on union supervision? Why are the unions handling millions of $ not subject to the IDENTICAL controls and regulations as corporations?. Unions should be treated the same way as BHP or CBA and if union “directors” break the law they should be dealt with accordingly.


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      MadJak

      I agree 100%. The Unions are a business and should be treated as such.


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      catamon

      I hope they are. I will then apply to become a union leader so i can get away with all the highly remunerated crap that corporate CEO’s do! Gravy!!


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      KeithH

      Julia Gillard would be the one to ask on this one Apobyh. She should be an expert on it after acting for the AWU 1992-95 in her capacity as a lawyer and then seeing hundreds of thousands of dollars fraudulently misappropriated from legally set-up accounts supposedly on the Union’s behalf, with no subsequent charges laid against any of the perpetrators! Rather curiously, there appears to be no record of her ever having offered or been asked to lodge even a Statutory Declaration, let alone a sworn affidavit in relation to the crime’ Apparently, although over 30 years of age and a partner in a high-profile legal firm, she was “young and foolish and had been let down by someone she’d trusted”! How this managed to absolve those responsible and allow them to escape the punishment which would have been meted out to someone who’d committed such a crime in the corporate world, I’m not sure.

      I shouldn’t have to remind you that Abbott, Abbott, Abbott and his Party are not yet in Government, but I do support the sentiments you express. Why indeed should Unions “not be subject to the IDENTICAL controls and regulations as corporations?”


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      KeithH

      An update for you Apobyh from Tony Abbott. He must have read your plea!

      28/4/12
      ADDRESS TO THE VICTORIAN LIBERAL PARTY STATE COUNCIL, MELBOURNE

      “And today, ladies and gentlemen, I announce a new commitment, a new commitment that will ensure that we have responsible and well run unions in this country. You might think that’s impossible but it can be done. You see we think that the business of unions ought to be protecting the interests of workers, not running protection rackets for former union bosses.

      So our commitment today is to ensure that essentially the same governance rules that apply to businesses and that you adhere to in your business life, will apply to unions and union officials as they go about the business of running their unions.

      In particular, if the same offence is committed, the same penalties will apply. You see, we know offences have been committed in the Health Services Union because we finally got a report out of Fair Work Australia – we haven’t got the main report, but we have got one report – and that report clearly revealed that offences had been committed. Now, those offences, as things stand, attract fines of just $2,200 from union officials under existing legislation. If the same offences had been committed by company directors, they would be liable to fines of $200,000 and potentially exposed to five years in jail. Well, the same offence deserves the same punishment and that’s what will happen under the next Coalition Government.

      And there will be a new cop to ensure that these rules are properly enforced. We won’t have the same person or the same conflicted entity enforcing the rules and mediating between the warring parties, we will have a Registered Organisations omission that will ensure that unions are well run in practice as well as in theory, and I tell you what, under the Registered Organisations Commission it won’t take more than three years to investigate an open and shut case of wrongdoing.”

      http://www.smh.com.au/national/misleading-smoke-gets-in-publics-eyes-20120501-1xwzs.html


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    Ross

    Off topic but this thread by Bob Tisdale on WUWT completely supports David Evan’s view of the models as presnted in his videos on the last thread

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/29/tisdale-on-the-17-year-itch-yes-there-is-a-santer-clause/#more-62285


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    Patrick

    The next fedaral election cannot come soon enough. Australia needs to rid itself of this political mafia which calls itself Labor.


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    David T

    Well Patrick if its anything like Qld those left will need only a dinning table to conduct their meetings. Seven Labor seats retained in the Qld state election and the council election wasn’t much better.


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    David T

    Who watched Liberty Sanger attempt to justify the inept performance of Labor minister Bill Shorten on the Bolt Report?

    Bill Shorten, now appearing on the 7:30 Report and filling in for John Clarke. He won’t need to act, he can just be himself.


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      Rod Stuart

      LIBERTY!!! Just imagine. This woman’s parents named her after John Stuart Mill’s epic essay “On Liberty” perhaps?

      This has to be the oxymoron of the century. She doesn’t have a clue about liberty. She is just an ALP shill, parroting the same old crap.


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    incoherent rambler

    In summary -

    The left wing media seems to be turning on their anointed choice.

    The mad scramble to cover arse seems, to me, to be driven by information that we the people do not possess. I wonder what revelations will appear in the next few days?

    I pray that the Australian electorate shows the same sanity as Queensland (when given the opportunity).


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    RoHa

    “Our Leftie Labor Government”

    Since when were they lefties?

    I’m a lefty. Don’t insult me by associating me with the ALP.


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    catamon

    Hey you lot, All will be well. Clive Palmer is going to run at the next election and save the country for poor misunderstood billionaires.

    Will he get LNP pre-selection?? He’s certainly able to pay for it.


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      Kevin Moore

      Catamon,

      Definition of AD HOMINEM

      1: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect

      2: marked by or being an attack on an opponent’s character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

      Clive Palmer has recently made some very interesting statements, the sum of which only a courageous and patriotic person would have had the guts to do.

      I suppose Catamon that you will join those in the media, politics and elsewhere who with complete disregard for the facts start a high pitched orchestration of vilification.


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        catamon

        I suppose Catamon that you will join those in the media, politics and elsewhere who with complete disregard for the facts start a high pitched orchestration of vilification.

        Of course not, although????

        It is curious why he wants to run for a federal seat when he already owns 70 or so?? :)


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      MH

      Listen here Catamon !

      If it wasn’t for people like Clive Palmer , there would be no jobs ! He has a vision and that’s to make Australia a great Country , a productive Country , not a Nation of Welfare bludgers !.

      I think you better reconsider your post , we all cannot live on Government handouts (We cannot afford to keep handing out Welfare money )


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        catamon

        we all cannot live on Government handouts

        So why is poor Clive putting his hand up for a Govt funded position then?


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        MattB

        Clive only just told me this morning on the wireless that he wants Australia to be rich so we can give out even more handouts.


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          MH

          MattB
          April 30, 2012 at 3:51 pm · Reply
          Clive only just told me this morning on the wireless that he wants Australia to be rich so we can give out even more handouts.

          ——————————————————————————–

          Matt wrong again !! When will you listen properly to what Clive Palmer said .

          He didn’t say to give more handouts , he said to have more money to get things done !

          Ssheesh !


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      handjive

      Palmer will not run for parliament.

      He is just using the media like he did before, taking up valuable air time that Swan was desperate for to sell his budget.

      The ABC has fallen for it, twisting themselves in knots, spending valuable air time, scrutinising every nuance of the possibility, looking for dirt.

      “The audacity of the privileged,” the ABC & Swan squeal, falling into Palmers trap.

      It is beautiful. No wonder Palmer is smiling.
      All he needed was a quickly printed backdrop saying ‘swansong’ at a media conference.

      LaboUr members of parliament can only talk about it.

      Free publicity all round, with a few ‘Abbotts’ thrown in for good extra value free publicity.

      Very soon the budget spot light will be focused back on the 2 jokers Slipper & Thomson, as the rubber chickens come home to roost, and the circus will continue, with all the clowns trying to fit in one car as they take cover from the flying cream pies…

      Did I mention the budget?


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      Andrew McRae

      Clive Palmer today announced a deal with a Chinese shipyard to build the Titanic II as a near exact replica.

      Of course the rabid Left have flooded the interwebs with a CliveHate Change whilst claiming they speak for everyone in Australia in hating him. See Reddit for an example. It’s yet another sad indictment on the Leftists. To see a really stunning comment, see the choice words by “Thor” below the SMH article.

      The repeated criticism is that there’s no Australian jobs created by this project. So someone can’t spend their own money however they like, and if they do they have to give some of it to us aussies? How’s the entitlement mentality!

      I conclude Clive Palmer is his own greatest fan and… the ship should be spectacular. A thing of beauty. People shouldn’t forget that part. Assuming he does actually go ahead with this grandiose idea.


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    Oh No!

    Surely not.

    It, er, seems that the turbulence caused by the rotating blades of those huge wind towers is, umm, wait for this … causing temperature increases over the whole wind plant area in the amount of 0.72 decrees Celsius every decade.

    The article says:

    Researchers … examined conditions around 2,358 turbines at four Texas wind farms.

    and this also:

    Professsor Zhou and colleagues said a large enough wind farm could even effect local and regional weather and climate.

    Hey this isn’t some skeptic raving on. This is a Professor from the State University of New York, and has been published in the Nature Climate Change journal.

    Read the whole article (very carefully) at, and wait for this too … the ABC News site.

    Wind farms linked to temperature increase

    Aww! What a pity!

    Tony.


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      So, hang on a minute here.

      They keep trying to convince us (and, umm, not really succeeding) that those CO2 emissions from mainly those coal fired power plants are causing temperature increase, and now it has actually been PROVEN that the CURE actually IS causing a temperature increase.

      Surely there’s an axiom in there somewhere.

      By the way, Climate scientist Professor Nigel Tapper, of Melbourne’s Monash University says in reference to this study that if they were solar panels instead of wind towers, a similar temperature increase would be recorded.

      I just cannot wait to see how the spinners spin this.

      As some texters might so eloquently write … WTF.

      Tony.


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        Graeme No.3

        No Tony,
        he believes in Global Warming, so obviously the heat must come from some source of hot air e.g. coal fired power stations, Al Gore etc. It floats around above the wind turbines so when they start working at night, when the power isn’t wanted, then the turbulence mixes the floating hot air with the cooler air near the ground.
        The result is that the overnight temperatures rise (like the models predict) so the sun’s rays in the morning are trapped close to the ground (like the models predict) causing more warming.

        Unfortunately the day time temperatures aren’t rising as much as the night time ones, so bang goes that theory.

        A really weird idea is that the sun heats the desert surface, which causes hot air to rise. Cooler air is draw in and starts turning the turbines, which blend the rising and incoming air streams. There is a temporary temperature rise, which disappears as the wind turbines continue to work, hour after hour, day after day… there I told you it was a weird idea. Almost as weird as using an unpredictable, intermittent source of electricity for base load.


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        Also of note with respect to Wind Plants and their huge towers.

        The U.S. Government is changing the laws to to extend bald eagle ‘take permits’ from 5 years to 30 years. Expanding the time where the U.S. National Bird is allowed to be killed from 5 to 30 years, is beyond offensive, and will result in the slaughter of numerous bald and golden eagles.

        See the following article.

        Proposed Federal Rule Change Will Lead to More Dead Eagles at Wind Energy Projects

        Imagine if they tried to change the rules for a coal fired power plant.

        Imagine if a hydro plant tried to do the same with the fish that may be chewed up by the Francis Turbine.

        Imagine if they tried to change the frog take because of a dam flooding its habitat.

        Instead, all you get when something like this is proposed for flavour of the month wind plants is the standard response.

        “Hey look, isn’t that Britney Spears.”

        Tony.


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      rukidding

      Ah Tony

      This is a “God give me strength”moment

      So lets see if I understand this.If we move to wind power the Earth will heat by 7.2c in this century but if we stay with fossil fuels it will only heat by 6c tops.

      No brainer really.


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      Dave

      .
      Tony – the temperature increase alone should be enough to get them banned!
      But I don’t think Bob Brown Christine Milne would allow that!

      The new problem they are finding is the disruption to pollination of native plant species due to disturbance to the birds, insects etc that usually do the pollination. There is a drop in propagation of new plants (native) near these turbines. Mild extinction in localised areas is forecast!
      Native bee numbers also appear to drop significantly around turbines.

