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Ramming the scam through Parliament

This is what it comes down to:

Turnbull is sacrificing his leadership ambitions, ignoring his party members, brushing off thousands of emails, denying the devastating ClimateGate scandal and the evidence of fraud, and doing his utmost to force through legislation in a break-neck rush when the only reason for the hurry is to make Rudd (his opponent) look good in Copenhagen.

D-Day is tomorrow. If Turnbull can find six complicit senators they can pull the “guillotine” on questions, and force a vote. With their seven votes the ETS legislation could be passed, and from that instant, Australians will be poorer. Even if the scheme doesn’t start, from that moment on businesses and banks will ‘invest’ and demand compensation if it’s not carried through.

Turnbull will face almost certain wipeout the next day as leader in a spill he claims he can win, but has “deferred” from Monday until Tuesday. He is nothing but naked bluff. His determination to help the Labor Party at the expense of his own ambition defies logic and begs dark questions.

Turnbull could stay on as leader if he delays the ETS

“My office has had an absolute deluge of emails,” Abbott said.

“The phone lines have been in meltdown with people saying the Liberal Party would not be doing its job as an opposition simply to pass this thing without the scrutiny that the people calling my office think it demands.

“Even at this late stage if Malcolm was prepared to change his mind, if he was prepared to say, `Well, look, there is a case for being a bit more collegial on this issue, then I think that I’d be very very happy to support Malcolm.” [The Australian]

His party members have approached him offering to avoid a leadership spill if he just agrees to delay the ETS and allow a full inquiry into it. But what’s extraordinary is that this man who obviously had hoped to lead the country is so willing to give that up in order to pass legislation on a topic that is hardly that close to his heart (or so it would seem anyway).

It’s not like Turnbull has made it his moniker to save forests, spotted quolls, or rescue islands (that aren’t sinking). He hasn’t spent his life working with Greenpeace, or written books about saving whales. He’s an ambitious, aggressive investment banker. And that’s now looking like an ominous connection. I haven’t made a lot of his past work with Goldman Sachs, but there is an inexplicable undercurrent here.

It’s one hell of a legacy to leave the country. Turnbull is going out of his way, and at considerable personal cost to force this legislation through. Why?

He’s sacrificing his ambitions and going to extreme lengths to force through a piece of legislation that is so detested within his party that his front bench has mutinied en masse, and on what is widely tipped to be his last day as opposition leader. It’s one hell of a legacy to leave the country. He is going out of his way, and at considerable personal cost, to force this legislation through.

Maybe this is just blind determination. He’s a determined man. But it doesn’t add up. Wonder where his next job will be?

Maybe the dark shadows of the tentacles of Goldman Sachs are at work.

Which politicians will go down in history for supporting fraud?

Thanks to Viv Forbes of Carbon Sense for the list of the most useful liberal senators to email today and tomorrow. Please inundate their offices and leave them in no doubt that we are livid at being sold out to the big bankers. We will leave no stone unturned to make sure that the public know who is responsible, and we will pursue legal actions to hold people accountable.

Any senator who passes this will be seen as negligent in light of the fraud and deceit this bluff is based on.

Click on their names for emails. The full list of senators is here:

Michael Ronaldson senator.ronaldson@aph.gov.au, Senator George Brandis senator.brandis@aph.gov.au, Senator Sue Boyce senator.sue.boyce@aph.gov.au, Senator Judy Troeth  senator.troeth@aph.gov.au, Senator Maris Payne  senator.payne@aph.gov.au, Senator Kroger  senator.kroger@aph.gov.au.

Email the Labor Party too. There are good people there who may cross the floor themselves. Who wants to be recorded as selling out their nation in support of a fraud that was known to be so at the time the legislation was passed?

Labor Senators:

senator.arbib@aph.gov.au; senator.bilyk@aph.gov.au; senator.bishop@aph.gov.au; senator.carol.brown@aph.gov.au; senator.cameron@aph.gov.au; senator.carr@aph.gov.au; senator.collins@aph.gov.au; senator.conroy@aph.gov.au; senator.crossin@aph.gov.au; senator.evans@aph.gov.au; senator.farrell@aph.gov.au; senator.faulkner@aph.gov.au; senator.feeney@aph.gov.au; senator.forshaw@aph.gov.au; senator.furner@aph.gov.au; senator.hogg@aph.gov.au; senator.hurley@aph.gov.au; senator.ludwig@aph.gov.au; senator.lundy@aph.gov.au; senator.mcewen@aph.gov.au; senator.mclucas@aph.gov.au; senator.marshall@aph.gov.au; senator.moore@aph.gov.au; senator.nash@aph.gov.au; senator.obrien@aph.gov.au; senator.polley@aph.gov.au; senator.pratt@aph.gov.au; senator.sherry@aph.gov.au; senator.stephens@aph.gov.au; senator.sterle@aph.gov.au; senator.wong@aph.gov.au; senator.wortley@aph.gov.au

Who wants to be recorded as selling out their nation in support of a fraud that was known to be so at the time the legislation was done?

