JoNova

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News thread May 15 and 500th Post!

There are many comments coming in on the previous thread about the 2nd law of Thermodynamics. This thread is for people who want to discuss other issues. I’ve moved comments from the other threads. PS: This is the 500th post on joannenova.com.au!

  1. Spend more on everything says Fiona Armstrong in The Australian
  2. Australian legislation sneaks through the upper house about carbon pricing?
  3. The Australian BOM knocks back the FOI requests for the NZ NIWA review

1. Spend more on everything says Fiona Armstrong in The Australian

Yes, thanks to all who’ve pointed out the reply to my Australian article about medical research vs climate change spending. I’m delighted The Australian want to encourage this debate. I will be sending them a reply soon. I hope they provide a forum to really test the value of our tax dollars.  Bring it on!

Her reasoning is all the usual, unproven or disproven claims about what climate change causes (Storms, Floods, Droughts!), and her ignorance that deaths from cold-snaps outnumber the heat wave fatalities.

Apparently either we create money from nothing and pay for everything (and die-by-inflation) or if we want to prevent bushfire deaths and heatstroke we should take money from medical research and forestry management and spend it on installing pink batts and solar panels?

Climate action has clear public health dividend
The Australian
THE extraordinary claims by Joanne Nova that “wasting money on climate change betrays the sick”, published here on May 7, demands a response from a position

International medical journal The Lancet outlined the stark facts in 2009: that the effects of climate change from global warming “puts the lives and wellbeing of billions of people at increased risk”.

Climate change is already responsible for the deaths of more than 300,000 people each year. Five million more deaths are expected during the next decade if no effective action is taken to reduce climate risk. The direct health effects of climate change include deaths, injury and hospitalisation associated with increasingly frequent and intense bushfires, cyclones, storms, floods and heatwaves.

Indirect effects include increases in infectious and vector-borne diseases, worsening chronic illness and health risks from poor water quality and food insecurity.

There are further flow-on health effects associated with climate-related social, economic and demographic disruption.

Healthcare services in Australia are already experiencing dramatic increases in service demand from climate-related events such as heatwaves and floods.

The heatwave that preceded the Black Saturday bushfires in Victoria in 2009 saw a 62 per cent increase in mortality from heat-related illnesses and worsening chronic medical conditions.

During this five-day event, there was a 46 per cent increase in demand for ambulances; an eight-fold increase in heat-related presentations to emergency departments; a 2.8-fold increase in cardiac arrests; and a threefold increase in patients dead on arrival.

So there are compelling reasons to invest in climate action to protect human health.

2. Australian legislation sneaks in about carbon pricing?

As Damien and Val both pointed out, legislation snuck through last week — what does it mean, and can anyone find the wording of it? Is it just the equivalent of a public chastity vow — just making sure the independents sign up, and are known to have signed up, so they can be reminded later?

Damian: Under the cover of darkness the Parliament Lower House votes on carbon pricing Independents Wilkie, Oakeshott & Windsor backed the motion. The coalition & Bob Katter voted against the motion that passed 74 votes to 72. NOW WE KNOW WHERE THEY STAND!!!!!!

http://s.ytimg.com/yt/swfbin/watch_as3-vflRkb4Mi.swf

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8248531/carbon-price-backed-by-lower-house

3. The Australian BOM knocks back the FOI requests for the NZ NIWA review

Richard Treadgold has posted a couple of interesting articles: What are the Aussies hiding? and No, really – what are they hiding?
h/ t Mike J

Update #1 Point 2 — Here is the wording on the legislation on carbon pricing.

Thanks to Linda M:

34 REDUCING CARBON POLLUTION
The order of the day having been read for the resumption of the debate on the motion of Mr S. P. Jones—That this House:

  1. agrees that putting a price on carbon is an essential step in reducing carbon pollution and transforming our economy to achieve a clean energy future;
  2. notes that in many manufacturing regions in Australia, business, unions, government and community organisations are already working to develop green jobs and clean energy production processes; and
  3. agrees that governments must work with the manufacturing industry and communities to assist their transformation to meet the challenge of a carbon constrained future—

Debate resumed.

Question—That the motion be agreed to—put.

And so it was resolved in the affirmative.

