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Cold times means more death, war, rebellion, drought and flood in China

Tomb of Hong Quan Fu. Photo Iflwlou拍攝

It seems a warmer climate might be bad, but a colder one is deadly.

Once upon a time, people thought that overpopulation triggered crashes, but in this study by Lee and Zhang the hard numbers suggest instead that it was climate, and of course, it’s not the warmer kind of climate that causes the problems but the colder kind.

Malthusian cycles of population boom and bust aren’t the drivers here (though presumably having a large population means there is little buffer when the deadly cold spells hit).

From NIPCCCold Periods caused population crashes in China over the last millenium

…there were 5 major population contractions in China between 1000 CE and 1911, and all of them occurred in periods with a cold climate, when mortality crises triggered population collapses. [Abstract]

How much fun can you have in a long frost? Almost every kind of uprising, pain or plague.

In one population crash, the losses were as high as 49% of the peak. In the face of a 50:50 death rate, “perspective” doesn’t seem like quite the right word.

Data on Chinese history, including temperature, wars and rebellions, epidemics, famines, and population for the past millennium were examined. Over the study interval of 911 years, it was found that nomad migrations, rebellions, wars, epidemics, floods, and droughts were all higher in cold periods. All of these factors tended to act to disrupt population growth or cause mortality. Overall, 5 of 6 population contractions, with losses of 11.4 to 49.4% of peak population, were associated with a cooling climate. The 6th cool period evinced a great reduction in growth rate during a cool phase, but not a collapse. None of the population contractions were associated with a warming climate. (My emphasis)

In an earlier paper Zhang showed that colder weather was linked to wars, probably due to less food.

In analyzing the linkages they found to exist among these different factors, the international (Chinese, French, German, Norwegian) team of researchers concluded that “food production during the last two millennia has been more unstable during cooler periods, resulting in more social conflicts,” while specifically noting that “cooling shows direct positive association with the frequency of external aggression war to the Chinese dynasties mostly from the northern pastoral nomadic societies, and indirect positive association with the frequency of internal war within the Chinese dynasties through drought and locust plagues,” which have typically been more pronounced during cooler as opposed to warmer times.

What luxury it is to argue over esoteric theories instead of wondering how far we can eek out that last kilogram of mouldy rice, tree bark of grass soup?

Anna Frodesiak

A Longji terrace in Longsheng county, Guilin, China. Photo: Anna Frodesiak

Though for all the devastation wrought by climate, the worst Chinese famine, at least in sheer numbers, was not caused by climate, but by government.

References

Lee, H.F. and Zhang, D.D. 2010. Changes in climate and secular population cycles in China, 1000 CE to 1911. Climate Research 42: 235-246.

Zhang, Z., Tian, H., Cazelles, B., Kausrud, K.L., Brauning, A. Guo, F. and Stenseth, N.C. 2010. Periodic climate cooling enhanced natural disasters and wars in China during AD 10-1900. Proceedings of the Royal Society B 277: 10.1098/rspb.2010.0890.

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108 comments to Cold times means more death, war, rebellion, drought and flood in China

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    I thought I knew about Mao’s atrocities. But I was wrong. The review of Becker’s book is a real eye opener.

    I have never been able to figure out how some can work their way into the position where they think they’re infallible gods and every problem is because the people don’t do things their way. But we have our own petty little “Maos” to deal with, do we not?

    As I’m starting into another cold and unusual winter I have to keep reminding myself that it’s just weather, not climate. But now the temptation to look over my shoulder to see what’s creeping up on me is almost irresistible. Is it really just weather or is it climate? Only history can tell.

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  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    Roy Hogue: #1

    It is always climate. Weather is just that little bit of the climate that can be predicted locally in sufficient time to allow farmers to get their animals into the barn.

    Weather does not exist independent of the climate. Ergo, climate cannot exist independent of the weather.

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  • #
    Cookster

    All, sorry OT again but Mike Seketee has just posted an article in the Australian. (linked below) I hope they allow comments to be posted as it should not go unchallenged. It is not the first time Mike has written this rubbish and he needs to be put back in his place! In my opinion this is worse than Pitmans effort yesterday as it smacks of arrogance!

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/global-weather-disasters-a-sign-the-heat-is-on/story-e6frg6zo-1225983256858

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  • #

    Unbelievable as it sounds, I’ve been told on at least two seperate occasions by people actually living in China, that the average Chinese dwelling has no heating.

    Pointman

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Rereke @2,

    When the warmers complain that there is more violent weather because the planet is warming (not true of course) we tell them it’s just weather. So now that I’ve had a few colder than usual winters are these just within the normal variation in a period of relatively stable overall climate? Or do they signal the arrival of the next ice age (a real climate change)? The official word is that warming coming out of the LIA stopped in 2001 (or earlier by some accounts). A slight cooling has taken place but nothing significant. So by our own arguments the climate has been stable since 2001.

    Keep in mind that the years 1970, 71 and if I remember correctly 72 also had colder than the usual winters here. We definitely did not go into an ice age then.

    So which is it?

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  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    pointman: #4

    … the average Chinese dwelling has no heating.

    Nor do they have adequate insulation.

    But we must remember that the Mongols lived on the steppes in tents, all the year round, and produced an army of warriors capable of overrunning a significant portion of what was then the civilised world.

    The Mongols are one of the races that we in the west collectively refer to as “Chinese”. They are very hardy folk.

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  • #
    Cookster

    The alarmists always like to remind us of the potential catastrophic impact of AGW. But most studies I have read including this one suggest potential impact of cooling is very much worse. It’s also good to point out the dangers of Totalitarian governments and how they can be very much worse to both humanity and the environment than anything the private sector or free markets can muster. It puzzles me why the Greens see more Government control over everything when this seems contradictory to their aims when judged on history?

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  • #
    Siliggy

    This video (part of a longer doco)contains interesting bits about the lead up to the little ice age and the troubles cooling caused. Note the “whip saw” eratic weather.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpZqAPmW6d0

    This is an interesting read with more extreme weather cause by cooling.
    From Shakespeare to Defoe: Malaria in England in the Little Ice Age
    http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol6no1/reiter.htm#11

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  • #
    elsie

    I recall reading somewhere that over the millennia China has had periods of drought and reliable rain. These periods have lasted a few generations each. Mainly, it seems to do with how much the monsoons behave. I read this in something favouring the AGW theory. But CO2 was not mentioned. BTW, I watched last night a doc’ about WW2. It stated that 1939/40 winter was the coldest recorded up to then in the 20th C and all the years of WW2 were well below normal for winters. Think Stalingrad. Yet, during that time every factory on earth was running 100% capacity 24/7/365. After 1945 all production fell and it took a whole generation before USA reached WW2 steel production figures again. The point is the exceptional increase in CO2 1930s to 1945 did not seem to affect climate one bit except to lower temperatures.

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  • #
    Curt

    Zhang et al extended their analysis to Europe and found basically the same thing — cold periods were horribly deadly. A good summary of their conclusions can be found in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in 2007. It can be found here:

    http://www.pnas.org/content/104/49/19214.full

    The thing that really surprised me was this was edited by Paul Ehrlich, no denialist.

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  • #
    Rereke Whakaaro

    Roy Hogue: #5

    Sometimes my off-the-cuff remarks get me into trouble – this is probably one such time. But here goes … and I emphasise, this is my opinion.

    Meteorology developed to meet the need for weather prediction (get your cows in the barn), and later became concerned with safety at sea and in the air.

    At its simplest level, it is based on observations of weather trends over the past few days or weeks, and then predicting what is likely to happen over the next few days or weeks. The more observations you have, within the observational timeframe, the better your predictive ability should be. It is a based on using short-term history to produce short-term forecasts.

    Unfortunately, the accuracy of the predictions is inversely proportional to length of time being forecasted. Random factors – what engineers call “noise” – are always present, and the significance of these increases as the predictive timeframe increases.