      A secondary factor is also the massive spread of invasive weeds due to the wind forces that spread the seeds for kilometers around each turbine. It seems the weeds are better adapted to the wind turbulance in regards to survival.

      Maybe this heat increase around the turbines is also causing some of the results seen above.

      If these true environmentalists keep looking further into these turbines – there will be a break away group of true scientists that will spell the end of this renewable energy source!
      Wish it was sooner than later!


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      I don’t know how many of you have read Kim Stanley Robinson’s Red/green/Blue Mars trilogy (I got through Red and most of Green and just can’t face Blue and I’m a 50+ year SF fan) but near the beginning of Red Mars our heroes are travelling around in an airship dropping little windmills with generators and resistive heaters in order to Terraform Mars(ie cause massive climate change). I always wondered why you wouldn’t just drop something that caused aerodynamic drag.


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        Rod

        I remember the Mars trilogy. But I don’t think you could heat Mars by changing the wind’s energy of motion to heat using turbines. The wind is solar powered and continually gives up it’s energy of motion to heat anyway by way of friction and collision. Likewise with solar panels connected to heaters. The cooling of the patch of ground shaded by the panel would cancel the heat produced by the radiator.


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    Kevin Moore

    “We are all terrorists now” – John Pilger

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3975970.html

    ………The descent into totalitarianism has landmarks. Any day now, the Supreme Court in London will decide whether the WikiLeaks editor, Julian Assange, is to be extradited to Sweden. Should this final appeal fail, the facilitator of truth-telling on an epic scale, who is charged with no crime, faces solitary confinement and interrogation on ludicrous sex allegations.

    Thanks to a secret deal between the US and Sweden, he can be “rendered” to the American gulag at any time. In his own country, Australia, Prime Minister Julia Gillard has liaised with those in Washington she calls her “true mates” to ensure her innocent fellow citizen is fitted for his orange jump suit just in case he should make it home.

    In February, her Government wrote a “WikiLeaks Amendment” to the extradition treaty between Australia and the US that makes it easier for her “mates” to get their hands on him. She has even given them the power of approval over Freedom of Information searches – so that the world outside can be lied to, as is customary.

    What are you going to do about it?

    John Pilger


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      Graeme No.3

      If it is a secret deal, how does Pilger know about it?

      I would point out that Assange was ASKED to return to Sweden to answer questions about some ALLEGATIONS. He refused, and the Swedish police are trying to use extradition to get him to Sweden. (That looks dodgy to me as he hasn’t been charged with anything, but successive courts in the UK have accepted their argument).

      What also looks dodgy is Assange’s reaction, spending a fortune (mostly donated), hysterical publicity about how he will be sent to the USA by Sweden, parading as a persecuted “saint” etc. Anything but answer the questions. It does seem a little overdone for someone with a clear conscience.


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    Grant (NZ)

    On this side of the Tasman I have suggested we replace General Elections with a reality TV show called Parliamentary Island. We start off with all the candidates on the island and then we vote them off. Candidates can earn immunity with Immunity Challenges. The first (and one they are all bound to fail) is “Draft a new pice of legislation that is not covered by ‘It is illegal to be stupid’”.


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    catamon

    Tick, tock, tick tock, :)

    Hope Tony still has that bomb disposal suit he wore in Afghanistan handy if it turns out there is anything to this. Vex being a horrible rag, :) but they have been right about goings on in the Coalition before.


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    Glen Michel

    Democracy is not what it is cracked up to be; no options for us poor bastards but to vote for the sake of voting.I will not be voting for Labor in the next election – or for the foreseeable decade or two. But I won’t be running to the LCP either. Surprisingly, with relatively low public debt,low interest rates and inflation – not to mention low unemployment ; good indicators economically to be sure and enough usually to guarantee reelection in past times,this lot are so inept that they deserve a good whipping when it’s time to poll.


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    Amr Marzouk

    Will it be proper for Shorten to lead Labour while his mother in law is the GG or will they give her a diplomatic illness to remove her?
    This is so tacky.
    Also has any article generated so many comments in such a short time?
    Off to see James Delingpole for some sanity.
    Amr
    Sydney


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      MadJak

      Amr,

      I wouldn’t worry about that. Shorten will be leader of the ALP for another 10 years plus. Don’t worry though, his political career will probably be over before another generation of voters get the numbers to repeat the mistake of voting for the ALP.

      Of course, that is assuming that the ALP isn’t completely obliterated and some other as yet unknown entity rises up to actually cater for the centre left voters.


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      MH

      Amr ,

      It would be a conflict of interest if Shorten become PM while his mother in law is GG .

      Due to the embarrassing performance of Bill Shorten the other day , the Knight who comes riding in on his white horse to prance around the Cameras , I’d say he will be very quiet from here on .He has shown no leadership and Gillard has made him look like Yes Minister , an idiot !


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        MadJak

        I can just See shorten as interim PM

        “Well I agree one hundred percent with what the former Prime minister said on the issue. I’m sure what she said was completely correct”.

        LOL


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    Kevin Moore

    “…Chinese Communist Party—stated that any nation that “chooses to be a pawn in the U.S. chess game” will be “punished economically.”

    Clive Palmer has a very good relationship with China and knows only too well the effects Gillards over the top toadying to the US may well have on the Australian economy.

    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/australia/us-expansion-in-asia-pacific-not-welcome-in-chinese-press-144693.html

    The announcement of increased U.S. military presence in Australia’s bases was largely heralded as a positive step in the Asia-Pacific cooperation between the two nations. But not so much in the Chinese media.

    Barack Obama’s intention to station thousands of troops in the north Australian city of Darwin was unveiled during the President’s visit to Australia this week.

    “After a decade in which we fought two wars that cost us dearly, in blood and treasure, the United States is turning our attention to the vast potential of the Asia-Pacific region,” Mr. Obama said on Wednesday, Nov. 16 at joint sitting of Parliament in Canberra.

    Meanwhile, the Chinese Government reacted strongly, saying the move is “inappropriate.” The Chinese state-owned press has unleashed a barrage of criticism, further fuelling anti-US sentiments already strong amongst the Chinese.

    One editorial in the Global Times—a nationalistic mouthpiece of the Chinese Communist Party—stated that any nation that “chooses to be a pawn in the U.S. chess game” will be “punished economically.”

    It went on to warn that China will “not stand idly” by while U.S. builds a stronger presence in the region.

    “These acts bring great pressure to China and it is now expected that China will take some countermeasures,” it said.

    The editorial also reaffirmed Beijing’s military capabilities, which it will not be shy to use in response to U.S.-Australia alliance.

    “Confronted with such frictions, which has the most resources and means at its disposal? Is an all-out confrontation possible? These should be the real concerns,” it said.

    “China has more resources to oppose the U.S. ambition of dominating the region than U.S. has to fulfill it.”


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    Rod Stuart

    Today the Red Queen and her henchmen released the final report of its second inquiry into banning free speech.

    It is apparently watered down from the Finklestein Review, but of course the Her Red Highness is a Fabian Socialist, well schooled in sneaking these attacks on liberty a little bit at a time. They floated the Finkydinky thing and it encountered flack, so they water it down, get it through the House, and then suddenly its not what it was supposed to be.

    If this mob is around long enough, it will get this through and then they will have blogs like this by the short curlies.

    The modus operandi of the Left is to make this socialism creep little by little until, as the passengers sit complacently in their deck chairs on the ship of state, playing with the latest technological toys, when they find themselves disembarking at a different destination than the one they intended.

    Be wary of the push for onshore processing. It is an excuse to build detention centres, many of which are already constructed. It is us, the folks that care, and spend time on this type of web site, for which these detention facilities are intended.

    Note the vehemence with which Wayne Swine attacked Clive Palmer over “wild conspiracy theories”. That is because the Swine is well aware of the programme and the intentions of the Rockefeller’s CFR, the Club of Rome, etc.


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      The Black Adder

      they will have blogs like this by the short curlies

      In the future…

      the Red Dalek will be reported as saying…

      “…there will be a Carbon Tax under a govt. I lead ”

      because that is what they want you to hear!

      This ALP/Green Government cannot be trusted on anything!

      Long live this site, lest we forget, they cannot blame Murdoch for everything!


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      Kevin Moore

      …..Remarkably, in all the media coverage of Palmer’s latest remarks, none of these issues was mentioned, such is their acute sensitivity. Nevertheless, it is clear that enormous financial interests underlie the deep divisions within the Australian ruling elite on the US-China conflict. The Obama administration’s aggressive diplomatic/military stance against the Asian power will only further exacerbate the political crisis in Canberra in the next period.

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/PrintArticle.php?articleId=29930


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        John from CA

        OK, that’s pretty scary but corporations aren’t doing this especially US corporations. Corporations are owned by stock holders and stock holders would never stand for such nonsense.

        Has anyone tracked down the real purpose for this? There must be some official government statement related to the intent. Also, FEMA is an agency of the US government. There isn’t any reason for a representative from FEMA to be on an official visit in Australia.


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    KeithH

    Remember this exchange from Anna Rose v Marc Morano?

    “…Producer: Anna I’m curious…you don’t want to discuss anything at all?

    Anna Rose: I really happy to listen to what Marc has to say, but as I said at the start, I’m not going to be engaging in point-to-point debate because he is known for making things up.

    Nick Minchin: What did he make up?

    Anna Rose: Do a simple Google search, you’ll find hundreds of examples.

    Nick Minchin: What did you make up, Marc?

    Marc Morano: I don’t know. I can’t defend myself against non-attacks, which is what she is doing. Basically she’s saying I’m a liar so she won’t talk to me.”

    A commenter at Climate Depot did a Google Search on ‘Marc Morano makes things up’ and got 547,000 hits. He then tried ‘Anna Rose makes things up’ and got 46,000,000 hits!

    Inspired by this effort I did a similsr Bing search. Result:

    Marc Morano makes things up: 106,000 hits
    Anna Rose makes things up: 93,000,000 hits!

    OOOPs Anna! Big own goal?


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      Popeye

      Very funny Keith,

      I did the same thing (for amusement value only of course) and got the same results.

      Maybe we should post this over at her site?

      Bet it wouldn’t “GETUP” though – heh heh!!

      Cheers,


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    The Black Adder

    I just heard a rumour.

    Is Delingpole on Lateline tonight?

    I want to watch Tony Jones squirm… and squirm… and squirm!

    Go James!


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    Wayne, s. Job

    I read through all of the postings on this topic and MattB and Catamons smart arsy and rather stupid comments are stand out.

    They seem to have no real knowledge of political history or the dire straights that this government are leading us into. The brief Whitlam government era took us two decades to recover from. This governments stupidity at pissing money into the wind is at least twice as bad.

    Then this same Mat and Cat want us to believe that a tax on air is going to save the world, sorry fools, it is going to, in all its glory, make us poorer.

    Socialist economics is a fools paradise, it ends in tears.


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      Catamon

      Read Wayne, s.Jobby, and then weep for thy lack of real knowledge of political history or the dire straights that this government are leading us into.

      All credit to The Finnigans for the compilation below.

      If you want to see the rest, head on over:

      Although you should be careful, that site may be considered as antimatter to this one. :)

      Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world and it is expected to outperform all comers for at least the next two years, according to the International Monetary Fund. The IMF also forecasts Australia’s unemployment rate to remain low at 5.2 per cent in both 2012 and 2013.

