MG ZS EV X | | Photo by Chanokchon
And you thought your last software crash was bad
Brian Morrison ended up a prisoner in his own new MG electric car that wouldn’t stop. He could steer, but the brakes didn’t work, and he couldn’t turn it off. At one point he threw the car keys into the police van driving beside him, which had come to help, but even that didn’t stop the motor. This was not meant to be a self-driving car.
Tragedy was averted this time because it was 10:30 at night, the road was empty and the police had time to stop it. But what if this fault occurred in normal traffic and the EV drove through a red light, or a pedestrian?
By Rory Tingle at The Daily Mail:
I was kidnapped by my runaway electric car
Terrified motorist, 53, reveals his new £30,000 MG ZS EV ‘began driving itself’ after suffering ‘catastrophic malfunction’ – forcing him to dial 999 and crash it into a police van to get it to stop
Brian Morrison, 53, claims he was heading home from work at around 10pm on Sunday when his new Chinese-made fully electric car began driving itself at 30mph.
‘I have mobility issues, so I couldn’t even jump out – I was completely trapped inside the car going at 30mph.
‘So eventually three police vehicles arrived and were driving in front of me and behind me.
Mr Morrison said: ‘After trying to shut the car down, my entire dashboard lit up with faults, and then it all went away after a second and just had a big red car symbol that said “drive safely, stop driving immediately” or something.
After the car was forcibly stopped it still launched itself forward if given the chance. The RAC mechanic plugged in his diagnostic machine and declared it had “pages of faults” and wasn’t game to turn the engine on.
Before we thank our lucky stars that it worked out OK, we have to ask: how do we know this hasn’t happened before? It was the first time the emergency call centre had dealt with this issue, but if the EV had crashed and killed the driver before they could call, would the accident investigation squad even look for software bugs, or would they just say “they ran the red light”?
David says: “Never trust a computer you can’t throw out the window”.*
Coming soon to electric cars:
Photo: Marcin Wichary
Imagine if we brought 100,000 two-ton vehicles from a foreign adversary…
h/t Dennis
*A quote from Steve Wozniak.
I am not sure the fact it was an electric car is relevant. I try to buy older cars or hire vehicles that are not top of the range, for the simple reason that many modern cars are far too clever for their own good. They are immensely complicated and the wiring looms are overloaded through having to carry out too many functions.
Add in a very complicated central electrical unit to control everything and complex software and, perhaps in this case, that Chinese cars are built down to a price to capture market share- ICE or EV-and this extreme example of what can go wrong occurs.
Relating specifically now to EVs, China is churning these things out and selling them ‘cheaply’ in order to buy market share, so I am sure we will see numerous breakdowns in future software, equipment, and battery related- but none as terrifying as this one I hope.
462
Throw the keys of an ICE vehicle out of the window and it will stop so very relevant
110
Not always true..!!
..modern “push button start” ice’s , only need the key fob present to start the engine.
If the key is thrown out of the window after the engine has started,…nothing will happen and the car can be driven until the engine is next stopped …..that can be hours and 100s of km later.
..(ask me how i know !)
101
Correct!
Don’t find out the hard way. Fobs ain’t cheap.
70
I forgot I didn’t have my fob in my pocket once. We drove out because my Lady had hers, I dropped her off and went to another shop. I had to get them to drive me back to pick up the fob. I now take more notice of symbols on the dash.
BTW This feature allows your car to be stolen at night if the fob is still reasonably close to the car. A cheap amplifier will connect it to the car and the thief can drive away in the car, onto a transporter and be interstate before you wake up. The moral of the story is to store the fob in a Faraday cage. 😀
80
The irony of these stupid key fobs is that people are now using physical restraints such as steering locks and gear lever locks.
50
So you didn’t send all your crims to the New World.
I seldom lock my car in a supermarket carpark because the immobiliser still works and everyone assumes we are all careful to lock it. 🙂
10
Or put in neutral if its manual.
31
Why would the brakes not work ?
I can possibly understand that an electric handbrake could be inoperative, but i would be shocked if ther was any electronic control to prevent the application of the brakes…being the primary safety feature on any vehicle.
81
My hybrid has electric brakes, power steering and airconditioning so they all work if the ICE shuts down while cruising. Works well.
20
Well the car was malfunctioning so anything may or may not be working or behaving sanely
You can over power the brakes with engine power e.g. doing a burnout, if you do it for long enough your brakes may go up in flames. High torque electric motors just enhance the effect I guess.
If I throw my keys out the window my engine will stop immediately when I remove them , unfortunately my steering will also be locked.