    One approach is to introduce random values, to represent the noise, and then run a series of forecasts to see what the spread of outcomes might be. You can then take the median result and call that a prediction, but often it would be no better than you would get without going through all the effort because the random factors tend to cancel each other out in complex ways.

    Another approach is to step back and look at the pattern of observations over a longer timeframe, and then look for previous occasions when that pattern developed, to see what happened next, and reframe your prediction within that historic narrative. This is what Piers Corbyn and Joe Bastardi do, as close as I can tell.

    Finally, weather is very important. Adverse weather kills, be it deep cold, high winds, inundating rain, drought, it is always weather.

    Climate on the other hand is one of the attributes that describe a place. It must be linked to a place to have meaning. It is an adjectival concept. Climate requires a spatial dimension.

    To turn that last statement around, “climate” is meaningless unless it has a spatial dimension.

    It is one characteristic that makes a place different from other places, and can be used (along with others) to compare places. For example, “The climate in Perth, Australia, is very similar to the climate you get in the Mediterranean, season by season”.

    Since climate is an amalgam of weather over some time period, for a defined location; it makes no sense to talk about a global climate, other than as an expression of an amalgam of all weather on the planet over some arbitrary time period.

    I guess we could compare the climate of earth with the climate of another planet, but for what point?

    We could also compare the climate “then”, with the climate “now”, but because climate is an amalgam over time, the concepts of “then” and “now” just become meaningless points on a continuum. Change the values of “then” and “now”, and by definition, you will get a different answer.

    Climate Science has stolen the concept of climate, and tried to make it a thing in and of itself.

    Climate Science has tried to turn climate into a noun. Some Greens would even have us capitalise the noun, and turn “Climate” into a deity.

    Climate Science, as I have said before, is a sub-branch of Political Science.

    Climate Science does not consider weather at all.

    Instead, it assumes a hypothetical flat earth, with a constant heat source (the sun), and a number of perfectly mixed gasses, with various resonant frequencies, and then attempts to model changes in temperature on the basis of radiative forcing, and do the whole thing from first principles.

    This, in and of itself, is no bad thing. Modelling in this way can be very useful for identifying the types of things that are missing from the model (and those things that have little or no impact). These models are good at telling you that there is stuff you don’t know.

    But we already know that there is stuff that we don’t know, so why are we bothering to try and use these models to predict the future? Because of Political Science, that’s why.

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  • #
    janama

    Pointman@4

    They don’t have specific heating but all houses have stoves where they cook, usually using coal. When I was in Beijing in 91 the whole city smelt of coal burning (and garlic ) and the pollution was as you would expect. It was my ambition to see the stars of the northern hemisphere, no such luck.

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  • #
    wendy

    “Cookster” (3), you you happen to know what the email address for this “Mike Seketee” is?

    I would dealy love to send him some “INFORMATION”………….

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  • #
    Cookster

    Wendy, no I don’t know Mike’s email address but you can post replies to the article and hope to get it past the moderators, i.e. try to tone it down a bit. Even if it doesn’t get posted perhaps Mike will still get to read it? Good luck.

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Rereke,

    Peace! :-)

    Merriam-Webster Online defines climate:

    1 : a region of the earth having specified climatic conditions

    2a : the average course or condition of the weather at a place usually over a period of years as exhibited by temperature, wind velocity, and precipitation

    2b is irrelevant, having to do with indoor climate as in climate-controlled environment.

    This is kind of ambiguous in that you can look at it and arrive at somewhat different understandings about what climate is. For instance, over how many years?

    You aren’t in any trouble. I just wanted to see what your response would be. And as always you’re a sharp guy and I wouldn’t want to cross swords with you with anything serious at stake. :-)

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  • #

    @Janama. Hello. It’s always good to get the story from people who’ve actually been there. My background, in an academic sense, made me quite skeptical of the value of modelling a complex system like the climate. Developing nations (and I include China in that grouping), cannot afford fashionable delusions like AGW. They need to power up and while they may occasionally stroke occidental sensibilities, their priorities are painfully clear to themselves.

    http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/cancun-and-the-chinese-perspective-on-it/

    Pointman

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  • #
    Bulldust

    Cookster @ 3:

    I just read that crock of excrement and posted the following, but I doubt they are taking comments:

    The quotes in this article show a lack of understanding of the most fundamental pricipal of the difference between weather and climate. Phenomena such as floods, cyclones, droughts, hurricanes etc… they are regionalised weather effects.

    Climate has to do with long-term fluctuations in variables such as temperature and atmospheric chemical composition. That is a completely different concept.

    To use one (i.e. weather) as evidence of the other (i.e. climate), and I am trying my damndest to be polite, shows ignorance of the science. For a university professor to try and draw a parallel between the two… embarrassing. The fact that the same chap is the lead author in the 2007 IPCC report… I rest my case.

    I sometimes wonder whether The Oz is posting stuff like this to deliberately discredit the science. I mean seriously… this guy is trying to connect weather events and long-term climate change… it is embarrassing beyoud belief. Especially when a lay person such as myself can drive through the holes in the piece without exercising a single neuron.

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  • #
    MadJak

    Jo,

    There’s one more problem that would occur in the event of a global cooldown. The resulting corrosion of the scientific community who bet on black.

    I do wonder how many advisors to the dynasties of china were disposed of for not adequately predicting the colder climate. I wonder if they were called “Climate scientists” back then too. I guess the incas advisors might have saved their necks by coming up with the idea of sacrificing other peoples children to the gods when the inverse happened.

    The average joe bloggs (who still thinks the mainstream medias idea of news is informative) will take a long time to trust another word coming from scientists -even on topics where they may actually be correct.

    Honestly, I think this is going to be one of the biggest problems. Having said that, I am enjoying the show watching the loons infighting and ripping each other apart.

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  • #
    janama

    BTW – Naomi Oreskes – is the guest on today’s Science Show at 12pm.

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  • #
    Bulldust

    I have fallen foul of using the word climate in the sense that the AGW types use it, but I doubt you will get much traction explaining tha they use the word incorrectly anywhere outside skeptical circles. It is an uphill battle against ignorance, propaganda and dogma. It’s like trying to get people to stop using the word denier.

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  • #
    Bulldust

    Ahhh good ole Gavin Schmidt is in it for the love of the science I presume… nothing to do with the money and ego boost:

    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/01/reflections-on-funding-panels/

    At least he is admitting that he has played a part in many panels which decide which proposals get funded. Read into that what you may… I am sure he is completely unbiased /cough… did he ever suggest funding for a skeptic I wonder? Who am I kidding…

    00

  • #

    Mike Steketee’s article contains one glaring error of fact which needs pointing out.

    He claims “So far the increase since the mid-18th century of all greenhouse gases has been 38 per cent, including a 27.5 per cent rise from 1990 to 2009.”

    This may be true if you ignore WATER VAPOUR, by far the most prevalent greenhouse gas at roughly 20 times the concentration of all other greenhouse gases. If you include water vapour the increase is a much less alarming 1% or so.

    Yes, I’m aware that higher temperatures are assumed to result in more water vapour in the atmosphere although these “higher temperatures” don’t seem to be showing up in the top 700M of the oceans according to ARGO.
    Wasn’t it Penny Wong who claimed you had to look at OHC instead of temperatures?

    00

  • #
    janama

    Poor old Robyn Williams. On the Drum he tried to justify his interview with Tim Flannery as being about science and he threw mud at the those who ridiculed it.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/07/3108365.htm?site=thedrum

    The comments ran to 12 and the comments were closed!! If you didn’t get your comment in the 27 mins allowed you missed out. Fortunately Tony S managed to get a decent comment through the barriers.

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  • #
    pat

    not surprised the australian isn’t posting comments on steketee’s article.
    as for the qld floods – rockhampton’s hasn’t reached 1954 or 1918 levels, the southwest hasn’t reached last year’s march flooding levels, other flooded areas are only the highest for 70 years, yet worldwide these floods are being reported as utterly catastrophic, with friends overseas contacting me to see if i’m okay – and i live in SE Qld, which is nowhere near the flooded regions.
    oreskes to be on the “science” show! why not. it’s a closed circle of desperates and, after my experience with members of the public at the post office last week, i no longer believe the public is listening to them, much less believing the rubbish they spout.