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News thread May 15 and 500th Post!, 1.0 out of 10 based on 1 rating

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55 comments to News thread May 15 and 500th Post!

  • #
    cohenite

    Mild warmist Lomborg did a comprehensive cost/benefit analysis of the various measures to ‘solve AGW in his book Cool It; on page 41, Figure 11 shows that by spending no money at all on ‘solving’ AGW the costs are $1trillion and the benefits are $2trillion.

    That’s right there are benfits to a warming world, what a novel idea.

    Spending money to keep a temperature increase to just 1.5C, the most stringent, stop all CO2 emissions immediately option would have benefits of $10 trillion and cost $84 trillion.

    This is assuming AGW is real.

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  • #
    Iren

    Three sources in the party confirmed this week that the Greens have now given up hope of persuading Labor to move much beyond its minimum commitment of a 5 per cent cut in emissions over the next decade.

    This is actually very bad news. It means that the Greens are getting realistic and will let ANY form of carbon tax through, just to get the foot in the door and then plan to ramp it up later. It means that we are far more likely to end up with a carbon tax, like it or not.

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  • #
    Damian Allen

    Greenpeace fall leads to greepeace fall….

    http://www.twawki.com/?p=11655

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  • #
    Damian Allen

    OT but worth reading..

    The war against Australians by the federal gillard government”……..

    http://www.twawki.com/?p=11660

    There must be an election ASAP so that Australians can rid ourselves of these traitors !

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  • #
    Damian Allen

    UN Agenda 21 & Maurice Strong:-

    http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=18097

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  • #
    Damian Allen

    Some fascinating links to the Global Cooling SCARE of the 1970′s…..

    1970′s Predictions of the Climate specialists..P Erlich, EPIC Fail!!!

    http://justgroundsonline.com/forum/topics/1970s-predictions-of-the

    Evidence About The 1970s Global Cooling Consensus Keeps Piling Up

    http://omniclimate.wordpress.com/2010/06/10/evidence-about-the-1970s-global-cooling-consensus-keeps-piling-up/

    THE COOLING WORLD – newsweek1975globalcooli.jpg (JPEG Image, 767×1024 pixels)

    http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3791/newsweek1975globalcooli.jpg

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  • #
    Damian Allen

    OT but worth a read.

    It won’t then just be airfares that increase if this Treasonous Carbon DIOXIDE (Plant Food) Tax is introduced …..

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/it_wont_then_just_be_airfares/

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  • #
    Bulldust

    O….M….G

    Jo is so going to have a field day with this latest claptrap posted in The Australian in response to her health funding & climate change article:

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/climate-action-has-clear-public-health-dividend/story-e6frgd0x-1226055577475

    Here is a paragraph to demonstrate how appalling the piece is:

    Climate change is already responsible for the deaths of more than 300,000 people each year. Five million more deaths are expected during the next decade if no effective action is taken to reduce climate risk. The direct health effects of climate change include deaths, injury and hospitalisation associated with increasingly frequent and intense bushfires, cyclones, storms, floods and heatwaves.

    Indirect effects include increases in infectious and vector-borne diseases, worsening chronic illness and health risks from poor water quality and food insecurity.

    This person has travelled beyond the realm of advocacy to pure lunacy… poor chicken…

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  • #
    Bulldust

    Ahhh just researched the author of that rubbish:

    Fiona Armstrong is president of the Climate and Health Alliance.
    http://www.caha.org.au

    I checked out the web site and found the Governance page at:

    http://caha.org.au/about/governance/

    Here are some of the names:

    Expert Advisory Committee

    CAHA’s expert advisory committee includes:

    Associate Professor Erica Bell, University Department of Rural Health, University of Tasmania
    Professor David Karoly, Federation Fellow in the School of Earth Sciences, University of Melbourne
    Professor Stephan Lewandowsky, School of Psychology, University of Western Australia
    Dr Peter Tait, RACGP General Practitioner of the Year 2007, Alice Springs
    Associate Professor Jane Carthey, Director, Centre for Health Assets Australasia, University of NSW
    Associate Professor Grant Blashki, Nossal Institute for Global Health
    Professor Anthony Capon, National Centre for Epidemiology and Population Health, Australian National University
    Professor Simon Chapman, Professor of Public Health, University of Sydney.

