Chronicling the collapse of the Big-Government-made EV bubble
In today’s EV obituary column, Elon Musk has dropped a bombshell. Two months after Telsa chargers became the industry standard (which promised to save the other car makers) his profits fell, and he’s fired the entire EV charging team overnight. Hertz, meanwhile, has realized that dumping 20,000 electric cars in January was not enough, and it has to offload another 10,000 electric cars, which now amounts to half its EV fleet. And then comes the news that there might be a secondhand “timebomb” coming at the eight year mark when most EV battery warranties run out and cars will become “impossible to sell”.
As if that’s not enough, this week the fire and rescue experts in NSW are warning in the politest possible way, that they might have to do a “tactical disengagement” of a car accident victim, which means leaving them to die in an EV fire if the battery looks likely to explode. They say that first responders need more training, as if this can be solved with a certificate, but the dark truth is that they’re talking about training the firemen and the truck drivers to recognize when they have to abandon the rescue.
EV crash victims could be left to die in battery fires without training for responders, inquiry told
Jennifer Dudley-Nicholson, The Driven
The NSW government’s Electric and Hybrid Vehicle Batteries Inquiry heard testimony from fire and rescue services, paramedics, the Motor Traders’ Association, and TAFE on Tuesday in its second public hearing.
In the most serious incidents, firefighters said crews could be forced to abandon rescues or crudely rescue passengers from vehicles, and were being left “flying blind” at battery fires.
VRA Rescue NSW Commissioner Brenton Charlton told the inquiry worse outcomes were also possible, including battery explosions in which a rescue operation would put emergency workers at risk.
“We need to prepare ourselves and our volunteers… for the point in time we have to do a tactical disengagement, meaning if someone’s trapped and it does high order (explode) you might not be able to do anything,” he said.
“That will be a tragic, horrible thing to take part in.”
Just like that, Elon Musk fired the whole Tesla EV charging team, throwing the industry into chaos because Tesla network is the best by far and the bedrock of the so called “transition”. Tesla had agreed to open its charging network to other EV makers only recently, and Joe Biden was delighted. Tesla is getting subsidies to expand it’s North American Charging Standard (NACS) system. But this move has shaken the whole industry.
Tesla layoffs shake confidence in the EV-charging future
By David Ferris, E&E News
In a single stroke, CEO Elon Musk called his company’s vaunted charging reliability into question when he laid off most or all of Tesla’s Supercharger team, the people who made Tesla the envy of the EV industry. The network they built is bigger, faster, smarter and more reliable than any other company’s — and has become the linchpin of the auto industry’s plan to persuade millions of Americans to buy EVs and turn the tide on climate change.
“It feels like the rug just got pulled out from under a lot of the industry alignment that has been built in the last 12 months,” said Matt Teske, an industry veteran and CEO of Chargeway, an EV-charging software platform. “And leaves us on shaky ground.”
In 2022, as traditional automakers finally started delivering a substantial number of EVs to the roadways, they ran into a problem. Their drivers couldn’t use Tesla’s chargers, because they were meant only for Teslas. And the public networks had an array of reliability problems.
Ford was the first automaker to hit on the solution. Last spring, it struck a deal with Tesla to use its 12,000 U.S. charging stations and committed to building Tesla’s charging technology called the North American Charging Standard, or NACS, into its future vehicles.
Other automakers followed suit in short order. By February, Tesla’s NACS had become the industry standard, with virtually every automaker planning to redesign their charging systems to meet Tesla’s specifications.
UPDATE: Elon explains it’s just a change of pace:
Tesla still plans to grow the Supercharger network, just at a slower pace for new locations and more focus on 100% uptime and expansion of existing locations
And the crowd is baffled. People are mostly aghast…
The Hertz debacle truly might become an obituary
Originally Hertz was going to buy 100,000 wonder-cars which would be cheap to fix and popular with punters. But the future fleet only reached 60,000 cars and is now reversing back to 30,000 cars which tourists apparently don’t want to rent much, and which cost twice as much to repair.
Not surprisingly, it’s a financial ruin. Hertz shares have lost three quarters of their value since 2022.
The company was an $11 billion dollar company in 2021 when it announced the mass EV purchases — it is now a $1.4 billion dollar company.
Hertz drops more EVs
RENTAL car giant Hertz, has announced that it is selling off 10,000 more EVs than it planned in January when it set out to stem the tide of massive depreciation that hit its fleet of 60,000 EVs.
Rental car companies need to be able to sell off their ex-rentals for a reasonable sum, but just as Hertz realized it couldn’t afford to repair these cars, it also realized it couldn’t sell them either:
…the program came under stress when Tesla began discounting its cars last year.
This set off a tsunami of depreciation for existing Tesla owners; including Hertz, which had the biggest exposure of anyone. In turn, other EV makers followed suit with discounts and retained values for all EVs became a race to the bottom.
And as word spreads, possibly no one else will be able to sell them either. What is an 8 year old EV with no battery warranty worth? It’s pot luck whether it will keep going or suddenly need a £15,000 repair…
The used electric car timebomb – EVs could become impossible to sell on because battery guarantees won’t last – find out if you are affected
Money Mail can today reveal a timebomb looming in the second-hand market for electric vehicles (EVs).
Our investigation found that many EVs could become almost impossible to resell because of their limited battery life.
Experts said that the average EV battery guarantee lasts just eight years. After this time, the battery may lose power more quickly and so reduce mileage between charges.
In some cases, the cost of a replacement battery is as much as £40,000. For certain EVs, the cost of replacing the battery could be ten times the value of the vehicle itself on the second-hand market.
Yet geniuses in government still want to push us all into EV’s.
With uncanny timing the Australian Albanese government is about to launch emissions standards we don’t need to force people to buy a product they don’t want, in the hope, so they say, of stopping some storms.
The insanity would be hard to fathom if EV’s weren’t also the ideal tool for spying, data collection, law enforcement, and political control. Benefits that can launch a thousand political careers…
Thanks to Paul Homewood of Notalotofpeopleknowthat
Impossible to sell?? Based on history, you will find a market for used EVs in, say Cuba or maybe Haiti, so long as you’ll accept payment in poultry.
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Dead EVs should be able to be fitted with a generator set to bypass the battery and power the electric motor directly. Would require major hacking but I think Cuba and other low labour cost countries with semi-educated populations would be up to it.
250
I remember those old crank start cars.
Watch the whiplash.
140
They already make them David – they’re called HYBRIDS and Toyota are very successful at them and they’re also a very safe vehicle.
WITHOUT DOUBT – the future is in hybrid vehicles and Toyota is way ahead of the pack with these vehicles. Even though they do now sell a limited number of full EVs they saw the issues with EV manufacture way before every other EV manufacturer.
I don’t own a hybrid yet (my ICE still under warranty) but will maybe consider a hybrid but NEVER EVER an EV!
Cheers,
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Reminder of Toyota’s “1-6-90” rule
…The case for Hybrids ..
https://energyminute.ca/news/toyotas-1690-rule-the-case-for-hybrids/
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One thing about hybrids is that if the HV battery loses half its capacity with age, it doesn’t cut your range in half, that is still determined by the fuel tank.