      101 Economic Fundamental:

      1. Unemployment 5.1% (Canada 7.5, EUROZONE Avg 9.3, UK 8.7, USA 8.3, Japan 4.1, NZ 6.6, China 4.1, India 9.4, Brazil 4.7. South Africa 25%, Singapore 1.9, South Korea 3.7)

      2. Inflation 2%

      3. GDP Growth 3.5% – The Australian economy is now around 7 per cent larger than it was prior to GFC Mark 1. By way of comparison, most developed countries have gone backward.

      4. RBA Interest Rate – 4.25% – RBA Interest rate 4.25%, compared to 6.75% when Howard was voted out.

      5. Current Govt Net Debt – 8.9%

      6. Total Public Debt – 27% GDP (Canada 81%, EURO 97%, France 99%, Germany 84%, Japan 205%, UK 91%, USA 95%)

      7. Trade Surplus $22.4 billion last financial year – easily the biggest surplus in raw terms for the past 40 years
      of records compiled by the ABS

      8. Sovereign Rating – Australia one of just 15 countries to hold the top AAA Rating from all Agencies

      9. Currency – AUD/USD 1.04, AUD/UK 0.68 AUD/Euro 0.82 – The floating of AUD is the single most important economic reform introduced by Labor. It acts as a shock absorber to external economic conditions

      10. Australia is in Asia, the growth engine averaging 6% and part of the Asian Century. It’s middle and aspiration class is expected to hit 800 millions by 2020. Double of USA+Europe.

      11. NBN – One of the most advanced high speed Internet enabled network in the world. Australia’s first national wide, open access FTTP broadband network with minimum 93% coverage, capable of achieving 1 gigabit per second broadband speeds.

      12. Australia is the richest country in the world according to Credit Suisse Research Institute’s most recent
      Global Wealth Report, the median wealth of Australians now is well over $200,000, ahead of Switzerland, 4 times USA.

      13. Under Coalition spending grew by average of 3.7% per annum, under the current Labor spending growth is
      averaging 1.5%

      14. More people at work today than any time in our Nation’s history. In Jan 2012, 46,300 new jobs created for the month of which 12,300 full-time jobs and the Unemployment rate is now 5.1% from previous 5.2%

      15. Australia net debt is expected to peak only at 8.9% in 2016 (MYEFO) – READ MORE

      16. THE Gillard government’s reforms to financial advice will boost the retirement savings of Australian workers by $130 billion over 15 years

      17. Retail turnover up 0.3% in January. (0.1% fall in December.) from ABS

      18. Inflation measure hits two-year low, inflation gauge shows prices rose 0.1 per cent in February, taking the annual rate to 2 per cent READ MORE

      19. Our economy is up by 7.4 per cent on pre-GFC levels. Canada +3.5% USA & Germany +1%, UK -2.75%, Japan -3% Italy – 4.5% READ MORE

      20. Australia’s GDP in 2011 was $1.444 trillion. Will be above $1.5 trillion next year

      21. Since 2007 the ratio of net debt to GDP of the leading western economies has grown from 52% to 82%”(a swing of 30%). In Australia, minus 3.8% to 8.9%(a swing of 13%)

      22. The 10 year government bond yield is now around 4.0% having recent hit an all time low of 3.65% – it was above 6% in late 2007 when the Coalition was in office

      23. The size of government – taken as government spending – will fall from 26.0% of GDP in 2009-10 during GFC to 23.6% of GDP in 2012-13. The Howard government’s average government spending to GDP ratio was 24.2% of GDP.

      24. The Tax to GDP ratio will rise from a 30 year low of 20.0% of GDP in 2010-11 and will reach 22.3% of GDP in 2012-13.The Tax to GDP ratio in the last Howard year was 23.7% and the average Tax to GDP ratio under Howard was 23.4% of GDP.


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        The Black Adder

        In reply knucklehead!

        101 Economic Fundamental:

        6. Total Public Debt – 27% GDP (Canada 81%, EURO 97%, France 99%, Germany 84%, Japan 205%, UK 91%, USA 95%)

        We had no debt before KRUDD got in….

        PS. I do have a bridge for sale catamon


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        Peter Miller

        Australia is so lucky to have such incredible natural resources.

        A few more years of screwing the Golden Goose with goofy/greenie/socialist policies and it will become just a distant happy memory.

        The UK used to have the strongest and healthiest economy in Europe in 1997, but 14 years of goofy/greenie/socialist policies has reduced it to being only a little bit better than Greece or Spain.

        The mining industry now looks upon Australia as being one of the most unattractive places in the world to invest.

        Taking the golden goose and strangling it has always been the economic cornerstone of the UK’s and Australia’s Labour parties – they just can’t help themselves


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        Peter Miller

        Catamon, which one of the nine men do you most relate to? Probably one of the first four. Just a small lesson illustrating why Labour’s policy of killing the Golden Goose never works.

        THE TAX SYSTEM EXPLAINED IN BEER

        Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.
        If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this..

        The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
        The fifth would pay $1.
        The sixth would pay $3.
        The seventh would pay $7.
        The eighth would pay $12.
        The ninth would pay $18.
        And the tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
        So, that’s what they decided to do

        The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by $20.” Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.

        The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody’s share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

        So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

        And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a 100% saving).
        The sixth man now paid $2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
        The seventh man now paid $5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
        The eighth man now paid $9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
        The ninth man now paid $14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
        And the tenth man now paid $49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).
        Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.

        But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got $1 out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got $10″
        “Yes, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved $1 too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me”

        “That’s true” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I only got $2? The wealthy get all the breaks”

        “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor” The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

        The next week the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important – they didn’t have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill.

        And that, boys and girls is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.


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          Catamon

          They could go to Argentina and invest in oil??

          Nah, we are being pretty moderate here.


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          catamon

          Dont cha love it when the “Australia is taxing our miners into leaving” meme gets shown up for the silliness that it is??

          During the past three years, the rest of the resources world has taken aggressive steps to ensure the one-off windfall gains from the resources boom are not lost forever.

          Following is a brief summary.

          Indonesia: By 2014, miners must process minerals such as iron, nickel and coal into value-added products before export. Last month, the government announced possible export bans to avoid a minerals rush before the new laws come into place. Foreign companies will be forced to gradually reduce stakes in local entities after five years of production. In the sixth to 10th year, foreign ownership in any resource project is limited to 49 per cent.

          South Africa: The world’s biggest mineral producer is debating a 50 per cent windfall tax on ”super profits” and a 50 per cent capital gains tax on the sale of mining tenements.

          Ghana: Africa’s second biggest gold producer plans to raise mining taxes from 25 per cent to 35 per cent, with a windfall tax on ”super profits”. Existing 5 per cent royalties on output remain in place.

          Guinea: The new frontier in iron ore and bauxite demands a 15 per cent stake in all mining projects, with an option to lift it to 35 per cent.

          Namibia: All new mining and exploration to be state-owned.

          Zimbabwe: Locals will own 51 per cent of all foreign miners.

          Nigeria: Wants all offshore oil contracts renegotiated.

          Mongolia: Wants a bigger stake in its Oyu Tolgoi project.

          Add to that list new mining taxes in India, Peru, China, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Chile, Kazakhstan and Zambia, all of which either are on the drawing board or have been introduced in the past three years.

          China, which is driving the resources boom, has gone one step further. It recently hit the headlines for its attempt to curb supply and inflate the price of its rare earths – minerals used in a variety of applications from aeronautical to industrial uses, and crucial to Japanese manufacturing – by implementing export quotas.


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            Dave

            .
            Catamonst:

            One by one!

            Indonesia: By 2014, miners must process minerals such as iron, nickel and coal into value-added products before export. Last month, the government announced possible export bans to avoid a minerals rush before the new laws come into place. Foreign companies will be forced to gradually reduce stakes in local entities after five years of production. In the sixth to 10th year, foreign ownership in any resource project is limited to 49 per cent.

            As if Freeport McMoRan Copper & Gold Inc’s (Sourced from Reuters) is going to stop exports – they already process the majority in Indonesia!

            South Africa: The world’s biggest mineral producer is debating a 50 per cent windfall tax on ”super profits” and a 50 per cent capital gains tax on the sale of mining tenements.

            MINEWEB reported that South Africa’s preliminary report on mining production and sales for February 2012 has revealed numbers that are the lowest since 1961. (MINEWEB).

            Ghana: Africa’s second biggest gold producer plans to raise mining taxes from 25 per cent to 35 per cent, with a windfall tax on ”super profits”. Existing 5 per cent royalties on output remain in place.

            A basket case from 1. to 6. – “Get land from Ministry of Health”?
            1.US oil sanctions on Iran can affect Ghana – Minister
            2.Ghana stops illegal scraps export
            3.11 injured in Indian owned steel factory explosion in Ghana
            4.Minaean Intl gets land from ministry of health Ghana
            5.Brawl brews over Sheini Hills iron ore mines in Ghana
            6.Minerals Commission dismisses iron mining allegations in Ghana 12

            Guinea: The new frontier in iron ore and bauxite demands a 15 per cent stake in all mining projects, with an option to lift it to 35 per cent.

            Reuters reported that Mr Alpha Conde president of Guinea plans to review mining contracts and cut the size of the army in 2012 risking the wrath of international investors and the country’s notoriously unruly soldiers.

            Namibia: All new mining and exploration to be state-owned.

            The Namibia based steel mill premier Otavi Steel and the Italy based company Danieli signed a commercial and technical agreement on March 7th 2012 for the development and construction of the Otavi Steel Nanomill in Otavi in Namibia. They own copper mines also! Maybe you should have told Italy also!

            Zimbabwe: Locals will own 51 per cent of all foreign miners.

            The minister said that “All mining companies that have not complied … should note that 51% of their shareholding is now deemed to be owned by the state.” (Source – miningmx.com) Owned by the LOCALS????? You’re not serious are you!

            Nigeria: Wants all offshore oil contracts renegotiated.

            Mr Lamido Sanusi governor of Central Bank said that “With oil prices where they’ve been since the beginning of the year I’m sure that we will be exposed to that amount long before the year runs out. If I was asked for advice I’d simply say pay what you have in the budget and simply stop paying. They take the money from the excess crude account you’ve got to borrow money.” Source – Gulf News. Maybe they’re running out of money Eh Catamonsgt – how many off shore contracts have they got Catamongst?

            Mongolia: Wants a bigger stake in its Oyu Tolgoi project.

            “State owned Erdenes Tavan Tolgoi is planning to list 29% of the company in a float that analysts expect could raise about USD 3 billion but Chief Executive Mr Baasangombo Enebish said on Monday a listing in February or March next year was more realistic than hopes of a market debut in 2012″ It just want money Catamongst!

            Add to that list new mining taxes in India, Peru, China, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Chile, Kazakhstan and Zambia, all of which either are on the drawing board or have been introduced in the past three years.

            Links please Catamongst – this is amazing news!

            Your last paragraph doesn’t make sense – please explain!


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            Catamon

            Your last paragraph doesn’t make sense – please explain!

            You haven’t been aware of the issues with China’s trying to control their rare earth exports then??

            You should maybe get out of the bunker more often Dave??

            Heres the link to the article the above came from since you missed it from the other post.


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            Dave

            .
            Ah! back again Catamongst!