    00

  • #
    janama

    here’s Tony S’s reply:

    tony s:

    07 Jan 2011 2:29:51pm

    Robyn, we expect science and scientific principles on a science show. To broadcast the concept of the earth developing consciousness in the future is ridiculous.

    To defend the broadcast in this article is absurd.

    Flannery implies that humans will develop a form of consciousness in the future that is better than the one we have now. And that this will translate to us better communicating to the planet.

    Flannery says “This planet, this Gaia, will have acquired a brain and a nervous system. That will make it act as a living animal.”

    This is best suited to philosophy or religion program.

    Where is the peer reviewed literature now?

    This makes your anti-science take down of Bob Carter even more ridiculous.

    Why weren’t you questioning Flannery’s false climate predictions.

    Flannery:”So even the rain that falls isnt actually going to fill our dams and our river systems.” Perth a ghost city?

    That would have been good honest accountable science journalism.

    “I have no opinions of my own”. No one believes you Robyn.

    The more bias you present in your selected interviews and unspoken questions, the less credibility for you and the ABC and science.

    This is the reason the scientific community is in panic over its falling status (ref national Press Club address this week).

    This is just further evidence that AGW is a religion.

    00

  • #
    Bernd Felsche

    (I posted the first part of this message to NoTricksZone a couple of days ago.)

    John Brignell’s NumberWatch for December makes me wonder if all that incompetence is coincidental.

    The government that is supposed to serve the people serves itself, and hands control of internal affairs to incompetent, foreign (EUSSR) bureaucrats who will not and cannot be held legally responsible.

    The self-nominated “ruling class” doesn’t care about the people; nor does it care that the people know that they don’t care. Because to them, the will of the people no longer matters.

    Meanwhile, few people thaw this coming:
    Winter flooding expected in Germany along with ‘almost T-shirt weather’ this weekend and the coming week, with another chill about a fortnight away. (According to AccuWeather)

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  • #
    Mark

    Ahhh… Germans love the smell of CO2 in the morning!

    http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2011/01/getting-there.html

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  • #
    handjive

    Way off topic but Andy Pitman talking about Flim Flannery:

    In a recent ABC Radio National Science Show interview with presenter Robyn Williams, Tim Flannery, a paleontologist, talked about Gaia.

    Communicating complex science is about accuracy and balance.
    Flannery is not a climate expert.
    One becomes an expert in a field by contributing, over years or decades, via peer-reviewed scientific literature.

    More for those interested. Enjoy. No need to go gaga over Gaia. Andy Pitman, January 7 2011, the Australian

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  • #
    Mark

    The pic might be nauseating so have the Stematil handy before clicking on the link.

    http://sppiblog.org/news/law-center-taxpayers-request-university-of-virginia-documents-pertaining-to-climate-scientist-michael-mann#more-3953

    Methinks a certain academic might be squirming a tad at the moment.

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  • #
    JPA Knowles

    “…eek out that last kilogram of mouldy rice…”

    In old England grains stored in damp conditions or grains still moist and under-ripe at harvest due to climatic cooling, would often develop Ergot fungus. When eaten this caused hallucinations and a burning sensation on the skin and extreme poisoning caused convulsions and death.

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  • #

    [...] the reasons for the “Keynesian avalanche“. War Links from Michael Warby. Jo Nova on the danger of  cold climate changes. The Two Cultures. Fascinating slides, not sure what they mean! Steve Jobs (Apple) Inside the brain [...]

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  • #
    Mark D.

    Adolf Balik @ 12

    Thanks for the link. If that author teamed up with Keith Farnish Imagine what the world would look like!

    I hope everyone reads it.
    http://hauntingthelibrary.wordpress.com/2011/01/05/ipcc-green-doctor-prescribes-end-to-democracy-to-solve-global-warming/

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  • #
    Stacey

    In support of Jo’s article and from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1315%E2%80%931317

    The Great Famine of 1315–1317 (occasionally dated 1315–1322) was the first of a series of large scale crises that struck North Europe early in the fourteenth century, causing millions of deaths over an extended number of years and marking a clear end to an earlier period of growth and prosperity during the eleventh to thirteenth centuries. Starting with bad weather in spring 1315, universal crop failures lasted through 1316 until summer 1317; Europe did not fully recover until 1322. It was a period marked by extreme levels of crime, disease, mass death and even cannibalism and infanticide. It had consequences for Church, State, European society and future calamities to follow in the fourteenth century.

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Adolf Balik @12, Mark D: @34,

    I’m sure the good Professor David Shearman would gladly be the first to off himself in the interest of saving the planet. Problem solved.

    Probably no such luck though.

    But they are in disarray and desperate. The fight back has begun here in the U.S. And if I may repeat myself, Australia needs a Tea Party or something similar to rally around. The future seems difficult one way or another so it might as well be difficult because we’re fighting our way out of this madness instead of knuckling under.

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Bernd Felsche @27,

    Had great pun reading you post!

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  • #
    Adolf Balik

    Another post on Professor David Shearman is here:
    http://icecap.us/index.php/go/political-climate

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  • #
    pat

    hmmm! explains a lot. Greens campaign for political donations from individuals to be capped at $1,000, but take $1.6m from a TRAVEL man:

    8 Jan: Brisbane Times: Paddy Manning: What makes someone give $1.6m to a political party?
    The director and founder of the travel booking website Wotif, worth an estimated $372 million according to BRW’s Rich List, knew there was frustration in business circles at the failure of the two main parties to tackle climate change, and he knew a few wealthy people who were sympathetic to the Greens’ cause.
    Advertisement: Story continues below He was disappointed to find none of them felt they could publicly donate to a political party…
    He has been the principal funder – contributing almost $500,000 – of the work of the Melbourne advocacy network Beyond Zero Emissions, which last year published, with the University of Melbourne, a fully costed plan to shift Australia to 100 per cent renewable energy by 2020.
    In March his private charitable foundation helped buy 27,000 hectares of threatened forest in the Tarkine forest in Tasmania from the woodchip company Gunns, along with the Kathmandu founder, Jan Cameron, the chairman of Sustainable Business Australia, Robert Purves, and others.
    Wood had also backed Investors for the Future of Tasmania and gave several hundred thousand dollars to fund a documentary on the plight of the wedge-tailed eagle…
    A one-year-old grandson, Liam, focuses his mind on what the world will be like in a century.
    ”The only agenda is my concern for the environment and what it’s going to be like when my grandson is 20 or 40 or 60,” Wood says.
    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/what-makes-someone-give-16m-to-a-political-party-20110107-19itj.html

    why not a proper break-down of the money?

    8 Jan: Brisbane Times: Paddy Manning: Web millionaire bankrolled Greens
    In the end, Mr Wood provided the vast bulk of the campaign funding himself…
    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/web-millionaire-bankrolled-greens-20110107-19iw9.html

    8 Jan: Port Stephens Examiner: Paddy Manning: Net millionaire bankrolled Green revolution
    He gave $8 million to the University of Queensland, where he studied, and $15 million to establish its Global Change Institute…
    Four years ago Mr Wood stepped back from his executive duties at wotif.com, the online travel company he founded in 1999, but he remains a director and retains a 23 per cent stake in the company, valued at $222.24 million based on yesterday’s closing share price of $4.63…
    http://www.portstephensexaminer.com.au/news/national/national/general/net-millionaire-bankrolled-green-revolution/2042143.aspx

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  • #
    David

    Why is it that us plebs out in Realityland know that COLD kills more people than WARM..??

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  • #
    janama

    Pat@39

    surely if Mr Wood felt that strongly about global warming he should shut down his travel agency and should stop encouraging people to travel!

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  • #
    chris

    I hope this cold spell produces a rebellion and I hope it ends badly for the bad guys (liberals, socialists, communists, corrupt of all flavour, bad scientists, warmists)

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Pointman @17,

    I noticed this in the link to your blog.