It will still drive well as long as there is enough oomph in the HV battery to start the hybrid motor spinning to engage the ICE.
90
I should have mentioned that if the discharge rate drops too much it will be harder to overtake semis.
10
Semi’s, that’s what the other 7 cylinders are for!
40
Why complicate your life?
Just like solar panels and storage batteries, the hybrid adds another level of complexity at additional cost. The savings do not justify the expense, that is even with what is the unsustainable government interference in prices. Your reliable supply will remain the grid or in a hybrid the combustion engine (ICE). For the cost of a hybrid you could have an electric bike or golf type buggy for local travel and an ICE for travel.
140
Cuba? I think South Africa needs it most.
Dumping all those EV’s – I bet that Hertz.
No doubt we’ve all seen SerpentZA’s latest video on self destructing Chinese EV’s.
What a joke, and a global disaster in the making.
100
Are you referring to that well known Dutch artist, Hertz Van Rental?
100
A Tesla owner solved the problem of travelling long distances – his EV can now travel 2900 kms.
https://teslanorth.com/2022/10/12/modified-cordless-tesla-drives-1800-miles-without-charging-video/
70
Yes, that’s a great hack. No one the wiser. But converting to a real hybrid would be simple for Tesla themselves.
40
Errr ?…No .
1) it was constantly being “charged” by the generator…
2) he hadto stop and wait , several times, to allow the generator to catch up with putting more power to the pack
3) he had to stop several times to refuel the generator .
…..The only thing he achieved, was to avoid public EV charge stations !
20
Wouldn’t that be something! A third world Diesel hybrid. Take out 600kg of battery and replace it with 100kg of diesel and perhaps a 50kg battery. All the rest remains except the problem of software.
And that’s the entire problem. You can hack mechanical systms, But with few moving parts, someone would have to hack the Tesla software to make it all work. An insider could do it. Perhaps Tesla themselves would even cooperate. But who wants to support old cars?
However it raises the commercially very interesting question of whether the platform with a small battery and plus turbo charged three cylinder might not be a better car than many on the market.
I suspect Tesla could and likely will reinvent itself by necessity as a providing hybrids on the same platform with the motors, brakes, software, smarts. It could be done very quickly!
That would change the game overnight.
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You would have to rip out all the Tesla software and computer systems and replace it with open source or commercial offerings.
E.g.:
https://openinverter.org/wiki/Main_Page
https://www.open-electronics.org/the-perfect-open-source-controller-for-powerful-electric-motors/
https://www.ev-controls.com/
40
That pretty much describes every Hybrid on the market..
…except for the three cylinder turbo bit !
Mazda have a new twist with their Mazda MX-30 R-EV,..a hybrid with a small ROTARY DRIVEN Generator.
40
Cuba has a long history of repowering cars. All those 50s chrome US monsters with old Skoda engines.
10
Paul,
___I guess that would be paltry. 🙃
00
Mr. Siebert: Splendid!! Paltry indeed for the EV seller, but I’m guessing a few chickens are getting harder to find in Haiti, since Haitian gangsters figured out how Biden would react (not at all).
00
paul
“Based on history, you will find a market for used EVs in, say Cuba or maybe Haiti, so long as you’ll accept payment in poultry.”
And you can find a shipping company that’ll actually carry broken-down EVs, many of which may not self-combust …
And insurers who’ll insure the ship, cargo, crew, and freight …
Both of which need to take payment in poultry …
Auto
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Mr. Auto: Yes, the future looks bleak for the chickens. If Joe Biden is re-elected, I’ll start saying “looks bleak for us chickens.”
00
Anybody want to buy my used wind farm?? Special offer, I’ll throw in a hail damaged solar array free of charge.
360
Chuck in a bridge and consider it sold.
20
Looking forward to the next conversation with my daughter’s father-in-law next Christmas. He got visibly upset two Christmas’s ago when I told him that I would never consider an EV. He got almost paralytic with anger when told him that here, in Oz, they were mainly coal powered cars anyway. What fun.
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High profile EV charger supplier enters insolvency
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350263141/high-profile-ev-charger-supplier-enters-insolvency
Australian electric vehicle charger supplier Tritium supplies units to New Zealand’s largest EV charging operator, ChargeNet.
Hopium.
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Musk has just closed his charger department and sacked everyone. Only read the headlines so don’t know the details.
20
Did you read the header ?
30
Has the ejection seat option arrived yet?
220
Would have to be manually operated with big springs or explosives (maybe not!) as all power will be off.
50
This is BAD news.
You know why?
Because if we, the freedom-loving thinking community, won’t drive these things voluntarily, woke Leftist governments will make then compulsory.
At least until we get locked down in the free range prisons known as “15 Minute Cities” outside of Australia or “20 Minute Neighborhoods” in Australia.
https://intelligence.weforum.org/monitor/latest-knowledge/8d496bec33e74bd9b0e0eaf99b9a1f8f
https://www.planning.vic.gov.au/guides-and-resources/strategies-and-initiatives/20-minute-neighbourhoods
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Yes. I had that “discussion” with a CBA exec at a mining conference over 8 months ago. First he denied it (who’s a denier now, I gently asked), then admitted that it will happen. That’s critical because of the funding link.
No good hanging on to your ICE vehicle, as re-registration for those vehicles over 10 years old will be banned, as will repairing them.
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I need to replace my car soon and I’m thinking I might go for a diesel this time, my rationale being it will be a lot harder for governments to ban or restrict diesel than petrol, simply because Australia would literally grind to a halt if there was no diesel. Of course there are other ways our devious overlords could scupper my plan, but ATM it seems like the least-awful bet.
Another good thing about diesels is their superiority as tow vehicles. I’m getting quite alarmed by the rising cost of holiday accommodation, especially the holiday homes which we prefer, and I can forsee a time when camping/caravanning might be the only holiday I can afford.
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That is not their only advantage..
Chosen carefully, a modern diesel mated to a “good” auto gearbox, is a very pleasant rewarding car to drive. Low rpm torque and smooth gearchanges can give a limo like experience with economy and very long drive train life.
Sadly, recent legislation has limited our choices of vehicles in this category ( The last BZ Commodore/Opel turbo diesel was a pearl , quiet, fast (400+ Nm) and economical (<5.0 l/100km) ,
VW diesels are good, but their gbox is sus’ and customer service is rubbish.
Kia/ Hyundai do a nice reliable auto diesel too.
My ideal would be a diesel Plug in Hybrid, …but they are rare as tractor 5h1t !
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The Hyundai is on my radar, but their reputation for service support here in SEQ seems to be pretty poor.
As for driving characteristics, I much prefer diesels for their low-rpm torque, which makes driving much more relaxing.
I had a Seat Tdi in the UK and towed our caravan with it. It tackled hills like they weren’t there.
50
I had a diesel Range Rover Evoque for six years and loved it. I wanted to buy a new one and was informed Jaguar are only making petrol Range Rovers now, but I wanted a ICE before they were banned.
Have not sold the old diesel model yet, if any one is interested. Still immaculate and only 17,000 on the clock. Almost tempted to keep it myself.