            You are an avid reader of Ian Verrender (another cheer squad member of Waynes and Julias) – did you watch the little video put on by the Sydney Morning Herald also?

            You’ve got to read more across the spectrum! Education is the key!

            My reply was simply highlighting to you the errors in that article! Didn’t you read my reply or gain anything from the facts? No! Fair enough – toe the line Catamongst!

            Your understanding of rare earth metals is OK! But your reference to “aeronautical” is puzzzling as scandium resources in Australia are huge (now where would they be located Catamongst?) – and China owns it’s own resources – you are using reverse arguments to justify huge ammounts of money being for the AUSTRALIAN people – when it is just being wasted by the snobby elite called GOVERNMENT & the Greens!

            Look further than your employment gravy train Catamonsgt for facts – not the SMH!

            P.S. Have you read Tristan Edis’s latest rants on Climate Spectator – he used to post here – but probably only has another year or so before he’s kicked out too! EH! EH! EH!


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        Cookster

        Catamon, as you must know Australia’s strong economic position relative to other western nations is explained by our wealth of natural resources and China’s current demand for them. Very little of our strong relative strength can be attributed to the economic skill of the current elected Minority Australian government. There have been good Labor governments in Australia in the past (Hawke) but the current government is certainly not one of them by a long shot.

        Canada is a much better comparison to Australia in terms of demographics, population size and a similar wealth of natural resources. Canada has not introduced new Mining Taxes and have ruled out taxing carbon emissions. Canada is also a direct competitor to Australia.


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    Sonny

    Off topic but amusing.

    Wind turbines cause localized ground warming of up to 0.7 to 1 degree.
    (the same amount of warming we’ve experienced globally in 100 years)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/9234715/Wind-farms-can-cause-climate-change-finds-new-study.html

    I thought they were just ridiculously inefficient, horrendously costly and dangerous to winged animals… It seems that they can now cause global warming too. Maybe some “climate scientists” can site some thermometers here to bolster their case for a warming world?

    Hahhahhaa


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    Andrew McRae

    Wow, just wow. We used to joke here quite a lot about the carbon tax being like an “original carbon sin” version of the 16th century Catholic practice of paying Indulgences for faster forgiveness. Well no sooner has the carbon tax been announced than THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS BRINGING BACK INDULGENCES.

    :D :) :D


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      Kevin Moore

      Me thinks the Pope has got it wrong; if there is such a place as hell we are already here. Would it be over indulgent to ask how much coin might the priests be asking before they could be persuaded to turn this world into heaven?


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    That “dark cloud gathering over Parliament” can only signal imminent, rapid precipitation of condensed sewage.

    Well, they’ve been seeding the clouds for a number of years. It’s bound to happen.


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    Off topic but interesting – our UK Met office got it wrong and they want more money for better computers.

    BBC News
    30 April 2012 Last updated at 17:52
    April is the wettest month for 100 years
    Aerial video shows Somerset floods
    Man dies as floods create havoc
    Somerset’s rivers on flood alert
    Badminton Horse Trials cancelled
    This has been the wettest April in the UK in over a century, with some areas seeing three times their usual average, figures from the Met Office show.

    Met Office 3-month Outlook
    Period: April – June 2012 Issue date: 23.03.12
    The forecast presented here is for April and the average of the April-May-June period for the United Kingdom as a whole.
    This forecast is based on information from observations, several numerical models and expert judgement.

    SUMMARY – PRECIPITATION:
    The forecast for average UK rainfall slightly favours drier-than-average conditions for April-May-June as a whole,

    and also slightly favours April being the driest of the 3 months.

    With this forecast, the water resources situation in southern, eastern and central England is likely to deteriorate further during the April-May-June period. The probability that UK precipitation for April-May-June will fall into the driest of our five categories is 20-25% whilst the probability that it will fall into the wettest of our five categories is 10-15% (the 1971-2000 climatological probability for each of these categories is 20%).


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    Rod Stuart

    Readers of this thread might find this essay interesting. It was released this morning.
    http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/jr-nyquist/saving-the-free-market


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      Kevin Moore

      We come into the world with nothing – we spend a lifetime trying to accumulate with the same result as trying to fill a bag full of holes with sand, and then we leave the world with nothing. So all is vanity,then in what way are we to profit from life?


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        Mark D.

        According to the socialist left, we are not to profit. In fact, they believe profits are obscene, being wealthy is unfair to the poor. They also believe the poor deserve government help in extorting any such wealth so it can be “fairly” distributed to the poor.


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          MH

          Mark D,
          It doesn’t give anyone the incentive to work in that case . “The world owes them a living “syndrome which is the typical of Labor beliefs . No wonder we have so many people who expect the World has to feed them. Give me a Liberal Party any day , at least you feel content knowing that your hard work is rewarded


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    John from CA

    This is encouraging but hasn’t passed into law yet in Arizona.

    It looks like Arizona has recently awakened to UN intrusion on State Rights; State of Arizona SENATE BILL 1507.

    SENATE BILL 1507 – AN ACT
    PROHIBITING THE STATE AND ITS POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS FROM ADOPTING OR IMPLEMENTING THE UNITED NATIONS RIO DECLARATION ON ENVIRONMENT AND DEVELOPMENT.

    A. The state of Arizona and all political subdivisions of this state shall not adopt or implement the creed, doctrine, principles or any tenet of the United Nations Rio Declaration on Environment and Development and the Statement of Principles for Sustainable Development adopted at the United Nations Conference on Environment and Development held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil in June, 1992 or any other international law that contravenes the United States Constitution or the Constitution of Arizona.

    Bold emphasis was mine.

    In January 2012, the US Republican National Committee passed a resolution to EXPOSE UN AGENDA 21 AND REJECT SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT AND ICLEI. The Tea Party is now also engaged as are some Democrats. A couple of Oregon cities have already declined to renew support for ICLEI.

    Its a start.


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      Kevin Moore

      Is the USA no longer a Republic but a democracy?

      Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution states: “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government.”

      In a Republic, the sovereignty resides with the people. In a Republic, the people have no obligation to the government. Instead, the government is a servant of the people and obliged to its owner, We the People.

      But who could “We the people” be except those signatures on the contract.

      Perhaps G.W.Bush was right when he said, “The Constitution is only a piece of paper”.


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        John from CA

        Interesting question Kevin,
        The USA has always been and will always be a Republic of States. State powers are greater than Federal powers — power is reserved by the States. So, laws and policies vary State by State within the context of the Articles of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and as additionally prescribed by State Constitutions and related legislation.

        The key to understanding the USA, the rights of self-determination are vested in property rights and freedoms granted by the Constitution. There’s a set of Property Rights like the Right to Quiet Enjoyment that run with the ownership of Real Property (land). Close to an Allodial Title to land ownership, the only allowances USA land owners Grant to the Government are the Right of Taxation and the Right of eminent domain as prescribed by the 5th Amendment in the Articles of the Constitution.

        Eminent domain can only be exercised by Government and with just cause and rightful compensation. Its being abused under the Sustainability nonsense as are the Rights of Property Owners.

        Democracy is the overarching form of government that allows citizens as a group to determine public policy, the laws and the actions of their states, and an equal opportunity to express their opinions. But, within the context of a Republic of States.

        Hope that helps.


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          Kevin Moore

          John from CA,

          There is one large problem that you have over there. It is noticeable in your courts of law and Congress. If you look at the US flags therein you will notice that they are military and gold fringed. [Snip]

          [Do you have any reference for this wild claim?] ED

          I have noticed gold fringed flags creeping in to the Australian scene lately.


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            John from CA

            The flag is as beautiful as the Betsy Ross legend. Whether she designed it or manufactured it is irrelevant. Men and Women shared the same cause.

            I suppose I could simply point out the icons dictated by the Holy Roman Church and the Churches resolve to standardize them in one era, notably before the Industrial Revolution. Or, I can point you to designs that logically emigrated, along with hopes over generations, to USA shores.

            We don’t put much stock in anything other than the meaning of the symbols.

            The President has always been Commander in Chief but Federal powers are limited to Acts of War and Interstate Commerce. We could dress him up in a gold fringed jumpsuit and it wouldn’t mean a thing other than We The People used bad judgment and have very poor taste.

            Did the Australian People authorize a new flag(s)? If not, just ignore it unless it has some weird Indian symbol or turns you Green.


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            Kevin Moore

            ED,

            Re “wild claim”

            http://www.barefootsworld.net/uscivilflag.html

            “……Before 1940, no U.S. flag, civil or military, flew within the forty-eight states except in federal settings and installations. Only state flags did. Since the 1935 institution of Social Security and the Buck Act of 1940, 4 U.S.C.S. Ch. 4 Sec. 104-113, by clever legal maneuvers the feds have entirely circumvented the U.S. Constitution, and have overlaid federal territorial jurisdiction on the sovereign States, bringing them under the admiralty/military jurisdiction of Law Merchant, the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), the law of Creditors and Debtors.

            Since then the U.S. military flag appears beside, or in place of, the state flags in nearly all locations within the states. All of the state courts and even the municipal ones now openly display it. In the last half century they have more openly declared the military/admiralty law jurisdiction with the addition of the gold fringe to the flag, the military flag of the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces.

            Such has been the path that has brought us under the Law of the Military Flag. This should have raised serious questions from many citizens long ago, but we’ve been educated to listen and believe what we are told, not to ask questions, or think for ourselves and search for the truth.


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            John from CA

            Kevin,
            The UCC “is a set of statutes governing the conduct of business, sales, warranties, negotiable instruments, loans secured by personal property, and other commercial matters, which has been adopted with minor variations by all states except Louisiana.”

            Its purpose is to detail the laws that are the same (uniform) in most of the States. It doesn’t grant the Federal government any additional powers and it doesn’t cover all State laws. There isn’t any conspiracy to take over State Rights. If there was, we’d throw the Fed out of office after the Supreme Court struck down related legislation.

            State flags typically fly in State capitals and the “Law of the Military Flag” doesn’t exist as a law. We have the right to fly State flags as we chose so it doesn’t mean anything in my opinion.


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            John from CA

            Kevin,
            You keep linking to Tin Foil Hat sites to support this notion but the information from your last link was well written and indicates something entirely different from your notion.

            Yes, if I were to enter a foreign embassy in the US I would be subject to their “Rule”. But to construe the notion that the fringed flag in a US court implies anything other than US Constitutional sovereignty over the court is ridiculous. If you’re implying anything other than innocent until proven guilty in a US Court, you are misinformed.

            I suppose we could get the media to question the President on his position related to the fringed flag but I doubt many would take it seriously enough to bother asking him.
            Its more than likely still there because no one ever bothered to take it off.


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            Mark D.

            Kevin,
            You keep linking to Tin Foil Hat sites

            Well John from CA; you, me and some moderators agree (at least).

            I’ll add that it isn’t “rule” (as in under a ruler) it’s “rules” (as in rules of law) in the case of USA. We aren’t under any “rule” and gold fringes on the flag certainly do not change this reality for us.

            Until finding Kevin Moore here at Jo’s, I had NO idea how many tin foil type sites there were out there!


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            Kevin Moore

            Definition of AD HOMINEM

            1: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect

            2: marked by or being an attack on an opponent’s character rather than by an answer to the contentions made


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            John from CA

            Kevin,
            It wasn’t an Ad Hominem attack nor against you personally. Sorry if you took it that way.