    As Charlie Sheen would say… “THERE IT IS!”

    See some familiar names in that list??

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  • #
    Damian Allen

    OT but a must read !

    BETRAYAL !!!!!!!!!!!

    Under the cover of darkness the Parliament Lower House votes on carbon pricing Independents Wilkie, Oakeshott & Windsor backed the motion. The coalition & Bob Katter voted against the motion that passed 74 votes to 72. NOW WE KNOW WHERE THEY STAND!!!!!!

    http://s.ytimg.com/yt/swfbin/watch_as3-vflRkb4Mi.swf

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8248531/carbon-price-backed-by-lower-house

    This carbon Dioxide(Plant Food) Tax based on the FRAUD of global warming MUST be stopped !!!

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  • #
    val majkus

    The stupid efforts of Government-just who are these people representing?
    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8248531/carbon-price-backed-by-lower-house

    The Gillard government’s bid to introduce a carbon tax has been boosted with the lower house of parliament backing the idea of a carbon price.

    Labor MP Stephen Jones MP moved a motion calling on the House of Representatives to acknowledge a carbon price as an “essential step in reducing carbon pollution”.

    It also noted the efforts already under way by government and business in developing green jobs.

    Independents Andrew Wilkie, Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor and Australian Greens MP Adam Bandt, backed the motion that passed the lower house on Thursday night.

    The coalition and independent Bob Katter voted against the motion that passed 74 votes to 72.

    WA independent Tony Crook was absent from the vote, but has previously indicated he is open to supporting the carbon tax that Labor wants in place by mid 2012.

    The government needs the support of at least four crossbenchers to get the measure through the lower house of parliament.

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  • #
    Bulldust

    There is potentially a huge story brewing … the CERN CLOUD experiment has been obtaining data and there are hints that it may be supportive of Svensmark’s theory (unless I am misinterpretting the video interview). Story at WUWT:

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/05/14/update-on-the-cern-cloud-experiment/

    Watch the 7 minute video with Jasper Kirkby. It may be a few months before we see any publication of the results, and I expect the warmista trolls will be firing the slime canon to try and discredit the CLOUD team. Good luck with that…

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  • #
    Climate realist number9

    Solid state electrolysers might be in the same category as the Horvarth hydrogen engine (1970′s Qld and BjelkePetersen) and cold fusion – in the end there might be flaws in the claims about them. Be very wary of those who claim to have exceptions to the laws of thermodynamics. Physical laws have certainly been seen to break down in subatomic and cosmic extremes – it is hard to accept that the atmospheric arrangements of a simple planet orbiting an ordinary sun in a black body universe is in that category just now. Argue what you may, entropy is what it is.

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  • #

    Hi All,

    Offtopic, but deserves to be a headline on its own.

    Has everyone seen the guest posting on ‘The Air Vent’ by Pat Frank:
    http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2011/05/08/delta-t/

    Shows the base GISS dataset has been manipulated over time to support the current agenda.
    No suprise to some, shocking to others! :)

    Cheers,
    Josh

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  • #
    Jaymez

    I am sick of what alarmists like Fiona Armstrong get away with while claiming they have science on their side. First she links bushfires and floods with Climate Change without presenting any evidence, never mind actual proof. She of course assumes the link between humans and climate change, without any evidence or proof. I have seen the dire predictions she made in other alarmists propaganda which come from unsubstantiated advocacy papers. Her claims belong with the UN Environment Program’s prediction of 50 million climate refugees by 2010.

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  • #
    Neville

    Lomborg shows in “Cool It” on pages 17 and 18 that the number of excess Cold deaths per year dwawfs the number of excess heat deaths.

    In fact there is a ratio of more than 7 to 1, so if the temp was increased by 1c + there would be a saving of human lives.

    Therefore if AGW was true there is a net benifit for lives saved.

    The pig ignorance shown by Armstrong is beyond belief and Lomborg gives the actual numbers from various cities around the world to prove his case.

    In Europe the estimated deaths from excess heat is 200,000 per year and deaths from excess cold is 1,480,000 or more than 7 times.

    Colder is a killer and warmer is a saviour.

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  • #
    AndyG55

    300,000 per year. I wonder if she can name even ONE !!