30
That’s good Peter, but I am concerned at the amount of time and energy that goes into discussing this theoretical feature of the IPCCC’s concept of man made Global Warming.
True, it’s theoretically possible that CO2 can pick up ground origin PWIR but, being a component of the atmosphere, that newly energised CO2 molecule must immediately equilibrate with the atmosphere around it.
By about 30 meters AGL it’s all over and the CO2 molecule has no excess energy with which it can “heat” the atmosphere.
Later at about the freezing heights at which passenger jets cruise there may be a chance for the CO2 to offload to deep space.
None of that energy gets sprayed back towards earth. 🙂
You are probably aware of a lot of that and the Log effect is very logical but in reality CO2 cannot heat the atmosphere or cause it to be heated because that ground origin PWIR is going to get up there to deep space through the atmosphere whether there’s CO2 or not.
20
Sorry , this post was messed up by an outage.
Was meant to be attached to Peter’s other comment.
See
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/05/ev-hell-continues-crash-victims-might-have-to-be-left-to-die-hertz-dumps-another-10000-cars-tesla-sacks-whole-charging-team/#comment-2760669
30
6 years old , but only 17,000 on it ?..
Why sell ?
00
Caravan parks in popular tourism areas are becoming almost as expensive as a cheaper motel room for an ensuite caravan powered site.
00
That is if you dwell in urban agglomerates that have you captured. Just keep your powder dry in case.
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A video about extremely dangerous Chinese EVs.
Lots of fire footage.
https://youtu.be/8HpkDUWAKFM
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Why do I have the nagging feeling that EVs would not be being disparaged* in the press, if Mr. Musk, once the darling of climate saviors …
had not bought Twitter, and exposed the disturbing secret collusion with government entities?
And thus becoming an evil right-wing defender of Free Speech because in up-side down world Free Speech is “far-right”.
(*The disparagement was justified, but hardly mainstream.)
1) the climate crisis is fake
2)climate crisis proponents are willing destroy their own EV crusade for politics, ’cause that’s what the whole charade is about anyway
3) no narrative becomes mainstream until the Narrative Lords allow it
4) if the car rental corps weren’t being given cover to ditch EVs, they would be slow walking the bail if not ESG forcing us all into the the battery bombs by not offering a choice
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And the bottom line is they create more CO 2 emissions than their ICE counterpart.
Fraud or ignorance EVs are just another part of the scam.
250
Both.
-Fraud by the Elites.
-Ignorance of the useful idiots.
-Stupidity when the useful idiots are unwilling or unable to listen to comprehend reason or facts.
230
So, as this bubble predictably “collapses”, to whom is the “SPILLAGE” flowing?
The same applies to a LOT of (MOST?) corporate and GOVERNMENT schemes that “fall over”.
110
EVs are mostly coal-powered so as Australia continues to shut down its power stations, where’s the electricity to charge them going to come from anyway?
The only reason we have any electricity left at all is due to the shutdown of industry.
And here’s a thought. The pretend conservative faction of the Uniparty, the Liberals say they support nuclear power (but they still believe in the anthropogenic global warming fraud).
Do you really think wind/solar/battery subsidy harvesters are going to allow the delivery of cheaper electrical power than them? I didn’t think so…
250
“Do you really think wind/solar/battery subsidy harvesters are going to allow the delivery of cheaper electrical power than them?”
Sure they will. Once the appetite for solar etc drops off and a new scam emerges such as hydrogen power, they will happily admit that crappy old solar/wind technology doesn’t work, then move on to harvesting hydrogen/unicorn fart subsidies.
110
I’ve been watching and waiting for this scam to hit the crash point. I can’t think of anything that remotely equals this for government ineptitude and sheer lunacy as the whole EV thing.
At some time, the cost of this act of technical stupidity will be told, and no one is going to comprehend the sheer waste that the AGW and its associated scams like the EV stupidity, have put onto the world economy.
Tens of trillions so far?
Wars were cheaper.
310
Does Albo (and his muckers + staff) drive an EV?
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No.
EVs are not up to the task of driving PMs or other Elites. They don’t use them at WEF meetings in Davos either.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/why-the-australian-prime-minister-wont-be-in-an-electric-or-hybrid-car-anytime-soon/
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While a good old Ford LTD or Holden Statesman was good enough for previous PM’s the likes of Hawke and Howard, surely only a PM that knows he is despised for his traitorous actions feels the need for an armoured vehicle?
10
Labor PM Rudd was the first to be driven in an armoured BMW sedan with Protective Services following in a BMW SUV
00
A QLD Labor MP recently bragged that our state gov’t now owned ONE THOUSAND EVs. I’m sure the premier and cabinet actually use them from time to time, mostly for photo ops.
60
Just great for those trips deep into the Outback to meet constituents…but then again, they probably use executive jets.
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Who told you they visit outback constituents? 😉
110
Using roadhouse and hotel-motel-caravan park electricity from diesel generators.
00
Five hundred charged and ready to go, the rest on charge?
00
The collapse of the battery “powered” vehicle fiasco is not going to be Elon gated, it will probably all be over in a year or so.
Then, the question is, how will the massive pile of junk cars and dangerous batteries be recycled.
I can imagine that Elon might be able to get another “government subsidy” to cover that, plus administration costs.
No worries mate, our governments will fix it.
I really can’t understand why interest rates on my house loan have gone up so much recently. sarc
220
Old Teslas to be buried out of sight with used wind turbines, depleted solar panels and excess CO2.
80
It will all fit in The Great Artesian Waste Dump, so no real issue.
40
But, but won’t that pollute the GABasin worser than fracking?
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Maybe the ADF Taipan helicopter’s dump site, the fleet grounded after one crashed and later discovered to have been caused by a hot engine start because the software update to stop crew from performing that hot start was not installed in time, but others including from NZ had the software upgrade and performed normally.
So ask why was the ADF fleet grounded and replacement Blackhawks ordered leaving the ADF with no heavy lift capability helicopter of type?
Why was the request from Ukraine for those grounded Taipans turned down, Airbus offered to maintain them and indicated that many others were still flying safely.
And then consider the grounded Airbus Tiger attack helicopters and replacement Apaches on order.
00
“The insanity would be hard to fathom if EV’s weren’t also the ideal tool for spying, data collection, law enforcement, and political control. Benefits that can launch a thousand political careers…”
It’s good to see the insanity collapsing sooner rather than later.
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Yes.
And they are online 24/7. Excellent spying potential. In fact, the Chicomms know this and don’t allow EVs near supposed “sensitive” facilities. See https://www.wired.com/story/china-cars-surveillance-national-security/
The Government can decide where and when, or if, you can charge them, knowing that there is no convenient way to store electricity like you can liquid fuels. Thus they can restrict your range and locations you go.
Also, they have the potential to lock you inside and deliver you to a re-education facility if you are deemed guilty of wrongthhink.
150
Perverse I know but I couldn’t help laughing at the thought of my car delivering me to a re-education facility.