    Though not the whole story, the Republican candidates in the mid-terms recognized this trend, repositioned themselves accordingly and reaped the reward; elected to office and control of the House.

    I went looking for the breakdown of the new freshman class in the House:

    -96 new members
    - 9 Democrats and the rest Republicans
    - 87 Republicans
    - 65 have some prior experience in elected office (political experience)
    - 3 tried to pass off having been a candidate and lost as prior experience
    - 31 (32%) show no prior experience in elected office at all

    Of those with prior experience some of it was as little as local city or county office — not that that’s a problem compared to no experience at all

    I had to do the counting myself so if you look and I’m off you’ll know why.

    So it looks to me that not everyone was simply repackaging the same old pol according to which way the wind was blowing.

    And now they’ve read the Constitution aloud in House chamber to howls of protest from the talking heads and the Democrats. I rather like that (the reading and the protests). The Constitution is a document that could use a regular public airing in the halls of government all across this country.

    It’s particularly poignant that the Constitution prescribes the following oath that the President shall swear or affirm upon taking office:

    “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

    I note with great interest that the President does not swear to protect the United States, but it’s Constitution. So what did the founders know that our current generation finds so foolish (and so much in their way)? It’s that the Constitution is this country. It defines us right down to the very last living soul and square inch of soil. When we step outside the bounds of that Constitution as Obama has clearly done and admitted to doing. We are no longer the United States of America.

    I heard some intellectual genius saying they’re treating it like its some sacred text and I said yes, it is. It’s the most sacred text this country possesses. Throw it away so you can conveniently walk all over someone else and you better be ready for someone to walk all over you because from then on it’s no holds barred.

    I was right!

    At about 2 PM this afternoon I saw on the Internet that a New Mexico member of the House of Representatives along with a number of others had been shot about an hour before as she was leaving a meeting with her constituents. She is a Democrat. So it has begun. The left now has the excuse it needs to justify almost any restriction on freedom in the name of peace. This we bring upon ourselves when we are no longer willing to be bound by our laws. God help us! I fear for my country.

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    Roy Hogue

    Chris,

    Are you sure you rally want rebellion?

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    chris

    Hell no but then the liars and cheats set it off we just (or a lot of us) would not see it, IF there is a rebellion we had better make damn sure truth wins (unlike most in the last 100 years)

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    Ian Mott

    In northern China they may not have heating but in traditional houses the whole family slept on a large slab under which coals were burned. This large thermal mass retained heat right through the long winter nights in a logical extension of the aboriginal practise of taking a warm rock from the fire to bed with them.

    Historian, Fernand Braudell, still has the best coverage of the impact of seasons and climate on peace, order and good governance. He pointed out that the average european ear of wheat only had 5 grains on it. This meant that 1/5th of the entire crop was needed for next years seeds, and along with “the Kings fifth”, and the Barron’s fifth, it left only 40% of total production to be fought over between the rats, the church and the Serfs.

    The asian rice economies had multiple ears and multiple grains on each and this meant that a much smaller portion was needed for next years seed, leaving a larger portion at the mercy of the tax man, and hence the greater capital accumulation by asian governments.

    Interestingly, the Chinese had a much better horse yoke than Europe. The european one pushed against a horse’s wind pipe and restricted its capacity to pull a load. The Chinese one didn’t do this, hence we see pictures of 4 wheeled chariots in China and only two wheeled ones in Europe.

    These two factors had a critical impact on how the two economies developed. The Chinese developed a grain economy based on a more efficient grain variety and an improved capacity to transport it. The Europeans developed a mixed grain and livestock economy, with concentrated protein like cheese, which was less transport intensive. And their livestock could be driven to their market.

    It is no coincidence that the earliest flowering of the European economy took place around a comparatively safe seascape where the transport texhnology disadvantages could be overcome by shipping.

    The key point from all this is that the Chinese economy was more vulnerable to a single crop failure due to their larger manufacturing and services sector while the Europeans, with smaller non-primary sectors fell from a lesser height. They were also insulated by their larger livestock sector which could actually make greater use of a failed wheat crop, just as downgraded wheat, and drought impaired crops, are diverted to stock feed today.

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    One of the best books I’ve ever read: Wild Swans, Three Daughters of China.

    Jung Chang patiently and deliberately paints the mindsets of individuals pre- during- and post- Mao. Should be required reading in all education systems.

    I can tell you, these people were impacted by weather, but it was the least of their problems.

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    janama

    agreed Janet – great book.

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    Tel

    And now they’ve read the Constitution aloud in House chamber to howls of protest from the talking heads and the Democrats. I rather like that (the reading and the protests). The Constitution is a document that could use a regular public airing in the halls of government all across this country.

    They should read out loud ALL of the Federal Statutes at least once a year, while the whole house stands to attention.

    Sadly, the US Constitution was busted in the year 1871 by the Supreme Court Knox v Lee… the case that allowed the printing of greenbacks. Of course, the disastrous inflation that followed served as some temporary discouragement and an attempt to push the djinni back into the bottle, but from a constitutional perspective the damage was done. Forever afterwards, “No” would surely mean “Yes”.

    After a hundred years worth of repeated outrageous overuse of the “interstate commerce” clause the thing has been left in tatters.

    I saw on the Internet that a New Mexico member of the House of Representatives along with a number of others had been shot about an hour before as she was leaving a meeting with her constituents. She is a Democrat. So it has begun.

    I don’t think you can blame this directly on Obama’s skirting “outside the bounds of that Constitution”, in as much as the rule of Law in the USA has been weakening in millions of small ways long before anyone heard of Obama. There’s a turning point when not only does the system as a whole not work, but most of the citizens actually recognize and accept that it doesn’t work.

    Don’t forget that corruption is one possible protection from tyranny because it drastically limits the capacity of central planners to execute their plans. It’s not the ideal solution — better to have honest and open government — but sometimes you just need to play through with the cards that you get.

    http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/11/bernanke-is-like-plummer-who-pours-in.html

    May I recommend the explanation of George Washington (the younger) ?

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    Roy Hogue

    At 43 it’s Arizona, not New Mexico. What I first saw had the state wrong.

    The blaming fingers are pointing everywhere.

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    Roy Hogue

    Tel,

    I do not blame Obama for it all. He’s just a handy and obvious example. Remember that I live here and see it going on day by day. So I know the situation only too well.

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    Cookster

    Janama @ 51, yes Monckton certainly made mince meat out of poor Mike (thanks for picking this up). Unfortunately I’m not sure it will discourage Mr Steketee from writing further such articles. He’s a known left of centre Australian journalist who I believe The Australian employs to help balance their generally right of centre news and opinion. Mike is so typical of the alarmist brigade in that he’ll never admit he’s wrong and I predict he’ll continue to rely on argument from authority or cherry picking of weather events at least until the IPCC is disbanded and western Universities wake up to themselves.

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    @Roy Hogue January 9th, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Hi Roy. I’m more optimistic about the political situation in America with regard to climate.alarmism. The GOP candidates in the mid-terms read the popular sentiment and by declaring their skeptism, gained votes. I’ve no doubt that winning tactic will be used by them in the presidential election in two years time.
    In the UK, we’re now in a curious situation. The political establishment have abandoned pressing the climate alarm button because the feel nobody is listening anymore. People have more immediate concerns. The politicos here are simply not mentioning it any more.

    Pointman

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    Alexander K

    All European wars were fought after the crops were in and cattle were in the barns and were often a way of gaining (capturing) more food, breeding stock including women and children, and other vital resources.
    As to Steketee and his utter tripe, Christpher Monckton has posted a super demolition on WUWT today, which should soon be blowing Seketee out of the water.

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    BobC

    Roy Hogue:
    January 9th, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    At 43 it’s Arizona, not New Mexico. What I first saw had the state wrong.

    The blaming fingers are pointing everywhere.