    I think someone should demand proof of the number and proof that climate change was the cause in each case.

    I call “total BS” !!!!

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  • #

    Thanks Neville, all links and references on the topic gratefully received.

    Jo

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  • #
    NikFromNYC

    This is my latest payload, tight and nasty, take no prisoners harsh, but at least it looks pretty, I hope. It drives cultist alarmists absolutely nuts if I post it in the comments sections of new articles. Oh! The vitriolic drivel they spew. The latest one is the astronauts. I made that last night, or sort of this morning and now it’s morning again?!

    I present The Thinking Man’s Quick Guide to Global Warming:

    Astronauts: http://oi52.tinypic.com/vwzel5.jpg
    Tides: http://oi56.tinypic.com/9u5jis.jpg
    Thermometers: http://oi51.tinypic.com/34qjmgn.jpg
    Ice: http://oi52.tinypic.com/2upvlvm.jpg
    Earth: http://i49.tinypic.com/2mpg0tz.jpg
    Psychopaths: http://oi51.tinypic.com/2po8tas.jpg
    Thinker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n92YenWfz0Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player%20

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  • #

    The claim that “Climate change is already responsible for the deaths of more than 300,000 people each year” comes from a report by the Global Humanitarian Forum, led by Kofi Annan..see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6387208.ece
    report available here: http://www.ghf-ge.org/human-impact-report.pdf

    The figures do not come from peer reviewed papers but are manufactured through manipulation of information from insurer Munich Re and the WHO. See page 10-11 to see how the numbers are made up. It’s Post modern science at its best!

    The study has been reviewed by leading experts including Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. (I guess he looked at it in between writing his racy novel)

    On 31 March 2010 the Global Humanitarian Forum ceased its activity (see http://www.ghf-ge.org/)
    In 2010, the Global Humanitarian Forum has shut down for lack of funds. The organization was unable to raise enough cash to stay afloat because of the global economic crisis. On 31 March 2010 the Swiss Federal Department of Foreign Affairs announced that the Forum was over-indebted and obliged to cease its activity.

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  • #

    Page 11 of “The human impact of climate change – Already serious today”. source of rubbery figures used by Fiona Armstrong.

    “The 40 percent proportion is based on an analysis of data provided by Munich Re on the past trend
    of weather-related disasters, as compared to geophysical (i.e. non climate change related) disasters
    over time.It compares well to a 2009 scientific estimate of the attribution of climate change to
    droughts. It is assumed that the 40 percent increase due to climate change based on frequency
    of disasters can be applied as an approximation for the number of people seriously affected and
    deaths. The 4 percent proportion is based on a study by WHO which looks at health outcomes from
    gradual environmental degradation due to climate change.”

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  • #

    One of the references used to help support the derivation of the figure of 300,000 deaths per annum comes from work by Dr Peter Baines. Page 11…”It compares well to a 2009 scientific estimate of the attribution of climate change to droughts 11.”

    The number 11 refers to the following reference:

    11. Dr. Baines from the University of Melbourne estimates that 37% of drought is caused by climate change in 6 regions of the world. Baines, P. (2009): “The attribution of causes of current decadal droughts.” University of Melbourne and Fogarty, D. (2009): “Global warming 37 pct to blame for droughts-scientist.” Reuters, March 25. http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSSP141565. ”

    A working link is : http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/03/25/us-climate-warming-idUSTRE52O3EJ20090325

    Fogarty D. is David Fogarty, Reuters Climate Change Correspondent, Asia. It appears the study was presented as a conference paper but never formally published in a peer reviewed journal. What appears to be the conference paper slides can be viewed at http://quest.bris.ac.uk/workshops/ASM_09/talks/Baines_ASM09.pdf

    This includes reference that the work was submitted to the Journal of Climate. Search of the Journal of Climate for “peter baines” yields no results post 2007. One must assume this paper was rejected by the Journal of climate. I sent an email to Dr Baines to clarify what happened to it.

    List of publications by Baines is available from: http://www.findanexpert.unimelb.edu.au/researcher/person24977.html

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  • #
    Damian Allen

    The Port Macquarie Anti Carbon Dioxide (Plant Food) Tax Rally was great !

    I have almost lost my voice from shouting !