40
The trouble is that you have to go a long way back to avoid all the unnecessary crap in cars. I have a 2009 Ford with annoying seatbelt warning and door open warnings. One day I will find the bleeper as silence it. I can probably short the seatbelt switch but the door switch also controls the interior lights. I had a problem with the traction control keep coming in which was eventually traced to a faulty throttle pedal. Yes, it is an electronic one and a new one is yours for £265 from Ford – how much were throttle cables? I like driving my 2005 Ford van and there is no effing bleeper in the first place, no seatbelt warning and no door warning.
Is it Ford’s fault for all this crap? No. They are required to do these things by vehicle directives. Emissions has required the use of fuel injection – not that it is not an advance on carburettors – and that brings in engine management units that has ‘progressed’ to a huge array of sensors feeding into to a computer.
40
Jo asks how do we know this hasn’t happened before. I seem to remember there were several examples of Hackers hijacking expensive vehicles remotely through hackinng into the on board software. These mobile computers with rubber tyres must be very prone to further attacks, but whether the makers can design out problems is doubtful as they can’t do it on real computers.
290
Reminds me about not getting kidnapped in a London taxi.
Now they just catch fire. Lol
https://ask.okorder.com/questions/london-taxi-safety-automatic-door-locking_103271.html
60
Dr Who had an series similar to this when the cars took control and drove the drivers (now passengers) to their deaths in rivers or similar.
81
The only episode I can think of would be “Gridlock”, but your description isn’t quite right.
Die-hard Whovians will chime in.
20
ATMOS – modern Dr Who, not the real Dr Who from the 60s-80s.
10
A few years ago I got a Mazda 4×4 truck very cheap because of problems with the engine electronics. I solved the problems by building a new inlet manifold to use a normal carburetor, cutting out most of the electronics and simplifying the wiring loom. I used this for several years until the village changed the parking assignments which meant I had over a kilometer walk to the new parking. I sold it to a couple that had room to park it under their house. It finally failed its road worthy test last year because of rust in the body work from the road salt used during the winter higher up the mountains.
You can’t beat older cars for simplicity.
340
Yup, ICE just needs: Air, diesel fuel, compression, Or air, gasoline (nat gas, propane, LPG, alcohol…) compression, and spark, to run. Not getting rid of diesels with mechanical injector pumps, or gasoline cars with carbs.
30
I’ve got a 2019 Ford F150. It recently had an unexplained failure — seemed like the battery had been removed. Two of us, even with a power pack, couldn’t get any response. (Did I mention I was in the Ford dealer’s parking lot?) We got a 2nd mechanic to come, and lo, it started and everything worked. He said all we needed was to learn how to turn the key.
Mystery unsolved!
20
Probably the anti-theft lock out feature. The onboard computers were not recognizing the key, or the key was not sending the correct code. Then it was.
00
Come to think of it:if it was at a dealership there was problably several “anti-theft keys” broadcasting the incorrect code for your vehicle. Once the incorrect code was accidently detected the lock out feature was likely engaged, probably for a period of time, or until the correct code was detected.
10
Chinese EVs … Fun story above.
Australians likje their Chinese vehicles.Fair enough.
PLEASE READ … (NYT)
China Is Flooding the World With Cars
Especially …
The future is a Chinese EV, like it or lump it.
71
Mr. Raving: The future is a Chinese EV, until it isn’t. From what we’ve seen, the Chinese will make a very poor product, and right now they will flood the market with very poor EVs, which will make the future very short. Toyota is the only car maker with a realistic outlook on the future, USA makers will only be a shadow after they are “rescued” from EV losses.
321
Not familiar with Chinese cars in Canada. Remember the unflattering comments here in Canada about Japanese and Korean automobiles.
Almost bought a Lada once! Rivaled British cars with Lucas electrics.
https://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html
80
Interesting that car carrying ships are happy to carry cheap Chinese potential battery fires to the West, yet ferry companies are in the process of banning EVs because of that risk?????
170
If China is the answer it’s a silly question. The odds are stacking up against them. Don’t bet against NAFTA.
40
Saw Japanese cars outrun NAFTA; only joining the NAFTA manufacturing club to sell more vehicles in N. America. Expect the Chinese will do a global end run this time. The rest of the world won’t become competitive soon enough to remove the pressure of demand.
Ask yourself why the EU is scaling back EV requirements. Maybe they fear the competition. 170 new car carriers at 4,000 cars each, with multiple round trips every year. You do the math.
My concern is replacement parts and service. Not sure the Chinese have matured in those considerations.
Being Canadian, am well aware of Yankee trader tactics. Lived beside our American friend for most of my life. The alternate reality is a global trade war.
10
This time around, the Chinese won’t care. If America doesn’t want to buy their cars, they will sell them to the rest of the world. … Europe, Australia, Russia, Africa, Indonesia …
EV envy will make them a global hot commodity. No spontaneous combustion pun intended.
The West says it wants ‘green’ but NOT green Chinese cars? Going to get nasty.