    Of course, most media fingers are pointing at Sarah Palin and the Tea Party. Since the gunman claimed (on posted videos) that his favorite books were Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels’s “The Communist Manifesto” and Adolf Hitler’s “Mein Kampf”, it seems very unlikely he ever agreed with anything supported by the tea party, constitutionalists, or anybody else for whom individual liberty is a priority.

    His use of deadly force to enforce his desired politics is an old tradition with certain segments of the Left in the US, however (including unrepentant terrorist and Obama mentor William Ayers). Tellingly, his target was a (Democratic) Congresswoman who had sided with the Republicans on a number of issues repugnant to the Far Left. She had been deemed a traitor on far left web sites like the “Daily Kos”.

    Don’t expect to see anything about this on the national media however — if you want real reporting, check the local papers and stations. The national media doesn’t carry things that don’t fit the predetermined spin.

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    Roy Hogue

    Bob @56,

    Thanks for saying it. And yes, the truth is not to be found in the MSM. Another place to get information you don’t find just anywhere is, theblaze.com. It’s owned by Glenn Beck who isn’t very PC with many, even among conservatives. But it also does honest investigative journalism. But we should always be cautious and not simply swallow any single source of news. Beck, to say the least, is very controversial. He has his own agenda and it isn’t political activist as many want. He’s of course, responsible for the shooting along with all the other usual suspects.

    I expect much harm to come from this.

    Olberman is at least a little bit shaken up by this I think. According to Kos…

    He concluded his special comment [yesterday] with this powerful statement, including an apology for his own actions: “Violence, or the threat of violence, has no place in our Democracy, and I apologize for and repudiate any act or any thing in my past that may have even inadvertently encouraged violence. Because for whatever else each of us may be, we all are Americans.”

    But of course he still had no trouble laying the blame on his favorite target, Glenn Beck.

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    Roy Hogue

    Sorry, not Kos, but HuffPo reported Olberman’s statement. They do blend together in the mind. Or I’m losing mine.

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    Roy Hogue

    Fox News is reporting this today. The Obama Administration is ready to trot out plans for national Internet user IDs. This is all in the name of protecting everyone online, especially the children (what’s new) and eliminating all those pesky passwords that have to be remembered.

    A spokesman, when questioned, said that no central database will emerge. That said, I have some stock in a beautiful landmark bridge in New York City that I’m being forced to sell cheap. You better get it while you can.

    Oh, I forgot! I offered that before and no one took me up on it. Nuts!

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    Deadman

    Sad not news: the reported death of Robyn Williams.

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    cohenite

    Regarding Monckton and Steketee: it is a pity that Monckton’s reply will not be published in the Australian which like all media is bereft of insight into the racket of AGW.

    There needs to be one clarification about Monckton’s reply; at number 13 Monckton refers to Steketee’s assertion that there was a 3C higher Febuary temperature during the 2009 fires. This assertion by Steketee is junk but unfortunately Monckton does not check the historical records. According to the Argus newspaper the temperature on February 6, 1851, was 47.2C, which helped to superheat the fires that then roared across 10 times more land than was burned during Black Saturday. As well, the peak temperature in Melbourne during Black Saturday was 46.4C; the peak temperature during the 1939 Black Friday fires was 45.6C, a difference of 0.8C for the 70 year period during which Melbourne’s population increased by 3 million; the rise in temperature therefore is entirely due to UHI:

    http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/goodridge_1996_ca-uhi_county.jpg

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    [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by chemicallygreen. chemicallygreen said: http://bit.ly/gFPXjG Cold times means more death, war, rebellion, drought and flood in China. #globalwarming, #climate change #climategate [...]

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    janama

    I’ve sent a link to Monckton’s reply to the Australian – we should all do the same.

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    Vince Whirlwind

    Help me please, is the “logic” behind this article to the effect that

    – cold weather once killed 49% of China’s population, so who cares about weather that would only?kill a fraction of that

    OR

    – cold weather once killed lots of chinese people so obviously hot weather can’t do the same?

    I’m also curious about BobC’s assertion that bringing guns into politics is something to do with lefties. Perhaps BobC can remind himself of which leading “libertarian” printed campaign posters depicting her Democrat opponents’ home addresses with GUNSIGHTS overlaid on the picture?

    Or perhaps he can remind himself whether Byron Williams, Richard Poplawski, Jim Adkisson, Timothy McVeigh were lefties?

    If that doesn’t help, how about you tell us which of the following are lefties:

    Ann Coulter: “My only regret with Tim McVeigh is that he did not go to the New York Times building”

    Rush Limbaugh: “I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus–living fossils–so we we’ll never forget what these people stood for.”

    Glen Beck: “Hang on, let me just tell you what I’m thinking. I’m thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I’m wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. No, I think I could.”

    Michael Savage: “I say round liberals up and hang em’ high. When I hear someone’s in the civil rights business, I oil up my AR-25.”

    G . Gorden Liddy (broadcasting advice on how to kill law enforcement officers): “…head-shots, they are wearing body armor, head shots… or shoot for the groin.”

    Eric Erickson (Redstate.com): “At what point do [people] get off the couch, march down to their state legislator’s house, pull him outside and beat him to a bloody pulp for being an idiot?”

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    Bulldust

    I see they posted another crackpot at the ABC:

    http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/42772.html

    I read the full piece, and heard the screams as a few brain cells died in rebellion to the stupidity they were forced to read.

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    Bulldust

    Vince Whirlwind:

    Clearly you haven’t read too many of the CAGW leader comments … there are idiots on both sides of politics, the AGW debate and many other walks of life. What’s your point?

    As for cold weather versus hot… as much as I prefer cold weather because of my build/genetics etc… I would select hot for the human race in general. We flourish in the heat, not so much in the cold. Having said that, the Western World is far better placed to deal with extremes because of the luxuries of our technological lifestyles. So it’s really for the less developed countries of the world that we would request warm > cool because they are the ones that will suffer the most in the next ice age.

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    janama

    what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

    Leftists Issue 20 Death Threats to Palin and Family on Twitter

    http://patterico.com/2010/03/25/leftist-issues-death-threats-to-palin-and-family-on-twitter/

    Pennsylvania Man Admits to Threatening Sarah Palin- Wants Her Dead

    http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2010/09/pennsylvania-man-admits-to-threats-against-sarah-palin-wants-her-dead/

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    val majkus

    O/T but here’s a fascinating historical account though it’s limited to Australia

    the influence of climate on the first european
    SETTLEMENT
    OF AUSTRALIA: A COMPARISON OF WEATHER JOURNALS, DOCUMENTARY
    DATA AND PALAEOCLIMATE RECORDS, 1788–1793
    ABSTRACT

    el gordo at Dr Marohassy’s blog directed me and temperature enthusiasts would be interested to check out the temperatures
    http://climatehistory.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Environmental-History-2010-Gergis-envhis_emq079.pdf

    the historical temperature data starts on page 6 and there’s more about it on p 15

    anyway fascinating for anyone who likes history

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    cohenite

    Well done Vince, when in doubt descend to a visceral level of pseudo apolexy. Generally the cold/warm debate is resolved by the ratio of 10 to 1 holiday destinations being warm rather than cold. Seriously, a number of studies conclusively show that above average heat is far more salubrious than below average cold:

    http://vu-nl.academia.edu/RichardTol/Papers/155339/Climate_change_and_violent_conflict_in_Europe_over_the_last_millenniuam

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/22/95000-excess-us-deaths-during-the-cold-months-each-year/#comments

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/joc.2262/full

    http://www.jpands.org/vol14no4/goklany.pdf

    As for your list of non-left nutters or non-nutters saying nutty things, what is your point apart from the top of your numbskull?

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    Vince Whirlwind

    Bulldust, so you agree with me that BobC is wrong about lefties with guns in politics?
    Janama – you’ve missed the point. As usual.

    Also, Bulldust, you are clearly wrong about heat being beneficial: *our* civilisation emerged from the subset of the human race which evolved in the cold. The rest of the world’s “hot”-evolved humans quite obviously can’t organise a pissup in a brewery, which is why we waste so much money on foreign aid.