    Lots of photographs taken by people and the media.

    We were up near the front.

    My sister and I both had NO CARBON TAX POSTERS held up.

    The speakers were excellent:-

    David Archibald

    Warren Truss

    Barnaby Joyce

    Etc etc

    Guess what?

    No oakSHIT !

    Too gutless to face real Australians !

    PS There were around 3000 attendees !!!!

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  • #
    Neville

    A video shot in Canberra earlier this year featuring Lomborg talking about heat and cold deaths etc at about 5 mins 10 secs.

    Much the same as his book with same graphs/charts and numbers.
    Very interesting take on UHIE in large cities and how it can be overcome cheaply.

    This number one video plus number 2 seems to follow his book and explodes a lot of the myths about CAGW.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrNB2FZnzeQ&feature=related

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  • #

    Congrats on 500, Jo.

    So, does this mean you guys are getting a “carbon tax” in defiance of all logic?

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  • #

    Damien, fabulous news about the rally. 3000! Spectacular :-)

    Marc — thanks for the links and succinct summary. Perfect.

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  • #
    Bulldust

    I just want to point out to anyone who thinks that a 5% cut in CO2 emissions isn’t a big deal that this number is IN FACT fictitious. It is typical of the double talk and misdirection used by politicians.

    Were there no move to cut CO2 emissions by 2020 they would increase under a business-as-usual scenario … probably by something of the order of 20%. Therefore a 5% cut based on 2010 (or whatever year) emission levels is a relative cut of 25%. As in finance you do not compare dollars of today to those received in 10 years … so you should not compare emissions levels today to what they would be in 10 years, as if today is somehow a magical, and perfect, benchmark.

    As usual the politicians vastly understate the size of any detrimental impact (to your wallet). The longer an ETS/tax is in place, the greater the divergence between the busines-as-usual scenario that would have prevailed versus the new imposed regime. As a consequence, and with increasing population pressures to consume more energy, any CO2 price under an ETS would continue to rise for the foreseeable future. It is a tax with no upside limit until the Aussie economy keels over much like the basket case that is most of Europe.

    I have no doubt that mankind will move to some form of “clean” energy at some stage in the future … perhaps solar … I hope fusion, but it is inevitanle that our ingenious species will come up with better technologies. One thing is for sure … impeding our economy with taxes that achieve nothing will not expedite our rate of technological progress. The tax as advertised to date, can only serve to impede our economy and hence technological progress.

    This is why I think Tony Abbott’s comment nailed it so well a few weeks ago when he said that expecting the carbon tax to accelerate green energy technology development was like expecting a tax on typewriters to accelerate the advent of the internet.

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  • #
    Ross

    It looks like “the masses” are rising elsewhere as well—first the Irish voted out the Greens that were in Parliament , now alot of the Finns have had enough … from a comment on WUWT

    “The Finns are getting ready to throw the bums out.

    In the recent elections, the True Finns party (Perussuomalaiset) rose from almost nothingness to 19% of the vote and won 39 seats in our 200 seat parliament on a platform promising a declaration of independence from the EU and no increasing the price of energy on the basis of dodgy climate science.

    The Establishment did all it could to vilify them as isolationists, xenohbes and rasists, but it backfired. “

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  • #
    pat

    it’s about money, money, money. the only mentions in here of “climate” is in relation to Departments or official Titles. needless to say, warming of any kind gets no mention at all.
    have u noticed how the MSM is now pushing the Carbon Tax vs the ETS meme as if. one way or another, we’ll have one or both no matter what?

    16 May: Australan: EXCLUSIVE Annabel Hepworth and Sid Maher: Carbon tax to hurt more than ETS, warns energy sector
    Trade Minister Craig Emerson said that if Australia failed to put a price on carbon, penalties such as border tax adjustments could be slapped on Australian industries – and these could be consistent with World Trade Organisation rules, depending on their design.
    Seizing on revelations that Qantas Airways would be forced to pay a tax on its carbon emissions by the European Union because Australia did not have a carbon price, Dr Emerson said similar moves would “ramp up in the absence of a carbon price” to hit other exporters…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/carbon-tax-to-hurt-more-than-ets-warns-energy-sector/story-fn59niix-1226056396835