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70 comments to Ramming the scam through Parliament

  • #
    Mattb

    I guess Turnbull figures that his only chance at being PM is to pass the legislation and hope he clings to the leadership. For sure he could agree to oppose the ETS and be the opposition leader for 20 years.

    Above all you should apply the same standards as you do to Joyce and those prepared to defy their leader and the party room… this guy obviously backs the ETS and action on climate change to such an extent he is prepared to risk his political career on it. Gutsy move… or is that only if he is a skeptic?

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  • #
    Phillip Bratby

    Wish I could help from the UK. After all it’s mostly our fault (not me personally, you understand).

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  • #

    Mattb – dream on. Are you kidding me that Turnbull could justify this decision with anything more than “IPCC”, “IPCC”, & a fake consensus?

    Skeptics are gutsy because hordes of those on the gravy train, and even the PM calls them “criminals” just for asking questions.

    I judge dissenters on a case by case basis. Why should I treat everyone the same way? Some dissenters can think.

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  • #

    Mattb,

    It was never about the science for you was it?

    Being stupid is NOT being Gutsy, its just being stupid.

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  • #
    Mark

    If this was parliament I would move that Mattb be no longer heard.
    Ignore him folks, he’s not interested in genuine discourse. A died in-the-wool greenie if ever there was one.

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  • #

    Guys, can I say that as much as I don’t agree with some of what Matt says, to his credit, he is almost always polite, and has been civil about things, and right now he is rare.

    This week there are hardly any fans of AGW who are willing to speak up on skeptical blogs. The usuals have all gone silent.

    I’d like a few more to speak up, but a couple of our counter-commentators simply will not say “sorry” (in a private reply even), for calling us names. It’s bizarre. They want us to believe in AGW but they can’t find it in themselves to reach preschool levels of politeness so they can continue to comment unmoderated.

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  • #
    J.Hansford

    Turnbull said this.

    [i]“…”The Minchinites do not want to delay consideration of the legislation, they do not believe that climate change is real, they do not believe that humans are causing it and they do want to do anything about it…”[/i]

    Yorr damn tootin’ …By Golly, I think Malcolm’s got it. :-)

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Similar legislation in the U.S. seems to be dead in the Senate for now. I’m very sorry to see that it’s not dead in Australia. Keep up the fight to the end. I hope you can succeed! Give ‘em hell!

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  • #
    Anne-Kit Littler

    We may all emigrate to the USA, Roy! Can your country accommodate us?

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  • #
    Robinson

    We may all emigrate to the USA, Roy! Can your country accommodate us

    I was thinking of moving to Aus. Will the place be empty when I get there?

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  • #

    If we don’t succeed we in the West may have to secede.

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  • #
    Anne-Kit Littler

    I like that idea, Jo. Sir Charles Court was a wise man!

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Anne-Kit,

    You would all be welcome for my part. We need a lot more good judgment and common sense than we have right now. So come on over.

    There’s no guarantee that Cap-and-Trade will stay dead though. But I think Climategate will help. And if Al Gore’s recent comeuppance in Chicago is any indicator, the tide is turning.

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  • #
    J.Hansford

    Aye, it is time to reiterate States rights and to understand the concepts.

    We have State Constitutions for a reason… State Politics should not be a mirror of Federal politics, nor should local politics.

    Your family is more important than the town, your town is more important than the State, the State is more important than the Federation, The Federation is more important than the rest of the World… Despite what Kevin Rudd says.

    The freedom of the Individual is the Keystone to Western society and the worth of a persons productivity is their own to sell.