            I took your comments seriously and attempted to explain my opinion. Some of the sites you’re pointing to as references are Tin Foil Hat in my opinion. It would be more credible if you can find government documents to link to.


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            Kevin Moore

            Here is a government example describing a military flag -

            http://www.scribd.com/pearsch/d/47434356-Gold-Fringed-US-Flag

            President, Dwight David Eisenhower, by Executive Order No.10834, signed on August 21, 1959 and printed in the Federal Register at 24 F.R. 6865, pursuant to law, stated that: “A military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a yellow fringe border on three sides.”["WHEREAS the Federal Property and Administrative Services Act of 1949 (63 Stat. 377), as amended [see Short Title note under section 471 of Title 40, Public Buildings, Property, and Works] authorizes the President to prescribe policies and directives governing the procurement and utilization of property executive agencies; WHEREAS the interests of the Government require that orderly and reasonable provision be made for various matters pertaining to the flag and that appropriate regulations governing the procurement and utilization of national flags and union jacks by executive agencies; be prescribed: NOW, THEREFORE, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States and as Commander in Chief of the armed forces of the United States, and the Federal Property and Administrative Services Act of 1949, as amended [see Short Title note under section 471 of Title 40, Public Buildings, Property, and Works], it is hereby ordered as follows: Part I – Design of the Flag – Section 1: The flag of the United States shall have thirteen horizontal stripes, alternate red and white, and a union consisting of white stars on a field of blue. Part II – Regulations Governing Executive Agencies: Section 21: The following sizes of flags are authorized for executive agencies;.. Section 32: As used in this order, the term executive agencies means the executive departments and independent establishments in the executive branch of the Government, including wholly-owned Government corporations”.]


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            John from CA

            Interesting Kevin, I have to admit I never gave it much thought. I wonder why Eisenhower decided to do this. It was after the Korean War. Maybe it had something to do with the Cold War.

            Prior to the ’60s so its unlikely it had anything to do with wild and crazy Hippies — my generation.

            The may be something about it in the Library of Congress online or National Archives.

            It probably intended to designate Federal Buildings and Federal Courts within the States. I’ll check when I get a chance.


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            John from CA

            Hi Kevin,
            I found the official document for the flag here — this is the US code.

            I also found a site for you that debunks the Admiralty flag claims here.

            Pretty interesting once you get into all the different claims out there.

            I told the Judge that I had noticed there was a “Yellow Fringed Flag” in her Courtroom. I asked her why she continued to recognize a defendant’s rights under both the US and NH Constitutions, since the presence of the “Yellow Fringed Flag” was supposed to suspend them, and impose Military Jurisdiction. She immediatly asked where I had heard of such nonsense. I then explained the whole story to her, about the web pages promoting the theory of ‘Civil Flag’, and the meaning behind the ‘Yellow Fringed Flag’; and the article I was working on. The Judge then replied, “I can assure you that the Constitution of the United States is still the Law of the Land! And the New Hampshire State Constitution remains in effect in NH Courtrooms, as well! Your Rights are secure. And, even if for some unheard of reason, the Constitution of the United States were no longer recognized, as long as you were in a Courtroom in the State of New Hampshire, you would still be protected under the New Hampshire Constitution and it’s Bill of Rights”! So there you have it! Straight from a District Court Judge!


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            Mark D.

            Kevin says:

            Definition of AD HOMINEM

            1: appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect

            2: marked by or being an attack on an opponent’s character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

            Because I point out his repeated (serial really) links to “foil hat” web sites.

            Let me reply:
            First, it would be impossible for me to appeal to your intellect. I simply cannot find it.

            Second, your character is made amply evident by what it is you link to. I don’t have the time to “attack” the subject of your bullshit tinfoil links.

            Quit hiding behind your recently obtained “manual of logical fallacies”. Learn to be more discerning with what you link to and that will resolve any problem I have.

            With regard to our flag, read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States

            You’ll find ample explanation for gold fringes and no foil is required.

            I’m so sorry that the truth sometimes hurts.


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            Kevin Moore

            Mark D,

            What is truth? And how come you think that your the most qualified to discern it?

            What is your definition of a “tin foil” site?

            I’m sorry, but I believe that you haven’t a clue.Don’t waste your time raving on to me,just go by the definition of AD HOMINEN and politely put up your arguement against the points made and I will politely answer.


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            Mark D.

            Politely answer why you, an Australian are posting links to paranoid sites (tinfoil) about the “pending” demise of the USA?

            You don’t find me posting such crap about AU do you?


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            Gee Aye

            Kevin certainly is an interesting study of human behavior. I think you have done well to discern a point in his pastings and to elicit some actual comment from kevin himself.

            What annoys me about Kevin is that this site gives him such large amounts of screen space in contravention of its own guidelines (ie make a point and provide commentary on links and pastes. He just pastes huge blocks of text or just pastes links, sans comment and often sans relevance).


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            Mark D.

            Gee, in the words my mother quoted:

            “Theirs not to reason why”

            Perhaps he has a free pass because he’s family? I have more conspiratorial notions but I don’t want to offend the hostess.


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    warcroft

    OT. . .

    Wind farms cause local climate change.
    Oh the irony!

    http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/05/wind-farms-linked-to-local-climate-change/#comment-278889

    Wind power, one the oldest and most established forms of alternative energy, might not be as green as we thought. A new study in the US has linked wind farms to local temperature rises of over 0.7C — enough to change local weather and climate.

    The study, published in Nature Climate Change, analysed temperature changes around large wind farms in Texas, over the period from 2003 to 2011. The researchers found that temperatures around the farms increased by 0.72C per decade. Writing in the journal, the researchers explain:

    “We attribute this warming primarily to wind farms… These changes, if spatially large enough, may have noticeable impacts on local to regional weather and climate.”

    The heating, it’s suggested, is a result of the energy created in the farms, as well as the movement and turbulence generated by turbine rotors. Interestingly, most of the heating occurs at night: it’s speculated that while the earth usually cools after the sun sets in turn bringing down the air temperature, the turbulence that the turbines produce keeps the ground around them warm for longer.

    There’s no denying that it’s a small-scale study, but with the wind power industry big and growing — it produced 238 gigawatts of power last year, up by 21 per cent over the previous year — it’s a concerning finding. Perhaps most worrying is the fact that future wind farms are set to be bigger than those that have come before, which the researchers say would exacerbate the effects. The scientists plan to widen the scope of their research to assess other farms in the future.


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    A.V.

    Here’s the crux of what Gillard has done . .

    Slipper suspended indefinitely.
    Still being paid hi lucrative $300,000 + p.a
    His suspension means he cannot enter the Chamber.
    He’s being paid “sit down” money. We are paying his “sit down money”.
    His Office is 30 metres from the Chamber.
    Rule is – He cannot miss 2 consecutive Votes in the House.
    Albanese will have to stand and ask the House to approve a “Leave of Absence” from the House for Slipper.
    What Leave of Absence? He’s 30 metres away from the Chamber!!!!!!
    In essence, the people of Fisher have been disenfranchised. They have NO Representative. A By election?
    If the Independents, who swore their decision would give us fair and Democratic Government, vote for a Leave of Absence for Slipper, they should be ashamed and they should be shot at dawn! Every one of them!


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      Rod Stuart

      One of Slippery Pete’s last acts as Speaker was to suspend a member ( I think the ALP member for Chester) for 8 hours. But he only sat in the penalty box for 2 hours. This means he can’t be in the House for 6 hours on the 8th. if that member is absent, and so is Slippery Pete, doesn’t that mean that the Abbotabbotabbot could float a vote of non confidence successfully? Even without support from Dopeshot and Windbag?

      Does this explain why the Red Queen wants to give slippery his moment in teh sun while he declares his absence?
      http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3980930.html
      As to when and how the speaker will stand aside is unknown. His statement in yesterday’s press was that he would:

      … make a short statement to the House and then invite the Deputy Speaker to take the chair as Deputy Speaker … (and thereby) avoid what could be a controversial debate on the floor of the Parliament.


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        MH

        If Slipper has been suspended , he should not be allowed to vote . There are serious charges here .

        As for Oakeshott and Windsor , these 2 and we can add Wilkie to that also are not thinking about Australia , it appears they are thinking about there personal gain only . They refuse to listen to the majority of Australians and what their constitunts want . These so called “Independents ” won’t even reply to emails and that shows the contempt they have for the voters ! I hope they go down at the next Elections !


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        Catamon

        Rod, if a no confidence motion passes then it has to go to the GG as a recommendation from the parliament.

        The GG would be within her rights to require Parliament to vote on the motion again when all members are present and would probably do so under those circumstances so as not to disenfranchise the electors in the seat of the member who is temporarily tossed.

        Of course in other situations like when that idiot Mirabella got herself tossed before the vote on the Carbon Price that wouldn’t apply as the Govt had the numbers to pass the Bills whether she was there or not. :)


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      MH

      AV ,

      That is a disgusting amount for taxpayers to pay , It works out with other benefits over $1000 a day , even if the man is not sitting in Parliament. Lets not forget his visits to Darlinghurst/Kings Cross , we are paying for his pleasures @$1000 per day .

      What does this man Slipper offer the voters ? Nothing !I understand the Coalition tried to get rid of him and at the time had no replacement , but when they did , he got the sniff that he would be replaced and decided to save his miserable hide and go to Gillard and her crowd .This tells you what sort of person Mr Slipper really is !


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        catamon

        So how much do we pay the LOTO for being a complete destructive tool?

        Actually, we would probably get better value if his payments were to keep him out of the HoR.


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    Olaf Koenders

    Jo..

    The Labor supporter thought Whitlam didn’t deserve to be put in the same category, “he had more class”.

    I watched Tony Abbott say that on a broadcast of their last meeting a few days ago, but I’m not sure if he was quoting it.


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      Rod Stuart

      Very scary indeed. How one little bearded mongrel can generate all this BS in one page is beyond me.


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      Kevin Moore

      Clive Palmer is entitled to run for election, on an agenda of self-interest and climate denialism. But he has to start to acknowledge the facts and explain why he thinks Australians don’t deserve the benefits of renewable energy and a clean environment.

      While Dan Cass raves on about Clive Palmer he ignores for example the fact that in the restricted area around Sydneys Waragamba dam wherein it is an $11,000 fine just to be found walking,that a Coal Seam Gas company is currently conducting drilling operations.

      It is absolutely essential for Sydney siders that a clean environment in the Waragamba dam catchment area is maintained. It won’t be Clive Palmers fault if Sydney ends up with a frakked up water supply.


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      Yikes!

      Wonders will never cease to amaze me!

      I actually got a comment up at this article I linked to above at the Drum.

      Can’t wait to see the replies.

      Lucky I have a flameproof nature.

      Tony.


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      rukidding

      Well did you all have your say because that is the only way to combat these people and the ABC is the place because I have found that as long as you are civil you will get published on the ABC sites.I have never as far as I remember not been published.It is the only way to refute the Dan Cass’s of this world.
      I am not a great writer but there are people on this site,you Tony are one,Who can.What we need is for people here to submit opinion pieces to the ABC and see what happens.If they get rejected then maybe we can get our parliamentary representatives to lean on the ABC management.
      We are not likely to front an ABC program but if we were to submit opinion pieces to the likes of the drum and the environment and the science pages it would be interesting to see on what grounds it would be rejected.
      Lets reclaim our ABC.