    The good thing about climate change is that it will finally wipe out vast numbers of the no-hopers who live off foreign aid. The bad thing is that our economy will collapse and thousands of boatloads of no-hopers will rock up here looking for handouts.

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    Mark D.

    Vince Whirlwind @ 70:

    The good thing about climate change is that it will finally wipe out vast numbers of the no-hopers who live off foreign aid. The bad thing is that our economy will collapse and thousands of boatloads of no-hopers will rock up here looking for handouts.

    Why would a slow warming collapse our economy faster than a 20% tax tomorrow on everything?

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    Vince Whirlwind

    Mark D., that’s a question for the economists. I’m not aware of economists predicting economic collapse to result from the UK’s recent increase to a 20% goods and services tax, but perhaps you can point us to the expert opinion which justifies your alarmist assertion.

    If you’ve studied Mesopotamian or Mayan history, you may be aware that economies do indeed collapse as a result of climate change.

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    Bulldust

    Vince:

    I said no one has a monopoly on idiots… all walks of life have ‘em. As for BoBC’s comments, nowhere does he state that guns as a solution to arguments are the exclusive domain of the left side of politics. What you did with BoBC’s comment is construct a “strawman argument.” You claimed he said something he did not, and then proceeded to argue against that false position.

    As for the rest of your post… I won’t touch that with a 100-foot cattle prod for obvious reasons. For the record, our current understanding is that the human race as we know it sprang out of the warm climes in Africa. If a program I saw recently is correct, there is less genetic diversity outside Africa than within it.

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    Ian Mott

    Could someone explain to Vince Windbag that the cross hairs graphic is a universal symbol for a target. Only extremist morons with a tenuous grasp on reality would believe that its use constitutes an inducement to violence. Get a grip you sanctimonious ponce.

    But if you have come here specifically to wallow in some ersatz outrage then perhaps you might care to reflect upon the now demonstrated fact that a bullet can pass through the brain of a leftard without apparent serious harm to cognitive functions. Was there any cognitive function there to begin with? Or was there just a loose melange of cliches, smarm and ideology?

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    Mark D.

    Vince! certainly you have noticed that today we have a slight advantage in technology compared to either Mesopotamian or Mayan history. Unless of course you strip away low cost fuel. Do a little study yourself on grain yields today compared to those times. Your argument is a bit trite. Of course if you continue to push “Bio fuels” you might get us into a food problem but that’s probably what you want right? knock down the population a bit?

    The last I heard the UK (or parts of her) were struggling with a bit of sour economic stomach. Riots and such but damn they won’t get to retire so young and school is going to cost a bit more…On the other hand, I don’t live there.

    Don’t forget the green AGW assholes are talking about 20% MORE than the taxes we live with today.

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    wendy

    Subject: UNSW Climate Change Research Centre

    Hi all,
    I recently was alerted to this communist anti Australian group working at the University of New England who are promoting this global warming FRAUD!!

    http://www.ccrc.unsw.edu.au/#

    http://www.ccrc.unsw.edu.au/staff/academic.html

    Here are a list of email addresses that I was able to find from their website.
    I encourage everybody to add them to your “hit list” then send them your “thoughts” and real facts about this CON!

    I CERTAINLY HAVE!!

    M.England@unsw.edu.au

    a.pitman@unsw.edu.au

    Gabriel@unsw.edu.au

    s.sherwood@unsw.edu.au

    l.alexander@unsw.edu.au

    jason.evans@unsw.edu.au

    donna.green@unsw.edu.au

    j.kidston@unsw.edu.au

    b.mcneil@unsw.edu.au

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    Vince Whirlwind

    MarkD, “Unless of course you strip away low cost fuel”.
    Luckily, that will not be happening over the next 50 years, seeing as oil supplies are inexhaustible.
    And if you have a problem with bio-fuels, perhaps you can investigate which US administration got into them in a big way before making further ideologically-based arguments.

    And Ian Mott – what can I say? Can we give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are just a teenager with social adaptation issues? You’re really quite disgusting.

    Bulldust, a lot has happened since some humans migrated from Africa: they settled Europe, endured an ice-age, and finally emerged as the originators of modern civilisation having evolved social and intellectual abilities not apparent in the “hot”-evolved descendants of their distant mother population.

    You only have to look at Queensland to see how quickly the intellect degenerates in those living in a hot climate.

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    janama

    Janama – you’ve missed the point. As usual.

    no I didn’t = I can recognise a lousy troll when I see one.

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    David Burgess

    Completely off topic.

    But relevant to the mess we are in.

    The March of the Sycophants

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    Vince Whirlwind

    So, Janama, I give you:
    – 4 mass-murderers who admit to being influenced in their crimes by right-wing political commentators.
    and
    – 6 examples of prominent right-wing commentators advocating violence

    And all you come back with are two pathetic examples of people sending naughty tweets?

    You seem to have forgotten that BobC’s contention was that

    “…use of deadly force to enforce his desired politics is an old tradition with certain segments of the Left in the US..”

    If a few naughty tweets are the best examples you can come up with, you have to admit that it’s the rightards who seem to hold to this purported tradition.

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    Bulldust

    So just so we’re painfully clear here Vince… you believe that the people who evolved in colder climates like Europe are more intellectually and socially evolved than those who evolved in warmer climes such as Africa. Not only that, people who have located to Queensland in the last couple hundred years, have managed to reverse some of that superior evolution by moving into a warmer climate.

    You should publish a paper in a peer-reviewed anthropology journal… this is groundbreaking stuff!

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    wendy

    Given that this “Vince Whirlwind” (77) believes that, and I quote “You only have to look at Queensland to see how quickly the intellect degenerates in those living in a hot climate”, one can only conclude the HE resides ON THE EQUATOR………

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    BobC

    Vince Whirlwind:
    January 10th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    I’m also curious about BobC’s assertion that bringing guns into politics is something to do with lefties.

    Perhaps it was the 94,000,000 murders by Communist regimes in the 20th century alone, that prejudiced my thinking.

    (Or, maybe that saying by Chairman Mao — from the little red book that all good left-wing radicals used to carry around: “Power comes from the barrel of a gun.”)

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    pattoh

    Ahoy Vince

    Perhaps you can see justification for all the devastation being wreaked on Indonesian rainforest for palm oil & the Amazon (Thanks George) for sugar cane but I sure as hell can not.

    I do not feel the slightest guilt for turning on my light & keeping my food in the frig. It is a pity the standard of living I enjoy & flourish in depends on burning fossil fuel. The developed world could be smarter about how it goes about business, but no amount of middle class guilt/ego driven breast beating is going improve life in third world countries. Most likely it will only make more of them.

    In the mean time, when your Prius breaks down it will probably get towed by a diesel truck.

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    BobC

    BTY: Every single one of the Communist dictatorships participating in the previously linked bodycount made sure to disarm the public first.

    They’re the experts (at democide), so I presume they know what they’re doing.

    I wonder where Vince Whirlwind stands on gun prohibition?

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    MadJak

    O/T

    What is it with left wing nutters lately, first the tucson shooting, and now the left wing nuts jump on the net trying to do a smokescreen on it. Even vince strives forward boldly.

    BTW – I find it really interesting in the whole right wing left wing arguments happening online, extreme views of any tribal persuasion have the same results. I think Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot and Napoleon would probably had much more in common than many people would think. For a start they were all misanthropic.

    That’s my 2c anyways.

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    Ian Mott

    Of course, if someone had shot a conservative politician then Vince Windbag and his trolls would be in full swing presenting the perpetrators disadvantaged background and blaming it all on a capitalist system that was indifferent to his suffering. But this one was one of theirs. And despite the very clear evidence that the guy drew his inspiration from both Hitler and Marx, with a healthy dose of THC induced psychosis, courtesy of the “progressive”(sic) forces, the leftards are trying to pin blame on anyone but themselves.

    The fact is that this was a crime perpetrated by a nobody on a political nobody and a number of by-standers. End of story.