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  • #
    Mark Stevens

    Secede- U.N. ET AL… not up for this subjugation, jo, under any circumstances. Mattyb, is good to read your smug, semi witted, raddled ramblings not just for the amusement value, but because we know that your creed of miscreants are legion so you provide a useful(ish) insight into the hand wringing, hanky chewing, “useful idiots”(viz J Stalin) who are both the manna and mallable flock of the new religion. keep up the good work.

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  • #
    Rod Smith

    Joanne: If we don’t succeed we in the West may have to secede.

    We tried that once. It didn’t work out too well!

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  • #
    Denny

    Joanne, another great post! Sounds like the scenario here in the U.S.Congress. The bonus is the Health Care Fiasco is keeping it at bay to some degree..

    Here’s the latest from “American Thinker”…Global Warming Fraud and The Future of Science
    A very good article..must read! http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?1319.last

    and this one:

    ‘Unpredictable’ Revkin Becomes Smiing Assassin by i wishart,
    http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?1320.last

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  • #
    Steve Schapel

    As I understand it (as an ex-pat Australian), Aussies are more likely than most other cultures, to accept and respect somebody saying “I’m sorry, I was wrong. On the basis of information previously available to me I decided such-and-so, but now I’ve changed my mind.” So, it beats me why more Autralian politicians don’t take advantage of this option.

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  • #
    Steve Schapel

    Oh dear, in the meantime, this shows the quality of the nutter we have running the show in New Zealand!

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  • #
    Jules

    Political reality in Australia:

    Scenario 1. New Liberal leader, ETS Bill not passed by Senate, the PM calls for a double dissolution. Result: ALP wins a majority both in the House of Reps and the Senate. The ALP Bill in its current format for the ETS passes through both houses. The australian population realise eventually what was pretty obvious to the powerbrokers in the ALP, who don’t really care about their countrymen.

    Scenario 2. Mr. Turnbull talks gets some sense into the Liberal and National parliamentarians. The ETS Bill as amended passes through the Senate. There is no early double dissolution election, and a Liberal/National party united stop their bickering and put Australian first, win the election and chuck the ETS bill on the scrapheap as part of the deal.

    Seems pretty simple to me. If only they can overcome the censorship imposed by a controlled media!

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  • #
    Bruce

    Hi Jules,

    Scenario 2 sounds good, except my understanding is that once the ETS is passed, it will be very difficult to remove.

    Here is an extract from Nick Michin’s interview on the 7.30 report, on 27/11:

    “Once an emissions trading scheme is legislated in this country, I think the reality is it would never be unwound, once you had established under it the property rights associated with the permits and the whole new industry that would be created around trading in these permits. That’s why so many of us regard this as so significant that it requires very, very careful scrutiny.”

    Isn’t it better to go for scenario 1. Climategate is sweeping the US, and apparently the cap’n trade bill is now dead. Climategate seems to be gathering momentum and must eventually have some effect in Australia.

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  • #
    Jules

    A fair comment, Bruce.

    But I believe that Scenario 1 is by far the worst option… Copenhagen with all its ramifications is going to lead to socialisation and control of our democratic society by stealth.

    The labor powerbrokers behind the scenes are pretty savvy at reading the electorate and how it will vote. Unless there was a complete turnaround in public opinion, I cannot see them losing a double dissolution election. They have pretty well got control of the media and are expert at putting perceptions in the public’s mind.

    To my understanding, 2012 is the date the legislation is due to come into force if passed in the Senate. Surely this will allow time for more changes or even removal of the legislation.

    The Liberals and Nationals need to keep themselves in the game, not self-destruct to the cheers of the ALP and the greens.

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  • #
    Bruce

    Jules,

    I agree with your logic. However I think that the passage of the ETS through the Australian senate represents a victory for the AGW supporters. While a rejection represents a “battle” victory for the realists.

    I am hopeful that the rejection of the ETS in Australia, the climategate emails, the growing opposition to the cap’n trade bill in the US, and the failure of Copenhagen will all combine to bring about a change in the public opinion. Apparently a lot of Labor MP’s also now doubt the science.

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  • #
    Bruce

    Of course the influence of Jo’s web pages has to be factored in as well!

    00

  • #

    30th November, 2009

    SENATE MUST BE ALLOWED TO DO ITS JOB

    The Nationals Senator and Whip in the Senate John Williams says it would be wrong for the Senate to rush through debate on the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme legislation.

    Senator Williams said it appears the Government’s continued pressure on the Senate to reach a decision is more about giving the Prime Minister a prize to take to Copenhagen rather than a decision that is in the best interests of Australia.