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        You all know how ‘civil’ I am, and perhaps sometimes I can get a little aggro, but in the main, I attempt to be factual.

        Four years ago I commented regularly at the ABC, even before they had commenting at their articles, and in those early days, they had a large forum site. I was continually flamed because people were just totally unaware of the facts. For almost two years I would comment and get shot at, even after they introduced commenting at their separate articles, and then the ABC just stopped posting my comments. I would occasionally try but never get anything up.

        This is the first for almost two years now that anything from me has been posted. It just seems odd really.

        Oddly, the biggest flaming I got was of a picture of Kevin Rudd in China. He was at a large scale coal fired power plant, and the photographer wanted an emotive image of Kevin at this disgusting foul emitting power plant. He (literally) laid on the ground in front of Kevin and the other three people, to get the photo of Kev with the backdrop of those foul emissions spewing out of the Plant …… from the cooling towers, all of it steam.

        Didn’t I cop it for pointing out that it was steam.

        I did have one win with the ABC though, and it directly concerns that steam.

        All they had when it came to showing emissions was that steam pouring from the big fat cooling towers. Every time they showed an article with that steam, I would comment on just that.

        After about three or so separate comments, the images changed, and it’s only recently they have gone back to showing the steam again.

        It was at that point they stopped accepting my comments.

        I’ve contributed at three or four Threads over at The Conversation, and at some other sites as well, but in the main, nothing gets up any more anywhere.

        I won’t give up, but I’m more selective these days.

        I really am surprised at just how ill informed people are.

        Tony.


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          Peter Lang

          Tony,

          I am experiencing the same thing. I was named in the lead article on ClimateSpectator y esterday. I made one reply before I saw the reference to me. I made several attempts to post a comment. All of them were factual. Yet all were deleted. In one of them, in frustration, I linked to these two recent excelent (IMO) articles.

          The corruption of the Royal Society in the Climate Emergency
          http://enthusiasmscepticismscience.wordpress.com/2012/03/15/the-corruption-of-the-royal-society-in-the-climate-emergency/

          and
          Madrid 1995: Was this the tipping point in the Corruption of Climate Science
          http://enthusiasmscepticismscience.wordpress.com/2012/04/21/madrid-1995-was-this-the-tipping-point-in-the-corruption-of-climate-science/#more-616

          That post was deleted too.

          Most of my comments I try to post on some other Left wing webn sites also get edited, censored or deleted.

          This seems to me to be ‘ant-science’ in that they feel they should delete the comments that do not support their beliefs and/or they do not want their readers to see. They are adopting the strategy and tactics of that well known Labor senator: “Whatever it takes”. “The means justifies the end” also seems to describe what is going on.


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          I have also got a second comment up at rukidding’s link to the Smart Meter Thread.

          If some of you do go to the first link, and see my comment, you’ll notice specifically from the comments in reply the problem I have.

          I can be factual, and people have no concept of what I’m attempting to say, and that’s why this site of Joanne’s is so good, because it allows me to post those comments, and explain them carefully, and then actually follow up in almost real time, something that can’t be done at the ABC, as heavily moderated as it is.

          Those who comment at the ABC areas that have comments are basically supportive of what the main intent of the original article is, and they really do not want to hear anything that goes outside (too far) of what that intent is.

          I’m actually quite surprised that either comment actually made an appearance at all.

          Tony.


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            rukidding

            Tony maybe you are to honest maybe if you just posted as Tony
            you may get through more often.Unless you have a permanent IP address that they can block I can’t see them scanning through all the Tony’s to see which ones to block.
            When you are dealing with these people you have to take all the advantages you can.


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            I don’t see why I should have to change my name, my email address, my IP address, or anything.

            I stand by whatever I have to offer.

            I see it like this, and this also applies here at Joanne’s blog as well.

            Perhaps many will read what I have, and of them, few will actually reply with a comment of their own. The replies that flame me do not bother me in the slightest.

            They are one of a small percentage who read it. The ones who read, and then learn something new are the ones I am specifically aiming at.

            It’s happening everywhere already. Read the comments at any site and you’d think that the vast percentage of people believe what is currently being perpetuated nearly everywhere, yet the actuality is the other way around.

            That’s because, at long last, there actually are places where the real truth is getting out there, and people are reading it.

            When they see factual comments getting flamed, and done so quite blatantly, that, of itself makes people think, and then they do go and learn for themselves.

            The facts that I have to offer are laid out as explained in an attempt to make them able to be understood by the average person. People will not comment about something they are not certain about themselves, so they’ll go and check.

            That is where I am the person who has won, even though I’ll never know it.

            They see independent confirmation, and they then know, that, hey, that guy was right.

            That is where I gain satisfaction. I occasionally get a rise out of shooting someone down, (with the facts) but again, all that does is confirm in the non commenter that perhaps there really is an alternative truth, the real truth, and it’s out there for anyone willing to look.

            Gradually, some people now know that when they see my name, it’s (more often than not) worth having a look at.

            The minute I have to try subterfuge, then, in effect, I start to play their game. I stick to what I know, and gradually, I’m beginning to know more.

            The Science was always a little hazy for me, because it was so far outside my understanding, and I want to understand as much as I can, because that then makes my task easier in explaining what I have to offer, and having the backup understanding behind that.

            Tony.


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    pat

    six of one, half a dozen of the other…

    the spectacle and open fraud that is the US Republican primaries, aided and abetted by the MSM, makes our scandals look miniscule by comparison:

    30 April: Climate Depot: Marc Morano: Why is Romney being supported by the Global Warming Crowd? ‘One of Romney’s largest donors is Julian Robertson Jr., who has given $1.3 million to the pro-Romney Super Pac’ Read the Full Article
    ‘Robertson serves on board of EDF & was a big cheerleader for Obama’s 2009 Cap-and-Trade bill. Robertson’s office said ‘he [Robertson] has confidence that Romney, once he’s in there, will do the right thing.’ — Others backing Romney include billionaire Trammel Crow & Rob Sisson, who heads up a group called Republicans for Environmental Protection. And one of Romney’s economic advisors is Greg Mankiw, who has spent much of his career pushing for a carbon tax’
    http://www.climatedepot.com/a/15696/Why-is-Romney-being-supported-by-the-Global-Warming-Crowd-One-of-Romneys-largest-donors-is-Julian-Robertson-Jr-who-has-given-13-million-to-the-proRomney-Super-Pac

    even Solyndra was a Bush project:

    26 April: Forbes: Patrick Michaels: Will Mitt Romney Recycle George W. Bush’s Global Warming Fiasco?
    Andy Karsner, who was Assistant Energy Secretary. He developed the Department of Energy loan guarantee program that funded Solyndra. It’s a fact that the Bush Administration tried to ram through the Solyndra loan in its final two weeks, but the Department’s credit committee held it up subject to further scrutiny, as the Administration’s clock expired. When the government pays off your loan for your product that cannot do so, this is known as a subsidy. Karsner could be Secretary of Energy…
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickmichaels/2012/04/26/will-mitt-romney-recycle-george-w-bushs-global-warming-fiasco/

    if u want, u can find Marc Morano repeatedly stating in a recent video interview with Alex Jones that it is probably better if Obama wins in November because, if Romney becomes President, Republicans will sit back and stop criticising because THEIR Party is in power, while Romney carries out the exact same CAGW policies as Obama.


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    A.V.

    Today, those of you who care, those who work hard and support our beloved Austalia, MUST email, write, telephone Mr. Windsor and Mr. Oakeshott.
    We must be clear about how we feel and how they are keeping us in this wretched “holding pattern”.

    New Paradigm? Well, I hate it!!

    What about you on this Blog? Are you content, pleased and happy with the standard of Politics the Independents have handed to us?

    Email Mr. Windsor here: Tony.Windsor.MP@aph.gov.au
    Mr. Oakeshott here: Robert.Oakeshott.MP@aph.gov.au

    Blogging here is a good thing. Contacting these men is imperitive!


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      Rod Stuart

      I have been emailing the pair of them for months, along with Katter and Crook and Wilkie.
      The blighhters never reply.


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        MH

        Rod Stuart ,
        The only time these mongrels will respond is when when you say you live in their electorate , give your full name and ADDRESS ……probably so they can mark you on their anti list of voters .

        BUT in mentioning that , keep hounding these Independents , at least they get the message that voters are not happy with them or what they personally are doing to destroy the Country .Jam their Email INboxes continually .


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    MH

    I agree AV every voter who stands against what this Gillard Socialist Government is doing , should bombard the email boxes of the “Independents” these people should be with the Public’s vote not the Government’s vote ! That’s why they classify themselves as “Independents” If they want to follow Gillard’s Movement then they should say they are Labor MPs .

    We are the taxpayers who pay these “Independents to act for us , not for themselves or the Gillard Government !.


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      catamon

      Actually MH, sounds like Tony Windsor is pretty relaxed and comfortable.

      But Mr Windsor said when he actually spoke to his constituents they ultimately agreed with the Labor-driven reforms of aged care, the National Broadband Network, renewable energy and action on the Murray-Darling Basin.

      “I’ve always worked on the theory if you work hard in a parliament on legitimate issues the people might give you another go,” he said.

      “The preoccupation with the next parliament means we miss enormous opportunities, particularly for regional Australia.

      Loved his “rabid dog” comment in relation to Abbott yesterday. :)


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        MH

        Run along Catamon , leave the adult talk to the adults , go and play with your toys like a good little kid !Come back when you are a bit older and a bit wiser .


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        J.H.

        I don’t know Catamon, Windsor looked and sounded quite unhinged. His face is constantly locked in in a sardonic rictus nowadays. Completely different from the early days of this dysfunctional Government when he seemed so sure of himself….

        Grinning like a fool, all red faced, while foaming vitriolic descriptions of your political opponents…. Windsor sounds a tad more rabid than most I must point out.


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          Catamon

          Grinning like a fool, all red faced, while foaming vitriolic descriptions of your political opponents…. Windsor sounds a tad more rabid than most I must point out.

          Ahh gwasshopper, that would be projection then would it??

          Or you could have been mistaken and actually seen Jo Hockey attempting discourse on matters economic again?? He always seems to get sweaty and bothered when he tries that.


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            Wayne, s. Job

            Catamon, that would be short for cat among the pigeons no doubt. It is sad news that I have to relate to you, your claws and teeth of recent times have been removed.

            Your tongue has been left in place so that you can talk, however the verbage that emanates is only a distraction for laughter, maybe your last hope is like the black Knight maybe try and lick us to death.

            Your cause of government and global warming Is defunct, please go and have a good lay down. P.S. Stop taking the blue pills.


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          A.V.

          I don’t know Catamon, Windsor looked and sounded quite unhinged. His face is constantly locked in in a sardonic rictus nowadays. Completely different from the early days of this dysfunctional Government when he seemed so sure of himself….

          Grinning like a fool, all red faced, while foaming vitriolic descriptions of your political opponents…. Windsor sounds a tad more rabid than most I must point out.

          ——————————————————————————–
          You have nailed it! The man is skittish and presents as a complete nong. Both Windsor and Mouthshott know their days are numbered & they will have NO job come the next Election. They know what is right, but! they have sold their souls to Gillard when they made deals, personally, with this despicable woman. They will cling to Labor like Tar Babies to save their lucrative salaries. That’s the “new paradigm” – “beautiful in its ugliness”. These men are in essence, are unprincipled, amoral, designing wimps and rogues.