00
Foreign adversary… Or terrorist hackers.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12591057/Terrorists-hack-driverless-cars-use-weapons-hijack-drones-drop-bombs-horrific-attacks-report-warns.html
60
Was the car called Christine?
60
Killdozer!
Predates the Stephen King novel
50
The Killdozer was also a real machine built by Marvin Heemeyer who had a dispute with local government in the US.
30
Reminds me about not being able to turn off some more modern diesels without popping the bonnet and accessing the emergency fuel cutoff.
70
At an incident we stop recalcitrant diesel engines with a CO2 fire extinguisher.
We direct the CO2 into the engines’ air intake. Unlike a cutoff, The intake is easy to find.
It is safe, quick and effective.
270
Before the fluorocarbon ban petrol tankers had BCF extinguishers which could be discharged direct into the inlet manifold for emergency stop. I guess it is CO2 now.
30
This “feature” of my previous diesel car concerned me quite a bit. I never had to use it, and I’m not exactly sure I knew which was the fuel cutoff either, but it seems like this might be something that should be accessible via a big red handle inside the cabin. Apparently it’s not just that it won’t shut off, but it will actually “run away” and rev higher and higher until it self-destructs. You have just a few seconds to open the hood, find the fuel cutoff, and kill it before it kills itself. Wtf?
10
The Emergency Pull button looks like one off an IBM 370 mainframe computer (circa 1972) where despite the label saying Pull, one had to Push it to make it work.
80
>one had to Push it to make it work
Or, with the cards I used, you had to Punch it to make it work.
10
IBM 029 key punch machine, 80 column Hollerith cards.
Yes, I’m older than dirt. Started out with machine code and chip specific assembly code.
People today have no idea how simplified their lives are.
Finding an error in a Watfour fortran compiler was a nightmare. The WatFive was a gift from heaven. At least it gave the line and error, instead of leaving one to figure out what happened.
30
What about the 026?
I could read 80 col cards by holding up to the light, inverted no problem.
The 1403 printer was a bullet-proof work of art, as was the System/3 (64k max).
Wish I had one.
20
Stop it you guys , I am getting all teary mmmmmmm 80 column cards
20
ASR33 teletypes with Baudot tape readers, VT100’s and DECwriters anyone?
20
VT100’s (VT131 etc) were indestructible.
Don’t make them like that any more.
10
In the very early days of PCs when they cost a fortune there was a young engineer demonstrating a VT100 emulator to us. He thought it was great. One of the crustier old guys summarised “Humph, so what you are saying is that you have spent about $6000 to look like a $300 terminal?”
He also famously gave a guy, who loved using a very expensive plotter to do colored bar charts, a very nice box of Derwent coloured pencils. Bit of a character.
10
Yarpos,
Yes,a PDP 8e from Digital Equipment Corporation in Boston. Had a generous 8K of core memory and the ASR33. Bought 1970.
Before that, a Data General Nova with 4 K of memory.
Courses in machine and assembly languages.
Later, around 1977, we bought 2 Australian Nomad N22 aircraft and outfitted them for airborne geophysical survey, using the latest range-range navigation from the RAF, a system named Tactical Air Navigation, TANS. We used 256 channel gamma spectrometers reading once a second, so a lot of data to handle with the slow computers of the time. Our electronic genius programmed all the operating functions in machine language. That was an era when skill mattered, especially as we flew one of the Nomads at 80 metres terrain clearance for many months in a large part of Persia where technical backup was minimal. I borrowed a lab spectrometer from Isfahan Uni, they said they could not make it work. Reason was, the 110 volt power plug was wrongly wired, as I found by non-expert touch.
Geoff S
00
It was a “kill” switch, in front of the operator.
You needed to pull it to shutdown the system (a normal, or emergency) shutdown.
IBM may have used it on other devices.
10
Did this coincide with any solar flares ???
30
Recall in 1 … 2 …. Oh I forgot, they never recall EVs for something as minor as this.
190
As the Western World falls further into a global dictatorship two concerns of electric cars are:
A) Some now, and in the future, all will be self driving and autonomous. This means that there is the theoretical capability for Big Brother to lock a “thought criminal” or other Enemy of the State inside the vehicle and deliver them directly to a re-education, slave labour or death camp.
B) As they will be made in China, the Chicomms will likely install malware into them to either spy on important people and/or have the capability to shut down all EVs in the process of a cyber attack. (The same reason more astute governments ban Chinese products in critical defence applications and infrastructure.)
320
This could be why the Chinese ban Tesla’s form sensitive government areas.
This video is a very good warning about how modern cars could/can be used for espionage.
Why China is Banning Teslas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCzU5BF-110
110
Excellent video. Thanks for posting.
30
EVERY Tesla is equipped with cameras that record everything around it and send the data “upstream” to Tesla. IF you are driving next to a Tesla, smile, you are on camera being monitored.