    “The Senate is the house of review where all legislation is scrutinised, and where necessary, amended.

    This set of bills is arguably the most important to be debated since the GST and to not allow considered debate on each and every amendment would be to fail every Australian.

    The Nationals have opposed the cornerstone of this legislation, the Emissions Trading Scheme, since the outset and we have not shifted our position.

    We would support sending it off to a Senate Committee for thorough investigation and report early next year”, Senator Williams said.

    ENDS

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  • #
    Jules

    Twacki, face political reality. I entirely agree that the ETS needs time, but…

    If you want to be able to do something about ETS, you need to be IN the halls of power, not squarking from the sidelines about the whole issue. And that is probably where the Libs and Nats will be if they go down their current path.

    Power means the ability to change dangerous legislation and that cannot be done if the parties spend years and years in opposition.

    If that means that Mr. Turnbull needs to remain as leader and the legislation passed, then so be it.

    That is the reality. Sad but true.

    00

  • #
    Steve Schapel

    Jules,

    Whereas there is speculation that a double dissolution election may happen, I have also seen the opinion that Rudd is unlikely to go down that track.

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  • #

    I suggest that all the true believers in human-caused climate change should start a new global political party: Carbon Reducers Against Pollution. I think the acronym would be appropriate.

    00

  • #
    Steve Schapel

    Twawki,

    My impression is that the longer the process can be delayed, the greater the chance that it won’t get through.

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  • #
    John

    Folks, go to http://www.hopenhagen.org/blogEntry/50374#comment-507 and enter your views. This is the Hopenhagen website, it’s flashy and obviously pro-Hoaxenhagen and hosted by mainstream media BUT, read the comments. Add yours, we own the blogosphere….keep it up!

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  • #

    Jules

    I don’t believe the public support the ETS and those that do don’t know a lot about it or the implications of it and Copenhagen. If we had transparent government then people could make an informed decision and the informed decision by voters would be a resounding NO. Why else would they try and ramm this thing through subversively! To block it now means more time to educate the public and make them aware of what really is going on.

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  • #
    Vlastislav

    Turnbull to have any chance to become PM needs to pass ETS?

    Roy Morgan poll yesterday: Who would you vote?
    -Labor 30%
    -Liberal WITH ETS – 7%
    -Liberal WITHOUT ETS – 43%
    Clear enough Matt?

    I believed from the start that Turnbull’s main goal from the beginning was to reform or tear down the Liberal party and make it a B team of Labor. Since he lost the Republic Referendum he never forgave the Liberals. He does not care if he falls, as long as he can take the Liberal Party with him. I could never understand how the Party could meke him their leader.

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  • #
    Steve Schapel

    John (#30)… Did you read the article itself? This is not mainstream AGW ‘save the planet’ palaver. This is AGW profiteering, which one does not normally see discussed so baldly.

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  • #
    Steve

    I agree Jo,

    The real danger here is that once the bill is passed it’s very unlikely it will ever be repealed. Because, as you say, businesses will have “invested” time and money into the system. Businesses will claim the government forced them into carbon trading and so has an obligation to support the system they put in place.

    And yup, Goldman Sachs would LOVE to be able to trade carbon credits (life tax). “Follow the money” has never been more pertinent.

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  • #

    Steve,

    Since when did the political class worry about property rights? The bill itself is one huge violation of them. I wouldn’t give it a second thought about canceling the so called “contracts” to deal in stolen wealth. I would even consider prosecuting Goldman Sachs et.al. for theft by deception and misappropriation of public funds. I would include with every damn politician who voted for any bill that came even close to “trading” carbon.

    Its way past time we explain, in a way that cannot be denied or misunderstood, that our lives are ours and that they may NOT touch any part of them.

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  • #
    jules

    Global warming and climate change in this context are all scams designed to change the politics of our world forever.

    The frothing at the mouth professors, greens and general twaddle merchants who have been set up to knock down any who dare to say they are wrong have been given maximum air time in past weeks and months. It is the way our media has been, ever since that movement know as the greens was started and used by the ALP to gain government. The green movement is based on lies, deception, junk science and straight out fakehood, put in the public arena for so many years, and accepted without question by the gullible. It is hard to get a contrary message across.

    How many of you reading this accept without question that it is wrong to harvest our timber from native forests? This is one of many major deceptions which have become a mantra of the public and accepted without question.