          Again, I urge all of you here to email both men. Don’t permit them have a moments peace and prompt them of their responsibilities to Australians. Never mind their misplaced adulation of Gillard. Australians have stopped listening to her – they should also! Their puerile behaviour is stomach churning.


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    A.V.

    Never-the-less “Rod Stuart” their Staff see the emails. They bring matters to hand and please, never under-estimate people power.

    It matters not that I don’t ever receive a reply. What can they say? I don’t seek more spin and lies, but I do seek to have my say.

    That’s why I continue to do it and that’s why I urge you all to do the same. Never give up!!

    Dear MH

    The LIEbor Independents have never been “independent”. They did deals with Gillard – not the Gov, but with Gillard herself. If you lay down with a dog, you get up with her fleas. Harsh? Yes, but truthful and for now at least, I have the liberty to say so!
    Thanks for your response.


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    KeithH

    Some interesting Poll results:

    NineMSN – Monday, 30 April 2012:Do you want an election to be held now? Yes: 91545 (74%) No: 31397 (26%)Total Votes: 122,942

    Herald Sun Monday, 30 April 2012: Do you support an early election? Yes: (92%) No: (8%) Total Votes 37,709


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      Joe V.

      Why ? Is the country in trouble ? Such as the man-in-the street would see anyway ?


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        KeithH

        Beats me Joe V but former Gillard supporter NSW right wing heavy Joel Fitzgibbon seems to thinks so! He has reportedly told her today his aupport has been withdrawn and Rudd’s return is imminent! And Popeye, if you’re still around I have the following post awaiting moderation on the Anna Rose ‘Madlands’ site extolling “transformational activism” – link provided by Joe V at 14.1.

        “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

        ” May 1, 2012 at 3:30 pm

        Anna. Remember this exchange when you met Marc Morano on I Can Change Your Mind?

        “…Producer: Anna I’m curious…you don’t want to discuss anything at all?

        Anna Rose: I really happy to listen to what Marc has to say, but as I said at the start, I’m not going to be engaging in point-to-point debate because he is known for making things up.

        Nick Minchin: What did he make up?

        Anna Rose: Do a simple Google search, you’ll find hundreds of examples.

        Nick Minchin: What did you make up, Marc?

        Marc Morano: I don’t know. I can’t defend myself against non-attacks, which is what she is doing. Basically she’s saying I’m a liar so she won’t talk to me.”

        A commenter at Climate Depot took you at your word on apparently how you determine who you’ll debate and did a Google Search on ‘Marc Morano makes things up’ and got 547,000 hits.
        In fairness he then Googled ‘Anna Rose makes things up’ and got 46,000,000 hits!

        To verify or disprove this effort I did a similar Bing search yesterday. Result:

        Marc Morano makes things up: 106,000 hits
        Anna Rose makes things up: 93,000,000 hits!

        If everyone had used your method it appears that you were lucky anyone even spoke to you but perhaps they were just more open-minded and had innate courtesy!”

        Be interesting to see if it survives moderation! Cheers all


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    incoherent rambler

    One of the wonderful things about political cheerleaders (e.g. catamon), is that sweet feeling we will have on election night.


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    KeithH

    For anyone who hasn’t done so, I urge you to go to the ABC ‘I Can Change Your Mind on Climate Change Survey’, click on Characters; Marc Morano; read more; which will bring up the full transcript link of his meeting with poor Anna Rose. I warn you if you’re a little squeamish there’s a lot of blood on the floor and it all belongs to that poor pathetic naive little “transformational activist”. No wonder she chose to remain struck dumb!

    Her meeting with Richard Lindzen wa a little less bloody but that poor girl just put herself in such deep water right along the line and then found she couldn’t swim. No wonder some of the rabid warmists tried to dissuade her from taking part – they must have known how inadequate, unbelievable and scientifically illiterate she really was.

    Makes me even more angry that Gillard handed her organisation AYCC $275,000 of taxpayer’s money to brainwash more impressionable gullible young people in Australia!


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    Popeye

    Yes Keith – still around mate.

    I have just checked over at “Madlands” site (interesting name???) and GUESS WHAT.

    You’re comments NOT posted as yet!

    Now that was unexpected – NOT!!

    I’ll try to post something similar (perhaps on one of her newer articles) later this evening.

    Don’t think I’ll fare any better though.

    Cheers,


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    Juliar

    Tony Abbott’s speech at the Liberal Party Victorian Council meeting was dissapointing when considering his comments about Climate change and reducing emissions.

    http://www.liberal.org.au/Latest-News/2012/04/28/Tony-Abbott-Address-to-the-Liberal-Party-of-Australia.aspx

    But I guess there is still hope with The Great Dr Dennis Jensen saying that scepticism to CAGW is still strong.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuynwL6gum0


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    Billy P B

    I’ve just come back from the Yes, Prime Minister play and it was wonderful. Global Warming also plays a major part in the story (But I won’t spoil it by telling you what it is).

    Check it out if you can. I believe it’s still playing in Sydney.


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    Imkay

    TonyfromOz

    You spoke about the steam in this thread … comment here (don’t think the link has been posted in this thread):

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/misleading-smoke-gets-in-publics-eyes-20120501-1xwzs.html

    - ps

    longtime reader, first post

    (Your post and link was fine the first time but it was your FIRST post that caused it to be put into the pending bin for moderator approval) CTS


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      Imkay,

      When I mentioned that subject above, I did it because it’s always been something that infuriated me, and in fact it serves to accentuate what I added, that people are nowhere near as stupid as some sections of the media think we are.

      Average people who never leave comments, but still cruise the sites reading all this ‘stuff’, see something like that ….. and they remember it.

      It all adds up to an overall picture that is very slowly developing.

      If you were to believe the meme that some sections of the media push, you would think that the debate really is over.

      However general opinion is in fact quite the opposite, and polling is actually beginning to bear that out.

      Those who are confident to leave comments will invariably support the meme, and they are not the target we are aiming at. We aim directly at those people who just read what there is, and then take it in. They don’t have to comment, because now, after seeing how this CAGW ship is beginning to founder, we realise that they are out there.

      They may not comment at any of the articles, or here at blogs like this, but the time that they really can leave a comment that counts is when no one knows it was them.

      In the privacy of the polling booth.

      Then, the side that has been so zealously pushing this meme are only left to wonder at the following.

      “and I thought we were doing so well!”

      Tony.


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    MadJak

    Breaking news:

    The Police finally strike the HSU east branch in pitt street.

    Pity the officials have already had over 3 years to destroy the evidence.

    Does anyone else here think that ASIO should be automatically involved when accusations are made against senior civil servants and politicians?


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      MH

      God knows the amount of C O R R U P T I O N that is going on within Labor and the Unions . It’s about time most of them go to gaol !


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        MadJak

        One thing is for sure, we’re only aware of the amateur corruption.

        I would bet a large chunk of change that there is much much more – not just within the HSU but throughout the whole Australian Labor Party system.

        It must be rotten to the core for this sort of stupidity to have existed.


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      crakar24

      Mad Jack,

      ASIO are more for international issues not for corrupt pollies who cant keep it in their pants.


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        MadJak

        Carkar,

        I understand, however, this sort of negligence doesn’t exactly put us on a good international standing either.


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          crakar24

          Actually on second thoughts the carbon tax scam is a world wide internationally link embezzlement program so you are right Mad Jack ASIO should be investigating.

          Cheers

          Crakar24


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      Kevin Moore

      Ray Hadley 2GB just announced that somebody has been charged with acting in contravention of a search warrant by carrying documents in a shopping bag out of the HSU building.


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        MH

        Someone caught in the act of disposing documents probably on their way to the shredding machine ? Hopefully these corrupted Unions will be caught out . Good to see the Police are on the job , hope the Unions hang !


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          MH

          LATEST NEWS on the document bag

          A bag of smuggled documents has been intercepted at a nearby carpark during a police raid of Health Services Union (HSU) headquarters in Sydney.
          At least one staff member may now be charged as part of the corruption investigation, fraud and cyber crime squad commander Col Dyson said.
          “I have major concerns, however, efforts have been made to interfere with information relevant to our investigation,” he told reporters after the Wednesday morning raid.

          “I don’t dismiss the possibility of criminal charges arising from those efforts.”

          Fraud squad officers from Strike Force Carnarvon raided the HSU offices on Pitt Street, in Sydney’s CBD, about 9am (AEST).

          They seized forensic accounting documents and computers.

          Mr Dyson said police also discovered a bag of documents relevant to the investigation in the carpark of the office block.

          “Yes, that is correct,” detective superintendent Dyson told reporters.

          “The bag of documents was intercepted.”

          Mr Dyson would not say if the documents had been discovered on a person, dumped or in a car.

          He said HSU staff were co-operative with the search warrant but police had spoken to an individual and may lay charges against that person.

          “I would anticipate the charges will be put forward in the relatively near future,” Mr Dyson said.

          Police said the scope of the warrant focuses on information about the union dates back to the mid-1990s.

          Earlier, HSU national secretary Kathy Jackson said she expected the raid would uncover corrupt behaviour.

          She agreed with suggestions that executives had created their own fiefdom and engaged in free-for-all business practices.

          “I have no doubt that the police will uncover documents that will prove that,” she said outside the office on Pitt Street.

          Two months ago, officers from the same strike force searched the home of graphic designer John Gilleland on Sydney’s northern beaches.

          He had allegedly provided credit cards to HSU former general secretary turned federal MP Craig Thomson and the union’s head Michael Williamson.

          Mr Thomson and Mr Williamson are also accused of taking secret commissions from Mr Gilleland.

          Mr Williamson is on paid leave from the union while Mr Thomson was suspended from the Labor party earlier this week pending the outcome of investigations.

          It has separately been alleged Mr Thomson misused a union credit card for prostitutes, lavish meals and cash withdrawals when he was the HSU’s national secretary between 2002 and 2007.


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            MH

            Michael Williamson was caught red-handed in the car park. Trying to destroy the documents ? This reminds me of a thief getting caught with his fingers in the til LOL!!
            The Police have removed records and computers from the Union .


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      Wayne, s. Job

      ASIO by their very nature and mandate would not advertise the fact if they were involved.


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    KeithH

    Apoxonbothyourhouses @ 28. Don’t know whether you’re notified of all replies but I posted one late that you may have missed, so here it is again. You asked:

    “Where is AbbottAbbottAbbott on union supervision? Why are the unions handling millions of $ not subject to the IDENTICAL controls and regulations as corporations?. Unions should be treated the same way as BHP or CBA and if union “directors” break the law they should be dealt with accordingly.”

    It appears Tony heard your plea and replied here, so at least we have him on record!

    http://www.liberal.org.au/Latest-News/2012/04/28/Tony-Abbott-Address-to-the-Liberal-Party-of-Australia.aspx


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    Amfortas

    Ahh, the caring, sharing, clean government we were promised by Feminists. If women ruled, no longer would we have lies or corruption. Nor wars outside nor infighting inside. No, women leaders ‘Listen’. They act on everyone’s side, ‘Collaborating’, finding ‘Consensus’, Negotiating Conflict-Resolution. They have ‘Empathy’ and ‘communication skills’. No Stabbing in the back. (Well, just the one – to get into power). But to be fair, Feminists never claimed that there would be no pants on fire.