Interesting to me is that in a nearby country town google advises me to drive straight no fewer than 8 times in less than 1 km. After reading your comment I now wonder what I’m not supposed to see. Maybe it wants me to go to Caloundra rather than Beerwah. Happily for the time being my Mazda has no autodrive and I can just pull out the usb cable. Sometimes I am reminded of the stroppy future alexa in Stan Marsh’s car in South Park.
Oh dear. Once again my mind seems to be off on a frolic of its own. Good job I haven’t had the neural link installed. Yet!
71
You might enjoy the indigenous voiced GPS
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sqnjYpwo1h8
40
Look, over there, a Kangaroos.
How many are there, more.
00
True but shortsighted. Spying, data collection, law enforcement, and political control can also be achieved with gasoline or diesel cars.
10
Oh man, how I love this kind of news! Bring me more!
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EV Car Explosions WorldWide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLtkTp4GVuE
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Closer to home
https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/keep-an-eye-on-it-electric-vehicle-explodes-on-sunshine-coast/video/538ec14192eabe27a137a7b5b8b636a1
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“If you do buy one of these just make sure it doesn’t explode like one did very recently,” she said.
Watching will not keep it from going boom.
Best advice: Never own one and if your next-door neighbor gets one make sure your insurance is in force.
Or move.
40
Most of us knew of these EV problems years ago.
Bowen will continue with his madness. Eventually he will be forced to somehow blame others for his mess.
His cash splash with subsidies will not end well.
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Jo Nova for a Nobel Peace Prize, thank you!!
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AGAIN even the CSIRO tell us that the entire SH is a NET ZERO SINK and the NH is a NET ZERO SOURCE, so WHY do Aussies have to join their LUNACY?
And Aussies only emit 1% of global co2 emissions and SH about 7% , so what’s the point?
Of course data analyst Mark Mills has carefully checked and found that EVs save little in co2 emissions compared to ICE cars, so again what’s the point?
And what if increased co2 emissions since 1990 have little so called CC effect? Then what’s the point of any of the TRILLIONS of $ WASTED by the OECD countries over the last 34 years?
AGAIN look up the OWI Data source since 1990?
170
Do not forget child labour and EV Batteries
Last August, CEO Elon Musk and Tesla’s board encouraged shareholders to reject a proposal that would have required the company to provide detailed reporting on its materials sourcing practices and steps to ensure it was relying on child labor, even indirectly.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2023/02/08/battery-push-by-tesla-and-other-ev-makers-raises-child-labor-concerns/?sh=6d16ed1b7789
40
AGAIN here’s the CSIRO quote from their Tassie Cape Grim site. NH is a NET SOURCE of co2 and SH is a NET SINK.
“Seasonal variation”
“Carbon dioxide concentrations show seasonal variations (annual cycles) that vary according to global location and altitude. Several processes contribute to carbon dioxide annual cycles: for example, uptake and release of carbon dioxide by terrestrial plants and the oceans, and the transport of carbon dioxide around the globe from source regions (the Northern Hemisphere is a net source of carbon dioxide, the Southern Hemisphere a net sink)”.
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No, all CO2 is man made. Add more suds and repeat wash cycle.
30
Aus gov website to help you. Providing you accept CO2 is the only measure of pollution
https://www.greenvehicleguide.gov.au/
One for the misinformation/disinformation commissar.
If you click on news you’ll see there’s been no news since 2022.
And if you click on
https://www.greenvehicleguide.gov.au/pages/UnderstandingEmissions/LifecycleEmissions
you can see they completely ignore mining of the many minerals and manufacturing of the vehicle and it’ parts.
At least they admit it – “This website uses tailpipe emissions to rank vehicles. This is because vehicles with zero tailpipe emissions are capable of zero emissions from vehicle use. A petrol or diesel vehicle cannot produce zero emissions from vehicle use, as petrol and diesel fuels contain carbon.”
Simples if you lie sufficiently.
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AGAIN here’s the most important co2 emissions data and the source is OWI Data.
Since 1990 the NON OECD developing countries have added another 14 + BILLION tons of co2 emissions per year in 2022 compared to their annual emissions in 1990.
But the 2022 OECD co2 emissions per year are slightly LOWER than their 1990 co2 emissions.
So what’s the point when we know that India, China, Asia, Africa etc will be building 100s more coal power stations in the decades ahead?
Does the OECD really want to be that weak in the future and rely on TOXIC, UNRELIABLE, DILUTE
W & S while the NON OECD powers ahead with more RELIABLE BASE-LOAD ENERGY like COAL, GAS and NUCLEAR? Or is that part of their treasonous plan?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-country?country=OWID_WRL~Non-OECD+%28GCP%29~OECD+%28GCP%29
50
More karm is needed.
20
The co2 Coalition Scientist’s FACT 2 tells us that increasing co2 emissions has only a LAGARITHMIC EFFECT and every time we increase co2 emissions it has a LOWER warming effect.
The graph shows the co2 effect of the first 100 ppm and then the very rapid DOWNHILL slope until it reaches 1000 ppm.
Importantly they tell us this LOGARITHMIC EFFECT is verified science understood by all the Scientists.
https://co2coalition.org/facts/the-warming-effect-of-each-molecule-of-co2-declines-as-its-concentration-increases/
40
Sorry I spelt logarithmic wrong in second line, definitely log not lag. Bloody annoying.
60
I quite like the word lagarithmic…
80
I’d go with Lagerythmic = people who think they can dance after they have had a few
50
I think this is pretty common knowledge now among anyone who has spent 5 minutes looking at the actual science, rather than the SCIENCE(TM). There is only so much long wave radiation that the sun pumps into earth every day, and there is only so much capacity for greenhouse gasses to absorb and re-emit before the system balances out. In summary, the greenhouse effect is not dependent on the partial pressure of CO2 in the atmosphere. But congratulations to the socialists in marketing the second greatest scientific con of all time. They’ve sold ice cubes to eskimos*.
* eskimo is apparently now a banned racist word in MS spell checker.
81
Uber >”There is only so much long wave radiation that the sun pumps into earth every day, and there is only so much capacity for greenhouse gasses to absorb and re-emit before the system balances out.”
Short wave. The sun pumps short wave into the earth.
In the solar – earth (terrestrial) spectrum solar is termed “short” wave due to the (conventional) 280 – 4,000 nm wavelength band (0.28 – 4.0 microns).
Sunlight [solar] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunlight
Terrestrial spectrum is a longer wavelength band: 4000 – 1000000 nm (4 – 100 microns) by convention.
Outgoing [Terrestrial] longwave radiation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outgoing_longwave_radiation
Applies also to “back” radiation.
Note both bands are longer and actually overlap – hence the conventions.
Here’s the kicker: climate scientists, due to their own ignorance, would have everyone believe that infrared in the terrestrial spectrum (IR-C) has the same properties as infrared in the solar spectrum (IR-A/B) – it certainly does not.
Some even colour code terrestrial infrared as bright red (solar yellow) in their Earth’s Energy Budgets e.g. UCAR Education as if it is significant strength – it isn’t. Insipid is more like it.
Now see the electromagnetic spectrum:
Electromagnetic spectrum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum
Scroll down to the table: Class, Wave-length λ, Frequency f, Energy per photon E.