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  • #
    val majkus

    some photos of the Oakshotte anti carbon dioxide rally
    he was invited but ‘declined’
    http://www.portnews.com.au/multimedia/23594/248037/anti-carbon-tax-rally-in-port-macquarie.aspx?Start=10&page=1

    article here:
    http://www.portnews.com.au/
    gotta love Barnaby
    If taxes made the world colder, the world would be an ice box, ” said Mr Joyce

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  • #
  • #
    janama

    Worse, the U.N. didn’t even do the report themselves. They farmed it out:

    The research was carried out by Dalberg Global Advisers, a consultancy firm, who collated all existing statistics on the human impacts of climate change. The report acknowledges a “significant margin of error” in its estimates.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/30/u-n-s-global-warming300000-deaths-a-year-report-kofi-implies-close-enough-for-government-work/

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  • #
    Paul Matters

    Just wanted to post a big thank you Jo for publicising the Illawarra Against Carbon Tax public lecture of Dr Bob Carter here in Port Kembla last week. The lecture was held on one of the coldest May nights in living memory at the Port Kembla Returned Serviceman’s Club. IACT deliberately held the lecture in the labor heartland in the shadow of the steelworks and not at the university. We received great support from the local community ( e.g the power point screen was loaned to us by the local Macedonian Welfare Association). Dr Carter spoke to an audience that was mainly not tertiary educated, some were from non-English speaking backgrounds and for all of us this was the first opportunity we had to hear from a scientist not peddling the CAGW dogma. Dr Carter’s lecture was brilliant. The feedback from those attending (we would have liked more but it was our first hit out) has been extraordinary. His lecture not only enlightened but it has energised many of those who attended. Some of the steelworkers who attended have since contacted us and they are spreading the word on the job about how outstanding was Dr. Carter’s explaination of the carbon dioxide and global warming issue. IACT will respond formally to you and Dr Carter after our meeting next week.
    In regard to the motion for the carbon dioxide tax being moved in the parliament by Stephen Jones Member for Throsby (he is our local member)nothing could have been calculated to infuriate people in the elctorate. Jones hasnt even met with steelworkers to get their opinions and feelings about the tax. Perhaps his factional boss Albanese thought it might have been a cute move to get the local MP from the steelmaking region to move the motion. They will find out how cute it was at the next election. Many people in Throsby are tired of the issue. They just want a vote on it. And that vote cant come soon enough.
    And the news from Bluescope today is grim.
    http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/news/local/news/general/bluescope-steel-to-slash-workforce/2163589.aspx
    And will the ALP/Greens coalition give steel an exemption from this industry destruction tax? That is about as likely as Julia and Tim tying the knot at St Pat’s here in Port.

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  • #
    Helen Armstrong

    Dr’s Idso and Idso in the study ‘Carbon Dioxide and the Earth’s Future: Pursuing the Prudent Path analysed the ‘heat causes death’ concept from an epidemiological angle. They found that deaths did occur – from people who were going to die anyhow – that is, there was a spike of deaths in a heat wave then a downward spike immediately after. Overall they cite evidence from around the world including Australia, that warmer weather means fewer deaths than does colder weather. All real data.

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  • #
    debbie

    The MSM reported that only about 1000 attended the rally in Newcastle.
    That’s rather different to 3000!
    If we wanted to model that we would have to create a mean figure and then extrapolate a graph in the computer to decide which figure fits best. Then we will need to ask for more funds to test that theory against reality but because we have such a huge range of variables we can’t really decide which would be the correct figure anyway. We could probably add in some things like evidence from traffic cams and public transport but some of those people could have been off to visit their grandmother so we need to add in some other controls in the model there so that we account for that. We also need to recognise that the actual time the numbers were counted would have some relevance because if we counted too early or too late then that would interfere with the result as well. Oh…that would mean another model so we can prove the exact right time we should make the count.
    So let’s just say that there were a lot of angry people there and save the money!
    Possibly somewhere between 1000 and 3000?
    That number is significant at either end of the scale and anything in between.
    Probably angry because our extremely expensive obsession with trying to prove that mankind is causing catastrophic climate change is all about working out how to tax the air we breathe anyway.
    I wonder if anyone measured the rise in CO2 production in that area? Must have been a lot!