    But lets make it clear. If he were the son of a farmer who had been driven to suicide by Departmental thugs, and he took a shotgun to the Minister concerned, then I would be bound to regard him as a casualty in a cruel war being waged by a callous abuser of power on a victimised minority. I would not encourage his actions, but having so acted, I would feel compelled to help his family get through a crisis not of their making.

    The leftards are milking this situation for all it will yield. But when all is said and done it is worth reflecting on the moral courage of real patriots like German Field Marshal Erwin Rommel. Her served his country and its people with great courage and distinction. But he also came to the conclusion that the leadership of his country was not worth the death of one more of his people.

    His attempt at assasinating Hitler failed, just as 41 other attempts had also failed. But every one of those people who died as traitors should be held head and shoulders above every person who merely fought, or even died, for their country. Erwin Rommel and many others had the courage to pay with their lives for something much more important than what their country had become. They committed treason to hang on to what his people once were and he died to bring them back again. Lest we f@#$% forget.

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    janama

    If a few naughty tweets are the best examples you can come up with,

    It’s not a matter of what I or anyone can come up with. It’s about you coming onto this site to troll and assumed that because we are sceptics we must be right wing fanatics. What an assumption!!

    BobC’s post was an OT thread – had nothing to do with this thread about how man has reacted to hot and cold climates. But you jumped in like a typical troll and tried to start a fight.

    Go away.

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    Llew Jones

    Don’t know if this counts but the big O, who is notionally on the Left, has also been stirring the crazies pot with a bit of his own imagery:

    There is much talk that Sarah Palin’s “crosshairs” ad pushed Loughner over the edge. But if sloppy use of gun metaphors can drive anyone to shoot congressional representatives, think what we are up against when the president of the United States invokes violent imagery to galvanize his supporters. What are we to make of Obama’s warning of “hand-to-hand combat” if the Republicans take over; or his comment that one of his supporters could “tear [Sean Hannity] up”; or his Untouchables boast that “if they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun”; or his advice to supporters of his presidential campaign to argue with Republicans and independents and “get in their face”?

    Why would a president boast about figuring out “whose ass to kick,” or, in a climate of fear about terrorism, call his opponents “hostage takers”? In a post-9/11 world, is it prudent for the commander-in-chief to say of his political opponents, “Here’s the problem: It’s almost like they’ve got — they’ve got a bomb strapped to them and they’ve got their hand on the trigger. You don’t want them to blow up”? What about, “But you’ve got to kind of talk them, ease that finger off the trigger”?

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/256697/political-vultures-victor-davis-hanson?page=2

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    cohenite

    The individuals Vince has used to prove his point about “rightard” violence were all deeply disturbed, lacking in empathy and narcissistic; their ragbag ideology was more important to them than the lives of citizens. Arguably this self-centredness has been created by the left-wing dominance of education and the other processes whereby citizens derive their sense of the worth of the society they live in. For decades the left has denigrated the Western democratic structure; it has created and fostered a zeitgeist of victimology and mitigation of self-responsibility; this has allowed many anti-social activities to be exonerated; nominal right-wing ideologically motivated terrorists have in fact been nurtured by the left wing breakdown of the defining characteristic of Western democracy: an equivalence between rights and responsibilities.

    While noone should be directly held responsible for the actions of others, especially when they are borderline psychotic, and even though some of the comments quoted by Vince were ill-advised, the fact is when you have a constant erosion of the basis of society, the vitiation of personal responsibility and the creation of an ethical void, then you have created a fertile breeding ground for deranged individuals, who are not true conservatives [which is what Vince probably is confusing rightards with] but merely the cutting edge of the social experiment initiated by the left. The most dominant example of this violent reaction, of course, is the latitude given to muslim violence, in deed and advocacy.

    Other than this subversive inducement to violence, the violent capacity of the left is much more pervasive and expressed through social policy; the cutting edge of this is left support for AGW, which at heart is a vehicle for the introduction of left social policy; the prelude to this introduction will be the destruction of the capitalist and personal liberty system; compared to the damage and havoc this will wreak even the evil of a McVeigh will pale.

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    janama

    can we move this to the political forum?

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    BobC:
    January 10th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Vince Whirlwind:
    January 10th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    (Or, maybe that saying by Chairman Mao — from the little red book that all good left-wing radicals used to carry around: “Power comes from the barrel of a gun.”)

    I believe it was “political power grows out of the barrel of a gun”. Never were truer words spoken. Would anyone take any notice of politicians (or lawyers) if they didn’t have the power to send armed men around to your place? I think it was George Washington who said “government is naked force”.

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    cohenite

    janama, any discussion about AGW is intrinsically political.

    However, the strong misanthropic aspect of AGW often goes beyond even the political and shows the pathological nature of many AGW supporters; for instance the abc, where else, has a cockamany article by Steffan and some fellow wizards of the AGW church; this comment is a response:

    “BLZBob :
    10 Jan 2011 9:07:08pm
    If our planet is behaving like a living entity, then it is behaving like one that is suffering a massive cancerous tumor.
    Some parts of its biology just don’t seem to know when to stop reproducing.
    This planet needs a massive dose of chemotherapy.
    We just need to identify the right poison and the right dose to knock out the offending malignant parasite.”

    Do you think he/she/it is talking about mosquitoes?

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    Mark D.

    Vince W. @ 76:

    MarkD, “Unless of course you strip away low cost fuel”.
    Luckily, that will not be happening over the next 50 years, seeing as oil supplies are inexhaustible.
    And if you have a problem with bio-fuels, perhaps you can investigate which US administration got into them in a big way before making further ideologically-based arguments.

    Did I say anything about who (other than you) pushed Biofuels? (and I notice you didn’t deny that either).

    Since YOU asked; It was mostly the EPA that caused the motive force (a bastion of right wing policies don’t you agree?), and then you had politicians looking for a way to appease green assholes. In the end, you have government trying to meddle in a market. Does that sound familiar to you? Since bio-alcohol as a fuel is absurd, why don’t you just agree with me?

    By the way, what is wrong with ideology based arguments?

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    BobC

    87janama:

    BobC’s post was an OT thread – had nothing to do with this thread about how man has reacted to hot and cold climates. But you jumped in like a typical troll and tried to start a fight.

    Sorry about the OT comment, janama. I had no intention of setting off “Vince Windbag” — It’s obvious he jumps on such topics because he has nothing logical or persuasive to say about AGW.

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    Olaf Koenders

    I’VE DONE IT!!

    I’ve found a way to reduce my power bill and CATASTROPHIC carbon footprint by some 30% without:

    1. Resorting to draconian measures such as installing expensive, poisonous and safely unrecyclable compact flouros
    2. Switching those stupid lights off when not needed
    3. Kowtowing to ridiculously expensive solar panels that will have their feed-in tariffs cut back soon
    4. Buying into expensive, ineffective and heavily subsidised wind power and;
    5. Mindless stupidity such as endorsing Brumby’s idiotic plan to cut 1/4 of Hazelwood’s DANGEROUS coal power output (without a plan to cover the lost megawatts effectively sans blackouts)..

    It’s just so simple. I drilled an invisible 1mm hole in my meter and jammed a wire against the disc to stop it turning on the weekends. Now, on the bill, it also calculates my CATASTROPHIC carbon footprint as greatly reduced.

    Now to get hold of my electrician mate and find a way of getting round those new “smart meters” that are being rolled out and we’re ALREADY paying for even before they’re installed – and see if I can drop my CATASTROPHIC carbon footprint further.

    See? I’m doing my bit and I’m sure we can all do the same to SAVE THE PLANET. Being green and energy concious makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.. ;)

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    wendy

    I wonder if a strong magnet would adversely affect one of those “smart” (DUMB) meters??

    Might be worth a try!!

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    Vince Whirlwind

    But, BobC, and Mike, I wasn’t commenting on “communist regimes”, “chairman Mao”, or any “little red book”.

    I was simply responding to the following statement of Bob’s:

    use of deadly force to enforce his desired politics is an old tradition with certain segments of the Left in the US.

    …the Left in the US.