Tesla uses this as an advantage in training cars to pilot themselves (as they have more data about ALL roads than anyone else…); so a strategic advantage for their (future?) AI training as well as present auto-drive and maps.
Of course, any military with a brain would ban them from anywhere they didn’t want cameras recording / broadcasting…
60
My EV concern is about the shortage of battery minerals on this planet. Even if we employ some super capacitors (as Tesla are about to do), there is not nearly enough lithium to replace even half of to-day’s motor vehicles. Toyota and JCB earth-moving machinery will soon have hydrogen ICEs. My guess is that the future will see many hybrid cars with Hydrogen ICEs charging a capacitor bank backed by Lithium Iron Phospate batteries(less fire prone).
Mean-while, I’ll stick with my 23 year old computerless Toyota Troop-carrier that can be switched to run on a canola oil and methanol mixture once the engine is hot.
30
It seems our roads will become even more dangerous because of these TOXIC EV disasters and sometimes innocent bystanders and other drivers in ICE cars will be injured or killed.
And yet we have very stupid pollies, so called scientists, MSM etc telling the voters that we must buy these lunacies because it will change the weather or climate.
And most left wing loonies, ignorant fools and most of the MSM etc will BELIEVE their barking mad BS and FRAUD and the remaining sensible road users will have to suffer the consequences.
And I drive a modern, very modest ICE car and will never purchase an expensive, dangerous EV, even if they eventually force me off the roads.
210
I had an on line argument yesterday with some climate nutter who told me EV’s will lessen the frequency of bushfires. He assured me that the World was in fact about to ” boil ” and it was all the fault of hydrocarbon fuels. Sadly, there are lots of these brainwashed idiots out there, and they vote.
I took delivery of a V6 petrol powered car two days ago….I’d walk before I would even consider an EV.
360
He may have something. A lot of our fires are started by tourist campfires getting out of hand. If they dont have the capacity to get out of the city and load all their crap, maybe there will be less bushfires.
150
You nailed that yarpos !
50
Careful waht you wish for !……..
10
There was a fire in a backpacker hostel in Sydney yesterday. It was initiated by an explosive failure of an electric bike battery being charged in one of the rooms.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-australia-67003966
The fire spread rapidly through the room but there was enough time to evacuate all residents. Only the second fellow to run out of the room was injured; suffering burns to a leg.
There is growing recognition of the fire risk with lithium batteries but people are still buying stuff with ever bigger batteries. Electric bikes and scooters are flooding into Australia. ALDI has regular special buys of bikes and scooters. Likewise other large retail outlets.
Insurance cost will be a large factor in the demise of battery EVs. Parking an EV in an underground car park cannot be acceptable for much longer. They are already banned from parking in an underground carpark in Kulmbach, Bavaria. Thet followed a fire in an old diesel Golf but the building engineers recognised the inability to extinguish an EV fire would be catastrophic for the building.
Norwegian ferries are transitioning to battery electric while banning transport of BEVs – I can hear Forrest Gump’s famous line.
250
I still maintain and have always maintained, that EV’s are going to be a spectacular failure in the not too distant future, for a host of reasons that were simply ignored or not thought about.
The howling from early adopters and the virtuous will be interesting.
290
The current version of EVs are a spectacular failure. They are behemoths. They only exist through subsidies. There is nothing economic about their existence. No more than resource hungry crap.
I did my graduate thesis on BEVs a long, long time ago. I concluded that battery development needed a 10-fold increase in energy density to make them viable. Batteries are not there yet.
I built a battery bike in 1974 that I got up to 60kph. It was based on Honda 90 running gear and used an aircraft generator operating as a motor. I was gifted 3 off 80Ah 12V starter batteries as the power source. The generator and batteries made it quite heavy. Clumbing ability was not spectacular but the current limit on the electronic controller would start singing on a climb as the current limit came into play.
I cannot yet see any battery technology that makes EVs economic.
My sailing boat has battery electric drive. THis video shows testing stabilising foils under motor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRzr63FkAPM
It uses a 1HP scooter motor and that gets it up to 8kts.
When I stay out on the boat for a few days I inevitably end up flattening the 2kWh battery. Even with 200W of solar panels. I can get a larger 3.5kWh battery for AUD1600 that would almost double the motoring range to 35nm. Or I can buy a 2.6HP 4-stroke outboard for AUD800 and load up with 10 litres of fuel that gives me a range of 250nm.
Electric auxiliary propulsion in sailing boats makes more sense than BEVs but it still does not stack up well against the energy density of fuel.
130
There is a meme in the glider fraternity: Friends don’t let friends buy electric self-launching gliders. A Kiwi pilot died when his caught fire.
50
I’m not as pessimistic as thou, I reckon they will keep a small market share, far to small to give a return on all the billions being invested. Not all the manufacturers and charge station companies will survive.