The energy-per-photon units in the solar spectrum are electron Volts (eV).
The energy-per-photon units in the terrestrial spectrum are milli electron Volts (meV).
This and the lack of penetration of water (10 microns eff.) is why terrestrial “back” radiation is NOT a surface heating agent as climate science asserts.
50
Sorry, poor wording.
10
The important thing to note is that it is a NEGATIVE LOGARITHMIC effect. Eventually the rising curve flattens out and each increment of CO2 has a reducing effect on trapping of infrared energy from the earth’s surface. There is now very little of the IR emissions left in CO2’s wavebands to be collected. I think is was Happer et al who have calculated that a doubling of CO2 from 400ppm to 800ppm will only result in a 0.33°C rise. By the time CO2 levels get to 800ppm (not in my lifetime) increasing CO2 will make no difference to temperature but lots of difference to plant life.
Bring it on.
100
See original reply here,
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/05/ev-hell-continues-crash-victims-might-have-to-be-left-to-die-hertz-dumps-another-10000-cars-tesla-sacks-whole-charging-team/#comment-2760685
20
‘Our investigation found that many EVs could become almost impossible to resell because of their limited battery life.’
Wow, those guys are really on top of things.
50
Time for one of those bracelets: In the event of an EV prang resulting in my probable death by lithium battery inferno I absolve responders of the responsibility of risking their lives attempting my rescue.
40
I would hope one the the police, if in attendance, would have the decency to shoot me.
10
It’s fairly safe to assume that the Supercharger network was costing Tesla money, but was a necessary cost centre to support sales of their luxury market vehicles.
Once vehicles from other manufacturers could use the same network, there was no reason to bear that cost.
Presumably, the existing stations will be retained and maintained, but any new sites will be Somebody Else’s Problem[TM].
40
Musk’s decision to “slow down’ the expansion of the Supercharger network is simply a ransom demand. Now that the network is seen as mission critical to further EV expansion, he has the automakers and governments by the short and curlies. He will get THEM to fund further expansion while maintaining control of the network.
80
If it’s no longer a selling point for the luxury car brand (see how many charging stations we have just for you), his options are essentially:
1/ Keep control and charge like a wounded bull for other brands
2/ Let somebody else build and operate them.
He would have learnt about the futility of option 1 from IBM’s attempt to control the PC market and their PS/2 bus.
50
You would also have to assume ( dangerous, I know ) that drivers will probably have to pay for charging at a Tesla charge site in the future. Particularly if they are a non Tesla brand BEV. At present I think Teslas charge for “free”. The poop will very quickly hit the fan when all those drivers have to pay, probably at prices which actually reflect the generally high electricity prices.
60
Free charging disappeared some time ago
10
Another top interview from Andrew Bolt with Engineer and Physicist Mark Mills about EVs and all the extra Energy required for the future.
The Cloud is a massive new Energy storage system and has come straight out of left field recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XymJogShmmU&t=416s
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EVs are never going to be a big problem for electricity supply , But Data storage and tall building. HVAC systems certainly will be .
A single Data center can require 500+MW , and there are many currently being built with more in planning.
50
Jo,
Spelling quibble: mixing guarantee into warranty. There’s no warrantee, and the plural is warranties.
20
… and there’s me worried about the correct use of a comma before a capital letter and a mid-sentence colon.
All of which will lead others to consider the wisdom of beginning a comment with an elipsis.
Smile!
20
It is acceptable to start a sentence with an ellipsis.
10
… spaces between the dots or not?
10
Robert, thanks! My ability to not even see the spellchecker warning as I hybridized those words is 100%.
Forrest, is there a rule about capital letters and commas?
20
Jo, I have forgotten almost everything I know about grammar. As I recall the more prescriptive you try to be, the more exceptions pop up. And of course there is Shakespeare!
My reply was motivated more by my amusement when somebody makes a spelling error when criticizing others for spelling errors, or makes a grammatical error when criticizing others for grammatical errors, or inserts an oxford comma when criticizing others for errant punctuation.
Such things on an internet forum are a sure fire way to end up with egg on your face.
10
Forrest Gardener,
It is fun, and it happens often enough that there’s a great name for it: Muphry’s Law.
20
We all knew this was going to happen . Slowly then all of a sudden……same with “climate change” and covid vaccine issues . It can’t be hidden any more and the excreta is headed towards the rotor .
110
When they force “green hydrogen” vehicles onto us, we will have this BS all over again.
Rinse and repeat.
That is, unless conservatives and fellow rational thinkers fight back.
60
I for one am looking forward to the release of the Audi Hindenberg. I reckon it might go like a rocket!
130
I think we should transition to methane-powered vehicles because recharging at home should be possible. Even fast charge is feasible after a good curry and a few beers.
110
Or just bring back LPG conversions, !
Or, CNG which can easily be refuled at home from cheap mains gas (if you are still allowed it )
These are only prevented by petty government legislation to preserve tax income from petrol and diesel.
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[…] By Jo Nova […]
10
Victoria’s CCCP connection has retired and along with him goes Parliamentary and off-shore wind power. They have pulled back on the bidding process due to the lack of bidders. There was likely to be only one. No prizes for guessing who that was going to be. The Vic DOJ has also declined to charge their Health Dept. for the death of 800 mostly aging citizens during covid due to a technicality. This place must surely be the most corrupt and corrupted Australian State.
110
There’s now 2 Tesla charging sites in my regional Victorian city. The second was installed about 12 months ago in the carpark of my closest shopping centre which I visit maybe 3 times a week. At best I’ve only ever seen 1 Tesla being charged there on any given day. But as the shopping centre is now close to an ever growing nearby new suburb the carpark is very often full. So, lately I’ve seen normal vehicles (ICE) parked in the Tesla bays because there’s nowhere else. In other words, the 2nd Tesla charging site wasn’t really needed and its now situated in the wrong place. The whole rush in the needless transition to Net Zero was never warranted because its led to extremely poor outcomes. If 10 years ago someone sensible in power (sarc) had said we’re going to transition to a lower hydrocarbon fuel dependent society but we’ll complete it over a 50 year time period I think most people would have said OK.
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The unused charging stations were probably installed for the purpose of harvesting taxpayer-funded subsidies.
https://www.energy.vic.gov.au/grants/destination-charging-across-victoria-program
50
Ye gad! Can Victorian stuff things up or what? Labor incompetent ideologues run by unions. Public service basically lazy, inept and overpaid. Opposition parties totally missing in action.
40
I have long said that we will NEVER satisfy progressives by giving in to their demands. All they will do is raise the bar with new demands. In that vein, I just saw a video of a “climate protester” disrupting a motor race by gluing his hand to the track surface. The thing that caught my attention was the cars on the grid, which were those awful bloody electric ‘Formula E’ things, a category that the ruling body of motor sport (FIA) introduced to appease the environmentals. Fail. You CAN’T appease them because protesting is the objective, not supporting the cause.
The officials/security did the right thing. Instead of standing around looking concerned, they just dragged him away, presumably minus some skin, poor thing. As Sergeant Major Williams would say, “Oh dear, how sad, never mind!”