    If you disagree with this concept, the greens have done their job well, and snowed you the public with the idea of replacing our native timber harvesting with plantations. One of many falsehoods, like no fuel reduction burning, or allowing the building of houses in totallly unsuited forested areas.

    Remember it is almost impossible to get dissenting opinion in the mainstream media.

    The political science is settled.

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  • #
    Bulaman

    Can I be the first to descibe the goings on in the Liberal party as a different kind of Hockey Stick”???

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  • #
    allen mcmahon

    An ETS now as a compromise is more likely to erode the base the Liberal party than continued opposition. The Libs were going to remain in opposition for the next term regardless of policy. AGW is starting to unravel and each poll shows less public support. The following election is what counts and to oppose the ETS is a good strategy.

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  • #
    barking toad

    Wonder what sort of “success fee” the insipid member for Wentworth would get for pushing this legislation through?

    A massive financial result for those trading in the fresh air market.

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  • #
    Anne-Kit Littler

    Well, the latest news from Canberra is that Turnbull will not go quietly.

    It looks like a battle between Turnbull and Abbott.

    00

  • #

    I agree I think the Liberals have to stand up and fight

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  • #
    Bill Sulcs

    Joanne,

    I’m pleased to see that you have recognized these issues for what they really are,a grab for your dollars. The last thing that this world needs is another form of derivative trading. I think we are all aware of the type of damage these financial instruments are capable of causing and are largely responsible for the present GFC. Keep up the good work.

    Regards, Bill

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  • #

    Rod, when I said we in the West should secede, I was being parochial – I meant Western Australia. We are a third of Australia, we provide proportionately more in income than the rest and frankly if the federal government sold us to GoldMan then it’s time to be UNfederated.

    West Australians already voted in a referendum to secede in the 1930′s.

    If I was President of WA I would welcome refugees from carbon-limited-cartels of bureaucrats and bankers. Come live here!

    I’m hoping that it doesn’t come to that of course. But heck, that’s plan Z when all else fails. :-)

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  • #

    Are there any sympathetic people flying from Perth to the East (especially Sydney or Melbourne) later this week? If anyone knows someone who might be able to help us get some handbooks across the country, I’ll arrange pick-ups and drop-offs, so there is as little inconvenience as possible.
    Version II will be printed on Weds Afternoon.

    Email me joanne AT joannenova.com.au. Thanks!

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  • #
    Matty

    The likelihood of a pre-Copenhagen vote right now is very low – that’s a victory for us. Apparently the 1st hour in the senate today was spent debating long they should spend debating! The post-Copenhagen environment will be quite different to this too, even without climategate slowly fomenting away and Rudd was always wary of that I reckon. He will be very pissed, ditto Wong, Combet, Gillard. Oh well.

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  • #
    MattB

    Nah Matty – with the opposition shattered Rudd will be happy as larry to rock up and say “I did my best”.

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  • #
    MattB

    ABD breaking news headline… Libs to be given a conscience vote on ETS if Hockey wins leadership… ooohh.

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  • #
    MattB

    sorry ABC…

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  • #
    Steve Schapel

    Matty,

    I am finding it extremely difficult to get a sense of what might happen at Copenhagen, and of what the post-Copenhagen environment might be like. I know, of course, what my hope is, but that may not be realistic.

    In the meantime, I have just this minute read a comment on another blog, from an unsceptic who feels any ETS delay will be a good thing, because the “current climate denial hysteria will have passed”. LOL!! He thinks we’re going away!

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  • #
    MattB

    An interesting perspective from The Australian of all places:
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/a-good-deal-so-cool-the-hot-air/story-e6frg71x-1225805135321

    “Come next month, as the world negotiates some form of agreement about greenhouse reductions, it is absurd to think, as some in the Coalition appear to do, that we can stand aloof. Healthy scepticism is one thing. Risking Australia doing nothing in the face of international consensus is another. It shows bad judgment.”

    does not say whose opinion though just an “opinion piece”.

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  • #
    Jeff

    A question I have asked about the context of the ETS/CPRS legislation, to Senator Barnaby Joyce, was that IF passed, can the terms of the legislation be varied?
    The answer was ‘Yes it can be varied ‘ as parts of this legislation is regulatory, it can be varied by executive order – the signature of the appropriate minister would suffice.It would not have to pass the scrutiny of the both houses of Parliament.