21
Mr. Glenn: I agree 100%, a spectacular failure indeed. I am calling this moment past peak EV.
00
I never watched Forrest Gump; what famous line was that?
31
” Stupid is as Stupid does”.
70
Shit happens
10
It’s not clear to me why EV batteries are a problem …. Is there a build up of something inflammable inside the battery? is there some short circuit of some sort happening? is there are deterioration in the components that leads to a malfunction ?
30
Lithium batteries are prone to thermal runaway. By comparison, lead/acid batteries do the reverse and give up quite quickly under heavy demand like a short circuit due to plate passivation.
So if a lithium battery develops an internal fault or suffers damage that causes a short circuit it tends toward explosive failure.
Some chemistries are worse than others. The high power density Lipo batteries used in model aircraft need to be handled with care. A battery that weighs less than 1kg can put out 400A at about 20V. So 8kW from something easily carried in your hand.
40
For me the issue is fourfold (other may see it differently)
1. The battery is made up of 1000’s of individual cells, arranged into packs, arranged into a battery. A myriad of connections that all need to be made correctly and not become heat points
2. The basic chemistry supports a self sustaining fire once started
3. The battery housing needs to be designed to a high standard, needs to resist the operating environment and foreseeable accident damage, and is often a structural member of the car.
4. The battery needs a management and temperature control system to keep it within operating parameters for performance and safety
This all needs to come together and continue to operate a survive in real world usage to avoid problems. To me its a tribute to modern design and manufacturing that we dont have more issues than we do.
50
Thanks Rick and Yarpos.
So…….Short cuts in design and production of the batteries can lead to short circuits at individual cell connections. There are thousands of these connections in a battery. Myriad of short circuits leads to overheating of the battery at myriad of connection points.
If this overheating occurs it can quickly take off ….“thermal runaway” ….because of all the connections between the “1000’s of individual cells” arranged in close proximity to each other in packs. And if the safety mechanism – “management and temperature control system” – doesn’t function properly in the faulty batteries it leads to the fire quickly become a “self sustaining fire”.
An “explosive failure” as we have seen in EV batteries in scooters, bikes, cars and buses.
00
I made a prediction a while back, when everything EV was going nicely. It goes like this; The EV business model is irreparably faulty and will collapse within five years. By 2028 EV owners will not even be able to give their cars away.
Almost on a daily basis, new reasons that support my prediction continue to appear. I wonder how many people these vehicles will have to kill before they are banned or people will simply refuse to buy or operate them.
260
They will never be banned too much money at stake , there could possibly be a government enquiry!
60
Hmm ?, you mean like the Covid inquiry ? 🙄
60
EVs will never kill as many as the jab, which is still killing thousands. Why do you think they will have an enquiry into EVs?
20
Mr. Rick: I have predicted this, but gave them 5 more years. My prediction is based on the inevitable EV fire, one of them will be in the wrong place at the wrong time and many people will die. If that happens in the next three or four years, your prediction will be correct. As to the other comments, a gov’t inquiry will only happen after the fire, and after EV sales collapse on their own, because after the fire, nobody will buy what they can’t insure (and vehicle insurance required by law).
10
I drove a rental (ICE) MG SUV for a week or so in Tazzie, earlier this year. It was a truly dreadful thing, so full of bugs and issues that I am amazed they are actually sold to the public.
Many of the problems were connected to the electronics, though the engine/transmission was unbelievably bad, too. But those electronics gremlins seem to be a common problem, specifically with MG but pretty much across the board as more and more of today’s cars come under the control of the ‘onboard computer’. Software glitches and bugs are now the most common reason for complaints about new cars.
So, with all this in mind but specifically because of that week of terror behind the wheel of the MG, I will point blank refuse to take an EV from any hire car company, much less buy one. You’re just asking for trouble.
220
They are cheap , thats about they have going for them.
After their trade games and sabre rattling towards Australia I avoid/minimize Chinese product where its possible to do so.
If only there was only one on board computer things would be pretty simple (back to the 80s?) these days we have many modules all chatting across a network(or networks) around the car. Any odd non-module replacement type problem is going to be fun to nail down.
70
Maybe i missed the “sarc” hint ?
Otherwise you must be dreaming ?..
Any EV is $15-20k more expensive than its ICE equivalent .
..How is that cheap ?
22
He’s talking about MGs or Chinese cars generally. On a like-for-like basis, they are cheaper than Japanese and European brands.
50
Thanks Steve, yes he was
10
The K.I.S.S. principle comes to mind.
“Keep It Simple, Stupid” or I prefer “Keep It Simple and Straightforward”. Hence I drive a low performance 4.2 litre diesel which I can service myself with a minimum of tools.
40
Also reported on YouTube by “GeoffBuysCars” at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm3gvN3oSrM (10:30).
And it seems that it’s not the first time this has happened!