50
Yet, Elon Musk visited China, and will get superchargers from them, along with improvements to the self driving algorithms, and, of course access to the biggest market in the world
18
Meanwhile, in the real world….
EVs are less likely to catch fire than internal combustion vehicles.
EVs are becoming cheaper and cheaper to make so existing EVs are depreciating more quickly.
Tesla tried to create a monopoly in charging stations for just their cars, but public and communal charging stations make more sense.
Actively cooled batteries where charge is maintained between 20 – 80% don’t materially degrade over time. Passively cooled batteries do, e.g. those in Nissan Leafs and most PHEV hybrids.
024
are less likely to catch fire than internal combustion vehicles.
60
Global motor vehicle production has grown from around 60 million per annum in 2000 and is now approaching 100 million per annum
Most of this growth has been in ICE vehicles, especially in the developing world.
Bajaj Qute is the cheapest car in India at present. It starts at INR 3.60 lakh (around A$6,600) – seen many EVs for this money?.
https://www.zigwheels.com/bajaj-cars/re60
https://www.statista.com/statistics/262747/worldwide-automobile-production-since-2000/
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You can put out a fire in an internal combustion vehicle. (and no one believes in my concept of rapid discharge)
EVs are more and more subsidized and not paying their share of road taxes.
No one ever had to pay for petrol stations.
No one should.
Frozen batteries don’t work and cannot be charged. And that is reality for much of the world’s population.
Cabin heating is not free with electric cars, critical in climates which can reach -40C/-40F regularly and -20C generally.
And they are a parasitic load on domestic electricity grids which cannot cope with out major investment by everyone else.
The list is endless.
The novelty is over.
The manufactured price is not dropping despite China.
The retail price will crash completely.
The current cars are not saleable except at a loss.
Used cars will not be saleable or repairable.
And there is not enough copper in the world to make the numbers required.
But the technologies they pioneered will live on in long range hybrids and mild hybrids, making for cheaper, better, simpler, lighter and generally faster cars which can generate zero exhaust when required in crowded areas.
140
Elon Musk’s gamble did not pay off, despite making him the world’s richest man.
After 21 years of Tesla, the big failure was that the battery technology simply did not advance as fast as other electronic technologies and
has hit a wall. And not a Powerwall.
The energy density of remarkable lithium batteries is still just too low, a tenth of chemical density.
A 600kg battery has only the same power as a 60kg of petrol which on average only weighs 30kg for the same range and performance.
And so internally complex that the risk of fire has grown. Especially when you add traffic accidents, something that most battery
operated devices do not experience. And even small batteries have burned down a lot of houses. We may get to the point where battery
cars are not insurable especially with full third party vicarious liability where the insurer is liable for say a building, a ferry or car park or row of cars or a few houses.
100
Because EVs are much heavier than ICEs at a similar size they are more dangerous if they crash into another ICE or EV (or pedestrian).
EVs might also be driven faster given their higher rates of acceleration
Kinetic energy is directly proportional to the mass of the object and to the square of its velocity: K.E. = 1/2 m v2
50
It makes heavier cars much safer for the occupants, which is utterly unfair.
With conservation of momentum the car which weighs twice as much has a quarter of the accident in terms of deceleration and that is what causes damage, the collision of the human with the interior of the car.
A head on at equal speeds means the heavier car with twice the momentum just slows to a third of its speed V/3 where the lighter car changes from +V to going backwards -V/3 or 4V/3, so 4x the deceleration and F=Ma, 4 times the decleration or impact force on the occupants. Seat belts at the least. Car parts at the worst. Snapping necks where head rests don’t help. It’s utterly unfair.
I think intrinsically it’s why parents want 4WD trucks to transport kids but nothing in crunching power compares to a 3 ton electric 4WD.
30
Maybe Chinese manufacturers considered that when they chose the brand Tank?
00
Alternatively,
Elon Musk’s gamble did
notpay off,despitemaking him the world’s richest man.Mr. Musk seems to have designs on becoming the real world D. D. Harriman (Heinlein’s “The Man Who Sold the Moon”)
30
Yes, agreed. But he doesn’t want to see it collapse. Chinese competition is one possibility, which is why he just shirt fronted India and went to China. China intend to wipe everyone out industrially, including Elon Musk, but they need him for now. And he needs their low costs or face being wiped out.
However he may have already retreated to a Hybrid solution, which is why he just canned his entire power supply business, which has stunned the market and his own employees. His was the leading technology, now in the trash. And that needs explanation.
30
>”Meanwhile, in the real world….”
Disney, or La La land?
>Tesla tried to create a monopoly in charging stations for just their cars”
They were the only ones in the game initially so obviously they had to create their own standard that you refer to as a “monopoly”.
But what Tesla charging station monopoly now? Tesla’s standard de-facto became the North American Charging Standard (NACS) and is now open to all other manufacturers.
From Wiki (and see post):
Charging infrastructure is simply not a profitable business – that is the reason Musk dumped it. Tritium, a once $billion Australian EV charger supplier company including to NZs Chargenet, has also gone belly up (see comment #4).
There’s just no profit in it. “Public and communal” stations are a laughable proposition – what support (and who) when the station fails or needs maintenance? who pays for it? why does reliability suddenly improve?
These are the non-profitable issues Tritium ran into.
>”EVs are becoming cheaper and cheaper to make so existing EVs are depreciating more quickly”
Maybe read the post and the Hertz experience.
Also, depreciation and unsaleable are entirely different concepts.
40
>” Tritium, a once $billion Australian EV charger supplier company including to NZs Chargenet, has also gone belly up”
ChargeNet has received substantial govt subsidy for at least one project:
Sorry, “investment” not subsidy.
They have raised $millions for a huge rollout but they are only building their network – long term operation will tell.
Tesla built their network only to dump the business after operation wasn’t a cash cow but was a cash burner.
ChargeNet blurb 1 May 2024:
EV sales plummeted from 1 in 4 to 1 in 26 in January 2024.
Sure there’s a demand when there’s no network but once a network is established how much demand growth when EV sales are tanking?
And will that ethereal demand growth even cover the initial investment, let alone ongoing operation ?
20
Simon, is there a single study on EV/ICE fires that looks at similar age cars driven similar distances, or are we comparing old workhorse vehicles that drive thousands of a miles with new cars that are show ponies in the inner city?
I’m sure you would never rely on obvious sampling bias and reports from vested interests.
170
Jo,
The data is manipulated.
An example:
We write a fire report, lets say for the incident where an Ev recently caught fire in a Sydney airport carpark.
Ok, we report the losses and cause. The fire report will state 1 EV lost, 5 ice vehicles lost, due to fire.
We will include in the report, that an EV battery initiated the fire.
Reporters, Gov depts and agencies such as Ev firesafe review the loss figures….. and disregard the initial ignition point. It is easier.
So, those that have an agenda (or are too lazy to properly research), will say “Ice vehicles are 5x likely to catch fire.
Which is in my professional opinion, not only misleading but an outright lie.
120
If the report disregards the source of ignition … then a stolen car that’s torched on the side of a back road will count as “ICE vehicle catches fire”.
00
Simon trying comment about the “real world” ? Excellent
70
Meanwhile, in the real world….