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  • #
    Damian Allen

    “debbie” (36),
    First Point – There was no Anti Carbon Dioxide (Plant Food) Tax Rally held in Newcastle……..
    There WAS one held in Port Macquarie at the Town Green on Sunday 15/05/2011.

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  • #
    brc

    Well, I think the best way to clarify the ’300,000′ already dead is to ask for some names? Just 50 people who have died from climate change would be a good start.

    It’s a bit like the species extinction argument – it is all very good but when pushed to provide the names of just 5 species that have actually perished via ‘climate change’, it’s all ums and ers and shuffling of feet.

    Maybe the 300,000 that died did so in that mass migration of 50 million people that happened by last year?

    I have no doubt that the weather kills hundreds of thousands of people each year. But the solution to that is better structures, better warnings and better planning. None of which require an air tax.

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  • #
    debbie

    Oops, sorry,I meant Port Macquarie!

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  • #
    The Loaded Dog

    500 posts = 500 reasons to doubt Climate alarmism.

    Well done Jo, and thank YOU!

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  • #
    Manalive

    As note above by Jaymez, Fiona Armstrong like all her fellow travellers, neatly conflates three different and distinct ideas: climate change, human induced climate change and dangerous human induced climate change — “climate change” is used 8 times in the article.
    Climate change has always caused human fatalities and always will.
    Having glided over the thorny question of the human contribution to climate change, Fiona goes on to a list of undocumented advantages of “climate action” in the manner of a high school debate.
    Nothing demonstrates the evasiveness (or is it hypocrisy and callousness?) of the CAGW crowd better than Fiona’s closing argument that it’s poor people from developing nations who will be disproportionately affected by ‘climate change’, when it is precisely their ‘cure’ which will fall heaviest on the poor in both Australia and of course developing countries.

    Fiona Armstrong, convenor and spokesperson for The Climate and Health Alliance (CAHA) is a Melbourne-based journalist, public policy analyst, journalist and political commentator. She was educated at  Macquarie University (Master in Politics and Public Policy), University of Queensland (Post-graduate Diploma in Journalism), University of Southern Queensland (Bachelor of Nursing).
    The CAHA appears to represent another group of self-interested busybodies; the expert advisory committee includes some familiar names viz. Professor David Karoly and Professor Stephan Lewandowsky.

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    val majkus

    for those of us who would like to make a difference here’s an idea

    with a patron like Allan Jones and Andrew Bolt named in the advisers this looks like a great way to get some media coverage for climate sceptics (Jo and David Evans are included in the advisers

    http://www.galileomovement.com.au/who_we_are.php
    New movement started:
    Purpose and Aims of the Galileo Movement:
    by exposing misrepresentations
    pushing a ‘price on carbon dioxide’
    The Galileo Movement seeks to protect Australians and our future in five areas:
    - Protect freedom – personal choice and national sovereignty;
    - Protect the environment;
    - Protect science and restore scientific integrity;
    - Protect our economic security;
    - Protect people’s emotional health by ending Government and activists’ constant destructive bombardment of fear and guilt on our kids and communities.

    And their home page:

    http://www.galileomovement.com.au/galileo_movement.php

    A most impressive list of advisers

    To my knowledge there is no other site that exposes the UN IPCC succinctly the way our site does with hard numbers. And combines that with hard facts on CO2 and climate. And government corruption and hypocrisy.

    It’s time we put all the evidence to the public and pollies

    this site proposes to get media coverage and I would highly recommend donors to its site

    Media coverage is what’s needed for sceptics

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    Matt b

    Damian in #31 and #34.

    It seems you have to say it twice in this thread alone!

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    Chris Thixton

    From over here in NZ, wake up Aus, you are being gang raped. If you fall so will we and I’m not the violent sort.

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    AndyG55

    MattB #43.

    For you, probably a dozen times……. to get through your thick skull !!

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    AndyG55

    val majkus #42

    Thanks for that link. Although I am a self funded PhD student, I can offer the use of a PA system to any anti-carbon dioxide rallies in Newcastle (or within a reasonable distance).

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    AndyG55

    The main reason for deaths in very hot or very cold weather is because people cannot afford the electricity for cooling or heating.