70
The intention is to price us the normal people, out of cars altogether; they know that we don’t want such cars. Chinese-made EVs make that obvious. The Chinese wealthy don’t want them either.
110
Remember yr first scooter (wind in yr hair,) …two wheeler-bike,…skateboard,… car?
Oh the freedom of movement! Surely people will push back against the car thieves?
50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1mVQe2rmb4&ab_channel=UnHerd
Matthew Crawford, Freddie Sayers The War on Motorists.
30
If this was an ICE car there would be an immediate recall of all vehicles, but of course that wont happen. We cant promote EV hesitancy can we? There was a similar situation just recently with a worldwide health scare and ” faulty” products were being mandated- I cant recall the exact products. Maybe someone here will remind me.
190
I seem to remember Toyota had a similar ( runaway car wont stop and crash..) issue a few years ago with Camry’s.
I believe there was a recall for a minor modification .
20
With those stupid push to start systems, there is no direct connection except through the computer, to the gear selector, hand brake , throttle , and ignition stop/start.
20
The 2005 Camry software issue wasn’t that minor. Read the presentation report “Bookout v. Toyota, 2005 Software Analysis”, by Michael Barr, who looked at Toyota’s source code.
20
At least it didn’t run amuck in Kent.
70
That hairy-handed gent?
That’s lately been seen around Mayfair. . .
60
That’s the one Red !!!!!…..lol
50
So it is in an EV but the system that did the kidnapping could be installed in a vehicle powered by any type of fuel?
411
EVs tend to be far more amenable to automation and control and far easier to remotely or autonomously control than ICE vehicles.
Hence they are the vehicle of choice to be forced upon the masses by those Elites who wish to control the lives of their “inferiors”. E.g. they can be remotely disabled at any time or restricted to the confines of “15 minute cities” or indeed deliver “thought criminals” and other “Enemies of the State” to re-education, slave labour or death camps as I mentioned above.
60
“EVs tend to be far more amenable to automation and control and far easier to remotely or autonomously control than ICE vehicles.”
They even brag about it in their ad blurbs.
40
And? My point stands.
010
No its not a point, its a false equivalence
50
Mr. Aye: No, your point is bent over (you think that’s standing). Your question is, could the same system be installed on ICE vehicle? Answer is obvious, one difference apparent to a layman like me is regenerative brakes. You would not have that on an ICE vehicle, would you? I don’t believe an ICE vehicle would ever have a function that would prevent the brake from working. Also a physical parking brake, wonder why EV doesn’t have an emergency brake. Here’s my point- you don’t know enough about this to ask the question. Why don’t you learn about it, and then you can comment?
10
Possibly but seem more prevalent in EVs due to much more electronics.
40
Irrelevant to my point.
010
It hurts to say it but GA is correct, if we compare same age EV’s and ICE.
Comparing an EV to a low tech ICE, the EV would be a bigger risk.
Electronic systems control every aspect of modern cars and a fault or remote over-ride can lock you out regardless of motor type.
Ultimately, the car behaves as the control systems dictate.
I see no reason for EV’s to be more susceptible but if anyone has info to the contrary, please post it.
30
Friend of mine is in emergency services. He says they recently got an instruction to block in damaged EVs at accident scenes with their trucks until they are removed. Apparently a mildly damaged one decided to leave the scene of an accident of its own accord. Drove down the road and into a ditch, happily not cleaning anyone up
170
Another problem is, pulling up in that MG EV is not going to get you the girl.
120
Venice Tragedy: 21 Killed After Tourist Electric Bus Crashes and Burns
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/10/04/venice-tragedy-21-killed-after-tourist-electric-bus-crashes-and-burns/
“plunging 10 meters and catching fire”
60
Who is to say it didn’t go out of control, the driver is dead.
30
Some reports mention that it is electric.
Some, oddly, don’t.
One I read suggested that it fell into/through some ‘power lines’, strung below the autostrada, and thus caught fire [without a peep about the lithium batteries on board].
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Maybe he inadvertantly synched his smart phone to his EV’s computer and the newly permissioned vehicle was running off Google Maps. I’m glad my old rattletrap is in good nick. It’s a dumb vehicle that goes wherever I direct and what’s more, it can’t talk to my smart phone.
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I wonder if he had ‘Gone in 60 seconds’ on his phone.
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Just like the acres of Chinese crumbling real Estate currently sitting vacant, they have 1000s of EVs sitting in open fields waiting to ship out to the world. Don’t buy an EV! Especially if it was made in China! The battery UBD has probably already reached its half-life point! Similarly, solar panels!
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An out of control new E.V.,
From all motoring norms broke free,
A super smart make,
Wouldn’t slow down or brake,
Took the driver on a ‘joy riding’ spree.
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‘Joy riding’ is what you do in real cars.
‘Soy riding’ is what you do in EVs.