We have the environmental destruction caused by lithium mining. According to mining-technology.com “The indigenous people of South America are negatively impacted by lithium mining, and the practice has driven hundreds off the land that they once called home.” ” Sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide used in lithium extraction penetrate the soil and water, poisoning ecosystems and endangering species. Research from the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society shows that two flamingo species in Chile are threatened because of lithium mining.” “Deforestation, habitat destruction and water pollution further exacerbate the ecological toll. The delicate balance of nature is disrupted, which leaves long-lasting damage that takes generations to heal. The carbon dioxide and other greenhouse emissions that come with the process of lithium mining, extraction and overall production are worse for the climate than the production of fossil fuel-powered vehicles.” Not to mention the child labor exploitation, modern slavery and 2000 people a year who die in the cobalt mines in the Congo – Cobalt Red by Siddharth Kara British Academy Global Professor and an Associate Professor of Human Trafficking and Modern Slavery at Nottingham University. Yup, clean, green vehicles alright.
30
Meanwhile, in the real world….
https://www.thenationalnews.com/business/2023/03/21/ “For many electric vehicles, there is no way to repair or assess even slightly damaged battery packs after accidents, forcing insurance companies to write off cars with only a few kilometres on the clock — leading to higher premiums and undercutting gains from going electric.” “Those battery packs are now piling up in scrapyards in some countries, a previously unreported and expensive gap in what was supposed to be a “circular economy”.
“We’re buying electric cars for sustainability reasons,” said Matthew Avery, research director at automotive risk intelligence company Thatcham Research. “But an EV isn’t very sustainable if you’ve got to throw the battery away after a minor collision.”
“At Synetiq, the UK’s largest salvage company, head of operations Michael Hill said that over the past 12 months the number of EVs in the isolation bay — where they must be checked to avoid fire risk — at the firm’s Doncaster yard had soared from perhaps a dozen every three days to up to 20 per day.”
40
Active cooling? Simple EVs are becoming more complex.
EVs becoming less exensive? Chinese loss leader. Exploiting a monopoly on crucial materials.
It only takes a few nightmare experiences of ‘range anxiety’ to yearn for the security of liquid fuel backup.
Range anxiety is a fundamental problem with EVs. Having more EVs on the road will make this worse due to a surge in demand at moments of ‘battery charging crisis’.
Moreover, people undersetimate the teething problems of rapidly evolving tecnology. Who is going to bother supporting an 8 year old EV? It gets much harder to contine to function with failing optional features. Reality approaches upgrading a computer.
Rapidly evolving technology and unrepairable products are going to make EVs expensive. Expect rapid depreciation and difficulty in maintaining used vehicles.
20
I can only guess that Tesla is losing money on the chargers big time- canning the entire team otherwise makes no sense to me since the fleet the company sells needs them.
40
Nope. Musk is just blackmailing the US government and other auto companies into paying for network expansion. I have no doubt that he will also manage to retain control of the Supercharger network while making another fortune in the process. You see, the problem with EV charging business models is the upfront costs, especially in less populated spots. The charging itself is no doubt VERY profitable but payback with insufficient users (yet?) could be many years. So forcing other schmucks to pay for the expansion is pure genius.
40
That seems to be what all the other manufacturers had in mind.
20
>”The charging itself is no doubt VERY profitable”
Why? They are basically just resellers/retailers.
They buy from wholesalers and onsell. Already in NZ there has been a restructure of pricing with the following result:
EV Public Charging: Stations, Prices, and Operators
https://evdb.nz/chargers
Prices vary wildly. Obviously a charger network will have at least one partnership with a supplier and that supplier may in turn be buying from multiple wholesaler/generators.
Example is ChargeNet (see #37.3.1 upthread). Supplier is ecotricity. ecotricity in turn buys from wind, hydro and solar generators. The energy has to be moved across the lines network which takes a toll (i.e. don’t forget fixed lines charges, distribution is a toll road). So ChargeNet is the 4th level profit taker:
ecotricity https://ecotricity.co.nz/
For home or business – “We provide plans to suit your business, with competitive pricing…”. ChargeNet is just another business account from ecotricity’s side (and the lines company’s side).
I’m not seeing the “VERY profitable” – where is it?
ChargeNet is building a 10 point charging station at Tauriko on the west side of Tauranga which has the worst traffic snarls in NZ so no-one will cross town to charge. The Tauriko hub will only serve a local commercial/residential area.
Just a matter of time before a disruptor moves in. That is what happened to petrol/diesel in Tauranga when Australian Gull moved in. Prices in Tauranga (fuel port city) were almost immediately the cheapest in NZ. Same is happening now with fertilizer. Only 2 NZ suppliers (one manufacturing at Port of Tga) but an Australian supplier is moving in to disrupt (and using redundant coal handling conveyors and hoppers at the port to do it).
Point is, profit is not guaranteed and EV charger companies are not immune from competition and in the worst case – disruptors.
30
>”don’t forget fixed lines charges, distribution is a toll road”
From lines company Powerco in NZ:
EV charging infrastructure
Connecting fast chargers to our network
https://www.powerco.co.nz/get-connected/ev-infrastructure
EV charging infrastructure cost indication next.
10
EV charging infrastructure cost indication.
https://www.powerco.co.nz/-/media/project/powerco/powerco-documents/get-connected/indicative-cost-for-ev-charging-infrastructure_final.pdf
That’s just to get connected. Ongoing annual service charge comes next:
Ok, so we’ve bought the land and developed it, ready to pay land tax (rates) on it. Installed all the 1 MV capital equipment at what cost? Got connected with a $176,000 connection fee, Ready to pay the ongoing annual $57,000 fixed service charge – great.
Now, where’s all our customers so we can start to pay all that off and maybe make a profit?
20
>”The [ChargeNet] Tauriko hub will only serve a local commercial/residential area.”
Forgot to say it is adjacent to the east-west state highway that enters/leaves Tauranga at Tauriko.
They would get a trickle of customers from that. Very little or none from local residents I’m guessing.
Commercial is a head scratcher. What employer wants his/her staff waiting for a charge and paying them an hourly rate to just wait. And why not charge at your own facility nearby anyway?
High value execs might be able to work in their vehicle while charging but they’re not making any headway to their destination.
McKinsey & Co did some head scratching for the US market:
Can public EV fast-charging stations be profitable in the United States?
October 5, 2023
https://www.mckinsey.com/features/mckinsey-center-for-future-mobility/our-insights/can-public-ev-fast-charging-stations-be-profitable-in-the-united-states
Topics:
The challenging economics of charge-point stations
Fast public charging-station economics without subsidies or credits
Fast public charging-station economics with subsidies and credits
Several levers will be required to achieve profitability
00
The challenging economics of charge-point stations (from McKinsey & Co)
While charge-point operators can follow multiple strategies for generating revenues, two business models are now most common (Exhibit 3):
Owner-operator. Under this model, the charge-point operator is responsible for all capital costs, including hardware and installation, and for all ongoing operations and maintenance. Owner-operators generate revenue by selling electricity and through other streams (for instance, incentives and energy credits). Currently, three companies—Electrify America, Evgo, and Tesla—have 80 percent of the market for public DCFC charging.