    The effect of increased charges bought about by unreliable, inefficient, expensive “green” power supply is, of course, more deaths, no matter which way the temperature goes!

    The adoption of these unreliable, inefficient, expensive energy systems will undoubtedly cause more deaths, which will be almost certainly be blamed on global warming…..

    where they should actually be blamed on global warming hysteria !!

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    AndyG55

    ps.. I pity those living in the UK, its going to get really tough to even exist over there.. climate refugees , anyone ??

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    AndyG55

    I mean, climate HYSTERIA refugees…

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    val majkus

    It’s time: an opportunity to support true scientists presenting real-world climate science to inform the public.

    http://www.galileomovement.com.au

    7:10am Tuesday morning, May 17th, and Wednesday, May 18th tune into radio 2GB, Sydney: http://www.2gb.com

    16 May, 2011
    Hi,
    We’re delighted to be able to introduce you to the web site of the newly-formed Galileo Movement (www.galileomovement.com.au). The principal aim of this Movement is to first win the battle against the currently threatened tax on carbon dioxide and then to win the war against any drive for ever putting a price on it.
    From recent public polls it is obvious that the majority of Australians are opposed to this tax and we believe you are probably part of that majority.
    Our efforts are non-political as there are politicians in all parties who need to be convinced of the futility of taxing a beneficial trace gas in the atmosphere. So many people still think that carbon dioxide is a harmful pollutant; we need your help to educate these people that this is not so! We have strong connections to excellent scientific and other advisers worldwide. We’re ready.
    How can you help? Well, on the web site there is a printable flyer which you can print and distribute into letter boxes, at bus stops, shopping centres and railway stations; it is at http://www.galileomovement.com.au/threat_freedom.php#O and click on “flyer”.
    More importantly, we intend to run a major, national, professionally-managed campaign to gain access to significant members of the mass media (print journalists, radio and TV personalities) who need to understand that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has been spreading truly false information. This campaign will be costly, so we are appealing to you and all like-minded people to make a contribution towards this effort. You will note from our web site that virtually all our efforts are voluntary; there are some minor costs in maintaining formal financial records and in producing and maintaining the web site. Once we have won the war, any remaining funds are destined to go to the Royal Flying Doctor Service.
    Please distribute this email widely to make people aware of http://www.galileomovement.com.au as this may be our last opportunity to unite to defeat this negative, economic and socially life-changing legislation. It is time to act: “The triumph of evil requires only for good men (and women) to do nothing”.
    Thank you,

    John Smeed, Director
    Case Smit, Director
    Malcolm Roberts, Project Manager
    P.S. Our apologies if you receive more than one copy of this email.
    P.P.S. Please let us have your suggestions for enhancing our web site.
    P.P.P.S. Listen to Australia’s most influential radio personality Alan Jones of Radio 2GB (www.2gb.com), and Patron of the Galileo Movement, who will be interviewing distinguished American meteorologist Professor Lindzen at 7:10am Tuesday (May 17th) and at 7:10am on Wednesday, The Galileo Movement’s voluntary Project Manager, Malcolm Roberts

    Malcolm Roberts
    BE (Hons), MBA (Chicago)
    Fellow AICD, MAIM, MAusIMM, MAME (USA), MIMM (UK), Fellow ASQ (USA, Aust)

    http://www.conscious.com.au

    My personal declaration of interests is at:
    http://www.conscious.com.au/__documents/additional%20material/Personal%20declaration%20of%20interests.pdf
    (manually go to http://www.conscious.com.au and look for ‘Summaries’ and then click on ‘Aims, background and declaration of interests …’)

    For care to be effective, care needs to be informed

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    val majkus

    sorry should have made the above comment clear
    That’s a copy of an e mail I received
    But I wholly endorse the sentiments, any site that can us media coverage is to be wholly endorsed in my view

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    Mike Jowsey

    Thanks for the link Val – looks like an excellent site

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    Mark D.

    NikFromNYC @ 19

    Great links thanks!

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    Here’s part of a reply from Peter Baines regarding the study used to support some decidedly dodgie figures supporting 300,000 climate deaths a year.

    “That “Journal of Climate” paper as such didn’t get up. I haven’t yet resubmitted it, but intend to (sometime soon).”

    So this claim remains unsupported by the peer reviewed literature.

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