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That sort of ‘joy ride’ would require a spare pair of undies…….
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Freedom-oriented people should be buying reliable pre-1990 cars with minimal computerisation and easy DIY repair. Have at least one, even if you don’t use it as a daily driver.
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Can’t wait to hear what pre 1990 “beater” you have. 😁
Hopefully not a Leyland P76!
The elephant in the room however is the fact that pre 1986 vehicles that use leaded petrol are in deep doo-doo, as leaded petrol availability ended in 2002 with LRP ending in 2004.
You can probably still buy additives or spend some money on a valve job so you can use ULP, but surely it’s easier and more practical to just buy a decent car in the first place, one that’s not so old as to be devoid of creature comforts or safety features (and parts availability) but not so new as to be a technical and repair nightmare.
Maybe a Toyota from the early 2000’s?
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And make sure your car has a proper handbrake, not one of those stupid electric things.
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While I have no intentions to purchase an EV car, I do own an e-bike. I bought it 2 years ago, and I have done about 5 000 km on it. I was advised that the battery has a life of about 4 years and after that time would have to be replaced as it wouldn’t take any charge. Initially, I had no problem getting 100 km out of one charge. However, that has dropped to 50 km max now, and it seems to be plummeting. When I go out on a trip longer than 20 – 30 km, I take my charger with me. I have no idea if there is similar diminution of EV batteries, but I suspect it’s the same sort of technology, so likely, yes!!
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Unless you have an expensive European or Japanese “Brand name” ebike ( Bosch, Shimano, etc)Ebike batteries are generally low quality , Chinese made, and not reknown for long life.
They often use “B” or “C” grade cells which are not accepted by reputable battery companies
Some Ebike makers seem to treat batteries as limited life , disposable components, IE, the cash cow for ongoing future income.
Battery packs are repairable and rebuildable if you have the skills.
This is an area where specialist knowledge and experience of testing and repairs, can save an owner a lot of $$$s .
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” the battery has a life of about 4 years ”
and ” about 5 000 km ”
Which is important? I thought the number of times charged was the trigger.
How many times have you charged it?
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It’s not as simple as just keeping track of the number of charges and discharges. A very good explanation of the complexities of battery lifetimes is contained in Jeff Dahn’s TED presentation, “Making Batteries Better”, available on YT.
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Anyone with the time and inclination should be learning as much as possible about computer coding and programming as used in cars.
The deeper and more competent you can become will be very valuable for being independent from manufacturers and authoritarian restrictions.
Even most current cars/ trucks can be immobilised by very minor defects and other issues..
EG,.. it is now understood that the new Range Rovers and Defenders (ice’s) will shut down completely if the drivers door is opened and closed 15-20 times without starting the engine.
..It will then require a flat bed rescur to the nearest maindealer for “specialist” unlocking of the systems. !
And no, 24 hr prime Roadside Assistance will not be able to reset the lock out !
Some “non dealer” specialists already have the skills and know how to bypass some of the MCU programs ( ie engines can be electronically reprogrammed to increase power and improve fuel economy,…exhaust sensors can be “recalibrated” ,..etc and much more.
If you can adsorb those programming skils, it will be like being the “TV repair man” of the ‘70’s “!
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As a former tech and programmer, I can tell you that you’d better allow a few years minimum if you want be serious about this.
The level of complexity is such that you’d need to be an experienced mechanic to start with, and have considerable electronics and networking knowledge, coupled with strong diagnostic skills to have a chance.
The proprietary nature of products like Tesla and others will make it a nightmare.
Learn enough to understand the basics and find a good auto tech.
Like the old joke:
In the old days you could take parts off the Victa to fix your car.
Now all you can do is lift the bonnet to see if the engine is still in there.
…and that’s a 20 year+ old joke…
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yep, the skills, broad knowledge and tools required to actually be good at it is quite impressive
I watch a couple of Youtube channels to try and edumacate my old self on this topic. Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics and South Main Auto.
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Did the same to my new model Mitsubishi Triton. Without too much detail, managed to cause a malfunction of the immobiliser system in a paddock in Western Victoria. The ” pretend” key was unable to restart or even reset the vehicle, but I still had access to the cabin. Call to dealership and eventually one of the techos ( we called them mechanics once) advised just get a 10mm spanner, take off the -ve terminal of the battery, wait 3 minutes, replace and you should be good to go. On second try the engine started as per normal startup.
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I’m assuming you had the entertainment system code available, otherwise the system locks you out. $75 dealer charge later to be issued with a substitute. Ask me how I know………
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I remember that during the New Orleans floods, Tesla remotely re-programmed all the Teslas in that location, extending their range so that the folks could leave the city.
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Hmmm.
…’extending their range’
I wonder if it would be possible that Tesla could reprogramme their cars [or a subset, owned by readers of this blog – as if!] to reduce their range?