Solution providers (site-host owners, third-party operators). Under this model, the charge-point operator sells chargers to a site host, such as a grocery store or dealership, which bears the cost of hardware and installation. The site host also pays the operator an ongoing fee for operations and maintenance.
Illustrative EV Charging Station Models – Diagram
Regardless of business model, the up-front capital costs for fast charging stations are high. A 150 to 350kW DCFC charging unit can cost anywhere from $45,000 to over $100,000, and installation costs can range from $40,000 to over $150,000. Additionally, grid upgrade and integration costs can amount to millions, depending on the number of fast chargers installed at the location.
10
EV Harbour Ferry fast charging problematic too:
Will Auckland have the charging infrastructure for electric ferries?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/515840/will-auckland-have-the-charging-infrastructure-for-electric-ferries
Fullers 360 Chief Executive Mike Horne said electric was great for inner-harbour routes, such as the city to Devonport, but for longer travel – to Gulf Harbour for instance, hydrogen-powered boats were better.
10
For the record.
>”ChargeNet is building a 10 point charging station at Tauriko”
Firstly, “The new charging hub is jointly funded by ChargeNet and EECA, with co-funding from EECA’s Low Emission Transport Fund (LETF)” i.e. subsidized.
Installed capacity 750 kW (750 kVA @ Power Factor = 1).
3D rendering of ChargeNet’s planned Tauriko charging hub.
From,
ChargeNet to build 10-point charging hub in Tauriko
https://www.drivencarguide.co.nz/news/chargenet-to-build-10-point-charging-hub-in-tauriko/
That big green box in the middle of the graphic is probably a 750 kVA or 1 MVA transformer (I’m guessing 1 MVA given the cost below).
So between $258,420 (500 kVA) and $179,520 (1 MVA) one off connection charge paid to lines co Powerco.
And annual service fee (lines charge) of between $50,000 (500 kVA) and $57,000 (1 MVA).
Pretty sure there’s been some heroic assumptions of future demand for facilities like these – time will tell if they were correct. I’m doubtful. I see bailouts ahead.
10
No, he has seen the future. And it’s not pure electric. No need for all the chargers. A poor long term investment.
40
Hmm ? …so instead of everyone taking advantage of a common commercial utility (charger), each user buys their own for personal use only ?
….That sounds like the argument for electricity supply also ..Roof Top solar !
00
As for abandoning people in burning cars, I have never read of a Tesla exploding. Burning forever, yes, but they do not explode as petrol cars can, even if that is greatly exaggerated in the movies. There is no vapour to cause a massive blast.
Batteries burn by degrading the ones next to them and it can take days to release the equivalent of 80 litres of petrol in energy but it is anaerobic, so no blast. It also means you cannot stop it by using dirst, CO2, smothering.
Plastic explosive, all explosive is made from materials which convert instantly to huge volumes of gas. It’s this blast wave from rapid gas expansionwhich does the damage. Batteries do not work like this. Their energy is in a chemical reaction which does not release much gas. Maybe a bit of hydrogen, slowly.
30
G’day TdeF,
CO2 Lover at #17 above provided this link, about EVs exploding worldwide:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLtkTp4GVuE
Seems to me that while the batteries produce no gases while they’re working normally when they go into thermal overload they do produce gases which are both toxic and explosive if contained, as explained in the link. So while the battery may remain intact the vehicle is torn apart by the exploding gases.
Cheers
Dave B
50
Lithium batteries rely on an electrolite solution which generally are composed of Lithium salrs disolved in organic solvents.
It is those organic solvents whIch change to flamable gas when heated.
10
Thanks. Yes, that was an explosion. Despite the drama. Survivable, even if no one would want to be there. The doors opened in the first video. Firemen stepped back in the second. A real explosion would have blow the doors off and flattened or incinerated the firemen and thrown them many metres. They stayed on their feet.. I suspect that was a build up of hydrogen in the decay of the batteries. This is to be compared with detonating say 40 litres of petrol which would have been lethal in a blast radius of ten metres or more. The car would not exist. Just a smoking shell. No windows, no panels.
10
A battery is a high concentration of all the things needed to make heat … the same as a bomb.
Petrol is a high concentration of half the ingredients to make heat …and if you can deny it oxygen it cannot make heat.
30
A bomb is just a rapid expansion of air, a blast. Heat is not necessary really. The one used to bring down mountains is just oil and fertilizer. The energy comes from the oil and the oxygen from say the ammonium or potassium nitrate. Creation of vast quantities of gas creates a shockwave.
20
On the topic of exploding batteries. Some interesting study information embedded in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnKm9-S0_UY
10
A primary explosive might be needed to produce the heat and pressure for a high explosive detonation of a lithium battery.
00
There would be no need for anyone to worry about electric vehicles bursting into flames if only governments around the world would assure us that EVs are “safe and effective.”
30
This article is anti-EV biased and hides the very important context of global EV sales that were up +25% in Q1 2024:
In the first quarter, sales grew by about 25% compared with the same period in 2023 – similar to the growth rate seen in the same period a year earlier, but from a larger base. The number of electric cars sold globally in the first three months of this year is roughly equivalent to the number sold in all of 2020.
The conservative myth that used EVs are worthless after their battery warranty ends is not based on data and is most likely wrong.
Here is the US a used 2006 Tesla model 3 price holds a much higher percentage of the original cost compared with a 2006 NMW 3. Not even close despite the lowest Tesla model 3 used prices ever.
18
The IEA report that says EV sales are up is dependent on growth in China.
But thousands of their cars are lying in fields rotting.
The bleeding edge is radically different to what it was a year ago. Things were supposed to be going gangbusters on that exponential curve. Hertz have only just figured out they have to abandon their fleet as best as they can. That news will take a lot longer to filter through to Mom and Dad buyers and sellers.
90
Ask a car dealer about trade-in valuation and battery pack condition as recorded on the EV management system, as compared to the equivalent ICEV.
00
[…] journalist Jo Nova covered the story, which was first mentioned in the EV blog The Driven, and commented: “They say the first responders need more training as if this can be solved with a certificate, […]
10
[…] journalist Jo Nova covered the story, which was first mentioned in the EV blog The Driven, and commented: “They say the first responders need more training as if this can be solved with a certificate, […]
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[…] Jo Nova covered the story, which was first mentioned in the EV blog The Driven, and commented: “They say the first responders need more training as if this can be solved with a certificate, […]
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[…] Jo Nova reported on this story. mentioned for the first time in the electric car blog Guides, and comments: “They say first responders need more training because if this problem can be solved with […]
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[…] Jo Nova covered the story, which was first mentioned in the EV blog The Driven, and commented: “They say the first responders need more training as if this can be solved with a certificate, […]
00
[…] journalist Jo Nova covered the story, which was first mentioned in the EV blog The Driven, and commented: “They say the first responders need more training as if this can be solved with a certificate, […]
00
[…] journalist Jo Nova covered the story, which was first mentioned in the EV blog The Driven, and commented: “They say the first responders need more training as if this can be solved with a certificate, […]
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