    I was of course admonished for even suggesting the CPRS legislation passing the Senate.
    I have also asked the same question on Sen. Joyce’s website, and got a similar answer, also have seen it written on another National party website (probably Sen Ron Boswell)
    So a scenario of – at the run up to the next Federal election, a deal with the Green Party to adjust the carbon reduction amount to say – 40% or more (and if you read Sen Christine Milne’s statements on the Australian Greens web pages , you would see their ambitions) – this could be traded for electoral support.
    I’ll agree with Barnaby Joyce’s words – No, No, No, No !!!

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  • #
    Matty

    RE: #49 Steve – Post Copenhagen, what to expect??

    This is why I’m optimistic

    A member of my immediate family is the editor of the South China Morning Post, and a fluent speaker with 20 years in the region. He describes the idea of China scarificing living standard at the behest of a bunch of rich white europeans as comedy. They are burning 2.1 billion tonnes of coal a year and plan to be burning 3.9 by 2030. They have enough to keep that up for another 300 years, and will, unless something cheaper comes along. Also, many of them will freeze to death if they actually stop. A chinese person emits one ninth of the CO2 as an Australian, an Indian one fourteenth which is why they have invented this concept of “CO2 efficiency”. They are preparing to lead the world on CO2 efficiency, not reduction, just that our press are still in disneyland.

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  • #
    Jeff

    Steve Schapel,
    Have you downloaded the 181 page draft Copenhagen Climate Treaty from “Watt’s Up With That” website at:
    http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/un-fccc-copenhagen-2009.pdf
    Takes a little while to download this pdf.

    Would also help if you had seen Lord Christopher Monckton’s video (is on Youtube).
    Answers a lot of questions you really didn’t want to know the answers too.

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  • #
    MattB

    Matty if China leads the world in efficiency then what more could you ask? It is the skeptical right that tends to say china needs to reduce as well… I certainly encourace China to increase emissions. I’ll bet $1000 with the 1st taker that China’s per capita emissions are lower than Australia’s in 2030.

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  • #
    Matty

    RE: #49

    Steve

    Denial hysteria go away? Steven Fielding (Senator) is calling for a royal commission into the science. Wouldn’t that be good.

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  • #
    Matty

    RE: #54 – MattB

    China’s chief climatologist was recently quoted as saying “we’ve had warmer periods in our history than the present”. He is referring to the MWP, and that makes him a sceptic, so you can imagine the advice the govt is actually getting. I’m not saying China should be making cuts for a minute, but it is correct to say that carbon trading without China/India is a joke.

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  • #
    MattB

    Maybe it is maybe it isnt. THose countried could agree to targets but choose not to be a part of a trading system. Last I read China had agreed to head in to Copenhagen agreeing to significant efficiency improvement.

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  • #
    Fittler

    I have emailed copies of both client skeptics handbooks to them earlier this afternoon although will probably too lazy to print them out.

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  • #
    Louis Hissink

    Jo,

    Turnbull’s motives might be understood if we go back to England during the close of the 19th and start of the 20th centuries. The UK Liberal party then was truly liberal until the Fabians infiltrated it, as discussed with citations on http://www.keynesatharbard.org

    I suspect the Liberal Party of Australia as also been white-anted by this mob, though as a former branch secretary and privy to other goings on, crass stupidity is also a likely contender for the present imbroglio.

    As Piers Akerman said on Alan Jones today, Canberra and the ACT seem like an alien planet – they are seriously disconnected from the Australian public, and the MSM are as disconnected as Bernard Goldbery wrote in his two controversial books about the American MSM – Bias, and Arrogance.

    These people live in their publicly funded world and think this is normal while we are the barbarians.

    Piers also pointed out that Climategate is front page news in Europe and the US but here?????

    Off to Borroloola tomorrow from Katherine where I am typing this.

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  • #
    Steve Schapel

    Louis (#59): “Climategate is front page news in Europe and the US”

    That was not my understanding. Only in isolated pockets anyway.

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  • #
    Steve Schapel

    Jeff (#53)…

    Not sure which video specifically you are referring to, but I invested an hour yesterday listening to the 5 part Monckton interview beginning here. Well worth the effort.

    One thing he suggested was the formation of an international political party – The Freedom Party. Cool idea.

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    Tel

    My gut feeling on China is that they have no particular interest in trying to stop Global Warming. I doubt they believe it is a big issue, and even if it was a big issue they would just blame the USA without feeling they have any particular responsibility. China’s policies are oriented around China for the most part, and they aren’t in the game of leading world crusades or heroically setting examples on matters of principle.