If they were asked.
Nicely.
By the FBI or some other completely politically neutral arm of the Democratic Party …
With the usual incentives, I guess; ‘You’ve got a nice business there … shame if anything happened …’
Asking for a friend.
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Had to smirk.
Plug a scan tool into most “overdone” latest cars and you’ll see the same thing.
Especially bad on brands like Mercedes and BMW which are ridiculously complicated to the point the dealers struggle understanding them letalone fix them.
I have a few excellent youtube channels that cover this in depth routinely, although Scotty Kilmer shows it about every episode.
For MG, it’s “The China Syndrome”. 😎 Bad practices and meltdowns.
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My wife has a 2 year old Merc CLE 4 door sedan. Nice car but not terrific on “country roads”. She had the habit of keeping her phone and keys in her handbag and would place that handbag on the rear seat before hopping in to drive. One morning in the garage she did the same process and the car locked itself!! So, there she was with her carkeys and phone locked inside the cabin and unable to open the doors by touching the door etc. Luckily she was still at home and came back inside to ask me what to do. I told her about the spare keys in the laundry, which in her panic she had temporarily forgotten. If the same process has occurred anywhere else, she would have been cooked.
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Apparently Merc’s have some random locking issues, but maybe some item in the typical jumble-jungle in the handbag pushed the lock button on the fob.
Buy a Subaru! 😎
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It seemed to lock when she closed the back door- not when she placed the handbag on the back seat. Either way, lesson learned, she now keeps the keys in her hand 🙂
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Not just MBs. My dad’s old Buick will do it. I had a 08 Ram pickup do it to me 1600 miles from home. Luckily, the local constable in this tiny town got it unlocked. It was 10 degrees below zero, too.
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Ex workmate of mine bought a new thumping great Merc when he got a bit old for sports cars (too much “up” when you are getting out as he put it) During a “routine” software update included in a standard service it got bricked. It spent two weeks in the dealership, with the boys in Stuttgart remoting in, working out what the hell had happened.
A $200k + car and they didn’t even offer him a loan car, I was gobsmacked. Needless to say he is a pretty easy going character.
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Klaus Schwab announces the end of car ownership
“A self driving car will come to your hotel or wherever you are”
By 2030 there will be no more private cars. Highways will become parks”
https://twitter.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1709672177593720883
Hello. Yes. I’d like to order a self-driving MG to go to “The bug burger” in High Street.
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All citizens will be equal, some more equal than most others.
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Of course, the Elites will continue to own ICE vehicles and fly to climate crisis conferences in private jets.
Only the serfs will be devoid of personal transportation.
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“By 2030 there will be no more private cars. Highways will become parks”
yep , in 7 years and 2 months highways will become parks (lord knows what the non private cars drive on)
If you didn’t think he was a loon before there it is. So 1.4 Billion private cars are going to evaporate in 7 years and a fully functional alternative will be in place (or they will just be confiscated)
He is from the same school of maths and thinking at scale as Bowen.
Are they going to have to manage what he says now like Biden?
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It’s ahead been proven that on-demand automated cars leads to more cars on the road. It’s obvious when you think about it: everyone will stop using public transport and take them up to be more direct point to point. The highways will get busier while the bus ways and railways will be ghost towns.
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In a free world, maybe you would be right.
But if your social score is not high enough, in Schwab’s dystopia, you won’t even get to go to the local Bug Burger Bar.
Thinking that CO2 is plant food! Indeed!!
That’ll learn you!
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A British MG would not have done that, they were equipped with Joe Lucas electrics, otherwise known as Prince of Darkness.
sarc.
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The UK has produced some of greatest Engineers the world has known. Then there are Lucas electrics.
Having said that , I own a 40 year old British car and I have hardly had any electrical issues (although I have done preventative maintenance)
Having said that, I am probably stuffed now and can expect a no start or some such nonsense next time out.
Never mention the war.
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I believe the Lucas motto was don’t leave home in the dark. I owned several British motor bikes which luckily had a magneto so they would run. Adjusting the Lucas regulator was not that difficult if the dynamo was in good condition.
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‘A proper gentleman does not travel around after dark’
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This is finally an example where virtue signalling is needed to attract the attention of police.
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Embedded systems are complex. Millions of digital states that can never be fully tested and validated. As it it a Chinese make, who knows what’s lurking deep in the firmware.
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“…heading home from work …. when his new Chinese-made fully electric car began driving itself at 30mph…”
Suddenly, it’s no longer so mysterious
As to the “EMERGENCY POWER OFF” switch: whether your vehicle is traveling at 30mph or at ludicrous speed, you’ll be thankful you have it…
😁
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A two-ton green crap was not meant to be a self-driving car.
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Just don’t buy Chinese tat whatever the brandname on it.
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Sadly, sometimes that’s all that is available anymore.
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