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      Gee Aye

      I’d be interested to see who claimed this. I’d be guessing no one or at least that you have simplified something so much that your interpretation has no relationship to the original.

      But with the web the way it is, one can make any claim and find something that corroborates it so I’ll qualify the above by asking for a study or scholarly essay produced by a well known and regarded feminist.

      I hope you get over your problem.


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    MH

    Julia Gillard’s own MPs are now wanting her to stop the Carbon Tax or at least drop the price of the $23 a ton rip off Carbon Tax Con.
    This certainly shows what they actually feel about the Carbon Tax . The Gillard Government is certainly in a mess and again shows why they should not be in Government .Scandals , corruption surrounds them well !I dont think there has ever been such a mess of a Government as we are seeing today . Gough Whitlam was bad , but Gillard takes the cake this time !


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    Dave

    I just realized UWA’s greatest quack Stephan Lewandowsky has an article at The Drum — comments already closed. Try a search for user “harry” and read some of the best warmist onwage you’re likely to come across. Well done whoever you are.

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3979526.html


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      Dave

      Example:


      It’s totally circular.

      One of this article’s “proofs” that Climate change exists is that WHO says 150,000 people die each year. And WHO says 150,000 people die each year because they believe climate change is happening and having affects now, but couldn’t get any evidence, so they made up the numbers based on their beliefs.

      What a nutty world we live in.


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      Cookster

      Thanks Dave, I really enjoyed “harry”. I imagine Harry’s replies must have shaken the confidence of some of Mr Lewandowsky’s unquestioning ‘fans’.


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      Wayne, s. Job

      It was not just Harry but a ship load of people maybe 50% that had a go at Mr Lewandowsky.
      Larry was just more astute at it, a very thinking and wise man.


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    AV

    MH

    I strongly suspect that all Ministers will be biting their nails & crying in their beer, at the prospect of losing their lucrative jobs with perks.
    If they think by lowering the Carbon Dioxide Tax per tonne will help save them (not necessarily HER), they will throw that into the mix. They must be frenzied. Keneally is now giving advice to Gillard. A breathing cataclysm!

    Watching Wayne Swan in TV interviews today epitomized the frenzied state of an otherwise drone. Today he was rocking forward & bouncing on his chair and for a moment there, I thought he would launch himself and become a flying Duck!!!

    I do wonder if they sleep soundly. Imagine them tossing & turning, kicking the dog, screaming at the spouse and bopping the kids.
    The new paradigm is shining brilliantly – NOT! This new model is “beautiful in its ugliness”- NOT!

    I find I don’t make jokes anymore. I just watch Gillard and her Government Ministers and let the facts speak for themselves.


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    A.V.

    MH

    I strongly suspect that all Ministers will be biting their nails & crying in their beer, at the prospect of losing their lucrative jobs with perks.
    If they think by lowering the Carbon Dioxide Tax per tonne will help save them (not necessarily HER), they will throw that into the mix. They must be frenzied. Keneally is now giving advice to Gillard. A breathing cataclysm!

    Watching Wayne Swan in TV interviews today epitomized the frenzied state of an otherwise drone. Today he was rocking forward & bouncing on his chair and for a moment there, I thought he would launch himself and become a flying Duck!!!

    I do wonder if they sleep soundly. Imagine them tossing & turning, kicking the dog, screaming at the spouse and bopping the kids.
    The new paradigm is shining brilliantly – NOT! This new model is “beautiful in its ugliness”- NOT!

    I find I don’t make jokes anymore. I just watch Gillard and her Government Ministers and let the facts speak for themselves.

    ——————————————————————————–


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    Rod Stuart

    Some asked “What can be done about it? Well, here are 12 things that we can do about it. BTW, does anyone know about “CANdo The voice of Australia”?
    http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/charles-hugh-smith/resisting-financial-feudalism


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    MH

    ARE SOME AUSTRALIANS REALLY STUPID ?

    The Government wants families to take in boat people into their homes (without Health and Security checks ) for the grand sum of $130 per person to a maxium of 2 people per household . Now that works out at $15 PER DAY , or for 2 people $30 PER DAY .
    Centrelink reckons so far they have had 500 idiots apply to give a room .

    NOW most families send their children to Childcare because they have to work . Some families pay as much as $85 PER DAY for 8 hours a day (5 days total equal $425 )NOT $15 a day
    Those who are keen enough to have a boat person in their home surely mustn’t be thinking too well , out of that $15 dollars they have to feed these people their special needs food or do they think they can get away with boiled rice for breakfast ,lunch and dinner ?

    .


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      crakar24

      In keeping with the theme (are some Australians stupid) we all know the rorts from Williamson/Thomson re the HSU scandal and then of course the Slipper affair i just want to give you an example of how it really works.

      Now i needed to get a copy of Acrobat professional (V9) and because of defence cutbacks i had to organise unit funds to purchase but to get the purchase approved i need a 2 star to sign off on it!!!!!!!!!!!! The bloody two star colonel so i can buy $60 software and yet here is these two theives living the high life in Canberra.

      Oh just thought of another example, one guy used his credit card to buy a one way ticket to London by the time he landed at Heathrow they were waiting for him and yet Slipper and Thomson get protected by her. This makes me very angry.

      Vent over thanks for listening


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    Ian

    Good article. Gillard’s government has made the Rudd (‘economic conservative’) government look good. Rudd’s government made Whitlam look good. Must be so hard for modern day Keating and Hawke to go through the motions of suporting Gillard.

    Bad as he was, Whitlam did one good thing, he bought Jackson Pollocks Blue Poles for the National Gallery. He was well qualified to be a Gallery curator, not a prime minister. Ms Gillard should stick with what she admittedly prefers and seems reasonably competent, talking to kids and stuff.


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    A.V.

    I listened to a woman on radio saying that she and her daughter were renting a room to an Afghani and they had to go around turning off lights and picking up empty mugs and food wrappers after him. He had to be encouraged to shower, change clothes and their Power Bill soared, for which he contributed NOTHING! He helped himself to their tea and milk and left the fridge door OPEN!!

    Needless to say, they contacted the Authorities and said they wanted him OUT. They were offered counseling because the Authorities said they needed to learn how to handle the man. They were told it was THEM who had to make adjustments and be patient.
    They put their foot down and said: “P…. Off! Get him out or we’ll put him on the street.” They began to take notice when she told them that!

    She said they were classed as heartless and rude, but that same day 2 women came to the home, talked to him in private and escorted him to their car. She said they protested and abused both her and her daughter and they were made to feel like they were horrible people. She said they had to stand their ground and then ordered them and this chap from their home immediately! The daughter threatened to put the hose on the 3 of them!


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    MH

    That’s a bit of a worry AV ,

    We are opening up a nightmare ! I wonder if Bob Brown and the rest of the advocates will take any of these people into their homes ?

    Last night on the ABC pointed out that many of these people are using forged ID, and have mental problems, and fitting in problems, and cannot cope with life here despite being economic refugees, so taking them in would be a huge problem. Sounds like very risky business to me


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    A.V.

    MH

    A Caller to radio, just now, called to say he lived in Hoxton Park, NSW. The Government called his home, his wife answered the ‘phone.
    They explained – From the Census Form, he and his wife had come to their notice as having 4 bedrooms but only 2 children. They went on to ask if they would take-in a Refugee! They explained that they would receive $130 per person + Food Expenses.
    His wife hung up!

    From the Census Form?? Surely this is a Privacy matter? What “secure” person is perusing our Census Forms? Who are these people?
    Have they been employed as “casuals” and can they glean other information from our Census Forms? Gillard is a Commo/Socialist, but this is gaining momentum. Privacy infringements of any description, has made me livid today.

    I have also learned, that Government employees are door-knocking.
    Personally, if they come onto my premises on Government business in relation to this matter, they will be given short shrift!
    I also have an un-listed phone number. Should they abuse my privacy, I will need to take it further.

    More imposed stress . . . more trouble from this Labor/Green/Socialsit PM!


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      Gee Aye

      It is a worry if you believe this. If true it is a serious breach of the legislation and someone will be prosecuted. I bet the person in question will not raise this with any authorities because they made it up. Why did they do this? They are racist.


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      • #
        A.V.

        Poor form & typical of a Labor Voter and die-hard supporter.

        When all else fails, break the glass and use the racist card!

        Next!


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  • #
    MH

    AV ,

    This is certainly becoming a Communist Country under Government control . What’s next ? mandatory force ?


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    • #
      Gee Aye

      yeah! mandatory force!

      umm

      what?

      what day of the week do I hand over my turnips to the collective?

      ps my turnips are seedlings at the moment.


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  • #
    Speedy

    If the ABC was Relevant, Part 33
    (The climate issue.)

    Bryan: Tony Abbott, what is the greatest problem facing the nation today?

    John: Easy one Bryan. It’s AGW.

    Bryan: AGW? You sure?

    John: Positive Bryan. AGW is real. The evidence is compelling and the consequences are frightening. The government must take urgent action against AGW before it’s too late.

    Bryan: AGW?

    John: Yep. AGW.

    Bryan: Anthropogenic Global Warming?

    John: What about it?

    Bryan: The greatest problem we’re facing today.

    John: No it isn’t.

    Bryan: You just said so! AGW – Anthropogenic Global Warming.

    John: No I didn’t. I said AGW – Australian Government Wankery.

    Bryan: [Puzzled] Is it serious?

    John: Deadly serious Bryan. Political Scientists warn that increasing volumes of toxic emissions from the government, in the form of hot air and other GHG’s…

    Bryan: [Suspicious] GHG – Greenhouse gases?

    John: Green’s Haphazard Guesses.

    Bryan: Yep…

    John: … GHG’s are resulting in long term catastrophic harm to the political environment. Since August 2010, this government has dangerously increased its GHG and other bovine emissions…

    Bryan: Bovine emissions?

    John: From the end that doesn’t go “Moo”, Bryan.

    Bryan: Right…

    John: … and caused the political climate to be heated at an unprecedented rate, resulting in global melting of government credibility and widespread retreat of popular support.

    Bryan: Can you think of any examples?

    John: For starters, there’s the Timor Solution, the Malaysia Solution, The Citizen’s Assembly, The Carbon Tax. Anything by the “Real” Julia Gillard, Wayne Swan or Greg Combet. Tim Flannery rates a special mention. Ross Garnaut is full of it.

    Bryan: I see what you mean…

    John: And there’s more, Bryan! Scientists also warn of rising levels of public indignation, which are “very likely” to push some species over the brink of extinction. The most obvious being the marginal seat-dwelling labor backbencher (Lefty Vulgaris). If present trends continue, then habitat loss due to AGW will force these magnificent animals to consider opportunities in the real estate industry. Or worse.

    Bryan: The future looks grim…

    John: Yes Bryan. Picture their lovely little faces, smiling at you from roadside hoardings, inviting you to phone this number for a free appraisal…

    Bryan: [Concerned] Is it already too late for urgent action?

    John: There is a tipping point – the point of no return – and some claim that the government has already reached it. Others, however, believe that the political climate can be saved – but only if the government takes urgent action – now.

    Bryan: What urgent action needs to be taken – now?

    John: The government needs to adopt and deliver sustainable policies – policies that are based on well-considered logic, ethical principles and genuine science – targeting the longer term benefit of all Australians. As opposed to knee-jerk reactions, government by press release, and ideologically bent favouritism of factional interests.

    Bryan: They’re stuffed then, aren’t they?

    John: Yep.


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