    You’ve had ample opportunity to support your statement, but of course we all knew from the start that it was plain old bull.

    Politically-inspired violent rhetoric and violent acts in the US are a product of rightard delusions. And at one point the Black Panthers as well. And there was the Unabomber. Not sure if they’ve had the animal liberationists over there like they did in Europe.

    Basically, there is no “left” in the US, anyway. Any country where the president can get away with closing down all airports, EXCEPT for his Saudi Arabian mates, as well as imposing a constitution on Iraq that made trade-unionism a terrorist offence is not a country that enjoys a pluralist democracy in the first place.

    On another note, what about the Sea Shepherd sticking it to the japs on the news last night? You can’t hate all environmentalists, when some of them are doing the job of defending our waters that our government is too gutless to do?

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    MadJak

    Olaf,

    You just reminded me of story of a farmer many years ago who had a large magnet resting on a shelf above the power meter to keep his bills down. After 30 years he was taken to court.

    He apparently turned up in his black shorts, swandri and gumboots (polished of course) and just played the “dumb farmer” routine with comments like “why should I have to move my magnet, I always put my magnet there, you move your bloody power meter!” and so forth.

    How much truth is in the story, I don’t kn ow. But it wouldn’t surprise me with the characters out that way.

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    Ian Mott

    So now our mate Windbag dredges out his Victorian era, social darwinist bilge about ambient temperatures and intellect. And all of it wrapped up in urban green/left ideology. Just scratch the surface here a bit folks and you will also find a rampant metrocentric chauvenism where his supposedly superior urban intellect is used as the justification for wholesale deprivation of the rights and liberties of regional Australians. Yep, the standard green/left fascist scumbag with an arrogance that could only be rooted in gross ignorance, and a narcissism capable of “salvaging” those who he believes are incapable of helping themselves.

    BTW Andrew Bolt has an interesting run down on why the Tucson Sheriff shot his grossly unprofessional mouth off. It seems the shooter was known to police, having made death threats to numerous local public figures, including Gifford, but the Sheriffs own office declined to prosecute.

    If the elected “Democrat” Sheriff had done his job the way a more conservative sheriff would have then the shooter would not have been able to buy the 9mm pistol in the first place. And as the person ultimately responsible for Gifford’s safety, the Sheriff and all his officers should have recognised him the moment he got within 200m of the gathering.

    The shooters gripe with Gifford started long before Palin even made it onto the radar. So it looks like a classic bit of green/left karma where their own failures to discharge their own obligations to protect the community has come back to bite them.

    So crawl back under your rock, Windbag, the slime mould is getting lonely.

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    chris

    Windy vince, trade unions are terrorists, commie shit with no morals so wrong again you need to get very right wing to get to the depravity of even mild left, look at all the murderous dictators of the last 100 years, many genuine righties there? no I didnt think so, how about lefties? oh yes. I think the dumbest thing I ever heard was my country fighting a socialist dictator for 6 years then voting in a socialist government. Ian has the story, just like the Dunblane shooting in Scotland that was used to ban handguns (except illegal ones) the police royaly screwed up and got away with murder. What is missing is proper conservative principles.

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    Roy Hogue

    I do wonder how this blog kept going for so long without Vince Whirlwind to tell us the straight scoop on everything. He’s well named — spinning, spinning, spinning…

    Got his knowledge of the U.S. off the wall in some public restroom apparently.

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    Roy Hogue

    Ian,

    There’s a greater tragedy in the Gifford shooting.

    The shooters gripe with Gifford started long before Palin even made it onto the radar.

    But the truth will not matter.

    I expect the shooting to fuel a wholesale push to discredit Republicans in the eyes of the public that could undo much of what was gained by two years of hard work.

    Worse, it will add fuel to the push by the Obama administration to silence opposing views. If you aren’t looking behind what the MSM reports you don’t see this. But the scaffold has been built and freedom of speech is standing on the trap with the noose around its neck. They only need a way to make it palatable to the general public so they can pull the lever.

    It simply will not matter that the shooter was a nut case, that he was far left himself or anything else. As we all can bear witness, politics is a take no prisoners, no holds barred sport with power as the goal. And the game is played as ruthlessly as necessary. As I noted about Obama in an earlier post, the end result is the only thing that will count. One gun can have far reaching consequences.

    Even after the truth is well publicized the push is on. Check out theblaze.com for the stuff you don’t see anywhere else. The dishonesty has to be seen if you want a grip on the magnitude of it.

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    Olaf Koenders

    MadJak @ 99:

    You just reminded me of story of a farmer many years ago who had a large magnet resting on a shelf above the power meter to keep his bills down. After 30 years he was taken to court.

    I’ve tried many powerful magnets and they seem to have no discernible effect. There are many such “hacks” across the binternet that either claim to work at 115 or 240V, or randomly on a blue moon with silver-lined clouds.

    I remember a simple “dongle” that could be made with a resistor and 3 capacitors that when plugged into the wall socket would supposedly help run the meter backwards faster the more you used, through inverting the line phasing. The design dates back to 1988 and “Jolly Roger”, but it was designed for 115V. The 240V version I made immediately disappeared in a flash of blue and white light.. ;)

    Fact is, although there’s (at last note many moons ago) a $10K incentive for meter readers to report cheats, it should have been up to the electricity company to prove that the magnet actually reduced his bill in any way. If the farmer painted a pentagram or hung a talisman such as a spirit catcher on his meter the electric company could claim likewise?

    In any case, the farmer didn’t “physically” tamper with the meter, such as opening or modification, so the case should be thrown out and bad luck to the electric company if the magnet/talisman actually DOES work. It’s up to them that such devices don’t interfere with their meter, similar to FCC regulations today regarding class “B” electronics and interference.

    Sorry for the O.T. Jo. Note to everybody that I’m not endorsing tampering with meters, as the fines for being caught just ONCE are prohibitive and, the many ways of being tracked down for cheating are quite simple and they don’t even need to look at your meter to find the “leak” within a few blocks. This is how hemp growers get caught as they use large amounts of power. Small amounts are rarely noticed unless it occurs in a sharp spike that never reverts. They’re always on the lookout and so would you be, if you owned a multi-billion dollar electricity reselling company :)

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    M Wilson

    Pointman

    Re: “Unbelievable as it sounds, I’ve been told on at least two seperate occasions by people actually living in China, that the average Chinese dwelling has no heating”

    I lived in China for 5 years and was in Changsha in Hunan last week. North of the Yellow River there is heating in almost all houses in all significant cities and towns. The heating is based on the Russian model where huge govt-run boilers provide home heating for the entire city/town via a system of pipes that run through the house. The heating is turned on on a certain day and off on a certain day.

    The houses I lived in Heilongjiang, Inner Mongolia and Hebei had this system and certainly were not expat housing. The town I lived in in Heilongjiang was a small farming/mining town close to the Russian border.

    South of the Yellow River it is another story. In Changsha they don’t have this system and it was ~zero inside the apartment I lived in. The apartment is new and designed more for the hot weather rather than the cold.

    M

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    BobC

    Vince Whirlwind:
    January 11th, 2011 at 6:12 am

    But, BobC, and Mike, I wasn’t commenting on “communist regimes”, “chairman Mao”, or any “little red book”.

    I was simply responding to the following statement of Bob’s:

    use of deadly force to enforce his desired politics is an old tradition with certain segments of the Left in the US.

    …the Left in the US.

    You’ve had ample opportunity to support your statement, but of course we all knew from the start that it was plain old bull.

    Politically-inspired violent rhetoric and violent acts in the US are a product of rightard delusions.

    Well, Vince, you might want to look at this handy compendium of US’s leftist violence: Progressive climate of hate: an illustrated primer

    It just scratches the surface.

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    BobC

    oh, BTY: The Unibomber was a left-wing loon. When his manifesto was published, many progressives found it compelling — I know because I read their letters to the Boulder paper praising it.

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    Mark D.

    BobC @ 106, thanks for that link! I think I’ll send it to a few friends.

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