    I do believe that the Chinese are thinking long and hard about energy independence and where their oil is going to come from for the next century. If they can make efficiency improvements and get a few pats on the back from the international community then they will see that as worthwhile (maybe the international community will look away from their human rights record).

    Once they have decided that efficiency improvements are necessary, they merely tell everyone to be more efficient for the good of the nation and then wait 12 months and ask about to see what has been achieved. I’m sure that when the officials come round to ask how those state objectives are going, they will discover that yes indeed they have been achieved, at every level, and in some cases a little bit extra. Amazing how that always happens. What a well managed country!

    They solved their recession problems in much the same manner — declare it over then ask around to see who would disagree.

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    Steve Schapel

    Tel (#63),

    Thanks for those thoughts. Very interesting, and I am sure that cultural differences have been under-estimated by many.

    I wonder what the Chinese and Indians really think about the tendency to mass hysteria being displayed by the loopy West.

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    Matty

    RE:Steve #63

    I read somewhere that during the L’Aquila conference a few months back, India’s environment minister basically told Hillary Clinton that “western science was wrong”. Said retreating glaciers have been doing so for over 200 years, and some were advancing, no anthropogenic signal. Beneath the diplomacy they must think we are mad

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    allen mcmahon

    Matt
    Considering that the majority of China’s population are rural farmers with no access and no likelihood of access to power in the near future its a sucker bet. Fast developing economies such as China, India and Brazil have made comforting noises but will commit to nothing.
    China has said that any initiatives they take will not be subject to external audit. They have kindly consented to accept technology to help green their development provided it is free and with no conditions.
    Anyway we need them to buy our coal with exports forecast to increase 40% by 2020. Is seems contradictory for Rudd to demand climate action while merrily exporting emissions but I am sure that he is doing it for the planet, our children our grandchildren and not a $120 billion tax grab.
    Little did Thatcher know what hell she was going to unleash when she used the spectra of AGW to break the power of the coal unions in the UK.

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    Matty

    RE: #66 Allen

    Roger that. Notice then, the totally false consciousness that has taken hold of our journalists. If they were interested in doing their job they would mention this stuff, but no. Instead they choose an alternate scenario where they talk up the prospects. Pessimism is frowned on, even if justified. Paul Kelly has said he thinks there will be an agreement. Translation: I seriously hope there is one and I won’t write anything unconstructive, even if it is a dead duck. It provides cover for Rudd/Wong to work their rubbish.

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    Rod Smith

    Joanne: Rod, when I said we in the West should secede, I was being parochial –

    And I was being a bit smart-aleck at a very inappropriate time. I apologize.

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    Btok

    Attention, American and Canadian citizens we are so close to losing our Sovereignty and our Freedom, is barely hanging by a thread! Make your voice and your rights known, as you are the boss not the politicans you voted into power!
    Time is getting short and it is coming down to the fact, that soon ( December 7 to December 18 ) I will have to pray to the good Lord to maintain our freedoms and that God will not allow our leaders to sign the Copenhagen Treaty, which will take away our liberties, let go and let God, this being a challenge to our Lord and Saviour? However, while there is still time to prevent the loss of a lifetime, perhaps loss of life it’s self – I will do what I am able to fight for our freedoms! The whole Climate Change agenda is a proven fraud and racketeering, but the United Nations and Globalist governments don’t care as that is just the excuse instrument they have used to ensnare us, they are going to try to push it through anyway! Has everybody out there become a tree hugger? The tree will be standing 100 years from now, but will you be looking at the tree, from inside the fence of a Concentration Camp? Anyone out there want to fight to maintain their freedom anymore? Please do all you can to preserve freedom in North America!

    Check out what Government is doing behind your back at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

    Canadians: To request that PM Harper doesn’t sign the Copenhagen Treaty, thereby causing
    Canadians to lose their Sovereignty and Freedom, email the PM at: pm@pm.gc.ca

    Any lawyers want to help out by filing this Copenhagen Treaty, be classified as an illegal Treaty, in order to, help save Freedom in North America? ( Unlimited Promotion Opportunity Here For a Law firm to Gain a favorable high profile credibility! )

    Protest the inaccuracy and Fraud of Climate change measurements that are going to be used in the Copenhagen Treaty: http://www.gopetition.com/online/32485.html

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